# What on earth is going on with American chefs



## hamlrt (Feb 11, 2013)

Hello there , I don't post often however I feel the need to ask this question . What is going on with American chefs , firstly a little about myself , I am a chef of some 26 years I trained in Europe and have literally worked around the world in mostly high end establishments . 
My last position in Europe was with the military as a head chef . I left Europe to start a new life here in the USA with my wife . And I must say I am quite disgusted . 
I currently reside in Raleigh NC , and I was very aware that I would probably have to start again . 
Whilst waiting for permanent residency I needed work , so I got off my backside and went to find work , and I did find a job at a large international Hotel chain . The position was of evening shift supervisor , was I disappointed oh hell yes . 
A so called exec chef who was home by 2pm every day , a sous chef who gave me rotten meat to cook with , lazy and apathetic cooks . A filthy kitchen with grease everywhere 
And rotting over ordered food in every fridge , I was told at the interview the kitchens were old 
Not a problem really as the kitchens I was in in Germany were from the 1950's ....however they were clean and I kept them clean . After three days in the position I was expected to run a function for 300 and manage a very very busy restaurant , with no senior members of staff 
around , I am very capable and professional but a new guy running such a large function on his own ....really .....,how stupid and careless could you be . 
So I searched a new position which I attained , again I was met with apathy , laziness 
And a general couldn't care less attitude , plenty of staff members with big Texan hats and no cattle ( as my wife would say) , a supervisor who had worked everywhere 911 first responder , college tutor, ex policeman , ran several high end places in New York .......so when exactly did this person gain culinary experience ....,,
Second supervisor apparently ran a jazz club in NY , and worked at the ritz Carlton in Georgia ....yet cannot roast a prime rib and spends most of his time talking .....
I'll tell you that these jokers couldn't run a beer party in a pub with the beers poured out behind them. 
I am disheartened and ashamed to call myself a professional chef , my heart bleeds when I see the garbage these people produce . In fact I am so disgusted I am pretty much done with being a chef , and it's what I loved and what I have done all my life . 
I understand that in this profession there are good guys and bad guys same with every profession and it's about time people stood up to the mark and became professional 
But that just isn't going to happen is it . 
And to tell you of my career awards so you don't think I'm some yahoo Brit spouting off....
1977 Salon Culiniere Plymouth ( my first competition against adults Highly commended certificate , I was 11 years old) 
1986 Salon Culiniere Torquay bronze medal 
1989 Salon Culiniere Torquay silver medal 
1992 Young chef of the year award 
Cooked for Hollywood A listers 
Cooked for British and German Royalty 
Ran high end functions and so on ..

Your thoughts please


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

It is pretty difficult to respond diplomatically to a fairly scathing post on my profession and my country.

I am proud of where I currently work, what we produce, and the way the establishment is run. The same goes for the vast majority of establishments in my past. When on occasion, I encountered an operation that didn't fit this description, I quickly moved on.

Just so you won't think I am some yahoo Yank sounding off... I have worked across the United States and internationally as well. I have worked with lots of Europeans (some good, some not so good), plenty of other nationalities, and of course countless Americans.

I try to stay away from making blanket judgements.


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## hamlrt (Feb 11, 2013)

Hello there , it's not just a scathing attack on your profession , it's an attack on my profession as well . 
However it is a well deserved question to ask , and a question I've been cogitating on for some time now and finally decided to ask . Yes I have met many chefs across the world some good some bad , and I have taught and trained juniors in many establishments . 
However I seem to have met a plethora of bloody idiots in a very short space of time .
How are we supposed to enthuse young people into a very hard profession if all they see 
are idiots ...


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

My thoughts? My thoughts are you can't lump an entire country and community of chefs into one category based on your 2 places of employment in the US. 

What if I were to watch Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares (UK version) and think that must be how all UK chefs operate. 

If you have such great experience my advice would be to get a job in a position that can affect change and go from there.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

hamlrt said:


> How are we supposed to enthuse young people into a very hard profession if all they see
> are idiots ...


by not being one myself. I can do nothing about idiots. They exist. They are a fact of life. I believe in safety in numbers, so to protect myself from idiots, I attempt to lead by example and thereby surround myself with non-idiots.


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## hamlrt (Feb 11, 2013)

It's not lumping an entire country and community on the experience of two jobs here in the USA 
It's the experience of my years in the industry , I have actually, Kind of worked in the us before on cruise lines , I say kind of worked as I was at sea most of the time .
And I'm sorry to say that Chef Ramsays " reality tv shows" are great tv entertainment , and nothing more . And I also expected the " if you don't like like it " kind of answer too. 
I wanted my thoughts to be shared amongst professional chefs. And I'm ready for the inevitable outpourings of offended chefs and cooks everywhere. 
May I ask you how long you have been in the industry? And what kind of establishment you are currently in , are you just a line cook or are you specialising .


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## hamlrt (Feb 11, 2013)

I never said that you were a idiot , I asked how do we enthuse young people when all they see are idiots . It's very good that you surround yourself with non idiots. 
All I have done is shown my upset over a profession I once truly loved and still do to a extent , I could not have done the extreme hours and many years in the business if I truly did not love the business.
I truly and honestly expected to meet chefs and cooks who were passionate and professional and cared about what they did .


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

hamlrt said:


> It's not lumping an entire country and community on the experience of two jobs here in the USA
> It's the experience of my years in the industry , I have actually, Kind of worked in the us before on cruise lines , I say kind of worked as I was at sea most of the time .
> And I'm sorry to say that Chef Ramsays " reality tv shows" are great tv entertainment , and nothing more . And I also expected the " if you don't like like it " kind of answer too.
> I wanted my thoughts to be shared amongst professional chefs. And I'm ready for the inevitable outpourings of offended chefs and cooks everywhere.
> May I ask you how long you have been in the industry? And what kind of establishment you are currently in , are you just a line cook or are you specialising .


You said "what on earth is going on with American chefs." That is lumping an entire country. Working on a cruise ship doesn't count. And I know that Ramsay's shows are for entertainment purposes, but it does show that very, very bad kitchens and chefs can work in, gasp, Europe. They exist everywhere.

And again, if you are going to lump an entire country full of chefs based on your limited exposure of 2 kitchens, then the problem lies just as much with you as it does anywhere else. Find a kitchen you can be proud to work in. Find a job where you can affect change. If you have been in the kitchen for 26 years why are you putting up with it? Why aren't you running a kitchen yourself?

Would you feel better if I posted my CV for your review?


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## hamlrt (Feb 11, 2013)

Mr someday , I don't need to see your CV . Yes I have been in kitchens my entire working life , and I can tell you working on cruise ships brings a whole new meaning to working hard . And why aren't I running my own kitchen , well that's a whole different story of which I am not going to divulge here . 
I have expressed my disappointment in the American chefs and cooks whom I have met and the disappointment which I personally feel. And for your very educated opinion I am not putting up with it , I am searching for a decent kitchen , but that sir is none of your business and again I do not feel the need to outline .
I seem to have hit a raw nerve here haven't I .


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

hamlrt said:


> I truly and honestly expected to meet chefs and cooks who were passionate and professional and cared about what they did .


I am able to find them. Perhaps you need to be more selective when you interview. Attitude starts from the top position and filters down. When you interview, make sure it is a two way street. Ask probing in depth questions. Ask to observe shift or two before making a decision if a position is offered.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

hamlrt said:


> I seem to have hit a raw nerve here haven't I .


Look at the title of your thread. I don't think it is so much hitting a raw nerve as much as it is more like a razor slash from your keyboard. What type of response could I expect from a thread entitled "What on earth is going on with British chefs?" I doubt I would receive much love.


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## hamlrt (Feb 11, 2013)

Cheflayne , yes you are right attitude does start from the top , I have never expected anyone to do work that I would never do . I have always led by example .
Yes I am a immigrant to the USA , and I knew I would not be able to just waltz into any position I desired , I knew it would be tough , I knew no one would understand my qualifications ( it runs different in the UK ) however I truly thought my resume would speak volumes ..... How wrong was I .
But that is by the by . 
And that's a great idea of observing a shift or two before making a choice , I would never have thought of that . And yes a interview is two way I totally agree there 
However there's a fine line between probing questions and downright arrogance , it's a interview not a interrogation . 
But you know when your back is to the wall , and you have to work to survive , you can't always be so terribly picky .i just did not expect to experience what I have experienced .
However the pin on the hand grenade gas been pulled ......


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## hamlrt (Feb 11, 2013)

Yes a razor slash is what is needed sometimes , I wasn't expecting love , hugs and chocolates . I quite expect the " who the %#%# does this Limey think he is " 
Oh the outrage of somebody like me , telling the truth about his experiences . I hope that people will read my post and be outraged because I am outraged .
I don't enjoy upsetting people or being a arrogant tosser from across the pond , but I feel I wish to make my feelings of disgust and disappointment known.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

I think you have.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

hamlrt said:


> Mr someday , I don't need to see your CV . Yes I have been in kitchens my entire working life , and I can tell you working on cruise ships brings a whole new meaning to working hard . And why aren't I running my own kitchen , well that's a whole different story of which I am not going to divulge here .
> I have expressed my disappointment in the American chefs and cooks whom I have met and the disappointment which I personally feel. And for your very educated opinion I am not putting up with it , I am searching for a decent kitchen , but that sir is none of your business and again I do not feel the need to outline .
> I seem to have hit a raw nerve here haven't I .


Again, what does being American have to do with anything? There are bad cooks, lazy chefs and substandard quality everywhere in the world. You are in the position you are in because of the choices you've made. You work in the kitchens you work in because you chose to work there. You are in the US because you chose to come here.

You want to come on here and bitch about your job, that is fine. Nothing wrong with that--this forum is a good place for venting. But don't act like every chef in America is like that because you've worked in 2 bad kitchens in the US, in North Carolina. It's smacks of elitism and snobbishness--not very good qualities in a true chef. If the title of your thread had been "Why can't I find a good job" or "Why does every place I work suck" then we could be having a different conversation.

And just to clarify, when I said working on cruise ships "doesn't count" I only meant that it doesn't count as working in an "American" kitchen. I'm sure the experience was valuable.

You have to seek out the best--obviously you haven't done that.


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## hamlrt (Feb 11, 2013)

Mr someday , if you had read the post rather than incensed by it or rather so offended by this snobbish Brit who is elitist , you would have noticed 
That I had said. , I knew it was going to be hard and also that I was probably going to have to start again . 
Yes I chose to come here and I expected that sort of reply as well .....the kind of " if you don't like it here " comment . You Sir have no idea of how hard I have tried to find the right position and you also have no idea of what I as a legal entrant have been through , You sir have taken a knee jerk reaction 
To me disrespecting the industry that you Sir have been a part of for the last couple of years , And yes I do disrespect the lazy dirty apathetic bums whom I have had to deal with in my limited time here , and they would be American chefs because they sure as hell ain't Chinese . If you feel that you Sir can make a 
Rational reply , please do . And no I'm not expecting hugs and kisses either , but if you could enlighten me to the wisdom of your obvious vast experience I shall be glad to hear it.


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## grande (May 14, 2014)

Actually, I can sympathize with our OP. It can be hard to find a good chef to work for, especially in unglamourous working kitchens, places where the minimal local labor pool can't produce enough talent to fill all the local kitchens with hard working, food loving people. Of course it's shocking when you come to a new country; if I went to england, without a job, and landed a gig in a real $h*t kitchen, i'd be telling all my friends, "You won't believe how they do things here..."
Sure, it's only two kitchens, but if you got two in a row like that, you'd start to think it was the norm, wouldn't you?


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

hamlrt said:


> Mr someday , if you had read the post rather than incensed by it or rather so offended by this snobbish Brit who is elitist , you would have noticed
> That I had said. , I knew it was going to be hard and also that I was probably going to have to start again .
> Yes I chose to come here and I expected that sort of reply as well .....the kind of " if you don't like it here " comment . You Sir have no idea of how hard I have tried to find the right position and you also have no idea of what I as a legal entrant have been through , You sir have taken a knee jerk reaction
> To me disrespecting the industry that you Sir have been a part of for the last couple of years , And yes I do disrespect the lazy dirty apathetic bums whom I have had to deal with in my limited time here , and they would be American chefs because they sure as hell ain't Chinese . If you feel that you Sir can make a
> Rational reply , please do . And no I'm not expecting hugs and kisses either , but if you could enlighten me to the wisdom of your obvious vast experience I shall be glad to hear it.


Disrespected the industry? No, you disrespected an entire group/culture of chefs who have just as much experience, work just as hard, and care just as much as you because you worked at a Marriot or some shit in North Carolina. You feel however you want to feel about where you work, but don't come in here and blanket every American chef because of your limited exposure to American kitchens.

And also, I fail to see what about any of my responses was irrational. I'm quite rational. I read every one of your posts. But I guess labeling my response as irrational makes it easier for you to dismiss the truth in what I said...so go on. 


Grande said:


> Actually, I can sympathize with our OP. It can be hard to find a good chef to work for, especially in unglamourous working kitchens, places where the minimal local labor pool can't produce enough talent to fill all the local kitchens with hard working, food loving people. Of course it's shocking when you come to a new country; if I went to england, without a job, and landed a gig in a real $h*t kitchen, i'd be telling all my friends, "You won't believe how they do things here..."
> Sure, it's only two kitchens, but if you got two in a row like that, you'd start to think it was the norm, wouldn't you?


Everyone who has ever worked in the industry can sympathize with the OP. That's not the issue. The issue is pigeon holing an entire group of chefs based on his 2 job experiences in the states. And no, I wouldn't think that it's how they do it in England, I would think that I worked in some shitty kitchens and find new ones. I certainly wouldn't blame the entirety of British Chefdom in the process. In fact, I would say that probably in most of the world there are more shit kitchens than good ones. Not abnormal in any country.


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## matthew bauman (Jul 19, 2014)

It sounds like these restaurants that you mention lack leadership. Changing the mindset and culture in an establishment is an uphill battle. Sometimes it is easier to clean house and start over.


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## alaminute (Aug 22, 2013)

Oh man, where to start... I'm really tired of the stereotypes and over- generalizations. "Young cooks these days", "American laziness", etc. like WOW!!!
Dude, Alaine Ducasse is the man, and I loves me some fat duck twitter but we've produced Thomas mother lovin Keller! Restaurants like le Bernardin (I know they're French, but the spot is on NY) and other underdogs like Sean Brock! Two words: grant achatz!!!!
I'm still willing to bet that statistically the same amount of chefs/cooks who cared in the 80's in Britain about they're careers care about food today in America. It's a brave new world. 
If you want to work for a good place then research your area. I'm sure there are decent teams around you that'll give you a run for your money. Don't just take any job, if you're as good as you say you are then you'll be able to pick your position. I guarantee my restaurant doesn't have lackluster employees working in a grease stained kitchen and our building is a historic residence dating back to the 1920's.
This is one of the most narrow minded and frustrating things I've heard in awhile, and I post belligerent one sided posts all over this site!


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## kirayng (May 28, 2014)

If you want to work in a good restaurant, start going out to eat in them, meet the chef there ask if there is a job or if he knows of a place hiring.... that's how we get into good kitchens in the states.  If you want a shit show, get a job off of craigslist. bite at the first opportunity and you will find the worst kitchens in the city.

From 15 years experience, and I have lived 3 years in Belgium (absolutely glorious part of my life, visited London enough to know how to get around, all over English and Irish country side, have some beautiful lands and diverse food).


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## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

You may not be looking for hugs and kisses but you sure are acting like you expected everybody to agree with you. For the record, I am Canadian and don't have a horse in the Nationalism race. Though I do find gross generalzations pretty hard to take seriously. You have done a pretty good hatchet job on your coworkers, which all sounds like a bad scene. It also sounds like you have done very little to understand your work place. Gripping about you exec. leaving at two? Ever consider why that might be? Is he/she there at seven am? Is it a union hotel? If a newbie supervisor is left to handle a function of three hundred, I am willing to bet your Chef is busting his ass costing confrence menues, organizing functions, having time sucking meeting with Hotel managment and vendors, etc.

Your attitude smacks of self importance and lack of empathy. I have seen way too many cooks with sort of attitude, waving their flaccid cvs around and complaining and blaming rather than doing any of the actual work you were hired for.

For the record, I expect no kisses, but hugs are always appreciated.


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## hamlrt (Feb 11, 2013)

Thank you Grande !!!
You hit the nail on the head . It's good that I have outraged people and you should be outraged as to what is happening to the industry . I am not and ever been afraid of really hard work , I worked across Europe with many good and bad chefs and in bad kitchens and good kitchens , but now it's not just about me and my career I can't up sticks and move to New York or other place where there are good kitchens. Ask yourself this if YOU were in my position how would you feel.
I'm sorry if I have high standards , and I'm sorry if you feel it's acceptable to have filthy kitchens and equally disgusting working conditions. 
Do you not think it odd , that a chef of some 26 years experience should be so upset that he wants nothing more to do with culinary because that's how I feel right now. Now I'm not looking for sympathies or a pat on the back and a never mind things will get better .....I have my big boy pants on ok . 
I came to the USA with great attitude and very high hopes and dreams , as I said before I knew it wouldn't be easy and I knew it would be hard and I was prepared 
For that . 
And I was prepared to start again from the beginning , but when you are up against a wall and trying to climb over its bloody hard you know what I mean. There's more than just me now , yes I blanketed everyone because I have not met anyone yet to change my opinions .i have never heard of some of the famous chefs mentioned in a earlier post just as I suspect that you have never heard of many famous British chefs other than Ramsey . 
Yes the kitchens I have worked in , in my limited exposure in the USA have lacked leadership but I am a mere peon immigrant and cannot change that , sadly I came here to the USA at a bad time in a recession and there isn't that much quality work about ....and god knows I have tried , walking the streets cold calling 
Writing letters and applications , what more can I do ..really. You tell me . And don't give me that old chestnut " if you don't like it go back to Europe " because it ain't happening . 
Mr someday , whom appears to be our little morally outraged chef community , I suggest you put yourself in my shoes ,trying to pay the bills and keep it together 
Whilst looking for a job in a place other than a shitty Marriott as he so quoted . As he is such a fine example of the culinary industry how would he feel if he was given rotten meat to cook with , had to work in a filthy kitchen or work with such lousy bums of chefs yet know that he can't leave because the bills must be paid 
And there's no other source of income . Now this is not a whine I get no assistance from the govt. as a immigrant for five years , until I've paid into the system 
And that's how it should be , I don't have a problem with this . 
Yes I chose to come here , yes I am very grateful to be here , yes I am very happy with my new life , and NO I am not happy with my culinary experiences so far 
And to be honest with you no one right now is changing my opinion of that right now .


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## hamlrt (Feb 11, 2013)

Sorry to be a bit disjointed , 
Yes I am self important and yes I am arrogant but also humble , that's what makes me a good chef , I understand my workplaces I am not so vain or stupid not to.
I was not looking for everyone to agree with me , that's a impossible thing to expect . To the Canadian gentleman , a good exec chef should be in at the place of work at a reasonable time and go home at a reasonable time , he's worked for it and deserves it , and should be there when a major function goes out and not leave it to a new guy who doesn't know his way around the building yet , let alone knows how the kitchen runs . When I was a executive chef. And executive sous chef I would be in at 8.00am in the morning and be done by 7.00 pm so that I could oversee at least three mealtimes , if there was a new person he would be paired up with a buddy and or given training , to blatantly leave someone new on their own who was new is really bad management and shows a lack of care , and I'd be doing paperwork and meetings as well as kitchen work. 
To the other poster......
Eating out at lovely restaurants is a great way to find a new job , I agree . But paying the bills rather than eating out is kind of more important don't you agree.


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## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

Oh well, you have met what, a couple dozen people in an country of millions, I guess it really is a pretty rational response then. Dude, you actually are a supervisor, you actually can do something to change your work place. You are starting to sound less like you were prepared to start at the bottom and more like you wanted to. As in everything would be humming along just fine and you would not be involved getting it there. Its clear you want a position of authority yet don't want the responsibility that goes with it. You have come out and said you are dealing with untrained, unskilled coworkers. You are actually the one who should know better here. So teach, display and lead. It will suck, it will frustrate. Thats the job.


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

I am an American chef and I am proud of that fact, so yes, I take offense at your gross over generalization.  I have been involved in the foodservice world since I was 8 years old, when my parents opened up their restaurant.  I am 44 years old now so let's say that I've been in this business, on and off for the better part of 30+.  In that time I have worked in great places and lousy places.  I have met motivated, hard-working talented chefs, and I've met lazy, shoemaker type chefs.  I've worked with American, French, German, British, Canadian, and Hispanic chefs.  I have worked for, and with, druggies, alcoholics, the mentally unstable, geniuses, the truly creative, the burnt out, the young, and the old.  I've been mentored by both men and women.  And the one thing I have learned is that you cannot make assumptions about people based on just a few experiences.  I've worked for European chefs who couldn't cook their way out of a paper bag and survived solely on their accent and ego, and I've worked with Hispanic cooks that would put the most educated culinarian to shame.

That said, I will agree that there are a lot of crappy restaurants run by kitchen managers that call themselves chefs, but there is also a plethora of amazing restaurants out there turning out fabulous food.  To make a blanket statement about American chefs is shallow, short sighted an irrational.  You ask Someday to give you a rational reply, yet your entire argument is irrational.  And if you don't think so then let me put it this way-there are thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of restaurants in this country and you are making a generalization based on what 2-4 of them.  Does that should rational to you?

Ultimately, just about all of us, in this business, can relate to some of the problems you are having.  Most of us have had bad experiences with kitchens at one time or another, and you would probably gotten plenty of sympathetic  replies if you had stuck with the facts, but by making this about American chefs in general, after such limited experience, you come across as whiny, and elitist


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## veronporter (May 9, 2011)

I haven't read the whole thread and I'm sure it's already been said but...

There are just as many shitty/poorly run restaurants in the UK(and every other country), it's pretty ignorant of you to claim this as some American phenomenon. If you want to avoid working at places like this, I suggest you employ a more scrupulous process when selecting where you want to work. There is a reason we agree to stage at restaurants before accepting a job. It's just as much for the employee to decide if he wants to work somewhere as it is for the employer to screen the applicant. If it's as bad as you say, you should have seen the red flags a mile away.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

The power of perceptions.

One can look and see idiots everywhere. One can look and see people that need training from a positive professional role model.

One perception fosters a personal feeling of superiority and a loner attitude. One perception fosters a we and team feeling.

The choice is up to the individual.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

This guy is completely missing the point. He seems to think that we are upset that he is upset, when we are really upset about his gross generalization of American chefs. Of course I wouldn't serve rotten meat, I wouldn't expect him to. But I also would expect someone with his experience to realize that it has nothing to do with nationality, it has to do with working in a bad kitchen (which are everywhere).


hamlrt said:


> Mr someday , whom appears to be our little morally outraged chef community , I suggest you put yourself in my shoes ,trying to pay the bills and keep it together
> Whilst looking for a job in a place other than a shitty Marriott as he so quoted . As he is such a fine example of the culinary industry how would he feel if he was given rotten meat to cook with , had to work in a filthy kitchen or work with such lousy bums of chefs yet know that he can't leave because the bills must be paid
> And there's no other source of income . Now this is not a whine I get no assistance from the govt. as a immigrant for five years , until I've paid into the system
> And that's how it should be , I don't have a problem with this .
> ...


I'd feel much the same as you in your situation, I'm sure. But again (for like the 10th time) I wouldn't bash an entire countries' worth of chefs based on my limited exposure.

I suspect that, if you are indeed "starting from the bottom" after 26 years of experience, there is a reason why you aren't running your own kitchen or otherwise in a position to do something about your situation. What is that reason? I don't know....again my advice stands. Find something better--bide your time until the right opportunity comes along.

You know, its funny, because I often hear about how Raleigh-Durham is an up-and-coming food scene with lots of young, talented chefs and restaurants that are getting national attention.

Your choices have lead you to where you are. You're not happy? Then do something about it. By all means, come on this board and vent. Ask for advice. But don't come on here and blast "American" chefs and expect a response other than what you got.

Again, just one more time so I hope it sinks in, no one is saying that you shouldn't be upset about your current employment. We are upset because you pigeon holed millions of hard working, dedicated chefs based on the 2 places you worked. If you think that is appropriate than I am starting to see why you are where you are.


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## veronporter (May 9, 2011)

The crazy thing is; I know for a fact there are some really great restaurants in the Raleigh/Chapel Hill/Durham areas. I know because I'm currently looking into it. Yet here he is whining about being stuck at a shitty restaurant and having to pay the bills like there are no better alternatives out there.


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## beastmasterflex (Aug 14, 2013)

This one is pretty hilarious. My guess is he got a job at a freaking Holiday Inn.

Hey OP look in the mirror the long in the tooth old timers that can't hack it anymore are the problem. Fortunately they pool conveniently in the receptacles of said has-beens, the public sorta knows where ya'll are at too. Maybe time to look into being a food rep?


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## lagom (Sep 5, 2012)

Hey Beast, this old man will swing a knife with you or any of the young bucks out there any day. To paraphrase The Holy Grail " I'm not dead yet, I feel happy". 

However, I will skip the beers afterwork, slide into my car and drive home. I do require my beauty sleep.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Lagom said:


> I do require my beauty sleep. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif


How's it working for you? Mine ain't paying any dividends yet


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## hamlrt (Feb 11, 2013)

Well well , seem to have struck raw nerves all around , yep I'm probably a has been 
I'm also a terrible person ...this is what you want to hear right ....or I'm so terribly awfully sorry for upsetting all of you out there , perhaps I should have named the post. Oompah loompas 
Of America ...then no one would have been hurt . 
I have worked damned hard over the years, in great places in lousy places for absolute psychos and for nice guys . 
I truly have met very few of what I would consider really decent chefs , yes I am stuck in a really nasty job and I am working to get out of that nasty job . I cogitated about this post for some time and finally decided to post anyway , just dry your eyes all of you . 
Thank you to the few posts which weren't vitriolically defending the flag of the American chef 
Just look in the mirror all of you who think I'm being unfair and nasty and think how you would feel as a newcomer to a country , who has skills and abilities yet is pretty much stifled from using them and then being treated like scum , whilst trying to keep some kind of dignity about yourself .
Just look in the mirror . I certainly have .


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

At this point I have no idea what it is that you expect to get out this thread; but trying to keep your dignity by getting indignant, seems to be a prospect doomed to fail to me.

I lived and worked in a British territory for a few years and I would never dream of posting anything similar. It certainly wouldn't change any situation I encountered during my time there that I might view as negative. The only way to possibly change that is to look at my part in the equation so that I could possibly change future encounters.

I also have a tendency to focus more on the positive than the negative which seems to make overall, for more positive encounters than negative ones. Go figure.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

I'm beginning to think this guy is just full of it and a troll. He can't be this thick.


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## janedoe10001 (Jul 25, 2014)

hamlrt said:


> And to tell you of my career awards so you don't think I'm some yahoo Brit spouting off....
> 1977 Salon Culiniere Plymouth ( my first competition against adults Highly commended certificate , I was 11 years old)
> 1986 Salon Culiniere Torquay bronze medal
> 1989 Salon Culiniere Torquay silver medal
> ...


My thought is why would you feel the need to boast your accolades here, you're not interviewing.

I'm not sure if you noticed or not hamlrt, but the USA is in a bit of a economic slump.

People are taking whatever jobs they can get, whether or not they are qualified in your eyes or not,

so long as they get the job and can keep it and be paid in order to pay their bills.

You are a guest in our country and you are getting a paycheck to pay your bills.

What does it matter how someone else is running their business, it's not yours, you're the employee, period.

I understand that you just wanted to vent your discord, but as others have said, a general, sweeping statement is not necessarily the way to do it.


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## cuthculain (Jul 8, 2014)

OP you sound like you should be working at Sysco......haha


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## grande (May 14, 2014)

Dang, I haven't seen this many people gang up on someone since the last cutco thread.
I think cheflayne hit the nail on the head when he said hamlrt just wants to save his dignity, otherwise he would just apologize for the one thing thats offending people: the name of the thread. But if any of you told me this was the first chef you met that didn't want to admit he was wrong, well, that's even more rediculous.
Hey Someday, i know that everyone in this business has seen some sh*tholes; maybe the reason I'm not offended is because my last job is more analogous to his situation than just a crappy restaurant; it was a restaurant that should have been good but had a chef that seemed determined not to give a crap. I put a lot of work in there, training cooks, rotating food, trying to keep deep cleaning rolling, and that was harder than the actual job(I was PM supervisor).
So I gave it a year and left.
So, I actually don't mind the question, because I know that there are some great chefs out there, and I'm not just talking about creative, hi end type chefs. There seem to be fewer and fewer even good KMs these days. When I go to llocal chef/owner type places, the failings I see are usually of basics that good chefs I worked for would have chewed me out for. Seems like the hardest thing go find these days is just people who want to do the work.
Hamlrt, these guys are trying to tell you that not everywhere is the same; go look for a job you are gonna like. There are places where people care about what they do, front and back. They tend to congregate together; looking at your old posts seems like you have been at this spot for a year; if you don't like it effing quit


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## lagom (Sep 5, 2012)

Me


cheflayne said:


> How's it working for you? Mine ain't paying any dividends yet


Meh, not so much.  thank god for my wife having low standards in looks.


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## nicko (Oct 5, 2001)

@cheflayne if there is no positive benefit to anyone in the community from this discussion lock it down. No point in spiralling any further into the dark abyss.


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

Grande, I agree with quite a bit about what you said.  I don't think any of us hear disagree that there are a lot of crappy restaurants and crappy chefs out there.  It's the OP's gross generalization that this is a problem with all American chefs that have got people "itchin' for a fight."  We've had many threads, on here about the crappy places people have worked and we've all lamented the state of our industry, at times.  But this is by no means a problem relegated to the US, nor is it a problem relegated to "American" chefs.  It's quite obvious this guy has his mind made up about what goes on in all American kitchens, whether true or not and no amount of rational discussion is going to persuade him otherwise, especially when he feels that we are being the irrational ones.

Also, as a moderator I do need to ask that posters here do clean up their language somewhat.  We try to keep things "family friendly" here, even in the professional threads and we've been kind of lack in this thread with cleaning up some of the language so I respectfully ask that you guys keep the language "G" rated.  Thanks!!!!


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## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

@Nicko, agreed. Hope I didn't accelerate the descent. I know that I have been surlier than usual.

To end my comments with something maybe constructive,@hmlrt, it sounds like you are really unhappy and frustrated. If the old saying "you are only as good as your last plate" holds for you than putting out zero plates that you are happy with in a hotel environment does nothing for the sense of self worth. If you are feeling "locked out" of fine dinning environments that you think would be better, working in a second rate one will not help get you in.In other words, if the place is as bad as you say, then other places in your market are going to wind up painting you with the same brush.

If I might make a suggestion, maybe you might like to look around for something not in fine dinning. Someplace that serves something niche, simple even, but does everything from scratch and with a tonne of pride. Lets face it, that is usually the sort of place that the kind of chefs you are looking to get the attention of are going to be eating.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Can we bring back the Cutco thread?

Pleeeze?

The last sales rep didn't answer my response yet.....


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## cuthculain (Jul 8, 2014)

foodpump said:


> Can we bring back the Cutco thread?
> 
> Pleeeze?
> 
> The last sales rep didn't answer my response yet.....


Hahahaha foodpump. You sir win the internet for the day. Lol


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Nicko said:


> @cheflayne if there is no positive benefit to anyone in the community from this discussion lock it down. No point in spiralling any further into the dark abyss.


Following this advice for this thread. It is going into lockdown.


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