# Official Steak Cooking Thread



## mrdecoy1 (Jan 17, 2012)

I'm having troubles with simply cooking a steak. I usually buy Sam's Club rib eyes that look well marbled, maybe I need to up it to "choice" or "prime" I usually take them out an hour ahead of time, salt well with kosher and fresh cracked pepper. I've grilled with oak lump, charcoal briquettes using a chimney starter, I've tried making on cast iron, all with mediocre results. Any ideas? thanks.


----------



## statscook (Aug 4, 2012)

This is a bit of a southern way of cooking it and not necessarily healthy but hey it's a steak... crack some pepper on it add a light amount of Worcestershire sauce put some butter in a pan and heat the pan to a medium heat. when the butter begins to melt  place the steak in there and just slowly cook it. I've found the key to a good steak is definitely in the temperature you don't want to cook it at too high a temperature that was a mistake I used to make all the time. 

I'm sure there are plenty of other ways to cook it and some probably much better than mine so I'm really curious to see the more experienced chefs responses. Thanks for posting this topic


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

So are we talking grilling exclusively, or are you interested in cooking them in a pan also? 

How do you like them, medium-rare? 

Can you describe what you find to be wrong with the steaks you've cooked so far? 

What I would do for grilling is make sure:

- the steak is perfectly dry before putting on the grill (use paper towels if necessary to dry it). 

- the steak is at room temp (take it out of the fridge AND out of its packaging 1 hour before cooking. 

- add salt the minute before you put the steaks on the grill: the salt will draw out the water of the steak, making it tougher, drier, and making its surface steam rather than sear or grill. 

- the charcoals are very hot. Ideally they should be red. Placing your hand an inch or two above the grate, you shouldn't be able to count to three before you have to remove your hand. 

- the grate is not too far from the coals. 

- there are coals everywhere under and just around the steak. 

- you rest the steak for 5 - 10mn under a lose piece of foil before serving. 

- if you slice before plating, make sure you S&P again just before serving. 

The rest comes down to the quality of the meat you purchase, and figuring out how long to let the steak cook depending on the strength of the fire and your desired doneness.

Hope that helps!


----------



## mrdecoy1 (Jan 17, 2012)

Grilling or cast iron, just that they are lacking that top shelf steak house mouth watering flavor. French Fries I do most all of that so that tells me I need to try really nice piece of steak. Like a thick choice bone in rib eye. I just wish a chef in a steak house would tell me exactly how they do it. Thanks


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Steak houses generally source excellent steaks, most often prime, which is a step better than choice. Having said that, you should be able to make a good choice steak sound reasonably close to what you'd get in a steak house. 

Steak houses also use very very hot broilers - but again you should be able to get a very good result with your grill or a pan on the stovetop. 

IMO cooking a really good steak is one of those very simple things that takes years to master. I'm really confident in my steak cooking abilities now but it took a few years of overcooked, undercooked, over seasoned, under seasoned steaks before I got where I am now. 

BTW getting the seasoning (which for me is typically only S & P) to be just right also takes some getting used to. 

FWIW I hate Kosher salt with a passion. I know every pro cook in the U.S. uses it but it just doesn't work for me. I exclusively use sea salt. I like to finish with fleur de sel. 

So go ahead and try choice steaks and let us know? Also maybe try a different meat purveyor. In our neck of the wood we have Gelson's supermarket who sell prime steak. They are ridiculously expensive but on par with what you'd get in the best steakhouses in the country.


----------



## mrdecoy1 (Jan 17, 2012)

Good points French Fries I need to get a great steak and do things the way I have been so I know if it's me or it's the meat quality. Don't get me wrong, it's not awful it just doesn't have that extra level of quality i'm looking for. Still tastes "home made." Yesterday I tried this method I read where you sear the sides first actually holding it with tongs on a cast iron skillet then add butter and minced garlic. I think this was Ducasse? method, still underwhelming. Thanks.


----------



## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

French Fries said:


> BTW getting the seasoning (which for me is typically only S & P) to be just right also takes some getting used to.


I add a touch of granulated garlic. Those fancy steak rubs and seasonings just don't do it for me.

mjb.


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

teamfat said:


> I add a touch of granulated garlic. Those fancy steak rubs and seasonings just don't do it for me.
> 
> mjb.


I've tried just about every rub including my own home made ones. I even tried brining steaks (which gives a very good result!!) - but finally went back to simply cooking a quality steak with S&P. The one exception is when pan frying the steak, I like to add a smashed clove of garlic and some sprigs of fresh thyme to the pan along with some butter when I flip the steak. Then I can speed baste that flavored butter while the 2nd side cooks. But I don't always bother.

One time I was at a party and I thought I'd get some prime top sirloin from Costco and really season it right and cook it right. I was really careful with adding just the right amount of salt and just the right amount of black pepper (I naturally tend to put too much of both). Then I really tried hard to cook it just right, resting etc... (when everybody at the party wants to eat the meat right off the grill). Then sliced it and offered it to the diners. Now just about all night long I heard people asking me "that steak was absolutely delicious! What kind of rub did you use" or "you absolutely have to share your recipe for that steak" etc... : people thought I had some kind of secret spice or secret recipe or something. I was quite proud. The only recipe was S&P, just using the exact right amount and cook it to just the right temperature. I've made many steaks with fancy spices, homemade rubs or store bought rubs and nobody ever noticed. But that simple good quality steak seasoned and cooked just right, everybody noticed!

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

mrdecoy1 said:


> Good points French Fries I need to get a great steak and do things the way I have been so I know if it's me or it's the meat quality. Don't get me wrong, it's not awful it just doesn't have that extra level of quality i'm looking for. Still tastes "home made." Yesterday I tried this method I read where you sear the sides first actually holding it with tongs on a cast iron skillet then add butter and minced garlic. I think this was Ducasse? method, still underwhelming. Thanks.


Oh I also sometimes sear the sides especially with thicker steaks (1"1/2 or more). Funny I usually do that a bit later though, not first. Butter and garlic? Funny I just mentioned that in my previous post which I posted before I read yours. Also thyme. Sometimes I like to make a little brush out of several sprigs of thyme and just baste the steak with it while it's cooking. Gives it a subtle thyme flavor without taking away from the taste of the steak in my opinion. Then again I am in love with thyme.


----------



## thecytochromec (Jan 16, 2013)

I personally feel, just as in all cooking, the quality of your ingredients make the dish. Fortunately, cows are in year-round in Texas. For choice and prime meat I use a seasoning which is made locally, it does not have kosher salt. If i don't use that then I'll use kosher salt and freshly cracked pepper. I do not allow the steak to sit after salting as this abstracts moisture and I feel that I get crispier crust if i put it on the grill immediately after. I use cast iron grates (www.cast-iron-grate.com) when grilling or cast iron pan when doing a steak on a stove top. The only way to combat the heat capacity of a big hunk of meat is with ... well something with a considerable heat capacity itself. This gives you A broiler helps too but I don't have one. Know your heat, ensure its sufficient and somewhat uniform. Rotate ~ 90* once on each side and flip it once. Let it rest. After typing this, I saw FrenchFries said everything I did. Let the rules of "steaking" be reiterated as they are tried and true methods which will guide you down the path to bovine bliss.


----------



## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

I just read an article saying that growers are now adding anew drug that bulks up muscle faster on cattle at the cost of flavor. http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post=9d72a9ef-a970-4f39-b4c3-63af5d82c2e4


----------



## foodnfoto (Jan 1, 2001)

One thing you might consider is the source of your beef. If you are buying from Sam's Club or Walmart, look carefully at the labeling on your package.

You will notice that on ALL their meat packages a small print item that says something like: "enhanced with up to 10% flavoring solution."

Basically what this means is that they inject about 10% saline (salt) solution into the meat. That means they increase the weight of the meat by 10% with salt water or brine.

I've noticed this in all their packaged meat-beef, pork, chicken, turkey etc. 

Some meats even contain more than 10% added saline.

If you want a flavorful steak, buy choice beef from a reputable butcher shop and follow FF's advice.


----------



## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

I buy grass fed/finished 3 weeks on grain direct from the farm, $2.25 a pound to the farmer then I think it was 40 cents a pound for cutting/wrapping. Grower picks it up and delivers to my front door. The best beef I have ever had.


----------



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

You can't buy Prime and it wont make a difference anyway


----------



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Most of the chains buy from I.B.P  they are the biggest meat puveyor, then comes Cargyle.  IBP is owned by TYSON.. The key is how kot is your cooking source. Hotter the better


----------



## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

1. Besides a great meat, which of course is the main ingredient, a well seasoned grill or grill pan will help a lot. That means a carbon layer, the oldest the better. My grill pan looks dirty but the taste's pretty good. A steak on a wood grill is difficult to do properly. It needs a lot of knowledge about fires and temperatures.

2. Once the grill is hot enough, very hot, I use the steak's same fat for seasoning. Not oil or butter. Lard is good too.

3. I do the steak turning it 90°. It helps a better presentation and even cooking.

4. Balsamic helps flavouring any "weak" steak. But, as FF said, S&P should be enough if the meat's good.

5. Pan seared steaks, oven finished, are not acceptable in my amateur world. A flat pan will fry the meat.

6. Never tried Sous -Vide grilled steak. Out of my reach.

7. A steak can be thin, 3/4", and even so, taste glorious. This one, 250 grams T-Bone with baked potatoes was good enough:





  








14sla1s.jpg




__
ordo


__
Feb 16, 2013


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

ED BUCHANAN said:


> You can't buy Prime and it wont make a difference anyway


I buy Prime (sometimes) and yes, it does make a pretty big difference.

Here in SoCal you can buy prime from Gelson's and from Costco.


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

MaryB said:


> I buy grass fed/finished 3 weeks on grain direct from the farm, $2.25 a pound to the farmer then I think it was 40 cents a pound for cutting/wrapping. Grower picks it up and delivers to my front door. The best beef I have ever had.


In my experience grass fed finished with grain, even if it's just 3 weeks, tastes pretty much like grain fed. Real grass fed though is a completely different story.


----------



## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Why not?


ED BUCHANAN said:


> You can't buy Prime and it wont make a difference anyway


And why will it not make a difference?

Inquiring minds want to know....


----------



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Costco here is a grade above horsemeat


----------



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Pete if he said Prime well aged then yes otherwise I do not find that great a difference as most of meat today is treated anyway.


----------



## vic cardenas (Nov 11, 2012)

The best steaks I've had and made were seasoned simply with "Sal Grosso" (very course sea salt) and nothing else. The perfect distribution/spacing of crystals takes practice though.


----------



## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Posted by *French Fries* 


> I buy Prime (sometimes) and yes, it does make a pretty big difference.
> 
> Here in SoCal you can buy prime from Gelson's and from Costco.


If you still live where I think you live, your best sources for aged Prime are probably _Marconda's_ and _Huntington Meats_, both in the Farmer's Market; _Harvey's Guss_ in "BH Adjacent;" and McCall's in Los Feliz. _Lindy and Grundy_ (Fairfax, N of Melrose) is worth a shot too, but they're all about grass fed.

BDL


----------



## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

There are only a few rules to grilling steak as well as it can be grilled. To my mind, the Five Commandments of great, grilled steak are:

Thou shalt season before cooking;
Thou shalt use a clean, well lubricated, pre-heated grill, hot enough to sear;
Thou shalt use the right amount of heat for the thickness of the steak (which sometimes means searing over high heat and then cooking through over lower heat, or even the other way around);
Thou shalt not overcook; and
Thou shalt allow an appropriate rest after cooking.
_(Note that if you want to memorialize these, you'll only need one stone tablet to fit five commandments_).

Obviously, you can't make _great steak_ unless you start with _great beef_. You should be able to make "steak house" quality with good Choice (there are actually several sub-grades of Choice), "Certified Angus," or several other grades which are less than Prime or one of the "Kobe" types. Prime and Kobe are all very well and good, but can be a little over-marbled for some people's tastes with certain cuts -- particularly rib. That said, if you can find and afford _dry aged_ Prime or Kobe give it a whirl.

You can't really do a good job of dry aging yourself; or at least, refrigerator dry aging at home is NOT the same thing as real dry aging. But if you have a vacuum sealer or buy in cryovac "packer's" bags, you can wet age pretty well. It's as good as home dry-aging, maybe better, and a lot easier.

Salt or salt and pepper are fine, but they're not the be all end all. There are plenty of more complicated rubs which work as well or better. It's my impression that most really good steak places in California use rubs with more than two ingredients. I use something I call my "basic beef rub."

*Basic Beef Rub*

_Ingredients:_
• 1/2 cup Diamond kosher salt
• 1/4 cup sweet or smoked paprika
• 3 tbs coarsely fresh ground black pepper
• 3 tbs paprika,
• 2 tbs mild chili powder, or 2 tbs ground chipotle chili, or 1 tbs chile de arbol or cayenne pepper
• 1 tbs granulated garlic
• 1 tbs granulated onion
• 2 tsp dry Colman's or other hot mustard powder
• 1/2 tsp dried sage
• 1/2 tsp dried thyme

_Technique:_

Mix all thoroughly.

If you like, you can grind it in a blender or spice grinder if you prefer a "dust" style rub.

As a general rule of thumb, when using salted spice blends, use an amount appropriate to salt the dish. Here, the rub is about half salt, so you'd want to use about twice as much rub as you'd use plain salt.

_Note: Double or even triple the recipe for the rub. It keeps well, is useful on grilled beef and lamb, and quite good on popcorn._

Please understand I'm not saying you need to or even should use a rub as complex as mine, just that you can use one if you want to. Limiting yourself to salt alone or salt and pepper are preferences, not requirements. For what it's worth this rub has won a LOT of steak cooking contests.

You do want to salt adequately before cooking, and you don't want to salt too far in advance, but you don't have to wait to the last minute either. Salt won't "pull the moisture out of the meat" if you apply it a half hour in advance. In any case, losing a little moisture to salt is no big thing. Don't be like Alton Brown, think it through. Despite the "conventional wisdom," if drier, denser meat was such a huge problem, kosher meat would suck (it doesn't), and no one would dry-age.

A brief and simple marinade is neither out of line nor necessary. I use about 30 minutes in a splash of wine and Worcestershire while the steaks are temping. I don't wipe the steaks off either. Searing a steak is not as delicate an operation as getting crispy skin on fish (which should be dried before oiling and cooking), but I usually cook over a live, wood fire.

If you're interested in pan-broiling (aka pan-roasting) a steak, you might want to take a look at _Steak With a Pan Reduction
Sauce_ for the technical basics.

BDL

PS. _The Basic Beef Rub recipe is my original creation. It is also posted on my website, CookFoodGood. If you want to share it do so, but please stay consistent with the Creative Commons rules posted there. _


----------



## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

This still has the grass fed flavor but not quite as lean. That is the reason for finishing on a mix of pasture/grain. They actually choose what they eat the last 3 weeks, grain is available but they are still on pasture. Trust me, it blows away grocery store beef. Everyone who has had it wants to take some home from my freezer.


----------



## linecook854 (Feb 13, 2013)

How our steaks were cooked in a high end restaurant I work in:

1.) Season heavily with kosher salt and fresh cracked pepper (You'll be shocked to see how much seasoning actually goes on, 100% of each side is coated as you loose a bit during the cooking process)

2.) Add to really hot cast iron pan (on induction cook-top) with lots of oil that is just starting to have tiny whisps of smoke.

3.) Let it sit like 15 secs then tilt the pan and baste the steak in the hot oil repeatedly, constantly ideally. This step is this most important and a skill that takes some time to master. The whole point is to direct the oil at the thickest part of the steak, as this will cook it faster but most importantly it will cook really evenly. It should look like a slow roasted item with a very small temperature gradient (think all red as opposed to brown, pink then red gradient as you slice it open). This method also adds a unique type of char to the meat, tastes differently (I think better) and looks better than something put under a high temp broiler or straight cast iron. You use a lot of oil with this method, much, much more than you would if you were to cook them the traditional way in a pan. You need something with a high flash point and neutral flavor, canola or grapeseed, even refined peanut. It's OK if while you baste not all of the oil hits the thickest part of the steak as long as most of it does.

4.) Once halfway cooked, flip over (once) and repeat on the other side.

5.) When you are about 60 secs away from your desired temp, dump out the oil. Add a good amount of cold butter and herbs (thyme, rosemary, sage, shallots, fresh bay leaf, garlic cloves but only if they are in the skin) and baste constantly until you reach your desired temp. You can do this either on the heat or off the heat depending on how hot your pan is, deep brown butter is great but that razor thin line to black butter is not so good. Don't add too many herbs, a little goes a long way. Shallots and thyme are the classic combination most French cooks use.

6.) Use your tongs to transfer to a resting warm resting place, rest heavily as this method cooks aggressively. Let most of the butter drip off the steak.

7.) Slice if necessary and transfer to warmed serving plate. Don't worry if the center is not super hot, we rested some steaks 8 mins purposely, and these were not large steaks.

This method requires a little practice but is so fun to use! The oil basting is the most important but the butter basting is the frosting on the cake, Some line cooks altered it slightly (didn't dump out the oil before adding the butter which resulted in a slightly different type of "foam", I do this sometimes at home as it works well too. Others "flashed" the steaks in a super hot oven for 20 secs after resting and immediately before plating as to just get the surface hot). You can tweak the method as needed and not everything is going to go perfect, it usually doesn't in a restaurant setting. Scorched herbs and shallots, black butter and under cooked steaks are going to happen, live and learn. They'll still taste great trust me, no customer ever noticed once. Practice your temps more with this method as the finger touch isn't always 100% effective especially with this technique as the meat seizes up quite a bit while being oil basting thus giving a more done feel. Buy a cake tester and use this to gauge but please don't use a thermometer, it bleeds out too much, a cake tester lets practically zero fats out. We used this method on a variety of steaks (dry aged, wet aged, grass fed local beef, prime feedlot beef, every cut you commonly use like filets and ribeyes but also lesser known cuts like flat irons and coulottes). If eating the fat is your thing (it's not mine) it gives it a wonderful crisp effect especially on ribeyes. All in all after my extremely long, rambling post I think this is the best method for cooking steaks. That being said there is more than one way to skin a cat and I often enjoy nicely marbled cuts on the grill! It's the cook that ultimately determines the result, the method of cooking is only the tool.


----------



## mrdecoy1 (Jan 17, 2012)

Interesting, can you give me an idea of what a "lot of oil" is? how many tbs? and you are saying to tilt the pan to keep the oil right on the steak? also what do you mean by using a cake tester? can you explain? Thanks!


----------



## linecook854 (Feb 13, 2013)

mrdecoy1 said:


> Interesting, can you give me an idea of what a "lot of oil" is? how many tbs? and you are saying to tilt the pan to keep the oil right on the steak? also what do you mean by using a cake tester? can you explain? Thanks!


The amount of oil depends solely on the size of the pan as tilting the pans to the side determines how much oil pools. You need enough oil to thoroughly baste the steak with a large basting spoon (pro chefs have one, sometimes referred to as a saucing spoon) or a serving spoon for a home cook. I would estimate close to a cup of oil in a 10" pan perhaps? I'm not too good at estimating. You are not tilting the pan to keep the steak in the oil, quite the opposite. Put the steak in the pan near the edge of the pan farthest from you. Tilt the pan towards you so the oil pools closest to you. Baste the steak by tossing the oil from the pool onto the steak, don't place it too far away and don't use too big of a pan. You don't want the steak sitting in the pool but the closer it is the easier it will be for you to baste effectively. This method takes practice as your get more confident the more aggressively and precisely you will baste you steak. On the line many cooks used lots and lots of oil, more than needed, but the amount doesn't really matter so long as you can thoroughly baste it, like giving it a shower with the water being turned on and off repeatedly. Again, you must direct the oil at the thickest part of the steak as this will cook it evenly. Some oil will go run over the thinner parts which is perfectly fine. Be sure to put the pan back flat on the burner so you don't loose too much heat, you should still be able baste decently with enough oil when the pan is flat. Sorry for the long explanation but it's hard to describe accurately without showing someone in real life.

As for the cake tester this is a trick most cooks use in high ends restaurants (surprisingly it's unheard of in less expensive restaurants for some reason). Stick a cake tester into the thickest part of the steak, or fish or whatever you are using, count to five, and put the tester under your bottom lip or on your wrist. How cool or hot the metal tester is tells you what temperature the middle of the protein is at. We use these two body locations because they are more sensitive to heat than any other places. A cold tester means the middle is raw, just starting to feel a tingle of warmth is rare/med. rare, only slightly warm is about med rare, warm is medium, very warm is about med. well and hot is well done. Remember your body temp is 98.6 degrees. The cake tester method is the best method IMHO because no juices are lost when you prick the protein even a dozen times, it's faster than a thermometer, and it never gives inaccurate readings like a badly calibrated thermometer. It does need some practice to master (remember there will be carry over when its done resting) but I and many linecooks who are good with this technique swear by it. You need to be diligent as to where you stick the tester, touching a hot pan with the tip with give a false reading and not touching the place of the needle to your lip where it was in the middle of the protein will give an off reading. You will noicet if you slide the length of the needle tip across your lip you will feel the temperature gradient from hot to warm from the outside to the inside.


----------



## mrdecoy1 (Jan 17, 2012)

Very interesting thank you! you should have a You Tube channel and show this stuff. Or sell some DVD lessons, I have learned most from real pros that work in real restaurants versus these web "chefs" that order a jacket and hat on the internet and deem themselves a "professional." Another question, for me it sounds like it could be a very greasy steak no?


----------



## linecook854 (Feb 13, 2013)

No its not greasy, no oil penetrates into the steak. When you baste with butter let some drip off as this will not look so good on the plate.


----------



## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

An interesting method I have used a few times is deep frying steak, gets a wonderful crust. I use a 325 degree oil temp when I do it.


----------



## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

@linecook854: sir, respectfully, to me it seems like you're just frying the steak. Not in ages a steak like that would be accepted in my country (Argentina).


----------



## linecook854 (Feb 13, 2013)

ordo said:


> @linecook854: sir, respectfully, to me it seems like you're just frying the steak. Not in ages a steak like that would be accepted in my country (Argentina).


Like I said there is more than one way to skin a cat, I do enjoy some steaks prepared in a variety of ways myself. It is widely accepted by professionals as this is a classic French way of cooking steaks as well as scallops, poultry and just about any other protein. Not to mention this technique (called arrosser) is used in many of the finest restaurants around the world to cook steaks and produces wonderful results. After eating a steak cooked like this I am a firm believer.


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

linecook854 said:


> this is a classic French way of cooking steaks


AFAIK the classic french way is to speed baste with butter, not oil - so the temp is probably much lower and you're not really frying per se.


----------



## linecook854 (Feb 13, 2013)

French Fries said:


> AFAIK the classic french way is to speed baste with butter, not oil - so the temp is probably much lower and you're not really frying per se.


Agreed that butter is one classic French way (not "the" classic way) to cook steaks but arrosser is not limited to butter. Any sort of fat such as duck, roasted sesame oil, etc. could be used to finish basting in the modern kitchen, but yes, butter is more in line with classical technique. I believe arrosser means literally "baste scallop in butter" but the technique is used in many forms in a professional kitchen, the main goal being basting a protein in fat to cook faster and add flavor. In professional kitchens the technique is usually used in a two step process. The hot oil is to cook a steak very quickly and evenly (especially helpful with bone-in steaks) and the butter is to finish and add flavor. There is no need to cook steaks quickly for a home cook so the two step process isn't necessary in home kitchens.


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

You're right, _one, _not _the_ classic French technique.

So when cooking bone-in steaks you baste mainly the bone area? And you lift the pan so the bone is always closest to the heat?

_Arroser _means to water: to water plants, the lawn, etc... so basically to cover with liquid. In fact I didn't know you could use it for basting a steak. You can also say "Il faut arroser ça" (_we must water that_) - meaning we need to drink to celebrate (an occasion).

One technique I learned in France for really good grass fed beef is to treat it almost like venison. Many Americans would probably consider this not even undercooked, but simply raw - but it's really incredible if you have a really good grass fed steak (grass fed being, like venison, much, much leaner). For a 1" thick steak: medium hot pan, film with oil, add steak for about 20 to 30 seconds. Add a tsp of butter to the pan, flip the steak, wait another 20 seconds, put a tsp of butter on top of the steak and serve. Some people like to eat the steak as is, unseasoned, but personally I like to add a little bit of salt. No pepper. The steak is pretty much raw and cold, with the surface lightly seared.


----------



## linecook854 (Feb 13, 2013)

French Fries said:


> You're right, _one, _not _the_ classic French technique.
> 
> So when cooking bone-in steaks you baste mainly the bone area? And you lift the pan so the bone is always closest to the heat?
> 
> ...


Yes, baste near the bone area as this is where the heat would be sucked out during cooking. No, on the line we did not tilt the pan so the bone was nearest to the heat. I can imagine it would help slightly though.

As for the term I am not a speaker of French. However arroser (or arrosser as one French chef spelled it, incorrect?) in culinary terms meant to baste in fat (oil or butter depending on what was being cooked) in our kitchen, also every other French kitchen in the area (NYC). For example if we needed to get something out fast our sous (a native French speaker) would yell "arroser the salmon!" which in turn we would baste the salmon in what little oil was in the pan. I assume it's one of those things "kitchen language" developed as in regular kitchens when someone said "fly that asparagus" it didn't mean literally to make it soar in the sky, it meant we need it done as soon as possible.


----------



## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

"Speed basting" is completely unnecessary when cooking beefsteak; a pointless waste of time and technique. 

For one thing, there's so much oil in the pan, the fond is unusable; and if you're not going to use the fond, why cook a steak in a pan at all?  

For another, as long you're not overcooking the meat to begin with why would you want to baste it during cooking?  Steak is not skin-on fish.  At least not the steak I eat.

BDL


----------



## jake t bud (Feb 25, 2013)

linecook854 -

Great advice. I saw an exec chef tell his meat station guy never to use oil to baste. If the pan is screaming hot, the oil will burn, leaving that flavor on the steak. He told him to always use clarified butter (because the burn temp is much higher) or let the steak render cooking fat from placing it on edge first. They would give it a nice sear (edge, both faces without cooking fat) throw in the oven, finish by basting with butter, crushed garlic and a sprig of thyme.  Sometimes they would either re-baste (steak) or flash in the oven (pork/ lamb chop) or pan before plating if it rested too long.

Thoughts?


----------



## linecook854 (Feb 13, 2013)

boar_d_laze said:


> "Speed basting" is completely unnecessary when cooking beefsteak; a pointless waste of time and technique.
> 
> For one thing, there's so much oil in the pan, the fond is unusable; and if you're not going to use the fond, why cook a steak in a pan at all?
> 
> ...


Again, for a home cook it's not necessary but certainly does produce great results. It's done professionally because it's faster (paying customers, not your family dinner) and it cooks more evenly (again desirable when paying $50 for a steak). But no, to say it's not good technique is not accurate. We purposely do not grill or broil steaks as the temperature gradient on steaks cooked this way are too large resulting in layers of different "doneness" and it's ideal for leaner cuts like filets and sirloins as the grill lets too much fat drain. The butter basting adds a small layer of fat to the surface desirable with leaner cuts.

Also, I think people are confused about the oil basting, it does not make it "crispy" like skin on fish. It adds a very nice, unique, even maillard. No sort of deep fried exterior by any means. Most people who have eaten a steak with this method notice how beautiful the steak looks, especially with the luster the butter adds.


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

boar_d_laze said:


> If you still live where I think you live, your best sources for aged Prime are probably _Marconda's_ and _Huntington Meats_, both in the Farmer's Market; _Harvey's Guss_ in "BH Adjacent;" and McCall's in Los Feliz. _Lindy and Grundy_ (Fairfax, N of Melrose) is worth a shot too, but they're all about grass fed.
> 
> BDL


BDL thank you so much... that's incredibly invaluable info!!

Marconda I like. I've had good piedmontese beef from them. Really good "fake" rib eye steaks (from the chuck). Nice hams, danish bacon etc...

Huntington Meats I'm not too sure about. I don't like the fact that they serve Harris ranch beef. If you've driven on the 5 from L.A. to San Fran, you've probably smelled the Harris slaughterhouse. Oh you've probably seen them, too, but at that point the smell was so overwhelming, your other senses didn't matter. The smell is putrid, the view of all that cattle on dry soil without an ounce of green anywhere to be seen, you basically have to remember to close all air intake in your car a few miles before you pass the slaughterhouses... otherwise you're screwed for the next 10-15 miles. How can anyone work there? How can anyone live in that neighborhood? Mystery to me. I realize that I've never driven past the other slaughterhouses, and have no way to tell whether they're better or worse... but just driving past that one is enough for me to decide I'll never have Harris ranch beef ever again if I can help it.

Harvey Guss I've heard about... but I've heard their beef is nothing exceptional... ??

McCall's is my pretty darn cool but incredibly expensive. Still, sometimes I'll buy their Berkshire pork... I still want to try one of their incredible bone-in rib eyes. $17.99/lbs is actually quite inexpensive when shopping at McCall. Have you been there recently? They've expanded and partnered with a baker I believe.... sell all sorts of uber-over-priced items such as Carnaroli rice or "La Baleine" sea salt.. that you can find for 1/3 or 1/4 of the price in stores less than 3 miles away. When I'm rich I'll buy ALL my meats at McCall's.

Lindy and Gruss... never tried those. I heard they buy the whole steer (vs McCall's who only buys the cuts they need) which is attractive to me. I need to pay them a visit.

I'm guessing I live where you think I do. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif


----------



## jake t bud (Feb 25, 2013)

boar_d_laze said:


> "Speed basting" is completely unnecessary when cooking beefsteak; a pointless waste of time and technique.
> 
> For one thing, there's so much oil in the pan, the fond is unusable; and if you're not going to use the fond, why cook a steak in a pan at all?
> 
> ...


I'm confused by this. Are you referring to basting a steak with a couple of tablespoons of butter/garlic at the end is a waste of time and technique? I've seen it in restaurants and have a splendid Jean-Georges Vongerichten recipe that suggests basting with butter. Is he "wrong?"


----------



## dutch oven (Mar 12, 2013)

I bought a nice porterhouse and I am going to try these methods


----------



## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

OK. This is something I said a while back in a thread discussing steak-houses. I still believe it to be true. 

... Big steak-houses have grills that can put out 4 digit temps, that give you a killer crust with a beautiful edge-to-edge red-pink inside. You can get the same result at home if you pull this trick off properly. Start with your steaks at room temp. Dry them as best as you can. Mix a batch of 50/50 sea salt / corn starch. Rub down the steaks, both sides. The salt draws moisture out of the crust, the starch dries it up. Put the steaks in your freezer on a raised rack for from 30 minutes to 45 minutes, no longer. While waiting, get your grill screaming hot. Pull out the steaks and put them immediately on the grill and close it up. Don't even think of opening up the grill for 4 minutes with larger hotter grills, 5 minutes with smaller grills. Very quickly open the grill and flip the steaks, close the grill. Repeat for 4 or 5 minutes. Pull off the steaks and let them rest. That timing should give you perfect rare steak-house steaks. YMMV. 

Other than grain-type, I've never been able to tell the differences in sea-salt and kosher-salt. I'd love to see someone blind taste them picking out either one. I love fresh-ground black pepper; rainbow peppercorns from _Trader Joe's_ in it their own grinder. My favorite seasonings are from _Webber_; _Chicago Steak _and_ Veggie Grill._ I splash the meat with olive-oil and Worcestershire sauce, then sprinkle with each. 

This evening after prepping/cooking up a big freaking mess for a church/shelter thing, I grilled up four(4), yes four(4) psmos for the staff that helped me. I trimmed them out and rolled/tied the ends up to make them even. I seasoned them as I said before. I did not cut them into individual steaks. I grilled them as giant steak-loins. It was kinda gutsy but turned out really well. My grill of choice was a $100 _Char-Broil_ gas jobbie, just like I have at home. On this went my cast-iron grill plate. After 5-minutes of warm-up it was screaming hot. Two(2) at a time the loins got a 2-minute sear on three(3) sides, full heat. Then they each got 3-minutes lowest heat on those same sides. After resting 7-8-minutes they were cut up. Each serving was globbed with a nice herbal butter that we made ourselves. Yes, we actually made our own butter. Shake the bageebies out of heavy cream in a jar technique. Herbs were thyme and rosemary. We also made a basil/roasted garlic spread. Anyway ... there were no survivors ... meat-wise that is. 

_Pretty damned cool way to eat for shelter workers huh? LOL. _


----------



## linecook854 (Feb 13, 2013)

Jake is a said:


> linecook854 -
> 
> Great advice. I saw an exec chef tell his meat station guy never to use oil to baste. If the pan is screaming hot, the oil will burn, leaving that flavor on the steak. He told him to always use clarified butter (because the burn temp is much higher) or let the steak render cooking fat from placing it on edge first. They would give it a nice sear (edge, both faces without cooking fat) throw in the oven, finish by basting with butter, crushed garlic and a sprig of thyme. Sometimes they would either re-baste (steak) or flash in the oven (pork/ lamb chop) or pan before plating if it rested too long.
> 
> Thoughts?


Jake is a,

It all depends on what oil you are using. Canola, Peanut, Soybean, Grapeseed and Safflower oils all have similar if not better smoke points than clarified butter (around 475) so it wouldn't really make any difference. Butter costs a lot more than oil not to mention the labor costs involved especially when you need large amounts. For what it's worth, most high end places are using canola oil for sauteing anyways. We used a blended canola, grapeseed mix for pan searing our steaks.

As for searing fat-less, yes this works. Not so much as it renders it's own fat but more-so because the high heat won't allows things to stick terribly, don't ask me how it just does LOL. This works on a hot grill too. Many line cooks throw salmon on the grill with no oil and it doesn't stick. Have seen pork tenderloin thrown in an oil-less pan with no stickage, also very lean. I sear short-ribs everyday with no oil (albeit these do render their own fat).

To rebaste or flash in a hot oven? Flashing. Rebasting would take too long (more pans and burners during service too!) not to mention you're costing more per steak with the extra butter, shallots, herbs, etc.


----------



## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

I'm really curious here. What are these _"labor costs"_ that are involved when using butter? 

Stuff doesn't stick to pans or grills when no fat-type is used because that part of whatever the stuff is that hits the pan or grill caramelizes, and releases itself from the pan or grill. Even if you drench stuff in oil, fat, butter, lard ... whatever ... it's got a really good chance of sticking until this release happens. I kinda thought that was in Cooking 101.


----------



## colleens (Feb 18, 2010)

I am curious as to the opinions of Cheftalk.com community members have to say about this particular claim which is flying around Pinterest;.

"Unbelievable. Will never grill again" The secret to how steakhouses make their steaks so delicious - it is true. No more grilled steak."

http://whitsamusebouche.com/blog/2011/12/08/restaurant-style/

My first thought is that temperature is easier to control in an oven than on a grill, but that it's hard to match the smoky flavor a real charcoal grill adds to a steak.

Thoughts?


----------



## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

I cook steaks similar to linecook. I don't use as much oil, and don't baste with the oil...but always finish with butter/herbs/garlic and baste away. Hot, foaming butter is your friend. It is sometimes referred to as the "Ducasse" method and a google search should give you some pointers. 

A hot wood/charcoal grill is great as well...different than above but still can be great. Anyone that tells you there is only one "best" way to cook a steak is wrong. There are dozens...find one you like and do that. I would start with the method above. 

And hey, the number one rule, there is no cooking method substitute for quality of ingredients. You can use all the technique in the world, if you start with a subpar steak, your steak will be subpar. Prime absolutely makes a difference (except for filet lol, but if you are cooking filet then there is no hope for you  ), though you can make a great steak using choice or even grass fed. Grass fed is leaner and "gamier," but I happen to like the taste a lot. Some people don't. 

A place I worked at we used this method. High heat, bit of oil in the pan (we used really nice copper all-clad pans...beautiful and heavy) and sear on one side. Flip, sear for a min, then pop in the oven. When close to done, pull out of oven, kick out the fat (into our grease buckets) and a good bit of softened butter and herbs. We used to mash and rub a clove or two of confit garlic on the steak as well, then baste, baste, baste, baste the bone, flip, baste, baste, etc. Move to resting rack, pour hot flavored butter over the steak, rest. Then carve, serve, etc. 

I can attest that this produces a great quality steak. If you go out to a fancy restaurant, this is probably how they cook your steak (actually, they probably sous vide it, then finish by basting and searing in a pan, but I digress). If you go to a steakhouse, they probably use an upright broiler...but most of the high end, famous chef places in the country use this method for meat.

I personally don't like the butter only method, as I think the butter gets black and bitter, and I don't like the dry method, because I think you need that bit of fat to get an even sear. We would often pour off the fat from the pan if it was rendering too much or there was too much in the pan, to stop the protein from pan frying.


----------



## dutch oven (Mar 12, 2013)

I did a modifed version of some of these above methods.  I mixed some evoo, fresh thyme, fresh  rosemary and diced garlic with some sea salt and pepper.  I brushed the mixture on the porterhouse and then let sit out for a coupple of hours.  When cooking time came, I got my cast iron grill pan nice and hot- removed and garlic or trace of the herbs and cooked medium rare- came out great- although it did stink up the house a bit.


----------



## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

062.JPG




__
petalsandcoco


__
Apr 1, 2013












  








063.JPG




__
petalsandcoco


__
Apr 1, 2013












  








064.JPG




__
petalsandcoco


__
Apr 1, 2013








Filet mignon 1lb

1) Hot pan with olive oil & butter , salt & cracked pepper

2) Sear the meat & baste with liquids from pan

3) Place in oven for 375 . Cook 12-15 minutes. Let rest then slice.

There is nothing wrong with grilling a steak, I find for myself that I have more control over the heat when it is done this way and yet nothing that beats the aroma and flavor of a grilled steak.

We had this with an endive salad this Saturday . The endives were lightly cooked, set aside. Cooked onion & garlic . Then plated with cherry tomatoes, parlsey, and crushed pistachio, salt, crushed pepper and a drizzle of good balsamic.





  








057.JPG




__
petalsandcoco


__
Apr 1, 2013












  








058.JPG




__
petalsandcoco


__
Apr 1, 2013








Petals.


----------



## colleens (Feb 18, 2010)

Thanks for the good insight on grill vs. searing & oven prep.  @Someday - I agree, I don't think it's easy to label something as "the best way."  

Petals, your dishes are ALWAYS mouthwatering and your photos are professional quality.  I enjoy steak medium rare and the reddish center in the steak pic above is just perfect. 

Now I"m hungry for lunch.


----------



## jake t bud (Feb 25, 2013)

Petals - looks tasty. Nice salad.


----------



## linecook854 (Feb 13, 2013)

IceMan said:


> I'm really curious here. What are these _"labor costs"_ that are involved when using butter?
> 
> Stuff doesn't stick to pans or grills when no fat-type is used because that part of whatever the stuff is that hits the pan or grill caramelizes, and releases itself from the pan or grill. Even if you drench stuff in oil, fat, butter, lard ... whatever ... it's got a really good chance of sticking until this release happens. I kinda thought that was in Cooking 101.


Clarified butter, not regular butter. I was referring to the cost of canola oil vs. using clarified butter (already more expensive than oil pound for pound in it's whole form, not to mention the minor labor costs involved in the time it takes to clarify lots of butter plus the yield loss of the water and butter solids) when cooking lots of steaks in a professional kitchen.

Yes, I understand this but don't really know how the process that's going on behind it. Maillard obviously explains the color but not why it doesn't stick to a hot pan or grill.


----------



## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

NoPhotoMaiden_FS_Large.jpg




__
Iceman


__
Apr 1, 2013











  








Product_ClarifiedButter_Rest.jpg




__
Iceman


__
Apr 1, 2013







[h1]LAND O LAKES[emoji]174[/emoji] Bulk Clarified Butter, 30 lb. _(it also comes smaller)_[/h1]
This was just the first brand I found on a simple search. I've never seen any pro-kitchen spend the effort to make their own.


----------



## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

That salad rocks. I'm so into salads these days.

For a nice change, try caramelized endives. Little neutral oil, endives on the pan, little sugar. Spectacular.


----------



## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

All right I see I can in fact add something here that hasn't already been mentioned/clarified:

1)  You have to learn what an exceptional piece of meat looks like, whether rib, strip, petite sirloin, etc, etc.  I couldn't possibly describe it, i could point it out live, and this is something you learn through trial and error experience and, every importantly, remembering those experiences.  Good meat has a particular "range" of looks to it, it just does.

2)  Prime is not always the best choice you have at any particular market.  The famous La Freida of NY sells what they call the "top 5% of choice," they charge a fortune for it too, and you can find choice cuts locally that are possibly just as exceptional in flavor, texture, etc.

3)  How do you like your steak?  Without getting into any particular way other than how Ilike it, which is with a nice crust, let me describe how I accomplish it:

     I first put a dry skin on the meat by, hanging/racking in the fridge for 24hr.

     Then S+P with almost as much as linecook854 descibed.

     Using some form of animal fat, a goodly amount, heated to just smoking in a non-stick heavy pan I sear for a minute or so and reduce heat a bit to keep smoking at a bare minimum, or just below, then just cut the heat and coasting for a bit. DO NOT MOVE the steak!  Yet.

     Before flipping I jack the heat to high then flip and repeat, and just when I see the juice start oozing I go back to high, flip and then lower heat, while mopping up the fond just a bit, which actually has an unburned layer on top due to careful attention to heat and the non-stick pant.

     Now cooking is on lower heat, and I will flip a number of times depending on how thick the cut is.

4)  No we have the finishing.  If I cooked in beacon fat there is nothing left to do but let things rest, then dig in.  If using regular fat, and I find the cut a little bland, I just love to top with truffle oil, but if the cut reaks flavor you just can't justify defiling it in that way, though fresh butter is not disallowed here.  As some have put it, "Steak is steak," and that has a great deal of truth to it at least when cooking it in the way just described.

Rick


----------



## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

OK I can, somewhat, describe in words what a descent hunk of meat loks like - it conveyes to the observer a sense of suppleness and serenity.  It is not of any necessity pretty, it does not positively  matter whether the color is light or dark, or even shaded, nor is the "amount" of marbeling and indication.  And there I think is where words leave off.

Rick


----------



## foodlover42 (Mar 14, 2013)

I think this goes here...

Sous vided for about 3 hours and seared in a screamingly hot pan, flashed with a blow torch after searing.





  








IMG_0344.JPG




__
foodlover42


__
Apr 8, 2013


__
1


----------



## robbie rensel (Feb 21, 2013)

FoodLover42 said:


> I think this goes here...
> 
> Sous vided for about 3 hours and seared in a screamingly hot pan, flashed with a blow torch after searing.
> 
> ...


mmm.....Yum...perfect!


----------



## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

Steak my way. I tried a couple of times the shallow fry, oven and butter basting as recommended here by some chefs, but it didn't worked for me. Horrible 3 fats taste. So I did my classic pan grilled steak. This one was about 2" thick. Pan grilled (can't even show my carbonized pan) with it's own grease.





  








2e58hgk.jpg




__
ordo


__
Apr 10, 2013












  








2zowuna.jpg




__
ordo


__
Apr 10, 2013


----------



## jake t bud (Feb 25, 2013)

ordo said:


> Steak my way. I tried a couple of times the shallow fry, oven and butter basting as recommended here by some chefs, but it didn't worked for me. Horrible 3 fats taste.


Try this : toss the rendered steak fat after you take it out of the oven, wipe down the pan and replace the steak. Smash a garlic clove or two and throw it in with a sprig of thyme and baste with butter until done.

Remove from heat and rest with garlic and thyme. No butter. Not a clean beef taste, but delicious nonetheless.


----------



## chefbuba (Feb 17, 2010)

Nothing beats a good old fashioned steak cooked over coals.




  








image.jpg




__
chefbuba


__
Apr 10, 2013











  








image.jpg




__
chefbuba


__
Apr 10, 2013


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

chefbuba said:


> Nothing beats a good old fashioned steak cooked _over_ coals.


How and older fashioned steak cooked




  








coals.jpg




__
french fries


__
Apr 11, 2013








_on_ coals?


----------



## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

You don't see meat thrown directly on the coals that often, I think the last time I did that was with a flat iron or flank, can't remember.  But it was good.

mjb.


----------



## helloitslucas (Apr 8, 2013)

Not a very common thing to see. I went camping a few years back and was asked to bring some meat, but didn't need to bring cookware. I brought some flank steak and as we were getting the coals to temperature, my buddy realized he left his cast iron at home. Everyone freaked out when I tossed the meat directly onto the coals. Just needs a bit of a brush off after resting and it's good as can be! Everyone loved it.


----------



## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

FoodLover42 said:


> I think this goes here...
> 
> Sous vided for about 3 hours and seared in a screamingly hot pan, flashed with a blow torch after searing.
> 
> ...


The women in the house won't eat steak the kind of red ordo shows just above, but this is close to what I could possibly get them to go for. Sous Vide it is then coming up and thanks for showing.

Rick


----------



## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

My amateur question: isn't sous-vide steak a long and soft boiled steak? What's so special about this technique? Better taste? Better texture, tenderness? Is it worth for a home kitchen?


----------



## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

ordo said:


> My amateur question: isn't sous-vide steak a long and soft boiled steak? What's so special about this technique? Better taste? Better texture, tenderness? Is it worth for a home kitchen?


Ordo, for a rare steak such as you've done [I'm going to guess] it would not have any advantage. But fl42 is showing a medium rare (by my estimation) job, and to get that particular quality so thoroughly throughout is, I believe, the purpose of the sous vide process.

Rick


----------



## veghead (Mar 31, 2013)

Truly what dose “choice” or “prime” mean.  Yes it is graded by someone that looks at a single rib (most of the time it is a left rib and is 5th or 6th) for 30 seconds before the next cow passes him on the conveyor line.

I pull out me steaks out to dry and heavy salt about 20 minutes before cooking.  Right before I cook, I brush off the salt.  Cook on cast iron preheated to 400* in oven for 3 to 5 minutes a side.  Once cooked I brush with garlic butter and let it sit for about 2 minutes before serving.  If the cow is not mooing it is over cooked.  

I stay away from pepper as it will burn and can give an off flavor.  

If the stakes are wet when I get them I will place them single layer on a rack with some rock salt on the bottom container.  Place on the bottom self of the fridge loosely covered for a day will help age the meat if needed.  Long aging is better to do with larger cuts and cut down.

When I eat beef I want something grass feed.  When I eat chicken I want something that was free range.


----------



## foodlover42 (Mar 14, 2013)

Ordo,

For me, sous vide is useful for a couple reasons.  The first is pretty self-explanatory by the picture, and thats the ability to get that edge to edge zone at target temp.  In fact, achieving a target temp (med. rare for most, but YMMV) is as simple as choosing it and waiting for the bath to cook your steak.  I wouldnt say the taste or tenderness or texture is inherently superior to a steak cooked any other way, but having more of the cross-section overcooked and less of it at target temperature definitely results in a less tender, less juicy, less flavorful steak.  Its more that with a sous vide bath, I am guaranteed a perfect cook on every steak, every time.  The steak pictured is a 30oz boneless strip steak "for two" that would have been extremely time/labor intensive to cook that nicely in a pan or oven.  Instead, I dropped the steak in the bath, prepped and prepared all my sides and garnishes, and then quickly seared the steak and rested it while making a pan sauce. 

As a side note, its super convenient to prep all of my proteins, seal them in bags, clean down, and have an entirely food safe workspace from then forward.  I generally blanch the bags at about 175 degrees for about 60 seconds, which sets the outer layer of the protein and improves the shape and texture of the final product. 

Tl;dr: I like sous vide because its easy, incredibly effective, and allows me to focus my attention elsewhere while retaining an extremely high quality product for all of my proteins.  I dont think sous vide should be a substitute for learning traditional methods, but I do think it is an incredible tool.


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

ordo said:


> My amateur question: isn't sous-vide steak a long and soft boiled steak? What's so special about this technique? Better taste? Better texture, tenderness? Is it worth for a home kitchen?


The whole point of sous-vide is to get the perfect temperature for the WHOLE steak. You can then sear it to get the maillard reaction, so in the end you have about 1mm of golden brown delicious on either side and everything inside is at the exact same "perfect" temperature.





  








Beef-cooked-sous-vide-2.jpg




__
french fries


__
Apr 14, 2013








Compared to classic cooking techniques which are going to offer a gradient of temperatures from golden brown to rare:





  








steak4.jpg




__
french fries


__
Apr 14, 2013


----------



## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks folks for the explanation. Great pictures btw.


----------



## dean1969 (Jun 27, 2013)

I usually buy USDA Prime steaks from my local HEB supermarket.  The prices are reasonable and the quality is good.


----------



## timanator (Jun 24, 2013)

I'm a novice compared to alot of the chef's here, I season my steaks with Sea Slat and Pepper a few hours before. But when it's done, I melt a slice of wasabi or pepper jack cheese on it and let it melt before serving.


----------



## caunyd (Sep 5, 2013)

Hi guys. I'm a rookie aspiring steak chef. I plan on cooking steak by pan roasting and then completing the cooking in an oven. First I want to season the steak with salt, pepper, and butter, and then sear for 2-3 minutes on each side in a cast iron pan. After that, I will transfer the pan to a 375 degree F oven for 10-14 minutes. This way the meat gets a good brown crust on the stovetop, and cooks evenly through in the oven. From my research, this is how Laurent Tourondel of BLT Steak (my favorite steak restaurant) does it. What do you guys think?

What is the amount/ratio of butter, salt, and pepper I should use to season the steak? Do I only put the steak, butter, salt, and pepper together when I'm searing on the cast iron pan? Or should I let the meat marinate in the butter, salt, and pepper for some amount of time before I pan roast it? I'm a rookie so any detailed advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!


----------



## everydaygourmet (Apr 4, 2012)

@ canyd too funny, just posted a link to this thread on your thread!

Great article:

http://www.seriouseats.com/2011/03/the-food-lab-more-tips-for-perfect-steaks.html

Immediately after salting the salt rests on the surface of the meat, undissolved. All the steak's juices are still inside the muscle fibers. Searing at this stage results in a clean, hard sear.

• Within 3 or 4 minutes the salt, through the process of osmosis, will begin to draw out liquid from the beef. This liquid beads up on the surface of the meat. Try to sear at this point and you waste valuable heat energy simply evaporating this large amount of pooled liquid. Your pan temperature drops, your sear is not as hard, and crust development and flavor-building Maillard browning reactions are inhibited.

• Starting at around 10 to 15 minutes, the brine formed by the salt dissolving in the meat's juices will begin to break down the muscle structure of the beef, causing it to become much more absorptive. The brine begins to slowly work its way back into the meat.

• By the end of 40 minutes, most of the liquid has been reabsorbed into the meat. A small degree of evaporation has also occurred, causing the meat to be ever so slightly more concentrated in flavor.

Not only that, but I found that even after the liquid has been reabsorbed, it doesn't stop there. As the meat continues to rest past 40 minutes, the salt and brine will slowly work their way deeper and deeper into the muscle structure, giving you built-in seasoning beyond just the outer surface you'd get from cooking right after salting or salting the skillet.

Indeed, the absolute best steak I had was one that I had salted on both sides then allowed to rest on a rack overnight in the refrigerator uncovered. It appears to dry out slightly, but it's only superficial-the amount of drying that occurs from an overnight rest (about 5% moisture loss) is negligible compared to the amount of moisture driven off during cooking anyway (upwards of 20%, even more in the hard-seared edges). As the salt makes its way back into the meat, you'll probably also notice that it becomes a deeper color. That's because the dissolved proteins scatter light differently than they did when they were still whole.

Moral of the story: If you've got the time, salt your meat for at least 40 minutes and up to overnight before cooking. If you haven't got 40 minutes, it's better to season immediately before cooking.

Cooking the steak anywhere between three and 40 minutes after salting is the worst way to do it.

IME&O make the time to (coarse sea) salt the steak for @ least 30 minutes before pan searing.

Personally am NOT a fan of leaving steak out to come to room temp as we always finish in the oven. The sear is a step in the cooking process, not the entire process. Have found this especially true for thinner cuts and steaks, think skirt or hanger.

The correct amount of salt is proportional to the thickness of your steak. Don't know of any "set" rule for the correct amount salt.

Likewise with pepper, have seasoned before, during and after the cooking process, depends on the meal and specific tastes. Would recommend @ least a light "peppering" before cooking as a general rule of thumb.

Butter, well if your cooking for a non Kosher (Kosher?,substitute "Schmaltz" ) crowd we love to rest the meat in clarified butter to cover @ around 120-140F. Remember if your cooking a lot of steak all @ once AND you bath them all @ once the butter temp will rise accordingly. In this case found it best to butter baste, heavily on a tray and flip after 5 minutes.

You can flavor the butter as you wish. We favor a combo that "includes" coarse ground tellicherry, fresh rosemary, thyyme and fennel pollen in cheese cloth.

Cheers!,

EDG


----------



## caunyd (Sep 5, 2013)

EDG is there any general guideline for the salt, butter, and pepper (like a general amount in terms of cup, table/tea spoon, etc)? I'm a rookie, and the thing I'm most concerned about is making the steak too salty or "peppery".


----------



## vic cardenas (Nov 11, 2012)

I know I posted this before but I have to again... Sal Grosso. Brazilians know steak! I've cooked my steaks all sorts of ways including pretty much all the methods here. Sal Grosso and Sal Grosso only is the best way to do it. Sear over a high heat, like a cast iron pan or a charcoal grill and broil in the oven to finish, a small amount of oil in the pan. Best steak ever! Compare this steak with anything that has butter, compound butter, bercy butter, pepper, garlic, steak rub, anything. You name it...the steak with only Sal Grosso will win hands down. I pat some on in a consistently spread out pattern and push it into the flesh. The reason it is so good is because the large crystals burst in your mouth with the juices as you bite into them. You are only getting the flavors of the steak enhanced with the salt in a bursting sensation. The size of the crystals is the key to this. The spacing of the crystals, which is up to you, is how the flavors will come out. Just like salting anything, which everyone here should be a master of, not too much, not too little. If you master this, you will have the best steak ever, I promise.


----------



## caunyd (Sep 5, 2013)

I'm a rookie chef, so I don't know anything about over/under salting. Is there a general amount of salt I should use for a steaks that are 1 inch thick, 1 1/2 thick, and 2 inches thick?


----------



## vic cardenas (Nov 11, 2012)

Salting correctly is one of those things you have to learn to be a good cook. It's one of the basics and one of the keys of cooking. Over time, you will develop an intuition of how much salt every item you cook will need.


----------



## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

caunyd said:


> I'm a rookie chef, so I don't know anything about over/under salting. Is there a general amount of salt I should use for a steaks that are 1 inch thick, 1 1/2 thick, and 2 inches thick?


You will not get (fair) amounts rookie chef. Steaks are different, salts are different, people eating steaks are different. Just go there, buy some steaks, sprinkle some salt and pepper and begin your own _perfect steak_ experience.


----------



## caunyd (Sep 5, 2013)

There's got to be a general guideline. I mean there definitely should be an amount that I _shouldn't_ use, like 15 cups of salt, right? Of course everything is based on opinions and people are different, but more than under-salting a steak, I'm worried about making a steak that is too salty. At least if it's under salted, I can add more salt later. May I ask what your preferences are Ordo?


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

caunyd said:


> There's got to be a general guideline. I mean there definitely should be an amount that I _shouldn't_ use, like 15 cups of salt,


Of course, you can use your common sense for guidelines: 1 ton of salt for one steak is too much, and no salt at all is often not enough (although not always).

Other than that, there really aren't any guidelines, just use your palate. If all steaks tasted exactly the same, all salts had an equal salting power, same texture, same weight/volume ratio, same grain size, if we all cooked steaks the same way, and if we all had the exact same palate, then there would be guidelines. But that's not the case.

The way I've learned to properly season food was by underseasoning, then adding small amounts of salt and really paying attention to the difference every time. What you'll discover is that at first, you don't really perceive your food as "saltier", it's just "tastier". Keep adding. At some point, your food doesn't get any tastier and simply starts tasting "salty". That's when you've added too much. The key is to find the right point just in between "tastier" and "saltier".

Back when I decided to take cooking seriously I remember deciding to really focus hard on two major things: seasoning (and I'm only talking amounts of salt) and cooking (getting the right temperature).

I feel like I've made huge progresses, and often the only reason my food tastes good is because I start with good products, I cook them right and season them right, nothing more. On the other hand of the spectrum, I still sometimes overseason or underseason things, and I still sometimes overcook or undercook things. Less than before, but it still happens once in a while. I'm still learning, probably will continue until the day I die.


----------



## genemachine (Sep 26, 2012)

French Fries said:


> Back when I decided to take cooking seriously I remember deciding to really focus hard on two major things: seasoning (and I'm only talking amounts of salt) and cooking (getting the right temperature).
> 
> I feel like I've made huge progresses, and often the only reason my food tastes good is because I start with good products, I cook them right and season them right, nothing more. On the other hand of the spectrum, I still sometimes overseason or underseason things, and I still sometimes overcook or undercook things. Less than before, but it still happens once in a while. I'm still learning, probably will continue until the day I die.


 That's all there is too it, isn't it? You have to find that right point yourself, no recipe is going to help you there. That said, I mostly do not pre-season steaks at all when I have some good beef. Grill it, then finish it with a pinch of pepper and some good salt with interesting texture, i.e. Maldon or Fleur.


----------



## chrisbelgium (Oct 2, 2010)

caunyd said:


> I'm a rookie chef, so I don't know anything about over/under salting. Is there a general amount of salt I should use for a steaks that are 1 inch thick, 1 1/2 thick, and 2 inches thick?


Personally I always salt and pepper just seconds before frying a steak. How much? It seriously depends on the thickness of your meat. It's a good habit, especially when being a starting amateur cook, NOT to salt from a salt container when learning how much to put on. Put half a teaspoon in the palm of one hand and divide it sprinkling it on both sides of the steak, that would be more than enough for a steak thinner than 1 inch. Why measure first in your hand? When you sprinkle from a container, you will never have any idea how much you put on...

When cooking thicker steaks, say from around 1 inch thick on, salt exactly as just mentioned for a thin steak and cook. Let the meat rest, then slice the meat against the grain. Before serving, salt the slices on just one side, only using a little sprinkle of fleur de sel, again from your hand palm, no more than a few salt flakes per slice.


----------



## caunyd (Sep 5, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback guys. I guess I want concrete guidelines because this is the first time I'll be trying to prepare steak properly and I don't want to have to mess up 10 times before doing it right. I know it's a learning process, and everyone is different, every steak is different, and every salt is different, but if you all gave me your preferences as to salting and seasoning (and I realize, everyone would have a different opinion), I think I would do better than just winging it on my own, especially during my first time.


----------



## everydaygourmet (Apr 4, 2012)

Hey Guys,

great advice to the burgeoning Chef!

There is no set rule for salting steaks. Salts are all NOT created equal. As a general rule I use Baline on my sideboard and Maldon for steaks and roasts. The Maldon is a flaked salt.

I've also used house made flavored salts like porcini, rosemary, cherry, apple and JD wood smoked, truffle etc., do know there are commercial products available. Wild porcini goes for about 35/lb. 

Best advice I've read and can impart from experience is gain some, experience that is, get your hands dirty, learn by doing guarantee in a very short time you'll look back on this and laugh.

I complement you on your search and want to do a professional job for your employer. 

?, caunyd, so your a steak chef, at a chain or existing steakhouse restaurant? I ask as most existing establishments, Especially one that has the need to hire a steak chef would have their "house" seasoning blend AND would train you in how they want it used. My point is your concerns and anxiety may be for naught, hopefully.

Best of luck.

EDG


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

caunyd said:


> I don't want to have to mess up 10 times before doing it right.


In my experience, you have to mess up more than 10 times before doing it right. I still mess up from time to time. That's the process of learning.

Look at a young baby: they don't first learn the perfect walking technique, then start walking perfectly the 1st time. They crawl, they stand, they fall, they get back up, they fall again, hurt, cry, stand again, laugh, crawl some more, stand again, etc... that's the process of learning.


----------



## dcarch (Jun 28, 2010)

I am not sure how many accomplished chefs here will disagree with me.

Assuming you have a slab of great beef, 95% of the focus will be on texture control, 5% of the focus will be on salting (flavoring). 

Texture control will be about timing and temperature. Those are the two most important factors in making great steak.

dcarch


----------



## cacioepepe (Apr 3, 2011)

Here's an interesting blog relating to salting meats.

http://www.seriouseats.com/2011/03/the-food-lab-more-tips-for-perfect-steaks.html?ref=search


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

dcarch said:


> Assuming you have a slab of great beef, 95% of the focus will be on texture control, 5% of the focus will be on salting (flavoring).


Interesting - I'd love to hear from others on that topic. I call salting _seasoning_, not _flavoring_ (_seasoning_ supports and enhances the flavor of the steak whereas _flavoring_ changes the flavor of the steak, for example garlic, thyme, cumin would be flavoring).

IMO temp and seasoning are 50/50. Get one wrong and it doesn't matter how right you got the other. But seasoning is probably easier to get right than temp.

Your comment is making me thing though. I'd rather have an underseasoned steak cooked perfectly than a perfectly seasoned overcooked steak. On the other hand I'd rather have an undercooked steak seasoned perfectly than a salty perfectly cooked steak. I guess what I'm saying is that to me, underseasoning and undercooking are both lesser evils than overseasoning and overcooking.


----------



## caunyd (Sep 5, 2013)

dcarch said:


> Assuming you have a slab of great beef, 95% of the focus will be on texture control, 5% of the focus will be on salting (flavoring).
> 
> Texture control will be about timing and temperature. Those are the two most important factors in making great steak.


As a rookie, I can only postulate that temperature, texture, and timing are easier to do right because there's oven temperature, internal thermometers, and timers to work with. However, with salting/seasoning, as you have all mentioned, seems like more of an art and something that is learned in time.

French fries, I agree, and underdone and undersalted steak is better than an overdone/oversalted steak. Thanks for all of the great advice guys!


----------



## dcarch (Jun 28, 2010)

caunyd said:


> As a rookie, I can only postulate that temperature, texture, and timing are easier to do right because there's oven temperature, internal thermometers, and timers to work with. However, with salting/seasoning, as you have all mentioned, seems like more of an art and something that is learned in time.
> 
> French fries, I agree, and underdone and undersalted steak is better than an overdone/oversalted steak. Thanks for all of the great advice guys!


Thermometer, oven temperature dial, all can help, but we all know that steaks get messed up just the same. We all have been there, done that.

Flavor and taste and seasoning are all subjective, but not texture. You don't need to taste the steak, cut it open, and you know immediately visually something is not right.

dcarch


----------



## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

Of course, we start with a high quality steak, don't we? Cause in my experience the quality of the meat is xx% of the success. You put the number.


----------



## dcarch (Jun 28, 2010)

ordo said:


> Of course, we start with a high quality steak, don't we? Cause in my experience the quality of the meat is xx% of the success. You put the number.


IMHO, 95% of the success is to have a good slab of beef.

Then, 95% of that remaining 5% is about timing and temperature to get the right texture..

If a steak is done perfectly, with no seasoning whatsoever on it, give it to me, I will just sprinkle some salt and pepper on it, and it will be spectacular just the same.

dcarch


----------



## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

dcarch said:


> IMHO, 95% of the success is to have a good slab of beef.
> 
> Then, 95% of that remaining 5% is about timing and temperature to get the right texture..
> 
> ...


Concur 100%.


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

dcarch said:


> IMHO, 95% of the success is to have a good slab of beef.
> 
> Then, 95% of that remaining 5% is about timing and temperature to get the right texture..
> 
> ...


I agree 95%. But there's 5% of me that can't help but to disagree.... /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif To me that reasoning makes it sound like once you've bought a great steak, you've already done 95% of the work... but that's only true if you already know how to cook and season a steak. I think your numbers hold true as long as the cook doesn't stray too far from an ideally cooked/seasoned steak. 

I personally believe that the quality of the steak is very important when cooked/seasoned right, but not that important when cooked/seasoned wrong.

Think about it this way: would you rather have:

1) an exceptional quality steak completely overcooked and over salted?

2) a decent quality steak perfectly cooked and seasoned?

So one could argue that for a beginner, spending time perfecting their cooking time and seasoning chops are more important than buying quality steaks. Once you know how to cook and season very well, then buying quality steak starts to matter much more.

I once cooked and seasoned a steak PERFECTLY. I was at a BBQ party and everybody absolutely loved it and kept asking me for my rub recipe (it was salt and pepper). The steak was a very good quality steak. Later one girl from the party decided to reproduce my steak, and the only question she asked was where I bought it. I told her where to buy it. Her steak ended up sub-par. Because she didn't cook it right, and to a lesser extent, because she didn't season it perfectly. I feel like she'd have gotten a better result if she'd bought a "normal" steak and cooked and seasoned it perfectly.

Anyway I believe we most likely all agree, it's just a matter of how you look at the numbers, especially in the more extreme cases.

And dcarch, and ordo, I would eat any steak you prepare for me any day of the week. Ordo I know you probably have access to some of the best steaks in the world, and dcarch I know you'd make my plate look like a million dollar work of art. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif


----------



## dcarch (Jun 28, 2010)

I say, there is no skill that can make a bad steak taste good. However, you can make a bad steak into a good stew.

To make a good stew, good seasoning is 98% of the effort, 2% is in skill. I know people who can mess up this 2% effort and turn a stew into pure carbon. (Me, it happened to me. LOL!)

dcarch


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

dcarch said:


> I say, there is no skill that can make a bad steak taste good.


I believe the opposite is also true: there is no level of steak quality that will taste good with bad skills.


----------



## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

French Fries said:


> I believe the opposite is also true: there is no level of steak quality that will taste good with bad skills.


There's a reasonable percentage of failure when dealing with good ingredients that you will not find so indulgent when dealing with mediocre ones.

I mean: if i slightly overcook a fantastic steak, no big deal. But a tough, second-rate steak is unrecoverable.

Unless you make a stew. And even so...


----------



## vic cardenas (Nov 11, 2012)

dcarch said:


> IMHO, 95% of the success is to have a good slab of beef.
> 
> Then, 95% of that remaining 5% is about timing and temperature to get the right texture..
> 
> ...


I disagree...

I can take a pretty lame cut of beef and make a wonderful steak out of it, every time.


----------



## dcarch (Jun 28, 2010)

Vic Cardenas said:


> I disagree...
> 
> I can take a pretty lame cut of beef and make a wonderful steak out of it, every time.


That can be true too.

I routinely use London Broil sometimes brisket and make that into steak.

London Broil $1.98 a lb, v.s. brisket $3.99 a lb v.s. Porterhouse $10.99 a lb.

48 hours in my sous vide cooker, at 128F, Sear each side on cast iron skillet at 570 F for a few second. Fork tender London Broil beefy medium rare steak!

dcarch


----------



## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

Cheaters! Hell is waiting for you! And it's not a barbecue.

(Rhyme)


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Carne asada is now out of the fridge, still marinating but slowly coming to temp. Will grill in an hour, serve with.... gratin dauphinois. Talk about con-fusion cooking. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif That's what happens when a French person lives in Mexico - huh, I'm sorry, southern california (same thing, almost).


----------



## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

OK since last posting here I started what I hope will become the official Pot Roat cooking thread: http://www.cheftalk.com/t/80437/pot-roast-cooking

Not ready to continue there I will say that I tried several times to duplicate the results presented here for Sal Grosse, but came up somewhat short. Perhaps the originator of that thread can elaborate some on his technique.

In the quest for a perfect medium rare (the women of the house will tolerate no less in "doneness") I considered Sioux Vide but the $500+ investment seems a bit much at the moment, so I came up with a covered and stove-top heated-plate method that worked very well. With my glass-top electric I am able to control heat very well, and a near-through-and-through medium rare quality is fairly consistently obtainable.

Rick


dcarch said:


> That can be true too.
> 
> I routinely use London Broil sometimes brisket and make that into steak.
> 
> ...


OK since last posting here I started what I hope will become the official Pot Roat cooking thread: http://www.cheftalk.com/t/80437/pot-roast-cooking

Not ready to continue there I will say that I tried several times to duplicate the results presented here for Sal Grosse, but came up somewhat short. Perhaps the originator of that thread can elaborate some on his technique.

In the quest for a perfect medium rare (the women of the house will tolerate no less in "doneness") I considered Sioux Vide but the $500+ investment seems a bit much at the moment, so I came up with a covered and stove-top heated-plate method that worked very well. With my glass-top electric I am able to control heat very well, and a near-through-and-through medium rare quality is fairly consistently obtainable.

I do dream of SV treated brisket/London broil/pot roast and steaks in general though, not to mention seafood, and possibly everything else. ~~~~

Rick


----------



## chef torrie (Mar 1, 2011)

High heat baby. Super hot grill or broiler. Let rest. I rest my steaks at home for 15 20 minutes.


----------



## dcarch (Jun 28, 2010)

"------I considered Sioux Vide but the $500+ investment seems a bit much at the moment,---"

Many sous vide circulators are now less than $200.

"---High heat baby. Super hot grill or broiler. Let rest. I rest my steaks at home for 15 20 minutes.---"

With sous vide, there is no need for resting. Hot steak every time.

dcarch


----------



## mike9 (Jul 13, 2012)

I put my sous vide outfit together for @ $125.  I use a 7qt old school crock pot and a PID controller.  I'm thinking about the Anova immersion circulator for $199.  Then I can use a larger tub, or cooler to cook in.


----------



## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

dcarch, isn't that expensive vacuum-sealer costing as much as the bath an essential part, or can you do as well without?

Rick


----------



## dcarch (Jun 28, 2010)

Vacuum has nothing to do with the concept of sous vide cooking. It is unfortunate that the name "under vacuum" is used. 

You can use an open bag, just weigh down the bag so the water pressure can squeeze out most of the air to have better heat conduction.

Don't need to seal the bag. This way you can taste test the food while it is cooking and wash and reuse the bag for next cook.

dcarch


----------



## genemachine (Sep 26, 2012)

The point about the vacuum is to get the bag tight on the goods to be cooked. If you have air pockets, you get thermal insulation that you do not want.


----------



## tweakz (May 10, 2014)

.


----------



## chef torrie (Mar 1, 2011)

dcarch said:


> "------I considered Sioux Vide but the $500+ investment seems a bit much at the moment,---"
> 
> Many sous vide circulators are now less than $200.
> 
> ...


I'd much rather have a broiled/grilled streak then sous vide.

I've been over the whole sous vide thing for a while now. It's just overplayed in my opinion. Again, just my opinion. We sous vide some items at work, but it has its place.

There's a reason lugers, mortons, Ruth all use high heat broilers.


----------



## dcarch (Jun 28, 2010)

Chef Torrie said:


> I'd much rather have a broiled/grilled streak then sous vide.
> 
> I've been over the whole sous vide thing for a while now. It's just overplayed in my opinion. Again, just my opinion. We sous vide some items at work, but it has its place.
> 
> There's a reason lugers, mortons, Ruth all use high heat broilers.


That's exactly what I do with my steaks. Broil/grill/sear with that wonderful crust, after the steaks have been sous vided to perfection.

This is from Serious Eats:

_"If you've gone out to a fancy restaurant in the last five years or so, _*you've most likely eaten a protein that was cooked sous-vide in a water bath,*_ whether you knew it or not. The process of vacuum-packing meat and cooking it in a precise temperature-controlled water bath has revolutionized the way fine-dining restaurants are run."_

dcarch


----------



## tweakz (May 10, 2014)

.


----------



## chef torrie (Mar 1, 2011)

I can assure you that none of the afore mentioned steakhouse sous vide their steak.

Like I said I believe sous vide has its place, like what tweakz said with cheaper or tougher cuts it works well. Actually it works well with any cut. However, there is just no way I'm sealing up my porterhouse, ribeye, filet, etc and giving her a bath.


----------



## dcarch (Jun 28, 2010)

Chef Torrie said:


> I can assure you that none of the afore mentioned steakhouse sous vide their steak.
> 
> Like I said I believe sous vide has its place, like what tweakz said with cheaper or tougher cuts it works well. Actually it works well with any cut. However, there is just no way I'm sealing up my porterhouse, ribeye, filet, etc and giving her a bath.


With top notch chef skills and experience, top notch piece of prime dry aged meat, and top notch professional kitchen equipment, you can make wonderful steaks with or without using sous vide methods.

I always say, sous vide is "perfect steaks for dummies". It requires no skill to cook second rate meat to delicious end results.

Not here to promote anything, I came across these:

http://www.sousvidesupreme.com/en-us/chefs.htm

http://www.sousvidesupreme.com/restaurant_locations.htm

dcarch

Sous vide prime rib, notice zero bleeding of blood and juice, even without resting





  








PrimeRibPomegranateSauce_zps2c6610b1.jpg




__
dcarch


__
May 19, 2014












  








PrimeRibPomegranateSauce3_zpse4a22b48.jpg




__
dcarch


__
May 19, 2014


----------



## tweakz (May 10, 2014)

.


----------



## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

Tweakz, sous vide isn't a replacement for traditional cooking methods, it is another tool in the chefs arsenal. What exactly is "wrong" with this new cooking technique? The places that use sous vide are hardly supplied by minimum wage workers. 

To put it simply, there are things that can be done with sous vide that you can't do with traditional cooking methods. Why WOULDN'T you want to know more and try to utilize this method?


----------



## tweakz (May 10, 2014)

.


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

tweakz said:


> Sous vide is basically fast food:


Sous vide is hardly fast food. It's a cooking technique that was invented by a 3 star michelin restaurant called Trois Gros in France in the 70's. It was quickly adopted by other famous French chefs such as Paul Bocuse and Joel Robuchon.


----------



## heape89 (May 19, 2014)

MaryB said:


> An interesting method I have used a few times is deep frying steak, gets a wonderful crust. I use a 325 degree oil temp when I do it.


----------



## dcarch (Jun 28, 2010)

In this test of the many tests I have done:

One slab of corned beef, cut equally into two identical pieces. One piece went into sous vide cooker, the other braised the traditional way.

Braised - 29.84 oz start, came out to be 14.42 oz, a 51.68% shrinkage.

Sous vided - 29.98 oz start, came out to be 19.73 oz. a 34.19% shrinkage.

There is a 17.49% difference in shrinkage between the two methods.

The braised corned beef was falling apart, but not tender, you still have to slice across the grain.

The sous vided one was enjoyed pulled pork fashion, because it was truly tender.

The lesser meat shrinkage is a great advantage of sous vide cooking, considering how expensive meat can be nowadays. If we can just save 5% beef, that will be 2,000,000 fewer cows need to be slaughtered, which will offset any so-call plastic damage to the environment.

Waste of kitchen space?

Let me see. I sous vided eggs to pasteurize raw eggs for making ice cream, and carbonara, I sous vided heavy cream to make clotted cream. I sous vided milk to make yogurt, -----------.

And I am very puzzled why people think sous vided chicken means boiled chicken.

dcarch

Sous vided crispy chicken on wild rice risotto





  








chickenwildricerisotto_zpsfe9d5e76.jpg




__
dcarch


__
May 19, 2014


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

dcarch said:


> And I am very puzzled why people think sous vided chicken means boiled chicken.


I have to confess that before actually eating sous-vide cooked items in nice restaurants, when I first heard of the technique, it didn't sound appealing to me. The idea of stuffing my steak in a plastic bag and using all sorts of equipment to check and maintain a precise temperature does go against my caveman instincts.


----------



## tweakz (May 10, 2014)

.


----------



## chef torrie (Mar 1, 2011)

SV is definitely not a "new" technique.

As I said in an earlier post, it has its place, and can been fun to tool around with. I'm just not with stuffing a prime rib in a bag and a bath. 

I can roast a prime rib that looks as good if not better than that picture that was earlier posted. And no blood or juice? Uhm, I want "blood or juice" with my rib.


----------



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

tweakz said:


> sous vide is definitely a fast food technique - prove me wrong


I did. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif


----------



## dcarch (Jun 28, 2010)

Chef Torrie said:


> SV is definitely not a "new" technique.
> 
> As I said in an earlier post, it has its place, and can been fun to tool around with. I'm just not with stuffing a prime rib in a bag and a bath.
> 
> I can roast a prime rib that looks as good if not better than that picture that was earlier posted. And no blood or juice? Uhm, I want "blood or juice" with my rib.


The whole discussion really can be reduced to a few science facts:

1. Meat is not smart. It only understands temperature, whether the heat is from hot water or from hot fire, it can't tell the difference.

2. You can't heat water higher than 212F (normal pressure)

3. You cannot change conductivity of meat.

4. Meat gets cooked from raw to rare to medium to well to over cooked, depending on temperature.

5. Taste is subjective, some like the meat raw, and some like it well done. But very few like their meat cooked at 212F, and meat shrinks like crazy at 212F, that's why I am shocked at the comment above "Shrinkage doesn't mean loss of beef: it's loss of water" implying that shrinkage is no big deal.

6. To overcome the limitations of scientific laws, various techniques have been used to achieve the desired end results, especially the conductivity of meat, because the variables involved, such as start out interior temperature and thickness of meat. "Low & Slow" for instance gives time for heat to even out inside the meat. Still it is almost impossible to achieve complete even temperature control to the desired degree of done-ness. "Resting" is another technique to allow better temperature control, even that means the outside of the meat is going to get cold. Resting is recommended also to allow the re-absorption of "Blood & Juice". It is not a good sign to see a lot of blood and juice coming out of the meat.

Sous vide, by the very nature of physics, overcomes many of the above issues.

It make no difference of start out temperature of the meat or the thickness of the meat. As a matter of fact, I routinely sous vide a big thick 7-bone prime rib directly from frozen, no thawing needed. Once the cooking temperature is set, it is simply impossible to overcook or under cook. Timing is not critical either. When you cook a steak the normal way, one minute can mean a rejection from a customer. With sous vide, an hour here, an hour there, makes no difference. Resting is not needed either for juice re-absorption or for carryover heat.

Sous vide Fast food? I have no idea what that means. Automobile was invented because people were too lazy to walk. Sous vide was invent so dummies (like me) can make perfect steaks.

The several new circulator makers sold at least 20,000 units in a very short time even the units are not immediately available. It appears that there are people who feel their kitchens have room for this appliance.

dcarch


----------



## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

I must have missed the memo. That happens a lot, unfortunately, at my place.

_When did sous vide ever become "fast"?!?_

*TIA for the help here.​*


----------



## chef torrie (Mar 1, 2011)

Why you quoted me and gave me a science lesson I have no idea; because I already know the science of it. 

I simply stated it wasn't a new technique, and I'd rather roast my rib. 

What it comes down to I you prefer all your meat sous vide and I do not.


----------



## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

Tweakz, have you ever actually USED sous vide, or are you just going on what you think you know from reading about it? 

I'm sure Taco Bell uses boil-in-bag stuff. So what. They also use a deep fryer--does that mean anyone who isn't doing fast food can't use a deep fryer? Is a deep fryer only for lazy, inept cooks? 

Waste of space really got me--kitchens I've worked in professionally have used sous vide and chamber vacuum sealers. They are a space SAVER. Everything lined up in neat little bags, ready to cook, or already cooked, or marinating, or just being stored. Water baths being used instead of giant rondeus or hotel pans, less use of saute pans, etc. 

Most proteins that are cooked sous vide are cooked again in a pan to sear the outside and develop the maillard crust and reaction we all know and love. A sous vide steak can be grilled, or broiled, or pan roasted. 

Vegetables done sous vide are a marvel. They retain color, don't go mushy, and taste more "of themselves" than most other cooking methods. How much flavor and aroma is lost to the poaching water when cooking veg? Tons. The loss is minimized when sous vide is used. In fact, most attention is given to proteins cooked sous vide, but vegetables are a revelation. 

72 hour short ribs are not "fast food." Sous vide a brisket, a pork shoulder, a pork belly, or any of a hundred other things and tell me it is "fast." Ever had a tender, Medium rare short rib? How would you achieve that without sous vide? 

And yes, sous vide is a NEW technique, as I would say any technique that has only been around since the 70's (and only been popularized the last 10 years or so) new. Especially compared to wood fire, oven roasting, grilling, poaching, i.e. all out "traditional" cooking techniques. 

There was a time when gas ovens and stovetops were new too.


----------



## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

I love how much of the resistance sous vide applications come from people that "haven't tried it but don't like the sound of it." Well, I can't argue with that logic!

Tweakz, not to inject too much snark here, but I yeah, I would weight the public endorsement of the technique by numerous chefs who actually put their names and reputation out there to do so. As opposed a dismissal by somebody who refers to themselves by a name that usually implies that you need a hit of heroin. Just sayn'.

And, not to burst too many bubbles here, but grilling steaks "ain't all that." Especially in restaurant enviroment that is set up for it its not that difficult with even a small amount of experience. And believe me, I am not running down grill cooks, far from it. But lets be honest, what makes a great grill cook is not hitting the right temp, its organizing the thirty steaks they have grilling, resting and plating. The actual cooking of an individual steak is not a big deal, that is a very basic professional skill. If you think that as a chef or cook it is some sort of art or sign of great skill, then you probably don't need your hood, because smoke is getting vented up someplace else.

The main take away from this thread ought to be that there are numerous was to get at a good steak. Much of that is to personal taste. I would hope that people would feel free to grab what sounds appealing to them from all of the techniques and play around with them. I think another take away is that, especially for home cooks, there is a romantic attachment to the steak that is almost unique. That the whole process is almost (maybe more?) as eating the slab of beef. That is fine, it is in the end about what brings you joy.

For the pro cooks, just remember its about what brings your customers joy. When it comes to technique its about results, not about what makes you feel good as a cook.

Al


----------



## dcarch (Jun 28, 2010)

Chef Torrie said:


> Why you quoted me and gave me a science lesson I have no idea; because I already know the science of it.
> 
> I simply stated it wasn't a new technique, and I'd rather roast my rib.
> 
> What it comes down to I you prefer all your meat sous vide and I do not.


Sorry I got carried away with the "Science lesson".

I was reacting to your statement "And no blood or juice? Uhm, I want "blood or juice" with my rib."

Everything I have read and seen so far says to give the steak lots of resting time for the blood and juice to be re-absorbed and minimum blood and juice on you plate.

dcarch


----------



## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

AllanMcPherson said:


> But lets be honest, what makes a great grill cook is not hitting the right temp, its organizing the thirty steaks they have grilling, resting and plating.


This, this is who makes a $18/hr.


----------



## tweakz (May 10, 2014)

.


----------



## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

I suspect this thread is about to turn into something akin to a comic book fan forum discussing the outcome of a battle Thor and the Hulk. I am content to walk away at this point. 

That said, I really ought to add my business to Sousvide Supreme's directory of use. Get me some o' dat precise temp chedda.


----------



## chef torrie (Mar 1, 2011)

Agree to disagree. I never stated that SV was the oldest cooking method in the book, but your not going to convince me into calling it new. I have been using SV in a professional setting since I started cooking. There are many, many techniques\methods that are 3 or less years old that I have just began to play around with. You think Achatz would describe SV as new?


----------



## dagger (Feb 4, 2005)

Forget cooking, putting meat to fire is no trick. The big deal is aging the meat, I buy steaks then give them a quick hour freeze just to stop the juices from flowing. Then I'll vacuum seal in foodsaver bags and leave in freezer for months to year beforing cooking.


----------

