# Decision: Wolf or BlueStar/Electric or Gas



## stratoblaster (Aug 12, 2009)

Hi everyone...I'm hoping to hear from any owners of Wolf Duel Fuel Ranges and Blue Star Ranges. I am deciding between those two manufacturers for a 60 inch Range.Cooking on Garlands , I have no doubt that the Blue Star Burner out performs either of the Wolf burners (sealed or semi sealed).When comparing the Wolf burners to each other, for consistency of heat,to my surprise,the "sealed" burner actually out performed the "semi sealed".
I am more concerned with the actual oven...gas or electric.I have never cooked in an electric oven so I am not really sure if its for me or not.Working with the Chefs in the showroom at Wolf, most agree that the electric is a better choice, and they say for just about anything...baking or roasting. They mentioned that the electric doesn't have an infrared broiler, but will crisp up a poultry skin or prime rib edge better because of the multiple heat sources and the dual convection, as opposed to one heat source coming from under the pan on a gas oven.Obviously I've had crisp poultry skin from my gas oven so I'm not quite so sure that I buy that,but wondering if anyone has experience with this and can voice an opinion on it.


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## dillbert (Jul 2, 2008)

for the 'broil' thing, it's pretty self evident.

old style gas oven had a broiler tray under the oven. 

electric ovens typical have an element 'on top'

gas below tray is essentially non-controllable it is "on" or "off"
electric coil above is wimpy, and that's being generous. I have to set my current electric to 550'F (max 'dial') and use a wad of alum foil to trick the dang coils into staying red hot (vs. cycling 'off' on some stupid thermostat setting...)

'broil' is classical defined as "intense radiant heat from above" 
'grilling' is classically defined as "intense radiant heat from below"

the difference is what happens to the stuff that drips off the "object of cooking"

having experienced both in real life home cooking, the gas burners at full bore provide a more accurate "broil" experience than electric, tricks excepted....


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## stratoblaster (Aug 12, 2009)

Thanks for your input...both Blue Star and Wolf "Gas" ovens have an infrared broiler mounted on the top of the oven which is definitely more efficient than the older gas style "burner" types or the electric in regard to broiling...I'm not sure thats a deal breaker because I will be using a Blue Star Salamander and a 24" charbroiler as additional equipment in the kitchen.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

Why compare a DF range to a BS? BS is not DF. Dual fuel is only beneficial IMO if you do a ton of serious baking and even then I prefer gas.
BS is not made by Garland. BS and Garland are owned by different corporations. Garlands have higher BTU's and other design differences especially on the larger ranges Vs BS.
Burners are either open or sealed. AFAIK Wolf DF is sealed. BS is open. Sealed burners are a RPITA (IMO) no matter how much marketing hype they give them. Spill something on a sealed burner and you really have to work to get it clean.
The dual onvection or "Pure" or "true" or any of the other slick marketing names they give dual convection is hype in a home owner range. Nothing matches the direct heat of gas for searing meat. The only benefit of electric is a more consistent heat source and you do not have the humidty of gas. You lose a quality broiler with DF and DF is typically more expensive. That's a big trade off IMO.
Having said that I will tell you I owned a BS and had nothing but grief. Once you get out side a few internet forums very few people have even heard of BS. Make sure there is a factory authorized repair center near you.
No matter what brand you get I would stick with a gas oven.


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## stratoblaster (Aug 12, 2009)

Thanks for your input as well....however,....I never made the statement that Blue star was MADE by Garland...Blue Star took over production of the "Residential" ovens that were previously marketed by Garland about 7-8 years ago, just as Sub Zero did when they decided to be in the Range business,by marketing a "Residential " version of Wolf....2 separate companies,two separate badges. The statement was that the Blue Star burner is very close to the Garland design ,with a lower BTU output and having cooked on commercial Garlands I am very familiar with that particular burner.
As far as the oven goes ,I am inclined to agree with you ,but I have no idea how an electric oven cooks...aside from the hype about the consistency for baking.Was really trying to get opinions on the comparison of electric to gas for roasting meats.
I am rather curious as to what sort of grief your experiencing with your Blue Star, there really doesn't seem to be as much variables to go wrong as there are with an electric oven.Were they major problems or just alot of little annoying things? I think Blue Star service is more like a network of service companies that may be contracted by Blue Star,and they have a few of there own factory based service people that they can send out if they cant find someone locally.The Wolf service is actually right down the road from me so that seems a little more convenient and reliable.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

Blue Star did not just take over production. Several years ago Garland was bought out by Manitowoc. The Garland home range was a dismal failure. Poor fit and finish and other issues put them in a difficult position. Garland sold that division and it is now owned and by Prizer-Painter. The BS brand has only been around about 7 years and they have gone through three major management changes in that time frame. The 60" Garlands Vs the 60" BS share little in common save for the fact that they both have a star burner. I have never seen a Garland commercial product with dedicated simmer burner or 15k burners. All you have to do too see the major difference is try to break down a BS burner like you would on a commercial Garland range. 
The interesting thing about BS is that they started off as a cost effective product but their prices have gone way up and many of their ranges wind up costing more than Viking.
They do not have a large service network or sales network so all I will say is give that careful consideration before you buy any brand. All warranty issues are head aches. 
If you think BS sends out some one if they do not have a local service center think again. That's not the way they work. They try to send you the part they think is broken and you get stuck paying the labor for some one to fix the product. Then you get to do it all over again when the part they mailed doesn't fix the problem.
As far as an electric oven I'm not sure exactly what you are after here. Electric ovens do not operate with as large of a temperature fluctuation as gas. That's the only benefit unless you do not want the humidity of gas.
The benefits of gas, The product is more cost effective (not that this should matter to some one buying a 60" home range) AG does not require dual hook ups in your home. With AG you get a superior broiler and the direct heat of gas.
IMO gas is superior in every way for roasting meat.
Best of luck with what ever brand you get. The electronic ignition is the weak point of all of these units irrespective of whether you buy DF, AG or the brand.


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Having used all kinds of equipment in a commercial setting I would have to rate WOLF in the lower 5% of cooking equipment. I go Vulcan, and Southbend for overall endurance and less rate of repair.


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## stratoblaster (Aug 12, 2009)

Thanks again for your reply.Yes, maybe I was being too general in regards to the production of Blue Star...I know that its owned by Prizer Painter and well aware of the differences between Garland and Blue Star ....obviously the burner configuration is "non-commercial" including a simmer burner and 15000 BTU burners as opposed to the 33,000 BTU output of a commercial Garland.The STAR burner and 22000 BTU output is the main reason for me to consider the Blue Star over the Wolf, otherwise all things being equal , I would chose the Wolf.
The point you made about the cost , did surprise me...reading these old forum posts, everyone was saying that going with Blue Star would save money , pricing these things I found what your saying to be true, actually it costs a little MORE than the comparable Wolf "gas" range.
Contacting Blue Star in regard to service, I can only post what I was told and according to them, they HAVE service people of their own , however they contract local companies and try to deal with the issues that way first.I wouldn't have to pay service people to repair anything while under warranty as with any other manufacturer.The fact that I have a Sub Zero/Wolf authorized service in my area is a definite plus on the Wolf side.
I think that your right about the broiler issue ...I would hate to lose that to a heat coil on top of an electric oven and really only considered the electric due to what the chefs at Wolf have told me....they seem to think it is all around better, for baking , roasting, browning and crisping up skins and crusts etc. Wolf manufactures both gas and electric so I didn't get the impression that they were pushing one over the other, I didn't indicate that I was thinking of buying from "another" manufacturer or I'd expect them to be biased.My reason for the post is to get other peoples opinions,like yourself, because I do find it hard to believe that an electric oven would be the better choice ....ok ,maybe the baking issue , but I'm not down much with the baking. My wife does the baking and her opinion is that if she bakes delicious things now using our old junk gas oven , that a new top quality gas oven will only make them come out better.
So I'm still unclear on what your grief was with owning a Blue Star? The ignitors, lack of service, build quality? Curious as to what I should look for...I know the ignitors are a user serviceable fix and are relatively inexpensive on the Blue Star,but different story on the Wolf.Another point you brought up made me think , in the event Blue Star has economic or management problems ,it's possible that they may not be in business forever which can be an issue as the range ages.
And Ed...I agree with you on the Vulcan.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

"what your grief was with owning a Blue Star? The ignitors, lack of service, build quality"

All of the above. 

"they HAVE service people of their own"

I never said or implied that they did not. However if you are under the impression that because BS has a service rep in Chicago and your located in the UP of Mi that they are going to send a factory service rep from BS then you have been seriously misled. It means nothing at all that they have factory service techs if they are not in YOUR immediate area. If you want to buy into the marketing hey it's your money. All I can do is convey my experience with them. If you search you will find many others that have had similar experiences with BS shipping parts and if you can not install them you will have little choice but to pay to have them installed warranty or not. 
BS also omits several items in their warranty like the ignitors.
I'm at a total loss as to how Vulcan plays into a conversation about residential ranges. I've repaired more Vulcan ranges over the years than any other brand except for Garland. I don't think that means much since Vulcan and Garland exist in a lot more professional kitchens than several other brands combined.
The Wolf commercial ranges were a great product IMO not that Wolf is owned or made by the same corporation any more. Todays residential Wolf is not really any thing like the true commercial Wolf products of the past.


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## stratoblaster (Aug 12, 2009)

" However if you are under the impression that because BS has a service rep in Chicago and your located in the UP of Mi that they are going to send a factory service rep from BS then you have been seriously misled."

Not at all,

"they contract LOCAL companies and try to deal with the issues that way first."

Living in NYC , I am sure there are several companies that are able to service on the behalf of Blue Star.
I know they send parts out direct to customers and quite frankly I can't see a huge problem changing an ignitor or module.

"All I can do is convey my experience with them"

If you are frustrated with BS for any reason in particular...your not being very specific, so just to say "all of the above" is really not all that helpful.

"The electronic ignition is the weak point of all of these units irrespective of whether you buy DF, AG or the brand."

....and I would expect this with ANY brand that I chose...if a door falls off, obviously thats a different issue and I doubt any high end manufacturer has issues like that.

The original post was intended to evaluate the difference between a "residential" gas and electric oven , I'm not quite sure how it gravitated towards commercial ranges.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

I don't think I could make it any clearer that I had service related issues. BS fit and finish is poor compared to many of the other brands like Wolf. That was ok when they were less costly but now that they are one of the more expensive brands it's worthy of taking into consideration. 


""they contract LOCAL companies and try to deal with the issues that way first."

And you know this from first hand experience before you have even purchased one? :lol:
That's not always the case and I'm conveying that from first hand experience. They don't have "local" companies that are BS factory authorized repair centers in all major cities let alone all across the US. BS is a very small company compared to Wolf, Viking etc. We don't all live in NYC but if you do and have a local BS factory authorized service center near you (I thought you only mentioned having a local Wolf authorized service center?) then you are in good shape.
Lets try this one last time. BS does not warrant ignitors. Period. If you get a new ignitor from BS you will pay for it. 
In either event if I was forced to chose between a Wolf DF and a BS AG the BS would win hands down. I'd rather deal with repairs on a temporary basis than an electric oven on a permanent basis. 
IMO you really need to decide if you want DF or AG, Open burners or sealed, self cleaning ovens or not before you get down to branding.


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## stratoblaster (Aug 12, 2009)

DuckFat ...I agree with alot of the points you make. 
No, I don't know about their service first hand , only from speaking with Blue Star..obviously the best thing would be for me to ask them WHO is servicing in my area so I may speak to them about it.
I haven't seen a Blue Star yet so I am unaware of the lesser quality for the same price that you are pointing out ,but I am sure that its not built like a Wolf.I will be going to the dealer tomorrow to see the Blue Star and make a comparison to Wolf.

"I don't think I could make it any clearer that I had service related issues. "

Now..."ONE" way you could be more clear would be to state "what the service issues were..." JUST ignitor issues? did the range explode and level your block perhaps??? If you don't want to post them , then thats fine,but....ignitor issues?Well it's like a $15 part and 2 minutes with a screwdriver...I don't consider that a "SERVICE" issue. I would think they would hold up just as well as any other brands ignitors.

So i take it that you have replaced your Blue Star due to all the problems you've experienced?

"In either event if I was forced to chose between a Wolf DF and a BS AG the BS would win hands down. I'd rather deal with repairs on a temporary basis than an electric oven on a permanent basis. "

So then , forgetting about the Electric duel fuel option, what would you say about a choice between a Blue Star vs. an "AG" Wolf?

I have no doubt that the Wolf is a prettier oven but I think performance is a more important consideration than aesthetics. If I was to decide on electric then of course Wolf would be the choice.Speaking with you and others is just confirming my initial thoughts that All Gas is a better way to go.Would you agree that in an AG Blue Star would be a better choice than an All Gas Wolf,due to the 22000BTU burners?


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

"the best thing would be for me to ask them WHO is servicing in my area so I may speak to them about it"

And that that's exactly what I'm suggesting you do.
Just a friendly FYI. An igniter is closer to $60 depending on brand and or model. Replace more than one at your cost and your views may change. 
I don't get into specific repair issues because so many (IMO) take brand loyalty too far. As far as I'm concearned a range is a tool. Nothing more.

"Would you agree that in an AG Blue Star would be a better choice than an All Gas Wolf,due to the 22000BTU burners"

Not unless you have ten kids and it's important to you to save a few minutes boiling a huge pot of water every night. The 22k burners simply do not simmer as well. Depending on which BS 60" configuration you chose you may only wind up with a couple of 22k burners. The down side is that you also wind up with a couple of dedicated simmer burners. Most of the burners will be 15K which IIR is lower than Wolf. IMO about the perfect BTU for home is 15-17k because at this range they can still function at a normal simmer. This eliminates the need for dedicated simmer burners and separate high BTU burners. choosing one range over the other solely based on a few BTU's and paying more for that is a bit silly unless you have an actual need for those higher BTU's. If you configure the same size Wolf, Viking or BS range with the same number of burners you ultimately wind up with almost the exact same total burner BTU. However the burner BTU and set up is very subjective and really is an issue of personal preference.
There is a lot of marketing in these products.


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## stratoblaster (Aug 12, 2009)

Thanks again for your input.
I will do that in regard to the service...however I did inquire with the dealer on the price of the ignitor and I was quoted $15 and $50 for the module if needed.

I'm not in agreement with you on the burner issues....Wok cooking and searing requires intense heat...not to say that a 15-16k BTU is incapable, I feel a 22k BTU will out perform it in those situations.I don't know how much Wok cooking you do, but it DOES make a difference.

No matter what size BS you buy the burner configuration is the same...Two 22K burners , only One simmer and the rest of the spots are filled with 15K burners.If you order more or less thats up to the purchaser but that is what the standard configuration is. They will however, put in as many as you like as long as your willing to pay for it.

The Wolfs burners are 15K and one 9200K simmer for the dual fuel OR 16k burners all around on the AG models.I don't think the 1k BTU makes a difference, but I know the design of the burners themselves are different and function differently on a simmer.As far as configuring a Wolf oven any way you want it?...not possible, you get what they give you.

The other nice thing about the BS is that if you want to relocate any of the burners to a different location,you are able to do it.

I do appreciate your offering an opinion and your service issues do make me wonder how many other people have had such problems.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

"I was quoted $15 and $50 for the module if needed"

You work for BS right? Why else would you have prices as fictitous as that when you are trying to lead us to believe you don't even know if you have a service center in your area. How did you even get prices with out a model number or calling service?
Did you forget you posted " I haven't seen a Blue Star yet"? 
Aside from that some one is pulling your leg. Ignitors are roughly $60 and the ignition module is around $175. Now they may cost BS $15 and $50 but that surely is not what they sell those parts for. Then again what do I know. I've only had to replace them VS some that claims they have never even seen a BS. 

"I'm not in agreement with you on the burner issues"

That's ok but then why ask if you already know what you want?
Oh yea. I forgot. Your a shill for BS. :lol:


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## stratoblaster (Aug 12, 2009)

No...I don't work for Blue Star but there is this new invention called a telephone...maybe you have heard of it? You dial a number and ask the question to the dealer on the other end who answers your questions....it's a pretty unique idea.

I'm not trying to misrepresent or give false information but that is what I was quoted from the dealer I am seeing tomorrow...and yes,I will be seeing the Blue Star for the first time.If he misquoted me on those prices,then I will find out for sure tomorrow..the only thing I can state at this point is what I've been told.If you are correct about it then i apologize if your offended but there is no need to be nasty and make stupid accusations.

I DO know what I want...as far as the burners go....but if you would take the time to actually "READ" the post....it's really about the ovens,not the burners. Not to mention it wasn't really specific to Blue Star OR Wolf ,It was more directed to the performance of a gas oven as opposed to an Electric. those are just the two brands that I mentioned I'm considering , Since Blue Star doesn't even make a Duel Fuel ,Wolf would be my only choice in that configuration.
And are you sure you even owned a Blue Star ? Cause obviously you don't have your facts straight about what burners you get with the range....you can easily check it on their website.You don't have to be a Blue Star employee to get that information , even angry Blue Star owners can access that.

I was asking people who actually owned the equipment to respond to that SPECIFIC question.I wasn't expecting some disgruntled former Blue Star owner to respond with a bunch of points not specific to the question.So if your just trying just to be confrontational because you had a bad experience with Blue Star ...I'm not interested in arguing back and forth. You voiced your opinion on how you feel Gas ovens are superior to Electric.....and I thank you for your input....if you feel like arguing because your unhappy with the way Blue Star supported your purchase ,or that their parts are expensive , your argument is with them , not me.Maybe you should give THEM a call.
And as for:
"I don't get into specific repair issues because so many (IMO) take brand loyalty too far." 
Obviously your issues weren't significant enough to mention,ignitors are usually broken by the person using the range,so if its a constant problem,perhaps you should evaluate what your doing wrong.Your making it sound like everytime you turn the knob the ignitor breaks.Thanks for all your correspondence and have a great day.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

Maybe you should re-read your own posts. You asked about the 22k burners. You got an an honest answer. Neither BS or any other company will give parts pricing out over the phone. CSR's don't have parts lists or retail prices not to mention that you need a model and a serial # to get an accurate price. As far as the price of parts I think they are in line with the other products in their class but the prices you posted are way off for a 60" range. 

"And are you sure you even owned a Blue Star ? Cause obviously you don't have your facts straight about what burners you get with the range...."

Uhmm no. On the 60" range you asked about the standard configuration (assuming the top is all burners) is two 22k burners with the rest of the non-simmer burners being only 15k. In spite of your BS sound byte not all BS ranges come with even one let alone two 22k burners. 
Only a BS rep would try to find a way in several posts to suggest that I never owned the product. This is EXACTLY why I do not get into specifics. If I had you would be suggesting I have a bone to pick with BS and you've already been trying hard to push that innuendo over your last few posts. As I already noted I no longer own a BS so I have nothing to be be "disgruntled" about. Oddly enough you didn't have any objections when my opinion went against Wolf. :lol:
In regards to igniters first you tried to say they were covered by warranty which is false and now you are toting the BS line that igniters only fail based on user error. News flash! They do come defective and they do get damaged in freight. Every other residential range manufacturer in this price range covers them under warranty.
BTW I never said I replaced an igniter. I simply pointed out that your information was incorrect.
All of this doesn't change the fact that the BS service network is VERY small in spite of your repeated attempts in several directions to suggest their service is great. 
If there is one thing I really don't like about BS it's that they engage in this sort of under handed marketing. I've seen it many times on different forums. They are also one of the biggest point click advertisers for ranges. That stops a lot of people from posting accurate experiences on some of the other forums out there.
Now don't forget to tell every one that BS comes in lots of cute colors with a price that would make a Viking blush.


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## stratoblaster (Aug 12, 2009)

I've read my own posts...in the original post , burners were mentioned to indicate why I was considering the two different manufacturers, it was not posted as a question. The posts may have evolved that way , just as a discussion tends to gravitate towards different topics during the normal course of a conversation.

Your opinion of who gives prices over the phone may be valid in your area, however I got prices over the phone from three different dealers in my area...you can say or believe anything you like about that,I have no reason to lie on this forum and it was said only to make the point that an ignitor failure isn't the end of the world.

It's also not wrong what I said about burner configuration, In the RNB Series...every Range being 24" OR 60" is always supplied with TWO 22k , ONE Simmer and The REST are 15k.Try looking on the website before you claim your so called vast knowledge of the product.

For you to suggest I work for BS....is BS. I don't work for ANY appliance outfit and I really don't care to expose your love or hate for any product, the intent was to see who preferred Electric to Gas ,and why.

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder ever since your FIRST post...so maybe it's YOU that has an agenda?These things tend to get out of control when people respond to insignificant statements that have nothing to do with the original question.

"Why compare a DF range to a BS? BS is not DF. Dual fuel is only beneficial IMO if you do a ton of serious baking and even then I prefer gas.
BS is not made by Garland. BS and Garland are owned by different corporations. Garlands have higher BTU's and other design differences especially on the larger ranges Vs BS."

"Burners are either open or sealed. AFAIK Wolf DF is sealed. BS is open. Sealed burners are a RPITA (IMO) no matter how much marketing hype they give them."

Nothing to do with my question....which was..

I am more concerned with the actual oven...gas or electric.I have never cooked in an electric oven so I am not really sure if its for me or not.Working with the Chefs in the showroom at Wolf, most agree that the electric is a better choice, and they say for just about anything...baking or roasting. They mentioned that the electric doesn't have an infrared broiler, but will crisp up a poultry skin or prime rib edge better because of the multiple heat sources and the dual convection, as opposed to one heat source coming from under the pan on a gas oven.Obviously I've had crisp poultry skin from my gas oven so I'm not quite so sure that I buy that,but wondering if anyone has experience with this and can voice an opinion on it.

Best of luck with your "New" Non Blue Star Stove....and BTW i prefer Stainless Steel.:lol:


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

"I've read my own posts"

Are you sure? Lets see;

"Would you agree that in an AG Blue Star would be a better choice than an All Gas Wolf,due to the 22000BTU burners? "

Whoops that is a question mark on the end of that sentence right> :crazy:

Lets try again shall we?
"No matter what size BS you buy the burner configuration is the same...Two 22K burners "

Whoops you loose again. Words have meaning and you certainly did not qualify that statement or ever specify that you were just looking at the RNB series. Several BS ranges do not come with any 22k burners let alone two. 

And finally since I like to play by the rulz of baseball my favorite quote of the day!
"DuckFat ...I agree with alot of the points you make"

Best of luck with what ever you buy.


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## stratoblaster (Aug 12, 2009)

:talk:The ORIGINAL post....lets try THAT again ...."ORIGINAL"post.

"Would you agree that in an AG Blue Star would be a better choice than an All Gas Wolf,due to the 22000BTU burners? "

That was a question that arose from a discussion,several posts down the line, maybe you should go back and read how YOU turned it into a discussion about burners. 

Why don't you read the statements leading up to the question?

"So then , ""forgetting"" about the Electric duel fuel option, what would you say about a choice between a Blue Star vs. an "AG" Wolf?"
Different question than the original and based on your VAST EXPERTISE of the quality of the Blue Star range...

No ....your right that I didn't specify RNB ...but guess what??? The RCS series that you refer to doesn't MAKE A 60" RANGE....so it's you that loses . Again when your trying to impress upon people how much you know about a product, you should do your research first...because I said a 60" you should have known that it was an RNB if you are so knowledgeable about what Blue Star has to offer. Oh BTW... before you try ...the Heritage 60", the OTHER 60" that BS makes?....same burner configuration.Maybe your not as well versed as you think? Is that at all possible? You should maybe spend 5 minutes on their website before you respond.

"DuckFat ...I agree with alot of the points you make"
SOME... NOT ALL....and I was trying to be nice.Actually the more you say the less I happen to agree with.

This has been alot of fun ,extremely entertaining and we could probably go all nite.....but I think we've pretty much exhausted this thread...I didn't post it to start an argument over silly points that have nothing to do with my initial question.

Thanks for your best wishes on my purchase.


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## stratoblaster (Aug 12, 2009)

For the people following the post......
Blue Star has CONFIRMED via email that the ignitor LISTS for $22.73 and the module LISTS for $60.85. Most dealers give a percentage off LIST price which puts both parts in the price range that I said....$15 and $50 respectively....

So sorry Fat Duck ....you lose again.......:lol:


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

I knew better when I saw a "culinary student" talking about buying a 60" range and I think this sort of thread is exactly what you were after. I will agree with you about one thing. I lost the minute I started to participate in this thread as well as when I bought a BS. :lol:
I'll just close out by leaving a few links to other threads where numerous BS owners piped up with many ignition problems. Now you may want to note the prices that every one is paying. $50 for an igniter and $95 for a four burner ignition module. A 60" range has an ignition module that's just a wee bit larger than four burners (and more expensive). I'll also attach a video of typical BS ignition failure. Even if you get "free" parts under warranty it doesn't help any if they are just as defective as the originals.
A quote from one of the posters;

"I have been unsure whether to go with BlueStar. I have seen so many recent posts of problems that have arisen recently as well as with ranges that were installed a couple years ago. The ignitor problem, in another thread, was supposed to have been resolved. There are more and more individuals stating problems with their ranges!"

You won't have to look hard to find numerous other burner and service related problems.

http://www.thathomesite.com/forums/l...485896.html?43

YouTube - BlueStar Cooktop Ignition

Pay attention to the problem that posters on this thread had with the hinges seizing on the oven door. This has been a major problem for BS.

Cooks Illustrated Bulletin Board: Blue Star Range for $2K? - View Post


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## stratoblaster (Aug 12, 2009)

The 4 spark module LISTS for $85.79, most retailers discount of mrsp by 20-30% putting that at about $60.The ignitor is STILL THE SAME at $22.73...about $15 retail....I don't know where your getting your prices from, but maybe you were the one who was taken by your dealer.

I do agree with you on one point....your participation in the thread. You obviously came in with a chip on your shoulder about YOUR particular Blue Star experience , which is fine...but it's you who turned the thread into a war between yourself and Blue Star....that's not what the thread was intended to be.The problem with forums is people like yourself who grab onto ANY insignificant point in a thread and turn it into something its not, just to be heard and blow off steam, or maybe to prove to yourself how knowledgeable you "THINK" you are.Well you fell short this time....

Oh yeah BTW ...this "MERE" culinary student has cooked professionally for 14 years BEFORE I decided to go to Culinary school...you see,you may be one of those "OLD SCHOOL" chefs , like the ones I see all the time that think they know everything but still cook the same boring dishes they did 30 years ago , and have no clue about food trends and new techniques....so there you go again , making assumptions about things and people who you know nothing about.

As for your links?? I can post several that CONTRADICT yours,you know the internet can be a wonderful thing.... a wealth of information, however it becomes a place for people to vent. I can find links supporting or knocking ANY brand range...be it Wolf , BS, Viking ,DCS and whatever one YOU happen to own. Go on Eurostoves website and see "THEIR" videos...and BTW they sell others aside from Blue Star.

Your ignition video? There is no information , its just someone turning on the burners...the stove could've been abused or ill maintained for all we know.Maybe it was out of warranty and these people took offense to spending $15 on an ignitor that THEY broke....so they're angry BS didn't support it after they owned it for 4 years..so hey lets make a video...we'll get those BLUE STAR people for not giving us free stuff!!!..we don't know so it means nothing.

No product is 100% fool proof...manufacturers address problems they find to be chronic ones...just as Viking supposedly did with all of their "so called " problems that everyone complained about...but I wouldn't know about that, you see I'm not the type who voices an opinion without having my facts straight....I'll leave that up to people like you.

Anyway...as I said it was fun in the beginning ...now it's just boring. Thanks for your input.


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## cooknfool (Oct 5, 2010)

Many thanks for the lively debate. Preparing to reconfigure my vintage kitchen and stumbled upon the Blue Star cook tops along with this site. Wife number 1st was a chef, I used to own a restaurant and my last wife and I love to cook, so we've been looking at a lot of stuff. I'm near Baltimore and we have a place on the Delaware shore (no taxes) so I was thinking of buying there and bringing it home. There was one authorized dealer in Maryland and only a distributor in Delaware. They would sell to me but preferred that I go through their dealer. Fair enough. They have begun to offer something that they call "White Glove" service where they have a factory representative come out and inspect each install to make certain that everything is in proper working order. I would presume that this approach predates DuckFat's experiences, but certainly doesn't negate them.

The gear is made in Pennsylvania, so I figured that if I bought one and it turned out to be crap, or that a salesman had lied to me, I wouldn't have to drive too far to stomp the putz that was responsible (you really need to be decisive with these characters or they just keep doing the same thing to other people...kinda like politicians). We have Wolf and Dacor dealers nearby and I know folks that work there who warned me away from what they now offer. A friend's dad was a Vulcan tech for years and serviced just about everything under the sun, including Vikings and he pretty much scared me away from most everything else. Aside from that, any company that has decided to get in bed with Home Depot or Lowes has sold their soul to the devil and is like as not making junk, or soon will be, so any appliances seen at the Home Depot Design Center were also out of the running. (You can't meet the demands of a Home Depot or Lowes without going cheap - just look at what happened when Black & Decker decided to start selling Porter Cable tools there - but I digress).

We looked at French ranges that were quite nice...and about the price of a new Porsche, so we kept looking. Delaubrac and Lecanche were the last two from France that we considered, and they are very pretty, but I couldn't get cozy with the idea of having to deal with a company in Europe if my range malfunctioned and I felt like getting up close and personal (I've got serious issues with crappy service and liars).

Now it sounds and seems like Blue Star is more recently making attempts to put on their big boy pants and see to it that their price increase offers its customers more than just a chance to be poorer for having made their acquaintance. They meet the needs of my mental illness as far as being close enough to fly over and drop the unit on their plant if it turns out to be crap, and more importantly...regardless of their current pricing, I haven't heard of or seen anything else that didn't also have issues.

I'm assuming (and yes I know what that implies) that Blue Star is, after 7 or so years in this specific business, still growing into their market and as such will continue as any business does to have growing pains. They are saying the right things as far as responding to past issues from what I am _told_, but I may have mentioned that I have been lied to before... and by a salesman of all people. So... if not Blue Star who then?

My wife bakes cakes and I the breads and pastries. We are mainly interested in a cook top and were thinking of separate gas and electric wall ovens to compliment the Salamander since we couldn't decide which oven was best.

Stratoblaster, when wife number first was attending culinary school she, and as a consequence we, were living like poor college students. Don't know how ya swung it but I couldn't have even have dreamed of owning a 60" pro style range back then. Hell I would have been happy just being able to pay for the gas to run one. It appears that being a student has become much more lucrative since my time - back when we still killed our dinner every day with a stick and dinosaurs roamed the earth.


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## cooknfool (Oct 5, 2010)

Many thanks for the lively debate. Preparing to reconfigure my vintage kitchen and stumbled upon the Blue Star cook tops along with this site. Wife number 1st was a chef, I used to own a restaurant and my last wife and I love to cook, so we've been looking at a lot of stuff. I'm near Baltimore and we have a place on the Delaware shore (no taxes) so I was thinking of buying there and bringing it home. There was one authorized dealer in Maryland and only a distributor in Delaware. They would sell to me but preferred that I go through their dealer. Fair enough. They have begun to offer something that they call "White Glove" service where they have a factory representative come out and inspect each install to make certain that everything is in proper working order. I would presume that this approach predates DuckFat's experiences, but certainly doesn't negate them.

The gear is made in Pennsylvania, so I figured that if I bought one and it turned out to be crap, or that a salesman had lied to me, I wouldn't have to drive too far to stomp the putz that was responsible (you really need to be decisive with these characters or they just keep doing the same thing to other people...kinda like politicians). We have Wolf and Dacor dealers nearby and I know folks that work there who warned me away from what they now offer. A friend's dad was a Vulcan tech for years and serviced just about everything under the sun, including Vikings and he pretty much scared me away from most everything else. Aside from that, any company that has decided to get in bed with Home Depot or Lowes has sold their soul to the devil and is like as not making junk, or soon will be, so any appliances seen at the Home Depot Design Center were also out of the running. (You can't meet the demands of a Home Depot or Lowes without going cheap - just look at what happened when Black & Decker decided to start selling Porter Cable tools there - but I digress).

We looked at French ranges that were quite nice...and about the price of a new Porsche, so we kept looking. Delaubrac and Lecanche were the last two from France that we considered, and they are very pretty, but I couldn't get cozy with the idea of having to deal with a company in Europe if my range malfunctioned and I felt like getting up close and personal (I've got serious issues with crappy service and liars).

Now it sounds and seems like Blue Star is more recently making attempts to put on their big boy pants and see to it that their price increase offers its customers more than just a chance to be poorer for having made their acquaintance. They meet the needs of my mental illness as far as being close enough to fly over and drop the unit on their plant if it turns out to be crap, and more importantly...regardless of their current pricing, I haven't heard of or seen anything else that didn't also have issues.

I'm assuming (and yes I know what that implies) that Blue Star is, after 7 or so years in this specific business, still growing into their market and as such will continue as any business does to have growing pains. They are saying the right things as far as responding to past issues from what I am _told_, but I may have mentioned that I have been lied to before... and by a salesman of all people. So... if not Blue Star who then?

My wife bakes cakes and I the breads and pastries. We are mainly interested in a cook top and were thinking of separate gas and electric wall ovens to compliment the Salamander since we couldn't decide which oven was best.

Stratoblaster, when wife number first was attending culinary school she, and as a consequence we, were living like poor college students. Don't know how ya swung it but I couldn't have even have dreamed of owning a 60" pro style range back then. Hell I would have been happy just being able to pay for the gas to run one. It appears that being a student has become much more lucrative since my time - back when we still killed our dinner every day with a stick and dinosaurs roamed the earth.


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## stratoblaster (Aug 12, 2009)

Stratoblaster, when wife number first was attending culinary school she, and as a consequence we, were living like poor college students. Don't know how ya swung it but I couldn't have even have dreamed of owning a 60" pro style range back then. Hell I would have been happy just being able to pay for the gas to run one. It appears that being a student has become much more lucrative since my time -  back when we still killed our dinner every day with a stick and dinosaurs roamed the earth.

Cooknfool,

Just for the record...being a student of culinary doesn't necessarily mean that one is a poor starving college kid. Considering myself a student of culinary in the sense that I am always learning.I have been cooking for a long time and this post has nothing to do with my finances. If i couldn't afford to buy one I wouldn't have made this thread.

That being said, I have had several opportunities to cook on a Blue Star , Wolf and Viking since the original post. Wolf and Viking are not even worth a mention in this forum... although they are pretty, they are terribly overpriced and are horrible as far as burner performance. Although I did like the Blue Star burners, the range is lacking in many other important areas.

For me..The Capital Culinary Series is the only range ,in my opinion that out cooks a Blue Star ....and that is what I decided to purchase. The burner design is better, the oven is tremendously better and the rotisserie is just amazing. The only thing that I felt they could've done a better job on is the oven racks...but your buying a cooking machine , the rack shortcoming is just a minor annoyance considering what other features you get where it actually matters.

As for the salamander....its not quite like a pro unit....again its cute ,but not too functional. For the price they're asking, not worth it in my opinion.It seems to be more of a novelty that would undoubtedly wear off after a while when you find out as a broiler , the one in your oven will work better.

So I am unclear whether or not you actually "OWN" a Blue Star ....but I'm sure your rack of Dino-Ribs will come out fine using it.


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## lakecooking (Apr 8, 2015)

I've had a BS for over 8 years and have had one igniter issue, they sent me a new one and walked me through how to replace it. Wasn't hard.when I called to ask about what the problem could be I spoke to the same person and was not a bunch of automated push the number and never get to a real person. The design is simple and not much to break or repair, And didn't need my son to figure it out, unlike trying to hook up the tv.
I like the drip tray, brush the crumbs down and it looks nice. Not like the black or stainless that to even fry an egg you have to remove the grates and clean.
The power on the BS is by far better than wolf. And I've cooked on both.
The oven racks do not have the cool racks that glide out like some but work fine, and it you want to remove everything inside oven, 4 screws on each side is all it takes.
There are several parts to remove to deep clean on the grill that's the good and bad.
If you want a work horse that you don't have to spend half your time cleaning BS it is. Just be sure to have a great vent,


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## bbetterstewards (Aug 17, 2016)

Do  you prefer gas or electric?  Thanks


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