# seasoning a new iron pan ???



## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

I was going to follow the procedure from volrath for seasoning my new buyer pan. the pan doesnt feel smooth like I thought it would it is more sticky like before I washed it and I must not have a good original coating of oil as it is very spotty.


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## raibeaux (Dec 21, 2012)

Just got back from putting fire on the pit, and ran across this. Not sure if it's too late or not, but this will give you the information you want. There's no difference in cast iron and carbon steel as far as the seasoning process goes.

The Vollrath video is sort of how I'm doing a carbon steel right now. The trick is to wipe all the flax seed oil off you can. Use several paper towels until one comes out dry. You're not looking for an oil buildup, you're looking for polymerization. I don't have a gas burner, so I'm using the convection oven. I preheat to 475 with the pan inside. After the pan has been in there for about twenty minutes, I take it out and oil it. Then paper towel it til it's dry. The first six times or so I also did the exterior. It's getting there. I leave the oven on for three hours, and let it cool down overnight with the pan inside.

Here is the site that will tell you what you want to know:

http://sherylcanter.com/wordpress/2010/01/a-science-based-technique-for-seasoning-cast-iron/

Sounds like you didn't get it dry enough. Don't know how that would shake out.

Sometime during the ten or fifteen "curings" you will most likely discover just how hot a 475 degree carbon steel pan feels to the skin.

Also, type in "seasoning carbon steel wok" on youtube and look for a Chinese guy next to a wok burner. He's a cool dude. Not his first rodeo.


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## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

So I think i am reading you right.  You take the pan out from the 475 while still on then add oil and towel immedietly?  Is the oil not just burning the 2nd you touch the pan with it?

Ok I suppose I am probably just being impatient in my seasoning and should know that it takes time.  I am just to restricted on time it hurts my productivity. 

I did steel wool the entire cooking surface last night to start over.  I cleaned the pan again and the did the procedure from de buyer as that is the mfg of the pan I am using.  It looks more evenly when I did the 1st seasoning again but with there process. I think it still feels a little tacky but this is my first time seasoning a pan, I have always had teflon coated pans in the past.  I am learning everyday I come to this site and read. I just need to have more time in my days as I know everyone could use also.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

I recall your initial saga with seasoning this pan... or at least I thought it was you but I can't seem to find the original thread where I thought this was being discussed.

I think you are just in need of a little more patience.  Seasoning takes time... it is rarely a one-shot deal.  You actually were on the right path before the steel wool, but no problems... you are just starting at the beginning again.

I don't like the "heat then oil" method -- too dangerous.  You can get the same effect from "oil then heat". 

Wipe your pan with a little more oil and rub until it appears to disappear.  Then put it in the oven at 350 or so for an hour... upside down.  Then turn oven off and let it cool in place.

Then start cooking.  At first you will need more oil than you will later on.  The real seasoning happens from usage as much as this initial seasoning treatments.  At home where pan gets used less than in commercial kitchen this just takes time.  Be patient.  Keep moviing forward and don't go backward again.  You'll get there and they you'll really love the pan.


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## raibeaux (Dec 21, 2012)

From the article:

"The reason for the very hot oven is to be sure the temperature is above the oil's smoke point, and to maximally accelerate the release of free radicals. Unrefined flaxseed oil actually has the lowest smoke point of any oil (see this table). But the higher the temperature the more it will smoke, and that's good for seasoning (though bad for eating - _do not let oils smoke during cooking_)."

Unrefined canola oil225°F107°CUnrefined flaxseed oil225°F107°CUnrefined safflower oil225°F107°CUnrefined sunflower oil225°F107°CUnrefined corn oil320°F160°CUnrefined high-oleic sunflower oil320°F160°CExtra virgin olive oil320°F160°CUnrefined peanut oil320°F160°CSemirefined safflower oil320°F160°CUnrefined soy oil320°F160°CUnrefined walnut oil320°F160°CHemp seed oil330°F165°CButter350°F177°CSemirefined canola oil350°F177°CCoconut oil350°F177°CUnrefined sesame oil350°F177°CSemirefined soy oil350°F177°CVegetable shortening360°F182°CLard370°F182°CMacadamia nut oil390°F199°CRefined canola oil400°F204°CSemirefined walnut oil400°F204°CHigh quality (low acidity) extra virgin olive oil405°F207°CSesame oil410°F210°CCottonseed oil420°F216°CGrapeseed oil420°F216°CVirgin olive oil420°F216°CAlmond oil420°F216°CHazelnut oil430°F221°CPeanut oil440°F227°CSunflower oil440°F227°CRefined corn oil450°F232°CPalm oil450°F232°CPalm kernel oil450°F232°CRefined high-oleic sunflower oil450°F232°CRefined peanut oil450°F232°CRefined Safflower oil450°F232°CSemirefined sesame oil450°F232°CRefined soy oil450°F232°CSemirefined sunflower oil450°F232°COlive pomace oil460°F238°CExtra light olive oit468°F242°CSoybean oil495°F257°CSafflower oil510°F266°CAvocado oil520°F
271°C

You don't really get any smoke at high temperatures because there's so little oil on the pan. Just talking about smoke points.

Right now I'm working on three new carbon steel pans and six new Lodge cast irons. So far, so good, though I wish I could have found some "non-pre-seasoned" Lodges. Time is relevant. I'm just taking my time and doing a seasoning session when the mood hits me. I will probably start cooking after about fifteen go-'rounds. Probably not necessary, and I am glad that the electric meter doesn't differentiate between appliances. If I knew how much this was costing in juice I may not be so anal about it.

Good luck with your project.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

... not to disrupt the thread, but since you mention pre-seasoned cast iron may I ask your opinion of that?  I have not had much luck with it and find that it needs just as much traditional seasoning effort as an old un-seasoned pan.  I think (personal opinion only) the pre-seasoning is more for rust prevention during storage/shipping, and "shelf appeal", as anything else.  I'm more inclined to buy old pans from yard sales and refurbush them than buy the same or similar in a new pre-seasoned condition.  What is your experience?


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

My experience with pre-seasoned cast iron is about the same as yours.  However, I don't think I'm quite as critical or disappointed as you are, and don't regard the seasoning process whether from "new" or "pre-seasoned" as being as much of a bother.  But those differences are are marginal. 

BDL


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

errr... ummm... it's not about disappointment or bother... I never said that.  We agree that seasioning isn't much of a bother.  Many people seem to make it much mroe complex than it really is.  I should have added "given the choice" to the sentence expressing my preference.  It's about cost... it's cheaper to buy old cast iron than new.   And the old stuff might even be better quality -- whatever that really means in this context.  That is what I'm most critical of when buying cast iron.   I'm thrifty and sentimental... you should know that about me.


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## raibeaux (Dec 21, 2012)

Before they started the pre-seasoning thing, Lodge shipped with a coating of "something" to prevent rust. Just clean it off and start seasoning. Just my opinion, but I wish they still offered non-pre-seasoned.

I'm not at all clear on how well seasoning works on top of the new pre-seasoning, but I'm doing it and it seems to be going ok. One of my skillets came in rough as a cob, though...even rougher than normal. Will be interesting what I can make of that one

.

Another "trick" I came across that I use is to use a metal spatula when you cook. Though pretty much microscopic, it does seem to knock off some high spots of the iron as you use it. Since I'm so anal about things, when I clean a skillet, I scrape the bottom lightly with an upside down flexible spatula I use to get the grease out. Doesn't take but a second, and seems to help. I use a Dexter Sani-Safe 2 1/2 x 4. Love that little thing. I *occasionally* heat 1/4 inch of Crisco as if I'm going to cook, let it heat for ten or fifteen minutes as if I'm cooking, and then let it cool down to solid again. I think that helps.

I think the preseasoning actually makes it harder to season properly. Maybe even impossible to get the old-fashioned teflon-like finish. The original Griswolds and Wagners were made of a higher grade of iron or something. Even the later Griswolds weren't of the same quality is my understanding. I can, though, cook fried eggs over easy in my Lodges and they slide around pretty good. No sticking unless I get the heat too high. Even then, not much.

There are people who actually remove the preseasoning and start from scratch. Some of them sandblast, but that's not good from what I understand. Some use a sander. Most seem to use an oven cleaner that contains Lye.

They also use this to start over with an old pan. They put the cleaner on heavy, put the skillet into a plastic trash bag and leave it for two or three days and repeat as necessary. Some have suggested running it through a self-clean cycle in the oven, but others say it can crack the iron. I wouldn't do that. But a LOT of the old heads around here say they stick it in a fireplace and let it burn off. I won't do that, but what the heck.

Sometime next week I'm going to take a new pre-seasoned Lodge and submerge it in carburetor cleaner and see what that does. Don't see why it won's work, since it will remove carbon from pistons. I won't use it at the restaurant, gonna first see if I die using it at home, if it works. Maybe get one of those tox-screens they do on the TV crime shows. <[ : ^ )

I think the Vollrath guy got it right on the seasoning, but I don't have a gas burner. I think what I'm doing with three hours at 475 with a slow cooldown is best for me. Two hours would probably be just as good. I also am convinced that the oil should be put on at least a warm skillet, and wiped dry. Can't see oil much, but it's there. Vollrath seasoned his 11 times. I'm going for 15 in the oven.

If this doesn't work I'm calling Escoffier via seance. It's worked with the cast iron, we'll see with the carbon. My wife says I'm nutz. You can, too. It's OK. I understand perfectly.


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## jimbo68 (Feb 3, 2012)

My two cents:

If you feel tackiness to the pan after coming from the oven, the coat of oil was probably too thick.  You want the oil to polymerize.  Thick coats gell instead.

The point of preheating the pan is to get it dry.  This is not necessarily the only way, and a quick time on the stove top will do as well.  You do not need to spread the oil on a hot pan.

Old CI IMO is way better than new Lodge or most other brands.  Old CI was machined flat prior to selling.  Lodge has been very successful in convincing the public that an unfinished casting is as smooth as a machined surface.  Non stick is non stick because it is smooth and mostly pore free.  Old is also generally cheaper as long as you stay away from the collectibles.

If you want to remove an old finish, oven cleaner will work, or submersion in a lye tank.  My lye tank is an old 5 gallon food safe bucket from a restaurant.  They throw these away, just ask, and standard lye drain cleaner.  You can use it over and over.  A few days will remove the old finish, be it new Lodge or 10 generations of grandma's cooking.  Every so often take it out, hose it off and look at the results.  Read the instructions on the lye container.  It can be dangerous if misused.  The choice of oil for seasoning is debatable.  I use flaxseed, others swear at it or by it.  So too other oils.  Lard was used for centuries.

Seasoning a pan takes a while, but it not time consuming.  It takes only a minute to coat the pan.  After that turn the oven off after an hour or so and let it cool.  Repeat.

Using a well seasoned iron or carbon steel pan is a joy, a bad one is as frustrating as a bad any other pan.  It is well worth the effort,


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## hpross (Feb 5, 2013)

Ive done "a little" experimenting with cast iron seasoning.

The bottom line if that polymerizing oils is not the best use of your time IMHO. it would never be done in a professional kitchen, if something needed to be that non stick a small sheet of silicone paper in any pan would work, or one of the many other non stick pan materials (telfon, ceramic etc.)

I season in 2 steps, first filling with rock salt and heating to a high temperature, putting in a little oil (it will spit) and wiping the pan with a towel. Second by rinsing out the salt with oil and then letting the pan cool with a film of oil on it.

Before I use it next, i heat up the pan (super hot), let it cool a little - then pour in my oil, butter etc. wait till it dances and start cooking. From here i never wash - ONLY wipe out.... i then heat the pan next time i use it to such a temperature that bacteria could not survive and perhaps wipe it out with a little more oil.

Water is the enemy of a well seasoned pan - as it removes oil (what is preventing the pan from rusting) and allows water to seep inbetween layers of seasoning that will build up over time, creating steam when heated and giving you lovely little black bits in your food/img/vbsmilies/smilies/mad.gif.

Bear in mind that it will take about a month or two of everyday cooking (burning food can help) to develop a rich black color... if your pans are more for show, then perhaps the flax seed oil route is more you thing. they sure look pretty after.

HP


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## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

I did the slow method of coating and then baking for an hour, I did this 6 times then decide to try it out.  I add some oil to the pan but probably not enough as my egg beaters stuck badly and caked on the pan.  I decided to clean it all off and just use  one coat of oil then did some bacon in it. I then wiped it out and did a quick cleaning. The fat from the bacon burnt to a char like on the pan. I am planning on making more bacon to sacrifice it as my seasoning and I will force myself to eat it as wel.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Yes... that is the raod to success.  Bacon is good.  Hamburgers is good too... 80/20 or even better is 70/30.  Hey... the ideal would be a couple of weeks worth of bacon burgers for dinner!  Keep up the good work!


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## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

Thanks for the words of encuragment. I will continue on.  I am wanting to get this pan working so I can prove to my wife I didn't just waste money for the hell of it.


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## hpross (Feb 5, 2013)

nice one man! burning is a good thing. burning means carbonization (blackening), the next step is polymerization (hardened oils) of the remaining fats. fat+burning is your friend. dont forget to clean it properly and keep that bacon sizzling!


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## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

HPross said:


> nice one man! burning is a good thing. burning means carbonization (blackening), the next step is polymerization (hardened oils) of the remaining fats. fat+burning is your friend. dont forget to clean it properly and keep that bacon sizzling!


So how should I exactly clean this pan. Some say water, some say just wipe out and reapply oil?


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

... and others say just wipe it out (without adding oil).

I use hot water and a non-abrasive scubbing brush on mine.  If gooey stuff that just won't come off I've used dishwashing detergent and haven't noticed all that much of a seasoning loss... but I'm very much a minority opinion in that technique.


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## chicagoterry (Apr 3, 2012)

Roasting a chicken in my latest cast iron skillet acquisition did the trick as far as rendering it fairly non-stick is concerned. The chicken itself stuck like crazy at first but once it was finished, the pan was properly seasoned--finally--after a week of baking on thin layers of oil.

I do use a small squirt of detergent when cleaning up and haven't noticed it harming the seasoning, either, but like Michael in the post above, I am probably a minority opinion on this point.


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## hpross (Feb 5, 2013)

You can clean it a variety of ways.

The important thing not to do is scrape the pan - removing the seasoned "layer". you can use water, especially if you really burn something on there, but do not to scrub to hard and do not allow the pan to soak. im not a fan of soaping, as "seasoning" is oil based and most dishwasher fluid is lipophilic (can be absorbed by fat). HEAT kills bacteria - not dawn.

In the kitchen, i give them a quick rinse with water and get rid of the big bits. then I grab a bunch of paper towel and wipe it out. this is easier to do when the pan is still hot/warm. for stubborn spots ill take a little oil and salt and rub it with some more paper towel. The I put a little bit more oil in if necessary. 

The most important part of seasoning this way is to heat the pan up hot before use, then put your oil in and move it around the pan.. It will kill bacteria as well as get the pan ready for cooking. this is how it was done back in the day. Oil to prevent rusting, Polymerization for non stick. Heat to keep clean and kill bacteria.


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## deputy (Jan 16, 2012)

Slight deviation from the point of the thread, but related...

What's the point? Why go to ALL of this trouble? If it's for the non-stick nature, a good, safe (PFOA free) non-stick pan can be had for about $8 at any discount home store. If it's for the heat retention, well, how many times do you need that type of heat retention? What can't you do with a (much easier to maintain) high quality, heavy stainless steel pan? Is it about the cost?

That's the only thing that I can think of is cost...you can buy a nice CI pan for $2 at yard sale and then you put 20 hours of time into seasoning it so that it's non-stick or buy one for $30 and still put the same time in.

I'm not judging - I'm asking legitimately. It _appears_ to the uninitiated and uneducated (me) that it's an awful lot of trouble with very little gain. Someone please enlighten me.


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## hpross (Feb 5, 2013)

A few reasons are:
- heat retention, great for sealing meat
- heat evenness, no hot spots
- can cook on any heat source (gas/ceramic/induction or oven) 
- indestructible, can often give them to grandkids, or get them. 
- cause that's the way grandma did it. Teflon used to be safe - now we know otherwise. Cast iron is proven safe by grandmas' grandma. 

The first 4 are the reasons I use them. You can buy other pans that will be comparable, but it won't be an $8 dollar store thing. We talk alot about seasoning because it turns a great pan (almost any cast iron) into one of the best pans in your kitchen (even heating and non stick). Especially for protein. Plus u can probally pick one up for a buck at a yard sale.


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## chicagoterry (Apr 3, 2012)

Also:

You can get it really hot--which is not the case with commercial non-stick finishes which usually explicitly state that such finishes should not be used over high heat.

It goes from stovetop to oven to under the broiler with no worries.

Add a lid and the even heat retention makes it into a great braising dish, either on the burner or in the oven.

Have you ever had cornbread made in a cast iron skillet? It just plain tastes better than cornbread made in any other kind of pan.


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## deputy (Jan 16, 2012)

HPross said:


> A few reasons are:
> - heat retention, great for sealing meat
> - heat evenness, no hot spots
> - can cook on any heat source (gas/ceramic/induction or oven)
> ...


Well, aside from the myth that juices are sealed in by searing (it's not true, scientifically speaking - the true flavour gains are in the maillard reaction), I get that. So I guess, in my case, there isn't much point (based on the quality of the cookware that I own and that I don't buy into the safety thing - I'm sure cooking in raw iron isn't all that great for you either, in the long run...and my grandma's grandma lived a lot shorter life than most people nowadays).

But I get it, so thanks for that explanation.


ChicagoTerry said:


> Also:
> 
> You can get it really hot--which is not the case with commercial non-stick finishes which usually explicitly state that such finishes should not be used over high heat.
> 
> ...


I see. I have never made cornbread, no. I use an enameled cast iron as a braising dish, so I get the point.

Thanks to you both.


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## hpross (Feb 5, 2013)

Deputy said:


> Well, aside from the myth that juices are sealed in by searing (it's not true, scientifically speaking - the true flavour gains are in the maillard reaction), I get that.


sealing - searing - browning... all them same process. agreed, it makes meat taste delicious - they take place through caramelization/maillard reaction and doesn't help to retain liquid. just a little slip of the tongue, though i should know better - especially after hearing all the blumenthal, potter and mcgee ideas on the topic.

As for the safety thing - if you are searing meat, then this will be the pan you use with the highest heat. Copper, teflon and aluminium all have more safety issues than cast iron. Without doubt you can google, and find stuff that says that all pan materials are bad - but from a professional standpoint, i would say cast iron is the safest.

Another reason to season the pan correctly is to ensure that you are not cooking on raw iron (aside from when you are seasoning a pan) but on the "seasoned" layer of polymerized lipids and cooking oils that create a "non-stick" surface.

For $5 i really recommend try it, nothing puts the sear on a steak like a cast iron.


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## deputy (Jan 16, 2012)

Hmm, so I've heard. I'll put my local garage salers on finding me a cheapo. Won't hurt to have one.


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## michaelga (Jan 30, 2012)

tbh - it is not this hard. This thread reminds me of one on how a 'professional' changes a light bulb.

'Making a mountain out of a mole hill' is also an apt description.

I'll stop now.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Ya, brilliant observation. You could say the same about almost every thread in every discussion board on the internet. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif


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## dropkick (Feb 3, 2013)

I haven't read all your posts in this thread, but I thought I'd add this: Boiled beef fat works best for seasoning cast.

I'm not going to tell you how I came up with this, but this is how I prepare the fat.

I cut the fat off of my beef (or get it from a butcher) then I boil it for a 1/2 hour or more. Then I fry what's left on medium low heat and pour off the liquid fat I'll use to season (I usually do this in the pan I'm going to season) and then I feed what's left to my dog..

I don't know if using the fat without boiling it first would work as well, I just know I get a cleaner fat with a higher temperature melting point this way

. -I've been meaning to try suet, but I never have.


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## cheeserules (Jun 10, 2009)

Am an older cook and inherited several cast iron skillets. I once taught biol. chem. and a bit of science. Fat is a small molecule and the saturated animal,fats hold up well to the heat. My grandmother just saved bacon grease, strained it and seasoned it in a low oven. Sorry about the above post. A stray finger hit send.


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## dario (Feb 21, 2013)

Deputy said:


> Slight deviation from the point of the thread, but related...
> 
> What's the point? Why go to ALL of this trouble? If it's for the non-stick nature, a good, safe (PFOA free) non-stick pan can be had for about $8 at any discount home store. If it's for the heat retention, well, how many times do you need that type of heat retention? What can't you do with a (much easier to maintain) high quality, heavy stainless steel pan? Is it about the cost?
> 
> ...


Thank you. I've reached the same conclusion. I had another post a couple of weeks back about seasoning my CI. I got several excellent replies. And I've read a ton about seasoning. If I distill all that down, here is what I come away with:

1. CI needs special care. You don't want to get it wet too often, or use soap, or scrub the crap out of it. This is all fine, but this requires more time and a different routine. When I have 6 pots to scrub clean, I'd prefer to just quickly move through them.

2. You have to be careful what you put in it. Ummm, I have kids who are going use these pans. If one time cooking tomato sauce can ruin hours of my effort seasoning, I just can't sustain it.

3. Some people feel it takes time to season a pan well. I think one reply I get mentioned "years" of time. Why would I want to wait years for a pan to be completely usable?

I think CI cooks great. I don't agree that it doesn't have hot spots - it seems to have some. It seems like my tri-ply SS pan browns a steak more evenly. So does my copper pan with SS lining. CI obviously has better heat retention. But so does enameled CI when I want a pan/pot that retains heat.

I see a lot of cons. The one pro is that it's cheap, which I do like. For me, less finicky cookware is a better way to go.


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## raibeaux (Dec 21, 2012)

You may need to lower the heat.  Get it hot on medium, and give it time to equalize a little--touch the sides they should be hot.  Then turn it up to med-high before you put in the steak, etc.  Give it time to heat up to cooking temp, probably another two minutes or so.  Don't move the steak for two or three minutes.  At all.  Then flip.

Acids will screw it up.  Use your tri-ply for that.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Cast iron and carbon steel have their care quirks but also have performance characteristics not available in other cookware. All have their time and place. 

Cast iron can be heated to brutal temps that will destroy non-stick pans, warp aluminum or clad pans. So you can lay on a fabulous sear for a steak, blacken fish and so on. And it is still very much non-stick.  On the other hand, cast iron is a pretty poor conductor of heat, which is part of why it retains heat so well. If you use it on an induction burner, you can heat the part over the induction coils to very high heat while the rest of the pan remains much cooler. Induction is very fast at transferring heat to the pan and really shows how slow cast iron conducts.

Carbon steel, like cast iron, can take high heat and be quite non stick. It will warp however. It is also a better conductor of heat. These traits are good for the wok for example. Non-stick surfaces can't take the heat of wok, nor the stirring action with the specially shaped spatula. Carbon steel is less reactive than cast iron but doesn't hold the seasoning as well as cast iron either.

Both cast iron and carbon steel pans lay on a sear and generate fond like a stainless clad pan while still releasing like a non-stick pan. Nonstick pans are very poor at browning.

Remember, the original claim to fame of a non-stick pan was easy clean up, not it's great cooking properties. I like non-stick pans for eggs, fish, and many one-pan casseroles. I love my cast iron for cooking potatoes, meat, pan cakes, dutch babies. If I'm just frying eggs, I'm happy to use cast iron. It's more when it comes to scrambles and omelets that I reach for non-stick.  I have one 10" cast iron pan I can do omelets in, but its still a bit finicky compared to non-stick.  I have cast iron muffin pans that I pre-heat and make a great popover in. The heat stored in the muffin pan really improves them . I have two cast iron pizza pans I've come to prefer over a baking stone for breads and pizzas. They also double as a great griddle.

Coated cast-iron is nice to cook in too, especially for soups and stews. I find it more finicky about care and harder to clean than cast iron, but admit that comes down to personal preference.


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## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

@darioThere's a point you didn't considered: Taste (i know i'm getting into troubles here).A well seasoned CS pan, or wok, will transmit distinguishable nuances of taste to your food.


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## dario (Feb 21, 2013)

ordo said:


> @dario There's a point you didn't considered: Taste (i know i'm getting into troubles here). A well seasoned CS pan, or wok, will transmit distinguishable nuances of taste to your food.


You need to help me with this one - what sort of taste? Unless I'm not cleaning my CI pan, how is it going to transfer taste to my food? If I want seasoning, I'd prefer to add it myself rather than leaving it up to the pan.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Not that I speak for Ordo, but I think he's getting at the idea of Wok Hei.

This is largely a by product of very high heat cooking, the intense searing, the ability to stir the food without sticking and such so that it doesn't burn in the case of Chinese food.

Wok Hei dissipates fairly quickly and is at the core of the instructions "serve immediately" in many Chinese recipes.


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## chicagoterry (Apr 3, 2012)

About flavor and CI--Even if I didn't use it for anything else, I'd keep a cast iron skillet on hand solely to make cornbread. It doesn't taste as good made in any other kind of pan. You heat the pan in the oven with a liberal amount of butter, then pour the batter in and the bread gets a fabulous brown crust. It can't be duplicated with any other surface.

Dutch babies are also best made in CI for the same reason.


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## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

This is going to be tricky to explain, and discussable, but I experimented that the thin layer of carbon and polymerized oils in carbon steel pans and woks, and cast iron pans and pots also, impart a distinctive flavor to the food. So, you season a pan not only to get it non stick, but also for the added flavor. It has to be some kind of molecular transfer, and yes, is related to wok hei.

Same with grills. If you super clean a grill you will be giving up flavor. Instead, if you let a layer of carbon grow there the result is totally different.


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## dario (Feb 21, 2013)

ordo said:


> This is going to be tricky to explain, and discussable, but I experimented that the thin layer of carbon and polymerized oils in carbon steel pans and woks, and cast iron pans and pots also, impart a distinctive flavor to the food. So, you season a pan not only to get it non stick, but also for the added flavor. It has to be some kind of molecular transfer, and yes, is related to wok hei.
> 
> Same with grills. If you super clean a grill you will be giving up flavor. Instead, if you let a layer of carbon grow there the result is totally different.


Understand - I get the point of wok cooking. I grew up eating szechuan food and have appreciation for good food that comes from a properly used wok. Little is better, imo.


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## dario (Feb 21, 2013)

ordo said:


> This is going to be tricky to explain, and discussable, but I experimented that the thin layer of carbon and polymerized oils in carbon steel pans and woks, and cast iron pans and pots also, impart a distinctive flavor to the food. So, you season a pan not only to get it non stick, but also for the added flavor. It has to be some kind of molecular transfer, and yes, is related to wok hei.
> 
> Same with grills. If you super clean a grill you will be giving up flavor. Instead, if you let a layer of carbon grow there the result is totally different.


I 'll take your word for it. I haven't noticed this, but will try. I'm doing an informal experiment cooking steaks. I change up the pans and see what the finance has to say about them. Could be that I'm cooking differently with different pans, not exactly scientific. I don't expect there will be much difference. I do like finishing my steak in the oven sometimes, and for some reason the CI seems do this better, but I can't say why. SS and copper both go in the oven just as well.

btw, so far she seems to like the sear best from the copper. I suspect that's because I can't quickly add some sear where it needs it toward the end of cooking. Likely need my CI hotter to start with.

There's no question the CI cooks well. I just don't want the maintenance hassle and limited use of the pans.


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## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

You should try a raw cast iron grill pan. It will take some time to season it (with the steak fat), but it's unbeatable in terms of flavor. Unless you have access to a wood grill, of course.


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## just delicious (Jan 16, 2013)

It's been a month since your post. Wondering how your seasoning of the preseasonef Lodge had come along?


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## cheeserules (Jun 10, 2009)

I've used a CI frying pan since 1972. It browns more evenly, seals meats well. I bake no knead bread in it,and use it to mash, squash and flatten things. I have an instant hot water faucet that lets loose 190 degree water. It softens anything stuck to it and is as easy as bacon grease and an oven to season. I will leave it to my nephew who is a promising cook. Did I forget I braise in it I adore no stick skillets and the new ceramic ones are a joy, but I'll never give up old CI. Last take on it. At my age it is good exercise to lift it for strength training.


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## salparadise (Mar 19, 2012)

dario said:


> Thank you. I've reached the same conclusion. I had another post a couple of weeks back about seasoning my CI. I got several excellent replies. And I've read a ton about seasoning. If I distill all that down, here is what I come away with:
> 
> 1. CI needs special care. You don't want to get it wet too often, or use soap, or scrub the crap out of it. This is all fine, but this requires more time and a different routine. When I have 6 pots to scrub clean, I'd prefer to just quickly move through them.
> 
> ...


Dario,

I think you're drawing the wrong conclusions. The number of words written about CI is not correlated to the amount of trouble to maintain. I have an old Lodge that my mother and grandmother used, so it's probably older than I am (50s). I use it for frying meat, potatoes and making cornbread mostly but also for other stuff. It's quite versatile. True, you don't want to boil tomatoes in it but adding a few tomatoes to a recipe isn't going to hurt it. As for cleaning, hot water rinse and wipe it out is usually all that's necessary. Dry with a towel and hang it up. If there is cooked on stuff you just heat the pan up and put a little water in and let it boil a minute and it will wipe out clean. You can use a few drops of dishwashing liquid without hurting it. The polymerized finished is more durable that the impression you've gotten.

I have 3 DeBuyer carbon steel pans and the same ease of handling and performance applies. I did a few simple oil and heat seasoning steps and started cooking bacon and burgers and soon thereafter frying eggs on that beautiful non-stick surface. Anything I put in those pans will crust nicely and then slide around with a shake. You're just not going to get the same searing and crusting with a teflon pan, and I doubt you'll get the evenness of heating. You'll ruin teflon if you heat it up to the highest temps used to sear meat. I also have a stainless try-ply sauté and it has it's uses but is not equivalent. I have a calphalon non-stick and I never use it anymore.

There is something wonderful that exists beyond what you can deduce. Just take people at their word-- it's more pleasurable to cook with, will perform better, last longer, cost less, and doesn't flake off into your food. Did I mention cornbread? It's true. I've had southern country folk rave about the cornbread made in that skillet. If you try one you won't go back.


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## jake t bud (Feb 25, 2013)

salparadise said:


> dario said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you. I've reached the same conclusion. I had another post a couple of weeks back about seasoning my CI. I got several excellent replies. And I've read a ton about seasoning. If I distill all that down, here is what I come away with:
> ...


Yeah. A quick wipe with a paper towel when it's warmish, or let cool and put hot water, pot scraper /brush with no soap, and wipe again with a towel or put on the heat to evaporate any water. It's not really that hard.

Also, I read somewhere that if you heat teflon to over 400 degrees it starts to break down and you end up eating it.

At the same time, I read a study where they made beans in a cast iron and stainless steel pans. Same method and recipe, and the CI had a higher Iron content. High Iron = good for you.


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## dario (Feb 21, 2013)

Jake is a said:


> Yeah. A quick wipe with a paper towel when it's warmish, or let cool and put hot water, pot scraper /brush with no soap, and wipe again with a towel or put on the heat to evaporate any water. It's not really that hard.
> 
> Also, I read somewhere that if you heat teflon to over 400 degrees it starts to break down and you end up eating it.
> 
> At the same time, I read a study where they made beans in a cast iron and stainless steel pans. Same method and recipe, and the CI had a higher Iron content. High Iron = good for you.


Replying to Jake and Sal.

Not sure why you guys are comparing CI to nonstick. I could generally care less about non-stick. I have one Calphalon NS pan I use for eggs. For me it's about CI vs. aluminum, SS, or carbon steel. I have owned CI before - my experience is that it it's not that easy to maintain. This may be redundant, but two experiences I had in the last year:

First example: Had a pan that didn't want to keep seasoning in it. Went through a fairly long seasoning process with flaxseed oil. Looked great when I was done. Somebody cooked a steak in it and left the grease sitting in the pan for a day. When I went to clean it the seasoning was gone. (EDIT: gone in the bottom where the grease had sat for day.) Second example: somebody threw a can of tomatoes in a CI dutch oven (with other ingredients). Had a perfect line where the level of the ingredients were on the pan where the seasoning was gone. That's too finicky for me.

I get that you guys don't seem to have these problems. Perhaps I'm not careful enough. But if so, that's part of the point. I don't want to have to work that hard to maintain my cookware. Right now my favorite pan is an SS lined copper saucier. I hate the handle and the weight, and that there's no helper handle. But it cooks great and cleans up easily. Second favorite pan is probably an Allclad 10" fry pan for similar reasons.

I recently got a de buyer carbon steel pan and so far it's cooking great. I got it too hot last night and some potatoes stuck to it badly. May have screwed up my seasoning - not sure yet. (Used salt to scrub out some of the stuck-on stuff). So far it heats fantastically evenly - seems far more even than my CI pans and is much easier to handle.


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## dario (Feb 21, 2013)

Update and a question: 

Still have my CI pans and just used one for steak last night. Seared it well on the stove and finished in a 450 degree oven. Came out great. Did the same thing in my copper saucier. It came out equally well. It's possible the sear from the CI was better, but too close to call. If all I'm going to use CI for us grilling steak, it's still not worth keeping for me. 70% of time use an outdoor grill anyway. 

Still liking my CS pan a lot, but I don't really see it keeping much seasoning in the bottom. I watched a video recently of a chef showing how to make an omelet with a CS pan (sorry - don't have the link handy). He commented that one of the reasons it worked so well is that his pan has 20 years of seasoning. However, the pan looked like CS on the bottom and had some darkening on the sides. How can CS be seasons (covered with polymerized oil) and still be the color (roughly) of a new CS pan. It looked to me like all the polymer was cleaned off the bottom and still adhering to the sides. Can 20 years worth of polymerized oil be clear? 

Not trying to start a pan seasoning war, just trying to understand how a pan can have 20 years of seasoning and still look like raw CS. Either I'm missing something, or people are not getting the seasoning they think they are. 

And in that video I attribute the ease with which his omelet slid out of the pan to the 2 Tbs of clarified butter in the bottom of the pan and the 1 Tbs of butter he put in the egg. With that much butter I could cook a an omelet on a rock and not have it stick.


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