# whole wheat pastry flour vs. whole wheat flour



## lovemom51 (May 17, 2010)

Can some explain the difference between ww pastry flour and plain ww flour?  Is there a nutritional difference between the two?


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## smilinggreenmom (May 23, 2010)

I am not sure of this either and would like to know! I would love to know more about Kamut Khorasan Wheat too. I know it is loaded with vitamins and minerals and it cooks up so well - we love it! Have any of you used this?


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Whole wheat flours include the whole grain. But whether the flour is soft (i.e., pastry) or hard (i.e. bread) depends on the amount of protein contained. Whether ww or refined doesn't enter the picture.

So, if you start with soft spring wheat, for instance, doesn't matter whether you use all of it, or throw some of it away. It will always be low protein, and, thus, suitable for pastry. On the other hand, hard winter wheat will always be high in protein, and a suitable choice for bread making, whether ww or refined further.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

attention mods: Shouldn't this thread be moved to the general baking and pastry forum?


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## cabotvt (May 5, 2009)

Flour breaks down in 3 classification

Patent, 1st & 2nd clears you have middlings that break down into red dogs etc but the 3 are the main areas we use.

All flour wheat spring or winter makes all 3. Patent flour is your soft flour ie cake, pastry and comes from the center of the wheat berry. The clears come in short and long refines, the shorter the refine the softer it will be, contains more of the patent or center berry. AP flour is a leftover stabilized by chemicals.  All flour is whole wheat because all flour is made from wheat I mean the main flour not potato or rice butcake, bread and pastry flour. Remember this the darker the flour the harder its, real dark flour well keep it in the store. Dark does not mean high gluten just that the good stuff has been removed (Center berry)


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

The difference between Cake, AP, and Bread flours is the relative amount of gluten (a kind of protein).  Cake has the least protein, bread the most, and AP (you'll never guess) falls in between.   The absolute percentages tend to vary between by region, with the American South having the softest (least protein) flours.  They also vary by miller.  King Arthur flours for instance tend to have more protein than most (but not all) competing brands.

Flours with differing amounts of gluten react differently to handling -- like beating and kneading -- and act differently to create structure.  For instance, everything else being equal, a biscuit made from bread flour will be chewier than a biscuit made from cake flour, and have a more open structure.  But if the biscuit dough is substantially kneaded before baking, the bread flour biscuit will become chewier and more open, while the cake flour biscuit will get hard, and tough -- also, its rise will suffer more than the bread flour biscuit.

Obviously, for pastry, you value tenderness over structure and treat the flour relatively gently, so cake flour is the obvious choice.  That's why they call it (wait for it) "cake or pastry flour." 

This is true for both white and whole wheat flours.

The difference between white and whole wheat is that white is ground from the endosperm only, while whole wheat is ground from the bran, germ and endosperm of the wheat seed. 

I'm unclear on what Cabotvt was getting at.

BDL


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## cabotvt (May 5, 2009)

Hello, not trying to get into the flour to deep but bran is not part of Straight flour. Bran is removed at the same time as the break flour (BREAK not BREAD) and the feed, however,BREAK flour is added back to the straight. This is done after the MIDDLING is created, then after the removal of the SHORT RED DOG you are left with MIDDLINGS FLOUR now add the BREAK flour back in and you have STRAIGHT flour now from here all flours are made. Straight = PATENT, 1st CLEAR and 2nd CLEAR combined your clears being higher in GLIADIN and GLUTENIN & ASH and with the addition of water you have gluten. Gluten is not present in flour but made by adding water. The CLEAR flour is high in the ASH count as well. Remember PATENT flour has a high quality of the 2 gluten components not more but better. All other flours are by products of making PATENT. FLOUR will turn white if aged properly, we add bleach to expedite this in today's milling process speed = profit. DURUM will stay yellow. Many moons ago bread had a yellow tint and was given to the lower class of folks while the white stuff given to the snobby nose types but then again mules brought the wheat to the mill and we did not have cell phones WOW WHAT A CONCEPT.  I will leave the flour milling at this thread. It is a very unique scientific process and if done right makes really good eats.

Cheers


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

I feel this is becoming so technical and jargon-laden it's difficult to understand. The discussion of "straight" vs "clear" and "patent" flours is particularly confusing. Especially so, since the OP did not ask about those sorts of grades but about the difference between regular whole wheat and whole wheat cake flour.

Also it may be worthwhile clarifying a few things which seem to have been garbled. For instance, regarding whole wheat (as opposed to straight) flour:


> _The word "whole" refers to the fact that all of the grain (*bran, germ, and endosperm*) is used and nothing is lost in the process of making the flour. This is in contrast to white, refined flours, which contain *only the endosperm*. Because the whole flour contains the remains of all of the grain, it has a textured, brownish appearance. _[Emphases added]


Wikipedia. (If you like, I can supply innumerable other sources on request. However, this is common knowledge).

Returning to the OP's original question regarding pastry and cake flours as distinct from AP and bread flours, it's worth reiterating what has already been said several times here. Pastry and cake flours have less protein than either AP or bread (aka "high gluten). As I understand it, the protein difference is largely attributable to the types of wheat, farming practices and growing conditions rather than milling techniques. You might be interested in looking at this.

Hope this helps,

BDL


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## lovemom51 (May 17, 2010)

I am the original poster (is that "OP"?) of this question and have read all posted responses. I am not sure that my original question was clearly stated. My only question concerns the comparative nutritional value of *whole wheat pastry flour *vs. *whole wheat flour*. Are they nutritionally equivalent?

Thanks!


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Originally Posted by *lovemom51* 


> I am the original poster (is that "OP"?) of this question and have read all posted responses. I am not sure that my original question was clearly stated. My only question concerns the comparative nutritional value of *whole wheat pastry flour *vs. *whole wheat flour*. Are they nutritionally equivalent?


Not exactly. Regular whole wheat flour has more protein than whole wheat pastry flour. The question actually was answered, but I understand that it was difficult to find.

BDL


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Accidentally posted.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

[No message]


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