# I hate Vegans (cooking)........!!!!!



## fryguy (Sep 2, 2009)

I'm really having trouble coming up with some GOOD vegan entrees......Does anyone have some idea's????? I always have some vegetarian entrees ready to go but I'm seeing more and more vegans coming in....whata ya got???


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## xjmrufinix (Mar 16, 2009)

Tofu Puttanesca, pretty much any sweet-glazed fried tofu goes over well. I do a version of palak paneer with tofu in place of the cheese, and coconut milk as a base for the curry sauce. I never feel totally satisfied with anything vegan I come up with, but I find that most vegans are just really grateful that you cared enough not to serve them some lazy last-minute pasta dish.


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## byrdie (Nov 24, 2010)

I've seen some vegan maki rolls that are pretty good. But then, I love rice. A lot of vegetarian sandwiches are vegan when they are made without cheese or vegan cheese. There are many soy based dairy alternatives. I used to drink soy milk in Korea when I was growing up.. but besides that, I never tried other products (ie. soy cheese, soy yogurt). Served with a good vegan soup (endless options, there), I'd say that's a good vegan lunch entree.

Without those alternatives on hands, it's hard to be creative. I see a lot more vegan dessert than entrees.. Why is that??

When trying to come up with specials, or just whenever, I often go to http://www.tastespotting.com/. I look at this site like a sex addict looking at porn sites at night. I typed 'vegan' in the search box and there's loads of goodies.

When all else fails, there's always beer.. with some vitamin pills, maybe.

I couldn't help notice you're in Portland. I'm relocating to Portland next month.. I hope to find a job there pretty soon. It seems like nobody wants to hire a guy couple thousand miles away.


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## butzy (Jan 8, 2010)

3 bean salad?

I've done a butternut curry, kashmiri style for some vegans as well.

Something with sweet potatoes maybe?


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

If they are true Vegans they wont go to just any restaurnt.


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

vegans....despite the ungodly gray color of their skin, they will most likely outlive us all. we see our fair share of vegans at the ranch as it just seems to attract people with healthier eating habits. most, i must say, are very grateful that you put as much care in their dinners as regular diners..they are use to getting 'sub par' fare outside their homes. as to what works?.. any kind of grain...quinoa, barley, farro etc., there are literally hundreds of different rices...red jasmine, basmatti, wild etc. all sorts of pastas, veggies.....just a plate of sauteed vegetables with pasta or rice, flavored however you like...saffron, asian, african, caribbean, italian, indian...skies the limit on flavors...you know the drill....no butter, cheese, dairy...i like stuffing things, like portobello mushrooms, acorn squash, poblanos etc....spaghetti squash is great, spinach enchiladas...there is tempeh, but i find the stuff horrid..of course tofu can be done in a myriad of different ways. i also use alot of dried fruits and nuts....i don't know what kind of food your restaurant serves(fast, casual, fine dining), and if you want to have just a couple of things to offer....other than fast food, you will most probably always have vegetables of some sort and rice or pasta....good thing about the stuffed foods is that they can be prepped ahead. my challenge at the ranch is that we have the same vegan guest sometimes for 3 or 4 days and so our offerings have to change daily. the real pitas are the gluten free vegans...vegans....they are here to stay, like it or not....and they are  growing!

joey 

forgot to mention, stuffed roasted potatoes...sweet potatoes, russets... both topped with veggies

legumes, legumes, legumes...lots of protein there

polenta, as a base for marinara or roasted vegetables


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

*Pharaoh's Pyramids* an Eggplant pyramid filled with three Onion Couscous. on a bed of Sun Dried Tomato Hummous Sauce and surrounded by roasted Cauliflower tossed with Dates and Pine Nuts

*Grilled Stuffed Cucumber *sprouted Mung, Adzuki, Lentil, and Garbanzo Beans; brushed with Chile Oil, grilled and topped with a Sesame Spinach Sauce and sprinkled with Aji Nori Furikake

*Indian Style Lentil Cakes *Patties made with Lentils, Corn, Zucchini, Fennel, Onion, and Celery, pan sauteed and topped with Curried Red Onions, then drizzled with a Mint and Coriander Raita

*Grilled Stuffed Pattypan Squash *stuffed with Cauliflower, Sun Dried Tomatoes, and Swiss Chard, with a toasted Walnut Sauce

*Moroccan Eggplant *brushed with Charmoula, grilled, and served on a bed of Fruited Couscous and topped with a spiced Apricot Sauce

*Farmers Market Tomatoes *local vine ripened Tomatoes stuffed with Spinach, Napa Cabbage,Kolhrabi, Tofu, and toasted Walnuts Cabbage, then baked and topped with a Green Grape Garlic Sauce

*Macedonian Stuffed Tomato *a Hot House Tomato stuffed with Wheat Berries, Green Chile, Garlic, Parsley, and Rosemary, baked, topped with a Lemon Rosemary Vinaigrette

*Double Mustard Stuffed Onions *Sweet Yellow Onions stuffed with Mustard Greens, Radicchio, Sweet Potatoes, Yucca, Green Cabbage, and Spinach, then baked and topped with a Creole Mustard Sauce

*Moong Dhal *East Indian Green Lentil Stew. with Black Mustard Seeds, Cumin, Red Onions, Spinach, and Romas with a spicy Coconut and Date Broth
*Tea Crusted Tofu and a trio of Greens *Tofu seasoned with Green Tea sautéed with Asian Pear Apples, Radishes, Cherry Tomatoes, Enokii Mushrooms and served on a bed of pan seared Bok Choy, Dandelion, and Beet Greens
*Low Country Stacks *Stacks of braised Parsnip and grilled Green Tomatoes, topped with a Sauce Piquante and a julienne of deep fried Parsnip

*Hoppin' John Cakes *Cakes made from Black Eyed Peas, Garlic, Jalapenoes, and Wild Rice, sautéed and topped with a Tequila, Lime Salsa Sauce
*Kenyan Vegetable Curry *an African Vegetable Curry with Potatoes, Green Beans, Green Peas, Cauliflower, and Collard Greens served on top of Black Eyed Pea Pancakes

*Turkish Eggplant and Lentil Stew with Pomegranate Molasses*a slowly simmered stew of Eggplant, Lentils, Onions, Tomatoes, and Anaheim Chiles, seasoned with Mint and Red Pepper Flakes, and drizzled with Pomegranate Molasses

*Stuffed Jonagold Apples*, stuffed with Oyster Mushrooms and Mustard Greens, baked in a hot oven and topped with an Apple Cider Sauce

*Awendaw Stacks *a Native American Cornbread, grilled, layered with grilled Portobello slices and braised Greens, topped with another slice of Awendaw and smothered with a Vegetarian Brown Sauce


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

wow Layne, that's a serious vegan menu.....

I've actually catered a vegan/celiac wedding, thank goodness it was in July.

Corn risotto, finish with earthbalance creamer/ butter-like spread, fresh corn too.

Red pepper stuffed with quinoa, raisins (or currants, or golden raisins), cashews, onions....romesco type sauce, fried chickpea garnish....

Pasta with miso sauce, slivers of different colors of beets....top with chives

Vegetable fricasse.....fingerlings, artichokes, chippolines, haricot verte, whatever mixes well with the combo, in a tarragon/dillweed/chive, white wine, veg stock sauce.

Lighter is Asian lettuce wraps using fried tofu/bamboo shoots/fresh water chestnuts/carrots/daikon...pimped out hoisin sauce...chopped nuts/scallions on top.

Parsnip & carrot ribbons with morels or mushrooms sauteed with garlic scapes or something on that order on top....


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

This has been a recipe I adapt for vegetarians a lot.

http://www.nickstellino.com/recipes_display.asp?ind=509

Sub the chicken stock with a little wine, or vegie stock, use some more olives to offset the cheese saltiness. Fairly versatile pasta dish and popular with the meat eaters too. Granted, you'll have to adapt it a little further for restaurant use instead of home use.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

phatch said:


> This has been a recipe I adapt for vegetarians a lot.
> 
> http://www.nickstellino.com/recipes_display.asp?ind=509
> 
> Sub the chicken stock with a little wine, or vegie stock, use some more olives to offset the cheese saltiness. Fairly versatile pasta dish and popular with the meat eaters too. Granted, you'll have to adapt it a little further for restaurant use instead of home use.


Perhaps I'm misinformed, but for vegans, wouldn't subs have to be found for:

Heavy cream
Butter
Parmesan cheese
as well as totally replacing the chicken stock with vegetable stock?

BTA,WTHDIK


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Hmm. I've made this recipe for years from the orginal broadcast. Cream and butter weren't on it then, or at least in what I wrote down. Perhaps he had to adapt it for publsihing on the website to not infringe the copyright in the book? I didn't read it closely on the website as I assumed it would match the original version. Maybe my brain is going.

But yes, you're right, they would have to be adapted out as written.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

I'm not nuts. The original didn't have the butter or cream.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Mp...&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Very interesting. As to the cheese, I meant to replace the saltiness of the cheese with some extra olives.


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## ljokjel (Jul 1, 2009)

I have a guest I think you would love, right now.

Shes vegetarian, and unable to digest fat. So that means, no nuts, no oils, no butter, cream, avocado, eggyolks etc.

Having a 3course menu, for 7 days.

Gotta love that kind of guests.


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## transchef (Feb 25, 2011)

The problem with cooked vegetarian dishes is texture. Tofu loses its shape when too moist. Mixed vegetables just don't look appetizing, and if composed, they look like they are prepared as mise en place. To solve, dehydrate anything that can be a substitute for protein and cook it like you do in meat dishes. Pasta with dehydrated shiitake chips does not look nasty. If you do it right, the chips taste even better than bacon. Dehydration works that even a slab of tofu can have a white chicken meat consistency if done right.


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## lentil (Sep 8, 2003)

Some nice ideas here!  Sometimes I think people with specials diets just like to hear themselves say it.  There are usually vegan and vegetarian choices on every menu, and if vegans and vegs go to regular restaurants, they're not expecting a dish like cheflayne posted (although they all sound wonderful!).   What they're not looking for is something that mimics meat.  Making tofo or anything look like chicken or taste better than bacon is  missing the point.


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## ironicona (Feb 28, 2011)

Well your thread title made me laugh   You hate vegans, but you want to cater to them? If theyre just that much of a nuisance are you sure you want to?


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## bhirsch (Jun 23, 2008)

I love my meat but I also love Horizons restaurant in Philadelphia. It's vegan and wonderful. The owners, Rich Landau and Kate Jacoby, have published two cookbooks. I have one and can recommend it, and will be getting the other.


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## jessinohio (Sep 5, 2011)

As a vegan, I'd like to add that protein makes a meal.  Please fill us up!  A can of beans go a long way.  Tofu is tough to do right, so unless your line has practiced, it's probably not a go-to option for that once-in-a-blue-moon vegan.  Veggies w/ pasta are boring & I feel like professional chefs ought to be able to do better.  Of course, I always say I'm vegan as I make my reservation & call again that morning to make sure the kitchen has gotten the message -- so there's no excuse for pasta & veg.  Depending on the fanciness of your restaurant, truffle oil is awesome for making regular veg cuisine special (whipped potatoes with truffle oil?  yes, please).  Smoked salt makes regular vegetables richer.  It's tough to get that umame (sp?) flavor in vegetarian fare, but smoked salt & mushrooms help.

To sum up, give us protein & deep, rich flavor, and avoid pasta & veg and you'll have many happy yelp.com posts from satisfied vegans.  And we are a loyal patronage.

p.s. If you keep a drinkbox or two of aseptically packaged soymilk on a dusty shelf in the back somewhere (at about $1 a piece), and are then able to offer soy milk with that vegan's coffee...she will kiss your feet.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

_*cheflayne*_, your post was dyn'o'mite, yours too _*shroomgirl*_. I hope I'm not doubling up too much with this one, at least I'm including pics. LOL @ Me I guess. I make this same type of dish using a "couscous tabbouleh" mix. I stuff it in either peppers or tomatoes. 

 *TreeHugger:* _30+ New Posts a Day_

*Simple and Savory Stuffed Peppers*

_by:_ Jerry James Stone

FOOD & HEALTH

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2011/04/simple-and-savory-stuffed-peppers.php

 

 

_***_ Swap out the _"shaved parmesan cheese"_ for whatever you like replacement-wise, and your good-to-go, I think.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

jessinohio said:


> ...Veggies w/ pasta are boring & I feel like professional chefs ought to be able to do better. ..


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## coconut (May 15, 2011)

I KNOW I KNOW! A great vegan entree is coconut curry chick pea chana served with rice. Its super amazing.


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## uptownkevin (Sep 15, 2006)

jessinohio said:


> Veggies w/ pasta are boring & I feel like professional chefs ought to be able to do better. Of course, I always say I'm vegan as I make my reservation & call again that morning to make sure the kitchen has gotten the message -- so there's no excuse for pasta & veg. Depending on the fanciness of your restaurant, truffle oil is awesome for making regular veg cuisine special (whipped potatoes with truffle oil? yes, please). Smoked salt makes regular vegetables richer. It's tough to get that umame (sp?) flavor in vegetarian fare, but smoked salt & mushrooms help.


As Pete pointed out above, the restaurant world does not work the way it does on TV shows like Chopped or Top Chef. There is no loaded pantry of expensive and diverse goodies waiting for an ambitious chef to prepare a dynamite and earth shattering creation. Restaurant kitchens have whatever is on hand (and the bare minimum, if financially run well) to execute the menu. It is great that you call ahead, but what about pricing for those dishes? Although I am not a fan of vegan or vegetarian cooking, I admit that there's good reason to have restaurants devoted to that type of food and cooking.


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## jessinohio (Sep 5, 2011)

@Pete: I've never been turned down (when I ask in advance) -- and USUALLY I get an amazing meal and amazing service.  In my family extended, I'm the only vegan & we often judge restaurant based on how great my meal is.  My favorite meal of all time was at Boule in NYC where even the amuse bouche were made vegan for me.  Of course they had a month to plan and we were paying for it!  In contrast, on the same trip we went to Daniel in NYC (this was many years ago) and they just fell flat on the vegan stuff.  And their whole schtick is inventive food!  At that price-point, they can run out and get some truffle oil just for that one night.  But...these restaurants are obviously in another class.

Now, at a less fancy restaurant, I get what I pay for.  I wouldn't expect Applebee's to come up with something awesome (vegan or otherwise). At mid-priced restaurants I often look around on the menu and ask if they can make something given the raw ingredients available (again, calling ahead when possible).  What I *LOVE* is when the staff has already looked at their own menu, thought about what might make an interesting, filling meal for weird eaters (vegans, gluten-free, etc) and can recommend that item.  For example, "We can make this dish vegan."  Couldn't there be a vegetarian option on the menu (often there is) that veganizeable for the one vegan that comes in a week?  If you have an awesome vegan option -- word will get around and the vegans will come out of the woodwork.

I've never worked in a kitchen, so I'm certainly just offering thoughts from the consumer side of things, but there are a few shelf-stable items (aseptic soy-milk, can of beans, smoked salt) that would last virtually forever.  These would not have to be thrown out at the end of the service, week, or even year (I imagine aseptic soy-milk does have some kind of expiration date, but it's at least a year).

And, if you must offer the dreaded pasta primavera, please make it excellent.  Please don't overcook the vegetables.  And consider adding some beans.


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## jessinohio (Sep 5, 2011)

Also, re: price of the dish -- perhaps this is another reason to have an easily "veganizeable" vegetarian option on the menu.  Then you can just sub out the risotto for rice (for example) and charge the same.  Or charge a few dollars more for the trouble.

re: dessert -- I don't expect to get vegan dessert when eating out.  Sometimes there's sorbet on the menu, but even that is rare and a special treat (and often not vegan anyway).

Finally, if you're the kind of place that has a hamburger on the menu, wouldn't it be easy to have a few frozen veggie patties in the back?  They must last 6 months in the freezer.  Most places now do allow a substitution for a veggie patty.  I get the sense, though, that hamburger joints are not the kind of kitchens you all run.


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## chefgord (Sep 28, 2009)

We did a vegan/vegetarian wedding about a month ago. Grilled tofu curry, panseared polenta cakes with asian slaw, grilled vegetable phyllo wraps, tricolored quinoa chili salad w/dried fruits & nutz, some other things i cannot recall.

It actually all came out pretty nice with the amount of color.


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## haole (Jul 9, 2011)

Earth Balance for butter

Silk makes a vegan heavy cream (They sell it in bulk at a large discount, although a lot of suppliers don't carry it, or to cheat, you can just add a slurry to soy milk)
Balsamic Vinager for parm



PeteMcCracken said:


> Perhaps I'm misinformed, but for vegans, wouldn't subs have to be found for:
> 
> Heavy cream
> Butter
> ...


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## jaybob (Jan 25, 2011)

I had a group that I catered for that were vegan, and even though it started as a PIA, it turned into something I looked forward too.

They ended up moving on (out of the country), but I had purchased a couple books that had some pretty fun looking ideas in them.

"Veganomicon" and "Vegan Cupcakes Take Over the World."

Not that I could ever become Vegan, but I recently watched the movie "Forks over Knives."  It never says "vegan," but it instead uses the term, "Plant based, whole foods."  

The last part of the movie has one of the doctor/researchers saying that some people find this diet extreme.  He thinks having your chest split open and veins from your leg sown to your heart to be pretty extreme.

J


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## left4bread (May 8, 2009)

Uggg...

"Forks over Knives"

I made it 5 minutes in and turned it off.

maybe i'll give it another shot.

Gave a pretense of arrogance.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

Cut summer squad lengthwise on a mandoline. Roll it up and stuff it with a mixture of legumes, vegetables, aromatics, etc. Sweat things like fennel, leeks, shallot, garlic, etc, add to pureed beans.  Make a celery root, parsnip, cauliflower or other white puree for the "cream" sauce. Emulsify evoo to enrich and thicken the "cream" sauce. Nappe the canneloni with sauce, broil to color. 

Cut corn off the cob. Juice some of the corn kernels, and reserve the rest. Thicken the corn juice on a double boiler, add some herbs if you want. Roast the corn kernels. make a corn stock with the cobbs. Make a risotto with rice and the corn stock, thicken/enrich with corn milk and olive oil, toss in roasted corn at the end. This gives you a very nice, summery corn risotto that can be served on its own, or makes a wonderful bed for other stuff. Tarragon, thyme, basil are all great herbs for the risotto. Mushrooms are great with this too...pickled chantarelles, roasted chantarelles, etc. 

You can add flavorings to vegan food by adding some unusual ingredients. Smoke some salt, and use it to flavor a bean dish. Not quite the same, but helps impart some of the smokiness missing from things like bacon. 

When using bread it is important to make sure the bread is vegan. A lot of bread has milk proteins and other things derived from animals in them. Best to buy specifically "vegan" bread to make sure, or make your own. A riff on a panzanella salad would make a nice first course. 

People should keep in mind that, strictly speaking, most wine is not vegan. Most wines go through a clarification process where almost all of the ingredients and methods use contain animal products, whether gelatin, albumen proteins, etc. This would mean to, by default, that vinegar is also not strictly speaking, vegan. 

But, I've never had a vegan complain or say anything about me using wine/vinegar when cooking for them, so who knows how many people know/care? Just an FYI. 

Chilled summer soups can be great for vegans...both tomato/red gazpacho, as well as the traditional ajo blanco, with vegan bread. Melon coup can work as well.


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## alergkvegtarian (Feb 8, 2012)

Tofu:

1) Cut into thin strips, almost bite sized. If you freeze this, then when unthawed, the tofu will have a chewy, spongy texture.

2) For "Beef": Cook in a pan of water (to cover) with  allspice, Bragg's Liquid amino (gluten free), rosemary, cloves, cardamom, ginger, Sweet Basil - until the water is completely gone. Then fry as usual.

3) For "Chicken": I use Tumeric, Cilantro, Sage, Savory, Rosemary, Ginger. Use the method above for cooking.

FYI: Soy Beans and Quinoa are complete proteins. Dals and Beans are full of fiber, so helps fills up the Vegan. Rice provides carbs that are still needed on a Vegan diet.

Ideas:

Stuff Vegetables with Dals, beans, rice and other vegetables. Top with Vegan cheese and a sauce.

Slice vegetables into slabs, and use as "bread" to stuff other ingredients between.

Use a food processor to cut vegetables into various shapes and sizes.

Add diced Apricots or Raisins to Punjabi inspired meals.

Portobello Mushrooms gives food a meaty flavour, and works well in sandwiches.

Banana and Apple sauces works as a good binder in some bakery recipes (as a substitute for eggs)

Tofu pureed, can be mixed with spices, rolled oats and mushrooms then put in a bread loaf to make meatloaf.

Nightshade free nomato sauce: Use Beets, carrots and seasonings - puree together. (No Cayenne or chili peppers, etc.)

Wrap a dal or bean/rice dish in Cabbage leaves. Pour Tomato sauce over. Add sliced tomatoes, and Italian parsley on top.

Cheese:

Daiya Cheese is the number one most loved Vegan Cheese. It also melts and goes well on pizzas.

Teese Cheese is also vegan and works on Pizzas. I'd add seasoning to their cheese as it is a little bland.

Tinkyada Noodles are the number one Gluten free noodle.

For the Raw Foodist: Cut vegetables into spirals or noodles. Make a sauce out of chopped roma tomatoes, portobello mushrooms and spices. Add sprouted beans, Cashews and Chia seeds.

You can make a milk out of almonds or use coconut milk.

They have a recipe online for a Garlic bread that uses psyllium. It needs to be dehydrated, but it gives you a good spongy raw foods bread.

Usually, they'll go find a Raw Foods restaurant to eat at, but if they are desperate, this would at least be something besides "salad".


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## alergkvegtarian (Feb 8, 2012)

In addition, some vegans won't eat honey either because a Bee actually made it.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

_*Did you ever eat a pine cone? ... Many parts are edible. *_


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

I'm confused! Why would a vegetarian/vegan want a meal that tastes like meat?


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## davehriver (Jan 13, 2012)

It seems to me that every restaurant , especially fine dining, should have vegetarian (may as well make it vegan) options on the menu.  That just seems like good business.  I run a BBQ trailer and we offer house made veggie burgers, and often sandwiches of grilled squash or eggplant.  I think that a fine dinning establishment could have some great vegan offerings on the appetizer menu that could be upsized for vegans.  There are tons of great recipes in this thread that would work that way.  I love meat, hell I run a BBQ trailer, but I often order meat free appetizers.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

> That just seems like good business.


Couldn't agree with you more, but I will defend to the death, the right of business owners to be stubborn (I was going to say pig-headed, but didn't want to offend anyone's sensibilities).


> It seems to me that every restaurant , especially fine dining, should have vegetarian (may as well make it vegan) options on the menu.


I usually had about 14 entrees on my weekly changing menu and 3 would be vegetarian, with 1 being vegan. Just being curious though, how many people would go to a fine dining vegetarian restaurant and expect carnivore options. I believe I know the answer, but my question is why?


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## alticibi (Feb 2, 2012)

Assuming this is the same Chef Layne from a year ago! Had this question before, but now that ya jumped back in I thought it was fair game again! 

On these guys from your menu...what do you use for a binder to keep them Vegan? I have a great "veggie" burger, but use some non-vegan things to hold it together...and I have been getting requests for a Vegan version...nobody as pushy as in this thread...  I just want to see if it is worth my time to come up with an alternate or replacement...Texture is important to keep the right balance of moisture, tenderness...etc. Thanks!

*Indian Style Lentil Cakes *Patties made with Lentils, Corn, Zucchini, Fennel, Onion, and Celery, pan sauteed and topped with Curried Red Onions, then drizzled with a Mint and Coriander Raita


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## bonesdilligaf (Feb 10, 2012)

i am just curious,

i have no vegan or even vegetarian items planned for my menus.

sure, a vegetarian could find things to eat, and I could certainly whip up something special for one.

but vegan?  that's a whole different animal.

do any of you really feel that we need to cater to a vegan diner?

I am all for their choices and all, but not at my place.

am i really out of touch here?


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

> Originally Posted by *Bonesdilligaf*
> 
> ...do any of you really feel that we need to cater to a vegan diner?.


Perhaps when vegan restaurants begin catering to non-vegans?

Look, when one is dealing with food preferences, remember it is *preferences!*

Dickies B-B-Q just opened in our town, do you really expect them to offer

Seafood
Steaks
Vegetarian plates
Vegan plates
Raw food options
Low fat alternatives
Mexican food
Thai curries
etc.
for goodness sake, they don't even offer a burger and fries! And they sure don't have tofu!

Why would they? The sign out front says "Dickies B-B-Q"!

A pizza place sells pizzas and is full of wheat dust. Why in the world would you *expect* to find gluten free options? If someone did offer something like that, wonderful, but to expect it? You are kidding, right?

I have absolutely nothing against a restaurant that wants to cater to specific food preferences, more power and good luck to them.

I have *absolutely everything against ANYONE telling me what options I have to offer!*

Just as you are free to ask me whether I am able to serve xyz preference, I am free to say no.

Perhaps when xyz preference becomes a significant percentage of my market population, I may change my mind, *but just because someone else thinks it is a good idea* is no reason to force me to change just to make them happy.

You know, I wear size 13A shoes and the closest shoe store that carries *ANY* shoes of my size is 200 miles away. Just think, if my local shoe store carried my size how much of my business they would get, obviously probably 100%. How often do I buy shoes? Um, once every two to three years and my purchases are probably something around 0.000001% of the gross income of the local shoes store. Now, if there were more than 1 out of 55,000 that wore 13 As, at some point it DOES make sense to carry my size, but that is the shoe store owner's decision, not mine.


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## alergkvegtarian (Feb 8, 2012)

Binder for Vegans: Pureed Tofu actually does work as a binder in some dishes. I make Vegan Meatloaf using Pureed Tofu, Mushrooms and spices. I then put it in the oven.

Ener-G Egg replacer also works in baking. 1/2 a banana substitutes for 1 egg and works well in baking. Psyllium makes a bread spongy and is used in Raw Foods Garlic bread. http://www.therawchef.com/chef/free-videos/

Why meatless Meat? Some of us LOVE meats and chickens but became allergic to them, so had to go Vegan/Vegetarian. I'm one of them.

Why cater? Sometimes, no matter how hard we (anyone with a special diet) try, we can not get out of going out of town because of Works requirements. Also, some of us love to go on holidays/vacations. What would our life be like if we could not get a kitchenette and no one would feed us? Very sad. Think about how you would feel if you were in our shoes. Believe me, after going to three restaurants and being turned away in a major city, you feel sad, very hungry and want to cry. You also feel discriminated against because the restaurant serves rice or noodles and refused to even serve you plain noodles with nothing on it. Pathetic! (I'm actually supposed to be gluten free due to celiac, but will eat noodles if nothing is available.)

Now consider how you would feel if you went through this while on a date and you were the female? I'm not married because of my food allergies. I've not found anyone who could handle watching me go with out. They felt bad for me and then ran. I don't blame them really. I had wanted to run so many times.


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## bonesdilligaf (Feb 10, 2012)

PeteMcCracken said:


> Perhaps when vegan restaurants begin catering to non-vegans?
> 
> Look, when one is dealing with food preferences, remember it is *preferences!*
> 
> ...


well said...

but now off topic...

this is the second time someone said they had problems finding shoes in size 13...

what the hell? I wear a 13 and except for a visit to China, I can always find shoes...

my youngest kid however (20 and 6'7") wears a 15, his shoes are a challenge..lol


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Alticibi said:


> Assuming this is the same Chef Layne from a year ago! Had this question before, but now that ya jumped back in I thought it was fair game again!
> 
> On these guys from your menu...what do you use for a binder to keep them Vegan? I have a great "veggie" burger, but use some non-vegan things to hold it together...and I have been getting requests for a Vegan version...nobody as pushy as in this thread...  I just want to see if it is worth my time to come up with an alternate or replacement...Texture is important to keep the right balance of moisture, tenderness...etc. Thanks!
> 
> *Indian Style Lentil Cakes *Patties made with Lentils, Corn, Zucchini, Fennel, Onion, and Celery, pan sauteed and topped with Curried Red Onions, then drizzled with a Mint and Coriander Raita


In the case of these lentil cakes, I used some of the lentils themselves ground into a paste to act as a binder. Rolled oats also make a good binder, as does rice and panko. Just be aware that not all panko is vegan, one major brand is made with honey and butter.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

cheflayne said:


> Just being curious though, how many people would go to a fine dining vegetarian restaurant and expect carnivore options. I believe I know the answer, but my question is why?


Just to change the question around a little, how many people would go to a fine dining vegetarian restaurant and expect vegan options.

I recently perused the pre fixe menu from Saturday night at Greens restaurant in San Francisco, which is IMO one of the premier vegetarian restaurant in the USA. The menu was a 4 course offering. The first course was not vegan. The second included 5 offerings, with 1 possibly being vegan. The third course included 3 offerings and depending upon how they make their crepes, none were vegan. I didn't look at the dessert menu.

Now that is not say that Greens would not accommodate vegans. They might easily and graciously do just that with that very menu. I don't know!

But what about raw food vegetarians?

What about raw food vegans?

The point I am trying make is that any time a chef and or restaurateurs go public with their visions, there is bound to be someone who has a different vision. At some point, a line has to be drawn in the sand, otherwise insanity ensues. Even so, that line is going to offend someone's sensibilities, guaranteed.

*CATCH 22 !!!*


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## haole (Jul 9, 2011)

What type of cuisine? What are your staple seasonings?


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## davehriver (Jan 13, 2012)

Cooked potato makes a great binder for veggie cake/burgers.


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## pirate-chef (Jan 25, 2012)

I am happy to make an exception to someone with a allergy beyond that i feel being vegetarian or vegan is a life choice and an option based on someone having too many choices of what to eat presented to them or pushing for attention and i am unwilling to cater. Travel a little to places where people barely survive and offer you a meal with maybe a small bit of fish and tell them you wont eat it because it is unethical....... sorry but its not an allergy so i am unwilling to run circles based on your beliefs .


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## alergkvegtarian (Feb 8, 2012)

Personally, I think that Vegans and Vegetarians are best served going to restaurants that cater to them because that way they will get a complete meal that is healthy. However, it should be really easy to just leave the chicken or meat off the platter. It really can't be that difficult to toss something together on the fly for a Vegan/Vegetarian where they aren't at a Steak House. I've made a quickie soup out of mixed vegetables and crushed tomatoes. Added rice and called it a meal. I was out of beans. The only time it took was to cook the vegetables, add it to the tomatoes, add the spices and heat it up.

I've even made a Chili in a quick. Of course, that time I was at home and had forgotten to start supper. I was a teenager about to get yelled at by my parents if they found out I had forgotten to start supper. They walked in that door, and supper was done - in ten minutes flat.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

AlergkVegtarian said:


> ...I've even made a Chili in a quick. Of course, that time I was at home and had forgotten to start supper. I was a teenager about to get yelled at by my parents if they found out I had forgotten to start supper. They walked in that door, and supper was done - in ten minutes flat.


Yes, but were you getting two steak dinners, three fish plates, six grilled hamburgers, and for risottos ready at the same time? /img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif

You are probably correct for a home kitchen, but for a restaurant that is doing 180 covers an hour, BTW, that's three every minute, five minutes to prepare one vegetarian/vegan order may mean fifteen other people will have to wait!


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## pirate-chef (Jan 25, 2012)

Pete I cant agree with you more, especially when most sauces, sides etc have touched some form of animal being stock, gelatin etc to make something special mid rush....


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## alergkvegtarian (Feb 8, 2012)

PeteMcCracken said:


> Yes, but were you getting two steak dinners, three fish plates, six grilled hamburgers, and for risottos ready at the same time? /img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif
> 
> You are probably correct for a home kitchen, but for a restaurant that is doing 180 covers an hour, BTW, that's three every minute, five minutes to prepare one vegetarian/vegan order may mean fifteen other people will have to wait!


Good Earth restaurant when they were very busy (graduation with everyone thinking alike) was able to serve me a Allergy free Vegan dish with sauce made from scratch. I was served a noodle dish with a custom sauce made out of tomatoes, cayenne, sweet basil and olive oil with added beans and spinach. That chef was amazing! BTW, I had no say in when we ate nor where we ate.

And that chili... I was a teenager. Now I can make a Vegan chili in almost 1 minute plus heating up time - that includes opening up a can of beans and a can of crushed tomato, tossing in the mushrooms (portobello and button), spinach or peas and using spice blend. Add two minutes if I have to accommodate a nightshade allergy and puree beets instead of using tomatoes. And maybe another minute and a half to add in spices one at a time due to Cayenne being in that spice blend. However, I would have a nightshade free spice blend already bottled and ready to grab in a pinch, because I can. I'd argue that the Vegan chili took less time. BTW Tomato sauce can be faked using beets with one carrot added, pureed together.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Not doubting you however, the restaurant HAD to have the raw ingredients available. Suppose they did not have canned tomatoes, sweet basil, beans, and spinach?



AlergkVegtarian said:


> Good Earth restaurant when they were very busy (graduation with everyone thinking alike) was able to serve me a Allergy free Vegan dish with sauce made from scratch. I was served a noodle dish with a custom sauce made out of tomatoes, cayenne, sweet basil and olive oil with added beans and spinach. That chef was amazing! BTW, I had no say in when we ate nor where we ate.
> 
> And that chili... I was a teenager. Now I can make a Vegan chili in almost 1 minute plus heating up time - that includes opening up a can of beans and a can of crushed tomato, tossing in the mushrooms (portobello and button), spinach or peas and using spice blend. Add two minutes if I have to accommodate a nightshade allergy and puree beets instead of using tomatoes. And maybe another minute and a half to add in spices one at a time due to Cayenne being in that spice blend. However, I would have a nightshade free spice blend already bottled and ready to grab in a pinch, because I can. I'd argue that the Vegan chili took less time. BTW Tomato sauce can be faked using beets with one carrot added, pureed together.


I reiterate, if one has:

the ingredients on hand, and
the staff available to take the time for special orders, and
the space and labor to prep items during service, and
the Chef, or even one or two line cooks, have the knowledge, and
the owner/manager/chef desires to serve a special need
you are absolutely correct.

When my restaurant was open, I did not stock

Canned beans, nor
Canned tomatoes, nor
Spinach, nor
Beets, nor
Carrots, nor
Tofu, nor
Gluten free products of any kind, nor
anything else not on my active menu
My restaurant had one place to prep, cook, and plate. Clean pans, not a problem, clean utensils, not a problem, gluten free cutting boards? Impossible. Gluten free pans, utensils, counter tops? Probably not, I certainly would not stop and strip the kitchen to do so. No peanut oil, residue, or nuts? Um, I cook with peanut oil, peanut butter, and other peanut products, that is why there is an allergy warning at the front door listing gluten, peanuts, dairy products, etc.

You want margarine? Not in my restaurant. You want tofu? Not in my restaurant. You want Korean food? Not in my restaurant. You want Sashimi or Sushi? Not in my restaurant. You want Chicken Fried Steak and it is not on the menu? Forget it.

My menu was posted readable from outside the restaurant. It clearly states NO SUBSTITUTIONS.

I sympathize with your eating restrictions and desires. However, I cannot afford to use my limited facilities to be prepared to serve the less than 1% of my market and have a hope of staying in business. Perhaps a taxpayer supported facility could.

Within the constraints of what I had on hand, I did try to accommodate special wants and needs.

However, my Chicken Cacciatore could not be made vegetarian, let alone vegan, because it took three hours to prepare it in the sauce, and I did not have the raw ingredients on hand. Give me six hours notice, 24 is better, and it was a different situation.

Same goes for the Osso Buco, Apple Stuffed Pork Loin, Roasted Butternut Squash, Butter braised Brussels Sprouts and all my desserts.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

It absolutely amazes me. Why does every single situational difficulty happen _*"mid rush"*_? Crack me up! Doesn't anything ever happen off-peak?!?

OK. I could be wrong here, but I think a restaurant doing _*"180 covers an hour"*_ is big enough and well stocked enough and has a good enough cook/chef somebody/anybody to throw together a special on the fly.

Who exactly travels *"to places where people barely survive"* expecting to eat anything? Has the Discovery/PBS channel just find some new 3rd-world country with a new line of restaurant franchises?

As for _*"Greens restaurant in San Francisco"*_, LOL, they're okey-doakey with vegans. They can feed them nicely as walk-ins and even better phoning ahead. Really, call them. I did. Ask for "Laurie", she is really nice and understands things very well.

Making _*"gluten-free"*_ pizza is a walk in the park. You've gotta be some real hack-job pizza place if you can't pull that off. Turn in your _PIE_ card.

Feeding vegans is no big deal. You've just gotta want to do it. Nay-sayers need not apply.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

IceMan said:


> As for _*"Greens restaurant in San Francisco"*_, LOL, they're okey-doakey with vegans.


I figured they were okey-doakey with vegans, but that wasn't the point that I was trying to make. I also am okey-doakey with vegans. I relish the challenge and opportunity they provide, to think outside my omnivore box.


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## pirate-chef (Jan 25, 2012)

Ice man it was not the point of traveling to these places expecting to eat but that in our culture we are making laundry lists of what we will not eat and being overly picky just because we have the option to and being obnoxious about it.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

a kajillon years ago I directed farmer-chef dinners, it was interesting to see how many top tier independent restaurants (chefs) got their boxers in a bunch figuring out what to feed vegetarians.  One of the regular customers for the series used to say that she got REALLY tired of pasta with red sauce or a portabella topped with tons of cheese.   

I'm into meat just as much as anyone else, but sometimes it feels better to eat lighter...which to me means fresh veg, light or no sauce, whole grains.....


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## alergkvegtarian (Feb 8, 2012)

PeteMcCracken: Yes, I agree IF they have it on hand. I do not expect any anti-vegan restaurant to carry Tofu. I do not expect Steak Houses to feed me anything. I would love it if I could always eat at home. Much saner! I'd also love it if I lived in England. It is easier to get Fish that was not breaded. Oh yea, I also wish that whenever special occasions arise where I am required to eat out, I could choose the time so that I'm not at a restaurant during their busy hours.

GF Pizza can not be made on the fly in many pizza places. Why? Often they only carry Wheat flour. Minor difficulty here. Pizza Ranch actually has French Meadow Bakery make their GF pizza doughs. Its is one of the few vinegar-free Gluten-Free pizza doughs I've found.

Gluten free flours: Buckwheat, Soy flour, Rice flour, Amaranth flour (cereal free), just to name a very few.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Non-vegan restaurant I can accept, anti-vegan restaurant I take umbrage at the characterization!


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