# What is a starter?



## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

I apologize if this sounds a little dense but what exactly is a "starter"?  I'm pretty good with serving appetizers but I've never served a starter course in any of my meals.  I usually begin dinner parties with wine, cheese, and a few assorted appetizers in the living room and then serve family style in the dining room.  The selection on my table usually includes some kind of meat, a starch, a couple of vegetable sides, salad, and a basket of bread.  What is the function of a starter and what's the difference between that and an appetizer.  Should it be a little bigger than an appetizer?  What are some typical starters?  Can a starter be served family style?


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

It basically starts your meal/app


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

What a mess. Those words all mean something different depending on what country you're from and what era you're talking about. The reason I mention that is because many of those words (hors d'oeuvre, amuse bouche, entree etc..) are French but are not used with the same meaning as their French counterparts - and even in France, they don't have the same meaning today as they did 100 years ago. 

Would you say an apetizer is the same thing as a hors d'oeuvre? If yes, nowadays in France, a hors d'oeuvre is the same thing as what us French call "Entrée", which is the first plated dish served once you sit at the table. So it would be the same thing as a starter.... right? In the past when formal meals had 12 courses, all those words had a very specific meaning but today everything is kinda blurred together. 

In France a typical meal consists of:

• Amuse Bouches (single bite apps served to standing crowd or at the table before you place your order). 

• Entrée (starter or first course)

• Plat principal (entrée)

• Salad

• Cheeses

• Dessert

• Coffee and chocolates

In France an Apéritif is an alcohol (typically fortified wines, pastis, or champagne or kir, etc...) usually served before you sit at the table, along with amuse bouches, or as we really call them at home, amuse gueules, along with some olives, salted roasted nuts, cubed cheese, balled cantaloupe, etc. 

A few typical starters served we serve at home in France: 

• Shredded carrots & vinaigrette, soft boiled eggs

• Shaved red cabbage & vinaigrette

• Cantaloupe and prosciutto, 

• Soup

• Charcuteries (pate, terrines, rillettes, etc..)


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

In England, 'starter' means "appetiser".


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

panini said:


> Normally a starter, starts your meal. It can be small like an amuse bouche.


Here in California, if I went to a restaurant and ordered a starter, and they brought me an amuse bouche (one or two bites), I would definitely complain!!! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif


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## chrisbelgium (Oct 2, 2010)

We always start with an apéritif and an amuse gueule. These are mostly not served at the dining table but at the coffee table. The apéritif can be anything that sharpens your appetite; champagne, dry cherry, gin tonic, light white wine or even a light beer. In summer I love a Campari soda or a pastis.

The amuse gueule is up to your inspiration. Put a plate of oysters on your coffee table and let guests serve themselves. Small one-bite toasts with foie gras is also very popular and simple to make. Don't get me wrong, we don't serve only posh amuses. Mostly it's a bit more humble like cutting a nice chunk of excellent hard cheese like gouda in small bitesize cubes, a few olives, anything is possible. A small "verrine" is very popular now; small glasses filled with anything that comes from your imagination like crabmeat in mayo, a mousse etc.

Starters (or entrée in french terms like FF explained) are small plates (think spanish tapa) that mostly contains no starches; 6 or 12 oysters, a few scallops, a fish soup served in an expresso cup. When going to France, for starter I will always have a terrine du chef, delicious homemade pâté. Or, also in France, an assiette de crudités, an abundant plate of raw veggies and vinaigrette...


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Never gave it much thought, before, KK. But now that you bring it up, a starter, in this household, is the first plated dish. It starts the meal (thus, starter), and is a small-plate sort of dish. Could be anything from a salad to soup to seafood lollipops. It's served, obviously, at the table. Very often, I find, that if the starter is based on what is normally a main dish I adjust the size. For instance, I might use crab cakes as a starter, but the plate would hold three of them that, in total, only equal the size of a regular one. Or maybe I'll use a couple of meatball skewers as a starter, in which case the meat will be shaped with a melon baller.

To me, horsey derves, appetisers, etc. are synonyms for small bites designed to stimulate the appetite. They are usually not served at table, and are accompanied by beverages. Basically, a before-the-meal snack.

Amuse' serve the exact same function. But I've always thought there was a minor nuance in that an amuse' bouche is a one-bite way for the chef to show off.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Hey guys  a starter could also refer to bread making or a sour depending how old you are. Panini you could explain this


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## benway (May 24, 2009)

I thought this thread would be about bread.


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## nicko (Oct 5, 2001)

Interested discussion Koukou. I always thought a starter and an app were the same. An amuse bouche is so small it is really just a teaser but a starter is what you "start" eating your meal with.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Maybe a guy on the golf course??


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

I've learned from Top Chef that an amuse bouche is only one bite that is meant to tantalize the palate.... no matter how many times I try to spell it right I will never spell this word right.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Top Chef the TV show?

Amuse Bouche became popular during the Nouvelle Cuisine Craz.e. It is not an appetizer. It is a gift from the chef

to get your taste buds awake. An appetizer is something that is ordered.

  We actually know very little about the taste buds. Way back they used to tell us sweet near the tip, sour towards the back

but all this has been debunked.. The key to amuse bouche is to stir all or most of the taste buds with one bite. It can prepare you for your meal

or make the meal unpleasant. Asian chefs have defined another taste bud. It stands on its head when you use certain glutemates.

Crap, can't remember the name uname?? that's all I know.


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

Panini - I think the word you are looking for is Umami.  I could (easily!) be wrong.  It's generally found in foods such as tomatoes and mushorooms for example, I think.

This is how the other courses are translated/ transposed here, generally.

Amuse bouche (or amuse garde) is definitely just a mouthful of something really tasty to set you in the mood for more.  Not generally had at the table, as has been mentioned.

Appetiser-  well it equals starter or entree, sat down at the table, small serve, usually something fairly light.  As in seafood, salad etc.

Main course - often called entree in other parts of the world, is generally the heaviest part of the meal, whatever the course may be.

Dessert is dessert.

Coffee and something chocolatey is a lovely way to finish the meal, maybe accompanied by a liquer (I highly recommend Irish Mist or Port wine).


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

Well, I, too, thought this was going to be about bread, Benway. 

But none of this mentions the "first course" in Italian cuisine, and actually, in most European cuisine, where a soup would always precede the main course no matter what, and in Italy where it could be a soup or a pasta, and this even in every family meal.  I thought this was still part of a french meal, in fact, even at home, but maybe my information is outdated.   

Many families will not eat "dry" in italy, which means without a first course, and schools without full cafeterias will send the kids home for lunch.  I remember many parents, in reply to my asking why they can't just take a sandwich to school, would say "you don;t really want your kids to eat "dry" at lunch do you?" 

So where do you put the soup course?  I know pasta is used as a main dish in the states, but soup, at least not heavy thick soups full of bread or beans and pasta etc, but thin soups like broth or simple veloutees, are first courses, are they not?  And are definitely not considered appetizers, are they? unless if served in tiny cups or spoons, which seems to be a current phase.   Would they be starters?   Not that it much matters, but just for the information.

I usually don't do any sort of appetizer or aperitif before a dinner, the only aperitif i ever did was cyr (is that how it's spelled?) (champagne plus cassis) because i like it, and that's for a stand-up meal type party, and there I do many appetizers.  But people don;t drink much here, at least not those my age.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Its a forspice or pre dinner tidbit  sent out gratus by the chef to the dinner guest after tey are seated.. As an example of what is to come.


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

It would seem, everybody has a definition for appetizer, starter, hors d oeuvre. In some venues they are all one in the same thing. Amuse Bouche means "to amuse the mouth" The term has been bastardized some where along the way.

At first glance, I too, was ready to give the definition of a flour, water, yeast mixture used in the production of bread.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

I'm sorry to disappoint those who thought this would be a thread about bread, but alas I do not bake. 

Since some of you have mentioned chefs and restaurants I'd like to point out that in that context I have no problem distinguishing what a starter is.  I often order a starter at a restaurant with no fuss.  But I don't know how to incorporate a starter from my own kitchen.  Somehow I seem to classify my dishes as either appetizers or family-style entrees.  I don't do fancy plating at home which probably eliminates the need for a "starter."


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## chrisbelgium (Oct 2, 2010)

Koukouvagia said:


> I don't do fancy plating at home which probably eliminates the need for a "starter."


I don't get the logic in this. You're the boss when you're cooking and you plate in your very own style; it's an expression of who you are, so what?

When eating in a Greek restaurant in my country we mostly share a big plate of mezze as a starter, perfect but abundant mix of greek goodies. I believe "mezze" is the equivalent of spanish "tapa". I would love to being served only a few as a starter in any greek home!

@Siduri; Soup! Oh yes, when we were young we had homemade soup every single day before the meal... That was the era where mothers had a lot of children, stayed at home, and indeed the children walked home each noon, to eat at home ànd return to school on foot. Since mostly both partners go to work, there's sadly no more time for all that. So daily soup got a bit forgotten. But, you're right, soup can indeed be a fantastic starter. I already mentioned soups being served in small cups nowadays as a starter. We just outgrew the "cappucino" thing where people had to put some kind of posh foamy substance on a soup before serving it.


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

In the UK the courses are known as

starter

main

pudding

cheese

Starters can be anything from melon/proscuttio, a broth, eggs mimosa, small amount of pate with melba toast, prawn cocktail (very retro!).  It's usually a small amount of food.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

_which probably eliminates the need for a "starter."_

You say "need", KK, as if there are some rules you have to follow. All we're really talking about is the progression of courses if you happen to serve that way. You recognize this in a restaurant. If you want to follow suit, just arrange the courses the same way.

On the other hand, if you serve family style, as is apparently the case, everything just goes out on the table at once (except desert, of course), and you avoid the whole problem.

Siduri's comments about the Italian system are right on track here. You begin with an antipasti (comparable to our appetizer), then proceed to the primo (first course or starter), secondo, etc. But fit this into your own kind of service. As she notes, although pasta is a main course here in the States, it's a primo in Italy. The portion size is nothing near what we serve. Instead, it's a small amount that gets you ready for the courses that follow. Typically, 3 oz of pasta serves as a primo.

Keep in mind that a formal course progression usually has little to do with how you serve at home. We just don't engage in that sort of gluttony anymore, where you have as many as 12 courses. The word "course" can be confusing, though. Let's say you served a progression that included salad, soup, the main plate, and desert. We would call that four courses. But, in fact, in a formal progression, there is no such thing as a plate divided in three, as we commonly serve. Instead, there would be a fish course, and a beef course, and a vegetable course, and..... well, you get the idea.

Even when serving family style there often is a progression of courses, even though they may not be called that. When I was growing up, for instance, Mom always served the soup or salad before the main meal. So we would, in effect, have three courses: the starter (soup or salad), the main meal (always a plate divided in three), and desert. But if anyone ever referred to them as such I'm sure mom would have looked bemused at best. I'm not sure mom even knew the word appetizer. When people showed up, you just automatically put out some noshes and something to drink.

What I'm saying, at base, is that it almost doesn't matter what you call each course. The goal should be to make you and your guests happy through food. If a progression of courses accomplishes that, that's what you do. If family style works better, then you serve that way.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Some places in Europe and a few here serve Salad Course after entree . Some serve an Intermezzo . Depends where you are and what ship your on.      I served an Intermezzo of Lemon Sorbet in a Real Lemon Basket with a Live Daisy on it.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

ChrisBelgium said:


> I don't get the logic in this. You're the boss when you're cooking and you plate in your very own style; it's an expression of who you are, so what?
> 
> When eating in a Greek restaurant in my country we mostly share a big plate of mezze as a starter, perfect but abundant mix of greek goodies. I believe "mezze" is the equivalent of spanish "tapa". I would love to being served only a few as a starter in any greek home!


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Koukouvagia said:


> Quote:





> What I mean is I don't do plated dinners at home, I serve all my food family style in big platters. So if I put a "starter" out along with the other food (....)


But what if you put it out _before_ the other food? We often serve family style (in big platters) while still following the course orders in my house. So first we'll bring one big salad bowl of shaved raw red cabbage with a vinaigrette, that's our starter. Everybody help themselves, sometimes several times, and once everybody's done with the starter we bring the pot of stew, again family style, once everybody is done with that we bring the salad and the cheese, and once everybody is done with that we bring the dessert.

In France, even if you have guests, you usually serve food family style, but you follow the order of the courses.



> Originally Posted by *KYHeirloomer*
> 
> On the other hand, if you serve family style, everything just goes out on the table at once (...)


OK maybe I'm confused on the meaning of "family style" then - I thought it just meant that a big dish would be placed in the middle of the table rather than individually plated. Does it also mean that you place all courses at once on the table? /img/vbsmilies/smilies/confused.gif


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## longcolts (Jan 23, 2011)

In my family, family style serving was everything placed on the table at once.  Salad, Entree, and all sides, and everyone passes platters around the table.  Then starts the fun part, the eating, the conversation and the good feeling of being with family and good friends!


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Longcolts said:


> Then starts the fun part, the eating, the conversation and the good feeling of being with family and good friends!


.... that's the most important part of any meal!!! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

Italian family style means that the dishes come out in a sequence - often the pasta course is put in the bowls in the kitchen.

(family meals usually don;t have antipasto)

1. first course, always pasta, rice or soup

2. main course and side dishes (usually vegetables, usually lots)

3. possibly salad, always after main course, or SOMETIMES you might get it on the table with the other sides, but most people will eat it, in their main course dish, but AFTER having finished main course and sides.  In restaurants, always in a soup bowl and separately after the main course. 

4. fruit

usually no desert, sometimes cheese

This used to be for lunch every day, then supper would be leftovers from lunch or even bread and cheese and a salad, though many italians, esp older ones, would not eat ANY meal without a first course.  Usually pasta at lunch, pastina or rice in soup at supper, but in the north pasta could be replaced more likely with rice or polenta, and all over could be replaced with gnocchi.  None of these are ever served with the main course.  Nowadays, some will eat only the first course.


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

Siduri,

I think it depends on which culture you are in or presenting as to where soup comes in.  I think in many western european cultures it would be served as a starter.  But on the other hand if you are doing oriental a simple broth or tea is served between each course as a refresher.  I had an inkling that in the Italian cuisine, be it rumour or myth, that pasta was generally served as the last course before dessert.

Here, it is generally a starter in the home kitchen, then main, then dessert.

Confusing innit?


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

DC Sunshine said:


> Siduri,
> 
> I think it depends on which culture you are in or presenting as to where soup comes in. I think in many western european cultures it would be served as a starter. But on the other hand if you are doing oriental a simple broth or tea is served between each course as a refresher. I had an inkling that in the Italian cuisine, be it rumour or myth, that pasta was generally served as the last course before dessert.
> 
> ...


Sure is. But no italian would eat pasta after the main course, it is always first - or if there is an appetizer, after that. And salad is always after. I think partly for economic reasons, you fill the people up before they take the more expensive meat course (and courtesy and good manners always dictated that meat must be eaten with bread, and is called "companatico" - "with-bread" to stretch it even more). But salad is to clear your stomach and palate with something fresh and crispy. (In fact i have to say i never liked salad on an empty stomach!) Almost no one finishes a meal without fruit here- though i prefer it during the day or even before a meal.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

_Does it also mean that you place all courses at once on the table?







_

As with everything else food related, French Fries, it varies. But I'd say, with a couple of exception, yes. Typically, all the platters are put on the table, and passed around. Everybody helps themselves to what they want.

Soup and salad are often exceptions. Soup, because it requires an extra setting, and to assure it is piping hot, is served separately. In America that most often means at the beginning of the meal. Salad is either served separately at the beginning, or as a pass-along platter. But that, too, varies. In my mom's house, salad was passed, and you put it on the same plate as everything else. But friends right next door used a separate salad bowl, even though the salad was part of the main table.

So, a heavy family style meal would, in terms of progression, consist of either three or four "courses:"

1. Soup.

2. Salad (possibly)

3. Everything else (main dishes, side dishes, maybe salad, bread)

4. Desert

Appetisers are rarely served in a family-style environment. Usually they are reserved for parties, or when entertaining guests. But not so much at a regular meal.

Given our myriad cultural influences, however, it's hard to pinpoint hard and fast approaches. But I'd feel safe saying that's the general family style.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

> Originally Posted by *KYHeirloomer*
> 
> 1. Soup.
> 
> ...


WHAT? No cheese? /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif

Thanks KYH. It's interesting to see differences in customs between different cultures.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

French Fries said:


> WHAT? No cheese? /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif
> 
> Thanks KYH. It's interesting to see differences in customs between different cultures.


Not only differences in cultures, but variations from home to home! There are no hard and fast rules and even if they are they all depend on who's making them up and why.

For example, salad at our house is served along with the other dishes. But my mother always insisted that we put salad on our plates first, not because it was some form of etiquette but she wanted the salad to occupy most of our plates and wanted to make sure we eat it. As dinner went on she continually directed us to "eat our salad" and often tried to get us to finish our salad before we ate anything else on the plate. Why? Not because of a rule but she wanted to get us into the habit of enjoying vegetables more than meat and starch. I value this because it has indeed made me into a healthier eater, I'm sure of it.

My husband's family on the other hand are from western greece, very close to Italy. Their eating sequence follows more the Italian sensibility of eating salad as the last course before dessert. I have often heard my FIL instruct my husband to "finish eating the meat" before reaching for the salad which my mother would keel over and die if she ever heard it lol! It's a bit odd but I can't adjust the way I eat now, I have grown accustomed to intermittently eating cold crisp salad between mouthfuls of meat.

I just realized that I can't eat in courses lol! I much prefer to have it all on my plate at once and bounce back and forth from one thing to another.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Koukouvagia said:


> Not only differences in cultures, but variations from home to home! There are no hard and fast rules and even if they are they all depend on who's making them up and why.
> 
> For example, salad at our house is served along with the other dishes. But my mother always insisted that we put salad on our plates first, not because it was some form of etiquette but she wanted the salad to occupy most of our plates and wanted to make sure we eat it. (My mother doesn't even know who Michael Pollan is but she subscribes to his philosophies to a T). As dinner went on she continually directed us to "eat our salad" and often tried to get us to finish our salad before we ate anything else on the plate. Why? Not because of a rule but she wanted to get us into the habit of enjoying vegetables more than meat and starch. I value this because it has indeed made me into a healthier eater, I'm sure of it.
> 
> ...


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## chrisbelgium (Oct 2, 2010)

Soup was also often served as a starter to fill the estomachs before the rest of the meal was served! And, many times soup was part of a preparation split in two. They still do it in France for some fishsoups where the broth is served separate from the fish but still at the same moment. 

I often heared my grandparents talk of funeral lunches. Family and close friends were invited at lunch after funerals, a moment to share memories and to get on with life. They mostly served what we called "bouillie", nothing more than a soup or light stock made with the toughest meats of beef, simmered until tender with aromates. As a first course or starter, they served the soup which was the stock with finely cut veggies. A bit like a light consommé abundantly filled with vegetables. For the main dish they served the meat from which the soup or stock was made, together with strong mustard, simply boiled potatoes and carrots and a white sauce, also made with the stock or even no sauce at all, just mustard. I had a few of those funeral meals when I was very young, let's say around 50 years ago!

Even nowadays people still make that dish, however never when inviting people. It's nostalgic, it's very humble but above all, it's so delicious!


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

We used to have that often, it was a very tuscan thing to do i think (where my parents came from) and they'd sometimes make a wonderful salsa verde thing - lots of parsley and some crushed garlic, oil and vinegar mixed with the cold boiled beef and left to get some flavor before serving.  Otherwise the boiled chicken and beef, cartrots and celery would be eaten with mustard or whatever (oil, or even ketchup for the kids).  (Welll there was little taste in it by then).


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

I have seen all these terms mixed and matched on printed menus. Especially from uninformed sales people.

Sometimes used as upsell. I personally think you only need to name a course

if it's in print.

I only hope someone will email me when dessert isn't dessert anymore.

My starter is bread/img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif


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## brownedoff (Apr 4, 2011)

Ishbel said:


> In the UK the courses are known as
> 
> starter
> 
> ...


All of those examples are very retro (read 1970s) nowadays don't you think? Haven't seen melba toast on a menu in forever.


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

I find melba toast the ideal thing to go with a liver mousse.  It's strong enough to spread the mousse without breaking, it's thin enough not to overpower it.  Crackers won't do, and bread doesn't set off the softness of it.


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

Cultures do vary very much!  If we have a soup with bread, it's generally a lunch for a weekend day, not as a nightly event.  I'd go mad(der   ) if I had to make soup every night.

Our general nightly routine is  family style, i.e. big dishes of food on the table, plates pre-warmed, serve yourself, a salad, some bread and butter.  Then more than likely, a simple dessert in front of the TV later once the chat has quitened down.  But I do love to sit at the table with everyone and dig in, chat about how''s your day been and share jokes, insights - whatever they may be.  Or on occasion, to bring up problems when needed, finding solutions, etc etc.  This gives several solutions or a concensus and helps that person from different points of view.  I think in always that should be done more often for the benefit of the family.

Ok, off my soapbox now   Enjoy your dins.....with or without starter!


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

Definitely the family together and talking and enjoying each other's company is the best main course!

We feel lucky that though our kids live far away, when they come here they enjoy sitting out till late on the terrace just hanging out and chatting.


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