# Spices/dried herbs for mediterranean salad?



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

I was working in an area which has a lot of mediterranean restaurants and I sampled salads from 3 different restaurants. All of them were something like cucumber-onion-green bell pepper-tomatoe-black olives-feta with healthy dose of olive oil. 

One thing that stunned me is that all of them had spices and dried herbs. I've never thought of putting spices or dried herbs in a salad! OK maybe Sumac, but that's as far as I've ever been. 

So aside from Sumac, what kind of dried herbs do you recommend trying? 

It was very good but very hard (for me anyway) to pinpoint what kind of herbs they were using.


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

Sometimes I add oregano.  Sometimes I add herbes de provence.  Sometimes I just add some lemon thyme.  Depends on what I'm serving the salad with...!


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Thanks Ishbel. I was thinking of a salad that is served by itself, for example as an appetizer. Or maybe as a side to a grilled pork chop or lamb chop. 

I was thinking that it there was probably some dried oregano in the salads I ate, but there were definitely more than one spice/herb, I suppose they make their own dried herb mix...


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## chrisbelgium (Oct 2, 2010)

I'm not in favor of using dried herbs in salads at all. Remember, a lot of dried herbes taste many times stronger than fresh ones. However, a small amount of dried herbs and spices mixed in olive oil or the vinaigrette first would work.

I prefer fresh "soft" herbs in salads. It's summer and they are abundantly available; parcely, oregano, chives, tarragon, savory, lemon verbena, lemon melissa, mint, basil. I grow all of these in my garden except for basil that goes in a large flowerpot. I keep it inside since I discovered it doesn't like rain and sunshine. I made several batches of pesto this year from just 1 basil plant! Incredible, it keeps growing.

The "not-soft" herbs like rosemary and thymes don't go in my salads. But again, there are no rules in cooking except your own.

Yesterday I made cannelloni with Barilla lasagna sheets that I precooked shortly to soften. Filled them with ricotta + an egg, a little panko and a fresh herb mixture. I blanched 2 generous handfulls of ruccola for maybe 20 seconds together with parcely, tarragon, lemon verbena and lemon melissa. Cool in icewater, cut the herbs roughly with a knife (don't blend!) and mix in the ricotta with a nice amount of grated parmezan. Put on softened lasagne sheets and roll into cannelloni. Cover with a light tomato sauce and parmezan. 30 minutes in the oven... waaaw!


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Someone should get in touch with Greece and tell them to stop with the dried oregano.

BDL


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

Not just Greece, BDL - I've had it added to salads in Spain, Portugal and even (gasp)Italy!


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## nicholas beebe (Jul 22, 2011)

No, no, no, no. One of my favorite greek salads was tomato, cucumber, onion, oil, salt, and vinegar tossed together with feta and kalamata olives on top. It was great when the tomatoes were in season. Dry herbs in such salads are just going to stay all desiccated. The texture isn't appealing. If they are ground and left in a pre-mixed vinaigrette, they can add flavor to that vinaigrette, but I see no reason to go with dry if you can get fresh for a reasonable price. If you are using herbs in a salad that you are mixing a la minute, use fresh. Always use fresh. If you don't have fresh ingredients for a greek salad, don't make a greek salad.

tl,dr: Fresh herbs taste better and have better texture. Use fresh herbs.


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

I have eaten Greek salads in mainland Greece and many of the islands.  They are generally sprinkled with DRIED herbs, usually on the feta, and under the olive oil,  as I think BDL was trying to say.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Ishbel has my meaning pretty closely.  Dried herbs in salads are very common in every part of the Mediterranean -- or at least everywhere I've been and that's a lot of places (Spain, France, Italy, Sicily, both sides of the Adriatic, both sides of the Aegean, Greece, the Greek Islands, Malta, Turkey, Israel, and Morocco).  They may not use dried herbs much in Chris's part of Belgium and wherever Nicholas is from, but in the Med they do. 

I tried saying it funny, but it didn't penetrate. 

Salads are by no means their exclusive province.  By way of one example, it's very common throughout the region to crush dried herbs between the fingers and sprinkle them on grilled meats just as they come off the fire.

BDL


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

_I tried saying it funny, but it didn't penetrate_.

Maybe not with some folks, Boar. Me, I got a good chuckle out of it.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Thanks guys. So aside from dried oregano and sumac, any other idea?


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Originally Posted by *French Fries* 


> Thanks guys. So aside from dried oregano and sumac, any other idea?


As a start, if I knew anyone from... say... France, I'd ask "_Amigo, que clases de yerbas en fines herbes?_" Why would I ask in Spanish? Another good question. Quien sabe?

[Gallic shrug]

BDL


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

boar_d_laze said:


> As a start, if I knew anyone from... say... France, I'd ask "_Amigo, que clases de yerbas en fines herbes?_" Why would I ask in Spanish? Another good question. Quien sabe?
> 
> [Gallic shrug]
> 
> BDL


Thanks BDL. By 'fines herbes' do you mean specifically chives, chervil, parsley and tarragon? In France we use the term 'fines herbes' to designate just about any cooking herb, really.


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## nicholas beebe (Jul 22, 2011)

Sorry I wasn't helpful before OP. Thyme, marjoram, tarragon, basil, and dill leap to mind. I'd be looking for anything that wouldn't overpower such a mild salad or give it an unpleasant texture. Juniper berries might be good, but they might throw off the texture. Maybe see if you can grind them with a mortar and pestle? I've never tried it. I've never had good luck with dried parsley or chives, especially parsley. It kind of reminds me of the bedding used in hamster cages, but your mileage may vary.

BDL: Sabes porque ellos los hacen? I don't understand why people from a region where fresh herbs should be easy to obtain would pick dried over fresh.


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## rgm2 (May 28, 2011)

So then maybe any cooking herb that is common the to area of the Mediterranean you are channeling with your meal. Just a thought...


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Nothing wrong with dried herbs. As BDL states they are used all over the planet. I say that with a provisso that you do not use the jar of oregano or thyme you have had in your pantry for 2 years. Also keep in mind a little bit of good dry herbs go a long way so be careful with quantity used. Also cooking makes thm stronger in most cases.


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## chrisbelgium (Oct 2, 2010)

boar_d_laze said:


> As a start, if I knew anyone from... say... France, I'd ask "_Amigo, que clases de yerbas en fines herbes?_" Why would I ask in Spanish? Another good question. Quien sabe?
> 
> [Gallic shrug]
> 
> BDL


 

Wait a minute, "_*fines herbes*_" are ALWAYS a combination of FRESH herbs, mostly parcely, chives, tarragon and chervil, many times combined with finely chopped shallot. It's used and well known in rounds of butter served on grilled meat etc. in french aka "buerre maître d'hôtel". You will also find fines herbes in omelettes, sauce tartare, béarnaise, choron, in vinaigrettes and other preparations. I dry a lot of my own homegrown herbs. Don't know if you ever tried dried parcely or chives? Well, taste is.. zero. Dried tarragon tastes like... hay!

Then there's "_*herbes de provence*_" which is ALWAYS a combo of DRIED herbs, obviously from the Provence region in France. It contains mainly thyme, rosemary, oregano and/or marjoram, savory. In the seventies and eighties of the past century, people threw it on everything, mostly also on grilled meat, not on salads. Nowadays it's almost a sin in gastronomy to use herbes de provence, as most contemporary chefs make a more appropriate and more refined choice of herbs they use in specific recipes, mostly fresh -when available- of course!

A propos, I do still like herbes de provence on grilled lamb. I throw handfuls of it on the hot charcoal on the bbq, just for the ambiance, the smell reminds me of the south of France many years ago.

BTW, love your spanglish BDL! Also, one small hint for next time; it's hierbas, not yerbas.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

boar_d_laze said:


> Someone should get in touch with Greece and tell them to stop with the dried oregano.
> 
> BDL


I agree completely... but only on salads. Dried oregano has wonderful purposes, even more so than fresh oregano imho - I love it on roasts and grilled meats. But unless it has been mixed in a vinegraitte and allowed to permeate the vinegraitte I don't want it on my salad. But as Siduri and I surmised in a previous thread, there is no such thing as making a vinegraitte in a jar, the salad is dressed one ingredient at a time and the dried oregano always is the last to be sprinkled on top. Unfortunately you can't get a greek to change their ways no matter how much you pay them. There will forever be dried oregano sprinkled on top of feta sitting on top of a "greek" salad.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Herbs de provence were a requirement in al Pate's at one time


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

It may nowadays be 'almost a sin against gastronomy' to use herbes de Provence, Chris, but I still use it a lot.  But then, I'm an iggerant Scotswoman!


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

> Originally Posted by *Koukouvagia*
> 
> There will forever be dried oregano sprinkled on top of feta sitting on top of a "greek" salad.


Hi Koukovagia, I was secretly hoping you would join this discussion! So in Greece, they only put dried oregano, no other dried herb/spice?


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

French Fries said:


> Hi Koukovagia, I was secretly hoping you would join this discussion! So in Greece, they only put dried oregano, no other dried herb/spice?


They use lots of dried herbs in greece but on salad only oregano. Spices? Never. In greek cooking there's lots of always and nevers.


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## chrisbelgium (Oct 2, 2010)

KKV, don't know how greek it is but cheese shops over here have fresh feta but also sell feta preserved in olive oil with oregano and sometimes other stuff like tiny chopped chili.

I presume they use only dried oregano for that as well to keep the oil from going bad? Using a chunk of that delicious preserved feta always has oregano from the jar over it. Is that a common thing in Greece to preserve feta? Do you make that yourself?


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Koukouvagia said:


> They use lots of dried herbs in greece but on salad only oregano. Spices? Never. In greek cooking there's lots of always and nevers.


Great, thanks a lot.


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

KK

On some of the Greek islands, for instance, Cyprus, Xanthe and Corfu, you can buy a little shaking pot of what is called 'Salad herbs' - dried oregano with a couple of others, I think pepper and perhaps thyme and or dill.

I also know that a lot of Greek dishes on some islands are heavily spiced with cinnamon*.  I know that I don't like to eat certain dishes on Corfu, because of that heavy cinnamon taste!  It's one of the few spices that I positively dislike to detect in savoury dishes, but adore in sweet ones.

Edited to add:  I have been told that this is the Venetian influence from when they ruled some of the Mediterranean islands.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

I did mean _herbes de Provence_.

:_mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa _smiley:

:so sue me, sue me, shoot bullets through me smiley:

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/lookaround.gif

:_pinche cabron_ smiley:

BDL


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Ishbel said:


> KK
> 
> On some of the Greek islands, for instance, Cyprus, Xanthe and Corfu, you can buy* a little shaking pot of what is called 'Salad herbs' *- dried oregano with a couple of others, I think pepper and perhaps thyme and or dill.
> 
> ...


Cinammon is a spice that is used in certain greek dishes, I put a pinch of it in the meat sauce I make for moussaka. Not enough to identify as cinammon when you taste it, but enough to make you say "what is that?"

As for the pot of salad herbs my instinct tells me that this is made for tourists.


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

I don't think so - the label is in Greek and it was a Corfiot taverna owner who told me what to look for in a local shop!  I don't have any left since my trip there earlier this year, so I can't go to look for the name - but I know it is a Kerkyra product, not a mainland one.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

boar_d_laze said:


> I did mean _herbes de Provence_.
> 
> :_mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa _smiley:
> 
> ...


For that, BDL, you'll have to write "herbes de Provence" 25 times on the board, in Spanish, after class. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif

So I don't know about that idea. Ishbel already suggested that, but to me that doesn't sound good at all on a salad. Herbes de Provence is something I used to use all the time for "_grillades_" (piece of grilled meat): lamb chops, pork chops, chicken etc... - but I can't imagine adding them to a salad.

I suppose dried oregano, pinched to crumble in between your fingers, is as close as it gets to the answer I was looking for. I think they may be adding one or two other herbs or spices, black pepper is obviously a good idea...

Thanks all for your help!


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Koukouvagia said:


> Cinammon is a spice that is used in certain greek dishes, I put a pinch of it in the meat sauce I make for moussaka. Not enough to identify as cinammon when you taste it, but enough to make you say "what is that?"


I'm not a fan of cinnamon, and in fact I avoid it in desserts altogether. There are exceptions, for example speculaas.

But I love cinnamon when used tastefully as you describe, for example in a lot of north African cuisines... then it doesn't bother me at all.

Cinnamon never bothered me during my multiple trips to Greece! Loved the food.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

French Fries said:


> I'm not a fan of cinnamon, and in fact I avoid it in desserts altogether. There are exceptions, for example speculaas.
> 
> But I love cinnamon when used tastefully as you describe, for example in a lot of north African cuisines... then it doesn't bother me at all.
> 
> Cinnamon never bothered me during my multiple trips to Greece! Loved the food.


That's funny, most people like it on desserts and not in savoury food. I love it any way I can get it.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Koukouvagia said:


> That's funny, most people like it on desserts and not in savoury food.


I know. I don't get it. Cinnamon on an apple tart? What a waste of a perfectly edible apple tart! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif

Then again I don't really get the whole lamb and mint thing either. Go figure.


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## chrisbelgium (Oct 2, 2010)

Like many spices, cinnamon is at its best in a mixture with other spices! Very strange but true.

I often use "_garam masala_" which contains some cinnamon next to a number of other spices. Garam masala spreads a very refined odor of cinnamon. I use it as a light dry rub with pork (totally delicious) or as an additive in different dishes like stews, particularly in osso buco (the version without tomatoes) and in moussaka. But as always with spices, it's a matter of the right dose; I go for minimal!


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

French Fries said:


> I know. I don't get it. Cinnamon on an apple tart? What a waste of a perfectly edible apple tart! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif
> 
> Then again I don't really get the whole lamb and mint thing either. Go figure.


Me, I can't eat an apple tart if it's not made with cinammon. I never understood the mint and lamb thing either until I started putting mint in my tzatziki - then it works somehow. Know what I don't understand at all? Pork and fruit. Yuck. I don't want fruit on my meat unless it's duck, and even then I can do without.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Koukouvagia said:


> I don't want fruit on my meat


Wow that leaves a LOT out. The wonderful world of tajines? Hawaiian pineapple fried rice, hawaiian pizza, hawaii toast? Are you ok with raisins in Indian food?

One of my best meal ever was when a friend of my parents prepared duck magrets roasted in the chimney, accompanied with grapes that he had peeled and seeded (it was the first time in my life I saw peeled and seeded grapes)! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/licklips.gif

Anyway, funny to see how different our tastes are.

PS: When I was a kid my mum once served us roasted bananas wrapped into a slice of ham. I found it utterly disgusting.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

French Fries said:


> Wow that leaves a LOT out. The wonderful world of tajines? Hawaiian pineapple fried rice, hawaiian pizza, hawaii toast? Are you ok with raisins in Indian food?
> 
> One of my best meal ever was when a friend of my parents prepared duck magrets roasted in the chimney, accompanied with grapes that he had peeled and seeded (it was the first time in my life I saw peeled and seeded grapes)! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/licklips.gif
> 
> ...


I guess I'm a little odd. I'm willing to go as far as melon and proscuitto but no further. Fruit in savoury dishes pushes my limit but I admit it's not something I crave. I'm not ok with raisins in any food, not even desserts. They are tolerated in a cinammon/raisin bagel.

I make a nice duck breast with blackberry sauce but I sauce my breast sparingly.

I was at Ikea the other day and I had the swedish meatballs with the lingonberries. I didn't make a yucky face so that's good lol.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

> Originally Posted by *Koukouvagia*
> 
> I was at Ikea the other day and I had the swedish meatballs with the lingonberries. I didn't make a yucky face so that's good lol.


Haha I always order the meatballs with lingonberries at IKEA too!


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