# Expiry date of alcoholic drink after the bottle has been opened



## josh71 (Jan 15, 2015)

Is there such thing as "expired date" of alcoholic drink after the bottle has been opened?

I have couple of small bottles of *vodka*, *cognac*, and *pastis*, which I used to have experiment with food long time ago.

Making lobster sauce was one of them.

But, again, that was quite long time ago, almost 5 years, and since then I have never touched it.

I store them in dry cool cupboard without any kind of special or whatnot, just let them stand there 

Note that I don't drink alcohol because I will easily get headache 

Use it for making sauce is ok.

Thanks.


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

As far as I know there is no legally established expiration date to such things however

- hard alcohols will lose their alcohol over time

- liqueurs will eventually get bugs

So I'd throw them out about a month after opening.

I seldom drink alcohol because when I did, I did not stop, and it became a problem.


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

products having a alcohol content above 20% (40 proof) are self preserving i.e. they will last almost for ever.

The taste profile may change after opening though.

Luc H.


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

Luc, you are correct, however alcohol evaporates more readily than water thus if the bottle is left open, or is substantially empty it will lose potency over time.  I am not sure how much this matters for cooking, but it DOES matter if you are drinking it straight, and DOES matter if you are trying to get drunk.


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

Bob Hyneman said:


> Luc, you are correct, however alcohol evaporates more readily than water thus if the bottle is left open, or is substantially empty it will lose potency over time. I am not sure how much this matters for cooking, but it DOES matter if you are drinking it straight, and DOES matter if you are trying to get drunk.


Hypothetically speaking, yes alcohol evaporates more quickly than water but in reality, alcohol won't readily evaporate away (at room temperature) from an unsealed yet corked/recapped bottle which is what I assume everybody does. (I doubt the OP or anyone leaves his bottles literally unopened in his cupboard)

Luc H.


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## cerise (Jul 5, 2013)

Josh71 said:


> Is there such thing as "expired date" of alcoholic drink after the bottle has been opened?
> 
> I have couple of small bottles of *vodka*, *cognac*, and *pastis*, which I used to have experiment with food long time ago.
> 
> ...


I'd like to know more about the booze-y lobster sauce./img/vbsmilies/smilies/cool.gif


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## chicagoterry (Apr 3, 2012)

I don't know about boozy lobster sauce but one of my favorite guilty pasta pleasures is James Beard's pasta with smoked salmon in a sauce made of cream, butter and scotch.

It is delicious and I never, never make it anymore because of the calories. I'm not even much of a scotch fan and I love it.


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## cerise (Jul 5, 2013)

ChicagoTerry said:


> I don't know about boozy lobster sauce but one of my favorite guilty pasta pleasures is James Beard's pasta with smoked salmon in a sauce made of cream, butter and scotch.
> 
> It is delicious and I never, never make it anymore because of the calories. I'm not even much of a scotch fan and I love it.


Reminds me of a dish I had at a restaurant long ago - pasta w/ smoked salmon, vodka, cream and dill.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Closed container is the key word.
A bottle of anything sitting unused on a bar back shelf in a dusty honky tonk in Pasadena, Texas will certainly be nasty if the speed pour top is left in place .
I am fortunate to have an extra fridge that is reserved for my baking supplies.
There I keep all the booze (beer and wine included) and have only had one problem, ever.
For some reason a homemade Lemoncello in a fancy cork bottle has gotten so thick and sweet that I have tossed it.

@Luc_H can you explain this?
I used Meyer lemons from my own organic shrub.
The bottles were given as gifts and there were no complaints.
We are not big drinkers but do offer cocktails to guests and someone requested a finger from this particular bottle.
Kinda embarrassing .

mimi


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Ladies @ChicagoTerry and @Cerise yall are killin' me here!


mimi


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## cerise (Jul 5, 2013)

I think your best bet is to taste them.  Five years of storing opened bottles sounds like a long time - particularly since you haven't used or touched them, and use for experimentation.


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

flipflopgirl said:


> There I keep all the booze (beer and wine included) and have only had one problem, ever.
> For some reason a homemade Lemoncello in a fancy cork bottle has gotten so thick and sweet that I have tossed it.
> 
> @Luc_H can you explain this?
> ...


one thing that comes to mind, pectin. I think Meyer lemons have high levels of pectin in the rind. If the liqueur was made using sugar and boiling water then is would have extracted the pectin from the white rind (if some was with the zest when prepared). It would take a while for this process to evolve in a refrigerator with alcohol but I think the pectin swelled and gelled your Limoncello.

Commercial Limocello is made with flavouring extracts from lemon oil (no residual pectin).

it probably was still good but the thickness made it appear sweeter probably.

Luc H.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Luc_H said:


> flipflopgirl said:
> 
> 
> > There I keep all the booze (beer and wine included) and have only had one problem, ever.
> ...


It is so nice to have a scientist in the house lolol.
Thx Luc!

mimi


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

As Luc said, most alcoholic beverages above 20% store pretty well.  I have had some bottles, in my home bar that have been around for 1-2 years and are perfectly fine, although most bottles don't last that long.  Vermouth, which is only about 18% alcohol, I keep in the fridge and usually toss (if opened after about 2 months as it does tend to oxidize due to the lower alcohol content.  I know bourbon collectors that have had some open bottles that have been around for many years as they only drink from those bottles on very special occasions.

Other than opened wine or beer, I'd never throw out a bottle of booze that had only been opened for a month.


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

flipflopgirl said:


> It is so nice to have a scientist in the house lolol.
> Thx Luc!
> 
> mimi


Thanks I appreciated that Mimi!

Luc H.


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

Hard alcohol is 40% (80-proof)  except a few labels such as Jack Daniels and Everclear which are stronger.

Alcohol evaporates more quickly than water, so hard alcohols will loose "proof," as time goes by.  I don't know how that affects cooking, but if you are serving drinks, you should know that.

Alcohols won't actually spoil until they get to a certain low-point in alcohol, (like a liqueur).  In this thread we are using the 20% mark (40-proof), as the border, and that works for me.   At that point, old, opened alcohol will get worms and bugs.  I'd give it about 30 days before it is a danger, but that is just a guesstimate.

Things vary according to brand etc., but as a reference point

- American beer 3.5%

- imported beer 5%,

- white wine 10-12%,

- red wine 15%  

- liqueurs 20%  

- hard liquor 40%.


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## cerise (Jul 5, 2013)

You pose an interesting question re alcohol and expiration dates.  Don't think same is clearly, if at all,  labeled.  Rule of thumb, is to cook with what you like to drink.  There are lots of cheapo brands out there, I wouldn't want to drink, let alone cook with.  Your sense of smell and taste might help.  I have an allergic? reaction to certain wine(s) - that set me off sneezing.  Perhaps it's the chemicals/pesticides sprayed over grapes.  Not sure.  For experimentation or otherwise, when cooking, use the best ingredients, what you like, and I'd dump anything that's been hanging around particularly opened. Do they still sell airline-sized bottles?  lol.  You might try those.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Pete said:


> ...
> 
> Other than opened wine or beer, I'd never throw out a bottle of booze that had only been opened for a month.


Me neither. I've noticed that booze keeps for a long time (capped, cool, and dark storage). In fact, just a short time ago I found a bottle of Benedictine that must date back 20 years. It tasted fine and was good for flavoring an apple tart. If it lost any of its alcohol (which I would not doubt) that didn't affect culinary usage

The only booze that has ever "went bad" was a store-bought bottle of limoncello, but I think I took a swig directly from the bottle once and may have backwashed a bit

And come to think of it... I do have a bottle of mescal that may have also gone bad... there's a big ugly worm in it. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

LMAO BrianShaw.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Bob Hyneman said:


> So I'd throw them out about a month after opening.


A month is REALLY overkill. I keep 20%+ bottles for years and years and years. Some of them are probably over 10 years old. Still taste great.


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## cerise (Jul 5, 2013)

Invite us over. We'll let you know if it's still good. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/drinkbeer.gif/img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

French Fries said:


> A month is REALLY overkill. I keep 20%+ bottles for years and years and years. Some of them are probably over 10 years old. Still taste great.


Well if you keep a tight lid on them, the ability of hard liquors to lose alcohol is limited to the amount of air in the bottle. Liqueurs, wines etc. (in this conversation we are using 20% alcohol as the tilting point, although I honestly do not know what it is) will spoil, will taste badly, and will give your customers the runs. If you are keeping them around for years and years I'd have to wonder why you bought them in the first place. If you bought a box of hamburger patties or french fries and still had it around years and years later would you consider that a wise investment?

I'd keep an unopened can of 5% beer around for a very long time, but I can guarantee you that once opened, over time, a bottle of 12% alcohol white wine will spoil, will taste like vinegar, and even if refrigerated, even if tightly capped, will give your customers the runs.


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

Cerise said:


> Invite us over. We'll let you know if it's still good. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/drinkbeer.gif/img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif


Where is the "like" button?


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Normally not since alcohol itself is a preservative. Exposure to extreme heat, cold  and light could change the taste slightly but it still will not go bad so to speak.


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

Bob Hyneman said:


> Well if you keep a tight lid on them, the ability of hard liquors to lose alcohol is limited to the amount of air in the bottle. Liqueurs, wines etc. (in this conversation we are using 20% alcohol as the tilting point, although I honestly do not know what it is) will spoil, will taste badly, and will give your customers the runs. If you are keeping them around for years and years I'd have to wonder why you bought them in the first place. If you bought a box of hamburger patties or french fries and still had it around years and years later would you consider that a wise investment?
> 
> I'd keep an unopened can of 5% beer around for a very long time, but I can guarantee you that once opened, over time, a bottle of 12% alcohol white wine will spoil, will taste like vinegar, and even if refrigerated, even if tightly capped, will give your customers the runs.


I'm sure Bob is pulling everybody's leg here or maybe he doesn't get it. Anyhow I'll bite on the hook some more.

First the OP was not talking about serving customers, he was referring to his own home bar.

Second, since water-ethanol vapour is roughly 1000 times more voluminous than the liquid form, the amount of ethanol removed by the water/ethanol vapour mixture in a sitting bottle at room temperature is negligible (if the bottle remains closed)

Third, beer and wine is far from being comparable to hamburger meat and potato french fries although if kept frozen the latter will last forever. The only bacteria or mold that will grow in beer and wine are aceto making microorganism (i.e. turns ethanol into vinegar) not pathogens. Although it may become unpalatable, beer or wine that turns will not make anybody sick other than the immune depressed (big maybe).


ED BUCHANAN said:


> Normally not since alcohol itself is a preservative.


Ed permit me to add some nuances here just in case Bob takes you at your word and twists your meaning. Alcohol will not stop aceto microbial growth below 20%.

Between 20% to roughly 70%, ethanol is bateriostatic, which means it will prevent the growth of microorganisms

at around 70%, ethanol is bacteriocide i.e. antiseptic, kills microorganisms (as in homocide means kills humans)

above 70%, ethanol is bacteriostatic again.

Since ancient times, distilled alcohol (often brandy) was used to preserve tissue specimens (for museums for example). It was custom to change the alcohol regularly to prevent the tissues from rotting only because the distilled alcohol was around 30 to 40% and when preserving animals the water pulled from the tissue would dilute the preserving liquid. After several <washes> of brandy, the specimen stabilizes and will last forever.

Luc H.


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

Why do I keep getting the slap-around.  Did someone put a "kick me" sign on my back?

It remains true that  hard alcohol will, to the the extent that it is uncapped, lose alcohol.

It remains true that once alcohol loses alcohol it will eventually "go bad."  White wine, once opened spoils, even in a refrigerator, even if capped.

It remains true that on on this thread, we are using 20% as the threshold, I don't know what the threshold is but for discussion purposes, that works for me.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

I don't think anyone is denying the fact that alcohol evaporates. What may be in contention is if enough evap happens in normal home use to get below whatever the threshold is that will allow booze to go bad. I know that when I make drinks the bottle is opened, poured and recapped... O
So evap is largely limited to the amount allowed by the volume of air in the empty part of the bottle. If I one passes out and doesn't recap the bottle til the next morning - more evap may happen.

Hard likker only being discussed.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

You cannot believe everything you read esp on the Internet.
Came across this article and thought it an interesting read..... http://www.flask.com/does-alcohol-have-an-expiration-date/#.VXMKnhg8KrU

mimi


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

Bob, I what you say is true, then how do you explain the fact that in bourbon (and other barrel aged spirits), during the aging process, which can last years, you will see a loss of volume (aka the Angel's Share) yet you will see a slight increase in proof.  Bourbon typically goes into the barrel at 125 proof and, depending on age, often leaves the barrel at about 128 proof.  If your assertion that a bottle of booze loses enough alcohol over 1 month to make it dangerous to consume how do you explain an aging process that takes years, shows a significant amount of loss of volume, due to evaporation, yet the alcohol content remains relatively stable or even slightly increases?


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

Pete said:


> Bob, I what you say is true, then how do you explain the fact that in bourbon (and other barrel aged spirits), during the aging process, which can last years, you will see a loss of volume (aka the Angel's Share) yet you will see a slight increase in proof. Bourbon typically goes into the barrel at 125 proof and, depending on age, often leaves the barrel at about 128 proof. If your assertion that a bottle of booze loses enough alcohol over 1 month to make it dangerous to consume how do you explain an aging process that takes years, shows a significant amount of loss of volume, due to evaporation, yet the alcohol content remains relatively stable or even slightly increases?


Bourbon and other hard spirits age in the barrel, not in the bottle. They become lower in proof while doing so. You are freely permitted to dis-concur with me, but I suggest you look it up first, because, what I am saying is true. Liquors get "smoother" as they age. Once in the bottle, the aging is mostly limited to the amount of air in the bottle and thus pretty much stops. I like smoked meats, smoked fruits, smoked wines etc., and I am eager to try the devil's share. Sounds very attractive to me, but then again, who likes eating or drinking portions of smoked wood? I must have been born with a hard head.


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## kingfarvito (May 7, 2012)

Bob Hyneman said:


> Bourbon and other hard spirits age in the barrel, not in the bottle. They become lower in proof while doing so. You are freely permitted to dis-concur with me, but I suggest you look it up first, because, what I am saying is true. Liquors get "smoother" as they age. Once in the bottle, the aging is mostly limited to the amount of air in the bottle and thus pretty much stops. I like smoked meats, smoked fruits, smoked wines etc., and I am eager to try the devil's share. Sounds very attractive to me, but then again, who likes eating or drinking portions of smoked wood? I must have been born with a hard head.


the question isn't whether the liquor ages in the bottle (it does, but generally not enough to notice.) the question is when do you have to throw it away. I collect bourbon, and obviously being a cook, I like to drink. A few days ago I turned 24, I had a few friends over and I gifted each one with a pour from a bottle I received on my 18th birthday. It still tasted exactly as it did when I opened it 6 years ago. The bottle was about 1/3 full, none of us got the runs, none of us got sick.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm independently testing. Just poured some Woodford Reserve that was first opened last Thanksgiving. Getting buzzed but not sick. More testing to follow.


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## fablesable (Oct 11, 2014)

As I have never heard of such a thing as "expired alcohol" in my world I am having a good time learning of this phenomenon!

Distilling is the way we get the alcohol to proof before barrel aging applies. In the barrel, the proof can rise up to 3%+ during the aging process. Once in the bottles, the proof remains the same. Open bottles......well.....I am still learning of this "having a bottle for a long time thing" so I will defer to the others experimenting at this point......

@BrianShaw Followed by the "more testing" that you will be doing on that Woodford, please let us know your more socially lubricated thoughts on the experiment....lol.....thank you. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/tongue.gif


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

I did some testing on this myself the other night.  Found a bottle of gin in the back of my liquor cabinet that I had forgotten about.  It was probably first opened about 2 1/2 - 3 years ago.  Not sure how I missed it as I've gone through a few bottles of gin since then.  It tasted fine.  No noticeable drop in quality and flavor.  Still had plenty of heat from the alcohol and did not make me sick.

As to whether some alcohols gain proof while aging, Mark Waymack and James Harris, authors of "The Book of Classic American Whiskeys" have this to say, "...the whisky aged in Scotland, of course, tends to lose alcoholic strength.  But in the American Whiskey industry, it tends to go the other way."

This comes from the Bourbon Enthusiast:

"Final barrel proof then, like now would be determined by location in the warehouse. If it was stored high in the warehouse the proof increases and if stored low then it would decrease, at least in a unheated warehouse. If the warehouse has steam heat then the proof does usually increase across the board since the heat is usually applied on the lowest level and allowed to rise, thus for all practical purposes, flipping the warehouse heat wise. A bourbon with an entery proof of 100 could be expected to get as high as 130 proof if stored on the top level of a warehouse for 8 years. That would be an extreme, but I would estimate that the 120 proof range was probably quite common after many years on the upper floors."


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## chefbuba (Feb 17, 2010)

I had an open bottle of Macallan 18yr old for years and only drank it on special occasions, it even survived the Northridge earthquake after falling out of an upper cabinet. Allways tasted good.





  








4975.jpg




__
chefbuba


__
Jun 8, 2015


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Your lucky. I lost every bottle of booze and wine in the Northridge earthquake, plus plumbing, a chimney and all of my block wall. The kitchen stunk of alcohol for a long time - not that the stink was really too offensive but...


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## chicagoterry (Apr 3, 2012)

I have never had an open bottle go bad or make me sick and I am a very slow at-home drinker. A bottle of bourbon usually lasts me well over a year. I have several fruit-flavored liqueurs and a bottle of cognac that are even older, since I only use them for flavoring the very occasional cocktail or in baking. Never, ever had a problem.


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## cerise (Jul 5, 2013)

chefbuba said:


> I had an open bottle of Macallan 18yr old for years and only drank it on special occasions, it even survived the Northridge earthquake after falling out of an upper cabinet. Allways tasted good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OMG. My TV practically flew across the room. And, back then, it wasn't a flat screen.


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

hmmmm interesting!

seems opened bottles of liquor doesn't get bad and may sometimes survive earthquakes!

Luc H.


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## cerise (Jul 5, 2013)

Luc_H said:


> hmmmm interesting!
> 
> seems opened bottles of liquor doesn't get bad and may sometimes survive earthquakes!
> 
> Luc H.


/img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

Trust me .  To the extent that a bottle of hard liquor has air in it, it will lose proof.  Once it gets down below a certain proof level (we are using 20% on this thread but I don't  really know what the threshold is), it will rot like apple juice.  Of course when you are drinking, people don't often care.


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## josh71 (Jan 15, 2015)

Luc_H said:


> Hypothetically speaking, yes alcohol evaporates more quickly than water but in reality, alcohol won't readily evaporate away (at room temperature) from an unsealed yet corked/recapped bottle which is what I assume everybody does. (I doubt the OP or anyone leaves his bottles literally unopened in his cupboard)
> 
> Luc H.


I store it closed for sure, and I added a layer of plastic, wrapped and put tight rubber band in the neck of the bottle.

Well, I tried to close it as good as I can, then put it in the cupboard 

I opened the pastis this weekend, and I can still smell strong alcohol.

Tasted a bit and still feeling dizzy lol.

I am so weak with alcohol 

Anyway, the reason I asked this because I wanted to make this "*salted egg*". The recipe calls for high alcohol content, and I read in the bottle, the pastis has 45% alcohol


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## josh71 (Jan 15, 2015)

Cerise said:


> I'd like to know more about the booze-y lobster sauce./img/vbsmilies/smilies/cool.gif


I forgot the recipe. But, I think most common lobster sauce might call to use *cognac*


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## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

http://www.irelandseye.com/aarticles/culture/recipes/cooking/lawyer.shtm

Something like this?


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

Bob Hyneman said:


> Trust me . To the extent that a bottle of hard liquor has air in it, it will lose proof. Once it gets down below a certain proof level (we are using 20% on this thread but I don't really know what the threshold is), it will rot like apple juice. Of course when you are drinking, people don't often care.


I won't disagree that an uncapped bottle will lose its strength eventually, but first, your original assertion that an opened bottle of hard liquor will go bad in a month is just way off base. The evaporation just doesn't happent that fast Secondly, I don't know anyone that stores their "opened" bottles with the cap off, unless you are talking about bars that replace their caps with speed pourers. But even in those instances the amount of evaporation is so slow that it is not noticable except over very, very long times. If this wasn't the case, and opened hard liquor went bad even within a couple of months then the health department would make sure that all bars and restaurants labelled and dated every open bottle, which they don't, at least the ones I have worked with, and over the years that has been many.


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

Pete said:


> If this wasn't the case, and opened hard liquor went bad even within a couple of months then the health department would make sure that all bars and restaurants labelled and dated every open bottle, which they don't, at least the ones I have worked with, and over the years that has been many.


EXCELLENT point!! Even the Health Dept doesn't consider high proof liquor as potentially hazardous.

Probably because there is nothing for micro-organisms to eat (no solids) in distilled alcohol (not talking about liqueurs that have added sugar in it) even if the proof went down.

Luc H.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

But even liquers don't arent required to be labeled and dated, do they?


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

BrianShaw said:


> But even liquers don't arent required to be labeled and dated, do they?


No. They are always above 20% anyway. Even cream based liqueurs, i.e. Bailey's, are also above 20% alcohol.

Thinking that ANY high proof alcohol would drop below 20% is utter nonsense.

Luc H.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Luc_H said:


> Thinking that ANY high proof alcohol would drop below 20% is utter nonsense.


+1.


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

If you keep it open, or in a speed pourer, it just might.  I have had some pretty watered-down alcohol.    As for the 20% mark, I truly do not know the threshold is.  I know for a FACT that white wine (10-12%)  will spoil like grape juice, even if capped, even if refrigerated.  In this discussion we are are using 20% as the threshold and well, I guess that works for me.


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

In regards to wine spoiling, this is what The Wine Spectator has to say:

"_By "spoil," I'm guessing you mean "oxidize"-that is, as an open bottle interacts with the air, it will eventually fade, flatten out and begin to take on nutty, bruised-apple notes. The wine isn't spoiled in exactly the same way food can become spoiled, but it can still be unpleasant to drink."_

In regards to old, oxidized wine making you sick, again The Wine Spectator has this to say.

"_Well, you certainly can get ill if you drink too much Port-or too much of anything, for that matter. Overindulging will almost always lead to unpleasant symptoms._

_But it sounds like you're wondering if a wine spoils as it gets older, and the answer is no. The alcohol acts as a preservative. In fact, some of the best wines I've ever had have been older than I am, including a Port that was older than I'll probably ever be._

_Of course, that's the best-case scenario, when a wine is built for aging (the best Vintage Ports have very long lives ahead of them) and stored in optimal conditions. The worst-case scenario would be a wine that hasn't aged well and is just old. In that case, the wine will have lost its fruit flavors and taken on nutty notes, and the color will have started to turn brown. It's not harmful, but it won't taste good. Even on the rare chance that a wine has turned to vinegar, it would be unpleasant to drink, but not dangerous."_


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

When  liquor turns old it turns to wine.  When wine turns old, it turns to vinegar.  Trust me.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Only a miracle at Cana would turn old liquor into wine


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

Brian, I cannot concur with you on this point.  I respect you, I

respect your opinion and your knowledge, but you are just plain incorrect on this point.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Please prove me wrong. Change some bourbon into merlot.

Or even Ripple, or Boones Farm.


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

100% of water evaporates at room temperature.  Do you really  need more explaining?


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## chicagoterry (Apr 3, 2012)

Just one reference I found of several from textbooks on food preservation and safety.

A quote from Food Microbiology , 5th Ed by William C Frazier, Dennis C Westoff, K N Vanitha:

"The aging of distilled liquors in charred oaken barrels or tuns is a chemical rather than a biological process...There should be no problems of spoilage of distilled liquors by micro-organisms."

https://books.google.com/books?id=7...epage&q=spoilage of distilled liquors&f=false


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Bob Hyneman said:


> 100% of water evaporates at room temperature. Do you really need more explaining?


Yes please. More info. Gin minus water is not wine. Might lead to a whine but it's not wine unless there is a definition of wine I'm no familiar with.


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## kingfarvito (May 7, 2012)

When liquor gets old it turns into wine? I have a lot of whiskey ranging from 1-40 years since its been out of the barrels. What of my collection is wine lol.


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

Great replies. The evidence is overwhelmingly high on the alcoholic beverages are safe side. Let's beat this dead horse even more.

FDA defines a potentially hazardous food, a food that can be contaminated with infectious and toxigenic microorganisms

http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodScienceResearch/SafePracticesforFoodProcesses/ucm094143.htm

A safe food is one that has a ph Below 4.6.

the pH of wine is below 3.7

http://www.wineperspective.com/the_acidity_of_wine.htm

here is another excerpt:

Although wine is not usually considered a major food safety risk due to the low pH and presence of alcohol-resulting in no documented cases of human pathogenic microbes in wines-there have been international incidents related to non-microbe food safety which the American industry must consider...

http://www.winebusiness.com/wbm/?go=getArticleSignIn&dataId=107739

so high proof alcohol is safe and so is wine, even dealcoholized wine because the acidity will not change be removing the alcohol.

How about drinking 200 year old wine and beer: http://io9.com/5695539/worlds-oldest-wine-and-beer-finally-gets-drunk-after-200-years

Luc H.


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## chicagoterry (Apr 3, 2012)

I think someone is confused about the difference between fermentation and distillation.

Liquor cannot turn into wine. Wine is a fermentation process, dependent upon yeasts, which are living organisms. You open a bottle of wine and the yeasts perk up because of the oxygen and carry forth the fermentation process. Wine doesn't "spoil" as such. It turns into vinegar as the yeasts feed off of the sugars. Wine is a living thing.

Hard liquor is distilled, It is a chemical process. Distillation kills off any yeasts which would feed off of the sugars and would turn what is left in the bottle into wine. The high alcohol content kills off any microbes which would cause spoilage or fermentation, and therefore keeps the liquor stable. A bottle of bourbon will never turn into wine, which would, after a time, turn into vinegar because of the presence of living yeasts.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

And either of them can evaporate.


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

BrianShaw said:


> Yes please. More info. Gin minus water is not wine. Might lead to a whine but it's not wine unless there is a definition of wine I'm no familiar with.


Gin minus alcohol is juniper wine. That's what it is.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Gin minus alcohol is flavored water... A gin extract of sorts. Water is not wine, except at the afore mentioned wedding feast.


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

@Bob Hyneman you really like making ridiculous statements to attract attention.

131 posts since joining in April!, are you trolling this community?

Luc H.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Luc_H said:


> @Bob Hyneman
> you really like making ridiculous statements to attract attention.
> 131 posts since joining in April!, are you trolling this community?
> 
> Luc H.


Thank you for rolling all of Bob's (for the most part) rediculous statements and half truths into a rubber band ball and giving it a bounce.

IMO he may very well be a banned (or even active) member just jerking our chains.
As long as he gets attention this childish behavior will continue.

I am out.....

mimi


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## kingfarvito (May 7, 2012)

Yes before its distilled gin is juniper wine. But, that doesn't mean it goes back to being wine if you lower the alcohol content. Chicken+heat=cooked chicken cooked chicken-heat=/raw chicken


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Bob Hyneman said:


> When liquor turns old it turns to wine. When wine turns old, it turns to vinegar. Trust me.


Trust me. When vinegar turns old it turns into olive oil. Trust me. Pleeeease trust me. Why won't you trust me?


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

kingfarvito said:


> Yes before its distilled gin is juniper wine. But, that doesn't mean it goes back to being wine if you lower the alcohol content. Chicken+heat=cooked chicken cooked chicken-heat=/raw chicken


Sorry, Gin is not distilled juniper wine. Gin is made either by distilling steeped herb+juniper berries in water+grain alcohol, by passing the distilling vapours through herbs and juniper berries when distilling grain alcohol + water or by adding refined extracts to corrected distilled grain alcohol.


French Fries said:


> Trust me. When vinegar turns old it turns into olive oil. Trust me. Pleeeease trust me. Why won't you trust me?


I trust you French Fries!!!! teehee!

Luc H.


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

ChicagoTerry said:


> I think someone is confused about the difference between fermentation and distillation.
> 
> Liquor cannot turn into wine. Wine is a fermentation process, dependent upon yeasts, which are living organisms. You open a bottle of wine and the yeasts perk up because of the oxygen and carry forth the fermentation process. Wine doesn't "spoil" as such. It turns into vinegar as the yeasts feed off of the sugars. Wine is a living thing.
> 
> Hard liquor is distilled, It is a chemical process. Distillation kills off any yeasts which would feed off of the sugars and would turn what is left in the bottle into wine. The high alcohol content kills off any microbes which would cause spoilage or fermentation, and therefore keeps the liquor stable. A bottle of bourbon will never turn into wine, which would, after a time, turn into vinegar because of the presence of living yeasts.


You are misinformed on the alcohol making process.

The devil is in the details:

Yeast fermented mash (from a sugar source: grain, fruits, potatoes, etc..) when distilled makes liquor or high proof alcohol (which can then be flavoured and/or added in wooden casks)

Wine and beer are just fermented. They are also racked (decanted), filtered or centrifuged to remove (practically) all the yeast.

So that means yeast does not <perk up> when you open a bottle of wine. Wine actually <brightens> by partial oxidation because during the winemaking process the polyphenols in the juice are chemically reduced (i.e. antioxidation).

Distilling is as much a chemical a process as evaporation or boiling.

Alcohol ( or wine) is not converted to vinegar by yeast (which is no longer in the bottle) but by adding aceto bacteria or mold (a mother). During natural spoiling, yeast eat sugar to convert to alcohol then aceto microbes eat the sugar to make vinegar (acidic acid). (I will spare you guys the chemical formulas)

Luc H.


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

No I am not trolling.  I just enjoy educating people even when it irritates people.  And it especially annoys me when people sell spoiled food, charge their customers to make them sick, or keep more than a month's stock of fish or beef or booze in inventory, so I get a two-fer on this thread.


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

French Fries said:


> Trust me. When vinegar turns old it turns into olive oil. Trust me. Pleeeease trust me. Why won't you trust me?


Well, telling the truth would help.


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

French Fries said:


> Trust me. When vinegar turns old it turns into olive oil. Trust me. Pleeeease trust me. Why won't you trust me?


Oh and for the record (not for making up sexually immature hate-filled lies and hurling them like monkey feces)

1. "Wine vinegar is either made from red or white. Cooks use vinegar for many purposes such as; pickling, deglazing pans, marinating meats, making sauces and is found in certain desserts. Red wine vinegar is commonly used in the Mediterranean . . . .White wine vinegar is a moderately tangy vinegar that French cooks use to make Hollandaise and Béarnaise sauces, vinaigrettes, soups, and stews. It's also an excellent base for homemade fruit or herb vinegars."

http://www.food.com/about/wine-vinegar-493

and

2. Vinegar is a liquid consisting mainly of acetic acid (CH[sub]3[/sub]COOH) and water. The acetic acid is produced by the fermentation of ethanol by acetic acid bacteria.[sup][1][/sup] Vinegar is now mainly used as a cooking ingredient. Historically, as the most easily available mild acid, it had a great variety of industrial, medical and domestic uses, some of which (such as its use as a general household cleanser) are still promoted today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar

and

3. The vinegar produced and used today is much like the product of years past, but with newly discovered flavors and uses. The mainstays of the category - white distilled, cider, wine and malt have now been joined by balsamic, rice, rice wine, raspberry, pineapple, chardonnay, flavored and seasoned vinegars and more. See the specialty vinegars section below for more information on these products and how to use them.

The United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) requires that any product called "vinegar" contain at least 4% acidity.

http://www.versatilevinegar.org/todaysvinegar.html

and

4. In wine, acetic acid is an indicator of wine spoilage. If wine gets infected with acetobacter and other conditions are right, then acetic acid will be produced, along with lots of other bacteria (pediococcus, etc.). . . . We're talking about acetic acid because one definition of vinegar is _diluted acetic acid_.

http://www.ravenoustraveler.com/2011/06/what-really-makes-wine-turn-into.html

Where do YOU think the name came from? Bite. Elvis has left the building.


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)




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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

Gin is not juniper wine.  It is juniper flavored vodka.

Uncapped hard liquors do lose proof.

Once the proof gets below a certain threshold, they will actually spoil (turn to vinegar) or at least grow bugs and worms (and I don't mean the mescal kind.)  A wise person does not buy a month of beef or pork or chicken in advance.  White wine will spoil, even if capped even if refrigerated.  If I am doing anything wrong, it is only that I am stating things that are so obvious they should not need to be stated.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Bob Hyneman said:


> If I am doing anything wrong, it is only that I am stating things that are so obvious they should not need to be stated.


I suppose it could come down to one's definition of wrong, however I believe there are a substantial amount of people that might disagree with your assessment of your actions.


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

Well I don't seem to be winning any popularity contests, but that has never stopped me before.

-Alcohol expires in direct correlation with its oxidation. Unopened bottles are usually fine.
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/301694

- A bottle of hard liquor if opened and firmly recapped will last 6-8 months.
http://www.thekitchn.com/does-liquor-ever-expire-straig-105435

- Will eventually spoil.
http://www.eatbydate.com/drinks/alcohol/alcohol-shelf-life-expiration-date/

- Wine can spoil even in an unopened bottle.
http://www.flask.com/does-alcohol-have-an-expiration-date/#.VXfg-s9Viko

- Hard liquor on being opened one time will spoil in 6-8 months

https://unclutterer.com/2013/05/23/uncluttering-alcohol-the-shelf-life-of-beer-and-liquor/

I'd give it a month in a speed pourer. If you want to argue the point for other capping methods, I'll listen.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

I don't wish to argue the issue one way or the other. Being right or proving someone else wrong isn't very high on my priority list and generally overrated in my book.


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

I have now provided nine sources for what I am saying.

How many and I supposed to provide?

How many have my opponents provided?

Would you buy beef more than a month in advance?


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## lagom (Sep 5, 2012)

Why yes I would buy beef more than a month in advance, i love a nice dry aged 60 day long hung steak.


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

I used to kill them and eat their tenderloins in the same day.  Good.  In the case of pigs I ate their brains too.

Dry aging is for letting them "water out" so they taste more like beef and less like water.  Much of the rest of cooking is about keeping fluids IN.

hard liquor will lose alcohol overtime if uncapped.  Wine will absolutely spoil and turn into vinegar.

I am pretty imaginative, but even I could not make this stuff up.

I might not be popular, but I am telling you the truth. Hard liquor loses booze and wine spoils.  6-8  months with a good seal, 30 days with a speed pourer.  Should I make stuff up?


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

Sorry, but your links do not support your claim when it comes to hard liquor.  Yes, it supports the claim that both wine and beer will spoil and no one here discounts that fact.  But the fact is they items are less than 15% alcohol and thus do not contain the levels of alcohol to prevent spoilage.  It will slow it down but eventually the microbes responsible for turning it to vinegar will begin to colonize those beverages and turn them into vinegar.

But the links you link to all say that hard liquor will oxidize and the flavors will begin to fade and change, but most of your links do support the fact they do not "spoil."  Flavors fading, and liquor oxidizing is not spoilage.  Spoilage is when microbes take hold of a food/beverage product and through growth and their life processes degrade, and/or make harmful a food stuff.  None of the links you provide support your concept of spoilage, and in fact, just about every one of them supports the fact that hard liquor does not spoil although its flavors may fade and over a long period of time may become undrinkable because of quality, not spoilage.

I know I said, I wasn't going to say any more, but I just couldn't, not say anything, when you use links to support your claims when they clearly support an opposite view, when it comes to hard liquor.


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## lagom (Sep 5, 2012)

Im still looking forward to a supporting source from The Onion. [emoji]128563[/emoji]


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

Lagom said:


> Im still looking forward to a supporting source from The Onion. [emoji]128563[/emoji]


Now that is FUNNY!!!!

Luc H.


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## chefbuba (Feb 17, 2010)

This is turning into the roux thread. It's all Psychobabble


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

Josh71 said:


> Is there such thing as "expired date" of alcoholic drink after the bottle has been opened?
> 
> I have couple of small bottles of *vodka*, *cognac*, and *pastis*, which I used to have experiment with food long time ago.


This is the OP's original post.

This is where the troll brought the conversation: making people sick with fish, beef and booze....


Bob Hyneman said:


> No I am not trolling. I just enjoy educating people even when it irritates people. And it especially annoys me when people sell spoiled food, charge their customers to make them sick, or keep more than a month's stock of fish or beef or booze in inventory, so I get a two-fer on this thread.


As for the following comment: "I just enjoy educating people even when it irritates people" it is pretty much a self centre comment as one can make.

Then came the 4 point manifesto with some sort of sexist comments


Bob Hyneman said:


> Oh and for the record (not for making up sexually immature hate-filled lies and hurling them like monkey feces)
> 
> 1. ..
> 
> ...


I will answer the last question: vinegar comes from the French word _vinaigre _which is a 2 word contraction of _vin aigre_ which means sour wine (literally wine - sour). Now the troll will let us believe that this definition supports his claim when in fact _vinaigre _means intentionally soured wine for culinary purposes while _vin aigre_ means spoiled soured wine. This brings a interesting point that spoiling does not lead to food poisining (i.e. making someone sick). Spoiling is an assessment that a food has no longer consumer appeal. Many spoiled food of the past are now foods which brings us back to _vin aigre_ or vinager. As previously stated, foods that have very particular characteristics can potentially lead to food poisoning and if the troll would actually read references, the FDA reference I posted (scientifically) defines food that are potentially hazardous and wine, beer and liquor are not. But he probably applies the age old talent of selective reading to pursue his outrageous claims to drag us to submission.

This curious individual has been metaphorically cornered so often that he has wiggle his position to continue his ludicrous sermon on a soap box. an example below... first gin was juniper wine now flavoured vodka. At this point he is so off the mark that he finds himself in another time zone.


Bob Hyneman said:


> Gin is not juniper wine. It is juniper flavored vodka.


Like many of us, I had the tendency of just dropping this conversation and essentially give in but by drawing out these trolls and hijackers they expose themselves at looking foolish. I sincerely doubt anybody has left himself forcibly taught anything by this individual.

This thread is a classic example to identify a troll: they attract attention by claiming outrageous claims, invite comments, claim they are a target, fight their position as Simon vs Goliath to obtain pity points and make rebuttals until the get the last word. It's laughable when you know what to look for.

The purpose of this community is to share knowledge openly and freely. Opinions matter, debate and discord are valued but trolling and hijacking should be challenged. Been closed minded in a conversation as you have demonstrated to everybody here (including 2 moderators) has never taught anybody anything.

Luc H.


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## fablesable (Oct 11, 2014)

Alright, I think most of us are in agreement to just shut this thread down for the sake of sanity. Can one of the moderators agree and do so?? Thank you


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Fablesable said:


> Alright, I think most of us are in agreement to just shut this thread down for the sake of sanity. Can one of the moderators agree and do so?? Thank you


I don't normally support such suggestions -- on any online forum -- but I support this one, but with a couple of additional requests:

1. Would the mods please discuss with ChefTalk management the notion of implementing an "ignore feature" . There are some threads/membes that I feel more inclined to ignore than pay attention to.

and for Luc

2. Thanks for you on-going rational discussion, but please tell us who "Simon" is. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

BrianShaw said:


> I don't normally support such suggestions -- on any online forum -- but I support this one, but with a couple of additional requests:
> 
> 1. Would the mods please discuss with ChefTalk management the notion of implementing an "ignore feature" . There are some threads/membes that I feel more inclined to ignore than pay attention to.
> 
> ...


Simon!! LOL.. How did I come up with Simon!!! ........ Sorry I meant, Joe, I mean Phil, ugh Jason.......

(quick web search)

..... DAVID!!!!

LMAO!!! Thanks Brian, I stand corrected!

Luc H.


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

I am identifying only the truth.  I have not said that hard liquor, kept under normal conditions will turn to vinegar.  I have said that it will loose proof and therefore you will be selling your customer something he did not order.  Wine OTOH will turn to vinegar.  White wine does that even if capped, even if refrigerated.  Call me a troll or a zombie or a vampire or whatever you want.  The question was asked and I answered it correctly and accurately.  If you have no sources to back up your statement and need to result to name-calling perhaps you are wrong and I am correct.


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

I will check with the  site administrator, but I hesitate to "shut down" this thread as it doesn't really violate any of the sites guidelines, nor has the conversation taken a really nasty turn.  Minus a few cheap shots this conversation has remained relatively civil.  I would hate to start a precedent of shutting down threads that have become annoying.  A better solution is just to ignore any further posts and let this thread die a natural death, IMHO.

As to the "ignore" feature, I will bring it up and see if that is something that the site/and the host does support.


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

Oh look, I answered an honest question with an honest answer.  Now someone is trying to get me stricken from this website.  That is so much better than talking it out.

I have backed up my statements with common sense and with NINE sources.  Four which say wine turns into vinegar and 5 which say hard alcohol looses proof to the extent that it is open.  I would not sell someone something as 40% alcohol if in fact it is less than 40% alcohol, but I have that sort of honest streak.  I do business honestly. How do you do business? By getting people banned from websites for speaking the truth?


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

I don't believe anyone has suggested getting you banned, not has anyone suggested that they will be selling degraded liquor.

In your business, Bob, do you sell liquor that is only less than one month old? Please be honest. I've given you the benefit of the doubt for a long time, read most of your posts, interacted with you on some... but still wonder what kind of "business" you have or had. And what more... getting very tired of your online style. You might be a nice enough guy but your on-line persona tends to be annoying and credibility is an issue, amigo.

This will be my last post. Saying too much more will likely get both of us banned. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lookaround.gif


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## lagom (Sep 5, 2012)

Please dont shut this thread down, the sheer entertainment value is priceless, for everthing else there's mastercard. [emoji]128515[/emoji]


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

Josh71 said:


> Is there such thing as "expired date" of alcoholic drink after the bottle has been opened?


Is this your final answer?


Bob Hyneman said:


> I am identifying only the truth. I have not said that hard liquor, kept under normal conditions will turn to vinegar. I have said that it will loose proof and therefore you will be selling your customer something he did not order. Wine OTOH will turn to vinegar. White wine does that even if capped, even if refrigerated. Call me a troll or a zombie or a vampire or whatever you want. The question was asked and I answered it correctly and accurately. If you have no sources to back up your statement and need to result to name-calling perhaps you are wrong and I am correct.


There has been many attempts at closing this discussion yet you persist on getting the last word as typical for a troll/hijackers.

I am now giving you a way to rebuttal one last time after me.... (can't vouch for anybody else).

Is this your final answer?

Luc H.


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## lagom (Sep 5, 2012)

3 more questions. 
What is your name?
What is your quest?
What is the flight velocity of an unladen swollow?


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

BrianShaw said:


> I don't believe anyone has suggested getting you banned, not has anyone suggested that they will be selling degraded liquor.
> 
> In your business, Bob, do you sell liquor that is only less than one month old? Please be honest. I've given you the benefit of the doubt for a long time, read most of your posts, interacted with you on some... but still wonder what kind of "business" you have or had. And what more... getting very tired of your online style. You might be a nice enough guy but your on-line persona tends to be annoying and credibility is an issue, amigo.
> 
> This will be my last post. Saying too much more will likely get both of us banned. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lookaround.gif


In my last bar work we used to label the dates when we opened the liquor (and liqueur) bottles. I do not recall if the expiry date we used was 4 weeks or 6, but we used to literally give them away after that. The staff loved it. It made a few of the regular customers happy too, and we never sold stuff we said we weren't selling. We sold what we said we were selling. We cheated no one, and a good time was had by all. End.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Bob Hyneman said:


> I have backed up my statements with common sense and with NINE sources.





> Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.


Is your number one priority being right?


> It infuriates me to be wrong when I know I'm right.





> The notes are right, but if I listened they would be wrong.





> All right everyone, line up alphabetically according to your height.


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## fablesable (Oct 11, 2014)

Thank you @BrianShaw and @Pete an ignore button is a much better suggestion indeed as at the time I could not think of a more sane or polite way of staying on thread and have it remain a more non-fictional argument or conversation....lol

Thank you @Luc_H for your incredibly knowledgeable information and patience to teach!

I would never wish to take away anyone's entertainment on the matter as it is indeed, at times, both entertaining and cringe-worthy /img/vbsmilies/smilies/peace.gif


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

"entertaining and cringe-worthy







"

I have been called each. I deny neither.


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## lagom (Sep 5, 2012)

Finally, we agree [emoji]128541[/emoji]


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## bob hyneman (Apr 17, 2015)

Like


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

So, in closing, may I ask the OP, Josh71... do you get the answer to your question?


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

The Ignore feature is called Block Member. Mouse over the member's name in the post. Block Member is in the drop down list. Or go to the user's profile you want to block.  In the column of buttons on the left is a Block Member button. Click it. Be Happy.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Josh71 said:


> Is there such thing as "expired date" of alcoholic drink after the bottle has been opened?...But, again, that was quite long time ago, almost 5 years, and since then I have never touched it.
> 
> I store them in dry cool cupboard without any kind of special or whatnot, just let them stand there ...Use it for making sauce is ok.
> 
> Thanks.


They should be fine for making sauce, even *if* they have turned into vinegar or whatever (a big if because I don't wish to lend any credence to the premise that they have) they can still be used for cooking. Vinegar is definitely one of the weapons in my culinary arsenal. The flavor profile, proof, and etc. will probably be different than it was 5 years ago, but then heat when cooking will also alter the aforementioned characteristics. Green tomatoes are quite different from red ripe tomatoes (is one right and one wrong or bad) but both can have their place in cuisine with spectacular results.

For cooking, they should be fine and useful.


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## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

phatch said:


> The Ignore feature is called Block Member. Mouse over the member's name in the post. Block Member is in the drop down list. Or go to the user's profile you want to block. In the column of buttons on the left is a Block Member button. Click it. Be Happy.


I'm happy.

Thanks.

Unfortunately, they still show up if I don't log in.

Oh well.


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## cerise (Jul 5, 2013)

Pete said:


> ...As to the "ignore" feature, I will bring it up and see if that is something that the site/and the host does support.


Only because you brought the topic up.... The "ignore" feature works, however, emails are received from all when participating/subscribed to a thread. Disabling emails was the only way I could remedy the feature on my end.


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

cheflayne said:


> They should be fine for making sauce, even *if* they have turned into vinegar or whatever (a big if because I don't wish to lend any credence to the premise that they have) they can still be used for cooking. Vinegar is definitely one of the weapons in my culinary arsenal. The flavor profile, proof, and etc. will probably be different than it was 5 years ago, but then heat when cooking will also alter the aforementioned characteristics. Green tomatoes are quite different from red ripe tomatoes (is one right and one wrong or bad) but both can have their place in cuisine with spectacular results.
> 
> For cooking, they should be fine and useful.


Great reply! concise and to the point with a one sentence conclusion to sum up the complete answer to the OP's question.

I concur with that answer.

Luc H.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Cerise said:


> Pete said:
> 
> 
> > ...As to the "ignore" feature, I will bring it up and see if that is something that the site/and the host does support.
> ...


I've turned off all the emails. It's way too much noise in my inbox.


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## josh71 (Jan 15, 2015)

BrianShaw said:


> So, in closing, may I ask the OP, Josh71... do you get the answer to your question?


Yes, I have 

Really thanks to all the feedback.

I am not worried with expiry date on alcoholic drinks!

Note that I added my observation regarding the pastis bottle that I have. After so many years, I can still feel the strong alcohol in it.

Of course, this is not scientific, but the thing is, as I said above, because of the feedback on this thread, I won't throw away my alcoholic bottles which I stored for few years!


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## mikelm (Dec 23, 2000)

I don't see the point of this question.

I've never had such a problem.

Mike /img/vbsmilies/smilies/bounce.gif /img/vbsmilies/smilies/drinkbeer.gif


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