# Hotel or corporate



## bryan hu

Hey guys,
Would like some advice.
A. Corporate restaurant with semi decent pay and position. (Doing it just for resume purpose)
B. Hotel job with a good pay but starting from the bottom, grind my way up . (Unionized)
Would like to get some advice ,
As my goal is not to be forever on the line. As much as I love cooking

Wonder which would be better for the long run .


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## flipflopgirl

You will get a much broader exposure in hotels.
So many departments under the food and beverage hat plus possible transfers to others in the chain.
Cannot help with the Union stuff tho.

mimi


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## Cdp

I would say Hotel for a stability point if your good you will rise really quickly,
however there will be a point you will tred on toes due to being more efficient than others


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## bryan hu

Cdp said:


> I would say Hotel for a stability point if your good you will rise really quickly,
> however there will be a point you will tred on toes due to being more efficient than others


Not too sure about rising fast as my friend who's working there tells me it's based on seniority.


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## bryan hu

flipflopgirl said:


> You will get a much broader exposure in hotels.
> So many departments under the food and beverage hat plus possible transfers to others in the chain.
> Cannot help with the Union stuff tho.
> 
> mimi


Yes I'm pretty sure I will get more exposure , worked in a hotel a few years back but didn't really like the environment . Thanks for the advice though


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## Cdp

Yeah your right to a point,
Seniority is partially correct but if your good consistent at your work you will be fine,

I went in and went to the chef .......(he is good I mean really good)
I said I need you to break me and remould me 

I want results I say to him

He did 
I came out better mentally and a better chef...the workloads today I still unsure how I completed it but I got through it
The hotel side
Plus if you start down the bottom you can watch what they want done and if your already good you will see the inexperience there and produce a better product not changing ingredients by methods, instead of direct heat a water bath etc
And at that point you will see them watch how you did it better and most likely come to you later

Me personally if I see someone make something better than me or a method I haven't seen and a better product is the outcome.....I want to know, I don't care if it is an apprentice or a dish hand.

Prime example, we needed a chocolate mousse no egg etc,

Now I tried to make a cream and chocolate based... whip cream add melt chocolate  muck around with ratios and what not,

Anyway it was shit.

Tried again another chef said ( new guy) lets whip it fold it set it and then rewhip it.
He was a sous,

Good to go product held in a bag


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## chefross

If that hotel job is unionized, chances are that hotel is also corporate with all the bells and whistles that go with it.
I don't know where you are but I would not take the union job. Hotel and restaurant workers union is as useless as whale excrement.


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## bryan hu

chefross said:


> If that hotel job is unionized, chances are that hotel is also corporate with all the bells and whistles that go with it.
> I don't know where you are but I would not take the union job. Hotel and restaurant workers union is as useless as whale excrement.


I'm based in Canada Vancouver bc . The hotel that I'm considering is the fairmont.


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## flipflopgirl

You are welcome Mr Hu.
I cut my teeth in hotel hospitality and have found they all have different cultures with those cultures varying widely from kitchen to kitchen... even those under the same roof.
The Fairmont is IME pretty selective with regards to new hires and those who are chosen to join their family can be set for life.
So despite your previous experience I would say give it another spin.

mimi


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## nicko

Well they are both corporate right? I think what you mean to ask is restaurant group or hotel? My advice is try both but don't take a job just for resume purposes. Think about what kind of chef you want to be in 5 years and take the work that will get you there. Personally I think working banquets in large hotels give young chefs invaluable experience on budgeting and numbers for parties and catering.


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## Iceman

Whereas I'm not gonna argue with *chefross *about the value of UNIONS ... I am a UNION guy. I kinda think the pay would be better. If you do get the standard bells and whistles, the perks that go with better jobs, you should seriously consider that. Maybe they both give the same, I don't know from your information, but all of that that goes with a really good job, healthcare, vacation, regular pay-grade increases, is worth thinking about.

_"We work in kitchens ... It ain'te rocket surgery."._​


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## foodpump

Well.... There's lots of Fairmonts in Vancouver, Waterfront, Vancouver, Airport, etc. Most of them are unionized. When you do get an interview, ask the H.R. for a union handbook. Most, if not all are "seniority based", which means you start off p/t, and shifts are based on seniority, not competance. You will be deducted union dues from day 1, but will not be eligable for any Union representation for usually 3 mths. In my 30 years in this biz, I have never seen an audited financial report made available to sny union member at any time.

You willl get more exposure in a hotel, but no guarantees you will work enough hours to cover your rent.

Hooe thus helps


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## Pat Pat

I feel the opposite to what most people said here. I find that you get a very limited experience working in a hotel. A few lucky people might get to live their hotel dream but most of them don't.

I met a hotel cook that has been doing salads for 13 years. Another has been doing breakfast for 9 years. A friend of mine has been unsuccessfully trying to transfer to a different hotel in the chain for the past 5 years. Another had to wait 2 years to move to a different restaurant within the same hotel.

And once you get into the hotel groove, it's hard to get away from that. that's why you rarely see any hotel chefs opening their own restaurants.


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## bryan hu

foodpump said:


> Well.... There's lots of Fairmonts in Vancouver, Waterfront, Vancouver, Airport, etc. Most of them are unionized. When you do get an interview, ask the H.R. for a union handbook. Most, if not all are "seniority based", which means you start off p/t, and shifts are based on seniority, not competance. You will be deducted union dues from day 1, but will not be eligable for any Union representation for usually 3 mths. In my 30 years in this biz, I have never seen an audited financial report made available to sny union member at any time.
> 
> You willl get more exposure in a hotel, but no guarantees you will work enough hours to cover your rent.
> 
> Hooe thus helps


I'm considering the waterfront location, my buddy is pursuading me to take the job over my current . I know that with union jobs it's with the benefits and all which is really tempting and pay is also really good comparing to what I'm earning now . On the other hand the company I'm with now is fairly new and they are planning to have more restaurant opened soon . Hence I'm thinking if it's gonna be worthwhile to stick with them and see if I would be Able to climb up and run a restaurant on my own eventually . 
Thanks for the input guys . 
Greatly appreciated


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## PAdams2359

If you are young, in your 20s, and seeing some positive growth of the company, and they aren’t just winging it on the business side, or some rich kid that could get bored and move onto something else, give it a year or two and see where you go. If you are seeing some movement, you may have gotten in on the ground floor. If not, get the hotel experience. Hotel chefs may not open their own restaurants, but they sure start their own catering companies.


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## foodpump

Once again, check with H.R. Benefits usually come after a 6 mth probation, and almost always for full time only. I have never seen bennies for p/t in my life yet. 
Again, check with H.R.about salary, just because they say they can pay $20 /hr, doesn't mean you'll get that rate, you have to qualify to get the top rate, which means working 3 consecutive months at 160 hrs a mth to qualify, which us hard to do if you're p/t or at the bottom of the seniority list.
Confused? Read the union handbook, if that doesn't confuse you, I don't know what will.


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## Pat Pat

If you really are going for Fairmont, the Pacific Rim has the best food. I didn't find the food at the Waterfront location that inspiring. The Four Seasons has the best hotel food in Vancouver though I'd say.


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## bryan hu

PAdams2359 said:


> If you are young, in your 20s, and seeing some positive growth of the company, and they aren't just winging it on the business side, or some rich kid that could get bored and move onto something else, give it a year or two and see where you go. If you are seeing some movement, you may have gotten in on the ground floor. If not, get the hotel experience. Hotel chefs may not open their own restaurants, but they sure start their own catering companies.


Ive actually be working for the company for about 16 months now. Got promoted to sous within the first few months. ( smaller restaurant) 150 seats. But I've moved to their bigger location (500 seats or so)as a sous as well. I personally think and feel that I've learn a lot not just in cooking but more of management wise in this company.


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## bryan hu

Pat Pat said:


> If you really are going for Fairmont, the Pacific Rim has the best food. I didn't find the food at the Waterfront location that inspiring. The Four Seasons has the best hotel food in Vancouver though I'd say.





foodpump said:


> Once again, check with H.R. Benefits usually come after a 6 mth probation, and almost always for full time only. I have never seen bennies for p/t in my life yet.
> Again, check with H.R.about salary, just because they say they can pay $20 /hr, doesn't mean you'll get that rate, you have to qualify to get the top rate, which means working 3 consecutive months at 160 hrs a mth to qualify, which us hard to do if you're p/t or at the bottom of the seniority list.
> Confused? Read the union handbook, if that doesn't confuse you, I don't know what will.


I didn't know that, my friend told me they were paying $25 /hr for a cook 2 and he thinks that I should join him. After reading ur comments it seems so complicated being in a union company. Makes me question myself do I really want it .


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## Pat Pat

Sounds like you are working at Cactus Club. Great place to work, great food. Speed cooking is the best skill you'll get out of there.

It's awesome at the beginning of your career but most cooks will kinda plateau there after a few years. Staying there longer than five years and people will start to lose their respects for you (unless you get to become the chef).

One a side note, you'll never get to see or be friends with as many beautiful girls working in any hotels as you will working at Cactus Club. If you are super career-focused, this won't be a concern; but a lot of cooks I know need eye candy to motivate them to work harder.


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## bryan hu

Pat Pat said:


> Sounds like you are working at Cactus Club. Great place to work, great food. Speed cooking is the best skill you'll get out of there.
> 
> It's awesome at the beginning of your career but most cooks will kinda plateau there after a few years. Staying there longer than five years and people will start to lose their respects for you (unless you get to become the chef).
> 
> One a side note, you'll never get to see or be friends with as many beautiful girls working in any hotels as you will working at Cactus Club. If you are super career-focused, this won't be a concern; but a lot of cooks I know need eye candy to motivate them to work harder.


Yeah my goal is to eventually become a chef. It has been an eye opener for me sinced I've moved to Canada. How kitchens are being run here compared to back from where I'm from are totally different. 
Main focus is still career rather than eye candy-ing XD


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## foodpump

Hi Brtan,
Unfortunatly your buddy isn't the one doing the hiring, only H.R. can tell you what you would be earning when you start.

My experiences with vncvr hotel unions sre exactly that, my experiences. You need to experience hotels for yourself.

Please take these two facts into consideration


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## superiora1

I am quite hesitant to cast an opinion (vote) on which is better. But I believe bot hotels and corporate have their advantages/disadvantages. I'm working corporate as of now, and still an active culinary student in college. At my current restaurant I started in the pits aka the dish room, even though I have credited hours towards a degree. Now I'm a line cook at that same place (Cheesecake Factory). I learned a lot moving up to the line about corporate restaurants and I believe it all depends on what you want from your career. Corporate can be harsh but for sure can pay off in many ways if its your preference.


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## kuan

Hotel. A good hotel with banquets, bakery, room service, 3 restaurants, poolside bar, etc. You learn it all in a hotel but it has to be a good one.


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## flipflopgirl

kuan said:


> Hotel. A good hotel with banquets, bakery, room service, 3 restaurants, poolside bar, etc. You learn it all in a hotel but it has to be a good one.


Maybe I am just biased.
I love hotels.
Esp if they offer white glove service and amenities.
I keep an eagle eye on the discount sites and if a good deal catches my attention I snap up a few nites in the nicest suite I can get my hands on.
My bag will hold one nice dress (shoes and jewelry to match ;-) boxers and tshirts and big fuzzy socks and my favorite bubbly milk bath.
I move in and treat myself to the dining rooms and room service and maybe a spa day.
Heaven.

mimi


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## Jandira Passos

interesting topic! thanks for sharing guys!


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