# suggestions on new paring knife



## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

I'm a novice home cook who just got into buying some new knives. My first real knife purchase was the tojiro dp gyuto which is great. This knife is huge however. I have a small vic paring knife (cheap) but it just wont hold an edge that long and I havent invested in a good set of sharpening stones yet. I plan to.

I need a new, decent paring knife that will hold an edge longer than the vic. I will be using the knife to chop small vegetables, herbs, etc. I am considering this Mac.

can anyone comment on this knife? Also, what is the differences between the "pro", "professional", and "superior" lines?

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/macprpakn5.html

Chef knives has this "superior" mac on sale, but it has some weird star cutout at the top - http://www.chefknivestogo.com/macknsu5inut.htmlI'm a noob but it makes me think about the knife being weaker there and subject to chiping.

Any difference between the Mac and this Fuji? http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkmpe12.html

I see that most of the japanese style knives have these rounded or round/square handles. I've never held one - are they decent to hold?

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/mamipe12.html


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

I have been using a forshner/vic for thirty five years and have no problem with it holding an edge.  I use a double sided stone available from an industrial supply.  I have a diamond hone for daily touch up.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Are you contacting the board much with your paring knife usage? 
I would probably go stainless, or at least make sure to have a stainless paring knife

Pro and professional should be the same

I believe the hole is for the knife to be able to be hung up on a nail or something of the like in kitchens. If you sharpen up to that...you're not going to be using the knife on the board well at that point anyways.

Mac and Fujiwara FKM use different steels. 

I don't use a petty or parer all that much, but so long as you have some grip flexibility the wa-handles are fine. Plenty of people use them, after all

Why not go Tojiro again? 

How much knuckle clearance do you want for chopping?


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

It looks to me like you're doing some board work more than in hand work.  bump it up to 150mm petty i think you will find it more useful


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## mike9 (Jul 13, 2012)

The Tojiro ITK 150 petty is a really sweet (and tall) knife albeit fully reactive.  If you can handle that it's one of the best bangs for the buck IMO.


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

Mike9 said:


> The Tojiro ITK 150 petty is a really sweet (and tall) knife albeit fully reactive. If you can handle that it's one of the best bangs for the buck IMO.


what do you mean by reactive?


foody518 said:


> Are you contacting the board much with your paring knife usage?
> I would probably go stainless, or at least make sure to have a stainless paring knife
> 
> Pro and professional should be the same
> ...


thats a good point i didnt think about - knuckle clearance.I guess just something a bit smaller than what i have length wise.

Question. Is a smaller cleaver overkill for chopping onions and carrots ?


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

Mike9 said:


> The Tojiro ITK 150 petty is a really sweet (and tall) knife albeit fully reactive. If you can handle that it's one of the best bangs for the buck IMO.


actually that looks awesome. The Tojiro ITK 150 petty has enough room for dicing though that handle is a bit ugly.


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

its not vg10, it is #2 steel. Any idea what that is?


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Frankly if you really feel your Tojiro chefs is too big for these on the board small chopping tasks, then maybe consider a small santoku or nakiri so you've got some height for chopping 

White 2 and Blue 2 are some of Hitachi's high quality carbon steels (non stainless). If I recall correctly the Tojiro ITK as well as the Masakage Mizu are clad in soft iron which will also be reactive. Given what seems like your lack of familiarity with this I might hold off on getting a carbon steel knife for now, especially if this is going to see use on things like citrus, onions, and tomatoes


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

I was looking at the santoku's but I read some comments by BDL (i think thats his nickname on here) who said they were basically junk because they take away from learning proper knife skills by using a traditional chef's knife.

Not sure If i interpreted his comments correctly but thats what I took away from it.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

They can be considered redundant. Between a decent petty and gyuto you should be covered for typical board work. I do herbs and aromatics most commonly with a 240mm gyuto. But with you feeling like your Tojiro is huge I'm wondering what might be a good adjustment. Do you pinch grip?


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## mike9 (Jul 13, 2012)

bobtheman said:


> actually that looks awesome. The Tojiro ITK 150 petty has enough room for dicing though that handle is a bit ugly.


There's a saying about traditional Japanese knives like these - "you buy the blade and get the handle for free" Even Carter kurouchi knives come with handles like that.


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

can you comment or link me to some information regarding the difference between vg10 and the white #2 steel?  Is the White #2 steel going to hold an edge like the vg10?

The black matte finish on the Tojiro Shirogami ITK 150mm petty,  would i need to scrub this off before use?

The bluing of the outer steel, any idea if Tojiro does this by a chemical reaction, I think it can also be done by using heat. Maybe a heat gun?


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

They are about as different as you can get.  VG-10 is stainless and difficult to de burr.    White steel is carbon and the easiest steel to sharpen.  

Edge retention is up to so many factors.  I'll tell you that it literally takes less than 30 seconds, maybe 2 strokes per side, to restore my white steel knives to working condition.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

If you scrub off the black finish, be very vigilant about keeping the blade dry and rust free 

I don't know about the Tojiro ITK specifically, but my kurouchi finished knives aren't shredding into the food. They're only abrading off when I hit it with the stones.


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

foody518 said:


> If you scrub off the black finish, be very vigilant about keeping the blade dry and rust free
> 
> I don't know about the Tojiro ITK specifically, but my kurouchi finished knives aren't shredding into the food. They're only abrading off when I hit it with the stones.


the kurouchi are carbon steel knives also? Just to make sure I understand what you are saying - do you mean that your carbon steel knife when sharpened is not that sharp? Did I read that correctly?

I guess I would be less inclinded to want to take off the black finish if I knew what it was -- and how likely it would be for it to come off into whatever im cutting.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Kurouchi is roughly blacksmith finish or forge finish. I was referring to my knives (see profile picture) that also have Kurouchi and are carbon steel core with soft iron cladding, and commenting on the resilience of that finish (not coming off on food, only when I hit that area while sharpening/thinning), should have clarified. Nothing about edge quality which is determined by the steel at the actual cutting edge. 

I would dig around the web if there's any commentary on how durable the ITK finish is. It looks rather thin and like a film.


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

foody518 said:


> Kurouchi is roughly blacksmith finish or forge finish. I was referring to my knives (see profile picture) that also have Kurouchi and are carbon steel core with soft iron cladding, and commenting on the resilience of that finish (not coming off on food, only when I hit that area while sharpening/thinning), should have clarified. Nothing about edge quality which is determined by the steel at the actual cutting edge.
> 
> I would dig around the web if there's any commentary on how durable the ITK finish is. It looks rather thin and like a film.


sorry im not good with the terminology, thank you for clarifying

I assume that black colored, blacksmith finish (laquer i here they call it sometimes) is just to prevent the steel from oxidixing and rusting?


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

It is not the same as lacquer, though some knives will also have a clear-ish lacquer film on them as well. I took that off with a cotton pad and some acetone. For the ITK I can't personally say whether it does or not, but whenever I read about a cheap carbon knife with cheap soft iron cladding and some reviewer says it's not very reactive, it makes me think the knife's got a lacquer on it the reviewer hasn't yet been taken off (or otherwise it gradually comes off through abrasion and use).

The kurouchi finish inhibits oxidation and rust though I don't think absolutely. Still going to need good maintenance habits.


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

do you have any suggestions for a smaller knife than what I have for chopping vegitables ? I currently have the tojiro dp gyuto 240mm  .. and im new to sharpening - havent bought my stones yet.


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

if the downfall to the sg-2 and white steel of carbon knifes are its brittleness and oxidation/ rusting / upkeep requirements, what are its benefits?

why would anyone opt for anything other than vg10?


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Can't wait for this discussion!


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

I don't think SG2 has been mentioned so far in this thread?

White 2 is probably less brittle of a steel than most the steels we tend to start talking about with J-knives. 

VG-10 can take extra diligence and tenacity to fully remove burrs, and generally stainless steels take longer to abrade than carbons. It has a reputation for being maybe not so beginner friendly, because if you're not getting a burr free edge you're really not maximizing the perks of getting a better steel. You might also be limited in how acute the edge angle can be to still hold relatively well.


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

if i understand correctly, that makes sense. vg10 is a 'harder' steel and is therefor 'harder' to sharpen.  Alton brown seems to say that the structure and bond of the alloys in the steel of vg10, he references shun knives, are more tighly held together and are superior.

Ive read that white # 2 can be sharper than vg10 --- or at least easier to sharpen -- which tells me that the steel itself is softer, and wont hold an edge as long. The harder steel, vg10, I would have to guess can get as sharp with more work, but should hold that edge longer.

Are there any benefits to purchasing a knife that is white #2 or sg 2 compared to vg10? I havent found that argument yet.


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/InformationAboutSteels.html

this has been very helpful for anyone interested

it seems that my arguement is basically stainless vs carbon knives. VG10 being one of the best for stainless, im not sure what the best is for carbon.

It looks like, after looking at this links, that blue #2 is a better steel alloy than white #2. Im guessing its more expensive also. But I still dont get why I would choose a blue #2 steel over vg10.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

VG-10 does not tend to be harder than white #2 . That has to do with heat treating and other intentional actions done to the steels.

I would ignore Alton Brown for now...he's vastly oversimplying and talking to an audience that largely knows and cares little to nothing about material properties. And maybe also shilling like mad.

All VG-10 is is a good alloy steel, with enough chromium to be called stainless. Those alloying elements are going to lead to grain structure size and distribution differences from a fine grained, minimal alloy steel like white 2. It won't support as keen an edge. Depending on heat treat can be 'chippy'. Takes longer to sharpen as most stainless does due at least in part to the abrasion resistance of its carbides, which come from the fact that it's a higher alloy steel. Takes more care and diligence to sharpen to a clean edge. I don't mind because I got into knives and sharpening for this to be a very involved and consuming hobby, but I'm not you.

Did you read Millionsknives above? Sharpening/touching up is blazing fast, a breeze, edge keenness is really second to none. Patinas are cool (though rust is not)

You seem apprehensive enough about getting into sharpening that having an easier to sharpen than VG-10 steel would be worth looking into....but they tend to require some more active maintenance and care. 

Also,

1. You should get your stones fairly soon

2. Do you pinch grip? I suggested a santoku or nakiri since you feel the Tojiro is too big for veg chopping but then you brought up an old thread about BDL's comments on the matter. If you DO pinch grip and feel like you've given yourself enough time to get used to the Tojiro, yet still don't feel comfortable with your gyuto and you are a good height relative to your counter, then I think maybe ignoring the point about technique and such might be a consideration and to look into a less versatile but small technique/learning curve knife like that (do you take that point about underdeveloped technique so personally that you don't want to consider the other knives even while you are still not feeling comfortable with your current knife which is more versatile?). If a petty, you'll want to go longer/taller but I have no clue what your current situation and preferences are with knuckle clearance.

And - Jon Broida has a good video and blog post somewhere about steel types, mentioning some stainless, carbons, and briefly, PM steels.


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

For sure, my knife skills are very lacking. That could be the root cause of my issue - with regard to finding something to complement my tojiro. I can fix this, but it will take time.

I do pinch grip. I'm not sure if this is an acceptable knife holding posture but i'll try to look into it. I've just been watching youtube videos trying to learn proper knife skills.

When i go to chop an onion, and the knife is three times as long as what im cutting, it just feels odd to me. overkill. clumbsy


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

fwiw, i havent bought my stones because of the different brands.

I want something decent but not something outrageously priced. Besters seem like a good brand. I dunno though. I may get the bester 1200.  Do I absolutely need the stone holder? Would a towel under the stone work ?

Is the 1200 high enough to allow me to get back to a sharp state ( i know it wont be 8k sharp) ?


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

I think that if your goal is to cut veg and herbs and you're somewhat offended by the prospect of getting a less versatile knife to do that, you might be better served working on knife skills with your Tojiro. It's very satisfying to get better as well.

Generally, you want to incorporate some forward or backwards motions into the cut as well. Look into pushing cutting. No need to do a straight chop. Feels easier (at least to me) and uses more of your blade length (probably why it feels easier). I don't really like for my knife to only be as short or long as the thing I'm trying to cut, makes me scared it's going to run out (because of the horizontal motion incorporated into cutting).


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

The Bester 1200 is good if you are okay with having a long time soaking stone and your Tojiro's edge is still holding up okay. Suehiro Cerax 1000 is another decent soaking stone option for medium grit. They should both be in a similar price range.

A 1200 grit edge is primarily going to having a very different feel than something like an 8k edge. Most of what sharp is at least at this point is going to be how cleanly you form an edge (consistent angle holding) as well as how well you deburr. Really confusing and a bit of a let down to have what looks like a nice even bevel but an edge that won't cut like it should because of burr and other junk impeding a clean edge.

It took me probably 2 continuous hours of worrisome and confused beginner sharpening until I figured out the burr thing and a couple more hours until I figured out type of grip and sharpening stroke that worked best for me so I could really make progress on consistent angle holding. Would have taken less time if I had used the sharpie/marker trick more frequently and had found Jon's videos first before CKTG's sharpening vids.

Towel under stone is fine. Just something to prevent slip and elevate the stone a bit so your knuckles don't bump your table/counter.


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

can you link johns videos?

soaking time for the bester, are we talking like five minutes, or 3 hours?

im ok with a santoku, I was also looking at something called a 'deba' . I havent looked at the nikiri yet. I'm still not sure if i should get blue #2, white #2, or vg10.  It sounds like since carbon steels are easier to sharpen that it may be better for me to look at a carbon knife? Is this the benefit? They are easier to sharpen?


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

Benuser said:


> For sure, you may get your knife very sharp on a 1200 stone, no doubt about it -- besides some special cases of steels that require careful abrading of the burr. But you don't want to maintain it with that 1200 grit or you will lose alot of material and the blade will get very thick behind the edge.


it will be my first and only stone, should i start with a 2k ?

thinking about my noobish sharpining skills, a higher grit, which will take off less metal ... is probably ideal and preferable.


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## mike9 (Jul 13, 2012)

My Bester 500 and Gesshin 400 are permasoakers - they are in water all the time.  I add a little bleach and change water several times a year.

About the Tojiro ITK kurouchi finish - it has no lacquer on top it is a straight up KU finish.  Many KU finishes are lacquerd and that needs to be removed at the cutting edge on a stone.


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

its interesting to me that when speaking about carbon and stainless steel, bdl had the following to say:

"Considering what's available now, carbon is more trouble than it's worth _for most cooks_."
Source: http://www.cheftalk.com/t/61707/opi...bon-or-stainless-steel-knives-for-a-home-cook


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

let me ask this, is it possible to find a decent carbon knife at around 100 USD?  The knifes BDL recommended in that thread I linked were more around the 250 mark.  Is that the cost of a decent, worth buying, carbon knife?


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

30 min minimum but honestly 60 feels better but I use it often enough (at least once a month, sharpening knives for others) that I leave it in a tub of water and just dump and put fresh water in every week or two.











You're looking at a 5-6 year old thread...

For me probably one of the only stainless I'm going to get soon is just a longer western handled one so when I go volunteering I've got something with more usable blade length than my 210 Tojiro. Most everything else I look at these days is carbon.

The deba is not at all what you want to chop veg and herbs with.

http://www.aframestokyo.com/tadafusa-wa-gyuto-nashiji-finish-210mm-blue-ii-steel-bl210.html Though sold out

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-MASAHIRO-Carbon-Steel-Gyuto-Knife-210mm-13011-/381564046602

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-MA...-Butcher-Chef-Knife-240mm-25012-/381349213555

http://stores.ebay.com/bluewayjapan/GYUTO-KNIFE-/_i.html?_fsub=18382163

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/SwedenSteelSeries.html#SwedenSteel

When JCK has their 10% off sale the 210mm will be under $100. The dragon starts at the 240 though. Misono Swedish is more than merely a decent carbon chefs knife

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...gesshin-uraku-240mm-white-2-kurouchi-wa-gyuto A bit over $100 but very good knife.


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

for the purposes of a a 'sharper knife', easier sharpening, and to have a smaller knife than my tojiro I am interested in these and wondered if anyone had any comments or thoughts before I bought one.

Moritaka AS Petty 130mm -- im not familiar with the AS steel however. Looks like it has enough heel to do some small chopping and is small enough for handwork. Same maker has a Santoku for 160 USD
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/moritaka12.html

Kohetsu Blue #2 Nashiji Petty 135mm

Better price, 90 USD - and its blue steel #2 which i have read a little about. Good Heel also, enough hight to do some chopping.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kobl2pe80.html

Minamoto Nashiji Blue #2 petty 135mm
Not crazy about the western style handle
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/minabl2pe13.html

Masakage Yuki Petty 120mm
Beautiful looking knife. Something called HS #2 steel, I will need to read up on it. Not sure if its easy to sharpen and gets 'stupid' sharp.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/mayupe12.html

Murata Buho Sabaki 120m

this is blue #1, not 2. Is 2 all around better than 1? Good price point.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/mubusa12.html

I would get a Mac, they seem to be highly rated knives, but they are not carbon steel from my understanding... and there is very little heal. something like this
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/macprpakn5.html


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

I don't know why, but CKTG's prices on Moritakas are kind of high... late last year ordering directly from Moritaka was MUCH cheaper even including shipping, if you're okay with a longer wait time. http://moritakahamono.com/en/hocyo1-3santk.html

Keep in mind Moritakas are fully reactive (no stainless cladding). AS is just Blue #1 still with extra alloying elements as well as extra carbon.

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...ary-of-hitachi-carbon-steels-common-in-knives

The Kohetsu seems to be another knife of a similar make as this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Ic...tty-Knife-Nashiji-165mm-Kokutan-/231940802607

The Yuki is White #2 same as the ITK mentioned before...I don't know why CKTG prices on it are where they are! I've purchased the Yuki 270mm gyuto (when currency conversion was good) for not $40 more than what this petty listing is at. They've got a ko-bunka that looks like a cute and fun lil thing http://knifewear.com/collections/masakage-yuki/products/masakage-yuki-ko-bunka-130mm make sure to toggle the currency if not already pre-set on USD.

Blue 1 and Blue 2 and such are all tradeoffs. See the JKI link above.

The Mac ones just aren't profiled well for extensive on-board chopping work of the type you seem to be wanting to use this knife for.

Again though, if you're really looking to chop then like Millions has written before, look more on the 150mm or more length.

Are you okay with the price range on these knives? Something else to look at, if you are https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...gesshin-uraku-150mm-white-2-kurouchi-wa-petty which has a horn and not plastic ferrule unlike the Kohetsu.

Ultimately you're going to have to be the judge about knife height/knuckle clearance that suits you. Watch how people grip smaller knives when doing a chopping motion.


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

awesome reply

that gesshin look awesome to, its at a good price point also. Did you have any comments on the minamoto petty I linked?


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

I know nothing about the Minamoto petty personally. It looks short considering your chopping requirement. How do you grip smaller knives?

Note that the Gesshin White #2 petty is fully reactive - non-stainless cladding over White #2 core. You'll for sure be getting a quality product though. If I didn't have a weird personal hang-up about getting repeat things (I've purchased the Stainless Uraku Gyuto for someone as a gift before) I'd probably nab the White #2 Kurouchi Gyuto (great price point for the gyuto) or SKD Nakiri from that line for myself.

Not stainless, but I thought of Tanaka knives when thinking about a lower price range. Unfortunately metalmaster doesn't have the Blue #2 Damascus currently in stock. He has the VG-10 petty on Ebay for $60 bucks though http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-ki...wood-handle-/261546909866?hash=item3ce56920aa

Oh here we go, it's on his main site listing but not on his Ebay listings...hopefully it's up to date. http://www.metalmaster-ww.com/product-list/5 the Blue #2 150mm Damascus patterned petty is $58 plus whatever shipping is. Then there's a 180mm Kurouchi Gyuto that might fit the bill for $50 + shipping.

Edit: Just FYI, the two Tanaka Blue #2 knives have plastic/resin collars.


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## mannlicher (Jan 8, 2006)

I want a new paring knife as well.  I have designed it, and Tim Olt, up in Michigan, will make it.  1/8 thick S30V steel.  Bocote wood handle.  Shape will mimic the Sabatier French style 4 inch paring knife.

When Tim finishes, I will post a picture.  He does great work.


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

do you have any comments on this one?

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/mayupe12.html

Masakage Yuki Petty 120mm - its white #2 -- how is that for edge rention? Is blue #2 or super blue just all around better?

Could I get this extremely sharp?


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Sure. looks kinda fat though





  








masakage-yuki-petty-120mm-37.png




__
millionsknives


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May 27, 2016


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

the fatness would effect cutting by "wedging" ? which would prevent me from getting thin slices? Is that correct?

This is beautiful - but its vg10 and im assuming it would be harder to sharpen.

http://knifewear.com/collections/petty/products/masakage-kiri-petty-120mm


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

_*LOL.*_

Here's a comment ... _"$130 - $150 for a paring or petty knife is nuts."_


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

yeah good point


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

IceMan said:


> _*LOL.*_
> 
> Here's a comment ... _"$130 - $150 for a paring or petty knife is nuts."_


what would you suggest - just going cheaper?


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Wedging gets your knife stuck in foods. Takes extra effort.

If you are having troubles getting a clean edge on your Tojiro after some practice then I would probably not going the same route on the petty.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

I've got a really nice < $5 petty knife from IKEA. When I sharpen it past usability ... I will throw it away.  I don't know ... or care ... what steel it is. I know it gets as sharp as I need it to. IT'S A PETTY KNIFE. It's never lost an argument with anything it had to cut.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

I've never experienced wedging as a significant problem with a paring knife used as intended. If wedging is an issue a larger knife should have been used.


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

http://knifewear.com/collections/petty/products/masakage-kiri-petty-120mm

would this get as sharp as the white #2 or blue #2 ? would it still be fairly easy to sharpen?


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

It certainly looks sharp!

You have two problems

1) You ask the same questions and then ignore all advice and then you ask the same questions. See here about your steel again http://www.cheftalk.com/t/89488/suggestions-on-new-paring-knife#post_537050 You are comparing apples and blueberries

2) You want to use a really short knife to do boardwork because you lack knife skills (or initiative to develop skills) to use a bigger knife that is appropriate. Veg and herbs? Chefs knife

I'm done with this thread. unsubscribing


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

Well I appreciate your honesty and sincerity.

If you will - I cut two to three avacados a day. I slice the avacados in the skin before scooping them out with a spoon. THis is an example of when a 210mm guyuto is just overkill. Can you use it? Sure. Is it the best choice for me - i dont think so. Maybe this is an example of poor knife skills, i dunno.

Or, im cutting strawberrys for presentation. Roses. Guyuto cant do this. Paring or pettty ... can. Garlic and shallots ... petty.

FWIW, CKTG even states that the petty is good for board work.

"pettys are often considered ideal for small and delicate tasks on a cutting board while paring knives are better employed in hand"


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

You want conversation ... specifically, at this time ... knife conversation. NO, there is nothing wrong with that. The problem is that you are conversing with, for the most part, knife geeks.


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

IceMan said:


> You want conversation ... specifically, at this time ... knife conversation. NO, there is nothing wrong with that. The problem is that you are conversing with, for the most part, knife geeks.


 knife conversation so that I can choose a good knife for what im looking for -- which I highly appreciate


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

bobtheman said:


> If you will - I cut two to three avacados a day. I slice the avacados in the skin before scooping them out with a spoon. THis is an example of when a 210mm guyuto is just overkill. Can you use it? Sure. Is it the best choice for me - i dont think so. Maybe this is an example of poor knife skills, i dunno.
> 
> Or, im cutting strawberrys for presentation. Roses. Guyuto cant do this. Paring or pettty ... can. Garlic and shallots ... petty.
> 
> ...


Depends on what you have. And this thread is about your getting another knife for mainly what seemed like tasks your primary can do. The reason it went in this way is as opposed to the typical uses of fruit work, you specifically mentioned chopping, hence the ensuing suggestions and the 'why not just gyuto/chefs'.

Strawberry roses- A good time to use a paring knife. Not really board work, not much of a need for knuckle clearing as with chopping. A Vic paring knife would do the job if the edge is in good shape (sharpening) or just by virtue of being thin, probably, and that type of application is not one that leads to huge edge wear from the lack of impact with hard things like boards.

Garlic and shallots - I use what is most accessible/what I have out. Which is a 240mm-270mm gyuto or Chinese cleaver depending on my mood. Maybe I just really dislike having my cutting hand anywhere close to touching the foods that are being cut and think there's nothing wrong with a longer blade than the food being cut, I dunno.

Also, you never replied back about your actual preferences or needs with knuckle clearance, despite asking and trying to bring that to your attention. Statements like what's one the CKTG website that will or won't be appropriate depending on *you*. But I've cut up garlic and chives with a petty and honestly didn't enjoy it that much/didn't feel like it was more necessary to use a petty than a chef's


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

foody518 said:


> Depends on what you have. And this thread is about your getting another knife for mainly what seemed like tasks your primary can do. The reason it went in this way is as opposed to the typical uses of fruit work, you specifically mentioned chopping, hence the ensuing suggestions and the 'why not just gyuto/chefs'.
> 
> Strawberry roses- A good time to use a paring knife. Not really board work, not much of a need for knuckle clearing as with chopping. A Vic paring knife would do the job if the edge is in good shape (sharpening) or just by virtue of being thin, probably, and that type of application is not one that leads to huge edge wear from the lack of impact with hard things like boards.
> 
> ...


Sorry - thanks for pointing that out.

Yes I do have a vic paring. It is perfect for doing roses but Its a bit dull at the moment. It doesnt seem to hold an edge for long. Its probably my crappy cutting board thats killing it. One of the reasons for me placing the order is to obtain my first stone. Ive decided to first get a rika 5k as im hoping my knives are just in need of a touch up. In a month or so I plan to get a 1200 or so.

Also, with the 210mm tojiro guyuto - it is large. But ive noticed that my better half wont use it. She picks up a dull, old, never been sharpened steak knife and complains why she uses it. I know, without asking - that its because the guyuto is to big to use. I have a hard time using it myself sometimes for smaller jobs.

This selling point on KnifeWear seems accurate with the prior issue described when it talks about petty knives - "Petty knives are an indispensable tool for those who feel uncomfortable wielding a larger chef knife"

I'm fine using the guyuto - slicing larger onions, most veggies etc - just for the smaller stuff i need a petty that has some heal length. I considered getting a santuk - and may latter down the road. The petty just seems like a good stop gap solution.

I pinch grip. Unlike DTrump, i have small hands and need little knuckle clearence.

I hope that answers your questions.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

If you would describe your Vic paring knife as dull, then the Rika won't do squat for it. You'll be at it forever and that's a BAD thing for a beginner sharpener. Get that medium stone first.

Go with a petty you'd feel comfortable sharpening, your better half would feel comfortable using (and maintaining, does that rule out carbons?) and doesn't look like it's super thick right behind the edge or towards at the spine.


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

MillionsKnives said:


> It certainly looks sharp!
> 
> You have two problems
> 
> ...


couldnt a short knife be used - while using a push cut technique ? This would be proper skills, with a short knife.


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

foody518 said:


> If you would describe your Vic paring knife as dull, then the Rika won't do squat for it. You'll be at it forever and that's a BAD thing for a beginner sharpener. Get that medium stone first.
> 
> Go with a petty you'd feel comfortable sharpening, your better half would feel comfortable using (and maintaining, does that rule out carbons?) and doesn't look like it's super thick right behind the edge or towards at the spine.


im glad you mention that. I know that carbons have to be taken care of with a closer eye. Keep dry, wipe down after use. Slight oiling. My question is --- are they as finicky as ... they need to be wiped down after every other stroke?

I think my better half would be fine with using it to prep stuff and then wash and dry it without laying it down. But wiping it every other cut would be a bit much for her.

is a 2k still considered medium?


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## bobtheman (Apr 13, 2015)

the shapton pro is listed as medium at 2k .. bester doesnt carry a 2k from what I can see.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

I've linked a video already in this thread about carbon steel care/maintenance. See the previous page.

No, not every other cut, but that also depends on acidity of what you're cutting. I prep right by my sink and will do a quick wipe/rinse and wipe every few minutes of continuous cutting, longer if I'm cutting things with no acidity, or will rinse and wipe if I'm about to sidetrack onto another task (like, just cut some tomatoes or an onion, need to do something around the stovetop, prefer not to leave it sitting there with tomato juice). Get a rust eraser or something if you're worried.

I'm sure there have been threads on carbon steel care, please reference them - there should be loads of good information already out on the web.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Bester does have a 2k but CKTG doesn't stock it.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

A couple more options that aren't getting this into a (possibly) unnecessary price range
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...ecials/products/gesshin-150mm-stainless-petty
You could contact Jon and ask when he expects to get those back in stock. 
If you need the free shipping you could get a stone like the 1500 splash and go from JKI too. The upfront cost is on the high side but they are very well made stones in most every way.

http://japanesechefsknife.com/SwedenSteelSeries.html#SwedenSteel the 150mm petty. I would be surprised if either of these ran chunky.


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