# Home Kitchen Renovation



## oldpro (Nov 23, 2009)

I am in the process of doing a kitchen renovation at a second home, and will need a new range. I am limited to using electric -unfortunatelly - and to a 30" slide in model. I have the following questions:

1. Convection oven or not. I have no experience with them.
2. Combination microwave and vent hood. I've heard conflicting opinions.
3. Brand preferences. I would appreciate positive and negative experiences.
4. Any features I can't do without?

I have done the Consumer Reports research, but I tend to look at their results with a jaundiced eye. Thanks in advance for your help.


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## missyjean (Nov 5, 2009)

I have a combo micro/convection. I never really got the hang of using the convection feature. 

Last month I visited my son and daughter in law. They have a high-end oven, similar to Viking, which has a fan. I made a few quick breads while I was there. I never had a quick bread burn until then. Every bread I made came out burnt.

I attributed it to the fan. However, I used butter flavor Crisco shortening for the first time, so it might have been that.

I have an electric stove with a ceramic top. Everything comes out perfectly even though the oven temp is 25 degrees less according to an oven thermomenter


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

The combo vent microwaves have very low CFM. And many just filter the grease and blow the smoke back into the house. If you are going with a real vent, exterior vented, you don't want a combo vent/microwave. Was something I really wanted in my remodel and I have been very happy to have a real vent. Adds a bit to the heating and cooling costs for the house as it can move some air, but worth it. 

I don't think there's a good quality fridge on the market. You're looking at big repair/ replace in about 7 years according to everybody I talk to. Could be a time to consider a long-term warranty. When i was last looking, LG had some that were well designed. 

I'm not a fan of ice/water through the door, but it's been good for the kids.

I recycled my oven but i'd go for convection when I replace it. Probably a rotisserie too.

Get a gas cooktop. You won't look back.


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## oldpro (Nov 23, 2009)

Gas is not an option. The house is on an island and gas is not available. I'm not brave enough for propane. 

I have a new refrigerator with a bottom freezer (love it), so we are fixed there. I detest the door option for ice and water as well. The range in the house is around 30 years old. It is a 27" drop in model. That's why we are having to redo kitchen cabinets to make space for a new range. Plus, I have a wife that has those fixup urges every couple of years.

We don't really need a "Cadillac" to meet our needs. We have a very good gas grill (with a rotisserie), a Weber kettle, a smoker, and 3 propane cookers with multiple pots to boil shrimp and crabs and to fry fish and oysters. We just need a serviceable range and cooktop, and our vent hood is shot. I suspect that we will not do the microwave/vent option after some of the things I'm hearing.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Put a lot of money into the flooring. I don't like tile as its uncomfortable to stand on and maintaining a clean grout line is WORK. Unless you go with a DARK or BLACK grout I'd skip tile. 

I have tile, I don't like it. I've broken some of it with dropped items. Looks great, but I'd rather have a real wood of some sort. More give, can wear well and with the proper coatings cleans easily.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

_I'm not brave enough for propane. _

You've totally lost me here, OldPro. What's bravery got to do with anything.

I've had a propane system for my stove for 22 years, now, with nary a problem. I hate electric ranges, and the first thing we did when moving here was throw out the electric stove and replace it with a gas unit.

_I'd rather have a real wood of some sort. _

You know from other threads that I'm a wood freak, Phil. But you make this sound as if the only choices are ceramic tile or wood. And, of course, there are many others.

I'm looking at cork flooring myself, for our kitchen redo. Supposed to be one of the most comfortable floor surfaces, is easy maintainance, and not as expensive as some of the others.


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## kcz (Dec 14, 2006)

We need a kitchen remodeling forum. I'm in the midst of planning mine now, and in the interim, several of my appliances have headed south, so I've had to research those rather abruptly.

Oldpro,

I'm one of the few here who have been happy with their electric stove. I have a 10-year old ceramic top GE Spectra, and I've been very happy with its performance. Only caveat is that it's important to use heavy pots to help keep the heat at a steady level. If you don't use your stove that much because you cook outdoors, you could look at a 24" stove and just need a couple of filler pieces on the side instead of ripping out base cabinets.

I'm planning to purchase an induction range for my new kitchen.

I would avoid a combination microwave/range hood. These generally just recirculate the air and don't actually vent anything. I've been quite happy with my recently installed Broan E661. It's very effective for a residential hood.

KYH,

I'm actually sticking with vinyl in my new kitchen. Very cleanable and not too hard on the back.

The Garden Web forum has a lot of very knowledgeable people who can offer detailed advice on kitchen remodeling. 
Kitchen Forum - GardenWeb


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## chefray (Sep 29, 2009)

I asked a friend who installs flooring about cork a few months back. He told me that it's great in kitchens but to make sure that the under-house vents are open. I don't know why, but it seems to be important. Still waiting on the wife's verdict on the new floors as we speak.

As for the stove, Stick with a standard vent hood. Also, if you must go electric, go ceramic top. You'll have less hot spots. Also, make sure it's ceramic, not glass. I had a neighbor who had a glass top. He spilled something on it while it was hot and it cracked. Not fun if you've got a large soup pot on.


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## oldpro (Nov 23, 2009)

When I was acting as the general contractor for building one of our facilities, gas was not an option at the time. I tried to get propane, and was given a litany of reasons from the kitchen specialist why I shouldn't do it, most concerning liability issues. I cooked at our deer camp on an old stove fueled by propane for years with no problem (and preferred that to electric), but we did have some issues with it over the years. Propane is not an option on this house because we can't get a truck to service us.

I like the cork flooring idea. My wife has selected tile. I have been outvoted.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

_I like the cork flooring idea. My wife has selected tile._

I take it you've compromised on tile. :look:


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## oldpro (Nov 23, 2009)

I like the way that sounds. It was a compromise. I, however, make all foreign policy decisions in our house.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

I know what you mean, OldPro. We're in the 43rd year of a trial marraige, and are beginning to think it's gonna work out. The secret: When we first got together we decided I would make all the big decisions, she would make the small ones.

The things she decides: what kind of car to buy; what color to paint the house; where to spend vacations. Little stuff like that. 

My decision points: Should we allow Red China in the UN; how much to increase NASA's funding......stuff like that.


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## oldpro (Nov 23, 2009)

This year will be the 46th year of our trial marriage I am pretty well trained myself.
Don't think for a minute that I'm henpecked, though. I just have very limited privileges.


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## fdm (Jan 4, 2010)

YES, a forum for kitchen remodeling would be heaven! We are also considering a kitchen re-do and the more I research, the more I freeze at the thought of a kitchen remodeling project. It seems to me that no matter what type of appliances I go with, I should expect to replace them in 10 years, if I'm lucky! Now this is a major problem if you ask me. Who has this kinda of money to keep buying this stuff? I haven't even thought about countertops, flooring, cabinets, lighting, etc. And supposedly, the appliances I'm looking at are the residential-commercial appliances.. if they're higher end, shouldn't I expect to have them for a good long time? That's why I wanted them in the first place, I wanted them to perform well and have them hold up to cooking everyday. (No restaraunt, just everyday meals). So looks like I'll have to rethink this kitchen project. So, just for someone's else's opinion can anyone tell me anthing about the following appliances that I was considering..
Wolf Gas Range 30" (maybe the dual convection-not sure yet)
Thermador Wall Unit - 27" Micro, Oven, Warming Drawer
Bosch Dishwasher (but not sure which model, heard to stay away from certain ones, anyone know which is the better model?)
Would like a Sub-Zero because of the 2 fan concept but saw a thermador fridge that I liked
Also, would any of you comment on a garbage disposal? Some folks can't imagine not having one. I don't currently, but should I consider it and why?
Thank you all for reading this rant, but am really in a state of confusion and a little disappointed.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

I've got a Bosch. It's been extremely quiet and done a good job going on 11 years. Over those eleven years I've probalby paid the purchase price again in repairs. Nothing that shut down the working of the washer, but the buttons hook directly into the computer and the buttons are crap. I've replaced that twice. Over time, it gets to where you can't select certain wash cycles. 

My racks are starting to rust through now so if I can't find replacement racks, I'll have to buy a new one. I would consider Bosch again. Not a troublefree appliance but it's done the job and in our home, a truly QUIET dishwasher is a necessity.

A garbage disposal is good to have with your dishwasher. Otherwise, I use mine rarely as I compost. On the no side of the equation, disposals add a LOT to your sewage processing requirements in your region. Raw waste compared to pre-digested waste takes a lot more time to break down and clogs up the processing capacity.

If you're on a septic system I'd also only use the disposal lightly. 

In the Seattle area, I'm told they've started a compost program with every home having a "garbage" can for compost that gets collected weekly or so. This can save a lot of life and other hassles in the landfill operation. 

The disposal has a lot of ramifications that are rarely looked at.


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## olivia751 (Sep 23, 2009)

Hello,

Nice opinion you all are sharing here. Its also helpful for me. I also want some tips for same as oldpro said. I think i got my solution.


Regards,
Olivia


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## oldpro (Nov 23, 2009)

We are at the stage of the renovation where it is difficult to tell if you are renovating or there was an explosion. As to the kitchen, we (royal "we") have made the following decisions.

1. GE 30" stand alone electric range, ceramic top, self cleaning oven. Mid price range and one of the better rated ranges by Consumer Reports. I now know more about the difference in stand alone, slide in, and drop in ovens than I ever thought I would. No convection oven. I was surprised with the number of negative comments from people that have convection ovens, including my son, who has done an extensive kitchen renovation. He now only uses his convection feature to preheat the oven.
2. Tile floors with dark grout. 
3. Granite tile counter tops.. A dark tile with dark grout. I was surprised at how cheap granite tile was compared to granite or corian counter tops.

The only decision left to make is whether to do the existing island counter at one level, or keep it at two levels as it is currently. I will let you know when we (again, royal "we") make that decision.

Thank all of you for your input. It was very helpful.


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