# Need advice on Red seal exam



## cjl_2006

Alright so I recently finished my 6000 hours for my apprenticeship back in august and i booked my red seal exam straight away.

I took the test a few days ago and i failed by 1 mark.... 1% Personally i found the test very obscure and vague.

A few examples below

What is the proper brewing temperature of coffee? According to professional cooking 5th edition it is 90-93C. This temperature range was not on the exam at all as one of the choices.

How long should a whole chicken be rested after roasting and coming out of the oven? I may be wrong but doesn't the size of the product partially determine the time needed for resting?

What is the proper procedure to skin an eel? I was unable to find any kind of a procedure for skinning an eel in my college book or online. Maybe it's because I've only worked at three different restaurants during the course of my apprenticeships but that question seems very tricky.

Is it possible to appeal the results of the exam? I really don't want to pay another 100 dollars to get the 1% needed to pass.

If i do have to take the test again can anyone link me to a sample example or questionnaire. It seems the book isn't a broad enough knowledge base for this exam.


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## foodpump

Ahhhhh, so you've experienced the "Red Schpeil" first hand, eh?

Pay the $100, and do it over. Don't bother complaining, it's just a Gov't board the gives tests like that to plumbers, electricians, and other trades. Probably your local Chef's ***'n that writes most of the questions. But the Gov't body insists on writing/designing the actual test, and as such has total control over all of the questions, albeit many of them stoopid.

Imagine, you've sweated 3 years for your apprenticeship, and the only test that counts one comprised of 200-odd multiple choice kweshtuns. Kinda like trying out for the Canucks or the Leafs, you show up with a hockey bag full of gear, and instead are asked to write a test.....

The Red Schpeil varies from Province to Province, in BC it's 8100 hours and you get a free re-write with your $100. Alberta is the ONLY province that actually requires some kind a practical cooking exam along with the written. Ontary-ario was made famous a while back by the two chicks from "Wendy's".

Thus, many employers are wary of the "Red Schpeil" as there are no standards within Canada. Most Chefs laugh when they see it on a resume, but many HR people and noobie employers get all white knuckled and heavy ragged breathing when they see it.


Most of the European Chef's are influenced by Pauli's "Classical cooking the modern way". In there you will find out how to skin an eel (make an incision around the heck, nail it's head up on a wall, and pull the skin off with pliars. No B.S. here either, check it yourself) Me, I'm a Saskatcahewan boy, never skinned an eel either.

Re-write the test, pay if you have to. Anyone who asks for this credential in the future should be viewed with contempt and suspicion, any one who laughs at it should be recognized as a professional who believes you should be tested on how well you can actually cook, move around in the kitchen, get along with employees, and organize.

Hope this helps


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## cjl_2006

Thanks for the advice.

I know the Red Seal is not a good indicator of the quality cook or chef that you are.

I've just noticed a lot of places like retirement communities and prisons that REQUIRE it before they even look at you for a job. 

It turns out that those jobs are the better paying jobs in the industry. Not that i want to pedal prison slop for the rest of my life but at this stage of my life where I'm saving for a car and house i really need to make some good coin. If this red seal helps me do that then all the power to it.

I've gotten in contact with my Chef professor from college and hopefully he has some advice for me.


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## ryan.brosseau1

Hear Hear!!! Two cheers for foodpump!!!


As a fairly recent grad of good old st. clair college in ontario , I agree 100% with foodpump. The only red seal chef's i have yet to meet that were worth a **** were the instructors at school. The first red seal chef i worked under couldn't even fillet a fish or 8-cut a chicken properly. I've learned most of what i've learned through trial and error and what the non-red seal chefs have taught me.

This seems to be the same as all the other red seal professions. The guys with no credentials know everything the know-it-alls with the red seal know how to pass a test. 

But yeah it sucks that the gov'mt jobs and hotels etc require it a lot of the time.

Advice that i gotten from friends and chefs about the test was to make sure you understand the concepts and how stuff works. The questions can then be answered using mostly common sense. And of course pick the answer closest to what the book says. 

Bite the bullet and pay the $100 and do better next time. 

Good luck.


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## leeniek

Well said foodpump and ryan!! I have met a couple of red seals who honestly didn't know their stuff at all and I've known more than them. It's funny.. I think the certification has went to their heads!


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## seabeecook

My experience is if you pettle "prison slop," the inmates will turn you into slop. 

I don't know about Canada, but here in California, prison jobs offer chefs and cooks a good way to earn a very good wage and steady income, benefits, etc. It certainly helps you pay for a car and house, especialy with overtime.

From a retired prison food manager,

Steven


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## mandarin25

I have failed twice both by 1% each time, and apparently switched a bunch of answers around cause the breakdown was different everywhere, I am writing it for the third time, and also would appreciate if someone knows where i can get a practice exam. 

there was one sauce on the test that I had never heard of, and I looked up in my book couldnt find it... it wasnt a base sauce, or a small sauce off the base sauces, it was rediculous.


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## foodpump

Hang on a sec,...

Are you telling me that you didn't pass because you only got 99% instead of the required 100% of all questions correct?

BTW, what was the name of the sauce?


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## chefray

That's the proper way, if you're ever asked, to skin a catfish also.


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## mandarin25

you need 70% to pass, I got 69% both times, I cant remember the sauce to be honest, thats how obscure it is, although my old chef told me that there is a sauce to watch for on the test, I cant remember what he called it, but it involves crayfish shells, and I think that might be the one.

This could be an interesting rewrite, after I had my daughter I have had no memory left, I hate that this piece of paper matters so much to some when really, I could be really book smart, but have no concept of food, and experimentation, Where as I am the opposite, I wont remember everything that is in the "professional chef" book, but give me a few ingredients, tell me what scale you want the food at (homecooked, gourmet, or inbetween) and I can make a great dish, from deliscious to artistic.


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## foodpump

Sauce Nantua?


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## petemccracken

So, you "missed" 31 out of 100 (62 out of 200)?


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## cjl_2006

In Ontario you need 105/150 to pass or 70%. My score was 104/150 or 69%.

My chef professor from college is sending me a mock test. I'll send it to you if i can.


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## petemccracken

So, if I understand correctly, you "missed" 36 answers, is that correct??

Not having seen a "Red Seal test", I presume it is multple choice with, say, four (4) choices? Knowing a little bit about creating such tests, two of the answers are obviously incorrect/wrong, one is a "distractor", i.e. might appear correct if one doesn't understand the subject, and one is correct. Common sense points to the fact that, if you had "guessed" at the 36 questions you missed, you would have gotten somewhere around 18 of them correct and you would have passed.

For example, if the sauce question WAS Sauce Nantua, which is a classic, Nantua sauce - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , my guess is the possible answers had clues to which was correct.

My advice? Rely on your "knowledge" of the fundamentals to figure out the correct answer(s), don't try to "memorize" either the possible questions or the answers.

I'll venture that there are three groups of questions on the test:
Those that the answer is obvious to you
Those that you "think " you know but are not sure about, and
Those you do not have a clue about
Go through the test and answer the first group, those that are obvious.

Go back and start over with the second group, ignoring those that fall in the third group, and use your skills to eliminate the wrong answers and help you pick the right answers.

Now go back to the ones you have no clue about and see if you can "guess" based on your knowledge.

On average, youu probably "know" the answers to 75-85 of the questions, have a good "guess" at 50-60 questions, and don't have a clue about 15 questions, so, if you answer the ones you know and half of the ones you "think" you know correctly, you'll score 105 without any problem.

Good luck on the re-test!


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## mandarin25

I dont recall if it was nantua that was on the test, I do remember that one of the options for the multiple choice was pickles, but thats all I remember, 

Like i said before, I am a great chef, I am just horrible at multiple choice questions because I second guess myself all the time, I think something is right, but under pressure I tend to lose sight of what I need, and pick something else. 

Thank you for your advice on the test, I appreciate it, I still don't understand why 75% of the test isn't practical. I know lots of people that passed the test in my class, and I would stay away from the restaurants they cooked in because I know that they dont follow health and safety rules, or just that their food is horrible. 

Good luck everyone who is writing the test... I may have to postpone my test date, working 6 days a week, taking care of a hurt/now sick husband, and my 1 year old daughter, I really havent had the time to look over my notes, and text... I will let you know if I passed though.


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## magar

Hi chef I am going to take test so I am so worried about tricky questions so if you dont mind can I have sample multiple questions in my email [email protected] ?

may thanks

prakash


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## sherbel

One can read this thread and get the impression that all of us with Red Seal certification are know-nothing dimwits who happen to excel at taking exams. I aced the test on my first try, having never set foot in any sort of culinary school, but having operated a restaurant, worked with several high end catering companies, and risen from an assistant cook to a food service manager in an institutional setting, where I earned a hefty salary.

While doing all this, I read everything that I could get my hands on in terms of cookbooks, cooking texts, and food writing. (I still do this.) I did this not to pass the test, but because I love the industry, and I love to read about food and cooking, as well as the history and anthropology of food and cooking.

Having said that, I respect anyone who has a good depth of knowledge in any discipline, cooking included. I don't mock those who are certified, however.....any more than I would disparage those without certification.

If you think the test is bad....if you don't respect it...don't take it. Carry on with your career without certification. Many successful cooks and chefs have done so.


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## chris nedoff

What is the red seal exam? I am new member of chef talk. Thanks.


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## Iceman

Nice post _*SherBel*_. I particularly like this part: 


> ... I respect anyone who has a good depth of knowledge in any discipline, cooking included. I don't mock those who are certified, however.....any more than I would disparage those without certification.
> 
> If you think the test is bad....if you don't respect it...don't take it. Carry on with your career without certification. Many successful cooks and chefs have done so.


On another point, some people are so concerned with their resumes that they trust too much in word processing programs. Sometimes, believe it or not, those programs make mistakes too. As an example, I am aware of two(2) professional websites that have very bad _"spell check"_ programs _(Yahoo, AOL)_, but that's for another time. LOL.

As for your question _*Chris*_ ...

In Canada there is an Interprovincial Standards Red Seal Program which, through the passing of a government provided exam, qualifies the individual as a tradesperson. Once an individual passes this Red Seal Cook Exam they are given the highest government recognised designation of Red Seal Cook. _*"Red Seal"*_ is a Canadian thing. There are all kinds of certifications; bricklayers, carpenters, mechanics, electricians and others I'm sure.


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## foodpump

SherBel said:


> .
> 
> Having said that, I respect anyone who has a good depth of knowledge in any discipline, cooking included. I don't mock those who are certified, however.....any more than I would disparage those without certification.
> 
> If you think the test is bad....if you don't respect it...don't take it. Carry on with your career without certification. Many successful cooks and chefs have done so.


Used to think that way--until 2009. Things changed. For one, the Red seal was changed to include an _actual cooking segment _, not just the 200-odd multiple choice kweshtuns--which, until then, the only other province to do so was Alberta.

ITA designs and supervises the tests, and as Iceman says, they do teh test for many other trades.. ITA canvasses support from the respective trades to see what they want on their test, and if they want a practical component or not. Many trades take this very seriously, and base salary ranges on these qualifications. The Unions in the Hospitality trade have in the past, ot given a rodents posterior about anything , and after 2009 only one Union has, taken an active interst in the Red Seal qualification. It is with this qualification that salary ranges are based

Go2 is a provincial gov't body that oversees of the hospitality industry training and are responsible for the changes. They now have in place a new cook's designation, or rather a series of them. It starts off with Cook I which has, I think 6 mths of schooling, a test, and then out in the work force. After a certian amount of hours of steady employment, Cook II can be taken, again with a schooling component, and more working in the indsutry. After that, it's Cook III and the big final exam--with a practical, hands on component-- is the Red Seal. This situation finally acknowleges that hands on work experience is just as important as the education component. Most of the Culinary schools are designing curriculum to meet with this new standard. Go2 is now doing the same for th baking Industry. The big goal is in 20 years or so, to do away with "challanging" the Red Seal, and have every one do a certain amount of schooling and a certain amounto of hands on cooking before writing the exam.

If you study most other trades, they base their salary ranges on qualifications, and if you know the hosptitality industry, wages are crapola for cooks, bakers, etc.. Qualifications are the best way to move the industry forward and attract and retain staff.

But a cook with a red seal prior to 2009? I don't want to go there.


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## sherbel

> But a cook with a red seal prior to 2009? I don't want to go there.


 I achieved my Red Seal in Ontario, after cooking professionally for more than 15 years. I'd have been delighted to take a practical cooking exam if one had been offered; but I'm still getting a whiff of denigration in the above sentence....."prior to 2009" you "don't want to go there", what do you mean?

(I saw nothing about a practical cooking exam on the Go2 website, but I was distracted by all of the advertising for A&W, I think.)

eta: Okay, I found some information on the Go2 website. It appears as though one can still challenge without a practical, if one has sufficient industry experience:

http://go2hr.ca/ApprenticeshipbrTra...ookFourPathsOneResult/tabid/1594/Default.aspx

*Challenge Option - For Those with Industry Experience*

There is another option to obtain Red Seal certification if you've spent years working in the industry and have never completed any formal training. You must first provide evidence that through your workplace experience you have acquired knowledge covering the scope of the trade and have completed the requisite number of hours, and then you will be eligible to challenge any of the credentials. Depending on your amount of experience, you may challenge Professional Cook 1 or 2 certifications individually and continue with one of the education streams, or challenge the Red Seal directly. Upon successful completion of your Inter Provincial Red Seal exam you will be granted both Professional Cook 3 certification and your Red Seal.


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## foodpump

Well, if you did your Red Seal in Ont.. then you must of heard of the "Wendy's girls"  two Wendy's employees who challanged--and got-- the Red Seal, right?

The cooking component of the Red Seal is part of the Red seal in B.C., and I have personally helped two  "challangers" who failed the first time on the practical because their baking skills needed work--alot of work.  They passed the second time around.

I came to B.C . in '96 and since then have had the opportunity to work with about a dozen or so "Red Seal" cooks--all of them "challangers".  While their work was great, alot of their knowledge was weak, and more importantly, they could't care less. 

I found:

-Most of them could't tell me the difference between "poaching" and  "simmering",

- "                                                                       " a Pate en croute, a Terrine, and a Gallantine,

-"                           " assemble a normal Hobart Meat grinder    

-"                  " could make a good Hollandaise, but not cold emulsions, or a hot sabayon

-"                    " did not know how to "baste" an egg

-"                    " confuse making an omelette with a fritttata, or made one on the flat top.

Other stuff like:

-That fresh figs, kiwis, and papayas put into a gelatine will not set, they all contain an enzme that kills the gelatine

-Commercial fridges and freezers have usually 3 defrost times per day, usually every 8 hrs.

-Can tell me today's weather forcast with highs and lows in celcius, but can not tell me the critical temps for many things in Celcous or even F.

and on and on and on.

Most of these guys were good cooks, moved well, and got along with everyone, but they figured once  they had their "Red Seal" that was it, the learning stopped.


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## leeniek

I heard of those "Wendy's girls" and they used their hours on the floor to help them qualify for the test.  I'm not sure though what the piece of paper will do for them though as if their only experience is at a fast food place they are in for a real struggle in a scratch kitchen.

So.. does this mean that anyone who works at a Timmies or a McBarf can apply for the seal and if they pass the test get it???


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## sherbel

I suppose that I would characterize the "Wendy's girls" fable as an urban myth, a typically misogynistic urban myth, unfortunately. (Note: no Wendy's "guys". Righto!)

I find the implied assertion that one could obtain the Red Seal certification after working in a fast food restaurant both insulting and highly amusing; one would have to question why so many culinary school graduates fail the test. In my case, I needed rather extensive documentation as to my knowledge and experience, and I was backed up by years of studying and ongoing practical learning.

As for the stated changes to a Federally regulated test in BC, where you claim that there is a required practical cooking component, I wonder if you could address this?

http://go2hr.ca/ApprenticeshipbrTra...ookFourPathsOneResult/tabid/1594/Default.aspx

*Challenge Option - For Those with Industry Experience*

_There is another option to obtain Red Seal certification if you've spent years working in the industry and have never completed any formal training. You must first provide evidence that through your workplace experience you have acquired knowledge covering the scope of the trade and have completed the requisite number of hours, and then you will be eligible to challenge any of the credentials._ *Depending on your amount of experience, you may challenge Professional Cook 1 or 2 certifications individually and continue with one of the education streams, or challenge the Red Seal directly. Upon successful completion of your Inter Provincial Red Seal exam you will be granted both Professional Cook 3 certification and your Red Seal.*

I've never been arrogant enough to think that I "know it all"; but the level of antipathy seen in this thread is eerily fascinating. It's vividly evident to me that I've been fortunate indeed to work in highly professional kitchens where I wasn't routinely insulted for having achieved my Red Seal certification, but rather where my skills, knowledge, experience, and desire to continue learning were highly valued.


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## foodpump

Congrats, Sherbel, you can't follow links, can you?

Follow the links on Go2 about chlanging the exam and you will be directed to ITA's site, which administers the test.

Here it is:

www.itabc.ca/AssetFactory.aspx?did=2162

There, in all of it's glory,will you find the testing requirements for PC3 .(Red Seal)

They are:

Written assesment

Competency conversation

Practical Assesment

And it goes on to describe the practical,which can not exceed 6 hrs, and includes a 5 couse meal with one yeast product, and goes on to clarify what protiens are to be used, what equipment you can and can not bring., etc. etc.

Clear? If not follow the links yourself.

The "Wendys Girls"? Yup, it happened, no urban myth. It was in the late '90's in Ontario, made it some of trade papersand journals here.

Antipathy? For a test that prior to 2009 was comprised of a bunch of multiple choice questions? No... bitter hatred. But since 2009 I'm all for it, happy with the changes, happy with the results--hence my patient explanations and positive outlook to others on this thread.

Welcome to Cheftalk..

Ti


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## sherbel

Why, thank you for the welcome, although frankly, you are making me feel the opposite of welcome.

I'll direct you to this link, and please pay attention to page 4.

http://www.itabc.ca/AssetFactory.aspx?did=1854

I'm getting the impression that the ITA testing is available in BC. I'm not seeing where it is _required_ to obtain a Red Seal certification for Cooking, as per page 4 of the link provided.

I haven't insulted you. Please do me the courtesy of not insulting me.


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## foodpump

ITA provides the certification for ALL acknowledged trades in Canada.  Apprentice or challanger, you still have to apply for, and write the test before you get the certification. 

We can talk off line if you like..


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## sherbel

Sure, feel free to PM me.


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## foodpump

Check your inbox


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## chefkakkat

hey chef......i am planning to write the exam soon,,,,,,can u send me a copy of the paper to [email protected]?

is the name of the sauce "newburg" ??

thanks

rop


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## foodpump

Ah... Chefkatkat.

I can't send you a copy of the "papers" but you can get your own papers.  Here's what you do:

Go to any grocery store, drugstore, or department store, and buy your own.  They usuall come in packages of 24 rolls, although also they come in packages of 48, 16, or 32 rolls.

Why do you  think I have a copy of the test? 

Honestly, why do you think this? 

Why do you think I'd send it out to anyone who asked? 

What's the purpose of a test?


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## askme

Hi chef.. iam going to write the red seal exam.. is it possible to send me a copy of the sample Q ?

thanks

Avi, Ottawa,Canada


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## foodpump

See the above post in answer to your question..

Good luck!


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## tothemax

Hi foodpump I need advice about challenging the red seal exam, I have been cooking in fine establishments off and on for 20 years now, I never became an apprentice but my skill set is good, I never worked at a restaurant for more than 3 years at a time due mostly to boredom and the willingness to learn as well being young at the time and getting sick of working weekends, Im sure you know.

 I did attend George Brown College cook school in 2005 for a 1 year Chef Training cert course that I went to the end but it was rough, we had our F&B cost control instructor show up 2 weeks late and then CUPE went on strike, they tried to crunch everything in to the last month of the course when they decided to back, I did well in all other courses exept alittle trouble on hosp. math and communications and that I had to go back to complete, I would of been alright if I had the class time but due to the strike, I was a single father at the time and my subsidy was only good till the end of the course so I couldnt finish, I was so mad and disgusted over the strike to begin with and chose to get my second half tuition back.

 That being said I took a couple years break from cooking to raise my son and got back into the swing of things this past couple years and now I really want my papers, I worked my ass off for 20 years being the backbone of the kitchen and I would like to finally get my papers.

 My question is: In my situation would the apprenticeship board consider me for the exam if my hours that are way over 8000 over the last 20 years count and my school experience? or is it only confined to the past 3 years?

 Thank you bro


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## foodpump

Look, there's the ITA that makes up the exam which is Federal, and also makes the exams for all other trades.  Then there's the Provincial side of things.  In B.C. it's Go2 which covers all hospitality trades.  Go2 decides what kind of questions they want on the exam and what qualifications are needed to write it.  Every Province is different, in Bc it is 8000 hrs, but the red seal has a  live cooking and baking component, Alberta is similar, Sask. needs 9 or 10,000 hrs with no live cooking, etc. etc..

So to qualify, check out the ITA's website (industry training authority).  More than likely they will want to see employer's testemonials or pay check stubs.

Hope this helps


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## malaravan

Hi chef.. I am going to write the red seal exam.. is it possible to send me a copy of the sample Q ? please send my e-mail [email protected]

thanks


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## foodpump

Hi Malaravan,

Please read my response, post #31 in this thread to a very similiar question.

Hope this helps


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## swansongood

hello

I am preparing for my red seal exam and would appreciate any practise exams that can be sent to me. please PM swansongood.   thanks so much


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## swansongood

practise exams are fine

a form of additional studying

sharon


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## foodpump

Sharon, if you read my above posts you should understand the function of the ITA. To the best of my knowledge ITA has never given out practice exams or sample questions.  If you think I have any influence on this, you're barking up the wrong tree.

BTW Practice has two "c"'s in it.  Practice makes prefect........


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## Iceman

_WOW._


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## shanks

Hi
I am not going to make the mistake of asking for sample questions because I saw foodpumps previous post and Charmin double rolls were half price this week so I have "papers". Haha
I get the fact that it is just a piece of paper, but the idea of the test can be intimidating. the fear of failing, the fear of finding out that I don't know as much as I thought I did. It is what has kept me from taking it for a few years now. 

But I do agree with the statment that someone made earlier about (and I am paraphrasing) just because someone has their seal doesn't mean they can cook. I have known a few sealed cooks that can't hack it on a line, but because they test well they have their papers. 

But all that being said, I want the seal for me. To prove to myself I can do it.
Sorry I got a little introspective there for a minute. Haha


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## shanks

Also I went to the Ita site like you suggested foodpump. Thanks


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## foodpump

Thank you.

Bear in mind that a red seal from 2010 and earlier was nothing more than a multiple choice question exam.  After that Go2 finally implemented the live cooking component of the test which includes a fair amount of baking.  Alta. and B.C. are the only two provinces that I know of that actually require live cooking as part of the test.


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## shanks

I live in Ontario, so I guess that I won't be cooking in my exam, but it would be cool to see what that would be like. The best advice I received before reading this site was "it's like a Food Theroy exam" and "read up on eels" so I am glad to be directed to some useful sites I found in this forum.


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## cheffy50

hello my friend I too took the test and failed by 1 mark

the guy at the office said to me

your gonna find some stupid questions that don't really pertain to the field anymore

How stupid is that

I find that evenif you cooked for the queen they wont touch you without the seal

even though the guy told me that its optional.


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## chef1997

You must remember that the red seal exams are a government controlled exam. Common sense is out the door. way back when I stuck to the book and reasonned out the answers that were not in the book but in the practicum. after and the seals are yours the art of culinary creation is yours to enjoy. 5 medals later i still love to compete and at times wing it. But you are absolutely right in your judgement. coffee is usually brewed at the highest temperature to extract all oils and flavor. chicken you are right but in saying chicken they didn't say fryer or roaster so size was implied. You can try to challenge the exam but be prepared to pay for it.My advice is to rewrite quickly so study time is minimal. Your knowledge and reason is commendable but some answers you will have to reason the wording out. Great luck


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## bongzilla

I know, I dont know everything, and ive only been in this game (as a serious profession) for 4 years but are there any text books or resource sites that anyone would suggest that would aid in the advancement of my education towards my red seal? I'd much rather work side by side my chef, and pick his/her brain but my current situation doesnt allow for much of that.

thanks


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## chef1997

You really have to think carefully here. the government is going to give you a multiple choice exam on the art of Cooking. that alone has so many paradoxes one can get lost.

Know your conversions of temp

Know your cuts of meats

know the styles of preparation

know the questions not asked and you will do fine.

I wrote the exam sick as a dog and rocked on the results. then try the competitions that is the mark of true art. Most restaurants and hotels will assist you for the free publicity. you cannot rest on your red seals and say that is that. you will find yourself improving daily on the most simple of things with gold medals as the real seals. Good Luck


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## fungi91

My question about the exam is a bit different. I was wondering what the formal process is for validating your 8,000 hours is.

Thanks


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## ruben s

Hi there , 

My name is Ruben go for red seal exam I have over 7000hrs and Diplima in Hotel mgmt 
Plz help me out study method and questionnaire for red seal I have reserved only 3 monrhs time for self-study !!!!

Plz any one who got experienced that would be grat to me

Thanks 

Ruben


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## bcboy

what books did you read? ive read this whole thread and this is by far the most intelligent input


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## frenchies

Hi BC boy!

Here's the first thing you need: Passion...if you truly love food, eating and appreciate flavours everything you read will stick (most of it anyways).

I don't have my red seal but have been cooking for as long as I can remember, so here is a partial list of all the books I've read and the ones I own :Escoffier,  Le grand Larousse Gastronomique(in French), Professional Chef (Culinary institute of America), Professional Cooking (Gisslen), Encyclopedia of cooking, Encyclopedia of Creative Cooking, Time Life series: Foods of the World and Cuisiner mieux and then slews of books...cooking books, books on wine, whiskey, preserves, baking, butchering, various cultures, food rites and rituals, street foods, books that specialize in herbs and spices, pasta..Also, online I have found sites with recipes that date back as far as the 14th century...very interesting and a very different look at food.

You need to cook for the right reason, passion for food, passion for eating. But for me this has a moral implication and this is why I try and honour the foods that I use: an animal gave it's life(probably not willingly) so that I could live and with this, I always want to honour that creature/food source by doing the best that I can at all times. I run a small restaurant of 25 seats and have less than 1% food waste.

There are a lot of aspects to this business, hope I've been able to help you a bit?!

L


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## rexy

I want to re-write my RS again this year for the 2nd time, hope to get from you guys a guide or a practice exam.  It was more than 2years now since I took my 1st exam, and was busy with my regular work.  Looking forward to get an answer from a good angel.


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## chefvanc

hi there

I will be doing my exam shortly , i am from Vancouver bc  , i had been studying from the book (on cooking and ita professional cook 1 / 2 / 3 ).i have 10 year experience . 

Does anyone know where i can get a mock exam? 

or any advice will be appreciated.

Thanks .


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## michaelga

chefvanc said:


> hi there
> 
> I will be doing my exam shortly , i am from Vancouver bc , i had been studying from the book (on cooking and ita professional cook 1 / 2 / 3 ).i have 10 year experience .
> 
> Does anyone know where i can get a mock exam?
> 
> or any advice will be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks .


There isn't a mock exam... If you want a multiple choice test - best bet is to move to Ontario, last I heard there were 2 really good Wendy's Chef's with their Red Seal.


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## foodpump

No... no mock ups are available, what's the point?

Advice?

-Know your temperatures, critical zones, food safety.  Know your basics of cooking (braising, gratinee, blanching in water and in oil, roasting, in an oven and without an oven, etc) Know your stocks and sauces.  Remember, Canada is a bi-lingual country, you are expected to know most of the names and procedures in French as well.

Put a lot of emphasis on the practical test.. Soon as you start, get your bread item and deserts going, and remember to clean as you go. Put  a strip of masking tape over the oven thermostat so you know if someone else has been messing with the oven that you didn't know about. Put your phone away in the bottom of your toolbox or better yet, leave it at home, this is one 4 hour block that you really have to focus on.

Hope this helps..

P.S.

Most employers know now that Alberta and B.C. have the best testing for the Red Seal.  That reputation isn't earned through tests soley comprised of multiple choice kweshtuns like a lot of other provinces still have....


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## kenneth chang

Hi chef......i am planning to write the exam soon,,,,,, could you please guide me and send me practice question to [email protected] please thanks Kenneth


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## alieklund

chefkakkat said:


> hey chef......i am planning to write the exam soon,,,,,,can u send me a copy of the paper to [email protected]?
> 
> is the name of the sauce "newburg" ??
> 
> thanks
> 
> rop


may i have one too?


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## alexrossii

what was the name of the sauce?


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## chef lionheart

*Hi CJL_2006 how are you? Im am planning to take that red seal exam too hope you can help me can i ask a copy of the mock exam your Chef gave you. Thanks in advance bro!
Heres my email add [email protected] *


CJL_2006 said:


> In Ontario you need 105/150 to pass or 70%. My score was 104/150 or 69%.
> 
> My chef professor from college is sending me a mock test. I'll send it to you if i can.


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## praties

For those asking for practice test questions:

CJL_2006 posted that in 2009 and hasn't made any posts since the three he/she made in this thread five years ago. I checked the Red Seal website and there's a 20 question sample of the sorts of things you'll find on the test here http://www.red-seal.ca/[email protected]?tid=54&fid=13

Good luck!


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## chef world

Hello Chefs,

I want to give my red seal exam this year. Which books to refer for the exam.

Thanks

Rohan


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## chefboyog

On Cooking, the book, has a Study Guide. It has kweshtuns in it. Ask a friend to ask random kweshtuons from the book. Practice the practical in real time, have your journeyman help. Do the work. Have fun.

Food pump you should challenge the test get it off your chest haha.

I have a mock question. Did your mother dress you? Oo yeah Im mocking them pants. You show up with PEPPER PANTS and dont think Im gonna say something. Those pants are hot etc etc. youve all been mocked. Carry on.

Anyone know does pro cooking books have study guides?


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## chefboyog

image.jpg




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chefboyog


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Oct 29, 2014


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## foodpump

Originally Posted by *chefboyOG*

Food pump you should challenge the test get it off your chest haha.

Anyone know does pro cooking books have study guides?

I already have a B.C. red seal. I did a three year cook's (NOT CHEF's) apprenticeship in '85--'88 in Switzerland. When I came to B.C. I could get an red seal equivalency for it.

The Go2 website (B.C. only) will give plenty of information of what kind of books need to be studied. Whatever province you're in should have an equivalent, and I.T.A. should haven links to your province and whatever is required

The only pro cooking book that has a study guide is "Classical cooking the modern way" by Pauli. Basically it's a companion book with about a thousand questions, with references to the associated chapters. This book was, and still is, as far as I know, the textbook for all Swiss cook's apprentices. If you don't know that book inside and out, you will never pass.

I tend to mock people who ask for copies of tests, for answers to tests, or for me to do thier homework. It's your credential--not mine, I owe nobody nothing.


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## chefboyog

"The only pro cooking book that has a study guide is "Classical cooking the modern way" by Pauli. "

You are stating that like its a fact when I posted earlier a picture of the guide I used. Very dismissive.

I meant Professional Cooking, the actual book: A lot of people seem to use this one:

[product="27507"]Set Professional Cooking For Canadian Chefs 8th Edition With Student Study Guide 8th Edition [/product]
Ah I see they grandfathered your red seal from your experience in Switzerland? Or you challenged it? You are/ were very heavy handed against the red seal IMO but thats your opinion. The practical obviously is done with the journeyman in On the job training. I got mine in 2008 and they still do mult choice in my province. I am not against practical testing by any means however.

We already had this conversation now I think about it haha another time another thread.

Im with you Foodpump on mocking people who are looking for the actual test questions. Cheating won' t get you too far, sillypants!

I am all for people furthering their knowledge by whatever means presented to them we all get different opportunities in life, not all including a view of the alps.


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## foodpump

Prior to 2010 I was totally against the red seal in B.C.

After 2010 I'm all for it

Why?

That's when the criteria changed.  No more 150 "mutipul chos" kweshtuns, but instead a real test, but more importantly a real practical exam with real time limits and real Chefs looking over your shoulder.

Heckuva change...

Basically a whole new test, and at least this time the emphasis is on cooking.  What a concept!

As well, the Province is phasing out the whole "Challenging" crapola.  You write your  cook I, then Cook II, then you can write your Cook III.  No more "challenging".  You see, the ITA figures that if you "challenge" you know everything, this includes what books to read and how to prepare yourself for the exam.  Which is why nobody knows what to expect or how to prepare.


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## chefboyog

When did you get your red seal  ( I dont really care).

I am for the new system I think that is great. I hope it catches on across Canada. Especially because it seems CCC is losing momentum. Although Im still interested in pursuing that CCC and doing a practical in kitchen test.


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## bontar

Just got back into working in kitchens after a Long hiatus. debating on going through the work for my Red Seal. I cooked for a very long time and did have some culinary training in the past as well. I am wondering, Is it worth it to get my Red Seal? would i make much more, is it worth the time? I'm mid way up on Vavcouver island so i don't even know if there would even be better work out here. lord knows theres not much here period unless your a kid. I'm in my early 40's, is it to late?

Thanks for any advice.


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## chefboyog

Be like nike.

Ask yourself; do I like to learn? Do I like to write exams?

Why the F not. Dont be lazy.


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## spoiledbroth

Hehe stumbled upon sauce nantua and variations thereof in a cookbook today.


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## fablesable

@Bontar I am of the mind that if you want to work for someone else and make a decent wage through corporate restaurants, hotels, etc. then it is a good idea to get your Red Seal. Other than that, I don't think it is relevant if you are able to cook decently, follow instruction/recipe, and can handle the hours and workload. The Red Seal is a ponzi scheme (IMO) as they get you to pay extortionate amounts of money to get "certified" to do the same things my grandparents did for a living without a Red Seal. But that is just one's opinion and not to be read nor taken for advice. I have however, met more people with insane amounts of skill and enthusiasm in the kitchen who do not have their Red Seal than people with Red Seals that cannot cook nor have a good attitude for the world of food. The choice is yours. I caution to do your homework and ask MILLIONS of questions of the people who are in the industry to formulate your plan for the future.

I wish you well! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif


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## jessore01

Hi There,

I have more than 9000 hrs working experience in culinary field. I heard if anybody have 8000 hrs working experience, he can appear Red Seal Chef exam. But the things is what document need to be submitted that proof  I have 8000 hrs working hours. plese let me know if u have information


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## chefboyog

Fablesable said:


> @Bontar
> The Red Seal is a ponzi scheme (IMO) as they get you to pay extortionate amounts of money to get "certified"


Every other trade has certification. 
The apprenticeship grant actually pays you to get your blocks and seal, up to 4k ( about 1k each exam). If you are making typical kitchen pay, then going on EI and getting the grant will net you more whike you complete blocks.

@Jessore01 there used to be a " grandfather clause" that let you challenge the seal. They may or may not let you, the provincial govt runs it. Contact your local Apprenticeship office, community college, cook school etc they should all know or be able to find out. In my opinion the hours should be done under supervision if a journeyman and while indentured in the program.


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## chefmarcel

bro you have to get a book called "ON COOKING" its the official book at least in Ontario.. maybe you can get a variant where you are.


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## shiva kumar

Hello Chefs,

iam planning to take a red seal exam in 2 months time anybody can suggest any online study material  like online course please..,


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## chefboyog

Amazon.ca Will sell you this book for about 60$

NB Canada just switched to it from " on Cooking" recently.

CIA of America textbook. Professional Chef

[product="6204"][/product]

Good luck on your exam.


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## aman puri

Hello there!

I recently graduated from college with post grad in culinary management. During my course of studies i was also working at various places including some known hotels in Toronto. I am an international student and was not eligible for apprenticeship for 3 years and now doing that doesn't make any sense. I am looking forward to give my red seal exam as soon as possible. I dont have 6000 hours as of now and therefore i was going through the rules and requirements for a journey person and was wondering if my education could be considered any ways and if i could be eligible to give my red seal before completing 6000 hours. I have been working at various hotel setups and find red seal as a requirement at most of the setups to grow. 

I second your opinions that red seal is not only the way to determine a chef or cook, there is much more to be a successful. 

Looking forward to your valuable advice and views on the situation.

Thanks peeps.


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## rbrad

Your time in school should count as 2000 hours which will let you write your first block....ask your chef or contact the apprenticeship department.


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## armond kearns

well said!


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## armond kearns

Good evening

hello new to this forum and this site,..

I am soon going to write the red seal exam as I would like to get into LTC facilities,... apparently a requirement to get into these places,

I have been in this industry for many many years now and I'm wanting to shift career placement

i'm looking to study something but haven't been able to find anything except for my school books from way way back (at least 25 years now)

any suggestions that I might look or just wing it as they say?


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## lewaxe

There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding the red seal in culinary around here, so hopefully I can clear up some big ones for you all.

Challenging levels of the program:

All you need is an employer to vouch for a certain number of hours (2000+ for levels one or 2, 5000+ for level 3*redseal*) in order to challenge.

Level one covers fundamentals such as mother sauces, knife skills, stocks, and basic cooking techniques.

Level two covers advanced cooking such as consomme, terrines, small sauces, desserts, all at the fine dining level.

Level 3 is a full review of the previous two levels, plus some specialty techniques such as table side service, butchering entire sides of land animals, molecular gastronomy techniques, but is mostly the skills of the previous two levels combined.

You may challenge anything you have the hours for, but you cannot just challenge a red seal.

In order to actually get a red seal you need to gain equivalency for level 3 by passing the practical exam for that level, and passing the written test afterwards. Then you must have a red seal chef you presumably are apprenticing under send a letter of recommendation for red seal certification to the ITA.

At the end of a successful challenge, you will have a PC3 equivalency, but not necessarily the red seal itself.


What I can tell you who challenge is that the practical exam is NOTHING like working the line at work.

Have you ever seen Iron Chef? Because that is exactly what it is like, only rather than all your dishes be up at once, you have a predetermined set of serving times for each course that you present, with an allowable deviation of 10 minutes per course, and you have a very limited workspace.

You have to set up your station, find all the tools and ingredients hidden around, weigh and portion everything, prep everything, butcher everything, and you have no time for confusion in an unfamiliar setting.

You can't simply go for broke, because if you prep too much you will be dinged for food wastage, so you will be needing that scale for everything.
You are to create a work plan beforehand outlining every amount of every item you need, and every step you will be making throughout the day, and present this to your instructor before the assessment.

All levels require a demonstration of every cooking fundamental, with level 3 demanding fine dining quality, levels 1 and 2 need only be acceptable.

The tests are LOADED with obscure questions, so if you can't readily answer such questions as "what is Sauce Robert?" or "To which family does a Jerusalem artichoke belong?" and "Is osso buco a poached dish?" you are more than likely going to fail the test, regardless of how good you are with cookery.

My advice for those who must challenge is to simply go to any near by college offering the program and buy a copy of the text book in use, they will HAPPILY sell you anything you can ask for.

Or, call and ask what the required text book is and then Ebay a copy if you can't afford the price, but it is an investment well worth the cash, and comes with digital content and a companion work book if you buy new.
There are several textbooks that are in use currently, and are all pretty much the same, a couple examples would be "On Cooking" and "Professional cooking for Canadian chefs".

I had challenged level one after 8 years of industry experience, 5 as a sous, and I did not find it easy at all, passed by the skin of my teeth, thanks to a friend gifting me his old textbook. Without that book I would have failed the written without a doubt.
Make SURE you get the book, a good highlighter, and memorize everything relevant, right down to the recipes.

French terminology translations are even a part of the testing, including food costing calculations, food safe, and everything in between.

Does a Red Seal make you an amazing line cook by default? Well, no it does not, but, Can any experienced line cook challenge a red seal? No way in hell.

The course is not a joke. You have to become the guy who can answer anything culinary within reason, to pass the red seal tests without lucking out and scratching through, so don't take it lightly. Study that book until you have a firm grasp of each chapter, scout out the facility of your practical assessment before time to familiarize yourself with it's layout, and time will be your number one enemy during a practical exam.

My take away perspective on the red seal in the industry is that a Cook's resume will testify that they are good in a real kitchen, but the red seal will testify that they have a knowledge of everything culinary and industry.


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## welldonechef

Great analogy. I passed my red seal exam in 2000. I went to school, and I apprenticed. Let me give you my takeaway... 

I find that the people who dog the red seal are the ones who never took it seriously in the first place. The thought that all you had to do was work XXX hours and you'll be able to challenge the exam is ludicrous. Sorry but it just doesn't work that way. 

The red seal exam is set up so you can have the foundation for your CCC exam. Yes, there are a LOT of obscure questions on the red seal exam, but then again, you are supposed to be as knowledgeable as the person who actually learned and took the time to study the test. 

Why do you need to know that coffee brewing times? Temperature? Well, there may come a time when that's good knowledge to have, when the FOH manager is freaking because the customers are complaining the coffee isn't up to par. You could call in the company to come troubleshoot, or you could have the tidbit you learned from being an apprentice and went through your breakfast block in school. 

I'm sure you know tonnes of people who have their red seal who suck. I'm not sure why people think that means the designation is not good. I can point you to a lot of professions that suffer the same thing. 

I agree with the resume.. I'll add something. As an apprentice I recieved my blue book... I was told that the book was like my resume. What I put into my apprenticing, I would get out of it. 

So, I took the time to get it all done. Every bit of it. Cakes? Made them. Forcément? Made it. Why? So I would have that knowledge. 

Wrote the red seal exam in 40 minutes, scored 92%. I'm not a scholar and I didn't do all that well in school growing up. But, I put the time into learning the Professional Cooking and On Cooking using flash cards that I made. 

This is how you do it. I still have the flash cards, in fact I showed them to my wife the other day. I can't bring myself to throw them out LOL

Oh, and as of this year the red seal brings a designation to your title. R. S. E. 

So, Jason Sandeman, R.S.E


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## armond kearns

_Awesome! thank you!_


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## leverd

Hi chef..
I am giving Red seal exam this is my third time..
Can I know what happens if I fail 3rd time too.
How many chances will be given ??

Thanks


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## trevorunc

Totally agree 100% with you on this!!! I sent  resume in for a job and NOWHERE on it did it say i was red sealed or even that i hinted at it and was still hired for the sous chef position at said restaurant. Now i am just unsure if i should even mention it to him or just let it ride out??


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## foodpump

Leverd said:


> Hi chef..
> I am giving Red seal exam this is my third time..
> Can I know what happens if I fail 3rd time too.
> How many chances will be given ??
> 
> Thanks


I.T.A.

That stands for Industry Training Authority. Google it, get the branch that's in your Province, and find all about the Red seal and its rules and regulations from there.

Hope this helps

P.S. Most Provinces only let you flunk the Red Seal twice.....


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## essenkommen

Hello Saskatchewan boy,

this is Saskatchewan girl.

I am looking to challenge the Red Seal exam as I've been in the industry for almost 10 years and I feel it will maximize my career opportunity.
I believe it will allow me to attain the jobs I am looking for with a little more ease, as well as a higher pay rate right off the bat.
I have the experience and skills to back my time in the industry, but am quite nervous for the exam...as I am dyslexic.

Can you point out any key points to study? 
I've heard of many random questions, such as milk temperature for a latte, Waldorf salad components, tables for chafers at an event....etc. etc...

If you can answer this specifically to the Saskatchewan exam that would be righteous....

Thanks!


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## essenkommen

Hey,

I'm actually looking into applying at a local prison in order to bank coin as well.... I would also like to be involved in a different work environment than that of the relentless kitchens I've worked in for the last decade...
Would you say working under a Gov't job would give me a bit of a break compared to what I've been experiencing in industry thus far?
I just want my weekends and affordable pay wage


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## foodpump

I dunno, try the instructors at Kelsey.  Each Prov. has their own rules for the red seal, and their own series of questions.  Like I said in the above post, google the I.T.A. and find the chapter in Sask.,there should be a lot more info on their website.

Gov't jobs?  Usually all union.   Kiss a** to get a p/t shift, kiss some more and wait by your phone for the on-call shifts, and maybe in as few as 5 years you can actually get 3 0r 4 consecutive 160 hr mths to qualify for f/t. position.  And then they'll privatize the whole thing and you can start all over again......,


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## essenkommen

I am in contact with Kelsey still..and the info I have is still limited due to confidentiality. 
I have also checked the site..same shit. 
It's okay, I'llet figure it out. 

In regards to jobs...well, I guess this is the kitchen industry......


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## gerald francis

Hello all I have study for my red seal I kept coming short need some help 780-594-5584


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## interlop

can you please send it to me 

thank you soooooo much


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## foodpump

interlop said:


> can you please send it to me
> 
> thank you soooooo much


Uhhhh....why?

Is there some urban myth about someone sending out mock exams for free?

You are "challanging" the red seal. That means the I. T.A. is assuming that you know what to expect on the test, and that you have taken steps to educate yourself on the whole process.

This is the one gov't recognized qualification that thr Cdn hospitality industry has, the Americans don't even have one. Don't make this a joke by expecting a cheat sheet in your email inbox.

Hope this helps. Usually I tell requesters like you to buy their "papers"in packs of 24 or48 (double ply) at the supermarket


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## vic thankinggod

Hi,

   I am a line cook and getting ready for my red seal exam, can you kindly send me some of the mock test to practice on that b4 my exam?

i will really appreciate it,if i get some from someone very experience like you.

hope to hear from you soon.

thanks

vic


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## JaimeBCN

Hi to all Chefs! I'm from Barcelona, and I've been cooking for 9 years 2 of those spent at school to gain my certifications . Now to become a certified cook in Canada I have to get the Alberta Qualification Certificate because apparently my Cook certificate from Spain doesn't mean anything in Canada (which I totally respect) which I believe is the same exam as the Red Seal. I've gone through the Professional Cooking 7th Edition and paid $100 at 2 different websites to get some sample questions. The thing is I just wanted to know any advice from chefs that actually did the test (passed or not passed) to be ready and to know what to expect on the questions. 

Thanks in advance!


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## sgmchef

Government test here in the states have to list the sources for testing standards. Maybe if you could find what the heck they are using for source material for their questions you might fare better.


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## Jaype

leverd said:


> Hi chef..
> I am giving Red seal exam this is my third time..
> Can I know what happens if I fail 3rd time too.
> How many chances will be given ??
> 
> Thanks


Hi, I just new in this forum so how was your third attempt so far? what was your preparations for your third attempt? Please give me more information. Thank you!


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## Transglutaminase

Hi Jaime.
Sorry you had to pay $$ for sample questions.
At the risk of re-posting, there are free online sample questions for the Canadian/BC red seal;
http://www.red-seal.ca/s.1mpl.2.2x.1mQ.5.2st.3.4ns-eng.html?tid=54
Also, there are a few restaurants, at least here in BC, that are more then willing to help you obtain your red seal (was told "White Spot" was one).
G'Luck!


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