# after cooling the top surface of cake shrinked



## satimis (Oct 18, 2011)

Hi all,

After baking a smooth dome was formed on top. But after cooling the top surface shrinked as shown on photo. The cake is super soft with nice texture

Ingredients:

I)
60g butter, melted
80g cake flour (plus 1-1/2 tsp baking powder. Sift)
80ml skim milk
1 egg + 5 egg yolks

II)
5 egg whites
75g sugar
pinch of salt
1/2 tsp cream of tartar

Direction
1. Preheat oven at 170 deg C for 15 mins.

2. Beat 1 egg + 5 yolks until creamy with pale yellow colour & fluffy on high speed for a few minutes or until it double its original volume. Add in flour & alternate it with milk. Add in melted butter and mix well. Set aside.

3. Beat egg whites on high speed until white & frothy for about 40 sec - 1 min. Add in salt, cream of tartar and sugar, a bit at a time. Beat for about 2 mins until it's stiff & thick foamy. Once mixture clings & does not drip, it is ready.

4. Fold 1/3 whites with egg yolk batter with a spatula till well combined. Take another 1/3 egg whites, repeat the same step. And same for the last 1/3 egg white.

5. Pour batter into fully lined baking pan. Give the pan a few good shakes to remove air.

6. Bake a preheated oven 170 deg C for 10mins, then reduce heat to 150 deg C for another 20 min and done tested with cake tester.

8. Place the cake on a wire rack to cool completely, remove baking paper.

Please advise how to fix the problem. Thanks

Regards
satimis





  








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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

What's your elevation?


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## satimis (Oct 18, 2011)

phatch said:


> What's your elevation?


Hi,

About 1 inch. The cake batter is about 3 inches high. A smooth dome was formed after baking. It shrank after cooling.

The cake is cotton soft with nice taste

satimis


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

No, I mean where you live and cook, how high are you above sea level. Higher elevation baking is a tricky thing. i live about 5000 feet above sea level and there are things the elevation effects.


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## satimis (Oct 18, 2011)

phatch said:


> No, I mean where you live and cook, how high are you above sea level. Higher elevation baking is a tricky thing. i live about 5000 feet above sea level and there are things the elevation effects.


Along seashore at about 15' above sea level.


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## berndy (Sep 18, 2010)

Did you cool the cake in the refrigerator ?  Cooling it too fast could be the cause .


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## fablesable (Oct 11, 2014)

Your order of direction is backwards and there are a few extra things to take into consideration.

Your recipe should read like this:

I)
5 egg whites
75g sugar
pinch of salt
1/2 tsp cream of tartar

II)
60g butter, melted
80g cake flour (plus 1-1/2 tsp baking powder. Sift)
80ml skim milk
1 egg + 5 egg yolks

Then your direction should be as follows:

Direction
1. Preheat oven at 170 deg C. Always preheat well in advance of baking so that oven is at optimal temp. The '15 mins' part in the previous direction is redundant.

2. Beat egg whites on high speed until white & frothy for about 40 sec - 1 min. Add in salt, cream of tartar and sugar, a bit at a time. Beat for about 2 mins until it's stiff & thick foamy. Once mixture clings & does not drip, it is ready. Set aside.

3. Beat 1 egg + 5 yolks until creamy with pale yellow colour & fluffy on high speed for a few minutes. Add in flour & alternate it with milk. Add in melted butter and mix well.

4. Fold 1/3 whites with egg yolk batter with a spatula until JUST combined. Take another 1/3 egg whites, repeat the same step. And same for the last 1/3 egg white.

5. Pour batter into fully lined baking pan.

6. Bake a preheated oven 170 deg C for 10mins, then reduce heat to 150 deg C for another 20 min and done. DO NOT OPEN OVEN UNTIL ALL TIME (full 30mins) IS DONE.

8. Place the cake on a wire rack to cool completely, remove baking paper.

Okay so this cake is a VERY delicate cake and any extra fuss you put into it will make it do just what it did. So here is the main things to take into consideration:

1) Do not open the oven at any time when baking for the full 30 mins. When it says to check doneness do not poke it with anything, it will be about bounce back when slightly pressed from the top of the cake.

2) Get an oven thermometer to ensure your oven is at the correct temperature as all ovens tend to be out slightly. This will effect baking time and your finished product. If your temp is correct then your cake should be ready at exactly 30 mins.

3) Do not over mix. You are over mixing the eggs and getting WAAAAY too much air in them so it ends up collapsing.

4) Your collapse is also due to the fact that you should not mix your ingredients with the leavening (baking powder) and then set aside while waiting for other things to mix as the leavening will react with the wet ingredients straight away and then by the time you have mixed it all and are baking it, the leavening ability is gone. This is why I have restructured your ingredient use and technique.

Try this complete restructure and see how you do. Let us know how it turns out /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif


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## satimis (Oct 18, 2011)

berndy said:


> Did you cool the cake in the refrigerator ? Cooling it too fast could be the cause .


No. Cooled the cake in room temperature.

satimis


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## satimis (Oct 18, 2011)

Fablesable said:


> Your order of direction is backwards and there are a few extra things to take into consideration.
> 
> Your recipe should read like this:
> 
> ...


Hi,

Thanks for your advice.

The origin receipt does not call for baking powder nor cream of tartar. I just added them. Later in my search on Internet discovered that it may be a problem. The air on beating egg white causes the rise. If adding baking powder the cake will double rise. Shall I leave out the baking powder and cream of tartar?


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## fablesable (Oct 11, 2014)

Yes most definitely if the original recipe does not call for it then do not add the baking powder and cream of tartar as it is the duty of the eggs to do the leavening work. I would then retract what I have said and make the recipe as it stands in the original form. I did wonder about that as it did seem a little overdone on the leavening. The way baking is done is first try the original recipe as is to determine what the ultimate outcome is supposed to look like, taste and feel. Then, and ONLY THEN, do you adjust according to baking ratios and ingredient used. So if it is just eggs for leavening then leave be, if it is full fat milk instead of skim milk then leave be. Do not play with a recipe that you do not know. Baking is a science not an art. Every ingredient has its reasonings along with the technique. Delete or add ingredients just because will change the outcome drastically.

So give the original recipe a whirl first as is then let us know how it turns out and if you wish to change the outcome. We can help you from there /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif


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## satimis (Oct 18, 2011)

Fablesable said:


> Yes most definitely if the original recipe does not call for it then do not add the baking powder and cream of tartar as it is the duty of the eggs to do the leavening work. I would then retract what I have said and make the recipe as it stands in the original form. I did wonder about that as it did seem a little overdone on the leavening. The way baking is done is first try the original recipe as is to determine what the ultimate outcome is supposed to look like, taste and feel. Then, and ONLY THEN, do you adjust according to baking ratios and ingredient used. So if it is just eggs for leavening then leave be, if it is full fat milk instead of skim milk then leave be. Do not play with a recipe that you do not know. Baking is a science not an art. Every ingredient has its reasonings along with the technique. Delete or add ingredients just because will change the outcome drastically.
> 
> So give the original recipe a whirl first as is then let us know how it turns out and if you wish to change the outcome. We can help you from there /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif


Thanks for your advice.

I followed the origin recipes except adding baking powder and cream of tartar including the baking temperature and baking time.

Regarding sugar the origin recipes calls for 120g and I reduce it to 75g as I expect the sponge cake less sweet. Besides it calls for 80ml milk but without indicating skim or whole milk

satimis


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## fablesable (Oct 11, 2014)

Like I have stated, do NOT change the recipe AT ALL until you have made the original recipe just once to see what the outcome is. THERE IS A SPECIFIC REASON FOR ALL THE INGREDIENTS AND THEIR APPROPRIATE AMOUNTS. I say this in capitol letters as I cannot express how crucial it is to leave a recipe the way it is unless you are trained in the science of baking.

If you take 45g of sugar away then there must be something to replace what you have taken away. When a recipe says MILK then that means regular milk (which is 2% or standard milk, all depending on where you are from) or it would have stated skim milk. The fat content is important.

@satimis From what you have stated you HAVE NOT followed the original recipe AT ALL. You added ingredients that did not need to be there and used less of the ingredients that needed to be there and then expected a proper outcome. If you want a less sweet cake then look for a recipe that has a less sweet cake, don't take a recipe, not follow it exact and expect the outcome to be as they say it would. Again, BAKING IS A SCIENCE.

There are some great books out there that teach the fundamentals of baking that explain why you do what you do in baking and how each ingredient is utilized. Search this great site up at the top you can see a tab for reviews and there are loads of reviews from all of us about what books are the best for what type of learning you wish to do. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif


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## satimis (Oct 18, 2011)

Hi all,

Have another round adding ingredients in following order. Ingredients quantity is same as original recipe except sugar 75g instead of 120g

I)
5 egg whites
75g sugar
pinch of salt

II)
60g butter, melted
80g cake flour
80ml skim milk
1 egg + 5 egg yolks

*Steps performed*

*i)*
1. Preheat oven at 170 deg C monitored with an oven thermometer.

2. Beat egg + 5 egg yolks at high speed until it changes to pale yellow in color and put aside.

3. Mixed melt butter, cake flour, skim milk and finally the beaten egg yolks

*II)*

Beat egg whites at high speed until white & frothy. Add in salt and sugar, a bit at a time. Beat until it's stiff & thick foamy.

III)

Fold 1/3 whites with egg yolk batter with a spatula until just combined. Take another 1/3 egg whites, repeat the same step. And same for the last 1/3 egg white.

*IV)*

Pour batter into fully lined baking pan.

*V)*

Bake the cake in a preheated oven at 170 deg C for 10 mins, then reduce heat to 150 deg C for another 30 min and done without open the door of the oven.

*VI)*
Place the cake on a wire rack to cool at room temperature.

After baking finished a smooth dome was formed on top. At cooking it cracked and fell.

The cake texture is NOT so good compared to previous baking result. The cake is cotton soft but dense.

satimis





  








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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

@satimis ,

Baking is frustrating at times. Your cake looks a little pale to me. Make sure the temperature in your oven is correct. Check it with an oven thermometer.

Also, egg white can't touch any type of grease. So don't whip them in a plastic bowl. The plastic is porous and can retain oils from previous items. Make sure

the bowl you whip in is completely clean and dry. Let your whites set out for a while to almost room temperature. Don't grease or spray your tube pan, that

also needs to be clean and dry.

Just some tips, you may already know. Doesn't hurt to mention though.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Pray tell WHY (after all of the great advice from @Fablesable ) are you continuing to short the sugar content?

Anyway.....

Try inverting the pan on a bottle to cool.

Looks like the weight of the cake smooshed out all of the air trapped within the batter (you may be folding with a heavy hand as well).

If you still have problems move on to a different recipe (and follow it EXACTLY) as you are just throwing good money after bad.

If the new recipe is still a disappointment then you might wanna just buy your sponge/angel food cakes.

Like macarons some people just cannot pull off every type of baked product (IMO).

Not trying to be a mean girl..... /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif just dispensing a bit of tough love.

mimi


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

panini said:


> @satimis ,
> 
> Baking is frustrating at times. Your cake looks a little pale to me. Make sure the temperature in your oven is correct. Check it with an oven thermometer.
> 
> ...


pan..... what do you think about the melted butter?

Could that be a problem?

mimi


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## fablesable (Oct 11, 2014)

Thank you so much you guys for taking the time to help @satimis. I was on the verge of a 'smacking my forehead and shaking my head' moment so I could not answer back without losing it. I really dislike taking the time out to explain to people to only have them turn around and completely disregard EVERYTHING you just took the time to type out for THEM.....OY!

Here is why sugar is important in recipes that call for it. Taken from Fine Cooking website:

Just to be clear, I'm talking about the kind of sugar we use most in baking: the dry, crystalline sugars that are collectively referred to as table sugar. (It comes in several forms, such as granulated, brown, powdered, and turbinado.) When you understand how this ingredient behaves in recipes, you'll be on your way to becoming a better baker, because many baking disasters can be traced to one little mistake: tinkering with sugar. Using less (or more) sugar than a recipe calls for (or even substituting honey for table sugar) can really affect your results.

*Sugar stabilizes meringues*

Whip egg whites with sugar and what do you get? Meringue. More than just a fluffy, white pie topping, meringue gives lightness and loft to mousses, sweet soufflés, angel food cakes, and even some frostings.

Sugar stabilizes meringue in two ways. First, it protects the egg whites from being overbeaten. As you whip air into egg whites, the egg proteins bond and form thin, strong sheets that stretch around the tiny air bubbles, creating foam. Adding sugar slows down this foaming, so you're less likely to overbeat the egg whites.

Second, sugar protects the foam from collapse. The sugar dissolves in the water in the bubbles' walls, forming a syrup that surrounds and supports the bubbles.

*Sugar affects texture*

When sugar molecules meet water molecules, they form a strong bond. This union of sugar and water affects the texture of baked goods in two important ways.

*It keeps baked goods soft and moist.* The bond between sugar and water allows sugar to lock in moisture so that items such as cakes, muffins, brownies, and frostings don't dry out too quickly.

*It creates tenderness.* Baked goods get their shape and structure from proteins and starches, which firm up during baking and transform soupy batters and soft doughs into lofty muffins and well-formed cookies. But because they build structure, proteins and starches can potentially make baked goods tough, too. The sugar in a batter or dough snatches water away from proteins and starches, which helps control the amount of structure-building they can do. The result? A more tender treat.

It is here that tinkering with a recipe's sugar can have a dramatic effect. When, for example, a loaf of pound cake has a nice shape and an appealing texture, the sugar, proteins, and starches are in balance. But if you tip that balance by using more or less sugar than the recipe calls for, the result could be so tender that it lacks the structure to hold its shape, or it could be shapely but too tough.

It's best to dust moist cakes with confectioners' sugar right before serving, because over time the sugar will attract even more moisture and become sticky.

*Sugar leavens*

No doubt you've noticed that cake and quick bread batters rise during baking. Well, sugar helps make this happen.When you mix up a cake batter and beat sugar into fat, eggs, and other liquid ingredients, the sugar crystals cut into the mixture, creating thousands of tiny air bubbles that lighten the batter. During baking, these bubbles expand and lift the batter, causing it to rise in the pan.

*Sugar deepens colour and flavour*

Thank sugar for the appealing golden-brown color of many baked desserts. As sugar gets hot, it undergoes a cascade of chemical reactions called caramelization. In this process, sugar molecules break down into smaller and smaller parts and begin to turn deeper shades of brown and develop more complex flavors.

[h5]Sugar adds crunch[/h5]
In the heat of the oven, moisture evaporates from the surface of baked goods, allowing dissolved sugars to re-crystallize. This creates the crunchy, sweet crust that you've probably enjoyed on such items as brownies, pound cakes, and some kinds of muffins and cookies.

In conclusion, find another recipe to use that has already been adjusted for less sugar or make the original recipe you have as is. Hope this explains it better!


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Well put !

I even learned a thing or two.

mimi


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

flipflopgirl said:


> panini said:
> 
> 
> > @satimis ,
> ...


No

@Fablesable is spot on. I didn't realize the sugar was shorted again. You just can't do that with Angel Food cake for all the reasons Fablesable mentioned. The stability is reduced in the merengue

so it will act more like a mousse then a cake. I like my angel cake sweet because I usually use a sour fruit over it. Some of my recipes I sometimes put sugar in the yolks as well.

I'm not sure if Fablesable mentioned but Don't change the recipe!/img/vbsmilies/smilies/surprised.gif There are a bizillion recipes out there, just find one with less sugar. I wouldn't use powdered sugar either. I sometime grind my granulated in my spice blender.


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## satimis (Oct 18, 2011)

panini said:


> @satimis ,
> 
> Baking is frustrating at times. Your cake looks a little pale to me. Make sure the temperature in your oven is correct. Check it with an oven thermometer.
> 
> ...


Hi,

Thanks for your advice.

The temperature of the oven thermometer indicated 180 deg C, 10 deg higher than 170 deg C.

I used glass bowel for beating the egg white. The bowel and the whisk have been thoroughly cleaned and dried. They have been wiped with clean paper towel.

The eggs were at room temperature, taken out from the fridge 2 hours before whisking.

I used parchment paper not grease.

Regards

satimis


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## satimis (Oct 18, 2011)

Hi all,

Lot of thanks for your further advice.

OK I'll retain 120g sugar in my next attempt, as called by the original recipe. Granulated sugar, not powder sugar.

My next attempt will start about 2 hours later allowing the eggs cooling down to room temperature.

Regards
satimis


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## satimis (Oct 18, 2011)

Hi all,

One further thought.

I used "convention" baking to do the job.  Would "convection" baking help?

Thanks

satimis


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

The eggs should only need 30 min. Did you actually put a separate oven thermometer in your oven to check the temp. There pretty inexpensive.. Don't go by what the oven numbers say.

I would try without the parchment. It need the dry side of the pan to cling on to to rise up. Also, some baking parchment is treated.

If this doesn't work, Mimi said something about sitting on a bottle while it cools./img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif


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## satimis (Oct 18, 2011)

panini said:


> The eggs should only need 30 min. Did you actually put a separate oven thermometer in your oven to check the temp. There pretty inexpensive.. Don't go by what the oven numbers say.
> 
> I would try without the parchment. It need the dry side of the pan to cling on to to rise up. Also, some baking parchment is treated.
> 
> If this doesn't work, Mimi said something about sitting on a bottle while it cools./img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif


Hi panini,

Thanks for your advice. Unfortunately I read your posting after having finished baking. I only lined the bottom of the baking pan with parchment paper not on its side.

Have another round using oven thermometer and digital counter to monitor temperature and time, not the oven built-in timer. With the oven built-in thermostat set at 170 deg C the temperature inside the oven chamber rose up to 180 recorded by the oven thermometer.

Convention Baking
===============
During baking a smooth dome was formed on top. But near baking finished the top surface cracked as shown on photo. The cake fell after cooling.

The texture on top portion of the cake is nice but dense at the bottom, looking as if without rising.

Ingredients:

I)
60g butter, melted
80g cake flour (Sifted)
80ml skim milk
1 egg + 5 egg yolks

II)
5 egg whites
120g sugar
pinch of salt

*All ingredients were at room temperature.*

*Steps performed as follows;*

I)
1. Preheat oven with the built-in thermostat set at 170 deg C for 15 mins. The temperature inside the oven rose to 180 deg C,

2. Beat 1 egg + 5 egg yolks at high speed until it changes to pale yellow in color and put aside.

3. Mixed melt butter, cake flour, skim milk and finally the beaten egg yolks

II)
Beat egg whites at high speed until white & frothy. Add in salt and sugar, a bit at a time. Beat until it's stiff & thick foamy.

III)
Fold 1/3 whites to egg yolk batter with a spatula until just combined. Take another 1/3 egg whites, repeat the same step. And same for the last 1/3 egg white.

IV)
Pour batter into a bottom lined baking pan.

V)
Bake the cake in a preheated oven at 180 deg C for 10 mins, then reduce heat to 150 deg C for another 30 min and done without open the door of the oven. Temperature was monitored with an oven thermometer and time counted with a digital counter.

VI)
Place the cake on a wire rack to cool to room temperature.

From my observation it seems heat unable to reach the bottom portion of the cake therefore it doesn't rise well at that portion. The height of the baking pan is 3".

The Swiss Rolls sold in bakery are made of several layers, each about 3/4" thick. On baking heat is easily penetrating to the bottom portion of each layer therefore the cake is fluffy with nice texture.

In next round I'll use a baking pan of 1" high to see what will happen.

*And with "Convection" baking?*

Thanks

Regards
satimis





  








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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Look at the slice....

See the fluffy part located at the top?

Almost half turned out nice.

Try the bottle thing (it uses gravity to keep the air structure intact).

It certainly won't hurt.

mimi


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## satimis (Oct 18, 2011)

flipflopgirl said:


> Look at the slice....
> 
> See the fluffy part located at the top?
> 
> ...


Hi,

Whether you recommend inverting a tube pan onto a funnel or bottle keeps the cake from falling in on itself as it cools as mentioned in;

"Cooling sponge cakes"
http://recipes.howstuffworks.com/tools-and-techniques/how-to-bake-a-cake4.htm

I can try in next round. But I haven't had much confidence. I have tried this trick before inverting the sponge cake immediately after baking while it was still in the baking pan, a rectangle pan. It didn't help.

I suppose the batter at the bottom can't get enough heat to rise. Adding to it is the weight of the top preventing the bottom batter to rise. Besides after rising the top port will cling on the side of the baking pan. An ideal solution is making the bottom batter to rise first and gradually spreading to top.

Can turning off the top heating element help? Bake the cake with only the bottom heating element on?

satimis


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## satimis (Oct 18, 2011)

Hi all,

Following thread gives a thorough explanation on cake sinking.

Why Do Cakes Sink?
http://eggbeater.typepad.com/shuna/2009/02/why-do-cakes-sink.html

_.....
These two cakes sunk because the baking vessels she put them in were too tall and deep for cakes too heavy to climb tall buildings in a single bound in._

_When a cake rises, the batter is actually climbing a baking vessel's sides in anticipation of becoming what it knows it was always meant to be. The baking vessel is just that. It is the container conducting heat, thus baking the intended raw ingredient.
....._

satimis


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Top heat source?

Like a broiler/salamander?

Most definitely !

In fact an oven thermometer won't read true when there is a heat source beating down on it so your reading may be further off than you think.

Have you tried using regular round layer pans (2-3 inches deep)?

If you really want the tube pan shape you might have better luck with less batter in the pan.

mimi


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

satimis said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Following thread gives a thorough explanation on cake sinking.
> 
> ...





flipflopgirl said:


> Top heat source?
> 
> Like a broiler/salamander?
> 
> ...


I missed this before I hit submit.

Guess brilliant mind think alike lol.

mimi


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## satimis (Oct 18, 2011)

flipflopgirl said:


> Top heat source?
> 
> Like a broiler/salamander?
> 
> ...


Ok, in next attempt I'll turn off the top heating element.

I have no specific request for using the tube pan. It was because a folk on forum suggested me using a tube pan. In next round I'll use a rectangular baking pan of 1' depth.

satimis


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

I have only 2 things left, then I'm verruckt! sorry, dipping many stollen today remembering my old German Chef mentor.

Set your oven at 175 and put the cake in there for 42,5 minutes. Don't mess with the temp. Don't know where you got that method and procedure from.

Angel needs the spring to get going and it needs to keep going. Don't let it burn but it can be quite brown. Looking at your slices you can almost see the line where the temp dropped.  I think you said you dropped it to 150. I've never recalled anyone I know cook their sponge at 300F.

Number 2, is try using real milk or semi skim instead of skim. The sparseness of fat might be screwing with the yolks.

Also, FYI, save all that old cake, add some other baked goods and make a great bread pudding.


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## satimis (Oct 18, 2011)

panini said:


> I have only 2 things left, then I'm verruckt! sorry, dipping many stollen today remembering my old German Chef mentor.
> 
> Set your oven at 175 and put the cake in there for 42,5 minutes. Don't mess with the temp. Don't know where you got that method and procedure from.
> 
> ...


Hi panini and all,

Have another round. Batter preparation and ingredients are the same as mentioned on post #13 above except substituting skim milk with semi-skim milk.

*Baking steps are as following:*
_*Convention baking, temperature monitored with an oven thermometer and time counted with a digital counter, total baking time 43 min.*_

1. Pre-heated oven to 175 deg C. with only bottom heating element

2. Poured batter to a rectangle baking pan of above 1.5 inches in depth, filling up about 3/4 its depth.

3. On opening the oven door and putting the baking pan into the oven, its temperature dropped to 150 deg

4. Continued baking with the oven thermostatic set to 190 deg C. But the temperature inside the oven remained unchanged for about 8 min and then rose to 175 deg C again

5. Lowered the temp setting on the thermometer to 150 deg C.

6. A smooth dome was formed and the cake rose to double its height

7. At finish baking the cake top fell.

*Result*
1. The cake is over-baked and burned on 4 sites and bottom

2. The cake fully rises but the texture is NOT nice.

I suppose it should be the result of the cake with dense texture.

The original recipe was found about 3 years ago on following thread;
Soft Sponge Cake (fluffy & cotton soft)
http://www.celestialdelish.com/2011/07/soft-sponge-cake.html

But it has been removed later. I found similar thread on;
*How do you make super soft sponge cake?*
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090413151201AAlTA4k

I think there won't bear much sense to continue. I'll try to find another recipe on Internet. Or suggestion would be appreciated.

No, I won't dispose stale loaf nor stale cake. I would use them to make bread pudding or bread croutons. Thanks

Regards
satimis


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## satimis (Oct 18, 2011)

satimis said:


> Hi panini and all,
> 
> Have another round. Batter preparation and ingredients are the same as mentioned on post #13 above except substituting skim milk with semi-skim milk.
> 
> ...


Sorry I forgot posting the photo of the cake





  








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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Well, I think you need to find a proven recipe, use a tube pan and leave the temp at one setting. and for goodness sakes, keep the cake batter closer to your oven. You must have run out to your car to get it if your oven temp dropped 25 degrees/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif


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## satimis (Oct 18, 2011)

panini said:


> Well, I think you need to find a proven recipe, use a tube pan and leave the temp at one setting. and for goodness sakes, keep the cake batter closer to your oven. You must have run out to your car to get it if your oven temp dropped 25 degrees/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif





panini said:


> Well, I think you need to find a proven recipe, use a tube pan and leave the temp at one setting. and for goodness sakes, keep the cake batter closer to your oven. You must have run out to your car to get it if your oven temp dropped 25 degrees/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif


My observation told me that the dropping of heat when opening oven and put the baking pan in was caused by a large amount of heat being absorbed by the batter and only part of the heat escape. The batter was at room temperature at about 24 deg C and the oven was at 175 deg C.

I have been searching heavily on Internet about how to make a perfect sponge cake at home equivalent to bakery standard. There are many threads on this issue. I'm not alone. Over beating of eggs is one the cause of dense cake. But how to justify it? With a viscometer? I'm baking cake not doing scientific research.

I'll test following recipes;
Bakery Style Vanilla Sponge Cake
http://www.kitchentrials.com/2015/02/17/bakery-style-vanilla-sponge-cake/

and/or

Angel Food Cake - Homemade
http://www.food.com/recipe/angel-food-cake-homemade-12591

satimis


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Just being honest here...

You will drive yourself crazy with random facts found on the internet.

The cost of eggs alone will eat up the Christmas shopping budget.

That guy Buddy on (Cake Boss?) has shared his recipe (scaled down for home use) for sponge on his web site.

I suggest you try that and follow HIS instructions including pan sizes...not a bunch of tips found on Pinterest.

mimi


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## satimis (Oct 18, 2011)

flipflopgirl said:


> Just being honest here...
> 
> You will drive yourself crazy with random facts found on the internet.
> 
> ...


Hi,

Whether you suggest following site

*Meet Buddy ?*
http://bakeshop.carlosbakery.com/meet-buddy/

Actually on post #13 and post #24;

I already baked a perfect sponge cake except a little bid dense on lower portion of the cake. I mistakenly thought the cake didn't rise perfectly in that portion. Actually it was due to over beating of eggs. There are several explanation on Internet. Some folks also encountered such a problem.

satimis


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Please don't used a scaled down formula. There is so much more than just dividing a formula by 24. I can give you an angel food cake but what will you do with the other 47?

I quick question. Have you done all this testing with eggs bought at the same time? Lots of old eggs being sold out there because of the price.

Also, are you using a plastic spatula to fold in the whites?

You probably need to stop reading the interweb. You can't trust any of it. Many of the recipes posted are not proven. Go back and find and old Fanny Farmer type book and use that recipe.

Most commercial information that you read on the net usually has an agenda.

Make sure all of your ingredients are fresh. What type of cake flour are you using.

Please don't think that I'm making fun of you, I really want you to get the desired results you want so you can store it away.

I also wanted to mention, the next time your at your grocery store, go to the bakery and see if they will let you have a couple of their foil angel food pans. Don't know why, but they seem to work better.

Make sure your cream of tartar is new. Don't use something like a King Arthur unbleached cake flower. That's to much protein. Use something that is bleached and is down around 8% protein/gluten.

I think The soft as silk cake flour is low in protein.

And there is always ways to get around what your doing now. Buy another tube cake and split the recipe. Seems like the first part rises well. Just make two smaller cakes./img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

I just had our recipe faxed over from the bakery. I hadn't realized it but we split the sugars. less the half go into the flour mixture and the other half into the whites. The whites might be getting too stablized like swiss merengue and the flour might be clumping and sinking.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

My bad.

The recipe isn't there anymore (or it is buried) but I didn't do a very deep search.

I used old intel (thought he had written a smaller recipe for the homemakers out there) because as someone else mentioned there is a TON of unreliable info out there and having heard the recipe praised thought it would be of help.

I am out of tips and suggestions.

Good luck with your path to the perfect sponge.

mimi


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

satimis said:


> panini said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I think you need to find a proven recipe, use a tube pan and leave the temp at one setting. and for goodness sakes, keep the cake batter closer to your oven. You must have run out to your car to get it if your oven temp dropped 25 degrees/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif
> ...


Now I am confused.

Do you want to make a sponge or angel food cake?

mimi


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## satimis (Oct 18, 2011)

panini said:


> Please don't used a scaled down formula. There is so much more than just dividing a formula by 24. I can give you an angel food cake but what will you do with the other 47?
> 
> I quick question. Have you done all this testing with eggs bought at the same time? Lots of old eggs being sold out there because of the price.
> 
> ...





panini said:


> Please don't used a scaled down formula. There is so much more than just dividing a formula by 24. I can give you an angel food cake but what will you do with the other 47?
> 
> I quick question. Have you done all this testing with eggs bought at the same time? Lots of old eggs being sold out there because of the price.
> 
> ...


Hi,

1) The eggs used in all my previous tests were bought in the same time about one week, not discount eggs except the eggs used in my last test which were bought one day ago, also not discount eggs

2) Yes, plastic spatula was used to fold in the whites

3) I use "Farine à gâteaux Francine" cake flour
http://www.painmaison.com/fr/farines-pains/farine-a-gateaux-francine_R_215_673_.php

4) Heavy beating of egg whites also creates gluten which makes the cake dense.

5) I use Dr. Oetker Cream of Tartar (140g)
bought about 2~3 months. I only used it in my first baking not the rest tests.

6) No ingredients were purchased more than 6 months

Other advice noted and thanks

satimis


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## satimis (Oct 18, 2011)

flipflopgirl said:


> Now I am confused.
> 
> Do you want to make a sponge or angel food cake?
> 
> mimi


No, not for the time being

satimis


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## satimis (Oct 18, 2011)

panini said:


> I just had our recipe faxed over from the bakery. I hadn't realized it but we split the sugars. less the half go into the flour mixture and the other half into the whites. The whites might be getting too stablized like swiss merengue and the flour might be clumping and sinking.


OK, I'll try in my next round splitting sugar into 2 equal parts, one for whites and another for flour.

satimis


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

ok, get ride of the plastic spatula and try to find a metal or a non porous type.

I wasn't suggesting that you were using discount eggs(which I buy now because of the turnover) Eggs are very pricey right now and there have been many rumors that

the stores do not want any returns. I've been told the expensive top shelf eggs sales have slowed and some places are actually re-crating the ones that don't sell in freshly dated boxes and are marrying all the separate eggs together. So now if I'm buying for home I buy the ones that everyone else is buying. At least I know they are fresh.

Your flour is a little pretentious but it should be about a 45 which is good. If that flour seems moist to you, when you split the sugar for the formula make the half that goes into the flour powdered sugar and the granulated for the meringue. 

Next time you post pictures please break an egg on a plate and try to get a close up of it. I've only become aware of the egg situation a few weeks ago where I know a chef who produces a bazillion fruitcakes and they were having problems. The lab results came back that the eggs were not as fresh as they should have been, So he switched to a pasteurized product.

I noticed you purchased an item from amazon. For kicks, buy one of those really light cake flours, soft as silk, Swanns Down and see what happens.


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