# Tattoo problems in culinary school?



## martink

I am enrolled to start culinary studies in Sydney ,Australia in July. I am from Los Angeles and I have heard of students having problems with teachers and culinary schools in regards to being tattoo'd. I have full sleeved arm tattoos and some on my hands. What is the deal with teachers and schools having such a problem with this? As so many chefs have multiple tattoos. I can understand if i was working on a buffett line at a wedding. But for school... Give me a break. You would think they would just be happy with the high tuition they just got. Any input on this?


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## anneke

It would make no difference in my hiring practices, so I don't see why an instructor should make a big deal of this either. It's one thing if you are a lawyer with a pierced tongue/eybrow, but a chef? 

Hold on: you don't have obscenities tatooed on your eye lids, do you?


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## foodpump

Big deal, very big deal. The student represents the school, and students usually find jobs in the hospitality industry. 

I don't have a problem with tatoos that are covered , but on exposed areas--hands, face, neck, I have a large problem. Behind the line is one thing, but when serving customers, tattoos have a nasty habit of turning customers off, and turned off customers don't come back and don't say why they don't come back. Money and reputation lost for a splotch of ink that will look like cra* on that person's body in 20 or so years. For fun and edification go to your local old folk's home-- or give your elderly parent a bath and see what a 60 yr old tatoo looks like on a 80 yr old body. But I digress... 

The second problem is that tatoos are designed for one, and only one thing--to attract attention. Why does this person want to attract attention to his hands/face/neck?


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## adamm

alot of schools want to practice the highest of profesionlism. Im pretty sure the rule at my school was girls werent even allowed to wear ear rings in the kitchens even studs. schools have an image they want to maintain. I know of a 5 star resort that took externs from my school and they didnt want people of have tatoos where you could see them. you may never work at one of those places but rules are rules.


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## ras1187

While I might argue about the enforcement of professional standards at the big name schools, it appears this is something they take seriously.

As a student, you are expected to follow the same levels of professionalism as an employer would have. For the hospitality industry, it has generally been deemed that visible tattoos are not professional.

Essentially its simple, foillow the rules, or don't go. Sounds like a bad deal, but I don't make the rules.


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## bughut

Whats the big deal. It's not a hygene issue. I can see how some folk lined up at a buffet might be offended, but it's not going to stop them eating is it? I could understand if your line looked like a bunch of tattoo'd hairy greasers, but anyway i'm biased. My 2 chef sons are well tattooed. And theyre damned good at what they do.
I'm booked myself for a wee tribal on the wrist tomorrow (read today AArgh)
Like i say, whats the big deal?


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## rsteve

Yes, for some, it will stop them.


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## anneke

So what are you going to do: refuse them admission? Our professional uniform covers everything from the neck down except the hands. Beyond that, any tatoos showing (face/neck) is their own mistake they'll have to live with.  

I don't see it as a big deal as long as everything is clean and piercings are removed. Frankly I'm outrage at the lack of hygiene of the average cook much more than their tatoos...

Lynn Crawford is a great chef, currently the exec chef of the 4 Seasons in NY. She's done lots of television up in Canada, was on Iron Chef. She has a couple of large, odd-looking tats in the palms of her hands (ouch!). But the rest of her looks so professional, I can't imagine anyone objecting to her appearance and calling her unprofessional.


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## remie

I think for some it would really matter along with the hygiene of the person. Culinary is all about cleanliness and order. If you have tattoos already then they can't do anything about it anymore, right?? You just have to make sure that you will prove to them that your not all "dirty" you know and stuff like that.


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## tessa

generally , i have two tattoos but they are not visible generally and i also have a nose peircing , which i wear a dainty little stud thats discreet and two peircings in my ear lobes, which i wear studs and sleepers with no problems
there is a japanese guy in another class and when we are not in chef whites we are in a white shirt black pants, black vest black tie uniform, its been very warm here at the moment and he wears short sleeved shirts and he has very colourful tattoos down to his wrists, He doesnt seem to have been told off about them as he still wears short sleeves. 
I think it would really depend on what the tattoos are and if they contain bad language or not. If the school has a prob with you having tattooed hands what about wearing disposable gloves when you work

Tattoos on your hands can give a bad impression sometimes, in our conservative industry , people might think it was crime related in some way maybe , but i dont genereally see any kinds of probs with tattoos normally

good luck with your school


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## foodpump

The whole thingee about tattoos is not what you think or feel about them, it's what your employer thinks about them. Actually, it's what your employer's customers think about them.

This topic has come up on other sites, most noteably about a young man with facial tattoos. He had excellent skills and attitude and all that, but it was patiently explained to him that he would experience some difficulty in finding the job he wanted.

This is not illegal, not to hire a person with tattoos. The tattoo-ee was not born with them, wasn't tattooed at birth or tattooed with a gun pointed to his/her head, it was a clear and conscious decision on his/her behalf, and only they can take the responsibility for this decision.

Keep it covered up and know one knows are cares. When it is visibile on your face/hands/neck most employers will want to know why you want to display this, and what kind of problems they can anticipate from you.

Like I said before, tattoos are desiged for one, and only one thing: To attract attention.


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## shakeandbake

The OP is not debating whether or not kitchen staff can be tattooed, his/her issue is with schools. I agree each employer has the right to staff as they see fit, but I don't think a school should discriminate and deny enrollment to a student based on their tattoos...unless they contain content or words that are socially unacceptable/offensive. I'm assuming schools would include tattoo discussion as part of the training, since it obviously can limit some employment opportunity. 

I think folks who are heavily tattooed already have come to terms with the employment issue. I have tattoos and I'm planning more.


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## andy009g

You shouldn't have any problems with tatoos, if you have some hide them


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## ras1187

The school makes the rules and enforces them. That's pretty much the bottom line. Just as employers can be picky about their applicants, schools can be too (at least for now). I have been put in situations where I did not agree with the rules, but pretty much I either had to follow along or choose to go elsewhere.


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## skaiwalker

The rule are the rule.. we cant ignore them.


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## chef.esg.73

Rules are rules, period.......I have many tatoos also, I literely had them measured to my chef coats so that they can't be seen......

Suit for a interview $2,00.00

Briefcase and leather planner $400.00

The look on a owners face when he walks in my office for the first time and sees me in a t-shirt.....PRICELESS :smiles:

Mind you I have tatoos up and down my arms, shoulders, and legs. I will not hire any one with expossed tatoos........


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## oregonyeti

Hah hah :bounce:

Way to go, ESG.73 :roll:

I'm not into ink but you gave me a good laugh.


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## bughut

Why would you not?


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## chef.esg.73

It is nothing personal, again I have several covered up tattoos...When your guest are paying $100.00 to $3,000.00 a head for service..*It is my experience and opinion only, not a fact.*.Most people do not get that tatoos are an expresion of yourself thru art(tattoos) They look at people with tattoos as negative people...people think just because you have ink you either have been to prison or on drugs or a biker....*They dont understand the food we just served them is as much art, as the tatoos on our bodies.....*People first judge you on what they see, because thats all they have to go by...Then once they know you, the tattoos mean nothing to them...right or wrong its human nature....

*The most important thing that everyone in our bussiness depends on is that the guest will return again, *as much as I do what I do because I love it, I also love money, and tattoos frighten most people...Myself i do alot of high end catering for alot of people *who think their that important*, and they are shuned by tattoos....And I want them to feel as comfortable as I can make them, its my job, period...I may be in the bussiness of hospitality but im also in the bussiness of making money.....

It may be A BAD JUDGEMENT CALL ON MY PART, but I'm sticking with my policy...No exposed tattoos that can be seen by guest.. Cover your whole body. I'll probally like you more, but your not helpping pay for my kids, the guest is..Were in customeer service not the carpenters union...AND THATS MY FINAL ANSWER, RIGHT OR WRONG I'M STAYING WITH IT.....I really hope this does not offend you, may you have many blessings in your life.....


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## oregonyeti

In my trade you dress professionally. Tatoos and piercings are part (or actually not part) of the professional appearance. I could blame the customers but where would that leave me??? There is no law saying that customers are required to come back.

I wear my work clothes for work, and I dress as I want when off work. Tatoos are permanent dress if they are visible, and in a lot of cases I think it's inappropriate.

My opinion . . tatoos can be a personal or a public thing. There is a difference between the two.


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## chef.esg.73

*Again Just My Opinion:*

*I'm going to assume your not in the food bussiness by that statement you just provided....*

*In my field it is the law that guest return, I mean only if you want to keep your job....*

*Again Just My Opinion, take it or leave it...*

*If it don't apply, let it fly...*


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## oregonyeti

LMAO :bounce:


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## chef.esg.73

LOL...I'm glad you cook for fun hope you enjoy it..

I wish you good blessings and great dishes


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## rsteve

chef.ESG.73 and I are totally on the same page. 

If your attire and demeanor; including tattoos and piercings, influence prospective customers to spend their money elsewhere, you are history.

Any way you shake the maracha, the food business/hospitality industry is hard labor. To bust your butt producing fine cuisine, only to have customers decline to return to your establishment because they perceive a negative/hostile attitude by staffs' tattoos is both emotionally and financially defeating.


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## bughut

I own a successful catering business, Both ***tion work and business hospitality. I've just had a tribal tattoo done on the side of my left wrist 3 inches long that i absolutely love. (been putting it off for years) I'm getting comments and interested looks. I'm a reasonably well turned out, professional 50 year old and i dont much care what folk think, although i'm not out to shock. No way. I've no doubt some folk dissaprove but business is good, so no problem. Just because one is into body art surely doesnt mean they are a bad employee/caterer/employer.


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## chef.esg.73

Ofcouse I'm not sayn people with tattoos are bad employees...I have a bunch of tattoos...That would be like sayn I s-ck....What I'm sayn is, its the general publics view...

Plus, you can do what ever you want, you own the company. I don't...

I have people to answer to.....*I was told years ago, as important as it is to make great food for your guest to enjoy, if you can't make your boss money, don't expect next weeks paycheck...... *


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## kzoo1

It's a sad fact that you WILL be judged for the way you look. I don't agree with it, but it's something that we all face. As to the school, you have to remember that when you wear their logo, you're advertising for them. You have to represent the school at it's best and most professional and, unfortunately, many people don't think that tattoos send a good message. It's nothing personal, and there's a very good chance that you're instructors have tattoos themselves, it's just that they have to enforce the standards set by the school. I've known some amazing chefs that were covered in tattoos, and some of them worked for very conservative restaurants. They rolled their sleeves on the line, but when they had to go table side or if they were at an event, you could bet that their sleeves were rolled down and they had taken every step to look professional.
It's a real kick in the butt that we have to worry about someone else's silly misconceptions, but it's a fact. No matter how talented you are, how fast and clean you work, how dependable you are; the guests don't care. They don't know anything about you except what they see and if they don't like what they see (and that's all up to them) well, there you go.
I hope everything works out for you in Sydney, and that you don't let this little set back get you down. Good Luck!


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## ras1187

Well the problem is not with being able to cover up tattoos, if nobody can see them, nobody can judge. I think the problem lies in that in that he has tattoos in areas that he cannot cover.


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## jim berman

You said it all. Have ink or not; show them off, or not; flaunt your piercings or not. Whatever you decide, just realize going into it, that your actions may trigger a series of events that are may not neccesarily go in your favor. I have 6 tattoos and you would never guess it. They are well hidden and belong to me. If we met, you would never guess. However, I keep them to myself and that works for me. (My avatar is actually my most recent piece!)


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## blueicus

If a university doesn't offer admittance based on whether or not one has tattoos I don't see why culinary school should. Hiring is a different matter entirely, of course.


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## blagueur

This sounds like the mid year intake for the Sydney campus of Le Cordon Bleu Australia. Would this be right?

Two things here. One, is that what you've heard is, well, hearsay. Have you inquired as to what you've heard is true? It may well be it's the students that are having problems with getting used to professional standards.

Two, you are about to hit a culture that is _vastly_ different from your own. Be prepared to be taken out of your comfort zone and encounter things that will be totally alien to you. What is accepted where you are won't be accepted here and vice versa.

What you may have heard is the response elicited by some students with regards to on site presentation. A lot of people are averse to rules. After all, our 'MTV, sex, burger and fries' society teaches us that no rules equals personal freedom. As such, people feel certain rules encroach on their personal rights but fail to pinpoint the fact that with anything in life, there is a modicum of responsibility required too. Others have already mentioned what these are in relation to professional cooking so I won't revisit them.

If that's the way it is in your backyard then that's cool. But you take a walk around Sydney and you'll be hard pressed to find any chef in a half decent restaurant with tattoos that you can see.

The reality in Australia is that things are done very differently here with regards to training. It's not the done thing to skip off to culinary school and expect a career. Bottom line is, mate, people won't give a toss how much you paid for your classes. Domestic students as well as their international counterparts spend just as much as you do going through the apprenticeship system which is very competitive and standards are world class. Culinary school is very much considered the second option. If you don't think you'll be able to hack this then it might be worth considering staying where you are :lips: But if you want a challenge and a very good education then grasp this amazing opportunity, hook in, abide by the rules and you're in for a bloody good time.


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## lizabu

There's an easy solution to this problem. Just cover them up. There's a make up called Dermablend which will work on the neck or face. It can cover up just about anything. For the hands it probably wouldn't be such a good idea as the makeup could rub off, maybe wear gloves...I dunno. Good luck and don't worry too much, maybe its not as bad as you heard.


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## jenni1912

I don't think that you should be discriminated against because of tattoos. People have them all the time now - it doesn't take away from your cooking ability :smoking:


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## yorvo

I've been in the field over 20 years and I am heavily tattooed. I was not when I started. My collection grew over the years. This should be a sign for you. You're already experiencing problems with your tattoos and you're not even out of school. There will be plenty of places in your life that will not hire you because of your tattoos. Get used to that. The exception is when you are a dazzling chef. But if you're still in school there's no way you are. 

Your hands being tattooed at such a young age is a sign of disrespect to tradition. Jeez, isn't that why we get tattooed in the first place. That said, it is possible. I was Ex Chef at a hip local place and the fact that I had exposed tattoos made people curious. I walked through the dining room every night. People liked it. It all depends on where you work and how good your food is. And how good your tattoos are.

If you want to do your own thing then do your own thing. You can open your own place. Be your own boss. But the customer will still have the final say.

Kind of funny after over 20 years in the biz I gave it up. And for what? Now I'm a tattoo artist. I can look how ever I want.


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## blueicus

Although I'm typically pretty libertarian with regards to what people should do there will be places (like large luxury cruise or hotel chains) that enforce and outline strict dress and grooming codes (like the place I'll be working at), not only for supposed safety reasons but for professional reasons as well. The ban on visible tattoos is just one of them.

As a result it stands to reason that some/most culinary schools would enforce similar dress codes... though really, just because a bank requires one to go to work in a suit doesn't mean they had to go to school wearing a suit.


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## ras1187

New Exec. Chef, he made everyone shave.

I didn't like it, but rules are rules.


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## lymanchef

I am a chef with tattoos myself however none of mine r visible. However I agree that visible tats r unprofessional and that is what really matters the school that I went to taught that talent means nothing if you can't uphold the professionalism of our industry


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## dgcooks

if they're going to take your money, they shouldn't care what you look like.


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## joshspyker

Now that a real funny rule! Never heard of anythin like that here in HK..!


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## chef sarah

This thread started a while back, but I just thought I'd add my 2 cents.

I've heard this mentioned a few times when I read through the replies.
The schools do want you to uphold a certain level of professionalism inside and outside of school. During school (well at mine anyways) you get to do an internship - doing so you are still a student of said school and dressing inappropriately to offend clientele means the school is not teaching appropriate grooming/hygiene applied to the culinary profession. Because of that the school will develop a poor reputation and when employers learn that their interviewee is from said school they will not be looked upon very highly

I have a tattoo... about a 5" lotus on my right forearm. I got it a year ago during my first semester of school. No one even knew I had it until I rolled up my sleeves when washing dishes one day at school. For me... most people absolutely love my tattoo that have had the chance to catch a glimpse of it. I spent a nice deal on the little piece because I knew it would be there for a while and I wanted to enjoy it. But even still I keep it covered up, all of the time. It also really depends on what sort of tattoo it is.... If I am washing dishes I don't have to worry about it being covered up. When I am outside of the kitchen it is covered up though. But when students with grotesque images, nude images or swear words on them are admitted they are admitted based on the fact that they usually agree to cover it up 24/7 with make-up or whatever.

The one thing I did not agree with was the person that said tattoos are gotten to attract attention. I would totally disagree with that line due to the fact I got mine solely as a personal remembrance of a choice I made. If it were meant to attract attention I'd wear my sleeves rolled up 24/7 and everyone would know I have it.


But to get back to the tattoo schpiel in school.
They want you to look "professional". When you wear your uniform you represent your school... and I would think when you graudate later on you would expect the incoming new students to do the same. You don't want to interview with an employer that finds out you come from a school with a huge disregard to personal hygiene and appearance do you? That is just going to make you look bad. When you get out of school they want you to be marketable - as far as being able to go out and find a job.

They are also preparing you and helping you establish good hygiene and appearance habits so you are not thrown into some sort of shock when you start working.


Someone mentioned that when hiring a banker employers don't look at whether or not they wore a suit through school. But, hey! If you look at it this way - wouldn't you rather hire someone that takes their career seriously enough to prepare themselves and develop good person hygiene and appearance skills over someone that did not really care going through school? If you ask me... the people going through other careers where they have no dressing requirements are missing out on developing real life working habits.


Take it or leave it... that is my opinion and hopefully it makes sense.

:bounce:


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## foodpump

You're right, it is an old thread, and I still stand by what I said.

Last Christmas, I was at a relative's and played a game of chess with my then 6yr old niece. She knew enough to move the pieces and had a good idea of the game, but I caught her cheating--she moved one of my pieces.
She insisted she didn't, and I said maybe the cat moved my bishop. A few moves later and she does it again. Try as I might to convince her that she moved my piece when I was talking to someone, she would not hear of it. About then, everyone else sat down for dinner.

A tattoo is not imaginary, not a mental image, but a physical one, even if it is hidden. It is there, like a ring on a finger--it's sole purpose is to attract attention: Yours only, or whomever you choose to show it to. It's sole purpose is to attract attention--even if you are only washing dishes......


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## ed buchanan

Very well stated. I would add 1 thing , in the dining room and on buffet line, Look, Eye Appeal and Presentation are things that count and that impress guest. If you want or have tatoos cover them at work.:bounce:


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## the tourist

As much as I dislike tattoos and piercings, you either have to roll with the times or be crushed by them.

I've sharpened in a kitchen where the place was extremely quiet. But when that same kitchen had their head chef quit without warning, their top sous-chef took over. He liked deafening rock n' roll.

I don't have a single tattoo, which might seem odd to many who have met me. However, my dress and discourse make my views very clear. And, yes, it turns some people off.

But our society has so many strata of political views, forms of dress, ethnic influences and now "ink" that I wonder if the subject carries any weight, at all.

For example, within less than a decade, my guess is that every individual in a kitchen (including some from cordon bleu style culinary schools) will have tattoos, they will be able to twitter with one hand, and will be able to quote chapter and verse all of the cheat codes from 'Halo' and 'Grand Theft Auto.'

This is the way it has always been. The adults freak over the youth, and the youth prove them wrong every time.


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