# flat bagels



## giosal (Aug 13, 2008)

I need help..
I had already shaped the bagels and when I went to boil them they got flat..
what could it be wrong?
when I baked them they stood flat and never got the original size..
help please..


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

Welcome to Chef Talk, Giosal. When you get a chance, why not stop in the Welcome Forum and introduce yourself?

It would be helpful if you posted your bagel recipe, including the method. 

Good luck,
Mezzaluna


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## giosal (Aug 13, 2008)

I'm sorry as you know I'm new here and I don;t know how to get to the welcome forum..
How can I get there?
Thanks.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

I'm not sure when they flattened. Before or after they went in the water?

In either case, the problem is _probably_ the same. Bagels are little hand formed loaves. They need a lot of surface tension to hold their shapes and rise -- rather than just spread out.

This is how I form:

1. Divide into balls.
2. Pull the balls down
3. Put the balls down on the board, and use a finger to form a hole
4. Work the dough around the hole to form a bagel
5. Proof 
6. Plunge in hot water, turn, remove

Obviously 1 through 4 are formation. It's steps 2, 4 that are tricky. On 2, you want to pull down enough to get a tight skin without totally flattening. On 4, try not to flatten at all. This isn't easy considering you're jamming a finger into the middle of a little ball of dough. In fact, it's not the gas in the dough you're trying to protect, it's the tightness of the outer surface. If you've baked batards you have a feeling for this.

On 6, you have to handle them very gently. I back one side with a short spatula, and slide a long spatula underneath to lift and take to the pot; then a spider to remove.

BDL


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## izbnso (May 12, 2007)

BDL, how long do you proof your bagels? I've worked with recipes that call for proofing after forming and the one that I use most often doesn't have a proof so much as by the time you're done forming start plunking the first ones in the water. 
Could over proofing (and maybe rough handling) have resulted in a collapse/flat bagel? 

As a side note, bagels made with fresh un-frozen blueberries are $45 each. My one and only bagel fiasco, I must have been bumped in the head on that one.:blush:


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Sure. Anything that would flatten a loaf can flatten a bagel. I forget what percentage of spring a water bagel's supposed to take in the bath, but it's pretty high. 40% maybe. You can definitely take too much raise on the counter. 

When I originally posted I wrote "brief proof," but edited it out because I didn't want to overcomplicate the surface tension message. Getting that surface tight is so important with free form breads. 

But, yeah. Could well have been. Be nice to know more from Giosal regarding handling, feel, forming, proofing and all the other issues. 

Speaking of forming, a lot of people start making bagels by rolling out logs and making rings. Sort of a pretzel-thing without the twist. It's a Euro/Isreali "begeleh," and they have even bigger surface tightness issues because the logs are so narrow. I've never made one. 

BDL


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## izbnso (May 12, 2007)

The first bagels I ever made called for the log to ring method, being a WASP by birth, a WASC by conversion and from the South to boot, the only bagel I had been familiar with was a Lender's. I remember thinking that they looked so smooth and perfectly round, and it is no easy feat to get rid the seam line completely in the log to ring method, a real PITA actually. So is that method not considered to be pure essence of bagel?
I can't remember where I encountered ( I'm getting too old to remember everything) information leading me to the "poke a hole" method, but that's where I'm at now with a seamless beautiful bagel.


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## giosal (Aug 13, 2008)

Well, thanks everybody for all your help and tips.
I think that my problems was that I didn't know the difference between Dry active yeast and dry instant yeast..because I thought that I had to use a bit more or the dry instant yeast; It was the only yeast that I had at home.
Instead of using a 25% less of the instant I add 25% more of it..
That proofing time was 20 minutes, when I went to touch them to put them in the boiling water they deflated instantly.


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