# Sachertorte troubles



## Jing Nan Cheong (Oct 9, 2020)

I've been trying to make the glaze for sachertorte without much success.

According to Hotel Vien's website, the glaze is made by combining a cooked sugar syrup with chocolate. But since the real recipe for the cake is top secret, the approximated recipe is very sketchy. There is no temperature for the sugar syrup - it just says "boil for 5 minutes". That really bugged me.

I decided to do trial and error with ganache properties and the sugar syrup temperature to try and work out what the trick was to the glaze. I came up with a theory through some math that to make a truffle ganache (which I assume is the ganache closest in setting properties to the glaze), the cocoa butter content in the chocolate and the water content in the liquid added must be around 50 : 50 (please tell me if my theory is wrong). If that's the case, the sugar syrup must be cooked to a certain temperature where the water content must match the cocoa butter content in the chocolate used. That's where I hit a snag. I tried 234 F but the syrup was too thick to even stir and when chocolate was added in, it immediately seized. I wanted to try temperatures lower than 234 F, but the sugar cooking temperature range I use (link down below) doesn't go below 230 F. It'll probably be just syrups below that, but it'll be nice to have a calculation for sugar percentage in relation to temperature so I could accurately calculate the amount of ingredients I need.

If anyone has any ideas on how to solve this problem, please respond! If there's anything that I'm missing, which I probably am, please also mention it. The link down below are the sugar cooking chart I use, the recipe for the Sachertorte, and a short video which shows what the glaze is supposed to look like.

https://www.exploratorium.edu/cooking/candy/sugar-stages.html

https://www.sacher.com/en/original-sacher-torte/recipe/





 (skip to 1:16)


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

I used Valrhona 67% cocoa butter so I do not believe it's your ratio. 
The no temperature for the syrup thing is something you end up finding yourself through trial and hopefully very few errors. That's because boiling sugar syrup is not a perfect science. You can read anything you want on the subject but the fact is recipes are just guidelines.
What the video does not show is the stirring in an ice bath or heating in the bowl over water.
I've got some experience in chocolate work couverture. Tell me what problems you are experiencing.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

The time and temp is correct. Try a different technique: Put all of your ingredients in pot and bring to temp. Thick-bottomed pot; high heat; accurate thermometer; stir, stir, stir. Then take off the heat and stir for about a minute to stabilize. Immediately pour over your torte.

don’t thank me because I learned that from Rick Rodgers. 

By adding the chocolate to the hot syrup, the syrup cooled too fast and was brought to its final consistency... a rather thick syrup.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

... and this is not likely a problem for you, but start with tempered chocolate.


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## Seoul Food (Sep 17, 2018)

Jing Nan Cheong said:


> I've been trying to make the glaze for sachertorte without much success.
> 
> According to Hotel Vien's website, the glaze is made by combining a cooked sugar syrup with chocolate. But since the real recipe for the cake is top secret, the approximated recipe is very sketchy. There is no temperature for the sugar syrup - it just says "boil for 5 minutes". That really bugged me.
> 
> ...


Can't tell what looks better, the torte of all the copper cookware.


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## Jing Nan Cheong (Oct 9, 2020)

chefross said:


> I used Valrhona 67% cocoa butter so I do not believe it's your ratio.
> The no temperature for the syrup thing is something you end up finding yourself through trial and hopefully very few errors. That's because boiling sugar syrup is not a perfect science. You can read anything you want on the subject but the fact is recipes are just guidelines.
> What the video does not show is the stirring in an ice bath or heating in the bowl over water.
> I've got some experience in chocolate work couverture. Tell me what problems you are experiencing.


Once I've boiled the sugar syrup to 234 F, I added the chocolate, but the entire mixture seized. Then I read that I had to cool it down a bit before I added the chocolate, I did just that, but the syrup just got too thick and when I added the chocolate it still seized.


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## Jing Nan Cheong (Oct 9, 2020)

brianshaw said:


> The time and temp is correct. Try a different technique: Put all of your ingredients in pot and bring to temp. Thick-bottomed pot; high heat; accurate thermometer; stir, stir, stir. Then take off the heat and stir for about a minute to stabilize. Immediately pour over your torte.
> 
> don't thank me because I learned that from Rick Rodgers.
> 
> By adding the chocolate to the hot syrup, the syrup cooled too fast and was brought to its final consistency... a rather thick syrup.


I'll try that. The technique you suggested sounds a lot like something a 16 year old apprentice would do so maybe that's actually the trick?


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## Jing Nan Cheong (Oct 9, 2020)

Seoul Food said:


> Can't tell what looks better, the torte of all the copper cookware.


Ikr they're so beautiful 😍


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Jing Nan Cheong said:


> I'll try that. The technique you suggested sounds a lot like something a 16 year old apprentice would do so maybe that's actually the trick?


I have no idea what you mean by that... it is the technique used by master pastry chefs.


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## Jing Nan Cheong (Oct 9, 2020)

brianshaw said:


> I have no idea what you mean by that... it is the technique used by master pastry chefs.


Sachertorte was supposedly invented by chef apprentice Franz Sacher who was put in charge of making dessert when prince Metternich was visiting in 1832. The boy was only 16 when he first made this cake, that's what I was referencing.


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## Jing Nan Cheong (Oct 9, 2020)

Jing Nan Cheong said:


> Sachertorte was supposedly invented by chef apprentice Franz Sacher who was put in charge of making dessert when prince Metternich was visiting in 1832. The boy was only 16 when he first made this cake, that's what I was referencing.


And btw, what is this chocolate-sugar syrup glaze actually called? It's the first of it's kind that I've seen anywhere.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Context now understood. The chocolate topping is a ganache... although some might disagree since the most common ganache is chocolate and dairy cream.


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## Jing Nan Cheong (Oct 9, 2020)

brianshaw said:


> Context now understood. The chocolate topping is a ganache.


Really? I thought there'd be a more specific name linked to this ganache like that of fruit or egg ganache.
No matter, I'll try this method you suggested. Thank you!


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Jing Nan Cheong said:


> Really? I thought there'd be a more specific name linked to this ganache like that of fruit or egg ganache.
> No matter, I'll try this method you suggested. Thank you!


You made me think... and check a few books. More properly: faux fondant or pastry fondant or confectionary fondant.

Calling it a ganache was lazy On my part. Sorry.


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## Jing Nan Cheong (Oct 9, 2020)

brianshaw said:


> You made me think... and check a few books. More properly: faux fondant.


Omg thank you!


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## Jing Nan Cheong (Oct 9, 2020)

brianshaw said:


> You made me think... and check a few books. More properly: faux fondant.


Seems more like it! But the chocolate faux fondant I'm used to making is by combining just slightly warmed fondant with melted chocolate. Idk how different the result will be by actually cooking the sugar syrup and chocolate together.
Oh well, we shall see!


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

That sounds like it should work too. I never did it that way but seem to recall a method like that in Grewling’s Chocolates and Confections. You should check that reference! The “faux” way is what always works for me when making eclairs. From Rodgers Kaffehaus... another really good reference for pastry. Bringing the mass to 238 is same as when pre-making (and reusing) fondant.


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## Jing Nan Cheong (Oct 9, 2020)

brianshaw said:


> That sounds like it should work too. I never did it that way but seem to recall a method like that in Grewling's Chocolates and Confections. You should check that reference! The "faux" way is what always works for me when making eclairs. From Rodgers Kaffehaus... another really good reference for pastry. Bringing the mass to 238 is same as when pre-making (and reusing) fondant.


I miss Chef Greweling 😭 he was fun in chocolates class.
And won't heating the fondant back to its boiling heat just melt off the sugar crystals that's been deliberately crystallized?


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## smaakmakerij (Dec 12, 2021)

Have you checked the website recipe lately? They have a "tip" box regarding adjustments for the glaze.


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