# Knife Sharpening Secrets - Japanese Knives



## kolokotroni (Mar 25, 2016)

Making a traditional Japanese knife is a process where no step is more important than the other. This process takes time, time that we sometimes think we do not have in modern society. But when a master does something, he takes the time to do it well and he will not sacrifice quality on the altar of speed.

There are two categories of traditional handmade Japanese knives: The Honyaki, meaning "true forged"; The Kasumi, referring to "Mist" or "Fog"; The Gyuto is in it's own category, because it is a nontraditional handmade knife.

Modern Japanese masters have reached perfection, changing not only the internal structure of the steel knife chef, but his geometry.





  








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kolokotroni


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[h1]*The shape of the knife blade and the inner steel structure define ways and methods of sharpening.*[/h1]


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

I think I speak for many when I say... what?


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## kolokotroni (Mar 25, 2016)

Dear Ser. 

Thank you.
I think that the knives as the people are very individual. Everyone has their own preferences and standards.
After the form knives are divided into two classes, the composition of steel: Stainless steel and Сarbon.
The approaches, methods and the desired result for them will be very different at one and toyzhe blade geometry.
Have you come across the term «kirenaga - 切 れ 長 - sharpness duration (time a knife stays sharp)»?


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## kolokotroni (Mar 25, 2016)

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kolokotroni


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(Japanese Knife Sharpening: With Traditional Waterstones, Rudolf Dick)


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## kolokotroni (Mar 25, 2016)

Structure steel kitchen knife is characterized primarily kinds of carbides, their size, the amount and uniformity of distribution, shape and hardness.





  








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kolokotroni


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(http://www.uddeholm.com/files/TB_grinding-english.pdf)

Тhe most expensive (unique) steels contain carbon nanotubes.
[h1]_DISCOVERY OF NANOTUBES IN ANCIENT DAMASCUS STEEL_[/h1]
http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/...880__springer_proceedings_in_physics_127_.pdf

http://img1.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/c/3//4171/4171040_reibold2006.pdf


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## mike9 (Jul 13, 2012)

Dude - welcome to Cheftalk /img/vbsmilies/smilies/drinkbeer.gif That said we're all knife knuts here so you're like preachin' to the choir.


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## kolokotroni (Mar 25, 2016)

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kolokotroni


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http://tojiro.net/jp/guide/material_steel.html
http://tojiro.net/jp/guide/material_stainless.html


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

This is kinda like camp (not the kind with fires and tents) hour at Second City TV.


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## masonrk (Feb 8, 2016)

Not quite sure my brain is properly consuming this data but it is interesting nonetheless. Welcome to CT, as Mike9 said, were all knife knuts here so the information is intriguing to say the least...


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## kolokotroni (Mar 25, 2016)

После того, как мы понимаем , что это сталь, вы можете начать урок №1. 
Спасибо за понимание.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Yes, to say the least.


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## kolokotroni (Mar 25, 2016)

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kolokotroni


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Mar 31, 2016








https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com/2015/10/30/burr-removal-part-1/


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

I do appreciate the videos in que in the previous, but the next video shows an important feature for power production.  You'll notice the grip does not employ the index finger, nor is the thumb wrapped tight.  Go play with it and develop understanding of this in terms of proper mechanics.


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## kolokotroni (Mar 25, 2016)

Thank you, you're right. In the video, still a lot of mistakes. But the point is transferred correctly - smooth, soft, slow, measured, thoughtful, short ... movement.

Professionals are very fast - to understand and see their work much more difficult.





  








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kolokotroni


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## kolokotroni (Mar 25, 2016)

Very sharp, easy to use and maintain kitchen knife determines the taste of the prepared dishes (http://www.toishi.jp/microworld_20131007/hikaku.html).

Since ancient times, the main diet in Japan consisted of fish and vegetables. A good example is the preparation of traditional Japanese cuisine from rice with acetic seasoning and various seafood. Knife with unsatisfactory performance cutting, will facilitate the allocation of chopped raw fish odor. The aesthetic appearance and taste will also be unacceptable to traditional Japanese cuisine. For example, the traditions of French cuisine, the taste of sliced products is largely determined by the shape and size of grinding used vegetables, fruits, etc., as well as the quality of the knife cuts:
- Varied taste can be obtained from the same products using various methods of grinding;
- From knife cut surface quality depends not only on the taste of food (salad, etc.), but also the duration of validity for nutritional prepared in fruit and vegetables;
- Cutting products and their methods of heat treatment due to non-uniformity of size and shape, contribute to disparities in the uniformity of the passage of the physical and chemical processes in the preparation of dishes.

THE HONYAKI (本焼)

@The Honyaki is the knife that legends and myths are made of. This series of knives is a treasured part of Japanese Cultural heritage. The Honyaki is not intended for the casual chef. Traditionally, a Japanese Chef purchases a Honyaki knife after completing his or her apprenticeship. To celebrate this achievement, a silver ring may be placed between the buffalo bolster and the wooden mahogany handle. *In Japanese tradition, it is considered very poor taste for a Chef to use the Honyaki before his or her apprenticeship is completed. *
The Honyaki is an object of admiration that represents a long history of Japanese pride and craftsmanship. Encoded in the steel are centuries of experimentation, and a commitment to perfection. The Honyaki is forged from a single piece of steel, using the traditional method of differential hardening and tempering. The Japanese have developed a method to insulate parts of the knife, so that the metal cools at different rates. There is no room for error, lest the blade be destroyed. Only blacksmiths of great skill can master this method. It is so specialized, Master Hide uses a different blacksmith for each type of steel. 
There exists a belief that Japanese knives are very hard to sharpen; only in this case, is it true. The edge of the Honyaki is so hard, it will break, chip, or crack if dropped or abused. While the blade is delicate, it is also true that the harder the edge, the longer it maintains its sharpness. Thus, while the Honyaki requires skilled hands, it rewards the individual who treats its blade with respect. 
The Honyaki is an object of skill and accomplishment, beauty, quality, and history. A Honyaki knife, given as a gift, represents all of this and more. Top Chefs use a Honyaki to symbolize their level of achievement, and a Honyaki is given, or collected, because of its beauty, function, history, and cultural [email protected] (http://www.sakaijapaneseknives.com/en/sakai-japanese-knives/18-japan-knife-catagories)


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## masonrk (Feb 8, 2016)

Kolokotroni said:


> THE HONYAKI (本焼)
> 
> @The Honyaki is the knife that legends and myths are made of. This series of knives is a treasured part of Japanese Cultural heritage. The Honyaki is not intended for the casual chef. Traditionally, a Japanese Chef purchases a Honyaki knife after completing his or her apprenticeship. To celebrate this achievement, a silver ring may be placed between the buffalo bolster and the wooden mahogany handle. *In Japanese tradition, it is considered very poor taste for a Chef to use the Honyaki before his or her apprenticeship is completed. *
> The Honyaki is an object of admiration that represents a long history of Japanese pride and craftsmanship. Encoded in the steel are centuries of experimentation, and a commitment to perfection. The Honyaki is forged from a single piece of steel, using the traditional method of differential hardening and tempering. The Japanese have developed a method to insulate parts of the knife, so that the metal cools at different rates. There is no room for error, lest the blade be destroyed. Only blacksmiths of great skill can master this method. It is so specialized, Master Hide uses a different blacksmith for each type of steel.
> ...


That is some of the most interesting information I have read this week. Man that is COOL! Quick question, what is a traditional Honyaki on the Rockwell hardness scale?

~Mason


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## kolokotroni (Mar 25, 2016)

"Quick question, what is a traditional Honyaki on the Rockwell hardness scale?"

Honyaki - White Steel (白鋼 - Shirohagane) or Blue Steel (青鋼 - Aohagane) *HRC* 64-65.

*Many pro-users prefer to own White steelblades because of its good characteristic "Ease of resharpening" (easier to make sharp edge in the sharpening process).*





  








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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Depends where you measure.


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## kolokotroni (Mar 25, 2016)

I believe that most of the carbides do not grind (not destroyed) because of their superhardness (70-80 HRC) - they are pulled out of a steel matrix with all its consequences.

"SLD steel by Hitachi is an excellent steel for kitchen knives. The base of the steel is SKD11 in JIS ( = Japanese Industrial Standard ) mainly used for dies fit for punching or stamping. The main features of the steel is hard, tough and strong against wearing. Hitachi has improved it for better work and longer life, and named it SLD. The main chemical compositions of it is : C 1.4-1.6%, Cr 11.0-13.0%, Mo 0.8-1.2% & V 0.2-0.50%. Generally the steels which contain Cr 13.0% or more are called stainless steel. SLD has close to 13.% Cr and are fairly resistant for rust. Due to high carbon like 1.5%, the HRC after heat-treating reaches about 60point. I have not checked the real HRC of this SLD but due to forging, can expect 1-2 or 3point higher. Furthermore, by combined with Cr, carbon makes and forms what it is called the primary carbide with HV ( = Vickers ) 1,800-2,000 hardness, equivalent to HRc 62-63.
If you have a chance to see the micto-structure, you will see many white tiny grains spread. The primary carbides are actually much higher in HRC (about 80 HRC) so this adds to excellent wear resistance of the steel. If you look at the photo below you can see the carbides mixed into the steel. So even though the whole hardness is HRC 60 for instance, while actually used or sharpened, I think that you will feel and experience the difference.
For users who want AS-like cutting performance with excellent wear resistance against rust at a reasonable price, this SLD steel would be an excellent choice.
(http://www.chefknivestogo.com/sldsteel.html)"





  








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kolokotroni


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Apr 3, 2016








http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/bevels.html#intro





  








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## kolokotroni (Mar 25, 2016)

Many manufacturers of expensive knives in Japan do not sharpen them. They believe that the cook independently optimizes the cutting edge of the knife under a certain kind of products (works). It does only manual and very expensive knife polishing - which shows the advantages and disadvantages of the internal structure of the steel. Microscopes have appeared recently, but you can really tell a lot about the quality of steel by polishing. There are other testing methods, but polished by centuries occupies a very important place (http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/togi.html). The buyer in the first place on the polishing determines the quality of the steel knife.






Before the process of optimizing the cutting edge of the knife, it is important to understand the structure of plant and animal products:
[h2]Cell Biology/Introduction/Cell size[/h2]
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cell_Biology/Introduction/Cell_size


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Kolokotroni said:


> Thank you, you're right. In the video, still a lot of mistakes. But the point is transferred correctly - smooth, soft, slow, measured, thoughtful, short ... movement.
> 
> Professionals are very fast - to understand and see their work much more difficult.


I'm not sure what mistakes you are referring to but to clarify my statement, eliminating the forefinger and thumb from the grip IS proper technique, essential to preventing the wrist from locking up and disrupting the mechanical flow of energy from forearm to hand.


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## kolokotroni (Mar 25, 2016)

[h1]Dear Sіr, [/h1][h1]Unfortunately, I you can not yet understand.[/h1][h1]I would be happy to see the biomechanical model of work disassembled more specifically: Angular momentum; Degrees of freedom (mechanics); Lever; Other.[/h1]





Thousand-year tradition of use and production of knives, historically formed a certain level of development of society and the individual in Japan, expressed in the types and forms of organization of life and activity of people as well as they create material and spiritual values - define the form and content of a unique culture. With the help of rational methods of production, modern technology for centuries combined with precision handwork.






Best regards.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

I realize that naming conventions for natural Arkansas stones may not have precise definitions, but the chart presented above leaves me a bit confused. Where do the "transparent" and "surgical black" fit into that schema?


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Grit size is meaningless when talking about Arks because of the matrix they are in.  When the surface is polished hard translucents and surgical blacks probably leave a finish in excess of a 20K waterstone.  Even with their surface roughened a hard translucent is in excess of a 10K waterstone.

From what was recently said of Coteules, they also don't fit neatly into their actual grit size in terms of the finish they leave.


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## kolokotroni (Mar 25, 2016)

Stones from Arkansas deserve a separate discussion in this forum. After many years of studying these stones I have accumulated more questions than answers.
Today, I believe that Arkansas is better to buy and use consciously, because of the need.
Approach "to working professionals Arkansas" is not valid for several reasons: Arkansas used then - when there is a need for a "nano" impact; Arkansas and Washita - the most difficult in the stones of all; The Arkansas And The Washita - SUPER FINISH STONE produces the ultimate edge, best suited for premium tools made of the highest-quality steel; ….





  








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kolokotroni


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"transparent" and "surgical black" - do not refer to Arkansas or Washita.

*The novaculite* form which oilstones are made is obtained from Garland country, Arkansas, and Orange county, Indiana. Of the former there are two varieties, the Arkansas, which is of bluish-white color, semitransparent, and very finely grained, and the Washita, not so finely grained, more opaque, and of pure white color. (Washington, D. C., 1893)





  








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http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.31175035165789;view=1up;seq=7





  








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kolokotroni


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Washita | Soft | Hard

Black | Anomalies BLACK ARKANSAS OILSTONE | Japan Naturals Waterstone


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## kolokotroni (Mar 25, 2016)

*Ask A Knifemaker: The Truth About Rust*

*http://www.thetruthaboutknives.com/2014/07/ask-a-knifemaker-the-truth-about-rust/*





  








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## kolokotroni (Mar 25, 2016)

Biomechanics of Human Motion: Applications in the Martial Arts Paperback - December 13, 2012
by Emeric Arus Ph.D. (Author)


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Kolokotroni said:


> [h1]Dear Sіr, [/h1][h1]Unfortunately, I you can not yet understand.[/h1][h1]I would be happy to see the biomechanical model of work disassembled more specifically: Angular momentum; Degrees of freedom (mechanics); Lever; Other.[/h1]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually geco the examples you gave here and below it are very unimpressive, relatively easy to do, have little to do with real athletic training. I'll take a look at the book you mentioned, but will likely not be impressed with it either. Athletic training like psychology is a very immature field, ignorance of essential principles and concepts and just plain mediocrety are the rule here.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

""transparent" and "surgical black" - do not refer to Arkansas or Washita."

I think some of the folks in Arkansas who mine and produce these stones may not agree.


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## kolokotroni (Mar 25, 2016)

Rick Alan

For me, sports training, military training and culture of survival have much in common, but many incompatible.

Practical methods of getting rid of the human fear of the knife ...


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## kolokotroni (Mar 25, 2016)




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## kolokotroni (Mar 25, 2016)

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