# Best pots and pans?



## rfamliy1st

I am looking to buy the very best pot and pan set for my wife. The stores I have visited have sales people who have little or no cooking expierence with good cookware. I thought I would get the best advice here. I have been shown the All-clad and the Calphalon line. How do these compare and are there any other brands that are better? Any beifit to the stainless as compared to the other as we have very hard water here and everything gets spoted. Non-stick or stick?
While I am here what is the best knife brand?

Thanks 
Steve


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## alexia

Unless you are obsessive about everything looking alike, don't buy a set. Different kinds of cooking work best in different kinds of pots. I have some cookware in various materials that work best with certain techniques and/or foods. Another drawback of sets is that most of the pieces are too small. You will wind up buying the larger more expensive pieces anyway and some of the pieces that came with the set may wind up collecting dust.

There have been numerous threads on this board and others (such as Chowhound and eGullet, Bouland's www.alacarte on copper) about the relative merits of the different materials and brands. If you do a search you will come up with more information than you know what to do with.

If you still have specific questions, I'm sure we'll all chime in. Be sure to let us know what sort of cooking techniques you use the most and whether most of your cooking is for 2 or a large family, etc. That way we can be more helpful.


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## mezzaluna

Hi Steve, and welcome to Chef Talk. This is a topic close to my heart, ever since I bought my first All-Clad pan. I have an MC2 brasier and a 10-piece set of Emeril (All-Clad) I got for an irrestible price (just under $200). But I agree with Alexia: do not buy a set unless you see yourself getting good use out of all of the pans. I was hot for a set of MC2-even steeled myself for the credit card bill to come- only to realize I really didn't want it; too many of the pieces weren't right for my kitchen. 

Go to a store and look at the pans. Lift them; handle them. The ergonomocs of the handles, the weight of the pan empty vs. full, whether special utensils are needed, and care considerations should all be part of your decision. Copper, for instance is not for everyone, but may be indespensible for others. Some run away from non-stick pans, others wouldn't dream of doing without them. Will you be the only one using them? Will children also use them?

It's a very personal decision.

By the way, please do stop in at the Welcome Forum to introduce yourself. We're a friendly community and want to welcome you properly.


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## kuan

Well, at the minimum you will need a large dutch oven style pot and a straight side fry pan. Unless you're doing many individual portions for each member of your family you're not going to use that tiny 7" saute pan. Buy a good heavy dutch oven because it can go on the stove, go in the oven, and if the occasion permits, look very good on a picnic table filled with beans. Le Creuset comes to mind.

But then, the best thing is to buy her what SHE wants. 

There's no best brand anything. For knives, Wusthof Trident for me. They don't farm out their production and the factories produce only Wusthof. Like pots and pans, an 8" cooks and paring knife will work 95% of the time.

Kuan


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## alexia

Kuan makes a a good point! What does SHE want? Personallly, I wouldn't want someone else picking out my pots and pans unless I'd given them a very specific list to pick from. Maybe you could go out together to look at everything and let the cook make the final decision, particularly if you both work in the kitchen.


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## nick

I use All-Clad stainless, LeCreuset, and old Griswold cast iron. For knives - Wusthof Classic, though you might want to look at the Gran Prix line - try the feel of each. The steel is the same. (Or for that matter, you might like the feel of a completely different line of knives.)

As others have said - don't get a set. Think of what it is you want to cook and go from there. Also, once you've familiarized yourselves with what you want and need, check out Ebay for good prices if you're going to be buying a lot. Otherwise support your local small shop as you add one piece at a time.


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## kimmie

without a good cast iron pan.

Lodge, one of the country's largest manufacturers of cast-iron cookware, has given us *Lodge Logic*. It has been electrostatically sprayed with vegetable oil and subjected to prolonged exposure to high temperatures.

Lodge Logic can be found locally at many stores that carry traditional cast-iron cookware, including Bed Bath & Beyond, Bloomingdale's, Strosniders Hardware, Sur La Table and Williams-Sonoma stores. Lodge Logic is also available by mail from www.lodgemfg.com


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## suzanne

Kimmie -- sounds like a marketing brochure!  Have you actually used one of the Lodge "pre-seasoned" pieces? They cost twice as much as the regular ones!


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## kimmie

Got a griddle, Suzanne. Well, I'm worth it!


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## suzanne

Ah! Do tell what it's like!!! Inquiring minds want to know.  

I bought a regular 12-inch skillet (I'm cheap) about a week ago (already have a grill pan, which I ADORE!!!!!) but when I got home I discovered I didn't have any Crisco in the house.  So it's waiting until I can get some. And then ... :bounce:


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## kimmie

It's pretty much "stick-less" and easy to clean. What's the Crisco for?


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## suzanne

That's what I use to season cast iron. Yeah, I know there are other veg oils one could use, but that's what I'm used to.

But since that's the ONLY use I make of Crisco, and it eventually starts to look weird in the can, I don't have it in the house sometimes when I need it, like now


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## mudbug

Hello rfamliy1st,

You may find the following thread informative, *Buying Cookware*

For information on knives, check *here*.

If you have further questions after browsing these discussions, feel free to post.


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## culinarian247

What does everyone think of the Demeyere (sp?) line?


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## miller

25 years ago I sold Salad Master Stainless Steel Waterless Cookware and I've owned my set for longer than that. My parents set was purchased in 1967 and is still looking great. Pots and pans are what you have when you have a combination of types. When you get into paying THAT much money, it's called cookware  Stainless Steel pays for itself over the long run if it's good quality. 

I'm into "Slow Food" and try to keep cooked foods to low-temperature cooking and that's something I can successfully do with Waterless Cookware. I consider it the most nutritious cooking method and it creates a vacuum seal and oxidation is practically eliminated.


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## mainah

I'm resurrecting what appears to be a VERY old post!

I remember my parents buying the cookware I am now using back in the early 70s in someone's home in Sheboygan Wisconsin. Volrath I believe is the brand/company name. Every 13 years or so my Mom would order replacement handles since these are a resin of sorts that would grow brittle and brake around the screws that held them on. She passed them to me in the 80's and I later ordered handles as well.

The Stainless Steel, however, is still going strong and I've been using them with my kids and husband cooking with them as well over the last 23 years. The handles are all just about gone now, and the company seems to have sold out to another and I've lost the trail. I'm finally realizing I need to leave them behind, (unless someone out there knows something I don't.) I use cast iron skillets of every size, so buying a set would be silly. My Stainless Steel Small and Large saucepans and my dutch oven, however, are necessary to my kitchen. 

I'm not wealthy, nor do I care to be cheap. What is the best midgrade purchase for my money. I know I'm looking at buying maybe two large saucepans, and two small, (with the medium in my inherited set rarely used.) A Dutch Oven is mandatory as well.


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## brook

For a non-stick pan, I suggest having your wife take a look at Swiss Diamond. It is more non-stick than any non-teflon non-stick pan I've used (better than sitram, for instance). In addition, unlike teflon, you can use any utensil you want on the surface -- that includes metal spoons!


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## teamfat

Earlier this year, or maybe last fall, on a sunday morning I was working on preparing for a dinner party later that day. As I was filling a saucepan with water the handle fell off. It was a fairly old stainless steel set that served us well for years, can't remember the brand. The attachment for the handle was NOT stainless, it had rusted away. The rest of the pieces in the set are still in daily use, I did check the handle attachments.

Anyway, for whatever reason I really needed a 2 quart, covered, oven proof pot for something I was preparing. Ran down to someplace like Shopko or K Mart, since none of the real cooking stores around here are open on sunday. I purchased a 9 piece Farberware set for something like 45 bucks, rather than just getting the one pot I needed for $25.

A few of the Farberware bits are still untouched and unused in the box somewhere in the basement, a few of them actually get fairly regular use. I'm pleasantly surprised that such flimsy stuff has worked longer and better than I expected.

mjb.


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## boar_d_laze

Mainah,

I'm pasting this from Vollrath's website:

Hope this helps. 

OTOH, If you're looking for new high-quality, mid-priced cookware your best bet is to search for sales and seconds of the really good stuff at the big box stores, internet sites like QVC, discount stores, etc. With the condition of the economy, there will be lots of sales as Christmas approaches and passes. Otherwise, there are quite a few fairly high quality, mid-priced cookware lines around like Emerilware and Wolfgang Puck, to name two. But again, wait for the holiday sales. Discounts will likely range from substantial to panicked hysteria.

By the way, Vollrath is still going strong making the best professional cookware. If I were buying stainless, I'd buy their tri-ply Tribute in a heartbeat.

Hope this helps,
BDL


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## chef geoff

What type of pots and pans work well with the new smooth, electric cooktops... not the magnet type? We care about good cooking and preserving our new surface.


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## phatch

You probably ought to avoid uncoated cast iron. It will scratch up your glass. Otherwise, aluminum, disk bottomed or clad ware will all work fine and be good to your glass top.

Do you have any particular preferences for one type over another?


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## thatchairlady

Lodge cast iron may cost more than no-name, made halfway across the world stuff, but I like it.  Have a growing collection of CI... EVERY piece came from a yard sale, thrift store or flea market.  Many were crusty beyond compare, but cleaned up nice.  I stick to Lodge, Wagner, and Griswold and have to SERIOUSLY restrain myself from adding pieces that might produce duplications.  My grandmother always used bacon grease on CI.  If a piece hadda be "washed", it went back on stove burner until HOT HOT, then a dab of BG wiped around with paper towel.


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## chrislehrer

Chef Geoff said:


> What type of pots and pans work well with the new smooth, electric cooktops... not the magnet type? We care about good cooking and preserving our new surface.


Much as I hate to say it, Geoff, the answer is "nothing much." These surfaces are pretty terrible. Still, the #1 priority must be solidity: if the bottom of a pan warps even slightly, it will only make point contacts with the surface and you will have enormous hot-spot problems.

For this reason, cast iron is terrific if it's very flat to begin with. On the other hand, as already noted, it will scratch your surface.

I have had good luck with Matfer sauce pans and carbon skillets, but one of my skillets did warp very slightly -- and now it basically just doesn't work on the surface except for super-high heat.

All-Clad seems to work pretty well -- no warping that I've seen, except for the big saute pan.

What little Calphalon I have doesn't seem to warp, although I hate it for most things. Admittedly the one piece I use much is a big stock pot, so that may not be much of an indicator.

My advice is either to go very strong and stop worrying about the surface, or else go cheap and plan to throw pans away with some regularity. Or, better yet, get a new surface. I can't say enough bad things about mine. (I hate the whole stove, actually, a pretty high-end JennAir that came with the apartment, but the surface problems seem to be a function of the style of range rather than the basically awful quality of the stove.)

Good luck!


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## angela olver

I had read online that when you take a pan from the heat to the sink it warps no matter how good the pan is. I always wait for the pan to cool before I wash or rinse off. I have a friend who bought a new glass top stove for the looks. She was told to buy a pan with the induction bottom on it for a better connection because they sit flatter against the stove. She likes it so far and she went to Macys to look and found a Circulon brand in nonstick, a anolon steel brand, but that one is online only. They had a sample in the store weird for a online purchase and a Emerilware brand, made by all clad.


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## chefedb

Even a 1 inch grill will warp if hot and placed in water. You are correct let it cool first. Inductions are a must on an induction stove, but I would not say they are flatter then other quality pans. I have circulon for my wife, as my commercial pans are to heavy for her. Macy's overprices  there pans. Try Home goods or Bed Bath Beyond , better prices same thing. Emiril ? you are paying for name.


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## sumar shahin

It is soo true about buying sets, some pieces do end up collecting dust.


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## sumar shahin

I agree, but I like calphalon for most cooking


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## valentin

I guess it depends on your setup really.

In the restaurant we use high power induction stoves, and the cheapest pans we could find, a combination of Ikea pans and some other low-grade pans. They heat up really quick, and are made of thin steel, this means that their ability to retain heat, and continue cooking off the heat is also extremely poor. But that's fine - When we need to fry stuff during service, they're constantly on a high heat, and things are getting thrown on and off, with oil going on the pan every now and then - No need for a big expensive pan.

At home, different story - I have an old electric stove, and I use Demeyere pots & pans - They're brilliant - just maybe not for the stove that I have. I have trouble keeping them at a good temperature while frying. They tend to go just a tad to cold or hot. This is obviously not the pans fault, but more the stove. That being said, I might be better off using cheaper, thinner pans.

That being said, they are nearly indestructible. They've hardly warped (They are not perfectly flat, nor do they heat completely even) - But that is as much down to the stove as it is the pan - But it's not as good as when I bought them. They haven't been treated kindly though, I often throw them under running water when I'm done using them, and I reckon I'm much, much tougher on them then your regular home cook would be. They are really expensive though, and I haven't regretted buying them one bit, I'm actually looking to buy some more. But keep in mind that they may not be the best choice for you and your kitchen.

Basically, cheap kitchen = cheap pans, expensive kitchen = expensive pans.

If you have a gas stove, or a step less induction stove, you're able to take advantage of the better, more expensive pans. However a cheap ceramic or a regular electric stove, might not be powerful or flexible enough for you to get the most out of those pans. Take that into consideration when choosing cookware.


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## la truffiere

Can you beat Le Creuset?


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## ishbel

Whilst I still use my Le Creuset casseroles, ridged grill pans and omelette and pancake pans, I sadly had to give away my large collection of LC saucepans to my daughte.   They were far too heavy for me to move around easily when filled, as my wrists and elbows have become increasingly arthritic as I age.    She received them gratefully!


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## phatch

Le Creuset makes good cookware, certainly. 

I think there are plenty of other manufacturers who perform as well for less money. Might not look as pretty doing it though.


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## bruno33

my wife is looking to get new pots and pan's. I understand that you have to use different makes but who are the god ones and the not so god ones.  my wife is looking to buy from Calphalon is that a good brand?


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## boar_d_laze

Calphalon is a _very good brand_; but that only takes you so far. Whether a given set is right for you depends on the particular line, and whether or not that type will suit.

What, specifically, interests your wife?

BDL


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## meezenplaz

I use Belgique, stainless copperclad. I love em. I think my set came from Macy's'.

I looked at a lot of sets first, even Wolfgang Pucks, etc. But the first thing I look for is a

"folded edge" . If it's a single edge (like Puck's) Ive found that edge to get dinged up and

bent far too easily. My folded Belgique pans are tough.  And pretty. The only down side

is that the handles are a little skinny, especially on the large saute pans/skillets.


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## thatchairlady

Have to tout Calphalon... not terribly expensive by GREAT return/replace policy!  Bought a basic set SEVERAL years ago as a gift to self... stock pot (not very large), 2 sauce pans with lids, 2 skillets, and a straight sided saute with lids... in non-stick.  I was good to them... NO metal tools or VERY careful when used.  After MANY years, NO major scratches or any peeling of non-stick surface, but non-stick just wasn't so non-stick any more.

Had heard/read about their return policy so checked it out.  Form to fill out at their site... description of what you were returning and why.  NO receipts required.  Could print out a shipping lable tho DID have to pay to have 3 favorite pieces sent back.  A week or so later, got 2 BRAND new replacement items.


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## flyfishingmt

I can tell you this. My wife and I both love to cook. we bought a set of All-Clad 12 years ago and couldn't be happier. As far as non-stick goes I learned over the years that the best non-stick fry pans we bought at Sams Club in the commercial kitchen area and you get 2 size pans for I think under $20.00. They have lasted the best of all and cook great. As well they are easy to clean.

My knife preference is Shun, they are expensive you you really only need 3 sizes. They are sharp as hell so be carefull


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## niccolo donzell

I agree with the other comments -- individual pieces are better. I started with Calphalon, but have slowly replaced them all with All Clad. Ditto with Le Crueset moving to Staub. Le Crueset works fine, but the interior tends to stain. Staub has a black interior that doesn't.


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## rsritchey

I'm suprised that nobody has mentioned DeBuyer carbon steel.  I have a "Mineral B" skillet and a "Carbone" crepe pan, and I love them both.  Like cast iron, they do require seasoning, but after very little use they're both become practically non-stick.  They're also a screaming value.  I think the crepe pan cost me $25.  I'm not sure of the forum rules about vendors, so I won't say where I got them, but if you'd like to know PM me.  BTW, I can't really tell a functional difference between the Mineral B and the Carbone.  I'd choose whichever was cheaper in the size you want.

Regards,

Russ


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## kokopuffs

rsritchey said:


> I'm suprised that nobody has mentioned DeBuyer carbon steel. I have a "Mineral B" skillet and a "Carbone" crepe pan, and I love them both. Like cast iron, they do require seasoning, but after very little use they're both become practically non-stick. They're also a screaming value. I think the crepe pan cost me $25. I'm not sure of the forum rules about vendors, so I won't say where I got them, but if you'd like to know PM me. BTW, I can't really tell a functional difference between the Mineral B and the Carbone. I'd choose whichever was cheaper in the size you want.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Russ


I've had my DeBuyers (std carbon steel pans) for a couple of years and love them, they perform better than any cast iron jobs I've used.


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## brianshaw

kokopuffs said:


> I've had my DeBuyers (std carbon steel pans) for a couple of years and love them, they perform better than any cast iron jobs I've used.


In terms of skillets and crepe pans... ditto. For all else, All-clad is by far the best of the various pot/pan mkes that I use.


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## salparadise

I have three DeBuyer Carbone frying pans and they are great. I also have a bunch of Vollrath Tribute and they're great as well. Together they make a kit that's hard to beat in performance or price. I'm sure All Clad quality stuff, but man is it pricy. If the the name is important and you have deep pockets, then perhaps AC is the ticket. I priced out the pieces I have in the AC, on sale, and it came to over $2k. I spent around one-third that amount and couldn't be happier.


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## kokopuffs

As far as braziers are concerned, are Browne-Halco, Vollrath Tribute and Admiral Craft pretty much the same quality?  I'm looking for a brazier with a capacity of around 8-10 QTS.


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## salparadise

My reservation with Vollrath Tribute is that the lids are not heavy or tight fitting enough for proper braising. I have no first hand experience with the Browne-Halco or Admiral Craft brasiers, but I see that they are both disc bottom, and I definitely prefer fully clad triply. 8-10 quarts is big so not sure what's available in enameled cast iron, which would be my preference. Cast iron works almost like a pressure cooker with the tight, heavy lids and that is ideal. I'd suggest checking to see what Staub and Le Crueset offer in the larger sizes. It's going to be a lot more expensive than triply though. Perhaps Tribute with some other lid, or weight the lid.


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## kokopuffs

What is your experience with the stuff that you use, salparadise?????  Myself, I'm about ready to order from Dehillerin because they stock the sizes that I need and are staffed with personnel who can answer my every question.  To now I've been totally dissatisfied with the customer service here in the U.S. as they lack real chefs on staff, at least those vendors that I've contacted.


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## salparadise

kokopuffs said:


> What is your experience with the stuff that you use, salparadise????? Myself, I'm about ready to order from Dehillerin because they stock the sizes that I need and are staffed with personnel who can answer my every question. To now I've been totally dissatisfied with the customer service here in the U.S. as they lack real chefs on staff, at least those vendors that I've contacted.


Kokopuffs, what I use are DeBuyer Carbone carbon steel frying pans, Vollrath Tribute sauce pans, stock pots and sauté pan, and a Tramontina 6.5 quart enameled cast iron dutch oven. The DeBuyer is top quality, cooks like a dream. I fried three eggs (w/ butter) in my large DeBuyer this morning and it's just perfect-- not a hint of sticking, even heat, etc. It sears and grills meat, pan seared salmon fillets to perfection- stovetop to oven when needed. Can't say enough good things about these pans (3 sizes). The Vollrath Tribute is excellent as well, and my only complaint is that the lids are not custom fitted, but that's minor. The 6 quart sauté pan (12") gets a tremendous amount of use, highly versatile and useful. The dutch oven is what I mostly use for braising and it performs without complaint, however, the enamel is discolored now which is a minor annoyance. But I paid $39 for it rather than $150 or whatever Le Creuset costs in that size. If I was assured that the interior of the expensive brands would not discolor I'd probably spring for one. I might also go up one size to 8 or 9 quart since it would have more bottom surface for browning, and I could make larger batches of soups, but since I have 8 and 16 quart Tribute stock pots it's not imperative. All in all, I have a setup that performs extremely well, easy to maintain, and I don't have a ton of bucks in it either. If money were no object I might like to try copper, but having to polish it, using extreme care when cooking, and still get the interiors refinished periodically just seems like a lot when the clad stainless works so well for a fraction of the expense. I would like to have one of the low profile brasiers by Staub or Le Creuset- can anyone comment on the resistance to staining on the interior of those?


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## kokopuffs

salparadise said:


> Kokopuffs, what I use are DeBuyer Carbone carbon steel frying pans, Vollrath Tribute sauce pans, stock pots and sauté pan, and a Tramontina 6.5 quart enameled cast iron dutch oven. ...
> 
> If money were no object I might like to try copper, but having to polish it, using extreme care when cooking, and still get the interiors refinished periodically just seems like a lot when the clad stainless works so well for a fraction of the expense.


Sal: As to copper cleaning, I never bother to polish the copper on my Mauviel 3 qt braiser. As a matter of fact, after having accidentally spilled some beet juice (from a can of sliced beets) onto the copper, it seemed to clean and 'self-polish' the metal brilliantly and I mean brilliantly. The three quart size is, however, a bit undersized and I wished I had selected either the 6 or 9 qt model instead - especially way back in 2002 when the dollar was worth a lot more.

I really love my deBuyer CS fry pans.


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## kokopuffs

Money is a little tight and I'm considering the dutch ovens in enamel made by Lodge and Tramontina.  Any opinions there??  What about the Lodge dutch oven made in plain cast iron.


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## phatch

The enamel Lodge and Tramontina are good value. For home use, enamel is the way to go IMO. A dutch oven is all about wet cooking. While you can do that in the plain cast iron, they are reactive metals for wines, fruits and tomato cooking. Not ideal. You'll be spending time re-seasoning them and dealing with off flavors and colors. Plain cast iron is good for hard use environments like rafting, camping and that sort of thing where enamel wouldn't survive.

In all seriousness, tramontina makes a stainless dutch oven I would pick for home use over an enameled one. No cracking, crazing, chips and lighter as well. The main down side is it's only 5 quarts. It would be quite at home on a camp stove as well.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Tramontin...Steel-TriPly-Clad-Covered-Dutch-Oven/11072503

I use a disk bottomed stainless Tramontina Sauteuse a lot for similar braising dishes.


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## kokopuffs

Thanks but I'm really needing something around 7 QTS give or take.


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## salparadise

Tramontina has a 7 quart oval enameled that sells for $80 (walmart). Comparable Staub or Le Crueset is nearly 4X that price. I think you'd probably be pleased with it. I have a 6.5 round Tramontina and it's great except for the enamel staining some. They've replaced the style I have with a new one and I don't know if the enamel has changed or not. I agree with phatch regarding the plain cast iron. It really serves a different purpose and not as versatile. I'd definitely grab one at garage or estate sale if I could though. The Vollrath Tribute is another option if you're willing to source your own lid (or you could buy theirs, but I wouldn't). It's 10 quart, 12" diameter, so a lid should be easy enough to find.


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## kokopuffs

*The Vollrath 7 QT Centurion* looks good, too. And so does this *7 QT Tramontina on ebay*.


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## kingnothing

salparadise said:


> Kokopuffs, what I use are DeBuyer Carbone carbon steel frying pans, Vollrath Tribute sauce pans, stock pots and sauté pan, and a Tramontina 6.5 quart enameled cast iron dutch oven. The DeBuyer is top quality, cooks like a dream. I fried three eggs (w/ butter) in my large DeBuyer this morning and it's just perfect-- not a hint of sticking, even heat, etc. It sears and grills meat, pan seared salmon fillets to perfection- stovetop to oven when needed. Can't say enough good things about these pans (3 sizes). The Vollrath Tribute is excellent as well, and my only complaint is that the lids are not custom fitted, but that's minor. The 6 quart sauté pan (12") gets a tremendous amount of use, highly versatile and useful. The dutch oven is what I mostly use for braising and it performs without complaint, however, the enamel is discolored now which is a minor annoyance. But I paid $39 for it rather than $150 or whatever Le Creuset costs in that size. If I was assured that the interior of the expensive brands would not discolor I'd probably spring for one. I might also go up one size to 8 or 9 quart since it would have more bottom surface for browning, and I could make larger batches of soups, but since I have 8 and 16 quart Tribute stock pots it's not imperative. All in all, I have a setup that performs extremely well, easy to maintain, and I don't have a ton of bucks in it either. If money were no object I might like to try copper, but having to polish it, using extreme care when cooking, and still get the interiors refinished periodically just seems like a lot when the clad stainless works so well for a fraction of the expense. I would like to have one of the low profile brasiers by Staub or Le Creuset- can anyone comment on the resistance to staining on the interior of those?


I have a Le Creuset 5.2L Enamelled Round Dutch Oven and I don't have any problems with staining yet. I have had it for over 2 years and roughly cook in it once a week. I will not hold back in adding anything to the pot. I have cooked tomato sauces, soups and stews with Tumeric, de-glazed with wine, curry powder, anything that could possibly stain it, I have used. I have burnt food on there accidentally and had no issues in the marks coming off.

But I have seen pictures of other peoples that are stained so not sure how they get there. Mine has held up great and I would buy another one in a heart beat. I'm actually considering it because 5.2L is just too small. wish I knew this before.


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## kokopuffs

I wished that I could afford Le Creuset brand.


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## french fries

I considered the $90 Costco "Kirkland" signature 8 Qt pot: http://www.costco.com/Kirkland-Sign...t-Iron-French-Oval-Oven.product.11758081.html but personally didn't buy it only because it's too large for me. But I did do a little sleuthing during my research....

*Costco Kirkland description:*

_Each Kirkland Signature[emoji]8482[/emoji] Oval French Oven is individually crafted in a sand mold. The molds are destroyed after each use, ensuring that your piece is a one-of-a-kind creation. Some irregularities may appear because of our traditional and handcrafted manufacturing process; however this will not affect the performance of your pots in any way._

*Staub description:*

_Each piece of Staub cookware has been personally designed by Mr. Francis Staub and individually crafted in a sand mould. The moulds are destroyed after each use, ensuring that your piece is a one-of-a-kind creation. Some irregularities may appear because of our traditional and hand-crafted manufacturing process but they will not affect the performance of your pots in any way._

You draw your own conclusions. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif





  








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french fries


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Mar 20, 2013


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## jake t bud

I hear Tramontina enameled dutch ovens are good, and not as pricey as Le Creuset or Staub. America's Test Kitchen gave it a best product review for the price. I don't personally own one. I own Le Creuset and got it on sale at a great deal. Note that the handles can't withstand over 400 degrees or so. You have to buy a stainless steel one separately if you plan on using higher temps.


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## salparadise

KingNothing said:


> I have a Le Creuset 5.2L Enamelled Round Dutch Oven and I don't have any problems with staining yet. I have had it for over 2 years and roughly cook in it once a week. I will not hold back in adding anything to the pot. I have cooked tomato sauces, soups and stews with Tumeric, de-glazed with wine, curry powder, anything that could possibly stain it, I have used. I have burnt food on there accidentally and had no issues in the marks coming off.
> 
> But I have seen pictures of other peoples that are stained so not sure how they get there. Mine has held up great and I would buy another one in a heart beat. I'm actually considering it because 5.2L is just too small. wish I knew this before.


I think there must be differences in the formulation of the enamel interior that account for my Tramontina staining and your Le Creuset not staining. I only paid $39 for mine and it's still perfectly functional, so I'm not much worried about it. If I had $325 in it (7.25 qt at williams sonoma) I'd certainly be unhappy about staining though. I'd love to invest in a LC because I know they're excellent in many ways, but I'm kinda tight with a buck and it takes some mental gymnastics to justify. ;-)


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## cameron miller




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## cameron miller

French Fries said:


> I considered the $90 Costco "Kirkland" signature 8 Qt pot: http://www.costco.com/Kirkland-Sign...t-Iron-French-Oval-Oven.product.11758081.html but personally didn't buy it only because it's too large for me. But I did do a little sleuthing during my research....
> 
> *Costco Kirkland description:*
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> _Each Kirkland Signature[emoji]8482[/emoji] Oval French Oven is individually crafted in a sand mold. The molds are destroyed after each use, ensuring that your piece is a one-of-a-kind creation. Some irregularities may appear because of our traditional and handcrafted manufacturing process; however this will not affect the performance of your pots in any way._
> 
> *Staub description:*
> 
> _Each piece of Staub cookware has been personally designed by Mr. Francis Staub and individually crafted in a sand mould. The moulds are destroyed after each use, ensuring that your piece is a one-of-a-kind creation. Some irregularities may appear because of our traditional and hand-crafted manufacturing process but they will not affect the performance of your pots in any way._
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> You draw your own conclusions. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif
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> Mar 20, 2013


Cast shower drain strainers are also made by hand, in sand molds. But yes, I see the connection you've pointed out. Costco's no dummy.

We recently bought the Kirkland 5-ply stainless pots & pans. Awesome quality. The only downside, when compared to All-Clad is that the Kirkland stuff doesn't have the multi-ply up the sides.


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## kokopuffs

After all said and done and all the research completed, I'm going to settle for a brazier in the *Vollrath Tribute* or the *Vollrath Centurian* line. The latter is twice as expensive as the former. They both seem good values for stainless steel and if it's good enough for restaurants to use, it's quite good enough for me.


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## kingnothing

kokopuffs said:


> After all said and done and all the research completed, I'm going to settle for a brazier in the *Vollrath Tribute* or the *Vollrath Centurian* line. The latter is twice as expensive as the former. They both seem good values for stainless steel and if it's good enough for restaurants to use, it's quite good enough for me.


I have a restaurant supplier where I get cost plus 5%. I'm just a home cook though. I ordered the Vollrath Tribute 16qt stock pot through them but they accidentally ordered me the Centurian line as that's the line they tend to order for restaurants . When I went down to pick it up I noticed the quality was pretty bad compared to the Tribute line. It also said it was made in China compared to the Tribute line which is made in the USA. The handles were poorly tack welded on as I could see the tack dimple on the inside of the pot. I think the stainless is way poorer quality and thickness on the Centurian line compared to the Tribute.

I have viewed the Tribute stock pots and the quality/workmanship is ay higher.


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## kokopuffs

KingNothing said:


> I have a restaurant supplier where I get cost plus 5%. I'm just a home cook though. I ordered the Vollrath Tribute 16qt stock pot through them but they accidentally ordered me the Centurian line as that's the line they tend to order for restaurants . When I went down to pick it up I noticed the quality was pretty bad compared to the Tribute line. It also said it was made in China compared to the Tribute line which is made in the USA. The handles were poorly tack welded on as I could see the tack dimple on the inside of the pot. I think the stainless is way poorer quality and thickness on the Centurian line compared to the Tribute.
> 
> I have viewed the Tribute stock pots and the quality/workmanship is ay higher.


That's good to know. Who is your supplier?? Are they online?


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## kingnothing

kokopuffs said:


> That's good to know. Who is your supplier?? Are they online?


They aren't online, they are a supplier in Vancouver, Canada.

I've monitored Amazon for prices for Tribute line and they seem really reasonable.


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## kokopuffs

KingNothing said:


> They aren't online, they are a supplier in Vancouver, Canada.
> 
> I've monitored Amazon for prices for Tribute line and they seem really reasonable.


I'm monitoring both amazon and suppliers in the CONUS.


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## salparadise

The Centurion is stainless with a disc bottom, whereas Tribute is fully clad. Especially for a brazier, I think the fully clad would be preferred. It makes the temperature more stable and easier to hold right at a low simmer. I am quite pleased with my Tribute pieces.


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## andybbq

There is no ultimate set.  A la carte is the way to go.

I have several pieces that I love,some that I wish I had and some that just sits in the back of the cupboard waiting for God knows what lol.

First and foremost my favorite has to be the Dutch ovens, the el cheapo from Tramontina via that huge store.com and the Le Creuset.  Both are versatile  for browning, braising deep frying and more.  The all Clad 12" skillet I love for browning and then de glazing for a pan sauce.  To pan fry a steak, Cast Iron can´t be beat and the Griswold is second to none in my opinion, though I don´t have one yet, I cooked on one at my friend´s place. I like it better than my Lodge.  I am going to find a used one, strip and re season.  I also have a couple of somewhat thin carbon steel pans Johnson & Rose I think. They are tricky to use and super responsive but on the induction burner they are awesome.  Kind of like a sports car on the stove.  I want to try a De Buyer.  As for the rest of the lot, I bought the Clad Tramontina from that huge store.com pretty durable, nice even heat and pretty cheap.  Almost as good as All clad.  The 10 piece set sells for $200 but can be found sometimes on Ebay for much less.  I recently bought a 10piece set as a gift for $113.00.  It seems to be a favorite amongst employees of that huge store who buy them discounted and sell them on Ebay. Oh and of course there is the pressure cooker, I like the Fagor. Some things just can´t wait.  I like it for preparing stock.  It seems that the extra high heat just brings out the flavor from the bones.  Another kitchen staple, the Graniteware oval roaster, great for many things.  I also like restaurant full size and half size pans which work well for a lot of things.  Just got an All Clad Saucier which I have used only once to make gravey at Christmas, it was pretty nice.


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## andybbq

The Tramontina is great, I have both a Tramontina and a Le Creuset.

The Le Creuset is a bit lighter but both cook equally well


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## drlogik

I agree with previous posts.  Buy only what you need or want and not a set.  If you get a set you will be buying the things you really need later on.

For the money, nothing, IMHO, beats Vollrath (stainless or aluminum).  No, it's not pretty but it gets the job done (and well I might add) and you can outfit your wife with restaurant quality cookware for a lot less than the (quote) name brand stuff.  Try $40 bucks for a 10" skillet versus $120 for All-Clad, even more for Mauviel, E. DeHillerin, Matfer, etc. 

I buy my Vollrath at a local restaurant supply house.  No showroom, no frills, no thrills and generally if you pay cash they discount the purchase quite a bit.  And I virtually guarantee you'll walk out with a lot more than a few pots.  You just won't be able to resist the urge to buy other stuff to, like restaurant tongs, Forschner chef's knife, mixing bowls, heavy duty cooking sheets.  I mean it's a candy shop for cooks!!  Look in the yellow pages for "restaurant supply". 

This is not Dean and Deluca, Bed Bath & Beyond, Williams and Sonoma, etc.  These places are a wholesalers that sell commercial equipment to restaurants.  They are generally located in an industrial park.

I cooked with Vollrath for 20+ years before I bought myself a nice pot (Mauviel stainless - and it is VERY nice).  I also cook with old cast iron and you can't go wrong there either.  For pure stove-top cooking, it's hard to beat good quality cast iron...and the good stuff is very old (i.e.1930's or earlier - Griswold, Wagner, etc).  Yes, purchase it used.

I recently purchased  a new 10" and 12" de Buyer Mineral B iron pans and I must say I am very impressed so far.  Much more modern looking yet very functional.  I think it's basically forged iron ware not cast.

I don't buy for looks.  I buy for utility and how well the cookware performs.  Folks that come over to our house to eat comment that I have cookware that they've never seen before.  That's because nobody goes back into the kitchen of a good restaurant to check out what they actually use.  I use what they use.


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## kokopuffs

DrLogik said:


> I agree with previous posts. Buy only what you need or want and not a set. If you get a set you will be buying the things you really need later on.
> 
> For the money, nothing, IMHO, beats Vollrath (stainless or aluminum). No, it's not pretty but it gets the job done (and well I might add) and you can outfit your wife with restaurant quality cookware for a lot less than the (quote) name brand stuff. Try $40 bucks for a 10" skillet versus $120 for All-Clad, even more for Mauviel, E. DeHillerin, Matfer, etc.
> 
> I buy my Vollrath at a local restaurant supply house. No showroom, no frills, no thrills and generally if you pay cash they discount the purchase quite a bit. And I virtually guarantee you'll walk out with a lot more than a few pots. You just won't be able to resist the urge to buy other stuff to, like restaurant tongs, Forschner chef's knife, mixing bowls, heavy duty cooking sheets. I mean it's a candy shop for cooks!! Look in the yellow pages for "restaurant supply"...


Two brands rule as far as stuff that is supplied by restaurant suppliers (not in any order):

*Vollrath* (their Optio line)
*Matfer Bourgeat* (they're way way proud of their stuff and the price shows it!)


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## singularity6

My folks bought me a Farberware set (stainless with black handles) probably 15 years ago. Everything but the non-stick pans are still in tip-top shape (non-stick pans had to get replaced, as expected.)

I don't think any of the pots get unused, though I do find myself reaching for a non-stick 2 quart pot every time I make rice.

I love my cast iron pan (10", I think) and I do use a variety of non-stick frying pans, depending on what I'm cooking (eggs for just me? Or dinner for many... all sizes get used!)

In the end, brands probably don't matter much. Here're my recommendations:

Pots should have a heavy bottom and sturdy sides
Frying pans are best if they're oven safe
Dutch Ovens are handy (I got a Lodge from Marshall's for $40... quite serviceable!)


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