Bolognonese sauce-cream or no cream?

Joined Jul 31, 2000
Dear *&^%$*berger

This is a nice recipe, I see only one thing that perhapes will make it better. Consider seasoning your meats and vegetables as they brown with some salt and pepper, instead of adding it at the end.
This (layering) will give you a finer finished sauce.
Joined Feb 3, 2002
You dare to correct the friendly, but notoriously hot-tempered ShekharBhargava of New Delhi?!!! I am OUTRAGED!

Did I ask for opinions on ShekharBhargavaBolognese, O Caped One?

NO. I did NOT, because it is perfect! PERFECT, I tell you!!! ...In my opinion, of course. ;)

Before daring to make this audacious suggestion, I am sure that you whipped up two batches of ShekharBhargavaBolognese, one perfect (my) version, and one corrupted (Cape Chef) version.

I will agree to one small concession. You may salt and pepper the ground meats at an earlier stage of cooking, if you insist, BUT... only with the lightest of hands! Add more, if necessary, at the end.

Now, it is almost 11:00 PM in New Delhi. I must check on my simmering soup - which will of course be my midnight snack. Good night, all!

PS: :) Since you seem to be a genuinely friendly and helpful fellow, Cape Chef, I will assume that my beautiful name, ShekharBhargava, was only the latest victim of your famous misspelling, and that you intended no ridicule. Otherwise, instead of my bland and insipid Bolognese, you would be tasting. . . .

. . . . . the wrath of Bhargava!!! ;)
Joined Apr 19, 2001
Oh, thank you, SB (I have decided that is what your nickname is - your full name makes my fingers go all twisty on the keyboard!), for your most welcomed recipe! I shall try it - but - cannot rip my recipe into little pieces, as it's in the middle of a very expensive book!

So tell me really, how does sauce Bolognese really go over in New Delhi?!:D
Joined Jul 31, 2000
SB....I think your recipe is pretty good, actually very good.
I am a Chef, I have some knowelage, I like to share.
If you take offence to my suggestion I understand. I am not one to smile at critisism myself, unless ofcourse it is constuctive.

The technique of layering is all important in cooking don't you think. As for my spelling, Yes I "suck" at spelling, but I am a good and thorough cook. I think I could perhaps teach even you a thing or two ;)
Joined Feb 3, 2002
Yes, dear Marmalady, I am quite the anomoly in New Delhi! ;)

It is clear to me, ShekharBhargava, that only the women of Chef Talk Café have senses of humor. ;)

Appearances can be deceptive, Cape Chef!

Life does not always have to be so serious, I think. I have no doubt that I, ShekharBhargava, could learn much from the great chefs of the Western world. And you could learn something from ME - and from Dr. Seuss, who once said:Now, I really must go wake my 11 or 12 children and feed them their midnight snacks!


ShekharBhargava :)
Joined Jul 31, 2000
Maybe your right SB,

I have never been able to find an easy, less serious path. It is my nature, It can be very painful at times, but I am learning slowly but surely,
But anyway back to cooking!!! enjoy your midnight snack with your 12 children ;)
Joined May 26, 2001
Often one to poke my nose into other peoples' conversations, especially one that smells as luscious as this one (oops, sorry about the mixed metaphor) ... I have a question:

I recently made something very much like the ragus discussed above, but with three differences:
  1. No dairy of any sort; neither milk nor cream
  2. for the meat, I used only lamb
  3. for the stock, lamb stock[/list=1]

    I was sure that I'd seen this in one of my books, but couldn't find it. So does anyone know if there is a name for this variation? It can't possibly be Bolognese; I was thinking it might be Sardinian or Sicilian, but ...?? In any case, it was delish, and my guests scarfed it up. Try it sometime!

    BTW, Pongi: I used very little tomato in proportion to the other ingredients. You're right, we tend to make too many sauces into "tomato plus a little other flavoring" which I did not want this one to be.
Joined Jul 31, 2000
Dear Suzanne, Are you refering to Ragu d' Agnella?

It is very similar to what you made, there is some panchetta in it.
I am not sure that this is Southern however
Joined May 26, 2001
Well, I figured it was from Sardinia because there are not that many parts of Italy where sheep are eaten. But, it really didn't matter to the people eating it: to them, it was from Lower Manhattan, and they were very happy. So really all the talk of authenticity is just an academic exercise; what matters is, does it make people feel good? (Another thread on another board, I know, but are we museum curators or lovers of food?!?!?!?)
Joined Jan 11, 2002
Great ShekharBargava! (oh, what skilful fingers I have!:cool: )

I must tell you that last night BALANZONE Genie appeared magically to me from within a crockpot and left a message for your miserable genie:


10 lb minced beef meat
10 lb minced pork meat
10 lb minced luganega (Italian fresh sausage)
1 celery stalk, diced
1 carrot, diced
1 onion, diced
1 handful chopped parsley, diced
1 glass red wine
oil and butter
salt and pepper
beef stock
2-3 tbsp concentrated tomato puree (NO fresh tomato!:mad: )
1/2 glass wholemilk (NO cream!:mad: :mad: and, in any case, it's an optional)

As for the procedure, Balanzone genie must admit that your genie isn't so far from the truth, and only recommends to cook vegetables at first and then add all the meats.

In his magnanimity, he also tells you that, if you'll lay down trembling at his feet, he'll share with you his TRUE, UNIQUE LAMB KORMA RECIPE.

After that, the BALILLA Genie appeared to me and said that a good Genovese variation of meat sauce could be a handful of dried Porcini mushrooms, soaked in water, minced and added to the other vegetables (to tell the truth, the typical Genovese meat sauce, called "Tocco", is made with a whole piece of beef, like the Ragù alla Napoletana)

Finally, the CUCCUREDDU genie appeared and said that lamb meat is widely diffused in all the Central and Southern Italy, not only in Sardinia, and that he doesn't know so much about Ragù d'Agnello (is it from Sardinia? Abruzzo? Lazio? Who knows?) but he'll look for more info.

Best regards to your 120 children,

Pongi and the 40 genies
Joined Apr 19, 2001
Pongi I am jealous of your skilled fingers! And thank you, thank you for Balanzone's recipe! Ummm---small question "1 glass of wine" - are we talking shot glass - water glass - wine glass - tankard?!!!
Joined May 1, 2001
I hate to criticize, but 30 pounds of meat? And 3 tbsp. of tomato paste? I realize traditional Italian sauces use less tomato than their American imitations, but that's more than a little extreme, don't you think? :eek:
Joined Feb 3, 2002
...Better make it a tankard, my Marmalady. With the amount of meat in that obviously inferior recipe, you may need it! ;)

At least this upstart Pongi show the rest of you impertinent children how to pay obeisance to my name - always begin with a complimentary adjective. "GREAT" will do. Now, back to the pressing matter at hand.... the decapitation of Pongi's inept excuse for a Genie. . . "Qui sème le vent récolte la tempête"!

Immediately upon reading your recipe, O Perspicacious Pongi, I summoned MY all-knowing (albeit, enslaved) authentic Genie with a brisk rub to my ancient brass lantern (which, by the way is the only proper dwelling for a TRUE Genie). :)

He took one look at your recipe and looked at me in perplexed horror. He shrieked as if I had ripped out his heart with my bare hands!

Next, he ripped your recipe into little, tiny pieces of confetti! Yes, and then he spat upon it! He continued to spit until... well, you get the idea.

After the smoke cleared, I could see that his rage had magically disappeared. He was smiling! He began to laugh, with a large laugh that shook the walls of the House of Bhargava in New Delhi!

Here is the message that MY Genie sends to YOUR wretched imposter - BALANZONE/BALONEY, the Crockpot Genie:

"It is only by the mercy of my Master, the Mighty and Exalted ShekharBhargava, that you still own a head today! :( So use it to correct the fraud that you have perpetrated on this forum through the keypad of Pitiful Pongi, whom you have deceived with this counterfeit recipe- which I have magically reproduced below."While I - the BrilliantBhargava - will lay no claims to mathematical wizardry (after all, with only 10 fingers upon which to count, I cannot be sure whether I have 12 children, or only 11), it is clear even to ME that there is far too much meat for this recipe to be called a "sauce" of any kind!

Now, as for the suggestion by the crackpot genie, BALANZONE/BALONEY:Let me explain this as gently as possible...

"GROVELING", my dear Pongi, has always been a difficult concept for Bhargava to warm to. Are we clear on that? Good! :)

It appears that your twisted little genie has the comical idea that I - Master Chef ShekharBargava of New Delhi - would not already have four dozen versions of Lamb Korma among my vast resources! So... while the stunning audacity of his "offer" might ordinarily provoke a savage response in hot-tempered ShekharBargava, I will dismiss this trifle with a hearty laugh! Ha Ha Ha!!!

I suggest you put the lid back on that crockpot before MY Genie sends yours to live inside a pressure cooker! ;)

Now, it is time, my Peerless Pongi, to admit that you have been misinformed, and thus have inadvertently misled this forum with a bogus recipe from that malevolent maniac, Balanzone.

Do not expect to hear from ShekharBargava of New Delhi for a few days. I was delayed this morning, but I leave momentarily for urgent business in Florida. My magic carpet awaits... two pilots, but I will be the only passenger.

Farewell, my beloved Chef Talk Café!
Joined Jan 11, 2002
OMG...I must have been so worried about demonstrating that we Italians use few tomato in our sauces, that Sigmund Freud inspired me with a slip! More, I probably wasted all my brains in converting the amounts from the decimal to the American system and after that I was too tired to check a second time what I had written :blush:
In any case, where was the mistake? You have two options:

1)Keep all the doses apart from the meat doses, and substitute "lb" with "oz";)

2)Keep the meat doses and the wine tankard and change the rest of the recipe as follows:
-10 carrots
-10 celery stalks
-10 onions
-a parsley forrest
-30 tbsp concentrated tomato
-1/2 tankard milk

Probably, Shekharbargava with his 1200 hungry children will like more the second option...

BTW: I didn't say Balanzone has only ONE Lamb Korma recipe! As a matter of facts he has at least TEN DOZEN recipes...he simply chose the BEST:D


Joined Aug 10, 2001
hey Pongi...While in bologna (if youve been there-not meant as an insult-) did you ever see the plaque (sp??) there is with the ragu bolognese recipe on it? apparently, there is a golden tagliatelle on another demonstrating the perfect size for a tagliatelle. I have never left canada, so I cant dispute, also, I have never made or eaten ragu bolongese (I know I'm missing out).

but Pongi, If you evr have acess to them, or means to go and look (I think its deserving of a trip all its own after this thread:rolleyes: ) do you think you may be able to post the recipe? shanksh eitha way...thish thread wash hilariuosh.

(additional commentary by sean connery)
Joined Jan 11, 2002
Well, my friends!
I have sent my messengers all around the Kingdom, and they came back with the True Truth about the Ragù Dilemma!
Although I've been some times in Bologna, I've never seen that plaque...but I can tell you that the Italian Academy of Cooking (Accademia Italiana della Cucina) has codified the original recipe of the "RAGU' CLASSICO BOLOGNESE" which text is kept into the local Camera di Commercio. This can be considered the OFFICIAL RECIPE, as the Accademia is the main italian authority about cooking...

Being the procedure about the same we already know, I'll report only the ingredients (serve 4):

-300 gr beef meat
-150 gr pancetta tesa
-50 gr carrot
-50 gr celery
-50 gr onion
-5 tbsp tomato puree, or 20 gr concentrated tomato extract
-1/2 glass white or red wine
-1 glass wholemilk
-beef stock if required

The cooking time, apart from the time required to brown the ingredients (firstly the vegs and pancetta, then the meat) is 40 mins.

As for the RAGU' D'AGNELLO, it's a recipe from Abruzzo:

Ingredients (serve 4)

-200 gr lamb meat, cut in pieces
-2 garlic cloves
-2 fresh peppers, chopped
-3 fresh tomatoes, chopped
-2 bay leaves
-1/2 glass white wine
-oil, meat stock, salt, black pepper

Procedure as usual (cook first garlic and bay leaves, then lamb, then add wine, then tomatoes and peppers, stock if required)

Sorry for the grams instead of ozs...but it's better I spare my small and poor brains!-:roll:

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