Browned or unbrowned chicken stock?

5
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Joined Sep 17, 2018
Does anyone have tips for a chicken stock, especially whether to brown or not. I used a chicken back, browned, and simmered for 24 hours a la prudhomme, maybe that was just too long of a tike to simmer. For some reason an excellent chicken stock is proving more challengijg than a beef stock. Alsox to roast or not roast the vegetables? Thank you.
 
5
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Joined Sep 17, 2018
24 hours is overkill with chicken. But what are you trying to do with the stock? White vs brown stock is about ultimate function, not right and wrong.
Ok yeah i think the flavor was good at 8 hours, now not so much. This will be a stock for soups, but i might makeba demiglace out of it. I feel like unbrowned would be better for soupsx whereas brown would be better for demiglace
 
2,403
410
Joined Oct 9, 2008
Yes: white stock normally works best for soup, brown for sauces like demi-glâce. In my experience, a white chicken stock is done in 2 hours, brown about 4. 8 only makes sense with red meat bones. I would not cook vegetables in the stock for more than 2 hours at most: they just turn into unidentifiable cloudy sludge.
 
5
0
Joined Sep 17, 2018
Yes: white stock normally works best for soup, brown for sauces like demi-glâce. In my experience, a white chicken stock is done in 2 hours, brown about 4. 8 only makes sense with red meat bones. I would not cook vegetables in the stock for more than 2 hours at most: they just turn into unidentifiable cloudy sludge.
Thanks for the info, ill keep those times in mind
 
5
0
Joined Sep 17, 2018
Yes: white stock normally works best for soup, brown for sauces like demi-glâce. In my experience, a white chicken stock is done in 2 hours, brown about 4. 8 only makes sense with red meat bones. I would not cook vegetables in the stock for more than 2 hours at most: they just turn into unidentifiable cloudy sludge.
What do you think about roasting the vegetables for the stock? Seriouseats claimed unroasted was best for a clear chicken stock.
 
2,403
410
Joined Oct 9, 2008
What do you think about roasting the vegetables for the stock? Seriouseats claimed unroasted was best for a clear chicken stock.
The longer the vegetables cook, the more they'll tend to break down into sludge that can cloud stock. The veggies should be giving flavor, and to some degree color. Nothing else.

Flavor: how long does it take to get the flavors out of onion, carrot, celery, etc.? Not long! And what happens if you cook them for a really long time? The flavors go dull and unrecognizable.

Color: carrot gives a gold color, burnt onion a brown color, roasted tomato a different brown. All three in a brown stock will give a beautiful color.

If you want perfection, I suggest that you start with less than half your veggies, and no fresh herbs or leaves. With half an hour until the total time is up, add the remaining veg. When time is up, shut off the heat, gently add fresh herbs, and leave to infuse for fifteen minutes or so. Strain.
 
4,618
1,131
Joined Nov 5, 2007
Roasting the onions is a nice touch, getting a bit of color and carmelization of the sugars going on. I have done chicken stock where the bones steep for 20 - 30 hours, then the veggies are put in for a couple of hours. 2 - 4 hour steep of the bones before adding the veggies is just as good. Chicken and duck feet really add to the body of the stock, if you can easily find them.

Lighter color works well with egg drop soup, veggie risottos, darker color for hot and sour soup, gravy with roast poultry. In general, the color is about appearance, not a large difference in flavor.

mjb.
 
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Joined Oct 19, 2018
referring to colours: if you want your stock just golden - ad burned onion to it. I burn whole onion (not even peeled) right on a gas burner and add it to the cold water together with meat (usually half chicken or just a carcass) and vegetables. In Poland we use variety of vegetables we call "wloszczyzna" (vloshcheezna for Italy - Wlochy in Polish)but the base is carrots, parsley (but roots), celery (root), a vedge of cabbage, white part of leek. Of course, there are home to home differences. plus we add bouquet garni (parsley leaves, celery leaves, lovage leaves, some green leek). I simmer my stock for 3 to 4 hours.
 
1,832
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Joined Aug 15, 2003
I often find that a brown chicken stock when reduced is quite bitter, since you have to reduce the stock down so much in order to take it to sauce consistency.

If I want to add roasted flavors to my sauce, I will just use meat/trim/bones from whatever I'm making a sauce for and fortify that by roasting. So, for example, if I want to make a lamb sauce I'll take all the scraps from butchering lamb (and bones if I have them) and roast those, deglaze with wine, etc, then add the stock and aromatics and reduce to glaze.

I don't make veal stock very often since it is pretty cost prohibitive. I almost always make a white veal stock as well, but I add tomato which gives it a brown color when it reduces.

I'd say anything more than 6 hours for chicken stock is overkill. I do 8 to 10 for veal, then make a remy obvi (gotta get all your money out of those bones lol).

Earlier in my career I worked in a place where we did a veal stock in a steam kettle for like 48 hours. I dunno, but the stock was always really bitter, flabby and not pleasant. Sauces were thin. Something wasn't right. Dunno if cooking too long was an issue, or what.
 
4,618
1,131
Joined Nov 5, 2007
Earlier I mentioned that I didn't find much difference in the flavor of a dark vs. light stock. I take that back.

20181022_183233.jpg

This stock is darker, and it got cloudy. It is liquid chicken, VERY tasty.

It was a double steeped batch.

20181011_162442.jpg 20181011_211738.jpg

First I went to the Asian market and got some duck feet and what they call a "stewing hen" - small, mostly skin and bones, which is what you want for stock. They went into a sous vide cooker, steeped about 30 hours at 190F. About 25 hours into it I added the onion, carrots, celery, bay leaf, black peppercorns. Strained it into the big stockpot. I put a nice, meaty 4 pound fryer in, added water to cover it well. Poached the chicken for about an hour or so, pulled it out, picked off the meat and put the carcass back in the stock. Cut an onion in half, roasted it and a few carrots in a hot, 400F oven for about 12 - 15 minutes. Put the veggies and a few other bits in the pot, steeped for several hours.

The net result is the stock you see in the cup. Some of it is destined to be used in a dish for this month's challenge, some went into a chicken tomatillo soup.

20181021_013501.jpg

Good stuff!

mjb.
 

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