# isaac's NEW starter



## isaac (Jun 9, 2001)

hey all.

so, i was bored during class today and i felt left out since i dont have my own starter. so i decided to to start my own. i had to make it small since my little refriderator at school will only hold so much

i took half a pound of rye flour and a half a pound of water and mixed it. then i covered it. i will let it sit outside (in my room) for 4 days. i will take it to school with me and feed it about the same time i did today. it will get one feeding a day. 

on the 5th day, i will probobly add 1/4 pound of rye flour, 1/4 pound of white bread flour and then 3/4- 1 pound of water and something like 1/4 pound sead or something like that and let it sit out for 8 hours and then refer it overnight. i will feed it once a day. 


what do u all think? i know it will work...(crumbs crossed). i made osmehting like this while i was at the hotel. 

i need a name... any one have a good name for it? 

thanks


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Isaac,

What's _SEAD_?

A name for your starter! I wonder who started that trend? Could it be *kylew*? Hmm...something to ponder over...

Okay, so we already have Frank & Ernest. Does it need to be a _MALE_?


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Doughminique?


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

That is so good!


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## isaac (Jun 9, 2001)

kimmie,

i meant seed. sorry. 



i like that name... doughminique. he he he


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Rumor has it that rye flour is a: more active than wheat flour & b: less resilient/robust. I am looking forward to your reports. In C&C and Labrea they discuss innoculating a white starter with rye flour over the course of 2-3 days. Because the rye does not keep as well Silverton suggests you make a fresh rye starter everytime you want rye bread. Keep us posted on starting a rye barm from scratch.

Doughminique, eh? How odd that the name is both feminine and French! 

[ August 07, 2001: Message edited by: KyleW ]


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Sorry to disappoint you KyleW, it's also masculine!!!


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## isaac (Jun 9, 2001)

we will say that doughminique is female... a lovely name it is really

kyle: we have kept a rye sour going for ages at the hotel where i did my externship at. 

i will, however, after four days, on day 5, i will feed it with 1/4 pound rye flour, 1/4 pound white flour, 1 pound water and 1/4 pound sead from the culture.

i learned that rye flour is great to make sough dough starters becasue it contains more natural yeasts.

i do have a question. my room is slightly cold, at about 67 degrees. is that to cold for my starter? i plan on taking it to class where it will be warmer..about 70 to 80 degrees. i havent checked the smell or taste of it today. when i woke up this morning, i said hi to doughminique as i was walking out the door and it didnt look like it rose much. i am not sure if rising is much of importantce at this stage. i think that what is important is for the natural yeasts to be attracted and convert the flour to sugar so it can eat and create the lactic and acidic acids needed. sound right?

thanks...


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

For the first several days Frank didn't look like much, other than sludge. Ernest was an ungodly mess for a week. Once the biological voodoo starts to take hold, stand back! As you mentioned, rye is supposed to cause much more activity when added to an active starter. I refreshed Ernest last night so as to feed him rye flour this evening.

As to temp. I think it is less important once the starter is active. I think C&C describes temps around 68 for the first week. LaBrea calls for higher, around 75.

[ August 07, 2001: Message edited by: KyleW ]


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Can't wait to meet with doughminique and *her* offsprings.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Hey people,is anybody using any clear flour or are you calling this rye?


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## thebighat (Feb 21, 2001)

Clear flour isn't rye, it's what comes off the first break rollers in a steel mill. It's usually pretty strong, but not really as "clean" as medium patent bread flour, which is why it's used in rye bread, where the color won't be noticed.


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## thebighat (Feb 21, 2001)

Isaac--the book is in the mail. Should be there in 2-3 days.


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## isaac (Jun 9, 2001)

day two:

well, i thought that maybe since my room is about 68 degrees, it might have slowed down the activity. i took it to class with me today and let it sit out for about 4 hours. after dinner, i went back to the enmtie room to feed it. i noticed some bubbles and a little smell to it. Doughminique was so pretty. i fed her with fresh water and flour. 

anyone know how to put pics on here so i can show you all? all i have is a digital camara. help anyone?

the big hat: YOU ARE AWESOME!! thanks a million.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

The best non-sourdough rye I have ever made uses a combination of first clear and medium rye flours. I read that the extra gluten in the clear flour helps compensate for the lack of gluten in the rye flour. As long as we're on the subject of first clear flour...
All the rye formulas in LaBrea and C&C call for the use of bread flour, in addition to the rye flour. What happens if I use first clear instead?

Isaac-Kimme managed to post a picture in another thread. My copy and paste trick doesn't work anymore. My pics are posted on my web site which comes with a picture gallery. The whole package is free. If you're interested go to

ZDNet SiteBuilder They make it painless


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## fontzmark (Aug 13, 2000)

Kyle
you have a great website going....looks really nice and informative, I also enjoy the "play by play". Ms. Piggy is going strong, on Tuesdays, after the weekend nap she is very hungry, she starts out at about the 1/4 mark of a 5 gallon bucket and in a couple of hours is approaching the top. Isn't is great to make real bread???

BTW....do you know how to make dill bread???


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## isaac (Jun 9, 2001)

the morning of the third day:

as i was slowely waking up at 6am this morning, i looked over on my desk where doughminique was sleeping and i was amazed. she GREW. my baby is growing up so fast . 

i opened the lid and wow...IT REALLY WOKE ME UP. the smell was wonderful. it was near the top of my container and i think any warmer my room was, we would have had a little problem. he he ... so i stuck it in my referiderator and it will stay there until i go to class today. 

i think i might start seeding it today if it tastes sour. if not, i think i am going to have to move it to a diffrent container or we will surely have a problem tomarrow.... well maybe not... maybe i will put her in the refer over night. what do u all think?


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Isaac - You have inspired me with your rye roguery. I am "cheating" though. I put a bit of the LaBrea starter, rather than starting from scratch, on a 3 day, 3 times/day rye feeding schedule. This stuff is potent isn't it! An hour after the third feeding it had nearly doubled in volume. I have it sitting on a sheet pan just in case, as I won't see it again for 12 hours. I think that the rye starter may have "puppy" charachteristics. It runs around like mad, until it completely exhausts itself, and then collapses. Time will tell.

fontzmark - Thanks, between the site and my bread OCD I greatly limit the opportunities to get myself in trouble


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## risa (May 11, 2001)

Kyle and Isaac: You two are too funny. I'm now reconsidering my decision to be part of the breadmaking club, or at least, the part of the club that's experimenting with starters. I have my hands full with a real puppy and I don't think I want more pets like Frank and Ernest. But then again, yummy bread could be worth it and the puppy loves bread.


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## thebighat (Feb 21, 2001)

You can use the bread flour for the first clear, which doubt you'll find retail anyway. It's used because it's a little cheaper. Flours for bakers have cool names, Iron Duke is the first clear I used to use, Bouncer was the high gluten.


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## isaac (Jun 9, 2001)

oh guys, i am really upset.....disapointed at myself for the most part. 

i really thought my starter was doing good, i really did. it was getting good volume and the smell sucked... which i thought was a good thing. 

so, i took it to class today and my fav teacher came into class...chef gumple. he is awesome. he is all about bread. he is a master chef and a dean at the culinary school. i was so happy with my starter that i showed it to him. he opened the lid, smelled it and jolted back in grossness. he said that there was somethign seriously wrong with my starter. i sorta agrued with them. then he went over to the other bread class and got a little sample of there sour starter and brought it back. it smelled great.. like apple vinegar. then we smelled mine and it wasent good...at least compared to that. 

i asked him what happened. i told him thati fed it once a day and brought it back to my dorm and left it in my room tell the next day. he explained to me that there are bad bacteria too that might try to invade the sour dough starter. it made since... speically since i trasported it back and fourth to class to my dorm. then he noticed a little peice of dryed fruit puree on the lid inside and he said that might matter, meaning that i should have santaized the sour dough container. 

so, today i made a new one.... 1/2 pound rye flour, 1/2 pound water.

then i tried to save doughminique. i tok 1/4 pound rye flour, 1/4 pound bread flour, 1 pound water, and maybe 4-5 oz of doughminique. maybe that will help try to save her .

it was hard to desribe the smell of the old doughminique. it was like bannana smelling.. somewhat rotten banannas. i am not sure if this makes since. 

i left them in the bake shop in hopes they will collect the right bacteria and yeasts needed .

any thoughts?


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Sorry to hear that Isaac. I guess cleanliness is next to goodlyness when it cames to the wild yeast beast. I think I might be afraid, that in trying to save Doughminique, I might just continue to grow the bad bacteria. 

I seem to be having some luck so far. It more than doubles in 2 hours after a feeding. I haave some pics that will post. It nearly reached the top of a 1 1/2 gallon container. I tossed all but 2 cups and started the Day 2 feedings. I have my fingers crossed. This is the ernest version. Tomorrow I am going to start the Frank version. It uses pumpernickel "flour"/rye meal. This stuff looks more like twigs and bark!

TBH - I have first clear. I can get it from King Arthur. Is there a benefit? They don't give you a protien %. They have a 14% high gluten, 12.7 % bread and the first clear. Is one better than another?


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## thebighat (Feb 21, 2001)

You know what- if you have the first clear and don't mind the aggravation and price, then use it. I used to do a lot of woodworking and when I needed to do something that didn't feel safe with a power tool, I asked myself, what did the old guys do, and how did they do it? You know what the old Jewish bakers making rye bread used to use? First clear, so I'd use it just to be part of that chain.


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## isaac (Jun 9, 2001)

kyle,

it kinda erks me but i am doing better. some of the books say to add a pinch of fresh yeast to it. that is supposed to attract wild yeasts but if u add fresh yeast... it is not a sour dough starter.. it is a pre ferment. 

i hope by not transporting it at all and that everythign was very clean, it will start to grow the right kind of bacteria and attract yeast. 

did u do your starters at home? did u add a pinch of fresh yeast? do you refer yours at al or just let them sit out? what ratio are you using for your feeds?


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

isaac - when I was in the initial stages of growing the starters ( 2 weeks for Ernest, 5 days for Frank) they were at room temp. I grew then entirely in the comfy confines of my apartment. I did not use any fresh yeast. I used grapes with Ernest and raisin water with Frank to jump start the process.

TBH - First clear it is. Costs me $2.95 + shipping for 5 lbs. I usually throw a few other things in the box to make it worth while.

The Rye Romp begins!

[ August 08, 2001: Message edited by: KyleW ]


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## isaac (Jun 9, 2001)

kyle,


yes, last night i was thinkning of your starters and how it would really sucked if mine exploded. i prayed. when i got up this morning, i saw it and it was nearly to the top. it would have made a mess if i left it out any longer. so tonight, it will go on a sheet pan or paper. i think today or tomarrow, i will start seeding it. 

also, u can shoot it in your referiderator overnight. u dont have to leave it out. tonight, if i dont seed it, then i will put it in there. it wont prohibit the yeast from eating, it will just slow them down. 

just a thought


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