# rustproofing a spoon?



## dougl (May 30, 2016)

I have a large and very handy spoon that is evidently made of non-stainless steel. Over time, it rusts. I was wondering if there is a commercial coating I could apply to seal the metal, that is durable enough to withstand hot water and ideally dishwasher soap. I know that a coat of mineral oil would do the job, but I'd just need to apply it regularly. Now, I understand that fishermen have coatings and corrosion inhibitors that they use for knives and hooks. I'm wondering if I want to get that stuff in my food.


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## halb (May 25, 2015)

Other than Brillo every time you wash it about the only thing I would suggest is to have it plated with something like silver or nickel. But that would probably cost more than the spoon is worth.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

There is one option bakers use. Its a nonStick coating they use on buntrays and bread pans. Its pretty cheap, but the reglazers won't do just one piece. Time to buddy up with a local bakery the next time they get their bread and cake pans reglazed....

Hope this helps


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## dougl (May 30, 2016)

Well, it would be nice if there were a spray that would stick. I mean, I could even try regular enamel spray paint, but I dread the thought of it flaking off in my food, and who knows what chemicals leach out of it. But again, fisherfolk have spray-on hard glazes that allegedly resist even salt water for many years. Of course, they also spray on WD-40, which is probably the fishing equivalent of consumable mineral oil (yeah, it's used as an intestinal lubricant ...) but I'm not going to WD-40-ize my culinary creations.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Rub the spoon with a rag soaked in flaxseed oil. Put upside in a 500 degree oven for 1 hour. Let cool for a couple of hours and repeat the process six more times.


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## dougl (May 30, 2016)

Actually, I'm now aware that standard organic rustproofing for auto underbodies is linseed oil paint. (Linseed oil is, in fact, flaxseed.) I believe that this kind of paint is solvent-free. Gotta look into that. At first glance, the stuff ain't cheap, but I only need a few ccs of it.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Dougl said:


> (Linseed oil is, in fact, flaxseed.)


While this is true, make sure to use flaxseed oil because it is food grade. Linseed oil is extracted in part by using petroleum and is not food grade.


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

Linseed oil is used for the base of oil paints, both household and artist paints, typically the oil and a pigment.. Because of its long drying time, it is often treated with drying agents and other things to make it flow easier. There may also be mold inhibitors because being a natural product it can attract mold as it dries. There is raw linseed oil and boiled linseed oil, used for different purposes. Edible flaxseed is cold pressed, linseed oil is often pressed with solvents so not all are edible or interchangeable. Read the labels carefully. Flax and linseed come from the same plant but are not the same end product. 

     I learned much about this while researching paint manufacture when I bought my house. If you should decide to ask a  paint store about linseed oil, chances are they will argue for latex paints  and the clerk won't know much general knowledge of linseed or oil paints. After much research on my own, I found that politics played a huge role in the advancement of latex over oil paint. 

Since this is a food website, I'll stop there. 

So a flaxseed coating would seem to work but couldn't you just buy a new stainless spoon?


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Mash some plantain peels


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## dougl (May 30, 2016)

That's very interesting. Thank you. In fact, there are similar cautions about using linseed oil for treating cutting boards. Raw linseed oil is evidently OK for straight human consumption, but "boiled linseed oil" which includes driers, has added chemicals. That being said, FDA publishes guidelines on what it considers safe for food contact surfaces, and "drying oils" derived from linseed *are* explicitly permitted. I have to assume that linseed paint is such. Now, this is probably a $20 spoon, and I don't want to spend $50 waterproofing it. But it has a shape that I very much like, and don't see elsewhere.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

chefwriter said:


> So a flaxseed coating would seem to work but couldn't you just buy a new stainless spoon?


That's what I wanna know......

mimi


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Dougl said:


> That's very interesting. Thank you. In fact, there are similar cautions about using linseed oil for treating cutting boards. Raw linseed oil is evidently OK for straight human consumption, but "boiled linseed oil" which includes driers, has added chemicals. That being said, FDA publishes guidelines on what it considers safe for food contact surfaces, and "drying oils" derived from linseed *are* explicitly permitted. I have to assume that linseed paint is such. Now, this is probably a $20 spoon, and I don't want to spend $50 waterproofing it. But it has a shape that I very much like, and don't see elsewhere.


This may be stretching things a bit ....but what a government recommends is not always prudent.

Just ask the residents of Flint Michigan.

mimi


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Why not put the power of the forum to good use...

Post some pix and measurements.

We have a pretty good record of finding things.

mimi


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/healthy-origins-ultra-omega-organic-flax-oil/ID=prod6314629-product
[h1]Healthy Origins Ultra Omega Organic Flax Oil 16.0 oz. $8.99[/h1]
More than enough to accomplish the job with some left over to season cast iron or carbon steel pans. It is the bomb when it comes to seasoning pans. It is makes the hardest, longest lasting, most non-stick surface out there. (disclaimer: I am not affliiated with this product in any shape, form, or fashion, merely anal about flaxseed's prowess)


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Flax, aka linseed, has been around a loooong long time.  Linseed oil was/is used in the paint industry, as well as varnishes, and when mixed with ground up cork and compressed, gives us linoleum flooring.

The metallic driers used in blo (boiled linseed oil) tend to darken wood very quickly, so many furniture finishers tend to buy raw linseed oil, stick in in a crock pot, let it cook for a day, and use it. For furniture, it forms a film finish when can be reapplied very quickly and easily.  It's also cheap and pretty natural.

One disclaimer when working with any kind of linseed/flaxseed oil product:  Be carefull of how you dispose of the rags.  If the rag is balled up in an enclosed space, it will self combust.  Many fires have been started this way.


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## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

Is this, like a lucky spoon? Has sentimental value? Did it belong to your great-great-great grandmother? Does it have magical qualities like instantly makes food taste better? Does it have anti- gravity properties where it doesn't actually touch the food but moves it around with a force field?


chefwriter said:


> So a flaxseed coating would seem to work but couldn't you just buy a new stainless spoon?





flipflopgirl said:


> That's what I wanna know......
> 
> mimi


Me too.


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## dougl (May 30, 2016)

jake t buds said:


> Is this, like a lucky spoon? Has sentimental value? Did it belong to your great-great-great grandmother? Does it have magical qualities like instantly makes food taste better? Does it have anti- gravity properties where it doesn't actually touch the food but moves it around with a force field?
> 
> Me too.


Yes, all of the above. Wouldn't you want to keep such a spoon from rusting? Oh, it also talks to me.


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## dougl (May 30, 2016)

Well, that sure stopped the conversation!


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Dougl said:


> Oh, it also talks to me.


Didn't want to interrupt any conversation that might be going on. *:~) *


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

I've used flaxseed on pans, never on a spoon.    Seems to me a spoon gets used more, washed more and the oil wouldn't stay on so long.   I still like my approach forcing a patina with plantains or a commercial rust converter.  course your spoon will be black and blue but at least it won't rust!


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

Dougl said:


> That being said, FDA publishes guidelines on what it considers safe for food contact surfaces, and "drying oils" derived from linseed *are* explicitly permitted. I have to assume that linseed paint is such.


No you don't have to assume. Why would you? Drying oils derived from linseed and linseed oil paint are not the same thing. Do your research and due diligence. Read the labels carefully. Or pick another product entirely. Flaxseed oil sold and labeled as a consumable food product is safe and is what others here have recommended.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

I have a couple of pans from my Gma Van's kitchen (have to be at least 60 years old prolly much more) that have made a couple of trips thru the dishwasher (I know.....but was an accident) and the "shiny" stripped right off.

Is linseed what I need for the repair job?

Don't mean to hijack the thread ..... just hit me that this question was manna from heaven as the DD wants the pans.

mimi


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## dougl (May 30, 2016)

chefwriter said:


> No you don't have to assume. Why would you? Drying oils derived from linseed and linseed oil paint are not the same thing. Do your research and due diligence. Read the labels carefully. Or pick another product entirely. Flaxseed oil sold and labeled as a consumable food product is safe and is what others here have recommended.


Sounds good. I thought I did do research and due diligence. If you have better research, it would be helpful to hear about it here. Flaxseed oil sounds nice, but it doesn't obviously dry and produce a durable protective surface. Does it? I mean, I can use mineral oil as well, but I have to reapply every time I wash it.

Now, a few posts back. cheflayne gave a recipe for applying flaxseed oil repeatedly, along with a lot of heat. Does that, in fact, produce a durable protective surface?

Good question about what to use on pans. That might be a harder problem, though, because pans will have to take higher temperatures than spoons.


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

Follow Cheflaynes' instructions. Yes, the oil he recommends does provide the right surface when applied as he describes. Flaxseed oil intended for human consumption is the correct choice of oil to use. 

Despite or perhaps because of the common origin of the oils, you will note that products sold in the hardware stores are labeled linseed oil. 

Products sold in the food sections of supermarkets are labeled flaxseed oil. 

Flipflopgirl- Follow Cheflaynes' instructions for seasoning pans with flaxseed oil. 

Fwiw, I don't have better research. I just keep pursuing a more definitive understanding of what phrases mean. So when I hear "drying agents derived from linseed oil" and "linseed oil with drying agents" and "linseed oil paint"  or "boiled linseed oil" or "raw linseed oil" I keep researching until I understand what is meant by each phrase, why that particular phrase is used for that particular product and how that represents a difference from other products that sound or seem similar. Especially because I am interested in using a product for food and consumption, I never make assumptions.  

     In my refrigerator is a bottle of flaxseed oil I got from the health food coop.  In my basement paint storage area, I have containers with oil based house paint, raw linseed oil, boiled linseed oil, japan dryers and several other linseed oil products used with house paints.  In my front room I have a large quantity of artist oil paints made with linseed oil used with canvases  to make pictures with.

All may have a common origin, but I do not assume they are at all interchangeable.  I keep researching until I understand what makes them different.


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## dougl (May 30, 2016)

OK, thank you. That helps a lot. As long as it is a consumable food product, I guess it remains that way whatever application process one uses. Seven hours of baking at 500F is not that convenient, though.

MillionsKnives, did you want to tell us more about your plantain approach, or use of commercial rust converter? Now, rust converter converts the rust to magnetite, though it isn't obvious that magnetite as a coating is in any way durable. I'd rather not have rust in my food, and I'd rather not have magnetite in it either.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

chefwriter said:


> Fwiw, I don't have better research. I just keep pursuing a more definitive understanding of what phrases mean. So when I hear "drying agents derived from linseed oil" and "linseed oil with drying agents" and "linseed oil paint" or "boiled linseed oil" or "raw linseed oil" I keep researching until I understand what is meant by each phrase, why that particular phrase is used for that particular product and how that represents a difference from other products that sound or seem similar. Especially because I am interested in using a product for food and consumption, I never make assumptions.
> 
> All may have a common origin, but I do not assume they are at all interchangeable. I keep researching until I understand what makes them different.


This is what the manufacturers (by order of the EPA or FDA or CIA or whichever letter grouping regulates this product) should be required to have people READ and sign or watch a vid or maybe tattoo on the buyer's forehead before even walking into the store.

Would be way less tragic "accidents" IMO.

During my time as ED case manager, my most hated duty was to explain how the team worked hard and despite all the heroic measures taken it was just too little too late....(solvent aspiration pneumonia is a horrible way to go but kept that part to myself) and could you please sign this form (in triplicate) so your husband, lover, child, can be removed from life support (as the vent has blown a hole in the lungs as that is what shit like that does....eats away at human tissue).

All that and despite how many times the deceased made their wishes known, there would be no "Life Gift" (organ harvest) as the body was now poisoned from head (eyes and tissue grafts) to their toes (bones for various useful medical procedures).

mimi

Just don't get it sometimes....no guns in the home but cans and jars of deadly chemicals under the sinks are perfectly safe....


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Dougl said:


> Seven hours of baking at 500F is not that convenient, though.


My answer didn't take convenience into consideration because I didn't know that was one of the parameters.


> Originally Posted by *Dougl*
> 
> Flaxseed oil sounds nice, but it doesn't obviously dry and produce a durable protective surface. Does it? ..
> 
> Now, a few posts back. cheflayne gave a recipe for applying flaxseed oil repeatedly, along with a lot of heat. Does that, in fact, produce a durable protective surface?


http://vollrath.com/vollrathUnivers...ional-Cookware/Seasoning-Carbon-Steel-Pan.htm


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## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

Dougl said:


> Well, that sure stopped the conversation!


Sorry. I was just trying to add some humor. . .


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

Thanks Cheflayne. Excellent video. Reminds me I have some pans to take care of.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

I guess the thing about seasoning something like a pan is that you will build up more seasoning as you use it.  That doesn't happen naturally for a spoon.  So you'll be seasoning more often.

About the patina: All steel is an alloy with iron.  The iron exposed to the surface will go under oxidation reaction and you will end up either with rust Fe2O3 that keeps growing or the more stable black iron oxide patina Fe3O4.  It's unavoidable over time it will always oxidize one way or another.  Neither one is harmful to eat in the small (if any) quantities we are talking about here.


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## dougl (May 30, 2016)

cheflayne said:


> My answer didn't take convenience into consideration because I didn't know that was one of the parameters.
> 
> http://vollrath.com/vollrathUnivers...ional-Cookware/Seasoning-Carbon-Steel-Pan.htm


Um, convenience is ALWAYS a parameter. Always.

Thanks very much for that Volrath video. Excellent. I think that pretty much answers my question. Now, that seasoning process is for carbon steel. Interesting that it's a lot easier to season a black iron frypan. You don't need any special oil or involved activity to do that.

Yes, Millions, Fe3O4 is magnetite, and it's a much more stable coating. The "rust converter" stuff makes that out of rust, which is Fe2O3. But rusty food? Ick.


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## dougl (May 30, 2016)

Thanks. That video is perfect. Exactly what I need to know. Interesting that seasoning black iron frypans is a lot easier than seasoning carbon steel pans. For the former, you don't need any special oil or involved treatment.

And yes, Millions. Fe2O3 is rust. But no, I'm not going to tolerate rust in my food. Ick. Fe3O4 is magnetite, and is much more stable and durable, and that "rust converter" stuff allegedly converts the former into the latter. That rust converter isn't cheap. It's like $50/gallon. Wish I could buy an ounce of it.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

sure.  It tastes like iron!

But seriously that's why i told you about plantain peels.  The tannic acid in the peels does the same thing


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Also I bought this a few months ago 16 oz.


Used it on the bottom of my wok, edge of my shovel, mailbox, grill, and under the car. Plenty of uses


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

I dunno, a lot of those rust converters are noting more than oxalic acid.  It works well, but not the sort of thing you want around food.


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## dougl (May 30, 2016)

MillionsKnives said:


> Also I bought this a few months ago 16 oz.


Wanna sell me an ounce of that?


MillionsKnives said:


> But seriously that's why i told you about plantain peels. The tannic acid in the peels does the same thing


But seriously, you never said what plantain did. Still don't know how you use it. Why did you buy the Permatex deruster if you could use plantain? Though yes, your neighbors might look askance at you if you're down under your car rubbing the undercarriage with plantain peels.

Permatex deruster seems to be barium sulfate and 2-butoxyethanol according to the SDS. Not ground up plantain peel.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

foodpump said:


> I dunno, a lot of those rust converters are noting more than oxalic acid. It works well, but not the sort of thing you want around food.


Barkeepers friend is literally oxalic acid. I've used it on knives, just wash thoroughly when youre done... If you use stuff properly according to instructions, neutralize and, wash it away, I don't see what the problem is.


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## thanksftcrepes (Jun 2, 2016)

The instructions for polymerizing food safe flax oil with heat for carbon steel are right on. I also use very thin coats of canola oil to good effect.

The first knife set I bought was Old Hickory carbon steel with hickory wood handles in a wooden block that hangs on the wall. I have all but quit using it because of the maintenance it involves in favor of stainless blades. Because of the wood handles, heat polymerization is out, so both the blades and handles need periodic treatment with food grade mineral oil. I still pull out the second to largest one to cleave a full-sized watermelon or squash.

I can understand wanting to preserve an heirloom spoon that is pleasing to your purposes. As others have said, and the OP has expressed doubts about, do NOT paint it with anything other than food grade oil, which you may want to polymerize with heat treatments.

I was moved to join this site because of the more experienced members' kind, patient and civil treatment of the OP.

Hope to see you around.


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## dougl (May 30, 2016)

This is all very helpful. I think I know exactly what to do now, not just for my spoon, but for steel utensils in general. Thanks to everyone for their insights! By the way, I see that conveniently small and economical amounts of flax seed oil come in 1000mg gel caps.


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