# Veal Stock and demi-glace



## skilletlicker (Aug 19, 2005)

In preparation for making demi-glace I'll be making my first batch of veal stock shortly. The 1990 edition of the New York Times Cookbook has a recipe that calls for 1 large (3-4 pound) veal knuckle and 1 1/2 lbs veal, cut into pieces. The best, and as far as I know, the only decent retail butcher in town is Charlie's Meat Market. When I go there tomorrow I'm afraid someone will say something like, last I checked veals don't got fingers. What part of the carcass exactly do you want? What is a knuckle exactly? (I usually don't have problems coming up with my own smart alec answers.) As for the 1 1/2 lbs. of veal - what part of the animal do I want for that?

Chef Kaiser's Demi-glace recipe calls for calves feet 0.100 kg (cut into walnut size). Would I sound like an idiot if I asked for about a quarter lb of calf foot or would it be less dumb to ask for a whole foot cut into walnut size pieces? How much does a foot weigh, give or take?

Finally, I know someone will ask what I'm going to do with demi-glace. I could say I'll use it to make rice brown, but what other uses does it have for the home cook?

I put this in a new thread so as not to drag down the intellectual level of the professional conversation on this topic in another thread. Proofreading this it sounds, even to me, like one long wisecrack but that's not how I intend it. The answers to any or all of the above will greatly appreciated.


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## ghost (Feb 11, 2006)

They don't mean knuckle as in finger knuckle. Knuckle in this context is more like a joint. Think like elbows or knees. It's a place where two bones meant in joint. You usually have lots of connective tissue in these areas, so they are rich in gelatin, and thus highly desirable for stock making.


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## skilletlicker (Aug 19, 2005)

Thanks ghost. I was thinking along those lines, but a 3 to 4 lb joint seems like a pretty big knee or elbow. Even if I think in terms of the upper joint in a butt end ham which I think is a hogs upper leg and hip ball joint it still seems like a lot. Of course, while I've had a pig and a calf, I've never had a pet veal.


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## chef kaiser (Mar 12, 2006)

hi, 

I just gave you a base recipe of 1 liter. Therefore you also can multiply the recipe by 10 or 100, what ever volume you want. Why do we cut bones and feet into walnut size - is simply to have more browning surface and i dont need to cook the demi glace for 8 plus hours, as many recipe say. Actual you can save a great deal of electricity. 

regards


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## skilletlicker (Aug 19, 2005)

Thanks Chef
Since I'm a home cook who lives alone I don't think I'll increase by factors of 10 but it's good to know that one could. I wish I could picture a calf foot. Aren't they hoofs? If the butcher is out of foot will any other part do?

I'm guessing that demi-glace might be used in the home anywhere one might otherwise use a reduced stock. Right track?

I keep a hack saw on the wall to cut ham bones for beans to a similar end. I'll try to get the butcher to cut up the foot (feet).

What part of the animal would produce a 3 to 4 lb veal knuckle?

Thanks again for your patience and generosity.


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## chef kaiser (Mar 12, 2006)

hi, 

Well you know it depends a little, where in the world you are living and the use of butchery terminologies, call it also fore or hind shank. As with knuckle many refer to pork knuckle only, may be we should all use the american meat buyers guide, so we all speak the same language. 

regards


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## travisbickle (Mar 13, 2006)

I feel a need to intrject a thought here...A basic veal stock certainly is not rocket science, but rather an act of love. My advice here is, for the cook ay home, to make at least five gallons...to reduce down one third before straining and then freeze in quart batches. As far as method goes, that's where the love comes in. "Chef Kaiser", I understand that you must have a very direct recipe that you adhere to. That's fine. However, you must know that there are many variables that can quickly "change the weather" in your kitchen, therefore you must be able to adapt. I recomend having a basic knowledge of what makes a veal stock and henceforth, how to make its primary derivative, beef demi glace. 

Skilletlicker...Once you figure out how much stock you want to end up with after eight hours (minimum) of simmering, reduce your product with a second mire poix saute and red wine deglazing to the point where (after skimming frequently), your finished product has naturally thickened to a light syrup consistency...then season it...strain it again through a fine chinoise. 

There has been much written on this topic by many of our culinary forefathers, but the concept is simple and pure. No need here to get all high minded...just love what you are making and it will show in your end product. Take your time and have fun with it.


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## skilletlicker (Aug 19, 2005)

Travisbickle,

Thanks, I think I'm getting it. 

One clarification that you or Chef Kaiser could clear up. When he said foot I think I got fixated on that. but when he said is he explaining that what he meant by foot was the veal equivalent of a ham hock? If so that would make more sense to me. Assuming that's correct would I ask the butcher for veal shank?


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## travisbickle (Mar 13, 2006)

Hey Skillet...Yeah, man you want the bones that are cleavered in a way that the marrow will seep out whille they are roasting. "Feet"??? I've never ordred feet from my supplier. When it comes to veal bones, I say: "Cleavered bones". Because when you roast them, you want to pull out the marrow and at the same time, color the outside of the bone. The marrow will want to stick to your roasting pan. So after you remove the bones to your stock pot, you deglaze your roasting pan (I like a nice dry red wine that I would actualy drink...) and scrape up all those great little bits ad add them to your stock.

I don't know where you would want "feet". Unless...you were going to pickle them and sell them to tourists as a delicasy?


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Hi Skillet,

I'll certainly be awaiting the answers along side with you.

Don't forget to check some of the smaller grocery stores near your house. We have a Polish grocery store within a 35 minute drive that carries a good amount of Veal shanks and cut veal bones as well. I can't remember...but I'm thinking the cut veal bones were around a buck a pound. The shanks a bit more...but still not outrageous.

From time to time I'll make some veal stock and other times some glacé dE viande, which I'll use as an addition for those sauces that I want to add a little something special.

ChefTalk article; Preparing Stocks

ChefTalk article; How to Make a Brown Stock

Glace de veau Viande, Espagnole, Demi-Glace (ChefTalk Forum Thread)

Being quite ignorant on several subjects in life myself...I feel I can give some advice  Let your butcher know how ignorant you are. If you try to BS him with knowledge you don't have...he's likely to hand you only what you order. But ask him a question that your not sure of...he may give you a lesson as well 

Let us know how it turns out>>>
dan


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## skilletlicker (Aug 19, 2005)

Travisbickle,
Should the veal stock be the consistency of light syrup while still hot in the pot. I'm thinking of the way my chicken stock thickens when cooled.

What should the consistancy of the demi-glace be?


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## travisbickle (Mar 13, 2006)

Skillet...A true demi is a reduction of the veal stock with a secondary mire poix. Glace means glass. It should shimmer like a mirror, which means no cheating!!! I.E.; NO FLOUR! NO STARCH! This is a true reduction and is only seasoned at the very last moment to accompany a dish. You can mass produce a good "demi" and then freeze it and add it to, say, marsala sauces, any pan sauce you may be doing with a beef dish, or whatever your creative "inner chef" says to do! Have fun with it!


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## skilletlicker (Aug 19, 2005)

Travisbickle,
Veal stock like light syrup hot on the stove and jello in the ice box?


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## travisbickle (Mar 13, 2006)

I just saw that I didn't answer your question...After you strain your veal stock, reduce it by HALF. Strain again (I hope you have been skimming like a good boy...). It should be dark in color, "roasty" in aroma, and beefy in taste. When it cools (Have you strained it via a spicket? Or by ladeling it through a chinoise?), any fat on the top, remove by hand/finger. It should be very gelatin-like in its cold state. That's how you know you did it right. Now...assemble a mirepoix comensurrate to the ammount of veal stock you want to convert and saute until slightly brown. Deglaze your large rondoue with red wine and add your veal stock you labored over with love. Reduce by half and strian agaiin through a fine mesh. Season as you wish for garnishing steaks, or use as a flavor for other sauces.


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## plongeur (Aug 1, 2005)

Veal foot is hoof. You want them in your stock because they add collagen, the protein that thickens your stock.


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## skilletlicker (Aug 19, 2005)

Travisbickle,
You are a gentleman and a scholar and I am in your debt.

Plongeur,
Ok, so that explains the small % of foot to finished product in Chef Kaiser's formula. Would it matter whether a hoof came from a calf, cow or steer? If the butcher happened to be out of hoof what alternative sources of collagen would you ask for? Is the hoof used only to develop the stock into demi-glace or would you use it to make the stock as well? Is this a cost saving ingredient as opposed to say the collagen that might come from a hip or shoulder joint?


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## travisbickle (Mar 13, 2006)

Plongeur helped with the science to a point. The idea is that you want to get the best for your money, even when you are just buying bones. The gelatin...that's the good stuff...along with a good roasting! Point being, be picky! Even when you are buying bones. If you ask for "cleavered" bones, inspect them before you hand them your money. Be shrewd. If you have any friends that are professional cooks, ask them to take you on a "field trip" one day...with promise of much beer and food later...in order to learn first hand, walking through a market. Have fun with it!


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## travisbickle (Mar 13, 2006)

Yes! Exactly!


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## travisbickle (Mar 13, 2006)

Skillet...you want what's inside the bones mostly. Leg bones cut small...those are "candy" (All P.E.T.A. memebers, plug your ears, and take a huge bite of delicious, young veal chop. Has the Earth crumbled yet? Oh...maybe it's those weapons of mass destruction that will kill us all and not the consumption of animal product that we should worry about? MAKE VEAL STOCK!!! Veal chops, center cut pork loin stuffed with aged gouds and bacon; leg of lamb stuffed with feta and wrapped with applewood smoked bacon...If it tastes good, EAT IT! Life is short.


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## skilletlicker (Aug 19, 2005)

Dan,
Good to hear from you!
As you well know, I have no aversion to public confessions of ignorance. Generally, however, I prefer others to call it a lack of knowledge.


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## chef kaiser (Mar 12, 2006)

hi,

well myself i am not that much after the bone marrow, i am after the protein in the bones and the tendons. That is what gives you a nice meat glaze after reducing. the best bones and tendons are the once of young animals. 

well each has its own way. 

regards


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## chef kaiser (Mar 12, 2006)

Lets clarify the terminologies of "Calves Feet" 

It seems that you don't see that in your butcher shops any more. However you may still have the pig's trotter or also called fore foot and hind foot (American meat buyers guide). 

The calf feet is basically the same part and has still the skin on. You don't eat this part, as it consists basically only of bone and skin, however is loaded with protein and therefore ideal for the preparation of white or brown veal stocks or demi - glace. 

The whole veal shank - well if you can afford, it can be used too, but I rather would make Osso Buco from it, or use the bones of it only for the veal stock. 

Regards


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Like I mentioned in my other posts, if you don't have calves feet, you can use turkey or chicken wing tips. These too, are loaded with collagen and will lend the smooth suave texture and natural gelatine you're after.

You can also use pigs feet, which are easier to find. These would be be split down the middle (meat bandsaw) and blanched first. However. However pork is pork. I have worked in S.E Asia and respect the religous views of the Muslims, I also respect the religous views of the Jews. Don't know who will be eating my sauce, so in my kitchen I won't use it for this reason only. If it's for your private use, why not?


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## travisbickle (Mar 13, 2006)

Foodpump...good point. You can make a delicious roasted poultry stock in the same manner you would make a veal stock using the backs and necks of the birds. I have also made wonderful vegetable stocks with roasted product, but you don't get lovely gelatin goodness as if you used animal protein.


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## skilletlicker (Aug 19, 2005)

Thanks to everybody who spent part of last night helping me figure out what cut of veal to ask for.
The search mission today included two meat markets, including the one generally acknowledged to be the "best in town," two major and one minor chain mega-markets, a Mexican grocery with a meat counter, a Middle Eastern grocery with a meat counter and one membership only warehouse store.
Not one establishment had any veal whatsoever. Three places are going to order it but I'm not too hopeful. Two of them didn't know what veal is and neither my Spanish nor Farsi was good enough to explain it. Truth is, I don't even know what it is in English (young over-fed cattle?).


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## chef kaiser (Mar 12, 2006)

hi Foodpump, 

i absolutley agree. Further i can add for those who can not get veal bones that easy, use beef bones, like we use out here very often or better said mainly, as veal bones are imported and bloody expensive. Just make sure get as much joint bones + tendons (cut in walnut size) as possible and ensure to roast them very well. If done right you get a good base stock or sauce (demi glace). Note: it is very important to cut the bones and tendons in small pieces if you use beef bones, as the result is better. 

regards


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## skilletlicker (Aug 19, 2005)

The incredible thing is, the meat markets don't have the joints. They get their meats butchered in chunks between the joints and all they do is slice it. This was explained to me today by a meat manager in the higher end megamart I went to. I asked him for a beef hip or shoulder joint. He looked at me funny and led me to the rump roasts. I said where's the joint. He said we don't get that part. I asked for a knee or elbow. He said he just gets a piece butchered above the knee and below the hip. I can buy beef shanks or oxtails. So far, thats as close as I've been able to get.


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## skilletlicker (Aug 19, 2005)

Charlie's is the meat market that literally everyone I've talked to says is the best. They've been in business here since since 1967. They were my first stop today. Tonight I was thinking maybe I didn't ask them about beef joints like I did the super market manager because I was still hoping to find veal. I just called back and talked to Charlie's son Chuck who explained that they haven't had swinging beef in years. I asked about my options and he reminded be of short ribs which can be added to the short list including shanks and oxtails. He also gave me the name of a buddy in an adjoining county who does custom slaughters and might have joints to dispose of. Those were the whole extent of his suggestions.

Folks out there - is this the same where you live? Have we found a need waiting for some entrepreneur to fill?


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Skilletlicker: Now we've done it, we've gone and got you hooked! 

Remember James Garner in "The Great Escape"? Well, that's what alot of us Chefs are like: Constantly angling and scheming to find the best stuff, original stuff, certified organic stuff, hormone free stuff, the best prices; sales reps who don't slobber all over you, treat you like garbage, or think you don't know anything. But I'm not complaining, it's a fun challange, the longer you're in the game the more you learn about everything, and the more contacts you make.

Sounds like you're off to a good start. Chuck's giving you genuine information and isn't brushing you off, keep him in your "active" file. Just because he doesn't have what you want right now, doesn't mean he won't have what you want,-or know where to get what-, later on.

Main thing is to have fun. If you aren't having fun then it's work, and that's no fun...


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## skilletlicker (Aug 19, 2005)

Gentlemen,

My team got knocked out of the NCAA tourney so I've got time on my hands tonight. I can't get veal and I can't get beef joints but what do you think of this plan? Isn't there a lot of collagen drawn out of braised chuck roast. I love shredded braised chuck. Would the leftover liquid simmered for a few hours with roasted beef shank bones and a few veggies be anything near to a decent brown stock?


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## chef kaiser (Mar 12, 2006)

hi, 

sure go ahead, and later once you can get bones, try out all recommendations given above. 

regards


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## deltadoc (Aug 15, 2004)

Uh...by whose definition is a "true demi" a reduction of veal stock with a secondary mire poix and no flour or starch? Certainly not Escoffier...his recipe is to make the stock, then make the Espagnole sauce which is stock with mirepoix and roux (starch and fat), then equal parts of Espagnole and Stock reduced down with the addition of some dry wine (different editions specify different dry wines Sherry, etc.)

doc


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## nentony (May 7, 2005)

Skilletlicket, your butcher or grocer should be able to order them for you, if they care to make the effort. Also, if your friendly with any local restaurants, they can order from their supplier, like Sysco, etc. Thats what I do. 

Tony


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## chef kaiser (Mar 12, 2006)

Dear Deltadoc,

Would it be possible to know the book, you get the recipe from, of what you are saying is a Demi - Glace. It would be interesting to know, as it seems, that my chef 30 years ago (he was 40 at the time and a culinary crafts teacher in Switzerland too for more than 30 years before he retired just the other year) did teach me wrong. Further all the other Swiss Chefs since would practize the wrong recipe too. Actually most German and Austrain Chefs would all do it wrong too, as all our apprentice books in the 3 year culinary appreticeship program in the three countries mention the same base recipe of the Demi - Glace. 

Regards


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## deltadoc (Aug 15, 2004)

To answer your question, the source of the recipe is:

The Escoffier Cook Book and guide to the Fine Art of Cookery (An American translation of the definitive Guide Culinaire)

Crown Publishers, 1969

Recipe 22 Espagnole Sauce (annotated for brevity sake)
1 lb of brown roux dissolved in 6 qts. of brown stock, eventually adding tomatoes and about 1 lb of Mirepoix

Recipe 23 Half Glaze (Demi-Glace) (Slightly annotated for brevity's sake)
Obtained by reducing about 1 Qt. of Espagnole Sauce and 1 Qt of first-class brown stock until its volume is reduced to 9/10's of 1 Qt. to which you add 1/10 Qt of fine Sherry.

Regards,
doc


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## plongeur (Aug 1, 2005)

The point about veal, as opposed to cow, feet (hooves, OK) is that they're younger and haven't developed into hard bone - young veal bones are still growing and are full of collagen, which is what will make your stock nice and jellified when you reduce it, give it body. Anthony Bourdain has a nice recipe for it which doesn't take for ever in his Les Halles cookbook, sensible quantities for the home cook.


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## skilletlicker (Aug 19, 2005)

Plongeur, I appreciate your suggestion but I've quit the veal hunt. Honestly, I've found wives with less effort than I put into that search.

Any suggestions on developing a decent brown stock with what is available to the average retail shopper in middle America would be a great service to many!


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## deltadoc (Aug 15, 2004)

It might be cost prohibitive due to shipping, but Venison America gets 50lb boxes of veal bones from New Zealand where they're raised without antibiotics and that kind of stuff. They ship anywhere. They deliver to the Twin Cities on a regular basis, so I've made my veal stock from that lately.

www.venisonamerica.com

However, before going strictly with veal stock, I used to use Beef neck bones for beef stock. The combination of meat and bone gave a pretty good tasting stock. As Wayne Gisslen points out in his Professional Cooking, stocks used to be always made with meat and bones, but because of the higher cost of meat these days, many are using only the bones.

I was wary of that, but have found that I get a great stock (veal anyways) without using any veal meat (I used to make a beef stock from beef neck bones side by side on the cooktop with a veal stock from veal neck bones, but the source for veal neck bones dried up and I got nervous about mad cow and beef neck bones. The Beef Council informed me that young cows can't catch mad cow, so, assuming they're telling me the truth I feel safer with the veal only).

Anyway, my first attempts at Espagnole sauce made from these combined beef and veal stocks and then turning that into Demi-glace, I've decided that my demi-glace made strictly from the veal bones is much more delicate and haute cuisine. 

doc


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## ma facon (Dec 16, 2004)

After all the discussion dust settles, Do yourself a favor and create a stock that fits your needs/budget. Recipes are nothing but someone elses guidelines. Enjoy what YOU want to cook and the **** with the rest. You will be a better cook for it. Although most will have a difficult time digesting this view, Just remember that they are most likely stuck in a rut/the past etc... Live today and create the food you want to enjoy and share the results with others. More good will come out of the mistakes that you make than anyones opinion of what THEY think. After all you are unique as what hits the plate. :chef:


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## deltadoc (Aug 15, 2004)

SO, with that said, back to the easy to make middle america stock. Try Joy of Cooking, they have two brown stock recipes. One from bones, and one from browned meat. Pretty simple and it's where I started out learning to make stock.

doc


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## ma facon (Dec 16, 2004)

Let the light of new shine bright upon your decisions.:chef:


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## skilletlicker (Aug 19, 2005)

MAAAaaaAAA! If you tell them I don't give a **** what they think, they won't tell their secrets!


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## chef kaiser (Mar 12, 2006)

Doc,

Doc did you look at the demi - glace recipe i posted in cooking basic? if you carefully study it, the ingredietns i listed are actually your two recipes combined (with the exception of the Sherry), what we call a demi glace too. Except we dust the bones with flour and as there is fat from the bones, well that gives you a roux too, isnt it. (note the old traditional recipe, also lists clarified butter)

However the pocedure you mentioned with out binding with starch and say it is a demi glace, is for us a roasting jus. When we roast tender meats, we add a matignon 15 - 20 minutes before the meat is roasted, remove the meat and form there we roast the vegetables until brown, deglace with wine, add brown veal stock and reduce to desired consistency, strain, flavor, season to taste and at times monte with butter and serve. 

regards


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## deltadoc (Aug 15, 2004)

Chef Kaiser,
You asked me for the source of my recipes of Escoffier.

I provided you the recipes from the Escoffier cookbook. He called it what he called it, not me. I just repeated what I read. I take no credit for any of it. 

doc


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## chef kaiser (Mar 12, 2006)

hi doc, 

thank, no misunderstanding, appreciated. In my 5th edition French copy (Escoffier), they dont add Sherry they add a young Madeira. 

regards


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## deltadoc (Aug 15, 2004)

Hi Chef Kaiser,
That (Sherry vs. Madeira) would be consistent with my first post where I mentioned different editions (Escoffier) mention different wines to finish off the demi-glace.

I should mention that I am not a chef, although i have been cooking for almost 50 years. I find that it is quite enjoyable to me to re-produce the classic traditional dishes as would have generally been found a century or so ago almost everywhere. It's kind of like in the movie "Crossroads" where the Juliard instructor says "The discipline of the classical is very exacting"....

Pretty much no one anywhere these days in a commercial sense does things in the traditional classical fashion, so for me to enjoy what haute cuisine must have been like in the days of the Titanic or Escoffier working in London, I resort to preparing the dishes myself for me and the spouse. Trouble is, I don't have access to many ingredients, and freshness is always a problem for some items. Lack of repetition in preparation of dishes on a daily basis assuredly makes my results less than perfect!~ 

Time to go to my day job.

Regards,
doc


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## chef kaiser (Mar 12, 2006)

Dear Doc, 

i dont know how old you are, i am 44 turning 45 this year, but i believe age does not matter, as i understand what you say, as facts of commerce are clear to my eyes and their food quality, but unfortunatly the average can not see that anymore. 

Dear Doc, i will post a new thread called Easter Vacation. Thank you for beeing honnest. 

regards 

hans


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Skilletlicker...any updates? What did you come up with?


What are the rules to shipping...say veal bones? anyone know?


thanks,
dan


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## skilletlicker (Aug 19, 2005)

Thanks for asking.

I roasted 2 beef shanks, about 7 lbs. total, in 1" slices. Added a few herb and spices and 2 onions, 2 carrots and 2 celery stalks; simmered without stirring for several hours in enough water to cover. I ended up with about 2 qt. of very thick stock. There was either very little fat or the fat didn't separate in the ice box like I'm used to.

I was pretty satisfied with the first attempt at beef stock, but I suspect that I should have gotten more volume from that amount of meat.

I've given up looking for veal bones or feet. Veal shanks can be ordered but for something like $20 a lb which is too rich for my blood. Beef knuckles and necks are also unavailable. It seems my best choice for beef stock is shanks or tails.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

If you can get tails, go for it. Alot more meat (meat=flavour & body) in the tails as well as natural gelatin.

And now, a non-cooking but very important related issue. After straining the stock, freeze the bones in a garabge bag, wait unil the night before garbage pickup, an then toss the bones out. 
Should you not follow this advice, the dogs, cats, and any other animals (racoons especially, I swear those guys have little blackberries telling them who has the most choice garbage...) will knock over your cans, make a mess, and won't even compliment you on your hard work!


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

uh! did you say raccoons? Yes...I've run into this problem (they actually have always loved my garbage...but I usually always cook with bone-in products. I'll definitely be keeping this piece of information handy  Although I did buy one of those Tupperware half/sheds to keep the raccoons out. SO far this is the ONLY thing that's worked. But I'll keep your advice on throwing bones out stored away for another day...should I ever have the raccoons come back.

I suppose I should feel a bit lucky that the Polish deli by me has assorted veal bones (usually tails and shanks) for $0.99/pound. I suppose that's one of our gifts for not having fresh seafood 


take care all...and keep the raccoons away 

dan


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## skilletlicker (Aug 19, 2005)

That is a great price. In my area the megamart that always has beef shanks and oxtails sells beef shank (bones only) for .99/lb.

Maybe I could use the beef bones as bait and make racoon stock.


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## grumio (Apr 16, 2006)

See also the thread "stock question" (where my question didn't really get answered...) about pork stock.

I've made a perfectly nice stock with pork neck bones (plentiful, cheap, fresh) & chicken feet. Though after simmering for 8 hours those chicken feet really truly look like something out of a horror movie. Little baby-***** hands....


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## deltadoc (Aug 15, 2004)

Granny (Clampett) would only approve of road-kill racoon for any cooking purposes. It's been "aged"!

doc


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## skilletlicker (Aug 19, 2005)

I might have missed them, but don't recall chicken feet in the market. Out of idle curiosity; how much a pound? I don't recall seeing pork neck bones either.

Although it may not be stock I save the liquid left over from braised pork butt and use it like I might a pork stock. Also I like the drippings from baked ham in beans.

I want the Granny Clampett cookbook.

The offended gourmands have my apologies in advance!


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## grumio (Apr 16, 2006)

The chicken feet were .99/lb; the pork neck bones were .69/lb. This was at a market (Jons) in Los Angeles that caters to... well, the folks in East Hollywood. Armenians, Russians, Thais, Mexicans, Salvadorans, and unemployed actors.


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## kardon (Feb 5, 2008)

Yeah veal bones can be tough to find.Surprised you cant find beef bones that are dirt cheap.Last night I got about ten pounds of beef bones and package of neck meat.The bones where about eight bucks and the two pounds of necks where about two bucks and some change.Market basket tends to always have them if there is one in your area.


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