# Failing Practical exam for CC twice



## savoreachflavor (May 27, 2013)

Need some guidance!!! I practiced at least ten times, gone over everything that I needed to do till my eyes and head started hurting. My mentor has no time or either forgot.Been on google,you tube, been on facebook!! I need an idea of a check list in detailed and direction to saute an airline chicken breast. Someone please help!!!


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

What is CC?


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## charlesschulman (Oct 18, 2016)

certified culinarian


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2016)

unless its a rather small portion size i cant really see how you can sautee an airline breast without finishing it in the oven, the wing joint will always be under cooked unless you sous vide it first


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## savoreachflavor (May 27, 2013)

​That's what tripped me up! The first three chefs said i needed to saute the chicken,the last three chef's said to finish it in the oven. Portion size came from 3.5 pound chicken. when sliced into it was raw so I put it on small sheet pan to finish cooking when I glanced over to the judges the chicken was not raw.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Saute and finish it in the oven.  This is pretty standard.


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## parallax (Nov 6, 2015)

That's the trick, right? Saute or pop into the oven. Both may be right, depending?

What's portion size? What breed? What else are you working on the line? Is it a Tyson Farms chicken on steroids, or natural free range?

There's no standard other than the standard of the chef you're working under and what they procure.

For a large airline cut from a big steroid bird, sear, flip and pop into the oven. For a smaller, leaner, free range sicillian buttercup just saute the petite bird and serve.

I'm no collegiate culinarian and may just be talking out of ass.


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## charlesschulman (Oct 18, 2016)

​The Practical exam is breaking down a 3.5 pound chicken,my mentor showed me to cook the French breast. first exam I did in august I seared it both sides then placed in oven the judges told me I didn't saute so this last one I did sautéed then put a lid to finish cooking should not have put a lid on it but I seared on both side a nd reduced the heat the internal temp was 183 after the rest period I sliced it,it was raw then placed then back the oven to finish. then on top that I finished 1 hour early of 2.5 hours. the last time I finished 1.5 earlier. So something is missing my mentor wasn't always around when I practiced so I have two mentor this time around.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Parallax said:


> That's the trick, right? Saute or pop into the oven. Both may be right, depending?
> 
> What's portion size? What breed? What else are you working on the line? Is it a Tyson Farms chicken on steroids, or natural free range?
> 
> ...


Why do you saute?

To give the surface good caramelization and to develop flavour, also so you can deglaze the pan after the brst is finished.

If you think you are talking out of your azz, then don't offer advice. Lots talk out of their ass and don't know it, so you are waaay ahead of them.....


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## charlesschulman (Oct 18, 2016)

​ACF wants one french breast or a breast sauteed ,so i'm not talking out my ass! My mentor is the one who showed me the method. The sauce is a pan sauce reduced with stock and I whisk in cubes of butter coated with flour


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

No, no, no.

Of course you aren't talking out of your hiney, and that's why I didn't copy and paste your post. 

The "other guy" did, and that's why I'm quoting him and addressing that as soon as I see it.

Yours is a legitimate, practical question and it deserves a legitimate, practical, answer, I hope you found my explanation clear.


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## jay lancaster (Aug 26, 2016)

Parallax said:


> Is it a Tyson Farms chicken on steroids, or natural free range?


Here is the only thing I will offer to this thread...the use of growth hormones is illegal in the poultry (and pork) industry. Please don't mislead the public, or other professionals, into thinking these drugs are rampant...when in reality they aren't being used at all.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

It seems Parallax hasn't posted anywhere on this site for a while. Odd, because at first it seemed like he had an opinion on just about everything, and now...nothing.


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## tbos42 (Jun 17, 2014)

Hello,

I hold practical training classes for up to 20 ppl a year for my company for the CC practical.

To begin a good idea is not to use a chicken larger than 3lbs. The requirements are 2.5-3.5lbs. This gives you a decent edge on the cooking process.

Be sure to practice with the same pan (all metal able to be placed in the oven), knife, and size chicken for familiarity success. I always suggest using the airline vs the supreme breast for presentation and texture. It is best to use clarified butter or a vegetable/canola oil if clarified butter is not available.

During the butchering process, make sure to first pull the skin towards the leg quarter to ensure you will have good coverage on the breast portion. Full skin coverage of the airline will make for a great looking result. Heat the sauté pan, add the fat (c.butter or oil), evenly season both sides of the chicken breast, heat the fat and make sure the skin is evenly covering the breast by lightly pulling each side when placing into pan(skin side down). Sear for 3-4 minutes until golden brown and place entire pan into a 350-375 degree oven (do not turn the chicken) for approximately 12-15 additional minutes OR until the thickest (near the wing bone) part of the chicken reads 158-160 degrees. Rest the chicken in a warm area for approximately 5 minutes and the 165 degrees will be reached. I choose not to turn the chicken skin side up before entering the oven because in my experience the chicken is a mush more moist and the skin retains its full coverage without shrinking. Resting will prevent the juice running all over the plate when and if ( you should definitely slice it.)you choose to slice it.

Here is a great link to a butchering video that I use.






I only advise through my experience, you should make sure to find the best process through practicing that suits you.

Good luck!


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## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

So your a private chef??  Why in the world do you need a fake ass piece of paper saying you are a certified culinarian what ever the hell that means???   You either have a culinary degree or you don't.  Some of the best Chefs I have worked for are self taught.  Work ethic, showing up on time, caring about what you do and not complaining will take you farther than any bullshit piece of paper will.  This is the one of the last common sense businesses in the world.


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## tbos42 (Jun 17, 2014)

hookedcook said:


> So your a private chef?? Why in the world do you need a fake ass piece of paper saying you are a certified culinarian what ever the hell that means??? You either have a culinary degree or you don't. Some of the best Chefs I have worked for are self taught. Work ethic, showing up on time, caring about what you do and not complaining will take you farther than any bullshit piece of paper will. This is the one of the last common sense businesses in the world.


Your opinion on secondary education is your own.... Here is mine. If this person wants to further themselves with an ACF certification, don't belittle it. I never gravitated towards the ACF either, it was simply offered to me for free, so I took it. My favorite experience has been working with Chef Owners that do it right, practice solid sustainability purchasing, and never give in to the corporate mentality of dime over quality. That being said it is inappropriate to talk down about a goal that someone is striving for because you either dont believe in it, whether you are uneducated to the process or just don't have the ability to attain it yourself. This person asked for guidance and help, your response shows lack of leadership skills and compassion. You obviously are not a mentor type. My two cents.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

hookedcook said:


> So your a private chef?? Why in the world do you need a fake ass piece of paper saying you are a certified culinarian what ever the hell that means??? You either have a culinary degree or you don't. Some of the best Chefs I have worked for are self taught. Work ethic, showing up on time, caring about what you do and not complaining will take you farther than any bullshit piece of paper will. This is the one of the last common sense businesses in the world.


Why do you need a fake-ass drivers license in order to drive a car? Why do doctors need a fake ass credential to treat patients?

Look the worst excuse in the world is "I don`t know". Any kind of certification-from drivers licenses to culinary qualifications- prevents people from using this pathetic excuse.

Or would you rather be a taxi driver in "another country" where drivers licenses dont exist, or are a joke, and people use their horns instead of brake pedals?

Smarten up!


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## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

O.K., I get your point.  A sixteen year old girl can pass a driving test while texting at the same time.  Doesn't mean she knows how to drive.  One of the worst chefs I have ever worked with in the first 2 minutes of meeting him made a point of being a CEC and passed a test. He was sloppy and had no clue what he was doing. I have a 100 ton captains license that was paid by an owner of the boat I was working on.  I would not trust me driving a yacht.  I would probably destroy the boat and dock, like nobody's business but I have a license!   It's important to have a culinary degree now to move yourself forward in the eyes of an employer.  As for real world knowledge and caring about what you are doing,  school doesn't teach that.  Cheers


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Yeah, but look at it from another point of view:

A restaurant's primary goal is to make money. If the kitchen doesn't have a broiler, you grill a steak on the flat top, if its cheaper to buy in fully portioned meats, then you do that. What I'm saying here is that the restaurant has no obligation to teach anything but the bare minimim, and many times the logic and theory is waaaay off(sear meats to lock in flavour, put hot liquids in the walk in to cool down, and other b.s.). There is no guarantee that what you learn on the job is right.

A qualification has to back itself up with test. Before testing, the correct technique and theories have to be taught and mastered.

Now, go back to the orginal post and read about the guy who can't saute a chicken breast, read about people's theories that sauting can take place with a lid on the pan, or that you can saute a whole chix brst on high heat in the pan with excellent results.

Does some sort of a culinary qualification make sense now?


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## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

Alright foodpump, you make a valid point.  Not here to discourage new chefs but cooking is an art and there is no right or wrong as long as it tastes good.  I have a culinary degree which not one employer has asked to ever be seen for the last 18 years.  Good restaurants test cooks when they come in by cooking a dish and a basic Culinary test.  It does weed out people.  But on the flip side had a young cocky kid years ago fail a test miserably in the Virgin Islands where I was working and now runs multiple restaurants in NYC and made a name for himself.  Cooking is a selfless profession that we get joy from making other people happy.  I love what I do,  just not down with bullshit certifications that only benefit the company giving it,  not the Chef


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

As a Chef and a cook, I can understand just where hookedcook is coming from.

The ACF certification process is for bettering one's self. You don't compete against others. You compete against yourself.

What this does in the long run is develops your attitude and disposition about what you do.

The ACF is not just for learning about food. You learn how to communicate with others, how to plan, direct, organize, market, yourself.

That being said, in my career, I too have worked along side, with,and for ACF accredited individuals, who did not acquire the attributes I described above.

The only reason they have that piece of paper was to get a better job or for more money.

On a daily basis, these people showed lack of any kind of responsibility. Many of my ACF Chefs were only paper pushers, and meetings.

I even had a Chef tell me once that he could not do what I did for him on a daily basis...( Sous Chef for college foodservice for 3,000 kids).

And, of course on the other hand, it has been my honor to know and call as peers some ACF CEC's that I would follow to the ends of the earth.

I will not judge anyone who desires to better themselves.

Culinary schools and being self taught are all good but, can anyone honestly say that there exists an entity better capable of teaching culinary skills and Chef attributes then the ACF????


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

Back to cooking a chicken breast.  Is the object of this exercise to saute the chicken or to sear it and finish in the oven?


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## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

Jimyra said:


> Back to cooking a chicken breast. Is the object of this exercise to saute the chicken or to sear it and finish in the oven?


AAAAHHHHHH, this thread is killing me!!!! Sear the breast off, get the skin crispy and brown, finish in the oven till cooked. Done!!! We are not landing on the moon here!

Tomorrow's lesson breathing: You suck air in and blow air out.

Day 2's advanced lesson: walking. You put one foot in front of the other and repeat the process .

Kind of joking but the op needs self confidence, its a fu#king chicken breast, cook it and call it a day. Believe me you will get pretty good at it after you cook 500 thousand or so which will happen


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

CharlesSchulman said:


> ACF wants one french breast or a breast sauteed ,so i'm not talking out my ass! My mentor is the one who showed me the method. The sauce is a pan sauce reduced with stock and I whisk in cubes of butter coated with flour


Hookedcook, If you would quit your whining and pay attention to the OP you might learn something. The exercise was to saute the chicken breast not sear and finish in the oven. I agree that the sear and finish is a better method. When trying to get a certificate instructions must be followed. In school I saw many young students fail because they thought they were smarter than the instructors and did not follow instructions. Academics are a monkey see monkey do.


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## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

Jimyra said:


> Hookedcook, If you would quit your whining and pay attention to the OP you might learn something. The exercise was to saute the chicken breast not sear and finish in the oven. I agree that the sear and finish is a better method. When trying to get a certificate instructions must be followed. In school I saw many young students fail because they thought they were smarter than the instructors and did not follow instructions. Academics are a monkey see monkey do.


So you are saying?? Cook a chicken breast in a more difficult and less efficient way to obtain a certificate? That makes perfect sense. Work smarter not harder.


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

"So you are saying??  Cook a chicken breast in a more difficult and less efficient  way to obtain a certificate?  That makes perfect sense.  Work smarter not harder."

Yes, this is not to show you can cook chicken more efficiently than the examiners method but that you can cook a breast according to instructions.  I might also add that in the obfuscated rules in academia that using the terms airline breast and french breast  interchangeably is not permitted.

What I am saying is the purpose of this is to get a certificate.  And yes this certificate can open doors.


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## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

Jimyra said:


> "So you are saying?? Cook a chicken breast in a more difficult and less efficient way to obtain a certificate? That makes perfect sense. Work smarter not harder."
> 
> Yes, this is not to show you can cook chicken more efficiently than the examiners method but that you can cook a breast according to instructions. I might also add that in the obfuscated rules in academia that using the terms airline breast and french breast interchangeably is not permitted.
> 
> What I am saying is the purpose of this is to get a certificate. And yes this certificate can open doors


And this is the reason I left the United States. It doesn't make sense but you get a certificate! Cheers


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

The vast majority of the world seems to operate on the principal that in order to keep a job it is usually imperative to be able to follow directions. This even holds true for the so called self employeed, because just like the so called self taught, neither one truly exists.

Quote: Carl Sagan


> If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.


I owned my own successful and profitable restaurant for years and even though I was at the supposed top of the food chain for my business, I still needed to be able to follow directions in order to continue. e.g. guests, IRS, EDD, accounts payable, Environmental Health, etc. etc. etc... the list goes on and on and on...


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## chefdwilliams (Jan 15, 2017)

First, in all my years as pro chef (almost 30 owned 3 restaurants, now private chef to pro athlete) these types of paper title are meaningless UNLESS you are working hotels. Paper titles are like gold in hotels. As far as restaurants or private homes etc, its what people call you NOT what a piece of paper says.... I have seen guys with certificates and paper titles that can't even make a good stock or have no clue when I say "Make your mise en place" while other guys who have just watched and learned from other chefs with NO paper titles can cook with the best of them.

Just my opinion.

If you feel you need it... most times I cook a chicken breast I sear onto and place in oven to finish... sometimes add a touch of chicken stock to the pan.... depends on size of breast.

Good Luck!


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## chefdwilliams (Jan 15, 2017)

EXACTLY. Its not rock science and I totally agree. Do it 500 times and he will do it with his eyes closed/img/vbsmilies/smilies/thumb.gif


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Chefdwilliams said:


> First, in all my years as pro chef (almost 30 owned 3 restaurants, now private chef to pro athlete) these types of paper title are meaningless UNLESS you are working hotels. Paper titles are like gold in hotels. As far as restaurants or private homes etc, its what people call you NOT what a piece of paper says.... I have seen guys with certificates and paper titles that can't even make a good stock or have no clue when I say "Make your mise en place" while other guys who have just watched and learned from other chefs with NO paper titles can cook with the best of them.
> Just my opinion.
> If you feel you need it... most times I cook a chicken breast I sear onto and place in oven to finish... sometimes add a touch of chicken stock to the pan.... depends on size of breast.
> 
> Good Luck!


O.k., why only hotels? You say you have owned 3 restaurants. Where did your financial backing come from? With me and my businesses, the banks wanted to see some kind of credentials before lending me money.

Look, we're not taking about titles here. We are talking about credentials. If the credentials state that the guy knows what mise en placevis, and he doesn't, you either lodge a complaint with whonis issueing the credential, or you ask the guy if he lost his memory--he should know better, so why doesn't he?


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## tbos42 (Jun 17, 2014)

Everyone seems to be using this thread to flaunt their own "colors". Jesus guys, the kid is just asking for help while trying to better himself. If you aren't contributing to that, make your own" look at me I'm a chef!" Thread. Just saying.


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## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

cheflayne said:


> The vast majority of the world seems to operate on the principal that in order to keep a job it is usually imperative to be able to follow directions. This even holds true for the so called self employeed, because just like the so called self taught, neither one truly exists.
> 
> Quote: Carl Sagan
> 
> I owned my own successful and profitable restaurant for years and even though I was at the supposed top of the food chain for my business, I still needed to be able to follow directions in order to continue. e.g. guests, IRS, EDD, accounts payable, Environmental Health, etc. etc. etc... the list goes on and on and on





tbos42 said:


> Everyone seems to be using this thread to flaunt their own "colors". Jesus guys, the kid is just asking for help while





tbos42 said:


> Everyone seems to be using this thread to flaunt their own "colors". Jesus guys, the kid is just asking for help while trying to better himself. If you aren't contributing to that, make your own" look at me I'm a chef!" Thread. Just saying.


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