# Wal-Mart Employee Trampled on "Black Friday"



## d.c. (Nov 2, 2008)

Have any of you been following the story about the Wal-Mart employee in New York who was trampled to death by an early morning crowd? As the crowd built and the 5 AM opening approached, people pressing against the glass doors shattered them. Wal-Mart employees were knocked aside and one was trampled to death as customers charged into the store.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/29/bu...6ce&ei=5087%0A

*Who, if anyone, is liable for what happened?*

Wal-Mart management was probably aware of the growing crowd. At 3:30, someone called the police to request help with crowd control. According to the story, there were no officers present when 2000 customers broke into the store at 4:55 AM.

CNN reports that the employee who was killed was a part-time employee who had been hired for security. CNN further reports that this person had received no security training and had no experience in crowd control.

My personal feeling is that if a Wal-Mart manager called the police, then Wal-Mart management clearly had concerns about the unruliness of the crowd. The company is probably not criminally responsible because they couldn't have predicted what would happen. With this being said, I think they could be held liable in a civil court. The family of the man who was trampled to death has retained an attorney to pursue litigation.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

The people in the crowd are solely to blame. 

Walmart will be sued. Will settle because it's cheaper than litigation and fighting would only hurt their image.


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## ninja_59 (May 2, 2004)

Its Unacceptable in 2008 

This could of been stopped ahead of time


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## headless chicken (Apr 28, 2003)

In all honesty and please Americans don't take offense to this, the American people and the whole capitalism notion and attitude is to blame. Black Friday is what, a once per year day when theres a major sale for just about all retailers...I mean its a "consumer holiday". I don't know how much money you really save but don't retailers usually have other sales that slash just about as much off their regular prices during other times of the year? 
Secondly, you know how hard is it to not notice you're stepping on someone? I heard that some people refused to leave after the incident because "WE WERE WAITING ALL DAY" well boo-f**king-whooo...guess what, you killed someone! People actually put more value on what they could save on that TV over the fact that someone died and they might have had a part in it. 
Thirdly, I never took law...in fact I have a very basic understanding of it. But correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Murder willfully harming someone to the point of death? If thats the case, people WILLFULLY trampled over the poor guy to get into the store before Walmart ran out stock.

I'm sorry if this seems very blunt and internet flaming but this totally disgusted me plus I'm in a bit of a bad mood to begin with. Walmart yes should take some responsibility because legally there is no one else to blame but the picture is a lot bigger and next year, there will be 2 or more body bags. No lesson learned.


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## d.c. (Nov 2, 2008)

I think you've hit the problem spot on. To me, this is similar to that soccer incident over in Europe a few years ago. Was it Spain where people waiting to attend a soccer game were crushed to death against the iron gates of stadium? People were so impatient to get into the stadium that they pushed everyone in front of them, not knowing or understanding that the gates hadn't been opened. 

The people who broke through the front doors were probably shoved through by the sheer force of the crowd. It's truly amazing that more people weren't killed.

With this being said, how could the people trampling this poor guy underfoot not be aware of what they were doing? I wonder if security footage would show ANY of the customers trying to stop and render assistance?

One of the female customers who was injured is even reported to have COMPLETED her shopping BEFORE filing a police report!

I do wonder where the police were. One officer is reported to have tried using a megaphone to calm the crowd ... but by 4:55 AM, no police were in evidence.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

I wouldn't go as far as to say that Americans are bad people but we are definitely brainwashed when it comes to spending our money. With our recent economic crisis I would have thought that people would be smarter than to fall for black friday ploys but it just goes to show you that when you entice people they will take the bait.

I never understood black friday. It is the one day of the year I would never go near a shopping mall. I prefer to do my shopping on weekday mornings when the stores are calm with few people buzzing around and yes, there are plenty of sales then too. I can only surmise that black friday is more of a social event for people. They look forward to the ritual of waking up or camping out all night with their friends and taking part in the stampede. 

The police were called, the man killed was security staff. I don't know what else Walmart could have done based on those facts. The police should have been there. I've seen the police at rallies and protests fending people off with their clubs, this was an event similar to that. Imagine the animals these people turned into to have broken through the glass. Shameful.


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## d.c. (Nov 2, 2008)

I hope you are not suggesting that security personnel at Wal-Mart should expect to be put in harm's way on behalf of a minimum wage job. 

Although the employee who was killed was part of the security staff, he was security staff in name only. He received no training from Wal-Mart and had no prior experience with crowd control. Management saw fit to put 6 "security personnel" in the front of the store to control 2000 unruly people. This was a mistake that I hope Wal-Mart will be held liable for in a civil court. 

Heck ... if I wanted to, I could call myself a brain surgeon but just because I called myself a brain surgeon wouldn't make me a medical specialist. By the same token, just because Wal-Mart says that they have security personnel doesn't mean that they're real security personnel. 

I wonder where management was when they saw the crowd going out of control?

Were they on the "front lines" with their "security staff?"

I only hope that the family of the deceased will be compensated by Wal-Mart. It would truly be a sad epitath for this employee if he were to be buried with the metaphorical inscription on his grave stone, "I died for holiday discount retail merchandise."


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Of course I'm not suggesting that. I'm saying that Walmart initially misjudged how dangerous the situation could be. They did hire security staff - no? They should have hired trained security personnel but who knows what the guidelines for this are and if they are unified state to state. In fact, this event will hopefully prompt some guidelines on how to prepare for black friday nationwide. The fact that walmart made a call to police before the store's opening indicates that there was a problem. The fact that police did not come is an even bigger problem.


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

Personally I think it's time to do away with "Black Friday" entirely. You're right when you say these people are brainwashed. The sales that happen during December, and closer to Xmas are pretty much the same. They have managed to convince the masses though that they are going to save a fortune.
The masses are asses and as long as they play into the game retailers won't stop until the one that gets killed is one of their own family members.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Hurt what image?


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

The family of the man who was killed will sue. Who will be named in the suit? 
A Nervy Typical New York Lawyer would name. The people of Long Island NY.
The town of Valley Stream Police Dept.
Walmart Management
The glass door manufacturer
As this was not an Act of God, as many as possible will be NAMED IN THE SUIT as this is what its like in America.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

Have the line start further away from the door and hand out numbers, call groups of 20.
Staff accordingly.


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## headless chicken (Apr 28, 2003)

Was there a count of how many people was there at the time of the rush?


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

The real problem is that americans are brainwashed into thinking Christmas is a commercial holiday instead of a religious holiday like it should be. Personally I refuse to go near any stores on black friday no matter how cheap they offer the cheap chinese garbage that will be thrown away in a year.


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## jbd (Mar 17, 2008)

Wal-Mart will be sued, because it will be percieved to have the deep pockets, even *if* there was direct evidence that one particular person actually caused the victims death. Wal-Mart is in a no win situation.

Personally I think any entity involved with creating the black Friday mentality should be required to participate in funding a death or injury fund for these occasions. IMO, the minuimum contribution should be $2,000,000 per entity. In my mind the entities are; manufacturers, wholesalers, retailers, advertising agencies and any media that carries or shows the advertising as well as any group associations that represent any of these entities.

I haven't bought Christmas presents for three years now. I just give small amounts of cash. I have tried in vain to get people to quit giving me gifts as well. One year I asked that faimly make donations to their chosen charity in an amount equal to what they would have spent on gifts for me. The following year I was bombarded with mail requesting donations and contributions from me.


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## mpeirson (Jan 10, 2008)

This whole event has totally disgusted me. I feel so bad for that family. Here is a guy looking to earn a little extra money, and now he's gone. I wonder if the people responsible even feel bad about it. When they said they just stepped over him to shop I was horrified. NO one should have been able to purchase ANYTHING after that. I do not shop at Walmart because of their policies, but this is way over the line. Target was the only store that I know of who had a plan and had areas blocked off to avoid a rush of people to certain areas, plus they had just about all their employees working that day. They also handed out tickets for their high demand items. I hope something good comes out of this. Sad day.


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## d.c. (Nov 2, 2008)

I saw in yesterday's news that this guy had the opportunity to avoid being trampled. He put himself into harm's way to try and shield a pregnant woman who was about to be knocked over. 

I also saw that this was a big guy. He was over 6 feet tall and weighed 240 lb. 

The only good thing about what happened is that Wal-Mart will probably be held liable. It turns out that this guy wasn't a Wal-Mart employee ... he worked for a security company that had been subcontracted by Wal-Mart.

Had he been a Wal-Mart employee, under New York state law, his family could only have gotten worker's comp ... but since he was not directly working for Wal-Mart, his attorney has a good shot at a successful lawsuit.

Wal-Mart will most likely settle. The family will probably get a lot of money along with a binding non-disclosure agreement. The company will sweep this incident under the carpet and go on without having really learned from this experience ... more's the pity.


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## mpeirson (Jan 10, 2008)

Quote: Orginally posted by DC 
_Wal-Mart will most likely settle. The family will probably get a lot of money along with a binding non-disclosure agreement. The company will sweep this incident under the carpet and go on without having really learned from this experience ... more's the pity_

You know they will settle. They have more money than God, and they want this to go away as soon as possible. That is the problem though, it will go away with no real justice or lesson learned. After all, they made their bottom dollar on Black Friday. Shameful!!


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## oldschool1982 (Jun 27, 2006)

The whole situation of things today brings to mind a Veggie Tales Episode our Daughter would watch on DVD over and over and over again. The Madame Blueberry episode (9th DVD in the series) was the one and it was sooooooo accurate to things today. Not going to go too far down that road but..... It's MHO that no one is happy anymore until they have everything and then they're still not happy so they buy more and they're still not happy so they buy more and........get the picture. :crazy:

I just wish that folks would realize that no Retailer, Manufacturer or even Wholesaler is ever going to sell something without a profit. Those 400.00 TV's may not have been at the normal 300% profit margin but I'd bet dollars to donuts they still made a good bit.

We have never participated in the whole Back Friday thing as consumers. However I have been part of too many of them from the restaurant end of things. As many of you industry pros out there know..... great sales day but half the time I wondered if it was worth the hassle. :look:


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## free rider (May 23, 2006)

I truly don't understand the philosophy of buying junk to give to someone just to give them something. I see so many people doing just that. I also don't get the "don't open until..." business. What if the person could really use the whatever before the "until" date?

My philosophy is more along the lines of giving what is needed when it is needed. I feel terribly sorry for this family that has lost one of its own for the love of, from what I understand of the sale, television.


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

Instead of junk from a big store I donated $100 worth of food to the local food bank. Lots of people going hungry that need help.


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## free rider (May 23, 2006)

Yes!!! 

I take public transportation and I've noticed many more buskers than used to be. Some of them sing, play instruments and it's beautiful to listen too, but so, so sad that they have to use that venue.


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## wheresthegrub (Oct 28, 2008)

baaaaa.... baaaaaa,.... 


There is something quite wrong with our way of thinking, and it's not just a wal mart thing. Remember that guy, i dunno where, but New Hampshire? (it was east coast, fer sure), where the guy got hit by a car and was laying on the street, no one called for help, no one went to see if he was ok, some fool drove a bike around him and left, cars served but didn't stop. The only reason he got help was a patrol car drove by GOING to ANOTHER call; thats when he was helped.

This is what we have become?


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

We don't have deadly soccer riots though--at least not yet.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Busking is a lucrative business. Do not be fooled into thinking that all buskers are impoverished. I know a woman who appeared on NPR's _Fresh Air_ with Teri Gross for a program titled "I make $50,000 a year busking." I don't know where you live but the fact is that in new york city the buskers you see in the subways have a permit to be there. They are there with the Music Under New York program and have to audition, are appointed a time-slot and location, and are given a permit.

MTA - Arts for Transit | The Official Subway Art and Rail Art Guide | Music Under New York


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## free rider (May 23, 2006)

I don't live in NY. When it is children, I hardly think they have a permit. Btw, $50,000 a year is, imho, impoverished in NYC. In fact, the median income nationwide of some $35,000 tells me that middle-of-the-road Americans are impoverished. They have to get loans or grants to be able to afford an education, for example. Oh, and they have to shop at the likes of Walmart.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

I beg your pardon, $50,000 in nyc is not impoverished. The starting salary of a teacher for example, or working in the MTA, and plenty of other run of the mill jobs start well below that. True 50k won't get you too far for savings in NY but impoverished? Absolutely not. I also know plenty of people who are lawyers, doctors, and other high end jobs that have to get loans and grants for their kids' education. 

And what's wrong with shopping at the likes of Walmart?


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

That doesn't exactly argue against FR's opinion.
Just because many jobs pay horrible wages to start doesn't mean they are offering a livable wage.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

My chord was struck when he said that impoverished people have to take out loans for college and shop at the likes of Walmart. I think most would have a different meaning for the word impoverished - impoverished people may not have money to squander, go to college, or shop at a department store. People who take out loans for college and shop at discount stores are plain old middle of the road Americans, the majority of people in this country. And it is offensive to calling busking a sad sad way of living. $50,000 might seem like a sorry little insignificant amount to some, while it may seem like a fortune to others. Either way I don't see what's so sad about it. Money is not a factor as to whether someone is rich or poor - compassion, integrity, sensitivity to others, determination, good will, joy, forgiveness, generosity, honesty, kindness, and countless other attributes come into play in determining someone's value.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

Except in this case, when money is what was being discussed.
No one was talking about a human's personal worth, but what the earn.
The worth of your earnings is relative.
$50,000 would be a large amount of income in Compton, but in New York it doesn't go as far.

I think you misinterpretted the intent of the post and got bent out of shape about it.
You've now steered it in a completely different direction.


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## free rider (May 23, 2006)

Yes. Jim, you have understood what I meant. We have come to depend on credit because our incomes keep us, well, impoverished.


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## chefboyofdees (Nov 11, 2007)

First off, kudos to you my fellow culinarians. At least YOU give a d**n about this and are as outraged as I was. I wrote a letter to the East Valley "Spitune" (Tribune) here in Phoenix Metro AZ and only got 3 (count em 3) replies. As I recently got my hand out of a cast, may I please finish the rest of this message with the letter I wrote. Not to say that it's great, but it does adequately show MY outrage. Thank you for YOUR outrage and concern. Cantor Posner aka Chef Boy of Dees

*Wal-Mart**Wal-Mart *employee killed by mob of ani*ma*ls (I'*ve*been sick all day over this)

Happy Shopping Days? Full of holiday cheer? Show Yeshua (Jesus) just how much you love him.* Kill* a Walmart employee so YOU or your family can be the FIRST to have the latest piece of*drek* (stuff on bottom of shoes when you 'step in it'). In Nassau NY, the animals waiting for a 'Black Friday' sale started a feeding frenzy as soon as the doors were unlocked. Not even waiting until the poor man got out of the way, the animals RUSHED through the doors knocking him to the ground…and just kept going. Not even when some others employees tried to protect him, not even when they also knocked down an 8 month pregnant woman (last report, she and baby are still alive.) In fact, when they tried to close the store later to investigate, the animals started to complain and bare their fangs.

What is WRONG people? Are you MAD? Are you OUTRAGED? Or are you just planning to be careful when YOU shop for YOUR *krap*-o-*la*? My Lord Yeshua, whose birth you are supposedly celebrating during this time of year, received very simple gifts common for that era. The Magi did not bring herds of camels…servants…a bigger tent. No, they brought three simple gifts for the new born king. PLEASE, think twice about Yeshua before you go deep into debt so your little prince/princess will be happy…at least for a few days. Your children will learn to accept that 'things' don't show your love for them. I pray that this year, we all start to "think a second time" about what are most important in your life. In my life, FIRST is my G-d, my wife is second, my friends and relatives are third. Everything else come after that. "Think a Second Time" please.

Hark the Herald Angel cry


*now's*the time to buy buy buy...Be there first and screw the rest...I deserve the very best...Praise me, all my family now...to my GREED you all should bow...Too bad that some one has died...My frugality can't be denied. Hark the Herald Angels SING...glory to me...the shopping King.


Sad, Sad day. For those of you who do, please include this mans family in your prayers...and I say once again..."Think A Second Time."

Thank you for reading this and caring. May G-d be with us all this year and may next year be the best year ever.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

No dear, this sentence steered the direction of the conversation elsewhere... Unless you can explain what this sentence has to do with the trampling of a security guard at Walmart on black friday.

People, rich and poor alike, do what they have to do to survive. Some work prestigious jobs, others are down and out. The issue at hand is neither what one does for a living, nor is it credit cards they use to shop, nor is it the sadness of their circumstances. The truth is that the people lined up to go into Walmart that fateful day were all kinds of people, I'm willing to bet. It wasn't a mob of buskers or homeless people waiting since the early hours of the night in order to spend their sad little amount of money. And that's what's so baffling about it - you figure that people who otherwise progress logically through their day, live peaceful lives, accumulate into mass chaos over a perceived bargain, their unruliness magnified by overindulgence of thanksgiving day food, lack of sleep, and the scramble to be one of the first customers in the store to receive their free piece of junk.


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## free rider (May 23, 2006)

A guy who had to take a part-time job at Walmart, a company not known for the high wage and incredible benefits it bestows upon its employees, gets trampled by some people looking for a bargain on a television set. See the connection?

How many people don't even listen to the buskers' music? Honestly, you don't seem to (you just think about the fact that they're making, according to you, lots of money). Likewise, the people trampling the Walmart security guard did not notice him.


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

We had a case of similar 'sale rage' in the UK last year. A new Ikea store opened - the people 'stormed' the warehouse.

FOR IKEA crap....


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

I would bet most of the people who were part of that rush at Wal-Mart are re-thinking their values. It seems they had a riot state of mind. I have shopped at Wal-mart only once because I don't care for the place, but I don't put all the blame on Wal-Mart for what happened. They should have changed plans, though. This situation was out of hand before the doors opened.

By the way, contract workers are often on a different pay scale, which could be lower or higher. I know that from my previous work at Hewlett Packard.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

I don't see what buskers have to do with Walmart employees other than people do what they have to do to make a living and shouldn't be judged for it. And how would you know whether or not I listen to buskers? I merely provided a link to show you that busking can be very lucrative for a lot of musicians and those musicians would probably not care to be looked down on as "sad." I would gladly continue this exchange if your statements made any sense to me but they don't so I'm out.


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## free rider (May 23, 2006)

I know you won't understand this, but I'm going to say it again anyway.

It is very sad that a man has to lose his life for a Walmart job.
It is very sad that children have to sing on the street (busk) for money.

I do not find it sad that Steve Fossett lost his life in the manner he did. He had a choice about the risks he took. The busking children and the Walmart employee obviously had not so much choice or they would be working in more lucrative professions.


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## talkinfood (Oct 31, 2007)

Yeah i dont think it was wal-marts fault at all i think it was just the people and im not sure what the employee was doing like standing right in front of the crowd but if anything it was the people


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

It is sad when a man loses his life over any job at all. It is sad that any child has to work, and frankly it's illegal.


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## free rider (May 23, 2006)

The Walmart employee was a shelf-stocker. He had gone to open the doors, which is why he found himself in front of the crowd. That is my understanding anyway.

It is not sad when a soldier loses his life in war, especially if he is a volunteer. Rather, it is heroic. He loses his life for what is hopefully good cause (stopping tyrrany, for example).

It is really sad when a man with, obviously, little choice in job loses his life over some cheap tv sets.

Tv set, stopping tyrrany... now which might be better to die for?


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

We are not supposed to discuss politics on the forums so I am respectfully side stepping a discussion that is geared towards talking about soldiers dying to protect us from tyranny.


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## free rider (May 23, 2006)

Don't know what you were thinking, but I had the American Revolution in mind. I hardly think anyone would call that controversial politics considering it happened so long ago.

Btw, your comment where you referred to me as your "dear" was hardly respectful. That being so, I do not take your comment that you are "respectfully" doing anything as sincere.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

I was referring to JustJim when I said dear - because it was you who changed the topic from the man being trampled in a walmart to busking.


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

Corporate America is to blame. It isn't only people losing their lives. The number of people being permanently injured because the boss doesn't care if you are hurt is huge. I am one of those statistics even though I am back in college to try to get back to at least part time work. Corporate greed is the issue.


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## free rider (May 23, 2006)

It is greed, but I'm not sure whose greed. When I see so many people, whether working for corporations or not, working for peanuts, I wonder what we've chosen to become. It's more about the image than about the substance. This is what I meant about presents instead of presence. Cheap Walmart wrapped stuff suddenly is more important than the people one shares time with. The turkey is more important than the company on Thanksgiving. People have become nothing more than objects. Dare I say... It's SAD.


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