# Re. Buffet or Sit Down Dinner????



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Many of you are doing banquet catering to groups of 100 or more. I notice a lot of Buffets. 
Which do you think more profitable, or easier a Buffet or a Full Service Sit Down Dinner.??
Give this some thought.:chef:


----------



## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

For me, there is no difference in "profitability" as I price by adding my "expected profit" to the actual costs involved. Of course, buffet is generally less cost to the client because of reduced labor requirements

Buffet is "easier" but sit-down allows for more "WOW", IMHO.


----------



## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

Same profit on both because you offer more food than labor on a Buffet . A buffet doesn't take as much experienced people. A sitdown needs experienced wait staff and people helping to serve and plate............Bill


----------



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

I agree 100%. Only bad part is that on sit down you have total control of food consumption, buffet sometime is crapshoot, but as you say buffet is labor saving.


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

I prefer buffet for entree, plated desserts


----------



## kosher (Oct 5, 2009)

I prefer Full Service Sit Down Dinner to Buffet Dinner as it provide me more control over the arrangements at the party. Also people don't waste much food in Full Service Sit Down Dinner.


----------



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

I tend to agree with you , years ago I would not have. Food is so expensive today, that to have to supply unlimited is almost impossible to control. In these economic times when people go to buffet ,they tend to take more and even take it home so to save on their next household meal. At a buffet, labor cost I can control/ food is harder, and food cost today sometime figures equal to labor cost especially in catering.:chef:


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Depends on the site, depends on the number of guests, depends on staff......lots o' depends. Some of my contracts specify amounts, ie....1.25 cocktail sandwiches pp, 2 skewers pp, etc. No specifications on crudites.....

So many of my parties are heavy aps, many times finger food.

Small dinner parties under 20, plated sure. But larger ones I still go for buffets, stationary & passed hodos...


----------



## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

Same profit no matter which way I look at it.

A full service sit down dinner allows for control over the menu and portion size and will help my profit margin provided I do not go over budget. 
Buffet, too many variables. 




Petals


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

P & C, would you mind elaborating on which variables a buffet has that would make plate more desirable?


----------



## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

Hello There,

I can only go by my own experince. What works for one may not work for another. I have catered for large weddings (200-600), conferences (800 plus) etc...but only because I was asked to. 
Catering is *your* M*ain Forte*, something I cannot do. I simply applaud you when I read about all the work you do. Supply and demand at a buffet for 400 requires an acute foregleam of all the "work and details".

Can I say that I am more in my comfort zone , deciding what amount of people I must plate for in a day, wheather it be 120 or 30, or "Wherever" my clients are ?

My clientele demand french cuisine , I cater to that.

My accalades go to you, because you can do large scale buffets, I on the other hand, plate.
Forgive me if I said something to upset you, that was not my intention.

"I am just a button mushroom among some pretty giant Portobello's."


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

No offense, just wanted to expand the conversation and have info for newbies to go on. 
So are you onsite? There are few venues in STL that have equipment to manage a plated meal for several hundred.


----------



## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

I spend one part of the day (early 4:00 am where I plan the day, the menu and the staff) at an estate. I have what you would call as seen on the Food network, Mission Impossible. I live with a laptop ...I go nowhere without it, always in the kitchen , where I am right now.

I only get a weeks notice to plan and prepare for and I get two answers out right away, how many guests and what taste ? 

The other gendre is catering to private parties (50-150)

I have learned that the money is in the details.

Petals


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

would you mind elaborating on "details"? TIA


----------



## rivver (May 13, 2009)

Buffet for sure, but I say that because I am the only one in the kitchen. Last month I had to do a event for a murder mystery dinner event. 120 guest and it was sit down. Two entree choices, salad, dessert all by myself. Yuck, so yea buffet till I get hire people lol


----------



## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Ah, but "on reflection", there are three choises: "chow line", buffet, and plated.


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

chow line?!!!


----------



## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Yeah!

Makes it tough when a majority of one's competitors offer "chow line" buffets at $8-10//person, you know, similar to soup kitchen or mess hall service.


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

been there done that.....lunch for 200, profit was still there.


----------



## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Yup, for 200 is one thing, for 20 is another!


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Some chow lines are way more lucrative than more formal events....guest count!


----------



## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Absolutely!

$/person TIMES # of persons = gross revenue (that should be obvious to all), as long as there is a large enough "paid head count" you win, the problem that surfaces, when quoting $/person and NOT specifying a minimum head count, is when you quote $x/person for 200 and the client then reduces the head count to 50 or even 20 and expects the same $x/person.

When I quote $/person, which is RARELY, I also include a minimum total $$$ amount.


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

that's a very very short learning curve.....some caterers have the same price irrespective of the # of people. That does not work when you have an informal event. 

Many in our area have 25 guest minimum. 

It needs to be a mutually acceptable deal to work.....

What has worked for us:
250-300 guests $xyzpp
200-249 guests $eghpp
etc.
Don't be surprised with this one if they come back with 250 to get a lower pp price, make sure the math works.

or for $$$ we will provide food & staff for up to 200 guests, everyone over 201 is $$$pp 

Does this make sense?


----------



## billrchef (Oct 11, 2009)

this question is more of a math problem than one of opinion. 
The first question is," what is the budget of client?" usually the higher the per person budget the more you`d lean to a beautiful plate presentation.
next question would be how many options of entre do they want? more options/ selections typicaly ups the price of a buffetbecause of portion percentages, and the "crap shoot" of whitch item will be most selected by their guests.
Next is the "back of the house"study between food cost and labor cost. Buffets use more food while sit down events use more service labor ( but if you schedual the service labor smartly you can slow these costs down too). 
The whole trick is to simply "do the math". If you keep your combined food and labor cost to 52-57% you`l make good profit.


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

It also comes down to what size operation you have....if you have people on salary or staff waiting to work it's very different than being a small operation with hired help hired as necessary.


----------



## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Assuming the guest list is small enough, the kitchen large enough, and the budget sufficient, sit down -- regular, "silver-spoon," and/or "family-style" -- is more fun. Or, at least was for me. 

What can I say? I liked putting out a nice plate.



BDL
___________
Ex owner operator Predominantly French catering; ex cook at a couple of decent joints


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

:roll:yep ditto


----------



## caterchef (Oct 12, 2009)

:thumb:A Buffet is alot less hassle, time management is better.
Once I served 5,500 and they had to be served in 30 minutes, (it was a convention)
It would have been almost impossible to do plate service.
It was difficult enough to find enough waiters to serve coffee.


----------



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

In NY in on premise catering( multi room,) each room has a minimum guarantee. Lets say the Holiday Room minimum is 150 guest , therefore 150 times $20.00=$3000.00 Revenue. If you have 130 guest its $3000.00 divided by 130 guest, it's 23.25 per guest. The room minimum revenue is still $3000.00.


----------



## hollyinportland (Feb 7, 2010)

How about a family style service?


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

not happening around here.


----------



## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

It's a question of taste -- not only the guests' but the caterer's as well. I never had any interest in catering for more than 50 or so. I'd do it for an established client, if that's what she wanted; but there were certainly people who were better suited to it. 

The idea of doing 5,500 people in a half an hour is way too much like work.

BDL


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

5500, that is a HUGE number......
I prefer 150-300.


----------



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

BDL 
Look at it this way if you only make a profit of $5.00 pp after everything said and done you pocket $27500.00 not bad .How many of these do you have to do in a year? You dont have to be great, you just have to be nuts!


----------



## billrchef (Oct 11, 2009)

family style service has the same "all-you-can-eat" issues as a buffet, along with the higher cost of srevers bring food to the table. With plated meals YOU control portion and plate costs effectively. no matter whitch way you go your contract needs to break down price per person by the number of gaurenteed guests (IE 10~50=$A, 50~100=$B, 100~200=$C...and so on). usually one can produce more volume with less labor% dollars and be more porfitable. the lower the count, the higher the price.


----------



## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Money's nice; but for me it was all about the look on their faces after the first taste. I just couldn't do that in large volume. I think _you know_ that one of the many things I respect about you is that _I know_ you can. Ditto shroom.

BDL


----------



## hollyinportland (Feb 7, 2010)

WRONG about family-style.

At a buffet people assume that there is an endless supply of food. 

Just like at a Thanksgiving dinner at home, people know that the 8 peices of chicken are for the 8 people at the table. It works every time. People are sharing the food. (of course you need to choose a caterer who will plan and charge for the right about to begin with).


----------



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

You are quite right . To me every bride looked the same, every face the same. My kick was after it was all over asking myself " How the (H ) did we pull that off". I started out doing the little fancy ones ,but somehow got roped into doing these big gigs. I think because no one else wanted to do them or they new better. Example Valentines eve We have 600 Valentines day 300 Valentine Monday Ladies lunch 500 Chicken Crepes all scratch. This is my last year, I said this before but this time I mean it" Enough Already."
P/S when I was in NY we did on premise, 5 Bar Mitz. Sat Am/ 2 Bar mitz 4 weddings Sat pm. Sun am 4 Bar mitz 2 weddings Sun Pm 6 weddings. We had 7 ballrooms. Each held at least 150. It was like coordinating a 3 ring circus every weekend.


----------



## cascadecatering (Feb 10, 2010)

I do a lot of both, plated and buffet, depending on the facilities, budget, client's perceptions and wants. For the budget jobs, we often do a "plattered" service.

Plattered service, is where we platter the allowed food for each table, on a shared platter. The patrons then pass the platter around amongst themselves. We do have to allow for a little more food than for a plated service, but much less than a stand up buffet.

We can run this for 100 guests, with about 2 chefs, and 4-6 waiters, who will also refill drinks to the table, rather than to each individual. Depending on the number of guests, we can generally run this at a cost of about AUD$50 per person, for 3 courses.


----------



## cascadecatering (Feb 10, 2010)

We've done some gigs for up to 5000 people. The only way to run this effectively, was to do a plattered service, as I described earlier, and placing bowls of salad on each table immediately prior to the main.

We also had to run it out of 4 different satellite kitchens, to get the food out in 30 minutes. Each kitchen had radios for communication, a head chef and kitchen hands etc..

For this volume, we had to buy most of the food in pre-made, we simply didn't have the facilities to make and store that volume.

My key philosophy then was: 
"stress early, and avoid the rush later"


----------

