# The Food Network? Yesterday and today



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Strickly my opinion ""
When the Food Network started, I thought it was quite good. It aquainted the general public with concepts and procedures that pro chefs use. I feel however it has changed , and for the worst. 
I put it on and watch Guy eating away a big sandwich while standing near or over a prep table in a diner, totaly against any health code in any state. Flay who gets up and stands on tables, and issues a challenge to a woman that makes dim sum for a living where self admits he never has made any.. Critics that judge the taste of chefs offerings based strickly on their likes and dislikes. 
Some joker on Sunday mornings that has no idea about what he is talking about but has a good personality.
So many blatent examples of cross contamination., and although not on the food channel there is Gordon who makes the public think we are all a bunch of screaming idiots,. Why dont they have 3 days of Real Pros on there and 4 days of the other, like Sandra Lee (but she is attractive) Rachel (she is cute) and the Sunday morning guy and Oh yea the couple who have a bar b q place down south but attempt other things by trial and error. I hope the public does not think we run kitchen nightmare type places and this is the way we all act. :chef:


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

I agree and I havent turned it on in probably 6 months. I really have no interest in Rachel Ray, or Guy Fieri or any of the others on there. It is nothing like it was years ago and I just have no interest in it.


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## trk (Mar 14, 2009)

Oh my. Open can - out comes worms...

Besides all the abominations you've mentioned, can we just chat for a moment about the sexualization of the FN? Now, I'm no prude but I can't, for the life of me, understand how I'm supposed to watch Giada's knife skills with an onion when her bigger-than-life boobies are filling the screen. How on earth can anyone tolerate that caricature of Southern hospitality, Paula Deen, an her constant dirty talk with every male that comes to her set? Watching Nigella Lawson is truly like watching soft porn. Even Rachel Ray has gotten in on the act with cleavage aplenty squeezed into her 30 minute meals. All these new female chefs (with the exception of Anne Burrel, who has her own issues) are appealing to whom? Other women? I'm a female and I can promise that Geena Neeley and her cutesy delivery and fliratious behavior with her husband makes me want to put my whetstone through the TV screen. Bobby Flay and Emerl are almost a relief from the onslaught of "home cooks" who have somehow landed a career on TV as culinary authorities. At least they paid their dues.

If you look at the bios for some of these folks (and I'm ashamed to admit I've done this), most have little or no restaurant experience. Some, like Ellie Krieger, were nutritionists and some have "written" about food. Those that have industry experience, like Dean and Ina Garten, owned their own specialty shops turning out home style cooking in exclusive communities. Hardly what I would call paying one's dues. At least Ina sticks to the classics and her recipes work, despite the fact that I'm convinced the woman is on high doses of Valium.

It's impossible to watch this channel any longer. While I still tune in for Iron Chef and Chopped, everything else is just idiotic and insulting. The network may have started with the best of intentions, but their goal now seems to be an appeal to the celebrity hungry culture and the Hooters-loving masses. I do find it interesting that FN gives no opportunity on their website for viewer feedback. When they ran their last Next Food Network Star progam, they allowed for some viewer email and most of it was quite negative - people complaining about how bawdy, raunchy, and unprofessional the shows were. Guess they don't read their email.


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## mont86 (Jan 24, 2009)

I find it interesting, but that is the way t.v. has gone in the last 15 years. I have been watching kitchen nightmares online..Its pretty interesting how some of the people get themselves in these jams with no experience in the food service business.


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## schuster (Apr 21, 2009)

The invention of the DVR and the downfall of nearly every specialty network kinda balance out in my opinion. About 90% of the shows on food network now are crap, but I try to learn what I can. Even Rachel Ray occasionally cooks up an interesting flavor combination or preparation, plus as you mentioned, she is pretty cute. The shows on my DVR are Good Eats and Chopped. I like Good Eats, A.B. always has an interesting sciency take on food that I appreciate greatly even if I already know what he's saying, and my girlfriend loves Chopped. Frankly, I think it's a mediocre show, but I always get enjoyment out of thinking what I would make with the mystery ingredients. It's like three exercises of the culinary mind spanned over an hour. Then I get to see what they made. It's somewhat interesting, though I could deal without all the overdramatics. The show could be condensed into five minutes and be much better, but meh. DVR for the win.

Lee


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## buonaboy (Sep 5, 2007)

yes. yes it is. As a mater of fact, I could gladly drift away into sweet slumber listening to her read passages of Escoffier. -But that's besides the point.

Why aren't there more shows like "After Hours with Daniel Boulud" ? THAT is the kind of cooking show cooks want to see. If you haven't seen it, go check it out on Hulu - Watch your favorites. Anytime. For free.

I liked the original "Malto Mario". real cooking, minimal editing, and the only thing that was sexy was the panchetta.


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## chefelle (Feb 17, 2007)

In Canada we used to get Chef At Large with Chef Michael Smith. LOVED that program. But they cancelled in favour of Chef At Home and another program which I believe was also cancelled called Chef Abroad. I HATE Chef At Home and Chef Abroad.

So I no longer watch Food Network...unless I catch an episode of Ace of Cakes. I really like Duff Goldman..he makes me laugh.


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## oldschool1982 (Jun 27, 2006)

_"Oh my. Open can - out comes worms..."_ Thanks for the chuckle trk!!!:lol:

I've made a promise to limit the time my foot spends in my mouth for a while so......with that said.......:blush:

I hate to be a basher with things like this but like most of you I find it lacking in....well....everything. There are a couple shows that are watched during a blue moon just for the chuckle factor but I have to say that it's not even a close shadow of it's former self. It's funny that television in general has taken on a sort of "Running Man" persona. Yet, given the popularity of many of the shows out there today, (FN and he rest) they're obviously someones cup of tea..... just not mine. I do miss some of the old shows.


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## trk (Mar 14, 2009)

I just found the "After Hours..." program on Hulu the other day and was THRILLED to be watching a great food show, with accomplished chefs, creating and sharing great meals. And, it WAS entertaining! It is so unnecessary, IMHO, to reduce food shows to such smarmy depths just to appeal to an allegedly larger audience. I watch food shows for inspiration, not titillation. I don't want to hear about the Neely's kids, Rachel's boyfriend, or Ina's FABULOUS Hampton companions. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence or knowledge would feel insulted while watching Tyler Florence refer to his carrots as "these guys" - he is worst offender in this cavalcade of clowns who, for some unknown reason, want to personify food with cutesy termonology like their hosting Sesame Street. I want to scream at the TV that I am a 50 year old woman and I do not refer to my food as "guys" or "gals".


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## iconoclast (Aug 8, 2007)

wow... i cannot believe there is another person who felt this way...(http://www.cheftalk.com/forums/255649-post106.html) i am annoyed with giada... her breasts are the main focus of the show and the food is the supporting cast... it is ridiculous... (on a side not her over use of italian accent on certain items irritates me to no end, but that is a whole 'nother topic) imo she is only on there bc of her family connections and her looks.

it seems the food network has gone the way of reality tv to compete with the rest of the tv markets... everything is average joe, or cook easy/simply/quickly, i can only think of two shows on food network that actually involve restaurant chefs who focus on food... iron chef, and secrets of a restaurant chef... everytime i put it on food network i quickly turn it off... if i see guy fiery eat another disgusting sandwich im going to vomit.


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## chef bill (Oct 24, 2007)

if any pro is going to watch food network and is expectiong to find something for them they are crazy. these shows are for the house wife, i still get pissed when people ooohhh and ahhhhh at emril using butter and salt. My sister went to go see his show and at the end he says "thanks for supporting the cause"???? what!! is he a freedom fighter for salt and butter?
the only sjows pro's should be watching on food network is iron chef, good eats and the challanges. the challanges and iron chef is how pro's work in their kitchen and good eats is a little more on the science end of it but i get a ton of info out of every show. if the dvd's werent so expensive i would buy the whole series


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## bughut (Aug 18, 2007)

Such a well timed thread.

I returned yesterday from a fabulous fortnight at folly beach sc. Hubby and boy slept late, and i gave into a masochismic hour of total cheese on the food channel...I cant believe emeril. OMG The man was applauded for adding butter. In fact every stage was woo-hoo'd. The audience constantly thriled with the guy's cullinary majesty.

I thought UK food channel was lame, but after a rainy day of food channel tv we were gobsmacked. It was so bad we had to keep watching.

Paula Deen Y'ALL...I was sick in my mouth

The heelies ...I think my marraige is in trouble

We get the barefoot contessa at home and she scaares me. You've just got to hear that constant fake laugh...Reminds me of a horror movie i saw in the 80's with sweet yet manic wifie and a couple of unfortunate kids.

Giada... we get that too...I don't

Rachel Ray ... she's the tops. She could be rubbish and i'd still watch her. She must be doing wonders for the sales of evoo... Anyway i bought her magazine to read on the way back to Edinburgh cos i did actually learn stuff from her programme. Unlike &^% Emeril unless you count the best way to use "paperico or make a nice tampenade"

We did do other stuff too, but food channel will be a holiday memory


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## bughut (Aug 18, 2007)

just wanted to say... If ive offended anyone re. their food channel heroes, then i'm sorry...Just my opinion


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## iconoclast (Aug 8, 2007)

youre forgetting that iron chef is almost entirely staged, when a nights service isnt... not trying to take away from these iron chefs. theyre all great at what they do, but the show to is borderline watchable.


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## chef tomain (Nov 17, 2008)

Most of those TV Chef show are for the general public who have no clue what goes on in a restaurant and have limited cooking skills. The Pro Chef should feel insulted. Next time you go to the grocery store check out whats in most of the carts, processed foods, frozen prepared meal, can this and that, its not to say that there isn't any good home cooks but they are definitely in the minority. So the public( a term used in pr to segragate a group to be marketed to) that watch those shows have a very low food IQ. These people need simple and entertaining show. Even Alton Brown show Good Eat which i think is ok is just a few recipes with Food Science thrown in. So next time you get that " I can't believe he/she is doing something you don't like" tune into the porn channel no I mean the NBA play offs.


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## theautomaton (Apr 24, 2009)

I am not a pro. chef, so I'm not allowed over here, but I couldn't resist.
The Food Network is for entertainment only. Just like the survival shows on The Discovery Channel. If you watch Survivorman and then go out and try to live off pine bark and grasshoppers for a week, you're crazy.
The Food Network is mainly reality tv now anyway. The only shows I'll watch are Good Eats, because I find it funny and somewhat informative and Chopped, because I think it's entertaining. You won't learn much about cooking from watching a vegan chef trying to make gummy bears and squid into a meal...
If I were a professional chef I wouldn't be offended by TFN. It's for fun.

And I agree about Giada. Her skinny *** is just on tv because she's hot. And I hate Dean's fake accent. I watched her show once and it took me a while to figure out that "all" means "oil" and I live in the South!!

I don't think a pro should be watching ANY cooking show looking for working knowledge. I mean, Good Eats will teach you some cool facts you might not have known, but most of the fare offered on the Network is just entertainment for normal folks who like looking at inedible, motorized cakes.


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## chefelle (Feb 17, 2007)

I don't think any of us in the industry actually watch the Food Network for "working knowledge". We just like food and anything that has to do with food interests us. We're looking for entertainment too!

I am a professional chef and I am not offended by the Food Network. It's geared to a different audience than me. It's just that in times past there used to be some great cooking shows that could be enjoyed by the home cook and the pro chef alike. I think those of us in the industry sort of mourn for those shows. 

There also used to be some other shows that while not geared to the professional chef WERE entertaining. Then they removed them all. My favourite time of the morning used to be 2 am when I was getting up to go into my bakery for a 4 am start...I'd spend my first hour of the day with the Food Network Challenge. And if I was really lucky I'd catch an episode of The F Word. Now it's all Guy's Big Bite, Christine Cushing, and 30 Minute Meals. No thanks. 

I think I'm probably seriously in the minority here but I CANNOT STAND Alton Brown. He gets on my nerves big time. To each his own, I guess.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Meh.... for the last 11 years we had no cable, so the TV was pretty much for ornamentation and videos. So after Christmas this year we finally gave in to the kids and got cable. For the first week, I watched nothing. One evening my son had the TV on to food channel, he called me over because there was a "cooking show" on. Ah, so that's what Racheal Ray looks like. After 30 seconds I walked a way again. I've never bothered to look at the box since, and it's almost May now.....


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## trk (Mar 14, 2009)

Maybe some folks have long term memory loss but alas, there was a time when the food network had much to offer for EVERYONE. In my opinion, as a pro, if you can learn from or take inspiration from a cook book, a class, or a youtube video, you can certainly learn from TV. I'm not elititist and never felt bound to PBS only (until now) because back in the day, FN had such awesome and educational programs as Chocolate with Jaques Torres, Bakers Dozen with Marion Cunningham, East Meets West with Ming Tsai, Rick Bayless, Mario Batali, Gale Gand (who will be a guest here on Cheftalk) and of course, Julia. When I was first starting out as a pro in the early 90's, I DID take inspiration from some of these shows and they were targeting an audience of foodies. While I agree that those days are long gone, I think it's a bit pretentious to assert that pro's are beyond learning from cooking shows. I don't know everything about Mexican cooking or Asian cooking - and according to St. Bourdain (who was ALSO on Food Network), one could live an entire lifetime and still continue to learn about these cuisines. Why on earth would it be more acceptable to learn from a cookbook or a class than a TV program? 

Ideally, one would hope to learn on the job, under the tutelage of a great chef. But if you're cooking in a Mediteranean style restaurant, who is going to show you how to make great tamales? I suppose you could spend another ten years on the job, hoping for a chance to work in a great authentic Mexican restaurant where you might be taught these cuisines. Or, you could teach yourself.

Food TV has gone the way of MTV, IMO. Once, the latter network was devoted to music only and appealed to a predominantly rock audience (remember Michael Jackson couldn't get his video on there at first). Today, the only time you'll see a music video on MTV is 8am or 2am. The rest of the time is devoted to highlighting the general debauchery of tatooed and pierced bottom feeders and attention whores. 

Rant over...for now...


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## theautomaton (Apr 24, 2009)

TRK nailed it I think. I think that most channels that used to be educational have gone the way of mind-numbing pointless bull, personally. I mean, does anyone remember when you used to be able to learn something from The Discovery Channel or The Learning Channel. Now all you can find on there are reality shows about idiotic dog trainers who hardly know which end of the animal to feed and documentaries about religious wing-nuts with twenty plus children. I think we just have to keep in mind the nature of your "average" TV viewer. Most of them are vapid morons who would rather light their own heads aflame than learn something, so reality shows about midgets and cooking shows about 7 foot tall flying super-hero cakes it is.


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## iconoclast (Aug 8, 2007)

anyone here remember graham kerr??? i remember watching him as a kid... he was funny and educational. also yen can cook...


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## m.d.hughes (Apr 28, 2007)

I just want to see that Guy dude's sunglasses fall into a deep fryer, preferably whilst still attached to his head


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## rat (Mar 2, 2006)

I remember my mom following along with Julia Child on TV, she was making some sort of duck a l'orange? My mom couldn't keep up with the show, I learned many new words that day.......


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## gunnar (Apr 3, 2008)

I miss the Cajun Cook from the good ol days of PBS. Him and Yan Can Cook would be on back to back when i was a kid. Would watch him with my dad. Every recipe had wine in it and half the bottle would go in the recipe and the other half in to the Cajun Cook.


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## even stephen (Oct 10, 2005)

I miss "Justin" too. He had a great recipe for BBQ crab using smoked salt.
He was really fun to watch and if you ever tried his recipes, some were
pretty darn good. He reminded me of my Grandfather...who was from the
outer banks in the carolinas....


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## iconoclast (Aug 8, 2007)

i hate him so much. he is so annoying and it aggrevates me to watch him on tv. i immediately change the channel... hes such a bro. worst person.


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## rsteve (May 3, 2007)

Thanks to all for this thread. It's given me a hearty laugh. From criticism of Giada's cleavage to Nigella's "soft porn", to the general dislike of Rachel Ray and Sandra Lee, I've laughed and laughed. How in heaven's name can anyone be so upset, make that incensed, over TV food programming designed for a mass audience?

What do you expect, Dr. Robert Jarvik, to replace Hugh Laurie in _House _so physicians are happier with the show? Maybe Alan Dershowitz should have replaced William Shattner as Denny Crane in _Boston Legal _???

It's *TV*, nothing more. If, as a professional, you're looking to The Food Network for continuing education, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

Most TVs have functioning on-off switches and channel changing capability. If Giada and others offend you, watch something else. Frankly, I saw more cleavage on my morning walk today than I would in a few years of viewing Giada.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Problem is, it's billed as "reality TV" and most schmucks believe it. 

Many of them are young and think nothing of spending 40 grand on a cooking school so they can be like "their Hero" on TV. And guessy-guessy who has to bring such people back to reality in MY kitchen?


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## trk (Mar 14, 2009)

A wee bit condescending, no?

So, I guess you've never read any chef autobiographies or articles where chefs discuss their earliest influences? Never heard any of them say that seeing Julia Child or Jacques Pepin on TV inflamed their passion for cooking? And perhaps you are unaware that prior to any food programming on TV, cooking was on a downward trajectory and heading quickly toward the prolifieration of Swanson Frozen Dinners into every American home? Yes, I'm generalizing, but anyone who has ever read a book about the history of food in our country in the last 50 years can't rationally deny the impact that food programming on TV has had.

With all that said, the Food Network did have credibility when it first started. My previous post lists the many successful chefs that had, at one time, either their own show or a presence on the network. In response to your statement:
let me just say that yes, I can still learn from such folks as Lidia Bastianich, Rick Bayless, Jacques Pepin, and GALE GAND (a recent guest here on ChefTalk). All these successful chefs did time on the Food Network. I suppose when I've published several cookbooks, owned a string of my own restaurants, and hosted my own food show, I can say confidently that there is nothing I can learn from successful chefs who appear on TV.


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## rsteve (May 3, 2007)

No, not at all. The Food Network is not educational TV. You want educational TV, sample some of the food programming on PBS. Nothing in the entertainment media stays the same, ever.

In your opinion, The Food Network has regressed. Others find it more entertaining. Obviously, the general public has moved TFN's programming in another direction; away from education and directed to entertainment. If it no longer suits your needs, watch something else. I think I get 97 channels with my cable TV package and I often can find nothing I care to watch, so I just shut it off.


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## rsteve (May 3, 2007)

You're of a much different generation than I am. In July of 1958, I heard those magic words, "I need two lean corn beef on caraway rye; plenty of pickles and beets, they're friends !" MTV ?? Michael Jackson?? Remember?? I know nothing of Michael Jackson's inability to get a video on MTV.


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## chef_matt (Mar 18, 2008)

Yeah, Graham is a really nice guy. I met him around 2000 he was doing a book signing here in Portland, ore. I met him and his wife Trina. Really just as nice as you remember him on tv very bubby personality. 

We talked for a few minutes. I know he did a stint with Haggen (food stores) for developing some ideas for there deli case. But I havent much heard about him lately.

Matt


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## gunnar (Apr 3, 2008)

Hulu and bit-torrents are your friend:smoking:


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## rsteve (May 3, 2007)

As you may know, Kerr and and Trina have had heath issues. Both are in their mid 70s and Graham had a long battle with alcoholism. Trina had a stroke in the mid 80s. I believe it was in his battle with the bottle when Graham became a very devout Christian. You may recall that he had a short lived TV program that was pulled off the air because he insisted on including some prayer.


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## rsteve (May 3, 2007)

I've actually tried Hulu, but bit-torrents are far beyond me. I have no idea what they are.


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## rivver (May 13, 2009)

Food Network is just awful. They need to fire that president of the network with the quickness. The only cool cutting edge show that they have is Iron Chef. I actually lose passion for food when I watch food network. Their thirty minute shows are so beyond corny and goofy. From Guy acting like he is a co-star from the movie Swingers, or that Everyday Italian chef that does that silly sexy eye thing everytime she eats something. Dont get me started on that one show that shows us how everything is made with that annoying Mark guy. Actually, I think the guy in charge of most horrible shows is that Elliot guy? Fire him! It's all too fake for me to swallow.

Food Network should be the birth place of cutting edge shows that excite, motivate, inspire, piss off and wow the viewers not bore them to death and make them feel less inspired. These Disney goody good personailties need to go.

Shows like No Reservations, Hells Kitchen, The Restaurant, Top Chef, F word, Kitchen Nightmares (UK Version) should of came from Food Network, but instead they create the lamest rip off versions. Just Awful. Just hire talent with "real" personailites and let them keep their own flare, instead of turning them into a Disney toon.

I do however like Booby Flay and a couple of others that keep it real and fun. Food Network would be awesome if they were leaders and not horrible followers.

/rant off


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## iconoclast (Aug 8, 2007)

food tv is less about food these days and more about tv... theyre more concerned with getting celebrities or creating celebrities than focusing on food... now coming from a business POV you do what brings in the money, however coming from the content/quality end, you should stick to your beliefs and roots and remember what the channel was originally about... 

long story short our rants on her will prolly fall onto deaf ears, as long as the masses tune in, however its good to vent. 

hopefully one day one of the food tv execs or the powers that be over there stumble across this thread and take it to heart... 

i would love to see the food network focus on food again, and actually having chefs on tv instead of joe schmoes and the like deep frying or using creating corny sandwiches or anything with lard just bc its popular doesnt make it good.


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

Standard disclaimer: I'm not a pro, but I have a small amount of relevant information probably not otherwise known on this forum:
In Japan, where Iron Chef came from as you know, the show had a great deal of trouble over the years. The problem was that somebody wins and somebody loses, and it's usually the challengers who lose. The show was quite popular, and it could be a serious blow to a restaurant to have the chef lose on national TV. The result, of course, was that chefs increasingly didn't want to come on the show.

One of the many things that Disney-ifies Food Network is their desire to have everything be happy and good and friendly and nice nice. Take Flay's "Throwdown." Even if he wins, they go to enormous trouble to ensure that the other cook is made to look great, and Bobby does lots of hugging and whatnot. On Iron Chef, too, the challengers are buttered up and complimented in a way that didn't happen so much on the Japanese version.

Just a piece of side information that might be useful.

And now back to your regularly scheduled program.


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## iconoclast (Aug 8, 2007)

you can catch the japanese originals on US television... they air them late at night on certain channels.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

I completely agree with this statement! I had someone ask me once if I cooked a new meal every night and when I told them I did they gave me the oddest look! I think we get stares in the checkout lane at the grocery store too because we're one of the few families (well that shop at our store anyway) that doesn't have anything pre-prepared in their carts! I do my fresh shopping at the local farmer's market and all we use the grocery store for is canned and dry goods.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

I remember watching the Galloping Gourmet with Graham Kerr when I was a little kid and I loved it! At the time I had no idea I would one day be a cook but he was entertaining. 

As for the food network today.. I hate it, and I hate Food Network Canada even more. The few shows I did watch I can no longer watch on our station and it seems that it's more reality shows and honestly shows I have no interest in watching on there. 

One show that I did enjoy was the Urban Peasant. I think it was James Barber who hosted it and from what I could gather he had directed the show at bachelors and he did demonstrate some easy to pepare meals that were tasty and appealing to the eye. ( I did try a few of his recipes years ago)


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## bughut (Aug 18, 2007)

I'm really grateful to the UK food network for the programmes we get. Ive cringed my way through many US shows when over there and a few of ours are just as bad. But on the whole ours seem to be more real life, and inspirational. You only have to watch Nigella and you want to get the pans out. Rick Stein actively promotes eating more sustainable fish and Reza Mahammed has made Indian cooking easy and do-able for everyone...I could go on, But you may not know who i'm talking about.

We sometimes get Top chef and Iron chef and they're great fun. I'm warming to Ina Garten. She's a scary lady...All fake laugh and scared hubby.

I do think if you're not happy, you should bombard the show makers with your protests. They may not listen, but then again if enough folk say we're not happy it may make a difference.

I once wrote in to a show to say i wasnt happy with the message they were sending... Cross contamination over and over. I was duly ignored. They have made some changes now tho, although the ubiquitous multi purpose teatowel still rears its ugly head

I think US food channels need to get a balance between entertainment and education

Edutainment


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

i agree Bughut... entertainment and education can be combined and if it is done well it will do well out there in the ratings.

This is a lame-ish comparison but my family loves Mythbusters... we all know it is mostly tv grandeur but they do get their science plugs in there so while we are having fun watching Adam and Jamie blow stuff up we're also learning some things too. 

I would love to see a show totally food related that goes along with the mythbusters concept... that would be very interesting!


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## natividad (Aug 4, 2009)

I've put in 25 years in the business. when i first started, i told my parents that i was going to culinary school and i got a look of horror, lol. back then "cooking" wasn't considered a particularly "professional" or respected career choice. there were no celebrity chefs and people thought that trained chef's were really no different than short order cooks. in mid western america people would look down on you. that all changed with the food network. it opened up a whole new world of thoughts and perseptions to people in our field. suddenly it was respected and even a bit glamorous to be a chef, i dare say that a whole generation of our latest best and brightest wouldn't be cooking at all without it. so i, for one, am greatful for the food network. sure it could be better, but think of where we would be without it.:chef::chef:


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## bughut (Aug 18, 2007)

I agree with you Natividad...Up to a point. No.2 son was inspired by a very young Jamie Oliver to beleive he could be more than "just a chef" I'm sure culinary schools were jam-packed with young hopefuls the year he appeared on our screens.

Chefs worth their salt, though, have been reviered for centuries without tv.

I think the food networks have shown the average person a whole new way of enjoying food. People now want more...They expect more. We eat food we'd never heard of before. 
At home in Dundee, the last 10-15 years have seen amazing changes. There used to be 2 places to eat . Unless you wanted fishnchips or a greasy spoon cafe. We now have so much choice.

So i'm happy to have food networks, but i do think they've lost something along the way since conception


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

The reason why there are frozen foods in carts is because Mom and Dad have to work for a living.......The kid doesn't grow up with any knowledge of cooking but they do have Soccor, Baseball, football,dance, tennis, Volleyball, swimming, whatever.....Find a Kid that has his Mom home and you will find a Kid that knows how to cook....................................We all took the 3 cars in the driveway and the 500K house.....................See what we got.........................Bill


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

Both my husband and I work full time and I make a fresh meal every night and while my kids are fussy eaters at times, they will eat pretty much anything. I did stay home for a few years when they were small and I know I had "all day to make dinner" ....HA! anyone who says that hasn't been a stay home mom to two active kids who like the local parks and libraries.... and yeah then too I cooked every night. We didn't go for the 3 cars and 500K house.. thank goodness,.. or the hockey or all that running around from activity to activity


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## niznickr (Aug 25, 2009)

Not to play devils advocate but, FN is just a network, they rely on what the market wants to plan the entertainment. Unfortunately or fortunately, what they show is what the masses want. I do not like a lot of the shows either, but, ****...if the kids are watching it and loving it, then they just may become interested in the culinary arts and become our future Executive Chefs of America. At the end of the day, isn;t that what we all want anyway....the next generation to keep the culinary arts alive and appealing? I would hope so........


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

You're assuming the network execs _know _what the masses want. Such is not the case, as evidenced by FN's continued loss of viewership and revenues. They threw away the demographic that made them without really having a replacement. So now they're casting around trying to to give us shows that are: 1. cheap to produce, and, 2. maybe will bring in the mass audience.

A classic case. In their chefography of the Neeley's the network president specifically talks about how their popularity is due, in part, because of the format of a couple cooking together. "People want that," she insists.

Uh, huh! Then how come, among all the really stupid shows they've put together the past couple of years, there are no other couples having fun with each other in the kitchen?

Instead of focusing on what they _claim _is a winning format they'd reather experiment with things like that new show with Brian Boitano---which, far as I can tell, should be subtitled Bob & Ted's Excellent Adventure in the Kitchen with the Muppets.

Or how about that Chefs And The City? Gimme a break! That's neither good food nor good entertainment.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

My husband works in advertising (he's a graphic designer for an ad agency in TO) and well sadly the people making the choices as to what goes and what doesn't have no clue what mr and mrs public want to see or hear or even have on their cell phones for that matter. It's all about competition and if the other guys is doing it then by gum the client has to do the same thing better whether or not it appeals to the rest of the world or even their own clientele. Clients are their own worst enemies at times and some of the stories he tells me are downright funny! (and really sad too because these freaks are very well paid for their stupidity)


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## niznickr (Aug 25, 2009)

KYheirloomer,
good points indeed and well taken. As far as couples having fun in the kitchen...well my wife and I have fun in the kitchen but it is not "cooking"....


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Ahhhh, Niznickr. But have you tried it with Creme Anglaise? :beer:


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

Creme Anglaise is divine................thick, soft and full bodied, it goes with just about anything.....:crazy:


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## erictheard (Aug 21, 2009)

Amazing how dirty this thread got all of a sudden.

There are still some interesting shows on the food network. Maybe not as many as a few years ago but Bobby Flay is the man and Alton Brown knows as many food facts than anybody I've ever met. The key is to get what you can out of the shows that are on. The ones you can stomach watching anyway, which excludes any of Guy Fieri's shows and that new winner Melissa for me. All things are gonna change eventually, no sense in being so irate over it. I keep on watching the channel waiting for the Japanese Iron Chef to begin airing again, those guys did some serious cooking. Anyway, there isn't any other channel so devoted to the progress of American Culinary growth. Even with all those home cook style shows at least people can learn how to make a meal from canned goods rather than running to the closest Mickey D's. I would definitely like to see more shows that appeal to me and my industry, but I'll take what I can get.

One last thing, I cant believe so many people are complaining about Giada's cleavage. That's just a bonus when watching her show. And it helps me ignore her over-dramatic pronunciation of every ingredient.


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## bughut (Aug 18, 2007)

Is very difficult _not _to over pronounce Italian IMO. The language lends itself to a passionate performance. We're all learning it at the moment and we sound ike a scene from the Sopranos when we get going. I know what you mean tho. She's a bit OTT
As a man lovin woman, I have to say...She's hot!


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Some of the food handleing I see on the food network is a discrace. This big daddy guy supposed cook , sticking his fingers into the food over and over to tast it??? Health Department should descend on their studios and issue fines and court appearance citations.


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## radhaks (May 12, 2009)

I agree entirely with FN journey from a really interesting show (at least for non-professional cooks like myself) to a completely useless network, aside from AB's show. Too bad! More time for Discovery or History Channel for me (sadly, even Desperate Housewives has become something I would watch over FN shows).


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## iconoclast (Aug 8, 2007)

lol he is one of the biggest culprits... i watched his show a few times, and the food is just bad... it doesnt even look appetizing on the show.


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

Nothing makes me see green but when a chef sticks his finger in food to taste instead of taking a few extra seconds to get a spoon. I was shocked to see my Jacques Pepin to do it last night.


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## ras1187 (Oct 3, 2006)

If FN became a constant 24/7 loop of Japanese Iron Chef reruns, I seriously would never turn my tv off.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

I have seen some bad food handling on FN as well.. and it goes back a long time too! I started watching it back in the early 1990's when I knew that when I went back to work I would be going into the food industry and not back to my job in the social service field (I have a BA in Early Childhood Education as well as many post degree certificates that qualified me to work with special needs kids and adults) and even back then I saw some chefs do things that made my skin crawl!


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

Oh I forgot to mention when I said going back to work.. I left my job working with special needs kids to stay home and raise my own two kids.


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## iconoclast (Aug 8, 2007)

http://www.cheftalk.com/forums/late-...rk-humour.html


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## bughut (Aug 18, 2007)

That was funny. Giada may be hot, but she leaves herself wide open to a very basic ridicule


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

That was too funny!


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## bughut (Aug 18, 2007)

Maybe Ina garten should consider some lip gloss... Is there a hamptons accent she could uber-culivate HeHe!


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## iconoclast (Aug 8, 2007)

i am tired of giada and her hair in the food. the worst part is the annoying forced accent on certain words... relax kiddo.


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

They should do a reality show of local and state health departments inspecting the procedures and the kitchens of the food network.


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## iconoclast (Aug 8, 2007)

lol, that would be awesome... i wonder who eats that food that is cross-contaminated and used for the shows?


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## thegardenguru (Dec 4, 2009)

I'm resurrecting this thread because I just read in USA Today that Food TV currently has its highest ratings ever. And the Fine Living Network plans to go with 24 hours of cooking shows next year.

Food TV admits to looking less for "actual cooking" and more to "personality" and "competition" (evidently something some of you think is valuable). They've "found the secret" to ratings and that's their direction.

Obviously, none of us is their market audience.

Also fyi, Bravo's "Top Chef" is their highest rated show. They have a couple new pseudo-cooking shows that have just aired that are doing well.

The Fox network -- with several Gordon ramsay shows -- is auditioning now for a new show for next year "Master Chef", a challenge for amateurs (restaurant chefs need not apply). Hosted/Managed by Gordon Ramsay.

Does anyone watch the saturday morning "marathon" of cooking shows on PBS?

Joe


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## shelta (Sep 16, 2009)

What the Food Network et al have discovered is the apparently permanent dumbing down of their TV audience and to appeal to the lowest common denominator translates to higher ratings...QED.
So what we're left with is programing designed for an audience with the attention span of a may fly who are living proof that the baseline for IQ has gone south at least 10 points and it ain't gonna change anytime soon.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Ya gotta really wonder, too, about that attention span.

Putting aside the formula they're now using, if you add it up there's probably not five hours of new programing in any particular week. It's all just repeats of repeats.

So not only is their audience not interested in real cooking, they, apparently, aren't aware of the shows they've just seen.

_Does anyone watch the saturday morning "marathon" of cooking shows on PBS?_

Joe, just FYI, there is no uniform programing on PBS, because each market is dependent on what the local affiliate chooses to purchase and air. F'rinstance, we only get Lidia and Jaques Pepin (and, on no particular schedule, America's Test Kitchen), which air Saturday afternoon. Saturday morning our "marathon" consists of shows dealing with needle arts.


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## thegardenguru (Dec 4, 2009)

_"LOL_ _and here we go with an early morning rant the day after Xmas!"_

Just in case it matters, I did not say this even though someone "quoted" me as such. I'm not sure how that process works.

Speaking of PBS (thanks KYH for the reminder about programming; sorry), maybe that's the future of educational cooking programs, if they are to be at all.

Who's the next Julia Child or Jacques Pepin? What do "real" chefs/cooks want?

Joe


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## caterchef (Oct 12, 2009)

The qualification for a food show today is: silly, fat, female,ridiculous and if you have all four you are a "shoe in" example : "Naughty Kitchen" the most ridiculous show ever aired,"Hells Kitchen" is a close "runner up" he is just ridiculous. The worst thing that has ever happened to Chefs profession was when they enrolled Julia Child in Le Cordon Bleu in Paris. We have been going downhill ever since. Even when PBS tried to right their wrong by airing her show with "The Great Chefs" series which was the only shows filmed in actual commericial kitchens it was too late. The ball started rolling and hasn't stopped yet. Jacques Pepin was the exception, I liked him but, how they ever paired him up with Julia is beyond me. As to the question "What do "real chefs watch?" Most of us don't get to watch the shows when they are aired,"we are working" we have to record them to watch later. I don't waste my time, the TV News reviews are bad enough. I believe "The Great Chefs Series" is still available on "youtube.com" I don't think the culinary schools teach what is needed. Oh, they teach plating, wine paring, recipe reading but basic cooking procedures like the importance of stocks, rouxs, basic sauces, time management and how to prep for 200 to 300 people is beyond their reach. That what we have to teach them once we get them.:thumb:


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Cater,

You wrote,  Wow. Wow twice. Wow squared.

You can't mean you find gender to be a handicap in the kitchen, or for a television cooking show host. But if not, what does it mean?

BDL


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

Simply & respectfully put, that statement is not true, nor fair to assume.

Also, Cater...I would think about your "wording" in your post. It can be seen as sexist and demeaning to woman & to folks who actually respect Julia Child's.


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## caterchef (Oct 12, 2009)

I have been working with women in the commerical kitchen for over 50 years. And they have never asked to butcher my meat, fillet my fish or make my soups and sauces and I never asked to make their salads, desserts or sandwiches. The only female cooks that I ever saw in a kitchen that knew how to cook was my mother and grandmother and they never used mearuring cups or measuring spoons either.When ever I have had the misfortune of working with them behind the range, someone always had to lift their case of Prime Ribs, the 50#sack of onions, the 50# box or potatoes or take an 80 qt. pot off the range. My mother and grandmother was great cooks but they never had to cook for hundreds of people either. I just saying there is a place for everyone and everyone in their place. There is a lot of heavy lifting going on and if they don't do it, they have to ask someone else to do it that probably has other things to do.:thumb:


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Paranthetically...

I had the honor to indirectly cook for Julia Child. Indirectly in the sense that the owner of the restaurant I worked at brought a "covered dish," chicken pot-pie, to a "pot-luck" party for Child given at a Sonoma winery in the seventies.

(_I know all those quotation marks are annoying; but if you knew the people involved, the passion and intensity of the fight with the staff when we learned the owner was planning on bringing a salad, researching Child's food preferences, and how much last-minute assembly and hysteria was involved, you'd have a hard time wrapping your head around associating covered-dish, pot-luck, chicken pie with them. And I wasn't invited, so you can't count this as name dropping._)

I'm pretty sure that although Child was very good working at her own speed in dinner party quantities or less, she was not the greatest cook to ever hold a spoon.

Heck, (_minority opinion warning_) _Mastering the Art_ isn't even at the top of my list for "learn to cook French" cookbooks. But it must be for most.

Whether or not Julia was the best author, she was certainly one of them. Whether or not she was the best TV cooking teacher, again she was certainly among the best. She was the first of the multimedia cooking superstars, and a pioneer in television generally and public television in particular.

I've never spoken with a professional chef doing top end French, International, Nouvelle, California, or New American cuisine who doesn't respect her contributions and acknowledge at least some debt.

People, pros among them, argue over whether she could or should be called "chef," since she never ran a restaurant kitchen. I've been around enough TV production to think that managing the kitchen staff for her show, working on the menus, and so on, was more than enough to qualify for her the title.

BDL


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## greg (Dec 8, 1999)

Well, no question about the wording in this post.

caterchef, just because something is outside the range of your direct experience doesn't mean that it does not exist. There are plenty of women in professional kitchens that hold their own and ask for no quarter. I've worked with plenty of them. Please refrain from from expressing the particular type of opinion you have been expressing thus far.

edited to add: If anyone, man or woman, thinks it's a good idea to take a full 80 qt stockpot off the range solo, I would say they are either more concerned with their macho image than they are about workplace safety, or they're flat-out stupid.


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## caterchef (Oct 12, 2009)

You can call a Doctor a Doctor, that dosen't mean he/she is a good Doctor.
Malpractice Insurance is some of the highest there is. They just don't have Malpractice Insurance for Chefs. They put an apron or chefs hat on and people expect them to be what they represent and they tend to expect everyone to be in the same category. I have seen a lot of Chefs refuse to wear a Chefs hat, I think they were ashamed of their profession and the way it has been degraded over the past years, they don't even like for you to call them "Chef." :thumb:


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## shipscook (Jan 14, 2007)

Thank you Greg, your last paragraph said it well. Not to get any more arguement started, but I have worked several ships with 1-200+ passengers and one dinner house with 250 covers a night. In the dinner house, never thought about asking for help with 50# of onions, meats etc. I was almost 30 years younger then!

First moved to Alaska worked in mining and logging camps serving 30 or so to 100+, Frieght comes in during the day when everyone but me and possibly a helper is in the woods. All is placed on dock by float plane or boat,
If it is hot outdoors, melts frozen stuff, or cold, freezes lettuce etc. and/or raining--boxes start to melt. So got to get it moved.

Have been a merchant marine for thirty years now, am 67yo, 5'4", 125 pounds. To have just a document to be on a commerical vessel requires a series of balance (tough) and dexterity tests, and several strength tests--lifting and carrying 50#, lifting 70# to waist height and placing on table, pushing and pulling a heavy sled about 100 yards, can't remember weight?

Again when I get stores, up to 10 or more pallets, everyone is busy, so once they use the pass method to get thing to the general area, I am on my own.

Even so the 80qt. stock pot would be something I would approach carefully--put a 20qt. pot along side and use a really big dipper to lighten up the biggun??

The only dumb thing I do is lift a roasting pan with two 20+# turkeys--it's hot, not balanced, and something I have to start taking a safer approach to??

Tooooo Long, sorry guys,
Nan
Wish you all a Safe, Successful, and Peaceful New Year!!!!!


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## jim berman (Oct 28, 1999)

Careful with that, _pal_. Come walk a mile in my shoes.

Oh, and by the way, some of the most accomplished cooks and chefs I have worked with (and for!) were female and will kick it on a busy Saturday night! Blanket assumptions are a dangerous territory.


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## caterchef (Oct 12, 2009)

I have had the misfortune of working with graduates and students and they all seem to be on an ego trip. They all want to do something like it shows them in the book or the way they did it at the last place they worked. And I have to tell them we don't use a book and their pay check isn't coming from the last place they worked. My father had a favorite saying" It's best to say you don't know than to open your mouth and prove it " or "to remove all doubt." If you have accomplished cooks and chefs from culinary schools up north male or female, they don't seem to migrate south. I learned more from Chefs that I respected by saying I didn't know so, I could find out how they did it and compare lt with the way I knew how. I couldn't do that if I were on a ego trip. "The Chef may not always be right but, he's always the Chef" or until he leaves. We have employers down south advertise " celebrity chefs need not apply" Who would you hire that is on the TV shows? I think I would hire Guy Fieri long enough to shave his head, stomp his sunglasses and drive his Camero in the bay before I fired him "ON-POINT. :thumb:


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## jim berman (Oct 28, 1999)

wow! Isn't that a blanket statement?! All? Everyone of them?!

Perhaps, then, they just sense your vibe.


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## jim berman (Oct 28, 1999)

Starting to get off topic, so time to lock this one up.


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