# Which Japanese chefs knive?



## chefspassion (Jul 22, 2016)

To many knives and the opinions are not that easy to find. Which are the top brands and knives ? My budget is around 250 euro/dollar for a gyuto/chefs knive . 

Knives who got my attention:

Kai Shun Premier Tim Malzer

Mcusta Zanmai Classic PRO knives

But I'm not sure if there are better knives available for the same price..


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Where are you located? This could affect pricing via shipping and customs depending on where you are and which retailers you're looking at.

Do you have any specific preferences? Handle, steel type, profile, etc.?


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## chefspassion (Jul 22, 2016)

Im living in Holland. We also have this shop in Holland : http://www.japansemessen.nl/c-2812014/gesorteerd-op-merk/

Language is in dutch but now you can see the brands who are available there

Dont have any special preferences. Handle should be made from wood or at least not from steel. And the knive should be similar in use then the western knives. Not that I need to learn myself a whole new cutting technique /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

> Not that I need to learn myself a whole new cutting technique /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif


This is a joke but you have stumbled onto something accidentally perhaps. Even among chef knife shapes there are subtle differences. Pretty much all japanese knives are for push or pull cuts. No rock chopping. If you're uncomfortable with that, stick with german.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Hey welcome to cheftalk.

There are some J's that have a slight up-tic at the heel to facilitate rocking, like the Takamura.  And, well, this little uptic can be ground in, but not recommended for the novice sharpener.  But for about $25US you can find J-knife sharpeners to do it, if you really had to have it.  But even a Sabatier can rock without it, for the occasion you might want to mince some herbs or something.

Anyway, you can also look at JapaneseNaturalStones in your neck of the woods, JapaneseChefKnives also.

But the 2 knives you mentioned are 2 I would not consider.

And the inevitable question, "How do you intend to sharpen these?"


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## chefspassion (Jul 22, 2016)

Rick Alan said:


> Hey welcome to cheftalk.
> 
> There are some J's that have a slight up-tic at the heel to facilitate rocking, like the Takamura. And, well, this little uptic can be ground in, but not recommended for the novice sharpener. But for about $25US you can find J-knife sharpeners to do it, if you really had to have it. But even a Sabatier can rock without it, for the occasion you might want to mince some herbs or something.
> 
> ...


To sharpen those knives I like to use wetstones and diamond knive sharpeners. So which brands do you recommend?


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## chefspassion (Jul 22, 2016)

Ok so I made a list (very nice site btw)

Gesshin Kagero:

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...kagero/products/gesshin-kagero-210mm-wa-gyuto

Gesshin Uraka:

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...wa-gyuto-with-red-lacquerware-handle-and-saya

I think it will be one of these. The only thing is couldnt find is the type of steel. No I only see the info "Stainless steel"


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## chefspassion (Jul 22, 2016)

Any thoughts on the Kanehiro AS ?

I saw Shapton makes good quality wetstone/glasstones. What is a good grit to maintain the quality of the knive? 2000? Or is it adviced to buy multiple stones the first time?


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## chefspassion (Jul 22, 2016)

Zwilling Prof S. Maintain it with diamond and steel sharpeners


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Not hard to take a step up from there.  Just curious what you mean by "diamond sharpeners."


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## chefspassion (Jul 22, 2016)

Rick Alan said:


> Not hard to take a step up from there. Just curious what you mean by "diamond sharpeners."


Couldnt find the correct translation for it. But I mean the sharpening steels with that kind of diamond powder/coating

The reviews of the Kanehiro 240mm AS are pretty sick.. Hope there is someone who is active on this forum who have some experience with that knive

So what kind of sharpening tools/stones should I buy with it?

That Zwilling was my first knive, still love it  Very nice starter and I will never forget her haha


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

The splash-and-go Chosera stones already recommended are all you need.  You can save the diamond steel, so long as it lasts anyways, for convenience since you'll likely continue to use the Zwillings for brutish tasks, but don't even think about using it on your new knives, it removes way too much metal and otherwise damages the edge of a good knife.

Don't use any steel, with the exception of a ceramic steel.  A few strops on a fine stone is actually far superior to the CS though, as Benuser finally convinced all of us here, so you don't even need the CS.

The Kanehiro sounds like a nice lighter middleweight gyuto, it doesn't have anywhere near the belly of a German knife but it will rock-chop well.  Food release should be very good.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Benuser said:


> With that practice it will have become quite thick behind the edge. https://s19.postimg.org/quovu1vhd/sharpen4.jpg


Ahaha, all the better to break chicken bones with.


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## chefspassion (Jul 22, 2016)

Benuser said:


> Take reviews from
> chefknivestogoforum.com
> with a grain of salt.


It where customer/buyer reviews at the site /img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif

And why could it be thickened behind the edge? I'm willing to learn. I know how to cut and cook but never get into this kind of information haha. But t is becoming an interest for me.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

chefknivestogoforum has loyalty contests, giveaways for good reviewers,   free stuff for video reviewers, and paid video reviewers.   I have never seen one of their video guys give a bad review on anything.  Unbiased review does not exist there.  IMO they prey on unsuspecting cooks making their first foray into japanese knives.  Some of what they sell is okay but god forbid you get a defect.  You have to pay return shipping + 15% restocking fee.   Definitely stay away from any house knives with the name Richmond on them.


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## cooky16 (Jul 18, 2016)

Shun japanese knives .... any reviews...look beautiful! and also the Yoshihiro Gyuto Knives?


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

In the world of japanese knives, Shun is just average entry level.  But they charge premium prices.  What they may have over others is branding and english speaking customer service.  

Yoshihiro as i understand is based in Los Angeles.  They're a knife company that contracts various craftsmen for their knives.  Some of these shared with other vendors. 

I really think you should buy from a more local vendor or one that ships direct from Japan, because you will get hit with taxes, import, and VAT.


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## cooky16 (Jul 18, 2016)

ok thanks for info. Do you have any suggestions other than shun then? thanks


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Masakage line of knives I think are sold by a UK vendor. They tend to have some level of bling aesthetic. 

Japanesechefsknife.com should be a pretty good vendor option considering your location. Their offerings are largely solid, just depends on what you want.


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## chefspassion (Jul 22, 2016)

Ordered my knife monday and within 2 days it was in house  It is a Gesshin Uraku from JKI because Jon gave me good advice about what I should do. Decided to go with an entry level Japanese knife so I could learn more about how to use them before I finally buy a top notch knife. Don't want to chip my knives due to sharpening skills haha.

1 question. Sharpening the knife on a whetstone and then use a honing steel to maintain the edge or should I use higher grit stones to maintain the edge instead of using a steel? I think a whetstone will remove to much steel. Opinions?


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Congrats! I'd rate the Uraku at a step higher than entry level, personally. Solid knife for the price, has a bit more durability.

If you have a higher grit stone you can just do edge trailing strokes to refresh the edge between sharpenings. You don't have to do much, very very little metal removal.


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## jbroida (Nov 13, 2011)

foody518 said:


> Congrats! I'd rate the Uraku at a step higher than entry level, personally. Solid knife for the price, has a bit more durability.
> 
> If you have a higher grit stone you can just do edge trailing strokes to refresh the edge between sharpenings. You don't have to do much, very very little metal removal.


this is good advice


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## ron wood (Aug 4, 2016)

Shun is never a bad idea.   I have 2 knives that are Shun 'econo" brand and they were quite a value. Shun Name is.... $$$ but you know they ain't crap.... however.... a LOT of Japanese blades are real solid. Now that I retired I do not shop ...I got knives.   Find out about STEELS..Rockwell ratings.   You PAY for a VG10 core... but it performs.  You PAY for a Rockwell in the 90's.. but that will get SHARP.   If you fail to learn to SHARPEN......pretty soon your $150 knife will not cut like knives I have that were less than $50.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

@Ron Wood How are you sharpening knives with Rockwell hardness 90s?

A VG10 core knife can be had for barely over $50.


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## ron wood (Aug 4, 2016)

If VG-10 can be had close to $50... that's recent since 5-6 yr ago that was $90+.  I Do not have anything at a Rockwell over 90. My VG7 Kershaw may be close to 90.   Blue Steel carbon can hit 94, as can high $ "powder Steel.  Having retired from Restaurants, I have plenty of knives for Home use.   Very hard steels can be a bit brittle.   While I'd still use a stone, I might NOT use a conventional steel.   A steel with the ridges.. like you usually see CAN chip a harder knife.  For  a VERY hard steel, Ceramic rods work, or stropping... though Stropping is a skill you can't learn easy.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Current price of the Tojiro DP.

Can you refer to where you are getting the Rockwell hardness numbers from? I've not seen steels used in knives go above 66-68 Rockwell... http://web.archive.org/web/20080531085629/http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/blade_materials.html

Stropping you can pick up the skills for within an hour if you have muscle memory for the angle holding used in general sharpening.


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## jbroida (Nov 13, 2011)

Ron Wood said:


> If VG-10 can be had close to $50... that's recent since 5-6 yr ago that was $90+. I Do not have anything at a Rockwell over 90. My VG7 Kershaw may be close to 90. Blue Steel carbon can hit 94, as can high $ "powder Steel. Having retired from Restaurants, I have plenty of knives for Home use. Very hard steels can be a bit brittle. While I'd still use a stone, I might NOT use a conventional steel. A steel with the ridges.. like you usually see CAN chip a harder knife. For a VERY hard steel, Ceramic rods work, or stropping... though Stropping is a skill you can't learn easy.


i think you may have some very wrong data on the hrc of some steels... if you replaced the 9 with a 6, you'd be a lot closer to reality


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## ron wood (Aug 4, 2016)

You are right..... 60 is the point where you are getting into "high end hardness"    As to VG 10, I'd admit the $ dropped a bit but aside from SMALL knives.. $70 is about as low as I see.  That's still lower than  6-7 yr ago when I swas shopping for an upgrade.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

What are you considering as small knives? The link I posted is for a 210mm gyuto... And the 240mm is just a little bit more. Are you wanting to find an 11+ inch knife?


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