# its all about the complaining



## dudethatsmine (Mar 15, 2008)

i scanned a lot of post from diffrent websites beside this and it has come to the conclusion that this industry likes to ***** a lot about there work about the long hours, low recognition tiresome work and low pay but cant that explain almost any job specially blue collar jobs. All the high paying ones are the ones you have to go to school for 6 years for and even then your not makeing that much money out of school yes youll be makeing 60k a year on your first job but thats not that much when you got 120k tuition or more some medical fields are like 300k tuition. 

I consider my dad as one of the hardest working men i know he wakes up at 4 in the morning commutes everyday one hour and a half drive comes home 9 at night and does side jobs for extra money and is on call 20 hours a day to come in if they need him you know how much it sucks to come home and then
get called in back to work ive never herd the man ***** once in his life and has been doing it for 33 years do i know why he does it his family.

what i am trying to get at here is i hear all the things that people hate in this industry and how its such hard work but thats almost all jobs theres always something bad about a labor job. I want to start hearing what the pros like about there job in food i mean it cant just be all about so you can brag about how stressfull it is to scare off newbies lol.

I just want to add one more thing in to this post !!WHATS UP WITH THE CULINARY SCHOOLS CHARGING SO MUCH FOR A TRADE THAT PAYS 19k A YEAR STARTING OUT!! is the world really becoming that criminal i mean look at the CIA the poor kids are trying to become cooks and there paying the tuition of a doctor are u fing serious and J&W is no better. Look at all the other trade professions out there they are still apprentice based accept cooking now thanks food network and bobby flay. I wonder what will happen when they make a station called Welding network with celebrity welders Bobby flay, Anthony hypocrit, and Ratchel ray. IRON WELDERS omg mom i wanna be a IRON WELDER now not a IRON CHEF thats so last year WELL OK BOBBY BUT FIRST GET YOUR WELDING BACH degree sorry i am ranting now lol. So anyway tell me what you like about this field what keeps you waking up everyday and doing what you do beside for paying the bills.

and yes i do have a interest taking up cooking as a profession.


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## ryaninayr (Nov 29, 2006)

Personally speaking, I don't have a vast amount of working in the industry. I've just recently finished school from LCB, and I've been working in the industry for about a year, even doing some volunteer events on the side. Yes, it is a lot of work with very little pay, but at the end of the day, I still want to do it. I just recently got a job at a fine dining restaurant, and I plan on keeping my other job as well. 

After all, cooking IS the most self-gratifying job there is. 

As far as schools go, braising is braising poaching is poaching no matter where you go; whether it be Cordon Bleu, CIA, J&W or even your local community college. They don't really teach you how to be a chef anyways. They teach you how to be a cook; how to use basic techniques. It is up to you to fine tune those techniques and take them to different levels. The same is with flavor profiles. It is all trial and error.

Personally, I sort of regret going to LCB, because It was an accelerated program, and I felt I got robbed. I wish it was more than 1 year. They also didn't teach me anything I didn't already know from watching T.V. But don't let me discourage you; you might like it.

But yeah, I'm only 19 years old, and I already love what I'm doing, and I can see myself doing this for a very, very long time.

- Ryan


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## ras1187 (Oct 3, 2006)

My sentiments exactly (from a fellow LCB grad).

From my observation, the people that tend to complain alot are the people that joined culinary school thinking "I'm gonne be the next Emeril, BAM!" They do not want to get their hands dirty, do not want to work late nights and weekends, and definitely do not want to be making 19k/year starting off.

The reason that those of us that have stayed and survived in this industry stress the hard work, long hours, little pay to perspective students is to keep people like that from making a huge mistake and running flat into the wall when they come up to that huge reality check.


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## kali the foodie (Feb 7, 2008)

The industry is rough, no doubt. I just started and I sigh everytime I get in my car to go home and the clock reads 12 or 1, and I know I'll be waking up in 4-5 hours because my fiance needs a ride to work, and we can only afford one car so I have to take him. Then off to my low-tech small culinary school, a place that makes me feel like I should be paid as an instructor because I'm having to correct my half senile teacher half the time. 
But the tuition is only 450 dollars a quarter, and ast least I get the oppurtunity to use a professional-ish kitchen and make things I wouldn't normally think to make at home. I get to be in a room full of people that love food and that is what drove me to it in the first place.
As for the restaurant, I am paying my dues. I plan on being a personal chef, where the hours and the money are much better, and I get to be a little more creative. In the meantime, I'm gaining experience and hopefully building a good reputation.
In spite of your apparent disdain for Anthony Bourdain, you should really read Kitchen Confidential. It will give you the perspective that you are looking for. Think what you want of him, but the book will help you decide if you can take the heat in the kitchen industry.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

There are many sides to this industry, all trades are hard and have rough hours. But think of this: You have a plumbing problem, plumber charges $35/hr and a transport fee. Either you put up and shut up or you have a plumbing problem. Same for an electrician, gas fitter, hospital, or finishing carpenter.

With food it's a different story. You don't want to pay $50 for a nice meal, you find a cheaper place, you don't want to pay $10 for a a meal and you find an even cheaper place, don't want to pay $5 for a meal and you go to Safeway and buy ingredients. 

We're in North America, cowboys and sheriffs may be long gone but the mentality stilles lives on. Anyone can be a "chef", just need a poofy white hat that's all. Anyone can teach anyone to be a cook, just need a classroom, that's all. Completely different story for plumbers, electricians, doctors, lawyers, etc. These trades and professions are regulated by government and have powerfull unions/associations to protect their reputations and salaries. Neither the U.S. nor Canada will take the "second oldest trade", Cook, seriously. There are no standards or regulations to adhere to. Unions are a joke and only exist to garnishee wages, professional bodies exist to only to offer a multitude of regional standards, and are influeneced by private corporations. 

In Europe it's usually a three year apprenticeship for a cook (not Chef, cook, during this time you are an apprentice cook, not apprentice Chef, upon completion of apprenticehip you are a Cook, not Chef), and usually a two year apprenticeship for a waiter/waitress. Yes, that's right. A two year apprenticeship for waiter. Cook and waiter are respected trades, not something to get you through college so you can find a "real job" afterwards, or to keep you fed and sheltered until you're discovered by some movie talent agent....

Salaries and respect for cooking don't come from the employer, they come from the source of money. No, not the bank or some kind of Gov't institution, the money comes from the customer.

Educate the N. American customer and some of the problems will dissapear...


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## the_seraphim (Dec 25, 2006)

foodpump... i dont know where in europe your going to... but i havent seen a single apprenticeship in my field... ive only been in the field 3 years but still... 

oh and i just worked it out.... im on a 19k salary!!!! that takes the biscuit (thats 19k dollars, its 10400 in my own great british pounds...) but when my son is born in april i get about £500 a month from the government because i work and am on a low wage... 

when i get better, get an exec chef/ head chef position (and i will get there i dont care how long it takes...) ill have apprenticeship positions... try and help some other cooks move into and up the ladder...

but until then, i have to settle for my low wage, horrid hours, hard work, hot environment with no respect from anyone except my peers and the few truly grateful customers who make a point to say thanks.


btw... 1200 covers on sunday night,£10($20) - £15($30) a head on average before drinks/desserts and we took £30 tips... total, at least thats what the waitresses/waiters admit to... kitchen gets 10% (i think it should be closer to 50% but thats just me)

people in my town just arent grateful.


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## 24-7cook (Oct 29, 2007)

I left the white collar life of a stock broker for the life of a chef. When I am interviewing a potential apprentice chef I inform them of the low pay, long hours, rampant drug abuse and alcoholism and high divorce rate. In fact I do everything in my power to talk them out of wanting to become a chef. I tell them of the stress, the physical and mental fatigue of 80-90 hour work weeks. I will not lie to you there are days when I think to myself why in the world did I ever open Pandora's box. I have never had one ounce of regret 
The kitchen is a lover who's touch will forever haunt me. The thirst that will never be quenched. My first thought every morning is food and it is my last at night.


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## kali the foodie (Feb 7, 2008)

I totally agree with you 24/7. I am not yet a chef, but I cannot resist the siren no matter how much I hear about or have to endure the hardships. All I can think about is how good food is and how I can make it better.


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## montelago (Nov 19, 2007)

We're not b***hing. Talking about your hardships with people who understand is cathartic. It builds a sense of community and comraderie. Sometimes talking to the wife is not enough, because she just doesn't fully grasp the job. Talking to folks who sweat it out every night along with you just offers a little relief, mentally and spiritually. I would say to a man, (or woman) on this website, we all really love what we do and wouldn't trade it if we could. Some of us have tried, and came back anyway. I would never be in another business. I love the stress, the adrenaline, the friendships, the creativity, the appreciation of happy guests.


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## chefbrianb (Mar 19, 2008)

24-7 and Montelago pretty much hit it. People ***** about work to destress and connect with others in similar situations. Drew Carey had a funny bit about it. When talking to a friend who was complaining about his job he said (roughly) Oh yeah, you hate your job...I think there's a support group for that it's called EVERYBODY! They hold daily meetings at 5:00 at this placed call THE BAR. None the less most chef's love, eat, breathe, sleep, and completely obsess about food. (The better one's anyway.) And yes it can be brutally hard work. I have told many a cook that if they are not in love/obsessed with food I feel sorry for them because their job must really suck. That they should probably try and find a different one! Being a chef isn't something you are taught it's something you are and if you need someone to explain why it's a good thing despite all the bitching maybe you don't get it.


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## chefbrianb (Mar 19, 2008)

One last quick comment about the cost of culinary school. Some of the best cooks/chefs I've met/worked with came from community college programs or never even went to culinary school. Worked with and fired enough mediocre CIA and J&W grads to realize that it's the individual and their experience that counts not the school they went to. Personally the route that worked best for me was no school, buy every decent cook book I could afford, buy ingredients, spend all available free time reading/cooking, and work with the best chefs I could. Total school cost: zero. You don't need pricey "Ivy League" cooking school to succeed. Just my 2 cents.


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## jbd (Mar 17, 2008)

Have you ever considered what the costs are to teach/educate the students? Things like food/ingredients. Equipment purchases and maintainance. Employee salaries and benefits. Facility costs and maintainance. Marketing expenses. Utilities. Insurance. The list goes on and on.


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## kali the foodie (Feb 7, 2008)

If it's so expensive to educate, than why can't we go back to the whole apprenticeship idea. I'm pretty sure everyone says it's the individual that makes the chef, not the school. What's the point then, really?


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## dudethatsmine (Mar 15, 2008)

just a update i guess about me i am really considering the navy route going through the ACF program in the navy sounds really good to me and a lot of hard work but thats what i want to be put through. Any comments about this idea would be nice. And i do think having military experience on a resume is looked at very nicely rite?.

thanks for your 2cents chefbrian


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## chefbrianb (Mar 19, 2008)

Dude/Kali I think I can respond to both in tandem. Apprentice system is fully alive and well, if not formally called so. Finding a job in the best kitchen you can to learn is the essence of apprentice. While we have no formal system for it the essence is still there. Starting out you make next to no money (because no offense you don't have much technically to offer) and in exchange for your hard work you gain knowledge more so than money. As you gain skills and knowledge you also get more financial reward. Then you have the option to move on and learn from others or stay put with a chef you believe in until "the student becomes the master". The military is another path to go down in the same apprentice type arena. Certainly one would be answering to authorities to guide and teach them. Same scenario different situation. And yes, if I see military on a resume I assume the applicant has some discipline and respect for authority and I am more likely to hire them.


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## jbd (Mar 17, 2008)

Personally I think that is an excellent idea, but I'm retired military so I may have a skewed opinion . 

Much of the training in the military will earn college level credits. Combine this with an opportunity to earn ACF certifications and I don't think you can have anything but a winning situation. Having said that, please research the Navy thing thoroughly. Make absolutely sure you understand what you are getting into. You have a right to know what the Navy expects of you and what you can expect from the Navy in the way of training and educational benefits including how you will recieve ACF qualifications.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Good question. Here's an even better question:

In an apprenticeship situation, who will train the trainees? Who has the skills, experience, knowledge, patience, and understanding to train up a newbie? The K.M at Applebee's? The ESL immigrant salad cook who can make a wicked clubhouse and not much else?

You need to follow the "4-T rule": Trained Trainers Training the Trainees, and there aren't enough trained trainers around here, just a lot of wannabe "Chefs".

How do you define "Chef" ? Well, that's a pretty hot topic, and in N. America you can't define "Chef". Heck, there aren't even any national standards or qualifications to define Chef.

Yes, cooking schools are expensive, being a Chef is still "hot" right now, so the market responds to the demand and charges according to demand. And why not? Cooking isn't a regulated trade, it's not recognized by any trade industry or Gov't. So the schools can do whatever they want to do--pump out " fully trained chefs"--no previous experience required-- in as little as 6 mths. Anyone can design a curriculum, there are no standards to follow. It's a sure thing, no one can complain, because there IS no one to complain, except the eejits who take the courses and find out they've been hosed--Caveat emporium and all that, right?

Check out the Community Colleges, they aren't too bad, matter of fact, they're pretty darn good. 

If you want to learn on the job, remember this fact: There are no guarantees that what you learn on the job is the correct way of doing things, no guarantee that who ever is showing you knows what he/she is doing. With a school you have some modicum of a guarantee that what you're shown is the right way of doing things. In other words, the "4 T's" all over again.


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## jbd (Mar 17, 2008)

Either system can turn out an excellent cook or baker. Pretty much all of what I know about cooking and baking is self taught although with the baking I had more on the job training somewhat like an informal apprenticeship. The shortcoming, IMO, was that I was limited to learning that particular bakery's product lines. Cooking was much more self taught working in various restaurants. Again exposure was limited to any given restaurants offerings. One of my daughters on the other hand graduated from CIA in 2007 and she has a far superior exposure to different cuisines and foods than I could ever achieve in the same amount of time. I remember her calling me one day when they were studying seafood, fish in particular. Each student was given something like 10 2-3 oz servings of various fish to taste with discussion of the flavor, texture and other qualities of each species. They may have done this for 2 or 3 days but I would have to check with her to make sure that is correct. They talked about where each species was found around the world. I worked in a seafood restaurant and all we ever prepared was the same fried fish, fried frog legs, fried shrimp, fried hush puppies, french fries and coleslaw. There I learned to follow the owners method of production and nothing more. Nothing about flavor, texture, fat content seasoning or other cooking methods. 

Such informal training as I have had pales in comparison to the education and training my daughter has. Having just graduated in 2007, she is now working in what she and I call her apprenticeship. She is currently an assistant cook, hoping to become a cook on her next contract and then eventually lead cook and then possibly sous chef after that.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that schooling has given her a stronger broader foundation of knowledge to build on than what I could acquire in the same amount of time via self teaching and informal learning. A truly formal apprenticeship program is not really much different than schooling IMO. I may be incorrect about that though.


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## chefraz (May 10, 2007)

I'd just add "and workers"


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## kali the foodie (Feb 7, 2008)

Dude, I just got out of the Navy, and I can tell you right now nobody cares. My resume is full of pretty little "Look, I done good" stickers and it didn't even get me interviews. You have to meet people, and then give them a good impression. I'm not saying the navy won't help you, the VA is paying for me to go to school right now. And I do hear the culinary program is one of the first jobs in the navy to get civilian equivalent training, which is pretty good. 
I will warn you though, you may not be cooking during your tour of duty. They also use cooks to be in charge of barracks. They see it as tying in "Hotel Management experience" to the job, but really you are just the grunt who makes sure people clean their rooms and don't leave their crap in common areas. It's three years of babysitting, basically. And if you do get a cooking job, it will be on a cramped ship where you will have other duties as well, to include standing watch, painting the ship and scrubbing it as well. So while you will recieve a legite diploma, the military experience will not make you a better cook and unless you are really gung-ho about being part of the NAVY, you will be miserable. Everyone I know who joined for the college money and the "job experience" reasons was or still is miserable, to include myself. 
I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just telling you to do your homework ahead of time and make sure it's something you can handle, it's not the fantastic life your recruiter will make it sound like.


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## kali the foodie (Feb 7, 2008)

I just read all my posts in this thread and realize how bitter I sound. Wow... maybe I'll just shut up now.


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## dudethatsmine (Mar 15, 2008)

thanks for the insight kali i do not think i am expecting any form of military life to be fantastic and glamourus lol i see through the bullshit of recruiters thanks to the insight of my uncle, grandpa and dad that has been in there done that kind of thing. Now will they help pay for a 1 year culinary school program or one of those short programs like ICE 6 months if i wanted ?. Oh and one more question when they send you to a school i see in the culinary arts section that they teach you to tailor and all this other stuff that doesn't have to do with cooking ? am i looking at something wrong?.


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## chef_sijmon (Mar 25, 2008)

I whent to culinary school in sweden for 3 years and here it's "free" it's payd by taxes. 
And i feel ripped off and i dident iven pay i just wasted 3 years of my life.

I'm very serious about my work and i love what i do but i'm not a big fan of the education you get.
When i look back on my three years in school i know i could learn so mutch more with an apprenticeship.

And yes it's hard work and long hour but for me it's life i cant see my self do anything else. 
The year i finished culinary school i did it with around 60 other people in my age and i know for a fact that is only 5 or 6 of us in the business to day, 3years later.
As some one else sad before, you cant teache some one to be a chef its something you born in to.


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## greyeaglem (Apr 17, 2006)

I went to culinary school with a guy who had been a cook in the navy. One day, after a particularly trying morning, I made a comment something to the effect of "Thank God that's over." and he said "Yeah, now how would you like to hit a wave and have it all go on the floor and have to start all over?" I looked at him with total disbelief and horror, and he started laughing and said it was fairly common to have that happen. He said the worst was being on a sub and have it surface suddenly. He was the most respected and knowlegable person in our class. The course was just a formality for him for his resume. The navy is a good teacher. And they pay _you _to learn. I think this is a very good plan for you if you think the military life will suit you. I used to know a guy that was a lifer in the air force and he used to travel with the President and do overseas state dinners. That guy knew a LOT and he wasn't famous, but he sure was impressive. I used to love tossing a few and talking to him. As for why we do this, I don't know. I wish I did. It gets in your blood. I think it's the same way sailors feel about the sea or drivers about racing. I left the industry for 11 years to work in telecom. It paid twice as much, had benefits and I got to sit on my butt making it wider. Thing was, people would ask me what I did and I'd say I was a chef but was working as an overseas phone operator. It was like a part of me was missing. Foodpump has an earlier post that was very well said. There are no apprenticeships in the food industry that are universally recognized like there are for the other trades. The plumber is a good analogy. Therefore there is no respect for the people in our industry and we can't command the wages that other trades do. Anyone can say they're a chef, and who will challenge their claim? There was a discussion a while back on a thread here about that and I caught some flack because some people misunderstood what I was saying. I would like to see industry standards something on the order of boiler makers where you have a class A B or C certification issued on the basis of knowledge and experience.


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## jbd (Mar 17, 2008)

Is that not what the ACF certifications are about?


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## greyeaglem (Apr 17, 2006)

Yes, but that certification is not readily available and it comes at considerable cost to the applicant. Certification is also not required and so basically worthless. Also, it's not clear what knowlege/experience is required for what level of certification. I have tried (unsuccessfully) to research the criteria for different levels.If I wanted certification for say, executive chef, what do I need to know and what experience do I need? Still don't know. I don't want to set up an appointment for a test, pay $1,5oo and drive 130 miles only to find out I'm woefully underqualified to even be taking the test. If our trade were governed like any other, a person could not apply for or hold a position such as executive chef unless they had certification for that level of experience. A person would not be able to B.S. their way in, which happens a lot. This is why we see threads on here about people in this industry who hold management positions even though they don't know the first thing about food handling of safety, much less how to run a kitchen. If they were in an electrician's union, they'd be holding the spool of wire for the person who does know what they're doing. The equivalent of dishwasher in our world.


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## jbd (Mar 17, 2008)

I agree with pretty much all of what you said, but particularly with the quoted line. From what I understood, my daughter who graduated from CIA last year would be eligible for the ACF's certified culinarian certification. When I picked her up at the airport yesterday I asked her about it and she said, "it cost to much and at a time when I'm loaded with debt and not making any money yet".

At this point I'm not sure if she had to only pay a membership fee or if she would have to pay to take the test also. Membership fee might not be too bad, I didn't check into it, but the test fees are significant.

IMO, people graduating from either a school, like CIA, J&W etc, etc, from a formal apprenticeship, should be granted the certified culinarian certificate upon successful completion of their programs. This would be a start, IMO, towards professionalizing the industry. For the people who cannot or did not attend such formal training there needs to be a better process for getting them the information they need so they can prepare for and take those certification tests.

PM sent, I hope it helps.

jbd


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

I have studied the ACF website extensively and have come to two conclusions:
1) As a Canuck, I'm jealous, as we have nothing similiar. Oh we have Chef's federations and associations, but it's each territory to itself.

2) I am thoroughly confused. The ACF has a myriad of Chef titles, and many ways of achieving these titles. What I don't see on that site is any emphasis on the cook.

Cook. I said it again. In N.America it must be some kind of a 4 letter dirty word, the ACF refer to cooks as "culinarians", they've banished the word cook. I'm of the opinion that you can't walk before you can crawl, can't swim before you can tread water, can't become an officer until you go through boot camp, and most importantly, can't become a Chef before you're a competant cook. Yet the qualifications for ACF 's "culinarian" are really pathetic, check them out. 

Yet for Sous Chef and higher titles the ACF demands that the applicant must be in a supervisory postion--that is have people under him. Think about this for a second or two. It's true I am very slanted-biased towards the european method of apprenticeships, and I witnessed first hand the emphasis the Gov'ts put on the training of apprentices: No one can hire or train apprentices without first completing an apprenticeship, and also taking a course giving them the credentials to train apprentices. Trained trainers training the trainees.... Those guys take the job of cooking and training very seriously. 
BUT, according the the ACF, in order to get your Chef title you have to train people, BEFORE taking the exam. Train newbies before demonstrating what you know to the ACF. What guarantees does the trainee have that what he/she is being instructed to do is correct?

This, I feel is the very essence of the problem in N. America regarding our profession. We do need some kind of a national standard, and as with the other trades-plumber, electrican, etc, it has to be Gov't recognised. The ACF is not.


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## Chef W.G (Nov 8, 2001)

Everything you need to know about ACF certification is spelled out on the ACF website here. It tells you clearly the requirements for each level of certification, including how much education you need and work experience, and how to document them. It also tells you what you need to know for the written test , including which books to read and even has practice tests you can take for a fee. It also tells you what you need to prepare for each of the practical exams including the ingredients and amounts. There are even books available through the ACF online bookstore to help out also. My previous employer, my current employer and my future employers require ACF certification. I make more money because I am ACF certified and It is my standard. Finally my initial C.C. certification was done at JWU when I was a student and it only cost me $150. I had to pay the $50 application fee and the $75 fee to take the written exam. JWU paid the cost for the practical which is only the cost of food. I am currently working towards my C.E.C and even if my employer was not paying the costs, it would only cost me $275 or $375 if I was not a member of the ACF.


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## rsteve (May 3, 2007)

d-t-m: I think you're making a very wise decision. The service schools, from everything I've heard, now are excellent. Of course, I'm a bit biased, but dated. In '68-'69 my cooking talents kept me off a many a patrol in Vietnam. I did spend a little time teaching small quantity field cooking while at Fort Lee, Virginia.


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## greyeaglem (Apr 17, 2006)

Many thanks ALynch for your post. Apparently research is not my forte. I have tried many times to find this info on the ACF site and also on various search engines and always draw a blank. Appreciate the help.


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## jbd (Mar 17, 2008)

I did run across two statements on the ACF website that indicated that the US labor department or bureau of labor recognizes cooking as a professional trade or something to that effect. One of the statements indicated that the recognition was made back in 1976.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

What national standards are in place to define the position Chef? Emphasis on NATIONAL....

Here, in Canada we have the "Red Seal". True, this is a Gov't recognized test, but it is JUST a test, a written one--usually 2-250 multiple choice questions. That's it. 
Problem is, every Province has thier own rules for the "Red Seal" test. Only one Province out of all 10, Alberta, requires an actual live cooking component as part of the "Red Seal". Every man/school/Province for themselves, there is no national standard


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## jbd (Mar 17, 2008)

I agree there isn't a national standard. The closest thing we have is the certification process offered by the ACF. CIA has teamed with ACF in offering what they call Pro Chef certification. They have three levels which appear to correleate to the ACF's certified culinarian, chef de cusine, and certified executive chef.

My take on the ACF's efforts is that they are trying to gain professional recognition of the people in the culinary industry, beyond just the celebrity chef phenomenom. The biggest accomplishment it appears, is getting that bureau of labor recognition in 1976. In the following 30 plus years not much has moved forward. There are probably many reasons for this. Lack of interest form many different segments of society i.e. gov't, foodservice owners and operators, the people who do come from schools feeling too broke to spend more money, people who don't see the schools or formal apprenticeships as necessary, and the public.


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## crazychef (Mar 30, 2008)

chap, you got the issues addressed!! I feel for you......
And??
tell you what, I am opening a new restaurant soon; I train my guys on the job.....the colleges send someone once a week to evaluate them:see, we work in tandem with the syllabus.....and because I am that little crazy, we go off on a tangent. So they learn that little bit more than a regular college kid....and they earn into the bargain. On competency/flexibility/adaptability/experience, they are that much more ahead. And yes, I agree with you, more should be done by employers, colleges, governments to figure out a level playing field for all graduates.
Crazy industry, not much by way of pros-lots of cons.....but by heavens....only you will appreciate the wholesome, life defining moment every single time you know you have hit it right!!! Every single time!!!!!Hang on in there, the cons are nothing compared to your feeling....stay strong...........
have a look @www-crazychefs.wetpaint.com


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## crazychef (Mar 30, 2008)

Blimey...A Chef?
Essentially a cook, who's done his time, is qualified(basic and advanced!!!) a recognised skillsman/craftsman, artist, trainer, motivator, knowlegeable, businessman-the beans do count to stay afloat!!! And it all comes with experience, garnered wherever one sees fit/satisfactory. Being affiliated to some organisation does not a chef make(more a recognition of the wealth of knowledge, skills, and cronyism.Fair point!) My mother is an an amazing cook, but without the qualifications, attributes, the drive to hang on in there when it is all not happening, being in control and leading the brigade.....what the ******! Her repertoire is limited. On the other hand....a chef knows a lot about alot...I mean a lot....Being so armoured, a chef will survive in any environment.......!!!!!! 
And that is why we have de-parties, commis, apprentice, and sous. Chef is Chef, Chief...to be obvious. Fancy badging is just that....setting ourselves above others....hopefully to inspire to greater achievements. Elitist? 
But a chef really has to prove himself........yeah.......do the time........Earn the stripes and make them count.....for the kids, for the future...for the industry.....
Kali you are not bitter...a realist if you ask me....


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

It's OK. Just blanch in hot water a couple times to remove the bitterness.


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## dudethatsmine (Mar 15, 2008)

shoot this thread is still going on anyway i guess ill update myself on the ways i am going about things. I am still thinking about the navy but right now things are starting to come along i got a job at a restaurant again dishwasher/ SALAD MANNN dun dun dun first restaurant i worked in when i was younger was a pizza/ italian restaurant were the amazing skilled italian cooks and chefs spoke spanish yea i didn't know italians spoke mexican /sarcasim off 2nd one i worked in was my friends dads restaurant a greek restaurant that he owned i actually cooked breakfast on the weekends there when i was 17 so u know i have mad breakfast skills dudes but his place burned down i am 19 in case your wondering so two places i could not understand the cooks at i learned some greek and spanish though on my ways i know what your thinking though this dudethatsmine guy should learn how to type english better before he picks up on other languages:suprise:.

But i am starting to lean more to the idea of working more in this kitchen then ill go to school but the school i am looking at is a hour away but i can make that commute no problems and good thing about that is i know a chef down there that can hook me up after my classes are over with a job down there in NJ wile i am learning in school ill just be paying for gas money and subway fairs to cross back and forth from NY to NJ cheaper then living down there so thats my plan right now folks i know i been bouncing around a lot of ideas but i am thinking this is a good way for me right now i think its more in my reach. Oh your wondering how i know the chef its beacuse hes my cousins boyfriend i am in luck lol  takeingggg fulllll advantage of this crap.

oh on a side note i am not liking this dishwashing gig right now they are throwing **** from to far away in the kitchen and splashing water in my face makes me want to shoot them god they do not listen to me they think i am making it up or something like water plus object does not equal splash in face and the busboy gets in my ****ing way god i hate him lol who the **** hires a fatass busboy no offense to fatass busboys sorry lol.


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