# Thermador 30" single Wall Oven ME301ES



## deltadoc (Aug 15, 2004)

Well, the appliance installation guy finally showed up yesterday to install my new LG dishwasher and Thermador 30" single wall oven Model ME301ES.

Then he goes on and on and on and on about all the crummy Thermador products that he's had to replace. 2, 3 years, and they become "unfixable". Am I bummed! I've spent years planning on finally replacing the crummy Dacor 30" single wall oven, and I thought I finally had built up the nerve to try again. 15 years of crummy operation we put up with. This new Thermador doesn't even fit nicely into the rough wall opening. The "trim" around it doesn't reach all the way down either side, and there's about a 1" x 1/2" opening where you can see right into the hole in the wall.

It doesn't fit flat against the wall either and is held by only a screw near the top of the both sides, and none near the bottom. Installation guy says if he puts in another screw near the bottom of the trim to hold it against the wall the company will say its an "custom install" and won't honor the warranty.

Went on the web, and while I couldn't find out much about this particular model (which has electronic touch pad controls), the web was full of complaints about Thermador wall ovens that never worked right, and the electronic panel keeps going out over and over and over again.

I don't suppose anyone out there has had a good experience with this particular Model Thermador that could bring up my spirits a bit?

The guy also put several "knicks" into the ceramic tile floor just infront of the new dishwasher. He says he couldn't have possible put those 6-8 knicks int he floor, but I say, isn't it coincidental that in 15 years, my entire ceramic floor only has accumulated knicks in front of the dishwasher? I mean, when loading or unloading the dishwasher, the door opens and protects the very area where the knicks are. If there were to be knicks in the floor, one would assume they be by the island prep area, or in front of the cooking area, or in front of the sink. None in any of those places.

And instead of the $225 I was promised for install, it ended up costing me $360 because they supplied me insufficient information to dimension the rough opening for the Thermador (which required the electrical to be on the right side of the oven instead of where it was with the Dacor on the left side, and had to knock out a supporting 2x4 too. An extra $100 right there!

Same with the dishwasher. Promised $150 for install, but he charges an extra $35 for taking a 3' piece of copper out and putting in a 4' piece. Copper isn't that expensive and he still only had to make one more brass fitting connection to the water line than he would have otherwise.

And then they didn't take credit cards. Had to find my rusty old check book which we hardly ever use.

Somebody tell me some good news. It's my birthday tomorrow and this was supposed to be part of my gift to myself and my wife.

Tx friends!

doc


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## muskyhopeful (Jun 16, 2006)

Doc, sorry to hear about your installation problems. Was the oven installed as part of a remodel that included new cabinets, or was it replacing an oven that was already there?

I have a similar Thermador 30" wall oven. It appears they have changed their model numbers since I purchased mine 2 years ago, but it is very similar to yours. It is a 301 with different letters. There are a lot of horror stories on the web, but when I purchased mine I found some statistics that showed a lot of the talk of failures were hype. I can't remember where I found the study so I can't link, but I believe the numbers showed that Thermador ovens failed at a rate that was in line with similar high end ovens. I came to the conclusion that Thermador owners complain loudly so there appears to be more of them. The unit was on sale, and at the time about $1,400 cheaper than the WOLF I originally wanted.

I have had mine installed for 19 months and have no complaints. I love the hidden element, it heats quickly (very quickly in fast pre-heat), and has so many different cooking modes to choose from I have hardly used any. Looks pretty snappy, too. My kitchen was completely remodeled when I purchased it, so the cabinets were designed around the size of the oven, so I do not have the gaps you described.

I know I have not had mine for long, but so far, so good. I hope you enjoy yours.

Kevin

Stupid stockmarket.


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## deltadoc (Aug 15, 2004)

I completely remodeled the kitchen (turning the dining room into the kitchen and vice versa), and the wall oven went into a custom (i built it) area in the wall that faces on the other side the downstairs steps to the basement. It lined up perfectly too with the aisle space between the U-shaped countertop and the island.

Thanks for the uplifting remarks on your good experience with the Thermador.

I have great things to say about the Thermador Professional 48" gas cooktop I had installed at the time of the remodel (1992) and have only had to reinstall a new gas igniter for the grill. (it has 4 15k burners, 1 15k grill, and 1 15k griddle).

But then that was made for Thermador by DCS which was a great company back in the early 1990's.

Now, I hear that Bosch owns Thermador, and the installer said Bosch is the worst of the worst! He also dissed KA, GE, and others.

Contrary to my bad experience with Dacor, he said that most people have been happy with their Dacors.

doc


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## gstarr (Apr 26, 2008)

I've had a triple stack Thermador Masterpiece set-up since December, 2007. It is the MEMW301ES that has a standard microwave on top, the convection oven in the middle, and the warming drawer on bottom. I didn't want the convection microwave, as it is considerably more expensive, smaller cooking cavity, and I rarely used the convection on my old Amana microwave--as I don't use it for serious cooking, except for re-heating and steaming veggies. 

Anyway, I haven't had one problem with the oven and it performed as well as I could have hoped. Roasts, cookies, lasagna, and various other dishes have come out wonderfully using the convection. 

As Thermador and Gaggenau are now owned by Bosch/Siemens there are certain similarities between the products, except the all have their own different fluorishes, with Gaggenau followed by Thermador having the most. 

As Bosch is noted for their excellent dishwashers, I also bought the top of the line Thermador (DWHD94EP 9-Program stainles steel dishwasher), which is a Bosch with some Thermador fluorishes. It too has been excelllent and unbelievably quiet. When entertaining I can run the dishwasher with people hanging out in my very large kitchen and many have beenstunned that the dishwasher was running. 

I also bought the Thermador Freedom line of 30" stainless refrigerator and 24" freezer. I omitted the outside water and icemaker for two big reasons and other significant reasons. 1) that device is the most likely to go on the "fritz" than any other freezer device by a large margin. 2) the looks of the combination in stainless looks far superior sans exterior dispenser. 3) The Thermador freezer drops ice in a big tray that makes it super easy to scoop out with a glass (or scooper) much faster than waiting for the slow dropping of ice cubes. 4) unlike Subzero, the guts of the units are in the bottom and invisible and this makes it look far better, but it also raises the levels of the lowest shelves so you don't have to bend down. With most high end refrigerators/freezers there are open venting in the top making you have to bend down to get thigs on the lowest shelves. 

Maybe I've just been lucky, but everything has worked like a charm. I even bought a Scotsman icemaker for large gatherings, or those situations where you want crystal clear beautiful ice, which no high end freezer makes. 

Greg


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