# Darn all the new stoves.



## oldtimeytim (Jul 14, 2012)

Okay, here's the deal. I have a crappy old GE gas range that's shot and I have, at the most, about $2500 to spend on a new one. I cooked on restaurant stoves long enough to know that I sure don't want one in my house. The "professional" stoves made for homes are mighty pretty but I haven't read a good review of one yet. The more moderate priced stoves that get good reviews have all kinds of digital crap which I don't want. I found out when I used one of these new ones that they have a built in cooling fan that goes on and stays on-forever, it seems-until the circuits cool down. The fan drove me nuts.

So...is there ANYTHING out there without those damn digital touchpads that's a decent stove and doesn't cost a fortune to buy or repair? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

I was in the same boat (or similar boat) a couple of years ago. After thoroughly researching, I ended up buying a 30" American Range Classic. Couldn't be happier. Slightly above your budget, but not too much.


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## oldtimeytim (Jul 14, 2012)

Hey French,

Thanks for the reply. I've seen a bit of talk about the American ranges. They sure look good. Does yours look like it would be easy to service? One of my problems is that I live in the North Carolina mountains and if something goes wrong I have to do extra duty to get it repaired. Or do it myself.

But I appreciate the info. I'll definitely check it out.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

OK. Here you go. < $500. Does everything as good as any other stove I've ever used. It's plain, boring, has no bells/whistles.


[h1]Kenmore 30'' Freestanding Gas Range[/h1]


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## oldtimeytim (Jul 14, 2012)

Yep. That looks pretty much exactly like the old GE range that I have now. The only money I ever had to put into it was to replace the igniters every couple of years which I learned to do myself. Mostly I have to replace it now because I've killed off the whole bottom of the oven doing high temperature steam bread baking. But you're right IceMan, it does the job.

Thanks


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

oldtimeytim said:


> Does yours look like it would be easy to service?


Hmmm.. hard to tell.. how do I tell? I've never had to service it so I honestly don't know. I am lucky to live in the city where they are manufactured so I guess that may make it easier to service...


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## colin (Sep 12, 2011)

I have no experience with them, but American Range has come in for criticism on quality grounds at http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/appl/. That forum might also be a useful place to post your question.


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## chefdave11 (Oct 27, 2011)

I had never heard of American Range until a specific issue while building our catering kitchen led me to them for convection ovens.  While I can only speak about my experience with this particular item in a commercial kitchen, I look forward to one day soon having a house and equipping it with American Range items - I drooled over them when researching the brand.

I have not had any quality issues with my stacked, bakery-depth convection ovens.  We did have installation issues as the plumber didn't set the regulators - but then, they screwed us on a bunch of basic plumbing issues, too.  These ovens are my workhorses.  From the get-go I realized how solidly they were built, functional design, comes apart easily enough for major cleaning.  Commercially speaking, these have been under the radar forever, but I'm now a huge fan.  With some of the big names out there, all you're paying that extra money for is the nameplate.

There will always be issues when enough of something is produced and enough different people have experiences.  Just look at all the reviews on Amazon - they run the gamut from 1 star to 5 for the same item.

I love my American Range (convection oven) and would recommend it as a quality brand.


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## oldtimeytim (Jul 14, 2012)

Hey ChefDave,

Yeah, I realize that now that it's possible to read every opinion in the world about something there are going to be plenty of negative as well as positive experiences about any piece of equipment. My concern is not with the American Range company's commercial line but with the residential stuff. That's where a lot of these companies get into trouble. Certainly I never had any trouble with any of the Garlands I used in the last place I worked. As a matter of fact, if Garland still did a residential line I'd check into those, for sure. But surely, a company like American should be able to build something that beats the crap out of something like a GE. And yet, when you check out sites like Consumer Reports the GE ranges come out on top and the American is almost at the bottom. Mostly I'd just like to try a few of these stoves out but, damn, if I can figure out a way to do it.


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## chefdave11 (Oct 27, 2011)

I hear your dilemma.  Even if we discount CR as being "not very independent", and to a certain extent, a popularity contest, you'd still be left with "I don't know a single person who has an American Range residential piece of equipment!".  Also, I think the ratings may also have to do with low expectations for GE (easily achieved, or close to it) and friggin' high expectations for AR (achievable provided they're realistic and the person using it understands how to get the most out of it.)

That was actually exactly my concern when trying to research these convection ovens.  I spoke to the company and they put me in touch with 3 people who had this oven in their operations.  Once I spoke to the 1st guy, I didn't have to go any further.  While I got the names from the company themselves, I took it for granted that once speaking on the phone to them, I'd get honesty.  I asked the pointed questions and was more than satisfied with the information I got.

Maybe you can do something similar through an AR distributor?  

I know you're the one buying this, but my feelings are that American Range does what they do well - commercial or residential.  They seem like solid, well-made pieces of equipment, without all the bells-and-whistles people think they love.  Look at how simplistic their designs are, while still incorporating new baking technologies!  So they're no circuit boards to get fried, etc.

Good luck!  And I'm interested to know how it all works out.

*1 disclaimer*  I have never seen, much less used any American Range residential equipment.  But their commercial line blew me away to such a degree that I now have such faith in the quality of all their equipment.**


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

OK. I gotta ask ... How does one range _"beat the crap"_ out of any other range? _*TIA*_ for educating me on this concept.


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## chefdave11 (Oct 27, 2011)

IceMan said:


> OK. I gotta ask ... How does one range _"beat the crap"_ out of any other range? _*TIA*_ for educating me on this concept.


Faster heating, more even baking, less heat escaping. Better sealed burners, more powerful BTUs, legitimate simmer setting. Easier to clean, easier to hide spills. Heavier duty/longer lasting.

That'd be my definition, anyways.


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## oldtimeytim (Jul 14, 2012)

ChefDave,

Thanks for taking the time to give me your thoughts. Very helpful. I think when it comes down to the reviews of residential stoves, people think, "the more, the better," when actually it's the other way around. I watched a friend of mine with a new Electrolux try for 15 minutes to turn the oven on. He finally had to go to the manual. I don't think you should need a manual to turn on an oven. I want a knob with some temp marks on it. I don't think a lot of people realize just how basic restaurant equipment is. Most people seem to want their home kitchens to look like restaurant kitchens these days. Why?...I have no idea.

In any case, I know I'm in the minority when it comes to a lot of this stuff. But I'm gonna keep plugging. I'll definitely check out the American line. I really liked the looks of them on their site. Maybe a bit expensive for me. But I'll come up with the cash if it turns out one of these is the best for me.

Meanwhile...anyone out there near Asheville, NC with an American? I'll cook you dinner if I can try it out.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

OK. Thanks for that. 

What _*I*_ know, is that in _*My*_ house, my < $500 Kenmore cooks things just fine. It does all that stuff you said just fine too. To tell you the truth, I don't really think that for the +/- $3000 difference, standing side by side in any home kitchen, you or anyone else could tell any real difference in regards to actually cooking something. _Could I be wrong?_ ... Oh yeah, sure I could. But I don't think so. Not for +/- $3000 anyway. It amazes me that among so many people claiming to be professionals in the culinary industry, anything _inexpensive_ is garbage and the only good products are those over-the-top expensive. _Yeah, I could be wrong there too._ I'm also the guy that thinks _"Chef"_ is only a vocabulary word. *WTFDIK?* _LOL._


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## chefdave11 (Oct 27, 2011)

I'm certainly not of a spoiled mindset where it's only good if it's expensive - At ALL!  I worked for a caterer in the basement of a synagogue, preparing food for 300 at times using 2 "NYC apartment-style" Magic Chef Ranges/ovens.  I couldn't fit a full-size sheetpan in there and often used the "shelf" right above the gas burner to sear and caramelize.   Yeah, I cooked some pretty damn good food - but the equipment I have now....Buh-LOWS that away.  Easier, more efficient, and often enable the quality to be better - aside from the fact that those dinky ranges/ovens did limit menu, to an extent.  Oh, and bringing a pot of water to boil - starting with cold water as the hot water tank was a mini - man, I had to start that first thing in the morning if I wanted it boiling by noon!

I should have just stated that any residential range that can handle full sheetpans is a crap-kicker in my book!

Overall capacity is another crap-kicker.  especially when you have 6 racks in usable positions at the same time!

...A boy can dream.....

And yes, IceMan, the extra cost does need to be justifiable.  A $600 Kenmore isn't even in consideration.  But if you're going from a $1600 GE to a $3K American Range or other, it's not as big of a jump, and provided the finances are there, it's a fun decision to have to make!


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

LOL. Try comparing apples to apples maybe.

_*+/- $3,500*_vs. _*< $500*_

That just aint'e the same as whatever you used in the basement of your synagogue. Now I'm happy for you that you were able to do what you did. I think that's a good thing. And I'm also happy for you that you are now in a position to afford and buy those things that you like. Go for it. It's all good. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin', that item for item, all other things being equal, I don't think you, me or anyone else is gonna cook anything better on your stove or mine. That's just my opinion though. _*YMMV*_.


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## oldtimeytim (Jul 14, 2012)

IceMan & ChefDave,

I pretty much agree with both of you. Hell, I've been cooking good meals on my old GE for 12 years. I did a damn wedding party for 40 with the thing. We all know that once you get your cooking chops down you use whatever is in front of you and do a good job with it. I just would like something at this point in my life that does a really great job and makes me happy while I'm doing it.

BTW, an old friend of mine is a kitchen designer in NYC. (No, I haven't gotten in touch with him. I'm kind of afraid to.) He told me once that he was designing kitchens for multi-million buck apartments in the city. The latest thing is to have TWO kitchens. One on an upper floor that's a utilitarian kitchen. That is, straight professional stuff. That's for the caterers. No one ever sees that kitchen. Then there's the main floor kitchen. That's where the Le Cornue goes. The caterers bring the food down from the upper kitchen and keep it warm with the Cornue. Now THAT'S b.s.!


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## chefdave11 (Oct 27, 2011)

First off, that Kenmore is very basic (not a bad thing), but not so dissimilar from the Magic Chef (ha, the irony in that as I had to pull some magic!).

Not always about "better tasting food".

Cooking 6 things at once, getting everything baked in one batch instead of 3....

Efficiency is time; time is money; yada yada...do the math.

Absence of frustration is... Happiness?  Can't put a value on that.

For the record, in outfitting our kitchen, we decided that we would buy quality equipment (Once) professionally, but I have literally nothing personally.

Price not being an issue, don't tell me you wouldn't rather have an American Range in your kitchen instead of the Kenmore!


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

*LOL.* A 30" range, any way you want to dress it, up is still only 30". You can only cook so many things on so much space. Efficiency in comparison is right there equal to comparing chrome w/ white. The flames come out, things get hot. In the six(6) or so years I've had my the only frustration is not having an over-head salamander. The _American_ doesn't have that either, so I guess there's no frustration. LOL. All things said ... I'd rather have +/- $3000 in my pocket. And on-top-of-that ... if I was buying a new range w/ no price conditions ... I'd get a _BlueStar_, and still have more $$$ in my pocket than you would w/ the _American._ _*LOL.*_ *YMMSV.*


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## chefdave11 (Oct 27, 2011)

Pretty tough to have an over-the-head salamander as part of a residential oven...BUT American Range does feature an infrared broiler. Sure sounds like a salamander to me /img/vbsmilies/smilies/chef.gif. As far as your thoughts on efficiency go, more btu = more faster. Better seals = better heat retention. Better made = quicker heating and quicker reheating after opening. There are quantifiable benchmarks for efficiency. Comparing that to color is just... dismissive.

A car will get you from point A to point B....I'll be efficient and not bother to finish that obvious thoug...


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

OK. Have you ever heard of a _"thermostat"_? 250* for 2 1/2 hours is the same in any range operating properly. I don't know just how many BTU's _anyone else needs at home_, but *I* can use my wok just fine on my _Kenmore_. How many people cook under rush situations at home? Does your _(or anyone else's)_ food taste any different/better being plated in 14-minutes instead of 17-minutes? There had better be a whole lot of difference for $3,000. 

** *_For anyone wondering ... this is a conversation, not an argument. _


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## chefdave11 (Oct 27, 2011)

Speed limit of 65mph.  $12K car versus a $45K car.  No difference?

Of course there's a difference.  Is it a quantifiable $33K difference?

Doesn't really matter.  You can afford the $45K car, you like it, and feel it's worth the money.  That's not to say that the $12K car isn't a viable car.  It is, certainly.

When you have a cake in a 325 degree oven, and you open it up to check on it, by the time the door closes again the temp has dropped over 100 degrees.  yes, the cake will continue to bake just fine, and it'll be good, but with a better oven, the temp will be back up to 325 significantly quicker than a...Kenmore, for example.  Better air circulation in the oven, which can lead to lower gas bills.  There are a lot of benefits built in to  $45,000 cars and $4,000 ovens.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

If you know how to bake a cake, and you know the equipment you are using .......... _You don't need to open up the oven to check._ 

**?* _Why don't you take public transportation and save the $45,000?_ I don't have any issues that need to be satisfied with or by a $45,000 car. I'm secure in/with who I am.


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## colin (Sep 12, 2011)

Iceman, please chill. ChefDave is being impressively tolerant, but you can make your points without being aggressive, and behavior like this discourages others from joining the conversation.

I spent a couple decades in apartments with the basic GE/Kenmore appliances and did a whole lot of cooking and baking. OTOH I'm getting a lot of benefit now from a 30" Culinarian rangetop -- lots of heat when I want it -- and from a spiffy electric oven with a big window. The extra rangetop heat lets me use a wok much more effectively and lets a saute pan get back up to heat faster after stuff goes in it. And yes, the oven window lets me check on stuff because I like making breads I haven't tried before. Plus I like seeing how stuff bakes. Almost as much fun as the washing machine.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Colin said:


> I have no experience with them, but American Range has come in for criticism on quality grounds at http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/appl/. That forum might also be a useful place to post your question.


I had done extensive research before buying, including reading absolutely every single post about American Range home ranges on the gardenweb forum. I found a couple of people complaining, one about their broiler not working past the warranty date and the company refusing to help (personally I don't find this very surprising), another complaining about issues with the ignition which was repaired by the company under warranty. I wouldn't call this "come under criticism on quality grounds". Out of all the brands I've researched (and I've nearly researched any brand you could think of) this is the least amount of criticism I've found about a single company over the internet.

Keep in mind people often go online to report a bad experience, while they don't give a second thought to a good experience. Take myself, for example, I never went on forum, except for this one thread 3 years after my purchase, to make a positive review of my purchase.

I however agree that asking the question over at gardenweb may be a good idea.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

_LOL._ *Colin* _... you be you ... and I'll be me._ Please continue in the conversation of this thread. Do not let me stop you. If *you*, *ChefDave*, *oldtimeytim* or *anyone else* wants, and has the means to buy a $3,500 new stove ... _GO FOR IT_. Make yourself happy. I'm all for that.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

IceMan said:


> [justify]if I was buying a new range w/ no price conditions ... I'd get a _BlueStar_, and still have more $$$ in my pocket than you would w/ the _American._ _*LOL.*_ *YMMSV.*[/justify]


I considered blue star but preferred American Range, mainly based on:

• The AR has better user reviews.

• The blue star burners are kinda cool, but apparently harder to clean? Never had to clean one but when I looked at the assembly the prospect of cleaning them kinda scared me.

• The blue star burners are all the same size. The AR has two large burners, one medium and one small.

• The blue star burners are further away from the pan. While this works in a restaurant range where the BTU hare higher, I question the efficiency in a home range where the BTU is lower. Looks like there would be more heat loss.

• The American Range is a better oven, with a better convection system with two fans and vents to circulate the hot air etc.

• The AR oven is the whole width of the oven, the Blue Star isn't, so the AR oven is wider inside than the BS.

This is from memory, there were probably other reasons... that's at the top of my head.


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## champtus (Mar 12, 2013)

Hey Tim,  I'm also in WNC (AVL), and am looking hard at the AR model you've been shopping.  Lots of time has passed since this thread was active, I know.  I'm wondering what you ended up doing.  My brother has this AR stove and loves it.  He is in Oregon, tho.  I also  have been looking at the Culinarian 30" open-burner model.  It is $1000+ bucks more, and I can't tell why....  I'd appreciate any insight the thread-followers can offer.


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## strander (Jul 14, 2013)

I am in the same boat so to speak...bought a second home and want to replace existing...trying to decide on bluestar, American range and any one know five star? leaning towards a 48 inch range...just looking for something that's not gonna break or have the oven door sieze up and stick or be replaced repeatly like BS seems to be an issue....my heads in a spin reading all the info and blogs..any thoughts are welcome....except from iceman..he seems to have issues..thanks


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## margarita (Jul 28, 2013)

I am debating between a 36 inch 6 OPEN Burner American Range and the Blue Star 36" with Open Burners as well. Any discussion will be appreciated. I am a home cook but it feels like I run a restaurant with as many visitors as I have. The Blue Star has very heavy grates under the burners, like lifting weights to clean. I am leaning towards American Range, less money. It used to be called Garland.


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## centaurita (Aug 10, 2013)

Margarita,

It was Bluestar that purchased the residential range line from Garland. I know this because I have been researching for a long long time time trying to dedide which range to put in our new home when it is finished. However the American Range does have the star shaped burners, also. 

DH wants to put a Garland in our kitchen and I am a bit terrified of having a commercial range in my home kitchen with grandkids running around at holidays, and the fact I already get enough cuts and burns from regular equipment! But-- he's a fireman and says he can make it safe. He cooks a lot at the station and they have a Garland, which he loves.

anyone have any thoughts on putting a Garland in the home kitchen, that can either convince me to go along or convince him to come to my side?! 

We did go to a showroom to look at the Bluestar and the American Range. they didn't have them hooked up and functional though .

Love the Bluestar oven racks! but the price on the American is much more reasonable.

I am with you all who prefer knobs and mechanics rather than electronics on appliances. I love my electronics but I don't want to pay $5000 + for a kitchen appliance, and have to worry about obsolete parts.

Thanks for any info about commercial range in home. (and please, Iceman - take it easy


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

I'd go induction over gas at this point in the market.


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## whiteiris (Aug 16, 2013)

I'm in exactly the same boat as you-torn between commercial/blue star/American or Thermador.  Doing research now for my new home I'm going to build soon.  At first I thought I wanted Blue Star but after reading reviews, now I'm not so sure.  Leaning towards American or Thermador.  Problem is, the commercial ranges are half the price! 

Jo in Madison WI


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## centaurita (Aug 10, 2013)

Yep - commercial is a lot cheaper and looking better and better, as the homebuilding expenses keep coming in over budget. I am going to go to a restaurant supplier and do some investigating myself before long and I will be sure to bring my handy dandy tape measure. I am really curious as to any size differences. I would have DH just measure the one he has at work, but it is an older model and I want to see the real thing that would actually be going in my space! It's a shame there's no place to see them all side by side in person around here!


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

For those contemplating commercial ranges in a residence, you may want to peruse: http://ths.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/appl/2004064556019303.html


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## centaurita (Aug 10, 2013)

Good Info Pete,

Thanks for the link. I wonder if it is all still the same since the post was written in 2004? A whole lot to consider though.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

phatch said:


> I'd go induction over gas at this point in the market.


I'm SO glad I didn't go induction. Every time I cook at someone's place where they use induction I hate it. Maybe it's a personal thing.

FWIW one year after this thread started, my American Range is still working great and never has been serviced. I still love it.


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## barbaspal (Sep 2, 2013)

French Fries (and all who care to chime in):

Can you please elaborate as much as possible on your induction experience, and why you "hate it"? We will be building a new home after we relocate from SoCal to the Midwest at the end of the year, and the kitchen is, of course, the most important room in the house...

After using gas burners for all but four of my ~35+ cooking years, I'm thinking seriously about switching to induction cooktop + electric OR 1 electric/1 gas convection wall ovens (American Range ovens, perhaps). I've only heard great things about the control and cool cooking experience on an induction top. I love to cook/eat, but not being a chef, and not being in a restaurant environment, I dislike sweating profusely over a gas burner before serving a meal, and I dislike trying to keep the gas cooktop clean after sautéing. I will be the first to admit that my "clean freak" tendencies get in the way of flavor, so the induction cooktop sounded like a great idea.

The alternative might be a fancy 48" duel fuel Medallion American Range with 4 sealed gas burners, large griddle, 1 smaller innovection gas oven and a 30" electric convection oven. I'm definitely going the sealed burner route if I do a gas cooktop, and would prefer a porcelain surface around the burners, as I've had stainless for the last 20 years, and don't like using SS cleaner to get rid of the salt stains every time my pasta water boils over (Italian husband).

Another alternative might be the scarily expensive new Thermador 48" duel fuel small STEAM convection + warming drawer + 30" convection oven with sealed gas burners w/ porcelain liner cooktop. I have read that Bosch has poured a lot of money into revamping Thermador's pro-style line and this is at the top of their lineup, trying to trump Wolf with the inclusion of a steam oven AND warming drawer, so one "only" has to buy 1 appliance to cover all their bases. It has a two year full warranty, given 10 years of consumer complaints on various failures (many electronic, I think).

I have found that on the Garden Web, which I've read and contributed to for 10 years, there is a very large bias against sealed burners and it seems that one is lumped into a "lightweight" category if you have practical tendencies. After using an early Viking with open burners for eight years, where salty water corroded everything in its way down to the drip tray below, I'm sure I want sealed burners, even if BTU, control, simmer, or another aspect suffers.

Thank you for any advice offered!


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Induction: I like the control, the efficiency, how the heat goes into the pan and doesn't heat up the room so much. It's very fast.


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## barbaspal (Sep 2, 2013)

Phatch: May I ask how long you've had your induction setup?  A lot of folks say (at Gardenweb) that their range/cooktop died after 5-6 years.

Thanks for your input.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

3 years.


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## whiteiris (Aug 16, 2013)

Seems most commercial stoves are about 32" deep vs a home stove at about 24" deep.  More reaching over and sticking out into the room from the counters.  I'm still clueless as to what I want.  I definitely have to talk to more sales people.  The first place I went was a large reputable appliance store.  The sales person I got A) had never gone on line and read the reviews about his products (he kept steering me to Viking and Wolf) B) He told me that the prices were NEVER negotiable because "They were set by the manufacturer" which is a lie.  Everything is negotiable.  I walked out and never will go back again.  He talked to me like I was buy a car and was clueless.  One would think that if you were selling products to the public, you would know what is being said about them on the web.  Guess not!

I talked to my builder about the size, weight, oversized gas hose and insulation with a commercial stove and he said no problem!  I also called my insurance company and they had no issue with it.  So, I'm good to go there. 

I would love to see more reviews on home/vs commercial products.  I still can't rationalize spending 10k to 12k on a home stove when I can get a lovely commercial one for 4k to 6,  Less than half!!!  The only drawbacks I can see are no windows in the oven drawers and I would have to use a lighter to light the burners-I would much prefer this so that pilots aren't going all of the time.  Help!

Jo in Madison WI


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## dillbert (Jul 2, 2008)

>>the salesperson . . .
next week when they only have a MadeOnMars stove in stock you'll be told it's the best stove on earth.
steering to Mars is not any more difficult than steering to (whatever)
sales people may be motivated by gross margins, commissions, "we got way to much of this in inventory" - many things - but with rare exception sales people are not motivated by the customer's best interest.

the only thing you need from the salesperson is the price on what you desire.
get the rest from real people.

>>"I talked to my builder about the size, weight, oversized gas hose and insulation with a commercial stove and he said no problem!  I also called my insurance company and they had no issue with it.  So, I'm good to go there. "

if the builder is thinking he can stuff some fiberglass in an interior wall and call that "good" - not so.
most commercial models do not have - because they're not designed/made that way - sufficient "internal" insulation to prevent igniting nearby combustible surfaces by radiant heat.

if the builder is thinking installing ceramic tile / other nonflammable walls around the commercial stove is no problem, okay.  did you get a price on that?  

likely is:  your insurance company did not understand what you are talking about.  if they're okay with installing a commercial line stove in a residential building with no 'other than standard residential building codes' - get that in writing.  after the stove sets the house on fire is not when you want to find out you're not covered by the (actually not so . . . ) fine print.

>>I would love to see more reviews on home/vs commercial products.
uhmmm, not to put a real fine point on it, but the professional crowd here are the only ones who can speak with authority about 'commercial' models; and, to near extinction those professionals use residential equipment at home.  there's something between exceedingly few and absolutely no, 1-to-1 "commercial" vs "residential" models to compare.  or brands / names comma even.

as has been mentioned, manufacturer's have "sold" their name (...down-the-river, but that's just an opinion...) to other 'entities' - allowing those entities to make/produce/sell anything of any quality of any design with the "X-Name" on it.  Viking is one in particular that sold their name to the highest bidder with nadda' thought.


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## barbaspal (Sep 2, 2013)

Re. induction again: anyone out there who has used induction for a "long" time? The negative posts I've read are about induction cooktops going bad after 4 - 6 years and requiring a $600+ repair. I don't know how long they've been sold in the U.S. as a cook top or range. (I don't think the individual burner models are a good comparison on the longevity issue.)

Anyone out there using steam or steam convection?

Anyone using Capital or American Range brand?

Thanks!


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

[quote name="Barbaspal"]Anyone using Capital or American Range brand?[/quote]
I use American Range.


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## barbaspal (Sep 2, 2013)

French Fries: what type of American Range do you use and what do you like/dislike? Any problems so far? Also, can you tell me why you dislike induction? Thanks!


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## grandma suzi (Sep 15, 2013)

This is the thread that helped me discover this web site. This thread is a couple of years old. Has anybody had longer term experience with American Ranges since this. I wish I could find a gas stove with decent knobs, limited electronic gadgets, and convection oven. I don't need a stove to sing to me or tell me how to cook chicken nuggets. I just want to turn it on. I sort of feel this way about my T.V. All the extra's are overkill and don't fool me. They don't make me feel like I got something special when the knob melts. I hate being taken for a fool. Any suggestions?


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## barbaspal (Sep 2, 2013)

GrandmaSuzi,

Have you looked at Capital ranges? This is a relatively new company, founded by the founder of DCS in its original (glory) days. It seems to me a very "real" product, quality not flash. I think the reason I haven't looked at it further is b/c the models are all-gas, and I prefer electric convection or one gas/one electric, if I can have two ovens.


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## colin (Sep 12, 2011)

Do you have a budget in mind, Grandma S?

At risk of repeating myself, Gardenweb is really the place to look for appliance conversations.  Have you considered getting a separate gas cooktop and electric oven.  It's easier to get what you want in each appliance that way.

I'm happily using a Capital cooktop; Bluestar seems very good too.  When I was in the market American Range did not look as good, but that was a a couple of years ago and they have very nice-looking equipment.


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## grandma suzi (Sep 15, 2013)

I did a search for Capital after it was suggested by Barbaspal. Perhaps part of my issue is that I did want a range and wall oven but that requires a remodel that I just can't wait any longer for and probably will never come. So back in the "real world", I wanted knobs and no electronics to avoid having to replace said oven or panels. However I could buy several ovens for the cost of one of these nice stove. Are they 3 times nicer? When I was reading blue star reviews (I think it was blue star - my eyes are crossed from reading reviews) someone said their cupboards get pretty darn warm and the front of the oven is hot to the touch. I have small grandchildren to think of. My gas man said I could put in gas as I have electric now. But I am not vented through my roof, only into my attic. I am about to the point that instead of reading customer reviews, I should be reading return policies. So here is my list of must haves.

1. Convection

2. Gas for canning

3. Easy to clean (by that I mean I can wipe/easy access to the bottom of the oven easily when cooled)

Iceman suggested lower end Kenmore which I have looked at on the internet. For 1K I can get what I need. I admit I am hard on my stoves. I slide cast iron on my glass top and don't want to pay for the "special" polish to clean it. I use a razor blade and soap and water. Yes it has scratches. That's okay with me. Its clean and my house is not pottery barn, it is "lived in". If I needed a repair on a Capital or Blue Star where would I go for that if they are so unfamiliar. There is a blue star dealer a couple of miles from me but I doubt they have anything to look at in their show room, but for kicks I am going to look.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

grandma suzi said:


> This is the thread that helped me discover this web site. This thread is a couple of years old. Has anybody had longer term experience with American Ranges since this. I wish I could find a gas stove with decent knobs, limited electronic gadgets, and convection oven. I don't need a stove to sing to me or tell me how to cook chicken nuggets. I just want to turn it on.


I feel the same way you do. We bought an amazing LED TV recently, with a Blue Ray player and all sorts of internet connectivity. I have never used the 3D glasses, I still rent DVDs over Blue Ray, and I have no idea how to connect the thing to the internet. On the other hand it drives me NUTS when it starts playing a preview after I insert a DVD and the sound is blasting loud while my wife is trying to put the baby to sleep, and hitting "pause" gives me an alert saying "this operation cannot be done."

Anyway back to ovens, I've had the American Range for about 4 years now I believe and it fits your needs exactly: it's really just a gas oven, but it works great and reliably. The only "fancy" thing it does is to automatically re-ignite a burner if the wind blows it off, which I thought was great, even if the only times it's been useful were when I was showing off the feature to my friends by blowing on the burners with my mouth to turn them off and watch them turn themselves back on on their own. Well that and blue leds on top of the gas knobs that tell you if the burner is on or off, and if the oven is heating or resting... those I find useful. For example when seating at the dinner table I can't see the burners but I can clearly see the knobs so I can tell if I forgot to turn a burner off.


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## grandma suzi (Sep 15, 2013)

Forgot to turn the burner off? I thought only I did this. Thanks for your input.


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## centaurita (Aug 10, 2013)

Still trying to decide on a range  

I did go to a showroom and looked at the Bluestar. Salesperson was pushing me toward the American Range and it does look really nice. Hubby now wants to bring my appliance budget down but he refuses to compromise on the fridge and freezer HE wants (Frigidaire tall twins). Originally I thought I wanted a 48" range with a grill or a griddle. Now I am leaning more toward 36" since his fridge/freezer choice is going to take up so much space. That will help with the cost some too. I really want the power of open burner and high Btu, but that is one of the huge cost factors if I don't go with a commercial range.

So while I still haven't made it to the restaurant store to look at new Garlands I have done a ton of online research and came across some other possibilities. Trying to stay in the $3000 range there are several sealed burner ranges I may have to consider. Most of them are 5-burner. I don't care so much about self-cleaning and dual fuel, as much as I do about the burners and broiler. So a gas oven is okay and infrared broiler is alright too. I've ruled out anything that doesn't have brass burners. Aluminum is unacceptable there. Here are some of the contenders (in low to hi price order):

1) Frigidaire FPGF3685LS (least favorite but less than $2000 right now)

2) Fisher & Paykel OR36SDBGX2 (about $2400)

3) Verona VEFSGG365 (Saw very good reviews of this - abt $3000 )

4) Bertazzoni PRO365GAS (abt $3900 but also my favorite of the 4)

Does anyone have any experience with any of these? or have an opinion on them?


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## little chef 1 (Nov 26, 2013)

Hi Centaurita,

I just bought (a month ago) the Verona VEFSGG 365 oven. I thought that for the price and the great reviews, I should be getting an awesome product; however, since day one I have had several problems with my stove. One of the top burners turns on with extreme difficulty, I turn the lighter on and takes forever to catch the flame, once it catches the flame it doesn't stay on, so I need to retry this process about 3 or 4 times before I can finally have the burner on. Also, the oven doesn't stay on, it turns on with no problem, but after 15 minutes or so, it turns off on its own, it doesn't matter if I am trying to warm a pizza or to cook a chicken, I have this same problem every 15 minutes or so. I am calling the appliances people tomorrow, because I believe my stove is defective, I don't know if this happens fairly frequently with this particular brand, or if I just had bad luck with my stove, but so far I am very unhappy with it. On the positive side, It does look very nice and I believe we could became very good friends if and only if it behaves properly. I am not giving up on it quite yet. Good luck!!


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## moveoverjacques (Dec 8, 2013)

Am so pleased to have found this forum and to read the postings regarding residential professional style ranges. As the scribe French Fries appears to have the most real time experience with the American Range, would you pls remind me which American Range you own? Is yours a sealed burner or open burner model? If it is the latter style, what is your experience cleaning this range top? Your comment about the oven capacity is spot-on. Truly remarkable and is one of several reasons why this make is worth considering, IMHO. If the unit is reliable and has not required servicing, I think my decision will be made. Thanks!


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

MoveoverJacques said:


> Am so pleased to have found this forum and to read the postings regarding residential professional style ranges. As the scribe French Fries appears to have the most real time experience with the American Range, would you pls remind me which American Range you own? Is yours a sealed burner or open burner model? If it is the latter style, what is your experience cleaning this range top? Your comment about the oven capacity is spot-on. Truly remarkable and is one of several reasons why this make is worth considering, IMHO. If the unit is reliable and has not required servicing, I think my decision will be made. Thanks!


This is the model I got: http://www.cheftalk.com/t/71194/darn-all-the-new-stoves#post_392806 - sealed burners. Cleaning is just like cleaning any stainless steel surface... bit of a pain to clean and it is never completely spotless. It's not like I am trying to keep it new and shiny anyway. My unit hasn't required service so far (crossing fingers).


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## junck (Jan 22, 2014)

Tim,

I following in your footsteps.  Seriously thinking about an American gas range and live in Asheville.   I'm very curious to see if you pulled the trigger on American and, if so, how you experience has been...

Thanks,

Junck


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## deputy (Jan 16, 2012)

phatch said:


> Induction: I like the control, the efficiency, how the heat goes into the pan and doesn't heat up the room so much. It's very fast.


All truth. Especially the "fast" part. By far the fastest equipment I've ever used.

Like phatch, I'm only at 3 years as well, though. Not a hint of a problem though - other than an amazingly high level of annoyance whenever I have to use anything that's not induction now.


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## love cooking (Feb 22, 2014)

Hey Oldtimeytim, I feel your pain... I know this is an older post and wonder what you ended up purchasing?
I myself am not happy with digital controls as they've been nothing but a source of trouble for me with my Dacor. Now, granted its about 12-14 years old...but it had issues from day one! It's finally at a point the entire mother board needs replacing... It suddenly starts broiling in the middle of baking... The convection button has never been right... Just starts getting hotter and hotter till it flips out and no functions operate. It can't even be turned off unless you turn it off at the fuse box. Sadly, this would be a great oven if it didn't have electronic problems. The gas stove top and design is excellent. I just can't bring myself to go with another Dacor despite knowing time has probably cured many of the initial problems these ranges had. I feel wasteful to throw out stainless steel beauty! I just think repairing it will just start the problems all over again as it's not going to be a different digital set up... They'll be replacing it with that same flawed type mother board I'm sure... At quite a considerable repair cost too! 

This is why I was so glad to hear Chef Dave recommend the AR 30 inch model. I am seriously considering getting it as a new replacement range. I just wish it had a clock and timer! Idk how I'll get used to setting an old fashioned timer on the counter? Is anybody else bothered by this or am I just being overly picky? Because in cooking timing is everything! I also must have a self-cleaning model which I'm sure drives up the price a bit more. I currently am using a dual fuel range and wonder if there's truth to electric ranges being better? My daughters GE gas oven is awful. 
It vents all the heat up the back and makes me so hot cooking big meals that I feel too ill to eat afterwards. I wondered if all gas ranges do this? I've read other posts make this same complaint too. 

I am getting to the point where I hate even thinking about what range to purchase!


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## southbound (Mar 2, 2014)

So did you ever buy your American Range?  I am going to be in the same situation in another month or so.  Building a new home and I have an opportunity to build my kitchen with brand new appliances.  Too many choices.  Commercial grade seems like overkill and the and every time I think I found what I want, I check the reviews online and they are always awful.  So now that I have seen this thread regarding the American Range, I am interested in finding out more.  Any comments on real life experiences would be great.  Thanks.


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## brickhouse (Apr 17, 2014)

I wish I could rave about my American Range (AR) electric 30" double oven. I was so excited when it was delivered and installed. Now, I would be thrilled if someone would come and take it off my hands. It has been a nightmare. To catch a glimpse of its INITIAL uneven baking see my Youtube video: 



. The video's description and updates provide a timeline.

For some stupid reason I'm still hoping that they hold up to their promise to replace it. I first complained to AR 5 months after install. Its now been 24 months. However after getting passed through 3 employees in the last month I'm doubtful. Especially after the last employee asked "Could you please provide me with the recipes that you are using for the bagels or the specific brand of mix you are using so I may follow the recipes on the box?" He wanted these to ascertain that the replacement oven would meet my needs. (Who uses box mixes after spending $6,000 on an oven??) I gladly sent him my recipes and explained that EVERYTHING burns from the hyperactive broiler when the oven is set <450. I'm supposed to hear back from him by the end of the week.

So currently top oven has a bake element that won't heat at all. (Other folks have complained about this issue.) And bottom oven has an overactive broiler that burns everything unless its >450 or on the bottom rack. When both ovens were functioning it took 40 minutes (!!) for them to simultaneously pre-heat to 350. (others have complained about this too) The worst thing though is the total disregard for customer service.

If anyone has a recommendation for a new electric double oven then I would love to hear about it!

Attached is a photo of one of the few times that I didn't 'eagle eye' my baking. Burnt rolls anyone?





  








DSC05776.JPG




__
brickhouse


__
Apr 17, 2014


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## veronahappines (Aug 30, 2014)

We had the same problem with our Verona stove.  As it turns out, the installer had placed the black, top piece on the back burners onto the front burners and the front burner tops on the back.  We simply switched the pieces, and have had no problems either lighting the burners, nor keeping them on.  It all works great!

It is important, because Verona has a safety feature which requires that an element (sticking up next to the burner) remain hot or the gas will shut off.  By placing the larger burner tops on the back, it pushed the flame over far enough to heat the sensor, and that is all that it took.  The front top pieces are smaller, and would not push the flame out.  They work as designed on the front burners because those burners were smaller.

We have a dual fuel electric oven on ours, so I cannot address your gas oven problems.


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## witsend (Dec 29, 2014)

As a very frustrated, unhappy owner of an American Range, I strongly advise you look elsewhere. There are very good reasons they're slightly less expensive than others. I liked the design, and the construction, and I chose it - regardless of price - over BlueStar and Capital. But under that well-built exterior are very cheaply-made parts (the parts are made by contract manufacturers in China, despite all the general "Made in America" claims by American Range.) And those parts break. Once they do, the company offers no customer service (they literally have no customer service dept, according to the distributor rep.) The distributor fills the customer service function, and if your distributor happens to be Mode Distributing, you're in trouble once they lose interest in your problems. They'll just ignore you. No one can fix mine (many major parts replaced back in March 2014, but the gas leak and ignition problems persisted. Yes, gas leak, as in, potentially a very serious safety issue. They've been just letting that ride!)

No response for six months, and then I got a consumer advocacy program from my local ABC news affiliate involved. Suddenly I had the distributor and a VP from American Range calling me, within one day of each other. The VP of Operations for the distributor continued to jerk me around, but the VP of Sales & Marketing from American Range has been professional and responsive so far. Initially the distributor said they'd do some sort of buyback, but then never got back to me (quite a pattern with them) until they found out that American had offered me a replacement. At this point I'm so done with all of these people and this whole experience and this piece of junk that won't even start half the time, that all I want is to buy something else. But they're sending a replacement, and if it's not flawless they'll be buying it back at full retail (I proposed that as a condition for accepting the replacement, and the VP at American responded that he'd begin processing the replacement right away, so I'm taking that as agreement.) Plus, the distributor rep, in brushing me off, wrote "We’re sure your replacement will give you many years of trouble free cooking."  So, being that the're that confident, there's little risk to them in agreeing to my terms.

I'm documenting this debacle on a site I've started - american-range dot com - and will cover the the perfection (hopefully) of my replacement there, too. There are a lot of other people with similar experiences, I'm finding, and I'm inviting them to share their stories, too. There are obviously some people who are really happy with their American Range products (I was one of them - it was great when it worked!), and I hope theirs continue to work well. But beware that if you DO have any problems, there's no support.


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## kolob (Feb 9, 2015)

I have an American Range gas range which is great and an electric wall oven which is a living nightmare.  You do not want anything infrared from them, they break  constantly and customer service is terrible.  If I could get even a partial refund I would part with it willingly.  The range has the highest BTU's of any home range which I love since I am accustomed to commercial ranges.  Most home cooks probably do not need or want that kind of power.  Meanwhile my wall oven has broken 4 times in 3 1/2 years.  The repairs are expensive.  With the third break I figured something was wrong with the oven and they were not helpful.  Now it has broken the 4th time and with their terrible customer service I felt the need to hop on the internet and warn people.  They do not back their products which at those prices is unreasonable.


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## pbrady-rudin (Dec 23, 2015)

They have taken me for a fool too.

Please contact me I'd love to share my experience with American Range with you.

908-500-2172


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## pbrady-rudin (Dec 23, 2015)

I have had the same exact experience, it has been awful working with American Range. I even wrote to the CEO with no response. They do not care one bit about their customers. So new buyers….. don't even consider American Range, unless you want to deal with one headache after another!! All the truth. I have all the audit details and correspondence with the company. 

Please feel free to contact me, I am happy to share my experience. 908-500-2172


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## annieskitchen (Sep 18, 2015)

IceMan said:


> OK. I gotta ask ... How does one range _"beat the crap"_ out of any other range? _*TIA*_ for educating me on this concept.


I bought a very basic gas stove from Lowe's a few years ago. The BTU output was deplorable. I didn't know that a gas stove could have problems boiling a pot of water.

I don't know if "basic" equates "cheap" in all cases, though.


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

AnniesKitchen said:


> I bought a very basic gas stove from Lowe's a few years ago. The BTU output was deplorable. I didn't know that a gas stove could have problems boiling a pot of water.
> 
> I don't know if "basic" equates "cheap" in all cases, though.


What size gas line you running?
And you're not using that gawd-awful "tip-over valve" are ya?
( the one that shuts off flow during an earthquake if range tips 
over or is yanked away from the gas source)


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## annieskitchen (Sep 18, 2015)

Meezenplaz said:


> What size gas line you running?
> And you're not using that gawd-awful "tip-over valve" are ya?
> ( the one that shuts off flow during an earthquake if range tips
> over or is yanked away from the gas source)


Three years ago I left that stove along with my ex-husband. I don't remember much about it but it was a common household brand. Probably a GE, I'm guessing.


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

Okay well for future reference....its not just the range itself its also in the hook up.
The main concern being unrestricted flow.


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