# Choosing First Gyuto



## Ravekage (Oct 12, 2018)

Hello everyone,

I am sure this is a question that has been posted many times, but I would really appreciate your help and opinions on this matter.

I am a home cook, have no professional experience and have almost zero knowledge about knives. I recently decided to purchase my first "real" knife. After perusing countless reviews on multiple websites, I have come across three brands in particular. MAC, Shun, and Victorinox. To be completely honest, I fell in love with the Shun knife. I really like its aesthetics, the history of the knife, and the quality. Though there are a lot of positive reviews, there seem to be quite a bit of negative reviews as well. 

I guess the question I want to pose is this: is the Shun Classic 8" a solid choice or is there a different Japanese brand that you would recommend? 

I plan on using the knife for all sorts of cutting, dicing, and slicing. I understand that Shun knives require more care than other brands and I am willing to invest the time it takes to keep it in good condition. 

Thank you in advance for any help or insight that you can offer.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

First thing, shun classic is not a Japanese knife, it is essentially a German Knife using Japanese steel. It has no exalted history, and its "quality" is questionable.

Whereas F+F is pretty good on Shun, blade quality is very mediocre. As example, a Tojiro DP is a better cutter in that it has a better profile and grind, also in VG-10 and with an HT no worse than you'll find with Shun, yet it sells for half the price. Shuns classics require no special care, unless you wish to maintain the faux damascus finish, and chincy decal (which will wear off eventually no matter what).

VG-10 is usually not easy for a beginner to sharpen, and anyway so comes the obvious question, how will you keep your new knife sharp?


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## sgsvirgil (Mar 1, 2017)

First off, welcome to CT. 

Secondly, take some time and peruse the cooking knife forum. You will find a lot of very good information from some very knowledgeable people about a wide variety of knives. You should understand that choosing a knife is a very personal choice and what may be good for one person is typically not going to be good for another person. However, IMO, the knife brands you have selected are perfectly fine for any beginner.

When choosing a specific knife, you should decide what the knife will be used for. A chef's knife is a good all around work horse and will serve you well in a variety of ways from prepping veggies/fruit to cutting meat and proteins to filleting some fish. You should research what type of blade and bevels suit your needs i.e. a thin blade or a "v" bevel vs. a "hollow grind" etc. Here is a good website that will explain to you the differences and what the different bevels can be used for.

https://knife-depot.com/pages/a-guide-to-knife-grinds

If your knife skills are not well developed, I would strongly encourage you to take some time and develop those skills before you move up to one of these knives. Some of them are literally as sharp as scalpels and can slice your flesh to the bone before you even know what happened. There are many good resources on the web that can help you develop good knife skills that will minimize any risk of injury.

If you have any specific questions, please don't be shy. 

Good luck!


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

...


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## Ravekage (Oct 12, 2018)

rick alan said:


> First thing, shun classic is not a Japanese knife, it is essentially a German Knife using Japanese steel. It has no exalted history, and its "quality" is questionable.
> 
> Whereas F+F is pretty good on Shun, blade quality is very mediocre. As example, a Tojiro DP is a better cutter in that it has a better profile and grind, also in VG-10 and with an HT no worse than you'll find with Shun, yet it sells for half the price. Shuns classics require no special care, unless you wish to maintain the faux damascus finish, and chincy decal (which will wear off eventually no matter what).
> 
> VG-10 is usually not easy for a beginner to sharpen, and anyway so comes the obvious question, how will you keep your new knife sharp?


Rick,

Thank you very much for your reply and for the information. I had no idea that was the case. It seems I formed an erroneous opinion of the Shun knife based on the things I read online.

To answer your question, I would like to learn how to sharpen the knife myself.


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## Ravekage (Oct 12, 2018)

sgsvirgil said:


> First off, welcome to CT.
> 
> Secondly, take some time and peruse the cooking knife forum. You will find a lot of very good information from some very knowledgeable people about a wide variety of knives. You should understand that choosing a knife is a very personal choice and what may be good for one person is typically not going to be good for another person. However, IMO, the knife brands you have selected are perfectly fine for any beginner.
> 
> ...


sgsvirgil,

Thanks for the warm welcome!

I have spent a good amount of time looking at various threads and I do understand that buying a knife if a very personal choice. Which is why my question really wasn't about whether or not the Shun knife is the best. What I am concerned about is not getting my money's worth. I don't want to pay for something that is overpriced.

I plan on using the knife for everything, so I definitely want to get a Chef's knife. I've read that the Shun classic 8" can be used as one, but on some forums I have read that it doesn't really work that well as a chef's knife. At least not as well as other French or German knives. Is that true?

Again, thank you very much for your reply.


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## Ravekage (Oct 12, 2018)

sgsvirgil said:


> First off, welcome to CT.
> 
> Secondly, take some time and peruse the cooking knife forum. You will find a lot of very good information from some very knowledgeable people about a wide variety of knives. You should understand that choosing a knife is a very personal choice and what may be good for one person is typically not going to be good for another person. However, IMO, the knife brands you have selected are perfectly fine for any beginner.
> 
> ...


sgsvirgil,

Thanks for the warm welcome!

I have spent a good amount of time looking at various threads and I do understand that buying a knife if a very personal choice. Which is why my question really wasn't about whether or not the Shun knife is the best. What I am concerned about is not getting my money's worth. I don't want to pay for something that is overpriced.

I plan on using the knife for everything, so I definitely want to get a Chef's knife. I've read that the Shun classic 8" can be used as one, but on some forums I have read that it doesn't really work that well as a chef's knife. At least not as well as other French or German knives. Is that true?

Again, thank you very much for your reply.


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## Ravekage (Oct 12, 2018)

brianshaw said:


> ...


Thanks for the interesting read. I'll keep that in mind as I continue to search for a knife.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

How well a knife works for you is based a lot on what knife profile you prefer and how it matches your personal style. The Shun Classic is a German profile. I’m not alone in finding it an acceptable knife. In fact, right now my go-to knives For home cooking are 8-inch Shun Classic and Premiere. I also use chef knives with French and Japanese profiles. They work just fine too. Personally... I don’t find any chef knife profile to be so much more superior than another that I’d get into a religious war about it. VG-10, as has been mentioned, isn’t the easiest to sharpen but it’s not impossible either. Good luck with finding the knife (or knives) of your dreams. Welcome to ChefTalk!


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## Ravekage (Oct 12, 2018)

brianshaw said:


> How well a knife works for you is based a lot on what knife profile you prefer and how it matches your personal style. The Shun Classic is a German profile. I'm not alone in finding it an acceptable knife. I also use chef knives with French and Japanese profiles. They work just fine too. Personally... I don't find any chef knife profile to be so much more superior than another that I'd get into a religious war about it. VG-10, as has been mentioned, isn't the easiest to sharpen but it's not impossible either. Good luck with finding the knife (or knives) of your dreams.


I think that is where I'm having trouble deciding. This is the first time I've seriously considered buying a "good" knife rather than using whatever is lying around. As such, I have no idea what knife will match my personal style since I am not very sure what my style is. All I know is that I want an elegant and versatile knife that I can use for almost everything; though I know quite well that is not very helpful when deciding on what knife to buy. Thanks! Hopefully I can find the right one. Out of curiosity, what knife did you first start with?


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

... so what kind of cooking do you anticipate using your knife for?


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Ravekage said:


> I think that is where I'm having trouble deciding. This is the first time I've seriously considered buying a "good" knife rather than using whatever is lying around. As such, I have no idea what knife will match my personal style since I am not very sure what my style is. All I know is that I want an elegant and versatile knife that I can use for almost everything; though I know quite well that is not very helpful when deciding on what knife to buy. Thanks! Hopefully I can find the right one. Out of curiosity, what knife did you first start with?


I first started with Henckels FourStar, way back when, at the suggestion of Chef Wolfgang Puck. Google Ma Maison if you want to know how long ago. . They still serve me well today. They are tough knives but don't get as sharp as knives with harder Japanese steels. The harder steels are definitely capable of a finer edge but also more susceptible to edge damage... sometimes even in the course of fairly normal food preparation. So I still use them (the Henckels) for hard squash or breaking down chickens and the like. Since then I've accumulated a bunch of knives in a variety of form factors and steels.


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## Ravekage (Oct 12, 2018)

brianshaw said:


> I first started with Henckels FourStar, way back when, at the suggestion of Chef Wolfgang Puck. Google Ma Maison if you want to know how long ago. . They still serve me well today. They are tough knives but don't get as sharp as knives with harder Japanese steels. The harder steels are definitely capable of a finer edge but also more susceptible to edge damage... sometimes even in the course of fairly normal food preparation. So I still use them (the Henckels) for hard squash or breaking down chickens and the like. Since then I've accumulated a bunch of knives in a variety of form factors and steels.


Currently I am really interested in Japanese cuisine, and on a daily basis I cook Colombian dishes or come up with something from the things that I have in my fridge. I'm a big meat eater, so I'll definitely be using a lot of meat, but I also enjoy a variety of vegetables and I am hoping to expand my knowledge of greens more.

That is what I have read, It'll be terrible if I buy a beautiful knife only to damage the edge with my ignorance. Though at the same time, I'll never learn if I don't try to use them. I've heard lot's of good things about Henckels, especially seeing as how they are the gifts presented to the Hell's Kitchen chefs, hahaha.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

It's been brought up before but I guess it could use reiteration. The big-bellied German profile did not even exist till the mid 20th centeury, and it was a marketing innovation, like the full bolster, and definitely not a performance feature. The full bolster was actually a blob of metal that was part of the manufacturing process, and that got removed in the finish grinding. Some French marketing dude got the brilliant idea that the feature looked cool, gave the "appearance" of quality, and it was also cheaper to leave that pita of a blob on, so the idea quickly caught on. The Germans eventually figured the big full belly profile made full-bolster knives easier for none pros (those without a big grinding wheel to trim back the bolster) to sharpen without developing a concave edge profile due to the bolster getting in the way. It also made it possible to rock to high angles, which was necessitated by making knives thicker and heavier, which actually was cheaper as it reduced warpage problems. The heavier knives were more difficult to lift completely off the board. Edges subsequently also became thicker, as it was more expensive to remove all that metal. Ahhh, the great mysteries behind marketing. Bottom line, good knife and good technique wants neither full bolster or big belly.

That piece of history done, Ravekage, what's your budget for a knife and starter stone(s)?


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## Ravekage (Oct 12, 2018)

rick alan said:


> It's been brought up before but I guess it could use reiteration. The big-bellied German profile did not even exist till the mid 20th centeury, and it was a marketing innovation, like the full bolster, and definitely not a performance feature. The full bolster was actually a blob of metal that was part of the manufacturing process, and that got removed in the finish grinding. Some French marketing dude got the brilliant idea that the feature looked cool, gave the "appearance" of quality, and it was also cheaper to leave that pita of a blob on, so the idea quickly caught on. The Germans eventually figured the big full belly profile made full-bolster knives easier for none pros (those without a big grinding wheel to trim back the bolster) to sharpen without developing a concave edge profile due to the bolster getting in the way. It also made it possible to rock to high angles, which was necessitated by making knives thicker and heavier, which actually was cheaper as it reduced warpage problems. The heavier knives were more difficult to lift completely off the board. Edges subsequently also became thicker, as it was more expensive to remove all that metal. Ahhh, the great mysteries behind marketing. Bottom line, good knife and good technique wants neither full bolster or big belly.
> 
> That piece of history done, Ravekage, what's your budget for a knife and starter stone(s)?


That was absolutely fascinating!! Thank you very much for sharing that piece of history with me! Who knew that my journey to find a good knife would have led me to learn so much about steel and knife making. What a trip!

I don't want to pay more than $200 for the chef's knife and honestly, I haven't yet looked at prices for starter stones, but I don't want to pay a fortune for them.


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## sgsvirgil (Mar 1, 2017)

Ravekage said:


> sgsvirgil,
> 
> Thanks for the warm welcome!
> 
> ...


Fundamentally speaking, if you choose a knife from a reputable manufacturer, chances are good that you will get your money's worth. Shun, Wusthoff, Henckels, Messermeister etc. are all reasonably good in quality and will do nicely as any beginner's first "real" knife. My point is until you get some mileage under your belt, you don't have to spend a fortune on a knife.

Eventually, you will outgrow your first knife and move on to something more aligned to your style. By then, you will have more of an idea of what your preferences are.

By the way, there are many videos on youtube that will teach you anything you want to know about knives, including how to use sharpening stones. 

Good luck.


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## Ravekage (Oct 12, 2018)

sgsvirgil said:


> Fundamentally speaking, if you choose a knife from a reputable manufacturer, chances are good that you will get your money's worth. Shun, Wusthoff, Henckels, Messermeister etc. are all reasonably good in quality and will do nicely as any beginner's first "real" knife. My point is until you get some mileage under your belt, you don't have to spend a fortune on a knife.
> 
> Eventually, you will outgrow your first knife and move on to something more aligned to your style. By then, you will have more of an idea of what your preferences are.
> 
> ...


sgsvirgil,

I am actually very happy to hear that. Knowing that I can't really go wrong with buying a knife from a reputable manufacturer makes choosing a knife a whole lot easier. I'm not planning on spending a fortune since this will be my first time, and as you mentioned, I will outgrow it one day when I have a better feel for my personal style, so I think I can just go ahead and buy whatever catches my eye. Hopefully no matter what I decide to go with, it will allow me to learn more about knife sharpening and maintenance so that I can be fully prepared for the next one.

Thank you so much for the help!!


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## Niftynorm (Oct 13, 2018)

One thing that is important is how the knife feels in your hand. If possible go to a store where you can heft the different knives and learn what the handles feel like. I understand that this isn't always possible but it will give you a good starting point. Also think about taking a basic knife skills class through a local kitchen store or adult ed. It will give you a good starting point on handling and safety.


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## sgsvirgil (Mar 1, 2017)

Ravekage said:


> sgsvirgil,
> 
> I am actually very happy to hear that. Knowing that I can't really go wrong with buying a knife from a reputable manufacturer makes choosing a knife a whole lot easier. I'm not planning on spending a fortune since this will be my first time, and as you mentioned, I will outgrow it one day when I have a better feel for my personal style, so I think I can just go ahead and buy whatever catches my eye. Hopefully no matter what I decide to go with, it will allow me to learn more about knife sharpening and maintenance so that I can be fully prepared for the next one.
> 
> Thank you so much for the help!!


You're welcome. 

Let us know what you decide.

Cheers!


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Well I don't quite agree with sgsvrigil's 2nd to last statement. Compared to what is available elsewhere, shun wusty and henckles do not present a good dollar value in general, by a long shot. In fact the only knives from those that are competitive with front runners in their price range, that I have heard of, are: the very basic wusty Pro which is comparable to the Vic Fibrox; and the shun blue series 7" kiritsuki when it is on sale for $70 (which is a good deal if you can catch it). The Zwilling-Henkles/Miyabi 5000 mcd 67 is a good buy, but that is a $350-400 knife.

How a knife feels in hand is greatly overrated, as with good technique just about any acceptable handle/blade combination will do, especially for the home cook.

As far as damaging a blade with poor technique, the use of excessive force along with inadvertent twisting of the blade when making board contact are the 2 things to watch out for. Simply master control of these 2 and you will have nothing much further to worry about. Dull knives make control of force and finish much more difficult, which is why it is often said that dull knives are more dangerous than sharp ones.

Some suggestions:

At the low end the MAC Chef series HB-85 is a very good choice. Good cutter and a tough knife that doesn't require much babying

Next up the Geshin Stainless series, great cutter. Tough, but of course thin at the edge.
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...ecials/products/gesshin-stainless-210mm-gyuto

At the top of your budget I'd pick the Geshin Gonbei hammered. Great edge retention as well as cutting ability. Lots of bling.
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/products/gonbei-210mm-hammered-damascus-wa-gyuto.


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## Ravekage (Oct 12, 2018)

Niftynorm said:


> One thing that is important is how the knife feels in your hand. If possible go to a store where you can heft the different knives and learn what the handles feel like. I understand that this isn't always possible but it will give you a good starting point. Also think about taking a basic knife skills class through a local kitchen store or adult ed. It will give you a good starting point on handling and safety.


Niftynorm,

That was an excellent suggestion. I was able to get my hands on three different knives and it was astonishing to feel just how different each one felt. There was one that as soon as I picked it up, I didn't like it because of how that handle felt. Thank you for recommending to do that! I'll definitely look into taking a basic knife skill course.


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## Ravekage (Oct 12, 2018)

sgsvirgil said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> Let us know what you decide.
> 
> Cheers!


sgsvirgil,

I was able to try out a Shun, a Global and a Miyabi knife today. The Miyabi was instantly out since I did not care very much for how the handle felt and the Global, though it felt sharper than the Shun, was too light for my taste. Currently planning on buying a Shun, but I'll hold off a bit until I can test the knives that rick recommended. ​


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## Ravekage (Oct 12, 2018)

rick alan said:


> Well I don't quite agree with sgsvrigil's 2nd to last statement. Compared to what is available elsewhere, shun wusty and henckles do not present a good dollar value in general, by a long shot. In fact the only knives from those that are competitive with front runners in their price range, that I have heard of, are: the very basic wusty Pro which is comparable to the Vic Fibrox; and the shun blue series 7" kiritsuki when it is on sale for $70 (which is a good deal if you can catch it). The Zwilling-Henkles/Miyabi 5000 mcd 67 is a good buy, but that is a $350-400 knife.
> 
> How a knife feels in hand is greatly overrated, as with good technique just about any acceptable handle/blade combination will do, especially for the home cook.
> 
> ...


Rick,

Once again, thank you very much for the information.

I'll make sure to be careful not to use excessive force and to avoid twisting of the blade when making board contact.

I am going to search to see if I can get my hands on the knives that you recommend before I make my decision.

I really appreciate your thoughts and insights on this matter.


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## sgsvirgil (Mar 1, 2017)

@rick alan You should change your "exp" rating from "Home Cook" to "Super Mario."


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## Niftynorm (Oct 13, 2018)

Ravecage as you can see in this short thread there are as many varying opinions on the subject of knives as there are styles and manufacturers. Usually for beginning cooks I recommend starting with a couple of quality but inexpensive stamped knives like Victorinox Fibrox or Dexter/Russells as they are easy to sharpen and handle. Once you try a forged blade you will feel there is a difference and you can learn about the different styles of blades such as the German style vs the French and Japanese style blades. I personally can't see spending several hundred dollars on a knife when you are just learning. This is just my opinion from over 40 years of cooking. There is a lot more to learn about including how to sharpen, blade material, blade geometry, etc.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

sgsvirgil said:


> @rick alan You should change your "exp" rating from "Home Cook" to "Super Mario."


Ahahaha, it's just the engineering geek in me, which includes original research in bio-mechanics and bio-motor control, along with applications to a wide range of activities, all of which I personally engaged in for the research. And being mildy autistic, I just can't help myself at times. ;-)~


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## Ravekage (Oct 12, 2018)

Niftynorm said:


> Ravecage as you can see in this short thread there are as many varying opinions on the subject of knives as there are styles and manufacturers. Usually for beginning cooks I recommend starting with a couple of quality but inexpensive stamped knives like Victorinox Fibrox or Dexter/Russells as they are easy to sharpen and handle. Once you try a forged blade you will feel there is a difference and you can learn about the different styles of blades such as the German style vs the French and Japanese style blades. I personally can't see spending several hundred dollars on a knife when you are just learning. This is just my opinion from over 40 years of cooking. There is a lot more to learn about including how to sharpen, blade material, blade geometry, etc.


Niftynorm,

When I started this thread, I fully knew that I would be met with a variety of opinions and point of views. I am really grateful for all of the information that has been shared with me and it truly has helped to have a better idea of what I want to buy. I understand that a pricy knife may be wasted on someone who does not have a lot of cooking experience, but to be honest, I feel as if I will not learn if I don't start working with one. Just thinking that I want to buy a good knife has taught me so much!! It was mind-blowing, at least to me, just how complex knife buying can be. I am really motivated to keep learning more and that is why I want to start with a forged blade. So that I can continue on this amazing journey.

Thank you very much for your insight.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

If you're going low budget, you're going low budget and that's fine.

There are really good handmade japanese knives between $100-150. Not 'several hundred' dollars. Why spend more money on wusthof, henckels, or shun that don't perform as well?


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## sgsvirgil (Mar 1, 2017)

rick alan said:


> Ahahaha, it's just the engineering geek in me, which includes original research in bio-mechanics and bio-motor control, along with applications to a wide range of activities, all of which I personally engaged in for the research. And being mildy autistic, I just can't help myself at times. ;-)~


So, you are a rocket scientist! lol!


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## Ravekage (Oct 12, 2018)

millionsknives said:


> If you're going low budget, you're going low budget and that's fine.
> 
> There are really good handmade japanese knives between $100-150. Not 'several hundred' dollars. Why spend more money on wusthof, henckels, or shun that don't perform as well?


Millionsknives,

Out of curiosity, what are the handmade Japanese knives that you mentioned? I'd like to look into them.

Also, the Shun Classic 8" Chef Knife is currently priced at $145.00. Which is why I am seriously considering buying it. Though if you have other knives that you recommend, please let me know.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

I guess this one sold out since the last time i recommended it..
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...als/products/gesshin-stainless-210mm-wa-gyuto

These are in stock:
http://www.knivesandstones.com/ginsan/
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/kaeru-kasumi-stainless-gyuto-210mm/

I would take any of these over shun


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## Ravekage (Oct 12, 2018)

millionsknives said:


> I guess this one sold out since the last time i recommended it..
> https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...als/products/gesshin-stainless-210mm-wa-gyuto
> 
> These are in stock:
> ...


Millionsknives,

Thank you very much for the links. I am really impressed by how beautiful the knives look.

I have a couple of questions. I hope you don't mind.

You originally said that the Japanese knives you'd recommend are handmade, but the Tanaka Ginsan Nashiji Gyuto 210mm - Lite, which is at the price range that I am looking at, says that it is a factory blade. Was that just my misunderstanding?

As for the Kaeru Kasumi Stainless Gyuto 210mm, it is actually more expensive than the Shun Classic Chef Knife 8" and I would like to know, based on your experience using these knives, what makes you more inclined to the former than to the latter.

Thanks again!


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Wow! All the Tanakas are back in stock! Blue 2, Ginsan and VG-10 (Tanakas VG-10 has great heat treat, is easier to sharpen than most other VG-10).


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

sgsvirgil said:


> So, you are a rocket scientist! lol!


I prefer to more modestly refer to myself as "The Master of Relaxation, Magician of Motion and Originator of the Scientific Study of Detrimental Antagonist Input and Dynamic Controlled Resistance Training, the only Systematic and Definite Means by which you may Acquire the Ability to Consistently Produce a Controlled and Harmonious Response to a Wide Variety of Sport/Physical Task Specific Stimuli." Never made me a penny, but I was allowed to present at the American Sports Medicine Institute back in the mid '90's, after which a few recognized names did a mightily lame job of plagiarizing me. I'll never forget Lauren Seagrave's reaction when I confronted him, he had to practically pick his face up off the floor.


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## Ravekage (Oct 12, 2018)

rick alan said:


> Wow! All the Tanakas are back in stock! Blue 2, Ginsan and VG-10 (Tanakas VG-10 has great heat treat, is easier to sharpen than most other VG-10).


Rick,

I am really intrigued by the Tanaka knives. Have you personally owned one? If so, how do they feel? Would they be a good fit for a beginner?


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Never used a Tanaka myself, but they get nothing but good reviews, as with the knives I mentioned from JKI. All of these knives have good profiles and grinds, good steel and are thin behind the edge. My goto knife is very thin and has very brittle steel, it suites the kind of prep I do a majority of, but is not a more all around knife as I think you should be considering.

These knives are relatively light, but combined with the flatter profiles, better steel and thin edges they maximize efficiency with proper technique and are a joy to use.


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## Ravekage (Oct 12, 2018)

rick alan said:


> Never used a Tanaka myself, but they get nothing but good reviews, as with the knives I mentioned from JKI. All of these knives have good profiles and grinds, good steel and are thin behind the edge. My goto knife is very thin and has very brittle steel, it suites the kind of prep I do a majority of, but is not a more all around knife as I think you should be considering.
> 
> These knives are relatively light, but combined with the flatter profiles, better steel and thin edges they maximize efficiency with proper technique and are a joy to use.


Rick,

Unfortunately, the knives from JKI are sold out. Since the Tanaka knives are in stock, I am seriously considering buying one. I know this next question has to do a lot with personal taste, but I want to ask just in case. Are Tanaka knives a better choice over Shun's? The price difference between those two brands is not large enough for me to make a decision just based on cost. Currently, the Shun Classic is what I am leaning towards, but after seeing the Tanaka lineup, I wouldn't mind switching sides if you think it is worth it.

Sorry for all the questions Rick and I hope you know I really appreciate your patience and your help.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

I've already made it clear how I feel about Shun's dollar value. Millionsknives has used just about every knife that is out there (hence the millions), look at his comment about Shun again and you should have your answer.


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## Ravekage (Oct 12, 2018)

rick alan said:


> I've already made it clear how I feel about Shun's dollar value. Millionsknives has used just about every knife that is out there (hence the millions), look at his comment about Shun again and you should have your answer.


Rick,

I apologize for making you repeat yourself. I simply just wanted to confirm with another source concerning the quality of the Tanaka knives since they had not been mentioned until Millionsknives kindly recommended them.


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## Ravekage (Oct 12, 2018)

@rick alan; @millionsknives; @sgsvirgil; @Niftynorm; @brianshaw

Everyone,

I'd like to say thank you, once more, for all of the help that you've given me and for all of the valuable knowledge that was shared on this thread. I am really grateful that each of you took the time to answer a question that, I imagine, has been asked countless times.

After careful consideration, I have decided to purchase a Tanaka knife which was recommended by millionsknives.

@millionsknives I apologize for not realizing your expertise in this field. Had I known, I would not have been so cautious of your recommendations, but I am really glad that you stopped by because the Tanaka knives look gorgeous and I am really excited to get my hands on one.

I wish everyone the best and if you are interested, I'll come back to post my impressions. Hope to see you all around.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Haha no worries. To answer your question I think "ex-factory" is just a weird phrase that James uses to differentiate his upgraded knives to the normal ones. The 'Lite' version is pretty much what has always been sold by most vendors. It comes straight from the maker. Tanaka is not a 'brand' or 'company' like Shun or Miyabi. It's the name of the blacksmith.

The knives and stones versions have some after market work like a rounded choil (you can do that yourself with some sandpaper) and maybe upgraded handle? It's just a higher level of fit and finish that costs more, but basically the same knife.


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## Ravekage (Oct 12, 2018)

millionsknives said:


> Haha no worries. To answer your question I think "ex-factory" is just a weird phrase that James uses to differentiate his upgraded knives to the normal ones. The 'Lite' version is pretty much what has always been sold by most vendors. It comes straight from the maker. Tanaka is not a 'brand' or 'company' like Shun or Miyabi. It's the name of the blacksmith.
> 
> The knives and stones versions have some after market work like a rounded choil (you can do that yourself with some sandpaper) and maybe upgraded handle? It's just a higher level of fit and finish that costs more, but basically the same knife.


Millionsknives,

Thank you for clarifying that. It may sound weird, but I am really happy to get the opportunity to buy a knife from a blacksmith and not from a company. That makes my first "real" knife that much more special.

I understand now. I might just splurge a bit and get one with a higher level of fit and finish. Thanks for everything!!


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## mike9 (Jul 13, 2012)

Late to the party I know, but I've been test driving a Kanehide PS60 240mm gyuto I bought used for almost a year now and after a touch up on the stones I can say it's a great performer - holds an edge very well and goes nicely through product. Comes in both Wa and Yo versions.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kapssu24.html

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kapswahagy24.html


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## BenGerodin (Dec 4, 2018)

Ravekage said:


> Millionsknives,
> 
> Thank you for clarifying that. It may sound weird, but I am really happy to get the opportunity to buy a knife from a blacksmith and not from a company. That makes my first "real" knife that much more special.
> 
> I understand now. I might just splurge a bit and get one with a higher level of fit and finish. Thanks for everything!!


@Ravekage how did you like your Tanaka? I'm looking at knife options and think I'm in a similar place to you, and would be interested in your thoughts now a couple of months down the road.


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