# Career Changing? Read This.



## nicko

If you are thinking of or on the road to changing your present career to becoming a professional chef please take some time and read the online journal of Logan Worley on ChefTalk.com. Logan did the career change and went to Johnson & Wales culinary school and kept an online journal of the entire experience while attending culinary school. His entire journal is online at ChefTalk.com under the culinary student journal.

A Day In The Life of An American Culinary Student


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## nickhand

Ok about the fork in the career path. Where is the back parts of it? Thier is more too it but i cant find the rest of it. Thanks for the help


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## shaolin bushido

Wow, that was very considerate of him to record that. What a resource for anyone interested in becoming a chef! I didn't read it all, because it's 0330 but I skimmed it and the reality of it all does make you consider whether you want to go through it or not ... in my case, I'm excited and goose-bumped right now at the prospect of tackling a new, interesting challenge and getting out of the law enforcement/corrections rut-grave I feel I'm in now.

Thanks to the Chef and Chef talk for displaying that thread for us.


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## laprise

Wow, that's great!

It almost makes me want to start all over again

The number one adive I give highschool students when I speak, is simply to try to work in a restaurant for a few days. Sometimes, people find out that loving to cook or being good at making pies is not necessarely the best reason to become a chef or pastry chef. 

Logan's paper is a must read if you are set for your new career...


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## chefc81

I hear ya'! I get gooseumbs just thinking about cooking and reading things about it! It's calling us!

Have a great day!

~~ChefC81~~


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## kittycat

I am a home cook considering culinary school. I have been reading on these forums that one really should work in or observe a restaurant before even applying. Considering that working in a commercial kitchen is a completely different ballgame than thinking in teaspoons and cups at home, what could I possibly offer to do in a kitchen? (I am in graudate school for an unrelated subject and on-campus dining includes delis, fast food, a full service restuarant and a faculty dining room.) I have no food service or waitressing experience whatsoever. My chopping is slow and not up to the standards of a professional kitchen. I am hesitant to ask because a restaurant is a busy business and I don't want to slow anyone down (or look like an idiot!). Has anyone had the experience of starting from square one? The food service department seems to encourage applications.


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## sgmchef

Greetings to all,
Here are a couple of personal thoughts for all you. Definitely go work at a restaurant first. Get a feel or a taste for a commercial restaurant operation. As stated above, you may not like it. But also understand that not all food operations are created equal! I have worked for really good chefs and I have also worked for chefs that were not even good cooks! I recommend a family style restaurant where they actually still prepare food from scratch. You will always be able to learn how to thaw and brown pre-prepared items! The salad department would be a good place or really just about anywhere, including the dish room. All you have to do is get your foot in the door and believe in yourself!

Understand that most restaurants have a set menu and once you get your mind wrapped around the fact that most items are repetitive in nature. You will always have to prep for the same five salads EVERY DAY. You have to make sure you have enough of every ingredient for every dish on the set menu EVERY DAY. Even in a cafeteria most items are on a cycle. Every Wednesday is Meatloaf, WooHoo! Your supervisor will want you to show some speed. If you have to scrub fifty pounds of potatoes, do it as quickly as you can and still clean them to the standard that they expect. Ask questions or for a demonstration. Whoever your supervisor is will show you their technique for doing the task as quickly as they can. Your speed will pick up through repetition. You will get the hang of doing this fairly quickly, I hope. Trust me, after you crack a couple cases of eggs, you will be faster than when you first started!

When working in a kitchen, keep your eyes and ears open. Just because you may start in the salad area doesn't mean you can't listen to discussions about what they are going to do with the fresh Swordfish they just got in for today's special. You just have to keep working! 

I would highly recommend working in a restaurant before attending a culinary school. This will give you a filter for certain topics. I worked in Restaurants for three years before school. When the teacher was talking about possible job opportunities they covered the full gamut. What they DIDN'T say was that there really isn't that many true Saucier or Garde Manger positions available. Some of my fellow students didn't believe me when I said that there are precious few of those jobs around. 

OK, I'm rambling…. 

Last thoughts; I believe that the preparation of food is about 80% science and 20% inspiration and heart. Focus on the technique and not the recipe. Learn why things happen, like why the potato salad tasted great yesterday and seems flat today. Hmm.. better learn about the properties of salt and what effects it has on various food items. Osmosis maybe?


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## chef cary

Hi, All!

I was in the medical field for the last 24 years. (I'm 42). In January, I jumped in with both feet into a Culinary Apprenticeship program. 

I've ALWAYS wanted to cook for a living. Way back then, my family said I had to do something "worthwhile", and apparently they didn't think cooking was it!. 

I have to tell you - I'm having the time of my life!!!!!

I'm working in a professional kitchen right now, in a homestyle restaurant. It's not what I want to do with my life, but it's kitchen experience. 

I'd never even stepped into the kitchen of a restaurant before this past May. The first time in the kitchen was after I was already hired. It helped that I was a student. I wasn't taken seriously by any of the other cooks - in fact, they resented me because I was going to school for a trade that they'd been working at for 5+ years. "It wasn't fair", they told me. I simply told them that they were more than welcome to go to school, too, if they wanted. 

I really did have a deep inner desire to do this. And now - I'm being paid to "play" in the kitchen! Oh, please don't think that as simplistic or derogatory - quite the contrary. I am doing what I LOVE, what I have a passion for - and though it's hard work, it IS fun. Constantly and consistently. 

I know, I know.... you'll say the honeymoon period will be over someday and I'll crash. All I can say is - I don't think so, because there is SO much to learn, and I am living my dream. I refuse to stay in a job where I'm not happy, and I'll keep learning and growing until I find what I want again. 

I'll be the first one to tell any prospective cooks - GO FOR IT! Don't regret waiting, like I did. Though, to be honest - I do appreciate it SO much more now. 

Cary in OHio
Culinary student


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## beanie

Cary, I am going through a similar situation.
People are saying, I'm too old, to stick with what I've got.
Yet you're ten years older than me.
And like you, I have an inner desire to do this. 
I simply want more.
And I realise it's not going to be smooth sailing.
And I don't care that I can't currently chop parsley at 235kph.
But I want to learn.
Thank you. I so needed to read this.


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## beagle65

I have just jumped on board and am starting to read through the threads especially those centered around starting off and going to school and/or getting kitchen experience. I know that when I think and talk about the challange of learning the work I get pretty darn excited. I can tell you that I am ready for the big change and have held off for 3 years while my wife completed Law School.


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## quine

Hi!

Posted a little note in the intro forum. Might as well say hello here as this fits me to a T...

Have I ever worked in a restaurant? No.

Have I cooked for lots of people? Well sometimes... I've catered and help cater a few weddings, worked the kitchen of a ski lodge some weekends many years back (family style very simple menu). But most of the cooking I've done was for two or four or maybe a few more. I've been doing it for over 30 years. Meats, vegies, casseroles, soups, sauces, barbq, pan-sear, bake, steam, sautee, etc. I've always enjoyed cooking, at least as an amateur!

So when I got divorced a little over a year ago, and then my company announced a forced early-retirement buyout, I decided to take my money, abandon my 24 year career in information services, and put myself through a nice new chef-owned culinary school called "The Professional Culinary Institute" (PCI) near San Jose California...

It's a 5 and a half month program. I start Jan 16. Following school is an 8 week externship. After that who knows. My inclination is to look for high end restaurant work. I want to make food from scratch whether its sauces, soups, salads, or entres I'm actually doing. I don't know how realistic that is. I don't mind starting in prep or any other place in the kitchen, but I'd like to work someplace high-end. Again I don't know if that's a realistic expectation, but I'm sure going to try... 

Otherwise, I don't really know what I'll end up liking best in the industry. I'll keep an open mind through school and let opportunities present themselves, try to be alert to them, learn as much as I can, read as much as I can -- I've read some Escoffier and I'm reading about the restaurant industry now, a 1992 book called "Restaurants that Work" (Martin Dorf) a case study of 8 successful restaurants cause I want to understand the business (though I have no intention at this point of owning a restaurant), and I did read Bourdain's "Kitchen Confidential"... That book scared the **** out of me, but not enough to dissuade me from my madness!

More later... Yes I'll start a blog here of someplace... I'll share my experience, at school and following.. I want to see where I pop up a year from Jan 16! Where ever it is, it's going to be interesting...

Good night for now... More later.

Matthew


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## lynscal

*WOW, you go Cary. I am in similar place 47 and starting culinary school tomorrow after over 30 years in my successful career. Cooking is my passion and I am so excited. Thanks for your post, very encouraging!!*

*lyn*


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## coffeelover

Wow, it's nice to know I'm not to only who has gone through this. I just got out of high school and I finally decided to become a chef. Through all of high school I wanted to be an actress and I really had the stuff for it, but, I think, two days after I graduated I changed my mind and I spent most of this year confused about what I should do until my parents suggested I try becoming a chef. I've always loved to cook and I'm really good at it. So, this fall, I'm starting school and I feel so great to finally have direction again!


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## quine

So where are you going to go? How long a program is it, and what are you going to do between now and then?

I've started now... It's fast, frenetic, and a lot of fun... But it's hard work too, and a little like the army. I hope you will take to it...


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## benrias

I read the journal a few years ago and it made a big impression on me to get that kitchen experience BEFORE going to culinary school. I am now finally in a position to attempt to change careers and I am trying to get the experience.

It's nice to read these posts. They give me encouragment to keep trying to get into a kitchen somewhere. Now that I have made the decision to change careers, I am starting to get discouraged by the number of places that just DON'T WANT me there. 

At one place, I couldn't even get past the hostess when I asked to speak with the chef. I explained to her that I was looking to get kitchen experience, and she immediately turned the situation into a "oh, he is just here to apply for a job even though we aren't advertising any openings."

But then when she saw my resume, she was almost appalled that I would even THINK about working in a restaurant and wouldn't let it go. "Wha? Why do you want to work here? Wha? I just don't get it. I guess I can hand this to the chef but...wha? What do you wanna do THAT for? Wha?" (and yes, I restructured my resume to emphasize my kitchen skills).

I know of a few places where I could probably get in, but I am trying to stay away from pre-fabbed food places or "unwrap and cook" restaurants. there are a lot more of those out there than I ever really noticed. But now that I am looking, I now realize the stark proportion of pre-fab vs. scratch made places. 

And, thanks to Logan's journal, I am even considering baking and pastery--something I had not even considered before. Being just a little bit older like Logan, his descriptions of the physical strain on your body and knees opened my eyes a little more to the reality of kitchen life. 

I am taking all his insights to heart and weighing all options. Here's my delayed thanks for your journal Logan!:smiles:


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## neci-ized

I too was a career changer, nor am I a spring chicken. After retiring from the military I went back to college full time at New England Culinary Institute in Vermont.
They have great programs both Culinary and Baking and Pastry. I see you read the journal that recomended cooking exp first..If you have it great but I had very limited as well as a good many students here and have no problems keeping up.
I am finishing my B.A in Culinary arts next month and have never regreted the choice I made! Check it out, dont worry if you have little exp, somtimes that can be a benefit as you dont have bad habits to break!


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## chef_trainee

I do have one piece of advice for anyone going in to culinary school for the first time. Get a part time job, anywhere from 10-15 hours a week. I went through school without a job. I ended in the top 5, so I am confident in my skills. I also did a lot of volunteer work. But a job will help you with use your skills in a live kitchen, and it will help when it comes time to do you externship.
I wish you all good luck in school, and never give up. And always remember one thing, My chef must love me, cause he is always yelling my name.


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## rosieobloom

Hello everybody,
I was just wondering how to find a good community college for culinary arts in Sacramento. I am a baker with some hot line skills. They have several different cooking schools listed. I would like to tie up any lose ends on the hot line end (such as butter sauces, hollandaise, etc and learn how to cut and prepare meats and fish. Any responses would be appreciated.


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## gosselil

It's nice to see so many corporate refugees opting for this route as well. After 15 years of working in offices, I decided last Fall to leave the desk and the computer screen behind for the kitchen. I had taken a series of "Serious Foodie" classes at a local private professional culinary school in town and fell in love with the craft and discipline. I enrolled for the Professional 15-week Diploma last January and graduated in April. It certainly was an experience of a lifetime. Definitely pushed me to the limits and I'm thrilled I made it through (came in second in my class of 23). Not bad for a 45-year old...:suprise:

I now work for a catering company and I only hope at this point, to be honest, I will be able to make a living out of it. Jobs are plentiful in my town, but salaries unfortunately are very low in this field. 

Anybody have any advice on this subject?


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## sgmchef

Greetings all,

As I read the entries from just out of High school to career jumping a “little” after school. One thing applies across the board. There is no replacement for knowledge and experience! The harder you work NOW; the better off you will be in the long term. 

rosieobloom, stay late or come in early to learn from someone that is really good at those Butter sauces and learn how they do them to include how to save those sauces if they start to head south on you! Same for seafood and meats, find the teacher in your operation and take advantage. An experienced chef will appreciate you seeking him/her out for advice since it strokes their ego! The more time you invest now the greater your “value” to another employer. 

When I was a culinary student and the meat Lab at school was not scheduled to be complete until after I graduated, I went to a local butcher shop to learn. The butcher told me his wife and his daughters ran the front and he and his sons ran the back and he didn’t need any help. I said I would work for free. He said, “OK then!” That very first day I learned to dismantle a side of beef and did a LOT of Beef tenderloin cleaning and portion cutting! At the end of the day he sent me home with about $80 worth of various meat, mostly Tenderloin tips, and I went back each Saturday for a couple of months to my “No pay” job and went home with meat! Working there also exposed me to networking with the various customers and clients. Since it isn’t always what you know, but who you know, this is a valuable commodity! I got a letter of recommendation too!

Lesson- at least consider working at another place or coming in on your own time to get that knowledge in exchange for your time. You can never have too much knowledge or friends and connections in this business.

I know gosselil, you are already concerned about the financial aspects, but the more time and effort you invest now the better off you will be. If you were to go to the local employer that offers the best salaries in town and flatter them by saying, “I am just starting in the business and I heard you are the best restaurant in town. I would love to learn and would work for free one night a week just to see how things SHOULD be done!” That may very well lead to employment there once they see your attitude and hard work! 

I got hired on at a Marriott that was not even hiring at the time with this technique. I ended up being the swingman and working wherever they needed me. On any given night I would work the hot line for one of the three restaurants, the other I worked in the Banquet Dept, next night etc. Because of my hard work, I ended up on the corporate team that opened the J.W. Marriott in DC. The corporate Chef, that opens all new Marriott’s, asked me to join his team if I ever wanted to leave the military. This was not because I was some Super Chef with all the knowledge in the world; it was because he saw how much of a motivated hard worker I was! (He was surprised how quickly I did those 1,000 Canapés with attention to detail and quick hands!) 

Employers are always looking for hard working, dependable, motivated staff!


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## cfbrooklyn

Love it! Thanks for the article!


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## cristina1

Dear all,

I am new on this site and i am very happy that I found it. It seems very interesting and useful. 

i got into this discussion as I am also thinking to make a change and cooking has always been a hobby. I am interested to find out what are the best schools in Europe and which would be worth going to. Also, I would like to know if I could start with a workshop of one or two weeks and if so, where would be better to go?

Thank you very much in advance and hope to make a lot of friends here.

I wish you an excellent year in 2009 with a lot of good luck and success in all your endeavours!

Cristina


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## jtobin625

Before giving any advice, what is your situation? Are you well-off? What is your current career and what are your expectations from a career in the food industry? Where do you currently live?

The reason why I ask about your financial situation is that Europe is expensive. The exchange rate is massive and you are not eligible for financial aid. 

With all that being said, Le Cordon Bleu in London or Paris are very well known and respected.


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## richardnixon

I am not interested in culinary field. Is there any placement opportunities?


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## cristina1

Hi,

Thanks for the answer.
I am finance director right now but it is definitely not the field where I perform best. I like practical things and my expectation from a career in the food industry is to work hard but also get rewarded - by the pleasure of doing it and the pleasure of the people enjoying the results of my work. I am not sure how it is from the financial point of view but I guess it is at least decent. I am Romanian and work in Romania, so this is why I am thinking to attend an european school. My salary is ok and also have some savings but I think I cannot stop completely now from working. This is why I asked if I can attend some workshops initially.

Thanks again.
Cristina


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## jtobin625

Cristina,

Thanks for clarifying. I made the assumption you were in the US. If you cannot change careers until later in the year, why don't you volunteer your time at a local bakery, restaurant, etc to just get some experience and see how you like it first? 

Other than that, I would recommend speaking with someone at LCB in London or Paris.


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## cristina1

Hello,

This is an excellent idea. I feel silly for not thinking myself of it. Thanks a lot. I'll do it and let you know.
In the meantime I have already looked at LCB site and saw the periods of time, prices, strcuture of programmes, etc.

Do you mind me asking you what is your name? It's strange not being able to say "Dear ..."

Best wishes,
Cristina


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## cristina1

Dear SGMChef,

I have read your article and found it extremely interesting and useful as I was wondering about how to make a change, what way to go and how to see if I really like it. I just got the advice from another member of this site about volunteering to a local patisserie or restaurant before making a decision and I find this a really great idea. Your message completed the picture. It is very important for me, expecially that I work in a totally different field and I am already 41 (but young at heart I would say). Still, I need to feel happy with what I am doing and I am looking for this happiness. 

All the best wishes,
Cristina


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## jtobin625

Cristina,

My name is Jeff. And I saw your message to another poster and wanted to add that your mindset is the only thing that can limit you. Age is essentially irrelevent in MANY situations, including yours. 

Keep us all posted and good luck to you.


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## bigheat

A good read. Very informative.


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## stacey1273

I went to culinary school in 2003 after 10 years in accounting(non degreed) and got a job in a kitchen. I stayed in the kitchen as a prep and line cook, but due to life happening and money not, I went back to accounting after just one year,,,,,,and due to hours in accounting,,,the school i went to didn't work around it, so i ended up leaving that too, which sucked, i loved life in the kitchen....well, fast forward to 2009, I lost my accounting job in sept 2008, to only be unemployed and finally landed a job back in the culinary field as a prep cook in a cafeteria again this past March. Yes, the money sucks again, but hey, I love what I do, yes it is redundant, it can be grueling but that's a challenge and if you are never challenged on your job, it get's boring, and I love it. At age 37, I decided this time, I am staying to do what I love and money will come from somewhere eventually, even if I have to take a second part time job elsewhere. I guess this was meant to be,,,,and the great part is, after not being in culinary and being a school drop out, someone is still willing to take a chance on me,,,and to those who are afraid, cuz you are older, and slow and don't understand and feel like you can't handle the pressures of a kitchen,,,,,think about how you got to where you are now in the field you work,,,,it didn't happen in one day...speed comes with time, and any good chef will tell you they want you to learn it the right way and be consistent first instead of being so quick you consistently mess it up......keep your head up.....also some chefs love someone they can teach to do things their own way. When I first started back in 2003, I spent a whole month basically chopping salad and cutting deli meats and cheeses then moved onto different stuff,,,,,and even though it didn't work out the first time, it gave me something to go back to when other things didn't work out.


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## fire34fighter

Hi,

I was thinking of trying to do culinary school, however the only way i'd be able to do it is to keep my job I have now. I'm currently employed as a firefighter in Maryland, and work 24 hours on, followed by 48 hours off. I was wondering if it'd be possible to go to culinary school with a schedule like this. If I missed a class here and there when I couldn't get a swap would I be kicked out? Are there any online schools if this is not possible?


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## the tourist

Does the culinary industry allow people who wish to learn the craft go and *apprentice* with a noted chef?

Yes, I know, you might have to "wax on, wax off" doing fetch n' carry work for a sous-chef, but it might be a valuable source of hands on style education.

You may even be paid to learn...

(BTW, I quit my 'adult job' for a second career. I encourage it. Go for it. As incentive, if you become a student, I'll sharpen your knives for free. )


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## jtobin625

Look up on www.acfchefs.com to see if there are any schools in your area or if there are any possible apprenticeships.

Also, if any online programs do exist for culinary, avoid them.


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## sharpened

this is really interesting. I have been seriously considering switching careers to that of culinary arts. I'm hesitant, so the posting of this journal is a great support. Thanks!


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## vagabundo

Hello all, 
I'm new here.
I'm in my late thirties & considering a change of career . 
I would like to know if anyone has any idea about good pastry schools in Canada or France/Belgium/Germany/Spain/Austria/UK or Switzerland?

Thanks for you help.

:thumb:


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## farmfreshjake

I have always enjoyed being in the kitchen. Even at a young age I would help my grandmother make dinner on Sundays, and as I got older I would help relieve her of the cooking duties. 

I ended up going to engineering school, an I enjoyed it for the first year. Then as the economy slipped, I lost my job. I found a new job working with the family construction company, but I haven't enjoyed it at all. I often find myself looking forward to coming home and making dinner for myself and my gf. After talking about it I determined that I really do love to cook. My grandmother was a pastry chef, and owned a bakery, and my grandfather was a butcher. My mother is in charge of purchasing for a grocery store chain, and my uncle owns the grocery store chain. You could say that I was born to work in the food industry.

I have been looking at schools for a while now, and I have yet to make my decision. I haven't worked out all of the details yet, but I am. While saving money to put towards school.


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## rawby

Hello , great site. I too am changing my career, full time auto tech by day , culinary student by night, I have never worked in a restaurant type of business, so it will be difficult knowing the money won't be the same , but the love of the food and the cooking as well as seeing the looks of happiness on peoples faces when they eat your food is worth it. I was fortunate enough to find a school at night that fit into my schedule and also volunteer for some other culinary clases they have for 1 night courses......at 50 years old I'm finally gonna go for happiness cause i might as well be happy and broke than be miserable and broke ....lol


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## gnnairda

I live in Edmonton Alberta and I'm interested in moving to Toronto to attend George Brown's culinary program. I have no restaurant experience and if I am to apply it would be part time. I got another semester to finish until I get my diploma in laboratory technology. I plan on saving up for a year before I go the year after next year. When I apply would it be rude if I just dropped off the resume to someone else or should I go directly to the manager.


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## vagabundo

That sounds impressive. May I ask you, @ what age did you start your cokking study ? I'm 39yrs now & Im thinking to go into cooking school , & more specifically into bakery & pastry . Your story inspired me & I'm thinking of the next step to do. How to really quit my job & start all over new @ the age of 40! It's kinda scary but I DO wanna do it !


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## raynefox

In high school I worked in a bakery at one of those buffet/feeding troughs in the midwest. Fast forward to college, working at a grocery store deli/bakery. 

I'm 25. I've been out of college for a few years. I lived in China, moved back home and now I work for a non-profit organization. I know what I do is rewarding...but in the back of my mind. I'm still in the kitchen.

I cook for friends and family, and I know that the commercial operations were not enough to prepare me for the fast-paced high stress restaurant world. But I'm know. I'm happiest in the kitchen.

I read the dissent about culinary school or not. I have an appointment to meet with an adviser next week. It should be a foot (albeit a pricey one) in the door. I know though, that I am ready for things to get real. This isn't just a career change. It is a life change. And I am SO ready.


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## a.d.injapan

I just wanted to thank the sage advise of working a little bit every week for free. 
I have just embarked on working for free one day a week for the evening shift. 
While it's a Japanese Bar that I work for, I'm learning how to make the food I love. 
It's strange really, the man I wanted to teach me [the owner] (specializes in Western Cooking) doesn't teach me anything at all, and the other Chef (specializes in Japanese Cooking) teaches me a lot.

Today I was peeling a daikon (Chinese Radish) outer skin/inner core with a knife, then I cut the radish into planks and match-sticked them. All the while I was maintaining the Japanese push-cutting technique. 
Anyway, I wanted to thank the one who recommended volunteering time for skill.

A.D.


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## sourdough67

Hi Nicko, sorry I can't access this link, is there anything you can do?


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## oetzi

Here is the link sourdough.

http://www.cheftalk.com/a/a-day-in-the-life-of-an-american-culinary-student-blog

Have fun!


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