Bone broth

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Let's not put down the hipsters. And aryuveda is an ancient practice of medicine that believes food is medicine. Let's not knock it.
 
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When I mentioned consomme I muddied the water rather than clarify the issue.  Consomme is broth or soup in French.  I learned all my French in the kitchen so it is what it is.  I have also researched this in my textbooks.  In English there are "five basic types of stock: basic or simple stock, white stock, brown stock, shellfish stock, and fumet."  This is from Culinary Fundamentals, by The American Culinary Federation.   Also from the same source, "Broths are essentially the same as stocks except they are made with more meat than bones."  Bone broth is not a basic culinary preparation or term.  Bone broth as I found on the internet, appears to be a recipe from health and wellness advocates.  The internet is not very well vetted or pear reviewed.

Koukouvagia

"I make chicken stock weekly using a whole chicken. Either a roasted chicken carcass or a whole raw chicken that I poach for an hour, then remove all the meat and place the carcass back in the stockpot to continue cooking. Is this different than bone broth?"

To answer the original question you are making a chicken broth not a stock speaking in culinary fundamentalist terms.  The broth can be seasoned and makes a very nice soup.  I use your method quite often.  This will give you the health benefits you are seeking.

Foodpump you are right about the salt. 
 
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I would love to be able to debone a whole chicken a la Pepin but last time I tried to even break down a chicken I freaked out and gave up. I really want to learn how to do this but I know if I have what it takes.
 
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@foodpump  

a stock can NOT be made without bones
O.K., why not?

Look, lets go back to pre-1980's, before the vacuum packing machine changed the meat industry and, to a great extent, the restaurant industry.  Most better quality places would bring in halves or quarters of beef, pork, veal, lamb, etc.  You get the bones with the meat whether you want them or not, and like it or not, you also paid for them.  Might as well extract some flavour from them before tossing them out, right?  It is for this reason that bones are used for most stocks, its just economics.

I doubt if you will find anyone to agree that bones contribute more flavor than meat.  True, you can roast bones and get surface caramelization, and this provides more flavor, but a beef shank bone or a rib bone by itself doesn't contribute that much.  A turkey or chicken neck will give a lot of flavor, but it's the little bits of meat trapped between the bones that  does this, same with wings and backs.  The connective tissue and  meat scraps provide most of the flavor in a good stock.

You make a good point about gelatin.  But there are easier and faster ways of extracting natural gelatin:  Wing tips and trotters.  A ton of cartilage in those items, and most Chefs know this, and it isn't un-common to find split and blanched pigs trotters or calve's feet simmering in a rich stock.  Knuckle joints and tails come in second, but trotters/feet are dirt cheap and provide the most natural gelatin.  Bones do provide some gelatin--eventually, but you have to simmer for long times, and in most kitchens stove space--or kettle space is very valuable, and it doesn't make sense to simmer for long times if you can't sell that item at a decent cost. And long simmering times also mean a long simmered flavor, the stock would have to be refreshed with fresh ingredients at some point.  Again, it's just kitchen economics that governs many  decisions.

Before sous-vide became popular, poaching was recognized as one of the best ways to provide moist, soft, and flavourful protein and vegetable dishes.  Poaching relies on the item being immersed in a liquid and cooked at temps well below the boiling point.  So what do you do with this liquid afterwards?  Many European nations have some version of boiled beef, and this provides a very rich, flavourfull liquid.  What should we call this?  In any case it sure tastes good.....   
 
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Fine, let's include trotters and tips and all kinds of parts that have gelatin.  I would've assumed that was a given in keeping with the tone of the thread.

Stocks have been made for much longer than the commercial meat supply industry has existed so requiring a source of gelatin was part of the game, and happened to be frugal, using all of an animal.

Yes, bones don't have a terrible amount of flavor so we roast them, unless it is a white stock.  But this conversation was not about flavor but rather definitions which lapsed into Escoffier-whipping.

The thread was started by a home cook, so I think we can leave off the stove space and customer issues.  Yes, long simmering times mean long simmered flavor but anyone making their own beef stock probably has the wheedles to still produce an excellent end product.  I mean, they did it in the 1800's.

Finally, back to my point that a stock cannot be made without a gelatin source (I'd say 'bones' but we all know where that got us).  I would substantiate that by saying that no matter what kind of excellent broth I gave you, without gelatin a glacé or aspic could not reasonably be produced.  Since stocks are used for glacé, glacé needs gelatin, stocks need a gelatin source, a phrase which I use now so you don't tell me to add Knox to my broths, which some people do.
 
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a stock can NOT be made without bones
I'm really not trying to pick on you rpooley.  But again I site the Culinary Fundamentals, by The American Culinary Federation.

Vegetable Stock

vegetable oil                               2 fl. oz.
onions, sliced                              1 lb

leeks, chopped                            1 lb

celery, chopped                            8 oz

carrots, chopped                          8 oz

tomato, chopped                          8 oz

garlic cloves, crushed                  3 each

cold water                                    5 qt

Sachet d'epices                            1 each

Heat the oil in a large rondeau over medium-high heat and add the vegetables.  Sweat the vegetables 10 - 12 min until translucent.

Add the water and sachet and simmer 30 - 40 minutes. Strain stock it can be used now or cooled for later use.

Vegetable stock no bones.
 
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Finally, back to my point that a stock cannot be made without a gelatin source (I'd say 'bones' but we all know where that got us).  I would substantiate that by saying that no matter what kind of excellent broth I gave you, without gelatin a glacé or aspic could not reasonably be produced.  Since stocks are used for glacé, glacé needs gelatin, stocks need a gelatin source, a phrase which I use now so you don't tell me to add Knox to my broths, which some people do.
Gelatin is by definition from animal parts.  Here is a web site with gelatin substitutes http://www.thekitchn.com/vegetarian-and-vegan-substitutes-for-gelatin-tips-from-the-kitchn-189478. These may be used to make aspics, panna cotta, and other vegan dishes.  This is not to whip but to educate.  I learn all kinds of things on this forum and don't take disagreements or corrections to heart.  I have learned over the years that I can learn somthing from anybody.
 
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Then I would argue they are incorrectly using the term 'stock' and it would more truly be a vegetable broth.

I'm also not taking any of this to heart but much of this debate would be fine in class or over martinis with James Peterson but it seems way off the ranch for what the original thread post was asking.  
 
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I'm glad your cool with this.  I did respond to the original post today.  As I said I can learn a lot I had never heard of James Peterson but I checked him out and may buy a book.  It is hard to argue with the American Culinary Federation and the Culinary Institute of America on fundamentals and culinary terms.  I think they could be questioned on some regional foods.
 
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I use this James Peterson book as a reference but I imagine others have suggestions:

 
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so you don't tell me to add Knox to my broths, which some people do.
This is what Cook's Illustrated (C.I.) has been advocating for years now.  They also advocate the use of copious amounts of vodka in pastry dough too, and also acknowledge that scaling flour is accurate and quick, but do not advocate the scaling of any other ingredients. Needless to say, I stopped reading C.I. a while back...

I have to say, your posts are similar to another poster, D. Carch.  You should look up his posts, eerily similar to yours.....
 
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The vodka trick works very well in pie doughs, particularly for beginners who may have a little trouble.  Nice and flaky and rolls out like Play-Doh.  I gave it up when I lost my deep freeze and couldn't keep a bottle in there 24 hours a day.

I am familiar with their gelatin uses but it is generally to add body to a stew or braise, or possible to finish a sauce but I guess it could work for a pot of stock if you can work out the math.  I would rather just simmer for a while.

I promise I have no D. Carch alias.  :)
 
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The last beef bone stock I made i roasted the bare bones(I get a 1/4 of beef every year, I pay for the bones so I ask for them!) then into my dutch oven to simmer 24 hours in the oven. When I took out the remains the bones were very light in weight and porous where nutrients had cooked out. Full of tiny holes all over the bones.  Made a very very rich stock from it that went to a beef and barley soup!
 
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I think you guys are all arguing the same thing. 

A stock is made from bones (mostly) and is used as a base to make other types of flavorful liquids--sauces, soups, etc. 

A broth is made from mostly meat and is used mostly as a flavorful liquid to accompany something else or to eat on its own. You usually don't reduce a broth to make sauce or soup. 

I would also argue that consomme using stock vs broth is a moot points, since if you start with a stock and fortify it with the clearmeat you are, in essence, making a clear broth to eat. 

I don't know about this whole "bone broth" thing. Seems like 50% marketing and 50% douche-psuedo hipster nut BS. I guess the idea is to simmer the bones until they literally disintegrate to have all the minerals dissolve and create a healthful liquid. I guess it is more about sustenance and nutrition than about flavor. I dunno. This seems to take a lot more time than the more traditional 4-12 hours to make a chicken or veal stock. 
 
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What? No celery ribs?

I agree with @foodpump that broth is a finished product, stock is a building block.  This is a question that will never be answered, like Ford vs. Chevy, Ginger vs. Maryann, ...
Chopped celery ribs, would that be like broken up bones?  Where are Ginger and Maryann?
 
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