# bread improver??



## wuzzo87 (May 20, 2005)

hi,

I see a lil something called bread improver on the shelves of my local supermarkets. It's some white powder.
I wanted to ask...
Is it the same as vital wheat gluten, and what's the difference when using it? 

~thx~


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Bread improver usually contains some combination of vital wheat gluten, ascorbic acid, malt etc. I don't think its all that helpful. It seems to be another well crafted marketing 'gimmick'. Just one man;s opinion


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## wuzzo87 (May 20, 2005)

I see..thx..

It's because everytime i bake bread, it looks great on the outside, and the crumb is right. However, the inside seems "gluey", chewy and a bit moist, like slightly glistened. 
I bake a ciabatta last saturday and it was like tht, but it had the holes and the crumb looks alrite...only the texture...hmmm  

Is it the flour or the oven temperature. I bake it at 230 then reduce it to 200 and 180C... Baked it for about 40-45 mins. Used pillsbury all-purpose


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Oven temp depends on the kind of bread you're baking. Ciabatta, and other lean (no fat like egg butter or milk) doughs like high heat. Enriched (with fat) doughs like lower temps, around 175ºC. How long did you bake the ciabatta before you lowered the oven temp?


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## wuzzo87 (May 20, 2005)

I baked my ciabatta at 230C for about...20 minutes before lowering the temp to 200.


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## cookieguy (May 4, 2005)

Many ingredients can fall under the heading "bread improver." Whatever is in it must be listed on the label(except enzymes) otherwise they are in violation of labeling laws.

Everything from Vital Wheat Gluten, milk powders, emulsifiers (mono & dis, etc.), oxidizing agents (potassium bromate, ascorbic acid, azodicarbonamide, etc.), hydrocolloids (xanthan gum, etc.) to enzymes can be considered bread improvers. They mostly come into play in commercial bakeries where the dough undergoes machinery abuse or for shelflife extension.


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## wuzzo87 (May 20, 2005)

ok..
guess i'll give it a try to see if it has any significant effect...


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## mudbug (Dec 30, 1999)

wuzzo87,

I suggest skipping the bread improver and instead, try to figure out what exactly is not being executed properly in order to produce the attributes of the bread you are baking.

If you post your recipe and tell us step by step what you are doing, maybe we can help you achieve your goal. Keep in mind that environmental temperature and humidity, rising time and temp, oven steaming, etc are all factors that can affect the outcome.


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## wuzzo87 (May 20, 2005)

For the ciabatta, i made a poolish of which i left overnight.

Then the next day i placed the rest of the ingredients (flour, salt, water, yeast).
I added approx. 80% water. 
Then after mixing it and turning it a few times, i flipped and turned the dough in the bowl every 30-40 minutes for about 5 times. It became thicker after those turns and i placed it on a baking sheet and shaped it a bit, by folding it. Then i proofed it for almost 45mins -1 hr and it went into the oven ( i'm using a convection oven) at 230C. After 20 mins the temp was lowered to 200 and the last 15 mins 190C, if i'm not mistaken. 
Finally,I let it cool for about an hr b4 slicing it. hmmm


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

I think it would be helpfu, as mudbug suggested, if you you gives us your exact recipe, including specific amounts. Also FWIW, I only turn my ciabatta 3 times.


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## wuzzo87 (May 20, 2005)

Errm, i'm afraid i don't have an exact recipe. Just saw many others and made it. But it would be almost similiar to this, i think. Though i have trouble opening the website now. :suprise:

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/stuff...e-ciabatta.pdf

I think i need to purchase a bread book soon. Heard tht Reinhart's bread baker's apprentice is good.
Do u have a good recipe and some tips, for ciabatta?


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

I'm curious about something. If you have this King Arthur recipe, why did you make up your own? I don;t mean to sound harsh, but like most things, bread baking requires a lot of practice. Learning how to turn a list of proven ingredients, in proven proportions into a predictable loaf of bread is hard enough. Add to this challenge the challenge of figuring out the proportions is a recipe for disaster  

Make the King Arthur recipe. Make it again. Then after you've made it a third time, make it again! Only with this kind of appraoch will you learn how a dough should look and feel to produce the results you want.


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## wuzzo87 (May 20, 2005)

haha..let's just say i always have the tendency to do these. :crazy: 
Thx for the advice. I'll adhere to the recipe next time!!.. guess sometimes i have to learn it the hard way.. 

Thx guys for the advice and inspirations. I think i'ved been sucked into the breadmaking world.  ( and i agree it's addictive)


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## larcito (Dec 13, 2005)

Hi!

Bread improver is more a flour improver than anything else, it is not necessary to use it if your flour quality is ok. Our flour in S.A. is really not very good on protein or ash content (climate is too hot) so most of our industrial's use an improver. You really don't need the chemicals with American or Canadian flour but to improve your end product, malt flour at 1-2% can be added as it enriches the dough and converts starches to yeast foods or sugars!

Definitely do not add it to ciabatta as it will probably regulate the crumb and lose you your big bubbles!

Hope this helps you a little!


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## not a chef (May 22, 2011)

hi

i have a hard time to find bread improver in a grocery store. which supermarket did you see it?

thank you


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

n a ch,

  King Arthur Flour is always a good back up if you can't find it. little pricey


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## riderwear45 (May 27, 2011)

I suggest skipping the bread improver and instead of trying to understand exactly what it does not run correctly in order to produce the attributes of the baking bread.


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## pastrypassion (Apr 8, 2010)

Baking can also be a little more of an exacting science.  There is nothing wrong with experimenting with a recipe after you've proven it and made it many times.  I make many different types of breads and have never in my life used a bread improver.


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## maryc (Mar 18, 2017)

All purpose flour may not have enough gluten to give you good bread structure. Try using bread flour.


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Has anyone ever heard of "googling bread improver"?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!? Here:

*https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+a+bread+improver&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8*


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## norcalbaker59 (Feb 16, 2017)

Flour is everything. I highly recommend Central Milling flours. While I routinely stock a few brands, I stock and plow through more Central Milling than any other brand. They know flour. They supply some of the top bakeries in the nation including Tartine, Acme Bread Company, and Josey Baker Bread.

https://centralmilling.com/store/#central-milling-organic


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Norcalbaker59 said:


> Flour is everything. I highly recommend Central Milling flours. ...................


Those flours look great however shipping five pounds of pastry flour to Georgia costs $16 where I get White Lily soft wheat for a couple of bucks a 5 # bag locally.


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