# Need some Knife advice



## You know 42 (Sep 10, 2018)

Hello I'm new in the forum I moved out from my parants and now need a knife for my kitchen. 
I'm searching for an allrounder chefknife in the price rang till max 250€. It should have it's center of weight between the handle and the blade. It would be nice if it ceeps it sharpnes well so I don't have to sharpen it that often. Also since im planning to ceep it for a long time it would be cool if it looks nice. I like the look of damast but thats just a preference not a must.
Thank you in advance.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Where in EU you live?


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## You know 42 (Sep 10, 2018)

rick alan said:


> Where in EU you live?


Why is that important?


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Because it often dictates availability or total cost because of import fees and duty. This all influences what we recommend or sometimes which vendor to recommend.


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## You know 42 (Sep 10, 2018)

phatch said:


> Because it often dictates availability or total cost because of import fees and duty. This all influences what we recommend or sometimes which vendor to recommend.


Yeah makes sense was just checking you know new forum on the internet you don't want to give the first bot you living adress. I live in Austria. But im also willing to pay a bit more if it really catches my eye and thanks for the quick reply.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/kaeru-kasumi-stainless-gyuto-240mm/

http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-ginsan-nashiji-gyuto-240mm-k-s-special/

Both great options for a first serious knife and under budget. Spend the savings on a japanese waterstone or two for sharpening.


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## You know 42 (Sep 10, 2018)

millionsknives said:


> http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/kaeru-kasumi-stainless-gyuto-240mm/
> 
> http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-ginsan-nashiji-gyuto-240mm-k-s-special/
> 
> Both great options for a first serious knife and under budget. Spend the savings on a japanese waterstone or two for sharpening.


Thank you,
both look very nice. When were at it do you have any recommendation regarding waterstones?


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## galley swiller (May 29, 2013)

Let me fill you in on an ultimate truth.

With use, all knife edges dull. The only way to avoid dulling any particular knife is to never use that knife.

If you want to use a knife and to keep it sharp, you are going to need to sharpen it on a regular basis.

To slow down the dulling of the edge, you are also going to need a cutting surface which does not unnecessarily dull the edge.

Those are basic, unalterable truths.

That being said, you are going to need to buy more than just a knife. You also need a sharpening system and you need a good cutting board. My personal reaction for someone setting out to outfit a personal kitchen is to spend on each category.

You need a chef's knife (a minimum of 20cm in the length of the blade), a very small paring knife (somewhat around 7cm to 9cm in the length of the blade) and a serrated edge blade for bread and other foods with a tough outer skin and a soft interior (with a minimum blade length of 25cm).

I prefer basic working knives. I am not a fan of fancy blades. In particular, I do not like damascus blades. I find them to be blades which require a lot of energy and effort to keep looking good, without any cutting performance advantage to them.

I would recommend a MAC HB-85 chef's knife - 21cm blade length, decent quality steel that can hold an edge (though obviously not forever). The balance point is just forward of the handle scales. This is a tool - it's definitely not fancy. There's no bolster. The price is 75 euros. The nearest European distributor is in Germany. https://www.kuechenmesser.de/HB-85-MAC-Chef-Kochmesser-215-mm-Klingenlaenge

For both the paring knife and the bread knife, I would recommend Victorinox fibrox handle knives. These are decent quality basic knives at modest price.

For a cutting board, I would choose a good quality edge grain wood board (in Europe, beech is often liked). The minimum dimensions for such an edge grain board need to be about 30cm by 45cm by 5cm thick. I will leave searching for that up to you.

For sharpening stones, I would recommend water-based lubricant stones only (usually referred to as "waterstones"). The minimum size should be 5cm by 20cm (though bigger is better). I will leave searching for that up to you.

Since you are in Austria, with a budget of 250 euros, first figure out how much taxes will be. Then figure out how much after taxes you can really spend. Then plan accordingly.

I am in the United States, so I don't have a full knowledge of European Union laws, rules and regulations. Hopefully, benuser will have more details.

Galley Swiller


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## You know 42 (Sep 10, 2018)

galley swiller said:


> Let me fill you in on an ultimate truth.
> 
> With use, all knife edges dull. The only way to avoid dulling any particular knife is to never use that knife.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much,
I know that no knife keeps it's edge for ever I may be a beginner regarding kitchen knifes but I have some experience with other knifes from that I know that it alsow depends on the knife (steel) (and the use) how fast it gets dull. 
I already have a high quality cutting board it is made out of walnut.
I also have a bread knife and some little knifes they are nothing special but work well. I also have a chefknife but thats complete rubbish. Thats why im searching for a high quality chefknife that does not leave me hanging when I need it and I plan to ceep till it basically fals apart.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

You know 42 said:


> Thank you,
> both look very nice. When were at it do you have any recommendation regarding waterstones?


I like these shapton kuromaku line for the price/performance. I use the 1k and 2k myself and I have random other stones and natural stones for finishers.

https://www.amazon.de/s/ref=nb_sb_n...=shapton+kuromaku&rh=i:aps,k:shapton+kuromaku

There might be better synthetic stones out there, but I don't know what's available in Austria. As far as getting a great cutting edge, I think you would get
1) 1.5k or 2k for normal sharpening, bevel setting, etc
2) 5k for finishing

That's it! For me, anything beyond that is for cosmetics - keeping the sides looking the certain way after thinning


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## You know 42 (Sep 10, 2018)

millionsknives said:


> I like these shapton kuromaku line for the price/performance. I use the 1k and 2k myself and I have random other stones and natural stones for finishers.
> 
> https://www.amazon.de/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=shapton+kuromaku&rh=i:aps,k:shapton+kuromaku
> 
> ...


Thanks I wasn't shure what grains I should get but now I know. I probably gonna go with the one with the black handle but I gonna wait a week ore so if anybody in the forum has other suggestions.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

You know 42 said:


> Thanks I wasn't shure what grains I should get but now I know. I probably gonna go with the one with the black handle but I gonna wait a week ore so if anybody in the forum has other suggestions.


I don't really know the difference between special and ebony handle K&S Tanakas. The ebony handles is the same price and there are more reviews. Upgraded blade fit and finish should be the same on either http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-ginsan-nashiji-gyuto-240mm-with-ebony-handle/


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

I don't think there is a stainless knife that gets more praise for the dollar/Euro than the Tanaka Ginsan, so you can probably stop there. If you were in the States I'd recommend the Geshin Kagero, but with the shipping and fees the price would be prohibitive. There are Equivalents of this knife, like the SRS-15 Akifusa, but grind and F+F are not as good and price still high.

I believe Chocera stones are also reasonably priced in your part of the world, coticules definitely. Benuser will likely have something to say about that.


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## You know 42 (Sep 10, 2018)

rick alan said:


> I don't think there is a stainless knife that gets more praise for the dollar/Euro than the Tanaka Ginsan, so you can probably stop there. If you were in the states I'd recommend the Geshin Kagero, but with the shipping and fees the price would be prohibitive. There are Equivalents of this knife, like the SR-15 Akifusa, but grind and F+F are not as good and price still high.
> 
> I believe Chocera stones are also reasonably priced in your part of the world, coticules definitely. Benuser will likely have something to say about that.


Thanks just wanted to hear a second opinion on that probably gonna stick with the Tanaka.
You wrote there is no stainless knife that gets more praises whats with carbon steel knifes?


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

You know 42 said:


> You wrote there is no stainless knife that gets more praises whats with carbon steel knifes?


Carbon steel requires immediate attention. You would need to clean and dry after cutting, not after cooking or eating. Even more so if you are cutting anything acidic. It can rust just sitting in storage. I have more carbon steel knives than I can use so this happens to me. If you just one knife you're using constantly its less of a problem.

The payoff is easier sharpening. Most of my knives are carbon steel. Somewhere in between is stainless clad carbon steel. Only the edge is exposed. Easy sharpening, less likely to rust, but when it comes time to thin, that soft stainless takes more work to refinish.


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## You know 42 (Sep 10, 2018)

Ah ok as I thought. Is the price performance ratio better with carbon knifes?


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## benuser (Nov 18, 2010)

You may find Naniwa Professional (former Chosera) stones with 
knivesandtools.de
I have yet to see better prices in Europe.
You will need at least a medium-coarse like the 800 and a medium-fine one like a 2 or 3k. The end result will correspond to 1200, 3 and 4k according to JIS standards. 
See as well their Belgian Blue and Coticule. If you use a very fine stone only for deburring a small one may be an unexpensive option. 
Getting stuff from outside the EU involves import tax, local VAT and handling costs.
The MAC Galley suggested is an excellent option, and great value.
You should be able to maintain it for a long time with a Naniwa Pro 2k only.


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## You know 42 (Sep 10, 2018)

benuser said:


> You may find Naniwa Professional (former Chosera) stones with
> knivesandtools.de
> I have yet to see better prices in Europe.
> You will need at least a medium-coarse like the 800 and a medium-fine one like a 2 or 3k. The end result will correspond to 1200, 3 and 4k according to JIS standards.
> ...


Thanks for your reply I already ordered two shapton kuromaku stones a 1500 and a 5000 one. Those were suggested by on of the other members they are currently in Tokyo so they gonna take a while to arrive.


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## benuser (Nov 18, 2010)

You know 42 said:


> Thanks for your reply I already ordered two shapton kuromaku stones a 1500 and a 5000 one. Those were suggested by on of the other members they are currently in Tokyo so they gonna take a while to arrive.


Great stones. The Shapton's grits are a bit different from the Naniwa's. I guess yours will be equivalent to JIS 1200 and 4k.


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