# Pastry flour



## alexia (Mar 3, 2002)

A query for those who use pastry flour rather than ap flour for their tart and pie crusts: what difference is there in the ratio of flour and butter between the two and what is the difference in your technique?

Until recently I have only made pate brisee with all purpose flour, usually KA. I have developed a handling technique for this that gives what I believe to be an excellent result. It is flaky enough that when the scraps are baked as little cookies they puff up almost 1/2". It is also quite tender, but has enough strength that when I make something like a pissaladiere, one can eat a slice out of hand without it breaking or bending from the weight of the filling. Also the dough is easy to handle while rolling and forming.

When I try making this same pate brisee, substituting pastry flour, the result is not only different, but much less satisfactory to my taste. It seems "softer," and though it looks like it is flaky in cross section it doesn't FEEL as flaky and crisp. Also, when I am rolling it out and forming the tart, it is much much more difficult to handle as though it doesn't have enough strength to maintain its shape. It's very vexing.

I thought the problem might be that using pastry flour might require a higher ratio of pastry flour : butter & water, than I do with the ap flour. But when I reviewed an earlier thread about pastry flour, Jill Reichow pointed out that one should substitute less pastry flour for a given amount of ap [Registered: Mar 2001 - Location: Posts: 131 - "I read on a gov. web page that 1 C pastry flour= 7/8C all purpose flour. Gluten content on pastry flour is about 7-9% I think. Bread flour is up to 15%."].

So, perhaps someone might clue me in as to what they do when they substititue between pastry and ap flour.


----------



## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

I don't use pastry flour for my tart doughs. And times I do sub in pastry flour (which is very rare) in a recipe that didn't call for it, I haven't ever needed to adjust my recipe enough to make a note on it.

Different flours absorb water differently, different flours give you different textures and taste but the changes in handling are slight and 'to feel'. I don't know of any exact written formula to help you as a "guideline".

I have found the book "The Bakers Dozen" to be a wonderful reference on this topic of flours (far more then any other books I've read) and which flours work best in which recipes. They did alot of testing both chemically/scientificly and group voting on test tests to reach their conclusions. If you have the time and want to learn more about baking it's a very good read!!

It sounded like you were very pleased with your first recipe so I wouldn't mess with it. To experiment like that is fun and a good learning lesson, you could take even further. Your trying to tweak a recipe you seem to be happy with, I'm not sure why though?


----------



## alexia (Mar 3, 2002)

Thanks for the input Wendy. What you say about water absorption makes sense explaining much of the difference. What surprised me most was not so much the difference in the crust once made as in the handling of the dough as I was making it. I think I'm going to try use up the remaining pastry flour making some pate sucre where flakiness is not at issue (and my version of pate sucre does tend to be on the tough side). 

As for not fixing what ain't broke: The issue about pastry flour first arose for me when I was making a free form onion tart while visiting in a small city where I couldn't find the KA ap I usually use, but did find organic pastry flour. Also, as I bake mostly for family, I often "play around," trying out new recipes, ingredients, or techniques either to try something new or perfect what I've already made when I have the time to do it. As a home cook, I don't need to factor in consistency or occasional flops. 

I learned a lot reading Beranbaum, now I'll check out "The Baker's Dozen."


----------



## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Alexia I hope you do check out that book. I'm actually currently in the process of reading it for the second time. I've made several of their cake recipes and did like them very much (with 1 exception, I didn't like the peanut buttercake). Other then the peanut butter cake I'm going to loose my old recipe and use each one of the ones I've tested so far (I like them that much)!

I discovered they have a website at www.bakersdozen.org/

Until several people here helped me with tried and true recipes from Rosie's Cake Bible I didn't really hit any home runs with her book. The infomation in her book is great, if you ejoyed that... (I think) The Bakers Dozen book takes you the next step in the "whys" of baking science and even dis-spells some "rules" along the way. Enjoy!


----------



## alexia (Mar 3, 2002)

The Bakers Dozen sounds like a book I'd really like. Their site looks good, too. I bookmarked it

I used Birenabaum's book more for the info about ingredients and techniques than the recipes which I haven't actually tried. (It's the only place, as I recall, that suggests refrigerating the formed shell before baking as well as the dough before forming - which I find makes a difference.) Most of the time with pies I don't actually follow specific recipes as much as get ideas for them. As a home cook I don't need to worry about consistency.


----------



## angrychef (Jan 15, 2001)

Hi Alexia. I use General Mills pastry flour for all our pastry items. If and when I have AP on hand, I just replace in equal amounts. In a pate brisee recipe, the water is always the "iffy" factor. AP, with a slightly higher protein content than pastry flour, absorbs more water than PF. So hold back on the water when making piecrusts with PF. But I'm with Wendy, if you like your product using AP, keep it as is.


----------

