# Masamoto HC or K sabatier?



## sirknifealot (Feb 13, 2018)

Hi

This is my first post, but I have been reading along for a couple of month now. What an awesome forum! So much info for a newbees like me. Learning a lot from all of you guys! Thank you 

I´m looking for a new (smaller) chefknife and have some questions on this matter.
After reading everything I could find on this forum I have narrowed the choice down to either a *masamoto HC 210 mm* or *a K Sabatier 200 mm*. I really like the profile of those knives, and from what I have been reading both get a lot of praises. I haven't been able to find any measurement of how wide the K sabs are. Does anyone know? 
I don't have any local retailers selling either knife, so I can't try any of them out before buying.

So my main question is: which knife will get me the best performance? 

I sharpen my knives on an edge pro apex. I'm new to it, but getting some pretty good edges.
The amount of sharpening and honing the knives need dos not factor in on my choice, only how it performs in the kitchen.

I am a little worried about the reactivness with food though. It's my first carbon, so I have no experience with how that affects the food. I know I have to whipe doing use and clean and dry after use to protect the knife, which I have no problems with.

However I do have a problem with off-flavors and miscoloring of the food. How much of a factor is this with these knives? They will be used for a lot of vegetables like onions, tomatos and such. From what I've read these knives aren't that reactive, but again - no experience 

And a final question. How does the *masamoto VG* compare to the HC and K Sab in cutting performance? Being stainless it does lose some of the "awesome factor", but on the other hand I have a little easier access to the knife here in Europe compared the HC. Not having the k sabs fingerguard makes sharpening a little easier, as I don't have the tools to level the fingerguard with the knife edge as I sharpen.

I'm not a chef and the knives will be used in a home kitchen 

Best regards


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## Jedicat94 (Feb 9, 2018)

I'm sorry if this knife falls into entirely wrong category, and if that's the case just ignore this post completely. But Masamoto KS seems to be available at http://www.knivesandstones.com

Just thought if that's been left out of options because of poor availability. It seems to get quite high praises performance wise.


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## sirknifealot (Feb 13, 2018)

I think I read somewhere that the *masamoto* QC problems where a thing of the past. More or less anyway  but I could be wrong. I´ll look in to that, but thanks for bringing it to my attention  does anyone have any experience with them within the last couple of years?

Regarding the *K-Sabatier* QC: people seem to have mixed feelings about them. How much an issue have people had with them? I plan to reprofile it to 15*if I choose that one, so the OOTB sharpness isn't really important.
The *misonos* seems to be very popular indeed, but for whatever reason I'm not really in to those. But then again, if they really are that great I might have to check them out again. But people also seem to say they are very reactive. Is that at problem? Or am I misunderstanding something?

About the symmetry: that might be quite an issue for me. I did know most Japanese knives where asymmetrical, but I actually thought I could sharpen at the same angle on both sides on the apex or maybe even reprofile to af 50/50. But after reading the post you linked to it seems to be out of the question.
If that is so I guess a lot of Japanese knives are out of the question for me … (hallo *Hattori FH*)
But great news with the non-issue regarding the carbon vs food!

Yea, those *masamoto KS* are indeed very cool looking knives! Thank you, I will look in to those. But they do also seem to be somewhat more pricy than the others  oh well. I guess you got a budget till you get a new one.. this knife thing really is a slippery slope


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## Jedicat94 (Feb 9, 2018)

And the rabbithole goes deeper..

Wasn't aware of this stuff until reading these threads above. Are there brands which are relatively asymmetrically free, so persons with not-so-great freehand sharpening skills can buy a nice piece of Japanese cutlery without having to be affraid of ruining it in first sharpening?


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## sirknifealot (Feb 13, 2018)

Ok thank you, I guess I’l stick with 50/50 bevel knives then. And skip the masamoto. Don't see any reason to take the chance when there are so many other great knives around 

After some more research I think it’s down to the K Sabatier or the Mac Pro MBK 85. I really like the profile of the K Sabatier and the MBK seems pretty close.

Would any of these be good choices? From what I know both have great handles and a good profile. I do realize its carbon vs stainless


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## aliphares (Jan 7, 2018)

benuser said:


>


I'm moving to the Netherlands soon! So as someone living there, do you mind if I ask you about the knife situation there? I know about knives and tools and JCK delivers easily, but do you have to pay taxes or something? Also are physical stores easy to come by?


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## aliphares (Jan 7, 2018)

The problem (for me at least) was never about finding the masamoto KS (although it seems it's slowly surfacing more easily once again)
It's that imo, although it's a fantastic knife, it's pretty overpriced, and you can get knives that perform as good and cost a less. The link is BDL's personal blog, and he talks about some popular french and Japanese brands. Instead of copying the part about the K sab and HC, I'll just link it, maybe you'll find something else you like. Keep in mind that it is 8 years old. Some of these knives aren't available anymore, but it's still pretty accurate.

http://www.cookfoodgood.com/?p=190


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## aliphares (Jan 7, 2018)

benuser said:


> When you're interested in anything from within the EU, better buy it when you're abroad. You don't pay our VAT.
> Once you're in the EU, you pay of course the full price with VAT. For imported articles as well. Plus import tax 8.5 per cent for Japanese knives above a certain value. And handling costs.
> When getting stuff by JCK you may have luck, ...or not.
> Where do you live now?


I live in Beirut, Lebanon. There simply aren't any knives stores at all. One sell stainless K-sabs, and that's it. The others only carry victorinox and tramotina knives. Nothing else available. I'm moving to continue my studies there, I'm a med student.


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## aliphares (Jan 7, 2018)

benuser said:


> As for local shops: standard Zwilling, Wüsthof, Global, Shun.The usual stuff. One shop selling Misono, but you better have it with JCK.


Which store? I'm considering a misono sweden as my next knife (ironically im torn between it and a masamoto hc)


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## aliphares (Jan 7, 2018)

The masahiro was also on my radar but i prefer the higher tip on the misono. The only 210 I have is a henckles I keep as a beater, I'm already planning on getting a 240. And yea I know, the misono is as famous for it's lousy initial edge as it is for it's overall quality, I was definitely not planning on keeping it 
Also thank you for the store suggestions, should come in handy!
Any other gyuto suggestions?


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## aliphares (Jan 7, 2018)

benuser said:


> I had Duikelman in Amsterdam in mind. After verification, there are more.
> http://misono.nl/VerkooppuntenMisono.html
> Misonos are strongly asymmetric as well, and come with a weak, overly convexed edge. No big deal really, but you better get rid of it as soon as possible. Put a narrow straight bevel at a high angle on the left side, and a convex bevel ending at a much lower angle on the right.


Do you mean I should put a second bevel on the right only and keep the left straight? I usually just thin behind the edge and keep the edge 50/50 but all my knives are soft stainless


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## aliphares (Jan 7, 2018)

Will keep in mind, I do well enough with stones but mostly it's even sharpening. I wanted to ask about shipping costs over there, how much would a knife cost me in taxes and fees if i bought it off JCK? also I can't find togiharus other than some American retailers.
PS: sorry for hijacking the the thread!


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## aliphares (Jan 7, 2018)

sirknifealot said:


> Ok thank you, I guess I'l stick with 50/50 bevel knives then. And skip the masamoto. Don't see any reason to take the chance when there are so many other great knives around
> 
> After some more research I think it's down to the K Sabatier or the Mac Pro MBK 85. I really like the profile of the K Sabatier and the MBK seems pretty close.
> 
> Would any of these be good choices? From what I know both have great handles and a good profile. I do realize its carbon vs stainless


I love my sabatiers but the Mac is so we'll regarded for a reason. It and the masamoto VG are probably as good as Japanese mass produced stainelss knives get. Unless you want a good but cheaper carbon knife just to learn how more about carbon, I'd say they're a step above the sabatier. Which depends on how you like your knives. A bit of flex or stiffer as all hell.


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## aliphares (Jan 7, 2018)

benuser said:


> Again:
> http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/33951-A-Basic-Explanation-of-Asymmetry
> 
> and
> ...


I promise I'll read both well before I get back to you


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## sirknifealot (Feb 13, 2018)

Thanks for all your inputs. I made up my mind to get the Mac MBK 85.
Not what I was expecting I would end up with, put I think you really saved me some trouble guiding me away from the asymmetrical edgesbecause of my sharpening setup 

I really love the Mac MBK profile, and it seems to be the right way to go for my needs. I all ready own one Mac knife and love it a lot, so I guess there´s no need to change a winning team 

Those Sabs and Robert Herder 1923 knives are nice though, so I guess I’ll check them out again at some point


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## aliphares (Jan 7, 2018)

sirknifealot said:


> Thanks for all your inputs. I made up my mind to get the Mac MBK 85.
> Not what I was expecting I would end up with, put I think you really saved me some trouble guiding me away from the asymmetrical edgesbecause of my sharpening setup
> 
> I really love the Mac MBK profile, and it seems to be the right way to go for my needs. I all ready own one Mac knife and love it a lot, so I guess there´s no need to change a winning team
> ...


Macs are amazing, like the link I sent you from BDL's post, you won't go wrong with one especially if you prefer a stiffer knife


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