# New gyuto 210-240mm range.



## kaikaiseki (Mar 21, 2017)

I recently purchased two knives from the yuki line by masakage, and they are putting my miyabi kaizen gyuto to shame. I'm mostly noticing the lack of balance of my miyabi after using the yuki nakiri ( which is a shame considering I payed a little more for the miyabi) I'm looking for something in the 200-250 $cad range and have a new found preference for carbon steel. I have been sharpening my knives on a 1000 grit king stone and a 5000 grit penguin stone . I am picking up a 2-300 grit stone in the coming weeks.
I am looking for a rather light knife, I have small frame and have to do delicate work with my knives and so a lighter knife seems to suit me better. 

Also this is my first post. Thanks in advance for all the help.

Kai


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-GINGA-White-Steel-Wa-Gyuto-Knife-210mm-/381865590821
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...uchi-210mm-stainless-clad-blue-super-wa-gyuto
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn/ pending restocks, though there is this http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...-W2-and-Itinomonn-StainLess-Kasumi-both-210mm for now.

Though I don't know if you're going to get hit by customs with these options.

Takamura R2 (PM steel, not carbon) 210mm if you can find an option that gets the pricing where you need


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

So here's my opinion- miyabi kaizen is full tang, the handle has a bolster, and a metal end cap.   All that metal is heavy.  You will find that miyabi is very handle heavy compared to wa handle japanese knives.  They call this a feature because it is 'balanced'.  You might see some guy on youtube balance the knife on his finger to test as if this is a measure of quality. It means diddly squat to people who are using a pinch grip and especially who are mostly push cutting as typical with a flatter knife.  I prefer the balance to be forward on the blade actually

My point is most japanese wa handled knives are already lighter.  You don't need a laser to be lighter than miyabi.  Even well balanced mid weight knives are probably lighter.


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## kaikaiseki (Mar 21, 2017)

Foody 518:

The ikazuchi looks very nice and at a very good price point. Do you have experience with this knife?

Millions Knives:

yes yes yes. The miyabi was my first knife and it was not my most educated purchase. It is stainless steel (no rust yay is what i thought), it is japanese ( ish), and it looked pretty (i have grown to hate the"damascus cladding every time i sharpen it). However i have been shopping around holding different knives at shops around toronto. I agree with you that wa handled knives are much lighter than full tang. My Masakage knives feel much better in my hands and i do use a pinch grip. Thank you for the clarifications!

Thanks for the input pals


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

There's nothing wrong with having stainless in your kit. It's good to have options. It's also good to know exactly what you're looking for! Lightweight, carbon steel, check!

I guess you have been to Tosho knife arts already? Try one of konosukes. THAT is what we mean when we say 'laser' knife. Not the konosuke fujiyama (actually is a thicker wide bevel grind), i mean something like this https://www.toshoknifearts.com/collections/konosuke/products/white-2-br-gyuto-3 Really thin and light. Ikazuchi and ginga are similar types (and cheaper!). So as a reference point, do you want something that light or slightly heavier?

The downside of lasers is that they wear faster and you have to sharpen more often. Also the food release is not good (think potato slices sticking to your knife). On the other hand they fly through certain produce and there is less fatigue throughout the day. Everything is a tradeoff. That's why I keep different steels, different shapes, and weight knives.


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## kaikaiseki (Mar 21, 2017)

a little heavier.

I held some lasers at Knife and they were a little too light. On the other hand i held the fujiwara maboroshi wa handled gyuto at KNIFE and it was far too heavy for me. 

I have not been to Tosho as its not in my end of town however i have oggled their website and am thinking of making a trip down there today! 

I just checked and it seems like the konosuke is out of stock which seems to be the case with lots of the knives at Tosho. thank you for steering me back towards their website tho!

Kai


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Kai, the Ikazuchi is a laser - type knife. Nice performance at its price point, looks pretty cool when the core steel patinas against the more polished stainless cladding. It is light.

Was trying to root out exactly what you were looking for with a 'rather light knife', if that was in comparison to your Yuki.

If you've been to Knifewear, Haruyuki PM with the rosewood handles could also be good candidates for light but not laser. Just a bit above your listed price range, but you could get a feel for it regardless.

Itinomonn and Wakui should be top contenders for that light-middleweight range of great cutters that is between something like a laser and your Yuki

http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=95732

I'd suggest contacting any of the non-Canadian vendors to get a feel for what to expect on shipping costs and import/customs fees.


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## kaikaiseki (Mar 21, 2017)

Alright! I went down to Tosho and held some things and i have a much clearer idea of what i'm looking for. The two standouts were the Takeda NAS 210 mm gyuto and the Konosuke White #1 210 mm gyuto. The only caveat is that these knives are more than twice my budget. They are beautifully crafted and the perfect weight for me and i'm willing to save up a little longer. Does anyone have experience with these knives? they just feel right in my hand. Any other knives to look into that are of a similar weight/build quality ?


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

I have the konosuke white steel 210. It is way too light for me. Edge retention is below my other knives, but that white steel is so easy to sharpen. I got mine for $120, white steel, ho wood handle. That was worth it for me. More money, probably not. I use my itinomonn 210mm a lot more than this one http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-stainless-kasumi-210mm-wa-gyuto/ but it's out of stock.

The takeda I used had really sharp shoulders (see what i mean http://www.cheftalk.com/image/id/742951) . It's part of the hollow grind on both sides, but still really annoying. Old takedas were ground much thinner. Can't say it's worth the money compared to what else is out there.

Looks to me like you already have two nakiri and a short 8" Miyabi gyuto. I see a lot of redundancy. There are a lot of other knives that would round out your kit.

usuba - if you're working in kaiseki kitchen you should probably have one?

240-270mm gyuto - for bigger veg

butcher knife

heavy cleaver

deba

yanagiba

Of course I don't know what your prep tasks are, but be aware of the trap of collecting gyutos.


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## kaikaiseki (Mar 21, 2017)

Thanks for the reality check! I have a stainless henckels cleaver, the 165mm nakiri, 270mm suji and the miyabi. I admit that i am often whisked away by the aesthetics of the knife and it has come to bite me in the rear (miyabi). Thanks for the input. I don't work at a kaiseki restaurant however it is my favorite style of food to prepare at home. I currently work in a singaporean restaurant my prep tasks are mincing chili/garlic, julienne ginger, barrel cut carrots/cucumber, slicing shallots/ green onion/ chili. I use my nakiri for most of my veg prep. I'm using my gyuto for meat and fish mostly: portioning petit tender, trimming pork belly, portioning fish and slicing cooked protein for dishes. My miyabi still does the job, but i feel that it could be done more effectively with a knife that can hold a sharper and more precise edge. I will look out for an itinomonn 240 mm gyuto,

Thank you very much for the input. Millions knives.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

So... I know you were asking about gyutos but... I can't help it. I'm not saying go and buy these, but overall I think any of these would make your life better than incremental improvements in another gyuto. There's no perfect knife for everything for everyone. This is just my advice based on personal experience. Whether it makes sense for you or not, you can't know without trying and that costs $.

All your meat - http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/munetoshi-kurouchi-210mm-wa-slicer/ trimming? check. small butchery around bones? check. Portioning? sure! Slice cooked meat? check.

fish - get a cheap flex filet knife dexter, victorinox, etc. $20 at any restaurant supply

veg tasks - All your nakiri tasks I would use a chinese cleaver. All boneless meat that doesn't require a pointy tip I would use use a chinese cleaver. They are heavier, but if you let the weight of the cleaver do the work it is not bad. believe it or not a big knife helps very much in consistency of small cuts. That ginger and garlic mincing? rough chop then use the knife to smash and drag. I use the front of the cleaver for this. Also it's a bench scraper move cut produce off the board. The spine can be used to tenderize, you can use two cleavers to mince meat. So many things a nakiri can't do that add up to saved time. For the kind of food you're cooking it is def a must have. There's this CCK store 40 min out of the city http://chanchikee.com/toronto.htm Look for a CCK 1103 I bet you can find it way less than the $100 cktg charges. Suien VC is a step up from that at $160, harder better steel, but has some curve/belly that is offputtting to some. I got used to it but I tend to use the front or the back.

this is a must read IMO http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...course-on-why-I-love-Chinese-Cleavers-re-post


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

FWIW the 240mm Itinomonn StainLess (semi-stainless core) gyuto restocked today. It's out of your initially stated budget esp. considering the prospect of customs charges. The V2 Itinomonn are cheaper but are still out of stock.

The Konosuke lasers (were you referring to these or the Fujiyama wide beveled lines?) don't strike me as particularly similar to Takedas which tend to run quite tall (blade height)

There's also an ebay store selling the CCK for <$75 USD incl. shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/172378229350


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

https://knifewear.com/collections/masashi-vs1-tsuchime
Maybe also worth checking out one of these Masashi VS1 and seeing if the weight and grind are what you're looking for


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Just some thoughts on handle-heavy knives:

For the woods they come in real handy as they are less likely to fall out of your hand.

As for kitchen knives I have to admit I like the feel of the Ikon 9" slicer (one of the mistakes of my first actual knife purchases), which is very handle heavy, but given the very light blade overall weight is just 6.5 ounces.  If not for the crap Krupp steel it would be a nice knife.  I still use the Ikon almost exclusively for bread and sandwich slicing.  I keep a high polish on the edge, taboo to many when it comes to cheap stainless, but I don't find edge retention suffers for it, and if you pull real fast it will even go through hard and and also slippery (like croissants) crusts.

Forgive me for going a little OT.


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