# Bechamel Sauce



## keelenorth (Aug 12, 2003)

Hi I used to woek for a family run Italian Hot Table / Catering Place ,They used to make a Bechamel sauce to go into their lasagna ,I know they used a pound of butter and a litre /quart of milk ,but I cannot for the life of me remember how much flour they would have used ! Can anybody help me ?


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Yo Keel,

Bechamel is ordinarily made with roughly equal parts of butter and flour.  The normal ratio for a light bechamel made with 1 qt milk is  1/4 cup each flour (~1 oz) and butter (2 oz).  Although a little extra butter can be a good thing, a pound, or kilo of butter per liter of milk sounds very wrong.  Is it possible they used one stick? 

BDL


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## amazingrace (Jul 28, 2006)

The bechamel sauce I make at home is 2-2-2:  2Tbs butter, 2Tbs flour, 2Cups milk.  If I need more sauce than what that yields,  I go 3-3-3, or 4-4-4 etc.  Works for me.  Of course in a commercial setting you might need to make a greater volume of sauce at a time,  but the ratios would not change much, if at all.


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

The Bechamel sauce is a Mother sauce that is a starter sauce for other sauces. When most Chefs make a Bechamel sauce it will be a bit loose, so when making a Cheddar cheese sauce or Mornay sauce the cheese will thicken the sauce to the consistency the Chef needs for the dish.If your replacing the Ricotta mixture with the Bechamel, I would make the Bechamel a bit thicker so it stays where you want it. You can thicken the Bechamel with more blond Roux or some cheese that you may think will compliment the dish......................Take care and good luck......ChefBillyB


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## keelenorth (Aug 12, 2003)

You Know what it might have been ,She may have 1Lb butter & 3 Litres (Bags) of milk & the lb of butter,


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

Keelenorth said:


> You Know what it might have been ,She may have 1Lb butter & 3 Litres (Bags) of milk & the lb of butter,


That sounds better. Converting the milk from metric, that's about a gallon (16 cups). The butter is 32 Tb, and the flour the same (1 pound). Per 2 Tb butter and 2 Tb flour, that yields 1 cup milk. That's a very thick bechamel, but using it as a base for a lot of things that's not unreasonable.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Something isn't right .If they used as you state 1 pound of butter, the finished product would have been topped with oil or butter fat from the  butter. Based on 1 qt of milk. If they used the flour in proportion to the amount of butter and only 1 qt.milk , they would have wound up with wallpaper paste not a sauce. BDL" s ratio is more in line


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## keelenorth (Aug 12, 2003)

Yes I agree it was 3 quarts of milk or up here in O'Canada 3 x1 Litre Bags /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

AmazingGrace's proportions are bog standard, just like mine.  Your revised memory of 1 lb of butter to 3L of milk is still way too much butter.  1 lb of butter should handle 2 gal (about 7L) of milk on the nosey.  Remember, you're going for velvety, not (as Ed warned against) greasy concrete.  Maybe those bags of milk were 2L instead of 1.  

BDL


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## skatz85 (Mar 3, 2010)

i work at intalian spot and we make our bechemel wit a 1# buttter, about 12 oz flour and gallon of milk. i usually eye it out and it turn out good. dont forget the the onion pique and nutmeg. i never seen a lasagna being made wit bechemel though, we just use bolagnaise and ricotta, and a mixtureof  pecorino and parm .


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Greek style Lasagna(Mousaka), seafood lasagna, vege lasagna all made with bechamel. French border Bolognaise finished with heavy cream or light Bechamel


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

I'm no expert, but my understanding is that within Italy, the use or non-use of bechamel in lasagne is as much regional as it is about ingredients.

It's the same thing with the use of certain cheeses in certain dishes, or use of beans or tomatoes or bread or farro or pasta, and so on. Americans tend to forget (if they ever knew) that "Italy" isn't all one thing -- it's a hodgepodge of very different regional peoples who only sort of share a language, much less a cuisine. This is why it's silly to get het up about things like the use of cheese with fish, for example, which the morons on Chopped scream about as inauthentic in all Italian food --- which means, apparently, that Sicily and Naples are inauthentic. I suspect there are people in Italy who would agree, who'd say that Sicilians and Neapolitans are not, in fact, Italian, but I don't know that we ought to get into ancient fights like that.

Anyway, yes, go ahead and use bechamel in lasagne if you like it.


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

ChrisLehrer said:


> I'm no expert, but my understanding is that within Italy, the use or non-use of bechamel in lasagne is as much regional as it is about ingredients.
> 
> It's the same thing with the use of certain cheeses in certain dishes, or use of beans or tomatoes or bread or farro or pasta, and so on. Americans tend to forget (if they ever knew) that "Italy" isn't all one thing -- it's a hodgepodge of very different regional peoples who only sort of share a language, much less a cuisine. This is why it's silly to get het up about things like the use of cheese with fish, for example, which the morons on Chopped scream about as inauthentic in all Italian food --- which means, apparently, that Sicily and Naples are inauthentic. I suspect there are people in Italy who would agree, who'd say that Sicilians and Neapolitans are not, in fact, Italian, but I don't know that we ought to get into ancient fights like that.
> 
> Anyway, yes, go ahead and use bechamel in lasagne if you like it.


Yeah, Chris, i think there was a thread about it some time ago, in fact, i think i started that thread asking how ricotta got into lasagne in the states, when i've never encountered it in italy. I imagine there is some place where they use ricotta.

Generally, though it's made all over italy, people here associate lasagne with bologna and emilia romagna in general, but of course there are variations even in the bechamel lasagne.

About the people who would like the north to secede, oh well. Someone made a funny poster for federalism in italy, except they divided it vertically, east and west!


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## phillipo (Jul 5, 2010)

Great posts!

I had no idea italians were soooooooooooo regional till i worked for them! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif

If anyone has any menu suggestions from the FURLAN / FRULANI region of Italy,id appreciate them,thanks. The word "Casalinga" springs to mind..../img/vbsmilies/smilies/confused.gif


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## gobblygook (Aug 26, 2010)

Is Bechamel meant to be served without seasonings, or is it S&P to taste?  The recipe seems like a bland version of southern (US) milk gravy.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

The way I learned how to make it many, many years ago was add a studded onion to the sauce while it is cooking plus salt and White pepper. A studded onion is a small onion with a Bay leaf attached to it with a Clove holding the Bay leaf. with a slight pinch of Nutmeg. I have made it this way all my life.


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## keelenorth (Aug 12, 2003)

I remember them adding grated nutmeg !


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## keelenorth (Aug 12, 2003)

Yes This is what Im talkin about !/img/vbsmilies/smilies/bounce.gif


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

I use salt and black pepper (or white pepper if someone else insists) to taste, plus a bit of freshly grated nutmeg. If I don't feel like looking in a cookbook, I use 1 tablespoon each of flour and butter to a cup of milk. If a thicker sauce is needed, I make a quick beurre manie and add more fat and flour.

I'd been thinking lately of a focus for a cooking demo, and this discussion has bumped bechamel to the top of the list. There are so many other things it can morph into, not the least of which is homemade macaroni and cheese. My audience is home cooks (as I am), so I think this will be interesting to them.


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

phillipo said:


> Great posts!
> 
> I had no idea italians were soooooooooooo regional till i worked for them! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif
> 
> If anyone has any menu suggestions from the FURLAN / FRULANI region of Italy,id appreciate them,thanks. The word "Casalinga" springs to mind..../img/vbsmilies/smilies/confused.gif


Friuli is the region in the north-east, and is highly influenced by austrian cooking - canederli (huge bread and speck (smoked prosciutto) dumplings), and other stuff like that. I'm not an expert in this at all, just went there a couple of times and I have some cookbooks. I liked the food but it goes well with the cold climate of the alps - never felt quite right here in hot rome. If you want a recipe for something you remember, i can look it up. Start a new thread.

casalinga means housewife, so any recipe that's casalingo is home-style (a' la bonne femme).


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## bobbleheadbob (Apr 30, 2010)

Many years ago I ate at a place called Restoranti Antipasti in Ocean City Maryland and they served what they called Timballo. It was a lasagna style dish with red sauce and Bechamel sauce. The did 6 cups milk, 2 TB butter, 2 TB flour a pinch of nutmeg and salt & pepper.

I have included a link to Foodnetwork and the recipe

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/the-best-of/timballo-recipe/index.html

enjoy

Bobbleheadbob


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

bobbleheadbob,

My inlaws used to make timballo - but they put tomato sauce, small meatballs, peas and tomato sauce in the pasta, tons of parmigiano and then mixed in an egg or two so it would get firm and unmold easily. It was too dry though, for my taste, because of the egg. It's nice if you line the bowl with fried eggplant slices.



bobbleheadbob said:


> Many years ago I ate at a place called Restoranti Antipasti in Ocean City Maryland and they served what they called Timballo. It was a lasagna style dish with red sauce and Bechamel sauce. The did 6 cups milk, 2 TB butter, 2 TB flour a pinch of nutmeg and salt & pepper.
> 
> I have included a link to Foodnetwork and the recipe
> 
> ...


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Bob,

Have you tried making the recipe yourself using those proportions?  That's very little roux for that much milk, not nearly enough to make it nappe, and I would think not enough to register in terms of structure and mouthfeel, let alone thickness.  The recipe amounts as posted on the FN website could be a typo.  Or, I could be wrong. 

BDL


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## halmstad (May 17, 2010)

i always use 2 oz butter and 2 oz flour(both by weight) to make the roux and add 1 qt cold whole milk. works perfectly every time.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Originally Posted by *halmstad* 


> i always use 2 oz butter and 2 oz flour(both by weight) to make the roux and add 1 qt cold whole milk. works perfectly every time.


Perfection is in the spoon of the beholder. 8 tbs flour and 4 tbs of butter in 4 cups of milk, may be perfect will make a very stiff bechamel with some potential for graininess and clumping.

2 ounces of flour by weight, is equal to rougly 4 ounces by volume.

Conceptualizing bechamel quantities in units of volume is usually easier than units of weight because the amounts of butter and flour in units of volume are _usually_ kept equal to the amount of butter in order to create a "velvet" textured bechamel. Furthermore, the ratio of 1 tbs butter, 1 tbs flour, 1 cup milk (2 tbs butter, 2 tbs flour, 1 pint milk; 1/2 stick butter, 1/4 cup flour, 1 qt milk) proportion is a very versatile, very smooth, medium nappe.

It's more useful I think to view it not as a question of, "Is it perfect?" It's rather more, "Perfect for what?"

BDL


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## stewnazi (Dec 6, 2010)

Wow!  New user onboard and very inspired to see such diverse topics with many complementary views on what works best in a variety of food types, recipes, and kitchens. I have found my Nirvana - and it ain't Teen Spirit!


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## amazingrace (Jul 28, 2006)

Welcome, StewNazi.  I think you will find that in addition to the vast knowledge and wisdom in these forums,  you will also be impressed by the respect that the members show to one another.  I hope you will visit often and contribute to the discussions.


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## danvis65 (Nov 16, 2010)

Halmstad has it,

  A textbook Roux is equal parts by WEIGHT of flour and liquid fat. That's just textbook though. As said in here if you play with it you will get different results depending on what you want. Important to remember also is if your liquid is hot make sure your roux is cold. If roux is hot make sure liquid is cold. Otherwise you will get lumps (Grandma's famous lumpy gravy anyone?) lol.

 I think the safe way here would be to heat up Half & Half (milk will break/separate). The amount you will need. And then just thicken it with cooled down roux to your desired thickness. And always let the sauce simmer for atleast 20-30 minutes to lose the graininess of the flour. That is with both cooked and uncooked roux (Beurre Manie a.k.a. ******* Roux).

    MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!  Dan


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## homemadecook (Jan 27, 2010)

Keelenorth said:


> I remember them adding grated nutmeg !


I also do this always to my Bechamel sauce or even in my white sauces, this really helps sauces makes taste better.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

danvis65 said:


> Halmstad has it,
> 
> A textbook Roux is equal parts by WEIGHT of flour and liquid fat. That's just textbook though. As said in here if you play with it you will get different results depending on what you want. Important to remember also is if your liquid is hot make sure your roux is cold. If roux is hot make sure liquid is cold. Otherwise you will get lumps (Grandma's famous lumpy gravy anyone?) lol.
> 
> ...


I have experienced the opposite. I use milk, which is traditional for bechamel. I warm the milk up so it's hot, not simmering or scalding. Then I melt the butter in a seperate pot and add the flour and cook it until it's glossy and the raw flour flavor goes away. I then add the hot milk a few cups at a time and I get no lumps at all, even with barely minimal stirring with a whisk. It takes about 5 minutes to make and I use a half gallon of whole milk, 1 cup + 4tbsp flour, and 2 sticks butter ratio, and then I temper in 2 beaten eggs. All the ingredients are organic which makes a huge difference. I grate in plenty of nutmeg and salt to taste. I can eat this in a bowl like a soup!! I just made some yesterday for my pasticcio recipe and my favorite part is eating all the remnants of bechamel from the pot.

You can also add cheese to your bechamel, in fact bechamel is the basis for any good mac n' cheese recipe. Unless I'm making that, I like my bechamel as is, just milky buttery nutmegy deliciousness. I pour over pasticcio or moussaka and then sprinkle the top with parmesan cheese and breadcrumbs and bake until deep golden. Love the crunchy skin.

It's not necessary to use half & half or cream, not that you can't, but it's not necessary. My Mother used to make bechamel with 1% milk and by golly she was able to make it creamy as all heck, but don't ask me how!


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

I never heard of putting eggs in a True Bechamel. Only time I whip in eggs is in a cream soup, this was commonly called a Laisson which both made soup richer and smoother.Today this is rarely done because of salmonella fears and raw eggs. Whenever I made a Bechamel when finished I always passed thru a sieve for quality sake and no possibility of any lumping and covered with a piece of buttered parchment paper so it would not form a skin on top.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

You can add eggs or egg yolks to a béchamel, but as Ed points out the result is no longer a true béchamel. I do that when using the sauce for croque-monsieurs. If you add eggs and grated gruyère then it becomes a "Sauce Mornay".

I never heat the milk. Funny that some books say you have to heat the milk, some say you need a thermal shock between roux and milk (cold milk on hot roux or hot milk on cold roux), some books say you have to pour the milk very slowly while others recommend putting the final quantity of milk all at once.

I've always made béchamel by melting butter, adding about as much flour as the butter will absorb (without measuring), then adding as much cold milk as desired depending on the consistency I want. Usually I first add very little milk and make sure it's integrated with the roux, then I pour all the remaining milk at once and cook it until thickened. Never had problems with lumps really. I'm pretty sure if you do another method it would probably work just fine as well.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

French Fries I never measure and and do it same way you do.(( measuring the flour is not accurate because flour milled and packed at different seasons of year have different qualities and will absorb different amounts )) I do it by touch and looking at roux while cooking.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Ed Buchanan said:


> French Fries I never measure and and do it same way you do.(( measuring the flour is not accurate because flour milled and packed at different seasons of year have different qualities and will absorb different amounts )) I do it by touch and looking at roux while cooking.


Exactly. And not all butters are the same either, some contain more fat than others.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Adding egg is not the simplest truest form of bechamel, but it is put in often.  When I make bechamel for pasticcio or moussaka I make more than the recipe actually asks for, usually double the amount.  I just happen to like a lot of creamy bechamel on top.  Adding the egg helps it set a little stiffer so that it does sit on top of the noodles and not seep into the bottom layers.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Koukovagia !  

It is not put in often, because then it is not a Bechamel, it becomes something else.       If I add cheese, now it becomes a Mornay & is not called or is it a Bechamel. If I add Burgundy and Mushrooms to a Brown or Espanole it becomes a different thing.

If I add meat to a Tomato Based Sauce and finish with cream it becomes a Bolognaisse.   Egg is also sometime added to Bechamel in Seafood Lasagna or Vege Lasagna so it helps it set like your Pasticcio does. It stops the cheese from running as well as enriching the product.


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## thinkin big (Dec 29, 2010)

Thanks for the tip on the studded onion!


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## davidkylebantug (Jan 17, 2011)

you can also put nutmeg...you cannot call it bechamel if you do not put nutmeg


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## fryman13 (Mar 24, 2015)

equal parts fat to flour .


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

NO WAY A POUND OF BUTTER TO A QT OF LIQUID AFTER THE FLOUR WAS PUT IN  YOU WOULD HAVE A MESS. I have worked with chefs that add nutmeg or mace and white pepper., and have worked with some who do not . Depends on its use


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## rouxrobot (Feb 20, 2014)

This is more of a traditional bechamel but it is what we use. Sometimes I will omit or substitute the veal but if you are using it as a cold sauce it really is needed in my opinion.

1 lb white roux(8oz clarified butter, 9oz flour)

4.5 quarts of milk

.5 lb lean veal

9g salt

.5g mignonette pepper

.5g grated nutmeg

1 small sprig of thyme

1 minced onion

Pour boiling milk onto cold roux(or vice versa), whisk.

Chop veal into small cubes and fry with butter and onion until cooked without becoming brown.

Add to the sauce, together with the other seasonings.

Simmer for one hour and strain through a fine sieve.

Conversely:

Fry cubed veal with butter and onion.

Add the milk BTB and add the seasonings.

Allow the flavors to infuse for a while and then pour the milk into the roux through a fine sieve

Cook ~15 min.


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## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

Ever wonder how blind people make bechamel? I mean, I could cook a steak, or a myriad of other things without my sight, but béchamel? You'd have to have some serious sensation in your arm and hand to feel the thickening of the sauce, but I guess you could do it. Browning of the butter/fat for a roux? I wouldn't be able to do it without vision. Or with lots o practice. 

I dunno. Makes me wonder.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Sorry chef  a true Béchamel contains no  stock of any kind.


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## rouxrobot (Feb 20, 2014)

chefedb said:


> Sorry chef a true Béchamel contains no stock of any kind.


I assume you are replying to me but there is no stock mentioned. Its also pretty much exactly the same as Escoffier's recipe for bechamel so its about as "true" as it gets.


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## rouxrobot (Feb 20, 2014)

chefedb said:


> Koukovagia !
> 
> It is not put in often, because then it is not a Bechamel, it becomes something else. If I add cheese, now it becomes a Mornay & is not called or is it a Bechamel. If I add Burgundy and Mushrooms to a Brown or Espanole it becomes a different thing.
> 
> If I add meat to a Tomato Based Sauce and finish with cream it becomes a Bolognaisse. Egg is also sometime added to Bechamel in Seafood Lasagna or Vege Lasagna so it helps it set like your Pasticcio does. It stops the cheese from running as well as enriching the product.


Just adding cheese to a bechamel doesn't make it Sauce Mornay for that you add a fumet and specifically Gruyere and Parmesan nor is a Bolognese just sauce tomatee with meat and cream added in. In fact cream is only added if you are using dry pasta and not fresh noodles. Bolognese is a very specific sauce with definitions set up by Accademia Italiana Della Cucina and by the Bolognese delegation of Italian cuisine at the Chamber of Commerce of Bologna. I realize this is being somewhat pedantic but I feel its important to use the correct terminology rather then just throwing names with set definitions around willy nilly.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

RouxRobot said:


> Its also pretty much exactly the same as Escoffier's recipe for bechamel so its about as "true" as it gets.


FWIW, Chef Francois Pierre de la Varenne wrote Le Cuisinier Francois in 1651 and his version of bechamel was flour, butter, and milk. Why is Escoffier's more "true"?


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## rouxrobot (Feb 20, 2014)

cheflayne said:


> FWIW, Chef Francois Pierre de la Varenne wrote Le Cuisinier Francois in 1651 and his version of bechamel was flour, butter, and milk. Why is Escoffier's more "true"?


and Taillevent's from the late 14th century was different as well. I think it is well established the Escoffier is the father of modern cookery and is the standard.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

RouxRobot said:


> and Taillevent's from the late 12th century was different as well.


Could you point me in the direction of a source for Taillevent making bechamel because I am a perpetual student and never tire of culinary learning.

Along those lines I am not sure, but I believe that Taillevent lived in the 1300's; but I need to do more research before stating so unequivocally.


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## rouxrobot (Feb 20, 2014)

cheflayne said:


> Could you point me in the direction of a source for Taillevent making bechamel because I am a perpetual student and never tire of culinary learning.
> 
> Along those lines I am not sure, but I believe that Taillevent lived in the 1300's; but I need to do more research before stating so unequivocally.


My apologies. I meant 14th not 12th; 1300s is correct. I can never remember if you go up or down when changing to centuries. I don't have the books with me as I am at work but Le Viandier de Taillevent is what you would be looking for. If you can speak/read french there are several free versions out there.

I believe Careme's version is slightly different as well.


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## chrisbelgium (Oct 2, 2010)

RouxRobot said:


> This is more of a traditional bechamel but it is what we use. Sometimes I will omit or substitute the veal but if you are using it as a cold sauce it really is needed in my opinion.
> 
> 1 lb white roux(8oz clarified butter, 9oz flour)
> 
> ...


I'm sorry but I really feel like you just copied this recipe from older cookbooks? May I ask what is your own usual method of making béchamel?

And I never ever heard of using béchamel as a cold sauce!


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## rouxrobot (Feb 20, 2014)

ChrisBelgium said:


> May I ask if you make your béchamel that way or are you just copying this recipe from older cookbooks? The exact measurements make me think you are just copying it? I'm a homecook and I never measure anything when making béchamel?
> 
> What is your own usual method of making béchamel?


Yes, its is a traditional recipe but it is what I use when I make bechamel. Pretty much every recipe I use for service has exact measurements. Its the only way to ensure consistency especially since I can't always be the one to make every single item. I think you will find that holds true for every restaurant. Even if I'm just running a special I still make up a recipe.

Try writing down what you are using every time you make it and keep notes on how it turns out. Then compare it to the other notes you have from multiple times making it and you can really get a feel for what affects what.

Bechamel can certainly be a cold sauce and I serve it that way quite often though I most often opt for a white chaud-froid instead. I think you would find it much more flavorful if you tried it like I posted instead of the roux, milk, salt, and pepper sauce most people seem to think it is which to me is no more than a white pepper gravy. A bechamel should have much more depth especially when being served cold since flavors become muted when cold.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

WOW.


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## chrisbelgium (Oct 2, 2010)

RouxRobot said:


> Yes, its is a traditional recipe but it is what I use when I make bechamel. Pretty much every recipe I use for service has exact measurements. Its the only way to ensure consistency especially since I can't always be the one to make every single item. I think you will find that holds true for every restaurant. Even if I'm just running a special I still make up a recipe.
> 
> Try writing down what you are using every time you make it and keep notes on how it turns out. Then compare it to the other notes you have from multiple times making it and you can really get a feel for what affects what.
> 
> Bechamel can certainly be a cold sauce and I serve it that way quite often though I most often opt for a white chaud-froid instead. I think you would find it much more flavorful if you tried it like I posted instead of the roux, milk, salt, and pepper sauce most people seem to think it is which to me is no more than a white pepper gravy. A bechamel should have much more depth especially when being served cold since flavors become muted when cold.


Thanks RR, it's nice to hear from a perfectionist how precise they work in their kitchen. Consistency is so important to keep clients happy.

Interesting twist using cold béchamel and I can imagine you need to add a lot more flavor to it than normal.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Chris I believe Sauce Chaud Froid starts with a béchamel of soughts ith either chicken, veal or fish stock( called Veloute) and is used cold.. I make mine like yours except I use a studed whole onion or half of one with a bay leaf and a clove holding it. I do not use veal cubes


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## steve tphc (Sep 18, 2012)

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Lasagna is different through out Italy. I like all varieties but prefer Lasagna di Ricotta Romana. This is a variety that uses a rich flavorful tomato-guanciale garlic sauce and a white sauce fortified with finely ground Parmigiano. The sheet pasta is layered in many thin layers. My version includes no meat, no eggs, no greens but five cheeses: Parmigiano Reggiano, Asiago, Romano, ricotta, and buffalo mozzarella.

For the sauce, use Elena's http://passionatehomecook.blogspot.com/2012/09/elenas-tomato-sauce-with-salt-pork.html
[justify]Roman Style Lasagna or Lasagna Romana[/justify]
While most dishes from Rome are called Romano, this treasure woman is considered feminine hence referred to as Romana. It is distinguished by having both red and white sauce. This recipe uses five cheeses and Elena's sauce or Marinara Sauce 2 and Italian White Sauce with Cheese. As most of the cheeses have salt, it is important not to substitute commercial prepared sauces for the homemade ones. If were not careful the dish could easily become excessively salty. As the dish cooks, the excess moisture is absorbed by the dry pasta; hence precooking the pasta is not needed. The lasagna is traditionally five layers but the no law against four or six. If you want a more elegant lasagna, the layers can be made with thinner pasta and less material per layer. If really thick, cover the top layer for the first 25 minutes of cooking to prevent the top for excessive browning, as the cooking time will need to be extended. Extended cooking time could have the effect of making the pasta softer less "al dente" so do not go too thick. Wider and longer is a better way or simple make two pans.
[justify]The size of the pan determines how many layers you can assemble without running out of ingredients. The amounts of ingredients are adequate for a 9 inches x 13 pan. If you are making a much bigger lasagna, double the amounts of everything. Having extra sauce and cheese is ok as these can be reused and or frozen. Dry pasta can be saved in a large zip lock bag. You need red sauce enough to cover the top layer so stop building layers before you run out. As we build layers, try not top overlap the pasta on the same layer. Lightly oil the bottom of a large deep rectangular baking pan. Put three large kitchen spoonfuls of sauce on the bottom of the pan. Swirl the sauce it around evenly. Place dry pasta on top of this. Add tablespoons of ricotta cheese here and there. Add a handful of grated mozzarella cheese, and some each of the other cheeses. Add some white sauce followed by additional red sauce. Add more pasta and repeat the process. If you run out of white sauce, it's ok. On the top layer, add red sauce, followed by Asiago, Romano and Parmigiano followed by some bread crumbs. Add a few grindings of pepper. Drizzle with good olive oil. Bake 45 minutes until bubbly hot and slightly browned on top.[/justify]


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## cheeseburgers (Mar 27, 2015)

Had to register and post just because I tried a bechamel based lasagne for the first time the other day. I used a bolognese sauce recipe my granndmother sent me (I think she got it from the new york times). Then I tried to consult a few recipes to figure out a strategy for the bechamel sauce. None of the recipes I found added any cheese to the sauce, but I just couldn't bring myself not to. So I dropped in some shredded mozzarella, and layered it bolognese-noodles-bolognese-bechamel-bolognese-provolone slices-noodles,etc.. Think I put some parm on top. It was _amazing!_

I find the inconsistency on the roux/milk temperature issue kind of frustrating, but since I've never really gotten any lumps with cold milk/hot roux and it seems easiest, I'll probably stick with that.

Had dumb question pop into my head as I was making a different sauce the other day. Would you ever add flour to liquid to thicken it up, or would it not get hot enough to cook out the raw flour taste?


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

This thread is becoming so random.


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## dfgd (Mar 21, 2015)

So, tirimasu?


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## chrisbelgium (Oct 2, 2010)

chefedb said:


> Chris I believe Sauce Chaud Froid starts with a béchamel of soughts ith either chicken, veal or fish stock( called Veloute) and is used cold.. I make mine like yours except I use a studed whole onion or half of one with a bay leaf and a clove holding it. I do not use veal cubes


I thought that a chaud-froid was always made with a velouté (roux + stock) + cream + gelatin. But when you think of it, a béchamel could indeed be used as well instead of a velouté.

Many times I make a béchamel as usual (roux + milk) and add a tsp of bouillon paste. Works so well!


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Koukouvagia said:


> This thread is becoming so random.


:level: :beer:

mimi


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