# Zabaione problem



## somethingtasty (Apr 24, 2011)

Hi everyone.. First of all great thanks to the creator of this website because it is great for people who are interested in cooking as amateurs or professionals to communicate and share experiences..

I have been cooking at home for some time now, mostly desserts but also some pasta and meats.. Anyway, I had a huge wish to make Zabaione since the beginning and finally I got the wine needed - couldn't find Marsala so I used Red Port instead. I used a standard recipe, 2 yolks, 2 Tbsp. sugar, 2 Tbsp. wine for 2 servings.. First of all I mixed the yolks and sugar, it went okay except for the small volume of the mixture because it was a halved recipe.. I somehow managed to beat with the electric mixer until it was almost pale (although I don't think it should've been paler) and added the wine while beating. I put it over a double boiler, it wasn't touching the water, it was barely simmering at low temp, then increased to low-medium, everything was supposed to be okay.. First of all due to the wine the colour went to pink and even chocolatey and the end product looked like I had used cocoa in it. Anyway, I mixed it for a while over the double boiler until I saw it wasn't going well.. When I took it out, the mixture hadn't doubled or tripled in volume like all recipes say but 10 minutes had surely passed.. it was thickened but even sticky, like chewing gum, and it didn't taste like nothing.

I've been wanting to make Zabaione for months now and now that I have the wine I'm really disappointed - please tell me what I did wrong. Thanks!


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

i believe that you didn't have enough egg yolks in your recipe to start with...also, you didn't mention whether or not you cooled it down(stirring constantly) over ice,before folding in the whipped cream... i don't have my tried and true recipe with me as i am on holiday in mexico,(in search of the perfect margarita), but i'm sure you can google it. think my recipe is something like 8 egg yolks to 1/2 c sugar, 1 cup of whipped cream, 1/3 c marsala, but will doublecheck it... i have heard of using muscato, lemonicello, orange liqeuer, champagne and tuaca, but ruby port is a new one...tawny port would be closer to marsala i think... the recipe i use with a half and half mix of a good brand of sweet and dry marsala, is one that is served cold and will last a day or two in the fridge.. i would be most happy to send it along when i return, if someone else here doesn't give their advice. zabaglione is one of my most favorite desserts, but there is ALOT of stirring involved...ALOT! hope this helps a bit

joey


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

Here's a recipe I've used. It's not a 2-serving recipe though. I've never had any problem w/ any left over. 
[h2]Champagne Sabayon[/h2]


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## somethingtasty (Apr 24, 2011)

I think it was tawny - I was reffering to its colour, not the aging process, but I think it is tawny..

Anyway, the regular recipe is double this (4 yolks, spoons sugar etc) but since I was only making two servings I used only two yolks.. and I didn't add any whipping cream, I like it in the original form.. And should I use an electric hand held mixer or a whisk? Because my hand hurt WITH the mixer...


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## chrisbelgium (Oct 2, 2010)

Something Tasty, you're almost there, but you made a few mistakes.

The ratio of ingredients in your zabaglione (or sabayon in french) is excellent. You may like to know that the ingredients are mostly measured with a half egg shell instead of tbspoons! You have to break eggs anyway, so why not use the halves to measure, it contributes to the fun. Per eggyolk, add 1 half eggshell of sugar and 1 half eggshell of booze. It doesn't matter too much which wine, but tawny port isn't very OK. You could have used white port instead. Simply have a not to dry white wine instead or even champagne if you want to go extravagant (I think champagne is a waist of money). And of course, Italian Marsala is very OK.

You need to put all ingredients in immediately, including the booze. Now you made a "ruban" (ribbon in english) with sugar and eggyolk and added the booze afterward. That's a mistake, you need to make the emulsion from the start, which means the booze has to go in at the beginning. So, eggyolk, sugar and booze need to be in the pot first and then whisked into an emulsion. This needs a lot of whisking power! Please, do use your electric handmixer all the way, but move it in all directions in your pot, preferably in "8"-shaped movements and do keep the whisk at the bottom of your pot.

I didn't mention yet you need to put it on a heat source. You did well putting the pot on a bain-marie (pot with boiling water). But, there's another mistake; the water needs to boil gently or you're going to whisk forever.

In the first stage the emulsion will turn foamy, but later on it will increase at least double in volume and there will be no more liquid in the pot. That's it, you're done! Pour into long glasses and serve. You can add a scoop of vanilla icecream first and top it with the zabaglione...so delicious!

Also, a bit more culinary adventurous; fill a deep plate per serson with all kinds of seasonal fruit, cut in bitesize pieces. Cover with a layer of zabaglione and put it a minute or so -as close as possible- directly under the grill in your oven to get a slight color. Yummmm!


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## somethingtasty (Apr 24, 2011)

Thanks for the long and useful answer. However, I have a couple of questions.

You say tawny port isn't very OK. Does this mean I shouldn't use it or I can use it if I can't find a replacement? Because this is about the only fortified wine I could fine in my country..

Most recipes say that the water should be barely simmering, which is what I did, bring it to a boil and lower the temperatures. I still haven't "mastered" the double boiler technique and I am cooking on a new stove that I haven't learned very much yet (I started at 9 out of 9, lowered to 3, here I put the pot above the water, after some time went to 4 and after some more to 5). Is this okay or? Also, most recipes say first beat it well then put it on fire, I don't understand from your answer if you mean this or start beating from the beginning over a double boiler?

I am hoping to try again tomorrow although I will see what will I do. Thank you very much


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## somethingtasty (Apr 24, 2011)

Also, when I added the port the colour went from pale yellow to pink and even brown when cooking, how can I maintain the nice yellow colour of zabaione?


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## chrisbelgium (Oct 2, 2010)

Red port will give the prepatation a color as you already experienced. Don't find any other booze? Let's use the port anyway.

When you put all ingredients in the pot, just whisk for a second to mix (sugar can "burn" eggyolks), then proceed over your bain-marie. Do keep the water boiling but make sure it doesn't touch the pot. It will work, don't worry.


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## somethingtasty (Apr 24, 2011)

You mean boiling, as in boil at high temperature as much as possible?

Also, all red wines give that colour? Because I've seen recipes use a red wine and get the regular colour.. I have white wine but regular, not fortified..


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## chrisbelgium (Oct 2, 2010)

Gently boiling bain-marie is more than enough.

All red wines will color the sabayon. If you have a white wine, use it if you want to keep the yellow-pale color. It doesn't need to be fortified wine at all, there's enough sugar in the preparation.


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## somethingtasty (Apr 24, 2011)

Around how high is gently boiling? Medium, medium-low?

It wouldn't change the taste a lot if I use a weaker and drier wine than the Marsala?


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Wow.

lots of info!!!!!

I'm going to respectfully dissagree about the water temp. You can use any type of boiling/simmering water after you are familiar

with the cooking process. You can pull your bowl to cool and reheat etc. I've even made it over open flame.

For now you should be using the lowest temperature of steam possible. A weak simmer or even bringing your water to a boil, turning off,

and whisking. 

You're only looking for 150-160 degrees to achieve the volume. I would even suggest using your thermometer while learning. Even your

clean finger. Body temp is almost 100, You only want to go half way to a simmer. Like hot water. Don't want to cook the eggs.

There are numerous ways to prepare this. I'm going to suggest CBelgiums way because your volume is so small. all ingredients in at start.

Port is good, it will pinken though.

Sorry!!!way too long!!!  The most important thing to remember is, it's not too technical, have fun, and once you get it, it is a quick, flavorful,

go to. Use antthing that might compliment your ingredients. I've seen it made with water, many wines, I like it with champagne over figs with

a blend of coarse sugars and salts and bruleed.

have fun

pan


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## somethingtasty (Apr 24, 2011)

Thanks for the answer. Do you think I could use a regular, not sweet not fortified white wine?


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

Hello Something Tasty,

Just a thought,

You can always use 1/4 cup of Moscato d'asti, or even a *Riesling (fruity from Germany or California, does not have to be expensive)* if you don't have Marsala.

Zabaione is a classic custard and the reason it is whipped so much and why you need to whisk it is because it needs to incorporate alot of air (volume) and always over a bain marie so that you don't burn it.

Pan and Chris's technique are right and I agree with them.

And yes, because its a custard, seasonal fruit is the way to serve it up.


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## somethingtasty (Apr 24, 2011)

I have a white Traminer, it's one of the best in my country, can I use that?


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## dobzre (Mar 3, 2011)




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## chrisbelgium (Oct 2, 2010)

SomethingTasty said:


> I have a white Traminer, it's one of the best in my country, can I use that?


Absolutely, do use your Traminer!

I always make my sabayon directly on a small fire and take the pot on and off, same for béarnaise, Hollandaise and such. I wouldn't suggest you to do this right now.

But when making it over a bain-marie you need enough temperature. The temperature in the cooking water is not the same as in the preparation. One other criterium; when you see some evaporation coming from the sabayon, it's high time to take it off the fire. Also, before I forget; never leave the sabayon in the pot when just done! The heat in the pot may cause the sabayon to turn ihnto scrambled eggs.. You need to whisk it some more or simply serve it asap.


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## somethingtasty (Apr 24, 2011)

Okay so here's the "plan"..

I will put the pot of water and bring it to a boil. When it starts boiling, reduce the water to a gentle simmer (medium-low heat). In the double boiler I will put 2 yolks, 2 Tbsp. sugar and 2 Tbsp. white Traminer, mix them a little and put over the pot of simmering water. Beat with electric mixer until it doubles in volume, before boil or evaporation.

Anything to correct?


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

SomethingTasty,

Just saw your post, yes to your question.  Last night when I logged off you had not posted your question. We are all at different time zones. Please keep us posted on how your second batch comes out.

Dobzre,

What a great pic and a fine finishing touch !


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

something tasty,

know i'm a bit late with this since you have plan B in place, but thought i'd send it along anyway...if you are looking to achieve the flavor of, dare i say, a 'traditional' zabaglione, which is made with marsala or muscato, then no, your zabaglione will not taste the same with another type of alcohol. you will have the same fluffiness and lightness, but the flavor comes from whatever flavoring you put in. since you are not concerned about a 'truer' zabaglione flavor as much as color, then use whatever you like,have or can get. what country do you live in that knows not of madeira, sherry, vermouth? since you cannot find marsala what about using an extract or a flavored coffee syrup? i have not tried this, but think it should work fine if you're really jonesing. some extracts and syrups will change the custards color, but if you fold in whipped cream, it will change it back to a lighter color. how are  you serving this? warm? cold? with fresh fruit? biscotti? with whipped cream folded in, which to me makes it even lighter..what type of bowl are you using to cook the custard? s/s, not glass, right? i think that you really need to use a whisk, not a mixer. with such a small amount i don't think a mixer can really get to the eggs or the bottom of the bowl fully. whisking as much air as you can into the yolks is what makes it so light and fluffy. whisk, whisk, whisk until your arm is about to fall off, then whisk some more....your'e almost there, and it will triple, i promise. personally there is so much whisking and whipping involved that i would just make a full recipe and not just half....its just as much work,and trust me, it will not last long...you will find ways to eat it..just a spoon is good!

ChrisB...i'm not looking to open a can of worms here and with all due respect because you generally have good advice,and while your sugar/booze in the eggshell may sound cute, i see more frustration than fun involved...broken eggshell in the custard mix, broken eggshell and messy fingers just trying to get the sugar in and out of the shell...think since you already got the spoon to put the sugar in the eggshell, you might as well just measure it once and throw it in the mix.......just me

something tasty, sucess to you with plan B...should be great using the traminer

joey


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## somethingtasty (Apr 24, 2011)

Thank you very much, I will try it soon


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## somethingtasty (Apr 24, 2011)

Also, around how much of whisking on the bain marie?


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

constant whisking, one direction, til it froths up, turns pale and coats the back of a spoon..this will take about 10 minutes total, maybe a few more if making a larger batch.....just don't let the custard mix get too hot as it will curdle/scramble the eggs...if it starts to get too hot, just remove it from the heat and, yeah, you guessed it, keep whisking, then put it back over the water to finish cooking the eggs, again whisking constantly. this dish is really easy, but requires absolute attention... you cannot do anything else while making this...no texting, no talking on the phone, no channel surfing(kidding), just total focus on the whisking. not to add any more confusion, when deciding whether the custard is done enough, you should be able to see the custard streaks on the side of the bowl stay in place...the edges won't run down when you pull your finger through it...keep us posted!

joey


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## somethingtasty (Apr 24, 2011)

I just finished it.. Thanks!!

I didn't know how long to mix it (was afraid of overcooking it) so I might have stopped early, but still it has that nice, warm, frothed structure.. it coated and sort of sticked to my whisk so I took it off, didn't time myself.. I used the regular recipe (4 yolks, sugar, wine) and it turned out great, except that it's too heavy to eat, I put it in two small glasses and could barely finish half of it - will make a nice dessert with fresh fruit tomorrow  I think its size increased a lot, maybe not triple but in my opinion enough.. next time I will experiment with other wines and try and whisk it more..

I haven't actually had Zabaione until now but I think I have it in place - creamy, frothy sweet substance with nice aroma and addition from the wine 

Thanks everyone for the thorough advices, I implemented all of them and I'm satisfied.


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## somethingtasty (Apr 24, 2011)

Here's a picture, I didn't have time to look for my digital camera and take a good shot because I was eager to try it.. The 4 yolk mixture made two glasses like this, maybe I should've mixed more, will take care of that next time


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Looks good. Congratulations!

It only gets better.

Joey,

can of worms.  ChrisBelgium is listed as a home cook. I'm not real sure about that. I make it a point to always read his post. He is very

                           researched and usually keeps me from having to google something. I was classically trained 30yrs ago in Europe.

                          He is in a totally different culinary enviornment, it's rich with history. Here in the States we don't have history because

                          we're so young. We tend to get wrapped up in our own cusine we forget about the origins of food. ANYWAY, blah,blah

                          Chris is spot on about using eggs as measuring devices. It was their method of consistancy. I got chills when I read that,

                          I could feel Gastons eyes burning holes in the back of my head while whisking over an open flame.

pan


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

Something Tasty,

lovely picture, thank you..next time you make zabaglione, you will find it will be much easier as you will know what to look for. please do try it with fresh berries, as the combination is quite magical!

Panini...guess it's a good thing i like worms! absolutely no dispute from me about ChrisB's wealth of knowledge, information and great advice....none whatsoever!...my point with the eggshell measuring, which apparently wasn't clear, was that from my view, since it was Something Tasty's 'first time around the block' making zabaglione, it would be more frustrating than helpful...at that point...that's all...

joey


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## chrisbelgium (Oct 2, 2010)

Now that went well ST! Looks delicious.

Joey & Pan, I am a passionate homecook with 30+ years cooking experience, practical and theorethical knowledge. I live at 15 km of the French border, so there's obvious a great deal of french influence. We have also been "visited" and cross-contaminated by Julius Ceasar and his Romans, the Spanish, Napoleon and his French gang, Austrians and Germans and many other nations with plans to conquer Europe. We have indeed a very rich food culture.

I've started my very first cooking class ever in september last year, at the age of 60. One is never too old to learn.


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

thanks chris for that tidbit...just wondering why you look at 60 as old! 60 is the new 40 here in the states....hope it's true there as well..i know quite a few people who are 60+ and not only going stronger, but are doing more, learning more,and are more adventurous than ever before...put another way, they definetley do not 'act their age'...it truly is never too late, until, of course its too late.....what kind of cooking class are you taking anyway?

joey


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## chrisbelgium (Oct 2, 2010)

durangojo said:


> thanks chris for that tidbit...just wondering why you look at 60 as old! 60 is the new 40 here in the states....hope it's true there as well..i know quite a few people who are 60+ and not only going stronger, but are doing more, learning more,and are more adventurous than ever before...put another way, they definetley do not 'act their age'...it truly is never too late, until, of course its too late.....what kind of cooking class are you taking anyway?
> 
> joey


Yep, we act like 40 over here too Joey, even like 20 or less when noone looks. I was planning on studying Italian, but I changed for the cooking class since I just ended my 8 year long spanish lessons. It was time for a little fun. The cooking class is sponsored by the government and will deliver an official certificate after only 2 years. We are assigned part of a complete quite high standard menu. A pro assists the class while we make our part of the menu which is written out; sometimes we're on our own, mostly we work in couples.

Just to get back on topic, here's a sabayon made in the second session;

*Exotic fruitgratin with a raspberry beer sabayon*

Ingredients (8 persons); 1 mango, 1 papaya, 4 fresh figs, 1 pine apple, 4 eggyolks, 3 tbsp sugar, 8 tbsp raspberry beer

- peel mango and papaya and cut in bitesize bits

- wash figs and cut in quarters

- remove peel and core of the pine-apple and cut in slices lenghtwise

- put the fruits on the plates

- whisk the mixture of eggyolk, sugar and raspberry beer on a very low fire and keep whisking until the sabayon is hot and formed a liaison

- spoon the sabayon over the fruits and put each plate shortly under the salamander (grill)

That is literally the translated written out dessert part of the menu. The making of the sabayon takes... just 1 line in the discription! No bain-marie.

@ST; when there's no more liquid at the bottom of your pot, you're done. Take it from the fire and keep whisking a little more (the pan is still very hot and may cause problems in you forget to whisk). Also, see how you can play around with sugar and liquid ratios to make it more or less sugary (like in this case, less sugary)


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

interesting recipe with the raspberry beer...why is it called a gratin? because you put it under a salamander? personally i think zabaglione is better with a mix of fresh berries not tropical fruits...figs are wonderful, but to me seem an odd pairing with the papaya and pineapple..oh well, "to each his own", said the farmer as he kissed his cow! for hollandaise i don't use a bain marie, but for zabaglione i always do, but i am usually making making larger amounts for catered dinner parties of 75 and up. between making zabaglione and polenta i practically need rotator cup surgery afterwards! have been toying with a savory zabaglione lately to top fish, salmon in particular. looking to make something with a little more oompf than a beurre blanc, not as heavy as a hollandaise, and fluffy...champagne or buerre blanc sabayon? capers? fresh thyme or dill....has this been done under a different name that i don't know? any ideas anyone?

joey


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

Joey,

If I am not mistaken, I think figs were the original fruit to go with sab. but Siduri would have alot more input on this .....I am a tad mainstream on this, any fruit in season, and if I can add a new flavor or twist , I will.

Were you thinking of Beurre Nantais ?

@ Chris, I think its fascinating that you have such talent as languages and Cheffing, "es maravilloso".


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

thanks petals,

 i'm not familiar with buerre nantais, but then again i'm not very french cooking savvy in the first place. you,on the other hand, are all things french, and i pay close attention to your posts for sure. i will definitely try the sauce as it sounds so lovely decadent and a perfect pairing for salmon. i think i am looking for something fluffier...kinda like buerre nantais meets sabayon...maybe lemon, capers, mait oui?...again, thanks mucho...

oh,about the figs with the sab...it's not about the figs, which i adore, just not sure about them with papaya (which i have been eating every day the size of footballs)!

when i boot up everything is in spanish...how do you suppose 'they' know that i am in mexico?

joey


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## slowjuicerdave (Apr 6, 2011)

Sabayon is easier than you're making it seem. It was my first egg sauce when I was 13.  Forget egg shells. That sounds like a pain. I understand that it could be considered traditional, but people were using spoons back then too.

Anyway. Your ratios are fine. If I'm making a bigger batch, I'll use 8 oz wine/ liquor, 10 yolks, and 8 oz sugar. But equal ratios are fine. Remember, a yolk is almost one oz.

Port makes an awesome Sabayon, as does any liquor. I use Grand Marnier or even most types of whiskey. Traditionally, they would use medeira or marsala....It's 2011, Use what you want.

Put your mixing bowl over the double boiler.Add liquor first. let it reduce just a bit. Add in your sugar and mix. Add in your eggs...not whipped like crazy....now whip like crazy until ribbons form. This is when you can see defined lines in what your sauce. Then cool and whip. This is technically a sabayon.

If you want: After its cooled a bit, fold it into some half whipped cream. For your 2 yolks,2oz sugar, 2 oz liquor I would use 4 oz cream.

Honestly, You're making a small batch and some times egg sauces are harder to make in a small batch. I suggest you double your batch. It's your first time, don't worry about wasting that much. After you get this down, then try out a smaller batch.


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

durangojo said:


> thanks petals,
> 
> i'm not familiar with buerre nantais, but then again i'm not very french cooking savvy in the first place. you,on the other hand, are all things french, and i pay close attention to your posts for sure. i will definitely try the sauce as it sounds so lovely decadent and a perfect pairing for salmon. i think i am looking for something fluffier...kinda like buerre nantais meets sabayon...maybe lemon, capers, mait oui?...again, thanks mucho...
> 
> ...


Joey , I have a few sauces for your fish when you get back. Orange and caper is one then watercress cream is another.....enjoy your holiday. Your a True Chef at Heart. Bonne Nuit.

@ Something Tasty, You did a terrific job on your first Zabaione ! The picture looks amazing, well done.


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## somethingtasty (Apr 24, 2011)

Thank you Petals and everyone


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