# dignity or $$$$



## danno (Mar 12, 2001)

Hello fellow pastry and baking prfossionals and all others.I just wanted to thank everybody for the responces I have got in the past from some of the posts i have brought to the table.For the last 7 months i have been working as a pastry chef instructor at a culinary school that grants an associates degree in applied science. I consider myself to have a great deal of knowledge and pretty good refined skills in breads and in pastry that i have been to acumulate over the past 12 years. I should get to the point. My place of employment allows students to make up any lab classes that they have missed. Some students that i have had missed anywhere from 50 to 80 % of lab classes, and the school is allowing them to try and make up these classes in one or two days. we as instructors are supposed to do what ever we have to do to pass them so that their financial aid doesnt get cut off. so i guess it comes down to money as long as they pay they pass. well i have a problem with that. I went to school 12 years, and i missed 1 day in 2 years. I know there is a mixed crowd here at this site but for me, pastry school was a great start. I have a problem with just giving these students a passing grade when thay dont deserve it. When i hear chefs complaining about new employees that have just got out of school. I can see what they are talking about, I just isnt worth it to me, not for a pay check. I guess what im asking is this common practice in culinary schools, are there any kind laws that could be posibly being broken. thanks for listening.


----------



## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

Someone acredits colleges, find that board and tell all. I think it's your responsiblity to do so! To keep quite in any way, shape or form is to be apart of this. 

Parents and students across the country are paying for an education. Any school not providing that in return for money is taking bribes and should not be in business! They dirty the whole system!


----------



## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

danno,
I can only speak for myself and this area. I have a young lady that works with us who is currently enrolled in a program just as yours.
She often is very concerned why her instructors spend more time with the students who need to catch up then with those who are thirsty for knowledge. She also receives co-op credit for working with us. I take this program very seriously with her, but have yet to see her instructor in two semesters. She is supposed to visit and go over our objectives twice a semester.
Unfortunately, like any other business, money is the bottom line.
My suggestion to you would be to follow the rules to a tee with those not interested and be selective on who give the 110%, and maybe focus on the few.
This is just my opinion and I'm certainly in no way telling you what to do. I'm actually thinking of doing what your doing in the future and have addressed this issue with anyone I can. I feel it's the students job to get the education, you provide your knowledge. I personally would be happier graduating a few well rounded students then a class where I had to babysit some and take time away from the good students.
Tough place to be! Please keep us posted on how you deal with your situation.
good luck
pan


----------



## lotuscakestudio (Jun 28, 2001)

I went to L'Academie de Cuisine (near DC) and this was NOT ALLOWED! There was no such thing as a make-up day. If you didn't come to class, too freakin' bad! The best you could do was get notes from a classmate and see if anyone was willing to show you what was covered. We were allowed to miss 2 days of class before it affected our grade. Very few students did used those "sick days" and they were indeed truley sick. Only 1 guy missed a lot of days and I don't even know if he graduated or not as he didn't even show up at graduation (to save face, they announced everyone's names, but that doesn't mean everyone got a real certificate). I think their strict policy was a good one and we all showed more respect for the instructor. In fact, I can probably count on one hand how many times someone dared show up late! And always for real reasons like a huge accident on the freeway which backed up traffic for miles, not just some lame excuses. 

I'm with Wendy! REPORT THEM! If that doesn't work, stick to your guns and flunk the students who don't show for class.


----------



## danno (Mar 12, 2001)

Just wanted to thank you guys for your responses. This past weekend, any students that had failed a class could make up any part of that class (lab, tests, quizzes, or finals) that they failed the first time through. Of about 115 failing students only about 35 showed up. I do agree with you Lotus they shouldn’t get a chance to make it up. Basically what I saw, any student that showed up even if they were late were given a high enough grade to so they could pass the class. I had only one student in the bakeshop show for a final, which he should have taken 6 months ago, well he failed. I refuse to cave in and pass anybody just for a paycheck. I think I will take your advice Panini and focus on the ones that want to learn, and there are quite a few. This whole thing seems to promote a negative environment amongst the instructors, and has had somewhat of an adverse effect on my attitude. But I need to keep my head high stick to my guns doesn’t rock the boat too much because like most things in life it’s only temporary. Oh By the way panini, this institution I speek of is only a few hours south of you. But from all your posts I have read im sure you have a good nose sniffing out any duds.


----------



## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

Just curious danno: is this a public institution or private one? We have a pretty decent culinary program at our technical colleges in Wisconsin. Given that they are public, the instructors have certain rules to follow so that instructional standards are met by the students. I think they have some kind of process for providing opportunities to pass- sort of like a just cause standard in labor relations, if that makes any sense. (That is, you have a defined set of steps you must follow before they can be dumped, and if you follow them, it won't come back to haunt you.)

I said that because of your comment about focusing on the ones that want to learn. Public institutions sometimes don't have that luxury- but I'm not entirely sure about tech schools elsewhere.

Just curious.


----------



## danno (Mar 12, 2001)

Hi mezzaluna this is a private school and like any other school we have policies and procedures to follow as well. Last month we got a five-year extension from our accrediting body but they also audited us and I think a lot cot covered up. The biggest problem I see here is that the students miss way too much lab time. And they are allowed to go on to the next class. The school allows the students to make up any labs, tests, etc on one Saturday a month. Well this past weekend of 115 failing students only 30 showed and no matter what kind of effort they showed they got a passing grade. A few months ago we had a staff meeting and one topic was if the students don’t have a passing grade they would get cut off from their financial aid. It just doesn’t seem ethical..


----------

