# At Home With The CIA



## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

I'm involved in a major project taking a look at the CIA's At-Home series.

I'd appreciate hearing your views about any of the five books current part of the At-Home group: pro or con, usefullness, etc.

Either post your responses here, or contact me off-line.

Thnx.


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## missyjean (Nov 5, 2009)

I am so glad you are doing this. I am very attracted to their line of books and would like some validation.

I bought the gourmet in minutes CIA book and returned it. The only thing I made from that book was the Waldorf Salad.  It came out good but different than anything  I ever had before.   but, every time I go to the store, I am drawn to those books and resist buying them.

I respect everyone's opinion on this board and look forward to reading this thread's responses


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Keep in mind, Missy Jean, that we're discussing only the At Home series, of which there are five titles currently and more in the works:

1. Cooking At Home
2. Baking At Home
3. Hors d'Oeuvre At Home
4. Chocolates and Confections At Home
5. Artisan Breads At Home

So, what about these do you find attractive? And, given the attraction, what's stopped you from buying one or more of them? In other words, why the resistence?


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## justpj (Feb 24, 2009)

I havent seen these as yet so it is difficult to comment on them, but my first impressions are they would be a throttled down version of a good CIA student module.  I may be off base entirely but if I saw them on the shelf , because of my sometimes warped thinking, I probably wouldnt pick one up.

Are they strickly geared toward the novice??


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## missyjean (Nov 5, 2009)

KYHeirloomer said:


> Keep in mind, Missy Jean, that we're discussing only the At Home series, of which there are five titles currently and more in the works:
> 
> 1. Cooking At Home
> 2. Baking At Home
> ...


i bought and subsequently returned Cooking At Home, Baking At Home and Gourmet In Minutes.

I think I am attracted to the books, or, at least, want them to work for me because of the respect I feel for the CIA.

As someone new to cooking, I've been looking for the right books for me. I was going to collect all the CIA books to establish a cookbook library.

I do feel I learned something from the books for the brief time I had them (Barnes & Nobel allows returns within 14 days); but, I felt insecure with the Waldorf Salad I made because nobody even commented on it. Also, I was looking for more detailed explanations and I feel CIA books skimmed the surface.

I have been buying and returning books for the past 6 months until I tried Cook's Illustrated New Best Recipes. Every recipe I make gets a WOW response.

However, I respect the opinion of everyone on this board and would be willing to try the CIA home collection again if you guys recommend it.

I started a thread about these books some months ago because I needed help.


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## kcz (Dec 14, 2006)

I posted about the Hors D'Oeuvre book before. http://www.cheftalk.com/forum/thread/58361/braiding-bread

I recently bought the CIA's Breakfast and Brunches book (not part of their "At Home" series), and it is also a disappointment. Are Refried Beans, Chicken Pot Pie, and an Asian Stir-Fry Scallop recipe really appropriate for brunch? Can't the CIA come up with anything better?

The CIA won't be getting any more of my cookbook budget.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

I remember your comments, KCZ, and appreciate them. Was hoping to promote wider discussion to see if many members had used any of those books, and what they thought of them.

_Can't the CIA come up with anything better?
_
You would hope so. If this is the best the preeminent culinary school in America can do, you really have to wonder.

But it may be that formal culinary education doesn't translate well to the printed word? So far I've been disappointed with the entire series; mostly in the choice of recipes and how they're presented (that is to say, badly).

Let me mitigate that by pointing out that the current Director of Publishing is aware of the problems, and has been working hard to correct them. Whether or not she's successful is the open question.


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## missyjean (Nov 5, 2009)

Another issue I have with their recipes is that it is for too many servings. I don't think the average home cook wants to walk around with a calculator when they cook.

I do like their gear, though.

I love the measuring cups and measuring spoons and cooling grid


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Hmmmmmmm? Don't know if I share that objection, MissyJean. In the At-Home series, at least, recipes run 4-6 servings, which is pretty typical of consumer cookbooks.

In _Cooking At Home _the vast majority of the recipes are only four servings.

It's a little harder to make a determination in _Baking At Home, _cuz, after all, how many servings are there in a 9-inch pie or an 8-inch tart? But the predominating number seems to be six servings in that book. Again, fairly typical.

Have you, perhaps, picked up some of their professional titles instead?


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## missyjean (Nov 5, 2009)

Sorry, I was referring to this one


I know it is not the home series but it is one in which I thought the recipes were too large. I believe the servings were for 8


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

I'm not at all familiar with that one, MissyJean, so can offer no comments.


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## missyjean (Nov 5, 2009)

If, through your project,  you find these books to be good additions to a library, I will give them a second look. Thanks for looking into this subject


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Well you won't have long to wait. The first installment will be part of the April reviews.


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## missyjean (Nov 5, 2009)

I'm looking forward to it /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif


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## missyjean (Nov 5, 2009)

Kyheirloomer, I just finished reading your review of Cooking At Home With The CIA. I have to applaud you. Your work is in depth and informative.  

From my experience with a few of the CIA books, I could not agree more. As soon as you open the book, you cannot help but learn something; however, the recipes did not wow me. As a novice, I would not recognize errors in type or ratio.

I was waiting for your review and was going to purchase a few of the books based on your review.  

Thank you so much!

I guess I'll wait for the revisions and give the books another try at that time


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Glad you found the review useful, MissyJean.

I was really conflicted, with that one, because the instructional text is so good I wanted to give the book five stars. But couldn't justify a glowing review given the quality of the recipes. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/frown.gif

So far the next one in the series is shaping up a little better. But I want to prepare at least a half-dozen recipes from it before deciding for sure.


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## missyjean (Nov 5, 2009)

Are you going to review Professional Chef?  If you are a Barnes & Nobel member, you can get that book online for $44. The CIA home series is $28/book online.  Would it be more beneficial as well as more economic to buy Professional Chef if you are a novice home cook, like me?


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Hadn't planned on reviewing it this go around, MissyJean. As I mentioned above, this is a series taking a look at the At-Home Group.

I will say that in general I don't recommend CIA textbooks for people such as yourself. They are, like _Cooking At Home, _strongly techniques oriented, but less concerned with recipes as such. In fact, the recipes can be vague and unclear to the non-professional.

As originally envisioned, the At-Home books were supposed to be the professional texts adapted for use by the home cook.

All that aside, I think you've been taking the wrong approach. In several threads, now, you have stressed the desire for cookbooks with great recipes. And, in several threads, you've talked about how disappointing you find many of them.

I believe that is the point of the CIA books. Instead of worrying about recipes, you should be steeping yourself in techniques. The way you move from being a novice cook to a great cook is to realize that there is only one secret: Good cooking consists of applying good techniques to good ingredients. Once you've learned that, recipes become all but irrelevent.

Take that Waldorf Salad you found disappointing. Did you ever analyze why it lacked any sort of Wow! factor? And figure out how you could adapt it so that it both impressed those you served it to, and, in the process, became your recipe instead of somebody elses?

The way to advance as a cook is to use recipes strictly as guidelines, rather than something you slavishly follow. You read a recipe and it inspires you. Then you adapt and amend until it pleases you best. Doing that, of course, requires that----are you ready?----you are well versed in technique.

_As a novice, I would not recognize errors in type or ratio.
_
Precisely my point. If a recipe doesn't work out you should understand why. Sometimes, to be sure, it's your fault. But more times than not, novices blame themselves when it was the recipe itself that was to blame.

Here's a precise example. In my review I mention how off the recipe for fried calamari is. Cooks who work with cephlopods (i.e., squid, octopus, cuttlefish) use all kinds of recipes. But they have one underlying technique: the 2/20 rule. That means that no matter what the recipe is, these critters are cooked either for less than two minutes or more than 20 minutes. Thus, as soon as I saw a recipe that said to cook them at high heat for four minutes I immediately recognized a problem.

The difference is: Let's say you decided to make that recipe. You'd have wound up with little breaded rings of rubber. But would you have known why? And how would the experience have effected you? Not knowing what the problem was, you likely would conclude that you don't like squid, and won't make it again. And thereby cut yourself off from a vast range of great dishes.

Another thing about becoming a techniques-oriented cook. You'll never find yourself intimidated by, or afraid to try, new ingredients. Then, if it turns out you don't care for it, you know it was actually the taste of the product, not because you mishandled it. Or you might conclude, this is OK, but it would be spectacular if I did such and such with it.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

BTW, I just noticed that Amazon has copies of _Cooking At Home _at prices ranging from $9 & change upwards.

For ten or fifteen bucks I wouldn't hesitate to buy it, for the techniques stuff. Then you can ignore the recipes or not as you please.


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## xashley717x (Mar 19, 2010)

Could anyone tell me a little more about the chocolate and confections or baking books?  I'm an aspring pastry chef, and hope to be able to attend the CIA for a bachelors in baking and pastry arts in a few years when I graduate high school, so I thought I would try out these beforehand.  Thanks :]


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## missyjean (Nov 5, 2009)

KYHeirloomer said:


> Hadn't planned on reviewing it this go around, MissyJean. As I mentioned above, this is a series taking a look at the At-Home Group.
> 
> I will say that in general I don't recommend CIA textbooks for people such as yourself. They are, like _Cooking At Home, _strongly techniques oriented, but less concerned with recipes as such. In fact, the recipes can be vague and unclear to the non-professional.
> 
> ...


Very good points, KYHeirloom. You are totally correct. I guess I have been beneftting from the precise detail given in Cook's Illustrated recipes because everything I make from their recipe collection comes out great; but that might be because they take me through all the steps in in-depth detail.

The Waldorf Salad I made from the CIA book was not flavorful. This weekend I prepared a Waldorf Salad from the America's Test Kitchen's Best 2010 Recipes magazine which was very good. I once tried Alton Brown's version...it was loaded with Curry powder. I was supposed to bring it to a family gathering but dumped it instead.

For technique, is Home Cooking With The CIA be my best choice?


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

_For technique, is Home Cooking With The CIA be my best choice?

_Best? That's hard to say. I would certainly rank it way up there, though. Keep in mind that it basically follows the lesson plans of enrolled students, and you'll be learning the same way they do.

My preference, and the way my classes are arranged, is by technique types, which is a little different that how CIA does it. So, for instance, in my classes we explore all the ways of frying, and how that applies to various proteins. CIA, on the other hand, looks at poultry, and explores the techniques used to cook it. In the end they are just different paths to the same end.

_Could anyone tell me a little more about the chocolate and confections or baking books?

_We'll be reviewing them in the coming months, Ashley. Next up will be _Baking At Home. Chocolate and Confections At Home_ will be fourth, followed by _Artisan Breads At Home. _One thing making the CandC review worth waiting for is that it will be compared and contrasted with the professional version.

Let me suggest, though, that if you're serious about attending CIA and are looking to get a jump, that you just buy the professional versions to begin with. That way you'll know what you're in for, and will already have the texts that you'll need. IMO, the At-Home versions are pale copies of the professional texts.


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## missyjean (Nov 5, 2009)

Doing an amazon search on Professional Chef, one reviewer refers to On Cooking..Do you have an opinion as to which book is better?


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

No I don't, MissyJean.

Frankly, given your circumstances, I would opt for one of the lower-priced editions of _Cooking At Home _and supplement it with something like _Joy of Cooking _for the recipes. _Joy of Cooking _also provides some insights into techniques that are different from _Cooking At Home. _Between the two of them you'd have a good basics library, relatively inexpensively.


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## missyjean (Nov 5, 2009)

Okay then..thank you. I'll re-purchase Cooking At Home and probably Baking At Home if you give it the thumbs-up too.

As for Joy..I just never liked that book. I know it is highly recommended by many on this forum. I've owned it and returned it.  Next trip to Barnes & Nobel, I'll look through it again. Perhaps from the experience I have gained in the past few months I will find it to be better than I originally thought.

Thank you so much

Looking forward to future reviews


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Well, if you don't care for _Joy of Cooking, _and are looking for recipes with more of a wow! factor, you might consider any of the Food & Wine annuals. True, many of the recipes are on the advanced side, but armed with the techniques you'll learn from _Cooking At Home _they shouldn't be too difficult to master.

One continuing problem you'll face is that in any cookbook there will likely be a few recipes you really like, and many that just don't appeal. This is the same syndrome you'll run into with culinary magazines. The difference is, with culinary magazines you can easily cost-justify the occasional purchase, which isn't always the case with cookbooks.


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## missyjean (Nov 5, 2009)

I was given a year subscription to Food & Wine. I didn't think to try there recipes. But, as you said, after I learn techniques from the CIA book, I can tackle them.

This is a new journey for me and I am enjoying each step along the way, especially because of you and the other people on this board who are so generous with their help.

Thank you and I look forward to your next review

Oh, did you know CIA has several other books out:

http://www.ciaprochef.com/fbi/enthusiasts.html

I am thinking of adding Cooking At Home, Baking At Home and this one:

http://www.ciaprochef.com/fbi/books/OneDishMeals.html


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

One thing to be aware of with Food & Wine recipes. Many (certainly not all, but many) are restaurant style. Which means there can be multiple cooking methods used in the same dish, and mise en place is crucial.

Don't let them throw you. Just think out what you'll have to do, and the kind of time-line required, and you'll be just fine.

And don't get frustrated if the dish you make doesn't look like the one in the photo. I sometimes wonder if food stylists bother reading the recipes. 

Always remember the rule for how you eat an elephant: one bite at a time.


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## missyjean (Nov 5, 2009)

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif I never heard that rule before.

Thank you for your advice. I'll look for something easy to start. I just received a 15% coupon for Barnes & Noble so I'll order the Home Cooking and, hopefully, learn something


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## dmdaniel (Apr 17, 2010)

As someone coming from corporate America with a background in adult learning, corporate training and technical writing...the problem I see with most cookbooks that try to go beyond the recipe realm and into teaching cooking technique is that they are not written very well from a teaching perspective.  This is the main reason why I feel that this type of book often fails the reader, leaving them lost.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

The same could be said for many textbooks, no matter what the discipline. And a lot of technical writing suffers from the same problem as well---in addition to being written as a lot of things, but understandable English not being one of them.

The fact is, however, that the CIA AT-Home series is just the opposite. Because they were adapted from a teaching sylabus, the instructional material is balls-on. It's the recipes that suffer---at least in the early ones.


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## missyjean (Nov 5, 2009)

I was in B & N the other day reading both Cooking At Home and Professional Chef.

I was not lost reading either; however, I feel if I read Cooking At Home once, I will basically know what is in it. On the other hand, I feel Professional Chef might not be suitable for my level right now, but I *think* it offers more opportunity for growth. I think Professional Chef is a book I can always use for reference and technique. I don't think it matters that there are chapters in that book I will never use because it is so inclusive of all cooking techniques.  Am I wrong?

I have a coupon which will reduce the cost of PC to $40.  The same coupon will reduce the cost of Cooking At Home to $25 BUT then I will have to buy Baking At Home, etc...

Also, I looked through Baking At Home and I don't like that the recipes are in volume. Every baking book I own includes both weight and volume. I only bake by weight.

So, KYHeirloomer...your opinion is very important to me...what should I do?

Thank you for your help


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

I don't think you'd benefit from any professional level book. 

Well, that's overstating it. But keep in mind they are designed as textbooks for culinary schools, and are supplements to the hands-on instruction taught by the faculty. For most people they're just not worth the purchase price. 

Were I in your shoes I'd save the B&N coupon for something else, and buy Cooking At Home from Amazon, where it's listed for as little as nine bucks. Even with shipping you'll be ahead of the game, and will have the techiques material to use as a reference guide even if you never make any of the recipes. 

I don't think just reading about a technique, and doing it once, means you know it. Both the knowledge of, and developing skill with, technique comes from repetition. So for many things that you don't do all the time, a reference is valuable.

I'm not finished working my way through Baking At Home. My initial reaction, however, is that it suffers from the same problem as Cooking At Home; to wit, great technical and instructional material, but recipes that aren't quite right. 

I also have an issue with it on another level. I don't believe it's possible to have one book cover all aspects of baking without being superficial. Just think how many books there are at the subject of baking yeast breads. How can anybody cover yeast breads, and quick breads, and cookies, cakes, pies, etc. in a meaningful way? 

Were it me, I'd look at books that covered the baking topics which interest me in depth, rather than try and find one that covered the spectrum.


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## missyjean (Nov 5, 2009)

Thank you. I went to the library yesterday and rented Cooking At Home and the CIA's Culinary Boot Camp. I will give the home series a try before I actually buy it.

Thank you SO much for all your help and advice


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## sirlene (Mar 4, 2010)

May I ask you about another book that is on my "Amazon wish list" as one wrote here the other day.. 
/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif
I love duck and cook books. But to be honest I could not "overcome" the duck recipes yet! So when I saw this book I thought: "I must buy it!"
As it is quite expensive to ship it to Brazil (not all of them are, I have just bought "Sauces and "All About Braising") but this one has international shipping only for more expensive prices..

So, what is your opinion about the book?? Is it worth?

Sirlene
P.S.:Is this the right forum??/img/vbsmilies/smilies/blushing.gif


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Sirlene this is certainly the right forum. But I reckon I'd have started a new thread.

I haven't seen the Duck book. But, frankly, I can't imagine anything by James Peterson being anything but top of the line. You're gonna love _Sauces. _

I noticed that Amazon is listing used copies starting at around 15 bucks. Perhaps if you went that route it would make up for the higher shipping costs? It's been my experience, and that of others I know, that the descriptions can be counted on to understate the condition. That is, most books listed as, for instance, "good," actually are "very good" or better. And the "very good" listings are actually "excellent" or "like new."

The last used book I ordered that way was listed as being in "good" condition. When I got it, the top of the dust jacket was sort of abraded along the top edge, and there were some pencil marks on the title page. That was the only thing I found differentiating it from a new book. The seller had described that damage as "torn dust jacket" and mentioned the pencil marks.

So don't be afraid to order used books. It's really an economical way to build a library.

Alternatively, check with local bookstores. If the publisher involved has a distributor in the Southern Cone (and most do, nowadays), the local people should be able to order it for you.


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## sirlene (Mar 4, 2010)

Hi KYHeirloomer

I have the same opinion about James Peterson books. I have one other book of his - "Essencials of cooking" I bought it in Germany, it´s in german as most of my cook books are. Now I´m reading "Sauces" and it is really excellent!

About the Amazon ordering, I might have not being clear about it, the problem is that they do not accept my order (new or used) if the book costs less than US 70,00!!/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Good tip about the publisher local distributor! I will check it out!!

Obrigada
Sirlene


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