Burger Joint

[furqi]

Thanks guys! Great info I will keep you all updated with pics and what not. How do you gyus feel about used equipments like grill and fryer? What do you guys think is the best temp for the grill to be at to cook the patty? and do you think holding cabinets are a good idea for patties ?

 

[petemccracken]

... and do you think holding cabinets are a good idea for patties ?

IMHO, NO!

 

[boar_d_laze]

How do you guys feel about used equipments like grill and fryer?

Great if it works.

What do you guys think is the best temp for the grill to be at to cook the patty?

Depends if it's a char grill or a flat top.  I like char grills hotter.  The actual ideal temperatures will depend on what kind of beef and how thick your patties are.  You're going to have to do some experimenting.  You'll probably like a char-grill at around 400F and a flat top at around 350F.  Ish. 

And do you think holding cabinets are a good idea for patties ?

Not if you have a soul.

BDL

 

[furqi]

And do you think holding cabinets are a good idea for patties ?

Not if you have a soul.

BDL

LOL! For some of you who have asked the location is in Toronto, Canada and I am thinking of using a Ground Chuck of 80/20. I would only sell well done burgers.
 

 

[chefedb]

Again. stick to numbers and paperwork  !!!!

 

[leeniek]

A long time ago there was a restaurant near Bloor and Bathurst in TO called Foodworks on Bloor.  They were basically a burger joint, but it was on the upscale side.  This was back before anyone was concerned about ecoli in undercooked ground meat and you could actually order a medium rare burger.  Nowadays burgers have to be well cooked and if anyone is serving less than well cooked burgers I suspect the health inspector will have alot to say about that. 

Where are you planning to open in Toronto? 

 

[chefbillyb]

LOL! For some of you who have asked the location is in Toronto, Canada and I am thinking of using a Ground Chuck of 80/20. I would only sell well done burgers.
 

If your restaurant is serving "Only well done burgers" I'll order mine Done well instead. Listen to Ed, he will save you 100K the first year alone...........ChefBillyB

 

[durangojo]

Again. stick to numbers and paperwork  !!!!

DITTO, DITTO, DITTO...don't do it bro...you are not ready.....maybe go work for someone who is doing this before you jump into that frypan....

joey

 

[boar_d_laze]

Furqi,

Can you do me a favor and describe your ideal of the hamburger stand you'd like to open? 

Limit yourself to food, service and clientele.  Don't worry about volume or any of the money aspects for now.

BDL

 

[chefedb]

If he only sells well done burgers , he will sell about 100 before he closes... FOR GOOD

 

[furqi]

Where are you planning to open in Toronto? 

I've not finalised a location as of yet will keep you posted. Thanks alot for the INFO!! /img/vbsmilies/smilies//smile.gif


 

Furqi,

Can you do me a favor and describe your ideal of the hamburger stand you'd like to open? 

Limit yourself to food, service and clientele.  Don't worry about volume or any of the money aspects for now.

BDL

Well BDL my Ideal hamburger stand would obviously be one with a lot of customers haha but besides the jokes like you said I will limit myself to food,service and clientelle so that customers would have my burger joint on their top burger places to go. Thanks alot for the info.


 

If he only sells well done burgers , he will sell about 100 before he closes... FOR GOOD

Thanks Bro! Thats exactly the motivation I am looking for /img/vbsmilies/smilies//smile.gif
 

 

[boar_d_laze]

Furqi,

You don't know how to make a hamburger yet, but that's not such a big deal.  It doesn't take long to learn to make one. 

What bothers me is that you don't seem to have a clear idea of what kind of hamburgers you want to make.  Nor do you seem to have any idea of who will buy it.  

Most people who succeed in the food business have a clear vision of what they want to make and who the think will buy it.  I'm not telling you that you need to want to make the same sort of hamburger I'd want to; but that you need to really nail that down first before thinking of opening a restaurant/stand. 

The product must always the first part of a business plan; and so far you don't have one. 

I could tell you what kind of hamburgers I'd like to sell, how to cook them, and even give you some decent advice on how to market them -- but my idea of exceptional quality first last and always combined with fanatical attention to detail, might not be your particular vision. 

You've got to narrow down what you want to cook, and figure out who will buy it, before shopping around for a lease and putting together equipment lists. 

For instance, I'd like to:  Grind my own meat daily from Choice chuck, round and bottom sirloin - 80/20; hand form 4 and 6 oz patties; single or double burgers; single or double patty melts; choice of four cheeses; chili; regular or grilled onions; ketchup, mayo, mustard, hot mustard, barbeque sauce, garlic aioli, and chipotle aiolis, demi-glace and red-wine reduction; garnishes would be the usual, plus grilled Anaheim chilis, bacon, and avocado; wheat or white buns with sesame, and sourdough rye (for the patty melts), all custom baked for the stand; splash the burgers with a mix of red wine and worcestershire and season with "basic California rub" before cooking on a char-grill.  Sell them as ground beef steak instead of hamburger so that I could serve medium rare.  "Belgian" style twice fried pommes frite.  Locate to attract "Yuppies."  So on and so forth, ad nauseum.  You get the picture. 

Now I'm not saying those are the burgers you should want to cook.  Rather, that developing a clear idea is your job one.  You seem to already have specific plans for each dollar of your first million in profit, and don't even know what kind of buns you want.  If ever a cart was before the horse...   

I certainly wouldn't invest a nickel in the product you've shown me, and my advice is you shouldn't either.  Come back with a specific description of the hamburgers you'd like to sell -- and we'll talk.

BDL

 

[petemccracken]

Following on BDL's comments:

Even BEFORE trying to decide on "what kind of burgers", I would be:

• Identifying the competition, i.e. listing EVERY place that sells hamburgers.
• Analyzing each menu for choices, styles, and differences
• Analyzing each menu for pricing
• Trying to figure out where they buy food and what quality
• Determining the demographics of their customer base as well as what they order
• Determine the distribution of rare, medium-rare, medium, medium-well, and well done hamburger orders (my "off the cuff" guess?, less than 10% and probably closer to less than 5% of the orders will be for "well done"!)
• Find out how far customers travel to get their hamburger/lunch, my "guess"? Less than three miles
• Get an estimate of the number of tickets and average value per ticket per hour, per day, per day part, per day of week, per week, etc.
• Count the number of employees in each competitor's location

Once you have that information, you might be able to:

• Define the market for hamburgers in general as well as price-point differentials
• Define the demand for fast food hamburgers, average cook-to-order hamburgers, upscale cook-to-order hamburgers, and "gourmet hamburgers", which should give you a clue as to where there might be an opening in the market place.
• Define what the average customer wants/looks for with regards to sides/condiments/choices/ambiance/etc.

If you cannot, do not want to, or do not know how to do the above, take Ed's advice, stick to the numbers and find another endeavor.

I'll let you in on a closely guarded secret in the restaurant business to making a million dollars...start with four million and someone "good with numbers"!

 

[durangojo]

you know furqi,

 my first impression when i read your post was, oh please do not do this! you might be enthusiastic, but you are just not ready...i still stand behind that...pleeease, for now at least..unless you inherited the truck, location, employees and a boat load of money, .... i do not mean to be meanspirited here... BUT...DO NOT QUIT YOUR DAY JOB!!!!...we are your friends here, trust me....trust them!

joey

if you are really insistent on this, why does it have to be hamburgers?...perhaps gourmet hot dogs where you don't have to 'touch' the food so much,is cheaper to buy and easier to store?you don't need as much equipment as well....... just a thought

is this a truck, stand/kiosk or building that people can dine in if they choose to?

 

[brisket]

Why would selling only well done burgers be bad?  Where I live you can't get anything but within a few hours drive...

 

[chefedb]

I am not trying to be mean, I am only trying to save you $. Some people get blinded by motivation. Everyone thinks the restaurant bus is showbiz. Please believe me it is not. It is work, work, work piled on hours hours and more hours..Divide the hours you will put in by the $ you net. Lucky if it's $10.00 an hour, thats after all the $ you invest at 0 interest and return. The landlord makes $ right away from you , as does the elec. and gas co. The government gets their taxes right away. The only poor shlump who doesn't is you, and it's your $ up front. Think about what you are doing!!!!

 

[kuan]

Forget burgers for a moment.  Imagine you are trying to make a $7 sale.  Actually you're trying to make a hundred of them every day.  Then imagine there are a hundred people out there trying to make a hundred $7 sales every day.  Put all of you in a room with 10,000 potential customers.  What makes you different?

That's what the restaurant industry feels like.

And no, a 36" grill is way too small.

 

[chefedb]

Kuan is correct about grills. I have a 30 inch grill, and it is in my house not commercial.

 

[petemccracken]

Grill or griddle?

 

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by Brisket  

Why would selling only well done burgers be bad?  Where I live you can't get anything but within a few hours drive...

It's neither good nor bad.  It does define your niche, though.  If what you want to do is make the  best possible hamburger -- in terms of taste, texture and juice -- "well done" is a hurdle which cannot be jumped. 

Cooking ground meat at the same temperature and donness ranges as solid meat requires fresh meat sourced from a good supplier, grinding no less than once a day, and observing really first-class food handling protocols.  Just as a really nice texture requires freshly ground meat that's never been pressed down and forming the patties by hand.  These are expensive, time consuming techniques in service of a particular vision.  They are not for everyone.  

If your vision of the hamburger you want to sell (or eat) is different, "well done" might not be a problem.  I don't apologize for enjoying the well done burgers from several fast food chains; and neither do I apologize for not making mine their way.  That's MY vision, no reason it should be yours. 

What's important, and what furqi seems to lack is a clue as to what food he wants to make and whom he wants to eat it.

I disagree with Pete -- but only a little.  It's better to start with an idea of what you want to cook and only then start analyzing the market and compromising on the basis of what's feasible or wise.  It doesn't really matter which one you do first. It's sure as heck a good idea to do both before spending a nickel though.

Otherwise, I'm totally in line with Durangojo, Pete, Ed and everyone else who thinks furqi is cruisin' for bruisin' the way he's going now.   

BDL