# BF wants a Shun, but.....



## pdxcher (Nov 23, 2016)

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Hi all.

I'm new here so thank you for any help and/or suggestions.

Background

I want to purchase a knife (or two) for my BF for Christmas. He has wanted Shun knives for a very long time. It's right up there with him wanting All-Clad. Ugh. So, I started my research. From what I've always heard, Shun's were Japanese made to German specs (no clue what that means), so they're different than say MAC knives. Again, no clue, so bear with me. During my research I'm seeing that Shun's aren't always the best choice - not a bad one - just that there are better knives out there for the money.

Preference

I currently have a set of MAC Professional knives. BF wasn't keen on them, but once I had them sharpened, had him watch a video on how to cut with Japanese knives, and told him he can't slam them around, he loves them. BUT the handles are too small for his big hands. I'm an Asian woman, I love my MAC's because they fit. I realize knives can be a very personal choice, so whatever I buy, I need to be sure I can return them OR he can try them out himself first.

Options

Here's why I'm writing….I have heard GREAT things about Murray Carter knives. I can't afford many of his pieces, but he does have some affordable stuff ($1k is not affordable; $200/knife is way more affordable for a damned good knife). What are your thoughts about him? I ask, because I live about a mile from his shop. I got my MAC knives sharpened there. Do you usually use your indentations when sharpened? Sorry, tangent. Figured I'd ask about Carter or other options, or heck, is Shun still a good option?

I'll try to answer what I can. It's a bit difficult because I'm trying to surprise him. And we'll probably have two of some pieces as I intend to keep my MAC knives around - good thing I have a 22" knife magnet holder thingy.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

You can't even get a paring knife from Carter for 200, and his Muteki series is especially not worth the money.

Your BF doesn't want the Shun, he just wants the bling, and there are far better performers for the money that can satisfy that and more. Here is just one of the makers: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/shkar2da.html

These knives are just as blingy and also great perfomers, but more durable: https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/hammered-damascus-series

Now he just needs to learn how to sharpen, unless he has that down already. No sense buying a Shun (their sharpening service is not worth the postage) or any other pricey knife unless you can sharpen, or have someone to do it for you.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Then of course here are those who feel their experiences of a particular product are good simply because their experience is too limited to know of any better.  Of course some at least would like to know better, perhaps even pdxcgher's BF, and of course granny bloomers have absolutely nothing in common with VS apparell and the analogy simply doesn't apply here.

But that of course is all mostly irrelevant as the OP came here because the predominance of opinion she has come across clearly indicates there are better knives, in every way, to be had for the money, and indeed there are.

And pdxcher, to explain what is meant by "Japanese made to German specs,"  that refers to the big belly curve and high tip of German knives.  Prior to the 1920's no German knives where made like this, rather they all resembled the French profile which is relatively flat and has the tip situated below handle-level.  The new German variation was a marketing strategy as it made sharpening knives with full bolsters (finger guards), easier to sharpen.  In the kitchen it really has more disadvantage than advantage.  Japanese knives are relatively flat in profile and otherwise like those of the classic French design, which were also very thin behind the edge, also unlike German knives, and Shuns, of today.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Welcome to cheftalk. Murray Carter is highly regarded, Im jealous you live so close! His cheaper knives are made by apprentices under supervision but some of those apprentices have been there for years.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

If you look at pictures of the Shun chef knife compared to your Mac's you'll notice the difference in knife shape/profile

Does your bf pinch grip?

Can anyone who's used the Itinomonn ho-wood handle comment on its relative size? I've got the burnt chestnut handle which is quite large, was curious if the ho-wood handles are as well. @MillionsKnives @Rick Alan @Mike9
OP, I assume that since you were considering Carter knives that stainless clad carbon is okay


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

I have huge hands so "large" in general is a very relative term here. But looking at the picture:

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-kasumi-240mm-wa-gyuto/ .... you see that the ferrule is oval shaped, and in effect nicely slender.

My Takamura Migaki perfecetly suites the in-hand fine slicing I do so much of, but for the knife work most do the Itonomon is hard to match for price and performance. It doesn't have the faux Damascus cladding, but for classiness a nicely engraved kanji on the blade beats a mere decal that will soon wear off, faux Damascus or no.

To get back to one of the OP's original concerns, what makes a kitchen knife worth more than a 1 or 2 digit figure is a thin edge and consistently good heat treat of whatever high quality steel is used, and good geometry. You would think it only logical that these are the only kind knives worth spending the money on. And if the consensus doesn't recommend a knife it is simply because it doesn't meet those 3 criteria, especially when a knife doesn't meet any of those criteria very well.

@pdxcher, just out of curiosity can you find out which Shun, if any in particular, your BF was interested in? They have a number of different lines, in both VG-10 and SG-2 steel.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Itinomonn handle is bigger than any other wa handle I have by like 20% it is using D shaped shigefusa handle.


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## pdxcher (Nov 23, 2016)

Rick Alan said:


> You can't even get a paring knife from Carter for 200, and his Muteki series is especially not worth the money.
> 
> Your BF doesn't want the Shun, he just wants the bling, and there are far better performers for the money that can satisfy that and more. Here is just one of the makers: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/shkar2da.html
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info on alternative brands. Why must they be all sold out? Hehe. As for sharpening, neither of us knows how, however, Murray Carter Cutlery is down the street and they sharpened my MAC knives and it wasn't expensive (well, IMHO it wasn't, I think I paid $10/knife). And I agree, I think he likes the look of the folded metal. It's not like he's ever used a Shun. If he has and he absolutely loves everything about it, then I probably would get it for him. 


Rick Alan said:


> Then of course here are those who feel their experiences of a particular product are good simply because their experience is too limited to know of any better. Of course some at least would like to know better, perhaps even pdxcgher's BF, and of course granny bloomers have absolutely nothing in common with VS apparell and the analogy simply doesn't apply here.
> 
> But that of course is all mostly irrelevant as the OP came here because the predominance of opinion she has come across clearly indicates there are better knives, in every way, to be had for the money, and indeed there are.
> 
> And pdxcher, to explain what is meant by "Japanese made to German specs," that refers to the big belly curve and high tip of German knives. Prior to the 1920's no German knives where made like this, rather they all resembled the French profile which is relatively flat and has the tip situated below handle-level. The new German variation was a marketing strategy as it made sharpening knives with full bolsters (finger guards), easier to sharpen. In the kitchen it really has more disadvantage than advantage. Japanese knives are relatively flat in profile and otherwise like those of the classic French design, which were also very thin behind the edge, also unlike German knives, and Shuns, of today.


Thank you for the "Japanese made to German specs" explanation. And for the support of looking beyond Shun. My mom had given me my MAC's, mostly because we have small hands and she felt they'd be a great addition. They were, I love them. But if I have to breakdown a chicken, I grab my German knife since they're less likely to chip. For my BF, I'm trying to balance cost, usage, beauty, and finding a good knife worth the money. 


MillionsKnives said:


> Welcome to cheftalk. Murray Carter is highly regarded, Im jealous you live so close! His cheaper knives are made by apprentices under supervision but some of those apprentices have been there for years.


Thanks! Trust me, when I found out who he was, how highly people regarded him, I had to take my knives to get sharpened. Granted, I have no idea if he did it himself, but it was that or one other place that got so-so reviews. I swear I thought I saw that he has sharpening classes once in awhile at his shop too, but can't seem to find the info again. Maybe he told me in-person. 


foody518 said:


> If you look at pictures of the Shun chef knife compared to your Mac's you'll notice the difference in knife shape/profile
> 
> Does your bf pinch grip?
> 
> ...


I don't believe he does a pinch grip. I'll have to pay attention when he uses a knife again. Does that affect the knife he should get? Or type he should use? As for stainless clad carbon, I'll be honest, I have no clue what makes it different. However, I'm pretty sure BF wouldn't know the difference either. Again, I'm pretty sure (may need to ask tonight) BF likes Shun's for their look (folded metal) and feel (larger handle - comfy to him), but otherwise, I don't believe he knows how it actually cuts. So, a knife being stainless clad carbon may not matter. 


Rick Alan said:


> I have huge hands so "large" in general is a very relative term here. But looking at the picture:
> 
> http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-kasumi-240mm-wa-gyuto/ .... you see that the ferrule is oval shaped, and in effect nicely slender.
> 
> ...


That itinomonn is a pretty knife.  And yes, I realize "large" is relative. Especially since I have tiny hands. haha.

Wait. Are you saying some knives have fake lines/folding (I'm assuming that's what the Damascus is)? Wow.

From what I can see recently (search history is great) he was looking at Classic (which I told him to not to move on from). Premier 9-pc set, Blue, Edo....he has no clue what he wants. And while looking at my search history, I see Shun's are 50% off at Williams-Sonoma until Monday (guess I'd better make a decision by then, in case I do go Shun route).


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

If you decide on Shun classic, the 3-piece set worked well for me. And if it's on sale all the better for you and BF.

http://www.williams-sonoma.com/m/pr...-starter-set/?pkey=cshun-classic&isx=0.0.1313


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Wow pdxcher, despite the Holidays you've really done some thinking on this. It's nice to know your efforts have been worth while, and this is why we take the time to explain things as we do here in the Knife Forum. We really want people to have that wow experience when all is finally said and done.

In the sub $200 category the Geshin Gonbei 210 (8.25") with Japanese handle is still available. Availability in general is a problem with performance-level Japanese knives, but if time is not an issue, oh they are so worth the wait.

You have a limited selection of 50% off at WS but, good news in a relative sense, if I had no options but an 8" VG-10 Shun chef knife the one I'd pick is the one on the sale, the 8" kuritsuki http://www.williams-sonoma.com/prod...un-favorites-promo|promo-shun-favorites-promo

For $99, and as a gift for someone who is not actually performance oriented, I have to say it does look like a reasonable choice for you. So it looks like the easy choices of the moment are the Gonbei (great steel and everything else, definitely my pick) or the Shun Classic. Either way your BF is going to be very happy with his new knife.

Murry's $10 sharpening is definitely worth it, so I believe you are all set there. Now it's just "decisions, decisions."


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Oh, PS

Faux Damascus does not mean "fake layers."  It simply refers to there being a core steel section, the stuff actually doing the cutting, that is separate from the layered cladding, the so-called "Damascus steel."  So "faux" refers to the fact that these layered section are not functional, but just there for show.  Lots of knives use it, some very expensive and great performing ones too, but it does not add to the performance of these knives, it's purely asthetic.  Actually real Damascus steel is not even a layered construction, oh but that's just a whole nother story....


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

@pdxcher by the way this one is still in stock (for now)
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-stainless-kasumi-240mm-wa-gyuto/ 
I asked about the grip because that can affect how versatile one is to different handle types and sizes. With a pinch grip, which is a good grip to use for many cutting tasks, these differences tend to matter less. The one handle I've had issue with as someone with small hands was actually a handle that ran too big in circumference :/
Carter knives are stainless cladding with a carbon core steel that is exposed for the last cm or so. That part will react and form patina, or rust if not wiped and dried fairly promptly during and after use.


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## pdxcher (Nov 23, 2016)

BrianShaw said:


> If you decide on Shun classic, the 3-piece set worked well for me. And if it's on sale all the better for you and BF.
> 
> http://www.williams-sonoma.com/m/pr...-starter-set/?pkey=cshun-classic&isx=0.0.1313


Thanks! And I agree, on sale is great. I'm keeping this option in mind, especially for the price.


Rick Alan said:


> Wow pdxcher, despite the Holidays you've really done some thinking on this. It's nice to know your efforts have been worth while, and this is why we take the time to explain things as we do here in the Knife Forum. We really want people to have that wow experience when all is finally said and done.
> 
> In the sub $200 category the Geshin Gonbei 210 (8.25") with Japanese handle is still available. Availability in general is a problem with performance-level Japanese knives, but if time is not an issue, oh they are so worth the wait.
> 
> ...


Thanks Rick Alan. I always do my research, as thoroughly as possible. I want the best for my money (even if the money doesn't stretch that far). If I read Shun's are worth every dime, it may just not be for everyone, then I'd get them without hesitations. Even my MAC's, I know aren't "the best" but I know my mom does her research too and will get good stuff. I'm grateful for them, especially considering how much I had to use my 8" santoku (I'm not a cook, but I had to cut 6 lbs of potatoes a week for my dog - he had kidney failure). Love that knife.

Just to confirm that I'm looking at these correctly, both of those are santoku's, right? I like the Geshin Gonbei. Do you know how that compares to my MAC Pro's? It says it's not as thin as their other line, Gesshin Ginga. However, I do like that it's tough, durable, good edge retention.

Glad to hear Murray's $10 is worth it.  That was the first time I've ever had knives professionally sharpened. All I knew was I had to find someone who knew how to sharpen Japanese knives. I'm grateful he's right here. 


Rick Alan said:


> Oh, PS
> 
> Faux Damascus does not mean "fake layers." It simply refers to there being a core steel section, the stuff actually doing the cutting, that is separate from the layered cladding, the so-called "Damascus steel." So "faux" refers to the fact that these layered section are not functional, but just there for show. Lots of knives use it, some very expensive and great performing ones too, but it does not add to the performance of these knives, it's purely asthetic. Actually real Damascus steel is not even a layered construction, oh but that's just a whole nother story....


Oooohhhh! Well, that's good to know. I thought maybe it was just like some logos that come off after awhile. 


foody518 said:


> @pdxcher by the way this one is still in stock (for now)
> http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-stainless-kasumi-240mm-wa-gyuto/ /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif
> I asked about the grip because that can affect how versatile one is to different handle types and sizes. With a pinch grip, which is a good grip to use for many cutting tasks, these differences tend to matter less. The one handle I've had issue with as someone with small hands was actually a handle that ran too big in circumference :/
> Carter knives are stainless cladding with a carbon core steel that is exposed for the last cm or so. That part will react and form patina, or rust if not wiped and dried fairly promptly during and after use.


Have you purchased from that website before? I'm just wondering how long shipping takes. I'm assuming the knives are coming from Denmark (where it's based)? Thanks for explaining about the pinch grip. I'm pretty sure he doesn't use one and I know he dislikes my MAC's because the handles are so small. I think the knives move around too much in his grip. And bummer about Carter's; I am definitely not buying BF anything that will rust. My XH already rusted two of my MAC's and stated, "knives don't rust". AUGH! I was able to clean it, but yeah, don't mess with my knives! And BF is even worse about leaving my knives with food all over it overnight. Maybe he doesn't deserve nice knives. 

Thanks for the options everyone. So far, I think I may go with the Gonbei. Mostly due to price and look....because I know these are all good knives.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Plot twist, if he likes scooping up food with the cutting edge, there's a stainless Gesshin Chinese cleaver at Japanese Knife Imports for around $150  EDIT: oh no! Hadn't realized it sold out :/
But it seems like that Gonbei should be a good choice
I've bought from JNS before and had about a week turnaround on delivery time. Pretty impressive. Though you're right, would not buy non-stainless for folks who are liable to even rust 'stainless' knives
Most santoku are around 7 inches or so, uncommon to find longer, and I believe the 210mm Rick is referring to is a gyuto (chef's knife)


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

I'd really like to give a more in depth reply, you deserve it, but I just haven't got time right now, and it's looking like decision time for you. So in short, the Gonbei really does look like the best choice for the two of you.  Along with having the looks it's a thin knife but you can treat it much like your MAC, it will get at least as sharp and will hold its edge significantly longer. It will even have good food release.  And a 210 gyuto simply has more utility than a santoku.  For the money I do not think you can do better.


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## pdxcher (Nov 23, 2016)

foody518 said:


> Plot twist, if he likes scooping up food with the cutting edge, there's a stainless Gesshin Chinese cleaver at Japanese Knife Imports for around $150 /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif EDIT: oh no! Hadn't realized it sold out :/
> But it seems like that Gonbei should be a good choice
> I've bought from JNS before and had about a week turnaround on delivery time. Pretty impressive. Though you're right, would not buy non-stainless for folks who are liable to even rust 'stainless' knives
> Most santoku are around 7 inches or so, uncommon to find longer, and I believe the 210mm Rick is referring to is a gyuto (chef's knife)


Haha. Plot twist. Love it!

Not bad on the turnaround time, I'm impressed. Good to know.

I agree on not getting him non-stainless...at least until he learns to take care of them better. 

What do you think of the nakiri instead of a cleaver? I've never had either one, but my chinese friend only uses a cleaver (the big on, not the size of the nakiri). I thought maybe it might be useful?

There's a matching nakiri to the gyuto that Rick suggested. 


Rick Alan said:


> I'd really like to give a more in depth reply, you deserve it, but I just haven't got time right now, and it's looking like decision time for you. So in short, the Gonbei really does look like the best choice for the two of you. Along with having the looks it's a thin knife but you can treat it much like your MAC, it will get at least as sharp and will hold its edge significantly longer. It will even have good food release. And a 210 gyuto simply has more utility than a santoku. For the money I do not think you can do better.


Aw, I appreciate it, I do! You (and the others) have given me tons to think about. I am pretty sure I'm going to go with the gyuto (unless someone throw something else in the mix). I know he likes the santoku, but trust me, he reaches first and foremost for my chef's knife.


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## pdxcher (Nov 23, 2016)

First, I wanted to say thanks to everyone. I decided to go with the gyuto that Rick suggested. And at that price, I'm thinking, maybe I can try to find another piece? I know foody518 suggested a cleaver.

Below is a picture of my current collection. I have a few other odd knives that I rarely use that aren't shown. In fact, the knife that no one really uses is the 4th knife from the left (actually, I have no clue what to even use that for). Heck, even the bread knife gets used more. Thoughts?

Oh, the gyuto I buy will replace my MAC chef knife on the very left.





  








2016-11-28 00.03.34.jpg




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pdxcher


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Nov 28, 2016


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

pdxcher said:


> Haha. Plot twist. Love it!
> 
> Not bad on the turnaround time, I'm impressed. Good to know.
> 
> ...


I think it's a fun complement to the main knife, but not that versatile to be a main knife. Today while shredding nappa cabbage I was very happy to be using a 240mm gyuto, and by and large nakiri just do not come in that length

If you do a lot of slicing of roasts, grilled meats, etc. a sujihiki/slicer could be a good addendum. Or if you have found your bread knife to be a bit short for some loaves, a longer bread knife like a ~10 inch MAC Bread Knife. Korin's got a 15% sale on knives for a few more days http://korin.com/Knives/MAC_3


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

I have very large hands, but have never found any handles to be problematic. I suspect that BF has not learned to use a pinch grip. MACs are such good knives, I'm inclined to say he should learn a proper pinch instead of getting more knives.

The second joint of the third finger should be pressed gently against the back of the blade at the ferrule, the rest of the finger wrapped loosely around the handle. The thumb and forefinger gently pinch the blade as far forward as necessary to have a comfortable grip. The last two fingers do nothing. If the knife is extremely sharp, the pinch itself can be almost nonexistent.

With a grip like this, most of the handle is just there as balancing weight, not something to hold onto.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## pdxcher (Nov 23, 2016)

foody518 said:


> I think it's a fun complement to the main knife, but not that versatile to be a main knife. Today while shredding nappa cabbage I was very happy to be using a 240mm gyuto, and by and large nakiri just do not come in that length
> 
> If you do a lot of slicing of roasts, grilled meats, etc. a sujihiki/slicer could be a good addendum. Or if you have found your bread knife to be a bit short for some loaves, a longer bread knife like a ~10 inch MAC Bread Knife. Korin's got a 15% sale on knives for a few more days http://korin.com/Knives/MAC_3


oh, nice bread knife! Unfortunately, I don't need one. And it sounds like there's really no use for the nakiri. Oh wait, the sujihiki, is that what my smaller MAC knife is (second one from the right)? Although, the sujihiki's look longer. We do grill meat a lot and since it's winter, lots of slow cooker meals, haha. Hmm....that may be a thought. Thanks for the suggestion!


ChrisLehrer said:


> I have very large hands, but have never found any handles to be problematic. I suspect that BF has not learned to use a pinch grip. MACs are such good knives, I'm inclined to say he should learn a proper pinch instead of getting more knives.
> 
> The second joint of the third finger should be pressed gently against the back of the blade at the ferrule, the rest of the finger wrapped loosely around the handle. The thumb and forefinger gently pinch the blade as far forward as necessary to have a comfortable grip. The last two fingers do nothing. If the knife is extremely sharp, the pinch itself can be almost nonexistent.
> 
> ...


It could be that, I really am not sure. Maybe I'll have him try it out and see. Gratefully, he's willing to try things, just not try washing my knives asap. ugh.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

I think all the recommendations are stainless.

I don't use a bread knife either, a quick pull on my slicer breaks the crust on most breads, even croissants with their mushy innards to baby.  No, suji is a slicer, narrow and thin, typically 9"+, and much longer, used mainly for slicing protien, but some of us have had them for goto's also.  You might find it nice alternating with the gyuto.

I can help you spend more money if you want though.  I have a high-end petty I use for wacking off super-thin slices of small stuff machine-gun fire rate, like celery, shallots, garlic, broccoli stalks, etc.  Keen edge (for stainless) and very high wear resistant steel.  Maybe something you can see in your future.  Or maybe real nice (read, "gets crazy sharp") parer/petty/utility.

Hah, Men!  ;-)~  Actually most of us around here are in the habit of rinsing and wiping our stainless much as if it were carbon.  Cleanliness is a good habit in general around the kitchen.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Thanx for completing the thoughts of the autistic kid.  ;-)


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## scott livesey (Jan 25, 2013)

For the money to be spent, I would look at some American small volume makers. I think there are American makers making knives as good or better than anything coming from Far East.

http://www.caltoncutlery.com/available-kitchen-knives22.html knives in high carbon and stainless

I am saying SHOP. there are many good blades being here in USA. MAC and Shun are high volume makers, at best the knife you get will be a compromise. The idea of the maker on his haunches in front of a charcoal fire with a single hammer making your blade is a myth.

scott


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## pdxcher (Nov 23, 2016)

I just received my Gonbei 210mm Gyuto. OMG! What a gorgeous knife!!! I didn't want to open the packaging (that was so pretty too), but I wanted to see it and feel it. I think he's going to LOVE it!!! The handle feels great (well, it will for him). Can't wait to try it out. Thank you for the suggestion Rick Alan!

I think I'll see how he likes it before looking at other knives. And maybe, just maybe, one day I'll get him to wash off knives after he uses them. Haha. 

Thank you everyone. Now at least I have a few go to brands and websites to browse.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Congrats! It's a great knife.  Oil the handle with mineral oil once in a while.  Not a lot like a few drops on a paper towel and wipe down maybe every month or so if it feels too dry


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## robvulaj (Dec 4, 2016)

I figured chiming in on this thread would be best rather than start a new one.. today I was at home goods buying Christmas stuff and as I was checking out and saw a shun knife set behind the counter. I ended up buying the 5 peace set that came with the 10" classic chef knife, a pairing knife, a serrated panini, knife sharpener and the bamboo block.. it was 230 I couldn't pass it up. I know one of the main complaints about shun if that for the price you can get better Japanese knives, but do you guys think that at 230 bucks this is worth keeping or should I return it and just invest in better knives??


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Yes congratulations, I was quite sure this was the one for you, be sure to let us know the BF's reactions.

Just a note, you'll likely find the edge comes very sharp, but it is often the case that the initial edge on these knives is fragile, so the edge retention you find on the first go around is no indication of how well this knife will hold an edge after a couple of sharpenings.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Hopefully you requested initial sharpening by JKI - that helps a good bit


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## chefsdreams (Nov 30, 2016)

christmas is right around the corner, so this may be a little bit late. but maybe you're one of those folks who wait till the last minute... like me?

i have shun knives and have used them for several years. this is not necessarily an endorsement as i also have other kitchen knives as well. but you mentioned something i found interesting. that is the handle.

my opinion is that the 'feel' of the handle is a much overlooked area of review for those looking to get a knife. 

shun, as you may know from your research, has a few different lines. the shun sora line is their 'budget' line. these tend to be a little bit less expensive. they also tend to have slightly smaller handles. this may solve one of your areas of concern - that of price.

the premier line is more expensive. and the handles are larger and more robust. i have large hands, but i prefer a smaller knife - a 6" chefs knife, for example in my kitchen at home. 

there is, of course, a certain 'coolness' around a nice big, long knife like the shun classic 10" chef's knife. but i have a really tiny kitchen at home and that knife makes me feel like i'm wielding a katana!

good luck and happy holidays.


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## pdxcher (Nov 23, 2016)

Hi all,

I wanted to give an update of the gyuto. First, my BF absolutely loved the look of it (score!), then he held it in his hand and he said, "this feels really good" (score!). And then he finally used it. He said it was the best knife he ever used. It was super sharp, cut like a hot knife through butter (score!). And he said that it was very comfortable to use. Well, obviously it was a big hit and it was his favorite present. He wanted to cook something but we were so busy, I don't think he used it until a couple of weeks ago. I asked him how it felt compared to my MAC's and he said he loves the feel of it. I asked him if he'd want more and he said, "sure, but what more do I need?" Haha! 

So, great choice. I think the price was along what I wanted to pay. The handle is a better fit for him. He loves the look of it! It's not his Shun's that he coveted for so long, but I think he's really going to love this more.  Thank you so very much for introducing these knives to me.

And now for the coup de grace, I finally used it tonight for the first time. The handle is too large for me if I hold it in my hand that way. It's uncomfortable in the sense that I don't feel like I'm getting a good grip (I typically use a pinch grip, so it doesn't matter, but I wanted a well-rounded review of the knife). I did have JKI sharpen it, so it was ready to go. OMG. It's weird how the feel of the cutting is different than the MAC. I'm not even sure I can explain it. With my MAC's, I always feel like, even when sharpened, that they drag a bit. Either on the food or the cutting board. They also feel, and this is weird, thinner. I'm not even sure how to describe it. When I cut through things, it cuts easily, but I dunno, it's just like I am more aware of the blade. This gyuto though, omg, it felt soooo awesome.
 

I believe the blade length is too long for me for what I tend to do. I'm making a chicken stew. So I cut up boneless chicken thighs, cut off some fat (seriously, it slid off so easily - cutting it off). I cut up potatoes (I do like those little indentations on knives to help unstick the potato, but I just rinsed the knife off), celery, onions, and carrots. As much as I love the feel of it, because I can't feel the blade when I'm cutting, I'm thinking that's dangerous for me (I'm the type to slice myself - I always hurt myself at least once in the kitchen - and that's why I don't cook), so I'll stick to my MAC's. 

But still. Awesome blade, awesome knife. I'm happy to endorse it and let them take more of my money!


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## pdxcher (Nov 23, 2016)

MillionsKnives said:


> Congrats! It's a great knife. Oil the handle with mineral oil once in a while. Not a lot like a few drops on a paper towel and wipe down maybe every month or so if it feels too dry


I didn't even think about that. Thank you for the reminder. I'll go buy some mineral oil; I'm pretty sure I don't have any. 


Rick Alan said:


> Yes congratulations, I was quite sure this was the one for you, be sure to let us know the BF's reactions.
> 
> Just a note, you'll likely find the edge comes very sharp, but it is often the case that the initial edge on these knives is fragile, so the edge retention you find on the first go around is no indication of how well this knife will hold an edge after a couple of sharpenings.


I posted about BF's reaction in a previous post, but yeah, he totally absolutely loved it. Then he used it and loved it even more.  He's extremely happy with it and wants to build a new set. 


foody518 said:


> Hopefully you requested initial sharpening by JKI - that helps a good bit


I did! I wanted it out of the box ready to go. Such an awesome knife!


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## pdxcher (Nov 23, 2016)

chefsdreams said:


> christmas is right around the corner, so this may be a little bit late. but maybe you're one of those folks who wait till the last minute... like me?
> 
> i have shun knives and have used them for several years. this is not necessarily an endorsement as i also have other kitchen knives as well. but you mentioned something i found interesting. that is the handle.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply. I think that is good to know for anyone reading this, including myself. I literally LOL'd at the katana comment. I used my gyuto tonight for the first time and it's long and I started pretending it was a sword (no humans were home, and my dogs are too low to get cut). Too funny.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Thanks for chiming back in with how the knife was received and how it's doing! No instances of it sitting around with caked on food bits and juices yet?

Curious to know exactly what you mean by drag. But certainly it's important to have a good feel for what you're doing with a knife in your hands.

I have a knife that I call my 'warrior knife'. The blade length is 270mm. No judgment here


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Maybe the drag is 'toothiness' from sharpening on lower grit stones?   I get that at 1000 even 2000 grit.   On finishing level stones that feeling should be gone.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

IIRC OP is taking the MACs to Carter Cutlery for sharpening


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

I thought it might just be the relatively flat grind on the MAC causing the drag, and also a combination of the superior steel, thinner edge, and also Jon very likely doing a better sharpening job than Murry's able but not quite spectacular apprentices.

But anyways, thrilled to hear the results, that's all that counts.


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