# Shopping Japan Knives



## Heinrich (Jun 23, 2018)

Hello
I am newbie but would like to buy some knives from Japan. 
This question has been posted lots of times I know.

It would be nice to have a overview of some knife-makers and their characteristics.
Been reading lots of threads but really. 

If you have a link of a thread which gives some hints please post it.
Thank you very much for your answer.

Heinrich


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## Heinrich (Jun 23, 2018)

Like to add knives should be each 100 to 120$


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## Baba Ghanoush (Jan 29, 2018)

What sorts of knives are you looking for? Purpose? Size? Shape? Material: Carbon or stainless or perhaps semistainless?
kitchenknifeforums.com is a good source for kitchen knife knowledge and so is messerforum.net if you by any chance read German. Good European based online cutlery shops I have bought from are Japanese Natural Stones in Denmark, Cleancut in Sweden and Knives and tools in the Netherlands.


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## galley swiller (May 29, 2013)

What country do you live in? Availability of knives is hugely dependent on country of residence. Until we know that, anything we discuss will be meaningless.

Also, what are your personal sharpening skills and your current sharpening equipment? 

GS


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## jasimo (Jun 23, 2018)

Hello Heinrich,
As a professional chef we spend up to 300 usd on knifes each, like a pair of shoes, more you spend; they will last longer.
As said in before posts, what do you want to perform from your knife, a good 9 inch chefs knife will work for most applications, 6inch chefs knife and 3inch will suit all needs in a basic kitchen, boning, fish filletings and salmon knife only in a pro kitchen plus a semi serrated pastry knife. I have a mix of japanese, german and ceramic, japanese knives are very sharp but brittle, damascus are hand made and perfect for light applications, high layer folds over 100 are expensive an used only for delicate cuts, a hammered 37 leaf will be best for you, a hard core hrc62 core layer knife is good as well for heavy work like chopping small bones, look at these web sites; http://ioshen.co.uk/about-i-o-shen-knives/ www.hocho-knife.com/


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## Heinrich (Jun 23, 2018)

Hello everyone 
Thank very much for your answer. Hope you all a great day. 
Yes some more specs would be useful. Mea culpa. 

I eat mostly vegetables. Cook at home. Don't mind to order in Japan or States. I would like to have Japanese handles. 

I would like to have 3 to 4 knives. 
One gyuto or nakiri, santoku, deba, pairing or petty. 

Regards 
Heinrich


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

From Jasimo:
" damascus are hand made and perfect for light applications, high layer folds over 100 are expensive an used only for delicate cuts, a hammered 37 leaf will be best for you"

??????????????

You are after all speaking of faux damascus, as you mention a "core layer" and which is strictly ornamental. The layer numbers mean nothing in terms of performance. A thick blade could have a dozen layers, a thin blade a hundred or more, making layer numbers meaningless. "Hand made" is another question mark, many faux damascus knives are made from mill-rolled FD stock with die stamped basic profile and cross-section profile shaped by stock removal on automated machines rather than [hand] forging.

Never heard of IO Shen knives, never heard a knife enthusiast mention them, all I can say is the website does sounds like a number I've seen for allegedly Japanese knives that are actually Chinese made knives of dubious quality.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Welcome to Cheftalk Heinrich. Since you are on a budget, and will likely also need sharpening stones, firstly consider limiting your initial purchase to one or two knives, like a gyuto and maybe also a petty. You don't need a fancy parer, or santoku which the gyuto makes redundant, and deba is a fish fileting knife and expensive as the cheap ones aren't worth having.


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## Baba Ghanoush (Jan 29, 2018)

Rick Alan gives good advice, I rather have one good gyuto and a cheap paring knife than 3 to 4 mediocre knives! I use my 240 mm gyuto 80%-90% of the time, the serrated breadknife also gets some daily exercise and my paring knife, slicer and deboning knife also see some action from time to time. However my santoku, petty and 210 chef's sit idle in the block. Of the top of my head I can't seriously think of anything I rather use a santoku or nakiri for than my 240 mm gyuto. I really could use a good slicer, but I spend my good slicer money on a couple of big round chosera whetstones - don't regret that decision, having really, really good sharpening equipment is much better than owning a multitude of dull knives.


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## Heinrich (Jun 23, 2018)

Hello Rick 
Hello Baba
Thank you for your advises. Yes you are right. So rather spend 250 to 300$ for a gyuto and the rest smaller.
Will have a look. Can you advise on which ones. Perhabs Beginning from 150$ onwards. Even I should order from
Japan or USA ok for me.
Regards
Heinrich


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## galley swiller (May 29, 2013)

Heinrich, what country are you ordering from for delivery to? That is a critical question, since each individual country can impose import regulations or there can be significant commercial agreements on particular lines/brands which can also restrict access/importations. Only by knowing where you are can anyone give you good and accurate information.

Rick Alan is also right that you are also going to need sharpening stones, if you don't already have sharpening skills and sharpening gear. This cannot be emphasized enough. While good knives resist dulling with use longer than poor quality blades, all knives dull with use. That's just reality.

Also, by knowing where you are, we can then also comment on what type of cutting boards are available. A good cutting board can significantly slow down edge dulling. However, because of weight and shipping cost considerations, good quality cutting boards are almost invariably locally shipped.

GS


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## Heinrich (Jun 23, 2018)

Hello GS
I am in Switzerland. Hope regulations do not hinder me to get such knives

Thought to go for a Masakage Koishi's or a Kohetsu Aogami Super Gyuto what are your thought's?

Regards

Heinrich


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## Baba Ghanoush (Jan 29, 2018)

Well Heinrich, there are loads and loads of knives in the price range from $150 to $300, so we better start limiting down the insurmountable choices by establishing some preferences to narrow down the field to a more manageable amount of knives.
A way to do that is to determine what kind of steel you prefer your new gyuto to be made of. Basically there are carbon, stainless, semistainless and powder steel. Carbon steel has been around for centuries and is the most low-tech kind of steels. Good carbon steels are often cheaper than comparably good stainless steels (good in terms of maximum edge taking and edge retention) and as a general rule carbon steel takes and edge faster than stainless steel. However carbon steels are not all equal. For instance White Steel (shirogami) takes an edge faster than Blue Steel (aogami). Aogami Super (AS) triumphs over Shirogami when it comes to edge holding and wear resistance, but Shirogami sharpens faster and takes a keener edge. Shirogami 1# takes a keener edge than Shirogami 2#, but Shirogami 1# is also more brittle than Shirogami 2#. The flip side of all carbon steels is reactivity (oxidation), some carbons are very reactive some are less, but they all react to exposure to moisture - especially acidic moisture from foodstuff such as onions or lemons. The benign form of reaction is patina (a harmless and in fact protective discoloration of the blade), and the malignant form is rust. A way to deal (partly) with the reactivity of carbon steel is to wrap it in stainless steel using the sanmai- technology. This will protect the majority of the blade, but you will of course still need to take good care of the unprotected part of the blade. That means rinsing the blade in hot water immediately after use and drying carefully - some folks even use a damp towel to dry the knife in between intervals of cutting during more extensive use. If you are fine with that, an AS stainless clad blade is not a bad choice. About the two knives which have caught your interest: The Koishi is pretty curvy, so this blade will be good for rock chopping but less good for straight up and down chopping and push cutting. The Kohetsu seems less curvy (hard to determine from pictures) and thus better for straight up and down chopping and push cutting. Both knives are very thin behind the edge which maximizes the practical sharpness, but will also punish bad technique (chipping of the edge). I have no hands on experience with either knife, but there are many reviews and comments about the knives from people who do.

About the koishi:
https://www.chefknivestogoforum.com/masakage-koishi-240-gyuto-review-t10522.html

About the Kohetsu:
https://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?126141-Gyuto-Review-Kohetsu-AS-210-mm
https://cheftalk.com/threads/looking-for-a-laser.90727/


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## galley swiller (May 29, 2013)

Heinrich, thanks for letting us know where you are. Now, we can intelligently respond.

Both of the knives you ask about come from Chef Knives To Go, which is based in the United States. Please be advised that the free shipping offer likely does not apply to Switzerland. You should very carefully check with them about shipping to Switzerland *before* making an order.

In addition, both knives use Aogami Super as their core steel. This is a carbon steel, which is not stainless and the face of the blade will be reactive until it can be properly patina'ed. You can force a patina with hot vinegar, but then the edge must be re-sharpened on both sides afterwards with a few light strokes on a fine grit (5000 or higher) waterstone to expose the immediate edge again.

Both blades will also likely have an asymmetric edge, where one side of the edge will have a more acute angle than the other side of the edge. This is common with good quality Japanese blades and allows the knife to be chosen specifically to more closely match whether the final user is right-handed or left-handed.

Also common with many quality Japanese knives is that the edge provided is not of high quality. This is because the tradition in Japan is for each chef to sharpen his or her own knife to the way that he or she is trained or prefers. That works well where Japanese chefs go through an apprenticeship involving several years, including how to properly sharpen their knives. It doesn't work quite so well if you don't know how to properly sharpen.

If I were choosing a blade for someone with no experience with Japanese knives, or with sharpening, I would probably recommend a stainless steel knife with a symmetric edge, about 240mm to 270mm in length. The candidate I have in mind is the Mac BK-100. It's a blade with a symmetric 255mm edge, and Mac's "Original" steel (which is made by Hitachi). MAC International doesn't list any sellers in Switzerland, though there are sellers in several European Union nations. You can contact Mac at their Japanese office at http://mactheknife.co.jp/en/contact.html

You will need several waterstones. First, you will need a fine grit stone of at least 3000 to 5000 grit. This will be the stone you will use for very light sharpening, to maintain an already sharpened edge. Next, you will need a medium grit stone of somewhere between 800 to 1200 grit. This will help you when you need to re-sharpen your blade beyond what the fine grit stone can do. Finally, when an edge gets a chip or is otherwise damaged, you will need a coarse stone with a grit of 400 or so to grind away to form a new edge and to thin the blade. Each of these stones needs to be a minimum of at least 20cm long by 5cm wide.

I would also strongly recommend getting a Wedgek angle guide system, with the full range of angles from 10 degrees to 20 degrees. If the wedges are then filled in on the back and then mounted on a stick, you will have an excellent way to feel the precise angles you need to sharpen at. These angle guides are available through various Amazon national sites.

For on-line tutorials, watch Jon Broida of Japanese Knife Imports, on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/user/JKnifeImports

For a cutting board, I would suggest an end grain birch wood board of a minimum of at least 30cm by 45cm by 5 cm thick. Birch is an excellent material and is likely the best choice of available wood in Europe. Do not try to import from the United States. The shipping costs will be horrible.

Hope that helps.

Galley Swiller


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## Heinrich (Jun 23, 2018)

Hello Baba
Hello Galley
Thank you very much for your precious answers. I start to realize that this is an art and science. With lots of wisdom if you want doing it right. Like having a race car and be everybody and once. From Designer to engineer to driver. 

As newbie stainless might be better. But these two knives seem pretty interesting. Still not sure which ones to pick. 

After that the proper stones and cutting board is mandatory. 

Greetings 
Heinrich 
Wish you great days ahead.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Many of the knives cktg carries are of dubious quality, shipping and vat would be huge also.

Japanese Natural stones is based in your area, they have a great selection of knives and stones, but not so many as to make your head spin.

Knives and Stones is another that carries a convenient assortment of exceptional knives. their Munitoshi and Itonomon knives are very popular, excellent performers, and reasonably priced.

Japanese Chef Knives has a dizzying collection of knives, but their Deep Impact series are reasonably priced and has gotten some praise.

Your board does not have to break the bank, edge-grain boards are fine and cost much less than a decent end-grain board. The soft synthetics like the High Soft are just as good as end-grain wood, perhaps better, and also much less money.


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## jasimo (Jun 23, 2018)

rick alan said:


> From Jasimo:
> " damascus are hand made and perfect for light applications, high layer folds over 100 are expensive an used only for delicate cuts, a hammered 37 leaf will be best for you"
> 
> ??????????????
> ...


Hi Rick, Your post shows you have no idea what you are talking about, http://ioshen.co.uk/triplex-steel-technology/
core layers at 62 rockwell grade are now the best choice for pro chefs, damascus layers ensure a true cut, i go to Seki in Japan every year, have a nice katana, has a core! and not chinese i can assure you, a pro chef would never buy a forged pressed knife, only cooks buy them. By the way munitoshi does not exist, but munetoshi does!! get your facts right, seki are developing new tech as we speak, i see your not a chef, thought this website was for chefs!!


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Sorry jasimo, faux damascus layers do absolutely nothing except look blingy, there is simply no kinder way to put that. And your link makes no mention of the faux damascus you referred to in your previous post, making it rather apparent that you, quite amazingly, do not seem to even know what has been coming out of your mouth.

And you are also making absolutely no sense with the katana statement. Katanas do not utilize any sort of damascus, nor does any core steel on a cutting instrument require anything but the usual San Mai construction of two outer layers to sandwich it, as pretentiously described as "triplex steel technology" in the link you just provided from the Chinese producer suspect Japanese knife company. And "forged pressed", what exactly is that suppose to mean, the faux forging the mass producers do to create a bolster?

Despite what the name might imply Cheftalk is not merely for chefs and in contradiction to your contrary statement we in fact have home cooks, line cooks, prep cooks, etc and, yes, those with the title chef. There are some professional kitchen workers around here who have broad and excellent knowledge of kitchen knives, but most do not profess such. And many chefs around here are happy to use some of the most unexceptional common knives available, don't know why you would demeaningly relegate such knives to what you simply refer to as "cooks." And this particular forum is simply for any individuals who either want to know about kitchen knives, or have the experience to advise them knowledgeably. Most forums on this site are of this type, but if you want an audience of food professionals only we do have the professionals-only forums. Something for everybody in other words.


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## jasimo (Jun 23, 2018)

rick alan said:


> Sorry jasimo, faux damascus layers do absolutely nothing except look blingy, there is simply no kinder way to put that. And your link makes no mention of the faux damascus you referred to in your previous post, making it rather apparent that you, quite amazingly, do not seem to even know what has been coming out of your mouth.
> 
> And you are also making absolutely no sense with the katana statement. Katanas do not utilize any sort of damascus, nor does any core steel on a cutting instrument require anything but the usual San Mai construction of two outer layers to sandwich it, as pretentiously described as "triplex steel technology" in the link you just provided from the Chinese producer suspect Japanese knife company. And "forged pressed", what exactly is that suppose to mean, the faux forging the mass producers do to create a bolster?
> 
> Despite what the name might imply Cheftalk is not merely for chefs and in contradiction to your contrary statement we in fact have home cooks, line cooks, prep cooks, etc and, yes, those with the title chef. There are some professional kitchen workers around here who have broad and excellent knowledge of kitchen knives, but most do not profess such. And many chefs around here are happy to use some of the most unexceptional common knives available, don't know why you would demeaningly relegate such knives to what you simply refer to as "cooks." And this particular forum is simply for any individuals who either want to know about kitchen knives, or have the experience to advise them knowledgeably. Most forums on this site are of this type, but if you want an audience of food professionals only we do have the professionals-only forums. Something for everybody in other words.


Thank you for you sorry statement, it confirms that you mean well; i hope. When i posted a reply to Heinrich, i did not expect a reply from another member to be obtuse and rather demeaning, would have been nice to see a reply saying; hello Jasimo i have thoughts about your post, here is my reply, what do you think! 
I thought i could come on this forum to help and learn something as well, i can see your all to angry, a little politeness will prevail! Cooks do buy cheaper knives, its a fact, all trades men buy the best they can afford as its financially viable.
I will disagree with your points about seki knives, been their 3 months ago, my wife is from Tokyo, so i will let it rest. 
I will disable my membership, i had second thoughts about this site, whether i should join, when i first applied, wanted to talk about food, but now i was right, not a kind place to be affiliated with. god bless


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

“ will disable my membership, i had second thoughts about this site, whether i should join, when i first applied, wanted to talk about food, but now i was right, not a kind place to be affiliated with. god bless”

Please don’t leave. Most members here are polite and professional. Please don’t run off because of one experience you found distasteful.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

jasimo said:


> Hi Rick, Your post shows you have no idea what you are talking about, http://ioshen.co.uk/triplex-steel-technology/
> core layers at 62 rockwell grade are now the best choice for pro chefs, damascus layers ensure a true cut, i go to Seki in Japan every year, have a nice katana, has a core! and not chinese i can assure you, a pro chef would never buy a forged pressed knife, only cooks buy them. By the way munitoshi does not exist, but munetoshi does!! get your facts right, seki are developing new tech as we speak, i see your not a chef, thought this website was for chefs!!


Jasimo, your opening sentence of your reply is inappropriate for this site. Respect is a two-way street.

The triplex link is largely meaningless. They're hyping generic clad san mai construction and claiming Rockwell hardness of 62. In many ways this is a meaningless claim because you can harden most any steel to almost any hardness.

And they never say what steel they're using. There are a number steels you can harden to that point with good behavior.

Zdp-189 was the first I'm aware of but it was notoriously hard to sharpen. M4, M390, S35v, all bring other characteristics at that hardness. A reputable site would tell us what steel they are using, its characteristics and its contents.

The Damascus cladding contributes nothing to cutting. Damascus itself cuts no better than any other steel just because it's Damascus. You've brought into a lot of hype there. Compared to powder metallurgy and sintering Damascus is way behind the times. the steeles I mentioned are usually laser cut and stock removal process and not a forge shaping. But your slam against stamping and drop commercial forging is also misplaced. many of the sandvik steels for example what are very high grade steel in very fine grain and can take a high finish but are easily stamped or blanked.

There's a lot of knife knowledge here. You're assuming you have a level of knowledge you actually haven't demonstrated and showing you lack some knowledge about steel.

This sub forum does have a little more heat between some of the commentators. If you had read it more deeply you'd know that and also know the depth of the knowledge these people actually have.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

..


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## Baba Ghanoush (Jan 29, 2018)

Returning to the OP's quest for a gyuto, if he's still with us after this debacle. From a functionalistic and purely rational point of view I totally agree with Galley Swiller's recommendation of something like the Mac BK-100 in combination with the purchase of a nice large size cutting board and good sharpening equipment (although I would suggest postponing the purchase of the rough 400# stone and the buying of a leather strop to deliver the finale deburring touch after honing on the 3000# stone). BUT when a home cook goes searching for a $200+ knife, it's seldom just about functionality, maybe it's not at all about functionality in the first place. So the best advice may be something in between what the heart wants and the mind deep down knows is for the best. Japanese knives very seldom come with an optimal edge out of the box, and even if they did, all edges get worn, dull and sometimes chip, so there's really no practical point in owning a good Japanese blade, if you don't know how to sharpen or don't want to learn. You can learn on $30 knives or $300 knives. Learning on less expensive knives is obviously the less nerve-racking option. Learning on carbon or reasonably good quality stainless is less frustrating and tiresome and more rewarding than learning on cheap Chinese junk or diehard German steel.
About the two knives from JNS Rick Alan mentioned:

The Munetoshi is Shirogami carbon steel with a kurouchi finish (brut de forge or plainly speaking black-smith's finish). kurouchi finished knives retain the dark scaly residue left over from the forging process giving them a very rustic look. The kurouchi finish protects against rust, but unlike a stainless cladding will sooner or later wear off and leave the blade unprotected. Shirogami steel is more reactive than aogami steel (especially AS steel). You can force a patina by vinegar, ketchup or mustard or you can make a big bowl of onion soup in order to get a nice patina going. The Munetoshi have a good reputation, but the finish is on the rougher side of the spectrum.

The Itinomonn line have been discontinued and replaced with the Kaeru line. The Itinomonn was sanmai, V2 carbon core stainless clad (if I remember correctly). The new Kaeru line is also sanmai, but with a semi stainless SLD core underneath the stainless cladding. I have bought the 240 mm gyuto and the petty as gifts, so I know about the fit and finish, but I have not used or sharpened the Kaeru. The knife geeks over at Kitchen knives forums have tested the knife, and the conclusion is that the knife cuts well and that the edge is surprisingly robust. The overall finish is good. The spine on the gyuto have been eased but not rounded. The bevel is pretty flush and the edge is functional out of the box. Thin behind the edge. The handle is D-shaped (right hand biased) ho wood with a buffalo horn ferrule. The wood is nicely sanded, silky smooth to the touch, and the transition from the horn ferrule to the wood is seamless. The sand blasted faux wide-bevel is a matter of taste. There's one F&F problem though, the installation of the tang in the blade is a little hit and miss with the Kaeru line: There was a fairly large gap between the wood and the tang in the petty knife I received, the gyuto did not come with this F&F issue though. I fixed the problem with wood filler. At $215 ($170 excluding Danish VAT) for the 240 mm and $156 for the 210 mm the knife's a good deal. I like semi stainless steel because I appreciate the compromise between ease of sharpening and ease of maintenance. BUT preferences are of course subjective and so are the words we use to transmit our experiences. And pictures can be deceiving. So if it's possible to see and hold a knife prior to purchase it's definitely recommended. There's a number of knife shops in Switzerland selling fancy Japanese knives. This one got the Koishi: https://www.japanische-kochmesser.ch
Maybe they also got a showroom. Worth finding out.

Good Luck.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Great post BG, appreciate you filling in the details and name changes, haven't been following that closely lately. I believe Munetoshi was the blacksmith supplying Itonomon, and I had used the V2 version. Beautiful knife, top notch HT and laser thin at the edge, literally equal to well liked knives costing double. SLD is a very good tool steel, and improvement on SKD which is still very popular. The semi-stainless Itonomon was believed to be of SLD, I got a chance to use and also sharpen that one, found it easy enough to sharpen.

For sharpening techniques I simply recommend Jon Broida's videos on youtube, they are beautifully done and stay right to the point, and there is really not much more you could add to them. He has 2 I believe on deburring technique which are especially helpful to the beginner.


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## Baba Ghanoush (Jan 29, 2018)

Still got the Kaeru petty in my possession and just took another look. Declaring that the knife is thin behind the edge is definitely an understatement. I expect it to cut very, very well. Having a hard time resisting cutting something with it. Do gifts really have to be pristine? I'll just slice a couple of tiny little tomatoes, maybe dice an onion. Tomato salad. What's wrong with that? Maybe I should just keep the petty. I'll find good uses for it. It's mine. My precious!!!


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## jbroida (Nov 13, 2011)

rick alan said:


> I believe Munetoshi was the blacksmith supplying Itonomon


I dont think this is an accurate statement


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

I'd take Jon's input there over my original source.


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## Heinrich (Jun 23, 2018)

Hello all
And yes Baba I am still here and follow your interesting comments. I have got tons of knives and carefully have to choose should last lifetime. Think having good material as home cook means respecting the food and people eating it.

I am mostly cooking vegetables so there is no hard stuff. But thought to buy cheap ones in the same time to get used to it and also to feel the sharpening how it works.

But yes 


Baba Ghanoush said:


> o the best advice may be something in between what the heart wants and the mind deep down knows is for the best. Japanese knives very seldom come with an optimal edge out of the box, and even if they did, all edges get worn, dull and sometimes chip, so there's really no practical point in owning a good Japanese blade


 it is true. Having i.e. Japan handles well 

Thank you the proccess has started. Let me know your opinions. Would be nice to have a database with the knives and there virtues.

Take care

Heinrich


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## jasimo (Jun 23, 2018)

phatch said:


> Jasimo, your opening sentence of your reply is inappropriate for this site. Respect is a two-way street.
> 
> The triplex link is largely meaningless. They're hyping generic clad san mai construction and claiming Rockwell hardness of 62. In many ways this is a meaningless claim because you can harden most any steel to almost any hardness.
> 
> ...


Thank you, finally i am learning, i see you have a vast knowledge of chefs knives, i appreciate it very much, post like this should be the norm on this site, as a chef i buy many knives use then for up to 5 cutting hours a day, so i need the best i can buy, i love japanese, German and cheap ceramic knives, im bias because i go to japan every 3 months, i have many knives but the problem with most is how to keep them honed as they came out of the box, what do you think! take care jasimo


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Heinrick if such a database did exist it would likely take you a man-year (2,000 hours or 50 40hr work weeks) just to go through! Though think about what characteristics are important to you at the moment and we could move along much quicker to finding you a knife.


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## Heinrich (Jun 23, 2018)

You are right. After reading all of the comments my specs should be
Knives: Gyuto and Petty, Price max. 180$ each
1. Easy to Keep sharp
2. Made sharp OOTB
3. Japan Handle
4. should be stainless as long as possible
5. if possible handmade

Cutting board: some Woods have anti bacteria properties


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## mike9 (Jul 13, 2012)

IMHO location ought to be mandatory when registering on this site - more time and bandwidth is wasted on people who live "elsewhere" when we who live "here" are trying to give advice. 'Common people . . .


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

There is something to that Mike, but here it was resolved fairly early on. I know we've talked of a knife questionnaire in the past, but we have survived this long without it. Always felt the KKF one is a bit intimidating, and that has been echoed.

Heinrick it's a big holiday coming up here in the States, sorry for the delayed responses. For starters I should like to say that some people just can't stop themselves short of complete foolishness, and aside from the fact that beater knives are made for that I'm sure you know that a Japanese knife of 62HRC (actual, not fake advertised) should never be used to cut through bone of any kind.

Couple thoughts in these early hours of the morning: The Itonomon mentioned is an excellent choice for stainless. But consider that for a newbie learning to sharpen nothing beats carbon as you can get it crazy sharp very easily. The Masahiro virgin carbon is a great bargain here. It's a yo handle though, have to come up with a Wa-handled equivalent.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

I probably started the itinomonn hype on this forum, but I never recommend it anymore because its not in stock. I think production has stopped and its been replaced by other lines. No shortage of stainless clad Sanjo knives from JNS.


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## Heinrich (Jun 23, 2018)

Hello I do not hope to bother somebody. Asking for suggestion living "elsewhere" does not mean to buy also "elsewhere". Rick absolutely no problems with the answers. It takes what it takes and hope that you enjoy all the holidays. Thank you Millionsknives for the suggestions. I am a newbie but that does not mean that I can't get experience. I do not plan to use it for meat. Mostly eating vegetables. Thanks and all of you have great holidays.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Yes Millions certainly did turn us on to the Itonomon, for which he so aptly coined the term, "Itonomon Love." And Baba G. mentioned earlier that it was replaced by the Kaeru line, I simply forgot. And you're very welcome Heinrick.


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## Heinrich (Jun 23, 2018)

Hello Rick Thank you very much for your answer. Itonomon is surely an option but is it available thought it is not produced anymore.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Right, it is no longer available, as I corrected myself above after Millions also pointed it out. The Kaeru line replaces it.


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## Heinrich (Jun 23, 2018)

Thank you Rick What do you think does the Kaeru Line have the same qualities as the Itonomon


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Kaeru is a whole different steel. It is SLD stainless. Sharpening will be different than semi stainless or carbon. I heard the performance is good. I don't really like the fake wide bevel look.


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## Heinrich (Jun 23, 2018)

Thank you millionsknives I have read the Review on http://japaneseknivesandstones.com/kaeru-210mm-gyuto/ one passage says:

"If I had to mention a negative point, it is the handle installation. There is quite a gap between the handle and the tang (see below), and I worry water will get in and eat away at the handle from the inside."

That can harm the knife


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

The gap very likely does not appear on every knife, and is easily filled in with beeswax as stated. The handle is likely secured with beeswax or epoxy, so the would should be well sealed up even with a gap.


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## Heinrich (Jun 23, 2018)

Hi Rick I prefer Beeswax and will do accordingly. Thank you Heinrich


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

I think it is better to use a thicker beeswax mineral oil paste. The ratio is like 1 beeswax to 3 or 4 mineral oil. straight beeswax is hard and cracks when it cools you would still have a gap


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