# Keeping the kitchen staff strictly Hispanic???



## culinaryhustler (Apr 24, 2009)

It is harder and harder for individuals like myself who are not Hispanic but passionate about cooking to get a start in a restaurant kitchen. Why do restaurateurs or maybe specifically chefs target only Hispanic individuals to work their kitchen? I know that an ego usually comes with the business minded. Therefore, I really feel that the only reason Hispanics are hired is that most chefs/restaurateurs feel better at ease believing these Hispanics will never surpass them in this industry. Not only that but more often these Hispanics works hard and gets paid less. DISCRIMINATION I understand that the kitchen may not seem like a glamorous job and maybe individuals feel it is necessary to hire an old broken English speaking Mexican than to hire an educated promising 20 something with a future knowing this is as good as it gets for them when the 20 something can find better. However, individuals like me who was desperate for a start should get there start. Everyone gets started somewhere to gain experience necessary to land more prominent roles and build upon their careers. Whether you are black, white, Hispanic or Asian it shouldn't matter for a person willing to work whether it be to gain experience or simply just to make a living. If you are an executive chef owner of your own restaurant do you or would you hire strictly Hispanic just so you can squash any up and comers that might still your thunder?


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

I hire those that want the job, can do the job, but don't feel entitled to the job.
Race has nothing to do with it.
Over the years I've been accused of being biased against females, and of favoring females.
Of being biased against older people, and favoring older people.
Same goes for different races, or any other way you want to seperate one person from another.
And it's all B.S.
I hire...well, read the first sentence.


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

I totaly agree.
And dont know if noticed, but all your advertising, newspapers, TV, Billboaeds are geared toward Hispanic Sector. Why? because it is the largest growth group in our country. If you want to be the chef of the future, take a course in spanish, it will prepare you for the present and future of this business. Some people should Wake up and smell the coffee and stop feeling sorry for themselves. One of the best Exec. Chefs I ever worked with was at the Friars Club in New York, he was Spanish FROM PUERTO RICO and he spoke French!


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

As a former owner of 2 restaurants I will tell you that I hired the ones who were hungry to work and werent afraid to work HARD. It didnt matter what color, nationality or sex you were, and I ran a fairly mixed kitchen in Austin, Tx about 5 years ago. You need to stop feeling sorry for yourself and get out there, protray a sense of confidence and show that you can do the job better, faster and for the same $$. Nobody will give you anything and nobody is entitled to anything, you need to take it...


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## blueicus (Mar 16, 2005)

Agreed with all of the above. Humility, a strong work ethic, a lack of sense of entitlement will take you a long way, regardless of ethicity.


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## buonaboy (Sep 5, 2007)

I agree as well, but I have to admit, 8 out of 10 "white" kids I've hired have a HUGE sense of entitlement. You can almost set your watch by it. Within 2 weeks of getting a job they will have their elbows up on the pass, flirting with the waitresses, texting whenever they think no one's looking and thinking they are the next top chef -just waiting to be discovered. Meanwhile, 8 out of 10 of the Hispanics in the kitchen find things to do, ASK for things to do -on a slow night they will have all the prep done for the next day. I've promoted many a dishwasher -to prep cook-to a grill or broiler position, even though they spoke hardly a word of English.

I'm probably going to get flamed for saying this, -but its a culture thing. 
Here in E-merica we are breeding lazier, more technology dependent, I-want-to-be-on -TV kids. We reward bad behavior, and nurture shortcomings to a fault. Work ethic is falling by the wayside and experience is losing it's importance. I've spent 18 years in kitchens, and these kids think they're going to be a "star chef" a few years out of school?! It just doesn't work like that.

Read "The Apprentice" by Jaques Peppin

Hard work is the bottom line. My advice to CulinaryHustler, and anyone else in the field - Work harder that anyone else in the kitchen, listen, ask questions and treat everyone with respect. And I mean EVERYONE, -that Spanish speaking dishwasher is going to save your ***** one Friday night, when you've forgot to prep something. -if you only take a little time to learn some Spanish.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

After re-reading the OP, my take is that C Hustler has an attitude that comes across poorly during the interview process.

I wanted to relate a situation that happened a few years ago.
I work for an Indian Casino, and we hire all types of people, as we should.
I had this one cook who was a problem, and whenever I tried to discipline him, this was his response:
"You're biased against Indians".
No, I actually have quite a few working for me, and some have been promoted to higher positions than you, like Karrie.
"Well, then you're biased against male Indians".
No, (young) Joseph is doing quite well here.
"Well, you're biased against older male Indians".
Again, no, (older) Thomas is one of my better employees, and just got a promotion.

This went on until he determined that I was biased against someone who was like him, and he was the only one who fit that description.

There are those that will always be looking for some form of transgression against them, and in their mind will always see it, even when it doesn't exist.


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## blueicus (Mar 16, 2005)

Is it against the labour code to be biased against lazy people?


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

I have to say after reading the OP that Jim is right in so far as the problem seems to lie with the OP. There's an attitude that just seems to ooze racism. Say what you want, but that's what I got out of it.
As far as the quantity of hispanics in a kitchen in my experience if you hire one they will tell others who want to work that you will hire them. If you treat them right (just like anyone else) then their buddies and family members will want to work there as well. As far as work ethic goes I won't compare them as a group to anyone else, but I have rarely seen anything but the highest work ethic from the hispanics. They don't complain, they are eager to learn and work their a**'s off!
It can be difficult to break any barrier when a group is somewhat entrenched in there and this goes for any group of people. As far as salary we always paid the going rate, period! Doesn't mater who you are. Maybe in your area there's simply more hispanics per job that others. But you may want to reread your OP and it seems pretty obvious where the problem really lies.


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## culinaryhustler (Apr 24, 2009)

I have absolutely no problems with Hispanics at all. People are getting things mixed up and viewing ME as a racist or something. That is far from what I am. I work in a kitchen where the majority are Hispanic and they are great hard working people. I can not picture the kitchen I work in without them. I will break things down if my post was not clear enough. I have served 6 years as a United States Army Food Inspector. I say that proudly and humbly. I don't ever forget where I came from and for that I am not looking for any advantages or shortcuts. I know just about everything there is about sanitation and I have plenty of experience interacting with vendors. I have supervised operations in the kitchen in Iraq as well as cooked. After being honorably discharged a nearly 6 months ago I enrolled in culinary school and just recently landed a position as a line cook but it took me forever. I know that maybe I don't have much actually kitchen/cooking experience but I am truly passionate about obtaining it. The problem is that I FEEL(my opinion) that between a person such as myself with hardly any experience but passionate about gaining versus a inexperienced Hispanic man not looking to gain experience but just to make a living the position is usually given to the Hispanic man. To clarify from my post, I FEEL (my opinion) that Hispanics are hired in large because people feel as though they won't have to worry about a Hispanic who barely speaks English to surpass them and steal their ideas/recipes/techniques/business concepts from them but then they gotta feel a little intimidated by a young culinary student with promise. AM I RIGHT OR WRONG? There are so many culinary students such as myself or simply individuals who really just want to learn how to cook and get started in a kitchen somewhere that constantly gets turned down over someone who is Hispanic and barely speaks English. I know even Hispanic culinary students who get turned down over there much older Hispanic brothers who don't speak any English and are just looking to make a living. IN MY OPINION THESE CHEFS/RESTAURATEURS ARE RACIST FOR THE FACT THEY VIEW HISPANICS AS HARD WORKING PEOPLE BUT PEOPLE WHO CAN NOT SURPASS THEM AND THEREFORE THAT IS WHY THEY ARE HIRED. More often than not if you are an educated american born individual who wants to learn to cook restaurants push you to be servers than to cook. If you are Hispanic and want to improve upon your English and interaction with others restaurants will push you to cook rather than be a server. TELL ME IF I AM RIGHT OR WRONG AND THEN TELL ME IF I AM THE FREAKING RACIST AND I GOT THE POOR ATTITUDE?


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

I have not seen or heard anything that supports that opinion.
Is it possible?
Sure, I guess so.
But I haven't seen it.


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

I'm not going to call you a racist, I don't know you. But what I will tell you is you answered your own question and probably didn't even realize it. I am going to break this down to you as an owner, chef with staffs of upwards of 20 ppl, and 20+ year veteran of the kitchen. You said that we, Chefs(and for the record I have taken this personally), hire ppl who are looking to make a living, they probably have families and have bills to pay, THEY ARE HUNGRY. Hungry employees dont talk back, dont show up late and dont question when asked to do something, as a general rule, older applicants are more reliable and depending upon where you live many of them may be Hispanic. Younger more ambitious, passionate applicants think they know it all, have seen it all or have read it and its old news. They seem to think they have a better way and quite honestly have a HORRIBLE WORK ETHIC. These are the stigmas that you will find EVERYWHERE you go until you prove yourself otherwise. Its not a racial thing, its about work ethic and what is happening in the work force today.


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## culinaryhustler (Apr 24, 2009)

I understand what you are saying and I believe at least we both agree that this topic is very controversial. For the record I never said ALL Chefs. As much as you say I answered my own question, you very well fit the criteria of individuals who am I speaking about. ChefHow how the **** do you gauge a person's hunger? If I am saying to you that I was hungry, culinary students are hungry for an opportunity. You already put the stamp on it. You already drew the conclusion that young individuals think they know it all and therefore it is best to hire old non passionate applicants who don't know anything and usually don't know much English too. That is what you are saying. It all confirms what I said and that is simple, there are those Chefs with big egos who loves to hire Hispanics who don't speak much English for the fact you also think they don't know much. Therefore, these individuals won't know much to even think of attempting to surpass a Chef with 20 years of experience such as yourself. This is how you feel and therefore I find this discrimination. I have been to war for this country and I served proudly. If you were to view me as a cocky individual with weak work ethic and think that I know it all you are far from the truth. I think it takes a humble individual to go to war for his country voluntarily. I have gone to restaurants and asked to be a dishwasher just so I can learn the kitchen and have gotten rejected. Now tell me that isn't hunger for a veteran of this great country that can get several high paying government jobs to beg for a position in a kitchen as a dishwasher and get rejected. I don't think you know how that feels so for you to look at the young and say we are not hungry. I think you are discriminating and you are the one that THINKS YOU KNOW IT ALL.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

If conclusion jumping was a sport you could be an Olympian.
Chefhow said none of what you are attibuting to him.
You've obviously got a chip on your shoulder, and I believe it comes across to people you interact with.
If you presented half this much attitude when applying at my place I wouldn't hire you either.
And I'm sorry but not all culinary students are hungry or passionate.

Do you just make this stuff up? 


I hope you find what you're looking for, and end up happy.

I'm out.


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Lets talk apples to apples oranges to oranges here. The Army and Iraq have nothing to do with your beginning question. A lot of us were in military service. So what! That has nothing to do with the Oh they hired a Hispnaic before me. I taught culinary arts in the New York and private school system for many years. There are all kinds of students ones who as I say "Have it in their hands and once that do not." I blame the administration of the schools for painting visions of sugarplums in these students heads. When you graduate you know strickly the basics, thats if you listened and watched. You are not within 7 years going to become Exec.Chef at The Waldorf. nor even qualify for Sous Chef. 
You have to as most of the older guys on this site have done, pay your dues and learn. I dont care if you were valdictorian at the CIA you have to gradualy get your knowlefge and experience and backround ON THE JOB.
You may not like what I say or how I say it, but I dont BS thats the way it is and its not going to change for you.
When I interview, I dont want to hear how great you are and what you know, I want to know what you dont know so we can help you learn, BUT YOU ALREADY KNOW IT


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## gunnar (Apr 3, 2008)

nifty topic. want a hard job to get? apply at authentic Chinese, Indian or Thai places.. you stand no chance. I have actually been laughed at for even asking at several places. I have been shmoozing my way into my favorite Mexican place and it looks like I might get some part time work there soon. It also helps that I have a small but rapidly growing vocabulary of "kitchen spanish". 

I'll tell ya something else, hungry also means showing up week after week, month after month to get the chance to work for THE restaurant you want. some places just have gotten lucky and have the same employees for years, they honestly don't need you. Others have a waiting list of honestly hungry people who will drop what they are doing to go to work at THIS place cause of the chef, the reputation or just because of the ideals of the owner. persistence and patience will get you far in this industry.


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

While I can understand the fact that you think you are being discrimenated against, I have absolutely NO SIMPATHY FOR YOU!! Your assumptions of me and other Chefs is why you are where you are today, and thats obviously no where questioning what to do next. I hope that you open your eyes and see the light, as we have seen in your previous posts you are going to need to in order to get a job. Its a very tough, very tight job market right now and for those of you who think that because you went to culinary school you should get a job ahead of somebody who didnt, well your sorely mistaken. I cant say it enough, your passion doesnt mean SQUAT if you have no drive to get ahead and desire to bust your ***** for what ever it is you are going to get paid. I know that you think you have been there and done that but you dont know a thing about the real restaurant world. 

Good luck to you, you are certainly going to need it with an attitude like that and all of the assumptions you have made in this post.


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## chefelle (Feb 17, 2007)

No--I do not believe that chefs choose to hire people that they think do not have the talent or drive to surpass them. We hire people that are teachable. And we like to surround ourselves with people who work hard, want to learn, and YES--who have talent. As one of the other chefs pointed out....training is expensive and time consuming. High employee turnover in restaurants costs money. So yes..while we as chefs feel it is our duty to help train up a new generation of cooks who will move on to different (and perhaps bigger) things...we also need to build up a loyal brigade who will stay with us for years if we are lucky. People who are happy to come into work every day and do the menial jobs and don't necessarily have huge culinary dreams for themselves. Those jobs need to be filled too. If I were to hire you for a dishwasher's position you would most definitely want to advance over time. And that's a good thing. And I richly reward initiative and interest in my patisserie. But at the same time...I still need my dishes done. Why not hire someone who just wants to be a dishwasher in the first place? This has nothing to do with my ego as a chef...it has to do with my needs as an employer. And it has to do with being a wise financial manager. I had to hire and train you....now you want to move to another position so I now have to hire and train someone else. That costs me MORE MONEY. Restaurants are about making money as you know and in these lean financial times restauranteurs have to be smarter than ever about how they spend every penny.

I'm not concerned about my staff surpassing my ability....it certainly would make me look like an amazing teacher if they did. Really and truly there is nothing new under the sun....there really isn't. The man who trained me--a brilliant chef by the way--told me there are no secret recipes. You take those recipes to a level no one can replicate by your skill level. I have a certain skill level....others will have more skill than me or less skill than me....I can't concern myself with that...and I don't. My sous chef is a better bread baker than I'll ever be. Does that make me feel insecure? Not in the least. In fact--I encourage her to learn more...to gain more knowledge and skill. And I teach her as much as I can as often as I can. 

Anyway--that's my two cents worth.


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

First off let me start this post off with a warning: we have seen these conversations on Cheftalk many times before and often they get closed down because they often turn into a flaming war and have sometimes gotten quite abusive. I am not pointing the finger at anyone but I am saying watch your steps or you will find this thread closed as flaming wars bring nothing constructive to the thread or to Cheftalk.

On to my post. I have never not hired anyone because I feel that they could surpass me and show me up. First off, just a few years with me won't cut it for that. It takes years and usually a number of chefs to turn out great cooks, though there are some exceptions. So that has never been a deciding factor in my hiring process. In fact, I will teach anyone all that they can absorb hoping one day they take my job or at the very least move on to bigger and better. That's what me chefs did for me and that is what I feel obligated to do for those who work under me. As for hiring hispanics, I don't make it go out of my way to hire hispanics or not hire hispanics. I hire the person who is qualified for the job, one who I feel will give me some loyalty and not take off after 6 months, who will work hard, give me 110%, one who I know will show up every day, and one who is willing to work for what I can pay them. This last one is rather important. I see kids coming out of culinary school who feel they should be making $10-15 an hour. That is pretty much out of my price range. Profit margins are tight and so are labor dollars. I pay most of my staff under $10 an hour oftentimes (depending on where I am living) with only those key employees with a good amount of experience making more. You'd be amazed how many culinary grads never call me back after they find that out. I also don't need a cook around who is always second guessing me and unfortunately it seems many of today's culinary grads feel entitled to letting their opinions be known. Working with hispanics who are "just there for a job," I know they will execute my menu the way I want and not change the dish or the plating because they feel they have a "better" way.

Finally, I find these conversations all somewhat racist against both hispanics and caucasians. I have employeed many great hispanics and many hispanics who were lazy, sleazy, conniving bums, but the same goes for caucasians. Anytime you decide to speak about a large group in general you automatically make gross generalizations that usually are not very representative. The same goes for making gross generalizations about chefs. I know chefs of all types and to make sweeping generalizations about us just doesn't seem very practical.


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## rsteve (May 3, 2007)

You are as WRONG as WRONG can be!!! Great chefs teach in their kitchens every day. 

Everything you've written smacks of racism and a very poor attitude. I can't imagine anyone hiring you. Truthfully, I think you'd do yourself a favor by going back in the army and your old MOS.


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## oldschool1982 (Jun 27, 2006)

Here here Pete!!!! My belief (whether my employees believed it or not is a different thing) was that my success was 49% of my own doing and 51% because of the people I hired to work for me. Too bad I couldn't get a few of them to believe that. Sure woulda saved my back looking like a knife rack  By the way, I never had a hispanic employee back-stab me for his or her own gains. 

I never went out of my way either but as luck would have it, most of the applications I received were from Hispanics. 95% infact and I never found as much attitude nor heard "what I won't do" out of them. 


I always believed that you get what you pay for and that if you pay a respectable wage....... I understand exacty what you're saying and can empathisize but in the same breath, wages in this industry are far too low for my liking. That is considering I made more in 1985 as a line cook than most today. Wages have not kept up with any portion of any economy. I was just thinking today that based on what we expect or should expect out of the folks that handle food and what we are ingesting, we should pay more. I did my part and often paid dearly for it in more ways than one. Maybe it's a thought process that only I or very few posses but I am proud of it and am not afraid to express it. After all it is my personal opinion and it is expressed without intending anyone harm or disrespect.:look:

I couldn't agree more!


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

This is quite some post. I wonder if Culinary Huster is still out there or if he has given up on us because no one took side with him.

I think the main problem is that Culinary Hustler didn't do his due diligence and investigate the culinary scene before dropping big bucks on Culinary school. Like, washing dishes for a few months or plating salads before making his decision. Maybe he got suckered by a recruiting agent for one of those big schools--"when you graduate you're entitled to a good job and better salary then those who've worked the same position for years and know more about the job. Entitled? No, it's your right, after all you've paid your tuition, right?" 

Meh, poor schmuck, now we're stuck with the likes of him until they shape up or move off into real estate or tele-marketing 

O.T.O.H. I've never worked in the States, and have therefor never worked with Hispanics. However I've worked shoulder-to shoulder with many "Guest workers" from European countries, and have worked shoulder to shoulder with many Asians in kitchens around the world. I've had problems with the a-holes, and great working relationships with the non-a-holes. Doesn't matter what country they're from.

Wages? The source of all money comes from the customer. People are cheap, and when push comes to shove, they'd rather pay more for the waiter than the cook. But then, that's life. Who earns more, the diamond cutter, or the diamond ring salesman?


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## foleyisgood (Feb 28, 2008)

two words

Ferran Adria


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## logghib (May 4, 2005)

I don't agree with most of the original post but I do think that it's become a thing where it is hard to break into cooking (in a city especially) if you are over 20 and white, just because most restaurants in New York, Chicago, Boston, and beyond won't hire a white dishwasher. If you speak English (and god forbid you went to college) and you try to apply for a dishwashing job you'll get a lot of raised eyebrows. It seems the majority of people I know that hire kitchen staff as a part of their duties feel reluctant to hire a white dishwasher for fear of the person flaking out on a crucial night. 

So you're white and have no experience and you have to try to con your way into an actual cooking job. mexicans, Brazillians, Ecuadorians, these guys start out as busboys and dishwashers. They work their way up.

But then again - be a white line cook in an all Hispanic kitchen. Chef is probably white. Guess who gets first crack at sous chef? That's right - the guy who can actually call in the order without an impenetrably thick accent. The guy who the chef an yell at and get something other than a blank stare. Once you get your foot in the door, being white is a huge advantage as a line cook in terms of money and authority.

Of course none of my Hispanic staff would take the sous position anyway - they usually make more money working two hourly wage jobs than what I can afford to pay salary.

My staff is sorta mixed - most of my white staff I get off craig's list or from walk-in apps, most of the Hispanic staff come from referrals - the fish guy knows a guy, the dishwasher who's being promoted to prep has a cousin, that sort of thing.

It's an odd situation. It's a clash of people who are chasing achievement in a craft and people who want a reliable paycheck. (Of course that's not true either - most of the people who have worked under me to later open a restaurant are Hispanic - or they open up other business ventures)

Right now I've got three white guys aside from the two sous chefs. One's an oddball lifer line cook (smokes a lot of pot, shows up on time, runs a tight grill station), the hyper anal culinary grad who is slow as all **** but makes ridiculously good bread and can break down a pig, the experienced culinary graduate who is really solid on saute but needs an extraordinary amount of ego stroking to not go into *****-mode all night. But also I've got a hyperactive El Salvadorian who's 21 and needs to be handcuffed to his counter lest he follow the cute new busgirl into the dining room, the old Ecuadorian who does apartment maintenance during the day needs a banana at 7:30 every night or he gets grumpy because his knees hurt, the perpetually doped haitian dishwasher who listens to an ipod all night and is sometimes way too rough when cleaning emulsion blender attachments. (and don't even get me started about losing sausage grinder blades.)

It takes all kinds. everybody has their stuff. If you know kitchen people you'll find jobs easier. If you've been a dishwasher you'll find it easier to be a prep cook. And so on.

But whatever. OP - good luck, I guess. You sound like you've never cooked in a kitchen before, so your summation on why you think chefs hire Hispanic is really indicative of that experience level. It's not a glam job so you shouldn't have trouble finding somebody willing to let you burn their food for them.


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

I agree with the sentiments, but with profit margins as tight as they are, in most restaurants, it's hard to pay "decent" wages. It's a little easier for the chains with their bulk purchasing power. They could use some of the money they save on food and pay their cooks better, but they won't (and that's sad) but for many small independent restaurant owners paying their employees more means that they (the owners) will end up taking a very small paycheck if any at all. As someone who has worked for small independents and small chains I hate the fact that I can't pay people what I would really like to and then to heap insult on injury, offer them insurance which will probably take almost one full paycheck of theirs.


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

In my first place I didnt take a paycheck home for over 6 months after we opened. In fact I never even cashed my first one, I framed it and it was only for about $200. My Sous Chef was taking home $300/wk and I paid his insurance, ALL OF IT for his entire family just to get him to work for so little. Once we started to make a profit I gave him a monthly bonus of 3% of bottom line, great incentive and it paid off.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

While I cant speak for you or your experiences, I have not seen that.
I am color blind when it comes to applicants, and have many white dishwashers and former dishwashers that I have promoted.
The first thought that goes through my head after they've pulled a few shifts and performed very well, regardless of race, is "I think they have potential to move up".
Some continue performing well and get their shot.
Others show that their initial great performance was just that, a performance, and then their true colors show, no pun intended.
I don't expect a white guy to flake anymore than anyone else.
Youth might cause me to think that though, so young hispanic would make me think they were more likely to flake than an older caucasian.

But I digress.
I'll hire a white dishwasher tomorrow if I think they are the right choice.


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

In these times, some people (such as I) are looking for any work. I have worked for many years, only the first few of which were restaurant work. I've washed dishes, been a prep cook and a short order cook.

Then I worked 17 years at Hewlett Packard, starting as a production line operator and was laid off at the level of process operator. Not a high accomplishment, but it takes more skill than to be a short order cook.

In my most recent career I've been an HVAC service technician, maintaining and repairing heating and cooling equipment, and now I'm laid off. Even the most basic restaurant jobs are hard to come by right now, and how do I know that? Because I've checked the help wanted ads. I would take a basic restaurant job now, even if it would pay less than half of what I was making.

My point? Jobs in general are hard to come by. Also, there are a lot of people with a lot of experience willing to do more basic jobs than they were doing. Nobody is entitled to a job.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Strange this, hiring stuff. When it comes to hiring, I am pretty much colour blind, but I sure give the ol' resume a thorough combing over before I reach for the phone.

O.K. now, force sheilds up and I'll bear it all:

-Address. Don't care if they live in the slums, or in a high end district. What I'm looking for is *how far away* they live from the work place. If they list as having reliable transport and they live 2 bridges and 40 kms away, I'll pass. If they don't have relaible transport and live two bus routes and 3 transfers away, I'll pass. Illegal? Racist? I dunno. But I've had the scenerio far too many times where I see the blinking lights on my answering machine at 6 am, and heard the old " Ummm, I don't think I'llbe coming in to work, I've given this some serious though an its just too far away". schtick.

-Last job. If I'm looking for low end cold kitchen people and the applicant is overqualified, I'll pass. Again, don't know if this is illegal or racist, but I won't hire. Again, I've had the old "Um, today will be my last day becasue I just found a better job that pays $2.00 an hour more".

-Last job listed at a Union place. This I read very closely and read between the lines. If the applicant has been working f/t at a known Union shop for over 2 years, then I know I've got trouble coming. I'll pass. One too many times having some ex- union guy telling me it's a right to have a 15 minute break every 2 hours...

Colour blind, no, religion wise, I've got no probs with a Muslim guy or Jew telling me he can't handle pork. However my hiring methods maybe taken as racist or biased though. I don't care. Although I've never _actually seen _my butt, I like it the way it is and will go to great lengths to anticipate and avoid trouble.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

As a chef/owner, I definitely have "prejudices" when it comes to hiring personnel to work in MY restaurant.
Can you follow MY directions, that presupposes that you understand the language(s) "I" speak?
Will you report for work "on time", i.e. can you demonstrate your ablity to do so?
Do you meet the legal requirements to work in the State of California, i.e. there are NO problems filling out an I-9?
Do "I" think you can accomplish the task(s) I need accomplished, i.e. you successfully meet any written or practical exercises I may require?
Are you willing to do what "I" direct you to do?
Are you willing to accept what "I" think I can afford to pay you?
Are you willing to "fit-in" where "I" need help?
Does your "work experience" match the job I'm looking to fill?
Can you demonstrate that you "know" the skills required for the job?
Now, that being said, I really get "turned off" by:
Inappropriate dress
Tattoos, piercings, or "strange makeup"
An "attitude" that you "have to hire me" because I'm, take your pick (a "culinary school graduate"/white/black/Hispanic/East Indian/Native American/Gay/Straight/Veteran/Republican/Democrat/whatever
Any "attitude" thtat says "I know better than you what this place needs"...
It is MY business! I will run it the way "I" want to run it. It is my right to fail or succeed, it is NOT your right to force me to hire you nor to let you run MY business


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

I will give any job my best effort, and I will respect the owner of the place who, after all, pays my wages. I would have to say, though, that when things got better I would be looking for other work if my pay had not increased. I can understand the reservations of the owners. At the same time, I would be trying to prove myself in hopes for a higher level of responsibility, and in turn, higher pay. In that case, I wouldn't need to go back to my former work. I also understand that's not likely to happen with my limited experience in restaurant work. I don't blame chefs/owners if they are wary of hiring someone like me.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

OregonYeti, it is NOT the training, experience, culinary skills, or background. It IS your attitude and, for lack of anything better, desire to succeed.

Culinary school, apprenticeship, OJT, can all contribute and might "open doors", but when you step through that door, it all comes down to how you approach what needs to be done!

If you would rather not be judged on performance, join a union


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

I understand, for sure  You need someone to do the job without anybody having to hold their hand while they do it. And if they earn their way forward, they will have earned it by exceeding expectations.


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## ras1187 (Oct 3, 2006)

This is very interesting as I generally think of kitchen as being primarily hispanic dominated. No it is not the Executive or Sous that is hispanic, but it is the day-to-day people that keep the kitchen running that are hispanic. The prep cooks, line cooks, dishwashers, and anybody else have been hispanic in all the places I worked for. Why is this? I wish i knew the answer.

Is it racial prejudice? I'm not sure. I think it has more to do with the strong work ethic that all of these hard working people have been brought up with from the early years in their native country as opposed to our "embrace mediocrity" attitude here in the states. Cultural issue perhaps?

As the consensus of everybody here. I would hire the person that works hardest and complains the least, regardless of what background he/she may have.


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## unichef (Aug 14, 2000)

.... and if CulinaryHustler was posting this 100 years ago it would have been the Irish, or if posting in England it would be Middle Eastern... etc..

The restaurant industry was diverse way before diversity became politically correct. We hire and promote those who show up for work and work hard. 

I remember one of my first jobs as executive chef in a major hotel. I tried to hire dishwashers who I thought were like me, looking to move up in the industry and become the next executive. I found myself scrubbing pots and pans on Christmas Eve.


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## rambo (Sep 8, 2008)

Bless you, Chef Ed. For all my limited access to the inside world of professional kitchens, although I've worked in a few, I have to say that pro cooks slaughter grammer and spelling wholesale far beyond beef and pork. Our fellow cook from the nation's armed forces is no different. Racist, who knows? However, stones should not be thrown toward people that speak two languages and often hold two jobs to your one and one. Or one and none. I've never served, but I've put out a lot of plates, and the bottom line is who can make those plates look and taste the best for the lowest dollar an hour. I'll be willing to bet there's a ton of hispanic people that can cook better than me that have never set foot in a pro kitchen. If you think you're a better cook b/c the military told you food must be stored in a certain fashion.... You should pursue another career. If I got the slightest incling you were as racist as you have portrayed yourself, there is no way you'd be allowed in my kitchen. We form as a team every day. Your performance, not your race, determines your salary. Don't ever forget what this country is about. Cook because you love it, not because it will pad your bank account. 

Poor S.O.B.
but still learning


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## culinaryhustler (Apr 24, 2009)

Before landing the position that I have now, I was desperate to get a start cooking somewhere regardless of salary. I was determine to just get started gaining experience. Well, I remember going into a hospitality staffing agency. The lady there told me young man these positions are more often than not temporary positions and the employers are seeking quick individuals who are just desperate for a job and willing to take whatever wage given. They are basically gonna work you hard and pay you less and I don't think they would like for me to send a young educated man like yourself to them. They would feel guilty. They would rather have an older hispanic man they can work hard and pay less. When people say things like that how do I go about staying positive. This has nothing to do with racism because I am not at all mad at the hispanic men fighting to make a living. I am more so mad at those individuals shutting opportunities for those such as myself who are just seeking a start somewhere and that start is constantly given to more often than not hispanics. Could it be possible that hispanics are such hard working people that employers fear hiring anybody else? That is basically my initial question in a nutshell.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

Sounds like you took one person's opinion as fact.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Culinary H., 

They say that old Cops and old Priests are some of the world's most cynical bast*rds around, and I figure old Chefs should be in that list too.

Staffing agencies make their money in various ways, usually by charging the employer. A big-wig "Chef" earns higher, and therefore the agency earns more. The lower you go down the list, the less money there is to be made for the agency. 

Plainly (and somewhat cynically) said, you are not attractive to that particular agency.

Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying here. Pi** on the agency and get your foot in the kitchen door........


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## rat (Mar 2, 2006)

I also think it is a matter of attitude than race. In my crew I have a guy from Guatemala, he speaks little English but can follow a recipe and can run circles around most people in the kitchen in terms of prep and production. I got him as a prep guy because he wanted out of the dish pit and wanted to learn pastry. He shows up every day on time, does not fool around and is completely dependable. He now is the second highest paid employee in my department and is worth every cent. He also works 2 other jobs so he goes 7 days a week from 6 am to 10 pm, I wish I had that stamina.
On a side note now I know a little French, German and Spanish.

I wish I could say the same about the last 2 CIA graduates I hired, one quit after a saturday night when it was clean up time. She told me she did not spend all that money to mop a floor, which is funny because I am the chef and always scrub the floor myself every night when I close. The other missed 10 days of work in 2 months and quit when I refused to give her off a busy saturday night when she gave no notice she needed it to go to a concert. The sense of entitlement many new graduates show is a shocker. I think the first semester should be spent doing dishes and learning to clean a kitchen. Maybe I am old school but I still clean up my messes, respect the dishwashers and still think I am not above any job that needs to be done.


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

I had an interview today for my line of work.

I asked "What would you consider a model employee?"

The top boss said "Someone who shows up on time all the time and does what is needed, whether it be replacing a compressor or taking out the garbage".

We just need to show that we will do what is needed to make things work. It's really unfortunate if an employment agency is getting in the way of a good person being hired.


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

I am not a pro chef, so I will say my bit and then shut up. I am a college professor, and thus can perhaps comment on this issue of "entitlement" among young-ish upper-middle class Americans.

It is usual in my profession to blame the high schools. High schools blame the government, the parents, and the elementary schools. The elementary schools blame the government, the parents, and the academic education establishment. However, every sane analysis suggests that at every level, the U.S. educational system, in every corner, is primarily successful at teaching self-esteem. Unfortunately, the students do not, it appears, have what I for one would call deep self-esteem: they are very fragile, and because they have never been challenged, they do not have the maturity to handle any form of criticism. If they receive grades lower than they expect, if they are not rewarded for whatever low level of effort they choose to put in, they respond by flailing at the teacher, boss, system, etc. This is what small children do when told they can't do something, in case you don't recognize it.

I can boil it all down very simply.

A number of statistical studies have addressed the following basic question: how much effort do you put into your schoolwork, and what grade do you deserve? Answer: I put in a huge amount of effort and therefore I deserve an A. Details: 1-3 hours per week on a given course is "a huge amount," and that time is normally "multi-tasked," meaning that the student is also watching TV and text-messaging his/her friends. Crucial point: "a huge amount of effort" means what you chefs would call zero.

Second, even more important point, and the one nobody ever notices:

_If I work very hard, in my own estimation, I deserve to be rewarded maximally._

What if you're stupid? What if you're untalented? What if you really do work like a dog but produce terrible results? These things are impossible in the students' world. They accept that others might be limited in these ways, but they are not: they can do anything they want to, and doing it -- "living their dreams" -- should require them to devote a pretty small fraction of their time and effort. Anyone who disagrees is out to get them, unfair, prejudiced, whatever.

It is no surprise to me that students who choose to attend famous and expensive culinary schools tend to be like this. The student decides his or her dream is to be a chef, so he or she pays the bucks, sits through the classes, gets patted on the head, and expects the chef at the new restaurant to applaud.

Ultimately, unfortunately, this has very little to do with the culinary profession. It has happened and will continue to happen in every profession that attracts attention as a cool thing, which is why you didn't get these people so much 20 years ago. Unfortunately, as well, the various things that probably would go a long way toward fixing these problems would require such a total overhaul of the American education system, from nursery school to advanced graduate and professional schools, that it will never happen consistently or coherently.


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## even stephen (Oct 10, 2005)

Best response yet.....there's going to be ditch diggers and there's going to
be rocket scientists. A street sweeper needs to be just as proud of what he does as a top notch lawyer or banker. He also needs to have a firm grasp on reality, i.e., who he is, what he does, and his rate of compensation.
A sense of reality is learned at home. Whether you call it "a sense of entitlement" or "lack of accountability", its becoming worse and worse in kitchens everywhere.


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Chris:'
Very well said. I would like to add something. I in a large part blame the schools. They paint visions of sugarplums in the kids heads. They have to justify their high fees somehow.. 
I graduated 2 culinary arts schools in the 50s and 60s they gave me the basics true , but I learned 50 times more working in different positions over the years. I was lucky I learned 50 ways how to to same dish and under 50 different circumstances via 50 different chefs. eaven forbid one of these students goes out and cant find a slotted spoon in the kitchen like the one in school, they are then lost.:lol:
. You do not need a BS or AAS to become a good cook or Great chef, in fact 80 of the oldtimers didn't. You have to pay your dues and that includes cleaning and mopping the floor, thats the job take it or leave it.


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## culinaryhustler (Apr 24, 2009)

Your responses to this thread have been great. If the stereotype of culinary school graduates having that sense of entitlement is something many employers believe, then would you believe that culinary school is a waste of time and money? I think that one of the main reasons why individuals attend culinary school is to get the upper hand amongst others. Same reason why people attend college. What would it say about America if non-college graduates are seeing six figured salaries and college graduates are perceived to have a wrong sense of entitlement and can't even come close to finding a job. It seems that is exactly what is happening in the culinary profession. Opportunities are given to the non culinary graduate commonly a hispanic male than a culinary graduate. You do not find many non hispanic individuals working in the kitchen that do not have a culinary education but you will find plenty of hispanics who have climbed up in the brigade system without a culinary education. Do you blame the schools for painting false images in the mind of students? Do you blame the student who buys into the false images and therefore has a wrong sense of entitlement? Do you blame the employer for fear of hiring these culinary graduates that they have to go to school to TRY to prove themselves worthy? I really don't know but I do know that it is hurting those individuals who desperately want the opportunity to learn and grow that are culinary graduates.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

You are still generalizing, and still insist on throwing race into the equation.

As stated by others, the "entitled graduate" syndrome is held by many graduates, but not all.
It's not a general perception, but one that's worth noting.
I'll hire the candidate most likely to fill the role I need filling.
Sometimes it's someone with a culinary education, sometimes not.
And again, race never plays a factor.

Let it go.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Culinary H:

Look, the mandate of culinary schools is twofold: To teach the curriculum and to make a profit. The mandate of a resaurant is twofold: To put out a consistant product and to make a profit,

At a restaurant you may or may not learn the right way of doing things. If it is profitable to teach a cook how to braise a potroast , great. OTOH, if it is profitable to teach them how to make an omelette on the flat-top, or to mark off 20 steaks and nuke or bake them to order, then they will do it. One thing for certain, if you can't move fast enough, or get along with the others, out you go.

At the school you may or may not learn how to move quickly. If you learn how to cut julienne vegetables for soup garnish, and can make a decent product, you get your marks, doesn't really matter if you spent 5 minutes or 20 minutes, if the counter is clean or a pig-stye. One thing for certain, if you don't learn the material, pass the tests, out you go.

This is N. America. For any post secondary education you need Gr. 12--doesn't matter where you got it. There are standardized tests, and it is generally recognized that the curriculum is the same all around the country, right? Culinary schools answer to no one--no standarized tests, some schools have a course syllabus of 9 mths, some 24 mths. Everyone has different text books, different methods, different entry requirements. A freakin nightmare. One culinary school here has no deepfryers or flat tops, graduates don't know how to clean or use them if and when they go out to an employer . Another one--a very large American college co-erces the students to buy their textbooks. Ingredient quantitites are given in US measurements--some in volume, some in weight. Problem is, the US is the only country left in the world using the Imperial system, and the school is in Vancouver, Canada. Who are the students? Canucks and foriegners--no US students. Freakin nightmare. 

Most Chefs are not impressed at all about culinary schools. Before they hire, they usually put out an "acid test". It's simple enough: Give the applicant a list of tasks that would normally occur and watch them perform. Some culinary grads make it, some don't. Some "school of hard knocks" grads make it, some don't.

The one thing ALL Chefs look for is the ability to get along. LIke any sports coach, no one wants a prima-donna. It's a team game, cooking, you gotta get along in the kitchen. What you do on your own time is your business.


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## r hill (Jul 2, 2009)

What the **** does where you come from have to do how well you cook?


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## bughut (Aug 18, 2007)

Surely it doesnt come down to who you are, but what you can persuade me you can do.
I've hired ex-army "chefs" who dont get their hands wet. ie. they dont "muck in" at clear -up. (small outfit) They and their egos dont last long.

Here in Scotland, for hispanic, read Pole. There is a trend towards outright hostility towards Polish workers. "They're taking our jobs"etc. But I and many others take on _workers _full stop. The poles have a terrific work ethic that many of the local potentials are sorely lacking.

If it came down to a choice between and ethnic minority and a local the winner would be the one who impressed. But there will always be the ones who need someone or something else to blame for their shortcomings and shout racism.


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

Very interesting. I think it points more to human nature than ethnicity. It's everywhere and only changes by geography!


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## greyeaglem (Apr 17, 2006)

I have also noted the trend toward hiring hispanics, but I think it's just another facet of the buddy system. If you have a kitchen that keeps staff long term, you will notice they're all friends. You hire a guy that turns out to be good, and when you need another employee you ask if he knows of anyone. It's really hard to get work in any kitchen if you don't know anyone already working there. Hispanics have a tight community and large families as a rule. If one hispanic guy gets a job in a kitchen and does a good job, pretty soon his brothers, cousins, sister-in-law and everybody else is working there. You only notice it more because you can see that they're all related or at least friends. You see a bunch of white guys in a kitchen and the relationship between them isn't as apparent. My advice is to find where the local restaurant employee crowd hangs out and then go there. Strike up a conversation with some of them (they're all more than willing to talk food, especially if you ask questions about what they do.) Pretty soon you're "in" and you might have a chance at a job next time there's an opening where they work. Restaurant workers prefer to have a crew of people they know rather than strangers to work with because the job is fast-paced and often stressful, so everyone has to interact well together.


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## culinaryartiste (Jul 4, 2009)

Some of the friends I know in Texas recently have begun finding positions within the restaurant kitchen. They've told me they credit their hire to their cities cracking down on employees who don't have the legal right to work. Their cities have begun forcing restaurants to run back social security numbers of their employees to make sure they are legit. My friends right now are being trained by illegal hispanic immigrants who they say are a **** of a cook but don't have the legal right to work. A lot of them are bitter about giving up their positions to my friends knowing that their time is ending. My friends have stated they feel bad but all in all it's opening up opportunities for them. It's giving those who have the legal right to work in a kitchen the right to work and have their culinary careers grow. I agree with that totally and can only hope more states take on this approach to really regulate illegal employment policies.


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

I am all for having only legal workers. If someone is a really good cook or whatever, I respect that for sure, but if they are not here legally, it shouldn't be at the expense of a legal worker's job. Especially in these lean times. 

I also want to make this clear . . . there are many, many legal Hispanic workers who are patriotic Americans, plus, many of them have USA ancestry that goes back 200 years. Much of the southwest USA was ruled by Spain before it became part of the USA. I just want to make clear that many Hispanics here are every bit as (USA) American as anyone else. I think that those who are not should go the legal route or not work here.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

MMmmmmmm

Ultimately, it's the diner who's paying--for the food, for the salaries. You can take action against the illegals, and you can take action against the employers hiring them, but if you don't figure the diner in on the equation, this mess will never end......


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

Yes, I deserved that reminder from a pro. It's easy for me to say stuff when I'm not in the biz. I hope some of what I said made sense.


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

Going back years ago Baseball was all White. Then they broke the barrier and Blacks and whites were playing together. Then the white people said, Hey the Black people are taking all of our jobs. Years went by and the Latinos came into Baseball, a few years went by and the Black people said, hey the Latinos are taking our jobs. I figure its about time the Latinos will say hey the Japenese are taking all of our jobs..........I don't know about anyone else, I hire talent, I don't care what nationality or color it comes in..............................Bill :roll::smiles:


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## culinaryartiste (Jul 4, 2009)

I think this is a really hot topic for a thread.

I'm not here to defend Hustler at all but I can understand why he or she is bitter. If I served this country protecting the freedom of Americans, I didn't serve to have someone have the freedom to hop over the fence and deny me of a job opportunity. I think I would be pissed too. People on this thread speak about hiring who ever is qualified regardless of race. Part of the qualification process is to hire only those who have the legal right to work. Do you really screen your employees to ensure their social security numbers register or do you play a blind eye because you already know the possibility that it won't? Not to encourage stereotyping but we would be lying to ourselves if we were to not know which applicant is more than likely illegal.


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

Culinary Hustler never said anything about illegal aliens, only about Hispanic


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

The schools are not a waste of money, It' the people that go to them who are wasting their money with their "Oh I went to such and such school so I am better' Grow up people..


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## culinaryhustler (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm sorry I should of clarified from the get-go. When I refer to Hispanics I should of clarified I was pin pointing the illegal Hispanics. I thought it was obvious within my context. If they were Americans, I would of said Latino Americans. Putting together the word Hispanic and kitchen should knowingly have you assume I was speaking about the illegals. So now I know why you guys accuse me of racism. Sorry I should of clarified. I think there are lots of employers who knowingly hire ILLEGAL Hispanics. CHINESE KITCHENS FOR INSTANCE. Restaurant kitchens are one of the easiest most common places an illegal Hispanic can find easy work. My question from the get-go in simple terms was why is this? Why does our industry promote the hiring of illegal aliens? Like Artiste was saying if you have any common sense you would kind of know who appears illegal. Why are employers playing the blind eye? Back to my initial questions now that things have been clarified. Is it ego? Do you hire these illegal Hispanics because you know as long as they stay illegal they won't get ahead of you? Is it because they work hard for you for cheap? Is it because you are the American and you get a sense of dominance and authority with them? Why do Restaurant owners/Chefs deny opportunities to those Americans who DO have the legal right to work? Why do they hire a Mexican who can barely speak a lick of English who is obviously illegal? Why do they hire him to wash dishes instead of maybe a 17 year old who just wants to see how it's like in a restaurant kitchen? Why do they hire an old gray haired illegal Mexican to prep vegetables for your kitchen instead of a culinary student looking to just get a start? WHY? Hire those who are qualified. Part of qualification is the legal right to work.

For the record Artiste I am a He


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

Thanks for the clarification.
Your rant has even less validity than it did before.


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

What the heck???? That's BS.


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

First of all, when I owned my place in Austin, TX I did a background check on everyone and never hired an ILLEGAL but did have a couple of prep guys and a dishwasher who didnt speak a work of english and even though they lived in the US. They were from Honduras but you wouldnt be able to tell from looking at them as their skin color was pretty white. 
Second, now that I have read this going back to the original thread you have truly confirmed you are an idiot and there isnt any help for you. 
Some advice would be to find a new line of work outside of the service industry in general, there are lots of Hispanics, Latin Americans and others that work hard and do a good job despite the color of their skin and where they come from.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Why, why, why?

1) People are cheap. They don't want to pay more for food than they have to. A restaurant has to make money, so they hire whoever will stoop low enough for minimum wage

2) See #1, and then: A kid fresh out of Gr. 12 can make more money working construction, working a factory floor, or lifeguarding then he/she can being a "Drop Chef" (guy who drops the fryer bsket down) or an "underwater cermaics technician". Besides, the hours suck. Granted, you need "connections" to get a job that pays better than minimum wage when you have "0" experience a fresh high-school garduate, but heck, you've lived 18 yrs in the country, so you have connections. A new immigrant doesn't.

Don't believe me? Ask any restaurant owner.  After you get bitten in the butt 8 times by the same dog, you learn to avoid that dog. No one wants to hire a local kid for a dishwasher because the odds are 100:1 that the kid won't make it past the first 3 days.

You bitter and racist about these facts? Learn to deal with it. Just about everyone on this board has sob-stories abut local workers. The kind who go screaming to the shop steward about "illegal firing" after getting caught red-handed with their hands in the till, the kind who go whinging to the labour board that you won't hire them because they've got half a fishing tackle box stuck in their face or ink all over their bodies, the kind who go sobbing to the worker's comp looking for compensation because they've got an ingrown toenail. I'm not kidding here, you want the documentiation on that one, I'll be happy to fax it to you. 

Hospitality industry pays crap because the customers don't want to pay for the labour. No employer wants to take a chance on someone who'll run off within a week for a job that pays $2.00 an hour more. Biten in th butt once too many times 

Now, I'm a white guy, whiter than sour cream, and the furthest south I've been in this continent is Seattle, WA. It is my understanding that the word "Hispanic" refers to anyone who claims Spanish as their mother tongue. Nothing to do with non-American or illegal. Don't speak it, but I understand tht Spanish is a fairly popular language.... 

Of course, I could be wrong, what would a sour-cream white guy from Vancouver know about that?


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## gunnar (Apr 3, 2008)

this thread should have been shut down 61 replies ago and some 2100 views. seriously, is this guy even around anymore?


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## bubba (Dec 10, 2008)

As jobs get scarcer and more people get laid off you're going to see and hear more of this subject. Plant closings, lack of jobs and a sour economy tend to make people bitter and hostile. Although I agree illegals need to be dealt with rather than hired, race has nothing to do with it. The Govt approach to the issue is to mostly ignore it and hope it goes away although the Governor of My state went beyond the pale by wanting to give illegals legal driving privileges.


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Why do they hire him to wash dishes instead of maybe a 17 year old who just wants to see how it's like in a restaurant kitchen? Why do they hire an old gray haired illegal Mexican to prep vegetables for your kitchen instead of a culinary student looking to just get a start? WHY? Hire those who are qualified. Part of qualification is the legal right to work.

Why? Because they are the only ones who want to work some of the jobs. Example a past post mentioned a female grad of CIA who when the chef asked her to sweep said''I didnt go to CIA to sweep floor'' I am discrimanating I guess because I wont hire most 17 year old American guys. It has been my experience that they are lazy, dont want to work and are half the time high on something. About 2years ago I hired 6 young American cooks, sent them for drug test . 5 failed. I least these illegals as you call them want to work and are not on welfare.


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## left4bread (May 8, 2009)

Hi Gunnar. I agree, it's a trolling topic.
I don't like to feed trolls, but it seems like the troll is being force fed at this point.
Y'know, like a goose. Mmmmmm... troll liver...
Which makes it okay. ... or at least amusing.
First dibs on the liver! (I'll share)

I do appreciate the line of conversation that was opened, though.

_edit: messed up on the singular "goose", need to go back to South America to learn proper English I guess... (ahem.., they speak their second language better than some of us Northern Americans speak our first) /joke_


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## even stephen (Oct 10, 2005)

I think the math speaks for itself......at least 40% of kitchen staff in the southeastern larger cities in the U. S. of A. are hispanic,
mostly Mexican, or from the surrounding countries below it. For whatever reason...it works out. Let us not forget....even though undocumented, they
do supply papers, not real, but papers....employers and employees pay into social security, federal, and sometimes state taxes. No one ever asks where that money goes, and employers never recieve a refund because the documents don't match up...just a little form asking for new papers. Now I 
may not think its right, but, our country would be crippled without undocumented workers....produce, construction, F&B, Poultry, etc....plain truth is, there's no answer or solution.....it will change as years pass, but, we will always need them here.....


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Oh, no, the O.P. is still around, last posted on the 17th of July.

Now, this may be a wierd analogy, but compare the problem of illegals in the workforce to the problem of prostition:

For centuries, the common tactic was to focus on the hooker, jail, fines, etc. Never worked. Some counties just gave up and made it legal, mainly because once legal it was easier to control, but mainly because once it was legal, they could get taxes. The smarter thing to do--if you want to control or get rid of prostitution, is not to focus on the hooker, but the john. Fine the dude, jail him, publicly embarass him, and you have some modicum of control. Less market demand, less product--or less hookers. But then again no society has ever eradicated the problem of prostitution

Illegals come here to find work. Can't blame them really. And they find the work no one else wants to do. Hospitality is a poorly paid business. Too much competition, customers expect and demand cheap, and cheap comes with a price.

So for people like Culinary Hustler, you now can figure out the whole deal. Learn to live with it and deal with it. Better learn to get along with everyone in the kitchen--or you'll never last in a kitchen.


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