# As if the Food Network wasn't enough of a joke already!



## chrose

I saw this link and had to post it. When I first saw it yesterday afternoon there were 56 posts. As of last night there were 97. I have not looked since. Check out the recipe and then the responses. There are some pretty humorous people out there!

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/paula-deen/english-peas-recipe/index.html


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## gunnar

wow, that is one sad recipe.I can't beleive anyone actually bothered to post that.


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## tylerm713

I think this comment is the winner:

"You need to be clearer in your recipes. I melted the butter with a small amount of pot (about two joints' worth in the microwave then added the peas. Since I only cooked until the peas were warm the marijuana was still basically raw. The stems made it really unpleasant.

Perhaps in the future you could substitute "saucepan" for "pot". It's confusing."

Classic.


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## leeniek

That's a pretty pitiful recipe.. I love the comments though!


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## babytiger

At least that "recipe" is edible....unlike this one: http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/sandra-lee/sensuous-chocolate-truffles-recipe/index.html


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## Iceman

This recipe (the peas) has been all over the news today, therefor the big number of comments in a short space.

Now maybe just take it easy a bit and try to give it a little rhythm. Is it all possible that a recipe like this is just there to show how simple a dish might be? A simple dish with no complications at all, just heat it up and serve it. 

On the other topic, Sandra Lee's recipe is fantastic. That's right, go ahead and tell me that you've never taken a finger full of frosting off a fresh-baked cake?!? You're a liar if you do. You've never had divinity? It's a simple desert tasty for sugar junkies. Quick and easy, with some flavor. 

For all anyone wants to rag, complain and disrespect these two women, just remember ............... they both have TV shows, you don't.


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## tylerm713

IceMan said:


> For all anyone wants to rag, complain and disrespect these two women, just remember ............... they both have TV shows, you don't.


So since Sandra Lee has a TV show, she is a better chef than Thomas Keller?


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## Iceman

NO, not at all. Since she has a TV show _she is more successful *THAN YOU.* _



tylerm713 said:


> So since Sandra Lee has a TV show, she is a better chef than Thomas Keller?


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## tylerm713

Iceman, I won't argue that point. But I think it begs the question: more successful at what? Do you really regard her as someone reputable in the culinary world? Do you consider her a bastion of American cuisine?


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## Iceman

I consider her a "Celebrity Chef", w/ a TV show, that makes a lot of money. "Bastion of American cuisine"? NO, but I don't consider Keller one either. Have you ever eaten at the _French Laundry, Per Se, Ad Hoc _or_ Bouchon_? They are not places for regular, blue-collar, lunch-bucket working stiffs. ME. Tonight I was taken to dinner by two very close friends. Neither of them has ever been to _Red Lobster_. That is where we went. Tuesday night, really crummy Chicagoland weather, 70% booked @ 8:30. I'm positive that FL is 100% booked, like it is every night. I'll be willing to bet that if you asked 100 people on the street in downtown wherever you live, 3 or less have heard of FL but over 80% know of _Red Lobster_. Bastions of American cuisine for me are those chefs that get bumped off _Top Chef, _go home and continue to work, busting their butts to build a great place. Many of those goofy places on _Diners Drive-Ins and Dives _is where I like to go to eat. I've worked in those kinda places. That's America.


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## shavy

IceMan said:


> I consider her a "Celebrity Chef", w/ a TV show, that makes a lot of money. "Bastion of American cuisine"? NO, but I don't consider Keller one either. Have you ever eaten at the _French Laundry, Per Se, Ad Hoc _or_ Bouchon_? They are not places for regular, blue-collar, lunch-bucket working stiffs. ME. Tonight I was taken to dinner by two very close friends. Neither of them has ever been to _Red Lobster_. That is where we went. Tuesday night, really crummy Chicagoland weather, 70% booked @ 8:30. I'm positive that FL is 100% booked, like it is every night. I'll be willing to bet that if you asked 100 people on the street in downtown wherever you live, 3 or less have heard of FL but over 80% know of _Red Lobster_. Bastions of American cuisine for me are those chefs that get bumped off _Top Chef, _go home and continue to work, busting their butts to build a great place. Many of those goofy places on _Diners Drive-Ins and Dives _is where I like to go to eat. I've worked in those kinda places. That's America.


Is that your personal goal as a chef? To head a Red Lobster? To cook mediocre food for people who don't know any better? You know what Sandra Lee is successful at? Being a TV personality, and using that to propel her into other markets. She's not successful as a cook, or as someone looking to inspire others with their cuisine. She's not teaching, she's not building, she's not bettering. She's just making money in a way that happens to be related to food.

People may not know some of the top chefs in America, or some of the unsung heros of truly unique and delicious cuisine, but make no mistake that those people ARE accomplished and deserving of respect and admiration in their field. How on earth are people going to know better than Red Lobster and Kwaanza Cake if that's all they're ever exposed to? Honey, Red Lobster isn't "America". It's ignorance of mediocrity.


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## jellly

Ok, OK, sort of off topic, but I feel the need to stick up for TK.  Coincidentally, I had breakfast at Bouchon this morning.  I have relatives in town and it is a favorite with me on such occasions.  You really don't need to be a food snob to appreciate this cuisine.  Perfectly cooked eggs with Lyonnaise potatoes, the toast was brioche (housemade), of course and the croissants were flaky and filled with the flavor of quality butter.  Even if you have never eaten at Red Lobster, I think you could enjoy that.

Oh, and Chrose, thanks for the link, I got quite a laugh and had to share it with friends.


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## kuan

IceMan said:


> NO, not at all. Since she has a TV show _she is more successful *THAN YOU.* _


Only in that she's more successful at having a TV show than me.


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## chefedb

Sure she is a success, she has a low neckline on her blouse and is attractive, That Sells. Maybe if Kuan stood there with his pants down he would have a TV show also.

     Get Real Iceman, I feel you cannot possibly take your profession serious if you call these people chefs. Possibly to the layman or the housewives or the young marrieds who don't or can't cook. I think they are a disgrace to our profession when you and others refer to them as Chefs.

     Also if Red Lobster is your idea of dining, then I can appreciate some of your comments. To me Red Lobster is nothing more then slightly upgraded fast counter food served at a table at a slightly elevated fast food price.

    I ate there  once, the rolls were good. thats all I can say. It's a good place for a young guy to take a cheap date.


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## kuan

I don't think Iceman thinks so, but like it or not many of these places represent middle America.  Denny's, Red Lobster, Olive Garden, Perkin's, etc.  That's what he's trying to say.


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## kyheirloomer

Something else IceMan either ignores or is unaware of. Y'all remember The Devil Wears Prada? That wonderful scene where Meryl Streep goes through this litany of how and why the blue, discount-house blouse being worn by her soon to be assistant originated as a high-fashion statement by a top designer two years before.

It's the same in our world. Casual dining restaurants are a trailing indicator of what the real top chefs of America have been doing the past few years.

Complicating it further is that the Midwest is, itself, a trailing indicator. Whether the world of food, or fashion, or much else, there is a two-year gap between what becomes popular on the coasts and when it hits the charts in the Midwest. That's not a value judgement, btw, just an observation.

So, returning it home, it might be four or five years after the Kellers, and Andres', and Riparts do something that it trickles down. But eventually it does; in a diluted, barely recognizable, blue, discount-house sort of way.

So, if Red Lobster and Olive Garden and the like are IceMan's preferences, that's fine. But he needs to keep in mind where their inspiration comes from.

And of course, as he made plain on the other thread, he is impressed with Sandra and Giada and etc. not because of their cookery skills, but because of their mammary displays---which, of course, is one of FNs main criteria for female stars in the first place.


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## kuan

> Originally Posted by *KYHeirloomer*
> And of course, as he made plain on the other thread, he is impressed with Sandra and Giada and etc. not because of their cookery skills, but because of their mammary displays---which, of course, is one of FNs main criteria for female stars in the first place.


I'll ignore that. But Garrett and Giada are friends. I don't think he appreciates comments like that.


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## tylerm713

IceMan said:


> I consider her a "Celebrity Chef", w/ a TV show, that makes a lot of money. "Bastion of American cuisine"? NO, but I don't consider Keller one either. Have you ever eaten at the _French Laundry, Per Se, Ad Hoc _or_ Bouchon_? They are not places for regular, blue-collar, lunch-bucket working stiffs. ME. Tonight I was taken to dinner by two very close friends. Neither of them has ever been to _Red Lobster_. That is where we went. Tuesday night, really crummy Chicagoland weather, 70% booked @ 8:30. I'm positive that FL is 100% booked, like it is every night. I'll be willing to bet that if you asked 100 people on the street in downtown wherever you live, 3 or less have heard of FL but over 80% know of _Red Lobster_. Bastions of American cuisine for me are those chefs that get bumped off _Top Chef, _go home and continue to work, busting their butts to build a great place. Many of those goofy places on _Diners Drive-Ins and Dives _is where I like to go to eat. I've worked in those kinda places. That's America.


Celebrity? Yes.

Chef? No. Not at all. Not even close.

I can't possibly see how you respect someone that insist on telling Americans that mediocrity is the goal of cooking. She doesn't try to hide it; she knows her food sucks. But she also knows there are enough people out there like you that will drink it up and come out the other side thinking she's a genius for opening a can of beans and pouring melted Velveeta all over it. She preaches to unsuspecting housewives the virtues of preservative laden processed foods, mixes them with other inferior ingredients, and demonstrates no respect for the culinary arts. I'm no chef, mind you, but I know one when I see one, and I know when I see a crock of $h*t.


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## foodpump

Forget all the food network cra*, mainly because I don't watch it, never really have, and can't relate to it. 

But If you read Icemans's post, he's not saying he wants every place to be a Red Lobster, he saying, "Bastions of American Cuisine are those Chefs who get bumped off "Top Chef", go home and bust thier butts to make a great place".

Face it, not everyone can afford to eat at really nice place all the time, once or twice a year maybe. 

Good food is good food, and it starts with good ingredients, good technique, and good presentation.  Honesty always shows up in good food, and when it doesn't, it shows too.


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## gunnar

IceMan said:


> This recipe (the peas) has been all over the news today, therefor the big number of comments in a short space.
> 
> Now maybe just take it easy a bit and try to give it a little rhythm. Is it all possible that a recipe like this is just there to show how simple a dish might be? A simple dish with no complications at all, just heat it up and serve it.
> 
> On the other topic, Sandra Lee's recipe is fantastic. That's right, go ahead and tell me that you've never taken a finger full of frosting off a fresh-baked cake?!? You're a liar if you do. You've never had divinity? It's a simple desert tasty for sugar junkies. Quick and easy, with some flavor.
> 
> For all anyone wants to rag, complain and disrespect these two women, just remember ............... they both have TV shows, you don't.


Take it easy? On a recipe that is about opening a can and melting butter? Not much to get upset about except it's a sad recipe. Honestly, did it even need to be posted? Steamed green beans is just as easy and tastier. Of course this should be ridiculed. It's the equivalent of a Shakespearean actor coming out and saying "uh..To be or not to...uh... whatever". and then farting on stage. If you like Paula Dean, fine. Doesn't bother me one bit, but I can see no defense for this "phoned in performance" of a recipe, it's just sad.

As far as that finger full of frosting off a fresh baked cake? you darn skippy! I took two fingers of it and then ate some CAKE. If you want to eat spoon fulls of frosting out of a jar, go for it. Put on the chick flick and pj's, get on the couch and eat away..I've done it. But I'll never fool myself into believing that I should dollop it on a plate and dust it with cocoa and try and pass that off as a good dessert.

Disrespect? maybe. Ragging? no, I don't think so. Criticizing as a professional some recipes that are sad, unhealthy, lack imagination and utilize over processed foods, YES!


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## Iceman

LOL. WOW. I can't wait to get home to answer all of this. Some of you are on with your replies. Some miss widely. Thank You _*kuan*_ for catching one of my points.


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## gunnar

foodpump said:


> Forget all the food network cra*, mainly because I don't watch it, never really have, and can't relate to it.
> 
> But If you read Icemans's post, he's not saying he wants every place to be a Red Lobster, he saying, "Bastions of American Cuisine are those Chefs who get bumped off "Top Chef", go home and bust thier butts to make a great place".
> 
> Face it, not everyone can afford to eat at really nice place all the time, once or twice a year maybe.
> 
> Good food is good food, and it starts with good ingredients, good technique, and good presentation. Honesty always shows up in good food, and when it doesn't, it shows too.


I like cheap good food as well but try to eat at places that are A. locally owned and B. do good home cooking. I have defended places shown on Diners, Drive-in and Dives and Man vs food. Not because it's haute cuisine by any means but because the food was honest (if a bit over portioned/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif). I like one of my local eats breakfast scramble, home fried potatoes, cheese, peppers, bacon, sausage and scrambled eggs all piled high on a plate. I can get sour cream and salsa or home gravy poured over it if I ask. fancy? nope. delicious and hearty? oh yeah!


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## chrose

Gunnar said:


> It's the equivalent of a Shakespearean actor coming out and saying "uh..To be or not to...uh... whatever". and then farting on stage.


I don't know that just strikes me as funny as hell!!

I laugh everytime I read it!


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## petemccracken

IMHO, there are certain categories of places that sell food ready for eating:

Feeding stations, i.e. convenience markets, fast food, casual chains, take and go, institutional food service, mainly prepackaged or food assembly. Key is SPEED
Eating establishments, i.e. coffee shops, diners, more than likely actual cooking takes place, key is QUANTITY
Dining establishments, i.e. independent restaurants, restaurant groups, minimal "food assembly", more scratch cooking, dining is an experience as well as food. Key is QUALITY
Each has its place and purpose.

TAWTHDIK


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## foodpump

chrose said:


> Gunnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's the equivalent of a Shakespearean actor coming out and saying "uh..To be or not to...uh... whatever". and then farting on stage.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know that just strikes me as funny as hell!!
> 
> I laugh everytime I read it!
Click to expand...

Sounds like something Mark Twain dreamed up in "Adventures of Huck Finn...


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## mommamae

I don't do fancy, I do good. I don't do Red Lobster because I don't like microwaved food full of salt and preservatives. And I hate sea food. But I will do the dinner down the street from my house where the fanciest thing they do is the rack of lamb dinner special on Tuesdays.

If it don't taste good, it ain't worth eating. If it's gone in two bites, it's too small for eating. If the somebody who made my dinner is having a hissy about my lack of appreciation for their "training and skills" then they outta take the fancy education and go build lacquered food art for a gallery somewhere.

Seriously. In America we are SO RICH that our poor people are FAT. We're so stinking filthy rich that our poorest citizens overeat on processed junk sold to them by Sandra Lee on the Food Network. We are so damned disgustingly morbidly rich that there are tens of thousands of Chefs prepared and trained by highly competitive "Culinary Arts" schools all over the country and very few of them are having a hard time getting a job. Our commercials for food are down right pornographic and people get into arguments on internet forums about whether Red Lobster is an "insult" to cooking and mock the oversimplified recipes offered by a television personality on a network devoted to the cooking and preparation of food! Red Lobster, fancy pants chefs and Food Network are all pieces in the same puzzle, folks. Squabbling about which section of the puzzle is the most offensive is pretty asinine.

'Cause when it's boiled down to the basics, cooking is about keeping people fed so they don't starve to death, and it doesn't take a whole hell of a lot to accomplish that. Be grateful you all live in the part of the world where the preparation and serving of food can be such a Big Fat Deal(tm).


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## shavy

chefedb said:


> Sure she is a success, she has a low neckline on her blouse and is attractive, That Sells. Maybe if Kuan stood there with his pants down he would have a TV show also.


Thanks for the laugh.


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## shavy

Gunnar said:


> I like cheap good food as well but try to eat at places that are A. locally owned and B. do good home cooking. I have defended places shown on Diners, Drive-in and Dives and Man vs food. Not because it's haute cuisine by any means but because the food was honest (if a bit over portioned/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif). I like one of my local eats breakfast scramble, home fried potatoes, cheese, peppers, bacon, sausage and scrambled eggs all piled high on a plate. I can get sour cream and salsa or home gravy poured over it if I ask. fancy? nope. delicious and hearty? oh yeah!


I think that's the point. That there is a world of difference between humble, but good, food and the drek that is Red Lobster and the Olive Garden. One isn't a food snob to point out that microwaved instant mashed potatoes or opening cans isn't "good food".


mommamae said:


> Seriously. In America we are SO RICH that our poor people are FAT. We're so stinking filthy rich that our poorest citizens overeat on processed junk sold to them by Sandra Lee on the Food Network.
> 
> We are so damned disgustingly morbidly rich that there are tens of thousands of Chefs prepared and trained by highly competitive "Culinary Arts" schools all over the country and very few of them are having a hard time getting a job.


I'm going to have to quibble with these two points. It is actually the poorest demographics which record the greatest percentage of obesity. In my hometown (NYC), it is the areas where people don't have access to grocery stores within walking distance, and instead must buy from convenience stores, that have record highs of obesity. It's the people on welfare, in slums, the uneducated and unemployed, which are startlingly overweight - because packaged food is cheaper than buying wholesome ingredients. Consider that you can get a hamburger, fries, and a sundae at McD's for $3. How much does it cost to make pasta primavera with chicken? An omelette with real veg and fresh herbs? Contrast the price of American "cheese" with the cost of any other cheese. WonderBread vs. a sprout or whole grain. Couple that with a lack of education and a lack of role modeling, and is it any wonder they're obese?

Also, many culinary students leave school and struggle to obtain even a normally decent job. They dump tens of thousands of dollars into their education, and then land a $10/hr line cook job, if they're lucky. I don't know where you got your intel on culinary graduates, but it's off.


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## mommamae

Shavy, you managed to utterly miss my point.

I was talking about extreme overabundance in this country and how it allows ridiculous arguments about what "real cooking" is to exist. How you took that as a chance to go off about McDonald's versus organic food, I haven't the foggiest idea.

Secondly, ten dollars an hour is still ten dollars an hour. It's a job which pays. I know many a college graduate living at home with their parents because the two year plus job search still isn't panning out. Recent culinary school graduates are in an industry that is experiencing growth when many others in this nation have come to a grinding halt or have even started to shrink. If you disagree, take it up with the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

"Employment of chefs, head cooks, and food preparation and serving supervisors is expected to increase by 6 percent over the 2008-18 decade, which is more slowly than the average for all occupations. Growth will be generated by increases in population, a growing variety of dining venues, and continued demand for convenience. As more people opt for the time-saving ease of letting others do the cooking, the need for workers to oversee food preparation and serving will increase."

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos330.htm


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## gonefishin

mommamae said:


> Seriously.* In America we are SO RICH *that our poor people are *FAT*. We're so *stinking filthy rich* that our *poorest citizens overeat* on processed junk sold to them by Sandra Lee on the Food Network. We are so *damned disgustingly morbidly rich* that there are tens of thousands of Chefs prepared and trained by highly competitive "Culinary Arts" schools all over the country and very few of them are having a hard time getting a job. Our commercials for food are down right pornographic and people get into arguments on internet forums about whether Red Lobster is an "insult" to cooking and mock the oversimplified recipes offered by a television personality on a network devoted to the cooking and preparation of food! Red Lobster,* fancy pants chefs *and Food Network are all pieces in the same puzzle, folks. Squabbling about which section of the puzzle is the most offensive is pretty* asinine.*
> 
> 'Cause when it's boiled down to the basics, cooking is about* keeping people fed so they don't starve to death*, and it doesn't take a whole hell of a lot to accomplish that. *Be grateful* you all live in the part of the world where the preparation and serving of food can be such a* Big Fat Dea*l(tm).


 How much do you think Americans should earn per year? How much do you think Americans should weigh? What should Americans do with any money you call extra?

You seem* very* resentful of Americans.

I hope you take care,

dan


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## kyheirloomer

I don't want to get in the middle of that argument, Mommamae. But your quote from the BLS doesn't support your contention. You're seeing the 6% growth figure, but missing the key point: _which is more slowly than the average for all occupations. _In other words, according to your own provided stats, jobs in the culinary industry are growing more slowly than the job market overall.


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## tylerm713

Statistics fail, IYAM.


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## gonefishin

tylerm713 said:


> Statistics fail, IYAM.


 You are what?


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## mommamae

Oh wow. I've never been misunderstood so drastically by so many people this quickly before. It's like a personal record or something... Anyway, the rest of you can take care and have fun debating this all you want, I'm bowing out and getting back to the real world where common sense and English syntax actually count for something. Cheers!

Oh, and the original point of this post... those comments are priceless. Absolutely the bitchiest remarks I have ever read before. I've never seen a group of people get that rabid over a simple how-to recipe before. But that's what the internet is for, right? Haha!


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## petemccracken

You're right, that recipe belongs on a can of English Peas.

But I would not put my name on such a recipe, nor would offer it on a video, TV program, or anything more than a passing comment or answer to a simple question.


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## gobblygook

gonefishin said:


> mommamae said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously.* In America we are SO RICH *that our poor people are *FAT*. We're so *stinking filthy rich* that our *poorest citizens overeat* on processed junk sold to them by Sandra Lee on the Food Network. We are so *damned disgustingly morbidly rich* that there are tens of thousands of Chefs prepared and trained by highly competitive "Culinary Arts" schools all over the country and very few of them are having a hard time getting a job. Our commercials for food are down right pornographic and people get into arguments on internet forums about whether Red Lobster is an "insult" to cooking and mock the oversimplified recipes offered by a television personality on a network devoted to the cooking and preparation of food! Red Lobster,* fancy pants chefs *and Food Network are all pieces in the same puzzle, folks. Squabbling about which section of the puzzle is the most offensive is pretty* asinine.*
> 
> 'Cause when it's boiled down to the basics, cooking is about* keeping people fed so they don't starve to death*, and it doesn't take a whole hell of a lot to accomplish that. *Be grateful* you all live in the part of the world where the preparation and serving of food can be such a* Big Fat Dea*l(tm).
> 
> 
> 
> How much do you think Americans should earn per year? How much do you think Americans should weigh? What should Americans do with any money you call extra?
> 
> You seem* very* resentful of Americans.
> 
> I hope you take care,
> 
> dan
Click to expand...

I read it, I'm American, born here and everything. I think that what she said is "spot on". Americans ARE fat. Our poor eat incredibly well compared to the poor in other countries. We have one of the highest standards of living in the world. I don't see where she resents us, she just "calls it like she sees it". It's not about how much she thinks we should earn, weigh, or do with our extra money, she's simply stating facts that we do earn nice livings, we are (as a country) obese, and we do have more than most of the world.


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## babytiger

Wow, I didn't think mentioning Sandra Lee would cause such a stir! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif

I would really hate to think that Sandra Lee's cooking is looked at as the same as average American, blue collar cooking. Just because folks don't have a lot of money, that doesn't mean that all they can do is put processed food together. I've watched some of her shows and what really annoyed me is that she could have easily used fresh ingredients to make some of the recipes, without having to spend more money or time. Nor would it make the recipes any harder. Yet, she, or the FN, chose to use processed ingredients.

No, I actually have NEVER eaten frosting off of a cake. I hate frosting, even as a kid. And even if I do like frosting, I would never add powder sugar, roll them into balls and tell people they are chocolate truffles.

I really don't get Red Lobster. Same with Outback, Olive Garden and the such. Frankly, all the food are pretty bad. AND, they are pricey! For the same price, I can get several meals at some local joints that actually serve good food.


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## gobblygook

mommamae said:


> Oh, and the original point of this post... those comments are priceless. Absolutely the bitchiest remarks I have ever read before. I've never seen a group of people get that rabid over a simple how-to recipe before. But that's what the internet is for, right? Haha!


Here's where I disagree with you wholeheartedly. My mother (and school) served canned English peas and canned asparagus. It wasn't until I was near 30 years old that I would touch either item again. Their fresh (or even flash-frozen in the case of peas) versions are NOTHING like their canned versions. Butter can fix lots of things, but not waterlogged English peas. If it were a recipe for whole kernel corn, everything else the same (can and butter), it would be truly simplistic, but not disgusting. You can doctor up a good number of canned veggies, but English peas are NOT something that should be canned. Try some canned asparagus one time and you will understand my disgust.


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## gobblygook

babytiger said:


> I really don't get Red Lobster. Same with Outback, Olive Garden and the such. Frankly, all the food are pretty bad. AND, they are pricey! For the same price, I can get several meals at some local joints that actually serve good food.


No matter where I go, I know I can walk into any of the above 3 chains and get exactly what I expect to get. The prices are competitive in their respective market segments and while some competitors are better, some are MUCH worse. These chains appeal to the majority. I dare say that in any market in America, given a RANDOM sampling of inhabitants, you could build a crappy Italian joint, an Olive Garden, and a fantastic Italian gourmet restaurant side by side and OG would garner the most business. Some would eat the lower-priced but less appealing food and some would gladly pay the premium for the gourmet restaurant, but the majority would choose the devil they know for the cost they accept.


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## shavy

> Originally Posted by *gobblygook*
> 
> No matter where I go, I know I can walk into any of the above 3 chains and get exactly what I expect to get. The prices are competitive in their respective market segments and while some competitors are better, some are MUCH worse. These chains appeal to the majority. I dare say that in any market in America, given a RANDOM sampling of inhabitants, you could build a crappy Italian joint, an Olive Garden, and a fantastic Italian gourmet restaurant side by side and OG would garner the most business. Some would eat the lower-priced but less appealing food and some would gladly pay the premium for the gourmet restaurant, but the majority would choose the devil they know for the cost they accept.


This could very well explain why in a city like NYC, where you have AMAZING food choices at every budget and taste level, chain restaurants like Olive Garden and McDonalds are still wildly popular among tourists. It boggles the mind how someone could come here and then opt to go to Fridays, but I guess the average American prefers familiarity in this area.



mommamae said:


> Shavy, you managed to utterly miss my point.
> 
> I was talking about extreme overabundance in this country and how it allows ridiculous arguments about what "real cooking" is to exist. How you took that as a chance to go off about McDonald's versus organic food, I haven't the foggiest idea.
> 
> Secondly, ten dollars an hour is still ten dollars an hour. It's a job which pays. I know many a college graduate living at home with their parents because the two year plus job search still isn't panning out. Recent culinary school graduates are in an industry that is experiencing growth when many others in this nation have come to a grinding halt or have even started to shrink. If you disagree, take it up with the Bureau of Labor Statistics:
> 
> "Employment of chefs, head cooks, and food preparation and serving supervisors is expected to increase by 6 percent over the 2008-18 decade, which is more slowly than the average for all occupations. Growth will be generated by increases in population, a growing variety of dining venues, and continued demand for convenience. As more people opt for the time-saving ease of letting others do the cooking, the need for workers to oversee food preparation and serving will increase."
> 
> http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos330.htm


I think the problem is that you think we're arguing about your original point. We're not. I was pointing out that things you presented as "facts", were in fact not fact at all. Nothing to do with whatever point you were trying to make.

Someone already mentioned the problems with your stated statistics, so I won't address that. I'd like to point out the flaw in your thinking about college grads who "are living at home and struggling for 2 years to find jobs", with the implication that spending thousands of dollars on culinary school somehow gives those graduates an upper hand in the $10-an-hour job market. It doesn't. It may give them an edge IN THE KITCHEN over an applicant with NO experience, but it will not give them an edge in the majority of kitchens over an applicant who has real on-the-job kitchen experience in a similar establishment (and zero schooling). And it gives them NO edge on a job applicant in any field OUTSIDE of food. The reason that many college grads aren't "finding work" is because they aren't LOOKING at $10/hr jobs. If they were willing to flip burgers for $10 an hour, they probably wouldn't be "job hunting for 2 years". I'm not saying it's understandable that they don't want to take a menial job that won't lead anywhere, doesn't look good on a resume, and isn't remotely in their field of interest/study, but the implication that culinary students are better equipped to find a job than they are is flat out wrong, and more than a bit ridiculous. Culinary students have a harder time than most occupations when it comes to post-graduate job placement, often externing (for free) or doing minimum or near-minimum wage work for years before they can work themselves up to something respectable. The most schools can do is refer them for externships and post a job board where students look forward to vying for the same 30 jobs as the rest of the student body.

Again, just addressing your fallacious statements, not making a point about the decadence of western society, or lack thereof.


----------



## babytiger

gobblygook said:


> babytiger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't get Red Lobster. Same with Outback, Olive Garden and the such. Frankly, all the food are pretty bad. AND, they are pricey! For the same price, I can get several meals at some local joints that actually serve good food.
> 
> 
> 
> No matter where I go, I know I can walk into any of the above 3 chains and get exactly what I expect to get. The prices are competitive in their respective market segments and while some competitors are better, some are MUCH worse. These chains appeal to the majority. I dare say that in any market in America, given a RANDOM sampling of inhabitants, you could build a crappy Italian joint, an Olive Garden, and a fantastic Italian gourmet restaurant side by side and OG would garner the most business. Some would eat the lower-priced but less appealing food and some would gladly pay the premium for the gourmet restaurant, but the majority would choose the devil they know for the cost they accept.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's because I'm in San Francisco and we have a lot of choices. But those chains are quite expensive compare to lots of other casual restaurants we have available. Most of those casual restaurants also serve much better food.


----------



## Iceman

Celebrity

A *celebrity* (sometimes referred to as a *celeb* in popular culture) is a person who is easily recognized in a society or culture.

Chef

A *kitchen chef* is a person who cooks professionally for other people. Although over time the term has come to describe any person

who cooks for a living, traditionally it refers to a highly skilled professional who is proficient in all aspects of food preparation.
[h1]Celebrity chef[/h1]
The term *celebrity chef* applies to a class of chefs who are well known for presenting cookery advice and demonstrations via mass media, especially television.

The term may also be applied to a historically famous chef such as Antoine Carême and Martino da Como.

Those are simple definitions. You don't have to like them, but that's it. _*EVERY*_ person cooking on TV fits those combined definitions. Rachel, Giada, Sandra and Paula too, are _"Celebrity Chefs". _

My goal is not _"to head a Red Lobster"_. Not at all that I would mind the regular pay, a heathcare plan and retirement savings options offered. Major corporate restaurants offer those things. Until you don't have/get them you don't realize just how important they are. No matter where you work, _"cooking mediocre food"_ is all on YOU. It doesn't matter where, if it comes out of your kitchen, it's got your name and fingerprints on it. If it's a mediocre dish, then you are a mediocre cook. *Shavy*, sweetheart, _Red Lobster, Appleby's, Denny's, Olive Garden, TGIF, et al_ are a big part of multi-billions of dining-out dollars. Whether you agree or not, they are America. 

I digress. Do you all watch TV food/cooking shows to learn anything or to help you really become a better cook/chef? It's OK if you do. I however, watch them for _*ENTERTAINMENT*_. I'm a guy. I prefer to watch pretty women for entertainment (in this realm), than guys. I would rather look at Giada than Mario. I'm funny like that. 

In no way at all do I consider ANY celebrity chef, even the ones that I think suck, _"a disgrace to our profession"_. I think at the very least they give people an interest in food/cooking/eating. People will never stop going out to eat. People go out to eat to get food like they see on TV. HELLO?!? That only helps those of us ITB. I don't think anything bad of _Red Lobster_. I was a guest. My host is a man from Australia on vacation, staying in a hotel almost attached to a RL location. He has never been there. I like RL for what they are. 

I've not seen "_The Devil Wears Prada". _I'd love to know any of the dishes put out by _FL_ or _Per Se _that were_ "trailing indicators" _of what restaurants are serving now. Please, help me out with that. 

For the money that the lowest paid *FN Celebrity Chef* makes, you can say that my food sucks and I am the worst chef on the planet. *TYVM.* All the way to the bank. *IT'S ENTERTAINMENT*. You don't have to respect me. 

TY *foodpump* for your comment. You have caught on to what I am saying. 

*Gunnar *....................

Quote:


> Is it at all possible that a recipe like this is just there to show how simple a dish might be? A simple dish with no complications at all, just heat it up and serve it.


Reading is fundamental. Listening is a skill. TV is for entertainment. Tell me this too please. Just how many at home non-culinarilly-skilled people even have the tools to steam anything without scalding themselves silly? 

It kills me in that some of you hate TV Celebrity Chefs, and major chain fast-food dining experiences. They are what they are. Live with it. LOL.


----------



## shavy

Points for your lovely formatting.



IceMan said:


> My goal is not _"to head a Red Lobster"_. Not at all that I would mind the regular pay, a heathcare plan and retirement savings options offered. Major corporate restaurants offer those things. Until you don't have/get them you don't realize just how important they are. No matter where you work, _"cooking mediocre food"_ is all on YOU. It doesn't matter where, if it comes out of your kitchen, it's got your name and fingerprints on it. If it's a mediocre dish, then you are a mediocre cook. *Shavy*, sweetheart, _Red Lobster, Appleby's, Denny's, Olive Garden, TGIF, et al_ are a big part of multi-billions of dining-out dollars. Whether you agree or not, they are America.
> 
> *You can say anything to me, if you couch it in affectionate terms. <3*
> 
> I digress. Do you all watch TV food/cooking shows to learn anything or to help you really become a better cook/chef? It's OK if you do. I however, watch them for _*ENTERTAINMENT*_. I'm a guy. I prefer to watch pretty women for entertainment (in this realm), than guys. I would rather look at Giada than Mario. I'm funny like that.
> 
> *The thing is, plenty of regular Americans DO watch food/cooking shows to learn something. A lot of people "learn to cook" by watching TV personalities. *
> 
> In no way at all do I consider ANY celebrity chef, even the ones that I think suck, _"a disgrace to our profession"_. I think at the very least they give people an interest in food/cooking/eating.
> 
> *Good point.*
> 
> For the money that the lowest paid *FN Celebrity Chef* makes, you can say that my food sucks and I am the worst chef on the planet. *TYVM.* All the way to the bank. *IT'S ENTERTAINMENT*. You don't have to respect me.
> 
> *IOW, what's most important to you is the paycheck, not putting out a product you're proud of. Or maybe it only matters in a restaurant kitchen, but when if you had the opportunity to go on TV and put corn-nuts on an apple-pie-filling chocolate-frosted angel food cake, you would jump at it, and not care that it was absolute garbage you're trying to pass off as acceptable food. Someone mentioned (maybe you?) that they would laugh all the way to the bank. It's my guess that this is what most of these TV personalities are doing.*
> 
> It kills me in that some of you hate TV Celebrity Chefs, and major chain fast-food dining experiences. They are what they are. Live with it. LOL.
> 
> *You really don't understand or see how someone who cares passionately about their craft, about making and serving the best food they possibly can, would take umbrage with someone putting out the aforementioned cake and calling it a great holiday dessert, and encouraging others to make it?*


----------



## petemccracken

IceMan said:


> ...It kills me in that some of you hate TV Celebrity Chefs, and major chain fast-food dining experiences. They are what they are. Live with it. LOL.


For me, "hate" is not really what I feel for some of the shows on FNTV or other networks. I will admit to a twitch, maybe even a twinge, of jealousy but that is overpowered by a feeling of, oh what, disappointment that the producers/investors/actors of many shows and restaurants demonstrate such disdain for the viewers/guests/customers that support such shows/businesses and that the viewers/guests/customers are so gullible.

Would I trade places with any one of them? Nope! Not for even double or triple the fame and/or fortune.

When the time comes, all I will be remembered for is my honesty and integrity as well as my reputation for doing my best.


----------



## gunnar

IceMan said:


> *Gunnar *....................
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Is it at all possible that a recipe like this is just there to show how simple a dish might be? A simple dish with no complications at all, just heat it up and serve it.
> 
> 
> 
> Reading is fundamental. Listening is a skill. TV is for entertainment. Tell me this too please. Just how many at home non-culinarilly-skilled people even have the tools to steam anything without scalding themselves silly?
> 
> It kills me in that some of you hate TV Celebrity Chefs, and major chain fast-food dining experiences. They are what they are. Live with it. LOL.
Click to expand...

Oh I read it, it was pretty simple to understand too. I just replied that steamed green beans are just as easy and tastier. your counter argument is that steamed vege are dangerous and or difficult? steampots come in quite a number of beginner pots and pan sets, people usually use them to strain boiled vege or pasta. I also think that if you can boil pasta and warm a jar of Ragu, or reheat a can of peas in butter your probably competent enough to figure out how to simply steam some vege without maiming or disfiguring yourself and have IMO a better dish.

I simply stated at the beginning of all this that it's a sad recipe, not worth the effort to post it. I have to agree with Pete McCracken it belongs on a can of peas.

As far as chain restaurants, I have a personal belief that it is important to support local business, not chains. If more people supported them then they could also afford to give nice benefits to their employees.


----------



## Iceman

_*"anything to me, .......... couch ............... affectionate"*_

OMG!!!!! I'm dieing here.

As for the _"learning"_ idea .....This is a forum of and for culinary people of the world. _"We"_ are all not "regular Americans", or regular anything else I think.

I'm good w/ acronyms, but I can't get "IOW", or "IYAM" from an earlier post. TIA for some clarification.

Paychecks are very important to me. I can't be proud of much w/o a paycheck for support. NO, I'm not saying that I'm a whore, it just ainte easy being poor. I've put out a lot of things that I wasn't proud of, but they were the best I could do w/ what I was given. Sometimes you just gotta do whatcha gotta do to get the job done. Professionals get jobs done. YES, I would be happy to laugh all the way to the bank sometime. The nearest future possible would be nice.

I understand all kinds of things. I have all kinds of passion. However, I don't tell people how to live or earn their livings (for the most part), believe or act (again for the most part). There is so much bad regular (so-to-speak) TV on that I'm not going to let TV food shows get me upset. I'm sorry if it offends you, but _Denny's_ is one of my absolute favorite 4:00 am places to eat.

I love your idealism *Pete*, but I gotta earn a living. I am for hire though, if you're looking for a chef.

*Gunnar*, I doubt highly the average person's ability to steam food without hurting themselves. I've got a lot of experience with "average people". The "average person" is not very bright or safe. Sorry for my negativity. As far as chain restaurant employment, where do you think it comes from? People aren't imported to work at chain places. Locals have just as much chance.


----------



## shavy

IceMan said:


> _*"anything to me, .......... couch ............... affectionate"*_
> 
> OMG!!!!! I'm dieing here.
> 
> *Men. *
> 
> As for the _"learning"_ idea .....This is a forum of and for culinary people of the world. _"We"_ are all not "regular Americans", or regular anything else I think.
> 
> *Weren't you just discussing "regular America"? It was in that context that I made my comment (which I thought was pretty unambiguous, but hey, it's the internet).*
> 
> I'm good w/ acronyms, but I can't get "IOW", or "IYAM" from an earlier post. TIA for some clarification.
> 
> *IOW = In other words. I don't begin to understand the other.*
> 
> Paychecks are very important to me. I can't be proud of much w/o a paycheck for support. NO, I'm not saying that I'm a whore, it just ainte easy being poor. I've put out a lot of things that I wasn't proud of, but they were the best I could do w/ what I was given. Sometimes you just gotta do whatcha gotta do to get the job done. Professionals get jobs done. YES, I would be happy to laugh all the way to the bank sometime. The nearest future possible would be nice.
> 
> I understand all kinds of things. I have all kinds of passion. However, I don't tell people how to live or earn their livings (for the most part), believe or act (again for the most part).
> 
> *Nobody's telling anybody anything. They're just saying that they don't like those shows and that those people aren't culinary professionals who truly care about the food they produce. I'm not sure what your dander is up about, but I think you're misunderstanding others here.*
> 
> There is so much bad regular (so-to-speak) TV on that I'm not going to let TV food shows get me upset. I'm sorry if it offends you, but _Denny's_ is one of my absolute favorite 4:00 am places to eat.
> 
> *I don't recall anyone being offended by anyone else's enjoyment of crappy chain restaurants. Everyone likes their own thing, gezunte hait. However, there's a difference between the food put out by a high school kid at Pizza Hut or Denny's, who's just working for their paycheck, and the food put out at an inexpensive diner by someone who actually cares about quality and cooks because they love it. Let's not confuse the two, even if they both have their place and even if you enjoy them.*


As an aside, is there any way to edit quotes or use html here? This comments-within-quotes thing is kind of annoying.


----------



## gunnar

IceMan said:


> *Gunnar*, I doubt highly the average person's ability to steam food without hurting themselves. I've got a lot of experience with "average people". The "average person" is not very bright or safe. Sorry for my negativity.
> 
> _It's your opinion, you are entitled to have one. No need to be sorry for any implied negativity, I see how people drive cars too. It does raise some concerns._
> 
> As far as chain restaurant employment, where do you think it comes from? People aren't imported to work at chain places. Locals have just as much chance.
> 
> _yes they do, but if I have the choice to eat at a place where I might meet the owner at the grocery store or a place that has a District Manager of chain outlet #157- #172. Guess which one I will choose to eat at? That's a bit simplified really, but I am not trying to push a political agenda or press my beliefs on you, just saying._


----------



## momandchef

> Gunnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's the equivalent of a Shakespearean actor coming out and saying "uh..To be or not to...uh... whatever". and then farting on stage.
Click to expand...

I dang near choked on my sweet tea when I read that! Gunnar you are my new favorite person!

Yeah, the Paula Deen English Peas "recipe" is a bit of a joke, bless her heart. I do have a soft spot for her, she reminds me of my own darling grandma, bling and all.

As for Sandra Lee, I can't stand her. She doesn't cook. She barely re-heats. I can see her place "in the world" as there are housewives out there that are ok with feeding their families pre-packaged junk. They feel good that they can "fool" their friends at bunko into thinking they made those cute little cupcakes from scratch. (I don't agree with it, being a mom & wife and a chef.) I don't care for the majority of the people on Food Network. I enjoy watching Alton Brown, he is funny and informative.


----------



## tylerm713

FWIW, "IYAM" means "if you ask me".

And I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on the definition of a "celebrity chef". You seem to think that anyone that cooks on TV is a celebrity chef. However, I believe that you must be a chef to be a celebrity chef. If we need to go into the definition of a chef, then we can. Sandra Lee isn't a chef, no matter how you slice it.

Your arguement, by extention, would mean that Joe down at the local dive is a celebrity chef because he's known by all the regulars as the guy that makes good burgers. He's not a celebrity, but since he's a chef, that means he's a celebrity chef. I don't buy it.


----------



## momandchef

ITA with you about Denny's.

4 am after a night of drinking their french toast tastes mighty good...As I remember it from my college days of course. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif

As much as I love good food, I can appreciate the crap too. IMO there is nothing better for a hangover than a big Dr. Pepper and Taco Bell. When I was pregnant with my oldest I was sick for so long and the only thing I craved was Taco Bell.

Shoot KFC's mac and cheese, I love it. The pasta is so over cooked, it's not even funny, it's nuclear orange but It's yummy.


----------



## petemccracken

IceMan said:


> ...I love your idealism *Pete*, but I gotta earn a living. I am for hire though, if you're looking for a chef.


Well IceMan, in the last 50 years I've never "had a job", oh yes, I've been paid, sometimes quite well, but I've never thought of ANYTHING I've done for compensation as a *job*! I've even appeared on TV cooking with unprocessed, raw, ingredients!

And I've had a lot of people work with me and for me. The ones who worked "for me", did not last long, the ones who worked "with me", I still work with when the occasion presents itself.

Never had one who "works with me" say, or even intimate, "that's good enough" or "that's the best I can do with what I have", that only comes from those who wanted to "work for me", they gotta make a living, you know.

Perhaps you think of me as an *idealist*, however, I've never had to find work or look for a job, work and job(s) always seem to find me, sometimes even with pay attached.

Good luck in your future endeavors.


----------



## Iceman

A long time ago, when I was still in high school, we used to play hockey in my back yard on Friday nights. On Friday afternoons we would pool all the money we had for beer. We would drink half of it shoveling the pond at the end of my yard. We would take a couple hours break to try and sober up. That night we would play until we either ran out of balls (we didn't use pucks, we used bad tennis balls from an indoor court by my house) or we ran out of beer. We're talking +/- 2:00 am. We would then go to _Denny's_. For me it was cheese soup/clam chowder and a patty melt.

*Shavy,* love ..........

"American" the first time was in meaning to where the greatest % of Americans are spending their fast-food dining money. The second reference was in regards to the completely global membership of this entire forum. I don't really think many people *here *would watch food TV to learn anything. It's not that _"anybody"_ was telling _"anyone" "anything", _My point was that I don't begrudge any celebrity chefs for what they do on Food TV.


----------



## shavy

IceMan said:


> *Shavy,* love ..........
> 
> *Whoooo.... :swoons: Keep 'em comin'!*
> 
> "American" the first time was in meaning to where the greatest % of Americans are spending their fast-food dining money. The second reference was in regards to the completely global membership of this entire forum. I don't really think many people *here *would watch food TV to learn anything. It's not that _"anybody"_ was telling _"anyone" "anything", _My point was that I don't begrudge any celebrity chefs for what they do on Food TV.
> 
> *I've totally lost track of whatever it is we're arguing about (must be too much starin' into those big baby whatever-color-eyes-you-have), but I agree with your last two points. I think the "average american" has "average expectations" about how "average food" should taste. I also think that people like Ina Garten and formerly Mario Batali encouraged the curious among those viewers to strive for something more than "average food of average taste". It's not incomprehensible that they even inspired average people to become wonderful professional chefs. That doesn't mean we can't cringe when seeing some of the monstrosities being presented on TV, or disagree that Aunt Sandy ain't no "chef" (or at least, not a good one, if she's sober when creating and presenting those masterpieces). You might not begrudge them because you agree with the laughing-to-the-bank mentality, but there are scores of people who wouldn't present that drek at any price. Even fame lady-of-the-evening Anthony Bourdain has said there are things to which he will not stoop. Granted we all have our price, but apparently some people feel Celebrity Chefdom isn't worth it, and are appalled by what's passed off as 'cooking'. To each their own.* /img/vbsmilies/smilies/drinkbeer.gif


----------



## petemccracken

IceMan said:


> _..._My point was that I don't begrudge any celebrity chefs for what they do on Food TV.


I agree with regards to "celebrity chefs", however, those are few and far between!

If you are talking about Mario, Emeril, Ming Sai, etal, no problem.

However, there IS a difference between "celebrity chefs" and "celebrities"!

Where one "draws the line" may be very subjective, but the line is still there!

I, for one, do not feel that everyone that has a TV show is a "celebrity chef", though a successful TV show may be an important component in becoming a "celebrity". My goodness, Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, and a host of others are "celebrities", but that doesn't mean I have to respect what they say or do, and when it comes to food, I do have my opinion.


----------



## Iceman

LOL *Pete*. I am so very happy for you that you are so financially well off. I however, am still only a mortal. _*<< edited >>*_

The _*BLACK HAWKS*_ put a very nice beating on Colorado this evening. I've indulged in a bit of the grape. I'm feeling really professionally subordinated right now since post #52. I'm just going to brag a little bit here to make myself feel a little better.

I was invited this spring to be a part of an event in Washington DC. It was an invitation to facilitate a cool movement by White House Assistant Chef Sam Kass. It was on the south lawn of the White House with the First Lady and a whole bunch of cool people. I had to pass because I was so broke at the time that I qualified for government cheese. No funding was available to cover costs associated with attending. I was quite aggravated to say the least. Yeah, I got invited to cook at the White House. I probably would have never cleared security anyway, I'm told. But hey, as it was I'm sure you were invited too.


----------



## foodpump

Whoa......

Just got back from work, and boy has this thread taken off.

Well, I guess one way to  look at it is to use James Douglas Morrison's famous words (Jim Morrison of the Doors) : 

ALIVE!!! She cried....

What we need is a seedy bar with a pool table and lots of beers, 'cause if we were all there in person we'd probably all be buying each other rounds.

Hey, it's just opinions,

And uh, Iceman, it's my opinion that the Blackhawks won't make the playoffs this year, but the Canucks will..................


----------



## petemccracken

IceMan said:


> LOL *Pete*. I am so very happy for you that you are so financially well off. I however, am still only a mortal. _*<< edited >>...*_


My apologies if I misled you, "financially well off", is a condition I have never been fortunate to enjoy. Unless I receive compensation for my efforts, I do not eat. Fortunately for me, I'm not so sure about anyone else, people seek me out and do compensate me. I've never regretted the choices I've made nor the results therefrom.


> .. But hey, as it was I'm sure you were invited too.


I'm certain it was an oversight, though it may possibly be a result of my political bent, my invitation for that particular event was never received. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif I have been fortunate to have been invited and attended several White House functions, albeit not in a "culinary capacity".

And, like you, I am definitely "mortal", I just dislike others dictating when and what I must do, though I did serve in the military. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/talker.gif


----------



## kyheirloomer

_This comments-within-quotes thing is kind of annoying._

I've always felt the same, Shavy, so simply cut and paste. In my case I put the quoted part in italics, just because.


----------



## chrose

mommamae said:


> Oh wow. I've never been misunderstood so drastically by so many people this quickly before. It's like a personal record or something... Anyway, the rest of you can take care and have fun debating this all you want, I'm bowing out and getting back to the real world where common sense and English syntax actually count for something. Cheers!
> 
> Oh, and the original point of this post... those comments are priceless. Absolutely the bitchiest remarks I have ever read before. I've never seen a group of people get that rabid over a simple how-to recipe before. But that's what the internet is for, right? Haha!


I love angry people /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif they're so self righteous and easy to poke /img/vbsmilies/smilies/thumb.gif


----------



## ishbel

Can I just add a caveat that I do not know the FN - we have a couple of satellite/cable 'Food' channels here in the UK, but mostly they are foreign programmes and repeats of programmes broadcast by our terrestrial channels such as the BBC and Channel 4 (with the likes of Ramsay, Smith, Worrall-Thomson, Lawson et al) which is where I watch them....

I believe that there are 'Celebrity' cooks - eg we have St Delia.  She has helped many a non-cook to learn the basics of cooking and baking, but always says 'I am not a chef'. She is, however, a wonderful cook - and I can say that from experience, I have never had a recipe of hers that hasn't done exactly what it says in the text (would that famous chef-writers were so exacting). Others include Nigella Lawson, the Irish cooks from the Ballymaloe cookery school, the 'Hairy Bikers, etc.  All of whom are worth watching and I learn something from every one of them. 

 Then there are celebrity chefs like Gordon Ramsay, Jean-Christoph Novelli, Michel Roux Jr and others.  THEY are chefs, trained and with successful restaurants.

Most of the American 'cooks' I've just about heard of, and have never bothered to watch on TV.  I can't cope with the 'cup' measurements!


----------



## linny29

Gunnar said:


> Of course this should be ridiculed. It's the equivalent of a Shakespearean actor coming out and saying "uh..To be or not to...uh... whatever". and then farting on stage. If you like Paula Dean, fine. Doesn't bother me one bit, but I can see no defense for this "phoned in performance" of a recipe, it's just sad.
Click to expand...

I can't agree more Gunnar. Paula Dean is all about southern homemade cooking so this recipe is just meaningless filler, just keeping up with her contractual schedule of recipes and is a slap in the face to anybody who likes her show, which includes me! Sandra Lee's show is based on cheating a little to get dinner done fast and easy so you are getting what you are advertised ... I do not like her style or show because it is too simplex for me but her show is very popular and growing which I guess makes sense since no one seems to have the time to do anything anymore!

I like watching Food Network but it is very much a business and most of the cooks/chefs are in it for the money and not the love! Some of them are doing several shows, their own magazine, their own restaurant, their website and now I see some of them on the new Cooking channel ... I think they are just stretching the material kinda of thin sometimes.


----------



## kyheirloomer

I think y'all are missing something.

Because we are cooks, we sneer at the idea of needing instructions for cooking a can of peas in some butter. But let's keep in mind that we're now into the third generation who confuses microwaving with cooking. Many of these people really do not know any basics, and for them mixing canned veggies with butter is a revelation. I see this all the time with the people I teach.

People like that, don't forget, are precisely FN's audience. So anything even a half-step beyond fast food and take-out is an advance for them. Shows like Semi-Homemade, and 30-minute meals, and Cooking for Real, and all the others based around shortcuts will continue to be popular, because for their intended audiences they are advanced techniques.

The saving grace is when FN makes a mistake in sheduling. When Mellisa DeArabian started her show it was scheduled immediately after Sandra's. Sandra, in that tone of breathless wonder she affects, would say something like ".....and this only costs 18 dollars and 14 cents to feed four people." Then Mellissa would come out, and, using real foods and products, would produce dinner for four for ten bucks or less.

While there's no documentation, I'm convinced a certain percentage of viewers concluded, "hey! For less money, and in about the same time, I can actually cook a wholesome meal," and went on from there to become home cooks. Those are the FN viewers who eventually become Cheftalk members.

I'm reminded about a great line in one of John Gierach's books. He was describing the St. Vrain, a small, middling trout stream where he had a cabin. Nothing at all like the storied trout streams of the west. And his buddy responds, "it's good enough for who it's for."

Same goes for those shortcuts and make-believe cooking shows. They're good enough for who they're for. And some of the viewers are encouraged to go on and fish the Yellowstone.


----------



## gunnar

KYHeirloomer said:


> I think y'all are missing something.
> 
> Because we are cooks, we sneer at the idea of needing instructions for cooking a can of peas in some butter. But let's keep in mind that we're now into the third generation who confuses microwaving with cooking. Many of these people really do not know any basics, and for them mixing canned veggies with butter is a revelation. I see this all the time with the people I teach.
> 
> People like that, don't forget, are precisely FN's audience. So anything even a half-step beyond fast food and take-out is an advance for them. Shows like Semi-Homemade, and 30-minute meals, and Cooking for Real, and all the others based around shortcuts will continue to be popular, because for their intended audiences they are advanced techniques.
> 
> The saving grace is when FN makes a mistake in sheduling. When Mellisa DeArabian started her show it was scheduled immediately after Sandra's. Sandra, in that tone of breathless wonder she affects, would say something like ".....and this only costs 18 dollars and 14 cents to feed four people." Then Mellissa would come out, and, using real foods and products, would produce dinner for four for ten bucks or less.
> 
> While there's no documentation, I'm convinced a certain percentage of viewers concluded, "hey! For less money, and in about the same time, I can actually cook a wholesome meal," and went on from there to become home cooks. Those are the FN viewers who eventually become Cheftalk members.
> 
> I'm reminded about a great line in one of John Gierach's books. He was describing the St. Vrain, a small, middling trout stream where he had a cabin. Nothing at all like the storied trout streams of the west. And his buddy responds, "it's good enough for who it's for."
> 
> Same goes for those shortcuts and make-believe cooking shows. They're good enough for who they're for. And some of the viewers are encouraged to go on and fish the Yellowstone.





PeteMcCracken said:


> You're right, that recipe belongs on a can of English Peas.
> 
> But I would not put my name on such a recipe, nor would offer it on a video, TV program, or anything more than a passing comment or answer to a simple question.


KYH, I get what you are saying but Pete still said it best. Butter on vegetables has been around since butter was made.


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## chrislehrer

To my mind, KYH gets at the heart of the issue -- although, as often happens, we don't quite agree.

By way of clarification, consider, not peas, but "edamame beans" (i.e. soybeans). When these started to hit the larger markets, they were touted -- with some justice -- as a superfood in all kinds of ways. But what can you do with them? People heard, "oh, you boil or nuke them or something, and put salt on them." And that's fine, but it's kind of limited. People needed instructions. Alton Brown -- not one of my favorite people but good with this one -- did an episode about soybeans, and he had a number of suggestions, most very simple and basically solid, straightforward ways to prepare and present the beans. Good for him, sez I.

Okay, so let's suppose, as KYH rightly points out, that a huge percentage of Americans have no idea what to do with a can of peas. They honestly do not know: do you just nuke them? In the can or out of it? (Serious question!) Do you put salt on, and how much, precisely? Or what? Do you dump the water? So by this logic, Food Network puts this recipe forth to make sure people have a clue what to do with a can of peas -- Can'o'peas 101. So far, I'm with KYH.

Problem is, that's not how the thing is presented. Nothing says "this is a basic how-to if you don't know what to do." It's presented exactly the same way as Ms. Lee's recipe, which is emphatically not a question of, "gee, I have some frosting, but I have no idea what you're supposed to do with it."

That recipe, in fact, is in my opinion quite disgusting. What boggles my mind is that most recipes for actual truffles -- the ones made from actual chocolate, cream, eggs, and so forth -- are so ridiculously simple. If you use something like Toll-House chips, you can make scads of decent truffles for very little money. So why would you want to use premade frosting, full of all kinds of anti-drying preservatives and artificial flavorings? This I do not understand. It seems basically stupid, and since Ms. Lee actually attended the Cordon Bleu, if memory serves, it's also dishonest: she knows better.

Something I think Emeril Lagasse tried to do -- and I _know_ Julia Child and Jacques Pepin tried to do -- was to present extremely simple, basic recipes _in a context_. You'd say, "okay, here's something, look how ridiculously simple that is, right? Now here's another really simple thing -- you can do that blindfolded, right? Easy. Okay, so let's put those two things together, and add this very simple bit of technique, and lo and behold, you've got _real serious cooking_ going on here, folks! Bam!" What they were all trying to show -- Martin Yan, too, for that matter -- was what we all know here at ChefTalk: serious cooking is not different in kind from basic cooking, it just requires a little more knowledge and attention. And once you have that knowledge passably deeply, the attention lessens, and what used to seem like big-deal cooking now seems like ultra-basics, and you're starting to get in arguments with Escoffier about the best way to poelė a chicken. And so on.

What ticks me off about Sandra Lee and most of these folks on FN -- which I no longer watch, actually, except once in a long while Iron Chef -- is that they present what they're doing as instructional, but then they basically lie. Honestly, Sandra Lee knows better, but she refuses to show anyone how to do solid basics that everyone needs to know; instead she tells everyone that knowing how to cook isn't necessary because you can just reheat garbage and make it look as though you cooked it. It'd be quicker, simpler, and tastier to make it yourself, but she doesn't tell you that. She seems to me a pure symptom of several of the worst things about how Americans eat today -- which is not to say that she is all that much of a cause of them, let it be said.


----------



## kyheirloomer

_KYH, I get what you are saying but Pete still said it best. Butter on vegetables has been around since butter was made._

So, Gunnar, your argument isn't with the recipe, per se, but where it appears? Pete said the recipe belongs on a can of English peas. And perhaps he's right. But if it's good enough to go there, it's good enough for Paula Deen to tell her viewers and readers about. Why? Because they are, by and large, the same people, folks who have minimal cooking knowledge at best. Sure, peas and butter have been around since Lazerous was a corporal. But if you don't know about the combo, does it matter where you first learn about it?

Let me ask you this. If Paula had said to add some chopped mint as well as the butter, would you still feel so strongly about it? What if she'd started with frozen peas instead of canned, and walked her readers through turning them into buttered peas with mint? Is that more of a "real" recipe?

Chris, I don't know where we're disagreeing, other than you've set up your usual straw man and expect me to tilt with it.

My comments were specific to the peas & butter recipe. You turn that around and make it sound as if I'm defending Sandra Lee---when anyone whose been a member here more than ten minutes knows how I feel about her. Here's a woman who turned her back on her expensive training in order to promote and encourage the use of crap, and to convince people who, unfortunately do not know any better, that quality and cost are not part of the food equation. I'm convinced this is why they moved Mellisa's show. She was, by the very nature of what she does, showing Sandra up for the phony that she is.

The sad thing is that most popular cooking "education" follows her path. As you know, I'm on a semi-soft diet. Today I saw a BH&G special publication on winter soups. Without taking the time to browse through it I bought a copy, figuring I might pick up a few ideas. There are ideas aplenty. All of which need serious adapting because they're all based on canned and premade ingredients. F'rinstance, there's a recipe for Chicken-Pasta Soup with Pesto. Sounds like a possibility, right? Here's the ingredients list: 2 14-ounce cans reduced sodium chicken broth, 1 pound skinless, boneless chicken breast halves or thighs, cubed, 1 14.5-ounce can diced tomatoes with basil, garlic, and oregano, undrained, 1/2 cup dried orzo pasta, 1 cup chopped zucchini, 1 tsp finely shredded lemon peel, 1 tablespoon lemon juice, 4-6 tablespoons purchased basil pesto.

In short, it could have come directly out of Sandra's playbook. And it is not, unfortunately, all that uncommon.


----------



## foodpump

Reading the last few posts--from KYH and Chris L, I think I've had a paradigim shift: 

There are people there who don't know how to feed themselves.  They eat 3 meals a day, are over 30 years old, and would never in a million years figure out to buy a whole chicken, use the bones for stock, leg meat for soup, and brsts for dinner the next day.

I dunno, I'm still gobstruck.....

True, I've been cooking for almost 30 years now.  But then, even as a 10 yr old, I'd ruin my Mom's cookbooks, her cookware and "experiment" with her ingredients.  It's not that I knew I wanted to become a cook then, I was just interested, just as interested in taking apart appliances and hockey.

I've always thought of cooking as a survival skill.  How is it that fully grown adults don't know how to heat up a can of peas?

True, I've been a professional cook for all my life, but that doesn't mean I haven't had the interest or time to learn other surival skills.  Like learning enough about a car in order to keep one on the road for many years and not get taken when I need repair work.  Enough about plumbing to put in new faucets or a toilet, and enough to go and get the right tools or parts from the Home despot--because everyone else there is even more clueless than I am  IF anyone's around......  Enough about electrical to leave it alone and call an electrican--other than putting in light fixtures.  And enough about woodworking and carpentry to build furniture for my home, my kids, and my store while keeping all my fingers.

So if cooking is one of the most basic survival skills, why do people need reheating instructions on a can of peas?

This ranks right up there with my bro-in law calling me up and asking me to help him put together a simple Ikea shelf.  At the time, I never thought I'd hear anything so pathetic


----------



## kyheirloomer

_How is it that fully grown adults don't know how to heat up a can of peas?_

How is it? Who knows all the societal pressures which have led us to this. But the fact is, many of them don't.

Here is a story. In truth, a story. Two years ago we suffered a major ice storm. Power was out. Deliveries impossible. A local radio station had a call in show, where folks could share their stories, complain, etc.

One woman called on Friday. Her tale: The power had been off since Tuesday. But, she said, they were able to keep the house warm by burning wood in the fireplace. "But we haven't had a hot meal in four days."

I would not make that up. Four days burning wood nonstop and she couldn't figure out how to make a hot meal.

It go even better. "We've been ok until now," she continued. "But the wood is getting low." Uh, huh. The world is littered with downed branches and whole trees, but she has no wood to burn. I guess if it doesn't come in those shrink-wrapped little bundles it isn't firewood.

What's sad, of course, is that she isn't all that exceptional.


----------



## chefross

The food industry has not helped at all in that they perpetuate the ignorance of cooking and eating. For instance those pizza breads that Stouffer's makes would include a commercial on how to microwave them and show in the ad as that and only that for dinner. When I talk to co-workers about what they ate for dinner the past night, it is almost always one thing.

"Oh I had a BLT for dinner" or "I made macaroni and cheese for dinner last night."

Is that all? No salad, or vegetable or protein?  Many people I come in contact with do not know how to cook nor eat. It is sad.


----------



## kyheirloomer

And yet, when exposed to it, many of them do appreciate good food, and want more of it.

Many of Friend Wife's co-workers, for instance, have told her things like, "you have the best lunches." When they're told it's just leftovers, they're in awe. "You mean you eat like that all the time?"

Yet, it's nothing most folks here would consider particularly special. Yesterday, for instance, her lunch was a bowl of oyster stew and a wedge of potato/olive frittata.

As a result of seeing, and sometimes tasting, her lunches, several of them have evinced a desire to learn more about cooking. The problem is, they either don't know where to turn for the basics, or can't afford cooking classes (when they can even find them). This is the market FN should be addressing. But they'd rather be telling us that being an Air Force vet and former DJ are, somehow, criteria for having a cooking show.


----------



## Iceman

WOW. You guys sure are hard on the rest of the world. Is the view really good from up on that mount you all sit on? LOL. Maybe this philosophy might help a little bit. It gets my by every day.

_*"Live and Let Live."*_

If all the rest of the world knew how to cook like us, would there be any jobs?


----------



## pete

> If all the rest of the world knew how to cook like us, would there be any jobs?


IceMan, you should change "world" to "USA". Much of the world can cook like most of us chefs, or at least, much closer to us than those in the US. It has only been the last few generations that have forgotten how to cook. Besides, even if everyone relearned how to cook there would always be a need for chefs. Just because people can cook, doesn't mean that they do it all the time. I can cook like crazy, but we still often eat out. Believe me there will always be a place for cooks and chefs in this world.

On to the OP, and the recipe that brought this about. While I was kind of appalled by the simplicity of the recipe, and that it was presented on FN's website, what appalled me more was the fact that she used canned peas. This may be a personal thing, but I think canned peas are one of the most disgusting things ever invented. At least use frozen peans, which aren't bad at all in my opinion.

As for the whole shortcut issue, when Rachel Ray first started 30 minute meals I thought it was halfway decent. She had some great ideas and with so many families that are dual income, I thought the idea had value. Unfortunately, this trend has gone on way too long and now that any decent shortcut ideas have been used up, they have moved into the realm of crap, just to keep things going. Shortcuts have their time and place, but some of the stuff they try passing off is just gross. And you are right, some of these "shortcuts" aren't really short cuts, when you consider how quickly one can cook it from scratch, i.e. fresh vegetables vs. canned or frozen.

Finally, in response to comments about chain restaurants. While I won't totally condemn them, I think that they have done a great disservice to this country. The food is mediocre, at best, but they have convinced many people that what they serve is great!!! Sorry, but the fish they serve at Red Lobster just can't compare with what is served at little Mom and Pop places, Olive garden can't hold a candle to most small, independent Italian joints, nor can Outback or Lonestar outshine a "real" steak house, and except for the steakhouse example, to eat at these independent places won't cost you much more than the big chains, and sometimes even cost less. Chains also have had the unfortunate effect of homogenizing the American culinary scene, in many ways. Part of the joy of travelling is experiencing different foods, but the general public has been convinced that consistency trumps adverture when it comes to eating. What' s the point of visiting New Orleans if you are just going to eat at the Hard Rock instead of the little gumbo shop? Why travel to Chicago, just to eat at Friday's when you can try a deep dish pizza (regarding the other thread in the forums on this topic, deep dish rocks, sorry folks....NY style thin crust is awesome also, but if you've never tried a Chicago deep dish don't be so quick to dismiss!). Go to Boston and eat at Chili's, when you are so close to the Ocean and great seafood? But these places are packed with tourists. I don't get it.


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## linny29

I still love the FN mostly for the competition shows like Chopped or FN Challenge or the show that discover foods like DDD or MvF but very rarely watch the actual cooking shows. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/chef.gif


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## kyheirloomer

_If all the rest of the world knew how to cook like us, would there be any jobs? _

Don't know how old you are, IceMan, but this is not only a simplistic view, it's historically incorrect.

Until the 1950s, virtually everybody cooked. Or at least knew how to. Families generally ate together at a meal prepared at home. Yet, in all the time preceeding it, there were plenty of restaurants, plenty of professional cooks. Perhaps the one major difference is that, for most people, restaurant dining was a special event.

Starting in the '50s convenience products became all the rage. Every modern woman used packaged and premade stuff. Cookbooks and ladies magazines touted the next great labor saving foodstuff, and things like cream of X soup were considered ingredients for haute cuisine. Frozen foods, particularly the notorious TV Dinners and fish sticks, opened the door even further to non-cookery. Then the microwave oven drove the final nail on the concept of actually cooking.

Come the turn of this century, and we moved a step further away from cooking. More and more people bought into the take-out or go-out every night idea, using "our busy lifestyles" as an excuse. Concurrent with that has been a movement back to real cooking. There have been various pressures behind this movement. But the basic problem is, the people who now want to reverse things and learn how to cook lack the basic skills the older of us learned at our mothers' knees. And there are few places they can go to learn them. Good cooking consistes of using good techniques to manipulate good ingredients.

One would hope that a network devoted to food would know that, and use it as it's baseline. Originally that was the case. FN's lineup were devoted to teaching techniques and methods. But there was a change in direction, and the stars who made FN what it was were all replaced by the current crop of non-chefs who are more concerened with schtick and schlock than with any substance at all.


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## Iceman

*OH MY EVERLOVING GOODNESS!!!!!*


> _(Me) If all the rest of the world knew how to cook like us, would there be any jobs? _
> 
> (You) Don't know how old you are, IceMan, but this is not only a simplistic view, it's historically incorrect.


I WAS JUST MAKING A SIMPLE CONVERSATIONAL STATEMENT!!!

Sometimes you members/posters/repliers put _WAY WAY WAY_ too much thought into this stuff. My next quote is from my very first reply. 


> Is it all possible that a recipe like this is just there to show how simple a dish might be? A simple dish with no complications at all, just heat it up and serve it.


I'll ask the question again. _IS IT AT ALL POSSIBLE!?!?_


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## ishbel

The day I need instruction from someone about how to open a tin of peas is the day I KNOW I'm past it and suffering from Alzheimer's. And it would be proof positive, as I have NEVER used tinned peas.

IceMan - you really think that only Americans can cook?  That the rest of us in the world are ignorant of food:  its preparation and culture?  BWAAAAHAAAAAAA. One of the most insidious things about globalisation is that so many of the lower grade, crappy US chains have invaded Europe, for instance, KFC, The Outback (I ate there once, at the invitation of a friend who knew I had australian relatives - there is NO similarity, believe me, between THAT crappy chain and Australian food), McDonalds and Starbucks, for starters.

Your smartairse comments about chain foods being so good is galling to those of us (both outwith the USA and within its borders) who can cook.


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## Iceman

_*FOR THE LOVE OF GOODNESS!!!*_

Find for me PLEASE, please find where I say anywhere _"..... only Americans can cook? That the rest of [you] in the world are ignorant of food: its preparation and culture?"_ 

*Reading is fundamental. Listening is a skill. *


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## ishbel

> If all the rest of the world knew how to cook like us, would there be any jobs?


Did you type this?

For a self-professed 'Chef' you seem to delight in misunderstanding what is being said about food, culinary expertise and ability.


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## Iceman

OK. I see.

_*"US" = *_those of us all here (members and/or posters), on this bulletin board, with some connection to the cooking/food service industry.

_*"REST OF THE WORLD" =*_ everyone else on the planet who are not at all included on this bulletin board reading or replying to the posts.

_*edit:*_ I think this comment is a little inappropriate coming from a moderator:


> For a self-professed 'Chef' you seem to delight in misunderstanding what is being said about food, culinary expertise and ability.


----------



## shavy

IceMan said:


> _*edit:*_ I think this comment is a little inappropriate coming from a moderator:
> 
> 
> 
> For a self-professed 'Chef' you seem to delight in misunderstanding what is being said about food, culinary expertise and ability.
Click to expand...

You do seem to be acting intentionally contrary and exceesively argumentative.


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## petemccracken

Maybe FNTV is not the only "joke"?/img/vbsmilies/smilies/laser.gifWhen one defines a "dish" as heating canned peas, one begins to wonder, next maybe, a recipe for MREs??


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## ishbel

IceMan

FYI

I only moderate on 'my' forum, ie the Welcome area.

The rest of the time, I try to be helpful and polite - but consider I have just as much right as anyone else to post my views on other fora here.   Sometimes being polite is more difficult than others.


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## kyheirloomer

_next maybe, a recipe for MREs??_

Ask and it shall be given, Pete:

1. Borrow buddies K-Bar cuz you used yours to open beer cans, and the edge is gone.

2. Cut open bag. Remove non-edibles. Lay where the wind can grab them.

3. Activate heating unit if appropriate.

4. Reach in with flimsy plastic fork provided.

5. Drop half the food on the ground.

6. Cuss appropriately.*

*Cussing as pertains to MREs is a still-developing art form, unlike, say, with C-rats, where it's a fully matured craft. Thus there are great opportunties for making a contribution.


----------



## pete

> *Cussing as pertains to MREs is a still-developing art form, unlike, say, with C-rats, where it's a fully matured craft. Thus there are great opportunties for making a contribution


Heirloomer, I don't have any military in my background, but literally growing up in the restaurant world I could probably help on this point. In fact, in a number of cities, I'm quite well known for my creative use of questionable language!! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/peace.gif


----------



## gobblygook

Let's approach this from another angle for just a moment.  The first "review" was in 2007.  Now, let's imagine that this is a new feature or something has been modified in the webpage where Paula can log on, enter a recipe, and have it auto-posted.  Naturally, this goes through testing in a lab environment, but even when it gets moved into production, it has to be tested.  Let's suppose that this was a "test" and let's face it, it's beyond simple, but has the basics of a recipe.  Can we hope, just for a moment, that this was simply a test that never got deleted? 

I realize that some genius came across this one recipe and decided to go viral with it, but can you find me other such recipes to indicate that this was actually an intentional recipe, rather than a test?  I find it rather odd that Paula would post such a recipe, nor that the Food Network would intentionally allow such a horrible "recipe" to exist on their site.  Even if you wish to rip on Food Network for their perceived injustice to the food industry, I cannot imagine Paula Deen intentionally posting this as a true recipe.


----------



## Iceman

Brilliant idea _*gobblygook.*_

Here is their address:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/contact-us/package/index.html

Here is their phone number:

1-866-587-4653

Anyone interested can contact them and get back to us with their answer.


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## pete

Gobblygook, I would highly doubt this is some kind of "test." In the past FN has been very quick to remove items, from their site, that have appeared by accident (most recently the screw up where they accidentally listed Arti Whats-her-Name as part of the chef line up for the upcoming year before the final episodes of The Next Food Network Star aired).  This has been around for about 3 years so I can't believe that it has been accidentally overlooked for that long.


----------



## kyheirloomer

A test? Hardly. One thing to remember is that FN runs their stars' recipes organized by the show they appeared on.
 

So, if on episode X one of Paula's "dishes" was a can of peas warmed in butter, it will appear that way on the FN site.


----------



## tylerm713

I have a feeling this thread took a different direction than the OP anticipated. But I'm thoroughly enjoying it.

On the note of Sandra Lee and culinary school, everything that I can find indicates that she spent two days of a two week course at Le Cordon Bleu in Ottawa. She quit without even completing the two week course. However, the Food Network would have you believe that she graduated from a full program at the top of her class: "Sandra then attended the world's leading culinary art institute, Le Cordon Bleu. She learned how to apply her Semi-Homemade[emoji]174[/emoji] philosophy and savvy shortcuts toward gourmet recipes so that anyone could create and savor delicious dishes at home in less time and at a fraction of the cost. " Their dishonesty is disgusting.


----------



## foodpump

Nothing dishonest about that statement, just as a broken clock WILL tell the time accurately twice a day--for a minute...

Well... She did attend the school, albeit for a few days.  No one said anything about graduating, did they?


----------



## tylerm713

_She learned how to apply her Semi-Homemade[emoji]174[/emoji] philosophy and savvy shortcuts toward gourmet recipes so that anyone could create and savor delicious dishes at home in less time and at a fraction of the cost._

There are multiple untruths there. First, how many recipes do you think she learned in less than two days in culinary school? Second, we've all discussed how many of her techniques and recipes are neither faster nor cheaper than cooking with fresh ingredients.

You can't read that statement and think that FN is being completely honest and forthcoming. If you do, I've got some ocean front property you might be interested in.


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## foodpump

Y'know, I once worked with this young girl, who was, uh... well, very gung ho about everything.  A few months after a Provincial Election she comes into work  madder than a hornet, complaining about this politician and that, and this election promise and that.  I laughed and asked her:

"Do you still believe in Santa Clause?"

"No"

"Easter bunny or the Tooth Fairy?"
"No".

"Then why on earth would you believe a politician, especially before an election?"

I gave up on TV about 15 years ago, because the majority of the cra* broadcasted was B.S.

Politics is NOT about truth, what's right, or what's good.  It's about power:  Who has it,  and who'll do anything for just a bit of it.

T.V. is all about ratings.  Nothing at all to do about truth, what's right, or what's good.

And now I'd better go into hiding, becasue sure as shooting, Fox TV will hunt me down as a rabid Canuck, responsible for the evils of the world.....


----------



## nicko

chefedb said:


> Sure she is a success, she has a low neckline on her blouse and is attractive, That Sells. *Maybe if Kuan stood there with his pants down he would have a TV show also.*


Chef Deb, I think it goes without saying that if Kuan stood there with his pants down he would get at tv show.

MY EYES... MY EYES....

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif


----------



## pete

Thanks Nicko!!! Finally, after days, I got that picture of Kuan, standing in front of a TV camera with pants down, out of my head, and now you just put it back in there!!!! I thought we were friends!!!/img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif


----------



## breadmaker man

tylerm713 said:


> I think this comment is the winner:
> 
> "You need to be clearer in your recipes. I melted the butter with a small amount of pot (about two joints' worth in the microwave then added the peas. Since I only cooked until the peas were warm the marijuana was still basically raw. The stems made it really unpleasant.
> 
> Perhaps in the future you could substitute "saucepan" for "pot". It's confusing."
> 
> Classic.


Hahahaha. That's brilliant.

Terrible, terrible recipe too.


----------



## sgtgoodie

That's some pretty technical stuff from Ms. Dean. Any less than average house wife would think to maybe even add a bit of salt and pepper to the pot (or saucepan).


----------



## trooper

> Would I trade places with any one of them? Nope! Not for even double or triple the fame and/or fortune.
> 
> When the time comes, all I will be remembered for is my honesty and integrity as well as my reputation for doing my best.


Flatly reject the first statement. Completely agree with the second statement.

If I was offered a job on Food Network for 50K an episode or 100+K every time I put my smiling face in front of a camera - I would do it in a heartbeat.

The Food Network/Food Channel/Et al.. They inspire people to cook. In some cases, they inspire people to cook badly - but they get people somewhere near a stove and a pan. That's a win.


----------



## leianne

gonefishin said:


> How much do you think Americans should earn per year? How much do you think Americans should weigh? What should Americans do with any money you call extra?
> 
> You seem* very* resentful of Americans.
> 
> I hope you take care,
> 
> dan


Oh, lawd. Is this a quiz? Get Paula Deen to the batphone. Maybe she can help us with the math and measurements. Has anyone seen "the pot"? Butter makes everything better, y'all. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/tongue.gif


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## gonefishin

> Oh, lawd. Is this a quiz? Get Paula Deen to the batphone. Maybe she can help us with the math and measurements. Has anyone seen "the pot"? Butter makes everything better, y'all.


 Hi Leianne,

Each one of these questions was directed to mommamae's remarks, nobody else. Within that post I had quoted the material, from mommamae, that provoked my questions.

dan


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## leianne

gonefishin said:


> Oh, lawd. Is this a quiz? Get Paula Deen to the batphone. Maybe she can help us with the math and measurements. Has anyone seen "the pot"? Butter makes everything better, y'all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Leianne,
> 
> Each one of these questions was directed to mommamae's remarks, nobody else. Within that post I had quoted the material, from mommamae, that provoked my questions.
> 
> dan
Click to expand...

dan...I jest. Not an insult.


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## gonefishin

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/tongue.gif


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## leianne

LOL....and for dessert?  An equally challenging recipe. It's nothing like the southern cookin' nanny raised me on!/img/vbsmilies/smilies/chef.gif

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/ellie-krieger/dark-chocolate-as-a-snack-recipe/index.html


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## Iceman

_OK._ *"BUMPAMUNDO"* ....................

I looked through this thread, I hope I didn't miss this being pointed out here. I just saw this, and it is cracking me up. LOL. Enjoy. 
[h1]Carrot-Ginger Salad[/h1]
http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/robin-miller/carrot-ginger-salad-recipe/index.html


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## chrose

Oh that's beautiful!

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/thumb.gif


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## Iceman

This is just really funny. NO cracks at the _Food Network_. It does however, go right along with the theme.


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## cheftjt

Well said!


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## skipstrr

oh my I did as you said...way too funny, you should go read what I just wrote.  I don't have to make this to know how the f it's going to turn out.  My distaste for certain canned vegetables is not limited to peas (don't ever buy canned asparagus), and folks say that they can't cook!  Umm, what did you cook? Heating up a can of vegetables, I'm sorry here Paula you know I love you, does not constitute cooking anything.  Maybe next we'll learn how to cook microwave popcorn!


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## skipstrr

trooper said:


> Flatly reject the first statement. Completely agree with the second statement.
> 
> If I was offered a job on Food Network for 50K an episode or 100+K every time I put my smiling face in front of a camera - I would do it in a heartbeat.
> 
> The Food Network/Food Channel/Et al.. They inspire people to cook. In some cases, they inspire people to cook badly - but they get people somewhere near a stove and a pan. That's a win.


You got that right!


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## skipstrr

tylerm713 said:


> I think this comment is the winner:
> 
> "You need to be clearer in your recipes. I melted the butter with a small amount of pot (about two joints' worth in the microwave then added the peas. Since I only cooked until the peas were warm the marijuana was still basically raw. The stems made it really unpleasant.
> 
> Perhaps in the future you could substitute "saucepan" for "pot". It's confusing."
> 
> Classic.


Maybe you should smoke the pot, then make the peas. It would only improve on their already poor quality and taste. Oh and use the microwave...well that would just confuse everyone.lol


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## skipstrr

tylerm713 said:


> So since Sandra Lee has a TV show, she is a better chef than Thomas Keller?


Well just because she has a show doesn't mean anyone watches it! Oprah has a whole network that no one watches..still doesn't make it good.


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## skipstrr

IceMan said:


> _OK._ *"BUMPAMUNDO"* ....................
> 
> I looked through this thread, I hope I didn't miss this being pointed out here. I just saw this, and it is cracking me up. LOL. Enjoy.
> [h1]Carrot-Ginger Salad[/h1]
> http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/robin-miller/carrot-ginger-salad-recipe/index.html
> 
> aww leave Robin out of this debacle: but reviews are funny!


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## skipstrr

kuan said:


> Only in that she's more successful at having a TV show than me.


LIke I said, Oprah has her OWN network..doesn't mean anyone in America watches anything on it..


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## skipstrr

IceMan said:


> This is just really funny. NO cracks at the _Food Network_. It does however, go right along with the theme.


too funny!


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