# Is it just me?



## jigz369 (Apr 20, 2007)

Okay, maybe it's because I'm old school but I really have an issue with someone referring to himself as a "Chef" when they have little or no experience. I busted my *** for many years before I earned the title of "Chef" and find it somewhat insulting that a culinary student or line cook has the audacity to call himself a chef. Is it just me being too sensitive over the belittling of my hard-earned title or do others have an issue with this too? Your thoughts please. 
Again, just my opinion.....


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## cheftorrie (Jun 23, 2006)

I agree, I dont really make a big deal out of it, but I find it a little insulting sometimes...
There have been a couple times when I have interviewed people that say they are chefs, and they're backround experience is T.G.I.Fridays and Outback or something, again, there is nothing wrong with those jobs, and line cooks, prep boys, etc, but it is not a chef posion... So, I guess it kind of bothers me, but I try not to let it get to me.


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## salliem (Nov 3, 2006)

I agree with you 100%...the KM where I work has addressed any man that works in the kitchen as "chef"..and then of course when I tell any one of them to do something, they look down their noses at me..because the KM/Chef has already told them numerous times that they are "chefs".

I finally got him to see that that was a huge mistake. I have 30 years experience, I am self trained, I have been a trainer for Stouffer Restaurants and I am currently the only one who works at my restaurant who can jump into anyone's shoes...and he has never addressed me in the same manner. No you are not being overly sensitive.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Welcome to the club. This is a N. American problem, as only in N. America a "chef" is any eejit in a poofy white hat, kinda like any eejit with a camera is a "professional photographer"... We have no trade qualifications that other (electricians, gas fitters, doctors, etc) trades use and that Gov'ts--both Federal and Porvincial/State will use to distinguish between eejits and real cooks. To compound the problem there are alot of schools that pump out "chefs"--not cooks mind you, but "Chefs", sometimes in as little as 3 months--with no previous industry experience required. Many schools feel that calling students "chef" encourages professional behavior, and once again, "cook" is a dirty word.

Deep down in the mire I think the "Chef" term was supposed to seperate the hash slingers from the other cooks. Problem is that in order to become a Chef, you need to become a competant cook, and "Cook" is a dirty word here in N. America. 

On a llghter note, I hear that places like Apllbees now call they guy whyo dumps stuff in the deep fryer the "Drop-Chef", and it has become very chic to use "chef" as verb, as in "I chef at X's and I wear a Chef's coat when I'm cheffing"........


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## peachcreek (Sep 21, 2001)

This has been a well discussed topic here over the years. And my sage advice after watching people get very passionate about the subject for years and years is this: Call me whatever you want. Just enjoy my food and buy it.


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## goose (Feb 12, 2007)

I think it is more of an ignorance problem than a lack of respect problem...here is my story:

I just began culinary school...and am a career changer from the IT industry. My brother just received his MBA a few months ago. The other day, my brother asked me how "Chef School" was going...I corrected him by saying "Believe it or not, it is as much work as your CEO School you just graduated from".

I think he got the point.

On another note, have found that some culinary students seem to think that they are "above" certain tasks. In class, there are a handful of us who just roll up our sleeves and go do the dishes when they are piled up. The same group of people sweep and mop up at the end of class...there are a select group of students that have never done a dish, and never picked up a mop. I think it is those students that will come into the industry thinking that they are "Chefs"...I just hope they get weeded out in school before they make it to the real world because I dont want to be lumped into the same category as those fools.

Not all culinary students are ignorant enough to think that a piece of paper (that, most anyone can get, really) entitles you to be called "chef".

I make no big deal about it though becuase it is obvious that the have never stepped foot in a kitchen either...they are in for a rude awakening when they get their externship and refuse to do the dishes when the real Chef tells them to do them...I just hope I am in the same kitchen as these students when this happens...it will be fun to watch that train wreck!


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Back when Novell began calling their certified technicians Netware Engineers there was a similar brouhaha from the college graduate type engineers.

No one owns the word and it has no legally restricted meaning and so anyone who wants can use it. Same with chef. 

It boils down to if they can do what you need them to do regardless of title.

On the other side of equation, technical writer had/has a somewhat negative connotation because of a bunch of hack work some technical writers had performed. Many wanted to reinvent their title as if that would solve the problem of someone doing shoddy work. But it's still the same work and there's good people to be had from among the incompetent.

References are worth a lot.

Phil


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## thetincook (Jun 14, 2002)

The only thing you need to be a chef is to be the boss of the kitchen.

It doesn't take schooling or years of experience. If you've never worked in a kitchen in your life, you could buy a restaurant and become a chef tomorrow.

Chef means boss, thats all.



I do call certain people chef as a term of respect, even if i no longer work for them.


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

thetincook;186326 said:


> The only thing you need to be a chef is to be the boss of the kitchen.
> 
> It doesn't take schooling or years of experience. If you've never worked in a kitchen in your life, you could buy a restaurant and become a chef tomorrow.
> 
> ...


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

And if the "Chef" has done just that, bought himself a kitchen with no previous experience, and proceeds to run it into the ground, do you have respect for him/her? Respect for the title?

Yes, I agree, Chef means Boss, but I won't work for anyone I don't respect. I might hate their guts, but if I can't respect their cooking or management style I won't work for them, because I don't respect them; just eejits in poofy white hats dragging our profession further into the mud.

Like I said, this is a typical N.American problem. We have stringent trade qualifications for electricians, plumbers, etc, but not for cooks. Think about it, how many private schools are there for other trades? Does the State of Alaska recognize a journeyman's ticket from the State of Maine? Does the C.I.A. recognize AFC credentials? Vice versa?

It's a mess, further perpetuated by Foodnetwork and some cheap cooking schools. It just isn't socially acceptable for these people/organizations to admit that a Chef MUST come from a competant cook. 

Heck, even the AFC won't even use the word "cook", it's "culinarian", and judging from the material on their website, they don't lay too much emphasis on "cook", but there must be a dozen different classification for "Chefs". 

Want respect for the term "Chef"? Here's the secret code, the quickest and most practical route, I call it the 4 T's code: "Trained Trainers Training the Trainees.


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## andyg (Aug 27, 2007)

Same is true in my trade--plenty of idiots doing it, hacks. The good thing is that we who have some pride in what we do will make sure it's done right even if we have to ask for advice from another.


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## dmt (Jul 28, 2006)

Well, since it's fashionable to tack on the title of "Chef" to just about any labor effort associated with preparing food (and just to make things interesting around my house), I'm may start referring to myself as the "Chef de Grain". 

That's the guy in charge of pouring out dry cereal into bowls, and artistically (with a technical expertise developed over years of practice) slopping milk over the cereal...

I do empathise with those of you who have worked at developing your skills in the trade/craft to a level of competence where you can run all the elements of the kitchen under your domain, yet are beset by less experienced "technicians" who feel that they are entitled to command a job title that implies a certain level of respect... 

Maybe I'll try out for the position of "Soup Chef"!!

(Nah, no Cheffin' way...) :crazy:

and my engineering title is *NOT* subject to discussion... :blush:


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## andyg (Aug 27, 2007)

How many McDonald's chefs are there? The one who makes the fries. The one who flips the burgers. The one who toasts the bun. Wonderful that we have so many chefs in this world, eh?


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## rblum (Jul 14, 2005)

to post a bit of devils advocate, i have seen a bit of lets call it reverse predjudice. People who were whats the word.. oh yes, "clasically trained" not giving the respect to those who came up through the trenches. I love the all too present question. "Where did you go to school?" as if by not going to school you are less of a chef. I have met some cullinary students from some of the top schools that would have been better off spending their tution on sometrhing else, who have the audacity to question another's merrit due to the fact that they chose to get paid to learn in place of paying to learn. There is a lot to what we do. I think that we all know who is who and who has what it takes. To **** with all the others. We are the psychos who miss 1st birtdays, own birtdays, Labor on Labor Day, and watch other families enjoy together time. Why? because you can do some pretty cool 
[email protected]!& with an egg, flour, milk and some water. that's all I give a **** about. Call me chef, call me cook call me jack *** i dont care. I just prefer my first name.


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## andyg (Aug 27, 2007)

What it comes down to is, do your customers love your food? If they don't they won't stop by often. No matter what school you went to.

If they love your food then you are right on. I'm still not going to McD's unless I'm really hungry and not picky


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## thetincook (Jun 14, 2002)

I do, otherwise I'd find myself fired. There's no need to be insubordinate. You seem to be mistaking _a chef_ to mean _a good chef_.

I like your 5T's foodpump.

DC Sunshine- Glad to be in good company.

As for all of the certification junkies out there, the only certificate we need is the food handling certificate. You're not going to endanger anyones life (except your own) if you put chocolate on sea scallops, but you will if you don't store it properly.

The most important trade qualification for a chef is his ability to generate income for the establishment. There are lots of ways to achieve this and they don't all start with years of experience in the kitchen.

On the brigade system, back in the old days there used to chefs de partie which were in charge of individual stations. So yes, you could have a grill chef or a soup chef, a fish chef, a veg chef, or even a "drop chef."

I like being a cook, I'm proud to be cook. It's just a pain to explain the difference, especially in social situations. It can really put a damper on the mood, so I just roll with it sometimes. (ooh, you're the _chef de boudoir_? How exciting!)

Also, please stop knocking all the "ejiits" getting into the industry. If not for them, I couldn't get cheap equipment at foreclosure auctions.


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## andyg (Aug 27, 2007)

Good on ya, Tin. It's a question of what you can do and how well you do it.


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## ras1187 (Oct 3, 2006)

The term "Chef" has been abused for a while now... I'm surprised people all of a sudden take offense to its misuse. I understand the amount of hard work that goes into earning the title, but why get frustrated over something that is going to happen and will not be stopping anytime soon.

In normal conversation with those outside of the biz, I get called chef all the time. I tried explaining the difference between cook & chef, but gave up.

I actually prefer to be called by first name and intend to keep it that way.


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## chefraz (May 10, 2007)

i don't know why you think its a dirty word in N america. its not...but in schools it probably is . because they want the kids money. to make money people will do anything. a.i. promising they will be a chef after school. thats why I think hands on experence is way better than schools, for the most part. you have someone in most cases that will teach you how to get from point a to point b.


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## cheftorrie (Jun 23, 2006)

Its just my opionion tincook, but I strongly disagree. By your statement, there can only be one chef per kitchen quota?


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

You are not the chef until someone calls you chef.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

lololol......right to the point Kuan!
how many chefs on this site (that are the end of the line in a food establishment) would occasionally like to be a follower?


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## thetincook (Jun 14, 2002)

Not at all. It depends on how your business is setup.

Take a large hotel for instance
-You've got the chef in charge of the coffe shop
-You've got the chef in charge of the fancy restaurant
-You've got the chef in charge of banquets and catering.
-Then you've got the exec chef in charge of all three.

Even though they may use the same kitchen at times they're still chefs.

Chef is a managment position. You can have one in charge each profit/loss center if you want.

As far your question about only one chef per kitchen:
You can have two managers at the same level, with the same direct reports, responsible for the same things at the same time, but it sounds like a recipe for conflict and needless redundancy. How many bosses are in your kitchen?

Or possibly I'm missing your point. I'm not exactly sure what you're disagreeing with.


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## chefraz (May 10, 2007)

or more than two per room, we are open 24 hours a day,days ,swing,and grave we have four chefs. the exec chef, the asst exec(me),head baker, and the asst. chef.we run the baked goods and pasteries for 10 outlets.

it is an on going battle to keep communication between chefs,so everyone knows what happened when and why.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

It's true that a Chef must a be a good manager, and in order to survive, generate a profit, but no, he/she must actually KNOW how to cook.

If the Chef thinks that poaching is to drop a cracked egg into boiling water, odds are that the whole kitchen can't poach properly either. If the Chef figures that "saute" means to toss par-cooked pasta in a ready-made tomato sauce, odds are that the whole kitchen understands that that process is incorrectly called "Sauteing". Basically the leader, the boss, the chef, whatever you call him must understand any job thoroughly before he gives that job to his/her subordinates. If he doesn't, he can't inspect the job properly either because he/she doesn't have the full understanding of it. Incompetance, I think it's called. This is why armies around the world , since the concept of war, have had boot camps, and selected officers only from those who finished boot camp. If they didn't, they'd have lousy officers, alot of dead men and a few mutinys on their hands. 

But I digress, badly...Like I said this is a typicaly N.American problem. In Europe cooking is a respected trade, and acknowledged by federal Gov'ts. To become a cook you must complete an apprenticeship, there are very few private cooking schools, and those that are are not geared for professionals. The apprenticeship is viewed as a a seconary education, like highschool, so there are standardized tests, resulting in that the book learning is the same for every apprentice. Apprentices can only work under those who have succesfully completed THEIR apprenticeship. Trained elephants training the trainees. What you have now is a level playing field, very consistant education, and from this you can go on your way to becoming a Chef, or as high as you want. 

Compare this to N.America where you can work anywhere you want to, with no guarantees that that Chef actually knows what they're doing. You might work at a high-end steak house and learn how to grill and saute but have no idea how to braise or poele. Or you could go to a cooking school, many are private run. But there is no consistancy BETWEEN these schools, what is curriculum for one school is not curricculum for another, what is acceptable standards for once school is not acceptable for another. 

There are no national standards. 

This is the problem.


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## thetincook (Jun 14, 2002)

That's sort of what I was trying to say.


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## oldschool1982 (Jun 27, 2006)

This reminds me a lot of a topic that sprung up back in February. http://www.cheftalk.com/forums/culin...lled-chef.html

Funny how quickly this one did explode tho. LOL

Like most, when I was younger in the career, Title meant the world. Stars were in the eye's and......Then I was slapped very abruptly upside the head. Good thing too! For some reason I always felt some discomfoirt in being called Chef. Not because I never earned the title but because I remember the people that wore the title before me. Somehow, in my own eye's, I always paled in comparison. But as I matured in the profession I finally began to understand exactly what being called a Chef meant. So I gradually accepted it but never really overcame the prior feelings.

There have only been a couple times in my life where I actually stressed the title but if you can imagine there were some pretty extenuating circumstances surrounding that statement.

I know I've stated this before but I believe it is worth repeating. None the less here are my beliefs on what it means or when it is proper to being called a Chef.

Rant over, soap box tucked neatly under cabinet.


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## ras1187 (Oct 3, 2006)

Another thing to add, I am sure that at some point in all our lives, we have offended someone else similarly by ignorance/lack of knowledge.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

foodpump what is poele?


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## -cp (Aug 22, 2007)

I've been cooking @ home now for about 5 years or so.. Certain family members always refer to me as "Chef" - It makes me upset when they do that as I have a profound respect for what a "Chef" really is... and I ask them repeatedly to stop calling me that..

Most folks don't realize that the term "Chef" is much more than someone who can cook.. it's a mastery of the art of food if you will and I know I'm far from ever being in the same league as any true "Chef"...


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Poele is one of the 14 principles of cooking, I guess the english translation would be "butter roasting". Usually used for meats, which are allowed to cook in their own juices on a bed of vegetables/aromatics. This is done in a covered vessel, so there is not much colouring, and a more delicate flavour.


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## ras1187 (Oct 3, 2006)

If a Chef is merely the head of a production kitchen, then technically that makes the KM at the TGIFriday's the "Chef" of the restaurant, doesnt it?


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## -cp (Aug 22, 2007)

chef














 /ʃɛf/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[shef] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation -noun 
1.the chief cook, esp. in a restaurant or hotel, usually responsible for planning menus, ordering foodstuffs, overseeing food preparation, and supervising the kitchen staff. 
2.any cook. 
[Origin: 1835-45; < F; see chief







]

Chef - Definitions from Dictionary.com


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## thetincook (Jun 14, 2002)

You betcha! Last time I checked _chef_ meant chief in English, not Shaolin Master of the Foodly Arts. Of course my French is a little rusty.

Foodpump- I'm glad somebody is out there doing poele. I thought it was a long dead technique outside of france. That's the one done with matignon instead of mirepoix, right?


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Yeah, and if you do the matignon nice, you can incorporate it into the sauce--an a'la minute sauce of course.


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## thetincook (Jun 14, 2002)

If I could do matignon nice I'd be a surgeon. Do you make a new matignon for the garnish, or do you use the one from the pot? Also, do you use ham in the matignon? I've always been surprised by how much ham Escoffier used.


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## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

Argh! Talk of Poele is irresistable to me! I haven't been around for the last few monthes, though I've been skulking through the boards recently. 

Let me say that I am one of those guys that went to cooking school. And at no point did I ever think that my diploma from said school would impart magical "chef powers" on me. I hate to see the conflict between those who "battled their way through the trenches" and those who "studied their craft with the masters" type of stuff rear its head. The title of Chef is a weird one, its a combination of knowlege, experience, ability and, at some level, recognition of ability. 

I really don't think that you can buy this title (the fact many people do is besides the point and is more of an issue with N.A. food culture than the title itself) either by going to school or by purchasing a restaurant. 

The designation of Chef should be transferable, which takes it way beyond the status of "boss" or "kitchen manager." Somebody called "Chef" should be able to do their job in **** near any kitchen (with reasonable limits based on background and nationality of cuisine). I could probably fill the role of Chef if I owned my own restaurant and worked exclusivly to my own standards. I could probably design a decent menu and train a staff to cook it in an organized and cost effective manner. That said, I would have no chance in **** of being able to be air dropped into a new kitchen where I would have to cook to another's standards and expectations. That, to me, is the mark of a Chef.

--Allan


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## yanty (Sep 2, 2007)

i did a four year apprenticeship in Australia, and got a "Certificate in Trade Cooking".

At College and a lot of kitchens I worked in "Chef" was a put down, or what you called someone whose name you forgot.


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## coregonus (Aug 10, 2007)

Terminology..terminology...


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## thetincook (Jun 14, 2002)

I meant coffee shop as in a diner not a Starbucks. And if you've ever run the line during the breakfast rush, then you know how much skill it takes, and wouldn't have any trouble calling the guy in charge chef.


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## cheftorrie (Jun 23, 2006)

A Saturday or Sunday breakfast rush can be just as hard if not harder than a Friday or Saturday night dinner rush. Im GLAD my restaurant is NOT open for breakfast though!


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## epicous (Aug 12, 2004)

_- "What is your profession?"_

_- "I'm a Culinary Professional"._

*CulPro.*



.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Mmmm, almost as good as the AFC's term, "Culinarian" which is double-plus-good-newspeak for "Cook"....


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## coregonus (Aug 10, 2007)

EXACTLY what I meant. People get used to call anybody in charge of anything a chef! Isn't it about qualification?

C


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## quinn01 (Apr 22, 2006)

I honistly beleive, that if you can go to a decent reputable school for culinary arts, and graduate, then you can call yourself a chef, thats IF you have worked in a running resturaunt and have busted your ***. Ive been working in resturaunts since i was 13, now im 18 and studying at The CIA. I still dont call myself a chef, because im not, not yet. I still yet have to get through this college, get my degree and then set my life up where im confortable and ready to rock it out.

I agree with you when you say you have to earn the title of CHEF. Untill then, your just a cook. 

Thats what i think.........


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## inabox (Nov 27, 2006)

I think you become a chef not when you say your a chef but when your peers start to call you a chef. I was working at the Cajun Pepper for 4 years started as the dish washer and ended up at the sous chef job before I left. Still didn't like calling my self chef. After I finshed the Collage portion of my apprenticeship I got a job at Cassa Bella on the Thames. I was hired for the job of the Chef. The owner is the executive chef he over sees my resturant a second resturant in town and a catering company run out of our location. My job description fits the definition of working chef. So at this point since I do the work of a chef and my peers are now calling me a chef I would think I'm a chef at 21. 
Does that sound right? When did you start saying you were a chef when people asked you what you did?


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## anneke (Jan 5, 2001)

Yeech... That makes me uncomfortable...
One of my instructors called me "chef" when I was in culinary school. We all did better then; weird psychological trick. Didn't make us chefs.

I teach. I get called Chef. Really I'm just a very lucky cook who happens to be a decent teacher. But I'm not going to stop my students from calling me Chef; I think it would be a disservice. But it does give me a chill when I hear it, like nails on a chalkboard. Chefs are people like Cape Chef and Greg. Not people like me who are just really lucky and having way to much fun.


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## atltournant (Apr 24, 2007)

When I went to school,the first thing they told the students on day one was that in no way did you graduate a chef and that was an earned title that took years of hard work.
That was the most honest thing they ever told those kids:lol:...that and I notice in the dreaded tv ads that they put the little disclaimer that "some positions may require more training and experience".
I remember the first time someone called me chef [after many years working!] and I felt humble,like "Who,me?"


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## chefleon (Apr 2, 2007)

The key word,though, is _responsibility_. When I'm in a kitchen, any kitchen, and I hear the word "chef", my head instinctively snaps up and my mind prepares itself for another hurdle. It's probably a lot like hearing the word "Mom!"


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

Anneke,

I didn't know you were teaching. Fill us in.


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## chef linnie (Aug 25, 2007)

Well you probably would not want to hear my "thoughts", but here goes. I am currently attending Culinary school-however, I have been a Chef for many years at the restaurant level as well as 2 different 4 star resorts and one 5 star resort. 
When I first attended school many years ago, I received a certificate of completion. I always wanted the "degree".
I have a couple of other reasons for wanting to go back, but I don't care to share them on a public message board. 
Don't know if your original comment could have been directed at me and I don't mean to come across as "snippy"-just wanted to explain my reasons for my particular screen name.


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

I like that thought - does it also include the idea of an authority figure? (would very much assume it does). To me, it equates with boss/leader/person in charge to whom everyone in the place is answerable to- and who is in the long term has to take the flak for any shortcomings/mistakes, and that person needs to earn and maintain that status.


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## bluezebra (May 19, 2007)

I much prefer "kitchen goddess" or "HRH" to chef!  But then I am a legend in my own mind.


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## headless chicken (Apr 28, 2003)

The whole kitchen hierarchy has changed, everyone in the kitchen is titled "chef something" now-in-days. Add to this the media attention from FoodTV, everyone wants to be called chef regardless of background experience or position.

I have 3 years under me with 2 years of schooling, I've been offered the chef position where I'm working twice and at other sites, I can jump into anyone else's jobs in the kitchen and do it with a fair degree of efficiency regardless of how often I've done it before but I will never refer to myself as chef. I personally don't think of myself as chef, nor do I truly want it anyways but regardless, I'm not a chef.

Then there are these punks out of school, wearing an assortment of facial jewellery, arm hairs longer then the hair off the top of my head, wearing baseball caps, doing half the hours I am, touting around with Chef [insert idiot's name] engraved on their jackets. I get a little giggle out of it and put money into the pool "how long with this newbie last"...


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## fstfrdy (May 9, 2007)

Over the years I have learned that "Chef" is earned. I love the quote refering to hearing Chef is like hearing Mom:talk: that is so true at times.

Cheers fstfrdy (Bucs Chef) :smoking:


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## pgr555 (Aug 3, 2007)

I find this thread interesting. I am NOT "school" trained. I have been a professional caterer for 7 years and began personal "cheffing" this year. About 3 years ago I was asked to do some segments on a tv cooking show. They kept refering to me as a "chef". I kept insisting they call me a cook or professional caterer. Somehow instinctively, I believe the title is earned... I am not sure HOW it is earned... I never realized people felt so srongly though. I gues it is like my other profession: social work. In that work I earned a master's degree and a license. The title is protected by law & I find it upsetting when people without any training call themselves social workers. In that siuation it is absolutely a case of income and respect.. So the difference is??
pgr


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## bombayben (Aug 23, 2007)

Superb post and I quite agree!!!:bounce:


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## inabox (Nov 27, 2006)

First I'd like to day that I agree that you can be a Chef with or without collage, with or without a red seal. (altho having your C.C.C. makes you a chef no matter what you say you do lol.) Any ways this Thread had gone on for 4 pages now with us all puting our two cents in on what we all think of our selfs, witch is good. It's been a chance for some of us to take stock, thoses of you that call your selfs line cooks that want to be chef's maybe this had given you a chance to see were you fall short. 

But I've noticed that there is no deffantion on what a Chef is, so I grabed out my Larousse Gastronomique and I don't think there are many people hear that would say the Larousse Gastronomique is wrong.
"Chef A person who prepares food as an occupation in a restaurant, private house or hotel. Todays top chefs are often media personalities, authors and demonstrators; those who are not famous are not necessarily less talented and their roles may be equally dicerse, including those of business executive, public relations and promotiuons manager." Now it does go on for quite a bit on the history of the "Chef" but I didn't think it was all to important for the point of this thread to keep typing.


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## pjaveni (Jun 29, 2007)

I have been in and out of the restaurant business for many years. I grew up in the family Italian restaurant business and have had a couple of my own. I am currently preparing to open my new restaurant. I am not professionaly trained and consider myself a cook NOT a chef. I agree with your feelings and don't think people should call them selves CHEF if they have not had the proper training and put in the time.


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## thetincook (Jun 14, 2002)

Dude, if you're opening your own place, and are still thinking on the level of a cook, how the heck are you going to run your own place?


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## greg (Dec 8, 1999)

Also, not considering yourself a chef doesn't necessarily equate to thinking on the level of a cook. 

BTW, I would disagree with Larousse.


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## thetincook (Jun 14, 2002)

It affects how you lead and manage.


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## inabox (Nov 27, 2006)

Were do you disagree??? It's nice to know how others think?


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## usingtheforce (Sep 18, 2007)

Personally, I agree the term is abused. But, as long as my customers and staff learn, enjoy my food, and have a great time when they are there(and think about it when they are not), you can call me "cook", "chef", "hey buddy", or even "a**hole" for all I care...... I haven't heard "poele" or "matignon" for a long time- this site is great, I love talking shop!


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## greg (Dec 8, 1999)

By Larousse' definition, a chef is anyone that prepares food as an occupation. Fast food workers fit that, but they are hardly what I would consider to be a chef.


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## greg (Dec 8, 1999)

How so? Some qualities that affect how you lead and manage would be organizational skills, confidence, ability to get along with others, ability to persuade others and ability to motivate others. These qualities are either inherent in a person or learned throughout life. The consideration of oneself as a chef or not don't even enter the picture, I'd say.


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## thetincook (Jun 14, 2002)

It's like the difference of working in your business versus working on your business.

If you've got a chef that just wants to be a cook, he'll end just doing a cooks job and let the chefly duties slide.


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## greg (Dec 8, 1999)

While that statement may be true, you're reading meaning into what was said that isn't there. pjaveni never said he just wanted to be a cook, he said he didn't consider himself a chef. It's not the same thing.


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## porkchopboy (May 31, 2003)

I've been cooking for 20 odd years. As a "Chef" I've cooked in my own restaurant, been a Sous Chef and Assistant Room Chef in Las Vegas, a Chef de Partie in Manila. Now I'm line cooking at a small restaurant in Wisconsin. I also do some ordering, menu development and the evening specials, I really don't know what catagory I'm in at the moment. Frankly I don't need to have anyone or any organization to tell me when I've reached the once lofty position of "Chef." I know it takes years of hard work and a bit of talent. I'm looking beyond having a title and looking forward to improving on my skills and knowledge of my chosen craft.


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## sabra_1 (Jan 27, 2002)

I have been in this industry years now and have to say I didn't do 3 years hard slog at college and then get my butt kicked for many more years to be lumped in with burger flippers who call themselves chefs. I would prefer to work alongside someone who has always had a love for food and is passionate about making a difference than some idot who just talks the talk and their food is crap and tasteless.
I have a for instance at present I am working with a right plonker who is 22 wants to be a michelin star holder and he can't cook worth a ****, he told me he has been to college ( in a pigs ear) when offered help, he says I won't listen to you ( screams) the title chef for is like an extension of his penis, he hates women in the kitchen and feels totally threatened. REAL CHEFS work as a team, I love my past mentors who have given me time and encouragement. Get rid of the ego trippers I say.


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## free rider (May 23, 2006)

My two cents: My bet is that chefs are not paid very well, so the title becomes more important. I can't imagine being paid six figures and then quibbling about my job title.  

PS the job of chef and the job of cook are both extremely important. They handle the very sustenance of life... our food.


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## nativechef6685 (Oct 17, 2007)

I'd have to agree with the general consensus here. The title of "Chef" is earned not given. Just cause the uniform requires a chef's coat doesn't make you a chef. I find the ones that really get under my skin are the freshly graduated culinary students that think cause they've spent the last 15 to 18 months in culinary school gives them the right to be called "chef". I never went to culinary school, instead I opted for earning my title the hard way, 2 long years of apprenticeship under a very demanding chef and then I still had to earn the right to be called "chef". In my opinion a chef is a leader , a mentor, a teacher, and most importantly a creative force. 

Best Regards


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

my definition

chef=one in the kitchen who is the bottom line....how they choose to be the btm line is their deal.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

Some consider not being certified, or not having a formal culinary education, as not deserving of the title.

As with any profession, with a few exceptions, the guy that has been doing it for 20 years has probably already forgotten more than a fresh culinary graduate will ever know.

I went to school, the school of hard knocks.
I started out as a dishmeister, slowly working my way up, sometimes sideways, and occasionally backwards, then up again.

I'm currently an Executive Sous Chef, which we all know translates into "the Executice Chef's Main B!tch".

I've been the Exec. Chef a couple of times, the Chef named Sous a few more, and many lower positions.
I'm not above jumping in wherever needed, be it the dish pit or the line.

The only downside for myself is that the school of hard knocks isn't always the most well rounded of educations.
I'm always learning, whether from my chef, books or my staff.

I call myself Chef because that's what I do.
What I am is a cook, and proud of it.


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## kevinvilla (Dec 7, 2005)

Here's a question:

You work your *** up (from whatever background) to an executive chef's position of some fancy restaurant in wherever. The restaurant gets bought out (or closes or whatever) and you lose your job. You take another position (not a chef's position) at another restaurant.

You're not THE chef, but are you still A chef? Would you prefer people you address you as Chef, whether inside or outside the restaurant?


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

For me, in that scenario, I'm not a chef.
You can title me whatever you want, but I am a cook.
If I am not titled chef at the new job, I'm not a chef.

I prefer to be called Jim away from work.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Let's invent our own definition, the Cheftalk definition of a "chef". If the ACF can invent the term "culinarian", we can steal back the definition of "Chef. I offer this definition up to be slashed apart, changed and redefined as seen fit.

A "Cook" is one who prepares food. A "Chef" is one whose responsibility is to see to it the cook a) knows what s/he are doing, b) have the right ingredients and equipment for the cooks to do thier job properly, c) ensure that the food prepared is sold at a reasonable profit, and d) ensure that the kitchen is run cleanly and effeciently.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

With that definition, I am still first and foremost a cook, regardless of title or responsibility.
Although, even as a Line Cook, I exhibit the same qualities as the Chef, whether given the responsibility or not
Of course I don't act like I am the head honcho, but I still look for the same results he/she does.

So, while holding the position of Chef, I am the Chef, and act accordingly.
While not holding position of Chef, I still hold myself to the same standard.
(just do it without the $$$ and, typically, the recognition).


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