# Am I headed in the right direction?



## Colby Moritz (Aug 2, 2019)

Hey everyone new member here. I am by no means a professional Chef, cook, or professional anything when it comes to food. I do, however, love cooking for my family. I grill frequently and certainly know my way around charcoal. If I had to put a "skill level" on myself, I'd say I'm a very good home cook. That said, my whole life I've dealt with sub-par equipment. I've always had other priorities, so I've always dealt with whatever $50 knife set that I had at the time. I'm finally in a position where my wife has told me to spend the money on a few decent knives, but I don't want to go in the wrong direction.

What I'm working with:

I think I need 2 new knives to start out...I think a 6.5" Santuko and 4" Paring knife will give me the versatility that I want, so that's what I'm looking at, but I am open to suggestions from professionals
I know it's weird to some who want the best of the best, as I'm aware that sometimes you have to piece together your own set to get the best of all worlds, but I prefer to stay with the same brand/product line...mixing and matching triggers my OCD I guess
I am a novice to Japanese steel, but I'm confident that that's the direction I want to go. I'm a quick learner, careful, open to advice, and I need to be happy enough with my decision that I don't have buyers remorse within the first few years. I don't want to get an inferior cutting knife that's easier to learn on because it's more durable...I can be patient and learn how to use it properly
I am a novice to Santuko style blades. The thing that draws me to it is the versatility. I am aware of their limitations and need for diligence and precision...I am confident in my ability to learn how to use one properly. However, I also want a knife that lends itself to a novice

Primarily I will be preparing boneless chicken, pork, beef, veggies and fruits. The hardest things I will be cutting through with these knives will probably be Onions and Potatoes...anything harder and I will just use my cheap J.A.Henkels Imported Chef knife. Everything will be cut on a Hinoki wood board.
I am reasonably confident in my sharpening abilities, as sharpening is not something that I'm new to. I'd prefer something that holds and edge for a good while with normal honing and something that doesn't require an expensive water stone to put an edge on. I use Spyderco Ceramic stones for all of my pocket blades and bushcraft knives...I'd prefer to use those for these knives as well when I need to do more than just a quick hone
I have roughly a $150-170 budget for both knives...if I could get a honing rod in that price range as well that'd be fantastic, but I can use my strop for now and get a rod later if necessary
I am no more and will never be more than a guy who enjoys cooking for his family. I never plan on spending $200-300 on a single knife, and this needs to be a semi-permanent purchase...I do not plan on buying replacement knives in the foreseeable future. In other words, I need something that won't break the bank, but is good enough quality that it will do more than "get me by until I can get something better"
With all of that in mind and a fair amount of my own research, I am consider a MAC Superior 6.5" Santuko and 4" Paring knife. I can get both for a hair under $120, which leaves room to squeeze in a ceramic honing rod. I also like the fact that they have a bread knife in the same product line, which is a knife on my list to get later, and again, fits into my weird need to keep with a "set." I am aware that MAC knives are well thought of when it comes to inexpensive, professional quality knives, but I want to make sure that I am not overlooking something important in this process. Also, understand that ultimately, getting quality is more important than everything having to come from the same manufacturer and product line, so if it's a must I will do what needs to be done as long as it fits into my other requirements


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

Ok, I'll start and a resident knife expert can respond with more detailed knife wisdom. 
I'm reading many contradictions in your post. 
You're a novice to Japanese steel but confident that's the direction you want to go. 
You want a knife you need to learn how to use but one that lends itself to a novice. 
Etc. 
You also seem to have settled on a specific knife or knife set yet are here asking for advice. 
There are a large number of posts all about knives on this website. Have you read those? I think you will find more than enough information about all kinds of knives and related issues to keep you up all night worrying over the endless details. 
My straightforward knife advice is to buy a ten inch chef of your choosing. Watch some videos on proper knife handling. Practice until you feel comfortable with it. 
After you use it for a couple of years, decide you would like something that has slightly different characteristics. Do some more research, buy another knife. 
The best way to buy a knife is to hold it in your hand before you buy it. Does it feel like a good fit in your hand? Do you like its weight and shape? It doesn't have to cost $200 or more. I prefer carbon Sabatiers and they run about $100. But I also have other knives that I bought thinking they were the knife for me. Then I met another knife. I even own a Santuko or two and use them occasionally. 
Lamson sells some decent knives made in Mass. The outlet store in Shelburne Falls sells seconds at great prices. I own a few. Various Bladesmiths and other producers around the country sell knives that don't necessarily cost hundreds. 
As you gain experience whether at home or in a pro kitchen, your desires/needs inevitably change over time so don't expect this purchase will be the last one.


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## galley swiller (May 29, 2013)

I agree with chefwriter about the size of the knife. 10 inches (255mm) should be your target blade size. A santoku at 180mm or less is just too short for a principal blade. 

Also, I would consider the blade profile of the santoku to be a bit flatter than the ideal. Much more usable would be a bit of curvature, such as a gyuto.

I don't fault your choice of Mac. They make good, honest blades. The one problem is that they apparently have a distribution limitation that restricts retail sale to or through authorized national importers. Yes, there are secondary retailers. But, for users in the odd countries in which there is no national authorized importer, it can be a significant degree of frustration. (I'm assuming you are in the USA)

And speaking of a recommended blade, I would suggest the Mac BK-100. It's got a blade length of 255 mm (one mm longer than 10 inches, and right at the sweet spot in length). It's a workhorse, with sufficient thickness (2.5mm at the spine) so that the blade has good stiffness. It's Mac "Original" steel, which means it takes and holds a decent edge. And in the USA, there are retailers who sell it on discount for around $110.

I'm not going to worry about paring knives all that much. If you're properly keeping the edge sharpened, then you'll find yourself wearing the edge out soon enough. More important is getting a blade which is roughly the same length as your index finger, so that holding and using it will make it feel like a natural length extension of your other fingers.

You mention a hinoki cutting board. You don't mention the dimensions. I was just looking at hinoki boards listed on the Williams Sonoma site, and was significantly unimpressed. Even the largest board is less than 12" x 18" (the minimum for a workhorse cutting board) and the thickness of 3/4 inch is way too thin to avoid long-term warping. If you're looking for the best, consider a northern maple end-grain board with MINIMUM dimensions of 12" wide x 18" long x 2" thick (bigger is better when it comes to cutting boards).

Honing rods are useful, but don't fool yourself into thinking one will sharpen a blade. What they do is to straighten out the microscopic edge which has bent over during use. Important, yes, but that's not sharpening, which involves the actual removal of metal. That's where your stones come into play.

Hope that helps.

GS


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

I am in agreement with chefwriter and galley swiller on a 10" size and a gyuto or chef. I personally see no use for a pairing knife, especially in the $40-$50 range. As my knife skills grew, my use of a pairing knife became nil. I haven't used one in probably 30 years. I pretty much use my chef's knife for everything. I use it instead of a pairing knife for tasks usually associated with a pairing knife such as peeling and coring tomatoes, segmenting citrus, deveining shrimp, decorating, removing eyes from potatoes, etc. etc. etc. I also agree with galley swiller on the ceramic honing rod and the fact that you mention having a strop. With the strop, you really don't need a honing rod. I actually use corrugated cardboard as a strop. :~) As to MAC knifes, I use a MAC professional series chef's knife and love it. I haven't used the superior series or chefs series so I can't really offer an insight on those steels.


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## galley swiller (May 29, 2013)

I have a significant number of Mac knives, including many (if not all) of the gyutos from the Chef series, the "Mighty" ("Professional") series and the "Ultimate" series. Between the Mac BK-100 ("Chef" series) and the Mac MBK-95 ("Mighty" series), I use the BK-100 as my day-to-day blade. The two blades have the same thickness (2.5mm) and similar blade profiles (so stiffness is very similar), but the slightly longer BK-100 is what I'm used to, so that's what I reach for. And at a discount difference in price (BK-100 at $110; MBK-95 at $185), the BK-100 wins hands down for value-for-money. Of course, the MBK-95 has a nice bolster at the forward end of the handle (the BK-100 lacks a bolster) and there's a slightly different blade profile.

The "Chef" and "Mighty" ("Professional") series both mostly use Mac's "Original" steel, Mac has a "Superior" steel, which is used in the "Superior" series and the "Ultimate" series, and is used in the Mac knives which have kullenschliff. One difference in the blades is that those using the "Superior" steel are almost all noticeably thicker than those using "Original" steel. Other details about the relative differences between the two grades of steel are somewhat sketchy to find out (Mac's steels are proprietary), but presumably Hitachi supplies the steel to Mac and "Superior" steel is specifically differently quenched after annealing than "Original" steel. That may result in a higher blade manufacturing failure rate and thus a higher cost.

(Of course, this discussion doe not include Mac's "Japanese" series blades, which are a wholly different and separate discussion entirely)

Galley Swiller


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## Colby Moritz (Aug 2, 2019)

Thanks guys for the replies. A few more thoughts of my own.

1) I don't see it as a contraction that I am confident in wanting to learn to use a different style blade while still wanting something that lends itself to someone new to the style. That's actually one of the reasons I've so far specifically landed on the MAC Superior series. The steel is a bit harder than that in the Original and Professional series while still being almost as thin and no so hardened that they're brittle. While I want something higher quality than the thicker German counterparts, I don't want something dainty that it has to be expertly handled 100% of the time...in other words, I want something that has a little bit of forgiveness built in while not being built like a tank.

2) I have read many of the posts on this site and others...another reason why I'm looking at the MAC knives.

3) Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of holding a better knife in my hands before I buy it. In my area about the nicest thing sold in stores is a Zwilling or Wusthof, and everything that I've been told has been that I can get a far superior blade for the same price by going with Japanese steel.

4) The board I have is a 16x10x1 Kiso board that my wife got me a few years ago. While it may not be the most desirable thing for a professional chef or cooking aficionado, it is large enough for my needs and hasn't left me wanting for more since I've been using it.

5) Currently, my Paring knife is the most heavily used knife that is in my kitchen. That said, part of the reason for that is because I see no need to grab a 10" knife to slice some strawberries or dice a pepper and, while I can make it work, it's quicker for me to use my Paring knife. But, if I do end up getting the Santuko style blade, perhaps the smaller length would be a good "best of both worlds" situation for me and I wouldn't need a new paring knife. 

6) I am aware that a honing rod isn't a replacement for sharpening. The reason I would even consider getting one over just using the strop I already own is because my strop has a lot of honing compound rubbed into it (it's currently used for my pocket blades) and I'm not sure if it's food-grade. It also lives in the garage as that's where I do my sharpening and I'd like to have in the kitchen for when I just need to do a quick hone and don't want to be chasing it back and fourth all of the time. That said, I have enough scrap leather and wood laying around that I could make another one for free.

7) So far you all have recommended a "Chef" knife over the Santoku. Let me explain why I was/am leaning towards the Santoku style. I have a decent but not great Chef knife from Henckel International...it's a 10" blade length. My biggest complaint with the knife has always been the size and shape. It feels much more natural to me to start my cut on side furthest away from me and pull the knife towards me with the end (or "point") angled every-so-slightly downwards, but the Chef knife best lends itself towards using a rocking motion, even when dicing and such. Yes, I know it can be used in many ways, but the Santuko seems to be made specifically for the style of cutting that I am already using. As far as blade length, while the 10" length doesn't bother me, it's also unnecessary, as I rarely prepare anything that calls for me to need a blade that large, and, in the event that I do, I will be keeping the Henckel's that I currently have. That said, the fact that so many people recommend the Chef style has made me wonder I should get a cheap $10 Santuko blade from Walmart and put an edge on it and just see if I like the style before dropping the money on it.


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## Transglutaminase (Jan 9, 2019)

I have a 6-1/2" Santoku & a 3" paring , both forged Mercers.
I use them both on a daily basis, I too, use a 10" x 12" cutting board - for the most part.
I find the 10" chefs knife unwieldy with a small board/small counter space.
I like it for pineapples or other large things. 
Never use it for a couple of small veggies.
Have a monster Victorinox for huge slabs of meat.
Again, rarely used.
Whatever feels comfortable!
..my 2 cents anyway..


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## galley swiller (May 29, 2013)

A quick reply about getting a cheap santoku (or any cheap steel blade).

It's not worth it in the long run. It will be both much more difficult to sharpen and will go out of sharpness sooner. All it will be is a degree of frustration.

Much better to get a good blade, and sharpen it yourself whenever it needs it.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

So you have every kind of knife for course work, so I recommend something more refined and exciting in terms of cutting performance, and a 210 will do you fine. Geshin stainless gyuto, and Ikazuchi 210 to take it a significant step up.

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/gesshin-specials
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/ikazuchi

The Ikazuchi would be a real mind blower for you. Water stones are not expensive, you can start with a King 1K/6K combi. Get a King 300 also to do some desperately needed thinning on your other knives.


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## Colby Moritz (Aug 2, 2019)

galley swiller said:


> A quick reply about getting a cheap santoku (or any cheap steel blade).
> 
> It's not worth it in the long run. It will be both much more difficult to sharpen and will go out of sharpness sooner. All it will be is a degree of frustration.
> 
> Much better to get a good blade, and sharpen it yourself whenever it needs it.


I'm talking about picking up a cheap one to use for a week or so to see if the style of knife is something I like more than a Chef knife. I wouldn't be keeping it for the long run.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Local discount stores often have decent cheapies for around $5, knives as good as any Henckles/Wustys, and usually around 8". I've bought a number of these for friends who didn't require/shouldn't have anything special. I've managed to find ones that required relatively little thinning. Restaurant suppliers typically have something like what you're looking for, kinda like a Vic. If the grinding looks decent and not thick looking at the edge give it a shot.

You'll find the 8" chefs gives you everything the smaller Santoku can, and is more versatile.


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## Colby Moritz (Aug 2, 2019)

One thing I completely forgot to mention, I make a ton of homemade Jerky. Part of the process of making it is flash-freezing the beef before cutting to make it easier to cut thinly. While the beef isn't completely frozen, it is certainly more firm. Would this be detrimental to the edge of a sharper knife? The knives I've always used have a 20-22 degree cutting edge on them...I'm looking at knives with edges from about 15-17 degrees...would the firmer beef destroy those?


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

I really don't believe so, just be careful not to slam the board hard, use a sawing motion.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Colby Moritz said:


> One thing I completely forgot to mention, I make a ton of homemade Jerky. Part of the process of making it is flash-freezing the beef before cutting to make it easier to cut thinly. While the beef isn't completely frozen, it is certainly more firm. Would this be detrimental to the edge of a sharper knife? The knives I've always used have a 20-22 degree cutting edge on them...I'm looking at knives with edges from about 15-17 degrees...would the firmer beef destroy those?


Put on a microbevel on one side at 45 degrees ish. I use a chinese cleaver for stuff like that, I find the wide blade helps with stability


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