# struggling with picking a new chef knife



## thumper1279 (Jan 24, 2013)

Ok so i am hoping that some of you can help me decide

i have been trying to save up some money since Jan to be able to buy a good chef knife but being in school and spending most my money on gas to and from school and also being out of work the last month and half because i had some medical issues

i am down to doing what i didn't want to do

i wanted to purchase a Shun 8 inch chef nice and use cash

but i just can't afford it so i am down to either using my Shop NBC credit card My Dillars Store card or my Finger hut account

i wanted to avoid these cars and stores because the intrest is higher then normal but right now i just am tired of waiting and going to get one but non of these places have Shun knives

what they do have i will post a few links of and i hope that you can tell me which ones of the ones i like would be good

also some are brands that perhaps are made by good brans just offset with a private name perhaps

and some i see are like made in china but with german steel so that kind of thorws me off would that be worst than buying one that was actualy made in germany ?

http://www.fingerhut.com/product/Ki...17-Piece-Block-Set/pc/25281/c/25405/NJ540.uts

with the J-A Heckels everedge i have heard or i thought i read somewhere that the everedge blade wasn';t good or left cuts going in one direction had trouble with actual cuts and stuff anyone know if this is true ?

or maybe that was the eversharp edge

http://www.fingerhut.com/product/Ki...13-Piece-Block-Set/pc/25281/c/25405/NJ542.uts

http://www.shopnbc.com/Top_Chef_trade_Stainless_Steel_Knife_Set_15_Pieces/422-644.aspx?storeid=1&cm_re=SearchList-_-N-_-N&prop=Home%20%26%20Collectibles|243&prop=Kitchen|250&prop=Cutlery%20%26%20Cutting%20Boards|2199

http://www.dillards.com/product/Cal...Cutlery-Set_301_-1_301_501310138?df=hjb007_zi

http://www.dillards.com/product/Wus...ef´s-Knife-Set_301_-1_301_703937?df=hw-208_zi

can you give me opinions on these please

thank you


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## greenguy (Apr 12, 2010)

Personally, I would stay away from most of those, especially the Henckels everedge/eversharp.  Also, you probably don't need a set, as most of those knives are unnecessary and redundant.  Of the ones you listed, the only decent option is the Wusthof, which are okay at best.  Wusthofs are pretty standard German knives, not horrible, but not great, and pretty pricey.  Also, I wouldn't want to go into debt and pay interest just for a couple knives.  What are you using now?  It's probably better than most of those.

If you really, really need to get a knife and are on a tight budget, go with Forschner.  I don't think that a chef's knife runs more than $40, plus you can get a paring knife for a couple bucks and they're as good as anything else.  Also, you'll need some sort of sharpening equipment, or what ever knife you buy will be useless after a month or so.  As far as stones go, the cheapest thing you can probably get would be to go to a hardware store and pick up a norton combo stone for maybe $10.  Definitely not the best option, but it will work.


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## thumper1279 (Jan 24, 2013)

the only reason i was even looking at those set's was because  Dillard doesn't have single knifes atleast not many choices and i remember that i used a wustof Gourmet model once and i didn't like it they have those in singles in the store 

i wanted to get somethiing i could use tomorrow 

so i was thinking also about a Calphalon Set i read some reviews and they where good 

but the main point in posting some of the set's is yeah i won't use all the knifes in them some might think its a waste of money 

but i could give the block with the rest of the knifes to my mom who would use them or even cell them unused on ebay and try and make some of my money back perhaps 

does anyone have any familiarirty with Calphalon Knifes ? 

so far out of all the ones the Dillards sells and has in there stores i have read some reviews on Amazon and people seem to like them 

also there is a knife company called Scmits brothers i think thats how its spelled not sure 

they have a 8 in chef knife that  has a teak wood handle that looks really nice inexspensive like 50 dollars for the single chef knife


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

With the exception of Wusthof, all of the knives you listed in your first post are complete crap.  They will not take a good edge under any circumstances.  They can take a usable but very toothy edge, but won't hold it for long, and the edge can only be applied with the sort of extremely aggressive sharpener which eats knives quickly.      

Wusthof makes good knives, which you may or may not like.   On the one hand, they are extremely rugged, durable, well made, and well finished; on the other, they are heavy, clumsy, and soft enough to ding out of true easily.  Some people like that type of knife a great deal, some people don't.  Neither viewpoint is right or wrong, they're just different.

I've never used a Schmidt, but have done a little research since first reading about them.  They bear the hallmarks of over-priced sub-mediocrity, more expensive but no better than a Mercer.  I wouldn't buy one at all, much less go into debt. 

In your shoes, I'd tough it out until I could afford something actually desired.  I understand that you really want a new knife NOW but don't have many options, and am sorry I can't be more hopeful or helpful.  Whenever and whatever you do buy, bear in mind that any knife you can't sharpen is worth exactly nothing; and the same is true for any knife you won't sharpen.

BDL


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## thumper1279 (Jan 24, 2013)

ok thank you for the words of wisdom they did help me 

i am going to get the Wustoff Classic  i actualy went into william sanoma today just to get a feel of it and see how i like it the 8 inch chef knife for the classic  wustoff  actualy felt nice and was ballanced nicley  

with the fathers day prices they had its 99.99  and then 20% off i know i could probably find it cheap elswhere like online perhaps but i decided that ill get this and just go to a few movies less this month and also do out with friends a few evenings less this month so that i can pay without going into debt for something that i will keep for along time 

i just hope that this will last a good several years 

here is my plan i want to go back to school after i finish my associates in culinary art's because i want to get my Bachelors degree and also a diploma in Bakeing and pastry aswell 

so i need something good that is going to last me atleast 4 years i am hoping the wustoff will last me some time 

i looked at some more of the shun's when i was at the store today and i realize they all looked awesome and felt nice but the ones i saw didn't have any bolsters and i need a bolster on my knife to be able to feel comfortable 

not sure if this makes sence does it to anyone ?


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

I'd be willing to guess that whatever culinary school you got to, and whatever place gives you a job, will have knives that you can use for free. Brand new, razor/laser sharp, $600 knives of any possible brand you can think of just ain'te gonna make your skills any different. Whatever dish you put out ain'te gonna taste any different either. You may just feel pretty cool wielding one of them, but there aren't any livings being made in any kitchens by any rookies feeling cool. Save your $$$ now. Wait until you're out of school with a real job. 

_***_ _I apologize for not reading until now, what *BDL* said. I agree with him. _


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## thumper1279 (Jan 24, 2013)

IceMan said:


> I'd be willing to guess that whatever culinary school you got to, and whatever place gives you a job, will have knives that you can use for free. Brand new, razor/laser sharp, $600 knives of any possible brand you can think of just ain'te gonna make your skills any different. Whatever dish you put out ain'te gonna taste any different either. You may just feel pretty cool wielding one of them, but there aren't any livings being made in any kitchens by any rookies feeling cool. Save your $$$ now. Wait until you're out of school with a real job.


 my school gives crappy mercer knives in the last 4 and half months i have had to use my steel on average of 1 to 2 times a week already had to sharpen it twice

i am in the kitchen at school about 40% more than anyone els

i am there when the time permits even when im not scheduled to be there i show up to put in and pay my dues because i want to be great im doing what i need to

i have seen 4 students who crappy mercer blades have broken and not from dropping it on the floor each time twice was from dropping it the other 2 just snapped and broke whyll they where using it

most students may not have to sharpen there blades offten or worry about a great knife

because they are in the kitchen like 3 hours a day sometimes 4 and only 20 minutes of that is actualy used using there knife

i am down pack give me a good knife i can give you any cut you want in the books and probably any that are not in the books lol

i wear my stuff out and i don't want to wear it out i want it to last i want something that is going to last

so weather i get a job that has great exspensive knifes or not

i still spend an hour a day at home cutting and dicing and slicing and 2 hours on average every Monday - Friday working with my Knives

and 4 to 6 hours on other things

so im not like your ordinary student

i am set with a goal and my goal is weather it be in 10 years 20 years 50 years from now or how ever long it takes im going to be a Credited Master chef

i don't want to be on TV i just want to know that i have made it to the top

i want to be a teacher i want to help others learn

i want to build

the handle really doesn't even matter to me mine have tape on them

they give me a knife with black handles i tape them up so no one can tell anyting is diffetn about my knife unless they pick it up or are close enought to see some design on the blade

i just know that it needs to be cofertible for me if im going to be holding it and using it and moveing around with it for hours a day


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

*WOW*. I only went to the _CIA_, and had to use their regular ordinary knives. I was never good enough to wear any of them out. I now only work in regular ordinary kitchens either using _"house knives"_ or my own personal _Victorinox Forschner_ or _Chicago Cutlery_ knives _(which could be replaced for <$20 each)_. My goodness. How do i get along. 

I'll tell you again, as simple as I can. Save your money. You can't buy skills. When you get out of school, and you get a real job in a real kitchen ... buy whatever floats your boat and makes you happy. You'll thank me when you realize the realities of the profession we have chosen. Experience does those kinda things. 

_Here's what I would buy in your position:_

*NSF Commercial Chef's Knife $10*

*NSF Commercial Hollow Edge Santoku Knife $8*

_If you want more, name brand, all in a nice kit: _

*Victorinox Forschner Fibrox Culinary Knife Roll Set $140*

*Victorinox Forschner Fibrox Deluxe Knife Roll Set $130 *


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## thumper1279 (Jan 24, 2013)

IceMan said:


> *WOW*. I only went to the _CIA_, and had to use their regular ordinary knives. I was never good enough to wear any of them out. I now only work in regular ordinary kitchens either using _"house knives"_ or my own personal _Victorinox Forschner_ or _Chicago Cutlery_ knives _(which could be replaced for <$20 each)_. My goodness. How do i get along.
> 
> I'll tell you again, as simple as I can. Save your money. You can't buy skills. When you get out of school, and you get a real job in a real kitchen ... buy whatever floats your boat and makes you happy. You'll thank me when you realize the realities of the profession we have chosen. Experience does those kinda things.
> 
> ...


great im happy you went to CIA and you have your skills and you are who you are

i am not looking for a fancy knife to try and buy a better skill lol

i can do what i can do with a knife I'm great with it so far if any of the instructors wanted they know they could pick me out give me a cut to do and ill get it to perfect size with my Mercer knife i have a 7 inch santuko and i have my 8 inch chef knife and my 10 inch chef knife that i use all the time

i am just asking for opinions on a new knife

you came in her and gave your opinion on why not to buy a expensive non budget knife i was not looking for that

but thank you i appreciated it allot

but again i am going to purchase a knife that will last me more than a week before i have to worry about the dam blade getting dull

the more i use the steel the sooner I'm going to have to buy a new knife anyways cause how long really does it take before you get so much steel off the blade until there is not much to work with

so id rather spend more money upfront on something that will last then spend a little money on something that won't and then have to do the same in 6 months a year

why spend 30 dollars every year for 4 years when i could spend 100 upfront and not have to be out shopping every 9 to 12 months

?

OK this seems like its getting into a verbal war and that's not what i want

like i said i appreciate your suggestion even thought it was not what i was here for

thank you


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

Good luck kid.   Be ready when the real world treats you a lot harder than a bulletin board.


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## thumper1279 (Jan 24, 2013)

no it's cool i can take it just didn't ask for the advice you gave so i was a bit upset but not at the same time 

im just saying 

i may be Dollar smart but i ain't penny cheap for a reason 

if your penny cheap and always say go with the cheap thats why you always have to go with the cheap if you dollar smart and go with something a bit more but known to be better and last longer 

thats less time and trouble spent having to replace it again


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Thumper1279 said:


> ...but again i am going to purchase a knife that will last me more than a week before i have to worry about the dam blade getting dull


You might want to reexamine your basic premises concerning knives. In my experience, outside of home use, knives need touching up far more often than once a week, for me, and I have, what I consider, some middle-upper knives and I tough them up daily if not twice or three times a day.


> the more i use the steel the sooner I'm going to have to buy a new knife anyways cause how long really does it take before you get so much steel off the blade until there is not much to work with


If you are removing metal with a steel, I have serious reservations as to how you are doing that. A steel should be used to do nothing more than realign the edge. Removing metal should be done with some type of sharpening, water stones, oil stones, or for some, an electric sharpener or "gig".


> so id rather spend more money upfront on something that will last then spend a little money on something that won't and then have to do the same in 6 months a year


Perhaps you need to spend a little time doing some research and learning how to care for your knives. From what you've expressed, spending a little more money will not achieve the objectives that you think it will. Again, steeling will NOT wear out a knife, oh wait, what kind of "steel"? One of those _diamond_ type? If so, you really do need to learn a lot more about knife maintenance.

If you can't keep a cheap knife sharp without wearing it out, buying a more expensive knife is simply throwing your money away, IMHO.


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## thumper1279 (Jan 24, 2013)

ok well i guess the videos i have seen on how to use a steal and how it's not meant to sharpen it's just meant to hone the blade

must have been wrong because i was doing what i saw in them but guess that was wrong

regardless i appreciate the insite iceman was giving me on just stick with cheap stuff but that was all it sonded like it didnt seem like he was makeing any point to cheap stuff better then not so cheap knives

i have alredy decided im just going to keep the mercer and in a few months ill be able to afford something a little nicer that is going to last a long time

and ill probably be affraid to come back in for advice because of the way this thread went yikes 


PeteMcCracken said:


> You might want to reexamine your basic premises concerning knives. In my experience, outside of home use, knives need touching up far more often than once a week, for me, and I have, what I consider, some middle-upper knives and I tough them up daily if not twice or three times a day.
> 
> If you are removing metal with a steel, I have serious reservations as to how you are doing that. A steel should be used to do nothing more than realign the edge. Removing metal should be done with some type of sharpening, water stones, oil stones, or for some, an electric sharpener or "gig".
> 
> ...


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## thumper1279 (Jan 24, 2013)

maybe instead of advising not to buy a good knife it might be good for you to advice me to a good link or the proper way to hone and sharpen so perhaps i don't screw up 

so perhaps can someone get me a proper link to show me the proper way to hone my blade and sharpen it also this way i don't have to come in and wast space with a new thread asking this


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

When I decided to move from cheap stamped stainless blades the first thing I got was a Shun "Ken Onion" steak knife I paid $100 for - a real mistake

Next was a Wusthof  Ikon 9" slicer because I thought $80 was a fantastic deal, wrong again really, but at least it is a step-up from the css knives, definitely holds an edge better.

Since I have reprofiled several cheap knives from a 9.5" chefs to a 4.5" pairing knife, just to get a feel for things.  Some I have made very thin at the edge, all get sharp enough to whittle hair, even if they do require regular touching up and more frequent sharpening.

It's going to be a while before I pull the trigger on some really good knives, I'm in no hurry cause what I have works and I want to be sure about what I really want. 

Knowing what these cheap knives can do, in your shoes I'd just use the Mercers, or buy some Forscheners, and be happy in that you can make them work, and I gather many pro chefs do.

On another note consider that you don't have to beat up a knife and cutting board just to dice an onion.  Great knives don't like abuse any more than cheap ones, particularly those of thin and hard steeL, and fine control of force is another important skill.

Rick


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## greenguy (Apr 12, 2010)

I think it is a wise choice to stick with the Mercers for now, and learn proper care and maintenance before spending a lot of money of a new knife. Mercers are not the greatest knives, but they are just fine to learn on, and are great to practice sharpening on. FWIW, when I started cooking I just used house knives for a while. They were pretty awful and rarely got sharpened, but they worked until I eventually got my own. I started with a cheap 8" Henckels International, which was not much better than the house knives partly due to me not having a clue how to sharpen. I asked people at work and did a lot of research on my own, and eventually I learned how to sharpen and gradually acquired better equipment. Like I said before, it does not matter what knife you buy or how much you spend, any knife will dull and will be useless unless sharpened regularly. Several of my main knives are $100+ and are some of the best around. I still use a steel at least once or twice a day and sharpen my most used knives once a week, sometimes twice. When used and maintained properly, it should take much more than one year to "wear out."

Before buying a new knife, I would recommend investing in some good sharpening equipment. Maybe a two sided stone like a King 1000/6000 and a stone fixer to start.

http://www.cookfoodgood.com/?p=551

This is a very good article on how to properly steel, written by our very own BDL. As for sharpening, check out some videos on youtube and search the forums here, I'm pretty sure people have posted links to some reputable videos. Sharpening takes a lot of time and practice to get right, but it's a skill no cook should be without.


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## mostadonte2 (Jun 11, 2013)

I think you should take a small loan and buy hand made Japanese gyuto for at least $250 dollars. Come back in 2-3 months and post your thoughts.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

You're missing some very important information. If you're at all critical about sharpness, you'll "steel" a Wusthof hourly, not weekly, and sharpen _at least_ twice a week.

The first question you have to ask when thinking about buying a tool, is "Compared to what?" The nice thing about a Wustie as opposed to a bottom-line Mercer is that at least the Wustie will take a decent (but not great) edge. The big problem with stamped Mercers is that they won't take a fine edge. Coarse edges don't last quite as long as fine edges, but otherwise Wusthof and Mercers dull from wear at about the same rate.

Mercers do require a little more steeling than Wusties, but since you'll be steeling both of them constantly -- so what?

The good news about knives like Mercers is that since it doesn't make much sense to sharpen them on stones when you can get the same or better results using an inexpensive carbide sharpener like an AccuSharp, you can use an AccuSharp ($10); and even though it will eat your Mercer to nothing in about a year -- so what?

For the little it's worth, a "Forschner by Victorinox" (or whatever the heck we're calling 'em these days) Fibrox will take and hold an edge as well as a Wusthof Classic and for less than a third the dough.

The rational advice is to buy an AccuSharp and keep using the Mercers until you have the money to buy something worth the money.

BDL


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

boar_d_laze said:


> You're missing some very important information. If you're at all critical about sharpness, you'll "steel" a Wusthof hourly, not weekly, and sharpen _at least_ twice a week.
> ...For the little it's worth, a "Forschner by Victorinox" (or whatever the heck we're calling 'em these days) Fibrox will take and hold an edge as well as a Wusthof Classic and for less than a third the dough. ...BDL


I sure like my Forschners and see no reason to get a substitute. But I only use their line of boning knives with the plastique handle. Less maintenance with plastique!


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Victorinox calls its plastic handles, _Fibrox_. So, in terms of "Forschner by Victorinox" Fibrox and plastic handles are one and the same. The Rosewood handle series are the same knives, but with different handles and accordingly more expensive.

In the English language, _plastic_ and _plastique_ are two different things. Let's hope your handles aren't _plastique_.

BDL


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

boar_d_laze said:


> ...
> In the English language, _plastic_ and _plastique_ are two different things. Let's hope your handles aren't _plastique_.
> 
> BDL


post deleted.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Sarqasm doesn't always translate on the internette.

BDL


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

BOOM.


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## chefboy2160 (Oct 13, 2001)

My opinion is bottom line use the pull through sharpener on your mercers as suggested by BDL and if you want to learn how to maintain future knives get the Forschners as suggested. A paring,Chefs 10" and a bread (or z serrated) with a steel will set you back  about 100 bucks ( I suggest looking for a steel in a thrift store) A sharpening kit for freehand with stones another 100 and you are good to go and do the most important thing a chef should know is how to maintain there tools. When you learn these skills with these knives then you are pretty good to go on whatever your heart desires and go down the rabbit hole. Stay sharp......................


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

I sincerely hope no one is loaning $$$ and paying interest on a knife.  I'd ditch the Mercers toot sweet if possible with out going in debt. I don't agree at all with the notion that buying better knives won't improve your skills. There's a learning curve for every one and that curve is much steeper with dull knives. I'd suggest looking for some used Wusthof/Henkels or other German knives. You can find them pretty darn cheap second hand. Watch some videos or try to loan DVD's from a classmate on sharpening. A pull through isn't going to help you learn a darn thing and bad habits are hard to

"un-learn" if you develop them working with poor tools.

Rich, Pete and the others are correct. You will still need to steel a few times a day if you are working a full shift and you will still need to put your knives on the stones once a week at least. Don't get discouraged because even J-Knives that cost a lot more are going to need to visit the stones weekly with a little stropping or touch up in between. That's normal.

If you don't want to shop used knives then go with Victorinox. They are inexpensive and better than what you have.

Dave


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## mkarbc (Jun 19, 2013)

Several years ago I received a set of Henckel "Eversharp" knives as a gift.  I have always regretted not returning them and upgrading them to something else.  They are junk;  stay away from them.  They have a very fine saw-tooth edge, and you feel like you saw your food instead of cutting/slicing it.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Sharpening is really something you should invest in RIGHT NOW Thump, and I really don't think BDL was completely serious about the Accusharp.

The Iminishi was by consensus here the best value combi-stone:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/nsearch.html?vwcatalog=chefknivestogo&query=combination+stones

and for $30 you could pair that with the Idahone "fine" ceramic steel, with shipping you're right about at $100.

I use a fine hard arkansas stone for truing which works about the same, that is to say WONDERFULL!

You don't want some rough piece of crepe steel you find at a thrift shop or even regular dept-store, or for that matter much of what you typically find at cutlery places either.

There are plenty of posts on sharpening, flattening stones, steeling, etc., but one quick pointer that's a great help:

1) 18deg is probably a good edge for what you need, a compromise between sharpness and durability, with a protractor to measure cut a wedge from a piece of poster-board and harden it with some cheap superglue, now you have something you can lay your knife right on to see what 18deg looks like on the stone, or your steel ftm.

Rick


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## knifesavers (Oct 5, 2011)

GreenGuy said:


> I think it is a wise choice to stick with the Mercers for now, and learn proper care and maintenance before spending a lot of money of a new knife. *Mercers are not the greatest knives, but they are just fine to learn on, and are great to practice sharpening on.* FWIW, when I started cooking I just used house knives for a while. They were pretty awful and rarely got sharpened, but they worked until I eventually got my own. I started with a cheap 8" Henckels International, which was not much better than the house knives partly due to me not having a clue how to sharpen. I asked people at work and did a lot of research on my own, and eventually I learned how to sharpen and gradually acquired better equipment. Like I said before, *it does not matter what knife you buy or how much you spend, any knife will dull and will be useless unless sharpened regularly.* Several of my main knives are $100+ and are some of the best around. I still use a steel at least once or twice a day and sharpen my most used knives once a week, sometimes twice. When used and maintained properly, it should take much more than one year to "wear out."
> 
> Before buying a new knife, I would recommend investing in some good sharpening equipment. Maybe a two sided stone like a King 1000/6000 and a stone fixer to start.
> 
> ...


Glad GreenGuy typed all this up. I bolded the most important things to bear in mind.

Mercers, in the grand scheme of sharpening, are pretty easy to resharpen. The fundamentals of drawing, chasing and removing a burr are going to vary a little with better blades but not much. Mercers, Dexter, and Victorinox are all inexpensive and are about the best for learning these basics with. Once you can maintain any of these on inexpensive oilstones or more expensive waterstones you are ready to move on to better blades.

There are many videos on sharpening but watch the ones from Jon at Japanese Knife Imports and the ones from Dave at CKTG.

Keep a steel handy and use it when you notice a degredation in the cutting.

Jim


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

I don't think you are going to find a lot of videos by Dave on CK2G but the thought is amusing. The Vids by Jon on JKI/Youtube are excellent and if the Murray Carter vids are still on boobtube look for those as well. Be careful looking at others as there's a lot of people postings vids that will teach you more bad habits than good.


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## vic cardenas (Nov 11, 2012)

It's Mark Richmond at CKTG. Not Dave.

+1 on Jon at JKI having great sharpening vids.

Sharpening is fundamental before trying to buy a better knife to make up for a cheaper knife's shortcomings. If you don't know that steeling doesn't remove material (or ideally, not much) then I'd assume your sharpening and honing skills are lacking to say the least. A better knife than a Victorinox is probably overreaching for you, OP.   My GM loves my Takayuki GC so much that she wants one for christmas now. I cringe at the thought because I know she doesn't know a thing about maintaining an edge. She just uses mundial knives and sharpens them with a pull-through. I guess I have to teach her a few things before christmas comes around.    

What about Tojiro's, or Fujiwaras? Surprised no one mentioned those yet. 

I just bought an ITK shirogami to try my first carbon knife. It was hella cheap, but I hear it takes a fantastic edge. I only tried a Tojiro once (my buddy's Sha Ra Ku Mono) but they're great knives for the price.

Same goes for the Fujiwara, and I think the world of my humble little 270mm sujihiki.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

_Mark Richmond's_ videos on CKtG are very good. If you're going to try to learn sharpening from internet retailers' free videos it's worth looking at both Mark's and Jon's. They share an essentially similar approach.

For whatever reason, I find myself getting Mark's name wrong and referring to him as Dave.

BDL


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## thumper1279 (Jan 24, 2013)

over the weekend i was at a Dillards store i ended up picking up for 19.99   a snife sharpener  it has 2 stages on it and it's a whustof branded says that it's good enought and rated for all there knife blades  and it has a regular grade and also a course grade i tried it out and it seemed to work good


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## thumper1279 (Jan 24, 2013)

i also did watch some more and reasearhc more on sharpening and i think i am a bit more informed now thanks to you all 

i think if i ever do purchase a  exspensive higher quality brand knife i will only do so as a gift to myself for making honor roll again if im lucky enought i think to set things like that not to have to just use because i want it but to have and get myself as a reward is better than just buying one to have it and think it will be better then what i already have 

if that makes sence ?


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## galley swiller (May 29, 2013)

In following this thread, what first struck me was Thumper1279"s choice of retailers: ShopNBC.com, Dillard's and Fingerhut.  Each of them was limited selection and, most important, likely an "easy credit" web (ShopNBC.com or Fingerhut) or local to Florida (Dillard's).  And then, of course, Thumper's status as a student (not to mention being recently out of work) would suggest that such retailers were within Thumper's accessibility.

Of course, that does make a certain amount of sense.  Since the beginning of time, almost all students have been impoverished - and "easy credit" has been almost all they have been able to find.

(Thumper, if I'm off on my guess that you're an impoverished student, then my apologies in advance.  But I also hope that you will realize that this forum is as much a general community bulletin board, which is used to communicate not only with the directed original poster, but also with the overall audience.)

But what it also means, in this increasingly wired world, is that, unless you have good and established credit, access to such retailers as Amazon can be tantalizingly visible but (economic status) out of range.  Hence, "easy credit" sites with limited choice, relatively higher prices than the lowest price leaders and higher interest rates.

That means that alternatives need to be located - often, if not always, local brick and mortar retailers that will accept cash.

Thumper, I commend you about your choice to stay with the Mercer knives - even if they are (choose and insert your own favorite expletive here).  I also commend your choice of first purchase being a sharpener.

Now, for my recommendations, I'm going to assume that you either will go with "easy credit" internet retailers, or you will have to buy on a cash and carry basis from local (to you) brick and mortar stores.  From the choice above, I would suggest going "brick and mortar" only.  If you can access the Internet, such as Amazon, that would be great.  But, I'm going to proceed here as if you can only look and not buy through the web.

Here, the Internet can be your friend - even if you cannot purchase through the internet.  What it can do is help you find local brick and mortar retailers who have what you seek.  They may not be as low priced as big internet operators, such as Amazon, but they will accept cash.

First, I'm going to assume that you have access to a steel.  That will minimize the number of times you need to use the sharpener. 

Second, your sharpener will work for a while - but likely will soon slow down.  It will also chew up your knives, to a degree, level and extent that better (meaning sharpening stones) will not.  And the quick fix here will be getting and learning how to freehand use a good or reasonable quality set of sharpening stones.

Besides the learning curve, the major problem will be finding a local retailer who will have stones in stock, or who can order one for you.  Quality sharpening stones are (to a very large degree) one of those specialty items which are secondary to ordinary sales of knives.  Most search engines will not list retailers who stock them - with the noted exception of Internet retailers.  Great (sarcastically).  Just what I WASN'T looking for.  So, in my search, I got slightly creative and went searching for woodworking tools.  I also stretched out the search to encompassing not just the Boca Raton area, or Miami or Ft. Lauderdale - I went whole hog and looked at all of Florida.  I then mentally scanned the Google results, eliminating Jacksonville and Tampa, but had a Bingo with one of my first hits.

Constantine's Wood Center of Florida, in Ft. Lauderdale, has an 8 inch by 2 inch India Combination Stone for $20 (Constantine's also carries various grit water stones and an Arkansas natural combination stone,)

You don't HAVE to go to Constantine's - I just grabbed the first name on my  Google search which looked potentially workable as a brick and mortar retailer.  Then I went to the web site, and started a by guess and by golly search, until I either found what I was looking for, or exhausted the web site in confirming that what I would be seeking would not be there.  No magic trick here - just guesses and work through a process of elimination.  If you find a better retailer, either closer to you, or less expensive, or a better product, that's fine.  My purpose here is to show that someone reasonably close to you can be found.

My next recommendation is that you go to a local thrift stone, find an appropriate knife or two for as little money as possible, and work at developing freehand sharpening skills.  Other people have given plenty of advice about how to sharpen.  I am concentrating on how to keep your budget at a minimum.  Once you are confident in your freehand sharpening skills with stones, you can switch from the Wusthof sharpener to the stones.

Next, eventually the stones will wear and will need leveling.  Plenty of advice from others on this web site and other sites on how to do it (check out BDL's suggestion).

Finally and eventually, you will want to replace the Mercer knives.  Whether you will NEED to may still be debatable, but I'm not going to bring that up or rehash it here.  Since the go-to suggestion for inexpensive basic quality was the Forschner, I'll use that as my example.

Forschner is a name that is being phased out by its corporate owner in favor of the corporate owner's name, Victorinox.  Eventually, Forschner will be nothing more than a dim memory   But, until then, look for Forschner, Victorinox and/or Victorinox/Swiss Army.  They all mean exactly the same knives, just different labels made at different times.  No differences in steel, manufacture, price or design.  BDL covered this point,  But for the sake of everyone else's commentary, I'm covering the ground again (apologies to BDL for my redundancy).

Forschner makes both a forged knife line and two stamped knife lines. 

The forged knife line comes with a riveted rosewood handle and a forged bolster which extends along the heel of the blade all the way to the edge of the blade.  The blade is also thicker than the stamped knife. And, it is by far the most expensive of the Victorinox cutlery lines - approaching the Wusthof Classic in price.  It is also the most difficult to find in brick and mortar stores.

The more expensive of the stamped steel knife lines has a riveted rosewood handle.  The significantly less expensive stamped steel line has a molded handle ("fibrox").  There is otherwise no difference between the two stamped steel Victorinox lines.

Almost all of the recommendations I have read call for choosing the stamped steel line rather than the forged line.  The steel in all of the knife lines is the same - X50CrMoV15.  And the heat treatment is exactly the same.  Therefore, the edge and its sharpening abilities are exactly the same, no matter which Victorinox blade you choose, forged or stamped.  Besides price (the forged line is MUCH more expensive), the bolster running along the heel of the blade makes the forged knife MUCH more difficult to sharpen its entire length.  And, to drive the points home (intentional pun), the forged blade is thicker than the stamped steel blades - so the thicker blade will be much more prone to wedging and the accompanying physical effort on your part.

One point will likely be raised here - about how "a heavier blade will let its weight do much of the work".  I would suggest you look up and read BDL's comments on that.  Yes, there will be more mass to allow gravity to do its thing - but that will be offset by the amount of work your hands - and ESPECIALLY your wrists - will have to do, hour by hour, day by day, week by week, etc., etc.  Think of repetitive stress injuries. 

I do realize, Thumper, that you much preferred a bolster along the heel of the blade.  If that is because of sharpness of the 90-degree edge, a bit of 500 to 600 grit silicon carbide sandpaper can help relieve both those edges and the edges of the spine just forward of the handle and bolster.  But, please keep in mind that without the bolster, you will be able to sharpen and use the entire edge of the blade - something which is much more difficult to do with a bolster.

About availability - this is where I think I can shed some fresh light.  Once again, use the Internet.  I would suggest you look at Victorinox's web site home page and use their "find a store" button.  When I started the search, the first page shown listed a large number of product lines (besides cutlery and pocket knives, Victorinox sell quite a bit of Victorinox-branded merchandise.  Only cutlery is of interest in this search.  Choose your starting point, your search radius distance and measurement unit (kilometers or miles) and then begin your examination of the results.

For simplicity's sake, I went by the two large retail chains with brick and mortar stores in your area - Bed, Bath & Beyond, and Sur la Table.  Both offered both an 8 inch and 10 inch fibrox-handled chef knives, though BB&B charged $45 for either length.  Go figure.  S-l-T charged the same for the 10-inch blade, but only $40 for the 8-inch blade.

On paring knives, each had its own solution.  BB&B had a 3-paring-knife set with different knives (all stamped, with fibrox handles) for $15, while S-l-T offered a single fibrox handle stamped paring knife at $6.

I'm assuming that both chains will require any Victorinox knives to be special-ordered.  However, I will also assume that you can do that as a cash-up-front process, with the stores notifying you by e-mail or phone when the order arrives.  It's still a lot cheaper than Wusties.

The other alternatives are to take Victorinox's search results, and do a store-by-store internet search.  Eventually, it's highly likely that you will find a Victorinox cutlery retailer, who is a restaurant supply store.  Very likely, they will have the (fibrox, stamped steel) knives of your search in stock, and very likely much less expensive than BB&B or S-l-T.

My apologies to all for the length of this ramble,  But, I thought it was important to consider how to find a purchase solution (and detail how it could be done) for those who might not have every (financial) resource at beck and call.

Galley Swiller


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

_WOW. _


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