# Really a Chef???



## jolly roger (Jan 27, 2006)

I've been active in this forum for a month now and I've seen a lot of crap come down the 'ole pipeline. I realize we're a mixed bunch here, but can we possibly seperate the real chefs...the ones who are professionals (pastry, restaurant, personal, private, etc from the ones that are self-proclaimed without understanding? If I were a pipeffiter and some jackhole off the street said he was a pipefitter, but didn't know his buisness, his life expectenacy would be about eight minutes. Point being, if you are not a chef, don't say you are. No disgrace in being a bada*s line cook. I was there and took pride. Bada*s line cooks are what make the machine work. Hat's off to all you MF'ers that crank it out and keep comin' back. I wish I could buy you all a drink tonight!


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## expatc (Feb 16, 2006)

Everything you said is true but not necessarily the problem of the cooks. IMO about 15 years ago in North America, you could not "swing a cat" (as they say down south) without hitting a "Restaurant Consultant". Graduate Schools were cranking out MBA's a bit too fast and there was just nothing for them to do. Then some bonehead decided that "All business is business". Period. All business school knowledge was transferable. No difference between a car factory and making a Terrine of Foie Gras with Pistachio Veloute. (Plus every restaurant in the US wanted to hang a sign outside that said "1 Billion Served" and the Consultants told them it was as easy as pie.)

As any kitchen pro knows, the hardest thing about your job is usually your staff. How do you attract someone to work for just barely above slave wages, sitting on top of a hot grill and make them CARE about whats going on? The answer, as any first year business school grad. student will tell you, is: MARKETING. There was a better chance of getting a "Chef" for 6.50/hr. than a plain old cook. 

Cooks became CHEFS, Chefs became CELEBRITIES and people didn't go to culinary school to learn how to cook, they went to culinary school to become celebrities. People walk out of cooking school after a 1 or 2 year program and take their first job in a real kitchen (by that I mean a kitchen where people pay the cooks to cook. Not one where the cooks pay the owners of the school for the privilege of cooking.) And actually think they know more than someone that has never been to a brand-name Institute but has been working in a commercial kitchen for years. There is a very, very good reason an amazing % of cooking school grads. never last more than their first year in reataurant/commercial cooking.

But, it is not the fault of that 18 year old, well meaning "cook" that he/she walks around saying that he/she is a "CHEF". That is what the consultants, schools and Personnel Managers told them. Try walking into a European kitchen, 1 month out of school and saying "I am a Chef." You will probably find yourself in a tiny room, at the end of a long hall, lit by a dim lightbulb hanging from a wire, chopping carrots to brunoise until you learn a little respect.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

"swing a cat":lol: :lol: 
beautiful! and that's the name of that tune:chef:


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

You know this is not the first time the remark has been made about those who are not chefs should butt out so to speak. And its really starting to get under my skin. The people here that are not chefs have just as much right as those who are chefs. People need to get it through their thick skulls that we are all here to learn. It don't matter if your a home cook or a gardener. Thats the reason they have the Professional Forum, don't want to mingle with ameteurs then post there.


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

Anger management. Yep.

I was a cook, and darned proud of it. AND I LOVED IT even though I only made 8 bucks an hour. Learned many life lessons and GREW UP.

Cat swingin is a sport here in the delta. As my husband would say, can't swing one without hittin a farmer 'round here.


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

LOL you go cakerookie! I got your back!


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## jolly roger (Jan 27, 2006)

And while we're at it...Gosh we are an uptight bunch, eh? I'm not lookin' to start a revolution or anything, I'm just making a point. You are what you are: a cook, OR chef, or professional cat swinging ding-dong. It doesn't make sense to you something that you actually are not and then get into a forum and start asking rediculous questions. Cakerookie, go have a spa day or something, you gget too bunched up all the time or go to the sense of humor store and pick out a good one this time. Sheesh!


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

ROTFLMAO still :crazy:


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

This board is cyclical, These type of things come around now and again.

The important thing is to think objectively, and post/reply respectfully.

One issue some chefs may take to heart is the title "chef" being in many members name who are not.The hard work and years of training are important to chefs.

Being secure with ones self and confident in your capabilities I think is the most important aspect of professional and personal growth and development.

You see, the professional forums are there to allow chefs and cooks to discuss the entire universe of what we go through everyday and every night. It is not meant to dis friends that are not pros, nor is it meant to elevate pros "above" anyone else.

I have been on this board for a long time, and can tell you that some of the most engaging threads/posts are by non professional chefs.

remember the name of the site "cheftalk" that's how it first started out, we have grown so over the years that more forums have been developed to help people find what they need. This was done with only the best intentions in mind.

BTW, I am a 27 year vet, never made a penny any other way than in a kitchen, I now teach culinary arts. My students do not graduate and say they are chef's.We instill from the very beginning, that this is a "step" in the right direction.Most chefs/cooks that really put down culinary schools either had a very negative experience, or have gone through the school of hard knocks, which I respect.


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

Jolly Roger,

No need for personal flames. No place for it here. If you feel you need to talk to someone like that, please take it private.
Thanks


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## jolly roger (Jan 27, 2006)

Understood and appreciated, Capechef. You sound like someone I would like to hang with. I have a bit of a sarcastic personality from time to time and I don't even take myself too seriously, hence the tone of my posts. But, I call'em as I see'em, can ya dig? A question about what to do with potato stuff after you make 'tato skins from someone who totes alleged stripes? C'mon, that just time for some fun. Anyway, I can dig that not everyone on this forum isn't from the front line, but in the same vien nobody here is trying to hang anyone out to dry. Message to all: Learn how to laugh, respond in similar sarcastic tone, or just grow a pair.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Play nice nice


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

That was quick Jeff!


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

Panini, its all good. No worries. Have a great weekend all!


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

I will say I am cool with it. But I am not.Not at all!


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Well, I just did not want to overshadow the post by ExpatC. I think it is well spoken and dead on. Of course there is always exceptions. I lived through it as others. I also think there have been a lot of quickly formed educational outlets that are riding the wave. I almost see a different trend starting. I think more new students are gravitating toward the more older institutional type enviornments. One that not only give syllibus for an acredited arts degree but also acreditation form major foundations,AFC and so on.
Bot,CR, who luvs ya? CR have you not been thanked for your input from others? sugar?
This to shall pass, life is too short
sorry for the add on, but I felt I should say that I did attend school, so I'm not knocking it.


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

As Cape Chef said, this is a cyclical thing. The board has been redesigned to accommodate your concerns, Cakerookie.

You'll note that the site's subtitle is, "A food lover's link to professional chefs". I've been here a long time and have learned much from the pros and home cooks here. I appreciate the respect with which I'm treated here by Cape Chef and others I've talked to here and in person. It's part of what makes this site a comfortable place for all. 

Nicko has made forums that are reserved for professionals. He's done everything he can (short of bonking trespassers on the head, I'm sure) to make sure people realize and respect that boundary. I read and learn from those forums, but don't post there (except for one single post). 

But the rest of the board is for everyone to read and enjoy. When welcoming new members who use the title "chef" in their board names, I try to discern whether they really are chefs, are aspiring to be or are wannabes. Those who are not are welcomed here, but are reminded of the professional merit that goes with the title.

In short, we are doing all we can to make sure that people understand the significance of the title. Jolly Roger, if you want to hang out only with chefs, stick to those forums or find a board that is exclusively for chefs. That is your perogative. We welcome all comers here who follow our guidelines.


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## jolly roger (Jan 27, 2006)

Ok, ok...I'll be nice. I'm not out to step on anyone's clog. Gee wiz, capechef, maybe you and cakerookie should "shopping" together. Maybe I was wrong about the whole "hangin" out thing. How in the world have you made it as long as you say you have with such THIN skin? Oh, wait, I said I'd be nice...Um...just remembered something my mama used to say about not saying anything if I can't think of anything nice to say. (And then there was silence)


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## jolly roger (Jan 27, 2006)

Gosh! Why is everyone on my case, man? Ok, ok...I got the message. I'll play nice.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Read your first post, jollyroger, and could identify with it. Nothing much you can do about it, except get your "spidey senses tingling" whenever someone describes themselves as a "Chef". My wife swears my ears prick up when I interview someone and they describe themselves as a Chef. 

Whenever I advertise for a postion in my kitchen and read the resumes coming in, I gotta bring a bucket with me. Stuff like "prep-chef" "Salad-chef", and "I've been "Cheffing"for almost two years now...." I hear Sizzler's has a postion for a guy called the "drop-chef", the guy drops stuff into the fryer basket....

It's a great rant, and I've done it on other sites too, but not much to do about it


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

Mezz -- I just realized I have been intruding on Chef's Discussion. I'll refrain <sniff sniff>


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## jolly roger (Jan 27, 2006)

Foodpump...I almost choked on my chips when I read your last post here. Funny stuff. I know it's a tired rant, but now it's turned into a showcase for all the uptight "drop-chefs". I'm just havin' some fun and killin' time. While I'm at it, that term "cheffin'" or "cheffing"...what does that mean? Is it similar to the term "whoring" like when you find out your significant other has been less than faithful and you accuse them of "whoring around"? Just wondering. 

P.S. I'm now in a public library in Bexley Ohio and as I fished this post I started laughing so loudly that the libraian "shushed" me.


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

:lol:   again, still, stomach in stitches from ROTFLMAO!!! 

Sorry guys (and gals) I really am a mature individual, but I have realized sometimes we just gotta pull the stick out and laugh at ourselves. I can now get back to work without feeling like I'm barefoot on eggshells. XXXOOOO Stevie


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## headless chicken (Apr 28, 2003)

I know I'm nowhere near "chef" status but I don't go around town touting that I am. ****, I only finished my schooling 10 months ago. I mostly hang here to get some insite into the industry, look up tips, just basically immerse myself into a world I'm trying to be a part of. 

Besides, whats the point of having a specialized forum with hundreds to thousands of members without having different POVs on things? What I would consider ludacris may seem logical to someone else here. Diversity is the name of the game and without it, this place would be very boring.


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## jolly roger (Jan 27, 2006)

Hey headless chicken, we're just having a little fun. I think that's still allowed. Where did you attend school and what are you doing for work right now?


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

JR I may be one of the people who your talking about. My problem is typing. I come off as sounding that my way is the right way. I probably sound like the whole world revolves around me. It's just the way it comes out. I sound like I am a current hot chef or what ever the title maybe. Have an application on my desk that spouts about being a sandwich cheff for three years.
No one knows what the cridentials are to titles in our industry except following certification from AFC or something. I am really proud of my business success. I may have certifications, schooling,etc. Am I a Chef?
I'm different, thats the reason I got out and did something my way. I always tell my coworkers that they are Chefs. The only thing I can come up with is performance and the ability to make profits. There is so much passion in this industry that sometimes we forget that this is our profession and this is how we survive. I personally don't suscribe to'live to work'. I sometimes think that the so called passion is an excuse for not living life to it's fullest. You know who I'm talking about, the lifers. Man, I work to make monies to enjoy my time away from work. That does not mean I have any less passion than the next guy.
No one should ever have to explain or prove themselves to anyone. I would hate for someone to question the source of my posts. It's a take it or leave it thing. I learned a long time ago not to label or critisize, and if I do I come to the table with facts. Be very careful of the sleepers on this board. We can't count the yrs. of experience or the fame they have. It would be a reality check.I know you would not appreciate if someone just labeled you a chef. I know for a fact that there are truly great sucessful professionals lurking, they just don't have to tell ya, like me 
I personally like ya. I already have labeled you, you're a Chef.It's simple. If your not in the professional kitchens then you wouldn't understand. And I can tell by your posts that you probably take people under your wing, and you can probably pluck some feathers if need be.
pan, Certified Certifiable


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## chef_oz (Mar 7, 2006)

Morning. 
I'll make breakfast!

:ciao:


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## jolly roger (Jan 27, 2006)

Right-on, Pan. What started out as an innocent rant turned into a bit of a verbal brawl. The point being made was that there is quite a bit of liberty taken with titles. A friend of mine that owns the Italian joint around the corner where I live hates the whole title game. He's a true, bada*s chef, but you can't ever call him that. He introduces me as a chef to other people, but won't take the title himself. I just got a stone in my shoe about a question I saw coupled with some perceived self-importance and decided launch. I realize there is a lot of experience out there on this site and I've read through many very thoughtful posts...peachcreek stands out to me as well you, panini and shroomgirl. Anyway, I really dig killin' time with forum and have met some interesting cats so far.


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

Oz, I already made a breakfast burrito but I'm starting coq au vin for lunch, you game?


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

ok oz and Bot. enough with the patronizing. Sometimes things just need to be ironed out. That's how we professional Chefs do it. You know that!
Demo's a product once, and the company gave me a beautiful Braggard jacket stiched with the bakery and under it Chef/Owner. They could not understand why I wouldn't wear it:lol: Yes, I have a stable of chefs. Haven't dealt with a label in 12 yrs. I have a hard time calling my coworkers, emoloyees.
It's all a sham, I'm actually a pastry cook in a bakery somewhere.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

oz , bot ,stop:look: 
you been rolling around on that floor so much you must look like a chellabotz


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

Pan my man, I wasn't patronizing! If you didn't live in Texas, I'd have you over for a fabulous lunch! I make a darned good CaV. I know I shouldn't post here anymore, but I wanted to get back to you because you are a pretty rightous dude.

Cheers!!!


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## bbcheff (Jul 7, 2002)

Culinary school is a great start, but everyone needs to do their tour in that"tiny room at the end of hall"


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

I think its best we all agree to disagree and let this dead horse rest in peace. I was just saying what I felt I did not mean to start WW3. So with that I will say everyone have a nice day chefs and non chefs alike. Bot I'd like one of those burritos would it last first class priority mail 2 to 3 day? Sorry Pan just a joke man. You know we love ya man............


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

kudos

btw -- what's a chellabotz? :roll:


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Please, I annoint all of you with the title of your choice. Shoot, i'm nearing 100 yrs. old and I still learn everyday. I probably shouldn't be posting here either. Ok fine, leave!!! 
I feel like I'm waving my arms and drowning in the middle of the ocean, oh! here come a rescue vessel, on board there is this guy dressed in white and calls himself Jolly Roger, why does he have that poop eating grin on his face?
help 
OK. like your computer, lets reset the date back a day or two and not change anything. I hope this end it. it's like the first date call, you hang uo,no you hang up
Bot, I don't know, slang from the old man, probably means sloppy, I know it's nowhere near negligente or disordinato, who knows. I was called that a least 5 times a day.


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

Don't know. You will have to hope Pan comes back to explain that one...


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

I was just on the phone with my father. I was way off on pronunciation and meaning. He say it means you look and act like you just got out of prison.
who knew? I can't tell you what he just called me for not understanding that after all these years


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

Pan, you okay? Almost worse than a chick (and I am one!)

Have a glass of wine, reflect on life, and recognize (as I have) that its comforting to be part of a family, however disfunctional it may be  I am grateful for all of you.


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

Roger that!!! XXXXOOOOO Stevie


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

chick?
OMG, I am too, you guys didn't know that?
actually gave up online purchases for a while, so here I sit. waiting for the kid to get home to install another HD in my PC


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

Can you please be very clear on what you meant with the above statement.I have a strong suspicion your trying to put me down.


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

I was curious too but I did not want to start another world war so I kept quiet.


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

Pan, so cool you are also a chick! :bounce:


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Bot,
Chick? I thought you said chique.


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

LOL
BTW -- all Oz did was offer bfast... which, I thought was quite gentlemanly.


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## chef_oz (Mar 7, 2006)

its ok, Im a calm person
I just felt a little warm food would help everyone. 

I made dirty egg whites and fruit salad... I have leftover fruit! 

:ciao:


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

Oz, I'll be there tomorrow morning for some fruit. I'll bring the yogurt. Unfortunately this farming community is experiencing Mother Nature with ADD who finally realized Winter was supposed to happen.... Bad juju for local restaurants.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

hello? music calms the beast. I will be in the kitchen tomorrow playing with friends, I will also be playing Bocelli very loud:crazy:


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

Good choice, don't forget to throw in a little Vivaldi, or maybe some Dinah Washington...?


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## headless chicken (Apr 28, 2003)

Went to George Brown College here in Toronto. Took the Baking program then the Chef Training. I'm now working for Compass Group @ the same campus I trained in as a cook or sous chef, I'm second to the chef either way. I mainly posted after reading the original thread so I havn't had the opertunity to read other people's responses yet :beer:


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## chef m (Mar 10, 2006)

i had a dream about a piece of paper in my hand, so what is a chef, hmm, any one that works in a real kitchen, which i dont, stardom is about the customers, if you own its about the customers. someone has to feed the pocket. a chef or a chief is about the crew evereyones crew as in position. i started to wash dishes like everyone else.


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## chef m (Mar 10, 2006)

yes your head is to big, i have a ?, what mags do you subscribe to. do you cook or sit in an office, and make quick decisions. education? or hands on? what did u come with on your own, the nights you slepped alone, yet with a family, and sacrifice your family for your crew. did you ever wondar if u would break down IN A RUSH, or dealt with IT. jolly u r ok in my book, but on the other side of the token is grunt work, something u or i can not learn in school, do u want a job? when u sleep do u dream about tommorow, or the next day? i know i have a crew that is simplr but they are hard. so what is a chef,or chief! lets not forget the cook or grunt. if u are what u say, then u know the pressure of different workers or maybey ishould say KITCHEN HELP? we all start somewhere, but where do we start. i hope i did not offend u, weakend are hard, yet the job was done in the kitchen as you know, PREP TOMMOROW, just another day.


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

nothing wrong with washing dishes, been there, done that, would do it again in a heart beat.


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## chef m (Mar 10, 2006)

still do it, a cooks life


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

Chef M -- pardon me, please. I say this out of compassion, honestly.... I think you need some rest. Take a Sunday for yourself. XXXOOOO


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## jolly roger (Jan 27, 2006)

Chef M...what does your keyboard look like? I just have a hard time reading your posts. Maybe you need to have a spa day with cakerookie and brush up on your spelling a bit. Food4life...Touche my friend. I appreciate your "concern". No harm done, maybe only to the over sensitive and thin skinned. I can't say I'm aware of Ted Mac, but if he's got a reputation for a sharp wit and a no BS policy, then yeah, I might dig his style. I'm really surprised at how much attention, negative or otherwise, this post received in regards to others taking the time to say how much they didn't like some of my comments. (...scratching head and saying: "hmmm...") For what it's worth ya'll (The easily offended Quaker group), I didn't intend on this getting to lynch mob mentality level. Just take it easy and try to take some things with a grain of salt. Relax.


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## jolly roger (Jan 27, 2006)

Hey dude, I wasn't trying to put you down. It's just that I seemed to have started a bit of a feeding frenzy Saturday morning, or whenever the h*ll my post got out of control and I was just trying to keep up. Pardon any friendly fire, boss. I'll save my sarcastic wit for my blogs.


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

You know what. Rather than put up with this abuse I think I should just log off and not bother coming back. Has far as being Quaker I am not. As far as the lynch mob goes look at yourself in the mirror my friend you were the one who got all this started. And before I say somethings I do not mean I will leave this forum and not look back because there are plenty more where I do not have to tolerate insensitive people..........


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

quote
Chef M...what does your keyboard look like? I just have a hard time reading your posts. Maybe you need to have a spa day with cakerookie and brush up on your spelling a bit. Food4life...Touche my friend. I appreciate your "concern". No harm done, maybe only to the over sensitive and thin skinned. I can't say I'm aware of Ted Mac, but if he's got a reputation for a sharp wit and a no BS policy, then yeah, I might dig his style. I'm really surprised at how much attention, negative or otherwise, this post received in regards to others taking the time to say how much they didn't like some of my comments. (...scratching head and saying: "hmmm...") For what it's worth ya'll (The easily offended Quaker group), I didn't intend on this getting to lynch mob mentality level. Just take it easy and try to take some things with a grain of salt. Relax.

JR, thanks. I never wrote anything about my experience before. I just got through reading your posts. I just realized that you are all the chefs I fast tracked over when coming up in pastries. This is not an insult. I just couldn't place you. You've really helped here. There are many chefs in the industry just as you are. I'm not going to have to keep the spin about, you might encounter different personalities when your apprenticing and coming up through the ranks. I bookmarked a couple of threads. I'm ok with you now, and somehow you may be a asset of some kind. I mean considering I have not heard anything about real food.


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## ogreplate (Mar 2, 2006)

I'm confused?


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

Yeah honey, so am I, and I normally like to think of myself as a pretty smart chicki with a good head on my shoulders. Time to put this puppy to bed.


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## jolly roger (Jan 27, 2006)

Panini...Hey, wow! I saw your spine in that post. I was begining to think you may haven't been in posession of one. Whatever, dude. I'm now currently and painfully aware that the users here are quite sensitive. As for fast tracking chefs like me, Um, I wasn't a pastry boy. Not my cup 'O fudge. I'm good with food and making my numbers look good and I teach culinary courses locally. So, you got me on the dolce. I think I'll manage. 

Food4life..you are a man/woman (I forgot what gender you were. I made that mistake with cakerookie and now he's confused and hurt.) of many words, most of which you delivered in quite the sarcastic tone. I learned in this forum, Cheftalk, that sarcasm is an indication of the presence of deep seated anger. Maybe you and I need to go to anger management sessions. And it sounds Panini has flipped his noodle too! Hey BTW, Food4life, thanks for suggestions on how to rib someone ina polite and respectful fashion. I never would have guessed you could be so witty. And you get a gold star for not using any profanity no matter how much you may have wanted to. It's really hard for not f*ckin' cuss even when I'm just thinking something! I had some good laughs, but I think I'd better split. It's kind of a waste of time and Man, I just got hooked! Oh d*mn! I forgot to post read this post to make sure there were no potential insulting remarks! Panini, Food4life, can you fellows look to see if I let any insulting remarks slip through?


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## peachcreek (Sep 21, 2001)

No. Not really.


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## peachcreek (Sep 21, 2001)

I'm more like a misdirected geologist who after 30 years still hasn't found his way out of the kitchen. But aren't we all.


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

LOL Peaches. Gastronomic laboratory divergents of the world unite.


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

Foodi4lif, you're great!!!


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

Foodi4lif thanks for the support but sometimes you just have to ignore what does not matter. Its like the old saying "All a question of mind over matter, I don't mind cause it don't matter. Besides thats what the ignore list is for and I use it. Old saying what you can't see can't hurt you, well what you can't read won't tick you off.


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## chef m (Mar 10, 2006)

wats rong wit my spelling nice point made.


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

Foodi -- narcistic part of me is wondering why you didn't mention me in any of your posts????  

I got a a super duper Bowflex too! Hoping to tone up and get back into shape. There's no where I can hang my kickboxing punching bag in this place! LOL

Can't believe Tony got shot either!!!! BUT we know that he's gonna recover.


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## chef m (Mar 10, 2006)

Now that the dinner rush is over and the air is cleared, what is really a chef? I know regardless a piece of paper or full tours no one is a chef unless they have the heart to be one. We are all one, in our own ways, A chef will not walk out like some people we seen do. As i say in the kitchen to the ones that can not fill the boots, just say" BYE,BYE" jr.:bounce:


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

Wow, foodi4lif, that's quite a story. Good luck w/ the bowflex. It's one of the few TV exercise products that actually works. I am so inspired by your story, I think I'll throw together some biscuits for breakfast.

Pastry is such fun. You prove that even the simplest things can seem miraculous, and in all the years I've been doing pastry, I am still amazed at how much you can do with the same basic handful of ingredients.


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## cheesecake (Mar 7, 2006)

the whole forum has calmed down, and nobody's making the mood too stabby anymore, but who's to say what's the difference between a cook and a chef? in Australia, the difference is a peice of paper, Australian "Chef's" are apprenticed for four years, and attend colledge for 1 day a week for 3 out of the four years, but when it comes down to it, "chef" is a respectful form of address...we call only ONE person in the kitchen "Chef" and that's all it means, the chef is the commander, captain of the ship, wrangler of overstretched, underpaid, knife-wielding individuals, and thats the skill in being a "chef". but to get there they must learn the cullinary stuff to back it up, they're a teacher too.

but that's all of my rant. what do i know, i'm not a "trade cook" yet....


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## shahar (Dec 15, 1999)

"Chef"'s means nothing more or less than "manager". He's the manager of the kitchen. In a big kitchen, yes, you can have a "salad chef". If truly he manages a team of "salad cooks".

The point was I believe that the term had been diluted. For people, like me, who worked very hard many years to get to the point of calling ourselves chefs, seeing it used as a substitute for cook can be a bit ahrg ahg aggravating.

Speaking of which I've been seeing more and more shops and supermarkets making their employees wear chef jackets. I hold my uniform a sacred white token of the cleanliness of my temple of work. And eighteen year olds who can't spell cucumber walk around in dirty unbuttoned jackets selling hair products.

Ahrrg and double ahrrg!


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

You can add me thats for sure............


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## travisbickle (Mar 13, 2006)

Wow Food4life, I think you could've just gone with number 19 and been ok. I have worked for chefs who matched a third of the things you mentioned and I still found some of them worthy to learn from. Someone in a place of responsibility like a chef can't spin as many plates as you listed. That's why I think that a good chef will surround hiself/herself with good people who will take on some of the load without being told. I pride myself on doing that for my chef and I receive acknowledgement from time to time wich let's me know that my effort is not in vain and inspires me to work harder and to be more observant. To me, a chef is the captain of the ship and barring mutany, the chef is in charge. And he better be able to cook me under the table!


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## ma facon (Dec 16, 2004)

The topic is " Really a chef " Well I can tell you this from life experiences, You will be recognized a chef the day after you pass by your peers. You will spend your life convincing yourself that you are one, And only your service that preceeds you will display the facts.:chef: 





Get back to work, What else are you going to do ???


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## jim berman (Oct 28, 1999)

Any idea to whom we could credit this?

Very well said!


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## nick.shu (Jul 18, 2000)

Dear, dear me. This topic is a perennial favourite isnt it!.

I could refer to past experiences et al but i wont. All i will say is that looking forward to the future suggests that this will be a career not for the faint hearted. Also all the indicators point towards the ones with the best training and background will be the most sought after staff. But i digress.

The honest truth, is that best describes "what is a chef" relates to the manager of the kitchen, the leader whom everyone looks towards for experience and knowledge to guide the kitchen to its intrinsic and ultimate goals. Clashes can occur due to differing management styles, opinions etc, but a good chef will know these things (heh, "winners dont use autocracy")

But anyway.....


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

I find that when I need a little calming down, a little Godsmack does the trick.


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## jolly roger (Jan 27, 2006)

D*mn! I can't believe this is still going!!! After all the flack I received for my rather opinionated remarks and sarcastic comments, the group here just can't leave this alone. I have to be honest and report that when discussing this amongst a group of friends of mine, some career restaurant folk, some no where near a career in the foodservice industry, I got mixed remarks. The restaurant folk, after reviewing the site and my comments, agreed with the point about the term "chef" being used to liberally and one of my friends thought I was a bit rude. The group that do not work in the foodservice industry didn't understand, but recognized that I was just having fun and didn't seem to think there was any harm done. Whew! Boy am I glad I still have a few friends after all this. I'm still memorized at Chef M's inability to formulate a complete sentence and Food4life's hopeless pretenciousness. Food...I bet you could talk paint right off the wall and a dead man into a coma.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Try 4-non-blondes, works for me....


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Kyle, Godsmack calms you down huh? I almost believe that.I choose stuff like Bocelli, because of the eclectic group we have. I move from Spanish Ballods to SlipKnot, to Matt Pond Pa, to TopoGigio Spanish humor to Gwar. Don't remark on the spelling, I just listen and then sometimes like just a minute ago when I was reading there is some annoying static:lol:


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## ma facon (Dec 16, 2004)

Why the sarcasm ? And your judging of other members is uncalled for. IMHO


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## nentony (May 7, 2005)

Anyone have XM radio in the kitchen. You can get it via your computer. Something for everyone. Panini, they have a mexican folk chanel. I swear I can smell corn cooking in the zocolo when I hear Mariachi music. Chanel 150 (stand up comics) can really lighten the mood.

Tony


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Nentony,
Yes, we have XM or cd's only. 150 is on sometimes if I'm playing late at night in the kitchen, though not so suitable for the younger Females. I have to stop when I hear lewis Black and shoot? the ney ney guy,
We have devoted hours of listening for each employee. So I'm VERY familiar with the Mexican stations.
We just don't have any good regular radio here.
ps Just wondering, the price is nominal, and I was one of the early ones to sign, so they gave us the boombox and such with 5 yrs, at $5 mth, but are you getting XM for free over the internet?
pan


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## nentony (May 7, 2005)

Foodi4lif, A. Godsmack is one of those bands my older son annoys me with. B. I love acoustic alchemy. C. I know that quote and I spent 20 min. trying to remember who's it was this morning. Still bugging me. Maybe I'll wake up with the answer.

Panini, I have xm in the car so its free on the computer. I'm all over the place as far as music, love reggae, blues, Old school soul. When it gets busy though, I prefer silence.

Tony


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

Although I understand what some people are trying to say here. I really think we should let it go. Once a seeker looses attention, they go away.

This is a "chefs discussion forum", not a forum for personal vendetta's.


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## irishchef (Mar 15, 2006)

OMG...what have I stumbled across? And on my first day?? whuh...


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## ma facon (Dec 16, 2004)

If the members involved in this thread would stand up and contribute like the chefs/cooks they strive or pretend to be this thread would be on track. Get it together or hit the street.:chef: 


If you put yourself in the expectation of being a chef, Look back at what you have posted. Much less as a admirable human being. Live and learn, You will sooner or later ......? You answer this. I don't have to live with you, You do............................... So get with it.:chef:





Only because I care.


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## jim berman (Oct 28, 1999)

This thread has moved to direction that is no longer productive. This community is a medium for the exchange of information; it is a learning environment. As such, personal attacks have NO place here - they are unprofessional and are not part of what we do here.
As such, I am 'closing' this thread with the hopes that we can move on to more productive discussions.


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