# Everybody is a chef in now days



## chrisbristol (Feb 16, 2014)

I think in now days with all the cookery programmes on everybody seems to think they know how to be a chef. Sometimes I have read comments on tripadviser that make me laugh.

Someone once complained that the roast meat was pre cooked.  The owner actually sent a message back stating that of course it was pre cooked as it takes hours to cook it.

I really find it quite funny that everyone seems to think they know how to run a restaurant.


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

It's one of the unfortunate parts of our business.  Most everyone cooks to some extent or another so many people think they can do what we do.  Add to that all the cooking shows and people often take for granted what we do, feel they can do it better, or think they know much more than they really do.


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## cheffred (Aug 25, 2014)

People watch Too much television  I would like to put the general public in the trenches and let them experience the rigors of kitchen life.

.


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## theseeker (Sep 2, 2014)

Agreed, however that would be a T.V show I'd watch. Every week new people just thrown in the middle of service or a big banquette going wrong and to to fix it. That's where it counts to be able to do what a chef does everyday.


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## cheffred (Aug 25, 2014)

I'd love to see them try and figure it out without the knowledge.

It would be priceless and maybe people will have a better appreciation of what goes on in the kitchen.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

ChefFred said:


> People watch Too much television


Hey, wait a minute! I have a great idea for a new reality TV show, we'll call it "who wants to be a Chef?" See, we'll get this Chef--not just a chef-chef, but a Chef,Chef,Chef-you-know-a-real-Chef, one with full-sleeve tats and a knife made from a solid piece of unobtanium, forged by mystical dwarves on the very pinnacle of the Dutch Alps. Anyway, we get this Chef and give him/her a one year lease on a beat-up 50 seat diner and film the whole thing. If he opens on budget and can pay overhead within 3 months, we keep him, if not, we get another. If, after a year the Chef can pay himself a salary that is greater than minimum wage, we' ll sign him on for another 2 seasons.

But, being a reality show and all, we have to make it interesting, I mean, Chefs normally just cook and make a pile of money, right? Nothing interesting ever happens. But for every episode we'll throw a minimum of 3 curve balls, stuff like having the fridges break down when the health inspector comes, or "difficult" vegetarians who will only tell you what they can't have, not what they can. Oh! Oh!, wait! we can have cameos from like Jamie Oliver posing as a Groupon sales guy, convincing the Chef how selling your food at 75% below the menu price will somehow make you money, or Ramsey posing as a "professional blogger" conning the Chef to provide a couple grand worth of meals for a favourable blog. You know, stuff that never happens in real life.

Naw, the head office big shots will never go for it, it's not what the public thinks a Chef should be doing......

But in all seriousness, to answer the O.P.'s question, why do call themselves "Chef's"?

Same reason that bullies pick on little kids, same reason dogs lick their, ah, um...Private parts.

Because they can. No other reason

Look, if you want to call yourself a doctor, you better have a medical degree or a Doctorate's degree from some kind of a University.

Same goes for an engineer, a lawyer, accountant, or Architect.

Cops have to have a gun and a badge to call themselves a Cop.

Plumbers have to have a once-white van full of greasy tools and a dashboard full of invoices and Mc D's garbage or no one will take them seriously.

But you don't need *anything* to call yourself a Chef. Nothing. No degree, no piece of paper, no badge, no gun, just a poofy white hat.

That's why....

Now, in continental Europe, a pro-chef doesn't call themselves a "Chef", they call themselves "Cooks". A "Chef" is what you call the Boss. My cousin in Switzerland owns a autobody shop, and his employees refer him as "der Chef", same goes for a niece who's a pharmacist, her staff call the her "die Chefin".

Only in N. America......


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## grande (May 14, 2014)

Maybe another celbrity cameo could be the guy with a great resume who dissapears after two weeks, leaving an uncovered saturday breakfast shift with no notice. And I will personally fill the roll of the non english speaking dishwasher who still manages to argue with everyone...


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## beastmasterflex (Aug 14, 2013)

My philosophy on the topic has now become, smile and take their money they'll either come back or they won't, if you do your best what else can you do. I have one customer that comes everyday and has complaints everyday, but I take his money everyday.


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## theseeker (Sep 2, 2014)

Food pump I think your wrong. I think the actual chef community would stop watching funniest home videos and watch "who wants to be a chef". After a holiday weekend working 80 hrs doing 4 weddings everyday for 4 days and in the end find out that the banquette staff threw the toppers away just minutes before the guests departure and be expected to fix it. 

Did I mention it was a loonng weekend? Lol


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## kaiquekuisine (Apr 11, 2013)

I stopped caring about how people call themselves or direct certian titles or statuses. 

I won´t work for someone who "thinks" they are a chef...

Basically i let them call themselves what they want, to me it only matters now during the rush or on the line. 

If im getting my money at the end of the month, they can call themselves "the culinary emperor". 

I like to think, "the bigger they are (or their egos are), the harder they fall".


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## spoiledbroth (Sep 25, 2014)

There are alot of "chefs" who pull recipes online... like when you walk in and have seen every dish on the menu on the front page of epicurious at some point in the last 5 years you know it's someone who quit a cushy office job to "follow their dream" or it's some unbearably young fresh out of school culinary student who thinks Culinary Arts is equivalent to Restaurant and Hotel Management.


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

Old Post, I know....just wanted to add:

I find it very ironic that the cooking trade has no certifications or licensing needed to go into business, as do electricians, plumbers, and hairstylists, yet Chefs have been elevated to a near godlike status, simply because they took someone else’s recipe, or execution style, or art form, tweaked it, and now called it their own.

For this, they receive money, ratings, and their own television show.

You don’t see architects with their own shows, or electricians, plumbers, or even lawyers.

(It’s probably just a matter of time though….just wait……reality television coming to your house soon.)


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Even worse is how everyone in marketing wants to claim that some chef is behind their fantastic product.


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## tweakz (May 10, 2014)

From celebrity chef's I learned to make a vortex when poaching eggs, hone my blade over a cutting board whether it needs it or not and not wipe the blade after, and use kosher salt regardless of brand or purity. -Am I pro now?


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## decrotie2004 (Sep 29, 2014)

Personally I am not even close to a chef. I enjoy cooking that is it. but I knew a guy Right out of "le Cordon Bleu" in Orlando of all places that thought he was the "bees-knees". Every meal he made was "by the book" and you could tell the food had no 'soul' and it was made by memory and not passion.

This guy rarely tasted his food and got hired locally in Orlando, as head-chef,  by a restaurant that had JUST opened... His head got huge and the restaurant fired him. I would have considered him a line cook at best.

I'm not knocking the School, I just find that many people I have met that graduate from there have big egos, basic skills and little true soul.

I have no formal training, outside of a food prep class from high school, and many people say they prefer my "messy/rustic" foods over his "trained" approach.

All im saying is that some people that COULD label themselves as chef, probably shouldn't.


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## tweakz (May 10, 2014)

Did someone mention le Cordon Bleu?

Knife skills demo:






I wonder if Shun or LCB thought to sue her. -lol


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## decrotie2004 (Sep 29, 2014)

tweakz said:


> Did someone mention le Cordon Bleu?
> 
> Knife skills demo:
> 
> ...


I don't know if she was taking her time to demonstrate "knife skills" but that was slow and.... dare I say messy, compared to how I do it...


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Dear LCB instructor, when dicing an onion keep the root side on.  It holds the onion together which makes it easier to dice.


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## grande (May 14, 2014)

The only thing more painful than watching thar video is reading the comments... one day I'll learn


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

There are some good things you learn from that though.  Like the flat surface rule.  The onion must be stable, or whatever you are cutting.  Otherwise you run the risk of cutting yourself.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

I would like to see Flay or any of his cohorts  run a place that does 10 Bar Mitsvahs , 6 weddings every Saturday and on Sunday  10 more . Then Banquets mid week of a total of about 4000 guest every week September through June. Only one who could do it would be Chef Robert Irvine, he may not be the fanciest but he can sure pump it out.   ( I would have loved to work with him)

Chef Ed


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## grande (May 14, 2014)

@kuan I learned that one the hard way, doing something stupid to leek! So, point taken.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Grande said:


> @kuan I learned that one the hard way, doing something stupid to leek! So, point taken.


I think in this industry we learn a lot of things the hard way.

I stabbed my hand with an oyster knife. Believe me that was no fun.


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## tweakz (May 10, 2014)

So... wet towel under the cutting board to stabilize the board...

I tell my workers that it belongs in the bucket when not in hand.  Wood boards may be damaged by it, and it's unsanitary according to my servsafe training. The shift before mine uses filthy wet food service cloths for it. I have no trouble with board migration and actually prefer to be able to easily slide it toward me a bit to sweep product into a pan.

My home board came with rubber disks or feet that hold it in place.

This is the only place I've worked where they follow this celebrity chef tip, so I'm wondering how many chefs are putting wet towels under their boards?


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## grande (May 14, 2014)

I definately do, but you can use a variety things, including plastic wrap, for the same purpose. The boards are plastic so thats not a concern. If I don't have it my board slides around like it's on ice. Also I have my board up on a hotel pan a lot of times, so of course.
But yes, clean towels, please.


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## spoiledbroth (Sep 25, 2014)

Even clean towels are technically not permitted for that use. It is not a celebrity chef trick so much as it is one that is older than time itself... same with braiding up a damp cloth into a circle to hold a mixing bowl for making emulsions.


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

chefedb said:


> I would like to see Flay or any of his cohorts run a place that does 10 Bar Mitsvahs , 6 weddings every Saturday and on Sunday 10 more . Then Banquets mid week of a total of about 4000 guest every week September through June. Only one who could do it would be Chef Robert Irvine, he may not be the fanciest but he can sure pump it out. ( I would have loved to work with him)
> 
> Chef Ed


OHHHHH to be a fly on the wall to watch this go down.

I can see it now....Bobby boy coming in to the kitchen in the morning only to see 40 BEO's for the day on the clip boards....and he goes screaming in to the night.......(SIGH!)


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## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

Tweakz, we are going to agree completely on this one! The board towel thing makes me nuts, I do think it's a culinary school thing more than a TV thing though. From some class on How to Bluff Your Way Through A Stage. I grit my teeth whenever I see somebody with rigid, rehearsed motion, slap a wet towel on a table, plop a board on it with some sort of dramatic flip...you know, before even checking to see if the board is slippy. And fifty percent of the time their board won't even be level after. There, morning rage expeled. Ahhhhh.....


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## foodbylinda (Sep 16, 2014)

Oh how this feels like a dumb conversation? I think thats its great that people are watching cookingshows,it both builds their interest in food (which means people spend more money on food) and they get more picky. I think its a good thing that people get more avare of what they are paying for and they arnt afraid to complaine when they havn't got it, like when I this weekend ordered a fondant and more or less recieved a muffin,..But with this Im not saying its ever okey to be rude to the staff or cook. And I would never be able to handle a service, dont think that anybody who isnt a cook think they would, but yet again how many would be able to be thrown into a compleately new job and handle it? I have all respect for good cooks, but the industry should be happy that people care enough to complaine


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## grande (May 14, 2014)

Well, i stand by it, I can't stand my board slipping around, which they alway, always do. I've never heard anyone say this is a bad practice, and pretty much everyone I've worked with has done it. *shrug*


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## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

Grande, its not doing it for me, so much as the show many people make of it. Brand new stainless tables can be a bit slippy but I never find that many work surfaces are that bad.


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## Apprentichef (Oct 21, 2010)

I think my favorite "chef" was watching that tool that mangle the pig get drop kicked from Top Chef. I was literally screaming "WHAT THE F#$K ARE YOU DOING?!?" at the television...


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Speaking of butchering this is the time of year when bone saws go on sale.  I just saw a 30" one at Mill's Fleet Farm for $11.99.


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## alaminute (Aug 22, 2013)

That was painful to watch


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## tweakz (May 10, 2014)

I agree that it's great that people are watching them, but it's not always great what they are learning from them. My ex used to watch the food network all the time and all they did was walk people through simple recipes. I remember Emeril might come out and creep on some girl, say bam a few times, the camera man zoomed in on his bald spot, and that was often the show. He probably won the hearts of red necks with his 6 pack chicken. Rachel Ray would carry a crap load of stuff from fridge to stove, cook it in less than 30 minutes, put on that fake smile constantly, and every time she ate something it was the same eye roll. The people I knew that were fans of hers had no interest in the food she cooked. I watched some Gordon Ramsey's Ultimate Cookery Course but he really wasn't teaching anything significant in those videos. Good Eats was the only show I remember enjoying and learning from on that network. 

Youtube vids I tend to like better. I first learned the British way to make scrambled eggs from a short Gordon Ramsey vid. It was entertainment watching him cut a wedge of bread and burning it in the toaster while trying to cook something that needs constant attention. I then learned the french way from another youtube. I wondered why people would go on one of his shows and not watch these excellent short videos he made on how to do things that he has them do.

I didn't learn things like not adding salt until after eggs are cooked, straining eggs before poaching, the best way to cook eggs in the shell, how to make mayonnaise or hollondaise in seconds with an immersion blender, knife skills, spatch cocking, making a round tender and delicious for a Mexican grill, etc. They might tell you temperatures to cook things at, but they don't explain why or give you the knowledge you can use and apply to other stuff. 

Sadly the market seems to be about recipes. I started a blog to share with people tips, tricks, and techniques (tweaks), yet I think the most popular post I made was a simple recipe for a salad I came up with (romaine lettuce, vidalia onion, orange cheddar, blueberries, balsamic vinegar, and macadamia nut oil *optional hard cooked egg or chicken and carrot).


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

foodpump said:


> But you don't need *anything* to call yourself a Chef. Nothing. No degree, no piece of paper, no badge, no gun, just a poofy white hat.
> 
> ....A "Chef" is what you call the Boss. My cousin in Switzerland owns a autobody shop, and his employees refer him as "der Chef", same goes for a niece who's a pharmacist, her staff call the her "die Chefin".
> 
> Only in N. America......


Chef is literally french foe Boss or Chief or whatever you decide ro translate it as. So tale the N off your N. American comment in Canada we know what Chef means. I imagine in Mexico they do also. Its not complicated. I do however agree to some extent that the word Chef is being muddied by cooks who think they can run the kitchen.

The word Chef is literally on everything that says boss here in my province we are bi lingual.

IMO Papers DO count to be a Chef and a degree in management would help as well. We need to regulate iur industry and it is coming upon us fSt so get ready. Soon every person stepping foot in a kitchen will need at least a food safe certificate and anyone cooking full time should have journey papers or be working towards them.

Google has it wrong as well: ( or do I lol)

chef
SHef/
noun
1.
a professional cook, typically the chief cook in a restaurant or hotel.
synonyms:	cook, food preparer; More
verbinformal
verb: chef; 3rd person present: chefs; past tense: cheffed; past participle: cheffed; gerund or present participle: cheffing
1.
work as a chef.
"when they finish cheffing, they gather themselves together and they drink their owners' best wines"

Well there it is. Pro cook. We like wine yes we do.


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

Like this guy Apprenticechef is apprenticing under a chef to be a chef lol and calling someone a tool. Or cook? Whats the papers gonna say I know my papers say cook but My title says Chef.


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

tweakz said:


> So... wet towel under the cutting board to stabilize the board...
> 
> I tell my workers that it belongs in the bucket when not in hand. Wood boards may be damaged by it, and it's unsanitary according to my servsafe training.


Can you reference why it is unsanitary please?

And yes I do it haha. Willing to change I just don't see a problem with it and it works. I use color coded plastic ( gasp) cutting boards as per the health inspector. Would love to afford some nice blocks, someday.....

Thanks


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

> Google has it wrong as well: ( or do I lol)
> 
> chef
> SHef/
> ...


Ahh google.... what a crock, but not as big or as smelly as Wikipedia. So google figures the word (and verb) "Cook" should be replaced with "Chef". Mmmm...

What then, is the google-endorsed word for the "the one who runs the kitchen, hires, fires, orders and most importantly keeps the food and labour costs in line"?

Cheffy-chef"? Le grande Chef" Or using stah-bucks-speak, "Venti-Chef"? Can we make limmericks with the word chef? I never saw a cheffing chef who cheffed as hard as Cheffy-chef"...

Google prolly has a word for this, but being a web-based logorythm or whatever, you have to know the name before you can formulate a question to ask google what this name is.

See, the word "prostitute", meaning "one who sells sexual favours for money" was good enough for every dictionary and bible printed in the last, oh, three, four hundred years now? But that's been changed now, it's "sex trade worker" But it's not that simple. The unwritten rule is that "sex trade worker" ONLY applies to "prostitute", it does not apply to pimps, madams, or sales clerks at your local porn shop. Do these fine upstanding members of the sex trade industry have their own, new, google endorsed titles?

Butting getting down to reality, Canada does have a qualification for COOKS, called the Red Seal, and here in B.C. at least it is made very clear that this is a qualification for cooks, the word "Chef" does not appear on the document.

Ah yeesh, I need my coffee before I start work..........


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## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

The Canadian Red Seal, to my mind, is a bit of a joke. Maybe not in theory, but I have worked with very few sealed cooks that showed any cooking ability beyond what you would expect to find in somebody with a year or two under their belts. And as far as management skill, well the seal doesn't seem to have anything to do with it at all.


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

foodpump said:


> Ahh google....
> 
> Butting getting down to reality, Canada does have a qualification for COOKS, called the Red Seal, and here in B.C. at least it is made very clear that this is a qualification for cooks, the word "Chef" does not appear on the document.
> 
> Ah yeesh, I need my coffee before I start work..........


That was an awesome read Foodpump ( foodpimp? Hehe)

Thank you! I needed that today.

What about CCC then how is that going in BC? Chef does appear in that document? Im on the East Coast it doesnt seem to be keeping much traction here as perhaps the rest of the country? I may be wrong I am looking into it someday again.

Or is it Certified Canadian Cook in English haha. ( Certified Chef du Cuisine)
Thanks again


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## beastmasterflex (Aug 14, 2013)

Spanish have it down, word for chef is jefe (or jefa although I've seen a spanish guy get in trouble for calling a woman jefa)
de cocina, boss of the kitchen.


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## grande (May 14, 2014)

I've heard "chefe" before lol


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## Apprentichef (Oct 21, 2010)

chefboyOG said:


> Like this guy Apprenticechef is apprenticing under a chef to be a chef lol and calling someone a tool. Or cook? Whats the papers gonna say I know my papers say cook but My title says Chef.


Tyler Stone *is* a complete utter tool.

Yes, my user name is a play on the words apprenticeship, but I prefer to be called a cook because that's what I do. The chefs I've worked with, in Montreal, do more book keeping than cooking. I could have gone to Institut de tourisme et d'hôtellerie du Québec but I prefer learning by doing, research and experimentation. I honestly don't care what papers anyone has, talk is cheap. I've seen too many culinary school graduate *chefs* rotate in and out the door.


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

@apprentichef

Montreal is a great city, the food scene must be amazing! I did St. Catherine St once on a mini tasting pub crawl so much fun cant wait to get back.

Sorry to call out your name nothing personal my handle is probably sillier lol. Just saying it is a thread anout people calling themselves Chef haha.calling people tools dowsnt necessarily put you ahead in my book. I have no idea who the person is you posted. 

Papers don't matter to me either when it comes to hiring cooks. They can actually hinder some people because the Chef feels threatened I've seen that a few times lol.


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## alaminute (Aug 22, 2013)

Yo cocino, pero no soy un cocinero. Esta el mismo de ingles. Me nunca oido la expresion "jefe de cocina", pero otro ves, es solo me. Quien sabe.


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## beastmasterflex (Aug 14, 2013)

Que bueno para ti


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## beastmasterflex (Aug 14, 2013)

y tal vez necesitas comprar un libro de gramatica.


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## alaminute (Aug 22, 2013)

LOL es verdad. Soy chicano/chilango, solo habla la lengua de la rasa. Es triste pero hablamos fello. Tambien me nunca dijo esta una mentira solo que llamamos nos jefes aqui. Perdona me, no quero pedos contigo.


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## alaminute (Aug 22, 2013)

P.S. Las cucharas oro estar de vuelta


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## spoiledbroth (Sep 25, 2014)

chefboyOG said:


> That was an awesome read Foodpump ( foodpimp? Hehe)
> 
> Thank you! I needed that today.
> 
> ...


those certs are pretty much resume fluff... red seal>chef du cuisine cert every time


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

Red Seal is a pre requisite for CCC.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Awright you Canucks, I understand your um..."reluctance" to consider the Red seal as a qualification. I used to make fun of it too--200 multiple choice kweshtuns.

However, things have changed, dramatically. Alberta was the first to introduce big time changes to the test, which includes live cooking and meaningful tests. B.C. changed back in 2012 to more or less the same. And here in B.C. the whole "challenging" b.s. is slowly being thrown out. You can go to any culinary school and get a cook 1 course, then wait (and work) for a prescribed amount of hours, write the cook 2 test, wait and work, and then write the cook 3 which is the red seal. Obviously with each new qualification, there is opportunity for a pay increase--just as with any other trade. It is a meaningful qualification and one that many chains (Earls, Cactus Club, etc) are demanding AND sending their cooks through. Ironically the big hotels (fairmont chain, others) are not.i

You can read more about this on the Go2 website, (www.go2.ca) a prov. gov't office for tourism training.

So far as I know, it's only B.C. and Alberta that have meaningful red seals (which are designated for COOKS). Don't about the other Provinces, but Ont. better get with the program, or they'll be made fun of for years and years. You guys gotta remember, with the red seal we're one ahead of the U.S. as this is a Gov't recognized (not private) qualification--and one that many employers will acknowledge and pay accordingly.


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## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

Chefross said:


> Old Post, I know....just wanted to add:
> 
> I find it very ironic that the cooking trade has no certifications or licensing needed to go into business, as do electricians, plumbers, and hairstylists, yet Chefs have been elevated to a near godlike status, simply because they took someone else's recipe, or execution style, or art form, tweaked it, and now called it their own.
> 
> ...


Ok, I'm not supposed to comment here but felt the need to address the bolded text.

Well, you do, kinda of. The live well network an scores of cable tv show highlight design as though anyone could do it. "I decorated my parents house so I know about design." "I built the addition to my house so I know how to manage an architectural project." "I have AutoCad lite, so I've drawn up some plans and need you(registered architect) to sign off on them. If you don't, I'll just get my contractor to do it." "I saw all these Ikea hacks online so i'm going to design my own furniture. Can you draw it up for me?" "I renovated my kitchen so I know all about design and residential architecture. Besides, Home Depot has 'experts' to help me."

Ever since the advent of adobe products(and the like) - photoshop, ____Cad, Illustrator, Dream Weaver, Wordpress, tumblr, everybody is a graphic designer or web designer or photographer or architect/ designer. Technology has influenced a lot, and made information easily accessible, and dramatically altered the craft aspect as well (see photography). So has Design Within Reach, Ikea, CB2, West Elm. That kind of availability is now flattened the curve, and homogenized everything.

You would never be able to find 50 recipes of the same thing in .25 seconds in the old days or read Serious Eats for the tech or even research what the Maillard reaction is. It gives people a false sense of wisdom and ability. Cooking for 10 in your home on a regular basis means nothing in regard to running a restaurant as a chef, yet tv shows make it seem like joe schmoe is as smart and can whip up a michelin star dish. I get it. Seeing cooking shows and making one dish suddenly makes taste experts out of nobodies. I've had dinner at restaurants with people who only started cooking a few years ago and now they are experts at pairing wines or deciding which dish at a 5 star venue is done right. "Too salty" or "not the right flavor profile combination." I've had someone say they wouldn't pay more than $15 for homemade pasta, because you know, it's just pasta. No protein. Not knowing at all what it takes.

At the same time, you don't need to have tv shows proliferating your professional knowledge to affect your career or craft. It happens with almost anything these days.

Yes, I am in the architectural and design business.


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

@foodpump

I think most of the chefs in Canada who are " reluctant" to recognize the Ref Seal have not been given the opportunity to pursue it and are jaded. Or they failed. I've seen a few fail multiple times. The grandfather claude is probably running out so that is good. Challenging the test I think diluted it a bit.

I am glad it is leaning towards a practical test. That will probably help more cooks pass as sometimes multiple choice on suck broad topics can get overwhelming. 

5400 hours of time spent in the kitchen is meant to be the practical test and being signed off by a good cook should give credibility to the Seal. 

A lot of people have no idea what goes into getting it and have views based on hearsay by someone else who is jaded already. Or they equate Red Seal with " culinary school". Two separate things. 

You do get block 1 in school here on the East.
I forget the number but after 5 years the number of people still in the industry and completing there Seal after a 1 year college level course is very low.

My wife designed my house haha shes chef du architecture at my place. Wouldn't put in a triple sink no matter how many times I tried!


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## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

If the seal is becoming more credible in Nova Scotia, then I would gladly reconsider it's value. Like a lot of things, it gets tainted by its weakest link. If a practical component was added to the test, I would take it way more seriously. I have had at least 6 sealed cooks work for me over time, and average was the best thing I could say about the best of them.

My big thing about the seal is what does it do for me? I have no desire to work in a hotel ever again, nor for a government agency. In all seriousness, what does having a seal offer me and my career?


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

*"CHEF"* is just a vocabulary word.

_We work in kitchens ... It ain'te rocket surgery._​


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## alaminute (Aug 22, 2013)

Right! Rocket surgeons get breaks and probably lunches too!!


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

AllanMcPherson said:


> My big thing about the seal is what does it do for me? I have no desire to work in a hotel ever again, nor for a government agency. In all seriousness, what does having a seal offer me and my career?


As an owner? Nothing much, just that it provides a future for the hospitality industry.

Let me put it this way, I'm a big believer in the old saying " Look after the pennies and the dollars will look after themselves".

The pennies are the entry level staff, and the dollars are the owners, the GM's the F'n B's, and yes, the Chefs.

So say we got this kid, say in gr. 12, and he wants to become a Chef. How? is the big question. A zillion different answers. Then the big question, "how much does a cook earn? In all honesty? The best and most honest answer would be "It depends".

Say the kid's dad is an electrician, and he asks the same question. The dad would answer "Well first you get your first ticket, that allows you to install anything under 400 volts, and you will earn--at minimum-- "x" dollars/hr. With your second ticket, the one that allows you to work 1200 volts, you earn "Y" dollars/hr. And the last ticket--the big one for mega projects should get you in the neighborhood of "z" dollars/hr. Plumbers, gas fitters, steam fitters all have a similar system--most trades do and even most professions do as well. It's been that way for quite a long time now.

If I had "0" experience prior to culinary school, I'd earn probably minimum or just a few dollars above if I found a job after graduating. If I worked over 5 years in the business--regardless of culinary school or not, I'd earn maybe 5 or 6 bucks over minimum. And if I worked 10 years and above in the business, I might earn twice the going rate of minimum.

WTF is that kind of compensation?

Combine that with sh*tty hours, no benefits (hey, well maybe staff meals at 50% off) and how the (deleted) are you going to attract intelligent cooks?

The ones you want to grow up to become Chefs, Fn'b's, and owners?

No one's looking after the pennies. The private culinary schools are hosing them, and no one's stopping them. The Unions don't give a hoot, never did. They only want their union dues, and besides, it's the employer's job to find new staff, train them up, and give them bennies.

I dunno....If and when I decide to sell my business, I only hope there's people who have what it takes to run a small operation like mine.....


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## tweakz (May 10, 2014)

Wouldn't chef vs cook be like Autism vs Aspergers? -Aren't they both spectrum disorders?

Isn't 'Chef' a title of respect as in 'yes Chef' or 'yes sir'? Personally I don't like such titles (don't like being called sir). I don't believe respect is about addressing someone in such way similar to how an apology should never be coerced.

When I set standards which differentiate my shift from others such as not mixing old with new product; I take it on myself to take on whatever silly burden it may cause to do so.

As IceMan sad: '*CHEF"* is just a vocabulary word.' I know my assistants and customers have mad respect for me. I don't need or want an ambiguous title that carries no weight on it's own, and prefer to keep the relationships I have. They know be by name, and not by title. Those who care and are willing to learn are my peers as I continue to learn. Almost everyone will know something you don't, and my students do occasionally teach me.


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## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

Foodpump, that's my thing, a seal in Canada just seems like a tick mark on union ranking to slip into a job application process. The testing, from back when it actually was something I aspired to have, seemed like total bs as a marker of even core ability. I really wish there was a credential that I could work, earn, and be proud to have on my business card, but honestly I get a circling the wagons feel off of the current system.


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## spoiledbroth (Sep 25, 2014)

tweakz said:


> Wouldn't chef vs cook be like Autism vs Aspergers? -Aren't they both spectrum disorders?
> 
> Isn't 'Chef' a title of respect as in 'yes Chef' or 'yes sir'? Personally I don't like such titles (don't like being called sir). I don't believe respect is about addressing someone in such way similar to how an apology should never be coerced.
> 
> ...


??? are you saying a chef is a glorified line cook?


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

AllanMcPherson said:


> Foodpump, that's my thing, a seal in Canada just seems like a tick mark on union ranking to slip into a job application process. The testing, from back when it actually was something I aspired to have, seemed like total bs as a marker of even core ability. I really wish there was a credential that I could work, earn, and be proud to have on my business card, but honestly I get a circling the wagons feel off of the current system.


Do you have it or no? And if no, why do you feel specifically that it is BS testing?


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## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

Og, Sorry, I thought I had been pretty clear that I did not have a Seal and it has only been this conversation that had me even consider it in many years.

Specifically what gave me a bad impression of the testing process? Well, I am not going to name names but the key things would be:

The lack of ability displayed by sealed cooks (in actual cooking and general knowledge)

What I have been told by Sealed cooks.

What I have seen in two particular cases of people going through the blocks. One was my Sous years back. He was "fast tracked" through the system so that he could cook on the tugs. Basically, it was bought and paid for.

The other was a guy who worked under me. And I became his contact person for the provincial rep. That would be unsealed me, nobody asked, no reference was checked, they just had this restaurant on the list of places for apprenticeships, and that was that. Personally I found this situation icky and was great full that this guy moved out west and got me out of that. 

To be clear, I am not running it down, these are just my second hand observations that informed my loss of desire to get into that stream. Also, I had plenty of hours when I made that descion, even after the bump up several years back.

Can I ask you what you see in a Red Seal? Other than a credential that you need for certain jobs, does it have any real value in and of itself?


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks for clarifying your POV. It certainly makes sense to me and I imagine seeing how sloppy they can be on the government side can discredit the process very quickly. They should never have let you sign skills or hours.

Value in itself, yes, lots.
Its a ( supposedly, fast tracks aside and grandfathering clauses)structured learning process. When you have it you know what should be expected as a base knowledge from a block 1, 2, seal, and you can go from there with them. 

The On Cooking book, pro chef etc ate pretty good starts for an aspiring cook. That is all. 

You haven't seen the test and you call it BS. A little short sighted in my opinion. They will literally ask you anything that is covered in a 1000 page cookbook, so in essence in the end a Red Seal should have a decent knowledge of a wide range of topics and have developed the skills to perform them.

It takes all kinds. You see all levels of cooks taking blocks; from seriously challenged ( memory or otherwise), young and old, lots of experience to just one year or less( fast tracked). Very diverse group we are cooks, meeting the people I did going through the apprenticeship process definitely opened my eyes to diverse people I would have to work with. Its not for everyone either but the government likes to hold some peoples hand and you will see people getting their seals who may not be cut out as leaders and chefs, but hopefully at that point they are capable to productive, safe, good working assets in our industry.

I personally will not sign a journey book or hours unless I am confident in the individual and personally see them through the skills and time to practice. This is important to maintain and strengthen the process. 

I hope you see that it can be a very rewarding experience but the key is to find the right Journeyman to apprentice under. Basic concept, learn from the best become the best, search out good chefs to work under; seal or no seal


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

nah, for me, 'chef' Has


AllanMcPherson said:


> Can I ask you what you see in a Red Seal? Other than a credential that you need for certain jobs, does it have any real value in and of itself?


Look, this is the way it works:

The Fed. Gov't has a dept. called the ITA (industry training authority) They provide credentials for ALL trades. They don't generate the content for the tests or criteria for tests. Each Province has a board for each respective trade and that board decides what the test should be, an what kind of questions should be on the tests, and what kind of value should be placed on different kinds of questions. I sat on such a board which was made up of business owners and a few culinary teachers. My Province finally had the balls and brains to change the whole system--following Alberta's lead, and we have been all the better for it. It is up to you and your collegues in your province (Maritimes, I suspect?) to push your prov. gov't to change/upgrade the standards for cook's red seal.

Look, in your wallet you have a certification that you use every day--your driver's license. Big deal, you passed a written test and you passed a driving test, right? It is no guarantee that you will use the 4-way stop procedure, or not to use your high-beams on a crowded highway. Yet, you wouldn't feel all that comfortable in "other" countries where drivers don't have licenses, or have inherited or bribed for them, and frequently substitute the horn for the brake pedal.

Don't get me started on the Unions. Back in 2010 when BC was starting to put together it's new program, ALL of the hospitality unions were invited and asked for any input, asked to participate in meetings--all but one declined. Even though the new red seal meant significant improvements for the cook's trade--and this was the case in Alta.--the unions just couldn't give a sh*t.

My background is a bit different, I don't have a red seal, but I do have a red seal equivalent. I completed a 3 yr cook's apprenticeship program in Switzerland. You work your azz off for 4 days of the week, go to school 1 day per week, take written tests weekly, but you only get your "papers" after passing your practical test. Fail the practical, and you flush 3 years down the terlet, you can start all over again. And yes, I've worked with several Swiss apprenticed cooks who moved like sludge and made stupid mistakes too. The only difference is, they knew better, they knew they were f'ing up, and I always told them "you know better, you learned it this-way, why are you f'ing up?"


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

too. The only difference is, they knew better, they knew they were f'ing up, and I always told them "you know better, you learned it this-way, why are you f'ing up?"

Exactly this. With some kind of qualifications you can hold people to standards. 

The province of " The Maritimes", has a nice ring to it. We'll see that before we see education reform. Alan said he is in N.S I am in N.B. 

Good on you foodpump to help BC change its ways. Who initiated the changes?


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## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

OG, see that I can get, as being in as an opportunity to work towards improving the trade as a whole. Having a voice, to use a cliche.

Dismissing the test as BS, sorry, didn't mean to sound so smug. I can only act on my admittedly second hand information. I am asking questions of you and FP because I am reconsidering them. 

That said, and if I am wrong on this, please correct me, I don't find a single test based on Gisslin all that compelling. As one phase of accreditation, sure, but as the whole ball of wax? With no practical, no retesting, nothing to the effect of periodic mandatory professional development? As a trade association it seems kind of neither fish nor fowl. The Red Seal wants to be taken seriously, but at the same time seems so "easy to please".

For the first time in many years I am kind of intrigued by it, largely because I am at a point where I don't need it as a credential in the areas I want to move in. If it is a way to participate in the trade in an active way, that appeals. 

Also this thread is totally hijacked now, isn't it? We could take this elsewhere if mods would prefer.


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

AllanMcPherson said:


> "That said, and if I am wrong on this, please correct me, I don't find a single test based on Gisslin all that compelling. As one phase of accreditation, sure, but as the whole ball of wax? With no practical,".


There is 5400 hours of practical, in kitchen training required. Each task is demonstrated and signed off by both apprentice and journeyman. The training can include any resources deemed necessary to acquire the skills. CCC required a black box competition style presentation of 6 courses and is meant I believe to be a continuation of training.


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## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

Sorry again, I was kinda discounting the apprentice hours, I guess I considered that more of a requirement to write, rather than a part of the whole process. 

I feel like I am treating you like an unpaid career councilor! Thanks for filling in some blanks. As I said I haven't even really thought about getting sealed in a long time, when I was trying to work out what direction I wanted to go in.

I was just grabbing 40 winks and it occurred to me that I think I may have been judging the seal based on what I wanted it to be and do, rather than what it is and does.


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

Don't be sorry! Information is power. I've learned as well thank you guys. 

In the end this is what being a chef is all about helping each other learn and be proactive. 

The cooking Im leaving to the wife this weekend. Armchair Chef for the next while lol its going to be interesting and Im popping a cold one so see yas later haha!

Happy Thanksgiving! And thank you.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

tweakz said:


> Wouldn't chef vs cook be like Autism vs Aspergers? -Aren't they both spectrum disorders?
> 
> Isn't 'Chef' a title of respect as in 'yes Chef' or 'yes sir'?


O.K. let me explain it

--again, and again, and again.... 

In the army you have your commanding officer, and you have your soldiers. If either one is confused as to what their title is, and what their duties entail, they won't for long. Mm-kay?

A commercial kitchen is part of a business.

A business's sole concern is to make money.

With me so far?

So the cooks, cook.

The Chef sees to it that the kitchen makes money or at least covers it's costs.

That is the Chef's primary job: To make sure the kitchen makes money.

Media will have you believe that a Chef is "zee one 'oo makes zee 'ollandaise", make wonderful food, and all of that.

Wrong.

The Chef is there to ensure the kitchen makes money.

_The best way to do this, is of course to make and sell good food. This entails good ingredients, intelligent ordering, well trained and disciplined staff, intelligent scheduling, and a clean kitchen with well maintained equipment. But the primary goal is to make money, everything the Chef does is directly related to that one, ultimate goal. This means good cooking skills, good management skills, good HR skills, good accounting skills, and a working knowledge of equipment and maintainence--among other things. _

Have a hard time believing me, eh?

Just ask any "Chef", that is, anyone who is charge of a kitchen. They can tell you what their food cost is for that day, what their labour cost is for that day, what it was yesterday, what it was last week, and what it was last year. They can also tell you how many points their costs have to go up before their hiney's are canned. A chef lives by his food and labour costs, and any employer will draw a clear line in the sand before hiring, telling the Chef :"If you go over X% food cost, or Y % labour cost, you are out the door, are we clear on that?". It's been done that way around the world for centuries now. A Chef can also tell you what the going rate is for a good HVAC/refrigeration repair guy is--per hour, how much a new deep fryer will cost, how much a 10" dinner plate costs, price of 109a' prime ribs per lb, and what the health inspector's first name is.

The cooks, cook. They get orders from the Chef and follow them.

*And that is the difference between a cook and a Chef*

Are we clear now?

Here's another way of looking at the situation:

A cook is judged by what they put on a plate.

A chef is judged on his/her food and labour costs.

If either screws up on what they are judged on, they get turfed, no apologies.


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## tweakz (May 10, 2014)

@foodpump: 

You may want to rewrite Wikipedia's page, and Merriam Webster's entry on 'Chef' then:

'A *chef* is a person who is a highly skilled professional cook who is proficient in all aspects of food preparation.' -wikipedia

-It goes on to include varieties of 'Chef'.

All employees should be there to ensure the business makes money; that's not exclusive to Chef.


> The cooks, cook. They get orders from the Chef and follow them.


This is where you fail to see 'spectrum'. I bring my own techniques, and run my shift my way. I give the orders and assign tasks. It doesn't mean I'm also a purchasing agent, or make the schedule.

You may work in a militaristic environment, but not all of us do. Chef on it's own is an ambiguous term.

Feel free to continue in your condescension Mm-kay? -Typical of someone who demands to be called by a title.

-esquire tweakz


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Of course they do, but the Chef is one who takes the fall if the kitchen doesn't make money.

Foodpump

(no title, no esquire)


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## tweakz (May 10, 2014)

foodpump said:


> Of course they do, but the Chef is one who takes the fall if the kitchen doesn't make money.
> 
> Foodpump
> 
> (no title, no esquire)


In many places; the person responsible that isn't the boss takes the fall. I've also been an apt complex manager. The manager isn't always immediately to blame. It's a trail record and not based off a single tenant. I used esquire as a joke. It means nothing unless you're a knights assistant; but it doesn't really specify that. Can you not accept the fact that 'chef' is an ambiguous term, is liken to 'sir' or 'esquire' and has no firm definition? Honestly I don't know why you even care. True respect isn't given in the form of flattery....or are you like the the slave owner:






True respect isn't given by someone who is coerced into working minimum or near minimum wage for you. True respect is expressed by actions and disregards titles.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Yeah, I know, I know...

But I'm not talking about apt. buildings, I'm talking about commercial kitchens. 

If the Food cost goes above the rate set by the F n'B  or owner, the Chef goes, not the cook. Almost always the case with labour cost too.  'Course, if a cook was caught stealing which results in a higher food cost, the cook goes.

Don't take my word on this, and don't take wikipedias either.  Ask your owner/GM and Chefs from other places.  The Chef lives and dies by his food cost; the cook, cooks.


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## joel23 (Feb 18, 2013)

The exposure all the TV shows has given these days has been good for the fact that peoples pallets are more open to new things these days. Which gives us chefs more room for creativity . The down side is by sitting on your couch watching TV you dont see or have any clue of the blood sweat and tears that goes into the daily running of a kitchen and the hard work provided.

The other down side is every second person thinks there a critic these days cause they watch so many shows


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

*semantics* . /səˈman(t)iks/
noun
_: the branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning. There are a number of branches and subbranches of semantics, including formal semantics, which studies the logical aspects of meaning, such as sense, reference, implication, and logical form, lexical semantics, which studies word meanings and word relations, and conceptual semantics, which studies the cognitive structure of meaning._

*colloquial* . \kə-ˈlō-kwē-əl\
adjective 
_: used when people are speaking in an informal way
: using an informal style
: of or relating to conversation : conversational
: used in or characteristic of familiar and informal conversation
: using conversational style_

I really hate it when people use military references to real-life situations. I particularly can't stand Army examples. That being because I was a member of the United States NAVY. No offense intended though, and I will take none if any NAVY wisecracks are volleyed back. When I was in I was called _"an operator"_. NO, I was not a surgeon and I was not assigned to any telecommunication outfit or unit.

As I have stated numerous times before, I believe that _*"CHEF"*_ is only a vocabulary word. Use it and take it's meaning however you find correct. No one is any more right or wrong from anyone else depending on the position from where they stand or speak. To me, the guy worried about the _"food and labour costs"_ is called _"an accountant" or "business manager"_. The guy worried about the food put on the plates, the recipes used to create that food and the execution of cooking that food on those plates is _"the CHEF"_. He/She may do those things all by themselves or they may train/oversee other people to do them to his/her liking. I'm called _"CHEF"_ everywhere I work based on the respect I've earned over the time I've been in the food industry. People like to eat what I cook. I apparently do it well enough to keep me employed, and have people happy enough to continue paying good $$$ for me to feed them. I've never done any accountant/business type work in or for the kitchen ... but I'm still called *"CHEF"*.

_"We work in kitchens ... It ain'te rocket surgery."_​


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

*"Just ask any "Chef", that is, anyone who is charge of a kitchen. They can tell you what their food cost is for that day, what their labour cost is for that day, what it was yesterday, what it was last week, and what it was last year. They can also tell you how many points their costs have to go up before their hiney's are canned. A chef lives by his food and labour costs, and any employer will draw a clear line in the sand before hiring, telling the Chef :"If you go over X% food cost, or Y % labour cost, you are out the door, are we clear on that?". It's been done that way around the world for centuries now. A Chef can also tell you what the going rate is for a good HVAC/refrigeration repair guy is--per hour, how much a new deep fryer will cost, how much a 10" dinner plate costs, price of 109a' prime ribs per lb, and what the health inspector's first name is."*

THE CHEF is just a word these days Foodpump. This quote is the way things SHOULD be Chef but, I'll just bet that there are many, many, many places out there where the Chef hasn't got a clue


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## spoiledbroth (Sep 25, 2014)

tweakz said:


> In many places; the person responsible that isn't the boss takes the fall. I've also been an apt complex manager. The manager isn't always immediately to blame. It's a trail record and not based off a single tenant. I used esquire as a joke. It means nothing unless you're a knights assistant; but it doesn't really specify that. Can you not accept the fact that 'chef' is an ambiguous term, is liken to 'sir' or 'esquire' and has no firm definition? Honestly I don't know why you even care. True respect isn't given in the form of flattery....or are you like the the slave owner:
> 
> True respect isn't given by someone who is coerced into working minimum or near minimum wage for you. True respect is expressed by actions and disregards titles.


Honestly I don't want to be rude but in general you sound like you're very very green vis-a-vis working in kitchens... and life? "True respect is expressed [sic] by actions and disregards titles"


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## tweakz (May 10, 2014)

SpoiledBroth said:


> Honestly I don't want to be rude but in general you sound like you're very very green vis-a-vis working in kitchens... and life? "True respect is expressed [sic] by actions and disregards titles"


You're trolling. I'm 43. I've been working since I was 14 and got out of school early to go to work at a job for which I self trained from a book and hand's on practice. I've had at times 2 full time jobs and 2 part time. My second job lasted 3 years and had me cooking 2 times a day 5 days a week for a nursing home. I've worked in more kitchens since than you can count on two hands, but have experience in multiple other jobs. I'll admit to having no experience as an executive chef. I can tell you from a cooks perspective how well you are really respected when called chef out of fear of losing a job vs how well you are respected when you're valued as an employer when that employer isn't a coke head or egomaniac. I've been fortunate enough to have worked for good people and know how a kitchen should and can be run.


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## spoiledbroth (Sep 25, 2014)

tweakz said:


> I'll admit to having no experience as an executive chef.


ding ding ding, execution is not the be all end all of a restaurant...! Cooking 2 times a day 5 times a week for seniors isn't really impressive :/ What you are saying (re spectrum), is patently untrue, as there is typically a varying degree of paperwork involved, clerical/operational concerns, and of course the whole creativity aspect of being a chef (ie dictating a menu)


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## tweakz (May 10, 2014)

> execution is not the be all end all of a restaurant...! Cooking 2 times a day 5 times a week for seniors isn't really impressive


Seriously I can't see how you aren't banned from these forums. Did I not mention this was merely my second job, and I started working a regular job at the age of 14 which contradicts your false assertion of me not having experience working?: 'you sound like you're very very green vis-a-vis working in kitchens... and life?'


> So to say a chef is just a glorified line crook or someone who played the game really well does a serious disservice to everyone in this industry who is doing it well.


Your words; not mine troll.


> Seems like a pretty immature view of the job title to me, you must have worked for some shitty chefs as well, and my condolences for that but you can't go around spouting off that the title doesn't mean anything and that your boss has to earn your respect... that kind of crap is espoused by alot of novice cooks.


You're making up your own definition of 'Chef'. You don't agree with wikipedia, Merriam Webster, etc. Wikipedia entries can be edited, but you would rather claim authority than edit them.

You have no clue what real respect is, or what the definition of Chef actually is. You're just a forum troll and loser that resorts to personal attacks.


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## spoiledbroth (Sep 25, 2014)

No I just offered what I felt was a legitimate defense of the position of chef, based on my experience working in kitchens. I'm not making up my own definition of chef...  Did not mean to upset you I just geniunely disagree with anyone who thinks even half of a chefs job takes place in the kitchen, and I would understand why someone who had not worked closely with a chef would not understand that and would erroneously believe a chef is just a "highly proficient cook, skilled in all aspects of preparing food" (a definition I think is so loosely worded as to encompass an almost unlimited number of things -- and rightfully so).


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## beastmasterflex (Aug 14, 2013)

Finally... I don't feel like the biggest jerk here


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## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

Getting back to the spirit of the thread topic...one of the downsides of the state of cooking television are all of these competition shows. They really make us look so small, petty and argumentative. It's so unlike the reality of ....ah, never mind.


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

Very true, of course you expect it from fiction, but "reality" shows are famous for depicting

vocations completely inaccurately. Look at the "real-life" cop shows for instance. Cops who

arrive at a fairly docile scene and yank their weapon for the cameras. Sweetness and honey

to the 350 pound suspect who just spit at him. Yeah yeah.

The upside is I think most viewers know their chain's being yanked, that's pretty much

what they signed up for.


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## alaminute (Aug 22, 2013)

I love going around blowing out my coworkers pilot lights and turning down their ovens. It just makes me look so much better in front of my chef!


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## tweakz (May 10, 2014)

Lol, I love pulling a nicely browned crispy skinned whole chicken out of my pressure cooker.


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## andopolos (Sep 11, 2014)

Jeez, get back to work yis eejits, (irish slang for 'you idiots')the stand out thing in this whole discussion is that chefs have big fragile egos.  We all know that 'The Chef" is the one who makes or breaks the joint, if the chef is good we're all good, if not we're not.  in french a cook is called a cuisinier, or cuisto for short.  so lets all be cuistos and get back to work.

can some one end this thread, its quite disturbing the hearts/egos on sleeves, really guys, relax you're all chefs.....


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

DELETED


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

@andopolos ... **shrugs** scrolling back, looks to me like it was already resolved and orig topic continued. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/confused.gif

No differing opinions == borrrrrrrrrring. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Andopolos said:


> Jeez, get back to work yis eejits,


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

Andopolos said:


> Jeez, get back to work yis eejits, (irish slang for 'you idiots')the stand out thing in this whole discussion is that chefs have big fragile egos. We all know that 'The Chef" is the one who makes or breaks the joint, if the chef is good we're all good, if not we're not. in french a cook is called a cuisinier, or cuisto for short. so lets all be cuistos and get back to work.
> 
> can some one end this thread, its quite disturbing the hearts/egos on sleeves, really guys, relax you're all chefs.....


To quote an old German Chef I used to work with...

in a very thick accent....

"You guys...you sit, you fart around, you get nothing done....the honeymoon is over!"


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## spoiledbroth (Sep 25, 2014)

Meezenplaz said:


> Very true, of course you expect it from fiction, but "reality" shows are famous for depicting
> vocations completely inaccurately. Look at the "real-life" cop shows for instance. Cops who
> arrive at a fairly docile scene and yank their weapon for the cameras. Sweetness and honey
> to the 350 pound suspect who just spit at him. Yeah yeah.
> ...


I think this could be said for most competition cooking lol 


chefboyOG said:


> Can you reference why it is unsanitary please?
> 
> And yes I do it haha. Willing to change I just don't see a problem with it and it works. I use color coded plastic ( gasp) cutting boards as per the health inspector. Would love to afford some nice blocks, someday.....
> 
> Thanks


Most health departments in Canada regulate that all rags be stored in sani buckets or on the waistband of your apron, no shoulder nonsense (hair sheds) and rags are not to be left on the counter. At least in my province it leads to marks off on an inspection.


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

Most health departments in Canada regulate that all rags be stored in sani buckets or on the waistband of your apron, no shoulder nonsense (hair sheds) and rags are not to be left on the counter. At least in my province it leads to marks off on an inspection.[/quote]

You lost points or were told by the health inspector specifically to remove cloth on counter under a cutting board under threat of lost points? Or is it something you heard third hand? Please reference it specifically. What province are you in. I will call them. If its true I suppose I will have to adapt. Nothing worse than a yellow card.

Obviously dirty rags on counter are unsanitary. I don't see them commenting on a clean cloth under a cutting board , put there on purpose, clean,for safety. Doesn't make sense to me. I've never seen them look under a board either. They usually check my boards to make sure they are smooth no deep gouges.

I'll put a clean cloth on the counter if I want to as well. Wet cloths need to be in bucket. I like to have tons of cloths on hand and laundry is done twice daily.

Rags are stored in a bucket, not in sanitizer unless its in use. Then it should be used and disposed of ( dirty wash pile) don't just leave it there in a dirty bucket in the counter. Rags in apron are for taking things out of oven, not cleaning. Otherwise that is unsanitary as well.

And Im not trying to be smart just don't want yellow card and will have to change kitchen procedure. Taking a another food safety course next month I can ask them to clarify I suppose.


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## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

SB every province is different, and within that, every inspector has their own bugbears.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

How many inspectors are there, and how often do they walk into your place? Some of you all talk about these things like it's every third customer walking into your kitchen with an inspection sheet. From so many of the conversations here it seems like nobody ever cooks anything. If you have decent enough practices, and you make good enough food, things work out.


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

I have two inspectors in my area they are mandated to come once on six months by law. More if you have infractions. I dont want them more 

Its chefs talk not cook talk ice man I know you love that word haha. Science rocketists we arent. It is important to me if a cloth under a board is actually a hazard, I have to teach people these methods and back it up. Thats what Chefs do. You asked.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Re:  This whole cloth under the cutting board, um..."situation"

What I donb't understand is why you guys haven't figured out that two moist paper towels or cocktail napkins will do the trick better than a cloth.

I figured that one out at age 17 , when, as a prep-cook I wasn't allowed any bar-wipes (only for cooks!) and was given a nylon cutting board with a serious cup in it, and a warped s/steel prep table with a serious buckle in it.

I got a million stories about health inspectors, none of them very flattering,  Buy me a few beers and I'd be happy to tell all.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

LOL. So basically, chefboyOG, you don't really _cook_ anything?!? You just _administrate_?!? You play _"Boss Person"_ and have a nice day. I get it. LOL.


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

Who says I never used paper towel, or " figured" it out lol. It works ok also, better I dont know about that, maybe. Cloths are re useable and easier access then paper towel in my kitchen. 

Why yall have a problem with me trying to figure out why it is illegal is beyond me. I guess its the lifestyle to get in bunch about every little thing. Its hard to be constructive without criticizing. Its not a "situation". But I will keep on using cloths I guess lol 

I am very interested in all matters of food safety, that is the " why" @foodpump. And perhaps I have too much time on my hands these days! Hah, I'd sure love some beers and inspector stories! Nightmares they are.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

IceMan said:


> LOL. So basically, chefboyOG, you don't really _cook_ anything?!? You just _administrate_?!? You play _"Boss Person"_ and have a nice day. I get it. LOL.


Huh?

Who said anything about not cooking?

If you gotta train the staff not to jam a stinky rag under a cutting board, then that's what you gotta do. If you gotta train the dishwasher how to scrape plates *before *putting them in the d/washer, then that's what you gotta do. If you have to train the line cook not to put raw wings into the deep fryer with the fresh oil in it, then that's what you gotta do.

If it is your kitchen do you do this, or do you let someone else train your staff? Does training staff not to make stupid mistakes make you an "administrator" or is part of the job?


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

IceMan said:


> LOL. So basically, chefboyOG, you don't really _cook_ anything?!? You just _administrate_?!? You play _"Boss Person"_ and have a nice day. I get it. LOL.


Ha yeah. No, I do cook. 
There is also a lot of admin and especially teaching involved. Cant do then teach eh! You got me all figured out iceman.

My kitchen isn't that big and Im sous so I don't have to do admin at all times.

That was rude. Ya got me. Thanks for playing.

" play boss person" hah yeah fun game.

I'll stop now. Thanks.


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks foodpump


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## beastmasterflex (Aug 14, 2013)

Everyone is so feisty this week, I love it.

edit. Is it restaurant week where y'all are or something?


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## spoiledbroth (Sep 25, 2014)

MB, the inspections are handled by provincial officials however they are rare now they have moved to administering through province rather than municipality. They seem to be more rigid. Either way we try to score as close to 100 as possible, failing grades are posted nline for public speculation here. Same with liquor license infractions. I believe it is handled by MB Health but don't quote me on that, they'd be able to point you in the right direction though. And yes I heard this first hand from an inspector on a walkthrough. He was nitpicking mostly.


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