# Toast and Scrambled Eggs: 30 covers Sous vide?



## Tday01 (Feb 4, 2018)

Hello All,

I have only recently started cooking professionally (at Feastly pop-ups in San Francisco). These are a good place to start, because the menu is fixed. The downside is that 25 - 35 covers need to be served at the same time!

We recently started recipe development for truffled scrambled eggs on toast. I am hoping for some advice on two topics from experienced chefs.
1. Is there a way to hold 30 pieces of toast for almost simultaneous service?
2. What is the best way to prep and hold scrambled eggs? I was thinking to pre-cook to the required doneness in a a sous vide (74°C). Shock in an ice bath, and then hold at 55°C for service.
I'm sure these problems have been solved before.
TIA
Tony


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

How did you want to scramble the eggs once they're in a vacuum bag?

Holding toast is no problem, any hot box or even oven will do the trick


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## Tday01 (Feb 4, 2018)

I was planning to heat at 74°C in the bag, with a massage every 5 minutes. This has worked for me in the past (albeit at small scale). I haven't yet tried calling and reheating to 55°C.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Why the need to hold the eggs?


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## Tday01 (Feb 4, 2018)

I have 30 -35 to serve simultaneously, so need a way to reheat / hold without ruining the texture. Their aren't the facilities to cook fro scratch. I could start with uncooked eggs in the bags and then cook them all at once in the bath.


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

Service for 25-35 is not a big deal. I think you are overthinking the task. Get your self a couple of butane burners and cook on site. https://www.webstaurantstore.com/ch...ane-countertop-range-15-000-btu/47290019.html You can crack the eggs ahead of time and hold the uncooked in a Styrofoam cooler with ice in a ziplock bag. As another on this site often says "It ain't rocket science." Eggs are cheap at this time, buy a case and practice a few times. Good luck!


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

As Jimy says, a couple of butane burners will do the trick, or electric hot plates, or portable induction heaters. In any case you still need power on site for your water bath, right?

Scrambled taste best when you add a good shot of cold cream to stop the cooking process to the eggs, and it works best using a wire whisk, you get very nice fluffy scrambled.

I dunno, sous vide has its place, but I don't think it's practical for scrambled eggs.


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## Tday01 (Feb 4, 2018)

I Like that idea. I also like the shot of cream to stop from over-shooting.


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

Welcome to ChefTalk Tday01.
I was not aware of what "Feastly pop ups" was until I looked it up.
I think it's a great idea.
For you, using a place with no cooking facilities is kinds strange no?
Don't most Chefs offer up their own kitchens?
Do the Chef's have to have their kitchens inspected?
What if someone gets sick?


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

jimyra said:


> Service for 25-35 is not a big deal. I think you are overthinking the task. Get your self a couple of butane burners and cook on site. https://www.webstaurantstore.com/ch...ane-countertop-range-15-000-btu/47290019.html You can crack the eggs ahead of time and hold the uncooked in a Styrofoam cooler with ice in a ziplock bag. As another on this site often says "It ain't rocket science." Eggs are cheap at this time, buy a case and practice a few times. Good luck!


jimyra, I thought "pooling eggs" is a big no-no.
Those purchased bags of eggs with citric acid, although not that tasty, is safer to use no?


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

You are correct. My thought was that the eggs would be cracked into a bag and stored on ice for immediate transport to the venue. The eggs would be mixed, cooked,and served as a banquet service. I see this as different from mixing a gallon of eggs and using them four ounces at a time over a long period of time. If setting up for a banquet a chef cracks four dozen eggs into a container and puts then in a cooler for an hour or two then cooking them in one batch, is that pooling? I think batch cooking and pooling are different, I stand to be corrected without offense taken. Good discussion.


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

You are correct. My thought was that the eggs would be cracked into a bag and stored on ice for immediate transport to the venue. The eggs would be mixed, cooked,and served as a banquet service. I see this as different from mixing a gallon of eggs and using them four ounces at a time over a long period of time. If setting up for a banquet a chef cracks four dozen eggs into a container and puts then in a cooler for an hour or two then cooking them in one batch, is that pooling? I think batch cooking and pooling are different, I stand to be corrected without offense taken. Good discussion.


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

You are correct. My thought was that the eggs would be cracked into a bag and stored on ice for immediate transport to the venue. The eggs would be mixed, cooked,and served as a banquet service. I see this as different from mixing a gallon of eggs and using them four ounces at a time over a long period of time. If setting up for a banquet a chef cracks four dozen eggs into a container and puts then in a cooler for an hour or two then cooking them in one batch, is that pooling? I think batch cooking and pooling are different, I stand to be corrected without offense taken. Good discussion.


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

jimyra said:


> You are correct. My thought was that the eggs would be cracked into a bag and stored on ice for immediate transport to the venue. The eggs would be mixed, cooked,and served as a banquet service. I see this as different from mixing a gallon of eggs and using them four ounces at a time over a long period of time. If setting up for a banquet a chef cracks four dozen eggs into a container and puts then in a cooler for an hour or two then cooking them in one batch, is that pooling? I think batch cooking and pooling are different, I stand to be corrected without offense taken. Good discussion.


Pooling eggs is cracking multiple eggs into one container. It doesn't matter that you take the steps to cool it down. The fact of the matter is that one contaminated egg can contaminate the rest. This is why pooling is a no-no. I don't know if this ruling is the same in every state.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Some health agencies enforce a 30 minute time limit for pooling of eggs. I don't know what their stance would be if using pasteurized eggs, and in my experience, the field agent doing the enforcing would probably be flummoxed by the question.


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## Requenatelisa12 (Feb 6, 2018)

thank you I was looking for something similar, I'll tell you how


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## Tday01 (Feb 4, 2018)

chefross said:


> Welcome to ChefTalk Tday01.
> I was not aware of what "Feastly pop ups" was until I looked it up.
> I think it's a great idea.
> For you, using a place with no cooking facilities is kinds strange no?
> ...


Feastly (optionally) provides event space. The equipment can vary from full commercial kitchen, to "residentially" equipped loft space. 
I will have a stove top, and an oven. 
One suggestion from another chef was to mix the eggs and hold at 53°C, and then cook to order. This overcomes the pooling risk (pathogens don't grow at 53°C), but is too low a temp for the eggs to cook.
My issue wasn't so much lack of cooking facilities as how to get good quality scrambled eggs on the table at the same time. hence the thoughts about SV.


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## Tday01 (Feb 4, 2018)

Feastly also checks out the Chefs and provides insurance. Its a great system for people to start on their own without the cost of starting a restaurant. There is one couple ("Istanbul Modern"), where she was a sous chef at Saison (3 Michelin stars), and he at Mourad (1 star). Great food and they get to get do their own thing. We on the other hand are amateurs ("you can find us under 30KnotGourmet").


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

I'll try to post this just one time.
I think the best solution for this post would be for the poster to take the eggs to the venue crack them into a bowl and cook them. I have no idea what a health inspector would say pooled eggs are but they are the boss so I'll go with you all.
I did find this as a reference: 
"For this evaluation pooling of shelled eggs consists of breaking and combining more than one shell egg in preparation of multiple entre ́es not intended for immediate service."

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/ehs/ehsnet/docs/jfp_egg_practices_article.pdf

My interpretation is that the eggs were always kept cool and on ice. Also, they were for one entree. The health inspector is always right.


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## azenjoys (Jun 28, 2017)

Slightly confused. @Tday01 - What is your source for "pathogens don't grow at 53°C"? 53 C = 127 F - aka squarely in the temperature danger zone, no?

You could also pasteurize your whole eggs using your circulator before pooling/holding chilled/cooking a la minute. http://blog.sousvidesupreme.com/2014/08/pasteurized-eggs-sousvide/#sthash.J0hwKq3X.dpbs

Lastly, how complicated is the overall plating for this dish and how many servers will you have? Does it make sense to cook/plate/serve all 25-35 servings at once or would you be better off cooking/plating/serving in a few sets for this course? Or re-conceptualizing the dish to be more friendly to this style of service? A small portion of scrambled eggs on toast seems like it would become unappealingly cold and soggy very quickly. What about doing individual shirred eggs in little jars or covered ramekins in a perf pan set into water heated with your circulator and then serving the toast on the side?


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## Tday01 (Feb 4, 2018)

I have a microbiology background in a prior life. Pathogens won't grow at 53°C, although they won't all be killed. So if you held at 53 and then let go back to room temperature where they can start growing again, you have a potential problem. The goal is to make sure that nothing grows while they are held. However, holding at 57 would probably work just as well. (Pasteurization at the link you sent was 57°C).

Two servers. I _like_ the idea of ramekins with toast on the side. Another option, that I have seen, might be to serve the eggs family style (in portions of 4), that would hold the heat better than individual portions. The set-up doesn't allow for more than a couple of sets. Seating is family style at long tables.

Thanks for the suggestion!


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## azenjoys (Jun 28, 2017)

Interesting - sounds like you have a good handle on the food safety. 

Have you served family style at these meals before? I'm assuming it's a tasting menu format served at a shared table?

My experience is that diners are generally comfortable sharing family style dishes with people in their own party, but that sometimes people are more awkward/hesitant when sharing with strangers (not always, but it's not uncommon). 

Are you doing truffle shavings? Getting people who don't know each other to divvy up a luxury ingredient adds to the awkwardness too.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Uh...Why not just buy liquid pasteurized eggs? They've been around for oh, 25 years now. Heath inspectors seem to like them...


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

azenjoys said:


> Slightly confused. @Tday01 - What is your source for "pathogens don't grow at 53°C"? 53 C = 127 F - aka squarely in the temperature danger zone, no?
> 
> You could also pasteurize your whole eggs using your circulator before pooling/holding chilled/cooking a la minute. http://blog.sousvidesupreme.com/2014/08/pasteurized-eggs-sousvide/#sthash.J0hwKq3X.dpbs
> 
> Lastly, how complicated is the overall plating for this dish and how many servers will you have? Does it make sense to cook/plate/serve all 25-35 servings at once or would you be better off cooking/plating/serving in a few sets for this course? Or re-conceptualizing the dish to be more friendly to this style of service? A small portion of scrambled eggs on toast seems like it would become unappealingly cold and soggy very quickly. What about doing individual shirred eggs in little jars or covered ramekins in a perf pan set into water heated with your circulator and then serving the toast on the side?


I like how you were confused as to why he/she thought holding eggs at 127F (squarely in the danger zone, no?) wasn't a problem then instantly suggested holding eggs at 135F (squarely in the danger zone, no?) for 2 hours. Gave me a chuckle.

To the OP, the simple fact is that there is not a good way to hold scrambled eggs. The way you get around it is to scramble then a la minute and do them in batches. I.e. cook 10 orders, then 10 more, then 10 more. Scrambling eggs takes little time and assuming you have your mise en place set up correctly, you should be able to scramble/plate 30 orders of eggs in less than 10 minutes, easily.


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

Someday,
What would your mise en place be for the eggs? Lets assume 2 eggs per plate.

Just as an aside: when I was in the Army, (shortly after Pasteur discovered germs), the mise in place for eggs for breakfast was
to break six eggs into a bowl place 24 bowls on a sheet pan and continue until the required number were reached. This stack of sheet pans were put on a rolling cart and put in the walk in. Just before service they were wheeled out to the chow line. The cooks would cook two at a time to order on a flat top. As I remember up to 500 men were served in 30 minuets. I was not a cook I was on KP, I broke the eggs.


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## Tday01 (Feb 4, 2018)

Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions so far!!

@azenjoys: These Feastly events are set-up at long tables and designed for family service. Part of the experience is to meet new people. Usually ~ 50% of the attendees have been to prior events and so explain it to the newcomers. You can get an idea of it here. Our events are here:
I am doing truffle shavings. They are an up-sell and will be shaved individually by the server to those that have purchased them.

@someday: I understand that this is defined as the danger zone. And I understand why this is so for a full on commercial kitchen where you need a margin of error, and things can end up cooling back to room-temperature and spores start growing again. I wouldn't hold things in the danger zone if I were working in that environment. However, the fact is pathogens do not divide at 53°C. 57°C is the temperature that whole eggs are pasteurized. That means that the cells will be killed, but there will be spores left (you need to sterilize to kill spores).

All academic at this point, as based your (and others) feedback, I am going to do them a la minute. (having now practiced a good few times)

I can't use pasteurized eggs, because actually am planning to use duck eggs!


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

Tday01 said:


> Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions so far!!
> 
> @someday: I understand that this is defined as the danger zone. And I understand why this is so for a full on commercial kitchen where you need a margin of error, and things can end up cooling back to room-temperature and spores start growing again. I wouldn't hold things in the danger zone if I were working in that environment. However, the fact is pathogens do not divide at 53°C. 57°C is the temperature that whole eggs are pasteurized. That means that the cells will be killed, but there will be spores left (you need to sterilize to kill spores).


I'm not disagreeing with you ( I don't need a lesson in food safety, FYI), I just found it funny that the poster seemed to chastise you for holding eggs in the danger zone, then right after seemingly suggested doing the same exact thing... i.e. "don't hold your eggs at 127 because it is in the danger zone, instead hold them at 135 for 2 hours" Kind of the same thing...

Anyways, that's all I meant. And yes, cooking a la minute is probably the best way to go. Just be organized, have your MEP ready, and


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## capecodchef (Jan 19, 2014)

chefross said:


> Pooling eggs is cracking multiple eggs into one container. It doesn't matter that you take the steps to cool it down. The fact of the matter is that one contaminated egg can contaminate the rest. This is why pooling is a no-no. I don't know if this ruling is the same in every state.





cheflayne said:


> Some health agencies enforce a 30 minute time limit for pooling of eggs. I don't know what their stance would be if using pasteurized eggs, and in my experience, the field agent doing the enforcing would probably be flummoxed by the question.


In our area there is no prohibition of pooling of shelled eggs as long as they are stored at the appropriate temp. In fact, this practice is the norm rather than the exception.


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## capecodchef (Jan 19, 2014)

@someday:

I can't use pasteurized eggs, because actually am planning to use duck eggs![/QUOTE]

You could pasteurize duck eggs if you really wanted to with a sous vide circulator as cheap as the Anova.


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## Tday01 (Feb 4, 2018)

I'll just crack them, hold them at 57 (in the Anova), and then scramble them for service.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Honestly?

It will take you less time to scramble your eggs in a pan in 2 or3 batches than it will take you to vacuum pack and fish it in and out of the bath. The final product will be fluffier and creamier ( when you use cream) if you use the a pan, oh, and butter....

Like I said, sous vide has its place, but for scrambled eggs, it's not an ideal choice.


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

32 posts on Scrambled eggs and toast! I'm looking forward to the over easy eggs & English muffin thread.....


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## Tday01 (Feb 4, 2018)

foodpump said:


> Honestly?
> 
> It will take you less time to scramble your eggs in a pan in 2 or3 batches than it will take you to vacuum pack and fish it in and out of the bath. The final product will be fluffier and creamier ( when you use cream) if you use the a pan, oh, and butter....
> 
> Like I said, sous vide has its place, but for scrambled eggs, it's not an ideal choice.


Was planning to finish in a pan, using cream to finish (which did a great job when I practiced).
(53 or 57 won't cook anything).


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

Tday01 said:


> (53 or 57 won't cook anything).


OK, so why do it?


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## Tday01 (Feb 4, 2018)

A chef who does similar brunches (albeit with 45 covers) does it and told me it saves him time from the scrambling (which he needs for the other courses). Can't see any harm in it.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

....ok. I mean, you do you, and I'm sure they will turn out great. I've just never seen or heard of so much fuss being made about scrambling eggs. It's cooking 101. Not to say that there aren't finesse elements and technique to scrambling eggs, it's just...I dunno, shouldn't be this complicated. It's a layup, not a half court shot. 

Good luck though, I really hope it goes well. I'm sure it will. Let us know how it turns out!


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

Had the OP told us from the outset that he was using duck eggs, it would have saved a lot of space too.


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

I prefer poached eggs with English muffins. Over easy over light? What kind of eggs are we using?


chefbillyb said:


> 32 posts on Scrambled eggs and toast! I'm looking forward to the over easy eggs & English muffin thread.....


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

jimyra said:


> I prefer poached eggs with English muffins. Over easy over light? What kind of eggs are we using?


I'm happy we're getting to the Egg-Stravaganza part of the conversation. My love of poached eggs is saved for Corned beef hash. Using farm fresh eggs is a must. The yoke is like a dipping sauce. My feeling on English muffins is always wondering why we need different varieties. They have wheat, extra crispy, Sourdough and regular. I always thought if you like extra crispy you just kept it in the toaster longer. This video may help with making poached eggs for the home cook. Another egg dish you don't see around very much is Soft boiled eggs or 3 minute eggs. The last time I had one was in Italy and Greece. They always serve hard boiled eggs for breakfast. That gets old pretty quick, once I started asking for soft boiled eggs the whole dinning room took notice......


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## sgsvirgil (Mar 1, 2017)

Are you married to the truffle scrambled egg menu? 

How about a soft boiled truffle egg? You would not have to source any additional ingredients. They can be done in batches on both a stove top or in advance sous vide, depending on your time scheduling. On the stove, they are done in just minutes and can be done in batches and therefore, served all at once. They require no special appliances to prepare other than a heat source, a pot and water. It eliminates all the potential problems with egg pooling. You still get to marry the flavors of the egg with the truffle, if you want. Toast then becomes optional, although I would suggest toast points. Using toast points instead of whole slices just cut your bread requirements literally in half.

This way, you keep positive control of your situation in all respects, reduce your ingredient requirements, greatly simplify your logistics, retain the core flavors of your target menu (egg and truffle), and greatly reduced your risk of drawing the health inspector's attention.

Just a suggestion.  

Cheers!

Edit: I wrote and posted this before I went back and read Chefbillyb's comment about soft boiled eggs. You know that they say about great minds......lol.


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

This is a cool idea! Take a soft boiled egg and place it inside a savory muffin. It's from Craftsman and Wolaes in San Francisco. You cook the egg for 6 minutes so it's firm enough to peel then you make a batter and place the egg inside the batter and bake the muffin.......


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## sgsvirgil (Mar 1, 2017)

These are fun, too....(Scotch egg)


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## Tday01 (Feb 4, 2018)

Hello All,
We did our truffled duck menu last week, and it went great! Per the many suggestions we mixed the eggs an hour before service, and then just scrambled them in batches, with a glug of cream to stop them cooking (and make them even more rich).

For the record, we put 2 Himalayan and 1 winter black truffle in an air-tight container with 25 unshelled raw duck eggs and two chicken eggs for five days. (1 duck egg = 2 chicken eggs by weight, with a higher yolk to white ratio). The truffle aroma thoroughly infused into the egg.
As a test, we took out the chicken eggs at day 4 and mixed. We scrambled one immediately, and stored the other in a zip-lock overnight. The truffle flavor had significantly decreased after overnight storage. (which is why mixed the duck eggs just before service).
Another observation was that you really need to sniff each truffle before purchase, otherwise you might end up with an expensive ball of wood!
For the truffle shaving up-sell there were too many simultaneous covers to shave individually for each diner. I ended up shaving each portion into a ramekin just before scrambling the eggs and distributing those. The sight and smell of that led to 15 purchases.

Thanks again for all of the advice!


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