# Potted herb garden?



## oenotainer (Apr 25, 2005)

Anyone out there have any tips for an aspiring herb gardener with no dirt to call one's own?

I do, however, have a deck outside my apartment, and I was thinking about creating a little culinary herb garden on the deck using pots of some sort--any tips on how to get started? Should I just buy some of those little $1.99 plants from the nursery and repot them, or should I seek out great specimens and do cuttings?

The herbs I tend to use most often are flat-leaf parsley, rosemary, thyme, basil, and chives, but I'm open to anything.

Thanks!


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## phoebe (Jul 3, 2002)

Herbs do really well in containers. I've currently got chives, flat-leaf parsley, spearmint, borage, purslane, lemon thyme, Genovese and lemon basils, regular and pineapple sages, rosemary, and lemon verbena all in pots. Just buy some good-quality potting soil (Dr. Earth, Whitney Farms, or E.B. White--skip the Home Depot or other discount stuff) and add a little compost at the beginning. Cuttings are great but they take time, so I'd advise you just to go ahead and buy small plants and repot.
You didn't say how much sun your deck gets. Flat-leaf parsley likes some afternoon shade while the others you mention are probably fine in more sun. You can also combine herbs in one large container, but rosemary can get pretty big and would probably prefer its own pot. Also, if you get any type of mint or oregano, be sure to keep them separated in their own pots as well. They're very invasive.

Have fun :bounce:


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## redace1960 (Apr 1, 2005)

heres some general potted stock rules:
1. check them every day to see if they need water. you do this by sticking you finger in the dirt; if you can feel dampness at the surface or to the depth of your first knuckle then you're fine. otherwise time to water.
2. watering-tapwater is fine, but use a little plant food in with it once a week since the nutrients in the soil tend to rinse out faster in pots. liquid alaska fish fertilizer is good. instructions on the bottle. rainfall is also o.k.
3. if you live in a northern clime take plants indoors during the winter.
4. if you're on a balcony use plastic pots, not ceramic. it safer.
5. make sure the pots have a drain hole in the bottom. the plant has to be able to drain (the type of pots that don't drain are called sleeves or cachepots and are meant to be used over an existing ugly nursery pot sitting on top of pebbles inside). i know this sounds elementary but you'd be surprised how many people don't know this.
6. basil is an annual-it dies completely every year. the rest you mentioned are perennial. the parsely and chives die back to the dirt, but they return from the crown next year.
7. pots sitting flat on a solid surface will leave stains on it. put them up on a handful of gravel-if you're cheap-or special little 'plant feet' you can buy at the chi chi garden stores.


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## headless chicken (Apr 28, 2003)

Is indoors preferable to plant them outside in a garden? 

I've been considering planting some herbs myself (rosemarry, maybe some thyme, flat leaf parsley, and basil). I got chives and they seem to thrive every year plus I have no idea where it came from, just decided to grow 1 year w/o us planting them. 

Any advice?


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## pinot (Jan 11, 2005)

All those herbs are easy to grow in pots. But if you are going to use them regularily , plant single varieties in the biggest pots you can. This way they will produce alot more.

As mentioned water often and with a good liquid fertiliser , ensure perfect drainage and you will soon have a urban jungle on your hands! But basically the bigger and greener the leaves the more water and fertiliser required.


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

This is a great group. I'm so glad I found Chef Talk!

Oeno -- you've got some great advice here. Just thought I'd throw that in!  Have fun with your container herb garden! Don't forget sage....


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## phoebe (Jul 3, 2002)

There is such a thing as over-feeding and overwatering. I'm an expert in both of those  ! For instance, thyme doesn't like to be fed or watered much, and basil likes to go a little dry before getting watered again. 
An excellent book for edible container gardening (that's gardening of edibles in containers NOT gardening of edible containers  ) is by Rose Marie Nichols McGee and Maggie Stuckey and it's called _The Bountaiful Container_ . They give very simple, clear advice for everything from veggies and fruits to herbs and edible flowers, all grown in pots.

The Bountiful Container


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## redace1960 (Apr 1, 2005)

re headless chickens post:
depends on where you live and a bazillion (note use of technical terminology)
other factors, and thats a whole 'nother location on the web. generally, 
herbs do well outdoors as long as they have at least six hours of sun and some protection from the wind.
since you're in a place that has chives growing wild i'll take a leap and say you've got no worries. but please do your research first if you've never gardened before. its not a complex or difficult subject but plants do require some specific care and conditions-rather like owning a fish. ignore them ninety percent of the time, but that remaining little bit is absolutely crucial.


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Hi guys...I've got a question regarding my indoor herbs that are planted in large containers.

I've got a few herbs that I've tried to grow. Oregano, basil, rosemary and thyme. The problem that I have is that the plant just keeps continuing to grow. As I've said...I've got large containers (24"high15"dia) and especially the basil just grows out of control. The thing got so big that It was rather tough and woody at the interior and would need watering twice a day. 

Is there a way to limit growth? or a certain variety that won't over-grow? I'd like to plant some chives, mint and some others...but I'm hesitant because of the problems I've had.

thanks

dan


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## mudbug (Dec 30, 1999)

First of all, you aren't harvesting enough to keep the plant under control. You can harvest up to 1/3 of the plant without causing damage. Do this with Basil especially to prevent it from becomming woody and bolting (going to seed).

Consider going to smaller pots. They'll grow as large as they can until they get rootbound no matter what the size of the pot is. 

If you can plant in the ground, go for it. It's far less maintenance and watering.


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Thanks mudbug 

perhaps I'm being a bit too gentle with my basil. I've tried smaller pots before...but I ran into the plant flowering because it was pot bound. So I moved to a larger and larger pot. Maybe if I had been harvesting more often I wouldn't have had a problem with the basil becoming potbound.

ok...I'll cook with more basil :bounce: 


...I've always wanted to use more basil off my plants...but I didn't want to stress them out.

thanks 

dan


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## mudbug (Dec 30, 1999)

Herbs in general are very forgiving and they love being harvested. They will thrive. Don't be afraid. A plant's sole purpose is to "bolt" (go to seed) or otherwise propogate. By harvesting and preventing that from happening, you prolong the life of the plant for your own use. Now you'll know for next year or if you take cuttings now that are not woody and root them for new plants to overwinter.


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## redace1960 (Apr 1, 2005)

gonefishin'- rampant basil sounds like a pretty good problem to me! 'bugs right-keep it well knocked back and as soon as you see flowerbuds, pick them off. what i want to know is what in the heck are you doing that you get monster potted basil?!?? let me in on this!


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

When I was at the fair last week, one of the judges took me over to the flower side where a "bush Basil" plant was entered. He wasn't sure exactly what kind it was but it appears to be a Finn Vert or Fino Verde.








It was short, compact and dense. The leaves were thin, oblong somewhat and packed in there. When I smelled it, it was a nice, sweet intense Basil aroma. Very nice for indoor Basil I would think. Here's a link to some. http://www.seedsofchange.com/garden_...tem_no=PS15505


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## redace1960 (Apr 1, 2005)

i really like the looks of this plant. thanks for the links; im there!


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## xiaobao12 (Oct 2, 2009)

Thanks for all the information guys. I just bought a potted organic winter basil from Whole Foods yesterday. Should I transplant it right away to a larger pot? Also, I was told to water it from underneath (the pot sits in a tray and I just put water inside the tray) - is this correct or does it matter? Also, I have read different facts regarding sun exposure. Should the plant be in direct exposure to sunlight and for how long?

TIA!


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

If it's in one of those little 3" or 4" pots I would transplant it right away. More than likely it's rootbound, or about to become so. 

Bottom watering is fine. In fact it's often preferred, as it prevents some problems, such as damping off disease. 

I'm not familiar with "winter basil." But there are about 27 basils available, so that's no surprise. As a general rule, however, winter sun isn't the best because the wavelength isn't right for growth. What happens, assuming a bright, sunny window, is that the growth rate slows (or even stops), and the plants tend to go spindly as they reach for the sun.

This is fine if all you're doing is holding the plants over until spring. But if you intend to regularly harvest them through the winter, artificial lighting is a better bet than natural. A simple 2-bulb flourescent fixture is all it takes. Maintain the fixture only 2-3 inches above the height of the plants for maximum effectiveness.


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## xiaobao12 (Oct 2, 2009)

Thank you for this interesting knowledge, Heirloomer. So, even in full winter sun, the growth rate might stop!?!! 

As for harvesting, should I try to harvest it (not more than 1/3, right?) by picking off the leaves at the bottom of the leaf or the bottom of the stem?


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Yes, even in a sunny winter window plants can go into a sort of stasis. They don't die. But they don't grow much, either. Semi-dormant might be the better term. Artifical light, either alone or as a supplement, will keep them growing happily. 

Don't bother with the expensive "grow-lites" however. They're totally unnecessary. All you need are the regular cool-white bulbs. Grow lights, among other things, contain the full light spectrum. If you were growing vegetables they'd be worthwhile, because fruit needs red light for ripening. But with herbs all you care about is foliage, and the full spectrum isn't needed for that. 

Around here a 2-bulb "shop" light, ready to go with a pair of bulbs, runs around 15 bucks. If you hang it on chains over the plant you can easily adjust it's height as necessary. 

As to harvest, it depends. With herbaceous herbs, such as thyme and rosemary, you are cutting complete sprigs of new growth. So there are no top-or-bottom rules. 

With leafy herbs, such as basil, oregano, and marjoram, it's always better to pinch off what you need from the tops. This promotes branching, and the plants become more bushy than tree-like. But, again, with oregano and the like, you're probably cutting whole stems at any one time and stripping the leaves off the stems. So, again, the top or bottom question doesn't loom important. 

Winter growing herbs in particular do not need much in the way of fertilizer. Because you do want to promote leaf growth, a little fish emulsion or other high-nitrogen fertilizer, about once a month, should be fine. 

BTW, looking over this whole thread, I notice one minor error. Parsley is not a perenniel. It's a bienial. The first year it puts out lots of foliage. Second year it's energy goes into seed production. There is still leaf growth, to be sure. But it's not highly productive, and not as sweet. So you want to start parsley on a annual basis, to assure continued harvest.


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## xiaobao12 (Oct 2, 2009)

Heirloomer you are the besteace:

I went to Home Depot and picked up some Organic Potting Soil by Miracle Grow. I transplanted the basil plant to a terracotta pot (that was given to me free of charge by the lady at Whole Foods). After 24 hours, the plant is still alive - whew. However, this pot only has one hole. So I can't really water it from the bottom.....

As far as the bulb, I should have read your post before I went to home depot. I was told to get a grow bulb (4.99). It's a 60W Agro-Lite Plant Light. The bulb is tinted blue but the lady said that the light given off will still be white. She told me to get this because it can go into any regular light bulb fixture. Is this bulb overkill? I'm still a little confused about this "shop light" and cool-white bulbs? How is it different from regular light bulbs?

Also, I'm pretty sure that there have been pests nibbling away at my plant - I don't see them though. I gather this is normal and nothing can be done about it?

Also, there are some leaves that have very tiny spotting. The spots are about the size of this period --> . and a little bigger. What causes these?

Sorry for the questions Heirloomer but you seem to be extremely knowledgeable - thanks in advance!


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Xiaoboa, wish we'd had talked first, as I could have saved you some money. 

The Miracle Grow soil is prefertilized. Not a big deal, except it's more expensive than others due to that. Anyway, there should be no need for you to add additional fertilizer to the pot at all. Especially as the Miracle Grow fertilizer is already nitrogen rich.

(If you look at the package it will tell you the NKP relationship. There will be a three phase number---something like 12-5-5 or 10-10-10 or 15-7-5. In sequence that refers to the proportion of Nitrogen, Potasium, and Phosphorous.)

As to bottom watering. Put the pot in another dish (there are terra cotta trays made for this purpose, btw. Also plastic ones). Use some sort of shim to raise the plant pot a slight amount. Then pour your water into the bottom tray. 

Whether from the top or bottom, overwatering is something to watch out for. Too much water is worse than too little. 

There's no way of identifying pests or diseases without seeing the problem. Two recommendations, though. First, get some insecticidal soap (Safers is the one you most hear about, but there are other brands). Working outside, spray the plant with water, to dislodge as many pests as you can. Then spray with the soap, being sure to get the undersides of the leaves as well as the tops. Then bring the plant inside. You may have to repeat this because the spray doesn't immediately kill pests. It works by affecting them when they feed off the foliage. 

As to the spots, there's no telling. They could be meaningless (being scar tissue from where critters have bitten the plant) to signs of a serious disease. Best bet is to take a couple of infected leaves to the nearest Extension Service office (there's one in most counties) and ask them to ID the problem and suggest remedies. 

Lighting: By "cool white" we're talking about a normal, everyday flourescent bulb. You can get fixtures for them (and the bulbs) ranging from 18" to as much as 8 feet. The standard is four feet, and those holding two bulbs are often referred to as shop lights, because they're popular in workshops. But if you're just talking about one or two plants, an 18 inch "under cabinet" light will work just fine. 

The designators (i.e., cool white, warm, grow, etc.) refer to how much of the full color spectrum the bulb provides. From your eye's point of view it doesn't matter---you'll see them as white light. From the plant's point of vew, however, the wavelengths that produce color may or may not be important. As I mentioned eairlier, for instance, fruit needs the red spectrum to ripen. Foliage, on the other hand, doesn't need anything on that end of the spectrum, but is happier with the blue/violets (which is what you find in the cool white bulbs). 

Reason anything besides cool whites are so expensive is that they have to add specialized pigments to them in order to get the full spectrum. The normal powder used in flourescent bulbs doesn't have that stuff. So, both because the additional materials add cost, and there is more involved in the manufacturing process (and, sometimes, greed), the bulbs cost more. The full spectrum lights also burn out faster. 

To put it in perspective, a four-foot full spectrum bulb can cost as much as $8, compared to a cool-white at about $1.29. 

There is nothing wrong using the grow lights (other than cost). That is, there won't be a negative affect on the plant. You're just paying for something you don't need. 

I'm concerned about directionality, however. The bulb you bought is designed to replace an incandescent bulb, and fits into that sort of socket. What sort of fixture are you using for the bulb you bought? Keep in mind that you want the light source kept only an inch or two higher than the plant, so either the light or the plant will have to be adjusted fairly regularly.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

_After 24 hours, the plant is still alive - whew_

You might, after a couple of days, notice some wilting and droopiness. Don't dispair. It's a natural reaction, called "transplant shock" or "root shock." Just continue giving the plant some TLC, and it will recover soon as the roots settle in to their new home.


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## xiaobao12 (Oct 2, 2009)

Heirloomer, thanks so much for all that information.

Regarding your question about light fixture, I have a lamp from Ikea that has an flexible arm. I'm just going to stick the bulb in there an put the bulb about 1 - 2 inches away from the plant like you suggested. How much light should the plant get / day?

About the types of light, thank you for clarifying that. My question is, does an everyday incandescent bulb work as a cool white (since an incandescent bulb is not a flourescent bulb)? If so, I'll just use that and return the grow bulb.

I did some research and came across this:

Why do regular light bulbs have different effects on plants than fluorescent lights? Regular (incandescent) light bulbs create light with a hot filament. This light is relatively reddish and contains very little blue, violet, or ultraviolet light. *Since it comes from a hot, thermal source, this light covers all the wavelengths from infrared to the green and blue range of the spectrum continuously and smoothly, although its intensity peaks in the red and orange range of the spectrum.* Fluorescent lights, on the other hand, create light through the fluorescence of atoms, molecules, and solids. The light is not created by hot materials so it contains certain regions of the spectrum, often including blue and violet light. Depending on the exact make-up of the fluorescent lamp, this light may include wavelengths that are particularly important to a plant's metabolic processes.

It seems like the sentence in RED contradicts the sentence in orange, no?

And regarding the NKP relationship of the Miracle Grow soil, it said 0.1 - .05 - .05. The numbers are quite low compared to the sample numbers you wrote...guess all that matters is the ratio, right?

Thank you so much Heirloomer :bounce:


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Xiaoboa, note that it's not quite contradicting itself. Incandescent lights can throw off the whole spectrum, but they peak at the red end. But there's more involved than just the visible spectrum, and, on a practical level, incandescent bulbs do not promote plant growth on any substantial level. 

As t the NKP ratios, I was in town this afternoon and specifically checked. But those are the numbers I saw. The thing to remember is that no matter where you put the decimal point, you have twice the amount of nitrogen than either potasium or phosphorous. The samples I gave were just that, examples to clarify what I meant.

BTW, a "good, general purpose fertilizer" (which is how the literature always phrases it) is 10-10-10. The numbers, incidentally, have to do both with the relationship of the nutrients to each other and to the inert materials carrying them. Thus, 10-10-10 is not the same as, say, 1-1-1 even though it appears to be so. 

A balanced fertilizer can be achieved either with synthetics or organic materials, depending on your outlook. 

There's no reason I can think of that your gooseneck lamp won't work. And, as I said, the grow light won't do any harm. So you may as well stick with it. Eventually you might have to raise the lamp base, to keep the bulb where it belongs, but that shouldn't be much of a problem. 

For ideal growth, plants require a minimum of six hours of full light a day. I tend to treat indoor herbs like seedlings, and provide them with 16 hours of light, using inexpensive timers to turn the lights on and off.


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## xiaobao12 (Oct 2, 2009)

Hey Heirloomer,

Since my basil plant was doing very well, I decided to go ahead and buy a lemon thyme plant! That has been transplanted as well and it seems to be okay.

I also got an inexpensive timer to turn the lights on during the middle of the night.

As far as the thyme plant, is it basically the same care as the basil plant? Doing some research told me that it likes the soil to be on the dryer side and should have plenty of sun (or my grow light), just like basil.

Oh, and about harvesting - my basil plant is consistently growing new leaflets. Is there a point where if I don't harvest it, it affects the growth? Because right now, it is starting to get bushier at the top. I would like the leaves to get larger before harvesting.... 

Thank you!


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Yeah, thyme and basil are a little different, but not significantly so. You can water the basil a bit more frequently with no harm. But it's not really necessary. With almost all herbs, less is better.

The thymes are classed as herbacious perennials, native to the hillsides of the northern Mediterranean region. That translates as sunny, semi-arid conditions. Thus, they prefer it on the dryer side.

As I mentioned way back when, I'm not familiar with winter basil. At least not by that name. So can't say for certain how to make the leaves grow larger. It might be that small leaves are the nature of the beast? Keep in mind, too, that everytime you pinch off new leaves that stem will likely divide. Which is why you're getting a bushy plant (which is what you want).

I usually just grow Genovese, which is a broad-leaved variety. To promote large leaves with it I just stop picking for awhile. Sure, there will still be some new growth, but most of the plant energy goes into enlarging the existing leaves.

Why don't you stop harvesting for awhile and see what develops. That's the best way of learning how a particular plant will behave.

_Since my basil plant was doing very well, I decided to go ahead and buy a lemon thyme plant! _

Aha! Perhaps I should have warned you. Growing your own herbs can become a pernicious habit.


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## xiaobao12 (Oct 2, 2009)

Hi Heirloomer,

Sorry I haven't respond. Thank you for your post again.

I will leave my basil plant alone for a while and see what happens. There are MANY new stems and buds but the leaves are smallish to small in size. I really do hope the leaves will get big. I am a bit concerned with the crowding though - is this okay? (It already is a bit crowded).

Also, I'm getting a few leaves that obviously have been munched on so I just pick them off - I didn't get the wash like you suggested because I want to keep this plant organic and I want to be able to use the leaves right off of the plant. 

Thanks for the info about thyme. It's a small plant with only about 6 sprigs =(. How can I get more sprigs to develop?

Yes, growing herbs is very addictive. My fiance says I'm crazy for using the light with the timer (it goes on during the night too). You certainly have taught me a lot!:roll:


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## anjela (Dec 2, 2009)

My Basil never grows as I eat it all the time, I end up buying a pot a week, if I bought a spare pot how can I split it up so I have lots of little bazils? Could save me pots! LOL


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## anjela (Dec 2, 2009)

I buy herbs ready potted from my supermarket and put them into nice fancy ceramic pots on the windowsill, if you keep using them and watering them they will grow, my only problem is I eat them quicker than I can grow them!


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## craftsmaster (Jun 4, 2010)

Session dataHmmm. I normally buy a grown one since I haven't much time taking care of my herb garden. You''ll see some of my culinary herb in my kitchen like basil, mint, sage, chives, and parsly as I use them on my foods.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Hi, Craftsmaster. Welcome to Cheftalk.

You can keep those going without buying new ones all the time just by taking clippings, and starting them in potting soil. No more work than buying the plants already growing. The exception, of those you listed, is chives. But all you have to do is divide them at the root end.

I've even started new plants from those clam-shell packed herbs, which gives you an idea how tenacious of life they are.


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## craftsmaster (Jun 4, 2010)

When you initially buy the pot or container for your plants, be sure the container already has drain holes in it. The better containers will. If you decide to plant your herbs in unconventional containers -- say a teapot, for example -- then create several holes in the bottom to ensure proper drainage.

______________________

Carmel Santos
CEO of Herb Gardening Guide
The Australian Guide to Herb Gardening

Session data


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