# Gino's East Pizza Crust



## sodaro

I've been trying to figure out the secret to the pizza crust at Chicago's famous Gino's East for years. Has anyone ever seen the recipe?

In case you have never had it, I'll do my best to describe it and you can feel free to propose your best guesses.

It's a crust for a deep dish pizza. It has an amazing deep yellow, almost orange color to it. It is very crunchy, not bread-like. I was always sure the answer involved corn meal but I think it has to be something else. You can not see grains of cornmeal in the crust but it tastes like it's in there. It's as if it's "corn flavoring".

I've tried cornmeal, beer, tomato paste, corn oil, and corn flour, but none did the trick.

Any thoughts would be apprecited?

Thanks.


----------



## spinnybobo

I know Ginos East Recipe for their deep dish crust. It is top secret and they will not tell you. I know it because I studied pizza crust recipes for deep dish including Lou Malnatis, Pizzeria Uno's, as well as Ginos East. It is really simple.


----------



## deltadoc

Ah, Man, come on. You can't say you know it and it's easy without telling us what it is!



doc


----------



## foodblogger

I went through a whole huge discussion of Gino's East Pizza on my site. You are in luck. You can find the posts here **** Good Food Blog

I hope it helps.


----------



## jock

That's fascinating stuff; very informative. In all the experimenting with the crust did you ever use turmeric as the yellowing agent or would the expense of that cut into Gino's bottom line too much? I am forever on a quest for the perfect pizza crust. Maybe this one is it.

Jock


----------



## keeperofthegood

Hey oh

LOL, you were in my kitchen on Saturday weren't you!!!









I use tumeric as a colourant all the time. In doughs, pastas, and rices. I also use paprika for a nice dull earthy red. Food colourings are too much temptation for the kids to get into, and I like the natural colourations better.

I can't see the price being a factor though. Isn't tumeric actually cheeper?

Oh, and about a tablespoon per 2 pounds flour if your interested.

I do want to try the extended rise and see if the beer taste holds true.


----------



## foodblogger

I tried using turmeric. It was one of many things that I tried but eventually discarded for a number of reasons, not the least of which being the cost and that it didn't taste right. I don't know where to get turmeric cheaper than simple yellow food coloring, but if you have a source please let me know. I use turmeric in a lot of other foods. When I was trying to figure out the Gino's recipe I tried all sorts of things at first but I eventually came to the conclusion that what I was doing was too expensive and too complicated to be done in large batches by people who could be employed cheaply. 

I hope everyone is able to reproduce my results. I don't think I left anything out of the instructions but you never really know until someone points it out. I am actually headed to Chicago next week and I plan to eat dinner at Gino's. I will post pictures of the pie on my blog.

I wonder if Spinnybobo would care to comment as to whether my recipe is close or if I am way off. I have made my version for many friends and relatives from Chicago and they can't tell the difference. I certainly can't tell the difference myself otherwise I would change the recipe.


----------



## chefbrian

Was reading the questions about the colour in the pizza crust of Gino's East. I don't live in Chicago and have never heard of Gino's, but the comment about using food coloring is partly correct. The product used to give the color shown in the photo at **** Good Food Blog is called Yolkoline. Have made tons of Egg Bread using the stuff. It gives the correct color and is cheap to use - a few drops go a long way. Ordinary yellow food colouring invites problems. You can find the stuff at any restaurant supply store. I believe that is what Gino's would use.

chef brian


----------



## pucky900

This is great! I've been wondering for a while how to make their crust. Gino's is expanding in the Chicago area and they added one to my home town about a year ago.Going to try this recipe, order one from Gino's and then report back to the group.

We have a lot of great pizza spots in Chicago and Gino's is one of my favorites.


----------



## spinnybobo

Turmeric is way off. Never tasted it though, so dont disgard the idea if you like it. But, it is off concerning Ginos recipe.

they flavor it in the following:
1. the oil (mix of two different oils)
2. the special flavor enhancer
3. and the fact that the dough used to make a pizza has been made 2 days prior to being used----thus it gets fermented in the frig while sitting stretched in a pizza pan for 2 days. Or, if you want the same effect, let it sit out one day out of the frig. The consistency of the crust will be different if it was in the frig or out of the frig. Put it in the frig to be more consistent with Ginos.

Also, their pan is made out of a certain type of steel. It is seasoned black.

so, make some guesses about which oil you think they use. and percentages of the two.
also, there are three ingredients to the flavor enhancer. One of them is yellow dye # 5. One is sugar. What is the other one? 

Last, Gino's East does not use corn meal. There is one Ginos east franchise that does. And, Ginos on Rush does. However, corn meal is very bitter and ALL of the recipes given that tell you to use corn meal all result in a bad taste that is WAY off. Only use 1 tablespoon of corn meal to 1 pound of Bread flour (yes bread flour because of the gluten content)

I prefer NO corn meal.


----------



## dancer

So here's what I tried last night and it was excelllent. A combo from spinnybobo and foodblogger:

Gino's East Pizza Crust Recipe
tweaked from foodblogger's and spinnybobo's directions

1 cup of warm water w/touch of sugar
1 package yeast
1T cornmeal (I know it's not really in there)
1 teaspoon salt
1T corn oil
1T olive oil
2 ½ to 3 cups bread flour
¼ tsp yellow food coloring

Take the water and put it in your mixer. add yeast and a touch of sugar. Let the yeast foam up to be sure that it is active. Then add the rest of the ingredients including 2 1/2 cups flour. Knead the dough until it is well combined. If the dough is sticky add a little more flour. The dough should be moist but not sticky. Knead the dough for 10 minutes. Put it in the oven to rise. If you desire a late in the day pizza taste (beer like), then let it rise all day.


Gino's East Pizza sauce from canned plum tomatos:

one 28 ounce can of plum or roma tomatos – less ¼ c of the sauce before you mush it
1 tsp salt 
a pinch of basil
a pinch of oregano
fresh ground black pepper

Take the tomatos and sauce and place into a bowl. Using a potato masher or just your hands, mash the tomatos up so that there are no chunks bigger around than a quarter. Once this is done, add the rest of the ingredients and stir. Adjust the salt and pepper to taste. Do not use too much basil or oregano.


The Cheese

16 oz low-moisture part skim mozzarella

Be absolutely sure that you don't buy the low fat version of any mozzarella. It will not melt right and you will hate it. 

Assembling the pizza – cook for about 45 minutes

Preheat oven to 350. After the dough has risen take your deep dish pizza pan (or a round cake pan with straight sides) and coat the inside of it with a very healthy coating of melted butter. Roll the dough out to about 3 inches larger than the bottom of the pan and pinch the dough up along the sides of the pan. Now put your cheese in (right on the crust). Then add your pepperoni, and finally your sauce. Bake in the oven until the crust is starting to brown and cheese is starting to bubble up through the sauce. The little edges of the pepperoni should also be starting to crisp. It took me about 45 minutes.

Shopping list:

12” deep dish pizza pan (I prefer black)
16 oz low-moisture part skim mozzarella
1 28 ounce can of plum or roma tomatos
Basil
Oregano
Salt
Pepper 
Pepperoni (or other fillings)
Yeast
Corn oil
Olive oil
Corn meal
Bread flour
Yellow food coloring
sugar
butter


----------



## spinnybobo

Great Job Dancer!! 

Although, Ginos uses a TON of oil. You got the oils right. However, they use 95% corn and 5 % Extra Virgin Olive Oil. Do not use regular olive oil. Just buy some Corn oil and take out 5% by volume and add same amount of Extra Virgin Olive Oil. 

Then, for every 1 cup of water, use 1/3 cup of oil. Also, you can use 1 Tablespoon of corn meal like you put in there, however, there other secret ingredient is about 1 tsp cream of tartar. Ginos does not use corn meal. 

So, 

1 Cup water
1 package yeast
1/3 cup oil mixture
1 T sugar
1 tsp cream of tartar
1 lbs Bread Flour

In a bowl, put water (luke warm), then yeast, oil, cream of tartar, and sugar. Mix with hand until yeast dissolves. Then, pour in Bread Flour a little at a time. Mix with your hand. Just curve your hand like a dough hook and hold the bowl and mix. Then, knead it until it gets firm. Add more flour if needed. Secret is also in the kneading. Knead it for about 10 minutes straight. Then, roll it into a ball, and put it in a bowl with oil brushed in the sides. Cover with plastic wrap and a kitchen towel. let sit overnight unrefrigerated. Only let it rise once. Portion and use. 

And, the kind of pan they use is a Tinned Steel pan that is seasoned. And, when you cook it, make sure you put oil in the pan also. Stretch it out in the pan and put a layer of cheese over it. Then, put it in the fridge for about a day. Then, take it out and put another layer of cheese, then sauce, then pecorino romano cheese and oregano. 

I am sure your sauce taste great, but I would really go to Dominicks and try the Italian chef pastoreli pizza sauce. Dont add anything to it. Put it on pizza and then put a little romano cheese. 

For thin crust pizza, if you like a sweet sauce, use prego right out of the can. But, that is truly Gino's recipe minus the corn meal. 

I am only giving away my hard earned secret because you guys are all so passionate about this crust. So, use it and enjoy it because this is Ginos east recipe. ))))))))))


Good job Dancer


----------



## dancer

Thanks, you made my day (month, year, etc)!


----------



## gonefishin

:lips: thanks a bunch!

Inspired by this thread, I just recently tried a new crust recipe and wasn't at all happy with it. It wasn't terrible, but it just wasn't what I was trying for.

Your right about the Italian chef pastoreli pizza sauce too 


thanks!

dan


----------



## spinnybobo

Your welcome

dont forget about the yellow food coloring.


----------



## love_doc

Hi, I've never worked at a Gino's, but I was a restaurant manager for 8 years and am pretty good at determining prep methods for dishes. I've made my own pizza crusts for years, and was very impressed with the taste, consistency and pleasing look of the Gino's product. I rushed right home to try to recreate it, and while I do not have access to their actual recipe, I've got the taste and look down pretty good. I don't think turmeric is involved at all. I just use a standard pizza crust recipe, splitting the flour equally between regular and bread flour. I also add about 3 TB of corn meal. I believe the golden color comes from either spraying or brushing olive oil on the crust prior to baking. I've been to Gino's again after trying this, and I believe that's all it is, a combination of corn meal and olive oil. Try it yourself and see what you think. My family says my crust is actually better than Gino's!
Enjoy!


----------



## gonefishin

Thanks again spinnybobo 


I just got done eating your Gino's East pizza crust...and it was delicious! :lips: 

Among all the cheese and sauce I also stuffed it with some Italian sausage/ground beef balls, roasted tomatoes, garlic and zucchini. 

It really turned out great...thank you 

dan


----------



## foodblogger

I just made Gino's again last night. I thought I would check on the status of this thread. I see that someone has added cream of tartar to the recipe. I haven't tried making it this way but I will have to try it. I am not sure what that would add to the dough but it might be interesting. That particular poster also recommended using a lot of oil to make the dough. I have been adding a little more oil to the crust lately and I like the way it changes the consistency. I have been using more like 1/4 cup corn oil per cup water.

I don't know about all of the satellite Gino's restaraunts, but the one that was on Superior Street right by Northwestern in Chicago (before it moved over to Rush street) DID use cornmeal in the crust. There wasn't a lot of cornmeal in it but there WAS SOME. They may have changed in recent years but I like the way it tasted when it was on Superior street. I don't know if you have eaten Uno's at any of the various satellite locations across the country, but the satellite pizza doesn't taste anything like the pizzas served in downtown Chicago. I suspect that Gino's may be doing something similar at its satellites.

Also brushing olive oil on the crust will not give the crust a through and through yellow color like you get at Gino's. As I discussed in my blog, I tried to duplicate that color for about 10 years until I finally figured out that they were adding yellow food coloring to the dough. That was the biggest DUH moment I have had in the kitchen. Anyway if there is still interest here are links to the recipes as I posted them on my blog a year ago:

Gino's Link1

and

Gino's Link2


----------



## z~bestus

SODDARO:
Good Evening. I would like to just say my friend that you are correct in your assumtion of the cornmeal in Mr. Gino's pizza dough recipe. The reason why it isn't grainy like others have expiercing in doing the recipe is because Mr. Gino uses Quacker Oats brand of Corn meal. To avoid the grainniness he grinds the cornmeal very very very extra fine in a coffee grinder. He then sifts it. Another secret is the order he mixes the ingredients. Oh yes my friend he uses butter & olive-oil for the fat ingredient. I hope this information helps you & provides you with some insight to continue experimenting till you succeed in getting the pie concoction that satisfys you. Good luck in your quest & enjoy the balance of the week-end what is left of it.
~Z~BESTUS


----------



## toota

thankxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## bearfootie

:crazy: Hi, I'm new to this site. Ginos has always ranked third as my favorite pizza crust although similar to the above two in some ways. Any body have any info on Lous or Unos/Duos old recipe? ( Unos, who by the way has changed their recipe at the Chi location and now tastes more like their less than palatable satelite locations) There is also a pizza restaurant called Georgios in Crystal lake and one I beleive in Lake in the Hills that has the same pizza maybe slightly better than Lous. It says on an article on their wall that he used to work for either Lous or Unos, can't remember which. Pizza has a little stronger/richer yeast flavor maybe? Anyway anyone know their secrets? Recently moved to Montana and am going thru severe withdrawl, although you can get "Lou to Go" overnight but the shipping is $26.00! Then $10.00 for each pizza ordered in addition. Montana being 50th in the state for low income, can't see me ordering to many! Help! ( P.S. Definitely going to try the Gino's recipe, Spinny! Thanks!) Need to move back to Chi area and marry a pizza lover!


----------



## gonefishin

Hi bearfootie,

here's a thread, at pizzamaking.com, that talks about "lou's" recipe. It also has some people talking about PAPA GEORGIO'S pizza too.

This is the Lou Malnati's Pizzeria recipe from FoodNetwork. Given to them by Marc Malnati.

Keep in mind...I haven't tried either of the above recipes. But I'd love to hear how they turn out 

dan


----------



## epicous

foodblogger:
In the recipe it is written "If the dough is sticky add a little more flour."
It must say 'water' instead?


----------



## foodblogger

That is BS. That misconception comes from a recipe that I posted on the topsecretrecipes.com forum in the mid 1990's. I was on the wrong track then. Thankfully topsecretrecipes no longer displays that recipe, but if you do a google search for Gino's East Pizza Recipe the top site that comes up has a chopped down version of my recipe taken word for word from that recipe. They chopped it up so much that it no longer makes sense.

I am beginning to question whether or not there is cornmeal in the crust any more. I am the same foodblogger on pizzamaking.com, and in the thread on that site a lot of people swear that there is no cornmeal in the crust. I personally can't say anymore. The last time I ate at Gino's was in 2001. Many people think that they have changed their recipe.


----------



## foodblogger

Actually the way it is written is correct. If your dough feels very sticky it probably needs just a touch more flour.


----------



## radtek

I'm thinking that corn oil isn't all that neutral and may contribute to the subtle "corny" flavor of the crust.

I'm really a NY thin crust kinda guy, but the appeal of the thick hearty meat-pie aspect of Chicago-style has me experimenting with great results. 

Now I'm a 50-50 depending on mood, finances and time.

BTW, Gino's has a tremendous rep as the best Chicago pizza throughout the USA.


----------



## jolly roger

The last restaurant I was chef at, we had a wood fired oven and offered the wood fired pizza experience. I got playful with our dough recipe and came up with a one part semolina to three parts cake flour combination. So one day I took some of the 10 ounce portioned dough, greased a few rectangular baking pans and let the dough proof in the pan. I then gave a quick docking and sauce and cheesed it and baked in the deck oven in the back kitchen at 400 degrees for about twenty minutes. It came out beautiful. It was airy, crispy and the lard I used gave it a nice golden brown crust on the bottom. Here's the dough recipe. Sorry I didn't have time to break it down to a smaller batch:
3 lbs. semolina
9 lbs. cake flour
7 lbs. h2o
6 oz. yeast
1 cup honey
6 oz. salt
1 cup olive oil


----------



## bdn

I worked for Ginos for 9 years. There is no corn meal. What makes the crust yellow is Yellow Dye # 3. The ingredient that make the dough lite and airy is a Dough conditioner that you would you as if you were frying beer batter chicken. They only use pure olive oil in the bottom of the pan. Theis is why the crust comes out so crunchy. The dough is only made in the morning , not made 2 days in advance.


----------



## mikelm

The Gino's pizzas, to me (a 30-year Chicago resident) are pretty much like a loaf of bread with tomato sauce and stuff on it. Not my thing.

Ten or twelve years ago I took a series of cooking classes with prominent Chicago chefs. This is a cracker-thin, whole-wheat pizza crust taught by Tony Mantuano, then Exec Chef of _Spiagga_, an upscale Italian restaurant at the North end of the Magnificant Mile on Michigan Avenue. He's since started his own place way up north, like Waukegan, or something. Mezz' might be able to add some details, since I think it's closer to Milwaukee that Chicago. He has had big reviews in the metro papers.

Anyhow... his recipe for cracker-crust pizza dough:

4 Cups flour
2 oz whole wheat flour
1/4 oz. yeast
3/4 oz. olive oil
1/2 to 1 quart water
1/4 oz. salt
1/4 oz. honey

Place 1/2 qt. lukewarm water in bowl with honey, yeast and olive oil. Whisk all together until yeast and honey are dissolved.

Proof

Put flours and salt in mixing bowl using dough hook.

Mix flour to assure equal distribution.

Add yeast mixture, mix, then add more water if needed. Work until smooth, soft, and elastic.

Proof at room temperature for 1 to 2 hours.

Knock down and refrigerate.

Yield- 2 pounds pizza dough.

Roll/pull this out to a VERY thin pizza crust and then proceed with the toppings of your choice.

A favorite with our family.

Mike


----------



## stevel

Gino's East is more similar to Giordano's and Leonardo's than Uno's and Malnati's (which tend to be very greasy).

None of them use corn meal, but use a food coloring called "egg shade" (this according to Pat Bruno).

Chicago deep dish pizza uses AP flour (not bread flour). Uno's uses cake flour.

Chicago deep dish pizza crust depends on two things: 1. lots of oil (around 3 tablespoons [not teaspoons] per cup of flour); and 2. a very short kneading time (2-3 minutes).

These two things create the biscuit-like texture of the crust.


----------



## muskyhopeful

I made a deep dish pizza last night from a recipe I learned from Pizzamaking.com. It is supposedly quite close to the Lou Malnati's crust. Like the last poster pointed out, it has high oil to flour ratio. This recipe was 23%. The crust, however came out light and crunchy, but not greasy. It was darn good if I say so myself. It was also my first try, so I'm extra happy about it. I'm going to IL this weekend and am planning to eat at Lou's, then I'll know how I did with the crust.

I was so proud I took pictures.  

Kevin

I like Muskies.


----------



## oldschool1982

Kevin,

That's, that's, that's just downright and outright mean!  C'mon we ain't got smell-o-net or taste-o-net yet. Didn't your mother teach ya 'bout playing nice!!!!!:lol: 

BTW that sure is a nice looking Pie!!!!!!:bounce: :lips: E-mail me the recipe. Hehehe


----------



## nofifi

Oh thank you, thank you, I've tried to duplicate that crust for years!!! I used saffron for the yellow flavor all these years in my pizza dough but it gets costly. Thanks again for the recipe!!!!!


----------



## smilie

I recently found out that Wikipedia has a page for "Chicago Style Pizza". I don't know who is editing the content on it but it needs some help. 

There are some things on there that are right on but other statements make you wonder if the editors are from Chicago or if they have ever tried the various pizzas in Chicagoland.

A few people here could really make some improvements to the page to make it more accurate. I would do it but you guys really know your stuff ... So go and set the record straight!


BTW I made my version of Lou's after reading this thread and getting the craving. Most of the recipes listed here are basically what I do. I use 2 parts water to 1 part canola oil and real butter combo. And I use 3 parts flour to 1 part semolina. The sauce is basically whole peeled tomatoes (packed in puree) that is handcrushed and sprinkled with grated parmesan.

Also someone asked about using or adapting this dough for thin crust pizza but IMHO this is not right. These recipes are best for pan pizza. Thin crust calls for a less flaky and more chewy dough. Except for very thin crust which should be cracker-like.


----------



## mezzaluna

I'm jumping in kind of late, but Tony Manutano is chef in a good Italian place in Kenosha called Mangia. (My husband and I ate there the day we got our marriage license. ) I believe it was his cousin that started the business in a former gas station.

Here's a review by a critic whose sensibilities I usually agree with: http://www.onwisconsin.com/dining/dining.asp?id=1759.

The food is consistently excellent in my experience. They were the first to have a wood-fired oven between Milwaukee and Chicago, I think, when they opened more than 15 years ago. (I lived in Kenosha for 18 years. Pizza's the thing there. You can have a different style every day for a year, and it's almost all great pizza.)


----------



## peterubers

I'm definitely chiming in very late (I see the last post was in January of this year ..)

Basically, a little about me: I'm a pizza LOVER!! I was born and raised and currently live in Chicago, and nothing (for me) beats (in this order, of best to second best): Gino's East, Lou Malnati's, Uno's/Due's, Giordanno's. 

I've have been perfecting my pizza dough recipe for about 10 years now, and have NEVER experimented (let alone KNEW about) cold fermentation. Spinnybobo's recipe is one of several I've tried recently to get to my favorite pizza recipe --> Gino's East.

Spinny's recipe is spot on (in my honest opinion).

I added all of the ingredients spinny suggested, I used the 95:5 (corn:extra virgin olive) oil ratio, and I used the cream of tartar (McCormick). The only thing I didn't use was the food coloring (i surely would have used it if it had ANYthing AT ALL to do with taste, and since it was strictly for looks, i decided to pass on it).

Here's what I did with timing, and I think this was CRITICAL to my success:

If I was going to serve my fresh, deep dish pizza at 7pm on Friday evening, I prepared my dough on Wednesday at 5pm. I mixed all the ingredients (I only had to used about 2.5 cups of bread flour, not the whole 3 cups) starting at 5pm. I used 1 T of rapid rise yeast and 1 tsp of sugar and placed this in 110 degree water and let this sit until a nice frothy foam developed on top of the water/yeast/sugar mixture (about 5 minutes). I then mixed this into the remaining ingredients. I made sure to add flour very very very slowly (I do not have a kitchen aide, so i did this by hand initially with a wisk) until I absolutely had to continue to mix in flour with my hand.

As mentioned above, I only ended up using 2.5-2.75 cups of bread flour (makes enough for ONE nine-inch deep dish pizza) and began to knead it after all the ingredients were mixed. As Spinny mentioned, I kneaded meticulously for a total of 10 minutes, no more, no less. By the time the kneading was done, the dough was tacky/sticky, but no dough stuck to my fingers or the countertop. I then heavily oiled a bowl with extra virgin olive oil, placed the dough in there, and covered it with plastic wrap and then a kitchen towel. I then placed it in an area of the kitchen that is a bit warmer than room temp (it's close to the fridge, so the heat from the back of the fridge helps the fermentation process). 

I let the dough rise from 5pm on wednesday (when i made it) to the next day (thursday) at 11 am when I then placed it in the refrigerator. I did not punch down the dough at ANY time. Sometimes, while manipulating the bowl (i.e. when moving it temporarily or when placing it into the fridge, the dough level would drop down a little -- no big deal). I never actively punched it down. 

Now, on friday, the day of baking --> I pull the dough out of the fridge at 3pm and let it get up to room temperature. Around 5pm, I pull the dough out of the bowl, flour my countertop, and then evenly roll the dough into a circle that is 1/3 - 1/4 inch thick. The dough will be very fragile, so take care to flour it up while manipulating it so that it won't stick to the counter top or itself and then rip. I then VERY carefully dropped it onto and into my NINE 9" inch deep dish pan (non-stick, bottom drops out, purchased from Target) which is HEAVILY lathered in extra virgin olive oil. I pinch the dough at the top and use any excess to fill in/seal holes that occured in the dough while dropping it into the dish (if you're careful, you won't have any, but if you do, do not worry).

I then sprinkled a nice even layer of Romano cheese (aged, dried) on the entire base of the dough so that the entire bottom is evenly covered with a layer of the Romano. I then filled the dish with mozzarella (Lucerne) cheese until about 1/2 of the dish was filled with Mozzarella (it's a lot of cheese but TOTALLY worth it and necessary). I then added my other toppings. I made sure to sprinkle all my toppings with some mozzarella and Romano cheese as I added them so it pulled everything together when it baked. I finally added my custom pizza sauce (see recipe below) to the top.

Baking: Preheat your oven to 425 degrees. Place in the MIDDLE rack, and bake for exactly 40 minutes, no more, no less. Let cool for 5 minutes and serve and enjoy. 

Sauce recipe:

28 oz. crushed tomatoes
1 can tomato sauce
1 tsp sugar -- to eliminate acidity.
1 tsp salt/garlic salt
black pepper to taste
oregano, basil, italian seasoning to taste
2 T extra virgin olive oil
1 T corn oil
Romano cheese to taste
Sausage chunks for taste
Crushed (2 or three) garlic cloves to taste
Add AP or bread flour a little at a time to thicken sauce (also reduces acidity)
Simmer for 30-40 minutes to reduce acidity and blend seasonings
Refrigerate overnight
Bring to room temp and then simmer over stove before applying to top of deep dish pizza.

This pizza sauce is good enough for TWO nine 9" inch deep dish pizzas. So only use 1/2 of it for one pizza. Too much sauce will kill the pizza, so resist the urge to add more.

I thank Spinnybobo for the AWESOME dough recipe -- it's got that famous beer taste that Gino's has, as well the exact texture/crispiness -- almost that biscuit like texture in addition to the right amount of oil taste. It's beautiful.

THANK YOU SPINNYBOBO!!!


----------



## stevel

You don't want to use bread flour, as true Chicago deep dish depends on a biscuit-like crust. Use AP.

Through many hours of experimentation, I found that the correct ratio of oil to flour is 3 TBS (not tsp) oil: 1 cup flour. Then a very short knead (1-2 minutes).

Uno's uses pastry flour and crushed whole tomatoes. Malnati's uses crushed tomatoes as well. Giordano's uses 6-in1 tomatoes and Stella cheese. Gino's East uses EVOO in their crust and crushed whole tomatoes (and, I believe, cream of tartar).

The golden color of Chicago deep dish pizza comes from a food coloring called "egg shade". The cornmeal myth seems to stem from a recipe published years ago by Jeff Smith, which isn't even close to how authentic Chicago deep dish is made, but which has been promulgated widely on the Internet.


----------



## bluezebra

OMG that is really awesome that you shared the crust recipe! I've been trying for a little over 6 months now, to get the perfect deep dish crust! I can't wait to try this!

Now that you have given us the crust recipe...could we talk sauce?
What is the Pastoreli pizza sauce recipe? Does anyone have an inkling?

TIA!!! You all rock!


----------



## stevel

Try 6-in-1 tomatoes--this is what Giordano's uses. Add a little salt, sugar and spices to your taste.


----------



## sprynkles

Okay I must do this! Pizza is my religion and this is my mission!
What sort of deep dish black pan is best? I don't want to bake with
aluminium. *Any recommendations*?
Home Shopping Network is selling Gino's East pizzas. Two 9 inch pies
for 25.00 with a 13.00 shipping charge. Too spendy for me, so I
will be a dough slinger and a tomato squisher for the very first time. 
I can not wait!!!!
Thanks all.


----------



## muskyhopeful

I use the anodized (dark PSTK coating) aluminum I purchased from this site. There is a picture of a pizza I made above in this thread. They work very well.

Deep dish pizza pans

Kevin

Packers 3 Wins 0 Losses


----------



## chefraz

Thats the place where all the grafitti all over the walls huh? carved into the wood.right? I've been there. GOOD pizza late at night on rush street.


----------



## sprynkles

Thanks for the link Kevin.
Still haven't tried the recipe yet, but if it
comes out looking half as good as yours
I'll be happy!:lips:


----------



## foodblogger

Finally got around to making a video on how to make a Gino's East Style pizza.

It won't let me post a link so head on over you youtube and search for Gino's East Style Pizza at home.


----------



## iswhaticrave

Delicious!


----------



## shreyam

Dancer, thanks for the recipe


----------



## _as_

I used the recipe posted by Dancer ( on the first page) and all I got was bread. It was a good crust, and I made enough dough to make a deep dish and a 'thin' crust for the kids, but it wasnt Ginos. What did I do wrong? Let it rise too many times? I used regular flour, and followed the directions. :-(

I've moved from the chicago area recently and really need my ginos fix!! help!

thanks.


----------



## nanhere

but looking forward to experimenting with your versions of Gino's East pizza.

Just ate Gino's Supreme pizza tonight! It was AWESOME :lips:...especially since I've wanted to go there for over 1 year. :roll:

Chef Talk looks like a wonderful place to spend some time and learn new things in the kitchen.


----------



## jabez

I hate to throw a monkey wrench into this discussion especially b/c I likely won't be back to participate, but I believe that Gino's East is gluten free. My gf and her father can eat it with no side effects. And they both have sensitivity even to spelt flour.


----------



## traylor1

I just made my first ever trip to Chicago this past week and on Sunday ate at the original Gino's East. Marvelous pizza!

As soon as I got home I started looking for a copycat of the recipe, so I tried this. Very good pie indeed.

Here is what I found different (since it was just 5 days ago I had this it is still fresh in my memory).

My pie was not as thick on the bottom crust, in fact it came out fairly thin. I almost wonder if the grease from the pepperoni didn't mess with it.

The crust did not have the cornmeal like grit in it. I know others have said Gino's does not use cornmeal, but there IS something in it that makes it gritty.

It needed more cheese. When we cut into our pie at Gino's, it was stringy with cheese. Tonight's had cheese there, but did not stretch (maybe it was absorbed into the crust somewhat?)

Finally 28 oz was way too much sauce. I have a 15 inch pan and we used about 3/4 of the recipe and it was still too thick. I am going to try 14 oz next time.

Finally, I live in Kansas, the void of the world. The only tomatoes I could find were Hunt's. I used your recipe for the sauce and it was WAY too sweet. When we ate there this past week, it tasted more like a spaghetti sauce on their pie. So I added some spaghetti sauce seasoning and it was perfect. I am sure if I had a better brand of tomatoes, such as 6 in 1 available to me, it would make a big difference. I am going to need to look around.

In all though, I was very happy with it. This was a great recipe. Thanks for sharing your legwork with us.:bounce:


----------



## kirstens

Ginos is good but if you come to Chicago, check out Bacino's. My favorite personally.


----------



## pizzabuff23

i would like to know more about the dough conditioner since there are several and how to use it on the dough. do they add it to the dough when the flour is being mixed or do they add it to the dough afterwards?

pizzabuff23


----------



## palebrand

Oh thank you, thank you, I've tried to duplicate that crust for years!!! I used saffron for the yellow flavor all these years in my pizza dough but it gets costly. Thanks again for the recipe!!!!!
[hr][/hr]
<spanTravel to Cambodia  / <spanVoyage au Vietnam  / <spanVietnam Volunteer


----------



## stevel

AS--

Look at my recipe above. Then you won't have bread anymore.


----------



## lberns1

Here is my shot at it using Spinny'bobos recipe and Caputo Tipo '00' flour:





Coming from Detroit, I only have Detroit style pans similar to what is used by Buddy's Pizza. I think it turned out well. I'll have to let it cook a little longer next time. I made a Spinach/Mushroom/Feta as well.


----------



## homemadecook

I am a pizza lover also and also making my own pizza crust for my pizza. Well, I haven't tried any of Gino's pizza but I'll try the crust recipe of Dancer because I was intrigue of the cornmeal taste of the crust. That for the recipe and info.


----------



## indygal

Oh, you people are making me hungry!  last time I was in Chicago, (Niles) I had a mindset that I was going to get to Gino's this time.  Last few times the clerk at my hotel talked me into Lou's pizza.  But one thing and another, I didn't make it to Gino's.  No hardship, I really like Lou's.   Thanks to everyone for all the pizza crust info.  I've been searching for a really wonderful crust.  

Donna


----------



## indygal

Hi sprynkles,

I'm not sure a special pan is called for. I get around needing a black pan by putting the springform pan I make mine in (used for quiches) very close to the pizza stone I have in the bottom of my oven at all times. I believe there is extra heat that way on the bottom (not sides, but the sides of my springform pan are golden where the bottom is shiny. It turns out good, but if you are a perfectionist, go ahead and go for the special pan.

DD


sprynkles said:


> Okay I must do this! Pizza is my religion and this is my mission!
> What sort of deep dish black pan is best? I don't want to bake with
> aluminium. *Any recommendations*?


----------



## indygal

I don't understand why the Cream of Tarter is in there.  I know it is used with items that need baking powder or soda to rise. What advantage is the acidic property of Cream of Tarter in a yeast mixture???   I use it when whipping egg whites or heavy cream, but I don't understand what it does to yeast.  Does it affect the texture?  What?

TIA

DD


----------



## stevel

Cream of tartar is a dough conditioner. There is no real need to use it, if you follow a proper recipe.

Again, there is no cornmeal in Chicago deep dish pizza. There is no need to use anything but all-purpose flour.

If you want to duplicate the yellow color of the crust, use food coloring (as the restaurants do).

This is a good recipe (multiply as necessary):

1 cup all-purpose flour

7 Tablespoons water

3-4 Tablespoons oil (Giordano's uses canola oil; Uno's and Malnati's use corn oil; Gino's east throws some extra virgin olive oil in the mix-it's probably a combination of this and canola)

1 teaspoon fast-rise yeast (I thuink it's better to proof it beforehand, even though you don't need to)

½ teaspoon sugar

¾ teaspoon Kosher salt

Mix for 1 minute; knead for two minutes. Then let rise at room temperature for at least 6 hours (the dough ball will not rise as much as normal dough, due to less yeast distribution and the heavy oil). You can do a longer refrigerator rise, if you like.

After the dough has risen, punch it down and let it rest for 10 minutes. Then you can either roll it out (like Giordano's-they use a sheeter), or press it into the pan by hand. Then layer in the cheese, toppings, and cover with sauce. You can put on a thin top layer (to make a "stuffed" pizza, if you like-but the sauce goes on last).

Bake at 450 for around 30 minutes (your oven will vary). I like to start mine out on the bottom rack, then move it to the middle rack after half the time. You can par-bake the crust, too, before addign toppings.

For the sauce, use good quality crushed tomatoes (Giordano's uses 6-in-1) or crush whole peeled canned tomatoes by hand and drain the juice (as Uno's and Malnati's does). Add salt, sugar, and spices to your taste.


----------



## homemadecook

I'm really getting curious with the crust. Does anyone now had made it perfectly?


----------



## spinnybobo

Wow, I have been gone for a long time. just coming back to see how many people have tried out my recipe for Gino's crust.

I am really happy to see the passion in all of you and dedication to follow the recipe to the tee I never had a thought to figure out

Gino's east recipe until 1992 when I moved to florida and could not get good pizza (at least not chicago style pizza---even the thin crust tasted different)

so, I thought the books would have it since "everything you want to know should come from a book." well, I got The Great chicago style pizza cookbook and was dissapointed. I actually found out that the cornmeal made the crust taste bitter. Gino's on Rush uses cornmeal, however, they do it right by not adding that much. The books say to add like 1/2 cup, but in reality , you can only add 1 tablespoon per

1 lbs of flour.

some asked why add creme of tartar? well, it actually adds a unique flavor which is not there otherwise. it is very suble.

This gino's crust makes an excellent thin crust also. Just put flour on countertop and roll it out until thin. then, since it is fragile, fold it in half and then in half again. You probably need a pizza peel, but if you have a big cutting board that might work. put cormeal on peel, then unfold dough. sauce it and then put on cheese.

for those of you who live near chicago, you can go to a italian specialty shop and get Chellino cheese. It is expensive, but is probably the best for thin crust since it makes a nice crust on top and does not burn as fast. This is going to make your pizza taste like Aurelio's Pizza or Sanfratello's Pizza from south side of chicago.

however, using the Gino's crust, you will taste what happens when you mix it with thin crust and Chellino cheese. the creme of tartar I think helps give it a depth. so, you need to cook it on a stone.

so, roll on counter

fold in 1/2, then in 1/2 again

cornmeal pizza peel

475 oven with stone in there

unfold pizza on top of cornmeal

put on sauce

romano cheese, then Chellino cheese

10 minutes to greatness

some asked about sauce I mentioned called Pastorelli Italian chef pizza sauce

here is a picture. http://www.pastorelli.com/wdk_pas/w...z/icps_15oz/15oz_italian_chef_pizza_sauce.jsp

The type of pan if you do deep dish is a tinned steel pan. wash it and then season it by heating up oven to 500

coat pan with thin coat of corn and olive oil (the secret mixture). then make sure there are no puddles

put in there for a good while not sure how long. it might set off your smoke detector

Although Gino's is my specialty, I also have good recipes for Pizzeria Uno's, Lou Malatis , and for you south side chicago people, I also know Aurelio's Pizza (http://www.aureliospizza.com/menu/pizza.php) , Sanfratello's Pizza (http://www.sanfratellos.com/menu-dine-in-glenwood.pdf) and Arrennello's Pizza with sweet sauce

( http://www.arrenellos.com/)

I am thinking of eventually making a video for production of not only showing recipes but also making each and every pizza so you can see me do it.

let me know what you think

keep up with the pizza's


----------



## stevel

There is no cornmeal in Gino's East pizza crust (you can view their ingredients list on their frozen pizzas at the grocery store). Pat Bruno in his Chicago pizza book does not take into account the right amount of oil in deep dish recipes or the necessity of the short kneading time--therefore the result is bread with tomato sauce and cheese.

I believe you are talking about Chellino Scamorza cheese. It's great pizza cheese, but is not used by Aurelio's.

I cannot recommend the Pastorelli pizza sauce--it tastes very "canned" and the consistency is too thick. Plus the genral taste is off. Find a good brand of crushed or ground tomatoes (6-in-1, Pastene, Cento All-In-One, etc.) and make your own sauce (do not cook)--it makes all the difference in the world (and these are the brands that the pizzerias use).


----------



## miloman

I guess i might be little late in making a comment about how to make the famous Gino's crust. I too studied it for years to trying and figure it out. I even got as far as talking to the old lady the made the original recipe many years ago. She hinted but wouldn't tell me. I finally figured it out. Took awhile.

In reviewing all the posts on this thread, no one has hit the nail on the head yet. Your on the right path, but just the wrong process. There isn't any food coloring in the pizza by the way.

If you want to know what ingredients your missing email me.

Mike


----------



## spinnybobo

Hi

yes, I know there is no cornmeal in their deep dish.  I said if you take their deep dish and make it into a thin crust using cornmeal on the peel and sliding it into the deck over on the stone, it gives it a totally different interesting flavor.

@miloman:  why not just post your recipe and the missing ingredients? 

as far as accuracy, I think it is about as close as I can get because actually I worked there for a day and made the crust and the pizzas and saw the packet flavor enhancer and it said yellow dye, etc.. So, from my view, this is the recipe.

thanks

Spencer


----------



## dimples3130

OMG.  We went to Chicago last summer on vacation and ate at Ginos East.  The BEST pizza!  I wouldn't begin to try to make it at home but I'm sure ready to go back to Chicago for a slice (or two).


----------



## stevel

Spinnybobo--

Your recipe on page one is correct except for the kneading time. If you knead a Chicago deep dish crust for ten minutes, you will get bread, not the biscuit-like texture of the authentic deep dish pie. You need to mix for one minute and knead for no more than two minutes. Then let the dough rise a long time. At commissaries for Chicago pizza chains the dough sits in big piles, just oozing all that oil. A good ratio of flour to oil is 3 Tablespoons oil to 1 cup flour.


----------



## mersereaudesign

If you know the recipie for the sweet arrenellos sauce I'd love to try to make it at home


----------



## coral

I find this site interesting, but rather confusing that you must go to the END to see the most recent entries..That being said, *what is the most current and accurate receipe for Gino's East pizza dough, and sauce? would LOVE to see it (again??) to end confusion. My thanks to ALL...*


----------



## suek

Hi Miloman,

I would love to try your Ginos East pizza recipe!  How do you make it?

Many thanks!

Sue


----------



## willbkool

Quit hitting refresh... lol

Exit your browser and reopen this site.


----------



## lo574

You're right a/b the corn meal in the downtown [original] location but they definitely dropped it in the prepacked deep dish now sold in the frozen food section. Big disappointment. The original is still the best.


----------



## curtispnw

Ok, I have never had Gino's East pizza, but made the dough yesterday morning, let it rise on the counter all day, made my own sauce, used pepperoni, salami, meatballs, ricotta cheese, mozzarella cheese, parmasan cheese, onion, green pepppers, mushrooms saute'd with olive oil and garlic, used a sheet pan a little smaller than a half sheet, Turned out Awesome, Thumbs up, thanks for sharing, 98% of pizza places 50 miles radius from me are mediore at best and none of them do a chicago deep dish


----------



## lo574

Now if we could only recreate Sanfratellos and Aurelios sauces.............but that'd take up a whole new thread. *LOL* Thank you [ALL] for sharing. Bon Appetit!


----------



## spinnybobo

mersereaudesign said:


> If you know the recipie for the sweet arrenellos sauce I'd love to try to make it at home /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif


Hi,

best to go to an Italian Specialty store and get a 28oz can of Crushed Tomatoes in Extra Heavy Tomato Puree and 28oz can of something like Full Red

1 28 oz can of Crushed Tomatoes in Extra Heavy Tomato Puree

1 28 oz can of Full Red

10 tbsp Sugar

2 tbsp Salt

2 tsp Pepper

1 tsp Oregano

let it sit in the fridge. don't cook it. roll out dough thin, put on thick sauce, sprinkle on pecorino romano, then put on Low moisture whole milk mozzarella cheese to make it like Arrenellos

let me know how it works out

Spinnybobo


----------



## spinnybobo

stevel said:


> Spinnybobo--
> 
> Your recipe on page one is correct except for the kneading time. If you knead a Chicago deep dish crust for ten minutes, you will get bread, not the biscuit-like texture of the authentic deep dish pie. You need to mix for one minute and knead for no more than two minutes. Then let the dough rise a long time. At commissaries for Chicago pizza chains the dough sits in big piles, just oozing all that oil. A good ratio of flour to oil is 3 Tablespoons oil to 1 cup flour.


Hi Stevel

I think it is preference. I am sure it will work out with your method. I am just giving my experience. I noticed that I did get a light biscuit like texture when I needed it by hand for 8 minutes. When I needed it less, it did have a nice texture, but it had less body/strength for holding the ingredients. Bread is usually if you are kneading it twice after the first rise. At Gino's East, when I worked there for a day as a spy, They made the dough, poured it on the counter, we weighed it, rolled it, then oiled pan, and put in in the pan. We stacked it, then put it in the cooler for 3 days. I actually liked doing it this way, letting it rise in the pan with oil in it and instead of the cooler, let it rise for 24 hours room temp. It had a nice taste and better texture.

The oven I might add makes all the difference in the world. Making this at home and in a stone oven are 2 different worlds. I always wondered how it would be to make a stone box put on the inside of a regular oven simulating the same atmosphere as the bloggett ovens.

thanks

Spinnybobo


----------



## spinnybobo

lo574 said:


> Now if we could only recreate Sanfratellos and Aurelios sauces.............but that'd take up a whole new thread. *LOL* Thank you [ALL] for sharing. Bon Appetit!


Aurelios uses canola oil and lets it rise for a few days. They use Chellino Cheese mixed with Wisconsin Longhorn. You can go to an Italian specialty shop and buy Chellino Cheese. Make the crust using a regular pizza crust recipe except use canola oil and double the oil. Let it rise for 2 days in the fridge. Oil a flat pan (not a deep dish) or cook on stone. Spread out dough. To make it like Aurelios: Let's say try to make their Spinach. They use spaghetti sauce for that. Just go get some good thick sauce-----like Classico, or from a specialty shop. Use Chellino cheese----this is their secret. It should taste very much like their pizza.

When I worked there, I learned the sauce through reading the ingredients on the label, and then trying to guess the proportions. here is what I came up with:

Aurelios Sauce:

28 oz can of Tomato sauce with consistency of the sauce---maybe 6 in 1

1 tbsp Sugar

1/2 tbsp Salt

1/2 tsp pepper

1/4 tsp romano cheese

1/8 tsp garlic powder

1/16 tsp oregano

Sanfratellos is a very light simple sauce. MOstly good quality tomoatoes with basic stuff like salt, pepper, sugar,

Their cook told me the recipe. They use same sauce for deep dish or thin crust. They just water down sauce for deep dish

This is for Thin crust:

Sanfratellos Sauce:

1 28oz Can Extra Heavy Tomato Puree

1 tbsp Sugar

1/2 tbsp Salt

1/2 tsp pepper

For Deep Dish:

add 2 cups of water

Both Sanfratellos and Aurelios both use Chellino Cheese made in Joliet, IL

This cheese makes the pizza. Without it, it wont taste the same

Spinnybobo


----------



## spinnybobo

SueK said:


> Hi Miloman,
> 
> I would love to try your Ginos East pizza recipe! How do you make it?
> 
> Many thanks!
> 
> Sue


Hi SueK

did you try mine posted earlier? It is about as authentic as you can get

Spinnybobo


----------



## spinnybobo

HomeMadeCook said:


> I'm really getting curious with the crust. Does anyone now had made it perfectly?


Hi HomeMadeCook,

mine is perfect. posted earlier. try it out

Spinnybobo


----------



## spinnybobo

MuskyHopeful said:


> I made a deep dish pizza last night from a recipe I learned from Pizzamaking.com. It is supposedly quite close to the Lou Malnati's crust. Like the last poster pointed out, it has high oil to flour ratio. This recipe was 23%. The crust, however came out light and crunchy, but not greasy. It was darn good if I say so myself. It was also my first try, so I'm extra happy about it. I'm going to IL this weekend and am planning to eat at Lou's, then I'll know how I did with the crust.
> 
> I was so proud I took pictures.
> 
> Kevin
> 
> I like Muskies.


Looks awesome. Great job

Spinnybobo


----------



## spinnybobo

nofifi said:


> Oh thank you, thank you, I've tried to duplicate that crust for years!!! I used saffron for the yellow flavor all these years in my pizza dough but it gets costly. Thanks again for the recipe!!!!!


haha. thanks Nofifi

I got frusterated also. lots of people helped it just took a long time and a lot of experimenting. glad it worked out for ya.

Spinnybobo


----------



## spinnybobo

Smilie said:


> I recently found out that Wikipedia has a page for "Chicago Style Pizza". I don't know who is editing the content on it but it needs some help.
> 
> There are some things on there that are right on but other statements make you wonder if the editors are from Chicago or if they have ever tried the various pizzas in Chicagoland.
> 
> A few people here could really make some improvements to the page to make it more accurate. I would do it but you guys really know your stuff ... So go and set the record straight!
> 
> BTW I made my version of Lou's after reading this thread and getting the craving. Most of the recipes listed here are basically what I do. I use 2 parts water to 1 part canola oil and real butter combo. And I use 3 parts flour to 1 part semolina. The sauce is basically whole peeled tomatoes (packed in puree) that is handcrushed and sprinkled with grated parmesan.
> 
> Also someone asked about using or adapting this dough for thin crust pizza but IMHO this is not right. These recipes are best for pan pizza. Thin crust calls for a less flaky and more chewy dough. Except for very thin crust which should be cracker-like.


Hey Smilie,

sounds like you did a great job. For the tomatoes, try going to an Italian specialty shop and getting Stanislaus SAPORITO[emoji]174[/emoji] FILETTO DI POMODORO[emoji]8482[/emoji]

http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/products/real-italian-products/from-scratch-products#Saporito

It is already mixed with the basil which gives it that flavor. I would change the oil from canola to a mixture of Olive and Corn, then 1/2 butter

Don't forget to oil the pan.

that should work out well

take care

Spinnybobo


----------



## spinnybobo

stevel said:


> You don't want to use bread flour, as true Chicago deep dish depends on a biscuit-like crust. Use AP.
> 
> Through many hours of experimentation, I found that the correct ratio of oil to flour is 3 TBS (not tsp) oil: 1 cup flour. Then a very short knead (1-2 minutes).
> 
> Uno's uses pastry flour and crushed whole tomatoes. Malnati's uses crushed tomatoes as well. Giordano's uses 6-in1 tomatoes and Stella cheese. Gino's East uses EVOO in their crust and crushed whole tomatoes (and, I believe, cream of tartar).
> 
> The golden color of Chicago deep dish pizza comes from a food coloring called "egg shade". The cornmeal myth seems to stem from a recipe published years ago by Jeff Smith, which isn't even close to how authentic Chicago deep dish is made, but which has been promulgated widely on the Internet.


sounds good Stevel.

don't think I tried regular AP flour. I know I tried pastry and it did make it heavier. How did you find out about pastry?

sounds like everything else is right on target. The other myth was Pat Bruno using cornmeal also which of course makes the pizza crust very bitter


----------



## spinnybobo

lberns1 said:


> Here is my shot at it using Spinny'bobos recipe and Caputo Tipo '00' flour:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coming from Detroit, I only have Detroit style pans similar to what is used by Buddy's Pizza. I think it turned out well. I'll have to let it cook a little longer next time. I made a Spinach/Mushroom/Feta as well.


Hi Iberns1

awesome job

take care

Spinnybobo


----------



## frabotta

How long does the dough need to set before cooking?  Do you let the dough rise in the pan first and then form it into the pan?  Also, do they use cream de tartar?  I spoke to the manager at Ginos a few months ago and he said that they use malted barley flower and whole wheat flower--do you know the other ingredients?  Also, thanks for the prevouis information!


----------



## spinnybobo

heyfrabotta

after kneading the dough, I would let it set out 24 hours at room temp, or for 3 days in fridge.

They use a package called flavor enhancer that turns the crust yellow and also adds creme of tartar----it gets added to the dough when it is made.

Most managers are instructed to not tell you the ingredients. Try to make it with those flowers and you will notice it does not taste the same. This is why no matter how much cornmeal you add to the crust, it does not make it taste like it. It is because they don't use cornmeal----common misconception.

It is no secret by now that you can go to the store and read the nutrition label on Gino's East frozen pizza and it will be a generally the same. Most pizza places use high gluten flower -----bread flower.

take care

Spencer


----------



## petemccracken

I presume you mean bread *flour*, correct?


spinnybobo said:


> heyfrabotta
> ...bread flower...


----------



## frabotta

Thank you for the information--aweswome--yes i did mean bread flour!!!--Too much wine when writing to you--sorry!!


----------



## frabotta

You're funny too!!


----------



## frabotta

Hi Spencer,

Where do you buy the flavor enhancer with the creme de tartar?  Do you have to use fresh bakers yeast or can i use dry?

Elyce


----------



## spinnybobo

frabotta said:


> Hi Spencer,
> 
> Where do you buy the flavor enhancer with the creme de tartar? Do you have to use fresh bakers yeast or can i use dry?
> 
> Elyce


Hi Elyce
The flavor enhancer was made by a company called Saratoga and was used at Gino's 
For home use, just follow my recipe I posted earlier.
I already did all of the proportions and everything is the same ratios
Of what Gino's east uses.
yes u do use creamed of Tartar and active dry yeast.
I posted it toward the beginning of the thread. A lot of hard work and research went into it. 
It is "the recipe" for Gino crust. Nothing comes closer. And yes I can be confident on this because I know how much work went into it
And I already tried everything else

Enjoy
Spencer


----------



## lukas dinatello

This looks completely wrong.  It looks like you tried to make a pizza dough cake and topped it like a lasagna .  Your crust looks a deep fried Empanada.. sorry but your pizza his is not correct.

Butter is  one of the the secrets...another is the pan.  Work on the dough by itself before adding any toppings next time.


----------



## margcata

Interesting Post ...

Being Italian on the paternal side, and my Nonna was a Trattoria Chef and Co-owner, I am always interested in Italy and Italian regional cuisines, recipes and how to´s ...

Sheer reading pleasure,

Thanks.

Marge.


----------



## spinnybobo

Lukas Dinatello said:


> This looks completely wrong. It looks like you tried to make a pizza dough cake and topped it like a lasagna . Your crust looks a deep fried Empanada.. sorry but your pizza his is not correct.
> 
> Butter is one of the the secrets...another is the pan. Work on the dough by itself before adding any toppings next time.


Hi Lukas,

who exactly are you directing your comments to? Are you familiar with deep dish pizza because not sure what you mean about lasagna, but if it is the cheese slices you are talking about on top of the dough, then that is how it is done. I would suggest if you are going to say that something is incorrect, first contribute why, and second contribute what you would do different.

thanks

Spencer


----------



## syifani arifun

Hi guys,

I just read a blog where the author claims to have finally figured out the recipe for Giordano's deep dish pizza. I know this discussion is about Gino's East, but he said something in the blog that really intrigued me and I wanted to confirm it with you guys. He said I should cover the edges/crust part with foil to prevent it from burning. Wouldn't doing that result in the total opposite, which is burned crust? :S


----------



## spinnybobo

Syifani Arifun said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I just read a blog where the author claims to have finally figured out the recipe for Giordano's deep dish pizza. I know this discussion is about Gino's East, but he said something in the blog that really intrigued me and I wanted to confirm it with you guys. He said I should cover the edges/crust part with foil to prevent it from burning. Wouldn't doing that result in the total opposite, which is burned crust? :S


Hey Syifani

sure pizza is pizza so its all good with me  not sure what you mean by covering the edge of the crust with foil. I mean, I know what you mean, but specifically not sure if you mean to just cover the edge or cover the entire top of the pizza. I worked at a place before that did stuffed pizzas and since they are so thick, we would take a piece of foil and kind of crumple it a little and then cover the pizza during the last 10 minutes of cooking to force the bottom of the pie to cook more --- especially if there was sausage at the bottom because in a stuffed pizza, sausage is usually put on top of the bottom dough raw.

but it was not to stop the top from burning as much as it was to make the bottom cook more.

hope this helps

Spencer


----------



## stewkelly

Yikes, yellow food coloring or tumeric to pizza dough? I use a good quality olive oil and do add some corn flour like you guys and enjoy it that way.


----------



## red1

Nice Blog. Thanks for the recipes


----------



## olyavera

Hello,

could you please let me know more about Gino's pizza? I adore pizzas and so far my favourite one is the authentic italian pizza with mozarella and tomatoes, you could check the process of making it at


----------



## paul l

Hard to get good Chicago pizza in Seattle. I make my own with Pastorelli sauce and whole milk mozzarella. I'm still experimenting with the dough and adding other types of cheese.


----------



## spinnybobo

Syifani Arifun said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I just read a blog where the author claims to have finally figured out the recipe for Giordano's deep dish pizza. I know this discussion is about Gino's East, but he said something in the blog that really intrigued me and I wanted to confirm it with you guys. He said I should cover the edges/crust part with foil to prevent it from burning. Wouldn't doing that result in the total opposite, which is burned crust? :S


Hey Syfani,

which book did you read out of curiosity? Is Giordano's your favorite?

thanks

Spencer


----------



## spinnybobo

olyavera said:


> Hello,
> 
> could you please let me know more about Gino's pizza? I adore pizzas and so far my favourite one is the authentic italian pizza with mozarella and tomatoes, you could check the process of making it at


yeah that looks like great pizza. those hot burning ovens usually powered by wood or coal give a really cool flavor.

yeah you can look through the blog and get the Gino's crust recipe and cook it just like in this video and it will taste totally different but just as awesome


----------



## spinnybobo

stewkelly said:


> Yikes, yellow food coloring or tumeric to pizza dough? I use a good quality olive oil and do add some corn flour like you guys and enjoy it that way.


hey, I agree turmeric would probably add a very different flavor ---- so would not recommend that, but it is true that Gino's is the only Chicago Deep Dish pizza

that uses Yellow Dye and does not use Corn Meal. The only one in Chicago that uses Corn Meal is Gino's on Rush which is totally different than Gino's East.

Never tried corn flour --- perhaps that is not as bitter as corn meal ---- but all the books say corn meal and using more than 1 tbspn to 1 lbs of Flour results in a bitter crust.

However, it can add some dimension to the crust.

yeah Gino's, Uno's and Lou Malnatis crust is basically whatever the amount of water you use, use 1/2 that in oil mixture (usually 95% corn and 5% extra virgin olive) or sometimes (80% corn and 20% extra virgin olive) or in Lou's case it adds some butter. Then you have to let it rise overnight so it has a fermented flavor. Then use a lot of oil in the pan making sure to not use a lot of dough on the bottom. Uno's I believe adds the most oil the 1: 1/2 water to oil ratio where Gino's adds a little less --- 1 : 1/3 water to oil ratio.


----------



## spinnybobo

Not sure if anybody ever tried this, but once I got the Gino's pizza recipe down and knew it like the back of my hand, the next part of the equation was having a good oven.  No matter what, the home oven does not even compare to a professional Bakers Pride or Bloggett stone deck oven.  

I never tried this and don't have the time now, but I know the basic concept of those professional ovens are simple ---- an insulated metal box that is surrounded by stone on the door, floor, ceiling, and sides.  

Therefore, theoretically, all you need is a box with heat and just create an "oven within an oven"

In other words, if you can find a pizza stone and buy them big enough, I believe it is possible to have them cut and just stack them inside the oven.  

First lay down the floor, then the side walls and back walls ---- no adhesive necessary and you would not want to.

just stack them.  Then lay down the top.  

so you create a "stone box" inside of your oven.  Then you can create a door to just put in front.  make sure you pizza peel can fit inside.  

you have to heat the oven to like 475 to 500 F and let it take about an hour.  Then use a thermometer to calibrate it.

I think that the pizza will taste like a pizza that comes out of a professional oven.  Using this Ginos recipe I provided on this thread which actually took a few years of my life to figure out ---- everyone here has it for free   and this "stone box" inside your oven idea ---- I believe it is possible to create it to taste actually better.  Let's face it now Gino's uses a mixture of conveyer oven as well as stone ovens.  The stone ovens are much better.  Uno's and Lou Malnatis uses stone ovens

just giving another idea I think would work well.  

I remember when we were putting pizzas in a restaurant my dad owned at the time and we made a Gino's pizza using my recipe and the professional oven.  It was literally 100 times better than what I made at home in my Gas Oven which still goes to 550 if I want.

It is the distribution of heat is uneven.  so I believe that this idea keeps the heat even and therefore makes it right.  Just an idea if anybody has some time and enthusiasm


----------



## gentleman

Paul L said:


> Hard to get good Chicago pizza in Seattle. I make my own with Pastorelli sauce and whole milk mozzarella. I'm still experimenting with the dough and adding other types of cheese.


----------



## stewkelly

@Spinnybobo, Thanks for the tip about letting it rest overnight to ferment a bit. Is that in the refrigerator or just a cool place? I find the corn flour makes the dough a bit lighter....but I think corn meal on the bottom of the dough will help prevent sticking to the stone.


----------



## colleens

Born and raised in Chicago - have been here 42 years. I love Gino's East pizza crust. It tastes lighter and more airy than Giordano's or Lou Malnati's. Giordano's is more like a biscuit crust.  But I prefer Giordano's crust.  We're off to try Burt's Place Saturday night. Supposedly tastes like Pequod's with a caramelized crust.


----------



## spinnybobo

stewkelly said:


> @Spinnybobo, Thanks for the tip about letting it rest overnight to ferment a bit. Is that in the refrigerator or just a cool place? I find the corn flour makes the dough a bit lighter....but I think corn meal on the bottom of the dough will help prevent sticking to the stone.


Hey stewkelly

you can let it ferment on kitchen counter overnight or let it ferment in fridge for a few days. Gino's ferments it in the fridge for 3 days already pressed into the pan with 1 layer of cheese on top. when they get an order, they put the other layer of cheese on top, sauce, then throw it in the oven.

Yes corn meal on the outside of a thin crust pizza that is cooked directly on the stone gives an amazing flavor. In a deep dish pan, there is so much oil in the dough and pan that it is almost fried.


----------



## spinnybobo

ColleenS said:


> Born and raised in Chicago - have been here 42 years. I love Gino's East pizza crust. It tastes lighter and more airy than Giordano's or Lou Malnati's. Giordano's is more like a biscuit crust. But I prefer Giordano's crust. We're off to try Burt's Place Saturday night. Supposedly tastes like Pequod's with a caramelized crust.


hey ColleenS

yeah Pizzeria Uno has that carmelized effect. Pretty cool. When you have a super hot evenly distributed pizza oven, it is actually making the pizza kinda "sloppy" which gives it that effect. That gives it the Chicago look because it has a very "non perfect" type of construction. It is just put together really fast. The dough on the sides is squished to make it look like a pie crust. It is not evenly done. The cheese kinda overruns and burns which I believe causes the carmelized effect. very cool the first time I was able to do this, but only worked in a real pizza oven. I don't care if the home oven can go to 550F, it just won't turn out the same.

I never tried Pequod's Pizza but I saw some pics and they look great. Kinda looks like Uno's. except crust looks a little less high on edges like Lou's. very cool stuff. Let us know how it was.


----------



## colleens

@ Spinnybobo

Burt's was very good - got the mushroom and double sausage.  The depth of the pizza was not as deep as I had expected.  I did enjoy and like the crust. We all agreed the sauce was really good. I did think the cheese was put on more sparsely than prefer.  Burt lives up to his TV persona coming off kind of gruff. 

I agree the cheese must be what caramelizes the crust. So good.

Have you tried Chicago Pizza and Oven Grinder's pizzas?  They look like a mushroom  shape or a pot pie when brought to your table as they are baked upside down in round casserole dishes.  The cheese oozes out when the server unveils it by flipping them out onto your plate at the table.  Very good, but definitely not pizza - more like a twist on a calzone.


----------



## steve tphc

[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument></xml><![endif][if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles></xml><![endif][if !mso]><![endif][if gte mso 10]><![endif]

I am in favor of Pizza from Rome Italy. It is made with a sour dough starter and special flour which includes Italian 000 (2/3) and classic European artisan bread flour (1/3) that has some ash and is made from *winter wheat*. Also necessary are sea salt and a little olive oil. If the flour is not right, the crust will never be great. See King Arthur for these flours.

My bread starter is fermented until the lactic acid makes is smell sour, which involves feeding it over a minimum of three days (room temperature), or longer if your yeast is not the instant variety.

King Arthur has an excellent pizza blend as well as a flavor enhancer that enriches the doughs flavor.

I let the mixed dough mature a whole day or more in the refrigerator, then rise again at room temperature until it doubles its size. This also improves the nutrition of the crust.

The pizza is best in a very hot wood fired pizza oven. I use my BBQ grill equiped with a ceramatic floor tile and a wood smoke box at 600~650 F.

degrees. A thin crust pizz cooks in 6 minutes or less.


----------



## spinnybobo

ColleenS said:


> @ Spinnybobo
> 
> Burt's was very good - got the mushroom and double sausage. The depth of the pizza was not as deep as I had expected. I did enjoy and like the crust. We all agreed the sauce was really good. I did think the cheese was put on more sparsely than prefer. Burt lives up to his TV persona coming off kind of gruff.
> 
> I agree the cheese must be what caramelizes the crust. So good.
> 
> Have you tried Chicago Pizza and Oven Grinder's pizzas? They look like a mushroom shape or a pot pie when brought to your table as they are baked upside down in round casserole dishes. The cheese oozes out when the server unveils it by flipping them out onto your plate at the table. Very good, but definitely not pizza - more like a twist on a calzone.


Hey Colleen.

no never tried Over Grinder's but I heard of it. sounds great


----------



## spinnybobo

Steve TPHC said:


> [if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument></xml><![endif][if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles></xml><![endif][if !mso]><![endif][if gte mso 10]><![endif]
> 
> I am in favor of Pizza from Rome Italy. It is made with a sour dough starter and special flour which includes Italian 000 (2/3) and classic European artisan bread flour (1/3) that has some ash and is made from *winter wheat*. Also necessary are sea salt and a little olive oil. If the flour is not right, the crust will never be great. See King Arthur for these flours.
> 
> My bread starter is fermented until the lactic acid makes is smell sour, which involves feeding it over a minimum of three days (room temperature), or longer if your yeast is not the instant variety.
> 
> King Arthur has an excellent pizza blend as well as a flavor enhancer that enriches the doughs flavor.
> 
> I let the mixed dough mature a whole day or more in the refrigerator, then rise again at room temperature until it doubles its size. This also improves the nutrition of the crust.
> 
> The pizza is best in a very hot wood fired pizza oven. I use my BBQ grill equiped with a ceramatic floor tile and a wood smoke box at 600~650 F.
> 
> degrees. A thin crust pizz cooks in 6 minutes or less. For more see my blog on [if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument></xml><![endif][if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles></xml><![endif][if gte mso 10]><![endif]
> 
> Pizza Dough and Baking Pizza on your Grill (6-2011)


Hey Steve

this sounds amazing. I tried to hit the link for your blog but it says I do not have access. Do you have it on a private setting?

sounds great though. I always wanted to learn how to make more of a thin crust Italian wood or coal oven type deal.

thanks

Spencer


----------



## sunny cooks

I worked as a waitress just out of college in 1980 at the old Genos location on Superior. The cook was named Joe who took pity on a poor starving girl and always had a staff meal for me when I arrived for a 10 hour shift. One day he invited me to watch him make dough. The secret to Ginos crust is or was, a yellow food coloring made from eggs. He put in a big squirt for each batch of dough. No corn meal was ever used in the crust, ever! The food coloring is responsible for the yellow color and the egg base creates the unique texture.

The dough was never refrigerated, it was made fresh throughout the day. It would sit in a big tub for an hour or so and then a cook would portion it into the pans that had tons of olive oil in them. Then they were stacked and waited for orders. They could sit for a couple of hours like that without any change in the texture of the crust. So finally, mystery solved.

I get a very close version of the Ginos crust by throwing a large egg yolk into my dough mix after adding the liquid.


----------



## cookandeat

Syifani Arifun said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I just read a blog where the author claims to have finally figured out the recipe for Giordano's deep dish pizza. I know this discussion is about Gino's East, but he said something in the blog that really intrigued me and I wanted to confirm it with you guys. He said I should cover the edges/crust part with foil to prevent it from burning. Wouldn't doing that result in the total opposite, which is burned crust? :S


For those of you who want to clone a Giordano's stuffed pizza this is probably as close as you can get.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,30449.0.html


----------



## randy jackson

I do believe that the yellow color in the pizza dough is achieved by using 25% seminola flour which seems to resemble cornmeal but its finer.


----------



## jdmvp05

spinnybobo said:


> Not sure if anybody ever tried this, but once I got the Gino's pizza recipe down and knew it like the back of my hand, the next part of the equation was having a good oven. No matter what, the home oven does not even compare to a professional Bakers Pride or Bloggett stone deck oven.
> 
> I never tried this and don't have the time now, but I know the basic concept of those professional ovens are simple ---- an insulated metal box that is surrounded by stone on the door, floor, ceiling, and sides.
> 
> Therefore, theoretically, all you need is a box with heat and just create an "oven within an oven"
> 
> In other words, if you can find a pizza stone and buy them big enough, I believe it is possible to have them cut and just stack them inside the oven.
> 
> First lay down the floor, then the side walls and back walls ---- no adhesive necessary and you would not want to.
> 
> just stack them. Then lay down the top.
> 
> so you create a "stone box" inside of your oven. Then you can create a door to just put in front. make sure you pizza peel can fit inside.
> 
> you have to heat the oven to like 475 to 500 F and let it take about an hour. Then use a thermometer to calibrate it.
> 
> I think that the pizza will taste like a pizza that comes out of a professional oven. Using this Ginos recipe I provided on this thread which actually took a few years of my life to figure out ---- everyone here has it for free  and this "stone box" inside your oven idea ---- I believe it is possible to create it to taste actually better. Let's face it now Gino's uses a mixture of conveyer oven as well as stone ovens. The stone ovens are much better. Uno's and Lou Malnatis uses stone ovens
> 
> just giving another idea I think would work well.
> 
> I remember when we were putting pizzas in a restaurant my dad owned at the time and we made a Gino's pizza using my recipe and the professional oven. It was literally 100 times better than what I made at home in my Gas Oven which still goes to 550 if I want.
> 
> It is the distribution of heat is uneven. so I believe that this idea keeps the heat even and therefore makes it right. Just an idea if anybody has some time and enthusiasm


Spinnybobo,

If I used this Bakerstone oven box (



), would I have the same effect? If so what heating directions would you suggest, the temperature goes up to 800 degrees so I'm not sure how that would work if I wanted to do a deep dish. I was also wondering if you ever created those instructional videos like you mentioned earlier in this thread. Your Gino's East crust was made to perfection and I am really interested in making a Lou Malnati's! Thank you SO much for your dedication, looking forward to hearing from you!


----------



## spinnybobo

Hey Jdmvp05

actually that oven looks really great. Looking at that oven it is amazing how I had a idea similar to that except mine would be in the oven rather than on top of the burners, and then somebody else has basically the same idea with a few differences and develops it into something amazing  So cool 

I would really think something like that would be interesting to try out. I would say if the temp is going up to 800 F, it is because he has it on top of a grill which is pretty hot. Also, he looks like he is cooking a "brick oven" type pizza.

You want the temp to be around 475 F but make sure that it is calibrated to an actual oven thermometer. If you don't get the desired results, then you can modify the temp hotter. You can try it at 800 and see what happens. A lot of this whole process is just trying, see what happens and either go with it, or go a different path.

No I did not get to making those videos yet. I am getting some practice though. Here is a video just having fun making vegan pie crust






Yeah Lou Malnatis is great.

good luck and let me know if you get that oven how it works out

Spencer


----------



## paul rodriguez

What is the recipe for aurelio's pizza? What are all the ingredients, even what kind of cheese. I live in wa state and our pizza here is lame. I miss chicago pizza!


----------



## Iceman

??? ... OK. You miss _"Chicago"_ ... and you want _"Aurelio's"_?

I think you need to turn in your "Pizza Card".​


----------



## paul rodriguez

If i am asking for the recipe, isn't it obvious??? lol


----------



## Iceman

_[ I think you need to turn in your "Pizza Card". ]_

Nobody missing or jonesing for *"CHICAGO PIZZA"* wants _Aurelio's_.

*just for reference continuity:*

*Burly Detective*: _What do ya think, ... Huh? Don't tell me this [stuff's] gettin' to ya. Not Harry Callahan. Say it ain't so._
*Harry Callahan*: _No, this stuff isn't gettin' to me. ... that doesn't bother me a bit._
*Burly Detective*: _Come on, Harry. Take it easy._
*Harry Callahan*: _Or this job, either. ... Nah, that doesn't bother me. But you know what does bother me?_
*Burly Detective*: What?
*Harry Callahan*: _You know what makes me really sick to my stomach?_
*Burly Detective*: _What?_
*Harry Callahan*: _Is watching you stuff your face with those hot dogs. *Nobody, I mean NOBODY puts ketchup on a hot dog.*_

Same thing. *CHICAGO PIZZA* *ain'te* _Aurelio's_.


----------



## humble chef

Gino's is overrated , the art of pizza is better. I'm sure at one time Gino's was good but now it's fallen off with its success


----------



## irish204

Thank you!  I have been trying to figure out Arrenello's pizza sauce for years.  I was sure it was made with sweet red peppers...which goes to show how much I know.

In the 70s there was Riverdale Pizza with a sweet sauce.  Unfortunately, that recipe is gone.


----------



## 99miles

Hey guys, this is awesome!

I tried the recipe posted by spinnybobo. It was 'almost' amazing -- so close. But for some reason by crust on the bottom wasn't crispy at all, was really quite soft and a little mushy. And the sauce was pretty runny, until I let the pie sit and cool for a bit. Maybe that latter part is expected. 

Any thoughts? Should I simply have cooked it longer, ya think?
 

Thanks! Excited to try again.


----------



## spinnybobo

Paul Rodriguez said:


> If i am asking for the recipe, isn't it obvious??? lol


didn't I post aurelio's already?


----------



## spinnybobo

99miles said:


> Hey guys, this is awesome!
> 
> I tried the recipe posted by spinnybobo. It was 'almost' amazing -- so close. But for some reason by crust on the bottom wasn't crispy at all, was really quite soft and a little mushy. And the sauce was pretty runny, until I let the pie sit and cool for a bit. Maybe that latter part is expected.
> 
> Any thoughts? Should I simply have cooked it longer, ya think?
> 
> Thanks! Excited to try again.


hey 99miles

so which pizza were you cooking? The deep dish or thin crust?

if it was the deep dish did you have a tin steel pan that was properly seasoned and bake it in an oven calibrated to like 475 F using a thermometer?

How thick was the crust and did you use oil to coat the pan?

please describe what you did and I can guide you to make it better

thanks

Spencer ,


----------



## mike9

I've been using Detroit style pizza lately and I double cook my crust.  I let the dough rise then roll it out and put it in the greased pan and let it rise in a warm spot.  Then I bake it for 5-8 minutes to set it then build my pie.  The dough is airy, light and above all crunchy even cold out of the ice box the next day.  I make my sauce with fresh cherry, or grape tomatoes, but soon it will be San Marzano from the garden.


----------



## 99miles

spinnybobo said:


> hey 99miles
> 
> so which pizza were you cooking? The deep dish or thin crust?
> 
> if it was the deep dish did you have a tin steel pan that was properly seasoned and bake it in an oven calibrated to like 475 F using a thermometer?
> 
> How thick was the crust and did you use oil to coat the pan?
> 
> please describe what you did and I can guide you to make it better
> 
> thanks
> 
> Spencer ,


Thanks for the response, Spencer.

It was making the deep dish, and yes, I even got the PSTK pan from pizzatools.com as suggested. Honestly though, it was a few weeks ago and I don't recall all the details, I just remember trying to follow your directions as closely as I could. I should just try again, and if I still have questions I'll ask when the exact details are more fresh in my mind. But, I have not calibrated my range. It's a nice Viking though, so I'd like to think it's pretty close. I'll get a thermometer though to check it -- that's a good idea. I also used a different canned sauce than the one you suggested, just cause I couldn't find it in time and I was anxious to make it . I'll try this week and report back.

Thanks again!


----------



## kokopuffs

dancer said:


> ...........
> Shopping list:
> 
> 12" deep dish pizza pan (I prefer black)
> 1.........


Where do I get THE ultimate pizza pan for deep dish??????


----------



## Iceman

*Chicago Metallic[emoji]8482[/emoji] 14-Inch Nonstick Deep Dish Pizza Pan*
_Enjoy the delicious taste of deep-dish pizza with this professional grade quality Chicago Metallic Deep Dish Pizza Pan. Perfect for making authentic, Chicago-style deep dish pizza and the lifetime Resist[emoji]8482[/emoji] nonstick surface makes for easy cleaning._ . _*$14.99*_ 
*(This is just the first decent example I saw. You can most certainly find cheaper just as good pans.)*

There is NO real _"ultimate pizza pan for deep dish"_. As long as it's not a cheap piece of junk. Part of the trick is wiping the pan with good old-fashioned lard first. Also, a good temperature-keeping is nice. You should figure out if you need to cook your pizza in steps or a 1-time shot. We cooked differently for _"pan"_ vs _"stuffed"_. Two(2) completely different items.


----------



## spinnybobo

Hello everybody

I have not tried these but I know they have to be Tin steel and then washed and seasoned really good

So far this one looks good

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/17337/regular-tin-plated-steel-deep-dish-pizza-pans.html

Please if you are going to season it in a high saturated fat Do Not Use Lard! You can never use the pan to cook for anybody who is vegetarian or vegan because the pan is coated with all of those animal fats.

If you want to use an oil to season pans that is similar then use coconut oil

here is a link on how to season it using coconut oil, but this is for a cast iron pan, but I am sure it works for anything






The people at webstaurantstore.com do give a video on how to season it

You can experiement

Spencer


----------



## spinnybobo

Hey 99miles

yeah keep me posted

Spencer


----------



## steve tphc

I am surprised that there is little to no discussion of the star ingredient which is the flour. Magic would have to be involved to make poor ingriedients turn out number one results.


----------



## Guest

Interesting discussion about pizza. Has anyone here even did a no yeast pizza? Interested to know what type of pizzas are preferred! I am in Europe and we have different tastes.


----------



## Guest

I love your deep pan pizza video....well done


----------



## flipflopgirl

IceMan said:


> wiping the pan with good old-fashioned lard first.





spinnybobo said:


> Do Not Use Lard!


Two Chicago boys.......

Two pizza pans............

mimi


----------



## flipflopgirl

MTcook said:


> Has anyone here even did a no yeast pizza?


Sacrilege .

mimi


----------



## kokopuffs

*Paderno blue steel pans* rule.


----------



## mike9

I use a blue steel pan for pizza and it's wonderful.  I haven't made a round pie in a long time now, but I get a jones for one baked on corn meal on a stone once in a while.


----------



## pizzafan

Spinybobo: When you say, "let it rise over night, do you mean at room temperature? How long roughly? Can it be refrigerated for later use? How long of a "first rise" time wise, if the deep dish pizza dough is to ultimately be refrigerated? Do you have any idea how much "dough weight" goes in the pan (10" or 12" pizza)? If I use a counter-top Kitchen Aid mixer how long should dough be mixed and at what speed? Thanks a million!


----------



## spinnybobo

PizzaFan said:


> Spinybobo: When you say, "let it rise over night, do you mean at room temperature? How long roughly? Can it be refrigerated for later use? How long of a "first rise" time wise, if the deep dish pizza dough is to ultimately be refrigerated? Do you have any idea how much "dough weight" goes in the pan (10" or 12" pizza)? If I use a counter-top Kitchen Aid mixer how long should dough be mixed and at what speed? Thanks a million!


Spinybobo: When you say, "let it rise over night, do you mean at room temperature?

YES I usually leave it out. Gino's East puts it in the refrigerator for 3 days (pre oiled pan, stretched out and pressed into pan with one layer of cheese slices)

How long roughly?

I usually do around 24 hours

Can it be refrigerated for later use?

Yes it can be refrigereated for later use. It is up to you how much of a strong beer or wine taste you want from the crust.

How long of a "first rise" time wise, if the deep dish pizza dough is to ultimately be refrigerated?

I don't let it rise more than once. I think when you say "first rise" you are referring to normal bread making when you let it rise once, then kneed it, then let it rise again? For deep dish, you don't have to kneed it twice.

If I portion the dough and refrigerate for 3-days, how long should it warm up before use?

just enough for you to be able to easily stretch it by hand without a roller (deep dish pizza gets stretched by hand right in the pan)

Do you have any idea how much "dough weight" goes in the pan (10" or 12" pizza)?

I used to know this off the top of my head. It does help because I always ended up with too much dough. I will see if I wrote it down and post it later. The bottom of the pizza should be thing crust and only the sides should be thick.

If I use a counter-top Kitchen Aid mixer how long should dough be mixed and at what speed?

probably slow speed and less than 5 minutes I would think. I usually do 8 minutes by hand. You can feel it is firm and doesn't fall apart. Just make sure you don't add more flour if sticky. If sticky, add more oil. The oil should also be coated in the bowl for rising not flour.

Should we use whole milk or part-skim mozzarella, i.e. Chicago places: Uno's, Malnati's, Gino's, etc.? Thanks a million!

Most places use part skim, but some places use whole. it is really up to you. A really good one is by Chellino at Italian specialty shops and it is called something like Scamorza which is basically the same as Mozzarella. It is really expensive so probably better for thin crust pizza's. Aurelio's pizza is famous for using this cheese because it finishes in a distinctive way.


----------



## sidediva

Question: Regarding the dough, after the first rise the dough often springs back. Should I let it rest again at this point, does this slow down the possibility of springing back. Also, several different  oven temperatures have been listed please clarify....Thanks so much.


----------



## steve tphc

sidediva said:


> Question: Regarding the dough, after the first rise the dough often springs back. Should I let it rest again at this point, does this slow down the possibility of springing back. Also, several different oven temperatures have been listed please clarify....Thanks so much.


"Should I let it rest again at this point" Yes, it improves nutrition by punching down and letting it rise again. "Does this slow down the possibility of springing back" - no, spring back is dependent on the gluten content. Gluten content is what holds bubbles that allow the dough to rise and gives the crust its chew. All-purpose flour usually is about 8 - 11 percent gluten, the most significant protein in wheat flour.

Oven temperatures will vary according to the "thickness" of the thickest part of the crust. Pizza with a thin crust all around is cooked at high temperature and usually directly on a preheated stone surface. A sparse thin-crust pizza at 700 F will cook in 5 minutes or less. Thick crust pizza are cooked 350-375 F and require a significant more mount of time to cook especially if the bottom crust is thick and has gobs of water-bearing toppings. Thick crust pizza suffers a similar fate not unlike a turkey. The legs on a turkey are at the right temperature way before the bird is fully cooked. The same applies to the outside upper crust. By the time a deep-dish thick crust pizza has reached a proper temperature, the upper crust has exceeded its optimal temperature, which is 200~205 F


----------



## spinnybobo

sidediva said:


> Question: Regarding the dough, after the first rise the dough often springs back. Should I let it rest again at this point, does this slow down the possibility of springing back. Also, several different oven temperatures have been listed please clarify....Thanks so much.


hey just look at the thread I wrote user: "spinnybobo"

it lists everything to do.

as far as your questions: I only let it rise one time. I use bread flour. then temp is 475 F

make sure oven is calibrated to that temp using an oven temp gauge. meaning you might have to put your oven on a different temp to get to 475


----------



## sidediva

spinnybobo said:


> didn't I post aurelio's already?


&nbsp

Any comments on the pizza pans with the holes in the bottom?


----------



## kokopuffs

I use Paderno World Cuisine blue steel baking molds. That's Paderno World Cuisine and not just plain Paderno.


----------



## sidediva

Do you just oil the bottom of the dough or does additional oil go in the bottom of the pan?


----------



## kokopuffs

My dough is made with a combination of corn oil (15%), olive oil (3%), and some cream of tartar (up to .97%). And my blue steel baking pan is rubbed with some olive oil, too.

Here's a *dough calculator* for you to use.


----------



## sidediva

spinnybobo said:


> Great Job Dancer!!
> 
> Although, Ginos uses a TON of oil. You got the oils right. However, they use 95% corn and 5 % Extra Virgin Olive Oil. Do not use regular olive oil. Just buy some Corn oil and take out 5% by volume and add same amount of Extra Virgin Olive Oil.
> 
> Then, for every 1 cup of water, use 1/3 cup of oil. Also, you can use 1 Tablespoon of corn meal like you put in there, however, there other secret ingredient is about 1 tsp cream of tartar. Ginos does not use corn meal.
> 
> So,
> 
> 1 Cup water
> 1 package yeast
> 1/3 cup oil mixture
> 1 T sugar
> 1 tsp cream of tartar
> 1 lbs Bread Flour
> 
> In a bowl, put water (luke warm), then yeast, oil, cream of tartar, and sugar. Mix with hand until yeast dissolves. Then, pour in Bread Flour a little at a time. Mix with your hand. Just curve your hand like a dough hook and hold the bowl and mix. Then, knead it until it gets firm. Add more flour if needed. Secret is also in the kneading. Knead it for about 10 minutes straight. Then, roll it into a ball, and put it in a bowl with oil brushed in the sides. Cover with plastic wrap and a kitchen towel. let sit overnight unrefrigerated. Only let it rise once. Portion and use.
> 
> And, the kind of pan they use is a Tinned Steel pan that is seasoned. And, when you cook it, make sure you put oil in the pan also. Stretch it out in the pan and put a layer of cheese over it. Then, put it in the fridge for about a day. Then, take it out and put another layer of cheese, then sauce, then pecorino romano cheese and oregano.
> 
> I am sure your sauce taste great, but I would really go to Dominicks and try the Italian chef pastoreli pizza sauce. Dont add anything to it. Put it on pizza and then put a little romano cheese.
> 
> For thin crust pizza, if you like a sweet sauce, use prego right out of the can. But, that is truly Gino's recipe minus the corn meal.
> 
> I am only giving away my hard earned secret because you guys are all so passionate about this crust. So, use it and enjoy it because this is Ginos east recipe. ))))))))))
> 
> Good job Dancer


When you say "portion"....I have a 12 inch deep dish pan do you think your full recipe is too much for this? Just your thoughts. I went with your recipe regarding the amount of flour it is now sitting in my warming drawing for an overnight proof. Wish me luck


----------



## spinnybobo

sidediva said:


> When you say "portion"....I have a 12 inch deep dish pan do you think your full recipe is too much for this? Just your thoughts. I went with your recipe regarding the amount of flour it is now sitting in my warming drawing for an overnight proof. Wish me luck


hey yes that should work out fine. I believe it is 18 oz measured as weight per 12 " pan.

just make sure you DON"T use flour when you are kneading the dough as it will get sticky requiring more flour until you end up with a crust that is not as flaky.

Instead to make it not sticky, use OIL on your hands when kneading as well as a well oiled pan for the dough to sit in the warming station overnight

Then it should be really "airy" and "flaky"

If you want, you can even make it 1/2 cup of oil instead of 1/3 of a cup as some places like Pizzeria Uno's use a little more oil than Gino's East.

You can also play with the percentages of oil like: 80% corn and 20% extra virgin olive will be super rich as opposed to 95% corn and 5% extra virgin olive

however, keeping it as what I wrote above will give you a pizza exactly like Gino's minus it might taste a little different because the oven in a pizza place is much better

So make sure you calibrate your oven using an oven thermometer to 475 F since some ovens run cooler and some ovens run hotter.


----------



## sidediva

spinnybobo said:


> hey yes that should work out fine. I believe it is 18 oz measured as weight per 12 " pan.
> 
> just make sure you DON"T use flour when you are kneading the dough as it will get sticky requiring more flour until you end up with a crust that is not as flaky.
> 
> Instead to make it not sticky, use OIL on your hands when kneading as well as a well oiled pan for the dough to sit in the warming station overnight
> 
> Then it should be really "airy" and "flaky"
> 
> If you want, you can even make it 1/2 cup of oil instead of 1/3 of a cup as some places like Pizzeria Uno's use a little more oil than Gino's East.
> 
> You can also play with the percentages of oil like: 80% corn and 20% extra virgin olive will be super rich as opposed to 95% corn and 5% extra virgin olive
> 
> however, keeping it as what I wrote above will give you a pizza exactly like Gino's minus it might taste a little different because the oven in a pizza place is much better
> 
> So make sure you calibrate your oven using an oven thermometer to 475 F since some ovens run cooler and some ovens run hotter.


Thanks so much...why the corn oil? Is it because of the smoke point??


----------



## sidediva

spinnybobo said:


> hey yes that should work out fine. I believe it is 18 oz measured as weight per 12 " pan.
> 
> just make sure you DON"T use flour when you are kneading the dough as it will get sticky requiring more flour until you end up with a crust that is not as flaky.
> 
> Instead to make it not sticky, use OIL on your hands when kneading as well as a well oiled pan for the dough to sit in the warming station overnight
> 
> Then it should be really "airy" and "flaky"
> 
> If you want, you can even make it 1/2 cup of oil instead of 1/3 of a cup as some places like Pizzeria Uno's use a little more oil than Gino's East.
> 
> You can also play with the percentages of oil like: 80% corn and 20% extra virgin olive will be super rich as opposed to 95% corn and 5% extra virgin olive
> 
> however, keeping it as what I wrote above will give you a pizza exactly like Gino's minus it might taste a little different because the oven in a pizza place is much better
> 
> So make sure you calibrate your oven using an oven thermometer to 475 F since some ovens run cooler and some ovens run hotter.


One more thing ...how about using a cast iron skillet?


----------



## sidediva

17425012_10211444231928861_5440764582982523905_n.j




__
sidediva


__
Mar 27, 2017








Ok...I know it looks sad. Am trying to make a Chicago style pizza. Followed spinnybobo's recipe. Not Sure where I went wrong. I did allow the dough to rise for 24 hours as recommended. Looks like a fruit pie instead...Yikes. Should I have folded the excess dough back inside. BTW, never been to Chicago or had a Gino's style pizza so I was shooting from the hip...but I tried. Will do again sometime soon. I noticed some different temperatures listed throughout the thread, a friend mentioned my temp may have been too high as part of the problem. However, the taste was pretty good.  Ok...Let me have it ....


----------



## brianshaw

If it tasted good then you are more than halfway there!

I rarely make deep-dish (I'm quite prejudiced to thin crust) but when I have I prefer a straight-sided tin. Try that next.


----------



## spinnybobo

sidediva said:


> 17425012_10211444231928861_5440764582982523905_n.j
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> sidediva
> 
> 
> __
> Mar 27, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok...I know it looks sad. Am trying to make a Chicago style pizza. Followed spinnybobo's recipe. Not Sure where I went wrong. I did allow the dough to rise for 24 hours as recommended. Looks like a fruit pie instead...Yikes. Should I have folded the excess dough back inside. BTW, never been to Chicago or had a Gino's style pizza so I was shooting from the hip...but I tried. Will do again sometime soon. I noticed some different temperatures listed throughout the thread, a friend mentioned my temp may have been too high as part of the problem. However, the taste was pretty good.  Ok...Let me have it ....





sidediva said:


> 17425012_10211444231928861_5440764582982523905_n.j
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> sidediva
> 
> 
> __
> Mar 27, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok...I know it looks sad. Am trying to make a Chicago style pizza. Followed spinnybobo's recipe. Not Sure where I went wrong. I did allow the dough to rise for 24 hours as recommended. Looks like a fruit pie instead...Yikes. Should I have folded the excess dough back inside. BTW, never been to Chicago or had a Gino's style pizza so I was shooting from the hip...but I tried. Will do again sometime soon. I noticed some different temperatures listed throughout the thread, a friend mentioned my temp may have been too high as part of the problem. However, the taste was pretty good.  Ok...Let me have it ....





sidediva said:


> 17425012_10211444231928861_5440764582982523905_n.j
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> sidediva
> 
> 
> __
> Mar 27, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok...I know it looks sad. Am trying to make a Chicago style pizza. Followed spinnybobo's recipe. Not Sure where I went wrong. I did allow the dough to rise for 24 hours as recommended. Looks like a fruit pie instead...Yikes. Should I have folded the excess dough back inside. BTW, never been to Chicago or had a Gino's style pizza so I was shooting from the hip...but I tried. Will do again sometime soon. I noticed some different temperatures listed throughout the thread, a friend mentioned my temp may have been too high as part of the problem. However, the taste was pretty good.  Ok...Let me have it ....


hey sidediva

how did it taste ? looks like you did a good job. Well my recipe calls for everything to be done with a seasoned Tin Steel pan that is 2 inches deep. Did you use a cast iron skillet? If so, I don't know how that would affect things plus not sure what temp should be with that.

It does take practice to actually construct the pizza.

overall you are doing well.


----------



## steve tphc

I have been reading about an alarming quantity of oil going into some of these thick crust pizza doughs. Most dough recipes I have seen do not use 100% bread flour.

Most pizza recipes use little to no oil at all. King Arthur lists this recipe for their Chicago Style Pizza as follows:

· 4 cups King Arthur Unbleached All-Purpose Flour

· 3 tablespoons yellow cornmeal

· 1 3/4 teaspoons salt

· 2 3/4 teaspoons instant yeast

· 2 tablespoons olive oil

· 4 tablespoons butter, melted

· 2 tablespoons vegetable oil or salad oil

· 1 cup + 2 tablespoons lukewarm water

See http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/thick-and-light-pizza-crust-recipe

8 Tablespoons ( ½ cup) of oil is more than TWICE what anyone's recipe calls for if your using 4 cup or less of flour. I find 2 Tablespoon of oil plenty for about 3 ½ cups of flour. Olive oil improves the flavor and that is the reason I use oil.


----------



## phatch

This is a specific pizza recreation. And from the thread it should be clear that general pizza practice does not apply so much. So what is your point on the specific topic of this thread?


----------



## spinnybobo

Steve TPHC said:


> I have been reading about an alarming quantity of oil going into some of these thick crust pizza doughs. Most dough recipes I have seen do not use 100% bread flour.
> 
> Most pizza recipes use little to no oil at all. King Arthur lists this recipe for their Chicago Style Pizza as follows:
> 
> · 4 cups King Arthur Unbleached All-Purpose Flour
> 
> · 3 tablespoons yellow cornmeal
> 
> · 1 3/4 teaspoons salt
> 
> · 2 3/4 teaspoons instant yeast
> 
> · 2 tablespoons olive oil
> 
> · 4 tablespoons butter, melted
> 
> · 2 tablespoons vegetable oil or salad oil
> 
> · 1 cup + 2 tablespoons lukewarm water
> 
> See http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/thick-and-light-pizza-crust-recipe
> 
> 8 Tablespoons ( ½ cup) of oil is more than TWICE what anyone's recipe calls for if your using 4 cup or less of flour. I find 2 Tablespoon of oil plenty for about 3 ½ cups of flour. Olive oil improves the flavor and that is the reason I use oil.


hey Steve

yeah I agree that you need good flour 100% bread flour. As far as the oil, yes to make a general pizza or a new york style pizza, one does not need a lot of oil.

However, to make a Chicago Style deep dish, one needs 1/3 cup oil to 1 cup flour to make Gino's east, or 1/2 cup oil to 1 cup of water to make Pizzeria Uno's like it is downtown Chicago (not the chains).

so our purpose is to recreate those types of pizza's here which is why all of the excessive amounts of oil


----------



## Nuke83

Spinny,

Tried your recipe a couple of years back and I missed the mark. I'm giving it a try again this weekend. Bought a good tin pan from a going out of business pizza place, so it's solid and seasoned (hoping this will help). Made dough last night and it's rising in oven now. Later today I'll pan and cheese it and put it in fridge to sit until bake tomorrow.

I'm a huge grilling enthusiast (have 3 different grill-smokers) and plan to bake this on my green egg. Going after that brick oven/wood fired bake. I'll let you know how it turns out.

I'm a bit nervous of getting the dough in the pan correctly. I think that's where I went wrong last time. Any tips on that process are greatly appreciated.


----------



## Nuke83

So I have some questions for others following this thread and who have tried this or similar recipes. I made this last night and the flavor was excellent. My issue was texture. I have read throughout that there is disagreement on kneading time. Also a couple of different opinions on cook temperature.

My crust was way too hard along the bottom quarter inch. Perfect golden color, so not burned, but simply hard. The next half inch up of crust was too breadlike in appearance. Large bubbles, like in baked bread.

I kneaded mine 10 minutes. let sit covered in bowl in oven for 24 hours, then moved to a refrigerator for another 12 hours and removing to come to room temp before putting in pan to bake. I baked at 400 for 45 minutes.

So my questions are this. 

If I had mixed all ingredients gently, then kneaded for 2 minutes max as some suggest, would texture have been different
Was the hard crust a result of cooking at too high a temp, the kneading, or cooking too long?
Finally, has anyone else experienced similar results as mine and resolved? If so, would love to hear what you changed.


----------

