# Which is better, All Clad with copper core or Mauviel copperware?



## sandidan

I need advice from someone who has direct experience with these products or can offter other valuable knowledge. These are my needs.....can you offer some advice:

-- want a quality set that I can use daily
--want durability and good heat distribution
--athestics...like the look of copper and stainless equally
--using copper cleaner daily when washing is not a problem as I already handwash.
--price is not an issue as I cook daily
--not a metallurgist, so I don't know if the performance of a 2 ply of copper and stainless would be notably different from a 5 ply of aluminum, stainless and copper. The only thing I do know is that the copper is thicker on mauviel than all clad....if that makes a difference??????


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## boar_d_laze

You're not going to get enough of a performance difference between good quality stainless aluminum sandwiches, and the All-Clad copper core or the Mauviel copper with stainless insert to justify the price difference. 

If you buy copper, buy it for its beauty. On this basis, Mauviel is far superior to the All Clad sandwich. I don't know enough about All-Clad's Cop-R-Chef to comment. But in the past, All Clad copper exteriors have been to thin to make any sort of difference, other than cosmetic. At least Mauviel supplies whatever few extra benefits copper brings.

For what it's worth, there are other copper lines just as good as Mauviel, and other sandwiches just as good as All-Clad. Both brands are good, but neither is the be all end all.

BDL


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## nicko

I personally would recommend that you go with the Al Clad. I have a 10 piece copper cookware set and it is truly a labor of love. I enjoy them very much, very beautiful but they require a lot of love and attention.

I agree with BDL a big part of the appeal for buying copper is the beauty. I suggest buying one or two pots that you use regularly in copper and all the rest in non-copper.


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## grantmasterflas

I use both. I have to disagree with the other posters though. If you're buying copper for it's looks move on. Either cook or stare, choose. No matter how hard you work on the copper you'll never keep them brilliant unless you don't do anything else. Patinaed(sp) copper is almost like having notches in your gun belt though. Nobody questions me when I pull out this odd colored copper sauce pan.

The All Clad with copper core doesn't really work any different than the all aluminum version. Both products are equally good. You really need to work with both because my opinion may be different. I can tell you that no matter how nice the All Clad is the handle is a deal breaker. What kind of idiot would make a load bearing handle with two sharp edges that create pressure points in your hand? So here's my rule for All Clad, it has to be small or it has to have two handles. All of my All Clad fall into these categories. It performs great and if they replaced the handle I'd buy a lot more of it. As for Mauviel, I currently have 8 pieces of Mauviel copper. The ONLY downfall to Mauviel is the heft. The first time you lift one you'll tell yourself that this just isn't practical but you learn to work with it. I don't even think about it anymore, my wrists are stronger and I learn to hold them with both hands.

If I had to choose (I did and still do) I go with Mauviel. Be aware that the Mauviel at Williams Sanoma is NOT the same products as at Sur Le Table. Sur Le Table has the real product line with the thicker copper (2.5-3mm) and cast iron handles. Williams Sonoma has thinner copper and brass handles. If you're doing copper and you go thin you lost the benefit of having copper. Also don't buy it in the states unless you have to. If you're thinking of multiple pieces either get on a plane and fly to Paris (recommended because it's Paris!) or order online from E. Dehillerin. E.Dehillerin : ustensiles de cuisine et matériel cuisson professionnel. I've bought all of my stuff there and I saved about $1000 (which made it cheaper than All Clad too). After shipping you pay roughly half price. I know all the tricks of getting it and getting back as I've done every method so send me a message if you're serious.

The amount of money you'll save will buy you a new 40 inch LCD TV (or a trip to Paris!).

Oh, and Mauviel is awesome. I really love it. I very rarely pull the All Clad out of the cupboards anymore and at some point it will probably go to a new home. I have all the different pieces of Mauviel that I need to cook the meals I like and I've given up on cleaning them.

I do however have some cheap junk copper that I bough off of Ebay that I hang on the walls to look at because it is pretty.

Grant


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## duckfat

The issue I have with All Clad is that over the last few years their quality has tanked and their prices have sky rocketed. I really like my older All Clads but the newer products only weigh a fraction of what they did in the past.
The Mauviel transfers heat much faster than the AC copper core for me.
I agree with Nicko. Buy one or two copper pots and get the rest in SS (not copper core). 
In regards to the price difference I suggest checking prices closely as the AC copper core is priced very close to Mauviel copper now. Mauviel does make a few different series. Mauviel Professional with the iron handles is thicker (2.5mm) than the Mauviel 1830 series with SS handles and those the bronze handles both of which are
2 mm. All are "real" Mauviel products. Prices are similar. All of these are very good products. You also want to know that copper pots can be SS or tin lined. Most home cooks will want the SS lining.
As far as cleaning goes I polish my Mauviel once a week with bar keepers friend. It takes a few moments and it's cheap. No biggie.
I would not want to be limited to having all copper pots or all SS.


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## sandidan

Thanks to all and Grant, thanks for the incite, website, and your humor! I agree with the cook or look statement. I would probably go with Ruffoni with the little acorns on top to hang for looks, but no way would I ever use it to cook in. I did question the performance of the all clad copper core vs the regular all clad sandwich stainless... I would imagine that the 7 ply stainless Mauviel may even outperform the all clad altogether and the mauviel stainless handles certainly look more comfortable. I was considering the Mauviel Cuprinox "Style" which has the 2mm copper and stainless handles, which may take a tiny bit off the led weight cast iron handles. Didn't realize that the pro copper went up to 3mm, Wow!


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## grantmasterflas

My advice is if you're interested in copper do 2.5-3mm or go to Aluminum. Copper has a much faster heat transfer than Aluminum but it also loses heat faster which isn't desirable if you want to cook anything. So to make a long story short if the copper is too thin it's worthless. You can imagine cooking in a thin aluminum camp pan.... put the food in, pan goes cold. In my opinion 3mm copper is superior to aluminum but 2mm is not. There's really no way around the heft while keeping the advantages of copper. If the pan is too thin it will heat up fast and cool too fast.

The Cuprinox Pro line like these Mauviel Cuprinox Pro 2.5mm are ideal.

I will repeat though that it's worth it to get them from Paris. The store at the link wants $359 for the 11" fry pan, I paid $145. The 9.5 inch lid is $105, I paid $40. It's worth the trouble to have it shipped.

My original plan was to use copper only for my frypans where searing was really important. On a whim I bought a 9.5" copper sauce pan too and suddenly I could cook the best risotto I've ever had. It browns onions perfectly, transfers to the oven, makes risotto etc.. It was a wonderful thing so now I have a 4.8", 5.5", 7" and the 9.5". I also bought a 10 inch fry pan and an 11.6". The 10" never gets used because it's too small so the last time I was in Paris I picked up another 11.6 and now I'm happy. I bought a 9.5 inch saute pan and it too never gets used. Both the fry pan and the saute pan will end up on ebay as soon as I get the them polished.

You don't use one material for all of your pans either. I have eight copper frypans/sauce pans, two enameled cast iron dutch ovens, two seasoned cast iron comals, 1 each seasoned cast iron fry pan and grill, 2 All Clad double boilers, 1 All Clad small sautee, 1 All Clad small fry pan, several Wearever non-stick alluminum fry pans and sautee pans. So I have a mix of copper, enameled cast iron, seasoned cast iron, Clad Alluminum, Clad Alluminum/copper and all alluminum and I use them all for different things. They're all the best at what they do. Overall I've ended up with more copper than anything out of trial and error.

Grant


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## duckfat

The Mavuiel professional or heritage series with the Iron handles are 2.5 mm. The series with SS handles is 2mm. When I use the 2.5mm at the same time as the 2mm the difference is nominal. A half a MM is not a big difference.

Mauviel Professional Copper Cookware Set - Sur La Table


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## grantmasterflas

So you have 2mm and 2.5mm versions of the same pan? Mauviel calls the 1.5-2mm line Cuprinox Tableware. The Mauviel Cuprinox Professional is 2.5 mm and the Mauviel Tin Lined is 2mm-3.5mm. I have a friend who's a chef in Paris that says their 3 star restaurant only uses the Tin lined pans and wouldn't go for the SS lined. Every 6 months E. Dehillerin shows up to take their pans away for retinning. However, I think the home chefs needs aren't as stringent and I think the Professional series is a good medium.

Also I'd like to add that you can change your method to accomodate the pan. If you have a thinner pan just don't load it up as much. If you have a 3.5mm pan you can dump a bunch of stuff in it. I'm sure the 3.5mm tin lined pans work great but I'm not quite dedicated to having them retinned. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is there's no reason to go to a 2mm pan over a 2.5. They're both heavy, the Professional line only costs 5% more so you might as well go for it. Also that link that Duckfat posted to Sur Le Table has the thee piece set for $650. E. Dehillerin sells the same thing for $350 plus shipping which is usually about $100 which puts them at about $150 ea delivered to your door. You'd be hard pressed to get any other high quality cookware for that and that includes the thinner Mauviel at Williams Sanoma or All Clad. The savings get larger as the pans get larger. Amazon has the 6.5 qrt Sauce pan for $650, E. Dehilerin - $260.

I'd also encrouage you to figure out what you need and buy them seperately. The three piece set on Sur Le Table only has one piece I'd use. As a matter of fact the other two are going away because I did buy them!


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## duckfat

So you can order them from France for a fraction of the price but instead you bought them at Sur la Table??? Why buy three piece set with two pieces you can not use?
Clearly I have missed some thing.
In either event I have looked into ordering from Europe in the past however the weak dollar, exchange rates and international freight made it cost prohibitive.
AFAIK no one in this thread is talking about tin lined options. Those are not the best choice for most home cooks IMO.
As I noted the Professional series from Sur la Tale is 2.5mm and the SS handled versions from Williams Sonoma or any other vendor are 2mm. I have both series. There is a slight difference in weight but it is certainly not so great that I would ever suggest that the 2mm is no better than SS. That simply is not my experience.
Not every one wants the heaviest pot available. Like many things there is a lot of personal choice involved.


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## grantmasterflas

No I didn't word that right. I didn't buy that three piece set from Sur La Table, I bought all of those pieces independently from France and ended not using two. My point was that it's probably best to buy the pieces that you want and stay away from the sets. 

If you buy from France the wrong way it might cost you more. If you buy it the right way there's definitely a HUGE savings over getting it here.

You can order directly from E. Dehilerin for a fraction of what it would cost to buy the same thing here from either Williams Sanoma or Sur La Table. 

As an example I just added up what it would cost for me to purchase my Mauviel pieces from E. Dehilerin right now (with horrible current exchange rate) and if I were to buy them from Sur La Table both by having it shipped and buying local but paying tax.

E. Dehilerin including shipping and horrible exchange rate (1 EUR = 1.46689 USD) - $1390

Sur La Table - $2708 shipped with no tax/ $2659 local with tax
I had to price a 3.5 qt Sauce pan half the size of mine (6qt) because they didn't have the big one. If I would have compared straight across the E. Dehillerin price would be another $80 lower.

The difference in price is enough to pay for your plane ticket to Paris plus 5 days accomodations! You get a trip to Paris for free.  And to add to that if you only buy a few pieces at a time which is what I do you can put them in your checked bags and you don't pay VAT or Shipping!

I've never felt the weight of the 2.5mm next to the 2mm so I don't know how much of a savings there is. I know they all feel heavy. I'm sure that Williams Sanoma when they specced their cookware they were probably trying to make them lighter. That's understandable but heavy is heavy no matter how you slice it. 

I do however think stainless handles would be an improvement. Cast Iron transfers heat quite well and that goes for handles too. I have to use mits to pick them up after they've been on the stove for very long.

To the original poster - I think you'll love the Mauviel and I think both I and Duckfat are in agreement on this. I do think it's worth the trouble to get them from France though. Heck, I'll fly over and pick them up for you!


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## ed buchanan

If I paid that much for pots and pans, I would not cook in them, I would display them!:bounce:


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## duckfat

grantmasterflas I see what you were saying now. I'm not a big fan of sets either. They usually don't make any sense if you get pieces you do not want. I do like the 2.5 mm slightly better but all of the Mauviel copper is very nice. I agree on the SS handles. Both the iron and the bronze handles get pretty darn hot.


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## grantmasterflas

I always wondered why they didn't put an insulator between the handle and the pan. Even a stainless steel disk between the Cast Iron and copper would help. Ceramic would be better.


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## grantmasterflas

But then you'd get no use out of them. You can buy cheap copper junk that looks pretty to hang on the wall!


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## kokopuffs

Grant:

I have a copy of Dehillerin's catalog and it lists two lines of Mauviel copperware: thick and thin. 2.5mm is the thick line and I forgot the thickness of the thin line of copperware. Get the thick stuff as it'll hold heat much longer.

And yes, like me you can order directly from Dehillerin and save a bundle of $$'s although you'll need to fax them your signature along with credit card number when the order is placed.


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## grantmasterflas

I'm not the one ordering but thanks. If you call them (use skype) you probably don't have to FAX the credit card number. I'm not sure about that though. All of the people on the floor speak English. The people behind the counter, I don't know.

The thin line (tableware) is 2mm. I agree, the price difference is nominal and the thick line is 2.5.

Grant


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## kokopuffs

Grant, regarding faxing cc# and signature and without using skype, I AM certain about it. That's what was required of me for the last order I placed in 2002.


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## pizza&hotwings

The new big thing is Tri-Ply, ie (many of the celebrity chef lines)....technically All-Clad S/S has 7-plys, and some manufacturers count hard-anodizing as a layer. By most reports "Quality" or "Professional" cookware has typically 2mm to 2.5mm in copper covering the base, the next layer is typically Aluminum, followed by the 3rd S/S interior. All 3 metals go right to the top of the promoting even heating, cooking on all sides or at all levels.

But if your boiling water for lobster, corn-on-the-cob, pasta, etc. Do you really need the expense of Tri-Ply? I am building cookware inventory not by a set but pieces that have great reviews.......(to be continued)

heavier the pan if that is an issue, but if cost is not an issue, I always look to buy things that I fall in love with.....I hope you find the same

p&HW

oops I forgot.....copper is soft, aluminum is soft, so when they are dropped they tend to go out of round or dent, etc. the 3rd ply of s/s going to the top makes it less likely to dent or go out of round. This is also accomplished when there is a "lip" around the top of the pan adding strength.


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## grantmasterflas

Not to mention when you burn out a steamer because you let it run dry you don't want to be doing it to a $500 pan. Not that any of us have done that of course. My last one was made by Al-Clad was supposedly copper core but the stream of molten aluminum running from the base was 100% aluminum. The copper was just sprayed on the outside to make it look like it was copper. Amazingly it doesn't take much to melt aluminum if there's no water in the pan.


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## le.gentleman

Thank you very much for the tip to buy Mauviel directly in Paris. My fiancee and I had planned to fly to France anyways and I am sure we'll have a stopover at CDG. That way we can have a nice stopover in Paris for a few days and buy some pots and pans. 
However, I think you have to pay customs if you return to the US and you bring in more than $800 in goods (if you are a US citizen). 
How is that, when you have that stuff shipped to the US - how long did it take for you to receive it and did you pay customs, if so how much?

Thanks, le.gentleman


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## pazzo

That's assuming they know you brought more than $800 (or whatever it is) in goods back.


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## chefray

I would have to find a way to live in them.:lol:


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## boar_d_laze

Far cheaper to ship than bring them with you. Plus many sellers will not only arrange shipment but provide help with a "creative" valuation for duty purposes.

You'll want to take care of this as much as possible before your trip, without actually paying for anything; thus preserving your opportunity to change your mind if a better opportunity presents itself on the ground. 

Bon chance,
BDL


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## duckfat

Shipping is indeed the way to go. When the items are shipped the onus is on the shipper in regards to valuation plus there is an invoice enclosed to substantiate the price. You are probably not going to hide a set of copper pots in your luggage and the Customs Offcers do know the value of most items. Not to mention if they are packed in a separate box the airlines now charge per piece for checked items. Most airlines have progressive fees so your second checked bag is getting fairly pricey. How long an item takes to clear customs when shipped depends on the country it's shipped from and the port it enters. I've had a clock from Germany take a week in LA and a knife from Japan take a day from Chicago. I was not charged duty for either shipment. My understanding is that those in Canada aren't quite so lucky with the duty charge on freighted items.


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## missyjean

I'm so glad I found this thread. I am currently trying to decide which cookware to buy. It is going to be a Christmas present from my husband. I have been flip-flopping between the All Clad aluminum clad/stainless and the copper core. However, after reading this thread, the copper core has been eliminated and I am seriously considering the Mauviel. Those handles do look heavy, though...


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## duckfat

Costco is now carrying a SS Mauviel set which I like a lot better than the new standard AC SS.

Costco - Mauviel 9-piece Cookware Set


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## missyjean

May I asky why you prefer it to the AC?

I see this has 5 layers but how easy would it be to get additional peices?


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## duckfat

I think the best thing I could say is pick up a piece of the standard AC SS and compare it to the Mauviel. AC is not what it used to be and it's very expensive. You can buy individual pieces of Mauviel at many stores. Your husband won't be dissapointed with Mauviel.


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## missyjean

Thank you Duckfat.


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## missyjean

Mauviel also makes a 7 layer stainless called Mauviel M'Cook

Is that the one I should be interested in?

Also, does anyone have evxperience with Chef's Resource?

All Clad Cookware, Gourmet cookware, Cutlery, Shun Knives, Wusthof Knives Global Knives, Le Creuset, and More .

They are selling Mauviel on their site


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## hollow4

I just got back from Paris, and having visited the E. Dehillerin store my wallet was much lighter. I bought the 4 smallest copper pots that they had and brought them home and gave them to my fiancee. I would have gotten more but they were really heavy and i wasn't sure how much my bag would weigh. I picked up the SS lined 2.5 mm Cuprinox. We both love to cook and are already making plans to un-register the All-Clad and order the rest of the pots from E. Dehillerin instead of waiting till the wedding. 

The cost for the 4 was just about $600 (~400 euro) and I am waiting for a $100 to come back on my CC for VAT. If you have the chance to get to Paris the store is worth a stop, the people are friendly and decent to deal with. They have the typical attitude when you ask them to speak english but they went out of there way to help me figure out what would fit our situation. 

Just to see how the All-Clad stood up we went to a William Sonoma outlet last night and I picked up a few comparable All-Clad pots in my hands and I just wasn't impressed. They seemed really flimsy compared to the Mauviel that I got in France. There is just something that feels great about them when you hold them. They feel like they are there to do some serious cooking. I may have bought way over my head, but I am of the mind that I'm only gonna buy pots once and I'm going to buy the best that I can.

Did I mention they look great hanging on the pot rack too. They make the cheapies ashamed and they will soon be retired to the trash. I know its not about looks, but it doesn't hurt. It's also a nice change to know I can use metal utensils in the pots and not worry about the lining. 

I would highly recommend E. Dihillerin in France as a place to buy things. Does anyone know how to get a catalog? I looked on their website and I had no luck finding it. I bought two whisks while I was there and would have picked up more but I wasn't sure about the space. 

Cheers


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## grantmasterflas

You can email them and ask for a quote. What I do when I'm in the store is I write down the item number for things that I might want in the future but don't want to purchase (or carry home) right now. Then when I'm home I can email them and ask for a quote using the item number. 

As far as the attitude when you asked if they spoke English. It was probably from the fact that you asked. I just speak English the minute I walk in the door and they reply in English since they speak it as well or better than I. Jean and the rest of the crew have always been very nice to me.

A lot of things like whisks etc. you can get elsewhere. I use E. dehilerin for all of my copper and other specialty things. I checked the price of Staub and considering the horrible exchange rate it's not worth the trouble. I might save $30 on something that weighs a ton.


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## boar_d_laze

Chef Ed is right.

While it's true that quality stainless-lined cookware is good stuff when it comes to cooking, you may also buy multi-ply core pans with either stainless or aluminum exteriors, which will do the job as well as a heavy copper exterior pan, and do it for far less money.

The difference between copper and other high-performance metals isn't performance; at least not in any meaningful way. Whatever advantage it held disappeared when aluminum discs and cores came into the market.

It's real advantages are cosmetic and emotional. If you're not buying copper for the way it looks or how it makes you feel about yourself, you're probably wasting your money.

BDL


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## grantmasterflas

A friend of mine is a chef at Guy Savoy in Paris and sent me a photo of the kitchen. All of their cookware was Mauviel tin lined copper. Are you saying that one of most famous Michelin 3 starred restaurants buys copper because it makes them feel good?


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## phatch

I would say it has a lot to do with image in that case, yes.


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## boar_d_laze

Grant,

To do you the favor of a direct answer: Pretty much, yes.

I don't have a magic brain reader for perfect insight into other folks' motivation, but since you're asking me to guess they mostly use copper for two reasons:

First, because it's expensive and sets them apart from kitchens which can't or won't afford the extra expense -- in other words it makes them look good. Guy Savoy charges more than $400 per cover for their tasting menu. They must exhibit every indication of "no expense spared," possible in order to give their guests a sense of value.

(_Have you read economics? Veblen wrote about this, and so did Giffen. Perhaps the "Giffen paradox" where a good is desirable primarly because it's expensive and _vice versa_, i.e., perceived value is independent of utility, is particularly interesting as it applies to home cooks._)

Second, because copper was the traditional material in good kitchens before the big change in materials. There was a time, not that long ago, when the pans then available did not perform as well as copper. Again, another "feel good" reason where appearance counts for more than any actual performance differences.

Also, you said that the restaurant used "tin-lined" copper. Do you think they use tin instead of stainless for emotional reasons? By your reasoning, we should get tin lined pans instead of stainless because if a Michelin starred restaurant uses tin, it must be better.

Copper is no longer the dominant material in the world's great kitchens. What does it mean to you if two different three stars use Demeyer multi-ply and Sitram stainless respectively?

Let's be adult about it. To the extent that copper might respond a hearbeat quicker to a flame change, and/or might spread the heat an RCH more evenly, in my experience the difference is not enough to make a noticeable different to my (discerning) eye and palate. The lack of difference extends to even the most subtle tasks like browning thin mushrooms or crisping the skin on thin fish. Frankly, if my life depended on the meal I'd just as soon use old Calphalon as copper.

Sorry, but I don't find your evidence, a description of a French postcard with Parisian kitchen porn, convincing. I prefer to rely on my own experience -- which includes plenty of copper, by the way -- and the experience of those whom I know cook at a professional level. But I don't expect my opinion to supercede yours, I'm just giving you the benefit of mine in order to defend Ed's honor.

Furthermore, I would never attempt to dissuade someone from buying copper who can afford it and has already made the decision. There are better things to do than rain on someone else's parade. And, if you believe that copper cookware makes you cook better, you're certainly entitled to your belief. And, more power to you. You seem to think an egg fries better in a Matfer copper/stainless pan than a Vollrath aluminum/stainless multi-ply. You're entitled to your opinion and your egg.

BDL


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## duckfat

I believe so but you can pull up the Mauviel web site and take a look.


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## johnliu

I love Dehillerin too. FYI on those new pots. Keeping copper shiny, if you wish to do do, requires Twinkle or an equivalent product. I buy Twinkle at a local hardware store, or try Sur La Table. I've heard Barkeep's Friend recommended too but have never tried it. Don't waste your time and money with lemon juice, ketchup, or similar homespun ways. 

As for the performance advantage of copper, compared to a good stainless clad/aluminium core pan, my two cents is that it is exists but is subtle. I've made identical omelets (American-style) in my copper omelet pan and in an All-Clad steel pan, side by side, and the former came out more evenly colored while the latter was slightly mottled. Well, big deal. I use copper (about 50% of my cooking) because cooking is - sometimes - an aesthetic pleasure. When I'm simply banging out a quick meal I tend to use some old anodized aluminium pots that I've had for 20 years. 

Oh, I much prefer the thicker 2.5mm stuff to the thinner brass handled stuff.


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## mannlicher

I have, and use daily, both the All Clad Cop-R-Chef and Mauviel Copper. Most of my All Clad is the older, copper exterior product, not the Copper Core, modern pieces. I have a few pieces of the newer model. My Mauviel is all the heavy, tinned version. In practical terms, I can't find any real difference between the two brands or approaches. Both are good looking, but more importantly, both perform well.


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## boar_d_laze

Not an even heating problem. Mottling is usually technique related. An uneven omelet surface, which probably occurred as you pushed the omelet around in order to get the raw egg on the top to run off to the hot pan surface. Another cause is butter that's hotter as opposed to cooler. Yet another cause is more, rather than less butter. 

BDL


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## missyjean

Thanks DuckFat. I actually handled a piece of Mauviel Copper/Stainless in a store. It was a little too heavy for me. I bought a piece of All Clad and a piece of Viking. The Viking was a little lighter than the Mauviel. The All Clad was flimsy. I couldn't even get my petite hand in the helper handles 

I returned the All Clad the next day

I love the Viking. It cooked really well and cleaned up amazingly.


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## duckfat

I'm glad to hear you found what you like. I noticed some Viking cookware at Sur la Table recently that looked very nice. I hope it serves you well.


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## duckfat

If you ever get tired of that Mauviel Windsor pot Sam you can send it to me. eace:


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## mke_foodie

Sorry if this sounds like a silly question, but I have been trying to order copper cookware- I want to get the Mauviel tin lined ones, from Dehillerin. I use the order form on their website, but I never get any reply. Is this the way I am supposed to do it, or something else. 

I wish I could go to Paris, but for now thats not a possibility  

Thanks.


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## mke_foodie

I had a previous post, which did not show up. So excuse me if this is a repetition. I want to order some tin lined copper cookware from Dehillerin. I use the order form on their website, but I never get any reply. Is this the way I should do it, or something else(I cant go to Paris and get them personally, though I wish I could). 


Thanks.


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## missyjean

Thank you. I love it. So far, everything has turned out much better, even my morning oatmeal is creamier.

Clean-up is amazing. I let the oatmeal pot cool off for about an hour before washing it this morning and the pot cleaned as though it was non-stick. 

Thanks so much for all your help and guidance


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## kokopuffs

As I vaguely remember when ordering from them, I think that I needed to fax the order along with my signature and cc#.


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## mke_foodie

Thanks for the info. I finally called them for a quote and got it. Its a huge difference as to what we spend in the US compared to their quotes, including shipping. 
I am glad I found this forum.


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## kokopuffs

You telephoned them? From where pray tell?


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## mke_foodie

I don't understand when you say from where, but I called them from the US. They were really polite, in spite of my first question being "Good morning, do you understand English?"

I used the number they have on their website. 

The minimum price that I would pay for the things that I need would have been $1835 excluding tax and shipping in the US, while I get them from E.Dehillerin for $1130 including shipping. I dont know how much customs duty I would have to pay, or if I have to pay.


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## kokopuffs

I meant from which country are you telephoning.


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## boar_d_laze

I _THINK_ the actual tariff for importing copper household goods for personal use is around 3% of the purchase price. But you really have to check.

The easiest way to do that is to contact the shipper at the US end. They'll be the ones who actually pay the duty. It's either already calculated and included in the shipping price quoted; or will be passed on to you in the form of a surcharge; or may be passed on as a surcharge if the actual duty exceeded the estimate. Anyway, they (presumably DHL, Fed-Ex or UPS) should have a schedule and be able to give you a close estimate.

Alternatively you can track it down on government websites; and good luck with that. But the shipper will collect, not the government; and there may be other tariffs which apply that you don't know enough to ask about. All in all, you're probably better off checking with the shipper.

In any case, plan on spending some quality phone time "on hold."

Good luck,
BDL


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## kokopuffs

When I ordered my Mauviel from Dehillerin, I spent absolutely NO time on the phone discussing tariffs. Items were delivered by, as I faintly remember, FedEx. And in spite of any added tariffs, the overall cost was much cheaper than had the items been purchased from a retailer here in the U.S..


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## boar_d_laze

That's nice. I only made the suggestion in case mke cared about knowing what the tariff would be. It wasn't a comment on you, your suggestions, or your methods at all. If anything I wrote made it seemed that way, I apologize for creating the false impression.

BDL


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## kokopuffs

No offense taken. Just stating that I never paid any attention to tariffs in the first place.


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## mke_foodie

Thanks for the info about tariffs. I checked the US customs website and apparently its 3%. So that should not be a deal breaker either. I called FedEx-down time at work, have nothing else to do-(the lady that I talked to at Dehillerin said they would use FedEx) but they said they cant give me any estimate.


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## mistry

Hi, 

I wonder if you could help me. I am travelling to Paris over the next couple of weeks and was planning on purchasing some Mauviel Cuprinox Pro cookware.

Depending on what I decide to buy... I would be most grateful for some advice.

If I am bring items back in my suitcase or checking an extra item as luggage, when you arrive into the USA, do you declare the items you have purchased and pay taxes at customs.
Also if the items were being brought back and checked in, where abouts do you have to go to claim the VAT back at CDG airport. Do you need to show them the items you have purchased. (I know in the UK you must show the items you are claiming VAT refunds). I will have extra luggage allowance to ship a box with cookware.

Or is it a lot easier just to ship items back.

Can you purchase the Mauviel Cuprinox Pro cookware in 2.5mm copper with stainless steel handles.

What are you favourite Mauviel pieces.

Thank you in advance for any of your advice.


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## mnesom

mauviel is far superior for two reasons

1. All copper ensures the heat at the top of the pan is the same as the bottom - critical for pastry or desert or chocolate making

2. Searing temperatures will cause the All Clad to de-laminate

Having said all of that if your not a professional chef I doubt you would notice the difference

All clad is better for two reasons

1. It is far cheaper

2. The weight of the mauviel requires you to be from Mt olympus to use it all the time in a professional kitchen


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## trulys

all my pots & pans are Mauviel & I wouldn't have anything else. The craziest things I've put my pots through would've killed any other, but mine are still going strong


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## margaux1995

mnesom said:


> 2. The weight of the mauviel requires you to be from Mt olympus to use it all the time in a professional kitchen


Just joint this forum and reading this already made my day. Thx for the smile caused.


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## snimaster

Hello!

Can someone tell me what is the best website to purchase some cookware?

I found http://copper-smith.com/shop/index.php and coppermasters.com and also http://www.mauvielusa.com/

Or should I just go with ebay?

Thank you all.


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## littlevoicemoi

Hi there,

I was just reading your post on E. Dehillerin. I was wondering how did you ship the items back? I was thinking of bringing one as a carry on but if I bought more then I would have to ship it back. How much was shipping? I guess you only got the VAT tax back for the items you brought with you on the plane?

Thanks


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## kokopuffs

@littlevoicemoi:

I purchased my Mauviel directly from Dehillerin using a credit card and I had to fax them my signature. Delivery was very quick, using Fed Ex. Prices were better than what was found here in the U.S.. All this came about in 2002 and I don't know if anything has changed.


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## bourbongal

If you're open to suggestion, consider the demeyere atlantis line as well. Their quality is unmatched. One of my fav.


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## chris bruce

Mauviel it is great it conducts heat evenly and gives the best performance of anything, That is the science behind it the same metal will conduct heat even across the whole. Now as for the copper OMG what a pain on the ass I wish on no one lol. It is really a job to keep it looking nice. But again I love them and would not change anything. Just need a robot to clean them for me.... or a really good maid lol.


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## full sack

I like the Mauviel for searing and transferring to the oven, (mostly rib eyes), but not for solely stovetop work.  The model I have, the one with the iron handle, the handle gets too hot; my 20+ year old All-Clads don't have that issue.  I know, you can hold the Mauviel handle with a rag, but it's just one more thing to deal with.


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## duckfat

I find the cast iron handles on the 2.5mm transfer far less heat that the bronze handles they use on their 2mm line. Either way hot handles have been a factor on every Copper pot I've had.

The All clad Copper Core is nice but I find both of these products to be very different tools and I wouldn't want to be with out a few of either.

As far as cleaning goes with the Mauviel smooth Copper does seem to drive some wonky... although I never really understood why. You can just let the exterior develop a nice patina or polishing takes less than a minute with a dab of BKF .

The real issue I have with the AC Copper Core is the product has gone up so significantly in price I just don't find it to be worth the $$$ Vs the regular Tri-Ply with is less than 1/3 the price.


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## grantmasterflas

Al-CladCopper core 12" fry pan is $250 from Williams-Sonoma plus tax. Al-Clad Tri-Ply of the same size is $150 plus tax. The same size Mauviel Extra thick copper fry pan is $190 plus shipping (but no tax).  The Mauviel will cost you less than Al-Clad copper core but more than Al-Clad tri-ply.

The biggest advantage for tri-ply is weight as it's much lighter than any copper. The problem is Al-Clad has horrible handles. I can't imagine who decided to put a handle on a pan that puts pressure in two long narrow bars on the back of your hand. The crazy thing is they continue to do it forever. I was in Sur la Table once and someone was looking at an Al-Clad fry pan and the sales clerk actually said "A lot of people don't like the handles" and steered the customer to another brand. I thought I was the only one....

I buy Al-Clad but only small pans or pots where the handle isn't a problem. Mauviel has a problem with hot handles since Cast Iron transfers heat fairly well. I just got used to using a hot mitt for all my pans.


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## aceto

Thicker matters with copper. Thin coppers (under 2.5 mil) do not exhibit the superior heat distribution. Solid copper does a much better job heating up the sides. Copper is meant for heavy, day long use. Copper cleaner is not the same as polish. Clean copper has no varnish build on the outside. Copper now has stainless steel lining (not a layer) that now makes it more durable than the old tin lining. 

These are both good makers and I have some of each. I reach for Mauviel for the bigger pots and especially when I need the best control.


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## bubblepot

Hi Grant, hi everyone else,

I've been following this conversation and agree with you and everyone else when it comes to Mauviel copper vs All-Clad. I am not a professional Chef and can only speak for myself (more as an 'advanced home cook' I would say), but it does make a difference. Of course one could argue that cooking almost any food in almost any pan is possible, but having better quality cookware just makes the ride so much smoother.

That being said I'd like to ask a question regarding Dehillerin's store in Paris, which looks amazing!

Is the copper ware  original Mauviel or their own home brand?

The reason I am asking is that the engraved/stamped Mauviel logo seems to be missing on all the photos (except for the INOX stainless steel) and I also haven't found the actual word Mauviel on their site. 

Either way the stuff they have looks amazing and I am considering ordering some pans in the near future.

Cheers,

Karl


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## grantmasterflas

Bubblepot,

   They are 100% Mauviel. I don't know why they don't say Mauviel on the website, I guess they assume that you know who makes Cuprinox and Inox.  Every summer I wander their shop and usually buy something. I thought I was done but I've been informed by my other half that she uses the 9.5 inch sautee pan (I don't) and wants a larger one so I guess this summer I'll be picking up a larger sautee pan.


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## bubblepot

Thanks for the feedback Grant! I assumed they would be the real deal but was just wondering so thanks for clarifying that. And I'm sure you're very upset yo have to go back and get another pan  Enjoy the trip!


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## bersh

Hi Grant, 

it's now 9 years since your post, and i really don't know if this message will ever get to you. 

I live in South Africa and so in love with Mauviel. i see from this post, that if i want to buy a Mauviel piece - i should opt for the heavier ones with cast iron handles. i'm looking at buying the roasting pan - so not sure between the ones with cast iron handles, stainless steel handles, or bronze handles - do you think i should go for the cast iron handles because this is the professional series with a thicker copper base? 

but more importantly - do you think E. Dehilerin would deliver to South Africa? 

thanking you

Bersh


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## thorgild

Hi... I saw your post about the advantages of purchasing Mauviel copper cookware in Paris.  Can you provide some info on how to get the same savings you described?   I will be traveling there in a few months and am looking to replace my existing set of pots/pans. thanks.

kent


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## kokopuffs

thorgild said:


> Hi... I saw your post about the advantages of purchasing Mauviel copper cookware in Paris. Can you provide some info on how to get the same savings you described? I will be traveling there in a few months and am looking to replace my existing set of pots/pans. thanks.
> 
> kent


If you're going to Paris then visit the E. Dehillerin brick and mortar store in that classy district. Once purchased the item can be shipped directly to you from the store and of course you'll pay S&H at the time of purchase. Otherwise if conducting the purchase online then you'll fax to them both your signature and CC# and they'll fax to you the order confirmation.


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## summer57

> If you're going to Paris then visit the E. Dehillerin brick and mortar store in that classy district. Once purchased the item can be shipped directly to you from the store and of course you'll pay S&H at the time of purchase. Otherwise if conducting the purchase online then you'll fax to them both your signature and CC# and they'll fax to you the order confirmation.


E. Dehillerin is a fun place! We visited in person, then a few months later, my husband ordered a set of copper pommes anna and tarte tatin saucepans. So happy with them! still in great shape, even a few years.

Here's my souvenir E. Dehillerin bread scraper (used a few times in the Sept. 2016 Bread Challenge!):





  








IMG_2563.JPG




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summer57


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Sep 29, 2016


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