# Steve Sullivan's Mixed-Starter Bread



## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

For the first time in those last few weeks I actually remembered to save a bit of dough to try this recipe. I wrapped the little ball of dough in plastic wrap and stored it in the fridge. Will it be all right to make the first starter tomorrow morning?

Thanks!


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Yes Iza, you can start tomorrow morning. Let it come to room temp first; then proceed. It's quite easy to use the bread-making plan on p. 113 and adjust it to your own schedule.


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## isaac (Jun 9, 2001)

so i have a question.


i just read something on using old dough left over from the prevouis day to make bread. is it like using a starter? *** it in with the rest of your ingredents? i suppose you would need to miss all the ingredents first and then add the old dough so it wont double mix. 

what do u think? 

also, what purpose does the old dough do versus a sour starter?


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Thanks for your help Kimmie, I am curious to see how this will turn out. I think I'll half the recipe as I already have have one loaf to eat.

I can only answer you with regard to this recipe Isaac. To make the first starter aka the old-dough starter, you start with a little ball of white bread dough add water and flour and let it rest for 8 hours or so. You then add more flour and water and let it rest for 4 hours. Then you make the dough and let it rise then after a final rise, you shape and bake it.


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## isaac (Jun 9, 2001)

so i wonder what the diffrence would be if you just used a sough dough starter apposed to old dough or maybe i am just a confused little boy. wouldnt be the first time


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Well then, it would give you a totally different bread. Note that this recipe is not a sourdough bread.


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

I hope the litt' ball o dough can wait 24 hours. I couldn't do it today. I'll know tomorrow if it can stand the wait!


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Isaac,

Here's more on Sourdough starters
This one is based on Lionel Poilâne's natural sourdough loaf which uses the "chef" method.

Happy reading!



[ July 31, 2001: Message edited by: Kimmie ]


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

How long do you think I can keep the ball o dough in the fridge before using it to make Sullivan's starter? 

Thanks!


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Iza,

If you plan on using it soon, it should be fine. Otherwise, I would freeze it until I'm ready.


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

You read my mind Kimmie I was just wondering if I could freeze it. I don't think I'll be able to do it before the weekend and that is if I feel better. 

Thanks!


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

I'm sorry you don't feel so good. Hope you recover very quickly, Iza.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

According to The Bread Builders

"The addition of a yeasted dough that is 3-12 hours old to a new mixture of the same formula is an easy and controlled way to get some of the flavor (but little of the acid) of fermentation into volume produced bread."

It seems to be more of a time savor than anything else.


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

In Artisan Baking Steve Sullivan makes the litt' ball o' dough the night before. He calls it the scrap dough. From there he makes a poolish then his dough. 

That loaf is the one on the cover Kimmie. You can still make his bread even if you forget the ball o' dough.

P.S. I got the last copy Kimmie you might want to order it. Takes a few weeks to get in.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Thanks for the info, Iza. I will order it right away!


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## katherine (Aug 12, 2000)

I've made "naturally" leavened bread a couple of times. You use only a small amount of yeast in the dough, so it rises over a day or so. The next day, you put it in a pan, reserving part as a starter, and bake. You repeat this every few days, and next thing you know, you have a dough that's wet and soft, and a bread that's so sour and spongy, no one else will eat it.  I like it, though, and it can be used as regular sourdough starter, too.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

I had a piece of Firm Starter in the fridge for about a week. Firm Starter is basically the Crust & Crumb starter combined with enough flour to make a relatively firm dough. I hadn't used all of it a week ago and just left it in the fridge. It looked kinda sad and had even developed a little skin. It is as close to an Old Dough as I have worked with. The results were great. This weekend I am going to try and remember to save a chunk of a completed dough and try it. Now it's back to the math thing  How much old dough added to how much flour and water etc. In the Bread Builders they talk about the old dough being 50% of the flour weight. Does that sound right?

[ August 02, 2001: Message edited by: KyleW ]


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

50%? What are you making Kyle stale bread?  It sounds like an awful lot of ball o' dough for one loaf. But then what do I know about it. 

If you trust the book go for it and please take some more pictures and keep us posted.

That brings me to another topic. We talked about recipes that don't work but what about when you read the recipe and know it can't work. Will you try that recipe or trust your own judgement and experience?


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

Thanks Kyle, that's good to know that the firm starter is still okay after a week. I have one in my fridge from 5 days ago, and I was wondering whether I'd get any leavening out of it. I believe Reinhart says it's only good for a couple of days.


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## thebighat (Feb 21, 2001)

I can enthusiastically recommend Reinhart's pate fermentee starter,(old dough. You make a dough 100% flour, 62% water, 2% salt and 2% yeast, ferment it for three hours, then refrigerate it. Next day incorporate it into a dough, I think I use his French bread II, ferment it, shape it, then retard it.Bake it next day. You won't believe what a 2 lb boule of that looks like. People will eat it faster than any other bread you've made yet. It's one of those breads that crackles when it comes out of the oven. I find it's best to retard this dough because if you bake it the same dough it just erupts all over the place it's so full of leavening power.

[ August 02, 2001: Message edited by: thebighat ]


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Kyle I'm gone to get a masters in maths. Will be back in 2 or 3 years with the answer.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

I think I am going to stick with trial & error Iza  It seems to be paying dividends. Here's what Frank's week old firm starter looks like after a run in with Mary Agnes. Next weekend I have 2 days to myself. I think Reinhart's pate fermentee starter will fill up some of that time.

[ August 02, 2001: Message edited by: KyleW ]


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Kyle, she is beautiful! I hope you will enjoy each other's company for a very long time. 

And I can not wait to hear about your next weekend baking experience and the 50% old dough. I hope it will all work out for the best.

I might go for a walnut bread this weekend or the garlic bread. It's so hard to decide on just one loaf.

[ August 02, 2001: Message edited by: Iza ]


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

So, you really didn't waste any time taking Mary Agnes for a test drive! I'm glad for Frank and Ernest. They should be in good company with their brand new sister. May they all live long and prosper...

Congrats Kyle.

Iza: If you're planning on having pasta dishes, the garlic bread might be the best choice!


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Momoreg - I let it sit out for an hour or so and then went about my business. There was plenty of oomph left.

Iza - My judgement is shaky at best, ask my mother or any of my highschool teachers 

The Bread Builders talks about combining 2 doughs, one old and one new.

"The yeast % of both doughs is 2% of the weight of the flour used to make the dough. The amount of old dough added to the final mix varies with the type of bread being made and the age of the old dough. For Baguettes the amount of first dough added is about 50% of the weight of the flour mixed into the final dough, while for round country loaves it is 150% to 175%. These figuresare reduced if the old dough is a trifle ripe. If you are using a pound of flour in your new mixture, you add 1/2 pound of old dough for baguettes or 1 to 1 3/4 pounds of old dough for country bread."

So... If my recipe calls for 13 1/2 oz. of flour I need to add 6 1/8 oz. of old dough plus the water salt etc called for in the recipe?

[ August 02, 2001: Message edited by: KyleW ]


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Censured 

[ August 03, 2001: Message edited by: Iza ]


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Both loaves are so different, I just meant that it does depend on your mood, weather etc. If you are in the pasta mood, you'll make garlic bread. If not, then, you should probably make the walnut bread, or some other bread altogether. It really depends on what you are in the mood for, Iza!


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Too, if I'm planning to make a vegetable or meat curry, I will prefer making naan bread. If it's tandoori chicken, I might go with the poori instead.

I do plan my bread to fit the dish!


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Guess it didn't came out like I thought it would. I shouldn't be surprise since this is not a good day. See I can't even be funny today, it just comes out wrong.

What I mean Kimmie is that you see what your mood is, do you want a dough you can punch out to pass your frustration or do you want a soft and rich dough. Once you decide what you feel like you then adjust your meal to fit with the bread that goes with the mood. How should I call this the art of moody cooking?

As for me, I will make naan to go with the vegetables curry, by the way how did you know about it? For the rest maybe walnut maybe cinnamon raisin. I will see how I feel tomorrow.

For you, you will be happy to be on vacation, you need soemthing light. How about a fougasse?


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

It's all okay Iza, I just found your answer a little odd!

About Indian food, it was just a lucky guess. What dishes to you like to make and/or eat?

As for the fougasse, it sounds like a good idea. Maybe a fougasse with olives!

Thanks for your good wishes. I will be around, reading and posting. I would hate to miss anything...

BTW, this weekend, there's the old farmers market at Place Royale. Will you be there?


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

I’m sure you’re right Kimmie, it probably didn't make sense. At this point I can't even tell. In any case I’m sorry.

Would love to see the market but it really depends if I can find a parking spot near there and how I feel tomorrow. I can never make definite plan because so much depends on the pain. If it's bad, like today forget it. Is it on all weekend? Maybe I could try to go on Sunday

Indian food. I can't recall right now what made me decide on a vegetables curry, but I know something did yesterday. I know it sounded good at the time, easy to make and not too heavy for our hot weather. Found great veggies at the market. Shouldn't have gone there today it was asking for trouble but who can stay away from the market at this time of the year. 

And you reminded me of naan bread, I had forgotten I made some a few weeks ago and I loved it. Would be perfect. 

I wonder how far I’ll get tomorrow with all my plans….

I went to Première moisson at the market to get a bit of yeast and they said they don't sell any. Guess I'll have to go to the Bernard street store. How can one store sell you some and the other not? It’s frustrating.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Really, don't worry about it. We all have our bad days.

The old farmer's market is open Saturday and Sunday. Not sure about parking, unless you go in the Old Port parking, the one near the museum will be the closest for you.

Hey, if you go, what will you wear? How can I recognize you? I'm sure we met at Les Douceurs when we saw the demonstration by Philippe de Vienne; remember the chocolate balls?


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

The chocolate ball?? How could I forget that ball. Actually I did forget, slipped my mind. I did use a bit of it, grated it in... I don't remember right now what I used it with. Have you done something with yours?

I've used more of the cinnamon. I made miniature madeleines with it. It was out of this world so fragrant. I'm glad I bought a whole bunch of it, they don't seem to have it these days.

They raised the price of the Tahitian vanilla bean to 8$. Still worth it, that bean is so full of aroma you only need a small piece. I used it in a tropical fruits soup (can't find any other word for it) It was so good.

Have you been to Les douceurs lately? They have cookware and tableware from Italy among other things. The tablecloth are so beautiful I'm dying to get one.

You are right we must have pass each other that day. I doubt I will go to the farmer's market tomorrow. I will have to rest and recuperate. But on Sunday I might be well enough to go. I will let you know if I can make it.

Oh and I'll be wearing short and a T-shirt.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

I have two of these chocolate balls and I also bought one for a friend who loves hot chocolate. Haven't done anything with them yet; I thought that I could grate some in the chili, pending more brilliant ideas that I have yet to concoct!

...and yes, I go there every week; they have lovely stuff.


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