# Coreless Damascus



## grahapes (Jan 13, 2013)

Hello my name is Graham and i am new to this forum, but not new to knives, sharpening, cooking, steel types etc and look forward to share any knowledge i have in the future, but for now... Anyone have any experience with coreless Damascus. the process of layer, folded and forge welded vg10 and vg2. 

"Coreless Clad steel is 1.4 times durable to chipping and breaking than the single VG-10 and VG-2 steel, and also was 25% sharper than the VG-10 edge in the cutting test." JCK.com

It is intriguing to me because so many mass produced knives simply wrap their core steal in a purely asthetic folded "Damascus"

Grahapes





  








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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Fau damascus is striclty for looks.  I have to at least doubt those virtues described for the non-cored damascus knife you mention.  Wootz steel swords were not folded and are considered significantly superior to the folded steel japaneses blades of old that were their contemporaries.  The process of making wootz steel was lost for centuries but rediscoveered in the 70's by Bill Bagwell and maybe some others, the process is well known nowadays.  I have not heard it being called superior to modern alloy single steel blades though.  I believe the blade Bob Kramer uses to demonstrate hammering through steel bolts without damage is single-steel 52100.

That being said, VG10 may very well hold up better as a true layered steel, I dunno, never saw this Echizen brand rated here, dosen't look like they're even available yet.

I'm not that crazy about a vg10 core in the Shun I have, but that's Shun's fault in large part.  Others here have intimated VG10 is not the wunder steel it has been presented as.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

What do "1.4 times more durable to chipping and breaking," and "25% sharper" actually mean?  If you re-read the copy you got from JCK (and which, no doubt, was supplied by the manufacturer), and apply the ordinary rules of "critical thinking," you'll quickly realize that the numbers supplied are BS.  I'm not saying that the knives in question don't have better edge retention and aren't less likely to chip than other, "ordinary," cladded-core knives, just that the numbers don't supply meaningful information.  Usually, the best way to deal with BS is to avoid stepping in it. 

BDL


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## grahapes (Jan 13, 2013)

I was quoting jck. As stated above. All I am asking is do you see any benefits of this. Why can't I find any info on them, surely someone has bought one. The outer "Damascus" outer layers on say a shun, are purely aesthetic correct? Do you see any benefits in layering vg-2 and vg-10 as your entire blade. Would make the "damascus" pattern functional not purely cosmetic, although still not hand forged.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

The blades are hand forged functional damascus. It is possible but unlikely that they are sharper than, let's say, a Hattori or Ryusen which around here are said to be amongst the better of vg10 knives.  They may be more chip resistant than a conventionally cored vg10 blade, but not gauranteed.  As BDL said it in the beginning of his eloquent reply, their figures are meaningless.  We have no idea at this time what their heat treat is going to produce.  This thing could pssiblbly be nothing more than a marketing ploy and a dud.  (edited)

From all appearences they just started selling them which would explain why you see no reviews (I noticed they just yesterday updated that section of the website).  They are somewhat expensive.  At this point it is fair to say that, interms of edge taking, holding and chip resistance, for the money you can very possibly do better for a stainless knife.  

Then, as others would point out, there are all of the other qualities aside from blade steel for you to consider.

Summing up, it can hardly be considered prudence to base a decision on a picture and a couple of fantasy numbers, and that is mostly all you have to work with at this time.  I could buy a knife like that on a whim just because I liked the looks, and likely be OK with it regardless.  You're a professional, if this knife has to work for you on the line because you don't want to have to buy another that will, and you are looking to purchase a knife anytime soon, you'd be much safer going with something that is a known quantity.

Hope this helps.

Rick


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