# Why do they use the term "Amateur chef"?



## caterchef (Oct 12, 2009)

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/chef.gifWe don't have amateur doctors, or amateur lawyers or amateur TV program editors or amateur airline pilots (or do we) or amateur CEO's (or do we). An amateur doctor would be an intern or an amateur lawyer would be a law student. Where do they get the term amateur "Master of Culinary Arts for that's what a Chef is." Anyone who cooks is not a Chef anything just a cook. Flying a Piper Cub airplane does not make you an airline pilot no more than giving someone an asprin makes you a doctor. Food Network has many "so called cooks"but I don't see any that I would call Chef. Do these actors work so cheap to get national exposure or is the air-time that much cheaper for the sponsors. I do not understand the rating system, If they were on ABC,NBC,CBS or FOX they would have been cancelled long ago (except for Rachael Ray of coarse) but she dosen't claim to be a Chef but cooks better than the rest of them. When are they going to call a spade a spade and a loser a loser. It is becoming the next (Ripleys) Network's Believe it or Not." /img/vbsmilies/smilies/frown.gif

P.S. And now "Scripps Networks" (owner of Food Network) is coming out with "The Cooking Channel" Memorial day to replace FLN. Is there no end to the madness?
http://scrippsnetworks.com/newsitem.aspx?id=418


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## left4bread (May 8, 2009)

There are tons of posts on this subject, but I validate your rant.
See how I chose "Restaurant  Manager" instead of "Chef"?
I respect the title too much to throw it around.
(er.... but not too much to respond to a thread on a 'chefs only' board)...

You had me up the the "rachael ray' part.  
I'm not a follower and I don't watch cable,
but it's not funny anymore.  She's done.  Don't mention the name.
Edit that part out and you've got a legitimate rant.


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## caterchef (Oct 12, 2009)

O. K. left4bread I struck through it  But, I still think she's cute "cook" to be a "millionaire."


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

left4bread said:


> There are tons of posts on this subject, but I validate your rant.
> See how I chose "Restaurant Manager" instead of "Chef"?
> I respect the title too much to throw it around.
> (er.... but not too much to respond to a thread on a 'chefs only' board)...
> ...


How could you knock Rachael Ray, I would say she did pretty good for herself. She makes about 32 million a year, just because you don't like her, don't knock her for doing well...............Chef Bill


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

I'm wondering, Caterchef, if we're talking about the same Food Network?

While there are lots of things about FN and its stars to dislike, I have never heard the term amateur chef used there. Wait, I take that back. One of Bobby Flay's guests on Grillin' referred to himself that way. But none of the celebrities have, far as I know. And it's certainly not, as you imply, a term tossed around with abandon. 

And the fact is, there is a long list of FN stars who have more than earned their chops and the right to the title Chef. If you object to people like Bobby Flay, and Giada Delaurentis, and Morimoto, and Emeril, and Mario Batali, and Anne Burrell and others like them being addressed as Chef, then we have a real definitional disagreement. 

As part of her media blitz, much has been made about Rachael Ray's disclaimer to the the title. But she's not the only one. Alton Brown and Paula Dean, among others, are on record as not being chefs. Brian Boitano may be making a fool of himself for money, but he doesn't do it by claiming to be a chef---amateur or otherwise. Melissa DeArabian is a home cook who won a contest, and doesn't claim to be anything else. 

So, if you want to rant against the Food Network's programming choices or particular members of its celebrity team, go to it. But don't masquerade it with a non-existent issue.


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## caterchef (Oct 12, 2009)

I have seen the term  "amateur chef" proliferate through the competition shows, that why I brought it up. Just because they put on a chef's coat  doesn't make them a Chef. In fact I don't remember ever seeing Rachael Ray with an apron on or use a measuring cup or spoon. I am all for giving credit where credit is due but, people like Guy Ferri, Aaron McCargo and a lot of others are an insult to profession. (And don't get me started about Gordon Ramsey)


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

caterchef said:


> I have seen the term "amateur chef" proliferate through the competion shows, that why I brought it up. Just because they put on a chef's coat doesn't make them a Chef. In fact I don't remember ever seeing Rachael Ray with an apron on or use a measuring cup or spoon. I am all for giving credit where credit is due but, people like Guy Ferri, Aaron McCargo and a lot of others are an insult to profession. (And don't get me started about Gordon Ramsey)


Happy we have this figured out, you have to use a measuring cup, and a spoon, to be a Chef. In that case, I'm not a Chef, But, I am a real high paid food prep attendant.


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## caterchef (Oct 12, 2009)

I think you misunderstood my meaning ( Chefs don't use measuring devices either)
I use a Balance Beam scale and a gallon measure  in the bakery, That's all.


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

I think Rice is the only thing I measure in the kitchen. Now, baking is a whole different deal...............


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## eloki (Apr 3, 2006)

Gordon Ramsay is a sellout.  But he's filthy rich thanks to that.  And he still is a 3 star chef & he does promote good food (see the F word), and I do believe he worked his ass off to be where he is now, whether people like him or not.


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## gunnar (Apr 3, 2008)

I think what Caterchef  is talking about is the competition ads I keep seeing. Either guy's ultimate recipe showdown or the who's gonna be the next FN flop. you know how it goes "The Country's Best Amatuer Chefs Throwdown for a chance at Eleventybillion dollars and the chance to sneered at by professionals"  or "Amatuer Chefs have gathered from all round the country for thier shot at glory"

what they are saying is that Joe and Suzy home cook are not Professional Chefs, in that they don't earn their money selling food.  is it an abuse of the word chef? only to those of us who care.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

1) Have NEVER watched the food network.
2) Based on 15 years of living here in Canada, anyone who puts opn a poofy white hat is a "Chef".  Heck, I buy "Chef's blend" dog food for my dog.

The word "cook", in N.America is a filthy digusting word, to be replaced by "Chef".  The verb "cook" has been repalced with "Chef", as in "I chef at the Dine0mite".

Me, I worked my butt off and then did a 3 yr apprenticeship to earn the title "Cook", and I'm proud of it.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

_I think you misunderstood my meaning 
_
Well I must still be misunderstanding, especially when you say:

_but, people like Guy Ferri, Aaron McCargo and a lot of others are an insult to profession. (And don't get me started about Gordon Ramsey)

_Two out of three of those people are bonefide chefs no matter how you define it. They have training---either formal or on the job---and worked their way up the ranks to where they now own and operate restaurants. And, while Gordon Ramsey is a lot of things, he is not, nor ever has been, a Food Network celebrity.

Bht the basic point is: let's not confuse not liking somebody's style with whether or not they are entitled to be called chefs.

As to the competition shows; other than Iron Chef I never watch any of them. Like all "reality" shows they are scripted and the conclusion forgone. So I don't see any point to them. If you say the phrase "amateur chef" dominates in them I'll have to accept that. But it certainly doesn't appear anywhere else on FN.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

_Gordon Ramsay is a sellout

_I would surely love to know exactly what that means?


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## sharonm (Mar 21, 2010)

BillyB;

I'm with you all the way. There really isn't alot to measure when it comes to cooking (eyeball then taste). Baking however is a whole different
animal... /img/vbsmilies/smilies/bounce.gif


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

I also don't measure when I cook but when I bake I measure everything.  As it's been said here about rice... that I do measure but that's it.

I don't think anyone is an amateur chef... you are either a chef and you have gotten yourself to that place by either on the job learning or a mix of schooling and on the job learning, or you are a cook.  You can either be a home cook or a professional cook working your way through the ranks in hopes of one day being a chef. 

As for the food network I rarely watch it now that we have Food Network Canada and the shows are pitiful.  I did enjoy it back when it first started up but ever since Canada got its own FN I really don't like that channel at all.  I do watch Ramsay though, but only F-word and Kitchen NIghtmares.  I've never been a fan of Hell's Kitchen and honestly I think in part it gives people false perceptions of our profession, but that's just my opinion.


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## gunnar (Apr 3, 2008)

quick tip to help stop measuring rice (who's got time to pry the measuring cup away from the Pastry Chef?) Place rice in pot, even it out, position middle finger in upside down salute stance just touching the top layer of the rice. Fill with water gently till it reaches knuckle of first joint on middle finger maybe just a bit above. Was taught that by a Sushi guy getting tired of me measuring out 12 cups of water works out pretty well. Slight variance depending on type of rice.


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## charron (Feb 3, 2010)

Gunnar, does that work when making rice in hotel pans in the oven?


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Charron, it works no matter the size or shape of the pan.

A variation, which I learned from the Moosewood folks, is to pour your rice in the pot, level it, then add water to the same volume level. Pushing a finger through the rice is just an easy way of doing that. 

Basically, the ratio is that if you had, say, an inch of dry rice, then you'd cover it with an inch of water. 

Being naturally skeptical, I actually measured the water by straining it back out before cooking. Low and behold, the ratio of water to rice stays the same no matter the total volume.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

Thanks for the tip Gunnar!  I am going to give that a try!


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## mrchris (Mar 18, 2010)

[h2]chef[/h2]
 

-noun
1.
the chief cook, esp. in a restaurant or hotel, usually responsible for planning menus, ordering foodstuffs, overseeing food preparation, and supervising the kitchen staff.

2.
any cook.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

"chef" is French for "chief", and does NOT only apply to the culinary trades. 

"Chef" is THE BOSS!

"Sous Chef" is second in command

IMHO, that is...


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## coulis-o (Jan 23, 2010)

an amateur chef is an inexperienced/practicing chef or cook

a 'Chef' will be experienced and most probably qualified also.

thus a professional cook is a chef, and an amateur is the opposite = non-professional.


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## caterchef (Oct 12, 2009)

I think you need to pay a visit across the English Channel And check your definition for Chef.
There is no such term as inexperienced/practicing chef.
I'm not saying all Chefs act professionally but there are no amateur chefs only amateur cooks.
A professional cook is just that no more or no less, mostly because he wants it that way.
I would much rather work with a professional cook than a Chef who thinks he is professional.


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## coulis-o (Jan 23, 2010)

the definition of a Chef = a professional cook.


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## caterchef (Oct 12, 2009)

Coulis-o said:


> the definition of a Chef = a professional cook.


A *chef* is a person who cooks professionally. In a professional kitchen setting, the term is used only for the one person in charge of everyone else in the kitchen

_Chef de cuisine_, executive chef and head chef
This person is in charge of all things related to the kitchen which usually includes menu creation; management, scheduling and payroll of entire kitchen staff; ordering; and plating design. _Chef de cuisine_ is the traditional French term from which the English word chef comes, and is more common in European kitchens. _Executive chef_ is more common in England and the United States. _Head chef_ is often used to designate someone with the same duties as an executive chef, but there is usually someone in charge of them, possibly making the larger executive decisions such as direction of menu, final authority in staff management decisions, etc. This is often the case for chefs with several restaurants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chef


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

All the formal definitions are fine if your restaurant happens to be organized along the lines of the French brigade system; which is to say, in a military manner. But how many actually are? 

Rather than a strict definition one has to go with an extensional one. And I think most would agree that a chef is the man in charge of a professional kitchen which includes other cooks. 

When I was short-order cooking I was called a lot of things. But "chef" certainly wasn't one of them. And I'd have been shocked if anybody had done so. Sure, I was in charge---of a staff of one. 

The title Chef also connotes a certain level of training and experience. As with any other position, you can't start out at the bottom and be in charge tomorrow. Mostly you earn your chops. 

The head man is always addressed as Chef in a professional kitchen. There are several influences behind this. One, certainly, was the military-like structure of the French brigade. A Chef was like a General, and "hey, you," just doesn't show the deserved respect. In culinary schools, an instructor is always addressed as chef (why not? He's the man in charge of the classroom), and a lot of that just stays with you in the real world. The boss is always chef, and that's all there is to it. And, of course, the TV shows have emphasized that, so that now everybody confuses cooks with chefs.

There's a shorthand factor involved as well. It's a lot more efficient to say, "yes chef," than to say, "ok, George, I heard you and will do what you said I should do." 

All that aside, there is a certain amount of political correctness involved in these discussions. I know a lot of chefs, great ones and not so great ones, and everyday ones who work to see that their restaurants are the best they can be. And yet, very few of them really care what you call them. So long as you recognize that they are in charge, and show the appropriate respect, that's all that matters. I'm not saying they are not addressed as chef. But if somebody responded to an order by saying "gotcha," instead of "yes, chef," none of them would get their noses out of joint. 

On the other hand, those I know who make a big deal of the title tend to be less talented, less sure of themselves, less confident in their abilities. By insisting on the title, they reassure themselves that they have earned and deserve their position as head guy. 

Now, as to the question of amateur chefs. Certainly in the way it's been used on this thread there is no such thing as an amateur chef; that is to say, a non-professional cook who is addressed that way. But let's posit a scenario. Somebody decides that owning a restaurant would be just the way to spend their money, and hires their daughter---who's always been a pretty good cook---as the chef. IMO, that's an amateur chef. By all definitions she is a chef. She's in charge of the kitchen. She gets paid to do so. She'll be addressed as such by the staff. But she's way out of her league because the title was assigned, not earned. She lacks both the training and ability to run a commercial kitchen. But, by Gawd! she's in charge. 

If anybody watches Kitchen Nightmares or The F Word, they know that, unfortunately, there really are a lot of amateur chefs out there.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Coulis-o said:


> the definition of a Chef = a professional cook.


You will change your mind should you happen to be in charge of more than one kitchen.


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## caterchef (Oct 12, 2009)

Quote: KYHeirlomer
If anybody watches Kitchen Nightmares or The F Word, they know that, unfortunately, there really are a lot of amateur chefs out there.

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/mad.gif I have a problem putting the title " Chef " anywhere in those shows.
But I have a problem putting the title "Senator" or "Congressman" where they say I should.
Same with "Doctor" for professors with a PH.D or calling some CEO's "Mister."


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Remember, we're talking language not cooking.

I think the term "amateur chef" is meant to designate a homecook who's both passionate and skilled at cooking. Over the past few decades, the term "chef" has been expanded to mean nearly any professional cook. The term "amateur" is appended to "chef" to make the distinction.

The change in "chef" (in English) from "boss of the kitchen" to it's modern expanded meaning is common usage; and, to a large extent common usage rules. Like it or not, language is muatble; Take "hopefully," which despite common usage, hopefully you don't misuse.

Here are two very influential sources which don't quite agree, but illustrate the modern trend in the expansion of the meaning of the term:


> [Fr.; = 'head, chief'; used absolutely for chef d'office or chef de cuisine.]
> The man who presides over the kitchen of a large household; a head cook.
> 1842 Barham Ingol. Leg., St. Romwold, The chef's peace of mind was restored, And in due time a banquet was placed on the board.
> 1850 Thackeray Pendennis xxvii, The angry little chef of Sir Francis Clavering's culinary establishment.
> 1860 All Y. Round No. 74, 567 You have..finally decided on the menu with your chef.


_Oxford English Dictionary_ (unabridged), 2d ed., aka_ OED2_, 1989, on disk). And,


> 1 : a chief or head person - now used only in French phrases
> 2 [French, short for chef de cuisine head of the kitchen] a : a man skilled in food preparation who has charge of the kitchen and kitchen personnel in a large establishment (as a hotel or restaurant), planning menus, ordering foodstuffs, directing and assisting cooks, preparing special dishes b : COOK


_Merriam-Websters Unabridged Dictionary_ (2003), on disk; note especially the meaning at 2b.

BDL

PS. _Pendennis_ by Thackeray is actually pretty good. If you have any sort of affinity for early Victorian, early "psychological realism" literature, you should give it a try.


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## gypsy2727 (Mar 9, 2010)

I've never called anyone an amatuer Chef ....Chef in training or Apprentice is appropriate for those who have not written their Red Seal
here in Ontario it's 2 years of Cooks College and 6000 hours in a professional kitchen working under a Certified Red Seal Chef. You can move around while doing your apprentship and receive letters from various chefs on the amount of hours you've put in or stay with one Chef it's up to you. I'm not sure how these small places get away with hiring someone to Chef their kitchens with no papers as the guidelines from the Health and Safety Board are so strict here in Ontario.....


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Coulis-o said:


> the definition of a Chef = a professional cook.


I respectfully disagree. IMHO, in the culinary world, all "chefs" are professional cooks, but all "professional cooks" are NOT chefs!

A "chef" has skills well beyond "cooking" that include kitchen management, inventory control, personnel management, business management, business finance, marketing, and a host of other skills essential for the profitable operation of a food production facility.

A "professional cook" is one who prepares food for a living.

An "amateur cook" is one who prepares food because they enjoy it or have to to survive.

In a given kitchen, paraphrasing the Highlander, "There can be only one "chef"!"

Think "military" and substitute "general" for "chef".


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

CaterChef, it would seem from your last post that it isn't with language you have a problem, it's with authority. Don't dispair. Many of us suffer from the same problem.

By the by, "doctor" has nothing to do with medicine, per se. It connotes a certain level of training and education, and is a prefix for an entire title awarded by a jury of their peers. Thus, there are Doctors of Medicine, Doctors of Philosophy, Doctors of Jurisprudence, etc. In common usage it's mostly attached to those licensed to practice medicine. But the idea that a medical doctor is, somehow, morally superior or better trained than, say, a doctor of law, or doctor of astrophysics is just silly on the face of it.

_I have a problem putting the title " Chef " anywhere in those shows.
_
If so, then there are no chefs anywhere in the world. While their level of ability and professionalism may leave something to be desired they meet every criteria of being chefs. Look at any of the definitions posted on this thread and tell me where any of them doesn't fit.

Let's examine the most recent Kitchen Nightmare---the one involving a women in Boca Raton. I would be the first to agree that she's in the wrong business. But the fact is, she is top dog in her kitchen, she prepares food for sale, she orders supplies and equipment, she plans menu items, and she supervises a staff of other cooks.

How is she not a chef?


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

gypsy2727 said:


> ....Chef in training or Apprentice is appropriate for those who have not written their Red Seal
> here in Ontario it's 2 years of Cooks College and 6000 hours in a professional kitchen working under a Certified Red Seal Chef. You can move around while doing your apprentship and receive letters from various chefs on the amount of hours you've put in or stay with one Chef it's up to you. I'm not sure how these small places get away with hiring someone to Chef their kitchens with no papers as the guidelines from the Health and Safety Board are so strict here in Ontario.....


Ummmm..... several statements here make my hair stand up on end.

1) "Chef in training" makes me see red. A chef is the boss, the guy who hires and fires, the guy who hands out paycheques. Cook in training maybe.....

2) THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "CERTIFIED RED SCHPEIL CHEF" The "Red Schpeil" is a title for COOKS, not Chefs. If you don't believe me, look at the website. And the "Red Schpeil" in every CDN province, EXCEPT Alberta is comprised of 200 -odd multiple choice kweshtuns, THERE IS NO COOKING COMPONENT TO THIS FARCE. (except in Alberta) How on earth do you test a cook without observing him/her cooking? When the Canucks/Maple Leafs hold try-outs do they ask players to show up with equipment and go out on the ice, or do they give them a 200 question written test?

3) "...to Chef in their kitchens"..... Again, abusing the word Chef, this time it's used as a verb. Almost as good as "Chef's blend Dog food..... I believe the proper usage would be "To manage or run their kitchens"..... Again, the Red Schpeil focuses mainly on cooking kweshtuns, those who pass it may or may not have accounting skills, working knowledge of the Labour Board and Worker's Comp board, builing codes and eqipment knowledge, and a zillion other things that a "Chef" needs to know in order to run a succesfull kitchen.

4) Don't know about Ontario, but all you need to open up a place here in B.C. is money. Oh sure, you gotta pass the health inspection and you have to have a "foodsafe" certificate ($50/6 hr course) but that's it. There are no other qualifications.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

> . I'm not sure how these small places get away with hiring someone to Chef their kitchens with no papers as the guidelines from the Health and Safety Board are so strict here in Ontario.....


I have no papers, have never been to culinary school and I managed to "chef" the kitchen when I worked at the cafe. I have a sound knowlege of food safety and food handling practices as well as the requirements that public health has in place. What mattered to the cafe owners was not the papers I had but the quaity of food I produced and I have very high standards to what I will sell to customers. I'm not saying papers are not important but the quality of one's work also needs to be considered when hiring a chef and the people doing the hiring need to have a firm idea in their mind as to what they want from a chef and hire accordingly.


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## gypsy2727 (Mar 9, 2010)

Wow I think it's great that you guys a digesting my thread in so many ways
In Ontario as I said before you have to COOK in a kitchen for 6000 hours under a Red Seal Chef before you can write your exam

For the local Mom & Pop shops I guess they have high standards of their own...... still the food handling aspect is a question
everyone is a "COOK" in my experiance. Some I guess with no formal training can do the job.....
I am only speaking from my 30 years in the business ...no offence intended


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

The thing to realize, Gypsy, is that in most of the world---even other parts of Canada---there is no certification program that earns you the title Chef. Indeed, if certification were more common, and more widely accepted, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. A chef would be anyone who is certified as such. 

Personally, I have mixed feelings about any certification system that only has one path. For instance, assuming a 10-hour workday, your 6,000 hours amounts to less than two years in a kitchen. Why shouldn't, say, completion of a degree course at a culinary school be comparable? Or apprenticing at a recognized facility?

I have to wonder, too, if Red Seal isn't a way of limiting entry into the field, the way the AMA limits doctors. After all, how many current Red Seal chefs are there ready to take on numbers of apprentices? If I can't get a job in one of those restaurants then there's no hope for me to succeed in my choosen career.


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## gypsy2727 (Mar 9, 2010)

I agree with much of what your saying Heirloomer

It's a two year program at the various cooking colleges which teaches you the food-costing , purchasing ,receiving, safe food handling,
the basic fundumentals of  Sauces, Butchery, Filleting fish , Pastry, Gardemanger, well you get the idea.....whilst attending school the majority of these student have jobs in professional kitchens...being hands on to ask the real practical questions they are learning in school ...I truly beleive in hands -on when in comes to cooking. Then you get out do the rest of your apprentiship and write the exam
It is 150 multiple choice questions which seems a little Mickey Mouse to me actually, but..... it is what it is
I hire on references and experiance myself....I don't care how many papers you have, experiance says it all
I do agree Heirloomer that most parts of the world do not have these programs but Ontario is a highly populated multi-cultural Province with a High standard for education so I guess they can be as anal as they want to be


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## gypsy2727 (Mar 9, 2010)

Oh I forgot to add Heirloomer 
we are short of apprentices  all over Ontario!
Too many a Cheifs not enough Braves     eeeeek!


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

Gypsy I have to agree with you on the shortage of apprentices in this province.  Not only in the culinary field but in other areas as well.  I have two teens in high school now and the ads for apprenticeships are all over the guidance office.   Kids aren't leaning towards the trades anymore... they're all high tech with computers and things.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Gypsy, are you sure it's only 6000 hours in Ontario?  Here in B.C. it's over 80000.

See, what really gets me worked up is that ther are two ways to write the "Red Schpeil".:

One is to do an apprenticeship and then answer the 200-odd mulitple choice kweshtuns.
 
The second way is to work for a few years, and then "Challange' the test.  Couple of girls from Wendy's( the burger chain) did this a few years back in--of all places--the province of Ontario and got their "Red Seal" title.

Here in B.C. it costs $100 to write the test--either by "challanging" or with a completed apprenticeship.  If you flunk the first time you get a second chance--after that--game over.

Every Province has different requirements for the "Red Schpeil":   6,000 hrs for Ont., 8,100 for B.C. a separate cooking component for Alberta.....You get the message:  So much for a national standard........

Every now and then you'll see posters on this site and other Cooking sites begging for information about the mysterious "Red Schpeil":  What questions are asked, what textbooks to study, etc..  These are the "challangers" and they make up over 75% of the "Red Schpeil" ticket holders.  

Working under a "Red Seal" Chef in a big national Hotel doesn't mean much, as very rarely will an executive Chef actually take an interest in the employee, the employee learns from the Sous, Chef de parties, and other co-workers.  These employees may or may not have any paper qualifications.  Hyatt hotels don't like fresh eggs, just don't have them, haven't had any since the early '90's.  Something about a law-suit, I was told....... 

Once again, anyone can take the title "Chef", just as anyone can take the title "professional photographer". "Red seal" is a qualification for a COOK.   There is no national standard in Canada for Cooks or Chefs, each and every culinary school has a different curriculum, heck they can't even agree on a common textbook, each Province has different requirements to write a "Red Schpieil".  The Unions are as useless as mammary glands on a stud-bull, and the schools are pumping out "Chefs" in as little as 3 mths.


Welcome to reality..........


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## n0z1e (Mar 31, 2010)

surely the term amature chef reffers to the fact they are not a chef by profession but are a chef for fun? a  professional is someone who is a chef for a carree or job no?

i still love telling people what i do altho where i work may be ify iam proud to be a chef of sort may it be a demi or hopefully next week a cdp iam proud


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## gypsy2727 (Mar 9, 2010)

foodpump said:


> Gypsy, are you sure it's only 6000 hours in Ontario? Here in B.C. it's over 80000.
> 
> See, what really gets me worked up is that ther are two ways to write the "Red Schpeil".:
> 
> ...


LOL ....thanks for the entertainment! Those comments are really funny ...no really hahahaha
Welcome to Ontario.......


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## pchefjo (Apr 5, 2009)

Personally I haven't heard the term "amateur chef" and over the last few decades I've always heard "passionate about food home cooks" referred to as "gourmet cooks" or something like that.

On the other hand, what annoys the ---- out of me is when food stores like Central Market, Wholefoods and Eatzis - stores that sell pre-made ready-to-eat at home restaurant quality food refer to their employees as chefs!!!  As if all 20 or so people in the kitchen are a chef!!  It perpetuates the idea to the public that anyone in a chefs coat IS a chef - could you imagine the payroll??  

Of course the culinary schools are right there with them.  I've heard a local school in my area was sending fresh grads to high end hotels for sous chef positions when they have no experience other then school!!!  Why are they setting the students up to fail?  But that's another topic.


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## caterchef (Oct 12, 2009)

That was my point, we don't have amateur presidents or amateur congressmen {or do we}
You can't go to school to learn to become a Chef, Oh, you can learn to read recipes, make out schedules, prep sheets and take inventory and figure food costs but to become a Chef, well, that may take years for some. And some may never make it because that is a title you earn by being successful, and there are no unsuccessful Chefs, only cooks that never made the grade. I have too many mentors to be thankful for to ever think differently.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

I agree with Chef Billy. I have not measured anything in over 30 years. Baking , thats another story since it is a chemical balance of sorts one must measure . As far as Amateur Chef ? never used the term to describe anyone.One can be an assistant chef, or aspiring chef  or wish I was a chef in my book and thats it. One you are classified chef you are Chief or in charge . One can't be amateur to do this. Remember it's not only the cooking, it's the planning, purchasing, specs, concept, scheduling and a whole lot more, it all must come together.Ramsay earned his toque. The guy who encompasses it all is Chef Robert on Dinner impossible. Again all this is strictly my opinion


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

_That was my point, we don't have amateur presidents or amateur congressmen {or do we}

_Bad analogy, CaterChef.

There is a clear cut job description of what a chef is, and a fairly clear career path that gets you there.

The same cannot be said about either the presidency or congress. There are no clear criterium for aspiring to those jobs. Anybody can run for those offices, and achieve them. And, once you achieve them, it's pretty much on-the-job training.

So, in a sense, both the President and all member of congress can be said to be amateurs.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

My dad always said, "all you ned to be a politician is the ability to get elected"........


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Senator Sam Ervin always insisted there are only three rules for being a politician:

1. Get elected.
2. Get reelected.
3. Don't get mad, get even. 

In other words, Foodpump, your dad was 100% correct. And, my point above, getting elected has nothing to do with one's ability to do the job.


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## garysam (Aug 18, 2013)

I agree, but that makes the term "Professional Chef" a bit redundant, doesn't it? "Chef" is a vocation, not a qualification.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

IMHO, _chef_ is a title for a manager, cooking is a vocation for cooks..


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

I am frequently a chef by title and responsibilities.

I am always a cook, even when titled chef.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

n0z1e said:


> surely the term amature chef reffers to the fact they are not a chef by profession but are a chef for fun? a professional is someone who is a chef for a carree or job no?
> 
> i still love telling people what i do altho where i work may be ify iam proud to be a chef of sort may it be a demi or hopefully next week a cdp iam proud


chef for fun?

you mean "cook".


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