# Father Of 22 Year Old Aspiring Chef w/ Questions



## magentawave (Sep 15, 2008)

Hi everyone!

I am a dad of a 22 year old son that is seriously thinking of going to chef school. He loves to cook and seems to be a natural.

I joined this forum in the hope that I can get some opinions from others that have been out there doing it instead of the opinions of commissioned sales people at the chef schools.

I wish I had the money to pay for his schooling, but I don't, so he will have to work while going to school and finance his education with student loans.

My point is... The cost of his education matters, but then so does getting a good education, and being able to get a good job after graduation.

*My first questions are...*

_1) All things being equal (a students ability, attitude, work ethic, etc.), will a graduate of CIA in New York land a better higher paying job than a graduate of a less prestigious chef school?

2) With no previous college education, is it harder to get into CIA of New York over other chef schools?_

Thank you very much!
Steve


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## greg (Dec 8, 1999)

To your first question: maybe. It depends on how the chef that is hiring feels about the CIA. My best friend went to the CIA and he's very capable. I've worked with other CIA grads that weren't. I don't personally care one way or another where (or if) a job candidate went to school.

As to your second question, the CIA may be marginally harder to get into. They used to require a certain amount of work experience and an essay for admittance; I recall hearing they discontinued the essay requirement, but I could be wrong.

Lastly, no school is a "chef school". School will teach you how to cook and some of the wherefore and the why behind cooking. No one will be prepared to be a chef after graduating based solely on what the school has taught them.They will be a cook and previous experience will determine where they land on the pay scale.


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## magentawave (Sep 15, 2008)

1) So you are saying that it is totally up to the person hiring whether it matters what culinary school someone went to...or even if they didn't go to a culinary school? 

2) Someone told me recently about a son of a friend of hers that went to a culinary school in San Francisco and immediately got a job with Hyatt (or it could have been Hilton) to travel around the world and sample food and then recreate that food for the restaurants. They are paying him $150,000.00 per year. I realize (after reading other posts) that is an unusually good job he got, but that leads me to the next question...

Would having a good culinary school on his resume made a difference whether they even looked at this resume or not (like what happens with a law student graduate from Harvard as opposed to a graduate from San Diego State or any other "normal" college)?

Thanks again.
Steve


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## greg (Dec 8, 1999)

Yes. In some cases, the chef isn't even screening the resume's. It could be a person in human resources who possibly doesn't even know which school is better than another. 

I seriously doubt this position exists. If it does, competition for the position would be fierce and it would go to someone with a proven track record in research and development.

Again, it might. I look at work experience, length of employment at each job and spelling/grammar.

In a nutshell, whether or not a culinary school is good is a subjective judgment and will change from person to person. That said, I think having a good school on your resume' will overwhelmingly do more good than harm. It all comes down to what your goals are career-wise and what you can afford.


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## lizabu (Jun 17, 2008)

That would be awesome...It sounds like one of those urban myths though. If it helps make the decision at all, going to culinary school prepares you for an entry level position. Not going to any school at all also prepares you for an entry level position. The theory is that having the schooling behind you, you may have already learned some things so you may rise through the ranks slightly faster than someone with no schooling however it's completely up to the person and how quickly they take to the job, their drive and determination etc. Most entry level positions pay around $10 per hour but this can also vary depending on the restaurant. With cooking. you have to do it because you love it.


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## magentawave (Sep 15, 2008)

I'm just starting my research about chef schools, but after lurking on a couple chef forums, I'm beginning to think that many aspiring chefs spend thousands of dollars on a culinary school education and end up with a relatively low paying job because the money is secondary. I wonder how long it takes them to pay off their student loans when you are only making $10 to $15 per hour?!

So here's the question...

Does anyone know if it would be just as advantageous (and a lot less expensive!) for my son to take cooking courses at a community college instead of paying thousands at a chef school like CIA?

Thanks again.
Steve


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## lizabu (Jun 17, 2008)

That's where I go...to a community college. They have a payment plan where you can pay the tuition in four payments which is what I decided to do. When I graduate I won't owe a penny. That's what works for me.


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## magentawave (Sep 15, 2008)

1) Was your decision to go to community college instead of a private culinary school based purely on financial reasons?

2) Do you plan on using this knowledge just for personal reasons (to cook at home for family and friends) or is it because you want to work in the restaurant industry after graduating?

3) And if your education is because you will be working in the industry, did you research this before enrolling and found out that it makes no difference (as far as getting a good job later) whether you attend an expensive culinary school or an inexpensive community college?

Thanks very much for your input! 

Steve


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## ghettoracingkid (Feb 19, 2007)

no matter where you go the pay is crap when you first start.

You get what you put into it. If you work really hard and keep on leanring and move aroudn your son will be fine. afte a few years he can become a sous chef and then a few years after that a head or exec chef. 

I think the main thing should be is this something he is going to be happy doign the rest of his life?

If he does then the money willnt matter. THe last chef I worked for loved what he did and wouldnt change it for the world. 

I hate my job and cant wait to get back into the resturant biz but I found my calling too late and now I jsut cant start back over from the bottom.


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## lizabu (Jun 17, 2008)

Partly. Location came in to it too. The city I live in has a community college. It doesn't have a private cooking school so it just wasn't tuition that factored into it. I would also need to think about living expenses if I went to another city.

My main goal is to get my Red Seal. I work part time in a restaurant. This helps to pay for school. I am also getting practice. My program includes registering me with the ministry as an apprentice and a 6 month externship over the summer. This will count towards the 6000 hours needed before you can write the Red Seal Exam. The Red Seal is a certificate here in Canada that basically tells employers you have met the minimum requirements needed to cook. The US has different certifications which I don't know about.

Just from the people I have run in to, opinions on schools varies depending on who you're speaking to. For example a graduate of a certain school may have a preference for students from their school but then again, maybe not. Basically what I researched the most was what qualifications are needed to have the best chance of getting a job in the city I live in. Most of the "Help Wanted" ads I saw were looking for people with their Red Seal as the minimum requirement so that's where I decided to start.


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## magentawave (Sep 15, 2008)

Hey thanks very much for your answers! I really appreciate it.

Anyone else willing to give their two cents about whether to attend an expensive culinary school or just take cooking classes at a community college?

Steve


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## clutch_n_meth (Feb 26, 2007)

As far as getting hired out of school goes, there really is no guarentee that you'll get picked up _just because_ you went to Such-in-such Academy of Culinary Arts. I am a mechanic by trade and have known two Lincoln Tech grads who were told by Pep Boys (of all places) that they wouldn't hire them cause they didn't have "real world" experience.

Another thing to keep in mind, as GhettoRacingKid said:

I used to be in finance. I made great money there and there was always room for advancement, but I didn't really like what I did. After getting into it, I decided to do it so I could open my own repair shop. Then after thinking about it a little more, I decided to drop it entirely, go back to the hospital I was working for and go back to school for an Associates in Applied Sciences for Automotive Technology. Now I am on my way to a degree and a job working for Toyota, and possibly Lexus, with room to move up. The money may not be as good as I could have made in finance, but this way I'll be doing something I love to do and I'll be able to spend the time I want to with my family (when I'm done with school and have children). That's what is most important to me.

I think the best advice here is just give him whatever support you can if this is what he feels like he wants to do as his career. I wish you two the best of luck!


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## knewnews (Sep 7, 2008)

I am in the same situation, 21 love to cook and I am mostly sure it is what I want to do with myself. Considering my financial situation I opted for community college, very affordable. I figure general basics are always good and why not learn at a discounted price and also say 2 years down the road if I change my mind I won't be out a hefty sum just to be a decent home cook.


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## magentawave (Sep 15, 2008)

Thats sounds smart! Are you learning a lot from your courses that you feel you can use in a work situation?

Thanks.
Steve


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

Ill give you one better and it was the route I took, contact the America Culinary Federation/ACF and find out if there is an Apprenticeship program avaliable in your area. It is a paying job that puts you in a VERY good kitchen under a VERY qualified chef and you spend 3 years learning everything there is to know about how to run an operation as well as culinary,baking and pastry, labor and food costing and front of the house. You have to take a few classes that are usually 1 night a week for a few hours. They are usually given at a local community college or trade school and it is much cheaper than Culinary School. My philosophy is you get what you want out of an education. With the right apprenticeship the skys the limit.


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## bobby (Feb 23, 2008)

beat me to it. i am enrolled in a private culinary school, and i wish i had gone this route. reason #1. alot cheaper #2. real world experience #3. alot of people do well in culinary school, graduate and go work on the line and realize this is something they cannot/dont want to do. if you cannot find an acf program, have him find a job in a upscale or fine dining place and see how he likes it. if it works well for him culinary school might be a good option and worth the money. and experience doesnt hurt either.


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Water boils @212* no matter what school you go to It's you not the school.


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## bundens (Jul 5, 2008)

Forgive me for sounding like some pretentious 'artist' type, but A LOT of careers nowadays require a lot of dedication and hard work. I'm in my mid twenties and have been around and working in the food service and restaurant biz now for about 7 years. I weighed my options heavily when it came to paying 28 thou for my culinary education (that i am currently receiving) I am a full supporter of getting in education and a degree if you have the motivation and means to do it. A degree is better than NO degree in this day in age since they have now become commodity. Nobody better than myself understands that taking on college loans and debt is a an extreme sacrifice but one that I feel really needs to be made when pursuing any career. 
If your son is serious about cooking than it is only a benefit to him. Advancing in the culinary world can take a while. If money is strictly what he is after than he could easily make 50k a year managing a Mcdonalds but I'm assuming, much like I, this is not what he is after.
I enrolled because I want the freedom to travel and move around ...a freedom that is not afforded easily when you don't have a college degree. I also wanted to open up more doors for myself. Anybody could pick a franchise or corporate place (such as applebees, TGI fridays, dunkin donuts, wendys you name it) to manage or cook for and subside complacently with a decent living for the rest of their life...but not just anybody can cook in these places and then just work in a talented restaurant, hotel, or even become an executive chef EASILY. Sure work ethic and drive can take you places but it may take you until you're 50 of working 60-70 hour weeks at 2 jobs to get there. With a culinary degree your son will also be eligible for more than just cooking and he can supplement that degree with business or nutrition classes for a bachealors. He could easily land a food writer job, nutrition consultant, private chef, food stylist, food critic, corporate chef, he could go further and get interested in food science.
Doors OPEN...and quicker than without a degree.

So, currently I have the means to go and get a degree (no rent, no credit debt, just a car payment and cell phone bill)...so I had a good honest talk with myself and decided that putting myself into debt for a degree was a wise choice that I'm happy with. If youu can get the courage to take out a car loan than you can certainly take out loans to go to school. 

As far as what school you go to, I believe that putting CIA down on your resume looks good, especially if you have the drive and skill to back it up but I don't think that other culinary programs should be nixed. That being said I also don't think it is wise to pick the cheapest school. I believe finding a school with a nice balance that has alot to offer is the wisest decision. Find a school with knowledgable instructors, one with a small student to teacher ratio, one with extracurricular activities, a school in an area with lots of opportunity, a school that is ACF certified, if it's a community college do they have transfer agreements with any of the bigger named schools?...take the time to review if the program they offer has this.

True, he'll probably only be making 10-15 bucks an hour after school but unless you're a doctor or a lawyer that's all anybody really makes after school nowadays anyway. Even entry level accountants make about that much if only a little bit more.

Picking a career really should only be about what you enjoy. Like I stated at the beginning, all jobs require commitment and compatibility. You will always succeed at what you are good at and/or truly have a passion for.

good luck!


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## loldrey (Dec 15, 2008)

From what I hear, the only difference between CIA and some lesser-known culinary schools is the price, and the prestige of the name. Not that it's not a great school, I'm sure it is, but I wouldn't want to be paying off student loans for the rest of my life just to go there. I highly doubt your son will leave there with a very high-paying job at all, and it will take years upon years of experience in the field to even come close to a salary that's worth anything. Being a Chef takes a lot of experience, and just graduating from culinary school doesn't give you the skills you need to make it in that industry. Those are all things to bear in mind when choosing a school.. and I agree with the person who suggested an apprenticeship program.


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## jtobin625 (Dec 16, 2008)

To the poster of the thread, has your son actually worked in a restaurant kitchen or just cooked at home. There is a huge difference. 

Private culinary school may or may not be the best option. One can find examples of amazing chefs (Mario Batali, Charlie Trotter, Tony Mantuano, Michael Carlson) who either are culinary school drop outs or never attended. 

Can you be successful even without a degree? Yes. Is it common. No. 

Community colleges can produce great graduates and the same can be said with private schools. CIA has produced some of the best chefs out there and I don't even work for them. 

Determine if your son is really serious before you drop all that money and also, some admissions representatives may be like salesman, but others will tell you like it is. CIA doesn't really need to "sell" itself to anyone. The name and reputation is fantastic but like others have said, its what the individual makes of it. 

If your son has no experience in a professional kitchen and he wants to break into the business, tell him to get a job as a dishwasher at a restaurant he would want to be a chef at. If he scoffs at it and says he is too good for it, I would seriously question his motivation. The life of a typical chef is loaded with long hours, little pay (in the beginning as a cook), and an entire lifestyle change. However, you can take a culinary degree and work in research and development, education, corporate (like hotels meaning benefits and better pay), etc. 

Good luck.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Reading through the posts, a few things come to mind.

*Chef school* really grates on my nerves. These schools don't produce "Chefs", they produce Culinary school graduates.

One of the reasons CIA is so famous and has such a reputation is that future students who have previous culinary experience are short listed first, those that don't, come second. Also, the CIA is a non-profit run school, I believe. These two facts have a huge impact, as many private schools accept whomever pays the tuition, and focus on making money, not enhancing thier reputation, and the reputation of thier alumni.

Culinary school, which ever is chosen is like a piggy bank: What you get out of it, is exactly what you put into it. If the student has previous working experience, spends all available free time with his/her nose in culinary books and fooling around in the kitchen, then that student will be better prepared to extract all skills, techniques, and advice available from staff, irregardless if this information is included in the curriculum or not.

Basically, the more education the better, and leaves the person with more options available. Education does not really impress Chefs reading the resume, as many of them know the only and very real acid test is the first day or so in the kitchen. However--Chefs do not sign paychecks, but those who do sign the checks are frequently impressed with degrees and diplomas.

Money.... Cooking is one of the poorest paid jobs in N. America, and there are numerous reasons for this: Lack of Gov't trade qualifications, (as in the case for most other trades) lack of cohesive Culinary school criteria, a mind-boggling amount of restaurnts/hotels/clubs available--and all competing for the same dollar, and finally sloppy, greedy, lethargic hospitality unions only concerned with garnisheeing wages and nothing else. But mostly it's the fierce competition from other places which all need to meet the customer's demand for food/service as cheaply as possible. As in every business, the sales dept makes the biggest money, and the production team the worst. The food business is no different, it is ingrained into every customer to tip the waiter for the whole dining experience,(ie a % of the whole bill) and to pass the Cook a compliment, right?

In order to walk, you have to crawl first, and in order to be a Chef you must be a competant cook. Cooks prepare food and Chefs command the cooks, but everyone wants to be a chief and not an indian..... The process from cook to Chef is not quick, easy, or neccesarily pretty. A Chef commanding 20or 30 employees will earn much more than a Chef of a small restaurant. The money is directly related to the amount of responsibility, and this is governed, among other things, by the amount of experience the Chef has.

I hope this has been of some help


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## theunknowncook (Dec 17, 2009)

MagentaWave[Steve]:
May I try to dissuade you from sending your son to a private cookery school? I would like to suggest that he do an *ACF Apprenticeship*[The *Broadmoor* has an excellent reputation.], or attend a community college listed in *Shaw Guides*. I think that the two best community college Culinary Arts Programs are: *GRCC*, which has *1 CMC* and *1 CMPC* on faculty, and *Schoolcraft*, which had *3 CMCs* and *1 CMPC* on faculty. *GRCC* also encourages their *C.A.* students join *ACF*[the local *ACF Chapter*, meets on campus], and test to become *Certified* *Culinarians*. [He could also do his *externship* in Scotland.] Afterwards, it might behoove your son to consider doing an apprenticeship at the *Greenbrier*. :chef:


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## chefray (Sep 29, 2009)

As to the question of whether or not a culinary degree will help or not, it's a leg up but I can say that I've never hired anyone without an audition, of sorts. Given two people, equally talented, with similar personalities and experience, and both with degrees, the one with the CIA/J&W/Art Institute degree might have a slight advantage over the one from community college. The first three factors would have to be absolutely equal however.

What I'm getting at is, if he shows talent and passion, and you say he does, it will shine through regardless of which school he chooses.


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

I'm not a pro cook or working in a kitchen anymore, but I do have something to relay on this issue.

I have 2 nieces, both around the same age. One (call her Niece A  ), is from well to do parents and was able to go to a pricey cookery school. Niece B has a single mother and went to a commmunity college thru government grants and scholarships. Both went to learn to cook and get a qualification, although they'd both been cookiing since being knee high to a grass hopper at home. They both love it.

Niece A passed her courses with just being able to do cooking school and no outside job to support herself. Niece B also passed her courses, but out of necessity, took a part time job at a well respected high end restaurant (Chef liked her attitude and drive) while she studied, it did make for very long days. Luckily Chef took her under his wing and they got on very well. After 5 years there, at 22 years of age, and a year after getting her "stripes", she's now Sous Chef there, often taking charge of the entire kitchen while Chef has a holiday.

Niece A has some work now, but very little practical experience, albeit that she is a very good cook. I think she's cooking meals for children at a day care centre. She's a lovely girl, but doesn't have that passion.

Just thought I'd toss that into the pot for consideration. How I got into my brief kitchen role was starting as a dishwasher (hands up how many here did it the same way  ) and got asked by Chef if I'd like to learn to cook. Yes. No question of have you had any training - I'll show you how. So I did. And did I learn - fast. Twas either that or get flicked with a kitchen towel hehe


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## chefray (Sep 29, 2009)

There's no hand raised smiley so I'll use this one.:thumb:


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

Cheers Chefray 

I have the feeling that unless someone canmot get the opportunity to get into a kitchen where someone is willing to mentor them, then culinary school can teach them to cook. But to spend a fortune on a "name" school...I can't see the benefit.

I wish the OP all the best with getting his son where he can explore the wonderful world of cooking (without straining the budget too far), and go as far (or beyond) where his dream takes him.


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

:bounce: I started at 14 washing dishes in a deli/bagel shop. Would go to work at 5 AM on Sat and Sun mornings and worked with the NASTIEST OLD MAN!! He got great pleasure in running 500 deg sheet pans across the back of my arms and watching me burn. I learned ALOT about how not to treat ppl and what not to do.


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

chefhow - now that _is_ nasty. Hope you got your own back on him in some way.

look: hoping the OP is still out there somewhere....lots of great advice has been offered)


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## chiffanot (Feb 5, 2010)

I am 22 years old, recently enrolled at a private culinary school in Louisville, KY. It's called Sullivan University and boasts that it is "#12 in the country" etc... 

My path started at a public university studying philosophy, then moved to Chicago to study film/video. Went to Europe on a whim and realized that food culture is where I have always belonged. I've always enjoyed a good meal and cooking but never considered it a profession I could undertake.

Dropped out of film school on a whim and here I am.

I do not regret it for a second. Culinary school is only one part of the equation. I have taken it upon myself to find a good chef in the city and I have been spending my Fridays and Saturdays in a 5 Star Diamond restaurant doing whatever he wants me to do. Coupled with culinary school and a job as a line cook at a Mediterranean grill in town I am learning quick and am setting myself up to take the study abroad position to learn even more. 

The culinary world is all about learning. Even the chef I work with at the 5 Star restaurant is constantly reading, learning, and making me read everything he does. The more you learn and try out, the better you will be at what you do. The better you are, the more you can accomplish with a bit of determination and luck.

I suppose this job is just like any other. Put the time and effort in and it will pay off... just not as much as the suit and tie jobs.

Tell your son good luck and god-speed.

-ChiffaNOT


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## web monkey (Jan 18, 2007)

magentawave said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I am a dad of a 22 year old son that is seriously thinking of going to chef school. He loves to cook and seems to be a natural.
> 
> ...


It's been about a year and a half. What did your son finanlly decide to do and how is it working out?

Terry


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2010)

Im going to a community college, it is a much better option. You get the exact same training and same associates degree. You dont need to pay 40 grand for one of those for profit schools. I almost went to Le Cordon Bleu, what a rip off. Im paying 7 grand for the same degree at the CC. Those for profit schools will take anyone, and will also give the degree to anyone. Alot of chefs dont care for these student because they arent being trained properly.


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## jasminesolis (Mar 22, 2010)

i think you are very smart to make such a choice.
But here is one thing you  need to be aware : think twice before you leap.Once you choose this cooking career ,you reallly should put great efforts into it .


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