# Need an all purpose knife



## beardedcrow (Oct 1, 2012)

Hello everyone,

I am a sushi chef, and have a Shun yanagi 270mm vg007?

Anyways my knife is decent at cutting fish, but not for maki or other foods as it's too sharp and chips

I was looking at kiritsuke but not sure this is for me.

Can anyone help me out?

Budget is roughly $300


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## beardedcrow (Oct 1, 2012)

BTW I'm used to single bevel knives.

I've been using water stones for a few years, but no expert.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

When you say single bevel, is that chisel point or vee point?


BeardedCrow said:


> BTW I'm used to single bevel knives.
> I've been using water stones for a few years, but no expert.


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## beardedcrow (Oct 1, 2012)

Chisel or wedge.

Basically sushi knives.

BTW, Shun sells these knives with 3 bevels, why I'm not sure, took months to fix.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Your Shun is VG-10, VG-10 is somewhat more chip prone than other alloys, and Shun isn't the least chippy of san-mai VG-10s, cutting maki and temaki is fairly light duty and _shouldn't_ result in chipping. Shouldn't shmouldn't. It does, and here we are.

The good news is that it's not hard to move to something better than Shun. LOTS of better knives than Shun. LOTS. "LOTS" as in any good knife.

There's no theoretical reason a kiritsuke -- which combines some of the advantages of usuba, yanagi, and gyuto -- won't work for you. But that doesn't mean it will. You might be better off with a more extensive kit. Most of the sushi men I know use the three knife combo of yanagiba, deba and usuba -- each as appropriate; some use a suji for slicing during the day and reserve their yanagibas for the high-rolling dinner crowd.

Unfortunately I don't have enough experience with traditional Japanese edges to give you much guidance. Get in touch with Jon Broida (who owns Japanese Knife Imports) either by PM or phone. He can help you, no doubt.

Now that you know how little I know, take it FWIW that I'd probably go carbon over stainless for your purposes anyway. But talk to Jon.

BDL


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## beardedcrow (Oct 1, 2012)

Thanks for the informative reply!

I will research gyotos when I can.

Yes my shun was a gift and I personally wouldn't spend this much on a shun.


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## jbroida (Nov 13, 2011)

boar_d_laze said:


> Your Shun is VG-10, VG-10 is somewhat more chip prone than other alloys, and Shun isn't the least chippy of san-mai VG-10s, cutting maki and temaki is fairly light duty and _shouldn't_ result in chipping. Shouldn't shmouldn't. It does, and here we are.
> 
> The good news is that it's not hard to move to something better than Shun. LOTS of better knives than Shun. LOTS. "LOTS" as in any good knife.
> 
> ...


just fyi, i'm in japan until october 20th, so while i am responding as best i can, there can sometimes be delays.


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## beardedcrow (Oct 1, 2012)

So at work my headchef brought a slicer to show me, I must say I think this isthe knife suited for me.

Will be reading on slicers for now. His was 270mm


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## 808jono202 (Sep 3, 2012)

I was going to say for a true all purpose, I LOVE a cleaver, or Japanese vegetable knife(Nakiri). Great for almost everything i can think of, with the exception of hacking at heavy bones. . . but I don't think that is something you would have to deal with regularly.

Single edged blade(iirc), great for using the tip for fine work, middle for typical work/prep, the length is great for slicing, and being wide and flat, is great to use as a spatula to help cary things to the bowl/wok/where ever. . .





  








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808jono202


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Oct 7, 2012


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## beardedcrow (Oct 1, 2012)

Beautiful cleaver though!

Ordered a 270mm slicer.


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## rdm magic (Apr 16, 2012)

Which slicer?


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Good luck with your new _suji_. I hope it not only does what you want, but does all those things beautifully.

Paranthetically, I must say that a _nakiri_ is one of the worst choices for an all-rounder in a sushi-ya which I could imagine. But those are my imaginings. What's your reasoning Jon? Do you use anything as short as a _nakiri_ for a lot of slicing and other fish prep?

FWIW and without getting into ambiguous single and double bevel/edge terminology: MOST nakiri are sharpened on both sides in the typical "V" and not sharpened almost entirely on one side in Japanese, "chisel" or "hamaguri" fashion.

BDL


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## beardedcrow (Oct 1, 2012)

Misono Swedish slicer 270mm.

I know it'll be double bevel, but I will grind other side to make it single bevel.


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## rdm magic (Apr 16, 2012)

I may be wrong, but isn't there more to a single bevel than just grinding away the other side? Something about it being more like \( than \| I believe


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## scubadoo97 (Nov 7, 2011)

Yes in traditional Japanese single beveled like a yanagiba it has a concave back


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## beardedcrow (Oct 1, 2012)

Honestly I have no issues with my food sticking to the backside of my gyuto eith one bevel flattened.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

So, if one _flattens_ a V, does that mean you grind half of the knife away to create the chisel edge \|/ ?


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## beardedcrow (Oct 1, 2012)

Probably a MM. It will take months but I've done a few that way.

I was taught by some old Japanese guys long ago.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

The easiest way to turn a "V" edge into a chisel is to sharpen primarily on one side, doing just enough work on the other side to chase the burr.  It's a fairly gradual process and you don't waste a lot of metal that way. 

In my opinion you don't get enough benefit in terms of absolute sharpness and lose too much durability when you sharpen a relatively thin knife -- like most sujis, and Masamoto Sweden in particular -- with too much asymmetry.  But to each his own. 

BDL


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## beardedcrow (Oct 1, 2012)

I'm not sure if it's just me, I prefer single bevels as I used a yanagi for 6-7 years.

I usually use a 10,000 grit stone to remove other bevel which takes a very long time but it was how I was taught.
I might be doing the wrong thing to these knives but they certainly work for me.

I have a gyuto for when I need it, I just need a knife similar to a thin yanagi but a little more durable.
My headchef has the misono Swedish slicer with the other bevel removed and it's a wonderful knife!

Cuts fish like a yanagi but can also cut through bone!


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## beardedcrow (Oct 1, 2012)

Review of misono Swedish Suji, out of box sharpness was decent, nothing finger scary.

It is very light and I could use this all day, however it seems fragile and the blade feels like it wants to bend although I doubt it would.

As for people complaining that this knife rusts easily, haven't noticed.

I did notice quick discoloration from lemons.

Overall happy with this knife for sure.

10 min with a 4000 and 8000 and this thing is sharp!


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## mike9 (Jul 13, 2012)

Why not get a Yanagi in white, or blue steel?  Or maybe a Kiritsuke will be more "all purpose" for you.


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## beardedcrow (Oct 1, 2012)

This knife suit me well.

Besides I have 2 nice yanagi's already.

Just need a deba and I think I'm set for a few years.


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## 808jono202 (Sep 3, 2012)

boar_d_laze said:


> Good luck with your new _suji_. I hope it not only does what you want, but does all those things beautifully.
> 
> Paranthetically, I must say that a _nakiri_ is one of the worst choices for an all-rounder in a sushi-ya which I could imagine. But those are my imaginings. What's your reasoning Jon? Do you use anything as short as a _nakiri_ for a lot of slicing and other fish prep?
> 
> ...


Sorry for the long turnaround, been a bit hectic.

I have always preferred a "cleaver" style knife, especially for when there is a LOT of prep to do with produce. I am trying to find an adequate picture of the knife I picked up in Chinatown about a decade ago, and use almost daily, but can't find one that does it justice. . . it's the same shape of the nakiri, but just a bit longer, and a little bit wider. I have done multitudes of slicing with it, loads of Ahi, loads of pork/beef, and even small butchering jobs like short ribs and what not. For me, I like being able to work from the cutting surface, and into the pan when possible, and I like that it acts as a spatula as well. I like it's length as I can get through most fish in one pull, same with beef. The weight is pretty well balanced for my needs, and for me I just like it's feel. . . your mileage may vary.

The Usuba has a single edge, is very similar to a Nikiri, and a wee bit thinner, IIRC.

Different strokes, for different folks.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Sorry to be unclear 808Jon. Wrong Jon. I meant Jon Broida.

FWIW, a usuba is_ much less_ like a nakiri or ordinary Chinese "cleaver" (or the Japanese chuko-bocho variant) than you imagine. Compared to a nakiri, usuba are heavier and thicker, the edges are differently shaped, usubas promote a variety of specialized cutting techniques which nakiri don't do well, and usuba require substantially more skill to use well.

BDL


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## beardedcrow (Oct 1, 2012)

Could anyone recommend a great gyuto?

Prefer 240mm and carbon.
Damascus pattern is very nice also.

Budget would be around 400-500


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