# kitchen sinks!



## muscat (Nov 28, 2006)

I am planning a remodel, and plan to go stainless on the sink, with a two bowl model, one larger than the other. I think this configuration will fit my needs best, but I was envisioning the larger of these bowls housing the disposer, on the side of the dishwasher. The smaller bowl would then be more free for food prep, and the larger one could accumulate dishes, which as they are rinsed and placed in the washer, the disposer would be there for the little bits of food/etc on them.

While this makes sense to me, a number of things I have read have suggested that the *smaller* of the two bowls be the one with the disposer next to the dishwasher. 

Why would this be better?


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Probably mostly to do with fitting the disposal under the sink with the associated plumbing.

As to rinsing your plates, scrape them in the garbage or compost bucket as appropriate. New dishwashers don't need pre-rinsed dishes.

Further, you're doing the sewage treatment folks a favor and saving yourself tax money by putting as little as you can down the disposal. What goes down the disposal is undigested food. It takes much more time, energy and capacity to treat this in the sewage water than the standard digested sewage waste. 

Grease/oil should never go into the drain as they clog sewers and are difficult to treat at the plant.


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## schllac (Nov 12, 2006)

I tend to agree with phatch, but having been there I would get a single large bowl, mainly because of the large pots that I use.


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## mikelm (Dec 23, 2000)

Muscat-
Coming off a complete kitchen reconstruction a couple years ago, I can maybe offer a couple suggestions.

If you're doing the plumbing fresh, you can accomodate whatever location of the disposal you want- probably. The drain connection in the wall needs to be below the disposal drain. If you mount the disposal under the larger, deeper bowl, the drain connection will have to be pretty low.

I put in an Elkay SS sink- ELUH32211OL, a nice, 32"-wide double-bowl sink. After some careful shopping, I got it on the internet (Homeclick.com) for $500. The small bowl is 5-1/2" deep and the larger bowl is 10" deep. We didn't move the drain connection, so the disposal is in the smaller bowl, which is on the side away from the D/W. This gave more room to work out the drain connections.

Couple suggestions- though my sink has "heavy duty Sound GuardTM undercoating," running water into the big bowl produces a pretty drum-like vibration. I'm planning to find a sheet of 1/4" or so neoprene or some similar material and sticking it onto the bottom of the bowl with some gooey adhesive like roof-patching tar to dampen these vibrations better than the factory stuff does. That would be easier to do - if you think you might like it - before you put it in rather than later, when you will be working upside down. 

The other point is to INSIST your plumber uses _ball valves_ for the cutoff valves, not only for the sink, but also for lavs, toilets, and any other plumbing fixtures you may be replacing. The usual, little chromy cutoff globe valves quit working after *very* few years because the washers detioriate and/or get crudded up with mineral deposits. They don't work any more, and to do any sort of work or repair, such as replacing the faucet washers, you have to shut off the whole water supply. This applies as well to valves farther back in your supply line: if you have to replace any valves in your supply lines, don't use gate valves, which also crud up and quit working after relatively few years; use ball valves, which almost never fail. These are available at any home or plumbing supply store.

If your plumber argues about this, it's because he wants to come back in just a few years and replace the globe/gate valves for you. 

My son was in the industrial valve business for ten years- I consulted quite a bit for his company and learned a fair amount about valves.

I'm on the Board of my Condo Association and I insist that ANY valve replacement be a ball valve. The place is 40 years old and, sure enough, most of the existing valves, when we come to do some maintenance/repair work - don't shut off. That means shutting down quite a few units to do some simple repairs.

Mike


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## muscat (Nov 28, 2006)

Thanks Mike! That all sounds like great advice. My "plumber" may be my dad, if I'm lucky, so he's an easy guy to work with, and would most likely agree with you anyway!

I was very close to buying an Elkay ELUH sink myself, but found a Pegasus 16gauge sound dampened very similar (I hope) sink at HD for $400. I'll play with it a bit, and see if it is up to par. I was afraid to buy online.....we'll see how it goes.


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## mikelm (Dec 23, 2000)

Muscat-
Sounds like a good deal on the sink. When you test it, don't just set it on the ground and pour some water in. That will prevent the bottom from vibrating like it might when it's suspended in the counter.

Hang it from some kind of support around the rim, so the bottom is suspended. Then pour water in in various ways from about faucet height and see what you think. If it sounds a little drummy, you might think about applying some further deadening material before you install it. If it's upside down, you can weight the material down onto the adhesive with bricks, or something like that.

Have fun with the remodel. I figured mine - of the entire condo, not just the kitchen - would take eight to ten weeks.

Took eight months. 

Mike


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## muscat (Nov 28, 2006)

8 weeks...8 months......oops. Sounds like remodeling is a lot like touring on vacation- it will always cost more and take more time than you thought. I'll be happy as long as I'm done before it is too cold to do all my cooking on the grill.....planning it has already taken twice as long as I thought it would!


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Whether a room or a whole house, when remodeling just remember Cheops Law---attributed to the chief engineer on the Great Pyramid project at Cheops:

Nothing is ever completed on time. 

Later on, somebody added:

Or in budget.


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## crema (Mar 18, 2007)

I SOOOOOO agree with you on this! Even with a pull out faucet, wrestling with roasting pans, and 6qt saute pans in a sink with a too small bowl is a pain.


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## mikelm (Dec 23, 2000)

*Cheops* law...

Doesn't that translate from the Egyptian as "Murphy?"

Mike :lol:


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## jannie (Mar 17, 2007)

I work on houses and apartments as well as managing an apartment building; I've learned to use my disposal very sparingly to almost not at all. You don't have to talk to very many plumbers to figure out the whole idea of disposals is a nightmare to your plumbing, think of it like cholesterol buildup in your arteries...yuck.
Jannie


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