# Escolar...???



## fryguy (Sep 2, 2009)

Just got some Escolar in. Looking for some words of of wisdom....Have'nt had much experience with it and was lookig for some menu ideas, sauces, preperations, whats works with this fish


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

you do know that escolar is referred to as the 'exlax' fish don't you? ingesting it causes a condition called 'keriorrhea'...google it...it ain't pretty!..a few symptoms are headache, nausea,cramping, diarrhea, orange oily droplets...lots of fun stuff! personally i wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole(fishing?)...can you send it back? at the very, very, very, very least you should warn or tell your customers what kind of fish it is...if you tell them the side effects who in their right mind would even order it though...your call, but i'd be calling my food rep or whoever you got it from.

joey


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## rexxar (Jan 22, 2010)

I personally love it seared

What i was told was that the max portion you should serve is 3oz after that people start getting gas and other side effects

funny story:

At my first kitchen job, we had an excess of fish by the end of saturday service. The chef hands me a hotel of various fish and tell me to batter them for staffmeal, as he walks away he says " the ones on the right side are escolar". At that time i had no idea what escolar did to people so i just fired em all and put them up. By the end of the night people were farting all over the place, including me. ( i think i ate like 4 of them)


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## fryguy (Sep 2, 2009)

Holly Molly thanks for the heads up.......I think I'm feeling a little sick and I have'nt even tried any yet......or will I EVER....


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

chef rexxar,

so are you saying that a little bit of poison is okay then?

joey

fryguy, escolar is used mainly in sushi rolls where the portions are small....still, arsenic is arsenic so why would you even want to serve escolar to a customer knowing that there is ANY possibility of harm....however small...as chefs,we need to be accountable for what we serve, period.....


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## fryguy (Sep 2, 2009)

you would think my fish guy would give me a heads up....just gave him a call for return....I can just see it now, all my old country club members making it half way to thier cars when.....OOOPPS.....hey honey I think I just crapped my pants


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## zoebisch (Apr 9, 2012)

I was curious about this fish (never heard of it) and then did some digging.  Apparently there are some very very gross side effects (google escolar and orange but please don't have eaten recently) which result from the waxy esters that the fish itself cannot metabolize but stores in it's flesh.  It's reported that some individuals are much more sensitive to this than others and it basically can work through the system quickly and sometimes violently.  It reminds me of that stuff they put on the market they were frying potato chips in where people got some nasty GI problems and I think they pulled it?  Also reminds me of the first time I harvested Jerusalem Artichoke (sunchoke) in the fall and ate a heaping mound of them.  Boy was I sorry! The Inulin is indigestible until it gets way down and then it you get all blown up from the bacteria in your colon munching on it.  Granted that's a bit different but somehow oddly the same.  The remedy seems to have been a spring harvest at the expense of sweetness I think some conversion goes on and you get less Inulin.  The rule of thumb I have seen mentioned here which can be found on the web is to keep portion sizes very small.  Sounds like a darn tasty fish...I wouldn't mind trying some Nigiri made with it...but personally I wouldn't have the guts to serve it just like I won't serve certain Boletus mushrooms to individuals because of random sensitivity.  I'll eat them and my family and close friends have passed the litmus test but I would not be willing to take a chance on the random.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

I wrote about this west coast fish a few monthes ago .. I call it the Exlax Fish as it woill make you really go. You are not supposed to eat over 5 or 6  ounces of this  Let The  Buyer Beware. Any time the fish guys find a real cheap fish, they market it.  At one time it was Tiapia, but it's to expensive now because they created a market for it.Now it's farm raised.


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## chefbuba (Feb 17, 2010)

Several years back when I was movie catering, we were working on the same street in LA as another crew, their caterer served escolar for lunch, sent about 30 people to the hospital via ambulance and was out of business shortly thereafter.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

lol, guys...no need to over react about escolar. Yes, it can give you diarrhea, but as long as you limit the portion size most people are fine. I hardly find it fitting to call feeding someone escolar "poison." Give me a break. 

You could do a nice appetizer with it (thus limiting the portion size)...treat it like you might tuna. We did a nice appetizer with it at a place I worked at, we did a quick citrus cure, then crusted it in black-pepper and fennel (crusted and seared on one side only, keeping most of the fish raw) and served it with a roasted lemon puree, pink peppercorns, verigated lemon supremes and fried parsley. It was excellent. 

If you truly don't feel comfortable serving it, then of course don't. Arsenic? Where is that idea coming from?


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

I used to serve Escolar as an app on my menu and it was my #1 app seller and I never had a complaint.  Rolled in Furykaki and seared, sliced and served with White Truffle Rissoto.


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

Someday said:


> lol, guys...no need to over react about escolar. Yes, it can give you diarrhea, but as long as you limit the portion size most people are fine. I hardly find it fitting to call feeding someone escolar "poison". Give me a break


"most people are fine"...interesting. give yourself a break or at least your loyal customers. while yes keriorrhea may only affect a certain percentage, do you really want to risk being in that percentile? have you yourself eaten escolar? experienced the ill effects first hand? i guarantee that if you have, your moral compass would not allow you to expose anyone else no matter how small the chance. assuming of course yours is intact and in good working order. the jury is out on this controversial fish but why in the world would/could you even entertain the thought of serving something that only 'may' cause symptoms in 'some' people. any inflammation in the body is not a good thing......yum...taste the danger?

joey

i do admit that the word 'poison' may be a bit strong, but it was used to push a point


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

durangojo said:


> "most people are fine"...interesting. give yourself a break or at least your loyal customers. while yes keriorrhea may only affect a certain percentage, do you really want to risk being in that percentile? have you yourself eaten escolar? experienced the ill effects first hand? i guarantee that if you have, your moral compass would not allow you to expose anyone else no matter how small the chance. assuming of course yours is intact and in good working order. the jury is out on this controversial fish but why in the world would/could you even entertain the thought of serving something that only 'may' cause symptoms in 'some' people. any inflammation in the body is not a good thing......yum...taste the danger?
> 
> joey
> 
> i do admit that the word 'poison' may be a bit strong, but it was used to push a point


Seriously? Peanuts kill people, are you going to start to preach about how we shouldnt serve them in our establisments? How about things like raw veggies that havent been treated, they can give you e. Coli, Salmonella...

I have eaten too much Escolar and while it wasnt fun it wasnt the end of the world. I have eaten bad cheese from a pizza parlor and ended up in the hospital with Salmonella poisoning, it didnt stop me from eating cheese. As chefs its our duty to INFORM our guests but its not our job to dictate to them what they can and cant eat.


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

so, DO you warn your customers of the 'possible' side effects of eating escolar? just as peanuts, peanut oil, and raw oysters to name a few, are disclosed, do you disclose? seems to me that all of a sudden or recently there is an increasing rise of people with eating, stomach or digestive issues/disorders....crohn's disease, ibs, celiac...yes, it certainly is our duty to inform our customers and to be accountable....amen brother!

joey


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## squirrelrj (Feb 18, 2011)

durangojo said:


> so, DO you warn your customers of the 'possible' side effects of eating escolar? just as peanuts, peanut oil, and raw oysters to name a few, are disclosed, do you disclose? seems to me that all of a sudden or recently there is an increasing rise of people with eating, stomach or digestive issues/disorders....crohn's disease, ibs, celiac...yes, it certainly is our duty to inform our customers and to be accountable....amen brother!
> 
> joey


So i'm to assume you warn or warned your customers about the possible side effects of every item on your menu? because they all pose a risk of getting someone sick, in reality.

We serve Escolar during the summer (7 oz portions, grilled) and haven't had a complaint, ever.


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## greenguy (Apr 12, 2010)

I've heard that a lot of sushi restaurants sell escolar under the name "White Tuna" or "Super White Tuna," although at other places white tuna just means albacore.  Still doesn't stop me from ordering it haha.


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## coastalwanderer (Apr 21, 2012)

With the current outbreak of illness due to ahi here in the US, I think that any possible effects of food we serve should be made clear to people at the outset.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

I agree 100%. If you don't in this day and age you leave yourself and your place wide ope to lawsuits.  No place  on its menu says "Eat at your own risk to eveything"


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

durangojo said:


> so, DO you warn your customers of the 'possible' side effects of eating escolar? just as peanuts, peanut oil, and raw oysters to name a few, are disclosed, do you disclose? seems to me that all of a sudden or recently there is an increasing rise of people with eating, stomach or digestive issues/disorders....crohn's disease, ibs, celiac...yes, it certainly is our duty to inform our customers and to be accountable....amen brother!
> 
> joey


Actually I did, on my menu was a warning about the effects of eating raw or undercooked fish. As to specifically calling out Escolar, if I did that I would have to have done it for EVERY thing on the menu.


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## snealy (May 13, 2012)

The undercooked or raw fish warning does not really relate to the "problem" with Escolar.


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## snealy (May 13, 2012)

I thought maybe my "bad experience" came from eating too much but it was only 3 pieces, definitely under 6oz. Maybe it was from not eating the rice that fell off the sushi that night so then I thought maybe the sushi chefs only serve Escolar as sushi, not sashimi. so I checked some sushi menus and see it server as sashimi. So what is the deal. I've been eating it for years and never had the "bad experience" before. What is the deal? You can't really put out a warning on menu that says "only eat 1 piece of Escolar, and make sure you eat all the rice, and maybe squeeze some lemon on it or drink some orange juice, or else you may experience an explosion of orange grease in your underpants..."


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

I have limited knowledge of this fish, but I find it hard to categorize food

containing an indigestible substance as toxic. Toxicity to me is systemic,

while indigestible sort of...shoots through your intestines without stopping.

And apparently the FDA retracted it's initial knee jerk reaction to label it

toxic, and in the end didn't know quite WHAT to call it. I would probably

describe it as an evacuator, or a purgative substance.

That all said, my belief is that we who legally provide meals to the public

are considered BY that public to be experts, and they are in effect trusting

us with thier personal health by eating what we place before them.

So all it takes is one guest with a hypersensitivity to whatever borderline

product we're  feeeding them, they get sick, make a claim and the inqueries

start: "Mr Foodguy of XYZ Catering, did you have foreknowledge

of this product's possible indigestible effects when you served it?

And did you specifically warn this unfortunate victim before you served her?"

One would have to answer yes and no respectively.

Hardly seems worth the risk to me.


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

snealy said:


> I thought maybe my "bad experience" came from eating too much but it was only 3 pieces, definitely under 6oz. Maybe it was from not eating the rice that fell off the sushi that night so then I thought maybe the sushi chefs only serve Escolar as sushi, not sashimi. so I checked some sushi menus and see it server as sashimi. So what is the deal. I've been eating it for years and never had the "bad experience" before. What is the deal? You can't really put out a warning on menu that says "only eat 1 piece of Escolar, and make sure you eat all the rice, and maybe squeeze some lemon on it or drink some orange juice, or else you may experience an explosion of orange grease in your underpants..."


the tail section of escolar has less flesh, hence less wax esters...maybe you've always gotten fish from the tail, you lucky devil.....another nifty 'side effect' of escolar is histamine poisoning if the fish isn't stored properly...so now, who ya gonna trust?

@meezenplaz, since you've brought up the word toxic again which i did apologize for my fire alarm usage of it in an earlier post, i still have the nagging question, "what do you call a fish that has toxins, if not toxic"? by definition wouldn't that make it so? from my viewpoint anything that happens to you anywhere in your body ends up a systemic battle... your entire system and all of your organs are affected as it must go through your liver and kidneys and bloodstream

@fryguy...curious chef as to what did you end up doing with the fish?

joey


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

I agree  100%   Better safe then sorry .   I WONT SERVE IT   There are plenty of other good fish choices available.  The blowfish used for sushi in japan is poison and has killed a few people  even though experts supposidly  de vein it. Things happen!


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

*seeing that Snealy has not yet arrived, Chef Meezenplaz takes the stand....* /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

First off, my apologies Chef Joey if my use of toxic seemed personal to you--

(I did note your earlier explanation) I was actually re-employing the word more

for the benefit of those readers who might still view this fish as toxic, as opposed

to being....potentially problematical, and was tossing in my viewpoint, which stemmed

from all of you having made me really THINK about this. For which I thank you. 

That stated, the difference I see with this particular fish is, unlike say, mercury

poisoning in fish, I can't find any reports of Escolar causing systemic reactions--

i.e., organs, blood, etc, just an indigestible goo from the fishes tissue that

sends your bowels off screaming for mercy. (I personally view a form of

reactionary diarrhea as more a local reaction than systemic) Once you're um, cleaned

out, though the experience may leave you put off to future tastings, far as I know

there's no lasting or accumulative damage. Unless I'm wrong there--if

so I would definitely like to know.

But either way, if something causes problems in a good percentage of people

in certain doses, I can't in good conscience serve it to paying diners.

But see this differs, at least to me, from allergies a (comparatively small)

population suffers from like Lactose, Gluten, Peanut etc.

Although...I do try to avoid including those too if posssible, just to eliminate

any risk I reasonably can.

--Meez


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

snealy said:


> The undercooked or raw fish warning does not really relate to the "problem" with Escolar.


When you are only serving at 2.5-3.0 oz portion then it's not a problem. I NEVER had a customer complain, call the health department or me saying they got sick from it and I served it on the menu as a regular item for over almost 3 years.


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

*shrugs* then I guess it's one of those, start-serving-it-and-slowly-build-up-confidence

type things. Interesting.


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

Meez,

all points well taken, touche', and thank you....

here goes all.......first a small background clip

back in my sailing as a living days in the caribbean the whole crew got ciguatera fish poisoning...look it up on your next day off with nothing to do...it ain't pretty. it was a horrible, horrible, horrible experience that lasted weeks(for one, a month), and it was a 'systemic' poisioning, not just confined to the intestinal tract, although that was certainly a major player.  chills, high fever, dizziness, nervous tremors, wacko unclear thinking, blurry vision and achy joints. there were times when dying would have been a blessing....so with that said, for me the lines are never blurred when it comes to serving questionable fish, or any food for that matter.  not to poke any bears here but i find it unconscionable and appalling that chefs anywhere can serve this fish because it is within some kind of 'safe' portion size. the term russian roulette comes to mind...but a 7 0z portion? oy...hope it's not cummulative like mercury.....what's next? pink slime is ok to serve if it's less than a 3 oz portion, or cooked beyond well done....double oy!

i am not only a good chef, i am also a good steward of my customers well being. i wouldn't be in business or have such a loyal following otherwise.  with all the crap and hormones and antibiotics in our foods it is part of my commitment to my customers and my profession to sift through and bring to the table the best possible and healthiest choices.

alrighty then...anyone's volley...

joey


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

durangojo said:


> ciguatera fish poisoning...look it up on your next day off with nothing to do...it ain't pretty.


I second that.

The eternal optimist was spinning the barrel on his revolver for his third time on Russian roulette. A passerby asked him how it was going, to which he replied "So far, so good!"

Lots of fish in the sea, not to mention lakes and rivers. Why choose escolar as opposed to say hiramasa?


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

That's exactly it, why take the chance in the first place. There are way too many other fish in the sea.

@ Joey : I once saw a woman sick from it (  scramboid/keriorrhea - whatever medical name you want to give it ) . This fish is known for its horrible side effects.

Petals.


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## zoebisch (Apr 9, 2012)

chefedb said:


> The blowfish used for sushi in japan is poison and has killed a few people even though experts supposidly de vein it. Things happen!


I think as well that even properly prepared Fugu has trace amounts of toxins in it. Interestingly I was just looking up some more info on it and according to some articles, apparently the Japanese can now raise toxin-free pufferfish but due to lingering fears the liver is still illegal in most places.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

I for one am not looking for problems or a law suit. I will not serve it nor even give it to my cats.


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

I hope as good stewards, responsible chef's and owners you all have stopped serving the following fish in your establishments. 

Tuna

Mahi

Wild King and Columbia River Salmon

Any and all Bill fish

Cod

Grouper, especially Strawberry

Snapper

Opah

Flounder

Halibut


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Your list is a little misleading due to brevity. Some of the fish on it, fall into the Monterey Bay Aquarium Seafood Watch List best choice category; depending upon method, country, and location. A more concise list can be found here http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/cr/cr_seafoodwatch/sfw_recommendations.aspx?c=ln


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

My list was not meant to be an end all list of fish that should be avoided, it was meant to say get off your high horse. MOST fish that are eaten and overlooked EVERY DAY in establishments are over fished and as a "GOOD STEWARD" of the ocean you shouldnt serve them. Here is the Green Peace list as well as the E Nature list.

http://www.treehugger.com/natural-s...enpeace-list-of-most-over-fished-species.html

http://www.enature.com/articles/detail.asp?storyID=509


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

Meep! Which is longer, the list we CAN serve, or the one we can't, shouldn't, or in-good-conscience wouldn't? /img/vbsmilies/smilies/confused.gif


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

thank you cheflayne for posting the website to the montereybay seafood watch.......it is a great site and one that i just keep on my desktop....chefhow i will look at the websites that you posted as well....right now i have to climb up the ladder of my trojan horse...boy,it's really high up here!

joey


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

durangojo said:


> thank you cheflayne for posting the website to the montereybay seafood watch.......it is a great site and one that i just keep on my desktop....chefhow i will look at the websites that you posted as well....right now i have to climb up the ladder of my trojan horse...boy,it's really high up here!
> 
> joey


I hope you get good wifi reception up there, I know I had to put a dedicated router in mine a while back...


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

ok, that's funny!....can you hear me now?

joey


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