# Meat fork vs tongs???



## jrhettclark (May 6, 2014)

I'm having trouble wrapping my head around that one. Anyone have a preference over the other?


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## pollopicu (Jan 24, 2013)

Tongs.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Tongs, but just to complicate the discussion, have you considered a pigtail?


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## jrhettclark (May 6, 2014)

I have always used tongs. I have a pigtail at home, I just don't see having as much dexterity with the fork.


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## alaminute (Aug 22, 2013)

I work in a strict no tong kitchen. I think Gray Kunz was the first to do it? It's because tongs are dirty (you ever look at all the food that builds up inside during a busy service), and they crush food. I don't care how awesome you are, tongs crush all fish. Period. 

I swore by tongs for a long, I had a ton of tricks- pasta, soup, sticky pans. And learning to use the fork can be tough, but now I can do anything tongs can with a fork faster, cleaner more efficiently. F.Dick is the best brand I've found so far. They also make the best fish spat bar none, although I prefer a full palette knife instead but that's a discussion for another thread.


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## pollopicu (Jan 24, 2013)

alaminute said:


> I work in a strict no tong kitchen. I think Gray Kunz was the first to do it? It's because tongs are dirty (you ever look at all the food that builds up inside during a busy service), and they crush food. I don't care how awesome you are, tongs crush all fish. Period.
> 
> I swore by tongs for a long, I had a ton of tricks- pasta, soup, sticky pans. And learning to use the fork can be tough, but now I can do anything tongs can with a fork faster, cleaner more efficiently. F.Dick is the best brand I've found so far. They also make the best fish spat bar none, although I prefer a full palette knife instead but that's a discussion for another thread.


Who said anything about using tongs for fish?

They're dirty if you use dirty tongs, which is why kitchens are usually equipped with plenty of them, and like everything else, they get washed and sanitized. I guess you could say the same thing about forks, or any other kitchen utensil if you use it for everything throughout service without properly replacing, washing, and sanitizing it.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

No one perfect tool.

Forks are good for heavy items like roasts (bound with string, of course) picking up whl chickens by the cavity, and the like. Great for some things like spinach and pasta.  Downright sh*tty for steaks and snausages.

Tongs are great for a lot of items.  Yes they do get dirty.  That doesn't mean you should let them get dirty.  They are cheap and you should have a bunch of them for service. Still the best thing for picking up a pie-pan of Fr. onion soup from under the salamander.

Palette knives are best for fish and other delicate items....


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Ya beat me to it, Polly... I was one minute behind you posting....


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## alaminute (Aug 22, 2013)

Heard chef


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## beastmasterflex (Aug 14, 2013)

Chopsticks baby.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

I personally don't use tongs often. I don't necessarily use meat forks all the time either, but I use meat forks more than I use tongs. 

I did use tongs when I worked the grill at a high end restaurant...not really a better tool for flipping and cross-hatching meat on a really hot grill than tongs. Most kitchens I've been in, tongs have been forbidden for most things. I say, tongs have their place, but in most cases I wouldn't use them. 

A lot of it has to do with finesse and mentality. Tongs are rough on your food. Everyone has had tongs tear up a protein, or mash some veg, or something similar. They scream "bang it out" mentality and a lot of chefs forbid them because they lack finesse and consistently get abused (I've seen cooks grab china to plate with dirty tongs) and mis-used.

Like I said, they have a place. Working a crazy hot grill? You need tongs. My meat fork wouldn't cut it there. If I'm grabbing roasted veal bones and moving them to the stock pot, I'll use tongs. 

No one has said it yet, but the whole "juices escape from the holes" BS is bunk. Yes, a small amount of juice will come out, but it hasn't been proven to effect the juiciness of a steak or protein in any real way.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Someday said:


> No one has said it yet, but the whole "juices escape from the holes" BS is bunk. Yes, a small amount of juice will come out, but it hasn't been proven to effect the juiciness of a steak or protein in any real way.


Mmmm..no....not really. Maybe with steaks and chops, sure, yeah.

But I dare you you to move around sausages on a grill or from a pot of hot water with a fork with sharp tines. You know, stuff like blood and liver sausages, Bratwurst, Schueblig, Teewurst, Knackwurst, etc, etc. Do it once, and if the Chef hasn't whacked you over the head with an open palm, the (deleted) thing will burst open and squirt you good....

As the Germans sing when they get very drunk:

"Alles hat eine Ende, nuer die Wurst hat zwei....."

(everything has an end, but the sausage has two...)


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

foodpump said:


> Mmmm..no....not really. Maybe with steaks and chops, sure, yeah.
> 
> But I dare you you to move around sausages on a grill or from a pot of hot water with a fork with sharp tines. You know, stuff like blood and liver sausages, Bratwurst, Schueblig, Teewurst, Knackwurst, etc, etc. Do it once, and if the Chef hasn't whacked you over the head with an open palm, the (deleted) thing will burst open and squirt you good....
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'll give you that one. My statement certainly wasn't meant as a complete blanket, since with cooking there are exceptions to just about every rule. But I wouldn't use a fork while grilling something anyways.

But that also has to do with the pressure inside the casing and things like that...a piece of protein like a steak or a chop has no such casing, obviously.


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## alaminute (Aug 22, 2013)

Yeeaaah..... No. Foodpump, pollopicu, have you ever actually practiced using a small fork over tongs for a service? You say they're just as dirty? We all keep a bane Marie full of spoons a fork and a spat on our stations and the one utensil that never gets dirty is the fork. Also I rinse my bane out way more often than I've ever seen people replace tongs on the line. 
You guys have dishwashers come and switch out tongs every twenty minutes? Maybe a box of clean tongs in the corner? I doubt it. Also I've worked at a lot of tong loving places and in every one of them I've seen that same food buildup. Every one.
'Who said anything about fish?' Generally people who use tongs, use them for EVERYTHING. 
Sausages? We do a super delicate boudin blanc and once your meat is cooked the fork still does less damage than tongs. Sausages are not balloons, they won't just explode. 
You're right there isn't one single perfect tool, and I myself use tongs on occasion, like for moving my logs around on the grill. 
All this prejudice aside essentially you should probably work with whatever your kitchen is used to. If everyone on your line has tongs and the boss says an ideal cook should always have tongs in one hand and a folded towel in the other than do that. Act accordingly


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## alaminute (Aug 22, 2013)

And any chef who tries to 'whack me over the head' is getting stabbed. Probably with a meat fork.


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## pollopicu (Jan 24, 2013)

alaminute said:


> Yeeaaah..... No. Foodpump, pollopicu, have you ever actually practiced using a small fork over tongs for a service? You say they're just as dirty? We all keep a bane Marie full of spoons a fork and a spat on our stations and the one utensil that never gets dirty is the fork. Also I rinse my bane out way more often than I've ever seen people replace tongs on the line.
> You guys have dishwashers come and switch out tongs every twenty minutes? Maybe a box of clean tongs in the corner? I doubt it. Also I've worked at a lot of tong loving places and in every one of them I've seen that same food buildup. Every one.
> 'Who said anything about fish?' Generally people who use tongs, use them for EVERYTHING.
> Sausages? We do a super delicate boudin blanc and once your meat is cooked the fork still does less damage than tongs. Sausages are not balloons, they won't just explode.
> ...


Please do not presume to guess what the sanitation practices of my kitchen are. I've seen many unfortunate situations take place in quite a few kitchens, that's true, but I can assure you those details don't get by me.

It's not to say that forks aren't a great tool, I have a few of them at work, as well as at home. and to humor you..I'll probably explore using them a bit more to see what the hysteria is all about, but tongs, if used properly, (meaning, with common sense) are a great tool as well, and I don't see them disappearing anytime soon.

Not sure what a tong ever did to you, but you seem traumatized by it. I'm happy you're having fun with your fork, tho. At the end of the day that's what it's all about, having fun, right?


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

I'm not pointing fingers here.  There is no need to be negative.  I'm sure there are many ways to do things properly and I feel if highlighted those methods we'd be much better off than saying one way is better than the other.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Someday said:


> No one has said it yet, but the whole "juices escape from the holes" BS is bunk. Yes, a small amount of juice will come out, but it hasn't been proven to effect the juiciness of a steak or protein in any real way.


Then why do we rest proteins before slicing them?


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Dirty tongs are merely a sign of sanitation habits that need improving, just like dirty cutting boards, dirty pans, etc.


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## alaminute (Aug 22, 2013)

I sincerely apologize for my belligerent tone here- uncalled for in retrospect. It's obviously a subject I'm passionate about. You're all right 'at the end of the day it's all about having fun' and there's a million different ways to do everything, better to explore various techniques. I've never used chopsticks but I here that those are truly some of the best and most versatile tools- if you know how to drive the damn things.


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## pollopicu (Jan 24, 2013)

I use chop sticks to construct certain kinds of appetizers and hors d'oeuvres. I find fillings are much easier to handle with chopsticks than with spoons or bare fingers.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

What about tweezers?   Tweezers are great for plating.


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## pollopicu (Jan 24, 2013)

Kuan, I meant I use them to place the shrimp stuffing onto the wonton for potstickers before sealing. It works like charm.


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## beenjammin (Feb 9, 2014)

Cooking chopsticks! They take some practice, but very versatile and delicate.


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## chef torrie (Mar 1, 2011)

cheflayne said:


> Dirty tongs are merely a sign of sanitation habits that need improving, just like dirty cutting boards, dirty pans, etc.


Was thinking the same thing.


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

In my years I have seen cooks use their tongs for everything from stirring food in a pot to pulling pans out of the hot oven NEVER once cleaning that tong at all.

It stays in their back pants pocket along with their dirty rag hanging out like they were a mechanic at a garage.


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## chef xto (Oct 4, 2013)

Doesn't seem like anyone is going to give much ground here. For what it's worth I keep a sidetowel for handling hot items in my apron string, neatly folded and changed four or five times per serviced, paired with a rack of tongs which are run through the dishpit constantly, clean pair as soon as I soil one.

Decent tongs can handle trays, manoeuvre and transport hot pans, pickup delicate items with absolutely zero pressure, touch temp steaks. Invaluable.

I lik the idea of chopsticks for small items, I'm clumsy with them however. A tweezer action set would be very helpful.


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## chefboy2160 (Oct 13, 2001)

On a busy grill/broiler it is Tongs & Spatula with a fork being reserved for the Carving Station at the Buffet! Tongs are very select with heavy duty being proffered and often used as a spatula! Thats my story and I am stickin to it! Just gotta learn how to cook and when the release of the meat happens so you dont shred it! And should I say Duh! Doug..


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## pollopicu (Jan 24, 2013)

chef xto said:


> Doesn't seem like anyone is going to give much ground here. For what it's worth I keep a sidetowel for handling hot items in my apron string, neatly folded and changed four or five times per serviced, paired with a rack of tongs which are run through the dishpit constantly, clean pair as soon as I soil one.
> 
> Decent tongs can handle trays, manoeuvre and transport hot pans, pickup delicate items with absolutely zero pressure, touch temp steaks. Invaluable.
> 
> I lik the idea of chopsticks for small items, I'm clumsy with them however. A tweezer action set would be very helpful.


I go through utility towels like they're going out of style. I keep 2 folded on the counter to use as mitts. I have one folded on my side, one in sanibucket, and a couple to dry utensil and bowls etc.

I've met the men with the tongs in their back pocket.../img/vbsmilies/smilies/confused.gif


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

chef xto said:


> Decent tongs can handle trays, manoeuvre and transport hot pans, pickup delicate items with absolutely zero pressure, touch temp steaks. Invaluable.


I agree. If you need to work a double stack broiler or a wood oven you really need long tongs.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Tongues for majority of grill items provided you rinse them or dip them between foods.  Years ago in wholesale butcher houses we took our knives between various cuts or at lunch or break time and put them all on the bench in a strerilizing solution.   A meat fork for large roast, tongues will bend under weight.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

I don't think the health inspector would like you using tongues, no matter how many times you dipped them in sanitation fluid.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

alaminute said:


> ....View media item 99088I swore by tongs for a long, I had a ton of tricks- pasta, soup, sticky pans. And learning to use the fork can be tough, but now I can do anything tongs can with a fork faster, cleaner more efficiently. F.Dick is the best brand I've found so far. They also make the best fish spat bar none, although I prefer a full palette knife instead but that's a discussion for another thread.


Well, a'la minute,

As you can see by the pic above, My F->Dick is bigger than your F->Dick, so I guess that settles the whole debate, eh?


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## chef torrie (Mar 1, 2011)

I use both. Chopsticks and tweezers for delicate playing also. 

I'd definitely say tongs are my most used item however. Multiple pairs, never in my back pocket, definitely never with a dirty rag. In a good push, I always swap out with a clean pair often. When I get a change they all get sent to the pit and get scrubbed down good. 

Have I seen cooks use dirty tongs in my years? Of course. I've also seen dirty forks used, spoons, spats, and pans.

In my honest


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## chef torrie (Mar 1, 2011)

^^^^ opinion the use of dirty tongs, towels, pans; goes to show the personal habits of a not clean cook. And we all know some of these ^^


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## alaminute (Aug 22, 2013)

So in the end a true master uses the right tool for the right job. Just don't let anyone at my work here I ever advocated tongs. I've heard at the French laundry they only use palette knives...


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

I think totally forswearing anything in the kitchen is silly. Almost every tool has its use. What I find I don't like is the inappropriate use of tongs, using them for something they shouldn't be used for. 

I've seen the guys at Saison in SF in action, I know they use tongs to handle the live fire of the restaurant. Anyone working a grill or a broiler pretty much has to use tongs. 

But, I feel the same way about using tongs for, say, flipping fish, stirring soup, carrying hot pans around the kitchen (among other things) as I do about, say, opening a can with a chef's knife. Will it work? Probably, but its hardly the correct tool. 

"Correct" is subjective of course.

I've worked at a couple places where we were forbidden to use tongs. It was more about having finesse and care for your food, more of a mentality, then anything else. 

Other places I've worked, cooks used tongs for everything. Even plating salad greens, which I find abhorrent. But hey, to each his own. 

I usually use a combination of tweezers (the long kind), spatula and palate knives, and meat fork. 

And yes, they don't use tongs at TFL. But they also don't have a broiler or a grill.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Someday said:


> I don't think the health inspector would like you using tongues, no matter how many times you dipped them in sanitation fluid.


Hahah!


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## kookieman13 (Apr 30, 2014)

I think it's personal preference. Fork for steak do puncture the meat and allow jus run out. Heavy joints can't pick up with tongs. For fish there's fish slice. They should be washed periodically and not using the same fork or tong for different food. Especially between cooked and meat which are still raw inside. That's how you get cross contamination. Which ever utensil you use you got to feel comfortable with and they have to be
well made.


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## kookieman13 (Apr 30, 2014)

I have seen cooks keep stabbing steaks to get the blood out in order to force the steak to make it well done. Bad practice. Grill tong for small items like steak, chops and chicken etc. Meat fork for large joints and carving that's why they're call carving fork.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

Kookieman13 said:


> I think it's personal preference. Fork for steak do puncture the meat and allow jus run out. Heavy joints can't pick up with tongs. For fish there's fish slice. They should be washed periodically and not using the same fork or tong for different food. Especially between cooked and meat which are still raw inside. That's how you get cross contamination. Which ever utensil you use you got to feel comfortable with and they have to be
> well made.


The notion of the meat as a water balloon does not, if you'll pardon the pun, hold water. It has been debunked by guys like McGee. Yes, sticking something into the meat will cause a small amount of liquid to come out, but it is not enough to effect the overall juiciness of the protein. Google it and do some research if you don't believe me. Next, you'll tell me that searing meat will "seal in the juices." Time to put these myths to bed, guys.

Obviously, if someone is repeatedly stabbing a steak with something over and over to make it "well done," then yes, that could have an effect. That is not what we are talking about here.


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## alaminute (Aug 22, 2013)

I'm with someday 100% on this one. We all know various ways to push a temp I'm sure but I have never heard of/seen anybody repeatedly stabbing a steak. Sounds like mental illness. Also there ARE different forks: sauté fork, chefs fork, and steak forks are all unique. And again I believe most people here are imagining a huge 10.5 inch steak fork- I'm talking about a simple 5 or 6 inch sauté fork. Also to reiterate what someday said, it's about finesse and mentality, absolutely.


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## beastmasterflex (Aug 14, 2013)

Tweezers are cheaters chopsticks... Most things you're stabbing f$&koff huge holes in I could turn with a pair of chopsticks. Learn to use them you're chefs now put on your big boy pants (or big girl pants) Anyone that can compare a meat fork to tongs is blatantly an idiot, they're two completely different tools I might as well say hey what's better an acetylene torch or a band saw. Gawd people are weak sauce, Id threaten to stab a prep cook if he produced something of this quality.


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## eloki (Apr 3, 2006)

The only time I ever use a meat fork is to carve a roast, or to turn spaghetti to make it look good on the plate. Tongs, imo, are way more versatile.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

beastmasterflex said:


> Tweezers are cheaters chopsticks... Most things you're stabbing f$&koff huge holes in I could turn with a pair of chopsticks. Learn to use them you're chefs now put on your big boy pants (or big girl pants) Anyone that can compare a meat fork to tongs is blatantly an idiot, they're two completely different tools I might as well say hey what's better an acetylene torch or a band saw. Gawd people are weak sauce, Id threaten to stab a prep cook if he produced something of this quality.


What would you stab him or her with? Your chopsticks /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif


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## michaelga (Jan 30, 2012)

The proper way to wear / use a towel that is tucked into the waistband is very simple.

However many people seem to have forgotten it.

The towel is used only as a 'pot-grabber' or 'hot-mit' it is never used to dry hands... never to clean anything.

It is kept clean and dry so you have a way to instantly grab a hot plate / item skillet etc..

It should be kept at the front of your waist and never used to clean you hands or dry them, that is for paper-towels.

Yes there is a clean and dry joke regarding anatomy in there and yes most good chefs probably use it.

Anything that gets dirty gets dropped on the floor.  No mistaking 'dirty' ever then!


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## kookieman13 (Apr 30, 2014)

Yes there are chopsticks with pointed end for stabbing. I know because I am Chinese.


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## grillbeast (Jul 18, 2012)

I use tongs for a hot grill. Steaks and chops don't get mashed if you are careful. Definitely only use a fish spat for grilled fish though, sometimes with an assist from tongs to gently prop the fillet up while I turn it for a cross hatch. Now I work a saute station focused on fish and my tongs are reserved for grabbing sizzle plates out of the back of the oven or other random tasks. Spoons, tweezers and rarely my fish spat get everything done.


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