Ciopinno

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Joined Jul 31, 2000
I noticed that a new member was interested in "perfecting" there Cioppino recipe. What do you say we help him out.
I will post mine later if i have time. Anyone else?
cc
 
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So this is what I do:
For fish:
Fresh finfish.I use salmon or halibut because its usually the freshest I can get.
Fresh shucked oysters
Fresh scallops
Frozen Shrimp I usually get Mexican marks.
In-shell clams
In-shell mussels
Sadly, my availability for good really fresh fish is limited, even though I have wholesalers. THEIR idea of fresh and MY idea of fresh are very different......
I make a base of onions, tomatoes, white wine, fresh garlic, basil,a pinch of Herb de' Provence, saffron, let that cook for an hour or two.
For the fish, I start a saute pan with olive oil, then put in my fin fish, and in-shells. I sear the fin fish, add my shelled crustateans and mollusks, a ladle of base, a little clam juice and put on a tight fitting lid till the shells pop open. I serve it in shallow wide bowls so that the fish is nicely presented. Sometimes fresh Oregon bayshrimp are available and I throw those in at the last moment, so they just get hot. Top with chopped fresh parsley and scallions. I serve this as a lunch special frequently.
 
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I am very much intersted in this recipe Cape Chef, especially with ingredients from the east coast ;)

I would add to Peachcreek's recipe clams.
But I haven't understood what makes a fish soup ciopinno.

The herbs maybe ??

:confused:
 

pete

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When I was taught to make Ciopinno I was taught that it included fennel. I have seen many chefs on the East Coast do this also, but recently, I have come across "traditional" recipes on food history websites, that do not include fennel. Does anyone know which way is correct?
 
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Thanks for the help in trying to perfect my Ciopinno, but I have talked with several different people and everyone makes it different!! Some people use fennel and Saffron, wouldn't that be more of a bouillabaisse? They use white wine or red wine, I use both at different stages. Some use can diced tomatoes, I make a concasse( much better) I would love to use fresh in shells, can't always do it though. Availability hinders that. I would have to drive 45 mins to get fresh items. I usually can get vac-packed Tuna, surprisingly very,very nice. I can always get fresh Salmon, and the local yocal supermarket actually had some nice Tiger Shrimp. I always sear the fish first, I did not do it the very first time I made and there is a huge difference:lips:
 
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I'm curious, is there really any difference between boullabaise and cioppino other than the name? Can one just be French and the other Italian? And What about Pot-au-Feu? Isn't that made the same way too?
Fresh Fennel!!! Always Fennel when I make it. I think it really makes the seafood flavors sing!
 
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a good tomato sauce there are no onions.or anything else present in the actual sauce at the end you may need to push thru a sieve. fennel is the flavor that shoud be present and plenty of it,,,,,,,,now for the fish usually clam mussel shrimp squid if you have other fish left over by all means use it. there is no saffron in it . no olives and no rice i recently had a very bad chippino in which all those things were there and it was awful.
 
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Joined Jan 11, 2002
....The Italian regional name "Ciuppin"?
Here in the Italian Riviera this name indicates a fish soup which is completely different from the other Italian fish soups since it's creamy (as a matter of fact it's a sort of bisque). It's obviously made of Mediterranean fish and seafood and traditionally served with small croutons and a garlic sauce. Since it's typical of the western part of Liguria it could be related to a similar Cote D'Azur recipe. According to the posts I read here, Ciopinno doesn't seem the same thing.
Any input?

Pongi
 
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Ciuppin is in fact from "Liquira" Not fron San Francisco.

There are similarities between the two, But Ciuppin is cooked quite a bit longer to break down the fish (This is were you get the creamyness you descibe,Not from cream) also, Like Bouilibase it have rustic bread slices in the bowl as you add your Zuppa
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As far as I know, according to the Italian recipe fish isn't cooked so long, but minced after cooking with a food processor or, better, sieved (don't know if this is the correct word for the Italian "passare al setaccio":confused: ). There is no cream in it, since cream is not used in the true Ligurian recipes...

Pongi
 
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Italian?
I have heard that it's Portuguese...
I think that the answer to the question of what makes a soup cioppino will be stay a secret like Atlantis...:rolleyes:

Ok this is neurotic, I know, but what makes a fish soup boullabesse is the sea water...Legends say that is made by sea water :)
 
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I learned to make bouillabaisse from a crazy chef from marseilles.

This is my favorite of the mediterranean fish stews, Even more then kakavia from greece or suquet from Spain,

The earliest recipe I could find in one of my books was from 1790 and written by jourdin le cointe in his book La Cuisine de sante
This recipe talked about the fisherman wives boiling the catch of the day in a large couldren, At this time it was called "Matellotte du Poisson, many of the ingredients from the 20th century were used for flavor,But Olive oil was an option.

The Name "bouillibase as used to describe what we now know as bouilibasse was first written in 1830 in the book Le Cuisinier Durand This recipe called for mare expensive items like spiny lobster and sea bream
Anyway, Thanks my quick lesson for today
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I'm reading "West Coast cook book" by Helen Brown.....low and behold there is a recipe for Cioppino.....but my two cents, fennel and orange with tomato and white wine....that's what I remember differentiates it from others.

OK Helen's version: fish, shrimp, crab, clams, garlic onions, green onions, green pepper, tomatoes, red wine, parsley, oregano and basil.....note; "One story says that SF fishermen did not introduce cioppiono to Cal., but that an Italian named Bazzuro, who ran a restaurant on a boat anchored off Fisherman's Wharf, is responible. What's more, it was supposed to have been an old recipe, well known n Italy. This back in the 1850's. I refuse to believe it!"

So there's Helen's Cioppino.....for those that are unfamiliar with her, she was a great friend and collaborator with James Beard and wrote about the West Coast.
 
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Shroom,
I understand your point.
But, Cioppino did start in italy and was adopted by italian fisherman of San Fran. Then like anything else,it was groomed to suit the region.
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Actually Ciuppin is an old, traditional Italian recipe and there's no doubt that it must have been well known in Liguria before 1850! More, the name Bazzurro (not Bazzuro) is a typical Ligurian family name and the Helen's story, if not true, seem at least likely.
I'm collecting all the Italian Ciuppin recipes I got...a (short:)) overview is coming!

Pongi
 
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Cioppino is DEFINATELY from San Francisco. I do not doubt for a second its italian, Ligurian heritage any more than you can doubt North Beach, SF is a thriving Italian-American community--hmmm, and not too far from the wharf either.

It is important to give proper creedence to cioppino as San Franciscan, and more importantly as American for at least a couple of reasons:

1. America is a fairly new country, cuisine takes a long time to evolve, the sooner we realize what is American cuisine, the sooner we will have our cuisine and can honor those that helped shape it (in this case most certainly Italians).

2. We must be ever critical, even vigilant about falling prey to such logical fallacies as 'fallacy of origin'. for example:

"Ciuppin is a fish stew of Italy, frequently cooked in the region of Liguria. Therefore, cioppino, an American fish stew originating in North Beah SF MUST BE from Italy." As a matter of fact, it WAS Italians who cooked the first cioppino, though it did not originate in Italy, but San Francisco, USA.

For the record: Cioppino is a San Franciscan fish stew.



flash
 
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Flash, I appreciate your passion to all things American.

What I said is that "Cioppino" Which took it's name from "Ciuppin"
was from Italy....I also said when it reached the shores of san Fran It became it's own dish, using seafoods and herbs and spices indiginece to the weat coast waters. For the record Flash, I want to make this very very clear. I am an American, I cook American..But, I respect where my fundimentil skilles in cooking came from. Most of my technique can be traced to the cooks and chefs of europe,as I would guess your's are as well. I am not at all concerened with feeling like I am a trator or something.
have a nice day
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Ok as all the famous recipes it seems that there is not a single version of the recipe.
And how can this possible for a sea soup? I mean you can not be certain on what you are going to bring out of the sea...

I think the diference is in the cooking procedure but I am not going to argue about that with chefs.
IF I observed well in cioppino recipes you braise the fish first something that you do not do in boullabaise or in kakavia .

In Mani we make a Red fish soup also and we call it RED FISH SOUP . We don't call it kakavia or anything else.Although we are the only ones that braise the fish. Of course we do!!! What else are we going to do with the tones of olive oil????!!!

I will call it from now on Peachcreek's soup that originates from Atlantis and mind the one who dares to observe that you do not use Peaches in a fish soup...


:cool:
 
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