# Fake Knives ???



## kitchenpig (Nov 10, 2010)

Did anyone of you guys ever found or encountered a fake knife ???


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

Not quite sure what a "fake knife" is. I've seen truly awful knives, certainly. But how do you make a fake knife?


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Yes, but not in the world of Kitchen knives. Though it wouldn't surprise me there either.  Generally, they are knives of cheap manufacture quality and low(er) grade steel. Marked and marketed as the real thing though the low price is generally a give away that it's a fake. Logos out of place or other sloppy marking is a common giveaway as are phillips head screws.

You'll also see "real fakes" usually out of china. This happens when a factory in China is contracted to produce X number of knives for a generally reputable brand. Usually, the lower end of the brand, but not always. However, the factory produces X+some hundreds or thousands more and sells them illegally. These may or may not be marked and marketed as the real thing. But it's easy money for the factory.


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

Ohhhh -- like fake Rolexes. I thought you meant fake _knives_ --- things that look like knives but somehow aren't. Gotcha.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Global had a big problem with counterfeits being sold on E-Bay. 

I don't know of any major manufacturer which has any of its quality lines made OEM in China or elsewhere in Asia except for Japan.  And, as usual, Japan is different, complicated, and impossible to explain to people who don't already understand it even by people who understand it well -- which I don't.

BDL


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## kitchenpig (Nov 10, 2010)

heh.... i am not a cook i always wanted to become a chef. Long time ago, my father was a chef in a private hospital in germany, that was about 20+ years ago, and since then i have had a thing for cooking. Nothing major though

Due to my current occupation - father of two most beautiful girls in the world, one almost two, and one almost three - i have absolutely no time for cooking. My wife does not work and i am the only person providing for my family.

Anyway, i would like to purchase two, maybe three knives... just for home cooking.

I love sakai takayuki knives, i was thinking of purchasing the Grand Cheff knife.... and one more of same line - damascus/hammered with desertwood handle. Plus getting a Takeda Gyuto knife.

Getting to the point, how would i know these are not some "chinese" knock offs? 

These would be purchased on ebay as i am not familiar with any Canadian distributors of these fine knives.

Daniel


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

As far as I know there's no significant risk of counterfeiting for any of those three knives.

I've used the plain, stainless Sakai Takayuki a few times, but never tried the hammered one myself. The plain Grand Cheff sharpened so easily and so well, I thought about buying one for myself. For a lot of reasons though, I never pulled the trigger. In terms of price and value it's in the same league as Mac Pro, Masamoto VG, Hiromoto AS, and several other knives. It has an excellent reputation, by the way.

Unfortunately, the hammered knife with the desertwood handle is not considered so highly. The handle is regarded as small and uncomfortable; the blade is thought to be thick especially at the heel; and it isn't considered to be a good knife. But as I said, I never tried one myself. Do yourself a favor and join Fred's Cutlery Forum (on Foodie Forums) and/or the Knife Forum and ask there.

Takedas are Takedas. They are about as different from a basic German knife like a Zwillings or Dreizack as you can get and still cut carrots. They're exquisitely thin, very light, _san-mai_ with an Aogami Super _hagane_, have a very flat edge, and of course have that very rustic, black-from-the-forge (called kurouchi) look. Presumably you're aware that even though the kurouchi finish is some protection against rust, they aren't stainless or anything near it.

The best places to buy Takeda are from Chef Knives To Go, or directly from Takeda in Japan (_here's a link to their online catalog_, unfortunately only available in English and Japanese and unfortunately a clunky process). I don't believe there are significant discounts available on e-bay, and highly recommend purchasing through CKTG. In addition, you'll find Mark, the owner, an excellent source of information.

The best e-tailer for Sakai Takayuki (probably in the entire world) is Paul's Finest, located in Quebec (which actually still is Canada. Sort of). In addition to raising your Sakai Takayuki questions -- especially about the hammered finish knife -- in one of the knife fora, ask Paul himself. He's very knowledgeable and can draw from the experience of many customers.

Both Mark and Paul sell Moritaka knives. Depending on what you want from a Takeda you may get all of it and more for a lower price from a Moritaka. They're not my type of knife, but those whom I know who have tried Moritakas have been more satisfied. Again, ask Mark, Paul and at the other fora. You probably won't find that knowledge here at CT.

One last thing. The Grand Cheff (made with Uddeholm Steel's AEB-L, by the way), the Takeda, and all of the knives within their general, respective classes get extremely sharp. Sharp is good. However, they dull like any other knife and you'll have to sharpen to get and keep them sharp -- and I don't mean with a steel (rod hone), or sending them to a service once a year either. You're going to need waterstones, an Edge Pro, a service you can afford to use three or four times a year, or a Chef's Choice electric machine (and the Chef's Choice is a distant, barely adequate, fourth choice).

Good luck,

BDL


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

I know there was a problem a while back with fake Globals going around.  Mostly I think they were sold on e-Bay and, going by what I've read, were shoddy enough that only a real neophyte would have been fooled.  I guess it makes sense that you'd choose a brand like that to counterfeit- why fake 1000 Kikuichis when no one has heard of them?


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## kitchenpig (Nov 10, 2010)

BDL,

i have contacted Chef knives to go and go no reposnse. Probably my luck  I wanted to purchase the knife we spoke about earlier, and their website said that i qualified for free shipping to Toronto, Canada, but when wanted to purchase the knife it would still charge me 25 or somewhat dollars for shipping. Emailed them, and never got a response.

Maybe even better, because while waiting for it, i gave it some thought and decided to go with Takayuki knifes - The Damascus 17 layer series.

I purchased them from Paul here in Quebec. I got myself a 9.5" chef's knife, 5.3" petty knife, and a 3.15" paring knife. I also purchased an Idahone(fine) and one of the chef's choice sharpeners. I got the 130 model, and after using it on my "home" knives that i had for few years, mostly henkels-cheap ones, i decided i will never use that on my Takayuki knives.

The gizmo made my henkels sharp etc, and brought them somewhat to life again but..... as you mentioned it should be a last resort for good knives. It will do for my henkels 

BDL, thank You for your answer and for all the guidance/advice you have provided, i really appreciate that.

Daniel.


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

KitchenPig said:


> BDL,
> 
> i have contacted Chef knives to go and go no reposnse. Probably my luck


Mark Richmond of CKtG once said his spam filter diverts about 100 valid inquiries per day into the junk mail folder. The solution is to send him a PM at Knifeforums.com or to call him at the number on their website. He takes most of the calls personally and will help you out. I've found CKtG to be among the best companies of any kind I've ever dealt with.


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## kitchenpig (Nov 10, 2010)

Check this out, and this is what i was fearing:

1. Ebay item number 230556293436

2. Ebay item number 230468019383

3. Ebay item number 230557705621

These look EXACTLY like my Sakai Takayuki knives  anyone have any experience with these???

Someone said that Takayuki knives are also manufactured under different names/brands..... Maybe thats why these are on ebay?


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

The ebay seller, My Japaneeds, is legitimate.  The brand, Yoshihiro, is legitimate as well. 

The look of the knives -- wa-handled tsuchime/damascus is quite popular now and several "manufacturers" are selling knives of very similar appearance and construction.  That's common business practice in Japan and not restricted to these knives.  In this case, because their appearance is so striking the similarity is very easily observed.  Whether or not that means that none, some, a lot, or nearly all of the work for Takayuki and Yoshihiro (and others) was done by the same OEM maker(s) is an open question. 

I want to like every knife I try, but never really warmed up to the "17 layer" hammered "Damascus." Most of my reasons though aren't what you'd call generic.  How are you enjoying your knives? 

BDL


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## lennyd (Dec 3, 2010)

Phaedrus said:


> KitchenPig said:
> 
> 
> > BDL,
> ...


Have not placed an order as of yet, but service and response has been spot on so far. Have received answers either same day, or following morning. Tops!


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## kitchenpig (Nov 10, 2010)

BDL,

i love my knives, i have no professional experience preparing food. They feel razor sharp and feel good, although the handles could be slightly bigger  heh, did somebody say that before??? It is funny, as i would probably never notice that without you pointing it out.

One of the knives was sent back to Paul, it had bevel only on one side??? He should have it tommorow, and send it back or a new one along with my new 10.6 Moritaka Gyuto Hagane/Super Blue Carbon Steel and 8.5 Sakai Takayuki Grand Cheff. Funny how i only cook once a week, most of the time over the weekend, and never use these knives during the week

Next step for me i guess would be to learn the "claw" and the rest of the techniques. What would be a good starging point? Youtube?

BDL(personal),

no offence here, but someone should figure out how to clone you With your amount of knowledge, willingness to help and point in the right direction, and heart "one of you" should be at every single forum 

no offence here, don't get me wrong.

Phaedrus and LennyD, please DO NOT hijack the thread, please start a new thread if you wish to review CKTG.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Thanks for the kind words KP.  They mean a lot.  Yes to perfecting your pinch, and learning to "claw" and "cut and retreat" with your offhand.  Take a look at the "Guillotine and Glide" piece on my blog about a classic "rock chop" action. 

While you're there read the post on "Getting a Good Grip."  Learning to keep a straight line from tip through wrist to elbow will help you handle a long knife "instinctively."

BDL


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## lennyd (Dec 3, 2010)

KitchenPig said:


> Phaedrus and LennyD, please DO NOT hijack the thread, please start a new thread if you wish to review CKTG.


Sorry if my post offended you etc as I was only trying to reinforce the point that something unusual may have happened, and to share my personal positive experience so that you would be able to potentially benefit from it.

Hope that helps


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

KitchenPig said:


> Phaedrus and LennyD, please DO NOT hijack the thread, please start a new thread if you wish to review CKTG.


Thread drift is natural and tolerated here. Just accept it.


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## kitchenpig (Nov 10, 2010)

LennyD,

no problemo)) everything is good))


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## lennyd (Dec 3, 2010)

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