# Diamond or titanium?



## leswhaley

[h1]What makes the best cooking surface, diamond or titanium?[/h1]
I am trying to decide what kind of pan to buy, diamond or titanium. Probably will buy Woll. 

Which surface is best overall in terms of being durable, nonstick, able to withstand high heat and PFOA safe, and making the best food? I don't care so much about "hardness." I know diamond is harder. 

Thank you.


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## phatch

The best cooking surface is a question loaded with assumptions. IMHO, neither of those is particularly good for a cooking surface, but that is a reflection of how and what I like to cook. 

But the question is what do you like to cook? That will guide us to what material/surface is best for your cooking.


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## leswhaley

That's interesting. Have you personally used either one of these to cook with? I was of the understanding that Chef Gordon Ramsey uses the Woll Titanium pan so I assumed it must have something going for it. Plus, Woll titanium pans get outstanding 5-star reviews at Amazon, with Woll diamond pans lagging only a little behind.

I like to cook everything! 

I am looking for a nonstick pan that can withstand high heat safely, go into the oven, and produce great results. Until now I have only used Teflon as far as nonstick pans go, and I would like a better alternative without the drawbacks of Teflon.


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## phatch

What chef's use on TV is most often what they get sponsored to use. Read the credits and you'll see.

Nonstick has it's place, but most serious cooks would choose it only for a limited selection of items. Non stick works by repelling water and tends to steam the surface of foods. This means it doesn't produce the sear and Browning/Mailliard reactions you want when you brown foods.  Non-stick doesn't produce fond for pan sauces. When you properly prepare a burger, steak or vegetables in plain metal pans, they mostly release themselves from the cooking surface. It's one of the key clues to knowing when to turn food is that it's not really sticking any more.

Eggs and fish are the primary foods cooks prefer non-stick for. 

Remember, non-stick first claim to fame was easy cleanup. Not particularly good food results. This really hasn't changed, but has become noted for those delicate foods where sticking is particularly troublesome, fish and eggs.

Titanium is an OK conductor of heat, about like Aluminum. The hard anodize makes it non-reactive but after that, it doesn't really offer anything clad stainless steel doesn't. It's not non-stick. Anodize has fussier care requirements too.

I agree, I want my pans to be able to go into the oven. All that means is a metal handle is best. The stay cool handle is the limiting factor, not the pan material The Woll handles can't withstand the broiler for example.

I cook on a range of materials. Carbon steel, cast iron, clad stainless, non-stick. I  choose a pan based on what I'm cooking. If I had to choose just one type, clad stainless is the most versatile imho.

Oh, and one of my personal requirements is that any new cookware has to be induction compatible. Induction is an amazing heat source.


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## leswhaley

Your post is interesting, but I would like the opinion of someone who has used both diamond and titanium pans (preferably the Woll brand) and can tell me what they have had better experience with. Because I'm going to be buying one of the two, or both. According to Amazon users, nothing ever sticks to titanium.


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## phatch

I haven't used diamond. I've used anodized titanium and thought it was nothing special, and more hassle.


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## mikelm

I've only been a serious home cook for 25-30 years, but I've never heard the term "diamond" or "titanium"  applied to cookware before. Do these have any meaning, or are they just brand names?

I know that titanium is the metal applied as the covering for the SR-21 Blackbird spy plane, but if I'm not planning to fry something while going  more than 2,000 miles per hour, why would I need a pan made out of it?

Thanks

Mike


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## phatch

Titanium is very similar in cooking performance to Aluminum, but lighter. It shows up in backpacking cookware a fair amount now, usually hard anodized. In my opinion, the hard anodize of titanium is more durable than Aluminum, but I've no hard data to back that up.


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## Pat Pat

I use both the Woll titanium and diamond. Honestly I don't find them to be any different from each other. Both amazing. Woll is the best when it comes to nonstick cookwares that can sear like a cast iron.


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## rick alan

I am surprised to hear that Ti is similar in performance to Al. Al should actually be the same weight or lighter so far as cookware is concerned, and has much higher thermal conductivity, Ti being very poor here, though Ti might be more dent resistant. This is actually the first I've heard anything in particular about Ti anodizing though.


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## Pat Pat

rick alan said:


> I am surprised to hear that Ti is similar in performance to Al. Al should actually be the same weight or lighter so far as cookware is concerned, and has much higher thermal conductivity, Ti being very poor here, though Ti might be more dent resistant. This is actually the first I've heard anything in particular about Ti anodizing though.


When it comes to Woll cookware, the pans themselves are pure aluminum.

A tiny amount of diamond or titanium is mixed into the nonstick coating purely for marketing purposes.


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## galley swiller

I'm not so sure about Pat Pat's identification of Wolf cookware being pure aluminum. Their website identifies the cookware technology as being 7-layer clad, with an aluminum core, and other layers of pure aluminum and 18-10 stainless steel.

I have previously used "titanium" nonstick, and didn't find it particularly impressive. Its nonstick properties and its durability were pretty much the same as everyone else's.

If the original poster is still with us (not that I expect it, since this thread was begun in 2013, and nothing between that year and yesterday), I'd wonder how either nonstick Wolf cookware or "titanium" coated cookware would compare against a carbon steel skillet which has been "seasoned" with a multi-layered laminated flaxseed baked coating (see http://sherylcanter.com/wordpress/2010/01/a-science-based-technique-for-seasoning-cast-iron/). This is the "recipe" which was favorably reviewed by Cook's Illustrated.

GS


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## Pat Pat

The cookware is Woll, not Wolf. LOL. See here...





I happen to also own multiple carbon steel pans seasoned by that exact method you mentioned, and I can tell you as follows:

1. A newly bought Woll pan is too nonstick for words; whereas a seasoned carbon steel pan is just nonstick.
2. Woll pans are super thick and heavy and can retain heat as well as a cast iron pan, so you can use lower heat when searing stuff. You have to use higher heat for a great sear with carbon steel.
3. Woll costs about 3 times more than carbon steel and lasts about 3 times shorter.


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## galley swiller

My bad. I'm probably due for an eye check.

I also looked up Woll cookware. Yup - it's pretty much as you said - aluminum cookware. Nothing I would get excited about.

GS


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## rick alan

So far the best non-stick I've used kitchenaide, of all things. At least 2 years daily use, maybe twice that (it was my mother's before I got it) and no significant degradation of the non-stick. Very heavy alu. It was stolen BION, so test stopped there. Downside was a shape not suitable for electrics (too much curve and so little flat).


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## Pat Pat

galley swiller said:


> Nothing I would get excited about.
> 
> GS


Maybe you should. It's possibly the best pan in the world [while it lasts].
The food turns out much more amazing looking with Woll.



rick alan said:


> It was stolen BION, so test stopped there.


That's crazy. Who would steal a used pan? And how? LOL.


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## rick alan

Ahaha ya, you'd have to wonder, but I left it on a small table in a public area of an apartment building for a few hours, along with a good heavy bottom stainless pan, stainless stayed put and the non-stick walked. I was later told stuff left there was considered giveaways.


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