# Freelance consulting



## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

I gave notice at my job, and will no longer be the pastry chef there after July.

My boss and I have been discussing my coming in just to do cakes, on a part-time basis, and I told her I'd like to do this, if I'm paid hourly. She agreed, without actually talking about price.

I don't want to settle for less than $30 an hour, and would like to start at $35, negotiable.

Now, she comes to me with a project for a September wedding, and the client only wants to pay $5 a person, for individual wedding cakes (huh?). Not only that; she wants them all arranged in the shape and size of an actual wedding cake (for 250 guests). My boss said she would like to work out a flat rate for me with this particular wedding. No way will I bother with it, if it's less than $20 per cake. They want 5 different flavors, and 5 different designs as well!

We left it hanging today, because I told her to discuss it with the client, and tell her that this idea just cannot happen for $5 a person.

But does anyone here think that there is any way to do any cake project at a flat rate? I don't see how it would be possible to know exactly what the client is being charged. Which is why I want to be paid hourly. Plus, it is more realistic, especially in a company where last minute changes are the norm.

My next issue is, should I remain on the company payroll, or become self-employed and pay my own taxes? And then there are contracts...

Any advice would be helpful.


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Being self-employed is not always a piece of cake, excuse the pun. First you have to think that you may loose some benefits like insurance, retirement fund investing, etc. There are time you have no idea when your next check will come in. On the plus side, you choose your clients, decide on your hours and salary. Only you know if this is the kind of life you want. 

Before quitting your job, you might want to look into your market. Here in Canada we have an agency who keeps statistical information on everything. You might want to go to your local statistical office, if you have one, and see what information they have on income spend on baked good per household per month. Also, you might want to look at the businesses operating in your area that offer products similar to what you’ll offer. That’s just a few of the things you should look into. 

Make a list of everything you’d like to offer and put a price next to everything. This list ifs for you, just to help you decide what services you want to offer and at what price. Take into account everything, from your equipment to electricity. Talk it over with some people in your entourage. You know what your work is worth so stick to your price. If you start discounting yourself right at the start, imagine what you’ll work for in a few months or years. Stick by your prices. Don’t discount yourself from the start, specially not with your soon to be former boss. Then she would expect a discount every time

Clients sometime have no idea what things cost or how long it cost to make them. Expecting you to give a quality product for 5$ is utterly ridiculous. Why not call her, explaining all that goes into making cakes, insisting on quality ingredients and the professional look of the finish products if she won’t budge, suggest another type of cake that you could make for 5$ a head. 


Good Luck!


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Good luck on your venture momo. I'm sure you will find that the rewards of working for one's self are priceless.

I think one thing a lot of us have learned in the catering industry is... who is your client? Is it your soon to be ex-boss or the person wanting the wedding cake? As a matter of principle, your boss should not be discussing the bride-to-be's budget with you, and you should only be discussing your price for this project with your boss. But doing things this way makes things very difficult in terms of communication. In normal circumstances the facility charges a cake cutting fee. This way everyone wins, and you can feel a little better about communicating directly with the future bride. Most wedding cake pros deal directly with the wedding party.

Good luck!

Kuan


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## m brown (May 29, 1999)

I heard a sous chef tell me his fiancee was quoted $65 per mini cake. that is a bucket of cash even for a teeny wedding party!!!!
the lowest i would go for such a service is $25 per cake, with a delivery fee and a holding charge in case thay change their minds.

I charge per large cake at a per seving rate. 
ie:
100 people, basic filling and icing with gum paste flowers,
$6.50 per slice
$650 fee plus delivery charge.

Unles you are running a cake factory it does not pay to make less than $40.00 per hour. 
a house cleaner gets $20.00 per hour and mechanic gets $65.00 per hour so you can charge upwards of $40. 
This is for free-lance only.....


[ July 11, 2001: Message edited by: m brown ]


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

Thanks for the replies. 

I believed that I was selling my services at an excellent rate, but today, I learned that the owner had hoped she could pay me $20 an hour. WAAAYYY less than what I quoted. So, deal's off, and I'm not budging from my price. I don't make bargain cakes!!

mbrown, $65 for a mini cake? They'd better do stupid cake tricks at that price!!


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

Momoreg, I've got to tell you I find the whole pricing thing quite distressing.......I've never been one to beat around the bush so I won't. I'm salaried and I'm making less then $20.00 an hour, although I get cheap insurance and a little 401k matching. I get min. wage for overtime work (that's all thats required by the state for them to pay when the person is salaried) but I can't control the amount of work they book which might require 20 more hours over a reg. 40 hour week of my time. I did a bad job negociating my salary, I just didn't see alot of options, there aren't very many pastry chef jobs around here (and I'm in a big city).

So, pricing..........? I was really shocked at the figure you want. Not that you don't deserve it, no, just shocked that there's that kind of money out there, really? Wow! 
I really need to get going in the same dirrection!

Just my two cents again. If I was you (but I'm not) I would start with someone else as my base client not my old boss where we already have conflicts and I know this person will use and abuse me. It kind of an emotional black whole. Why not think about this in a fresh new way with new people who you can set limits with from the beginning...then when your strong if you want to go back and deal with a difficult person like your old boss then you'll really be doing it your way.


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## foodnfoto (Jan 1, 2001)

Welcome to the world of freelance Momoreg! I have a few suggestions for you.
1. Decide either to be self-employed or not. Being sometimes self- and sometimes not can lead to incredible tax headaches. If you decide upon the former, you will gradullly learn that there are a lot of tax, and other advantages. Granted, health-. life-, and liability insurance are bears to deal with, but the IRS leaves some nice loopholes there for us. 
2. Regarding payment for services, settle on a method that makes you happy and stick to it. There are several to choose from in the world of wedding cake services.
a. Cost-Plus: This method is determined by your costs, and you add a flat service fee on top of it. Show your client a cost breakdown (as detailed as humanly possible-including gas and mileage on your car for shopping trips) then add a fee for your skill and time on top of it. Keep that fee consistent among your clients. I know it's a pain to figure what something costs you to make, but it's worth the extra effort in the long run and once done, easy to figure as your raw materials increase in price. I found this method most advantageous as most clients have no idea what raw materials cost.
b. Per Person Charging: This method is most popular and easiest for the client to relate to, but can make you seem expensive to the client in initial negotiations. I find this method confusing for us, the suppliers of a service. You still must figure your food and supplies costs, overhead, and reasonable profit; but then you must also deal with widely fluctuating guest counts etc. and deal with an extra level of mathematics.
c. Event Fee: This seems simple up-front, but you need considerable marketing savvy to pull it off. You charge a flat rate to provide a wedding cake-as simple or elaborate as the client wants. The advantages are that you always get a fair price for your work, you weed out those who will "nickel-and-dime" you to death, and you regularly do the kind of work that is satisfying to you. The ingredients, detailing, and service you provide has to be the absolute finest, because word of mouth makes or breaks you, especially, with this form of pricing.
A few other tips-
3. Always add in the costs of seperators, cardboard cake rounds, cling wrap and such into your food cost and charge up from there. Those costs can eat up a considerable amount of profit and the IRS considers them inventory.
4. Market your self and your service in the highest end publications that cater to the wealthiest readers. These are the folks who will drop a year's salary on their daughter's wedding and will give you the best word of mouth. Try society magazines and publications-like the Westchester (NY) Wag and whatever one floats around Greenwich CT.

I know it is very scary going out on your own! I did it a year ago and still worry, but the terror fades as you start doing the work you really love, making the money you deserve and take ownership of your own talent and skills instead of supporting someone else's reputation.
Good Luck!


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Hey Momo, I don't think asking $35 an hour is too much. In fact, I think it's too little. Consultants rarely bill 2080 hours a year. I'm not sure what the exact number is but I'll hazard a guess that it's closer to about 20 hours per week on average for a first year consultant. So if you charge $60 per hour, that's only $62,400 a year. Not much when you deduct cost of food, insurance, phone bills, and other costs. The other thing to remember is although you bill only 20 hours a week, you have to work to get those 20 hours! And don't forget, you can charge as much as you want until someone tells you it's too much. When you hit that point you will know, your clients will make sure of that! 

Kuan


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## angrychef (Jan 15, 2001)

momoreg, I have to agree with Wendy about being surprised that one can charge that much(yeah, I get less than 20/hr.too). But at the same time we all have the tendency of underselling ourselves when we are not sure. So go for it. I asked a friend of mine that did some consulting and she said she charged about $35-40/hour for helping set-up a bakery. But then again, she didn't have to buy supplies and look for a kitchen to work in, the bakery paid for that. I wish I could give you more info.
What about the clients of your former boss? Will they be missing your pastries when you leave? Maybe something can come out of that...


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

Hey guys, thanks so much for the advice. I think the future of my dealings with my boss will depend on 2 things: 

1. Who succeeds me in the position. If it's somebody who is capable of doing cakes, and willing to take what she offers, both good and bad, then she will have no use for me. 

2. Whether she is willing to pay me what I ask, without negotiation. Yesterday, she told me that she had thought about my offer, and decided to no longer work cakes into the party price, and instead charge per cake. This way, she can hire me out, if she needs to. She then proceeded to tell me about a cake she needs for October. 

I know all of this will evolve a thousand more times in the next few months, as they go through adjustments with the pastry dept. My former assistant may take the job. I hope she does.

Let me just say, that I think what I'm asking, as a freelance consultant, is fair, and actually on the low end, for the work that I do. But because I have worked there for 5 years, I know the BASIC budget, and how much the pastry shop can earn for the business. I think that $40 would be too much, and $20 is just not worth my while, especially if I am an independent contractor. If I were working for myself, I might pay myself slightly more, if I had enough business to warrant it.


Foodnfoto, you brought up a lot of good points. I agree with you about marketing in those high-end publications. My boss was never one to advertise. She says it cheapens the company's image. I strongly disagree. I think she just doesn't want to grow the business.

I agree with you, W. I would really rather do this on my own, and not deal with my employer in the future, but if we can work out an honest and virtually snag-proof arrangement, it can at least get me started.. I know the environment, which may help make the transition easier.

In the meantime, that is not my only plan. First and foremost, I need to speak to a CPA, and figure out the best plan of action. This is very exciting. 

W., I hope you go in that direction, too. You do nice work.

Angrychef, as a salaried employee, I make a lot less than $35 an hour, but that's the difference between being a full time employee, and being an independent contractor. Nobody has to employ me full-time at that rate. And they can take me or leave me at that price.

Kuan, it may be too little, but I think it's a reasonable place to start.
 

I appreciate all the input!


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

After my couple of attempts at self-employeement I have a baised view of pricing. Although I know the idea/product should be flexible enough to let you business take you where the money is...if you price yourself wrong they might all descide to leave you and not take you, so a high rate can ruin you before you get started.

I found pricing to be a major issuse (at least with fine art) that could (should) carry over into baking in these ways...if you come in too high you offend potential clients, then if you ever do lower you prices many of those people won't give you a second chance. They do remember you. It is a small world out there. 


I believe it's critical to come in at a meduim priced rate, for these reasons.......it leaves you approachable to potential fat cats who might want to negociate their own high volume/lower rate deal with you. A middle of the road rate also gives you room to raise you rates if you do develop a great reputation and then need to weed out the bottom dwellers. 

A couple other things that I discovered....it cost alot more money for those ad's in magazines then you would believe! I was coming across rates like $20,000. for a 2"x2" black and white ad's 8 years ago (the kind in the very back of a magazine) for any magazine that has a national mailing list. Local magazines were around $5,000. for the same. I did some advertising (mailings) and many wholesale shows. There are reasons why businesses don't do the obvious (advertising) most of it doesn't work. But there are things that do....like dirrect repeated mailings you can customize from home...net-working...probably doing those brides shows...etc...


I would be happy to make some phone calls for you (on my day off) and price what some local decorators are asking for their cakes. If we could get several people to do the same it would be helpful for all of us (for many obvious reasons). Anyone think that's a good idea and want to particapate? 

I don't think we should publicly post our homework pricing results, instead we could use the private e-mail they offer us here. Since this will take some effort I think only the people willing to do the labor should benifit from the results? Is that fair and understandable?

P.S. As far as pricing high to balance out the fact that you won't have enough business to begin with as Kuan states, in my oppinion that will probably kill your business before you get your feet off the ground. That's like starting high and then lowering your pricing, it doesn't work unless you physically change your market. Yes, you have other factors to add into your costs but I think you'll find that the people you call on pricing have added in those costs and you discover that what their asking is all the market will pay, you can't go above that to get started...not until you've proven yourself and have a client base. Just my two cents, for what-ever that's worth......


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## lotuscakestudio (Jun 28, 2001)

Wow Momo! To me, that's a lot of money! Even Colette Peters only makes $25/hour. But if you can get it, woo hoo! For airbrushed Sam's Club/Costco/Price Club type of work, those decorators get between $12 - $14 an hour and strangely enough, supermarket decorators get slightly less, and more gourmet grocery stores and even fine dining restaurant decorators get even less than that. When I worked in a fine dining restaurant/caterer, I think the pastry chef there who also did all the wedding cakes couldn't have made more than $35,000 a year. Then again, this was Baltimore and you're in CT and the more north you go, prices for everything just go up up up. Anyway, good luck on your new career path.


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

Consulting is a different thing altogether. It means that I am at their disposal, and I'm not working full time at that rate, so it makes sense that my hourly wage is higher than a full time employee.


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

Momoreg...First of all I would like to see if you would like to prepare my mothers birthday cake for a suprise party on 8/5 for about 25 people. I have seen your work and feel it is some of the finest pastry work in the tri state area. I also want to comment on what a "free lance" whatever makes. They are not on a 40+ hour a week schedule,they pay there own benifits and they have to prove why they are better then the rest.Not many pastry chefs make $35 an hour or can charge $7.00 a slice,"for a wedding cake" But if you hire a upscale caterer where I live and plan to have a wedding for 100 people you can pay $400-$1000 for just the cake,Now think of the cost that goes into the cake..weather it's basket weave or rolled fondant with gold leaf,no cake made of flour,suger,eggs and what not cost that much money.....it's the hands!!!!it's the hours spent baking,cooling,storing,rebuilding,finishing,travel ing etc...I want to be sure that the person that I entrust to prepare something as special as a wedding cake is compensated for it.The pastry chef at a caterer will recieve his/her hourly wage plus maybe a tip 
If a cake cost 75 cents per slice for 100 people so the cake is worth $75.So if it takes a pastry chef 6 hours at $35 an hour to prepare a cake thats $210 labor cost plus $75 food cost..it cost the caterer $285 for the cake, In my neck of the woods like I said before you can't touch a wedding cake for under $400 so thats a bare minamun profit of $115 for the caterer of the top. I say come up with a fare pricing stradigy plus add an hourly transport and on site fee.
cc

[ July 19, 2001: Message edited by: cape chef ]


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## lotuscakestudio (Jun 28, 2001)

I have an issue of Pastry Art & Design that has an article with Colette Peters. She said herself that when she broke it down, she makes $25/hour. This article was written in 1999 so I'm sure (I hope!) she is making more by now. But still... considering who she is and what she can do, $25/hour for 1999 is depressing.


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

Quite depressing indeed. I don't believe her, though!  Anyway, if she's not making more than that, she should be!!! Much more.


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

Thanks for the sweet compliment, capechef! I am looking forward to making the cake. Talk to you soon  .


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

I haven't seen much written by you lately Momoreg, how's this avenue going?


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

Thanks for asking, W.

Today is my last day. I came home for a couple hours, and I have to go BACK to work later tonight for a tasting. Then it's farewell. They made a nice Moroccan meal for my 'last lunch' today.

My boss has a few cakes lined up for me to do in September, so in the next few weeks, I'll write out a contract for us to sign, so that there are no surprises. 

I was looking at a kitchen in Westport, CT. It is small, but fine for my needs. They wanted to rent it out on a per diem basis, but they will not drop the price, if I'm willing to take it on a lease basis. It's much too expensive to rent out that way, so I had to walk away from that one. 

My husband was just called to take a job in the UK for 10 weeks. Maybe I can spend a few weeks over there, and find some temp. work.

We shall see...


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

So your still going to begin your own business then...


My last day is the 11th, I wish I was as collected as you! I'm a wreck inside......


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

I can understand why you're a wreck inside, but I'll bet everyone in your life is jumping for joy that you finally made the right choice. That support is what keeps me focused. Although, I have to say, yesterday I received so many kind words from everyone at work... I will truly miss that family.

Do you have any particualr plan in mind? Maybe that can prevent you from being a wreck too.

Keep reminding yourself that you have an open door now, and you can do whatever you want once you walk through it. Your life will be full of opportunity on August 11th, and you can one day look back at this past job as though it were another life!

Those are my inspirational thoughts for today. I hope you keep us updated on your progress, Wendy.


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

Incidentally, I spoke with the client that initailly wanted that unrealistic cake for $5 a person, and they have completely changed their idea (to something much simpler). Looks like I have my first consulting job!


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks,........ I can understand all the logic but emotions still run strong. Their the hardest thing to control...they don't always connect to logic.


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

I've been day dreaming about a "business idea" or I should say a self-employement idea. If I follow the saying do what you love and the money will follow.....I love making sweet tables. Themed, elaborate tables with very artistic cakes and such kind which even few pastry chefs can do.

So do you think there would be a market for this? I'd like to go to different clubs, restaurants, caterers, party consultants and work at their place to create their needs for special events. I'd do this on a hourly basis or I could charge a flat fee dependent on what they wanted and how many items were on their sweet table. They'd buy the ingredients and give me space to do this in their kitchen. I would like being a temp. worker (you don't get as entangled with the politics this way). I have years of caterering as my background so I know how to work in a new place everyday. As far as demand I know holidays could be crazy....I could plan ahead and mass produce large display gingerbread houses/display peices for places where they don't have someone able to do them. But there are always special parties other than the holidays where places need something extra special.???People currently turn to chocolates ala carte as if that was a "special" dessert. I could certainly surpass that! 

I also would enjoy teaching chefs or their staff in their kitchen how to make simple desserts and garnishes. I could set them up from a to z with the stencils and such, plus give them diagrams and recipes on how to apply basis principals to dress up purchased product.


Any feed back? I'm I just dreaming?


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

No, you're definitely not dreaming. If there is a demand for Choc's a la carte in your area, it's because they want something that seems custom, with a theme. Choc. a la carte is not cheap, so you could match that price, or go higher for a complete dessert, including sauce and garni.

I have thought of conatcting party planners, caterers, etc., just like you. But before doing that, make sure you have some nice cards and professional looking pictures (that they can keep), plus something sweet, like truffles, p4s, whatever, in a tasteful package. People love freebies. 

Caterers often call outside people, such as ice carvers, sushi chefs, and other specialty chefs. Why wouldn't they call you? They just need to know you're out there!


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Wendy and Momo,

If you want to see how others are doing, check this website:

Chocolate a la carte

If you haven't been there yet, I trust both of you will be inspired.


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

Thanks, Kimmie.


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

Well tonight was my last day at the club, I'm no longer employeed. I chose this day as my final because they had a wedding cake and sweet table booked and I wanted to go out the right way, not scre*ing them. It was a totally weird day, many ups and downs.

Anyway, one thing that was way weird was the florists ladies all knew I was leaving (How I don't know) and they were delighted (like we were school chums)!? (I don't even know them) That took me back (way back!)....anyway they were all over me asking for my phone number etc... told me to call them and that they could send me work and intro. me to all the caterers and party people around. HUM???????????????

I've always been the one who tells everyone how stupidly hard running your own business is, but here I sit with my little ego feeling wanted (? maybe) and just a couple words of praise makes me think I might be able to do this.............................................. .....................na, who knows..................... .


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

what! did I miss something here? I can't find my way around anything anymore but I certainly did not hear about this. I got a check in the mail from Sh----- and thought about you. they wanted a I9 so I think I will 1099 them at the end of this year just for laughs.
I'm so happy for you. Ya know what I am going to say next, someone with the passion and the energy should try their own thing or move to Texas. HEY! Yesterday my partner in the dba location decided that this was not for him. fate???? 
Kick back, throw up you heels, truly enjoy your decision for a while.
The very best of luck to you,
Jeff


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## angrychef (Jan 15, 2001)

Congrats W!!! Hope you find a better place either on your own or with much better employers. You may even want to check out the catering companies because they always need people on a part-time basis. Or ya never now and decide to move to Texas!


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

W,

There's always something out there for talented people, and you seem to be one of those.

I know you will find a fulfilling job opportunity soon!


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

W.,

Right there with ya, babe...


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Having seen a picture of a cake you did Wendy I have no doubt you will succeed. Talented people like yourself are always in demand.


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

Look at the donut not the whole..

Good luck to you W, And thank you for being so thoughtful with your posts.

cc


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Few do the artistry that you do.....KNOW your audience, KNOW who can afford you. Do the bridal fair at Neiman Marcus...contact only the high end caterers, direct is definatly much bigger bucks....You'll do great! Good Luck.And contact the media with pix ASAP.


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks everyone for the kind words, I sure need to hear them. My first two days off have constisted of dealing with my dieing cat and possible rejection for donating my kidney to my Mom. I can barely pick my head up to type here. I fell thru the donut hole face first! I hope to scrap myself up off the floor but it might take awhile.............


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

Sorry to hear what a tough time you're having, W.

How long ago did you donate your kidney?


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## m brown (May 29, 1999)

Found another spot to start a shop, two maybe! A house on my block has a free standing studio in the back and I hope to buy the house, convince the town to allow me to put a kitchen in the studio and bake up a storm!
Or a new building is going up and they want to put in a retail space, small 540 sq ft plus 800 sq ft in the basement for $10 per sq ft up and $2 per sq ft down. Looks like a year out on both fronts. 

This freelance stuff is tough. 

( i was chatting with my chef about where we would be without having started families. i think i would have become a world traveling work-a-haul-ic.)

I am working on a portfolio with real photos, not my amature ones, any advice on how many to start with? 
I was thinking 5 to start and add as the orders come in. 

What prices have you guys run into with photograhers and PR people? 

I am going with word of mouth, a color flyer and exclusive bridal shows and shops/caterers.

W. are you donating the kidney and waiting on the match thums up or down? That is a very selfless action, you're a great daughter for even trying!!


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

I never had any professional photos taken; I just try to make them as clean as possible on my own. I thought for my first photos, I would give my brother some of my digitals, and have him digitally render them, and send them off to someone, to be made into postcards and business cards. It's good having a renderer in the family.

I have not looked into hiring a photographer just yet. I would like to have a few dummies ready, so that they can bang out several shots at one time.

I think it's okay to have amateur shots in your portfolio, as long as they're clear and detailed. If you only put pro shots in there, it would take forever to build it up.

Mbrown, a travelling workaholic? Sounds as hard as being a workaholic mom.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

try to barter those pics. Barter everything you can. Be creative. Make the photographer small client gifts or something.


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## lotuscakestudio (Jun 28, 2001)

As for photos, I always ask the bride if I can buy a photo from her or I ask for the name of the photographer so I can call him/her later and buy a copy. Unfortunately, with one wedding cake I did, I didn't bother taking photos b/c, "Hey, the bride is giving some for free!" But the photographer did such a bad job. Not just with the cake shots, but everything from the ceremony, to the first dance, to the seeing off of the couple. The cake pics were "grainy" and not clear or bright at all. I could have done a better job with my 110 from 7th grade. In case any of you are wondering, they still had to pay full price, and to top it off, they had to wait over 2 months to get their photos. (!!!)


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

Here's a couple of thoughts.


In my experience over the years I've never had luck getting photos from the hired wedding photographer. Lots of promises and cards passed but they never followed thru for me. The guy who posted the digital one at web....was the first one to ever come thru in anyway for me.

My bad luck aside....heres a couple ways to get good photography done cheaply. Every other town has a professional photography lab that processes film for advertising businesses. Look this up in the phone book and call ahead, but you need to go there in person to talk to them (since this is not the developers business). Working at these not main street businesses are student photographers who are learning their craft of fine photo processing. Many of them need subject matter to work on for school projects and would LOVE something that gives them something to put in their PROFESSIONAL portfolio! You could find a really talented student (and pro.s that want side work out of the lab) this way and only pay for the film their lunch and have them excited about the whole event. You can also contact local colleges but they'll dirrect the student charge professional fees.

Another way to find a PRO photographer for less then the going rate. Fine art shows and fairs. These people are independent artists and any work they can do in their off time/side work might interest them. You must not insult them in your approach but if you talk to them and ask their professional opinion most of them would love the opportunity for a couple extra dollars but the work has to be done at their convience.

Using your own photographs....it's best to enlarge them ALOT and then crop in around the cake so your background doesn't interfer with your cake. That's what a pro does best, makes the background stay in the background. Take them to a professional lab like I mentioned above and they can use filters and even crop you photo in the lab so you aren't cutting prints. They can turn you negative into a great photo. Also they can print your colored photo in black and white for a really artsy high end look. You also might be supprised at their pricing. Many of the professional labs aren't any more expensive then your local photo shop. Also your local photo shop can put all your photos on disk so your clients can look at them at the computor (if you wanted) it's really not expensive. You also can get sheets with several different photos on them for a decent price as a hand out


As far as post cards. There are a couple places that do this from your negative in the country. It was around a dollar a post card the last time I looked into it and there is a min. run usually 500. Where as attempting to make postcards from smaller labs will cost MUCH MUCH more then these places that specifically do fine art post cards in mass.

P.S. Were only in the testing stages for the kidney donation and I had to put my cat to sleep.....


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

Lots of good ideas, W.

I'm sorry to hear about your cat. It's an awful feeling, but sometimes the best thing you can do for the animal.


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

A cat comes into your life very quietly all timid making sure she does not take too much room. Soon after you realised the cat took over the couch and the bed. You have to move over to the side cause the cat prefers to be in the middle. You then realised that the cat is always by your side, willing to share the joys and sorrows of life with you. You soon realised that the cat has not only taken over your home but your heart. Cat are sneaky that way, they do it so delicately that you don’t always notice it at first but soon enough you realised that you have a friend for life.

I am so sorry to hear about your cat Wendy, please accept my deepest sympathy.


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

W.DeBord, what is involved in the testing and selective process? Can anyone get tested?
What group is in control of this process?
jeff


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Hope everything goes well with the kidney donation. All the best.

I love cats the most and know how it feels to lose a loved one. I am not religious but the great law of the universe has a way of fixing things for the better. I am compelled to say that some bikers who tortured my "little queen" to death a few years ago are now serving years in the state pen.

To Old&Wise:

Involved in any tissue donation is tissue matching: how closely the donor's tissue matches that of the recipient's. Parents' and siblings' tissue(s) come closest to matching that of a family member.

[ August 20, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

kokopuffs,
I'm a little informed about matches My wife and I have been through bone marrow and stem cell trans, I was just curiousm as in liver there can actually be better matches in the general public. I'm 5 yrs. out from C and would not hesitate to test for match If I could. I was just looking for the foundation. Or a source for information. Or a place to test.
Jeff


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

Great I wrote a long answer and now I lost it..........the hospitals are in charge of everything but they can't do anything until the insurance company agrees to pay.


I don't have children, my pets are my children. They don't take kidneys from childless women as long a they can still get pregant, because you can't have children with one kidney. 

There's a big difference in the life expectance from an organ from a family member vs one from a non family member. A donation from a dead person, the kidneys last about 5 years. So family members are always the best way to go. Even with-in the family some will match more geneticly than others.

I can't seem to write well right now, all the stress has gotten my physically sick I went to the imediate care place today. They gave me a musle relaxant and anxiety medicines and they seem to be kicking in.........sorry I can barely type. Later.....


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## angrychef (Jan 15, 2001)

Wendy, I am sorry for your loss and the difficult time you are going through. I wish you the best...


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Wendy,
I don't want to intrude but Email if you like. Take care of yourself. If you need anything call.PS:I've been fighting those stpoid insurance companies for six years now, I have learned some tricks.
Jeff&Sophie


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## breadster (Feb 23, 2001)

Hi W-
wow- you jave been going through a lot- it always seems to happen at once doesnt it- they often say what doesnt kill(not literally of course) you just makes you stronger... i should be able to lift a house by now 

so sorry to hear about your cat- my little pug, Jezebel, is everything to me (actually she's not so little- she likes her mommy's cooking a bit too much)

she's always there for me when things get tough -you have my deepest sympathy


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## lynne (Oct 6, 2001)

W. You have my heartfelt sympathies for the loss of your cat and trials of tissue/organ typing and matching. I hope that a match and chance comes soonest.

lynne


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

W,
I hope that everything looks up for you SOON!


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the kind words everyone! I'm feeling much better now. The golden lining was after feeling unsure about leaving my job, this week made me realize it was totally the right move. The timing was bazare as if my cat waited till I'd be home. Plus tons of things are happening with my family and freinds, so for once in a long while I'll be around to particapate in life.

I do match my Moms' blood type, that's great but it's pretty scarey truthfully. There's complications with one of my sisters who might have inherited the same thing but she is not very forthcoming. So we wait....

My Mom's insurance hasn't been bad so far and my father is retired so he has time to deal with them...thanks for the offer Jeff, I hope I won't need to take you up on it.....

My step-granddaugther and her Mom came into town this weekend to celebrate her 9th birthday and I BOUGHT a birthday cake and went OUT to dinner instead of doing everything! I think my inlaws were shocked.


So what's happening Momoreg? Have you taken any futher steps on the road to self-employement?

I suppose I was glad I had an excuse this past week and didn't have time to think about where I'm going now with regards to work but the questions began last night, "so now what?" and I do need to find the answer...........


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

That's good news, W. I am glad that things are levelling out for you. It's amazing how timing works sometimes, isn't it?

I have 3 cakes on the horizon; 2 of them with my former boss. She has asked me to give her a per cake price, rather than an hourly rate, because she needs to compare apples to apples, if she gets a per cake price from someone else. So I agreed to that, and I'm quite sure that I can offer a better price than anyone, since I have no overhead.

The 3rd wedding cake is a private job, and I am meeting the bride tomorrow. I don't know what she wants yet, and I don't know where I'll be making it, but if she wants me to do her cake, I will say yes, and figure everything out. I'm sure things will fall into place. Necessity is the mother of invention, right?

I have asked my brother to design business cards for me, and it's something so specialized that I can't really take it to a local printer, but he's in the midst of buying a house, so I really have to wait. But I still don't have cards, and it really would help.

In the meantime, I have vowed to take August off, and just relax. My way of relaxing has been to paint every room in the house, and build a patio. I shovelled tons upon tons of gravel last week. Really relaxing...NOT.

Like you, I really feel that I have made the right decision.


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

WDeBord:
Should the anxiety and restlessness become overwhelming, then I suggest some herbal tea made from VALERIAN ROOT and CHAMOMILE. The former has been used as a muscle relaxant for centuries. Both substances are very calming and do help to induce sleep. However, you won't test positive for any drugs/illicit substances.

Valerian root is not related to Valium. Purchase the herbs in cut, not powdered, form. They will stay fresh longer. Allow the valerian root to steep (slow simmer) for about 10 - 15 minutes. Then strain and drink.

Warning, valierian root stinks like dirty socks that can stand up on their own!


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Koko,

It's funny that you happen to talk about herbal remedies. I just came across the following book, titled _«Elixir's Tonics and Teas»_. This volume offers up dozens of restorative, calming, and healing tisanes, sodas, and cocktails (as well as soups, stocks, and a porridge), its pages liberally laced with quotations from Lao Tsu to Tennyson; Shakespeare's Othello to MGM's The Wizard of Oz.

It's available at amazon.com. Click here for more.


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

The one herbal book that I recommended to my Health Science Class is THE SCIENTIFIC VALIDATION OF HERBAL MEDICINE by Mowry. The common herbs mentioned in it have been scientifically researched, like the title says.

Oh, and two more things: Valerian root has been used for PMS for centuries: also, it seems to calm overactive (read hyperactive) kids according to some parents' reports.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Koko,

It's certainly better than _RITALIN_.

Click here

and

Denver Post article

[ August 20, 2001: Message edited by: Kimmie ]


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

W,
A valium or zanax every once in a while wouldn't hurt either. These drugs were especially made for times like you are having. The hardest thing is not to think about working and where you are going. You have worked many years and it's time to give yourself some time off. Mentally and physically. What ever is going to happen is going to happen, worrying or not. You know you will not fail. Cut yourself down to 1 hour per day for a week to think about what you are going to do.Use your energies for family and things happening now.
Then come to TX.lol
Jeff


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

God, or whom-ever just wired me to be high voltage....I'll do my best to relax and put things out of my mind when I'm awake. Teas, pryscription drugs, even a stiff drink work great while I'm awake. Then my subconcience goes into high speed as I sleep sabotaging me. I can't ever seem to hide or get away from myself. It's a family thing because my two sisters and Mother are exactly like me. It's really biologically based.

P.S. I'm wired so tight that...I have to wear a mouth guard to stop the pressure and grinding of my teeth as I sleep....isn't that **** at night......I'm a real treat....


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

Breadster has posted this really interesting thought/offer/interest in renting out space at her kitchen (on another thread). It's like dangling candy in front of a kid....I sure want to reach for it but I know at this moment it's not in my best interests. She's a bit too far away from me and I can't do night hours, but....

Have any of you looked at her site? She has a great looking site and this successful business, which she's much too quite about!

It would be a perfect situation............


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

W,

You know the address? I'd love to visit!

I'll be good, promise...


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

I forgot to write it down...hopefully breadster will stop by here and post it.


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

I got a 4th cake order now...They're just rolling in!!


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Congrats Momo! That's great news isn't it!


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

Cool Momoreg, and you don't even have your cards printed yet, ha.....see, people know a good thing when they see it.


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

That's fantastic Momo!

Congratulations!


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

Thanks for the kind words.  I'm so glad I moved on!


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

It's the only way to go. Keep positive and good things will happen.


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