# Dressing stones



## chrismit (Nov 18, 2012)

Brand new sharpener here and I have a couple quick questions. I am expecting any day now the 3 stone beginner set for cktg, beston 500, bester 1.2k and rika 5k I understand how to flatten the stones but can someone explain dressing the stones to me? Do the stones need to be dressed before each use? Oh, I also am getting the $30 diamond flattening plate. Thanks


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Just to add to your knowledge visit *here*.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

The 500 doesn't need to be dressed; the 1.2K doesn't need dressing either, but you might as well; and the 5K does need dressing every time it's flattened.

To dress, after flattening, rub the 500 against the 1.2K until the 1.2K starts to generate a little mud.  Then rub the 500 against the 5K a couple of times, switch to the 1.2K and keep at it until it starts to generate mud. 

There's a widespread belief that a scuffed-up surface can scratch a knife.  Not so.  I suppose it's barely possible that a messed up surface might catch a knife tip and in that way hurt a knife but otherwise, no way. 

Waterstones continually release fresh abrasive and binder from the surface of the stone, which creates a slurry (called "mud") on top of the stone.  It's the abrasives in the slurry which do the sharpening, not the stone.
By their nature, the water stone binders are much softer than the knife, so scuffed binder won't hurt your knife.  And since water stone abrasives are continually replaced by fresh abrasive during the sharpening process -- their hardness and cutting ability is more or less constant.   

A dressed stone is stronger and will last longer than a stone with a scratched up surface; and a flat surface is somewhat more efficient; but the thing to understand about "dressing," is that getting rid of the coarse scratch left by the flattener is not as important as getting the mud going. 

In these respects your water stones have NOTHING in common with Koko's oil stones. 

BDL


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Oil is a totally different feel and perhaps a bit more delicate from water stones.  Either way, once you learn the feel of either kind of petro, it's all good once you get used to either solvent.


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Whatever feels good to your hands and THAT takes some practice.

Best,

TK, D. C.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

> Oil is a totally different feel and perhaps a bit more delicate from water stones. Either way, once you learn the feel of either kind of petro, it's all good once you get used to either solvent.


Koko,

With respect, the difference between oil stones and the sort of synthetic water stones the OP has is not the "solvent." The stones work on completely different principles. I.e., water stone binders are soluble while oil stone substrates are not.

BDL


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## chrismit (Nov 18, 2012)

Bdl, once I rub the 5k and switch back to the 1.2k do I keep going on this one until it generates mud, sharpen on the 1.2k and then rub the 5k with the 500 until it generates mud?


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

No.

Before embarking on flattening, all your stones should be well moistened.  Regarding your specific set, the Beston and Bester should have soaked for at least an hour before flattening.  The Rika's ready a lot quicker -- 15min IIRC.

Flatten whichever stones need to be flattened. 

The 500 will not need any more dressing.

Dress the 1.2K by rubbing it against the 500K.  This will have the effect of smoothing out the stone and generating a little mud.  Neither thing, strictly speaking, is necessary with any medium-coarse stone, especially the Bester 1.2K; but it's going to shorten the process by a minute or two and helps keep things methodical -- so, why not?

Then, either rub the 5K against the 500 with a few, quick rubs to get rid of the worst scratch (again, not really necessary; but consistent, good habits rock), or take the 5K straight to the 1.2K.  If you skip the 500, it will take a little bit longer to dress the 5K, but no big deal either way.  

Once you've generated a little mud on the 5K with the 1.2K all three stones are good to go.  No more rubbing or rinsing is necessary.   

Remember to reserve the 500 for repair and profiling only.  It's a very fast stone and can cause trouble; don't go poking sticks at it if you don't need to. 

That means:  You won't need to flatten the 500 as often as you do the 1.2K and 500. 

Which means in turn:  If you don't flatten the 500, but do flatten the 1.2K, don't bother dressing the 1.2K with the 500.  Rub the 1.2K and 5K together until you get some mud going, and voila!

In my experience, dressing sharpening stone with other sharpening stones is better than dressing them with a nagura.  

Finally, when you're rubbing stone against stone, keep them moving.  If you stop, like any pair of wet, smooth surfaces, they can form a strong, low-pressure seal which is nearly impossible to separate.  For that reason, I tend to hold them at right angles to one another.  At worst, if they bond, the seal can be broken by torquing the stones.    

BDL


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## chrismit (Nov 18, 2012)

Thanks BDL, that makes total sense. I just got the stones today along with the new artifex wa gyuoto. Not sure if I will be able to explain this well enough or not but here it goes. The right side of the knife has what I would consider a normal size section behind the edge (second bevel?) which is highly polished. The left side of the knife had a minimal section behind the edge, almost not noticeable. Is this asymmetric sharpening? This is the knife I'm planning to learn to sharpen on. Anything special I need to know about it?


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

No good news.

It's asymmetric sharpening, but _unintended asymmetric sharpening_. Artifex are supposed to be 50/50. If I had to guess, your knife was set down half sharpened at Lamson last thing on one day, and picked up and packed first thing the next. You should certainly call CKtG to let them know. 

The issue then becomes: What are you going to do about it? If it happened to me, I'd fix it myself. Heck, I was going to sharpen it immediately anyway. That's not necessarily the best option for you. 

On the one hand, the skills necessary to shape a knife to (more or less) whatever edge profile you want, come fairly early on the sharpening curve. On the other hand, they're basic but not noob. They're "coarse stone" skills; and if you're not at that stage you might want a knife which doesn't represent so much challenge. If you can't reliably refine a burr, chase a burr, and polish with a fine stone, exchange the knife for one which is per spec. 

If you do exchange, it's probably worth the extra $15 bucks to have a CKtG "in house" sharpener put an edge on it for you. Not only will you have a decent starting point to compare to and "click in" on, but you'll get an extra inspection before the knife's delivered. At least you won't have to go through the same thing twice. 

BDL


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Thanks Ben, nice catch.  I'd missed the "wa-gyuto" in Chris's post.  Good thing one of us reads all the words. 

The stock asymmetry on Fujiwara FKM is -- theoretically -- 70/30 righty.  That means the right side (knife held edge facing down, point facing away from your body) bevel should be about twice as wide as the left side bevel.  However, Fujiwara factory edges and factory asymmetry is usually pretty good -- but it's not Wusthof or MAC consistent.  If you got 80/20 (4:1), or even 90/10 (barely visible left side bevel), that would be less than ideal but it wouldn't be terribly surprising either.

The way to gradually move asymmetry towards neutrality is to always start sharpening on the left side, always draw the first burr on the left side; and to use as few strokes as necessary on the right side to chase the burr (flip it back over).  Even if you don't start with anything coarser than the 1.2K you should see the left side bevel start to grow to reasonable proportions after the second or third sharpening session. 
 

In my experience a ratio of asymmetry of 2:1 (as near as you can estimate it) will get nearly all of the benefits of asymmetry without catching much in the way of its drawbacks.  Speaking of ratios, smile when you see anyone write 70/30.  Who can gauge 7:3 by eye? 

Fujiwara's stock factory edge angle is 15* on each side.

Use the Magic Marker trick, to help you see and compare bevel widths. 

Hold off on the Beston 500 until you can make the Rika sing. 

BDL


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## chrismit (Nov 18, 2012)

Thanks guys, that's pretty much the same response I got from Mark at Cktg. He was great at responding to me promptly. I'm excited to know it's something I'll be able to work on myself. I have to admit I really like the wa handle am and looking forward to learning to sharpen. I'm sure there will be many more questions about sharpening in the future. Thanks for all your help


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