# kosher cooking.....



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Just ran into an orthodox, kosher abidding student today....seems she sees someone in my hair salon. It's been 6 years since I'd seen her. Her daughter is turning 16 and "student" wants me to cook for it....kosher chinese, gotta prep in her house.....30 guests......

The conversation goes something like this.....I could cook for it,but don't want to...I want to keep the costs down so can do some of the prep and work the party if you'll cook the food. HUH? 

Without running and screaming the other direction.....what makes sense. Charging by the hour? Any ideas? Prep has to be in her home.


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## rsteve (May 3, 2007)

Meat, Dairy, or neither?
Beef for kosher Chinese can be a problem, because the only real tender cut for a stir fry that is kosher is rib eye. I also understand the largest American processor of kosher beef has been shut down by the Feds, for employing illegal aliens.

I've used a surimi product that has a kosher seal, but depending on how orthodox your client may be, the seal on that product may not be approved.

If you like this person, i.e. she's a friend, charge by the event. Do the shopping with her, so everything purchased has her approval.

Or run and scream.


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Shroom Girl 
I would go a flat rate as chinese food after she preps is quick.

Young Chow Fried Rice(Vege)
Lo Mein
Swt Sour Chicken or Sesame or General Chou
Steamed Salmon with Bok Choy and sno peas
Vege egg rolls 

ll of the above can be prepared according to dietary law(no Meat cause as steve said its hard to find and extremely expensive now:bounce:


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

I've not really thought out the menu yet, just deciding how to interact with this client. Not a friend, but a customer if it's mutually agreeable.

Just ticks me off when people start out wanting to know a price then before they get any information trying to get the unyet specified price down....it's almost as if your time/expertise is of questionable value.....almost a haggling at the market scenerio. How it's approached makes such a huge difference.

A friend once said, "the definition of a good deal is if it is good for all (both) parties." 

OK kosher knowledgable chefs....
If we make krab rangoon and use surinami and fake cream cheese is it a viable option to then include meat?

I can see vietnamese springrolls, krab rangoon, Wolfgang Puck's chicken salad like take off in chinese go containers with chopsticks, possibly potstickers again with chicken or just veg, since there is already frying oil out some sweet fruit/parve chocolate eggrolls, fried tofu with peanut sauce......

I'm not afraid to pull from different Asian countries to come up with a menu gearred toward a group of 16 year olds.

Substantial enough for dinner with fresh and loads of fried components. 

I'd pick up vegetables, kosher frozen chicken breasts, fruit, chocolate, nuts ask about the surinami/cream cheese shtuff, wrappers, tofu.....

What about condiments? sesame oil, hoisin, soy sauce, cock sauce, vinager, etc.....seems like in some cases the rabbi or whomever had the final say would ok various things if they were not marked.......thoughts?


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

[

What about condiments? sesame oil, hoisin, soy sauce, cock sauce, vinager, etc.....seems like in some cases the rabbi or whomever had the final say would ok various things if they were not marked.......thoughts?[/quote]
quote=shroomgirl;254122]I've not really thought out the menu yet, just deciding how to interact with this client. Not a friend, but a customer if it's mutually agreeable.

A friend once said, "the definition of a good deal is if it is good for all (both) parties."

OK kosher knowledgable chefs....
If we make krab rangoon and use surinami and fake cream cheese is it a viable option to then include meat?

I can see vietnamese springrolls, krab rangoon, Wolfgang Puck's chicken salad like take off in chinese go containers with chopsticks, possibly potstickers again with chicken or just veg, since there is already frying oil out some sweet fruit/parve chocolate eggrolls, fried tofu with peanut sauce......

OK I am not about to tell you how to negociate with this person, with all your experience you know how. Now on to Rangoon If the fake stuff is Parve which they do make its fine otherwise use flaked halibut which for years kosher caterers pawned off as mock krab (notice the K). Kikomin products are certified kosher as are many others, just try and steer away from meat if possible, most eggroll and wonton skins are Parve all veges are kosher. Sesamee oil is marked k. In fact most items in markets today are marked one way or other. Her Rabbi or any rabbi will not certify anything as kosher unless it is marked or he knows the source. In essence you are dealing with a union, one rabbi makes sure there is another one working in the place where the product comes from this keeps them all working(great gimmick) The fake creamcheese cant contain (whey) or any other milk derivitive(lactic acid) and it will say so on the label. If you want any non k dish made k feel free to ask I have all conversions in my pc. Or I can call a rabbi friend and find out. ED Flaked Halibut put cheap frozen halibut in oven roast till well done ,let cool bone out take off skin then flake it, looks like and taste pretty close


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## frii (May 25, 2006)

Hi - I would suggest that you charge her by the hour and also give her the shopping list to purchase the stuff. I am also orthodox and she will know exactly which items and brands of items are permissible to use. As far as your menu, I am 99% positive that she wants a meat menu. Click on Shang Chai - Brooklyn, 11234 - Restaurant in Brooklyn
and you will find a menu from a popular glatt-kosher menu in New York. This is probably the stuff she is expecting. We have no problems using chicken, veal, duck, and certain cuts of beef. If you tell her let's say that you want to make pepper steak, her butcher will know what to give her and how to cut the meat.
We do not mix fish and meat together in the same dish and definitely no dairy in anything. You may use a fish product for an appetizer if you wish, but do not serve meat & fish in the same course. We may not cook fish & meat together or serve fish & meat on the same plate . Be aware that worchester sauce has fish in it.
All vegetables are permissible. Good luck. If you need any help or have any questions please e-mail me.
Fraidy


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Julie,

I would charge by the event. No need to tell you how often "we'll help out with the...." translates as "how'd we get into this mess!"

It's probably long out of print, but there actually was a cookbook published called "The Chinese-Kosher Cookbook." All of the recipes (about 60 of them) were certified as kosher.

If you can't find a copy, PM me your address and I'll send my copy to you.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

charge by the event with spelled out in detail job descriptions.....oh boy...

I've not used the fake parve cream cheese, but if the client is used to it then should be ok for rangoon.

seems like we got a OK to use rice paper wrappers once that were not marked, it's been so long that I've forgotten.

Thanks guys, I can wade through most of the menu development and am aware of most of the rules....there are just a few questionable practices/ingrediants.

I appreciate your help! thank you


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## rsteve (May 3, 2007)

I've been instructed numerous times that when a non-dairy substitute product is used accompanying meat, the product must be clearly identified at the point of service. The product package must be clearly displayed:















The ultra Orthodox will not permit even the look of a meat and milk mixture, whether or not you display the packaging and kosher seals. These are decisions that your client must discuss with her rabbi.


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## rsteve (May 3, 2007)

Another thought.

These are 16 year old kids.

Keep it really simple...egg rolls with a variety of fillings.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

or even let them make their own.....


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Julie Try this 
In a mixer put imitation cream cheese, some Ice cold non dairy creamer , about 4 T kosher oleo margarine, Garlic. Thyme. dill, oregano. A Drop worsteshire and Tabbassco. Whip the heck out of it. chill. Now you have made Kosher Bourson cheese. You can also do it Non Kosher with regular ingredients. We use it for many things;


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## frii (May 25, 2006)

I don't know if the client is expecting such a fancy menu.
Sixteen year olds don't need anything complicated. Skip the fake cream cheese appetizers since the kids won't appreciate it. I have 15 & 17 year old daughters - chinese is general tso chicken, sweet & pungent chicken, broccoli & beef in garlic sauce, eggrolls, fried rice, white rice, fried wontons, you can do a pu pu platter with a flame in the center. Also take wonton skins and cut them, deep fry & serve with duck sauce. Dim sum & lettuce salad. 
If you need help with kosher ingredients, markings - let me know


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## frii (May 25, 2006)

I forgot - Lo mein will go over well. You could do sesame chicken instead of general tso


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Thanks Ed and Frii..... Frii, you are new to cheftalk....welcome, we would love to read more about how you adapt ethnic foods to Kosher laws.

*Most that have been active at Cheftalk know that I've cooked private kosher classes with 3 sets of pots and pans in an orthodox Jewish man's home.  Weekly for 3 years....but that was 5ish years ago and I've not catered nor taught kosher in the enterum, except one (2 hour)....Marv was pretty much vegetarian with very low fat tendencies. We didn't cook alot of Asian dishes.

Other Kosher Classes were at least 7 years ago.....memory fades on what products are decent...fake cheese is not something I use often, LIKE NEVER for personal consumption.

With 30 kids at a party, I'm less apt to make much that will go soggy or goodness forbid have veg sit in a sauce over heat for any length of time.

THUS, this menu made sense.

I can see vietnamese springrolls, krab rangoon, Wolfgang Puck's chicken salad like take off in chinese go containers with chopsticks, possibly potstickers again with chicken or just veg, since there is already frying oil out some sweet fruit/parve chocolate eggrolls, fried tofu with peanut sauce......


springrolls are fresh not fried, full of veg and can be pre made that AM
Chicken Salad is Cold....flavorful and full of fun veg, very cute presentation
Rangoon, tofu are apps that take very little fry time and the rangoon can stay in a warm oven for a while without getting soggy. I see them for apps.
Or intermitantly made throughout the party time


Bet she'll have a cake, so the fruit/chocolate eggrolls are just fun laginape (sp).

So, not typical Americanized Chinese but mostly light fresh and fairly easy to execute menu. since the hostess appears to want to "save money by being staff".....gotta love that. My head is shaking as I'm typing.....


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## rsteve (May 3, 2007)

I'd be very apprehensive with Vietnamese spring rolls and teenagers. Many, if not most or all the kids, will wonder why they're "raw." 
And try to find kosher spring roll wrappers! You'll have to scratch make them from rice flour and tapioca flour. I don't believe they exist as kosher and dairy-free.

Frieda's Egg Roll wrappers are plentiful and available, and kosher, but they are dairy.


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## pgr555 (Aug 3, 2007)

Shroom - I am sorry i have not been on the forum for a LONG time - Has your event passed already? How did it go, if it did?

I am primarily a kosher caterer & would be glad to help with adaptation if needed. One thing I noted in the posts was the idea of cream cheese substitute - if you use this, you must be sure that it not only has a kosher marking, but also says PARVE - meaning NO animal products at all. Some "non-dairy" subs still have cassein or other products that contain elements made from some animal product - milk or meat based - that prohibits their use in certain circumstances - let me know if I can help.
pgr


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

thank you, good to hear from you again.....what type of menu would you serve teenagers?


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