# for breads with no yeast... resting times and fats and temp



## chalkdust (Feb 18, 2009)

for a bread levened with baking powder but also containing fat such as butter lard or shortening especially, as well as oil or ghee (for middle eastern or indian or trinidad style breads, nan roti and pratha) and for breads containing no oil at all....

i wouldl ike to know how the science/theories work for how long to rest dough after first kneading, and then if it is to be shapped or rolled out, how much to rest then

alsoi I nedd to know how the temperature works

here is a particular rexipe in question for a roast bake made with wholewheat and white flour

it has butter in it and when making biscuits or pastry u want to keep the solid fat like butter or lard or shortening cold

when do you want the butter to melt or soften... ever?



what about when butter or ghee is used in a bread like a plain sada roti (no yeast, usually but some cooks add a pinch, usually 1 ts of baking powder per cup of flour)or nan (nan usually has yeast so it msut be kept warm) or a layered pratha roti (east indian and trinidadian and guyanese flat breads)

so here is the recipe it is from the trinigourmet website (trinigourmet dot com) under "wholewheat bake)

i wnat to know why i am resting, how long i am resting, what temperature i am resting at and why..


THANKS


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## chalkdust (Feb 18, 2009)

what are the thoughts


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

You've got a lot of questions.

Fat makes a difference in texture, but doesn't do that much one way or the other to leaveners like baking soda and baking powder. 

Baking soda and powder work by producing carbon dioxide gas. The gas creates bubbles in the dough. If the gas dissipates and the bubbles are left intact, they'll fill with air. In either case, when the dough is baked, the carbon dioxide or air expands and leavens (rises) the bread. 

Baking soda produces gas only when it comes in contact with acid. Single acting baking powders are usually baking soda mixed with a dry acid, and they produce gas as soon as the soda and acid mix in liquid. Double acting baking powder combines two gas making components and a dry acid. One of the gas makers is activated with liquid and the other with heat. 

Soda and powder leavened doughs are fragile. If you completely collapse the bubbles, they will not hold enough air to expand and leaven. So, these doughs should be treated relatively gently after they're mixed. If you use a heavy hand rolling and forming, the breads will not only stay flat but will be tough.

The fat, whether butter, lard or vegetable shortening will warm and soften when it's cut in, when the dough is patted or rolled out, and when the breads are cut or formed. In other words, handling always adds heat and always softens the cold fat. To a large extent, colder fat makes for flakier pastry. 

These breads get a lot more handling than properly made biscuits (by "biscuits," I refer to American style biscuits), so they stay flatter than biscuits with similar amounts of flour and liquids. The effect of the shortening in these sorts of flat breads is to make them more pliable.

Where? You didn't give a link or a URL address.

Sometimes you rest before formation in order to let the fat chill and the glutens relax which results in a flakier and more tender product. It's generally a bad idea to rest soda or powder leavened doughs too long because the reaction poops out and the dough collapses. However with flat breads, a thin pliable bread may be what is desired.

Hope this helps,
BDL


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## chalkdust (Feb 18, 2009)

thanks

this was my first post and I could not put a url

here is the recipe

http://www.trinigourmet.com/index.php/wholewheat-bake/

its just a bread. in trinidad they call this type of bread bake and it can even be deep fried or sweet with coconut.

basically in trinidad u have roti which is any bread from india, puri, dal puri, sada roti (chapati), naan, dosti roti, bara (barrah) etc

and u have bake

bake could be classic white or wheat breead

more commonly bake is a flat circular loaf such as this one either white, wholewheat or with coconut

fry bake is a roll/biscuit/dumpling that is fried, it is light and not greasy and reminds me of a dinner roll or biscuit.... (it varies in style)

lastly u have the ciabatta which is rising in popularity i tihnk because of a few resourceful italian immigrants....

then all the english rolls, scones and sweet breads/sweet buns, and the sweet breads such as mango, bnanana or coconut...

and theres more


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## chalkdust (Feb 18, 2009)

so with the above recipe

should the dough rest in the refrigerator?

i assume the standard trini bake is a "european" style of bread?

its just a round loaf.

it can be risen with powders/soda or yeast...



do you think resting dough for an indian bread should be done in a refrigerator?


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

It's generally good technique to get powder and soda leavened doughs into the oven as soon as possible.

However, I'm not familiar with this bread generally or with the whole wheat variant. So I'm going to limit my advice to following the recipe.

Why not follow the directions the first time, resting on the counter since the refrigerator isn't specified, and see how it works out? Then if there are problems with getting too litle leavening we'll deal with it after they happen.

Try and use a light touch with the rolling pin, you'll want all the rise you can get. 

What kind of baking powder do you use in Trinidad? Single or double acting? Double acting is more prevalent in most of the US, but there are individuals who prefer single and maybe some local regions as well. 

BDL


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## chalkdust (Feb 18, 2009)

They use both types of leavening in trinidad. I have also seen stout or beer used to leaven bread in certain recipes.


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