# Drug usage in Restaurants!!!



## alisha (Nov 6, 2007)

*I have noticed that a lot of people where i work talk about drugs or a few will sneak out to their cars when the manager isn't looking. I'm kinda new the the whole restaurant industry but i was really expecting a professional experiance... Is drug usage really that common in the restaurant industry?... all the servers that i have talked to say it is everywhere... I don't mean to offend anyone, I am doing a report for school on this subject. if anyone has any comments or can provide any statistics i would greatly appreciate it... Thank you! :blush:*


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## fng (Oct 30, 2007)

I've only actually seen it a few times but yes, it is very much alive in the restaurant industry. I've watched line cooks do lines of coke right of the prep tables (in an exhibition style kitchen, while we were open!!!) Had this one server ask me to hold something for here while she was digging through her purse. When I realized what it was, it was a huge bag of weed. Another simply left her change purse open on the table after the meeting and it was packed of the sticky stuff. Other than that, there is alot of sex, drinking and drugs going on in most restaraunts.


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## ldzpapa (Mar 11, 2007)

Yes there is, my thought on it is what people do in their free time is up to them, however, the minute it affects their job performance it is time for them to move on. Also, bringing in and doing drugs at work can jeopardize everyone else's jobs and that ain't cool. For more on the topic check out Kitchen Confidential by A. Bourdain.


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## iconoclast (Aug 8, 2007)

any industry that demands a great deal from its participants will have a high rate of drug use... more importantly, an industry which is fast paced, with long hours, also has participants who like to work hard but more importantly party just as hard...


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## fng (Oct 30, 2007)

yeah, Kitchen Confidential is a great book and really goes into depth and accurately most dining establishments. However, it isn't the case in every place but most. 

Some of the content in the book may not be suitable for someone young which is why I didn't suggest it in my earlier post. But Anthony Bourdain is very blunt and truthful.


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## kcz (Dec 14, 2006)

It's a good thing that medicine and law enforcement don't rationalize things like that.


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## chef joh (Oct 30, 2007)

I had a good friend loose his restraunt because of the drug use.Drugs cannot be tolerated in any work place. I dont think I have to elaborate.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

So, the answer to the original question is "Yes, dug use is common." Why rationalize or excuse it, which seems to be what you're doing.

shel


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

For me, no. I've never worked in a kitchen were drugs were used openly. If they were, I'd be outta there fast. I've only canned one banquet waiter for showing up stoned, other than that I've been pretty lucky.

Now, what people do at home or on their time off, I dunno, it ain't my business....


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## risque cakes (Apr 20, 2007)

Ha, before I had my DNA units I was heading into a medical field and a LOT of residents wouldn't be able to do their 30 hour tours unless they had a little help! Thank goodness I got side tracked by having my first child and went into something else. Who know WHAT or how I would've turned out.

I found that drug use was very prevalent in the student body at my school. A lot of the kids would attend the labs High, stoned or buzzed.

A lot of the teachers would look the other way as these where the "HAPPIEST" people in class and actually made class a big giggle..pissing those of us that took our work seriously..

but, since I"m not a mom to ANYbody else's kids but my own, I felt it was up to the Chef Instructor to notice/deal and manage the class.

Most of these participants projects would fail, but because they had great "FAKE" personalities got the best internship offers. Sigh...


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## rivitman (Jul 23, 2004)

If drug testing were mandatory in the restaurant business, with termination for a positive result, probably a fouth to a third would be gone. Including coked up managers and not a few owners.

It's an industry curse that is due to the relative poverty of dishwashers and cooks, and many waitstaff. And let's not forget Alcohol, the other side of the same coin.


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## jim berman (Oct 28, 1999)

I think, if you look around, you will find substance abuse prevelant in every walk of life, every industry, every neighborhood, every school, every family. I am not making blanket generalizations nor am I saying it is acceptable to succumb to the awful crisis that is addiction. I just think that, yes, restaurant workers can be subject to temptations, but so can every other industry. Everybody is under pressure. Everybody has deadlines. Everybody has issues. It is how we deal with those issues that defines your ability to manage life and all that is has to offer. Some do drugs. Some drink to excess. Some go for a jog. Some read a book.


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## nickydafish (Oct 30, 2006)

Just this past week, one of the kitchen managers left for rehab. He has struggled with his addiction for eight years, and he recently relapsed. He took himself out of the work place and into rehab. He told me before he left that management told him to take care of himself and come back when he's healthy. Not to worry about his job. I've only known him for a few months, but I hope he can really beat it this time.


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## greg (Dec 8, 1999)

If you've only seen it a few times, how are you arriving at the conclusion that this happens in "most" restaurants?

I'm not denying that it _does_ happen, but what you're describing is the restaurant industry in the 80s. My guess is that you've been working in all the wrong places.


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## ras1187 (Oct 3, 2006)

I do not have a source, but I have heard that we have the highest drug dependency and alcohol dependency in the labor force.

I cannot speak for all restaurants, but from my personal observations in the places I have worked at, drug use is very common. I have had the (mis)pleasure of disrupting deals that were going on in both the freezer and the bathroom.

No job is perfect, there is always going to be something "unprofessional" about it.


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## iconoclast (Aug 8, 2007)

bc many doctors arent abusing drugs or alcohol... :look:

Medical Boards Let Physicians Practice Despite Drug Abuse (washingtonpost.com)

Doctors doing drugs and drinking: some physicians with substance abuse problems are protected by family and friends Physician Executive - Find Articles

Alcohol and drug abuse among doctors, BMA response to BBC research

Center for Professional Health, Article: Physicians impairment by substance abuse

just a few examples... obviously im not saying everyone in any stressful industry is abusing however its seems to be common in industries which demand a lot from its participants.


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## iconoclast (Aug 8, 2007)

no its not what im doing. i was giving an explaination as to why it may seem drug use is common in this inudstry...


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## rivitman (Jul 23, 2004)

All of this is due to the fact that food establishemnt workers are probably the most economically repressed people in the country next to migrant farm workers. Love for the business or not, to work so long, and so hard, for so little, calls for self medication.

Nobody looks out for cooks, dishwashers, or waitresses. The food industry spends all kinds of money lobbying legislative bodies to keep them bootheled.

And boutique professional groups like the ACF are of no help at all. Certification as a way to lift everybody's boat?
Sorry ACF, that's a pie in the sky talk. That's ego. That's the old-boy club that you really are talking. You can be as back slapping and self congratulatory all you want, but you aren't helping the legion of real human beings you wish to speak for.


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## dangel (Oct 21, 2006)

Agreed. 

Maybe people in the restaurant industry just feel "safer" letting other people know that they are using - maybe they're just more down to earth and honest about lifestyle ... 
The latest statistics that I've seen report that about 10% of the US population admits to ongoing illicit drug use. Any business that I run will not have people working under the influence to whatever extent that I can legally & morally control it.


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## rat (Mar 2, 2006)

As for me I don't care what you do as long as it does not affect me.
If I have to work longer because of your stoned/hungover a#$ I will come down on you with fury. Drugs are everywhere in any stressfull job.
I remember one cook I worked with who would go into the bathroom half asleep and come out like Animal from the muppet show cooking brunch for 300 people by himself. The owner looked the other way and paid him Very well.

I look at it as if it is none of my business. It is not just illegal drugs in the workplace, how many managers take xanax or vallium etc. Pillheads are 10x worst than any pothead.

Me, when I want to get high I go cut my lawn and admire the perfection of arrow straight mower passes, plate that perfect dessert for the end of a perfect meal and the best of all the smell of raw gasoline at the dragstrip when I make a 11 second pass in my vintage GTO at 120 mph. Thats enough for me and it doesn't cost any money. (well the first two don't anyway LOL)


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

I really get upset with this whole drug thing, Bourdain brought it out into the open and now everyone thinks it's the norm. It's not.

You want rampant drug abuse at the worksite? Take a closer look at the construction trades. Every line of work has it's drug abusers. Period.


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## buonaboy (Sep 5, 2007)

In my restaurant, It's fairly professional, (_we don't have a shift drink until 9pm_) . I have a small crew and they're all responsible. We all drink, and I'd say half of my staff smokes pot, but never at work. We're too busy for that. With a small crew If you want to go outside for a smoke break, you've got about 90 seconds to choke down a few drags -because there's no-one to cover your station and we don't have a walk-in , so no lighting up in there - basicly there's no opportunity to smoke pot on the job. I fire ANY servers Who do coke, I've bean around enough drugs -I can spot the signs pretty quick.

I've worked at many places in the past where coke and speed was practicaly expected. In my years at a Hotel (that will remain nameless), ALL the chefs were on coke, every friday night -just when the **** began to hit the fan, they would call the " chefs meeting " in the office. 
At another place, servers got chewed out(by the floor MG) if they didn't leave a line of coke set up for the next server in the eployee bathroom. I'd be lying if i said i didn't partake, but that was 10 years ago and I was in my early 20's. Now I don't even like the slightest buzz if i'm cooking, It makes me feel out of touch with the food, I feel constantly in the weeds. So, Just one glass of wine near the end of the night, and then it's off to a bar close to home.

Must be an age thing,
-ciao
-mike


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

never needed outside stimulants...neurologically enhanced all on my own....but do partake of advil on a regular basis, must be an age thing....or offsite caterers' shlepping thing.

Something also common amoungst kitchen staffs is the amount of dsylexia, ADD, LD etc......a huge % of people weilding knives are tactile learners, who never flourished in school but found a place where they fit....there are some outrageously intelligent people working in kitchens.


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## castironcook (Nov 10, 2007)

agreed....it seems the food service industry does attract all types...that being the highly educated and the person with a smaller one...but both blend well in the creative society we live in....and those outrageously intelligent people are often considered less intelligent by society...(Like we care right?)

as for drugs...they are everywhere and must be done away with...our kitchens harbor boiling water, sharp knives and slippery floors etc...add a drug induced haze and we see lives lost or damaged for good...


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## lana (Oct 8, 2007)

I think it is pretty prevalent in the food industry. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themsleves. Sure, you may have a few establishments that do not have drug using staffs, but I think it is more often than not. 

I say this, though, from MY experience in MY town. May not be the case in YOUR town. Food industry workers are amoung the lowest paid workforce in the country. I have a study somewhere with numbers to back it up. I will try hunt it and post with source.


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## iconoclast (Aug 8, 2007)

if you could find that article i would appreciate it... thanks.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Lana, you just contradicted yourself in that you made the statement that you think it's (drug usage) prevalant in the whole food service industry,and then go on to say that this is based only on your experience in one town. Some of us have worked in this industry for over 20 and 30 years, and not in just one town, but in many countries and even continents Some of us have been present, and therefore responsible, when a high/stoned/drunk employee either injures himself or co-workers, or embarasses a customer. This is when the powers that be come down, the worker's comp board, the labour board people, the lawyers, the owners. Someone has to pay the price and this is usually the manager since the employee in question is long gone. Once a manager has gone through such a mess you can make very sure he/she won't let it happen again. Like I said, and I make it very clear, what the employee does on his time away from the work place is entirely their business.

Food industry pays the lowest wages? Yawn...so what else is new? 

What are you going to pay a 17 yr old with no job history, no experience, and no working skills? Face it the lowest paid people are the ones with little or no working skills or experience, once they aquire these, off they go to bigger and better things. If you want higher wages for the whole industry don't look at the employers, look at the customers, because that's where the money is coming from.


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## oldschool1982 (Jun 27, 2006)

I try to avoid these topics (drug related) yet I have been following this one off and on since it was unlocked. It certainly has been interesting to see what some folks say.

But Foodpump? Very well stated! 
To add something to your point about wages, In the 27yrs I was actively working in the restaurant industry I never once saw nor held a "gun" to anyones head and force them stay at the position or in the industry. Everyone in this industry is there by their own choice!! You want a better life you make the industry work for you or you find a different job!!

And to be totaly honest... those that "use" rarely reach their potential . Note to those that say "oh I work so much better when......" Trust me you're not, you don't and you never will. From the clean (Never used.) and sober (well mostly but always at work. Sober that is.:look side of things, half the time ya'll look and sound like fools and do nothing but make everyone elses job harder.


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## castironcook (Nov 10, 2007)

Well i have to agree with that too...


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## rivitman (Jul 23, 2004)

What's new about it is that wage are not only low but stagnant at best in terms of inflation adjusted wages over the last twenty years.

Food service workers in many cases are earning LESS than previous years in real terms. And there seems no relief from this adverse trend, as the chain stores attempt to take cooking skill out of the equation and relpace it with cookie cutter precision and proceedure, along with pre prepped foods.

This was precisely the case with my last crew. After two ywars of hard work, training, and a solid amount of progress in their skill levels, they recieved wages that didn't really even cover the increases in their bus fares.

Cooks whites are rapidly evolving as a lower class symbol, to an underclass one.

And all the TV chefs and food network nitwits and the old boy chef's clubs like the ACF aren't doing a thing to improve the situation.

So I would respond:
What are you going to say to a kid that just spent a TON of money on 2 years of culinary school, then spent two years working his arse off, when he gets a fifty cent raise?

What to you say to a young person who perhaps along wioth their parents or even the taxpayer, shelled out significant time and money on a career that offers a pretty low quality of life?

If they went in, eyes wide open, the I agree, tough beans.
But very few are either knowledgible, or get counseled on reality.
Getting them into C-school has become quite a racket.

And make NO doubt about it. Culinary school recruiters don't reveal the truth about wages in this business. Culinary schools are now an industry unto themselves.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Money comes from customers. People are fickle when it comes to money, cheaper is usually better, and quality doesn't usually factor into the equation. 20 years ago there were fewer people on this planet, fewer chain restaurants/fast food places, and much less convienience products. But the times they are a changing, and more people have to eat, and they want to eat cheaper, and the industry has responded accordingly. Not a good scene, but a realistic one.

Currently there is no standard for cooking, people with little or no training call themselves "Chef", the only qualification being ownership of a poofy white hat. There are many culinary schools, some good, some lousy, some call their graduates "Chef", and alot of them B.S. the student into thinking that upon graduation they'll be a in charge of a brigade of 30 cooks and earn $80-100,000 per year. The schools do not share a similar curriculum or even a textbook, many do not answer to anyone but their shareholders or board of directors. No one has the power or guts to take the culinary schools to task, this is free enterpirse, caveat emporium and all that. Then again, no one has the power or guts to actually define what a cook is or what a Chef is; benchmarks, standards, tests etc. Competition between restauarants and between fast food places has driven down the price and quality.


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## sam_2007 (Nov 20, 2007)

I once had a waiter share a line of charlie with my commie, for me i feel that service is better stoned. I have cought many a waitress in the kitchen with my waiters, me and my girlfreind "met" in the kitchen!


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Good luck with your future and your life....


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## sam_2007 (Nov 20, 2007)

Was that aimed at me?


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## iconoclast (Aug 8, 2007)

i believe so.


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## jim berman (Oct 28, 1999)

PLEASE keep it professional and stay on topic!


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Maybe I should clarify my post.

There is a line between the "recreational" drug user who has some control over his/her life, and the drug addict/ alcoholic who has virtually no control over their life. When someone has to work stoned/ drunk, and endorses working stoned or drunk they are deep into the addict camp. I don't hate the addicts/ alcoholics, but I hate, absolutely loathe the drugs, the damage, and behaviors they cause.

The damages and behaviors are pretty obvious, ranging from the no-shows/send homes, and the immediate stress they put on the rest of the crew, to the no-notice court dates and appearances, time wasted talking to cops, credit people, and slimeball debt collectors who demand that you garnishee the poor schmuck's paycheck; to the theft, fraud, broken relationships, and in one particular case that still haunts me, suicide.

Most druggies/alkies I've worked with fall under two groups: Those who have reached their peak and are thier way down, and those who continue to climb while doing drugs and then fall down--very fast, and very hard. But with both groups they always fall down, never up. The repeats usually bounce back-usually never getting anywhere better than before, but the others hit rock bottom and almost always stay there.

I do not tolerate the use of drugs in the workplace, I've seen the damages caused first hand. What you do on your own time is your business.


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## abefroman (Mar 12, 2005)

Yeah, of course that was aimed at you. That pretty low self respect for yourself if you have to rely on drugs to get women and think they improve your work, or other people are able to work better while abusing a controlled substance.

I hope your employer and any future employers see your post.


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## rat (Mar 2, 2006)

OOOOHHHHHH..... I'm gonna tell on you!!!

:lol::lol:


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## abefroman (Mar 12, 2005)

Yep, it probably wasn't a good idea for him to post that on a thread with posts from a guy named "rat"


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## bbay (Nov 22, 2007)

hi i'm new here but thought i'd opine anyway...

in the 15 or so restaurants that i have worked in, yes, drug use has been common.

i don't think to excess, but definately there.
maybe drug tolerence at the workplace has something to do with the country/city/community in which you live.

drugs are everywhere. they're in your school, they're in your workplace, they're at your home, they're at your church, your fishmonger is high, your baker is high, your nanny is high, your president is high.

i don't worry too much about it. if someone isn't pulling their weight, i fire them. whether they're high or whether they are just a terrible worker.


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## abefroman (Mar 12, 2005)

So you've worked with a lot of scum bags then. I doubt its that common especially among people who are the top chef's/sous chef or anyone who take their work seriously. What start restaurants were these that you worked in?

Also, I doubt any of the chefs on the food network are users.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

i don't worry too much about it. if someone isn't pulling their weight said:


> Worry about it. If you, as a manager, incur a workplace accident caused by drug/booze/substance abuse, guess who's responsible in he eyes of the local Labour Board, Worker's Comp board, or insurance Co.? No, not the drugged out worker, imagine that, being held responsible for their own actions, but you, the manager. If a high/drunk/stoned waiter/ess upsets a customer--tells him off, insults him, cheats him or otherwise pi**es him off, who suffers the monetary damage and damage to reputation? You again, and if you don't own the place, the owner will come down on you hard and fast.
> 
> Smart and good managers don't tolerate drugs or booze at the workplace, period. They know the odds, they know the consequences, and they don't want the t-shirt.


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## iconoclast (Aug 8, 2007)

George W. Bush substance abuse controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## rivitman (Jul 23, 2004)

Anybody that doesn't want to admit that there is an industry wide drug and alcohol problem, one directly related to the fact that food service workers are treated and compensated as an economic underclass is either kidding themselves, or have not worked in many places.

I'm going to add mental health issues to that mix. The number of people I have worked with with mental health issues or mental deficits, or disabilites, is staggering.

Not only that, but a whole charity based social programs system has evolved here locally, to funnel recovering addicts, alcoholics, the homeless, and the learning disabled into kitchen work. Local State funded tech schools with culinary programs have an unwritten policy of steering those with minimal capabilities into the culinary programs. It's a telling concept that educators and charitable organizations automatically think of kitchen work as the most suitable work for those with problems or impairments. They think that, because they simply mirror what the general public thinks.

While it's good to get these people out of whatever horrid circumstance they are in, most relapse and fail because kitchens are seldom a good place for persons with serious issues to heal themselves.

And the fact is the niether the public, nor employers care. The consider kitchen help disposable, and easily replaced. You will find exceedingly few employers int the USA with employee assistance programs.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

The food service industry is only one of the many industries with a nasty abuse problem. Construction, (now who has seen a framer or a form builder with a lucid, clear head?...) oil drilling, working on the "high" seas, and the uh, "entertainment" industry have a very high rate of substance abusers too. And some of these trades are also notorious for having some of the not-the sharpest-tool-in-the-sheds in their workforce as well. I can also say with great honesty, (and experience..) I've never met a lawyer who didn't drink either....

I challenge anyone to show us a profitable, well run, and established
business where the management endorses drugs or booze in the workplace. 

Throughout this thread, I've made my position very clear, I don't tolerate it in the workplace, either as an owner, or a manager, or an employee. I don't gaze at my navel, if I can't change the situation, I'll get out of there, fast. 

What's everyone else doing?.....


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## oldschool1982 (Jun 27, 2006)

What would ya'll expect? Especially from a society that idolizes the likes of Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, John Belushi, Jerry Garcia, Jim Morrison, Kurt Cobain...... and any number of the new generation "stars" that have abused, come clean, abused, come clean, abused, come clean (you get the picture by now). We're warped beyond belief and our priorities are definitely in the wrong place. Now I did and do enjoy the music, movies and such of many of those mention and in some ways they are missed but the one thing that everyone seems to forget is that many of these folks died as a direct result of the drugs they used and eventually abused. 

A couple of ya'll touched on the main issue as I see it so there's no reason to beat a dead horse. I'd also like to thank some of ya'll for validating the statement I made earlier. (and just for the record.....)


There is no rational argument or statement anyone can make (or should attempt to) for the benefits or acceptability in using illegal drugs anywhere!

As a side note I have a last thing to add for those that use. Personally I never have and you can bank on that. Yeah I talk about alcohol and all and except for a time when I lost several grand in a failed partnership .... I do enjoy a beverage every now and than but never have while working. I even had an owner that wished me to sit and enjoy a glass of wine when they would come in for dinner and I politely refused. (Huh! Maybe if I would've I'd have kept the job a bit longer.....Hmmmmm) 
Regardless, I have to take and have taken several combinations or otherwise of pain meds for a really serious back issue. (Phatch you have no idea what you may or may not have opened yourself up for in the future). These meds I know for a fact have not only been publicized about their abuse but I have been offered money to purchase them from even my employees. As far as the latter goes a quick look on my part that conveyed; "I am your boss and you are on the verge of loosing your job for even joking about such a thing...." Anyhow, these meds cause insomnia, mood shifts, heart, kidney and liver issue drooling, dizziness, vomiting and ulcers in addition to several other things. They also carry the risk of stroke and, of course, co-dependency. For the life of me I do everything I can to stay off of them and that includes being in enough pain to...... Why? Because I can't stand the way I feel when I take them. They really don;t take away the pain they just make ya stoopid for lack of a better description.

So what is the draw to use? Each illegal drug available has all of the same risks and more. Plus one of those "more" being you run the risk of having one of those ever popular "flash-backs". How the heck are ya gonna deal with wiping out an entire family (maybe your own) or worse because your driving a car or at the controls of something at work in the middle of one of these?

I've read the things in this thread and heard throughout life that it's an escape. Yet you never really escape since you have to come back to reality sooner or later. The only real escape from things is to either overcome what you're tying to escape from or off yourself. Then again if your using....the latter will probably happen sooner or later so........... Mission accomplished!


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## rat (Mar 2, 2006)

On another side note, I have worked with plenty people who have sucked without the "benefit" of drugs.


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## oldschool1982 (Jun 27, 2006)

Then I'd say, no matter what they did, they were in the wrong career.


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## montelago (Nov 19, 2007)

That is one of the nice things about Vegas casinos. Everyone goes through pre employment drug screening and background check. Then they are subject to random testing several times a year.


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

I thought this part of cheftalk was reserved for professionals in the industry?

Unless you have spent years and years in professional kitchens like many on the board have, I would really appreciate people respecting these forums.


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## duncan6 (Jun 9, 2007)

Unfortunately, I agree with many of those who have replied to this message that there is a high usage of drugs and alcohol in the food service industry. My personal experience has shown that usage is not particular to just one type of operation. Having worked in hotels, resorts, family-style, and corporate settings, I can say that the style of operation has little to do with drug and alcohol use among the workers. I see it is the mix of workers (users and non-users) and the company regulations that have more to do with the frequency of drug and alcohol use. For instance, in my present workplace, a corporate dining service, we are not only under the rules of our own company, but those of the corporation we service, when it comes to drug use. Drug screening procedures are tighten due to very high security measures governing over 1000 people at any one time on the company campus. Now, there are certainly "party animals" among my workers at different levels. Still, we are all aware of the "bottom line" about what is acceptable work behavior. Drug and alcohol use in our workplace is simply not tolerated. There is too much at stake when it comes to personal safety. In contrast, I have worked at places where a certain amount of drug and alcohol use was overlooked in the workplace, as long as a direct customer complaint and/or work injury did not become the result of it. Was it wrong? Absolutely. Was it accepted? Yes. 

Corporate regulations and worker mix aside, what I would like to leave here in this message is something all food service workers should keep in mind. Much of the success in food service hinges on "taste." As a chef, if I am frequently "sauced" or high, how can I really know how to create and control the true flavors of my food? If I am a server, I should not only know how the food tastes, but coherently and professionally explain the food to customers. Have you ever smelled alcohol on a server's breath as he/she tries to explain the menu to you? I have. Embarrassing, at the very least. Above all else, as a owner/manager, what kind of example am I setting by co-signing drug and alcohol use in my place by overlooking it or participating in it? I love a good party as much as the next person. But, drugs and alcohol have no place in the workplace and can be a serious roadblock to success. For me, I leave the partying for when someone else serves me outside the kitchen. Much success with your report, Alisha.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

I don't see any "Keep Out" signs, nor have I read anything that limits certain sections of the forum to professionals only. Can you point to such a rule?

How many years must one heve worked in a professional kitchen to be allowed to post here? Must one currently be working in a professional kitchen, or would having worked in a professional kitchen some years ago qualify one to read and write in these sections?

shel


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

Please go to the main board and read the professial cooking forums.Hope this helps.


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## jim berman (Oct 28, 1999)

This forum IS for professional users to share experiences and to have questions answered.
As posted on the 'entry' to this forum:

These forums are reserved for professional's in the food service industry
(Please note these forum are intended for professionals only. You are free to read but please refrain from posting.)

Only post insight that you know to be true and not speculation, especially when questioning somebody's character. This is an obviously sensitive issue, so please respond accordingly.


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## oldschool1982 (Jun 27, 2006)

Shel,

You sure got more of nads than grey matter on this one. Note that Jim has Administrator (there are only two) and CC has Moderator tagged to their names. Jim answeres to no one except maybe Nicko but FWIW I believe they are co-founders so that's probably not the case and CC answeres to Nicko and Jim. Not to anyone else. What they are saying is unless you have Chef legitamately tagged to your experience level there are plent'o other places for you to converse with folks on Chef talk. Please honor their request no matter how boldly stated!

Since the post that this addressed was deleted............Nevermind


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## montelago (Nov 19, 2007)

Well stated


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## shoemaker (Sep 20, 2007)

Have been following this thread over time, with slight amusement...... not that there aren't substance abuse problems in restaurants, but I'd be willing to bet, if averaged out across the board of people in general, the rate of overuse/abuse is identical to factory workers/medical workers/lawyers/white collar suits/everyman.....yeah, there are losers in ALL works of life. 
As far as what one chooses to ingest, I feel that's left to their discretion in their off-hours (been there, done that, decades ago  ) - employers expect one to be sober and clear-minded while on-the-clock, and that's how I rollll...... I have no time for f-ups on the job.
As far as actual usage (noticeable) on the job, my experience has been that alcohol is the biggest problem ...... but, in perspective, the vast majority of my jobs have been fairly "drug-free" as opposed to open usage and intoxicated behaviour ..... perhaps I've been lucky, but, other than the occasional loser, the vast majority of current and previous co-workers have been relatively stable/sober individuals while working. And this is coming from someone who has seen/done just about everything under the sun, but always after hours, never at work, so I'd know it if I saw it on-the-clock.
"Blaming" using on the industry (stress, hours, whatever) is just an addict cop-out..... I have no time nor sympathy for addicts of any sort At all .... ever ... Addiction is not a "disease," ....... it's an excuse for being weak, as I see it.


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## bbay (Nov 22, 2007)

whoa nellie!!!
not trying to start a fight! really!
i don't know what a 'start restaurant' is, but i think that maybe it sits atop a high horse...?

there are drugs in the workplace (period)

'how much of it are you going to put up with?' is the question.


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## abefroman (Mar 12, 2005)

That was an obvious typo, I meant star, I'm assuming these aren't 4 or 5 star restaurants you are talking about.


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## bbay (Nov 22, 2007)

no. i was being snarky.
i've said what i have to say. 
sorry if i offended you, but i DO believe it is unavoidable.
i may have been too defensive.
but i do feel somewhat validated in the whole 'high horse' thing.
opinions: they're a dime a dozen....
hope i didn't get off on the wrong foot... of the high horse 
which is unavoidable.
but do you really feel that the celebrities on the foodchannel deserve our respect? i would think that a 'chef' would cringe. i cringe, anyways.

drugs are bad, m'kay


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

starred restaurants, television, celebrity......comeon has everyone read, "Kitchen Confidential"? I've not weighed in on this one much.....

Abe, there are users in top positions of good restaurants. I'm not into naming names on this thread. But you would recognize the people I know that use.
In STL there are several I know that use.....and they are high profile.....don't know how they do it.


wow, nice use of the big bold lettering Jim.


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## atltournant (Apr 24, 2007)

That's why alcoholism is called "Chef's Disease"...and I think we are trumped by doctors and nurses regarding addiction issues.Either way,our profession is waaayyy up there.

From personal experience,I'd rather work with someone who partakes in the herb off the clock than someone who drinks,because I've seen the drinkers do a lot more stupid shite!

"Hard drugs"...uh,don't even want to associate with anyone who uses those.I've seen meth turn a normal,educated person into a raving lunatic within months and sadly,it is exploding in this country.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

This thread has gone on (and on and on...) for 7 pages now, generated a lot of passion and opinions. After page 5 or 6 things tend to get repeated over and over again.

The concensus with many pros seems to be that it is not tolerated on the job, they've all seen the damages and consequences, and what someone does on their own time is just that: What they do on their own time. A well run business does not tolerate drugs or booze and I think that all of us WANT to work in a professional, well run business

I love my job, love my trade, love food. It pains me to no end to see myself stereotyped as a druggie or someone who tolerates drugs in the workplace.


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## jim berman (Oct 28, 1999)

Good thread... lots of interesting input. At this point, however, we have covered (and covered and covered) the same ground. Time to zip it up.


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