# At what point is a person a 'Chef"?



## peachcreek (Sep 21, 2001)

Okay, so whats in a name. When is a Chef a Chef?

Is it with enough time working in foodservice capacities?

Is it receiving a paper from an institute or school?

Is it when customers decide what food a person makes rises to a certain level?

Is it when other chefs finally decide you are one?

Is it something where you found the hat, printed the business card and become one?

Is it just showing up?

I do not call myself a chef. Why? Because I do not know at what point I would have become one. And then for me to decide to take the title then it opens me up to having to defend that title.

Then there is the issue of if I feel I want to be affiliated with that group. The only thing I share in common is inhabiting a space in a kitchen. After reading how much competition and vitriol is leveled towards who knows what and who doesn't and how good/bad they are?

My head is spinning.

So, what do you call yourself and why???

Much love,

Peachcreek

Highly Tenured Kitchen Person


----------



## laurenlulu (Sep 9, 2012)

To me a Chef (meaning Chief) is one who does ordering of food/Chem/dishware, scheduling, adheres to food costs and other budgetary items, the one whom everyone goes to with questions or concerns because that person is responsible for the success/failure of the kitchen. This person sets the standards for the kitchen and may or may not cook. A Sous Chef (meaning under Chef) is the second in command. Everyone else is a cook.

I am an Executive Chef because I do all of those things I listed and more. I am also a Dining Room Manager of sorts.


----------



## burnell shively (Nov 21, 2016)

Hello all, this is my first post! (rounds of applause/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif)

It is very helpful to have such a forum in which to discuss such things, and this very question has been in my mind too as I prepare to set up my new business here in France as Private / Personal Chef. So thank you both for addressing it!

Self-taught, I have a fair amount of experience cooking, yet worried about calling myself a Chef. I really appreciate the description above and shall take that as the word!


----------



## peachcreek (Sep 21, 2001)

So, okay. You are a Chef because you get the title with the job?

This isn't about duties- its about the label and how one gets it.

So, ok. The manager of the local snack shack does the same thing you mentioned- they manage the financial metrics, ordering, staffing and they sell food. They even help cook.

That means they are a Chef?


----------



## laurenlulu (Sep 9, 2012)

If you are a Highly Tenured Kitchen Person than you understand the difference and are being antagonistic.


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

You really want to know?

The answer is not romantic.

You are officially a chef when....

Your job hangs on your food cost and your labour cost.

Look, a restaurant is a business, and a business needs to make money. If you are in charge of a kitchen and you are loosing money, the business wont survive.

If you are not financially responsible for the kitchen, then you are a cook. Nothing at all wrong with that, we all love to cook.

Hope this helps


----------



## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

When your peers call you chef.


----------



## Guest (Nov 22, 2016)

Good question. I own and run my own food cart and manage all of it (ordering, recipe development, managing the few people who work for me, books, taxes, etc). People call me a chef as they say my food is amazing and from the definitions above it would be fitting but I honestly feel really weird calling myself a chef. I left the tech industry to do this and while I'm successful, I don't feel I've earned the title as I've not had to work my way into the role. My tech industry income gave me the financial freedom to go run my own business and follow my passion and it feels disrespectful to folks who've had to work their asses off for years if not decades to run/manage their own restaurants for me to just use the title nonchalantly.


----------



## theelectricchef (May 18, 2016)

A Chef is one who has the the highest respect in the kitchen because he or she has mastered every position. A chef is one who steps in where needed, challenged with the responsibility of the monthly P&L's, the safety and well being of the staff and overall quality of the product served. With that said, a chef is a leader, not by default, but by choice.


----------



## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

We have had many threads on this same topic over the years.  One things for certain is, there are many opinions.  Some base their answers on some romantic notion of what a chef should be, what "ideals" a chef should embody.  Others take a more practical approach, basing their reasoning strictly on very tangible, quantifiable traits and job descriptions.  Neither approach is wrong, nor is it right, but I, personally think it is a mix of the 2.  Is it enough to be the leader of the kitchen?  The one who does the ordering, the scheduling, the hiring and firing?  No, I know kitchen managers that do that (not to disparage kitchen managers because I've known some great kitchen managers that would put many "chefs" to shame).  Is it that person with lots of knowledge, and passion, who lives food every day?  Not necessarily.  I've known many of those people that I wouldn't follow for a minute.  And it is most certainly not a title that one bestows upon one's self, at least legitimately.  To me, to truly be a Chef, the title needs to come from those under you, said with pride that you are their leader and mentor.  When that happens, then all the other stuff, that is required to be a chef, have usually fallen into place.

I know that that is kind of an esoteric, BS answer, but after so many conversations and some many different opinions that I've read, it's about the best that I've come up with.  Sure anyone can call themselves a chef.  Any owner can call their head cook a chef.  The title gets thrown around a lot and I don't deny people that title but to truly  be a chef it needs to come from those that work under you and said with pride.


----------



## peachcreek (Sep 21, 2001)

Thanks everyone for the replies so far!


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Yeah, I guess...

Thing is, if we want a title for our trade, we're gonna need some qualifications. Then, too, culinary schools should have some kind of a national standard and qualification to base their course syllabus on. Of course, if that were to happen, employers could base a meaningful salary on the qualification. 

Just like most of the other trades..... Who are earning meaningfull salaries.....

'Course, most of continental Europe has been doing this for cooks (and all of the other trades) for a few centuries now...

Not gonna happen anytime soon though, eh?


----------



## peachcreek (Sep 21, 2001)

I'm walking out of the kitchen and the clouds part... the golden hand of Escoffier manifests in the glowing beams of sunshine and proceeds to smack me up longside the Buff.....thats just my dream.

Foodpump, I completely agree with you. And yes Pete, this is an ongoing conversation. I struggle with the label because honestly the definition is so vague. And seeing how food television and social media has somehow inserted itself into that mix. I guess now another parameter of whether a person is a Chef or not can be taken as likes or followers or page views. Or whether the person has television appeal.

Would a nation wide or world wide standard be possible?


----------



## chefross (May 5, 2010)

*"Would a nation wide or world wide standard be possible?"*

Never..............in our lifetime.

We have discussed this as well a few times.

Setting standards with rules to abide by would cause many places to shut down.

We all know a restaurant that shouldn't be open and running.

So all of a sudden the "Food Nazis" are at their back door ready to close them down because the cook made the Bearnaise Sauce wrong.

People, this goes far beyond a health department inspection.

And pray tell, WHO would lead the standardization process? The government?


----------



## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

I still think the closest we have is the ACF process.  A series of practical and written exams, with required ongoing education, and years of experience with number of employees supervised.


----------



## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

Long long ago. There were two guys walking on the prairie. They came upon a person with a club in one hand and their foot up on the Tyrannosaurus Rex they just killed. The two guys looked at him and told him about this person that had "fire" along with a group of hungry people. The Person with the club thought the two guys could help him drag the beast over to the cave where the fire and hungry people were. The person with the club organized all the people in the cave to break down the different parts of the beast so it could be cooked. The people in the cave were “ Prep People” all working together for a common cause. The person with the fire would be the “Restaurant owner” and the two guys that helped the person with the club would have been the “ Sous Chef and Kitchen Manager” There were also some of the faster prep people "Cooks" that helped turn the beast while cooking over the fire under the direction of the person with the club. After all was done and everyone was fed they all realized they needed a leader who knew how to get the food, organize the people to process the food and train some to help cook the food. The person with the club became the leader of the cave because they had all the answers on how to keep them alive. That being said, when you think you have all the answers to be the “Person with the club" leader of the cave, then you can call yourself the Chef……..ChefBillyB


----------



## theelectricchef (May 18, 2016)

That put things in perspective ChefBillyB!


----------



## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

I do some side work for a caterer in another county, maybe once or twice a month. When I do, I am strictly another set of hired hands. I am not in charge in any shape nor fashion. Just a worker bee. For example, one day my job for the day was grilling chicken. Nothing else. I did a torrent of grilled chicken for around 8 hours.

There are several culinary school grads working there and a hierarchy of the kitchen brigade. Whenever anyone on staff (FOH/BOH) addresses me, they always start off by calling me Chef Layne. I did not insist on nor initiate the practice, it just happened of it's own accord. I have never heard anyone else in the kitchen being addressed as Chef.

I derive far more satisfaction from this salutation than any piece of paper on the wall or business card that has ever been in my pocket.


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Chefross said:


> *"Would a nation wide or world wide standard be possible?"*
> 
> Never..............in our lifetime.
> 
> ...


Ah ys, the food police.

At the moment, there are no qualifications for our trade. None. Keine, Nada. Because of this, countless culinary schools pump out "chefs" every 11 mths, there is noqualications to design the curriculum on. Because there is no benchmark or qualification, the wages in our profession suck--royaly. Because the money sucks, we aren't attracting and more importantly retaining the people we need. Because of this there is an enormous amount of convienience food being used.

So let me ask you something. You need to get your brakes on your car replaced. If you do this yourself, or get a backyard mechanic it will be cheaper. If you ever get into an accident, and the insurance co. fnds out, its over. Same thing if you need to rewire your house, or install a major gas appliance, with the added bonus of fines and having the work ripped out and redone by a qualified tradesman.

So my question to you is, are you comfortable with this? Do you find the scene I descibe practical, or do wish for no regulations whatsoever.

A union in the trades acknowledges new materials, new techniques respective to their trades. They (unions) have tremendous influence with the trade schools, who adapt new technology into their curriculum and in turn this curriculm becomes part of a municipalities building code, which is in turn adapted by insurance companies. Quite a system, eh? It also explains why a plumber is paid $40/ hr by their employer and the customer is charged $80/hr. The basis for this system is a benchmark or qualification. And there is none for the hospitality industry.

It is not the gov'ts job to develop qualifications. It is, however the gov'ts job to provide a support nework for the qualification process, as it has for so many of the other trades. The content of the qualification i(what the person should know and be capable of) is left up to the schools, the employers, and the unions.

At this moment there is no infrastructure in the hospitality industry to develop such a qualification. The schhols are too busy churning out "chefs", the unions have no desire to do anything other than garnishee paychecks, and the employers have such low profit margins that they can't or won't do anything anyway.

Food police? Or a way for the hospitality industry to continue into the 21st century that can attract and retain cooks?


----------



## chefross (May 5, 2010)

Exactly Foodpump, but, but, but..........

Plumbers, electricians, carpenters, and their ilk are looked at as a far cry from the world of cooking.

The evolution of cooking came about as totally different than any other trade. 

"Whoever heard of a professional Chef?" Who would pay $80.00 per hour to have someone cook for them?

(All tongue in cheek here,,,,,)


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Ah, 
Well the guy doing your brakes, he could kill you and many others if he's not carefull, right?
Same with the plumber putting in a new furnace, or the electrician re wiring a house.

And a cook? Has the power to make a memorable meal, a mediocre one, or to poison, maim, or even kill if their not carefull.

Thats why.


----------



## chefbruz (Nov 18, 2016)

In Aussie, we have a certification system. If you get a Certificate III in Commercial Cookery, you're a cook. You have to complete 400 hours under a qualified "chef" to get this certificate.

The Cert III incorporates all the requirements for someone to become a "chef". Ordering, management, safety etc.

I don't think you're a Chef until you're calling the pass.

I worked in a place where we had waitresses expediting the pass...


----------



## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Here in the USA, we have the ACF that has a certification program. It is a serious process, fairly grueling to work all the way through. Definitely no joke...Just curious, how many ChefTalk members base their restaurant dining choice on whether the chef is ACF certified?


----------



## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

In 30+ years in the biz I've yet to meet an ACF cert'd chef.


----------



## chefross (May 5, 2010)

Phaedrus said:


> In 30+ years in the biz I've yet to meet an ACF cert'd chef.


Really??? Wow.

I have a few friends that are and even one that is a Master Chef in accordance with the ACF program.


----------



## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

Maybe it's just the part of the country I'm in.


----------



## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

I have decided to contribute an ACF rant here. I was a member years ago in culinary school and again in New Orleans. The chapter there at the time was very active, involved in community events, worked at attracting new members, entering competitions and holding regular meetings where the purpose and activities of the group were discussed and planned,. Committees were formed to plan individual events and reported their results at each meeting. The certification process was encouraged and structure was set up to enable members to go through the various stages. 

     Some years later I moved to the area I live in now. The local chapter spent most of the time more concerned with who would get an award. Not much for community events, not much planning for getting members certified. No outreach to get local cooks to become members. I became busy with the family restaurant and let my membership expire.      

 Fast forward to today, twenty years later. After the sale of our restaurant, I decided to rejoin. The official chapter website had incorrect info about the next meeting. When I showed up on the day listed, I was told with a laugh, "They were here yesterday."   That info stayed exactly the same for over a year. Despite calls to a couple of phone numbers listed, I got no response. 

     I read in the newspaper about an upcoming event held by the ACF. When I showed up and inquired about becoming a member, I was redirected to two different people. The membership person finally spoke to had no forms or info about joining. I was told to join on the national website. I did so and attended a meeting some miles away where I paid $20 for a meal. 

The main topic of the meeting was again, who would get which award.  When I inquired about the flawed website, I was told "Joe was working on that but quit months ago and Jack has been working on it since but has no password for the website".  After the meeting, communication with members was limited to sporadic emails.  My replies to those emails were never responded to. Phone calls went unreturned. I gave up.

    Three days ago I received an application for membership renewal from the National headquarters. Professional membership costs $225 to join. In addition, each local meeting is held at a members' restaurant where a meal is to be had for an additional $20-$30. Thus an annual membership in my local chapter costs well over $400 each year. According to the application packet just received, Certification costs are additional and then there is a "site fee" charged by wherever the testing is to take place. My only unsolicited contact with ACF has come from the National group. Not a single incidence of unsolicited contact with the local chapter. 

     All of which is to say that if the ACF really wants to become relevant in any meaningful way, they need to do more than randomly mail applications. Better oversight of each chapter to make sure they are doing what is outlined in the bylaws and are active in a meaningful way. From my experience, the national group simply collects the money and each chapter is left to its' own devices for anything else.

     I have known several members with various certifications, one of whom is a Master Chef  and several CECs.  One ACF Certified Executive Chef who is also the owner of a local establishment once told me he doesn't make a practice of tasting the food he cooks. None, as far as I know, are currently active in the local chapter. 

    I don't know what, if any effect having an ACF certification would do for my resume. I do know that even without it, our restaurant had a full dining room every weekend for years. As much as I might enjoy having some credentials, given the abysmally low industry pay rate, the high cost of membership and certification and the lack of coherence on the part of my local chapter, I doubt I'll ever find out.


----------



## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

I have nothing against the ACF.  I have read their material a few times over the years.  I can see why one might affiliate oneself with them but I can't see how they could be held as the definitive measure of who is a 'real chef'.  Cooking isn't really like medicine or engineering, except in the vaguest sense.  Sure, there are some safety standards that are widely accepted but those are adequately dealt with by state and federal model food codes and companies like ServSafe.  I suppose what we're looking for isn't regulatory in that sense but rather a company that sort of keeps the dogma/holy writ.  But how do we do that in any meaningful sense?  A ways back I asked when demiglace lost the roux and it became an epic kerfuffle.  It would seem that even among classically trained cooks and chefs there's broad disagreement about many things.

To me we're more akin to painters or jugglers.  Could you really imagine a guild that could categorically state if you could call yourself a painter or a juggler?  How would police it?  Would people refuse to buy art from someone that wasn't a Certified Landscape Artist?  Would people walk out of a performance upon discovering that the juggler wasn't a Juggling Guild Member?  It seems that where art and science overlap it's hard for anyone to claim authoritative ownership of the scripture.


----------



## chipshopman (Mar 6, 2014)

Burnell Shively said:


> Hello all, this is my first post! (rounds of applause )
> Yout are a chef when you've earned the respect of your brigade. I've been in kitchens for 35 years and still call myself a cook. I own restaurants now and train all the kitchen staff. It's just a title. Stop worrying about what to call yourself and get in there!
> 
> It is very helpful to have such a forum in which to discuss such things, and this very question has been in my mind too as I prepare to set up my new business here in France as Private / Personal Chef. So thank you both for addressing it!
> ...


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Phaedrus said:


> I have nothing against the ACF. I have read their material a few times over the years. I can see why one might affiliate oneself with them but I can't see how they could be held as the definitive measure of who is a 'real chef'. Cooking isn't really like medicine or engineering, except in the vaguest sense. Sure, there are some safety standards that are widely accepted but those are adequately dealt with by state and federal model food codes and companies like ServSafe. I suppose what we're looking for isn't regulatory in that sense but rather a company that sort of keeps the dogma/holy writ. But how do we do that in any meaningful sense? A ways back I asked when demiglace lost the roux and it became an epic kerfuffle. It would seem that even among classically trained cooks and chefs there's broad disagreement about many things.
> 
> To me we're more akin to painters or jugglers. Could you really imagine a guild that could categorically state if you could call yourself a painter or a juggler? How would police it? Would people refuse to buy art from someone that wasn't a Certified Landscape Artist? Would people walk out of a performance upon discovering that the juggler wasn't a Juggling Guild Member? It seems that where art and science overlap it's hard for anyone to claim authoritative ownership of the scripture.


My background is completely different.

I did a 3 year cook s apprenticeship, same curriculum for cooks in the whole country (switzerland) with no deviation in the curriculum throughout the country except for the language it was taught in. 
Some benefits were that no matter where you worked, a julliene or a chiffonade was pretty much the same. There was also no confusion about titles. This has no influence on creativity or indivualism, but it sure makes working with others a whole lot easier. Creativity comes from complete mastery of techniques and product knowledge.

Once again, a juggler or landscape artist doesnt have the opportunity to kill, maim, or poison someone in their usual course of work, a cook does.


----------



## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

foodpump said:


> Once again, a juggler or landscape artist doesnt have the opportunity to kill, maim, or poison someone in their usual course of work, a cook does.


I dunno, I saw guy juggling running chainsaws one time! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif


----------



## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

foodpump said:


> Once again, a juggler or landscape artist doesnt have the opportunity to kill, maim, or poison someone in their usual course of work, a cook does.


Does the ACF do more to prevent foodborn illness than ServSafe? I'm not a member of their group but in the material I did see food safety wasn't the focus. I don't know about your area but in MN the health dept is pretty strict (stuff that is fine in SD doesn't fly here). I need to have my Foodservice Manager Cert and a ServSafe cert in order to serve the public.

Membership in the ACF might be a great thing but that alone isn't sufficient to work as a chef in MN.


----------



## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Phaedrus said:


> Does the ACF do more to prevent foodborn illness than ServSafe? I'm not a member of their group but in the material I did see food safety wasn't the focus. I don't know about your area but in MN the health dept is pretty strict (stuff that is fine in SD doesn't fly here). I need to have my Foodservice Manager Cert and a ServSafe cert in order to serve the public.
> 
> Membership in the ACF might be a great thing but that alone isn't sufficient to work as a chef in MN.


Yes, servsafe at the very least is required for certification. It counts as part of your education units.


----------



## chefross (May 5, 2010)

The ACF in its present form, would not work to be a governing universal entity.

The ACF does not teach you how to cook.

The ACF does not create, plan, organize, or develop teaching methods to instruct or correct.

What the ACF does do is to allow* the person* to develop the above attributes by involving themselves in programs such as the certification process, and this is done at ones own pace.

During these processes you are textbook learning while also having some hands on cooking, if you are lucky enough to be in a chapter that is busy with events all year through.

The chapters all across the nation all differ, and no 2 are the same.

One could actually go through the entire process of certification and not learn a thing.

I've worked with proof of that many times.


----------



## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

@Phaedrus Minneapolis Chapter is very active. Awards banquet is tomorrow night at Medina Ballroom. A bit of a ways for you but there are also other things to do like they were asking for extra help at the Ryder Cup the other day, etc. Job postings, monthly meetings, certification practicals, culinary team coaches. That sorta thing.


----------



## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

I've never been very motivated to join them to be honest.  As it is I'm pretty busy.  I'm not sure what upside there would be for me to take their tests to gain whatever cert's they provide since no one in my area seems to be aware of their existence.  It could potentially open doors for me down the road if my resume and work history isn't sufficient, especially if I one day move to another part of the country.  Right now though it doesn't seem like a good use of the scarce time I have.  My suspicion is that their certs are akin to a degree from a school; that's to say a suggestion of a minimum amount of knowledge that may or may not be the actual case.


----------



## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

Phaedrus- I can't speak to the certifications but i will say that if the chapter near you is an active one, it's worth looking into. During my brief time in the New Orleans chapter, I met a lot of people in the local scene, got involved in some interesting activities and generally had a great time. Certification for me was a secondary concern. I just enjoyed meeting people I could relate to. 

For that alone I wish my local chapter would get its' act together.


----------



## chef brah (Oct 10, 2016)

the day you learn how to make an omlette.

omlette takes patience, agility and precision.


----------



## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

Chef Brah said:


> the day you learn how to make an omlette.
> 
> omlette takes patience, agility and precision.


Making omelettes has nothing to do with being a chef. Making omelettes has to do with being a cook. Now, some chefs are bad cooks, and some great cooks are not chefs. By that definition my 85 year old grandmother is a chef. I mean, she makes a mean omelette.


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

I taught both of my kids to make omelettes, before they were 12 yrs old. They can make rolled, stuffed, frittatas, and can even poach eggs beautifully. 

Does this make them "Chefs"? I dunno, never gave ' em food and labour costs to keep under 22%.....


----------



## chef brah (Oct 10, 2016)

Someday said:


> Making omelettes has nothing to do with being a chef. Making omelettes has to do with being a cook. Now, some chefs are bad cooks, and some great cooks are not chefs. By that definition my 85 year old grandmother is a chef. I mean, she makes a mean omelette.


how can a chef be a bad cook?


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

How can a chef be a bad cook?

Easy

Relative owns a place, gets cheffy in, and either cheffy is good with numbers and makes money for the place, or cheffy has really good leadership/hr skills, and still manages to make money for the place.  I've worked in a few places like that, hotels as a matter of fact.

You gotta remember Chef Bah/culinary student, that a restaurant is a business.  It (restaurant) has no affiliations with charities or non profit businesses.  The only way for a business to survive is to make money, and a Chef's #1 job is to ensure that the kitchen doesn't loose money, so the owner can pay the overhead, the salaries, the suppliers, the.......


----------



## laurenlulu (Sep 9, 2012)

I've worked under quite a few chefs who were bad cooks, ones who I taught technique to as well. One insisted that I was making a mocha almond torte incorrectly because he thought it had to be a pie. Only when I showed him in his own baking book from culinary school did he back off because it's a layered cake. Like the one I was making.


----------



## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

I guess the word "torte" didn't tip him off.


----------



## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

foodpump said:


> How can a chef be a bad cook?
> 
> Easy
> 
> ...


Quoted for truth! It's impossible to overstate this part- _a Chef has no business being a Chef if he's not making money for the restaurant._ Cooking is really the easiest part of being a chef. Anyone with a speck of dexterity and a good memory can do it. Apply yourself and work the line for 10 years and you're almost guaranteed to be a great line cook. But there are lots of great cooks that crash and burn when they try to take that step up to Chef. The guy I replaced at my present job is a good example. He was a great cook, tried to do everything from scratch. We're talking baking buns from scratch for burger night! But he had zero ability to execute the stuff he wanted to do on the scale that it had to be done, and even less ability to make the numbers work. He was buying heirloom tomatoes for $6/pound to make salsa and garnish plates with. I inherited a freezer full of veal bones and duck fat that he didn't have any idea what to do with. And the guy he replaced would do the order from home, wouldn't even check to see what was on hand!

If you take a guy with a sharp head for business but mediocre cooking skills and a culinary wizard with no knowledge of accounting and financials, the former will be a lot more likely to still have the job in three years.


----------



## chefross (May 5, 2010)

Agreed, that you don't have to know how to cook as much as you need to know how to run a business and make money.

This all brings us back full circle to the original OP.

If you run a kitchen, make money for the place, but can't really cook all that well.....are you still "Chef?"


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Trick question.

If the place has sufficient employees, and the chef can't cook, but can manage the kitchen properly, then Yes, s/he is the Chef.

If the place has only one or two other cooks, and the chef is a lousy cook, then No, s/he isn't, since the chef has to cook, and you can't have a succesfull kitchen if you have lousy food.


----------



## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

To put a different spin on things, Vince Lombardi could play football, but his true talent showed when he coached.


----------



## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

foodpump said:


> Trick question.
> 
> If the place has sufficient employees, and the chef can't cook, but can manage the kitchen properly, then Yes, s/he is the Chef.
> 
> If the place has only one or two other cooks, and the chef is a lousy cook, then No, s/he isn't, since the chef has to cook, and you can't have a succesfull kitchen if you have lousy food.


Thousands of chain and franchised restaurants seem to disagree (unfortunately). But I agree with your point philosophically- in a small kitchen it's important that the chef be a good cook.


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

cheflayne said:


> To put a different spin on things, Vince Lombardi could play football, but his true talent showed when he coached.


And the exact opposite for Wayne Gretzky, fantabulous hockey player; lousy, short lived coach.


----------



## cfood047 (Jul 18, 2016)

Your a chef when you can take ingredients enjoy them each and everyone and create something where each one doesn't outshine the other but have the perfect balance......the rest I snoise in the back ground.......cook fresh stay fresh


----------



## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

Cfood047 said:


> Your a chef when you can take ingredients enjoy them each and everyone and create something where each one doesn't outshine the other but have the perfect balance......the rest I snoise in the back ground.......cook fresh stay fresh


That only makes you a good cook, not a good "chef". As stated by many others, you have to be able to run a kitchen and make money to earn that title.


Chefross said:


> Agreed, that you don't have to know how to cook as much as you need to know how to run a business and make money.
> 
> This all brings us back full circle to the original OP.
> 
> If you run a kitchen, make money for the place, but can't really cook all that well.....are you still "Chef?"


 To a point yes. A good manager, like a good coach needs to be capable at all aspects of their business but they don't necessarily have to be the best at it. A good chef knows what they excel at and what they are weak at, they then look for people whose strengths cover those weaknesses, so a chef does not have to be the strongest person on the line on every station, but they certain do need to know how to cook and they do need to be able to hold their own and the paletes need to be the best.


----------

