# idea for a simple pastry product that would require minimum of investment



## kbuff (Jun 20, 2014)

I am new to this career. I am currently working as a cook in bakery department in Whole Foods, and I assume that I could post here. If not, please let me know.

I want to develop a simple pastry item that requires minimum equipment. I want to perfect the procedure through experimentation, and I don't want to act extravagantly in terms of my finances.

I am looking for ideas for pastry items that could be made with minimum equipment investment. I am looking for something small that could be packed in a creative and attractive way to give out. I want to be able to create something that would feed all the sense, the *aesthetic aspect being emphasized*. It needs to be manageable on my very modest budget.

Thank you.


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

This sounds like a person that's tired of working at Whole foods and thinks the business world is a piece of cake. It's not this easy........


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Hi Kbuff,

Not to sound snotty or anything, but if anyone on this site met the criteria for your idea, odds are they would develop it themselves instead of tossing it out for free.

Once again, I apologize for sounding snotty.


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## kbuff (Jun 20, 2014)

What I simply meant was what kind of products would require least tools. I take that it is a naive question to ask, perhaps, but why not ask it anyway? You have to try, you know. I've gotten some answers from various forums that amazed me in their simplicity.  Sometimes we are more stupid than we think. And, for instance, I have many ideas that I can't put to work because it's not the right time or place, but nevertheless they could be great for someone else that is in that point of his life that he can use it. And BTW, business or not, nothing worthwhile is a piece of cake.

Best, and thank you.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Tools for?

Production?
Portioning?
Storage of raw ingredients?
Packaging?
Labeling? (including bar codes. No store will touch you if you don't have bar codes)
Storage of finished products?
Shipping?
Display/merchandising?

If you like, I can steer you in the direction of a few distributers. They can tell you what retail stores want, and can take over all distibution. Most charge between 30%-35%.


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## kbuff (Jun 20, 2014)

I was thinking about something way more modest. Samples so to speak that could be given away along with a flyer and a business card. "Morsels to give out" that I could make at home.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Samples to shop around with the end game being to take orders and start your own home bakery?
Does NJ have a cottage law in place?

mimi


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## kbuff (Jun 20, 2014)

Just forget about cottage laws, etc.. My question didn't go there. I didn't intend to start an omnibus discussion on how to start a business in NJ. Simply a list of possible products, but I see it is not as simple as I thought, and I speak from somewhat different frame of reference. My apologies.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Ah I see....

May suggest doing some "leg work" first?

Make something at home, take a few pics, and ask friends, family, etc. what they would pay for, say, a 8" ny cheesecake. If 5 or more from 10 people you ask give you a price that covers your ingredients and time, you might make a go of it.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

flipflopgirl said:


> Samples to shop around with the end game being to take orders and start your own home bakery?
> Does NJ have a cottage law in place?
> 
> mimi


Actually the CL makes a huge difference.
If there is not one then you will need thousands of dollars to bring a home kitchen up to code before you can legally produce even one morsel .
Even if you give it away.

mimi


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Everything is simple and easy to make with minimum tools if you know how.  You need to work in a good hotel pastry department.  You need to move your hands fast and be organized.

I worked in an independent pastry shop for one year.  We cranked out 50 baguettes twice a day, a couple cakes, focaccia, strudel, pithiviers, etc.  It took three people five hours to do full production for a store which did $300/day.  This was in the late 90s.

Butter, sugar, flour.  Three basic ingredients.

Rolling pin, scale, oven.  Basic equipment.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

If your arm is strong and you have good technique there are many small treats you can make with only a whisk, bowl and baking sheets.

There was a vid posted last week showing the OP cranking out French macs using only a whisk.

Of course for those you will need to add a sifter, a piping (or ziplock ) bag with a large bore tip.... and a large silicone or rubber spatula (I recommend silicone as you can also use it to stir molten sugar during candy making).

My daughter makes a lot of altered cake mix cookies and snack cakes with a whisk so definitely buy one (an assortment would be great but you could start with one if it is large).

If you cannot get to a restaurant supply store Target has kitchen gadgets on sale this week.

mimi


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

flipflopgirl said:


> Of course for those you will need to add a sifter, a piping (or ziplock ) bag with a large bore tip.... and a large silicone or rubber spatula (I recommend silicone as you can also use it to stir molten sugar during candy making).


You don't even need those really. Sifter? That's just a plain kitchen strainer. Piping bag? That's parchment.


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## kbuff (Jun 20, 2014)

Thank you all,

I though that this thread will produce a list of specific items with a corresponding list of specific tools, and that it will be highly individualistic, even idiosyncratic, and less concerned with being possibly wrong or inappropriate. I though I will get some wild or even whacky ideas

Best


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## kbuff (Jun 20, 2014)

Thanks Mimi. I was actually thinking about macs. Where can I see that video?

Another idea was to make some kind of mini Fraisier Cakes -they look great, but could be a lot of work.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Go to search and plug in macaron.

Not being snarky....along with the vid you will turn up a great many threads with lots of FAQ's with answers you can trust.

Don't get off track trying to analyze every recipe in every post or you will end up going in circles...

mimi


kbuff said:


> Thank you all,
> 
> I though that this thread will produce a list of specific items with a corresponding list of specific tools, and that it will be highly individualistic, even idiosyncratic, and less concerned with being possibly wrong or inappropriate. I though I will get some wild or even whacky ideas
> 
> Best


If you stick with Chef Talk and become a regular contributing member you will find most of the info to be of professional caliber.

Yes we do like to have fun but when it comes down to brass tacks the majority of the community is seriously serious when it comes to food.

m.


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## kbuff (Jun 20, 2014)

Thanks Mimi,

I agree that you should be serious. It's excellence that we are after as cooks, aren't we? I only meant that while brain-storming, it could be beneficial to allow oneself to be a bit "wild".


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## chefpeon (Jun 14, 2006)

So I read this whole thread......and I'm just wondering......I mean, whenever I need inspiration, I just pull out one of my pastry books and browse......

all the recipes, including the equipment you'll need, are all right there........am I missing something here?


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## kbuff (Jun 20, 2014)

The human element./img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif


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## fablesable (Oct 11, 2014)

@kbuff The human element IS needed to be inspired......so nope.....not missing.

As for this brainstorming sort of plan you have thought of in your mind.......in the food industry there is a heck of a lot more issues one has to work out BEFORE one can just brainstorm or be inspired to create a product.

The first would be that you need to have experience and possible formal training to be able to 'develop a pastry product'. If you would just like to look at some pictures and want to make that particular product then what @chefpeon has to say is bang on. Macarons and fraisier cakes have already been 'developed'. The simple truth is that you do not have the knowledge nor experience to know even a quarter of what we can talk about or suggest so you will have to do some legwork on this.

The second is that one would need to know what you are 'developing' this item for. What sort of application and audience are you trying to appeal to your product.

The third would be Food Safety.......OF COURSE!!

I can go on however, I am sure you are now understanding the scope of issues that can and will arise from such an inquiry. This is NOT your former field of work in the woodwork atmosphere and I am pretty sure that if I walked in and asked a similar question pertaining to millwork or architectural woodworking, I would have to be very specific in scope of job and outcome I wish to achieve before one could 'brainstorm' and give me ideas and estimates toward equipment needed for said project.

If you wish to 'brainstorm' then come to the table with more specific parameters and outcomes you wish to achieve and we can help you from there with our 'wild and crazy' ideas /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif

PS: I hope that is serious enough for you.


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## jcakes (Feb 18, 2007)

I think I'm confused too.  What's the end game?  Do you want to get the word out about the product or do you want to get the word out about a business?  Marshmallows or cookies can be attractively packaged, and inexpensively made depending on the recipe; but something based on dairy or chocolate might have issues with shelf life and require refrigeration.  So I think having an objective will help narrow suggestions and help with the brainstorming.  A lot of what you might already be doing at work might be possible.if you look at it from a different perspective.


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

I was confused then I had a bottle of wine and now it all looks clear. If this was Shark tank I would be saying no............


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## kbuff (Jun 20, 2014)

Thank you guys.

I apologize for the confusion. My request was kinda of an "open question", and I've realized that it could be difficult to address, especially for the scientifically inclined, as bakers most likely are. I hoped to learn about baked goods with particularly strong visual appeal that I may not come across otherwise.  And I assumed that getting answers from the people in the known could put me on the right track – they would know better than I what would be feasible for a guy on a budget. This might have been a wrong approach, I admit. I just took my chance to fish for ideas and advice, like a fisherman who casts his fishing net in an unknown water, and then waits to see what happens. Fishing for an unknown fish. J

I admit that "to develop a product" wasn't a good word choice, since it presupposes a vast knowledge on my part.

In regard to fraisier cakes – I mentioned them because I felt that they present a great opportunity if one wants to be a little creative. Like making some beautiful design with the fruit that will be visible on the cake surface. I'm sure that this is most likely nothing new, but still may be further explored. But I wasn't sure that the amount of work this might require would pay off.

I hope to eventually create a number of "morsels to give out" that together with other stuff (business card, etc.) would help me to build a professional network. 

I’ve also realized that by not wanting to make this thread too complex, I probably made it too vague. 

To sum up:

1. The "audience" is people that I meet and want to give them something more personal and tangible (and tasty and beautiful) than just a business card, to be more effective in networking, and regardless, just to delight them and to make their day a little more enjoyable. 

2. The baked goods should be fairly small, and feasible to make on a budget.

3. The emphasis in on beauty and presentation.

4. I want to limit myself to a few choices so I can do the required legwork, and with time to perfect those "morsels to give out".

Again, many thanks to you guys.

Thank you guys.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Uh, petit fours, which you can even make with leftover cake.


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

I still don't think your explaining this properly. I know you have the thought in your mind but it not getting as to why you want to give something. I understand that you want to hand the people you meet a sample of what you do. It's like here I am the proof of the quality I talk about is in this sample decadent dessert. What is your opening line to the people you meet? Is it "Hi my name is Kbuff I am a Professional Pastry Chef and I would like to talk with you about my Pastry catering business". ..............I found this packaging it's just an idea and can be made to size. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great idea. I did this with my clients in some cases catering a small lunch in their home for them and a few of their friends. In my case it may cost me my time and cost of food but I would also get all their catering and all of their friends catering.





  








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## chefpeon (Jun 14, 2006)

Honestly, I've done the "edible business card" thing when I was trying to score accounts for the various shops I've worked for and also for my own business. Really,

with the time and effort that goes into it, it really isn't worth any kind of payoff you may get.  For one thing, since that morsel is more or less a "first impression" type deal,

it has to be perfect and very fresh, otherwise, why bother? Then there's the issue of whether the people you are giving this thing to are actually eating it. They may not even like or appreciate what you've made, or may be on one of those crazy diets, like gluten-free or paleo or whatever. To me and from my experience, doing that sort of thing is a wasted effort. 

What HAS worked for me is a more direct approach. If you are cold-calling people looking for business, the best thing is to go into it with the strategy of finding out what they might want. Once you know what they are looking for, make THAT THING and bring it to them, gratis. THAT'S what makes the impression, AND they know you're serious if you would actually do something like that. It's more effective marketing, and believe me it works far better than blanketing a swath of people with something they may never order from you. Time is valuable. Super valuable. Use it wisely and effectively.


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## jcakes (Feb 18, 2007)

kbuff said:


> I hope to eventually create a number of "morsels to give out" that together with other stuff (business card, etc.) would *help me to build a professional network*.
> 
> I've also realized that by not wanting to make this thread too complex, I probably made it too vague.
> 
> ...


Networking is big in the industry where you specialize. If you do wedding cakes, you join wedding industry groups and go to all of the marketing events and meet people and keep meeting them at these events so they remember you and refer you. If you do dessert tables, same thing. If you join an industry group or business networking group, that's when the delicious morsel has a potential pay off. If you join an industry group, they're definitely going to ask for freebies (over and over) so you'll have plenty of opportunity to give out food to people who may, or may not, remember you/your company. You might have better return on the investment by participating in farmers markets and craft fairs if you are doing a non-potentially hazardous food item.


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## kbuff (Jun 20, 2014)

Thank you all for your effort. I realized that further explaining only encourages our rambling to go on forever. 

My suggestion: read the original post, and if you can't answer it, just don't answer. The reasons why you don't answer are are required. It seems plain and simple to me. I hope it is a forum for responsible people, not a kindergarten. That;s how  a grownup man approaches a question.  By respecting the one who asks. If it's stupid, let him be stupid. 

Thanks again.

PS I aopogizing if  sounded ungrateful. I did glean some valuable advise/information from some of the posts. It was just a general comment.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

If you are a "professional pastry chef" then you should walk and talk like one.  In your opening question it just doesn't come through.  Frankly, what you ask for isn't difficult at all but you seem to want a magic bullet which no professional pastry chef has ever found.  It's skills and work, not just work, knowing how to work.  This is the reality.


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## chefpeon (Jun 14, 2006)

Exactly what kuan said. There is no magic answer. You need to open some books, read them, practice skills and gain some knowledge. These days it's far easier to learn pastry skills than even just 10 years ago. There are YouTube tutorials and videos, food blogs and any number of websites dedicated to the art of pastry. I wish all that stuff was around in my early days. Even though I had 2 years of culinary school under my belt, I still read everything I could and practiced at home.......and I STILL do.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

kbuff said:


> Thank you all for your effort. I realized that further explaining only encourages our rambling to go on forever.
> My suggestion: read the original post, and if you can't answer it, just don't answer. The reasons why you don't answer are are required. It seems plain and simple to me. I hope it is a forum for responsible people, not a kindergarten. That;s how a grownup man approaches a question. By respecting the one who asks. If it's stupid, let him be stupid.
> Thanks again.
> 
> PS I aopogizing if sounded ungrateful. I did glean some valuable advise/information from some of the posts. It was just a general comment.


Wow.

PS. Have you considered Rice Krispy treats? Everyone loves them, they can be creatively molded, and dressed up in an unlimited number of ways. Plus the require almost no equipment and limited ingredients.


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

This reminds me of people asking me if they should buy a restaurant. They tell me it looks so easy and so much fun. I tell them it goes from "fun to going out of business" in a heartbeat......It looks like were throwing around this Professional Pastry Chef title.


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## jcakes (Feb 18, 2007)

Time for a new forum, or a new category:

*Forum options*: Ask a chef (like chefpeon suggested a while ago): you can pose questions to the pros. Anyone (any ability whether student, newbie, at home cook) can ask, only the pros answer. Existing forums stay in their current form.....

*Titles*: New option for culinary professionals with LESS THAN 3 YEARS EXPERIENCE WORKING IN A PROFESSIONAL (COMMERCIAL) LICENSED KITCHEN. It seems to me that it takes a solid 3 years for people to "get it" when they are new to the food service industry. And for those who prefer a different line of work within the food industry, 3 years is about when they decide to make a change from an active cooking role to a different role (food service sales, FOH, other managerial roles). I don't have any ideas for what to call this, though.

We are all eager newbies once; we have to be careful not to kill someone's enthusiasm but not encourage an ego before it's ready. Sometimes it's hard. People post once or twice and then never come back to find out that a passionate bunch are answering their questions......

Kuan, what say you?


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## chefbuba (Feb 17, 2010)

Sounds like a good idea. Too many people asking _*very basic*_ questions that have given themselves the title of pro when asking how best to make a stock, it's too obvious.

The "professional caterer" is also another. How many one hit wonder threads are there on how much potato salad should I have for 50 people or how much pasta should I cook.

The "Home Chef" moniker is another. WTF is a home chef?


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

chefbuba said:


> The "Home Chef" moniker is another. WTF is a home chef?


Well, I could say it out loud, but this being a family site and all, don't think I should. But if chefbuba were to buy me a beer or two, he could have his answer. Mind you, by that time you'd need a crow bar to get us both out of that bar......


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## chefpeon (Jun 14, 2006)

@BrianShaw OMG, that's hilarious! Thanks for the laugh!!! Now that I think about it.......Rice Krispy Treats are probably just kbuff's speed.

And I wholeheartedly agree with JCakes........I've been in contact with @Nicko about pro forum rules and the fact that non pros are constantly posting here despite what it says at the top of the page. I've been flagging posts as necessary, but it doesn't always work for some reason.


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## chefbuba (Feb 17, 2010)

foodpump said:


> Well, I could say it out loud, but this being a family site and all, don't think I should. But if chefbuba were to buy me a beer or two, he could have his answer. Mind you, by that time you'd need a crow bar to get us both out of that bar......


I'd buy you that beer, I'm only about 6 hrs south and with the exchange rate the way it is I might be able to buy an extra or three.


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## kbuff (Jun 20, 2014)

BrianShaw said:


> Wow.
> 
> PS. Have you considered Rice Krispy treats? Everyone loves them, they can be creatively molded, and dressed up in an unlimited number of ways. Plus the require almost no equipment and limited ingredients.


I didn't. Thank you BrianShaw.


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## kbuff (Jun 20, 2014)

ChefBillyB said:


> Macaron boxes.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for these packaging pics.


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## jcakes (Feb 18, 2007)

the best price I've found on those clear plastic boxes is papermart.com; if you get them, *air them out first* because they definitely have an odor to them.  Assemble them in advance because since they ship flat, and really push on the folds as you are creasing them otherwise the squares look more like inflated dice rather than square cubes...


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## kbuff (Jun 20, 2014)

JCakes said:


> the best price I've found on those clear plastic boxes is papermart.com; if you get them, *air them out first* because they definitely have an odor to them. Assemble them in advance because since they ship flat, and really push on the folds as you are creasing them otherwise the squares look more like inflated dice rather than square cubes...


Thank you. Those are really nice and inexpensive ones.

I've found some interesting designs. Those must cost a fortune to make, forgive me for posting them for they are not really practical for our purposes. And of course there has to be balance between the content and the packaging, so it won't feel like trying too hard. Just couldn't help.





  








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I like this one in particular.

Cheers


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## jcakes (Feb 18, 2007)

Definitely memorable packaging, and definitely expensive!


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

If you want to spend the time you can make origami boxes.

http://www.origami-instructions.com/origami-boxes-and-containers.html

I only do this when I make truffles for my kid's teachers or bake sales, stuff like that. Takes too long, but it's an idea at least. You might be able to assembly line them.


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## nicko (Oct 5, 2001)

I think this thread needs to go guys what is the point. It is just a bashing thread. @Pete @kuan agree? I will just delete it if you are in agreement.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Despite a bit of testiness earlier in the thread I'm finding this discussion quite useful, as it seems is the OP. The creative packaging suggestions are quite valuable. Deleting might not be in the best interest of the community.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

It is kinda wandering all over the place but if @kbuff doesn't mind (and it is his thread) I don't see any reason to shut it down completely.

It would be nice if he would maybe contribute in other threads (or maybe start a new one re packaging).

I love to see how others present treats as gifts.

mimi

Talking smack /img/vbsmilies/smilies/laser.gif is just part of our world and as long as no one gets hurt I vote to leave it be.

m.


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## kbuff (Jun 20, 2014)

Thank you all.

I apologize for the tone of some of my replies.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Love a well written humble post/PM.

Have written more than my share lol.

Welcome to CT @kbuff.

mimi


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