# Does anybody cook real food anymore?



## oahuamateurchef (Nov 23, 2006)

Or do we all add a can of cream of condensed mushroom chemical crap to our food and watch our children twitch?


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

I tend to cook from scratch. I don't enjoy twitching children. I'm lucky enough to have the time at home to do that (work from home) most days.

But a lot of people don't have the time to do it. I think its much cheaper doing it from scratch but yeah, it takes time, which lots of people don't have. What is important in that case is looking at the ingredients on the packaging so it is nutritional and as good as you can get.


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## salliem (Nov 3, 2006)

I prefer it that way..I hate all the additives they put in food...cooking from scratch tastes so much better and better for you. :roll:


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

I cook almost everything from scratch and NEVER use those awful salt-laden and chemically-enhanced soups - PARTICULARLY the condensed ones!


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## deltadoc (Aug 15, 2004)

I never buy processed foods. Just the basics from the organic food store.

I usually cook large batches of food using the weekend to do batches for canning, or on Sunday for a large batch of food to make up mine and the wife's lunches for the week at work.

I will not allow anything like preservatives, or especially high fructose corn syrup near my palate!

We also drink Fiji water, exclusively, and I use a top-of-the-line Everpure water filter to filter water for ice cubes and for cooking.

THe regular tap water, while providing some of the the "best" water in the country here in Minnesota, is used for washing (dishes, me, the wife, the clothes) or providing water for the lawn, garden or the cat.

doc


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## d.c. (Nov 2, 2008)

I cook everything from scratch. 

On weekends I make 1-2 main entrees. I freeze a few portions and refrigerate the others. During the week, I either dine on the refrigerated entrees or pull frozen ones and defrost them for a bit of variety. It's no problem to bake a potato, steam some rice, boil some pasta, or cook up a few veggies on the side. 

I run my culinary arts department the same way. My predecessor taught students how to bake using packaged mixes. Soups and sauces were also from packaged mixes. Pizza was made using frozen pre-made crusts and canned sauce. Frozen burger patties were grilled. French fries were precut and blanched. 

Today, nearly everything we produce for sale in our attached restaurant is made from scratch. We make our own pizza dough, pie crusts, and cakes. We make our butter cream frosting, soups, gravies, and sauces. We handform our burgers using fresh ground beef to make patty melts. Tomorrow we're making southern pan fried chicken and we won't be deep frying frozen breaded chicken to pass off as "homemade." Students will dredge and pan fry chicken drumsticks which we'll serve up with homemade mac and cheese. 

I love this job!


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Scratch here as well.


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## norma (Jun 4, 2006)

Only real food, from scratch. My two sons also try cooking from scratch as much as possible. Even if it means eating the same food for two or three days. Now that they are living away from home, they praise when they cook and have leftover for at least the next day. 
I remember the days when they used to complain to me about eating leftovers.  

By the way, I have a question: 
When I bake bread, even the simple ones made out of water, flour, salt and yeast we feel that it keeps us sustained.
When we buy them at the supermarket, doesn't matter if it is from the bakery or the ones from the shelf, we get hungry sooner.
Can anyone explain that phenomenon to me? Why my simple bread has consistency and keep us nourished and their ones not? Do they use a different flour, do they somehow aerate their dough? Couldn't they make a more honest bread? They charge so much...

Thanks,
Norma


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

I would be willing to be any amount of money that every single person on this forum has some kind of processed food in the pantry.


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## wheresthegrub (Oct 28, 2008)

Wifey and I cook from scratch 99% of the time. Raising three little ones, it's just that way. I have three cans of chef boy r dee on the top cabinet. My oldest was always bugging me to have some, I always say nah. One day, I opened a can and let him try it. ::grin:: guess what happened. He won't ask for that stuff anymore.

Interestingly, my 4 year old niece who lives exclusively on processed and fast foods snubs our homecooking.


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## bryanj (Jun 20, 2008)

As terrible as it is, I agree, and am guilty of the same. I just ate a tv dinner out of the microwave...

I hang my head in shame.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

I won't pretend that I cook everything from scratch. I love cooking but there are certain things I simply cannot make myself. These include 

butter 
milk
cheese
yoghurt and other dairy products
canned tomatoes
canned tuna
frozen peas
dry pasta
bread 
frozen puff pastry and phyllo
dried spices
broth occasionally
mayonnaise
mustard
sausage and cured meats
pickles
dried fruits

I could go on... I use these items to assemble dishes and I'm willing to bet many others do too. "Cooking from scratch" is a phrase that I don't believe applies to anyone, I could be wrong though but you'd have to churn your own butter in order to argue with me.

For what it's worth we do make our own wine.


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

Im not talking about TV dinners, I mean canned tomato, canned beans, canned broths and even just everyday items like milk, yes even soy, butter and cheese has to be processed.


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## wheresthegrub (Oct 28, 2008)

"cooking from scratch" today has a totally different meaning than it did 100 years ago, when you had to grow your own or trade with locals.

I like this post, cause it made me think, "what is cooking from scratch today?" The way I see it now is, Yes, I have a cupboard full of items that I did not grow or raise, but I try to buy the "purest" form of the item possible and use that to make meals for the family.

Cooking from scratch to me means using the closest to fresh or pure as possible to make a meal. As opposed to buying a pre-made meal or going out and having someone prepare a meal for you.

We do not eat out often, as I mentioned in other posts, I have seen behind the scenes of too many commercial kitchens and get grossed out with these memories. 
:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::r oll:


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Yes. Ketchup, mayo mustard, pasta and asian noodles, canned fruits, vegetables, beans. My rice is white, not brown. 

But that's not what we usually speak of when we say processed food.

I do have some frozen potstickers. They're certainly processed food


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

I understand that but some ppl believe that canned foods are the devils work and everyone is out to poison them with preservatives unless they buy it at WHole Foods or someplace similar. What most ppl fail to realize is that Whole Foods buys them same products as your neighborhood market they just use different names for the preservatives. Its generally made in the same plant in the same equipment....


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## amazingrace (Jul 28, 2006)

*Guilty as charged!!!* :lips: And I refuse to make excuses, or become defensive about it.


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## oldschool1982 (Jun 27, 2006)

We do what we can when we can. 

In general we don't go out to eat very often any longer, just too danged expensive for what you get and we're often disappointed when we do and that's even higher on the scale of processed. Probably once a month now?

So basically, we eat almost every meal with food cooked at home. That's not to say that we don't have some processed items on hand for convenience and ease of use. If I really think about it, my Grandmother, who if was still alive would be over 100 and was brought up in a time where everything was made at home. Yet I can't remember ever going over to visit and not seeing some sort of store bought processed item. Nothing wrong with occasional use of the stuff. Sometimes ya just can't avoid it.

IMHPO, I believe you start having issues or health concerns when you subject your body to constant and relentless bombardment of processed foods on a regular basis. Meaning that not a meal goes by where you don't have some or all of it prepared with those foods. Face it, if you drink water, coffee, booze.... or just about anything for that fact and breathe air or leave the protection of your hermedically sealed home, you're going to come accross something that is capable of doing some harm to your body or cause some form of health concerns in the long run. :beer:


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

No way am I giving up my Campbell's chicken noodle and tomato soup :lol: holdovers from childhood. Otherwise I tend to cook from scratch or use foods that I canned/froze. And I bet everyone has some processed foods, minor little things like olives, ketchup, salad dressings etc.


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## salliem (Nov 3, 2006)

I also have some canned food products in my cabinets,but I might add my husband is the one who usually eats it, I like nothing more than cooking fresh foods, it is better for me and I cannot tolerate all the salt and whatnot that comes with canned foods..my husband also thinks that HOT POCKETS are good for you.


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## luvpie (Jun 20, 2007)

this is a good thread that I just stumbled on.
has anyone seen the tv show hosted by mike huckabee?
he had an audience member ask a question of him on his weight loss.
his comment was a good one in that he commented on foods of 100 years ago.
something like, if it was food a hundred years ago, that's what I try to eat.
if it wasn't, it's a food product. I gave that thought and decided it was very true.
didn't mean to get off subject.
I would be not truth telling if I said I have nothing processed.
but wish is wasn't necessary. I don't see a way around it.
I am pretty sure that even flour is processed ie. bleached:smoking:


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

mainly locally grown during the 9 month season....there's a smattering of shtuff in my kitchens.

Trader Joe's canned beans, lentils, precooked brown rice....when I just don't wanna cook any more

Canned green curry

Jams, chutneys, oyster and hoisin sauces......along side my jams

There's a few frozen Wolfgang Puck pizzas next to the butchered local ham...

When you cook for a living many times you just don't want to eat the food you've been making.....if you read back through the archives 8+ years ago alot of the chefs would say they eat cold cereal after they get off, or something "no brainer". If I get out of an event in time, I'll go eat out....


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## lance folicle (Nov 1, 2008)

That's not quite true. For example, commercial canned beans, such as garbanzos, are often loaded with salt, many are produced in China. WF organic garbanzos have much, much lower salt and are produced in the USA. Read the labels - making broad, blanket statements such as this one is misleading.

Lance


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## lance folicle (Nov 1, 2008)

He's paraphrasing this Michael Pollan Article.

Lance


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

It depends on the time I have, which is a precious commodity, (especially this time of year) and who I'm cooking for.
If I'm cooking for you, I'm going to do as much scratch cooking as possible.
If it's for my family, still the same, but realisticallyI will cut a few corners if needed due to time contraints.
I'm not making pasta for our pasta marinara.

If I just need something to fill my own void, I'm not above eating a hot pocket or whatever.

Always funny when you bump into a fellow chef at the supermarket.
Each trying to ignore the convenience items in our carts.

I don't make my own butter, wine or beer, or grind my own beef scraps for burgers.
I commend those who have the time for this, but don't apologize even a little bit that I am unable to do so.


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Not to stick up for Chef How but last April Whole Foods had a recall in a few states for meat contaminated with E_Coli. Difference between theirs and other markets is that you paid a premium price for their contaminated meat. Their meat is processed in same USDA supposed inspected plants as everyone else...:look:


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## lance folicle (Nov 1, 2008)

I understand, however, is said _"not quite"_ true and that _broad statements_ (such as the one chef made) can be misleading. There are examples on both sides of the argument.

Lance


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

Lance, I don't want anyone to think I was making a blanket statement, but it drives me crazy when ppl assume that because it comes from Whole Foods it's better for you. Salt isn't everything and I can use some salts that have 60% less sodium than kosher and are all natural but because they are a specific type of sea salt WF won't allow it because it has specific chemical compounds naturally and they are not allowed. WF is not the end all be all of food and ppl could do much better. That's my point.


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## penguin (Aug 30, 2008)

I agree with this discription of what cooking from scratch means today. 

I use processed items that I cannot make myself that are low in additives such as milk, butter, cheese, dried pasta, canned beans, mayo, ketchup, etc. but everything that I can make from scratch I do. I have a terrible reaction to all the flavor enhancers that are in packaged foods so cooking from scratch is a matter of survivial for me. 

I love the lifesyle- it's very time consuming but our food tastes amazing.


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## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

It might be safe to say that the majority of folks who actively post on these forums tend towards making food as real as it gets. But probably not each and every meal of each and every day. One of the appetizers I'm planning for Thanksgiving dinner this year is deviled eggs. And I'll be whisking up a batch of fresh mayo for those. But when my wife makes a sandwich some mornings to take to work, she reaches for the jar of store bought stuff in the fridge. Ketchup is actually fairly easy to make, I never do. The only use it sees in our household is as a base for barbeque sauce. But I know that if I did take the time to make it from scratch, my sauce would be better.

Some processed foods are different than others. A package of Colissimo's Tuscan red wine sausage links no doubt includes some of the same ingredients as a can of Spam, both processed foods, but worlds apart. I love Colissimos, eat it often, but I only buy a can of Spam every 10 - 15 years just to remind me how bad some store-bought food can be. Before any of you closet Spam lovers assail me, I'll admit that I have a love of mac and cheese from a box. And usually the cheapest, generic brand rather than any national name brand. A culinary sin of high degree, I know, and I can and do make much better cheese and pasta products using 'real' ingredients. But every now and then...

The other night I made some soup. It took longer than opening a can and pushing some buttons on the microwave, but not really much longer. Beef broth, sliced fresh mushrooms, some thinly sliced beef sirloin and a bit of pickled sushi ginger, a splash of ponzu sauce, topped with chopped green onion. Very tasty, simple and probably one of the healthier things I've eaten over the last week.

But we all make daily decisions based on convenience, cost, time available and such. And what looks good in the market that day. Sometimes carefuly crafted real food, sometimes just following the instructions on the package.

Gee, speaking of real food, I've got a pot of turkey stock I need to go check.

mjb.


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## greyeaglem (Apr 17, 2006)

This touches on something that's been on my mind lately. I recently watched an episode of Kitchen nightmares and Ramsey was reaming the guy about his Italian wedding soup. said it was a muddle of vegtables with gray meatballs, etc. and had a fit because it was two days old. This is the same guy that I had never heard of until he was hawking.... Cambell's Italian Wedding soup! I think I had too much to drink- I'm seeing double standard. On another show he reamed a guy for having frozen broccoli. Everybody's on the buy fresh, buy local bandwagon lately, but guess what, broccoli doesn't grow in Minnesota in the middle of winter and neither do tomatoes, so our ancestor's used to (sit down for this) can and freeze the stuff from their gardens. Horrors! They ate canned and frozen food, the Cretins. People call me all the time and ask if my fish is fresh, and when I say no, it's frozen, they get their noses all out of joint. What do they think, I catch swordfish in the Mississippi? Even if I could, I can't sell it to the public in the restaurant. Can't I fly it in? Sure. Let me get the corporate helicopter and fly all over the country. You want to pay $100 a plate for it? No? Then get real. So do I buy frozen MN peas from Birdseye or fresh peas from CA? Which is politically correct in the culinary world? I'm getting a little tired of the whole thing. you can't have it both ways, fresh and local except in the summer. And then you pay through the nose for it and I would like to know why. You're supposed to be saving on transportation, so why does the local stuff (that if I don't buy goes to the local cannery) cost more?


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## neeps (Nov 22, 2008)

Grey, I think it is the danger of a little knowledge, you know, just enough to get in trouble. People are watching the food network, celebrity chefs are in, and your average Joe is becoming a bit more culinary arts conscious, but that does not mean everyone understands the full picture. I've got a coworker who's wife does all the cooking for him, but he will go on about "the importance of layering the flavors when cooking" 

Reminds me, I was once eating at Applebee's with my husband and we overheard the lady at the table next to us going on and on about the celebrity chefs on the network. Her 11.99$ steak dinner arrives, she inspects it, calls over the waitress, and, I kid you not, gives her a full review of the meal, Iron Chef judge style. 

"I would have wanted the steak a bit more seared on the outside, but more red on the inside... I'm not really getting the garlic in the garlic asperagus...etc"

Gees, lady, it's a 11.99$ steak dinner at Applebees! For crying out loud!


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

Neeps, it may only be an $11.99 steak at Applebee's but Tyler Florence developed it, or at least thats what they want you to think. You know he is a chef on the Food Network......


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## oldschool1982 (Jun 27, 2006)

It's so ironic you mention this 'shroom. Big box of Raisin Bran and a gallon of skim were regulars on the grocery list. Hehehe 

When I didn't even want to put together something as simple as a bowl of cereal......Every now and then Taco He!! would be the stop of choice. That is if and when I didn't make it into "other areas" of the City for a taste challenge with the Chef of the place I visited. Gawd those were the days!!!!!


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## oldschool1982 (Jun 27, 2006)

I couldn't take a single thing out of the quote grey. What a dose of common sense!!!!!! We developed these things to feed ourselves and now it's become the work of the "Devil". I commented once and things were refereed back to a book.... " Omnivores Dilemma". Yes it certainly is. bit then again anything to make a million!!!!!

I'm all for "fresh", "seasonal" "home-made" or "minimally processed" but????????

Where do you draw the Line!?!?!????


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## oldschool1982 (Jun 27, 2006)

Neeps, it's a funny thing. I always tell folks that I may not know much about allot of things but I know enough to get me into a world of trouble with just about everything.....Hehehe:lol:

P.S. Sorry for the triple reply folks. Just couldn't get the hand/eye co-ordination to manage a compiled reply. Between you, me and the walls..... The Saki made me do it.


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## docsmith (Aug 4, 2008)

I think there are dangerously high levels of smug in this thread :lol:

First, the world can't afford everyone to be eating 'real' food. You need those chemicals etc to keep enough food on hand for the millions and billions of people out there. 

But I will happily admit I don't make everything from scratch nor does my wife, though we try when we have time and feel its important. 

Today I decided to make an on the fly meal for my wife, I had no plan, I'm not a chef, and I had about 15 mins to shop while she was in the car with the kids.

We did happen to be at Whole Foods so thats a bit cliche 

Anyways for a starter (because she was starving).

1 french baguette - (I didn't make it)
1 premade spinach artichoke dip spread
1 small wedge of bree (I didn't make it either)

Veggie.

1 Zucchini sauteed (ok fresh here)
1 balsamic vinegar creme (premade and most likely chemicaled) 

Main.

1 - Premade stuffed pork rolled up thingy 
1 - cranberry honey mustard, premade, contained some chemicals.

Dessert 

1 mango, caramelized
1 container of no fat vanilla yogurt (premade of course).

I kept portions small to keep in our diets and it was a very successful meal. One that would have been impossible without a few premade things like the honey mustard, the artichoke dip, or the preprepped pork. 

Now I had time for it, and a budget to afford it. Now imagine a mother of four who works full time, has a small budget, is not a trained chef, never worked in a kitchen, and needs to get food on the plate. 

For thanksgiving dinner we had the usual greenbean and mushroom soup cassarol, and it was very good.

The day before I had natchos, out of a can, the BIG can from Sams Club, I'm not sure what it contained but it was pretty good 

I do think we have gotten too wasteful with microwave this and frozen that, and often it is more expensive on top of making it fresh, but there are limits.


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## d.c. (Nov 2, 2008)

No smugness was intended from my perspective.

Since I'm a bachelor, I have the time and inclination to make my meals the way they were made when I was a child. I understand that things might be different if I had a family as processed foods can be wonderfully convenient ... but since it's just me, I see no reason why I shouldn't make food the way I'd like.

My father grew up poor. His family was so impoverished that they couldn't even afford an ice box in the days before refrigerators were invented. Part of his daily chores were to buy fresh produce and fish. From the age of ten to the time he went to college, he made the family dinner as both of my grandparents had to work long hours.

My mother came from a Chinese restaurant family where everything (including the noodles and _bao_) were made from scratch. _If you want to talk fresh, you should visit Chinese restaurants in Oakland, California. Animal rights activitists periodically get upset with the Chinese because many of them raise or buy live crustaceans, fish, and poultry. _:lips:

My father became a doctor specializing in tropical medicine. Since his research took him overseas, I grew up in Ghana, Thailand, and El Salvador.

Unlike other Americans, I didn't grow up with canned Chef Boyardee, Kraft mac and cheese, PBJs or Campbell's soups. I didn't even have access to a McDonalds or a KFC. Given where we lived and given the backgrounds of my parents, we didn't use processed foods. Not only was the concept of processed food alien to the way my parents grew up, but name brand products like Chef Boyardee and Campbells simply weren't available in many third world countries back in the 60's.

I grew up thinking that fresh meat came from a butcher, fish came from a fish monger, and produce came from a farmers' market.

This is not to say that I never ate processed foods as a child. In Thailand, we once tried some local ice cream but since Thailand didn't have a dairy industry, the taste and texture of _im kati soht_s is quite different from anything you'd find in the states. In Thaliand, the fat in "ice cream" comes from coconut flesh soaked in water.

Lacking access to products like Coca-cola, we occassionally drank Tropi-Cola in El Salvador or Green Spot in Thailand. Since my father was a doctor, he didn't approve of his children drinking soda, so the only time we ever had a carbonated beverages was when we went out for lunch or dinner.

At home we had bottled water and since we lived in tropical countries, we always had plenty of fresh made juice ... pineapple ... guava ... mango etc.

The sole processed food item that my father insisted his children use was instant milk. Since dairy cattle were largely unknown in the countries we lived in, my father made us drink this noxious product. To this day, I can't see a glass of milk without shuddering! Whenever we went stateside on vacation, my sister and I would beg our parents to buy chocolate powdered mixes to lug back overseas. Adding chocolate powder to the instant milk made the milk somewhat more bearable ... but we never brought back more than one container and that one container never lasted for very long.


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## docsmith (Aug 4, 2008)

First I was being a bit melodramatic in my smug line, really only the OP seems to have a major issue, everyone else seems to understand there are reasons for not making everything from scratch.

Secondly, I grew up in Americas Dairy land, and for a brief period of time my mother used powdered milk for some god awful reason. I don't think it was a money issue, I'm sure she read in some 70's publication that it was better for you in some way, but I still remember it and I was maybe 5 years old. It was that awful.

I should be thankful, normally you don't remember much of anything from your early childhood, but that awful instant milk jarred a few breakfasts into permanent storage.


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## greyeaglem (Apr 17, 2006)

D.C.,We didn't mean to pick on you. I took the thread off subject somewhat and I believe we were targeting the smugness of the industry in general, not you specifically. For instance, there are some who will look down their noses if you call for canned tomatoes in a chili recipe because they believe if you don't start from fresh, it's somehow lacking. However, I will take a quart jar of my mother's home canned tomatoes from her garden over any "organic vine ripened, stem on" tomatoes I can buy. Reminds me of an episode of Top Chef where the contestants picked an inferior salmon because it was fresh over a better grade that was frozen. Everybody who ate it complained. They showed a clip of the contestants saying, "Well, it was obvious to pick that one, it was fresh, the better one was frozen, and this was fresh." They were truly baffled. Think of it as a fresh dog turd as compared to a frozen whatever. Sure, it's fresh, but it's still a dog turd. I think sometimes we get caught up in the hype and just don't think. That's all. No offense intended, and we weren't picking on you. I'm always a little on the defensive anyway because although I have access to fresh cranberries, I like the jellied ones out of the can, and I believe, as do most people in the midwest, that cream of mushroom soup is the kitchen equivalent of duct tape. If something doesn't taste as good as it should, add bacon and cheese. God made cheese, chopped nuts and bread crumbs to cover up mistakes. I don't apologize for my beliefs anymore. Bet you think twice before you take me serious again. :lol: BTW, good to hear from you Old, how are You?


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## free rider (May 23, 2006)

I only cook from scratch (making my own bread, ketchup, etc.). Of course, not everything I eat is something I've made. I had a major life change recently and no longer have the time or space to cook as I prefer to eat. I'm trying to set up so that I can, but it's a slow process given the time and space. I have been thinking about starting a thread about strategies for dealing with little time and little space for cooking from scratch. Motivation has been the big thing, but I really feel like some stollen. Perhaps the desire for stollen will get me cooking again.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

>Reminds me of an episode of Top Chef where the contestants picked an inferior salmon because it was fresh over a better grade that was frozen.<

Another reason why I dislike most of those cooking-contest shows. The contestents often haven't a clue.

The fact is, unless you live within about 50 miles of the pier, FAS fish is almost always better quality than fresh. But the contestents, evidently, had no idea what the food-distribution system is all about. 

"Fresh" is like "natural." Very baggy words: you can put anything into them that you want. Reminds me of the New Agers and their view of herbs: they're natural, so they're good for you. Uh, huh! Let me tell you, it don't come any more natural than heroin. 

Unfortunately, "fresh" has come to mean "unprocessed." But, as Mark Twain (or was it Ben Frankly) so aptly put it, after three days, fish and relatives stink.


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## d.c. (Nov 2, 2008)

I think fresh food is overrated to some extent. Although I like eating fresh food, as you have already noted, the original thread was about cooking from scratch. I enjoy cooking from scratch but do not cook everything fresh. For example, come winter, how could I make marinara sauce without the tomatoes I canned last summer?

In terms of the food service industry, where would all of our casual dining restaurant chains be without processed foods? In this day and age, given labor costs and the convenience of processed foods, chains like Bob Evans use frozen packaged soups, mashed potatoes, mac and cheese, and chili. They also use packaged pancake and crepe mix. Their profit is generated through high volume sales, not through the production of fresh food or food "made from scratch."

Can you imagine what the labor costs would be if everything was made from scratch? As others have already noted in this thread, prices would also skyrocket during the off season if restaurants had to purchase imported fresh produce.

I find it ironic that some of the people who advocate going green and using fresh food are inadvertently contributing to global warming. 

For example, in 2005, the National Resource Defense Council estimated that California's demand for imported fruit, vegetables, and nuts released 70,000 tons of CO2. This is the equivalent to the exhaust fumes from over 12,000 cars. 

It would be far better for the environment if we ate food that was seasonal.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

always interesting to read about seasonal, locally produced food and the differences in prices/energy outlay and general unseen costs involved both in consuming and producing.

Interesting brunch today.....just me, just got in from 3 days at my dad's.....
menu was a smattering:
premade dolmas from a party last week
locally grown arugula, sunflower sprouts,gold rush apples
canned cannolini and cryovaced beets (beets are in season, but I was out  and pulled out the backups)
balsamic, evo, mustard, honey dressing.

One of the conferences I attended this past year at Wash U was on university's going green. Peggy Barlett of Emory in Atlanta spoke about their process of switching to regionally produced food. One of the academics questioned the difference in fuel usage of a semi from CA vs numerous small truckloads from local farmers coming to the city from 100-150 miles. Apparently CA load is more energy efficient.....surprising. Will not change my buying habits nor desire to support small family farms. 

It's an interesting time to be alive and cooking.....many of us have considered this a seminal time....change from: loss of basic cooking skills, "get big or get out" farming advice, loss of knowing where food comes from....etc.

The pendulum has swung so far that it's coming back, but like polyester pant suits they'll return altered with age....


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## rpmcmurphy (Jan 8, 2008)

i eat purdue supermarket chicken, MSG laden chinese food (extra MSG please), TOP Ramen, TV Dinners, McDonalds, Wendys and for the love of GOD I couldn't live without a white castle slider or 10. 

I use boxed stock. 

Canned beans

Frozen veggies

CANNED veggies

I don't churn my own butter...

why? Well, it's good enough for me. 

Do I occassionally make stock? yep, made 8 quarts of duck stock friday. Do I try to buy fresh? yep. DO I like McDonalds? Yep.....especially McRibbers. 


But.....my cat will surely only be fed the best cuts of salmon....she turns her nose up at canned tuna.....and would die if i fed her...........cat food. 


(disclaimer, I don't own a cat and was being funny)


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## free rider (May 23, 2006)

My cat likes Taco Bell burritos and Wendy's Frosty. 

(I do own a cat and I'm being serious)


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## lance folicle (Nov 1, 2008)

Transcript of Bill Moyers' Interview with Michael Pollan
Bill Moyers Journal . Transcripts | PBS

The Michael Pollan article, _Farmer in Chief_, that prompted the interview:
Michael Pollan Article

Lance


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## lance folicle (Nov 1, 2008)

I looked and couldn't find a single item unless you count mustard and ketchup. And pasta. And bread from the bakery. Does cheese count?

Lance


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

Ketchup, Mustard and pasta are all processed and contain preservatives so they have an extended shelf life. Bread and Cheese I will give you unless you are using "American" or an off brand Cheddar that is done the quick cheap way.


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## lance folicle (Nov 1, 2008)

Looking at the ingredient list of the mustard, ketchup, and pasta, I see nothing that appears tp be a preservative with the possible exception of citric acid in the ketchup.

I know the bread contains only minimal ingredients and no preservatives of any kind. The cheese - this time - is locally produced goat cheese. I don't use cheese like Tilamook or Kraft.

Lance


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

"Processed" doesn't necessarily mean "with preservatives." It means something has been converted from one form to another. 

Thus, cheese is a processed food, it's been converted, through fermentation, from milk to cheese. Ketchip is processed, converting whole tomatoes into a paste. 

The decision point, for each of us, is how far back along the chain are you willing to go. Bread from the bakery is processed. But, if you bake your own, so, too, is the flour you use. Do you grow the wheat and mill your own flour? Any beef, short of an entire cow, has been processed by a butcher who converted it from steer to sirloin. Do you not buy steaks because they are processed?

This is the choice we all make, consciously or not, when we cook anything. 

What was it Carl Sagan said: If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, first create the universe. 

There is a continuum, stretching from "create the universe" to "buy everything already made." We all place ourselves somewhere on that continuum. 

Personally, I have made my own condiments. Fattened and butchered my own hogs. Ground my own flour. Not because doing so is better or worse than store-bought. And not because I do these things on a regular basis. But I want to know that if I had to do them, I could. 

The fact is, and as much as I dislike her style, the way I cook---the way any of us cook---and the way Sandra Lee cooks is a difference of degree, not a difference in kind. So who is to say what food is "real" and what food is not?


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## d.c. (Nov 2, 2008)

Hah-hah ... who will say what's real and what's not? I WILL!










Do you think this is a grilled t-bone steak? It's not. Believe it or not, this is a soap product. I know because I made it. Unlike most home soap crafters who melt and pour soap in molds, I make old fashioned oil and lye soap and craft my soaps by hand to look like food.

Here's another one ... a BBQ hoagie bun ... that's 100% non-edible, fully usable soap. :lol:









I like giving these out as gifts to friends. Parents especially like it when I give them cinnamon rolls, slices of pie, muffins, and cookies because kids seem to enjoy bathing with these soaps.


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## penguin (Aug 30, 2008)

What a perfect way to explain it! I love the apple pie quote. I guess I have always thought of "cooking from scratch" meaning using the basic ingredients that people used 60-70 years ago but I see now that there is more to it than that.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

the continum varies all the time, it's not stagnant......ie. when you have small children you cook differently than you do when you have teenagers, or when you are living alone vs living with numerous people......

Each season is different. 

So what kind of pig did you raise KY?


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

>So what kind of pig did you raise KY? <

A big, white one.  
I have no idea what the breed was. Didn't much care, frankly.

Note that I very carefully did not say "raised." I said "fattened." It makes more sense, from both an economic and time point of view, for me to buy a pig at the livestock auction and finish it off then to raise one from the get-go. But it's incredible how much feed those porkers can go through in a couple of weeks.

But the country hams and bacon I made from it were the best I've ever eaten.

>the continum varies all the time, it's not stagnant<

I'm sure you meant to say one's place on the continuum. And, of course, you're correct in that regard. But regardless of where a person puts themself at any particular time, I would say very few of us are near the create-the-universe end of the line. We all use processed foods of one type or another; be it milled flour or a (shudder) Crockpot Classic.


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## deltadoc (Aug 15, 2004)

As is usually the case KY, you're right smack dab on the button. Relatives of mine in a rural Iowa community, raised hogs solely to produce babies. At a certain point, they rounded up all the baby hogs and sold them to the "fattener". They said they could not economically compete by raising the hog and fatten it too. 

Just recently after doing this for several generations, they were forced out of the pig business completely because the big big farms lowered prices to the point where they were losing money.

An interesting sidelight, that surprised me in a weird sort of way, is that the mother hogs would cry and scream for exactly 2-3 days after the babies were taken, and then abruptly stopped and went on with life as before.

This would happen each time they birthed. When they got too old, they were all sent to the pizza sausage place.

Some other cousins in another Iowa rural community raised milk cows. When those cows got too old to economically produce sufficient milk to justify their existence, they too went to the pizza sausage factory.

I also loved the apple/universe Sagan saying! Good 'ol Carl. I wonder when he consumed mota if that was considered processed or not?

doc


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## allie (Jul 21, 2006)

I try to cook healthy, tasty meals for my family. Sometimes, I will admit, I go the Sandra Lee route and use cream of mushroom soups, cake mixes, etc. I do grow a garden in summer and freeze or can vegetables to use during the winter. Due to limited space and cooler weather this year, I was unable to put away enough to last until next year's garden but those are sure good eats in January. I buy frozen vegetables and sometimes canned. I cook in a lot of ways like I saw my mother and grandmother do it when I was growing up. They used storebought items for casseroles, desserts, etc. Now that I've discovered a love of creating new dishes and a desire to learn more, more, more, I find myself doing more of what I would call "cooking from scratch".


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

I cook dinner at home 5-6 days a week on a normal week but even I have to go the Sandra Lee route. My fiancee and I both work 50 hrs a week and that doesnt leave a lot of time for what most would call scratch cooking but I do cook healthy and make stocks and soups, casserole type dishes on the weekends. I think it all comes down to personal preference but I do believe that the consumers should be aware of what they are actually buying and unfortunately they arent.


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

For more than 20 years I've bought only organic meats and eggs. I'm more laid-back about fruit and veggies - but buy as many seasonal, local veg as I can. This is not feasible during the winter months inScotland, unless you want to live on root veg, a few brassicas and apples! BUT, I try to cook most meals, from scratch - but things like passata are obviously bought in, not a lot of Italian tomatoes avaiilable during our winter months.

I do not buy 'ready meals', or eat at fast food restaurants or buy coffee from chains like Starbucks.

Doesn't mean I don't buy some ingredients which are processed, including some bread (some I make) - cheeses, condiments etc.

I think that if people READ labels and SEE exactly what they are eating, they will be more picky!


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

pizza sausage.....wow, the catch all of old critters......

Chefs are not noted to be humble people, but "creator of the universe" is a huge pair of clogs to try and fill.....:crazy:

KY, have you done taste tests with different varieties of pig? There are large variences between the breeds in fat content, flavor profiles etc.
Super article in last week's River Front Times on a buddy of mine's hog farm.....
Hog Heaven by Kristen Hinman. Cute pix, really well researched and written.


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## marye (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm completely obsessed with making food from scratch and it sounds like I'm in like company! Cool!

I even make my dogs' food from scratch and I think they're much healthier as a result!

I like to occasionally write Foodnetwork and suggest that all the paula deen recipes that use cake mix really don't count... But, that's only when I'm in a cranky mood!


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## johncena (Dec 1, 2008)

Neeps, it's a funny thing. I always tell folks that I may not know much about allot of things but I know enough to get me into a world of trouble with just about everything


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

I haven't gone through that process, shroom. 

I don't disagree with what you're saying. But my purpose wasn't to establish culinary differences, only to learn the skill of doing it. 

If I were running a restaurant or catering company I'd certainly make the effort. And then arrange with a local farmer to supply the breed I particularly favored. 

In addition to breed, flavor profiles are affected by the hog's diet. One reason Smithfield hams were traditionally so good is that the pigs were fed peanuts. 

When I break-down a hog, the majority of it gets cured and smoked. That would include the hams, neck, bacon, and jowls. I wonder how much difference breed & diet would make to the final results?


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

bet you have plenty of heirloom piggies in your area......if you're ever coming this way there are some really great pigs, (great prices) 1/2 300# live weight is alittle over $100. I was inventorying the freezer and found 8 pig feet...hmmmmm........


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

I usually take half a shoulder and make that into bacon too. Makes great sandwiches! :lips:


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## oahuamateurchef (Nov 23, 2006)

I still have so many things to learn how to make from scratch. I'd love to know how to make my own bacon. 

I recently got a handle on making consistently good homemade bread. I am surprised at how easy it is to make, with a little bit of preparation. Even on the laziest of days it's only as hard as pulling a premade loaf out of the freezer and tossing it in the oven later.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Oahu,

Like so many "country" crafts, making your own bacon isn't difficult. But it is time consuming. 

There are lots of books on the subject. But, basically, you start by curing the meat. This means burying the belly, jowl, whatever in a mixture of salt and other flavorings. Takes roughly a week of this (turning, reburying, adding more cure if necessary) until all the moisture has been drawn out and drained away. 

When making hams, it's particularly important that you work the cure fully up around the bone. 

After that it's a matter of wrapping and hanging. Or smoking, if that's the route you choose. 

Although commercial makers do this year round, in temperature-controlled rooms, home curing of hams, bacon, etc. traditionally was done in the cool weather of fall. Hogs were killed, butchered, and put by then. 

If you want more precise instructions for doing a single piece (which means, among other things, you can use your fridge), PM me and I'll provide directions and a cure formula.


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

KY mentions the whole autumn pork thing.

Reminds me of a story I heard on Vermont Public Radio a few years back. In Barre (middle of the state EW, 3/4 up NS), there's an enormous granite deposit, so in the early 20th century they hired all these stoneworkers from Italy. The cemeteries are insane: these guys would make 8-foot Madonnas in their off evenings. 

But the thing that sticks with me more than anything is the reminiscence of an older woman, remembering that in her childhood, her bedroom up at the top of the little house would always, every fall through mid-winter, have rows and rows of hanging hams, sausages, bacon, and every other pork product. See, in Vermont, you can't do it outside too long, because the stuff freezes solid, so you need a high, drafty place. You slaughter in early fall, cure for a couple weeks until it gets colder, hang it outside enough to harden, then put it way up for months until it's ready.

Okay, now I'm salivating. One of these days I'm going to do this in my own little Vermont house, dag-nabbit!


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

If you do, Chris, better lay a tarp down on the floor.

Long about March there comes what is called a secondary sweat. The cured and hardened pork products, for reasons I've never understood, exude more moisture. Normally this is just enough to coat the surface, and it soon redries, forming an additional protective outter layer. 

This, btw, is why you sometimes find a powdering mold on the outside of hams and the like. Mold formed during that secondary sweat. But it's only on the surface, and wiping it off is all it takes. But I digress. 

The point is, there is often enough of this liquid formed to drip. And, unless you want an attic floor that is a permanent vermin attraction, you want to lay down something to catch it.


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

I just did -- to catch my drooling.

Did I mention that I live in Kyoto this year? You can get good ham, but it's on the order of $6 per 100g, or $27/lb. And it's not that great. Cheese? Forget it: think $8 per 100g for a functional cheddar -- that's $36/lb.

I adore Kyoto, and I can get an unbelievable range of wonderful food here, but this thread has now digressed into Chris-must-now-go-lean-over-a-basin territory.


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## focus (May 8, 2008)

I'll echo the unnecessary smugness call from the earlier post, and without any melodrama or tounge-in-cheek-ness.

IMHO (and I'm sure this will send waves of indignance throughout the forum): 

- making your own ketchup is great and all, but "I drink well water from above the arctic circle that's been tripple distilled by Sweedish lesbian nuns, EXCLUSIVELY" is a little absurd. I wish I had the money to turn down Evean because it wasn't my brand of bottled water. Then again, if I did, I'd probably spend it on some non-organic, fat and salt laden goodness. The tough-man competition to prove you have the least amount of perservatives in your pantry is a little silly, too. (where's Shel, BTW, this is right up his alley)

- What's with the morbid fear of salt? I'd rather have high blood pressure than bland food. (for those of you for whom HBP is a serious health problem - CALM DOWN. I have nothing against your special diet. For the rest of us, if it won't kill you, have at it)

- You could eat an entire lifetime of organic, vegan, all-raw goodness and you may live to be 150, but I'll trade 75 of those years for a single Big Mac on occasion.

- That being said, I'd love to make my own proscuitto, can my own veggies, and churn my own butter someday. But really just to say I did it, not because I have to cook food for which I was present for conception.

Focus


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

I agree with Focus, except for one thing: I want to make homemade prosciutto some time not just to say I did it but because you can get a high-quality pig leg for not a whole lot of money, the curing is dirt-cheap, and prosciutto costs a fortune.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

KY I've got a country ham that's been in my fridge for a few (probably 3 years now, uncut/unopened.....Johnston County buffet style boneless ham...probably 3#. Waiting for just the right occasion....or just plain forgetting it in the back of the fridge sitting on top of the 8 year old wax dipped 5# block of Goatsbeard chevre...not sure if this one has a name, it was a "mistake".....

My question is do they every go bad?


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## deltadoc (Aug 15, 2004)

I cook, can, make everything I can from "scratch". Why?

Because I find myself here alive on Earth without having been given a guidebook as to why I'm here and what I'm supposed to be doing.

SO, since my inbred inclination is to eat, and because I have time to kill, and because I enjoy cooking, and canning, and making everything from scratch, I end up saving money, feeding my appetite, and feeling a general satisfaction from the doing and the eating and the satiation that occurs afterwards.

When finally I die one day, maybe the worms will fight over my organic body! 

As I always think: One hundred years from now, I'll be gone, and everyone I ever knew will be gone, and what difference does any of it really make?

We're all just basically "killin' time" until "Surprise, you're next" saith the Grim Reaper.

doc


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

Yes, they do. Problem is, there's no normal way to tell before cutting it.

When you cut it, shave off all the mold and green and whatnot from the outside until you get to the happy pink part. Let it come to room temperature, or a little warmer, and smell it. Is it okay?

A bad ham, as I understand it, will (a) smell nasty, and/or (b) have bits of mold and wet yellow yuck going right down to the bone. If you have either of these problems, don't eat it.

My sense is that one usually eats a ham like this within a year of its being finished, so I'd not wait all that long before checking in. Fortunately, the kind of ham you describe is I think usually boiled or braised before eating, so at worst it would taste awful: you'll have killed anything that would kill you first.

There are these techniques where you run a probe like a barding needle into the ham and sort of take a core sample, but I don't know how you know whether the sample is either valid or acceptable.


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

I was hired by Whole Foods. I turned it down because down deep I do not believe that the public should be ripped off and overcharged under the guise of health. The only word that should be believed is ''No Antibiotics Organic''as this is really the only term that the FDA and USDA has absolutely defined. 
All the rest is nonsence.
Diebetic, low fat,healthy, natural, dietetic, unsaturates, low cholesterol, low sodium, un processed etc.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

chris, boneless country.....so this one is smaller than a football, thin slices on bisquits is the general use for these babies.....no additional cooking.....I'm not cutting/poking into it until I'm ready to eat it, just think if poked it's more apt to spoil. This is not a bone in leg but a well wrapped commercially sold country ham.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Shroom, I'm not sure about those boneless hams. In theory, they shouldn't go bad anymore than a regular, properly cured ham, does (people used to buy Smithfields at a child's birth, then hand it down when they got married, or came of age, or at some other similar happy event).

But, those boneless ones are injected with additional water, and I have no idea how that effects the longevity. If the label says to refrigerate it, I wouldn't think it lasts as long as a regular ham. 

And you're right about not poking or cutting it until you're ready to eat it. That's a definate way to introduce bacteria and mold spores to the inside. 

That aside, what are you waiting for? If "just the right occasion" hasn't appeared after three years chances are it ain't gonna. I'd start slicing and enjoying the ham.


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## focus (May 8, 2008)

Thanks, and you're right about the cost effectiveness. I forgot about that. I could eat pounds of the stuff but not at 12.99 or whatever the going rate is. Definitely cost effective to DIY


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## jackklark (Sep 10, 2008)

I have always tried to cook healthy, low salt and health conscious. Even when I'm being extravagant. I was surprised to see the Biggest Loser cookbook written by Devin Alexander. Her Healthy Decadence theory is intriguing. It seems to be geared for people that want to feel like they're "cheating" everyday. I might be crazy, but I thought it was a good attempt to bridge comfort foods and restaurant cuisine with low calorie and low-fat alternatives.


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## grlcbrkmyginsu (Apr 24, 2008)

I admit, I'm guilty of eating and cooking "less than organic" food. I'll eat Zataran's instead of cooking red beans and rice for the 2+ hours it takes. I'll grab a sandwich at the caf at work instead of making my lunch from organic meats the previous day. I love me some hot dogs and mac and cheese out of the box. I have Heinz Ketchup running in my blood (i think that's ingrained in our heads at birth though since it's made here).

I do, however, love free range chicken and fresh meat. The problem is, the only way to get it cheap enough is to buy bulk and I can only do that occasionally. So I'll occasionally pitch in with my dad and buy a side or something. It just tastes better. Veggies, though, I can eat frozen and in some cases canned. It's just cheaper and easier, both things I like.

My old chef now works down the street from where I live (he runs a Deli now, calls it his retirement) and is my wife's boss there (small world huh?). I'll walk in occassionally after work or grocery shopping to visit them. I believe he summed up my feelings on the whole "making things from scratch" argument. A kinda stuck up girl that works there saw me with Zats in my grocery bag while I was talking to Chef and she asked "I thought you were a good cook, why do you eat that sh*t?" He looked at her and said "Because he doesn't get paid to cook that sh*t"

I love that old man lol.


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## dillbert (Jul 2, 2008)

I do quick&easy now and then as well. heh, life is actually short . . . 

but I would suggest separating "organic" from the rest of the debate.

while I support the general theory of organic being less influenced by "better living thru chemistry" I totally discount the free radical organic nut cases who insist a single molecule of msg will kill you.

I garden organically. worms and cow flop work wonders.

I try to fix as much foodstuff from "the original ingredients" as possible. now, that means chilly from dried red beans - vs canned beans with salt&goop - but frankly, I don't go out of my way to find "organic beans"

some of it is just outrageous - see the thread about "organic sea salt" -
huh? organic is pulled from the pond by ox vs. John Deere? the crystal grinder is powered by cow methane vs. diesel? just exactly how does one make a mineral product "organic"? 

common sense applies . . .


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## sweetpickle101 (Oct 31, 2008)

butter 
milk
cheese
yoghurt and other dairy products
canned tomatoes
canned tuna
frozen peas
dry pasta
bread 
frozen puff pastry and phyllo
dried spices
broth occasionally
mayonnaise
mustard
sausage and cured meats
pickles
dried fruits

I cook mostly from scratch, and yes I can fresh Albacore, King Salmon,Peaches and Apricotts from my Garden, make Pomagranate Jelly ( have a gallon of juice left in the freezer ), freeze black and boysenberries, make my own sundried Tomatoes, grow basil,chives,tyme,etc.etc. In summer I grow vegies galore and freeze them for winter. All this in the hot AZ Desert. The fish we catch in August when we go to the Klamath River and sometimes are lucky enough to catch Ocean Rockfish, nothing better than fresh.
When we catch Salmon I smoke about 12 halfpints and vacumseal the rest
I do use processed foods like flour, sugar, honey, herbs and spices and some froozen things, so I am not a foodnut. I like in-n-out and pizza hut too, lol.


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## jillyg (Jan 11, 2009)

I have three very busy kids and a husband who travels extensively and there are times that those cans of "crap" come in handy to help me at least PARTIALLY home cook meals for my kids. 
I am a bit of a food purist in the sense that to me, if it has processed food in it you can't call it homemade but I am also realistic and there are times that call for breaking my own rules and lowering my standards LOL.
I recently went to a dinner party with an Iron Chef theme and I was really surprised that most of the dishes weren't really homemade/from scratch. Many were even store bought. It really was a shock to me, I figured that most people going to a "dinner club" party would at least MAKE the food yk?
oh well..


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## fortuna (Feb 3, 2007)

I do! I never use "chemical crap". I like how my own food looks and tastes. And I always know WHAT I eat! Actually, cooking is fun and it's not that hard. With all those kitchen helpers (mixer, blenders, etc...) cooking is fast and easy. Ant it is healthy! I am healthy, look way younger and a not fat because I know what I eat. An, by the way, I work overtime. But it is always possible to find time for cooking. At least something quick. People are sick and fat because of all those junks and "chemical crap".


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

I have mixed feelings about "Crap"....

As a human bean who cares for other Human's health and lives, I would really like to abolish all the crap and processed food from the world.

As a business owner, the worse the crap there is out there, the better MY food tastes and sells.

Don't sneer at crap, if it didn't sell it wouldn't be offered. Who was it, Kissinger who said something like, "The abscence of alternatives clarifies the mind marvelously"...?

Look, I grew up in the 70's and then it was the norm to have Dad at work and Mom at home. My Mom wasn't a fantastic cook, but she did cook 3 squares every day, and none of it came out of a can or box. Heck, out of a school of 200 kids I think only a handfull came from single parent families. Highschools offered Home EC classes for girls and Shop for boys and there were no coke or chip machines in the halls. People worked 40 hr weeks and there was no internet to suck up time. The Microwave was very large, rare, and very expensive, vacuum packaging was rare too, and most supermarkets had more "real" food than processed crap.

Nice, so I just listed a bunch of facts that no one cares about. But these facts have paved the way for crap to be sold us. At my kid's school a good 1/4 of the kids come from single parent families, the majority have dual income parents, and the slim--very slim minority have a stay-at-home parent. And this is a private school too. School potluck dinners are a "learning experience" for me. You'd think that as a parent bringing a dish to be displayed in front of 200 other parents that you'd put your "best foot forward", but I've seen alot of crap and ill-prepared food at these events. Many highschools do not offer Home Ec, many parents do not know how to cook--or more importantly how to shop, (or garden) and can not pass these life skills to their children, and there is far more processed crap then "real" food offered at the store.

I do NOT envy the single parent, do not envy the dual income family where one parent has exactly 1/2 hr to prepare a meal, and I have sympathy for people who know they don't know how to cook, don't like to cook, and more importantly, have no time to cook.

IMHO the people who can cook "real" food are people who: 1) cook professionly, 2) people who enjoy cooking and enjoy a decent meal at home, and 3), people who have time. 

The crap is only out there because people buy it. 

Ever wonder what would happen if there was no media advertising?..................


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