# Knife roll was stolen, need suggestions



## grahapes (Jan 13, 2013)

Yesterday was a rough day for me... 

All my tools... all of them, are gone, stolen from my car. So I need some help with some suggestions. 


On the way is a Moritaka KS 250 and was wondering if someone could give me some Saya suggestions. What will fit?. Doesn't need to be extremely fancy
First things first.

I do consider myself a pretty good sharpener with a decent set of stones.

Right handed. Handle style doesn't matter. Carbon or stainless. Push/pull chopping profiles

I will list off the knives that were in my roll, what I liked and didn't like. And If anyone can offer similarly priced replacements. Budget $800

Fujiwara FKH 270 gyuto (prep knife)

Thinned, edge geometry ground to 80/20. 
Pros: Go to prep knife. Tough, held a decent edge, flat I liked the elevated tip. cheap.

Cons:super sticky, terribly sticky.

Yoshihiro VG-10 rosewood handle gyuto 210 (used as utility)

Pros: Fit and finish, edge retention 

Cons: sharpening. Burr removal, foux damascus (it was a gift) 

Richmond 240 extra tall gyuto (line knife)

Pros: I liked the hight, cheap, I didn't care if other people used it.

Cons: fit and finish, edge retention. It was ugly. 
Stainless prefered.

Misono dragon 240 
I actually have nothing bad to say and will probably buy another one, looking for wa style suggestions around $200

A good small (75cm-110cm) WA petty for around $100

I apologize I am typing this on my phone


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Sorry to hear that! I hate knife thieves! I think this line is a crazy good value:

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn

Great geometry, great cutters. My preference is the kasumi ones which are stainless clad V2 steel, but they're all out of stock. What is in stock is stainless or kurouchi finish. From your list, I don't think you like kurouchi finish?

If I were you I would consider these Wakui knives.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/wakuiknives.html

I heard the smith used to work on the itinomonn line, only hearsay on a knife forum. The ones sold through bernal cutlery had great reviews, I don't know about the handles on these CKTG ones, I would probably swap it out eventually. For the price, I don't care about the handle that much.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Sorry for your loss. I hate thieves. Just recently someone broke into my wife's car. She may have left it unlocked so it may have been easy for them. The stole 3 pairs of prescription eye glasses, but left the Saint Christopher medal and some expensive perfume. Good luck replacing your blades!


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

What ever knives you choose to get, do not get a knife roll, a roll can be stuffed down pants or in a hotel pan of food without anyone noticing.

Instead, get yourself a toolbox or fishing tackle box with a big nasty padlock. Plaster the box with stickers, re paint it purple, main thing is that everyone knows it is yours and it is identifiable half a mile a way.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Take pictures as you build your new system for documentation and maybe talk to your insurer about a small rider for work tools. The pictures will help establish what they're covering and set values.


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## grahapes (Jan 13, 2013)

Thanks all for your input, I am looking for knife recomendations, I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about most of the brands. Let me put it differently,

Say YOUR working knife kit was stolen, today... and you had roughly $700 to play with for purchasing knives only, what would you buy. 

I repeat... I already purchased a Moritaka 250 ks, so 240 laser-ish is not needed.

WA or yo, Carbon or stainless, KU finish fine.

I need, a Suji 270 
a small wa petty, 75cm to 110cm, 
A small gyuto/large petty
A don't really give a crap 240 gyuto for the line (stainless,medium hardness, yo handle)

Thanks again for the anti theft suggestions, this one really hurt bad.


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## grahapes (Jan 13, 2013)

Nuthing?


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

I've been waiting too. Been biting my tongue since I always seem to be out of step with the local knife experts.

But consider this - buy some Shun's. You'll get your work done and from what I read here nobody in their right mind would waste their time stealing them. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif

I don't work outside the house very often anymore, but my traveling knife roll has 5 Forgecrafts. People tend to notice but nobody seems to covet them. I just have to be careful about other folks borrowing them and not drying them off.


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

I'm a fan of Sabatier high carbon. Affordable, easy to sharpen, good edge retention, comfortable for me to use. I've never had one stolen but I'd guess the high carbon part might deter a thief. 

I have no experience with Japanese knives and at this point have too many knives already to spend  money on even more i don't need.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

For your sujihiki, what do you use it for most?  Ex. mine is mostly used to slice cooked roasts and portion red meat.  I shopped for the sturdiest least flexing one and ended up with the Kochi from JKI.  If you are slicing fish more, then something thinner is appropriate.

If I started over, I only NEED 3 knives, the rest are for fun.  CCK 1103, Itinomonn wa butcher, Kochi 270 suji.  Cleaver is very very efficient once you learn how to use it and no one steals a dirty looking old chinese cleaver.

For chefs/gyuto I already made my recommendation.  I just used my my itinomonn on carrots yesterday and it was delightful.


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## grahapes (Jan 13, 2013)

BrianShaw that was a joke right? 

I usually keep my knives in my work locker, once every couple of weeks I'll bright them home for sharpening. This wasn't some envious Co worker... this was probably some drug addict.

I usually use my Suji for slicing cooked and uncooked meet. Breaking down fish, cutting ripe tomatoes. I enjoy some flex. Am leaning towards another dragon, 

I used a cleaver for a long time, and might go back.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

It's not that nobody cared, it's just that the choices you left open are so huge.

Since you like carbon I'd suggest the Geshin Ginga for a suji (at the higher end) or the Geshin Uraku or Gonbei (stainless, but good stainless).

Or perhaps the Kenehide: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kanehide1.html

Or just overwhelm yourself: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/sujihiki270mm.html

For the small gyuto/large petty hands down it would be the Takamura migaki, from anyone who has it in stock, like:

http://www.chuboknives.com/collections/takamura

Petty's take your pick: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/80mmpettys.html

Tojiro and Fujiwara are the standby's for cheap stainless 240 gyuto.

Rick


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Sorry to hear of your ordeal. Did you report it to the local police station and get a copy of report. Yo could be covered under homeowners insurance or car insurance for the loss. Plus it is tax deductable


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## grahapes (Jan 13, 2013)

Thanks a lot rick, do you have any hands on experience with the Kenehide. What's the grind like? 80/20? And do you have any experience with kohetsu hap40?


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## grahapes (Jan 13, 2013)

And ed, I did file a police report, and informed the local pawn shops. Unfortunately I don't have renters insurance, or comprehensive car insurance.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

No personal experience with the kanehide but folks reporting seem to think it is on par with the more expensive carbonext and other similar competitors.  The edge-grind doesn't matter as it is easily changed to symmetrical if you like.

Not tried any HAP40 but SRS-15 steel is in that class and I can attest to how amazing its edge retention, and for stainless there isn't much that will take a better edge.  Given what people say HAP40 is close enough to that, and seem to imply it takes an edge more like carbon.  I like the Kohetsu HAP40 as it has a nice French profile.

For your small gyuto/large petty I picked the Takamura because it is very light and not at all tall at the heel for a gyuto, the price is right and it's R2 steel is highly regarded.  Just understand it is a laser.

Rick


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## grahapes (Jan 13, 2013)

Thanks for the information, one of the reasons I haven't given so much attention to a lot of these high hrc tool steals is... I had the hardest time with deburring my vg-10 knive, and I have heard some horror stories, mainly with poorly heat treated M390.

I hated sharpening it, but I loved how long it would hold an edge.

How was the edge taking and deburring on the SRS-15?


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

First understand that VG-10 is perhaps the worst steel to deburr, and absolutely impossible when the HT is off, just impossible.  Also it is not a PM steel.

Sharpening SRS-15 is easy enough and deburring a breeze, I'd say HAP40 probably even easier given that it is semi-stainless.  SRS-15 takes a nicely refined edge with a 6K stone.

I had some micro-chipping till the fourth sharpening, but absolutely none since.  With a 12deg edge it just laughs at my edge-grain board.  8 weeks daily home use and I haven't even touched it up, I could still whittle hair when I tried a couple weeks ago.  With a conservative edge I can see it going a very long time between sharpening in a pro environment.

I'd say make your choice between these steels according to knife geometry, you do have limited options here at this time.  And have a good coarse stone when it comes to thinning.

Rick


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

Man, that sucks!  I hate thieves.  If I were in your shoes the first thing I'd do is apparently the first thing you did- get another Moritaka KS. That's such a fantastic knife and I'd be lost without mine.  I haven't used the Kanehide but at the price I wouldn't be afraid to try it.    I'm not sure about a saya as I have a case that obviates the need for one.  Maybe call Mark at CKtG.  He has several different sayas.

HAP40 is an awe inspiring steel.  SRS-15 is also terrific, and I especially like my 240mm Akifusa. IIRC Ikeda makes it and you see it sold under other names, too.  I'd need to replace mine immediately if it was lost.

I would highly recommend the CarboNext line from JCK.  Outstanding stuff but pretty inexpensive.  It's similar to or maybe just a rebranded version of the Kikuichi TKC.  Terrific edge retention, nearly stainless and they take a great edge as well.  It's very easy to sharpen, too- easier than anything I have tried except White and AEB-L.


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## grahapes (Jan 13, 2013)

Yall aren't making it an easy desicion between hap40 and srs-15. I did pick up a the Takamura r2 180. Can't wait.

Mark said he should be able to find a saya that will fit the Moritaka ks. 

Also grabbed the richmond 52100 210 gyuto as my a project/line knife. It's so cheap I figured why not. My previous dealings with CKTG have been good, and he'll have it to me in a couple of days. 

Bought a 240 dragon Suji from a co-worker who threw in a little mac mighty 180 Santos 

A friend who knows nothing about the industry or my obsession told me that when we lose things... it opens the door for better things to come in. 

The hardest thing to do has been having to reject knives that family and friends have tried to give me. 

An old boss tried to give me a brand new... 8 piece sysco set...SMH.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

There's also a 240 Kanehide on the cktg closeout page.

If you're having trouble deciding between the Akifusa/Arisan/ikea/Geshin Kagero and the Kohetsu HAP40 consider that:  The Akifusa et al has no flat to the profile, just a continuous gentle curve toward the back - the Kohetsu does have some flat, and it's a bit taller also.

Rick


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

grahapes said:


> Yall aren't making it an easy desicion between hap40 and srs-15. I did pick up a the Takamura r2 180. Can't wait.
> 
> Mark said he should be able to find a saya that will fit the Moritaka ks.
> 
> Also grabbed the richmond 52100 210 gyuto as my a project/line knife. It's so cheap I figured why not. My previous dealings with CKTG have been good, and he'll have it to me in a couple of days.


SRS-15 has very good edge retention but not as good as M390. Supposedly HAP40 holds and edge longer than M390. Still, I love my Akifusa. I expect you'll like the Richmond in 52100. What is it, an Artifex or Ultimatum?


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

Rick Alan said:


> There's also a 240 Kanehide on the cktg closeout page.
> 
> If you're having trouble deciding between the Akifusa/Arisan/ikea/Geshin Kagero and the Kohetsu HAP40 consider that: The Akifusa et al has no flat to the profile, just a continuous gentle curve toward the back - the Kohetsu does have some flat, and it's a bit taller also.
> 
> Rick


That's the thing I most love about my Akifusa- the dead flat edge. Almost no belly at all! It could be a smidge taller but overall the geometry is nearly perfect.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Let me make sure I'm understanding you right - the Akifusa does have a dead flat to it? Because in pictures all the SRS-15 gyutos look like they have a slight curve to the back section instead of dead flat.

I just have one of the petties, a Kagero (no dead flat on it) I use for making thousands of fine shavings in celery and things of such size, which is why I am so impressed with the edge holding as I'm always whacking the same little area on the board, but the edge just holds and holds and holds. Any ordinary steel would be producing celery sawdust or some kind of mush instead of sub-mm slices in no time.



Rick


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## grahapes (Jan 13, 2013)

I bought the artifex 210 in 52100, haven't seen many ultimatum's available in any other flavors of steel other than aeb-l, and aogami. 

Despite being basic and ugly, I grew to love my richmond 240 tall gyuto, despite an inability to hold a steep edge for any long period of time. 

I also grew to love my 270 fujiwara fkh, despite being stickier than Elmer glue. 

I have not holed the kohetsu hap40 un my hand but profile seems up swept with a fair amount of belly and not much flat.


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

Okay, the Akifusa isn't entirely flat- there's a very small belly.  But it has a very long flat spot from the heel about 75% up towards the tip.

My Ultimatum is M390 but sadly there will probably never be any more.  The steel is hard to get and company that Mark was working with to OEM has gone out of business (Lamson & Goodnow- there was a big flood that did more damage than they could really recover from).


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

I'm afraid my eyes are deceiving me and my memory is being creative.  I thought I'd heard it mentioned the Akifusa was slightly curved for the entire length, and the way the Kagero is pictured it looks that way.  Funny the Kramer causes me the same illusion of curvature, and I know it has been said they are dead-flat most of the length.  In both knives I notice there are similarities in the way the handle lines up with the spine, that could be doing it to me.

I know from my work in baseball mechanics that everyone's spacial perception behaves differently, oh well sorry for going OT there.

Rick


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

Lamson and Goodnow are not out of business. They have moved to Westfield. So no longer in Shelburne Falls but still in business. The flood prompted a long desired move to a one floor facility.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Hopefully their QC will improve. It seems they were getting complaints from everyone.



Rick


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

chefwriter said:


> Lamson and Goodnow are not out of business. They have moved to Westfield. So no longer in Shelburne Falls but still in business. The flood prompted a long desired move to a one floor facility.


That's great to hear!


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