# Trying not to slap my fellow students.



## sandsquid (Dec 23, 2013)

By way of introduction, I'm 45 years old and spent 6 years cooking professionally back in the late 80's and early 90's. A couple of restaurants in CT and then moved down to Naples, FL, cooking at a few noted establishments and then bar-tending, and then becoming a sommelier and briefly running my own "micro" catering Co. "Rent-A-Chef" in Naples, FL. Met my wife, went into high-tech/customer service then a brief career in law enforcement and then 7 years on recall from the reserves to active duty for OIF/OEF/OND. So ,I have a LOT of miles and experience. Since returning home the last time, finding lasting employment has been really rough, and it was my wife who said, "use your GI Bill and go back to Culinary School", I thought she was crazy to even suggest it, but she countered with, "in the 25 years I've known you, you have wanted to go back, it is where you heart is so just do it".

 So now I'm enrolled in a fairly well respected local culinary school in the extended program, 3/4 of the students will graduate out in about a year with a Culinary Cert. and the rest of use will go on with an AA in Culinary Arts and Restaurant Management.... That is if I make it that long. 

The school I'd rate "fair to good" with the caveat that you are going to get out of it what you put into it. And I realize I have 30 years of bad habits to break, so I'm really trying to keep my mouth shut in class and follow the program; "Yes, Chef!". 

But the other students, the ones that are fresh out of high-school, and like to act like fools, and are constantly chattering between themselves in class, and the kitchen. they are really disrupting my learning. So bad I had to get up and leave class last week twice. Our Chef/Instructor knows my frustration and understands when I have to leave, and is really trying to "tighten up" the class, We joke that it is good experience for when I get back out in the field after graduation. But I seriously don't know if I can "deal with it" much longer, I've even had to go back on my Welbutrin, which I was on for a little while after coming home from AFG. It's gotten that stressful. And I'm just not at all used to this type of behavior, it is simply not tolerated in the corporate world, the P.D. and certainly not in the military. 

--
V/R
SandSquid


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## kaiquekuisine (Apr 11, 2013)

The way i look at it , is that it is best to attempt to just pay attention remembering that you are doing this for you and no one else. 

These kids are usually the ones to get the certificate and once they enter the kitchen crash and burn. 

True in the culinary industry you deal with people who are young , new , experienced , and some who are fairly limited <_< , the most you can do is focus on yourself , be respectful ask the students who interrupt to be quiet and pay attention. 

Im sure once most of them start staging or working part time , they will either straighten up , quit school seeing it is not for them , or just plain fail. 

Just do your best , if they continue to interupt you could talk to them privately or talk to the instructor , but in these cases it is best to ignore , study , and when it comes down to cooking show them who is boss. 

Dont argue with idiots , they will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. 

This is why i feel culinary schools and or institutes should only accept students who have at least 6 months of culinary experience , so they could take the class seriously.


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## lagom (Sep 5, 2012)

Im your age, a bit older and understand the fustration your having. Honestly I dont know what useful advice I have for you but Ill gve it a go. Kids, and thats what most of you fellow students are, have no idea what the're doing as to how disruptive they can be in class with their behaivior. They definatly dont have the focus that mature people do and quit frankly the is no making them understand as their brains arent fully developed until they get into their early to mid 20's. I would try a combination of approaches. Of course addressing it with the instructor. Also addeessing it directly with the offenders, but in a mentor kind of way, non threating and more of a "can ya help a fellow out here" kinda way. In certain cases the shock approach may work ie.. " what part of shut the #%^* up dont you understand" but Im not sure how long the effect will last on some but it woukd definatly get their attention. 

Honestly I really dont know how yo guide you. I never went to school, never served in the military let alone a combat area and have only observed what police get to deal with on a daily basis. I can tell from your post that your very serious about your education and your carrier goals, try not to let the noise distract you to much, soon, abet not soon enough, you'll have you AA and move into a more serious group of people. People who work for a living. Yes,i am the parent of highschool and college age kids, plus grade school age and a toddler, my work is never done.


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

SandSquid said:


> By way of introduction, I'm 45 years old and spent 6 years cooking professionally back in the late 80's and early 90's. A couple of restaurants in CT and then moved down to Naples, FL, cooking at a few noted establishments and then bar-tending, and then becoming a sommelier and briefly running my own "micro" catering Co. "Rent-A-Chef" in Naples, FL. Met my wife, went into high-tech/customer service then a brief career in law enforcement and then 7 years on recall from the reserves to active duty for OIF/OEF/OND. So ,I have a LOT of miles and experience. Since returning home the last time, finding lasting employment has been really rough, and it was my wife who said, "use your GI Bill and go back to Culinary School", I thought she was crazy to even suggest it, but she countered with, "in the 25 years I've known you, you have wanted to go back, it is where you heart is so just do it".
> 
> So now I'm enrolled in a fairly well respected local culinary school in the extended program, 3/4 of the students will graduate out in about a year with a Culinary Cert. and the rest of use will go on with an AA in Culinary Arts and Restaurant Management.... That is if I make it that long.
> 
> ...


May I firstly thank you for your service to our country and tell you how proud I am that you are safe and back at home trying to go on with your life.

Kids will always be kids...nothing to be done about that.

What has been said above is true.

Either the young ones will get on board or they will drown.

I am concerned with the comment about having to get up and leave the classroom.

Could this be a symptom of a much different problem?

Wellbutrin is medication to treat Attention Deficit Disorder. I understand your frustration.

The sounds and lights and actions going on in the classroom can sometimes overwhelm a person and can affect you psychologically....

Been there and done that.

Focus on YOU. Medication is only a part of the equation. The rest is up to you.

Trying to block out the chatter and noise is really HARD to do but with practice it can be done.

It takes time.....a lot of time. It doesn't happen overnight.

Be safe and work hard. Best regards


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## chefmadison (Dec 18, 2013)

Going back to school as a focused Adult is difficult, especially when you find that many people seem to be taking up classroom space. First of all I want to congratulate you on using your coping skills to manage stress by removing yourself from the charged situation to regroup and reflect. Is there any additional coping skills that you could employ that might help you to stay in the room? Writing/Doodling/Cartooning in a notebook or looking at a calming picture on your cell phone?  Since it seems that the instructor understands the situation and is attempting to work on additional classroom controls you have at least an ally.

Sometimes there are classroom accommodations that can be made in adult settings -- for instance in the classroom can your seat be changed?  Moving to the front of the class, near the door or surrounded by other more quite or serious students could help you to manage the disruption better. In the kitchen can you be placed,or partnered, near those who are more serious about cooking?  Is this school a military friendly school which has a veteran adviser, who can help you determine if any additional accommodations can be made? If this is not a military friendly school finding one will often yield a class with many more students like yourself.

Remember, you are a unique person which many of your fellow students can't comprehend -- you have had varied life experiences that have made you more focused, disciplined and grateful. Every since my husband returned from his last deployment he always says he is terrific because today, "no one has shot at him or tried to blow him up, and he gets to go home to his wife and kids every night", and smiles -- "See, a good day!)   You might even be the first person with structure and discipline that many of these young people have seen in quite awhile.

Finally, I want to remind you that if you choose to stay in your program past the initial certificate portion you will, most likely find that many of these "kids" are done and more adults or at least motivated learners will be core group the the associates program.

I hope that some of this might help. Remember the situation is temporary... just like deployment.... GroundHog Day. And then you are done, but the difference is that you have a certificate instead of a ribbon.

Madison


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## dreamshards8 (Dec 2, 2013)

I've had to deal with the same thing through out my high school experience as well as work. I think one thing that has been most frustrating for me is I keep hearing people say "O they are kids kids." Well I am young and it's not fair that young kids acting immature get a break just because they don't know how the real world actually works and obviously haven't suffered the consequences such as losing a job and not having money to live on or dropping out of school. The fickle thing with culinary schools is that anyone can really pass, but sooner or later all their screwing around during precious learning hours will come back on them. Let their learning process of life run its course and remember when you were young: not to give them the benefit of the doubt but try not to let it bother you so much. If you really feel like you are not learning anything because of the situation, maybe you should explore new options like another culinary school. Also realize that dealing with this will make you way more patient in the future in a workplace environment if you have to encounter this.


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## regisundertow (Jul 30, 2013)

What's wrong with just saying "guys, shut the [email protected] up, I can't hear a thing"? It worked in my class. Granted, I'm only 31, but still at least a decade older than most.


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## thumper1279 (Jan 24, 2013)

its your Educaation your GI bill is paying for it but still its your Education and the school is getting paid 

so do something to enforce there job to make it a safe secured place for you to get your education 

I don't know how the school is where you are 

but my school 

WE have 2 dean chefs  and one Executive chef and the president of the school 

if we really issues we know where to go 

2 of the 4 will actualy do soemthing about it before it turns into a real issue the other 2 will take care of it after something has happened that shouldn't have 

Those student that are being bad students causing you to not be able to get what you pay for should have consiquences 

go to your executive chef and talk to them about it 

go to the admision rep who assisted you to get in soemtimes they are good and nice 

the one who handled my admisions is awesome and if there is an issue i really have but don't know who to go to or don't want to be th eone knowns as ratting someone out 

i go to her and she goes and takes care of it with the big people incharge and something gets done 

but if you only complain to the chef instructor and he is not doing anything real about it then you need to go to the next one up the chain 

and also 

don't be afraid to just yell in class at the to  STFup 

i have done that and no one did not understand why they all understood sometimes it works sometimes it dosn't


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## steelybob (Dec 4, 2009)

In my school we worked on "tables" where 4 people did everything as a team. Get on a bad table you might as well drop the class. So the long term strategy became how to make sure you enroll with solid people and get on their table (or get them on yours).

You have my sincerest sympathies I did 3 years as a 40+ in culinary school with 20+ years of working in a serious profession (design) where the kind of immaturity you find among young 20 somethings simply wasn't tolerated (vs being corrected the way the military does, people simply got fired or not hired in the first place).


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

_BRILLIANT_. This would be my response too.



regisundertow said:


> What's wrong with just saying "guys, shut the [email protected] up, I can't hear a thing"? It worked in my class. Granted, I'm only 31, but still at least a decade older than most.


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

OMG!!!!!  This an everyday occurrence at the culinary school I am getting ready to graduate from in May.  I was a legal secretary for over 21 years and I hated it, so I quit, but didn't know what I would do with the rest of my life, so I paid for interior design school, but after a year, the economy was not in my favor.  As a U.S. Army veteran, the VA stepped in and offered us paid schooling and my husband suggested I enroll in the local community college as a culinary arts student and I jumped at the chance!  I aced most of my classes and still study like crazy.  I've been a teaching assistant to one of the chef instructors for over a year and I have a good relationship with her and other instructors at the school.

Here's the rub:  KIDS!  I am 58 years old and these kids and some adults, will talk over the instructor, have cross-conversations with one another, and even interrupt the instructor when I've asked a question because they feel the need to answer the question for him or her.

This week, it is my turn to be sous chef, but I am not respected.  On the line today, I was giving or trying to give instructions to the grill person on how I wanted the plate presented and he yelled at me that he was busy and would get back to me.  I asked him again and he yelled again.  The guy was putting two steaks on the grill and refused to acknowledge me.  I asked the Chef instructor to intervene and he said "Just suck it up" and that "it is worse in the real world".  

The students I share classes with all think they know it all.  A couple of them act like THEY are the chef because they work at a hot dog stand outside of school and they work at the breakfast grill.  Some work at McDonald's and others at Apple B's.  They think they are experienced chefs.  Out of the 180 students I started with 2 years ago, only 12 remain.  I just petitioned for my certificate.  I have one more general ed class and that's intermediate algebra for my AA degree in restaurant management. Not looking forward to the algebra, but I'll take care of that later while I work upon graduation.  That is, as soon as I can find out where I will fit.

I am funny, likable, and apparently very sensitive.  I would love to roll things off my back as Chef says.  I would love to come to school and enjoy my day, but some days, I have to leave the class; like I did today, but after a few minutes of cooling down, I went back.

Am I in for a rude awakening when I graduate this May?  The Chef instructor told me that I will cursed at, shouted at, etc.  Should I just look for jobs as a private chef?  You don't know how scared I am.

Thank you for listening.


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## emmbai90 (Sep 13, 2012)

Yes i know how you feel the last year and half the year before that i was studying catering and the students in there were incredibly childish, the first half year wasn't so bad, then i did  the full course and i got bullied by three of  the girls in the class, most of  them were girls except for 1 boy, sadly i kept getting stuck in the classes with disability students and the college near me doesn't have that many options for over 18s most courses are only for 18 and under which i find incredibly age discriminative, never mind us over 18s then... lol. I actually snapped one time and called one of the girls an idiot because when they kept doing is snatching the ingredients we had to share when i was there first trying to measure out, they wouldn't share the scales ether so i had to buy my own scales (they started calling me selfish just because i didn't want to play their stupid games).

It doesn't get much better with people in their 20s ether, a little bit it does but they are still so childish and judgmental, i'm 23 but i don't act like them who are just incredibly insecure, i seriously felt like knocking them to the ground me annoyed me that much, they also tried to tell me how to do everything even down to what way i went to get some bowls from underneath their bench, never again do i want to be stuck in with people under my age. As doe chef instructor saying you will get shouted and cursed at in real jobs.... i think he just trying to scare you, most companies won't tolerate bullying in the work place, if you do report it because you need to focus and do your best work and if people are messing around in the kitchen it isn't going to do well with the customers when you mess up because of others.


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## nicko (Oct 5, 2001)

@Etherial Your chef is some ways is right it can be worse in the real world but that is not only with cooking it is with any field. Older students are always more focused than young ones.

@SandSquid I have to say coming from the military (thank you for your service) you are probably used to a bit more order. Don't focus your energy on these folks because you are going to meet plenty more in the kitchen. In any field really but often more so in the kitchen. Also don't rely on the chef instructor to set the order you want. This is actually a really good lesson for you believe it or not and I am not trying to be condescending. It was a number of years in my cooking career before I realized that working for the right chef makes all the difference. Why? Because the chef sets to tone for the entire kitchen. If the chef is focused and serious then the kitchen is focused and serious. If the chef is a screamer the kitchen will be fearful and tense. So now you are in the kitchen with a weak chef who does not have discipline for the students and there is nothing you can do about it. Focus on your work and the task at hand those folks have nothing to do with you.

Hope that helps.


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## sandsquid (Dec 23, 2013)

So far, I have read and absorbed the various comments while stuff played out in school.

After the first Semester I was nominated as a "Student Ambassador", by two chefs. Apparently I was a "recognized class leader" and had a +4.0 GPA, & +100% attendance, blah blah. Kinda like a student council, tutor, and class leader all rolled into one.  I respectfully turned it down, saying that "I was in school for me, and needed to focus on my studies at the present time".

The knucklehead, really it is just one little "attention-wh0re", still roiled despite being ejected from the lab by the Chef one day a few weeks ago.  There are others but when "A.H." is gone they are fine.

So, at the begging of my classmates, hoping I could effect some positive change in our classroom, I accepted the Ambassador position on this past Monday. On Tuesday our little Attention-Wh0re was in class and acting like a complete fool. As I'm wiping my freshly sharpened knife, I got distracted by her jaw-flapping and ran the point straight into my palm.  Took a quick trip down to the VA for 3 stitches, 2 bags of IV with antibiotics, and a nice juicy tetanus shot.

When I returned to class on Wednesday, the Program Director noticed me all bandaged up and asked what happened.  I explained "I allowed myself to become distracted by a loud annoying classmate, and stabbed myself in the palm." He just sad nodded knowingly and said "I understand".  So later that day the Attention-Wh0re was pulled out of lab and when she came back, she was pretty pissed and glared at me at every chance.  At least she kept her mouth shut. I thought, "The Administration _finally_ they got her in line."  But Thursday she was back to her usual overly-animated song and dance, harlem shake routine.

One other student, upon seeing my injury and new position, confided in me that she burned herself a few weeks ago based directly upon the fact that she was bumped into whle A.H

 was dancing in the lab (kitchen)  I have resolved that on Monday I'm going to sit down and talk to the Program Director and do whatever I need to do to file a formal/written complaint, as it really has undeniably become a indisputable safety issue.  As a "senior enlisted" military member, it is not only my duty but my responsibly to my juniors to protect them.  I feel that same applies here.

We'll se how it pans out.


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## sandsquid (Dec 23, 2013)

ChefMadison said:


> "no one has shot at him or tried to blow him up, and he gets to go home to his wife and kids every night", and smiles -- "See, a good day!)


Chef, I totally relate. After deployments to Kuwait, Iraq, Djibouti, and Afghanistan. It is still spooky when our local test tornado sirens go off, and everybody does not run to the bunkers hauling their IBA's and Kevlar. Still, the knuckleheads drag me down.

I fully realize that my issue is two-fold. one being and adult in a class of children.

The second being a senior enlisted (multiple) combat Vet, and being used to being surrounded by dedicated people that new how to act, and when. And to "keep it locked up" until it was appropriate to let loose.

Seriously, I have sen more maturity in my wife's 3rd grade Special Ed. Classroom.


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## emmbai90 (Sep 13, 2012)

My god SandSquid i hope your alright, whenever those girls in my class acted like idiots or if they came near my work area bossing and pushing past like they are gods gift i stopped chopping and kept an eye on my cooking food because i know these kind of people are a danger not just to themselves but to others around them and they seriously don't care one bit, they make me sick and you can't tell them because they think that negative they think were just telling them what to do but they also think acting like an idiot is the way to get around in this world, they have been listening to the influences from the government far too much because they make people believe being nasty is right and being nice is wrong. Whenever your around these people just keep your eyes down because more than likely if they don't make you hurt yourself they will hurt themselves i have no question, at college most the time i ignored them but they started catching me on my moody days a lot intentionally, but i still kept it together 99% of the time and then they ended up burning their hand on the cooker rofl xD sweet karma, but they still didn't stop.


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

I, too am a vet, serving in the U.S. Army.  My chef instructor jokes about how organized my mise en place and station is and how neat and clean my uniform and equipment is kept.  

The downside is that some of my classmates seem jealous when chef compliments me on a dish and my seasonings and really don't talk to me that much or they start trying to tell me how to cook.  It's weird because I've been cooking for over 40 years and they are just starting out.  They come in with filth all over their jackets, they steal each other's equipment and FOOD.  

There are some really nice and talented instructors there, but they are just as disgusted with the way the school's run as I am.  I'll be glad when May comes and I'm out of there!

If I have to deal with these knucklehead sandwiches on a line in order to gain commercial experience, then I will opt for becoming a private chef.  That way, I'll have some peace of mind and not be bullied by young-know-it-alls.


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## emmbai90 (Sep 13, 2012)

Well it's no secret people are breeding morons these days, i mean my family are not the best ether they have their issues like other families these days but at least they taught me it's ok being myself and doing what i want to do (although they can be a little controlling sometimes).
Parents generally just don't look after their kids any more though they just send them to the mall to get rid of them for a couple of hours even after school, then they get back home and they still have very little interaction with their parents as they are then shoved on a computer.

I don't think the parents realize what they are doing any more as my parents act rather ignorant towards us having to be in separate rooms but still try to act happy families lol. Most people these days are learning about the world through their friends and that never goes well so they give into all sorts of influences because their friends told them that's how life is :\ i see it all too ofen wherever i go. Truth is people are jealous over anything, if you even so much as get a chocolate bar from a teacher they hate you, it's true schools are terrible now though and the paper work... i just can't do it, it's the last time (hopefully) i have to do paper work because we have to cram it in with our practical training and it's a total rush, one-size-fits-all doesn't work.


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## sandsquid (Dec 23, 2013)

emmbai90 said:


> My god SandSquid i hope your alright,


I was just fine until yesterday, we are currently the throws of gutting our residential kitchen and rebuilding it to our liking. The glorious fridge finally showed up and would not fit under the "above the fridge wall cabinet" by 1/4"! So in the process of pulling it off the wall I ripped my stitches out of my hand. That _really_ hurt!

My wife, knowing I'm just a wee-bit OCD was really perplexed by the fact it did not fit, since I obsessed over (literally) every 1/16" of the kitchen design. Finally, it dawned on her and she asked me "When you measured the opening for the new fridge, did you take into account the thickness of the new mortar and floor tiles?

I just had to chuckle to maintain my sanity



Etherial said:


> My chef instructor jokes about how organized my mise en place and station is and how neat and clean my uniform and equipment is kept.


My second week, one of the other students came up to me and said: "You actually ironed your apron, I would never waste my time doing that."
I just looked at their rumpled uniform and said "Yeah, I can tell." and walked away.


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## emmbai90 (Sep 13, 2012)

Ouch! i hope i don't ever meet the pleasure of having stitches,  i always act extra careful when using sharp knives and i always keep my hand on top so if i have to look away i keep it there to make sure my knife don't slip, my favorite method is the sliding motion  as it dices through easy and safely even when looking away. I haven't learned the curled fingers method yet though and i'm scared when i do get to that lol.  I can understand the logic of not ironing your apron as it gets dirty so quickly and you have to take at least 2 extra aprons with you in case you splat tomato all over it but i know it's all about looking neat.


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## nicko (Oct 5, 2001)

So lot of discussion about what your fellow classmates are doing wrong but I am not hearing from you @SandSquid how to practically deal with it. With all due respect, if you get so easily offended in the classroom you are going to have very tough time in the kitchen. I am not trying to be rude or a jerk to you I am being honest. Let this go, stop focusing on the negative actions of others and focus on your cooking. It is not improving you skills if you ask me. Being a chef is not just about being a great cook it really involves so much more like leading people well, working well with others, creating profitable, tasty and easily reproducible menus. Remember what I mentioned a few replies earlier the chef sets the tone. The more you focus on all of this negative behavior the more you draw it out of the other cooks. If you are a leader and all chefs are/should be then lead by example. You will never get your team or employees to see things your way if you don't lead by example.

I sincerely hope that helps.


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## emmbai90 (Sep 13, 2012)

I completely agree, most of the time i'm ok but when it gets to bullying directed at you like i've experienced far too much it does get hard especially when they keep snatching the ingredients away when you were there, then it becomes problematic because they are really slowing you down, it's not fun at all, i always lagged behind waiting for my class mates just to weigh out and they took half an hour just to weigh out :\ lol, i could of weighed out all of my ingredients in 5 mins and already started on preparing in the time it took them to stop messing around, i got so angry sometimes because then my lecturer claimed i was the slow one.. they really make you look bad sometimes. I had to just stand and patiently wait and it made my lecturer think i was just slacking behind and being lazy but i can't do anything when i don't have my ingredients. That's when you have a perfectly valid reason to get angry, but if it's minor things that don't cause issues with your work then i agree you should just ignore it.


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## sandsquid (Dec 23, 2013)

Nicko, I completely understand what you are saying, I generally put on a happy face and not let it appear that it bothers me, but it does.   As a student, even as an "Ambassador", I don't feel it is my place to confront them directly on the issue. As far as I know, it is up to the administration to handle discipline issues. So, I manage my complaints up the chain of command. The other students in my class have complained to our chef/instructor about this person.  And as I mentioned before he has thrown her out of class already, once.  It didn't help at all, in fact it only emboldened her to be even more of of an idiot, only she waits until the chef leaves the room to do it.

For now, I just have to keep on maintaining my professional bearing and continue to manage the problem up to the administration.  The simple fact is that I got hurt because I allowed myself to be distracted.  That is a tough thing for me, because for the past 7 years I was all about maintaining situational awareness, and keeping myself and the junior enlisted under me, alive in a combat zone.


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## emmbai90 (Sep 13, 2012)

The reason the discipline is lacking is because of the insurance they get per student if they do something about it then the person causing trouble can then turn around and say the chef in charge is bullying them then start suing the school/college, and it's been happening far too much even to high school teachers so now they have to cover themselves plus to make sure to get that insurance per student, if issues arise like this they can also lose their insurance, it's just sad they care more about money than the people there but they have become more like business's than learning places now, the college i live near is like a college/business as you can go there to get your hair done, eyebrows plucked and waxed, tanned or get your nails done and has a restaurant the students learn in so it's more or less like training in a work place. A lot of new colleges are turning out this way now and they are even considering turning high schools the same  way, some are already like that. So they can't do much any more even about bullying (when they claim bullying isn't condoned whatsoever), they are a load of talk.


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

Funny how this all ties in with the apprenticeship thread here on the forums.

If we had a curriculum that stressed professionalism and expected the students to perform to a given standard, all of behavior would be taken care of right at the beginning.

If you want to play and be immature, jealous, envious, and mean....you have to leave....sorry.


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## emmbai90 (Sep 13, 2012)

Yeh i agree those three girls in my class they were not even told to go outside it was always me they told off like i was the bad person, once i told the women teaching us and all she did was get another teacher in our Wednesday morning class (which was a waste of time), to tell them that bullying is wrong and they sort of mentioned their names into the equation but after that nothing because they are too scared those girls will hang up on them and sue the college, so they won't even put them outside any more, it's ridiculous. The odd teacher there will like the teacher for the job courses the job center send them to he yells at you so loud if your even 10 seconds late lol listened while waiting outside for class, could hear him all way down the corridor haha we need more people like him, they don't play around.


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## sandsquid (Dec 23, 2013)

One of the big reasons I chose this program over the other culinary degree programs offered in my city, is that they had the _lowest_ "on-time graduation rate", at 48%.  I figured they were more stringent and did not just pass people along to keep collecting tuition.  For the most part it was a true assessment. After the mid-term assessment of the first semester we were down to 50% of our starting roster.  Students get dropped or classed back for grades, and finances, But sadly not for discipline.

On a positive note, when we started the second semester, we had one person join our class to re-take it.  Now, they are focused and very intent on doing well, staying late, asking for extra tutoring, and even coming in on off days. From what I heard from their former classmates, they _were_ a real "problem child".  I'm very glad they "got" the wake-up call, and go out of my way to help them whenever I see them struggling.  They are a real pleasure to work with.


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## emmbai90 (Sep 13, 2012)

Yeh many younger people are like that these days, they cause trouble just to try and be "popular" but they don't understand the coast it has on their life, and i get we were born into this world and just expected to follow it without a choice of how our world should be (indeed it's disgusting and terribly wrong).

What can we do? people are not changing any time soon and more than likely it will be too late and something disastrous happens before they actually snap out of it, that's another reason they lash out and i struggle with it as a 23 year old too i just don't see how it's right, but what would acting horrible accomplish with anyone or anything?, nothing... Of course i'm a "nasty" person anyway to those who are envious lol, your damned no matter what you do but isn't it better going down as a good person than bad?.

i feel their pain as people intentionally don't help you out of jealously and ego, far too much pride on their parts and even i struggle to get any sense out of most people, even if they give an answer they give it in the most confusing way where i have to ask several questions until they finally cave but some don't cave and just go "well... i told you, find it out for yourself", it just doesn't help that way because this world works off collaboration. No matter how this planet is ran we STILL need to work from collaboration by teaching each other, when people say we can learn things ourselves it's total crap, we can learn the odd thing ourselves but from medium to more complicated things we need someone to show us, i couldn't ever learn a piano on my own even if some people have but i need to be shown and supported not be left in the dark on my own.


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## raibeaux (Dec 21, 2012)

The loud-mouths will not succeed in a restaurant, even a "smidgeon". That's pretty much a given. If they won't listen to their instructors in school, they certainly won't be listening to their "bosses" at a restaurant. Short-time employees. Very short. Can't explain anything to them, won't pay attention to demonstrations, won't take correction, want to do things their way rather than how the owner/chef/etc. wants it done.

Don't know if it would work, or help, but my thinking is this...if I had paid tuition and was serious about my culinary education, and it was funded by the government, as a last resort I would talk to the school's owner/board, or whatever and tell them that I was thinking about requesting a full refund for substandard education due to classroom disruptions. I would also find out who to talk to in the government in order to report the situation and attempt to transfer the GI benefits to another school (that's better than "fair to good") using substandard education quality as a reason for wanting to switch. This may be just another school like many, only created to stick it to the government. Sign'em up and ship'em out !

I would probably get my ducks in a row if possible with the government before I even said anything. But I would definitely say something. Regardless of whether things improved I would be looking for a serious school of some sort if things didn't improve drastically.

By the way, before you entered the school did you check to see if they had some sort of job placement track record?

_By the way again, you may just possibly be able to dull any shine on your buttons a bit and work through it. Worth a try._

_Take care._


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## emmbai90 (Sep 13, 2012)

Yeh they definitely won't get very far, problem is a lot of people are out of practice mentally and have loosened up with all partying too much, i don't do any of that as i get a bit lethargic but they think everything is all about fun and that any sort of difficult thing that happens isn't normal to happen so they have problems dealing with daily problems because nobody taught them how to deal, there definitely needs to be more support in schools but usually they never listen to anything.

I can be like that sometimes but i'm trying not to be and learn but it's frustrating where you know one thing and someone tells you another, you just don't understand what to believe lol. I more or less skipped through my teen angst phase although i think it started late for me but a lot these days don't come out of it easily and they have all sorts of problems. They just don't understand why and it's confusing and frustrating, especially these days where nothing is ever what it seems to be.


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## sandsquid (Dec 23, 2013)

Things really hit a boiling point today.Two more people had run-in's today, on separate occasions.  Luckily, incident #1 resulted in a relatively minor cut. The student was at the first-aid box bandaging up when Chef returned and he went over to check the severity of the injury and inquire what happened and he got a full accounting of the distracting shenanigans of the knuckle-head, which conveniently happens while Chef is out of the room.

Later, as we were cleaning, up a young lady that works at my table asked if I could go with her to talk to Chef about an incident that happened while she was walking to the sink to wash her knife (saying "sharp, sharp, sharp..." all the way.) From what was relayed to me by her, and another student that approached the conversation, the object of our affections was walking around while absorbed in texting or whatever on her phone and walked into the other person.  And then proceeded to verbal accost her for not paying attention to what _she_ was doing.  I really wish I had been in the room for that, because I would have gone straight into Drill Instructor mode.  Perhaps it is for the best that it did not.  And, check this out, this happened _after_ Chef had already pulled Miss Sunshine out of the room to reprimand her for having her phone out in lab earlier in the day.  Needless to say, Chef was rather displeased and assured us the issue would be addressed.


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## nicko (Oct 5, 2001)

Not really getting a whole lot out of this discussion that is constructive more like a rant at this point.


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## sandsquid (Dec 23, 2013)

Nicko said:


> Not really getting a whole lot out of this discussion that is constructive more like a rant at this point.


Just relating how the situation has developed.

If I came across as ranting, I apologize.


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## michaelga (Jan 30, 2012)

You might be in the wrong profession... no restaurant, unless you own and run it is going to have a perfectly gung-ho bunch of professionals that never screw around.  

Mis-fits and rejects are pretty much the norm in any restaurant... they might not last long but they are always creeping in...

... and  you'll never get to slap them, without landing yourself in Jail.

Up your meds or get thicker skin. (not trying to be insulting just a reality check)


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## nicko (Oct 5, 2001)

@SandSquid Yeah but to what end are you sharing the development. I mean the point of this discussion really needs to be how you are learning to deal with difficult people. And to Michael's point man you better learn to deal with it because you are going to be dealing with knuckle heads in the kitchen all through your career.

To echo Michael's sentiment I to am not trying to be a jerk to you but you need to come up with a solution for how to deal with this. Let me share with you one of my experiences that to me sounds a bit similar.

A long time ago I worked as an executive sou chef at a large kitchen in Chicago with about 25 cooks under me. Some of those people were much older than me and did not enjoy having a young person managing them. You know what I did I got upset about it, angry, frustrated and I focused all my energy on the one or two guys who not respect me or listen to me. It got so bad I couldn't sleep and was having anxiety attacks. Till one day I realized I was focusing on pretty much one person who was making my life a pain. I was in a unique situation in that I did not have authority to fire the person. However, I realized that I had a great crew and did not need this guy. So going forward I based all of my planning and scheduling without this guy. Anything he did was an extra bonus and if he didn't do anything it did not matter. It got to a point where he couldn't understand when he would tell me he was leaving for the day even though we had a ton of work why I didn't care. And, why at some points I even told him he could go home we had it covered.

You know what happened? I grew, I learned that you can only be responsible for yourself you can't change someone else. Did that guy grow? No he went on being a cook the rest of his life never being a chef or having his own kitchen. My advice to you is you are at the same juncture man it is time to grow and stop fixating on everyone else.

Be a person who becomes a chef and a great leader in the kitchen or quit now because all you will ever be is an angry cook.

Sincerely hope that helps you.


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## sandsquid (Dec 23, 2013)

Nicko & Michael, thank you both.  No offense taken at all.  I am aware that dealing with knuckleheads in this (as with most any) industry is unfortunately to be expected.  Dealing with these folks is indeed going to be one of my biggest challenges.


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

HA!!!!  Good job!!!!  That is so real at my school.  I see tomato sauce stains, dark grease, wrinkled-wrinkles, and just plain old fashioned body dirt.  These students just shove them in their lockers until the next day.  I have one less jacket to wash now because one of my fellow female students is a thief.  I suspect she was the one that stole my brand new measuring spoons and cups.  She returned the spoons (claiming she "found them in storage", but I left them on my station, so unless they grew legs and walked, I don't see how they ended up in storage).

Nicko is right about one thing, the chef sets the tone and my chef instructor wants peace, but does nothing about students respecting each other.  I have 4 1/2 weeks until graduation and I'll be so glad when this is over.  I used to think it would be bitter-sweet and I'm basically a cheerful and fair person, but when my rotation to be sous chef came up, NO ONE RESPECTED ME and when I complained to he instructor, all I heard was "that's the real world".  Well, I'll bet 5011 dollars that the reason "it's the real world" is because IT'S BEEN PERMITTED far too long.  

My main goal is to get the food out and not worry that a student is trying to show me how to serve a scoop of rice.  I totally ignored her the next day and she started making mistakes.  I'm 58 years old and have been creating dishes before these kids were even born, yet now that they've worked the grill, they're "experts".  F-M is what I say!

Moving on.


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