# Understanding ground beef and burger patties!



## paxi (Oct 9, 2012)

I'm currently experimenting with ground beef, and would be grateful for your inputs.

I've running an extremely small, commercial kitchen where we mainly sell beef burgers. My recipe is pretty simple. Take fresh meat, shape em into round patties (using a mould) and then sprinkle liberally with salt and pepper. We're using the freshest possible meat and this process gives really really tender, soft patties. However, if we leave the formed patties, overnight in the fridge, we notice that the patties the next day become rather rubbery(and fast food like). And to ensure standards, we've to discard them. The process then starts all over from the next day, when we get new ground beef and make patties. This does lead to a lot of wastage.

In order to minimize wastage, we've been thinking about getting fresh meat, chilling it in the fridge, and mincing our own meat based on the demand(i.e as soon as the orders start coming)

*So, for that i've a few questions:*

1) For approximately how long, can *fresh beef *stay good for, in a chiller. *NOTE*:* Freezing beef destroys the flavour*, we're only talking about *chilling(refrigerating*) it. Upto 48 hours? 24 hours? And by staying good i mean, so good that the flavour remains unaffected.

2) What's the appropriate temprature that it should be chilled at?

3) Am i right in assuming that the seasoning of the patty affects the internal structure of the patty? i.e if you leave a patty, salt pepper and all, overnight in a chiller, it is likelier to be different in structure to a patty that was left at the same time but without the seasoning.


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## michaelga (Jan 30, 2012)

Best of luck!


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

I prefer 38 degrees.Grind your own blends of beef. Don't throw away saute and use for meat sauce or sloppy joe's, Should keep about 3 days max at 38. Grill or broil without squeezing or compressing burgers.  In nost cases seasoning only affects outer part of beef as  juices and liquids come outward and not inward. some may penetrate but not much. I prefer to mix seasoning in the beef prior.


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## paxi (Oct 9, 2012)

Thanks for the advice guys, just one another thing, say if take a cut of meat. Cut in into two pieces A and B. Assume A and B are both identical. A)) i convert immediately into ground beef, by passing through a Mincer, and i shape a patty, and leave it at 38 degrees for 24 hours.

B)) I take and leave it for 24 hours at 38 degrees. I then pass it through a mincer and shape a patty.

*Note i have seasoned neither. *

*Are they both identical?* i.e does A=B? Or which one of the two is fresher/juicier?


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## smork (Aug 27, 2012)

so these unseasoned meats are takeing on a different profile after being processed for 24 hours?


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

I would form them but season them right before cooking.  It's the air that turns the outside brown, and if that annoys you, then layer them between parchment and wrap them in plastic wrap.

And to answer your last question Paxi, the fresher the grind the fresher the beef.  Just make sure the beef has been sealed and there's no oxidation and discoloration on the outside.  Grind as soon as you remove from the packaging.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Ok. You are currently buying pre ground beef from an outside source, right?

Is this meat 100% beef, no fillers or seasoning, right?

Like chefed mentioned, ground beef should be handled with kid gloves.

Overworked ground beef (like pressing into a mold) will become sticky and tough.

My hubs grinds all of our 'burg, using a mix of cuts like brisket and chuck and whatever else looks good (and is on sale )when it is time to replenish our freezer (note here that he dumps a few bags of ice in the sink, adds a bit of water and situates the tub (for the ground product) inside this cold water.

Sort of like ed's "cold room".

He uses his hands to "fluff" (mix and distribute) all of the (fresh) ground cuts together.

He also vacuum packs this meat in 1 lb packages.

When I thaw some out for a meal, it tastes the same as if I had bought it that day.

Moral of the story...grind your own meat, keep it cold and gently form your burgers "a la minute".

Your customers will thank you.

mimi


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

I do almost same thing, only I don't freeze it.  Part 2 of your question are they the same. No the burger made day before will throw out more blood because it was  chopped yesterday.   I also use chuck,brisket,and rounds. and sometime rib deckle


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## paxi (Oct 9, 2012)

Appreciate the responses guys.

Flipflop girl, my process is roughly the same as yours, other than the freezing bit . I feel that freezing greatly affects taste.


ED BUCHANAN said:


> I do almost same thing, only I don't freeze it. Part 2 of your question are they the same. No the burger made day before will throw out more blood because it was chopped yesterday. I also use chuck,brisket,and rounds. and sometime rib deckle


Sorry, what do you mean by throw out more blood? So you mean the patty that was made and then frozen for 24 hours is likely to contain more juices? Or is it likelier to throw out more moisture, i.e be more rubbery once it's been cooked?


smork said:


> so these unseasoned meats are taking on a different profile after being processed for 24 hours?


Yes, i think so. I'll do a controlled experiment soon and post the results.


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## chefbuba (Feb 17, 2010)

I have a burger truck these days. I get choice ground chuck fresh daily and try not to over buy, so I don't end up with a bunch of day old pattys.

It is loosely packed when I get it. I loosely form into balls, then put between sandwich paper and give it one whack with a #4 tuna can (no mold needed), turns out perfect patties every time.

Also season when they hit the grill, not before. I char broil, and prefer this method.

There is a difference in quality between day old and fresh. The day old will loose some of it's moisture, resulting in a dryer burger.

I'm selling an $8 burger, not a $20 burger, so the day olds get used here, I just try to limit the amount.


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Meat ''throws out blood"" when sitting any length of time or is altered or chopped. Same being yourself, if I chop your finger blood will come out, if I don;t  it wont. Harsh way to explain it but you should now understand.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

In a perfect world we would just grind what we need that day.

The hubs will process 20-30 lbs at a time so he handles the product as gently as possible.

The thought of freezer wrapping that much meat is a huge turnoff for me, ergo the vacuum sealer.

It does compress the content quite a bit, but not so much as to make a noticeable difference.

I do notice some free space blood when the pouch is slit open, but as I noted before, not so much as to make a huge difference.

I really hope the hubs doesn't read this thread or it will be back to freezer wrapping (always my job and IMO really sucks up my time).

mimi


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

We're not talking freezing at home and pulling them four at a time here.  The guy is running a small burger joint, which probably means limited staff, limited time.


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## paxi (Oct 9, 2012)

Thanks for the responses guys! Really appreciate all this help.


kuan said:


> We're not talking freezing at home and pulling them four at a time here. The guy is running a small burger joint, which probably means limited staff, limited time.


Yep, i can afford to make batches daily and not freeze them. But, yes, i should be looking into reusing them for the next day.


ED BUCHANAN said:


> Meat ''throws out blood"" when sitting any length of time or is altered or chopped. Same being yourself, if I chop your finger blood will come out, if I don;t it wont. Harsh way to explain it but you should now understand.


Thanks Ed, but i'm still slightly confused. So, it does not matter, how finely the meat is cut, say if you take *day old meat*, huge roast/chuck chunks, and make ground patties out of it. It will be the same as when you take fresh meat, make ground patties, and then fridge them for a day? Since, they've both been "*sitting*". Or does the fact, that they've been *sitting in larger chunks f*or a day means that the blood hasn't flown out much. And hence, the *patties will be better(read more tender)?*


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## paxi (Oct 9, 2012)

Extremely sorry, but just noticed that this should be in the ChefTalk Cooking Forums. Mods, is it possible to move it?


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## recky (Oct 15, 2012)

Hi,

has anyone tried grilling burgers from frozen? I occasionally get my hands on larger amounts of minced (sorry, ground) goat from a nearby farm and can't sell it fast enough. So it has to be frozen. If I shape it into patties and deep-freeze them, then chuck them on the grill hard as a rock, would this work?

Cheers,

Recky


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Believe me it's been done. When someone forgets to pull the burgers from the freezers two days before or w.hen you simply run out. Not ideal and it is near impossible to get it to the correct doneness.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

I don't know if this is still true, but many years ago that is what was done at Jack-in-the-box - throwing frozen patties on the grill.  It worked.  I wouldn't do that with anything I ate, but in general it worked.  I've done it at home, too, a few time out of desparation.  I always find it easier to get a good sear with a thawed patty, though.  Also a bit difficult to get much mroe than well done without risking cold innards.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

That is how the Jack in the Box e. Coli outbreak happened. The burgers were not getting up to temp. Of course didn't help that they were contaminated.


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