# new knife on kickstarter



## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

Just wondering if anyone has seen this on kickstarter?


It's claiming better edge retention than "stainless steel" but it doesnt say which stainless it tested against

What i noticed - other knives are on the market that use ZIRCONIA that are dirt cheap. Is this some type of ceramic ?

There is no mention of sharpening - which leads me to believe its ceramic

No mention of ROC testing

No mention of the steels they compared against

The heel and handle size look off. Not a lot of knuckle room


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

It looks bad in a lot of ways. Terrible grind first off. It will wedge like mad.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

But look at all those fancy impressive sounding terms! ULTRA NANO ZIRCONIA! HIGH DENSITY! (gosh I didn't realize I wasn't suppose to shape a marshmallow into a blade and use it!) 

At this stage in the game I can probably take a dull, beat up <15$ stainless chef's knife and make it cut foods like in any of those pics or videos with some time on a few stones.

All in all seems like it's for people wowed by technical sounding terms yet it very much lacks of actual spec details, and who don't know that brands like Fujiwara, Kanetsune's lower end stuff, Masahiro, and Tojiro exist.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

It looks like a large petty knife to me. I think it's pretty. I would buy it for $20 kinda like a "What the hey?" sorta thing. If it was sucky I could lose it at a shelter somewhere and not feel too bad.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Like Phatch says, it will wedge like crazy. Hollow grind, and no taper in the thickness of the blade are hallmarks of a cheap knife.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

It's not at all big. What do you think you'll be cutting with it to have any worries about wedging?


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

So much garbage marketing. Words have meanings but not the way they are using them.

"thin cut redefines savory expectation"

"the paramount of kitchen sharpness"

"the first that will cut his way to kitchen tool history"

"ultra nano zirconia particles"

"your cuisine can reach culinary supremacy defined by paragon precision"
"each granular slice"

"turn seconds into forever"

HUH WHAT ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT

It's like an Iron Chef and All your base mashup of engrish

How can you guys tell anything about the grind? There is no choil shot so I can't say how thick or thin it is at the edge anywhere. At the spine 2.4mm isn't that big at all.

My problem with any ceramic knives is the same. They are brittle and difficult to sharpen.





  








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millionsknives


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Jun 10, 2016








Ya know humans started with rocks, obsidian, then we went to bronze, iron, and then steel! Why are we going backwards again


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

foodpump said:


> Like Phatch says, it will wedge like crazy. Hollow grind, and no taper in the thickness of the blade are hallmarks of a cheap knife.


could you describe or link to someone describing what a hollow grind is?


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## kytcho (Jun 10, 2016)

Hi there,

good to know there are so many experts around.

We are the owners of KYTCHO.

And you are absolutely right, there is some information missing in the campaign.

We are wondering on how there could be any states on a material that is not on the market for knifes yet.

Our engineer will collect all the information that is important for you within this weekend and we will update the campaign with that next week. So after that there should be no open questions for any presumptions.

Have a great weekend

Angelika


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

LOL. I'm just now noticing that we have a member named "kytcho". Crack me up.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

IceMan said:


> It looks like a large petty knife to me.


That's about the size limit for ceramics because of the brittleness


IceMan said:


> LOL. I'm just now noticing that we have a member named "kytcho". Crack me up.


Might be the manufacturer created an account to comment


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Wedgng isn't about total thickness so much as it is about how fast the knife moves to that total thickness. So I don't need a coil shot to be able to tell how it's going to wedge.

Any hard vegetable is going to wedge with this knife. carrots will fracture and shed little broken bits as you cut, potatoes will wedge, particularly sweet potatoes, or onions. Sure it will get through them but not as well as a properly designed blade. On the hard veggies, is more about breaking them apart than cutting with the grind shown.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

It is too small a knife to properly / adequately cut stuff that will cause wedging. For stuff that would cause wedging you would use a different knife. Unless you're cutting up titanium carrots I don't think you need to worry about the blade breaking. I still feel this is just a big petty.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

bobtheman said:


> could you describe or link to someone describing what a hollow grind is?


A hollow grind is produced by a round grindstone. Say you have a 8" grindstone on a bench grinder. When you lay your item on the toolrest and grind, the wheel's circumference will grind a "hollow" or dip. For many woodworkers this is a desirable effect, as it makes honing the tool on stones easier and faster. However, for kitchen knives this is NOT desirable, and you will NOT see hollow grinds on any _commercial_ kitchen knife, regardless of the price range.

What Phatch says about total thickness is dead-on. The knife making process starts off with the blade at a certain thickness--say 3/16", yet at the cutting edge it is "0"--the two surfaces (or faces, if you prefer) meet. Again, on any_ commercial _knife--_regardless of price range_, the thickness tapers from the 3/16" to "0" gradually. On "other" non commercial knives, like the Cutco ones, the blade thickness remains constant, right up to the hollow grind, where it then tapers down very quickly. On expensive knives, this tapering is done during the casting and forging processes. On in-expensive knives, like the Victorinox knives, this done by grinding. Doesn't really matter how the tapering is done, but if it isn't done, the knife behaves like a splitting axe. Anyone who has split firewood knows about wedging action and how much effort is needed to drive a wedge.

You can find more about hollow grinds on woodworking blogs and woodworking you-tube channels, but it doesn't belong on kitchen knives.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

You might see hollow grind on the left side of a gyuto.  Certainly you see it on single bevels.  On takedas both sizeds are concave.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Having never worked with Japanese knives, I'll take your word for it.

However, what I see on the website of the knife we are discussing, is that the blade material is of a consistent thickness right up to the hollow grind.  In other words, there is no tapering of the blade thickness, and the hollow grind is a very cheap method of reducing the blade thickness in order to get an edge.  This is the same method that Cutco uses for their stuff.  I also do not see any polish or evidence of finer abrasives used on the actual bevels.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

It is a large petty, heel height I'd say is 35mm.  Certainly that discourages chopping, which is likely their intention in order of discouraging abuse their fragile blade can't handle.

It actually doesn't seem to have a hollow grind, looks more like a straight taper.  Certainly not slick enough.  Claimed edge angle is 13deg, certainly conventional ceramics can't handle that.

Lousy Ken Onion like handle.

Well that's all the help I'll give them.

I think they've got off to as good a start as the Misen boys, let's see if they top a million US also.  Misen has been selling on line, and they still haven't delivered a knife to anyone.  It's been close to a year already, I don't see how it is that it takes even this long to deliver a knife from a Chinese factory.  Something doesn't smell right. Not that it ever did, from the knife's design to Kenji's gushing endorsement.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

It seems like eons ago that I sold off my Global knives. IIR they were all hollow ground. Kinda funny to think back to that being cutting edge stuff in the early 90's.

Dave


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## cooky16 (Jul 18, 2016)

bobtheman said:


> Just wondering if anyone has seen this on kickstarter?
> 
> 
> It's claiming better edge retention than "stainless steel" but it doesnt say which stainless it tested against
> ...


seems good to me! i will check more of their brand... i have been looking for new knives myself and just cant decide! the vid looks good and woulld support a good project or company


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Unless you've got money to blow, I'd suggest saving your money and using it on a product line that already has a reputation of being good.


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