# Kamikoto knives



## realbkw

How humiliating. I had to select the only descriptor that suited my skills. "Can't Boil Water"

Anyway, I saw some knives on one of those bidding sites thar sells some real crap but also some great name brand stuff. They have these knives supposedly made by a "reputable" Japanese manufacturer. I checked out the same knives on Amazon, and they are being sold there for prices similar to the MSRP on the auction site, and lots of good reviews. Did some googling, saw more good reviews. Also got hits for reviews on reputable sites but those turned up being "best of" lists that gave hits for a bunch of mfrs but actual reviews of only 3- brands. Next stop, ebay. Saw same Buy Now prices as auction sites for new sets, and used sets for about 25-35% of that, which seems reasonable. Due diligence, right? 

Long story not so short, I won one of the auctions and got the pkg yesterday. Meanwhile, I reopened my Amazon window to look for something else and realized there was a review on there I hadn't seen before, claiming the other reviews were fake. They look legit, but I went back to trusty google and went a couple of pages into the search results and have noticed a lot of similarities in the reviews.

Have I been "tooken for a ride" on these knives? If so, I'll learn my lesson and keep the crap for myself. I was buying the set for my sister, an awesome home cook who just started taking lessons to expand her knowledge and skillset. I wanna get her something she'll get a lot of use out of, and be proud to own.

So, what say you? Cook? Or Con?

Thanx from a not so noob who can bake a decent cake and really good cookies but, alas, do have trouble with the stove top stuff. After several really bad attempts (actually, several bags' worth) at making long grain rice, I finally learned that simmer was not "bring it to a boil then turn it almost all the way off and let simmer". 

Looking forward to any response. Be honest. Brutally honest! Thanx!


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## rick alan

Niigata is not a steel or steel company, it is a scissors company.  I'm not even sure if the OP is for real and this is hilarious.

"They work with such gentleness"  Oh yeh, that really sounds like an American buyer describing a knife. 

Now I just have to wonder how is it I never came across Komikoto knives in all my Amazon and google searches on knives?


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## foody518

Isn't Niigata a city/prefecture?

Never heard of the brand

Rice is way easier with a rice cooker. A


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## scott livesey

niigata is a city and also a Prefecture in japan. it is also the name of the local steel. here is the link to the Kamikoto site http://www.kamikotoknives.com/about-us/


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## rick alan

Yes Niigata is a city, I did see the website (with those amazingly bad looking knives pictured on homepage) before commenting, and the whole thing is just so absolutely hokey.  I mean no one's heard of them, there is not a legitimate review for them anywhere and, proof of the pudding, you find their knives selling all over ebay for about 1/6 of the price Kamikoto advertises.


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## scott livesey

all the sites related to Niigata refer back to Kamikoto site. found the Niigata shears http://www.scissormall.com/hair-cut...st-quality-japanese-hair-cutting-scissor.html $1500 for scissors.

the Niigata area has many small businesses dealing with steel. Nippon Steel and Sumitomo Metal has a plant in town


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## rick alan

Sorry for the giddiness of last night realBKW, but whatever you have there it does not appear to be a $6-700 knife or $1000+ set of 3.  New Japanese knives from desirable makers do not sell on ebay for gigantic discounts.

We would all be curious to know what these knives look like out of the box, the quality of their finish, how sharp they come, how they go through a large carrot or sweet potatoe, etc.  They are not going to be quite as advertised, but they will hopefully give you good use for the money paid.


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## foody518

Also there's a website and/or browser extension that shows legitimate reviews vs fake ones... Can't remember the name at the moment


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## realbkw

Thanks for the repies! So yesterdayI got the set of three. The shipping carton was really nice and the label was clearly printed, so they gave a really good first impression! Then, alas, no fun bubble wrap, just air bags. Then, your average cardboard sleeve. A very nicely made bamboo case with a very shiny clasp! I was almost salivating. And really anxious! Inside, three very pretty knives in a nice, apparently custom fit, charcoal gray foam setting. Since I usually "can't have nice things" I took my time admiring the knives . Slowly .I removed one. Careful to use the thumb-size cutout in the foam, instead of trying to dig it out of the foam, thus preserving the foam so, if these puppies are legit, my sister won't know I played with them first.

I held the knife up, again, by the handle. As the saying goes, "I may be crazy but I'm not stupid!" It was breathtaking, in the way that, you know, you have to breathe. But, seriously, they do look knice, and sharp. I kind of touched the edge but not enough to cut myself. Cuz, blood thinners. So far I haven't tried cutting anything yet, since pretty much all I have in the house right now is canned and frozen. Hey, they aren't as-seen-on-tv ginsu knives, after all! Oh, and rice. I was serious about the rice. Anyway, going shopping tomorrow so I'll have some real food to try them out, and I'll let you know. how well they slice a tomato and dice an onion. It may not be til mid-afternoon, cuz it takes me awhile to dice a whole onion.

I really did try and check these out before buying them, Amazon prices were high, just like the Buy It Now prices on the auction site. Somebody once said if you go to one of those sites, and the brand is not easily recognizable, drop the last number of the Buy It Now price to get the true value, which I did. So I figured the value, then figured I'd try and get them for about a quarter of THAT price. The way the site makes its money is from actually selling bids. Think of the bids as tickets. So you buy a pack of bids, and find the item you want. Once the auction for that item "goes live", all hell breaks loose! You have to kind of bide your time, because the bid changes every ten seconds or less, and each bid only raises the offer by a penny. So if you paid, say, $0.19 for each bid, every bid increase actually costs $0.20, and even if everybody bidding lets the clock count down from 10 to 1, that's six bids every minute divided by the number of bidders. They were actually running specials because of the holiday and, while the bidding proceeded as usual, the items were actually either free or 1/2 off the final price bid. In other words, for many items all you paid for were the bids! I actually got one set of knives and a nice whetstone for FREE and the other knives were pretty inexpensive, at half of the amount they were bid up to, so, honestly, I can't complain about what I paid.

My bigger concern is whether I should go ahead and give these as a gift to my sister. I really DO want to give her at least a couple of basic knives she will be proud to own, and will be of good use and kinda long-lasting. I bought a J A Henkels paring knife, for another sister, through Amazon. I only got her the one knife, and the "little one" at that. Cuz I don't love her as much. Just kidding! I know she got a couple of nicer, larger knives last year. So, I'll let you know how well these SEEM to work tomorrow. I certainly don't know enough to give a real evaluation, but if they get me through a tomato without squishing it and I can get through the onion before dropping to my knees sobbing, then I guess they're satisfactory. If they suck, lesson learned. I could come back for recs on REAL knives and hopefully not have to sell plasma to pay for them! But they're gonna hafta be the same sizes as these. Cuz that bamboo case really is nice!

Thanks, guys! Happy New Year! I'll let you know how these work out.





  








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## realbkw

Rick, thanks for your reply!

I honestly did try and check some reviews before buying the knives. One that looked like it came from a trade mag said Kamikoto had only recently started selling in the US. Others gave varying reviews. On Amazon, I always check to make sure a reviewer has more than one review, on different kinds of items. And when looking at the stuff on DealDash, I checked to see if they offered cameras and iStuff, since I know those. They have a couple of models of Canon digital cameras, Nikon lenses, iPhones and iPads, all with Buy It Now prices pretty much the same as what you can get the stuff for at Best Buy or Amazon, so I knew at least some of the stuff was legit. I bought a couple of gift cards at the site, just to get an understanding of, and feel for, the bidding process. Won a couple, lost out on a couple (still having paid a little for them because I'd had to buy the bids".

I WILL come back tomorrow, Monday latest, to let you kind folks know how well I fare with these.

Oh, yeah, and when I was digging deeper into the reviews (after purchase [emoji]128542[/emoji]) I did get a few giggles out of some that were obviously translated from Japanese. By someone who was probably going word by word using google translate or some such method. They were pretty odd! I think I could make a lot of money if I could get them to let me rewrite their translations! They remind me of the manual I got with the Subaru I bought in '84 - Please to put the fuel into the gas. LOL

I'll be back with my review! [emoji]9996[/emoji]️️[emoji]127881[/emoji]


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## brianshaw

Can't wait!


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## jman1124

I'm curious to hear what your impressions were.  thanks!


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## chef de liddo

Hey guys stumbled onto this review.

https://kamikoto.com/
The prices range if want knife now it's 600+

But if wait to get knife made and at a later time. It's 115 bucks.

As far as using I went ahead to order them myself and see how they perform.


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## millionsknives

I am a fan of wide bevels but this one looks cheap, like they overdid it.  All that marketing won't tell you what steel, how hard, or anything about the grind.  Hard pass, for any amount of money.


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## terri l

Is there an update on this?


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## foody518

If folks are seriously looking in the $100-150 range for santoku, there are many choices...Tojiro, Fujiwara, Misono, Kanetsugu, Togiharu, JCK brand, Suien, Gesshin Uraku, etc. etc.


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## rick alan

Terri L said:


> Is there an update on this?


Consider this an example of a knife "pervaier" to ignore.


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## terri l

foody518 said:


> If folks are seriously looking in the $100-150 range for santoku, there are many choices...Tojiro, Fujiwara, Misono, Kanetsugu, Togiharu, JCK brand, Suien, Gesshin Uraku, etc. etc.


I think I've come to this conclusion, buying separately from a known company is the way to go, but I'm still curious what the OP thinks of the Kamikoto set.


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## terri l

Rick Alan said:


> Consider this an example of a knife "pervaier" to ignore.


I'd still like to see what the original poster's thoughts are on the set, since it's an unknown company.


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## twistedsage

These knives are manufactured in China.  Notice they are "Japanese-style" made with "Japanese steel."  Sadly there are a lot of knives that try to trick consumers in this way.  They might be decent, but are not worth anywhere near what they charge for them.  If you can snag one for less than $100 you might be getting a good deal but personally I try not to give any of my money to these companies.  You can get a genuine hand-forged knife from Japan for less than $200 on chefknivestogo.


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## harrisonh

They are real, in the same way that the moon is real. The CLAIMS, however and the MSRP are as real as an honest politician

​There is NO SUCH THING AS NIIGATA STEEL. It is NOT a steel rating.
There is NO mention of the chemical composition
​There is NO mention of it's RockwellC or any other physical property.
​The knives are made in CHINA
​They NOW say made in China of Japanese steel, but that is only because so many people caught them.
​The VAST majority of the reviews are fake or made by people who obviously have no experience in a kitchen.
The claims of giving a certificate of authenticity should also be a red flag.
​I'd probably place these in the 20 to 25 dollar category not the 650 dollar category they claim
FAKESPOT gives this company and product an "F" rating


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## harrisonh

REMEMEBER THAT AMAZON ALLOWS A PRETTY GOOD RETURN POLICY, ESPECIALLY AFTER KNOWING THAT THE CLAIMS ARE SO SPURIOUS

AND, JUST LIKE ON THE AMAZON SITE AND IN FACEBOOK, THE ONLY POSITIVE REVIEWS AND THE ONLY PEOPLE SUPPORTING THE COMPANY IN THIS THREAD ARE EITHER FAKE OR HAVE NO IDEA BAOUT WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT

​I THINK WE NEED TO GET RID OF THE FAKE REVIEWERS


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## foody518

Maybe also worth buying a Japanese Knife in similar price range to have a reference point


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## michael wyland

I'm in exactly the same position.  Received the 3-knife set yesterday; haven't used them yet. My wife was amazed at how sharp the knives are, just to the touch.


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## playero

have a friend that will get his tomorrow so I will check on this. where does it says that they are made in China.


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## rick alan

Michael Wyland said:


> I'm in exactly the same position. Received the 3-knife set yesterday; haven't used them yet. My wife was amazed at how sharp the knives are, just to the touch.


Out of the box edge means nothing, [especially if you don't know just how sharp good steel can get]. Often times the initial perception of sharpness from a factory edge is created by a burr carelessly left behind, and where a few wacks on the board or some mild cutting tasks quickly make that "amazing" edge a rather dull one.


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## foody518

Rick Alan said:


> [especially if you don't know just how sharp good steel can get].


This is the part that is hard to get a framework of when just coming from typical worn down or ragged edge thick knives where anything new is probably an improvement. I typically have to suggest against touching my edges (with the amount of pressure it seems like more folks are used to using to check an edge....) so no one ends up with a nasty cut.


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## foody518

Thanks for chiming back in. Let us know how it cuts


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## rick alan

So how much did these knives wind up costing you?  I hope it wasn't more than the 1/6 msrp you could have bought them on ebay for, and brand new not used.  Even at that they are most likely not worth it, and you would have been better off with something like the Tojiro DP.


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## foody518

I hope it wasn't more than $50 for a santoku


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## scubadoo97

There are too many reputable companies to choose from if you are looking at getting a good knife. Don't waste your money on this junk. There are better bangs for the buck, just ask


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## scott livesey

harrisonh said:


> They are real, in the same way that the moon is real. The CLAIMS, however and the MSRP are as real as an honest politician
> 
> There is NO SUCH THING AS NIIGATA STEEL. It is NOT a steel rating.
> There is NO mention of the chemical composition
> There is NO mention of it's RockwellC or any other physical property.
> The knives are made in CHINA
> They NOW say made in China of Japanese steel, but that is only because so many people caught them.
> The VAST majority of the reviews are fake or made by people who obviously have no experience in a kitchen.
> The claims of giving a certificate of authenticity should also be a red flag.
> I'd probably place these in the 20 to 25 dollar category not the 650 dollar category they claim


didn't you watch Master Yamamoto, slaving over the forge, hand shaping the blade(like most Japanese knife makers' videos). Makes me wonder if other companies are doing the same thing. 
ad has changed since i made first reply, now says steel from Honshu, same as saying steel from Ohio. 
a toishi stone must be a generic term, $210 is a bit expensive for a basic stone.
$675 for a basic santoku with a plastic handle is hiway robbery. 
buyers need to beware.


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## Chef_GekidoBladeworks

realbkw said:


> How humiliating. I had to select the only descriptor that suited my skills. "Can't Boil Water"
> 
> Anyway, I saw some knives on one of those bidding sites thar sells some real crap but also some great name brand stuff. They have these knives supposedly made by a "reputable" Japanese manufacturer. I checked out the same knives on Amazon, and they are being sold there for prices similar to the MSRP on the auction site, and lots of good reviews. Did some googling, saw more good reviews. Also got hits for reviews on reputable sites but those turned up being "best of" lists that gave hits for a bunch of mfrs but actual reviews of only 3- brands. Next stop, ebay. Saw same Buy Now prices as auction sites for new sets, and used sets for about 25-35% of that, which seems reasonable. Due diligence, right?
> 
> Long story not so short, I won one of the auctions and got the pkg yesterday. Meanwhile, I reopened my Amazon window to look for something else and realized there was a review on there I hadn't seen before, claiming the other reviews were fake. They look legit, but I went back to trusty google and went a couple of pages into the search results and have noticed a lot of similarities in the reviews.
> 
> Have I been "tooken for a ride" on these knives? If so, I'll learn my lesson and keep the crap for myself. I was buying the set for my sister, an awesome home cook who just started taking lessons to expand her knowledge and skillset. I wanna get her something she'll get a lot of use out of, and be proud to own.
> 
> So, what say you? Cook? Or Con?
> 
> Thanx from a not so noob who can bake a decent cake and really good cookies but, alas, do have trouble with the stove top stuff. After several really bad attempts (actually, several bags' worth) at making long grain rice, I finally learned that simmer was not "bring it to a boil then turn it almost all the way off and let simmer".
> 
> Looking forward to any response. Be honest. Brutally honest! Thanx!


 Hey , Iv been a chef for 16 years and a knife maker for 3, i Havent seen anything from this brand before, a good knife to get for starting, try shun, global, or you can order one from me! lol but i would start in that area


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## rick alan

So let's put things in perspective. All said and done you feel Shun (I assume the classic series) would be preferable. I don't doubt this because just from the photos it looks like the kamicoto has terrible grinds.

Well shun classic is not so good as Tojiro DP, for which a comparable set of knives would be around $140 any day of the week. And these are close to but not so good as the Fujiwara FKM, which would cost little more than the Tojiro. A 210 Fujiwara gyuto is $75, paring knife $40, and these 2 would have served you much better.

As we warned you, not such a great deal.


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## rick alan

Go for it, because the question here is not if you're pleased at this time with the Kamikoto, but how other kinves compare to it. And the ones you don't feel the need to keep will make great little gifts for most anyone you know. No one here has tried every knife out there, but Millions has come close, though I don't think Kamikoto was amongst them. And, quite frankly, the EXTREME HOAKINESS surrounding Kamikoto is going to overshadow most anything said of them.

Most of all though, enjoy all that Cheftalk has to offer, it's a great site all around for folks looking to learn and share everything about food and its preparation.


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## ScottH1

AVOID these knifes. The metal is soft and scratches easily and they will not hold an edge like a real Japanese knife does. Take a look at what the knife looks like after one cleaning with a 3M cleaning pad. Under it is a ordinary Wustof that has been cleaned the same way for years. The company will NOT stand behind their product and refuses to refund the purchase after 14 days even though its clearly not what they advertised. Misleading marking scam


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## ScottH1

And here compared to a real Japanese knife that has also been cleaned the same way. Night and day difference in knife quality.


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## rick alan

Yes well, I and others thought as much, of course. And this was not the first post of its kind on kamikoto. Similar unsuspected praise in a post on Dalstrong knives. We once had a moderator who was very intolerant of these sorts of shenanigans. But thanks for the firsthand Scott and welcome to Cheftalk.


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## Paul hancock

realbkw said:


> How humiliating. I had to select the only descriptor that suited my skills. "Can't Boil Water"
> 
> Anyway, I saw some knives on one of those bidding sites thar sells some real crap but also some great name brand stuff. They have these knives supposedly made by a "reputable" Japanese manufacturer. I checked out the same knives on Amazon, and they are being sold there for prices similar to the MSRP on the auction site, and lots of good reviews. Did some googling, saw more good reviews. Also got hits for reviews on reputable sites but those turned up being "best of" lists that gave hits for a bunch of mfrs but actual reviews of only 3- brands. Next stop, ebay. Saw same Buy Now prices as auction sites for new sets, and used sets for about 25-35% of that, which seems reasonable. Due diligence, right?
> 
> Long story not so short, I won one of the auctions and got the pkg yesterday. Meanwhile, I reopened my Amazon window to look for something else and realized there was a review on there I hadn't seen before, claiming the other reviews were fake. They look legit, but I went back to trusty google and went a couple of pages into the search results and have noticed a lot of similarities in the reviews.
> 
> Have I been "tooken for a ride" on these knives? If so, I'll learn my lesson and keep the crap for myself. I was buying the set for my sister, an awesome home cook who just started taking lessons to expand her knowledge and skillset. I wanna get her something she'll get a lot of use out of, and be proud to own.
> 
> So, what say you? Cook? Or Con?
> 
> Thanx from a not so noob who can bake a decent cake and really good cookies but, alas, do have trouble with the stove top stuff. After several really bad attempts (actually, several bags' worth) at making long grain rice, I finally learned that simmer was not "bring it to a boil then turn it almost all the way off and let simmer".
> 
> Looking forward to any response. Be honest. Brutally honest! Thanx!


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## Paul hancock

ScottH1 said:


> And here compared to a real Japanese knife that has also been cleaned the same way. Night and day difference in knife quality.


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## Peter Janicina

Ill make it simple. Pardon for rudeness. Its shit. My rookie friend has fallen for it. Its cheep shite from China. Copied Shun. Uraoshi geometry ( for those who dont know, its the original purpose back geometry on true singlebevel from japan) NON present. No steel specks, same shit as singlespeed bikes from china in nice colours. 

600 bucks? For no specks steel? Are you crazy guys. I made my accout only for this purpose. Pls overcome you blindness and learn something about singlebevel traditional high quality cutlery from Japan.

Im sorry, but if you keep thinking its good, you making new victims of these scumbacks potential. I know 100( crazy discount) mistake hurts your ego, but im afraid you have fallen for mischief of marketing pussy(cat right?)-posh look.

These knives in Japan have hardness of 60rql above for purpose. Its precision chisel in a shape of a knife, this Chinese Shit is paper.

Im asking kindly moderators to keep this post for second, because word shit is probably the only thing which might explai it simply and put som damage (needless) down.


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## ChefKING

According to the company via an email exchange, Kamikoto knives generally range between HRC53+/-2, which is a lower score (softer steel), an average Supermarket knife will be on the same class hardness as these. For those who don't understand what the characteristics of superior knives vs some made up garbage hoax is they should ALWAYS check the Rockwell rating of the knife. The higher the rockewell the more superior it is. 
Even a $2 knife can have a razor sharp edge as many Real chefs know but how long it keeps its edge is determined by the hardness and strength of its steel. 
I hope you wake up and smell the lies they are selling you just like the good old knife ads we used to see back in the days haha


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## jbroida

while not exactly true (with regard to higher rockwell hardness being objectively better), there are ranges that make sense for kitchen knives. Higher is not always better, but in general, you want to be somewhere in the 58-62 range plus or minus a tiny bit


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## millionsknives

A friend of a friend bought these and is looking for sharpening service. I hope he didn't pay the full ridiculous price. I wouldnt pay more than $10 for these. 

I'm between wanting to see this train wreck in person and not wanting to sharpen them.


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## Gary88

realbkw said:


> How humiliating. I had to select the only descriptor that suited my skills. "Can't Boil Water"
> 
> Anyway, I saw some knives on one of those bidding sites thar sells some real crap but also some great name brand stuff. They have these knives supposedly made by a "reputable" Japanese manufacturer. I checked out the same knives on Amazon, and they are being sold there for prices similar to the MSRP on the auction site, and lots of good reviews. Did some googling, saw more good reviews. Also got hits for reviews on reputable sites but those turned up being "best of" lists that gave hits for a bunch of mfrs but actual reviews of only 3- brands. Next stop, ebay. Saw same Buy Now prices as auction sites for new sets, and used sets for about 25-35% of that, which seems reasonable. Due diligence, right?
> 
> Long story not so short, I won one of the auctions and got the pkg yesterday. Meanwhile, I reopened my Amazon window to look for something else and realized there was a review on there I hadn't seen before, claiming the other reviews were fake. They look legit, but I went back to trusty google and went a couple of pages into the search results and have noticed a lot of similarities in the reviews.
> 
> Have I been "tooken for a ride" on these knives? If so, I'll learn my lesson and keep the crap for myself. I was buying the set for my sister, an awesome home cook who just started taking lessons to expand her knowledge and skillset. I wanna get her something she'll get a lot of use out of, and be proud to own.
> 
> So, what say you? Cook? Or Con?
> 
> Thanx from a not so noob who can bake a decent cake and really good cookies but, alas, do have trouble with the stove top stuff. After several really bad attempts (actually, several bags' worth) at making long grain rice, I finally learned that simmer was not "bring it to a boil then turn it almost all the way off and let simmer".
> 
> Looking forward to any response. Be honest. Brutally honest! Thanx![/QUppp





millionsknives said:


> A friend of a friend bought these and is looking for sharpening service. I hope he didn't pay the full ridiculous price. I wouldnt pay more than $10 for these.
> 
> I'm between wanting to see this train wreck in person and not wanting to sharpen them.


Hello all, I'm new to this forum but wanted to comment on Kamikoto. I bought two Takamura knives from Chefsknifestogo.com a couple of years ago. Two great knives fir $300. Started shopping again for a good heavy duty cleaver for butchering/carving, but haven't decided yet. Like magic I get the $1200 Kamikoto box set for $275 dicount offer. Started research by looking for that brand on Chefsknifestogo,com and couldn't find them.

Long story short I came across this thread and had to comment! I went to the Kamikoto site and read about their "forging" process. I suspect these aren't even forged steel but stamped (just like the Chinese Henckles line) because of the way they described the process. No steel alloy was ever specified either. Just another Chinese knockoff with a very smooth marketing spiel, as other posters have said. Nice bamboo case though!!

Kudos to the guy(s) who actually bought these and tried them out. Buyers beware!!


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## SkipII

harrisonh said:


> REMEMEBER THAT AMAZON ALLOWS A PRETTY GOOD RETURN POLICY, ESPECIALLY AFTER KNOWING THAT THE CLAIMS ARE SO SPURIOUS
> 
> AND, JUST LIKE ON THE AMAZON SITE AND IN FACEBOOK, THE ONLY POSITIVE REVIEWS AND THE ONLY PEOPLE SUPPORTING THE COMPANY IN THIS THREAD ARE EITHER FAKE OR HAVE NO IDEA BAOUT WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT
> 
> I THINK WE NEED TO GET RID OF THE FAKE REVIEWERS


I've warned Facebook innumerable times to block these crooks. The ads still run.


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## rick alan

This post obviously qualifies as the official Kamikoto post for any in future womdering about this junk. We have one already for Kiwi knives, and a reasonable one for Dalstrong also.

It is interesting that here on Cheftalk a person does't really have to post a word to show their intelligence, or more specifically complete lack there of. in some cases you only have to look at the comments they give their "like" to.


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## jbroida

wait... i like kiwi knives


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## rick alan

jbroida said:


> wait... i like kiwi knives


Ahaha, and no reason not to, the post merely puts them within a "sane" perspective, following a comical parade of 1-post-wonders who attempt to elevate them to mythical status. Some inspired commenting there, I'll have to dig it up.


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## Erin Irvine

My boyfriend bought me the single chef knife, fully aware as he put it, "It was discounted so much that I'm sure its bulls**t, but I went for it anyway." Absolutely do not spend a whopping $675 for this knife, you can find it for less than $100 literally anywhere else. I'm sure its a scam, but nonetheless I enjoy using it now that I already own it. And I managed to chop the top of my finger off with it so cleanly that it took me a few seconds to even feel it. So hey, it's sharp!


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## rick alan

We already know Kamikoto are cheap crap, and no one here is every going to recommend them, for any price.

Welcome to Cheftalk Erin.


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## Ninacooks

Why does it matter if they are made in China. They are Japan steel. They are good knives and do the job!


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## phatch

Because steel alone doesn't make the knife any good. The grind, the taper, the heat treatment, the quench all effect the performance of the steel.

Then there is the geometry of the edge and it's immediate surroundings, the attention to detail paid in each of the processes mentioned above, fit and finish and still some more things.


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## Ninacooks

I understand that. Have you used them? What do you think there worth is? Honestly.


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## rick alan

Interesting how many first-time posters are showing up here to pump kamikoto, isn't it?


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## Ninacooks

rick alan said:


> Interesting how many first-time posters are showing up here to pump kamikoto, isn't it?


Not pump. But not being a hater either.


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## phatch

Ninacooks said:


> I understand that. Have you used them? What do you think there worth is? Honestly.


For understanding all that you sure failed to create a cogent argument regarding the critiques throughout this thread.

Saying a steel is Japanese is meaningless. The Japanese make all grades of steel. You didn't address its composition or any thing meaningful about it.

Yes I've only seen pictures. As noted they show inappropriate grind choices and poor quality in the grind. Post some nice high res close ups for us since you have these knives.

Considering the lack of real information about these knives, I'd say their worth is zero, the same as Cutco. Reputable companies share this kind of information with their customers rather than hype and ludicrous pricing only.

Sure, there are good knives at that price point but the makers supply the kind of info we've been taking about and they generate a reputation with test samples to reliable independent reviewers and so on.

Kamikotos behavior in this regard is a hallmark of low quality.


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## Tyler Watthanaphand

I have info to add about these knives. I'm not a cook, but somebody working in the IT field. I was just asked by this company (or their marketing agency) to wash all links containing bad reviews off Google.

Kamikoto, or their marketing agency are employing low cost workers to "click farm" The Amazon page with fake reviews to drop cheftalk.com's reviews to the bottom.

Basically the task to these low cost workers was this. Google "Kamikoto knives" and "Kamikoto knives review". Click the link of the google results only if the website is either Amazon, or the Kamikoto official website.


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## brianshaw

If that is true, it’s rather despicable. How much money were they offering to cleanse Google? Is it difficult to do?


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## phatch

I don't think it's as effective as links from high reputation sites. Googles formula is fairly robust to this kind of gamesmanship anymore.


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## rick alan

The work is one still in progress I guess as there are still several bad reviews of the knives on the first page of a google. They have buried the cheftalk posts though.


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## Smilemptysoul

I appreciate the comments on these. I ordered them for the "discounted" price of $279. I have not received them yet, but will be returning them unopened as soon as I do. I got suckered into the huge discount, as I have been wanting some good knives for a while now. Saw the good reviews without realizing the company pays people to do them. This kind of behavior is unacceptable from a company and I hope this thread comes up in more google searches.


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## Ninacooks

Smilemptysoul said:


> I appreciate the comments on these. I ordered them for the "discounted" price of $279. I have not received them yet, but will be returning them unopened as soon as I do. I got suckered into the huge discount, as I have been wanting some good knives for a while now. Saw the good reviews without realizing the company pays people to do them. This kind of behavior is unacceptable from a company and I hope this thread comes up in more google searches.


I have a friend who unfortunately did the same thing. If it hasn't shipped yet you can cancel the order and be fully refunded


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## scott livesey

a reputable knife maker is not going to advertise a knife for $600 then allow someone to sell it for $280. the website video is too pat, the red hot steel, the flying sparks, the dripping sweat, the secret Japanese steel. not much better than the starving college kid peddling similar knives, begging you to buy so they can eat till the end of the semester. maybe I am just too old and too tired, seen too much and can't forget.


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## Grilling Guru

The Kamikoto knives that are advertised on Facebook etc. are not the genuine article. I ordered the set of 3 for $271.95 using the 79OFF coupon code to verify the quality and planned on returning them immediately. As suspected, they appear to be made of low quality steel which arrived scratched and bent. The box is worth more then the knives inside. This has all the makings of a giant scam designed to fool the general public. Buyer beware!


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## rick alan

Hi GG and welcome to Cheftalk, it's a great site all around. Thanks for the input, and of course fact is even the knives off the Kamikoto website aren't the "real thing." They even look more so like the same Chinese crap.

Most of us knew from the start that realbkw and offbillet were pumpers, and oh woah to those who liked their comments, but the current mods like to see us take a conservative approach to these things.


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## Swiss Miss

Sadly, I got suckered too. I had a few glasses of wine and saw this "amazing offer that could not be ignored." The price didn't seem too bad, so I ordered them. People complained saying that they took weeks/months to arrive so I ordered over Christmas break thinking that they wouldn't come while I was away. Wrong. The package was delivered superfast while my friends were at my place.

I have not used them but was apprehensive from the get go since the wooden box came broken. "Each box is meticulously checked before shipping." Not. The clasp was broken and there is no way that shipping would have done that sort of damage. Then when I look at the fine print, you know the print that you cannot see when you are ordering, once an order has been placed, you cannot cancel it. You only have 14 days to return them (hopefully they will not harass me on this since I wasn't here - so far they haven't and said that I can). BUT THIS IS THE KICKER. I live in Switzerland and the knives were sent to me from Holland. BUT...I HAVE TO SEND THEM BACK TO SOME ADDRESS IN JAPAN. And they refuse to accept them back at the Dutch address. Why??? I think they do everything possible to make someone not want to return them. It will cost me a pretty penny to get them back to Japan - at least €60 if not more. And then who knows if they will actually reimburse me once they have them. This is not how a quality company would operate.

I am usually not this dense, so I am upset with myself too. I was just in a good pre-Christmas mood. Merry Christmas to me indeed!


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## Swiss Miss

Plus, on my credit card bill, the company is based in HONG KONG. Not Japan.


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## FNCrazy

I've been seeing their ad on Facebook for weeks. They look so good! The only decent knive I have is a Wusthof chef knive, but I've wanted to get a high quality Japanese knife.

I almost bought these on a whim, but their $1200 to $272 discount smacked of fake, so I looked around and found this site, where it seems I was right to be skeptical.

Now I need to search around the site to find high quality Japanese knives/brands. Unfortunately I don't know what I'm looking for when I see it.


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## Swiss Miss

Update: they supposedly reimbursed me and were friendly about it but I need to check my credit card statement. It cost me over $65 to send them back to Japan and then they took another €20 as a restocking fee. So I am out of pocket, but I feel so relieved if the credit goes through. There are so many high quality Japanese knives available...don't purchase on a whim!


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## chrislehrer

It's clear (I hope) that Kamikoto is a scam. But what we lack thus far is a hands-on review from someone who knows something serious about knives. We get remarks on out-of-the-box, their selling methods, their business practices. But we don't really have hard data with which to fight Facebook and Amazon shilling and the like.

Anyone?


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## rick alan

Page 2 comment by ScottH1 pretty much says it, unverified purchase review or not.


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## Swiss Miss

chrislehrer said:


> It's clear (I hope) that Kamikoto is a scam. But what we lack thus far is a hands-on review from someone who knows something serious about knives. We get remarks on out-of-the-box, their selling methods, their business practices. But we don't really have hard data with which to fight Facebook and Amazon shilling and the like.
> 
> Anyone?


This is the first review that popped up on Amazon so easy to find. Seems legit:

*Customer reviews*
*Top customer reviews*

Nora M. Anderson
_3.0 out of 5 stars_The story is better than the product, but the product is decent
August 15, 2017

During my career as a chef, I have found that Japanese knives have consistently outperformed their European counterparts in nearly every aspect. When I saw the deal that Kamikoto was offering, I wanted to believe in a new company trying to break into the US market. While I haven't exactly been disappointed, I certainly feel misled.

Quite simply, these are not Japanese knives. They're much heavier than I am used to, and despite what their literature may tell you, a nakiri knife is not a "meat cleaver," it's a vegetable knife. And really, the nakiri has been the downfall of my "Kanpeki" knife set. It's a monster. Heavier than even my wa-deba of the same length, with an edge shaped so poorly that it actually cuts in an arc. The knives are wickedly sharp, but they have not been sharpened with any sense of balance. The slicer and the petty knives have been serviceable, but the nakiri--straight out of the box--needed to be reshaped so it would cut straight. It was pretty awful.

And again, these knives are burly. Perhaps it's the "Honshu steel" they use that attribute to their heft, but my hand actually gets tired from using them. They're very comfortable, though, so I just kind of look at it as a forearm workout. My Tojirou and Togiharu knives that measure nearly 2 inches longer are vastly lighter. The slicing knife resembles the Henckels Miyabi knife I used to have is still much heavier.

These knives are purported to be made by "masters of tradition" from Japan. They are not. They're Chinese-made. The Chinese are no strangers to culinary tradition and make fine blades themselves, to be sure. These knives ARE sharp, and unlike the Misen knife I bought last year, actually made it through one of my shifts with their edges intact. But the whole premise behind them is false, and that takes away a lot from their quality. Are these knives worth anything near their MSRP shown on Amazon? Absolutely not. Are they worth the "special" price that I got them for? Maybe, but time will tell on that.


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## aliphares

Knife fans like most of the commentors on this post, myself included, really, really like playing with knives. If there's a new company trying to break into the western market, trust me, we'd be all over it. As a general advice to anyone wanting a real Japanese knife, don't use Amazon. Sure it has some very reputable brands, from everyone's stepping stone the tojiro to William Sonoma's darlings, the shun and global. But most of the "Japanese" knives are cheap Chinese clones, worth less than the box they came in. In general, if you can't find the knife on one of the major knife selling website (Japanese chef knives, chef knives to go, Japanese knife imports....) You probably should dig more around. a knife is so much more than just the steel you use. A well treated cheap steel will outperform the most expensive alloy that's been slapped on a handle and half ass ground. For the sort of money they're asking you can buy some of the best knives out there. and if it's a good knife, us know fetishists will definitely have talked about it at length on multiple discussions here at cheftalk. Do your homework before you buy kids.

Swiss Miss I'm sorry about what they're putting you through, hope it does work out. Even if you have to shell out most of what you paid just to return them, do it out of principle and get a good knife 
Merry belated Christmas also!


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## millionsknives

Oh my someone bought misen and kamikoto? Talk about a glutton for punishment! Theres an inverse relationship between quality and marketing. That for profit college on tv? Not very good


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## rick alan

Ahaha, somewhat vague and wishy-washy review giving the appearance of objectivity, dim witted statements like, "These knives ARE sharp," yeh that was a writer not a chef.

The Misen brought in $1.7M on Kickstarter, 2 similar China-based projects brought in $1.2M and 700K. I wonder how well komikoto has done? Seems a lot of inexperienced folks can just suddenly loose it over kitchen knives.


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## KenOfPortland

Too bad I didn’t happen on this thread prior to buying, but I wasn’t expecting too much anyway and was only risking a bit over a hundred dollars for the 8” chef knife. It does feel to me like most of the expense of making this is in first impressions. The finish is nice, the surfaces are very precise anywhere the handle meets the metal, the box it comes in is svelte (not that I care), and yes it’s the sharpest knife I’ve used in my VERY limited experience. It’s also definitely not a stamped blade. So the product doesn’t strike as completely devoid of quality. But with only a few dozen cuts through some fruits and vegetables, it’s WAY too soon to have any clue how well it will retain its sharpness. Of course, other posts commenting to the likely relative “softness” of the steel suggest it won’t stay sharp long, but time will tell. So far I prefer the feel of the Japanese-style handle and weighting relative to the old Zwilling I’ve been using, but I’m a complete novice. Since I’m actually purchasing a few different styles of blades for the sake of comparison before settling on what I want to invest in long-term, I figure I can throw this at jobs I don’t want to subject future better blades to? Eh we’ll see.


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## rick alan

Ken you don't have any idea whether or not it's a stamped blade, but I assure you it is a sheet stamped blade though, just like all the partial and full bolstered knives from numerous factories in many countries, induction heat an area of the stamped sheet and squish to form a lump for the bolster, or just braze it on. And that you feel it's the sharpest knife you ever used means absolutely nothing, as you intimated. We already know these kamikoto are lousy Chinese crap, so recommend moving on if you are actually interested in a decent knife.


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## KenOfPortland

If you say so, although you could tone down your condescension nonsense a tad. It’s too bad it didn’t turn out to be at least a meh-level purchase but as I’m in more of an exploratory phase in the first place it’s not a big deal either. A hundred dollars that could have been better spent on another knife that would have offered more insight into the contrasts between better styles of knives on the market. Oh well...


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## chrislehrer

Thanks for the review, @KenOfPortland . I hope you'll update us about these knives over the next year or so: it'll be interesting to learn what they're like after many cutting and sharpening sessions.


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## rick alan

Aren't there already enough non-fake reviews?

https://www.amazon.com/product-revi...e=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&showViewpoints=0

https://www.amazon.com/product-revi...e=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&showViewpoints=0


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## chrislehrer

Rick, I've said it before: the reviews (the honest ones, I mean) all cover two issues:

1. The company is in China and uses deceptive practices to get buyers to think they're getting high-end Japanese goods; furthermore, return policies are such as to make it effectively impossible to undo one's purchasing mistake.

2. Out-of-box sharpness, fit-and-finish, and preliminary impressions of steel quality and hardness.

I would like to see a growing database of knife brands and models that includes this information, but also the all-important issues attendant on extended use in a kitchen, and this last we do not have for Kamikoto. I'm not expecting great things, but I'm interested.


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## rick alan

I number of reviewers commented on how soft the steel is and that it doesn't hold an edge, and of course soft steel automatically = poor edge retention. Also that they are heavy. We also know these are very asymmetric but not real single-bevel. If I looked through all 300+ 1 star Amazon reviews I might find out how thick behind the edge, but I feel there is already enough amo here.

Not sure what sort of data base you'd like to see or where it is to grow from, but seems to me the best thing for all is that the current 300+ 1 star reviews will be enough to discourage further purchases of Kamikoto.

As far as Cheftalk, we already know quite a number of shills come here and are given the chance to play fast and loose for a while. On KKK these are called out immediately and banned.


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## brianshaw

KenofPortland doesn’t sound like a shill. He presented a reasonably decent review based on his real-world experience.

I appreciated hearing a real buyers experience. That, plus all of the other shill and 1-star reviews is interesting. It’s not in anyone’s best interest to shut him up, discredit his opinion, or drive him away from this site.

Obviously this isn’t the knife brand for many of us. But that shouldn’t mean others can‘t express their opinions or experiences.

It seems like for every shill on this forum there are two bullies.


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## rick alan

Brian, where did anyone say Ken was a shill? And funny, I don't see the bullies. But to complete your final statement, there are also fortunately only a very tiny number here full of BS.


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## brianshaw

rick alan said:


> Brian, where did anyone say Ken was a shill? And funny, I don't see the bullies. But to complete your final statement, there are also fortunately only a few here full of BS.


Well from thread context it sure sounds like someone may have been implying that. If that wasn't your intention, or anyone else's, then accept my apology.

... and you are certainly welcome to your opinion who is "full of BS", as is anyone else.


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## rick alan

BS aside, to repeat what others have said in this post, there is nothing much inciteful to be gained by using the knives of a hoaky Chinese cheap knife manufacturer masquerading as a Japanese company of master craftsmen.

But I must say what is intersting is that Kamikoto has attracted 5 pages of comments in a single post. Now how far will it go I think is the most interesting thing that might come out of this.


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## brianshaw

rick alan said:


> BS aside, to repeat what others have said in this post, there is nothing much inciteful to be gained by using the knives of a hoaky Chinese cheap knife manufacturer masquerading as a Japanese company of master craftsmen.


I agree to a large extent. The knife CERTAINLY seems to be less than purported.

But I think you meant "insightful"... which I would disagree since the First Amendment assures a freedom to speak ones mind and to anyone not under such a privilege there is something called common courtesy.

Plus, it's always usefull to hear first-hand assessment of the real product to supplement the assessment of specs and "feedback". Truth be told, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the 1-star reviews were shilled by haters, whether they have personal experience or not. Who's to say, though... we all tend to believe whatever supports our position.

So... to each his own; live and let live.


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## rick alan

Aside from the fact that this forum is not a democracy, as moderators have frequently pointed out, the first amendment has nothing to do with intelligent "insight" (and thanks for the spelling lesson), and this forum exists for that kind of insight, and not for ignorant, cognitively dissonant and otherwise baseless opinionating or outright BS. Most people come here looking for insights from people who have used and are otherwise familiar with knives of established performance and value over a broad spectrum of performance and cost, and can otherwise separate the wheat from the chaff. And that is what the regular contributors here strive to provide, with only a very tiny number of exceptions.


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## brianshaw

rick alan said:


> snip
> 
> Most people come here looking for insights from people who have used and are otherwise familiar with knives of established performance and value over a broad spectrum of performance and cost, and can otherwise separate the wheat from the chaff. And that is what the regular contributors here strive to provide, with only a very tiny number of exceptions.


Perfect... that seems to be exactly the purpose this thread serves!


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## rick alan

With an amusingly obvious number of exceptions.


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## brianshaw

rick alan said:


> With an amusingly obvious number of exceptions.


Agreed... and thank goodness for the insights of those who actually held a Kamikoto and gave us first-hand user reports to set the facts straight!

I know I get sick and tired of being pummeled by their ad on Facebook. The ads sure look slick but...


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## KenOfPortland

chrislehrer said:


> Thanks for the review, @KenOfPortland . I hope you'll update us about these knives over the next year or so: it'll be interesting to learn what they're like after many cutting and sharpening sessions.


We'll see if I end up using them long enough for that :lol:. Also I don't think my superficial observations as a cooking newbie quite rise to the occasion of qualifying as a proper "review" as yet. I'm not so much at the point where I can reliably cook a medium-rare steak without a sous vide.

But I've ordered a couple knives from another company that presumably qualifies as less "hoakie". I figure experience with them will dissuade me from using this Kamikoto piece rather quickly. But maybe for grins I'll still try to use the Kamikoto here and there to at least verify it's as mediocre in the long-term as suspected. I don't expect otherwise, but I agree it will be more useful to say "I bothered to use this for x months and the blade now spins around freely in the plastic handle wtf?" than just saying "China sucks". A lot of Japanese companies in other industries have moved primary manufacturing to China. Fat chance getting 4K TVs competently manufactured anywhere else for under $2k, for example. But I guess knives are a different animal in that regard.


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## youraveragecook

Noob here! I'm glad I ran into this insightful thread. Been seeing Kamikoto ads on my FB thread forever now, and have been curious. I thought it was time for me to get some big boy knives, so did some digging and saw the reviews here and some awful fake reviews on Amazon.

For my first Japanese knife, I'm "settling" for the Ishikawa White #2 Santoku. Purchasing from chefsknivestogo as recommended by twistedsage on post #21.

Thank you!


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## rick alan

I will just warn you that Marc Richmond, and hid sidekick knife nerd, are famous for the hype and bologna, and this knife seems at the top of that. This knife will wedge some in carrots and such, the secondary bevel is 15 degrees inclusive, not the primary bevel which you can see just below it. On an ordinary gyuto the secondary would be about 4 degrees inclusive. The description just screams BS. Actual cutting edge will probably be around 20+ degrees inclusive. !5 degrees inclusive is steeper than even a straight straight razor, extremely delicate.

This is sort of a cheap version of an Usuba, which would be thicker and have a hollow grind on the back side. This knife would be OK for thin slicing, with a good bit of practice to counter the steering problem, onions and such, but not a good all-arounder at all very narrow usage range. With the flat back you'd have some real sticktion problems, and I feel a more typical grind would work better in this knife's narrow range. Granted though, the knife should have good food release.

Chris Lehrer can tell you about Usubas, and the problems of using them. I personally use a laser with 50/50 grind (typical for lasers) for thin slicing. You can easily use them for Usuba work, like katsurumaki (making "vegetable skin")

Just want you to know what you are getting.


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## dogfood

Have two Japanese knives..they have been archived for 25+ years
Used to use the old (bottom) stamped Suncraft -for a bit if sashimi/sushi (excuse my bad stone work)
Was given the boxed Sakon usuba - never used
Dropped by the Knifewear shop last weekend & tried a $$$$ Gyuto unit, very nice- I do admit!
But,.. I leave my knives on the counter, in the sink, and (heaven forbid) drop them on the floor.
I'm not going to spend $$ for a princess knife that will chip/corrode, TYVM.
Just got a Work Sharp Ken Onion..more than happy with the edge(es) on all my SS kitchen knives..not bothering to use a stone at this point..
I do not display my knives on a mag strip, fondle them, polish them, nor do I show them off..(other than now)
I use knives for what they were meant for..a tool!
One could purchase a commemorative gold plated .30-.30 also..would one use it professionally?
Probably not.
/end opinion


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## phatch

What does this have to do with the topic?


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## smandracchia

I've been an Executive Chef for about 27 years in DC and Manhattan and grew up in a family of commercial fishermen with a knife in my hand. I am also a custom blade smith and specialize in unique Chef knives. I work with my own Damascus, D2 and Blue and White Steel. I was so put off by their ad's on Facebook that I purposely wasted the cash and bought a set just to see them. Trust me - if you want a true professional Japanese Knife go to Korin in NYC. ( or I'll make you one but I'm no Bob Kramer ) Kamikoto is a sad slick marketing joke producing inferior quality cutlery with no pedigree nor information on steel composition or degree of hardness. I took a file to one (usually how we check hardness after a quench) and easily gouged the spine. They are somewhat comfortable (handle is like a Shun) but the edge is crap and there is no way these were finished on a stone. They were edged on a belt and quickly given a fast polish. The edge geometry makes no sense and just don't waste your time or money. I did it for you. Steve


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## O'Sulivan

I popped on line to research my too good to be true kamikoto knife set my very excited dad just got me for Christmas. Yes, it's a lovely box with dove tail joinery, and the knives look pretty! I pulled out a couple of the knives to try them hoping beyond hope my dear dad hadn't been snookered. I can't say I know anything about great knife making, but i do know how a really good one feels and ultimately how it does it's job. The kamikoto knives stick to food, aren't really sharp and most importantly feel far too soft to hold any kind of edge. This was a very generous gift for my dad, he did get them through Amazon deeply discounted  but with Canadian conversion, duties etc pretty sure he paid about $400-500 That's very upsetting and too much $$ for my dad to spend. Not sure how I'm gong to handle this one.


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## chrislehrer

Do you know anyone who's serious about sharpening? I would say that the proof in the pudding lies there.


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## rick alan

Soft steel "and" terrible geometry, why bother? These are not fixer-uppers.

O'Sullivan, return them to Amazon, take the money and buy some real knives, tell your dad knives are something very personal and thank him for making it possible for you to get your dream knives.


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## chrislehrer

Good thought, @rick alan !


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## mike9

If I never see the word "Kamikoto" again it will be too soon.


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## Doctor marvin

Well, yes I'm new to the "nicer side" of kitchen knives. Biggest I've went was done pos "chef" knife from freaking Walmart. I kept seeing stuff on kamikoto knives, so I looked up reviews and videos and got suckered into it for 254.20 on a 3 knife set. Then out of curiosity I find this gem of a thread. Now their knives sound like a polished turd, but in panic mode I canceled my unshipped order and for their blades being garbage their reply on my cancellation email was prompt, polite, and accurate as I received an email from Amazon pay as well stating I would receive a full refund and that my order was cancelled. Now my question to you gentlemen and ladies with experience in quality kitchen knives is what would be your suggestions on a knife or knife set in that $300 or below price range?


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## Doctor marvin

chrislehrer said:


> Do you know anyone who's serious about sharpening? I would say that the proof in the pudding lies there.


On a scale of 1-10 on experience with kitchen knives I'm at around 0.5, but I hunt alot and have experience with field dressing knives and how to sharpen them to the point I can shave. From what I know there, if the steel doesnt have some flexibility it will break easy and if the steel isnt hard enough to hold an edge for any amount of time in the field you might as well throw it over your left shoulder because it will leave you stranded when you need it. Clearly kitchen knives dont hold the same consequences for you if they dont hold an edge, but if your gonna pay good money for a knife why would you want something you may or may not have to continually sharpen to use everyday?


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## chrislehrer

I really meant, if you have these knives and can't return them, I'd be interested to know how they sharpen. Badly, I suspect.

My recommendation is always Masamoto KS, but I gather there are supply issues, and the price may be excessive these days. If you can get it, though, it's like nothing else. Pure black magic.


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## rick alan

You sound like a Tanaka blue 2 240 gyuto kinda guy to me, or maybe the Ginsanko. That will leave you enough for a nice 150/6" utility/petty, or maybe some nice stones. If you need butchery knives then Fibrox is a good cheap source.


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