# Crazy yes, but determined



## flashinthepan (Apr 8, 2008)

First, I hope I will not have upset this particular forum within Chef Talk by posting this post. I felt though that this was the best place to post my question.
My wife and I are visiting friends in the south of France in late June, St Tropez area to be more precise. My wife loves to cook, the friends who we are visiting (they live in Paris and spend time in the St. Tropez area off and on during the summer) are Parisian, and are very good cooks. There will also be two other lovely Parisian friends of theirs who will be there at the same time and THEY are pretty darn good in the kitchen. Every time we visit them it's a culinary experience, my role though is just going along to the markets and carring bags. 
What I want to do is cook one complete meal for the six of us, me alone, no help. I think it makes sense to suggest that I work with what is in season in their area and to prepare a meal that has roots in the South of France. Can I pull something like this off and in the time frame I have to prepare? I think I can, but I'm going to need help. As far as working with my wife on this I'd like to compare that idea with driving with your father in preparation for a driver's test, not a great idea. What I would really like to do is work with a local chef here in Toronto who would teach me how to prepare and cook this one off meal for six! Is that a possibility, or am I nuts? Is it possible that the ingredients that are native to the South of France can be found here? 
When I was single I was quite comfortable in the kitchen, I know I can do this, but I need help.
Thank you for any ideas.

Mario


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Don't think just because a forum is for general cooking questions that you cannot get great advice there.

OK, so you can't cook and now you want to go to the South of France and bust out the moves? 

My advice is to just learn to cook. Learn how to handle ingredients and learn the preferred preparation methods. For example, lettuce is for salad, you don't saute it right? What about persimmons? Start simple, learn how to handle your ingredients and you should be fine. Roast a chicken. Learn to saute chicken breast. Deglaze the pan, and make a simple pan sauce.


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## flashinthepan (Apr 8, 2008)

"OK, so you can't cook and now you want to go to the South of France and bust out the moves?"

Kuan, that mad me laugh out loud! 

I hear what you're saying, and what you say makes sense, but I just have 2 months. How I use these 2 months to prepare is I guess the big question.

Is it crazy for me to think that I can pay a chef to work with me in order to produce my "Big Night"?


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## flashinthepan (Apr 8, 2008)

My wife watches just about every type cooking show out there. I'm just thinking that there has never been a show where a single or group of individuals had to start out from scratch (no real knowledge of cooking) and create a meal within a certain time frame for a group of professionals. Yes there's Top Chef, but those are experienced chefs. If some enterprising chef reads this and creates a series around the concept don't forget to say where you got the idea.


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## cakesbysarah (Apr 7, 2008)

I'm probably going to get flogged for going off-topic following your tangent... but... I think that's an awesome idea! Pitting non-pros against professionals... kinda like a reverse- "Throwdown" concept, but maybe more Iron Chef-ish in nature. We should talk to the Food Network and become millionaires... LOL

As for myself, I'm basically self-taught with the help of my grandmother (she teaches Wilton decorating classes to ladies at her church), so I'm far from "pro" in the sense that I've never gone to culinary school, but I'm trying out the entrepreneurial thing right now and loving it. 

One book I would recommend, if you can get your hands on it, is "Professional Cooking" by Wayne Gisslen. It's got a lot of step-by-step instructions on foodservice in general (it's part of the culinary arts curriculum at several institutions) and it's centered around the classic French methods of cooking. Has a lot of simple recipes with recommendations for variations, and I'm sure you'll find something that your guests will enjoy. Also, if you have a creative spirit and *some* food knowledge, it gives you a great jumping-off point for several dishes. I found my copy at a library book sale; I might suggest checking your local college for availability of a used copy (new they are EXPENSIVE).

I'm interested to see how it turns out! Keep us posted


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## shakeandbake (Feb 24, 2007)

Bon Appetit magazine has been doing a series each month called "Cooking Club". They present a theme and then layout how to prepare everything with simple and exact instruction. February was "Earth Friendly Dinner for 6" and I believe the previous month was Thai. They break it down for you: Starters, Main & Sides, Desert and Drinks. Instruction includes what you can prepare ahead of time, etc.

Check the BA website or go to a library and look through back issues. There might be something that you can use. You should plan on using fresh seafood and that will be easy to buy fresh and can be simple to prepare. Food doesn't have to be complicated to make it special.

I believe everyone can cook. Personally, I would look for a cookbook, check these out. If you have some time and money, you could take a cooking class with Patrica Wells.


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## flashinthepan (Apr 8, 2008)

It seems CakesBySarah that almost anything goes these days when it comes to television programing, so this variation could be the next big hit! lol I have to tell this board that my wife watches just about all food related programming on television, as well she subscribes to a number of magazines and of course not to mention the books, oh my gosh...the books! I think there's been 1 cookbook delivery per week since we've been married, need to reinforce the floor below the library. Oh, and let's not forget all of the printing of recipes from foodnetwork.com. Okay, I'm not complaining, my wife truly loves her kitchen and she loves to cook, that makes me so very happy...and I love her cooking. By the way I enjoy some of that TV stuff as well. 

Thanks for your suggestions.


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## flashinthepan (Apr 8, 2008)

Thank you shakeandbake, I'm going to look for those specific Bon Appetit articles and also I will look for Professional Cooking" by Wayne Gisslen that CakesBySarah suggested. I'm getting excited. I'm going to pull this off, I'm very determined.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

First buy some books. First get Escoffier's book "Le Guide Culinaire" in English. I just saw a reprint at B&N. Then get Joy of Cooking and read the sections on ingredients. That should get you started.

Week 1

1) Learn to saute, deglaze, and make a pan sauce.

2) Learn to roast, deglaze, and make a pan sauce.

A combination of the two is saute or searing, finish in oven, deglazing and making a pan sauce.

3) Learn to make a roast chicken stock by following the method for making veal stock, but let the stock simmer for four hours.

4) Learn to reduce stock.

So first, try Chicken Marsala. Next, do a roast chicken (learn how to truss it and roast until it's properly done) and make a mushroom sauce.

Next, read http://www.cheftalk.com/forums/food-...than-norm.html

Next learn to make veal stock. If you want you can use chicken bones first if your veal bones don't arrive at the butcher in time.

All of that should take about a week if you're good and focused.


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## chef norm (Apr 3, 2008)

If it was possible to learn, in two months, to cook well enough to impress Semi-Pro French Cooks, then all of us lifers would have to hang up our spats and find another profession. People go to restaurants because it's easier (and maybe even cheaper) than learning to handle food properly. Good luck! You'll need it!


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## shakeandbake (Feb 24, 2007)

It's not like he's trying to start a restaurant or become a private chef. The guys just wants to cook a meal for 6 people. FIRST STEP: be confident you can do it. Today, all around the world, meals are being prepared by common folk and enjoyed with friends and families. Making a good meal is not rocket science.

If you want to keep your project a secret from your wife, find a friend who likes to eat and/or cook and get them to work on this with you. Go over to their house twice a week and prepare one dish to start and expand it from there. The worst thing you can do is make something that doesn't taste good, toss it and learn.


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## flashinthepan (Apr 8, 2008)

Chef Norm, I hear you.

I don't want anyone to feel that I'm making light of this wonderful art form by my idea. I have a tiny idea of what it takes to make it in your industry, I can only imagine that it's probably one of the toughest paths to follow.

If I can suggest to the board this idea, and ask for your thoughts. I should mention that I have told my wife that I want to do this, but on my own. Her face lit up when she heard, then she started drinking...just kidding. I actually have some skills, I have followed recipes in the past...but well in the past. It might make more sense for me to define the menu first, then as shakeandbake suggests, do it over and over until I get it right. I can do it here in my own kitchen...whoops, my wifes kitchen, and also as shakeandbake suggested at a friends house. Also, I'm thinking that this will be a meal where everything is placed on the table at one time...then I yell Come in git it!... En Francaise. I envision myself beginning to work early in the morning preparing while the 5 guinea pigs are working at the beach. Yes, they will be tempted to stay and eat at Club 55 (famous beach club restaurant) but guilt will set in and they will do the right thing. St Tropez has a quite a nice selection of shops, I gather that what I will need I will be able to buy the day before the meal, leaving only things that should only be bought on the day of...bread and so on. Dessert? Yikes!!


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## flashinthepan (Apr 8, 2008)

Chef Norm, I hear you.

I don't want anyone to feel that I'm making light of this wonderful art form by my idea. I have a tiny idea of what it takes to make it in your industry, I can only imagine that it's probably one of the toughest paths to follow.

If I can suggest to the board this idea, and ask for your thoughts. I should mention that I have told my wife that I want to do this, but on my own. Her face lit up when she heard, then she started drinking...just kidding. I actually have some skills, I have followed recipes in the past...but well in the past. It might make more sense for me to define the menu first, then as shakeandbake suggests, do it over and over until I get it right. I can do it here in my own kitchen...whoops, my wife’s kitchen, and also as shakeandbake suggested at a friend’s house. Also, I'm thinking that this will be a meal where everything is placed on the table at one time...then I yell Come in git it!... En Francaise. I envision myself beginning to work early in the morning preparing while the 5 guinea pigs are working at the beach. Yes, they will be tempted to stay and eat at Club 55 (a famous beach club restaurant) but guilt will set in and they will do the right thing. St Tropez has a quite a nice selection of shops, I gather that what I will need I will be able to buy the day before the meal, leaving only things that should only be bought on the day of...bread and so on. Dessert? Yikes!!


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## anneke (Jan 5, 2001)

Actually, it is possible; I've trained people in the past who have become quite proficient in the kitchen because I taught them all the "why's" that recipe books don't teach you, and more importantly, how to taste food. This is home cooking afterall. What chefs do different is speed, running a brigade, writing/changing menues, ets etc.....

Flash, if you want to chat, PM me.


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## flashinthepan (Apr 8, 2008)

Chef Norm, I hear you.

I don't want anyone to feel that I'm making light of this wonderful art form by my idea. I have a tiny idea of what it takes to make it in your industry, I can only imagine that it's probably one of the toughest paths to follow.

If I can suggest to the board this idea, and ask for your thoughts. I should mention that I have told my wife that I want to do this, but on my own. Her face lit up when she heard, then she started drinking...just kidding. I actually have some skills, I have followed recipes in the past...but well in the past. It might make more sense for me to define the menu first, then as shakeandbake suggests, do it over and over until I get it right. I can do it here in my own kitchen...whoops, my wife’s kitchen, and also as shakeandbake suggested at a friend’s house. Also, I'm thinking that this will be a meal where everything is placed on the table at one time...then I yell Come in git it!... En Francaise. I envision myself beginning to work early in the morning preparing while the 5 guinea pigs are working at the beach. Yes, they will be tempted to stay and eat at Club 55 (a famous beach club restaurant) but guilt will set in and they will do the right thing. St Tropez has a quite a nice selection of shops, I gather that what I will need I will be able to buy the day before the meal, leaving only things that should only be bought on the day of...bread and so on. Dessert? Yikes!!


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## flashinthepan (Apr 8, 2008)

Chef Norm, I hear you.

I don't want anyone to feel that I'm making light of this wonderful art form by my idea. I have a tiny idea of what it takes to make it in your industry, I can only imagine that it's probably one of the toughest paths to follow.

If I can suggest to the board this idea, and ask for your thoughts. I should mention that I have told my wife that I want to do this, but on my own. Her face lit up when she heard, then she started drinking...just kidding. I actually have some skills, I have followed recipes in the past...but well in the past. It might make more sense for me to define the menu first, then as shakeandbake suggests, do it over and over until I get it right. I can do it here in my own kitchen...whoops, my wife's kitchen, and also as shakeandbake suggested at a friend's house. Also, I'm thinking that this will be a meal where everything is placed on the table at one time...then I yell Come in git it!... En Francaise. I envision myself beginning to work early in the morning preparing while the 5 guinea pigs are working at the beach. Yes, they will be tempted to stay and eat at Club 55 (a famous beach club restaurant) but guilt will set in and they will do the right thing. St Tropez has a quite a nice selection of shops, I gather that what I will need I will be able to buy the day before the meal, leaving only things that should only be bought on the day of...bread and so on. Dessert? Yikes!!


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## chef norm (Apr 3, 2008)

Hey, no offense intended! The key word in my first post is "impress." Remember, they're French to begin with (lousy soldiers, but innovative cooks), and you're trying to "outdo" them in their own back yard, with their regional style of cooking--my French friends might even be somewhat offended that you were so presumptuous as to try something like that--your efforts might be received more favorably if you made hamburgers and "French" fries, or Pot Roast and Mashed Potatoes. Be who you are!


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## bazza (Apr 2, 2007)

Mario

Don't be intimidated, you are not learning to be a pro chef for goodness sake, you are talking about cooking one meal. Firstly decide what you want to cook, the style of the meal. Is it a casual lunch? A formal dinner? if you want ideas there is a wealth of knowledge on this forum. Secondly plan it, again there is plenty of advice here, and thirdly, practise, taste, and enjoy it. You don't seem to have a specific question that you need help with.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Yeah pot roast would be awesome. Do it the California way. Puree the mirepoix for hte gravy and don't use a thickener.


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## flashinthepan (Apr 8, 2008)

Very good points. 

My father was from Calabria and my mother is from Le Marche. My mother and father were avid cooks, always dueling with southern and northern dishes. So, I do feel a strong connection to that type of cooking.


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## flashinthepan (Apr 8, 2008)

Bazza, I think initially I was looking for feedback on the idea of cooking a meal that is local in nature. Also, I was looking for direction on how I would best make this happen in the time frame that I have, basically two months. I think there is something to what Chef Norm says, however I would like to achieve a certain level of sophistication. I know that sophistication can be applied to the hamburger, but the Pot Roast is a distinct possibility.


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## bazza (Apr 2, 2007)

Sounds like you have a good background in cooking, how about the French Pot Roast, Cassoulet?


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## chef norm (Apr 3, 2008)

Again, I don't really understand the idea of trying to make something that your guests are probably expert at, and maybe even tired of by now...what's wrong with making something you know already, and that you feel confident with and proud of? Not for nothing, but I thought Cassoulet was more like "Meaty" Baked Beans than Pot Roast, but what do I know?


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## the_seraphim (Dec 25, 2006)

learn the way i learnt, my mom has a big supercook recipe series (20 books in all) its 1metre of solid recipes.... thing is, each section (cakes for example) starts of which a description about methods, types of cake, creaming, the other ones (ok so i didnt memorise it...) 

im gonna go to the food network in my country (uk) and bug them into letting me do a show (uktv - food is the channel)


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## chef norm (Apr 3, 2008)

Let me put it to you this way--if these French friends came to visit you wherever you are, how would you feel about them insisting on making you bacon and eggs, or a chicken fried steak?


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## bazza (Apr 2, 2007)

Chef Norm I was responding to these posts, however I do see your point. Did you see what happened when Ramsey tried it?
French reviewers give Gordon Ramsay a taste of his own medicine - Times Online


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## chef norm (Apr 3, 2008)

Touché indeed...I'm sure Gordy knows he's inviting criticism by opening a "French" Restaurant in France--to his credit, the Scots haven't won any more wars than the French, but at least they don't just surrender when they see a little fireworks! I hope our friend Flashinthepan is prepared for the fausses louanges, pretty much no matter what he makes, and, hey, I love the French (for lunch). I vote for Fried Chicken.


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## chef norm (Apr 3, 2008)

Hey, when I was in St. Tropez in the 70's, it was a big hangout for nudists and "free thinkers," much to my delight. Whatever Flashinthepan serves, it should definitely include breasts, legs, and thighs! Or is that too racy for this thread...


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## flashinthepan (Apr 8, 2008)

Wow, after reading that Ramsey story I've put off ordering a Salamander for the kitchen, and I'm not going to order a chefs hat with my initials on it.



I want to again thank everyone for taking the time to post their thoughts, its given me much to think about. If I may I'd like to follow up in a day or two with where I may be going with this. Also as this moves along I will be updating my progress, I'm also going to ask my wife to post her experience of the event, regardless of what happens.

Mario


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## chef norm (Apr 3, 2008)

You, my friend, are a true Glutton for Punishment (literally and metaphorically)


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## chef norm (Apr 3, 2008)

Yes, cancel the order for a salamander, and order a thermal immersion circulator, Guy Savoy is doing a lot of Sous Vide, "under the radar."


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

It's a splendid idea. Yes, you can pull it off easily as long as you keep the menu reasonably simple. The style of cooking in the South of France is very straightforward. The aesthetic is to put one important thing on the plate, and enhance it's natural goodness with preparation and a few simple additions. It is not at all a fussy cuisine. And you've mastered the most difficult part -- shopping.
That's another issue entirely. I've never heard of a chef giving private lessons for one -- but that doesn't mean it isn't done. I'm sure if you contact some of the local cooking schools oriented towards home cooks that you can find someone who will work with you. It's only a matter of money. 
In Southern California, where I am, that would be no problem at all. I don't imagine it's that much of a problem there. What you cannot find is ingredients of the same quality and freshness and seasonality. But you can learn to handle the ingredients you'll likely use, or at least some very much like them.
Probably not quite as much as you think. You will have to do a little practicing though, and may not be able to keep it away from your wife.

Think about a menu like the following

Starter:
Tapenade of Nicoise Olives, tuna, anchovies, and capers, flavored with _marc. _
Grilled snails brochette (on rosemary twigs)
Served with  toasted local bread and Pernod and water or Campari and soda.

Salad:
Poached asparagus _hollandaise
_
Main:
Grilled lamb chops with grilled eggplant, cooked _a minute_. Served with a good Bordeaux.

Sweet:
Peach gallette with whipped cream

Cheese:
Selection served with a vintage Port

Other than the asparagus and the hollandaise, the grilling, and the whipped cream, the entire meal can be prepared in advance or outdoors with your guests. It is simple, regional, seasonal, and alcoholic. I'm not saying this should be your meal. Rather, I'm saying trust your instincts about regional/seasonal and stay within your power band. The French very impressed by anyone who can use a charcoal grill. 

BDL


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Also:

Call me crazy, but I somehow don't associate "pot roast" with summer on the Cote d'Azur. 

BDL


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## greyeaglem (Apr 17, 2006)

I'm with Chef Norm on this one. Would you want your friends to visit you from France and treat you to a meat loaf dinner? Are there any ingredients from your area you could take with you? Do something that you know can do well. Sometimes simplicity is an art form. Good luck!


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## gummy-bear (Oct 27, 2007)

I would be polite and honored that they are interested in a cuisine other than their own. To have the curiosity and bravery to try something different that I have knowledge on is something to be admired and respected. People experiment, that's what a kitchen is for. 

I cooked Mexican food for a Mexican family until I got it right, and they were not insulted in the slightest. They would give me advice and buy more ingredients until I could cook a meal the traditional way. We ate the same thing for a week. :lol:


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## flashinthepan (Apr 8, 2008)

Soooo, I know what some of you may have been thinking…that’s the last we’ll probably hear from FlashInThePan. Not so fast, however I did have trouble extricating myself from underneath the bed. 

I’ve broken the news to my Parisian friends about the lunch, they’re thrilled at the idea, although I’m not quite sure what “C’est pas vrai! and “Non, mais, t’es pas bien!” means.

I’m happy to report that through the very generous assistance from Boar_D_Laze I’ve come up with what I think is a challenging but doable lunch menu. That menu is…

-Entree: Summer Salad of fresh local greens, with goat cheese, cucumber and tomato, dressed with a simple vinaigrette using salted anchovies. Wine -- Cote d'Aix, white

-Poissons: Red Mullets in Olive Cream Sauce. 

-Viandes: Mignon of Lamb with garlic puree. Wine -- Bandol, red

-Dessert: Apricot gratin with almond and kirsch.

Boar_D_Laze is laying out the process for me..the day before work prep, the day of prep, the cooking steps and so on. I’ll be using the stove and the barbecue for this meal. I won’t wait too long before I attempt my first run through, I will update the board on the results of that first attempt. 

I know that there were a few people who voiced concerns over the choice of food, I did appreciate those comments, however I’m very comfortable with the choices that Boar_D_Laze has recommended.

Mario
Chef in Waiting


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## mikelm (Dec 23, 2000)

Flash-

More bashing! 

I'm with Chef Norm and greyeaglem on this one. It seems to me that trying on short notice and little practice to outcook your guests in their native cuisine is a bit presumptious, as well as risky. If you do it less than well... they'll notice, though probably be too polite to point it out.

If you do a native American spread, they will probably be impressed with your work and not be attuned to any minor shortcomings in your execution. Three examples:

In June 2005 we had a Rotary International Convention here in Chicago, and our club threw a (catered) barbecue for 400 Rotary guests, mostly from abroad. We got wildly appreciative email from our guests for about six months.

At the same conference, four couples in the club got together, invited about sixteen guests - again foreign - and treated them to a _complete_ Thanksgiving dinner (June, remember), with ALL the trimmings. Believe me, it went over like a ton of bricks.

And, at the same conference, we hosted a Swedish couple for five or so days. I asked members of this forum, just as you have done, for suggestions about quintissential American breakfasts, which we fed them before we all headed downtown to the meetings. As with your query, there was an outpouring of friendly and helpful suggestions.

As I remember, we had country ham, grits, and red-eye gravy; corned beef hash and poached eggs, and others I can't remember - there was something from New Orleans. (We drew the line at scrapple.) These were heavier breakfasts than Europeans are accustomed to, but they were pretty game.

So I think you should play to your strengths.

I hope you have fun and a lot of success. Also hope you hang around the forum.

added as afterthought:
my son travels the world (pretty literally, as a corporate engineer.) Spending a week in Taipei, his fellow engineers took him out for a special treat... to the the local MacDonalds. 
He commented to me "That's the first time in seven years I've been in a MacDonalds, and I hope it will be that long again!"

Mike :chef:


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## flashinthepan (Apr 8, 2008)

Thank you MikeLM for your post. 

I mentioned in one of my earlier posts (at least I think I did) that my Parisian friends have spent a good deal of time here in Toronto over the years. I mention this again because I think it fair to suggest that they've been exposed on many occasions to foods that are native to my part of the world. However, having said this it begs the question that under the worst case scenario (blown meal), would it be better to blow up on their native dishes or mine? I guess if I were to take a poll here it would no doubt show that if I were to go down in flames, better to go down cooking my southern Canadian-Ontario-Toronto-Eh? local favorites.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

I would suggest taking a few cooking classes and practice practice practice! Following a recipe and cooking are two very different things. What I love about cooking the most is the artistry of doing very simple things and doing them well. Anyone can scramble eggs into a pan, puts some cheese on it and fold it into an omelette, but very few people take the time to make a proper omelet.

So many little things to know that you only find out by doing. It takes constant practice. I'm completely self-taught but I spend much time watching cooking shows, observing other cooks, and discussing food. Along the way I've learned a lot but I have a long long way to go.

Most chefs will judge you by your ability to:
1. make an omelet
2. roast a chicken
3. make a soup

You're on your way good luck and what an opportunity!


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

I don't know about that. Lots of good cooks measure carefully and stay close to recipes. The proof is on the plate, as they say. There's a lot of different ways to cook and be a cook. For me, cooking involves bringing a set of techniques, understanding, experience, an aesthetic, imagination _and a plan_ to well chosen ingredients. Whether a cook works directly off the page or not most good cooks have a fairly definite plan in mind when they set out -- and if that isn't a "recipe," what is it?

And, in truth, most great restaurant meals are cooked by line or station cooks closely following a chef's perfected recipes. Of course, one of the things that makes a good line cook good is the discipline to look, smell and taste; and the skill to adjust for variable ingredients.

Recipe creation is a part of cooking and involves a certain amount of hit and miss, but it isn't all hit or miss. There's a lot of discipline and experience that goes into it as well as vamping.

Less is more sometimes, and while too much more can be too much -- something more is more.

Most people screw up scrambled eggs. They cook them too hot. They cook them too dry so the eggs lose all their sheen. Or leave them undercooked and wet. They don't let the eggs finish off the heat and coast to doneness. They don't season in layers. They don't get their seasoning level right.

It doesn't take much time to make a "proper" omelette. It takes practice to make omelettes well, consistently. That takes time. And what do you mean by "proper?" Must it be French? Must it be made in a seasoned carbon steel pan? How about non-stick? How about a pancake-style salami omelet at a deli? Does that count? It better. What about a Spanish tortilla?

True dat. It's a craft like any other. It's also an art like none other. What I like best is that everybody says, "Great meal!" and goes home. The food doesn't hang around long enough for them to notice the little flaws that drive me nuts. On the other hand, maybe they're too polite, or intimidated. I think I'm going to cry.

Don't know about constant. The more the better, that's for sure.
Television has done much to democratize cooking education. And television has done much to teach you. You're not an auto-didact. Also, cookbooks are an essential part of nearly every good cook's _baterie d'cuisine_.

It was this statement that got me to write in response. It's total nonsense. Also, there's nothing particularly revealing about any of them -- other than the fact that the omelette and chicken are simple but seldom done well. Soup represents such a broad category, that its inclusion is meaningless. More importantly, none of those dishes emphasize the sort of far-ranging techniques useful in putting together lots of other dishes.

If you told me I had to judge a cook according to only three criteria, I might ask the cook to cut a fine dice of mirepoix with a knife (s)he'd sharpened herself, saute the mirepoix by tossing only, without using a spoon or turner; and to season the mirepoix to an appropriate level with salt and pepper. That is, knife technique, hot-pan technique, and seasoning. That's pretty basic stuff. From someone out of cooking school, I'd want "pan-seared scallops" to reveal searing technique, touch testing, and "coasting" into doneness; as well as whether or not (s)he paid attention in school. Paying attention is key. But let's not get lost in minutiae.

Does (s)he have an intense love of food, and an equally intense desire to share that love by feeding others? Voila!

My dos centavos,
BDL


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

What about some of their local food, extending a "cultural handshake" that you may pull off quite well, plus some of your home cuisine that will be a delight to them as well? In '00 I visited France, not far from Bordeaux, and as much as I found delight in their culture and food, they also were really interested in mine.

And by the way, when I visited I stayed with my sis and her French husband. They asked me to bring some microbrews from here, because as excellent as the beer is there, they couldn't get types that they missed from here (he has also lived here in the USA). I don't know how free you are to take local produce and beverages over there now, but I say, do take something local from where you live, because it will be appreciated.


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## bazza (Apr 2, 2007)

Come on guys, where is your spirit of adventure? fly by the seat of your pants, give it your best shot and stop being so negative. This is a meal for friends, if it goes wrong its hardly going to damage the French Canadian relaionship now is it? I think Flash is more capable than he comes across and he is relishing the challenge which is exactly what I would do. He stands every chance of producing a fine French lunch esp with a guy like BDL up his sleeve. The menu looks great, and I would definately cook French for French people, is it not the best cuisine in the world? And if I were French I too would be a little surprised at meat loaf or pot roast. 
Bon appetit Flash


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

I just wanted to point out that they will love your home contributions as well


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Not to mention _poutine_. "Ow yoo say en Anglaise? WTF?"

BDL


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Menu looks great.

I'd probably buy olives, radishes & butter

Salad Greens with great vinager and olive oil

Multitude of cheeses, honey, nuts, fruit 
some bread/crackers

Maybe grill some lamb & asparagus

Good wine, call it a day....and be on the beach with the rest of them.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Wow, so sorry to assault you with my humble opinion of what makes a good chef. Your expertise is obviously much more important than mine and you are very right... knife technique, hot pan technique and seasoning have nothing to do with making a good omelette, roasting a beautiful chicken, or making a great soup. How silly of me.


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## cookingangry (Mar 28, 2008)

BDL speaks with an informed viewpoint that comes only from the expertise and experience that he (I think BDL is a male, if not I'm sorry, online socializing is still new to me) contributes. His responce to the a set of evaluations formulated from television criteria clearly demonstrates a contrasting view point but to attack his post as elitist is in poor taste. 

The point of these forums is to inform and few can match BDL when it comes to contributing informative posts. In fact, his responce indicates what a CHEF (he is indeed a retired professional chef) assesses one's ability on.

I am sure the post was only a correction and not an attack.

Cheers :beer:


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Map -- I'm afraid I took out a boatload of frustration on you when I wrote that post. I was rude. Both the tenor and degree of disagreement were poorly expressed. I should not have invalidated your opinions. They are as good as anyone's, especially mine. My bad. However I'd also like to say, without any attempt at self-justification: Since "flash," the thread originator, had already written that he and I were going to work together on a specific menu, your comments were less than supportive. At the time I took them as officious, although now I see they were not meant that way. What do you say we both try and do better? BDL

angry -- Yes, male. And thanks. Let me add, just to clear up my bio that I don't want to overplay my credentials as a _chef_. I have a couple of years in a couple of very high-end restaurants, _Blue Fox, Chez Panisse_ as a line cook, plus some parallel experience in not so high-end restaurants and catering outfits surrounding that period. I have another five or six years in catering -- most of it as _the caterer_ for my own small outfit, _Predominantly French_ in the SF Bay Area and then in Los Angeles. I don't want to overplay that hand either. The last couple of years of catering were more hobby than profession, and more an opportunity to pay for some toys and take some tax breaks than an attempt to earn an honest living.

BDL


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Angry - I am new to cheftalk, and have always found BDL's posts to be very informative as well, and interesting to read. That's why I was so angered by the complete breakdown fo everything I posted and took it as a personal attack, because I had never seen him discredit anyone before (I could be wrong, I'm new) in such a manner.

BDL - thank you for the reply, I resorted to sarcasm out of confusion at your post and I apologize for the rudeness. I am not trained as a chef, but it is a passion of mine that I take very seriously. I mean have you ever eaten a rubbery egg? And what do you immediately surmise about the person who cooked that rubbery egg? I humbly believe that the care and skill involved in scrambling an egg is very indicative of the cook's ability to work with ingredients and heat. I am not suggesting that omelette, soup, and roast chicken should BE his menu in France, only that at some point the skills acquired within those dishes are basic and indeed very very useful - that's all. 

My point is that learning how to cook comes in stages of discovery for me. If I'm not striving to make a dish better then I know it's getting worse, not staying the same. I enjoy learning the tricks of cooking and those come with time and practice... that's what I meant by "constant practice." I myself have very little knife skills, but I can serve a delicious meal prepared with a great deal of thought and intuitiveness.

I would be interested in finding out how the proper way to cut an onion affects my pot roast... could cutting it a different way or cutting it faster affect the flavor?


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## cookingangry (Mar 28, 2008)

This is encouraging. So many forums get plagued with anger and despite my handle, this dissapoints me. It is so nice to see what was clearly a breakdown in the process of communication end in all parties being no longer offended.

In responce to your question about knife skills and your pot roast... a fine dice will allow all of the onion to cook evenly and develop a more consistant flavor. YouTube - Knife Skills - Diced Onion
(not the best video but the first that came up)

I'd be interested in the rest of your recipe.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

A good home cook's pot roast is an interesting example. The short answer is that knife technique gives you control.

Angry's point about consistency is a good one. But ... WAIT, THERE'S MORE!!!

If you _slice_ the onion very thin (1/8" -- the thickness of _julienne _and _brunois_) in a _lyonnaise cut_, the onions will hold up long enough to brown and become sweet, but will completely dissolve into the sauce.

If you _mince_ or _brunois_ (very fine dice) the onion, the pieces will be too small to brown properly, and some will likely burn.

If you _fine dice_ the onion ... well and good but will leave tiny pieces that should be sieved out.

If you medium dice the onion -- the onion will cook consistently hold up in the sauce and can be pressed, if and when the sauce is sieved.

If you rough chop the onion, it will present a rustic appearance but you will need more onion for the same amount of taste. Furthermore, if the pot roast is cooked slowly the onion although visually present will be tasteless. But, the meat and sauce may be separated, the onion strained out, and the meat returned to the sauce with separately browned, fresh onion -- as in _boeuf en daube_.

If you cut the onion with a dull knife, the knife will crush as it cuts, releasing volatile oils, and your eyes will water. Also, the bitter, sulfurous qualities of the onion will be pushed slightly forward. The alpha and omega of knife technique is a sharp knife.

BDL


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

i posted a reply to this thread, but it is lost in cyber space..sorry to repeat if it somehow shows up!
i applaud you mario for stepping up to your own personal challenge and for extending a gesture of friendship, not showmanship. keep in mind that this is a meal among friends..they may be your harshest critics or your biggest fans..who cares, really. its the time spent with friends over good food and wine that counts.. i think reading encylopedic cooking tomes are not going to help much at this point, not to mention being boring as ****. understanding the relationship that food has with different seasonings and preparations are key as well as being relaxed in the kitchen, confident with yourself and with your food..keep the menu simple and clean and serve really good wine! if your ingredients are the freshest and the menu is simple, there is not much that can go wrong, really(unless you are a complete klutz, which i doubt). and at the risk of getting bashed for sounding corny..cook with love..it really is the most important ingredient! bon appetit!
p.s. of course i know that this is not a contest, but i am secretly hoping you blow their socks off!!! go get em!
joey


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

Regarding the professionals here: in my opinion they are generous with their contributions in the open forums. Where else can you get so much time from someone in the biz? Appreciate it and disregard what you want. Take it for what it is--pros letting their feathers down a bit for you and taking time to answer because they enjoy this.

At first I didn't appreciate this site as much as I should have. Here we have people who have dedicated most of their adult life to this and as much as I love cooking, there's no way I have the experience that many here do. 

There are a few things I consider myself knowledgeable in and I stick to my guns on those  But please do appreciate those with more knowledge. There's nowhere else you can get this.


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## flashinthepan (Apr 8, 2008)

Dear board members, 

My wife and I unfortunately will not be travelling to the south of France as planned. 

I want to thank everyone who took the time to offer their comments; I especially want to thank Boar_d_Laze for all of the help and suggestions, truly a fine individual. This is just a postponement, one day I’m going to make it happen.

All of the best to everyone,

Mario


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## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

Sorry to hear about things not working out as expected. It has been something like 20 years since my wife and I were in France. I imagine my appreciation of the cuisine would take on a different slant now then it did back then.

Oddly, one of my fondest memories of Paris was of this Irish pub in the basement of some building near a really old and beautiful church, I think it was. I still have the big glass Guiness mug from there that must have somehow accidently fallen into my wife's tote bag at some point that evening :beer:

My least favorite memory was finding out that all those middle of the street, risking life and limb, pictures of famous things I took that one night were all for naught, as the film hadn't actually loaded properly in the camera - drat.

mjb.


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## rpmcmurphy (Jan 8, 2008)

No reason not to cook the meal


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

i agree with rpmcmurphy..why not just cook the meal anyway? find a brilliant, cloudless sunshiny day and imagine you and your wife in the south of france..set up a table on the patio, and start pouring the wine! sante mario,...c'est la vie
joey


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Careful what you wish for Joe. Mario has a slightly simplified version of the lamb with garlic cream recipe that I adapted from Roger Verge and gave you. You don't want him to get in before you, do you?

BDL


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

i ain't a scared bdl....never!
fyi, joey is a she!!


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