# is it possible to open a bake shop in a small space? :P



## mulak (Jan 2, 2006)

Hey,

I was wondering if it doable to open a bake shop in a 12' by 14' space? offer 1-3 different desserts depending on what kinds.

It 800 bucks a month for lease, no tmi but I have to pay 25% of the utilities with the residential tenant. It a work/live building and the residential tenant just want to live. I asked the agent of what is the current utilities and told me it 400 bucks. So I know I have to pay at least 100 bucks so matter what. If I double or triple the cost once I start my business then I could pay like 1000-1100 bucks month


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

I presume it is currently empty, like nothing it it?

Depending on where you are located and what you plan to cook with, you'll probably start with a hood ventilation system and a fire suppression system, that will start around $8000-$10000 and could go as high as $20000-$30000 for starters.

Next, you'll need triple sink, grease trap, hand washing sink, and the associated plumbing, including floor sink(s) for the air gap requirements for commercial kitchens, maybe $5000 up to,oh $8000.

Next, refrigerator(s), ovens, cooktop(s), say $5000.

Work tables, small wares, etc., maybe another $5000

Oh, forgot, it DOES have an impervious, seamless floor right? And hot and cold running water? And 200 amp electrical service? You'll need a gas line if you're going with any gas fired cooking equipment.

Oh, I'm guessing your electrical bill will be closer to $400 for your space alone.

Sure, you can do it if you have $25k up to maybe $50k for essentials to get started.


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## chefbuba (Feb 17, 2010)

The size of a bedroom????...Where are you going to put a 3 compartment sink, hand sink, mop sink, oven, refrigerator, freezer, work table, storage for dry goods, bathroom and what ever else is required?


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## mulak (Jan 2, 2006)

Yeah it a good location... it empty, I'm going to check it out this weekend 

I don't want to deal with gas, I want to do electric. I'm baking desserts and I rather have an oven that operate with electric because the heat easily more even comparing to gas.
 

right off the bat for equipments - 1 blodgett oven, 1 small fridge, 1 small freezer, sink, a couple tables, a mixer, a small mixer (kitchenaid), a shelving unit to store ingredients, a couple baking racks, and a electric burner

I'm planning on selling cupcakes, shortbread cookies and a dessert of the day... I want to sell desserts that require no fridge display so it won't take up the space since I only got 12 by 14 feet space

I was planning on opening a desserts shop in the future, but the job i have now making under 20k, it taking a while to save up that might be 2-3 years to save up. So I thought I would do a very small bake shop and make 30k instead, then that is a better situation for me because I can make a little more money, bring awareness to my business and create customer base once I moved to a bigger space and do full desserts menu that I would like to do.

I have 12K cash, 3K credit card and I can get a loan to cover equipment and construction


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

It's do-able, I've known guys working on small ships who've worked in smaller places.

Does  the place have the neccesary infrastructure?

You will need at least 100 amps  of juice coming in

Water lines, drain lines, as others have said, you will need a grease trap

Bathroom a max of 50 ft away from the work space

It will be hot in that closet, every time you open the convection oven, you'll get a blast of hot air, and the fridges don't make things cold, they remove heat--and pump it right back into the room.

Do-able but very uncomfortable, expensive, and cramped.

But don't give up, you're crunching the right numbers, and thinking the right things, you just have to find the right place, and this one isn't it.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

First of all you will not survive selling one to three deserts. You limit your customer traffic. Second NO you need more square footage then what you say there is   168 sq. feet.   a convection oven is at least 12 sq. a sink at least 15  table at least 15  a bathroom for yourself 15 thats 62 right there with no place to stand or walk. That allows you approx 100 left for customers  display case back tables etc.not even counting where mixer goes or refrig & freezer space or stove. No Again


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## roman (Dec 12, 2008)

It might be possible, but just barely. When we started, we did a pie shop in 276 sq. feet (roughly 30' x 9'). We had:- bathroom- triple sink - hand sink- electric stove - Bakers Pride convection oven - big monster and you need space in front of it to get the trays in and out safely.- 9 feet of counter + cupboards above / below for storage- 2 fridges- 1 freezer - work table- bakers rack- shelving unit- retail counter w/ Cash Register- retail area (could fit 3 people, just barely, more then that and they were lined up out the door)If you stay all electric, then depending on local codes, you may not need a commercial hood (we didn't, ymmv). But then you're going to need 200 amp electrical service - the bakers pride we had was 50 all on it's own - add the stove, fridge, freezer and you're over 100 easy. Note that you shouldn't run a panel at capacity - the electrical inspectors get upset, so figure on getting 80 amps out of a 100.As mentioned earlier - you're also going to have to cool the place. It's a lot of equipment in a very small space - figure another 20-30 amps for that. We had 3 people working at once, without a huge amount of tripping over each other. Having to add a fourth caused us to start looking for a new location.Don't forget to add insurance to your costs - it will probably run you around $100 / month.Cheers,Roman


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## mulak (Jan 2, 2006)

foodpump... based on my common sense, it highly possible that the space doesn't have the proper infrastructure because it a work/living building, so it probably has typical electric structure like the residential space has. Also other businesses in that same building are a lawyer office, a hair salon and another business I can't remember but no food related business.

high chance that I have to do plumbing work, redo electric work for oven, fridge, freezer etc

There is AC but i don't know how well it can hold up against the oven's heat

I'm glad you think that I'm doing the right things and the lease rate is awesome though! ... $12.80/sqft, I don't think I will ever find that price  lol I'm bummed.. the usual rate around where I live is like $18-24/sqft

I do agree that it will get cramped... If I had decent experiences in making like macarons which doesn't require a lot of equipments, then I would probably jump on that space since I only need a oven, a table, fridge, no freezer, a baking rack or two and sink and put against the back corner creating like a L shape production kitchen

chefedb... I work a cupcake shop that sell only 6 flavours a day and two of them stays the same every day and the rest are random. On a slow day, we knock out 650 minis and 225 regulars and on the weekend is at least 1000 minis and 500 regulars up easily ... I'm baffled on how this cupcake shop make decent money and the owner opened another location last year... I don't even like their cupcakes, no decent flavours in them but it better than grocery store cupcakes.

I could do vanilla, chocolate, red velvet cupcakes and do multiple buttercreams that provide more options than that cupcake shop and addition to selling different flavours shortbread cookies because they have a good shelf life and I can have pre-cut cookies in the fridge ready to go at anytime... My mom's colleagues used to go to the cupcake shop and now they buy cupcakes from me which I have a side business at home selling desserts and they prefer my products over them 

The size information about the space show 750sqft and floor area 12'x14' ... I agree it is a very tight space

Roman ... after reading your reply, my space got like 60% of your space, and let estimate that I have same amount of equipments as you... which is even tighter to move around comparing to your space ... seem like this space may not be a do-able space to do my business afterall

Bummer, back to square one ... I'm getting a bit tired of this job at the cupcake shop.. cupcakes, cupcakes and oh ya more cupcakes! ... I have been looking around for another job but many don't want to hire me because I'm hearing impaired so employers are scared of communication barriers I guess. This is one of the main reasons why that I want to open my own dessert shop because I won't get far in life working for someone and pretty much see that owning a business is the only option to make decent money when I get older, right now I'm 25 years old.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Maybe its a front for something else?


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## mulak (Jan 2, 2006)

chefedb said:


> Maybe its a front for something else?


What do you mean a front for something else? Do you mean a different business to build capital for my end game of opening a dessert shop in the future?


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

No maybe money laundering or something illegal(Like forget-about -it)


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Well, where do you live?  If you lived in Hannibal MO then yes.  You can do it.  I once walked into a restaurant there which was nothing more than a standard household kitchen.  They held their "gumbo" in a crock pot.


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## mulak (Jan 2, 2006)

I live in Oakville, Ontario...


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

I doubt you will be able to get away without a triple sink. You're in a big city.  Half the battle is searching for the right space.


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## foodnfoto (Jan 1, 2001)

It just doesn't make business sense to open up a small shop with absolutely no room to grow. You DO want your business to grow, right?

If you barely have enough room (and I seriously question whether you do at 12'x14') to manage your opening plans how can you expand your offerings if you lock yourself into such a lease?

You may think you have a great idea to open with, but in reality, you need to leave yourself wiggle room to adjust to unanticipated business demands as you move forward.

BTW, where are you going to put your desk to manage paperwork? Don't underestimate that need-big mistake.

Dude, keep looking


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## mulak (Jan 2, 2006)

I agree kuan

I do want to expand for sure and I do agree with what you are saying foodnfoto

Today, I got a graphic designer right now designing my logo and see what he come up with and I will show them to you and see if you guys like them or not. Probably will get them before the weekend


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## roman (Dec 12, 2008)

There is a lot to be said about starting in a small space - if done right, the initial capital outlay is minimal - we were up and running with an investment of less then $5K - mind you, the space already had a kitchen and we only had to add an oven and some additional fridges / freezers. Overhead was also minimal - rent was only $500 / month. It was a great way to prove that a concept was viable with minimal risk. We were actually the 4th outfit in the space - 2 successful, 2 not so much. I don't think anyone stayed in the spot for more then 3 years. We outgrew it fairly quickly and ended up moving to a space 3 blocks away that was five times the size. There is no way we could have made a go of it in the larger space without having learned from our mistakes in the smaller one.


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## lvngwell (Nov 4, 2010)

Ok you said 12 by 14 which is 168 square feet = but then you say 750 sq feet.  Which is it??  My shop is a little under 600 sq feet and I have everything I need. I have a three section sink - the smallest they make - it is about 4 by 2 feet.  I have a tiny hand sink and an extra mop sink to presoak larger pans. all three sinks fit into a space about 8 ft wide.  I have the largest home oven they make - it has 4 racks, is convection and gas.

I have lots of shelf space on the walls that make up for no dry goods area.  Half the space is kitchen and half is customer and display area.  Don't listen to the people saying you need 50k.  I started my shop with 15k.  You don't need big commercial everything.  Small inexpensive residential will do.  If the space was used for a kitchen before it most likely passed inspection before so it has everything you need in floors and ceiling tiles and wall surfaces. 

I put 1k into remodeling (we did all the work ourselves including removing a few walls) and it looks wonderful!

Do it to a scale that you are comfortable with and give it a try.


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