# Lasagna with Fresh Pasta



## cinnamongirl (Sep 18, 2010)

I've been making fresh pasta for over a year, but have never used it for lasagna or another baked Italian dish.

My question is do I need to boil the freshly made pasta before using it in the lasagna?  I've searched the web and have seen; boiling is required and boiling is not required.  Which is correct?

Thanks.


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

You need not boil the pasta. Just make sure the sauce is more runny then usual to absorb the starch.

Store bought pasta need not be cooked first as well.


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## sparkie (Feb 12, 2011)

You absolutely should boil the pasta. I had heard that many people do not and gave this method a try. I was not happy with the result. As for the correctness of the technique, maybe one of the resident Italians here can shed some light. Anyway here is my experience...

1) The texture was not right. I have a feeling that liquids from the sauce began to eat away at my fresh pasta before they were hot enough to cook the sheets. (I suppose if I had used hot ingredients this wouldn't be a problem?) Also, the edge peices didn't come out crispy. There always used to be fights over the corners at family gatherings cause everyone wanted as many crispies as they could get.

2)The machine I use (Imperia Restaurant) makes the sheet a lil bit smaller than the width of a standard hotel pan. When cooked, the sheet fits perfectly. No cutting or overlapping. This one probably only applies to satisfy my own anal retentivness, but I don't care it makes me happy.

I have found, at least with my own fresh pasta, that it wants to be cooked very fast. I get the best result when the water temp does not drop very much & cooks the pasta very quickly. If I overload the pot and it takes too long to boil again they will be mushy. Can someone explain this? was my thinking above correct?

Remeber to shock the cooked pasta & dry it between some dish towels. Esp having to dry the sheets is kinda tedious but it is a very important step that I just can't find a way around.


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## cinnamongirl (Sep 18, 2010)

Thanks Chefross and Sparkie for your comments.

My pasta machine is Marcato Atlas150 and it has done me well for home applications. I don't have access to a commercial grade machine. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/frown.gif

I'm making a veg lasagna this weekend so it should have more moisture than a meat lasagna. I think I will boil and stock the noodles before assembling the lasagna.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Either way is acceptable however when using pasta sheets without precooking make sure you have added mor sauce to the layers as the raw pasta as noted above will absorb more liquid.  I would suggest not cutting into noodle form but leave in sheets that fit the pan you will cook the lasagnsa in. In many a case I prefer starting with raw as a lot of places over boil and then bake . Therefore it is overcooked. I always cook my lasagna covered till the last 15 or 20 minutes then uncover.

Let cool then cut in portions and heat in additional sauce over it  for service.  It taste better next day anyway , the flavors marry .


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## granny smith (Jan 31, 2011)

I make my own lasagna noodles and I don't boil them first. I make the noodles, cut them to size, then lay them out to dry for half an hour or so before assembling the lasagna. Then I make it the same way I would if I were using parboiled commercially made noodles. It tastes so much better, and the texture is better, with the homemade noodles!


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## sparkie (Feb 12, 2011)

Wow. Lots of love for the raw sheets! I must admit that my confidence is shaken a lil ;-)  Talked to some of the Italians I know & a few of them admitted that although it is a tempting idea to skip the whole pre-cooking part, none of them had ever done it. Of course they are all form the same place (San Marino) so I should expect the same answer.

Never thought about letting the sheets dry before using them. Thanks, that gives me something to think about. May have to experiment some more. I'm always looking for ways to make my work more efficient. On the other hand if it ain't broke...


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## simone metalli (Mar 1, 2011)

I live in Bologna, the city where Lasagne was born, and I have a restaurant. My aunt (she is 85) boiled the pasta, exactly the sfoglia made by eggs, flavour and salt. But the real lasagne don't have mushrooms, tomato or mozzarella. The real lasagne are made by ragu: you have to fried onion, celery and carrot with olive oil in small pieces, when it is fried you must put in the meat (preferably pork) and let fried. Then you have to add the tomato sauce and cooking for about three hours. You must put the sfoglia (pasta) on the bottom of the baking tin, to put ragu with besciamella ( a mixed made by butter, flavour and milk cooked up to a soft cream) and Parmigiano cheese and then add another layer until you have filled the baking tin.

Is better to put on the last layer a piece of pasta to cover the head of the lasagne so they can't burn on the top.

This is the Lasagne that I sell in my restaurant in Bologna.

I hope my English is sufficiently clear.

If you have some questions I am here


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## chrisbelgium (Oct 2, 2010)

Simone, please keep posting on this forum. It would be so nice to have an Italian chef answering over here and teach all of us Italian food lovers. Benvenuti!


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## sparkie (Feb 12, 2011)

Yes sir! I look forward to hearing more from you also!


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Sounds good to me, like a lot of other good dishes what we have here  has been Americanized as has Pizza


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

Simone

An excellent post!  I usually make my lasagne with a ragu, too.


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## simone metalli (Mar 1, 2011)

It is normal that the italian kitchen that you eat here in Italy is not the italian kitchen that you eat in USA or Uk...when I was in Scotland or in Canada i tried to eat in a italian restaurant...it was horrible...in Montreal they serve to me Chicken with Mushrooms and Spaghetti with tomato in the same dish!!!!


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

Ciao Simone,

welcome to the forums.  I've lived in Rome for 35 years though I'm American, or I should say, Italian-American.  Growing up there in an Italian-American context, I thought I was Italian - until I came here and found out just how American I am.  

Italian -American cuisine is very different from Italian.  Though some of the immigrants maintained their traditional dishes, like my family made tordelli with 3 kinds of browned meat, onion, spinach and cheese all in the same filling, as it was made in Barga (prov. di Lucca)  where they emigrated from, but made lasagne with a layer of ricotta and no bechamel - i presume because lasagne was not a dish they made in Barga in those days (no one had an oven) and they picked up the italian-american version from their friends.  No doubt the lasagne with ricotta was typical of some other small town in Italy and caught on in the states for some reason.  I've often wondered where this came from.  Maybe you know?  Certainly not Bologna.  My Italian mother in law from Pontecorvo (Lazio) would put bechamel, plain tomato sauce (napolitan ragu) and sometimes little meatballs in a layer (probably influenced by timballo) in her lasagne and she never made any dish that was not part of her tradition - never used a cookbook, and made a very limited number of dishes, always in the same way.  Probably there are a hundred varieties of lasagne, though everyone seems to consider Bologna to be The lasagne.

(My husband used to want to get of the train when it would stop in Bologna and run out to one of the people selling trays of lasagne on the platform because it was so renowned. The train would stop only 5 mnutes on the platform!  I'd go crazy thinking he wouldn't make it back, but such is the appeal of Lasagne Bolognese!) 

Anyway, I have no problem with putting cheese on fish pasta if it seems good that way, or of having pasta on the side or as part of a chicken dish (Chicken Tetrazzini - invented in America for the wonderful soprano Luisa Tetrazzini.) as long as it tastes good.

Americans like chicken in everything, it seems, and though I do recoil at the idea of chicken on pizza or chicken in a tomato sauce, i do love chicken tetrazzini.  Traditional dishes are great, but i also like to try new things - for me, that's the whole appeal and art of cooking. 

Anyway, it will be interesting to see your take on things, because you'll find that Italian food is very highly considered and lots of people want to know how things are made traditionally.


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## simone metalli (Mar 1, 2011)

Thanks a lot for your message, you are right, in Italy there isn't only an Italian kitchen but every city, such as in Emilia-Romagna, has a traditional kitchen.

Probably I will surprise you but my grandma too use the ricotta but she used it for the cannelloni (you certainly know what they are), I don't know very well the Kitchen of Tuscany or Lazio, I know for example the ribollita (that is very good)...

You are right, the american know the Italian-American kitchen and probably if they eat in an original italian restaurant they don't like so much...

I have seen that in Canada for example use a lot of chicken, you know that in Italy chicken must'nt eat with pasta, the Fettuccine Alfredo doesn't exist.

I will be very happy to talk with you and with the other people who are in this beautiful forum...and if you will stop in Bologna please come in my restaurant and you will be my host...


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

I have a"tongue in cheek" question   

Do they cook this way in Tuscany? I ask because all the Olive Garden chain (chefs) go there to learn how to cook Italian. And everybody know Olive Garden is real Italian food right???


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## chrisbelgium (Oct 2, 2010)

Simone, don't know wether this item fits in this lasagna thread, but, many times I read a _vincisgrassi_ recipe but never actually made it. Sounds and looks like an ancient type of lasagna with porcini and chickenlivers.

I have no idea from which Italian region it originates, maybe you ever heard of it or made it? Anyway, maybe stuff for another thread...?


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

Chefross said:


> I have a"tongue in cheek" question
> 
> Do they cook this way in Tuscany? I ask because all the Olive Garden chain (chefs) go there to learn how to cook Italian. And everybody know Olive Garden is real Italian food right???


Do they cook in what way? Lingua nel guanciale? /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

Never ate in olive garden. I never ever eat italian when i go to the states, there are too many things i miss that are american and international that i just can't get here. And mai e poi mai (never, and again, NEVER) eat in italianate restaurants.


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## cinnamongirl (Sep 18, 2010)

Hi Simone,

Welcome to the form and thanks for insight on the pasta for lasagna.  I'm going to follow your Aunt's lead and boil my noodles.  The sauce I'm making for this lasagna will have only vegetables (good olive oil, onions, garlic, carrots, celery and tomato sauce).  Someone who is coming to dinner is a Vegetarian.  In the past I have use either a bechamel sauce and ricotta in my lasagnas, not sure which one I'll use this time.

.


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## simone metalli (Mar 1, 2011)

I suggest to try to use bechamel but not too liquid, if you bechamel is too liquid add flavour.

If there are some vegetarians lasagna with only vegetables is a good idea, i suggest to you to make lasagna with cheese like asiago or other hard cheese and red chichory for example...good work...

Siduri give to you a good board...i dont' know what is "Olive Garden"...

I post to you what is vincisgrassi:

Si tratta di una sorta di variante regionale delle lasagne al forno tipica delle Marche, ma anche delle zone umbre di confine con il maceratese, in particolare della montagna folignate. È un primo piatto che va tradizionalmente condito con ragù e con l'aggiunta di besciamella. Nelle ricette tradizionali sono presenti anche rigaglie di pollo ed eventualmente anche animelle, midollo, cervella bovine o tartufo. Nell'impasto delle lasagne possono entrare Marsala o vino cotto.

I translate it for you:

It is a regional variation of lasagna made in Marche and in some part of Umbria, a central italian regions. It is made with bechamel and ragu' but in the original recipes there are also chicken's offal and marrow, beef's brain or truffle. In the mixture there is also Marsala wine or mulled wine.

I don't know what they are, I never ate this plate altough Marche is the adjoining region with Emilia-Romagna, my region. In some parts of central or south Italy are used poor parts of pork or beef because were poor region where in the ancient peolpe ate what they have, my city instead was a rich city (in Bologna there is the oldest University of Europe - 1088 d.c.) and so there is a rich kitchen...


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## simone metalli (Mar 1, 2011)

If you have a vegetarian for dinner is a good solution, you can also make your lasagna with asiago or other hard cheese and cicory...

If your bechamel is too liquid (to have a good bechamel it must'nt be too much liquid) you must add flavour, it is very useful

I dont' know what is Olive Garden, sorry...

Vincisgrassi is a regional type of lasagna made in Marche and some parts of Umbria, central Italy regions.

You must use ragu' and bechamel but you need to add chicken's offal, beef's brain or marrow and finally you must add Marsala wine or mulled wine...I never ate it but Marche are very near to Bologna, about 200 km, and I know it.

I think if you have others question is better to open a new topic, meanwhile good work to Cinnamongirl...


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

Simone, Olive garden is a chain of restaurants (catena) that supposedly have Italian cuisine (or Tuscan cuisine?) but really it is very much American influenced.  I've never eaten there.


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## breadmaker man (Jan 25, 2011)

I always prefer mine boiled first. I tried without the first time and even with extra sauce it didn't have that amazing texture you get from the pasta when you boil it.


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## simone metalli (Mar 1, 2011)

I supposed that Olive Garden was a chain of restaurant,  I will go to the site and I will see what they prepare...


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Olive Garden is terrible.  I used to go there when I was a teenager because I didn't know any better and I thought it was good.  It's one of those restaurants that covers every plate with marinara sauce.  Seriously, how can every dish have marinara sauce on top of it?


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## simone metalli (Mar 1, 2011)

I have seen the website, it's horrible...it isn't italian kitchen...it's only a strange mixture of food...


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

Simone Metalli said:


> I have seen the website, it's horrible...it isn't italian kitchen...it's only a strange mixture of food...


Hence my tongue in cheek question.......Their commercials used to feature their (Chefs) being sent to Tuscany where there is supposedly an "Olive Garden" school to teach them how to cook their signature menu items. That commercial has since been removed from the air waves.


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## mark013 (Feb 26, 2012)

Simone, I Tavel to Italy 2times per year near Desenzano, I love the food there in the north. I try to reproduce all the dishes I love, pumpkin ravioli! This is one of my favorite! I alway boil my fresh pasta. I don't think I would gamble skipping this.


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## margcata (Sep 18, 2011)

Ciao,

Firstly, I am writing to reply to the 1st question which is: does one have to boil fresh pasta ? One has to boil pasta whether it is a dry variety, or a dry egg variety or a fresh variety, though the time shall be less with a fresh variety.

I too am half Italian and we make our Lasagna with a Ragú which has been long simmered and made with:

extra virgin olive oil

onion 

leek

carrot

celery

milk

Italian bread

ground beef or veal

ground pork

sweet sausage uncased

piquant sausage uncased

dry white wine

pancetta

peeled and deseeded and chopped tomato

tomato paste

*** Garlic: In Emilia Romagna, Italy, garlic was avoided to obvious bad breath however, in the USA, garlic is loved and enjoyed freely; so it is optional and the cook´s choice  

The Emilia Romagna Government in the City of Bologna which is where the ragù originated has an Italian and English version of their documented recipe. One can contact the tourism board online for it.

Also, Mario Batali creates a Ragù which is quite similar to the one mentioned by the Government and possibly can be found in Bon Appetit Magazine or Food and Wine Magazine online.

Have a nice Sunday.

Margaux Cintrano.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

I've used the parboiled noodles for pasta without boiling them. Very convenient. Also a great shortcut to manicotti for a home cook. Boil 5 minutes, fill and roll.

For a fresh pasta in lasagna, I'd boil it first. I'd be tempted it remove it a minute or so early, I admit.


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## margcata (Sep 18, 2011)

Vincisgrassi is a hearty and rich lasagna from the Marches region of Umbria. Vincisgrassi are the lasagne type flat sheets of pasta and it is usually filled with a chicken ragù, similar to a Bolognese and a white cream sauce similar to a bechamel.

The chicken ragu iingredients are:

olive oil, minced onion, sausage, pancetta, celery, carrot, chicken meat, bay leaf, tomato paste, ground cloves, chicken livers, Marsala wine, tomatoes, chicken stock, and milk.

This information is from the The Marches Government Tourist Office when I had travelled there.

Have a nice Sunday.

Margaux.


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## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

I've done homemade lasagna many times. An Italian matrona taught me years ago. Simone and margcata are totally right. This recipe may change (to me it's an egg pasta) but you need to let the dough rest for a while, let the pasta sheets (thin and hard) dry on cotton cloth, boil the pasta 1 minute in salted water, cool it down in iced water, and let it dry again. Then the ragú, the béchamel, etc.

Se non è vero, è ben trovato. Ringraziando la madonna. Sempre.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

It can also be made without boiling the pasta first, but you have to add a lot more sauce as it would absorb it fast.


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## linny29 (Oct 9, 2010)

Ok, group trip to Italy! I want to try some REAL Italian food!!!


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## kaneohegirlinaz (Apr 24, 2011)

I watched an America’s Test Kitchen episode where they “par boiled” the lasagna noodles by placing them in a 9X13 inch glass baking dish, pouring rapidly boiling water over to cover and then leaving them for a period of time.  The noodles were them patted dry and then they assembled the dish.  Now that was using Barilla “No Boil” dried sheets, I was wondering if I could do that with fresh sheets?


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## sparkie (Feb 12, 2011)

I haven't seen this episode, but I feel like this technique would not be a good idea for fresh pasta. In general, this sounds like something my wife would file under the "rationality of irrationality". Why wouldn't you just drop the pasta into the water you just boiled? The water still needs to be drained, the pasta still needs to be shocked and patted dry. Again, without seeing the episode, I fail to see any rational benefit from this method.

Here's a problem that I run into with making lasagna. ( My only experience is with fresh made pasta.) If you over crowd the pan( or basket in my case) the sheets will stick to themselves or each other. This can also happen when the water is not at a rolling boil. In fact, I had to make ten pans today and struggled a bit with this. In the name of getting all the sheets cooked in as little time as possible, I pushed the limits of what I could cook at a time. Had a few sheets that I slowly shredded to bits trying to release them from each other. I'm afraid that this is what'll happen with the ATK method.

I have experimented with several different ways of cutting corners to make the lasagne faster. Some work just fine, some total failure, others may be good enough, but don't result in something specific to my taste. The biggest thing I can't get around is cooking the sheets. I cook them one at a time. Shock, dry, lay in the pan, sauce and repeat. One at a time is the ideal. You have max control over the cooking of the sheets. Shock quickly, the sheet will continue to absorb even ice water. Dry right away and build the dish. If you want to cook more at a time it means holding in the water bath unless you plan on drying the sheets and stacking them using oil so they don't stick(as I did today) or you need more than one person building the lasagne while you are cooking the sheets. To get the optimal texture, I haven't found a way around cooking fresh pasta one by one

If you do give it a shot, let me know how it goes.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

kaneohegirlinaz said:


> I watched an America's Test Kitchen episode where they "par boiled" the lasagna noodles by placing them in a 9X13 inch glass baking dish, pouring rapidly boiling water over to cover and then leaving them for a period of time. The noodles were them patted dry and then they assembled the dish. Now that was using Barilla "No Boil" dried sheets, I was wondering if I could do that with fresh sheets?


And it worked? I have a huge problem with lasagna noodles. I've only tried the barilla no boil and I dropped them into a pot of boiling water. When I took them out a minute later and into a collander they all stuck together, I couldn't pry them apart. It was disgusting!


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## sparkie (Feb 12, 2011)

Sounds like those Barilla sheets cook similarly to fresh pasta. You can't just drop them in the water or you and up with Kou's mess. You need a fryer basket that fits inside your boiling water pot. Or use one of those wok strainers ( do people call that a spider?). This way you can cook one or two or four sheets( depends on the size of your pot) at a time, fish them out, and drop in an ice water bath.

I was trying to make this and few other things more clear by editing my previous post, but the changes will not post. They are still there when I try to edit again, but every time I submit, the same old poorly worded post is staring at me


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## chefbuba (Feb 17, 2010)

The Barilla "no boil" sheets are pre cooked, they do not require any cooking beforehand. They are meant to be used dry.

Are they as good as cooking fresh pasta or dried sheets? No, but 95 % of the people would never notice any difference.

I use the Barilla sheets at home.


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## nicko (Oct 5, 2001)

I have used the barilla pre-cooked sheets and have had no problems with them. Of course they don't have the same texture as fresh made pasta but for weekday home pasta they are just fine. Actually a very versatile product I think.


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## kaneohegirlinaz (Apr 24, 2011)

http://www.cookscountry.com/recipes/Baked-Manicotti-with-Meat-Sauce/20697/?incode=M00KSCR00

I also get them mixed up, it was on Cook's Country

Anyway,

Yes, KK this method works great!!

My husband didn't care for that much cheese, so I'm going to try this with a meat filling next time, but it works for for the lasagna dish better than dealing with all the drama

Like Nicko, said works great for a weeknight super


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## curtispnw (Feb 16, 2012)

Chef Metalli

I am excited to see an Italian chef posting and look forward to reading them all, in my Sous Chef/Slave days I worked for an Italian Chef, he made many wonderful dishes that I have not seen in any cook book, when ever I asked about specific region he was from, he would say a lot, but never really answer my question, I fear he was trained in America, probably on the east coast. I love Italian food and think I could ask a least 500 questions, but I must go to work, there is cooking to be done. Hope to see more posts soon. We made our lasagna with ricotta, sliced meatballs and sliced sausage, probably an American verison, Olive Garden is not a restaurant, it is a corporation that wants to appeal to the masses, and is only interested in money.

Have a great day


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## ellen porter (Dec 16, 2011)

It seems to me boiling fresh pasta - and if so, for how long, is a matter of personal preference. I would not in lasagna because of it being baked, I'd want the noodles to have more substance than would be possible if they were boiled then baked.

"Italian" food in the USA would almost certainly be Americanized. There are so many regional differences within Italy. For instance, northern Italians don't use much tomato/marinara at all. Bologna is in central/northern Italy, so I think Simon's approach is traditional for his region.

And Americanized means different things in different places. For instance, Olive Gardens here in California have a lot on the menu that is not covered in marinara sauce. It seems strange to someone in Italy what they do have though. Thing is Olive Garden is a casual dining restaurant, it has to appeal to a massive number of those in its own region. With most Californians having easy access to other Italian American restaurants that DO smother pasta in marinara, Olive Garden has to offer something more distinctive to justify charging a few dollars a plate more, but traditional Italian food from other regions, which may seem strange to many Americans, is not what would work for them.


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## ellen porter (Dec 16, 2011)

It seems to me boiling fresh pasta - and if so, for how long, is a matter of personal preference. I would not in lasagna because of it being baked, I'd want the noodles to have more substance than would be possible if they were boiled then baked.

"Italian" food in the USA would almost certainly be Americanized. There are so many regional differences within Italy. For instance, northern Italians don't use much tomato/marinara at all. Bologna is in central/northern Italy, so I think Simon's approach is traditional for his region.

And Americanized means different things in different places. For instance, Olive Gardens here in California have a lot on the menu that is not covered in marinara sauce. It seems strange to someone in Italy what they do have though. Thing is Olive Garden is a casual dining restaurant, it has to appeal to a massive number of those in its own region. With most Californians having easy access to other Italian American restaurants that DO smother pasta in marinara, Olive Garden has to offer something more distinctive to justify charging a few dollars a plate more, but traditional Italian food from other regions, which may seem strange to many Americans, is not what would work for them.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Commercially pasta sheet come 48 to the box frozen. 48 should do 2 hotel pans 2 inch. you DO NOT BOIL the sheets. One must note however that extra sauce must be used as the sheets since raw will absorb more liquid. I challenge  any customer to tell me the difference between. Frsh or frozen, even the pro's can't.


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## sparkie (Feb 12, 2011)

As with many doughs, pasta dough freezes exceptionally. I would have a very difficult time believing anyone who claims to be able to tell the difference. I typically will make enough sheets to last a few weeks(we only move about 2 pans in an average week). This way I can quickly make a pan whatever it may be needed.

Ed, where are you finding these commercial sheets? I've tried a few, but found them to be too thick, say 8-10 layers in a 2" pan. I like there to be 16, I would certainly be interested doing some tests with a pre made pasta that meets my specs.


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## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

Question: will the frozen pasta make a nice crust on the borders of the lasagna?


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## sparkie (Feb 12, 2011)

Yes, you will still get those wonderfully crispy edges. Freezing raw sheets of fresh pasta will have zero noticeable effect on the end result. At least none that I've noticed.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

U.S Foodservice had them. They had an italian name on the box. I believe same company made already breaded and 1/2 fried eggplant . I believe they were in upstate NY. Check Sysco or Gordon foods they may handle them also.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Yes, same as regular lasagna if at same oven temp.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Another thing we used to do.

Cook regular boxed lasagna. Cool then Spread individual pieces  on table ,roll the filling in each noode, put some sauce in 2 inch pan then rolled lasagna cover with more sauce, and cheese then  bake.  Each noodle is then  an individual portion, it is different and looks nice, and easy to serve. Each one can be frozen individually .


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## chefmasterjohn (Feb 28, 2012)

CinnamonGirl said:


> I've been making fresh pasta for over a year, but have never used it for lasagna or another baked Italian dish.
> 
> My question is do I need to boil the freshly made pasta before using it in the lasagna? I've searched the web and have seen; boiling is required and boiling is not required. Which is correct?
> 
> Thanks.


My mother always boiled the pasta first and then laid it out in the glass dish for the lasagna mix. Just her personal style I suppose.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Either works it your choice again if you dont cook first add xtra sauce to the lasagna as the noodles wll absorb it. For Manicotti or Cannaloni same applies.


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## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

The idea of individual lasagnas is a good one. No dispute over crusted edges.

An anecdote: once in Mestre (next Venezia) my wife and I were served a lasagna in a small restaurant. When the owner and cook, an Italian grandma, asked me "e buona?" i said  it was good, but not superb. Next she came back with a black truffle and a truffle grater, and… Mamma mía!

There you have: if your lasagna is not so good, just grate some truffles on it!


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## simone metalli (Mar 1, 2011)

Here i am

I have had some problems but now I am here another time...

I have seen that this discussion goes on and I want to thanks Curtis for the message

The essence of the question for me is: How they make in the place where the plate was born?

I think that the original recipe of a plate is the recipe that use in the place where the plate was born so I think that the real pizza is the pizza that they make in Napoli, that the Risotto alla MIlanese original is the Risotto that they make in Milan and I think that the original recipes of Lasagna or Tagliatelle or Ragu' are the recipes that we use in Bologna...

When I was in Canada last summer I ate a dish of spaghetti alla carbonara and I remember that it was horrible...instead I ate hamburgers, fried chicken, Louisiana Sausages and I remember that they were very good....the hamburgers in Canada or USA are best than in Italy because the original recipe is American...(it is only an exemple...)

For Curtis: if you have questions for me you can send me a mp


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## sparkie (Feb 12, 2011)

Simone! Is great to hear from you again. When I noticed that other people were again commenting in this thread, I was reminded of you. I am glad that you are back and hope that life is treating you well. I have a question for you regarding piada. It is one of my favorite foods. I will leave my question on the thread about piada that you started so many months ago...


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## sparkie (Feb 12, 2011)

I agree with you about considering the original dish. So many of us try to put a spin on a dish without renaming it, that after time the dish bears very little similarity to the original.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

When I was in Italy, never had 2 lasagnas that were the same . Every home every restaurant made  their own verson. Same thing with the gravy or tomato sauce , no 2 the same. They were all pretty good. Only thing I ate that I must say was not to good and did not live up to it's hype, was their verson of ice cream or Geleto. On more then one occassion it was loaded with ice crystals ,&  tasted artificial in flavor . I will take oue Hagen Daz store bought anyday.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Simone Metalli said:


> Here i am
> 
> I have had some problems but now I am here another time...
> 
> ...


Here we go again with my favorite topic: authenticity. Are yodu trying to tell us that we Americans should not eat Italian food unless we go to Italy? Does that mean that we should just stick with eating hamburgers then? Do you think it's possible that if a chef was born in Bologna and lived there all his life and he made lasagna every day of his life, do you then think it is possible for that chef to come to America and open a restaurant and serve that lasagna? You don't think these restaurants exist here? Or do you think he should serve burgers and hot dogs instead?

I hate to tell you this but along with all the wonderful food I ate in Italy there was also some bad food. Sorry for the bad news.


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## simone metalli (Mar 1, 2011)

I am italian and I dont' like all the italian food: for example I don't eat fish because I don't like it. I am the first to say that in some italian restaurant in Italy you can eat horryble!!! Some restaurant here are traps where you can spend a lot of money eating bad food.

I think only that if I want to learn to do american food is best to ask to an American, if I want to learn to cook chinese food is best to ask a chinese and if you want to learn to cook italian food is best to ask to an italian.

If I try to cook a typical american plate I will ask to an american and probably he will teach to me to cook the american way...probably I do not like it because I usually make it in the italian way...we agree....


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## kaneohegirlinaz (Apr 24, 2011)

For me, I feel that every ethnic group that has immigrated to America

has changed the way that they cook dishes that they would make "back in the old country".

There's America-Italian, American-Chinese, American-Thai and so on.

Even if you go to different parts of The United States, the same dish will be different.

I still struggle to convince my American-Italian husband that there is a _ginormous _difference,

but he still holds on to his Spaghetti with Meatballs on top as being a _true_ Italian dish.

Both my Mother and Sister go to Italy often

and both commented that my husband would not like the food there.

It's just different, and if everything were the same,

the world would be a very boring place.

MANGIAMO!!


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Simone Metalli said:


> I am italian and I dont' like all the italian food: for example I don't eat fish because I don't like it. I am the first to say that in some italian restaurant in Italy you can eat horryble!!! Some restaurant here are traps where you can spend a lot of money eating bad food.
> 
> I think only that if I want to learn to do american food is best to ask to an American, if I want to learn to cook chinese food is best to ask a chinese and if you want to learn to cook italian food is best to ask to an italian.
> 
> If I try to cook a typical american plate I will ask to an american and probably he will teach to me to cook the american way...probably I do not like it because I usually make it in the italian way...we agree....


I would not say that we agree. I also do not think that "fish" is an italian food. There are some people in US that are Italian but do not know what good or real Italian food is, so I would NOT ask them for help. Don't get me started, first of all they call tomato sauce "gravy." It does not take a genius to learn how to cook good Italian food. Jamie Oliver does it very well, I've mostly learned from him, also Mario Batali. After a while one begins to understand that cooking Italian is not so much following recipes, but following a philosophy.

I cook Greek food, but I am not an authority. If you asked me a question I would probably have a very good answer, but there is no such thing as right or wrong.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

kaneohegirlinaz said:


> *I still struggle to convince my American-Italian husband that there is a ginormous difference, *
> 
> *but he still holds on to his Spaghetti with Meatballs on top as being a true Italian dish. *
> 
> ...


Oh boy, I hope Siduri didn't overhear that lol! What you say is true, most American-Italians wouldn't know what to do with themselves if they found themselves in Italy.

The first time I went to Italy I was there visiting some friends. When they served the pasta course they scattered around trying to find me a spoon, "she's american, she needs a spoon with her pasta!" Of course I would never dream of using a spoon to twirl my noodles on but Italians are well aware of the stereotypes we have.


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

i have been using fresh pasta sheets in my restaurant's lasagne for years and i don't boil them first..they come IQF frozen from my food purveyor. I have also used eggroll skins at home for manicotti or lasagne without boiling. as other's suggest, you will need more sauce on the bottom and top as the fresh pasta absorbs more liquid. i live at high altitude(8500 ft.) so i need to add a lot of sauce.  personally my favorite way to make lasagne is to use eggplant for the sheets.....i would think that boiling the sheets would prove to be a big mess with handling ending only with a lot of frustration....

joey


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## kaneohegirlinaz (Apr 24, 2011)

Koukouvagia said:


> The first time I went to Italy I was there visiting some friends. When they served the pasta course they scattered around trying to find me a spoon, "she's american, she needs a spoon with her pasta!" Of course I would never dream of using a spoon to twirl my noodles on but Italians are well aware of the stereotypes we have.


OMG (OH MY GRAVY) !! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif

When we first moved here to the "mainland", we went to this _BIG_ chain Italian Place

(one we didn't have in Hawaii, but saw the TV commercial all the time and they brain washed me into wanting to go)

and they gave us these *HUGE* spoons with the pasta dishes.

I asked my husband what they were for, we didn't order soup!!


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## jims005 (Mar 31, 2012)

We have to visit your restaurant the next time my wife and I are in Italy. What is the name of your restaurant?


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## simone metalli (Mar 1, 2011)

My restaurant is "Antica Ricetta" (Old Recipe) and is in Bologna, Via Massarenti 354. I will be happy to stay with all of you. For example in October one of you will come to Bologna and we will meet at my restaurant...


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

And in France a meatball is sometimes classafied as a Quennele. It is formed of the end of a teaspoon into a boiling stock or sauce.


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## mkevenson (Mar 14, 2012)

kaneohegirlinaz said:


> OMG (OH MY GRAVY) !! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif
> 
> When we first moved here to the "mainland", we went to this _BIG_ chain Italian Place
> 
> ...


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

I think, like so many things, it's a regional thing.  I have actually seen Italians (by which i mean real italians, who were born in italy and have lived their lives here) use a spoon with spaghetti.  Don't we love to make anything at all be a snob issue.  If you want to stick to rigid traditions, neapolitan spaghetti was eaten with the hands.  come on, what counts is how it;s made, if it tastes good and if you like it!


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## mkevenson (Mar 14, 2012)

Siduri, thanks for not whacking my knuckles with that spoon./img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif I am trying to learn some table manners before my visit to your fair country this fall.

Mark


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## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

I guess it's not fine manners to use chopsticks and loudly sip the spaghettis.


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## eastshores (Oct 23, 2008)

Chefross said:


> Hence my tongue in cheek question.......Their commercials used to feature their (Chefs) being sent to Tuscany where there is supposedly an "Olive Garden" school to teach them how to cook their signature menu items. That commercial has since been removed from the air waves.


On reddit.com one of the chefs that was actually paid to go to Tuscany did a question and answer. Basically the whole thing is a PR farce so that they can "claim" that they have chefs that were trained in Italy. The guy also said that they were told what to say to people that inquire about the trips, and as long as they did that, they basically were paid to have an all expense paid vacation.. there was not more than about 30 minutes of training for the entire trip.


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

mkevenson said:


> Siduri, thanks for not whacking my knuckles with that spoon./img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif I am trying to learn some table manners before my visit to your fair country this fall.
> 
> Mark


Oops sorry. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif Didn't mean to whack anyone! The trick is, if there's a spoon, go ahead and use it! or ask for short pasta (penne, rigatoni, etc)! then there's no problem. But i've been in restaurants with people (100% italians) who asked for a spoon with the spaghetti.

There was a time when italian restaurants were cheap local places with no snob appeal at all. Now Italian is the big rage, and everyone wants to outdo everyone else in being authentically italian. The snob appeal has won over.

I guess you want not to feel you're doing things that will get the waiters to spit in your dish! What makes italians go nutty is asking for cheese on a fish dish (and if they bring cheese automatically, you got into a tourist place, and they're being condescending by bringing it- these are the places with the waiters outside trying to get you to come in). Another is asking for a cappuccino after dinner. Not worth asking for a cappuccino in a restaurant, anyway, because for the most part they won;'t have milk, or only UHT milk which tastes horrendous. Or a coffee or tea with a meal.

Why? I guess the food snobbery thing is very deep rooted. And italians have something even stronger, they think since their food is so good, it's the only way to eat. Unfortunately there's been a great decline in the last 20 years. The raw materials are not as good and there's less cooking going on at home since everyone works too much if they work at all.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Most  Italians say" their mom or grandmas mkes the best sauce and meatballs" . My question if they all make the best how can one be better then the others, and who is to judge??


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## sumar shahin (Mar 30, 2012)

I guess it could go either way. I've bought pasta that says to boil and pasta that says not to  boil. 

I guess it would depend on the sauce, cooking time, and other factors also.

Let us know how it turns out.


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## kaneohegirlinaz (Apr 24, 2011)

Siduri, I have wanted to ask you, as I start my dried pasta to boil for Lasagne that I’m outing together for tonight’s super, I have a box of Barilla and they claim that it is “Italy’s #1 brand of pasta”.  Is this true?


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

Hi kaneohe,

I don't know exactly what they mean by number 1.  It could mean the best, it could mean the one that sells the most.  I presume the second of the two.  It's certainly one of the most common brands, maybe also buitoni.  Other brands are considered better.  Frankly, i can't tell the difference.  They;re all flour and water.  The Italian ones, at least, are all durum wheat (i think by law).  I think i had one from a super-cheap discount store that were not that good, otherwise i don't really know the difference. 

One thing i can say is that for lasagne the purists here say you have to make your own.  I'm not much of a fan of lasagne anyway, so i couldn;t be bothered. And I think home made pasta is overrated!  The only reason i would bother to make my own pasta is to make my grandmother's tordelli (sort of large meat/cheese/spinach ravioli, very unusual outside of her area of tuscany near lucca) - those are worth the effort.  I once asked a pasta making store if they could make the ravioli with my own filling and, alas, they said no. 

I think for commercial pasta, any italian brand you can buy over there would be fine.


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

Siduri,

When making tordelli, do you use the frozen or fresh spinach ? Does it matter in the taste ? I have made it only with frozen. Curious ? May I know what spices you use ?

Petals.


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## kaneohegirlinaz (Apr 24, 2011)

Thank you for the input Siduri, I just took my HUGE pan out if the oven. 

My husband couldn't wait, so I usually make him a "bowl lasagne"

so he has a taste.  My dish is a little oddly shaped, so I use my kitchen shears

to trim the noodles and then gather up the scraps with some sauce and cheeses,

microwave it and he's as happy as a clam. 

But as for dried pasta, I normally look for anything from Italy,

funny enough, my husband can tell the difference. 

Also, the handmade vs. dried/boxed pastas. 

You made me think, I haven't made any Raviolis for at least a year. 

I have my mother in laws recipe, though I never met the woman,

I understand she was "the best", as all Momma's are.


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## fl italian (Mar 2, 2009)

Ciao Simone a Siduri!!!

I always use fresh pasta when making Lasagna and never boil it... I make it with semolina flour and eggs with a 1 egg to 100 gr of semolina and it always comes out on the mark the first time; no added water.

For years, I thought lasagna had ricotta cheese until I went to Italia and found out how truly light and wonderful it was and that beschamel was the reason! Today, I make it with nothing else; no ricotta and with a ragu as Simone suggests.

However, I had one in Civita Castellana that was an lasagna di carciofo... it was so light and wonderful... 7 layers thick and only an 4 cm high... delicioso!!! If anyone has the recipe for that one, I'd love it! I couldn't break that one down..

Simone.. next trip back to Italia.. I'm coming to eat at your place and play en la cucina!!! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/chef.gif


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## jims005 (Mar 31, 2012)

Yes, we have to taste the lasagna from your restaurant.


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## simone metalli (Mar 1, 2011)

Barilla is one of the most famous in Italy, probably one of the best and is made in Parma. A question: here in Italy 500 gr. of pasta (spaghetti, maccheroni, fusilli, penne) costs from 0,60 to 1,10 euro, in USA how much is the price?

Yes, I will wait for all of you to taste my lasagna...


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## kaneohegirlinaz (Apr 24, 2011)

Chef Simone Metalli, my lasagne was not very good tonight, I didn't add enough tomato sauce. 

As to your question in regards to the cost for the box of 454g (1 pound) Barilla (USA) lasagne noodles was

1.25 US dollars, that was on sale for me, the regular price is more.


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

Hi Petals.

I rarely use frozen spinach, but in these tordelli, which i'd make only on holidays when there is so much else to do, I'd usually use frozen.  I would use fresh if it were ricotta and spinach ones, since the spinach is a major component, but these have 3 kinds of meat that's browned with chopped onion, then the spinach, tons of parmigiano, salt, black pepper and nutmeg so the spinach flavor is not so dominant.  No other spices. 

My mother used to make them for christmas and lay them out on a cloth on the huge dining room table - hundreds of them - to dry. .  She'd freeze half of them.  We'd have one half for xmas, then the other half for easter.  It was an all-day production.  I stopped making them when my daughter stopped eating meat.  It was too much work to make two kinds, but i should make them again when it's not the holiday season.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

siduri said:


> And italians ..., they think since their food is so good, it's the only way to eat.


And greeks are the same unfortunately. A couple of years ago I made a pasta dish for some friends in Greece. They were appalled that I put parmesan cheese on my pasta while they opted for feta. They went on and on and on about how feta is "the best" and cheese from other countries are worthless. Everything to them is the best, local wine (nasty stuff) is the best. I appreciate local ingredients wherever I happen to be, but to discount all other nations in their entirety is just strange. One thing I dislike very much about Greece is that they do not have or import blueberries. As a nation they seem to be anti-blueberry.


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## kaneohegirlinaz (Apr 24, 2011)

Tonight we had leftover Lasagna (Lasagne) to my husbands' delight!

I have to admit I cheated

I use canned Hunt's Spaghetti Sauce

Now, in my defense, as I was putting it together to go into the oven I did tell my husband and he was watching what I was doing, he didn't have any problems with that (shows how much Men pay attention).  Then we both got thirsty and I said, "I guess that canned sauce had too much sodium that we're not use to".  

"WHAT?  He said, "That's not homemade?" 

Well, yes and no... Granted, I've been doing this for years, but with a different brand of canned Spaghetti Sauce...  I just can't see spending all that time on a beautiful Sauce from scratch and then putting into a Lasagne... Well, let me tell you something, that entire 13 inch by 9 inch pan is GONE!!  Along with two loaves of Italian bread, HA!!!  Magiamo!!!


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

Let me tell you, kaneohegirl, that jarred pasta sauces are very popular here too, judging from the number of them on the shelves!  Surprisingly lots of italians no longer bother to cook or even know how. 

I make a simple sauce and it takes little more time than opening a jarred one, but if it tastes good and you like it, who is to say anything.  The lasagne is finished, right?


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

I've used the oven ready noodles for lasagne and for some reason i like the texture of them vs the ones you have to boil first.  Fresh noodles are amazing for making canneloni and manicotti. 

This thread has me wanting a pasta machine for my birthday/mother's day!

Olive Garden is kind of gross, I have to admit.  Of everything they serve  I like the salad and breadsticks the best.  I've rarely had pasta in a restaurant that I've truly enjoyed.  There used to be this place on Yonge Street in TO called Pastaficio and it was one of the only places I had pasta that I truly enjoyed.  My husband and i would go there every Friday for dinner and that was where he proposed to me and we had our rehearsal dinner there, too.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

I used to use jarred sauce but now I make my own using crushed tomatoes, and when I have them fresh tomatoes.  My inlaws can't get over how fresh my sauce tastes when I bring a pasta dish to a family party compared to theirs and the secret is in the sauce. 

It seems that not alot of people cook from scratch anymore.. it's a shame too because the food just tastes so much better when it's made that way..


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Oh no leeniek, you've brought up the inflammatory words "from scratch" and now you'll get all kinds of debates and will be dared to make something from scratch without creating the world first lol.

It would make sense that if canned tomatoes taste good then so can canned tomato sauce taste good.  But it doesn't, and I haven't found any that I like.  So it's just simpler to to throw some canned tomatoes in a pot with olive oil, garlic, onions and herbs to create something tasty.


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## kaneohegirlinaz (Apr 24, 2011)

I brought my husband up to speed in regards to this thread on lasagne and pasta

this boy swears up one side and down the other that he's not a foodie..

he says to me, "I prefer that you make your own sauce with meatballs and sausage in it; then make pasta from scratch; then make lasagne and oh while you're at it you haven't made me any ravioli for a long time, how 'bout you get on the ball."

WHAT?!  ARE YOU KIDING ME?!

 Disclaimer: he was half joking, he loves to tease me, but he does love my cooking, he says I' so much like his Mother, AAAAHHHHH!!!  Now there's the compliment of the decade!!


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

kaneohegirlinaz said:


> I brought my husband up to speed in regards to this thread on lasagne and pasta
> 
> this boy swears up one side and down the other that he's not a foodie..
> 
> ...


If my husband compared me to his mother's I'd slap him.


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## kaneohegirlinaz (Apr 24, 2011)

American-Italian men think that their Mother's are goddess'

What is it called the step above goddess? /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smiles.gif


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

sorry bdl if i steal your thunder....but could it be 'green goddess'? /img/vbsmilies/smilies/cool.gif

joey


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Forgiven.

BDL


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## kaneohegirlinaz (Apr 24, 2011)

I think that I like GOLDEN GODDESS !! Yeah !!


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

kgirl,

Dea di Oro means 'goddess of gold' in italian.....just so you know

salud,

joey


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## kaneohegirlinaz (Apr 24, 2011)

I kinda like just the dea di (goddess), yeah, that's it !! ( you gotta love google translate !!)


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

kgirl,

the italian word for goddess is simply 'dea'...the di means 'of'... i defer to siduri, as she would know best....yes, google is the bomb!

joey


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

yes, jo,  "dea" is goddess, "di" means of, but if it's before a word beginning with a vowel (oro) it becomes "d'oro"   - dea d'oro - not sure it would be used in the same way as "golden goddess" might be used in english, though.


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## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

Insane phyillo dough lasagna with just ricotta, mozzarella and parmigiano is on the way.

If i fail you will never know.


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## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

OK. Not a failure, but not a success either. I used the butter painting technique between layers. Of course, the result was buttery. The lasagna (?) was beautifully crusty outside (the signature of phyillo dough), but pitiful squashy inside, where the phyillo dough almost disappeared and mixed up with the filing. A flavor and texture's unimpressive mess.

Photos are such liars:





How is it that the dough didn't burn on the borders? Ah… a little secret i learned doing a moist Gateaux au Chocolate: spray several times with water while in the oven.


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## joella (Sep 11, 2012)

My Nonna came from Grassano and I never remember her cooking a white sauce for pasta.  When I hear Ragu I think of a meatless "gravy".  I grew-up in an Italian-American neighborhood in NY and never ate a red sauce mixed with white.  Actually, the first time I was served that was in "Olive Garden".  We recently visited Italy with our family (all 14) and eat the most marvelous  meals.  Surrounded by history and culture, these are the ingredients that are missing when we try to duplicate them at home. But, it's fun trying and brings back beautiful memories. It has also inspired us to purchase the pasta attachment to our Kitchen Aid. Originally had the hand crank machine and found we used it rarely. With the KA I now make homemade pasta several times a month. Sometimes, I freeze a small portion of the dough for a quick meal for just the 2 of us.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Ricotta is often used for the white layers. Season it some garlic, salt, pepper, basil or oregano. Beating in an egg as well will help give it more structure.

I was looking through one of Lidia Bastianich's cookbooks last night and she made a small lasagna from one long sheet of fresh noodles. She'd drape it back and forth and fill in between each draping layer.


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## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

@phatch: The egg's really important. Good tip. Also to squeeze some water from the ricotta.

That noodles "lasagna" reminds me of the Greek _pasticio. _Rick Stain, in one of the Mediterranean Escapes episode, prepares a great _penne (ziti) pasticio._


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## gottagarnish (Jul 30, 2012)

How about soaking the noodles in hot tap water, the way you do store-bought, no-boil noodles.  I resisted these store-bought ones for years, but have used them recently and really liked them.  I've wondered if they actually aren't more like fresh-made ones, once they are soaked, than the typical store-bought ones.


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## pitufina73 (Mar 26, 2012)

wow wow lol i had too much fun reading this thread!

I live in FL, USA, born in Bolivia, my neighbors are from Sicily i think? not sure gotta ask them again, they are nice people and they cook all the time. so the last time i was on their house they invite me spaquetti with a homemade sauce, it was made with eggplant, zuchini, tomatoes, olive oil, and basil, and fresh made pasta, what a delicious difference!  my boyfriend is a ****** from Boston, he likes spaguetti with meatballs and prego sauce, which i hate it, i dont like those commercial spaquetti sauces at all, they are waaay acidic and greasy, yuck!

So i bought a pasta machine and learned how to do noodles and sauces, i love it! and yes i use egg and flour, no water needed. next try will be with the durum flour. 

Thumbs up everyone!


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## pitufina73 (Mar 26, 2012)

@Ordo, that lasagna kick a$$!  looks delicious!


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## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

Pitufina73 said:


> @Ordo, that lasagna kick a$$! looks delicious!


So, so. The filling came up tasteless and watery. Need to think about it. The philo crust was really good, tho.

Will check some Greek, Morocan and Indian recipes. I'm pretty sure i will reinvente Bastila.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

ordo said:


> So, so. The filling came up tasteless and watery. Need to think about it. The philo crust was really good, tho.
> 
> Will check some Greek, Morocan and Indian recipes. I'm pretty sure i will reinvente Bastila.


Greeks make this dish, they don't call it lasagna, it's called tiropita (cheesepie). From the picture I can't tell for sure but it looks like the phyllo doesn't stretch across the top of the dish does it? In a tiropita the phyllo lines the top and the bottom of the pie. The filling is made with a variety of cheeses, for you I would suggest feta/ricotta/parmesan in a 40/40/20 ratio. Add beaten egg to the mixture, no salt because the cheeses are quite salty, in fact you can sub out some of the feta for another milder cheese like cottage cheese or more ricotta but careful it doesn't get too mushy. The mixture should be a little dry, not wet and pasty. Stir in also fresh mint and parsley and proceed with the phyllo dough. I'm pretty sure you will like the result much better. If you're feel adventurous you can also add a bit of fig jam to the mix.


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## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

Koukouvagia said:


> Greeks make this dish, they don't call it lasagna, it's called tiropita (cheesepie). From the picture I can't tell for sure but it looks like the phyllo doesn't stretch across the top of the dish does it? In a tiropita the phyllo lines the top and the bottom of the pie. The filling is made with a variety of cheeses, for you I would suggest feta/ricotta/parmesan in a 40/40/20 ratio. Add beaten egg to the mixture, no salt because the cheeses are quite salty, in fact you can sub out some of the feta for another milder cheese like cottage cheese or more ricotta but careful it doesn't get too mushy. The mixture should be a little dry, not wet and pasty. Stir in also fresh mint and parsley and proceed with the phyllo dough. I'm pretty sure you will like the result much better. If you're feel adventurous you can also add a bit of fig jam to the mix.


_Tiropita_! It's exactly what i was trying to find. Thanks a lot!


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Hope it works out. I meant to say the mixture should be a little dry *and crumbly*, not wet and pasty. The fresh mint is not optional, trust me there are few combinations better than feta cheese and mint. Sometimes for a little zing I add some finely chopped scallion or chives.


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## mt2go (Jan 28, 2013)

You are missing out on great Italian restaurants started by Immigrants.  I am sorry you think all Italian restaurants are from American Italians.  But then I do not go to other countries and search for American food.  I go to learn of their cultures and bring home what I learn to expand my culinary knowledge.  If you ever come to NH I have many recommendations that will make you happy you tried them.


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## kglueckert (Apr 3, 2013)

Hello! Your comment was very helpful. I am looking to make lasagna this weekend. I want to make my own mozzarela and ricotta cheese. Do you have a recipe for either of those that I can use to make cheese at home?


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## jersey lane (Feb 25, 2013)

When I make fresh pasta it requires 20 to 30 seconds of cooking.  For Lasagna I hand roll  the pasta and cut the noodle as broad as I desire, no need for a machine if you have a pin.  It does not matter if my Ragu is hot or cold.  I bake the Lasagane to 175 F and its generally safe and pleasant to taste. Like regional stews and pates and such the Lasagne is in my taste better the next day.  I have not tried to make the Lasagne with a raw noodle, the poaching cooks the starches so I am happy with that.

However nothing is better than fresh spaghetti noodles ( again cooked for seconds not minutes) served in the Italian manner tossed in butter & a little olive oil, crushed black pepper, a little local Parmesan and crushed fresh garlic, toss all and have fun. Matthew.


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## chocolatediva (Dec 4, 2012)

ordo said:


> I guess it's not fine manners to use chopsticks and loudly sip the spaghettis.


ROFLMAO


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## berndy (Sep 18, 2010)

ordo said:


> I guess it's not fine manners to use chopsticks and loudly sip the spaghettis.


Its ok if you are in Korea


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## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

Sure. And you can burp in China as well. It's an homage to your hosts.

Not that i like it or do it. No loudly sip, no burps for me. But give me a pork rib and i will use my hands without shame even if i'm in a protocolar meeting.. 

How is this lasagna related?


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## damon otan (Feb 25, 2013)

should not a vegetarian lasagne have no pasta ?? correct me if im wrong but i never use pasta in vegetarian lasagne as it contains egg- in ttead i use finely sliced and grilled eggplant for the replacement of the sheeted pasta and oven roasted pumpkin and zucchini with carrot , onion and garlic sautee ! but when normal lasagne i do use more closer to what simone has said as my base and always pre boil my pasta. however great info people


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

damon otan said:


> should not a vegetarian lasagne have no pasta ?? correct me if im wrong but i never use pasta in vegetarian lasagne as it contains egg- in ttead i use finely sliced and grilled eggplant for the replacement of the sheeted pasta and oven roasted pumpkin and zucchini with carrot , onion and garlic sautee ! but when normal lasagne i do use more closer to what simone has said as my base and always pre boil my pasta. however great info people


Not all fresh pasta contains egg.


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## michele michele (Jan 25, 2014)

Simone,

I wonder if you have ever heard of "Lasagna Bianca". I was served this dish by a relative of mine in Cremona, in the province of Emilia Romagna, not far from Bologna. It was absolutely divine and had no hint of tomato! I remember being told how to make it, but it was decades ago and I don't remember. I know it had bechamel sauce and I think it had taleggio or robiola but I'm not sure. 

Thanks,

Michele Michele


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## kangaroochef (May 29, 2014)

After readIng this post yesterday, I went with cooking the pasta first and I am glad I did. The lasagna turned out terrific. I will now always cook the fresh pasta first.
Great forum topic. Cheers from Kangaroo Island South Australia


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## steve tphc (Sep 18, 2012)

Simone Metalli said:


> _"I live in Bologna, the city where Lasagne was born, and I have a restaurant. My aunt (she is 85) boiled the pasta, exactly the sfoglia made by eggs, flavour and salt. But the real lasagne don't have mushrooms, tomato or mozzarella. The real lasagne are made by ragu: you have to fried onion, celery and carrot with olive oil in small pieces, when it is fried you must put in the meat (preferably pork) and let fried. Then you have to add the tomato sauce and cooking for about three hours. You must put the sfoglia (pasta) on the bottom of the baking tin, to put ragu with besciamella ( a mixed made by butter, flavour and milk cooked up to a soft cream) and Parmigiano cheese and then add another layer until you have filled the baking tin._
> 
> _Is better to put on the last layer a piece of pasta to cover the head of the lasagne so they can't burn on the top._
> 
> ...


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## motherpasta (Jun 11, 2015)

For any pasta wich is better a pasta machine or the old way? does it make aquality
Difference? I like to make thick pasta that's soft when it comes to lasagna.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Depends what you're trying to do I think. You can achieve bigger sheets by hand which can be effective for some dishes. But it takes more practice and skill.

Watch these two videos:











Also, pasta shapes formed by hand, even if rolled by machine look and have a different texture than their commercial counterparts.

Hand rolled penne (not my photos) This is a square of pasta rolled around the small handle of a cooking spoon or similar.





  








B5-iyRzCAAAEGE9.jpg




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phatch


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strozzapreti-pastificiofiorillo.it-230.jpg




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phatch


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There are people who say they can taste/feel the differnce between hand rolled and machine rolled. I think a lot of it depends on the specific pasta application.


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## motherpasta (Jun 11, 2015)

Thank you so much this had a lot of info in it I have  had trouble with it from along time!

Also how do you start a thread I am a gnocchi fan so I want to start one about that. bye!!


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Click the Forums tab at the top of the page. You'll go to a screen that shows how the site is organized. You can then navigate down into those topical subsections. Near the top of each sub forum is a "Start a New Thread" button.  

So you should consider if your question is about equipment, general cooking, baking, etc. and start your thread  in the right section.


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## motherpasta (Jun 11, 2015)

Thanks And I followed You and sent you a private message!!!


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## roxy mae (Oct 12, 2015)

This is my boyfriends favourite dish and I want to cook it for his birthday however I can't eat cows milk or cheese. Can you recommend an alternative milk or does it need to be cows?

Thanks for your post as well


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## peter dodd (Apr 2, 2016)

Thanks Simone, I have a huge pot of Lamb Shank Ragu ready to make lasagne with fresh pasta, I will for sure be boiling the sheets, is it best to par boil then cool quick in cold water?


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