# Sugar Class



## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Just finished three days with Ewald Notter. Still floating! Non stop! WOW!
Pan


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## erik (Jan 23, 2006)

PAN!

How dare you post without giving us more details!! 

No, wait, nevermind. Right now you must feel like this:crazy: :roll:  

You are forgiven


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i5...s/IMG_0175.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i5...s/IMG_0179.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i5...s/IMG_0197.jpg
some of my daily projects
conch shell not mine, Ewalds


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

Very, very nice! I imagine you can do the conch with no problem. I used to love making lobsters!


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

Well to bad I will never get that good. I make a rose it weighs 20 pounds whats with that? Maybe I should just stick to the tech stuff.

Rgds Rook


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

Really nice work Pan....Very clean and nice detail.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Not taking any credit, we had a class of 12 very talented people. I will post a few at a time as I save them to photobucket.
Chrose, had never done the conch. did a cool starfish. I've grown to like the isomalt.. have you done the sugar formed as though it was going on a pump and put granulated inside and kneed. It has a texture of a shell or starfish. Then you airbrush and dip and glaze into the isomalt.
The rocks were nice. We did a lot of straw sugar, anyone familiar?



Took a couple of my broken pieces and reworked them for a little fun:lol: 

I made him laugh 20 yrs. ago and still got it.

have more fish coming.
Rook, Didn't forget ya.
actually talked to Ewald about you and your interest just over the internet. Ewald signed one of his old books for you, so PM me your address. I spelled your name without an e at the end, right?
Says hi to Chrose, but he really only remembers faces.


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## jessiquina (Nov 4, 2005)

oh man, his name should be Ewald Hotter! :blush:

and that is some loverly sugar work! nice job!!!!


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

Yow!!! Good stuff, Panini!!!


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

Pan address is in your PM box man.And thanks a lot! Man what a deal! Great! I would have given anything to be there but the green stuff just holds me back a little.

Rgds Rook.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

fish before airbrush and accents


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## m brown (May 29, 1999)

Really loverly stuff!
And that kitchen is pristeen!
Very inspiring work Pannini,
congrats!
:bounce:


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

The class was held in a culinary school. Pretty nice.

I will also give some tips as I remember or look at my notes.
Great Bubble Sugar ..Papercon Black. sheet papper. Crumple it tight into a ball, spread it out and pour a 3" strip across, lift the papper an the bubble sugar is great.

Bring up isomalt as fast as you can so as not to lose shine. We brought it up like rissoto,

figuring how tall to make display, according to base, is simple architectual formula. Lenght Times Width, Divided By Two, Times one point Six.

We were pulling at 320F and casting at 340F

Rose petals put on as follows, turned inside, 3 p, 3p, 3p, 4p, 4p, 4p, 6p to finish


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

Pan check your PM & E-mail!

Rgds Rook


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## m brown (May 29, 1999)

Pan, I was hoping that was your shop!
See you next month!:bounce:


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

:lol: :lol: 
My shop is 1000sq ft total. That includes front and back. We'll have to go outside for coffee I'm really looking forward to meeting you. Hopefully we'll have a cold front move through and move the mercury down below a 100.


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## erik (Jan 23, 2006)

It's been a long day so this is not as clear as it should be. You are refering to temperature?


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

Erik, yeah, thats what Pan is refering to temperature. 

Rgds Rook


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Sorry Erik,
We put the crystals in a pan and added some water, put it on the heat and then added water in stages as risotto.It actually looked like rice, that is why I made the risotto reference. There was an Italian Chef there Gianni, and we said risotto at the same time.`There is no specific number when your boiling. Larger batches we split in two to expedite boil.


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

Pan what was your ratio of isomalt to water? Did Ewald use regular tap water or did he use bottled water?

Rgds Rook


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

we used regulat tap water. We were never that exact on measuring. The first day was really humid and took a long time to boil so we used less h2o. The opposite on the third day.
This is my pastry chef Juan putting together some fish.

The largew bubble shapes in the back plare were silicone molds Ewald made himself using marzipan as a positive.


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

Boy those are nice warming boxes in the background there and I bet they are light to and easy to move. I messed up and made mine out of plywood and that thing is as heavy as a tank! Pan did Ewald give specifics on humidity? Like what the perfect humidity would be? Heck how do you measure that stuff anyway?

Rgds Rook


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## cookiejar (Feb 13, 2006)

I'm so excited to hear from someone who took the class. I'm signed up to go to his place in Fl in September. I'm taking the two classes back to back...am I crazy or what? I hope I'll be half as good as you, but I've never worked with the stuff so I might be dreaming.


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

Why did you add water in stages?

Hey rook, those boxes are on chefrubber.com. I have one. It's a great investment, but expensive.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Momo,
We brought it up in stages to shorten the cooking time. If we dumped all the water in at once, it would take longer to boil. Great question, did not put that in.

I built our station a while back for 60.

pan
The top has an X cut out so the lamps move in just about any position. Also, a great idea I got from Rook, I put the lamps on a dimmer switch. Great idea!!!


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

But what's the ratio of isomalt to water? I've got some that I've been fooling around with, but I just melt it straight. Don't have that much time, but it's great for clear sheets framed around almond croquant that I write specialty cake inscriptions on.


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

foodpump it depends, its generally 3 to 1, 3 parts isomalt to 1 part water does not sound to me like Ewald was using any particular ratio but then agian when you have his experience and talent guess you don't need too.

Rgds Rook


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## erik (Jan 23, 2006)

I've also just always brought it up dry.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Oh, you can certainly bring it up dry, you're going to eveporate the water anyway.
We were probably using 1000g to 300gr. The most important thing I brought away from the class is there is no exacts with isomalt. Every kitchen or production place is different and you have to adjust accordingly.


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## scafourek (Jun 26, 2006)

Chef Jeff, Thank you SO much for attending. I am looking forward to helping you anyway I can. Thanks again. Call if you need anything- GREAT PICTURES by the way. Also, LOVE the website!!


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

What about me?????????????????????

Rgds Rook


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Rook,
What are you talking about now? This is the gentleman who arranged for Ewald to come to Dallas. He is also the person who guarantees me 2 spots in the Chocolate class in November 
Shannon, I'm glad you found ChefTalk. And thank you very much again for the class and the wonderful lunches. Looking forward to seeing you at the shop.
Remember to read the ChefTalk guidelines. Introduce yourself in the welcome forum. No selling/spaming on this forum. Remember, most of the chefs in the professional boards treat all reps with the same love:lol: 
Please hang around and enjoy the forum.
pan


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

Well anyone that knows Ewald is a good friend of mine.Welcome to Cheftalk! Just kidding Pan. What about no I better not ask that...

Rgds Rook


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

By the way before I forget...(Whoops too late! ) Yes Jeff, adding sugar was one of the things we did wayyy.... back when to add that texture to the starfish and other shells.

And hey, do these look familiar?









Here too is a lobster and a horse, lousy pics, I need to scan better.


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

Cool lobster!


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Chrose,
That is really nice work, I can see the Notter infuence in the faces.
pan


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## ducky (Dec 28, 2003)

Very, very cool! Beautiful photos! Thank you so much for sharing.


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

Nice work Ch.

Rgds Rook.

Oh and yours was to Pan hope I get that good one day.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Chrose. were you using isomalt?


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

No. In fact to show you how long ago this was Ewald was just starting to experiment with isomalt. At the time it was a new product. I hope I did not come off as trying to hijack the thread with a couple of my pics. I thought I was just showing the similarities between then and now. Your work is outstanding! (Am I just being paranoid? ) But I would like to get a better shot of the lobster. I have a few pics of different ones, they are the most fun to do I thought. Especially the coloring of them.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

very paranoid! did you for forget who you were talking to?
I knew it was about the time that isomalt was getting know. I never added granulated to boiled sugar, I was just curious. 

I can't believe you turned this post into a Chrose post! hijacked!! You know how fragile I am break out some of the good stuff and post it 
pan


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

Yeah Ch break out the big guns and let er rip my man!

Rgds Rook


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

I know..... :blush: I'm sorry......:look: 
All my pics are on..are you ready for this....paper nothing electronic. I tried scanning and did a poor job. I hope to get around to it soon and post some of the better stuff. Still can't touch you and Michelle (so to be speaking) but it's okay.


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

Thanks my man you came through just like you promised appreciate that. That tip worked great!!!!!!!!!!!!:bounce: 

Rgds Rook


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

[/IMG]

Well since everyone is throwing in the gauntlet here is one of my earlier blown sugar swans real early!

Rgds Rook


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

Not bad Rook, not bad at all! Fun stuff huh?


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

Heres another very early pic of a cast sugar rooster. Body parts were cast separate then glued together with hot sugar. Sorry these things are so large using photobucket and have not figured out how to reduce them yet.Nicko if its eating up to much bandwidth delete them.

[/IMG]


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Rook,
With all due respect, you need to give yourself more credit.
You have obviously learned about sugar. Man, you're there!!!!. As you do more and more you get better and better.
You have self taught yourself, that's great!! 
One thing I did not mention!
The 12 folks I took that class with were no strangers to sugar. We had Exec. Pastry chefs from SanAntonio, A CEPC. My new friend Gianni is Exec. Pastry chef at the Cressent Court 4 stars, etc. Everyone is presently making a living in the industry. Rook, you know enough to take the class. I would really like you to find time to visit, I think we would have a great time playing. 
Some from the class have already gotten together to play but it turned into a session talking about the industry and trying everyones bottle of wine.
Please keep up with it, I'll keep my eye open for something in your area where I can travel and maybe visit.
jeff


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

Thanks Pan but I still have a long way to go to get to where everyone else is. Those were basically my first 2 pieces I ever did. I am really going to try something over the top tommorrow I am going to try the stork in Ewalds book that ought to be a trick if I can pull it off. Figure if I set my standards at Ewalds level I will get there sooner or later and his sugar work has a high,high,high standard level.

Rgds Rook


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

Rook you might appreciate this then. When Ewald was younger he worked at Sprungli in I think Zurich. Among the things he was learning was of course some basic sugar work. After work he had a small apartment and practiced his sugar off of a hot plate. No blow dryers, no silpats or marble tables, no heat lamps etc.
And look what he became. Off course a tremendous amount of innate talent doesn't hurt either!


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

Yeah,talent I don't have yet but I am working on it.

Rgds Rook


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

Pan, who is the guy in the picture to the right. He really looks familiar to me. I'm sure it's only because of the angle, and it's highly unlikely I know him, but he really does look like, maybe Lyndon Virkler? Is that who I'm thinking of????? I'm not sure.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

CH,
Not sure, I know he had a Dutch name and was from New Jersey.
pan


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

Ahhh...must be Hans from Hackensack! :smiles:


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## lotuscakestudio (Jun 28, 2001)

Hey Jeff! Good work! 

I just took the same class a few weeks ago when he was here in Philly! I still have to upload my pics. I had been very, very sick up until the day before classes started so I wasn't used to walking, much less being on my feet for 8 hours. It came through in my work and my fish and snowman have depressed faces on them. Looking back, I think it's kinda funny. Hehehe.


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## vitrification (Jul 28, 2006)

hello, i blow glass, and would like to try out blown sugar, as its alot less expensive and looks just as hard and fun,

everyone online seems to be pouring and pulling the sugar before blowing it, would it be possible to dip a glass or metal tube into the pot of molten sugar and by constant turning keep the sugar on the rod, (like keeping honey on spoon by turning) seems like the pulling is a waste of heat, even though i work with hot glass (2100 deg f) i dont have any real desire to touch the sugar or manipulate it with my fingers, so unless the sugar needs to be pulled and cooled in this traditional way, i would rather skip it and work the hot sugar on a pipe, using marble or other cool surface to create a skin on the sugar, and gathering up sucessive layers of molten sugar ontop of thicker bubbles of cool sugar on the rod

is this way of working sugar pure fantasy?

matt mccormack- columbus ohio


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

pulling sugar is incorporating air into it thats what gives it that silky sheen as far as your question goes probable pure fantasy. If you are not willing to get your fingers into it you might want to stick to glass blowing. Casting sugar might be more down your alley but I will let someone else handle that question.

Rgds Rook


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

Matt I can only give you an opinion as I have no experience with glass blowing. Maybe someone here does and can give you a better answer. However without knowing the properties of glass and how it might relate to your glass it would be hard to give an accurate answer. I can tell you though that part of the reason we work with sugar the way we do is for one it's is hydroscopic and will suck up water in a an instant which will wreak havoc with the stability. Also sugar being a liquid based crystal is inherently weaker than glass which is based on a mineral. Glass you can blow air into with your lungs. Sugar you must use a hand pump because air from your lungs contain moisture and will ruin the sugar.
As Rook said you pull air into the sugar so the cooling crystal edges will reflect light. Glass's clearness is its beauty and adding color to it enhances it's beauty but retains its crystalline look.
Adding layers of sugar on top of sugar in the manner you speak will not work because as each layer of sugar goes on it melts the layer it touches and that will create microscopic air bubbles and impurities that will eventually cloud the sugar.

Does this help at all? 

Jeff anything better to add here?
Funny thing is I have always wanted to try my hand at learning to blow glass and see if I could incorporate any sugar techniques into it.


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## vitrification (Jul 28, 2006)

so the pulling is for aesthetic purposes? not a step to chemicaly align the crystals so they can be blown? and as to gathering over it, sounds like it could work, impurities aside. its not so much that i dont want to touch it, as i imagine that touching it would be harder to maintain even wall thickness than rolling it on a flat surface, thats the marver in glass, a steel table that the glass is cooled and shaped on, the marver puts a cool skin on the glass so it can be blown, otherwise it tends to pop like bubble gum. once the first gather is taken in glass, is shaped and air introduced into it, and cooled, until the point where it is almost cold (1000 deg f) another gather of glass is taken over it, the heat from the glass in the furnace (2100 deg f) soaks into the first gather allowing the whole bubble to be blown. if the glass is gathered when the starter bubble is too hot, or the walls too thin, the bubble might collapse in the heat from the fresh gather. but if the wall is thick enough, and cold enough, the bubble will be intact, and very large pieces can be made


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## chefguyfla (Jul 8, 2006)

I had the pleasure of taking is class when he was in Gaithisburg, MD yeras ago and has become a pretty good friend over the years. Glad he's in Orlando and hopefully this fall I'll be signing up for chocolate. Anyone interested? Drop me a line at [email protected]


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

That is correct. And after reading your description of how the glass is gathered I think I see the fundamental difference here. First off the idea of the marver is the same principle as what we use a blow dryer and marble table for. And that is to help to even out the temperature for blowing purposes. With sugar too, if it is too hot on one side or conversely too cool on one side the sugar will not blow evenly and you will have a blow out on one side or uneven thickness which will put the piece out of whack as well.
But we work in temperatures in the 200ºF range which I think has less room for temperature flucuations than glass does.
When we blow a piece of sugar we work it into a ball to drop and, even out the temperature. This also helps to ensure the eveness of what we're blowing. The primary difference that I see is simply the fact that you can't do that with glass, but we can with sugar. So I don't really think it has anything to do with any major differences in the mediums, but mostly in the fact of what can safely be handled. I imagine that if you could work with glass at 245ºF and blow it, you would.


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## vitrification (Jul 28, 2006)

we use several sheets of wet newspaper folded into a pad that is used to cool and shape the glass, does handeling the sugar with your hands also cool down certain areas?

in glass, dipping and blowing is possible for many interesting effects, a larger bubble is only partialy dipped into the molten glass, and then, after a skin is formed on that new hot portion, the glass is blown, and the hot section can be pulled into legs or horns, or whatever.

you are using propane in the torches correct?


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Matt,
This is so interesting that I haven't posted. I'm trying to think it through. I believe the cooling and heating process is sooo much slower with sufar then glass. Although, decades ago, I did play with Peter Boil, and we did fool around with boiled sugar and blowing with the glass-blowing mouthpieces and tubes witch allowed the piece to be rotated and cupped (chilled supreme dish) with brass swivel conections.
I'm thinking that isomalt will be more forgiving and can lend some pseudo properties of glass.
pan


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

Propane in torches is correct you need a clean burning gas. Handling the sugar with your hands does keep it warm running your hands over the sugar while blowing, sugar will create hot spots and cold spots has it is blown, if hot spots are created while blowing the sugar will get thin in places and evenually burst. My cure for this is while blowing I keep the sugar turning in front of a hair dryer with a cool air setting while running my hand over it I have found that I can blow it easier and its less prone to hot spots. I have had trouble in the past controlling these but have found this technique to be effective in the last few pieces that I have done.

Rgds Rook


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