Combi oven for home use

[halb]

My oven is converted from natural gas to be propane fired, as a 3 phase power supply is not available in my area (too far in woods) and the idea of a phase converter is not viable.

How does changing from NG to propane affect the power requirements?? I think you better check that again. And it's almost impossible to get a 3 phase service to a residence even if it's only a few feet away on the street. Power companies won't do it.

EDIT: Or are you saying that you chose a NG fired oven over electric because the electric requires 3 phase, gas requires single phase?

 

[Chojinchef]

The latter. Guess I was not writing clearly enough, apologies.
Chose the gas option over electric due to that 3 phase power requirement. My municipality suggested the power phase converter as that is what my neighbor uses to power his machine shop equipment, but that’s an income producing venture rather than a culinary toy.

 

[halb]

My municipality suggested the power phase converter as that is what my neighbor uses to power his machine shop equipment,

Any phase converter that you could afford produces psudo-3 phase. You can get away with one (really as a last resort) to power 3 phase motors when all you have is single phase power and the alternative of replacing the motor is not practical or possible. But for heating loads controlled by electronics like your rather expensive oven it would not be something I would want to try, especially when an alternative was available.

 

[tony brewin]

Any phase converter that you could afford produces psudo-3 phase. You can get away with one (really as a last resort) to power 3 phase motors when all you have is single phase power and the alternative of replacing the motor is not practical or possible. But for heating loads controlled by electronics like your rather expensive oven it would not be something I would want to try, especially when an alternative was available.

 

[tony brewin]

We are also having our home kitchen re built. I also wanted, indeed have placed order for a Rational SCC XS. That said, it looks and is commercial for a domestic kitchen. Regardless of how “hard core chef” one is, it is home. Anyhow, I have placed order for a SINGLE PHASE Rational XS with the ultra vent plus hood. But, rather than it be in the new kitchen, I’m having it fitted in another small room we have adjacent to main kitchen. Also controllable and moniterable from mobile phone as it will be connected via a LAN port to home WI FI and my mobile phone. We have additional oven built in “The new kitchen” Our old kitchen is taken out next week and new build starts straight away. So, yes I’ve bought the Rational XS. With the hood for it but, I don’t think the “look is right for home” hence I’m having it fitted in a near by room. Also have the Rational stand to put it on.

 

[Dave_Bolder]

I have been using combi ovens during my whole career, I used all the brands you could ever think of, but the only brand that I used and was reliable like nothing else in the market was "Rational Combi Ovens" its German made and one of the best brands in the market today, and they come in many different sizes, in LGP/Natrural Gas or electric, I think the smallest size they do is 6 Tray combi which I think will be ideal for you as it mostly used in small cafes, so it would be just perfect for your home.

It has self cleaning feature that makes the whole experience better for you, I have used this brand for years and I can't recommend any other brand to be honest.

I hope my answer helps. Let me know if you have any questions please.

Thank you

 

[Jojoy]

I keep reading and rereading these posts about installing a Rational oven in a home kitchen. Thank you all for describing your experiences! Could you please give me some further advice?
For the past year, I have been dreaming of installing a professional oven in my home kitchen and am wondering if the Rational SCC 61 would be too big. I also always have been wishing for 2 ovens, so that I could roast meat and/or vegetables, say with onions or garlic, and bake a cake or a dessert at the same time. We are now about to completely renovate our kitchen, and this would be my chance to go for it.
I use my normal Bosch oven nearly everyday for baking, roasting, grilling, more than most home cooks. We are a family of 6, and often have visitors, and for most holidays and special events, I cook for 20-30 people, on average. My Bosch definitely does not perform like it used to, and I spend hours baking in small batches because I don't trust my oven to bake evenly when I need to use more than 1 or 2 racks, depending on what I'm baking. I also often feel that this 60 cm oven is too small, although there are also times when I only bake 1 loaf of bread, or a single tray of bread rolls.
I have been thinking of the Rational XS, but I wonder if I could roast 2 turkeys or 2 geese at a time in the XS oven? A couple of years ago, I managed 2 turkeys by using my neighbour's oven, as well as my own. But that isn't always an option for me, and we no longer live near those friends.
Considering my needs and desires, does it sound reasonable to install 2 ovens -- a Rational XS and a 90 cm domestic oven, such as an Ilve or Miele?
Or would it make more sense to have just a Rational 61? Or Rational 61 and domestic 60 cm oven?
Any thoughts or advice on these matters would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[Cosmozz]

Here is a photo from yesterday morning, just started to prepare a number of small veggie dishes: View attachment 65006
Asparagus in the oven, artichokes and glazed onions on the stove, fennel in the sous-vide bath

We had to struggle a little to fit everything in, placing the combi oven next to the fridge isn't optimal but works. At least we got the height rigth - it sits 120cm above the floor so the lowest grid is 141cm and the highest 164cm which works fine for adults. The general plan is (from left to right): Cupboard for recycling and packging materials. 75cm fridge/freezer (we a larger freezer i another room as well). Combi oven (yes, you need the hood). A micro and above it some lighter stuff like dehydrator and sallad spinner. The Pacojet (sadly stowed away in the corner, we haven't decided where to place it yet). By the window a double sink with a Quooker boiling water tap (great for a lot of stuff, from making tea to blanching vegetables). Under the work area right of the sinks are two small (45cm) dishwashers. That as worked out very well, despite the fact that a narrow dishwasher is a bit less efficient than a regular one. Almost everything in the kitchen except knifes and cutting boards is dishwasher proof so we run everything else there n the express programme. Then there is an induction stove and finally a third sink which (as the narrower of the two sinks by the window is adapted to hold GN trays and perforated containers for the oven).
I hoped to have some space in the far corner to fit a chiller for GN 2/3 trays but that just wasn't doable. Also, the floor tiling is a bit too dark and we are moving the kitchen island back and forth to find the right place.

Good luck with your kitchen endeavor!

Hello Gastrophysics,

I'm very very very interested in installing a rational xs in my kitchen but i have limited space for it.
My local dealer doesn't have the wall mount on stock so I don't know the full depth of the oven.

Can you help me out with full depth in cm/inches from the wall to the front of the handle?
Really trying to squeeze this into my kitchen.
I would be forever grateful

 

[halb]

https://www.rational-online.com/med.../en_sg_1/en_us_spec_sheets/SCC_Model_XS_E.pdf

https://www.rational-online.com/en_...?category=6721&locale=en_us&lastSelectionBox=

They don't give dimensions for it so I would give them a call and ask. Looks like maybe between an inch and two.
RATIONAL USA Inc.1701 Golf Road, Suite C-120, Commercium
Rolling Meadows, IL 60008
888-320-7274

 

[Gastrophysics]

Hello Gastrophysics,

I'm very very very interested in installing a rational xs in my kitchen but i have limited space for it.
My local dealer doesn't have the wall mount on stock so I don't know the full depth of the oven.

Can you help me out with full depth in cm/inches from the wall to the front of the handle?
Really trying to squeeze this into my kitchen.
I would be forever grateful

Just checked - from the wall to the tip of the handle adds upp to 71 cm. The handle is 7 cm deep so 64 cm from the wall to the oven front.

Its a lot, the wall mount tubing is 4 cm thick and there is an additional 4.5 cm air between the mount and the oven. But all that is necessary to make room for the pipe connections. I don't think there is much flexibility in how the oven is placed on the mount.

Good luck!

 

[Cosmozz]

Just checked - from the wall to the tip of the handle adds upp to 71 cm. The handle is 7 cm deep so 64 cm from the wall to the oven front.

Its a lot, the wall mount tubing is 4 cm thick and there is an additional 4.5 cm air between the mount and the oven. But all that is necessary to make room for the pipe connections. I don't think there is much flexibility in how the oven is placed on the mount.

Good luck!

Thank you for the quick response.
I CAN DO IT!! I have 75 cm. Thank you thank you thank you! (I have 75 cm to the outer edge of a door)
I will arrange water connection and waste through the wall.
Again thank you for assisting me with this.

 

[eug99]

i want to thank everyone on this thread. It gave us heaps of inspiration and knowledge that installing a rational combi oven in a residential home would be a possibility.

That being said, it still has taken us 3 years to finally locate an installer in Southern California that is able to install , certify the installation & provide on-going support for the oven.

Once we made contact ; the entire process took approximately 45 days from site survey to finalizing an order to shipment and install.


Anecdotally - according to Rational USA , only 2 in the over 44K installs last year were in a residential setting. That being said, Rational is aware that there is increased interest to have combi ovens be installed in residential environments & they could be working on an offering.

We compared Miele , Gagganeau as an alternative to a Rational XS. Miele comes in around > USD $5-6K for the equipment and rather small 24" cavity. We did also come across a Dacor range that was > $15K but had a combi steam oven as the secondary smaller oven. All makes would would require pulling a new 240V , 50 - 70 AMP circuit ; water inlet @ a specific PSI & drainage. Given the fact the electrical , plumbing work would be relatively the same ; we chose to go with a Rational 61 for better capacity. Although the XS is a phenomenal footprint, it uses GN 2/3 pans which were quite small. No issues for portioned proteins but you would have a hard time fitting in a sizable turkey into the XS.

We went with an UltraVent Plus (cooking proteins) , Rational icombiPro 61 (240V / Single Phase Power / 70 Amp circuit) & a Rational cart to store the various pans. The entire setup fits in a standard bottom mount refrigerator well . We had a bertazonni 36" fridge / freezer column in the space and the entire rational setup fits snugly in the cavity.

Will update the post as we crank out a few meals with the oven. And yes the Ultravent can be a bit noisy to operate. But a small inconvenience for everything else that the oven is able to do . I strongly recommend a rational for anyone thinking about a combi steam oven. Good Luck !

 

[longpvo]

Does anyone know if the XS can fit half sheet pan (13x18”)? I have checked all of the literatures and it seems that the newer iCombi Pro XS Datasheet says it can load 4x half sheet pans while the older SCC XS Datasheet doesn’t. Even though both XS models from North America (US/CA) share the same hinging rack.



(Rational 60.74.331 7 Shelf Hinging Rack)

Hinging Rack, (7) racks, offset levels, maximum load (4) half sheet pans, (4) 1-1/2" deep 2/3 GN or (3) 2-1/2" deep 2/3 GN pans, for SCC/CMP XS (Note: this is the standard hinging rack that is included with the XS models).

All other markets use the 11 Shelf Hinging Rack instead (Rational 60.73.724)

 

[eug99]

Unfortunately Not. as you mentioned in the post above ; The XS will only hold GN 2/3 pans (13.75 length x 12.75 inches width)
The Rational ovens all utilize the Hotel Pan Gastronorm Sizes as opposed to residential home standards of 1/2 size or Full sheet trays. For comparison The 2/3 pan is slightly larger than a pan that would fit into one of the countertop wolf , breville ovens.

As the cavity of the oven have rails ; you will need to make sure the pans are accurate to fit on the rails.

We found the 2/3 pans too small to hold full size proteins ( i.e a full turkey bird ) thus ,we opted for the Rational 61. Still the XS is still larger than the 24" Miele XXL Steam Oven. Good luck

 

[longpvo]

I have finally fitted an SCC XS in single phase in our residence (we have private booking dinner function).

Didn’t take much work than a second person to do the lifting. Next up is a condensation hood that is connected to outdoor exhaust blower fan. This way it’s significantly quieter than running the UltraVent indoor.

What I have discovered is as mentioned in previous query, the XS can fit half sheet pans (18x13 in) easily. I designed and got a local exhaust hood shop to fabricated a new hinging rack that can accomodate 6 half sheet pans. Mind you the XS cavity isn’t ideal for those average dutch oven braises or bigger than 9” frying pan recipes.





I can possibly arrange a group order for such rack support if enough interest.