# Manufacturing Cream



## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

This morning I stopped at one of the local Peet's for a cuppa joe, and to my chagrin, there was no cream on the counter to add to the coffee. There was soy milk, half-and-half, whole milk, and low-fat milk. I guess that's the typical Berkeley sensibility. But I wanted cream, so I asked the guy behind the counter for some and he pulled out a 1/2 gallon container of _manufacturing cream _produced by one of the local dairies. OK! It was real cream, but it didn't taste and feel like some cream I had recently. A friend buys Safeway cream, and it has a thicker mouth feel and doesn't taste as vibrant - it tastes sort of "dead" or almost spoiled. I've noticed a marked difference in the taste of milk and cream from the top rated local dairies and the commercial supermarket stuff. Coments?

Anyway, back to the manufacturing cream. Is it any different than regular heavy cream, or whipping cream, and if so, in what ways? Thanks!


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## jbd (Mar 17, 2008)

it has a higher % of fat than heavy cream. The fat content is over 40%


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Well, I did a little research and discovered that the Manufacturing Cream that I enjoyed this morning contained only cream, and the ingredient list for the Safeway Lucerne brand shows that it contains cream, polysorbate 80, carrageenan, and diglycerides. Sheesh! It never ceases to amaze me what garbage goes into the typical commercial foods we are sold. I also found out that these ingredients are in other brands of cream.

Why screw around with such a simple, staple item as cream? Based on my own tastings, the extra ingredients just degrade the taste and mess with the natural texture and mouth feel of the product.

JBD - thanks for the explanation of manufacturing cream.


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

All supermarket cream is homogenized and contain those ingredients and others like xantham gum, locust bean gum, gum arabic and more.

The simple answer is for stability and prevent the product from separating.

40% fat or more cream doesn't separate as much when stored and holds together after homogenizing.

Luc H.


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Along with the fat content, take a look and see if the brands you prefer are single pasteurized. I try to stay away from the ultra-pasteurized cream.

dan


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

I'll have to look into that. I'm not sure if that's correct, at least here in California with some of our premium brands. Unfortunately, many brands don't list their ingredients on their web sites - a trip to the market is in order, or at least a couple of phone calls or emails. <sigh>

*Edit:* OK, I found three brands of whipping cream which do not contain the carrageenan, polysorbate 80, various diglycerides, and the gums you mentioned. What is interesting is that one brand makes a pasteurized and an ultrapasteurized whipping cream, and the ultra pasteurized contains carrageenan while the regular pasteurized does not. The ultrapasteurized does not contain any of the other ingredients we are discussing.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

I don't like ultrapasteurized anything ... I know at least one brand that isn't, and I _think_ there are a couple of others as well.

Thanks for the heads-up.


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

Pasteurization and homogenization is not the same thing by the way.

Pasteurization has nothing to do with gum addition but homogenization does.
If a product is not homogenized then adding gums is useless.

Luc H.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Yes Luc, I know the difference. All the cream I mentioned was homogenized. It just seemed odd that the ultrapasteurized had the carrageenan and the regular pasteurized didn't.


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

the not so simple answer.....
carrageenan and other gums are added from thickness and mouthfeel.
It helps in whipping volume (in the case of heavy cream).
It also helps to hold the milkfat emulsion better under heating conditions like when cooking in sauces.
It makes the cream also more opaque for creaming/whitening coffee and even reduces oil drops from rising on the surface of the coffee.

Essentially manufacturers choose the gums and proportions to suit their clientele which also means to go without for purist like yourself. Whatever sells and niche markets are more profitable. 

Luc H.


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## penguin (Aug 30, 2008)

Hi Shel, 

I avoid eating any ultra-pasteurized dairy along with carrageenan. I too am surprised that pasteurized heavy cream has no additives like carrageenan it in.

Emily


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Well, as long as I can get the good quality cream, organic or otherwise, and not have to get the additives, I'm happy. I've not noticed oil drops rising to the top of my coffee with the "purist" version of the cream - I'll have to pay attention. Thanks!


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

As Luc pointed out, it's probably the purist version


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

I have no problem with thickeners such as carageenan, xanthan or other vegetable-derived gums, unless I hear of a reason to be concerned. If taste of a product is affected in a way that I don't like, then of course I care. 

I think these stabilizers/emulsifiers serve a good purpose and make some things, such as ice cream, better sometimes.


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## charente16 (Sep 18, 2008)

Well I live over here in France and buying decent cream is impossible! It is impossible to whip and has zero flavour. When I asked local French people about it they tend to buy Chantilly in cans!!!!
My solution was to search on ebay for a cream making attachment for my Kenwood chef. It couldn't be easier. Melt some butter with some milk. Pour into the machine which turns it into cream within a couple of minutes and then just add a little sugar to taste. Whilst not exactly slimming there is no risk of any nasty additives. Highly recommended alternative and the taste difference is huge. I now have all my French mates requesting batches of cream when they come over, that and traditional English trifle which is also a firm favourite!!


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

We'll just have to disagree. I don't care if an additive is good, bad, or neutral - as far as I'm concerned it doesn't belong in a natural product. In most instances it's a cheap fix. For generations ice cream was just fine without gums, stabilizers, and additives. Now these additives make it "better." I don't think so.

What the heck is wrong with eating things in their natural state? Thank goodness there's still a choice, so you can eat your additive laden and overly processed commercially produced ice cream and I can eat a more natural product.


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## penguin (Aug 30, 2008)

Shel- I couldn't agree more! Glad to know there is someone else out there that thinks the same way as I do.

Happy cooking.
Emily


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

One of the concerns I have with additive laden food is that we will forget what real food tastes like. In many instances many people already have. The food they eat is loaded with various chemicals, additives, fillers, and whatnot, that the true taste of the food is compromised or masked.

Since OY brought up ice cream, I keep thinking back to a test that Cook's Illustrated did on vanilla ice creams. The winning ice creams used emulsifiers and stabilizers to get the texture and taste that satisfied the testers. The test was conducted pretty much on supermarket brands, which, IMO, are at best mediocre. It would have been interesting to see how the results would have been had the test been conducted with some of the ice creams made in small shops by people dedicated to making a quality, natural product.

Unfortunately, economics plays a big role in what we eat. It's cheaper and more expeditious to just crank out dreck than it is to spend time making a quality product. However, at least here in the San Francisco Bay Area. and, from what I read, in several other places around the US, there is something of a backlash forming. More and more people are getting out of the supermarket aisles and down to their farmers' markets, and finding butchers and ranchers who are producing the quality food that they crave, and frankly, that our society and environment needs.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

I forgot to ask: What is the good purpose these stabilizers and emulsifiers provide, and in what way do they make some things better, and by better I mean compared to a well made product without the additives?


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

.... wow.... i'm speechless.... no good cream in France... I thought that's where cream came from...


Shel,
I completely understand and agree with your point - additives are in the majority of the foods we buy. I'm even suspicious of reading labels very often because I'm quite sure the food contains even MORE additives than what they list - only there is no law invented yet to make them do so.

The problem with the additives (and I'm primarily speaking about high fructose corn syrup here) is that since its "invention" in the 1970's it has been used to spike all common foods. Foods you wouldn't imagine needed added sweetness like canned vegetable broth... ?? These additives change the flavor of food while simultaneously causing you to be addicted to them. At this point we have to relearn how to taste food. I've recently switched to organic peanut butter with no additives and I gotta tell ya it's not easy to get used to the flavor. I'm trying to tell myself "this is what it's SUPPOSED to taste like so get used to it" but it's hard when you're used to skippy. And it's not just peanut butter, it's everything!

Now couple that dilemma with the fact that "organic" "whole" and other endearing terminology is officially a fad that is being capitalized on and we all know what happens when we try to capitalize on a good thing - we get carried away with it and ruin it. The law of supply and demand suggests that we'll be paying a lot more money for good food until all of us are on board. I just don't trust it completely. The prices are outrageous when they should be LESS and you have to have some kind of "special person" pass to even enter these granola stores.

Things are so different now. Not long ago you only had to be aware of calories, fat and fiber. Now we have to check if it's organic, if the animals were treated well, what form of shipment was used for our produce, and suddenly we have to know the meanings of all those words on labels that I can't pronounce. Don't get me wrong - this is important for us to do and I'm glad we're finally waking up as a nation. But taking on this sort of thinking does not feel natural at first and it's making me a little paranoid. I just wish there was a simpler way to make the adjustments.


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

Vegetable gums are one of the few additives I don't mind. I agree with you guys (Shel, Penguin, Mapiva) in general, for almost all "additives", although even that is not always a clear-cut word. Is salt an additive? In what foods is sugar an additive, and in what foods not? 

Is ascorbic or citric acid an additive and/or preservative? Lemons and other fruits in their natural state contain these exact compounds. See where I'm going? Is granulated white sugar a processed food?


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

Additives = longer self life.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Longer shelf life? Or longer self life? The 2 are very different things. If we all just stuck to eating food that had short shelf life we'd be better off. Now excuse me as I open a can of tuna fish that I bought last march and was caught how long before that?


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## penguin (Aug 30, 2008)

Mapiva, I avoid most additives and it has been interesting to see dinner guests response to my cooking. 70% LOVE the dinner. They eat and eat and eat and can't stop talking about the food. They love the taste and enjoy the pure ingredients. 

The other 30% eat their meal and don't say a word. It's different than their can of cream of chicken soup so they don't enjoy it. . . It's a different taste and I agree with you there is a learning process where you have to relearn what food is supposed to taste like.

As for the peanut butter, we switched to organic a few months ago and my husband also said "is this what peanut butter is supposed to taste like??? It's really peanutty." We've been eating it and hoping we would get used to it. Just yesterday he opened a bottle of Skippy from the basement and gagged on his sandwich. The peanut butter we loved for years now tastes like crisco with a light peanut flavoring. 

Emily


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

It seems that most of the additives are there to change texture as well. "Real peanut butter" seems really grainy too me and there's oil on the top that has to be reworked in. It's mostly the texture that has me thrown off. It's not just that it's everything. Real mashed potatoes compared to the boxed stuff, canned mushrooms vs. real, boxed cake vs. homemade, the list never ends.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

I've not purchased jarred peanut butter in about ten years, maybe more, and stopped buying Skippy-type peanut butter in 1979, preferring non-hydrogenated oil nothing added peanut butter. The only peanut better I eat now is fresh ground, organic that I grind myself either in the machines in any one of several organic groceries or sometimes at home. The difference in taste, even compared to jarred organic peanut butter, is substantial - much better and more like real peanuts. I don't use salted peanuts. In addition, there's no oil floating on top of this freshly ground peanut butter. I don't know why that is. Perhaps because the grind is a little coarser or because there's no oil added to the final product, as there is with some peanut butters.

Every now and then, when at a friend's house, I may take a taste of regular peanut butter - Skippy, Jiffy, whatever, or one of the peanut butters that are more natural, without the hydrogenated oils, sugar, and less heavily salted. Ugh! I can see why a lot of people eat that sugared stuff as we, as a society, have become accustomed to the taste of sugar in so many prepared foods, and the sugared-hydrogenated-salted peanut butters taste like what we have come to expect. These are the ingredients found in one of the commercial supermarket brands, Jiffy I think:


> _Peanuts, corn syrup solids, sugar and soy protein, contains _
> _two percent or less of: fully hydrogenated vegetable oils _
> _(rapeseed and soybean), salt, mono- and diglycerides, _
> _molasses, niacinamide, folic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride,_
> ...


Try grinding your own peanut butter some time and see how it compares with the jarred stuff stuff you're buying.

BTW, you might find this  Natural Peanut Butter Hand Mixer, this Peanut Butter Mixer or this Peanut Butter Mixer of some use.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Salt and sugar that is added to a food is - an additive. As far as I'm concerned, those ingredients are always additives.


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

Shelf life :blush: so I can't type :lol:


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

So then, 99% of ice cream has an additive-sugar.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Not exactly. Ice cream is a compound concoction, and sugar or another sweetener is needed to make ice cream. Peanut butter, otoh, is just peanuts, and suger would be an additive in that case. 

What's needed to make ice cream? Milk or cream, a sweetener such as sugar, flavoring (such as vanilla), sometimes eggs ... carrageenan, xanthan gum, propylene glycol, polysorbate 80, eye of newt are not needed to make ice cream and they are, therefore, additives.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

There is. Michael Pollan said it in just seven words, "_Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants_."

http://www.michaelpollan.com/article.php?id=87

Try not to buy food that has labels, or at least that doesn't have labels with polysyllabic words that require a dictionary or a chemistry degree to understand.


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

I guess you win. Don't let me bother you with your different meanings according to context. Is it possible that you aren't purer than I am?


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## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

Check out the Slow Food movement if you are not already aware of it.

Organizations - Slow Food

They embrace some of the food philosophies expressed in this thread.

If I wasn't such an old grouch and liked being around kids more, I'd probably volunteer for their Taste Education program for elementery schools.

mjb.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

There was a big Slow Food Nation event in San Francisco Aug 29 - Sept 1 and it appears that similar events have taken place worldwide

http://slowfoodnation.org/ It was almost impossible to be living in the SF Bay Area and not be aware of the event ... and to have been aware of the movement these past years.


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## carolylancaster (Feb 24, 2012)

Where can I find real, unadulterated double and single cream in Montreal or Westmount?


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## shire (Jul 10, 2014)

An ancient thread but it raises the issue of oil drops.  If you are still here, does anyone know where and why oil drops occur?

I have raw cream which I suspect is actually manufacturing cream, i.e., it's almost butter, and oil drops are present when it's added to coffee.

I'm leaning strongly towards adjusting my Milky Cream Separator so as to thin the cream but I'm not sure how far to thin it.

How thick do you like your cream?  Isn't manufacturing cream really too thick to utilize in many if not most applications, e.g., pouring over fruit or cereal, etc.?

Thank you.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

I use manufacturing cream for any heavy cream application.  Have never experienced these "oil drops".


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## mikelm (Dec 23, 2000)

I've never encountered "manufacturing cream."  

Is it available in any retail setting?  I really don't need a 55-gallon drum of it, but I'd like the chance to play around with an ingredient that sounds to be significantly different from the regular commercial products.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Mike


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

In my area it is produced/marketed by Alta Dena Dairy in half gallons, and sold at Smart & Final stores.


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## grande (May 14, 2014)

@shire, fat that isn't homogonized into your cream welt melt when added to your coffee.


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## shire (Jul 10, 2014)

Grande said:


> @shire, fat that isn't homogonized into your cream welt melt when added to your coffee.


My cream is raw. Nothing is homogenized. So, are you saying the oil drops are melted fat from my raw cream?

And my raw cream comes from Jersey cows which have a very high butterfat content. I wonder if thinner cream, i.e., something less than manufacturing cream but still raw cream produces oil drops?


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## grande (May 14, 2014)

As long you still have those globs of fat it will


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## shire (Jul 10, 2014)

Grande said:


> As long you still have those globs of fat it will


I was thinking 'globules.'

'A small globe or ball'

Are those globs controllable or don't they just occur naturally as a component of raw cream?


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## grande (May 14, 2014)

Thats the natural fat from the milk that would theoretically become butter. I guess you could control it by using lower fat milk? I don't work with raw cream but can buy heavy cream i have tto let warm up before i open because the fat clogs the bottle- thats where i've seen this before.


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

Maybe a science perspective will help answer the oil drops question:

Background info (long answer): raw whole milk is comprised of water, lactose (sugar), water loving proteins, fat loving proteins and both water & fat loving proteins.

when left standing raw milk separates to cream and milk.  The cream is on top because oil/fat is lighter than water particularly water weighted with sugar (i.e. lower fat milk at the bottom).

The natural use of milk is to feed an infant a somewhat homogenous blend of nutrients (carbohydrates, protein and fat) and calories to sustain growth (yes also hormones and antigens which are essentially a class of proteins as well).  The evolution of mammary milk production was not meant for milk to be stored but to be consummed as needed (i.e. suckling).

That said, when milk is excreted, fat loving proteins englobe oil/fat droplets into micelles (tiny microscopic beads of fat).  These micelles can somewhat remain in solution because fat&water loving proteins act as emulsifiers (soap)... like dissolving oil with soap when washing dishes.  The purpose of this is so that fat can be easily dispersed in the milk for nutrient consistency as consumed.

quick answer: Cream skimmed off the top of milk has large micelles that coalesce into larger micelles of fat and can grow to become visible oil drops. When heated proteins lose their ability to emulsify and bind to fat hence why oil drops often appear on top of hot coffee. Homogenizing cream or milk mechanically (violently) breaks down the size of the micelles to the point they don't float to the top anymore which can minimize oil drops from appearing. Homogenized whole milk does not seperate.  When gums are added (carrageenan, locust bean and guar gum) it thickens the water that further prevents fat from rising.  Fat loving ingredients (polysorbate 80 and mono and di glycerides) makes the fat more liquid and easily to remain in suspension.  the purpose is to prevent the micelles from breakdown and releasing its fat to coalesce into oil drops when heated.

When cream is slowly beaten (particularly using cool temperature), the fat micelles merge, solidify and become butter fat (i.e. butter).

Hope this helps?

Luc H.


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## shire (Jul 10, 2014)

Luc_H said:


> Maybe a science perspective will help answer the oil drops question:
> 
> Background info (long answer): raw whole milk is comprised of water, lactose (sugar), water loving proteins, fat loving proteins and both water & fat loving proteins.
> 
> ...


Most excellent! If presented the choice of cream types which would you opt for:

· *Whipping cream:* made specifically for whipping, contains 30-36% milk fat. Often contains stabilizers and emulsifiers to ensure it keeps and holds its form when being whipped.

· *Raw Heavy cream:* also called heavy whipping cream, has a fat content between 36-40%.

· *Raw Manufacturing cream:* has a fat content over 40%, and is generally not available in retail stores. It is primarily used in professional food service.

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SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/> </w:LatentStyles></xml><![endif][if gte mso 10]><![endif]

And if you prefer the manufacturing cream that requires that you use a spoon as opposed to being able to pour the cream, why isn't that a negative? Wouldn't you prefer cream that is pourable as opposed to cream that requires a spoon to dispense?

Thank you.


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

If I was faced with many choices of creams, I would choose according to the intended use, look and feel.

examples:

whipping creams (retail) with additives are stable in coffee, taste ok, and whip up stiff with less fat.

Raw heavy cream is great to pour over berries and soups

Raw manufacturing cream whips up stiff and has tons of flavour and mouthfeel, also perfect to make crème fraîche.

Luc H.


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