# What's our responsibility?



## marmalady (Apr 19, 2001)

There have been some posts lately re alcohol in cooking, sulfites, peanut oil in cooking, etc. - that got me thinking; what is our responsibility to our customers to A) inform them of ingredients that may be allergens or off limits; B) to try and find substitutes for these items?

Some might say it's up to the customer to ask what's in their 'soup', I just don't know. I know that as the mom and spouse of two vegetarians, there's been lots of times when we're at a restaurant, and they'll order something without realizing it may have been cooked with, say, chicken broth; If I don't step up and say something, on the one hand they'll never know - on the other hand, they're eating something they don't want or can't eat.

I'm especially thinking of recovering alcoholics who are trying to adhere to the 'program'; it was only on a recent post that I was aware that not all alcohol was cooked out. 

Is it our responsibility to post items on the menu - or train the wait staff on ingredients - or not use things like peanut oil (I worked for a chef who wouldn't put nuts in ANYTHING because he was afraid of folks' allergies). 

Opinions, please? I'm not sure where the buck stops; ultimately with the customer, or with us as responsible chefs?


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## nick.shu (Jul 18, 2000)

im not using this as a forum to diminish our responsibilities. My personal feeling is that individual requirements should be adhered to, as long as we are informed.

My case being vis a vis:

given that the planet is host to some 14,000,000,000 individuals.
And let us say that without notice there is some 10 food based preferences. That now gives us some 140,000,000,000 variations on foods. So on that basis, the standard restaurant now has to cater to some 140 billion combinations of common foods.

So to put it lightly, we do a have duty to our customers, but by the same token, if we are not informed, where are you going to find a restaurant that stocks 140 billion different combinations of burgers (for instance)

I myself, am highly allergic to certain foods, but i cannot blame the chef if i dont ask, because by admission, it is both economically and socially irresponsible and unfeasible for me to not ask.

Once the information is passed on and guidelines are infringed, then it is a different story.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

This is America....when restaurant owners hear there is a demand<paying > for certain things they must feel there is an economical reward for serving something. 
As a mother of a child with severe allergies, I searched out places we could eat with as little hassle as possible.
***An example is: now there are resaturants advertising that they use local farm products, one restaurant is opening an outdoor oven and grill that will only serve local foods.
It's a moving trend......building momentum....same could be for other ideas....make your desires known or if your in a restaurant market special dishes....one of my cheffie friends is vegan and has vegan dishes marked on his menu< this is a very upscale restaurant with 500 customers a day> and I field calls all the time from vegetarians that wanna place to eat with a decent vegan protein.....read tired of pasta and cheese.


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## suzanne (May 26, 2001)

We cannot save people from their own poor judgment. If a customer has allergies or other reasons for not eating certain things, I believe it is that customer's responsibility to ask if a dish includes any of the offending item. It is the server's responsibility to know the full and correct answer. It is the chef's and/or manager's responsibility to make sure that the servers have all the correct information. It is ludicrous to expect written menu or the server to launch into a full, minutely detailed description of EVERYTHING. If we try to second-guess on a few things, there will probably be something important we miss, and still get in trouble, anyway.

Think about it: do you want to read or listen to a complete recipe for each item on the plate, just because somebody might not be able to eat one thing? Please! 

When I helped train waiters on the menu, I made sure they knew what potential allergens any dish included, and whether or not the kitchen could make a substitution (olive oil instead of peanut, say) without a big hassle. Our GM -- herself a lactose-intolerant ovo-lacto-vegetarian -- felt this was sufficient.


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

I agree that the bottom line is the responcibility of the Guest.

If he/she has certian restictions to there diet the need to let the server know, or better yet if they have a reservation at a restuarant they should make the host aware when booking the rez. One thing we do at work is when a program is being booked by a company, our conference managers ask the meeting planner to poll the particapents of the program to see if they have any dietary requests. This is done as far out as possible to the actual program coming on site. When the program resume is put together, under departmental notes I will see any request. I then send out a cover letter to the guest rooms of these people that states I am aware of there dietary needs and give them my name and number to contact me. This works very well. Ofcourse we get programs that pop up all the time and I don't find out until an order comes in the kitchen. For the most part I am able to fill there needs.
But like I said and others also, We are not mind readers, we can only help our guests if they help us to be aware of there issues before hand
cc


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Duh! How could I forget....a dear friend has diabetes and is on dialysis, he eats out and can not have an exstensive list....so he gets fish with out tomato sauce and a lightly dressed salad, rice or bread and fruit for desert... 

I taught ice cream class for 2-4 graders last summer (and again this summer) and one of the kids had SEVERE allergies to peanuts. Everything was mostly from scratch, but Lindt white choc may contain nut particles.....we read the boxes but ultimately her mom decided that she was responsible enough to check with us on ingrediants (in addition to warning us and leaving a hospital number....tell me that is not scary). I didn't kill her, and it was a good experience to see this child apart of the group.


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## marmalady (Apr 19, 2001)

Thanks, guys - all good thoughts.


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## compassrose (Jun 1, 2001)

Heh. Sigh. I always seem to come cruising into these threads weighing in as "nightmare customer."

Please. Please. Please. Do put a note into the menu or board if something that LOOKS as though it would be reasonably vegetarian is not in fact -- contains chicken broth, butter, whatever. Saves time. Saves aggravation. Saves server running back and forth into the kitchen. Saves testy customer realising that YET AGAIN the only thing she can eat, after all, is the salad, and not the tempting-looking whatever she originally wanted.

This is probably wise for the major allergens, too: nuts, seafood, sulfites and the like. Any, in short, that can reasonably be feared to cause people to expire noisily at one of your tables... always bad, that.

I don't expect a complete ingredient list for every entree... though I posted to another thread that I would REALLY love to see an estimate of nutritional content for each one. If I'm eating out because I have to, and not splurging, I do try to keep track of daily calories in/calories out -- essential, I feel, to making sure that none of my one hundred lost pounds chance to find their way home. And this would be SO easy, with the nutritional software around today: sling in ingredients and amounts, add on number of servings, and poof!


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

I guess we fall under a different catagory. Most of our brides who are ordering cake for 300-1000 guests usually don't take dietary restrictions into account unless someone close has a problem.
We always inform about the use of alcohol,nuts,etc.
One does not stop to think that one of their guests maybe on or in some type of program. 
I can just see old uncle Ed, who has been sober for 8 yrs. woofing down a dozen or two injected chocolate covered strawberries.
As far as the allergies we offer different flavor layers of cake at no charge.
Customers are on their own in the retail shop. We have nutritional and ingredients info, but we do not post it.


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

It is up to a guest to notify a serve of any allergies or restrictions. It is not the responsibility of the the restaurant to babysit it's customers. On the other hand, once an allergey or restricion has been told to the server, it is the server's, chef's, and cooks responsibility to handle those problems. Alleregies are very serious. Many can kill in a matter of minutes. I would hope that a guest who has that serious of an allergy would be aware enough to let people know.

The idea of putting nutrutional information onto a menu seems overkill. Unless you are on some sever diet, where every little calorie and fat gram must be taken into consideration, for medical reasons, a little common sense should dictate how you order. It seems to me that people have gotten lazy and want everyone else to do their thinking for them, and when that doesn't happen, they want to sue because those people were neglectful of their duties. Most restaurants offer a range of dishes from the fat laden to the relatively healthful. A little menu reading usually will tell you which ones are on the lighter side.


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## compassrose (Jun 1, 2001)

Not so. Menu reading is more likely to give me insight into the menu writer's literary ambitions, what with things like "delicately scented with" and "garlic braised."

I can't begin to count the number of times that I've been shanghaied by a surprise sauce on an item that looked perfectly acceptable ("grilled"). And I am now the Nightmare Customer. "How is that prepared? Do they use butter? Do they use oil? Is there any sauce? Is it marinated, and if so, in what? Are there any animal ingredients? And YES, chickens are animals!" If something comes with something I didn't want and am not prepared, for whatever reason, to eat, I send it back. (I once ordered salad, dressing on the side. I got it... and every green in the poor thing had been pre-steeped in what looked like about half a bottle of olive oil, running all over the plate. "We always do that," I was informed. I sent it back, and as I happened to be on my lunch break, I couldn't get anything to replace it in time. I didn't pay, but I also didn't eat. I've never been back there.)

I reiterate: most people dining out these days are doing it for reasons of necessity, not as a treat. Just as in the supermarket, we should be able to get information about what we're eating without having to annoy increasingly irritated waitstaff to do so, thereby wrecking the evening for everyone. (And most waitstaff I encounter have very little idea of what a chef actually puts into things. "It's really good," is not the answer I'm looking for. Nor is it the answer my husband, a much more serious vegetarian than I, is looking for. And it is AMAZING how many food service professionals truly believe that chicken and fish grow on trees!)

People have not gotten lazy; people would LIKE to make informed choices. I don't think I'm alone in this, as a customer.


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## suzanne (May 26, 2001)

CompassRose: your requests sound reasonable to me. It is the restaurant's responsibility to answer your questions accurately. And it would be great if, after you're asked a few, for the server to see what you're getting at and suggest a menu item along the lines of what you're seeking, or that could be modified *easily* by the kitchen to suffice. But until we have all restaurants staffed by fully-trained, professional, intelligent waitstaff,cooks, and managers, I fear the chances of any of that happening are the equivalent of a snowball's in ... well, you know where. Sigh.


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## fodigger (Jul 2, 2001)

While I believe that it is the customers responsibility to ask questions, we take the following precautions: We clearly label anything that has peanuts and each server is given a little notebook that has every ingredient used in every menu item so that they may answer the guest questions right away. Also included is a list of vegaterian friendly items. I had a local dietition come in and explain the differences in the different deciplines so that they could know what is meant when they say I'm a vegan what can I have. It has worked well for us. I do include the peanuts because it seems to effect alot of kids. Just a little cya as I had a friend who was sued over it.


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## marmalady (Apr 19, 2001)

A story about chicken - My husband's mother, god bless her, a tried and true Southern cook, was a bit befuddled when her son came home from college and announced he was a vegetarian. Being a good mom, she did her research, and got some brown rice for him to eat while the family was eating their fried chicken. Hubbie thought the rice was exceptionally good, and asked mom how she cooked it. The answer 'why son, I just added a little chicken broth'!

A story about wait staff and vegetarians - A good friend of ours from Canada was visiting a restaurant and saw a vegetable soup on the menu; he asked the waitress if it was vegetarian, and she said she'd check. Brought the soup to him, and he detected the grease slick that can only come from well cooked beef; asked the waitress about it, and her reply was, 'well, i picked the meat out for you!'

I even picked up a pasta salad at the Wegman's prepared food center for my guys; got home, read the ingredients, and they'd used chicken broth in the salad dressing!! 

I don't know what the solution is - good points have been brought up by all. I think, though, that in today's business, it's basically, 'customer beware', that is until the day, Suzanne, when we have those 'professional, well trained wait staff' who can translate the menu items into ingredients! As for my mother-in-law, well, as I said, god bless her for trying!


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## nick.shu (Jul 18, 2000)

i guess in a way i was lucky to work with some vegan waitstaff.

Not only did this give me insight into vegetable options and variations of the above theme, it also educated me and challenged me. So from this experience, i gained and also had the opportunity to learn about this.

From this i got some great ideas and contributed some of my own. Such ideas like "mushroom shawarma with houmus and lebanese bread", et al. I also found out which actual products were ok. I also taught them to make their own white chocolate (with a great deal of help from this forum).

Above and beyond that, it also enabled me develop the philosophy of "what ever the meat eater has, there is always an acceptable vegan alternative, just look for it" basically meaning: just change the protein (85% of the time).

I will always try to accommodate those with either a philosophy or dietary needs because that is good service and most of the time i can do it, but only if im told. Because on top of allergies, i cannot judge severity or whatever (because im a chef not a MD) and i actually have a lot of food allergies myself.

From my own point of view, vicarious liabilities aside, the actual thought of causing death through my own cooking causes absolute horror. Imagine if it actually happened?. What if i wasnt told - people have to start taking responibility for their own decisions.


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## nick.shu (Jul 18, 2000)

but my rant doesnt finish there.

If someone makes it known that they have special requirements, then it should be dealt with in a professional and ethical manner.

For a chef or floorstaff or whatever to alter the existing to what the customer wants, that item is contaminated - no ifs or buts. There is absolutely no excuse for doing that.

After all that is why we reset plates if something needs recooking, and it also serves to protect you from unforseen circumstances.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Mo. chef's collaborative has done 2 series of 6 dinners each had a vegetarian option....one was a total vegan meal...check out www.saucecafe.com under chef's collaborative's archives...the Harvest restaurant meal was vegan. Pretty cool to see high end creative restaurants do a 4 course vegetarian meal....a stretch for some of the guys others made amazing dishes.


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

I think we are getting a little sidetracked here in this discussion. The question is not, 'do restarants offer vegetarian items?' it is whether a restaurant should notify its guests about what is in their food (ie. should menus be full of warning labels and nutrional information). And the second question raised is, do we have a responsibility to try an eliminate as many potentially harmful items as possible from our food as a whole?


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## compassrose (Jun 1, 2001)

I don't think that chefs should be eliminating things from their items (just as I think it's going a bit far to have "peanut free" schools). People with allergies -- AND people with special dietary requirements -- do need to live in the real world, after all. We can't all go through life wrapped in a tender, legislated cocoon of contaminant-free organic cotton.

All I ask for is that restaurants make it EASY for me to get the information that I want, so that I can make my own choices. And I think that includes nutrition information, and any possibly dubious items: gelatin, alcohol, nuts and the like.

Is it a matter of "trade secrecy" that's making so many of the pros speaking to this issue sound so defensive?


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## marmalady (Apr 19, 2001)

Thanks, Pete, for keeping on track!

How can we 'remove harmful items' when we can't all agree on what those are?! I guess in items where I had an equivalent substitute - i.e. subbing out veg oil for peanut oil, I probably would opt not to use the peanut oil at all. But things like nuts (which are pretty much incorporated into a menu description, i.e. 'walnut brownie') I would leave up to the 'customer beware' thinking. After all, most of our customers can at least read! Unless the nuts or nut paste were in a sauce or something that wasn't in the description. 

As for the alcohol, I basically agree with the 'customer beware' approach, as most things with alcohol in 'em are labelled on the menu; but there are sauces, i.e. berre blanc, for example where, if you don't know how the sauce is made, you don't know there's alcohol in it. I'm bringing this up, because I used to work at a drug/alcohol rehab center, and dated one of the counselors, who was a recovering alcoholic. They're so stringent in telling folks they can't have things like even mouthwash, at least until their recovery is more or less under control. I know we can't (and shouldn't) adjust dishes to accommodate the minority, it just seems that to be fair, they should be alerted to the fact that there's alcohol in the sauce. 

As for the gelatin, Pete, I think most vegetarians are aware of the fact that it's made from feetsies of critters - other than that gruesome little fact, I don't think there's a health concern.

Re vegetarian/vegan dishes, I've seen a lot of restaurants put a star or asterisk on 'veggie' items on the menu. Fairly inobstructive, and it works. 

Good discussion, all!


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

I do not have any "secrets" in my cooking. I will be glad to tell anyone what is in anything and I train my servers to do so also. I object to "labeling" and nutrional information on my menus, because it looks tacky. I am not a grocery store item, pre-packaged and put on a shelf, and I have no wish to be considered in the same catagory (pompous and self-righteous, yes). Besides, there are legal considerations. If I put that one dish contains X amount of sodium and the cook uses a heavier hand than normal, then I could Legally be sued for misinformation.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Most people with allergies carry epi-kits just in case they ingest the wrong food items. It'll totally ruin a nice evening, but better to live to enjoy another day than not to live at all eh? In light of this, it's even more important that we either have well trained staff who can answer these questions. It's more important that we have an honest kitchen staff with integrity. More and more these days I'll ask a question about something and the answer will be something made up. For example, the other Sunday I went to a store to purchase a piece of furniture advertised at $99. I was told that it was a new item and for some reason it hadn't come in yet, and that when it came in I would receive a call. Two days later I went back and was told that the advertised item was a clearance item and not available anymore. You can imagine my ire, not that the item was no longer available, but that I was told a story. Anyway back to the point. We just have to be honest about it. If you know, tell them. If you don't know, say you don't know and that'll be the end of it. Just don't order the item. Now that, is being responsible.

Kuan


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

We're also not subject to labelling laws. By law, we're not required to provide nutritional labels for each and every item we create. We ARE, however, bound by our word when we claim something as "heart healthy" or "vegetarian," whatever that means.

Compassrose asked whether it was a matter of trade secrecy. I must admit, there really aren't any secrets in cooking. Those who tell you that there are secrets have deep rooted self-esteem problems. There are trademark and copyright issues, but those fall in the realm of business, not cooking. We like to think that cooking is an art above all of that! 

Kuan


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## daveb (May 1, 2001)

A major difficulty with being proactive in this area is the wild variety of things that people are allergic to. Taking my small universe as a case in point:

*Garlic:* My wife and her brother suffer extreme gastric upset (vomiting, diarrhea) within an hour of eating garlic.

*Tomatoes:* My wife's step brother breaks out in hives and has trouble breathing if he comes near tomatoes.

*Bananas:* My two brothers are both quite allergic to bananas in any form.

*Sesame:* An old friend eats peanuts with gusto, but has been hospitalized in anaphylactic shock after trivial contact with sesame seeds. He finds halvah lethal.

If you were being proactive, which of the above would you warn customers about? I expect only the Sesame (under "Nuts"). But if you didn't actually mention sesame, you still might have Ron dying in your dining room. A liitle garlic in the dressing? A touch of tomato paste in the stew? I think not.

Also, people with nut allergies may be in trouble if you cook *anything* with nuts as they can react to tiny amounts of residue and oil on tools or utensils.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

True allergies only apply to proteins. These proteins are normally found in eggs, shellfish, fish, soy, wheat, dairy, peanuts, and other nuts. Most other "allergies" are simply intolerances. For example, the green center part in garlic might cause indigestion in some people. The reason that some "other" nuts may kill some people is because of trace amounts of peanuts/peanut oil in the product. This is due to the processing environment. Some oils processing plants also process peanut oil, and some nut processing facilities also process peanuts. There's no reaction, just cross-contamination.

Kuan


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## peachcreek (Sep 21, 2001)

I run into this situation often enough. What is now my standard answer when someone asks about a specific ingredient I ask is it a food allergy or a preference. The reason being the possibility of trace amounts of the allergen. If someone is horribly allergic, then just removing the allergen, in my estimation also includes anything it touched. If someone just has a preference, then just not putting in the ingredient is usually enough. and not worring about a trace amount or by-product. I take food allergies VERY seriously. A good waitstaff will be able to talk knowlegeably about the food and how it is prepared and know how to find the right answer about specific ingredients. But also I have found that customers with serious allergies know to ask ALL the questions. Lets face it- their lives might depend on it.


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## compassrose (Jun 1, 2001)

But what counts as a "preference"? What about religious dietary restrictions, for instance -- remembering the recent McDonald's french fry lawsuit?


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

It seems clear, one you're dead or on the way to the hospital the other you are not


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## chiffonade (Nov 29, 2001)

One of the caveats of dining out is that you don't have control over what goes into your meal. One does not dine out frequently if one expects to 1) eat healthy, or 2) lose weight. Meals out are a _treat_ for those with dietary restrictions and health concerns.

One almost _expects_ to sin when eating a restaurant meal. It's accepted that it's probably not the lowest-cal thing you'll eat this week. If a customer wants information on a specific meal because they are forced by circumstances to dine out frequently, he or she can either ask the waitperson to go to the kitchen and get a list of major ingredients including oils or fats; or, alternatively, if it's not busy, ask the chef to come out and explain the cooking method. *The only thing the house owes the customer is an accurate representation of what's on his or her plate when the house is asked to surrender such an explanation.*

There is also providing the dreaded "light" section of the menu which never looks very appealing to me.


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## compassrose (Jun 1, 2001)

Sorry, chiffonade, but....

****sob****

:smiles:


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

Kuan, I agree and disagree with your statement that we are not bound by labelling laws. True we are not legally required to provide nutritional information or ingredients (or their amounts), but if you put that on your menu, voluntarilary, in many states you are required to be truefully to that information. Some states have very strict guidelines for labelling menu items "heart healthy" and other states will prosecute under "truth in advertising" laws. Unless you have a chemist and a nutrionalist on site, I would stay away from printing nutritional info on your menus.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

You gotta good point Pete. I think we're bound by our conscience to be truthful in any case. Whether or not it's the law, we should try as hard as possible to adhere to what we say we do. I think "Heart Healthy" is a sort of trademark of the American Heart Association (AHA). I remember seeing a brochure a few years back about this. Must have found its way into the trash real quick. So anyway, it's my suspicion that if we want to put "Heart Healthy" on our menus, we need the approval of the AHA. Anyone care to confirm or deny this?

Kuan


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

I don't know if you need to have the approval of the AHA, but I know in Vermont (at least a few years ago) the state had certain guidelines that a restaurant had to follow if they wanted to use the term "heart healthy". Both sodium and fat had to be below a certain level, and you had to have the recipe reviewed by a licensed nutritionist or dietician (I don't remember which).


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## devotay (May 14, 2001)

I have had a number of potential "nightmare customers" turn themselves into dream customers by showing up with a little business card, usually prepared for them by their allergist, which details which items are bad and which are OK. They give these cards t the server, who pass them along to me, and I can tell them in 30 seconds 2 or 4 items they can have with no problem. As a Chef, I love these things. Wish I could find a way to encourge more people to do that.

On the flip side, about an hour from here there is a large University that specializes in Transcendentalism - levitation, the whole deal. I do not begrudge them their faith, far from it. But when the Maharishi instructs them to cut the ENTIRE allium family from their diets (that's no onion, garlic, shallot, chive, scallion, leek, etc) so that they can levitate properly, and then they come to my Mediterranean restaurants and ask what there is that does not contain any of that.... Well, I have to bite pretty hard on my lower lip to keep from replying "Tiramisu."

Peace,
kmf


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Love the card idea, it just makes good sense.


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## lynne (Oct 6, 2001)

my 2 cents:

I do believe that the onus lies with the customer, BUT I think that we are obligated to label or list out ingredients that are a surprise or different from the norm. Servers should know what is in a product -- if I ask and they say "no" because they can't see it and it shows up on my plate - I get frustrated. I also think that is why a restaurant should have consisitancy within its own recipes. Ie the chicken noodle soup I get there on Monday should have the same ingredients as when I order it on Friday. 

I have allergic reactions to walnuts, swiss cheese and eggplant and have a major aversion to bell peppers. I know what "should" be safe but....

A couple of examples:

The fudgy choclate torte that had no mention of the walnuts I'm allergic to... fudgy chocolate walnut torte would be a much better description.

The garlic aioli made with roasted red peppers (who would have known?)

Oil & Vinegar ordered for a salad -- the oil was walnut!

Hummus that was a combo of hummus and babaganoush -- the eggplant that was so unexpected ...

Pecan Brownies - filled with walnuts -- the server should have told us of the change...

With alcohol in a recipe, I make sure I always repeat the ingredient when serving...Amaretto peaches with... or X with a white wine beurre blanc... Is it redundant, yes, but I'd prefer that to being the one that creates a problem with a recovering addict. 

In the meantime I protect myself and ask if the macadamia crusted bass with viniagrette contains walnut oil (yes) and if the tuna tartare with aioli is the red pepper one or not (depends on the whim of the day).


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## chef david simpson (Sep 25, 2000)

Remember, healthy is better then butter!!!!


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## devotay (May 14, 2001)

_Nothing_ is better than butter.:lips:

Peace,
kmf


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## chef david simpson (Sep 25, 2000)

Well, it sounds good! Lol


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## labsdad (Feb 22, 2007)

*Just be aware that the **Food Allergen Labeling and Consumer Protection* *Act which took effect 1/1/06 was enacted to label/describe to food preparers the contents of packaged foods. These labels list all of the *eight major foods or food groups--milk, eggs, fish, Crustacean shellfish, tree nuts, peanuts, wheat, and soybeans-- account for 90 percent of food allergies;
My story is about my milk allergic/asthmatic 11 year old daughter who nearly died from being served chicken soup containing milk. The server was directly and repeatedly told of the allergy and as well the manager, just prior to being served the soup...it's contents were clearly listed on a can of base CONTAINS MILK (refer to labeling Act). It is all that was ordered for her due to the worry asociated with"eating out" 
What I would like to say is this; 2% of adults and 5% of infants have food allergies someone should target this sensitivity and provide an eating place that is "allergy aware". When these customers arrive have a trained member of the staff ask them details of their allergy and go from there. Be careful of cross contamination and stay recipe consistent, this is very marketable. Of course it would be a positive life changing event for those parents of allergic children and allergic adults as well. This practice can be well modeled after the Disney folks who are very allergy aware and always send a chef to the table to discuss the allergies, what restraunts are busier then these? Thanks for your time!


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## jayme (Sep 5, 2006)

I have seen restaurants that have adopted small logos next to the menu listings- ie, vegetarian item, may contain nuts, low-fat/heart healthy, etc... Perhaps that is an option for restaurants who wish to better service the needs of their customers without turning the menu (or waitstaff) into an ingredient label. But I feel it IS our responsibility to be sure that when we label a dish "vegetarian" that it actually IS- no chicken broth, gelatin (as in many sour creams), lard, etc. (My sister has been vegetarian for many years and I have learned to read labels when I prepare holiday family meals). But I do agree that it is the consumer's responsibility to notify or ask staff if there is something they need to avoid. We don't ask a grocery store to set up special "vegan isles" - if a person has particular food choices or allergies, they already know how to make the proper choices when shopping..... dining should be the same. We serve the general public and that is who should be primarily accomodated.


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## jayme (Sep 5, 2006)

Lynne- Now THIS would be more a case of not knowing the menu item- Baba Ghanoush= eggplant, olive oil, lemon juice, garlic, tahini- that would be a situation to ask what an unfamiliar term/item IS. Rather than the restaurant pulling a fast one. (now, the walnuts in the pecan brownie.... I'd have to complain!)


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## steve a (Mar 13, 2006)

I know I'm just beating a dead horse issue, but it comes down to _*personal responsibility*_.

We, as operators of food service business are there to make money. In order to do so we choose our route of the venture. Normally that means we sell to the largest number possible. That means, we sell to the 'average Joe.'

Those with allergies, health concerns of other sorts (fats, carbs, cholesterol, etc.), should be responsible for themselves.

My 2¢ and now I'll get off the soapbox.

Ciao,


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## castironchef (Oct 10, 2005)

Well, SteveA, I'm afraid that your view of "personal responsibility" leads to a lack of you taking responsibility personally. 

If someone with a food allergy comes into your restaurant and informs the staff of the allergy and is, nonetheless, served food than includes the allergan, your restaurant will be morally and financially responsible. (So much for just being there "to make money.")

Selling food to real live people carries with it a whole lot of responsiblity, which we all need to take personally.


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## tcapper (Aug 29, 2006)

Hi guys not completely related but worth a read.

http://www.chefsworld.net/chefs_foru...=1&FTID=f1o%3D

Check out the Reply !

www.chefsworld.net


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## powers (Dec 7, 2006)

I personally think that a restaurant has a responsibility to inform (on menu) common allergies. It is in no way [possible to address all possible allergies. Having any condition is a responsibility in itself. I am in recovery from drugs and alcohol. I can't expect a restaurant to address this on their menu. If that were the case ten they would have to address the eating disoders as well. "The items on this menu contain FOOD, if you have any allergies or addictions to FOOD, then we will not be able to cater to your needs." I can see it now, now that I've said this, there will be some kind of lawsuit like this. haha he put FOOD in my meal and I had a relapse. 
Society is ridden with silly "conditions" which sometimes effect the ones that really have issues. From a liability standpoint I go above and beyond what is required to inform. I feel an obligation as a business owner. My product is quality and I want to make sure that I am allowed to continue to serve it. I don't wanna get sued by someone looking to make a quick buck. It's almost happened before.


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## mochefs (Mar 8, 2007)

I have celiac disease, an immune condition in which I can't have wheat or gluten....and eating out of course is a nightmare. (How ironic that I write about food you say?) Yet I do believe it's *my* responsibility to ask and be informed...however....responsibility is a big word.

I of course always ask about specific products, but is the server or cook 'responsible' because they didn't think about the flour that was used in that roux? The gluten in the anti-caking agents for the spices they used? Etc. etc. Of course not.

But I have two strong comments on this issue. First, to the original posters question. I don't think you have any obligation whatsoever, but keep this example in mind....1 in 250 people have celiac disease. Lately there have been a few restaraunts offering menus which list their gluten-free items, and as a community we seek out and frequent those restaraunts like crazy people. So I would think it's a very good differentiator and business decision these days to pro-actively facilitate certain audiences. You'll never meet more loyal customers.

Lastly, my general comment is that many folks in the service industry despise (many times rightfully) that pain in the *** customer who has all sorts of crazy requests and questions. The problem is that it is sometimes difficult to tell those people who are just difficult, picky, latest fad diet arseholes from those who are asking for very serious reasons (yes, I did just minimize an entire group of people. I don't like you, sorry.)....and on more than one occasion I've had kitchen staff disregard some request I've made thinking that it was something I would never notice but leaves me ill for the next several days. So just be careful out there.

[p.s. - To the earlier poster who stated " most people dining out these days are doing it for reasons of necessity, not as a treat." I would say that you view the world through very different lenses than most of us. While I don't know that I would put it into a category of always being a 'treat', I vehemently disagree with the notion that it's *ever* a necessity...particularly for someone with allergies, etc. Just because it's difficult to be a social animal in this society without eating out doesn't mean that its required. It's an 'entitled' point of view that by proxy implies that a restaraunt must therefore "meet your needs". Restaraunts are businesses, don't like that business? Don't go there. But please don't try and say "I *have* to eat there, and you therefore *have* to accomodate me."]


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

There is no need for a menu to be full of warning labels and nutritional information, however, the restaurant staff should be prepared to accurately provide that information should a guest ask about it. As was mentioned earlier, it's easy enough to inform the staff what goes into the food, and having the waitstaff carry a small notebook with the information shouldn't be a hardship.

That said, I've seen many menus on which there are little symbols next to each item indicating whether a meal was low calorie, diabetic-friendly, vegetarian, etc. All that needs to be done is to alert the customer, in any of several ways, that the staff is willing and able to accurately answer any questions the guest may have about the food. The restaurant needn't make a big deal out of this, but it should be clear and obvious to the customers that this option exists.

And yes, a restaurant should "try to eliminate as many harmful items as possible" from their food, within, I'd say, some clear definition of what those items may be.

Ultimately, it's the customer's decision to ask about the things that are important to him or her.

Shel


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Many of the supermarkets in my area have a Kosher section, a section for oriental food, a section for Mexican and Latin food, their meat cases contain a section for Kosher meat, there are sections for organic foods ... why not something for Vegans or vegetarians if the customer base is there?

Shel


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## cacook (Jan 18, 2006)

My sister is a vegan as well as all of her friends, and from my experience, they cook more than they eat out. Seems like thai is the food of choice for vegans.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Here in Berkeley, and in the San Francisco area in general as well as in certain other parts of the state, there are any number of vegan, vegetarian, and organic foods restaurants. If the demand is there, someone will supply it.

Shel


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## ras1187 (Oct 3, 2006)

While common allergens should be addressed, and I feel they usually are, if a guest knows they are allergic to something uncommon, they should inquire for the benefit of their health.

Reading the menu can solve alot of problems. If I were deathly allergic to something, I would read the description at least 3x and then verify with the server to make sure XXX is not included in my dish. Alot of people will quickly browse the menu, order, and then send back the dish because they didnt know that XXX is in the dish, even though it is stated on the menu.


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## clove (Feb 14, 2005)

Ideally, I would love it if customers with severe allergies could let us know a day in advance. 
I do pastry and have had several occasions where I am asked by the server about a gluten-free (dairy-free, etc.) dessert right as the customer is waiting to order. At that point I can usually only offer sorbets or fruit, but on the ocassions when I have received advance notice, I have been able to make something special. 
When I first got gluten-free requests, I would worry about the not-so-obvious sources of gluten -is baking powder and cornstarch OK? What about glucose (yes, it is wheat based, but I have heard the gluten is removed in processing). Oats should be safe, but then I was told they are often processed on the same equipment as flour. It is so confusing if I don't live with it everyday. Giving the restaurant notice would help the customer get better service.


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## mochefs (Mar 8, 2007)

So, I'm listening to a new podcast at the moment from the "Culinary Podcast Network" and it happens to be related to this discussion and particularly my earlier post regarding Celiac disease. I'm still listening to it so I can't yet say how good it is.

If you have any interest you can take a quick listen to this podcast. The chef who made the gluten-free meal starts his interview around 28 minutes into the podcast if you want to skip forward.

You can find the link to listen to it here, as well as links to the celiac network: http://www.gildedfork.com/culinarypodcastnetwork/

"Jennifer and Chef Mark attended a special gluten-free dinner at Chef Aaron Sanchez's Centrico Restaurant, hosted by Red Bridge Beer, a benefit for the National Foundation for Celiac Awareness. We spoke with Chef Sanchez, Elizabeth Hasselbeck from The View, Brewmaster Kristi Zantop and Vanessa Maltin of the NFCA, and learned about this auto-immune condition."


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