# Those in the Cake Business...



## ashleyluvscake (Jul 10, 2007)

Hello there,

I am VERY VERY interested in becoming a cake designer and having my own special occassion cake business. This is my passion and I am ready to full force persue it. 

Recently I decided to go to the Le Cordon Bleu school in pasadena. I told the admissions director of my dream and she said it would be the place for me. I would also get the full culinary education sauces, saniation, butchering ect. I would like to have this education but at 48k I would like to know if this is really the best way to get into doing what I love. 

For those of you who are working as Pastry Chefs doing wedding cakes and such would you recommend going to the Culinary school I signed up for or what? How did you do it? 

Thank you for your advice!


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Um...
Best thing to do is do some grunt work and work in a typical bakery, nothing fancy, just a good bakery that puts out an honest product. 

Work and watch, what are the techniques used, the ingredients, the equipment, the suppliers? What are typical staff capable of? What shouldn't they be doing? What kind and how much product an the bakery put out? Is it enough to cover costs?

Now for some nasty dirty words: Overhead, salaries, book keeping.

Now for some loaded topics: Customers, customers, customers, advertising, and promotions.

If your chosen school can cover the areas I just mentioned, then by all means take the schooling. If it can't deliver, than I suggest to work in a few places and start to cherry-pick specific classes at a local C.College or trade school that you think will be useful.


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## ashleyluvscake (Jul 10, 2007)

Thank you for your advice. I have thought about going to some cake shops and asking them to work with them but I am worried about my lack of experience and knowledge as well as I want to learn decorating technique. My idol is Colette Peters. Have you heard of Wilton School of cake decorating? Their classes are range from 2 weeks to 1 day and are only cake. She also teaches some advanced classes there. I would also like to have a full culinary background for my own passion and who knows one day I may go into catering or something. I dont think I can get this background from working in a bakery.


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

Ditto foodpump. Very sound advice. 
It sounds like you're in a hurry to start a business with very little experience. That's not a great idea. If you want to also get into baking, you'll want to know something about it before you open a business. Same goes with being a caterer. 

A word about cake people. Many of them are artistic, but don't know a thing about baking. It takes YEARS to develop your skills enough to be able to confidently deliver a quality product that sets your business apart.

Don't rush. Learn what you need to, whether it's on the job or in school. Don't expect any big financial reward any time in the near future. This is your time to LEARN, and there are lots of good teachers out there.


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## ashleyluvscake (Jul 10, 2007)

I dont understand why everyone on this forum thinks everyone else is so stupid. I dont think im going to go out tomorrow and start a business but there is nothing wrong with having a goal. Who cares if that goal is for 10 years in the future...it's better than having no plan at all. As well as I don't really understand how asking about school or what I should do before opening a business gives the impression that I want to start one with no knowledge.... isnt that what school is for? 

I know this is something I am willing to give up an $85,000 a year job to persue and am just trying to make sure I do it the right way. I thought school and formal education to have a solid foundation followed by on the job experience under a professional would be a good start, but see that everyone is bashing culinary school.


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

I'm sorry if I made it seem like I thought you were stupid. that was not my intention. In reading your posts, I somehow had the impression that you were in a hurry to open a business. All I was trying to say, is that you should get as much experience as possible beforehand. There's no school-bashing. School can teach you a lot of valuable skills, but certainly not enough to develop we---rounded confidence in your abilities. 

We're only trying to help. Nothing more than that.


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

I'm sorry if I made it seem like I thought you were stupid. that was not my intention. In reading your posts, I somehow had the impression that you were in a hurry to open a business. All I was trying to say, is that you should get as much experience as possible beforehand. There's no school-bashing. School can teach you a lot of valuable skills, but certainly not enough to develop we---rounded confidence in your abilities. 

We're only trying to help. Nothing more than that.


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

Ashley based on some of the generalizations you are making about the people and comments on the website it sounds to me like you have had a lot of people elsewhere poo pooing your ideas and you are getting a bit sensitive about it. Do I understand that you are making $85k/year now and want to make cakes instead. If you are asking for advice you better be willing to take the good with the bad, the ones that back you and the ones that caution you. A good portion of the people on this website have gone to culinary school and there are good aspects and bad aspects to it. If you want to specialize in cakes you may not want to go, you may not have to. People like Colette Peters are the rarity. Colette as you may or may not know got a degree in fine arts and worked for years for Tiffany lamps before she went into cakes. As Momoreg said many are "artists", what kind of artistic skills do you posess? Not everyone can develop into Colette Peters, or Mike McCarey or Michelle Klem. But as Momoreg said not all artists can bake and if you make a beautiful cake that tastes like &$%$ you won't get a lot of repeat business.
High end cakes are not Wilton cakes, Wilton cakes are geared towards the average home cook. Perhaps what you can do is to take some general baking courses at the local schools tech or otherwise, than some specialty courses from people like Sue MacMahon or Susan Notter, then work in a bakery that produces cakes to home your skills. It's rewarding, but not easy and the financial aspect could be better. Just my 2 cents.


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## thetincook (Jun 14, 2002)

Ashly- Since you're in Los Angeles, check out baking program at Los Angeles Trade Tech It's a much better option then Le Cordon Blue and its a fraction of the cost. I went to culinary there on the savory side, and while I was there they had a strong baking/pastry program.


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## chefraz (May 10, 2007)

heres my 2 cents. when I started in the bakery I knew nothing about cakes. nothing. I started out baking them I found out what and how to bake them, then I moved on to decorating(at the time I never seen a guy making cakes, ever. my retail experience(lead me to believe that cakes were decorated by women) when I went to a large hotel operation. I learnt how to decorate cakes many diferent kinds for banquets and for the other outlets in the hotel. ive been there for 13 years .So dont waste money you can use to start your shop. get a job at a bakery doing cake :anything .and practice on your own time. they will love you for your ambition.and you will learn from people there. they dont want to to do bad work, so its a two way street.walk on both sides.


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## jessiquina (Nov 4, 2005)

hello. i didnt read all the above posts.. i just wanted to tell you that you really only need like a 12month baking and pastry program (it will be cheaper) where you get a diploma... not an associates degree. you will be paying for the general education classes that i dont think are necessary for a baker. and you dont have to go to the best school, some community colleges have great culinary programs.


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## m brown (May 29, 1999)

Ashley,

The Wilton Week-longs r a great idea to get your feet wet. stage in a pastry/bakery/hotel kitchen.

Look into Pastry courses at different schools, 
Johnson and Wales is where I went and you will find it a solid Pastry Arts edu.
The culinary schools in California should have a division as well.
There is the ICE in NYC, French Culinary, CIA, Kendell College, and a ton I've missed. 

Keep asking questions and keep your eye out. 

PS, Collette is a great designer/business woman and person!

When I get re-located I will let you know when I re-open - I will need some good interns!


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## ashleyluvscake (Jul 10, 2007)

I do appreciate everyones input, thank you. I still haven't ruled out school because I think I would just enjoy it if nothing else and I would like to learn more than just pastry as a personal thing, but there is a course for 1/2 the cost in laguna beach that is only 6 months no pastry that may be well worth it. 

The wilton classes are for home cooks? I saw a lot of very talented people in the staff. Has anyone taken classes there? It is rather out of the way and expensive if it isnt for professionals. I could find something like that around here. 

I started calling around today. I told them I want to learn and hey its free work and I know how to work hard, but so far I have got we are full, we are no longer taking interns, and we only take interns from the school. 

I live in Orange County...anyone have any suggestions of places I could try?


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## ashleyluvscake (Jul 10, 2007)

Yes, you do understand that I make $85,000 a year now and want to make cakes. Is that hard to believe? Life isn't always about money. Frankly I have had enough of the career I have now and do not love what I do every day for 24 days out of the month. 

Actually this is the only forum I have been on and most every thread I go on is saying the culinary school is a waste. Articles I have found say different, but I thought it would be a good idea to ask those in the business. 

As far as artistic skills are concerned. I have a very creative mind, draw and paint with water colors and oil.


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## m brown (May 29, 1999)

Ya know what, my first classes were at a local bakery using the Wilton Technique. 
It is a great jumping off point. From Wilton you get the basics, its what you do after the class that matters!!!:smiles:

If you go to the more economical route, try to spend some time and funds traveling to the sugar show, different day/week classes held around the country. 


You sound like a smart cookie.


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## erik (Jan 23, 2006)

School is not a waste. 

Granted, I went to a good school (which happened to be a community college), so my ideas on that matter are skewed. 

But I agree with everyone here saying you should go get a bakery job. Even if it is not decorating cakes. It'll accomplish 2 things:

1) It'll confirm or dismiss your desire to become a cake decorator - the industry is not for everyone.

2) It'll give you a great foundation for your 'formal' education.

Every minute you spend working in a bakery is part of your education. There are two types of knowledge in this field: head knowledge, and hand knowledge. School is mostly the former, work is mostly the latter. The latter is more important in most cases.

Plus, if you are not having to work so hard (in school) on learning to apply a good crumb coat, you can work harder on more advanced decorating skills.


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

Don't get me wrong, I completely understand. My thought was that a lot of people close to you were probably questioning that. Doing cakes can be very satisfying, I know! M.B. was right in that Wilton can give you a decent knowledge base, just not some higher end techniques. If you want an all around education Culinary school is a great idea, if you only wanted to specialize, maybe not so much for the cost. I would never poo poo education.
There are a lot of avenues to get to where you want to be, the most important thing though is your desire and hunger. It will take you to where you want to be.
Check thee people out, there are a lot of people who just do it as a hobby and most of them are amazing! The ones you see on TV, are just the ones you see on TV there are a lot more that are equally as good if not better!
Cake Decorating from the International Cake Exploration Societe - ICES


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## jessiquina (Nov 4, 2005)

culinary school is not a waste. however, you cant teach passion. some people got it, some dont.


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## ashleyluvscake (Jul 10, 2007)

Great news, I think I have an internship with sweetgems in huntington beach. It is kind of far from me and I'm not sure how I can do it while working but its a great start. 

Thank you all for your ideas and help. As exciting as it is to change careers...it is VERY scary to give up so much stability. 

I think I am going to try the intern thing for now and hope that it confirms spending the money on school is a good idea.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Ashley,
When setting your goals, you should decide where you want to be in the business. A cake decorating position will probably not keep you in the lifestyle you are used to. If your goal is to own a business, it is a little bit easier to achieve your financial goals.
First off, some of the people responding to you have an enornmous length of time in the business. The biggest mistake you can make when experienced people are trying to be protective of "you" is to misconstrue it as negetivity. It's ok though, that's just human nature. Once you decide where you want to be, then you should take everything in, keep what you think you might need and filter out the rest.
I'm only making suggestions to you. If you think you can see yourself in an ownership role, then schooling is very important. For every cake decorating class I would be taking a business class. With ownership comes so many other roles you have to play. Just doing the Gov't's work " collecting monies and taxes" might be 10% of your time. General administration might be 15% of your time. You might only be baking 30% of the time. For every percent of business knowledge you acquire, it will give you more time baking. Does that make sense?
If you decide to become a cake decorator, then I would definately take as many classes as I could. I would also probably suggest a formal schooling with an intership program so you could participate in shows and competition. You need to develope an individual style early on as to fast track up the ladder.
Anything is achievable in this industry, you just have to put up with some of it's antiquated ways.
Good luck to you,
pan


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## ashleyluvscake (Jul 10, 2007)

My end goal is to be an owner. I know I cannot do this right away, but eventually this is where I would like to end up. My plan way to go to the LCB in pasadena and once completed get a BA in business from a community college. 

Do most of you think doing the culinary part at the community college is a better idea than the LCB?


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## damack (Feb 21, 2007)

im sorry to say that community colleges dont give out Batchlers degrees you are going to have to go to a 4 year school, also if you want to stay at the comunity college leval then you can also recive a AA.( 2 year degree)


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## erik (Jan 23, 2006)

Some community colleges are starting to team up with 4-year schools to offer Bachelor's degrees on their campuses. 

As for going to the culinary program at your comminuty college, it depends on their program. I'd look for a dedicated pastry program, as opposed to an all-encompassing 'culinary' program. Also, look to see what accreditation the program has.


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## ashleyluvscake (Jul 10, 2007)

That's what the cc here does. It's teamed up with Cal State Fullerton for to get a BA. I haven't heard great things about the culinary programs in this area at the community college. Except one in LA.


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## risque cakes (Apr 20, 2007)

Ashley, I don't understand why the school is making you through the whole program learning culinary and butchering skills if all you want to do is design cakes.

Do the Baking and pastry program and spend the summers taking some business courses instead.

I did my Associate's at Johnson and Wales even though I have about 25 years doing and teaching cakes, because I WANTED that piece of paper.

I found that I learned more on my own that at school, but I wanted my degree.

In the Program you get very basic skills, and very CLASSIC recipes that we don't really use in the cake decorating business.

I've had my own shop for a little over a year and only 1 caterer has asked me if I made a Sacher torte!

Now, if I worked as a pastry person in a hotel or high end restaurant, I would be making these all the time, there is not to much room for creativity when you make classic desserts though because they are very recognizable.

I think you need to take a deep breath and not generalize, It may be because you're young or frustrated or both and YES, it's not always about the money even though leaving a 85G a year job may be hard for some, it may not be for you.

If you have the chance to do this without financial reprecussions, do it. The school will also find you an internship someplace so you can get started after graduation.

Good Luck!


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## marge gunaw (Jul 28, 2007)

Dear Ashley,

I can see that you are a proffesional person as you would do anything base on your experience.

If you have experience in cake decorating on your own, it's better to get several different short courses of cake decorating, just to add more info and experiences in decorating tha cakes and later on you will attempt the skill to create your own decorating ideas.

If you do want to open a cake business on your own but you think you are lack of experiences, you might hire a profesional to assist you running the business and you will learning by doing during running the business, but it is great risk that you need to take if you do this.

Decorating cakes not only involving decorating skills, but experiences is needed and very important.

Here are several things that may involved in Cake Decorating:
1. Cake making: recipes, how to bake, how to change the recipes according to clients needs, ingredients understanding,

2. Decorating ingredients: Butter cream, Fondant, Sugar Paste, Gumpaste, Frosting, Icing, etc. is the most things that you need to undertand and have the skill. In School you will get the basic learning which is very important, but experiences through hands on short courses also important to add your skill improvement.

3. Creative & Ideas: This is the most important skill that you shoud have as it will make you special amongst all cake designers. Speciality in decorating is the skill that you must have. Creative & Ideas can only be achieved when you have experiences.

There is one Cake Designer that I knew in Indonesia that have an extraordinary skill of cake decorating. Please visit his website: Yongki Gunawan - Main Page. You can ask him any questions and he will answer it. (He speaks English too) He has several photographs in his website. He is also lecturer for Cake Decorating and he also have a cake decorating short courses schedule. From a Baby Shower Cake, Chritening, Birthday up to complicated Wedding Cakes, including to make the cake decorating accessories, such as: Gumpaste Flower & Toys, Fondant Flowers and Toys and many others. (I was once his assistant in cake decorating and gumpaste flower & Toys making). You can email to him at: [email protected].

Wish you the best of luck.


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## 1dessertdiva (Oct 20, 2006)

Hi Ashley,
YAY for you! You have the passion and drive to pursue your dream.
I would like to add:
I did things backward, I started a Catering company (out of passion), then opened and ran a Cafe' for 10 plus years in addition to Catering, then opened a 7000 sq ft Restaurant (made our own pasta, smoked our own meat blah,blah) won a lot of awards, featured in newspapers and did fairly well.
Always wanted to go to a Culinary school, everytime I hired a culinary graduate it reminded me I wanted to go, (I am self taught).
I had the opportunity, to change my direction (I was and still am obsessed with Cake decorating). I sold both Restaurants (still have catering).
Went to the Le Cordon Bleu Pastry and Baking program, graduated with Honors, I wish I hadn't, I will be paying a fortune for quite some time to come to learn things I already knew. If I had to do it all over, I would intern at a few places that would take me, continue to surf the internet and read, it's less expensive and quite often more informative.
I own a new shop called The Dessert Diva, I specialize in unique designer cakes and gourmet Desserts, I get to do what I LOVE (sometimes 20 hours a day) and the only regret I have is the year in school and the financial obligation I incurred.
I hire cake enthusiast's all the time, as long as you enjoy what you are doing that takes precedence over everything.
P.S. I have hired a LOT of culinary graduates over the past 15 years, and I have been just as happy, sometimes more so with the non-pro's
Hope that helps
Joan
1dessertdiva


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## frayedknot (Dec 17, 2006)

Hey there Ashley, you have gotten some *very good advice* in this thread. From extremely talented people with years of been there done that. I would take their advice to heart. 
Another angle would be this, which is what I have done. I went to the local CC and got my certificates,(both baking and pastry and savory because I am passionate about playing with my food) and currently I bake in a high end grocery store, LEARNING PRODUCTION! I feel that I have learned a ton mostly because I have decided to learn while I earn. (I am a second timer and the money is amazing to me!!! how do people live on what is paid) I have the opportunity to create some unique things mostly breads right now, and will prolly move on into a specialty shop (and here is the key.. with a bit of confidence) but can decorate when the decorator decides its not worth comming into work. Personally I really do not want to decorate but bake, I like the problem solving "why did that do that" both good and bad. 

The decorator is an artsey person, I am not, creative yes artsey no... but she can not bake anything, and could careless, consequently she knows very little on how to correct problems that arise. Just a thought would be to try the local CC (learn the basics) at night so you can keep the job that affords you the lifestyle you are accustomed to AND think about your local high end grocery (they are always hiring part time)... You will knock out cakes alot of them (usually a frozen product) and learn how to do production, THEN step into the next level, a cake shop that can teach you addtional skills and help to hone the finer skill set. But you will already know how to use piping bags, make roses, learn basket weave, using air gun etc etc, oh and you will also get a strong forearm and great grip. oh and the carpel tunnel hand wrap!! Then when you feel comfy.... start the own your own thing. 

Best of luck
just my .02


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

There are quite a few people doing what you are aspiring to do. I can't speak for the others, but my shop is always to you for for a visit. Spend an hour, day, week. I'm pretty sure our operation is along the lines of what you're thinking about. Upscale American, 50% weddings__50% retail.
Panini
PM anytime


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## eeyore (Nov 26, 2000)

Well, I find I have alot of opinions on this thread. So Ill just tell you what I think for whatever its worth. Keep in mind tho that I am doing high end specialty cakes and that I did go to culinary school. I have taken classes from wilton and from Colette Peters personally. I also know Susan Notter. Im not bragging, Im just giving my reasons for thinking I have alot to say about this thread.lol 

I DEFINATELY do not think that culinary school is a waste of time. I do think that it can be a huge waste of money to spend tens of thousands on a pastry education when all you really want to do is make really cool, yummy cakes. Many of the high end schools require you to enroll in the program and take all the classes. That was the case here at Culinards pastry program. I thought that is what I really wanted. At the time Susan was running the program. (She later went on to start her own cake shop where I worked for 2 years--after she left) I already had a basic culinary education from a much less expensive culinary school. I never took the core classes and only took the culinary classes I was interested in. I wouldnt trade this basic baking education for anything. And I have worked with many people who went to Culinard.....and I am CONVINCED they did NOT receive a better education than I did. 

To make really good baked goods you need to study. You need to be educated about the ingredients and mixing methods etc. I dont think that you can easily learn this "on the job". That is not true of cake decorating however. It is something you learn by watching and then doing. I have found most people come out of culinary school with alot of knowledge and a new vocabulary theyre so proud of....but very few can even split, level, and ice a cake really well. Much less do the level of work you are interested in.

I know you want to eventually work for yourself (I definately dont blame you)....but keep in mind that it is very hard to learn by yourself. So I think it is good that you know it may be awhile before you do. In getting this "on the job" education you are going to be getting paid squat. And you probably already know this, but it would be a very long time before you would make any where near what you are making now.....if ever. 

So, I guess here is my recommendation:

Get some education in baking but dont spend a fortune if its not necessary. Consider taking a course just on chocolate.
Get "on the job" experience. (Whatever school you attend should be able to hook you up) 
Find out who is who in your area. Who is the best? Network. Offer to help out for little or no pay. (it will always be on your resume that you worked for them) 
Attend any and all continuing education courses you can. (I believe this is important no matter how long you've been in the business)
Attend local and national competitions. You can learn alot and meet people who can help you. You can begin to develop relationships with the venders who always show up, which might help you later.
Keep a portfolio of your work.

Im so excited for you. Please keep us informed and continue to ask us questions. If there is anything we pastry chefs like its giving advice. 

Hope this has helped.
Eeyore


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Eeyore, 
I read your post and agree with it whole heartedly. Your opinion seems to be the general attitude.
As you know I'm a hair over 40:lol: so a little bit old fashioned. I think our industry has followed many others in that by people have branched out and become specialist in certain things. 
Here's my concern, if you specialize in pasrty arts and spend little time on the hot side I feel you will be at a huge disadvantage if your put in a situation where you may work side by side. Now I know this is not what we are talking about here, but sometimes we can always get what we want.
I have seen quite a few Pastry Chefs crash and burn at the hands of an Exec. Chef, Catering Sales, or F&B. The main reason being, they did not have enough food knowledge to stand up for themselves when it came to pairings and menu design. I've had Pastry Chefs tell me they would break out in hives when the sales staff would come down to design a desert for 500++ and would be toting their little pastry books This also happens the other way around, when your superiors play Pastry Chef.
Just a thought, and would like to hear from the hot side if they dare


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## canadatogo (Mar 3, 2007)

This is just my two cents (I just finished a Professional Baking program.) The school portion of the program was really good because we learned a lot of the basics in baking, pastry, chocolate, cakes, some of the more traditional cake decorating (sacher, dobos...), nutrition and labelling, inventory, and management. The most important part of the course though was the co-op work terms. For the work term I just finished I was working at a french bakery and pastry shop and I learned more there in two weeks than all my time at school. 

The best advice I could possibly give you is to go to a program that's a little more on the short side (mine was 9 months,) but make sure there's work terms, because that's really where you'll learn the most.

That's my advice, take it or leave it (just please don't bash me for something.)


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Andrea,
What's to bash? great input! Sounds like you found just what you need.
It makes the hair stand up on the back of my head {that's the only place it grows now}. When I hear about this seperation in kitchen duties. When I was coming up and knapsacking around Europe, it was just as important to know what would make my souffle drop as it was to have a raft break.
I only mention this because recently I have eaten at some very upscale establishments where the Chef and Pasrty Chef have much notoriety. I have ended my meal on a downer because the dessert {wonderful} was not a good finish to the meal. I recently ate in Nappa at a very well known restaurant, I always ask for what the chef is eating, well I was served an acidic scallop starter, Venison w/ huckelberry (acidic} and acidic salad and an acidic dessert.
I guess I wish they would close the gap between professions and require everyone to learn some of both ends.
Pan


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## risque cakes (Apr 20, 2007)

that's why I like Johnson and Wales, the Culinary program has one term where they have to do Pastry work.


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## jcakes (Feb 18, 2007)

The other thing to consider is the huge disparity in salaries - if you are financing your culinary education, you may be left with a large debt to finance and your salary as an entry level baker may leave you with a really tight budget to live on. Student loans are student loans no matter where you go to school, but why saddle yourself with a huge debt when you leave?

You will learn more in the real time environment of a leading bakery in your area; but school offers a rounded education (the sanitation, ordering/purchasing, etc). You can always go to school so maybe before you enroll anywhere, get a job in a bakery - even as counter help or a cashier. Get in and be willing to do anything (wash dishes, mop floors) and you will have a chance to watch their daily production and eventually as they see how helpful and ambitious you are, you'll be able to move up. 

Good luck...


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## lizbakes (Feb 5, 2007)

Save your $50k, go to work for a bakery or cake designer, and take some classes from some great designers. Colette Peters does classes, as do a lot of other successful cake people. Cake decorating message boards have some great information on them - Sugarcraft is one of them. Ace of Cakes (food Tv) is a cool show, and you can see what high-end cake sculpting is really like.


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## risque cakes (Apr 20, 2007)

I totally agree with this path, and if you still love it...then you can go to culinary school


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## catheyj (Sep 16, 2007)

AshleyLuvsCake;180701 said:


> I do appreciate everyones input, thank you. I still haven't ruled out school because I think I would just enjoy it if nothing else and I would like to learn more than just pastry as a personal thing, but there is a course for 1/2 the cost in laguna beach that is only 6 months no pastry that may be well worth it.
> 
> I am in a simliar situation as you in trying to decide what to do about school except I am pursuing Personal Chef. I would like to round out my education by adding pastry courses. I totally understand where you are coming from. I would love to go to CIA but its really expensive! I am turning 40 this year so I think I will stick with the local Culinary Arts school where I will earn a diploma. IT is very difficult to decide what is best with so many people pushing degree/diploma and then so many others telling you experience is the best bet. Like you, I want to do the schooling part for ME, so that I feel better about my base knowledge.
> Goodl luck to you.. keep me posted on what you decide!


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## marlene (Oct 1, 2007)

Wow Eeyore I am definitely going to take what you have to say to heart. I too have dreams of opening up my own cake business. Thx so much for the great advice...keep it coming. I love this site!


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## audrey60618 (Feb 27, 2007)

Dear Ashley: Welcome to Chef Talk! I'm a student at The French Pastry School in Chicago, and do have a bit of advice. Like yourself, I only wanted to do cakes, but I felt is was important wanted to have a full education in the Pastry Arts before embarking on a new career. There are many things to consider before jumping head first into this industry, and you need to have a clear understanding about what you are heading into. Please search the Chef Talk archives for any and all advice the seasoned professionals on this board have offered up; it's INVALUABLE information!!

There is absolutely no need to go through a full culinary program if all you are interested in is cakes. *Of course* the good folks at Le Cordon Bleu told you it was the place to be!! It's called keeping up their numbers, and they will tell you exactly what you WANT to hear in order to get you enrolled. Please understand that they are in business to make money, and a big part of that business is to keep their classes full. You do not need to spend that kind of money to learn about cakes!!!

NOW, if you really want to only do cakes then you can go a much cheaper route. Go to Wilton and take some classes! They will teach you basic construction, working with fondant, gumpaste techniques, and pastillage. OR, find a culinary school (either close to you or in another city) that offers continuing education courses. You can learn about flavor profiling, advanced contruction techniques, and many other thiongs the cake professional needs to know.

Have you checked out any of the magazines dedicated to the art of cake baking and decorating? It's a great jumping off point, and is MUCH cheaper than enrolling in a culinary program. Another idea is to do research on the top cake designers in the country such as Colette Peters, Cake Girls, Nicholas Lodge, or Ron Ben Israel. They have links on their websites to many resources essential to the cake professional.

Please understand that cake making/decorating is a _VERY EXPENSIVE BUSINESS_ endeavor. You _*will*_ have to purchase a lot of specialty equipment, trust me. Before you do that, find a bakery in your area that specializes in cakes and volunteer to work a shift. Explain to the owner/manager about your interest in working in the industry; you will be surprised at how willing people are to let you do so. It will give you a real, tangible idea of what to expect, and what *not* to expect. I'll just leave it at that.

Best of luck in your pursuit of cake making/decorating!!!

xoxox
Audrey


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## thetincook (Jun 14, 2002)

In my area, skilled cake decorators are in demand.


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## paulaspencer (Aug 20, 2010)

Just to throw another 2cents in there even though this thread is quite old. I would encourage anyone without a college diploma to get one. The business courses, math classes, working with other students to solve problems, budgeting of time, energy and resources are all good experiences for anyone who wants to eventually open a cake business. Business owners must wear many hats, as we all know, not just the chef's hat


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Are you saying "diploma" (certificate) or "degree" (B.A., B.S., M.A., M.S., PhD), there is a WORLD of difference!


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## yellowflamingo (Jan 14, 2011)

Hey Ashley- I was reading your post and there is some really great advice on here! I was wondering what you decided to do- school or no school? How's it going so far?


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## sweetchefny (Apr 15, 2010)

Hi Ashley -

Wow - I just read through all the response you received to your initial post.  Here's my 2 cents.  I was a career changer who decided to pursue my passion in baking and went to culinary school (The CIA) for a degree in baking and pastry arts, with no prior hands-on or bakery experience.   Although I made the right decision to go to school, I watched many others start with the same dreams and passion as you expressed, only to drop out after they actually got their hands into it.   I also have recently completed all of the Wilton cake decorating classes because cakes are not something I do a lot of.  Yes, some of the techniques in those classes are geared towards home cooks, but its a great way to gain some very inexpensive hands-on experience working with fondant, gumpaste, etc.  You might learn you don't actually like it OR it may confirm your desire to pursue cakes as a career and seek out more advanced, professional training.  As others have suggested, try to get an entry-level position in a local bakery you admire, or see if they will at least let you trail for a while (unpaid position and a chance for you to observe what goes on).   Take some inexpensive classes first and see if you still love it once you spend hours doing it.  Create cakes for friends and family members to hone your skills.  Best of luck - life is too short not to pursue your dreams.


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