# just starting as "sous chef"



## floydian1989 (Aug 4, 2015)

hello everyone, 

I am transitioning from a short-order breakfast cook with experience cooking and prepping in campus settings, but never having worked on the line before i wanted to move into that fast paced environment. Searching online, I found a local high-volume restaurant with an opening for a head line cook. Interviewed, went in to work the fry section, absolutely horrendous food safety standards, so many quality issues, no organization or systems in place of any kind. At the end of my shift the owner I told the owner that I would love to speak with her about how my shift went, yada, yada, yada. I met with her the following week and brought in all of my notes and an agenda for our meeting. Explaining everything wrong with the kitchen and the lack of systems, etc. she broke down and explained how difficult it has been for her to find good employees and to maintain the level of food quality, consistency, and ticket times that the restaurant can produce. She begged for me to come back and try to work another shift to see if we could find a role for me in the kitchen. I have worked as a fry and grill cook in short order restaurants but never cooking beef tenderloin or plating the quality of food that their prices call for. Having said that, everyone else in the kitchen basically has zero clue what is going on in terms of being an actual cook. The fry station has two cooks who are complete knuckleheads and battle constantly all day. D is a 45 year old steroid user who pulls tickets before they are completed and has a strange obsession with keeping things clean without actually cleaning anything (wiping counters that are already clean while his fried items are dragging or he hasnt even thrown them down yet), J is a 27 year old who just spent 7 years in jail for assault, he is so hot-headed he says he can do everything in the fry section by himself, yet the entire service is constantly dragging because he forgets to fire items or is too busy monitoring everyone else in the kitchen that he never even looks at his tickets. Jon, the chef is so jaded and burnt-out that he barely monitors anything in the kitchen except the saute station he mans during lunch and dinner service. There are 3 dishwashers, two dedicated prep workers, and 4 expeditors. After working another shift, I was offered the position of sous chef by the owner and Jeff. Now, after having worked at the restaurant for over a week, I have been trying to implement systems like a running inventory sheet on every prep reach-in, labels on every item that is prepped or opened, etc. I ran my first ever staff meeting with the kitchen last week, explaining what the labels are and how we are implementing systems for organization. I am trying to start a new system every week while still monitoring and correcting any mistakes with the previous week's system. I really really love the work I am doing and am getting paid well, there is just so much to be done I'm trying to prioritize my tasks and decide what can be done in the short term to boost production and lower costs. Should i feel bad if i am not working on the line so much as monitoring how the line is producing and basically babysitting these cooks that cant  get their act together? What are the most essential beginning systems to help lower food costs? ami even filling the role of a traditional sous chef? I am trying to set prep levels on all items so that we can cut payroll by having the prep workers have the cooks' stations set up for their service. Is this the way to go? I know that this is going to be not only a lengthy discussion, but the first of many as I really need professional advice on how to manage people, costs, recipes, scheduling, the whole kitten caboodle. Thank you so much for any advice you can give.


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## chefbuba (Feb 17, 2010)

Sentence structure ...........My eyes are bleeding.


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## floydian1989 (Aug 4, 2015)

chefbuba said:


> Sentence structure ...........My eyes are bleeding.


Sorry if I offended you with my sentence structure. I am working a thirteen hour shift and only have time to write on my break. Thank you for utilizing this forum to the best of your abilities and helping me as much as you possibly can. Your advice is so marvelously useless.


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## chefbuba (Feb 17, 2010)

Posts like yours often get passed by, they are hard to read. A well written post will have 100's of years of experience thrown at you.

I skimmed over your post but won't reread it as written to offer any of my 30 years experience.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Well, first lesson is to not be snarky and perhaps see that chefbuba might have a point?


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

Haha good luck and have fun!



conorallen1989 said:


> hello everyone,
> I am transitioning from a short-order breakfast cook with experience cooking and prepping in campus settings, but never having worked.....
> RED FLAG
> 
> ...


My advice, really; take a deeeeeeep breath. Write down your goals for the kitchen, go over them with the Chef. Ask the Chef his goals. Work on them, cook stuff.

Dont chince people out on the internet, calling him " Chef" is very rude. Your not going to fix the place, don't try to, just fit in have fun and LEARN.


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## floydian1989 (Aug 4, 2015)

Ok I was working when I read the original post from chef Bubba and was upset at the general attitude of the post. I apologize for overstepping, I am only seeking advice. I only have a mobile phone to respond to you on and don't mean to seem rude in any way. 

My issue is that I was literally hired as a problem solver by the owner of the restaurant. I was hired to fix the kitchen. The chef asked me to help implement these systems, the owner aked the same. Even if I am not fulfilling the traditional role of a "sous chef" that's the title I was given.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

The problems you are solving 


> I have been trying to implement systems like a running inventory sheet on every prep reach-in, labels on every item that is prepped or opened, etc.


do not seem to be the ones that the owner mentioned


> she broke down and explained how difficult it has been for her to find good employees and to maintain the level of food quality, consistency, and ticket times that the restaurant can produce.


What you are implementing is not bad, but from reading your posts there seem to be more glaring problems that need to be addressed.


> Having said that, everyone else in the kitchen basically has zero clue what is going on in terms of being an actual cook. The fry station has two cooks who ... battle constantly all day. Dave... pulls tickets before they are completed.. while his fried items are dragging or he hasnt even thrown them down yet), Josh... he says he can do everything in the fry section by himself, yet the entire service is constantly dragging because he forgets to fire items or is too busy monitoring everyone else in the kitchen that he never even looks at his tickets.


Issues like this speak more to the heart of the owner's concerns


> she broke down and explained how difficult it has been... to maintain the level of food quality, consistency, and ticket times that the restaurant can produce.


All the systems in the world don't matter diddly if the line isn't fixed.

This is where I would focus my initial efforts and I would do it by working the line. Spend time with each individual in order to show them the best way to accomplish their duties in the most efficient way. Side benefit being introducing them to the practicality of your thoughts on labeling, prep lists, par lists, etc. Then let them have a go at it but being close enough to step in with corrections as needed if they start to go astray from what you showed them.

Also working the line will give you better insight in ways to cut labor cost, because from reading your post, they are probably high.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Best to skip names or use aliases when discussing your BOH co workers on the web.
Chef Talk has a huge following.
All it takes is one casual lurker ( who knows with all those employees one may even be a member) and your cover is pretty much blown.

The owner who keeps "breaking down" and the burned out chef may take offense......

Just sayin'

mimi


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

I agree with @cheflayne ,

Working with the individuals side by side will give you a better indication of what's needed to be done. Lead by example. This is probably the only way for you to gain respect from the kitchen, especially if the chef is burnt. If there has been no leadership, the crew is probably hanging on. That bunch of zeros may very well be a bunch of heros. You have not been there that long. It's best to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. If after working with them they are zeros. then out the door.

Main thing is to identify a couple of things you want to accomplish on every shift. Whatever happens, get those done no matter what. If you don't leave there after a hard day and feel good about your few accomplishments, burnout is to follow. It also is the makes of a good manager/sous. Have fun!


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

My comment has to do with your very first line:

_*I am transitioning from a short-order breakfast cook with experience cooking and prepping in campus settings, but never having worked on the line before i wanted to move into that fast paced environment.*_

If I'm not mistaken a short order cook IS working a line no?

If this be true you have some pretty good talents going for you, especially on a busy breakfast shift.

These are the things you teach to the line guys.

I am in agreement with Cheflayne.

Also please recognize that you are not a Sous Chef.

The Sous is the second in command and should know everything the Chef knows

From reading your thread, I can see that you are on the right track, but you must develop the means to implement your ideas while not affecting the Chef and crew already there.

It is a hard task to do.

The things you are asking for can not be related on an internet site.

YOU must go out and find the answers, either by reading, or real life experience.

Like Bubba said, we have a lot of years experience here but even with that, it is a road only you can take.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

flipflopgirl said:


> Best to skip names or use aliases when discussing your BOH co workers on the web.
> Chef Talk has a huge following.
> All it takes is one casual lurker ( who knows with all those employees one may even be a member) and your cover is pretty much blown.
> 
> ...


good job

m.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Hi conorallen,

I hope I'm not too late, and that you are still subscribing to this thread.

I have the advice you need:

The owner has every right to terminate the Chef for not fulfilling his duties.

From your post, I gather the Chef is not performing as per the owner\s expectations.

And yet, the owner is still paying him a salary and allowing him to carry on.

So my advice is, never work for anyone who bellyaches about their Chef and yet still allows him to carry on.

I realize that this is not the advice you want, but it is the advice you _*need*_.

Fahgettabout portion control and prep lists and cleaning schedules, if you don't have the Chef's backing, than you are just wasting time, an experience in frustration.

If the owner can't turf the Chef, then the owner can't turf the non-performing employees, which leaves you running around trying to make everything right.

Come back to the owner when she has a new Chef installed.....


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## floydian1989 (Aug 4, 2015)

The chef has my back in terms of implementing systems in the kitchen. Over the two weeks I have been working, I have noticed his personality coming out more and we have connected in some ways. I have now started to transition into his true "sous chef", backing him up and trying to run the operation of every station in the kitchen. 

Along with managing the kitchen and its personnel, I try to address every issue that the owner and/or any personnel bring to my attention on a daily basis. The kitchen had no systems or "implementor" previous to my hire, I was essentially hired to create, oversee, and manage restaurant systems that are typical on our industry. 

Today i cooked and managed operations for a private gathering in our patio for 35 people. In the morning I made three variations of meatballs for the owner and chef to try ( we 86'd the bagged frozen meatballs the night before, we ran out due to inadequate inventory systems), the more "italian" meatball I made was chosen and served for the gathering! Now I just need them to get away from the canned pasta "sauce ", we can serve them some real food! 

I am working so hard every day to improve this restaurant, as I feel that someday I could move so far up the management scale (the owners are slightly older than middle aged, I am 26).

I appreciate all of your time, 
Thank You


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## sicariix (Sep 30, 2014)

I've been doing this a while now and it seems to me your on the right track. But one thing I want to stop and say you need respect of your line staff before they will follow you, but also you need to respect them. In your first post you were doggin on people but didn't know why they did those things that irritated you. I'm not saying be best buddies but start to know and care (even if you don't) about the people that are making your food. This will help you manage everyone successfully. 

Also get in the trenches with your fellow cooks, not only will this build respect, it is an opportunity to train the people around you and train line operations (such as calling of tickets, food safety, plating, and what to do in a crisis situation). This will also open your eyes on why people do thing you don't understand.

I see your constantly looking for issues that's you want to fix, step back and look at what is successful so far in this restaurant, but also look at your employees and see which ones are benefiting from the success.


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## floydian1989 (Aug 4, 2015)

I thank everyone for their valuable input, the comments have been wonderfully motivating! I just want everyone who suggested that I throw myself in the trenches and work the line to gain respect to know this: I do this daily. I regularly train and junp in to help whenever possible, I try to lead by example; taking out the trash, staying until the end of the night to sweep, etc. 

Now to move on to a management question, how does everyone feel about hiring culinary graduates for a dishwasher position with prep work on the side and ability to be promoted? I honestly feel that if I develop a core crew of like-minded people, culinary and intelligence-wise, that I can transform this restaurant into a fine dining establishment. I just fear the know-it-all culinary student who will try to either take my job, buck the system, or leave in a year. Thanks again everyone


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## chefbuba (Feb 17, 2010)

You have yourself in a pickle there. By your own admission you are a short order breakfast cook, nothing wrong with that a strong egg man is always a good find for a breakfast place.

Also stating that you have never cooked beef tenderloin. Just from reading this you might be in over your head, there are a lot of things that a s/o cook would never learn unless they have worked in some more upscale kitchens.

You may be a rock star with the paperwork, systems, schedules, etc but can you make hollandaise, any of the basic stocks and turn those into sauces?

Can you make a proper buerre blanc?

Do you know what sauce charon is.? It's old school but you should know it.

Know how to butcher fish, identify different whole fish and fillets or cut your own steaks? Know the difference between a short loin and a strip loin? Some look very similar.

Make fresh pasta, know the best way to cook different proteins and what sauces might go best with each?

A wet behind the ears culinary student will have studied, seen demos and hopefully had hands on in these areas. You are right in fearing for your job.

What is the chef doing while you are transforming the restaurant to fine dining? What are the owner's plans? From your own admission you have no experience in this area.

What's on the menu now? What do you want to change it to? What does the chef know?

I'm not trying to bust your balls, I think it's great that you got your foot in the door somewhere that you can be of some use for other than flipping eggs.

Just remember that Sous chef titles are given out like government cheese these days, especially in problematic kitchens. It's a way to try get and keep help with a promotion or title with little reward to truly unqualified cooks.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Floydian1989 said:


> I thank everyone for their valuable input, the comments have been wonderfully motivating! I just want everyone who suggested that I throw myself in the trenches and work the line to gain respect to know this: I do this daily. I regularly train and junp in to help whenever possible, I try to lead by example; taking out the trash, staying until the end of the night to sweep, etc.
> 
> Now to move on to a management question, how does everyone feel about hiring culinary graduates for a dishwasher position with prep work on the side and ability to be promoted? I honestly feel that if I develop a core crew of like-minded people, culinary and intelligence-wise, that I can transform this restaurant into a fine dining establishment. I just fear the know-it-all culinary student who will try to either take my job, buck the system, or leave in a year. Thanks again everyone


Now just me talking. and you're in a professional forum.

Um, You honestly feel that if you clone yourself, your short career and experience will result in a fine dining restaurant run by intelligent people? Have you lost your Fin mind? How do I feel? I don't think hiring someone with an education for the pit is a good idea at all. I would understand if they were scheduled there as an internship or cross training so they completely understand the job description. The pit should not perform their job and prep also. The pit, to me, is the most important position in the kitch. If your plongeur has time to prep, you're not scheduling or supervising properly. In 40 yrs, I have never witnessed a time when kitchen sanitation was caught up and there wasn't a single thing for the pit to do.

Know it all culinary graduates? It's obvious that people with some culinary education will intimidate the hell out of you. You're already paranoid. Or you are just completely jealous of them.

Leave in a year? With you it won't take that long. Listen. I would be preaching/teaching them to take your job. That's how it works in management.

Listen, a good manager does not try to clone his experience or intelligence. He or she tries to clone their style and personality.

The pit is one of the areas where you look for a certain type of individual. Someone who doesn't yearn for another position, one who's work ethic includes happiness and satisfaction to have employment. If you don't give this group ownership in what they do, they will always be transient.

I think you should in any type of culinary you can get without interrupting your life to much.

I'm going to chalk up your last post to a large brain fart, maybe sleep deprivation with delusions, or a bipolar episode and when you get some rest and grounding you'll be clearer in the morning..


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## floydian1989 (Aug 4, 2015)

panini said:


> Now just me talking. and you're in a professional forum.
> Um, You honestly feel that if you clone yourself, your short career and experience will result in a fine dining restaurant run by intelligent people? Have you lost your Fin mind? How do I feel? I don't think hiring someone with an education for the pit is a good idea at all. I would understand if they were scheduled there as an internship or cross training so they completely understand the job description. The pit should not perform their job and prep also. The pit, to me, is the most important position in the kitch. If your plongeur has time to prep, you're not scheduling or supervising properly. In 40 yrs, I have never witnessed a time when kitchen sanitation was caught up and there wasn't a single thing for the pit to do.
> Know it all culinary graduates? It's obvious that people with some culinary education will intimidate the hell out of you. You're already paranoid. Or you are just completely jealous of them.
> Leave in a year? With you it won't take that long. Listen. I would be preaching/teaching them to take your job. That's how it works in management.
> ...


I never said i wanted to clone myself. "Like-minded people" does not mean clones of myself, it means employing people interested in the culinary arts and having a passion for food. I honestly did not gain anything from your post. 
Also, I have not only worked as a shortorder breakfast cook, I have worked in multiple campus dining services and several other restaurants. 
I do not find myself intimidated by culinary students or graduates, I like to challenge myself and learn on a daily basis. I do not feel paranoid in any way, I am starting a new job (i have only been there two weeks) and have a normal amount of anxiety about taking on my first "management" position. 
I have friends who suffer from Bipolar disorder and I do not find your joke funny in any way. You should proofread your own reply before you judge others'. The end of your reply is complete gibberish sir: "I think you should in any type of culinary you can get without interrupting your life to much."


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## floydian1989 (Aug 4, 2015)

Also, I want to clarify for everyone that the kitchen is not set up in a traditional way. The menu caters to a clientele that neither cares about nor can afford any number of the dishes or preparations that people have questioned my experience in. I want to LEARN all of these techniques, recipes, management styles, etc...everything I can learn at all times. I want to transform this restaurant and kitchen into a something that I know it can be, I am literally here asking for advice on different topics. I am admitting what I DONT know and am seeking the advice of professionals.
Thats what this forum is for, or at least so I thought. I am not seeking derision or sarcasm relating to my lack of experience or training. I would love to chat with anyone who is seeking to teach or mentor on any of the things I dont know, but can do without the judgment. I applaud and congratulate you all on your illustrious careers and accomplishments, I only approach you in total humility seeking even a drop of your wisdom.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Dishwashers do not do "prep work on the side."  They are a pair of hands when the line gets slammed.  They also:

Peel onions

Crack a case of eggs

Peel potatoes and put them in water

Pick green beans

That is the kind of "prep" work they do.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Before you go changing the whole set up ....

SOMEONE needs to rewrite the business plan from the bottom up.

Sounds like it was either skipped or somehow went off track the first time.

Being management is not just ordering and scheduling.

Just sayin'

mimi


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

O.K. this is not meant in any way to be sarcastic, snarky, or mean spirited.  You've tapped into wealth of knowledge and practical working experience here, and many of us who have been around the block are uncomfortable with your situation.

My question is this:

If one of your main roles is to supervise and instruct line cooks, and you yourself are unfamiliar with techniques, procedures, or knowledge, how will you instruct, correct, discipline, or supervise staff?

What I'm saying is you gotta know just as much or more than your staff, and you gotta have the work experience, and muscle memory to demonstrate this.

I'm also uncomfortable with the fact that you're cleaning up the Chef's mess, that he is still there, that the owner is now paying two salaries for a job that should be done by one person, and that you are looking to him for guidance.  For me, this just doesn't make sense.

Once again, I stress this post is not meant to be snarky or mean spirited.  But I need you to think about what I said.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Floydian1989 said:


> panini said:
> 
> 
> > Now just me talking. and you're in a professional forum.
> ...


The gibberish and the fragmented sentences were a result of inattention. I could not stop thinking about what I just read. Don't give yourself too much credit, my reply was not meant for you to gain anything. My friend, the bipolar, sleep deprived, brain fart comment was not meant to be funny. They are very common conditions with people in the culinary field who overwork.

Again, this is* just me, take it or* *leave it*. I feel that when you're in a professional forum and you address someone who was, or is, in management, you should be prepared. If a manager asks me what I feel about something, it doesn't matter if it's in anonymous print. I will answer just as if that manager physically entered my kitchen and we were face to face. I'm thinking, if you're looking for warm and fuzzy and having your ass kissed or not planning to listen to replies, I would switch to a non professional forum.

If you take the time to read anything I usually post, you would know that is not my MO to judge anyone. I haven't done that since I was a young punk cook. There was no sarcasm on my part about your lack of experience, it is what it is. There have been a multitude of suggestions from very experienced Chefs. Your replies suggests that you have not considered any of them. For your sake I hope you attain the understanding that this experienced forum might prove to be your most valuable asset if you utilize it. It's important to understand that when you post for advice, you consider and try to understand the reply and possibly put it in your repertoire. Posting for the sake of posting or to try and get confirmation for you actions just prove to be futile for the Chefs.

I'm out. I'll be reading./img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

My final thought on that reply was to suggest that you get into some sort of formal culinary/management learning environment. Also 10 hours ago was after 2 AM in the morning.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Floydian1989 said:


> Now to move on to a management question, how does everyone feel about hiring culinary graduates for a dishwasher position with prep work on the side and ability to be promoted? I honestly feel that if I develop a core crew of like-minded people, culinary and intelligence-wise, that I can transform this restaurant into a fine dining establishment. I just fear the know-it-all culinary student who will try to either take my job, buck the system, or leave in a year. Thanks again everyone


I understand where you are coming from but I can't imagine that you would have much luck with such a plan. Culinary grads would be taking a step backwards to accept a dish position. Nothing wrong with a dish job, it is where I started (and I am glad that is the case) and I am a culinary grad, but I did pit first, school second, not the other way around.

Yes, you say the position would offer the potential for promotion, but that should always be the case anyway. By your statement about "or leave in a year" you are obviously desirous of having a long tenured staff. Nothing wrong in this, but if it comes to pass, then the promotion potential pretty much dries up for people wanting a dangling carrot.

The job interviewing process is for weeding out the "know-it-all culinary student". Do the interview process well, and you will lessen your possibilities of having to deal with them.


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## floydian1989 (Aug 4, 2015)

foodpump said:


> O.K. this is not meant in any way to be sarcastic, snarky, or mean spirited. You've tapped into wealth of knowledge and practical working experience here, and many of us who have been around the block are uncomfortable with your situation.
> 
> My question is this:
> 
> ...


I absolutely understand your points and did not find them to be snarky or mean-spirited in any way.

I want to stress the extremely casual and laid-back environment that the kitchen currently enjoys while making a small point about professional chefs and the culinary arts in general;

I completely understand the IMMENSE wealth of knowledge that this forum and its' users can dispense to a young, uneducated person like myself. having said that, I need everyone to understand that this restaurant and its' kitchen are not formal in any way, nor are they filled with culinary professionals. The chef has told me he owned restaurants and yada yada yada, who knows what to believe. He seems to have a grasp on culinary fundamentals (from what I can tell using my young, somewhat untrained eye), but he slacks on food safety, management, and quality of the food the line produces (beyond his own station). I have only been here for two weeks, there is a lot to learn about this business still. I just need everyone here to understand that I am working with a completely non-traditional, very informal, laid-back (to a major fault) kitchen. The people employed on the line are not trained in any form of the culinary arts (except the chef, but I am only assuming that), nor do they care about food. I am trying to find the winners in the crew we have and build a solid crew of food-centric, passionate line cooks, prep cooks, etc.

Also, the "prep" work I was discussing the dishwasher doing is everything that has been talked about by others. I'm not sure what the "pit" means, but I am trying to start the culinary graduate (a 1-yr certificate program, not a full culinary education btw) off as a dishwasher because that is the only position we currently have open, promising to, at any opportunity, give him "prep" work like scrubbing potatoes, peeling vegetables, etc.

Again, I thank everyone for their input


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Floydian1989 said:


> I'm not sure what the "pit" means,


pit being a shortened version of dish pit (slang for dishwashing station)


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

You keep stressing that it is a non-traditional kitchen so such much, that it comes across as a cop-out. You mentioned an owner, so I assuming that it is a business and as such has a bottom line. Am I correct in that assumption?


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

O.K. you want to attract cuilnary professionals, good, I get that.

So now the question is, what can you offer them?

On the one hand many pros will work for peanuts just to work under a 5 star Chef and/or house, working with 1st class ingredients, top of the line equipment, and bragging rights to have worked there.

On the other hand, many experienced pros will work for institutions, if the pay is good.  The reasons are many:  To raise a family, to have some semblance of a life, to save up money for a business or home, whatever.

So what can you offer?

Regarding the culinary school dishwasher....

You can snag a kid going to culinary school, you can snag a kid wanting to go to culinary school next year, but the odds are not  in your favour of getting a culinary school graduate specifically to wash dishes.  Getting a grad for prep work, yeah sure, but no for washing dishes.

Does this make sense?


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## floydian1989 (Aug 4, 2015)

Its not a cop-out, im trying to get the professionals here to understand that not every kitchen is set up like a michelin star restaurant and not all the employees that work in food service are interested in the culinary arts. I am trying to transform the kitchen into something similar to what everyone here talks about and has worked in, but its very far from that at this point. 
And to answer your question, yes this is a business with a bottom line.


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## floydian1989 (Aug 4, 2015)

I am currently paying line cooks 15/hr, 10 for the dishwasher position which seems high for the level of professionalism that this kitchen presents at this point. I started out working fry in a small italian restaurant for 8.25/hr


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Quote:


Floydian1989 said:


> Its not a cop-out, im trying to get the professionals here to understand that not every kitchen is set up like a michelin star restaurant and not all the employees that work in food service are interested in the culinary arts.


Sounds to me like the vast majority of kitchens in the hospitality industry.

Michelin star restaurants are the exception rather than the rule.

Most of the professionals here, unfortunately, are very familiar with the workings of non-Michelin star restaurants. Working at non-Michelin star restaurants may not have been my ultimate goal, but somehow those type of places show up in various spots on my resume...like the vast majority of it.


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## lagom (Sep 5, 2012)

Where are you located? This would have a lot to do with the wage level. I started out making 2.65$ an hour but that was in a PA steel town in the midst of its death spirl and Jimmy Carter was president.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

I'm not trying to compare your kitchen to a 5 star kitchen, what I'm saying is, why should a cook with say, 7 years of decent cooking experience choose your place over another one?  What can you or your Chef offer?


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## chefbuba (Feb 17, 2010)

What kind of food are you serving?


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Floydian1989 said:


> Its not a cop-out, im trying to get the professionals here to understand that not every kitchen is set up like a michelin star restaurant and not all the employees that work in food service are interested in the culinary arts. I am trying to transform the kitchen into something similar to what everyone here talks about and has worked in, but its very far from that at this point.
> And to answer your question, yes this is a business with a bottom line.


Ok, I can't keep quiet. Are you under the impression that most of the people in this forum are/were part of a Brigade in a 5 star kitchen? I think you've been misguided from us explaining the way things should be done. When you get your seat in the Chefs office you'll understand. It's the mentoring mentality. I've surveyed a lot of professionals in all fields. This mentality seems specific to our field and medical professionals. I can't explain it. When you've been around this forum for as long as I have and someone seeks some advice. It's impossible to try an create a 3 dimensional picture of them in their surroundings. So you answer as if they are standing in a seen from the Ratatouille movie. As much as we want to mentor, there's a part in all of us that says, don't make it easy for them, they should go through the same crap as we did. Non of us has the perfect or ideal environment. I'd like a perfect kitchen, but the fact is that I've been pumping millions of dollars worth of product through a 500 Sq. Ft. production area for the last 26 years. If your situation is not ideal, you work on making better. But you can't do it overnight!!! I said once before, tackle a few items a day.

If you've got all takers and no givers your work force will never improve unless all of you are proud of what you do. Every single one of them needs a job description to guide them. Start with one. then move on. Don't have time? go online and steal one and use it as a guide. If they know what is expected of them, you can challenge them. Make it a game/fun. You need to give them ownership of what their responsible for. If you don't, all you'll be doing is pissing into a fan. Now don't just read this, try to picture this in your place.


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## floydian1989 (Aug 4, 2015)

Thank you. This is awesome. I was venting and understand that everyone doesnt work in a michelin star restaurant but i am just working somewhere that the majority of people in the kitchen cannot pronounce the word 'crepe' and do not know how to make any kind of sauce nevermind a buerre blanc, hollandaise, etc. I just need advice on transforming this restaurant into something that i know it can be: a higher-end, locally-sourced, award-winning restaurant.


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## floydian1989 (Aug 4, 2015)

Lagom said:


> Where are you located? This would have a lot to do with the wage level. I started out making 2.65$ an hour but that was in a PA steel town in the midst of its death spirl and Jimmy Carter was president.


I live in massachusetts and our minimum wage has been above 8 for over 10 years


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## floydian1989 (Aug 4, 2015)

chefbuba said:


> What kind of food are you serving?


American "comfort food", seafood, steaks, burgers, salads, 10-30 us dollars a plate


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Hi Floydian,

As before, I want to start off with the caveat that this post is not a negative one, but one to make you think.

Knowledge is never finite, and when I hear "Culinary professional" my interpretation is one who is never happy with their current knowledge and skill sets.

As an employer, one of my major questions towards a new hire is their reason for applying for the job.  Below I will list many--but not all-- "acceptable" or "normal" reasons for someone looking for a new job:

-upgrade in status or position

-upgrade in pay or benefits

-looking for a mentor

-opportunity to work with employees who are motivated and thirst for culinary knowledge

-exposure to"specialties" like in-house butchering/charcuterie, seafood butchery, pastry work, catering, etc

From your posts I understand the following:

-budget only allows for a dishwasher position

-both sous and Chef positions are filled

-Chef not keen on mentoring

-fellow workers not keen on improving culinary knowledge

-kitchen offers no special knowledge or challenges

I don't see many matches between the two lists.  What can your kitchen offer a culinary professional?


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

Here's two more cents. 

 Western or eastern mass? I'd love a short road trip if it isn't too far. 

Otherwise, Panini has mentioned job descriptions. i'll second that. Then hold the staff to the descriptions. 

You're on the right track so far. Implementing new systems, labeling everything, most of all developing standards for the restaurant and then upholding them. 

Keep it clean and organized at all times. Show by example. 

As has been said, this process will take quite some time. Your biggest priority is to maintain close communication with the owner. Not the chef or the cooks and not yourself. Keep checking with the owner to make sure you are both on the same page. 

Because…. at some point, someone is going to have to get fired. Maybe several people. Once you have established standards and shown your willingness to help the cooks develop, they need to fall in line or get out. Employees need tools, materials and training. If they have been given all three and are not holding up their end, they need to go. Period. They are not your friends. 

You set up the kitchen the best you can with what you know. You learn every day and improve every day. Through your actions you show you are serious. Through keeping the owner informed at all times, you should always have her support. No employee should be able to complain about you by telling the owner something she doesn't already know. 

     By your description of the employees, I'm sure one or more may quit on their own, thereby saving you the trouble. But whether they do or not, you and the owner should have a united front in upholding the standards. That goes for the chef as well. In the situation you have described, there can be no bad examples. Either everyone is on board or they leave. Period. 

And that should handle your dish pit/culinary graduate issue because you will soon have other openings available.

     The kitchen should be spotless. Everywhere. Clean the floor from wall to wall, under and behind all equipment. Clean the ceiling, the walk-in, every cooler. Everyone helps, all the time. If necessary, pick a day the restaurant is closed and everyone comes in on the clock and CLEANS for four hours. The equipment should be maintained in good working order. All knobs should be on the stove. If they aren't, get new ones. If equipment is broken or damaged, fix it or replace it. 

 As for prep, lowering costs and working the line. 

     First, mise-en-place is key no matter what you are doing. A french term for having all items ready and in their place at the start of service or the beginning of a recipe. Each station should have all ingredients, tools and equipment ready. Don't expect the prep cooks to do ALL the prep. I've never had a line job that didn't require me to get my act together before service. Each cook should be going through the necessary items needed for the station and making sure it is all there. While the major bulk items should be done ahead like coleslaw or cutting fresh french fries, other items can be done by the line cooks. Figuring out what can be done ahead and what the individual cooks can do may take some time (partly by separating out the whiners from the doers) but the overall goal is to achieve some balance. Some food items don't take long and are best done last minute by the cook.  Maintaining quality should be your guide. 

     Your initial description of your kitchen leads me to this description. During service, someone expedites, which is to say reads and controls the all order tickets as they come in. There should be calm but clear communication between the stations and the expeditor regarding what has been ordered for each ticket. Expeditor calls out "Two salmon" Fish cook replies "Two salmon" or "Yes, chef" to indicate the order has been heard.  As the ticket nears delivery time, expeditor calls "Serving Table 24", I need the steak and fish and chips"  There should be immediate confirmation from the appropriate cook that the food is on it's way. ONE person and one person only is ordering the food and controlling the tickets while directing the assembly and delivery of the plates. Everyone else does their part. If need be, get the owner to come in and expedite if you are busy working with the line cooks. IF you do not have this system in place already, ( and from your initial post it doesn't sound like you do), then get it in place. What they did before is irrelevant. Set the new standard. 

       I'm sure you have a point of sale system. If you don't, the owner should get one. But assuming you do, run a sales report every week. Figure out what you currently make that isn't selling. Cut it from the menu. The sales reports can tell you how much of anything you sold in a given time period, a week, a month, six months. You can then anticipate how much to order and prepare within a certain range so you aren't making twenty pounds when you only need twelve. Or cutting thirty steaks when you only need 23. 

     Food cost. If you don't have a food costing computer program, get one. Figure out the food cost for every item. Written Recipes for every item that every cook follows every time. 

     Look around for other vendors to see what prices you are being charged and whether or not you are getting the quality you need for the price you want. Vendors will charge too much if they can get away with it. Don't make it a secret that you are looking and comparing prices. Knowing they have some competition will help keep the vendors on their toes. Keep insisting on good quality products. When the order comes in, physically check to make sure every item ordered actually got delivered and is of the quality you need. The driver can wait till hell freezes over. 

     For this next part, I will respectfully disagree with my experienced  colleagues. Hire a culinary graduate. Hire a Master Chef. Hire anyone you please. You are the standard bearer. What you don't know you will learn. If you haven't already, learn the five mother sauces. Make them. Learn how to cook a steak to correct temp. Taste the food you make as you make it. Read cookbooks. Learn. There are numerous threads on this website to help you pick out some good ones. The French Laundry and Peterson's "Sauces" are two of my favorites. But there are many more. Read a book on management. There is a good one on Kitchen Management by a Texas chef I believe. Perhaps someone here can remember the name of it. 

     On your day off, find a restaurant whose food you are impressed by and go do a stage for a day to soak up what ever you can. If someone anywhere knows something you don't, ask them to show you. Visit the vendors, purveyors, farms and orchards when ever you can. Meet the players.

     The biggest tool in your arsenal is based on the relationship you have with the owner. She/he needs to know what you are doing, what your limitations are, what your plans are and what direction you want to go in. Others may want the job but You have the job. If the owner has your back, no one can take the job away. If you keep learning and improving yourself and the kitchen, no one needs to. The owner has already stated what she is looking for. You are currently attempting to provide it. Be humble and open to learning from anyone but don't be intimidated by anyone. I have found the better the chef, the more they are willing to teach. They are this way because they continue to learn.  They are better chefs because they have higher standards. 

     As for Michelin places and the general workforce, I'll add this. As someone has already pointed out, Michelin places make up a very small percentage of restaurants. Very small. The rest are just like yours. The standards you find in most places are appalling. The standards of most "cooks" are appalling. For too many, it is just a job.

Having high standards means you will attract those with high standards. Those who don't feel your standards are necessary will find some where else to go. Let them go. 

     It may be true that you don't know how to make a proper vichyssoise or a remoulade or a demi-glace. Those you can learn and you will.  What no one can teach you is to have high standards for yourself and the kitchen you are in.  Label, Organize, Taste, Learn, Cook, Clean, Understand, Take notes. Most of all, expect and quietly demand the same of everyone in your kitchen.  Or they leave.


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## fablesable (Oct 11, 2014)

Okay....so I have been reading this post from the beginning and following along as it goes. My one main question is this: WHY are you at this kitchen? Meaning, what prompted you to apply? Then learning the issues of the owner and chef, what prompted you to stay?

The reason for the questions is to clarify your mindset because as of now, all your posts sound like you are a "fixer" type person. Not that there is anything wrong with this per se however, in a kitchen, regardless of it being a 5-star or a mom and pop shop, technical culinary training along with experience is what is needed to be someone with the capacity to "fix" a kitchen. Along with an owner who actually KNOWS BUSINESS. It sounds to me through your posts that the owner of this place does not know business.

I want you to take a step back at this moment and look at the big picture. You have an owner who struggles to run her business and attract proper staff. You have a chef who has "checked out" and is now just in it for a paycheque. You have an uneducated, possibly under-appriciated staff on the line. To top it all off you do not even have a solid heart in the kitchen doing the dishes and keeping the kitchen going.

All of this tells me that your RED FLAGS should have been flapping in your face by day one let alone day three at this place and you should be looking for a job elsewhere. Here is why: The chef being "checked out" means that he is not getting proper support from his boss, the owner. The crew that is in the kitchen has been trying to get by with lack of proper leadership and guidance so they just do what they think is "good enough". The unorganized aspect and improper food handling by the kitchen is a result of the former two issues. All in all, it is the owner's bloody fault. Her whining to you to "fix" it with a damsel in distress type wording is ridiculous. Especially when we take into consideration your sous chef position and lack of technical skills and management knowhow. That kinda made me have a WTF moment. (not being rude there, it is truth).

I like your gumption and genuine want to learn and challenge yourself however, this is NOT the place to do it in any capacity and will not add to your experience in a good way. It will only subtract from your career. So my advice to you would be to look for a position in a kitchen that has a solid reputation with great reviews as this is the atmosphere that will garner you with the most challenges and skill that will add to your career. Even if you have to start from the ground up in a highly respected kitchen, you will fly through the positions because of your attitude and experience. Education is not needed in these kitchens so much as a good attitude and open mind for learning.

If you wish to stay then remember: shyte rolls downhill and the two biggest hurdles will be the owner and the chef. Get these two on board with your vision to help set the rest of the team. The chef might be a problem, if he is, then leave him out and just work with the owner. If you try to work hard changing people on the line first then you are not guaranteed the support from the person you need it the most (owner) and all your hard work will have been in vain if they are not on board. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

What meals does the restaurant serve, lunch and dinner, just dinner? How many covers per meal period? What is the brigade setup per meal period? What is the food costs? What is the labor cost? How much authority do you have?


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## cstanford (Jul 3, 2008)

You understand it's not a professional, high quality kitchen.  You're just going to have to figure out for yourself whether the ownership group really wants it to be one (or can afford it). If they say the do and the money is not a problem, then the obvious question is why is it in such sad shape then?

There's no reason for almost any kitchen not to be set up on the model of a fine restaurant.  If you have more than one employee then that implies some sort of segregation of duties, right?  Why reinvent the damn wheel?  Put in an abbreviated brigade system and make it work.  What other choice do you have?  Are you a better chef than Escoffier?  He is credited with the concept.  All of this has been blueprinted for you.


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## akat (Jun 9, 2015)

feed them some good food, even better get them to make it . when someone is excited by the work, you don't need to babysit.

also , chill the freak out. boil a frog so slowly it doesn't even notice.


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