# When can an experienced cook call himself a chef?



## MarkHoe (Nov 18, 2020)

Politely as I can, a braggart and one with a very large ego, constantly refer to himself as "Chef Brad". He graduated from BCIT (British Columbia) after a 2-year diploma program some 40 years ago. I very strongly doubt that he has a Master's or Bachelor's degree! Chef Brad has worked his entire life as a cook and has joined our group and stated that he has a "Red-Seal" certification, but doesn't have a verification number? He recently stated that it actually was a "Gold-seal" certification... which is totally incorrect! Please tell me about red, blue seals, and the 3 sub-chef units that would make me/us believe he is on the level. This man is dating a good friend and may have narcissistic traits that really concern us. Thank you for any comments or directions on how to verify my/our concerns.


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

Chef actually means chief in French or the person in charge. So you can be chef forest ranger, chef plumber, etc.
In foodservice, You are a chef when you run a kitchen with a staff and the job includes food costing, scheduling, etc. not just cooking. So technically whatever certifications someone has, if they aren't running a kitchen with employees they aren't a chef.


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

When you're in charge you're the Chef as chefwriter says.


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## Innocuous Lemon (Apr 29, 2019)

while chefwriters literalist definition certainly holds some weight, personally i take a more philosophical approach. I think most people who call themselves chefs are really cooks. I think anyone can be a cook, lots of people are. Its how i identify myself. A cook makes food happen, from your basic comfort staples to doing a bit of a blow out for special occasions and making...say, a multi course, from-scratch meal for family. Being a cook - a good cook - is an accomplishment in itself and something to be appreciated and respected. Our world is nurtured by cooks

what chefs do is more conceptional. Chefs marry cuisines and techniques, and not only just that, but in ways they have explored enough to gain the skills to make *work*. A chef is always adapting and evolving, pushing their boundaries. A chef has an insight into flavour profiles gained by years of experience and wordly knowledge and is therefore able to, as i said before, "marry" particular ideas and concepts with existing cuisines and traditions in ways which not only work but are...well...beautiful? 

again this is just me. I dont really see myself as a chef, though sometimes i say it, when it seems easier and more imaginable. You can work in a kitchen for a year separated the heads of frozen squid from the tentacles for the deep frier. Your job title says (commis) chef, but really?


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## halb (May 25, 2015)

Where you are there very well might be educational and experience requirements for being allowed to use the title of chef. Much like here, you can't use the title of engineer unless you have a degree in engineering (or drive a train )

Unfortunately here, the food service industry doesn't take such things as seriously and anybody can call themselves a chef if they desire.


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## L'uovo vulcanico (Nov 9, 2020)

To me, it is a person who has been in the cullinary field, back of house, for a number of years to have a well rounded knowledge on how to run a multi-stationed brigade style kitchen, do the human relations side of running a crew of (for lack of a better explanation), Line, Sous, Garde Manger, Prep, Washers and sanitation, cost your food, order the supplies, plan events, do purchasing, know how and when to upgrade facilities, present a positive image of your establishment to the customers, front of house, and owners, etc... Coordinate with FoH, Run the FoH staff through the menu, give pointers... Did I mention training? Biggest part is being the instructor for your BoH (and some FoH) staff, so they know what the standards are and hold them. Rigidly. She (or he) also has to enforce discipline, and usually makes the ultimate hiring / fring decisions for BoH (and again, sometimes FoH). Sometimes, the Exec will run the entire foods operation of 3 or 4 rooms/kitchens in a facility. When they HAVE that knowledge, skill, and ability, it's not a bragging rights, you can sense it in someone. 

Food school, while giving you a good background knowledge, does NOT a "Chef" make, no more than having a fresh out of school Bachelors in Business will make someone a Fortune 500 CEO or hedge fund manager. I've been in and out of foods for decades, and while I can do an awful lot of what does a Chef (and (might) pull it off in a small joint) and learned a lot of thsoe skills in and out of kitchens, I wouldn't call myself a "Chef". 

Of course, this is all my opinion, but having worked for world class Exec Chefs, some aspiring to Michelin star-dom, you can sense if they have it (or are it), ore are posers.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

40 years ago BCIT may have had culinary courses, but its all VCC (Vancouver community collage) now, has been since the '80's, and there are no " masters" or " bachelors" degrees offered, then or now.

The "Red Seal, prior to 2012 in B.C. was comprised of 200 odd multiple choice questions and thats it. After 2012 things really changed and the qualification now has some weight and meaning to it. Never heard of " Gold seal", at least not in B.C., and "Blue seal " is/was only available in the maritime provinces, with a ranking below "Red Seal".

If someone other than my employer insists I call him/her Chef, I try not to have a smart-assey voice and ask :
" So you're Chef? Whats your food and labour cost, if you dont mind me asking?"

There are zillions of words written all dealing with the word "Chef", but basically it all renders down to this:

A cook is judged by what they put on a plate

A chef is judged by how well they manage their resources

By judging I mean if they keep the job or get tossed out, because without an employer you have neither a cook or a Chef

Your guy sounds like s Schmuck, observe him, ask him questions, and don't get too friendly with him.

Hope this helps


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

My career spans more than 50 years now. I am a cook and always will be. During my career, I was Chef 3 times. 
We have a place here where I live that brought in a "kitchen manager" from the "Applebees'" chain.
The poor guy has no idea how to food cost, breakdown his recipes, weigh, and measure ingredients, yet he's still there and called Chef.


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

Everybody wants to be called a Chef. Show me the money $$$ I really love how now everyone is an Executive Chef. WOW!! that must come with some big bucks. Chef wasn't good enough Now we have to be Executive Chefs......In my Business it was always my client that liked calling me Chef. Things like when they introduce me to their Corp heads. They would always say, Here's our Chef. It brought a more higher expectation to the quality of lunch that day. People love titles, the thing is you have to live up to them. You need to walk the talk. Walk into any kitchen and you'll know who the Chef is after a few minutes. A Chef carries an air of confidence and control. I remember doing a Catering one time. One of the cooks looked at me and said "You think you know it all" don't you. My answer to him was, you bet your ass I do, some one here has to. I told him he didn't think about this function until he showed up an hour ago. I've been planning this for weeks. There is no making mistakes at this level of your career. When you get here you better know it all. So, IMHO when I felt I should be called a Chef was the day I became a Know it all........ChefBillyB


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

chefwriter said:


> Chef actually means chief in French or the person in charge. So you can be chef forest ranger, chef plumber, etc.
> In foodservice, You are a chef when you run a kitchen with a staff and the job includes food costing, scheduling, etc. not just cooking. So technically whatever certifications someone has, if they aren't running a kitchen with employees they aren't a chef.


Enough said.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

Again *food pump*, you make a coupla very good points:
_"A cook is judged by what they put on a plate
A chef is judged by how well they manage their resources"_

_"Chef"_ as I have always claimed, is a _vocabulary word_. Call yourself the _"Queen of Sweeden"_ if you like. Do your work and get the job done. That's what counts in My kitchen, wherever that may be, at any given time.


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## Seoul Food (Sep 17, 2018)

I believe it has to do with your current situation and job responsibilities. I don't think there is such a thing as a "chef" degree from a school or college. I also don't think it's something you carry from position to position. Just because you were a chef once doesn't mean you get to continue using that title at your next job if you are manning a fryer all night. 

The only chef that stays consistent between kitchens I've seen is Chef Mike and we all know how bad he is.


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## Chef Navy (Aug 19, 2019)

MarkHoe said:


> Politely as I can, a braggart and one with a very large ego, constantly refer to himself as "Chef Brad". He graduated from BCIT (British Columbia) after a 2-year diploma program some 40 years ago. I very strongly doubt that he has a Master's or Bachelor's degree! Chef Brad has worked his entire life as a cook and has joined our group and stated that he has a "Red-Seal" certification, but doesn't have a verification number? He recently stated that it actually was a "Gold-seal" certification... which is totally incorrect! Please tell me about red, blue seals, and the 3 sub-chef units that would make me/us believe he is on the level. This man is dating a good friend and may have narcissistic traits that really concern us. Thank you for any comments or directions on how to verify my/our concerns.


Take it as a lesson on how not to be in life. Many of us have past or present experiences with people such as this. I work with a $125,000 chef with a gold seal and a manager better suited for a concentration camp, too. Often it is superiors playing these cards. We know who they are. You can fool some of the people some of the time. But they cant fool all the people all of the time. Bide your time until a better opportunity arises. 
Practice Humility and let Karma bite them in the ass.


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

It has evolved into a moniker that "Once a Chef, always a Chef." 
I still have people that refer to me as Chef.


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## mastermax (Dec 1, 2020)

Innocuous Lemon said:


> while chefwriters literalist definition certainly holds some weight, personally i take a more philosophical approach. I think most people who call themselves chefs are really cooks. I think anyone can be a cook, lots of people are. Its how i identify myself. A cook makes food happen, from your basic comfort staples to doing a bit of a blow out for special occasions and making...say, a multi course, from-scratch meal for family. Being a cook - a good cook - is an accomplishment in itself and something to be appreciated and respected. Our world is nurtured by cooks
> 
> what chefs do is more conceptional. Chefs marry cuisines and techniques, and not only just that, but in ways they have explored enough to gain the skills to make *work*. A chef is always adapting and evolving, pushing their boundaries. A chef has an insight into flavour profiles gained by years of experience and wordly knowledge and is therefore able to, as i said before, "marry" particular ideas and concepts with existing cuisines and traditions in ways which not only work but are...well...beautiful?
> 
> again this is just me. I dont really see myself as a chef, though sometimes i say it, when it seems easier and more imaginable. You can work in a kitchen for a year separated the heads of frozen squid from the tentacles for the deep frier. Your job title says (commis) chef, but really?


Exactly what you said I agree 100%


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## retiredbaker (Dec 29, 2019)

I was told I could be a Grand Chef if I got complete training, so I started as a butchers apprentice, after I got fired from that job I started as a bakers apprentice, after getting fired from that I worked as pastry chef at a prestigious place and spent a few months with their saucier, then onto saute and various positions in the kitchen, then back into french restaurants as sous and pastry chef, but cooking just isn't as interesting to me, so I abandoned the savory side and stayed with pastry.

Anyway, the short answer for me was at least 10 years to become a chef.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Innocuous Lemon said:


> what chefs do is more conceptional. Chefs marry cuisines and techniques, and not only just that, but in ways they have explored enough to gain the skills to make *work*. A chef is always adapting and evolving, pushing their boundaries. A chef has an insight into flavour profiles gained by years of experience and wordly knowledge and is therefore able to, as i said before, "marry" particular ideas and concepts with existing cuisines and traditions in ways which not only work but are...well...beautiful?


Yeah, but....

None of this matters one iota if:
a) the dish doesn't sell
b) the kitchen doesn't make money

So no matter how much marrying of cuisines and adapting and evolving is done, the final product is put on a plate, and this is how the cook is judged.

The chef is judged by how well they manage their resources--if the married, adapted, and evolved dish costs $12.30 in ingredients and takes 2.4 man hours to prepare, a good chef will sell it for $37.00, and make sure the kitchen runs well

Romanticism aside, restaurants are businesses, the goal of any business is to make money, if the Chef can't make money, either the business fails or the Chef gets terminated.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

.

*foodpump* ... _GREAT POST_ ... again.


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

chefross said:


> It has evolved into a moniker that "Once a Chef, always a Chef."
> I still have people that refer to me as Chef.


My buddy and his whole family call me Chef. I think they've forgotten my given name! :emoji_poop: :rofl:


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

Those are some high end expensive Royales with Cheese, Iceman!:smokin:lol::emoji_sunglasses:


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

[JUSTIFY].

Forget it *phaedrus *... my post has, like some other recent comedic pics of mine, been deleted. ... I'm thinking that maybe someone just might need a little tiny portion of *"SENSE OF HUMOR"* included in their diet. ... But who am I to say, right?!?[/JUSTIFY]


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)




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## L'uovo vulcanico (Nov 9, 2020)

Just be glad I'm not posting my Zucchini bread... --lol--


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)




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## L'uovo vulcanico (Nov 9, 2020)

It's good for those on a diet, but is it served cold? :emoji_laughing:


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## Girlmeetsgrill (Feb 20, 2021)

chefbillyb said:


> Everybody wants to be called a Chef. Show me the money $$$ I really love how now everyone is an Executive Chef. WOW!! that must come with some big bucks. Chef wasn't good enough Now we have to be Executive Chefs......In my Business it was always my client that liked calling me Chef. Things like when they introduce me to their Corp heads. They would always say, Here's our Chef. It brought a more higher expectation to the quality of lunch that day. People love titles, the thing is you have to live up to them. You need to walk the talk. Walk into any kitchen and you'll know who the Chef is after a few minutes. A Chef carries an air of confidence and control. I remember doing a Catering one time. One of the cooks looked at me and said "You think you know it all" don't you. My answer to him was, you bet your ass I do, some one here has to. I told him he didn't think about this function until he showed up an hour ago. I've been planning this for weeks. There is no making mistakes at this level of your career. When you get here you better know it all. So, IMHO when I felt I should be called a Chef was the day I became a Know it all........ChefBillyB


You will NEVER know it all!! And? If you think you do?? You need to get out of this industry!! Never will I ever work for arrogant people!!! Life's to short! You either have passion for this or like you, only in it for power reasons!!! So sad!


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

As for me, I've noticed that companies bestow the Chef title to people who aren't experienced enough to own the it.
Just read some of the questions here on our so called professional Chefs forums. The questions asked reek from inexperience, yet there they are "Executive Chef" asking questions on an internet forum...


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## oldenchef (Feb 15, 2021)

I my opinion to be called a chef is a cook of excellence, a head chef is normally a sous, or just a general chef who works themselves up the ladder to become head chef. I have worked in many different food oulets for over 45 years in England. I have been sous chef, chef de partie, and head chef. I have never been asked to show my qualifiations.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Never been to England ( well...I had a 4 hr stopover in Gatwick in '84, but that doesnt really count)
So,... a cook is a chef, a sous is a head chef and a "general" chef is an Exec Chef?

I should really travel more once this pandemic. thingee is over.....


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Never been to England--unless you count a 4 hr stopover in aGatwick in '84-- but that doesn't really count, does it?
So... a cook is a chef, but a sous is a headchef, and a "general" chef is an Exec. Chef?

I should really travel more once this pandemic thingee is over....


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## Koperek97 (Sep 7, 2020)

Personally, at least in modern society I feel like it's appropriate to use the term "chef" to generally refer to someone in the culinary field, at least one who is decently experienced. My read on society is that "cook" is associated with say, a fast food fry cook, whereas "chef" is understood as someone who is BOH at a higher caliber establishment.

Words evolve, and I think this may be a time where it should.


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

Koperek97 said:


> Personally, at least in modern society I feel like it's appropriate to use the term "chef" to generally refer to someone in the culinary field, at least one who is decently experienced. My read on society is that "cook" is associated with say, a fast food fry cook, whereas "chef" is understood as someone who is BOH at a higher caliber establishment.
> 
> Words evolve, and I think this may be a time where it should.


True but, here in the USA we have no formal means of bestowing that title on a cook. Not all Chefs are cooks and not all cooks are Chefs unless they manage a kitchen. So I can say that I am a cook and that I have been a Chef several times in my career.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Koperek97 said:


> Personally, at least in modern society I feel like it's appropriate to use the term "chef" to generally refer to someone in the culinary field, at least one who is decently experienced. My read on society is that "cook" is associated with say, a fast food fry cook, whereas "chef" is understood as someone who is BOH at a higher caliber establishment.
> 
> Words evolve, and I think this may be a time where it should.


My personal experience was different.....
After completing a 3 year formal apprenticeship in Switzerland, my qualifications ( Zeugniss) stated very clearly " Koch" ( cook in Englisch) not only in German, but in French and Italian too ( Switzerland has 4 national languages...). That made things pretty clear....


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## Aldente (Apr 26, 2012)

foodpump said:


> Romanticism aside, restaurants are businesses, the goal of any business is to make money, if the Chef can't make money, either the business fails or the Chef gets terminated.


This is really the main "ingredient", if you will pardon the pun. In terms of a professional kitchen where there is a hiarchy, the Chef (Head Chef/Executive Chef) is the position ultimately responsible for the success or failure of the restaurant/eating establishment. Anyone can be called anything, but as far as the position in a professional kitchen, the Chef will take the fall for any failure or the praise for any success. He or she can then pass that on to the staff, whether that is a success or failure. A good Chef (manager) will use either as a teaching opportunity, however many do not and use it to instill fear and intimidation to their staff. I hope to never have to work in that environment, but I have out of necessity at times. It is no shame, and you will gain something from this.


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