# Need to vent, this station is eating me up



## abrams892 (Jun 10, 2011)

Ok, so here is the back story. I am a 19 year old extern from culinary school working at a michelin star restaurant in nyc. This is the first real station I have ever worked not including the salad station at the old diner I worked at. I work extremely hard and it earned me a spot on the hardest station in the restaurant. It seems that the chefs trust me enough to work this station. Every day feels like a horrible anxiety attack because I know that no matter what I do I cannot set this station up on time without a little help right before service. I organize, multitask, and bust my ass as hard as I can yet its not good enough. I make game plans, to do lists, go over everything the night before and so on. It's eating me up especially when my mentor at the restaurant told me speed comes with time and experience. I told him that's not an excuse and he said its not, its a fact. Last week on my Friday my chef cursed me off so much and told me I didn't give a sh*t about the food enough to the point I treared up a little in the locker room. I care so much about the food, the guest, and this restaurant. It feels like a lose/lose situation. I want to beat this station so badly. I don't know what you guys can tell me but I could use some wisdom
. I'm too stubborn to give up and I worked too hard to get to this point yet I can't win against this beast. It may sound like I don't have a great attitude but after weeks and weeks of constant ass beatings I can't really help it. Thanks for reading


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## rgm2 (May 28, 2011)

Well dude, I can say that I kinda feel your pain. I was being run into the dirt when i first started with the prep for my station. I found my feet by making a list of everything that I had to do and how long it took me to actually do the prep for those items... say slicing onions for this case... Then I broke that down to the tasks I did for slicing onions and figured out I spent most of my time on mes en place and clean up between tasks. 

It is one thing to make a list... it is another thing to plan ahead and instead of slicing onions for 2 minutes and spending 5 on the setup and break down... you can instead do 2-3 days of onions in 9-11 minutes or do 1 day in 7... it is up to you. I just know that it made a HUGE inpact for me.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Do Not Give Up!!!!!!!  It takes time. My God you're only 19. You might not get this opportunity again.

Get the mental stuff out of your head. A lot of chefs rule with the sharp stick in the eye routine. That's inexperience on

your chefs part by thinking that motivates people. That mental crap is taking up a percentage of your working focus.

As time goes on you will speed up as you mentally grow. HEY!!!! If he didn't see potential he would curse you out the

building. Take some time and go through these boards and you will find 100s of stories from chefs about what they went through coming up.

Just remember that anxiety is not coming from the task at hand.

Good Luck

Jeff


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

Oh man, please do not quit. In hard kitchens like the one you work in, this is totally normal. The best thing to do is to fight through it and keep doing the best you can. Trust me, most of the other cooks/chefs at the place you work have been in your position in one way or another. You WILL get a hold of your station, and you will look back on your time there as invaluable as you grow as a cook. 

What station do they have you on? How long have you been doing it? If you stay, gut it out, and learn as much as you can, this job can and will open doors for you down the road. Think of it as boot camp. 

Seriously, just double your resolve, stick it out, and you will get through it. We've all been there.


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## thetincook (Jun 14, 2002)

I don't want to tell you to 'toughen up, buttercup,' but well, you gotta toughen up. It's really easy to take all that stuff personally, especially at that age. I was, maybe still am, sensitive like that too. It would really throw me off my mental game. What really helped me was to pick out and focus on 1 or 2 things that went well that shift. We have a natural tendency to remember only the bad things that happen, and this affects our mindset.

I totally echo what every one else said. If you want to post more details about your station and prep, we could probably come up with specifics to help you out with time. Back in the 'day,' it was not uncommon to be expected to come in early to work unpaid for an hour or so just so you wouldn't drown. I'm not suggesting you do that.

I did a week long stage at Norman Van Akin's west coast outpost on Sunset Blvd here in Los Angeles (It's been closed for a while now) as part of an extended job interview. I got teamed up with the gardmanger girl. One of the signature dishes was summer rolls. Every day they had to be made fresh. By fresh, I mean every single component was done fresh every single day. Had to grate carrots by hand, etc. Even the fricking dry nori seaweed used for sprinkling had to be run through the pasta cutter each day. Talk about a lot of redundancy. It took up a major portion of time for something that maybe sold 10 - 15 plates a night on the week end (also had lots of wastage as the unsold rolls were tossed at the end of the night). My real bette noir was doing the amuse bouche every day. That was my responsibility during service as the stage. I'm a big guy, with big fat hands, so I don't do as well with small fiddly things. One night I had to make little three tiered shrimp toasts. I think the breads were 3/4" square. God that sucked, I was so slow. Also had to pit olives with a paring knife for some dish, FML.

Enough grandpa story time, lol.

My point is, work smarter, not harder. (Like you haven't been told that 100's of times, right?)

So yeah, water off a ducks back, don't take your work life home with you, cowboy up, don't let the b-tards grind you down, *generic platitude about perserverence*


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## abrams892 (Jun 10, 2011)

Of course I'm not going to quit. I worked too hard for this beating lol. My station is seperate from the main kitchen. It only has two people on it during service with a different menu than the main dining room. It is an open kitchen with a wood burning grill that has roast, and garnish. I'm basically the entrement (sp?). I do eleven pick ups most are 1 pan some are 3. There's so much mise for this station I need to make two trips with a deep lexan full of qt containers of different prep. We have a prep list that has the amount of something we have and the par amount we need to have. A lot of surprises tend to pop up. I'm going half an hr early today to get a head start. Along with the prep there's a ton of knife work and cooking daily to set the station up for service.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Does chef scream at you in front of others? or does he tell you on the side in private?  If he screams at you in front of others, he needs a course in management. One day down the line however you may look back and thank him for maybe making you better. You have to develop tough outer skin in this business. If in your heart you know that you are giving it your all and it's your best, then be content in yourself and confident. You will only get better. Time is a great teacher/


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## cosanostra (May 20, 2011)

Hey man.

I'll let you in on a little secret. I'm extremely tough on all my new guys. Why? Because I want to see how tough they are, how they handle pressure and whether they are here to work and learn or for some other reason. Once I think they'll fit in and are worthy of the time I'm going to invest in them (usually after 3-4 weeks) I ease up and have a little chat with them about why I have been riding them and what my plan for them is going to be for them to get as much out of working for me as they can.

Oh and get used to working under constant pressure, the chefs life is a constant battle against the clock and guess what, when you finally are able to get your prep list finished on time, I'm going to give you another couple of jobs to do. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif

The thing that stands out for me is when you said there is a lot of knife work. This is something that you get better at with time. I always teach my guys to get it right then get it fast. No one will realistically expect you to have great knife skills straight out of school. Your chef is just testing you to see what you're made of.


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## demo121 (May 16, 2011)

Yeah, sorry,  its a complete lose/lose situation on a daily basis. Given your situation; NYC, top of the line quality, fresh outta school, your screwed, you cant win. im NOT trying to be rude but it its all experience and its all your age. This guy is gonna beat your a$$ no matter WHAT you do, he lives for it. Im doing the same thing in DC but im in my 11th year and 8th kitchen, im still young by all standards but when you start at 15 almost 16 yrs old, its a little different for me right now. the really new guys who come to my kitchen with maybee one job or even no jobs and plan to just grind it out get beat on a daily basis. and a great many times i watch and chef just beats them if they are right or wrong, on time or late, it doesnt matter, you cant play the game well enough, he knows it and he is just gonna ride ride ride you. 

THE BRIGHT SIDE : : your there. your experienceing it, and it really doesnt matter if you are doing high class new york or turn and burn middle of the road, or just some really good french guy who has a really nice local joint, your still gonna get your a$$ beat, SOOOOO you might as well take advantage of it, take notes, draw plate ups, write down recipes, deconstruct flavor profiles on dishes, when you leave, you should have a 2" thick folder of loose paper with everything you did, because you cant remember it all, i PROMISE YOU, you cant remember it all. and 5-6 years from now, when you can hold your own on any line, you will be able to tell horrible stories to all your co-workers no matter their age or experience about all the stupid $hit you would do way back when, working for so and so. I do it ALLLLL the time, its just part of the game.  

the best thing you can do is get out of your head, and just grind, relax and try and make it happen, and if you cant get it done in 30 x-mins, show up 60 mins early, who cares. no one does anything cool in NYC before 10pm anyway. good luck with service tonight. 

-J.


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## abrams892 (Jun 10, 2011)

thanks for the advice guys. things are going smoother now. i started going in 30-45 minutes early and it makes a world of difference. i'll just keep grinding till i can't grind no mo'. i'm not gonna let this station or these sous chefs win.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

abrams892 said:


> thanks for the advice guys. things are going smoother now. i started going in 30-45 minutes early and it makes a world of difference. i'll just keep grinding till i can't grind no mo'. i'm not gonna let this station or these sous chefs win.


Remember, "Illigitumus non carborundum"!

(If I recall my HS Latin correctly, this roughly translates to "Don't let the ba$tard$ grind you down!") /img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

OK. I can't argue with anything said so far, but I'll tell you what I would do. I would think to myself and figure out if I really was doing the best I could for the situation. Is anyone else in the kitchen gonna do my job better than me? Am I doing the job well or do I need to adjust? Is what being said to me gonna change anything or just make the job suck? After figuring all of this out, I would have a conversation on the side either before opening or after closing with that chef doing the yelling at me. I would explain that yelling at me was causing me great difficulties. I would then see how it goes, and either ask him to help me improve, or tell him to STFU before I gigged him with a carving fork. I never could understand people that needed to yell and act tough just to see what happened.


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## cosanostra (May 20, 2011)

IceMan said:


> I never could understand people that needed to yell and act tough just to see what happened.


There is a difference between yelling and acting tough and upping the pressure to see how people respond. Also if you've just come from the current molly coddled state schooling system (in the UK anyway), kids are not used to people just being straight with them. I'm not talking about yelling and shouting abuse at them, but merely constructive criticism has some of them already close to tears. I'm sorry but I just can't be bothered with people who are so over-sensitive. If someone did a good job on something I'll tell them, if someone did a s**t job on something I'll tell them. When I go through something with someone for the third time and then they are still f***ing it up , I can feel my blood pressure start to rise and there may probably be some yelling involved. I try not to yell at anyone, especially the over-sensitive types, but sometimes......................................


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

First off, _"upping the pressure to see how people respond"_ is clearly a case of a boss with neither brains or self-security. Your only purpose is to see people fail so that when things do get hard you can blame it on someone else. Secondly, don't blame the rest of the world for the _"molly coddled state schooling system of the UK"_. I went to a very good school and I was treated professionally, nothing less. In my kitchens I always work with everyone as a team to get the job done beast as we can _(pun intended)_. As an example just as you used, I'll _go through something with someone_ three or four or five times if it helps insure that we don't get plates coming back. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong but I like my kitchen to run smooth, easy and clean the whole shift long. I don't need any unnecessary pressures causing any extra difficulties.


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## cosanostra (May 20, 2011)

IceMan said:


> First off, _"upping the pressure to see how people respond"_ is clearly a case of a boss with neither brains or self-security. Your only purpose is to see people fail so that when things do get hard you can blame it on someone else. Secondly, don't blame the rest of the world for the _"molly coddled state schooling system of the UK"_. I went to a very good school and I was treated professionally, nothing less. In my kitchens I always work with everyone as a team to get the job done beast as we can _(pun intended)_. As an example just as you used, I'll _go through something with someone_ three or four or five times if it helps insure that we don't get plates coming back. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong but I like my kitchen to run smooth, easy and clean the whole shift long. I don't need any unnecessary pressures causing any extra difficulties.


This doesn't make much sense to me to be honest. I don't think self-security makes much sense in that first sentence, do you mean self confidence or self esteem perhaps? Either way, from my experience a great deal of being a chef is how you can deal with pressure, so why would I hire someone without seeing whether I think they can handle it or not? I'm not talking about mental abuse here, just putting them under time pressure and making them realise the standard I'm looking for.

Why would I want them to fail? I wouldn't have offered them a job in the first place if I didn't think they could do well? If things go wrong in the kitchen It's me that gets the blame not anyone else. Do you really think I would pass the buck to a commis chef, and more importantly do you think the owners would buy that? Obviously not on both counts. The reason I am testing them in the first place is so that when I give them more demanding roles I and the rest of the team know we can rely on them.

I can't remember blaming the rest of the world for anything? Why would I give a s**t what school you went to? You clearly have more patience than me, I congratulate you. If I'm going through something for the 5th time with someone I'm seriously questioning whether they have some sort of special educational needs or something. The reason why I train people to withstand pressure is so that service does run smooth and easy. Train hard, fight easy and all that.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

Well OK. _"Self-security"_ was meant as having poor feeling of one's own opinion that if the staff under a manager's responsibility is weak it says something about their own skills to build a team of good performance. That person then tries to highlight others inabilities as a shield to protect them self of blame. Why would you hire anyone that you felt you needed to constantly test, making that staff member feel uncomfortable? Have not previously communicated your standards clearly enough? Do you have that much fear of being replaced? I prefer to just hire people I know are good in the first place. A good team shines on it's own without anyone taking a spotlight.

Your statement here expresses to me a blame on the culinary educational systems:

Quote:


> Also if you've just come from the current molly coddled state schooling system (in the UK anyway), kids are not used to people just being straight with them.


I know you will correct me if I'm inaccurate. Silly me, but I much rather have to explain things to staff so that they can get things right over the possibility of dishes coming back. My time and patience is much more economical than having dishes come back, and the customers not coming back.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

IceMan said:


> ...My time and patience is much more economical than having dishes come back, and the customers not coming back. ...


Hm, "dishes coming back"??

Why did they ever leave the kitchen in the first place?


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

Dishes come back because the expedition person won't let them go out. They get refused and sent back from the hot plate area.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

IceMan said:


> Dishes come back because the expedition person won't let them go out. They get refused and sent back from the hot plate area.


Ah, now I understand, from the reference to customers not returning, I mistakenly assumed they were being served to the customers, my mistake!


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## cosanostra (May 20, 2011)

IceMan said:


> Well OK. _"Self-security"_ was meant as having poor feeling of one's own opinion that if the staff under a manager's responsibility is weak it says something about their own skills to build a team of good performance. That person then tries to highlight others inabilities as a shield to protect them self of blame. Why would you hire anyone that you felt you needed to constantly test, making that staff member feel uncomfortable? Have not previously communicated your standards clearly enough? Do you have that much fear of being replaced? I prefer to just hire people I know are good in the first place. A good team shines on it's own without anyone taking a spotlight.
> 
> Your statement here expresses to me a blame on the culinary educational systems:
> 
> ...


Ok, ok. When I was talking about school I was talking about high school rather than culinary school. I wasn't trying to be a smart ass before, just trying to understand the point you were expressing. Why would my team's performance be weak? Like I said earlier, I take full responsibility for everything produced in the kitchen so how is this shielding me from blame? I give people plenty of chances, spend plenty of time with them but sometimes it just doesn't work out, maybe they need someone to hold their hand all the time. That's just not my style and it's not the kind of person I want working with me nor the type of chef I want leaving my kitchen when they decide to move on. I don't berate people, I don't call them names or try to belittle them. I "test" them because it is better in the long run for me, for my team and for them if we can ascertain early on whether they will be good for us and whether we will be good for them, or not.

I don't constantly test them, just the first few weeks. I don't want them to ever become comfortable. If they do then it's time to move on. I don't have some sort of magic dust I can use to instantly tell if they're going to be good or not. I assure you my standards are very clearly communicated and I try to train my staff so that they can become better than me, I get a real buzz when they go on to become very successful chefs in their own right. A head chef should always be king in their own kitchen, like it or not the spotlight is always on the head chef, I lead the team, that is my role within it. Am I replaceable? Everyone is, but I have a good enough track record not to be short of offers. My employers are lucky to have me, not the other way round. My chefs are lucky to work for me, not the other way round. Does this make me an arrogant jerk? Maybe. Do I care? No.

Who says I don't explain things to staff? Once a new team member has proven themselves to me and the rest of the team they are fully welcomed and are given responsibilities to match the level of trust I have in them. Do you really think I'm going to give someone anything important to do in those first few weeks? They are tested so that I know they don't need molly coddled, they don't need their hand held every minute of the day, they don't need anything explained to them 5 times and so because of this we have a very strong team. If you hire people that you need to explain things to 5 times, then may I suggest that perhaps you and not I are the one with the flawed hiring process. If you don't have the "self-security" to step into the spotlight, then why should a team follow your lead?

We clearly have very different strategies of running a kitchen but please don't be pompous enough to believe that only your way is the correct one.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

NO. customers don't get bad dishes. Sometimes however, dishes are sent back from customers that don't know how to order properly. We then try to educate them so they don't make these mistakes again in the future.

I guess I tried too hard before to make my point as PC as I could. I'll get past that now and just speak freely. No chef with any skill berates or challenges his staff _"just to see"_. To me that's just a punk acting like a boss. When people are pushed harder than they are capable, real nasty types of mistakes happen. Three(3) minutes late is much better than a re-fire, going so fast that things get dropped or spilled is wasteful and I'm not going to spend my time bandaging kitchen staff that cut themselves after trying to be just a little faster. Any chef that does that to his workers is an idiot. My original suggestion was that if this is being done to you, think it through and talk it out with the boss. Nobody should take a beating, they should get help.


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## cosanostra (May 20, 2011)

IceMan said:


> NO. customers don't get bad dishes. Sometimes however, dishes are sent back from customers that don't know how to order properly. We then try to educate them so they don't make these mistakes again in the future.
> 
> I guess I tried too hard before to make my point as PC as I could. I'll get past that now and just speak freely. No chef with any skill berates or challenges his staff _"just to see"_. To me that's just a punk acting like a boss. When people are pushed harder than they are capable, real nasty types of mistakes happen. Three(3) minutes late is much better than a re-fire, going so fast that things get dropped or spilled is wasteful and I'm not going to spend my time bandaging kitchen staff that cut themselves after trying to be just a little faster. Any chef that does that to his workers is an idiot. My original suggestion was that if this is being done to you, think it through and talk it out with the boss. Nobody should take a beating, they should get help.


I can agree with this, mostly. New hires in my kitchen are on the pass with me during service watching everything, doing nothing. They aren't in a position to make a mistake that would jeopardise the service in the first place. However I constantly push my staff to be better than they think they are capable of. I believe this is the best way of improving them, by showing them that a task they previously thought was impossible for them can now be completed. A few cuts trying to improve themselves is no big deal and is to be expected. If they are no better after having worked for me than before they came, then I have failed them.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

_*LOL.*_ This is cracking me up. _*TY*_ for that. You _""test" them because it is better in the long run"_, and you _"test them, just the first few weeks"_. OMG, how long does it take to figure things out? I test for the first shift, if things work out, then good, if not we look for an answer. I sure as sure don't want anyone testing me for any longer than that. What exactly, is at all wrong with being comfortable? Do you buy and wear uncomfortable shoes or use uncomfortable knives on purpose? I do my best work when I'm comfortable. Do you want to work with uncomfortable ovens or grill/stove tops where you get burned all the time? Who the hey wants a staff constantly on edge? Not me, I'm funny like that. I _PAY_ my staff. That is what motivates them to do things better. Please stop kidding yourself with the idea that anyone is lucky to have anyone else. With today's market and economy everyone is lucky to have employment, not at all the other way around; employment is not lucky to have you, me or anyone else. I'm not pompous in my beliefs, I'm just realistic in the way I operate.


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## greg (Dec 8, 1999)

Cosanostra and IceMan, how about the two of you just agree to disagree? This is starting to edge beyond being respectful of each other's viewpoints, so either tone it down or move on.


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## rgm2 (May 28, 2011)

You guys are funny. Making sure your staff is prepared is what it's all about. You just have different ways of doing that. One is a more military approach, the other is a more college style. Reality is that both work, and work well. The OP has someone with a more militaristic approach, like Cosa has. Cosa was giving him good advise in how to see the chef he has to work with. Ice, your approach would be better for me, but does not help the OP at all. If the OP does not like the militaristic approach Cosa takes then he needs to find a new kitchen. The main thing is that stress levels should drop the more comfortable you become with your station and the level of business your kitchen does. If the kitchen is all over the place in it's business then Cosa's approach has a ton of merit.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

I'm telling the OP to talk to the chef giving him the problem. Realize the situation. If there really is a problem, then deal with it. If he is being _"tested"_ because the chef feels some sort of need, then maybe tell the chef to back off because it's causing difficulties. I guess everything else was just conversation.


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## abrams892 (Jun 10, 2011)

The chef doesn't give any constructive criticism, nor is he testing me. He is in fact a jerk.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

abrams892 said:


> The chef doesn't give any constructive criticism, nor is he testing me. He is in fact a jerk.


Um, careful here, unless I'm grossly mistaken, s/he has a modicum more experience AND he controls your employment!

And for kickers, probably monitors ChefTalk /img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif

You're 19, fresh out of school, on your first "real job", and already you feel qualified to rate your boss? You know what "constructive criticism" is in the chef's mind as well as what s/he considers "testing"?

You may want to consider another line of work, IMHO


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## thetincook (Jun 14, 2002)

Aw, comon... We were all dumb headstrong know it all kids at 19.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

_*LOL.*_ Good point _*TinCook*_. I was 7 months into the NAVY when I was 19. I had _"dumb", "headstrong"_ and _"know it all"_ well worked out of me by then. All I was doing when I was 19 was listening to directions, following orders, breathing hard and trying to make it to the next day.


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## cosanostra (May 20, 2011)

IceMan said:


> _*LOL.*_ This is cracking me up. _*TY*_ for that. You _""test" them because it is better in the long run"_, and you _"test them, just the first few weeks"_. OMG, how long does it take to figure things out? I test for the first shift, if things work out, then good, if not we look for an answer. I sure as sure don't want anyone testing me for any longer than that. What exactly, is at all wrong with being comfortable? Do you buy and wear uncomfortable shoes or use uncomfortable knives on purpose? I do my best work when I'm comfortable. Do you want to work with uncomfortable ovens or grill/stove tops where you get burned all the time? Who the hey wants a staff constantly on edge? Not me, I'm funny like that. I _PAY_ my staff. That is what motivates them to do things better. Please stop kidding yourself with the idea that anyone is lucky to have anyone else. With today's market and economy everyone is lucky to have employment, not at all the other way around; employment is not lucky to have you, me or anyone else. I'm not pompous in my beliefs, I'm just realistic in the way I operate.


For me, in my experience I have found out that it's better if I give new hires a months probationary period to really get to know them and for them to really get to know us. It means both parties are making an informed decision at the end of this period. Why wouldn't I want to see what they are capable of during this period? The reason I do this is because I found that hiring people after only a day as you suggest was very hit and miss for me, some would work out and some wouldn't. This way every member of staff I've hired has been with me long term.

Also being comfortable, in my experience, starts to make people complacent, sloppy and demotivated. Surely there is a happy medium between being comfortable and being on edge? Obviously I pay my staff, but for me there has to be something more in it for myself and I like to see that in my brigade as well. I can make a lot more money doing another job as could they, so making sure that we are all achieving our personal goals and making sure that they are constantly learning is important to me. I felt very lucky to have certain chefs mentor me and invest a lot of their time in me when I was younger so I try to pass that on to the younger chefs that now work for me and hope when they are in chef positions of their own they will do the same. I would hate to have the attitude of "it's just a job" but I understand that we all have bills to pay and this certainly affects our decisions. Also here is another strategy I use that will horrify you. I always offer a really crap salary to start with so that I know they are not here solely for the money as they can easily get a higher paying job elsewhere. After a month I bump them up to the industry average.

Clearly we are very different people with very different management styles. Like Greg suggested, let's just agree to disagree on this one.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

I think the OP has been given some really good advice here.  All I can add is to go with your gut.  If you feel that this is right for you then go that extra mile to make it work.  If you really feel that it is not for you, get out and do something else.  There is no shame in saying that a kitchen was just not the right fit for you.   All the best to you and remember... you are young and there are so many possibilities out there for you.  Learn lots, write down everything and you will be that much better for every experience you have.


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## burroblanco (Jun 16, 2011)

as someone a few years further along the same path as you (not trying to sound condecending, im only 26, ive had 8 years working, 2 of them in manhattan for real dicks who sure could cook). i think you really just have to be reasonably confident in yourself, make sure your knife is sharp and you werent out drinking until 4 am in queens or something, listen to what youre being told, never make excuses for yourself (doesnt sound like you are), and have a good way to blow off steam after work. go for a run, find someone who can put up with your bellyaching, and make sure you take care of your body, its your best tool, and if youre not at 100% for a high pressure service, mistakes will happen. the best kitchens ive worked in were run by people with high expectations of me, and had no problems letting me know when i didnt live up to them. youre going to learn the most in those spots, as everyone has said. its much worse to have something to strive for than to be chomping on the bit in a half ass kitchen, trust me, thats where i am right now.


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## journeyman81 (Jun 16, 2011)

i work pantry/grill in high pressure kitchen somewhere between 200/300 covers any given night. i am a second semester student and have been pushing myself. i want to push myself through all the stations. tonight i was given a chance at the grill. as soon ass the rush hit i hit a confidence wall. i had one hamburger sent back and it pushed the line back. then i was pushed back into the pantry. i took it real personal and was real hurt that i failed. but got back into the grill before the night ended. it was a blow to my confidence. but to me my failures are what make me better. i love challenges and the fact that i couldnt live up to the challenge only made me want it more. it hurt i could not deliver but it also made me want to be better. i still have confidence in my ability its just the pressure that i need to improve on. i have watched all the other stations with great attention and always show up an hour or so early for my shift. its the criticism and pressure that push me to better. rather than put me down. you just have to remember why you do what you do. failure makes you stronger, just dont make the same mistakes twice. please note i am drunk


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## steelbanger (May 13, 2011)

Folks, don't get your jackets in a knot about this topic. It's a good one, for sure, and it gets all of us fired up, no matter what. I was at a garden party not two weeks ago having this same argument with a couple of colleagues from waaaay back - two of them just retired. You know, this is really a fundimental difference in philosophy. I don't think one is right over the other, as i have seen both positive as well as negative results with both approaches. I for one tend to be the "nurturing" kind - I'm no push-over, mind you, but I remember what I went through as a young apprentice, and I don't wish that on anyone. I was about the same age as you abrams, and my first post as entremetier (that's how it's spelled. In the old style of French cooking, the "entremets" were the starch and veg which was served between the roasts and whatever the next course was - entre met means "put inbetween - so much for French lessons...). I would wake up in cold sweats every night for weeks, and felt like bolting just as service would start. My chef was a very demanding man, and the dent in the side of the walk-in cooler reminded all that he had a habit of throwing frying pans. I learned to duck... My sous was the excat opposite. A gentle, happy sort from Bavaria who was very good at his job and understood to tech me without shouting or being rude. I learned more from him than from chef. That approach works for me, but I'm sure some learn better if they are put under pressure. I didn't need chef to put more pressure on me than was already on me running this station, so I appreciated the sous patience. Mind you, by all accounts my work was not in need of correction. Different story if the work is shoddy, because we all know it's the chef who gets blamed if things don't go right. One of my chefs once told me that each plate leaving the kitchen had his name on it (it actually did. It was in the glaze, part of the design of the plate) and he did't care who made it, the customer thought he was the one responsible. That's also a lot of pressure to bear. So, either way, there is something to be said for both approaches. The one's I can't stand are one's who have gotten so used to screaming and belittling their staff, they can't do it any other way anymore, and they're not getting results anymore. I had teachers in highschool like that, too. The one's I respect are those who get the results, and have their staff sweat just by a certain look, a tone of voice, a gesture. Now THAT'S control...

Respect for all, over all.


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## jimmy43 (Jun 28, 2011)

stay with it

i'm a 42 yr old chef back in the buisness after 5 yrs . off.I struggle sometimes and believe me ther are times I want to walk,but I don't give up.

It sounds like you have the passion, and that counts for alot.You will get through this...don't give up!!


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## chefmagnum (Jul 7, 2011)

f*** that,.give up. it's the worst paying job ever. especially for an older guy. read anthony bourdains latest book where he says he won't hire older guys because they are too set in their ways and can't take instruction from a younger guy. copy that.I am sorry I ever got into it. I want to get out and do something else so I can actually make a f***ing living for a change; F*** the passion you allegedly have. executive chefs that make a hundred grand a year have been doing it for 30 years at least most of which started cooking at 16. are you in that bracket? not likely. you have to be able to make a living. and this is the worst industry for that.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

Steelbanger said:


> The one's I can't stand are one's who have gotten so used to screaming and belittling their staff, they can't do it any other way anymore, and they're not getting results anymore


This sentence is why I left a very well paying KM job to go back to being a breaky cook and and the cook at an emergency hot meal program run by a local urban Ministry. I'm sorry but no one should have to tolerate the abuse that is so rampant in our business and something has to give soon...


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## jedimind (Jul 9, 2011)

abrams892 said:


> thanks for the advice guys. things are going smoother now. i started going in 30-45 minutes early and it makes a world of difference. i'll just keep grinding till i can't grind no mo'. i'm not gonna let this station or these sous chefs win.


you got the right idea, show up as early as you possibly can (after lunch clears out, when you're done with school/another job, whatever). i used to work one or two hours off the clock at a hard kitchen for around a year before i started taking on some sous-like responsibilities, like making prep and order lists and training new cooks.


abrams892 said:


> The chef doesn't give any constructive criticism, nor is he testing me. He is in fact a jerk.


ive felt like this too before, but after a while you will likely build your working relationship with eachother and find respect..you might feel bad having said stuff like this when you first started...then again, i said these things at that same hard kitchen in the beginning.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

And there are many occassions where young guys won't hire older guys because they are insecure and afraid the older guy will take their job or show them up. When I was in my 50s I had a position where all the young guys after screwing things up would come over to me and ask me ""How do you fix it"""  I gave them credit for asking, as this is called LEARNING.


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## steelbanger (May 13, 2011)

leeniek,

sounds like you found your niche. Sometimes it takes a wake-up call to get where you really want to be. Are you happy where you are? Does your job give you a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment? In the end, that's all what counts. We tend to get so hung up about being the best and most respected, highest paid, etc. etc. but when it comes down to it, what did you accomplish for yourself? I know one of the most famous chefs in Europe, whose name I won't mention, and he told me that all this fame and fortune only caused him to be a nervous wreck, cost him his wife and children, and he nearly ended up in jail for getting caught with cocaine in his posession. So much for fame and fortune. it still can't buy you happiness...


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

Thanks, Steelbanger.  All of us have different abilities and goals and where one person is comfortable the next one is not. I did my first shift at the shelter (soup kitchen) today and I just loved it but I'll save the details for a separate post.


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