# what kind of knife do you have?



## 9ballprodigy

hey guys,

i just signed up today and i'm very excited to be here. i'm sure a thread to this effect has been done at one point or another, but i was wondering what kind of knife you guys use in your everyday cooking. whatever knife you use the most often.

for me, right now, i have an 8" shun classic chef's


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## shipscook

I have had Wusthof forever, with a few pieces of Chicago Cutlery. Lost my knives this winter and just replaced them all. Purchased several Wusthofs and a 10" Shun chef's knife.
As soon as picked it up, knew I was a convert, used it a bit and had to have it.
Will pick up an inexpersive bread knife and couple of fillet knives. The fillet knives get "borrowed" a lot, by crew mwmbers, so just figure on replacing them.
Welcome!
Nan


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## mezzaluna

Many of us have several brands, depending on the knife and the task. I have a Global 5" cook's knife; a set of Henckel's with a couple of knives I don't use much, a Kyocera paring knife, a Victorinox paring knife and some junky little $1 paring knives I use to open meat packages, etc. I supplemented the Henckel's set with a 7" santoku. After trying many brands, that one fit my hand best.

I recommend NOT buying sets unless every knife fits your hand, you will probably use all of them, or that you have money to waste. Buying knives as open-stock purchases means you'll buy what fits your hand, your budget and your purposes.


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## dkua

I recommend a Japanese knife like the Tojiro DP F-809 240mm Gyuto knife, Japanese knives are very shard and hard, but are also thinner and lighter than Western style knives, this *could *be a con for you, for me though it wasn't it's a great knife for the price.


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## thetincook

I'm using a Mundial 10" chefs knife, Mundial flexi boning knife, Victorinox paring knife, and a Forchner Slicer. I also have an offset serreted knife also by Mundial. All my mundials have the white plastic sani handles. They're a PITA because they stain.


I'm considering moving up to a forged chefs knive. I think the extra weight will make things easier on the wrist. The bolster will take some getting used to though.


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## ishbel

I am still using 3 Sabatier knives that were part of a set I was given as a wedding present - many years ago!


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## phatch

I use some Forschner and a 10" Henkels chef's knife. I have a Santoku from a maker whose name escapes me now but whose product are in a many restaurant supplie stores. Not a great knife but a good one.


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## 9ballprodigy

tincook: i think that every cook should have a knife worthy of taking care of. it's like a car. it's used everyday. if you like the heft of a german knife, then a forged henckel or wusthof might be up your alley. the down side of a forged chef's knife is the fact that the bolster gets in the way if you ever want to sharpen your knife with a stone. the quality of stamped blades are getting better and better. they are also getting more expensive. look into japanese knives if you are looking for a thinner spine on the blade. they make cutting a bit easier. globals and shuns are probably the best selling japanese knives on the US market right now.

what i really want is a Hattori knife. i just can't get over the damascus look. but at the same time, i have to say, the handle shape on a shun is probably the best thing to happen to a knife since scalloped blades.


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## frayedknot

*All my mundials have the white plastic sani handles. They're a PITA because they stain.*

Tincook, We have some of those knives for anyone to use at work as well. When they stain (I dont like it either) I use "BLOCK WHITE" (the stuff to clean cutting boards and table tops) and that makes the handles look like new.

My knives are Henckles as well, I like the "hefty" feel plus I have big hands it was a toss up between Henckle and Wustoff. The Globals I used were a bit light for me. But to each his own on the knife purchase. I purchased mine on an online auction individually and I thought the price was VERY reasonable. A NEW 10" Pro "S" knife for $48.00 plus shipping :smoking: I have a 2 Chef, Boning, Santuko, 2 Utility, paring, bread and a 3" Mundial birds beak. I kinda keep an "eye" on my knives after seeing a cook open a jar of Jalapenos with a 10" chef knife. Hmmm maybe that is why the point is broken off of most of the "kitchen's" knives.


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## johnarmr

I dont think I will ever go back to a non japanese knife. the steel in japanese made knives are far superior compared to german knives, which means thinner edge so it will get sharperand stay sharper longer! Also I like the shape of japanese knives not counting them dam shuns! I hat the bely shuns have as well as the other german knives out there!


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## 9ballprodigy

really? i really like it. i mean, it facilitates the "rocking" and "gliding" motion when you cut stuff like scallions. the traditional gyutou has a tip that looks similar to a santoku where the spine of the blade and the edge of the blade meet mid point. this concerns me because it looks like it's going to crush what ever i cut rather than "glide" through it.

but i could be wrong. many people who swore by french shaped knives ended up going traditional japanese or with the santoku.


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## johnarmr

the gyuto shape is much more like a french knife just with out the dam bolster! the santoku is a different shape than the gyuto but I keep them thin and sharp so there is no crushing i like the shuns they just missed on a few points so I wont own one besides there are better knives out there at a better price than the shuns and globals ! check out www.jck.com !


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## cwshields

I don't want my knives to feel neglected. I rotate between several Japanese knives, Chinese clevers, and Wustoff's depending on the mood I'm in and what I'm preparing.


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## blade55440

I like my victorinox 10" chef's for nearly everything. Good grip, decent weight, and feels good in my hand.

I've yet to find a condition that will make that thing slip in my hand either, that alone would be enough for me to stick with it for awhile.


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## 9ballprodigy

i hear a lot of good things about the vitrinox fibrox from forchner. mainly that it feels good in the hand, it's cheap, and dishwasher safe. 

but people also tell me that it's a pain to resharpen with a stone. 

cook's illustrated swears by the knife though.


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## blade55440

I can tell you that it does well in all those places, but I've never put it in the dishwasher, so I couldn't tell you for that.

As for the stone, I haven't perfected my technique on that, so I couldn't tell you with any certainty if it is or is not a pain.


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## henri

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## phatch

The forschners respond well to stones for sharpening. Or crocksticks, even diamond stones, though those are too aggressive for most cases.

Phil


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## henri

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## cheflayne

For 20 years, I was inseparable from my 11 1/2" Henckels chef knife. About 3 years ago, I decided to investigate Japanese knives as a possible addition to my collection. I went to MAC USA and talked with owner Harold Arimoto. For about an hour, we talked, held, and used knives from their different lines. We even cut and peeled fruit and veg. I now use my 8" MAC professional series dimpled chef knife almost exclusively.


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## 9ballprodigy

i do enjoy using the japanese knives over european ones. the lack of bolster makes sharpening easier and the lightweight feel is really helpful in reducing fatigue when i have to slice 15 cups of scallions or something like that. however, i do recommend a 10 inch knife over an 8 in. if your workplace gives you a lot of room at your station. an 8 in. knife gets tricky when you have to bisect a whole taro root or melon. alas, my station gives me about 6-8 inches on each side of me and about a foot of space in front of my board... so 10 in blade is a liability to my co workers. i just got jabbed with someone's 11 in. global "sword" the other day.


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## henri

Have used Forschner for many years but broke tip [not me] of my favorite chefs knife, so looking for a replacement. Found Forschner but am thinking of Wusthof or Henckels, although there are some interesting ones mentioned on this forum! Have read that the Henckels has soft steel compared to Wusthof. Do many folks have the same impression? Some fine Japanese cutlery out there but want to stay with the German steels, particularly because I can see and feel them before buying. Do wish I could do a hardness test first, but expect that would be asking too much to put three little impressions in two of their knives! Am considering an 8-inch chefs knife, but the 10-inch felt so good I might buy a 12-incher.


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## cheflayne

I have never used Wusthof, so I can't comment on them, but my Henckels chef knife experienced 20 years of constant professional use and is still a great knife. During that time I found it to keep an edge well and easy to keep that way with a stone and steel. I think they are great knives. As for a Rockwell comparison number between Henckels and Wusthof, I have no idea.


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## harpua

Wusthof and my parents also just got us a Ceramic for a wedding gift. I love that thing! Cuts everything like butter! I'm just scared to use it; I might break it.


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## johnarmr

the ceramics are really sharp but very brittle and a pain to reshapren with out spec tools!


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## bluezebra

I have an 8" Henckle that I use all the time and an 11-1/2" Henckle that I use only sparingly.

I got a set of Victorinox/Forschner knives for a Christmas present about 2 years ago and I'm so surprised at how much I love all of them. I have no idea of the price on them but the little 6" chef is one of my all time favorites for summer veggies and so lightweight. And the paring knife fits my hand so well that I don't know why I ever used other paring knives before.

They take a stone nicely and tend to hold their edge as well as my Henckles and my one Wusthof (which I almost never use - boy is it a beast).


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## jannie

I have only within the last six months become a fan of the Japanese knives. You can get a Wustof or Henkels (German) extremely sharp but nothing like one of the Japanese knives I have...too sharp if you have kids in the house. On mine if you touch the blade, you've probably cut yourself. 

The down side with the Japanese knives is that they are wonderfully thin, but that also means that many of them cannot be used on deboning a chicken or a very hard squash shell, the knives can be brittle and chip the edge or even break the blade but I've not heard that one happening very often. You just have to be careful.

I use a 9 1/2" guyto/chef's and 3" paring for 95% of the work in the kitchen. I would also recommend a bread/slicer. 

The Wustof Classic and Henkels (German) knives are a good buy if you want a good knife without really getting "into knives". My gyuto (Japanese) was $255.00 and my paring $136.00 but you can get Tojiro DP knives for very little ($60-$80) and the steel is fantastic, the handles are blocky though but I filed/sanded mine down to where I wanted it.
Jannie


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## 9ballprodigy

i would also like to note that misono, masamoto, and hattori are all considered the creme de la creme of japanese chef's knives. misono being the brand that most professional chefs rave about. about 50% of my kitchen uses them. i just prefer the handle of a shun.


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## indianwells

I prefer Henckel's. I do have a Wusthof chefs knife but compared to the Henckel's it sounds somehow "tinny" when I use a steel on it.
Everyone will have different opinions but I guess it's just what feels right for each individual. As long as it feels good in your hand and does the job you want it to then, well, it's the right knife for you.


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## jigz369

My home set is my first set ever purchased. They are Henkells 4 Star. I now use Victoriaknox in my work kit. Both sets are wonderful. I left the Henkells at home as they fit my wife's hand better than my new Victoriaknox. Never had an issue with holding an edge either.


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## mannlicher

I have a fairly eclectic assortment of kitchen knives. I never have purchased a set of knives, but instead have bought the best I could find for the task I anticipated doing. Well, I have to admit that I buy knives on whim as well. 

When I was in Tokyo in 2005, I stocked up on some really good Aritsugu and Masamoto Japanese knives. I have a number of Sabatier carbon steel knives, Wustof Tridents, Henckles, Mundials, a few from SYSCO, and a half drawer full of assorted other blades. 

I have knives from 14 inch Chef knives, to tiny one inch blade garnish knives. Chinese cleavers, Santukos, and about everything in between. 

What ones do I use the most?
A 6 inch Henkle Chef
A 10 inch Carbon Steel Sabatier Chef
A generic Chinese Cleaver
A 4 inch Wustof paring knive
A 7 inch Wustof Santuko


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## frankie_b

I use an assortment of knives, from most to least used

Wusthoff Grand Prix Santoku 8"
Wusthoff Classic 12" chefs knice
Wusthoff Classic 7" boning knife
Wusthoff Classic 3" paring knice
Mundial 12" Serrated bread knife

I also just got a knife as a gift from my parents who were returnig from Tokyo, I have no idea the brand because there is no english on the box or the knive itself. I will try to post a pic, but I am new here so don't know if that is allowed.


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## frankie_b

I use an assortment of knives, from most to least used

Wusthoff Grand Prix Santoku 8"
Wusthoff Classic 12" chefs knice
Wusthoff Classic 7" boning knife
Wusthoff Classic 3" paring knice
Mundial 12" Serrated bread knife

I also just got a knife as a gift from my parents who were returnig from Tokyo, I have no idea the brand because there is no english on the box or the knive itself. I will try to post a pic, but I am new here so don't know if that is allowed.


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## jonowee

I have an variety of European and Japanese knives; Zwilling JA Henckels, F Dick, Victorinox, Tojiro and other sharp tools.

My favourite being an 8" Zwilling Four Star Cook's knife; not the sharpest but my favourite shape and size, I would like a firmer riveted full-tang handle and no bolster that extends down to the heel of blade :crazy:.

The sharpest would easily be my 210mm Tojiro F-520 Gyuto, I get seriously cranky when anyone else touches that knife!

The fave steel is my F. Dick 12" Dickoron Combi, what a beautiful tool.

Other favourites include...
- Fujiwara Kanefusa Honesuki boning knife which I use to fillet fish
- My cheap Victorinox flat edge paring knife (mini-Santoku)
- Tojiro 240mm DP Western Deba for attacking 'brick'-pumpkin and light effort chopping and mincing
- Monopol 'Rex' peeler

I'm getting a Microplane large ribbon shaver this week for quick and easy parmesan ribbons, should be a new favourite.


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## ninja_59

I use a 9 inch Victorinox & a smaller one of the same brand, I'm very satisfied


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## smalltruck

I'm left handed so it made a difference for me on what fit my hand. My Henkels 10" is nice but I bought a Kershaw Santuko because it was the first blade (well handle) that really fit my hand. That is my go to knife on almost everything. 
George


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## jayme

your knife is such a personal thing- it's what ever has the right "feel" for you and can hold up to the task.... 

I have an 8" chef's knife from Calphalon, that I just love.. so I bought a 6" chef's knife in the same line... then they discontinued the line.... 
not expensive but heavy enough and a handle that fits my hand...
so eventually I'll have to go shopping again....


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## shel

Coincidentally, I was at the small, local butcher and deli today, and one of the "regulars" came in and asked about knives. He wanted to get one for his 84yo mom. There were a few of us standing around and, of course, the owner and counter guy. Everyone had a preferenmce or two, and made good points as to why they preferred the knives they did. But, every one of us said the same thing: it's a personal thing, get what you like for the job intended.

Shel


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## headless chicken

I have J.A. Henckel's Professional 5-Star 6" Chef's knife, cleaver, boning knife, and utility knife with a 10" steel. I also bought from my school the generic chef's choice 8" chef's knife, bread knife, paring knife, and turning knife. I also keep a sharpening brick with oil in my kit, 5 years running and they're all still sharp as day one.


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## buzzard767

The only knife block set I own is Chicago Cutlery purchased 30 years ago. Presently, I use only Japanese and U.S. made custom made knives as well as some vintage carbon steel Thiers-Issard Sabatiers. I love them all. :smoking:

Buzz


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## chef richard

i owned  mundial primium fully forged for over 9 years very good product and the action with wrist top notch  

today i recived 2 forged 10''chef knife it pays of to have good quality productc


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## Iceman

LOL. Gotta lov'ya _*Richard*_. You've made your opening post in a thread that's over 3 years old since the last reply. Classic. Here are pics of my 2 main knives:



I think you can find them both on "Clearance" for $10 each. LOL @ ME.


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## chrislehrer

Yeah, kind of an old thread. But a legitimate question to update: what do people have that they actually use at least 50% of the days of the week? (That formulation should include both pros and home cooks, I figure.)

Me:

300mm blue steel, unknown maker, semi-custom yanagiba (long story)

225mm white steel Aritsugu Tsukiji usuba

150mm sanmai Aritsugu Kyoto petty

I also have a 270mm Masamoto gyuto that languishes because I'm currently hooked on the usuba, a good and a terrible deba, a little 195mm local maker yanagiba that does some work here and there, and a bunch of old Wusthof and other cr*p that I mostly use for brutality, cheese, and to open boxes -- but my wife is terrified of my Japanese knives so she uses them when (once in a while) she cooks something.


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## tylerm713

I have a 8" Global chef's that I use most often, but I also find myself using my Forschner rosewood chef's quite a bit as well.


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## gabs88

8" Global G2 here, and I love it. If you like the steel and thin blade but not the handle, you allso have the GF series which has a 8" chefs knife aswell. that one is more similar to MAC Professional with dimples. All 3 are excellent knives

And one think im noticing here, there's a lot of converts from European to Japanese knives, but not the other way around.  Except for my stupid roommate chef which has had pretty much all the japanese ones allready and now wants a WUSTHOF 8" for his next. I keep telling him that knife is simply not sharp but he's still gonna buy it once he snaps his next Global =p (And unfortunantly, quite a lot of people have had them snap over these past 25 years. But that might just count for other knives aswell)


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## chrislehrer

Wait... hang on. He wants to move _from_ Global _to_ Wusthof? And there is serious danger of him snapping the thing? Jeepers.

Normally, you'd say, "just hand him a truly sharp Japanese knife" -- not a Global but a major-league player -- but with this guy, who knows?

My suggestion is, encourage him to buy Forschner and Dexter Russell: same quality he's apparently looking for, but MUCH cheaper.


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## number2

Over the years i've built a collection of knifes that suit me. Got a victorinox carving knife, tomato knifes, a Sabatier chefs knife, 2 Sekiryu Deba Knifes, a Mac fish filleting knife, Global Swedish Filleting Knife, veg chopper, Paring Knife. Still got a couple of my college issue knife kicking about to. Waiting for a new Global ceramic sharpener to arrive.


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## Iceman

Last night I trimmed out about 20lbs. of hanger steak. It was the cleanest job I've ever done. Don't ask why or how because I've got no clue. I used a laser sharp _(by my standards/ability anyway)_ $1.59 petty from IKEA. In a coupla hours I'm gonna grill the stuff up and be even more happy. Go figure.


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## wagstaff

I'm going to follow suit and make a first post on an old thread too!

Up until relatively recently I was using a Spyderco santoku (this before I knew what a santoku was -- I just bought a kitchen knife from a weapons-knife catalogue!)  It's has never been sharpened, and therefore is no longer sharp.

Now:

1. Messermeister Meridian Elite 9" Chef's knife, which I bought under the influence of Chad Ward.  I like it a lot.

2. Wusthof Classic 10" Chef's knife, which was given to me (out of the blue) by a co-worker who "wasn't using it".  This taught me that I should have gotten the Messermeister in 10" in the first place. It is pretty redundant with the first knife.  I use it more if I'm cutting lots of sweet potatoes or winter squashes, where the extra length is helpful for volume.

3. Petty knife from Togiharu (which I'll need someone else to reprofile, or "open up" before I'm ever to sharpen it myself)

4. parers - a Tojiro DP, which is fine for what it is, but I bought it on price point, before I knew I didn't like the tip (too close too sheep's foot, which I like less); a F. Dick 1905, and some plastic-handled cheapies, the best of which is a Capehart Cutlery item that cost a couple of bucks and has been very sharp and pointy from the beginning.  Also a cheap set of chinese-made Henckels that came as a set (a tourne included, and a... I dunno, I suppose it's a tomato knife? A serrated super flexible thing that I have no idea what to do with).

90% of what I do is with the Messermeister or with the Capehart parer.

Lusting after carbon Sabatiers and various Japanese knives as well after lurking for several weeks on this forum.  Though that feels like an illness.  I really don't have a need to spend money on knives given my limited skill set and the amount of cooking I do.  I did order a combination stone (1000/4000) from JCK and  have some unpracticed knowledge from Chad Ward's book, this forum, and the Korin sharpening DVD.

Edit: Just got in a JCK CarboNext 240mm gyuto yesterday, so it's early to tell in any detail, but so far I'm pretty sure it's my "go to" knife aside from splitting kabocha squashes and such.  Super light, thin, sharp blade (I'm sure it'll get sharper when I get to be a better sharpener, too!)


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## ruscal

nice thread 

i like that the more i read, the more it seems like i need either some MAC Pro or Masamoto knives. Although if i was gonna replace my knives (which up until recently i was very ready to do) i'd probably lean more towards the Misono UX 10 or the Tojiro Sunkou. Cause they look prettier. 

this is my current knife rack: http://dl.dropbox.comhttps://cheftalk.com/members/6634650"myEventWatcherDiv" style="display:none;">


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## ozziegirl

[h1]Scanpan classic 4pc knife block set and when I did my traineeship the top chef gave me as a end of working with him present a Zanger Icel chef knife which I gave to my mum to use..It's got a wooden handle and I've never seen a better knife then that one.. It's always sharp, I only sharpen it maybe once a year and my mum uses it all the time.. My mum has been using since 2003.[/h1]


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## gumbo

Spent 20 years dedicated to Henkels (sp?) but have slowly converted to all Japanese Knives.

I have a set of globals at home and am building a set of Michel Bras at work.  I'm up to 5 Bras and am planning on one a month then buying his small wares.


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## boar_d_laze

Chef's Kinfe/Gyuto:

12" K-Sabatier au carbone
270mm Konosuke HD
10" K-Sabatier au carbone (two)
7" Thiers-Issard "Nogent"
Slicers:

300mm Konosuke HD
10" K-Sabatier au carbone
Bread:

10-1/2" MAC Superior
8" (early 70s) Henckels
Petties:

150mm Konosuke SS
6" TI "Nogent" slicer
Butchering:

Forschner 10" Cimeter
Forschner 7" Wide Fillet
TI carbon stiff boning knife (desosseur profile)
Henckels (early 70s) stainless boning knife
Chicago Cutlery (mid 60s) heavy, carbon cleaver
Paring:

4" K-Sabatier au carbone
4" TI carbon, "German" prototype
(4) Forschners, including a sheep's food, a bec d'oiseau, and two "couteau office," all of which would need replacement if used for anything besides opening packages and cutting string.
Linda sometimes uses paring knives, so I keep them sharp and in the block, but I prefer to use use one of the petties or the small, Nogent chef's. Don't confuse me with super-chef. If I were cutting fou-fou, garde manger shapes, I'd use a paring knife. But, thank God...

Forks:

Henckels Meat Fork
Peelers:

Oxo swing type (for my wife)
99cent type (for me)
Mandoline:

Joyce Chen
Jacard:

Cuisinart three row
Sharpening Equipment:

Two steels -- 12" Hand American Borosilicate rod, and 12" (early 70s) Henckels fine steel
Complete 4 stone water stone set
Complete 4 stone oil stone kit.
EP Apex "Chosera" kit
DMT XXC diasharp plate (for flattening only)
Mid to high-polish loaded strop kit
That's just the stuff which gets used. There's more(?!) boxed up in the garage.

BDL


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## boar_d_laze

C'mon guys!  What's in your block? 

Save me from my thread-kill guilt,

BDL


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## wagstaff

I was intimidated by your bullet points.  I don't know how to do that, here.  I'm over it.

Yoshihiro (stainless) 270mm gyuto

Kagayaki CarboNext 240mm gyuto

T-I Sabatier "Nogent" 10" cook's knife

Wusthof Classic 10" cook's knife (this is not a chef de chef in "real life", but that's sort of its function in this collection).

Gesshin Ginga (Ashi) 210mm suji/petty

T-I Sabatier Nogent 6" slicer

Togiharu 6" petty

TojiroDP 4" parer (essentially sheeps-foot)

T-I Sabatier Nogent 3" parer

couple of plastic-handled parers, (Forschner and Henckels International I believe) including a bird's beak that is virtually unused.

Some red handled, very flexible serrated thing, "tomato knife" maybe? I think it's a Henckels International that was part of a set with the parer, but I could be mistaken.

Board scraper (does this count?)

Gesshin 400 grit stone

Combo 1K/4K stone from JCK

Gesshin 5000 grit stone

12" ceramic rod

Things in a cupboard that don't get much use -

a 10" very (very) wide chef's knife made by a local sharpener guy, cost 12 bucks, would be a recommendation to those who are on a budget and won't do their own sharpening.

a CCK carbon cleaver, not sure model number.


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## cheflayne

at work: MAC 8" professional series chef, MAC 10 1/2" superior series bread, Henckel 14" super fection series hollow edge slicer


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## racineboxer

Mac Pro 250mm gyuto

Messermeister Meridian Elite 9" chef's

Hattori HD 150mm petty

Shun classic 7" Santoku

Tojiro ITK 270mm bread

Chicago Cutlery 3.5" parer


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## phatch

I run on the lower $ side of the market.

A 10" Henkels I bought to replace the 10" wusthof I snapped when I dropped it. The Wusthof was better, but the Henkels is OK. Probably the oldest knife in my block, 12 years or so.

10" Forschner bread knife

9" New West Bread Knife

8" Forshner chef's knife

8" Ikea VG10 chef Surprisingly good knife for the price. Would love a 10" version. Kinda ugly though.

8" Forschner Chinese Chef

Two 6" petty from New West

Forschner paring knife

Ikea parer, in the same line as the VG10 chefs, but not in VG10. Still a pretty good vanadium steel and I like the blade shape a lot.

There are a few other blades that make appearances now and then.

An all steel Chinese chef/cleaver for bone hacking. Thicker than a true Chinese Chef, but not as thick as western cleaver.

A carbon steel "French Peasant's Knife" from Lee Valley

A junky 7" boning knife. I keep putting it in the good will box and my wife keeps pulling it out to do something in the kitchen.


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## pohaku

Mac Pro 240mm gyuto
Tojiro DP 210mm gyuto
Tojiro Shirogami ITK 210mm gyuto (waiting for the 240mm)
Wusthof Classic 8" chef
Wusthof Classic 6" chef
Mac Chef series 8" chef

Mac Chef series petty
Tojiro DP petty
Tojiro Shirogami ITK 120mm petty
Sabatier Nogent 6" petty
Wusthof Classic 6" slicer
Wusthof Classic 8" slicer
Henckels Twin Cermax 5" utility
Carbon steel 270mm yanagi
F. Dick ham slicer

Wusthof Super Slicer
Tojiro ITK bread knife
Wusthof Classic bread knife

Wusthof straight boning knife
Forschner flexible straight boning knife
Norpro flexible filleting knife
Wusthof serrated tomato knife

CCK small cleaver
CCK Bone Cutter cleaver
Mac Pro nakiri
Deba

Assorted cheap paring knives (Forschner, etc)
Forschner Birds Beak Rosewood paring knife
Wusthof Classic paring knives in several sizes
Tojiro DP paring knife
Couple pairs of Wusthof kitchen shears
Poultry shears
Assorted peelers, although the one I like best is an old, cheap Ekco with a carbon steel blade - the current Ekco carbon steel model is terrible and not worth purchasing
I've had the Wusthofs forever - got a few as a wedding gift 34 years ago and picked up a bunch more when a local department store clearanced them to replace them with Henckels. Been buying mostly Japanese knives for the last 8 years or so. Some of these live in my traveling knife roll that gets taken camping, visiting relatives and to time shares, etc. - handy to have a set of knives already arranged for that purpose.


----------



## willbkool

Wusthof Classic 10" Chefs
Henckels Pro S 8" Chefs
Henckels Pro S 6" Chefs
Wusthof Classic 7" Fillet
Henckels Pro S 3" Paring
Henckels Pro S 9" Bread
Henckels Pro S 7" Boning
Henckels Pro S 10" Slicer
Henckels Pro S 5" Utility

Bron Mandoline
I had a Global Chef knife, around 8", and it was sharp, but didn't like the handle. The Henckels and Wusthofs feel right in my hand. I also have a set of Forschners I bought for school, as I was told that knifes can walk away. They're decent and do most jobs well, and if someone steals them, so what?

I've had the Henckels for a long time, and bought them when they were relatively cheap compared to now. I bought the 6" Henckels chef just a few years ago when a store went out of business and I really like it. I take it with me when I go to people's houses that may not have any decent knifes, and I can do just about any job with it. Of course, it almost never gets used at home.

I've used other people's knifes and I really like the MAC Pros, they are close to a European knife in feel, and are very sharp. Of course, I have no problems with sharpening knifes as I have been doing it for years, and I am happy with the way my Henckels and Wusthofs cut.


----------



## chefp

I have several, but the one I use mostly is an 8 inch JA Henckels that I bought for 1/2 price at the Williams-Sonoma Outlet.  Some people swear by the Santoku knives.  I can't seem to use them as well.


----------



## dennie

8" Zwilling Cronidur
4" Paring Zwilling Cronidur Knife
6" some Henckels Santoku Knife (bought it from Walmart) - my first knife 
10" Mercer Cutlery Forged Riveted Chef Knife
3" Mercer Cutlery Paring Knife
6" Mercer Cutlery Boning Knife
12" Mercer Cutlery Serrated Knife
All the Mercer Cutlery was from my culinary school.

Newest addition:

Suisin INOX Honyaki Gyuto 240mm


----------



## jaredstone

i have a miyabi kaizen chef as my go to knife, and the rest are a random assortment from wusthof to chicago cutlery


----------



## chrislehrer

As time goes on, I seem to be simplifying:

300mm blue steel yanagiba (secret maker, extremely high quality, long story)

195mm yellow steel (?) yanagiba (minor local maker)

210mm white steel Aritsugu (Tsukiji) usuba

210mm black Aritsugu (Kyoto) deba

105mm Masamoto KS deba

OXO peeler

some sorta somethin-er-other bread knife thing

weird but functional serrated cheese knife thing

um....

I have a box grater. Does that count?


----------



## jimbo68

Most of my knife work is done with either a Tojiro DP Nakiri or a Kantesune 240 Gyuto.  While I have others, I generally reach for one or the other.  IMO the most overrated knife is the Santuko, the most underrated the Nakiri. 

I keep several Forschners left over from my packing house days.  IMO they are the best of the inexpensive knives.  As value packed J knives, I would prefer the DP.


----------



## wagstaff

I've not used a Nakiri. What makes that knife more appealing than a gyuto at any given time? I keep thinking more knife types would be cool but then don't know when I'd pick them up instead of a gyuto.


----------



## jimbo68

What I like about the Nakiri is that while it is a relatively flat blade edge, the tip is rounded and the knife glides back and forth along the cutting board.  Somewhat like cutting on a meat slicer or mandoline.  It also has a large enough surface to scoop up the product.

The Nakiri is designed as a vegetable slicer, but works well for meat for me.  Like many knives, it works best if very sharp.  You don't want to saw with it.

I'm a fan of the DP line from Tojiro.  OOTB the knife is as sharp as any I have.  I don't sharpen my own knives, but send them to a very good sharpener, including new knives.  He suggested I use this one without his services.  He was right.


----------



## wagstaff

Thanks, jimbo,


----------



## dcarch

I make my own.

dcarch


----------



## wagstaff

Those are some wild looking blades. I'm going to make a wild guess that you make lots of knives that are not kitchen knives, too (?)


----------



## lennyd

Wagstaff said:


> I've not used a Nakiri. What makes that knife more appealing than a gyuto at any given time? I keep thinking more knife types would be cool but then don't know when I'd pick them up instead of a gyuto.


When I read this first thought I had is how does the nakiri compare to the usuba?

Could this knife be the answer to the various problems some relate to a usuba, or are they too very different?


> Most of my knife work is done with either a Tojiro DP Nakiri or a Kantesune 240 Gyuto. While I have others, I generally reach for one or the other. IMO the most overrated knife is the Santuko, the most underrated the Nakiri.


Being my Tojiro DP santoku is close to being my second most used knife (running close with a 120mm, and due to the fact I do a good amount of quick small jobs, and sometimes on a smallish board) I have to wonder if a nakiri could possibly change this?


----------



## nicholas mann

I have a Shun Kaji 12" chefs that I use for most tasks. I find that Japanese steel just holds a sharper edge, and longer than the German knives. Love the handle design on the Shun as well as someone mentioned before. I would never go back to a more traditional style handle after using my Shun.


----------



## jimbo68

LennyD said:


> When I read this first thought I had is how does the nakiri compare to the usuba?
> 
> Could this knife be the answer to the various problems some relate to a usuba, or are they too very different?
> 
> Being my Tojiro DP santoku is close to being my second most used knife (running close with a 120mm, and due to the fact I do a good amount of quick small jobs, and sometimes on a smallish board) I have to wonder if a nakiri could possibly change this?
> 
> I'm a cook, nor a knife expert, so my comments indicate what works best for me.
> 
> When I refer to a Nakiri, I am referring specifically to my DP clad Nakiri, a knife with a VG 10 core and a softer single layer exterior, as opposed to my Kanetsunes, which are a VG 10 core with a 16 layer exterior. I think the Rockwell numbers are similar in both cases, so the big difference I observe is in appearance, not performance. The K's are slightly biased but not enough for me, a leftie, to notice. For me, the big advantage of the nakiri in slicing is that it never has to be raised from the cutting board or the angle changed to return the blade for a new cut. The wide blade also allows me to use my off hand thumb as a thickness guage and safety block, and makes a good scoop for the finished produce. This is due to the rounded cutting edge instead of a tip. The usubas I have seen have a squared point, which will dig into the board when reversed. In addition, the usuba's I have seen have a chisel blade, which makes if unusable for me.
> 
> My santoku is also a Kanetsune (100 series), with a VG 10 core. All are equally sharp. For me the santoku is a compromise knife, and just does not feel right to me.
> 
> I agree that any knife must be sharp to maximize its use. This especially true for the nakiri, as you want the knife to glide smoothly through a veggie without pressure or resistance. I do not sharpen myself, preferring to use the services of a very good professional sharpener. I agree with the CKTG list, and Rob Babcock sharpened my knives before Mark created his list. It works for me. The minor inconvenience of a a week or so turnaround is offset by not having a new hobby with its new box of tools. I do use an 1200/8K King for minor touch ups.
> 
> As stated, all this works for me. I prefer the nikiri and/or the gyuto for 90% of my cutting. I think it really boils down to what works for you. The knife should feel right to you and not intimidate. Nakiri vs Santuko is a personal preference.


----------



## lennyd

Jumbo

That all makes sense, and a nikiri and also a Chinese cleaver are two of the knives least like what I have used but also both on my future wish list.

Thanks for your input, and never worry about not being an expert as personally at least I have found non professional reviews very helpful as the info seems much more useful as the experience level may be more similar etc. Not to take anything away from professional reviews and just that some of the things important to one is not always the same with the other.


----------



## jimbo68

A Chinese cleaver is a knife that I will someday buy on impulse, although I can't tell you why.  I have heard good things about the CCK, a cheap Chinese that apparently has good steel but is poorly finished.  I someday will buy one and see if it can be made into an excellent knife with a little tweaking.

Anybody have one of these?


----------



## wagstaff

I think the CCK is good geometry for a cleaver, not particularly good steel. You pay a lot more for a more finished handle. I have one. I learned that I'm a gyuto person. Some people are cleaver people.


----------



## ben 1986

Last year i toke my first head chefs job. my trusty victornox set had taken me on a good session in the years but i though i would treat myself to a couple of shuns. yes they were costly at the time. but from my first day in my new kitchen i new they were well worth the money. Ben


----------



## ceressa

I collected Wusthof knives and love my 5" & 8" chef knives. I like the weight and the way they fit my hand. I have been cooking for nearly 50 years and have had good luck with these knives. They hold an edge very well for me.


----------



## curtispnw

I have used both henckel and wusthof 8 in, classic, I think the wusthof holds an edge longer


----------



## need2cook

My Grandpy loved Henckel knifes so when It came time to look for my own knives I got a 8" chef from the 4star series; loved it so much that I immediately purchased the accompanying set. I have tried using dozens of knifes and none of them fit in my hand like the 4stars.


----------



## mano

*Chef's Knife/Gyuto:*

* 240mm Konosuke HD*

* 240mm Takeda AS*

*Slicer*

* 270mm Honsho Kanemasa E-Series Sujihiki*

*Bread*

* 10-1/2" MAC Superior*

*Petty*

* 180mm Honosuke HD*

*Yanagiba*

*Masamoto shiro ko takobiki*



*Butchering*

* 150mm Tojiro Honesuki *

* WM Beatty & Son #1 (turn of the century) heavy carbon cleaver*

*Sharpening Equipment*

*No name diamond plate*

* Beston 500*

* Shapton 1000 and 4000 glass stone*

* Home made balsa "strop"*


----------



## ntosaj

Alright, late to the party as usual but in an attempt to keep the thread kicking (and dodge finals) this is my collection:

-10 inch Sabatier TI Nogent Chef's (Carbon)

-8 inch Wusthof Ikon Chef's (SS)

-8 inch Sabatier Lion Rampant Chef's (SS)

-8 inch Sabatier Lion Rampant Carving Knife (SS)

-~7 1/2 inch Sabatier 2 Lions Chef's (SS)

-~6 inch Sabatier 2 Lions Utility Knife (SS)

-~6 inch K Sabatier Utility Knife (SS)

-~6 inch K Sabatier Cleaver (SS)

-~10 inch TI Bread knife? (Not quite sure, I'll post pics at one point) (SS)

-3 inch Wusthof Classic petty (SS)

-3 inch mysterious Sabatier with Brass bolster (possibly quite old, the handle had rotted off) (SS)

-2x 3 inch Victorinox Petty knives (SS)

A bit too much stainless steel for me but my total cost was 300$ (Canadian, 120 of which was for the Nogent)

Not bad for a student if I may say so myself!


----------



## williamchan87

too many knives, many are custom made from aritsugu, sugimoto, and sets of masahiros etc.


----------



## denverveggienut

CCK 1303 Chinese #3 slicer/cleaver, carbon-steel
San Han Nga Chinese #2 cleaver, carbon-steel (heavier-duty than CCK for tougher stuff)
Tojiro ITK 120mm petty, white #2
Fujiwara FKM 150mm petty, stainless
Henckels Twin Four Star 80mm paring, stainless
Sharpening- Beston 500, Bester 1200, Suehiro Rika 5000, Idahone 1200 rod. $180 of sharpening supplies for $150 of knives. That's about right, actually!

I'd like to re-handle the Tojiro. D-shaped handles, plastic ferrules and lefty me don't all get along very well. At some point, I'll probably add a bread knife (Forschner or MAC), and a 240mm gyuto. And maybe upgrade to the Richmond take on the cleaver in 52100 steel. But for now I'm quite happy, so no hurry.


----------



## twyst

Konosuke HD 240 gyuto

Masamoto KS 240 gyuto 

Konosuke 120 petty

moritaka 150 petty

Takeda 150 honesuki

Mac superior 10.5 inch bread knife

wusthof ikon  boning knife

Shun paring knife

Is what is currently in my knife roll.


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## mundialman

I use a set of forged Mundial knives, as well as a traveling set of forged Mundial when I'm cooking at someone's house. I also own Wusthof, Shun, Messermeister, Mercer, Henkels and Forshner. I became so involved in chef's cutlery that I made a business out of it. Without any sample or inventory of knives I have over 70 besides the two sets of Mundial.


----------



## thierry reverse

Global. there is none better in my opinion


----------



## wannabgourmande

I actually inherited my great-grandpa's butcher knife set. They're Rogers brand? The full 8-pc set, complete with carver/slicer, 8" Chef, utility, parer, boner...etc. They're like 70 years old at this point and are still pretty dang sharp. One of the Chefs at my work suggested I buy some new ones, but I'm REALLY attached to these guys, considering they're an heirloom. Gotta go down to Ambrosi Brothers soon and get 'em sharpened, actually...


----------



## lennyd

Thierry Reverse said:


> Global. there is none better in my opinion


Curious what others you have used that you believe the Globals are better than, and what is better in your opinion.

Purpose of the question is that I have found the more quality knives I try the more My opinion changes or adapts.


----------



## kristel wyman

so far, i have (all from the wusthof classic series): a chef's knife, a santoku, a big bread knife and a paring knife.  i think i'm mostly set for knives.


----------



## phaedrus

Currently in my daily use work case:

Tojiro- 240mm Western Deba, Gokujo boning knife, ITK bread knife & Honosuke.

Kagayaki- CarboNext 300mm Suji & CN 240mm Gyuto.

Moritaka KS.

Tanaka Blue Steel Nakiri.

Akifusa 240mm Gyuto (SRS-15 hagane).

Nubatama 240mm Ryuba.


----------



## french dough

Current Working Bag

-Suisin Honyaki Wa Gyuto 270mm

-Sugimoto Cleaver 22cm

-Yoshikane Mioroshi Deba 255mm

-Aritsugu Wa Garasuki 180mm

-Mr Itou 65mm Stag Handle Paring


----------



## ewrd

fujiwara fkm 240mm gyuto 
tojiro dp 90mm petty

just bought these and are the only two I use right now, planning on buying the tojiro bread knife


----------



## luis j

Forchners, globals, Dexters, Tramontina, Wusties and Henkels... All of them now absolutely neglected and in my block the ones that rule are the following:

Mac gyuto...My all around knife

Konosuke HD gyuto... My favorite.

3 Tojiro shirogami. A Nakiri, a santoku and a petty.

Forchner/Victorinox bread knife and butcher knife.

That's it... And a Masamoto HC is on the way


----------



## kristopher

Misono Swedish steel 270mm gyuto is my at home knife and I use my k sabatier 8 " knives as my line knives I have a really small cutting area on my line so the sabatiers are a great length.





  








IMG_0526.JPG




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kristopher


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Jan 23, 2013


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3


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## boar_d_laze

Wow Kristopher!  Gorgeous patinas.  How did you do them?

BDL


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## kristopher

I used yellow mustard and used the tip of my pocket knife to make the tendrils. I can post the picturess of the mustard doing its work but my internet connection is unrelyable so i have to upload them later.





  








IMG_0523.JPG




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kristopher


__
Jan 23, 2013


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1


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## kristopher

I used yellow mustard and used the tip of my pocket knife to make the tendrils. I can post the picturess of the mustard doing its work but my internet connection is unrelyable so i have to upload them later.





  








IMG_0523.JPG




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kristopher


__
Jan 23, 2013


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1


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## scubadoo97

That's wicked Kristopher. Amazing hand work on the patina


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## coup-de-feu

That is really neat looking work, Kristopher.  I just purchased the same sabatier knife and now I want mine to look like that.  How did you do that?  Is it just as easy as putting the mustard on?  How long do you leave it on?  

Do tell.

CDF


----------



## coup-de-feu

I don't have these knives. But I love the concept. Especially practical for a traveling chef.





  








Gamme-Meeting3.jpg




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coup-de-feu


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Jan 24, 2013








http://www.deglon.com/outils_pros/gamme_Meeting_fr.php?id_gama=119


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## michaelga

Damn...those are pretty cool.

Both the stacking knives and Kristopher's creation.

Waiting to hear more about those!


----------



## kristopher




----------



## whostommy

Most of my knives are Japanese, with my favorites being my 8.25" Tojiro gyuto and my 8" handmade santoku from Watanabe blade. I've got a left-handed set from Watanabe that I love.


----------



## deputy

Kristopher said:


>


Kudos to you for the artistry. That's pretty awesome. Makes me want to rush out and buy a full carbon blade and some mustard!


----------



## vic cardenas

My current arsenal has recently expanded...

Sakai Takayuki Grand Cheff 240mm Gyuto (just got this)

Wustoff Silverpoint bread knife (I got this for $3 at a flea market in Hawaii; it's pretty sweet for the price)

Fujiwara Kanefusa FKM Sujihiki 270mm

Sakai Takayuki Hammered Damascus Nakiri 160mm

Forschner Flacid Boner

Henckles serrated utility (I found this between the cushions of a couch in a hotel)

Wustoff Gourmet 8" chefs

Fiskars paring





  








SAM_1588_zps46e4b273.jpg




__
vic cardenas


__
Jan 24, 2013


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## deputy

Vic Cardenas said:


> My current arsenal has recently expanded...
> 
> Forschner Flacid Boner


/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif/img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif

Hilarious. I love the internet sometimes.


----------



## pollopicu

I recently received this (Victorinox) as a christmas present, and so far I love it. Has a great natural curve grip, is light-weight, lighter than the wusthof chef knife I believe. I haven't attempted to sharpen it yet, not until I can purchase a Japanese whetstone. The stone I have right now is crap, and I wouldn't dare use it on my new knife.


----------



## charlotte40

For me, the more suitable knives to work with accuracy and speed are GLOBAL and PORSCHE TYPE 301 ones. Indeed, they are expensive but they are also strong and reliable. I have never regretted my purchase.


----------



## kristopher

I left it on for 2 hours. You can visabley see the patina so wash the knife when its where you like it.The iphone cant do these patinas justice they are glossy blue and purple coloration that is hard to get on its camera. Wayne Goddards patina method is a detailed really layered this is a huge deviation from that as i only did one later but you can get detailed instructions on how to do a wg patina on the knife forums.

BDL the ksab in the picture was the blade that one of my coworkers damaged. I decided i needed to know how to to it so i just ground it back and repaired it. It was a long process but really rewarding.





  








IMG_0029.JPG




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kristopher


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Feb 6, 2012


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## thumper1279

The School i have Decided to go to is going to be supplying Mercer Cutlery 

usually i just go with what ever looks cool when i shop for cutlery 

for home use 

is Mercer a good quality or since the school is using it is it going to be a  beginning learning set not something really great ? 

the few things school does  not supply and recommends we get on our own 

was a straight  fork 

a bench scrap an oyster knife 

birds beak knife 

kitchen shears 

fish tweezers 

so the ones i have been looking at on amazon where i order most my things from 

iv been looking at what has good reviews 

so far I'm looking at 

OXO  good drip oyster knife 

Kitchen aid Kitchen Shears 

a Mercer 6 inch straight fork 

kotobuki Japanese fish tweezers 

winware stainless steel dough scraper 

are these a smart choice in others opinions or is there something El's i should be going with ? 

thank you


----------



## boar_d_laze

Mercer is better than most of what you'll find at Target, but that's not saying much. The knives are made from an inferior alloy (X45CrMoV15) which is only considered "high carbon," because the German steel industry watered down the term specifically to grandfather it in so knife makers like Mercer could advertise their use of "high carbon, German steel."

Mercer knives take a fair, but not good edge; one which requires EXTREMELY frequent steeling. Mercers are good enough to re-sharpen, but barely so. On the other hand, they hold up to abuse well.

Whoever tells you that Mercers are "good," either doesn't know much about knives or is getting a piece of the action. In the case of the school, it's probably both. Be glad they're not trying to sell you _As Seen on TV Chef Tony Miracle Blades_.

If it's possible to do so, I suggest buying other knives. As a sort of generic recommendation for a student kit, buy a good, but sub $100, chef's knife (Richmond Artifex would be an excellent choice); Forschner Fibrox for everything else; a "fine" Idahone ceramic steel, and a sharpening gag (if you don't know how to sharpen on bench stones) which will sharpen everything to 15*.

The other tools you're asking about aren't really knives. Your choices are okay.

BDL


----------



## chrisbecooking

I use wusthof classic and shun Ken onion knives almost exclusively they're amazing sets


----------



## thumper1279

boar_d_laze said:


> Mercer is better than most of what you'll find at Target, but that's not saying much. The knives are made from an inferior alloy (X45CrMoV15) which is only considered "high carbon," because the German steel industry watered down the term specifically to grandfather it in so knife makers like Mercer could advertise their use of "high carbon, German steel."
> 
> Mercer knives take a fair, but not good edge; one which requires EXTREMELY frequent steeling. Mercers are good enough to re-sharpen, but barely so. On the other hand, they hold up to abuse well.
> 
> Whoever tells you that Mercers are "good," either doesn't know much about knives or is getting a piece of the action. In the case of the school, it's probably both. Be glad they're not trying to sell you _As Seen on TV Chef Tony Miracle Blades_.
> 
> If it's possible to do so, I suggest buying other knives. As a sort of generic recommendation for a student kit, buy a good, but sub $100, chef's knife (Richmond Artifex would be an excellent choice); Forschner Fibrox for everything else; a "fine" Idahone ceramic steel, and a sharpening gag (if you don't know how to sharpen on bench stones) which will sharpen everything to 15*.
> 
> The other tools you're asking about aren't really knives. Your choices are okay.
> 
> BDL


awesome thank you for your response on this much appreciated for the information


----------



## lennyd

Thumper just keep an open mind and work your way up to improved quality. That way you reduce the risk of buyers remorse, loss and even theft.

Also there enough good quality choices in the sub $100 market to make your head spin lol so no sense locking yourself into one item, and it only makes sense that while your learning you will gain experience that will help you decide what is important to you and help you to make a decision in the future.


----------



## boar_d_laze

Lenny, I seldom disagree with your insights but fear this time you may be clouding the issues. 


> [T]here enough good quality choices in the sub $100 market to make your head spin lol


Not really.

There's one obvious best choice (two if you count each handle type as a choice) commonly available in the US, in the sub $50 range:

Victorinox (aka Forschner) Fibrox; and Victorinox (aka Forschner) Rosewood (which, in case it needs repetition, are the same knives with different handles).
There are just a few other 240mm/10" knives in the $50 - $100 range which are enough better than a Victorinox to be worth the difference in price. The only ones I can think of (offhand and in alphabetical order) are:

Fujiwara FKM;
Kagayaki Basic;
Richmond Artifex; and
Tojiro DP.
Remember, we're looking for something suitable for cooking school, and that means stainless, comfortable handle, good edge taking, good edge holding, steels well, and is sufficiently stout to take huge helpings of inevitable abuse. Not that there aren't other knives in the world, but I didn't recommend the Artifex lightly or for any reason other than superior suitability given the circumstances. 


> so no sense locking yourself into one item, and it only makes sense that while your learning you will gain experience that will help you decide what is important to you and help you to make a decision in the future.


Thumper's looking for something to take to cooking school, not for a lifetime companion. He's not only got to "lock himself" into a chef's knife and whatever other blades he needs for the coming semester, but must do it fairly quickly.

BDL


----------



## coup-de-feu

Does any one else like Kiwi knifes?  They make a vegetable cleaver which cost between six and eight dollars and is indispensable in my knife kit.  I have not found a vegetable cleaver that I like more than this one.  Granted they have a rat-tail tang, really cheap handles, and no bolster so you end up with a chef callus the size of a pinto bean.  But they last years, always take an edge and are easy to maintain.  Kiwi also makes a knife that looks like a steak knife but it is a little longer, it has good flex so you can use it as a fillet sole and it cost like three dollars.  You wouldn't want to break down a primal with Kiwi knives, but for veg they are great.


----------



## lennyd

BDL though much more precisely explained I have humbly disagree with some of that.

First though I agree SS would be the most sensible choice I also understand fully sensibility is not what drives everyone to their final decision and have learned from places like this that many times a buyers choice was very different than expected etc.

Just the two groups you list set the initial long list at 6 and this omitted most of the well known German brands (though not normally a part of my typical suggestions still desired and used by many etc) and all the similar designed brands from all over , and also most of what thumper would find inn a eBay search for 240mm gyuto or 10 inch chefs etc.

When I made the initial comment I kept thinking about the various influences anyone normally has on what is a good knife, and how much more complicated this may become from all the different opinions that he is going to see at a culinary school. 

I can definitely see how this could get confusing real fast and be even more so than it is for the many home cooks seeking help etc.

Another thing that I kept thinking was that the school is already "pushing" their brands etc and much as I agree with the popular Forschner recommendations etc it just seemed to make more sense to"step up" higher since he would already be getting a lower end set that would allow to learn etc and much as I agree the Forschner to be a great value etc I just feel there are other interesting possible choices that could be preferred by thumper and even end up still being used after finishing school if there still around. 

It's all good and I think we may find we agreed more than not in the end


----------



## slypig5000

Sabatier 10" one of the older (I lnow its hard to date them exactly but I believe its pre wwII) is my go to knife right now. It has its quarks but I love it. I've owned and regularly used Wustof knives up until three or four years ago when I made the switch to better Japanese knives, which the Germans just can't compete with, in my opinion. I'm also a pretty big fan of high carbon knives now, so much easier to sharpen then stainless for me. I think that my next big purchase is going to be a 240mm konosuke gyuto.


----------



## boar_d_laze

> Just the two groups you list set the initial long list at 6 and this omitted most of the well known German brands


My two lists omitted ALL of the German brands. Good 10" Germans cost more than $100. Cheap 10" Germans are crap.


> and also most of what thumper would find inn a eBay search for 240mm gyuto or 10 inch chefs etc.


As always, "used" is an entirely different thing. There's a limit to the recommendations I (or anyone) can give, or the sense I can make out of a universe which allows as much complication as you can give it. 


> When I made the initial comment I kept thinking about the various influences anyone normally has on what is a good knife, and how much more complicated this may become from all the different opinions that he is going to see at a culinary school. I can definitely see how this could get confusing real fast and be even more so than it is for the many home cooks seeking help etc.


Fair enough. My sense of Thumper's post led me to trying to help him choose a set of knives which will help him through school and for the next couple of years. I've already got scores of posts on Chef Talk which discuss how to think about knives and how to choose them from a more general perspective. It was my understanding that Thumper simply wants to know if Mercers were a good choice (they aren't), what might be if they weren't (Forschner, Fujiwara, Kagayaki, Richmond, and Tojiro), and had some questions about a few pieces of non-knife "cutlery" as well.

It seemed as though he sought simple answers, but it's possible I misunderstood. If Thumper wants more background he'll ask. 


> Another thing that I kept thinking was that the school is already "pushing" their brands etc and much as I agree with the popular Forschner recommendations etc it just seemed to make more sense to"step up" higher since he would already be getting a lower end set that would allow to learn etc and much as I agree the Forschner to be a great value etc I just feel there are other interesting possible choices that could be preferred by thumper and even end up still being used after finishing school if there still around.


I very seldom suggest Victorinox/Forschner chef's knives as a go-to gyuto, and did not here. All I said about Victorinox/Forschner chef's knives were that they were the obvious choice in the under $50 set. On the other hand, I do and did recommend Victorinox/Forschner Fibrox/Rosewood for the other profiles cooking schools want their students to use in class. They're as good as it gets when it comes to meat knives; while the small knives are cheap and adequate.

I recommended spending more than $50 for a chef's -- although didn't explain why -- and named the Richmond Artifex as the best choice for cooking school over the other "best, sub $100" knives I mentioned -- Fujiwara FKM, Kagayaki Basic ES, and Tojiro DP -- for reasons I already gave.

BDL


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## boar_d_laze

slypig5000 said:


> Sabatier 10" one of the older (I lnow its hard to date them exactly but I believe its pre wwII) is my go to knife right now. It has its quarks but I love it. I've owned and regularly used Wustof knives up until three or four years ago when I made the switch to better Japanese knives, which the Germans just can't compete with, in my opinion. I'm also a pretty big fan of high carbon knives now, so much easier to sharpen then stainless for me. I think that my next big purchase is going to be a 240mm konosuke gyuto.


New production and NOS Sabatier carbons worth owning (such as K-Sabatier au carbone, Mexeur et Cie au carbone, Thiers-Issard carbon, and the Thiers-Issard Nogent) cost more than $100.

As to the older knives, it's usually pretty easy to date them to the nearest decade especially if they've got any engraving on the blade or handle. Post a picture and/or tell me where and how you got it, and I'll see what I can do for you.

"High carbon" doesn't mean what you think it does. All steel is a mix of iron, carbon and sometimes some other elements. "High carbon" is not the opposite of "stainless." As an industry term of art, it means the steel alloy has at least 0.50% carbon by weight; and fwiw many stainless steel alloys qualify as "high carbon."

There are four broad classifications of steels based on rust and stain resistance. Again, using terms of art, they are: Stainless; Stain Resistant; Semi-Stainless; and "Carbon," and the terms are applied as functions of the amount of chromium in the alloy. "Stainless" means that the alloy contains at least 13% chromium; "carbon" steels usually run under 4% chromium; semi-stainless goes from around 4% - 9%; while "stain resistant" usually means 10% - 13%. All of these definitions are very soft, there's a great deal of disparity depending on who's using the terms.

I *never* recommend carbon knives to someone who hasn't already displayed an interest; and would recommend stainless over anything else, especially carbon, to almost anyone for cooking school or anywhere else where time pressure is intense. It's not that carbon knives require so much extra care compared to stainless knives, it's that they require care RIGHT NOW.

High quality modern stainless alloys have edge properties as good as all but the very best modern carbons. There's nothing the carbon alloy Sabatier uses or used you won't get out of AEB-L, G3, 19C27, CPM 154, etc., except for "feel" on the stones.

I agree that modern Japanese and a few American knives are better for most people than modern German or Swiss knives because of their better edge taking and holding properties, more agile and more versatile profiles, and lighter weight.

As it happens, I have two Konosuke HDs (HD is Konosuke's name for their semi-stainless series): a 270mm gyuto and a 300mm suji; and have a 150mm HH (stainless) petty. They're wonderful knives. I also have four "go to" carbon Sabatier chef's -- two K-Sabatier au carbone, a "Canadian," and a Nogent -- as well as a bunch of other carbon Sabs (not to mention a few non-Sab carbons) and they're just as wonderful in their own ways and equally beloved.

Not to drift too far, but while we're on the subject of Sabatier carbon chef knives, I recently got a carbon (52100) Richmond Ultimatum which is just as good as a Sab in most respects and far better in some.

Sometimes wonderfulness is not the point. Sometimes practicality is more important.

BDL


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## elbin88

i have a f.dick 8 1/2" chefs knife and a wusthof 6" chefs knife.

but i am considering moving to j knives cos they jus seem a lot better in profile, edge retention and the actual quality of the materials used. So basically better value for money.


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## junglist

For work I use a Victorinox chef's, Mac utility, and a Shun paring knife... all of them I got for a great price and all very reliable. I hesitate to bring my better knives to work for fear of them 'growing legs', but they all far surpass kitchen provided ones.

At home I use a Wusstoff chef's for basic tasks. I have a Bark's River 9" as my workhorse which was actually made in the states and has been awesome. My baby would have to be my Nenox S-1 Gyuto, sharpest knife I have and the balance on it is like riding unicorns over rainbows and puffy clouds...


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## lennyd

Just so were not misleading etc eBay currently has many new chefs/gyuto options etc. 

Let the record show that my main point was that there are choices in the sub $100 price point, and that's pretty much what I wanted to make the requester aware of. 

Other than this I'm backing out of this discussion because I believe there will be nothing gained by anyone from continuing.

I have found your thoughts and suggestions very helpful in the past and am still thankful for your and the many other members help in the past.

I have found this site very informative, and in general helpful, and prefer to keep it that way and not get into any of the BS but still would like to be able to pay it forward by assisting others who are looking for help just like I was nearly 4 years ago and without having to avoid commenting on any thread that may include a specific brand product or having to choose my words any differently than in other threads. 

my last thought on the subject of knives for a student comes from my own experiences while learning etc which was done with the Chefs own Wustof's and the nameless (from my memory lol) knives everyone had access to etc. It worked out just fine and even though they all would seem dull to me today they were the tools of a fully functioning restaurant etc.

Would different knives have greatly improved my learning? Likely not, and we didn't have the choices we do today either. 

Choice is one of the things that has changed and that's a good thing!


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## kristopher

Below i have a wildfire cutlery birds beak i am learning tourne with and a ti**** elphant blank I nabbed off ebay to play with and learn with. I thought I was going to jst grind blank and handle it but it turns out it hasnt been annealed or heat treated.

fT


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## scott livesey

my daily users are a 6" vegetable cleaver and several 3" to 4" paring/utility knives.  The knives are "Old Sailor" brand and were made in my basement.  High carbon steel tempered to Rc 61-63 with very thin edges, total angle in the 15 to 25 degree range.


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## boar_d_laze

Scott,

How do you test your knives for hardness? 

BDL


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## michaelga

Probably the same way he sharpens his knives at a 7.5 to 12.5 degree angle.


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## rick alan

boar_d_laze said:


> Scott,
> 
> How do you test your knives for hardness?
> 
> BDL


On amazon you can get a set of 6 Hardness testing Files ranging from 40-65 Rc ($89), or a single Rc60 for about $18. If harder than the file it will slip, softer and of course it bites to varying degrees. You can guage them by testing oobjects of known hardness. you can likely find cheaper others on ebay.

Some portable hardness tester on ebay also, but don't have a good idea what the final bid price on them will be, likely more than a couple hundred with shipping.

Rick


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## locomoco

I am a line cook. I work at a farm to table restaurant and we do a lot of heavy prep with many types of items. I use a 9.5 inch Misono UX10 Gyuto.

I have 2 knives by Mercer - (1)  8" Chefs Knife (2)  8" Santoku (1)  Wustof Pairing Knife,  (1) Victorinox Boning Knife. I have knives ranging from $35.00 to $335.00.

The only things that matter to me when buying a knife is:

A) COMFORTABILITY - can you brunoise a case of carrots with this knife?

B) SHARPNESS - can you commit to learning how to sharpen your own knife and commit to sharpening at least every other day?

The two knives by mercer I got for around $35.00 a piece 6 years ago, when sharpened, can hold an egde better that a $90.00 Tojiro Japanese blade I have.


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## wubu

Rick Alan said:


> On amazon you can get a set of 6 Hardness testing Files ranging from 40-65 Rc ($89), or a single Rc60 for about $18. If harder than the file it will slip, softer and of course it bites to varying degrees. You can guage them by testing oobjects of known hardness. you can likely find cheaper others on ebay.
> 
> Some portable hardness tester on ebay also, but don't have a good idea what the final bid price on them will be, likely more than a couple hundred with shipping.
> 
> Rick


Those files would give you a ballpark of +/- 5 Rc, while Scott is claiming +/-1 Rc.


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## rick alan

Wubu said:


> Those files would give you a ballpark of +/- 5 Rc, while Scott is claiming +/-1 Rc.


Maybe better than that, I'd say +/- 2, but I'm no expert here, yet your point remains, +/-0.5 requires a real hardness tester. Some, such as myself, have access to those.

Rick


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## boar_d_laze

There are three kinds of hardness (more or less) relevant to knives. In alphabetical order they are: (a)_ Impact hardness_; (b )_Indentation hardness_; and (c ) _Scratch hardness_.

When you see an R in front of a hardness measurement, that means Rockwell Hardness, which is a measure of _indentation hardness_. In the case of knives Rockwell hardness is usually measured and reported as Rockwell "C" Hardness (HCR; RHc; cHR; or, my favorite for its other meaning, RCH), which is Rockwell hardness measured on... wait for it... the Rockwell C scale.

As far as I know (a fair bit, actually), you can't test _indentation hardness_ with a file, just _scratch hardness_. Scratch hardness is a decent _metaphor_ for Rockwell hardness, but *NOT* the same thing.

More, even the most accurate Rockwell tester -- which is really just a screw driven pin -- isn't accurate in the way which seems to be implied here. In order to pull out information with any confidence you need to test a statistically valid sample with several, well-calibrated testers.

Because of the inherent inaccuracies of the methodology and inherent variability of knife hardness from sample to sample, Rockwell hardness should always be given as a range and/or with an error bar. In my opinion, it should also -- even under the best of circumstances -- be taken with a grain of salt. Knife manufacturer's and retailer's Rockwell numbers are notoriously optimistic.

I'm not really a materials guy, but was an attorney with a reputation for busting self-styled experts. Without seeing some reliable and repeatable test results I think translating a file test to Rockwell C numbers with an error bar of +/- 2RCH is too hopeful.

Finally, I think that it's very easy to overestimate the importance of Rockwell numbers when advising someone about knife purchases, or considering your own. It's not like there's some hardness bar which defines the difference between good and bad knives. The most important things is a good alloy with an appropriate balance of toughness/strength and which has been appropriately hardened -- and that determination is more a matter of collecting information from a lot of sources rather than just looking at a number.

Just some thoughts,

BDL


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## rick alan

You forgot one thing BDL, when measuring hardness with an indenter you also need to be able to support the sample very solidly, which in the case of a long thin knife is tricky unless you cut a small piece out. ;-)

Rick


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## rick alan

boar_d_laze said:


> Scott,
> 
> How do you test your knives for hardness?
> 
> BDL





MichaelGA said:


> Probably the same way he sharpens his knives at a 7.5 to 12.5 degree angle.


You really have to excuse the autistic kid here, some of us do struggle with the subtleties of language, but I do get it at this point.

Rick


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## deputy

boar_d_laze said:


> ..my favorite for its other meaning, RCH...
> 
> Just some thoughts,
> 
> BDL


/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif


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## nidan2010

I use primarily the MAC Pro line.  I have three blades from the pro line and they are amazing.  They smack the pants off shuns any day and hold a more acute edge without the chipping issues.  .  I also have two takeda carbon steel blades which are in a class of their own.  They are hands down the sharpest blades I have ever worked with.  Many people do not like the carbons in a pro kitchen but they are not that much work to keep in line.


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## chefzz

I LIKE THE LOOK OF THOSE HANDMADES.  GREAT TO SEE THEM. (IN REFERENCE TO POST 69)


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## mike9

Currently on the bar I have:

150mm honesuki maru

150mm Tanaka petty

8" Ekco Forge conversion

7 sun Carter kiritstuke style sujihiki

240mm Takagi honyaki gyuto

10" Lamson conversion chef

270mm Hiromoto AS gyuto

14" Dexter scimitar conversion

Off the bar I have:

6" deba

6" usuba

300mm yanagiba

12" Ontario conversion chef

12" Dexter conversion chef

3 x 10" Forgecraft conversion chefs

3.5" Shun paring

Lamson Chinese chef

big honkin' Cleaver for bones.


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## scott livesey

boar_d_laze said:


> Scott,
> 
> How do you test your knives for hardness?
> 
> BDL


calibrated Rockwell 'C' hardness tester at the office


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## scott livesey

MichaelGA said:


> Probably the same way he sharpens his knives at a 7.5 to 12.5 degree angle.


the knife is almost flat to the stone. angle was measure on a Zeiss CMM machine at the office.


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## scott livesey

i agree, should have said Rc 61-63. i forge steel for a living, so the tools to measure hardness and angle are on hand. my idea when i made the cleaver was to end up with the hardest, thinnest edge possible, kinda like what the Japanese are famous for. I only use the cleaver on fruit, veg, and boneless proteins on an endgrain cutting board. I have using the same approach to the paring knives I make. I know 1084 is not a premium steel, but it will get very hard and hold an edge. pictures of my last batch





  








P1000575.JPG




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scott livesey


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Feb 6, 2013








i am new here, so please cut me a little slack. Scott


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## dropkick

I've used many brands of knives over the years, and many of them were very good knives (you can't go wrong with J.A. Henckels) but I always end up back with the inexpensive Forschner knives I bought when I was a poor student going to cooking school.

My kit has shrunk from what I started out carrying (I used to carry everything up to and including a meat clever)

In my roll I normally carry a 10 inch chefs knife, an 6 inch boning knife, a serrated bread knife, a peeler, a steel, and my favorite meat turner (spatula) - occasionally if I think it might be needed I'll carry a J.A. Henckels 10 inch carving knife. The chefs knife and the boning knife are both Forschner, the bread knife a no-name I picked up at Good Will years ago, the peeler is a J.A. Henckels, and my meat turner I bought from a Sysco dealer.

The chefs knife is heavy enough that if I need to cut up chickens splitting the breast bone doesn't take much effort, yet light enough that normal prep isn't tiring (I like a heavier knife), the boning knife is flexible rather than stiff as I like that better for cutting meat off bones. I used to carry a paring knife but I found myself using my boning knife in it's place most of the time so I quit carrying it. Both these knives and the bread knife have wood handles which requires a bit more care, and some kitchens don't like them (the thought is that the formed plastic is more sanitary*), however I've had these for many years and wouldn't be parted from them.
*I've worked kitchens where they didn't want any wood handles (or any wood period) in the kitchen, but when I assured them I kept my tools sanitary and NO ONE except myself uses my knives they let it pass.


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## wubu

Scott Livesey said:


> calibrated Rockwell 'C' hardness tester at the office


just wondering, what's your testing procedure to arrive at your values?


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## riba

Benuser said:


> Misono Swedish 240 gyuto, FKH 270 sujihiki, Hiromoto AS 190 former santoku, JCK Kagayaki VG-10 santoku, Robert Herder Lignum 3, K2, Yatagan, Nogent vintage, stainless Sabatier Diamant chef knives, Victorinox cimitar, slicer, Global G2, GS10, GS10.


Ah, a Robert Herder K2, great little knife isn't it!


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## pancake house

Came across this today after having 3 days off and freshened up the kit, so took a snap.





  








20130206_091347.jpg




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pancake house


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Feb 6, 2013







Haul it every day

Fujiwara san-nashiji santoku 180mm
Kitaoka left hand yanagiba 240mm
Masakage mizu gyuto 240
Unknown right hand yanagiba 210mm white steel -my "you wanna try a Japanese knife? " knife

Nainwa 4k and nagura stone

Anolon breadknife
Trusty old Wustof 8" grandprix 2 -the 4x4
Anolon pairing - best thing ever for frenching racks
Forschner 5" boning

Ceramic honing rod
A real rolling pin
Medium-fine arkansas with strop
Couple rasps
Best peeler ever


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## dawnspitfire

So far...I'm using Wolfgang Puck Collection.

http://dawnspitfire.wordpress.com/2012/03/30/sharp-knives/


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## scott livesey

have you asked this question of Shun or Henkel?????  ok

find flat area on blade.  we chose about one inch into the blade in the upper 1/3 where the blade transistions into tang.  made sure area was flat on both sides.  clamped blade(handle not attached at this point) to fixture, manually lowered tester until ball contacted steel, zero your display, press the go button, value displayed.  went about one inch toward the edge and repeat.  readings in both places were Rc62.0.  the steel was hardened using the standard recipe we have developed, heat to 1500F, soak at that temperature for 10 minutes, quench in room temperature Parks50 quench oil until warm to the touch.  wipe off oil, place in 350F oven for 2 hours, remove, air cool, sand blast to remove scale, test hardness, sharpen edge on belt grinder with 120, then 220, then 400grit belts.  sharpen on norton fine crystolon stone, then hone edge with 1000, then 2000, then 3000 grit silicon carbide paper.

my whole point in my posting is that I made knives for myself that I could not obtain with spending major$$$.

Mr Moderator: is it okay for me to discuss my knife making/sharpening business or is there a different area to do that.

scott

"the old sailor"


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## petemccracken

Check your PM


Scott Livesey said:


> ...Mr Moderator: is it okay for me to discuss my knife making/sharpening business or is there a different area to do that.


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## hpross

Ultimate Edge Chef Bag: 

Konosuke HD Gyuto 270mm

Takeda Hamono Deba 180mm

Victorionox Fibrox Salmon Knife 300mm

Wustof Classic Bread Knife 10inch

Wustof Classic Flexible Fillet Knife 7inch

LeJeune dessoser knife 130mm

Victorionox Bird-Beak Paring

Wustof Classic Paring

Wustof Classic Cleaver

This is what i carry to work everyday. plus spoons, thermo, microplane etc etc. 

I sharpen with:

6 water stones

1 Leather stop + paste


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## lennyd

Scott I'm certainly not "Mr Moderator" but I hope they are good with these kinds of posts or discussions because I find them very informative and thought provoking. 

I do know every forum has their own rules and ideas about professional or commercial interests or members but I have found the information shared by those "in the business" helpful and when there is contradictory information from others with similar experience or background etc it just adds more value and also interest. IMHO at least


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## petemccracken

Discussions of techniques is encouraged most definitely.

Where the problem arises is when the _discussion_ becomes a promotion for a specific product/service by someone who directly benefits when that product/service is purchased, i.e. selling in the guise of providing information.


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## scott livesey

this is the vegetable cleaver I made. it has a very fine edge and works well cutting veg, fruit, and boneless meat. the blade is 6" x 2 1/2" x 1/8" high carbon steel. the edge has a very slight curve, so i can rock the blade if i choose.





  








cleaver.JPG




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scott livesey


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Feb 8, 2013








the handle is oiled dogwood.

scott


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## tapan

I have some 25 knives which I use -- from daily to rarely. They are old old friends certainly all of them apart from one type ( see 4 below) are well over 10 years old stretching back over 30 years I should think.

I never collected sets of knives but i acquired most of them at a particular stage as my cooking experience expanded and I grew older and my tastes a whims in food preparation changed and developed as I grew older

All my knives needing a sharp edge are sharpened on a hand held steel. I have had the current stell for about 1`5 years now and probably 3 steel in my adult life ( oh yes and I once made the mistake of buying a "diamond steel" I used it for about 3 weeks before discarding it when I found it was ruining my knife edges)  

But I use 4 of those knives daily or very very frequently. All my knives live on 3 magnetic strips with my "favourites right to hand in my litchen prep area.

Of the 4 -- not in any order

1. 30 cm slim blade carving knife. Had it for longer than I can remember. it is original "Sheffield Steel" when it was actually made in Sheffield and has been put to countless uses over the years. It is thin and razor sharp ans is now only used for carving meats when cooked

2.  and 3. Two Japanese knives I bought on a visIt to Japan whilst living/working in Sultanate of Oman, Both 20 cms blades and extremely well edged and very easy to keep sharp. One is very very thin an is used only for slicing soft fruits and such. The other is my every day all purpose knife which is used for just about everything on the chopping board 

4. A paring knife -- well actually I have 3 of these im use at any time and get a new one at least every year. They are made in Brazil with the trade mark "TRAMONTINA". They are a cheap knife and the steel/iron content must be small since they only just manage to hang on to the magnetic rack! But they are simplicity itsell to keep sharp and a couple of "wipes". on the steel give an ideal very sharp edge for all the uses for which we use paring knives. So obviously the metal is fairly soft and after a couple of years  the cutting edges wear away completely. -- but so very useful and I have been using them for over 15 years now -- I have always bought them from the same vendor in Doncaster  open market.

I have fish knives, boning knives, a couple of cleavers ( one is a Chinese bamboo handled slim blade cleaver -- the other a long lived English butchers cleaver which is heavy and thick bladed but has an excellent edge -- mind you I have had it re edged a couple of times by a professional) . I also have a butchers meat/bone saw which is have used rarely!! About every couple of years  when I might buy half a pig or lamb -- I like to do my own jointing!

I always resharpen my knives immediately after use -- washed fand dried first then sharpened on the steel  -- rewashed and dried and replaced on the rack


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## sirbeefsteak

I am still in school we were provided with mercers other students have brought shuns and alot of wustofs which they have let me try out but in terms of the french knife the mercer is my favorite hefty enclosed rubber grip easy to sharpen nothing special but it gets the job done just fine.I guess im a little confused about what makes henckle and wustof any better and worth the extra money because ive never heard a chef attribute his great food to a knife.

Although .... was in gattlinburg if youve been there you know how many stores peddle cheap junk swords knives martial arts stuff was walking out of a shop of all junk was a standing glass case some simple brass and wood handled knives i asked by pointing to it the man said aaah ok pulls out the ugly ass dragon hilted knife next to it um nooo not that poc  when i picked these knives up it hugged my hand????  It was like a sitting in a lazy boy after lawn chairs he explained they were spanish steel with a lifetime warranty they bore the mark of a stags head  they were bowie knives but if i could track down who makes them id break legs to get my hands on a knife like that and perhaps the maker makes a french as well. Want the bowie and a french by that maker sighs i had no money at the time.


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## lennyd

Sirbeefsteak. 

I know there are others who have more experience with this but I think the answer to why "henckels and wustof are any better or more expensive" is different depending on who you ask.

The only obvious is cost of manufacturing and what the market will allow (most knives sell at different prices around the world just like other products) but I think on a more personal level etc that many believe in German quality and general engineering etc and put a value on those products. 

Additionally these are fully developed BRAND names, and consumers are programmed to this like moths to a light bulb at night. Just look at the full parking lot of any theme restaurant (take your pick of which name etc) and then the lots of the small local places. Obviously those people are not making their decision based on the quality of the product/food etc.

Oh and IMHO many just play "follow the leader" and if a tv personality uses it then it must be the best lmao.

On the other hand the most accomplished chef I know has not actually cut or even cooked anything in years. Our last talk left me wondering if he really enjoys being the boss (executive chef) or misses what actually got him into this in the first place.

I have to think like so many other things in life it is all about perspective.


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## dcarch

A few more home-made kitchen knives.

Too cheap to buy, so I made my own. A few dollar's worth of 1095 carbon steel.

dcarch





  








knives_zps10247ae8.jpg




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dcarch


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Feb 12, 2013












  








knifeboard_zpsdfaa8e88.jpg




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dcarch


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Feb 12, 2013


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## tarkus

hi everybody im a new b so i wanna ask a few questions about sharpening with chosera stones &buying some knives i hear that those water stones are amazing so i was thinking of purchasing 400 3000 &a 5000 k for a beginner what do you think &also as for knives i wanna start purchasing some sanelli knives & i would like som feedback from some chef's on what they think about these knives ? ........... thanks /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif


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## boar_d_laze

Hi Tarkus.

400 / 3000 / 5000 is not a well chosen set for a water stone kit for most knives.  Because grit numbers aren't always meaningful and can be very hard to translate from one type of stone to another, from one manufacturer to another, and even from one manufacturer's line to different line by the same maker, good sharpening kits are built around functions rather than specific grits.  You want a coarse stone for profile and repair, a medium/coarse stone for initital sharpening (i.e., drawing the first burr if you sharpen according to the "burr method); and one or two finer stones for refining and perhaps polishing the edge. 

Referring to Chosera, just by way of example, a three stone set of 400, 1000, and either 3000 or 5000 would work for most knives for most purposes.   So for that matter would a two stone Chosera set of 700 and 3000.  Even talking about something as limited as the best Chosera set for a beginner, the answer for any given person is going to be contingent on a lot of factors unique to that person. 

Chosera stones are Naniwa's magnesia based stones and are extremely good in just about every way, but are also very expensive.  Not as criticism of Chosera, but just by way of information, you can do just as well (at the expense of some inconvenience) for far less money. 

It would probably be better for you and for anyone who wanted to help you if you started your own thread.  This one is really about a different subject and it's going to be confusing keeping things separated if we try to help you while admiring others' knife choices. 

Hope this helps,

BDL


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## tarkus

hey thanks for the reply

so your saying save a few bucks &just buy 700, 3000, i read up on the 3000 & it is a good stone for henkel victorinox &a few others as for the price goes well what can you do ? if you want something good ya gotta pay. the reason i want chosera is cause im a sharpener which is what i do in the summer &i want to give my customers the sharpest knife i could give em &being that i'll be sharpening qiute a few kinves per day i want something reliable. tell me what you would suggest. i have been sharpening my knives on a stone but i don't like the outcome they don't feel sharp to me &im not 100%satisfied , so please give some advice.............. thanks /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif


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## scott livesey

dcarch said:


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## beardedcrow

Misono Swedish sujihiki 270 (daily knife)
Yoshihiro Yanagi 300 (sashimi sushi)
Kanetsune yanagi 240 (back up)
Shun Yanagi 270 (loaner)
Caddie slicer (home knife)
Wurstoff chef 8" (home knife)

Looking to get konosuke white or blue suji


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## paul alfred

I use a cheap ($40) Calphalon 8" Chef's knife, a cheap 8" Dexter bread knife, and a cheap Mundial 3-1/2" paring knife.  They're not fancy, they're not much to look at (or brag about), but they get the job done.  Since my knife skills have been improving I am planning on upgrading to some better knives, but for the moment though, these are the tools that I use every day.


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## harlock0083

LX or Contemporary (I think they're both the same steel)? I have an calphalon LX paring knife, zwilling and henckels twin sig 8" chef knife, and a Fujiwara FKH 240mm. Sold my previous Henckel's international knife set on ebay, which netted enough to buy the paring knife.........


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## matthew79

*I use about 3 knves of all the 30+ knives i have, i use a 10'' cooks knife (HYGIPLAS) not a massively popular name, but very sharp! and great for most of my day to day prep!, i also use a great victorinox wodden handle filleting knife for obviously filleting/prepping fish, but also great, for butterflying steaks, chicken, etc... *

*i have some small veg prep knives, again, are good for peeling onions, vep prep etc.*


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## davezatyowa

I've gone on a knife acquisition binge in the past year and have added an unreasonable number of new knives. But here are the ones I use most often:

1) 240mm Konosuke HH Stainless Wa Gyuto - a 'laser', glides through food. I love this knife. Lightweight, nimble, precise, sharp. I liked it so much that I've recently picked up a 2nd Konosuke, the 240mm HD Wa Funayuki Gyuto, which has a slightly different (more pointed) profile and uses semi-stainless HD steel. They're both wonderful and I have not yet decided if I prefer one over the other. I use a chefs/gyuto for 90% of everything. I've thought about getting a longer 270mm gyuto, but figure it might be overkill for the kind of cooking and prep work I generally do at home. I already have a couple of longer 10" euro-style chef knives for when I feel the need for more length or heft. Still, I can hear the beginnings of a siren song luring me onward toward the rocks of a 270mm Gyuto...

2) 3.5" Wusthof Classic paring knife - this is a great little knife, small sharp and pointy for more delicate cuts

When I feel a need for some variety, I also like the following:

- 10" Dexter-Russell forged Connoisseur narrow-bladed chef knife. I like this because of the narrower French-style blade profile. Lately I've been using this in place of a 10" Wusthof Classic (which I also like a lot) when I have heavy-duty cutting to do. The forged Dexter Connoisseur knives don't have the cachet of the Wusthof or Henckels, but it's a beautifully made knife using similar steel and with comparable fit and finish. Not too pricey. Underrated, I think.

- 210mm Richmond Artifex Gyuto - western handled gyuto, shorter and slightly heavier blade than the Konosuke, but still nimble and fun to use, and holds an edge well. Made in USA.

- 5.5" Zwilling Henckels boning knife - for fabricating chicken, fish, etc.

- 7" Calphalon Katana slicing knife - because its handle arcs slightly upward, this can be used like a smaller narrower chef's knife. Feels good in the hand.

- Kiwi model 840 7" asian cleaver - picked this up at an Asian market for about $10. Can substitute for a chef knife, very sharp. A bargain.

I have a useful mish-mash of other carving, slicing, paring, petty/utility, bread, chefs/gyutos: Japanese, Henckels, and Wusthofs. I like *all *_the knives I've kept_, but the specific knives listed above get used most regularly.

One pleasant discovery has been the cheap Kiwi brand knives I've picked up at a local Asian market. Average price $5 - $10. They're very sharp, and because they're made from thin steel blade-stock they cut quite effectively. Fit and finish (and probably durability) are below average, but they're fun to play with, lightweight, and would make excellent knives for camping-backpacking-travel-training-backup-loaning. They sharpen easily, but I have not yet determined how long they hold an edge; enough for a couple of smallish prep sessions at least. In cutting tests they have compared quite well with the best of the bunch above... they glide smoothly through thick carrots, for instance, with no wedging. But I like _using_ the nicer knives...


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## chef cham

I'm partial to my Global knives for most of my work, especially the flexible boning knife. It's amazing. I use a Kom Kom for anything to do with paring or detailed work. Then I use a cheap pair of Japanese kitchen knives for every day use at home.


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## rick alan

DaveZatYoWa said:


> One pleasant discovery has been the cheap Kiwi brand knives I've picked up at a local Asian market. Average price $5 - $10. They're very sharp, and because they're made from thin steel blade-stock they cut quite effectively.


For 25 years I used practically nothing but a very similar knife in the form of an Imperial (made down the street from me in Rohde Island) Very Very Sharp 8" slicer. Just 1.1mm thick, its perceived sharpness is very good, and with gentle steeling and delicate use maintains an edge for an adequate while. I still enjoy using it.

Rick


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## tarkus

they look like profesional knives how did you put the honing on them or who?


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## rick alan

tarkus said:


> they look like profesional knives how did you put the honing on them or who?


 Who are you addressing?


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## betowess

dcarch said:


> A few more home-made kitchen knives.
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Maybe only a few dollars worth of 1095 steel, but I imagine many hours of fun crafting those and showing to friends and family to boot. My hats off to you and Scott and the others who have the shop and skills to make your own. Way cool!


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## betowess

I don't have many knives, yet. Just my set of carbon K-Sabatiers, 4" paring,  and the 6,8, and 10 inch chefs.

A cheap 7" Farberware santoku -it holds a great edge is one of my favorites.

 4" Knives of Alaska "Alpha Wolf" D2 skinning knife. 

J Marttini Finnish "Rapala" small fillet knife.

Alaska Cutlery "Ulu knife" with matching mincing bowl - it works really well.

The latest  acquisition a way cheap new 8" "Old Hickory" carbon slicer to practice with on my new Edge Pro sharpening setup.

A Fujiwara FKM 7' Santoku is on its way... my son wants my current santoku, and I felt the "need" to buy something Japanese after reading all these posts here, LOL

An F. Dicks polished round sharpening steel.

By the way, I recently built some DIY base plates to hold strop leather, balsa,  and pine boards to hold stropping media.

I made these two stopping base plates with an .88 cent piece of sheet metal from Lowes, which I snipped into two 3" x 11" plates. After filing the edges, I then super glued these sheet metal plates to some pine boards that were just a hair larger. Then I put little vinyl bumpers from Ace Hardware on the bottom of the wood boards to keep them from skidding. To these sheet metal base pads I can magnetically attach various strop media (balsa, pine, leather) because I have glued magnetic pads to their bottoms - using gorilla glue.  They work great. I'm using some boron carbide and chromium oxide semi-pastes.


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## gumguy

My favorites are all old carbon steel knives 8,and 10 inch Chef style and 8 inch boning.  I usually get then at auctions or junk stores in odd lots or boxes and buckets of old kitchen stuff.  You can end up with a lot of trash to throw away but also can find some gems. ( for example an antique very heavy English butchers cleaver and a very old 14 inch chef knife for example)  I have accumulated them over many years and most are so old and worn that the manufacturers stamp on the blade is worn off.  Many old Carbon Steel knives have suffered from years of improper sharpening but a few minutes on a grinder working on the heel of the blade or the bolster of a forged knife can restore a fine piece of steel. 

I like the ease of keeping them sharp and I don't mind the darkened blades.  Japanese knives are good and I have some nice German and Chicago Cutlery pieces but I keep going back to the old Carbon Steel blades.


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## knifesavers

gumguy said:


> I usually get then at auctions or junk stores in odd lots or boxes and buckets of old kitchen stuff. You can end up with a lot of trash to throw away but also can find some gems. ( for example an antique very heavy English butchers cleaver and a very old 14 inch chef knife for example) I have accumulated them over many years and most are so old and worn that the manufacturers stamp on the blade is worn off. Many old Carbon Steel knives have suffered from years of improper sharpening but a few minutes on a grinder working on the heel of the blade or the bolster of a forged knife can restore a fine piece of steel.


Shh!!! Don't go telling everybody about the gems. 

I get a giggle out of all the various infomercial super duper last knife you will ever need, types in there that are all F'd up.

Jim


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## mjwein

I have a couple of victonox chef knives: an 8" and a 9" and various Henkle knives including paring knives and basic utility knives but by far my "go to" knife is a Chicago Cutlery 8" chef knife. It's not pretty or flashy and I probably only paid about $30 for it 25 years ago but it fits my hand perfectly and that's really what your main knife is about. You can spend hundreds of dollars on a knife that hurts your hand after 10 minutes of chopping and though people will oooh and ahhh at how cool your knife looks, at the end of the day it's worthless if you can't use it. Never buy a knife on line without doing your homework and "shaking hands" with it because your knife(s) is your most important tool.


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## stitches

Just got my first "real" knife. Richmond Artifex 240mm gyuto.


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## brooklynburns

Heres what I'm working with, all get used professionally minus the Moritaka Santoku (more suited for home cooking) and the Shun Kramer





  








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brooklynburns


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Feb 28, 2013


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## rbatsch

With big hands, the handle, balance and hand position for control are as important to me as the blade.  The Shun Ken Onion knives meet these criteria for me, but only for the larger knives.  For smaller knives like a paring knife, I prefer a handle that allows for more hand positions.  My current knives are:

Shun Ken Onion 10" Chef's

Shun Ken Onion 8" Santoku

Wusthof Classic Ikon 9cm paring knife


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## chef cham

BrooklynBurns said:


> Heres what I'm working with, all get used professionally minus the Moritaka Santoku (more suited for home cooking) and the Shun Kramer
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I really like the nakiri... looks pretty hard core. This structure type is what I use for my home kitchen (not the nakiri although I should have one). They're light and very, very sharp. If my family members damage them in any way, I won't have a cow. I keep a rolling toolbox chest in my kitchen to house all of the "untouchable" knives and my work knives in a separate toolbox. Maybe I have a thing about knives.


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## porkchopboy

I usually use a 10" Forschner at work and yes they are hell to sharpen and a 6" Wusthof utility knife.  At home my trusty 20 year old Henckel 9" wooden handled slicer takes care of most tasks and on special occasions I whip out the Shun's.


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## grumpy

I still use Sabatier Bridgedale I've had since 1985 but I have added Wustof Trident slicer, "bone crusher" and Global fish bone removers. I even have a 10" Victorinox cooks knife. I am retired now but still keep my knives keen for every day home use. I am fascinated by the array of quality knives available today. When I started in 1968. It was carbon steel or nothing but they did hold their edge better than the later stainless steel range. I still favour a heavier knife with decent balance


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## boar_d_laze

What's a Sabatier Bridgedale?  Is it a Sabatier "rebranded" to include the retailer's name? 

BDL


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## burntsugar

Knifes are the source of debate but whatever "You" like and work well with is best, Some particular knifes by certain manfer's are best while the entire line may not be. There is no this is better than that. Its just "Your" opinion. So what you like, I may not and vice versa. So try as many as you can if someone will allow.


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## perfectbrunoise

I only know a couple people that are true brand snobs.  I use a Hattori Gyotu along with a Glestain sujihiki slicer as my main set of tools.  I also have learned not to spend more than a few dollars on my small knives- paring, tournet etc.- And I have a good old fashioned, heavy, German steel Chefs knife for flying through bags of onions or splitting bones or whatever.  I think the most important thing is to not rule out a style or place of origin for egos sake, get the right tool for the right job.


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## phaedrus

Place of origin will continue to guide my buying choices until I find a German one that can hold an acceptable edge for two weeks of commercial use./img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif I'm not holding my breath.


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## perfectbrunoise

There are some good broad and heavy Japanese knives out there. Look for western style debas on Korin or Japanesechefsknife.com but you'll spend a few bucks. And the Mac ultimate is pretty heavy for a Japanese gyotu.


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## lennyd

there was a time I might have debated this, but it was long ago.

to quote another member "sharp trumps everything" and nothing I have owned from Germany or the west in general gets as sharp or stays that way as long as my current J knives.


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## ziggyb

Hello all,

Just found this forum, great site! Will fill in profile in time.

Have more knives than my wife knows, but wanted a new utility knife .... years of use to my regular worker required an upgrade.

But have to say I recently fell in love with the Victorinox Forged 6-Inch Wide Utility Knife.
I saw it by accident and the shape struck a chord.
Will explore more of them in time.

I never handled a Victorinox before, but am completely surprised now and happy pappy.
My goto knife.

Edge left a bit to be desired out of the box but fixed to my taste and now love it completely.


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## wendy riddel

I hate to say this but my favouurite go-to knife is a cheap little short bladed OXO knife. I picked this baby up in my local "kitchen-ware" shop and I have to say I love it.

I have hand issues and cannot grip a knife that has a thin grip. I have several expensive Wurstoff and Victorinox knives but while once upon a time I could (and did) wheld them all day I can only use them for about 15 minutes before my hands start playing up.

My OXO cost $NZ15 and my latest Wurstoff cost $NZ399.

Knives here cost the earth, the good ones are worth it though.

My OXO gives me the control I have to have, I am always sharpening it but until I can acquire a good knive with the thicker grip I need, I guess I am slumming it.


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## lennyd

I'm sure you have or will see it said here often that the most important thing and especially for those with limitations from injury etc is having and maintaining a sharp edge. 

It reduces the amount of muscle or energy needed so much many believe or really know it can reduce fatigue more than anything that can be done to a handle. 

I guess the trick is too keep the edge on your preferred knife as sharp as possible, and if it is made of a good or better steel all the better because you will have to work on it less. 

I know this first hand since all my small knives are left over misfits from various old sets and none are considered good anything lol. but they do the job and are even efficient when sharp 

glad to hear you found one that helps you get past the pain etc!


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## knifesavers

Wendy Riddel said:


> I hate to say this but my favouurite go-to knife is a cheap little short bladed OXO knife. I picked this baby up in my local "kitchen-ware" shop and I have to say I love it.
> 
> I have hand issues and cannot grip a knife that has a thin grip.


Dexter makes a knife line called the DuoGlide that is intended for people with compromised grips. I have one and can effectively cut with various odd grips that I could not with a regular chef. The caveat is that it is an odd feel and takes adjustment. I am much faster with a regular chef. Bought one on close out because my niece had carpal tunnel issues and kept it in case I need it at some point.

http://www.dexterduoglide.com/

Lots of positive reviews from folks with hand issues.


Ergo Chef also claims there shape helps with avoiding CTS.

http://ergochef.com/

Another option is, if you have a riveted handled knife, find a woodworker and ask if they can rehandle it with some size or shape handle that better suits you. Probably will run you $40 or so.

Jim


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## damon otan

20 cm santoku global knife- for nearly everything my favourite it holds blade and is light also feels good in hand!


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## mama mia

The cutlery that is my top choice and used every day is Cutco made in USA.  Our son introduced us to Cutco when he was in highschool and selling Cutco, yes the cutlery is expensive, but, will last a life time.  No other cutlery brand can match Cutco. 

Have a wonderful day!!!

Mama mia


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## timo roivainen

Global g2. Tamahagane 24cm chefknife. Also 2 other globals..


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## richpambid5670

i got the 10' forshner,wushtof paring knife, 12 inch korin knife for my sushi and sashimi,henkels boning knife and a serrated knife


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## kedarshenoy

Top to Bottom

Tojiro DP 270mm Gyuto
Shun Classic 10inch Chefs
Yoshihiro Hammered Damascus 240mm Gyuto
Tojiro DP 215mm Bread Knife/Slicer
Zwilling Henckels 7inch Santoku
Tojiro DP 180mm Garasuki
Kaplan Aronson 7inch Flexible Filet Knife
Victorinox 6 1/2inch Stiff Boning Knife
Tojiro DP 90mm Petty Knife
Idahone 12inch Ceramic Hone Rod
Rosle 9inch Locking Tongs
WS 6inch Fish Spatula
Suehiro Rika 1200 Grit
Suehiro Rika 6000 Grit
Leather Belt and Newspaper Strops





  








image.jpg




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kedarshenoy


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Mar 29, 2013


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## mike9

I have a fair amount of J-knives, but I have a thing for good old Yankee iron. I put this into service after a refurb and a new handle and it's my go to chef knife - an old Goodell 10" from New Hampshire USA.





  








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Mar 29, 2013












  








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Mar 29, 2013


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## betowess

Mike9, that is a really good looking re-handle. Nice!


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## crabapple

I use a 10 inch Chef knife that was bench made for me by PEAK Knives.

The owner is a friend & this knife was a gift, with a Rose wood handle.

If I can I will try to up load a photo.


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## mike9

Pics please


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## jake t buds

What kind of knife do I have?

A sharp one. 

Rimshot.

I'll be here all week.


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## seadog

I'm still a culinary studen (one more semester)t and work 20 hours as Garde Manger. When at work I use the chef's knife I got in my school kit. It's a Mercer 10". I really like the feel of it—the handle is very grippy and never slips, and the blade seems to maintain an edge for a good stretch of time. I'll upgrade later on, but for now this one works well.


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## robertoo

20140811_144314.jpg




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robertoo


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Aug 29, 2014







ji

I am a fan of Watanabe

from left to right

petty 120mm white

nakiri 165mm blue stainless clad

santoku 165mm blue stainless clad

honesuki 150mm blue iron clad

deba 165mm blue iron clad

itinomonn slicer 210mm white iron clad

also a 240mm tojiro dp vg10 a very good price/quallity

an 80mm parer tojiro dp


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## Iceman

Here are pics of my 2 main knives: 





  








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Iceman


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Jan 14, 2011












  








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Iceman


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Jan 14, 2011







​I think you can find them both on _"Clearance"_ for $10 each. LOL @ ME. The Chef Knife is 1974-vintage. The santuko was a gift from my niece's kids. My third main knife is a $3 petty from IKEA.


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## ordo

_And they lived miserable, because it was cheaper._


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## jonnyboy369

In my roll now is a big Winco all steel cleaver, a Victorinox Fibrox 10" chef knife, and an old school Chicago Cutlery 10" breaking knife. I keep a steel in there too and my 6000 grit Shun stone. I have no problem keeping the Victorinox razor sharp. The cleaver was 9 bucks and I abuse it. I dont need paring or boning knives at my current job so I quit carrying them. The breaking knife is for fish l. I was using an 8" C.C. slicing knife before for that but it wasnt long enough for the bigger salmon. My kit is inexpensive but quite effective.


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## herkuleschef

Hello guys!

Interesting discussion...

My best knife in the kitchen is real masterpiece: The Shun Fuji Chef's Knife...I paid a few hundred dollars for it! For daily use I trust in German Wusthof Knives...solid cutting, surpising sharpness. But my latest discovery are Nesmuk knives...but they are frightfully expensive. Maybe I have to wait until christmas to make myself such a lavish present... ;-)!


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## Iceman

OK. I'm working on understanding a concept here. Maybe someone can help me. I do understand things like spending your own hard-earned money on whatever it is that you like. Easy enough. I also have a good grasp on the idea of everyone being entitled to their own opinion. Yeah ... I know and exercise that one well enough. I'm very curious though, if there is some way, I mean there must be because so many people speak like it's religiously carved in stone, to make food taste so much better when prepared or cut up with with really expensive knives. How does that happen?!? How do "home cooks" get so much more flavor out of their dishes with their expensive knives than I, a pro chef, get with my miserable cheap knives?!?

*TIA *for the assistance here.


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## rick alan

Icey, though it doesn't cover the complete breadth of the subject as you are suggesting - and quite aside from whatever nameless home cooks may or may not think, or whatever joy they may get from using a special knife - are you arguing that there are not certain food prep tasks that can only be done properly, and in every respect that matters, with a knife that takes an especially sharp edge?  Because I know there are quite a number of  pro chefs who would give you a big argument there.

Rick


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## mano

Ice Man, I know you're a judgmental miserable cuss who takes pride in being oppositional, but you appear to be an accomplished chef who knows the most important part of a knife is a sharp edge.  

It just so happens that some knives, mostly made in Japan or patterned after J knives, take and hold a really sharp edge. They tend to be made of steels that can be heat treated to those standards. Throw in certain profiles for better board contact and tip work, geometries that decrease wedging and stiction, and balance points and handles that may make a knife feel like an extension of your hand. Those attributes drive up the cost and some people are willing to pay a premium.

There are legitimate claims that fruits and vegetables cut with really sharp knives stay fresh longer (something about the cell structure). But your statement  "... so many people speak like it's religiously carved in stone, to make food taste so much better when prepared or cut up with with really expensive knives" is just stirring the pot.

Oh, and the second most important part of a knife is the skill of the person holding it.


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## cheflayne

*I know exactly what IceMan is saying. *

The skill is in the operator, not the tool.

I work professionally and basically use one knife (10 3/4" chef knife) for probably 99% of the tasks in front of me.

Every time I start a new job, people see me working and they say things like "don't you want a filet (or insert, boning, bread, paring, etc) for that job". After they *really* watch me work, they stop asking.

I am not saying that I am all that special; but then neither is the knife.

It is just that I just don't need a $300 screwdriver to remove a screw from a piece of wood.


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## Iceman

Mano, since we're being so direct and sharp here (no pun intended) I'll be happy enough to explain what I actually said, since it appears that you have reading and comprehension skill difficulties. I know all about "sharp knives". _My point had noting to do with "sharp knives"._ My point is that all things being equal, "sharpness" and such, the cost of a knife has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of food put on a plate. The guy using a $1000 knife, made by any brand you like, doesn't put out tastier dishes than a guy (ME) using a < 20$ cheap knife.

I took offense at the wisecrack made after my post #206, on page 7. On some days I'm more twitchy than others. I've worked for a long time in the food service industry. I'm kinda old and cold. If you believe me to be a "judgmental miserable cuss", well, OK. I can live with that. I've been called worse.

_Reading is fundamental ... Listening is a skill._

"Chef" is only a vocabulary word.


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## knifesavers

IceMan,

Some place else was mentioned the gear head/hot rod mentality.

Give any good guitar player a tuned guitar he can play you a song. Ask him after how he liked the guitar and there will likely be a lot of nits picked over setup, strings, tone, ergonomics, amp, etc.

Give any good cook a sharp knife they can make a meal. Ask them about the knife and again a lot of nits will get picked.

Gear heads are not just into guitars or cars.

If knives could have as many aftermarket things changed as guitars, there would be a percentage of people who would tweak them constantly.

Jim


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## rick alan

IceMan said:


> Mano, since we're being so direct and sharp here (no pun intended) I'll be happy enough to explain what I actually said, since it appears that you have reading and comprehension skill difficulties. I know all about "sharp knives". _My point had noting to do with "sharp knives"._ My point is that all things being equal, "sharpness" and such, the cost of a knife has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of food put on a plate. The guy using a $1000 knife, made by any brand you like, doesn't put out tastier dishes than a guy (ME) using a < 20$ cheap knife.
> 
> I took offense at the wisecrack made after my post #206, on page 7. On some days I'm more twitchy than others. I've worked for a long time in the food service industry. I'm kinda old and cold. If you believe me to be a "judgmental miserable cuss", well, OK. I can live with that. I've been called worse.
> 
> _Reading is fundamental ... Listening is a skill._
> 
> "Chef" is only a vocabulary word.


OK, that answers it. As you might guess some of us aren't mind readers. Or readers of every comment such as to be able to make tenuous connections. As to the Miserable cuss allegation, all I can say is that I've only ever seen you scare away one commenter, of itself insufficient to make a really declarative determination.

Rick

Rick


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## Iceman

Rick ... Nobody needs to read any minds. You just need to read and comprehend the posts. Nowhere did I say anything about "sharpness". It was all based on the point that I have/use very inexpensive knives. _(They just happen to be very sharp, but I said nothing of that.)_ I took offense at the comment _(wisecrack)_ following my post:


> _And they lived miserable, because it was cheaper._


 I returned the cracking wise with my _(rhetorical)_ question/statement about how does any dish taste any better when prepared/cut up with expensive knives.

Where exactly, was I expecting any "mindreading"?!? _PLEASE_ explain that to me.

*TIA* for your time and consideration in this matter.


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## ordo

Please Iceman, don't take offense at my words. It's in fact an old saying that I apply to my own life.  The first time I read it, it was like a revelation. "Don't be cheap if you have the money, the resources, the time, etc." I say that to myself every time I have to take a decision or buy something. 

Can you cook with a $40 knife? Of course you can, no doubt about it. But look: my grandma would be surprised (and even offended, given her poor origins) to hear somebody spent such money when she could cook with a $2 knife. And she was an outstanding cook, oh yes.

Isn't there a pleasure in using the best tool you can afford, a tool you feel comfortable with, that unite noble materials, beauty and functionality? And in a subtle way, doesn't that pleasure transmits to the final result?


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## brianshaw

ordo said:


> Please Iceman, don't take offense at my words. It's in fact an old saying that I apply to my own life. The first time I read it, it was like a revelation. "Don't be cheap if you have the money, the resources, the time, etc." I say that to myself every time I have to take a decision or buy something.
> 
> Can you cook with a $40 knife? Of course you can, no doubt about it. But look: my grandma would be surprised (and even offended, given her poor origins) to hear somebody spent such money when she could cook with a $2 knife. And she was an outstanding cook, oh yes.
> 
> Isn't there a pleasure in using the best tool you can afford, a tool you feel comfortable with, that unite noble materials, beauty and functionality? And in a subtle way, doesn't that pleasure transmits to the final result?


This is a wonderful obsevation and question. I would answer mostly affirmative but the hestation is that we all have criteria for (1) what brings us pleasure (2) what we feel comfortable with (3) what unites "noble materials, beauty and functionality" (4) what brings pleasure. So answer is quite individual.

Most of my knives far exceed the "junk knife" category and meet my criteria for all 4 issues listed above. But somebody could beg to differ and claim that my J-knives are too expensive, chippy, not the best steel, amateur quality, not authentic enough... Of course, some of these arguements may be true in their experience (or in their mind - it seems li a lot of htese opinion are "what I read o the intenet").

No matter, I can respect their experience/opinions. But, FOR ME, what I have, indeed, provides the pleasure that transmits to the final result. Could I do the same with less quality knives... probably so but I don't have to and don't want to.

p.s. My gram as well as my Ma were also wonderful cooks and they always used dull knives of dubious quality.


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## cheflayne

Last February I went to San Juan del Sur for vacation. Thoroughly enjoyed my time there. Couldn't tell you if I flew there on an Airbus A380, a Boeing 777, or whatever. My focus was on SJDS...but that is just me.


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## mano

The miserable cuss part was supposed to be me joshing Ice Man. He's been accused of all sorts of curmudgeonly comments and usually rolls with it.


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## Iceman

OK. I think I'm gonna puke.


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## cheflayne

Make sure you use the air sickness bag.


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## tbos42

10" Tad INOX, and 7" Kramer Damascus Santoku....





  








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## texasgrillchef

I am a professional chef. After years of spending many big bucks on knives, this is what my conclusion is.

Except for specialty knives. Go to SAMs and get the generic standard chef, paring, filet knives they have. Entire set will cost you $30. (7 Blades, see photos) These have great stainless steel blades, great dishwasher safe plastic handles and will last a long time. When they have lost their sharpness and need a more proffesional sharpening then a sharpening steel can provide. Toss them and go get you NEW ones. Buying new costs you less then having them professionally sharpened. All the blades are NSF certified.

As a proffesional chef, 2 complete sets last me a year. Overall a lot less expensive then spending a grand for a set.

I have yet to see any blade of a $200 knife that's actually better then the blades I get at SAMs. Sure the $200 blade May last 3 or 4 years maybe even 5 before you have to spend $50 to have it proffesionaly sharpened. But for $200 I can buy 40 chef knives at SAMs. At two a year, that will last me 20 years.

I work with a chef that paid over a grand for a set of ten knives, he has to have his proffesional sharpened once a year at a cost $250. Yet compare mine new, to his new after sharpening and you can't tell the difference.

TGC

I also wash mine after every use, do not allow them to air dry. And use a sharpening steel on them once a day.






  








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## tweakz

For environmental and economic reasons: I'd rather sharpen my knives than buy new or pay for sharpening service. I think most Chefs here that buy their own decent knives also sharpen them. Knives are likes shoes.


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## arri

Masahiro Usabo 165mm
Masahiro Sujihiki 270mm
Masahiro Gyuto 180mm
Madahiro Gyuto 240mm
Masahiro Utility 150mm

All of them Carbon Virgin steel


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## denverveggienut

Texasgrillchef said:


> I am a professional chef. After years of spending many big bucks on knives, this is what my conclusion is.
> 
> Except for specialty knives. Go to SAMs and get the generic standard chef, paring, filet knives they have. Entire set will cost you $30. (7 Blades, see photos) These have great stainless steel blades, great dishwasher safe plastic handles and will last a long time. When they have lost their sharpness and need a more proffesional sharpening then a sharpening steel can provide. Toss them and go get you NEW ones. Buying new costs you less then having them professionally sharpened. All the blades are NSF certified.
> 
> As a proffesional chef, 2 complete sets last me a year. Overall a lot less expensive then spending a grand for a set.
> 
> I have yet to see any blade of a $200 knife that's actually better then the blades I get at SAMs. Sure the $200 blade May last 3 or 4 years maybe even 5 before you have to spend $50 to have it proffesionaly sharpened. But for $200 I can buy 40 chef knives at SAMs. At two a year, that will last me 20 years.
> 
> I work with a chef that paid over a grand for a set of ten knives, he has to have his proffesional sharpened once a year at a cost $250. Yet compare mine new, to his new after sharpening and you can't tell the difference.
> 
> TGC
> 
> I also wash mine after every use, do not allow them to air dry. And use a sharpening steel on them once a day.
> 
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Wouldn't it be easier just to learn how to sharpen knives? Sharper knives whenever you want (and sharper than they come when new), and you don't have to throw away 140 knives over a ten-year period.


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## texasgrillchef

Sure one could! One could change their own oil in their cars too, as well as refill the ink/toner in our printer cartridges and do a lot of things too. But we don't. Do you???

I guess I neglected to say that I do have the knives recycled, along with the batteries, printer cartridges, old pots n pans,and all old unused electronics that my family no longer uses.

Tell me what have you done with all your old pots pans and cell phones? Have you recycled them?


TGC


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## texasgrillchef

tweakz said:


> For environmental and economic reasons: I'd rather sharpen my knives than buy new or pay for sharpening service. I think most Chefs here that buy their own decent knives also sharpen them. Knives are likes shoes.


I do have then recycled, along with pots and pans and many many other items that are of no longer any use or value.

But just like refilling toner/ink cartridges yourself, or changing the oil on our cars ourselves. I don't have the time, or the patience to do so. I just buy new printer cartridges and recycle the old, and have someone change the oil in my truck.

A knife for me isn't like shoes for me. I also don't beleive we chefs can sharpen a knife ourselves to the same quality that can be professionally done with laser computer aided percision.

A sharpening Steele will prolong the knife but does not technically sharpen the knife. Eventually it needs to be sharpened correctly and ideally on a computer laser guided precession sharpening system. I have yet to see any food establishment shell out the 10grand for one of these.


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## galley swiller

A computer laser guided precession sharpening system?

Gee!  Who makes those?  I can see it now - three rooms with 15 electronic technicians and one supervising electrical engineer (with a State Certification in Electronic Engineering, of course) to monitor the proper precession of the Earth's axis in order to properly sharpen a knife with laser guidance (of course, with additional ANSI safety procedures to avoid blinding operators from inadvertent laser beam reflections which could burn out retinas).  For that matter, maybe a new building with fail-safe double doors - can't be too sure about safety with women and children in the next county over.

Yeah, sure.

Why not just a simple water stone, an angle guide set at the desired angle (to let users feel out the proper angle) and some water.

I will bet it will be a lot quicker, simpler and cheaper than a "computer laser guided precession sharpening system".

Galley Swiller


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## millionsknives

I just rub metal on some rocks.


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## texasgrillchef

MillionsKnives said:


> I just rub metal on some rocks.


What century are you living in? That's how Romans sharpened their swords too!


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## texasgrillchef

Galley Swiller said:


> A computer laser guided precession sharpening system?
> 
> Gee! Who makes those? I can see it now - three rooms with 15 electronic technicians and one supervising electrical engineer (with a State Certification in Electronic Engineering, of course) to monitor the proper precession of the Earth's axis in order to properly sharpen a knife with laser guidance (of course, with additional ANSI safety procedures to avoid blinding operators from inadvertent laser beam reflections which could burn out retinas). For that matter, maybe a new building with fail-safe double doors - can't be too sure about safety with women and children in the next county over.
> 
> Yeah, sure.
> 
> Why not just a simple water stone, an angle guide set at the desired angle (to let users feel out the proper angle) and some water.
> 
> I will bet it will be a lot quicker, simpler and cheaper than a "computer laser guided precession sharpening system".
> 
> Galley Swiller


Lol who knows! It's exacltly why you don't see very many of them. The only two I have ever seen were at knife production plants that made knives. Only their most expensive knives were finished and QC'd in those machines.

I don't like sharpening knives, just like I don't like changing my own oil. (My dad mad me do it in the 70's) nor do I like to refill my own printer cartridges.

If you want to sharpen your own knives then cool! Have fun! Enjoy! If you don't like doing that. Then my option might be one to consider.

One other nice feature of these, if they get stolen, then who cares!

When I went to culinary school I had expensive knives. I had a couple stolen. Let's just say OUCH to my pocket book. Most of the help in professional kitchens especially busboys etc and other minimum wage staff will steal that stuff in a heartbeat.


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## tweakz

I totally understand your point about potential losses. I wouldn't even take a $100+ knife to work.

The house knives we have at work are decent but toothy (Cozzini Bros), and my co-workers think dragging the blade edge across the board to move food, and hammering with it is pro. Luckily I do most of my prep when most people are gone and we're closed; so I can whip out a decent economic knife (Tojiro or Victorinox) that only I use. Any knife I bring regardless of cost; I'd have to keep an eye on it, or secure it somehow. It's not just about theft; but damage too. I wouldn't shirk off even a $5 knife at the rate they damage edges.

I only know of Wusthof that uses laser guiding in the manufacturing process and they're not even a popular brand here among non tv chefs (they are well marketed on tv shows and internet). Is there any comparisons of laser guided sharpening vs Wicked Edge or some other contraption? - A fairly cheap knife sharpened on a Wicked Edge: 



 -hanging hair test at 2:30.

Have you actually tried sharpening on stones? I like how Murray Carter makes it look easy (which it is) in this video: 



 I was intimidated at first, but found it quite simple. I haven't removed the bur on wood, but I have on the stone (with little effort despite what some have said about Tojiro and stubborn burs). I also haven't used edge guides or even done the folded paper guide. You can just tell when you're actually working the edge or not through sound and feel. It seems like with $5 knives that you could just use a carbide sharpener or a Chef's Choice -would that be more trouble than buying more knives? It's not like you're aiming for a smooth shave capable knife at that price point anyway (?).

I'm not a big believer in recycling. -Re-using is better? Co-workers and family loved getting my old home knives when I upgraded.


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## phaedrus

tweakz said:


> I totally understand your point about potential losses. I wouldn't even take a $100+ knife to work.
> 
> The house knives we have at work are decent but toothy (Cozzini Bros), and my co-workers think dragging the blade edge across the board to move food, and hammering with it is pro. Luckily I do most of my prep when most people are gone and we're closed; so I can whip out a decent economic knife (Tojiro or Victorinox) that only I use. Any knife I bring regardless of cost; I'd have to keep an eye on it, or secure it somehow. It's not just about theft; but damage too. I wouldn't shirk off even a $5 knife at the rate they damage edges.


Jesus, I hate those knives! We get ours as a lease from a place in MN and the sharpening job they do is _ROUGH_! Incredibly toothy, crocodile toothy! They only hold and edge for a couple days, too.


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## rick alan

Ahahaha, laser guided sharpening.  At Wusthof what that amounts to a laser profile measuring tool that, when the belt sander technician sticks it thru the slot, tells him if he's produced an edge that meets some predetermined criteria.  What that meant to this end user is a mediocre edge that demanded I immediately put on something better.  I will grant that the 9" Ikon slicer came in pretty thin behind the edge, which is what you really want to see ootb, and if the laser rejects anything less then there's a decent payoff there for the consumer.

Rick


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## tweakz

Toothy is nice for some things like silver skin that will wrap around a shaving sharp blade edge, or cutting into vacuum bags. The biggest problem I have with the house knives are the people on the other shift that drag the blade edge across the board, and somehow put highly visible dents in the blade.

The video I saw of Wusthof manufacturing showed machines doing the work. You may know the procedure before petec: 'Precision robots sharpen the blades on a whetstone.' -http://www.wuesthof.com/international/knowledge/petec/index.jsp


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## rick alan

No video there anymore, couldn't find any on youtube showing a robot actually doing the edge.  Oh well either way, and regardless of what actually is done, ootb sharpness is of course of limited value anyway, but like said if they consistently ship blades thin behind the edge that's what really counts for something.

Rick


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## tweakz

Was posting the link for the quote, here's a video:






*edit -oops; not the one I watched before. I'll look for it.


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## dcarch

Any steel can be razor sharp out from the factory. It does not have much meaning.

dcarch


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## casaluz-chef

Late to the party, here is my list:
Aritsugu Yanagiba White steel 300 mm 
Masamoto KS Sujihiki 270 mm
Takeda Stainless Super Sasanoha Gyuto 250 mm
Takeda Stainles Super Deba
JCK Special 210 Damascus Gyuto
Murray Carter 5.2 sun Kurouchi Nakiri
Masamoto VG 120 mm petty
Aritsugu A type 180 mm petty
Gesshin Kagero 240mm Powdered Steel Gyuto
Suisin High-Carbon Steel Honesuki 5.9"
Wusthoff Bread Knife
Gesshin whetstone 1000 grit
Arashiyama whetstone 6000 grit


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## scott livesey

ordo said:


> "Don't be cheap if you have the money, the resources, the time, etc." I say that to myself every time I have to take a decision or buy something.
> 
> Can you cook with a $40 knife? Of course you can, no doubt about it. But look: my grandma would be surprised (and even offended, given her poor origins) to hear somebody spent such money when she could cook with a $2 knife. And she was an outstanding cook, oh yes.
> 
> Isn't there a pleasure in using the best tool you can afford, a tool you feel comfortable with, that unite noble materials, beauty and functionality? And in a subtle way, doesn't that pleasure transmits to the final result?


I read this and related posts with a bit of a grin. A lot of inexpensive knives can be sharpened to a good edge and maintained that way. a lot of very expensive knives can be sharpened to a good edge (there are several premium Japanese makers who ship knives without a final edge) and maintained that way. most expensive and inexpensive knives will have handles that sorta work kinda sometimes. IMHO, the handle is as important as the blade, especially if you are in a situation where you are cutting for hours at a time.

On sharpening, here is an easy to follow video showing how to sharpen a cheap knife on a cheap sharpening stone. 




there is an obscure brand, Alten Seemans Messer, where the maker pays as much attention to shape and finish of the handle as they do the blade.

Scott


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## ordo

That's one of the must horrific sharpening videos i've ever seen in my life. My eyes hurt, my soul is in extreme pain and i know tonight i will suffer terrifying  nightmares. Why? Why did you do this to me?


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## tweakz

Had a Farberware Pro Forged knife which according to many youtube experts was good because full tang, triple rivets. Problem with the knife is you could see the carbides with the naked eye and it would never be razor sharp.

I have this knife someone gave me that was as dull as I've ever seen a knife. It says 'Prince Devonshire Stainless Steel Japan / Made in Japan'. It's the only knife I used coarser stones on during my first wet stone sharpening session (only one I've thinned also). I've cut many strawberries with it and it still can be used to shave. If you see this knife in a drawer; it's worth saving.





  








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## rick alan

tweakz said:


> Had a Farberware Pro Forged knife which according to many youtube experts was good because full tang, triple rivets. Problem with the knife is you could see the carbides with the naked eye and it would never be razor sharp.
> 
> I have this knife someone gave me that was as dull as I've ever seen a knife. It says 'Prince Devonshire Stainless Steel Japan / Made in Japan'. It's the only knife I used coarser stones on during my first wet stone sharpening session (only one I've thinned also). I've cut many strawberries with it and it still can be used to shave. If you see this knife in a drawer; it's worth saving


The handle's top portion exposed spine is identical to a madeinJapan "Emperor Steel" stainless 240 chefs I use for jobs I won't subject my goto knife for. The steel is soft but takes a real good edge with insignificant burr formation.

Rick


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## rick alan

ordo said:


> That's one of the must horrific sharpening videos i've ever seen in my life. My eyes hurt, my soul is in extreme pain and i know tonight i will suffer terrifying nightmares. Why? Why did you do this to me?


I know Ordo, old chum I feel your pain too.

Rick


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## tweakz

Took a pic of some of my knives. I plan to get in the future a Victorinox semi stiff boner. I'm also interested in an m390 steel 270mm gyuto if no one can talk me out of it; probably from Jon at JKI or Carter.





  








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The Yanagiba is short; yes. I'm not using it, or half these knives professionally.

The Nakiri may seem redundant, but it increases the useable space on the board. This particular one has a nice wide spine where it's pinch gripped for comfort, and it's much lighter than the 270mm gyuto at the bottom of the photo.

I'm also interested in a Kiritsuke (master chef's knife) and why it's not commonly mentioned on this forum.


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## jbroida

tweakz said:


> I'm also interested in a Kiritsuke (master chef's knife) and why it's not commonly mentioned on this forum.


Kiritsuke is not really a chefs knife... kiritsuke is a single bevel knife that combines the function of yanagiba and usuba. This is kind of an "all purpose" knife for chefs doing japanese cuisine, but is not the equivalent of a gyuto or chefs knife.

Now days, there are many people who refer to kiritsuke-shaped wa-gyutos or ryoba kiritsuke as simply "kiritsuke", which i think causes a lot of confusion. Those types are just types of gyutos... not kiritsuke in the traditional sense.


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## tweakz

Thanks Jon, I'll disregard the Kiritsuke.


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## mowgface

Neither Jon, nor Carter carry/make knives in m390.


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## tweakz

MowgFace said:


> Neither Jon, nor Carter carry/make knives in m390.


Yeah, I'm realizing that after looking around JKI. I feel silly for posting it, and am sure JKI will have something comparable or better suited when I'm ready to push the buy button.


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## full sack

Itinomonn Kasumi Gyuto 270mm

Murray Carter Gyuto 235mm

Kasumi Edo Unagi 184mm

Kanesada Usuba 165mm

Murray Carter Funayuki 158mm

Kanesada Deba 145mm

Murray Carter Nakiri 145mm

Mac Pro Pairing 125mm

Asai Mini Petty 75mm

The Murray Carter Gyuto 235mm is my go to knife.  The Kanesada Usuba and Mac Pro pairing, get a lot of use as well.

FS


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## spikedog

Murray carter makes one hell of a knife, bought one at the blade show last year, and now plan to get a another! it makes cutting anything fun!


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## spikedog

i also have a kiritsuke-gyuto from Jon, and it also is a awesome knife, i use it more then most of my other knives, except maybe my takeda, the are great knives, they are all awesome, just have a nice sharping system! they take there edge back in a snap! i cheaper knife will take a long time and will not hold it even for a day!


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## mike9

Currently on my mag bar are all American makers - HHH paring, Ealy paring, Carter paring, Carter 150 petty, Carter gyuto, Marko Tsourkan gyuto, Devin gyuto, Michael Rader gyuto, Carter suji.


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## full sack

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## mike9

Nice unagisaki hocho - do you prepare eels with it?


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## full sack

Thanks Mike.  I haven't used it for eel.  I use more as a Usuba, with a point, for hard vegetables.

It is the only indulgence knife I have; purchased because I liked the looks - the inlaid handle.

Itinomonn Kasumi Gyuto 270mm

Murray Carter Gyuto 235mm

Kasumi Edo Unagi 184mm

Kanesada Usuba 165mm

Murray Carter Funayuki 158mm

Kanesada Deba 145mm

Murray Carter Nakiri 145mm

Mac Pro Pairing 125mm

Asai Mini Petty 75mm


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## ordo

Nice colection FS.


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## mrbushido

Scott Livesey said:


> I read this and related posts with a bit of a grin. A lot of inexpensive knives can be sharpened to a good edge and maintained that way. a lot of very expensive knives can be sharpened to a good edge (there are several premium Japanese makers who ship knives without a final edge) and maintained that way. most expensive and inexpensive knives will have handles that sorta work kinda sometimes. IMHO, the handle is as important as the blade, especially if you are in a situation where you are cutting for hours at a time.
> On sharpening, here is an easy to follow video showing how to sharpen a cheap knife on a cheap sharpening stone.
> 
> 
> 
> there is an obscure brand, Alten Seemans Messer, where the maker pays as much attention to shape and finish of the handle as they do the blade.
> Scott


 worst video ive ever seen this guy needs to learn to sharpen

Watch jons videos muuuuch better


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## mrbushido

I have a victorinox 22cm and 31cm chef knife. Tojiro shirogami 240mm gyuto and a nakiri and 150mm petty.

And my baby the konosuke hd2 270mm gyuto.


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## 4barry

This is my first post - so I thought it only right to start with what is on my knife rack. These are the knives that are in regular use in my kitchen at home. I have a bunch of others that are now in "retirement". I've put quite a bit of thought, research and trial into arriving at this selection of knives - nothing is there by chance. Having said that and, knowing myself as I do, I strongly suspect this list will evolve as time passes.


Wusthof Classic Ikon 9" chef's knife

Kasumi Damascus 7" santoku

Victorinox Fibrox 7½" chef's knife

Wusthof Classic Ikon 3½" paring knife

Victorinox bird's beak paring knife

Victorinox Fibrox 6" boning knife

Wusthof Classic Ikon 9" bread knife

Wusthof Classic Ikon 10" super slicer

Scanpan 10" granton edge slicer


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## alaminute

Takeda carbon 270mm gyuto
Yoshihiro 300mm yanagi
Sugimoto custom 240mm gyuto
Masahiro carbon 150mm petty
Tojiro dp 150mm honesuki
Hattori Damascus 3" pairing
Masakage yuki nakiri 165mm

My next buy will probably be a 300/330 mm masamoto yanagi. Oh yeah and I have shun premier that i [email protected]$&ing hate. Microchips like crazy, can't hold an edge and hardest knife I have to put an edge on. Also if it's in my roll and anyone in my kitchen sees it then they all point and laugh, which is fun.


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## alaminute

Oh yeah, and a takayuki bread knife. Everyone says you don't need a good bread knife but it's the best I've ever used.

@mike9 that's a killer line-up! Any chance you can post a piccy? I like American knives a lot, they're just a tad out of my price range.


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## spoiledbroth

alaminute said:


> Everyone says you don't need a good bread knife but it's the best I've ever used.


 What makes a bread knife "the best" ? Ergonomics?


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## mike9

SpoiledBroth said:


> What makes a bread knife "the best" ? Ergonomics?


It has more to do with the way the edge is ground - pointy, or scalloped. The handle has little to do with it. I reground my Mac's tang to resemble a hankostu when I rehandled it.


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## spoiledbroth

which is better for what kind of application?


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## rick alan

SB has a "point" here. _Pointy_ grinds are best for crusty breads no doubt, while rounded crests such as on the MAC seem to be better for everything else, including the integrity of your cutting board.

Though don't take my word for it, except the board part because it would defy logic otherwise, as I don't use bread knives. For soft bread and sandwiches a really sharp and thin slicer seems to work well enough.

If I did use a BK I'd probably want two different: a flat-bladed one with offset handle, and one with a belly. Actually, make it four, representing pointy and scalloped grinds. Actually, add to that a couple more flat profiles with conventional handles. ;-)~

Rick


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## spoiledbroth

wait, what do you use bread knives for other than bread? that'd be where I'd say a good sharp knife works better, like when I see people peeling larger fruits, pineapple, melons etc with a bread knife, I don't understand why (though I guess could be easier to waste as little flesh as possible doing a sawing motion as opposed to slicing the skin off in one smooth motion). 


I just really like them because I can't see myself cutting a hoagie type sandwich with a suji and a) the whole sandwich fans itself out on the cutting board (assuming a drawing motion like you would use with a slicer) or b) I crush the hell out of the whole thing chopping through the middle.

Though I just watched Julia and Jacques make croque monsieur and madame, cutting the crusts off with carving knives. I feel like my whole professional career has been a lie.


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## rick alan

Quote:


SpoiledBroth said:


> wait, what do you use bread knives for other than bread? that'd be where I'd say a good sharp knife works better, like when I see people peeling larger fruits, pineapple, melons etc with a bread knife, I don't understand why (though I guess could be easier to waste as little flesh as possible doing a sawing motion as opposed to slicing the skin off in one smooth motion).
> 
> I just really like them because I can't see myself cutting a hoagie type sandwich with a suji and a) the whole sandwich fans itself out on the cutting board (assuming a drawing motion like you would use with a slicer) or b) I crush the hell out of the whole thing chopping through the middle.
> 
> Though I just watched Julia and Jacques make croque monsieur and madame, cutting the crusts off with carving knives. I feel like my whole professional career has been a lie.


Mon dieu! If this is so then still maybe it is not impossible to change. Still I do recall trying to explain to someone the significance difference between a sharp knife and a very sharp knife, but to no avail.

That being said, I never said that a bread knife was not better than conventional edges at certain tasks, fact is I can't say it is or isn't outside of the obvious fact that a BK will maintain its perceived sharpness much longer. All I can say is that with "my" slicer I can dehusk pineapple closer to the skin than is practical, and cut any sandwich well, except perhaps where crusty bread is involved as I don't eat the stuff so never tried.

But hey, if edge characteristics and ergonomics of a BK are important enough to you, as you intimated with your reply to M9 and which I was answering to, might as well have all six versions I described.

Rick


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## ordo

I have many knives but today i got a used criollo petty (?) for $4. It's 11 cm. blade and well balanced. It's very rare to get this kind of profile around here. Will be fun to work on it.





  








pettycriollo1.JPG




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ordo


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Nov 16, 2014


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## mike9

Here's a great bread knife video -


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## alaminute

That lady(?) certainly knows her way around a bread knife!

I knew I'd be opening a can of worms with the bread knife comment, lol. I meant exactly what I said the knife I purchased is the best BK I've used yet. The reason I got it is because I used to work with this old Mexican who used to have to cut trash cans full of corn chips every day and I watched him use that knife to plow throught them like butter. I had a really horrible mundial before that and the difference while cutting bread was night and day. It seems -for me- to work better then any offset dexter or any other BK for that matter. It doesn't crush and 'mold' super soft loaves like fluffy baguette, nor does it tear at the crust of really crunchy loave crusts like artisan bread. Everything ends up uniform with almost no effort, the weight of the knife does all the work. 

That's a cool little blade you picked up ordo! Like between a pairing and a petty. Neat addition.


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## rick alan

Mike9 I know you have quite a collection of knives, and you likely know what scary-sharp is.  Having as little practical understanding as I do about BK's I can still easily see using it as a beater knife.  So I'd like to know what other jobs you feel a BK really does better for a home cook than a properly sharpened laser-like knife, because that video doesn't explain it for me.

Rick


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## mike9

I do pretty much everything Rick does in that video plus squash, etc. The thing is that crunchy stuff will take the edge off a laser quickly and you'll be going to the stones more often. That Tojiro is a knock off of the Mac Superior (which jumped in price this year) and has excellent edge geometry. Yes the handles are just production, but they are fun to rehandle. I figure the $69 is cheaper than my time sharpening especially after doing a lot of "crunchy" stuff. 

Another thing is the wave edge can be sharpened by rounding over one edge of your stone. Here is a pic of my Mac Superior - I reground the tang for aesthetic reasons and I like doing knife handles.


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## spoiledbroth

Rick Alan said:


> Quote:
> 
> Mon dieu! If this is so then still maybe it is not impossible to change. Still I do recall trying to explain to someone the significance difference between a sharp knife and a very sharp knife, but to no avail.


what are you talking about man??


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## jacko9

Mike9 said:


> I do pretty much everything Rick does in that video plus squash, etc. The thing is that crunchy stuff will take the edge off a laser quickly and you'll be going to the stones more often. That Tojiro is a knock off of the Mac Superior (which jumped in price this year) and has excellent edge geometry. Yes the handles are just production, but they are fun to rehandle. I figure the $69 is cheaper than my time sharpening especially after doing a lot of "crunchy" stuff.
> 
> Another thing is the wave edge can be sharpened by rounding over one edge of your stone. Here is a pic of my Mac Superior - I reground the tang for aesthetic reasons and I like doing knife handles.


My Google search for this knife turned up an Amazon offering at $92.47 where did you find it for $69?


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## rick alan

Mike9 said:


> I do pretty much everything Rick does in that video plus squash, etc. The thing is that crunchy stuff will take the edge off a laser quickly and you'll be going to the stones more often. That Tojiro is a knock off of the Mac Superior (which jumped in price this year) and has excellent edge geometry. Yes the handles are just production, but they are fun to rehandle. I figure the $69 is cheaper than my time sharpening especially after doing a lot of "crunchy" stuff.
> 
> Another thing is the wave edge can be sharpened by rounding over one edge of your stone. Here is a pic of my Mac Superior - I reground the tang for aesthetic reasons and I like doing knife handles.


Yes, so it is what I would call, for want of a better word, a beater. Doesn't care it's pineapple skin, doesn't care about the cutting surface, sharpen it once in a blue moon. Great for the pro kitchen where everything sees a lot of use/abuse. But for myself personally, it's something I'd rarely reach for.

Rick


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## rick alan

SpoiledBroth said:


> what are you talking about man??
> 
> /img/vbsmilies/smilies/frown.gif


Sorry, just the autistic kids idea of witty repartee. Well in actuality I misinterpreted your comment entirely, sorry.

Rick


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## mike9

The Tojiro ITK is $60 here - http://www.chefknivestogo.com/toitkbrkn.html - the Mac is $90 now.


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## spoiledbroth

is that knife supposed to be more flexible than the dp or something?


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## phaedrus

The Tojiro ITK is a great knife!  I have the prototype but the production ones are virtually identical AFAIK.  Really nice.  The scallop type serrations are great.


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## spoiledbroth

weeeee just scored a mac superior bread knife for 100 flat!! local too.  Cut the pad of my finger a few times just feeling up the edge.


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## Iceman

OK ... I'm trying to understand this ... *$100* ... for a _bread knife_?!?


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## jacko9

Like this one:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/macsubrkn.html

Jack


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## spoiledbroth

Yep. Factor in the poor canadian dollar plus customs and shipping. Regular price was 130 at the shop but it needed to be deburred... the owner wasn't in, I convinced the person at the till it was going to take some serious work.  Hee hee. All knives go for a surplus up here, they were selling Vic Fibrox paring knives for 20 in the display case next to kikuichi. there was the tiniest wire edge on the very tip of the knife. if my phone wasn't in the shop I'd try to take a pic but I think i'd need a real digital camera to get the detail. It was almost imperceptible. Deburred on felt now. Took two tiny strokes 


IceMan said:


> OK ... I'm trying to understand this ... *$100* ... for a _bread knife_?!?


 Vic Fibrox Bakers was 49.99 plus tax. I figured, what the heck. why not get something nice. It'll be the most expensive knife in my proposed kit. For the shopping around I've been doing online and locally it's the best price I could have gotten for the particular knife.


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## Iceman

This is my _"bread"_ knife. I've had it and used it for the past two(2) years. I've never sharpened it and you can't tell it's not new. 




  








Image




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Iceman


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Nov 20, 2014







*Ginsu 04850 Essential Series 9 Inch Original Ginsu Slicer* ... *$10*


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## rick alan

IceMan said:


> This is my _"bread"_ knife. I've had it and used it for the past two(2) years. I've never sharpened it and you can't tell it's not new.
> 
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> *Ginsu 04850 Essential Series 9 Inch Original Ginsu Slicer* ... *$10*


In all honesty I have to say I like his recipes for tomato sauce.

Rick


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## baboon

I am a knife geek and have submerged myself into the masakageworld im currently the proud own of 2 of there sets

Masakage Hikari : vg-10 stainless steel - is a lovely piece of light weight meets hard steel is a smooth knife that cleans easy and sharpens up in a breeze. i mostly use these knives for prepping larger quantity items or when im busy going back and forth from a busy day as they require less cleaning attention.

Masakage Shimo: #2 Shirogami (White carbon) Steel - what can i say about these knives other then absolute magic i often wonder if its me or the knife that's doing the work they are light weight easy gripping and you feel like everything you cut is made of jello thou attention to the finer part of cleaning is a must as rust and discoloring is an ugly thing on knives and often dont cut tomatoes and other acidic foods with them.

well owning several types of other knifes from

Konosuke Mirror Sujihiki 270mm : ive never used this knife i bought it to sit in a room on a case cause you can see yourself in it and the whole room behind you its a small piece of amazing.

Konosuke Sakura Petty 150mm and Konosuke Sakura Sujihiki 240mm : these knives are awesome used them sparingly and are also sitting in a case mostly for show.

2 Wurstoff bread knifes one of 10 inches and the other of 8 inches both from the culinar set.

[h1]Meridian Elite 6 Inch Cleaver: this messermeister cleaves threw anything i put infront of it and can even damage a table or 2[/h1]


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## spoiledbroth

knifewear or import? you must be rich. The masakage hikari are very sexy


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## baboon

not rich at all im a line cook some have been gifts from the future wifey (knifewear) and others have been waited on deals from various online shops. ive done some side paint jobs that have helped me accumalate some cash that has gone into knives. other people buy play station 1 i buy knives.


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## chefboyog

Rick Alan said:


> In all honesty I have to say I like his recipes for tomato sauce.
> 
> Rick


Haha.

Jealous or whats to understand? Or just trolling? Shortage of Chocolate and he pays 100 for a knife tsss tss.

Your bread knife is upside down IceMan why you overpaid 

Heres My breadknife, it was a gift and has a lil sentimental value to it. Also its " stainless". The red handle makes it easy to find ina hurry: Bonus! And it also cuts bread!

That mac is nice I used one similar once SB a good purchase especially if it makes your life easier and happier cutting.





  








image.jpg




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chefboyog


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Nov 21, 2014


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## spoiledbroth

Actually thinking I might return the thing, I've been inspecting the hell out of this knife and there's a mm gap between the tang and one of the scales. Thinking I might return it and opt for the Tojiro ITK. I'm gonna go back to the shop today and see whay I can't figure out. It is a helluva nice knife but truly... there's only one item on our menu that has bread -_- may go get something nice for a la minute and a few utility knives for the 110 bucks I paid.


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## rick alan

The MAC is arguably the best BK out there, but the Tojiro is ground so you can actually sharpen it with nothing but the rounded edge of a stone, a huge plus in the long run.

Rick


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## spoiledbroth

Rick Alan said:


> The MAC is arguably the best BK out there, but the Tojiro is ground so you can actually sharpen it with nothing but the rounded edge of a stone, a huge plus in the long run.
> 
> Rick


You can sharpen the mac the same way, fyi. Ended up switching for a king OEM 6" petty (vg 10 stainless clad, let's see if it chips out...) and the mac 7.25" chef series gyuto. Got a 1200 king stone to go with it and a two sided strop with compound.  I'm not a baker at the end of the day.


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## rick alan

SpoiledBroth said:


> You can sharpen the mac the same way, fyi.


 Good to know, geez, why is there just so much darn misinformation out there???? ;-)~

Rick


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## spoiledbroth

At least that's what they told me  From what I saw from the video on CKTG I don't think any rounding of the stone is even necessary though it will round the corner you use over time. From what I saw online the serrations are minutely different but I don't see it affecting the "shaprenability" -- the mac superior bk is a beautiful knife, whippy is a good descriptor though. 

I'm happier with my gyuto though. Should do well for anything a la minute. Next up: Tojiro DP 240mm Gyuto and 210mm petty. Need to exchange the Ice Bear for something else.


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## phaedrus

IceMan said:


> OK ... I'm trying to understand this ... *$100* ... for a _bread knife_?!?


I once had a $200 bread knife! It was a Shun Elite. Right now I honestly can't tell you why I bought it, seems like I got a good deal on it or something. It was a nice knife but I sold it...just didn't make much sense to have a super expensive serrrated that never got used. Honestly the Tojiro is better for my purposes since it's a bit longer. But I don't use a bread knife much at all, I prefer a gyuto. Still, there are some bread snobs that don't like the texture of bread cut with a super sharp gyuto, so there's that.


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## rick alan

I don't use a BK, but I would if I worked in a restaurant.

BTW, you know you have to take a lot of what the Iceman says with a grain of salt.  In this case I don't believe for a second that he paid much more than a dollar in a discount store for his ginsu.  Sly devil doesn't want to give away his sources.

Rick


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## Iceman

*LOL*. Actually ... that knife came in a set of 5 knives (original, chef, fillet, carving and petty). I got it after holiday season at a mall store called _"As Seen On TV"_. The whole package was $19.99 +tax, but on sale that day @ 50% off.


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## ordo

Aghhhh! You're gonna kill me IceMan!


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## alanhogan

I just switched over to a Shun 8in classic. I love it. Much better than wustof


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## spoiledbroth

Personally I think alot of the shuns have oddly german profiles. Also I would agree they are typically vastly overpriced.


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## nearoffutt

I use mostly old Chicago Cutlery, the ones from before Chicago Cutlery sold out to China. If I need a replacement or want to gift somebody, I search EBay NOS or used as my best source. (NOS= New Old Stock) Occasionally I find stuff on Amazon or Etzy. No plugs intended, just sharing my strategies. Being a cook, I like to give quality knives as wedding gifts. Quality knives have out lasted many marriages!

Mine are all walnut handled with the model number impressed into the handle. While I have maybe two dozen, mostly I use a small parry knife, long bread knife, boning knife, and a chief's knife. I bought mine in the late 1970s. I have never sharpened them, only honed them. They have, of course never been soaked or put into the dishwasher or put into a drawer. They look brand new. I store the less used ones in a block knife holder and a new item that looks like cocktail straws in a wooden tub. My most commonly used knives are on a magnetic strip for both air-drying and storage. I am not a chief, but I am a good bulk cook as the US Army trained me to cook.

The link below was my menu and planner. I share it just for fun.

I was the only cook for 78 to 255 people, depending on various factors. I did have other soldiers assigned to wash dishes and help with preparation both when cooking indoors or on "camping trips".

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...wVmkzZ7SygUD7txpw&sig2=iwen7ExRuw_XdOWmzv63VA


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## rick alan

nearoffutt said:


> I use mostly old Chicago Cutlery, the ones from before Chicago Cutlery sold out to China.
> 
> Mine are all walnut handled with the model number impressed into the handle. While I have maybe two dozen, mostly I use a small parry knife, long bread knife, boning knife, and a chief's knife. I bought mine in the late 1970s. I have never sharpened them, only honed them.


I'd be curious to know what you honed them with. A friend of mine had lots of free time and managed to put a very good edge on a very old and dull carbon knife using just a very old and worn smooth 16" sharpening steel. But that took lots of time.

Rick


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## nearoffutt

I use an oiled stone, with a jig to hold it at 22 1/2 degrees. The stone does not sharpen, as it takes off no metal. I do a couple strokes at the end of the day with each day's use at home.  The knife has always seemed the same sharpness as when we bought them. I do have the steel from Chicago Cutlery, but that is an ego thing, having the "Complete set" that goes with the block holder.


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## jaspernowhere

@nearoffutt How does the stone not remove metal? It is harder than the steel right?!


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## rick alan

When nearoffut said hone I was thinking of a steel.   A fine stone won't remove much metal, and I mistakenly thought these saw use during the military stint.  I can see a 45deg inclusive edge holding up for 35+ years of home kitchen use without much attrition/need of thinning.

Rick


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## jacko9

My existing knives are a collection of many years starting with a 12" chefs kit knife constructed from 1090 spring steel.  This knife takes a wicked edge and has served me well but, it is getting to be too long as I approach 70 years old.  So I currently have on order a 240mm Konosuke HD2 Gyuto and a 240mm Fujiwara Nashiji Gyuto.  My other knives are an assortment of Henckels and Wusthof's.

Jack


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## jaspernowhere

Currently in my kit:

Cck 1103
Richmond SAB 52100 250 mm
Tojiro white #2 gyuto 240 mm
Unknown carbon 240 mm yanagiba
Dexter "odc" 6" boning knife
Sysco pairing
Wushtof 200 mm flexible fillet
Unknown stainless sujihiki 240 mm
Global sai 135 mm santoku
King 1000/6000 combo
Bovine strop 
I think that's it.


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## spoiledbroth

New kit:
Tojrio DP 240mm gyuto (came today! woo hoo glided through 50lb of potatos like butter)
Mac Chef Series 180mm gyuto (actually 7.25 but that's what mac bills it as... clearly longer than my 7 inch santoku though)
Tojrio DP 210mm petty/carving (en route to Canada from Japan as I write, express shipping!)
Fujiwara FKM 120mm petty (also en route, from cktg)
Victorinox Forschner Baker's Bread knife

Very happy with the fit and finish on the Tojiro, I would argue it's better than the MAC but I suspect the MAC might have been a one off crappy knife. I don't care but the grind on the face of the knife is about 2 cm short of the edge. Gives it kind of a neat look, but the handle has already reacted to water (2 weeks at work). The mac is also appreciably thicker than the Tojiro, but more whippy certainly. Because the MAC is shorter the whippiness isn't really an issue, just have to be mindful of pressure applied when sharpening. I really love the MAC for a la minute stuff though (line). It's a nice little knife.  Can't wait for my other knives to arrive! And going to grab both the fine and coarse idahones from Paul next pay period, that's the only thing sorely lacking. At the moment sharpening with a 1200 and 4000 king. Tried doping my strop with some green compound (chromium oxide? stuff from Lee Valley) and I'm pleased with the results there as well. The OOTB edge on the Tojiro was poor but that is a sort of blessing as I got to get another sharpening session.  New things are fun.


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## jacko9

My new Konosuke HD2 240mm Gyuto came last week and today my Teruyasu Fujiwara Nashiji 240mm Gyuto arrived with the sharpest edge I've ever seen.  The Konosuke cuts like a laser but is quite lightweight, the Fujiwara Nashiji is much heavier but still cuts through product with no resistance, it's quite impressive.


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## spoiledbroth

I just got a kanetsune sandvik 19c27 150mm petty off ebay for 60 bucks! Anyone have experience with this brand? Or steel for that matter. Impulse buy -.- http://ebay.com/itm/321576322425


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## millionsknives

I have a 19c27 knife.  Easy to sharpen for a stainless.   Heat treatment and tempering vary by maker, even at the same hardness, but I recall mine is 61 HRC.  I think it's a more corrosion resistant AEBL.


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## rick alan

The ebay link isn't working.

19c27 and other sandvik alloys:

http://www.smt.sandvik.com/en/products/strip-steel/strip-products/knife-steel/

19c27 is relatively hard and very wear resistant but not as fine-grained as 12c27 or 13c26 (AEB-L equivalent I believe) or 14c28n (used in the new KSab stainless chefs). Great for utility knives, lower edge stability means edges should probably be 15deg+/side.

Rick


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## spoiledbroth

Is aebl a semi stainless?


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## millionsknives

I think it's also stainless.


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## rick alan

Anything 13%+ chrome is considered stainless, but it's all relative of course.  Slice a tomato and leave it unwiped over night and you'll likely see some small spots of oxidation.

Rick


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## mike9

AEB-L is considered stainless @ 13% chromium.  It's an excellent steel for kitchen knives.  Devin Thomas probably has the best heat treat schedule for AEB-L and his blades are very carbon like in use and feedback on stones.


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## spoiledbroth

here is the ebay link that should work guys... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Ka...ers-Petty-Knife-From-Seki-Japan-/321576322425 Let me know what you think? I thought the handle looked kinda cool and the kanji are engraved which is probably going to be a pain to clean... but it'll be my flashy knife


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## spoiledbroth

for anyone too lazy to click the link here is the kanetsune (picture) from the auction... No it's not the same table as the picture below, mine is just leaving the outward office of exchange in nippon right now 




  








$_57.JPG




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spoiledbroth


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Jan 6, 2015







and here is what i take to work currently




  








20150106_140737.jpg




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spoiledbroth


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Jan 6, 2015







from top zwilling boning knife (stiff)
mac 180mm gyuto 
tojiro 210mm petty
tojiro 240mm gyuto 
vic bakers bk

still waiting on my fujiwara 120mm petty  a few messermeister petite chef paring knives and some other misc hand tools. Dratted UPS...


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## rick alan

SpoiledBroth said:


> here is the ebay link that should work guys... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Ka...ers-Petty-Knife-From-Seki-Japan-/321576322425 Let me know what you think? I thought the handle looked kinda cool and the kanji are engraved which is probably going to be a pain to clean... but it'll be my flashy knife /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif


Kanetsune gets good marks on KKF's forum. Looks like a small gyuto as much as a petty.

I'm not too picky about handle shape but that one fits my general preferences. Basic coffin shape with some carving to put your fingers where I feel they ideally should be in a pinch grip.

Rick


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## full sack

SpoiledBroth said:


> for anyone too lazy to click the link here is the kanetsune (picture) from the auction... No it's not the same table as the picture below, mine is just leaving the outward office of exchange in nippon right now /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif
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> tojiro 210mm petty
> tojiro 240mm gyuto
> vic bakers bk
> 
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## deputy

@SpoiledBroth - do yourself a favour and stop buying more knives (you only have two hands!) and pick yourself up a Thermapen (or even a CDN - I have one and love it...and cheap on Amazon.ca )

I'm willing to bet it will improve your work more than another knife will.


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## rick alan

Deputy, unless I'm mistaking it for some identical looking object of dissimilar characteristic, I believe SB is showing a digital thermometer there.

Rick


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## alaminute

@Full Sacki have that same honesuki, and I love it!!


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## dave kinogie

Now I feel like sharpening my knives, damn it!


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## bbutcher

I have a few:

- 8" Miyabi Birchwood Chefs knife , love it!

- Miyabi Birchwood paring knife, ditto

- and Henckel Pro forged: 8" Chefs, Prepping, Serrated Utility, Slicing, Bread and Paring


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## deputy

I know but I was thinking that a guy on the line could benefit from a more responsive thermometer than that (I'm sure it's not a bad one but if you're on the line, you probably want instant).



Rick Alan said:


> Deputy, unless I'm mistaking it for some identical looking object of dissimilar characteristic, I believe SB is showing a digital thermometer there.
> 
> Rick


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## rick alan

Oh OK deputy, I get what you mean.  Funny, I had one I bought at some closeout place.  It was relatively huge, probe was a bit on the thick side, it read out pretty fast as I recall, about 3sec, but unfortunately it died fast too.  I take it those thin probes on a good unit read in around a second.

Rick


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## chefedb

I counted all mine yesterday ,I have 18 assorted sharp knives all kinds and all brands collected over 50 years in the business. This does not count my decorating tools or ice carving tools.

P/S  I also sold and gave a lot away.


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## alaminute

I have a Q2-450 Proaccurate[emoji]174[/emoji] Quick Tip[emoji]8482[/emoji] Pocket Thermometer from jb prince, and it takes about three seconds.
Thermopens are supposed to be instant read


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## spoiledbroth

Mine is decent enough probably 4-5s read... honestly dont use it too often


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## deputy

SpoiledBroth said:


> Mine is decent enough probably 4-5s read... honestly dont use it too often


Fair enough. I love my "instant" read CDN. I use it all the time. It works remarkably well when you need a temp right away. And the other night, my wife had a bit of a temperature and we couldn't find our usually human thermometer, so she used that one! No sense in having a single use item in the kitchen, amiright???


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## mistacag

I just recently purchased my first chef knife ( Wusthof Ikon Blackwood handle) for cheap. I'm used to the german styled knives (Not an expert at all) since that's all I ever used since I didn't know any better between the differences of each knife. My next goal is to get a gyoto, cutting board and something to sharpen my knives and keep them sharp.


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## ronney jung

was using the shun classics but now I use the shun blue line


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## spoiledbroth

I got the kanetsune, i believe the line is called kumadori. They have a nashiji blue 2 gyuto and nakiri on ebay wih the same handle so presumably they are part of a set. In any case i wasnt as wowed by using it as i was my tojiros or my mac, and so i grabbed the last 45 layer wa handle damascus 150mm petty by sakai takayuki from pf last night. Going to pass the kanetsune on to a friend.


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## alaminute

I'd call us pretty good friends SB, I mean we're basically bff's! [emoji]128540[/emoji]


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## spoiledbroth

it was supposedly handmade but not sure if that refers to the kanji engraving and edge (ootb edge was the best ive seen to date, mirror finished... probably 70/30 grind) but the knife was not straight. Didnt seem to be bent either just simply not trued. The spine I mean, sighting down the edge things seemed kosher. So perhaps its a handmade blade... hard to find any info onlinr about the knife. 

I just didnt care for the profile. Thought I would try something new, but the profile on the takayuki looks more like those on my tojiro and the octagonal hou wood handle is just icing on thr cake. 16 bucks more than the grand cheff for damascus and hammer finishing and a flashier handle made it a good buy in my books.

Picking up a mac ceramic tuesday. Watched a coworker drop his idahone on the floor the other day... craaaack! Snapped in half


----------



## alaminute

Walked in on one of our prep cooks smashing nuts in a ziplock with a ceramic Mac one time. I asked him what he was doing and as he looked up all of the pieces just started falling from the center rod. Hilarious, set him back like $70.


----------



## spoiledbroth

D'oh. Hope it was his own honing rod.


----------



## dave kinogie

Those Idahone ceramic rods are awesome sauce. I swear by mine.


----------



## mcterryur

Before I found this site I felt a little odd of the very intimate relationship I have bonded with my Shun Classic and Premier knives. A love affair superseding the norm. But now I feel just!! Now to find the perfect sleeves and roll for these sharp babes!


----------



## atatax

0120151541a.jpg




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atatax


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Jan 26, 2015


----------



## mcterryur

Where are your sleeves!!!!


----------



## chefnick91

7740_Lifestyle1.jpg




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chefnick91


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Jan 27, 2015


----------



## spoiledbroth

Mmm so i got the cladding polished off my tojiro basically to the point that if I get some polishing compound she will be mirror finished. Debating whether to try it myself...the vg-10 polished up beautifully and seems to stain less that straight molybdenum vanadium knives I've had polished. Gets water spots if I don't wipe it dry though. Probably will be more of a bear to sharpen now too, though my issue is primarily nasty burrs so possibly not.


----------



## spoiledbroth

Benuser said:


> Don't polish soft clad. You will have food sticking to it, the polish won't hold and it is a huge work as you will have to start at the level of the deepest scratches. Better have coarse ScotchBrite with soft clad if you're looking for a uniform appearance. See the Hiromoto in my last post.


no no the vg10 is polished he took the sus or whatever the soft cladding is right off.


----------



## spoiledbroth

With the cladding removed and a good 20 degree bevel put on it the choil actually looks alot more like my mac behind the edge which is still probably my most heavily used knife (line work) and I consider to be suitably thin behind the edge. Both knives are pretty good cutters now but I will have to try my hand at thinning eventually. Probably on my henckel for practice?


----------



## millionsknives

For your first time thinning, I recommend carbon steel knife and coarser stones.  I just do a little bit, every time I have the coarse stones out anyway.  Painters tape for everything over 1cm behind the edge will save you a lot of time making cladding look okay.


----------



## spoiledbroth

(If it wasnt clear my tojiro gyuto isnt clad anymore! But the tape is a good tip.)


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## mike9

Benuser said:


> How thick is that core? How did you remove all the clad? Show us some pictures, please!


Yeah I want to see that too. I thin my old Hiromoto AS and my Takagi Honyaki every time I have the coarse stones out. One of these days I'll start bringing the grit up. That or they'll sit in their boxes till I get my shop and belt grinder set up.


----------



## spoiledbroth

I think the fellow did it progressing through grits on sandpaper, presume at 400 its pretty easy to take the cladding off. I think its off anyway I may be wrong. It doesnt seem terribly thick on my 210 petty but I will try to post pics tomorrow evening. I cant be sure if he used polishing compound or not I will ask him. So far the sticking issues have been less than with the cladding.


----------



## rocknrollcat

Wustof Grand Prix. My second in 5 years, mainly because I use a diamond steel. It's wasteful, but so is using my time unwisely stoning my knife constantly.


----------



## rocknrollcat

I tried that, 5 years of apprenticeship, meticulously stoning a Victrinox 26cm under the watchful eye of a decent range of chefs. Knives are a temporary commodity to me. It was an informed decision, but thank you


----------



## rick alan

@rocknrollcat

The proclivities of professional chefs don't necessarily jibe with home cooks. Consider mounting one of these to a small paddleboard with doublestick foam. Will do a better job than the d-steal, last lots longer too. Just another approach. An extra-fine for sharpening, fine is actually course enough for thinning.

http://www.dmtonlinestore.com/6-Double-Sided-Dia-Sharp-Bench-Stone-P17C5.aspx

Rick


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## rocknrollcat

Thanks Rick, sound advice!


----------



## elrookie

@thetincook ~ Thank you for this tip! As the beginner I am, I was very attracted by the description you gave, and I'm going to get myself a RH Forschner high carbon-stainless 8-inch chef's by Victorinox, one of the few knives they do ship to Brazil, where I live. I'm getting the 8-inch because my hands are somewhat small. I do understand the sharpening issues for high carbon stainless blades, but I think the other aspects of it make up for the extra work on the sharpening.

I'm also going to get a a Mundial chef's and a Mundial flexi boning knife, since they are made down here, and the price is quite good for the work horses they are. Thanks again!


----------



## spoiledbroth

I am going to have to wait a bit to get ahold of a better camera my galaxy s4 mini isn't really worth much in photo taking department. Doesn't do the finish on the tojiro justice. How would a finish not hold up?


----------



## rick alan

For all practical purposes I don't think you really can't take all the cladding off.  I'd be surprised if the core steel were much more than 1mm, so you would be left with a knife as thin as the cheap stamped steak knives you see with the concave grind edges, which btw I absolutely love for slicing butter and chunks of Roquefort, and opening packaging.

As to the food sticking issue, after thinning a Vic, which had a shiny and completely flat profile spine to edge, a potato still stuck to the now roughened surface like a suction cup.  I left one side completely flat though, on the other I ground in what little convexing I could, no more than about a mere .003"/.075mm, and on that side potatoes stick like a slightly more whimpy suction cup.

Rick


----------



## spoiledbroth

The core steel on a tojiro is much more than 1mm. My petty isnt even clad on the final few mm of the face. id posit the cladding on the gyuto was 1mm thick or less. No sticking so far on yukon golds!


----------



## dave kinogie

To answer the original question, I have owned and own a number of knives:

Tojiro DP Gyuto 240mm(sold)

Shun Classic 6 inch Chef's Knife(sold)

Global GS-38 Paring Knife(sold)

Richmond Artifex 243mm Wa-Gyuto(wound up gifting to a friend, loved it as the perfect beater though)

Masamoto KS 240mm Gyuto(really about 253-254mm, absolutely loved this knife, traded it)

Ikeda Damascus Aogami Super KS Clone 250mm Gyuto(actually 253-254mm, identical example in length to my Masamoto)

Shigefusa 180mm Kurouchi Nakiri with custom handle

Kochi Kurouchi Wa Petty 150mm

Konosuke Damascus KD Steel Nakiri 165mm with custom handle

Chicago Cutlery Walnut Handle Bread Knife

I know I'm forgetting one

Masakage Koishi 210mm Gyuto(on the way, just ordered today, very excited for this one!)

I've also had the chance to try a number of other knives, whether friends, co-workers in a past life when I worked in the industry or a couple pass-arounds I've done on other forums.

The 10 knives I really want to obtain at some point, somehow, someway, over the next couple years or so go as follows, in no order though:

Carter Kurouchi Nakiri, at least 165mm in length

Another Masamoto KS

Marko Gyuto, preferably 225mm

Konosuke HD2 Gyuto 240mm

Del Ealy Line Knife

Shigefusa 210mm Kasumi Wa-Gyuto

Adam Marr Parer

Don Nguyen Knife of some type

Takeda 180mm Nakiri

Some sort of full carbon Honesuki


----------



## cletus

stumbled upon this thread. Just did some work to my baby (cleaver on the top, thinning, polishing, sharpening and working on new patina) and thought id show off my arsenal. Three rams forged cleaver. From the sixties i think? Got it at a flea market for 1$. Best dollar ive ever spent! Needed alot of work but sooo worth it. Nice heft, takes an edge and holds it! My previous workhorse is the Lamson stamped santoku "chop knife". I now use the Three Rams for prep and the Lamson on the line. Then my wusthoff fillet and pairing. A Takeda 210 AS KU is in my near future.




  








image.jpeg




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cletus


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Feb 1, 2016


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## couteau

All my professional knives are K Sabatier (20cm chefs, fillet and cleaver) apart from my boning which is 5.1/2" Henckels four star and my office is a cheap piece of crap, but does the job /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif


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## just jim

cletus said:


> stumbled upon this thread. Just did some work to my baby (cleaver on the top, thinning, polishing, sharpening and working on new patina) and thought id show off my arsenal. Three rams forged cleaver. From the sixties i think? Got it at a flea market for 1$. Best dollar ive ever spent! Needed alot of work but sooo worth it. Nice heft, takes an edge and holds it! My previous workhorse is the Lamson stamped santoku "chop knife". I now use the Three Rams for prep and the Lamson on the line. Then my wusthoff fillet and pairing. A Takeda 210 AS KU is in my near future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> image.jpeg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> cletus
> 
> 
> __
> Feb 1, 2016


I've always liked that Lamson. Love the way the blade comes back behind your index finger.

Great for say, slicing a grilled chicken breast and being able to lift all of it with the Lamson for plating.

I might have to rotate mine back into the daily bag.


----------



## full sack

image.jpeg




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full sack


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Mar 7, 2016


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## foody518

Great looking collection, love all the different handles as well.


----------



## full sack

Thanks Foody.
With the exception of 2, they are all Murray Carters. The one with the brass bolster I forged and finished myself, while taking Murray's Journeyman course - one of the most fulfilling courses of my life.


----------



## foody518

Full Sack, you've just given me another life goal


----------



## millionsknives

Sounds expensive!  Make anything since?


----------



## mike9

Changed out my rotation to all J - left to right - Shun Reserve parer, Tojiro ITK 150 petty, Yoshihiro Ikasaki (squid knife), Tojiro ITK 210 gyuto, Itinomonn 240 kasumi gyuto, Hiromoto AS 270 gyuto and Mac Superior 270 bread knife.





  








IMG_20160314_185925_zpskmpkbi7l.jpg




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mike9


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Mar 21, 2016








I made handles for the Tojiros, Hiro and the Mac. The Tojiro ITKs are great bang for the buck and the petty is one of the tallest blades for this size knife.


----------



## mike9

@Benuser - nice "toy" and looks to be in great condition. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/thumb.gif


----------



## jacko9

Added to my collection over the past year;

Gesshin Kagekiyo 270mm White #2 Suijihiki

Teruyasu Fujiwara 240mm White #1 Nashiji Gyuto

Konosuke HD2 240mm Gyuto

Konosuke 210mm Fujiyama Blue #2 Gyuto

Teruyasu Fujiwara Nashiji White #1 150mm Petty

Konosuke GS 150mm Petty





  








P1010372.JPG




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jacko9


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Apr 7, 2016


----------



## chef yigui

I have a wasabi sushi knife 8" arańik 7"half cleaver profile. These Knives have served me well


----------



## luke daigle

We have a local knife maker called Lamson. Really outstanding knives and most people in the area have them. For high quality knives I really prefer Henkels. Victorinox are some really outstanding mid-grade knives, we use them as our house kitchen knives. For a really cheap bang for your buck I use a lot of Dexter knives, particularly for basic work on the line.


----------



## chef yigui

chef yigui said:


> I have a wasabi sushi knife 8" arańik 7"half cleaver profile. These Knives have served me well







  








1460479174047-2031346844.jpg




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chef yigui


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Apr 12, 2016


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## bompetisco

Nice thread since i chnged to japonese knifes, cooking became more thrilling, pleasent and easier, with the ocasional blade kissing meaning some cuts. My first one was Shun premier 8' gyuto, i even scratch her a bit in my sharpening experinces on whetstones with a shun angle guide, it was a metal one....
So after i started looking for a santoku knive and i chose the ryusen tsuchime, since my shun primiere was like that. I like that hammer patter in other things from pots to farming tools so yeah make the set in the same pattern.
Working many hours full preping in festivals proved to be not so confortable for my hand, guess that handle was responsible for a little blister, so i decided to get a new gyuto same ryusen tsuchime line. I quiet like this one, the joining of the blade and handle is what i think is the touch that made me like this knife so much. Plus the handle is thinner than the shun one so more eay to work, in my opinion.
The last one of the Orient style i got is a Tojiro nakiri Zen, but i m considering getting a* Iseya tsuchime* 33layers 180mm but isnt it to big 4 a nakiri?
So
*Shun gyuto primier 210mm
Ryusen Tsuchime gyuto 210mm
Ryusen Tsuchime santoku 170mm
Tojiro Zen nakiri
*
These are my knives that i use the most with my 1st good still and easy to sharp 240mm victoria inox. I also carry a Ivo vegetable knife with cork portuguse cork handle and a petty from a nearby village from my city, Facas do verdugal are a classic in Portugal and they work fine for small knife.
Once again a nice thread
Cheers


----------



## bompetisco

Icel are great! Being from Portugal made me choose these blades, they are the best quality for money and they are well made. Good sharpener service avaible in the factory as well. I changed to japanese knives but still use my icel for heavy dutys and others.


----------



## foody518

Bompetisco said:


> Nice thread since i chnged to japonese knifes, cooking became more thrilling, pleasent and easier, with the ocasional blade kissing meaning some cuts. My first one was Shun premier 8' gyuto, i even scratch her a bit in my sharpening experinces on whetstones with a shun angle guide, it was a metal one....
> So after i started looking for a santoku knive and i chose the ryusen tsuchime, since my shun primiere was like that. I like that hammer patter in other things from pots to farming tools so yeah make the set in the same pattern.
> Working many hours full preping in festivals proved to be not so confortable for my hand, guess that handle was responsible for a little blister, so i decided to get a new gyuto same ryusen tsuchime line. I quiet like this one, the joining of the blade and handle is what i think is the touch that made me like this knife so much. Plus the handle is thinner than the shun one so more eay to work, in my opinion.
> The last one of the Orient style i got is a Tojiro nakiri Zen, but i m considering getting a* Iseya tsuchime* 33layers *180mm but isnt it to big 4 a nakiri?*
> So
> *Shun gyuto primier 210mm
> Ryusen Tsuchime gyuto 210mm
> Ryusen Tsuchime santoku 170mm
> Tojiro Zen nakiri*
> 
> These are my knives that i use the most with my 1st good still and easy to sharp 240mm victoria inox. I also carry a Ivo vegetable knife with cork portuguse cork handle and a petty from a nearby village from my city, Facas do verdugal are a classic in Portugal and they work fine for small knife.
> Once again a nice thread
> Cheers


I always wish nakiri were a little longer... /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif


----------



## chef harris

I started working in kitchens full time as a cook 25 years ago, and have been an Executive Chef for 20 years.  I have beat down some of the best knives over the years, and have arrived at my current kit.  As the other chef's on here know, these knives are a part of me and my food.  I make sure they are always cared for and used by me only.  That is why they last and perform for me time and time again.

Wustoff Classic 10" (flexible) - Very sharp with my ceramic steel ! Flexible enough to filet salmon and trim beef.  Stiff enough to chop just about anything.  Not the best for breaking down meats with bone.

Vintage Dexter Connoisseur 10" 48-10 - (someone else on this thread mentioned that they had this knife too. This is a knife from the early 70's that I got in mint condition.  Very good quality steel.  Very sharp and a beast in the kitchen.  Break down a 40 # case of chicken in record time, wash it off and turn bell peppers into brunois cut.  Very versatile, but too big to hold all day.  It's a beast of a knife.

My knife kit includes:

Henckles Zwillings vintage 8" Fridour Chef knife - Very sharp and flexible.  A great tool that lives up to the name.

Sabatier Diamont 8" Chef knife - French made high carbon carbon stainless.  I can't say enough about this knife.  It stays sharp, It doesnt flex, I feels great in your hand.  It is my go to for vegetables and fine cuts.

Wustoff Torne' paring knife - Excellnt

Zwillings Henckles Pro Series S  - 4 " pairing knife - The steel is phenomenal.  The handle is very comfortable as well.  Used very often, and never fails me.

Zwillings Henckles 6" utility knife

Vintage Dexter Connoisseur 1 " slicing Knife

Zwllings Henckles 7" boning Knife - non flex

Wustoff Classic Boning knife - Flexible

Pakistan Made Domascus 7 " chef knife.  Carbon and razor sharp.

Mundai Clever

Wustoff Bread Knife

Henckles - spain - Santuko knife

Henckles Chanel Knife

Micro Plane Zester

OXO Peeler

Wustoff Parisiene scoop

Titanium Kitchen Sheers

Messermeister Steel

Oval Diamond Steel

Ceramic Steel


----------



## mountainheritag

Hi there. Have you heard of Ken Onion Knives? If so, what do you know of those? I appreciate any info. Thank you so much!


----------



## millionsknives

@MountainHeritag Lol it's maybe the most dysfunctional uncomfortable knife in the world. The grind is fat and wedgy, has way too much belly, and the handle is just a nightmare to use.


----------



## mountainheritag

Thank you very much! Good info!


----------



## dougdale

I have 3 great knives I use. Two Wusthof: both CLASSIC 10" & 8" chefs and a 10" Henckels. All have a great balance and feel good in my hand. One thing I like about Wusthof is they guarantee their knives for life which may make it worth the price. I knocked my 10" chef off the counter and the handle cracked. I wrapped it up and sent it back with NO receipt or paperwork and they sent me a replacement (not sure if it was my own, but I didn't care) within a few weeks.

http://www.wusthof.com/media/wysiwyg/warranty-information-and-returns/Warranty-0415.pdf


----------



## recoilrob

I live about 20 min. from Henckels US headquarters and every year they have a Xmas warehouse sale where everything is at minimum 50% off list. Needless to say i have way more Henckels than I need, including pocket knives, hunting knives, woodcarving tools, etc.

I found the edge to be thick on some larger knives and have ground them down to about 15˚ for much improved performance.

Have to stop buying......


----------



## rick alan

RecoilRob said:


> I found the edge to be thick on some larger knives and have ground them down to about 15˚ for much improved performance.
> 
> Have to stop buying......


Edge too thick, the problem with almost all mass marketed kitchen knives. But there is no reason for you to stop buying knives, just stop buying knives not built for performance.


----------



## recoilrob

The reason to stop buying knives is that I have enough to last me until I leave this earth...


----------



## mountainheritag

Thank you very much. I love to hear the advice and feedback


----------



## isabout

At work? I use the rentals unless something I'm slicing that day requires an actual edge... in which case I bring in one of my knives, usually a 12" Latham. 
At home? I use a vintage knife I found on eBay years ago that looks like something an old hillfolk would eat an apple with for most stuff. I think it's considered a butcher knife. It's a Forgecraft. Kinda looks like a Bowie. It cuts anything and holds an edge for a century. If I'm actually doing a significant amount of cutting, I'll grab my old Wustof 8" Classic Chef. If I'm feeling fancy, I'll get out one of my japanese Gyuto's for most work, but I don't feel fancy often.


----------



## foody518

RecoilRob said:


> The reason to stop buying knives is that I have enough to last me until I leave this earth...


They can be knives to gift out and you can treat yourself to something better performance ))


----------



## rossy

I have a Gesshin Uraku 210mm Wa Gyuto and a Gesshin Uraku 165mm skd Nakiri. I bought them from japanese knife imports about 2 years ago and I couldn't be happier. They hold an edge and can get scary sharp


----------



## wapptor

First proper Japanese knife: Kanehide PS60 240mm Gyuto





  








kanehide.JPG




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wapptor


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Sep 28, 2016








Also use a Global 210mm 'forged' gyuto for less delicate tasks. Have some Shuns in storage somewhere that I received as a gift. Assorted paring knives, cheap serrated etc.


----------



## mike9

I have one of those and they are a great knife for the price. The fit and finish is excellent for the price point - congrats. I bought mine from a fellow on another forum with the intent of sending it to my BIL in Florida . . . that was six months ago - /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif


----------



## foody518

@Wapptor Nice looking knife 

IMO the right bevel (shown in the pic) is a bit large, indicating a more acute angle. If the left bevel is similarly large then that results in an overall quite acute inclusive angle, and if you are still having board sticking or edge retention/stability concerns then raising the angles a bit when you get to sharpening it may help


----------



## wapptor

foody518 said:


> @Wapptor Nice looking knife
> 
> IMO the right bevel (shown in the pic) is a bit large, indicating a more acute angle. If the left bevel is similarly large then that results in an overall quite acute inclusive angle, and if you are still having board sticking or edge retention/stability concerns then raising the angles a bit when you get to sharpening it may help


Yes they all apparently come like that (according to forums where I bought it.) I spent all night/afternoon prepping food with it and am having way less problems. The left bevel is not the same. It's only overground on the right side. I also switched to a different cutting board and am in general using and needing much less pressure to cut. Really happy with the knife so far and I'd rather not sharpen it for a while as the edge it came with seems quite nice.  I do want to decorate the saya though at some point.


----------



## mountainheritag

VERY NICE!!!!!!!!!


----------



## foody518

Most frequently used knives the past 2 months: Ikazuchi 240mm gyuto from JKI and Dan Prendergast integral ~230mm chef's knife/gyuto





  








20160929_203637.jpg




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foody518


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Sep 30, 2016


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## rickb1415

I have bought tons of knives over the years, and I can honestly say, my favorite have to be my Messermeister Meridians... They weren't crazy expensive and have survived 8 Years of use.. I always put them away for a bit when I buy a new knife of similar use, then always find myself using them as my "Beater knives" but then I always realize I use them more, the edges are still there with minimum up keep and a ton of use. My guys in the kitchen always ask for my slicer to break down large fish, and I cant tell you how many times that thing has been dropped, left out, put thru bone.. and I only actually sharpen it once every couple of months... just hone it regularly.


----------



## michaelfoodie

I got a full Global G Series knife set about a year ago- they're really good! Also got some Victorinox and 4 star Sabatier Elephant pieces.

I take them to be professionally sharpened every 6/12 months and use a steel myself. I've got a Robert Welch handheld sharpener too which is great for a quick sharpen.


----------



## bcobb35

I use a six inch and 8 inch chefs Victorinox knife. I love the nonslip handles and the balance of the knives.


----------



## mountainheritag

Thank you!


----------



## playero

at the moment

1. kramer 2y

2. onion rain 2

3. global classic 10

4. global ini 2

5. KAI 3

6. zwilling 5

7. ceramic 1

8. sabatier 3

9. tramontina 2

10. cold steel 1

11. carter 1

12. sharper image 18

13. chicago cutlerly 6

14. wustoff 2

15. saji on the way this week

benchmade for carry on


----------



## playero

[No message]


----------



## culinarygirl78

I use global ...but I don't own a set of any in particular. ..


----------



## nauticus

Knife set.jpg




__
nauticus


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Dec 1, 2016








From left to right, a blue carbon Fujimoto deba for processing proteins and fish, I'm actually not sure the maker of this, but it's a Japanese handcrafted white carbon nakiri for veggie preparation, and a 240mm Fujiwara Maboroshi white carbon gyuto. Best chef's knife I've ever used. The last is a Henckels fillet knife, though that has since been overtaken by the deba.

Still on the market for a pairing/utility knife, but the gyuto is sharp as anything and amazing at what it does.


----------



## playero

IMG_2294.JPG




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playero


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Dec 1, 2016


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## playero

IMG_2098.JPG




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playero


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Dec 1, 2016


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## wapptor

My Sabatier.jpg




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wapptor


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Dec 1, 2016








>.>


----------



## wapptor

Can you tell where my thumb sits?


----------



## millionsknives

I had a thumb spot like this on my cleaver but it turned to rust and now it is a shiny spot from where I sanded it off.


----------



## scott livesey

Honyaki ajikiri style paring knife made of 1.5mm 100MnCrV4 high carbon tool steel. cutting edge is 3.875" long, 1.675 at the widest point. 0.005" at the edge, 0.02" 1/4" up and 0.03" 1/2" up. Handle is book matched oak.





  








DSCF0291_zpsm4y3ncnf.jpg




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scott livesey


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Dec 2, 2016


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## rick alan

I have to say that these are very reasonably priced customs if they are all ground as thin as the one above.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/289498945/seax-replica-made-of-high-carbon-tool


----------



## playero

Tramontina Brazil




  








IMG_1028.JPG




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playero


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Dec 3, 2016


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## happyhobby

I am a hobby cook. I have had a set of tramontina for years, they were okay. I used advice here to upgrade, but not exactly as most people here do...

I bought the Victornoix paring knife and bread knife for cheap on Amazon. The only issue is the paring knife is so cheap my wife uses it as a utility knife. Great and cheap, easily replaceable.

I got a Kershaw cheap ($15) santoku from amazon. Love it. Easy and fast for most things. Easy to sharpen. So handy a friend got one, too.

My wife took a knife skills class at a local trendy grocery store, and wanted a great knife. We got her a Tojiro DP Gyuto. She likes it, I don't find it as fast as my cheap Kershaw santoku.


----------



## scott livesey

some are that thin, some aren't, different tasks need different blades.  the knife above is for slicing veg, fruit, and boneless protein.  

scott


----------



## veganhunter

My first day here as well. I suffer from a few issues. One of which is knives always have. While my knife collection continues to find additions that challenge the number one slot my two favorite knives are both Shun Edos. 8" and the utility knife with very little rocker to it. There kind of hefty so people that like a lighter feel may not find it to be the right choice. It is also a very pretty knife with its hammered finish and curvy handle. I do not prep anything with bones with these knives. For that 

I have a couple of Chicago cutlery knives that I keep razor sharp see note below. These sell for as low as $25 and your can find them ranking with knives running upwards of $250 in many reviews. I make the edge 21 to 23 degrees which will not slice tomatoes two weeks after they have been sharpened but they will stand up to hittting bones and continue to cut very well. My veggie knives are all done at 14 to 15 degrees ( this is less than what they come with) and I keep them honed and razor sharp at all times. 

Which brings up another subject with extreemly sharp knives. If youve decided to go with low angle profiled knives like most Japanese steel your cutting board choices can kill your edge in a nano second. Take all those plastic mats and plastic cutting boards and recycle them or donate them to good will. The fine edge stick in these and as you lift the blade the fine edge tends to bend or fold. I have had great luck with epicurian but end grain wood butcher block is the best. I generally have three cutting boards in use for an average meal so having three thick slabs of butcher block around isnt an options so I have a pile of epicurean cutting boards. 

OK to justify all of that, I own an edge pro professional sharpening system the upper end unit. And i use it a lot. I take it on vacation and sharpen everyones knives when im there. I guess thats an issue I have to go along with my knife issue as well. Mainly I take it because I cannot stand using knives that are not pretty much razor sharp and being almost vegan I end up cooking on just about all my trips so I am really sharpening there knives so I can stand to be in someone elses kitchen. 

Ive got a lot of sharpening experience if I can elaborate or answer any questions Ill try.


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## mhpr262

VeganHunter said:


> I own an edge pro professional sharpening system ... [...] ... Ive got a lot of sharpening experience


LOL


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## culinarygirl78

I love my globals ...have had for years


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## foody518

@VeganHunter May I ask - what's the lowest angle the Edge Pro can be set at?


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## millionsknives

@foody518 you can go a little under 10 degrees. Thinning is impossible on edgepro. To sharpen properly on edgepro you need to change the angles a lot between heel and tip, which most people don't bother with. So they end up with a wider bevel at the tip and crisp bevels. It's just a start and then you should blend the shoulders on stones, at which point you might as well use stones.

Seems like a lot of trouble to bypass learning a simple skill IMO


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## foody518

Thanks Millions. Was curious because was thinking about thinning and I'd guesstimate my angles for that (knife dependent) range from 3-8 degrees


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## rick alan

@foody518, if you have basic wood-working tools it is not difficult at all to make a jig out of wood that will give you any angle you want to hold


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## foody518

Thanks @Rick Alan. Woodworking is something I plan on getting into in a few years, haven't a single tool now. And I enjoy freehanding a lot. Was just curious about the common jigs vs thinning


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## veganhunter

I find making consistent edges with the edge pro to be very simple to master unlike a flat stone. While working the tip of a hefty curve requires a little practice to make the bevel work right is not difficult. I disagree that anyone can master freehand stone sharpening Im actually quite good with flat stones. After breaking the curve of most factory belt sharpened knives for the first time I can make them flawless in minutes with the edge pro. And know prety much dead on what my angle is. 

One other factor about the edge pro if you do a lot of different knives from Japanese cooking knives to thick hunting knives I know exactly what angle performs the best without guessing as Im doing with a flat stone. 

Will it match the performance of an edge done by someone that has mastered flat stones every time no. And i wont dispute that someone with the experiecen and touch can make a chefs knife better than that of an edge pro or any other sharpening system for that matter but few can actually master this. 

For someone whos looking for a sharpening system that works great and is easy to learn to use I doubt theres a sharpening system to match it. And the reviews for this system back that theory a lot.


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## foody518

@VeganHunter the curiosity was more with understanding how it handles knife geometry which is more than the edge bevel


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## veganhunter

After you work with it a little and I mean very little it is very easy to work the tip and curved sections to a very precise edge you do have to move the knife around and each knife has a different characteristic. I actually find the curved and tip sections easier to perfect with the edge pro than by hand and I have a lot of experience with flat stones. Hunting knives or knives without flat surfaces are challenging at first but easily overcome. 

For me I like the fact that i can get what id call the perfect angle. If I find a particular knife performs best for my use at a 14 degree edge I can match that every time. By hand thats not so easy to do. Theres also a plethora of knock offs that are not an edge pro. I own the edge pro proffessional which is in fact $780 for everything I have. They sell a consumer version that is close to $200 and the stones are very high quality on either unit. I do a couple of friends or family members hair cutting scissors and they will in fact bring them to me out of the box because they are sharper than their factor edge when im done with them. And Im talking about $300 scissors. Not your basic scissors. 

And I will restate that people with the skills for flat stone work can make fantastic edges but I can make any cooking blade razor sharp in a lot less time with a lot less effort. I still have mine in the bottom of my closet though. 

When do my buddies hunting knifes I finish with a varied angle and then polish them with the 3000 grit tape strip most dont want to use them afterwards because the polish is very pretty. No BS buddy of mine didnt want to use his knife on a deer a couple years ago.


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## TheBarb

Just signed up, and this seems like a good place for a first post. My two favorite knives are my Mac damascus santoku and my Kurosaki AS 210mm gyuto. The Kurosaki is scary sharp, light weight, and an absolute pleasure with every cut I make. The Mac is my work horse, as it is heavier, sharpened at a wider angle, and full stainless steel.

Cheers everybody!


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## rick alan

TheBarb said:


> Just signed up, and this seems like a good place for a first post. My two favorite knives are my Mac damascus santoku and my Kurosaki AS 210mm gyuto. The Kurosaki is scary sharp, light weight, and an absolute pleasure with every cut I make. The Mac is my work horse, as it is heavier, sharpened at a wider angle, and full stainless steel.
> 
> Cheers everybody!


Both beautiful for the purposes they suite.


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## teamfat

I tend to avoid knife discussions, but thought I ought to chime in here. My daily blade is a New West 9.










For many, many years I used knives from a set of Chicago Cutlery, from back in the day when they were made in the Chicago area, from steel that came from the iron ore shipped along the Great Lakes to mills in Gary, Indiana and such. The New West came into my hands not by choice, but by luck.

Years ago ChefTalk welcomed a new sponsor, New West Knife Works. Part of that process was a drawing for ChefTalk members, the prize being a bright and shiny New West 9. I got lucky. Still use the other Chicago knives regularly, but the New West does the lion's share of cutting in my kitchen these days.

mjb.


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## Iceman

New West Knife Works makes pretty stuff ... they are however, in the very expensive range.


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