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Becoming a "Serious" Home Cook

5K views 37 replies 12 participants last post by  spoiledbroth 
#1 ·
Hello!  I enjoy cooking and have been diving in heavily over the last couple of years learning recipes and a few techniques (most drawn from Ruhlman's 20).  Some of my favorite things to do are sauté meat/fish and use the fond to make a nice pan sauce to pour over the meat and sides.  I enjoy making salads and my own dressings.

My question to you real chefs is this - how can I program my home routine to help me learn professional techniques?  I picked up a copy of The Professional Chef put out by CIA among other books that I hope can guide my learning.

So tonight I am making a brown beef stock, following the instructions for brown veal stock.  I am having trouble understanding whether I should cool and store the ~gal of stock I will make, reserve some to make other "downstream" sauces like demi-glace, or a "jus" of sorts. . . 

Can anyone give me some ideas on how to use this beef stock in recipes?  Or can you please provide guidance on how a serious home cook should go about making stocks/glaces/etc for future use?  Any other ideas or tips for the beginner?

Thanks, everyone!  This seems like a really great community and I look forward to sharing my experiences with you as I continue to evolve as a "home chef."

David
 
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#2 ·
Welcome to Cheftalk! It is, indeed, a "really great community" as you say. While there are thousands of members, the majority of the posts come from a much smaller group of people that you will get to know as you go along. You may want to check out this thread to sort of get acquainted with some of the regulars.
[thread="80636"]Show Us Your Face [/thread]
Others will chime in no doubt on uses for stock other than making soup. There was a recent thread which mentioned a 72 hour beef stock, I have plans to try that with a pho recipe soon. One quick tip is that most folks either omit salt in the stock or use it very sparingly. If it is a general purpose stock that may be reduced heavily later in the future you don't want to concentrate the salt. If it is a small batch with a specific purpose then heavy seasoning may be acceptable.

Enjoy your stay.

mjb.
 
#3 ·
I like to make stock and portion it out to quart and 1/2 quart containers and store in the freezer. Make sure you label and date your stock!

Stock is great not just for gravy and jus but also for pasta dishes and risotto. You can also use it to make soup.
 
#4 ·
Great, thanks! I have heard it is best not to put salt in the stock for the reasons you describe. When I taste the stock as it's cooking I take a spoonful and add a little salt to that.
I like to make stock and portion it out to quart and 1/2 quart containers and store in the freezer. Make sure you label and date your stock!

Stock is great not just for gravy and jus but also for pasta dishes and risotto. You can also use it to make soup.
Cool, thanks. Do you mind elaborating on the difference between "gravy" and "jus"?
 
#5 ·
Welcome to Cheftalk! It is, indeed, a "really great community" as you say. While there are thousands of members, the majority of the posts come from a much smaller group of people that you will get to know as you go along. You may want to check out this thread to sort of get acquainted with some of the regulars.
[thread="80636"]Show Us Your Face [/thread]
Others will chime in no doubt on uses for stock other than making soup. There was a recent thread which mentioned a 72 hour beef stock, I have plans to try that with a pho recipe soon. One quick tip is that most folks either omit salt in the stock or use it very sparingly. If it is a general purpose stock that may be reduced heavily later in the future you don't want to concentrate the salt. If it is a small batch with a specific purpose then heavy seasoning may be acceptable.

Enjoy your stay.

mjb.
Cool. Yeah I definitely didn't plan on using any salt in the stock - picked that tidbit up already somewhere along the way. It sounds like, for the home cook at least, batches of stock are typically portioned and frozen for future use. Am I correct in thinking that these frozen portions of stock can be used to make other stock/sauce components? What are some of the stock/sauce components that use brown beef stock as an ingredient?
 
#8 ·
So for recipes in the book that call for demi-glace, can I basically just reduce this brown beef stock? If so, by how much?
Demi is generally thickened with roux, though. My standard recipe calls for half beef / half veal, too.

Making demi-based sauces with just a reduced stock works perfectly well, too, though. For that I reduce the stock to the point where it starts to gel when cooling. I make a big pot of stock every couple of weeks, refrigerate it overnight (helps to solidify the last bits of fat in it, so you can easily skim it off next morning), and freeze it in portions. Those I can thaw when needed and use as a base for sauces (try a sauce charcutiere with pork, it's glorious), for risottos, to give pasta sauces a bit more kick, etc.

A nice book on the classic french sauces is Sokolov's "The saucier's apprentice".
 
#9 · (Edited)
Ok so I put the stock in the refrigerator overnight and just removed the layer of fat on top.  The stock looks good, but is not gelling as much as I had hoped - could this be because it didn't reduce enough?  I mean, it's kind of, eh, syrupy, but I have made stocks in the past that gelled more.  I was supposed to wind up with 1 gal, but it looks like there are maybe 5 or 6 quarts left.  Can I throw it back on the stove to reduce further?  What would you all recommend?
 
#15 ·
I'm like you Cardello. I've looked at getting the same book, but haven't yet. I would like your input/review about the CIA book. Is it more or less a textbook? And how hard is it to follow, or translate? And is it worth the price?
Well I have only had the book for a few days, and I'm doing my best to take it from square one. I'll try to keep you posted.
 
#17 · (Edited)
For it to gel, I use a lot of bones. Main question, however, is - how is the taste and the mouthfeel? When working it into a sauce, you will bind it with butter, for example, anyway. Reducing it too far can make the taste unpleasant, too.
I tasted it cold after skimming the fat, and it struck me as somewhat watery and lacking in beef flavor. Would these be caused by insufficient reduction and no use of actual meat? Should I include beef cuts in addition to bones (this time I used a combo of marrow bones and knuckles - 8 lbs. in 6 quarts of water) in a stock? What cuts? What is the difference between a 'stock' and a 'broth' then?
 
#20 ·
I tasted it cold after skimming the fat, and it struck me as somewhat watery and lacking in beef flavor. Would these be caused by insufficient reduction and no use of actual meat? Should I include beef cuts in addition to bones (this time I used a combo of marrow bones and knuckles - 8 lbs. in 6 quarts of water) in a stock? What cuts? What is the difference between a 'stock' and a 'broth' then?
I always have some meat in it for getting the flavour boosted. Shank or shin, oxtail, veal tail are all good to use there.
thought you were saying roux + stock
Yeah, sorry. Cut my comment a bit short - I was referring to the full preparation like the one you quoted. I still hold the opinion that you can substitute a clear, reduced stock for the demi in many of the classic sauce preparations.
 
#21 · (Edited)
1. I always have some meat in it for getting the flavour boosted. Shank or shin, oxtail, veal tail are all good to use there.

2. .... I still hold the opinion that you can substitute a clear, reduced stock for the demi in many of the classic sauce preparations.
Absolutely agreeing on both points! In modern kitchens, mostly a "fond brun" is used for sauces, a reduction of veal stock. Other musts in a modern kitchen are chickenstocks, mostly "blanc" types which are made without roasting the bones first.

As a starting home cook, imo you should experiment first with simple things and see how they work in sauces. Many times you will end up with a disappointing tasteless watery concoction if you're overly ambitious.

How about starting with a "fond blanc de volaille". The suggestion that Gene makes of using meat is so very true when it comes to taste. Simply put a whole chicken in a large pot, cover with cold water, bring to a boil, skim, reduce fire and add aromats like onion, carrot, leek, celery and herbs. Simmer for no longer that one hour. Take the meat off the bones and make something interesting with it like vol-au-vent. Put the bones and skin back in the bouillon (broth) and simmer for another hour. Always without a lid of course. Remove the solids and reduce the stock by half on much higher fire. You'll end up with no more than this amount of gelatinous fond blanc, a thousand times tastier that making quarts of watery stuff. All using only one whole chicken. Perfect addition for poultry and... fish sauces.


Same thing with using just a couple of thick slices (1 inch) of beef shank with bone or an oxtail etc. Same method as above but use a pressure cooker this time and let it go for around 3 hours. Best stock ever, also to be reduced if you want a gelatinous stock. Beware,do not overfill the pressure cooker. You'll end up with a rather small amount of stock.

Making "fond brun" with veal bones would be the last step I make. It takes like forever to roast the bones for an hour, add aromatics and tomato paste, roast again for an hour, transfer to a stockpot and simmer for 12 hours, then reduce to one third or so. I think that's a little overkill for homecooks (like I am), even experienced ones. I never hesitate to use those modern low salt stock pastes to make the most fantastic sauces. As far as I'm concerned, better using good commercial stock paste than a watery homemade bouillon.
 
#24 ·
It has been my experience that most professional kitchens today, if they are making their own stocks, use glace de viande (even if they don't use the correct terminology) as a starting point for many sauces.

As a somewhat interesting or humorous side note, depending upon your point of view, in the last 10 years in professional evvironments the topic of discussion about how exactly I make a demi glace has come up three times. My question back is always "demi glace or glace de viande".

The first time was during a job interview. The chef/owner smiled and hired me.

The second time the chef/owner frowned and blustered a bit before redirecting the conversation. I didn't last long there because I believe the chef/owner was intimidated professionally.

The third time, the chef/owner definitely had her wheels turning trying to figure out what I was asking. I clarified my question a bit. We reached a common ground and then I was assigned the job of making the product. She gives me a wide berth since then but it must be working because I have been there 4 years now.

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/chef.gif
 
#25 ·
It has been my experience that most professional kitchens today, if they are making their own stocks, use glace de viande (even if they don't use the correct terminology) as a starting point for many sauces.

As a somewhat interesting or humorous side note, depending upon your point of view, in the last 10 years in professional evvironments the topic of discussion about how exactly I make a demi glace has come up three times. My question back is always "demi glace or glace de viande".

The first time was during a job interview. The chef/owner smiled and hired me.

The second time the chef/owner frowned and blustered a bit before redirecting the conversation. I didn't last long there because I believe the chef/owner was intimidated professionally.

The third time, the chef/owner definitely had her wheels turning trying to figure out what I was asking. I clarified my question a bit. We reached a common ground and then I was assigned the job of making the product. She gives me a wide berth since then but it must be working because I have been there 4 years now.

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/chef.gif
So what is the difference between a demi glace and a glace de viande?
 
#26 ·
A demi glace is a sauce and a glace de viande is a reduced meat stock./img/vbsmilies/smilies/chef.gif
 
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