# The next step



## fontzmark (Aug 13, 2000)

Greetings all. I just recieved Crust and Crumb yesterday and am ready to start making some serious breads. I have a starter that is alive and well and can completely leaven bread. I have him in a five gallon bucket, about 10 liters or so, when I use it I take out 5l and make bread with it then refeed the remainder, so far it has worked well, but probably definately not a "world class bread", but good. So where can I get some bannetons, or what could I use, will cheap bread baskets work or do I need something specific, what do you use? ANy and all info is greatly appreciaed.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Isn't this stuff cool? As far as bannetons go, I bought them cuz' I think they look cool and I like the way the proofed breads look. I don't think they are necessary though. In The Bread Builders Alan Scott says he uses cheap collanders. They provide the same shape and the holes allow the needed air to get in. If you want bannetons, I have seen a wide range of shapes and prices. The cheapest I have found are at San Francisco Baking Institute. They have a bigger selection at Bridge Kitchenware.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Nobody seems to have the 16" Ring Loaf crown basket I've been looking for.










The last Ring Loaf "Couronne" I made, I used a 16" paella pan, placed a bowl on top, upside down, lined with a couple of tea towels. It worked but the bread was a little tricky to get out!


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Wrong, SFBI offers two, a 10' version and the larger 14" model:
http://www.sfbi.com/oc.shtml

 

[ July 18, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Koko,

Looking for a *SIXTEEN INCH*!!


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Okay! Then my next best guess is to checkout MATFER at GOOGLE.COM.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Kimmie, Why not just use your elbow (well floured of course)? We made the italian version in class on Monday. Formed the dough into a disk, put the point of my elbow into the center and spun the dough around on the table, using my elbow, until the hole was about 6" across. I love to play with my food


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Thanks Koko. Didn't find 16".

Found interesting site...in France!

Crown bannetons available from 500 gr. to 4 lbs. loaves. I will look into that. They are really beautiful.


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## thebighat (Feb 21, 2001)

Fontzmark--If memory serves, you're the person who started this whole plethora of posts about starters and bread baking. I'm glad to see that the tangent we all went off on hasn't deterred you from wanting to go ahead and do this on a daily basis. Cultivate your starter according to Crust and Crumb, or the La Brea starter, and follow the formulas and you will have world class bread. The poolish on page 32 of C&C is very easy to work into a daily thing, make the poolish early in the am, let it stew for 3-5 hours, make a dough, ferment it, overnight it, then shape loaves and bake the next morning and you will have
ciabatta that looks like this

Good luck, good reading


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Dear Kyle,

Sorry for the delay, I just read your post. Steve Sullivan used the "perfectly clean" floured elbow in Julia's show. I do that too.

The basket is used to proof your bread, not to make the hole!









[ July 18, 2001: Message edited by: Kimmie ]


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## fontzmark (Aug 13, 2000)

Thanks I am going there now......


Mark


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## angrychef (Jan 15, 2001)

To bighat: Beautiful ciabatta!


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## thebighat (Feb 21, 2001)

Thank you. That stuff turns out to be so easy to make. If you've looked at Artisan Baking there's a ciabatta in there that's even more dramatic looking, but the dough is very wet and I'd hate to have to make 40 of them under the gun. I made an onion caraway rye today that I wish I'd taken a bigger piece of.


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Would you mind sharing the url for that French site?

Thanks!


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Mais si!

vannerie.net

View the baskets here

I haven't checked into it yet.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Ernest 1 
Kyle 0

I have been humbled. I have had a slight case of overproof. The loaves deflated when I removed them from the baskets. I need to work on my timing. I have a question for greater minds than mine. The last two times I retarded my shaped loaves for extended periods of time, the formed a skin on the top/basket side. This made docking virtually impossible and added to the problem created by overproofing. The baskets were covered in plastic and each in their own garbage bag. How can I prevent the development of this skin?

Thanks


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## fontzmark (Aug 13, 2000)

Thanks Kyle
I thought I had crossed one barrier and now this to look forward to? I am using Ms. Piggy(my own, original starter) and following Peter Reinharts directions, so eight 1.5 pound piggies took a big nap last night, I think they will be fine but my starter is very potent, I have been using daily, I pour off 4l of it to use to make bread, just add salt and flour and a little malt, had some pretty good results, but not a lot of sourness, then I feed the rest and leave it out overnight> When I put the loaves in the for the night they were getting pretty big. Is there something specific you should use for the overnight proof?, bannetons, colanders, bowls? For best results what should you use? Bannetons are expensive! WOuld regular baskets work, were you talking about cheap plastic colanders? Do the loaves need to breathe? When I take them out I set a sheet pan over two of them and slowly flip it over, that has worked in the past, I am guessing tomorrow is going to be a little more delicate!


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Alan Scott uses plastic colanders. He says that the perforations allow some of the moisture to be wicked away from the crust, making it easyier to slash. He also suggests that boules don't have to be proofed "in" anything. They are happy on a parchment lined, inverted baking sheet. 8 loaves! That would take me a week and a half in my EasyBake oven  Do you freeze them? Have you tried to thaw any?


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Fontzmark,

We use proofing baskets for the look, really, but they are not *a vital part of the process.*


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## fontzmark (Aug 13, 2000)

Kyle,
Well Ms. Piggy gave birth to 14 really nice loaves the past few days, they looked much like yours, I do't think they overproofed though, they did not have a lot of irregular holes and such, a few but not what I was striving for, hopefully it will get better, the bread was a huge hit, with many complements, good flavor and a real good crust.
When I take mine out of the fridge, if they look dry and it appears they have a skin on them I spray a little h2o on them, does the trick, this will soften it up a bit. How are Frank and Ernest doing?


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

I am happy that things went well with your piglets. I think that practice is going to be the key to big holes and airy loaves. I plan to follow The Big Hat's advice, go deep before I go wide. I have given Frank and Ernest (and myself) the weekend off. I hope to get them fed and ready to bake loaves Saturday morning. I think that may be one of the most problematic areas for me, timing. How to figure out when I want bread and back out the necessary time blocks.


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Won't you get invade by Ernest & Frank if you feed them everyday? Don't you have to make a lot of bread just to use what you make daily?


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

I have begun construction of a new room 
I throw a lot of them away. Until I get a pattern down I want to keep them as well fed as possible as often as possible. I was serious about my offer to send you some dried Ernest


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Dry Ernest? What do you mean Kyle? I don't understand.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Iza,

Une image vaut mille mots...


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Merci Kimmie.

Is it dry? It looks alive to me.

Ever thought of a movie Kyle? The invasion of Ernest and Frank or how to get you life taken over by a starter., I can see the trailer. It begun innocently enough with a cup of flour or water... You won't believe what happens next.









It doesn't look "dry" though. How do save dry Ernest? And what do you do to bring him back to life?


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Well, Iza, I hate to burst your bubble, but the film was made way back in the 50's. It was called THE BLOB! 
 

[ July 25, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Iza,

Once dried, the starter breaks apart like potato chips. The chips are then placed in a plastic ziplock bag sealed tightly and then put into the refrigerator [see the photo posted previously].

The starter keeps this way for up to six months with no ill effects, though I suspect you can probably go up to a year. To reactivate it, place the starter chips in equal amounts of flour and water and put it in a warm place for 12 hours.

Click here and scroll down to "Preserving your starter" for the whole story.

It's way 

[ July 25, 2001: Message edited by: Kimmie ]


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Koko you did burst my bubble.  


Thanks for the info Kimmie.


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