# Food Network: The Big Waste



## mrmexico25 (Jan 7, 2012)

The show premiered tonight and I just finished watching it.  The premise:  For two teams (Bobby Flay and Michael Symon vs. Anne Burrell and Alex Guarnaschelli) to create a dinner for 100 people with nothing but food that was intended or in the process of being thrown out.  Most of this food never even made it to the shelves of the grocery stores because of it's "lack of quality".  If the food has too many "bruises", the blind American consumer wont buy it, therefore it's discarded - either by trash or compost.  This is a huge problem, and some of these farms have waste percentages as high as 50%.  This is disgraceful.  It's sickening. 

The goal of the show is to open our eyes as consumers.  As cooks, and chefs.  If we can get these products and USE them before they're wasted, we can really make a difference.  Also, profit margins would skyrocket because most of this stuff you can get for free just by asking! 

I've never tried it, but I assure you, tomorrow I'll be dropping by my nearest grocery store to see what I can get.  Some of the quality they found is staggering.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

I watched only a little bit of the show, I couldn't watch all of it because I dislike Guarnaschelli and watch Ann Burrell makes me want to brush my hair compulsively so I find no enjoyment in them. 

I watched the part where they met the Freegan and although it's not something I would do I found it awesome that he didn't want to engage in consumerism and would find free food.  But then after I watched Burrell just stand there with her arms crossed the whole time he was digging for food and then professed that she "just got done foraging for food" I changed the channel.

I feel a bit helpless at the grocery and I'm afraid that I'm one of those people that overlooks certain products.  If you put 2 loafs of bread in front of me and one's expiration date is tomorrow and the others is a week from tomorrow I choose the latter.  If you put 2 piece of fruit, one bruised and one pretty I choose the pretty.  It's human nature, that's what we would do out in nature if we were gathering after all.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

I didn't watch the show, because the premise description didn't appeal. But one thing to consider: In many jurisdictions, stores are not allowed, but either law or company policy, to distribute non-sellable foods. They can't even give it to you for composting, let alone eating.

The other aspect is that dumpster diving is technically illegal. You are both trespassing and stealing. Would your local supermarket prosecute? Who knows.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

What I would like to know is how much food the Food Network throws away. We can see them throw away quite a fair amount of perfectly edible food on screen, I'm sure they actually throw away even more behind the scenes.


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## mrmexico25 (Jan 7, 2012)

I disagree, I really like Anne and Alex's cooking styles (judging from what I see on tv) but I did notice that Burrel didnt pick through the trash at all.  On tghe same token though, she wouldn't let the proscuitto goto waste that the health inspector wouldn't let them use.

As far as food wasted by the food network:  I dont know for sure what their policy is, but I'm sure they have something in place where whats cooked is eaten and whats not cooked is donated.  Hopefully.  Maybe I'm investing too much faith in the Food Network, but I'd like to think these professionals are treating their profession with respect (this goes beyond the chefs - producers, film crew etc...)


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

I've not even heard of the show, but from the standpoint of food sense, basic food safety, isn't there enough food born illness around that we don't have to give people ideas....all in the name of "entertainment?"


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## mrmexico25 (Jan 7, 2012)

@chefross:  All the product they used was checked by a health inspector and what ever didn't pass wasn't allowed to be used.  In fact, Team Burrell and Guarnaschelli weren't allowed to use some left over prosciutto because it's temperature was too high, even though it's a cure meat. 

I honestly don't see anything wrong with the programming, and if your grocery store will let you, I recommend that you do - at least try.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

_All the product they used was checked by a health inspector and what ever didn't pass wasn't allowed to be used_

Oh, yeah. That's realistic. Next time I feel like dumpster diving for scraps I'll be sure and carry a health inspector along for the ride.

You really see that as responsible programming?


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## mrmexico25 (Jan 7, 2012)

First of all, starting an argument wasn't my intention.  I don't know if you are, but it seems like you're quite upset with this subject all around, whether or not its directed towards me, The Food Network, or the idea of trying to use all of your ingredients - I apologize for that.

Second, yes I do think it's responsible programming for notifying an audience that the food was checked and obviously fit to be served as dinner.  Why wouldn't I?  Now if I think that's realistic for any average Joe to go and do?  Not necessarily.  Calm down man, it's an eye opening show to make consumers aware of what they're doing that's wasteful.  Not everyone is going to "dumpster dive", and in fact, the show wasn't based on just that.  They went to farms and recovered crops that had simply fallen on the ground.  They went to butchers and collected ends and fatty pieces that meat markets can't sell.  If you think they just went digging through trash bags then you are thoroughly mistaken.  Sorry you feel that way.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

They are running out of programming.  It must take them at least 30 seconds to write a half hour script. Reality TV is cheap to produce , no million dollar an episode actors to pay ,and no high priced set. This is the future of TV, heaven help us.


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## mrmexico25 (Jan 7, 2012)

Food network is some of the best TV around I think, that is unless you prefer Jersey Shore and the new seasons of Beavis and Butt Head. I seriously don't understand the negativity on here..../img/vbsmilies/smilies/confused.gif


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

The negativity ? simple  over the years I have seen it  go from food and cooking lessons to Paula Dean and a bunch of  housewife type shows that sell cheap pots and pans for a lot of money. Most of the former Pro's are gone. In order to be on food channel you do not have to know how to cook. You have to wear low cut blouses and be pretty and show people how in 6 minutes one can convert Stouffers beef stew into a classic Beef Strogonoff?(Lee). Or phony Paula telling you to use 3 pounds of butter for something. Flay even says as was mentioned in a recent article ''I HAD TO FORGET ALL i KNOW ABOUT COOKING TO DO A SHOW ON FOOD NETWORK""


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

MrMexico25 please understand that as professionals in the industry it is regretful that shows such as this air on the public television airwaves.

You may see this type of programming as being helpful and educational, while we view it quite differently.

Programming on the food network has nothing to do with educating the public about food in any way.

It is purely entertainment.

Nothing else.

Can you truly tell us that you learned how to cook something by watching a contestant on a program?

You see the technique, you see the ingredients, you see the entire production of the food item. I think not!!!!

It is you that does not understand what programs like this are doing to the public.


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## reverendfoodie (Jan 10, 2012)

I think most are over looking the purpose of the show, it's not to show some great dish or some exotic ingredient, it is trying to show a major problem in America and the rest of the world!! food that goes to waste when it could be feeding people, 93 billion pounds of food is wasted every year just in North America and Oceania (that is Canada, the USA, Mexico and all of the Pacific Islands), thats 650 pounds per person, while at the same time "1 in 7 people in the U.S. now subsist on food stamps, and, in 2009, nearly 15 percent of U.S. households were found to have low or very low "food security," meaning that, on a regular basis, nearly 50 million Americans ran short on food."(_The starvation of America's middle class By __Dominic Basulto__ of The Washington Post)._ So how much food do you waste in your day to day operation as a restaurateur or chef, what do you do with your unused food, do you throw it away or do you donate it to a homeless shelter or food bank, you cannot use the excuse of it being illegal because its not, as a mater of fact the is a law that protects people from liability for donating food, its called _"Bill Emerson Good Samaritan Act of 1996"._

The point of the show was that the food never should have made it to the garbage, better management of resource at the restaurant and grocery store level will low your cost and provide food to those in need.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

The negativity is not towards you, the members on this forum are in general quite negative towards the Food network.  I agree with you that the concept of being less wasteful is very important, however I'm not sure this particular show is helpful.  There are other networks that focus solely on these types of topics and their programming is better.  The Food Network has become a series of tedious contests all of which are quite predictable (I mean come on, it was a given that Spike would be the first to go, Alex G. would advance very far, and that chef Z. would be the winner in the recent Iron chef competition).  It makes me think that Alex G. must be very independently wealthy or must own the FN because they promote her in every way they can even though I don't like her food, her skills or her demeanor in any way. 

And I'm very upset but Anne Burrell's hair.  Seriously, what's wrong with her?  I'm never one to judge a woman by her looks but somebody please tell her that there is this brilliant little device called a comb.


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## reverendfoodie (Jan 10, 2012)

Anne Burrell's hair can be overwhelming and Alex is not my favorite chef while Bobby and Michael are two of my favorites, but thats not important. The thing that makes FN the perfect place for this show is the fact they have such a large viewership, now the number of people that are aware of what is for all intense purpose a national tragedy is large enough for people to start making a change in how we look at the food we eat and the food we throw away. After all we thow away a bushell of tomatos because a blemish the size of a dime.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

So you're saying FN is now operating in the public service arenae?

Gimme an effin break!

_It makes me think that Alex G. must be very independently wealthy _

Don't overlook the fact that Bobby Flay is her rabbi. And at FN that counts for a lot.


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## planethoff (Apr 25, 2011)

I haven't seen that show on FN, but this thread reminded me of a movie Dive! Living off America's Waste http://www.divethefilm.com/ I'll admit I don't necessarily agree with all of their agenda, but it does open your eyes up to the major food waste problems in this country. In kitchens I work (have worked in) I try to use every bit for food I can and compost the rest. Hey that reminds me of the thread on putting onion skins, potato peels, etc in stock. yuk


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## rainy day (Jan 10, 2012)

Hi, My name is Robert and I am the freegan that helped Ann. There is no laws against trespassing for garbage bags on the curb. The laws only apply to actual dumpsters that are owned by other than the city. Please brush up on the laws to avoid scaring people from doing the right thing. Thanks.


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## planethoff (Apr 25, 2011)

Good for you Robert!   I am only against it when it is breaking into somewhere illegally, but I don't have the fortitude to do it myself.  I have a couple friends who did it for a year and still do on occasion.  It's scary how much we waste.  I am one who is always called crazy because I only quick-thaw under water on the rarest of times to conserve water.  It kills me to see 4 faucets running full blast for 4-5 hrs every day down the drain.


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## reverendfoodie (Jan 10, 2012)

_Don't overlook the fact that Bobby Flay is her rabbi. And at FN that counts for a lot._

Can an fourth generation Irish American be a Rabbi?

your letting your opinion about Food Network and it's stars get in the way of the problem at hand, the fact that we are wasting food at an alarming rate of 93 billion pounds a year while 50 million people in the US - 1 in 6 of the population can't afford enough food. so if this had been on NBC, CNN, the BBC or some other new report would it be more credible than FN, because f you say yes then shame on you because the BBC, Fox news, the LA Times, the Washington Post, New York Time, CBS, Men's Health, CNN and more have all covered this issue, some more than once, some were done in 2007. So please stop looking at the the chefs involved and look at the problem and how you can stop it and when you have food that you can't serve to your customers be cause of ascetic's reasons but is still safe and fit to eat please consider giving it to homeless shelters or food banks in your area, after all a bushel of tomatoes that are blemished or bruised will make a lot of tomato soup.


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## jeremuzzz (Jan 11, 2012)

Alrighty.Seeing the amount CHEFS and COOKS deny food on this forum is appalling. I've recently begun reading up on food safety, and it took only 2 hours of reading to discover that most foods that we deem "unhealthy" (over 80%) and that's thrown away only requires a quick heat to a cooked temperature or a nice cleaning and they're perfectly edible. Bread, fruits, meat, vegetables, all tossed because they weren't "in their best condition for consumption"

The documentary "Dive" opened my eyes to the fact that HALFof america's food is thrown away annually, meaning we overproduce by 100%. 

To put it into perspective, we eat a meal and throw one away everytime we stuff our faces in America.

So all of these people complaining about food health can leave, because there are tens of thousands of families living this way daily, and if they didn't scavenge like our ancestors they would be as dead as the human race's appreciation of the planet and her wonders.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

Don't keep it bottled up, let us know how you feel.


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## jeremuzzz (Jan 11, 2012)

Sorry, just had to throw away 15 plates of food because they were wrong orders and I'm just slightly irritated.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

_ There is no laws against trespassing for garbage bags on the curb_. _Please brush up on the laws to avoid scaring people from doing the right thing. _

First of all, Robert, I specifically mentioned dumpsters when talking about the illegality of it. So maybe you need to brush up on your reading skills. There are very few restaurants, supermarkets, and similar venues that put their trash out at the curb. Which means you're primarily talking about the garbage tossed by private citizens. If you think that rummaging around in other people's trash to find food that may or may not be edible is "the right thing" then I happily leave you to it.

The simple fact is that there are very few people in America unaware of the fact that we waste an incredible amount of food. But if you think a "reality competition" on FN is going to change that you're living in a fool's paradise. But.....enjoy your lunch, such as it is.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

ChefHoff said:


> ...It kills me to see 4 faucets running full blast for 4-5 hrs every day down the drain..


I do not believe that is the way it is supposed to be, one faucet, barely on, is sufficient.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Why throw it away, why not donate it?



Jeremuzzz said:


> Sorry, just had to throw away 15 plates of food because they were wrong orders and I'm just slightly irritated.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Everyone knows that the food wasters are:

Factory farms
Greed driven food purveyors
corporate owned mega-marts
right? None of the 99% waste any food, right?


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## foodnfoto (Jan 1, 2001)

KYHeirloomer said:


> _ There is no laws against trespassing for garbage bags on the curb_. _Please brush up on the laws to avoid scaring people from doing the right thing. _
> 
> First of all, Robert, I specifically mentioned dumpsters when talking about the illegality of it. So maybe you need to brush up on your reading skills. There are very few restaurants, supermarkets, and similar venues that put their trash out at the curb. Which means you're primarily talking about the garbage tossed by private citizens. If you think that rummaging around in other people's trash to find food that may or may not be edible is "the right thing" then I happily leave you to it.
> 
> The simple fact is that there are very few people in America unaware of the fact that we waste an incredible amount of food. But if you think a "reality competition" on FN is going to change that you're living in a fool's paradise. But.....enjoy your lunch, such as it is.


You said you didn't even watch the show, Jelly. Why trash those who find the premise interesting?

Back away from your computer. Just back away.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

*LOL. You GO!!! MrMexico25.* You're fresh, and I can appreciate that. Don't ever leave this forum.

I haven't watched the show. I wasn't even aware of it until now. I do exactly the same as that show, as it sounds, every time I cook in a shelter. I guarantee that I can do it better. I have NO negativity or animosity for the _FoodTV_ people for that either. I like all those _FoodTV_ people, except Alex G., who I can't stand. I've never had any problems getting _"soon to be thrown away"_ food from grocery stores, restaurants, specialty stores and all the like. It's basically building up relationships with professionals extending simple professional courtesy. Those who understand the humanity of helping to feed a shelter anyway.

I watch all the _FoodTV_ shows that I choose based on the _ENTERTAINMENT VALUE to ME_. I'm not really watching to learn anything, just to be entertained. Although I have learned and picked up a lot of good ideas from _DD&D_. There are so many shows that I wouldn't let children watch that are so much worse, in my opinion, than anything that may be suggested on _FoodTV_. I find it completely against all humanity how much the cast of _"Jersey Shore"_ makes, and how many people watch that stuff.

Anne Burrell is gorgeous; a culinary knock-out. Like I've said before somewhere, she can become _"Mrs.Iceman"_ tomorrow if she likes. I love all the rest of them too; Giada, Lisa, Marcela, Nigella, Rachael, Ree and Sandra. _(And these are just the ones from_ *Food Network.* _LOL.)_


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## mrmexico25 (Jan 7, 2012)

Let me put it this way:

I DO watch food network for entertainment value, and ya know what?  I've learned quite a few things while watching too.  Am I posted up with a notepad and paper taking notes?  Hell no.  But when I see one of the of the chefs do something I find interesting, I copy it or build on it and make it my own.  It stirs my mind, and keeps cooking on the brain even when I'm being a lazy oaf and not actually cooking. 

To say you don't watch food network is fine, but to claim that there's nothing remotely educational is crazy.  REGARDLESS of how many years you've "worked" in the restaurants, if you shut your self off from resources, you become STAGNANT.  Your ideas aren't original, you become complacent.  But I guess that's why you paid $60,000 for an "education" that makes you superior.

All the food network does for me is give me ideas, and inspiration. 

And please, quit whining about the food network stars.  They get paid to cook on TV.  You don't.  You would do it too if you were offered their paycheck, I GUARANTEE IT.


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## mrmexico25 (Jan 7, 2012)

GOD now I'm angry.  Its 4 am and I havent slept GAHQASDFSDA!


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

In Florida Health Dept .. If you throw food out into a dumpster(private) and someone comes by and picks through and eats it, If they get sick because of food piosoning they could sue you.  Crazy Laws we have.


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## planethoff (Apr 25, 2011)

PeteMcCracken said:


> I do not believe that is the way it is supposed to be, one faucet, barely on, is sufficient.


One faucet per item. The daily prep at one kitchen I worked in would quick thaw, whole chicken, pork loin, shrimp, steak, etc. all morning. They never cared about proper pulls the day before, they just quick thawed everything on their list. And a barely on faucet is fine for a couple pounds but when you are talking 25# + the faucet is full bore. Had 6 prep sinks used 4-5 for thaw every day


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## reverendfoodie (Jan 10, 2012)

Everyone keeps talking about dumpster diving and taking food out of the trash, but what is being suggested is stopping before it gets that far, can you imagine have of the food you ordered for you restaurant this week going in the trash, now imagine that yous saved all that food from the trash and that food you did have to get rid of went to was still safe to eat and went to people that needed it, It's not about what you can dig out of the trash, it's about what you can prevent from going into the trash to begin with.


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## mrmexico25 (Jan 7, 2012)

Reverend:  That's what I was trying to get across!  This is food that can be salvaged from crops that are headed straight to compost!  It's not going door to door digging through someones personal garbage at all. 

It's overproducing to find that PERFECT tomato, and that's ridiculous.


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## reverendfoodie (Jan 10, 2012)

mrmexico25: I was trying to get some of the others to quit focusing on the trash and their opinions of the food network, I don't know if their jealous or under conviction for their own waste of food


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

mrmexico25 said:


> ...It's overproducing to find that PERFECT tomato, and that's ridiculous.


And why is that happening? Well, one, rather strong, contributory factor is that Mr./Mrs/Ms. consumer refuses to use a less than perfect tomato in the dead of winter in Buffalo, NY.

Sheesh, as a kid I can remember looking forward with anticipation for the first tomato of the summer! And they sure as h3ll were not perfect, but they tasted perfect!

Why do farmers/growers/producers/processors/wholesalers/grocery stores only market "perfect" fruits and vegetables and discard the rest? Simple, see the first sentence.

Why is less than perfect produce discarded at the earliest possible moment? Simple, to save fuel costs of transportation and contamination of the "perfect" crop.

*THINK* for a moment...does it really make sense for a farmers/growers/producers/processors/wholesalers/grocery store to discard any of what they produced or purchased? Why do they do it? IMHO, *BECAUSE THE AVERAGE AMERICAN CONSUMER WILL NOT **BUY IT AT ANY PRICE!*

Quit blaming the farmers/growers/producers/processors/wholesalers/grocery store and place the blame where it belongs, *ON THE CONSUMER!!!!!!!*


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## mrmexico25 (Jan 7, 2012)

Pete:  Sorry if I came across by putting blame on the producer of the product.  That was not my intention.  Clearly, the blame is on the consumer who has been brainwashed to accept only the BEST ingredients.  It handcuffs the farmers, markets, etc in producing only the best, and disgarding the rest.


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## reverendfoodie (Jan 10, 2012)

one of the biggest problems is that people don't grown any of their own food any more, I'm just a guilt as everyone else in America, this spring though my family is planting small garden with some tomatoes, cucumbers, and a few other things. the nice thing is that you can do it anywhere, if you have a window you can grow a tomato.


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## foodnfoto (Jan 1, 2001)

> Why do farmers/growers/producers/processors/wholesalers/grocery stores only market "perfect" fruits and vegetables and discard the rest?


One answer-Corporate Agribusiness

They are in the business of not only growing and supplying those "perfect" looking foods, but in marketing them by convincing the consumer that it's what that food should be. In addition, agri-business develops ways to manufacture that food to maximize the economies of scale, while giving little consideration to the overall quality of the food or the conditions their employees must work in. Think factory hog, chicken, beef farms and 1000 acres of tomatoes picked by migrant farm workers.

I don't know how to fix the problem of feeding the millions that live in the US with the goal of increasing quality of the food and improving the average American diet. Encouraging people to shop at local farmers markets is a stab in the right direction, but the prices these farmers must charge is a problem for many people.

Even so, there is the problem of wasted food at the markets too. Our business benefits enormously from buying the leftover cases of bruised fruit that the farmers are unable to sell. We buy that fruit at a reduced price and then we make healthy fruit pops from it. It's a win-win for everyone-the farmers don't have to take the loss on the unsellable fruit and we get a great price.

It would be great if we, as food pros, can find ways to increase this farmer-food operator cooperation.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

OK, how about we turn this thread around.....Campus Kitchens are getting donated food (prepared and raw) with student volunteers to feed homebound or just hungry people on a regular basis...they accept donations from the university food service, Trader Joes donates a lot, caterers, restaurants, event sites, etc.....it's a good program.

I'd like to see kitchens set up at food pantries that have culinary students looking to pay off loans or learn production cooking, prepare meals with just the food being discussed.  Gleaning programs at farms, farmers markets, gardeners with extra produce, etc.....

I'd like to see SNAP & WIC participants be able to get this prepared fresh food.   I'd like to see Health Clinics run loops of chefs preparing economical healthy meals.  I'd like to see portable farmer's markets with chefs/culinary students on board stopping in food deserts and providing samples of fresh produce, recipes, demos.....

I'd like to see community gardens combine with chefs/culinary students doing the same thing....cooking demos, sampling, recipes......

Last month I visited a beef processing plant to actually see how a top of the line plant takes their cattle through the kill, processing process.....as a nose to tail cooking chef I was able to see where product that they were paying to throw out, that would be on my table.   There is a need for collaboration amoungst the different areas of the food community.

Get edible food out of the waste stream, is a great mission statement.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Intersting thread.  Iceman was right, you are fresh, and don't leave this site Mr Mexico.

I don't advocate dumpster diving, but I do frequently seek out "specials" from local grocers. Black bannanas have far more flavour and are preferred for

bannana bread and muffins, over ripe apples and pears are pretty darn good for fruit butters. 

Any dairy products past the expiry date get the "treatment":  Freeze until I have a large quantity, then into the 30 qt stock pot and boiled  with an addition of lemon juice.  Milk solids coagulate, and are strained off, and I use this for many things

I do stop at meats though, no "specials" there.  But when I do buy meat, I use everything, meat, fat, skin, gristle, bone.

We can blame the consumer, but the consumer is only doing what they have been trained to do, we can blame the advertising, but advertising is only doing what it's customers want.

Honestly?  I don't think the situation on food wastage will improve until it  gets worse.  When prices get so high that people will actually stop and think, when going to a supermarket will be as strange and foriegn as using a phone with a dial you have to turn for each number. 

Won't  happen for a while yet.  But there are signs.  Canada's contribution to N.America, the Canada goose, has been giving cities and municipaites a lot of problems.  Quite a few places are opting to cull the birds and use the meat for food banks and homelese shelters.  Well, it's a start


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Buying damaged food is tricky for the home consumer. They have to have a way to use it quickly and the knowledge and desire to do it. Further, in the US, so many people shop only once a week, the damaged food would be all bad by the time the consumer got around to it. 

At its core, the issues surrounding food waste revolve around time which few US consumers are willing to devote to food prep.  US food consumption values convenience quite highly.

The scale and time issues make good sense for a commercial user as foodpump demonstrates.

There are a few "grocers" in my area who buy the aging out products and damaged goods from the other grocers and sell at a good markdown. If I know I'm going to use it immediately, I've done some shopping there before and will again.  I'm wearing a shirt right now a friend bought there and gave to me.


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## lennyd (Dec 3, 2010)

Have to admit with all the emotion and strong opinion in this thread I was surprised to see it was sort of left for bad or dead etc.

Hope the thread has not reached it expiration date.

I think there was some great points raised here like FN being mostly entertainment, the beauty of their hosts is like most times in the eye of the beholder, if your looking to learn cooking skills there are better places etc, but more importantly when people put their heads together (that includes a few butts as well lol) there can be good outcomes, or at least ideas that come from it.

I do not think anyone would argue that America has become a country of "waste" and food is a big part of that waste. but I also believe that in order to reduce waste you first have to understand or learn of all the many other wastes that have also become a daily routine (disposable everything, too many non repairable items, etc) and the underlying cause(s).

Today our landfills are literally filled with items that in years past would have been re used or repaired. Shoes needing soles, coats and jackets with a rip or tear, old furniture needing some stain, newer furniture that had fallen apart from being so cheaply made, countless electric power tools that were replaced with cheaply made imports and then all the cheaply made imported tool etc, etc, etc.

It seems easy to me at least to just blame the consumer, and also this does not figure well as we need to give to much credit to the majority of consumers to be actually making their own decisions in the first place. Sure we all decide what we pick up in a grocery store etc, but the products and prices offered, and the knowledge relied on to make the decision was given to or chosen for all.

Much of this has evolved over more years than I have been around, but sometime during or over the last 100 or so years consumers in general have had a change in mindset from buying the best they could afford (AKA quality) and mostly all local to buying the least expensive or "cheapest" they can find no matter what part of the world it came from.

Somehow it seems during this same time our government and also businesses have greatly changed as well. Somehow while consumers had started looking for the cheapest and to spend the least government grew insanely and business was ever becoming more and more large corporate dominated.

I do not have the time or knowledge to get into details, but it seems somehow there is a connection to all the changes that have created what appears to be a greedy, cheap, and wasteful consumer, and I am pretty sure you will need to find a way to reverse some of the changes in order to reduce the waste.

It would also seem that in order to truly find what has driven the changes one would only need to follow the money trail.

I find it amazing how so many times you can find an answer to complicated problems involving important issues just by seeing who had gained the most from the changes or current conditions.

Since many have had great ideas that sound like they would help I believe this is a step closer etc, but from experience I know very well there is a long way to go in order for any of this to gain some roots and become large enough to make a difference.

Maybe the next logical step for those serious about reducing the waste is to start discussing how to implement any of it, and the pro's and con's of such.


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## rainy day (Jan 10, 2012)

_There are very few restaurants, supermarkets, and similar venues that put their trash out at the curb. Which means you're primarily talking about the garbage tossed by private citizens._

The dumpster dive segment was shot in Manhattan. contrary to the movies you might have seen about this place there are very few dumpsters in this town for the one reason that they take up too much space. So every large supermarket puts out hundreds of garbage bags as you saw in the film. Imagine a front end loading trash truck trying to maneuver itself to pick up a dumpster in the middle of a street that never sleeps, impossible.

on to your next point of despair. I would not advocate "rummaging in other people's trash" either. The point of the segment was to show the commercial waste that is the response to the consumers needs, so we are at a commercial location, not a individual consumer home. Furthermore diving is not something I would advocate to anyone unless educated first. You must know when to look, where to look, how to look as well as having a host of well needed equipment.

Finally, I as well as thousands of other bloggers do believe this special will cause a change. Love it or hate it, they are both an obsession and that is what this movement needs so thanks for your input.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Rainy Day said:


> _There are very few restaurants, supermarkets, and similar venues that put their trash out at the curb. Which means you're primarily talking about the garbage tossed by private citizens._
> 
> The dumpster dive segment was shot in Manhattan. contrary to the movies you might have seen about this place there are very few dumpsters in this town for the one reason that they take up too much space. So every large supermarket puts out hundreds of garbage bags as you saw in the film. Imagine a front end loading trash truck trying to maneuver itself to pick up a dumpster in the middle of a street that never sleeps, impossible.
> 
> ...


Living in NY myself I can attest to what Rainy Day says, dumpsters are a rarity here, they are mostly seen at construction sites and disappear after the construction is over. On trash day the streets are overflowing with black trash bags, homes and businesses alike. You should see how large these piles of trash bags grow when we have a snow storm and the garbage trucks are out plowing the streets http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/03/nyregion/03garbage.html or http://www.good.is/post/in-nyc-after-the-snow-comes-the-garbage/


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

I had an interesting conversation with a 30 year old yesterday about this thread....we were talking about how systemic change happens.   I mentioned the mid60's through mid 70's when the hippies montra was saving Mother Earth....where organic farming, cooking from scratch, baking whole grained breads, eating yogurts, honeys, tofu, veg...etc.....being a conscience citizen and reusing/recycling/treating the environment as stewards instead of consumers who didn't have a vested interest in it's health.  I was a youngster in the 60's-70's and don't know if the grassroots moved govt & how govt supported the movement.  Seems like it did for a while.

Thoughts?


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Yup, money.

If it's cheaper to do things in a wastefull way, both producer and consumer will continue to do so untill another option becomes cheaper.

As far as I'm concerned, this is just plain human nature.

When a 30 story building converts all of it's standard lighting to a high efficient l.e.d. lighting system--inspite of a high start-up cost, it is done because over a 20 yr period it is much cheaper to do. True, the standard incandescent and florescent lighting is not particularily effecient--wastefull, but only when it becoems economical to change, will man do so.

So, only when it becomes too expensive to ship tomatoes from Cal. or Mexico, will people either grow their own, or make do without.

But an a'la carte restaurant, by it's very nature_* is *_wastefull. X amount of menu items must be available at all times. This demands a lot of energy to store, cook, and replenish these items. And there is no guarantee that these items will be sold.

And if a restaurant is wastefull, then a supermarket is twice as bad. Yet both of these types of businesses wouldn't survive withourt willing customers.

.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

within the past month one of our local grocery stores (higher end) started selling greatly discounted meat....ie veal scallopine usually $15.99# for $3.99 with 3 days left on expiration.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

I'm not all so sure about this. I think I'd rather deal with making/plating individual items as I go, instead of having items not get eaten in the first place. Maybe having to produce only _what will be eaten_ is less wasteful than throwing away what is not wanted so much. Proper portioning is a standard restaurant issue every day. Doing it correctly I guess, is the trick.

Quote:


foodpump said:


> But an a'la carte restaurant, by it's very nature_* is *_wastefull. X amount of menu items must be available at all times. This demands a lot of energy to store, cook, and replenish these items.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

IceMan said:


> ... Proper portioning is a standard restaurant issue every day. Doing it correctly I guess, is the trick.


Without question, now, if we could just sell those portions/img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif

Restaurant waste, IMHO, is probably predominately in food products that never get ordered before they go out of date or turn stale.


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## star bug (Dec 21, 2011)

sorry, double post


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## star bug (Dec 21, 2011)

Yes, most of the waste, food and otherwise, always leads back to greed for money or lack of appreciation.

Having said that, if I'm standing in front of the produce in the supermarket I always pick the nicer/fresher one. It will last longer and I only shop once or twice a week. But I try to use up everything I buy. It hurts me to throw food into the garbage. I make juice out of 'old' produce. And I try to plan ahead at home and in the store for what I'll need that week.

I'll have to watch that show, havn't seen it yet.

Like someone else mentioned, I watch the foodnetwork not for education, but for entertainment and inspiration.


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

it's not only food that is wasteful..it's the packaging as well...a normal household tries to be good citizens of the planet by diligently separating their bottles, cans, plastic and papers while restaurants, bars, hotels, hospitals,schools etc. do none of this. a bar or restaurant on one busy night can generate a whole weeks worth of neighborhood recyclables....hospital, schools and large hotels...daily. times that by 7 days a week by 4 weeks a month by 12 months a year..it adds up to a lotta lotta insanity...what to do? start by making recycling mandatory....

joey

hope this doesn't give this thread stretch marks, but we can never be reminded too often..






oh, and another thing...

children(adults too) don't see or understand their food connection beyond their local safeway(grocery store), so start there..awareness of and how we are connected to our food..to learn and understand sustainability...educate, educate, educate....

are we a 'we' society, or a 'me' society?


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

This thread is making me anxious.  I went to a restaurant in DC this weekend and ordered a dish that was too horrible to eat.  But I didn't send it back because I didn't want to be wasteful.  So there I sat eating terrible food and then I paid for it.  Don't worry, I will yelp it.  How bad was it?  Let's just say velveeta was involved.


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## reverendfoodie (Jan 10, 2012)

there's a big difference between being wasteful and returning something your going to eat and pay for, if your going to go to a restaurant and order food it should be eatable, don't confuse bad cooking with wasting food


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## kaneohegirlinaz (Apr 24, 2011)

It use to be that people had kitchen gardens.  Our family had a small plot right out the back door and if you got a tomato that wasn't perfect, that was ok, you just cut that part off.  Or if you got more of one thing or another that your family could use before it went bad, you shared it with your neighbors.  I have this program on our DVR, just haven't had a chance to sit down and watch it, YET!  And for the record, I LIKE FOOD NETWORK!  Yeah, so it's not Julia on PBS, but it's fun, it's entertaining and it's way better than watching some of the other "reality tv".


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## mrmexico25 (Jan 7, 2012)

Kane:  I agree completely. 

I would love to start a garden at my restaurant but it's exremely difficult because I'm on a floating dock.  We've done pots of fresh herbs before (basil, thyme, rosemary) and even some peppers, but I would like to start gardening tomatoes and other produce sometime soon at my house.  That's hard too though because I rent an apartment and don't actually own the land so I don't think the landlord will allow me to have my own garden.  I'm making a ton of excuses, but it seems like it would be easier once I own my own home.  Thoughts?


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

mrmexico25 said:


> Kane: I agree completely.
> 
> I would love to start a garden at my restaurant but it's exremely difficult because I'm on a floating dock. We've done pots of fresh herbs before (basil, thyme, rosemary) and even some peppers, but I would like to start gardening tomatoes and other produce sometime soon at my house. That's hard too though because I rent an apartment and don't actually own the land so* I don't think the landlord will allow me to have my own garden*. I'm making a ton of excuses, but it seems like it would be easier once I own my own home. Thoughts?


What do you have to lose by asking? If part of the yard is not being used then it may not be a problem. The worst he could say is no.


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## reverendfoodie (Jan 10, 2012)

MrMexico, if you have room at your restaurant you could build a small garden or two by using 2x10 or 2x12, to make a box and line the bottom with garden/flower bed fabric all the way up the sides, use a mixture of sand, fertilizer (the kind you get from cows and horses) and top or potting soil. plant some tomato's, cucumbers, peppers whatever you like and instead of making that the bulk of your dishes, feature what you grow as the star of a few special dishes you want to stand out. just a thought, hope it's something you can use.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

> I would love to start a garden at my restaurant but it's exremely difficult because I'm on a floating dock.


What about rooftop gardening as an option?


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

rick bayless has roof gardens, and essentially turned his back yard into a veg garden....it's beautiful.


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## foodnfoto (Jan 1, 2001)

I've heard of quite a few large food producers developing rooftop gardens. Eli Zabar here in NY is doing it-growing a garden on the roof above his huge baking facility. The heat that rises from the ovens allows lots of veggies to be grown even when it's quite cold outside.

Bravo


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

cold frame gardening is a beautiful thing!  easy and inexpensive as well. then there are 'grow domes' of varying sizes....

joey


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

Koukouvagia said:


> This thread is making me anxious. I went to a restaurant in DC this weekend and ordered a dish that was too horrible to eat. But I didn't send it back because I didn't want to be wasteful. So there I sat eating terrible food and then I paid for it. Don't worry, I will yelp it. How bad was it? Let's just say velveeta was involved.


kk,

while i'm the worst one for sending anything back to the kitchen it's not because of wastefulness but because of usually not wanting to upset a lovely evening. the exception is if something is raw that isn't suppose to be, like chicken. i usually just suffer quietly or drink more wine. i am, however, trying to change my tune now that it's a new year! as customers we NEED to make the kitchen responsible and accountable for our food the way we ordered it. we order a certain dish in a certain way for certain reasons and with certain expectations and we trust that the kitchen will deliver on their promise to make it so.. it's one of the reasons we go out in the first place isn't it?, for someone to deliver on a promise to eat well without having to make it yourself. i expect nothing less from my customers..it's what keeps us on our toes and our edges sharp...

curious though, what was you you ordered?

joey


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Hotel Chefs were doing rooftop gardening (herbs and micro-greens) in Vancouver since the mid 90's.


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## mrmexico25 (Jan 7, 2012)

Very true.  Yea it's not like she's gonna evict me haha


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## mrmexico25 (Jan 7, 2012)

Same goes with a rooftop garden, it's not my building so I'd have to get permission from the marina manager.  Plus, it's not a flat roof, it's quite slanted and also a very crummy metal building.  Probably not ideal.


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## chefjpauley (Jan 18, 2012)

disappointing thread I thought we were going to talk about how the food network is a waste


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

durangojo said:


> kk,
> 
> while i'm the worst one for sending anything back to the kitchen it's not because of wastefulness but because of usually not wanting to upset a lovely evening. the exception is if something is raw that isn't suppose to be, like chicken. i usually just suffer quietly or drink more wine. i am, however, trying to change my tune now that it's a new year! as customers we NEED to make the kitchen responsible and accountable for our food the way we ordered it. we order a certain dish in a certain way for certain reasons and with certain expectations and we trust that the kitchen will deliver on their promise to make it so.. it's one of the reasons we go out in the first place isn't it?, for someone to deliver on a promise to eat well without having to make it yourself. i expect nothing less from my customers..it's what keeps us on our toes and our edges sharp...
> 
> ...


I ordered shrimp with cheesy grits. The shrimp were rubbery, floating in a pool of velveeta cheese. I looked for the grits but there didn't seem to be any.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

chefjpauley said:


> disappointing thread I thought we were going to talk about how the food network is a waste


We've already figured that out. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif


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## benway (May 24, 2009)

The food waste in America doesn't bother me especially in restaurants.  This is simply a problem that capitalism solves.  Its in a person's or business's own interest to reduce waste or at the very least pass on the waste to the purveyors and vendors.  Its in the purveyors and vendors own interest to reduce or pass on waste through their prices, business practices, and shipping methods.  This is not exactly an epidemic.


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

it's not an epidemic YET!.... if it's not an epidemic now it soon will be...landfills being what they are and everything!

joey


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## mrmexico25 (Jan 7, 2012)

@ Koukou...

That sounds terrible.  Just the words "shrimp" and "velvetta" make me quiver.  What a terrible combo...


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## foodnfoto (Jan 1, 2001)

> I ordered shrimp with cheesy grits. The shrimp were rubbery, floating in a pool of velveeta cheese. I looked for the grits but there didn't seem to be any.


Oooohhhhh! This PAINS me to the core!

My old friend, Bill Neal (now long gone) popularized the low country dish of Shrimp and Grits during the '80s. When made properly it is a true delight.

My hunky and I still make it for our Yankee friends when having company over.

What an abomination!


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

foodnfoto said:


> Oooohhhhh! This PAINS me to the core!
> 
> My old friend, Bill Neal (now long gone) popularized the low country dish of Shrimp and Grits during the '80s. When made properly it is a true delight.
> 
> ...


It truly was painful.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

*Growing a Tower of Basil With Roofless, Rainwater-Harvesting Aquaponics*

An innovative system funnels rainwater into a fish tank to feed a tower of basil.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

benway said:


> The food waste in America doesn't bother me especially in restaurants. This is simply a problem that capitalism solves. Its in a person's or business's own interest to reduce waste or at the very least pass on the waste to the purveyors and vendors. Its in the purveyors and vendors own interest to reduce or pass on waste through their prices, business practices, and shipping methods. This is not exactly an epidemic.


Uh... capitalism created fast food, convienience food, supermarkets, and franchises. It also created packaging and advertising.

My customers demand that I have attractive packaging for my chocolates, the (deleted)-ing box costs more than the chocolates. And it's still cheaper for me to get the boxes from China than locally.

I order butcher twine along with top rounds, grnd beef chubs, and primeribs. Everything comes in a separate box. Even the string. Wtf? even the string.

It won't get better untill it becomes cheaper to be more ecologically minded. Only when water becomes metered will people install low-flush toilets, and collect rainwater to water their lawns and gardens. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to deviate a downspout into a barrel for collection, but no one does it because it's cheaper and easier to turn on a hose.


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## reverendfoodie (Jan 10, 2012)

benway said:


> The food waste in America doesn't bother me especially in restaurants. This is simply a problem that capitalism solves. Its in a person's or business's own interest to reduce waste or at the very least pass on the waste to the purveyors and vendors. Its in the purveyors and vendors own interest to reduce or pass on waste through their prices, business practices, and shipping methods. This is not exactly an epidemic.


Not an epidemic? at 50% waste in most cases what else would you call it, if a city, county, or state had an illness rate that high it would be a national emergency, if a computer company had a 50% failure rate it would go bankrupt, so if a farm waste half of its product and then a grocery store or food wholesaler waste even 10% of its product and restaurant waste as little as 20% of its product. do you see the problem and what it could mean for the nation as a whole, it could be the start an economic and health disaster of unimaginable proportions


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

> Not an epidemic? at 50% waste in most cases what else would you call it, if a city, county, or state had an illness rate that high it would be a national emergency


I think more in terms of what a crime it is, but Reverendfoodie what is the solution?

"You must be the change you want to see in the world." --Mahatma Gandhi

Next time when shopping, take Gandhi's quote along. It is a powerful mirror.


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## reverendfoodie (Jan 10, 2012)

cheflayne your right, it is a crime. but to overcome the problem it's going to take everyone doing the right thing, farmers, store owners, chefs, and consumers.


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## benway (May 24, 2009)

foodpump said:


> Uh... capitalism created fast food, convienience food, supermarkets, and franchises. It also created packaging and advertising.
> 
> My customers demand that I have attractive packaging for my chocolates, the (deleted)-ing box costs more than the chocolates. And it's still cheaper for me to get the boxes from China than locally.
> 
> ...


You say fast food, convenience food, supermarkets, and franchises implying they are bad. Of course you may get some support on a forum of foodies but in America all of those things are widely considered good ideas and the vast majority are happy to use them all.

Water would be metered if it was more valuable. Its not as if truffles are going to waste. In the end the market often determines that time and money are worth more than efficiency when it comes to things like food and water. As an owner/operator though you know that running a small business in this industry requires fighting for every penny and its in your interest to use all of what you paid for and hold your suppliers honest. Also do the boxes cost more than your chocolates or just the ingredients in them? Because that's not what your customers pay for--they pay for your time and talents.


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## benway (May 24, 2009)

Reverendfoodie said:


> Not an epidemic? at 50% waste in most cases what else would you call it, if a city, county, or state had an illness rate that high it would be a national emergency, if a computer company had a 50% failure rate it would go bankrupt, so if a farm waste half of its product and then a grocery store or food wholesaler waste even 10% of its product and restaurant waste as little as 20% of its product. do you see the problem and what it could mean for the nation as a whole, it could be the start an economic and health disaster of unimaginable proportions


Ridiculous analogy much?


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

benway said:


> ...Water would be metered if it was more valuable...


Um, where I'm located, it is metered!


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## reverendfoodie (Jan 10, 2012)

benway said:


> Ridiculous analogy much?


Ridiculous waste much!!! ridiculous number of people will go to bed tonight without eating while we debate whether or not food waste is an epidemic. by definition an epidemic means:

1. affecting many persons at the same time, and spreading from person to person in a locality where the disease is not permanently prevalent.

2. extremely prevalent; widespread.

so you may disagree but I believe that epidemic is exactly what we have, and it's going to get worse unless we start making a change, there's no one solution, farmers are going to have to start sending their product to market even when its not picture perfect but still perfectly eatable and consumers at all levels are going to have to stop equating quality flavor with just the appearance of the item much!


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## benway (May 24, 2009)

Reverendfoodie said:


> Ridiculous waste much!!! *ridiculous number of people will go to bed tonight without eating* while we debate whether or not food waste is an epidemic. by definition an epidemic means:
> 
> 1. affecting many persons at the same time, and spreading from person to person in a locality where the disease is not permanently prevalent.
> 
> ...


Really how many? In America that is because world hunger is a different logistical issue. You meet a lot of starving people in America because I meet people that can buy live lobster with food stamps.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Reverendfoodie said:


> ... farmers are going to have to start sending their product to market even when its not picture perfect but still perfectly eatable...


This makes absolutely no sense!

Why in the world would you expect the farmer to pay transportation and handling for a product that will not sell?

Now, if you convince the consumer to buy the imperfect product, then there might be some sense.

Farmers make no money on unmarketable product, why would you increase their costs?

For the record, I am an Ag Engineer and worked for too many years as a farm manager to let this kind of thinking pass uncorrected.

Take a trip through a packing house of your choice and see whether you have a different viewpoint.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

benway said:


> You say fast food, convenience food, supermarkets, and franchises implying they are bad. Of course you may get some support on a forum of foodies but in America all of those things are widely considered good ideas and the vast majority are happy to use them all.
> 
> Water would be metered if it was more valuable. Its not as if truffles are going to waste. In the end the market often determines that time and money are worth more than efficiency when it comes to things like food and water. As an owner/operator though you know that running a small business in this industry requires fighting for every penny and its in your interest to use all of what you paid for and hold your suppliers honest. Also do the boxes cost more than your chocolates or just the ingredients in them? Because that's not what your customers pay for--they pay for your time and talents.


You're fun!!!

Convienience food. Where do we start?....Howabout school? Ask any U.S teacher over the age of 50, and they will tell you that that the average class now is comprised of almost 50% overweight and obese kids, as compared to only 10% 30years ago. Your Senators allowed themselves to be fooled by a group of lobbyists who "proved" that pizza and french fries are healty and nutritional for the Nation's school hot lunch progam. Virtually every school has soft drink and snack vending machines, machines and a cut of the income provided by the big convienience boys to the schools. Nasty, innit?

Fast food..... Here is an industry that relies on advertising. Not good food, not good service, not nutritional food, it relies on advertising to survive and flourish. It also relies 100% on prepared and processed foods. No skill is required to cook. By sheer volume, ingredients are purchased cheaply, processed centrally, and shipped all over the continent, No independant competitor can match the pricing. The public buys it cheap, the public won't pay for well prepared food, only for what's advertised. Think frozen dog turd partially exposed in a dirty snow bank is disgusting? How about a pre-formed, frozen egg-product "omelette" made in a plant 5000 miles away, nuked a'la minute and jammed on a bun made in a large factory 3000 miles away from you. It's good because it is advertised as good. It is (deleted)-ing disgusting and a total waste of energy in it's transportation and energy used to promote it.

Supermarkets. These are the boys who demand that a tomato look good. It can taste like crap,but it has to look good. Same with apples. Money talks and growers respond. Produce is grown to look good and taste like crap. Buyers want it cheap and buy in large volume, local smaller growers can not meet prices or quantities demanded by the chains, they are locked out and die off. Produce is monopolized by the big boys. They can, and do, whatever they want to in their industry, lobbying is only one tool they use.

Meat. Who do you think controls the price of beef? Mall*Wart. don't believe me, do you? Mallwart wants it cheap and suppliers--the big boys like Cargill have to jump. Small producers can't raise beef as cheaply as big lots can. Smaller packing houses can't operate as effeciently as mega-packing houses can. So what? For one, mass produced beef tastes like crap, two,animals are treated like crap, three, smaller producers get squeezed out, and four, the market is monopolized by the big boys.

If you think about accidents, they happen in mega-packing houses. One item, like grnd beef or luncheon meat, or carrot juice, is produced on one line in a factory and shipped al over the country. People are poisoned, inspite of health controls. I'm not saying accidents don't happen in smaller plants, but the consequences are not as far reaching or disasterous.

All I'm saying is this:

Broaden your knowledge about food and how it's grown, made, sold, and consumed.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Foodpump,

The last word sums it up; "consumed"!

If it is not consumed, it is never purchased. If it is never purchased, it is never sold. If it won't sell, it will not be:

Produced
Harvested
Graded
Processed
Transported
I guarantee that if the consumers of whatever product refuse to buy it, changes *will* take place.

Can you imagine what would happen if no one ate fast food for one week?

Can you imagine what would happen if no one bought tomatoes that were not locally grown?


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

PeteMcCracken said:


> Foodpump,
> 
> The last word sums it up; "consumed"!
> 
> ...


It's frightening how much power a consumer has yet does not use. I love the concept of "vote with your dollars"

The unfortunate fact is that bad food is cheap and easy to find, good food is expensive and hard to find. Unless good food becomes a little cheaper I'm afraid this country is nutritionally doomed. McDonalds isn't going to stop their advertising.

Oh did you hear? Burger King now delivers. Bad food, cheap, and now you don't even have to move your butt out of the chair to get it. Ordering pizza tonight? Do it online, you don't even have to dial a number anymore. How can fresh food compete with that?


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## benway (May 24, 2009)

foodpump said:


> All I'm saying is this:
> 
> Broaden your knowledge about food and how it's grown, made, sold, and consumed.


Watch a few Netflix documentaries and you're an expert apparently. Like it or not double arches and friends are the most successful restaurant in the world. You can honestly say you think it's only because of advertising? You think that lowly of the public? That they'll shuffle like zombies anywhere that pays for a TV ad? Its a vertically integrated monster, but get over yourself and I think you'll find that they secretly do a lot of things well. As for supermarkets, they sell what sells. Yes they offer out-of-season produce, I personally have no use for it but I fail to see how offering more choices is a fundamental flaw with the food distribution system as the in-season stuff is still available. Thank your stars that not everyone is a classically trained cook who is familiar with seasonal cooking. If they were our skills become a lot less marketable.

All I'm saying is this:

Maybe this system you detest isn't about stupid people but rather a matter of money. Valuable stuff to know when working in the *business* of food.


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## foodnfoto (Jan 1, 2001)

Benway-

While I agree with most of your post, my question is this-

Is your derision such a point of pride that you have to put down others' views?


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Sorry dude, I don't do netfix or whatever, haven''t watched tv for the last, oh..ten years now.

Yes, I think the public is that stupid, just ask Visa/MC

Perhaps I should research how much in % of gross sales the chains and franchises put into advertising. Maybe Coke too.  Kelloggs I know is over 40%

Oh,and btw,  BK and KFC as well as Pizza hut had delivery via 50 cc motorcycles in Singapore since the late 90's.


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

McDonalds makes their money from real estate. It's not about the food at all.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Ah what a first post.  This thread is full of frank opinions, and sometimes the words we choose can make a difference in how our opinions are viewed.  Everyone please take a deep breath and remember I am entrusted with great power on this forum.  That includes the smite button.  No, I won't smite you, but let this serve as a reminder that this thread is not heading in the proper direction.

Thank you.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)




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## mrmexico25 (Jan 7, 2012)

kuan, as the OP, I would be very disapointed if this post were deleted just because of strong opinions.  It's a serious topic, and even though some people dont want to take it seriously, it's naturally going to evoke some strong emotions - which in my opinion is good for the forum. 

There's a lot of constructive input being added, a lot of stuff I've already started practicing.  So just because there has been a lot of pointless arguing, there has been plenty of beneficial stuff too.


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## mrmexico25 (Jan 7, 2012)

I will say, in regards to the topic, I am VERY disappointed in the Food Network in not running a series, or multitude of episodes.  It's a shame their focus only lasted for a one episode special :\


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

ditto....I'd love to see how different cities work through their food waste issues.  Or how different community's environmental programs function.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

mrmexico25 said:


> kuan, as the OP, I would be very disapointed if this post were deleted just because of strong opinions. It's a serious topic, and even though some people dont want to take it seriously, it's naturally going to evoke some strong emotions - which in my opinion is good for the forum.
> 
> There's a lot of constructive input being added, a lot of stuff I've already started practicing. So just because there has been a lot of pointless arguing, there has been plenty of beneficial stuff too.


I wouldn't do that. I'd just remove the people who cannot seem to rise above the noise.


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## nonfoodie (Jan 26, 2012)

You know, I definitely thought I had put my comment in the least offensive way I could think of. Therefore, I think my comment was deleted because it expressed viewpoints that are not necessarily in line with those of the authority here.

Mr. Mod, please delete my account with this website, if you could. I doubt I will ever return here since I can't contribute "useful" things from my perspective. Bye bye.


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## rainy day (Jan 10, 2012)

I must agree with MrMex. people's passion for change must be served raw to get the full flavor. Still it would not hurt to garnish with a little etiquette when counteracting to a fellow foodie's opinion.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)




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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Nonfoodie said:


> You know, I definitely thought I had put my comment in the least offensive way I could think of. Therefore, I think my comment was deleted because it expressed viewpoints that are not necessarily in line with those of the authority here.
> 
> Mr. Mod, please delete my account with this website, if you could. I doubt I will ever return here since I can't contribute "useful" things from my perspective. Bye bye.


If you walked into a party where you didn't know anyone and right off the bat started insulting everyone by calling them stupid then I would expect the host to intervene. The door is always open for discussion and debate but manners are expected.


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## foodnfoto (Jan 1, 2001)

Bravo Koukou

Well said.


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

Or, as we Scots would say 'Dinnae let the door hit your bum oan the way oot'!


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## mrmexico25 (Jan 7, 2012)

iceman, i really liked that video. And I thought hydroponics were strictly used for, ya know.... that other plant...heheh


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

_LOL *Mr.Mexico*._ It's _*AG*_ my friend.

As for that _"other plant"_ ... the trick there is proper _"gender"_ planting. I'm serious here too. You need four(4) _female_ plants and one(1) _male_ plant. You plant them in a four(4)" square box two(2)" deep, evenly spaced, in the arrangement like a 5-pip on a dice, male plant in the middle. Proper watering and proper lighting is important. Not too much water. You can use an additive such as _"Shultz's"_, just go lightly. Proper light should follow the general times on-off as you would find in a place like Arizona. Improper lighting will screw things up.


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## mrmexico25 (Jan 7, 2012)

lol, I wonder if pot growing tips are appreciated on this forum?  hahahaha awesome...


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

_*OH!?!*_ I thought you were talking about _oregano_.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Ishbel said:


> Or, as we Scots would say 'Dinnae let the door hit your bum oan the way oot'!


That's it, from now on every post you make MUST be spelled out in a Scottish accent.


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## reverendfoodie (Jan 10, 2012)

PeteMcCracken said:


> This makes absolutely no sense!
> 
> Why in the world would you expect the farmer to pay transportation and handling for a product that will not sell?
> 
> ...


Pete , I understand your point about farmers paying transportation cost, and it is going to take convincing consumers to buy flavor over looks, which I have stated in an earlier post, and when it come to shipping fruit and veggies grown in California and shipping it to Chicago that would bankrupt them in no time, but regionally grown products going to local farmers markets then they will save some of their product from the land fill and bring in money that they would not have made otherwise, where I live in Tennessee the are a lot of farmers markets, of course this is by no means a complete solution but only a step in the right direction, to truly eliminate the problem of food waste it's going to take a complete change of national attitude, plan and simple it's going to take a whole lot of change at a whole lot of levels


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## mrmexico25 (Jan 7, 2012)

bahahahahahahahhahahaaha!!!!!!!!!!!  whoops!


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## kaneohegirlinaz (Apr 24, 2011)

I watched the show, finally (had it on DVR) and I was just taken aback!

I have become very aware of what I am doing now with our food stuffs.

I went to the Megamart today and found that the prepackaged veggies had expired 3 days ago, and still on the shelf.

Would it be appropriate to ask the manager to reduce the price for me rather than throw it out?

You should have seen what they were about to throw out!

A HUGE garbage can of produce that looked okay to me if you were going to eat it right away.


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## bigolddog (Sep 5, 2011)

What’s really amazing is the serious garbage put out by Hollywood these days and so many still watch this crap. Talk about waste!!! Clearly our notorious education system is still hard at work to dumb down our society.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

kaneohegirlinaz said:


> I watched the show, finally (had it on DVR) and I was just taken aback!
> 
> I have become very aware of what I am doing now with our food stuffs.
> 
> ...


Yes that is appropriate! You'd be surprised that if you ask for anything nicely enough you'll usually end up getting it.


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## foodnfoto (Jan 1, 2001)

> What's really amazing is the serious garbage put out by Hollywood these days and so many still watch this crap. Talk about waste!!! Clearly our notorious education system is still hard at work to dumb down our society.


How, exactly, do you equate Hollywood with the public education system?


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## kaneohegirlinaz (Apr 24, 2011)

Okay, I challenge everyone!

 I took my Mother grocery shopping today, and we went to a quite large, higher end grocery store that is found across the country.  We found packed Persian Cucumbers that had expired 3 days ago.  I looked for  the store manager and pointed this out; asking for a drastic discount, we paid barely nothing!  At first my Mom was, "No don't do that", and I said no, I knew that she would eat them within a few days.    

I challenge you, search out the food stuffs that you know darn well are about to be thrown out and purchase or haggle the store manager for and feed to your family.  I did it, and I'll do it again!


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## bobbythehomecoo (Jan 31, 2012)

Too funny, so called "professionals" saying they are not impressed by what they can learn on the food network!  I am a computer consultant and I am insulted by the quality of computer education garbage put out by the video professor on late night TV! Ba ha ha ha. I thin FN does a nice job mixing in entertainment and some educational value with their shows. I have learned a thing or two , but I do not profess to be able to keep up with a culinary schoold graduate either. I think the big was was valueable information presented in an entertaining way. I would not have enjoyed a NOVA episode on the same topic as much. I was not aware that farms thow out up to half of what they produce. I guess that partly explains why flavorless, gassed green tomatoes cost $3.29 per pound in the market. I don;t think they were saying there is a high profit business opportunity selling a menu made up of discarded seconds. If you think that was the point, you should stick to Jersey Shore that has no point except exactly what you see, pointless drinking a sleeping around.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

_*LOL. *_


> _... so called *"professionals" *..._


That's funny.


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## bigolddog (Sep 5, 2011)

"How, exactly, do you equate Hollywood with the public education system?"

foodnfoto, our education system continues to grow our society's lowest common denominator faster as a percentage than any other segment. Hollywood goes after the lowest common denominator more and more because that's where the audience is growing. Simplicity entertains simplicity.

I'm not trying to degrade; it's just being honest and a frustration how even cooking shows these days cater to the LCD.

For example, when Kitchen Nightmares first came out, it was interesting. As an entrepreneur myself and a love for cooking, a celebrity chef going into a struggling restaurant to see if he could turn it around was a hit for me.

Now the show is more about screaming, yelling, foul language, picking arguments and degrading the restaurant owners on camera. I'm sure that shift to the LCD has given them higher ratings but I don't watch it anymore and it emphasizes my point.


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