# Did or did you not go to culinary school? Was it worth it?



## kaiquekuisine (Apr 11, 2013)

So i was just extremely curious to see how many of you guys actually went to culinary school , and for those who did or didnt in the end was it worth it. 

How did you guys get involved and or got started in the culinary industry. 

Me i still havent yet decided if i will be going to culinary school. 

Im at a great position in the restaurant i work at now , that uses great seasonal ingredients. Im basically considered the baby of the group but they all say i have talent and im working alot and loving every minute of it. 

My chef is mentoring me and i feel like a positition like mine many people after culinary school dont even get an opportunity like this so easily. Besides ending up in debt doesnt sound so great and i prefer to travel and backpack and see the world all while learning, then going to school and paying when i could be out there enjoying life. 

Regardless i still consider school or some type of course just since its another thing i could add to a resume, and would give me more credibility even tho i believe you see someones skill on the line then through some paper. 

Anyway enough about me and more about you , lets hear some stories XD


----------



## miss kim78 (Mar 17, 2013)

If you decide to go to culinary school, make sure it is highly a reputable one. Some schools (like the Le Cordon Bleus of America) are merely a scam. They provide shitty education and leaves students in crapload of debt. There are many respected chefs that did not go to culinary school. They worked their way up (I have met many that started as dishwashers) with years of hard work, dedication, and having the talent and passion to reach high positions in the industry. I think culinary school is good for gaining book knowledge…well the school I attended wasn't. Most of the things I know now are from what I have learned in the real kitchens or on my own…not from culinary school. But then again, I am sure that the more reputable and credible schools would provide a better learning experience to grasp the theory aspect of cooking…just please stay away from Le Cordon Bleu.


----------



## veronporter (May 9, 2011)

Don't go. If you're in a good kitchen/learning from a good chef you have no reason to waste your money(other than to say you did and for "networking", which you can also do without school).

Just study, read and cook all you can. Stay with your current chef until you feel the amount you're learning slows down greatly and when that happens; talk to chef about how he can help take your career to the next level. If he is a true professional, he'll be happy to oblige. I'd also think about places you'd like to stage and start doing some of that. Set goals for yourself and make them happen!


----------



## kostendorf (Mar 15, 2012)

i decided to go to School first because i knew nothing about professional cooking.  went to a technical School and had a 2 year cooking program.  played volleyball for the collage so my athletic scollarship paid for the school.  i feel i got a good Basic introduction to professional cooking and also all the classical stuff you might get on a red seal test.  the Chefs there were great and every day they prepared you for the culinary test.  also got many good contacts there.  and hey man it's school.   collage life,  chicks, booze, drugs,  parting with collage chicks.  think i will re-enroll and take the professional baking course and do it all over again.  o yea i was 26 years old when i did this.


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Hi Kaique,

If you are serious about cooking as a career, then the answer is yes, you need school.

Here's why:

A restaurant's prime concern is to make money. If it makes sense to cook omelettes on the flat top, then staff are instructed to do so.  If it makes sense to mark off steaks before service and pop them in the oven to order, then staff are instructed to do so.  A restaurant or Hotel has no"contract" or duty to instruct staff right ways of doing things.

A school's prime concern is to teach the curriculum.  You might not learn how to move quickly, you might not master techniques because there isn't enough repetition, but the school has a duty to teach you the right way of doing things and more importantly, why things are done that way.

You may learn a lot from one Chef at one place, but you will not learn all you need to.  You might get this knowledge by working for many Chefs at many places, but there is no guarantee that what you are learning is the right way, or that the explanations are correct (I.E. searing off meat to  "lock in the juices".....)

Hope this helps....


----------



## paul alfred (Nov 18, 2011)

I am an advocate for learning via an apprenticeship, such as you are currently doing.  That is how I got started in the culinary field, and my brother did as well.  I'm now a line cook in a great hotel and a promising future with them, and my brother is an executive chef for a hotel where he lives.  I could list many more people I know who are doing well as chefs who never attended school, just as I could list an equal number of friends I know and work with who have gone to culinary school.  Either option works, it really depends on you and how you prefer to learn, as well as on the chefs you are able to find to teach and mentor you.  By your description, I think you're better off (for now anyway) staying on with your chef and learning as much as you can.  If you determine later that you want to go to school, then go for it...but I think you'll be fine without it.  You'll pick up the business part along the way, or you can always just take a business class at a local community college.  On the bright side if you choose to go to culinary school after working with your chef for a while, you should have no problem getting accepted into a culinary program anywhere.


----------



## wurzel (Apr 18, 2013)

I did 2 years at catering college myself. In all honesty I'd say I learnt more in my first 3 months working in a real fine dining place than I learnt in 2 years of college.

The way I see it, qualifications get you first job, experience and ability get every job after that. You've already got the job so I don't see any real reason to go to school unless qualifications are a lot more important in Brazil than they are here.

Foodpump has a good point that in the trade you generally learn the fastest and/or least expensive way to a job but you can get the classical methods from books to back up your practical experience. You never really get to do anything enough in school to master it anyway so book learning wouldn't put you too far behind on that.

@kostendorf, you've missed a trick... <mod edit: Belongs in PM>


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Maybe I should explain that I did do a one year culinary course at a local C.C.in Canada, and with that under my belt, figured I was ready for the big brave world.  Booked a one way flight to Zurich and grew up in a hurry.

See, Continental Europe doesn't "Do" Culinary Schools, they exist, but only for hobbyists. Matter of fact,  Cordon Bleu was originally designed for non-profesionals.  The professionals in Continental Europe do apprenticeships.

One week in Switzerland taught me that there is a HUuuge difference between those who completed a cook's apprenticeship, and those who didn't-- a difference in terms of salary and status.  At age 19,  I started on a 3 year cook's apprenticeship, and I was considered "old" as my clasmates were 15 or 16, I was 22 when I completed. My papers declare me a Cook, not a Chef, and Cook in all of Switzerland's three official languages too, so there's no confusion.  An apprenticeship is a 3-way contract between the apprentice, the employer, and the Gov't.  It (apprenticeship) is treated like highschool, a continuation of basic schooling.  You work 4 days at your employer's and take one day of school.  That one day is split into two parts, the first part with everything to do with your trade, and the second part dealing with the German language, bookkeeping, state law, and correspondence. You are tested regularily during those three years, yet those tests will only make up 45% of your entire mark.  55% is set aside for your practical exam, screw up on your practical and you can kiss those 3 years goodbye.  In other words you gotta know how to cook.

In order for an employer to offer apprenticeships, the Chef and at least 50% of his staff must have completed an apprenticeship as well.  Trained trainers training the trainees.  Should the Chef be replaced by an unqualified one, or the ratio of un-apprenticed employees to apprenticed ones change, the Fed. Gov't can remove an apprentice and move him/her to a new kitchen with qualified staff.  These guys take apprenticeships very seriously.

So, I repeat, you need some form of schooling.  Your Chef might or might not do things the right way, you may read books until you go blind, but you can't see the technique of say, making a sabayon, which is crucial to making a Hollandaise, or feel the consistancy of meat farce, you need to see them, and more importantly, repeat them under the eyes of someone who has mastered those techniques.  And the hows and whys need to be explained too.


----------



## wurzel (Apr 18, 2013)

That does sound like an excellent schooling foodpump.

They do something kind of similar here in the UK but it's more about cheap labour for the business and people off the unemployed list for the government, you don't come out knowing much about food at all really. I did 1 year of that myself with my second full time at college. This was becuase  the people who are supposed to check the restaurants out obviously didn't bother and I would have failed as they didn't do food covering more than half of the curriculum. If I recall, the head chef had to go and talk to someone at the college to get his 'trainer' qualification and that's all they needed.

 If we had something of the quality your apprenticeship sounds I'd be all for it.


----------



## kaiquekuisine (Apr 11, 2013)

foodpump said:


> Maybe I should explain that I did do a one year culinary course at a local C.C.in Canada, and with that under my belt, figured I was ready for the big brave world. Booked a one way flight to Zurich and grew up in a hurry.
> 
> See, Continental Europe doesn't "Do" Culinary Schools, they exist, but only for hobbyists. Matter of fact, Cordon Bleu was originally designed for non-profesionals. The professionals in Continental Europe do apprenticeships.
> 
> ...


Yeh i basically dream of doing something like that...


----------



## dennisb (May 21, 2013)

I went to a technical school in 1996 for culinary arts, and needless to say I feel it was a waste of time. You should get a job in a kitchen and work as much as you can in various positions. Have an eagerness to learn, ask lots of question, observe what the chefs are doing and ask why they are doing it. Show commitment, and enthusiasm, and you will succeed. Also get some books, research online, and practice at home. Cook for friends and family, take notes, and refine your skills. This trade takes patience, practice and above all a devout commitment. You cannot be afraid to ask questions and take notes I reiterate.. take notes!! Also ask the chef or chef's if you can try and run sauté on a slow night, or the grill. Good luck and don't give up.


----------



## brandon odell (Aug 19, 2012)

I noticed this year for the James Beard awards that more than half the chefs up for "Best Chef Midwest" (my region) did not go to school. I think whether or not it is the right answer for you depends on your goals and your current situation.

There are very, very few great mentoring chefs out there. As someone who has worked in many different food service sectors and worked with, for, hired and fired many degreed chefs, I can say that simply going to school means nothing. If you don't go to the right school, your education will eventually fail you and you'll be in the same boat as those without one. I have seen several graduates of a great local community college program run circles around CIA Hyde Park, Le Cordon Bleu and Johnson and Wales grads in my day.

Sounds like a lose / lose by what I've written, but that's not what I'm getting at. The truth is, "school or no school" has no right answer. Mentoring under a great chef will teach you more than you will ever learn in school, up to and including how to run a profitable kitchen. The trouble is there aren't a lot of great mentoring chefs out there. Going to a great school can set you up to run circles around your average "mentored" cook, assuming you can find a truly great school to go to. You have to weigh your options based on your situation. If you are currently working in a successful kitchen for a great chef who loves to teach and is good at it, do not leave to go to school. Absorb everything you can and ride that train as far as it will take you. If you find you are running out of things to learn, lose your teacher, or have hit a glass ceiling, it may be time to start finding a great school to get the piece of paper that will open more doors for you.

In my experience hiring chefs, I have always placed a lot more weight on experience than education BUT I look for someone with both first. I often require the education to even consider applicants at all. I personally did not go to culinary school, but I also never intended on being a career chef. I ended up a career chef by way of starting my own business. I am a business owner first and a chef by trade, not by degree or certification. Eventually, I will move completely out of the chef role and no longer use the term to describe what I do or who I am. The chefs I employ are a mixture of degreed and non-degreed cooks with a particular set of skills that qualify them to be called "personal chefs" by me and by the families I find for them to cook for.


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Brandon ODell said:


> Mentoring under a great chef will teach you more than you will ever learn in school, up to and including how to run a profitable kitchen. ..


Now, not trying to sound like a smart alec here, but.. "why"?

Why should a Chef show an employee all that he/she has learned during the course of their career?. Most Chefs and bakers that I know of will show employees stuff that only pertains to their job, and no more. Why? Simple: You're just training up your competition.

Not a romatic picture of an old hand showing the young one all the tricks of the trde is it? but an accuarate one..............


----------



## lagom (Sep 5, 2012)

Most of the chefs I know, both in the USA and in Europe will share not just what you need to work your position but will show you what your willing to persue. Ask,ask,ask, if your not persuing the knowledge they wont thrust it upon you. I have only met a few chefs in my life that were stingy with knowledge, I dont remember their names or food and no one else woukd either.


----------



## jliestman (May 23, 2013)

Hello all, first post to these boards.

I personally, at the young age of 20 attended a Culinary School for two years after high school.

I started working in restaurants at age 15, as a dishwasher of course, and fell in love with the entire atmosphere.

By age 16 my hard word and positive attitude had paid off, and I was on the line cooking in a small establishment.

I believe Culinary School is worthwhile for a few reasons... I had a great Chef to learn off of as a younger person, but he got sick shortly after I started cooking and it kind-of left me in the dark... I knew more than most people in the area, but definitely not enough to try and get another job...

This was my deciding factor to go to Culinary School.

I believe it's worth it because I learned enough of the basic principles to continue moving up in my career and I also got out and saw new techniques, learned about Baking (Which is a lot bigger deal than most think, in my opinion) and I learned a lot about who I was as a Chef.

My Culinary Class was 32 students, which was larger than my chef was comfortable with, but he made it work with hard word. 

25 of these 32 students had no prior kitchen experience, and were looking for an easy way out.

The year ended with 23 students remaining, and less than 10 of them are working in a restaurant now.

Culinary school is an investment. I would definitely recommend anyone go to it if they are interested in the profession, as long as they stay away from Le Cordon Bleu, which is a joke in my opinion.

You will learn enough in the two years you put into schooling to make it worthwhile in the long run for your career.

I hope this made sense, coming from a Culinary School I believe it was more than worth my time and effort.


----------



## bughut (Aug 18, 2007)

Yes I did...3 years day release. 1 day a week from my job which the company paid for. after 3 years they cancelled so I did a year full time on a bursary grant to get management training too, all good.

I was a mature student. I'd held posts as chef in the past by "Blagging it" But wanted the confidence of that certificate. I would never have started my own business without it. I know that.

I have 2 sons who are also chefs. Both tried college temporarily but gained their experience, credibility and reputation on the line. so heres an argument for both sides.

No. 2 son is now a trucker in America, Ohio...What can i say. Doesn't even cook now.


----------



## lbrax27 (May 16, 2013)

I was signed up and ready to go to the Cia because my chef went there and it was the best of best at the time; and eveni asked fir a letter of re went back got is master chef; and when I asked for a letter of recommendation; he told no your not going you want to learn; I said yes explained to him what I want and why I enjoy it. At this time I was a senior at unveristy of north Carolina; he said I will teach andyou wont waste money. Work under him fir two yearsand its paid off. If you work fir a good chef and haven a solid team around you; the goals you want are there for you to take.


----------



## twyst (Jan 22, 2012)

lbrax27 said:


> I was signed up and ready to go to the Cia because my chef went there and it was the best of best at the time; and eveni asked fir a letter of re went back got is master chef;


CMC exam is no joke, I didnt realize there were actual working chefs who bothered to try to get it anymore. There are only like 60 of them in the US, and most of them are culinary instructors from what Ive been told.


----------



## brandon odell (Aug 19, 2012)

foodpump said:


> Now, not trying to sound like a smart alec here, but.. "why"?
> 
> Why should a Chef show an employee all that he/she has learned during the course of their career?. Most Chefs and bakers that I know of will show employees stuff that only pertains to their job, and no more. Why? Simple: You're just training up your competition.
> 
> Not a romatic picture of an old hand showing the young one all the tricks of the trde is it? but an accuarate one..............


If a chef isn't willing to teach you, they are not a good chef so it doesn't really matter why. A great chef is one that has a passion not only for their food, but for their craft as a whole, their employees and their entire industry. A great chef is not so insecure as to think they are training their replacement if they teach their employees everything they can. THOSE chefs only get replaced when they move on by their own accord. "Training up your competition" is just an excuse used by chefs that are either too lazy or too insecure to be great themselves, and they aren't worth working for in the first place.


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Get a grip on reality........

Look, let's say I have a position open for a line cook,  pay @ X$/hr.  I'll turf the dude out if I have to show him/her how to temp a steak or explain to him/her that you have to get the pan hot and the oil hot before you put in a chix breast.  On the other hand I'll gladly show the salad guy those things and patiently explain to him/her the hows and whys.

Employees don't have a god-given right to have information spoon fed to them, they need to earn that right. I don't know how to make this point any clearer.

Let me put it to you another way.  Had a culinary student "attatched' to me for two weeks.  One day I got in a case of oranges and explained that I would be making marmalade with her.  Student was whinging the whole time.  From the one case of oranges we made 60 1/2 pint jars of marmalade that I sell at $5.00 a pop--you do the math of how much I made on that $25.00 case of oranges.  But that's not all, After the student had whinged and moaned all the way about peeling and blanching the orange peel 3 times, I candied the remainder of the peel--aprox 3 kg's worth.  If I buy candied peel from a supplier, it's around $6/ a kg diced and well over $10 whole or in strips.  I use my own peel  in my pastries and desserts and sell a lot of peel around October when customers ask and buy it for making fruit cake.   But that's still not all, I still have 4 liters (1 gallon) of intense orange flavoured syrup left over from the whole process.  When I worked in hotels the bartenders would go nuts over the syrup, and I would use it in sorbets and cakes as well.

I took the first whinging from the student good natured, and explained the process of making marmalade.  It was not well recieved. So I Shut up and just gave straight orders and explained the bare minimum.  Student had the opportunity to learn, and I would have gladly explained the process of  marmalade, of natural pectin, why the peel needs to be blanched so many times, of hot packing, and of candying peel.  But why bother if the student is whinging about "slave labour"  the whole time?

Same thing with another employee  when I get in my weekly case of whole chicken.  We boned out breasts and thighs, packed up bones into bags so that we could make fresh chicken stock daily, took all the fat and skin and rendered it down. The only thing that gets thrown out is the platic bag liner.  Employee couldn't care less, couldn't do the math on what kind of money I was saving over buying in boned out breasts and leg meat even with the labour factored in.  Frustrated at the process of putting together a hobart meat grinder and would't try to practice assembling it on thier own time.  No, I'm just a cheap stubborn s.o.b. for not buying in pre fab chicken.

I've been on this forum since the oh.. early 2003?  I have given out a tremendous amount of advice since then and continue to do so today, I don't do a lot of tutorials, but have a few picture tutorials to my credit.  I don't automatically dispense knowledge, but I will gladly give it out if asked.

Employees don't have a god -given right to be spoon fed information.

Training up the competition is another story, and when an employee takes a sudden interest on how you aquired this piece of equipment, or how much it cost, or how you got this account, or what criteria you need to open up a kitchen.........  Well then, you figure it out.


----------



## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

Well put foodpump.

I didn't go to culinary school but it is something I'm seriously considering for the experience. It will be part time studies at a community college, not a for profit cooking school.

My boss is the same way you are..if he knows his staff are willing to learn he is more than willing to take the time and explain things to us and teach/mentor us.


----------



## everydaygourmet (Apr 4, 2012)

Hello All,

also did not attend, did some research into a school while I lived outside of Baltimore but they refused to acknowledge any current experience as an owner operator. At that time had already been featured as a guest chef at various venues for among others "Rix Steak Lynchburg" way before JD had their commercial cooking products. So that experience was frustrating, consequently never looked back.

IMO, IF you want to kick the tires and investigate food service would look into food service employment. In western NY there were a bunch of seasonal banquet facilities that friends had "summered" with and found a direction or their calling. They seemed to always be looking for kitchen help due to the high volume demands Have to believe they are all over in the Northern section of the US.

Was personally involved @ 22 as an owner operator, not necessarily by choice (long story) so kind of a trial by fire. Both mom and dad enjoyed cooking, mom cooked, canned and baked from scratch everyday, don't think I had store bought bread till I was 9 or 10. Cooked my family a full thanksgiving dinner including having shopped for the all the necessaries by age 14, so guess it was just something that kind of evolved from having been there, done that to whats next?

All that being said, education imparts knowledge and is never a bad thing.

Knowledge offers horizons previously unknown.

How ever you get it, you need it whether formal or by experience.

Best to you and Cheers!

EDG


----------



## tonyy (May 29, 2013)

No I did not go to school. I thought about it and after speaking with C.I.A and Johnson and Wales coming out of culinary school pays low wages. But it depends where you work and what you do. When i mentioned that i make over 16 dollars an hour as a line cook they said i wouldnt get any where near that coming out of school. Plus eventually a lot of Chefs and cooks burn out. I didnt want to make the investment in schooling and burn out. But I am a line cook lol i have worked under a chef in the past its a lot slower paced and more layed back you can make way more money than i do as a line cook if you go to school eventually. you also need experience. I think the cost of culinary arts school is crazy. I would say get some experience and go to school.


----------



## cacioepepe (Apr 3, 2011)

There's nothing wrong with school. Education is important, of course. In America, I believe that the culinary school system is mostly a joke. I went to a Cordon Bleu program when I was 20, and although the information was valuable, I dont think that its given me an advantage over anyone else. I happened to succeed because I'm invested in the kitchen. I work hard. I learn. I ask the right questions and dont complain. You get what you put into it. If I could do it over again, I would take the thousands of dollars I spent on school and find a restaurant that would invest in me. Use the 'tuition' for rent and food, and spend all the time you can in a kitchen. That's your classroom, thats your job.

Don't get me wrong, my trail to education is unlike that of foodpump's. Most aren't as lucky to learn in such a regimented, well thought out manner. If there was the opportunity to go through that training at a young age, knowing that cooking is what I wanted to do when i was 15, that would have been great. Alas, thats not the norm for most people I know, especially in the USA. I value and appreciate the old techniques they teach you at school, but I cant tell you the last time I made a gallontine, aspic coated ____, or beef wellington.

Where I do disagree with foodpump is in the attitude of on the job education. No, its not necessarily the job of anyone in the kitchen to teach you anything. But a great kitchen, with great chefs, and good line cooks, education should spread like a sickness. Sure, I dont _have_ to teach you how to sear a steak properly, but if you show interest and absorb what I tell you and seem excited, I'll tell you all I know about searing, basting, resting and slicing meat. Why shouldn't I? We're in the business of food and it is ALWAYS a learning process. If you can't learn from your peers than whats the point? If your excited about your craft you should be more than happy to "train up your competition", whatever that's supposed to mean.

When the water rises, all boats float


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

cacio, I think you have me wrong.

An apprenticeship is NOT school.  Yes, you go to school one day per week, but it is not N. American style, ie "front end loading" where you are loaded up with knowledge and then let loose on an employer to learn how to move about in the kitchen, learn how to multi task, and learn how to think on your feet at the employer's expense.  An apprentice starts at the bottom, cleaning and salad making, veg prep, etc and paid far below minimum wage for the first two years. Only when you have mastered a technique are you shown another one, which is opposite of N.Americs schools in where you are shown many techniques, but not given time--supervised time-- to master them. 

I am happy--and have trained many people various techniques and tricks, and have imparted quite a bit of knowledge and encouraged to read up on things.  I have quite an extensive "working library" of books and encourage staff to borrow my books with the only criteria being to return the book back next day--you are welcome to borrow as many times as you want, but always return the book back the following day. I don't kow how many times J. Peterrson's "Sauces" has been photocopied..... 

But.... But,  Pi-- me off, and I won't show you anything, pi-- me off again and I'll ask you to leave.  Whine or moan, or totally ignore my commands (ie Do NOT put fresh kiwis, figs, or pineapple in any kind of gelatine dish) and you pi-- me off as well.  I won't waste time showing people like this stuff, but will gladly show people who are interested and make an effort to learn by themselves at home.


----------



## cacioepepe (Apr 3, 2011)

foodpump said:


> cacio, I think you have me wrong.
> 
> An apprenticeship is NOT school. Yes, you go to school one day per week, but it is not N. American style, ie "front end loading" where you are loaded up with knowledge and then let loose on an employer to learn how to move about in the kitchen, learn how to multi task, and learn how to think on your feet at the employer's expense. An apprentice starts at the bottom, cleaning and salad making, veg prep, etc and paid far below minimum wage for the first two years. Only when you have mastered a technique are you shown another one, which is opposite of N.Americs schools in where you are shown many techniques, but not given time--supervised time-- to master them.
> 
> ...


I understand that the apprenticeship is not school, which is exactly what I appreciate about it. I do agree with your points about the American culinary school system. Its a joke, but yet there is still positive to be taken away from it, regardless. Either way, I'm glad to hear that education of staff is of importance to you. After reading your post, I thought otherwise. I think our difference in opinion comes from th_e_ definition of being 'spoon fed' information. If someone doesn't understand why you would peel, blanch, cook and candy your citrus to make a good product, and a profit, then thats definitely their mistake to learn a basic technique thats relevant. Thats on the employee/student. Its up to you/me/owners/chefs to cultivate people who _want_ to learn these sorts of things; from breaking down whole chickens to cleaning shrimp to shucking bushels of oysters.

And are you advising KaiqueKuisine to go to school, in the tradition sense, or are you advising him/her to get an apprenticeship?


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

I don't know if Brazil has apprenticeships available.  As I wrote in my original post, education is important and some kind of schooling is needed if Kaique wants to cooking to be the back bone of her career.

I guess there might be some confusion to "spoonfed".The attitude and way of doing things in Europe and many other parts of the world are a bit different, you are expected to work for the information, for example:

One of the first duties of a first year apprentice is getting the soup garnishes ready, tommorow there's Consomme Diablotin.  S/he can ask the chef de partie or Sous, but will be told to find out for themselves, and for this purpose there's usually several books available.  Once the apprentice knows what the garnish is, they will be instructed on how it is done in that kitchen--i.e with parmesan and cayenne, cut in lozange pieces at such a size.  So almost always the person showing the technique will want to know how much the learner knows about the subject, wants to know if the learner will work for the information, or just takes and takes, and never puts any effort in learning on their own time.

And this way of teaching is common in almost all of the kitchens in Europe, as well as many other kitchens I've worked in, run by Americans, Australians, Malaysians, S'poreans, and Japanese.  A tremendous amount knowledge and tehcniques are shown and explained--some of it in great detail,  but the one showing is expecting the one learning to work for this information.


----------



## kaiquekuisine (Apr 11, 2013)

foodpump said:


> I don't know if Brazil has apprenticeships available. As I wrote in my original post, education is important and some kind of schooling is needed if Kaique wants to cooking to be the back bone of her career.
> 
> I guess there might be some confusion to "spoonfed".The attitude and way of doing things in Europe and many other parts of the world are a bit different, you are expected to work for the information, for example:
> 
> ...


Im actually in an apprenticeship now.

After finishing highschool , i did 2 culinary courses , along wiht an extra course in wine. I ended up finding a job as a front of the house operator and expiditor for an amazing restaurant , basically the owner knew i wanted to cook , so after a week there salad chef quit and i ended up doing 4 hours in the kitchen from 7-11 am working and being mentored by the head chef , while from 11-3pm im working int he front of the house , doing who knows what lol. From 3-4pm we are doing prep and cleaning.

Basically im not an idiot int he kitchen because i have kitchen experience but i feel this situation that im currently in is favorable to me , since i have a great chef who mentors me . im learning alot , being paid to cook only 4 hours a day , while still getting front of the house , and management experience. Basically i did one full month on pantry and salad prep , and now i work the line 4 hours a day , ( obviously im only responsible for 2 entrees a day out of the 18 available because im not the fastest ). Aside from the low amount of entrees im doing this week they attempt to increase one entree a week for me so basically in around 3 months ill be responible for 12 entrees ( which is the limit ) , while one of the cooks goes on a 1 month off work.


----------



## chef daveed (Feb 20, 2013)

I don't think it matters much whether you go to or went to a culinary school or trained under a chef outside of culinary school. What it takes more than school or tutoring is passion! You can go to the best school and train under the best chef's in the world, but if you don't have a passion for food, you're dead before you start. The love for the kitchen has to be in you, has to be part of your makeup, it can't be taught. Attaining the title takes nothing less than all you've got to give for hours on end in hot, sometimes unpleasant conditions, but at the end of the day you leave with a smile on your face and a feeling of accomplishment. If you don't, you're in the wrong profession.


----------



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

I went .I learned a little but I stayed extra every day to go to trade classes at night where I really learned because all the people were in the business.


----------



## brasschef (Jun 10, 2012)

As a current Johnson and Wales student, I can't claim to have complete knowledge of this, but I can tell you what I do know. I've realized looking around at some of the alumni I've seen that the degree itself is fairly meaningless. What isn't, however, is the amount of resources at your disposal from within the school. If you're willing to take a few extra steps, talk to people outside of class, and make use of everything outside of the main curriculum, there are quite a few doors it can open to you (or so it seems to me.) 

Basicallly:

Don't go just to add a degree to your resume - do it with the intent of learning things. If you don't know what you want to get out of it, or what you want to do afterwards, you'll be wasting your time and money. Make use of everything available to you there and make sure you're continuing to learn on your own and not just what your being taught. Make sure you have actual restaurant experience to back up your education (this one appears vital....your current job sound like a great place to stay for a while before considering school.) Of course...this is all operating under the assumption that you wish to go to a school. Don't feel pressured to, because as you can see from the many experienced chefs before me it's by no means a necessity. however, know that there are ways it can help you, and doors it can open for those willing to try.


----------



## brandon odell (Aug 19, 2012)

foodpump said:


> Get a grip on reality........
> 
> Look, let's say I have a position open for a line cook, pay @ X$/hr. I'll turf the dude out if I have to show him/her how to temp a steak or explain to him/her that you have to get the pan hot and the oil hot before you put in a chix breast. On the other hand I'll gladly show the salad guy those things and patiently explain to him/her the hows and whys.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what your post has to do with me getting a grip on reality, it doesn't really make a point against or for anything I said, but whatever's clever.

You obviously don't have a problem teaching people, and I don't know where the "spoonfeeding" comments are even coming from, no one suggested hiring people who don't know how to cook. My point is, any chef that refuses to teach their employees anything other than what is absolutely necessary to do their job is too insecure to be a great chef anyways and not worth working for.

Great chefs teach all they can. That doesn't mean they hire unqualified people and "spoonfeed" them until they can cook, on the contrary, great chefs should be able to pick and choose those that already know how to cook well enough to perform the job. What they are teaching are advanced techniques, or even management processes or leadership. Great chefs produce great chefs. I have two chefs working for me now who came out of a kitchen with a great chef. They are great employees. Not only did they have to be at a certain level before they worked for one of the best chefs in the region who is also a James Beard award winner, but they learned a lot while working for that chef too because that chef was a great teacher. Then, they were ready to move into a position where they get to cook their food instead of someone elses, and have a greater opportunity to express themselves through their food, not to mention to make 50% more money.

I'm not going to be able to teach my girls and guys what they learned under their mentor chef. I am not a "great chef". I do consider myself a "great business person" however, and I will do all I can to teach my employees everything I know about growing a business, giving them the skills and tools to take their next step up when the time is right. Rather than fret about the potential competition, I wear it as a badge of honor when one of my former employees goes on to be successful in their own right, then I'll find more like them and repeat the process. That's what a great boss does, "chef" or otherwise. Thank god the two of my employees who shared a mentor worked for someone with a similar attitude. They were never a threat to take her job, they make great employees for me, and so will her future employees when they too are ready to take the next step up.


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

What I mean by spoon feeding is giving information to employees that don't respond to it, don't ask questions, don't use the information, and basically don't give a hoot.


----------



## hpross (Feb 5, 2013)

I went to culinary school (LCB London). When there i realized that it was a total toss up for a good vs. bad experience. For some reason only 20 people enrolled. The class before had 120 and the class after had 180. So we had alot of  supervision. When i went to other classes to catch up on lectures the difference was huge. I hated the big classes. The chefs were so busy and questions were alot more difficult to ask, due to the numbers.

The saving grace for me was that my chefs had all earned Michelin stars in classic french cuisine and boy they could cook. And when i was in my core class (which i was in for 90% of the time), everyone got along and there were 3 other guys had cooked before. So we began competing against each other, we pushed hard, we raised each others game. More than that we saw each others style and the way they worked through their mise en place lists.

When i was done there, my chefs got me stages at 3 different Michelin restaurants, something they didn't have to do. Now I send them updates of my progress, and serve as part of my  knowledge base. Those 3 guys... one of them has become a great friend whom i will know for the rest of my life.

It comes down to what you do to get out of it. Much like foodpump says - information is given to those who ask. Find a school that has accomplished chefs, with a history in successful kitchens that have bred successful chefs.  Or a kitchen with the same criteria. The most important thing is the personal drive to better yourself and the will to ask questions.

Culinary school allowed me to study french food, from french chefs and lay on 2 years of pent up questions and get up to 5 head chefs giving me answers. In that it succeeded immensely, i learned so many little tips, tricks and timesavers. Would it have been able to set me up for the real world... of course not. There is only one real world. Think of it as a law student going to law school - you do lots of case law, and a couple mock trials BUT it does not make you a competent lawyer.

It all comes down to intent and purpose. Why are you going to school? What will a culinary degree accomplish? Will the fees leave you in debt? Have you tried to work in a kitchen even for a few weeks?


----------



## truclynguyen (Feb 20, 2017)

Every job has pros and cons, but it won't stop you if you want to chase your dream. I love baking and want to go back to school to become a professional pastry chef even though I have 4 years degree and have been working in doctor office since 2008.


----------



## chef brah (Oct 10, 2016)

i have heard very good things about international culinary centre.

they also have these 6 month courses which are more pragmatic than 3 year long degrees from CIA.

and also provide externship.

in my case, i have done most of my cooking from home and less than a year of restaurant experience and i got into cooking after quitting my career in marketing...so yes i definitely need some sort of certification.

but if u started very young , i think you must have built lot of work experience by now


----------



## chef brah (Oct 10, 2016)

foodpump said:


> Now, not trying to sound like a smart alec here, but.. "why"?
> 
> Why should a Chef show an employee all that he/she has learned during the course of their career?. Most Chefs and bakers that I know of will show employees stuff that only pertains to their job, and no more. Why? Simple: You're just training up your competition.
> 
> Not a romatic picture of an old hand showing the young one all the tricks of the trde is it? but an accuarate one..............


i was lucky to be assigned a chef who taught me a lot and went above and beyond and taught me how to make cakes and breads

i can do a lot on pan but breads and pastry is my weak area .

he didnt worry about me becoming better than him but just wanted a top performing team

i guess not everyone is lucky to have such a chef


----------



## georgev (Feb 21, 2017)

foodpump said:


> Hi Kaique,
> 
> If you are serious about cooking as a career, then the answer is yes, you need school.
> 
> ...


You need certification! - I totally agree, going to culinary school is a must.... that is if you want to make it big.


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Chef Brah said:


> i was lucky to be assigned a chef who taught me a lot and went above and beyond and taught me how to make cakes and breads
> 
> i can do a lot on pan but breads and pastry is my weak area .
> 
> ...


Thats not quite the context I was talking about. If you are better than me, it will show, and nothing will stop you from becoming better than me. No issues with that, I don't get jealous of people with more talent than me.

However, if you imitate everything I've shown you, and work for someone else or yourself and under price me, or set up shop across the street from me, then you are my competition, and I only have myself to blame for putting in so much effort to show you things only to have it bite me back in the butt.

O.T.O.H, if you have taken everything I've shown you, analyzed it, digested it, and applied that knowledge to what you are doing currently, which is not imitating my style, then I have taught you well, and I take pride in that fact.

My business motto is very simple, and it has served me well for over 20 years and two businesses, it goes like this:

If Johnny across the street is selling apples, I want to sell oranges. Neither of us are the competing for the same dollar, and we can both charge what is necessary to keep our respective businesses going.

Hope this clarifies things


----------



## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

georgev said:


> You need certification! - I totally agree, going to culinary school is a must.... that is if you want to make it big.


Nobody told Thomas Keller.

Everyday on the job can be viewed as attending culinary school for the day. Not all education takes place in a formalized pay for environment.

I have nothing against culinary school. I graduated from one.

I have nothing against certifications. I have a few.

Certifications will not keep a job for you.


----------



## chefrobbie (Feb 21, 2017)

Just work in great places and surround yourself with decent chefs to learn from, not cowboys. Cook school teaches you only half what u need. Techniques and recipes are great but u can't learn how to handle service and pressure at school. Without learning that u could have all the technical knowledge in the world but be useless in real life. Repetition is the key to getting quicker and nailing your prep. Stay at work and bollox to the qualifications. Read books on your days off instead.


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Yeah-butt....
"bollox the qualifications" I do have a problem with. 

I've talked with enough H.R. people who feel that qualifications are the only way to assess a potential hire. To use your words, this is utter "bollox", (the only way to properly assess is to watch the guy in his/her first shift or two) but the thing is, H.R. almost always has final say to the Chef's choice before you can be hired. It ain't fair, but it is very typical of most H.R. Depts, and the places that do have H.R. dept's are the places you can really pick up skills and watch real professionals move about.

I also would have never got financial loans for my businesses or got my leases signed without any qualifications to back me up.

So I have to disagree with that part of your post. But the rest is pretty much bang on.


----------



## chefrobbie (Feb 21, 2017)

Ok I'll give u that. It will hold you back from some things, visa applications being one of them. 

As a business owner i don't even look at qualifications. I'm more interested in work history and attitude. I get chefs in for a trial and it doesn't take me long to evaluate their skills.


----------



## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

You are looking for cooks.  Qualifications help people being leaders.  If your starting your own business banks and investors want qualifications.  They don't care if you held a line cook job for twenty years.


----------



## everydaygourmet (Apr 4, 2012)

*Those that never went to culinary school,*

*Heston Blumenthal*, owner and head chef of The Fat Duck in Bray, Berks, UK 3rd Michelin star in four years - the shortest time for such an accolade

*Heston* is one of only 2 chefs without formal training to receive Michelin Stars the other being:

*Alvin Leung, the 'Demon Chef' *spent 20 years as an engineer, then 9 years ago with no prior training, he opened Bo Innovation, holding 2 Michelin stars.

*Charlie Trotter, * 2 Michelin Star rating.with many James Beard awards. *Thomas Keller, * 3-star Michelin restaurant, *Tom Colicchio*, never went to culinary school, and has five James Beard awards *Ina Garten, F*irst worked in the White House as a nuclear policy analyst. *Jamie Oliver*

Don't forget, Le Cordon Bleu to closed all 16 culinary schools in the U.S. because students complained about being misled by the school on job prospects after graduating. Further told they were chefs, which proved to be very wrong, so that sheep skin is not worth the sheep it's written on.

Education is something, a place to start, Experience, willingness to continue to learn, drive/work ethic, passion, positive attitude and humility is Everything,

Show up early, be ready to work, your ass off and remember you're part of a team, repeat.


----------



## jaykayjay431 (Feb 23, 2017)

I have to say I attended a culinary course at the local community college. Thought it would be the best way for me to learn. I only paid for materials and my uniform, the education was free. (Thank the lord it wasn't $50,000+) Paid about $450 out of pocket, but given enough time to gather materials, feels like I didn't pay anything at all. 

I took the course twice and got to work with both chefs (both with different styles of cook. One growing up with the classic French cuisine, and older gentleman. The other Chef was in her late 20's and graduating with a masters in culinary science.) I learned a lot from both chefs in the sense of being a professional chef. Flavors, hygiene, discipline, teamwork, etc. I also really honed in on my knife skills and learned all the basic/ advanced cuts.

After about 3 months of the program when we started cooking I would begin to lose interest and focus. I would stop showing up to class and eventually dropped out of the program. With having the knowledge of the business side, and the skill of cooking my chef has presented to me, at the beginning of the week, the opportunity to become the Sous Chef at our location.

School is for the one that can sit there and pay attention to lectures and don't understand the professionalism inside a kitchen, almost for a novice cook. I did learn a lot in the school and I would never trade it for anything, but do research and find out where you're going. There are other certificate programs the Community colleges offer that will give you the skills needed, it just has to be on you to hone into the skills on your own time.

-


----------



## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

It's a touchy subject.  I graduated from a 2 year school in Palm Beach in 2000.  So I received a A.A. in Culinary Arts.  Not once in the last 17 years was I asked to prove anything.  Culinary school is what you make of it.  It's a business there to make money.  You can learn things if you choose or you can graduate not knowing the difference between oregano or thyme.  I worked at a ski resort and 70% of my staff were externs.

Unfortunatly the way the world is going a degree will get you more job opportunities (at least interviews)  I always am looking online out of curisoty for new jobs.  Every year I see more jobs with "Culinary degree required" .  That never exhisted 15 years ago.  Since food network came out and being a chef became cool in the late 90's/early 2000's there is a lot more competition for young chefs.  That's when all the fly by night Culinary schools started popping up in every city. 

On the flip side, the cost of going to CIA and J & W is absoultly insane unless you have wealthy parents or are loaded yourself.  With a chefs salary you will be paying it off for the rest of your life!!!!  The US has the most f#cked up system for young collage kids looking for an education.  Nothing like starting your life at 22 years old making 10 bucks an hour with over 100,000.00 dollars of debt in student loans!!!  Unfortunatly culinary degrees are the norm now.  Kind of like having a collage degree 30-40 years ago.  When an employer has 50 resumes and 45 went to collage/culinary school who do you think gets weeded out first.  It sucks but thats how it is.

It all depends on what you want in your future.  Small private restaurants don't really need a degree.  Big corporate/ hotels/ resorts/ chains ect. ect.  You will move up higher if you have a degree.  If I were you I would find a smaller Culinary school or one that has closed (cough:::  Le cordon Blue).  Do your research.  Find a friend really good at computers and make a quality fake diploma and save 50 to 100 grand. Like I said " after 17 years no one ever asked to see my diploma"!  Work and learn proper culinary techniques.


----------



## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

I went to culinary school for education. I went to expand my foundation, my knowledge, and my skills. I got what I went for and along the way I got a piece of paper. I went to culinary school with some people who went for the piece of paper. They got what they went for. It is kinda like work. I work to challenge and push myself. I work to expand, refine, and hone my skills and knowledge. I get what I want and along the way I get a paycheck. I work with some people that work for a paycheck. They get what they want. We make our choices and results are a reflection of those choices.


----------



## chefross (May 5, 2010)

I must prefix this in saying that this is not always the case but......

For everyone of the famous celebrity Chefs that did not go to culinary school there are countless more Chefs and cooks that are as good as they.

They work tirelessly day after day not even remotely interested in fame or fortune.

Money isn't everything.

Some would say that these celebrity Chefs "sold out" to the almighty dollar.

They were discovered, groomed, and choreographed, for your television entertainment.

Their food at their respective restaurants was not theirs alone, as many times it is a collaborative effort with all cooks involved.

As for culinary schools......it's the person not the education.

How many of you have attended school and watched your peers in class?

Were they attentive?

While in the kitchen, did you notice others slacking or completely unable to complete a task in the time allotted?

Did these lacky's graduate with you?

Sure they did.

What we see come through the door with resume in hand are some of these people I mentioned above.

You can detect how they will perform in just an hour or so watching them work. 

Culinary school is a personal choice, however the business world is a different story altogether.


----------



## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

Chefross said:


> I must prefix this in saying that this is not always the case but......
> 
> For everyone of the famous celebrity Chefs that did not go to culinary school there are countless more Chefs and cooks that are as good as they.
> 
> ...


ChefRoss pretty much said it. Hard work ethic will always take you farther than a piece of paper. That's why cooking is cool. The last no bull shit profession in the world!


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

A-yup, the last no-bullsh*t profession in the world... 

Also one of the very few professions in N. America where the pay is typically below or hovering on the poverty line, and also one of the very few professions in N. America where there is no industry standard, and no recognized qualification. (Yes the schools put out their hunk o'paper, but that doesn't mean any one else--including other schools or Gov't bodies recognize that qualification)


----------



## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

foodpump said:


> A-yup, the last no-bullsh*t profession in the world...
> 
> Also one of the very few professions in N. America where the pay is typically below or hovering on the poverty line, and also one of the very few professions in N. America where there is no industry standard, and no recognized qualification. (Yes the schools put out their hunk o'paper, but that doesn't mean any one else--including other schools or Gov't bodies recognize that qualification)


Thats why I work on yachts! Work smarter not harder!


----------



## chefrobbie (Feb 21, 2017)

hookedcook said:


> Thats why I work on yachts! Work smarter not harder!


How do u get into that?


----------



## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

ChefRobbie said:


> How do u get into that?


 There are crew agencies. Mostly based out of Ft. Lauderdale. If your single with no ties it's really the best cooking job in the world. Cook for 4-10 guests. No budget and catch or spear fresh fish. You live on the boat so no bills. I take at least 4 months off a year and travel.


----------



## chef brah (Oct 10, 2016)

if you started cooking at a young age in a professional environment, i dont think you need to go to culinary school.

but if someone started very late like myself in mid 20's...culinary school will cover up for lack of professional experience

dont get me wrong..i have been cooking since i was 20 but as a home chef or more as a strong hobby.


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

O.K., how will culinary school make up for "lack of professional experience"?

If there's one thing most employers can agree on, its the fact that culinary schools do not provide the repetition needed to master a certain skill


----------



## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

foodpump said:


> O.K., how will culinary school make up for "lack of professional experience"?


Better yet, how will it " cover up" for lack of professional experience? Professional experience can't be faked and lack of can't be covered up. The only substitute I know of for professional experience is..._oh that's right, there isn't one!_


----------



## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

The culinary program I went to was education not how to be a professional chef the first day out of school  The head of the department told us the first day his job was to educate us and expose us to all the aspects of cooking and restaurant management.  When we went on the job the chef would teach us how to do the job and gain experience.. .


----------



## rpooley (Dec 1, 2015)

Well, if I've learned anything from this thread, forum, and many of the comments, there's not much difference between being a medical intern and being a newbie in the culinary world (except for the degree requirement maybe), so I think I will be fine.

Thanks for all the comments.  Everyone sure has their own experience.


----------



## brotyang (Mar 3, 2017)

I've just graduated from high school and have an interview in the coming week for scholarships where culinary arts is an option. If y'all could be kind enough to advise if following the dream I had since I was 12 years old, is worth it or not? I've read a zillion posts here and am more confused than I was.


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Hey Bro Tyang,

If you read the posts and threads on this subject, then you must have read the one standard piece of advice I have given everyone who asked about the very thing:

Get a job in the kitchen.  Yes you will be washing dishes, maybe plating salads. So what?  Every one of us has started out this way.  Work for a few months, see if you like it. 

Benefits of this "tactic"  are:

-No money spent

-No student loans

-Money earned

-Practical work experience earned

-Opportunity to see for yourself if this trade is for you

-Opportunity to see what kind of pay ranges are out there.

Then, and only then, if you like the work, sign up for culinary school.

I can't think of any negatives to this "tactic" except maybe postponing culinary school for another year---which really is a plus, since you would have practical work experience when you start school and would be that much more ahead of classmates.

Could you show this post to your parents?   They need to know what's going on.


----------



## whitepnoi (Mar 3, 2017)

I did not go to culinary school. I washed dishes for a long time, prep cool, breakfast,lunch,dinner cook... I climbed the ladder the past 11 years and now I am a Sous Chef. From what I have heard Culinary Arts will not prepare you for working the line as far as managing pressure & the stress..Best way to find out is be thrown in the fire and see if you survive.


----------



## inabox (Nov 27, 2006)

I'll share my trip on the food road.

I started out washing dishes at age 16. After a few months I was on the line cooking after school and on weekends. It was awsome.

Highschool was just about over and after reviewing my options I decided on an apprenticeship. (this is one of a few paths available in canada)

I asked my employer if he would sponsor me as an apprentice. He said yes. What that meant was he had to hold my job when I left for school. To complete the apprenticeship I needed 6000 hours of cooking work, a cook 2 certificate from an approved college and completion of a skills trade book.

School was offered as ether block release witch means you go to school 5 days a week from September thru December for 2 years and work the rest of the time. (you get unemployment during this time) OR part time school witch meant classes 2 days a week from September thru June for 2 years. 

I took part time.

Now I was a Rockstar at work. When I got to work I found out fast that I knew jack shit. It opened my eyes to the fact that there was so much more out there then my small kitchen.


----------



## wvman2374 (Nov 11, 2012)

EverydayGourmet said:


> *Those that never went to culinary school,*
> 
> *Heston Blumenthal*, owner and head chef of The Fat Duck in Bray, Berks, UK 3rd Michelin star in four years - the shortest time for such an accolade
> 
> ...


I'd add Marco Pierre White to your list. 3-stars at the age of 33, and no culinary school.

My two cents on the rest of it all is that most of the "big name" schools are not worth the expense (this is true of universities in the US in general nowadays). But there are plenty of community college programs for a fraction of the cost that will provide a solid education. Actual working experience is far more important however, but if you can get into a program for a reasonable cost then I wouldn't overlook it. And my experience working with culinary grads is that they are pretty 50/50 on being very good or completely worthless. And by that I mean having-to-teach-them-to-use-a-knife-properly worthless. thats not at all an exaggeration.

Under no circumstances however should you go into debt more than 10K for a culinary education. At that point the expense starts to far exceed the benefit.


----------



## Boulbul (Jul 29, 2017)

Hello there,

Can any one please tell me where I can get a good value course either in France, Italy or Germany to learn nougat or Popcorn gourmey making so I can open a small production line?


I have looked for a long time but no chance so far.


Many thanks....


Boulbul.


----------



## linecookliz (Jun 8, 2017)

I'm in the same boat. All of the cooks and chefs that I have met that went to culinary school seem a lot more confident vs those whom didn't. I signed up for a morning course at the local community college. They have a great culinary program. Just take one course and see if it helps. If it doesn't then there's your answer. Good luck!


----------



## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

I have serious doubts that Thomas Keller, Ferran Adrià, Heston Blumenthal, and René Redzepi; lack confidence. I know they all have serious chops, and my respect.


----------



## whiskytango (Apr 24, 2011)

after 15 years of cooking I went to culinary school. I met my wife there (cooking schools a great place to meet girls). In my after my red seal year the chef told us there was a head chef opening at a local restaurant and i was basically handed the job because of the recommendation of the instructor to the owner (who was a former student). 6 months later i bought the restaurant and now 3 great years later (many generic new owner struggles) im looking to sell to go work in an upscale hotel as it will help me get my CCC and become a chef instructor till i retire. 

i know im lucky and i never forget that! But it does create opportunities to go to school for sure. I recommend it.


----------



## kaiquekuisine (Apr 11, 2013)

So funny to see how this thread is still active, after my starting it more then 4 years ago.

So let me update it with some info.
I didn´t go to culinary school. I continued my mentoring for that year, i worked, at a place or 2, or 3, then i took a break. Did a few gigs, worked a bit more, returned to the industry about 2 years ago.

I did however get some type of formal education. I went to trade school. In my country trade school exists for those who want some practical experience in a specific trade/work area. Well it was cheaper, and a bit more hands-on. So invested in that.
I kept on cooking, went to trade school, did a few courses here and there, and this year i went back to school to do some learning in restaurant managemant.

Even though most of my inicial professional experience was achieved without me having anytype of formal education, today 4, almost 5 years later I do recommend getting some type of formal education. Maybe you aren´t into the idea of a long and expensive journey that involves going to culinary school, but other methods do exist.

I staged, i went to trade trade school, i got experience etc....
Today if i go to an interview, most of the interviewers/employers don´t look so much at my resume, the majority just put me on the line and see what i got, but i live in a town where i have already worked for a lot of restaurants, i know a few people and i more or less have some connections.

But i am very thankful for the connections i made in school, for the people i met, what i learned, and if someone such as an interviewer or future employer asks, if i have some type of basic formal education, well i can answer that i do, and i have the document to prove it, so it just makes getting my foot in the door alot easier. Plus education is never enough.

Especially involving certain things such as restaurant management and the business aspect of the restaurant world. You can work years on the line, but depending on the position and what a title will require you to do, having some type of education is only beneficial. I´m pretty content with the investments i made, and today i have a better understanding of the business side of the industry, which is always a plus, especially when you have the intention of growing and who knows starting something of your own.

Today, if i could, i would have probably told my younger self, "go to school, period." "Go get sometype of education and don´t wait too long to get it, experience is great, but having a certificate, a document, or education gives you more credibility."

All forms of education are valid, learning is great and in our industry and in any industry, the more you know and the more you learn, the better you are and the better you become.

When i had started this thread, i was 18, confused, a bit of a noob in the kitchen, who by chance had some talent and a knack for working the line.
Today at 22 (23 next month) almost 5 years down the line, i can say that i have grown, thanks to the chefs, the cooks, and experience i aquired, but i can also thank that i did invest on sometype of education, and that i didn´t just give up on school entirely. I met some cool people in school, it helped a lot in making a better resume for myself and it helped me grow professionaly and as a human being.

Do i plan on going to culinary school to do some long course? Probably not, i have been in the business now for some years, i cook, handle the stress and pressure of the kitchen fine without culinary school. I had a great mentor, who was willing to invest her time on me and teach me as much as possible.

Do i plan on learning, doing some more courses or getting a degree related to something else in the industry? Definitely. I love to cook and who knows, maybe i´ll apply for business/managment, maybe tourism, or maybe nutrition, who knows, but i definitely plan on continuing to invest on my education.

I do not plan, nor do i think that my body could handle another 20-30 years of working on the hot line, and since i love working with food, i know that anytype of education can lead to me working with food in a variety of forms. I love to cook, but i don´t plan on being a line cook for the rest of my life .


----------

