# Problem solved



## Ryan217 (Aug 13, 2021)

I have a recipe that I've made over a dozen times and never had an issue. However the last 3 batches I've tried to make the chocolate has seized and I can not figure out why. 

I melt the chocolate and butter together and then whisk in my sugars to cool it down before adding my eggs however the chocolate and butter are seizing when i mix in the sugar. I've listed the recipe below, any help would be great.

1kg dark chocolate
800g butter
600g white sugar
600g brown sugar

The chocolate and butter melt together fine but once the sugar is added it turns almost mud like and grainy with the butter or cocoa butter separating and goes to the top.


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## chefpeon (Jun 14, 2006)

The first thing I'd try is adding the sugars gradually. My first guess at what's happening is the addition of the sugars cools the mixture so quickly it shocks it and separates. If that doesn't solve your issue, ask yourself what has changed since the last time you made the recipe successfully. Did you switch any ingredients? Is it a different chocolate than you used before, perhaps?


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## Ryan217 (Aug 13, 2021)

chefpeon said:


> The first thing I'd try is adding the sugars gradually. My first guess at what's happening is the addition of the sugars cools the mixture so quickly it shocks it and separates. If that doesn't solve your issue, ask yourself what has changed since the last time you made the recipe successfully. Did you switch any ingredients? Is it a different chocolate than you used before, perhaps?


Hi chefpeon, thanks for the advice. 
I haven't change anything in the recipe from the ingredients to the equipment im using. 
I added the sugar bit by bit and I could almost see the point it would change from being combined to splitting. I could alter the recipe with less sugar but I can't work out the fault, after the recipe working well so many times, why it would no longer mix properly.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

How hot is your chocolate? It should be just hot enough to melt and not a degree hotter than that. Heat in Baine Marie and keep an eye on it throughout the melt. If the butter is breaking there is something really changed in your technique. A bit of grainy is okay.


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## Ryan217 (Aug 13, 2021)

brianshaw said:


> How hot is your chocolate? It should be just hot enough to melt and not a degree hotter than that. Heat in Baine Marie and keep an eye on it throughout the melt. If the butter is breaking there is something really changed in your technique. A bit of grainy is okay.


The chocolate and butter mixture is reaching 45°c. As I begin to add the sugars everything looks correct but I can virtually see the poi t where about the last 150g of sugar goes in and it seems to seperate


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

You are adding something cool to something hot.. 
Try this...Place the chocolate, butter and sugars together in the bowl and place over the steaming water with plastic wrap over the top. 
Keep an eye on it and as the chocolate melts you can stir the mixture until smooth..
I've never had a problem.


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## sgsvirgil (Mar 1, 2017)

If I had to take a guess, I would say the butter is the culprit in this mystery. Its not uncommon for the water content in butter to change, especially if its made locally. Commercially made butter can contain as much as 15% water thus necessitating that the water content be reduced as much as possible before combining with melted chocolate. Just a mere 1% change or less in the water content of your butter can cause your chocolate to seize. 

To mitigate the risk of your chocolate seizing, gently melt the butter and let the water evaporate. When the butter stops singing, the water content should be low enough to the point where it shouldn't cause your chocolate to seize. 

A better and faster fix would be to substitute shortening and a small pinch of fine salt for the butter. If you use unsalted butter, skip the pinch of salt. 

If your chocolate continues to seize despite evaporating the water content from the butter or using shortening, its obviously something else. Are you using a double boiler method? I've seen steam cause melted chocolate to seize. Perhaps the water in your boiler is to hot and producing too much steam?

Good luck.


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## chefpeon (Jun 14, 2006)

I see you changed the name of this post to "problem solved". It would be nice to know what the problem was and how you solved it, since a few of us weighed in trying to help. It'd be nice to know the ending to the story.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Sgs… I have to ask… no insult intended… but have you ever made brownies? You make it to complex. Melting chocolate and commercial butter is de rigor and has worked for generations.

and shortening??? Only when using cocoa powder instead of chocolate.

Great comment on double boiler… some folks seem to think one should actually be boiling! Ah, the potential disappointment when working with chocolate!


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## retiredbaker (Dec 29, 2019)

Ryan217 said:


> I have a recipe that I've made over a dozen times and never had an issue. However the last 3 batches I've tried to make the chocolate has seized and I can not figure out why.
> 
> I melt the chocolate and butter together and then whisk in my sugars to cool it down before adding my eggs however the chocolate and butter are seizing when i mix in the sugar. I've listed the recipe below, any help would be great.
> 
> ...


I whip the eggs and sugar into a sponge, melt choc and butter, stir to blend and pour into the egg base on low speed, add flour last. Never paid any attention to choc temps, its not for couverture work.
I boil the butter and pour it over the choc, using bitter unsweetened choc, 
let the boiled butter melt the choc and stir. No need for bain marie or dbl boiler setup.

"dark chocolate" sounds like it might be cheap, unsweetened pure choc isn't cheap.


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## chefpeon (Jun 14, 2006)

brianshaw said:


> Sgs… I have to ask… no insult intended… but have you ever made brownies? You make it to complex. Melting chocolate and commercial butter is de rigor and has worked for generations.
> 
> and shortening??? Only when using cocoa powder instead of chocolate.
> 
> Great comment on double boiler… some folks seem to think one should actually be boiling! Ah, the potential disappointment when working with chocolate!


I agree.......I've bought in some crappy butter a time or two and even with a high water content, it never seized my chocolate when I melted them together. This seems like an odd problem.....i'm very curious as to what the issue actually is.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

… or what the solution really was.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Ryan217 said:


> The chocolate and butter mixture is reaching 45°c. As I begin to add the sugars everything looks correct but I can virtually see the poi t where about the last 150g of sugar goes in and it seems to seperate


Let it cool off, and when mixing in the sugar... keep mixing to let the sugar "melt" (moisten, liquify and blend in) until smooth. Brownie batter should not be a hot (or even warm) batter.

Edited for pedants who may be taking words completely literally.


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## retiredbaker (Dec 29, 2019)

brianshaw said:


> Let it cool off, and when mixing in the sugar... keep mixing to let the sugar melt until smooth. Brownie batter should not be a hot (or even warm) batter.


sugar will not melt in choc/butter.


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## sgsvirgil (Mar 1, 2017)

brianshaw said:


> Sgs… I have to ask… no insult intended… but have you ever made brownies? You make it to complex. Melting chocolate and commercial butter is de rigor and has worked for generations.
> 
> and shortening??? Only when using cocoa powder instead of chocolate.
> 
> Great comment on double boiler… some folks seem to think one should actually be boiling! Ah, the potential disappointment when working with chocolate!


No insult taken. That's a great question.  Yes, I've made brownies but, unless I misread the OP's original post and subsequent explanations, he's having problems with the part of the recipe that calls for melting the chocolate with butter and adding sugar, no? From the way the OP described his issues, I understood it to mean that he's melting the chocolate separately and not with or as part of the other ingredients in the recipe and the chocolate seizes when he adds the sugar.

If I read his question correctly, Its still my opinion that the reason why the chocolate is gritty and seized is because of an increased water content associated with the butter. Of course, there are other causes for the gritty or seized chocolate such as it may have cooled too quickly or the chocolate may have been too hot etc etc. But, the OP specifically said his chocolate was at 45'C (113'f), which is not hot enough to burn the chocolate and happens to be the exact tempering point for milk chocolate. To that end, it would be really helpful to know what sort of chocolate the OP is using.

This is why I think its the butter.

Most butter, especially commercially made butter, is around 80% fat, about 15-20% water and the rest milk solids as compared to shortening which is 100% fat and 0% water. 0% water = 0% chance the added fat will cause grit or seize the chocolate.

Chocolate in solid form is relatively stable with a water content of about 1% or less by weight, give or take. When chocolate is melted, that stability disappears. When the slightest bit of water comes into contact with the chocolate, such as the water content in the butter, it forms tiny droplets because the water will not mix with the fat. The water will then seek out something that it can mix with which is the sugar. The water causes the sugar in the chocolate to form clumps resulting in either gritty chocolate or causes it to seize altogether if there's enough water.

There are only a limited number of causes for seized or gritty chocolate. Those causes are the chocolate was too hot and the other is water. Since the OP specifically indicated that his chocolate is at 45'C which is not hot enough to burn it, the process of elimination says its water. Unless, of course, the OP misread his thermometer. 

Since the only suspect in this chocolate murder mystery that contains water is the butter, it must be the cause.

As Sir Arthur Conan Doyle said: *"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."*

I will be happy to revisit or revise my answer should the OP provide additional details.

Cheers!


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## chefpeon (Jun 14, 2006)

@Ryan217, Hey, get back here. I want my happy ending dammit.


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## Cief Lonwind of the North (Jun 7, 2021)

Water will cause chocolate to seize. And yet, chocolate is melted into warm cream to make ganache, Cream has much more water in it than does butter. I have also melted chocolate shavings into milk to make hot chocolate. The deciding factor in these was to melt at the correct temperature, and pouring the very warm cream, or milk over the chocolate, letting the residual heat melt it while I stirred. 

I have seized chocolate by heating over a double boiler, the adding butter. The chocolate was too hot, and steam produced condensation fell into the melted chocolate. Lesson learned.

For the OPS issue, I would melt the sugar in a saucepan over very low heat, and stir in the butter. Then, I would add shaved chocolate to melt into a silky smooth consistency.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## retiredbaker (Dec 29, 2019)

Ryan217 said:


> I have a recipe that I've made over a dozen times and never had an issue. However the last 3 batches I've tried to make the chocolate has seized and I can not figure out why.
> 
> I melt the chocolate and butter together and then whisk in my sugars to cool it down before adding my eggs however the chocolate and butter are seizing when i mix in the sugar. I've listed the recipe below, any help would be great.
> 
> ...


You would benefit posting in the professional forum.


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## chefpeon (Jun 14, 2006)

retiredbaker said:


> You would benefit posting in the professional forum.


The same pros that would have weighed in if this were in the pro forum have already weighed in here basically🤣


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## retiredbaker (Dec 29, 2019)

OMG, the poor guy is getting directions for melting tempering choc to make brownies.


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## sgsvirgil (Mar 1, 2017)

retiredbaker said:


> OMG, the poor guy is getting directions for melting tempering choc to make brownies.


Like totally OMG!....that's what he asked for. His chocolate is seizing when he adds butter and sugar. That point was made abundantly clear in his opening comment.


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## harpua (May 4, 2005)

This thread is scaring me 😂

OP, once you add the eggs it will all come together. I've never been able to get this concoction smooth, but the fat separating has to do with temp.


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## Ryan217 (Aug 13, 2021)

Hey everyone I forgot that I had posted this.
Thanks for all the info.
Upon making another batch the recipe worked how it had the previous times before. The only reasons I can speculate, for the recipe not working, was either the sugars cooled the chocolate to quick and mixture seized or the batch of butter I used contained too much water.


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