# Any opinion on Fischer-Bargoin?



## frenchcurious (Aug 23, 2015)

Hi all,

first post here, after being gradually sucked into this very informative forum. I have certainly not read or digested everything yet, so I'm holding back on questions that have probably been answered many times.

There is one brand that I know and have bought from several times that I do not see mentioned anywhere however : Fischer-Bargoin. A bit of context : I am french, living in France at the time, and a simple home cook becoming increasingly passionate about it. In France, Fischer-Bargoin seems mostly distributed among professionals, as I see their products in many butcher and fishmonger shops. This lead me to look into their product range, and I was surprised to discover that they were outrageously cheap compared to my expectations. They are however not very easy to come by, and maybe they aren't mentioned on CT because they are not distributed widely enough (or, because I couldn't find the related posts?).

My experience with knives is yet small : I own a set of Arcos Saeta knives, bought as a 7 piece combo at a sale. I think the steel is reasonably good, better than what I find in most usual households, but I have come to hate the handles, which can give me blisters in less than an hour of work. A couple times a year, I do some heavy duty cutting : a couple full roasted lambs in summer, a full pig in winter. On the latter occasions, I work an entire day with the knife and my Arcos were killing me. My first buy with Fischer-Bargoin was a "bleeding knife" (direct translation from french), a sort of sturdy deboner (this guy : http://media1.couteauxduchef.com/14860-large_default/couteau-a-saigner-14cm-manche-rouge-bargoin.jpg). The 15€ knife I received was perfect for the job, I loved the sturdy plastic handle and, given a lot of honing, it worked very well all day long. I also got some small paring knives, which have very flexible blades but are awesome little tools, especially for 2€50 a piece!

Recently, I needed to equip the kitchen of a sailboat, so I didn't want to spend any money on something that would probably rust in a couple of months. I then realized that Fischer-Bargoin also made more kitchen oriented knives (including the so-called 'creative chef' line, with colorful plastic handles), and not just specialized butcher knives. I bought this 20 cm chef knife (sorry, the site is in french): http://www.hubert-online.fr/CDE.108899/Couteau-de-cuisine-longueur-200-cm-noir-Fischer-Bargoin.html. The knife I received really impressed me : for under 15€, I found that good feeling handle again, I liked the balance and the profile... I was actually jealous of this knife compared to my 80€ Saeta chef knife!

I don't know much about the steel, except that these are made in Thiers. Their website only mentions that they use "french steel"... The fact that I see many professionals use it tells me that it must have some good properties, but then a butcher probably does not have the same needs as a chef. After a couple hours of use I feel like this steel is quite soft, and needs a lot of honing. This makes sense to me, since I see professional butchers hone all the time. This could mean that a conclusion is that they are good for specific uses, but not for an all around chef knife that might be used extensively...?

Looking forward to any enlightened views on the subject!


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Welcome to Cheftalk FC. I'm burning the midnight oil tonight.

What you actually have is an NSF or sani-safe knife, fairly basic house knives for a professional kitchen. The chefs looks very much like a Forschener Fibrox, but with what appears to be a slimmer [and subsequently better] handle. These are very serviceable knives, though rather low-grade in comparison to other knives discussed on this forum.

I suppose a lot of butchers will use knives like these. Here in the States you will find some using butcher knives made of significantly harder and better steel, AUS8 for one. At some packing plants I believe you will still find good carbon steel knives. They will use a packers steel, a smooth non-ribbed steel, as these do not damage the edge like ribbed steels and are enough to keep the better knives working through a typical shift.

Rick


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## frenchcurious (Aug 23, 2015)

Hi Rick, thanks for the answer.

After reading even more of this forum's contents, I realize that in some way my post could almost pass as a "cutco vendor" one. Except for a company no one knows!  But I'm really just curious.

About being curious, your answer got me thinking. The following is me thinking out loud for the sake of curiosity, so please don't bother if you find the subject boring!

I guess my question could be slightly widened to : how come professionals such as butchers, or slaughterhouse workers, which use a knife all day long, seem undisturbed by "low quality" soft steels? Is it really a combination of parameters related to their very specific use? I'm thinking, off the top of my head, of the following:

- they have time to hone over and over again, so weak edge retention is not an issue;

- they may abuse their knives like few other professionals, especially with the amount of bone-related work they perform;

- they actually need _so much_ sharpness that they prefer to hone every couple of strokes than have an extraordinary edge retaining steel, which will still loose its edge after some time and require to interrupt work to refresh.

But maybe not. Do japanese fishmongers who open up huge tunas all day long (essentially doing the same work as slaughterhouse workers) use soft steels? I doubt it, it doesn't seem to be in the culture. If in fact western butchery could as easily (and practically) be done with hard steels, then I wonder : are high quality hard steel knives just a pricey hobby? The only butcher I know loves his knives too : he sharpens all of them once a day using whetstones, and of course he spends a good portion of his day honing. He has a lot of respect for his tools, and they are razor sharp at all times. They just happen to cost 10-20 bucks a piece! If your sharpening plan is to keep a soft steel very sharp at all times, maybe it's as good a plan as any other. With the advantage of being a lot cheaper, at least as an initial investment.

Anyway, thanks for your answer!

FC


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

People typically will continue doing what is familiar, even though better exists, simply because they are averse to change. Sailors kept on building racing boats with internal ballast for years even though the long weighted keel boats were killing them. Just one of hundreds of examples of major long-term stupidity. I am involved in high-functioning autism remediation and you should hear the insane idiocy that comes out of people's mouths as reasons why they don't want to change anything about themselves, despite the fact that it means I life of relative misery, and burden to tax payers who often wind up supporting them with disability benefits.

Then many people just grow comfortable in their ways and see no need for change. It's part of their routine and it works for them.



Rick


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## grande (May 14, 2014)

Well, they're cheap(a), which means if one get bent, broken, dropped, or stolen you don't worry- same reason i don't use expensive knives at work. They perform fine(b), of course other knives are harder/sharper, but would they do a better job in a slaughterhouse setting? Probably they would functionally make no difference. (C)You need to steel your knife a lot when cutting meat anyway because the fat builds up on the blade. (D) A lot if health departments have regulations about handles that fibrox and sani safe exist to meet.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Yes Grande, but there's no romance in any of those facts.  ;-)~

But fat buildup, that's interesting.  In all seriousness I find it a goldmine here having the insights of professionals.

Rick


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