# How do you stand up for yourself in a kitchen without getting sacked?



## chrisbristol (Feb 16, 2014)

Has anyone got any advice on standing up for yourself in a kitchen without getting sacked?  We'd all like to tell our boss to f** of at times but in reality we can't. So how do you let people know that you won't be pushed around without getting sacked? Obviously if it is only slightly higher chefs it is easier but if it is the sous or even head chef trying to push you around what do you do? I must specify  I'm not talking about diciplin that's essential I'm talking about chefs trying see how far they can push you?


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

In what way are they pushing you? Is it demeaning and belittling comments or assigning you tasks that are not really in your job description. Can you be a little more specific without getting too personal, as a few more details might make it easier to offer insight into possible solutions?


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## humble chef (Mar 8, 2015)

Out work them! Make your self indispensable and piss on the rest


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

I agree with cheflayne - need more information on what is going on to be any type of help.


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

Pushing you by giving no breaks and asking for free hours? Go to the top and ask about it. 

Or are they pushing your personal buttons all the time. Buttons is hard but try to look at the perspective of the pusher, if you cant justify their actions try to be polite and professional and ask them to justify it to yo and truly tell them how it makes you feel. Do this on a day when you were not already feeling pushed and use specific examples. Perhaps record the dates and issues for a bit first. I have been pushed past breaking a few times, lucky I kept all my bones and others intact. Ive seen a few bones broken ( side of garbage dumpster, and back door), its not worth that.

This industry may demand skin that is not human at times. 

This forum demands it by times also lol. Someone implied I am not professional this morning, you have to know yourself first.

"Tomorrow will come. This too shall pass...."

/ end bathroom break haaha bring on the Brunch rush.


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## chrisbristol (Feb 16, 2014)

Well my head chef is a bit of a bitch but I'm not to worried because the food is shit so I'm leaving as soon as I can. But say it happens again I am looking for some advice on how to deal with.

This is what happens where I work now.

My boss picks me out all the time, every mistake I make is pointed out where as everyone else's are ignored most of the time. She's polite to everyone else in the kitchen but always rood to me. When I do things that I haven't even been asked to do instead of saying well done she just moans about anything little thing she can. e.g. the other day I had no checks on so I asked the guy on the pass if he wanted a hand. Instead of being grateful she just moaned about something really petty I can't  even remember what it was.


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## mrglacier (Mar 6, 2015)

If your immediate supervisor is picking you out specifically every single time, I hate to have to say it, but there's two possible reasons: Either 1. You really do suck that bad. LoL just sayin. Or 2. I catch a whiff of rivalry. Don't ever put it past a superior to be jealous of those under them especially if they, in their own mind, consider you a threat to their job. But then again, people are funny, she may just hate your existence lol.


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## chrisbristol (Feb 16, 2014)

I don't think it is either of those 2 things I think it is a clash of personalities


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## fablesable (Oct 11, 2014)

She is definitely jealous of you and has considered you a rival. Women ain't bitches unless it's that....straight up!

I would get her in a quiet corner at the beginning or end of shift and straight out ask her what her issue is. Say "I have noticed you getting on my ass lately and was wondering if you are getting on me because you see real potential in me and want me to rise to the potential or are you just having a major bad month? If its the former I work better through raising me up not putting me down and if its the later then deal with your shit cuz its not mine to carry. Either way clean up your act or I will call you on it." Don't worry if she takes offence as you deserve better. I would put in a word with her boss and make sure you will get a good recommendation from them.

I have noticed that you have been struggling with this for a while. I hate to be the bearer of harsh truth however, it is on YOU to stand up and face the problem rather than running away or making others stand up for you. You MUST toughen up a bit as this world, no matter where you work or what profession you are in, is a tough one. It is brutal, uncaring, harsh, hurtful and hateful AT TIMES so you need to learn to get a little more aware of yourself and what you bring to the table and then form a barrier from those that would seek to harm you in ANY way. Bullying is going to happen. You are the beginning and end to it all. I was bullied mercilessly for years until I decided that enough was enough. I looked at who I was, what I was capable of and how incredibly strong I was and then made a decision to never let another person TELL me what I was about or what I was capable of. They no longer had the power and that was that. Please take the time to look inside yourself and deal with your own insecurity. You might actually find that as soon as you do, all the trouble you are getting from others will go away because you see the world as not out to get you. Just sayin cuz I care not because I am picking on you. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif


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## chrisbristol (Feb 16, 2014)

Hi

To be honest I'm not really to bothered about her I can handle her. And as I said the food isn't great so I'm not planning on staying hear long. I haven't really had many problems in kitchen to be honest. I worked for a recruitment  agency for a while and there was only one kitchen where I had a  major problem. And I was being ganged up on then, I'm not to bad  when it is one person I can handle that unless it is the head chef as they can make your life very awkward. The reason I'm asking is for my next kitchen just in case. If it was flat out bullying I probably wouldn't stay anyway I'm just on about chefs trying to see what they can get away with.


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

I'm not in the food business right now, but I have been a line cook, and something that applies to almost anything -- you say the food is shit, but if you are working there your job is to deliver what they ask since you're not in charge. You can't change the rules there.

This is not to say that your boss isn't an ass or that the food there is good. When I was a line cook, my boss Dave did some really rude things I remember very well today, 30 years later. Once I stayed a couple of hours overtime washing dishes and I told him I did a good job. I did if for him. The next day he told me my head was so big the last night that I couldn't walk out the door. I shouldn't have done the overtime for that jerk. That was after a really busy night as a line cook and the dishes piled up, so I did some dishwashing outside of my usual work.

Another time I shared a recipe that was one of my favorites, for chicken curry (I grew up in India). His comment was "greaseball" and that was it. He walked off. I'm so glad I moved on. He was the boss and he was a jerk. I hope you can find something that works a lot better for you, as I did. I got a job working at HP and I was an HP employee 17 years until I started a new career.

By the way, whenever I've made chicken curry since then, people have loved it. And I don't love Dave's mushy pasta. That was his call, not mine. And I had no room to argue since he was boss. You have to respect that or move on. I chose the latter.


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## chrisbristol (Feb 16, 2014)

He sounds like a jerk. Was he just like it just with you or everyone? Maybe he was racist. I agree my job is to the best I can with what I have while I'm there. As soon as I am gone it doesn't matter but while I'm there I have to do what she says.

It's sad that you got out of the trade for that. Unfortunately kitchens are a bit behind the rest of the world when it comes to bullying. And back then they were even worse. Doesn't help with people like Ramsey glorifying it.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Sounds like they want you tp quit.


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## youngchefkarl (Dec 12, 2013)

ChrisBristol said:


> He sounds like a jerk. Was he just like it just with you or everyone? Maybe he was racist. I agree my job is to the best I can with what I have while I'm there. As soon as I am gone it doesn't matter but while I'm there I have to do what she says.
> It's sad that you got out of the trade for that. Unfortunately kitchens are a bit behind the rest of the world when it comes to bullying. And back then they were even worse. Doesn't help with people like Ramsey glorifying it.


You do realize how ridiculous you insulting Gordon Ramsay sounds, considering you can't even spell his name right. And you do know people would kill to work for guys like that, that are firm and run their kitchen properly. There's a reason why all of the people that work for him and those of that caliber are successful. Yes Hell's Kitchen isn't reality, but I don't understand people like you bashing a military type environment which is how a lot of fine dining kitchens operate. It sounds like you screwed up working for someone who's an idiot, work at a better place, and everything will fall in place.


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

If Hitler were still alive, he would probably try to emulate Gordon Ramsay. Hah


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## kingfarvito (May 7, 2012)

You're asking how to make a stock, but her food is shit and you're going to quit. Excuse the brashness, but it sounds to me like you're cocky and upset that it takes longer than 6 months to earn respect.


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## alaminute (Aug 22, 2013)

Moving around in kitchens I've found that the people who find themselves struggling and are getting singled out every day usually put themselves in those positions whether admittedly or not. At first glance you feel bad for these people. First or second day on the job and you think 'jeez, these people are way to harsh. Can't they see that this person just needs a little help?' But then as days turn into weeks you realize said person is usually messy and slow, and doesn't follow direction well. Often they'll start the day on a bad foot with someone else pointing out a flaw and this snowballs into that negative self defeating attitude that just destroys moral. Then that cycle repeats, and the person is miserable and feels there is just no succeeding on their current endeavor. 
I don't know what the day to day at your spot is like and I'm in no position to judge but it sounds like you just need to be better.


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## chrisbristol (Feb 16, 2014)

youngchefkarl said:


> You do realize how ridiculous you insulting Gordon Ramsay sounds, considering you can't even spell his name right. And you do know people would kill to work for guys like that, that are firm and run their kitchen properly. There's a reason why all of the people that work for him and those of that caliber are successful. Yes Hell's Kitchen isn't reality, but I don't understand people like you bashing a military type environment which is how a lot of fine dining kitchens operate. It sounds like you screwed up working for someone who's an idiot, work at a better place, and everything will fall in place.


I've never criticised him for running his kitchen properly. I criticised him for glorifying bullying. He acts differently on British TV it's obvious he does it for affect because American audiences like it.


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## chrisbristol (Feb 16, 2014)

kingfarvito said:


> You're asking how to make a stock, but her food is shit and you're going to quit. Excuse the brashness, but it sounds to me like you're cocky and upset that it takes longer than 6 months to earn respect.


I'm actually one of the least cocky people you are likely to meet. I'm asking how to make a stop because I am still reasonably new to the trade. But despite that I can still tell that the place is serving bad food.


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## chrisbristol (Feb 16, 2014)

alaminute said:


> Moving around in kitchens I've found that the people who find themselves struggling and are getting singled out every day usually put themselves in those positions whether admittedly or not. At first glance you feel bad for these people. First or second day on the job and you think 'jeez, these people are way to harsh. Can't they see that this person just needs a little help?' But then as days turn into weeks you realize said person is usually messy and slow, and doesn't follow direction well. Often they'll start the day on a bad foot with someone else pointing out a flaw and this snowballs into that negative self defeating attitude that just destroys moral. Then that cycle repeats, and the person is miserable and feels there is just no succeeding on their current endeavor.
> I don't know what the day to day at your spot is like and I'm in no position to judge but it sounds like you just need to be better.


Well I've worked with very good chefs who were happy with me. A chef wanted me to come with him to a 2 Michelin star restaurant. This isn't to do with performance this a self confessed bitch trying to see what she can get away with.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

As is clearly shown by the back and forth on this thread, different people view situations differently. That is life. No one sees eye to eye with everyone. No one fits into every kitchen that they walk into. If you find a kitchen that you don't fit into, move on. Find one where you do fit in. You can't change other people. You can change your place of employment.


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## chrisbristol (Feb 16, 2014)

cheflayne said:


> As is clearly shown by the back and forth on this thread, different people view situations differently. That is life. No one sees eye to eye with everyone. No one fits into every kitchen that they walk into. If you find a kitchen that you don't fit into, move on. Find one where you do fit in. You can't change other people. You can change your place of employment.


Agreed


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## mrglacier (Mar 6, 2015)

If it really is THAT bad, pull her outside and ask her wtf her problem is. Literally, straight up. To the effect of "Hey you got a second. You know it seems you have a problem with me, what's the deal." It isn't high school. Don't walk on eggshells with people that have attitudes bro.


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## newjin (Sep 20, 2014)

Hey Chris
All I can say is learn everything you can as fast as you can. Practice different techniques in order to gain as much experience you possibly can while you are there . Respect come from how you carry yourself within the kitchen. People are always watching and will see your mistakes long before a success. Just get in get out and master your craft be different and don't take needless [email protected]#t from nobody. I hope this helps you brotha


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## chrisbristol (Feb 16, 2014)

alaminute said:


> Moving around in kitchens I've found that the people who find themselves struggling and are getting singled out every day usually put themselves in those positions whether admittedly or not. At first glance you feel bad for these people. First or second day on the job and you think 'jeez, these people are way to harsh. Can't they see that this person just needs a little help?' But then as days turn into weeks you realize said person is usually messy and slow, and doesn't follow direction well. Often they'll start the day on a bad foot with someone else pointing out a flaw and this snowballs into that negative self defeating attitude that just destroys moral. Then that cycle repeats, and the person is miserable and feels there is just no succeeding on their current endeavor.
> I don't know what the day to day at your spot is like and I'm in no position to judge but it sounds like you just need to be better.


I think you've made a good point. Some people need more support than others that's just the reality of the world. When I first came into the kitchen I needed a lot of support, I needed everything to be explained very clearly. And I didn't get it so at first it was very tough. As time went on I needed less support. In my opinion good head chefs give everybody the support they need as long as they are working hard. Bad chefs moan about it. And this is generally reflected in the food. What that happens you start to over think things, you slow down, everything becomes harder. Where as if you had the support everything would have been fine. The job I'm doing is relativily easy but it is made hard by the head chef. Although I have only been in the kitchen for under 2 years I have noticed that a good head chef can make a team of average chefs produce great food and a bad head chef can make a team of good chefs produce bad food.


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## alaminute (Aug 22, 2013)

Absolutely. The saddest part of this scenario is that even when people in these positions really do improve and up there ante, it's rarely noticed and since there are always problem areas on a station, and there is almost always some more plas you could have then these are the things that are noticed. Also everyone is watching you now. 
It gets better. We were all there once.


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## alaminute (Aug 22, 2013)

Also I'm gonna guess your working garde manger which is always low man on the totem pole and hardest station because you have the most fresh ingredients, and you set the pace.


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## jasonrobear (Mar 17, 2015)

I would suggest keeping a log!  One, it would stand up in court, should it ever come to that, and if you can show a pattern of such behavior that boss should be gone.

Secondly, she could be jealous.

Third, they could just want to see what your made of.  The longer you let it go, the longer and worse it will get.  Man up and confront the situation head on...but be smart about it.  Make sure you have someone who can verify the exchange between you two.

Cover your a--!


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## tocfc5 (Mar 21, 2015)

I've been picked on and singled out by a lot of my chefs and have seen it all the time. It really depends on the situation. Sometimes they are pushing and other times genuinely annoyed. I first experienced this at my second job. Flew under the radar for the first couple months until the chef found a problem with my mise which was actually caused by my partner but was on my side of the station. Still my fault for trusting my parter and not double checking. For the next year after this everything I did was under a microscope and wrong. For months I would just get passed off and think of quitting. Eventually I realized my chef knew what he was talking about and I started listening and making changes. After a while I got on his good side and was a better cook. After that hhe stopped yelling and started teaching. The CDC at my next place tore everyone apart. I just tried to stay out of his way until I was asking for mise at 5 o'clock on our opening night. Get screamed at but I just manned up to my mistake. Luckily it wasn't a big deal and just couldn't find where they put something. But the rest of my time there I just put my head down and out cooked everyone and I was one of the only people he didn't yell out and he, too, began helping me. At my current place until recently I was getting picked on all day long by my sous and CDC but I kept pushing myself to the point where they couldn't say anything. I still get it sometimes but not as often.

I've seen some of the best cooks I've ever worked with get it worse than anyone. Some chefs push this way, especially when they feel it motivates the cook. Whether or not they realize it or like it, some cooks really do perform better when pushed like this while others do not. Some chefs understand this and will treat cooks differently depending on what motivation they respond to.

I've also seen a lot of bullying out of genuine dislike for a cook or just a lazy, cocky, arrogant, cook. When the latter is the case other cooks will also bully them. A lot of kitchens don't need to fire bad cooks because the kitchen will just weed them out.

So my advice would just be to listen and make changes. Don't give them anything to call you out on. Keep your head down and be better than they are but without trying to show it off.

But sometimes you may need to say something. If it's becoming unrelated to work or too personal. Also if they are demanding unrealistic tasks. Let them know it's getting to be too much. Sometimes the chef/expo is firing so many things that you literally cannot cook because you fryer, pasta tank, stove is completely full. When it gets to the point where you cannot get the food out while maintaining the standards and integrity of the dish then the only person that suffers is the guest. I don't know what type of restaurant you work in but sometimes front of house will seat everyone at once and fire everything at the same time. Poor management on their part but a good expo should take control and space it out and fire in groups. If they aren't doing that then you need to tell them to get their stuff together. Or get it out so fast that you end up putting them in the weeds! 

Since you said you're new to the industry if you are getting buried during service or overloaded with prep let them know and ask for advice on how to get it done. Sometimes just asking not for them to help you do your job, but how to do it better will show that you are trying and looking to improve. This may change the way your chef approaches you.

Sorry for the rant, just wanted to share my experience because I've been there, and still am!


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## chrisbristol (Feb 16, 2014)

I'm out of that kitchen now. I have a ongoing temporary role until I find what I am looking for. The food is a bit basic but the head chef is really nice and appreciative so that is good. I am looking to get into a rosette kitchen so that will be more disciplined but I'm fine with that. I'm good with discipline, I can handle that. But this chef was definitely singling me out and there would have been no reasoning with her I know that. She was very stubborn she blamed every complaint on the customer, and never took responsibility or things going wrong. She wasn't a great head chef so I'm not worried about it. She wasn't a nice person, I even heard her say she likes firing people Interestingly I use to work in a hotel. I was new there and the chefs had become very consistent. Happy to turn out bad food and make people wait 40 minutes for it. A new sous chef had come in, he use to give me a lot of stick. The reason was he had given up on a lot of the others but he saw potential with me so he use to push me quite hard. I was fine with it we got along really well. I'm hoping that my next kitchen will be like that. I like being pushed but I have to know it is done for the right reasons.

I think though overall this had helped me a bit. I do need to try to grow a bit more of a thick skin. I love food and I really want to work as a chef but at times you do need a thick skin. I've never been the most confident person so it is hard but I think I am getting better.


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## alaminute (Aug 22, 2013)

Good for you, upward and onward


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

Best to you, Chris. Seems like you are fine with criticism, as long as it is with repect and to help you do better.


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## mrglacier (Mar 6, 2015)

Hope it all works out for ya.


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## anypills (Nov 1, 2014)

you getting bullied?

helps if you,re a big hard #%&@ like me..


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## anypills (Nov 1, 2014)

mate when youre starting out you should only work in the best places, its the best way to learn, expect to take a lot of @#%& aswell while youre doing it. If youre working in @#%& places then all the 'chefs' are @#%& and the standards are @#%& and everything is @#%& and depressing if you have any passion. just try to work in the top restaurants for the first 4 years of your career, if you still wanna do it after that then keep doing it.


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## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

yeah, ##%@@??""


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