# Anthony Bourdain



## chefdee

Anthony Bourdain's book Kitchen Confidential is a great book and doesn't candy coat anything, tells it how it really is. I recommend this book to anyone and always do when someone asks me what a good culinary book is. I hate it when someone candy coats something that really shouldn't be and he doesn't dso that at all. Anthony i think that you did a job well done on the book and you went through a lot to get where you are now. Thank you for sharing your experiences with everyone. I wish you could come to my school and speak because my fellow students and I liek it when someone keeps it real. They would love to hear your stories and everything. Once again thnaks for the great book and can't wait till I can read the next one andsee the movie.


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## greg

Chefdee, get a hold of his new book, definitely! So good I went to work on not much sleep for a couple of days because I stayed up too late reading. Hopefully, he will go on another tour, once again "shamelessly flogging" the book. If so, he'd better come to the Twin Cities! I do kind of have a bone to pick with him, though, about a comment he made about my home state, Wisconsin! He almost always says good things about sous chefs and his job description for "executive chef" gave me ammo to pick on my chef, so it's really not that big a deal. I *would* like to show him what is really getting midwestern kids fat, though, and I believe he'd enjoy the education as it involves various pork and beef products to his apparent liking.


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## jill reichow

Greg, off topic, but I totally agree on the number of heavy young people in the Twin Cities. Born and raised in Mpls., but now living in DC. I was just home in November, and was distressed by the number of teens that I saw that were so heavy....of course I ate my share of cheese curds when I was home I seem to notice more of this in the midwest than I am seeing here in VA.


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## greg

Yes, it's definitely a problem here and in the surrounding area. Where I disagree with Chef Bourdain is the cause of it. I believe he attributed it to twinkies, ho-ho's and processed cheese, the latter of which is nearly tantamount to a criminal statement to me. I was born and raised in Wisconsin; American cheese has one use, in my mind-grilled cheese sandwiches. Also, while diet is certainly a big part of the problem, there's more to it than just that. Long, sedentary winters spent in front of a Sony playstation instead of exercising, for example.


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## athenaeus

Today to my great surprize I saw on the bookselves of the biggest bookstore of Athens "Kitchen Confidential" translated in Greek!!!
I have to assure you that rarely books of this kind are translated into my language . Let's see if Greeks are going to read this book.

The translation of the title is exact but it doesn't sound so impressive in Greek as it does in English.


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## kokopuffs

While I was growing up in the 60's we played baseball and ditch 'em all summer long. We even surfed...waves, real waves. Nowadays kids today do nothing but surf the net and their interactive skills are poor. Another thirsty two ouncer, please!


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## chiffonade

I'm sorry to report but the Twin Cities area is not the only place with a weight problem .

I live in the 4 Corners region and obesity here is nearly a way of life. There is a large Indian population here and their predisposition to hang onto poundage seems to be genetic. Like other cultures who have forgone manual labor for a more sedentary life, I'm afraid they're paying a high health price.

Do you know it's nearly impossible to find an exercise class here? I love food and enjoy both its preparation and consumption but I know I have to expend those calories. I'm exercising alone now to a tape but I would have loved to do an exercise class. Not enough people here are interested in not looking how they look.

I guess another aspect of this phenomenon in certain areas is weather. Obesity seems rampant in places with tough, cold winters. I guess in Florida, all that bathing-suit-weather is conducive to watching your weight.


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## greg

Great topic for discussion!! Let's move this part of the discussion to the Nutrition forum.

Back to Bourdain, now. Athenaeus, if and when possible, can you read the translation? It would be interesting to hear how that book comes across in Greek. Also, congratulations to Anthony! It's a great compliment to any writer when their works are available translated. Much deserved, I'd say.


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## athenaeus

I was having in mind that Greg! 
I hope many Greeks read this book because here in Athens we have a lot of fashion victims that they think that they know everything about kitchen and chefs...
I will post my comments about the translation just for the records of the Forum !


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## kokopuffs

Chiffonade:

It's the Piman Indians in that region that have, unfortunately, the highest per capita incidence of obesity and diabetes in the world. It probably would have been best for supermarkets not to move into the region and let the tribe continue their hunter/gatherer existence - an existence which allows for much sparser eating habits.


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## chiffonade

We have Utes here and Navajos. The Navajos seem to be the heavier of the two tribes but I know some Utes that have the box-shaped bodies which pack on weight in the midsection - the worst place to store fat. (All you "pears" out there, thank God you're bottomheavy.)

What I've observed is that they did not curb their eating habits to accommodate their more sedentary lifestyle. They enjoy mutton which has an enormous amount of fat and they have a penchant for fried foods that rivals no one. They seem to offer no resistance to bad foods, assuming that because they've "always eaten them" that they're OK now.


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## suzanne

Seems to me this thread has gotten *WAY* off-topic. If you MUST discuss the eating habits/body type/poverty of those particluar indigenous peoples, at least first read the research done by Dr. Leslie Olmstead of the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee. She has done several scientific studies of that segment of the American population.

Now, how about getting back to Chef Tony? I was having a post-work glass of wine at the bar at Les Halles tonight, and overheard him telling the "killing the Mexican turkey" story just as he did in the new book. It was no more engaging live than on paper. I have issues with all of his books that I've read (missed _Bone in the Throat_ and _Typhoid Mary_), having to do with his attitude(s) and writing ability, and the books' editing or lack thereof. While I think he gets closer than many to the reality of the professional kitchen, his reality only partly overlaps with mine or that of anyone else I know. I admire him for getting noticed and being given the chance to say what he says. But just as any TV chef is not a fair depiction of what it's *really* like to be a chef, neither are his depictions the ultimate in genuineness. Entertaining, yes; to be swallowed whole, no.


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## greg

Yes, this has definitely gotten off-track. Could everyone please continue discussion of the obesity topic in the thread I started in the Nutrition forum a few days ago, if you would.  

Thanks for the post, Suzanne. It's always refreshing to hear from those professionals that don't enjoy his work. My own career has shared some parallels with his, so I tend to identify with his version of our life and job more. But, even never having met the man or worked in NYC, I could see where someone could have an issue with his attitude(s).


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## athenaeus

An article in todays newspaper about " Kitchen Confidential" reminded me that I promised to tell you about the Greek translation.

The translation in Greek was very good and from what I found out, the book sold really well.

BUT. If I were Anthony Bourdain I would write a second book with the title :

" What stupid Journalists wrote about my book"...


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## suzanne

To a very small extent, that's what _A Cook's Tour -- In Search of the Perfect Meal_ is about (the book about making the TV show, which hasn't even started running yet).

As with his others, I had problems with this one as well -- but in this case the problems may be due more to the publisher, who IMO rushed the book to market in order to hit the Xmas selling period, and generate interest in the show. Just some sloppy editing, and repetitive chapters instead of covering new ground. After all, it's only his business if he couldn't do his job because he was too drugged-out -- well, at least he was aware of it, and wasn't holding a knife at the time. BTW, friends of mine who recently spent time in Vietnam confirm the glories of the food and the people there.

And in response to Greg: I do "enjoy" his books. They're quite entertaining, as they are meant to be. And there are many true bits in them. I just don't want readers to think they are a totally accurate picture of the whole industry. That would be as false a conclusion as thinking that Emeril's cooking shows depict the real life of a working chef.


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## greg

Suzanne, sorry I mis-understood you. He does at least say as much himself about his life being an accurate (or in-accurate) picture of the industry in the chapter on Scott Bryan. I definitely agree with you on _A Cook's Tour_ . Entertaining and informative, but with a funky flow to it.


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## athenaeus

This book doesn't candy coat anything indeed.

I hope that I am wrong, but I think that this book, in the long term, will harm the business a lot and above all it will harm its author badly.
I think that it was not very smart from the part of the culinary world to embrace this book, but this is of course my opinion and I repeat : I wish I am wrong. 

I am sorry that many professionals recognised themselves in this book.I wish things were different.

I have a bitter taste in my mouth though, because none will ever write a book about the decent characters that has met and they actually exist in the kitchen. 
About the people that ,although they work 10-12 hours under conditions you all know, they never do drugs and they never get drunk.
About the people , the men I mean, that instead of whispering you something dirty in the ear, they narrate you the last achivement of their kid.
About the people that instead of locking themselves in the WC with a couple of others that stink from sweat and alchohol( I have worked in London, I am sorry, 3 is the usually number for such a party...) to have a 5 min ( 5 min?? I think I say too much...) sex session they go jog or excercise to let the steam off...

The bright and clean ( under any perspective) side of the kitchen seems to be very confidential indeed...


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## anneke

Athenaeus: that would not have made a very interesting book.... I don't think Bourdain would have written a book that would have made him look like Martha Stewart; can't compete with the goddess of kitchen capitalism!

Anyway, here's what I have observed from my own experience: I have worked in 2 very different restaurants this year. The first kitchen was run by an older (54-50) alcoholic sous-chef. It was staffed with thirty-something cooks. They were all a tad disillusioned, moody, drunk whenever they could and were not unacquainted with drugs. Most were too ugly to get laid, but you never know. For the most part, sex in the washrooms usually involved the guests, not the staff.

In the second place where I worked, the staff is much younger: 19-24. (I feel like their mother!) The behaviour is much different. Only one is on his way to alcoholism (again the sous) and the others are shocked if one of them actually gets some action. There's the occasional joint inthe storeroom/changing room, but beyond that it's pretty clean. Only one indiscretion at the staff Christmas party, but it didn't go beyond what 12 year olds do at the school dance if you know what I mean. Go figure; I'm starting to think the younger generations are ashamed of their parents and are going back to being 'old fashioned'. It's kind of cute and refreshing. Or maybe it's just too taxing to be wild and shocking in this age of laissez-faire and liberalism...

The point being that the landscape is changing and Bourdain's kind might just be going the way of the dinosaur.


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## athenaeus

Yes Anneke, I know I know what you mean and I understand what the author wanted to show.

*All I was suggesting was that you cannot satisfy your hunger by eating your flesh and you cannot satify your thirst by drinking your blood.*

Just a question which is not a rhetorical one ( I really wonder about this)

Do you think that the reality described in the book exists only in the kitchens of the States?

Kitchen is a long story in France and London and Milan. 
Are those kitchens perfect?
Of course not.

So why you think we didn't have so far a book of this kind discribing the French Reality?

Maybe because a Martha Stewart wouldnt make a carrer in France...


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## anneke

I bet such books have been written Athenaeus, but are harder to find as their authors have obviously not reached Bourdain's notoriety. Are there no memoir of great chefs out there? I'm also willing to bet that there are 'copycat' Bourdain-style books cropping up all over the world as we speak.

I suspect that hotel kitchens and European kitchens each have their own culture, very different from what Bourdain describes in his book. I would be interested in hearing from people who have worked in either...


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## athenaeus

Of course such books exist and now we come to my point.

In Europe, they consider Chefs Artists and not laborers, althought everyone knows what goes on behind close doors.

SO, the system there ,protects Chefs they same way it protects Lawyers , Doctors, etc etc etc.

In case someone publishes a book that might hurt the image of a respectable class ,like the one of Chefs, he /she is history.
We never find out a lot about this book...

That's why I say that this book will hurt in the long term the author and then the whole industry in the States...

You do not built a status as a professional with things that you DON'T DO but with things that you do. 

Unless, what is suggested in KC has to do with Status. In that case I took it all wrong and I apologize.

But of course, this is just my opinion and I wish I am wrong.


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## anneke

I see what you're saying. I don't think most American culinary professionals mind this image though, for the same reason that war injusries and scars are displayed proudly as medals (see the 'worst kitchen injury' tread!). If you are introduced to someone as a cook or chef, you are more likely to be received with a wink and a nudge rather than a look of disgust by people who are familliar with Bourdain's work. America doesn't look upon Clint Eastwood's characters with disgust, but rather with respect. Same thing I guess with the image Bourdain portrays. It's a 'cowboy' thing is some sense.

I see what you mean though Athenaeus. My family in Europe would not have been so supportive of my career choice had they read Kitchen Confidential. They probably would have reacted with lesser disgust had I announced that I had chosen prostitution to make a living. 

I suppose it really is a cultural thing.


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## athenaeus

I think very highly of the american society and the american culinary world.

That's why I am surpised with the reaction towards this book.

I mean, were you flattered with this image, regardless if the author was right? He was right, yes!! 
But were you flattered?? 

Anneke, I received 6 copies of this book. With the exception of Melina, my sister, who gave this to me with her kind heart, I wish you could see the face and read the notes of the people that gave me the other 5 copies...

This was their bottom line " Oh ,we know now what you have been doing in your 20ies while you were trying to become a cook ( and they close the eye...) and you play the respectable now"

I don't know if it's a cultural thing but in the States they are people that they want to become chefs. I think that they seek for aknowledgement and not for a cut finger to demonstrate.


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## anneke

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that this is the appeal of the profession for Americans. That would be demeaning and wrong and I, like you, think very highly of America and its chefs.

I'm just saying that gangsters and cowboys have always been a part of the legend and the dream and the 'go west' appeal. Progress in America has always come with a dose of controversy and unconventionalism. Not unlike the artists of Europe; we ALL know their lifestyle was not exactly clean and rosy. 

The other thing to consider is that 'libertinage' as my mother puts it is still considered shocking/titillating in America, while the same behaviour in much of Europe (and increasingly, Greece, I am told) is not talked about because it doesn't shock anybody anymore. People are more accepting of it.

Anyway, please understand that I am not condoning this behaviour; I am personally still uncomfortable with it and if I ever wound up in any of Bourdain's **** holes, I wouldn't last an hour under those conditions. 

I'm also very sorry that this book may have tainted the perception that your loved ones have of you. They should know better as we on Cheftalk do!


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## athenaeus

I know what you mean but you were right to straight it out because other people are reading too 


If you ever go to London I will tel you to visit a couple of places I worked in

I was lucky Anneke, because in those holes they were decent people too. And this is what I keep saying!!!

Especially one ,who one night, when he saw me drinking whiskey from the bottle, like I was drinking water, he grabbed me from my hair and put my head in the toilet in front of everyone...
After of course giving me a loud lecture of what kind of pseudo-educated and coward I was.

I am gratefull to him and none will ever write a book for those kind people that help the younger ones to find their way.

As for what collegues think, I am too old to care


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## cape chef

I understand all your points here,

I would like to something, I am a Chef, Cooking in kitchens for over 20 years know.

I am by no means a saint, and I have witnessed alot of crap in kitchens. I do however work terribly hard to put fourth a very proffessinal aura. When I put on my Chefs uniform I do with pride and respect to the industry.When I read Bourdans book in cape cod two summers ago , I found my self laughting,then almost crying at his dipiction. This is not the way all American kitchens conduct themselves.I tell you when Mr bourdan hosted that stupid TV show last year about what goes on behind doors in Americans kitchen, I wanted to create a new orifice with my fist for Mr Bourdan. There are still drugs and alcohol being abused in our buisness. But lets not forget that we are not the only industry that suffers from these problems to a certian % .

There are many chefs that pride themselves on doing what is right,and are not concerned about getting laid in the storage room
cc


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## anneke

Well said!

I hope more people follow your example!


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## athenaeus

Cape Chef thank you 

I needed to hear that. Although I hate uniforms, I rise from my chair when I see someone that wears it with pride.
Pride and dignity counts a lot for me.

Thank you.


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## cape chef

Listen, I appreciate your thoughts.

But we as Chefs and Foodies need to stick our necks out and say what we feel. If we sit on our arse and just let people decide our fate, I say (Bullsh*t) to that. Now I do not swear to often, but this topic has gotten under my skin. We as a community have an obligation to be honest with one another about the (real) world of kitchens. With that said, I urge everyone to really think through what your role is in the world of food & beverage. It goes way beyond being a good cook. Stand up and be heard!!!
Challenge the negitives, Do your homework so no one can poke holes in your position. There is a way to raise the bar, But it has to be a collective effort. Don't you think?
cc


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## anneke

Indeed.

I for one, with my limited experience can say that NO, Bourdain's world has not been a reality in the kitchens where I have worked.

Who's next?


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## qjwin

I've been following recent comments on Kitchen Confidential with interest. As Anneke, I think, rightly pointed out, cooks of my generation--are in fact, dinosaurs--I'd hoped that I'd addressed that pretty explicitly in KC--that I come from a time in America prior to cooking being a "glamour" profession--a time when there was little reasonable expectation that the trade would lead to any kind of financial security or improved social standing. As a result--as Atheneus rightly observes--there was a lot less pride and professionalism in the business--and a lot more drugs. CLEARLY things have changed a lot. Being the "fastest" cook--with the largest tolerance for cocaine and alcohol is no longer considered a plus. Even I would fire a cook caugfht snorting coke during the shift--which is a measure of how much things have changed. What's surprised me, though, is that I wrote KC NOT as a cautionary--or as an expose--I intended it as a cult amusement for my fellow cooks and chefs and restaurant lifers in the NYC tri-state area. I had--and have NO idea whether fish on Monday is fresh in Helsinki or Sydney or Berlin--and I had little idea before touring whether cooks behave as badly worldwide as they have in my relatively narrow experience. All I can tell you is I get a lot of mail--and have met a lot of chefs--many who you'd think would have nothing in common with my own journeyman level experience--all over the world who found much to recognize in my squalid personal history. That an "outlaw ethic" exists still should come as no surprise to anyone who's read Nicolas Freeling's THE KITCHEN (written in the 50's) or Orwell's DOWN AND OUT(in the 40's). We have always--by virtue of our hours and working conditions and isolation been outsiders--with a worldview that reflects that environment. Being French, by the way is NO antidote to sloppy, lazy, dirty work habits. (see Idwal Jones' HIGH BONNET). I work regularly with French cooks--and they're the first ones to cheat, to use "le micro" or to "flash" sliced roast under the salamandre, or to squeeze blood out of a steak (Med rare to medium in one second!)--especially when they're cooking for "ignorant Americains". While I am grateful for Atheneus's concern for my own well-being--and sympathetic that he worries about how KC presents an industry where most of us work with real pride--let's face it: few of us will ever work for Robuchon --most will struggle in anonymity in mid-range restaurants, working long hours with little recognition. A little bad-*** pride in our toughness, our perseverance, our resilience--our OTHERNESS can hardly be a bad thing. If we didn't think we were basically harder working and "better" than all the 9-5ers it would be that much harder to haul our aching butts outta bed each morning. I think the profession will survive my book. A toast to my fellow dinosaurs! ANTHONY BOURDAIN


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## athenaeus

Dear QJWIN

I am a she person that has studied history also, that's why I am so interested in you. 
Historically speaking, since, as you said, you are an antiquity. 

And for one other reason that I will place here just for the records. I hate to see talented people being devoured by mediocre media. You survived kitchen to be devoured by them? Anyway, this is a personal thought!

I had the privilige to read "KC" in two languages and to read the articles of journalists from many papers.

I also have posted that if I were Anthony Bourdain I would write a second book with the title " What stupid Journalists have written for my book"
If you had an idea what kind of bozo writes the preface to the Greek edition...
Of course this is not your fault.

Maybe it's the same thing that you have observed. You didn't expected that people that live in Berlin would stop ordering fish on Mondays... 

But my surprise started when I was reading posts here of people that they were so enthousiastic with your book that they were actually proposing it to their culinary students.

I personally think that your book is not for culinary students, because students have the right to dream that one day they will work for a Robuchon. 
None can take this dream from them.If you don't have dreams you will always stay underpaid and in the shadow and of course you will never work even for Anthony Bourdain.

I don't think that with this book, you put the lights in the kitchen.
You just put yourself and only yourself under those lights.

I think you did well for doing so, I would do the same if I were you. 
And now that I read that you did that for your amusement either , I am very very glad!
But in my posts I didn't criticized this at all. 

I just criticised how THEY took your book.

If someone is inspired by your book and he/she recognizes him/her self in there, then, he will always stay there.

Now that you are touring to promote your book I hope that you tell people that you wrote it for your amusement and that they should not take it literally!

Good luck to you and to your next books


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## qjwin

ATHENAEUS: Salutations. I applaud your commitment to your trade--and apologize for my gender confusion. But I hope that what appealed to all the chefs and cooks around the world who read and enjoyed KC is the acknowledgment that it depicted the cooking trade--even at a very high level--as as much about repetition, endurance, loyalty, cameraderie--the grim mechanics of doing the same dish the same way again and again and again-as it is about artistry. That some absolutely brilliant two and three star chefs have the same social skills as Charles Manson should surprise noone--least of all other chefs. Being a disaster as a human being is certainly no impediment to cooking well- (just look at David Bouley)A lot of us take a death's head sense of pride in our own dysfunction--we KNOW we'll never be solid citizens--and we like it like that. Perhaps someday, food will be prepared in cool, sterile "laboratoires" to the gentle strains of Mozart, by crisp, calm, dedicated professionals for whom profanity, bad behavior, alcohol abuse, promiscuity are anathema--perhaps cooks of the future will work 40 hour weeks, get paid well, receive health benefits...maybe they won't have to sign in and out in a log book when they want to take a piss (like one famous French three star used to demand). Or have trays of food thrown in their faces (same guy). Then again--maybe not. For those interested in seeing a three star Michelin kitchen in action--and why a lot of cooks feel they need a drink or five at the end of the shift, I recommend the amazing Gordon Ramsay documentary series: BOILING POINT. A brilliant chef--and a nice guy( I think)--but man! You want to see pressure? He makes me look like a diplomat.


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## momoreg

What I got out of it was a lot of laughs, and as a former NYC pastry chef, a lot to relate to as well.
What's this I hear about a show on the Food Network?


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## cape chef

Knowing you as I do Momoreg, I am sure you took no gruff from anyone


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## athenaeus

Dear QJWIN and friends.

I will narrate you a rather amusing story about an ancient variation of "Kitchen Confidential"

When Athenaeus ( the original, not me! ) from Naukratis of Egypt wrote his famous book the "Deipnosophists", cooks ,and we are talking about the Greek cooks that mattered at that time ( they have invented cooking!) were people that were ex-slaves!

Althought the art of cooking was highly appreciated , the profession of the cook as the one of the banker was exercised only by ex-slaves...

Athenaeus of Naukratis was a strange guy. He was a bon viveur who loved drinking, doing drugs ( yes! they existed in antiquity) and in his house he had only the most beautifull and most expensive prostitutes of Egypt.

He used to gather his friends and FOR HIS AMUSEMENT he decided to collect in a book all the culinary stories he knew.And he knew a lot since he has worked as a cook himself.

He narrated the stories of drunk cooks, of thives and other scamps of his Era that had the talent to cook.He has narrated hilarious stories of fish that was served to rich and sauces that they stink (from bacteria)

BUT Athenaeus loved cooks and he highly appreciate them so in his narrations the drunkards appeared as magicians!
The under payed ex-slaves are presented as the artists of the future that deserved a sponsor to invest on them.

He named quick sex, sensualism and he called it spice of this art...

But you know how publicity works. It has to be threated with the way it deserves and above all to be faugthed by its own weapons.Athenaeus knew that .

So, this book of his, took great publicity. It became the Bible of the civilised world and soon being a cook became one of the most respectable professions.

Athenaeus concluded his 9th book with this quote " You judge a prostitute and a cook by the price you must pay to have them. The most expensive they are, they better they perform their Art"

In the excavations in Pompei they have found this quote inscribed with golden letters 

In Pompei, cooks were paid a fortune

Athenaeus didn't candy coated anything, in fact he wrote for his amusement but with his book changed the history of cooking 
Cooks ever since owe, him A LOT

Dear QJWIN

I don't know in what way KC changed cooks lives. It would be unfair to ask something like that from you .

*As you said, you wrote it for your pleasure.* And I like this because it seems that we have the same hobby.

If Kitchen Confidential is still popular untill next year from now, I will change my nick name to Anthony Bourdain.
And in my classes, that I will start in a respectable university of New York from this summer, that teaches what people love most, publicity, KC will be the Bible.

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts with me.


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## greg

I think this book *is* for students. If we cannot learn from the mistakes of history (and Chef Bourdain's book is a history, of sorts), what are we to learn from? If anything, it's better that prospective career cooks and chefs have a more realistic view of how things can be in this industry than the one foisted upon them by culinary schools and the like.

As far as recognizing yourself in there; yes I do. But it's a me of the past, just as Bourdain tells of a Bourdain of the past. Bourdain kicked heroin, I kicked cocaine. Both of us (and many other people in many professions) have moved on to better things. In my case it was, as for you, Athenaeus, due to decent people that I knew. I'm sure there are people that recognize themselves as they are now when they read KC; hopefully they will see that the person that Bourdain was in the past was not good (as he apparently did) and stop their self-destructive, un-professional behavior. Hopefully.

What I really got from KC was that there is a sub-culture that I belong to; that of a career chef/cook. It's what I love, it's where I belong. The thing is to have the particular view of the world that we, as cooks, do and yet be able to relate to the "normal" world in a professional manner. I think that finding this balance, combined with whatever talent we may posess, determines our success. And so, my first rambling rant of this year ends...

Anthony, now that you are done with the book/tv show, what are you up to now?


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## athenaeus

Dear Greg

I got your point. There is no matter of agreeing or dissagreeing here, it's just a different point of view.

The fact that some people experienced wilde situations and they survived them, has a value only for themselves. I mean you do not put in your resume " I did drugs and now I am clean" , you know what I mean.
And it has an "educational" value only for people that are in the same mess right now.
You show them that there is a way out IF they are lucky.

Viewing things from this side, I come to the conclusion that for cooks-wannabe KC is not very useful a reading.
Unless they have Anthony Bourdain in person, reading them passages from the book and explaining to them that they must never be bad children as he was.

But the author was not interested in that!

That was all I was suggesting. Nothing more nothing less, nothing about the author and the essence of the book.

I was talking about the reactions towards the book.

IF I wanted to make a comment about the author It would be the following :

Eating you flesh turns out to be quite an unhealthy practice, in the long term.

BUT you know something Greg? I decided to erase all that I have said above and to take back everything I posted about the reactions towards this book.

I take it all back!

You know why? I have this last post of yours and I have you(especially this tiny sentence under your avatar that describes your status) that present in the most clear way what I was trying to say.

You defended KC and you wannabe Cape Chef!
That means that *you stand by your folks yes, but you are looking towards the future* .

This is what I was trying-at least- to suggest, this is how things will improve in this business, in MY opinion of course.
This is the opinion of a person who - as you and QJWIN ,very kindly I must admit, insinuated- is an outsider.

You needed 1 post, I needed 5-6 and you have the "nerve" to make jokes for poor lawyers that had their head stuck in the toilet ???


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## anneke

Atheneaus, I think that we shouldn't be underestimating young people. I personally think that it's more beneficial for us to be honest to them about something than it is to cover it up. It gives them the opportunity to think about it, to judge the behaviour and to choose one way or another. If you are invited to a party and you find out at the last minute that it's a party for cokeheads, aren't you glad you found out early? Even if you choose to go, you'll be more prepared for it. Likewise, young people are less likely to get 'dragged in' to the behaviour if they are prepared for it.

I don't think that sugar coating things is useful for anyone (well, maybe for our old grandmothers!). If the kids can't take a shot of reality, how will they ever survive in the industry?

As for your fear that the book is damaging and perpetuates a negative image, allow me to use an old cliché: the first step towards healing is admitting you have a problem. I think Bourdain successfully brought to light a problem in a way that is in dramatic contrast to what most view as acceptable behaviour today. I don't think anyone, not even the most hardened youngster could say that this is a lifestyle they aspire to. 

From my experience in culinary school, I can say that there are screw-ups who will no doubt end up in rehab and have a short and miserable life. But I garantee that they will NOT be in the culinary profession. They won't survive. For the rest of us, Bourdain hasn't killed a dream, he supports a dream. He has shown what hard work and discipline and professionalism yields. THis has been a redemption for him; for culinary students it becomes their modus operandi.

We North Americans are bombarded with exposés, articles, interviews, books, all geared towards one thing: shock and expose. It's a hobby I guess. Has it killed professions? Careers, yes; professions, no. Perhaps we have become blasé about the whole thing, in which case I appreciate your fresh view on this Athenaeus. However, I will never retract my statement that covering up the truth to protect the new generations, in the culinary profession or elsewhere is wrong. Change can only occur when information is brought to light, not covered up.


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## athenaeus

Well, QJWIN 

You MUST admit that at least I, related you to a great author of antiquity that I admire a lot and I wasn't in any case suggesting that you must start touring schools with your book, showing them the truth, like Miss America or something like this.
I am not a North American and I do not try to find a moral conclusion in everything...
I just enjoy the conversation.


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## melina

Ha! Tell me about dirt in one's profession...
Tell me about drugs and alchohol and wilde things.
I liked that someone told somethings even in another profession. I felt a wilde happiness.I wish I had the talent to mock at the face of those they envy the world of fashion and modelling as Bourdain did.
I imagined myself stopping a show and start screamming things to the stupid that were watching.Maybe I will do this when I decide to quit for good never when I am in the business.
This is what atheneus was saying, I know because we have discussed about it many times and up to a point she is right. But looking things from inside is a different thing.
Anneke I didn't get you. Before Bourdain's appearance you called him a cow boy.Are you on the chef's side as Greg is or you are impartial?If you are impartial what do you suggest? Be KC a recommended reading?
And why Canadians say that they are North Americans and not just Canadians?

Melina from south eastern europe


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## anneke

Because I'm talking about Canadians and Americans Melina. We're not that different.

I don't think I am the one who has changed her tune since Bourdain's apperance. I still think he's a cowboy and the lifestyle he portrays in his book is disgusting. My last post has little to do with Bourdain I suppose. It has more to do with education and the 'cleaning-up' of an industry. I have nothing in common with Bourdain except his love of food. Do I think this should be recommended reading? I wouldn't sell the book at the campus bookstore, but would I try to keep a kid away from it? Nope!


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## kylew

I have read this thread with great interest. It is amazing to me that his book has caused such a stir. I received the book for Christmas and am about 100 pages into it. 

In the forward of the edition I have, the author states that he never expected anyone to read the book. It seems to me he wrote it to purge and have a little fun. So far, I like the book a lot. It's very entertaining. Tales of The Dreadnaught v. Mario's and general fear and loathing in P-Town make for a fun read. 

As to what I've read that relates to the restaurant biz, some of it is common sense (if you walk into a place and the chef is sitting at the bar in a dirty apron picking...) and some is informative (the fish is old on Mondays). 

The "deplorable" behavior of kitchen community is neither especially deplorable (everyone who has ever worked at a Burger King has committed some unspeakable act) nor unique to the restaurant biz. In the 80's, here in Gotham City, no matter where you were, it wasn't "Is there any coke here?" but rather "Who has it and how much!" This was true at weddings, funerals and in the office. We all make mistakes. The reason I haven't had a drink in 14 years is not because scotch made me a candidate for Boy Scout of the Century. We learn and move on. 

I don't think it was Mr. Bourdain's intent to rip the lid off the restaurant biz. He wanted to write a book. The restaurant biz is what he knows so he wrote a book about the restaurant biz.


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## slavegirl

When I started working for free at the restaurant where I am now at, the exec chef asked me before I started, "Have you read KC? All of it, that's all true."

"Twice," I replied.

My experience, despite his words, has been nothing like Bourdain's. It is not the "pirate crew" that Bourdain so loves to be in league with. It's a downright tea party in comparison, and compare that to my "real" job as a computer programmer and I might as well be in a sensory deprivation tank from 9 to 5. So I do suspect that many who read it see twinklings of their own experiences, at least here and there, and enjoy it, and nod in agreement on some level. I don't think it is ever bad to gain a window into someone else's experience, be it to learn something new to do, or something new to avoid.  I dont' think this is a bad book for students to read, but hopefully they realize this is one man's story, and not the Bible on the Way Things Are.

The part that was hardest for me to, oh, what's the word, accept, was the incidence in the Rainbow Room kitchen where he gets his respect by skewering a nasty, bothersome coworker with a hot fork. I certainly wouldn't doubt it's validity, but that's one out of control situation where deliberate injury, that could also slow and derail the work production seemed way out there. So maybe not everyone nods with a knowing grin to that story, but people relate to all different sorts. The book is out there, it's one person's experience. I can see how such a book would cause problems for restaurants with bad stories (see the thread elsewhere on the board about the chef wringing dirty rags on meat to make it appear more well cooked when sent back to the kitchen as too rare), but Bourdain for the most part seems to avoid this problem by writing about things and places well in the past, who have had time to change or disappear in the interim.

As for the writing style, Bourdain has succeeded, at least in my opinion, to creating a strong personal voice.

There was an article in the San Francisco Chronicle not too long ago that was written by Bourdain about the recent wave of chef celebrity-dom, and how its time might indeed be already past due for being over. I began reading the article without checking the author, interested in the subject so quickly I didn't stop.

By the time I was halfway through it, I knew who had written it. All it took was one particular sentence (a brilliant one referencing Emeril as the Ron Jeremy of the cooking world) to tip me off and within a paragraph I was certain of it. To me, that is one of the marks of a successful writer, to be heard in a way all one's own. Doesn't matter, in this sense, if you agree with them or not, they've developed their "voice," which is not an easy thing to do. I happen to enjoy his style, and his ability to speak of things that perhaps are not "safe" subjects. Huzzah!

I do wonder, though, with all the books (1., how the **** do you have the time, Tony?), how that gels with huge hours involved with being an exec level chef. I suppose the high profile is good advertising, but I know Bourdain is on a book tour at the moment, I am planning to go sneak a peak at him in Corte Madera, CA when he comes around these parts in a couple weeks. What goes on back at the restaurant when the chef is gone so much? I'm just curious, I know my chef heads out for a week here or there to other countries for various food explorations, but I would suspect Bourdain must be gone quite a lot more, to promote his books and create that television show starting next week. Ack, I am veering off topic.

SlaveGirl
http://www.restaurantslave.com


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## jim berman

Slavegirl really said a lot with ...

With an attempt to add input rather than reiterate, there are several aspects of Kitchen Confidential that may be embelished, but there are most certainly true-to-life experiences that Mr. Bourdain shared. That said, I do not consider myself an 'antiquarian' chef (by any long shot), but there were more aspects in the book that related to what I had seen & experienced in restaurants than what I hadn't.

As for 'suggested reading' for students. I say "**** right!" There isn't a week that goes by where I cross paths with a culi student that has yet to do some internship work in a restaurant and has no insight; frequently they are unaware of the pay, the hours, the very improbability of ever having their own TV show. The only idea they have of what goes on in the BOH is the rosy picture they get when they are visiting the school. I may, or may not, have reconsidered my career path had Kitchen Confidential been around then. Now that it is, when the cooking schools issue  The Professional Chef, it should be teamed withKitchen Confidential as companion reading.


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## greg

"This was the opinion of an outsider but I spent the same amount of money to read this book as the insiders did so maybe you will recognize me the right to have an opinion."

We make no division here regarding "insiders" and "outsiders". "A food lover's link to professional chefs" is the statement of purpose written under the cheftalk logo on the main page. Everyone has a right to an opinion here, and I am very sorry if anyone has been made to feel otherwise.


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## qjwin

Mr. Bond: Apparently I overlooked one of your posts. I meant no offense. As far as my plans for the future--which is what I think you asked? At this point--I really have no idea. I'm pretty much making it up as I go along. If I said I wanted to die on the line, though,I'd be lying. I'd like to go back to Viet Nam. Maybe write a whole book in Vietnam. That would be nice.


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## pete

Atheneus, in one of your earlier posts you say that no one would write a book describing all the hard-working "good" chefs out there. Well, there are lots of them: "The Soul of a Chef", "The Last Days of Haute Cuisine in America", "Culinary Artistry" are just a few of the many books that depict that kind of working environment, not to mention most of the introductions to chef's cookbooks. Most of these chronicles the chef's early career working hour after hour in the great kitchens of the world. Maybe the chef was a tyrannical Frenchman or not, but none of these introductions dare discuss the steamier sides of this industry. I believe that one of the reasons A. B. wrote this book was the fact that no one ever discussed this side in public. It was chefs' "dirty, little secret". It was about time someone told that side of the story. 
One thing that everyone seems to forget is that Bourdain says that not every kitchen is like the ones he has experience. I does not claim to have an insight into all the kitchens across the US. All he is doing is presenting on side of the story. And yes he made many a chef laugh and maybe even reminicse about life in this crazy industry.
BTW, if I am to believe some of the stories from my french chefs, about when they were younger and doing their apprenticeships, American cooks are not the only ones to act in such a manner. Some of the stories I have been told would knock the socks off of even Mr. Bourdain.


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## greg

Actually, Chef Bourdain, you overlooked one sentence at the end of one of *my* posts. No worries, though; I took no offense and no apology was necessary. Good luck with returning to Vietnam; it sounded (in _A Cook's Tour_ ) like you enjoyed it. Imagine how much better it will be without a camara crew tailing you!


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## greg

I'm not upset about anything here. I'm merely clarifying something for Chef Bourdain.

I'm curious; what exactly do you mean by " building our own mythology"?


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## culinarian247

Is this the best book on what it's like in the BOH?


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## greg

It tells you what it _can_ be like. Bourdain will be the first to tell you that not all kitchens are like his.


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## suzanne

For another view, read Michael Ruhlman's _The Soul of a Chef._ It has a section on the chef of Lola, a restaurant in Cleveland, and another on Thomas Keller. Both of these give you an idea of what it's like in those kitchens. Very different from what Chef Bourdain describes. In fact, EVERY kitchen I've ever worked in (or even just trailed in) was different from every other kitchen. So please don't think that any one view will be 100% definitive.


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