# Should I hire a Chef right out of Culinary School?



## chefwanted

I am expecting a lot of one-sided responses, but that's ok and expected.

I am an amateur chef, and wine aficionado.  My core background is in business and finance.  I have run two other small businesses as well as worked in corp America.  I am opening up a new restaurant/bistro/wine-bar about 60-seats plus a patio (during summer) and a room for private parties.  I will be hiring a chef and a few cooks.  I am thinking about finding a talented person from culinary school who is hungry for a job and giving them the chance to run my kitchen.  I know probably 99% of culinary students are probably not ready, but I keep thinking one might be.  I was very young went I started my first business and then as well as other times people have told me "your not ready to do XYZ" or "you need 10 years of experience first".  They were wrong and I am looking to give someone a chance.

First- am I crazy?  Could this possibly work?

Second- if it could work, what advice would you give me on how to make it happen?

Thanks.


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## foodpump

Good questions.

First off, one who graduates from a culinary school is a "Culinary school graduate", not a Chef.

Now, if the applicant had 4-5 years previous experience in a kitchen with a year or two of supervisory position _*before *_entering culinary school, I'd say it would be a good gamble to put him/her in charge of your kitchen. However if the applicant had "0" experience in a commercial kitchen and day dreamed while watching the "Food network" prior to culinary school , I'd say it would be a lousy gamble--and an expensive one.

Who am I to tell you how to spend your money?

The kitchen with it's infrastructure and equipment is going to cost a minimum of 50 grand, probably a lot me by the time you get salt and pepper shakers on the tables. At any given time you will have a minimum of 5 grand tied up in inventory--edible, _*perishable*_ inventory, which can either make you money if properly managed or loose you money if improperly managed. Hang on, I'm not done yet. One Chef plus 3 cooks plus a dishwasher = 160 hrs per week, at lets say, oooh average of 15 bucks per hour is, how much is that in labour costs? Hang on, hang on, what about waitstaff?. Lets say you have the same amount of waitstaff and labour costs, and the Chef can't handle service rushes and hides out in the john, or tells all the waitstaff to blank off and leave him alone and you have nothing to sell in the dining room, or even worse customers complaining and wanting refunds?

What I'm trying to say is that the Chef is an integral part of the entire operation--s/he is not a contractor or a 3rd party that you can toss out on a moments notice and not even notice they're gone.

Then again, who am I to tell you how to spend your money?


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## chefwanted

Thanks for your input.  Let me clarify, I am not looking to save money, I am looking to find someone on the up and up.  I have seen/met a lot of cooks/chefs who seem to have an attitude as they 'put their time in' but are now old, tired, and stubborn.  I want to find someone who is young (in spirit, not necessarily age or experience), positive, energetic, driven, and eager to take the reins--hence my original question.  I don't want to set them up for failure, but I am willing to take a chance on the right person.  In all my hiring for non-restaurant positions I usually look for someone who may be less experience or 'qualified' but is eager and therefore better to 'promote' them instead of someone who has been around the block and feels entitled.


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## foodpump

Yes, I understand all of that. I've tried to explain my point of view and I'll try it again.

Q: What are the two most important questions that 99.999% of _*currently operating *_Restaurant owners ask of a prospective Chef candidate?

A: 1) What was your food cost at your last place of employment?

2) What was your labour cost at your last place of employment?

No one says you have to hire a burned out Chef, just one you can trust to keep the kitchen running and not cost you money.


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## Iceman

*"CHEF"* is a _vocabulary word_.


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## kuan

Do not.  Most culinary school grads can't even cook, let alone handle purchasing and scheduling.


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## cheflayne

My concern would be that while you have experience as a business owner, you have none as a restaurant owner and so hiring a fresh out school person to head your kitchen would be a bit tricky because there would be a decided lack of practical experience across the management board.

You will have your hands full with OJT as a restaurant owner watching the front of the house and the office. Having an experienced hand to watch the back of the house would take some of the initial pressure off of you.

If you want someone young and hungry, I would think you would be better served by looking for a experienced sous chef that is ready to move up.

By the way, I have been around a few blocks, but I don't consider myself old, tired, stubborn and entitled. My point being that it comes down to individuals. Some new fresh graduates could possibly fill the bill, but so can some old hands. Attitude and outlook are number one in my book and not related to age whatsoever.

Don't limit yourself by closing off your mind to any segments of the population when looking to hire quality. You never know where you might find it.


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## kaiquekuisine

foodpump said:


> Good questions.
> 
> First off, one who graduates from a culinary school is a "Culinary school graduate", not a Chef.


Took the words right out of my mouth , saw this question and this was actually my first reaction....

Honestly i dont think i could trust a right out of culinary school grad with 0 exp. with a freaking chefs knife , let alone a whole restaurant and kitchen staff.

Now its like foodpump said , if the person had prior experience and went to school for advanced learning and to perfect him/herself then i would consider that a gamble , now to get a fresh out of school 20 year old boy/girl who has no culinary experience then well , its a wasted gamble.

I have had chefs in their 20´s 30´s and 40´s and know of chefs well past their 50´s and so far none of them are lousy , grouchy or burned out ill have you know.

Here in Brazil a newspaper article was published last year saying how most restaurant owners wont hire new culinary school grads because...

1) They think they are alot better then what they put out

2) They think their head chefs and are well Divas

3) Cant cook , or have no speed and or quality when cooking

My opinion.....

If you want someone energetic and your willing to gamble , then well go after a cook who has at least had a sous position , with some culinary experience in his belt , willing to work hard and put in the hours for a decent pay. No the sous doesnt have to have come from a road of fame and glory.

Also culinary school graduates from LCB arent much better then cooks who were personally trained by other chefs.

Also it wouldnt kill you to test these potential canidates....

Test them if you must , ask them to make a basic hollandaise , brunoise an onion , make a quick dish if possible , clean fish ....

Its like i said i wouldnt trust a new culinary school grad with my 8 inch chefs knife so i dont see the reason for you to trust them with your money....


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## raisedkaine

You can't learn how to run a business from a book. Being a Chef in a commercial kitchen is not a spectator sport! You've got to learn proper kitchen management skills from years of experience. I mean, you're opening a restaurant, not a supervisory school for new culinary school graduates! Even though I'm a current student, and I'd _love _to snag myself a sous chef or chef de partie position as soon as I graduate, I wouldn't even hire me! As foodpump said though, it's your money, and your restaurant, do as you please.


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## beastmasterflex

Its not totally out of the question, and I appreciate your wish to pay forward the opportunity you were given. I feel the same way as I had a mentor that gave me the chance when others would have called him a fool.

My current dinner chef is somewhat of a gamble he is very young and inexperienced, but he has the work ethic and passion that I need in a chef. I am also in a seasonal rural town, where if you want a chef you've gotta make one, the kids father is someone I know, my restaurant is established, and somewhat predictable.

I don't think there is a short supply of qualified applicants in Seattle, it seems that you don't really have anyone in mind, your restaurant is not opened or established which is very different, unpredictable.

Basically you will have to pick up this students slack until you can get them up to speed, if you are unable to pick up that slack yourself then the answer is no you should not do it.

Better answer, maybe, just hire a chef that likes to teach, he will then give opportunity on your behalf, i.e, dishwasher becomes prep cook becomes line cook becomes sous chef.


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## lee ewing

I agree with everyone on here, and everyone has a good angle or perspective on this. I've been in the food service industry all of my life because of my Dad being a restauranteur. So, Ive worked on the line, and been through the trenches. However, I just graduated from The Culinary Institute of America, and I think it made me even sharper as a Culinarian. 
It's really funny how these young cats think that when they do graduate culinary school, they will be an Executive Chef somewhere and/or become a celebrity Chef. It's funny when I ask them what they will do after graduating. If their answer is the above mentioned, I laugh and ask them how they even think that will happen. I tell them that they need to start off crawling before they can walk. I tell them not to be surprised if they work on the line for a while and then get into a Sous Chef position. I tell them they have to know the operation before they can lead the brigade.
The arrogant ones I've had conversation with, I tell them that they will never make it because arrogance in the kitchen by a young punk kid wont work. My philosophy is to hire the attitude, train the skill. If there is a fresh grad that has that hunger, then they will WANT to learn, and they will WANT to excel. You can tell if they have that, because they want that challenge, and they want the knowledge from their superiors. IMHO


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## chefwanted

A lot of great advice here, thanks all. I started another thread regarding what a chef wants when looking at a new position, feel free to comment on that.


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## viditaren

im a culinary student ...about to graduate done internship under chef alex sanchez ( the table) (name drop hahaha ) and also in a hotel ITC MARATHA MUMBAI .
and honestly i want to be part of a restaurant that serves carefully choosen dishes with local ingredients and provide a very unique flavor profile.
i am writing this since i see u sir as possible candidate who might be soon opening a property with such characteristics in mind and maybe i can be a part of it 
at any level that you deem fit . i am eager . i am raring to go . i learn, grow all the time.


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## chefbillyb

Hire proven talent. A successful restaurant business has a lot of moving parts, they need to move in unison. Sharp FOH + Sharp BOH = Success. Paying it forward is a nice, being successful is mandatory. There may not be any do overs, do it right the first time. ..............ChefBillyB


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## mdal2684

Where are you located and when you say American bistro what food are you serving? I have worked in two delis, a group home, a bar and grill, and currentlya higher end Italian restaurant. I am a culinary student looking for an externship for early 2015. I am a hard worker with a 4.0 gpa. I'm the first woman hired at my current place of business in over 2 years. I drive an hour and a half every day to go to school then work right afterwards. I will have 3 years cooking experience once my extership starts.I'm not necessarily looking for something big but I am looking for an American bistros or molecular gastronomy.


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## soesje

ok. 

its really great you are willing to give someone a chance, and YES there are a few out there who might be worth it.

BUT.

I would definitely put them to the  test: a real thourough interview, plus asking them to do basic things, a trial definitely.

even in my country its true when someone has graduated (we have different degrees here than USA has), wouldn't neccesarely be someone who can actually cook.

some I have met, cannot even make a mayo from scratch.

others, know all the famous names and can replicate dishes.

I was one of those students who got a chance last year and I feel forever thankful.

but since its your money and business, be sure what you are looking for and test them.


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## cheflayne

Soesje said:


> BUT.
> 
> I would definitely put them to the test: a real thourough interview, plus asking them to do basic things, a trial definitely.


Would your hiring practice be different if you were looking for an experienced chef?


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## soesje

cheflayne, well of course not, although I am not the one hiring people 

for an experienced chef I'd always want a thorough interview, and check his CV….his work experience etc.

after that, would have a second interview eventually if I had questions but when I thought  things were positive in general.


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## mikeswoods

I sure would like to hear from the original poster----

I think he is dreaming----as a business man why would he think that a completely green student would be a candidate for that responsibility?


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## petemccracken

Hiring a freshly graduated culinary student as a "chef" is closely parallel to hiring a freshly graduated MBA as a "C.E.O." and just as risky, IMHO.


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## soesje

mikeswoods, I think the answer here is MONEY….. in …. being cheap.

its cheaper to hire a freshly graduated than it is to hire an experienced chef.

and never would one like such a green person give such responsibility indeed.


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## mikeswoods

Money is the reason NOT to hire a greeny---

I see a flop ready to happen-----Go to the grand opening or you will miss your chance to eat there.


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## ed buchanan

Ask yourself this   would you let a 20 year old run a million dollar business?    They know almost noting about ordering and how much to order for x amount of people.  Cooking my friend is least of skills required. When I was younger AI had my daughter with me , she could prepare most items on menu but thats it.


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## madchef2013

Having graduated from culinary school I can tell you this: out of my class of 25 there are 2 (two) of us still working in restaurants. I am one of the two. Out of my class of 25 - three of us had prior restaurant experience. I had already been a sous chef by the time i went to culinary school, albeit it was only two years. When i graduated I didn't feel like I was ready to be the exec yet. I wanted another 3 to 5 years of experience as a sous. 

I honestly believe culinary schools did a huge dis-service to the industry when the experience requirement was dropped from the admissions criteria. Now grads with no experience walk out thinking they are ready to be a chef because they spent 6 weeks working in the school kitchen, and maybe another 6 weeks as an extern.

At the end of the day you might get lucky, hell you might win the lottery!


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## mdal2684

I agree with you mad chef. There's a lot of nievity in my class. Don't get me wrong I love my classmates but some of them don't have cooking jobs and if they do it's Perkins or chipotle. It's a start but I feel that in order to be successful you should start somewhere where you're going to get you butt kicked and feel pressure.


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## madchef2013

You know - at least you have the right attitude - that will take you far, well that and bad ass line skills. 

Keep your knives sharp, friend.


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## Iceman

OK. Now being _"Mr. Contrarian"_ that I am, I just gotta give an_(my)_ opinion after reading all of this. I'm a _CHEF_. I don't really care what a lot of others define as a _"chef"_, but I do know my definition. I'm a sorta _"culinary-school grad"_. I've worked in a whole bunch of places. I've owned a few myself too. I'll tell you right up front that I can't do any of that _business stuff_ at all worth spit. What I _CAN_ do, without any question of a doubt, are all the _culinary things_ necessary to put great food on plates. Along with that, the most important thing I ever did as an owner, was to _hire business people to do business stuff_. The only time those people were ever in the kitchen was when they parked in the back and had to walk through to get to the front.

For _ME_, I would have no problemmo hiring a kid fresh outta school to _COOK_ in my kitchen as my _CHEF_. If he or she is good, I'll know that right away. If they suck, I'll know that right quickly too. If it's a good school, the kid should be fine. I'm a highly experienced 51-yo chef. As good as I may be, I come with serious baggage. Please, show me an experienced chef that doesn't. The last thing I would ever want to do is hire myself.


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## soesje

Iceman, I applaud you for posting this.

Few would admit what you just have said…. And each has his ways to handle things….which is perfectly fine.

Whatever works,works  

Be proud of yourself.


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## dreamshards8

This thread might be a little outdated so I don't know if it is too late to give my two sense. I don't think you shun the idea of hiring graduates. I'm a little sick of hearing so much negativity about people who go to school, however I have only worked with people who did Baking & Pastry and they were really talented cooks. These people worked in kitchens before they went to school and wanted to work hard. I think having experience before school shows that you truly have a passion for this industry and want to strive to learn more. In general I would say hire people with experience and that have great references of a strong work ethic, or you generally feel will try their best and put a lot into their job even if they don't have experience. I have worked with some real a-holes while being a kitchen manager who had great skills but I would much rather take someone with a great attitude and determination over skills any day. The kind of people who aren't going to whine or roll their eyes at you when you tell them to was the dishes or scrub the floor drains. Those people are few and far between but they do exist. Also, finding someone to run the kitchen is a lot different then hiring regular cooks. People should at least have a few years kitchen experience before giving that shot. That is just my personal opinion.


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## foodpump

dreamshards8 said:


> This thread might be a little outdated so I don't know if it is too late to give my two sense. I don't think you shun the idea of hiring graduates. I'm a little sick of hearing so much negativity about people who go to school, however I have only worked with people who did Baking & Pastry and they were really talented cooks. These people worked in kitchens before they went to school and wanted to work hard. I think having experience before school shows that you truly have a passion for this industry and want to strive to learn more. In general I would say hire people with experience and that have great references of a strong work ethic, or you generally feel will try their best and put a lot into their job even if they don't have experience. I have worked with some real a-holes while being a kitchen manager who had great skills but I would much rather take someone with a great attitude and determination over skills any day. The kind of people who aren't going to whine or roll their eyes at you when you tell them to was the dishes or scrub the floor drains. Those people are few and far between but they do exist. Also, finding someone to run the kitchen is a lot different then hiring regular cooks. People should at least have a few years kitchen experience before giving that shot. That is just my personal opinion.


Yes... please read my first post, I was the first to respond to the original poster. I believe my content and yours are very similar. The only thing I think I should add is that I feel _*all *_culinary schools should only taken applicants who have at least 1 yr working experience in the kitchen.


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## etherial

There are exceptions. Some of us recent culinary school grads were previously employed distributing multi-million dollar estate settlements to clients and weren't happy. We also know a thing or two about balancing a budget, ordering supplies, and how to read a profit and loss statement, so please don't put all of us eggs in one basket.

Oh and yes, some of us CAN cook.


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## grande

How's thw job search going?


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## cheflayne

Hypothetical:

You hire a person as chef that is a recent culinary school grad, but they have prior business experience (although non-restaurant) and so can read a P&L, order supplies, and budget. They also are a good cook.

It is 5:00 on a Friday and your saute guy is a no show. You have reservations for 200+ and a party booked in the private room. Guests are streaming in the door, one you recognize as well known food critic. Another is a winery owner and joining him is the president of the tourism board.

Can your recent grad jump into saute and handle it?

Oh and by the way your fish purveyor was late, just got here, so the fish needs to filleted pronto. Lobsters need to be prepped. Clams and oysters need to be washed; but wait, your saute guy is a no show!

FWIW, I didn't let my imagination run away with me on this scenario, I have been around long enough to see many similar variations up close and personal.


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## kaiquekuisine

cheflayne said:


> Hypothetical:
> 
> You hire a person as chef that is a recent culinary school grad, but they have prior business experience (although non-restaurant) and so can read a P&L, order supplies, and budget. They also are a good cook.
> 
> It is 5:00 on a Friday and your saute guy is a no show. You have reservations for 200+ and a party booked in the private room. Guests are streaming in the door, one you recognize as well known food critic. Another is a winery owner and joining him is the president of the tourism board.
> 
> Can your recent grad jump into saute and handle it?
> 
> Oh and by the way your fish purveyor was late, just got here, so the fish needs to filleted pronto. Lobsters need to be prepped. Clams and oysters need to be washed; but wait, your saute guy is a no show!
> 
> FWIW, I didn't let my imagination run away with me on this scenario, I have been around long enough to see many similar variations up close and personal.


Good scenario... i even had a flashback.

I remember once about a year ago, it was me, my head chef and the cook that prepped the cold line.

Meat guy was not working that day. And the saute cook had quit 2 weeks prior and i needed to sub in, i thought it was no big deal, because i was working saute already and killing it (but oh boy how i suffered).

150 guests, plus another 35 made reservations literally for the opcoming hour.

We were low on supplies and one cook short (and cooking with one person less then what we were used to).

I don´t remember much of what happened that day, sorta blacked out, but i remember alot of food coming out, alot of smoke from the grilling in the kitchen and a lot of people swearing and screaming.

Oh and i remember me working saute, making rice, working the meat station, while my chef was expiditing, cooking as well, making pasta, and butchering while the salad cook helped making dishes and helped me on saute.

It didnt help that all 150 people came in all at the same time.... and the party of 35 came in soon after....

OH AND WE RAN OUT OF DESSERST, so the salad cook had to eventually leave me, and go make desserts to order....


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## chefedb

Chef Layne is 100% correct. Plus _I never have had a grad who could order or new quantities. Like order for a party of 250 all foods required.. They don't teach that.. Sorry they teach it at HKU=_

_Hard Knocks University_


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## chefbuba

I totally agree with Foodpump, chef's Ed & Layne. A recent culinary school graduate that is educated is just that, a recent culinary school graduate. I got a piece of paper in 1980, then worked on my masters for several years at HKU where I actually learned my craft.

I worked in a French Bistro while attending school, learned more there there from the European trained chef than school, then a couple of Italian places, then to where the learning really started.

1000 seat banquet house with a dining room that sat another 250.

Weekends you could do 500 from the front of house and have a number of banquets going at the same time, while all the prep for a 1000+ Sunday brunch was going on. Everything was made from scratch, soups, stocks, sauces, everything butchered in house.

Find yourself a job and leave your previous life out of the equation, working in an attorney's office and throwing dinner parties at home is not relevant.


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## Iceman

When I got my first _"Head Chef"_ Job I had to walk 6-miles in the snow uphill both ways every day for a 5:30 am breakfast of 300 lumberjacks, each with a food item allergy of one sort or another. We had no gas or electricity much of the time so I had to cut, split and dry the lumber for the stoves all by myself while my 62-yo prep-aide did what he could before the crowd got there. Many were the days when their payroll was held up so I had to cover their credit until the end of the next week. When breakfast was over we had to wash the dishes with water from melted snow because the pipes were frozen. ...


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## grande

Last place i worked had some wierd floor damage in front of the grill. I asked what it was from- "that's where they split the wood before the gas grill put in..."


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## etherial

I know this is late, but I have to chime in on this.  The average culinary school graduate knows about Jack Sh..t about cooking and seasoning food; let alone maintaining a budget and HR, however, there is always an exception to the rule.  If you combine life experience of cooking REAL gourmet food, fire time to feed 20 people in a designated time-slot, and you can get that food on the table, in the proper chafing dish, heated to the proper temps, and the food is delicious, then hire him!

It really bothers me when I read chef's comments regarding recent culinary school grads as having very limited skills; most don't; but that's not entirely true.  There are people like me who have worked in my personal kitchen, but also knows her stuff.  I'm not talking making your average family pot roast, or fried chicken, etc., but great tasting gourmet foods and sauces, complete with professional staging of a plate.  I take pics of all my finished products now to create my own personal portfolio on interviews.  I worked in a supervisory position in law firm for over 21 years, and can apply that same business management certification when the time comes for me to enact that skill.  I am presently working on gaining entry-level experience in the food industry, but I am not your average recent culinary school graduate.  I know my way around food regardless of what anyone says.

The person you should consider is experienced with spices and herbs and has a feel of what compliments each one.  The experienced cook can taste a raw herb and right away know what meat would be a perfect match with it; even what fruit or vegetable would take it over the top or what cooking technique would bring out the best flavors. 

I think you should interview him/her a few times just to get a handle on temperament, attitude, work ethic, and general kitchen safety/hygiene and last, but definitely not least, GET A BACKGROUND CHECK & REFERENCES.

Always know whose in your house and you'll never be sorry.


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## etherial

Iceman:  Really?  I sure hope you made a boat-load of money!


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## foodpump

I dunno, Etherial..

Owners are kinda funny, they have this overwhelming need to make money--you know, cover the payroll, rent, creditors, etc.

Kitchens can be very romantic, I guess, but I see the _commercial _kitchen in only two ways:

-The first is potential. The kitchen has the potential to earn some serious bucks. Matter of fact, most owners have already calculated the potential, included it in thier business plan/proposal, and are gambling that this potential will eventually earn them money.

-The second is liability. The kitchen has the potential to poison, maim, or outright kill customers. Employees have the potential to steal, cheat, or drag you into labour law disputes--wrongful dismisals, percieved human rights violations, and the like. Equipment and infrastructure have the potential to nickel and dime you ( Actually one thousand and three thousand) you to death, Municipal gov'ts can drive you insane with demands for upgrades, and don't even start to think about liquor law regulations.

You need time and experience to learn the dynamics of all I have listed above. No one was born with this knowledge, and no one got it with a 2 yr culinary school program

.

Most owners who are interviewing for someone to take the reigns of a kitchen will ask the one following question. And this question is as valid in N.America as it is in Europe, Afrika, Isreal, or Australia. It is as valid today as it was 100 years ago.

Ready for the question?

_*"what was your food cost at your last place of employment?" *_

Answer this question satisfactorly, and the odds are you will be a strong contender for the job.

Catch 22:

in order to answer question satisfactorily, you have to have managed a previous kitchen. Not a home kitchen, not waitressing 20-odd years ago, not your military career, but managing a commercial kitchen.

Owners are kind of funny, they don't like to gamble with thier money on someone who just walked in the door. If that someone has been working for them for 5-7 years and worked thier way up from salads to lead cook, and then slowly started to do some paperwork and ordering, then they might take a chance. But not for someone who just walked in the door.

Glad to have you back on the forums


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## grande

I STILL am curious how your job search is going, Etherial.


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## foodpump

Now Etherial, this just isn't like you....

Usually when you post a question or a statement and don't get the response you want, you are right back, same day, fighting, argueing, and fighting some more.

Let's treat the whole thing like a science experiment, O.K?

You say employers should recognize you because of your 40 years cooking experience*, and personality and leadership qualities that make you the right choice to lead a kitchen brigade and a kitchen.

Every one who has responded, and I don't use that word lightly--Everyone-- has said otherwise.  Some taking the time to patiently explain why, some giving personal experiences, but all disagree.

So, you are the subject of this experiment, and you will ultimately prove us wrong.

It's just going to take a little time, that's all.  But I'm sure you will tell us when you have found something that agrees with you.


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## cheftorres87

I'm a former culinary student, first, I feel the education is lacking compared to real restaurants. Even my friends that graduated I probably wouldn't hire as a full time chef, since they are still looking for work and have little to no experience.

A lot of professional executive chefs I see are more busy crunching numbers than they are cooking. Lots of paperwork handling food cost, inventory, labor cost etc.

A quick note on "Experience" I don't care if someone has 5,10,15 years "experience" as many people do. There's a reason I at 1 year experience had the key to the restaurant after 3 weeks and the head chef who was quickly replaced did not. It's about passion, talent, and knowledge, 15 years as a chef does not a good chef make if he learned the wrong ways to everything, I had another chef who studied under David Burke, with 10 years experience he was quickly canned as he had an issue with sleeping pills, he was found constantly passed out during service, leaving inventory to the line cooks. Experience doesn't count for crap. KNOWLEDGE, TALENT, PASSION.

Also the post about someone who can get good food cost is essential too, it's also important that your line cooks understand portion control.


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## grande

Ah, kitchen work. "You can check out any time you want, but you can never leave." Meaning no one else is desperate enough to keep hiring these people, so they keep coming back for more...


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## chefedb

Attention all owners 

''  Would you hand a million dollar investment over to a person just out of culinary school'' ? I sure would not.


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## andrew curley

It would be an extremely bad more. There is no other way to describe it. I'd put my name forward (20s) studied professional cookery on the job at a bistro for a year, after working 68 hour week in a bakery for 3 years, and now that my exec gave me a chance employing me on the line under a very talented head chef, first time working in a professional kitchen, I can tell you it's a struggle just being on larder. I can't fathom the amount of responsibility, organization and other niches it would take to be in such a position of power with ZERO EXPERIENCE; plus, the candidate would have to garner their own ways of running things, but how can that happen when they don't know how to run things in the first place? And the place I'm working in has 7 restaurants (1 michelin and another 2 rosettes)... I have passion, commitment, drive, initiative and willingness to learn and all the rest of it, but I'm telling you right now, there is no way, I'm talking a snowballs chance in hell, a graduate can run a kitchen. None.


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## cheftorres87

So I went to school in 2010, I've been doing sushi for 1 and 1/2 years now.

The food cost of our restaurant is at 40% right now, and the corporate chef (15 years experience) shot down my ideas of saving salmon skin for salad, saving the end of cucumbers for sunomono, and rather than scrape out the fatty tuna from the collar of the big eye to put in spicy tuna, to use it as nigiri (like the famous chef Yasuda does on bluefin) and sell it as a flight/special (Lean, Mid, Belly, Collar), pricing the yellowtail differently from the yellowtail belly as they are different in taste and texture. I could go on and on for days.

All ideas would have saved on food cost. All ideas have been proven to work in restaurants I worked at before.

But another example, I had another chef at the old restaurant, he got food cost way down, and the quality of food slowly showed, and customers stopped coming.

It's a really tough business, I've met chefs who worked under prestigious names like David Burke only to find they are terrible and running the restaurant into the ground, I've also seen consulting chefs who didn't care about food cost and used the restaurant as a playground.

A friend once told me, the restaurant industry is considered a low industry, filled with the lowest of people, don't be one of those, always aspire to elevate yourself and the restaurant you work at.

It's really hard to find who's who, but you'll see it in their passion and hours put in.


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## mckallidon

foodpump said:


> Good questions.
> 
> First off, one who graduates from a culinary school is a "Culinary school graduate", not a Chef.
> 
> Now, if the applicant had 4-5 years previous experience in a kitchen with a year or two of supervisory position _*before *_entering culinary school, I'd say it would be a good gamble to put him/her in charge of your kitchen. However if the applicant had "0" experience in a commercial kitchen and day dreamed while watching the "Food network" prior to culinary school , I'd say it would be a lousy gamble--and an expensive one.
> 
> Who am I to tell you how to spend your money?
> 
> The kitchen with it's infrastructure and equipment is going to cost a minimum of 50 grand, probably a lot me by the time you get salt and pepper shakers on the tables. At any given time you will have a minimum of 5 grand tied up in inventory--edible, _*perishable*_ inventory, which can either make you money if properly managed or loose you money if improperly managed. Hang on, I'm not done yet. One Chef plus 3 cooks plus a dishwasher = 160 hrs per week, at lets say, oooh average of 15 bucks per hour is, how much is that in labour costs? Hang on, hang on, what about waitstaff?. Lets say you have the same amount of waitstaff and labour costs, and the Chef can't handle service rushes and hides out in the john, or tells all the waitstaff to blank off and leave him alone and you have nothing to sell in the dining room, or even worse customers complaining and wanting refunds?
> 
> What I'm trying to say is that the Chef is an integral part of the entire operation--s/he is not a contractor or a 3rd party that you can toss out on a moments notice and not even notice they're gone.
> 
> Then again, who am I to tell you how to spend your money?


Foodpump is on the money. I worked at a place under a rookie chef. I would have done a better job with no culinary school only because I would have stopped people from stealing and been their boos, not their friend. They would have showed up on time or been fired, and known exactly what their job was or was not. Well, I wouldn't have even hired those idiots in the first place. Besides the lack of practical experiences, leadership requires that the basics are covered and nothing is left to guesswork. Why hire someone for a leadership position when they haven't even been properly lead?

You'll basically pay that person to most likely figure out how to screw a place up as they are on their way to possibly learn how not to in the future. The fact they would take that job is testament to the fact they probably never would learn how because they do not know how to learn it. Giving someone that role when they haven't really earned it can go to their head and be a real management problem. How will this person interact with veteran line cooks that may cook them under the table while they're trying to make guesswork of stuff they know. It's like the senior nurse vs 1st year resident MD conundrum. They're in charge, but should they be?

You need someone with experience. Especially if specific to what you are doing. The chef needs to be the go to guy. Quick question. Quick answer. He knows your products, how to buy them, who to buy them from, why, how to store, use, prepare, merchandise and not waste them. How read the tea leaves and anticipate the next move. How to see mistakes and problems and steer the boat.

That is not a rookie. He won't be able to manage all the responsibilities at once that he hasn't taken on one by one before. And, he'll have to deal with cooks lol. Not to be a jerk, but I'm not a terrible human being and I take advantage of poor management just on principle. He'll get walked all over and have too many fires to put out he didn't see coming. A few bad nights with a fresh face will bone you hard.

You'd be better off with someone with 15 years experience and no degree, than just the degree. What you want is the degree, the experience, and look at his past. How many joints when down under his watch? What was he doing and what was happening? Was it really location? People skills. He may know food and numbers, but can he really hold down the fort without offending people, neglecting staff that need development? Does he know what you need and what he needs from the staff and how to make these things happen?


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## sickmick

All of these threads are very exciting!  In my experience, all of my cooks fresh out of culinary school know what the equipment in the kitchen is called and know how to slice and dice very slowly.  I say give them all a chance and treat them as new hires on a trial basis.  There are certainly culinary school graduates that have blown my regular staff away!  They are not a dime per dozen.  Some of these young (or not so young) people come in to the industry with unmeasured passion.  I never had the opportunity to attend culinary school though I had a a scholarship to do so.  Sometimes things don't work out,  Although I  work as an exec chef and am so gracious to have gone through the old school of hard knocks. I've had the opportunity to cook and become a chef while starting as a bus boy in 1989 .  Culinary students should still have that experience even after their graduating.  In my kitchen, a few graduates hadn't made the cut.  Some aren't ready for a catering kitchen like mine but are more suited in chain restaurants where they may learn structure that is presented in culinary schools . A couple of culinary school graduates have learned enough to move on successfully and I certainly miss them.  I read an early post that states "Chef" is a vocabulary word.   Chef means manager.  Culinary graduates are not yet mangers.  My  jacket says "Chef de Cusine". I mange the food.  I also manage the menu, the staff and blah, blah, blah. Managing the crew is so important.  My job is to teach well.  My sous chefs work diligent to make sure that everything is right on!  These culinary graduates are working to achieve this status for knowledge!  So after straying from the first post in this thread, I say do your research and hire accordingly.  Many may interview well, but put them to the test before making a decision.  I have great faith in my interviews but always give them a trial run. It's not only to find out if they fit my needs in my kitchen.  It's also to determine where they may fit in a different kitchen.  I think that anyone who decides that they want to prepare food for the masses is a special kind of person before anything else. I'm pretty well rounded in all culinary departments but every time one of these students show up, they show me something new.  I love it!   25 years of cooking is NOT enough for me.  I always look forward to what my culinary school interns bring to  me and my guests.  At the end of the day I hope that everyone learns something new because that crostini app gets pretty stale after 2 passes!   Viva the culinary grad!


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## laurenlulu

In my experience the ego is way out of proportion to their skill set. And very slow. I do a skills test when interviewing and I am surprisingly surprised each time I have to correct how they small and medium dice, seems so basic yet they don't know. For a carrot most cut long across the median then start slicing into half moons


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## raibeaux

If you want to see a really tough example of a field that requires prior experience just to get into school, check out a few veterinary colleges' requirements.

WOW!

One of the main ones, other than sky-high grades in science, is demonstrating a practically life-long hands-on interest in animals.


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