# Bad students in class, hard to handle



## headless chicken (Apr 28, 2003)

OK, I'm in for Chef Training this year around and I took Baking and Pastry Arts 2 years ago. The chef for our baking class knows me and knows my intentions of staying in class since I love baking so much, he knows I won't exempt myself but after 2 days, I'm very tempted. Half the class can't take it seriously; half the class shows up late and drunk, they work the slowest amongst all the other chef training classes, and half of then have a hard time following simple instructions like grab your trays, scale out your ingredients, WASH YOUR DISHES (which seems to be the biggest issue thus far). 

I'd hate to be the teachers pet but I feel that I should step in firmly, yell at people who don't do their dishes or stand around while the entire class is scaling out everything, I mean come on "WHERE THE **** WERE YOU FOR CHEF'S MISEN PLASE SPEACH?"

Last baking class, we finished 1h late  and worse yet, our theory class was right after baking and only ran for 1h. 

Does anyone have suggestions on what to do? My partner and class mates can't stay sober for this class, should I bite my tounge and not do what I love or bite my tounge and stay?


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## salvatore (Sep 22, 2004)

Hi there, Headless Chicken!

I feel bad for your situation. Were i you, i'd speak up...and loudly (but that's just my charecter). When i was attending my pastry course here in quebec, the atmosphere was pretty much the same at the begining. But in a short amount of time, we sort of "auto-disiplined" ourselves within the student ranks. Thinking back, we were pretty hard with eachother, so much so that after our first semester, our 2 classes of 30 students nombered less than 30 in total and we were forced to merge the two classes into one. Although such a ruthless enviroment may not be an ideal lerning enviroment, it does garantee that in the end, you winde up with students that are interested and dedicated.


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## shawn d. (Aug 3, 2004)

All I can add is some people care what others think of them and some don't care. The not caring ones are the people who are trouble. Do what ya have to do for your self.
Good luck.


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## anneke (Jan 5, 2001)

I see that despite the facelift, the college hasn't changed a bit since I was there. 

Choose your battles wisely; there will be many more on the horizon. I remember being at my wits end and speaking privately to the head of the baking program about it, to no avail. The biggest problem (and there are many) at GB is lax selection criteria, and the teaching staff's inability to enforce any kind of discipline on their students. I'm told they aren't allowed to boot anyone out of class for being disruptive. But come on, drunk and handling equipment? Well, it is a faily accurate cross section of the industry I guess. My last boss used to do that!

I ended up being exempted from a lot of baking classes. I was either going to tell off the teacher (If you can't get a grip on your students, I'm outta here!) or find a little project for myself. I decided to remain diplomatic and chose the latter (worked on a cooking show). You don't want to make enemies; T.O. is very small and the industry is incestuous. You don't know who's going to remember you 10 years from now.

It's just a couple of years. Chin up, and find lots of things to do to advance your career outside of school. It'll be over before you know it.


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## headless chicken (Apr 28, 2003)

Actually Anneke, the teachers there are a little less tollerant of stuff there though I am refering to the culinary labs and some of the academic ones. For instance, your late by 1min, forget about attending class or if you've missed a total of 3 classes, automatic fail. 

I'm thinking of producing a petition to go straight to our program co-ordinator and the dean proposing harsher restraints and punishment for alochole and substance abusive students. 

Our baking chef took me aside, he knows me well as he was my theory teacher. Hes hoping for those of us who are sober and working hard in class to step up and help get this class orginized, not by doing all the clean up work and stuff, but by helping to enforce orginization. Yell at people who don't wash their dishes, aid those who are working slower, tell people to shut up if they get rowdy, etc. Chef is constantly in and out, he can't babysit 30 students who are suppose to act like adults. 

I have a few ideas in mind to help straighten out everyone. Hope it works.


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## anneke (Jan 5, 2001)

You're paying tuition to learn in safe envirionment, not to do your teacher's job. If he can't handle 30 students (which I admit isn't always easy), then he's just not doing his job. Why should you be the bad guy? Sorry, but I find this just unacceptable on his part.

As for the petition, you don't need one. Check what the rules are regarding showing up in class drunk. I believe it's an automatic suspension. Again, your teacher is simply not doing his job.


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

Reading this really saddens me.

The behavior you describe is totally unacceptable, and to be honest with you, if it is, this school is second rate.

A class of 30 students is to many for one chef to effectively teach, he/she should have an assistant teacher.Also, the chef should delegate 2 sous chefs rotating every 2 weeks who are students of course to police basic cleaning schedules. This schedule should be posted and *Clearly* break down the kitchen into cleaning stations, ( This also changes every 2 weeks) the sous chefs should do a walk through with the chef to inspect the work and call any student back who has not completed his job to do it right.

I grade classroom participation (Lad and classroom) as %20 of there final grade.


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## mirepoix man (Jan 26, 2002)

Forget about going to the adminsitration. They seem to be more focused on eye candy, high enrollment and good KPIs. The reality is, you can't choose your classmates and your stuck with them. Try to make the best of what appears to be a horrible situation. By the way..is your chef a full time employee or a part-timer? That might be part of the problem..a lot of the community colleges thrive on part-timers, who have little or no training as educators. While all chefs are teachers, not all teachers are educators! Good luck!


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## mikeb (Jun 29, 2004)

Wow, makes me question whether I really want to go to school.... So far I've been doing pretty good in the industry without it, makes me wonder if it's worth the time and money...


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## headless chicken (Apr 28, 2003)

Thats what I was thinking, I know pretty much the whole baking faculty and was gonna ask the baking co-ordinator who I know is much more stingent on students, to step in once in a while if hes got the free time.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Talk about real world experience. Keep your head in the class, forget about the drunks.

We spend too much time worrying about other people. Ask yourself why _you_ have a problem with that. Does it affect your life, your grades, your ability to sleep? Why?

Go about your life, stay clear of these people as much as possible, and do the best you can. It's character building. Takes great personal strength and emotional fortitude to keep telling yourself that you're OK despite these setbacks. Be true to your goal.


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## headless chicken (Apr 28, 2003)

It affects the whole class we immediatly after our baking class is food theory and thats only a 1h class and if we finished 1h late, the whole class misses the lessons from food theory totally. And with all my running around getting the dirty dishes cleaned and putting away all the trays, drying the mixing bowls, and all, I sleep very well when I get home.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

"I won't exempt myself but after 2 days, I'm very tempted. Half the class can't take it seriously; ... shows up late and drunk, they work the slowest amongst all the other chef training classes, ... have a hard time following simple instructions. " 

Why should other people deter you from what you love? Your class is but a microcosm of the real world. Those types of people exist outside of class in the workplace. You can accept the fact that they exist, or you can struggle with that fact, either way they will still be there. Even the drunks have lessons to teach us whether they know it or not. Be open to the possibilities and garner what you can. Life is a journey not a destination.


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## anneke (Jan 5, 2001)

You don't need to go to school to get "real world" experience. Just get it in the real world. If you're missing half your theory lesson because of an unruly group, then you're not getting your money's worth. I'm not saying school shouldn't teach you something about the real world, but in this situation, why bother going to school at all? 

This would never happen in a first rate school, which as Cape Chef pointed out, this is not. GB had better clean up its act, because it has been promoting itself as a premier school in the culinary arts. You want reality? here it is: I would probably never hire a GB graduate unless s/he had solid experience with a proven chef. Sad but true.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Chicken, I don't want to sound like an old guy but I've been through this before. There have been lots of time when I've felt let down by those around me. I've complained, just like you, about stuff that I thought was pretty serious. I'm not saying that it's unimportant that you get to theory on time, I'm trying to say that there are things you cannnot control. These are mostly things that have nothing to do with what you've done or who you are. **** happens. So instead of trying to change things that are beyond your control, you should try and make the best of things you can control. Only you know what you control.

This is only temporary. Most setbacks are. Always do your best no matter what and be true to yourself.


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## hans.schallenbe (Oct 10, 2004)

Being exposed on the other side of the fence as a teacher, first stay and finish your studies, second speak to your class nicely not yelling. however, i believe at the end it is your teachers and school administration to settle the problem with students which are late, drunk or what ever, as it is not right for the students, who are serious. Being the teacher's pet dont worry, as long as he stays professional and does not gives you any special treatment. 

hans


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## headless chicken (Apr 28, 2003)

Yeah, I get special treatment...I scale out his stuff for demo and he marks me harder!


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## hans.schallenbe (Oct 10, 2004)

i know you sound fustrated in your reply. my story back 1976, when i did my kitchen apprenticeship. they called me 'streber' similar like the teachers pet. i never cared about it. but my teacher loved me for the interesst i have in the field, but he was harder with me than the others. 

having a school in the field today, is the only proof i stayed with the believe of the profession. so get thru that school, let go of feeling and just focus on the profession, to become a professional. a leader tomorrow and not a cook. 

hans


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## chefjason (Mar 8, 2004)

I had a similar situation when I was in culinary school. Half of my class were not serious about their studies. When we took baking it was Monday thru Thursday and it started at 7:00 am. Friday's was the decorative show pieces class (ice sculpture and cake decorating) but it was only an elective. I took any and all of the electives I could because I truly wanted to learn. My baking instuctor was impressed with my cake decorating skills. We would actually have people who call and order cakes and desserts for anything from small parties to weddings. Because the instructor liked my skills, any time we got special orders in he would give them to me to take care of. Of course some of my classmates called me teachers pet but I didn't care because I wasn't a brown-noser, I just worked hard and enjoyed what I was doing. The only regret that I had is that sometimes I spent so much time with the extra projects I missed out on some of the regular lectures.


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## marzoli (Nov 17, 2000)

I can relate to the problems expressed in this thread as a public school teacher. It seems that the general population is changing when it comes to behavior and meeting expectations. 
I find it discouraging that people who are *paying* for an education in a really interesting field are so thoughtless and irresponsible about it all. But I do know that in many business areas people are less careful and more unconcerned about their work. Some people seem to go to work to enjoy a social life. That's not so great if they are preparing my food!
It is unfortunate. All I can say is that it's not the world I expected!
Good luck to the GOOD GUYS out there!


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## mirepoix man (Jan 26, 2002)

Yes..students pay for school. But realistically, a lot of them have parents willing to support them while they (the student) try to find themselves. The ones who are paying their own way tend to appreciate the value in the education that they will get, and therefore take class much more seriously.


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