# Am I being unrealistic



## smitties009 (Aug 25, 2016)

Hi everyone,

to cut a long story short, Im a head chef and do private catering. I am coming into my 6 th season. Food is very high end. I have had a young assistant chef along side of me for the past 9months. I now have a manager whose knowledge of food is very limited, she is pushing me to get this guy to cook my breakfast dishes, I take pride in what I do but I'm struggling to let go, and it hurts big time to see my dishes being done looking NOT how they are meant to be and some of the cooked components aren't being executed good enough & he forgets components. I feel like I'm being pushed out, I've worked so hard to get where I am. This manager and young guy know each other outside of work. I critic she undermines me in front of him, then says I need to make dishes simpler. I'm not liking my job anymore and would leave if I could. I'm the only income earner until my husband has his operation. 

Is this a common thing for other chefs, what would you do? Am I being unreasonable? Should I suck it up and let him dish up food that's motto my standard. Are my expectations and standards too high. 

I would love you're feed back. 

Cheers


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## nicko (Oct 5, 2001)

Part of being a chef is knowing how to delegate responsibility. If you don't do this you will never make it and burn yourself out. The other part of being a great chef is being a teacher and a mentor. Here is my advice based on my experience focus on your job and your food not on these two. If you expend too much energy focusing on these two you will be miserable. Come up with a plan to train this cook and work with him each day. Also be realistic about your dishes don't be afraid to take some constructive criticism? For example how many covers are you handling for breakfast? Are your dishes something your current staff can handle? If they aren't then you need to pair it down and commit to training them to handle more involved preparations. Make it a goal to the menu you where you want. You may not have the staff trained yet to execute what you want. 
I can't stress enough that as a chef if you don't delegate and let others handle the load you will not make it. Hope that helps.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

All of the above, but never forget that if you feel like your manager is trying to push you out it very well could be true. We've all experienced that, at least I have. Not all managers are good at managing and some come in to a new organization not understtanding the history and past values. Some do not care either. Some are insecure, or maybe even jealous, and it is sometimes expressed in passive-aggressive or aggressive behaviors. some want to form the organization "in their vision" even though there's nothing broken with the stays quo. Do some soul searching to understand your managements values, needs, and desires. Then either adapt or consider alternatives like moving on. I know your problem and it's not unique to the culinary world. I'm living that nightmare too at the moment.

And be very careful about what you say to your assistant... that's a direct line to the manager. Always say nice and positive things!


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

About your "complicated" dishes.
Are your recipes going way over SOP food costs?
If not and the clients are reordering it would be foolhardy to change those... maybe moving forward you could bend a bit to her request.
In other words choose your battles wisely... like @nicko pointed out micromanaging every little detail can be wearying and is a proven cause of burnout.

mimi


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

The reason why I became a Chef is because I couldn't find anyone else to do things the way I wanted them done. In most cases this happened in private clubs. I would be the Manager/Chef sell the banquets, cook the food, meet and greet the guests and walk the dining room. Needless to say, I had a hard time giving up my baby to free myself up when the business grew. In your case your also having a hard time letting go. that being said in most cases it's hard to find people who can do things exactly the way we do it. After 9 months this person should be able to accomplish your method of cooking. You said it was high end. There is no simple short cuts in High end. It takes care and concern with ingredients and presentation at all times. Your not being unreasonable, it's your Baby and you want things done right.......Good luck.......Best wishes to your husband for a fast recovery......ChefBillyB


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

I think you should be able to let go of this little bit. Choose your battles. Are there other opportunities that open up if you move this person to breakfast? Can you move another more motivated person to banquets, someone who is willing to learn and take charge?


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## smitties009 (Aug 25, 2016)

Thanks everyone, our guests pay $140.00for a continental and cooked breakfast. We have exclusive luxury residences. 

It's really hard seeing my dishes I've created not the same as I would like it and I feel it's my reputation. So I should really just turn a blind eye, and leave him to it is what I'm hearing. Appreciate all advice given.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Perhaps you are being overly protective since it is your baby. Get unbiased second opinions from guests (where they don't know who was cooking on those shifts) on food you produce and food your assistant produces.

Either way, it will be a positive. If you are shown to be overly protective, then maybe it will be a little easier for you to let go and delegate. If it turns out that there is a distinct difference, you now have evidence to back you up on future decisions.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

One thing you can do is work with, and not dictate, and very important, spec out together all the items that go on the breakfast menu. You do this for a lot of things, the most wonderful to your employer's eyes will be cost savings. Employees love ownership and you can let go of it a bit and work together. It's work but it's worth it.


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## cronker (Mar 3, 2016)

$140.00 for breakfast? Oh my.
I can understand your concerns at that price point.
I was going to say that breakfast is generally a loss leader, because generally you don't have the opportunity to sell alcohol into the shift.
I think a good idea would be to bring your breakfast chef into the menu planning and engage them into the entire operation of the breakfast shift. Make them take entire responsibility for the offering, cost and bottom line. This frees you up to concentrate on the more profitable areas of your business, although I now think that $140 for breakfast couldn't possibly be a loss leader, so...


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## smitties009 (Aug 25, 2016)

cronker said:


> $140.00 for breakfast? Oh my.
> I can understand your concerns at that price point.
> I was going to say that breakfast is generally a loss leader, because generally you don't have the opportunity to sell alcohol into the shift.
> I think a good idea would be to bring your breakfast chef into the menu planning and engage them into the entire operation of the breakfast shift. Make them take entire responsibility for the offering, cost and bottom line. This frees you up to concentrate on the more profitable areas of your business, although I now think that $140 for breakfast couldn't possibly be a loss leader, so...


Yeah it's a lot of money, but people pay for this as it's all organic farm to table meals. This young chef I associate with a robot hard and fast no finesse or creativity. I would prefer him to design his own dishes and then he can take full responsibility.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

That's breakfast? Holy Moly!


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

smitties009 said:


> I would prefer him to design his own dishes and then he can take full responsibility.


You are the chef, he should take ownership of his work, but the full responsibility is yours.


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## smitties009 (Aug 25, 2016)

cheflayne said:


> You are the chef, he should take ownership of his work, but the full responsibility is yours.


How do I do you mean. I tell him it's not good enough manager tells him it's lovely???


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## smitties009 (Aug 25, 2016)

kuan said:


> That's breakfast? Holy Moly!


The same breakfast in both pics which would you prefer?


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Is the manager your boss or is she strictly the manager of the FOH?

Either way I would talk directly with her, keeping it as non-confrontational as possible, just making casual conversation. Explain that you are both working towards the same goals and how important it that you both are on the same page and support each other in your efforts at achieving the common goals.


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## cronker (Mar 3, 2016)

Put it this way-
If I were the manager in any venue that could get away with charging $140 for breakfast, i would not be putting my two cents worth of opinion into the kitchen.
Tell her, discreetly, that you are concerned about the quality of the breakfast offering, and gild the lily a bit by saying you have seen better offerings for far far cheaper around town.
Sorry, I'm still trying to get my head around that price. We get complaints about our $32 buffet breakfast which has the most beautiful, amazing product that every other hotel on our CONTINENT try to emulate!


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

Something's not computing here...

You are the head chef? Why does the FoH manager have any say in what goes on in the kitchen? Is she your boss? I don't understand. 

You have every right to expect your cooks to execute your food how you want it executed. That is what being a chef is all about. 

If the cook isn't willing or able to execute your vision, just let them go. Find someone better able to do the food you want to do. Why does the FoH manager have any say in who does what, when and why in your kitchen? Someone undermining you in front of the employee is 100% unacceptable...how is this happening? Why haven't you put a stop to it? 

Who's the boss?


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## smitties009 (Aug 25, 2016)

someday said:


> Something's not computing here...
> 
> You are the head chef? Why does the FoH manager have any say in what goes on in the kitchen? Is she your boss? I don't understand.
> 
> ...


I'm the head chef and she is the guest service manager.


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## smitties009 (Aug 25, 2016)

I do need to put a stop to it yes.


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## cronker (Mar 3, 2016)

I agree, Someday.
I'm a quality FOH manager and I have worked some very high end venues, but I would never think to direct the kitchen. I will admit that I offer suggestions as to what the guests are intimating to me, but final decisions are always made by chef.
The conversation between front and back of house during service is often very much like a foreign language to anyone outside the industry - ("Are we firing on 4?" "Can I get ETA on 12?" "Mains away please on 31!")
There are times when I, as FOH manager will put my foot down and simply refuse to send out a dish because it's not up to standard, and I'm willing to catch the knife thrown at me. But no FOH manager should be dictating the standards unless these have been written in stone by the chef.
The only time I refuse to serve a dish on the pass is when I know chef wouldn't allow it and would probably beat me senseless if I let it go out. Chef has that power - no one else.


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## cronker (Mar 3, 2016)

I also think that having photos of every dish with recipes and method plastered all over the walls is a great help to junior staff. You're saying "this is the expectation, every single time!"
One of the major reasons you get return guests and regulars is that they can be confident on receiving a consistent product on each visit.
If my scrambled eggs are perfect one time, runny the next and rubbery the final time, I'm not coming back. Lack of any consistency is one of the biggest killers in the industry.


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## cronker (Mar 3, 2016)

smitties009 said:


> I'm the head chef and she is the guest service manager.


I love that. "Guest Service Manager". She is FOH Manager. I've been titled "Event and Functions Manager" and "Experience Manager", lol.
I'm just a FOH manager, FFS.


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## smitties009 (Aug 25, 2016)

cronker said:


> I love that. "Guest Service Manager". She is FOH Manager. I've been titled "Event and Functions Manager" and "Experience Manager", lol.
> I'm just a FOH manager, FFS.


Yeah she is my manager....


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## smitties009 (Aug 25, 2016)

cronker said:


> I also think that having photos of every dish with recipes and method plastered all over the walls is a great help to junior staff. You're saying "this is the expectation, every single time!"
> One of the major reasons you get return guests and regulars is that they can be confident on receiving a consistent product on each visit.
> If my scrambled eggs are perfect one time, runny the next and rubbery the final time, I'm not coming back. Lack of any consistency is one of the biggest killers in the industry.


I was told to give him two weeks training where he does some breakfast dishes for other workers as if they were guests. Food wasn't to my standards but they couldn't fault it, and yet showed them what it should be. Aaarrrgggghhhh I'm over it, feel like I'm losing the battle .....


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

smitties009 said:


> The same breakfast in both pics which would you prefer?


Number one....hands down the more attractive.
Whoever did the other could use a couple of lessons on using the plate as a canvas not just something to hold some food until it can be shoveled into the pie hole.

mimi


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

Don't worry about the cheap $140 Breakfast, worry about the $260 lunch and the $440 dinner......Where the Hell does someone pay $140 for breakfast.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Guest service manager? That's... hmm. Does she have PNL accountability?

I would still, work cooperatively to allow your breakfast cook to take ownership of the items on the menu.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Channeling @panini ..."This may just be me...but" after 9 months I would think this young chef would have already been brought up to speed and be able to mimic your dishes and plating SOP's.
Maybe he/she is frustrated by the lack of one on one instruction and opportunity to grow and has asked the new boss to drop a dime and see if it helps.
Just 'sayin'

mimi


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Guest service manager was a new term to me, so I researched it and in old school terms it translates to general manager. 

Took this from an industry website "Guest services managers must work to ensure that the business earns a profit and that it does so without sacrificing the quality service essential to build a reputation that brings past customers back and also attracts new customers based on reputation."

I would have a talk with the GM pointing in this direction saying that you are on-board with this line of thinking and that you are more than willing and doing everything within your power towards achieving that mission. Express your concerns that having your assistant handle breakfast is possibly detrimental to the team's efforts of realizing the common goal. 

Ball is now in GM's court. Use the clues in her response to assess your direction and future actions.

I have been in the industry for a few decades and have yet to find a boss that sees things exactly as I do and that includes over a decade as an owner. Even when I was an owner, I wasn't the boss, that title fell to the people in the dining room who were paying to partake of my "vision". 

My vision wasn't completely in sync with the guests vision and so I had to make adjustments and fine tune (not compromise nor sacrifice) my vision. If I hadn't been willing to do that the boss would have decided for me and I would have been out in the streets in no time. The choice was mine.


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## smitties009 (Aug 25, 2016)

flipflopgirl said:


> Channeling @panini ..."This may just be me...but" after 9 months I would think this young chef would have already been brought up to speed and be able to mimic your dishes and plating SOP's.
> Maybe he/she is frustrated by the lack of one on one instruction and opportunity to grow and has asked the new boss to drop a dime and see if it helps.
> Just 'sayin'
> 
> mimi


I have trained him religiously for 9 months, he gets me but it's just a job and not a passion......


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## smitties009 (Aug 25, 2016)

cheflayne said:


> Guest service manager was a new term to me, so I researched it and in old school terms it translates to general manager.
> 
> Took this from an industry website "Guest services managers must work to ensure that the business earns a profit and that it does so without sacrificing the quality service essential to build a reputation that brings past customers back and also attracts new customers based on reputation."
> 
> ...


I appreciate you're feed back. You have all given me a lot to think about and move forward with. I never saw this coming the fact that it's totally upset me, maybe I need to treat it as a job, I wouldn't have to go through the emotional roller coaster. Thanks again....


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## Jimin77tujuh (Aug 21, 2017)

smitties009 said:


> Yeah it's a lot of money, but people pay for this as it's all organic farm to table meals. This young chef I associate with a robot hard and fast no finesse or creativity. I would prefer him to design his own dishes and then he can take full responsibility.


Cool


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## dectra (Nov 2, 2016)

smitties009 said:


> I'm the head chef and she is the guest service manager.


Two points.

First, a clear delineation of responsibilities is in order. YOU as the HC are in charge of how the plates go out. If the folks under you can't or won't do it up to spec, they're not the right folks for that level of operation ($140.00). I've had dishes tossed back at me for being poorly prepared, and I was chagrined into admitting I'd [email protected]#$ked up. Pride of workmanship is important. If your guy doesn't have it, train him. If he won't learn....(?).

Secondly, a sit down with the powers that run things; resulting in (ideally) an understanding of WHO runs the Kitchen. You, or her? If she's contributing to a good product, as part of the team, wonderful. If she's staking out ground to buttress her clout? That needs to be addressed, toot sweet.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

It's not $140 per person surely?


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## cronker (Mar 3, 2016)

Because chef and I are on the same page, it's not unheard of for me to reject a plate if I feel it's not up to standard. Chef's eyes can't be everywhere and I'm normally the one on the pass.
Ultimately, it's my FOH staff or myself who bears the brunt of a disgruntled guest, but a non-returning guest hurts us all. But not supporting your decisions in front of other staff is not acceptable in any way, and I would be having "a chat" (might involve a sandwich press and a hand)
An ambitious FOH manager is a great thing to have, but you are in charge of the kitchen- end of.


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## Chef718 (Aug 22, 2017)

smitties009 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> to cut a long story short, Im a head chef and do private catering. I am coming into my 6 th season. Food is very high end. I have had a young assistant chef along side of me for the past 9months. I now have a manager whose knowledge of food is very limited, she is pushing me to get this guy to cook my breakfast dishes, I take pride in what I do but I'm struggling to let go, and it hurts big time to see my dishes being done looking NOT how they are meant to be and some of the cooked components aren't being executed good enough & he forgets components. I feel like I'm being pushed out, I've worked so hard to get where I am. This manager and young guy know each other outside of work. I critic she undermines me in front of him, then says I need to make dishes simpler. I'm not liking my job anymore and would leave if I could. I'm the only income earner until my husband has his operation.
> 
> ...





smitties009 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> to cut a long story short, Im a head chef and do private catering. I am coming into my 6 th season. Food is very high end. I have had a young assistant chef along side of me for the past 9months. I now have a manager whose knowledge of food is very limited, she is pushing me to get this guy to cook my breakfast dishes, I take pride in what I do but I'm struggling to let go, and it hurts big time to see my dishes being done looking NOT how they are meant to be and some of the cooked components aren't being executed good enough & he forgets components. I feel like I'm being pushed out, I've worked so hard to get where I am. This manager and young guy know each other outside of work. I critic she undermines me in front of him, then says I need to make dishes simpler. I'm not liking my job anymore and would leave if I could. I'm the only income earner until my husband has his operation.
> 
> ...


I know how you feel" but you are running a business,
and you need to treat it as such if you own it I understand" but if you don't again treat it as such.
go over the plan with your GM and the GS manager together and what the GS manager wants you to do" your GM may not want that" but if the GM thinks its a great idea then what you need to do is create an action plan for the cook and to CYA you will have to create an SOP for the cook from opening breakfast, operating, and closing of breakfast, go over it with him or her let them fully understand what your expectations are" they will sign it" and put it in their file now give them the proper training about 2 weeks" now after the training they will sign an SOP stating that they received the proper training that goes into their file, now they are on their own,
every time you get a guest complaint or when there is an issue with cooking start the documentation process have your GM sign it and it goes into their file and so on..

Now devils advocate"
you have to be able to pull away and delegate.. if the business is growing there are other things that you will need to do for the business to be successful" work with you GS manager and see what is their vision is for the business get together with the GM and come up with an action plan for yourself do not close yourself out that is not a good thing, the GS manager was hired for a reason train the staff properly because they are a reflection of you and the most important part that makes a business successful is TEAM work hope this helps


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## Chef Stephen (Aug 23, 2017)

smitties009 said:


> Thanks everyone, our guests pay $140.00for a continental and cooked breakfast.


Golly! Even the top-end caviar breakfast at the Ritz only costs £185.00.


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## Chef Stephen (Aug 23, 2017)

cronker said:


> I also think that having photos of every dish with recipes and method plastered all over the walls is a great help to junior staff.


Too McDo!

And if the menu changes daily?


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

No, its not. Photos are one of the best tools to keep plating consistent. It shouldn't cost more than a few cents and two minutes to snap a pic, email it to the office computer and print it out.


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## maryestuart (Aug 24, 2017)

$140, just wow! I surely understand your concerns at that price point.


cronker said:


> $140.00 for breakfast? Oh my.
> I can understand your concerns at that price point.
> I was going to say that breakfast is generally a loss leader, because generally you don't have the opportunity to sell alcohol into the shift.
> I think a good idea would be to bring your breakfast chef into the menu planning and engage them into the entire operation of the breakfast shift. Make them take entire responsibility for the offering, cost and bottom line. This frees you up to concentrate on the more profitable areas of your business, although I now think that $140 for breakfast couldn't possibly be a loss leader, so...


I know right? At $140 for a BREAKFAST it's totally reasonable that they're concerned about the consistency of the food quality.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Who cares what the price of the meal? The consistency of the food quality should remain at the pre-determined level whether I am paying $140 or $3.75. I expect to receive the same thing every time I return to an establishment and plunk down my cash for a meal. To me that is reasonable.


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## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

I believe in delegation, training, and letting younger cooks grow. Guess I learned old school only working in fine dining not corporate restaurants. A kitchen is not a democracy. There is only one captain to steer a ship, bottom line. As a head chef its your call and your reputation. When things are great its a team (FOH and BOH) that made it, if something goes bad its going to be all your fault. Anytime I have ever had a situation it was because I listened to other people instead of trusting myself and my dishes. I'm open to ideas and constructive criticisms. But always tell young cocky chefs the same thing, "In 15 years of busting your ass for 80 hours a week you earned the right to cook how you want, whether you think its right or wrong, I don't care. When you become a boss how would you feel about someone questioning you"? Cooking is something personal


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## cronker (Mar 3, 2016)

Necro-threading here, but just wanted to ask "what happened?"


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

cronker said:


> Necro-threading here, but just wanted to ask "what happened?"


Me too...

mimi


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