# yeast donuts and troubleshhoting



## chefscott6767 (Jun 3, 2009)

hey all, i am a self taught chef, with not a lot of baking experience.
i am currently in vietnam, helping out friends who have decided to
open up a donut shop in hanoi. after some trial and lots of errors,
haha....we have gotten cake donuts under control. very happy with
them. yeast donuts have been giving me fits lately. i have been
learning on the job how technical and precise baking has to be for a
novice. i was lucky enough to work with a guy who had taught at the
CIA, and he impressed this fact upon me. so, i am working hard to have
things as controlled as possible--flours, yeasts, enviroment,
temperature.....

before we had a proofing box, we were taking the donuts to rise
upstairs where it's hot, and dry(some days it's humid and rainy) and
the results would obviously differ. some days perfect risen and fried
donuts, other days hollow shells. but now that we have the proofer,
it's still hit or miss. my friends purchased the donut making DVD from
ed chastain , and while it's a little
confusing sometimes, i'm trying to make it work.

here's the recipe we are using:

YEAST DONUT WITH MASHED POTATO
1134g SIFTED FLOUR
115g SCRAP DOUGH

½ CUP MILK
½ CUP BUTTERMILK
1/8 CUP ICE WATER 35g
½ CUP SUGAR
½ CUP SHORTENING
2 TABLESPOON SALT
1 tspoon vanilla powder
MELT SHORTENING IN PAN WITH ½ CUP MILK , SUGAR AND SALT. WHEN MELTED,
ADD ½ CUP BUTTERMILK AND ICE WATER

1 CUP WARM WATER
28g YEAST
3 EGGS
½ CUP WARM MASHED POTATO


COMBINE YEAST AND WATER IN MIXING BOWL, AND LET ACTIVATE 5 MINUTES.
ADD EGGS AND WARM MASHED POTATO AND MIX WITH WHISK. CHANGE TO PADDLE,
AND ADD ½ OF FLOUR, ½ OF MILK MIXTURE AND MIX 1 MINUTE, SCRAPING BOWL.
CHANGE TO DOUGH HOOK, AND ADD REMAINING MILK MIX AND FLOUR, SCRAPING
BOWL. ADD SCRAP DOUGH AND MIX TILL ELASTIC, DOUGH PULLS AWAY FROM
BOWL, AND CAN BE STRETCHED 4-5 INCHES BEFORE BREAKING.




in the e-book, with your calculations for the brew, you use a room
temp for the flour as 71F. ours is 85F. we have tried to change and
adapt the recipe to get the final "brew" temp down to 82-85F, for
example--heating the milk to 210F, then adding the shortening,
buttermilk, cold mashed potato, eggs, sugar....to try and get the
liquid as cold as possible to keep the final dough temp at 82-85F.
today we even put the flour in the fridge for 2hrs.

we follow the recipe exactly with weights and measures, including
scrap dough----we are using instant yeast as opposed to fresh---and
our dough comes out of the mixer at 90F normally. it has a good
texture, like in the DVD, i do not think we are over or under mixing.
when we give it "bench time" of 30 minutes at a room temp of 75-80F,
nothing happens. no rise in the dough, no temp increase which would
show the yeast working. is it because our dough is 90F? will the yeast
not activate at 90F? even when we chilled the flour, and got our dough
temp after mixing down to 85F, we had the same result. no action with
the dough at room temp. when we then take the dough and put it in the
dry proofer in our bowl at 100F, we get action after 30 min.

we then "loaf/ball" the dough, but once again, at room temp of 75-80,
we get no action with the dough--no double in size, no velvet
consistency, like you get from just leaving it on the bench. what is
your average room temp in your donut shop??? if we put it in the
proofer for another 30min at 100F, we get a nice rise from the proof,
like in the video DVD

after the "loaf/ball' step is complete, after the 2nd rise, we then
roll and cut. in the DVD, you use a dough docker to "relax" the dough.
we do not have one yet, but are having one brought to us by a friend
from the usa soon. how important is docking the dough to the final
donut rise??? we have tried poking some holes with plastic forks---i
know, not quite the same thing....and it didn't have any effect on the
final rise.

when you put the donuts in the "humid" proof, because "yeast donuts
love humidity" is there actual steam in the air? or just warm
water--providing the moisture? we have been making actual steam in our
proofer, and while we get a decent rise, it's not as high as in the
DVD. is it bad, if it is TOO humid? will this effect the proof height?
we then move the donuts to the "dry" proofer, to form the shell, and
dry the donuts out before frying.

on the plus side, our donuts remain the same size when we fry them,
just like yours in the DVD. but as i said before, we need 1/2" more
rise for perfect donuts

sometimes they absorb too much grease......by how much do you
increase the shortening in the dough to prevent this? and if we follow
the recipe exactly, by how much should we decrease the sugar or salt
if it is affecting the yeast in the initial mixing and fermentation?

we are using 10-10.5% protein flour right now. is this too light in
protein for good rising yeast donuts?

we are using SAF brand instant yeast. is fresh yeast better and
more active and consistent for a good rise in the dough?

has anyone ever heard of using bread flour, or mixing in some high
gluten and really working the dough? from everything i have seen, you
want to be somewhat careful not to overmix the dough, or you will get
tough yeast donuts.

i googled "yeast donut troubleshooting", and got some helpful ideas....but
while helpful, it seems there are no clear cut magic answers in
baking, just like in life!!!

so we will keep on experimenting.......

if anyone had the time to read all of this, and has any tips or
suggestions, it would be greatly appreciated, thanks scott


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## canadatogo (Mar 3, 2007)

Right, I'm going to try to help you with a couple things. I've not done cake donuts, but I'll point out some general things, and hopefully someone else can help with the specifics!

First, what's with heating the milk to 210F? In the video that you're using, do they make the same quantity of dough? I know that when you mix really big quantities of dough in mixers, you don't use any water at all, all the water is added as ice, otherwise, due to the friction from the mixer, the dough temp would be way too high. So have you tried lowering the temperature of the liquid? This would be more efficient than having to refrigerate flour. Check on the forum for formulas to work out the required temperature (I've got it in my books somewhere, but I'm halfway between moving right now...)

When you're resting the dough on the bench, I'm assuming it's covered with plastic? (That'll help keep the moisture in better) Docking makes sure that the dough rises evenly, so I assume that it's mostly to ensure an even, consistent product here. If the recipe seems pretty solid, don't change the quantity of sugar or salt at all, use the bakers' percentage to make sure it's correct. Too much of one or the other with kill off the yeast. You said that they sometimes absorb too much grease? Is your fryer hot enough? Are you frying quite large batches? I tend to prefer fresh yeast; that's just personal preference. Try switching just to see if it makes any difference for you. I know that I can check the quality of fresh yeast, I'm not so sure I'd be able to do as well with instant yeast though.

It sounds like it's quite warm there (if you're having to refrigerate flour...), so you'll probably have to start playing about with temperatures, and I'm afraid I can't help you too much there.

Good luck!
Andrea


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## chefscott6767 (Jun 3, 2009)

hey andrea, thanks for the reply. the DVD we bought said yeast donuts "love humidity", but we were using too much. the temp of the dough is ok now, we had too change our method a little, but it's working well now. the biggest factors were a longer rise, we got a dough docker, and a drier proof after rolling and cutting. hope to have them nailed by the end of the week!! peace, scott


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## gentilechoc (Mar 4, 2010)

Wow.  I'm so glad I just saw your post.  I understand the frustration because I'm having the exact same trouble and I also ordered the dvd by Ed Chastain.  I have managed to get the ingredient temps and final brew temp correct (between 80-85 degrees) when it hits the table.  My dough rises a bit, but the internal temp only increases by about 2 degrees.  What's causing this?  I have cut back the salt, in case it was killing the yeast.  I have increased the yeast amount by 20% ( I am using instant dry yeast).  I have even tried to make a thinner (more lax) dough.  All of these things at Ed's suggestion.  Nothing seems to work.  I am also trying to learn how to use a proofer cabinet that was given to me by my fiance.  A really thoughtful gift because I really want to open a donut shop, but it seems to get much too hot.  Anyone have experience with an EPCO heating/proofer cabinet?  It has settings for both a holding (heating) cabinet and for proofing, but in proofing mode it gets up to 135 degrees.  Seems way too hot and could be killing the yeast before rising completely.  But this still would not impact the lack of activity that is happening on the work table.  Any help is much appreciated.


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## belfastboy1 (Nov 13, 2012)

Hi 
I discovered a post you wrote online about making yeast raised donuts from Ed Chastin's DVD. I am hoping to someday open a donut shop and was wondering if you ever got any answers to your questions and if you ever opened a shop?!

My big question about the DVD is this: ( and I'm desperate for a answer!!!)
He makes a five pound batch while incorporating his milk mixture. ( With five pounds flour etc)
He mixes it and then puts it on his bench.
This is the point where I get confused..... It's a huge amount of dough he pulls out of his bowl

He says later that it is 30 lbs of dough he is working with. 
I assume it's a continuity error in the editing and that I'm not meant to have 30 +lbs of dough from 5 lb of flour!!!
I'm new to this and there is very precious few leads or valuable info and Ed will not return my corranspondance 
B


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## wizarddrummer (Dec 26, 2012)

A few things.

Protein content affects how much gluten is created in the dough. Cake flour has a very low protein and the flour used to make pizza or bread has a higher content.

Yeast. First and foremost you must remember that yeasties are living creatures. They will die if not treated kindly. They have very specific needs for growing and temperature is a critical component. Too low and the yeast stops fermenting. Too high the yeast dies. Then, if you are within the growing range the yeast will ferment more quickly at the upper temperature range.

You mentioned a really high temperature of 210 degrees. Are you scalding the milk? I normally use powdered milk in bread recipes and I never use water that's higher than about 100 degrees for getting yeast to start doing its magic.

For example, you can make a pizza dough / bread dough using ice cold water (a technique from Peter Reinhart) with a tiny amount of yeast and put it in the refrigerator for about 3-5 days and you will have some really great tasting dough.

Regardless of the type of yeast; Cake, ADY, IDY make sure it is fresh. If I am in doubt as to the freshness of the yeast, then I'll do the yeast separately in a bowl with a pinch of sugar and flour and test the reaction.

You can use a technique called autolyse which allows the flour to soak up moisture (NO SALT, OIL or Yeast) for 30 to 40 minutes. Then start adding other eggs, yeast; with shortening and salt being the last things to add.

Sometimes I find it works well to mix for about 5 minutes and then let it rest for 20 or so, then mix again and rest. This depends on the ambient temperature of the room. Where you live there are days that you have the right temperature and humidity to proof your dough in the ambient room temperature. You can get a soft supple dough without grinding away in the mixture if you pay attention to how the flour is absorbing the liquids. This technique also allows you to minimize or control the temp of the dough so that the mixer does not overheat it.

The main thing is to get the yeast reaction working before you add too much salt.

I found a great source for you that describe problems and troubleshooting tips w/pictures as it pertains to bread dough that you can apply to your yeast dough. http://www.progressivebaker.com/downloads/Bread.pdf

It puts into pictures what would take me another hour to write out.

Also, use your hands, get a 'feel' for the dough, look and observe the dough as well. Your senses can tell you a lot about what's going on and when you do get it under your belt a little more, you can tell almost immediately what you need to add or change to make it right.


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## msjcaetano (Apr 30, 2015)

Hello chefscott6767 i bought the DVDs but i am having trouble to contact with Ed or Lester Chastain. I have no confirmation of when or where i can get the material. Do you have someway to rich in contact with them?

Thank you!


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## cradams (Jul 28, 2016)

I as well bout his book and dvd's.  They were very informative for the most part.  I am trying to figure out his flour mixture (50% hard and 50% soft)  He says he uses Montana Flour.  At Montana flour I am not finding a bleached soft flour.  Can you help me out with what flour products you are using.

Thanks

Sure more struggles are to come buy I am trying to lessen them by using the right stuff.

Can't seem to contact them which is a big disappointment.

Thanks  for you help.


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## Radiya (Dec 4, 2018)

msjcaetano said:


> Hello chefscott6767 i bought the DVDs but i am having trouble to contact with Ed or Lester Chastain. I have no confirmation of when or where i can get the material. Do you have someway to rich in contact with them?
> 
> Thank you!


I too bought them and have no reply


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## Chefoz (Dec 3, 2018)

Will take note of those tips


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