# drugs and alcoholism in the industry....



## fryguy (Sep 2, 2009)

i've been around the biz for over 30 years and have seen some crazy stuff. It seems that our industry has a much higher rate of drug and alcohol abuse, which i was a part of for many years. i'm currently 2 year sober, thank God for that one, and have several of my cooks who are struggling with this problem. You can do all the drug testing in the world but it is still there to a much larger extent than other indutries. what are your thoughts on this subject???? i'm sure i am much more sympathetic than most considering my back ground. How do you do food and wine parings if you don't drink?? this is something i'm dealing with that i have'nt got the answer to, except to just sorta fake it....

fryguy


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

You can PREDICT what a user of DRUGS will do, you can predict what the alcoholic or drinker will do. NO ONE (Doctor, law enforcement etc.) can predict that when you COMBINE the 2 ingredients, what that person will do or how they will act. For the sake and safety of my straight employees AND MY CUSTOMERS. I will not tolerate it in any setting. Sorry but that's the way I feel, call me old fashioned or whatever.:beer:

DON'T BLAME THE INDUSTRY, BLAME THE PEOPLE THAT DO IT.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

In all honestly I believe you should be straight and sober when you go to work and that goes for all industries not just ours. I have heard that our industry has a higher rate of drug and alcohol use/abuse than others and I wonder if it's the stress that does it to people.


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## even stephen (Oct 10, 2005)

One simple rule.....never when working.....the trick is finding some sort of 
moderate level......and absolutely "never when working".....I've seen plenty as well, from crack to heroin....it's sad.


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## lentil (Sep 8, 2003)

I think it's about the hours people in the food and beverage industry keep. When your day starts sometime in the morning and ends well into the night, it's hard to be "normal". Your friends tend to be those in the same business as you are and it's common to go out after work to relax which usually means having a couple of drinks. I know when I was single, I spent a lot of time "relaxing" especially when I was tending bar and managing bars. 

I'm just too darned tired at this age to do more than drive home and flop on the couch.....after I fold a load of laundry, empty the dishwasher, maybe cook a little dinner. These days, one drink will put me to bed.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

You have a good point, Lentil and after a shift in the heat of the war a drink is a nice way to relax. I'm too old for the drink thing.. my relax time is my ride home. I pay a little extra to buy a commuter train pass and I love it. It takes 10 minutes longer for me than the city bus but it's so quiet and peaceful and relaxing it's worth the extra fare and the ten minutes! I read my book call my hubby... I love my commute home.


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## trk (Mar 14, 2009)

I was just recently interviewed for an incredible job opportunity as a Private Chef for a high profile client. One of the job essentials was the ability and knowledge to pair wine with food, particularly since this client has an extensive wine collection. I didn't know how to approach the question when it was posed FOUR times other than to say that I was somewhat knowledgeable about wine pairing and whatever I didn't know, I would be capable of researching. I certainly did not want to divulge that I have been sober for the last six years and would not, under any circumstances, compromise that achievement. Turned out that someone else got the job but it did bring up some disturbing concerns for me as this is my chosen field and clients such as this one often want wine savvy chefs at their service.

I find I am definitely in the minority as an ex-addict and drunk. While nearly everyone I have worked with and currently work with indulges in some sort of mood altering substance, I've yet to meet anyone on the job who is in recovery. It can be difficult when the gang is all heading out for a drink after work but it's been years since I've done that. I try to find ways to engage socially that do not involve alcohol.

I also stayed away from restaurant work and stuck exclusively with Private Chef work for at least four years after jettisoning booze and drugs. It's a hard life in restaurants and difficult to learn how to handle the stress without resorting to chemical relaxers. To that end, I've had to sacrifice higher paying, higher-stress positions in favor of those that fulfill me in the ways that matter most.


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## chefmikee (Aug 4, 2009)

I have been sober for 19 years...Definetly difficult in this business, but I love waking up refreshed not hungover.People I work for and with all know I am sober and I have no problems with that. One thing I've learned is you can't change anyone but yourself, so don't try to change others.
This is the only work I love,and wouldn't think of ever doing anything else.


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## iconoclast (Aug 8, 2007)

i came from a background in finance, and there was a great deal of alcoholism and drug abuse there... ppl who look straight-edge were some of the biggest abusers... i guess any industry that is fast paced or stressful will have its fair share of users and abusers.


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## mont86 (Jan 24, 2009)

Its not just the food service, its everywhere...


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## trifoilum (Sep 2, 2009)

This's a big concern :\

anyone care to tell more about this? How hard is it if you're trying to be sober when everyone else probably isn't?

And wouldn't drugs and alcohol consumption affect work?


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

I think at some point it would. I hate the feeling of being hungover and I couldn't imagine being at work and having to focus in the fast pace of the kitchen while feeling hungup. Definitely not a good mix!


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## iconoclast (Aug 8, 2007)

i agree completely, i am not a kid anymore and sitting in class hungover vs. being at work are two completely different things... i never drink if i have work the next day, and i wouldnt bother trying to come in either if i was hungover... i would be useless.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

Never had a drinking problem, usually only special occasions.
I had a few when I went up to Portland last month, and a couple of beers in July, that's it so far this year.
Can't remember if I had a drink at all last year.
Did go through my speed, hallucinagenic and pot phases.
Out of all the things I've done, pot was the one I still enjoyed when I quit, the others I had grown tired of.
I quit smoking weed...it'll be 13 years next month.
I quit on my daughter's first birthday, so it's easy to remember.
I still have it offered to me from time to time, and I do pause for a moment, but I always strengthen my resolve and turn it down.
Obviously I still have some issues with it.

I've known some great cooks over the years that indulge in various things and still perform well, but they're the rare case.
I've also worked with some straight arrows that can't boil water consistently.

I've always told my people that all I care about is how they perform at work.
If they can lick cane toads and perform as I need them too, I have no issues.
But if they stay out too late stargazing, which is perfectly legal, and they call in or work slowly because of lack of sleep, then I have an issue with stargazing.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

In response to the original post, I think the building/construction trade--at least here in B.C. (British Columbia, Canada) has the highest amount of alcohol/substance abuse--*while on the job*.

Then again, it's been almost 14 years since I worked for anyone else, and even then I avoided Union kitchens like the plague, so maybe the hospitality biz here come a close second.

I like my booze, not a frequent drinker, but enjoy good wine, beer, and just about anything else. Never was big on drugs, even grass--tastes like buring rope....

The alcohol or drug abuser in the workplace is a hazard to all--to fellow employees, but also to the employer, as s/he will ultimately be at the wrong end of a lawsuit.

I've fired 3 employees in the last 10 years for being high/drunk at work. I always say the same thing to them:

"I don't care what you do on your time off. But if you have to drink/do drugs during an 8 hr shift you have serious problems."

Two of them tried to fight it and took it to the labour board. Stupid eejits--everyone knows we have a 3 month probation period here where either party can terminate without penalty......


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## john blaze (Aug 27, 2009)

man, booze/drugs seems like it goes hand in hand with this business.i have done my fair share of drinking and smoking never on the job and i didnt care how bad i felt never let it bother my performance.self induced sickness is not a valid reason to call out,thats chefs job to decide to send me home(never has happened)dont drink much any more and havent smoked for almost three years since married with kids dont miss it either if you can keep your stuff together i dont care what you do(not on the job though),what really sucks when the owners are the ones into the downward spiral though lost a couple good jobs,and miss a good set of kitchen soldiers due to there self destructive habits.

just my 2 cents


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## trifoilum (Sep 2, 2009)

Hmm, seems hard. D: it seems understandable, though --when the work hours are long and the kitchen's in heat.... it's definitely going to cause a lot of stress.

and it seems not so many people were able to handle the stress without alcohol and/or drugs?


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## cthompson (Sep 8, 2009)

I totally hear you on this one. I have only been in the industry for a little over 7 years now and it is everywhere. Actually before I went to culinary school, I never smoked pot or did anything else. I drank a good amount but nothing more. When I arrived at school there were too many temptations to pass up and I still smoke and drink to this day. Drinking for me is not a big deal, I do it maybe once a week if that and never when I have work the next day. I still smoke, like I said, and a lot of people in my kitchen do it too. I saw a lot of people talking about alcohol and just wanted to know about the pot situation in kitchen these days. I mean I find more chefs than not have a problem with pot than other things, but that is just my personal experiences. I also feel that is a justified action in the kitchen like having a beer after a busy night? Anyone else?


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

It depends on the person and how they choose to relax and de-stress I guess just like in any industry. Yeah the hours are long and the work is hard but for the most part the people who are there are there because they're passionate about what they do and couldn't imagine doing anything else. 
I'm not a big drinker (I like a glass of wine now and then but that's about it) and for me the best de-stresser is my ride home. I work in a breakfast place and we close at 3pm so I can take the transit home. On my ride home (and it's about 50 minutes) I read, knit, crochet, work on a hand quilting project or listen to my ipod. It's my time for me and I love it.


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## daveok (Feb 13, 2009)

Often in the kitchens when I worked, people would do lines and smoke up before work. The chefs knew this, but as long as you did your job and didn`t pass out or fall asleep they did not care. Also sometimes before the end of the shift, we would get shift beers. (a pitcher per person) I have smoked weed, but have always refused anything harder and I don`t smoke anymore due to the paranoia I get and I don`t like getting drunk as much anymore as I enjoy being in control of what I do.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

I think one of the reasons we deal with the drugs and alcohol so often is that this industry utilizes a lot of un-skilled labor. One of the most challenging jobs I ever had was as a Chef for Hilton. They loved to hire people that were just out of prison from the half way house. Most were addicted to crack. Theft was a huge problem when I took over that kitchen. This was made even worse by the fact that any one who said they "needed help" with their addiction by corporate policy could not be let go. 
I would guess a lot of us drink or do other things when we are young. Hopefully most of use grow out of it.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

think of how many kitchen staff are dyslexic.....how many learned kinesthetically in school (or crashed and burned with teacher that only taught from books/verbally/etc).

My drug of choice is aspirin/advil....so sad when you dump several in your pocket as part of "going to work". Dang feet, knees, back.....

I wonder how many illegal users would be eligable for prescribed meds.


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

I think you and I are from the old school, but we sure are outnumbered.!!:bounce:


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

You know DuckFat I think you have a point with that. If employers hire people fresh out of prison and they are addicted to crack (or whatever) it does appear to the outsider anyway that cooks and kitchen people are criminals and users and well.. we're not all like that. I saw a comment about that on a different message board and it was all I could do not to flame the person who posted that.. but I was polite and told him that there are honest, clean cooks out there.. you just have to find them!


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## trifoilum (Sep 2, 2009)

There are people who hired freshly released people -- even in Hilton? I can get the low pay but....even now? But then again, it's kinda unfair...it's confusing :\
it seems to be yet another factor to the high amount of drug user. 

and to leeniek, it's rather unfortunate to be categorized and stereotyped like that D: they just don't know >_>;

I haven't seen things like that here but it may be because of the very low ratio of alcohol consumption here. :\


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

I agree! In my experience the vast, and I do mean VAST majority are not like that at all. I think Anthony Bordains Kitchen Confidential painted a very good picture of the 80's but not such an accurate picture of the restaurant industry today. People read that and fail to take in to account that his book was based on events 25 years ago. 
IIR for every person they hired with a felony conviction the corporation received a 25k tax credit. 
Most I have worked with and for in this business are hard working good people.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

No, we're not.
Some of us were, however.
The greatest compliment I've received is when discussing past exploits with the crew, and older female cook said she couldn't picture me like that.
Exactly.
I'm not like that anymore.


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## little_chef (Sep 16, 2009)

since working in this industry i do not go a night without drinking, why???????
its starting now to effect my work and i been dooing thins for like 8 years, what the **** is happening, can anyone pleas tell me how to break this dumb and expencive cycle


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## treehugger057 (Mar 6, 2009)

Do what you please on your time! Come into my kitchen messed up and you can pack your knives! I smoke and drink. I am not claiming to be a saint. (**** I remember smoking under the hood after service years ago) I just would never dis-service my customers by coming in messed up. This is my name out there on those plates. 
Now I will say I have had more issues with RX meds than any other in my kitchens! I guess b/c it has their name on it and it is legal they dont feel like it is drugs. 

Little chef, All things in moderation. Good luck
tyler


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## nick.shu (Jul 18, 2000)

A simple rule of mine in regards to working, (as the pilots like to say

"Twelve Hours from Bottle to Throttle".

If ive had a drink, then i refuse any jobs coming until at least the next day. If Im offered a drink during service, then it can wait until after close.


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## hanratty (Sep 4, 2009)

Strictly a no for it from my side...


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## enny (Sep 21, 2009)

when i go out after work i have to drive so i need to get my car home, i end up being designated driver which is great! i have *SAVED THOUSANDS* of dollars this year by not being able to drink or use substances


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## chefboy2160 (Oct 13, 2001)

I am very surprised there has been no mention of a book(Tis Confidential) which was quite popular with us older cooks when it came out. The frequent mention of the drug and alcohol abuse as well as work conditions brought back a lot of memories for many of us. I am one of the lucky ones to have survived this period and looking back I can say sober life rocks...............


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## ryandwyer (Apr 17, 2013)

just would like to take a minute to reply to your post you talk so much rubbish its unreal.  I don't even believe that you are a proprieter  of a restaurant with views like that.i have worked in the industry for 11 years and there is no way way  u can sack your staff for liking a drink because the chances are the next one you employ will be worse . GTF


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## wurzel (Apr 18, 2013)

I've thought on this subject a lot myself over the years. I do believe the catering industry has more alcohol and drug abuse than most industries. I know the movers and shakers in the finance world are the same (if using rather more expensive products) and hospital staff are notorious for drug abuse.

In our case I think it's more about what kind of person is attracted to the work rather than dealing with the stresses of the job. Catering just attracts a particularly self destructive, not giving a damn about anything kind of person, I know that was me in my younger days and I'm fairly confident my current restaurant is the first one I've worked in without an active drug dealer on staff. (I say fairly confident as I'm the boss and I'm sure they wouldn't offer me anything if anyone was dealing)

I hope nobody takes this badly (I put myself firmly in this category) but restaurants just seem to be magnets for degenerates who get a buzz out of working insanely hard for little reward and playing with the darker aspects of life. The amount of S&M types I've worked over the years is also amazingly high; one guy who stole bicycles in his spare time for a laugh; another who nearly got sacked when he tried to give up weed, he starting falling apart in service and had to start again after 3 days; a dude who wouldn't work Saturdays because that was his heroine and hooker night; a prize fighter; an Eastern European covered in scars from knife fighting for sport, not money; a head chef who used to take the 3 best performing chefs of the night to his office for a line of coke every night half through service; a sous chef who was always so buzzed on ecstasy that he bounced up and down on the pass the entire night.. the list could go on for a long time.


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## pollopicu (Jan 24, 2013)

Quote:


leeniek said:


> I think at some point it would. I hate the feeling of being hungover and I couldn't imagine being at work and having to focus in the fast pace of the kitchen while feeling hungup. Definitely not a good mix!


Same thing went through my mind while reading this thread. I remember being hungover at work back in my hay day, and it's not something I ever want to do again. I'm the sole cook at my job, and I need to be sharp.

Just recently I worked with someone who would not only come to work with a hangover but would admittedly predict when it was going to happen warning others to be ready to pick up the slack. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/mad.gif


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## greatcheesecake (Mar 25, 2010)

Quite frankly, I seriously doubt that if the restaurant industry has a higher degree of substance abuse than other fields that it's by much. An alcoholic is a person who has 7 or more drinks per week.   You think it's bad in restaurants? The world of corporate management practically makes alcoholism a requirement. Have you ever been to a business meeting between two entities worth combined tens of millions of dollars? They get together, they get drunk, then they often drive home drunk. If I didn't know this to be true of dozens of corporations, I'd have something different to say on the affair. What do you imagine mechanics do at work? I'll tell you. They smoke pot and drink beer since the 80's ended and they couldn't afford to do blow while drinking beer any more. If it were just one shop in my town instead of almost all of them where that happened, I'd have some thing different to say on the affair. How about cops? I'm sure they lead such strict, sober lives. Except they don't. They sell drugs to make money on the side. They get drunk, they drive drunk, and they let each other go. That wouldn't happen, would it? If I didn't know for a fact that it does, I'd have something different to say on the affair. How about judges? Surely they have some self control and respect for the law.

NOPE.

I've had judges get me drunk knowing full well I was underage. Several of them. Why? They were alcoholics and wanted some one to get drunk with. 

The... world... is... full... of... people... getting... trashed. You're not going to change the world so just focus on yourself. In the mean time, please remember that alcoholism kills more people annually than every other drug except for cigarettes. You should never, ever, ever feed any a chunk of words so ignorant as "all other drugs are bad for you, stick to beer" when pot is far cheaper and less likely to result in the death of a user or bystander. Instead say this: "I would never suggest that any one use any sort of perception altering substance." At least that way you're not advocating that some one contribute to numbers like these - alcohol kills 2.5 million people annually. I'd say give or take, but it's all give from there on out. Cigarettes kill a couple hundred thousand people in the US alone annually. Every single year, 150,000 people in the US die from aspirin or caffeine usage. One human being in all of history has been killed by cancer contracted after a life time spent smoking nothing but pot. And he lived in California, so it was most likely caused by poor air quality. Again - I'm not advocating that any one ever at any point use drugs. I'm just pointing out that alcohol is more destructive than every other perception altering substance known to man. If you have to pick a horse to back in this race, try to pick a less murderous one.


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## rbrad (Apr 29, 2011)

In all of history???How could they have singled that guy out?


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## raibeaux (Dec 21, 2012)

Please elaborate a little on these things. It's very interesting.

*Every single year, 150,000 people in the US die from aspirin or caffeine usage.

*An alcoholic is a person who has 7 or more drinks per week.

*I've had judges get me drunk knowing full well I was underage.

*Alcohol kills 2.5 million people annually.

*One human being in all of history has been killed by cancer contracted after a life time spent smoking nothing but pot.

This is really interesting stuff. Could you please give some references for these facts? I sure didn't know it, and I would like to find out more. Such as,

*I was under the impression that there were around 2.5 million TOTAL deaths from all causes in the US per year.

*Do you happen to know where to find that one person's name that was diagnosed with pot cancer?

*I'm really interested to know more about the 150,000 aspirin and caffeine deaths. Where can I find more information confirming this? I'm sure other aspirin users (particularly heart patients like me) or coffee, tea and soft-drink drinkers would like to know as well. I do all this stuff.

By the way, if you can tell, how in the world did you wind up in the company of so many drunk judges wanting you to drink with them when you were underage. This sounds like a real "untold story" that should be told.


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## greatcheesecake (Mar 25, 2010)

https://secure.eznettools.net/D305742/X367201/science/health-issues/aspirin-rebound.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholism#Long-term_misuse

http://www.ncadd.org/index.php/in-the-news/155-25-million-alcohol-related-deaths-worldwide-annually

http://lungcancer.about.com/od/causesoflungcance1/f/marijuana.htm

http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/jcr.2013.1226?journalCode=jcr (,---caffeine)

You'll have to forgive me for choosing not to sentence half of an entire massive metropolitan area's traffic judges to some serious consequences for being irresponsible. Apparently I recalled incorectly that an alcoholic has 7 drinks a week, it's in fact 14 by some definitions. I didn't say there are 2.5 million US alcohol related deaths, I just said 2.5 million annual alcohol related deaths. I can't seem to find the name of the one person in all of recorded human history who was killed by pot exclusively. I came by the story I think about 6 or 7 years ago. There are some claims that marijuana contributed to deaths in the form of complications and accidents, but that's all I can find. Also, caffeine and aspirin related deaths usually arise as complications. You can rest assured that while my recollections aren't perfect, I haven't fed you a single line of total garbage. Enjoy! Google ftw


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