# Food Cost and Budgets



## chefboy2160 (Oct 13, 2001)

Good day all!

I am wondering how all of you are coping with the economy, your food costs and budgets. I moved to the health care arena 13 years ago and we work on a budget derived from the census at the facility. My current budget is $3.75 per patient day (PPD) . I run a small assisted living with 40 apartments and my only vendor the company allows me to purchase food and supplies from is Sysco with a once a week delivery. This is a very tough dollar amount to make work in this setting as it includes employee meals also which are reimbursed at $1.25 each. My company is consistent for the last three years I have received a nickel a year increase in budget while the food prices have been increasing at a much  faster pace and now I am trying to write a new 7 week rotational menu with good food but at budget!

I have for the last 3 years had the best budget in the company always being just slightly under but man is this getting harder to do as costs go up.

I can surely feel for the owner operators and chefs who must continue to stay competitive in this economy in order to have incomes. Also in my case having just one vendor kinda negates the finding better product and better price thing which can be a major part of the food cost control and customer satisfaction.

What I am doing to keep costs down is most all meat fabrication  (whole turkeys, Top rounds, Pit hams, pork butts) with a bonus of stock and broths as well as leftovers for other meals and soups. Also a lot of scratch baking and cutting up all fruits and salads.

So how is this lovely economy affecting your world and what are you doing to cope with it? Off to work.................


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

1) If they cut down on your food budget, the only thing you have to bargain with is _*to have at least 5 vendors. *_ If management does not agree to this then you might as well walk away. I'm dead serious about this. Be diplomatic as possible about it, but if you only rely on one supplier, you're never going to get the best price, and you will be forced to accept thier prices and increases

2) Have at least two suppliers for meat, 2 for poultry, 3 for fresh produce, 3 for beverages, two for dry goods and try to make as many inhouse desserts as possible. There are many good frozen raw dough bread products out there, and proof and bake is fairly straight forward with added advantages of "freshly baked" bragging rights and no minimum bakery orders for delivery.

3) Take advantage of seasonal produce. Now is the time to buy in fresh strawbs, blueberries,etc locally and freeze them, in fall you can get onions and potatoes fairly cheap locally and they don't need refirgeration to store.

4) Most suppliers have "Fresh sheets" or weekly/monthly specials. Take advantage of these and plan them into your menus.

5) Try to do as much in-house butchering as posible. Cost for whole chix fryers might be as low as $3./lb, cost for portioned breasts is as much as $7/lb. Save the legs for other items, use the bones for stock. I regularily render down the fat and skin (i.e. "Schmaltz") to use for sweating aromatics in my soups and sauces. Same goes for salmon, and you can always make your own ground pork and ground beef.

Hope this helps, but remember, you can't do anything if you only rely on one supplier....


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## chefboy2160 (Oct 13, 2001)

foodpump said:


> 1) If they cut down on your food budget, the only thing you have to bargain with is _*to have at least 5 vendors. *_ If management does not agree to this then you might as well walk away. I'm dead serious about this. Be diplomatic as possible about it, but if you only rely on one supplier, you're never going to get the best price, and you will be forced to accept thier prices and increases
> 
> ****************************************************************************************
> 
> ...


Great pointers for any one trying to save a buck and keep up the quality. Thanks.........


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

O.K. so you're inbetween a rock and hard place...

If you really want to make something stick, then you have to pull out the big guns and be prepared to walk away.  You keep a clean kitchen and consistant costs, basically you're very good at what you do, and the natural tendancy for upper manglement is to ask for a 100 bucks when you give them 5 bucks.

The only thing they understand is money, and this is the route you have to go.

You have to proove, on paper, that prices for staples have increased as you state, you have to proove, on paper, that your budget has only increased by 5 cents.  Next you have to proove, with non-Sysco  supplier's current price lists, that you can get the same items, or a reasonable replacement, for cheaper than you can get through Sysco.  And I'm guessing that Sysco suplies all the paper products and cleaning products for the kitchen too.......

Question is, who do you give the report to after you've invested all this time and effort in writing it?

The big boys make side money by buying in bulk,(i.e. kickbacks) so their first reaction will be that "other suppliers" aren't Sysco and don't meet the Health and quality controls Sysco does. They'll diss your report.

You immediate boss, the one who probably pays all the Sysco bills, might see things a bit different, it's his money, after all.

This is where push comes to shove, and if you go through with it, you better have a zillion copies of your resume out there, for back-up purposes.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Sysco has more then 1 price on every item. It depends sometime at how fast you pay your bills. Sysco is notorious for substituting their Imperial brand for the brand you order ie You order Hellman's they tell you out of stock send you Imperial. Don't accept it send it back if they see they can get away with it they will do it more and more.Call your salesman tell him get the Hellmans bring it right over. He will. Get a price lets say on 16/20 shrimp ask how much a pound.They say lets say $6.95. Ok now ask  how much a pound for 100 Pounds. If he says same price tell him you have to check other sources. Play the game hard because they will do anything they can to make $. So you have to do same. They make more $ by selling you their own brand,so does the salesman.Watch the invoice many times item will go up gradually from previously quoted price  and they wont tell you. I worked for 1 place where I used 500 as is Prime Ribs a week .When I got them down 2 cents a pound it was $400.00 a week or $20800.00 per years. Not a bad hunk of change. Had I paid 3.99 per pound or 4.01 per pound I would have received same ribs..When you buy, make believe money is coming out of your pocket.


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## chefboy2160 (Oct 13, 2001)

Ed you hit the nail on the head! "When you buy, make believe money is coming out of your pocket." these are words to live buy as a professional for sure and what a difference it makes for your food cost over the long run as you so aptly pointed out.

As a young cook I worked for several immigrant owner operators (German, Greek and Italian) all of who made there livings through there restaurants and they were successful in a large part by watching all expenditures closely.

You are so right that these sales reps will do as much as possible to up there ante and foodpump has given me an old idea. I am going to get price quotes from a couple of meat,fish, produce and bread companies and leave them lying around the office and when the rep comes in I will let her wait for me in there for a little bit so she can snoop through them and then I will tell her we are having a bit of a corporate shake up and we might be able to mix up our purveyors soon for better pricing and quality! Hey maybe she would like to give me an updated price list. I will then start a bi-weekly faxing of highlighted prices compared to Syscos to the corporate office asking when can we start saving the company money and making our clients happier with better quality stuff. Yep, its time to make a few waves..

Thanks............


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## chef tomain (Nov 17, 2008)

Ditto. another strategy I use is to work my way up the middle man chain eliminating as many in betweens as possible. On most items its hard to do but if your using lots of (fill in the blank)

try to get as close to the source as possible to get the cheapest price you can. Another strategy is to call up vendors get cheapest price and then call the other back to see if they can best x price,making them compete against each other. The final solution: Cut back on portions of costly ingrediants and add filler items,

My mom worked at a nursing home and for Thanksgiving the kitchen would serve 125 patients with two turkeys, dinner consisted of small portion of turkey 1"x1", a pill cup of cranberry sauce, a tblsp of potato and peas. The patient would complain constantly. I though the situation was pretty sick. But as the prevailing corp. view " don't let people get in the way of profits. I would just kick and scream the point you need more money, more money. What are you going to do when the dollar deflates and your $3.75 turns into $1.87.


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## caterchef (Oct 12, 2009)

Ed Buchanan said:


> Sysco has more then 1 price on every item. It depends sometime at how fast you pay your bills. Sysco is notorious for substituting their Imperial brand for the brand you order ie You order Hellman's they tell you out of stock send you Imperial. Don't accept it send it back if they see they can get away with it they will do it more and more.Call your salesman tell him get the Hellmans bring it right over. He will. Get a price lets say on 16/20 shrimp ask how much a pound.They say lets say $6.95. Ok now ask how much a pound for 100 Pounds. If he says same price tell him you have to check other sources. Play the game hard because they will do anything they can to make $. So you have to do same. They make more $ by selling you their own brand,so does the salesman.Watch the invoice many times item will go up gradually from previously quoted price and they wont tell you. I worked for 1 place where I used 500 as is Prime Ribs a week .When I got them down 2 cents a pound it was $400.00 a week or $20800.00 per years. Not a bad hunk of change. Had I paid 3.99 per pound or 4.01 per pound I would have received same ribs..When you buy, make believe money is coming out of your pocket.


/img/vbsmilies/smilies/chef.gifThat is why I liked the Chef's pay rate up north over down south.

Up north the Chef got a percentage of total sales and a percentage of net. profits.

He would take a monthly draw on those percentages.

The owners treated the Chef as a business partner.

If the Chef did something increase sales he profited from it.

If the Chef did something to save money he profited from it.

It is not a system favored by GM's or taught at culinary schools.

In the south they are treat Chefs like a Kitchen Manager on salary and maybe a bonus.

It's also why I didn't get along with the Union. I always made more than union scale.

I don't miss the bad weather up north but, I do miss the smarter Restaurant owners./img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Also be careful when buying on contract. Example Sysco again, Bacon contracted price 2.79lb . Pork Market takes a big drop, going price now is 2.49. Contract stlll 2.79.. Easy solution don't buy bacon from them. Buy from 2.49 source. Contract does not say you must buy bacon from them, Also when you buy  on contract you can't take advantage of market prices. On an overall you will save.$. Sysco also cuts deals where your company gets a rebate monthly based on sales.from them.(they collect rebate from broker or manufacturer, higher then what they are giving your company.. If you do volume like I did you go to broker and cut own deals and get great prices..It takes a little time , but it is amazing what you save..Sometimes a broker cuts a product out  and you can buy it all for 1/3 of the usual price.   REMEMBER  Save pennies and they will equal dollars.


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## chefboy2160 (Oct 13, 2001)

Ed Buchanan said:


> Also be careful when buying on contract. Example Sysco again, Bacon contracted price 2.79lb . Pork Market takes a big drop, going price now is 2.49. Contract stlll 2.79.. Easy solution don't buy bacon from them. Buy from 2.49 source. Contract does not say you must buy bacon from them, Also when you buy on contract you can't take advantage of market prices. On an overall you will save.$. Sysco also cuts deals where your company gets a rebate monthly based on sales.from them.(they collect rebate from broker or manufacturer, higher then what they are giving your company.. If you do volume like I did you go to broker and cut own deals and get great prices..It takes a little time , but it is amazing what you save..Sometimes a broker cuts a product out and you can buy it all for 1/3 of the usual price. REMEMBER Save pennies and they will equal dollars.


Now I got it! Yes we have the contracted prices on the ESysco order guide for our company but when using the product search button I see our contracted prices do not follow market trends.We are led to believe by our sales rep that these are what we are supposed to buy but I never see the rebate on my food cost bottom line if we get one at all through this company.

This facility I am currently with is the smallest operation I have ever run and I have found that smaller operations require much more attention to detail than a larger one does.At my last facility I had an average of $8,000 weekly for food and here I have about $1,000 with very little storage space as in 1 double door refer for protein and 1 single door for produce with only 2 chest freezers and one upright single door unit all which require continual defrosting.

My dry goods room is smaller than my freezer at my last place and oh how I miss my walk in refer!

I have been out of the kitchen for the last 6 months due to surgery but I was able to train my fill in and he just does not get it and has run the budget several thousand dollars over mainly by buying break items instead of full cases. Break a case of ham and it costs you 5 dollars more as well as other meats, cheeses, produce and dry good items. You actually can save money by spending more on whole case items and not being charged the break price than trying to keep the current order lower with break items.

Any other ideas on this little pop stand??????????/ Gotta work and thanks for the input.........


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

It's my understanding that when a buyer "contracts" a price with Sysco, he must guarantee a minimum amount of the product he will buy for a 6 mth or 12 mth period.  If I know your upper manglement boys, they have probably contracted prices for staples like bacon, tomatoes, veg oil, etc. and are relying on you to "help them" make thier minimum amount guarantee.

You say your only alotted a once a week delivery, with no other suppliers, and have didly-squat for refrigeration?

Ai-ya ya yeih-ya yaieh...... 

I dunno, assuming you had your boss's blessing ( your immediate supervisor, not the Upper manglement boys) could you rent fridge/freezer space from a nearby restaurant?  Or even deal with the devil and buy several month's worth of say, hams, bacon, mayonniase etc. and have Sysco keep them in their warehouse for you?


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

Hi Chef, I'm on the other side of the State Northeast from you. What I see in my food service is, the convenience food I use, that used to be labor saving, is no longer affordable. The Convenience food items saved me labor dollars, so it was a win win situation. That gave me a two man kitchen and time to make everything right. Now that I can't afford the luxury of these items, and no longer can afford the labor, I have all the work of 4 people, back on the shoulders of two. It's getting harder and harder to give quality at a low price, something has to give, I guess Its me.............................The best.............Chef BillyB...................P.S


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Foodpump   Chef you buy contract, if you have to you do not have to guarantee x amount. Most of them use last years figures as their guide. If they asked me for a guarantee, I would tell them I have to check other purveyors. You gotta play hardball with these guys. I am not saying be dishonest. Just hardball. Example truck drops off something and it is not mine or they did not bill me ,I tell them. This shows them I have ethics, but at same time If their price is high they are shafting me.That is not ethics on their part. Same applies if they send something in NG or bad. I call them up and say "Are we paying you with damaged checks or broken money? No !  then don't send me defective merchandise. they get the hint.


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## gypsy2727 (Mar 9, 2010)

I have a large list of suppliers...main and alternative

I would never depend on a twic a week delivery and by one source?...your at their mercy with that route for supplies.

For example I deal with The Butcher Shoppe 7 day a week delivery 24 hour telephone messaging ...Truck leaves at 5 a.m but if you catch the order desk at 4:30 a.m they'll throw what ya need on there. Building a good repore with suppliers is so key.

Champage Poultry is the same ...although they do like to speak to you directly at the desk...they'll come up and hand deliver if your really in a jam.I know the original owner as I apprenticed under him at the King Eddie hotel ...he's retired now.

I love my vegetable supplier ..even though he's a hot head he gives me the lowdown on all prices and I always have two back up 24 hour sources ...one of them being me!

Build your network of key vendors ...and remember you are the purchaser in this company ...ya gotta play hardball


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## chefboy2160 (Oct 13, 2001)

Foodpump said

It's my understanding that when a buyer "contracts" a price with Sysco, he must guarantee a minimum amount of the product he will buy for a 6 mth or 12 mth period. If I know your upper manglement boys, they have probably contracted prices for staples like bacon, tomatoes, veg oil, etc. and are relying on you to "help them" make thier minimum amount guarantee.

chefboy2160

My understanding is that since we have contracted with sysco they give us a pricing agreement

on certain items which shows up on the order guide in red letters which lets the purchaser know that these prices are constant for the year. No reimbursement with this company. No F&B structure either only a clinical registered dietitian to support the skilled nursing facilities. All F&B agreements are made at the regional level which has turned over twice (VP and RD) in the last 2 years and the new people will not be willing to make any decisions which will rock there boat. Typical corporate attitude in this environment I am afraid.

I did notice when I first came on board that the pricing between this account and my last was quite different. Items cost me a lot less with my previous account where I spent 8 to 9 hundred thousand annually on food versus the 50 thousand I spend now. I also did receive quarterly reimbursements on my food cost per our contract which was a nice boon.

An example was I bought a case of dinner plates from sysco before I left my last account and 3 months later purchased the same case with this small outfit and paid 40 dollars more!

Also I was always visited by a sales rep at my last outfit with the RD or VP stopping by a couple times a tear to make sure I was happy where here I have never seen a corporate sysco person and my sales rep is frequently to busy to stop by and I get a quick phone call from the cell in the car. Man I sure do miss the purchasing power of being able to spend bigger money and the cost and customer service benefits it gives you.

Chef BillyB

Hi Chef, I'm on the other side of the State Northeast from you. What I see in my food service is, the convenience food I use, that used to be labor saving, is no longer affordable. The Convenience food items saved me labor dollars, so it was a win win situation. That gave me a two man kitchen and time to make everything right. Now that I can't afford the luxury of these items, and no longer can afford the labor, I have all the work of 4 people, back on the shoulders of two. It's getting harder and harder to give quality at a low price, something has to give, I guess Its me.............................The best.............Chef BillyB...................P.S

chefboy2160

I feel for you man. I have seen the changes as I am old enough to remember when chickens came in whole and broccoli was delivered on ice. It was hard for me at first to start using some of the convienience items but now they have become a major staple in a lot of kitchens. I used to work at a major hotel casino in Reno and before I left the area I had breakfast with the chef who I used to work for and he told me he was purchasing a machine for the pantry which would eliminate 2 FTEs. He told me this machine was set up to where you could dump in cases of potatoes, onions and such and get whatever cut you wanted and that this would pay for itself in under a year.

I do know that convienence food has lowered the skill level required to work a lot of kitchens

but in your case it is quite justifiable as a labor saving device until as you say the pricing puts you at a breaking point.

Ed Buchanan

Foodpump Chef you buy contract, if you have to you do not have to guarantee x amount. Most of them use last years figures as their guide. If they asked me for a guarantee, I would tell them I have to check other purveyors. You gotta play hardball with these guys. I am not saying be dishonest. Just hardball. Example truck drops off something and it is not mine or they did not bill me ,I tell them. This shows them I have ethics, but at same time If their price is high they are shafting me.That is not ethics on their part. Same applies if they send something in NG or bad. I call them up and say "Are we paying you with damaged checks or broken money? No ! then don't send me defective merchandise. they get the hint.

chefboy2160

Maybe just maybe I can play a little hardball with my own corporate people as well as the sysco group. Broken money, I love it, great advice Chef.

gypsy2727

I have a large list of suppliers...main and alternative

chefboy2160

I used to be able to work that way even in health care (acute care hospitals have the most money) but I have found that the arena I am in now (assisted living) is at the bottom of the food chain as far as care and food is concerned.

Its sad to see how this health care biz is set up and how profit driven it is. Our regions employees received no pay increases this year due to the economy and not meeting projected profit increases.

Just a quick note that this is not Sysco bashing in any way but just a lot of frustration at attempting to do the best job with what I have to work with. I sure do miss Rykoff and other companies though...............


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## gypsy2727 (Mar 9, 2010)

Chickens still come in whole and broccoli still comes in on ice....Sysco is a joke ...sorry I don't waste my time with that kind of nonsence.

                     Good luck playing hardball with Sysco. I would not touch them with a ten foot bat

All the best

Gypsy


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

gypsy2727 said:


> Chickens still come in whole and broccoli still comes in on ice....Sysco is a joke ...sorry I don't waste my time with that kind of nonsence.
> 
> Good luck playing hardball with Sysco. I would not touch them with a ten foot bat
> 
> ...


Real world man. People use SYSCO because the people who write their paychecks say use SYSCO.


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## gypsy2727 (Mar 9, 2010)

kuan said:


> Real world man. People use SYSCO because the people who write their paychecks say use SYSCO.


Not in my world ....that sucks so does SYSCO and is totally alien to me I have never and never will have anyone dictate who I should order from and leave me enough rope to hang myself with when it comes to MY food and labour cost and budget. You walk into a job like that and your setting yourself up for failure.

Make sure you cross all your Ts and dot all your Is before you sign on the dotted line...it all looks so wonderfull from the outside ....then well just read the other threads and you can figure it out


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Ahhh.. Gypsy, you know I'm 100% with you on not using Sysco, last business I had Sysco Rep figued he would "love bomb " me and wouldn't get out of my face, got to the point where I threatned the regional Sales manger with a restraining order.

Problem is, big giants play best with big giants, and dwarves play best with dwarves--they might get along otherwise, but they play best with their own kind. Sysco is an institutional supplier, and therefore _*loves*_ institutions like seniors homes, schools, etc, and the place where the original poster is, I believe, has contracted out the food service and related management to an outside company. This company, I am sure, manages many other similar institutions and can do as they please. One of the things they can do is play with the big boys like Sysco and US foods, and get volume discounts and contracted prices--Giants playing with giants, screw the individual Chefs at the other end, they're just there to fullfill contract obligations and to keep the payroll dept and acct. dept employed.

I still get whole fryers by the case- if I order from a poultry supplier (and in many cases the same supplier Sysco uses), and I get broccoli on ice, if I order from a produce supplier.

I get a big kick out of my business neighbor down the street, he's a very large Italian importer and retailer of Italian goods : olive oil, tomato products, pasta, etc, I walk past him every day on my way to work, Every morning I see big trucks loading up from his warehouse, Sysco, GFS, and many of the medium and smaller purveyors as well. I deal direct with my chocolate supplier, and Sysco is there too, buying from him.

I_* love *_being a dwarf, won't have it any other way


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Whatever.  Sysco can help when you're big and it can hurt when you're small.

Maybe go down to 3oz half breasts and marinade it yourself.  This brings the weight up a bit.  Pretoss your salads so you're not having half the dressing come back.  Switch from LCR to whole heads.  Bulk fill your ketchup and mustard bottles too maybe.

Actually the best thing you can do is to sit down with your rep and cost out the menu.  It's a lot of work but it might really make you realize where your money is going.   Get together with your rep together with your 7 week or even 14 week menu and see what you can work out.  Sometimes you can get a sub at a better price. 

Whatever you do, try not to buy expensive sugar substitute.  Stick with Sweet and Low or whatever is cheaper.


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## gypsy2727 (Mar 9, 2010)

Sorry to say it's laziness on a chefs part

                                       I have worked for corporate giants and that's why I got paid the big bucks to research suppliers and not depend on these BS" gods waiting room" suppliers.

Why did we come into this business anyhow? To have someone dictate to us the way food should be put out ...come on people ...have we been sitting in the Easy chair to long?


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

I hear you Gypsy man, we all hear you, but the guy can only order from Sysco.  That's the company policy.


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## gypsy2727 (Mar 9, 2010)

I hear ya too Kuan...loud and clear

                             the chef has stated he has main suppliers and alternatives....see above


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## greg (Dec 8, 1999)

gypsy2727 said:


> I hear ya too Kuan...loud and clear
> 
> the chef has stated he has main suppliers and alternatives....see above


He said he has a *list* of main suppliers and alternatives, in the original post he states he is only allowed to order from Sysco. I'm sure he would utilize that list if it weren't against company policy.


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## gypsy2727 (Mar 9, 2010)

Greg said:


> He said he has a *list* of main suppliers and alternatives, in the original post he states he is only allowed to order from Sysco. I'm sure he would utilize that list if it weren't against company policy.


Well I guess what i am trying to say is....... this chef needs to as Food Pump earlier stated is to prove to upper manglement that the utilization of various other suppliers (which chef has a *list* of ..thank-you) is the best route with the ever changing fluctuation of food and labour costs. If you cannot deal with the person signing your pay cheques then well just crawl under a rock and take it. As a professional these issues should not be new.


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## chefboy2160 (Oct 13, 2001)

Greg said:


> He said he has a *list* of main suppliers and alternatives, in the original post he states he is only allowed to order from Sysco. I'm sure he would utilize that list if it weren't against company policy.


Dead on the money.My best option for starters is to surf the product guide and see just what the best deals and quality I can get like Kuan said and something I already do religiously

There are a lot of venues in this industry and sometimes you just don't know where you will end up at. In 1995 if someone told me this is how I would have been ordering I would have said they were flippin nuts. In 1997 I found myself a single dad with 8 and 11 year old boys to raise on my own with no family around to help and I needed a job with more normal hours and lo and behold here is a hospital looking to turn there food around with an easy schedule and better pay than the Hotels / Casinos and I made the jump. 3 years layer a skilled nursing facility bought me for a big increase, 6 years later my new wife's dad gets sick and needs care and we move to this new and small local where this job is actually not bad for the area.

The hardest part of this institutional type cooking is that you are part of a larger team than just food and beverage (Doctors,Nursing,Housekeeping,Maintenance,Activities,Marketing,Accounting,Administration) where in a restaurant you more a part of a single minded team and customer service.

Several times since working in health care I have taken second jobs in dinner houses just to keep my groove and play (always as a line cook) and also I have helped friends out with a lot of catering as well as doing some myself but I must admit to getting lazy and enjoying these 40 hour weeks.

The real test and what can keep you motivated in this arena is the ability to put out the best food you can with what you have to work with and in reality I feel that this is the true test of any chef. I have always found that the higher quality ingredients you can purchase than the easier it is to make good food, while when working within the parameters I now find myself you actually have to use all of your knowledge (and help from people like this board) to make the best food you can. Kinda like the old trail drive camp cook, you have your staples and and work with whatever else you can get. thanks all, Gotta Work now. Doug.............
.


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## greyeaglem (Apr 17, 2006)

$3.75 per day? Is that for 3 meals? I'm pretty good with money, but not that good! Maybe you can apply for food stamps on the patients' behalf. More than likely you are already doing this, but remember soup is your friend. Older people are especially fond of soup and you can use any leftovers you have in it. I used to make tomato soup for the assisted population by mixing heavy cream with canned marinara sauce and some water to thin. They loved it and it was much less money than canned tomato soup. You could use milk instead of the cream I would imagine. I never did, but it should work. I have made that same soup in restaurants since then and people always love it. They can't believe I make it that way. It came around by accident because the place I worked had tomato soup on the menu and didn''t have any in stock, so that's what I did. Good luck. You need all you can get.


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## chefboy2160 (Oct 13, 2001)

greyeaglem said:


> $3.75 per day? Is that for 3 meals? I'm pretty good with money, but not that good! Maybe you can apply for food stamps on the patients' behalf. More than likely you are already doing this, but remember soup is your friend. Older people are especially fond of soup and you can use any leftovers you have in it. I used to make tomato soup for the assisted population by mixing heavy cream with canned marinara sauce and some water to thin. They loved it and it was much less money than canned tomato soup. You could use milk instead of the cream I would imagine. I never did, but it should work. I have made that same soup in restaurants since then and people always love it. They can't believe I make it that way. It came around by accident because the place I worked had tomato soup on the menu and didn''t have any in stock, so that's what I did. Good luck. You need all you can get.


Yep, $3.75 per day per meal depending on census! And that includes all food stuff from coffee to condiments on the table. Also a big yes on the soups which all are home made and many incorporate leftovers. Soup, Salad and fresh fruit are served with lunches and dinners and I use canned fruit for breakfast. Prunes are bought dried and rehydrated in batches as they are much cheaper this way. Also we offer cottage cheese and bulk yogurt at all 3 meals.Most of the residents are over 80 and very few take a regular portion with small portions being the norm so I can save on my protein costs there. breakfast I cook to order and normally just 1 egg per person so that helps also. Lunch is the big meal of the day with dinner being very light such as a sandwich and fruit or chips or salads such as Taco, chicken caesar, chefs, shrimp or crab. The residents favorites are desserts (pie being #1) and good fresh cooked veggies.

If you think $3.75 is low I was offered a job I applied at before I moved here with the Shasta county Sherrifs department in the jail where the food cost was $.81 per inmate day, Now there is where the food stamps can save ya but here our residents pay on average a little over 3 thousand per month for a studio apt. which includes housekeeping and laundry once a week, 3 meals a day and activities. I sure wish they gave us a little bit more money to feed our seniors though thats for sure. Gotta work now.Have a great day all, Doug......


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## greyeaglem (Apr 17, 2006)

Whew! If it's per meal, that's tough but do-able. The food stamp remark was meant to be a sarcastic joke. I once knew a guy who ran a prison kitchen. Made me sick what the inmates got compared to what school kids and nusing home residents get. He showed me a menu, and had I not known where it was from, I would have thought it was a room service menu for a high end hotel.  I worked for a catering company that had a contract for a school that included a boarding/prep school. The students were mostly wealthy Asians who came from families that had private chefs. Not only do I not know anything about Asian cooking, especially from five different countries that have only rice in common, but I had your kind of budget. Add to that that the fact that the guy in charge of the school was actively hated by these kids and his favorite pastime was to ask them how the food is.... I was begging for someone to shoot me. Anyway, pork loin was my big friend (1.99 lb. av. price) and the fact that other nations consider dark chicken to be the premier meat, and we managed to do it. The skinless/boneless chicken breast thing is a relatively new concept. Your people will probably be just as happy with dark chicken, especially if you include some nicely browned skin. Give them some stuffing, mashed potatoes and well made gravy and they will love you. I also used to make a mean Swiss steak that they loved. Won't bore anyone here anymore, but I do know how to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. If you want some of my tricks, feel free to P.M. me. Best of luck.


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## billrchef (Oct 11, 2009)

I really understand your problems here. As district chef for a global corporation I repeat these things to our chefs regularly. We have ppl costs,food cost%,compliance purchaseing,periferal cost factors, menue planning guide lines& systems, ect. We have everything on spread sheets, formulas, and tracking documentation. We also have those on the upper end of the chain declairing thet we "must do more with less". Lower purchaseing, lower labor cost, and higher sales and proffits.

 However what they don`t allow us to do is what chefs do best...To be creative, imaginative, and use common sense. This can be extremly tough, but we quietly make "end runs" around these policies.

  We buy fewer items in larger quantities, and creatively use them in difrent ways. Use less whole meat entrees and more blending with fillers, starches and vegetables,Things like that.

 Purchaseing power growes with quantity. Global corps. buying thousands of cases, get better deals than smaller ones, But creativity in what you do is still the key to profit margins.

 the simple things are to do what you do best.

 do as much in house " from scratch" things as you can.

 follow portions very tight, use everything and waste nothing, keep purchaseing and inventories low. track waste an overages to prevent future loss, and watch for in house theft.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

BillRchef said:


> Use less whole meat entrees and more blending with fillers, starches and vegetables,


How much panade can you put in meatloaf before you can't call it meatloaf anymore?  j/k.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

kuan said:


> How much panade can you put in meatloaf before you can't call it meatloaf anymore?  j/k


Just call it "meatloaf style"???


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## chefboy2160 (Oct 13, 2001)

kuan said:


> How much panade can you put in meatloaf before you can't call it meatloaf anymore?  j/k.


Sadly a whole lot! Textured vegetable protein (TVP) is a very big filler in many of the heat and serve items available to institutions as it keeps the costs down but still provides acceptable levels of nutrition.Also Soy has hit the big time scene as another filler in ground protein pre-formed institutional products. TVP is useful in the fact that it absorbs the flavor of the actual meat products used and helps to retain moisture so that increased holding times will not result in as dry a product as a natural meat product would. This in part helps operators with low motivation and skill level employees to at least be able to serve something that is edible.

I used to have a similar Job to BillRchef where I traveled over a lot of the US trouble shooting kitchens in this industry as well as my own main property and some of the food I witnessed being served was very bad to put it nicely. Also when you walk into that kind of kitchen the sanitation and moral of the places were always on a very low scale.

It makes getting older look real scary.

Have a great day, Doug...............


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## oldschool1982 (Jun 27, 2006)

3.75 per resident day. WOW!!!!! I thought that 5.00 was low and that was in 2002. It's amazing what the folks that operate a facility will try and get away with. I think if more people that used these facilities for their loved ones realized how little of the in some cases 15,000 a month goes toward the resident......they'd have a sh!tfit. The profit margines can be staggering but don't worry about the dignity of the residents. If Soylent Green were a reality.....they'd be trying to pass that as a respectable budget for food.

Chefboy, I have experience with a Retirement community that was only light assisted living. The company had other properties that had more intense care like Altzhiemers ward with the lockdown procedures and all but never did that.

I guess you just have to get real creative. I have an old menu tucked away somewhere and I think I might have an old food cost sheet. PM me your email and I'll send it off. Like I mentioned above.....it's from 2002 and costs have gone nutz since but it'll give you a good base to maybe use as some leverage with Sysco. Unfortunately Sysco is the AntiChrist of the food service industry..... and if they are your only source your flu-cked but that's JMHPO.  

For the record.......I was just commenting to the DW the other day........Ya know what's different about the current economic issues when compared to what we endured during the 70's? It's the fact that businesses and Corps aren't just trying to stay afloat and understand that profits will probably fall short. They are doing everything they can to not only keep them at the same margine but also increase them by double digits and the fact you have only an insulting 3.75 a day to feed a human being in the USA only proves this. I am far from a B.H.L. but I can't understand how one person can set themselves down to a table and eat 10X that that in a single meal and then expect the residents of their Properties to survive the whole day on the same amount.


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## ldavis (Jun 25, 2017)

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## bonnj (Apr 30, 2017)

Very good thread. My experience -- if you have to buy from Sysco, you have to buy from Sysco. There could be innumerable reasons why, or simply one. Each case is case specific. However, the option -- there's two possibilities -- one, you can walk. Two, you can be the rare exception that fights City Hall and brings about change. It happens, but it's rare.

The have to buy from Sysco only routine can happen by default, but more likely it happens because two high up people -- perhaps the highest -- bent their elbows, plays the links, shook hands, and who knows what else, with each other. LOL. If you or your immediate supervisor can bring about change -- go for it! Do it! But, it's rare. Sysco is the biggest bully in the industry.


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