# Passover



## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

I have been invited to a Seder. I don't want to show up empty handed so I thought I would bring some baked goods. As an Episcopalian type person I am unaware of the traditions, rules and regulations of baking for Passover. Anyone care to enlighten me?


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## m brown (May 29, 1999)

find out how the host feels about food gifts. traditional passover baked goods contain no leavening, lots of matzo meal and no dairy. find out what you can bring! some hosts are not strict with their meal and others are very. 
enjoy!


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

I'm hoping, that since the hostess is an instructor at I.C.E, she feels OK about food gifts  For my purposes, I really want to bake things that follow the rules.


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## compassrose (Jun 1, 2001)

I have heard (from strict friends) that some people will not eat anything come from a kitchen they don't know... whether or not the actual ingredients are safe or not. I think there are rules about purifying utensils and such for Passover too.

According to the same strict friends, if you want to bring food gifts for Passover that can be enjoyed by all, you are better to go to a deli or something and bring something bought that has been officially certified.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

I know of kosher homes that have 2 sets of dishes and even 2 dishwashers. I have checked and my host is not that strict. I would doubt that she would even object to flour in the baked goods. I think it would be nice to honor tradition, as well as expand my baking horizon, by baking according to the rules.


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## caisa (Mar 11, 2002)

I think it's really nice to invite ***** to pesach dinner. It's really a very special holiday for us.

I won't go into all the different rules of the kashrut and history of religious holidays...

try:

www.jewfaq.org

lots of great info and links!


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## suzanne (May 26, 2001)

Hey, Kyle! Unfortunately, what you do best (yeast breads) is exactly what is prohibited for Passover. NO LEAVENING!!!!! Breads are really limited to matzo, which is not much fun to try to make. Everything (mixing, shaping, baking) has to be done within 18 minutes, to be really kosher. (18 = "life" in Hebrew).

However: how's your spongecake? If you can do a really good one, or a cake using a nut flour and eggs, it is sure to be a hit. The worst memories I have from my childhood are of my mother's attempts at Passover cake-baking. Everything always came out like lead sinkers. Including her "Passover bagels" which resembled the real thing only in shape. Relatives loved them, but ...  

In the non-baking realm, spring vegetables are a welcome addition to the Passover table. Roasted asparagus, perhaps?

If all else fails, I'll bet you can find a good shop with decent kosher-for-passover wines.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

I know! they've taken my best club out of my bag  And no dairy either. I think this is going to be fun!


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## athenaeus (Jul 24, 2001)

I don't know how the Jews of NYork are but the ones of Israel do not have double dish-washers etc etc they are very friendly and open minded 

Kyle

What about bringing to them what your mom made or your grandmother or someone from your family.

Prepare it, write the recipe to a nice piece of paper and the story of the ...bread. They must feel flatered for sharing something so personal like the family tradition.

Dare this. I insist


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Perhaps a flourless chocolate cake in the form of a crucifix? With I.N.R.I in white icing? Are you trying to get me thrown out ? 

It's good to have you back Athenaeus


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## athenaeus (Jul 24, 2001)

HAHAHAHAHA :lol:

Thanks Kyle, I had a bad day, I needed that !!!


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

dacquise with a parve chocolate....
I'm making flourless chocolate cake for the orthodox student I've been cooking with for 3 years.
Holidays are really funky....there are alot of traditions with passover, don't be offended if food is declined. It's religious.
Great that you got invited, it's a special time for families.


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## breadster** (Aug 21, 2001)

hi kyle-

i agree with all that has been said-and there are so many varying degrees of observance

however, even the most non-religious-non-practising(sp?) Jews
will not have anything with flour or leavening in the house during the week of Passover- especially if they are having a seder

they wont be able to serve or eat it - if you bring something
"leavened"

at our bakery we do four things that are a big hit at Passover

Flourless chocolate cake
Filled nut tortes 
Coconut macaroons (thanks everyone for your suggestions)
French macaroons

for example, both our flourless and nut tortes called for a bit of flour- we substitute more ground nuts and potato starch to make up the difference

most of our customers are happy that there is no flour

corn starch and corn syrup are also no no' s

there are certain wines that are "Kosher for Passover"- 

good luck and enjoy! a traditonal seder is very interesting and delicious!


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

I have been informed by my host that flour is out but dairy is OK.

I have an ameretti that's nothing but almond paste, sugar and egg whites. Also a meringue cookie that is just sugar and egg whietes. I'm gonna take a serious run at the flourless chocolate cake.


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

Everyone here has offered great advice, and I truly think, Kyle, that your choices are excellent. It's better to use recipes that simply don't require flour, than to try to experiment and alter existing recipes. 

Incidentally, if you wanted to take the meringue idea a step further, you could doll it up with whipped cream and fruit (since dairy is allowed):lips: And that'll go well with the cake too!


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Kyle,
I was in your shoes a couple of years back. I went with a few small thing like you are thinking. amaretties,meringues, I added and rolled ground nuts and all that.
I must tell you from what I experienced was not food or material things, their intention was to just arrive with me. This was one of a couple of things I will always remember. After leaving their home I can never recall being so honored to be invited and be a part of their beliefs. Sorry mushy. Have a great time.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

I am beginning to appreciate the honor that is being invited to someone's home for Passover. Even though I have been given The Dairy Exemption, I am going to try and stick close to the rules. Nick Malgieri has several different macaroons in his cookie book. One is a coffee flavored sandwich with ganache in between.
For the main dessert, everywhere I look I see flourless chocolate cake. Have Jews across America been limited to this for centuries? Anybody have an alternative?


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

Worse than flourless chocolate cake, Jews have settled for kosher for Passover cake mixes, which are usually dry and bland. It wasn't until recent years that many began to realize there ARE other choices out there.


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## risa (May 11, 2001)

You can also check out the . Marcie Goldman usually has some very good recipes. One of her current topics is "Chocolate Saves Seder."


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

At recipesource.com , which used to be SOAR, I found a Chocolate Espresso Torte. Eggs, margarine, chocolate, sugar and brewed espresso. No almond flour or matzoh meal! Looks more like a cross between a custard and a cheese cake than a faux cake. They also had a passover mandelbrot which looks like fun.

I've read that kosher margarine is ok, even if The Dairy Ban is in effect. Is this true?

Thanks Risa, I'll check it out.


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## m brown (May 29, 1999)

margarine is fine, no dairy in most~


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

With Passover coming soon many newspapers printed passover recipes this week. Some were actually quite nice.


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## dear abby (Mar 7, 2002)

My dear Kyle,

Since the late 1980's, Chef Henri has liked to use this recipe at the beautiful, ritualistic meal known as the Passover Seder. This recipe has passed through so many hands that Dear Abby fears she cannot credit the original source, but like the torte itself, this recipe is simply too good not to share!

While Dear Abby is not Jewish herself, she has many times celebrated Passover with others. When invited to share the experience of a traditional Passover Seder with close friends, Dear Abby asks Henri to whip up this dessert to grace the Seder table.

Not just another flourless chocolate cake -- this one is special. This torte is very rich, has a velvety texture and a shiny chocolate glaze. Unlike so many Passover desserts (which are of necessity a compromise), this is one that you will enjoy serving at any time of year.

Grand Marnier may be substituted for the orange juice in the glaze, if no one objects. Since poor, clumsy Chef Henri has managed to spill the entire bottle of orange-flavored liqueur every year single year, your Dear Abby has never tasted the version with Grand Marnier, but the fresh orange juice flavor is delightful.

The *spirited* Chef Henri cautions everyone not to let this cake overbake! As it cools, it will firm up.

Poppy Seed Chocolate Torte with Chocolate-Orange Glaze

6 ounces semisweet chocolate
3/4 cup poppy seeds (about 3 1/2 ounces)
1/4 pound (1 stick) unsalted margarine (or butter) at room temperature
3/4 cup sugar
6 large eggs, separated
Dash of cream of tartar
1/3 cup orange marmalade

Grease an 8 or 9-inch x 2-inch cake pan or springform pan. Line the bottom with parchment or waxed paper. Set aside.

Melt 6 ounces chocolate in top of double boiler over simmering water. Grind poppy seeds in coffee grinder or processor for about 40 seconds or until they begin to pulverize and are partially ground.

In mixing bowl, cream together butter and sugar using an electric mixer. Add egg yolks one at a time, beating after each addition. Stir in poppy seeds and chocolate. In separate bowl, beat egg whites until frothy. Add cream of tartar and beat until stiff peaks form. Stir in a small amount of whites into chocolate mixture to lighten it, then gently fold in the rest. Pour into prepared pan.

Bake at 350 for 40 to 50 minutes or until toothpick inserted near center comes out almost clean and top is cracked and crusty. A small amount of chocolate on the toothpick means cake will be moist and fudgy. Do NOT overbake.

Remove to cooling rack and cool 10 minutes. Invert pan on rack and pull off paper. Cool completely. After cooling, at this point the cake may be wrapped and refrigerated for no more than 2 days, or may be frozen.

Slice cake in half horizontally. Place top layer, cut side up, on serving plate lined with waxed paper. Spread cake with marmalade. Place bottom layer, smooth side up, on top.

Orange-Chocolate Glaze

3 ounces semisweet chocolate
1 1/2 tablespoons orange juice
3 tablespoons unsalted Passover margarine (or butter) at room temperature

In double boiler over simmering water, melt chocolate. Stir in orange juice. Remove from heat and stir in butter. Refrigerate or stir over ice water until thick enough to spread. Spread over top and sides of cake. Remove waxed paper from serving plate. Refrigerate torte several hours before serving. (May be refrigerated overnight) Yes, it may also be frozen, but be aware that the glaze will lose its pretty shine.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Abby, Baby! You Rock!


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## dear abby (Mar 7, 2002)

You are quite welcome, Kyle. Let Dear Abby know how it turns out.

Abby


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## annie (Mar 22, 2002)

Hello -
I just found this forum - thanks to KyleW! The master french pastry chef I apprenticed with was on a public radio program this week, and he posted some of his passover recipes. 
http://www.here-now.org/topics/_food/food_020320.asp
Meringue layers, fruit, almond cream without the flour - there are a lot of lucious combinations.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Ya did? Are you a Baking Circle poster? Anyway welcome! Thanks for the info


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## annie (Mar 22, 2002)

yes - amc in the Baking Circle. I may be as compulsive about pastry as you are about bread - naaawh! I finishe dmy apprenticeship with just the wrong timing. While I'm looking for the position which will recognize my genius potential  it's wonderful to talk about food. I tell my (expanding) husband that all of this baking is "Finding my voice" as a chef. Birds gotta swim, fish gotta fly, chefs gotta cook!
Nice to bump into you.
Ann


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Well you've come to the right place for sympathy, empathy and information on all things chefly


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## angrychef (Jan 15, 2001)

Hi Kyle. The catering company I work for does a lot of Passover meals. I do a version of a flourless chocolate torte with toasted ground nuts as the sub for flour. Very dark, dense and tasty. Other choices for dessert: marjolaine(nut meringue layers sandwhiched with chocolate and hazelnut buttercream or choc. mousse), strawberry chantilly chiffon cake, coconut macaroons, almond macaroons, passover apple tart tatin, meringue nests with fresh fruit, florentine cookies, caramel matzoh brittle, etc.


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## angrychef (Jan 15, 2001)

Hi Kyle. The catering company I work for does a lot of Passover meals. I do a version of a flourless chocolate torte with toasted ground nuts as the sub for flour. Very dark, dense and tasty. Other choices for dessert: marjolaine(nut meringue layers sandwhiched with chocolate and hazelnut buttercream or choc. mousse), strawberry chantilly chiffon cake, coconut macaroons, almond macaroons, passover apple tart tatin, meringue nests with fresh fruit, florentine cookies, caramel matzoh brittle, etc.

Hope enjoy your Passover dinner.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Thanks AC

I'm having a dress rehearsal this weekend. So far I've decided on the chocolate espresso torte. Abby Baby's Rippin Poppy Seed Power Torte and the fllourless mandelbrot. I'm very curious bout the mandelbrot. As I think I will end up with excess egg whites fom the chocolate things, I also have cream of tartar, caster sugar and assorted flavorings at the ready.

Film @11!


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## m brown (May 29, 1999)

the other day i made chocolate covered marshmallow with my left over whites. 
4 parts sugar boiled approx 245 f.
1 part whites
gelatine (10 sheets per 1/2 cup whites)
salt 
vanilla
toasted whole almonds

belcolade dark enrobing chocolate

you could do this with kosher ingredients!
ie agar agar in place of gelatine.

i thought of you while the kitchen staff was loving the scrapes of marshmallow~~ :lips:


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

I've seen you in the country club where I used to work. Both of you.

Kuan


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

We used to make killer passover popovers as big as your head. I don't know the exact proportions, but it's probably 4 cup matzo flour, 1 quart water, about 15-18 eggs or about enough eggs as it will take. It's exactly like pate au choux. The only difference being no butter, and you spray the pans before you make them just like popovers. Don't forget some salt too.

Kuan


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## athenaeus (Jul 24, 2001)

Kyle

I hope that you will organize a...press conference about the results of your experiments

I am making Dear Abby's cake too today or tomorrow morning and I will post my results

Mbrown's marshmallows though...:lips: :lips:


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Well the results are in. I went .75 for 2. The espresso chocolate torte didn't work out as I had hoped. On the other hand, Abby Baby's Rippin Poppy Seed Power Torte shows definate promise! I think I under baked it a little as even after it cooled the center was a little loose. I cut it and did the marmalade and glaze thing. The flavor was really good. This morning (Breakfast of Champions) it had set up nicely. It had a nice fudge like consistency. I think a little more oven time and letting it sit in the fridge over night before halve it and "dress" it and we could have a winner Way to go Abby Baby!


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## athenaeus (Jul 24, 2001)

Kyle

I had the same problem...  

I made it early this morning

In fact I confess that I put it back to oven because it was almost raw... :blush:

Now I will have it rest and cool for good before I dare to cut it and glaze it

The flavour is definetely good


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

While I'm sorry to hear of your travails, I' m glad it wasn't just me  I followed the warning signs, the top was nice and cracked and the toothpick had just a bit of cake on it, but still it seemed under baked.


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## athenaeus (Jul 24, 2001)

Maybe Henri is upset for Dear Abby shares his secrets in public forums and gives her wrong recipes   

Or Kyle...maybe he is upset for you calling her Abby Baby...Chefs can be really jealous...


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## dear abby (Mar 7, 2002)

My dearest Athenaeus,

Gracious! Your own Dear Abby must remind you that she risks the big spoon when she relays these things to Chef Henri. But for you, my pet, she will do it!

She went to Henri and told him of your troubles and those of the esteemed Kyle.

Chef Henri sighed deeply, put down his handful of spoons and reached for his yellow Bic BrightLiner. He highlighted the following line on his faded copy of the Poppy Seed Chocolate Torte recipe:

*Bake at 350 for 40 to 50 minutes or until toothpick inserted near center comes out almost clean* and top is cracked and crusty.

Henri then looked at Dear Abby and she feared the worst, but he merely explained:

(You must understand, Abby asked Florence to be there in order to transcribe what Henri said, but also to help protect her from any flying spoons!)

" There are many variables in baking, Madame -- not only equipment, but climate -- altitude and humidity, for which the baker learns to compensate. So I will assume that this was not a factor here. Ask these people three questions.

1. Have their ovens been properly calibrated? Even a new oven can be off by several degrees. As Madame knows, I do most of my baking now in the convection oven, but I have baked this torte in conventional ovens with no problem.

2. If they were confident that their oven temps are fairly accurate, did they bake for the full 50 minutes before testing, or only 40? Since overbaking would make this cake dry and tough, the shorter baking time listed in a recipe is given for those whose ovens tend to run hotter than indicated. One generally knows if this is the case with their particular oven. (As Madame knows, despite repeated calibrations and adjustments, one of our ovens still bakes a bit fast and I do not use it for fine baking, if it can be avoided.)

3. Did the toothpick come out "almost clean"? If not, then I will state the obvious and say that _you must continue to bake_ (as clearly stated) *"until toothpick inserted near center comes out almost clean* and top is cracked and crusty". Do not raise the temperature, only increase the time, even if it takes longer than 50 minutes _"until toothpick inserted near center comes out almost clean"._

When this recipe states that "a small amount of chocolate on the toothpick means cake will be moist and fudgy", he means a _small_ amount -- nothing more! It is not acceptable for the cake tester to be coated in chocolate!

Is this so very complicated, Madame? It is a simple recipe. Do you dare to imply that I _misled_ your friends when I cautioned against overbaking? We are not instructing children, Madame!

Now if you will excuse me, Madame, I must return an urgent call from Valentino's majordomo."

As you see, dear Athenaeus, Abby risks losing Henri! Though, to be truthful, she does not believe that Henri would really leave her. He is a most devoted man.

Abby


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## athenaeus (Jul 24, 2001)

Dear Abby

Will you be under one more "mission impossible" for me?
Could you ask your precious Henry if the baking degrees were Farheneit or Celsius???

I took them for F and I converted them into C...

I tasted the cake and it's absolutely fab...

Too many holes from the tooth picks though...


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

I will confess. I did not bake the full 50 minutes. At 35 minutes the top was cracked and the toothpick came came out 80% clean. No need to get Hank's shorts in a knot. I'll just bake it a little longer next time


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## dear abby (Mar 7, 2002)

Ow!

Dearest Athenaeus,

Dear Abby now has a small bump on her head but she assures you that the oven temperature is indeed given in Fahrenheit.

350 F = 176.67 C.

350 C = 662 F

Abby


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## athenaeus (Jul 24, 2001)

Ok I baked it for 50 minutes in the correct temperature then.
The tooth pick came out with a lot of moisture

Obviously baking this torte for 50 min under 350F is not enough in MY oven

I put it back for another 10 min and it came out perfect...

Run to chef Henry before he ends up t o AA... and give him one of my proverbial mooches


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

Couple questions for Angry (if your there)....would you share what your doing to make matzoh brittle (is it like brittle or toffee?) and how do you present your sb chiffon cake (mini's? and what flavor chiffon?)? Thanks Dana.

Just curious, they sound really good...


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## angrychef (Jan 15, 2001)

Wendy, the matzoh brittle is nothing more than caramel coated/ drizzled matzah sheets with almonds. You can probably drizzle a toffee mixture. For the straw. chiffon cake, they're 9" or 10". Split into 3 layers and fill with sweetened whipped cream(or parve topping) and sliced strawberries. Fill the center hole with strawberries too. The chiffon cake is orange.


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks Dana. I never thought about using matzoh like that, it's really very cleaver!


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## dear abby (Mar 7, 2002)

My Dears! How delightful! Dear Abby has a surprise for you.

Despite Chef Henri's personal aversion to computers, he must have become curious enough to read this thread while Dear Abby was away from her desk. How else to explain the mysterious appearance of this recipe for *Passover Chocolate Matzo Brittle Crunch*?

This note was scrawled across the page: "Madame, there are similar recipes for this confection; however, I assure you that _this_ recipe came not from a goy, but from a true _Baleboosteh_! Madame, you are a meshugeneh to think that you might find this exact recipe on the Internet. Cyberspace! What kind of mishigas is that? This recipe is a real _mechaya_ -- feel free to share it with your friends, Madame. And as always, I, Henri, have tested this recipe personally and will guarantee the results."

*Chocolate Matzo Brittle Crunch* 
Plain Matzo
8 ounces unsalted Parve (Passover) margarine
3/4 teaspoon salt 
1 cup brown sugar
I cup chopped pecans or slivered almonds
10 ounces semisweet chocolate chips 
Cover a cookie sheet with foil. Line the cookie sheet evenly with matzos, breaking and adding pieces as necessary to fill pan.

Melt margarine with brown sugar and salt in saucepan, stirring constantly until it begins to boil. Cook and stir for about 3 minutes longer. Remove from heat. Pour this mixture over matzos and sprinkle with nuts. Bake at 375 degrees F for 8 minutes.

Remove pan from oven and sprinkle the chocolate chips evenly over the matzos. After they melt (in about 4 or 5 minutes), spread as evenly as possible over surface.

Chill in refrigerator for one hour. Break matzo into random sizes and shapes before serving. Nosh!

Dear Abby most sincerely hopes that you enjoy.

Shalom!

Abby

Edited at Chef Henri's request to correct minor error.

Zisn Pesach

Abby


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

Funny Henri uses that recipe, so do half the housewives in my area....but they use saltine crackers instead and then call it 'toffee'.


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## athenaeus (Jul 24, 2001)

If you consider that Americans, for years, have been learning on TV from Henri how to cook everything...

I wonder how much a chef of Henri's caliber costs to Dear Abby...


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## dear abby (Mar 7, 2002)

My dearest Athenaeus,

Dear Abby sees that you think you know who she really is. You spoke of her legendary parties in Miami, Aspen, Hollywood, and Tuscany almost as if you had been there yourself. She does not remember meeting a beautiful attorney from Greece! Mon amie, is it possible that you are married to an American?

My dear, Henri is certainly well known among some, but Dear Abby would not call him a celebrity, per se.

If you have to ask, you don't want to know.

Abby


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## breadster (Feb 23, 2001)

so kyle- what did you end up doing for the Passover seder - how did it turn out?etc etc etc


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Well, after all this great advice and counsel, I didn't make anything  Last Monday I was informed that I was the proud owner of a herniated disk in my lower back. I couldn't stand for more than 30 seconds. There was no way I could do all the baking I wanted to and I couldn't even go to the Seder. When I thought this would all be fine and dandy I did start the flourless mandelbrot. I learned of my plight after the fact so I did at least finish them. The were pretty tasty and provided comfort during the discomfort


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

I hope you're feeling better, Kyle. That sounds excruciating!


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

Oh Boy Kyle!!!

I,m so sorry to hear about your back, I hope you are feeling better soon and you better half gives you some well deserved back rubs!!


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## athenaeus (Jul 24, 2001)

Hey Kyle!

Who knows maybe you will get an invitation for a Greek Easter and only baked goodies are required to attend it


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

If my back ain't better by May 5th I may just have it removed


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## athenaeus (Jul 24, 2001)

Or we will just have to postpone Easter for this year!!! LOL


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## breadster (Feb 23, 2001)

at the risk of taking this thread in a really offbeat direction...

no. no Kyle dont do it! been there- find a "back" thread and i'll meet you there!


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Fully embracing thread drift, and risking Nicko's wrath  I meant having my entire back removed, not the disk. I did a weeks worth of cortisone and have started physical therapy. This afternoon, for the first time in 2 weeks, I fell like I might regain normal human movenment again


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Get yourself a heating pad Kyle, you'll need it!


Be careful of the cortisone, hope you didn't stop abruptly.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

If I could fit a microwave in the EasyBake Kitchen, I could have nice moist heat  The Cortisone was 6 days worth starting with 6 pills on day one and ending with one pill on day 6.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

You need a group hug, KyleW! Sorry you missed the Seder...


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Some heating pad are specially made to give you moist heat.


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