# First Post, Help a Newby...



## frayedknot (Dec 17, 2006)

Well this is my first post on this forum ( I have been "lurking" for a while.. yep this forum is amazing) Well PLEASE treat me nice!!  I am a baker in a "upscale grocery" as well as a student in a continuing ed school (at 51 yo) here in SC. My passion is in the "food" if you will. This forum can be very intimidating, but very informative so please bear with me.

Hopefully, with some help here I can be a better professional. 

Yep I am comming from another career (retired, not to be confused with "nothing better to do") and attempting to establish myself (to myself) as a "baker", I do not feel that I have a "grip" on the "educated" side of things YET.. yes the passion is there.. but I continue to work on that. I am confident "that" will come. 

I have some questions that I can not find in the "text books" (got Bo Friberg"s book (Pro Pastry Chef) in my stocking.. nice size stocking eh??)

The questions are:

What is the proper way to "season" a channel pan or any baking sheet pan for that matter? I have spent several hours trying to get the "yuck" (old spray non stick) off of the 3 channel pans, and flat sheet pans. I continue to fight with the "others" I work with about this. I guess it is a matter of "how one carries one self". My clothes are getting ruined as a result of the "old yuck". I would be embarrassed if another professional walked in and saw "my" bakery...the senior guy "could care less" ...he has told me he is there for a paycheck. (might have something to do with why "I" have been chosen to start the scratch program at work) I am passionate about my work!

Thanks in advance.

Another "issue" is the "wet" bottom of the baked product as they cool to be packaged. How does one deal with that? Other than turn the product over to cool.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance for opinions...


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## mredikop (Dec 6, 2006)

Tender what I say carefully because I am not a baker by trade but I do bake frequently in my house because my wife hates to bake.

I would bet the best way to season any pan is the same as seasoning a cast iron skillet. Put some oil in, wipe it around with your hand to cover and bake for a while then wipe it out with a paper towel. Then never wash with soap just hot, hot water. 

As for product getting wet on the bottom I would guess you could turn them over half way through cooling. I am not really sure. 

Don't be intimidated by the forum, if anything everyone here is very helpful and knowledgeable. If your wrong on something someone will set you straight but you will be a better baker/cook for it so it's a good thing.


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## chefpeon (Jun 14, 2006)

Hey Frayed!

Don't be intimidated! Here on the forums we do a lot of chest puffing because if we did it at work, we'd get our butts kicked.:lol:

But seriously.

In my 17+ years as a PC, dealing with "old yuck" on pans is more or less a way of life. In most of the establishments I have been in, the pans are "yucked up", not always washed, and severely warped. My co-workers have been known to stash the best pans in secret hiding places so less people have a chance to screw them up. 

Frequently, pastry people are always battling with the hot side (savory) over the conditions of the pans. Hot siders tend to abuse the pans a bit more, and a lot of the "yuck" factor can come from old meat grease. I knew one PC who would drill little holes in the corners of brand new sheet pans when they came in, so the savory people couldn't use them for meat (the grease would drip out the holes so they were unusable for the savory side). Sneaky! But I liked his style!

The best way to deal with "old yuck" on sheet pans is using parchment pan liners. I don't know how you have time to be spending hours scrubbing pans, unless you're staying after work and doing it on your own time. There's no way any of my employers would have stood for paying me my wage to do a dishwasher's job......!

The only chance you have of "seasoning" any pan is when you get it brand new. Brand new pans (any kind) are treated with a coating that helps them wash off easily, but unfortunately, with use, this coating wears off, and eventually, the heavy use and build up of pan sprays and food, start the cycle of "yuck". If they are well washed with every use, the "yuck" factor is delayed, but only delayed. 

Dishwashers really don't have the "passion" if you know what I mean. They aren't there to polish each pan til they see their reflections. They are there to crank it out and get the heck home. Sometimes they are so overwhelmed with the neverending pile of pans and dishes, that sometimes a quick spray of hot water is all a sheet pan ever sees.

So I guess what I'm saying, Frayed, is that the challenge for you is to let the "yuck" go. Instead of battling futility (and believe me, it's futile), challenge yourself by saying "how do I deal with what is before me?" Oh sure, you can scrub pans with steel wool and oven cleaner on your own time, but you'll get tired of that, especially when most of your co-workers don't give a sh*t. You might as well bang your head against a wall. Truly.

Me, I use parchment. Lots and lots of parchment. When I get new pans, I try to set them aside and wash them myself so they'll stay nice longer. Eventually my co-workers find them and I'm screwed, but I never give up hope. When a channel pan, or a loaf pan or a muffin pan is coated with years of crud, I use paper liners, and/or lots and lots of pan spray so my stuff will come out.....because that's my job....to get the stuff out. Not to wash dishes.

Ok, regarding, the cooling thing......when a baked product has the possibility of forming a "soggy bottom", much like my own, that is easily solved by using cooling racks and screens....if your employer provides them. Anything that is well vented on the bottom will eliminate your soggy woes for sure. If all you have is sheet pans, then, well, you either have to flip your stuff over (what a pain), or just accept a little "sog". 

I think one of the most frustrating things about having the "passion" (and I certainly do, even after all this time), is that you have to come to terms with the fact that in the workplace you have to accept some imperfection. If you don't, you will make yourself crazy. Just do the best you can, because you can't control the circumstances or the people around you. 
I save my anal-retentive perfectionism for the stuff I do at home....where I have complete control. 

This kind of stuff is the stuff no Bo Friberg textbook will ever tell you!:crazy:

Cheers......Annie


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## frayedknot (Dec 17, 2006)

Thanks for the replies and suggestions. They are truly appreciated. Annie, yep I took "my" time to try to clean up some pans, but yesterday I used two of the "cleaned" channel pans. I guess old habits are hard to break, someone sprayed them and I did not  low and behold it took me forever to get the french bread out of the channel pan. Not to mention what it did to the product.  
The old crud on the pans is frustrating not only what it does to my coats, but I have to wipe my hands everytime I pick one up..to prevent the dough from getting stained..slows me down. I will take the challenge though and work through it and YES I use tons of parchment as well. In the two months I have been at this place I have NEVER seen a baking pan washed. (cept for the ones I washed) Just reuse them. 

It looks like I will be getting some new pans etc to start baking artisen breads from scratch and wanted to know about the seasoning process before they arrive. Thanks for the advice. My being sent to some training classes has the Sr guy at work upset. He wants "nothing to do with that it is more work" He hates for me to show him some braids etc. b/c I am the new guy. Go figger

In so far as the passion, not many at work have that. I guess that is their issue and not mine. I will continue to be professional, and most importantly keep a tight grip on the passion to push myself every day. Wish I had a PC to work for/beside.


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## chefpeon (Jun 14, 2006)

I could be wrong, but you shouldn't have to season them. I think I made myself out to be misunderstood in my previous post when I said the only chance you had to "season" any pan is when you get it brand new. Actually, what I meant by that, is when you get a brand new pan or pans, try to stash them in a place where others can't get to them easily, or set them aside to wash yourself, or hover protectively over them so people won't even want to bother coming near you......:lol: I kid! I kid! Sort of. 

Commercially made pans are bought in "ready to go" because manufacturers know that time is money. About the last thing a buyer of equipment wants to do is worry about messing with seasoning them after they have arrived. Stuff needs to be ready to go yesterday.

If for some reason, they do need some sort of preparation (besides being washed), then you will be informed of that by the rep or your boss, hopefully.

Be careful about "showing your boss up" with the braiding and what-not. You may be eager to show off your skills, but apparently your boss doesn't care much about that, and he sees it as though you are making him look bad. He also doesn't want to work any harder than he has to. Don't be a thorn in his side, or he'll just make it harder for you in the end. It's kind of important as far as survival on the job goes, not to step on toes...especially your boss' toes! Just a heads up. 

I've worked with many passionless, alcoholic, drug addicted, "just outta prison work release" type folks. I can count on the fingers of one hand (well, maybe two) of co-workers I'ved worked with that felt the same way about the job or cared as much about product as I did. I'm still in contact with those people too.

Of course, you can always aim higher. You can find more career-oriented people in the higher end restaurants, resorts and hotels. Especially hotels.
Perhaps while you're still employed where you are, you should start looking for something else. Get that resume out. Say in your cover letter that you are looking to work with someone that you can learn from and that you want to perfect your craft. Believe me, there's a lot of people out there who are looking to hire people like you.

I've given up on staying clean at work. I mean, that's what aprons are for!
I always start the day shiny clean with my shoes tied, and at the end of the day I look like Pig Pen from the Peanuts comic strip....with my shoes untied and a little "flour cloud" dusting up around my feet......
That's sort of the nature of our job.....you're supposed to get dirty....
If someone is still perfectly clean at the end of the day, then I always suspected they haven't been working hard enough!!!!:lol:


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

FrayedKnot,
The sanitation has to be a department wide thing. It starts in the beginning or on inventory of wares. Either dip down the pans and start washing daily or do it the otherway which is usually the norm.
Most pans don't need to be seasoned but it does not hurt to give the MFG a call to make sure. Why lose a rack. 
Sounds like you should be asking for some screens with the new program.
For cooling try to set up a cooling rack somewhere in the kitchen where they won't be in the way. You can even do this with some milk crates and bread racks taken from the dock where the commercial boys keep their things .
Some places are different. I have quite a few hundred pans that are 13 yrs. old and more with the newer pans. You can call the bakery tomarrow and ask any of the guysin the back if they can find one pan with black or crud on it. Course this does effect labor $, but I think it's worth it.
ChefPeon,
I have opened numerous large operations with hot close to pastry. You better believe the Bakery/Pastry sheetpans and other large pans were not even opened before the engineers had drilled each and every one.:lol: 
pan


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## frayedknot (Dec 17, 2006)

Chefpeon, I like the way you think. Just to clear up a point. The "boss" told me the other day, after I had a "melt down" during xmas eve rush. Found myself turning in circles and totally confused...sheesh Took a min to regroup and things were fine...I take things tooo personal hmm (note to self, make a 07 resolution) but SHE did say I am going to be excellent with a lil more "speriance". She is a terrible communicator, but she is the boss. Here's one for ya... second day on the job she told me to "shrink that" well a minute later she walked by while I was standing at the wrapping table trying to put saran wrap on it and she said what are you doing "what you told me to do" NO I mean throw it out!!  

The Sr guy I am referring to is my peer, who by the way I have apologised to on numerous occaisions, even though I really hate to. I have told him we are a team on many occaisions and I got your back. **** I even "took one for him" as being the "new guy" I have tried to show him some braids and he wants nothing to do with it...You are right he has tried to submarine me, baking only the "easy stuff" leaving me with a load of work making cheese breads etc. I did it took 9.5hrs of hard work but I did it. I called him on it and the next day he admitted to it... Hey I am taking my career choice serious and loving it, he is collecting a paycheck. 

Panini...thanks for your thoughts, and time spent on this forum as well the others who so unselfishly give their time and knowledge. I really value the "teachings" of the more experianced here.


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## munchers (Apr 4, 2007)

Iv just come on board also and i know what you mean by intimidated Frayedknok, iv been reading up on some of the discussions (that some of you guys )about the difference between sugar and isomalt , and it goes to show you how much other people know and how little you know.Im doing a report for college about them both and research on the web got me to this sight.So hello all.
But i am very involved with the pastry end of things and i love to talk about it and read about new ideas, here in Ireland we have just got the magazine chocolater and its really good. 
look forward to some chats


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