# Red Seal Cook Br.2 vs Red seal Chef exam



## pumqin (Sep 19, 2011)

Just curious, but how many papered chefs out there actually have a red seal for chef? Not cook Br.2.... Just wondering how many people have actually taken 2 red seals to achieve actual chef papers. Also,  are people who currently only have their cook Br.2 papers, calling them chef papers? As far as I know everyone on the forum is saying they are going to write their chef papers after 6000 hours. Those are actually only Cook Br. 2 papers, after completing those you must wait 1 year another 2,300 or so hours and complete a Red Seal Chef exam. Just curious what everyone is doing and if anyone(employers) know the difference between the red seal that says Chef on them or Cook Br.2.

Thanks,


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Those of us in the USA are probably behind the times, but the Red Seal Web Site does not list a Red Seal for chefs, only Cook 1, Cook 2, and Cook 3.

Now, the Canadian Culinary Institute does list a Chef de Cuisine certification that is available for those with five years as a Red Seal Cook and two years as a supervisor, is that what you are referring to?


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## pumqin (Sep 19, 2011)

Thank you for replying. So the problem is I have written my red seal under the assumption it was for my "chef papers" as anyone else I have ever known to go write them there is a min of 6,000 hours to qualify. Everyone keeps calling them chef papers when in reality it states on the seal itself that it is for Cook Br. 2 I have been the Executive Chef of a Hotel for 5 years, have well over 20,000 hours of experince however now I have spent money and time on a red seal that says only Cook on it. So I am a little confused as I went on the red seal website also and there is a link for cook and one for chef now, which says you must have your Cook Br. 2 for 1 year equiv. of 2,300 hours then go write another exam...then 5 years after that exam you can go get your chef de cuisine (which in Canada, I would assume would be the equiv. of a "master chef") Thanks for your help


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## sherbel (Sep 10, 2011)

You are in fact a bit confused. There is no "Red Seal" certification for "Chef" in Canada at this time. The Red Seal program and certification indicates the highest level of cooking skills that is federally/provincially certified.

As the holder of a Red Seal certification, I could, after 5 further years, take the examination for Certified Chef de Cuisine, which is administered by  the Canadian Culinary Institute, under the auspices of the Canadian Culinary Federation. This is similar to the CIA's "Master Chef" program. Personally, I've never felt the need to do so.

In Canada, the CCC isn't a government sponsored program, however, although it's recognized by the Tourism Human Resources Council.

I've never called my Red Seal certificate "Chefs papers", but I'm aware that others do.....to me, when I'm working as a chef, in the position of "Chef", then I'm okay with being referred to as a chef. Otherwise, in private life,  I'm a cook who has achieved the highest level in terms of Canadian government certification.


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## pumqin (Sep 19, 2011)

Actually if you go on www.red-seal.ca and pull up the ellis chart and scroll to chef, there is another level to be reached. It is after 1 year of experience after having held a red seal as a cook! That is why I am so confused. Thanks though.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Ok, please help me, I looked at the Ellis Chart for Cook and do not find a reference to chef, an I looking in the wrong place??


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

In fact when I search for chef on the Red Seal site, I get a respones that says no trades, no sites, no documents contain the term "chef", so now I'm more confused than you are /img/vbsmilies/smilies/surprised.gif


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## pumqin (Sep 19, 2011)

go on www.red-seal.ca on the home page on the right hand side there is a tab that says Ellis chart, click on that and type in chef in trade box then click on it. The info will show up. I wonder why the government makes this so confusing haha.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Thank you, found it.

Apparently applies only to Ontario, correct? The remaining provinces apparently do not recognize "chef" as a trade, which, IMO, is understandable as "chef" means chief and may be applied to any trade.

According to the Ellis Chart , though both a skills chart and apprentice outline are available, no written or practical exam is available, and 2,600 hours of Apprentice training is required, at 8 hours per day that is the equivalent of 325 days or 65 standard five day weeks.

Though the Ellis chart states that a skills chart and apprentice outline are available, they do not seem to be accessible from the Red Seal Web Site. Perhaps you have another resource?


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## pumqin (Sep 19, 2011)

Yes I am hoping so. I am very happy someone else has seen what I was looking at, was starting to feel a little crazy haha. Thank you for all your help.


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## sherbel (Sep 10, 2011)

I'd never accessed the Ellis Chart before, but you were right! Weirdly though, there seems to be no testing/examination resources, even in Ontario. So how the heck would one get tested? Or certified? What a messed up system, sheesh.


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## pumqin (Sep 19, 2011)

Ya it is really confusing that's why I started a thread, maybe thinking someone else has been through this before. If I come across any more info I will be sure to post back.


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## cheffrey212 (Apr 3, 2013)

The Cook Br. 2 certification in Ontario means you have successfully completed your requirements for the apprenticeship. It has nothing to do with a Red Seal certification either than you are now ready to write the test. Your status should now be "journeyman" as opposed to apprentice and you should let the college know if you are attending school presently. 

The Red Seal test is the physical test you would write with the MTCU and would have to go in, the cost right now is currently $150 to write. There is nothing else needed to write either than your Cook Br. 2. When you write and successfully pass the Red Seal exam you will receive a certificate with a prominent and distinctive "Red Seal" with your name and applicable information. Hope that helps? I found it a little confusing myself and preemptively thought I had passed the test when i received the Cook Br. 2 Certification.

Cheers


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## gypsy2727 (Mar 9, 2010)

I have acheived the Red Seal and on the Certificate of Qualification and it states "This is certify that ..... ...... having complied with the Apprentiship and Certification Act, 1998, and regulations is issued this Certificate of Qualification. *Cook Br. 2. *Interprovincial Red Seal stamp and Gold Provincial stamp.

A "Chef" is the person in charge of the kitchen.

Hope this helps

Gypsy

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif


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## shrimpboat chef (Sep 27, 2013)

I've read and heard so much over the years regarding " red seal chef, what is a red seal chef?" Very confusing. As I did my culinary training (3 year/ 6000 hours apprenticeship) in Ontario I'm not sure how it works in the other provinces.When I completed my apprenticeship I was able to write one exam for my " journeyman cook " certificate. ( back then the fee was $45) I was told if I scored 85% or better I would receive an interprovincial standard ( the certificate is embossed with a red seal and your certificate number is with in it). well, I did. I scored a 88% and later on in the mail I received  a wallet card and a 8" X 11" certificate claiming I was a journeyman cook with interprovincial standard and the infamous red seal. Unless things have changed that was it.You wrote the one exam and if your mark was sufficient you were awarded the red seal. There was/is no special  red seal test/exam. If you are somebody that has gone through this process it really makes you wonder if things have changed. Over the years I've worked with many a cook who says he/she has their red seal chefs papers and When I hear that I ask them about it as there was/is no such thing as " chefs papers" as always these people didn't have any physical proof to back up their claim. It's just a buzz word they've heard. To further the confusion whenever  I have changed address I have requested a new wallet card from the " Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities"  as of April 08 2013 it is now known as the "Ontario College of Trades" The designation on the card over the years has evolved from "journeyman cook to  cook and now on my latest card, cook br.2" I'm not quite sure what that's all about. Anyway that's my story and I'm sticking to it.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

The Fed. Gov't has an agency called the ITA (Industry training authority) that provides qualification for all trades, not just cooks, so there are "Red Seals" for many trades

Here in B.C. the "Red seal" is a qualification for cooks.  Up until 2010 the method for obtaining the qualification was as you described, that is to "challenge" the test.  As a result, most Chefs, particularily the European ones hated the qualification, you see, the test does not include any live, real cooking.  And it is a multiple choice test.  Kinda like trying out for the Canadians or the Leafs and instead of lacing up your skates, you are asked to write a multiple choice test.  That, and the infamous "Wendy's girls" in Ontario too.  The Wendy's chain demands that their cooks have a "Red Seal".  So two employees challenged the test, got their qualification, and without ever working in any kitchen other than Wendy's.  The qualification was a pathetic joke.

What B.C. and Alberta do since 2010 is have a 3 part program.  Starting from the bottom, you write your Cook1, then work a minimum of hours in  the industry before writing cook II, then again working a minimum of hours before the big test, cook III or the "Red Seal" which does not include multiple choice questions, but real ones, and a 4 hour cooking test as well.  It is a real qualification and one that is respected by just about everybody.

Hope this helps


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## gypsy2727 (Mar 9, 2010)

Yes the Red Seal has become a bit of a joke these days IF .....the above mentioned is true that the Ministry of Trades  are giving away Red seals to Wendy's employees without apprenticing under a Red Sealed Chef for the 6000 hours....hmmm


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