# Fried Chicken Woes



## jtktlw (May 10, 2009)

After seeing several chefs on the Foodtv network make fried chicken, and reading several recipes on the net regarding the same, I decided to tackle making it myself. I marinated the chicken in buttermilk with a bit of hot sauce overnight. I made a dredge of all purpose flour, garlic powder, onion powder, italian herb mix, salt, pepper, paprika, and cinnamon. I removed the chicken from the buttermilk, dredged it in the flour mixture, then put it back in the buttermilk and then finally dredged it again in the flour mixture. I brought vegetable oil in my deep fryer to 370 degrees and put the chicken in the hot oil. Now, most of the recipes I watched and read said to bring the oil to about 350-375 (which I did) and fry the chicken for anywhere from 15 to 20 minutes. After only about 10 minutes, the crust was very dark and very hard and the chicken was still raw in the center. I continued to fry the chicken for another 6 minutes until it was done which made the coating almost black and inedible and the chicken was terribly dry. Now, the only thing I can think of to make it better is to lower the temperature of the oil to about 300-325 and fry the chicken for a longer amount of time, but all the recipes I watched and read worked with oil at 370 and frying for 15-20 minutes. What have I done wrong? I don't think it's any of the herbs or spices I added to the flour mixture as everything I put in was stuff the other recipes included. Please help! I don't know what to do, and it is making me feel like a weak amateur! The part of the chicken I fried were skin on/bone on breasts by the way.


----------



## foleyisgood (Feb 28, 2008)

Do not bring the temp of the oil down, no matter what you do. 350-375 is the zone for frying and I would not deviate from it.

That being said, if your chicken is not done after it appears to be golden brown, remove it from the oil and place it in the oven to continue cooking. I would not continue to deep fry after that excellent golden color is achieved.

You may also want to try breadcrumbs instead of a second coating of flour. I also like a buttermilk marinade then a flour dredge, however after I opt for egg wash and some panko crumbs instead of more buttermilk and flour. I have found the crumbs stand up to heat better and you get less burning than with flour.


I'm no chef (not yet anyways) but I like to think I know a thing or two about fried chicken.

edit: what kind of oil did you use?


----------



## jtktlw (May 10, 2009)

Thanks for the tip on moving the chicken to the oven to continue cooking and for the breadcrumb tip as well. I'm just not happy with the fact that it seems to come out perfect in the fryer for the cooks on tv and not for me. Oh well. The oil I used is just plain vegetable oil. I'm' also thinking the problem was that the breasts were fairly larger than Im used to.


----------



## foleyisgood (Feb 28, 2008)

no problem!

I usually find myself either finishing things in the oven or holding them there anways. I always think, if the outside is done, its done frying. Temp it and finish in the oven or hold if its where it needs to be.


----------



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

How much chicken are you frying at a time in the basket? Also keep fat at 350-360 375 is a little to high. On TV the oil they are useing is not the same as salad oil that you use..Are you sure of oil temp? Try combining buttermilk, flour and spices make batter, dip chix in then fry.

Keep in mind most chicken that comes already made for restaurants is already blanched then breaded so it can never be raw in center(they usually steam first)


----------



## bubba (Dec 10, 2008)

I don't use a deep fryer, I use a big cast iron skillet and heat the oil to 300. I dredge in flour and spice mix, then dip in beaten egg, then dredge in panko. I then put in the hot oil for 12 to 15 minutes on a side depending on the size of the piece. It comes out crispy and nicely browned but not oily.


----------



## suzanne (May 26, 2001)

And the moral is: Never believe what you see on the TV cooking shows. Period. Nothing is done in real time (except maybe _Iron Chef_), and the mistakes and intermediate steps are never shown. There are people backstage doing many takes of the recipes in order to have the good ones to show. What you see is just the best ones, not reality.

As for recipes on the Internet: a lot are just copycat. I was once looking for something an author I was working on mentioned, and found dozens of recipes, _all identical_. People had just copied it over and over and put their names on it. Didn't seem to me that anyone had ever tested it. And I could tell from reading it that it would never work. A lot of people think there's nothing to writing a recipe -- but there is a great deal of work that goes into writing a _successful _recipe.

Okay, rant over. As to the fried chicken question: Maybe part of the problem, along with other things people have mentioned, was the double coating. The proteins and starches in the flour and milk cook much faster than the dense chicken muscle meat. So as you found out, the coating will burn before the inside is fully cooked.

My preference is to soak in water with salt, lemon juice, and hot sauce, and to coat with seasoned flour just once (but heavily), rather than armor-plate the pieces. And I finish in the oven. I get a nice crisp crust. I also keep the flour much simpler: just salt, lots of pepper, and (sometimes) cayenne. By adding paprika, you skew the result, since that will change the color of the crust faster so that it looks done before the chicken really is. And the other herbs and spices can and will burn.


----------



## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

You may also try letting the chicken rest for a brief period after breading so that it's not refrigerator cold.


----------



## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

What kind of flour was used: AP, pastry (low in protein but high in starch) or high protein flour (lowest in starch)? Without being an expert in fried chicken, I'd go with AP flour that is moderate in both starch and protein content. It's the starches that carmelize and darken over time and perhaps you used a flour that's relatively high in starch.

Ever notice how plain white bread toasts much faster than whole wheat? That quicker browning is due to the higher starch content of white flour as opposed to whole wheat flour.


----------



## benrias (May 2, 2003)

There was a previous discussion in the forums about this topic not too long ago. Here is the link

http://www.cheftalk.com/forums/food-...ight-here.html

There were plenty of hints and tips and tricks already written. Good luck! :smiles:


----------



## jtktlw (May 10, 2009)

I only cooked two breasts since there is only two of us.


----------



## jtktlw (May 10, 2009)

Thanks for the info on proteins and starches. Very interesting!


----------



## jtktlw (May 10, 2009)

I used AP flour


----------



## blueicus (Mar 16, 2005)

The main problem is that you're heating your oil too high, there's simply no way a large piece of chicken (such as a thigh, drumstick or breast piece) will cook on the inside before the exterior burns at that temperature. Also, the addition of spices like paprika on the outermost layer will help it darken/burn.


----------



## allie (Jul 21, 2006)

I agree with Blueicus. I fry chicken in a cast iron skillet. I don't brine, soak, or anything like that. Just rinse, pat dry, sprinkle with salt and pepper, roll or shake in either AP or SR flour (my mom and grandma always use SR but I don't always have it), then fry. My skillet will hold 2 legs, 2 thighs, and 2 wings at the time and I start with those. When I put the canola oil in the pan, I sprinkle a few drops of water in it, too. When the water stops "singing", I know the oil has come to temp and start to cook my chicken. I let it brown on one side, then flip. If the temp is too high, it browns too quickly so I may have to adjust my flame to compensate, too low and it doesn't bubble quickly, for lack of a better description, and the chicken will come out really greasy. I've learned that if I want to add spices, I need to season the chicken itself and not put it in the flour or I experience burning. After the dark meat is done and has been tested with the thermometer, I take it out and cook the breasts, livers, and gizzards, if they were included. The white meat cooks more quickly so that's why I wait until last. It's not crispy like say, KFC Extra Crispy but turns out a little more crispy than the original version. My family would rather have my chicken than anyone else's so I'm happy with how I cook it.


----------



## greyeaglem (Apr 17, 2006)

In the south they have special frying pans called chicken fryers. They are deeper than a normal frying pan with straight sides and a lid and should be able to hold an entire cut up chicken. They season their chicken, dredge it in flour and allow it to sit for a half hour or so. Then the oil is heated in the pan and the chicken added. Once the chicken has been browned on both sides, the pan is covered and the heat lowered to allow the chicken to cook through, about ten minutes. Then the cover is removed and the heat turned back up until the outside gets crisp again. Remove the chicken from the pan and pour off all but about 2 T. of oil. Stir 2 T. flour into the oil and cook about 3 min. Add 2 C. milk and any seasoning you like. Cook and stir until thickened. Result: southern fried chicken with white gravy.


----------



## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

One really big thing, already mentioned, is that you must let the chicken sit out to come near room temperature. Frying is very high heat at the surface, and it tends to seal juices wanting to escape. The result is that if the interior is cold, it can take a long time to cook through.

The other thing is, I have had this problem for some years, cooking by many methods. In my family we call this the "Lehrer Chicken Curse." The thing to watch out for is the difference between (a) pink and bloody, and (b) raw. Some supermarket chicken brands can, by certain methods, be cooked to 170F internal temperature and still run bloody juice. I have no idea why this is, but I have tested it many times with several different thermometers. My theory is that it has something to do with the various dyes, additives, and water pumped into the chickens, but I honestly don't know. You may want to try a different chicken brand and see if this makes any difference.

My current solution is simple enough: if I'm using cooking techniques akin to frying, I generally use medium-fancy chicken, separate every joint, and expect to do a post-frying bake. It shouldn't be necessary, but it is.

Just to check, though, for your temperatures, you might try an electric skillet. Provided you calibrate before putting in any chicken, it will do a wonderful job for classic pan-frying, and you don't have to mess around with thermometers.


----------



## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

Hmm sounds like maybe too much of an armour coating on the chook, and maybe not up to room temp. It was defrosted fully, also, if previously frozen?

With tandoori chicken its a similar pretreatment but minus the flour. I think (someone will correct me if I'm wrong) but most of the yoghurt spice marinade is rubbed off before being put in the very hot tandoor oven. It does get those lovely black crusty bits from the marinade that is left on there, but that's half the appeal  A pretty hot bbq gives a simlar result to a tandoor.

I like to poach the chook first and let it rest for a bit in the poaching liquid, drain, then pat dry, then marinade overnight. Long process, but it works for me. Rub off your marinade, dust in flour, deep fry. Doesn't get anywhere near crispy as the Colonel's, so, if that's what you're after, per others above. Panko crumbs give a good layer to stop the bird getting too greasy.


----------



## chalkdust (Feb 18, 2009)

i usually regulate everything as it cooks. it should be bubbling a good amount when the stuff goes in to fry.


but not a super hot insane bubble, a vigorous yet gentle bubble of oil

for deep frying the best teacher is experience

i think your breading and soaking methods sounds fine.

make sure it is room temp before frying!!!just keep on trying

i would use peanut or corn oil



a GREAT oil to use would be coconut oil, but this is expensive and hard to come by unless u make your own

im in the south and can vouch for what greyeaglem wrote


good way of doing it


----------



## chalkdust (Feb 18, 2009)

i dont think the coating is too thick



buttermilk to flour, buttermilk again and finally more flour

thats the same formula that chick fil a uses on their fried chicken sandwiches and nuggets

their coating has flour and msg and some other stuff in it


----------



## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

What you're trying to do is make a "double dipped" fried chicken in a deep fryer. Can you do it? Yes.

*Long story short*:

Your oil temperature was too high. Knock it down 30*F to 40*F, or so.

*A little nuance to the answer*:

The trick with fried chicken is getting the coating, the skin, and the meat to finish cooking at the same time. There are some variables which prevent giving the one right temperature for all purposes, the most important of which are the type of frying and the size of the pieces.

Pan frying works at a slightly higher temperature than a deep fryer, everything else being equal. In my experience 350F, a temperature often recommended for both pan and deep frying, is slightly too high for either, while 325F, a temperature you sometimes see suggested for deep frying chicken, is slightly too low.

When you tested your already too-dark chicken and found the meat underdone, you failed to account for the "carry over" cooking which comes with resting. You're going to have to learn to rest and allow for carry over. Chicken is best after a rather extensive rest. And, in the case of fried chicken, is better warm than "piping hot." That the flesh was almost done when you tested was demonstrated by the fact that it was so overcooked with a few minutes more cooking.

Some ingredients and spices, if used in the flour dredge, will result in a very dark coating. Cinnamon and paprika are among them. So are bread crumbs and dried, green herbs.

_*A few "FWIW" thoughts*_:

A "chicken fryer" is a very common pan in the north as well as the south. The gourmet name is "saute pan." They're identical. "Alla time same same," as a young lady once told me. They're especially useful 12" and up. A 14" pan is large enough to fry a whole chicken's worth or pieces at one time.

There are a lot of good suggestions on this thread for cooking fried chicken in some other way than the one you've chosen. I've tried dozens of great ways, including all of the ones on this thread. That doesn't mean your way isn't just as good. Also, recipes don't come with shackles. If you find one way you like, you're not restricted to it for the rest of your life. If you want to perfect this one, then try something else; or if you simply want to move on -- you have my blessing, that's for sure.

Brining is a way of getting the meat to hold extra moisture. It is especially useful when frying at lower temperatures in that it gives you some leeway in that it allows you to cook the flesh more well done without drying it too much. Even then, poultry breast is has a very narrow range of done/juicy. Understand that I'm not suggesting that the way to fix your problem is through brining, but it may be of interest to you since it's such a natural variation you can do by simply oversalting the first buttermilk marinade. Of course you'll have to control salt by making a few changes. ^ou can't use the brined buttermilk between dredges. You'll have to use fresh buttermilk (or some other liquid) without any salt; and you'll want to reduce the salt in every other part of the recipe as well.

If you want to brown the coating to the desired color quickly at a relatively high oil temperature, then finish the chicken gently in a moderate oven -- it's a reliable technique, especially useful in quantities that require cooking in batches. Your crust won't be quite as crisp though. It's how I learned to cook fried chicken from Ora, the lady who used to "do" for my family.

I like fried chicken best with greens, corn bread, melon and sweet potato pie. That particular combination might be a Jewish thing. Probably originally Latvian or something.

Chalk's description of what the oil should look like during the cook was especially helpful, I thought.

Happy chicken,
BDL


----------



## schuster (Apr 21, 2009)

You mentioned you heated your oil to 370. Are you keeping that temperature constant or is that just your initial temperature? In any home deep frying application, your oil temperature will drop a good bit when you first put the food in it. Starting at 370 is good because when you add your chicken, the oil will drop in temperature. Try starting at 370 and then maintain at 340 to 350 once you add the food. 370 the whole way through is just too hot, and that could be the cause of your problems.

Also, are you using enough oil? The less oil you use, the more the temperature drops. Work in batches if you have to, you can keep the first pieces warm in a slow oven without any problem while you're finishing the rest. I've never had a problem with fried chicken and I use the double dip that you are describing, so if it's not this, I'm not sure what it could be.

Lee


----------



## jtktlw (May 10, 2009)

Thanks for all of the great ideas and helpful hints everyone! I can't wait to try some different things. Some of you mentioned brining and that got the scienctific side of my brain going (ala alton brown, lol). I think that the chicken will actually cook a little quicker and more evenly when brined for the followwing reason. When you brined, water molecules are drawn into the chicken making the internal meat "wetter". What happens when you add heat to water? You get steam! So, I believe if you increase the amount of water in the meat, it will convert to steam when cooking and steaming of course is a faster more even way of cooking. Tell me what you guys think of this idea. Is it good or am I grasping at straws?


----------



## dillbert (Jul 2, 2008)

>> am I grasping at straws?

yup, but it's a small straw <g>

following your 'brine' logic - which methinks is spot on - you're faced with frying a

a "non-water logged" piece
a "water logged" piece

suppositioning that water-logged = faster cooking.

problem: water is a huge_HUGE_ heat sink. (ref: specific heat)
actually, pretty much all things devoid of water will heat up / come to a boil / fry / faster than things with a lot of moisture/water.

it's one of those neat, logical, but <sigh> wrong things....

now the good news is, brine away. 
the difference in cooking time will only affect mass manufacturing where the length of the deep fryer conveyor needs to be 44.2 feet vs 43.8 feet....


----------



## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Straws. Chicken is unpleasantly overcooked at temperatures well below the boiling point of water; i.e., when it becomes steam. In fact, brined chicken takes longer to cook because it's more massive. 

Dillbert is right that the time differential is not large, but he exaggerated its insignificance as a humorous, literary device. I laughed. I laughed out loud. :lol:

Properly done, brining will give you a juicier piece of chicken, a bit more tolerant to overcooking than an unbrined piece. However, you have to get your liquid, salt, acid and sugar ratios right or you run the risks of "watery," over-salted, and/or"mushy" (too much acid, white meat only) chicken. 

A basic, medium brine ("medium," according to the USDA) is 1/2 cup of (uniodized) table sat, and 1 cup of sugar completely dissolved in 1 gallon of water, plus 1 cup of vinegar. This brine should be just salty enough to float an egg. 

Basic is as basic does. You might want to start out by completely dissolving 1/4 cup (4 tbs) of uniodized table salt into 2 qts of commercially prepared limeade and/or lemonade to not only get a taste of what a slightly sweet "medium" brine is like but an excellent poultry brine as well. That is, the sweet/sour balance isn't unpalatable, but brines taste very salty. One of the most common problems among new briners is their desire to make the brine taste good on its own -- in the same way a marinade does. No. A brine for this purpose should taste unpleasantly salty. 

A chicken brine I use frequently is to simply add salt to buttermilk at the ratio of 2 tbs per quart. The buttermilk may be seasoned as you like. Mine includes paprika, chile de arbol, chopped onion, a squeeze or two of lime juice and a couple of tbs of sugar. If you do go with a buttermilk brine for double dipped chicken -- you can't use the brine for the dip. Use fresh, unsalted buttermilk seasoned in any other way like. 

If you do plan to investigate brining, make sure you buy untreated chicken to begin with. Much of the chicken you see in the super, especially from the southern mega-farms was "pumped" before packaging and will not absorb any more liquid. "Free range" (which isn't very free, and "organic" (usually not very organic) are better choices. Kosher chicken isn't pumped, but otherwise behaves as though it were brined. You may find it worthwhile to seek out freshly slaughtered local chickens. It makes as big a difference as seeking out fres fish.

Also, if you brine the chicken, drastically reduce or completely omit the salt in any successive steps.

Whether brined, marinated or au naturel: As always with deep frying battered or breaded foods, the trick is finding an oil temperature which will finish cooking the coating and the interior at the same time. In the case of the chicken which began this thread the oil was quite obviously too hot. I still recommend 325F for the particular purpose.

BDL


----------



## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

I yearn for the chickens raised 2 or 3 decades ago, the ones that yielded about a cup of grease when properly baked in the oven. Now THOSE were truly juicy chickens compared to the ***p that's brined nowadays.


----------



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Yours, mine and KFC fried chicken. The difference between theirs and ours is that theirs uses a pressure fryer> that is like cooking any food in pressure cooker it can cook at higher temp ansd chances of burning are slim. Their xtra crisp is simply chicken soaked in icewater thnm breaded in their secret manner. I agree with BDL fry at a lower temp and fry smaller amounts. All the herbs and spices everyone adds have other things in them to prevent caking, these burn and get darker, anything that has sugar will also brown quicker(Bread Crumbs and some Batters.) chick should also be at room temp, not ice cold or frozen(unless pre cooked).
Many years ago there was a machine called a broaster which was for frying chicken under pressure. I dont know if still in business.


----------



## cook1st (Jan 19, 2016)

jtktlw said:


> After seeing several chefs on the Foodtv network make fried chicken, and reading several recipes on the net regarding the same, I decided to tackle making it myself. I marinated the chicken in buttermilk with a bit of hot sauce overnight. I made a dredge of all purpose flour, garlic powder, onion powder, italian herb mix, salt, pepper, paprika, and cinnamon. I removed the chicken from the buttermilk, dredged it in the flour mixture, then put it back in the buttermilk and then finally dredged it again in the flour mixture. I brought vegetable oil in my deep fryer to 370 degrees and put the chicken in the hot oil. Now, most of the recipes I watched and read said to bring the oil to about 350-375 (which I did) and fry the chicken for anywhere from 15 to 20 minutes. After only about 10 minutes, the crust was very dark and very hard and the chicken was still raw in the center. I continued to fry the chicken for another 6 minutes until it was done which made the coating almost black and inedible and the chicken was terribly dry. Now, the only thing I can think of to make it better is to lower the temperature of the oil to about 300-325 and fry the chicken for a longer amount of time, but all the recipes I watched and read worked with oil at 370 and frying for 15-20 minutes. What have I done wrong? I don't think it's any of the herbs or spices I added to the flour mixture as everything I put in was stuff the other recipes included. Please help! I don't know what to do, and it is making me feel like a weak amateur! The part of the chicken I fried were skin on/bone on breasts by the way.


I did a similar thing when i was making family meal and decided to do fried chicken. Buttermilk brine, flour, buttermilk and then a different seasoned flour which i just threw a bunch of random spices. Cooked at 370 and it got dark at roughly 8-10 minutes, I really dont remember. Luckily, I only did one piece and thought about it...I figured I went really heavy with the spices and that was the reason my chicken was coming out dark. A few of the powders/spices i put in the seasoned flour burn quicker than others and honestly I couldnt tell you which one was the culprit. I used garli and onion powder, paprika, cayenne, and a few other things but I would say the spices made up at least in the 15% of seasoned flour. Now I just follow the Keller fried chicken recipe which I loveeeeee, but I am having trouble with the seasoning in the crust and the blood vein on dark pieces as well as par frying and then refrying for service. Anyone have any thoughts on this?


----------



## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

370 frying temp is on the high side. I suspect it will darken/burn the batter before your chicken is cooked. 370 starting only makes sense if you expect the temp to drop a lot; as happens with a small volume of oil or a weak burner. Restaurant fryers shouldn't drop temp so much as a pot of oil at home simply because of the mass of oil in there. I aim for korean fried chicken, which is a wet type of batter, but thin coat of it. It doesn't burn as fast as dredge, wash, dredge chicken pieces, which has dry flour on the outside touching the oil.

ex.

http://www.seriouseats.com/2012/10/the-food-lab-korean-fried-chicken.html

How big are your chickens? I try to get 3-3.5 lb chickens for frying because of surface area/volume ratios. Bigger chickens are really not good for frying.


----------



## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

I wet brine with salt and a few spices overnite (or until next service ) then use the three step breading process.

If I want a buttermilk crust I use it as step two instead of egg wash.

Not having to aggressively season the breading (only S&P) cuts out on the over browning IMO.

Talk to your purveyor about the quality of your fryers.

I have not seen a bloodline in a decade.

As for the par frying?

Someone will come along with a trick for it I suppose but I feel as strongly against this practice (doesn't matter where home or BOH) as I do about pre cooking and holding any sort of protein.

Bad juju.

mimi


----------



## virgil (Jan 21, 2016)

In terms of the coating, that's personal preference. I tend to favor "wet" batter over the dredging method.

However, no matter how spectacular the coating is, good fried chicken lives and breathes in the prep.

Here are some good tips to ensure good fried chicken every time.

1) Never use olive oil as the fat;

2) Never fry or batter chicken that is cold or straight from the fridge;

3) Brine the chicken first? Really? Why? Totally unnecessary for fried chicken. I have no idea why so many folks have glommed onto this myth for fried chicken. Roasting a chicken? Yes. Brine, brine, brine! Fried chicken? Nein! Nein! Nein!

4) Remove the skin. The skin can pull away during frying and take that delicious batter with it! Not to mention expose the meat directly to the hot oil and cook it unevenly. Also, the fat in the skin will be hotter than the chicken meat and could contribute to turning your batter dark while frying. Additionally, the skin will insulate the chicken meat from the cooking effects of the oil so you will likely end up with unevenly cooked meat, especially at the bone.

5) Make one or two very small incisions in the meat with a skewer or a small knife all the way to the bone. The incision will allow the meat to cook evenly and be the same on the outside as it as at the bone. NOTE: _ I was very skeptical about this at first because I thought it would dry out the chicken. Not so. It cuts the cooking time almost in half which means the chicken really doesn't have time to dry out. _

6) When making a batter, make sure the liquid (buttermilk, milk, beer etc) is room temperature. I like to warm the liquid slightly before adding it to my dry ingredients.

7) Depending on the size of the pan or fryer, fry only a few pieces at a time to avoid the batter sticking the chicken together.

8) If frying over a stove, never let the chicken rest on the bottom of the pot while frying. It will cook the chicken unevenly. Remember, the oil at the bottom of the pot is hotter than the oil at the top because its closer to the burner. If you are using an electric deep fryer, the same principle applies to the filament. So, make sure you occasionally move the chicken around while its cooking - gently and carefully! NOTE: _this does not apply to commercial deep fryers that use larger reservoirs of fat. _

-V


----------



## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

In response to aggravated customers who don't like the bloodline in the chicken thigh, I started popping the thigh bone out of the socket and then pushing it back in place.

This seemed to alleviate the issue, must have allowed the oil to infiltrate a bit.


----------



## mike9 (Jul 13, 2012)

I'm confused why anyone would fry a leg quarter in the first place.  A leg and thigh are two pieces of chicken, a leg quarter is one.  I usually see 10 pieces from a chicken.  Leg, thigh, wing and breast cut in two.


----------



## virgil (Jan 21, 2016)

Mike9 said:


> I'm confused why anyone would fry a leg quarter in the first place. A leg and thigh are two pieces of chicken, a leg quarter is one. I usually see 10 pieces from a chicken. Leg, thigh, wing and breast cut in two.


Fingers.....don't forget chicken fingers. lol


----------



## mike9 (Jul 13, 2012)

Virgil said:


> Fingers.....don't forget chicken fingers. lol


Yup - I forgot about those.


----------



## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

@Virgil

Sometimes "we" define ourselves by our style of cooking certain dishes.

One of those is certainly fried chicken...another is cornbread but let's not go there in this thread, K?

My recipes and techniques are passed down thru multiple generations and certain things are written in stone with no hope of deviation....ever.

How about I don't say anything about you committing sacrilege (pulling off skin and poking holes in the meat) and you take back your comment re overnite wet brining.

1 for 2 and we are even.

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

mimi


----------



## chefbuba (Feb 17, 2010)

Skin is the best part!


----------



## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

My most recent Fried Chicken woe : 

Bubble burst, landed a nice quarter sized blob of 350 degree oil right on my finger. 

I had crispy skin.


----------



## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Love a crispy bite through skin. Anyone tried a pickle juice brine?


----------



## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

flipflopgirl said:


> @Virgil
> 
> Sometimes "we" define ourselves by our style of cooking certain dishes.
> One of those is certainly fried chicken...another is cornbread but let's not go there in this thread, K?
> ...


If anyone dares to serve me a piece of fried chicken without he skin I would demand my money back and maybe even sue them. Hahaha!!


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

I wouldn't dare removing the skin from my chicken before prepping it for frying. It's... the best part!!!


----------



## chefbuba (Feb 17, 2010)

My local market has a hot deli and makes some of the best fried chicken. It's brined, and dredged in a highly seasoned flour then pressure fried in Wesson oil, resulting in moist, flavorful chicken with crispy skin/crust with just a bit of heat from cayenne. 
They do small batches so it's always hot and fresh.


----------



## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

Mike9 said:


> I'm confused why anyone would fry a leg quarter in the first place. A leg and thigh are two pieces of chicken, a leg quarter is one. I usually see 10 pieces from a chicken. Leg, thigh, wing and breast cut in two.


I reread the thread and missed the leg quarter post.

Did it get deleted?

Also, 2 legs, 2 thighs, two wings and a breast split in 2 is 8 pieces.

Were you counting the split back as 2 pieces to make 10?

Not causing a ruckus, just trying to clarify your post.


----------



## virgil (Jan 21, 2016)

flipflopgirl said:


> @Virgil
> 
> Sometimes "we" define ourselves by our style of cooking certain dishes.
> 
> ...


Should I give back my awards for my fried chicken? I think I can still find them......somewhere. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif


----------



## mike9 (Jul 13, 2012)

I had it confused with the thread by the person who resurrected this thread - http://www.cheftalk.com/t/88609/fried-chicken-par-frying-service-and-blood-vein-issues Then again yes I cut the breasts in two so by adding the tenders a chicken will yield 10 pieces of somewhat similar size.


----------



## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

Mike9 said:


> I had it confused with the thread by the person who resurrected this thread - http://www.cheftalk.com/t/88609/fried-chicken-par-frying-service-and-blood-vein-issues Then again yes I cut the breasts in two so by adding the tenders a chicken will yield 10 pieces of somewhat similar size.


ahh, I get it.

Thanks


----------



## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Virgil said:


> Should I give back my awards for my fried chicken? I think I can still find them......somewhere.


It would be the right thing to do. I doubt a skinless chicken would win an award unless the prize was specifically for skinless chicken.


----------



## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

> 4) Remove the skin. The skin can pull away during frying and take that delicious batter with it! Not to mention expose the meat directly to the hot oil and cook it unevenly. Also, the fat in the skin will be hotter than the chicken meat and could contribute to turning your batter dark while frying. Additionally, the skin will insulate the chicken meat from the cooking effects of the oil so you will likely end up with unevenly cooked meat, especially at the bone.


So if the skin pulls away from the meat it will cook unevenly, but if it stays attached the meat will cook unevenly.

mjb.


----------



## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Virgil said:


> flipflopgirl said:
> 
> 
> > @Virgil
> ...


I was just trying to maybe plant the seed that if you would just overnite brine your chicken pieces (however many you get from a whole fryer..be it 8 or 10 or a bucket full of strips) you would not need to mutilate her to win a prize.

Not trying to set up a throw down or nuthin'.

mimi


----------



## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

flipflopgirl said:


> Not trying to set up a throw down or nuthin'.
> 
> mimi


/img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif


----------



## virgil (Jan 21, 2016)

@ flipflopgirl and koukouvagia:

We all have different approaches to many of the same things, I suppose. Unless I misunderstood ChefTalk's mission statement, this is the place to come to share ideas, experiences and perhaps, discover a new thing or two.

That being said, one of the things that I learned in over 3 decades of working with food is never criticize another cook's methods unless and until you try it yourself. And then, don't criticize another cook's methods, unless, if course, that cook works for you. Once I learned this painfully simply rule, my experience in the kitchen became much more pleasant and more importantly, more productive. That is when I really started to learn something about food.

To that end, I will explain the method to my madness for fried chicken that seems to be the subject of so much controversy.

-Yes, the skin provides a slight insulating factor in terms of heat transferal from the oil to the meat near the bone. More importantly, however, since when does a breast, thigh or leg have skin that completely covers 100% the meat? Correct answer? NEVER. Result: uneven cook and coating that has pulled away from the meat and floats around in the oil making tasty little bites. Has either of you ever bit into a piece of fried chicken and burnt your mouth on that pocket of hot oil or juice that is hiding between the meat and skin? Unless you serve your fried chicken cold or have never eaten fried chicken before, the answer is YES.

-Making a small incision or poking small holes with skewers makes possible a uniform cook to the bone and throughout even the thickest chicken parts. Also, the likelihood of burnt coating and less than cooked meat is practically nil. No one wants to bite into a thigh or leg and see that disgusting burgundy color near the bone with bluish purple veins. Period. While we in the food world understand and accept that as a natural part of fried chicken, paying customers typically do not share that advanced understanding. A small incision no bigger than the end of a small, sharp pairing knife or well placed punctures made by a kabob skewer are virtually unnoticeable and allow the hot oil to cook the meat near the bone at the same pace it cooks the meat on the outside. Result? No burgundy colored bones or bluish purple veins and a cook time that is dramatically reduced - rather important, especially if friend chicken is run as your special and you want to turn over tables faster.

-Brining the chicken before hand? I've done it. I agree with its benefits when roasting a chicken. But, I fail to see its advantages in fried chicken. Biology 101: water in solution (like salt water) tends to flow from areas of higher saturation to areas of less saturation across semipermeable membranes. When chicken parts are brined, the natural moisture within the chicken will pass from the chicken to the brine and be replaced by salt water in an attempt to reach equilibrium. So, brining actually replaces natural juices with salt and water. Isn't salt already an ingredient in the batter? Most recipes that I have seen for fried chicken batter call for generous amounts of salt. If so, why add more? Salt in the meat masks the flavors of the herbs and seasoning in the batter. Salt is intended to enhance flavor, not *be *the flavor. What's the point of adding flavorful seasoning like smoked paprika etc if it is diminished by a disproportionate level of salt?? I don't want the natural moisture in my chicken to be replaced by salt water and then, have the meat be reconstituted by hot oil. If I thought that was a stunning idea, I would forget fried chicken altogether and indulge in a bucket of the Colonel's finest.

You see, its not the likelihood of whether or not either or you have some information or knowledge that I don't already know that's important. What is important is the respect of giving you both the benefit of the doubt that you may know something I don't and be afforded the opportunity to express yourselves in that regard. To put it in flipflopgirl's eloquent vernacular, "Im not trying to start a throw down or nuthin" either. But, then again, it was not me who crossed the Rubicon here.

I would, however, like to understand both of your reasoning, which you both have yet to explain despite each of your unsolicited and prickly criticisms. Again, I freely admit the possibility you may provide some insight that I am not yet aware of.

So, I am very curious to hear both of your reasonings why you believe your methods, which neither of you have actually mentioned anywhere in this thread, are so worthy and mine are not. I trust you both will be just as quick and eager to qualify your respective positions as you were to criticize mine, right?

The floor is all yours.


----------



## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Virgil said:


> @ flipflopgirl and koukouvagia:
> 
> We all have different approaches to many of the same things, I suppose. Unless I misunderstood ChefTalk's mission statement, this is the place to come to share ideas, experiences and perhaps, discover a new thing or two.
> 
> ...


Hi Virgil welcome to the forum and thanks for explaining your reasoning ! The banter is friendly I assure you. I read your post carefully and I still dislike fried chicken without its skin. Why? Cause it's the best part in my opinion. And yes I have bitten into that hot hot juice between the skin and meat and honest to goodness that's my favorite part! The heart wants what it wants.

There are little parts of the chicken that are not covered by skin and those parts dry out a little but I sacrifice those bits wholeheartedly to preserve the succulent skin.

If you've been in the biz for so long I'd be shocked if I was the first and only person you came across who love chicken skin more than they love chicken meat.


----------



## hgilson (Jan 26, 2016)

@ Virgil.

Interesting on the salt water replacing the natural juices. I've read in a number of places that the osmosis theory isn't what is really happening. According to this theory, brining actually denatures (I might be using denature incorrectly here) the proteins which helps reduce the amount of contraction in the heated muscle. Since the muscle contracts less, it expels less water from the chicken.

This might be what you meant and I may have interpreted it wrong.


> To understand what's _really_ happening, you have to look at the structure of turkey muscles. Muscles are made up of long, bundled fibers, each one housed in a tough protein sheath. As the turkey heats, the proteins that make up this sheath will contract. Just like a squeezing a tube of toothpaste, this causes juices to be forced out of the bird. Heat them to much above 150°F or so, and *you end up with dry, stringy meat. *
> 
> Salt helps mitigate this shrinkage by dissolving some of the muscle proteins (mainly _myosin_). The muscle fibers loosen up, allowing them to absorb more moisture, and more importantly, they don't contract as much when they cook, making sure that more of that moisture stays in-place as the turkey cooks.


With that said, it seems reasonable to not brine; particularly if you are a pro and you cook a lot of fried chicken. While your chicken might be less moist than it could be, it could taste more like chicken than if it was brined. I tend to brine when frying because as an amateur, it provides me a safety margin against overcooking. Typically, I use a well seasoned (salted) buttermilk brine and finish it in a moderate oven. For me, this technique provides good repeatable results even when I can't find an appropriately sized (smallish) chicken at the market.

For me, this is a very interesting thread. Since cooking for me is a hobby and I've got a lot to learn, I find it fascinating to see how many ways there are to skin (or not skin) a fried chicken.

H.


----------



## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

X 2 koukou's post.

No one is doubting your blue ribbon recipe.

YOU are the one who poked the bear by ranting re NEVER EVER brine.

Just wanted you to know there are other techniques out there and not just yours.

I prefer to have savory meat over super seasoned crust.

This is solved by brining.

IMO of course.

mimi


----------



## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

boar_d_laze said:


> There are a lot of good suggestions on this thread for cooking fried chicken in some other way than the one you've chosen. I've tried dozens of great ways, including all of the ones on this thread. That doesn't mean your way isn't just as good. Also, recipes don't come with shackles. If you find one way you like, you're not restricted to it for the rest of your life. If you want to perfect this one, then try something else; or if you simply want to move on -- you have my blessing, that's for sure.
> 
> Brining is a way of getting the meat to hold extra moisture. It is especially useful when frying at lower temperatures in that it gives you some leeway in that it allows you to cook the flesh more well done without drying it too much. Even then, poultry breast is has a very narrow range of done/juicy. Understand that I'm not suggesting that the way to fix your problem is through brining, but it may be of interest to you since it's such a natural variation you can do by simply oversalting the first buttermilk marinade. Of course you'll have to control salt by making a few changes. ^ou can't use the brined buttermilk between dredges. You'll have to use fresh buttermilk (or some other liquid) without any salt; and you'll want to reduce the salt in every other part of the recipe as well.


Finally took time to read thru this 7 year old thread and came across this post.

It says everything I was trying to get across.

Sort of a never say never sort of comment.

mimi


----------



## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

There are reasons to brine and not

Pros - bigger temperature window for juicy meat

Cons - 1) Flavor: Some like it some don't. It can taste like a brined bird. This is totally subjective. I see the argument come up every thanksgiving turkey thread 2) Extra moisture content under your batter

You can make adjustments to account for all of the above. Brining is just one more tool to use or not use at the cooks discretion. Maybe it is a philosophical difference here, but I see a recipe as a teaching tool, not doctrine.

_"I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only make them think." -Socrates_


----------



## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

MillionsKnives said:


> _"I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only make them think." -Socrates_


Socrates was a smart guy, but sometimes you can't make them think, either.


----------

