# Parmigiano Reggiano



## allie (Jul 21, 2006)

Ok, I splurged on some cheese! I don't know if this is a good brand or not but figured someone here might know. lol Les about choked when he was helping me put groceries away and saw what I spent on a little bit of cheese. With a budget of about $100 give or take $20-30 per week, he thought it was a bit overboard. I just want to try a better product than the green can. lol

Zanelli Grassi Parmigiano Reggiano Aged over 18 months
It says it's a product of Italy. I paid $6.12 for .35 lbs at $17.49 per pound. Hopefully, it's good! I plan to use it tonight in making my first ever alfredo!


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## cat man (May 7, 2007)

Parmasean Reggianno can only be made along the Po River Valley in Italy, near Florence.
The government inspects every single wheel (only after 2 years aging minimum) with a rubber mallet to check for defects and only then is each single wheel approved for sale as PR. It is branded as such.

Any wheel found with defects instantly gets a branding of 3 X's and cannot be sold as PR. It usually ends up in local markets or sent off for shredding. Too many of these and the head cheesemaster gets fired.
Remember, they have to sit on the made cheese for 2 years before they can even offer it for sale as PR, so you can't afford to lose too many wheels.

Aged more than 1 year but less than 2, it's commonly known as Stravecchia, still a great cheese but not quite as sharp.

I've toured several cheese plants in Italy and the passion and pride these cheesemakers have is unreal.

A large commercial user of PR in this country is paying about $8/lb right now, up from $6 just two years ago (weak US $)

Since you bought a little chunk at retail, I bet you paid close to $14/lb.

Enjoy it but don't waste any.

Cat Man


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## cat man (May 7, 2007)

Allie
Sorry, I didn't see the bottom of your post where you paid over $17/lb.

Ouch! That gives you an idea what they marked it up at least.

Cat Man


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## allie (Jul 21, 2006)

Yeah, it was a bit expensive for my normal budget! We had it in an alfredo last night and it was much better than the cheap stuff. lol I only needed about 1/3 cup or so and there is still a good bit left! I can't wait to use it on something else! I also bought a 10 oz hunk of Asiago. It was pretty cheap at $1.99 but was so, so much better than the pre-shredded stuff I've tried. 

Thank you for your information! Now I know more what to look for in the future. The store where I got it, actually has a lot of things I can't find elsewhere....like tahini which I had looked for over the past 6 months or so and lots of different cheeses. They are being bought out by Kroger and will change hands on June 11th. Right now, they are reducing a lot of cheese and other perishables. If the sell by date is up within two weeks of June 11, Kroger won't take the product or if they have less than a case in storage. I plan to go back and see what I can luck up on before the merger. The associate I spoke with said they promised not to change things. I just have a sneaky feeling that promise won't stand! I hope it does because while I can't buy all my groceries there, it's nice to have one store within 20 miles that does carry the items it seems the majority of the population doesn't use! Otherwise, I have to drive 45 miles plus!


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Allie, if you've got a few bucks to play with, talk to the department manager, rather than a sales associate. The manager can make deals, and is likely to do so in order to get rid of stuff before the takeover. 

Both Asiago and Parma Reggiano keep two days longer than forever in the fridge. Unbroken wheels can be kept at room temp almost as long. So stocking up ain't a bad idea of the price is right. 

However, on the Asiago, at a buck ninety nine I reckon it was imported from Wisconsin.


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## allie (Jul 21, 2006)

Tahnks for the advice! I was planning to go back a little closer to June 11 and see what's still available. They put orange reduced stickers on all merchandise that needs to be cleared so it's easy to find. Then I can talk to the manager as well.

The asiago is Maplewood Farms. I knew when I saw the price that it wasn't the best on the market but wanted to try it anyway. lol It was still better than the pre-shredded stuff. Hopefully, I can find some good deals on a better product!


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## indianwells (Jan 2, 2007)

Any cheese is better in a chunk than pre-shredded IMO. Pre-grated Parm is disgusting!


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Couldn't agree more, Indianwells.

Also, for folks new to it, like Allie, freshly grated takes up more volume than the pre-grated stuff. Which means you have to use more of it to get the same flavor/effect. 

When a recipe give you both volume and weight measurments, be sure and use the weight when grating your own---particularly if using a micro-plane.


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## allie (Jul 21, 2006)

The recipe I used didn't give a weight. You're right! It did need more and that is what Les told me when he tasted it. I know that next time I need to probably use double what the recipe called for but this was still pretty good.

I don't have a microplane but used the grater end with the really small holes. It's one of those that has the big holes on top, then the slicer, then the small holes at the bottom. It works pretty well for grating cheeses and zesting a lemon. I have been thinking I need a microplane! lol


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## bluezebra (May 19, 2007)

Hi Allie, congrats on moving up the taste ladder! Isn't it amazing when you try new things and purer forms of things you've been eating your whole life? I remember as a kid dad would get "the good stuff" when he was making his famed Spaghetti and Meatballs but the rest of the time we had the green can lol! That was in the 60's when we thought it was called "Par-meeeeee-see-ann" Cheese lol. And I still remember the taste difference to this day. Weird huh?!

Anyways on the microplane: It's one of the best purchases I've ever made. I use it every day. I grate hard cheeses on it. I also grate things like zests, fresh ginger, carrots when I need small fine quantities, chocolate, nutmeg, and even garlic when i'm being lazy and doing ginger for quick stir frys. I have a long thin one and a wider one that will grate bi-directionally. My hubby likes the wider one but I love the strength of the long thin one!

Hope you get to get one. I think you will love it! Happy cooking!


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

I agree 100%. I have the long, thin one - medium grate, I believe - and use it more often than anticipated. It's a "grate" kitchen tool.

Shel


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Allie, a micro-plane is one of those things you have absolutely no need for. Until you use one for the first time. And then you wonder how you ever got along without it. 

Don't know how your grater works, but with a micro-plane doubling the volume of cheese won't do it. You get a big, fluffy pile. I would say, at a minimum, you have to quadruple the volume measurement. And it's probably more than that. 

Blue: How do you clean the one that cuts bi-directionally?


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## bluezebra (May 19, 2007)

KYHeirloomer you know I only "wersh" mine in the dishwasher after grating raw chicken or other poultry with it!  bwahahahahaha! (sorry little joke all)

LOL KYH I just run it under hot water after using it with a bit of dish soap and run a cloth over it perpendicular to the grater so that it doesn't cut at the cloth lol. Works fine. But I do rinse it first in cold water to get any cheese out that might be stuck to it.


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## mattfin (Apr 16, 2007)

Indeed, it is great that you have moved away from the nasty green can on to the brighter pastures of the real stuff. I don't allow the green can in my house. I am Italian, so perhaps that is why, but when my girlfriend (now wife) moved in, and brought her stuff, we were un packing and I pulled out a can of the pre-grated crap from her things. I didn't even make a motion towards the fridge, and I threw it straight in the trash.

She couldn't understand why I did such a thing until I made her pasta with the real stuff. She is a convert now as well.

Anyway, one more point about buying/grating blocks of PR, be sure to buy a piece with the rind on. That way you can be sure by the "pinpoint font" that it is in fact PR, and secondly, if you are always grating from the side oppostie the rind, you are always grating from the freshest side of the cheese, right?...  

Also, the rind can be used in soups or grated in your cuisinart for use in breads, so there is no waste.

Welcome to the world of the best cheese in the world. You will never go back to the green can now that you have tatsed of this heavenly cheese, I promise you!


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## devilnuts (Mar 5, 2007)

I still use the green can on occasion. I am thinking I need to change my ways.

How much do micrograters cost? Anyone?


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

I absolutely love this quote/expression!!!!...
Luc


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## anneke (Jan 5, 2001)

Who has room for an unbroken wheel? Even an unbroken wheel needs to be stored in a highly temperature-controlled environment. Sorry, I have to disagree. When it comes to cheese, any cheese, buy what you need, and buy freshly cut. Parm will keep quite a while and can still be used when dry, but even it has its limits. I'd rather pay full price for a cheese with 100% of its flavour than pay half for a cheese that will lose half its flavour.


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

You can find a microplane grater for about $12, I think. Amazon has them on sale just now for $8.88. If you go that route please use the Chef Talk linkthrough to Amazon. 

I've got a piece of grana Padano in my fridge that I sealed in my FoodSaver vacuum sealer about 8 months ago. there's not a spot of mold on it.


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## allie (Jul 21, 2006)

I definitely don't have room for a whole wheel. lol The one they had was huge! Like 18 inches or more in diameter. I'm planning to go back this weekend. With the party last weekend, I had so much food leftover that I've been remaking it into other dishes and cooking some things I had in the freezer rather than make a trip to the store. It's been two weeks! Now my pantry is getting rather bare!


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## mikelm (Dec 23, 2000)

Allie-
You _absolutely _ need a Microplane. It was introduced ten or more years ago - as a woodworking tool. It was recommended in a Lee Valley woodworker's catalog about that long ago, and I ordered one. (They were the first to point out that it was pretty great in the kitchen.) After a few days using it, I ordered one for each of my kids, who are all enthusiastic cooks.

It's now available at W-S, and at most cooking-supply stores, at a somewhat higher price than Lee Valley but still quite reasonable - $8-10 or so for several varities. They've also expanded their technology into a variety of woodworking tools.

Mike


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

I do probably the most blasphemous thing one can do to PR but it never looses its flavour and it works in my house.

I purchase 1kg at a time and I freeze it in a resealable bag. I can slice chunks with a sharp knife or cleaver when i need it. I have a press and rotary cheese grator i.e. squeeze with one hand turn with the other... works fine.

The rind I keep frozen for soups and sauces (as per Mattfin).

(when my kids go to a neighbor and they are offered the green can, they pass).

Luc


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## cat man (May 7, 2007)

Luc
You probaly know this as well as anyone, but low moisture cheeses definitely freeze better than higher moisture cheeses.
It's not sacrilege, it's reality. You won't see the whey purge upon thawing with PR that you would from say a 55+ Blue.

Personally, when I have a wedge in my fridge, I focus that weeks meals on utilizing as much as possible. Myself, wife and daughter are all cheese freaks so there is no issue with using it as an ingredient twice daily for an entire week.

I will share a funny story with you.

When my daughter was still toddling around, I was making a blue cheese dressing from scratch one day. (homemade mayo, the whole gamut).

The first thing I do, is crumble the blue and leave it out to 'bloom'.

Well, my back was turned whilst making the mayo, and when I was ready to finally add the BC to the dressing base, I turned around to get it..and nothing was on the cutting board but BC crumbs. 5 whole ounces!!
I look around the corner, and there is my 1 yr old with a mouth full of blue cheese crumbles....

Yes, the whole famly is cheese freaks

Cat Man


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## devilnuts (Mar 5, 2007)

what is the difference between the microplane and a box grater? I'm trying to figure out what one does that the other does not.


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

Hey Cat Man!!
funnnny story!!! Your family is really into cheese.

(yes I knew about the low moisture cheese can freeze but I always astonish people when I tell them. My classes are like home-ec and knowing to freeze PR for example can be cost effective for families)

We are moderate cheese eaters at home and nothing fancy but we hate the green can and cheese substitutes of any kind.

I recently ordered some rennet and cultures to make some cheese trials at home. I am a passionate cook when alot of science in involved. I experiment often and now I think I can take up making cheese. I will try easy stuff to start: mozzarella, feta then graduate to semi solid. I'd like to try a parmesan before the end of the year.

I've conquered beer making, yogurt, wine, bread, vinegar.

Luc


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the "green can?" It's been mentioned several times in this and other threads.

Shel


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## devilnuts (Mar 5, 2007)

I'm assuming the green can of grated cheese, like kraft.


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

green can:

http://www.kraftfoods.com/KraftParm/parmProducts.htm

Interesting how they do this stuff by the way... 
They use cheese making ingredients and techniques but accelerate the process by increasing the temperature, using more digesting enzymes and manipulate the pH (acidity).

Essentially, it's a fast process that takes weeks instead of months (years).

Luc


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Like this? I did a search on Kraft grated cheese and found this. Looks to be awful! Why would anyone want to use this stuff!?










Shel


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

bingo Shel!
you found it!
Luc


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## anneke (Jan 5, 2001)

Notice the uncanny (no pun intended) resemblance to a can of Comet.


Coincidence?


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## bluezebra (May 19, 2007)

LOL Shel! Back in the 60's and early 70's my family was pretty much southernese. Things like "Eye-talian" food were very glamorous and exotic  and we thought the cheese was pronounce "Par-meeee-see-ann" Cheese!  so I think maybe for some of us learning about new things just takes time and introduction plus having a budget that allows you to spend more on luxuries like parmigiano reggiano! Not all of us can afford authentic stuff!


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## cat man (May 7, 2007)

Luc
You mentioned that you bought some rennet.
Was it the real stuff from rumminent animal stomach, or the synthetic type?

Cat Man


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

Of course Mr. Cat, I went for the real stuff to establish a point of reference and start as authentic as possible and learn the science and art of cheese making (the art comes usually second)

description and ingredient statement:
pure calf rennet powder
The ingredient list for rennet powder is:
salt (sodium chloride)
dried extract of rennet enzymes (bovine chymosin, bovine pepsin)
bovine gelatine (processing aid)

I ordered it only last Friday. I should get it this week (regular post)
I purchased 100g which 2 or 3 g can coagulate 100Lt of whole milk.

Good thing I have a lab balance (digital precision scale) in my kitchen.

Luc


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## anneke (Jan 5, 2001)

Luc, I hope you will post your results. Sounds like a fun experiment. What kind of cheese will you be starting with? Where will you be getting your milk from? Are you sticking to cow or are you exploring goat and/or sheep?


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

Hi Anneke,

(I didn't think this experiment would generate some interest...)

I will probably start with the most simple: cream cheese/neufchatel (it uses rennet) then followed closely with feta then mozzarella.

I will use plain cow's whole milk for my first trials. I know myself too well that after any success, I will start hunting for goat and raw milk. My wife loves a good chèvre (goat cheese). That is one goal and parmesan is another.

Posting my results is a good idea. I've been doing yogurt now for close a year. I have a hard time going back to the commercial stuff. (Maybe I can post that recipe first... no equipment required really)
Luc


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## anneke (Jan 5, 2001)

If you have a chance, try making sheep milk yogurt. There's nothing like it. If possible, try to get the freshest milk you possibly can, preferebly less than 24 hours old. It will make a huge difference, particularly with your ripened cheese when you are ready to conquer that category. I co-teach a cheese appreciation class; one of our students picked home cheesemaking as her class project. We were all quite impressed with her results. She made fromage frais with cow and goat milk. Her observation: you always underestimate how much whey you end up with. The good news is that whey is delicious and very healthy so don't throw it out. Make ricotta with it perhaps... Good luck Luc!

PS: Guelph University is a great resource if you want to learn more about home cheese making.


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

Hi Anneke.

I know Guelph U. (thanks for the tip)
Being in Québec, I can also rely on many other sources of information like St-Hyacinth, MacDonald Campus (McGill) and more.
I tend to try my hand first, learn from my mistake and redo. I always have an experiment going at home. (I used to cultivate my own yeast when making beer, I had a library of 12 strains at one time)
I teach only one course in food science at college (CEGEP) and family nutrition/home cooking/simple food science in the evenings. I have recently made a career change out of the food industry (20years). 
I only work part time (eventually I hope to make a living in food science/teaching)

Thanks for reminding me about the whey.

Luc


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## allie (Jul 21, 2006)

The same can be said for my family. I worked in a (Bi-Lo) grocery store where I grew up in Georgia and can't recall ever seeing any real parmesan. Same goes for other stores, I shopped in. Between lack of availability in small towns and cost, I can see why people go with the green can. Heck, I just now found the aged 18 months and haven't seen any other kinds at that store or others. I live in a rural area of Indiana now. Some things just aren't available and people make do with what they have and can find.


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## allie (Jul 21, 2006)

Luc, please do share your experiments! I think it sounds very interesting!


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## bluezebra (May 19, 2007)

Yep allie if I had to guess, Kraft wanted to bring this product to the masses. But in order to do that they had to make it cost efficient to produce at a price the market (mass/broad appeal) would bear (which for mid to low mid class is pretty inexpensive comparitively speaking). So hence all the additives and the speed of production/aging etc. So you have a reasonably acceptable facsimile for the price point.


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## allie (Jul 21, 2006)

Well, I learned this weekend that my fears of change were warranted. I started getting low on the parmesan and went in hoping to get some more. I've noticed they had reduced it little by little over time and the last time I bought it the price was only $2.99/lb. There was none on the shelf and I asked an associate if they were no longer carrying it. He said that at $2.99/lb they still couldn't get anyone to buy it so will no longer carry that product. I am so disappointed. This was my only source close to home without driving 45+ miles. Now my family is convinced this is the only way to go so the cheap green can will no longer work for them. Les spent some time searching online and found some pretty good prices if you buy a pound at the time. Having never ordered from those companies and never tasted the products they carry, I am a bit wary. What do we do now that we've aquired this taste?


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## mikelm (Dec 23, 2000)

Devil-
They're about $12 at any good kitchen store- or woodworkers store. They started as a wood rasp until the people at Lee Valley pointed out how good they are in the kitchen.

Try one, you'll never be without it. When you're not cooking, you can do woodwork.

Mike


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Hi Allie,

There are a few good, reputable sources for buying Reggiano on line, and were I in your position, that's what I'd do. Murray's Cheese in NYC is a source I'd highly recommend. The last time i checked, Murray's had two or three Reggianos at different price points. If you're feeling adventurous, get a half pound of each and do a little taste test to see which you like best.

There are numerous things to learn about Reggiano. I hope you'll take some time to research how the cheese is made, something about the taste of different ages and the seasons in which the cheese is produced, maybe even some of the producers.

Reggiano is truly one of the world's greatest cheeses.

shel.


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## allie (Jul 21, 2006)

Thanks for the recommendation, Shel. It will probably be after Christmas before I can really afford to order much of anything except gifts. lol I'm bookmarking the site and will definitely check it out. Ordering will be a lot easier than driving so far to try and find what I need.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

I know people like that to this day ...


shel


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## ironchefatl (Dec 1, 2002)

Here is a link to the Consorzio, in case yall aint seen it yet. I got lots of great pictures from this site once. Consorzio del Formaggio Parmigiano-Reggiano The button for English is in the bottom right hand side.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Great link! Thanks ....

shel


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## roncoox (Dec 30, 2007)

A cheese made in Italy can only be called a PM if it has aged at least 12 months. Most good cheesemakers age it 24. Someone earlier posted that cheeses aged less than 24 months were called Stravecchio and were somehow inferior. Actually "vecchio" means "old" in Italian. Real Stravecchios are aged 30 months or more. Costco sells a good one here in the SF Bay Area at a very good price. Any US cheese that calls itself Straveccio is pretty much a hurried bogus cheese when compared to Italian. Some win prizes, yes, but they are competing with other less than superior products. Good PM = time ... time = $. That said I use domestic Parmasians and Romanas when cooking, but for grated on the top stuff...only 2+ year old Italian. I'm a 60 year old 1/2 Italian guy with a grandfather from Parma so I may be a little biased. We always had a spare wheel sitting around (have to let the flies hatch out ya know) waiting to replace the one we were using (we supplied the extended family) ...they were shipped by relatives in Parma. Ah, the good old days.


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## mikelm (Dec 23, 2000)

Well, the indispensible Cook's Illustrated just published a Q & A on PR substitutes (Nov-Dec'07)

They tested Grana Padano, an Italian cheese aged from 9 to 24 months and goes for about $12/pound, and Reggianito, an Argentine cheese made using northern Italy's techniques. It's aged no more than 12 months and goes for about $7/lb.

They pay about $17/lb for their "favorite grocery-store PM."

The Gran Padano they judged just fair, and not really worth the relatively small savings over the PR.

The Reggianito was unacceptable at _any_ price. 

I can buy a real PM sliced off their wheel at a local Italian deli/market for $12/lb and consider myself lucky. :bounce:

Mike


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

It's not hard to find Reggiano here starting from around $12.00/lb as well. Trader Joe's is now carrying a Strevecchio for just a little more than that.

shel


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