# Question about international what do you think



## topher134 (Feb 14, 2007)

I have been researching this for about 6 months while I have wanted to do this as a career since I was a kid. So here is my question I am currently looking at 2 schools LCB Paris, or the Ritz Paris, Maybe LCB Ottawa. So here is my question do you think going international to study french cuisine first hand gives you an upper-hand on finding a better job when you graduate compared to a school here in the states. I had planned on going to school then getting a job over there for a period of a year or two just to get all the experience of french cuisine I can and absorb another culture. It's just you would hate to make such a big commitment and then come back and work on a line beside some community college culinary graduate, not saying that's bad but I think you can understand. I am not worried about the cost of living or the other details that go along with leaving the county like I said I have been doing a ton of research. Is there anyone who can relate or have an opinion, thanks allot everyone


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## topher134 (Feb 14, 2007)

come on don't be shy I'm know someone has some input


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## topher134 (Feb 14, 2007)

whats up with you guys I mean nobody has any input come on now


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## greg (Dec 8, 1999)

First, never underestimate (or overestimate, for that matter) someone based on the school they went to. One of the better chefs I know locally went through a local community college program; he was good enough for James Beard House, so he's good enough for me.

Towards the top of the page on the topic list, you'll see a box that says "search this forum". Click on that and enter "le cordon bleu". You'll find a bunch of relevant material there.


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## breton beats (Feb 21, 2007)

Since you asked for a response here is one. The first question is what is your professional goals? If they include working in a professional kitchen I wouldn't really reccomend either of the schools you mentioned. If your whole goal is to work in France I still wouldn't. I am speaking from a co-worker of these graduates, as an employer of these graduates, and also these words are from graduates themselves (my employees)

The Paris LCB and Ritz are not programs that are designed to teach you to work in a real professional kitchen (despite their claims). Yes you will learn the classics, and yes you may even learn a lot of traditional techiques, and, get to do it all in metric. But you will not learn to do volume work, or to use professional equipment. All three of my employees ([email protected], and 1 at Ritz) feel like they wasted a lot of money, and so do I since I have had to re-train them. Yes they know a few dishes very well, but the foundations and theory and the general familiarity of the cooking world is not there. Both of the LCB graduates said they were 1 of the few students there training to be a cook, most where international women/girls who where just trying to improve their mariage-ability(the girls' words). Also french professionals have no respect for these schools so if you do go and want to get a job (in France) afterward don't say you went.

One of my biggest frustrations is that there remains this myth that France (and Paris) is still the epitome of cuisine or even french cuisine. (Ironically all the french media bemoan the fact that the french don't know how to eat anymore. I actually just stopped my subscription to my french cooking magazine, I was tired of all the "american cusine" in it.) I love France, I love cooking in France; it is my second home. But I do not think that it offers any greater cooking training than here in the US. Various social and labour laws in France have driven many chefs here to the states.

Again I ask you what is your ultimate goal for culinary education. If you just love food and want a great experience, go wherever. If you truly want to work in the professional cooking field than you need to do research as to what kind of schooling will give you the best foundation and professional preparation for that.

"It's just you would hate to make such a big commitment and then come back and work on a line beside some community college culinary graduate, not saying that's bad but I think you can understand."

Hmm I am wondering if you understand. Have you been researching beyond the brochures. You will be lucky if right out of culinary school (no matter how fancy it was) you will even get a job on the line. And consider this, many top chefs will only hire from community colleges because they don't want the attitude that comes from graduates who think they are better because they went to a big name school. I would hate for you to make that commitment and come in to my place thinking your where going to be making rabbit fricasse and macrons. You might but you will also be peeling a lot of carrots, scooping cookie dough, cleaning out the ovens, organizing the walk in freezer, and trimming baby artichoke hearts.

France is a great place to live and cook but unless you have some good contacts (easier made in American Culinary schools where many French chefs now teach), it is much better for you to get some basic training in any school and then get some real world experience. Then go do a stage in a restaurant of your choice. I am curious as your research on "affording it" I don't know your situation but believe me when I say it costs about 2000-3000Euro a month to live in Paris, that is if you share a room and don't do any traveling or shopping etc... And yes being a student allows you to work, no, actually it allows you to _apply for a work permit_ (part time only), a process that can take about 6 weeks to 6 months. But then you have consider the high unemployment rate in France and Paris, the severe immigration issues in France/Paris. And they're coming up on an election year so all those issues will make it harder for foreigners to find work.

You might be able to find a stage, if you are REALLY good, REALLY gregarious, and fluent in French and the metric system.

As a chef, and now business owner I frequently tell applicants that I can teach anyone to make a consomme, french lamb, or make a creme brulee; what I cannot teach is the desire and love of the professional cooking world. What I expect from an applicant is 1. A work ethic that allows them to do any task no matter how fun or tedius, work long hours on their feet, work holidys and weekends, 2. A basic understanding of professional equipment: sheeter, 60-qt mixer, robe coup, combi, flat top, deck oven, tilt skillet etc.. 3. A basic understanding behind cooking theory why things do what they do, and how to problem solve when they don't. 4. And the ability to move quickly and work in bulk: 20# of shrimp before service, scoop 50# of cookie dough.

I ranted long enough. I don't know about all the other LCB's and I welcome all the LCB paris people to come out in defense. Good luck with your choice. I have lived and worked in France for many years, I also went to a US culinary school and am soooo glad I went to the one I went to. If you have any more questions i can try to answer or give more opinions. 
Peace


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## sgmchef (Sep 30, 2006)

Hi there topher 134,

I have worked with a large cross-section of cooks and chefs from many different schools and backgrounds. What separates them into differing levels of competence was not what school they went to. I attended _La Verenne_, in Burgundy and it was a great break from work and someone else paid the big $$$$ for me to attend. It was fun but not really all that useful. I have worked with a CIA grad that just couldn't cook and a Green-card, French Chef, that was an OK cook but still got fired. Was it these institutions that failed to give them proper training? I doubt it; they just didn't have the passion for it. A classmate of mine at the Community college could recite the ingredients and techniques for over sixty sauces! The instructors were as impressed as the rest of us, but he still couldn't get the hang of MAKING THEM! Poor Dan…. anyway, you sure have the culture aspect right; if you go to France you will love the whole food experience! Have you explored becoming a _stagier? _That would be an eye opener!

Out of curiosity, do you know how salt interacts with different foods? That is always my first question to new cooks. Cooking is founded in science and knowing why things happen will make the journey a lot easier. I know… this last bit didn't have anything to do with school questions, but I thought I would add it anyway for you to think about!

Ultimately, it is more about YOUR passion and dedication to learning the fundamentals of food preparation that will determine your future.

Good luck!


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