# Salmon Questions



## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Yesterday I bought a couple of frozen Alaskan salmon filets at Trader Joe's - first time. I noticed that under the skin there was a layer of greyish flesh - looked pretty unappetizing. What is that grey stuff? Is it harmful or unhealthy? BTW, I was not at all happy with the taste/texture of the salmon.

Also, has anyone tasted Loch Duart salmon from Scotland. I've heard that it's very high quality. It can be purchased at a market in San Francisco - and that's the only place in the area that I know of it being available. It's a long drive to SF just to pick up a piece of fish. Does anyone know of another place in the San Francisco Bay Area that this fish can be purchased? I'll check with my regular fish guy when I next see him ....

shel


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## shipscook (Jan 14, 2007)

Gosh shel so sorry to hear that!! the gray is actually fat and as we know good fat! When I serve a fillet, I simply place that side down, it isn't real purty. I usually prefer to serve steaks, not a problem there.

but, what kind of salmon was it? that would make a big difference in taste and texture.

I eat salmon several times a week and often frozen.

Nan


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Glad to know that the grey stuff is OK ... I've never noticed it on the fresh fish I get from the local shops I frequent.

The salmon was labeled as Wild Alaskan Sockeye. I prepare salmon very simply - generally just poach it - it's always so delicious. This was a disappointment, although the price was about 1/3 that of the salmon from my fish guys. Anyway, it tasted nothing like the fresh salmon I got when in Alaska, and really didn't compare with the fish guys' salmon.

scb


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## blueicus (Mar 16, 2005)

That grayish layer of fat is prevalent on the fatty/pinkish varieties of fish (such as trout or char or salmon) and you can see that if you take a skin-on side of fish or a whole fish and filet and skin it yourself you will notice this layer of grayish meat between the primary flesh and the skin.


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## shipscook (Jan 14, 2007)

shel, I think you just got a poor piece of fish. I am lucky here to be able to get fresh salmon most of the year. But oh my do we pay for it!!!

I get frozen Alaska sockeye at the Safeway here when fresh is not available or I am feeling frugel. I think I would ask for credit or a replacement??

I usually just put my cast iron grill pan under the broiler, get it hot, brush with a tad of olive oil and broil to just a bit over medium rare.

had a little fresh sockeye roast last week, stuffed it with carmalized leeks, some fennel pollen and a bit of preserved lemon. Good Stuff!!

Better luck next time,
Nan


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Shel, I agree with the others. You either lucked out with a poor piece of fish, or you defrosted it incorrectly. Most frozen fish, nowadays, is as good or better than so-called fresh.

Another possibility: You have, in the past, bought coho or chinook, and the sockeye has a different texture and flavor? That's a guess, as the only sockeye I've ever eaten came out of a can. 

I'm not familiar with the Loch Duart brand, particularly. But if it's from Scotland it is likely Atlantic salmon; not the Pacific salmon you are used to.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Couple of things:

I'd love to be able to broil things in my current kitchen, however, the current stove is a 79-cent POS, and to use the broiler I have to practically crawl on the floor as the broiler (such as it is) is located below the oven. It doesn't even have a temperature setting or a way to adjust the distance from the heat.

I've had frozen salmon in AK - fish that had been caught the year before. It was DELICIOUS! In all cases the fish was frozen by the people who caught it or the restaurants that served it - not by big commercial outfits or supermarket chains. I got to AK before the salmon season - but once the season opened the fish I got was even more delicious. I'd move to AK just for the salmon and the halibut!

I'm going to try another piece of fish from TJ's and give it a taste.

Leeks and salmon make a great combination. Yummmmy!

Thanks for all your help and suggestions, Nan.

scb


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Well, I know it was properly defrosted. I've had several varierties of salmon in the past, chinook and sockeye included.

Yeah, I understand about Loch Duart being Atlantic salmon, however, the reports I've gotten on it indicate that it's exceptional. I've gotta try it at least once. I've had Atlantic salmon in the past, and what I've had has been a disappointment. However, I wonder if the salmon from different areas taste different? Isn't there more than one type of Atlantic salmon?

scb


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

No, Shel. Unlike Pacific salmon, of which there are five major species, there's only one Atlantic salmon. 

There are, however, different populations, and that could account for differences in flavor. It certainly makes a difference in size. Other factors might be the time of year and location of the catch. "You are what you eat" applies to fishes as well as people. 

I've had fresh Atlantic salmon from a market. And fresh Atlantic salmon I've caught myself. Although it's not bad, I understand why its reputation is based on it being smoked. 

As a sport fish on a flyrod, Atlantic salmon is unsurpassed. Plus, of course, after God made the earth he looked around and put a salmon stream in all the prettiest parts. 

But as a culinary treat----well, there are other things I'd choose first.


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

Is seafood frozen on shore? I thought all frozen seafood was frozen on the boat . . . ?

By the way, here in Oregon we have landlocked sockeye salmon we call kokanee.


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## novice_01 (May 6, 2008)

What's the difference between a salmon steak and a salmon filet?


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## shipscook (Jan 14, 2007)

a fillet is cut on the length of the fish, cutting around the collar and then along the backbone from top to tail, turn over, grip tail and cut along the backbone again. with the right knife, an excellent edge and practice, the bone is pretty clean. You will have some rib bones, pull those out with needlenose pliers. remove skin or not. Most people leave it on for grilling to hold flesh together.

To steak, remove fins, choose thickness you want and cut through backbone. I prefer steaks, I think the skin and bones add flavor.

This is actually something l learned from fishermen, not sure it totally the proper way?
Nan


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## novice_01 (May 6, 2008)

I wouldn't be cutting the fish into a steak or filet but am wondering (when I go to the store to buy the fish) whether one is preferred over the other.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Neither is better. Much depends on how you choose to cook it. Steaks are easier to handle for people who aren't good at handling fish gently or preventing it from sticking. If you're new to cooking fish (and your question suggests you are), steaks are a great way to start!

One nice way to prepare a steak for cooking is to take a sharp knife, put the tip in next to the back bone, then trace along the ribs and free them from the meat. Do this on both sides, and remove the back bone and ribs. Then roll one "leg" of the steak around the other and use a piece of twine to tie the whole thing in a tight circle. This allows the wonderful belly meat (from those legs), which is very rich and tasty to cook at the same rate as the rest of the salmon. If you have a good fish-monger ask her to do this for you and watch while she does it, so you can do it for yourself the next time. In any case, it's easy enough to do even from a description as basic as mine.

Another is to leave the bones in the steak and simply grill it. The legs will become more well done than the rest of the fish -- but don't worry, they can take it. The belly is loaded with salmon fat, which not only tastes wonderful but is loaded with Omega 3 and is very good for you. 

Try not to overcook salmon. Most people like it cooked between medium and medium-well. While a few prefer it between medium and medium-rare. While it's easy to tell when a fillet is cooked by looking, the only good way to test a steak is by touch. Press your fingers gently into the meat near the backbone, and when the salmon pushes back (on both sides) it's medium medium-rare. An extra minute on each side will take it to medium medium-well. This sounds a lot more uncertain than it is. 

BDL


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## bughut (Aug 18, 2007)

I was told the grey strip was the blood line - where the blood settles when the fish is killed. I dont like it and always remove it, though i know folk who dont mind it attall.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

I just read over the thread and saw the conversation regarding the gray strip under the skin. It is indeed the bloodline and has a soft texture and a very fishy taste. On top of that it overcooks almost instantly emphasizing its too fishy character. It's "V" shaped, very shallow and easy to remove from any skinned salmon. If the piece is left skin-on and the diner eats the skin with the fish, (s)he probably won't notice it. 

This is how I eat salmon and if I can manage to keep the skin on with the fish I never notice the bloodline. But if I can see it, I don't like it. Just goes to show how much we eat with our eyes.

BDL


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## bazza (Apr 2, 2007)

I eat a lot of salmon and the grey part never bothered me. Now I know what it is....I don't like it LOL


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

>One nice way to prepare a steak for cooking is to take a sharp knife,....<

BDL left one part out of his otherwise excellent description of trussed salmon steaks. Before rolling the legs, carefully loosen the skin from them (as if you were fileting just the legs). Then roll one leg inside the other, as he describes. Wrap the skin flaps around the outside, then tie into the round shape.

What yo will wind up with is a disk that is all salmon flesh, wrapped in a ring of skin. 

Trussed steaks make a pleasing presentation, well worth the effort. And they also make for more even cooking, because the legs cook at the same rate as the loins. Plus the fatiness of the legs infuses into the loin meat, making up for the flavor lost when you removed the bones. 

All in all, a great way to prepare fish steaks; one that works for any fish that can be steaked, not just salmon.


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## novice_01 (May 6, 2008)

You're right - I have almost no experience in cooking. I'm already lost in the cutting of the fish. Is a salmon steak something I can purchase already pre-cut, so I don't have to do any cutting or separating or anything?


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

My bad. I made it seem harder for you than it is. You can buy salmon steaks already cut. If you buy from a fish-monger, they'll be happy to cut the bones out of the steak and tie it in the way I described. If you're buying from a supermarket that doesn't do much cutting, they might not custom cut the fish for you.

If not, don't let it bother you. Just learn to season and cook the steaks to the stage you like them. If you're not much of fish eater yet, that's probably medium-well. If you're a salmon lover, that's probably medium.

What's the difference? Well, if you cut into a medium done piece of salmon, there will be a _very small _section in the middle that's still shiny, soft and slightly underdone. Medium-well, and that bit's gone. Well, which is not good means try fish that flakes open very easily. A generation or two ago, Americans were taught to cook fish until it flaked. Don't. Not only will it taste bad, but it will be so dry that it will stick to your teeth. Yucch! No wonder some people don't like fish!

I know I said this before, but it bears repitition: If you cook salmon steaks under the broiler, you'll notice that the skinny legs (belly) cook faster the big, meaty section around the backbone. Those parts can handle being cooked more well done than any other part of the salmon, because there's comparatively more salmon fat around them. Don't worry about the word "fat," when it's in the context of salmon. It's delicious and very healthy, too.

Because of changes wrought by over-fishing, global warming, and the Bush administration's water policies in the west, this year's Pacific salmon run will be very reduced in the species of salmon most preferred. The only wild salmon available at anything like a decent price will be leaner species than most people are used to. This means being very careful not to overcook the salmon.

Lean salmon cooks like lean hamburger. That is, it cooks very fast and goes from rare to overcooked in almost no time. If you use a recipe or a fish-monger's recommendation you'll have to "undercook" by quite a bit. To start, figure a third less time than a recipe specifies. Remember what I told you: Press the salmon with two fingers. When you feel it push back, it's done.

Hope this helps,
BDL


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## novice_01 (May 6, 2008)

What's the proper way to defrost it?


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Frozen seafood should be thawed gradually by placing it in the refrigerator overnight or in the morning, depending on when you want to cook the fish and how large a piece it is. Thaw it in the package it come in. If you must thaw seafood quickly, either seal it in a plastic bag and immerse it in cold water, or - if the food will be cooked immediately thereafter - microwave it on the "defrost" setting and stop the defrost cycle while the fish is still icy but pliable.

shel


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

The best way to defrost almost all meat, poultry and fish is overnight in the refrigerator. 

BDL


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Bloodline already addressed.

KY raised the "different species" issue. Shel, the best wild western salmon has traditionally been King. The California, Oregon and Washington King runs are reduced to almost zip. The Pacific salmon that's available will be from much leaner fish like Coho, Sockeye and "Silvery."

Whatever TJ was selling was probably a leaner fish than you're used to and that might have had something to do with the texture. Sometimes you just get a piece of crap salmon. The processor should sort out the problem fish but a bad fish just slips through now and then. Also you have to remember that TJ's selling it cheap because they're getting it cheap. Some of their products are incredible values and some of them are just horrible.

My local Vietnamese "Superfoodwarehouse" has some decent wild Coho at reasonable prices. Vien Dong on Rosemead in the SGV. Not much help to you, is it?

The Loch Duart salmon is, as you know, farmed according to fairly evolved practices. As farmed, Atlantic salmon goes it's silly good. As to finding it in the Bay Area, you might try asking [email protected]

BDL


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

While the TJ salmon won't cut it for me for poaching, grilling, or baking, it's OK for use in soup and stew, where the flavor is often masked by other ingredients. But for those salmon dinners, no way. For that I'll get the fish from Paul Johnson at Monterey Fish or Tokyo Fish Market.

There is a market in San Francisco that sell Loch Duart salmon, or at least they did, but it's such a PITAto get over there from the East Bay that it's not worth the trip. There's a sushi place in Napa or Santa Rosa that supposedly uses Loch Duart salmon, and I thought I'd call them and see where they're getting the fish. If that doesn't work outI'll drop your contact a note. I'm really curious to see how it compares to the atlantic salmon that's sold in the supermarkets here. I tried some at a local upscale market and it only took one bite to know that the fish was not Pacific salmon ...

scb


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## novice_01 (May 6, 2008)

This helps a lot! Thanks!


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## qos (Jun 26, 2008)

I love salmon - I like to make it on the grill. I do have to watch it carefully to keep from overcooking - that is happened more than I care to say.

I generally take any left overs and make a salmon salad for DH's lunch. He loves it - wouldn't touch tuna fish salad with a 10' pole but he loves salmon salad. 

I much prefer the wild caught salmon. It is far superior to the farm raised to me. The farm raised has more of a "fishy" taste.

Fish is tricky to cook and cook well. I grew up eating  red snapper and ling. Grandpa would deep sea fish with my great uncle and drag home the good stuff! Yum...red snapper is terrific


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## les poissioner (May 29, 2008)

I know I am joining this thread a bit late, but I wanted to try to help answer a few questions. 

Loch Duart is an Atlantic farm raised product of Scotland. It is a superior choice when it comes to farmed salmon. But if you are on the west coast you have so many wild choices I would recommend.
Not all frozen fish is equal. Very little is frozen at sea, and those fish should be sold as a whole or a headed and gutted form. When it comes to frozen salmon Bruce Gore Wild, and Lumi Island Wild are two names you can trust.
If you are buying frozen fillet you might have better luck cooking it directly from frozen. This usually allows the moisture to stay in the fish.


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## fishmonger ran (May 19, 2008)

BDL, KYH, You guys should open a cooking school. Your explanations always get right to point and are not too technical. It is much appreciated.

Loch Duart salmon is a farmed Atlantic Salmon. What makes this one so different is that it actually holds an, "Organic" certification. Now, that is a EU certification because the US will not comit to certifying anything organic that has fins. (another forum, another time). They actually have a separate pond where they have been using a soy protien feed. This is not marketed yet, but they are having great success at it. If your monger has a competent buyer, he should be able to have it to you within three days of ordering. 

Shel, all fish that go through a processor is "Graded." You have heard the term "Sushi Grade" I am sure. This normally refers to a #1 or #1+ on the tuna grade scale. Well, the same works with any fish that is processed. I am assuming that TJ's got sent some #2's or worse. Those are normally what is used for Canned fish or frozen for overseas buyers. #3's and lower are your fish fertilizer or pet food or fish Farm feed. Nothing is ever wasted. I would actually bring it up to the manager next time you are there. TJ's has a great reputation amongst the processors because they have very picky buyers. They buy an enormous amount of fish and it is in the processors best interest to keep them happy.


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## gunnar (Apr 3, 2008)

Loch Duarte is a farmed salmon, we serve it (and if we run out we don't order whatever Salmon is available) at my restaurant. My Chef says he has studied their farming techniques and finds them to be the best around. As, not serving salmon isn't an option, he is trying to use the best farmed. Cause Wild Salmon needs some time to recover people. Also, even though we are trying to pride ourselves on being local and organic (90% of our gear comes from within 100 miles) , we get this Scotland farmed Salmon due to it's Green impact. I guess trading a small carbon footprint for a large one while trying to support improved fish farming practices worldwide is a even loss for the Green movement.

And Shel? it should taste great. traders Joe's just let ya down. Been finding more and more I don't trust their frozen foods.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Awww, shucks, Fishmonger. Now I'll have to buy a bigger hat.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Yeah, 

BDL


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

What I pleasant surprise! I went the small, local butcher this afternoon to get a rotisserie chicken and some potato salad, and, lo and behold! right there in his case was a nice fillet of Loch Duart salmon. In addition, Larry told me that my two regular fish mongers carry the salmon as well, so I'm set. Can't wait to try it. Price seems quite reasonable, especially compared to the wild Alaskan I've been getting.

If anyone in the East Bay is looking for the fish, the butcher shop at Youngs Market in Kensington carries it, as does Monterey Fish and Tokyo Fish Market in Berkeley.

shel


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## oldschool1982 (Jun 27, 2006)

I apologize for straying from the point but....... NOT TOO TECHNICAL??????? DANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am always surprised when one of their posts isn't a book. Well????? I guess I can be lenghty too But......just trying to lighten my load here guys so don't go all postal on me.:lol::lol::roll:


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

One way of "lightening the load" would be to avoid posts that contribute nothing to the literature on the subject except bulk. Like your last one!


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## oldschool1982 (Jun 27, 2006)

Hey KY thanks for the PM too. Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning or have you always been that much of a....................? 

If you reread my post I poked fun at myself too. Dang guy, lighten up and take a frickin joke!


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## wicks21 (Oct 7, 2015)

For some reason I always prefer the flavor of the steak (cutlet) to the fillet - there's got to be some physical difference surely?


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