# A guy calling himslf a chef and is NOT



## baldguy96 (Dec 28, 2009)

Recently I ran across a website run by a guy in Australia called Liveeatandlisten.tv He calls himself the singing CHEF. I inquired of him where he went to culinary school as I saw no mention of any schooling in his Bio. He replied acting rather defensive saying that " it doesn't matter what you call yourself". I told him that "chef" is an earned title and that you just can't call yourself a chef anymore than you can just call yourself a Dr., or a lawyer, or a priest, or a pilot. I explained to him that chefs are trained individuals that spent time and money learning a specific craft and it was offensive that he would just call himself a chef without having earned the title. Maybe if he heard from more professional people in the industry than just me, he might change his thinking.Especially any Australian Chefs. This guy is a imposter.


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

A lot of people do this, particularly on the food network. Restaurant owners often do this when they are interviewed. Only problem is when orders start to fly and burners start to light they can't take the heat or the pressure. Everyone can talk a good game , but to produce it????????


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Darn straight!

BDL


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## thegardenguru (Dec 4, 2009)

Legally, one must have an MD or PhD to call themself a "Dr." or "doctor".

Legally, one must have a JD to call oneself a "lawyer"

"priest" has many and messy definitions, some "legal", some common.

Anyone who can fly a plane can call themselves a "pilot", whether they've had "professional" training or schooling or not.

When it comes to being a "chef", the best definition I could find is that a "chef" is a "professional cook" and in some definitions, "the head of a [commerical"?] kitchen".

As far as I know, culinary schools do not bestow one the "title" of chef. A "PhC", a "CD"?

Certainly, we have the romantic connotations of "chef". I'm sure the members of this forum would like others to honor the consensual concept, yes?

Your antagonist, baldguy, reminds me of a celebrity in my primary field of horticulture. He calls himself "America's Master Gardener". He made up the title himself. He has no horticulture degree. And he urks the thousands of Americans who have taken additional training through cooperative extension services to earn the real title of "Master Gardener". Trouble is, he made up the phrase before the "Master Gardener" program was instituted.

Joe


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## bazza (Apr 2, 2007)

Ha ha this is going to be an interesting thread. This is an outrageous statement. :lol:


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Unless I'm totally misinformed, "chef" is a French word meaning "chief" in English and does not, necessarily, relate specifically to the culinary world, that is, one may be a "chef" as an electrician, plumber, mechanic, etc. It simply means "one who is in charge". In the military, the equivalent might be "Captain", "Major", "Colonel", or "General", depending on the unit size and has NOTHING to do with the mission of the unit.

Now, it is true, especially in the U.S.A., that "chef" has become generic for someone who is recognized as having "culinary skills", but that does NOT make it "official" in any sense of the word.

A "chef" is nothing more, nor less, than a manager of a unit, regardless of size or mission. (S)he is the one "in charge", period. QED.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

That's true but not entirely accurate. DO's for example today are for all intents and purposes the same as a MD. Two different medical phosophies but both doctors. Some medical schools (MSU) have both programs on the same campus so you just missed a few that have earned the title Doctor. Your dentist may be a Doctor as well if he/she is a DDS or DDM. 
I don't know if any one can regulate the title Chef. I bet if we took a poll only a fraction of those who would say they are Chef's on CT are currently certified by the ACF or any one else. I'd venture a guess that many have never been certified for that matter. 
Does this matter? I guess it depends on the individual and their ability to do more than talk a good game.


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## thegardenguru (Dec 4, 2009)

Thanks for the additional information DuckFat. I'm sure there's a few more "doctors" (e.g., DVMs). I was doing my best to make a simple point in but a few words.

Does ACF Certifications/Designations (CCC, CEC, CMC, PCC, etc.) make one a "chef"?

Joe


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## thegardenguru (Dec 4, 2009)

Was James Beard a "chef"? Was he "certified"?

Joe


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

It makes you certified.
Your ability makes you a Chef.
I would think if you were able to earn cerification you would display the skills necessary to earn the title Chef.

And to the OP, you need zero amount of formal training to be a Chef.
If you can walk the walk, you can talk all you want.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

IMO You can be a Chef with out being certified but certification offers credibility.
In my book if you are certified by the ACF or one of the other credible organizations world wide then yes you are a Chef or a cook as your certification indicates. You've proven that not only with a test and education in some form but with verified work experience. Not that others can't be Chefs but in the Case of the OP's antagonist if he would have responded....
I'm an ACF certified CEC then there wouldn't be a lot to debate. 
Now watching the twits on Hells Kitchen who all claim to be "Executive Chefs" is just comical. :lol:


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Beard was certainly a great "culinarian," but he wasn't certified. I'm not sure anyone was then. OTOH, he was a rather big deal caterer, so if caterers can be chefs he was one. Can they? What do you think? 

I dunno,
BDL


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

I call Beard a 'Gourmand' who cooked and mentored same as Julia, both were great in what they did, and they LOVED it/


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

Does it matter? After all we all know the reputation of James Beard or even Escoffier or Prosper Montagné. If we know their reputation then certification becomes a bit moot at some point. In the case of an unknown that's another story.


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## thegardenguru (Dec 4, 2009)

In the case of an unknown that's another story.[/QUOTE said:


> I just went to liveeatandlisten.tv, the website.
> 
> ("Big") Andy Seymour doesn't really pretend to be a "chef". In fact, he's quite open about his abilities. Actually, he's quite self-effacing.
> 
> ...


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## baldguy96 (Dec 28, 2009)

I am not trying to "ruin someones reputation"...just set someone straight. I am surprised at the liberal attitude here amongest culinary professionals about someone calling themselves a Chef when they are not. This guy calls himself the "singing chef"..he's not a Chef..it's misleading. Plain and simple.


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## thegardenguru (Dec 4, 2009)

That's the problem -- it's NOT "plain and simple".

Joe


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

WOW! Since your quoting me in that post I have to wonder what brought you to hurling insults my way. I'm not the OP and I have no idea who the person is that you are talking about or if they are a Chef or not. You might consider taking another look at your own posts before you start making statements like that. 
Plain and simple.


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## jim berman (Oct 28, 1999)

Please keep to the topic! Opinions are just that; one person's thoughts. ChefTalk is about sharing ideas and experiences, so please do so in a constructive manner or leave the playground with a note pinned to your toque, "Does not play well with the others!"

Thanks!


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## bazza (Apr 2, 2007)

Wasn't there a muppet called the Swedish Chef? 

There have been sooo many threads on the credibility of calling oneself Chef, I have never encountered this before except on Cheftalk. In England almost everyone in the brigade is a chef of one kind or another, there is no stigma about it at all, I can only deduce that it is an American thing.

There appears to be a strong opinion that unless you have been to culinary school you cannot be a "real" Chef, and in the OP's case 'an imposter'. In most parts of Europe that would be a very narrow minded point of view. Are you really suggesting that?

Here are some more imposters that come to mind;

Heston Blumenthal
Raymond Blanc
Annie Feolde 
Gordon Ramsay
Marco Pierre White
Rick Stein


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## thegardenguru (Dec 4, 2009)

Whoa Duckfat!

NONE of my posts were directed at you.

Did you read between my lines somewhere?

I'm trying to make a logical point about who can call themselves a chef.

I used "James Beard" as an example (was that me "quoting you"?).

Please re-read my posts and let me know if anything I said was directed at you -- or was directed at anyone here.

Sheesh and Thanks,
Joe


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

Bazza,

I agree with you.
You do not have to attend a culinary school or be certified by the ACF to be a chef.As you said in your post. almost all cooks in a classic brigade have "chef" attached to their designation.

Just to add to your list.

Pierre Gagnaire
Andre Soltner
Fredy Girardet
Gerard Boyer

BTW, what does "OP" stand for?


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## bazza (Apr 2, 2007)

Overenthusiastic people


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

As we are at your narrowminded viewpoint.
Had you not made the claim that you *need* a formal culinary education I might see where you're coming from.
As such, I've already wasted a part of my life on this thread and I'll never get it back, and am left wondering why.

Good luck to you in your endeavors.


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## nichole (Sep 16, 2009)

Very hot discussion you got here. Well on my own opinion baldguy is that, you don't need to earn title in order to be called one. I'll give you examples, can a title help you with your performance? Which would you prefer a title or skills? As long as your skill enough to handle the word "chef" and capable to handle kitchen. Then its not necessary to take title.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

Did I read between the lines?? You are quoting me and talking about ruining some ones reputation and "Chef's" that need to loose their title. Just a thought but if your going to quote some one and then drop a bomb like that in the same post it might be nice if you were a bit more succinct about who you are talking about. If that bit about ruining some ones reputation wasn't directed at any one here who was it directed at? Some one not involved with the conversation?
Sheesh indeed.
As I said I'm not the OP (original poster) so nothing I'm posting in regards to being a Chef is about any one person. 
Back to the topic at hand. I have no idea where others are getting that there is a strong opinion that you have to go to school to be a Chef. I only see one poster that feels that way. You don't have to go to culinary school to be ACF certified or be a Chef.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

this thread sooo reflects my day today....

I will post it new but I must say that I am self taught for the most part and well. I was the kitchen at my last job as I was THE cook....


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## thegardenguru (Dec 4, 2009)

DuckFat:

I quoted you two or three times. And used those quotes to continue my point about what constitutes a "chef". It had nothing to do with you.

The reality is that there are many posts here, all dovetailed in amongst each other. Sometimes it's hard to attach one post to the post to which it was intended to respond. it does get confusing as to what is directed at whom.

"Ruining one's reputation" is directed at no one specifically; it is directed at anyone who would go after "The Singing Chef" because he chose to use the word "chef".

No "bombs". "Points".

I accuse you of nothing, I've said nothing bad about you (certainly not intentionally) yet if you feel that any of my posts were truly personal attacks on you, DuckFat, please say so and I will apologize.

I'm not sure this is the kind of forum that I'll find intellectually relaxing.

Joe


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## baldguy96 (Dec 28, 2009)

Ok..well according to these previous post here.... even though I've never had ANY culinary school I am now going to start calling myself a Chef.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Whether or not you have "formal culinary training" is irrelevant as to whether or not one can be referred to as "chef".

To me, IF you are the chief of your unit, station, kitchen, workplace, etc., you might be considered a "chef", whether you arrived at that point by formal education or through the "school of hard knocks".

If you want to call yourself a "chef", go ahead, those in the "trade" will either agree or disagree. When someone else calls you "chef", bask in the momentary glory 

And if you just graduated from culinary school or are not the "chief" of your unit, station, kitchen, or workplace, don't expect anyone to agree with you.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

It's obvious Baldguy thinks if he goes to culinary school he will come out a Chef, and those who don't go, no matter how many years in the business or who they train under, never can call themselves Chef.
He is mistaken on both counts.

I blame the media, and the aggressive culinary schools.


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## buonaboy (Sep 5, 2007)

You can call yourself a "chef" when you successfully run a kitchen, you may have to attach "sous" to it, but chef none the less.

I'll try and prove a point here: 
Am I a Chef?, 
-my toque says CDC, I work the line every night and write just about all the recipes
-twenty years in the industry
-opened 4 restaurants (not all my own), working on the 5th
-two trips working in Italy with Master Chefs
-not one hour of formal culinary school training, ****, I didn't even finish high school.


Now let's take an acquaintance of mine I worked with for a very short time,
-full culinary education
-opened a few notable hotel restaurants
-been on tv, food mags, the whole deal (15 years ago)
-wears a stained polo shirt to work
-does nothing except piss-off his CDC
-hasn't opened his knife bag or come up with a recipe in years
-"works" about 20 hours a week -sitting in an office, surfing the web or harassing the servers. 
-couldn't work the line if his life depended on it. 

....So, even though it says "Chef" on his business card, I dont consider him one


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## caterchef (Oct 12, 2009)

WOW 31 posts in 9 hours!
It sure must be slow between Christmas and New Years!
What can I say? I'm not sure if you need my input but,
I always considered the title CHEF an honorary Title 
bestowed on the top person by the respectful employees of a very busy kitchen. Although I have worked in busy kitchens (for a short time I might add) that the top person was not even a good cook. In those cases you could address that person as Mister or Hey ***! etc. For it is the staff that makes a kitchen productive.
You can go to school and learn the concepts of volume feeding.
To be a pilot there are "flight simulators", there is no such thing in Culinary Arts. You have to get behind "The Line" hopefully with a good experienced Chef because there are alot of things you just can't write down, you have to experience it. Once you get enough
experience your peers will let you know when earn the title Chef.
You can call a spade a spade, that dosen't say you are playing cards.
_( You could be gardening! ) :thumb:_


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## jim berman (Oct 28, 1999)

It appears as though the topic has been explored to its extent and has taken a left turn. Let's lock it up and move on.

If you are interested in this particular topic, the definition of chef as well as chef vs. cook, it has been exhaustively discussed over the past 10 years here on ChefTalk. Use the search tool to find older threads.


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