# THE BOOK WISH LIST



## isaac (Jun 9, 2001)

ok guys, here is my wish list. anyone have these books and like them or dont like them? let me know and feel free to suggest any other names as well. i would like to keep the books about bread if possible.

1- bread builders
2- crust and crumb
3- la brea bakery
4- ultimate breads
5- the enchanted broccoli forrest cook book (i heard there was a part of bread troublrshooting)
6- the new international confectioner (i am having problems getting this book)


i have: 
1- speical and decoritive breads part one and two
2- the vilage baker
3-artisan baking across america
4- bread alone.
5- flat breads and flavors 


i would like books that can teach me rather then just a book with all recipes (if that makes since)

feel free to suggest

thanks


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## svadhisthana (May 6, 2001)

Isaac,
I have "The Enchanted Broccoli Forrest Cookbook". I really like it. They have recently come out with an updated version of it that contains color photographs (something I look for in cookbooks). The section covering bread teaches the basics of using a sponge and has notes on making variations in bread recipes. I enjoy Katzen's laid back aproach and personal illustrations. The other recipes in the cookbook are nice as well, and I find them simple to put together. My 4 year old (with a little help from me  ) can prepare a few of the dishes.

The La Brea cookbook isn't one I own, but I recently checked it out from the local library. I think it is a fabulous resource. The bread recipes start with her 14 day white starter and each one ranges in a 1 to 3 day period for completion. She is very detailed in her instructions. It's a wonderful book especially if you have never used a starer before. The photographs (with the exception of the inside cover) are black and white. I prefer color throughout, but that's me  .

I currently am reading Bernard Clayton's "New Complete Book of Breads". It is fabulous. It covers a wide range of bread recipes and includes instructions for preparation with a food processor, hand mixer, and stand mixer. He cover's basic equipment for baking and in later chapters goes over instructions for building an adobe oven. The recipes even include treats for dogs, and he has a chapter on troubleshooting.

I also have "The Bread Bible" by Beth Hensperger. This book contains 300 of her favorite recipes. They include breads, waffles, and pastries. She covers "the art and science of bread making" and "essential methods and techniques".

"No Knead to Knead" by Suzanne Dunaway is an intersting read. It throws everything you've learned about "proper" breadmaking out the window. I have made the fougasse and really liked it.

If I were you I'd check the customer reviews on amazon for each of the books you are interested in and also check them out (if possible) from your local library first to see if you like them. With some cookbooks, even if the recipes are good the way they are written can effect how useful they are to you. I hope I've helped, and not bored you to death.... 

[ August 05, 2001: Message edited by: Svadhisthana ]


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## isaac (Jun 9, 2001)

thanks guys.

i try to stay away from books that jus have recipes. recipes are a dime a dozen. i love technique books and the "how to" books and i love the science of cooking books as long as it is not over my head. 

iza: yes, the ultmate bread book is dfinitly on my list


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## spoons (Nov 10, 2000)

Well, I guess I am partial to "Crust & Crumb" because the author was my instructor at The California Culinary Academy. A James Beard Awarded book. The book is very easy to read and easy to follow. He teaches very well in the book. Hope that helps.


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

You know Isaac it might better for you, and me, to do as Kyle suggest. Start with a beginner bread book: Ultimate Bread. I'm still waiting for my copy. 

Starting at the begining will surely help you, and me, to understand the different steps of bread making and what is involve in each of those step. So in the end we will have a better understanding of the whole process.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Huh?  I would love to take credit for such sage advice but I don't have that book, yet 

I would have to vote for Crust & Crumb. I think it is a very informativ, approachable book. It does not speak down to you, but rather just over your head. I think it helps the learning process if you have to strain a little to grasp the subject matter. I really like his book.

[ August 06, 2001: Message edited by: KyleW ]


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## thebighat (Feb 21, 2001)

And my vote gotes to Crust and Crumb too. "Fifty master formulas for serious bread baker" How can you go wrong? And even though I've never looked at some of the other books mentioned, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that they use cups, not lbs and ozs, and to me, a serious professional bread baker, that's not the way to go. Baking is a science, not an art, and why waste time even thinking about, do I dip and sweep, or spoon and sweep? Get a scale, get a calculator, learn baker's percentages, get some salt, flour, yeast and water and go nuts. Later on, when you can bake a loaf of bread, get the other books for their creative ideas.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Well, as you all know, I'm *very* partial to Nancy Silverton. Thus, I have to go with Breads from the La Brea Bakery.

Bread builders is another great choice for the technical side of things.

Also, World Sourdoughs from Antiquity

Read customer reviews right here


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

I knew I liked you TBH


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Sorry Kyle I thought it was you who recommanded Ultimate Bread. Who was it then TBH? Kimmie?


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## angrychef (Jan 15, 2001)

I just got Crust and Crumb and I love it. The recipes in baker's percentages really help when you need to compare hydration and other ingredients in different breads. I find myself reading it more than Bread Alone. I would also like to get Silverton's and Ortiz's bread book.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

It's Kokopuffs! Click here and scroll down the page

I totally agree with *thebighat* when he says get a scale, get a calculator, learn baker's percentages, get some salt, flour, yeast and water and go nuts.



[ August 06, 2001: Message edited by: Kimmie ]


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Credit shall then be given to Koko for this great suggestion.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Beware of this one:

*«The Bread Book»* is so comprehensive and the recipes so tempting that it's unfortunate to note that it is compromised by inaccurate quantity conversions and a repeated typographical glitch that obscures ingredient requirements in several recipes. Collister states that a cup of flour (no distinction is made among types) equals four ounces rather than about five, the standard equivalent for white flours. Thus, for example, 6 cups of white bread flour is stated as equivalent to 680 grams, while actual measurement shows it to weigh 822 grams--a difference of about 5 ounces. The cup or gram measure as given is, therefore, unreliable!


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## thebighat (Feb 21, 2001)

I was looking at the professional section of the Village Baker last night and tossed it on the floor in disgust. Too bad, because as a wannabe graphic designer I think that book is very well done, but only some of the formulas are given in percentages. Too bad they didn't spend a little more time and money on editing. They do give a little disclaimer about the formulas,though, and he even says some of the breads only got tested once. I went looking for a book last night called Country Breads of the World, but couldn't find it. Anyone familiar?


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Here it is at amazon.com

It's from the same author as The Bread Book: Linda Collister. Still interested?


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## risa (May 11, 2001)

I'm with Svad. I like Clayton's New Complete Book of Breads. This was the very first bread book I ever bought and I learned to make bread from this book. It is mostly recipes and definitely does not go in depth into the why's. However, the recipes are good. I've tried about 10% of the recipes (about 30 or so) in there and they've all turned out well except during my impatient days. Most everyone on ChefTalk has been mostly interested in artisanal or sourdough breads and that is just a chapter in Clayton's book. I started the cooked potato starter from this book last night. No action so far, but it's still early I figure. 

I think I'll buy Crust and Crumb soon. I'm just waiting for my scale to arrive and string out all these new purchases. I think Peter Reinhart should start paying ChefTalk some commission


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## thebighat (Feb 21, 2001)

I have an old copy of Clayton's Breads of France and have used that a lot, mainly in the past now. If you look at the pictures in the rolls section of the Complete Book, the hedgehog and the others, I made the rolls the artist used as models. She came into the bakery I was working at and asked and we said sure.


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

What scale did you decide on Risa ? 

I forgot to tell you, I was given a copy of The Bread Bible, you were right Risa, and you too Svadhisthana, it is a very nice book, lots of information and tips. It covers every kind of bread. 

I made the focaccia, added fresh herbs and fleur de sel,insterad of the olive pesto. It was very good, disappeared so fast I couldn't believe it. 

I can't wait to try another recipe, anything in particular you would both recommend ?


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Here's one more for the mix, Amy's Bread by Amy Scherber. She owns 2 bakeries here in Gotham City. Oddly enough, they are called Amy's Bread as well. The book is a nice mix of teaching and really cool recipes.

[ August 10, 2001: Message edited by: KyleW ]


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## risa (May 11, 2001)

Darn was in middle of a long post and I lost it! Here goes again but I'll keep it short.

I got the latest model Salter]Salter[/URL]. Isn't it so very sleek and pretty? I think it's the one that BritCook or Pompeyams suggested.

I got rave reviews from the very simple 100% Whole Wheat Bread (I think that's the one anyway) recipe in Bread Bible. One friend I gave it to thought that she'd have a little taste on her drive home. She ate just over half of the very large round loaf by the time she got home! I will forever love that friend.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Whoa Risa,

This is a really beautiful scale. BTW, thanks for the link.


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Wow that is a gorgeously designed object. So sleek. Great choice Risa. 

Thanks for the tip, I’ll try the whole wheat bread, now that the weather cooled down a bit, I’ll head back to the kitchen.


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## isaac (Jun 9, 2001)

hey guys.... i got two books.. one called WORLD SOURDOUGHS FROM ANTIQUITY. not a bad book so far. then i got the new international confeectioner... awesome book (THANK YOU TBH!!!!!!!!!!!!!)


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## isaac (Jun 9, 2001)

hey guys.... i got two books.. one called WORLD SOURDOUGHS FROM ANTIQUITY. not a bad book so far. then i got the new international confeectioner... awesome book (THANK YOU TBH!!!!!!!!!!!!!)


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Risa:
I have four years of college chemistry and my only criticism of your new scale is its resolution: 1/4 oz! I. E. 7 grams, approx 1 - 2 tablespoons of flour equivalent. That difference can affect the outcome of a loaf of bread IMHO.

My preference is to go with the scale having resolution of 2 grams.

So, please let me know how your breadmaking turns out using that scale. I'm really curious. You can email me personally using the address listed in my profile.


[ August 13, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]


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## thebighat (Feb 21, 2001)

Even 400-dollar baker's scales have a resolution of 1/4 oz. If you need to go smaller you just have to weigh that 1/4 oz, then get a small palette knife and start dividing. I also have a grain scale used for handloading bullets and that will go down to 1/400 oz.


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

TBH:
I also do handloading and bulletcasting, so therefore own a grain scale. I just don't know due to lack of experience if 1/4 oz is adequate resolution for - let's say - 2 pounds of dough.

I seems that two scales are necessary, one is inadequate: one for flour (in oz or units of 100g) and the other for salt and yeast (in grams).

[ August 13, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Every scale I saw, and I've look at quite a few lately, has a resolution of 1/4 oz. In one store I was told it is the best that is available. To get amore precise scale I was told to get either a jewelry or a pharmacy scale. A bit too expensive for my budget.


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

[ August 13, 2001: Message edited by: Iza ]


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

For some reason I just can't imagine having 2 scales. If I am measuring less than 1/4 ounce I use dry measure, as with yeast and salt. As for the variance when measuring flour, I tend to reserve about 1/2 cup of the amount called for. I rely on my eye and the feel ( both senses still in the neophyte stage) of the dough to tell me if it's right. This way I can add it in as needed and use the smallest amount required. I can always add more but it is hard as **** to take it out


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## lobster (Aug 11, 2000)

Isaac -
Do you have the ISBN for 'new international confectioner'? I attempted a book search, but came up with zero..?


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## risa (May 11, 2001)

1/4 oz was the most precise scale I could find for my budget, but in any case, I've always been pretty terrible about measuring accurately, especially when making bread. I think it's probably because of the different kinds of flour, but I rarely use the same amount specified in a recipe. I made an Oatmeal Potato Bread (from Bread Bible) this weekend and I think I used a full 2 cups less of flour. But then again, I lost track as I was dumping cup fulls in the bowl as the dough hook was going. I'm rather absent-minded and I often lose track after anything over 2 cups. (I didn't have my scale yet at the time.) The bread turned out very well, nice texture although I underbaked a little, chewy crust and excellent flavour. I'm not a huge bread eater but I ate a whole loaf (with a little help from my dog) and am halfway through the 2nd loaf.

BTW: I like the new mixer very much. I missed kneading by hand a little, but I didn't miss the pain in my wrists. I also could never develop the gluten enough when I was doing everything by hand.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

In "Amy's Bread" She says 1/4 oz. resolution is fine for any recipe in the book. BTW, I just bought a Salter Aquatronic electronic scale. Very cool! It replaces an EKS scale that I had begun to doubt. It didn't come with the fancy bowl though  It does have a handy fluid ounce function though. It saves you from having to remember that 20 oz is 1 lb 4 oz.


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## thebighat (Feb 21, 2001)

It's problematic whether the New International Confectioner even has an ISBN. I can't find one on my remaining copy. The publisher is Virtue & Company, Limited, 25 Breakfield, Coulsdon, Surrey CR32UE, whatever all that means. There's a reference in most libraries called Books in Print, Barnes and Noble has it in their stores. Good luck finding a copy.


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## risa (May 11, 2001)

Isaac: There's a single used copy of New International Confectioner in www.bn.com's Out of Print section. It's $337.50!!

There's another one at Amazon.com for $250.

Both of them are the 4th edition from 1979.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Isaac,

Try e-bay!!!

Risa,

If you have an instant read thermometer, use it. Your bread should be 200 degrees F when cooked.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Somebody stop me! I just bought Artisan Baking Across America and Brother Juniper's Bread Book.


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## thebighat (Feb 21, 2001)

$337.50!!!! That's unbelievable. I paid 59.50 for one in 1979 and someone gave me one in really good condition a few months ago. I brought it into class one day during chocolates and sugar and the instructor winked knowingly and said, is this the edition with all the mistakes? How would I know? It is THE best bedtime reading, after The Lord of The Rings.


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## thebighat (Feb 21, 2001)

Oh yeah, KyleW. Make the Struan, but notice the water is wrong. It's good bread.


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## isaac (Jun 9, 2001)

kyle, 

how do u like artisan baking across america? i think it is a very nice book. 

how do u like that other one that you got? if i am not mistaken, the same author wrote crust and crumb.



i just bought the village baker. he has a nice story to tell. i also bought crust and crumb. i went into the book store at the culinary school and saw it and took it really fast and guirded it with my hands. i just love that book. do u like TBH?

TBH... you cant have the book back!!!


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## risa (May 11, 2001)

Thanks for the thermometer tip Kimmie. That's one I've never read anywhere before, but something that will be very useful. I always just eyeballed and did that tapping thing.

Your bread OCD is getting very costly Kyle. I'm on a temporary buying hiatus because I bought all sorts of gadgets (not all bread-related unless anyone uses a sander and a drill on their bread) in the last couple of weeks.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

It's a good thing I don't have any kids. They might go without shoes!

I have just glanced @Artisan Baking. It certainly is a beautiful book. Some of the recipes look very tempting, like the roasted garlic bread from Della Whatever.

TBH What's wrong with the water in the struan recipe? I rather like Br. Reinhart's whole approach to the bread thing, both in C&C and Brother Juniper. Lot's of explanation without lecturing, threatening or intimidation. He is very comfortable with failure as part of the learning process. I will have the opportunity to meet him this evening and make bread with him tomorrow 

[ August 16, 2001: Message edited by: KyleW ]


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## thebighat (Feb 21, 2001)

If you have the light blue paperback, there's not enough water. I made a big batch of Struan today, got some ripe tomatoes on the way home. Almost suppertime.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Hi KyleW,

Take heart! One thing doesn't necessarily exclude the other. You should be able to fashion children's shoes out of your less-successful bread experiments...For that matter, I could conceive of rye socks and sourdough pants. I could easily see a line of Frank's and Ernest's children's clogs fashioned from overcooked loaves... The slashes on the loaves could become a mark of distinction, like the Nike swoosh, on a _F & E line_ of children's clogs!

You have no reason to not be procreating. You go boy!!!

I just got Beth Hensperger's _"Bread made Easy - A bakers first bread book_. There's a lot of "basic" info in there plus very nice "technical" photos. Anyone has it?

 

[ August 16, 2001: Message edited by: Kimmie ]


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## isaac (Jun 9, 2001)

hey guys....


my sours kick butt

my bread chef let me barrow a book called "baking: the art and science"

all i have to say that it is freaking awesome. the best book ever. tons of info on trouble shooting. take a look at this book... u wont be disapointed....unless u get the german copie....he he he


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

That is a nice book Kimmie. I specially love the fish shaped bread in it.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Thank you Iza. I just couldn't resist...


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

The call of the cookbook is sometime too hard to resist.


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