# Overated and Overused Foods



## schmoozer (Jan 10, 2010)

There are many foods that a lot of people feel are wonderful or important to use, but that some people may find overated or not particularly worth all the acclaim they get, or overused. For me, one of those foods is bacon - more specifically, the typical American bacons found in supermarkets, butcher shops, and mail order. Another is chipotle and jalapeno chiles, even though I like and use them, they seem to be used almost everwhere a chile is called for, yet the world is filled with so many other, more interesting varieties.

What food items do you find to be overated or overused?

Schmoozer


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## shipscook (Jan 14, 2007)

boneless, skinless chicken breasts. Unless there is a specific need for them in a recipe I use bonein breasts or thighs.
second for me would be bacon?

interesting thread,
Nan


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Lobster, chicken breasts, and filet mignon - these are all good, very good indeed. But they are the safe route. The only thing that can go wrong here is to overcook. They don't require much skill and I don't think they relinquish the best flavors. I'm much more interested iin seeing what you can do with a squid, dark meat, or chuck; the cheaper parts.

Truffles - I don't get it. The flavor doesn't enthuse me.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

I'm with you on boneless chicken breast....a uphemism for flavorless low-fat protein option.

Truffle too.....it's used to increase btm line and is rarely the "good shtuff" used to it's advantage. Many use it because it's price says it's SPECIAL.

Ciabatta or artisan breads put out at generic grocery stores.....some really bastardize the name of something that can be delicious.

yogurt. what the heck is white chocolate/raspberry, low-fat, pro biotic, glop in a container? When did the real deal become so gross?


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

I've got a list, I do. Right at the top is truffle oil, an ingredient I see no use for at all.

I also think balsamic vinegar is way overused. There's nothing wrong with it. But there are a whole lot of other vinegars that often would be better choices. Unfortunately, now that the celebrity chefs have discovered it, Sherry vinegar is moving in the same direction.

I don't quite agree with Nan about boneless, skinless chicken breasts. They're quite the thing when you want a tasteless, all but nutrient free protein. :lol:

I wouldn't say bacon, per se, is on my list. But pancetta certainly is overused big time.

If we're to believe restaurant menus and celebrity chefs, mango is the only tropical fruit available. Ease up, guys, and explore some of the other great flavors.

I don't begin to understand the American fascination with filet mignon, when there are so many other better beef cuts available. I never had a filet mignon that could hold its own against even a mediocre rib eye, for instance.

Koukougavia: regarding your comments about squid, I would say that all the cephalopods are _underused _in the U.S. When, for instance, is the last time anyone on this thread had cuttlefish? Squid is probably the most used, but, thankfully, octopus is growing in popularity. I say thankfully because it makes it more available. I even have a reliable source of baby octopi in Lexington. If I can get it there I figure you can get it anywhere.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Scallops. Like so many of the things mentioned here, good, wonderful even, but done to death.

BDL


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

You know what's overused? Sweet/sour Asian appetizer sauces. Forgive me for being jaded, but every other "Asian inspired" salad dressing or cold appetizer dipping sauce have the same elements. It's as if people have come to expect that flavor.


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## happyfood (Feb 24, 2009)

Sun dried tomatoes

Salmon

gotta agree on bl/skl chix br (pronounced bil-skil-chix-bur) and beef tenderloin-usually flavorless and bland

Give me a good old ribeye, hangar steak or pork chop any day


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## gunnar (Apr 3, 2008)

endive, what the **** is so special about this friggin overpriced green? tuna - seared, served as poke, crusted with whatever can get stuck in yer teeth blah blah blah, overused and so done with. Shrimp, like i need to say it. also tired of chipotle, ciabatta bread and cheesecakes, not together, just in general.

what i would like more of is stuff like cabbage rolls, lumpia or other peasant fav's


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

Chipotle, roasted garlic, capers, grass fed beef and, while not a food, the words artisan and Tuscan (or Tuscany).


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

What is wrong with grass fed beef? If only I could afford it on a regular basis.... by the way, cows are supposed to eat grass (not corn!) and now they're acting like they're doing us a favor by selling us grass fed beef at 4x the cost.

I have cuttlefish all summer long when I visit my folks in Greece. Squid is rarely available at that time of year. It's a nice mild protein. I've eaten more octopus and sea urchin in my lifetime than salmon, tuna, and scallops combined. Large fish are new to me.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Filet Mignon
New York Steak 
Halibut
Chilean Seabass
Tilapia
Boneless Skinless Chicken Breast

These are all on my current "boring" list.


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

Low fat yogurt
Flavored Water
"Gourmet" Flavored Coffee
Filet Mignon
Escargots

Please.....not the bacon.......


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

I thought cows were supposed to eat the remains of other animals? Oh no wait.... that didn't work. Back to GMO corn. You can breathe now.


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## dillonsmimi (Dec 2, 2009)

Drat...all the "good" ones are taken. I love bacon. That sounds so good that I'll say it again. I love bacon. I love my bacon with eggs and biscuits and good thick flabby white bread and tomato, lettuce and MIRACLE WHIP! My guilty pleasure...crisp bacon stuffed between 2 slices of really crispy buttered toast slathered with grape jam. HA! Take that Bobby Flay!


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

Didn't say anything was wrong with it.
If you like it, great!

I personally don't care for it, I like flavor.
It has such a lack of marbeling it can't be graded.
Is it healthier?
You betcha.
But I'll eat my marbled corn fed ribeye, and drink water instead of soda to get my health benefit.

Nothing wrong with Chipotle or anything else I mentioned either.
I just think they're overused.
Perhaps I touched a nerve, my apologies.


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

Can't leave out the bacon dipped in chocolate :lol: bacon is a food group of its own so quit picking on it! And my quarter of grass fed beef will be ready for delivery Feb. 1st, I am paying $2.17 a pound


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## gunnar (Apr 3, 2008)

I wouldn't worry about it. this is an opinions thread, not your word is as law thread. 

as an aside, as a kid, to finish off the pigs we raised, my parents would switch to a corn feed the last 2 months it was alive. they swore it added flavor. Personally I like grass fed beef, honestly i find it plenty flavorful, maybe i should buy some of both and do some side by side comparisons.


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

opinions thread? haha :lol: While reading I felt like defending some of the items under scrutiny. I'll get over it...I will :lol:

Doing a side by side comparison is kind of nice. There's really no doubt that there's a different flavor profile going from corn fed to grass fed beef. But you can really appreciate what both have to offer when trying them side by side.


I remember my wife and I did a taste test with beef a while ago. We had choice, dry aged, grass fed, and prime NY strips. Cooked on a gas grill with only salt added after they were done. It was really neat to run through the different flavors and textures as well.

keep eatin!
dan


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## ryan.brosseau1 (Jul 24, 2009)

The Pad Thai can go away any time soon. Talk about the most boring example of a countries culinary contribution. What about the million other Thai dishes that have way more flavour and texture etc etc etc..... there a billion things you can do with Thai curry for example And why is it on the menu's of American style bistros and bars right next to the penne with sausage and lingune alfredo.

And i ageee 100% about the fillet steak and the boneless breast of chix...boring boring boring


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## docsmith (Aug 4, 2008)

Cilantro 

Quit ruining my food.


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## chefray (Sep 29, 2009)

I'll agree with "supermarket" bacon. Good bacon, smoked and peppered as a belly and cut on site, is another story.

On my short list of overused are(with my suggestions for replacements):
Jalapeno (Tabasco Chilis)
Diver Scallops (Shark)
Razor Clams (River Mussels)
Lobster (Crayfish/Langoustines)
New York Strip (Sirloin)
Halibut (For God's sake pick any other fish, please!)


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## mal carne (Feb 21, 2009)

Fries, French Fries, Freedom Fries, Smothered Fries, Chili and Cheese Fries or any other version of an Idaho potato cut into a stick and deep fried. Tasty? You bet. Abundant in creativity? Not on your life. Don't get me wrong I like fries as much as anyone else but I'd love to see someone do something interesting with fried potatoes. Not a food but the term "house made" in restaurants is starting to annoy me especially when I hear of restaurants buying canned soup, adding carrots and onion and passing it off as house made or home made. 

-mal carne


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

Dan.....don't just tell us you did a comparison, Results pls  ok pretty please with a cherry on top


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## greyeaglem (Apr 17, 2006)

Certified angus, tortilla- wrapped everything, ranch dressing and hot peppers in everything.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Sounds like someone needs to check out the movie Food Inc.
YouTube - Food Inc - Official Trailer [HD]


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

That movie doesn't contradict my statement.
Do you work for the grassfed beef coalition or something? 
You seem to have an agenda to single out this one food out of all mentioned.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

I would feel pretty silly asking you "what's wrong with lobster?, etc.
It's your opinion that these foods are played out, you didn't say anything was wrong with them.
Yet you single out a food I expressed the identical sentiment as you and the rest....in my opinion grassfed beef is played out, especially in this area.
So it leaves me wondering why you've chosen this crusade.


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## gunnar (Apr 3, 2008)

Poor Jim, having to defend his fed uppedness for grass fed beef. I totally get where you are coming from. I dunno bout the rest of the country but we in No.Cali have been getting clubbed upside the head with grass fed beef relentlessly. Suddenly every ex hippy vegetarian is crawling out of the bong and clamoring for it. again, poor Jim is just had it with it. just as I am sure someone in Chicago is just muttering to himself.." if I have to do ANYTHING with another piece of Foie Gras I'm gonna hurt someone!":lol:


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

We have only the option of grass fed beef in this wide brown land. I love it 

Lobster is way over-rated, crab or shrimp tastes better. Lobster is merely a vehicle fpr other flavours. like... hmmmm say butter. Overpriced and over-rated. IMHO 

But...pls... nobody knock oysters


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

It's not a crusade and I wouldn't say I have an agenda. It just struck me as odd because I rarely ever see grass-fed beef and when I do it is exorbitantly priced and out of my reach. I never hear it mentioned, it's all new to me so I'm just surprised that there are folks out there that are already sick of it. It's for sure a healthier option not just for our body but for the ecological health of the planet. I've been eating corn fed beef for decades simply because that's all there is available to me, not because it's a preference. No reason for you to go picking a fight, you're certainly not going to make me dislike grass fed beef as the outcome. 

Now if you had said you like iceberg lettuce and white button mushrooms... well then there's something to really fight about.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

I'm jealous. You wouldn't believe what we have to pay for it here.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

Wasn't picking one.
Was trying to figure out why you singled me out.
Twice.
Your explanation makes sense, and if I'd have seen that in your original response I'm sure there would've been less of a communication issue.
I took it as a given that each person's opinion was very individual.
I don't see the overuse of Foie up here like someone would elsewhere, as has been suggested.
So again, wasn't picking a fight.
It actually felt more like you were.
Now we know.

I wasn't trying to convert you.
Wasn't even thinking of you when I posted.
I've tried both, and while I see the health benefits of grassfed, I prefer the flavor of the corn fed.
I'm sure a part of that is because that's what my body and palate are accustomed to.


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

Koukou,
I don't think I've ever tasted corn fed beef, although I've travelled. It's just not an item here. Price here for grass fed is aprox. AUS$15.00 per kg, which, roughly, equates to USD$8/lb. It's young and tasty enough, this is only for rump and the like. Fillet I don't even look at for fear of heart failure. Prime rib is about AUS$30/kg, so USD$15/lb.

Back on topic. Don't anyone even mention goat's cheese. Leave the poor goats alone (oh I know I'll cop it for that- ahwell  )


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Hmmm...

What do I think is the most overrated and overused foods?

How about store branded "organic" foods! Ugh, I was sick of it when it first started being used. Because when it started being used it started being abused.

Starbucks coffee. (to me) The stuff just tastes bad. 

Extra Virgin Olive Oil. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely adore good olive oil...I do! But there's a place for flavorless oils that many people just overlook. Sometimes you just don't want the flavor (much like gas grills. I prefer charcoal, but there are times when you want to, only, taste the flavor of the food)

Local markets (in my area). Ok...I'm sure alot of you may disagree with me. But you can come up with your own list, HA! Much of the stuff I find at the (several) local markets that I've visited in my area is overpriced and weak on taste. I'm absolutely tired of listening to some marketeer say all the right things and then I taste or see their product. My worst example is some marketeer telling me how he and his wife stayed up late to clean off the last of the fresh laid eggs he brought to market. Well, I couldn't wait to try the man's eggs, so as soon as I got home I proceeded to cook some up. I heated up the pan, cracked the egg and placed it in the heated pan. It spread everywhere and filled up the whole pan! I'm also tired of farmers who won't sell roasts at farmers markets...I understand that it's their choice, but I don't want to buy a 1" steak or a 1" pork chop.


I initially had a decent write up at a webpage that is now gone. So the short version. I try and do side by side comparisons from time to time. It's a great way to learn differences apart. It's just too hard to come to a valid conclusion relying so much on subjective memory. (oh cables, what have you made me). S

The choice actually had decent flavor although the texture was a little "off". Not bad, but noticeable.

The grass-fed was easily identifiable. It's got that sweet taste to it...but I could see how some people are put off by the flavor, it is different than corn fed beef. If only there was more corn finished grass fed beef.

Dry aged is a real treat for me. It's got a nice deep roasted complex flavor that is so different from other steaks. 

Prime. I was really hoping that the prime steak would fall either close to the others or somewhere mixed into the ranking of the others. But the rich, deep buttery flavors and texture was just so good I had no choice (haha) but to rate this my favorite of the group. Oh so good! 


it's late,
dan


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## mike8913 (Mar 22, 2008)

Filet Mignon

Short ribs

Scallops

Foie Gras

I think its wonderful that Foie is starting to become mainstream in this country, I just think its taking on so quickly that it is no longer special. Lately, and maybe its just my local area, but I've been noticing a lot of shelf extending plating for foie gras like mousses and creams which to me conveys the flavor profile of the liver so well but degrades what is so amazing about the product, the texture.

That brings me to my overrall feeling about American cuisine today; we are finally beginning to appreciate flavor and seasonality and locality, but I still feel we are very primative in our taste for texture.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

'Nough said, no bickering. But it's interesting what you say about palate because I often feel the need to retrain my palate (and brain) to like something I want to like. I've never liked bananas for example, but they are very good for you so I made it a personal goal to begin liking them. I tried eating them regularly and after a while I began to like them. I did the same thing with yogurt.... god how I hated yogurt. Now I still don't love it but I tolerate it enough to make it a healthy breakfast 3-4 days a week.

I'm trying to do the same thing with whole wheat products like bread, pasta, pizza crust, cereal, etc. but it's proving to be very difficult. I really like enriched white flour! Part of a healthy approach to lifestyle is retraining your palate to like things you're not accustomed to... boy is it hard, especially for americans.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Nonsense! There cannot be enough Foie Gras!


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## chefboyarg (Oct 28, 2008)

On the subject of bacon, there was a regular in one day and as they were finishing up the meal he made a subtle comment about how if he could eat bacon for dessert he would. (We have an open kitchen) The sous looked up, arched his eyebrows and said " I can glaze some in caramel for you if you would like and put it in our sundae" Done and done. 

As for the list I can't really think of everything.

GO BACON!


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

No bickering here.
I've never trained myself to like something, and I'm in no way knocking you for doing so.
I have however trained myself to tolerate something so that I was able to critique it.
Nothing worse than a cook who won't taste their food to see if it's acceptable on the grounds that they "don't like it".
I do however periodically retry foods to see if I've grown to like them.
Palates change naturally without conscious effort.
Foods we hated as children can suddenly become something we love as adults, with no progressive effort.
I will also retry foods if I think the talent of the cook, the quality of the ingredients or the preparation method might effect the end result enough to make a difference to my tongue. My personal tongue, with all of it's quirks.

Good for you to make such a concerted effort to eat healthier.
I lack that discipline.
I applaud you.


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## dillonsmimi (Dec 2, 2009)

What is the deal with broccoli...I like to buy those "steamer" packages of veggies for a quick weeknite side and there it is!!! Do those R&D people even TRY the stuff? While carrots, corn and everything else is al dente the broccoli is mush.


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

I prefer the flavor of grass fed beef over corn fed. I am lucky that I live in the middle of farm country and can get grass fed beef by the quarter for $2 a pound plus processing fees. The farm I get it from sells direct to the public and has a local butcher who is USDA certified do the cutting and wrapping.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

Clam Chowder.
Sourdough.
Bacon Wrapped Anything.
Chocolate Lava Cake


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Oh yer making me made Just Jim! 

 <----- see that face! It's aimed right at you

DAN!


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## gunnar (Apr 3, 2008)

Chocolate Lava Cake[/QUOTE said:


> I hate this bad imitation of a chocolate souffle!


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

Just Jim
I agree with the chowder

Dan,

You kill me. 
Bacon ! Chocolate ! Hitting close to home ?

Oh , I have another one for the great list.....SOY. If anyone serves me Tofu....


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

I don't think I'll ever get tired of chipotles or bacon!


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## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

I could eat bacon a lot more than I do. I usually get thick cut slices from the meat counter and not the mass market packaged stuff.

Dungeness crab, to me, is more enticing than lobster.

Filet mignon is tender. Usually very tender. Almost any other cut of beef will have more flavor. But filet is tender.

Boneless, skinless chicken breasts have their place. I use them for some dishes like chicken parm. When I want to eat chicken as chicken, though [like tonight] skin on, bone in thighs are the way to go if I'm not up to roasting a whole bird.

It has been a long time since I bought a head of iceberg lettuce.

There are probably folks out there who would tell you the evils of using real lard and butter, while they happily suck down their half gallon of carmel colored, carbonated, chemically altered sugar water and their mass market fries.

Chicken wings can be overused, but I love them. I blame my mother, rest her soul, who baked sheets of really good herb and sour cream wings when I was a wee lad back in the late fifties, early sixties.

mjb.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

:lol::thumb:


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

What is overused in North America is underused here in Italy and vice versa, but since most of the discussants here are American, I'll say what I think is way overused and overrated in american cooking - As others have already said, chicken in general, and chicken breasts in particular. (Is there anything more tasteless, and that has a more unpleasant texture?)

Mind you, I LOVE chicken, I could eat chicken every night, roasted, fried, and even poached if it's in dishes like pot pie or tetrazzini. 

But every time i go to the states, i find chicken in the weirdest places. On Pizza. I say on PIZZA! Need i say more. Or in supposedly italian pasta dishes*. Or in every other sandwich in the sandwich store (oh, yes, and another overused thing, with pesto). In every salad - do they even make caesar salad without chicken anywhere? 

Here in italy, instead, the overused ingredients, to my mind, is small tasteless cherrytomato-sized mozzarelle and canned corn. Every crappy lunch place has salads sitting out since the mornin g with a bit of lettuce, some tasteless tomatoes (unthinkable in a country with such good tomatoes) and canned corn (oh yes, i'm quite serious) and little mozzarelle - which, sitting there on the salad mean that you are eating salad with milk in it. bla. 

*chicken tetrazzini is, despite its name (named for the famous and wonderful soprano) and the pasta in it, a very unitalian dish, with its sherry and creamy veloute' and mainly the chicken with the pasta. I love it, but what i'm talking about is pasta dishes with pieces of chicken on top. Pesto and chicken. Tomato sauce and chicken. Alfredo and chicken. help!


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

:laser: "Barbecue chicken pizza". Agghhhh, so wrong

Oregon is about 10 years behind the rest of the USA. Please tell me this is dead in the rest of the country.


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## kalach (Aug 18, 2009)

No chicken pizzas? You guys wont like my fruit chutney chicken pizza I run on specials now and then  .

Anyway back on topic, I'm over seeing 'crispy skin such an such', a lot of the more upscale restaurants around here feel the need to make all fish crispy. The worst culprit, I know before I even see thier specials board on the way to work it will say something to the effect of "crispy skin <insert type of fish here> with <veg> and <sauce>" every day without fail...

Cos lettuce and rocket, seriously there are other types of lettuce/salad greens..


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Siduri, I look forward to reading your opinions BECAUSE you have a different perspective. Please don't ever hold back expressing your views about food, ingredients or taste profiles. Heck, I wish you posted more! 


Hmmm...overused & overrated items?????


I don't know? So many things have been said. How about the hamburger? I haven't got anything against a good hamburger cooked (anywhere) below medium. But then all the places give you the same drivel regarding bacteria and hamburger...blah blah blah. Have any of these places heard of grinding their own meat? UGH!

dan
dan


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

Thanks dan. I can be pretty heavy handed sometimes but am harmless really.


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## cyberdoc (Nov 1, 2009)

I'm with you on the filet mignon. When I do steak it's usually a nice thick ribeye.


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## cyberdoc (Nov 1, 2009)

I don't think you are really heavy handed. You call it like you see it.


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## thegardenguru (Dec 4, 2009)

I'm loving this thread.

The only issue I have is that there are some "classic" foods that ended up here. The dilemma is that to be "classic", the food has to be almost to the point of being "overused". Escargot is a good example.

I'd like to add some foods to the list (I don't think I saw them in past posts):

*caviar* -- over-rated and now being used on all kinds of dishes for no reason other than to say "topped with caviar".

*Krispy Kreme donuts* -- an American "classic"

*boba (bubble) tea* -- with those little tapioca balls

*balsamic vinegar* -- yep, over-rated, overused and, most importantly, mis-used; there's almost nothing sold in markets and used at restaurants that is true aged balsamic vinegar; what passes for it is criminal. I'm thinking too many people are caught up in the Emperor's-New-Clothes syndrome.

*darkest chocolate* -- how many ways can this be used?

*garlic!!* -- overused. I'm Italian and I love garlic but gimme a break.

*raw oysters* -- if they're so tasty, why does everyone swallow them as quickly as they can?

*martinis *-- we drank them in the forties and fifties to get drunk and we're doing exactly the same now.

*saffron* -- a teensy-tinesy bit goes a LONG way. I"ve had too many risottos that tasted like vacuum cleaner mold.

Somebody needs to start a thread that asks for everyone's opinion on the next "new food". What direction do you think we are going or should be going?

Joe


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

That sounds good to me :smiles:


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## ritzy (Jan 18, 2010)

Caviar, all types, its just salty poppy stuff that comes in two colours. I mean what else can you do with it but plop it on a biscuit and decorate with something interesting? It seems to me that it is a safe way to impress but doesnt require any culinary skills. Way, way over rated in my opinion.


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

I'm with you on this one. I think that some things are valued because they're expensive. If they were cheap they wouldn't be valued. (Lobster - which i do like, by the way - used to be fed to prisoners in New England, because they were so plentiful, cheap and disgusting-looking). (I might add, now, seriously, doesn't a louis vuitton bag really look like cheap printed plastic? Before i knew better, I actually thought they were only sold by street vendors and were ugly cheap bags. But don;t let me get into fashion, where people actually pay more to wear someone else's name visibly on their clothes and do advertising for them! Amazing what we can get people to do.)

Anyway, don't anchovies have more flavor than caviar? True, they lack the pop, which is cute and pleasant, but if i had to choose between a piece of bread with caviar or one with an anchovy, i'd take the anchovy for serious flavor.


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## dillonsmimi (Dec 2, 2009)

I live on the Texas coast and get the freshest shrimp there is. I eat it two ways...fried and stuffed with crab meat dressing and fried. IMHO, shrimp does not belong in caesar salad or creamy sauce on pasta. (no matter what Bubba said).


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## chefray (Sep 29, 2009)

Totally with you on Saffron, and it's my favorite spice. People don't realize that you only need one stigma for a whole table eating the same thing.

I can't come on board with Martinis, however. I will say that the *word *Martini gets thrown around too much. What I mean is, no apple vodka and some green crap is not an apple martini. That's an apple ... well... something else. A Martini is Gin,(and if you really want to mess it up, Vodka, but I'll let that slide) Vermouth, and olives. That's it.


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## ritzy (Jan 18, 2010)

I agree about the flavor, and one needs so little anchovy to get that flavor, well put. And the fashion thing, well my husband even refuses to carry a supermarket bag with their logo on it, if they charge for it, he turns it inside out before filling it with groceries.:smiles:


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

The white anchovies of the Mediterranean are incredible, plump, tender & salty, perfect with a couple capers on toast and a glass of dry Sherry. I do actually enjoy caviar. Not all the nonsense they call caviar, but the occasional osetra on toast with a Brut or cold vodka works for me. And oysters. I can't imagine sitting at the beachcomber over looking the Atlantic without a couple dozen Wellfletts with lemon,Tabasco and a healthy turn of black pepper. One mans garbage is another's treasure


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## gnnairda (Aug 7, 2009)

Wasabi,
people try to get clever with wasabi to add a "asian twist" like Wasabi Coleslaw when the original taste much better and more refreshing.


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

this is completely personal (but that's what taste is, right?) but i just can't get what's so great about champagne. I guess my palate is not that refined. True I'm not a big wine fancier, though there are some wines i can enjoy, even snobby ones (some friends brought us brunello di montalcino and it actually WAS good) and it;s not the bubbles because I can enjoy a prosecco, but what is it about champagne that is supposed to be so great? (For me it's claim to fame, setting it aside from other wines, is the stomach ache it induces and its unbearable dryness?) I guess i'm missing something, right?


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Just the mention of the word krispy kreme gets me salivating. I hate to admit but I'd rather eat these than the fanciest dessert from the top pastry chef in paris. Don't ask me why, I just love them. Of course, this might be because krispy kreme donuts are not available anywhere near or around where I live.

I find it difficult to misuse a wonderful ingredient like balsamic. It's wonderful for salads and for cooking and making syrup.

If you don't want your chocolate just pass it down to me and I will make use of it.

Raw oysters are very tasty if you put them in your mouth and chew them a little before you swallow. I see absolutely no reason to douse them in sauces and vinegars to mask their flavor. At best they only can withstand a little freshly squeezed lemon juice to enhance them. If you feel the need to glob on salsa on a raw oyster then you shouldn't be eating them.


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## dillonsmimi (Dec 2, 2009)

Going OT here...Sept 2008 Hurricane Ike hits Galveston and Bolivar Peninsula...never an "official" missing and presumed dead count. This winter...no oysters to be harvested in the bays surrounding areas. Yeach.


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## voodoochyl (Feb 1, 2010)

French roasted coffee. It tastes burned to me. I don't understand why you would want to drink a cup of burned flavor coffee. Save your money by buying cheap coffee and leaving it on the element for six hours...


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

A good French roast (which excludes Starbuck's) should be more redolent of caramel than char. Poorly done dark roasts (Starbuck's especially) tend to be the other way around. A lot depends on your grinding and brewing method. Some respond better to very dark roasts than others. 

With a cafetiere (aka "French press) using a coarse grind as it must, it's pretty much the darker the better. Espresso machines using a very fine grind, are very intolerant of dark coffees and will brew them very bitter. 

It can get very nuanced. For instance, I find that using a gold filter in our Cuisinart "pour-over" makes medium-dark roasts insipid and very dark roasts desirable; while a paper filter will do medium-dark perfectly well and is too revealing of a dark roast's burnt character.

With all of that, I'm don't mean to impose standards -- and certainly not my personal tastes. You're certainly entitled to not like dark roasts. Just sayin' is all.

BDL


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

_A good French roast (which excludes Starbuck's) _

And while we're on the subject of over-rated, Starbucks certainly comes in at the head of the list.

Ya gotta applaud the marketing and PR folks who sold the American public on the idea that badly roasted, ground, and brewed coffee, combined with milk foam, is not only worth drinking but desirable.


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## dillonsmimi (Dec 2, 2009)

(Starbucks) is now paying the piper. I see closures all over town. Way too much competition. Isn't the American free enterprise system grand?

My beef is cilantro. It seems to be in everything. I can tolerate the cooked form, but don't enjoy it raw in every dish on the menu. Tastes like soap IMO.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

I've never liked the smell or taste of coffee. At one company, my office was across the hall from the kitchen. They would make a French Roast that was popular there though i can't judge if it was good or bad. All I know is that it smelled to me like a paper lunch sack with a day old tuna fish sandwich in it. 

Vile.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

I used to think that cilantro tastes like soap, too. Now I love it! I put cilantro on everything. I think one reason is because I've been opening up to Mexican and South East Asian cuisines. I don't even bother cutting cilantro anymore, I just tear leaves from the bunch and put them on top of what I eat. 

I would never cook cilantro. Add minced cilantro to a hot indian curry and mix just before serving it, ok, but not cook it. It kinda loses its flavor (which might be why you can then withstand it if you don't like that flavor). In fact if I reheat leftover curry I'll add some fresh cilantro just before serving, gives it a fresh taste.


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## schmoozer (Jan 10, 2010)

I love day old tuna sandwiches on stale bread. Yummmy yum yum.

Schmoozer


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

French Coffee.....its not so bad...I cannot drink coffee or tea after 7:00 or else it keeps me up, I must be getting old.


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## homemadecook (Jan 27, 2010)

bacon. fried chicken. spaghetti


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Cinnamon with apple. Sometimes, just sometimes, I wish I could have a good slice of apple pie WITHOUT the freakin' cinnamon. There's usually way too much of it anyway.


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

HomeMadeCook,

Bacon 

spaghetti   pasta......if that is the case.....life is just not worth.....:look:....homemade pasta....hanging to dry on racks in my kitchen.....Oh my. Please give me hope.


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

:lol::lol: I'm with you there, petals. I make pasta too.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Pasta carbonara anyone? :lol:


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## chefray (Sep 29, 2009)

lunch tomorrow.:smoking:


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

Okay, you guys hit a BIG nerve here...

*bacon: *real bacon is very good, but when did America decide that everything is better with bacon, and that you're a real foodie if every time you hear the word you go, "mmmm, bacon"?

*flavored coffee: *for people who don't like coffee but just want a speed lift - at ludicrous prices because they buy from Starbuck's et al.

*sourdough: *once in a while, sourdough bread - made from a real sourdough culture, mind you - is pretty good. But why do I have to bend over backwards to get decent bread that isn't?

*"artisan bread": *which invariably isn't. Or rather, "artisan bread" seems to come in two varieties: made sorta competently by a chain store and made truly badly by a small artisan who believes that being ecologically friendly and left-wing must make your bread good. I've seen loaves the size of my two hands that weighed several pounds because the wonderful artisan didn't understand about rising and raising. And of course, all of it is sourdough.

*wasabi that ain't: *if you're serving green-dyed horseradish, go ahead, but say so. Don't market stuff as wasabi that is not wasabi. I rather like wasabi, and I also like horseradish, and I object to someone trying to charge me more for the latter packaged as the former. I object even more to the same people doing this because it makes things more "asian."

*tuna: *good tuna is very expensive, unsustainable, and basically not the most interesting fish anyway. It became a huge deal in Japan largely because it survives deep-freezing remarkably well, and thus is one of a small number of deep-sea fish that can be brought to the kitchen essentially perfectly fresh. There also used to be zillions of them. Now everyone wants to serve the stuff cooked dead rare but covered with a huge amount of spice, so what little meaty taste the tuna had is completely covered up. If you want to heavily crust your fish and broil it superhot and raw inside, you want a much oilier fish like katsuo (bonito).

*cinnamon-pumpkin: *the same people who order the flavored coffees always seem to go for anything flavored with cinnamon and pumpkin. I don't like cinnamon anyway, but I grant that this is a personal pecadillo. But why must you turn every late-autumn dish into mediocre dessert?

*panko: *get over it, it's bread crumbs, OK? Pan - from the Portuguese for bread. Ko - flour, little bits, etc. Literally "bread crumbs." True, they're made in a way that makes them especially resistant to absorbing huge amounts of oil, and I see why you'd want this when frying and the like. Fair enough. But putting the term "panko" on the menu just panders to foodie fashion.

*cocktails: *I like cocktails, don't get me wrong, but when did everyone suddenly decide it was cool and clever again? When did it become sane to treat bartenders as experts instead of guys who memorize some recipes and pour stuff at inflated prices?

*sake: *I adore good sake. Excellent sake should cost roughly $20-$25 per bottle. That includes more than $5 per bottle for import and duties. If you are paying more, or what you get at this price isn't excellent, you are getting ripped off by the importers.

*gourmet water, flavored and otherwise: *I've never actually done it, but when a waiter comes around and offers me my choice of bottled waters, not offering tap, I always want to ask whether everything in the kitchen is cooked with bottled water too, and whether the health inspector knows that the water supply to the restaurant is unsanitary. If the water is clean enough to make soup, why is it not good enough for me to drink? Oh - and I assume, of course, if I'm paying $5 for water, that the ice cubes are made from the same water, right? (I will pass over the horror of "water menus" and "water stewards," because I have only read about these and never seen them.)

*Angus beef: *nice stuff, but when McDonald's starts selling something, it's overdone. Besides, with beef it really is more about how you treat it than the breed.

Other pecadilloes, while I'm on the subject. (I feel like Andy Rooney...)

Please, is it really necessary to write every menu entry in which a very small number of nouns are modified by very long adjectival clauses? In other words, for those of you who don't remember your grammar, "panko-crusted pan-seared Niman ranch organic pork butt shoulder loin, garnished with Washington Farms organic white curly endive, local organic farm-raised purple shiitake mushrooms in a Molto Drecko aged balsamic vinegar glaze reduction, served on a perfect slice of home-toasted whole-grain artisan sourdough cinnamon bread." How about "seared pork on toast with endive and mushrooms"?

"Au jus" is not a noun. Nothing can be served "with au jus." Nothing can be served "with its own au jus."

Running a blowtorch over something does not make it good.

Going "eeew" when someone mentions anchovies is not cute or clever. Please stop using this as a plot point for your so-called comedy programs.

"Cajun" does not mean "burn your mouth off spicy." Nor does it mean blackened. Conversely, "blackened" is not a piece of fakery, so don't try to show off how clever and jaded you are by trashing it as inauthentic: if Paul Prudhomme invents a method of cooking and thinks it's very Cajun, I don't think you really want to argue with him.

Showing off at sushi bars is almost invariably a demonstration of idiocy. Sushi is about rice, not fish. Sushi fish is not especially traditionally raw. Sashimi is rarely cut thin. Most people outside Japan who have eaten a great deal of sushi have never eaten wasabi. Sake can be served cold or hot as you prefer; hot should be hotter than blood temperature, but not all that much more. Sushi chefs who make a fuss about doing things traditionally or their way are an insult to their profession. The only rule you should observe is that you should dip the topping and not the rice if you choose to dip it at all. Mixing fresh wasabi with soy sauce is silly, because you can't taste the wasabi that way, but it's fine with the fake stuff that is all you get anyway - but it's by no means required. Dip as much or as little as you like; sure, if you can't taste the fish, that's no good, but everyone's palate is different, so whatever. Bear in mind that the soy sauce, like the wasabi, is terrible. But then again, the fish is probably terrible too because it's probably frozen (at least if you're not on the West Coast).

Oh - and sushi is not a cuisine. It's a dish. Get over it.

Simplicity. Honestly, could foodie people - including chefs - stop it about how everything is about simple things cooked simply? I happen to like gumbo; I gather all foodies hate it, because it defies these definitions? And frankly, stock isn't simple. Neither is bread, actually, though few ingredients go into it. Sure, 8 zillion ingredients cooked together into smoosh isn't good, usually, but once again, have you been to Louisiana? What do you think etouffee is, anyway?

Last but not least, I hate the word "authentic" used as a term of approbation in almost all foodie talk. Take sushi: if sushi as almost anyone - even in Japan - knows it today is "authentic" Japanese food, then so is fried chicken. If on the other hand you mean something that goes back quite a ways and is somehow in tune with a culture's fundamental roots, whatever that might mean, then there is no such thing as authentic Chinese, Indian, Mexican, or Italian food - just for starters. Have you ever noticed that on food programs about chefs - the stuff they run on Food Network for example - they're always on at chefs to cook something that shows "who you are," which means reflects their cultural heritage. Why? Do Chinese people cook Chinese food better? Which kind? I mean, if your family goes back umpty-zillion years in Shanghai, are you allowed to cook Sichuan? If you're fourth-generation Chinese and basically grew up in a French restaurant, are you allowed to cook French? If you're French, can you take up influences from Southeast Asia, and if you do so, does that make you an imperialist supporter of Indochine and so forth? Is Vongerichten a fake? Keller is from Florida; is he a fake for doing French? Would you prefer that he cook the stuff they serve at Disney World? That would be more authentic, and would really show who he is, right?


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Hmmm, pumpkin cinammon flavored coffee... drooling!


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

WOW Chris...you said a mouthful! :lol: 


This thread sure is funny, especially when someone describes your favorite ingredient as overrated. Come'on, bacon! pasta...chocolate! 

Overated? says you, I say 

Hmmmm......


Cooking in season isn't a revelation, it's common sense! Do we really have to brag that we're wearing snowboots when there's a foot of snow on the ground? 


dan


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Oh...one more.


the term "foodie"














eace:


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Don't hold back, Chris. Tell us what you really think. eace:


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

That's the thing, it's so individual.
And what's more, I like the things _*I*_ say are over-rated, let alone what *others* say is over-rated.
I love sourdough bread and clam chowder.
But living in Nor Cal, I see it everywhere.
So, in Texas it might not be over-rated, but here it's done to death.
I think it's a rare person here who isn't at least occasionally eating what's on their list.
Their just not doing handsprings for it. :roll:


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

Unsalted butter. 

Unsalted anything for that matter. 
King Lear refused his daughter Cordelia for rating him as dear as salt to her. He was, obviously, mad. 

I don't see its use in cooking either, since I, at least, use salt in every single thing I cook, sweet or savory - try a few grains in your hot chocolate and see what it does for the flavor - so why use unsalted butter in a sweet dish? (And please, don't tell me the precise measure of salt is thrown off - some salts have other substances added, and others don't, some have big grains and others have small. So you won't get a precise measure anyway.


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## bughut (Aug 18, 2007)

OMEGA 3... The food industry is really taking the mick. Targetting kids food especially. Since the hype started, products that even contain tiny trace amounts of omega 3 are now being marketed as having health benefits. Its been proven tho that, in general, there isnt anywhere near enough to make any real difference. There are so many natural ways to eat Omega 3.

GREEN TEA... I love it. White tea too.But why does everything have to be infused with it. Deserts, juices etc.

SEA BASS FILLETS...This is a local gripe... Restaurants all over town serve them one way or another. But there is only one i know of that serves them whole. I love whole fish. but in general, I find its just Asian places that serve them.


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

You might be interested in reading this Bughut

Ben Goldacre: Omega-3 and kids? It still smells fishy | Science | The Guardian

Ben Goldacre is both smart and funny


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## teresa (Mar 3, 2008)

You guys have made my day. Around here I am considered a good cook. I have enter contests and usually win. However I have been beating myself up, because I feel what I cook is ordinary. I came from a family of 14 and we used the cheapest of everything. I have never figured out why filet mignon, and seabass are considered so special. I grew up on catfish, bullheads and even carp. Someone mentioned cabbage rolls. They are like a staple in our home. I garden and raise a lot of cabbage. In the summer we make cabbage rolls up in batches of 50, freeze individually and then bag. I have grown adult kids, stopping and picking up cabbage rolls at least once a month. As far as corn fed beef, well I have to disagree. And bacon, well I like it to flavor very specific things , but I think it is used sometimes to cover up some pretty bad cooking. Truffles, as in chocolate , hey be careful. Even though I personally don't care for chocolate, that is my Christmas money . I fill over 1000 orders every Christmas


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2008)

I lost my reply! Bugger!!! I missed Miss Mullet...need to press a button...:mullet:

Anyway...I agree with sushi being overrated...Chris...and everything you said, especially the menu description, like I care whether Angus is a cow or Fleur de sel is a kind of salt in my food...chocolates? overrated? hmmm...maybe...I stopped eating them because I am allergic to chocolates believe it or not...and gonefish' "foodie" is a cinch. Must be an Australian word invention where everything have to have a "ies" at the end of a word :lol: sorry DC Sunshine...I once thought DH some words in Oz have to have an 'ie' or 'ies' at the end and when he started using it, he practically told everyone who is willing to listen he can speak Aussie words fluently even with an American accent....:mullet:


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

Yes -- the issue for me isn't "what's no good?" but "what's overdone?" I like most of the things on my list, but I get very tired of seeing them become ubiquitous, pushed as the "hot" thing. 60 years ago, in French cuisine, truffles were overdone, in the sense that every _haute cuisine_ preparation had to have them, whether it made sense or not. Someone's mentioned that caviar is overdone, and I'd agree, based on what I see and read about -- the places I eat don't use it, so I don't carp about it. But are caviar or truffles not wonderful things? Of course they are. I think so, anyway. I just don't think they should appear in everything.

Thus my carping about sushi. I like sushi, though I like sashimi better. But when sushi is being sold, refrigerated, at WalMart, it's overdone. I like fake wasabi -- I'm fine with that. But please don't charge me extra for green-dyed horseradish because it's a specialty ingredient, you know? At one point it looked like yuzu was going to be overdone, but somehow it dropped out, at least from what I see going. Good -- it's just another little citrus fruit, full of seeds, with a mildly interesting taste. Not something to get wound up about.


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## broncoboxer (Feb 6, 2010)

I concur. Cilantro, in my opinion, is repulsive. I understand lots of people love it. I don't.


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