# is becoming a pastry chef the smart move?



## xmezzaluna717x

To all professional pastry chefs, basically, is it worth it?  I really want to be a pastry chef but the salary worries me a lot.  Is it worth it to you to work long shifts every day, on holidays, for low pay because you are passionate about it? Or would it be smarter for me to keep my baking as a hobby and go for a different career, like a nurse?

I'm very passionate about the pastry arts, and I have been all my life.  I create my own recipes, have worked with all kinds of italian and french pastries, cake decorating etc. I'm only 15 but I do have to start thinking about college and careers. I dream of being a pastry chef, but my family and friends tell me that i'm going to regret it and it would be smarter to get a job as a nurse or teacher and keep this passion as a hobby.  Help??

*I know this is the forum for professional pastry chefs only.  I thought I might get better answers here because I'm asking for opinions from pastry chefs, and if they regret it or are happy they chose this path.  if it has to be changed toa  different section, thats fine too though


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## foodpump

From what I hear, nursing hours are crap, but the pay is good and there are benifits.

Pastry Chefs very rarely make enough to survive, and the only benifits are coming home smelling like cake.

Are you willing and experienced enough to make this decision?

I'm not talking about passion here. 

Do you have what it takes to work crap hours for close to minimum wage for the next 5 years, with no financial back up if you get sick or hurt?

You can always keep baking as a hobby, do cakes on the side and "rent" yourself out on holidays to catering people. 

But if you work f/t as a pastry chef, very rarely will you find time to dabble in other jobs to earn some side income.

It's a tough decision, and one that should be made with a lot of thought.


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## rat

Well if you like working every holiday and weekend, long hours, having cooks hate you because you are pastry, sociopath chefs, being the first in and the last to leave at night because people eat muffins first and dessert last then go for it.

If you like doing mad wedding cakes, creating works of art from sugar, fat and chocolate, eating chocolate chip cookies right from the oven, warm bread oozing with butter, then go for it.

I would really recommend you try it out first to see if it is something you really want to do. Keep your options open though. It is nothing like you see on TV.

I don't know if I regret doing what I do or not, it has afforded me the opportunity to work in other countries, meet awesome people and   do some fun stuff. There are other careers which I think are appealing but having to do something else seems weird to me. If I could choose again I would have been an architect-I build great gingerbread houses.


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## jellly

My two cents....

I worked a career once with great benefits, good pay, room for advancement and co-workers I really liked.  The only problem, I didn't enjoy the work and after pushing myself to stick with it for years, I felt trapped.  That was no way for me to live.  Everyone's priorities are different and people with families to care for sometimes can't take the risks they might want to.

But for me at least, changing my career to the culinary world was the best thing I could have done.  I love my work, it's exciting and challenging and most importantly it makes me happy.  

It is a tough decision for you to make, but you are at the age where you can try something out to see if you like it and change it if you don't.  These days, most Americans throughout their 20s go through many job changes.  Some of the hurdles you mention can be overcome.  

I work in Las Vegas, where the wages and benefits for pastry cooks and chefs are better than some other locations.  Since many of my friends work in the industry, we all have crazy hours and work weekends and holidays, so that really isn't a big deal to me.  Spend some time thinking through why you might want to pursue this career and what might hold you back.  See if the pros are worth it to you and if the cons can be overcome.


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## cremedelacreme

It all depends on how far you are willing to go.... if you are that passionate then follow your dreams i live in the UK and if you work in the UK or EUROPE as a pastry chef then you are the most highest paid because pastry is a skilled job...not that cooking isnt but cooking is an art pastry is a science....

Good luck and all the best for the future.


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## paulaspencer

I agree with Jellly and rat. I think it depends on where you want to go in life in the next year, five years and beyond. There are so many places you could live and experience. What about entrepreneurial aspirations? Big city or small town? Close to home or world traveler? Sometimes it helps to think about the big picture and if any of these other variables would affect your ability to do what you love.


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## chefpeon

The only way I can "afford" to be a pastry chef is because my husband is the one who "brings home the bacon". I couldn't do pastry if I lived on my own.....the wages are just too low. At least where I live. Jelly makes a good point that if you live in Vegas, or perhaps bigger metropolitan cities, like Chicago, NY, and LA, you stand a better chance of making better money. I suggest when you are able, get a job in a bakery or restaurant and see what it's like to work in those places. It will give you a better perspective of the "real world", something that culinary school does not.

And speaking of culinary school, that's another can of worms.

Personally, although I love what I do, I wish I had chosen a different line of work.......one that I can support myself on.


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## chefelle

Well said, Annie.  I can do baking and pastry because my husband has a good job that pays the bills.  I'd probably have to live in my shop to get by if I didn't have him to support and help me financially.  I also have a Bachelor's degree and a Master's in an entirely different field so I do have a backup plan if I get sick and tired of working for slave wages. 

Pastry chefs are also largely being phased out in favour of a frozen product in alot of areas.  It's really sad but true.

Due to the popularity of shows like Cake Boss, Ace of Cakes, Hell's Kitchen, etc it seems the market is getting saturated with people with a desire to work in this field.  Finding a full time job in baking and pastry is difficult...I actually had to create my own job by opening my own patisserie.  That's a completely different story...but let me suffice to say...if I thought being an employee was challenging....it was nothing compared to owning my own shop!  At least as an employee I made a little bit of money...as an owner....well...let's suffice to say everyone got paid BUT ME and I worked the longest hours! 

With that said...there are other areas in the world where you could probably get full time work in this field for slightly better pay.  I know Chef Ed has mentioned that they are crying for good pastry chefs in Florida....and Jelly mentioned Vegas. 

But it is all true...the pay is not great, the hours are long, the work is physically demanding, and you and your family will have to sacrifice significantly in order for you to be able to work in this field. 

But if you love it...really love it...none of these things will bother you that much.  Best way to find out?  Go work in a fast paced bakery for a summer.  Volunteer to help out during the Christmas rush.  If you still love it...then this is probably something you could pursue for a lifetime.

Others have listed some of the "perks" that you can take advantage of such as travelling and working in kitchens in other areas of the world, etc....so there are definitely some fun and exciting aspects as well. 

Best of luck to you in your decision.  I think you're very wise to be carefully weighing all of your options now.


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## pastryev

I was reading every-ones reply and just want to let you know i signed up to chef talk so that I could say a little something .I know you're asking the professionals go with your  instinct and don't second guess your self if you want to change jobs because thing really didn't work out ,so you write a new chapter in life but i can tell you that you will never re grate looking back and saying, what would pastry be like if i went that route.

If you are clear on what you want put all your heart in it and practice ,practice,practice  you can be at the top of your game . Only after doing things for some time and picking  the little things up in the industry though other people you really get the point of "I've done my time " if your like me I started at the age of 15 worked as a dish washer went to prep cook but when i was asked to make pastry i was in another world i didn't go home smelling like the dishes or seafood anymore I was Happy and really couldn't believe i was getting payed for doing it  .The one thing school or anyone else for that matter doesn't tell you is if you can make yourself well rounded and be very good at it. you can make good money but you need to know very clear your self worth(so that if you say you can do something you do it and get a good price for doing it)and what you bring to the table you will have to work hard at this and always be your own motivator .You become what your environment is .YOU set the standards,You set the motivation ,others will soon follow and before you now it your at the top just remember to have fun along the way Because time is something you don't get back so make it count for you.If your happy ,happiness follows


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## blwilson2039

I just joined this site and am glad I did. I also wanted to reiterate all the above responses about becoming a pastry chef. I was 41 when I got into the field, tired of my old career (I didn't like many of my clients, either - they were so darn cheap). I, too, would not have been able to get started without some secondary income. You do have to work very hard for small wages until you get some recognition and can finally land a fat job. However, get ready for - as was also mentioned above - egos, bad tempers, sociopathic chefs and cooks and being treated with less respect because you're "pastry". I've seen it all. My last job paid $38,000 which finally allowed me to pay my bills, and I found out my predecessor was making over $40K. I got fired because my boss looked for ways to call me out on the most ridiculous stuff. I did wedding cakes as well, and they were never good enough. Never mind that they gave them away to book the weddings, but they did look nice. Everyone else I worked with said as much. I've never had a boss who held me to a different standard than everyone else. So, you see, it's not the most divine environment, but there are good places to work as well. I've had jobs that I loved, and a few I couldn't stand. The last one was the worst. Getting fired was a good thing for me.

Now, I'm planning on putting together all that I've learned and starting my own business doing the farmers markets. That will give me the freedom to do what I do best on my own terms. Especially artisan breads, which is big right now. It may end up morphing into a bakery, but I decided to hold off to have some fun with what I do.

I wish you luck, but do go to work in a bakery for a while to see how you like it. As much frustration as I've experienced in the past, you'll get that in other professions as well. I love what I do. End of story.

BW


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## chefstephanie

I've been in the restaurant field since I was 15yrs old...& like you have been passionate about creating recipes & art with food as my medium. I was discouraged by friends & family to pursue my career as a pastry chef.....for the same reasons you listed. Yes in general the pay isn't as beneficial as a nurse, but the end result is! You bring happiness to others with your desserts & cuisine. Think about your favorite birthday cake & how much joy that brought you & your guests. You will always remember that moment....this is why us chefs love what we do! We create not only beautiful, tasty treats, but we create timeless moments of joy & happiness. The kind you'll remember a lifetime. That's the legacy you'll leave behind in your career. Sometimes money doesn't give you full satisfaction...it's the want & desire to please others that's satisfactory! That's what it boils down too. I feel blessed to have a talent & a gift as an artist & you should as well. I encourage you to live you're life the way you want to live it! My father taught me something that I'll take with me always & that is..."If you love what you do for a living, you'll never have to work another day in your life"! BTW...I made $31,000 last year and I'm only 29yrs old...I lived very comfortably & traveled a lot this past year. You can have a good life being a chef...this field is growing & growing fast! Go to a culinary school...I recommend Le Cordon Bleu or Culinary Institute of America. Also, you can become part of the American Culinary Federation which is a way to always network....a BIG support system for chefs! Countless competitions & even Olympic teams! This would be a great career choice & any chef would tell you it's worth it!


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## chefedb

Smart move Yes. It is harder to find a good pastry chef,a big but here. Every pastry chef I have ever known had an inborn gift in his or her hands. All were extremely artistic. You cant teach this to someone they either have it or do not. You can teach how to make everything and ice it and assemble it , but to decorate it ? That comes from within. and again you have it or do not.


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## paneman

I am a professional Pastry Chef of 25 years. I have worked, taught professionally all around the world. I have opened 5 diamond properties and have worked up to a nice level of pay. I started when there was only 3 culinary schools in the U.S. It is much different now than it used to be. With the economy the way it is right now, just makes it tougher. The biggest thing that has really kept my career going was being flexible in moving to where the jobs were. That kept my career evolving. Just lately, my position was eliminated along with several others in a TOP NOTCH resort in Florida. I was apart of the opening team. 9 restaurants, 150,000 sf of convention space, 1500 guest rooms and I lead the best performing Pastry team I have ever been apart of. You would think that, how could they even think, to not have an Executive Pastry Chef leading such a large operation. Well, I refer to the above, economy. This company also has a track record of cutting back in ways that don't make sense. They don't lay a lot of importance in food operations etc etc. This is probably the largest hotel corporation in the world. ok, enough of that. next; let's explore the availability of pastry products for this kind of market. A restaurant/hotel can really buy anything they need the put together a dessert menu, albeit mediocre, in any restaurant/banquet operation. Remember, labor is always the biggest expense.

In all the people I have hired and worked with, I always lay importance in desire, passion etc. you have that I see, good for you.

This kind of work will absorb your every waking minute. If you want to be successful doing this. Don't get married, forget Christmas and any other holiday where people travel, dine, vacation and so on. Plan to work a minimum of 50 to 55 hours a week, every week, and as you progress in your career take that number and add another 20 hours to it. Plan to be connected to your phone, emails, covering shifts that are not covered by your staff.

This is a true and honest lowdown on the life of a Pastry Chef........not a celeb or other glamorous vision of what this industry is.

I wish you wiseness in your career direction.

Dolcidio


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## sarahg

That is a fantastic and wonderful reply.  Young lady, I would say that if you only read this response to your question, you will be very well advised.  Just excellent, Chef Stephanie!!!


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## flipflopgirl

I am a retired nurse (22 years Labor and Delivery) pulled down anywhere between 50-70 k per year, depending on how much I wanted to put into the bank vs the soul.

Did not see the need to pay off 2 student loans so skipped the fancy culinary degree (OBTW it cost MORE than my BSN) and worked in some very nice bakeries (what I didn't get from there, learned on my own)

Always scheduled my duty very light on shifts during holidays and always took the week off before a massive, fancy wedding cake was due.

Either career will be hard on your body, had to retire my RN after 2 lumbar fusions, still do the occasional catering gig and of course dessert buffets and the second generation wedding cakes (what can I say, those brides became like family and just cannot turn their daughters away)

So...you can have your cake and eat it too ;-)

mimi


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## pcieluck

My two cents

Pastry chefs, from my understanding, do average a higher salary than other chefs. 

I've only worked with one pastry chef in my entire career. It seems to be in low demand to have a dedicated pastry chef. The restaurants I've worked for making their own deserts and breads were having them prepared by the same people preparing meals, often a pizza guy or their garmo.


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## phil brain

I am the head chef of the restaurant I work in. I'm the first to arrive and last to leave. My pay, compared to the building trades, is crap. My hours are long and tiring. I continue to go back, day in day out, week after week. Why? I do it because I love it. It's more than just a job that pays my bills. When I was 15, not sure which way to go in life my dad told me that it doesn't matter what you do in life. As long as you enjoy it. If you enjoy what you do then you will never work a day in your life. He's was dead right. I didn't find cooking until I was 21, and fell into it completely by accident. You do get some bad days in any job, but as long as the good out weighs the bad then who cares? Do what interests you, and what you love doing. Remember what is money if you aren't truely happy in life.


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## laurenlulu

I had to chuckle a little when I read this, I was doing pastry and loved it but the pay/time ratio stunk. I decided to go to nursing school, oddly enough, thinking that the same needs within me to nurture and comfort (formerly with cooking/baking) would be met while doing the responsible thing by being able to sustain our income if my husband was unable to. Head vs heart dilemma. When I finished my anatomy/physio/prerequisits and was ready to apply for the program, I was offered a job that I hadn't even applied for doing what I love. What are the chances of that?? That was my moment of truth, moment of clarity, divine intervention, and I got back into the kitchen. Now I get to cook *and* do pastry and my soul is satisfied. I will never earn enough to be wealthy but as they say, money isn't everything.


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## flipflopgirl

With the average wedding cake (just for clarity we'll say it is fondant covered, white cake, buttercream filled with basic decos), depending on where you are and your target market (LOTS of variables, no? ;-) costing out at anywhere from five to fifteen dollars per standard serving, you can have a good steady income (say nursing) and create sugar masterpieces (megalomaniac?) if you properly budget your time.

Before anyone starts to complain, I am not a gypsy (scab) baker.

Family member owns a bar-grill and am welcome to use his kitchen anytime (thanks bro).


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## nits

Hi

I am a pastry chef.  My advice to you is do it! yes the hours are long not to mention the split shifts but once you gain and develop your skills  you can always move on to teaching pastry like i have.  I am now teaching pastry at college, working all those hours and split shifts was worth it or else i would not have the skills in which i possess today.    There is also a shortage of pastry chefs and the pay is very good!  Not sure where you have had your advice from but pastry chefs get well paid once you have mastered the art, so the younger you start the better for you...if you still want to be a pastry chef go to college learn the skill, i did my Diploma in professional cookery level 1 - 3,so i  learnt both pastry and cookery.   Could of stayed on to do my foundation degree in CA ( if you want mangement position ) i chose to put my skills to use.  Anyway cookery is big now, you will never be out of work and you will be able to work your way up.d  We all have to start somewhere, nothing is easy in life.    Advice, be very selective about where you work try and work for the big companies such as Great Western, Puma Hotels, Savoy Group, Barclay's, Claridges, Hilton etc......if you can your'e on your way....you can then move on to teaching but even that is hard work!


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## joelzer0

Do what you love and the money will follow. 
I enjoy my work, have great insurance, am well payed, and don't work too much more than 40 hour weeks.
I do work holidays though. And savory chefs do seem to give us pastry people grief. 
However everyone else loves the person with the sweets.


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## flipflopgirl

This is a good topic to resurrect.....

m.


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## armahda

Take it from me who works for the medical, financial, and insurance industry. Always do what you love and "live" around that salary. Being a nurse might get you a "better" pay every two weeks, but it has horrible hours. Yes, far worse than a pastry chef. It's slave work and satisfaction? Well, there are those who love their job, but over half are there because they are trap and afraid of changing. I kept my license because it was too costly both in education and maintenance. The medical industry is changing especially now with the new healthcare law. Trust me when I tell you, the change from the labor stand point is VERY ugly. So be very sure of going into it because it isn't cheap. Btw, how do you feel about wiping someone's ass? Let that sink in for a second.


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## edgar81

Hi Xmezzaluna, follow your passion and success will follow. Whatever you decide, please do it because you love it

You can't imagine how many people I see everyday in kitchens who are there for the pay check and not because they like what they do. For me it's hard to watch them sometimes. It's not "smart" to sell your dreams. We all work because we want a good life- the best possible. Having the job of your dreams is a big part of "the good life." /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smiles.gif


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## destiny

You guys are great help.I was doubting becoming a pastry chef because of all the late night and holidays but i think im gonna stick to becoming a pastry chef because its something i love doing. So thank you guys for really helping me know what i should do cause im only 15 and need to start thinking about college and careers because here in 3 years im gonna need to be ready and i have a question........Do you guys honetly like being a pastry chef???????!!!!





  








cake.jpg




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destiny


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Feb 20, 2014







This is stuff id like to do....!!??

THANKS!!!!!


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## culinary-kitten

Here is my 2 cent input:

Many people are not lucky enough to do something that they love to do for a profession. I became a pastry chef because I eat, sleep and dream in the industry. I am completely in love with what I do. I have worked for many great bakers and learnt more from them than any culinary school can teach you and as you progress you will always learn something new. Chef's are forever learning and expanding their horizon.  As with any profession  you need to work your way up the pay grade scale. I am luckily enough now after being in the trade for 7 years to be opening up a bakery and passing on my knowledge to my young apprentice.

If you can put in the hard work you will reap the benefits.


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## kokopuffs

Armahda said:


> Take it from me who works for the medical, financial, and insurance industry. Always do what you love and "live" around that salary. Being a nurse might get you a "better" pay every two weeks, but it has horrible hours. Yes, far worse than a pastry chef. It's slave work and satisfaction? Well, there are those who love their job, but over half are there because they are trap and afraid of changing. I kept my license because it was too costly both in education and maintenance. The medical industry is changing especially now with the new healthcare law. Trust me when I tell you, the change from the labor stand point is VERY ugly. So be very sure of going into it because it isn't cheap. Btw, how do you feel about wiping someone's ass? Let that sink in for a second.


I was a chiropractor who did house calls during the '90s and it was a true solid p.i.t.a.. While the profession is honorable if and only if honorably applied, the was too many hoops to jump thru. And I practiced during the telemarketing conundrum and by twelve noon, I had very little patience remaining for my patients after a morning of 20 or so telemarketing phone calls. The laws have made it nearly impossible to be country doctor anymore. 8^(


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## colbymitch

Ive been a hairstylist for 24 years here in DFW.   I have worked in a non baking Job all my life and I couldnt wait each weekend to bake something I saw in Bon Appetit or a magazine or a cookbook.   The weekends were my time to myself to emerge myself in a cookbook and try something new ive never made before.  It was like I was on a mission every week to bake or cook something that friends and family would enjoy .  Looking back through the years I  have always wanted to learn the art of pastrys and often dreamed of being a Pastry Chef. 

  As a single mother in her early 40's  of three kids I saw my life needing something a little sweeter so I decided to come to Le Cordon Bleu this fall and get a degree in Pastry.   My passion in baking has consumed me in my daily life as I talk about what I want to bake each weekend with my clients.   They loved to hear what I am making each week.  I am so lucky to have the support of my family and friends and clients that allow me to go to school and work at the same time.  My dream is to be the best I can be and to continue to be passionate about desserts so I can find my true purpose in life. 

I guess my question to all of you Pastry Chefs out there is it possible to be the best since im 41yrs old?  I start school next Monday and im so nervous but want to learn all about French pastries.  

  Thanks

Amy


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## flipflopgirl

The only time age has anything to do with a career in F&B is when you can no longer physically perform the work.
Hair dressers stand on their feet all day (mine wears 3 in heels lol) so that is not a problem as you are already used to it.
Your financials are none of my business just want to add this.... the money starting out may not be what you are used to compared to a seasoned hairdresser with established clientel.
All that aside, go for it!
I had to retire from both nursing and pastry due to the "no longer able to perform the job" bit.
I do still bake but now it is for my own pleasure and that of my family.
Get ready to buy a closet full of ugly non slip shoes  .

mimi


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## ofbutterlies

Do what you love and don't look back.

I'm working for free in a small patisserie and I don't care that I'm surviving off the dole, It's the most satisfied I've ever felt and I couldn't be happier to get up at 5:00am and limp home at 7:00pm

I've worked in IT for $80K+ and I've run my own games studio, but still, I wouldn't trade my job for anything... okay, I wouldn't mind being paid, but I don't care that I'm not


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## pjm333

I did not see it mentioned above but I might of missed it, your health / body is something to think about. I started in the restaurant business in my teens and now at 48 my career is starting to be a concern of mine. This business can be hard on the body and you might want to consider if you want to be cooking full time into your 60's.


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## kokopuffs

Not long ago I turned 60 and am seeing a tremendous drop in my energy levels.  Be prepared for this and keep up an exercise program for your body is the only real thing you own in life.


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## chipastry

Try to pinpoint what aspect of pastry you would like to work in. Small scale, large commercial, restaurant, bakery, hotel, cake studio...you want to do bread? Plated desserts? Breakfast pastries? Cakes? Find places that will let you stage for a day to help you figure it out. 

Having worked in restaurants my entire career...an average inexperienced pastry cook will make between $8-10/hr. Some places will pay OT, others will cap you at 40 hours, others will have you work for free for a couple of hours each day (essentially shift pay). Experienced cooks will make around the $10-12 mark (excluding hotels) and once you get into management; sous positions will pay mid 30s and exec pastry positions are in the 40s and 50s. You could very well be making $25k/year even with a few years of experience. 


Definitely be prepared for long hours, limited family time especially around holidays, and to work through sickness and injuries. But to me it's worth it. I love working with my hands, the camraderie you get in a kitchen, and the process of creating beautiful plated desserts. Every once in awhile I think about leaving restaurants to work in a bakery, but theres something so electric and vibrant about being in a restaurant kitchen. that being said, it's not for everyone....some people are better suited 
For bakeries or catering or wherever else..

Staging in various kitchens and businesses for a day is going to be your best gauge to see if you'll enjoy this career.


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## alekkz hwang

As someone mentioned this is a great post to be resurrecting. I am currently researching (yet again for the 50th+ time) whether I should pursue my lifelong dream of becoming a Pastry Chef. I can tell you I have read over a hundred blogs and articles on people saying it is hard work, little pay, etc and I admire those who have much more to say than the stereotypical facts. I decided to take some alternative routes and plan on finishing up my last two quarters in Psychology. I have a master plan of wanting to accrue different certifications in the food industry to piece it together as one and be a "one of a kind" character.


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## laurenlulu

If its a dream and will make you happy, do it. Joy cannot be under emphasized, it keeps me going thru the hard times. Have a second income backup plan though, the pay is not there for most


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## spoiledbroth

Typically most pastry work where I live commands somewhere in the range of 14-16 if you've got certs. Though I never worked in a bakery.


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## jfood

I know I may be late in the game, but I'm considering going back to school. I've been w the same company 11 yrs and 6 of those years I've been in the Bakery dept. I was thinking of getting my education as a chef.Most ppl suggest pastry since I've been in that area for so long. I really hope to own my business but I'm not certain which direction I should take. 

Open to ideas. Definitely have the passion of working w food no matter what!


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## kuan

You don't have to do school full time.  French Pastry School in Chicago does it in modules.


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## flipflopgirl

Welcome to Chef Talk...

See if you can get your hands on one or three textbooks that address pastry.
Pretty sure CIA has made them available for the public.

Look them over and see what you have already mastered and if that content includes (along with basic bakery skills) dishes you would see on a linen tablecloth restaurant menu or can make enough different pastries to fill an upscale bakery display case (include those jewel like confections here) you are one step away from certification in one or another aspect of pastry (certifications are oftimes just as good if you have many years of experience to back it up).
Extra points if you can create a pastry menu lol.

Then look around for an internship (inside your current company?) in one or another of the savory kitchens.
Go in with a good attitude and humble manner and you just might be taken under someone's wing (their "project" if you will) and get to see and do enuf for you to be able to make an educated decision.
Will you need additional formal education or have you picked up enuf along the way to be able to "learn on the job" (maybe take a few module classes to shore up your weaker walls).

Whatever path you chose I wish you luck......

mimi


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## fablesable

Heya Food welcome to the forum!

You ask a great question. I have gone through the same thing you are asking about right now and it is not as difficult as one might think to get both certifications as I have. I would suggest that you challenge the Certification for Baker where you are as you have the hours and most of the knowledge to do so after 6 years. Get your employer to sign what you have done and hours worked and then study and write the exam. This way you will not lose the ability to use your hours for baking if you choose to go the culinary route and then later decide you rather have your baking certification. YES the bastards that be will not allow you to use hours you have worked if a certain time frame has passed since you worked as a baker (same goes for culinary). They also might make you take the year worth of foundation courses and still use your hours and then you are pretty much guaranteed to pass your exam. 

As for the culinary route....assuming you do not have any training nor hours in this......you must start from the beginning and go to school and get the hours. You might be lucky and get some hours that you have worked in a bakery put towards your culinary but that is up to the governing board where you live. If you have some training and hours towards culinary then challenge what you can and go to school for the rest and then accumulate the hours. 

I would also suggest that despite what we all say here on the forum, that you do your homework. Really ask a lot of questions from your governing board to your fellow bakers and chefs to your bosses at work as they might have already done this for other people. Never be afraid to ask the questions and challenge the rules as this gets you to where you want to be in a much shorter time frame without all the red tape and wasting your time and money trying to jump through their hoops.

I wish you all the best!


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## remi love

I have been wanting to write to you for a while since I joined this site. I to was 15 once I went to a VoTech Highschool where i spent half my year making and learning about food. Like you I had done several things both American and European in food on my own. I was the best at food in my school hands down I dreamt of going to CIA and becomeing a chef some day I loved all there was to it. The creativity, the challenge, and at 16 I made significantly more than my peers in a local restaurant . Well this is because it was all kids stuff I was not the real world in food culinary or pastry . I was much better at pastry than I was at culinary I loved the cakes , the pies, anything you can do with pate choux I loved it all. Then I got a bit older and graduated high school . I went right into culinary school to NECI I lasted 4 months and was to over whelmed . I gave it 5 years and when I was 23 I went back to school for pastry arts I loved it but Pastry school was the hardest thing emotionally, physically, and scholastically I have ever done . I was drained 100% at all times it was a non stop battle I slept very little , never partied , and worked constantly . I am proud I graduated 6th in my class 3.6 gpa and went on to hate the food industry completely . I took 8 months off after college to recuperate you can only go full out for so long befrore it breaks you down.

Another thing Pastry and Culinary school are not designed for kids just getting out of high school like regular colleges are. Regular colleges build there entire student experience based on the fact 95% of the students will be right out of high school. Pastry and Culinary school base most of there student bodies on the fact that "most" students will be career changers so they will be older . When I went to NECI the average aged student was 30 in the Restaurant school my students around me we on average of 35 not 18. Its a huge _adult _world in food colleges . Here is another thing go to pastry school and you are not garenteed that you will make good money when you get out . In fact I made 11.00 and hour for years and often made less in other places I landed a job *5* years out of school where I made 16.00 an hour as an "Executive" Pastry chef this is with a degree !! The other thing you need to realistically think of is the hours in this field you go in before the culinary kitchen crew at 4 am to 9 am and get out at 5 if its a bakery or 1am sometimes even 3 am if its a restaurant . The hours are brutal you work 40-65 hours a week if not longer with little or no breaks a lunch break was dream as a pastry chef I had only enough time to smoke a cigarette if I was lucky besides I had no time for the things I needed to get done leave alone a coffee break . Holidays do you like Christmas, or Easter or 4th of july, or Thanks Giving, Cinco de maiao, or the lesser holidays. If you go into food you will never have another holiday off as long as you are employed as part of a kitchen staff. Weekends I cant remember from age 19 -30 never having a weekend off. Think about this this is huge when your friends are in town sorry you got work, when your family is having a get together sorry you have to work, when your best friend is getting married on a weekend sorry you have to work thats just the way this business is, know your expectations before you begin. I asked for a weekend off it was a big weekend according to the books I asked 3 months in advanced, a month out they gave me the weekend off . I got a call on friday night saying sorry we need you to work I said no you gave me the weekend off and hung up the phone. I got a call satursday morning to come into work and I got to the restaurant and they cleaned out my locker and gathered up my tools and said go away for the weekend and you are fired . I walked ! and said I had had enough this happened to me several times . I went away on vacation I needed it I got back they shorted me a weeks pay in my check and I was the execuutive pastry chef as a side note they asked me what I thought i sucked it up and went to work . Another thing you will jump from job to job to job looking for the perfect situation its not there . So think about never having your own life , making low to no pay, working super long hours, never hanging out with your friends, and having no time to spend the money you made till you either get fired or you leave a job. Now there is the other side drugs this is a huge drug addiction industry . I am an alcoholic Its how I delt with my anxiety, my little to know skills to manage stress, and my lack of a social life. Coke is huge in this industry people often do coke to work more hours to do more coke to work more hours see what I am saying. Heroin is huge I worked with many people who took painkillers of the garden variety to get through a shift of work. I have seen chefs male and female who were awesome untouchable for that matter go down the tubes and lose everything because of drugs and there jobs its truly sad.

This is the real industry we call food not everyone is a drug addict but they are all adicted to the rush they get doing food if you dont get this rush doing food what ever you make you might think about another industry you are young look at the posibilities around you . I thought it was all hogwash an went to school for pastry I think back now and think I would have loved to gone to school as a sculptor to this day 20 years later I still dream of being a sculptor or a photographer and they get weekends/ holidays off .


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## novascotiachef

I'd like to point out I am not a pastry chef... but from my experience of knowing pastry chefs, it isn't worth it. The art of pastry is slowly dying. Just my personal opinion though.


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## jcakes

I don't think the art of pastry is dying.  I think the art of eating out has changed dramatically.  Upscale restaurants are beyond the reach of the average middle class diner looking to go out to dinner on a typical weekend; the upscale place is reserved for special occasions and splurging. More frequently,  people foregoing dessert altogether; whereas they might have shared a dessert before, or they'll have another drink and not spend the $ on dessert.  The mid-level restaurants who don't have a pastry chef on staff will usually make a few easy things in house and buy in the rest.  When there's a recession, the pastry department is the first to get cut, and when the economy bounces back, the last ones to get hired again.  It seems lately that people are willing to accept mediocre, pre-made frozen desserts rather than something made from scratch by a pastry chef.


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