# Improving my pancakes



## cookinrika (Sep 10, 2010)

Hi community,

I've come here seeking serious help with my Pancakes.

I love pancakes and have been trying to make them in the image of my ideal standards:

Uncle Greg (king of the crispy edge)
IHOP (soft, fluffy, immensely tender, but not too thick)
McDonalds (soft, tender, thin, but naturally sweet ... could do without syrup almost!)
Random downtown diners... the short order cooks effortlessly out-do me with their big, thin, and soft pancakes...
It has been a tough road. I've tried mostly mixes (Hungry Jack, Butterworth's, Aunt Jemima, and Bisquick) in both the "add water" and "traditional" varieties. Usually my pancakes come out of the pan with a stiff surface (not immediately soft and tender) on top and bottom. And most of all they're not tender! I've also tried some homemade recipes but they usually flop worse than box mixes ... they fail to brown or rise, taste dry, come out stiff, etc. types of catastrophic failures.

I use a 10"x16" Presto electric griddle.

I want to approach this in an organized fashion, so let me start by bringing up these key points I could use clarity on.

*Mixing *- All recipies stress "Do not over mix". However, I am not a professional, so what constitutes over mixing?? I get fustrated when I try to be gentle with the batter and mix as little as possible but I end up with dry lumps that end up in my cooked pancakes! I wish it were as simple as "mix until thoroughly blended and no lumps remain" but I keep reading that there should be lumps.... What sense does it make to have dry clumps (lumps) of unmixed flour in my batter? So what do I need to do? Mix really slowly? Mix very little and leave the lumps in the mixing bowl? So I'm always struggling with that.
*Butter or Oil* - This great debate... I've tried straight vegetable oil, Crisco no-stick Canola oil spray (blue can), margarine, normal butter, and clarified butter. But butter loves to smoke/burn at 375F if I don't throw something on it right away and honestly I don't think it's makes much of a taste difference... so I guess I'm wondering what do the pros (IHOP, etc.) use?
*Timing *- Sometimes there is a thought that I may be cooking all the moisture out of my pancakes... leaving their surfaces dry and stiff when I take them out of the pan. Could that possibly happen without actually burning the pancake? I don't want to eat undercooked pancakes.. I cook them until at least brown on the 1st side then I flip. The 2nd side should always cook for much less time right?
*Mix vs. Homemade*. I've read that a quality mix is just as good as homemade, and then I've read that mixes are junk. I can do homemade again but I'll have to buy powder, soda, flower, etc. and I don't want to do that without a reason to believe I'll actually succeed this time... without a new plan. And then there are 10,000,000 pancake recipies on the internet, and they have have decent reviews but differ. Any tried and true vetted recipies that produce IHOP or McDonalds tenderness without much fuss?
*What DO they really do? *I've always wondered, and have tried to research how IHOP makes their pancakes. I should go ask a server next time I'm there... but I've read they use a commercial Bisquick mix. How about McDonalds? Denny's? What do you make of that? Made me think about getting some generic mix from GFS...
So all in all... I'm not struggling with flavor here, I'm fighting texture. I need to learn the proper technique. I could use 1 homemade recipie to work with but I really don't want 7 different ones or an entire website full of them. I'd be chasing wild geese trying to pick one and I kind of don't have that type of time to waste making flopcakes 

Anyway, any time you can take to help me tame my pancakes to be soft and tender would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you for reading.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

I like beating the egg whites and then folding them into the batter.


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

For softness nothing beats buttermilk. You can substitute with yoghurt if you like, i don't know if it makes a real difference but i think it does in the flavor. The acid of the buttermilk or yoghurt is a tenderizing agent in the dough.

Don't bother with a mix, they save very little in terms of time (is it so hard to measure baking powder, salt, sugar?) and they use lots of ingredients that are processed and lots of additives for preserving. For instance, how do you get butter into a box of dry powder? You don't of course, so they have to use some kind of fat that can be made into powder form. It isn;t going to taste like butter you can be sure.

Sweetness comes from adding sugar to the batter. But if you add too much they will burn too easily. A little goes a long way in pancakes.

For crisp edges, i believe the butter on the pan helps that. Some like them more crispy and so use more butter. (Normally you would wipe the griddle with a paper towel with just a little butter on it.)

As for tough pancakes, that doesn't come from the timing, but from the beating. YOU DON'T BEAT PANCAKES. Just mix lightly till most of the stuff is amalgamated, lumps are no problem. Better lumps than overbeating. The reason, as i understand it, is that if you beat something with flour in it, you develop gluten, which is a protein that develops when you knead bread - you want bread to be able to hold up and rise considerably so you need an elastic dough that will stretch and not break, not a tender dough that will crack when it rises and then will collapse. Pancakes need a tender dough - so don't beat them.

For the temperature of the pan, look at the recipe below, the simple water test will tell you when it's right. If it's too low, you'll have to cook them so long they'll dry out. If too high, they;ll burn and be wet inside.

There are other recipes on this forum for pancakes, you can do the search on this site - a recent one had home made pancake mix in the title I believe and the posters are reliable.

But here is one i've used with good results, adapted from an old betty crocker cookbook.

This makes 16 four-inch pancakes

Mix together:

*1 egg*

*1 1/4 cup buttermilk (or plain yoghurt)*

In a separate bowl mix together with a whisk to remove lumps and combine well:

*1/2 tsp baking soda (bicarbonate of soda)*

*1 1/4 cups all purpose flour*

*1 tsp sugar (you can raise this to 2 or 3 if you like them sweeter)*

*1 tsp baking powder*

*1/2 tsp salt*

Melt

*2 tbsp butter*

Heat a heavy griddle or frying pan until when you drop a drop of water on it, it "dances" around. What i mean is that the water forms a round ball and doesn't splatter and become flat and bubbly, but remains in a ball form and bounces around the surface of the pan. Test it as it heats, and as soon as it does that, lower the heat to medium. Take a paper towel and with a little dab of butter on it wipe the pan (or for a crispier edge, put a tsp or so of butter in the pan just before adding the pancake batter.

Take the egg/buttermilk mixture and add to the dry ingredients, and then add the butter. Mix with a spoon or whisk by hand very rapidly and stop as soon as you've made it wet.

Ladle it onto the hot pan.

As soon as you begin to see bubbles form (just bumps on the top surface of the pancake) stick the spatula under it and peek - if the color is how you like it, flip it over.

Cook roughly the same amount of time, checking if the color is right.

If they're getting black before the bumps form on top, you have to lower the heat. If they;re not coloring when the bubbles form, you've made it too low, raise the heat and do the water test.

If you like them thicker, put less liquid in the batter next time. If you like them thinner put more.

I've never found beating the egg whites to be worth the extra trouble and extra bowl to wash. Lots of people swear by that. If you want to, you should add the yolk with the buttermilk, but beat the white and add that at the end and fold it in.

I've given detailed directions because you asked for them, but don't be misled into thinking this is going to be complicated, this is *EASY *. I;ve explained it step by step, but once you've done it once you'll be able to do it in your sleep!


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Hi there 

    There are a lot of different recipes you could use to make pancakes, and many of them are quite different from each other.  Later you may want to try various recipes to see which one you like the best.  But first, it sounds to me like you need to get the cooking method down pat.

   Siduri's advice above is all very good.  I would suggest switching to a good non-stick frying pan and setting the griddle aside for right now.  Pre-heat the pan.   You can do this a variety of ways, heating the pan up first and get the dancing water, or adding a little bit of oil to the pan and waiting until it shimmers.  

    I prefer my pancakes to get a nice crisp exterior and a tender middle.  My fat of choice for pancakes is vegetable oil.  Many other things will work...this is just my preference.  I usually get my pan hot and watch over my pancakes like a hawk.  In my experience I like how the oil takes the high heat of the pan better, it also gives me the edges how I like them.

    Box or recipe?  I like recipe...but you should be able to achieve a pancake that's cooked to your liking with a box as well.  For now, I would find yourself a very basic pancake recipe (like Betty Crocker's cookbook) and stick to this one simple recipe as you adapt your cooking methods.  This way, if you make a change to your cooking methods you will know that it was directly an effect of the method change, rather than guessing if it was a recipe change or a cooking method change.  Once your happy with the way you're cooking your pancakes branch out and try all the recipes you can!

     dan


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## cookinmt (Aug 3, 2010)

Great post, siduri!

I've spent the last 3-4 months trying to ween my significant other off of pre-made "mixes," especially biscuit and pancake mixes. She positively _loves _Bisquick! But no matter how many tricks I pull (short of dumping the box out and refilling it with a home mix), I can't seem to break her of the habit. Any suggestions for that?! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

A variation I really enjoy is a recipe I picked up from this German tourist, who accompanied us on a camping trip. He, in his early morning lamentations for home cooking, mentioned "German pancakes" and through his thick, barely-intelligible accent I learned they were nothing more than flour, butter, salt, milk, eggs, and soda water. Tinkering with the ratios the next morning, I put together a fairly thin, very bubbly batter that formed a crepe-like cake, with a crispy and buttery exterior and a tender middle. It was quite the success around the camp (especially rolled up around German sausages, _schweine in eine bettdecke?!_), and it has since made it's way into the specials rotation back at the restaurant.

Assuming the soda water is just doing the same thing the baking soda and baking powder would, I'm sure it could be created without it. I haven't ever gotten so many bubbles and so much resulting texture though!


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

CookinMT said:


> Great post, siduri!
> 
> I've spent the last 3-4 months trying to ween my significant other off of pre-made "mixes," especially biscuit and pancake mixes. She positively _loves _Bisquick! But no matter how many tricks I pull (short of dumping the box out and refilling it with a home mix), I can't seem to break her of the habit. Any suggestions for that?! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif
> 
> ...


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## cookinmt (Aug 3, 2010)

> Originally Posted by *siduri*
> 
> *I find it hard to believe the bubbles last through the mixing, but i should try it. *


Well, that keeps with the whole minimal mixing of pancake batter.. I whisk in the milk until the batter is just on thick side of things, then very briskly stir in the soda water. The batter should have a little head to it, like a beer batter.  It tends to peter out over time, but if you use it quick enough, it keeps it's "fizz."

No Bisquik in Rome? Perhaps the solution, then, would be to simply move her there!!


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## amazingrace (Jul 28, 2006)

Skimming over the various replies, I didn't see anyone mention that once the batter is mixed (minimally...yes, some lumps will remain), just leave it alone for 5 or so minutes. Ala Alton Brown: "Walk, away. That's right, just..just..walk away." Besides allowing the lumps to absorb some liquid, this also helps the ingredients to become better acquainted, so they play nice together. Adjust the liquid, if the batter is too thick. If you like thick, fluffy pancakes, you need to have thicker batter. For thinner ones, the batter needs to be thinner as well. Your griddle should be hot enough for a bead of water to dance around before it finally evaporates. Then grease the griddle with oil, butter, shortening, bacon fat...whatever, and then wipe the greas off. However, "crispy edges" do require an ample amount of grease. Flip the pancakes when the edges appear to be browning, small bubbles have popped at the surface, and the surface of the cake has a kind of sheen to it (there's a french word for this, but it escapes me right now). Turn them gently, and as close to the griddle as possible. Avoid lifting them to the sky and dropping them _*KERPLOP*_, as that will surely compact them, and defeat any fluffiness you might have hoped for. One turn is all you're allowed. Then leave them on the griddle only until the bottom side is golden when you lift the edge to peek.

Oh, another thing, with the mixing. Mix the oil and egg yolks together, mix the milk or buttermilk with the egg whites, then combine them and add them to the dry ingredients. I cannot explain the principle behind this, I just know it makes a difference in the finished product.


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## cookinrika (Sep 10, 2010)

siduri said:


> For softness nothing beats buttermilk. You can substitute with yoghurt if you like, i don't know if it makes a real difference but i think it does in the flavor. The acid of the buttermilk or yoghurt is a tenderizing agent in the dough.
> 
> Don't bother with a mix, they save very little in terms of time (is it so hard to measure baking powder, salt, sugar?) and they use lots of ingredients that are processed and lots of additives for preserving. For instance, how do you get butter into a box of dry powder? You don't of course, so they have to use some kind of fat that can be made into powder form. It isn;t going to taste like butter you can be sure.
> ....
> ...


Thank you for your tips and this recipe *siduri *!

I tried it and it worked out pretty darn well!

Mindful I did let the batter sit for at least 10 minutes in the fridge..

I will be trying again tonight with a little more milk for a thinner cake.

I'll let the batter sit for like 15 minutes minimum this time also.

What I need to work on getting that tender crust like my Ihop pancakes have... they're dry but tender. The ones I made from your recipe were relatively tender on the inside but I didn't get the outside like that. Hmmm.. I'm trying to get the entire pancake soft and moist like a yellow cake fresh out of the oven... if you get my idea. I think moisture is the key but I'm not sure how one can pull a pancake off the hot griddle and it be moist....

I need to find a video on Alton Brown doing pancakes. That would be awesome, he's pretty awesome people.

*Any more additional tips are still appreciated people! *

Thanks!!


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

Hi CookinRika,

your welcome.  That's what we like to do here, give each other tips. 

Letting the batter rest is good, but i never bother, just because we're usually all waiting for the pancakes without much patience, and if you don't overbeat it isn't so necessary.  One thing though, don't leave it too long, ten min is the max.  Because when you use an acid (buttermilk, yoghurt) and bicarbonate of soda, the bubbles come right away but then they die down. Other things seem to happen to the batter too, with time.  I sometimes leave the batter for someone in the family who sleeps late and they never come out very well two hours later. 

I haven't eaten in an IHOP for so long, i didn;t know what it was - somewhere you hop?  then I looked it up, international house of pancakes.  Last i ate there was in the 70s!  So i don;t know the texture you're looking for.  I imagine they use some "ingredients" that are not butter, eggs, flour, etc.  But for a dry texture on the outside, you can try a non-stick griddle.  Not sure. Also less butter in the batter.  Experiment till you get the texture you want.  Egg yolks tend to make the dough moister, while whites make it drier.  But what you're looking for is both, it seems.  Dry outside and moist inside.  Maybe you'll get help from others.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

In terms of tenderness, whether you use milk, half and half, buttermilk, or yogurt doesn't matter. The sour products will give you lighter cakes, buttermilk more so than yogurt. For that matter, you can put a little vinegar or lemon juice in regular milk and leave it on the counter for half an hour to clabber -- and that will work just as well.

The amount of milk you use won't make much of a difference, either. Use an equal volume of sweet milk to flour, or about 1-1/4 of buttermilk (or other sour) to sour milk to flour, or 1-1/2 yogurt to flour and you'll be fine.

If you overbeat your batter, you'll over develop the glutens -- a kind of protein found in wheat -- in the flour and make the pancakes tough and chewy. You've heard about overbeating a lot and seem a little mixed up on how best to deal with it, we'll get to it.

There are three ways to deal with the gluten problem. You should try all of them.

1. Use softer flour -- "soft" means it less glutens. Three very easy ways to do that (assuming you don't live in the American South): A) Mix regular, AP flour with cake flour 50/50 to make your own soft flour. B) Make every cup of flour with 3 tbs cornstarch in it. C) Just use Bisquick instead of AP flour and baking powder.

2. Sift your dry ingredients.

3. Don't overmix.

Here's how: 

Combine your dry ingredients and put them in the bottom of the bowl.
Cover them with them buttermilk, and add the melted butter.
Use a large enough spoon or whisk to combine them thoroughly. Stir or beat until combined.
(Here's the good part) Lift some of the batter from the bowl with your spoon and allow it to drizzle back on to the top of the batter there. It will form a line. Try to write your four, five or six letter childhood name with it, pancakes work much better if you approach them as a child would. My name was "Ricky", my kids were "Maxo" and "Lily". For the sake of learning let's pretend yours was... oh, I don't know... "Rika."
If the "V" is still clearly present when you finish the last "a," the batter is too stiff and needs more stirring. Stir some more and try again. You want to catch it so the "R" is just about faded when you finish. If it's already faded, you've already gone a bit too far -- quit. You'll get the hang of it in no time.
Another way to mix pancakes is to put the dries and wets into a big jar or pitcher with a tight lid and shake them. 30 vigorous shakes will be just right.

To make crepes -- make a thinner batter (more milk), and beat until better combined. You want some toughness to hold them together.

Here's an easy, white-flour recipe:

*KIDS' (CAN DO IT) 1,1,1 PANCAKES*

_Yield: Breakfast for two hungry kids, plus one pancake for Daddy, or two (whom do you think you're kidding) adults._

_Note: Recipe may be scaled by simple multiplication_

_Note: The quantities are so simple an 7 year old won't have much trouble remembering them. But at 70 it could be a problem._

_Ingredients:_

1 cup of flour
1 tbs sugar
1 tsp double acting baking soda
1 pinch baking powder
1 pinch salt
1 tbs butter
1 cup milk (or 1-1/4 - 1-12 cup buttermilk)
Butter and syrup for service
_Technique:_

Grease a cold griddle with a little oil. Heat the griddle to medium. You don't want a hot griddle, it will bake the cakes unevely and make them spot, instead of coming out GBD (_golden, brown and delicious!_). If the oil smokes or smells burnt, your griddle is TOO HOT! Let it cool down and start over. On the other hand, you want to heat the griddle long enough so that it is evenly heated. Don't use too much flame, and you'll be just fine.

Meanwhile, combine all of the dry ingredients. For very light pancakes, sift them as you combine. Put them in a mixing bowl.

Melt the butter -- use the microwave if you have one. Add the buttermilk and melted butter on top of the dry ingredients.

Put the butter and syrup for service in separate containers and warm them in the microwave, so they'll be ready when you are.

Mix the wets with the dries as already described.

Put a tiny bit of butter or oil in the middle of the griddle, spread it around the entire griddle evenly, and use a spoon or scoop to pour enough batter for one cake. It's purpose is to equilibriate the griddle temperature, and suck off any excess heat. Cook the "tester," and give it to the dog.

If you like crispy edges on your cakes, you'll need to add a little more butter or oil. If you're using butter, pour the cakes as soon as it melts and starts getting fragrant. You don't want it to burn.

Don't lift the cakes to check their progress.

Turn the cakes when (a) they are brown at the bottom edge and when the bubbles which come to the surface, break and stay open 2/3 of the way from the edge to the center. If they look underdone when you go to turn them, let them cook a little more. Any pancake you lift to check will not brown as nicely or to the same color as one you don't, so don't do it if you don't have to; and if you do -- or just start turning too early -- one cake, only.

However long the first side took to bake, the second side will take need about one third the time. If you like, you can check the second side by lifting. Bake the rest of the cakes, plating and serving as they come off the griddle. Let's not keep Mommy waiting.

Dad Oops I meant,

BDL

_PS. The above is original to me. You may share it only on condition that you attribute it to me, Boar_D_Laze. _


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## katya (Sep 6, 2010)

I tend to get too aggressive mixing them, leaning to beating. Need to tone it down, could be hte problem with my toughcakes!


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

It's not too difficult.

Writing your name is a very sensitive test -- on the nose for ordinary, white-flour pancakes. 

Just a few quick strokes until things are mixed and test.  Then a few quick strokes and test again.  A few more, and you'll nail it.  If the batter doesn't test right, but the lumps are small and almost gone... stop! 

BDL


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## cookinrika (Sep 10, 2010)

boar_d_laze said:


> It's not too difficult.
> 
> Writing your name is a very sensitive test -- on the nose for ordinary, white-flour pancakes.
> 
> ...


I haven't tried your "name writing" method but I'm pretty sure a "few quick strokes" doesn't get my batters satisfactory-ly mixed. That gets things distributed but not well-mixed....

We'll see tho. There needs to be a YouTube video on this. That would help a lot... I could do one


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Now I'm getting frustrated too. Maybe some enumeration and emphases will help.


> Just a few quick strokes until things are mixed _AND TEST_.
> Then a few quick strokes _*AND TEST AGAIN*_.
> _*[THEN] *__*A FEW MORE*_ _and you'll nail it_..


That's just the tiniest bit different then what you seem to believe I said. Furthermore, I added one more test in case writing your name didn't work:


> _[When] the lumps are small and almost gone... stop!_


These tests have been proven to work perfectly by multiple generations of pre-schoolers. Even adults can do them.

But maybe You-Tube is the answer.

BDL


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

CookinRika said:


> ... That gets things distributed but not well-mixed.......


I think that is precisely the point BDL is attempting to make, you do NOT want pancake batter "well-mixed"!


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## cookinrika (Sep 10, 2010)

0926001749.3g2 (154.46 KB)

This is a video of I am not able to write much of anything with my batter. It's relatively thick/clumpy...

Pretty sure I have the write amounts of all the ingredients. Has always been like this.


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

Siduri & BDL - great advice.

But I do have a question here - my mother always used to let the pancake mix rest for at least an hour at room temp or sometimes overnight in the fridge. Results were light and lovely.

Does nobody else ( I saw a couple of suggestions for 5 or 10 mins) allow the mix to rise a long time?

Edit. P.S. Rika, I know you want to improve your pancakes and good on ya /img/vbsmilies/smilies/thumb.gif That's why you have posted the question. The advice you will get here is from many people with a great depth of knowledge, so give it a try their way and see what happens.

P.P.S. I would l enjoy to go to breakfast at many of the members' places here (or lunch or dinner for that matter) I reckon that, firstly, it would be great company, and also firstly, the food would be good.


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

Cookin Rika, I can't view your video, but if it's too thick, then the amount of liquid is wrong, just use more.  You can't rely only on measurements, you have to be a little flexible to account for differences in flours, etc.  So try adding a little more liquid right at the beginning, maybe 1/8 of a cup for every cup called for.  if it's really thick (like if you lift it with a spoon it you can get a pile of batter, then add more like 1/4 cup more per cup of liquid the recipe calls for.   That would account for not being able to mix it.  

DC I wonder why your mother would let the batter rest so long.  If i save today's leftover pancake batter in the fridge for tomorrow they come out lousy.  Did she include a little yeast in the batter, perhaps?  My batter sort of separates, with some liquid floating on top, and a kind of dark color.  The pancakes came out flat.  I tried adding baking powder again the next day but it was still not good.  Some recipes do use yeast.


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## cookingallday (Dec 11, 2011)

[h3]Below you will find a recipe which contradictes everything posted here. It states to blend the batter which would totally produce more protein and gluten. What says you all to that? I attempted to use the recipe here and I got dry, but soft pancakes. So I decided to do what Bisquick does and put fat into the flour. I hand mixed butter and some oil into the flour and then added wet ingredients. Worked much better.[/h3]
So bottom line here is I don't think anything I read here works well for everyone or maybe even anyone. Does anyone else have ideas? I think these recipes offered up need FAT in them and there is none in these. Bisquick must be mostly fat/lard/ something nasty because it tastes good and works well all the time.........so thinking lard works best although not good for you.....????

Totally confused. But need a good recipe since I make pancakes for my kids every morning.............../img/vbsmilies/smilies/confused.gif
[h3]*Chocolate Pancakes with Orange Sauce (English)*[/h3]
*Ingredients for pancakes: 1. 5 oz dark cooking chocolate, half a pint milk, 2 eggs, 4oz plain flour sieved, 2 tablespoons cocoa powder.*

*Make the pancakes by gently heating the chocolate in the milk until melted. Pour the liquid into a blender or food processor, add the remaining batter ingredients then process until smooth; or the batter may be made in a bowl with a whisk but beat hard to ensure a light mixture. *

*Heat the pan with a little oil. Pour in just enough batter to cover the base thinly, pouring off any excess. Cook the pancake until nicely browned then flip over and cook the other side. Repeat the process to make 8-10.*

*Orange sauce. 100g thin cut or rindless orange marmalade, zest and juice of 1 orange, 2 tbsp Grand Marnier, or other orange liqueur. To make the sauce, combine all the ingredients in a small pan and heat gently. *

*Pour over the pancakes and serve with Vanilla icecream*


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## benway (May 24, 2009)

The reason the diner pancakes spank yours is most likely the equipment.  A monkey can pump out top notch pancakes on an inch-thick commercial flattop.  If you're really into pancakes maybe figure out a way to emulate that surface in your home--a good electric griddle perhaps.


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