# Tattoos in the kitchen



## pinkykaz (Jul 18, 2011)

I work in a corporate restaurant and I am semi heavily tattooed (15 now, 3 visible if you look hard enough), I have large holes in my ears and a mohawk. I am not a first impression kind of person if you go by looks. I am being pushed up the ladder at this place, but my corporate chef and GM hate tattoos and piercings, and they have slowed my progression down, just not stopped it. I don't plan on stopping getting more tattoos, as I am who I am and will not change that to please anyone. I am wondering tho if this will hinder me in my career? As of now it has not as I can hide my tattoos and take out my piercings having them be un-noticed.

What is your opinion about this? From a hiring stand point or an employee stand point? I have not gotten many tattoos in visible places yet because I haven't got far enough in my career yet and I would like it to not hinder me...

Is it because I am in a corporate place, or is it because alot of people are very judging of people with tattoos?

Thanks in advanced for any response you may give.

-Kyle


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

For me, if you want to get a tattoo or piercing, well it's your body and you have to live with it.  As long as it doesn't affect your work (and honestly I can't see how it would) it's fine with me.  When I was AKM, the KM had a visible tatoo on his arm and no one seemed to bother with it.  As for your chef and GM... it could be that your appearance doesn't fit in with their corporate image and maybe that's why you're being held back?

One of the best servers I have ever worked with had sleeves... more often than not customers would ask him where he had his work done and comment on it as the artwork was very well done.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Pinky

" I don't plan on stopping getting more tattoos, as I am who I am and will not change that to please anyone."As of now it has not as I can hide my tattoos and take out my piercings having them be un-noticed.

"As of now it has not as I can hide my tattoos and take out my piercings having them be un-noticed."

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/confused.gif

I think you are experiencing your answer now, no?

BTW, If they call you Pinky, I hope the mohawk is pink.

D.Rodman never changed his ways and I think he paid greatly for it.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

In my opinion, when one makes choices, one must accept the consequences that result from making those choices.

Today, in the USA, tattoos and body piercings are controversial and, for many in our society, not acceptable in a multitude of situations. One of the consequences of choosing to display a tattoo or body piercing may be to restrict opportunities to work in your chosen field. You make the choice, you made the choice, you will have to endure the consequences.

Would I hire you? With my current clientele, no. I cannot risk the potential reduction in income. Remember, I do not pay your salary or wages, I only process the paperwork and write the checks, the customers provide the money to pay you.

Yes, there are probably some chefs or managers that object to body art, but there are far more customers than there are chefs or managers and, whether we like it or not, the customer pays the bills.

BTW, do I have personal objections to tattoos and piercings? You bet! I think they are dumb choices for one looking for a career that involves meeting a variety of people that one depends on to provide money to live on. Do my personal objections affect my hiring practices? I'd like to think not.

Summing up, it is a question of $$$ more than any other issue.


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## pinkykaz (Jul 18, 2011)

I feel I am being affected somewhat now by it yes, but I have only worked in corporate places really. So I was wondering on the private owner aspect of the question really, which a lot of people here seem to be on. I agree with you Pete on the aspect that as a chef you deal with customers, and certain people can not deal with an 'extreme' look. That's where I don't understand it tho, the restaurant I currently work at I don't see customers. I am never in the FOH and in my position do not need to be. That's why I'm confused, its just my GM and corporate chef (corporate chef who I have met one time in 7 months of working for the company) who don't like them and are slowing me down moving me up in management. Luckily I have a great chef and sticks his neck out for me because of my work ethic.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

My take on the situation? You will struggle for the rest of your life to move into management because of your tattoos and piercings. Even management of BOH.

Is that right, fair, or just? Probably not. Is it a fact? Probably yes.

Justified or not, there is a common perception that tattoos and piercings are evidence of rebellion, individuality, and non conformity  that is anathema to conventional management philosophy. Will that change? Only time will tell.

The only way to overcome that perception is by performance, however, to get the opportunity to perform requires overcoming the perception. Unfortunately, you appear to be caught in a "Catch 22" situation.


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## sandbar cook (Aug 28, 2011)

I have worked for quite a few chefs,and not one of them has had a problem with tattoos. I have 3 that are visible on my forearms and if I am going to be seen by the public I just roll my sleeves down.But on the other hand I don't think that neck tattoos would be recieved well in a super fine dining setting.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Kyle,

  If I had a position for a specific skilled position and you were up against a clean cut look. Same qualifications. I'd hire the model.

I'm not going to BS you. But if you turn off any % of customers it's a liability.

   Doesn't mean my best employee has sleeves.

It has nothing to do with a way of life. You must look at it as just a dress code.

good luck dude

pan,

Hey, I luv you man, but it's the real world!


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## sandbar cook (Aug 28, 2011)

I don't agree with all the fuss about tattoos...they have no bearing on whether an individual can cook or not...keep them covered or not,so many people have tattoos now that I'm sure most customers woulddn't notice them anyway


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Sandbar cook said:


> I don't agree with all the fuss about tattoos...they have no bearing on whether an individual can cook or not...keep them covered or not,so many people have tattoos now that I'm sure most customers woulddn't notice them anyway


Of course tattoos do not necessarily affect cooking skills, or management in fact. The question is irrelevant!

The real question is more along the lines of something like: do visible tattoos adversely affect the gross income or increase expenses, thus reducing the potential or actual bottom line?

If the people paying for the product have no problem with visible tattoos, there is no problem.

If a significant portion of the people paying for the product have a problem to the extent they will not patronize the establishment, then there is a real problem.

In my area, the latter is the case. Whether I accept tattoos or not is not the problem, it is how they affect my gross income, which directly affects my ability to pay for the tattoo wearer.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

I new a cook who walked around with a Boa Constricter around his neck (not at work) He did this to command attention and to show his individuality . My feeling with piercings and tatoos run along those lines.

However if you are confined to the kitchen, they dont fall off into the food and thats ok. Some of the patrons however may not like them, but as long as you don't directly deal with them nothing wrong with them. Some of my best cooks had both.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Personally, I won't hire anyone with visible tattoos.  What's under regular work clothing is not my business, so I don't really care.

It's been my observation that tattoos have only function:

To attract attention.

Why someoe wants to atract attention to thier neck,,fore-arms, etc. is a red flag for me.


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## sandbar cook (Aug 28, 2011)

I am going to put this out there so we all don't start going overboard here..I have my tattoos placed so they ARE NOT visible under my chef coat,and I think that it would be a reasonable solution for any one who want's to work in fine dining...don't stop getting tattoos,just keep them covered when in public view.

BTW I have been following this forum for awhile before I decided to join and I would like to give a shout out to all my brothers and sisters in the food service industry....keep on rockin' it you guys, Chefs/Cooks rule!!!


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

Tattoos are much more acceptable today than they were 25-30 years, but there is still a stigma attached to them.  It is less so in the restaurant world than in the "business" world.  That being said it will be much more difficult for you to move up into management with visible tattoos and piercings.  It isn't the case with all places, both corporate and independent, but you will still come across people, in positions of power, that do have preconcieved ideas about tattoos. And yes, it might close some doors to you.  Not saying that it is right or not, but just stating the reality.  Luckily, in this business it doesn't shut nearly as many doors as in other professions.  Let's face it, there are a number of high profile chefs sporting full sleeves.  When is the last time you saw a high priced lawyer or CEO sporting sleeves?  This industry is much more open, in general, but of course that doesn't mean everyone is.

I've got plenty of tattoos, but I'm glad I didn't get any that are visble when wearing short sleeve shirts.  I was in the restaurant world for many, many years and could have gotten away with visible tattoos.  But I burnt out after so long and now I am a foodservice director for a jail.  Not a glamorous job, but at I make a great salary, work managable hours (45 as opposed to the 70-80 in restaurants), get to see my daughter most nights and weekends and have a much lower stress level.  I would have never gotten that job if I had had visible tattoos.  Even if my company let me slip by, I'm sure the jail administrator would have given the thumbs down.  The point is, if you cover yourself in tattoos you might end up limiting your options down the road.  Sure you may have all intents of staying in the restaurant world for the rest of your life (I sure did) but what if you burn out?  I doubt most culinary schools are hiring chefs covered in body art to teach their classes.

As said before, above.  It's your decision about how to express yourself, unfortunately there can be consequences to some forms of self expression.  You have to be prepared to deal with those consequences and figure out how to deal with them or get around them.


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## sandbar cook (Aug 28, 2011)

And that's the thing...people's notions,and you are right about some high profile chefs,look at Grahame Elliot,who has 3 michelin stars has lots of visible tats...and I am positive that his customers could care less.But you and I agree on one thing that covering yourself with tattoos could possibly slam shut some doors,so if an aspiring chef is planning on getting full sleeves they will have to face the facts that it will take away some options for them.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

For all you owners that have claimed you would not hire a chef w/ visible tattoos, I'm curious about your operations. Are your kitchen areas wide open to your customers? Do customers regularly come and go through your kitchens? Are you making so much over-the-top money from having a _"chef's table"_ in the kitchen? Do you continuously parade your chef around the dining room showing off to your customers the chef that prepares their meals? If not, I'm calling _"BS"_ on ideas like these:

~ _"Would I hire you? With my current clientele, no. I cannot risk the potential reduction in income."_

~ _"Do my personal objections affect my hiring practices? I'd like to think not."_

~ _"The real question is more along the lines of something like: do visible tattoos adversely affect the gross income or increase expenses, thus reducing the potential or actual bottom line?"_

Now I'm sorry, _*PeteMc*_, if I only picked out things that you said. I just don't get your worry. Are your chefs all that continuously visible to your clientele? If so then OK, I could be a lot more understanding. For all the time I've spent in the food industry, I can count on one hand the number of places I've worked where the head cooking chef had and interaction with those eating what was cooked.

~ _"D.Rodman never changed his ways and I think he paid greatly for it."_

LOL. Dennis Rodman is a rich retired jock that was just inducted into the NBA HOF. What exactly is he _"greatly paying for"_?

Kevin Gillespie, Michael and/or Bryan Voltaglio, Michael Symon,


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## pinkykaz (Jul 18, 2011)

My visible tattoos are in my palm and on the inside of my fingers. My boss and my co workers did not notice for at least a week, and I still have people i work with say "oh I never knew you had that tattoo". I plan on getting full sleeves eventually, but I want a lot of hidden work done before I get to that point (at least 5 years worth of work at the rate I am going). I am just trying to get a feel of what others in the industry see, as I have only seen a small portion.

Thanks everyone for your opinions. I really appreciate the honesty as opposed to certain people telling me 'it doesn't really make a difference', which I know is a lie.

-Kyle


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## left4bread (May 8, 2009)

Really, I think this question can be narrowed down to "Where do you live?"

Seattle,WA? Our servers will point and laugh at your measly tattoos. That 2 gauge piercing is "cute", lol. wussy!

Hannah, MT? You're a fool who isn't fit to wash our dishes!

As it becomes more popular and less of a "OMG you must be from prison!" thing, it won't matter too much in ...mmmm... 20 years.

It's like how people were so against hula-hoops in the 50's, but then all the kids started doing hula-hoops and now they're EVERYWHERE!

So, anyhow... do it. Or invest your spare income into something profitable. Now is a good time.

Or just blow it on asinine crap to impress your friends. You're rich, right?!

_EDIT: for the record, my tattoo stops at the wrist so I can hide it under a shirt for the interview._


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Hula hoops, Slinky, Mr. Potato Heads were all big in the 50s thats true  , but you did not wear them and besides now they ae all gone and died out and forgotten. The fad ended.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

I think many of you are missing the point. The issue really has nothing to do with tats and piercings, per se. It has to do with peoples biases.

One could argue all day and night about the "art" value of tats, and the right to self-expression, and all those high-faluting concepts. And one could honestly say that it doesn't matter if you're not meeting the public. And so forth.

But the basic fact is, tatoos and body piercings, particularly when they are widespread, appeal to people's biases. Very often they do not realize, themselves, that they are reacting, on a viceral level, to this sort of body art. Indeed, on a conscious level, they might be overlooking it because the only thing that counts is ability. But subconsciously they're saying, "that's disgusting."

So, arguing pros and cons is actually an exercize in futility. Why? Because we're talking about a reaction that is based on emotion, not on objective facts. Nor does pointing to a handful of top names in the industry who have tats change anything. For each of them who overcame the biases there are a hundred, a thousand, who will never progress further than line-cook. Should we advise people based on the exeptions? Or on the thousands to whom body art is a hinderance?

It's no accident that most respondents to this and similar threads first argue in favor of body art, and then point out that theirs is coverable. Even these body art proponents are aware of the real-world reaction to it.

The long and the short of it is simply that visible body art, in terms of career development, is not acceptible if you want to get ahead. That's one of the consequences of your choice.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

If a mid fifties guy with a crew cut and wearing a law enforcement uniform walks up to you, before he says or does anything what is your reaction? Good, bad, or indifferent; the fact is that people form opinions based on their perceived visual input.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

~ _"D.Rodman never changed his ways and I think he paid greatly for it."_

LOL. Dennis Rodman is a rich retired jock that was just inducted into the NBA HOF. What exactly is he _"greatly paying for"_?

*Ice,*we can argue offline. Very close to some of his possee. This may have been the most natural talented athelete of the century.

I say we start a thread to post some chef tatts! A lot of people went to culinary school on the gov't plan. Almost everyone I know was inked.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Well, Iceman, ask and you shall recieve,

I'm a 16 seat Mom & Pop. Don't have employees, except maybe at Christmas.  When I do need to hire, I never advertise, usually get about a resume a week through the door, and I have a good look at the person then.  Like I said, what's under the work clothes isn't my business, what's visible reflects my business.  For e-mailed resumes I always have book-face.  Amazing what kind of photos people put on their walls...  Meh, 5 years ago I could get just as much infomation from thier answering machines...

See, here in B.C.,  employees are more of a liabilty than an asset.  Hate to say it, but it's true.  The various gov't agencies (labor board and Worker's comp) are so skewed towards the employees that it makes California look good.  Since most employees never stay past 6 mths in the hospitality biz, the odds of them filing a claim are pretty high, with most claims under $500.  All three parties are fully aware that most of the claims are bogus (or in legal-ese, fraudulent) but the gov't agencies are so constructed that it is far easier to process the employer as "guilty", and for most employers it is easier just  to pay than fight.  I never did.  Fought each case and "won" each one.  Of course, I was never entitled to any compensation for my time or money, heck, I'm not even allowed to get an acknowledgement that the claim was false to begin with. Can't you just feel the love?

Couple months ago, a woman was murdered at her workplace outside of Vancouver, estranged husband walked in and killed her.  Co-worker was hospitalized trying to stop him.  After the husband was arrested and charged, Worker's comp investigated (it happened at the workplace, after all...)  Conclusion?  Employer "must have known" that the woman was having difficulties at home and the employer should have intervened.  They'll be making up new laws for this now. As always, and true to form, "the onus is on the employer".   Das Bose ist immer und ueberall. (The evil is always and everywhere) 

Geez,  I guess when an estranged/deranged husband shows up at my door with a shotgun and accuses of messing with none of my business and  kills me, Worker's comp won't have to investigate because it didn't happen at the workplace. Eh?


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Take a look at this thread Tattoos basis for discrimination claim?


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

_*LOL.*_ Look, I'm all for _"The boss is the boss. I'm the boss, I make the rules."_. However you want it is the way it should be. I just can't take coming up with reasons and answers to try and justify things so that you don't have to say what is the reality of life. Like it or not, we all have biases and/or prejudices. Let me tell you, I sure as sure do. Just face up and admit it. I won't hire 20-something white guy cooks that come from upper-middle class families/neighborhoods because they have garbage work ethics. I owned and ran a 100-top family restaurant with myself and four(4) Mexicans in the kitchen. Two(2) who could cook like my style and two(2) who could prep the way I wanted. Including me, whoever wasn't doing something washed dishes. They came in on time, didn't leave early and they didn't steal. Everyone was on salary. Taxes were paid as well as healthcare. I also set up a savings plan for everyone in the restaurant. The FOH was run by a mature aged woman named Blanche. I had a business manager/lawyer on retention who worked for me one(1) day a week. It was freaking beautiful. I had more cops eating in my place than every doughnut shop in the city. Customers did not come into the kitchen. My kitchen staff didn't leave the kitchen into the dining area. We all could have been wearing tuxedos or buck naked. Either way, nobody covering the checks would know who was making the dishes we served. NO big-named restaurant I've ever eaten in or worked in was any different. I've met the big-named people, but the guys really working never came out. Anyway, my point is simple. Hire whoever you want, don't hire whoever you don't want. Don't blow any smoke up my skirt telling me there is any other reason than _"It's what I want to do."_.

As for you _*Panini*_, don't give me any _"offline"_ noise unless you're ready to come through with it. I'm pretty sure from the very beginning of me being here that I've always had an open offer that anyone near Chicagoland could give me a shout and we could get together. That offer is still open, to you and everyone else. By-the-way ... you never did ever send me any pics of those cars.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

IceMan,

Calling me out in bold print. Listen kiddo, learn how to use the PM system and you will find my note. I, my friend, do not have to prove myself

to anyone here, especially you. I now understand where I'm getting the doubting messages from. I acquired everything I needed in life before you were

born.

Your right, I come on here to blow smoke up everyone ass to make myself feel good. I live by myself, sit on my computer, and eat fast food. I dream of the day I could be like you.

My apartment is so small. I should have never lied about the vehicle I had built for me. I took the pic from the internet. I should never print things like

I'm sending Tin some stuff. I'm sorry. You're right, I should wallow in my misery because nobody can make money in this industry. Oh boo hoo, we work so hard.

If I wish hard enough, I will be able to own a food business and hire all the wayward tattooed bi-polar people in the world.

Damn! I spilled some special sauce on my keyboard.

Ya know, when it's all said and done I really do have fun playing me. Thanks

really not panini, I deliver mail

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

OMG. What are you talking about?!?       Send me some of whatever you got over there.


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## el fuego (Aug 29, 2011)

It depends who you want to be accepted by.  If you are looking for acceptance by someone everyone, that's not going to happen for another 20 + years.  Those folks better get used to seeing tattoos and piercings, the Millennium generation will soon be running most major corporations and will soon be presidents and dignitaries. ....and most of that generation is tattooed.  It will just take some time. 

I just returned from the National Food Service security Council (NFSSC) meeting in Palm Springs.  The Key Note speaker's title subject was "Tattoos and Piercings" ...get used to them.  When I started in food service, and was first in management, I was told not to hire you, you were bad... they didn't know the hidden tats I had.  Now I have tats on my fingers for all to see... oh well.  We should all be judged by our actions, not how we look.. PERIOD.  Those that judge me otherwise, I don't care to win their favor.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Um, just for the record: tattoos (and piercings) result from "actions", actions undertaken by making a choice, just because you make a choice does not force me to tolerate nor accept the choices you make, nor should you have to tolerate nor accept the choices I make, assuming, of course, such choices are legal.

So, it comes down to the Golden Rule, doesn't it?

S/he who has the Gold, RULES!

And in the hospitality game, the customer holds the gold, so guess who rules???


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

OK. You're either taking this way too seriously, or you're wisecracking back at me. I bold print other poster's names most all the time. Hire whoever you want. You're the boss, you don't have to answer to anyone. Was that part of my post not so understandable? We're all who we are. This is all conversation, nothing else. LOL. Please, someone tell me about my tone now. I still want to get together, and I want some car pics.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

IceMan said:


> ...and I want some car pics.


Hey, *IceMan*, I'd send you some car pics/img/vbsmilies/smilies/laser.gifbut I don't have any /img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif


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## sandbar cook (Aug 28, 2011)

This thread is starting to get old here people,turn on the T.V.  Police officers have tattoos,firefighters have tattoos, proffessional athletes have tattoos soldiers have tattoos...need I go on,point is everyone has them,I bet half the customers in your dining room have tattoos(non-visible)  It is the way things are now.everyone needs to get over themselves and move on


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## sandbar cook (Aug 28, 2011)

This thread is starting to get old here people,turn on the T.V.  Police officers have tattoos,firefighters have tattoos, proffessional athletes have tattoos soldiers have tattoos...need I go on,point is everyone has them,I bet half the customers in your dining room have tattoos(non-visible)  It is the way things are now.everyone needs to get over themselves and move on


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Where is Chicago? It is still cold there?

It works both ways with being the boss. My niece just moved on to something big and better. She was the most talented decorator

we've had. She had a full exposed sleeve. She was always out with customers. I have some pretty snooty people in our neighborhood where the store is

The Bush, Mary Kay , Perot Family etc.

Like you say, my place.My rules.

Mine show on occassion.

I'll resend PM. have to find the flash drives.

can't wait to break in the new 2ss.

It's out shopping, new cold air intake, new pipes,bumper jammer, chip and cam.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Sandbar cook said:


> This thread is starting to get old here people,turn on the T.V. Police officers have tattoos,firefighters have tattoos, proffessional athletes have tattoos soldiers have tattoos...need I go on,point is everyone has them,I bet half the customers in your dining room have tattoos(non-visible) It is the way things are now.everyone needs to get over themselves and move on


 Reminds me of the lyrics of an old Supertramp song:

"and you watch Television because they tell you should, and you drink coca-cola because they say it tastes good."

No, not everyone has them.

Me? I had a "paradigim shift" when I had to take care of an elderly relative when I was about 16. A 60yr old tattoo on an 80 yr old body didn't make much of an impression on me.

Hey, it's summer time. Shorts and T-shirt weather. Take a look at the ink on some of those bodies. It doesn't make much of an impression on me.


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## jedimind (Jul 9, 2011)

pinky when you're worked through your time at this place, find another chef who has or appreciates the body mods. i work out here in cali and i think 3 outta 5 of my sous or exec chefs have had tattoos, and even the ones that don't haven't once bothered me about mine. i seriously doubt anybody ive worked with looked at them twice. also no corporate kitchens for me thanks..did it once, never again.

to some of the people in this thread: can you keep it on topic and not bicker at each other like schoolgirls? this forum's for pros, there's a culinary student section on here somewhere.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

I had a line cook who put one of those washable tatoos on a chicken.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

chefedb said:


> I had a line cook who put one of those washable tatoos on a chicken.


That's funny! Does he/she still work for you?


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

I still think we need a thread with chef tatts pics.

I tried to post one but failed.

Almost broke my neck.!!!!

Bending over, lifting one leg, using two mirrors, twisting, tugging on my shorts and a mobile phone.

Rug slipped out and I body slammed myself onto the bathroom floor./img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif


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## sandbar cook (Aug 28, 2011)

Panini: I'm not sure if would like to see that photo or not...sounds like a personal area...I'm still laughing at the mental image of you managing to bodyslam yourself though..funny stuff/img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

chefedb said:


> I had a line cook who put one of those washable tatoos on a chicken.


Too much......./img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif


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## el fuego (Aug 29, 2011)

Actions to my body are my business... and that's my opinion


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## kieron19 (Aug 6, 2011)

If it was a front of house position and the tattoos cant be well hidden you wouldn't get hired.

Mowah No hired

Piercings im not looking for a Sieve.

In the kitchen as long as its not in contradiction with health and hygiene rules then i would hire you. If you were in a Forward facing position such as a chef who goes to conference or do meetings then i probably wouldnt let you be in that postion.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

> Actions to my body are my business


Couldn't agree more.

By the same token, choosing who to hire is the business of the chef.

Some people will prejudge other people based on visual perceptions. May not seem fair but then...

Life isn't fair. Life isn't unfair. Life just is.

You make your choices. I make mine. Fairly simple.

For what it worth, I have no tattoos but have hired plenty of people that have them. For me it is not a criteria by which I judge potential employees. I am not everyone though.

I have to admit that I have never heard of anyone not being hired because they were tattoo free. Can't say the same thing about tattooed candidates.


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

We talk about tattoos at work all the time. Imagine if you will, a retirement home where the residents show off their tattoos to each other. Their skin is wrinkled and saggy, the colors of their tats are long past faded, but there they are showing them off to each other. Things that make you go "hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm."


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

The only people who care about people having tattoos now days are old people. 

Tattoos are so common now that in 20 years or so it won't matter. 

I think that the type of establishment you work in says a lot...a button down, corporate hotel type of establishment will probably not like an excess of visible tattoos, but the young, talented hip chef downtown who run a buzzy, trendy kitchen probably wouldn't care. In fact, he/she probably has some too. 

Lots of the current generation up and coming chefs have tattoos, and a lot of the cooks do to. I don't think it will matter much unless you work for an old chef or a hardcore corporate restaurant.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

The previous poster has given me some great ideas for new questions that I will include in future interviews of employment candidates. I am always on the outlook for creative and opened minded people, especially for kitchen positions. I consider myself to be a very out of the box thinker and I appreciate like minded staff.

While the previous poster did spark the intellectual process, they probably wouldn't be hired though because I sense closed minded preconceived ideas, which are not valued qualities in my kitchen.

Oh yeah, by the way, I am probably what would be considered an old person and or chef.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Someday said:


> The only people who care about people having tattoos now days are old people.
> 
> Tattoos are so common now that in 20 years or so it won't matter.
> 
> ...


My one and only qeustion for people with visible tatttos is:

Why do you wish to draw attention to your face/neck/fingers/ etc etc.?


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Oop, got cut off.

But Someday, I really see a lot into your statement about old people people.

Who needs them anyway?  It's not like their opinions matter

They're finished, washed up, a zero to society, right?

I may be 47 but I'm not old, never will be.

Who needs Old people?  Who needs their prudently invested money?  Who needs their wisdom? Who needs thier expertise in their various fields?

Sure glad you'll never get old,  Someday


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Someday,

not picking on you kiddo.

like an excess of visible tattoos, but the young, talented hip chef downtown who run a buzzy, trendy kitchen probably wouldn't care. In fact, he/she probably has some too.   

I also think there is a misconception that inked people are talented and creative.

Hey tatts are as old as time.There are 10000s of reasons for them. I jest alot about them.

I have to tell you that my first experience with a tattoo left an indelible picture in my mind. Chefed will probably remember.

As a kid, I used to sneak over to the corner candy store in Brooklyn to help Bernie sweep up and recieve a few snacks maybe a couple of tokens.

I asked him all the time about his tattoo. He always brushed me off.

One day he took me in the back where they practically lived. His wife did sewing. A TV, little range, etc.

I'll never forget it. It started to rain. He explained to me what the numbers and letters on his arm meant. And that he stood up to people, and how that was so important, which meant he went to a different camp. I sat there just listening while I heard his wife weeping in the other room. Not another word was ever said about it, didn't need to.

Pan


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

This reveals far more than your attitude concerning tattoos.

Best of luck in your future endeavors.



Someday said:


> The only people who care about people having tattoos now days are old people.
> 
> Tattoos are so common now that in 20 years or so it won't matter.
> 
> ...


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

This is funny, because I owned one of those hip trendy places 15 years ago and I didnt hire or allow anyone in my OPEN kitchen to have visible tatts or peircings other than in their ears. PERIOD!!! YOU are an impression on MY customers and they see you as an ambassador to MY establishment. If I hired you and you went out and got one where it couldnt be covered than sorry but you had to go. I was a smallish place that couldnt afford to have a side show of a line cook infront of people, no matter how educated, talented or nice they were empressions are lasting and they are forever. 1 unhappy guest tells 10 people...... you know the story.

And for the record I was in my late 20's when I owned my place and had it for 4 years until I closed up shop and moved to the Islands...



Someday said:


> The only people who care about people having tattoos now days are old people.
> 
> Tattoos are so common now that in 20 years or so it won't matter.
> 
> ...


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

cheflayne said:


> The previous poster has given me some great ideas for new questions that I will include in future interviews of employment candidates. I am always on the outlook for creative and opened minded people, especially for kitchen positions. I consider myself to be a very out of the box thinker and I appreciate like minded staff.
> 
> While the previous poster did spark the intellectual process, they probably wouldn't be hired though because I sense closed minded preconceived ideas, which are not valued qualities in my kitchen.
> 
> Oh yeah, by the way, I am probably what would be considered an old person and or chef.


So, I am closed minded and have preconceived ideas, but people who wouldn't hire someone with tattoos are not? Weird logic....

I probably shouldn't have made such a blanket statement that seemed to ruffle feathers. I probably should have said that chefs "of a certain age" are "more likely" to care about tattoos than a younger generation chef. Tattoos are extremely common nowadays, and no longer represent someone who is a criminal or otherwise dysfunctional as a human. That is a holdover attitude of an older generation that will, likely, largely die out in the next couple of decades, if not sooner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *foodpump*

Oop, got cut off.

But Someday, I really see a lot into your statement about old people people.

Who needs them anyway? It's not like their opinions matter

They're finished, washed up, a zero to society, right?

I may be 47 but I'm not old, never will be.

Who needs Old people? Who needs their prudently invested money? Who needs their wisdom? Who needs thier expertise in their various fields?

Sure glad you'll never get old, Someday

"Old" in and of itself wasn't meant as an insult, it's a statement of my opinion. My inkling is that people from an older generation than my own are more likely to think less of a person who has an excess of tattoos. If you guys object to me using the word "old" then I apologize. Again, it wasn't meant as an insult, just a statement of fact. You seem to think somehow that, by sole virtue of me using the word "old," that I somehow am disrespectful or otherwise hateful towards people older than me.

Those are some pretty big assumptions and accusations based on me using the word old, don't ya think?

I would wager that if you polled a group of 50+ year olds, and polled a group of people aged under 25, and asked them if visible tattoos were "a bid deal" or otherwise grounds, in and of themselves, to not hire someone for a job, I would wager you'd get two vastly different results. It probably wouldn't be 100% either way, but I'd wager the vast majority of younger people would think it was no big deal, while the older people would think it was.

It's the same phenomenon with a lot of different things--rock and roll music was once looked on as some sort of "devil's" music. Nowadays, its tame compared to things like hop hop and gangsta rap. Television, movies, etc, all have discrepancies about what the older generation thinks is acceptable.

In 20 years (maybe less, mabye more) I'm guessing that tattoos will be like Elvis...my grandmother might not like them, but they are considered common and no longer a big deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *panini*

Someday,

not picking on you kiddo.

like an excess of visible tattoos, but the young, talented hip chef downtown who run a buzzy, trendy kitchen probably wouldn't care. In fact, he/she probably has some too.

I also think there is a misconception that inked people are talented and creative.

Hey tatts are as old as time.There are 10000s of reasons for them. I jest alot about them.

I have to tell you that my first experience with a tattoo left an indelible picture in my mind. Chefed will probably remember.

As a kid, I used to sneak over to the corner candy store in Brooklyn to help Bernie sweep up and recieve a few snacks maybe a couple of tokens.

I asked him all the time about his tattoo. He always brushed me off.

One day he took me in the back where they practically lived. His wife did sewing. A TV, little range, etc.

I'll never forget it. It started to rain. He explained to me what the numbers and letters on his arm meant. And that he stood up to people, and how that was so important, which meant he went to a different camp. I sat there just listening while I heard his wife weeping in the other room. Not another word was ever said about it, didn't need to.

Pan

I don't think that someone who has tattoos is more creative than someone without them. I don't know where you got that info. In fact, I would say the VAST majority of tattoos are stupid and probably will someday be regretted by the wearer. That is not the issue. The issue is exclusion based solely on tattoos, which I think is an old-fashioned viewpoint likely to go away in the next 20 or so years. But the simple truth is, there are a lot of young chefs out there with tattoos. That was my only point.

That is a nice story about the holocaust survivor, but I don't see how it's relevant to this discussion. Tattoos like that are probably off limits for this discussion by simple fact that the wearer obviously had no choice in the matter. And I would hope, no matter what preconceptions or generational biases might exist, that Bernie was never turned down for a job based on that tattoo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *PeteMcCracken*

This reveals far more than your attitude concerning tattoos.

Best of luck in your future endeavors.

Because I used the word "old?"

Your negative reaction to that word also reveals a lot about you and your sensitivity levels. No where in my post did I use old as a disparaging word, it was meant only to highlight the age gap between people who are likely to care about this sort of thing and those who don't. Old is not a bad word, though it seems a lot of you are choosing to take it that way.


chefhow said:


> This is funny, because I owned one of those hip trendy places 15 years ago and I didnt hire or allow anyone in my OPEN kitchen to have visible tatts or peircings other than in their ears. PERIOD!!! YOU are an impression on MY customers and they see you as an ambassador to MY establishment. If I hired you and you went out and got one where it couldnt be covered than sorry but you had to go. I was a smallish place that couldnt afford to have a side show of a line cook infront of people, no matter how educated, talented or nice they were empressions are lasting and they are forever. 1 unhappy guest tells 10 people...... you know the story.
> 
> And for the record I was in my late 20's when I owned my place and had it for 4 years until I closed up shop and moved to the Islands...


You kind of prove my point. Given your timeline, I would suppose that you are pushing 50. I would argue that you are in the lower percentile of the age range of people who find tattoos dis-tasteful. As would my parents. As would, I'm guessing and giving my opinion here, most people over the age of 50. The fact that you owned your restaurant 15+ years ago doesn't mean much, as a lot has changed since then, tattoos have become much more common in the last 15-20 years, and your attitudes on the subject are unlikely to change and are probably the same as they were 15 years ago.

Your post would be different if you were under the age of, say, 30 now, owned a trendy spot downtown, and absolutely loathed tattoos in your kitchen. But hey, all I'll say is that I'm around 30, have worked in kitchens for about 9 years, though I dabbled a bit when I was in high school in the late 90's. And tattoos are quite common amongst kitchen staff, really aren't a big deal, and probably won't be in the future.

Again, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if chefs don't want to hire people because of tattoos, that is their business of course.

By the way, if you guys want to see some hideous tattoos and wonder what the hell people are doing to their bodies, check this site out. http://ugliesttattoos.failblog.org/ I wouldn't hire a lot of these people because they are stupid, not because they have tattoos. Well, I guess stupid tattoos. But not all tattoos are stupid.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

> So, I am closed minded and have preconceived ideas, but people who wouldn't hire someone with tattoos are not? Weird logic....


I don't believe that I stated my opinion about people that wouldn't hire someone with tattoos, but maybe I am mistaken.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Someday said:


> ...Again, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if chefs don't want to hire people because of tattoos, that is their business of course...


It is not necessarily the chef's opinion about tattoos, it is more the chef's perception of the customers' opinion of tattoos, after all, the customers provide the money to pay you.

Where I'm located, the average person associates tattoos with gang affiliation, and the great majority of potential customers will go out of their way to avoid any contact with, what they believe to be, gang members. Especially in light of the fact that most violent confrontations occur between rival gangs or those that gang members think are rivals. Sadly, it matters not WHAT the tattoo is but that the tattoo exists. Especially in light of the fact that many gang members memorialize their most violent confrontations as tattoos.

It may be your perception that tattoos are becoming more acceptable in the circles you travel in, that is not necessarily the case in other areas.

You are welcome to your views, be careful when projecting your views onto others, whatever their age, gender, ethnicity, or other characteristics. They are also entitled to their views, whatever they may be.

As yet, those with tattoos and/or body art of whatever form are not a "protected class" and thus do not have any special rights to impose their views on anyone else.

Bottom line? Do not be surprised if someone does not share your views, it was your choice, any consequences that result are yours as well.

Be wary of looking for work in the San Joaquin Valley if you have chosen to decorate your body in a manner that others may see it.

For my business, if you come looking for work with visible tattoos or piercing, I'll be gracious, but I will not be able to hire you, open kitchen or not, because my customer base will not tolerate it.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

PeteMcCracken said:


> It is not necessarily the chef's opinion about tattoos, it is more the chef's perception of the customers' opinion of tattoos, after all, the customers provide the money to pay you.
> 
> Where I'm located, the average person associates tattoos with gang affiliation, and the great majority of potential customers will go out of their way to avoid any contact with, what they believe to be, gang members. Especially in light of the fact that most violent confrontations occur between rival gangs or those that gang members think are rivals. Sadly, it matters not WHAT the tattoo is but that the tattoo exists. Especially in light of the fact that many gang members memorialize their most violent confrontations as tattoos.
> 
> ...


I understand and respect your view. However, the point I was trying to make is that the view of a tattoo as being "gang affiliated" is an outdated perception based on long held beliefs. I would say that the vast majority of tattoos now days are just trendy fashion. When every other frat boy and sorority girl have tattoos, they lose their status as gang exclusive.

Just for the record, I have 0 tattoos. I just think it's a bit silly to exclude someone from working in a kitchen based solely on a visible tattoo. Like I said, it's up to the discretion of the person doing the hiring, I just personally don't get it.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Come and visit, we don't have any "frat boys and sorority girls" here /img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif, we have Nortenos, Surenos, Peckerheads, and a variety of others. Oh yes, there are a few that probably are not gang connected as well. I'll see if I can get a list from the Chief to share with you.

My point? What we have here is very likely different than what you have there and visa versa. Generalizations don't always square with facts.

Now, go about 180 miles south, Los Angeles, and you just might find a different situation.



Someday said:


> I understand and respect your view. However, the point I was trying to make is that the view of a tattoo as being "gang affiliated" is an outdated perception based on long held beliefs. I would say that the vast majority of tattoos now days are just trendy fashion. When every other frat boy and sorority girl have tattoos, they lose their status as gang exclusive.
> 
> Just for the record, I have 0 tattoos. I just think it's a bit silly to exclude someone from working in a kitchen based solely on a visible tattoo. Like I said, it's up to the discretion of the person doing the hiring, I just personally don't get it.


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## left4bread (May 8, 2009)

I agree with the post in question, mostly.

The responses...  very tender egos.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Someday,

I was kinda hoping I would not make it onto your post. I didn't direct anything your way.

I like my Bernie story. and it's true. I also felt it was relevant to the original discussion.

I thought we were talking about discriminating against tattoos for employment or such. 

 I was trying to say there are whole cultures of people who discriminate

against tattoos. The Bible tells us not to tatt. So I can surely see how a lot of people would

not get on board approving them. Maybe my story was inappropriate. I'm probably developing

dementia. I like you even more now. pan


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Someday, I enjoyed your post. No, really, it was intelligent and well written. And I respect you for acknowledging that many tats look just plain butt-ugly. Of course, why so many people _*can't *_acknowledge this and treat their bodies like the broad side of a building or a bus--ie. graffitii, or in this case body graffitti, is beyond me.

But Vancouver is a lovely place. We have no gangs, no public shootings or fighting, no murders on our streets. We have no "motorcycle enthusiest clubs" or affiliated minion gangs. There is no such thing as B.C. pot, and therefore no turf war in growing it or selling it, or any other drugs for that matter. The cops have not asked for a law making it illegal to "show gang colours" or to display gang tatttoos to intimidate.

The general public does not know how to differentiate betrween a gang tat and regular body grafffiti.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Foodpump.

You keep asking where you want people to direct their attention. Well 40 yrs ago I sat for

spider-web in NYC. Two Tasmanian devils shoveling coal! My ink is old and new. The newer

stuff references my profession and my health experiences. Someday is right, we all know that.

I'm not sure it has ever influenced me as an owner. I think the only one without ink in our bakery

is my lovely wife. Although she and I have radiation tatts.


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

foodpump...

the only thing that looks good on an 80 year old might be a 60 year old!!!....sorry, just had to.....so if tattoos are offensive for whatever your reasons, where do you draw the line? what about nose jewelry or brow rings or tongue rings? what about hair color?...eggplant, fuschia, orange?.....not saying good, bad or indifferent, just wondering if there is a line there.

joey


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *durangojo*
> 
> ...what about nose jewelry or brow rings or tongue rings?


Our health inspector requires them to be removed during work, or completely covered from potential food or hand contact. It is a food safety issue.


> what about hair color?...eggplant, fuschia, orange?.....


Well, if it matches the restaurant decor and color palate, what's the problem?/img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

I think I'm gonna throw the _"BS flag"_ on this one. For anyone to make employees remove nose jewelry, brow rings or tongue rings would be the same as removing braces from their teeth and/or eye-glasses from their faces. That, as far as I've ever seen, doesn't happen. Not in America anyway.



PeteMcCracken said:


> Our health inspector requires them to be removed during work, or completely covered from potential food or hand contact. It is a food safety issue.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Maybe not in Chicagoland, but definitely in Tulare County, California. Goes right along with the prohibition against most jewelry, remove it or cover/secure it so there is no possibility of cross contamination or harboring of bacteria.

Not sure if I agree with the braces analogy but many places around here specify safety goggles (especially for those with glasses) as well as facial hair nets. Pretty soon, we'll all cook in haz-mat suits/img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif



IceMan said:


> I think I'm gonna throw the _"BS flag"_ on this one. For anyone to make employees remove nose jewelry, brow rings or tongue rings would be the same as removing braces from their teeth and/or eye-glasses from their faces. That, as far as I've ever seen, doesn't happen. Not in America anyway.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

You're only allowed 2 BS flags a season. One wasted!

No dangles, spikes, rods, nails, painted and jeweled nails. Hoops. We even have a silly beard net here. Not sure about grilles.

I do recall a broiler cook in the 70s who had earings. They must have been cheap or something. They basically quarterized his ears. While he was on the line.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

Sorry. Texas doesn't count. That's where Perry is from and he wants to secede from the Union. Using Texas as any kinda reference for anything other than cows just doesn't work. Texas is it's own reservation. Somewhere East of Saturn, from what I'm told.


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## squirrelrj (Feb 18, 2011)

> Originally Posted by *foodpump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif.
> But Vancouver is a lovely place. We have no gangs, no public shootings or fighting, no murders on our streets. We have no "motorcycle enthusiest clubs" or affiliated minion gangs. There is no such thing as B.C. pot, and therefore no turf war in growing it or selling it, or any other drugs for that matter. The cops have not asked for a law making it illegal to "show gang colours" or to display gang tatttoos to intimidate.
> 
> The general public does not know how to differentiate betrween a gang tat and regular body grafffiti.


You're right, nobody in Vancouver was fighting, and/or trying to burn the city down, because a sports team lost a championship, recently.

If the public doesn't see you in the kitchen, and it doesn't affect your work one bit, I see no problem with tattoo's, visible or not.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Hey!!!  I was saving the Stanley cup riot for the next post.  It never happened.  Most of those shite disturbers in the  London riot  were charged within a week, it ain't happening here though, and some of those dip-wads filmed themselves burning cop cars and posted it on you-tube..

This year alone we had about 5 gang related deaths and about a dozen gang related shootings.  Doesn't sound like a lot, but it's a small city.  And you think B.C. pot doesn't exist?


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## bleach8484 (Sep 6, 2011)

Im a 27 year old chef, I have tattoos and I'm all for it. But I intend on this to be my career for a very long time, so when I show up at work its always very clean shaven and clean hair cut. My boss could care less about the tattoos as long as I don't look like I just woke up from a 4 day bender and stubbled into work. We are very fine dining white table cloth and have customers visiting the kitchen nightly. Im sure they understand that we are the most conservative bunch of guys, but it speaks volumes to be well presented when they come back.

I would almost guarantee that the tattoos are the least of your problems. Loose the mohawk, facial pearcings and plugs and watch their perspective change about you. Im all for individuality, but when it starts affecting you via no promotions, missed career opportunities etc it might be time to think if its really worth it. SLC punk was a cool movie 10 years ago 

good luck


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

> You kind of prove my point. Given your timeline, I would suppose that you are pushing 50. I would argue that you are in the lower percentile of the age range of people who find tattoos dis-tasteful. As would my parents. As would, I'm guessing and giving my opinion here, most people over the age of 50. The fact that you owned your restaurant 15+ years ago doesn't mean much, as a lot has changed since then, tattoos have become much more common in the last 15-20 years, and your attitudes on the subject are unlikely to change and are probably the same as they were 15 years ago.
> 
> Your post would be different if you were under the age of, say, 30 now, owned a trendy spot downtown, and absolutely loathed tattoos in your kitchen. But hey, all I'll say is that I'm around 30, have worked in kitchens for about 9 years, though I dabbled a bit when I was in high school in the late 90's. And tattoos are quite common amongst kitchen staff, really aren't a big deal, and probably won't be in the future.
> 
> ...


Actually you are off by an entire decade. I just turned 40 this year and owned my first place at the ripe old age of 25.

Here is the thing, these 30 year old guys arent hiring a lot of ppl and the trendy hip places dont have a lot of staff most of the time; they are smallish boutique places with smaller kitchen staffs. Most of the hiring is done by us "old guys", you know the 40+ crowd.


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## jedimind (Jul 9, 2011)

i dont want to get too off topic i haven't even seen the original poster for a while, but i wanna run this by everybody; who wears wedding rings at work? who takes them off for the shift and if you do where/how do you keep them secure?

i'm gonna be poppin the question soon!


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## pinkykaz (Jul 18, 2011)

Wedding rings arent allowed in kitchens in my state (illinois) for sanitation reasons, but wedding bands are. I wouldn't suggest wearing one tho as I have seen more then one person lose rings while working.

I stopped posting in this thread because I have read what I needed to and now I'm just lurking on it.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

I haven't worn my wedding ring at work in a couple of years.  The breakfast place I was at had a strict no jewellery policy and the commissary does as well, so it's in my jewellery box at home.


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## thetincook (Jun 14, 2002)

jedimind said:


> i dont want to get too off topic i haven't even seen the original poster for a while, but i wanna run this by everybody; who wears wedding rings at work? who takes them off for the shift and if you do where/how do you keep them secure?
> 
> i'm gonna be poppin the question soon!


Put it on a necklace chain and wear it under your shirt.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Mine is in my wallet.

When you're young, the bi-polar partying type foodies are proud of the circle in their wallets.

When you're older the circle gets smaller. But you're still proud of it./img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

panini said:


> Mine is in my wallet.
> 
> When you're young, the bi-polar partying type foodies are proud of the circle in their wallets.
> 
> When you're older the circle gets smaller. But you're still proud of it./img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif


OK I must be older because it took me a couple of minutes to get that one!

I don't even think mine fits anymore... I was tiny young thing when we got married and since working in the kitchen I have developed some muscles in my fingers, and I'm sure the 15 or so pounds I have gained in the last 24 years have something to do with that too!

The commissary is a HACCP (hope I got that right) facility so their health and safety standards are extremely high. Even jewellery under our jackets are not permitted.


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

I didnt wear one for years.  I lost my original one about 6 weeks after I got married, replaced it and never put it on.


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

i don't wear mine  at work simply because it's a diamond band and is hell to clean....flour dredging, beef blood from cutting steaks, chicken slime...besides i don't consider wearing it as all that important anyway...i know i'm married...what the hell difference does a ring make really...

joey


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Yo people!

Thread title says TATTOOS, almost destroyed my laptop screen when someone "lost one, replaced it and never put it on", now I've got a mess of coffee to clean up!

Maybe include OT to warn us slow ones???


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

LOL @ Pete!!!!

I think the varied views on this thread prove the point that tattoos are still not completely acceptable to all parts of society.  You can argue the shoulds, coulds and woulds, but obviously there are still people out there with pre conceived ideas about people with tattoos.  These are the facts.  You can like these facts or not.  You can argue that it shouldn't be this way, but the fact remains that many people still view visible tattoos in a negative way.  I'm not saying this is right or wrong, merely pointing out the fact, as evidenced by the responses.  Does this mean that some doors will be closed by hving visible tattoos, yes, but there will always be plenty of opportunities although you might find that you limit yourself from certain aspects of the foodservice world.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

If it makes you old ones feel any better I was just mocked on facebook for saying "hairdo" and yes I am in for a new one tomorrow!

And yes this thread does definitely show that we have varying opinions when it comes to tattoos etc....


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## marzi (Sep 10, 2007)

Do you think that you are now a unique and special person because of your appearance with entitlements and the rest that goes with the shine-the-light-on-me-crowd? If so, don't worry be happy.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

I think some people do feel that way, marzi but really for me it's a sign of the times.  I have come across more than my fair share of people who have some sense of entitlement for some reason or another and for me all I can do is shake my head and think Why?  Yes I like to wear jewellery and I like to dress nicely... does that make me better than anyone else...nope it does not.  Does the fact that I design my own jewellery and make my own clothes make me better than someone who buys things ready made... nope again.

Once I am in the kitchen I am only as good as the food I produce and I expect to be treated the same as everyone else, whether they be pierced, tatooed or otherwise.  How we express ourselves outisde of work has no bearing on what we do in the kitchen or workplace... well it shouldn't anyway.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

Panini my son has radiation tats as well... he always wears a shirt when he is swimming now because of them and the nasty marks he has on his back from steriods when he was sick...


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## pinkykaz (Jul 18, 2011)

Pete said:


> LOL @ Pete!!!!
> 
> I think the varied views on this thread prove the point that tattoos are still not completely acceptable to all parts of society. You can argue the shoulds, coulds and woulds, but obviously there are still people out there with pre conceived ideas about people with tattoos. These are the facts. You can like these facts or not. You can argue that it shouldn't be this way, but the fact remains that many people still view visible tattoos in a negative way. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, merely pointing out the fact, as evidenced by the responses. Does this mean that some doors will be closed by hving visible tattoos, yes, but there will always be plenty of opportunities although you might find that you limit yourself from certain aspects of the foodservice world.


That is what I have gathered from this thread, and the answer that I was looking for (not what I wanted to hear obviously, but rather the truth). I have my tattoos for myself. That's why they are hidden to most and shown when I would like people to see them. I'm not going to lie I like when people notice my tattoos and compliment the art work I have, but that is not why I got them. One day they might be accepted, but they will never be 100% accepted, no matter what generation. I know people my age that hate tattoos and don't approve of them. They don't know I have any and I just keep a distance from them.

And Pete that made me laugh just a little .


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

Pinkykaz, I feel the same as you.  I have a number of tattoos, all hidden unless I wish to show them off.  While I would love to get a couple of pieces that would be visible I have refrained because I never know where life is going to take me and I don't want to close any doors.  In fact, my latest kick is I want to tattoo a wristwatch around my left wrist with the time my daughter was born on it, but I imagine I will never do it, especially while working in a jail environment as visible tattoos are very much frowned upon for those working at jails.


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## haole (Jul 9, 2011)

I have multiple visable tattoos (throat, back of my head, knuckles, sleeves, back of my hands, palm of one hand) and I've never had any problems moving up into managment. However, I've never applied for a job such as a hotel banquet chef, as I already know I won't be hired in 99% of hotels. If you do run into trouble, you can join the church of body modification, which is a legal church. If you get discrimated against, you can sue. It's not an ideal route to take, but it's there if someone takes a less then ideal route against you.

Also, move to Hawai'i. I've seen police and judges with hand and face tattoos. Granted, they were Hawaiian and they were tribal designs, but tattoos are generally more accepted out here because of the culture.


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## haole (Jul 9, 2011)

Chefross said:


> We talk about tattoos at work all the time. Imagine if you will, a retirement home where the residents show off their tattoos to each other. Their skin is wrinkled and saggy, the colors of their tats are long past faded, but there they are showing them off to each other. Things that make you go "hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm."


Theres an 84 year old man who I see once a week. He has a piece done by Sailor Jerry (the orignator of the modern tattoo). Sadly, he has alzheiemers and forgets he tells me ever week the story of it. He got it when he was a kid in the Navy. Considering the tattoo is almost 70 years old, It still looks beautiful. And it's a wonderful story told by a man who's still proud of it.

That's what a lot of peoples tattoos are. Memories and stories of times past, so you never forget them.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

I think you better research about suing on the grounds of not getting a job becasue of tatttoos, O.K.?

O.T.O.H. it is illegal to not hire because of race, religion, or sexual orientation. These are things that you are born with.  Tats, on the other hand require a conscious decision on your part to do that to your body.  You and you alone are soley responsible for that decsion.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

C'mon guys.

Tattoos are as old as dirt. It's a matter of exposure and laws. When we were getting inked NY as most states did not allow someone get ink below the wrist

or above the neck. I know in HS most all of us boys had ink. There was just as much ink in Viet Nam. I come from a very large family, most of whom are NYC firefighters and

Port Athority. Ink was always around. It meant something if it associated you with a group or belief. I've seen more D-cards on guys then I see ink on guys now. Not as elaborate, but the same meaning. I think people get ink now a days for a different reason, sometimes art. But it's all the same. I appreciate tatts a little more for beliefs then art.

pan


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

You're missing the point, Pan.

The big issue here is visible tats: face, neck, hands.

My opinion is, and always will be, what's under your work clothes is none of my business.

Haole wants me to understand that if I don't respect his opinion, it's his right to sue .  I want Haole to understand my opinion, but try to convince him with logic, explantions, and conversation--I won't threaten him with a big stick.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Haole thinks a tattoo is a *right*, when it actually is an individual choice, just as *my choice* to not hire someone who has made a choice that will adversely affect my business.

And Haole, there might be a trifle of trouble proving that your religion is a "protected class", others have tried and failed.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

No, no, I wasn't referencing that. You know I'm on your side as owners. We own our businesses to make decisions on how to run it.

NO one tells me who to hire!!!!!!! You bring on the best lawyer and I'll find one better. Hey, I've had my share of suits in the past.

Those who want to twist the laws to benefit themselves will never get ahead.

  Like I said before, my niece was always out front with customers and she had a full sleeve. She is part of our work group and I will protect her as anyone else working there. If it offends my customers, then oh well.

    I sent someone walking today. They had given me a 1500 cash deposit for a wedding in October. Today was the 9th time they came in and told us our competitors will do this cake for less. I went across the street to the bank to get cash to give back to them. I told them that I really think they should use one of the competitors she mentioned. We left them at the counter. The first time in 15 yrs. this has happened. I told all the associates to go back to the kitchen. They left after 10 minutes. I feel like shit for the bride. But you can only take so much. I know in my heart I will do her cake if she calls me. The mother was just too much.


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## pinkykaz (Jul 18, 2011)

Suing is something I would never consider if they discriminate me because of my tattoos. I choose to get them, and I will take the consequences as such. I feel it is sad some people are close minded, but if it hurts your business then why would you want to hire that person? Lost of revenue is not something I want to happen to any business for them hiring someone with visible tattoos. Not worth it, end of question.

On a side note, this thread has had much more responses then I ever expected. I should have known tho, for the fact that people are strongly opinionated on this subject.

Thank you again for everyone that has contributed to this thread, it has shown me a lot.

-Kyle


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

For what it is worth, judging by your attitude demonstrated on this thread, I would hire you without hesitation. I see a mature attitude, open mindedness, and an ability to see things from others' viewpoints. To me these are all qualities that I value and admire. Any body art that you have may shut some doors, but others will open.


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## pinkykaz (Jul 18, 2011)

Thank you Cheflayne, that is what I try to be and hope to ac hive. I feel I show what I am worth in my work, not in what I look like. I am very lucky to be in the position I am in, even tho it is not a restaurant I can show off my culinary skills in, the management experience I have gotten is amazing to say the least.

-Kyle


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

OMG already. Let me know when you all are gonna have your big "group hug" so that I can bail out before I gotta puke.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Sorry that honesty bothers you.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

Go pick up the change that's been dropped on the floor of your car _......... and buy yourself a sense of humor. _


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

No floor on my motorcycle so I guess that I will have to continue humorless for awhile.


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## knife4hire (Jan 7, 2011)

If you can cook, you can F)(****ckin cook! it doesn't matter what you look like. Corporate places are just that way I guess.Win them over with your charm!


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

I don't want your charm. I want your passion.

Kyle. if you brought something posative to our business  you would be hired. I certainly have to think in a profitability way.

As long as you could be OUR kyle it wouldn't matter.


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## kieron19 (Aug 6, 2011)

there is more dirt on wedding rings and wedding bands then on a raw meat chopping board.


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## shinoj (Aug 1, 2017)

I hav a tattoo on my forearm.is this cause any problem in my chef career?


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

shinoj said:


> I hav a tattoo on my forearm.is this cause any problem in my chef career?


I doubt it very much.


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

shinoj said:


> I hav a tattoo on my forearm.is this cause any problem in my chef career?


You might find a few doors closed to you-some corporate gigs, some institutional work, and possibly some higher hotel positions, but overall it shouldn't be much of a problem in today's industry.


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## CrimsonKing (Jul 31, 2017)

This thread amazes me.
I've never worked in a kitchen where there were no tattoos, and I've worked in fine dining and cafes, caterings and the like.(And I'm not talking about 20 years ago, I've worked in the last 7 years, and still do)It was never an issue, in fact, often chefs check out each other's tattoos, Head chef and sous-chefs as well, no one cares.

If any profession is indifferent to tattoos it's this one.

I'm sorry to say this, it might shock most of you in this thread who are against tattoos, but the majority of chefs are not the creme of the crop, they usually come from the lower ranks of society and a large part of them end up being chefs because they had no other options.
Chefs are very savory people, not neat businessmen, slick entrepreneurs or doctors. They are a rough, gritty crowd.
And they will have tattoos.
That's just how it goes. Get over it.


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## icanburnanythin (Jun 24, 2017)

business have a right to project whatever image they want.. my place refuses to hire ppl with tattoos for the foh.. boh is fine though.. cause we dont see the public.. head chef does.. but i wouldnt know if he has any or not.. his sleeves are always down..


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

CrimsonKing said:


> I'm sorry to say this, it might shock most of you in this thread who are against tattoos, but the majority of chefs are not the creme of the crop, they usually come from the lower ranks of society and a large part of them end up being chefs because they had no other options.
> Chefs are very savory people, not neat businessmen, slick entrepreneurs or doctors. They are a rough, gritty crowd.
> And they will have tattoos.
> That's just how it goes. Get over it.


Are you sure you want you stereo type ALL the cooks and Chefs? Not the tattoo crap, because Ive seen doctors, neat businessmen, and slick entrepeneurs with ink. Matter of fact the Gm of my hotel is inked, his sleeve covers it up, his secretary has dome kind of a birthdate or wedding date inked on her shoulder, and the 50 's something accounts payable has something inked on her boob.

But here is something for you to think about: Met a woman the other day with lots of ink, nothing registered untill she told me she was a grade 3 teacher. I asked her why she didn't opt for ink under normal work attire. She is--well my gr. 3 teacher was, and many other teachers were role models. I mean she has great influence over a lot of kids.

Thoughts?


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

kieron19 said:


> there is more dirt on wedding rings and wedding bands then on a raw meat chopping board.


Can someone explain this to me?

mimi

Nevermind...it came just as I hit the post key.
m.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

CrimsonKing said:


> I'm sorry to say this, it might shock most of you in this thread who are against tattoos, but the majority of chefs are not the creme of the crop, they usually come from the lower ranks of society and a large part of them end up being chefs because they had no other options.
> Chefs are very savory people, not neat businessmen, slick entrepreneurs or doctors. They are a rough, gritty crowd.
> And they will have tattoos.
> That's just how it goes. Get over it.


One thing to remember is that this thread is 6 years old or so. You might end up responding to someone who is long gone.

It also sounds like you've read too much Kitchen Confidential. I would be cautious about painting the entire industry with such a broad brush. I've never encountered a "majority" anything in this industry. It is so varied and widespread that it defies any pigeon holing we want to assign it.



foodpump said:


> But here is something for you to think about: Met a woman the other day with lots of ink, nothing registered untill she told me she was a grade 3 teacher. I asked her why she didn't opt for ink under normal work attire. She is--well my gr. 3 teacher was, and many other teachers were role models. I mean she has great influence over a lot of kids.
> 
> Thoughts?


I don't see a problem? Sounds like you are assuming that someone with tattoos can't or shouldn't be a role model or have influence over kids? Doesn't make sense. As you so helpfully pointed out in your post the people who have tattoos run the gamut in all walks of life. Does having a tattoo preclude someone from being influential or a role model?

Tattoos are so commonplace now as to be near a non issue.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Here's my line of thinking...

We send our kids to school to prepare them for thier future, right? 
As many others have noted, visible tats dont fly for a significant portion of prospective jobs. 
So what is a gr. 3 teacher saying with visible tats? "Don't do as I do, but do as I say?" That never worked for me

Like I said, what is under your work clothes is none of my business, so why the visible tats on a gr. 3 teacher?


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

foodpump said:


> So what is a gr. 3 teacher saying with visible tats?


Her message will be will be defined and translated first, by "what" I teach my kids.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

foodpump said:


> Here's my line of thinking...
> 
> We send our kids to school to prepare them for thier future, right?
> As many others have noted, visible tats dont fly for a significant portion of prospective jobs.
> ...


Again, you seem to be equating someone that has a visible tattoo as someone who shouldn't or can't be a role model...which is not true. So, whilst I think you've made your opinion on tattoos abundantly clear in this thread, it is becoming less and less of an issue for society at large. As evidenced by the fact that a third grade teacher has visible tattoos. It just ain't that big of a deal anymore.

And again, your value judgment of "don't do as I do, but do as I say" is moot because getting a tattoo is an adult decision that is made when someone becomes old enough...there aren't too many third graders with tattoos. I highly doubt that the teacher is encouraging young kids to get a tattoo, unless your argument is going to be that only by virtue of their existence on her body she is encouraging. Which is silly. And again, tattoos no longer have the social stigma they once had (back in the day a long, long, long, long time ago)...they are more of a fashion choice than anything (albeit a permanent one).

What confounds me is that beyond your simple and apparent distaste for tattoos, you seem to think that the world at large agrees with your perspective, when I find it to be less and less the case. I've seen people in every walk of life, every profession, every income level with visible or non-visible tattoos. Honestly, NBD.


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## shinoj (Aug 1, 2017)

Bit i didnt get the proper reply
..is that visible tattooo for a chef.or is that cause any problem


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

I don't see why your tattoo would cause problems. It's kitchen related anyway.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Either way, it is a fairly moot point, because that ink ain't going anywhere.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

someday said:


> your value judgment of "don't do as I do, but do as I say" is moot because getting a tattoo is an adult decision that is made when someone becomes old enough...there aren't too many third graders with .


Mmm.... shoulda been at my kid's grad this May. About a quarter of the kids had ink, some home made, some professionaly done. A couple of the
girls had their b/f's names inked on, I hadda ask one girl with a name displayed on her, uh... chest how long she'd been going with "Kyle", 6 mths and counting. Yep, adult decision awright. That ink ain't going anywhere.

Moot point or not, a tat has only one purpose, and that is to attract attention. If it didn't, you wouldn't see them. Why people want to attract attention has occupied my attention ever since I can remember.


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

I have no problem with tattoos. I have a number of them-all non-visible. While I agree that tattoos have become much, much more acceptable, not every profession has a neutral stance on visible tattoos. There are still many professions, and companies, that require any visible tattoo to be covered-easy if it's an arm or leg sleeve, not so much with hand, neck and head tattoos. This is one reason I have made the choice to keep all my work non-visible. I never know when I might switch positions or go into an aspect of foodservice where visible tattoos might keep me from getting a job. Chances are, if you have visible ink you may never know that that is the reason you didn't get the job. In some cases, the company will just disqualify you, without giving you a reason, and it may be if you are up against someone with equal experience they might choose the non-inked person over the inked one. There is no way of telling, and seeing that tattoos are not a "protected" status, a company has every right to disqualify you because of visible ink.


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## shinoj (Aug 1, 2017)

pete said:


> I have no problem with tattoos. I have a number of them-all non-visible. While I agree that tattoos have become much, much more acceptable, not every profession has a neutral stance on visible tattoos. There are still many professions, and companies, that require any visible tattoo to be covered-easy if it's an arm or leg sleeve, not so much with hand, neck and head tattoos. This is one reason I have made the choice to keep all my work non-visible. I never know when I might switch positions or go into an aspect of foodservice where visible tattoos might keep me from getting a job. Chances are, if you have visible ink you may never know that that is the reason you didn't get the job. In some cases, the company will just disqualify you, without giving you a reason, and it may be if you are up against someone with equal experience they might choose the non-inked person over the inked one. There is no way of telling, and seeing that tattoos are not a "protected" status, a company has every right to disqualify you because of visible ink.


Is that my tattoo is visible?


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Let me come at this from the other side..
I have been out of medicine for a while now so things may have changed but ink and piercings put patients in a higher risk category for *blood born diseases* and unless there was a recent Hepatitis and HIV panel on their chart we would be extra careful with the gloves and needles.
There is nothing that will make you loose sleep quite like a stick or unseen hole in a glove (especially when sporting recent scratches from the garden) that has come from an unknown (meaning no prenatal care) ED "drop in".
You can send a gallon of blood to the lab but those tests take a while to come back and during this time you are on an infection protocol that doesn't end until YOU are tested at 6 months.

But aside of all that even mimi's have tattoos and some are even thinking where to put the next one lol ;-)

mimi


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

foodpump said:


> Mmm.... shoulda been at my kid's grad this May. About a quarter of the kids had ink, some home made, some professionaly done. A couple of the
> girls had their b/f's names inked on, I hadda ask one girl with a name displayed on her, uh... chest how long she'd been going with "Kyle", 6 mths and counting.  Yep, adult decision awright. That ink ain't going anywhere.


Adult decisions aren't the same as good decisions. Adults make poor decisions all the time. Sometimes a poor decision is subjective. That girl will most likely regret her "Kyle" tattoo. But so what? It's her mistake to own for her life, not yours. Hopefully it will inform her future decisions and she will learn from it. If not, again, what is it to you?

Again, just because you have a negative perception of tattoos doesn't mean everyone else feels that way. My observational experience tells me that tattoos, even visible tattoos, are becoming less and less of an issue in society, including "professional" environments.

Are there still places that frown on tattoos? Sure, of course. But I would argue, again based mostly on my observations, that the trend is that tattoo and body art has become so mainstream that it is becoming a non issue.



foodpump said:


> Moot point or not, a tat has only one purpose, and that is to attract attention. If it didn't, you wouldn't see them. Why people want to attract attention has occupied my attention ever since I can remember.


I disagree. A tat has more than 1 purpose. I agree that a tattoos MAIN purpose for MOST people is to attract attention, but I've personally known people who got very personal and private type tattoos for things like memorials, memories, life changing events, etc. Deaths of loved ones, cancer free dates, sober since 20XX, etc. Some people tattoo over scars or deformities...some people use personal symbols for reminders, mantras, and all that. These types of tattoos, again in my anecdotal experience, are usually in places where the general populace won't be able to readily see them. They are for the wearer, not anyone else.

I personally think that if you are so hell bent on pre-judging someone based solely on a tattoo, that says more about what type of person you are than anything else.



pete said:


> While I agree that tattoos have become much, much more acceptable, not every profession has a neutral stance on visible tattoos. There are still many professions, and companies, that require any visible tattoo to be covered-easy if it's an arm or leg sleeve, not so much with hand, neck and head tattoos.


Again I would argue that the trend of people/professions caring about tattoos is trending downward. Like, my grandpa thinks that anyone with a tattoo is a "thug" or something, but my peers and younger probably don't think that.



pete said:


> This is one reason I have made the choice to keep all my work non-visible. I never know when I might switch positions or go into an aspect of foodservice where visible tattoos might keep me from getting a job. Chances are, if you have visible ink you may never know that that is the reason you didn't get the job. In some cases, the company will just disqualify you, without giving you a reason, and it may be if you are up against someone with equal experience they might choose the non-inked person over the inked one. There is no way of telling, and seeing that tattoos are not a "protected" status, a company has every right to disqualify you because of visible ink.


Like I said above, if someone or some company disqualifies you based solely on a tattoo I think that says more about the person/company than it does about the tattoo. I'm sure that MOST people who get visible tattoos are aware that it might disqualify them for some work, and are prepared to accept the outcomes of that.

I don't have any tattoos personally, but I think it's dumb that, for example, a person with a tattoo couldn't work in a retirement home because he/she might scare an old lady in the lunch line. To each their own. And to be clear, I'm not denying a company's rights not to hire someone who goes against their "image" or whatever, but I reserve my right to think it is stupid.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Whoa there Someday, pre judging? Who or what have I judged in my posts? I observe, yes, but pre judge? Examples from my posts please?



With that out of the way, I am proud to say that I do judge people, and judging by your posts, Someday I assume you are in similiar position as I am. Let me elaborate...

I' m going through a stack of resumes, one guy has a lot of experience, at second glance I see he has no dates listed, just descriptions. Judging from his highschool grad date, the guy can't be more than 20-21, yet he has worked in 9 different places. I judge this guy isn't worth the time to call in for a 10 min. interview.

I'm doing the weekly schedule, and aware that "x" has called in sick, late or no-show every Thursday for the past 4 weeks. Yesterday x tells me all the other times were just coincidences, nothing to worry about. I judge to cover my butt, and schedule a trusted employee to cover x's shift so if x does a no show or late, I can finally fire them on the spot.

I'm waiting at light and see the driver infront of me has his head staring at his crotch, and his hands there too. I judge the guy is texting, and take the appropriate defensive measures.

My neighbor is getting his roof redone. His contractor is at my door, telling me that my ceramic tiled roof needs replacing, and he can guarantee his asphalt tiles for 10 years. I judge the contractor to be a p.o.s., smile, nod, and tell him I'll get his number from the neighbor if I'm ever "in the market" for a new roof.

My toothbrush is worn and frayed. I judge its time to get a new one...

So yeah , I judge, and feel if I didn't, I'd be out if a job, in the hospital, or both.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

foodpump said:


> Not the tattoo crap
> __________________
> 
> Met a woman the other day with lots of ink...she was a grade 3 teacher. I asked her why she didn't opt for ink under normal work attire. She is--well my gr. 3 teacher was, and many other teachers were role models. I mean she has great influence over a lot of kids.
> ...


How about those? Calling tattoos "crap" and the assumption that a woman with tattoos couldn't possible be a role model for young people based solely on her tattoos. Sounds like the very definition of pre-judging.

Anyways, I've said all I can say in this thread, both 7 years ago and now. I don't really have anything new to contribute to the thread and I'm not interested in going around and around with you over semantics or whatever excuse you are going to use to play off your words. I think we all know how you feel, I think we all know how I feel. Agree to disagree...sound good?


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## cronker (Mar 3, 2016)

Where I live, there is an underculture of "rock n roll" chefs that is hot right now.  Sleeves, piercings and dreadlocks - very basically, if you look like you live under a bridge and can cook, you're cool. Please make sure you are hungover or strung out to get the tan pants and man bun crew drooling for your food.
This is just another trend that will not last.

I have worked for many years in the big corporate hotel chains, at a medium-high level. Being immaculately groomed is just part of the world. One day, early in my career, another employee noticed that I have a tat on my back. She could see it through my crisp, white shirt. It's a very small tat.
She was shocked, because she couldn't understand how a manager, such as me, would have a tat.
"But you're a MANAGER!" She gasped.
"Yes, and I'm also a person, dear"

Would I hire someone with a lot of work like you? Depends on the venue. For a five star hotel - maybe, maybe not. Big hotels have big staff numbers, and there are people who you would need to work with who might be uncomfortable with your look. 

I used to work with a big bear of a guy- huge! He had prison tats, piercings, wild hair - the whole thing. He was gay (likewise) and was the most gentle, nicest person and a great cook. I get it that looks can be deceiving, but first impressions count. Right?


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## linecookliz (Jun 8, 2017)

I have had 1 big (some would say medium sized) tat on my inner forearm since about 19. This has never hindered my job prospects, but I do always wear long sleeved shirts to my interviews. Corporate jobs seem more picky about their employees, but family owned business don't mind as much. I'm not sure why they would care since you're b.o.h anyways. It could also be the area you reside in.


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## Chrisopotamus (Jul 12, 2017)

foodpump said:


> Personally, I won't hire anyone with visible tattoos. What's under regular work clothing is not my business, so I don't really care.
> 
> It's been my observation that tattoos have only function:
> 
> ...


I've made the same observation.


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## DanielK. (May 22, 2018)

Sorry, had to make a new account for this to reply since I've been watching this thread since it pretty much started. However, I went to College at NIC for Culinary Arts and had learned that yes, tattoos are bias and somewhat frowned upon. However, I would like to point out as I have visited, eaten, and studied at several restaurants that it's becoming more rare to not see a tattoo. When I was studying under my College Professor, I learned from her that yes doors are shut left and right, but for many they are willing to open if you show more ethic than "popularity" when you're working. Many solutions have come to not working FOH but that's not guaranteed depending on where you do work. When I sign up applications and mention that I am soon to be getting a full sleeve tattoo, maybe 1/3 frown to it and tell me that it might not work out. As for the others, they kinda just thank me for forewarning them and sometimes ask why which leads to me telling them the story of my self harm as a child due to repeated neglect and abuse for sever years in fostercare from the age of 2 and my only method of coping at the time was self harm so I'd rather have people see a tattoo than scars up my left wrist(Which does come back to the Choices Of Life, but I was no older than 11, so I never thought 5 years into life, let alone 9 now). If anything my only hindrance to getting most jobs is just my GPA because in Highschool I WAS a slackoff, but as I got older and started realizing I need to step up my work ethic and overall value to work is much higher. Yes, that doesn't prove directly in an interview but I had a few instances where I worked part time just to see how my work ethic was, and despite them knowing I am willing to do anything needed especially since my prep, washing, and cooking skills are fairly good I am only shut down due to someone else with more experience than me who they feel a slightly better connection since they usually have worked in a restaurant in the past. I plan on moving to another state soon because I know 1 place that has been talking to me for a while and I am in high hopes that this is 100% official since they sound like they want me in despite knowing my tattoo plans and GPA. Back to the main argument though for PeteMc. And FoodP. Yes, I understand and highly respect your opinion on them, and I see they are really valid points as I am now trying to apply but I think as time does go by, you might want to look at it as "Improved workers". Yes they might not meet your Ideals, or even come close to meeting any regulations in your eyes but that doesn't mean as time goes by you can't see that sometimes more people now adays like tattoos. Along with the common trends of half shaved heads, gages, and the uprsing in dyed eyes(Not a fan, but I myself wouldn't shut someone down for their ideals) tattoos is becoming a high demand and sometimes good reasons. My self harm coverage, some people have it to even cover accidents when they were younger. I wont tell you how to live your lives, but I think it'd be fuel for thought.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Still don't understand the reason why.

I know quite a few women-mothers, actually, who went through hell and back during childbirth, some even stillbirths, but there was no need or even thoughts about tattoos to show they lived through that experience.

I've known a lot of people who were orphaned, gone through village massacres, raped, etc. and who had no need or thoughts about getting a tat to prove they lived through the experience.


The thing with a visible tat is that it is there for one, and only one reason--to attract attention. If it's not visible, it doesn't attract attention.


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## DanielK. (May 22, 2018)

Well for me, it's not as much for the attention, or to show I lived through it or any of that. It's just to cover scars across my arm. I once had an application where my sleeve started folding itself when I was about 17 and they shut me down because they didn't want that kind of appeal to be noticed. As time went by I started looking into the whole tattoo aspect and yes, it's hated. Yes, people will ultimately judge you for it, but from the applications and events I have gone through, I have had more chefs encouraging to get a tattoo over the scar than to leave the scars for the sake of children and others who could potentially see it. They understand I went to college for the reason of becoming a Chef, and don't want me to ultimately spend the thousands I spent to just get where I am and but shut down instantly. Yes, as a child I made horrible decisions to my body, yes I had done horrible things, and maybe had a horrible life, but my question for you is, would you rather see a huge amount of scars, or a nicely done art?(For the concern, it will just be a feathered wing in black/grey ink, no color, none of that pop out "look at me I am a pretty flower" bull, just something well put enough to cover them and hopefully meet more standards than an "emo" little child who needed therapy if that makes sense)


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Scars, any day.


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## DanielK. (May 22, 2018)

Peculiar, but I guess you'd need to see it in person before hand. i mean, you are you so let your individuality stand. I pretty much set my thoughts, I will probably check up monthly seeing the thread dies down every so often.


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## the apostate (Jan 11, 2011)

foodpump said:


> Still don't understand the reason why.
> 
> I know quite a few women-mothers, actually, who went through hell and back during childbirth, some even stillbirths, but there was no need or even thoughts about tattoos to show they lived through that experience.
> 
> ...


Agreed, or as P. J. O'Rourke observed while researching one of his books, "_The weirder you're going to behave, the more normal you should look. It works in reverse, too. When I see a kid with green hair and three or four rings in his nose, I know there is absolutely nothing extraordinary about that person."_


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Ah, yes... P.j. O'Rourke and behavior....


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

_Live and let live._


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

Tattoos are the free speech of the young these days. I disagree with foodpumps statement that tats are for the purpose showing off and getting attention. Tattoos are a very personal thing and only mean anything to the person wearing them, not to anyone else, so it should not matter. But it does. 

If I own a business and I hire people to represent that business, but the status quo says I must act a certain way, and that my staff should too, so as to stay in business.

If you judge a person by a tattoo, do you also judge them by their piercings, or clothes, or behavior? Of course. Tats are going to be around for a while.


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

DanielK.
Paragraphs would make your writing much easier to read.
Otherwise, in your particular case I vote for no tattoos. Unless you don't want to discuss your past with people you meet, I see no reason to cover up the evidence of your experiences.


DanielK. said:


> I have had more chefs encouraging to get a tattoo over the scar than to leave the scars for the sake of children and others who could potentially see it.


 The scars are evidence of the trauma you went through, which was not your fault. Others who see your scars may have scars of their own, perhaps not visible ones. Seeing yours may prove beneficial for those who had similar experiences. Knowing others have been there can be a great aid in recovery from such experiences. Scars let others know you are a survivor.
If you desire a tattoo for the sake of art, beauty, self expression, etc. by all means get whatever you want. But I suggest that your scars are nothing to hide and your experiences nothing to be ashamed of.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

chefross said:


> Tattoos are the free speech of the young these days. I disagree with foodpumps statement that tats are for the purpose showing off and getting attention. Tattoos are a very personal thing and only mean anything to the person wearing them, not to anyone else, so it should not matter...
> .


I don't understand...If tats are a very personal thing, then why are they there for everyone to see?

Take for example this server at work, has a 6 digit date inked on her left wrist. Customers have asked her about its meaning, co workers, even delivery drivers. Her answer was always "It's personal". Last week a customer remarked that the date was when her daughter was born, and the server complained to me. I asked her why she didn't have the tat on her shoulder, or somewhere that her work clothes covered. She figured I was the spawn of Hitler, Hussain, and Trump, all rolled into one for asking that question...

Yeah, "it's personal"... Right...and my butt chews gum....


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Are wedding rings worn for the sole purpose of attracting attention?


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Yup. Some groups like the Mennonites and Hutterites require unmarried men to be clean shaven, and married to have a full beard.

But rings can be removed at will, and beards can grown or shaved at will. Once that ink is on, it's on for good....


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

foodpump said:


> I don't understand...If tats are a very personal thing, then why are they there for everyone to see?
> 
> Take for example this server at work, has a 6 digit date inked on her left wrist. Customers have asked her about its meaning, co workers, even delivery drivers. Her answer was always "It's personal". Last week a customer remarked that the date was when her daughter was born, and the server complained to me. I asked her why she didn't have the tat on her shoulder, or somewhere that her work clothes covered. She figured I was the spawn of Hitler, Hussain, and Trump, all rolled into one for asking that question...
> 
> Yeah, "it's personal"... Right...and my butt chews gum....


You really don't get the point then. A tattoos placement is just as "personal" as the tattoo itself. 
It is art and a reflection of that person.
Tattoos are here to stay.....(pardon the pun), and society will adapt just as they did for many other things.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

You're right, I don't.

When I was 20, my way of expressing myself-clothing, hairstyle, attitudes, thoughts, even partners, were completely different then what they are today. At 30 changes were different then what my current lifestyle is today. My life changes, I adapt and change with it, and my forms of expression change as well. 

So why permanent ink to express yourself if your life is constantly changing?

But here's' what really Browns me off:
City of Vancouver passed a bylaw for $500 fines for anyone smoking in or near public buildings. Who gets the fine? The property owner. $118 fine for bringing an animal into a restaurant or food store. Who gets the fine? Business owner. $50/day fine for not removing graffiti on buildings. Property owner gets the fine. Worksafe (workers comp. board) passed a law about 6 years ago making employers responsible (fines) for domestic abuse on their employees-- regardless if said violence happened at home. 

So what? All this crappola tells me the authorities are passing the buck off, not being responsible, finding a third party responsible for someone else's actions.

So when I tell a potential line cook prior to the interview that it's an open kitchen and professionalism is a must, and the guy shows up with a skateboard, greasy hair, and a dragon tattoo on his left cheek, and he doesn't get hired, I'm a judgement a-hole and its all my fault. For the deleightfull server who hates customers remarking about her wrist tats, they're all judge mental a-holes.

You're right, I don't get it......


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## DanielK. (May 22, 2018)

I see some points made left and right, but I also see gaps too:
Chefwriter, the reason I do want the tattoo's is for 1, the PTSD when people remark or ask about it and 2, the fact of the matter even as an adult I get really nasty looks when walking down the street if some people notice it. Not everyone looks down on me, but a good 1/6 people will look at me like I am an unstable piece of Sh---.

Foodpump, as you said though statements of how we present is way different now then back in maybe the 80's or 90's. Back then, I'm not to sure about but now a days it's been struct hard on.

Recently I noticed people will crack over the smallest things, how your hair is parted, how you dress, what kinda shoes you wore to the interview, and what to wear to thus interview. 9/10 of my interviews I had something wrong if it was my long hair because it wasn't in a "Nice enough bun and looked like I parted it with a shoe string"~Application to Fred Meyers or even when I signed up at a decent restaurant they and I quote "I feel like you'd be to much of a burden. From what you had described in your life and the idea of the functionality of you right now, we feel like you'd be to much to handle for our staff. We appreciate that you desire to become a Chef, but we think a little bit more maturity is needed before you can handle a line Chef"(Chillis) 

I'm not sure if I'm not living life right, or if me in general is just something someone doesn't want to be around? Yes, when I was younger I made bad decisions, and as of being 20 I still can. However, I've never been so shunned on who I am and how I am more than I do in interviews and sometimes even the beach when I want to relax. That's why I don't get how getting a tattoo is such a bad thing if I am going to be shunned for what I've been through or done. That's why I feel like hiding it is way better than being dissed as a human than letting it be seen.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Hi Danielk.

There are two types of women in this world: mothers, and women who are not mothers. Each group thinks differently, and if/when a woman becomes a mother she will think differently for the rest of her life.

Then there are employers, and employees. An employer has to take responsibility of their employee's actions. They also have to assume financial risk . Hire the wrong person, and it could cost you a lot of money as well as reputation. 

This is why employers judge you during an interview, it's pretty much the reason we conduct interviews, we're hedging our bets a bit before we make a commitment. What caused Chilli's to judge you not being mature enough?

And the tats? What is under your work clothes is none of my business, don't give a rodent's posterior what's there.

What is visible does. (I.e. Face, neck, and hands)

Because what is visible to me is also visible to the customer, and then there's that stupid unwritten law that says I have to be responsible for your actions, no matter what. Believe me when I say I hate that as much as you do, but that's the way it is.

The world would be a better place if people weren't held responsible for other people's actions.......


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## DanielK. (May 22, 2018)

Foodpump, I agree. People being held accountable for others actions is really stupid. It's even more stupid that is has to be places under a law.

As for Chilli's, I mentioned my GPA of 1.4. Technically, I am actually the top of my class.(Which actually showed when I was pushed into a 5th year program because I was sleeping to much as a senior and they made me do jogging and exercise to stay up) In my opinion, I slept because I found it boring and slept during all the class time for the work which in the end push me to a 1.4 when I tested finals of a 3.7 GPA at the end of my Highschool year when I was awake.

When I entered College I showed the same input, however slightly different. In the kitchen I was perhaps the best of my class but when it came to doing the classwork the second half of class I immediately fell asleep. I know the recipes, instructions, and steps towards anything in the kitchen but I was forced out because my classwork was an F even though my Kitchen, Prep, and participation on labs was 100%.

So in the end, Chilli thought I would be a bad hire if I fell asleep on the Job but it's not that I'd fall asleep on the Job it's if I know it or not. If I usually already know it I am asleep but if I don't I am almost always 100% alert to the lessons. My "Lack of motivation" to them wasn't good enough from what I had explained.

What I don't get is why would I attempt College and do great in my Math, English, and overall Culinary classes if I never wanted to become a chef? Yes work ethic on homework is my stalemate but when it comes to the active side of anything I am willing to jump in a moments notice.

As for the tat, as I mentioned it would be a sleeve about an inch above the wrist. It will be hardly seen unless I roll up my sleeves up working FOH. I do regret my decisions and want to cover them up as mentioned before but I've never seen a problem with my sleeve. Granted different restaurants have different attire, but I have known a lot of places having an exception for long sleeves. So if I can wear long sleeves, it can hide the tattoo in work, and the tattoo can hide the scars in public.


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