# Defrosting frozen fish or prawns in the sink.



## kirkunit

In my current workplace we are forbidden to defrost frozen fish or prawns under running water. Sometimes when it's extremely busy we run out and have to use the batch intended for the following day which on occassions is still frozen or semi frozen. The fish and prawns are IQF ( individually quick frozen ) so may only need 30 seconds under cold running water. However the policy with this company is that it should never under any circumstances be done.

The other chefs when making battered fish try to break off any ice and coat the fish in batter whilst still frozen, which often ends up with the batter not sticking to the fish because of the ice.

I had an order of prawn cocktail on but rather than serve frozen prawns I ran them under a cold tap to defrost quickly. The head chef saw me and gave me a verbal warning. I used to do it with the fish also but have since ceased doing it.

I knew it was company policy, but don't understand why. I have been a chef for 20 years and do understand that it is not the best of practices. Is it very bad to defrost under a tap? What I mean is from a health and hygiene point of view. Of course it better to allow the fish to naturally thaw in a fridge but sometimes I see them leaving the frozen fish out on the table next to the fryer to defrost quicker which to me is worse than running under water.


----------



## michaelga

Defrosting on the table is pretty terrible - much better under running water or changed water often - never let it come up to room temp.

Best course of action is to just let the servers know - you are now out of XYZ - none thawed.

Make sure the GM / Owner knows why you are out.  If they just accept it then you've done your duty.

Get them to change the par levels - whatever they think is best.  

Just don't stoop to their level and start thawing things on the table or trying to cook from frozen.

In situations like these the line cooks will not likely change anything - so best to keep your eyes/ears open for any other job openings in the area.

(ps - if the sink in question is in the dish-pit or a shared 'utility' sink then I'd agree, no food to be served there ever... way to easy to be contaminated.)

(pps - you're not a Chef unless you are in charge and then you wouldn't be having this problem? eh?)


----------



## kirkunit

I was defrosting the prawns in a container in a clean sink.

I am in the UK, here anybody who works in a kitchen is called a chef, commis chef, sous chef, head chef etc. Didn't know chef in USA / Canada mean someone in charge.

Is defrosting under running water in clean sink really that bad?


----------



## michaelga

kirkunit said:


> Is defrosting under running water in clean sink really that bad?


No - not at all, i've done it thousands of times... it is way better than thawing at room-temp or god forbid a microwave.

As long as no-one else is using that sink to dump mop-buckets out in or handling sanitizers and dirty dishes then it's probably the second best choice, the first being to not run out.


----------



## linecook854

I've always defrosted IQF shrimp (or prawns in England) under a running tap. As long as the tap water is cold I don't see why is would be "bad" from a food safety viewpoint. And to be honest, running under a tap doesn't really affect quality of shrimp either. We tested side by side a refrigerator defrosted shrimp next to a running tap defrosted shrimp and no one cold tell the difference texturally or flavor wise. But yes I do agree leaving seafood out in a warm environment to defrost is awful!


----------



## kaiquekuisine

Im so stubborn i would do it anyway regardless of whos in charge......

Its not only practical but simple and justifiable. 

Now battering frozen shrimp to fry , thats absurd -_- i would probaby start looking for another job , or just not follow those orders at all. That or refuse to work with seafood in the restaurant.


----------



## duckfat

MichaelGA said:


> (pps - you're not a Chef unless you are in charge and then you wouldn't be having this problem? eh?)


Even Corporate Executive Chefs answer to other managers. There's a lot of working Chef's out there who are under neath the GM or even the F&B in the management structure. Just because you have to follow guidelines that are some times completely inane doesn't mean you are not a Chef.

Dave


----------



## chefbuba

KaiqueKuisine said:


> Im so stubborn i would do it anyway regardless of whos in charge......
> Its not only practical but simple and justifiable.
> Now battering frozen shrimp to fry , thats absurd -_- i would probaby start looking for another job , or just not follow those orders at all. That or refuse to work with seafood in the restaurant.


That's the fast track to the back door. 
There's nothing wrong with thawing under running water, but the policy is there and must be followed regardless if you agree with it or not.
Whe your name is hanging over the front door and make the decisions, you can do as you like.


----------



## rdm magic

I think the thing you have to do is stop improvising. If the managers don't want you to do it the right, wrong way, then just tell them when you run out.

Don't make your life harder because of their policies, or if you do, don't complain about it.


----------



## chefedb

Nothing wrong with under  running water just make sure running water goes into a pan large enough to keep all the fish or shrimp covered.under the water . Overnight fridge is better though


----------



## kaiquekuisine

chefbuba said:


> That's the fast track to the back door.
> There's nothing wrong with thawing under running water, but the policy is there and must be followed regardless if you agree with it or not.
> Whe your name is hanging over the front door and make the decisions, you can do as you like.


I understand i would be sent home trust me.

But if i was in a restaurant battering frozen fish ( with visible ice on them ) for meals , then i assume my opinion on this topic is useless , so might as well take my leave.


----------



## bughut

I there's no contingency plan for a sudden rush on prawns, then i guess they're struck from the menu.  It might be an idea to speak to head chef out with service, to ask if he does in fact have a contingency plan and leave it at that (just as a by-the-way)...It would get him re-thinking at the very least.


----------



## chefbrewer

In my experiance prawns are like sponges. If you run the under water they just soak up the water and taste of nothing after that. They should be probably thawed out over night in a fridge, spread out in a tray on top of clothes which will soak up the defrosting ice!


----------



## kaiquekuisine

bughut said:


> I there's no contingency plan for a sudden rush on prawns, then i guess they're struck from the menu. It might be an idea to speak to head chef out with service, to ask if he does in fact have a contingency plan and leave it at that (just as a by-the-way)...It would get him re-thinking at the very least.


Yep i liked this idea.


----------



## kaiquekuisine

chefbrewer said:


> In my experiance prawns are like sponges. If you run the under water they just soak up the water and taste of nothing after that. They should be probably thawed out over night in a fridge, spread out in a tray on top of clothes which will soak up the defrosting ice!


Some times in the kitchen you just have to think _~its not the ideal , but its whats possible~ _

If i had 7 orders of shrimp and they werent completely thawed out , then i guess under the water they go ( obviously its not the ideal ) but running them under some cold water , in a clean and private sink on your station is better then going and beg the clients to change their minds.


----------



## chefbrewer

KaiqueKuisine said:


> Some times in the kitchen you just have to think
> _~its not the ideal , but its whats possible~ _
> 
> If i had 7 orders of shrimp and they werent completely thawed out , then i guess under the water they go ( obviously its not the ideal ) but running them under some cold water , in a clean and private sink on your station is better then going and beg the clients to change their minds.


Yes but you should be aware of how many portions you have left, if it comes down to it, when I have five portions of something, I inform the front of house and when they have gone, that's that!

If it came to scenario that you mentioned I would rather the front of house go to the customer, to get them to change their order and enjoy what they get served rather than being served water soaked tasteless shrimp/prawns!


----------



## petemccracken

chefbrewer said:


> .... being served water soaked tasteless shrimp/prawns!


IMHO, there is no valid excuse for serving _water soaked anything!_

If the kitchen is unable to manage frozen foodstuffs to meet demand and refuses to 86 a menu item when out, simply place the IQF frozen product in a Zip-Lok or similar, evacuate as much air as possible, and place the sealed bag under slow running tap water in the PREP sink.

Shrimp will defrost in 4-10 minutes, with no loss of flavor nor any waterlogging.

Oh, you don't have a Zip-Lok? Time for a _Kitchen logistics_ meeting to cover anticipation of orders, tactics to insure enough available product, and a review of work-arounds when someone screws up!


----------



## kaiquekuisine

PeteMcCracken said:


> IMHO, there is no valid excuse for serving _water soaked anything!_
> 
> If the kitchen is unable to manage frozen foodstuffs to meet demand and refuses to 86 a menu item when out, simply place the IQF frozen product in a Zip-Lok or similar, evacuate as much air as possible, and place the sealed bag under slow running tap water in the PREP sink.
> 
> Shrimp will defrost in 4-10 minutes, with no loss of flavor nor any waterlogging.
> 
> Oh, you don't have a Zip-Lok? Time for a _Kitchen logistics_ meeting to cover anticipation of orders, tactics to insure enough available product, and a review of work-arounds when someone screws up!


Once again agreed with Petes idea <_<.

Doable , practical and everyone is happy.


----------



## davehriver

I have heard and read several times that the latest science has found that thawing small pieces of meat, 1 pound or less, is safest done in hot tap water either in the sink or a bowl.  I have bee doing this for the last couple years.  It is fast and safe.


----------



## kostendorf

i dont serve much prawns on my menu so i take iqf prawns and run worm water on them anthey thaw quick per order.  if you know how Long it takes the amount of prawns to thaw and take them out as soon as you can work with them i have had no Problems with Quality and bacteria


----------



## geo87

IMO Anybody that defrosts any kind of protein under running water is kidding themselves if they think its okay. And HOT water?!? Even worse. Surely somewhere inside you is a little voice...your inner chef conscience saying this is not right, sadly dodgeyness prevails in too many chefs . Don't do it! Here is why I personally believe its not okay and I'm not an expert but I believe I'm right on this one. 
The protein becomes water logged, you also wash away a lot of the flavour. The quality absolutely deteriorates and if you think it doesn't, it does! mabie you just can't tell. For sponge like proteins like scallops and prawns you will not be able to get good caramelisation in the pan as they are waterlogged. The water will leak out, and you will stew them. Ugh. you will also never get crispy skin on waterlogged fish.
Any decent high end restaurant chef would either physically hurt or fire someone for this. Softer ones perhaps would give looks of disgust, before informing you the error of your ways.
I agree with everyone that said if you run out you run out. Increase par levels, get more organised. And if your defrosting prawns to Order because you don't sell many... Uhh just take them off the menu! 
Sorry this is a bit of a rant but I feel strongly about this  

Ill end with this, if ( insert michelin star chefs name you respect) walked into your kitchen and was watching your every move, would you do it? No? Then don't do it


----------



## kingfarvito

I would agree that defrosting anything under water is poor form, use a ziploc if you must but I would even try to avoid that.


----------



## bughut

chefbrewer said:


> Yes but you should be aware of how many portions you have left, if it comes down to it, when I have five portions of something, I inform the front of house and when they have gone, that's that!
> 
> If it came to scenario that you mentioned I would rather the front of house go to the customer, to get them to change their order and enjoy what they get served rather than being served water soaked tasteless shrimp/prawns!


----------



## bughut

ABSOLUTELY... If you ran out of lamb chops, you'd strike them from the menu...Soups gone, It's gone. Why do folk feel the need to suddenly defrost prawns. Why is it so hard to say "no, prawns are finished". Weirdly, It's often the way. In my experience its the catering manager who, with no training, puts pressure on the kitchen to come up with the goods.


----------



## sparkys44

During my federal food safety certification, I was instructed that if the "product" is contained within a sealed package, i.e. a zip lock storage bag, then it is more than acceptable to defrost under running cold water. If done in a proper "clean sink" and the water does not come in contact with the food product during defrosting. I work doing public demonstrations of many food products that are frozen, salmon fillets, uncooked shrimp, etc., and it is our corporate instructions to defrost the product in this manor.


----------



## chef m sushi

Thawing seafood under running water isn't safe due to water temp usually being too high for food safety, especially true during summer (and the Southern US). Read your SERVSAFE guidelines for proper thawing. Best practice is in the fridge.


----------



## juff

A very old thread I know but it came up in my searches for information..

The discussion so far centers arounds the merits of derfrosting prawns in water.. the topic I know but seen from managements point of view I'm having to consider the same issue - but from a water conservation point of view,

Our pub is not connected to the main sewer so we have a processing plant for the drains - the sheer volume of water is causing unprocessed sewage to escape : (

So  I'm having to look for options to reduce the water output

It's getting to the point I'll also have to ban defrosting prawns by running water

Of course now we have water meters (in the UK : ) the reasons might also involve the cost of water..


----------



## chefbuba

Plan accordingly, defrost in the fridge.


----------



## chefshanes

sales forecasting + mise en place = simple

failure to plan is a plan to fail, and just makes everyones job a right pain in the @'s, it comes back to good management practices to facilitate the business needs.


----------



## faridahantab

Very interesting thank you

Farid Ahantab


----------

