# Chicken stock: 7 questions



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Last night I made chicken stock: 

In a big pot,
• 1 roasted chicken carcass + neck + few odd bones
• 1 leak cut in two lengthwise, then cut in big pieces
• 2 celery ribs cut in two lengthwise, then cut in big pieces - no leaves (taste bitter)
• 3 large carrots cut in two lengthwise
• 1 quartered onion
• 5 peppercorns
• 1 sprig thyme
• Dozen parsley stems
• Just a little salt
Then I poured water to cover everything, simmered for 3 hours, strained, put in fridge. 

It tastes ok, not very chickeny, I think I may have too much veggies? Or too much water. Or maybe it's the normal taste, not sure! It kinda tastes like a vegetable soup, but with less flavor (then again there's barely any salt). 

Questions!

1) How long can I keep it in the fridge before use/freeze?
2) What can I use it for? I usually use it for risotto or paella, but not planning on making either. I'll use it for a sauce tonight, but I have liters of it. Maybe like 4 liters or so. 
4) I covered the pot to bring it to a boil, then reduced and uncover for simmering. Is that the right way? Are you supposed to leave it covered the whole time?
5) I never skimmed it: there was nothing to skim! It was pretty much clear. Is that normal?
6) At the bottom of the chicken's roasting pan were one thick layer of gelatinous golden solidified jus, topped with a thin layer of white fat. Were any of those supposed to go in the stock? I threw them both away - big mistake?
7) Can I (should I) put it back on the burner and let it reduce to concentrate the flavor? Can't see myself using and/or freezing 4 liters of stock. 

Thanks!!


----------



## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Stock doesn't have a strong flavor. 

After straining and defatting, you may want to reduce it some to intensify the flavors and many uses involve reduction anyway so you're saving some time and hassle later on. 

This reduction is one reason why you don't salt stock as it then gets too salty when reduced.


----------



## dillbert (Jul 2, 2008)

per phatch's note, stock should not taste "as strong as chicken soup" for example. it is more delicate.

your basic ingredients sound fine - it's always adjustable up and down. I would have done more onion, for example, in slices - to expose the flesh.

>>gelatinous golden solidified jus, topped with a thin layer of white fat. Were any of those supposed to go in the stock?
oops... yes the gelatin like stuff - that what it is - is a good thing to add; the fat you can skip. the gelatin is water soluble but congeals when it cools.

my experience has been when starting with a cooked carcass, there's less scummy stuff - if I use raw bits and pieces from cutting up a chicken, more scum & foam (proteins, as I understand, go bubbly . . ) of course there's also more fat to skim as it's not been "pre-rendered" by a roasting.

I never cover my stock - dunno if that's "right" - I just don't. it also starts the reducing bit. reducing is a good idea.

if you know you're not going to use the full quantity, cool & freeze it right away. I use plastic zip top bags with about 300ml each. they lie flat, stack like cards.


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Great, thanks for the feedback guys!! I think I'll reduce it a bit tonight then cool and freeze what I'm not using tonight.


----------



## bluedogz (Oct 11, 2006)

I do the same, but I went to the dollar store and bought a set of 100ml. plastic containers, about 20 of them. So when a make a batch of stock I cool it in an ice bath, fill all the little containers, then freeze the rest in 1 l. containers. They all stack in the freezer neatly.


----------



## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

The reason your stock doesn't have much flavor is because you didn't use any meat, skin, combs, feet, or anything else that would add said flavor. You need more than a carcass.

I like to use a carcass, a whole chicken, scraps (like wingtips, and necks), and feet and combs -- which make a wonderful if not entirely necessary contribution. Start by putting last night's carcass in a very hot oven for about half hour to get some brown on the bone. Remove it from the oven and put it in a pot with water, a few pepper corns, a whole chicken, and scraps.

Then, the basic sequence is:
1. Bring the water to a simmer (about 200F at sea level);
2. Allow the chicken to form scum, and skim all scum off (at least two skimmings over a 5 minute period, better 3 over 10 minutes);
3. Add the aromatics and herbs;
4. Remove the whole chicken as soon as it's (barely) poached (35 - 45 minutes -- ish). Pick the meat off; discard the skin; reserve the meat for a worthy purpose such as pot pie, salad, enchiladas, etc.; and return the second carcass to the pot. Give it five minutes and skim again if necessary.
5. Add any other vegetables to the pot (such as parsnips);
6. Simmer at least 2 more hours, preferably 4;
7. Sieve, if not clear. If possible use a fine sieve to prevent the passage of any solids, and press the vegetables;
8 (option 1). Defat with a spoon and paper towel; and if further clarification is desired, use an egg-white raft; or 
8. (option 2). Cool and defat. Then, if a very, very clear stock is desired, as for aspic or consomme, reheat and purify with an egg-white raft. The less fat in the stock, the better the raft will work.

This (these?) technique(s) will give you a flavorful stock. There is no reason a stock, especially a roasted (aka _brun_) stock should not be as flavorful as chicken soup -- minus the salt. In fact, the addition of salt and white pepper should be enough to create a fully developed and delicious soup.

Once defatted, you may reduce the stock to any of several levels of concentration -- including a full-on _glace_. Ultra-reduced stock is a very handy commodity to have around.

BDL


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Thank you so much for all those details BDL!

And if I go for a "Glace", what kind of consistency are we talking about? And how long can I keep it in the fridge, or sould I freeze it? Thanks!


----------



## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

BDL covered most of the bases. But a couple of additional points:

1. There is no reason to cover the stock as it's cooking, and most authorities say to leave the pot uncovered.

2. Watch your water content. After putting the chicken and bones in the pot, add _cold _water to come only about 3/4 up the solids.

3. Roasted chicken and bones produces what's known as a dark stock, which is ideal for soups and some sauces. Most sauces, however, particularly those where a white appearance is important, are best made from white stock.

To answer your other question, fresh stock can be kept for up to three days in the fridge. If you're keeping it longer than that, either freeze or can it.

For freezing, reheat the stock to a simmer, then cool it quickly, package, and freeze. One way of fast cooling is to fill a zipper bag with ice and drop it into the stock. Repeat as needed.

Canning requires a pressure canner. 20 minutes for pints, 25 minutes for quarts, at 10 lbs pressure at sea level.


----------



## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

That gelatinous layer is exactly the stuff you are trying to extract from the bones for your stock. There's a lot of flavor in it, next time don't throw it out.

mjb.


----------



## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

1. It's very difficult to tell what stock tastes like because of the absence of salt. Take 1/3 cup or so, medium-hot, and dissolve a pinch of salt in it, then taste.

2. I agree with BDL and KY on flavor in general terms. I think a good rule of thumb is roughly half as much veg as chicken, but bearing in mind that the least flavorful part of the chicken is the bones. The water should barely cover the material in the pot; if it reduces too much, you're cooking it too fast, but in any case you should then add cold water back to the original level.

3. Don't cover the stock. There's no reason to do so, and there is a small but real risk of the stock going "off," i.e. breeding a wild bacterial culture, if it is allowed to cook covered. Under no circumstances cool the stock covered: then you really are asking for a culture.

4. If you wish to keep fresh stock more than 3 days without freezing, bring it to a rapid boil, cook 1 minute at a boil, cool, and refrigerate again.

5. If stock seems weak, reduce it until it isn't.

6. You won't get a proper glace from this stock -- not enough gelatin. But if you should decide to try it some time, having first made sure that you have used lots of gelatinous pieces (feet and combs are excellent), simply make good brown chicken stock (see BDL's explanation). Cool, chill, and peel off floating fat. Return to a boil and skim anything that wants to float. Now boil hard until reduced about 50%. Check the consistency: if it seems rather thick, like full cream, decant it into a saucepan (ideally nonstick) that it will fill about 2/3 full (if it's still thin, reduce until as thick as cream). Return to a strong simmer, not a boil, and reduce a further 50%. Keep an eye on it: as it thickens, it can scorch. Once it seems very thick, like warm maple syrup, pour it into a heatproof rubber bowl, e.g. Tupperware, being sure to scrape all the good stuff out of the pot, as it will want to stick. Cool uncovered on the counter, then refrigerate UNCOVERED until very cold -- overnight is best. Now twist the container and the stuff should fall out in a container-shaped block. It should be the consistency of hard rubber. With a heavy knife, cut it into rough cubes about 1/2" on a side, like small ice cubes. Return to the container, and place UNCOVERED in the fridge. If your fridge has odor issues, put a new thing of baking soda right next to the container. In about 3-4 days, check: the cubes should be like rocks, all the remaining trace moisture having dissolved. These cubes are now pure glace. They dissolve in hot liquid. Add one cube every time you make a meat sauce of any kind.

My experience is that chicken does not produce a great glace, although it can be a good component in a stock that does make a great glace.

For a really excellent explanation, see Joseph Peterson, _Sauces_. His discussion of stock-making is also superb, and will answer all your questions and more.


----------



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

BDL
Hit most of the important points. What you threw away was the heart of your stock. Do not cover. I believe you added to much water. Freeze after 3 days, when you thaw bring to a reboil. The stock can be used in almost all applications except when a beef or fish stock is called for.


----------



## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Along with the great information provided above, I've noticed that when I add carrots into the stock to early or have too large (or too many) carrots in the stock it has an overpowering vegetable stock flavor.

dan


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Thank you so much to all of you for so many details. I'll bookmark this thread and may just buy the book you're recommending, Chris. 

I've reduced the stock by about half yesterday, and the flavor came out. I think I'll make risotto tonight!


----------



## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

Actually it is _James _Peterson.

mjb.


----------



## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Actually, French Fries, I don't recommend James Petterson's _Sauces _for the typical home cook. It's not the best choice.

True, it could be subtitled "everything you ever wanted to know about sauces and a lot more". But it's encyclopedic (612 pages), geared to the professional kitchen (for instance, your brown chicken stock made a couple of liters, his starts with 12 pounds of bones and chicken parts, and is made in a 25-quart stockpot), and is very expensive (Retail cost of the new 3rd edition is 50 bucks).

I think, as you found with your stock questions, that your best approach is to continue experimenting, and posting here when you run into questions or problems.


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Well thank you for that opinion. I love doing both experimenting and reading about the science of food and understanding WHY I (or "we" or "they") do what I do. I've come to a point where I just can't stand reading something like "never salt your yolks before you beat them" (I totally just made that up) unless there's a good explanation for it (whether that explanation is taken from science or from simple experimentation). So if the book is thicker because it explains the how and the why and the science behind it, I might be actually more attracted to it. 

But I guess I'll try to go through a few pages in a bookstore before I jump on it.


----------



## elchivito (Jan 25, 2009)

I am curious if anyone else has ever used a pressure cooker for stock making. I often use one with both beef and poultry stock. I find that after roasting and the addition of the usual vegetable suspects, the pressure cooker really extracts all the gelatinous material from the bones, and saps all the flavor out of the vegetables. I consistently get a thicker and richer stock this way. I know it's heresy, and don't really care.:lips:


----------



## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

I just read something about this recently. I've never used a pressure cooker myself -- I don't own one at the moment -- so maybe those who are experts can comment.

What I've read is that the cooker brings the water to very high temperature without actually roiling, i.e. without the "rolling" effect that makes the liquid move around. As a result, you can extract flavor rapidly and efficiently without clouding the stock with fat and free proteins. The result is supposed to be a remarkably clear stock that is amazingly gelatinous. The bones, once strained and allowed to dry a bit, are apparently so brittle you can tear them to bits with one hand, because everything that held them together has gone into the stock -- thus all the gelatin.

To do this, you have to set the pressure such that you get high heat and no roiling, and I haven't the faintest how you'd do this, not being a pressure cooker expert.

Any comments and suggestions from the experts?


----------



## elchivito (Jan 25, 2009)

When I use a pressure cooker my stock rarely needs clarifying beyond pouring it thru a cheescloth lined china cap. The interesting thing about it is that once chilled, the fat comes to the top of course but the rest completely jells, yet the volume of liquid isn't drastically reduced. In order to reach that level of concentration on the stovetop I've got to simmer it all day, and the volume of finished product goes way down. This tells me that lots more good stuff is being extracted by the pressure. What you've read about the condition of the bones after pressure cooking is true. What's left of them chewable and virtually tasteless.


----------



## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Most pressure cooker cookbooks have stock recipes. It's also fairly quick. 

Similarly, there are stock recipes for the slow cooker which is also a convenient way to make stock without agitation and good low temp control.


----------



## rjx (Oct 2, 2006)

IMO your first priority should be to establish the stock. Simmer, and when the stock has taken shape, add your aromatics. It's a personal preference, but if you add the aromatics towards the half way point, or 2/3, you can be better assured the aromatics won't over-power the over-all flavor of the stock. You can add or remove the aromatics at any point during the simmer. The purpose of the aromatics is to enhance and support the flavors of the chicken stock.


----------



## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

RJX,

Not to argue, but only to inform: The main purpose of holding back on the aromatics is to prevent them from absorbing the scum or other impurities the protein components may produce. To prevent aromatics from taking over, the correct method is to use them in the correct amounts. The aromatics, as well as everything else in the stock (potato peelings, herbs, e.g.), should surrender their all and be rendered tasteless in the process. Whatever goes into stock is either used completely or used poorly.

BDL


----------



## bbay (Nov 22, 2007)

@ French Fries
If the _Sauces_ cookbook by James Peterson seems too daunting, try his _Splendid Soups_ cookbook. Same writing style, but might be more useful for you. Same stock recipes.
Here's an amazon link: SPLENDID SOUPS
I used the cheftalk "jump to amazon" in the link.

My $0.02: 
I put the aromatics in the bottom of the pot so that the chicken weighs them down. I don't like them floating at the top where the scum and oil accumulates. Might not be worth mentioning, just a personal preference.
Also, I add some white wine towards the end, along with the peppercorns.


----------



## blueicus (Mar 16, 2005)

Curious about everybody's opinions regarding the use of celery leaves in stock. The entremet at a place I staged at last week asked that I not use the leaves due to its adding bitterness (also followed by the OP) and to peel the carrots and onions. On the other hand, when I make stock at home or at the hotel I do use the leaves, leave the carrots unpeeled (though with tops cut off and cleaned), and add a bit of onion skin (sans root ends) for colour. What do you do?


----------



## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

If I'm making:

A. White stock, I don't use carrots at all, just onion (including the onion paper), parsley, parsnips and celery (including the leaves). Carrots bring color to the stock, that's why they and anything else which does the same is excluded.

B. Regular stock, I use pretty much everything within reason.

C. Roast (aka _brun_) stock, I use absolutely everything up to and including potato peelings (and sometimes the heterodoxy of a little tomato or tomato paste). Often (but not always) I'll roast the aromatics in a hot oven for a while to develop color and sweetness. I've said enough already in this thread about how I make it, other than to add if I've got a roast chicken on the agenda I start saving trimmings and peelings in anticipation of the follow up stock.

More often than not, when I do make stock it's roast stock; and then save a fair proportion as glace to be used for sauce making. A real classic sauce purist would use mostly white and regular, but I think the days when presentation was that much more important than flavor are gone. At least we can hope so.

BDL (or whatever my name is)


----------



## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

I've heard that about celery leaves, too. But I always use them, and have never noticed any bitterness. 

Like BDL, I believe in stocks that have flavor. Can't remember the last time I made a white stock.


----------



## blueicus (Mar 16, 2005)

I think there are times when you want the subtle flavours in a white stock, though I guess it's there to generally allow students to make blanquette de veau.


----------



## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

A trick I like very much, which I got from Jacques Pepin. Have a big tupperware standing near your board when you cut. Everything that could go into stock that you trim from your veggies, throw it in there. And that's almost anything. I avoid peppers of all kinds, because I do think they make bitter stock. But tomato peelings and squeezings, yes, and of course onion ends, carrot peelings, you name it. I am a little wary of potato, but I'll use a bit. Keep the container in the fridge until it is packed full, then freeze it solid. When you go to make a big batch of stock, roast your bones and stuff, heave in one or two containers of bits (depending on meat quantity), roast until the veg are browned, and go from there. Works great, and you feel like you're really being thrifty.


----------



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

I received a coupon for one of those boxed chicken stocks and tried it. 
I might say it was not bad. Not overly sweet or salty, perfect colour. You could alter or adjust it to your taste by adding a bouquet garni for a while and simmer. But again time and effort wise it proved good and I will use it again. 
Now I am ging to try the beef flavour. The stuff taste totaly different from that canned broth as I opened one of them to compare it ,and it does not have that metalic taste.


----------



## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

I've never used potato peelings in stock. What does that add?

When making beef stock I add a rind of parmesan, which I collect from the ends of my cheese and freeze just for this purpose.


----------



## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Body to the consistency. Bottom and a bit of earthiness to the flavor. But they only add a little, or at least should only add a little. Potato peelings are easy to overuse and can cloud the stock. Good stock runs anywhere from clear to extremely clear.

BDL


----------



## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

To my palate, the cheese flavor is much too strong. I use these rinds when making things like minestre, ribollita, pasta e fagioli, etc. -- hearty Italian soups, which I often serve with more parmesan to grate on top. But for ordinary stock, I think the flavor is too distinctive and overpowering.

To get that umami thing Parmesan has, though, one trick is to use kombu kelp. The thing is that you can't cook it very hot or it gets slimy and bitter. So what you do is to soak it in a few cups of water overnight. Add the water (and not the kelp) to that used for making the stock, and finally drop the kelp on top. Bring up to a simmer in the usual way, and when it starts to produce significant scum, remove the kelp in a single piece as you skim.

Of course, if you're making brown beef stock, this is largely pointless, because the brown stuff on the beef will give you way more umami than kelp will. But it's a great trick if you want a lot of umami in a white stock. 

I've also seen Morimoto Masaharu do the reverse: make dashi using Parmesan instead of kelp, which I thought was rather clever.


----------



## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Those are the only kinds of soup I use beef stock for anyway, so the parmesan is necessary.


----------



## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Kouki,

At some point though we get back to the argument of what is and isn't stock. The addition of a cheese rind pushes the envelope. Just for the sake of "there have to be some limits," I think "if you can't make mother sauces from it, it's not true stock."

Of course it may just be the stick up my [...] talking,
BDL


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Again, thanks so much for all your amazing feedback. Since I started this thread, I roasted another chicken and made another brown stock. This time I roasted the carcass and veggies, put less water, but I didn't add meat, just the leftover meat and skin around the carcass. Also I let it simmer for 6 hours this time. Ice bath, fridge, and defat the next day. 

I've already used it for a steak sauce yesterday (Maybe not the best idea to use Chicken stock for a steak sauce, but... well I'm still experimenting - how's that for an excuse?). Tonight I'm making Chicken Marsala and will use some more of my stock. 

One thing though, despite 6 hours simmering, it's definitely not gelatinous and still quite watery. I heard that "stock should not be watery, it should have good mouthfeel". My stock has the mouthfeel of water. I reduced it a lot for the sauce, and I could see after we ate that some of the leftover sauce in the pan was a little gelatinous. 

What does the onion peel add?

Maybe I should try adding them to the stock. I just tasted my raw celery in different parts, and noticed the bottom of the rib (white stuff) was kinda sweet, but the higher up I tasted on the rib, the more bitter it tasted. The leaves tasted very bitter, so I didn't add them. Maybe if you add them they don't actually give that bitter taste to the stock? Then again, I am very sensitive to bitterness. 

I love the recycling idea, but I would be worried about the onions: don't they turn bitter? (again with the bitterness). I usually try to use onions right after cutting them, or they become bitter. When doing mise-en-place, I always cut my onions/shallots last. 

I heard you can squeeze out the bitter juices from onion by trapping them in a towel and squeezing - never tried it though.


----------



## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

Did you chill it very cold at any point? I'm wondering whether it was at all gelatinous cold -- it can be quite difficult to tell when it's hot. If you're still getting no gelatin, and you want that mouthfeel, you may need to add gelatinous pieces to the mix: feet, combs, etc. I usually find that just the bones of chicken are sufficient, but if you're not having any luck.... With feet, turn them over an open flame until they char slightly on the outside, let cool enough to handle, and then peel off the outer skin -- rather like the way you do with chilies.
A little flavor, not much, but why waste it?
The bitterness in onions is largely sulfuric acid, which arises when some essential oils in the onion cells mix -- this is why you cry when you cut onions. Flush the sliced or chopped onion in plenty of cold water, shake dry, and you're good to go.

Then again, I'm apparently somewhat less sensitive to bitterness.


----------



## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

French Fries, I'd say you didn't use enough chicken. One little chicken carcass will make a very small amount of stock. My favorite method is to use a whole chicken, and a packet of chicken wings. Put all the chicken in to the water and skim skim skim until you can't skim anymore. The add the aromatic vegetables and continue to cook below the boiling point. When the chicken is cooked remove it and take all the meat off for eating! Return the carcass to the stock OR roast it a bit and return to the stock to continue simmering. This is the method that works for me, of course I consider this broth but it works.


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Great, thanks guys. 

Chris, the stock was not gelatinous even after 2 days in the fridge. 

I think I will follow your advice, BDL's advice and Koukouvagia's advice to use more chicken with meat on it, maybe also feet & combs if I can find them in my store. 

BDL, you say I can use that poached meat for enchiladas, salads or pot pie. I never make pot pie (not really attracted to it), never make enchiladas, but could try a salad... what kind of salad?

What about others, do you also poach the meaty beats or do you roast them along with the carcass for more browning?

I think I have more experimenting to do. Roasted chicken sunday again? :lol:


----------



## rjx (Oct 2, 2006)

I think I was thinking of bouquets and sachets.


----------



## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

I find poached chicken to be very versatile, but a little boring on its own. All I can say about enchiladas is "start;" and about pot pie, "WTF?!" 

Poached chicken is good as an element in any number of composed salads -- except Caesar. Chinese chicken salad; regular chicken salad; a green salad with chicken and green goddess; "Southwest Chicken Salad" with black beans, corn, lettuce, cheese, chicken, tortilla chips, ranch dressing, barbecue sauce and anything else you can think of; etc. 

I realize I'm he who is not among "others," but I can't resist. Don't roast the breast then throw it in the pot. Chicken breast dries out so easily. One cooking is enough, with the exception that a light smoking does very interesting things as a threshold step in a multi-part cooking process. But, smoke first and whatever-else after.

Roast a couple.

BDL


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Excellent. Thanks again. Great idea on the uses for the chicken. You know, I'm always spending hours making dinner, but we never have anything ready for lunch. Seems like that's going to change soon! :lips:

Just came up with another idea in fact. Make some crêpes, make some Mornay sauce, put some of the pulled poached chicken in the Mornay and stuff the crêpes. Maybe add a few sautéed mushrooms, shallots.... 

So I know I sound like a broken record by now but... just to make sure:

Roast bones. 
Don't roast meaty parts. 
What about wings? Do I roast the end parts but not the meaty parts?
What about feet and combs? Roasted or not?
What about the neck? Roasted or not?
If I buy a back, roast it or not?


----------



## dillbert (Jul 2, 2008)

FF -

okay - first hand tangential experience offered:

I take a whole chicken, put it in a pot, put in water, some aromatic schufft, cook.
pull out chicken, cut off meat, eat. put remaining non-eaten chicken back in pot.

make stuff of what's left.

you'll notice the total absence of "quantities" in the above.

typically both wings, one leg / thigh comes off (feeds me) and a chunk of breast (feeds the wife.) the rest cools and goes in the fridge.

when I pull that pot out of the fridge, there's a layer of fat on top, and the _entire_ remaining volume is a congealed mass of gelatinous goop - top to bottom of pot. 
apply a little heat and it turns totally liquid. 

regards the lack of congealed goop:

my first thought is the roasting bit is extracting collagen which is not being recaptured into the stock pot. certainly "more water" will dilute the situation, but you'll need 2-3 gallons of water per chicken to see that effect,

next thought is: roasting poultry carcass/bones is of questionable value.
(standby for heavy arguments)

next: onion skins add color; not much more

my suggestion for a learning experience is to boil/braise a whole chicken and see what the cooled water produces. omit all roasting/baking.


----------



## bitrex (Jan 31, 2010)

Sorry for the bump, but I'm curious what the purpose of the scum-skimming step is. It doesn't look tasty, but everything gets strained at the end anyway, so I don't understand the rationale.

Thanks for any insight.


----------



## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

It the scum is allowed to cook, it flavors the soup making it bitter, foul-smelling and obnoxious. Otherwise... 

BDL


----------



## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

All great advice. I would use a lot more necks in there, not so much carrot, and save all those lovely drippings in the pan from the roast to go into it, including the fat. You can peel that lid off the chilled stock.

I've even added the Colonel's leftover bones to a chook stock at times with other raw/roasted bones and meat (don't mention health and safety ) and it actually added heaps of flavour. Poisoned no-one hehe. It was an experiment that worked, for me. (Don't try it if you think its not safe). We had a bucket of the Colonel's chicken and I was making stock at the same time, and I hate to see anything go to waste. In they went.


----------



## grumio (Apr 16, 2006)

A while ago I got my sister to start making stock & saving bones & scraps & such in the freezer.

One night after some Italian food, my teenage niece (also a fine cook) had table clearing duty, & from the kitchen -

-Mom, there's some polenta left, what should I do with it?
-How much?
-About a quarter-cup.
-Oh, that's not enough to do anything with.
-What do you want me to do with it?
-Well... just throw it away.
-You sure?
-_Yes _I'm sure - just toss it!
-You don't want to save it for... _polenta stock_?

:lol: What a clever girl. And unfortunately it was too late to send her to bed without her supper...


----------



## homemadecook (Jan 27, 2010)

you can use stock in various meals, there are recipes that instead of water, you can use the stock. It doesnt have a strong flavor, but it enhance the flavors that are alreday there


----------



## voodoochyl (Feb 1, 2010)

I like to use stock for making rice. It is nice and subtle, but adds more flavor than water and salt. I heard a good trick is to put your stock into ice cube trays and freeze it. I wonder about that "freezer" taste, though.


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Although I've never done it myself, I've read the trick is to leave the trays just long enough for the cubes to be frozen, then take the ice cubes out of the tray and put in a zip lock bag. Should take care of the freezer taste issue.


----------



## voodoochyl (Feb 1, 2010)

Good thinking FF! Makes perfect sense.


----------



## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

Grumio - _polenta stock_ - that was worth a laugh  Inventive young lady, your niece. I Like her mantra of _Waste not, want not._

FF - again - you need more meat and bones to get it gelatinous. Necks and wings are ideal; lots of bones, balanced with some meat. I find that if you use the inner pieces of a head of celery you won't get that bitterness. I use them when I can, and also their leaves. The darker outer sticks and leaves do have a bitterness that those who are sensitive to it don't care for the flavour they give. Safer to go with the inner parts.

Just to check - you are simmering your stock - not boiling it the whole time? That can make a world of difference. I like to add a chopped tomato to my stock, it just gives it an extra subtle flavouring. Keep trying - you'll find the balance that works for you. My stock generally gets started in the wee hours on a Saturday morning if I can't sleep. By the time everyone one else wakes up the house is full of that lovely aroma, and I get a rush of breakfast orders hehe. (Yep - I spoil them all silly - but they get to do dishes).

Save your wing tips and any pieces you may have from deboning chicken, any backs that you have left after portioning a bird, bung 'em in the freezer in plastic bag and you'll soom have plenty to make a fine stock.


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

My chicken stock has definitely come a long way since I posted this thread. Now my problem is more "how do I make enough stock", not "what do I use it for". 

My wife hates it when I make chicken stock. She says "it fills the house with the best food aromas ever, and yet at the end there's nothing to eat!"


----------



## grumio (Apr 16, 2006)

I've had great results making brown stock with with turkey necks. I can usually get them for a dollar a pound. Lots of collagen, & enough meat for flavor. It will cook down to a very nice glace de... turkey, too (which does not have a particularly pronounced 'turkey' flavor). Give it a whirl if you find some.


----------



## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

Answer to problem 1: Make it more often ( and yes freezing in ice cube trays is what I do, once hard, into zip-lock bag. Even if you leave them a bit too long in the trays, there's usually a fat cap protecting it anyways)

Answer to ....ummm...problem? 2....: It smells great doesn't it?  Make a bowl of chicken noodle soup, maybe with some dumplings in it once the stock is done, or a risotto, and surprise her. Just as a snack - something out of the blue. She has a man that cooks - she's a lucky lucky girl.


----------



## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

One of my favorite quickies with stock is to bring a cup or so to a gentle boil and throw in a thinly sliced mushroom or two and a healthy splash of soy sauce. Let the mushrooms cook for 2 - 3 minutes, turn off the heat and add a coarsely chopped scallion. A quick and easy soup, gives you a good idea of the nature of the just made stock. Doing the egg drop thing is also nice.

mjb.


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Great idea, thanks. I never knew really how to "taste" my stock, that's a great suggestion. What's "the egg drop thing"?


----------



## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

Egg drop or egg flower soup is certainly one of those things where you can find a zillion different "true" and "authentic" recipes. At its most basic you just whisk up a raw egg, maybe with a teaspoon of water and a drop or two of vinegar, then drizzle it into broth, off the heat but still hot, while stirring. The egg forms long, cooked strands as it swirls into the soup.

Pretty much a standard at a Chinese restaurant, usually mildly spiced and thickend with cornstarch. Almost always based on chicken or veggie stock, not beef or pork.


mjb.


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Oh ok, wow, I learned a new dish! Thanks!


----------



## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

Teamfat - I really like that dish too - I call it my recouperitive soup and I treat myself to it, especially if I toss in some shredded fresh ginger. I find a shake of ground dried ginger works well too with the fresh, it has a similar but contrasting taste. I do a twist on it (as you say, there are many variations). I separate the egg, swirl in the white till it forms the strands. I put the egg yolk in the bottom of a chinese bowl, gently pour finished soup over it, let it sit for a couple of minutes. Heaven. You slurp up the yolk as the last treat at the bottom of the bowl. It's like a poached egg by that time, but without the fuss of the egg white around it. I liken it to eating a raw oyster, it has that kind of feel. I like a touch of fish sauce and sesame oil (very little, 4 or 5 drops per person) right at the end.


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Wow DC Sunshine, that sounds amazing. I definitely need to try that now!


----------



## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

The last time I made it with beef stock I put a small blob, maybe 1/2 teaspoon of horseradish in it. Same idea as the ginger and it was GOOD.


mjb.


----------



## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

When your energy is low, its a great soup. Just gotta be patient and let that yolk heat a little in the bottom of the bowl. I like lots of sliced green onion/scallion tops also thrown in at last minute -adds flavour and crunch. Hope you get to try it. And the yolk at the end...such a pleasure.

You are welcome


----------

