# Production techniques



## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

I know everyone has their methods based on what's required in their positions. But I was wondering if any of you would mind sharing more thoughts out loud. I'm interested as a "refresher" and to learn what I might have missed being self-taught.

WITH PRODUCTION IN MIND:

1. Joconde. I had problems with it sticking to the rings, what do you do to prevent sticking? Butter your rings and release with heat? How about in shaped individual servings forms (plastic with injectors), how do you prevent sticking? Or do you think it depends upon the recipe as to sticking?

2. Cookies, maintaining freshness, taste. Do you like to bake off and freeze, refridgerate dough and bake to order, or freeze in presliced sheets raw dough and bake to order? 

3. Muffins. Do you store batter in cooler and scoop out daily to bake, if so how long do you keep raw batter? Do you have to change any part of your recipe to do this? or Do you bake off, freeze and defrost?

4.Cakes. Do you store batter in coolers and bake fresh? Do you make in volume and freeze, pulling out what you need as you go? Leveling before you freeze? How do you like to store them/wrap them for practical use?

If you wouldn't mind....could you put a number next to your sentences so everyone knows which question your responding to at a glanze? Thanks!

Reasons for this post......trying to wake-up from my vacation, moving on to another bakery needing to think again.


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## lotuscakestudio (Jun 28, 2001)

1). Jaconde- At one place I worked at, we used a layer of jaconde in our Intensely Chocolate Cake. I took a 9" cake ring and traced it onto parchment, then reversed the parchment onto a sheet tray and used that as a guide to pipe the jaconde in. It baked just a little outside the circle, then I just used the cake ring to trim off the excess and it fit snug inside to layer with the rest of the components.

2). Cookies- Mix, scoop, line on sheet trays, cover with pan bag, and freeze. Bake daily. Everywhere I worked that did high volumes of cookies and cared about freshness did it this way. The place where I work part-time right now bakes cookies once a week. Near the end of the week, they are GROSS.

3). Muffins- While at Fresh Fields, we mixed a basic muffin batter about every 3 days. At first, we weighed out what we needed each morning for each flavor then mixed. Then we just made big vats of each flavor already mixed and they baked the same.

4). Cakes- Everywhere I've worked bakes them once or twice a week and freezes them and leveled them just before use. One place we just stored cakes on sheet trays with a pan bag over the tray. Other places, we wrapped each cake with plastic wrap. A couple places I worked did a very low volume of cakes so they were baked to order.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

1. same as LCS

2. keep mix air tight in cooler-scoop and bake

3. Basic mixes are keep in buckets in coolers. We add the garnishes every morn and bake.ex: orange rind and cranberries are added to orange cran and scooped. Our garnishes are mixed, placed on sheet pans and frozen, then placed in buckets. We then use a set amount of scoops of frozen garnish for each muff.

4. We never hold batter. We stock 10".We retard all cakes in freezer as to cut them. We prepare everything we bake off. anything other then 10" requires 4 days since we use mousse fillings. We do freeze our gratis 8" anniversary trimmed ,filled , individually wrapped ,stacked on sheets and bun bagged.


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## thebighat (Feb 21, 2001)

I don't know if they got the reference to the joconde, wendy. It's one thing to bake it in rings, another to line a ring with it as you were trying. I also find it very sticky and difficult to work with. I'd like to know what's up with that.


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## shimmer (Jan 26, 2001)

(These are from when I worked at a tiny bakery, take into account that we generally baked the same amount of product daily, apart from the bread, which went by orders, and on weekends we did five times the weekly amount because of local bed and breakfasts)

1) Not applicable

2) Scooped, flattened between precut parchment squares, and stored in narrow sour cream containers. Dough was made every other day. Cookies baked every morning, and day-old cookies were marked down and put in a separate place (and wrapped in plastic to stop them from drying out). Cookies always shaped and stored the day before since the morning baker's first duty was cooking the scones and cookies, right after walking in the door in order for them to be trayed and in the case upon opening.

3) Mixes kept in cooler in airtight buckets. Made every morning, and mixes were made weekly (or sometimes longer, they seemed to depend on how it smelled, which doesn't seem like the best way, but....)

4) Frozen, taken out as needed. If needed to be restored, wrapped completely in plastic (also in between use, the less exposure to air the better).

 ~~Shimmer~~


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

1. dah!! sticking? Shoot it with a little release. Pop in freezer.
To much smoking this weekend!!
MEATS!!!!!:lol: :smoking: :beer:


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## angrychef (Jan 15, 2001)

1. I've only use joconde for my opera sheets. 

2. Make dough, scoop out and freeze. Once frozen, bag them and bake off as needed everyday.

3. Muffin mix made once a week(all flavors), stored in 32-64 oz. containers and frozen. Thaw batter overnight when need and bake off fresh every morning. I keep muffin batter max of 3 days in the fridge. I've thawed and refrozen batter with no problem.

4. We bake off our 10" cakes usually on Monday or Tuesday(slower days), wrap in plastic wrap with parchment circle still on. If cake is domed, level it. Freeze and use as needed. I also keep 1 full sheet cake of each flavor, since I always seem to get last minute sheet cake requests. Other sizes are baked as ordered.


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

You guys are the greatest! I love coming here for input!

You know me... I have more questions....if you don't mind I'd love to know how each of you work?

5.Fillings (mousse, bavarian): do you fill tortes, making fillings fresh as needed (no storage) r do go out of your way to make a bigger batch then called for at the moment, then freeze your extras in rings (then wrap & freeze)....or do you work from pastry cream/misen place stocked items to make your fillings as needed?

6. Does everyone partcipate in baking, filling and finishing work in your kitchen making items as needed, no assigned positions? or do you have assigned jobs like baker, assistant baker to form items, decorators?

7. Do you use a proof box for all your yeast items? Or do you proof with room temp. air? Do you retard any doughs over night as a part of your production?


Thanks in advance


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## angrychef (Jan 15, 2001)

5. Some of my cakes I make 5-6 at a time and freeze. Chocoloate mousse, choc. pudding, tiramisu, white mousse + rasp., cappuccino mousse, ganache, buttercream, etc. They are made in rings/springform lined with acetate, frozen overnight, then removed(or sometimes left in rings) and plastic wrapped and left in freezer. Cakes like fruit chantilly, straw. and the like are made fresh. Leftover chocolate mousses freeze and thaw beautifully.

6. We're a small department with a heavy work load. My assistant is limited in pastry science and decorating techniques, so the bulk of the decorating work is mine. He does the more physical stuff like rolling out cookies, baking off cookies, brownies, sponge cakes, being my "mixing arm" when making large batches of mousses/creams. Mind you, we're not a regular bakery, but in other bakeries where I have worked the positions are: head baker and maybe his assistant, pastry chef/head cake decorator and assistant pastry chef or pastry cook.

7. Unfortunately we don't have a proof box, but I use a turned off oven to proof our bread products. If the oven is in use, we place items on top of oven or just room temp. which takes a little longer. Certain doughs are retarded for ease of handling while others for flavor. Cinnamon roll dough, brioche, croissant, danish and focaccia I usually retard.


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

Hum, o.k. that's how I've been handling volume too (I freeze fillings, cakes etc...). But everytime I mention the word "freezer" to someone owning a bakery they look at me like I'm nuts ("that's not fresh"). 
I use it like my oven practically. It's a tool that can be abused but still a good tool that should be used......

.....just need feed back from my peers now and then (make sure I'm up to date or not missing something)....thanks


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

NOT EVErYONE!!!!
You are absolutely right on the money when you refer to your freezer as a tool. 
When you use it as a short cut and conenience it's no longer a part of your production. When I say we don't freeze anything, I'm refering to storing products in excess of the ones need. This also includes forcasting things that will be sold in the near future.
Whats with all the ?'s. are you writing a book?


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## m brown (May 29, 1999)

Freezing cake layers keeps them moist and tightens the crumb. 

Freezing dough and butter cream is just a smart way to keep ahead of the production game.

Freezing pre sliced dough for cookies will keep you in business!

Super tool! 

great thread btw


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## anna w. (Nov 27, 2001)

I am not a production baker but I do freeze if I have to accomodate a huge order. And I freeze any extra buttercream for the next week. That stuff freezes better than cake.


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

I once worked for a restaurateur who would not provide me with a freezer, because he thought it would compromise the quality of my product. I didn't stay at that job for very long. He didn't understand that freezing does not always reduce quality.


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## pastry--chef (Aug 13, 2001)

Hi there Wendy 
1. hopefully i helped a little with the joconde question in the other thread.
2. Ready to roll cookies are great make the dough roll out to a long rolling pin shape wrap in saran and freeze off untill you have to bake them off fresh cookies every day.
3.Muffin mix we would usually make up say a 15 kilo bucket every two days, keep the flavour plain, in the morning come in add whatever was in your fridge pears, strawberries cream cheese etc...or we deposit the batter into muffin tins then pipe a lemon filling or blackberry, ganache whatever so that the muffin had a little surprise in it. Also the customer has fresh and different flavoured muffins every day.
4.The cakes sponges etc... we make on our slower days and freeze these wrapped in saran wrap if we have to we trim or level but not usually, some cake like our devils which has raspberry jam in the middle then chocolate buttercream masked around it are stored like this until needed then pulled out and enrobed with ganache.
5.Mousses are made then frozen when we have to, pastry cream is mise en place so is ganache, creamcheese icing, cheesecake mix fillings for cobblers etc..
6.Everyone helps out, but there are some jobs which are always the same line guy sets up his line and preps his own mise en place,the baker does all yeast and sweetbreads and sets up functions, after that when your main jobs are done you help out with production, decorating is usually done by myself or WITH the help of pastry cook so that the quality is kept the same and they not what is expected.
7.No proofer we let all danish and croissants prove over night if we need more we use the hot box, remembering to turn it down alittle 1st and to thro a basin of water in there as well.

Cheers P-C


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## spoons (Nov 10, 2000)

Gee, we froze everything in pastry school.
Had to keep up with production. We were producing for 3 restaurants on premises. Froze all the sponges,cheesecakes,etc.. cater wrapped them really well. Croissants and danishes, etc... all frozen. 
Now for all my wedding cakes, I bake the sponges early when I have lots of orders and FREEZE. Yes, it helps.
And my cakes are moist.


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

More specificly for a moment....how to handle production in a bakery. How to handle non-stop last minute orders, can't live with them but they sure can't live with-out them. 

Cake's no problem, they should have extra in the freezer. But this place I'm at does decorated sugar cookies and their a nightmare (IMO). 1 dozen pigs, 6 boats, 15 camels, etc..... that would be fine but at the same time they'll get a reasonable order like 200 stars wrapped and you never know where your next big order might come from (they throw their extras in the showcase and they sell well). They offer about 100 different shapes with limitless decorating possiblites. How would you handle this?


8. How do you handle the misen place of your raw ingredients when your going thru a couple bags a day? Dump in bins or work out of bag set into bins? Do you work out of large containers items come in (like cinnamon or power or salt) or fill small bins daily and scoop out of them leaving the tops open while working?

9. Those of you with-out drawers in your tables. How do you store you utensils (so they don't get dirty) close at hand? Or do you use a cental location and pick-up utensils as needed?


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

9: 6" round deep insert. all tools in that on the bench at all times.


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## pastry--chef (Aug 13, 2001)

wow Wendy sounds like the mom and pop shop have a real cookie business on there hands 100 different shapes sounds like a night mare for me are they realsy making much $$$ from the cookies or would they be better limiting to say 25 different shapes and making there life a little easier? what about if they were to roll out the cookie dough to the desired thickness and stack it in the freezer between sheets of parchment then you just pull it out and cut out the desired shapes?. Are they making the cookies because they enjoy making and decorating them perhaps for them its 1/2 hobby 1/2 job? not the best way to run a business but.....????. perhaps if you put onto paper the ingredients+labour+overheads+profit of the product and then showed them the same equation for gateaux and the chance to diversfy(sp) into providing country clubs and hotels with a fresh product perhaps they might see a broader picture.:lips: 
8: flour, sugar, etc..come in bags which are then wheeled under bench, I have worked in a place where we use to work directly out of the bag but we had a lot more room than we have in the resort.
9: utensils are kept in a large insert like panni uses next to the sink for items such as bread knives ,palette knives pastry brushes everything else cutters, peelers,steels(yeah right how many pastry chefs actually sharpen our knives ) stay in our tool boxes in the chocolate room or office everybody is suppose to have there own knives but we end up sharing alot.

Cheers PC


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

All good points (as usual pastry--chef)...I'm working on helping them see how to do things better, etc... Their making these cookies cause they sell which =profit. I think looking their looking at trees and not seeing the whole forest.......blah blah.

"WHEELED UNDER THE BENCH" yeah, thank-you!!! Totally missed that, their now stacking on milk crates (quite a pain) but on wheels...would be brilliant!


o.k. my saga continues......

1o. I keep thinking there's no need for stationary racks in their walk ins. They waste space. Anyone use all carts and have any problems doing so? Any tricks for dealing with buckets in coolers? They always get stuck in a corner and you have to shuffle each one to find what your looking for...plus they waste space big time. 

Any ideas?


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## justbeck101 (May 11, 2015)

7.No proofer we let all danish and croissants prove over night if we need more we use the hot box, remembering to turn it down alittle 1st and to thro a basin of water in there as well

How far in advance can yeast dough be made? Can I make it say at 2pm monday and refrigerate it and then bake it at 7am on Tuesday?


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