# Chicken Wings: Raw vs Precooked



## mrchris

I was wondering if anyone works or has worked in a restaurant that deep fries chicken wings from raw to order?  At the restaurant I'm at right now they come in frozen, are thawed,  baked, portioned, frozen and then taken out and thawed then deep  fried as needed.  Is this the normal industry standard for average restaurants?  I prefer cooked from raw but is that functional in a restaurant kitchen?  Does it kill the oil a lot faster?  Take up lots of fryer time? We only have 2 fryers and they are used mainly for french fries, wings and a few other quick cooking apps.


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## just jim

I think frying from raw provides the highest quality wing.
That being said, yes, it does kill the oil faster.
In a high volume place that cooks enormous amounts of wings, like a brew pub, you'll replace your oil often.
But it does provide a juicier wing.
Smaller places and/or places with limited fryer space tend to use other methods.
We currently thaw and steam our wings until fully cooked.
This renders a lot of the fat off the wing.
When fried the oil lasts longer and we just have to bring the wing to temp.
Still a crispy skin, but notably dryer, though not a huge sacrifice in quality.

Another concern for cooking from raw is sanitation.
I won't describe some of the things I've seen at brew pubs unless asked, but suffice it to say that if you can't trust your crew to follow basic sanitation practices you are going to be creating batches of salmonella soup.


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## skatz85

defiantly you have to do what you have to do to make sure it comes out on time and tastes good. when i worked my first restaurant they had frozen ones(raw) and just put them in the fryer like that, they came out good but i always like to put blackening seasoning and put them in the broiler. at this other chicken place i worked it was raw chicken. i think it depends on your place and how much wings they sell like the previous poster explained


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## charron

We cooked ours from raw.  They came in frozen, were thawed overnight in a sink of running cold water then popped into a bucket in the walk-in until needed.  We had four fryers; two were used for wings, one for fries and fried apps, and one reserved for funnel cakes and fried ice cream.  The oil was changed twice per week, if I recall correctly.  I managed to be on bartender duty whenever the grease traps needed love.  * shrugs *

Oh, btw, our place was always packed on the days when we offered wings specials, and wings were our most popular app/bartop meal.  They were pretty good, and well appreciated by our customers.


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## chefbillyb

Fresh and Raw is always the best. If a restaurant is pre cooking, portioning, and freezing, its probably an item on the menu, and not a big part of the success of the operation. If you have a high volume sports bar doing a lot of hot wings, they will be cook raw to order. Hot and juicy, the best quality so people come back for wings and suds;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;ChefBill


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## chefray

Raw and fresh is the way to go with any dish.  People will wait a few extra minutes if the wings are good enough.  Also, they may buy a few more brews while waiting.


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## mrchris

Well I think I'll have to go with raw.  We only have two fryers so I guess I'll have to limit the amount of fried items.  We we're also thinking about doing our own fresh cut fries using the two fry process.  Does anyone have any experience with this in restaurants?  Can the fries be blanched in the fryer earlier in the day and then used later that night?  Would they keep for more than a day?  If not whats the wastage?


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## just jim

MrChris said:


> Can the fries be blanched in the fryer earlier in the day and then used later that night?


Yes.
They can be blanched, cooled and stored in buckets in the walk-in.



> Would they keep for more than a day?


They should keep 2-3 days with no notable drop in quality.


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## chefedb

I also blanch my wings dry them then fry. My reasons are Speed of service,Cross contamination, less oil consumed and I find less greasy. I dredge in seasoned flour then toss in Franks Hot Sauce and clarified butter. We do it on a daily basis. any left at end of day is for staff, I will not use second day.


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## blueicus

I've worked at places where both methods were done, and I have to say that nothing beats a freshly cooked wing (or most other meats for that matter).  No matter how you do it double cooking ultimately makes any meat drier and less succulent.  On top of that the place where we made wings to order was the busy brew pub, of course there was one guy working fryers and we had about seven baskets worth of fryer space... but it just goes to show that it is possible.


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## mrchris

I have two double basket fryers and I want to do fresh battered fish and chips as well...  I think I need another fryer.


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## unclepaulie

Grilled wings are my favorite just precook em a bit and hold, serve with a Jamaican jerk sauce, although we confit ours at my current gig and they are AWESOME...


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## prairiechef

The best quality wing is cooked from raw. Treat your oil as a food product, and include it in your food cost when you create your recipe standard. Replace it as often as needed. In my restaurant, I change my oil every 2 days at the minimum, every day if necessary. It's simply not worth sacrificing quality to push it. By factoring the cost of oil into my recipe standards, there is no "waste".


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## ktanasy

I leased a restaurant that was located in a very popular bar; we sold an enormous amount of pizza and wings. Although I preferred things to be as fresh as they could possibly be, we had to par-bake the wings in order to keep up with the demand from the bar and a three car delivery service.  We would dredge the raw wings in seasoned flour that also contained an adequate amount of cayenne pepper, they were great! Since we were located in a very remote area of Alaska, we only received one delivery a week by barge. I therefore had to keep several cases of frozen wings in the event that we ran short. The pizza oven was one of those conveyor ovens that was wide enough to pass through a large sheet pan of wings, this is how we par-baked them. We never had any waste since they were par cooked and had a longer shelf life.


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## Guest

Just Jim said:


> I think frying from raw provides the highest quality wing.
> That being said, yes, it does kill the oil faster.
> In a high volume place that cooks enormous amounts of wings, like a brew pub, you'll replace your oil often.
> But it does provide a juicier wing.
> Smaller places and/or places with limited fryer space tend to use other methods.
> We currently thaw and steam our wings until fully cooked.
> This renders a lot of the fat off the wing.
> When fried the oil lasts longer and we just have to bring the wing to temp.
> Still a crispy skin, but notably dryer, though not a huge sacrifice in quality.
> 
> Another concern for cooking from raw is sanitation.
> I won't describe some of the things I've seen at brew pubs unless asked, but suffice it to say that if you can't trust your crew to follow basic sanitation practices you are going to be creating batches of salmonella soup.


Saw this post right here and got me thinking some. Right now we run through 300-400lb wings a week. We are preecooking our wings by baking them first then rapidly cooling them for a quicker frying time. Reason for precooking is the volume we go through. Saw that they where being steamed by Just Jim. Might have turned me on to a new way to precook our wings. Does the steaming of the wings keep them more moist than baking and if so what is the process you use to steam them?


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## mrchris

If you don't have a steamer or combi oven you could put an extra sheet pan in whatever it is you're cooking your wings in and just toss a couple ice cubes on the pan every now and then. Or you could try boiling or braising the wings.

300-400 lbs wow, thats impressive.


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## flyingl66

Understanding that in this economy...operators need to maximize their profits if they are going to survive today! Understanding that "Chicken Wings are the most popular appetizer in the country, it is important to offer chicken wing on your menu. It is incumbent that you offer the best quality as well as the best customer service at the same time increase profits. The reality is mot operators purchase raw wings not for their eating quality but because the perceived notion that they are more profitable than paying the higher price of pre-cooked. The most popular size of raw wings is the 8 to the pound average count. You mentioned what you do to prevent water from destroying your oil, that is just one of the drawbacks of raw!, you have to monitor temperature, wash every surface that comes in contact with raw chicken, you have long cook times, space issues and shelf life concerns not to mention the concerns of cross-contamination and food borne illness. 



Most operators, not all but most, offer 10 wing portions. If you are buying an 8 to the pound wing, it takes 1.5# to produce 1 order of wings. A 40 pound case of 8 count wings has an average of 320 wings or 32 portions @ an Average price considering market fluctuations of $1.75 per lb. ($70.00 per case) and a menu price of $7.99 your revenue is less the cost of goods is $185.68 or a return on investment of $4.64 per lb. Also understand that when cooking a raw chicken wing to 165 degrees in a fryer, will shrink 45 to 50 %! Producing a 15 to A 17 to the pound finished product (for every 40 pound case of raw wing you cook out 18 to 20# of water and fat). 



The only real advantage raw wing offer is appearance (golden brown skin). Actually, raw wings are only juicy immediately after cook. If you are doing take-out or catering they lose temp and moisture faster than pre-cooked.



The good news is there is a wing that is available that has everything done to it you are doing now, cooked from fresh, steamed and then flash frozen. This process produces a replacement to raw providing a quality product without the issues of raw while providing increased profits. Let's say you pay $3.35 per lb. for this product at an average count of 11, if you buy 40 pounds you pay $134.00 or $64.00 more than raw but you have 440 wings or 44 portions that is 12 more portions than 40 lbs. of raw. Selling at $7.99 generating $95.88 in revenue. Subtract the additional cost of pre-cooked and you have an increase in profits of $31.88 PER 40# CASE!!!! Most operators I know will switch suppliers on raw for a nickel a pound or $2.00 a case! If you can eliminate all the issues you have with raw, serve an equal to or an improvement in quality, with a cook time of 4 to 5 min. allowing faster customer service. I would think this is a no brainer.


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## chefwingsranch

I have a bar&grill and the way we do them is from raw to deep fryer sometimes we do from raw to deep fryer to bbq for that mesquite taste and boy do they keep coming back.


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## redzuk

FlyingL66 said:


> Subtract the additional cost of pre-cooked and you have an increase in profits of $31.88 PER 40# CASE!!!!


You lost me. With your numbers I figure food cost 28% fresh vs 38% frozen. The wing chains I've been to use frozen but it takes 15 minutes to cook anyway, at least thats what they told me.


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## pete

I would have to agree with the consenus here and say that fresh are a better product than frozen or precooked, but you also have to take into account the equipment you have available to you.  If you only have 1 or 2 fryers and sell a lot of fried foods then you really can't afford (time wise) to be taking up fryer baskets with wings for 20 minutes at a time.  So unless you have at least 1 fryer that you can use exclusively for wings they you will need to precook them or you will cause a train wreck at your fryer station.


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## jamsearch

I used to work at Applebee's about ten years ago and we would drop wings into the fryer frozen and cook about ten minutes( I forgot the correct time) until they are half cooked. A little pink juice would still be present. Then they would be dumped on a sheet pan and cooled in the cooler. Next they would be portioned into 12 per order and placed in the pull box. They were cooked daily. When orders came in they were dropped into the fryer for about ten minutes until done and then dumped in a 2 qt cambro with the Buffalo sauce and shaken. Then placed in serving basket with celery sticks.


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## oldfoodguy

On our wing nights we typically do 250 - 300lbs of wings in a 60 minute service. We have had the best results by par baking in a convection oven, cooling then frying in small batches before tossing in different sauces.

We have also done a lot of raw fries and the 2-3 days hold on fries blanched in oil works just fine. If blanched in oil, I am sure the lemon slice mentioned above would not be needed. Last fall we did about 200# ahead and then finished them on a propane turkey fryer and had a great product for an outdoor event.

To get the best result, we cut, rinsed, dried, par-fried, fried the potatos. Getting the starch off really helps extend the life of the fryer oil.


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## jaredstone

I live and work in Buffalo, NY and you'd be hard pressed to find too many restaurants out here that don't serve chicken wings.  I'd have to say raw and straight into the fryer is the generally accepted way to cook them, out here at least.  And as for taking up time in the fryers, it takes about 12-15 minutes, its up to you if thats too much time.


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## xerp

I buy fresh jumbo wings and stick them in a homeade brine for about 1 and a half hours then rub them down with my wing dust and roast them in the oven until they are around medium rare... after that I drain the excess grease and bag them up and fry them to order. I would love to brine them and fry them from raw but it tears up the oil in my fryers to much especially when you live in an area that wants everything deep fried and you have to change your oil almost every other night of the week..


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## xerp

Just Jim said:


> Yes.
> They can be blanched, cooled and stored in buckets in the walk-in.
> They should keep 2-3 days with no notable drop in quality.


I do the same thing in the busy season here.. But if you want that extra thirty seconds pull them out about half an hour before hand and let them get to room temperature.. But normally I blanch and re-drop to order in the slower time as it only takes around 5 - 6 minutes as long as your baskets arent over-crowded... This is with two 45 gallon deep fryers in a 180 seat restaurant as well...


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## chefedb

For us the fastest way although not the best ,only fresh is the best. We steam them, place them on a rack in a combi,  drain well and cool. Bag 10 to the bag and finish in fryer otherwise we get killed . 

     We keep one smaller table top fryer for fish only as the fish does impart a taste to other foods..

    To clean a fryer quick on the fly, drop a raw egg shell and all into it . The egg cooks and draws all the floating sediment from the oil into it . Then just take out the mass with a spider or large slotted spoon and disgard. We fry at 350. for wings and strain oil daily, and clean kettles.


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## thomas rhee

Raw to fryer is best if you want the best taste and moistness.

However, when I make wings I prefer lightly coating them with seasoned potato starch and double frying it.  The first time blanching them in low heat oil and the second time in high heat oil to crisp them up.

I also marinate my wings overnight with egg whites, baking soda (1 Tbsp for every 10 pounds), a touch of soy sauce, fresh minced garlic, garlic powder, kosher salt and ground white pepper.  This allows the wings to develop flavor and the egg whites and baking soda will tenderize the wings for a supremely moist and tender wing while the seasoned potato starch will give it unbelievable flavored crunch.

Double frying also helps in a restaurant setting since the wings can be blanched off just prior to service.


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## cory35

i,ve done from raw to fryer and par cooked. of course raw is best result if in high volume restaurant they usually have a fryer or 2 just dedicated to cooking meats so its farely easy to keep up but if u dont have the space or have time restraints then do what u have to also if your cooking wings in a fryer with other items such as fries the fries can take on that flavor


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## veronporter

We confit ours in duck fat, garlic and thyme. Cool, snip off the pointy part/cartilage and pull out the bones. Then we vacuum bag them up and fry them to order. 

Delicious.


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## cheflayne

I like the idea of confit, then fry to order. I have done that with duck wings. Just curious though why you use duck fat to confit chicken wings as opposed to schmaltz.


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## raibeaux

Pete, I'm in that pickle myself.  I recently started frying chicken.  I'm doing it in a 14" fryer, and it doesn't leave a whole bunch of room, plus I filter every third batch.

I'm mulling over whether I want to really get into the chicken thing in a heavy way, which will entail a $9000 vent hood system plus two new 18" fryers.  All in all, about a $25,000 cash outlay. 

For chicken wings, I have always lightly dusted in plain flour, knocked off most of it and fried for 9-10 minutes.  For me, it seems the light breading helps keep the wings a little more juicy and helps the wing sauce adhere just a little bit better.  I might add I am NOT doing chicken wings presently except those included with my "Half-Fried Chicken Dinner".


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## david swartz jr

We go through a lot of wings. Went through 18 40# cases last week, and we often hear that we have the best wings in town. We use only fresh, jumbo wings, change our fry oil twice a week and fry wings to order. During rushes we will par off some wings and have them ready to drop into the oil when orders come in. It's pretty much the only way we can keep up with orders during rushes.

We also do baked wings. We'll bake'em in the morning for 40 minutes and then crash cool them. Then it's into the oven for 5 minutes when an order comes in.


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## daremyster

I was going to do a precook on my chicken wings but after doing an in house taste test, I decided it was much better to cook from raw stage, my customers don't mind waiting. I only have 1 fryer and I have to change oil twice a week. I run a rooming house with a cafe & tavern attached.


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## guyfranke

Thank you Chef Jim...but guys, and I'm new to this professional world actually but not in tasting, isn't taste what it's all about? And fat makes things very delicious. Rendering a chicken wing seems actually wasteful. Is fryer oil change going to make or break an outfit? Won't consumers prefer delicious even paying a little more? Or is the world indifferent, even when it comes to taste...just asking. And thanks again Jim for your insight (sanitation is #1) and MrChris for his query. Cheers.


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## cacioepepe

David Swartz Jr said:


> We go through a lot of wings. Went through 18 40# cases last week, and we often hear that we have the best wings in town. We use only fresh, jumbo wings, change our fry oil twice a week and fry wings to order. During rushes we will par off some wings and have them ready to drop into the oil when orders come in. It's pretty much the only way we can keep up with orders during rushes.
> 
> We also do baked wings. We'll bake'em in the morning for 40 minutes and then crash cool them. Then it's into the oven for 5 minutes when an order comes in.


Only twice a week doing almost #800 of wings? At that volume I'd think every other day...


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## raibeaux

I know a guy that used to have a big catfish restaurant.  He said he fried so much fish that with the oil loss from cooking, he didn't have to replace it very often (as in going weeks at a time, evidently. 

He said he very seldom had to change the oil (throw it out).  He bought his oil in 55 gallon drums.  Went through a lot of filters, but didn't have to throw away a lot of oil.


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## left4bread

The fat is going to render out of the chicken when you cook it, however you cook it. It's not wasteful because having chicken fat mixed in your fryer oil is going to shorten the life of the fryer oil. Not sure if that answers your question.

We get ours in fresh, 30 minute brine, air dried, tossed in oil with a bit of cayenne, and baked. Then fried to order.

I did a taste test versus raw last month and I liked the pre-cooked ones better. Crispier crust, just as moist, and half the ticket time. Perhaps the brine is the X factor?

Only go through 40lbs a week, so we can afford the extra prep time.


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## saucie776

I only use raw wings in my fryer on 350 degrees for 13 min. 11 min cooks them thru ,but 13 makes it perfectly crispy, I then put them in  a granulated garlic  powder & liquid margarine (ONLY PURCHASED THRU  A FOOD DISTRIBUTOR) toss em  then coat  em in your sauce and let  the people  love  em!! Good Luck


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## raibeaux

Saucie, do you add any salt to the butter/garlic mix?

I've just started wings for the third time, looking for a couple of WOW coatings.  Any suggestions as to garlic-parmesan?  I've tried garlic-parmesan from two chains, and didn't like either very much.

Thanks for the suggestion.


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## saucie776

Hi there, play around with a half cup liquid margarine, eyeball 1 teaspoon each of onion powder and granulated garlic 1/2 t of fresh lemon juice, pinch of salt, 1/8 tsp white pepper mix and coat, also using about a 1/2 teaspoon of baking powder will add crispiness to the 14-16 wings while you cook them if u are baking or grilling.. Good luck/img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif


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## saucie776

I forgot the parm sorry hahah   Preoccupied doing menu's here. Roughly a half  cup


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## cowboy

Anybody got a good method for stuffing wings? I saw it once but every way ive tried they dont come out right. I cant figure out how tgey did it...I dont want to bread them to seal the whole for putting in the filling


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## chinesefood69

Raw to cooked produces the best results but at my restaurant/bar we are very tight on space(nyc) with only one fryer. So we fry them at the beginning of service for about 8 minutes and they get finished to order for another 4 minutes until crispy

I wouldnt mind the extra time it takes to get the better results but in certain kitchen spaces it would bot be possible to cook them from raw. It takes about 13 minutes in my fryer and in that time we would have other orders coming in that would need space in the fryer as well... with limited space would not be physically possible in my particular situation. If you have the room to cook them from raw I would go that route but pre frying doesnt degrade the quality too much in my personal opinion.

First time posting on this forum. Hello everyone!


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## raibeaux

Thanks, Saucie.

Haven't had a chance to try it yet, but I will really soon.  Sounds good. 

Thanks again.


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## chef carmelo

I just took over a kitchen in a bar and I want to serve great wings .I need some recipes.Thanks


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## emmastonen

Fresh and Raw is always the best  but you also have to take into account the equipment you have available to you.


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## ljcooks

Hello everyone.  I'm new to this site and find it very interesting and informative.  I manage a small pub and eatery that seats around 160 people.  We serve around 400 lbs a week. Of course fresh is always superior, but I have found that bringing ours in frozen precooked is much more cost effective.  We thaw them and fry for about 4-5 mins.  Saves all the way around. Saves grease, saves prep time, no worries about cross contamination.  They are unseasoned so you can do whatever you want with them...and our customers love them....We can also offer them at a price our customers love....win win situation.


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## ladyfelix

I need some help with a chicken wing issue. Iv recently started working at a pizza place for some extra hours and noticed that they keep all there boxes of wings in the walk in cooler and not the freezer! :s I called the owner to ask Y and he said that their good for 7 days cause it's fully cooked processed wings. Just doesn't sound right and can't find anything online. Please help


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## chef scurp

I have always liked cooking my chicken wings from raw. I either deep-fry them, or coat them with olive oil roast them in the oven turning them while they are cooking. Either way I cook them until they reach 145℉-150℉ and then I chill them. You can freeze them after they are chilled for later use. You can bring them back up to temp any way you want really, but I prefer to do them in the oven. My favorite way to eat chicken wings is with thai flavoring.. Ginger, lemongrass, lime leaf, chili's if you want that spice, etc.


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## inked chef dave

I'm about to brine the wings and then cook them in the oven. Then Cool, then portion them, Then freeze.. to fry up later. We'll see. I think if you brine them they'll stay juicy. Not many people doing this way. This way it'll Save your fryer oil and cook time too. Win Win.


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## linecook854

The way I've done wings at one place was to brine overnight, poached in salted water and let cool in the liquid, drain. To order we'd toss with cornstarch and fry. The brining process accompanied with a moist cooking method keeps the meat juicy. Good results every time. Cooking raw wings to order was not realistic for our set up nor did we sell enough to warrant it.


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## seabeecook

David Swartz Jr said:


> ... Went through 18 40# cases last week ...


Have you counted how many servings in a 40# case? Curious. I won't buy wings until this summer at the camp.


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## chef oddball

Roaster size wings you should get around 80 per 10# so 320 in a 40# case approx


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## alan marcus

Excellent information with accurate prices!

Chef, could you recommend some names of preferred vendors that supply quality precooked wings.

Thanks for the advice,

Marcus


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## the novice

Questions:

1. What does "10# or 40#" mean?

2. I have two of these fryers: http://www.foodservicewarehouse.com/globe/pf16e/p1348872.aspx

One of them is going to frying battered fish for a F&C, the other for fries. Is it safe, practical, hygenic? to use the other fryer to cook chicken wings as well as fries, i am speaking in regards to the chicken fat, because i don't want my fries tasting like raw chicken????


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## brianshaw

# means pound (lb or 16 ounces, not the British currency). 

I don't cook other things in the oil meant for fries, just fries. That wouldn't make them taste like raw chicken but they might start tasting like fried chicken.


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