# Special knife as gift for culinary student



## joez (May 16, 2013)

My daughter starts culinary school in the fall. I've been talking to a number of people and everyone seems to agree that a great high school graduation gift for a culinary student would be a good knife, as well as a bag. The school will provide a set of knives, but also from what I've heard they are not always the greatest.

What has been suggested to me is to get her a very high quality knife, one that will last for years and be her "go to knife". I was at a restaurant the other day and the chef suggested a really good knife for slicing vegetables. The one he showed me had two rows of dimples on it, which I guess makes things stick less.

So, my question to the group is - in your opinion, what knife would that be? Since this is a present, and I want it to last, I realize that I'm potentially looking at a couple hundred dollars. In the meantime, I will continue to browse the forums which seem to have a lot of good info, but for a newbie like me it's so much info it's making my head swim.


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## guamcook (Mar 21, 2013)

What he probably showed you was a santoku. A japanese style knife. Very good for slicing veggies. Wüsthof makes good high quality knives IMO.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

The purpose of the dimples is, indeed, to help food "release" from the side of the knife. The dimples themselves are also called "kullens." Knives which have them are termed, "hollow ground," "scalloped," "Granton," "kullenschiffen," and probably some other words which aren't jumping to mind. All of the terms except kullenschiffen are somewhat ambiguous.

Cutting to the chase, dimples work fairly well if they're well executed -- but they usually aren't. My recommendation is that you forget about them as a "professional" or even a positive feature in a go-to knife.

Why Guam guessed that the knife you were shown is a santoku is beyond me. Some santokus have dimples, most don't; and the same can be said about several other profiles including chef's knives (aka gyuto) and slicers.

FWIW, a "santoku" is a sort of cross between a European chef's knife and a "nakiri" developed by Japanese makers about seventy years ago to be a do-it-all knife for someone with no knife skills who works on a very small board. The distinctive features of a santoku are height running all the way to a steeply dropped tip, a fairly flat profile, and a relatively short overall length.

It's modern popularity is a little bit wider than "Japanese housewife," and some western pros like to use them. But for most professionals, budding professionals and knife-skills teachers -- not a great choice.

The best single, school and work knife profile for your daughter will be a chef's knife of some sort. Which particular knife is going to largely depend on several things including how much you're willing to spend. The most popular length, especially among women is 8". However, for a lot of reasons, the ~10" range (240cm to 270cm) is better.

The least expensive, decent chef's knives cost about $30, but you can keep spending money to get ever better performance, fit and finish, edge properties, etc., up to about $350.

The near $100 price range has several knives which represent entry-level to good knives; and the range just above that, going from $130 to $165 has some solid knives. At the next level you start to find the "life time" knives you were talking about. Before buying anything that expensive, you might want to consider that in the school and professional kitchen environment knives are frequently abused, lost and stolen.

All things considered, I think you're best choosing a knife oriented towards all-around performance rather than one which gives up too much to enhance any particular aspect -- even edge properties; it should be durable rather than extremely light weight; and it should be stainless.

The least expensive, but still good chef's knife you can buy is a "Forschner by Victorinox" from either their Rosewood or Fibrox series (the only difference is the handle). It's serviceable. Maybe not what you're looking for though.

Still under a hundred, but with significantly more performance:

Fujiwara FKM;
Richmond Artifex; and
Tojiro DP
If you want to talk better knives, we can; but I can't talk about every knife on the market, you'll have to come up with some guide lines. The one thing I'm going to say for now is no Global, no Shun -- no matter who recommends them to you. Unfortunately, the knife selections at BB&B, SLT, and WS are not very good. If you're looking for high-value/high-performance knives you'll probably end up buying from the internet without any opportunity to "test" the knives in a retail store. Don't worry; it works out well.

The most important part of knife skills and knife use is sharpness. Professionals should be able to sharpen their own knives because most services not only do a lousy job, but hold on to the knife for a few days while they're doing it. As part of your gift, consider getting your daughter a really good sharpening system along with a suitable honing rod.

BDL


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## joez (May 16, 2013)

Thanks BDL for the detailed response!

Yes, let's talk better knives. You are correct, I would probably buy this from the internet, and even if I bought it in person then best assessment I could probably make is whether the knife was sharp or not.

How about this. Name the top two knives (or even just one) that you would buy if you could only buy one knife to bring to a desert island. I guess that's a strange way to think about it but I think you get the point - a knife you would have forever. With a budget of no more than $300.

If I'm just going to get her a knife that is the same quality as the ones they will give her in class, then it kind of defeats the purpose of what I'm trying to do. For example, when I was talking to that one chef, he pulled out one knife (by "MAC" I think) and told me he had had that knife for like 10 years and still used it on a regular basis.


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## rdm magic (Apr 16, 2012)

What will your daughter be mostly using the knife for?

Will she be okay with carbon, or only stainless? Semi stainless?

What about the all important sharpening?

The Kono HD comes in at less than 300$. If I were buying a 'first' knife at the moment though, I'd probably get a sweden series from Misono. Especially if I was looking for a 210mm. They are so damn cheap right now its criminal not to get one. If you can handle carbon, and aren't a leftie that is.


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## knifewhiz (May 17, 2013)

JoeZ check out Shun knives. They are sharp and they last forever. For $300.00 you can buy her a four piece student set that contains all of the starter knives a culinary student should have. I have a combination of both Japanese and Sabatier French carbon steel knives. Every chef should have at least one french carbon steel knife


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## rdm magic (Apr 16, 2012)

boar_d_laze said:


> The one thing I'm going to say for now is no Global, no Shun -- no matter who recommends them to you.


Not to paraphrase or anything..


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## dillbert (Jul 2, 2008)

whot a heap of happy horse pucky.

couple of things to think about:

(a) anything upscale bought for a student used in a student setting is about 275% likely to get stolen.

buying the student a $600 knife when everyone else in the class has "school issued" $30 knife,,, there's a question here?

(b) "sharp" (out of the box) is the absolute dumbest criteria you can use.  _any_ knife that is used (and some are not used) will become dull and need sharpening.  perhaps with the exception of ceramic blades - which will chip and/or break before they get done.

(c)  conveyed descriptions of knife shapes / profiles is astronomically ^5th power screwed up.  no flipping further intelligent comment can be made.

for a culinary student, a 8" chef, a flatter santoku style, a paring/utility, a boning knife and a steel would in my 5 decades of experience be most adequate.  a doable roll up bag, a requirement. 

he/she is a _student_ - he/she danged well be exposed to and expected to deal with situations where "one knife does it all" is NOT reality.

stainless; some students tend to forget the carbon steel maintenance issue when they're on their way out the door.

and a sharpening setup.  yeah, it's a requirement, not a special thing.  actually more important that any specific knife type, brand, size or shape.  the Edge-Pro system is old school, rather fool proof, and a decent bang for the buck.  yeah, got that system, been working well for a few centuries.


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## andre s (Feb 23, 2013)

JoeZ
FWIW, I think you have a good gift idea. I premise the following with the understanding that I've never attended culinary school. But, i keep hearing that stuff gets stolen in those places quite often. And the same (to a lesser extent?) goes for a "professional" kitchen. That being said, it sounds like some people keep a home set independent from a work set. And, if i'm reading your posts correctly, you're expecting your daughter to have a set as suggested/prescribed by the school. That set's usually so-so and stainless. 
Maybe your gift falls into the category of home knives. It might let your daughter enjoy different knives without the pressure of school or work. And, in that case, i would suggest letting her experiment with carbon steel. Which opens it up for great knives (300$=1 forever knife, no problem).
If my assumptions above are correct, these are my suggestions:
-(1) 240 konosuke gyuto (HD) {you'll find that many people on the forums swear by these, starting to be hard to find they're in such demand}
or;
-(1) 240 gesshin ginga gyuto (my vote for white #2 for reasons mentioned above, but their stainless sounds awesome also)
or...2 knife option;
- (1) 210 misono swedish gyuto + (1) 270 misono swedish sujihiki {would run you just over 300 together}

I would lean towards the misono option. Maybe wouldnt be the very best knife she'll ever use but could easily be with a "forever". Those are 2 hot knives. Especially the suji. I dont care for matching knives, but may be nice as a gift. As rdm mentioned, the 210 gyuto is silly inexpensive right now...
As with all carbons, expect that your gift not be shiny very long. Many of us dont mind the (or even prefer) patina. And...a good knife is a well used knife.
Sharpening is the most important part of having sharp knives but dont let it stop you from buying your thoughtful gift. Worst case scenario, she/you get them professionally sharpened until that can of worms gets sorted out. "Analysis paralysis" can hinder quite a bit. But, when you're ready for it, there are some true experts on this forum and others. And you already got BDL's attention...so, 

If my assumptions (way, way) above are incorrect, and you're buying for school, i vote for richmond artifex as mentioned by BDL. 

...my 2 cents

Ps i'd bring a CCK butcher's knife on a desert island...just in case


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

The knives I'd choose for myself aren't the best knives for your daughter. But, I'm not going to duck the question. If I were restricted to _two knives for desert island purposes_, I'd want a chef's and a petty, both of them having good feel on the board, in the cut, and on the stones; comfortable handles; capable of taking an excellent edge and holding it well; able to be maintained on a rod hone; and generally robust. In addition, I'd want the chef's to not only be French profiled, but as Sabatier-like as possible. 

*Chef's*: Richmond 52100 Ultimatum gyuto; and
*Petty*: TI Sabatier _Nogent_ 6" slicer.
I own, use and love both of those knives. But they don't replace my ultra-thin Konosuke lasers. Most of the time, I'd rather use one of the Konos.

My daughter is an ardent cook. I bought her a MAC Pro 9-1/2" chef's knife; a MAC Pro 6" utility knife; and a _Victorinox by Forschner_ Rosewood 10-1/4" bread knife. If you're going to spend in the neighborhood of $300 for a stainless, mass-produced, western-handled, chef's and petty, the MAC Pro and Masamoto VG lines are two lines which you should very strongly consider.

FWIW, she could get away with sharpening MAC Pros or Masamoto VGs with a fairly inexpensive and easy to use Chef's Choice electric.

The AEB-L Richmond Ultimatum might be a good choice for your daughter, because it is indeed very robust for a 7oz knife; takes a great edge easily; and holds it well. But it's got a Japanese style handle; is balanced very forward; and has a lot of other stuff going on that many people, especially those just starting out, won't like. On top of that, it's not the world's best looking knife and costs $200 ($250 in Bohler 390, which has incredible edge holding properties but is something of a PITA to sharpen).

Do we want to discuss Japanese handled knives, or stick with western handles?

_A Few Other notes:_

*No carbon*. Take it from someone who owns a ton of carbon knives, uses them regularly, and loves them. At its best carbon (as opposed to stainless) is needy and cranky, a bad idea for anyone who doesn't already know (s)he wants it. While the Misono Sweden is an otherwise great knife, it's particularly reactive. The Fujiwara FKH -- an inexpensive but otherwise pedestrian knife -- is not only particularly reactive but is reactive in particularly obnoxious ways;

*No santouks. No short chef's knives.* A santoku is not a good choice for a culinary student, unless she already knows she wants it. Get a 240mm or 10" chef's knife. On top of the unmatched versatility, it's the size and shape the teachers will use for lessons. And, with a proper grip and a little practice, a 10" knife is as easy to use as an 8" and a helluva lot more productive;

*No lasers.* Lasers (a kind of very thin and flexible knife), specifically including Konosuke HD, Konosuke HH, and Gesshin Ginga would be a lousy knife for a culintary student. They require heavy-duty backups; and either a high enough level of knife skills to keep the knife square in the cut or the time to take her time -- things she lacks;

*Perspective.* If you decide to buy a petty, don't go overboard. Petty knives take a ton of abuse, get something with a big enough handle to use comfortably, easy to sharpen, and easy to throw away when it gets used up, because -- unless you have a lot of little knives which you use for petty tasks like cutting string, opening plastic packages, trimming feather bones, etc. -- it will. MAC, Masamoto and similar knives are very nice; but a Richmond Artifex takes as good an edge, holds it better, is as useful, and a lot less heartbreak when finally sharpened down to nothing;

*Sharpening.* Knives are sexy, sharpening isn't. But... if you want to make a really good knife gift, you have to at least consider sharpening. And, given the circumstances, probably have to pay the freight as well. If you're going to use good knives, you NEED appropriate sharpening equipment. Appropriate means something she can and will use, even more than it means potential edge quality.
BDL


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

I am not on a deserted island, but for purpose of your question about a knife I could be as I use one knife for about 98% (or more) of my tasks as a working professional chef. It is a MAC Professional Series10 3/4" Chef's Knife, model MBK - 110. I fully expect 10 years of service out of the knife as I got that out of my last one, which by the way, is now enjoying semi-retirement at home and still a great knife.


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## vic cardenas (Nov 11, 2012)

I think a Fujiwara FKM would make a great school knife. It would be better than 99% of the knives in the room. Including the ever-present Globals. And it wouldn't cost very much to replace it if it did get stolen. Then she can move on to a nicer knife when she's actually ready for it and out of school.


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## jlambert (May 6, 2013)

I would suggest that you not purchase a knife off of the internet where your daughter cannot hold it.  Others have suggested several brands of knives, and I'm sure that they are all great for them.  However, as a female chef I know that what feels good in my hand doesn't work for someone else.  I can't stand the feel of a Shun knife, it hits the heel of my hand in a way that quickly becomes painful.  Find a good knife store, even if it is just BB&B and have her hoist a few different models.  It could make the difference between a gift that while nice, doesn't get used and a great knife that she keeps forever.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

> I'm afraid the value of holding a knife in one's hand is slightly overrated. When knives are concerned the first impression is often a wrong one. It says more about what you're used to than about the new knife's properties.


The only way to improve this statement is to replace the word "slightly" with the word *HUGELY* in over-sized, under-lined, bold all-caps. Otherwise, +1. +1 indeed.

BDL


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## whjeffcoat (May 20, 2013)

i have to agree with jlambert, take her to a good knife store or chefs wharehouse and see what style feels the best in her handsthen later take what you have learned from watching her in the store and find the best you can be it on-line or in a store. i am a culinary student and i have been a line cook for 13 yrs and I have a couple of knives that hardly get used because they just dont fit right in my hands be it because of weight, balance, or style.I'm sure as your buing a very special gift you will want it to be one that she will use instead of one that just lays in her kit or in kitchen draw.best of luck


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

I personally never buy a chef's knife for work unless it spends at least 1/2 hour in my hand before any outlay of cash. Also if during that 1/2 hour, I can spend a fair amount of the time cutting vegetables, potatoes, etc that is a bonus.

Bottom line JoeZ, the knife is going to be a gift from the heart and because you are proud of your daughter, therefore how can you go wrong? Even having just said that, buying a knife for someone else is kind of like buying shoes as a gift, a crap shoot at best. Only the recipient will know whether it truly fits or not.


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## dillbert (Jul 2, 2008)

I'm missing something

"Some handles just don't work for some people. "
http://www.cheftalk.com/t/68469/ugh...x-fibrox-and-be-done-with-this/60#post_408845

"The thing about handles is that there are few which are generally acknowledged as "great." A big part of handle comfort just depends on how the handle hits your hand. There's a large amount of variation and it's not all grip either. "
http://www.cheftalk.com/t/68469/ugh...x-fibrox-and-be-done-with-this/30#post_407988

"The Hiromoto AS has a lot of very loyal fans. I'm not one. I bought four of the yo style (2 gyuto, suji, petty) a long time ago with the idea of replacing my old French carbon knives as daily users; didn't like the Hiros at all, and got rid of them as soon as possible.
The handles were uncomfortable because they were too narrow. I have large hands and a versatile, professionally trained grip. My wife's hands are small, her grip is naive. Both of us hated the Hiro's handles. "
http://www.cheftalk.com/t/75456/looking-for-some-japanese-steel#post_425856

"So... your price range has moved up to the first really good knife level. I've already suggested four "better" knives, and don't want to get more specific until you help me narrow the field a little. The next questions are:
Japanese or Western handle?
http://www.cheftalk.com/t/75456/looking-for-some-japanese-steel#post_425737

"If you're seriously thinking about a MAC Pro, you should also consider a Masamoto VG for its better profile. The Masamoto handles better than either the CN or MAC. "
http://www.cheftalk.com/t/51526/mac-pro-vs-mac-ultimate#post_410275


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## chefdado (May 18, 2013)

Check out chefknovestogo.com 
It is a great website with great customer services, and knowledge. 
A MAC knife would 8" professional is ago of start. Light weight, and razor sharp.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

I'm agreeing with what _*cheflayne *_just said. I'm not getting your point _*Dillbert*_. I think the point of getting a chef's knife and a petty is good. I wish _*BDL*_ didn't hate santokus so much. I like them ... I like hollow-ground blades too. I agree that a culinary _student_ doesn't really need an expensive present in school. I agree with that _gift from the heart_ idea; the _shoe_ part too.

I don't think that any student is gonna be any better in school with any different set of knives than those that they get in school. Use what they give you and learn the profession before you go out and buy all kinds of really nice special stuff. I suggest a much more usable gift. A nice utility carry bag _(a carpenter's bag)_, with a knife roll to go with. CKTG has a beautiful knife roll on sale for $20. You can't go wrong.

That's just what's I'm thinking, for whatever it's worth, as both an experienced educator and chef. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.





  








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Iceman


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May 21, 2013











  








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Iceman


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May 21, 2013


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

Never under estimate the value of a gift certificate.

Buying a knife for some one else unless you know exactly what they want = Bad Idea.

Buying high end knives for a new culinary student = Bad Idea.

Let your daughter use the knives the school provides. They provide them for a reason.

Save the knife gifts until she can tell you exactly what she wants.

If you are seeing a disparity in advice here that's beacause there's a disparity of actual work time as a professional Chef in this thread. Those with years of experience know that buying a knife you haven't handled is not the greatest idea UNLESS you can return it if you don't like it.

That's often not possible with gifts as no one want to offend.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

I've got nothing against santokus for other people. Whatever works for you is jake with me. Still, a santoku probably isn't the first choice as a go-to for a culinary student.

It would be helpful if Dilbert would articulate his point. Is it that not all knives have universally beloved handles? And,

MAC Pro are indeed wonderful knives.
*Buying Online on the Basis of Advice:*

For whatever reasons, my opinion seems to matter to people. That it does, creates a responsibility; the essence of which is helping those people learn enough to develop a rational and informed framework for making their own choices. That can be a little bit frustrating for some people... "Just tell me what to buy;" but it's not what I'm about. It doesn't matter to me if someone buys a knife I recommend; if they learned something as a result of our conversation my goal is met. Sometimes, that means nothing more than assisting someone to identify their own preferences.

When it comes to evaluating online knife advice, whether given by me, given by someone else, given here, or given anywhere else -- treat it as you would any internet advice. Be choosy. 

Knives are all about sharpness. Sharpness is all about sharpening;
If there's some other reason a particular knife might pose some problems, I'll say so and give specific reasons;

If I give an opinion about a knife I haven't used AND sharpened, I'll say so, and give the basis for the opinion;
If I like an unusual knife -- like the Ultimatum -- or dislike a popular knife (Hiromoto AS, Shun Classic, Wusthof Classic, e.g.), or hold any other "controversial" opinion (by way of example, a dislike of san-mai), I'll note that it's an individual opinion and give specific reasons;
If you have questions, ask; and

For years, I almost always made MAC Pro my first recommendation for people looking for their first, really good knife. It's still a good recommendation, but not as much "one size fits all" as it used to be. It's a lot more important to me to begin to "narrow the field," which helps the person seeking advice gain some understanding of their own priorities as much as it saves me the headache of discussing a lot of irrelevant knives. Hard to believe, but even I get bored after a certain amount of repetition.
_Experience Buying Chef's Knives for myself_:

Your choices should be about the gift you -- a proud papa -- want to give to your daughter, and no about me at all. But personal history is becoming a _leit motif_ in this thread. In the hope that it will add some context, here goes:

My first, real chef's knife (1973), a 10" K-Sabatier carbon was an imposed choice by the chef at my first restaurant job, I got it free, as a castoff by a cousin who'd moved on to Henckels stainless. My second, real chef's knife, a 10" "Canadian" carbon Sabatier, was a gift from the same chef. My third, a Henckels Four Star I think (1975), I bought for myself, after a lot of demo and tryout; it was one of two chef's knives I ever bought and ended up disliking -- went back to the Sabs. My fourth, purchased from Amazon in 1979 was another 10" carbon Sabatier, bought to replace the first knife, which got used up. Yet another K-Sab au carbone for fifth, bought in 2001. My sixth was actually a pair of knives; a 240 and a 270mm Hiromoto AS, bought in 2005 from JCK; didn't like them for a lot of reasons. My seventh was another carbon Sab, a short Nogent. The eighth was a 270mm Konosuke HD bought online at CKtG in 2009; although I did have the opportunity to wave Jon Broida's around in a parking lot, plus the benefit of his opinion. The ninth was yet another 10" K-Sabatier au carbone (which is really my wife's). Tenth is a Richmond Ultiatum 52100, bought in fall 2012. The last chef's knife I got was an 8" Ryusen Bu-ry-zen, given by a student "in appreciation" for a tutorial I gave; I happen to know that it was actually a "re-gift" of a knife he didn't like; it's a good knife, but not right for me.

So, let's see. Twelve knives from eleven transactions. Ten of the transactions were gifts or mail-order and didn't involve any try outs. Eight of those were successful, one was unsuccessful and one (the re-gift) was a matter of me accepting something I knew I didn't want because it would have been impolite to refuse -- too complicated... Call it 8 for 9, 89% good.

On the other hand, the one time I bought in a store after an actual try-out -- and let's not forget that I was cooking pro at the time -- I fell victim to all the usual in-store errors and chose something too heavy, too shiny, and without properly investigating its sharpening properties. It took me three catering jobs to realize I'd screwed up, and another couple after that before surmounting the embarrassment of human fallibility, admit the error, and go back to the Sabs.

My current personal knife preferences evolved from knives chosen by the chef who taught me to use a knife. But let's not over-generalize on the basis of my experience and confuse me with you (or your daughter).

_Experience Buying Chef's Knives For Others_:

Since forever, I've only given MAC Pro.

*Morals of the Story So Far: *

Most of the useful information you're going to find out with an in-store trial will involve the handle;
There are quite a few knives with very comfortable, non-controversial handles; and a few knives which can be iffy -- even for people with good grips. If there's anything negative about a handle that I've ever experienced -- expressly including Hiromoto and Global -- or, for that matter, even heard or read about but never tried personally, I'll (wait for it) say so and give specific reasons.
People who evaluate knives in-store place too much emphasis on "heft," and appearance, and not emphasis on sharpening qualities, aspects of comfort which can only be felt over time, and a bunch of other important things;
Unless you have a very good idea of what you're doing, an in-store trial won't be of much benefit;
Longer knives are more productive than shorter knives, but require slightly more skill. Fortunately, culinary school is a great place to learn knife skills.
By far, the most important thing, about knives is sharpness; and
By far, the most important thing about sharpness is sharpening.
BDL


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## mortenhj (Mar 30, 2013)

Perhaps you should consider refraining from your ad hominem approach and try to esablish your own point


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## vic cardenas (Nov 11, 2012)

boar_d_laze said:


> My fourth, purchased from Amazon in 1979


Huh?


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Vic,

Confused the bad grammar?

My fourth chef's knife was yet another 10" K-Sabatier au carbone.  It was made OEM by K-Sab, imported to wholesaled in the US by an outfit called "Cuisine de France," and labeled with their logo.  Cuisine de France is no longer in existence, was located in Connecticut and sold a lot of Sabatier knives and other French cookware through Amazon and other retailers. 

BDL


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## les3547 (Jun 16, 2010)

boar_d_laze said:


> Vic,
> 
> Confused the bad grammar?
> 
> ...


I think it's that you said you bought it at Amazon, which didn't exist in 1979.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Ah.  '79 was a typo.  '89.  Sorry for the confusion.

BDL


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## les3547 (Jun 16, 2010)

boar_d_laze said:


> Ah. '79 was a typo. '89. Sorry for the confusion.
> 
> BDL


Lol . . . I think you might have misremembered about Amazon being where you bought it. It didn't exist until 1994, and then they just sold books for a few years. I know I've bought so much from Amazon over the last few years it does seem like several decades. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif


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## vic cardenas (Nov 11, 2012)

Nvn... Yes, Amazon in 1979 sounded a little off kilter to me. 89? Just as much.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

I bought it to replace an older one which had whittled down to nothing, shortly after moving from our old house in Venice to one in MDR in '88.  I'm sure that it was Cuisine de France, and remember it as being purchased online.  But if Amazon didn't exist... from where?  It's possible I found it in a catalog.  

Hard to remember life at the dawn of the e-tail age.  There's another hazy section of my memory extending from 1965 to around 1979.   

BDL


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## joelzer0 (May 30, 2013)

Gifting a knife is to say goodbye for ever. It is considered bad luck. The idea that the school gives you crapy knives is incorrect. Most students these days get a set of messermister. These are good quality but students aren't shown to care for them. Perhaps a book on keeping your knife sharp. With indepth knowledge of how to care for your blade even a dexter can out perform a masamoto. Or the book every student wishes they had and will make them a star student. The 'modernist cuisine' 450us six volume great investment. 
If you do decide after all to give your novice an advanced blade just go to korin.com and buy what you can afford. Tell them what you want it for and they will help you select.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

WOW.


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## franzb69 (Jul 9, 2012)

These are good quality but students aren't shown to care for them. - even most professional cooks do not know how to care for their own knives. much less sharpen them.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

Joelzer0 said:


> Gifting a knife is to say goodbye for ever. It is considered bad luck.


If your going to be superstitious it's only bad luck to give a knife if the recipient doesn't give a coin to the person giving the knife to them.

In some cultures giving a knife is a sign of respect.

Setting that aside I've used Dexter's for years and used them for gifts to my cooks many times. They work just fine but the notion they will "out perform" a Masamoto is more than a bit of a stretch.

Dave


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## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

boar_d_laze said:


> I've got nothing against santokus for other people. Whatever works for you is *jake* with me.


Huh?? Leave me out of this..../img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

btw. I own a santoku and I like it. I can do almost everything with it, but a bigger knife is more versatile.

I agree with DuckFat and IceMan. Knives are very personal. Gift certificates work great, and the knives students get at school will suffice until they get experience and know what they want. They will also see other chefs at work and get another round of opinion and commentary from people they interact with.

My 2 cents.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Joel,

_First: _

+1 with Duckfat.

_Second:_

If you're trying to say that a sharp Dexter will out perform a dull Masamoto... well, yes. Any sharp knife will out perform any dull one. If you're trying to say that someone who knows how to sharpen can get the same edge geometry, edge taking and edge holding out of a Dexter Sani, Messermeister Elite (crap by the way), or even a Victorinox as a Masamoto VG, that's absurd.

Any dull knife is a dull knife and all dull knives are pretty much equal. But after that, not so much. And by the way, that's the reason I tried to get the OP -- who seems to have lost interest in the thread, bless his heart -- to recognize the need for sharpening.

_Third:_

The OP, proud father of a young woman beginning her professional culinary education, decided to give his daughter a gift of knives. He asked for advice on which knife. Since he didn't ask what would make a better gift, it would have been presumptuous to have suggested something else.

_Fourth and Finally:_

Why Korin? Why not Chef Knives to Go, Epicurean Edge, or Japanese Knife Imports for instance? Actually, considering that Korin is more than likely to recommend one of their house-brand Togiharu lines for student use (which aren't very good), I'd say Korin is NOT a good place for advice.

BDL


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## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

boar_d_laze said:


> _Third:_
> 
> The OP, proud father of a young woman beginning her professional culinary education, decided to give his daughter a gift of knives. He asked for advice on which knife. Since he didn't ask what would make a better gift, it would have been presumptuous to have suggested something else.


Quite the contrary. Sometimes the best advice isn't what you want to hear. Forcing the issue and getting his daughter something she doesn't want or doesn't like won't do him or her any favors. If the spectrum of like or dislike were much larger, then I could see suggesting something specific. But using knives, by your own admission, are something that each person needs to decide upon. Not decided for you. I'm not saying your advice isn't good or knowledgable. It is. Maybe the gift is a certificate and a link to this thread.

The first chef's knife I ever owned was a gift(with a coin!!) from a culinary student with much more experience than I. It was a good introductory knife for someone who didn't know how to chop an onion, but after having used it for a while and gained more experience, I would never have purchased it myself.


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## spammar (Jun 2, 2013)

if you want a specific brand of knife i would reccomend MAC only issues i have with them is you need to hone them more often and they can rust easily other than that no complaints

they are sharp as all hell sliced through the tip of my finger one time it was so sharp i barley felt it. the balance and weight for both the 10' and 8' french knives are great the boning knife they have comes with its own "sheath" it has good flexibility and easy to control. they have alot of knives but those are my favorite ones.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Spammar,

All of the MAC series are made from stainless alloys.  Gotta ask:  What are you doing to rust them?

BDL


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## spammar (Jun 2, 2013)

boar_d_laze said:


> Spammar,
> 
> All of the MAC series are made from stainless alloys. Gotta ask: What are you doing to rust them?
> 
> BDL


if youre running around and forget to dry them and forget to dry them in some spectacular lapse of judgement MAC knives do rust in beads but using powdered bar polish works since its non-toxic and a the rust stays on the surface (I prefer bar keepers friend)

it's actually it is not staniless anymore they now use a mix of molybdenum and steel, molybdenum can rust.

steel and chromium are what make stainless but chromium is lower quality than molybdenum


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

All steel is an alloy composed of -- at least -- iron and carbon. All modern _stainless steels_ also include chromium. In the old days, some stainless had nickel instead, and modern austenitic stainless includes a substantial component of nickel as well as stainless. The current international standard for a steel alloy to be called "stainless" requires a minimum of 13% chromium (by weight).

Almost all contemporary stainless steel with any pretension to quality, is "moly steel." Moly is added to stainless steels to improve resistance to improve strength and hardness. It increases corrosion resistance, and does not increase it. A couple of examples of very rust resistant moly steels include the nearly ubiquitous X50CrMoV15 used by Victorinox, Wusthof and most German makers; and Global's Cromova 18 which is so stainless it could be used for dive knives.

As far as I know, _all three of the alloys MAC employs are stainless, and each contains 13% chromium_.

It's more likely that you're getting some sort of crud deposits on your knife than actual corrosion, but I can't tell for sure without seeing, feeling and cleaning the knife. Unfortunately, "stainless" doesn't mean it can't be rusted or stained given enough abuse. Stainless or not, you should take better care of your knives.

BDL


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## spammar (Jun 2, 2013)

I cant help forgetting every now and then it ends up looking somewhat like this if I forget to dry my knife




  








k-bigpic.jpg




__
spammar


__
Jun 3, 2013







by the way this is not any of my knives i got the picture from google

edit: the stainless knives I have can handle air drying without the affect happening above ^ that's why i assume it is rust


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