# Looking for knives for my wife's birthday



## vanillaxtract (Apr 18, 2016)

First off, this is more for my wife than me. I am a decent baker, but she is the wiz in the kitchen. She is pescatarian, and as a result, so am I when we are home. We buy our fish filleted, so that is not an issue. Looking at other threads, here are some common questions I have seen.

What country are you living in? America (Kansas)

Are you willing to buy from the Internet, or do you want to buy from a brick and mortar store (and if so, specifically where)? I am willing to buy from the Internet. I live in the middle of nowhere, so that is actually preferred.

What types of foods do you generally prepare and cook? Vegetables and fish

What knives are you currently using? Chicago Cutlery (with a Cutco knife). Yes, I read plenty on Cutco, which is how I found this forum.

Currently, what is the longest knife blade you generally use? 8" slicer

What type(s) of cutting surfaces do you currently use? Bamboo

Are you currently sharpening your own knives? No, but I'm willing to learn

Price range? I guess $300-$400 all said and done

Will you be buying other knives in the near future? Depends on how amazing this experience is.

How would you describe your cooking style? American? French? Not really sure what this means. We use a lot of fresh or frozen vegetables. We rarely used canned or process foods.

Do you have good knife skills? Do you pinch grip? Yes, my wife does.

Have you ever owned a good knife? I thought I did until I began skulking on these forums.

After doing my limited research, my budget I think will allow me three decent knives. As I don't know how my wife will respond to knives, I put the following together:

10" Henckels 4 star chef

12" Misono bread knife

MAC HB-40 parer (but I also read that buying cheap paring knives are okay, like Forschner)


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

I don't disagree with any of your choices if they will meet your wife's needs. The 10 inch Henkels is a brute. I have one and an 8 inch since the 1980s. The 8 inch is what I've found more useful for most household cooking. A 10 inch Shun, as an example, is a lot lighter and more agile but won't take apart a big squash quite like the Henkels will. 

As you know... Figure out your sharpening plan soon.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

I'd set aside $50-100 for a sharpening budget.

Bread knife - What's the crustiest bread you cut through? I have the Gesshin Bread Knife which handles soft breads and cakes really well. The hardest things I've used it on have been homemade sourdough and a storebought country French loaf, which it handles fairly well. $45 and it suits my current needs. Other options which are less pricey than the Misono you're looking at are the Tojiro ITK, MAC Superior Bread Knife (This one has a rep of being one of the best), and the Richmond Artifex Bread Knife

The bolster on that Henckles is going to get in the way of sharpening and be a hassle unless you've got a good belt grinder or other really coarse grinding option.
If you are open to considering thinner knives with harder steels, Gesshin Stainless, Gonbei AUS-10, Misono Moly or 440 are knives to look at (brain is blanking and I'll think of others later).

If you were thinking of a board upgrade, Amazon's got some Michigan Maple Block End Grain boards for under $100. I believe the 15x15in goes for under 60, and there's a 20x15in board that is under $100. Catskill also makes more cost affordable end grain boards. These will treat your knife edges better than bamboo will.

Paring - nothing wrong with going cheaper on them especially if they aren't frequently used.


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## vanillaxtract (Apr 18, 2016)

foody518 said:


> I'd set aside $50-100 for a sharpening budget.
> 
> Bread knife - What's the crustiest bread you cut through? I have the Gesshin Bread Knife which handles soft breads and cakes really well. The hardest things I've used it on have been homemade sourdough and a storebought country French loaf, which it handles fairly well. $45 and it suits my current needs. Other options which are less pricey than the Misono you're looking at are the Tojiro ITK, MAC Superior Bread Knife (This one has a rep of being one of the best), and the Richmond Artifex Bread Knife
> 
> ...


Bread: I just picked something. I didn't see a whole lot on bread knives. I would say French breads are the most crusty. She does cake decorating as well, so it will be used on the soft side quite a bit.

Chef: I am open to anything. I was trying to get a mix of different styles of knives so she can try them and see what she prefers. She is a small lady, so maybe a 10" Henckels will be too much knife. I also have no sharpening tools and even less experience. I will take a look at those other knives. Would it be best to stick to an 8" then?


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## vanillaxtract (Apr 18, 2016)

BrianShaw said:


> I don't disagree with any of your choices if they will meet your wife's needs. The 10 inch Henkels is a brute. I have one and an 8 inch since the 1980s. The 8 inch is what I've found more useful for most household cooking. A 10 inch Shun, as an example, is a lot lighter and more agile but won't take apart a big squash quite like the Henkels will.
> 
> As you know... Figure out your sharpening plan soon.


Would an 8" Henkel be okay then? Should I just scrap that all together and go with Japanese? Those are typically lighter and thinner, correct?


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

VanillaXtract said:


> Would an 8" Henkel be okay then? Should I just scrap that all together and go with Japanese? Those are typically lighter and thinner, correct?


You are asking a question that is very much a personal choice issue

I have a number of chef knives in both 8- and 10-inch... and in German, American carbon, and "Japanese" (Shun classic and Premier). I like the German because they can handle the heavy work without fear of chipping (etc) and, when sharp, can do some fine cutting. I like the American carbon steel because they are light, very affordable and can achieve a blazingly sharp edge... and they are durable in use. I like the "Japanese" because they are light, can achieve a blazingly sharp edge, and look pretty.

If I were to pick only one knife to spend the rest of my life with it would be the 8" Henckels 4-star... and my tri-hone stones. Would I miss the others - maybe, but...


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Most of those options that cost less than the Misono should work quite well for your intended usages then. Frees up a little more of the budget to use on the chefs / paring / sharpening.

If you've got some time, take a bit to look up and read about more knives. Is ease of cutting more valued than durability/robustness for occasional (or not so occasional) hard tasks?

As a small person myself I've had no problems with anything 8-10.5 inches (just a year ago I was using a 6.5 inch chef knife) but did find that for 8 inch knives, it felt like a knife trying to fit in a certain amount of curvature to a slightly too short overall length. It is taking less wrist/arm movement to avoid accordion cuts with a longer knife. I don't know if this is a minority opinion, but I feel like it's more about the curvature of the blade and how much there is, as well as how severe or gentle the curve is. It's clear that something like 5 ft 4 is not the ideal height to a standard kitchen counter plus 2 inch board, and a curvy knife profile will lead to discomfort from excess cocking of the arm at the shoulder or excess bending at the elbow and wrist.

There is good info on sharpening on this forum and others, as well as instructive Youtube videos from channels like Japanese Knife Imports.


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## vanillaxtract (Apr 18, 2016)

BrianShaw said:


> You are asking a question that is very much a personal choice issue
> 
> I have a number of chef knives in both 8- and 10-inch... and in German, American carbon, and "Japanese" (Shun classic and Premier). I like the German because they can handle the heavy work without fear of chipping (etc) and, when sharp, can do some fine cutting. I like the American carbon steel because they are light, very affordable and can achieve a blazingly sharp edge... and they are durable in use. I like the "Japanese" because they are light, can achieve a blazingly sharp edge, and look pretty.
> 
> If I were to pick only one knife to spend the rest of my life with it would be the 8" Henckels 4-star... and my tri-hone stones. Would I miss the others - maybe, but...


I am leaning towards the Henckel. Am I missing something with these two links?

Henckel 4 star 8" chef knife - $80

Henckel 4 star 3 pc set - $100 (includes 8" chef, 4" paring, and 5" serrated utility)

The set seems like a hell of a deal. $20 more and you get two additional knives.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Your not missing anything. If it's a Henkels 4Star that would want... The set is one heck of a bargain!


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Not that this should matter, but the 4-star may be new old stock. A while ago they updated that line as Four Star II, which has a different handle. Not sure if anything else changed but the original 4 star line is classic and long a pro favorite. That could be why the prices are so good. I remember paying through the nose for them in 1980 or so.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

You may get very little usage out of a 5inch serrated. Maybe a sandwich knife. It's more like $20 bucks for the paring.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

I was thinking similar, but rethought. Sandwiches and tomatoes and cheese. The set is still a bargain.


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## kartman35 (Jan 12, 2013)

How about this one?

http://www.cutleryandmore.com/henckels-professional-s/9-in-chefs-knife-cutting-board-set-p123456

Less knives, but it's bigger and you get a silly little cutting board too!


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## doctorcornbread (Mar 26, 2016)

Unless she has been spending 4-5 hours a day in prep work and has developed definite opinions on knives (and is a cranky person), give your wife these two knives and when she uses them, she will be thrilled:

Victorinox Chef's, 8" Blade, 2" At Blue Fibrox Pro Handle 

Victorinox Swiss Army 3-1/4-Inch Fibrox Straight Edge Paring Knife, Black 

They are both terrific line cook's knives, and functionally deliver 90% of the balance and ease of use as the top forged knives out there. They are stamped, with molded handles, and thus do not look as cool as some $300-400 European knife. But once she uses them, if she is a serious cook she will know that you gave her something meaningful.

The others you should get are a boning knife such as this one:

Victorinox 6-Inch Flex Boning Knife with Fibrox Handle

and a bread knife, like this:

Victorinox 47547 10-1/4-Inch Wavy Bread Knife, Black Fibrox Handle

No, I do not work for Victoinox, but I have each of these knives either in my home or in my urban apartment in another city, and I think they are just super. I also have several Henckels and other European knives and love them too. But each of them cost multiples of what I paid for these. They are no better, IMHO.

One other recommendation...buy her an Accusharp sharpener.

AccuSharp 001 Knife Sharpener

Some people poo-poo this, but a couple of swipes along your chef's knife or boning knife before starting to do your prep work will give it (and you) a terrific edge. A honing steel is great too, but the Accusharp is totally awesome - and, again, a total bargain.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

I don't think it takes that long to form strong preferences, even if they aren't 100% defined. For a shorter woman the excess curvature of a Fibrox coupled with standard counter heights plus a cutting board can make for excess wrist and elbow and shoulder angling just to utilize most of the knife length. A flatter profiled knife minimizes that. Additionally, cutting using a thinner vs thicker knife is almost instantaneous feedback that helps form preferences.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Not meaning to be impolite DC, but if you call the edge off an accusharp "terrific" then you are damn easy to please, or maybe just want to insure you never cut yourself.

Welcome to Cheftalk VX.

For the money you cannot beat a Tojiro DP, and I have seen the 9.5" going for as little as $60, their petty and bread knife are also a great bargain. German stainless simply doesn't compare, none of it, to these entry-level Japanese knives.


We can eventually get around to sharpening. That wouldn't include an accushat. A Vic can suffer such treatment, though it would scream in pain. But those would just destroy a DP, and most other decent knives.


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## doctorcornbread (Mar 26, 2016)

Well, I've long ago learned that where knives in the kitchen are concerned, everybody has an opinion.  And, it's based on their accidents of experience, personality and work style.

The Tojiros you cite are good knives by reputation and no doubt worth a look.  I've only heard of them and have never used one.  But sticking with a Vic Forstner is a low-risk decision, given its massive popularity, wide usage and quality. 

As to the Accusharp, it makes a fine edge for me, and its super-easy to use.  Wipe the knife clean, dry it and give it a few strokes with the Accusharp, and you are ready for another mound of prep vegetables.  Does a sharpening stone give a better edge?  Absolutely!  Are you likely to go to it every 2-3 hours while working?  No.  Hence my argument in favor of the Accusharp.  Your experience/mileage may vary...


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Why would you need to go to a stone every 2-3 hours? Especially considering the starter of this thread is referring to home usage. 2 weeks back I put my Tojiro through 3 straight hours of butterflying and cubing baked chicken breasts on a hard poly board and it barely did anything to the edge.
I wish I had some personal experience with it, but if that is the behavior to be expected out of a fibrox, I might think that the Tojiro is at least twice as good in some respects like edge retention, justifying the twice in price.


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## kartman35 (Jan 12, 2013)

DoctorCornbread said:


> Well, I've long ago learned that where knives in the kitchen are concerned, everybody has an opinion. And, it's based on their accidents of experience, personality and work style.
> 
> The Tojiros you cite are good knives by reputation and no doubt worth a look. I've only heard of them and have never used one. But sticking with a Vic Forstner is a low-risk decision, given its massive popularity, wide usage and quality.
> 
> As to the Accusharp, it makes a fine edge for me, and its super-easy to use. Wipe the knife clean, dry it and give it a few strokes with the Accusharp, and you are ready for another mound of prep vegetables. Does a sharpening stone give a better edge? Absolutely! Are you likely to go to it every 2-3 hours while working? No. Hence my argument in favor of the Accusharp. Your experience/mileage may vary...


A knife such as a Victorinox if sharpened on stones only needs to be maintained on a steel between sharpenings. Every 2-3 hours a few strokes on a steel is all you need and it removes no metal. If you're going to the accusharp (or any similar carbide sharpener) every 2-3 hours while working, you're removing metal MUCH more often than is necessary. Not only that, but this type of sharpener is very likely to ruin the profile of the knife (accordion cuts) over time. It's not a personal preference thing. The tool is not good. If you come here looking for advice on how to maintain your knives, we'll all help. If you come and post bad advice to others we're gonna point that out so people don't come away from Cheftalk Forums thinking that carbide sharpeners are the way to go because they're simply not.

Furthermore, while the Vic makes a great gift for any cooking student, most wives would prefer to adorn their kitchens with something prettier. Especially with the OPs stated budget, I think hes looking for something nicer. Kinda of like saying to someone looking to spend $60k on a car for his wife to get a Honda Civic....great reliable car, but not what he's looking for.


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## doctorcornbread (Mar 26, 2016)

Ok, Ok. Lest people think I had no basis for what I posted, I was actually introduced years ago to the Accusharp by an experienced line cook, who worked at a restaurant that was in the top ten in a major US metropolitan area.  He swore by it.  I've used it since then and my knives cut very well, thank you.  I've mentioned my use of it to other commercial cooks and serious foodies, and, with one exception, the worst reaction Ive ever gotten was a "meh" (one foodie was a knife fanatic and his comments were much like the above). So my post was not uninformed.

I will concede that those who are experts in knives are unlikely to like the Accusharp.  It is not designed to match the geometry of all knives.  It's like a camera with a zoom lens...it's a compromise for function.  None will ever be as sharp as one with a single focal length.  

But decide how you want to work.  Most serious cooks will want to focus on the cooking, not on the knives (which concededly are an important part of the prep process). It seems like there are way more posts on this site about knives than one would expect.


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## kartman35 (Jan 12, 2013)

The point is not whether it's as good as another method of sharpening or not....The device you are recommending causes DAMAGE and it causes damage faster than any other "sharpening" method out there.  There are other pull-through sharpeners out there (IE those round ceramic wheel types) that are not able to thin knives and are not nearly as useful as stones, but at least they don't cause nearly as much damage to blades as carbide.

If you want to keep using that thing that's fine, but to anyone else reading this consider yourself warned.

This is a forum dedicated to kitchen knives....what do you expect people to be talking about here?


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## doctorcornbread (Mar 26, 2016)

Under Food and Equipment Reviews on this site, there are 25,670 posts on knives, and only 19, 899 on ALL OTHER cooking equipment.  I rest my case…..


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

DoctorCornbread said:


> Under Food and Equipment Reviews on this site, there are 25,670 posts on knives, and only 19, 899 on ALL OTHER cooking equipment. I rest my case…..


Just goes to show you how important knives are to those who cook.

For touchups a ceramic steel or a packer's steel is far superior to an accusharp. And the "Cadillac" of touchup tools for a line cook using a Vic would be something like a DMT Extra-Extra fine diamond plate mounted to a fitting wood paddle.

BTW, for the kind of prep I very often do, and that of many chefs, especially of the Japanese variety, a Vic or any other knife coming off an accusharp would produce nothing but a mess.

Oh but goodness but it seems we are forgetting the OP in all of this. Hope he got something useful out of it all.


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## Master-chef (Oct 8, 2015)

The Misono UX10 Gyutou at 176$ : 
Korin Suisin Gyutou at 110$ : 
Mac Chef's Knife at 60$ : 
Reference:http://www.seriouseats.com/2013/12/equipment-the-best-chefs-knives-gift-guide.html


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## Master-chef (Oct 8, 2015)

For knives, I recommend these:

those 3 turn to be hybrid between german and japanese

MAC MTH-80 at 145$ : http://www.macknife.com/kitchen/pro...ies-8q-chefs-knife-with-dimples.html?vmcchk=1

Misono UX10 Gyutou at 176$ :Korin Suisin Gyutou


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

DoctorCornbread said:


> Under Food and Equipment Reviews on this site, there are 25,670 posts on knives, and only 19, 899 on ALL OTHER cooking equipment. I rest my case…..


Isn't this just telling the story about how knives could be considered the tool most frequently unable to do what they need to vs other tools (e.g. bakeware, pots, pans, spatulas, spoons, etc.) in the most (particularly, home) kitchens? If you look at the content of these threads and the questions being asked and how much misinformation is in some of the opening posts, especially some of the older stuff, it becomes evident how this much discussion comes out of these threads. And somehow there's been a marketing or cultural shift to think proper maintenance of knives is some archaic practice vs a not that hard skill to pick up.

There are other forums dedicated to kitchen knives as well with plenty of members who cook for a living...


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## mjk14 (May 4, 2016)

Yes!


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## doctorcornbread (Mar 26, 2016)

Final word on the AccuSharp (at least from me). Note the conclusion of Cooks Illustrated, an organization with more than a little expertise, about it....





  








Screen Shot 2016-05-13 at 1.59.34 PM.png




__
doctorcornbread


__
May 13, 2016


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

DoctorCornbread said:


> Final word on the AccuSharp (at least from me).


Praise the Lord.

I wonder if I am the only one here who would never look to cooks illustrated for anything knife related.


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## kartman35 (Jan 12, 2013)

I might have in the past, but given this new information, their credibility just went out the window.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

I don't know what lowest common denominator that kind of recommendation is appealing to, but it doesn't say good things about consumers, does it...


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## kartman35 (Jan 12, 2013)

Here's a little example of their 'expertise' in the Japanese Gyuto

.




Note their explanation of where the gyutos flatter profile comes from...

It's cool that they liked the Masamoto, (which might be a great choice for the OP if his wife likes lightweight, flattish knives absent of fingerguards with western handles) but it's not called VG10, nor is it made from VG10. It's called Masamoto VG, and the actual steel is more likely VG-5 from what I've read (None of the vendors list the steel type other than to say Hyper Molybdenum Vanadium.

Whatever


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

I'm not their target audience at all.  I just hate everything Cooks Illustrated / ATK.   All their recipes are either simple, best, or ultimate (not really).  Their grasp on any of the Asian cuisines is laughable.  

Their average customer I guess likes to watch Alton Brown, but wants to cook with the pantry from a Guy Fieri show.

Don't get me started on Christopher Kimball's vermont country boy shtick.  He lives in a large suburb city of Boston (brookline or newton i forget)


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## grande (May 14, 2014)

I like to get CI. The recipes are waaayyy overcomplicated, but I like to read the fussy trial-and-error parts(better you than me, buddy!), and the equipment comparisons. Sometimes I see a recipe I want to make, but I just do it my way anyway. As for the accusharp, that's the kind of thing I'd buy for the boys to use on the house knives- it better not touch my knives.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Even house knives might enjoy some oilstone or waterstone TLC :3 well I guess that depends on how many we are talking about.


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## grande (May 14, 2014)

The Nella knives from the sharpening service; they get swapped out every two weeks anyway. I can't stand em.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Ahhh...sorry to hear. Do they at least start out sharp at the beginning of the 2 weeks?

I'll sharpen however many knives I can get through in a few hours at the community kitchen, and I've had some pretty good luck sharpening NSF type stainless knives with waterstones. Yay for not too thick blades and no fingerguards. 
Do the brunt of the repair and bevel setting on 220 and 500 grit, finalize the bevel on 1200, with some light strokes on a splash and go 3k I have just because, but also it helps with stubborn burrs and silly amounts of fatigued metal that accumulate along the edge. 
They'll get surprisingly sharp and hold it so-so for the abuse they immediately take. Better than what was being used on them before (either a chefs choice electric or a small tabletop belt grinder, or both). I wish I had some more aggressive stuff to attempt correcting all those reverse bellies though...flat stone struggles


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## mike9 (Jul 13, 2012)

Get a new cutting board as well bamboo is death to knife edges. You can get a very nice end grain maple board for less than $100.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/prod..._campaign=CI&gclid=CIKajvek58wCFZdZhgodW08AsA


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