# An Inconvenient Truth About Food



## devotay (May 14, 2001)

* Or: What I Took Away From Al Gore's Slideshow*

As a movie freak and a political junkie, it was inevitable that I would have to see Davis Guggenheims' latest documentary, An Inconvenient Truth. Now like most people if you had asked me if I wanted to go see a documentary about Al Gore giving a PowerPoint presentation - a man reputed to be so dull his secret service codename was "Al Gore" - I might have said (yawn) no thanks, I need to go have a root canal done at an Amway convention. Fortunately I saw the trailer first, and so was intrigued.

The folks at Sundance and Cannes were intrigued too, where they treated Gore like a rock star and gave the film high honors. But the fact that Guggenheim took what sounds at first blush to be the height of boredom and transformed it into a nail-biter is not why you should see it. It's not the medium, it's the message.

By now most people know what the inconvenient truth of the title is. If you haven't heard, one option you have is to wait a few years and you'll know. Simply put, it's this: global warming is real, it's dangerous, and it's our fault. There is no debate (or, what there was is over). Ask some scientists - the reputable ones who publish in peer-reviewed journals, not the ones whose paychecks come from petroleum companies - they ALL agree. And most of them can demonstrate that we will reach a tipping point, a point of no return, in just 10 years. In 50 years, well within my children's lifetimes, the planet will very likely be completely uninhabitable.

But this is not a movie-to-slit-your-wrists-by kind of a message. Though portending horrible and tragic possibilities, the message is one of hope. There is something we can do, and since everything I know revolves around food, I have but the one way to look at it. So here are some food-related things you can do, in that wonderful "be the change you wish to see in the world" kind of way, to stem the tide (quite literally).

•Plant a garden. It doesn't have to be big; in fact it can start as a window box. But plant it with food you will eat.
•Buy locally. Get your food from someplace nearby. Remember that the average food item in this country travels 1400 miles before it gets to your grocery store shelf. That's a lot of gas and diesel being burned, which means a lot of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. See the movie if you don't know why that's bad.
•Keep you fridge clean. It costs more and uses more energy to run a dirty fridge, so clean the coils and the shelves. Also, store food toward the bottom when you can't keep it full.
•Careful with the dishwasher. Use the economy cycle and prop it open to air dry rather than using the heated drying system. You'll save money too.
•Ride your bike to the farmers' market. And everywhere else too, if you can.
•Don't eat fast food. It is designed to be eaten in the car, and Michael Pollan's book The Omnivore's Dilemma will explain to you (among many other things) how a meal at McDonald's uses 3.5 gallons of oil. Think about that next time you read that there have been "billions and billions served."

Perhaps the most important thing you can do right now is see the movie, and take as man people with you as you can. Tell them all to tell everyone else. Then come election season, ask your candidates whether they saw it and if not why not? What are their opinions of the issue and what are they planning to do about it?

Meanwhile, what are you planning to do about it?


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Well on that recommendation I'll go see it. 

as to your recommendations I'm with you.....except for:Ride your bike to the farmers’ market. And everywhere else too, if you can.

It's hard to stock up for the week at a farmer's market if you are riding a bike.....many of our customers take several loads to their cars. Can you imagine trying to get ripe peaches or heirloom tomatoes home on a bike?

Tonight is the first in a 6 part series of Farmer-Chef cooking classes.....I developed for Clayton Farmer's Market. The farmer will speak for 10 minutes about their farm connecting the guests/students with the farmer. Each class has a different high profile local chef that will feature the products from the farmer in a 2 hour demo cooking class.....I've lined up a Mo. winery to pour their wines. Viking Cooking School is hosting the classes in their 40 seat cooking ampitheatre. 

Two weeks is local peach ice cream and sorbet give away at the market.....each year on my birthday I celebrate by giving away scoops of special Calhoun County Illinois Ice Cream & Sorbet.....it was rated best ice cream in the city last year!!!

Aug. 12 is Heirloom Tomato Fest....Nicko was a judge in the first contest years ago. It's still going strong and is a fun way to learn that not every tomato is the same.

*Decide what you want your community to be like and work to make that vision happen. It can be a world of fun!


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## free rider (May 23, 2006)

I walk to the local farmer's market. I have coolers to keep the goods while I head home. If there's more than I can carry, there are always luggage carts and such. Bikes can have carts attached to the back. For extremely large loads, it may be inconvenient, but a bike can actually haul quite a bit.


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## devotay (May 14, 2001)

Shroom,

I know what you mean, but for most people I'm with FreeRider here. I have to bring fairly big loads from the market to my restaurant, but then, we have a farmers' market every day here, so I don't need to haul quite as much as those who stock up for the week.

Walking with a wagon is a great thing too, and bringing kids along if you have them shows them the importance of buying locally AND gives you exttra carrying hands!


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## jock (Dec 4, 2001)

I haven't seen the movie yet but I know about it and its reputation. It is on my "to do" list near the top.

I am proud to say that I am a commute cyclist and have been for over 20 years. I don't have a yard but I planted herbs in window boxes at one time. I stopped when the house was painted a few years ago and the boxes were removed. I'm inspired to start again.

Thank you

Jock


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## bigwheel (May 26, 2006)

Yeah yeah yeah..Mount Pinatuba (sic..in the Phillipines) spewed out more carbonated flourocarbines in the first 10 mins of blowing its top than evil old mankind has made in its history. Algore is a total tree hugging idiot and so is them who follows his irrational antics. He is whut is known in theology vernacular as a "pantheist" followers of that particular religion believe that the Creator actually resides inside the Creation. That is why he worships trees and babbling brooks etc. Praise the Lord for hanging chads. 

bigwheel


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## jock (Dec 4, 2001)

Well I gotta disagree with you there Bigwheel. I don't know that smog was much of an issue until us humans began burning fossil fuels in such huge quantities. And Mt Pini-what's-it in the Phillipines or any other volcanic erruption before it didn't make holes in the ozone layer. That's all on us.

I'm not the least bit religeous and I don't know where the "creator" lives but I can tell you that it breaks my heart when I see trees by the thousand dead from acid rain in California's forests. 

I say that anybody who doesn't see that is fiddling while Rome burns.

Jock


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

Yeah, thank god we got Dubya... much better choice for the country and the world huh?


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## foodnfoto (Jan 1, 2001)

Sorry to have to correct you BW, but global warming is the result of a build-up of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, not cloroflourocarbons. They contribute to the thinning of the ozone layer which protects us from the sun's ultraviolet radiation. Both are severe environmental concerns, yet unrelated issues.
My Dad, now retired, has been a climatologist and meteorologist for the Air Force, NASA, and the Environmental Protection Agency (back when it had teeth, governmental and financial support, and leadership by informed scientists, not administration cronies.) He was concerned about the increase of global mean temperature since the 1960s and has tracked it ever since. There was a small dip in the 1970s-remember the oil embargo when everyone started buying fuel efficient cars and the speed limit was 55? This also coincided with a string of very cool winters in the US causing some hack science enthusiasts to predict a cooling of the the earth's temp. However, at that time, huge chunks of the antarctic ice began breaking off.

Yes, the earth has gone through seasons of heating up and cooling, but gradually over the course of the course of hundreds and thousands of years. The problem we see now has occurred over the course of the last 75-100 years-an increase of about 5-6 degrees F. Doesn't seem like much, but you must look at its affects globally. The Sahara has increased in area by 1/3 in the past 50 years. So have deserts in Asia and arid regions of N and S America.

It's a plain and simple fact that the increase of burning fossil fuels has a direct relationship to the increase in mean (average) global temperature. Not doing something to change our habits is myopic at best and more than ignorant at worst. Fossil fuels are a finite resource and it's stupid to not put tax dollars into researching and developing sustainable alternatives. 

Call Al Gore whatever you want, but he's informed, reasoned and intelligent. I know plenty of extreme tree-hugging pantheists and he's not one of them. Besides, he can actually pronounce the word "nuclear" and knows the difference between global warming, ozone depletion and acid rain-just a few distinctions that are completely lost on "the Shrub."


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## devotay (May 14, 2001)

I was gonna reply to "bigwheel," but foodnfoto said everything I was going to ('cept my dad was not a scientist).

The folks who are still arguing that it's a hoax (to what purpose, by the way?) are the ones who have no science, no facts behind their argument. They site articles in the press, on blogs and in oil company propaganda because they do not have the actual, peer-reviewed, cold hard data.

Meanwhile, my garden is looking great today!


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## foodnfoto (Jan 1, 2001)

Since we've moved to our new village I've been growing a vegetable garden too. I've had some problems this year, like mealy bugs chewing through the stems of my cucumbers and squash plants and there seems to be a perpetual lower leaf fungus that attacks my tomatoes-Waaaah! What to do?
But the lettuces, greens, beans, and sugar snaps have all been great.
One other thing I try to do is dry our laundry on a clothes line-saves a lot of energy. 
It's frustrating wanting and trying to do the right thing for our planet and society knowing my contribution makes so little impact in the bigger picture. So many more people could not care less. Hybrid snobs (plenty around here) touting their "superior" cars while driving to and from their McMansions really get my goat. I'd have bought a hybrid if any had the cargo room I need for hauling equipment to location shoots and if they were any good in the ice and snow (I settled on a Volvo AWD wagon. Volvo is no slouch in the efficiency and emissions arena, fortunately.)
I did find that Gore's suggestions at the end of the movie re: what individuals can do to help with the problem are simple enough for most folks to follow. Turn off lights when not in the room. Wear extra clothing in the winter. Drive the speed limit. Recycle. Grow a garden. Buy as many local foods as you can.
There were several others, but I forgot them. 
Try to add a few more to the list if you remember any so to remind us all (and maybe enlist BigHead too).


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## devotay (May 14, 2001)

First, a quick digression

foto - the bugs are probably squash bugs, and there is no organic way to stop them except go out every morning, turn every leaf and crush each one.

If you're OK with occasional chemical use for emergencies like this one, then there are plenty of insecticides that will do the trick.

Your tomato fungus actually comes from rain splashing up the microbes from the soil. Layer a few sheets of newspaper around each plant, and clip away the lower leaves.

Now back to the topic at hand:

A quick google search turned up lots of ideas, but here's one from an interesting site called eHow:


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## devotay (May 14, 2001)

Oh, and about the hybrid. I drive a prius, it has LOTS of payload space (I can cater with it) and handles Iowa winters just fine.

45 mpg by the way.


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

In so far as gardening and food sustainability I have posted this guys name and website before, but in the spirit of this thread and the gardening sidetrip you may want to take a look at his website and check out his book(s) also available at your local library usually.
http://www.johnjeavons.info/
We may not change the world ourselves but I guess it's true that every little bit helps. And even if you lean a little to the right and see the world in terms of "tree huggers" and "conservatives". There is still little things you can do that will help. After all I think it's inevitible in the course of time and nature that someday the earth won't be around, and not necessarily because of anything we do, or don't do. But why hasten it by being selfish. When we're gone we will still be leaving our kids, and their kids etc.
At least we get a discussion going and even people that don't agree with parts of the discussion should be able to see the situation developing and take something good away from it. So nice post Devotay for bringing it up.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Here's a good way to recycle:

www.freecycle.org

I've used my local freecycle list to great success. Gave away a computer, bicycle, lamps, old but useable tires, etc. All of which would have ended up in a landfill.

I'd love to further downsize, we're a one car family and bike commute to and from the grocery store. But, as one of the vices of living in the suburbs, we can't regularly ride our bikes for other things. Dr. appointments, ethnic grocery stores, honest restaurants, are all out of reach by bicycle.


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## bigwheel (May 26, 2006)

Unfortunantly the condition as described is a real common ailment amongst those who tout the wisdom, virtue and psudoscience of Algore

bigwheel


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## bigwheel (May 26, 2006)

Well the boy is similar to his old daddy..which is way too left leaning for me to get excited. Now will say I admire his stance on certain issues and would surely be forced to class him as the lesser of the evils when compared to the alternatives..i.e. Algore or the Heinze Kerry ketchup jiggolo fella. 

bigwheel


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## bigwheel (May 26, 2006)

Dang you got me thinking here. Dont trees produce that nasty old Co2 stuff when the sun goes down? If so think I am fixing to fire up the chainsaw and start cutting down trees to try and help Algore save the planet. Kindly let me know about this purty quick. Thanks. 

bigwheel


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## devotay (May 14, 2001)

First of all, everybody keep your religion (or lack thereof) to yourselves, where it belongs.

Secondly, I don't know where you get off calling the peer-reviewed scientific data of hundreds, even thousands of well educated researchers "pseudoscience"

So does this make you the kind of knee-jerk reactionary right-wingnut that automatically assumes that any thought or utterance that is in disagreement with your deeply held beliefs must be dismissed out of hand? Or are you, as I had hoped, the type of open-minded conservative who is willing to consider that others ideas just might have the force of scientific fact behind them?

Yeah, *no.* Trees produce oxygen, they _absorb_ CO2. Course, if you'd paid attention in biology class, you'd know that (oops! that'd be science! can listen to that!)


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## bigwheel (May 26, 2006)

Let me guess..all this hard science is only available from left wing tree huggers like Algore perhaps?

bigwheel


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## devotay (May 14, 2001)

No. Unless you call climatologists at NASA and the Jet Propulsion Laboratory "tree huggers." Not to mention every physics and chemistry professor at MIT.

There's ideology, and then there's science.


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

BW this is where the problems start, essentially it's like playground name calling. You have latched onto something like a pitbull and won't let go, and no matter what anyone says you will resort to the al gore comments. I went back to the beginning of the thread to see if someone took a swipe at you to start this, and no one did. You took it upon yourself to take it to a childish level and this is why no one can discuss religion and politics because it ends up like this. This discussion has gone beyond Al and it's really not so much of a political hot potato as it is a humanistic issue. You have kids I assume? If not I am sure you have relations that do. If so you really need to get off the "rightist style" bandwagon and join in a discussion that promotes our future and that of our families. I'm not saying you have to agree with everything or change your beliefs, but drop the gloves and listen to what is at stake and at least see if in your own backyard you can help in someway. Afterall you won't be here forever, I won't be, Al won't be and even Dubya won't be here, but someone will have to clean up after you, me, etc. It may even end up being your family that pays the price if we don't at least try to protect the earth and air that gives us life.


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## foodnfoto (Jan 1, 2001)

Bravo Chrose!


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## devotay (May 14, 2001)

Congratulations, BigWheel, you are now the first person on ChefTalk I've ever had to put on my "ignore" list. 

I recommend others do the same.

Anyone who would like to continue the sane portion of this conversation - I'm all ears.


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## katbalou (Nov 21, 2001)

i've got to say ever since i invested in my pellet stove i've been a lot warmer in my house and the ash gets put right into the garden. i figure if every one of us can try to recyle and re-use there might be a world left for my grandchildren. i don't understand how people are so blind to all the damage we humans have done to the earth.
just doing my small part to try and make it better.
kathee


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## devotay (May 14, 2001)

Hi Kat.

Tell me more about the stove. How much does it cost, where do you get the fuel? what's the fuel cost? Was it easy to install?

And what sort of emissions are there? Are you robbing Peter to pay Paul, or does it burn cleanly?


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

BW I really like reading your posts man but sometimes you tend to be a little overbearing. You gotta know when to back out and this is one you should have backed out of sometime ago. Now granted I see where you are coming from being in Texas and its the home state of now President Bush but I don't think Devotay intended this to turn into a political wrangling of any sort. Points are made here and points are taken here and we let it go at that. Chill BW, chill.

Rgds Rook...


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## diane (Mar 24, 2006)

...but interested. Whether or not global warming is the bugiman breathing down our necks is almost irrelevant. I tend to be very conservative. However, some truly terrible things are happening in this world and should stop. The rape of exotic timbers to line our boardrooms, to our own inertia. do not forget people like Gene Straton Porter, who wrote "Girl of the Limberlost" (Sp) early in the 20th century. She was a conservationist of great stature. An American and I think her books are back in print again. 

So having sent the Bugi pirate back to Indonesia, from whence he came, I would vote to grow our own gardens anyway, drive an easy to park car, save petrol money, walk if possible, switch out lights etc etc. It sounds very simplistic, and doubtless is, but if we were cutting our own caulis from our own gardens we would be a jolly sight happier. Not to mention healthier. Which is very relevant because we are told the most affluent nations, are also the unhappiest. A sortee into the societal sociology shows that very quickly.


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

As I said earlier I am studying to take a test for LEEDS Certification at work from the USGBC. In some ways I found there was a certain amount of touchy, feely "tree huggin" kind of attitude, exactly the kind that gets BW's dander up. It was a little off putting, kind of a hippiesh PETA attitude. But I also found when you get right down to it, most if not all of it makes sense, and there appears to be a lot we can do. In the building industry they are working to get as many new and reused buildings to undergo this certification. Some of it is a little pricier now that it's new, but over time the costs will go down as it becomes more commonplace. It turns out too that there are a lot of "Watchdog commities" that we don't know about. One I learned was the FSC http://www.fsc.org/en/ so it's nice to know there are groups out there looking out. Other ways I have found are to use rain barrels to collect rain to use for gardening to cut back on public water usage and over time we will be able to refit our homes with "graywater" systems to also cut back water usage. So there are apparently a whole lot of things going on out there, that are actually pretty cool. Read up. You don't have to hug the trees, just save a couple


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## bigwheel (May 26, 2006)

You dont think trees and most other plant life emit Co2 when the lights go out? They even have a name for it..reverse photosynthesis. You betta drop your pal Big Al an email and let him know about this new discovery so he can put it into his next book. Kindly tell him I will only chain saw the trees when they is misbehaving the worst..which is after dark. Thanks. 

bigwheel


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## bigwheel (May 26, 2006)

Well sorry...Algore and his army of godless left wing tree hugging morons just gets me riled up sometimes. I had much rather discuss more pleasant things myself. 

bigwheel


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## muskyhopeful (Jun 16, 2006)

It seems to me that most people who wholeheartedly buy into what the Al Gores of the world are selling, have never done any research into the other side of the argument. If someone presents evidence that refutes the doomsayers of the world, they are instantly branded as being a mouth piece for the corporations and oil companies of the world, and their opinions and research are dismissed out of hand. When in fact the doomsayers themselves also have agendas and careers that are so locked onto the idea that humanity is destroying the planet at a fantastic rate that they can allow nothing to change their minds. They are as biased in their own way as those they ridicule. That is the way of academia.

The truth no doubt lies somewhere in the middle, but the average Joe is not allowed to come to that conclusion because he is hammered from all angles with the idea that humanity sucks and the world is going to end if we don't all start riding bikes. Don't get me wrong, many of the things that some of you are attempting can make a difference, but the world is not coming to an end. I suggest that all of you that believe Al Gore knows all, please try reading some other books. "The Skeptical Environmentalist", "Meltdown, The Predictable Distortion of Global Warming by Scientists, Politicians, and the Media", "A Poverty of Reason: Sustainable Development and Economic Growth", "Global Warming in a Politically Correct Climate: How Truth Became Controversial".

Give a couple of those a try, you might be surprised that there are two sides to every story. 

Kevin

I like Muskies.


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## stavrogin (Jul 9, 2006)

MuskyHopeful, I don't think I have much chance of convincing you that there is evidence of a potentially catastrophic environmental event, not something that happens with a few days, but something that occurs over decades or even centuries. 

The thing that strikes me, however, is the fact that you apparently think that people who do not believe those things that you believe treat Al Gore as a God. A Messiah. A Christ. 

I don't think you have ever spoken to someone who does not share your opinion. People who believe that Al Gore may be correct concerning the environment do not necessarily treat him as some golden god who can do no wrong and speak no falsehood. But, as someone with influence who attempts to get the message out that we must treat this earth with more respect. The Earth may not be dying, but it is being affected by the actions of people. We must take care of this planet in much the same way a homeowner would have his home inspected for termites or mold. It is easier to treat a problem in its youth.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

I don't see how anyone can ignore the evidence. All you have to do is to compare the rate of change in the past few years to the rate of change throughout history. It's significant, not just in some nerdy statistical kind of way but in an obvious way that most of us can understand. It's the rapid rate of change, not the mere fact that temps are changing.

Suppose for the past 20 years it took you 15 minutes to cook hard boiled eggs. Lately you've noticed that it's been taking you longer and longer. Wouldn't you suspect something's going wrong?

I like this site. Straightforward and easy to read:

http://globalchange.gov/


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## katbalou (Nov 21, 2001)

devotay, 
i have a harmon (www.harmonstoves.com) low emissions, 1 ton of pellets burns down to about 2 cubic feet of ash that can be tilled into the garden. some areas of the country have pellets made from hardwood, some from corn. when i used oil to heat my home 6 yrs ago it was about $2500+ i now pay $280 a ton for pellets, using 3-5 tons per year and maybe 3 tanks of oil/yr. to heat my hot water. the stove goes on in october and stays on until may. pellets are pretty widely available, i get mine delivered all at once. you want to get the better grade as they burn better, more heat output and less waste.
also check www.pelletheat.org
kathee


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

Musky if you don't mind I am going to quote you and then paraphrase you to make my point.

I would paraphrase that to say "If someone presents evidence that refutes _the other side_, they are instantly branded as being a mouth piece for _the other side_, and their opinions and research are dismissed out of hand.

I would paraphrase to say "The truth no doubt lies somewhere in the middle, but the average Joe is not allowed to come to that conclusion because he is hammered from all angles with the idea that humanity sucks and the world is going to end if we don't all start riding bikes *or from the other side* that the "tree huggers" are all alarmists and only want for us all to hug and get along while the world goes to ****.

I am not trying to put words into your mouth but you hit upon a couple of items that you are really right about. That is that there are indeed 2 sides to every story, and both sides have valid points and both sides have their own particular alarmist views. Unfortunately both sides get so tied up in rhetoric and the "party line" that they will almost never work together.

It really comes down to a simple statement (imho) that Stavrogin put out there, and that is A lot of things happen in slow motion and take a lot of time. So much in fact that the change is almost imperceptible until wham it hits you in the face! This is what we face over the course of time. Think about this; have you ever seen rabbits, rats, and or cockroaches multiply? 2 become 4, 4 become 8, etc. they grow exponentially. That's happening to our population. If we continue to grow as a species in 100 years how many people will there be? How many people can the earth really hold and support? 
To use a kitchen analogy if we only order for the weekend and cannot get anything else until Tuesday what happens if we get hit unexpectedly on Monday? Simple, we're all out and all we can serve is salad and coffee. People go away hungry and don't come back.
Both sides just need to toss the rhetoric and name calling and work together to come up with a solution. There are many on both sides that do now, but of course the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Alright I'll shut up already and step off the soapbox. Next........:smiles:

By the way Kevin, I understand you like Muskies! But what I really want to know is how your wife feels about mushrooms?


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

honest restaurants.....there are dishonest restaurants?

This thread is bizarre.....why would you not do your part in conserving resources? As in any commercial kitchen, if it's a mess come up with a better operating procedure to maintain cleanliness....

The University I'm consulting with has a sustainable local foods cafeteria that uses non-wood smallwares, plates, cups, napkins....sugar cane, shale, bamboo..bags that breakdown within 4 weeks....they are just planted in the garden....YEP a garden using companion planting, beneficial bugs, etc....used by the cafeteria. They source from a mydrid of local farmers and ranchers. During the season at least 90% of their product is local....meats, cheese, veg, fruit... no frying....organic fruit, nuts, grains go into the baked goods....breads are made with levan....AND the kicker is the pricing is set for students....5 for $5, you can get 5 vegetables for lunch. Or meat and 3 for $6, we're talking local lamb, chicken, beef, trout.....Greek Salad for $4 with local artisinal farmstead feta....this whole project in the first in the nation to be run by a Nutrition & Dietitics Dept. not a dorm food service. The man running it was a buddy that helped form Clayton Farmer's Market with me and breaks down and uses whole critters (he's a Frenchman at heart). 

Today I'm overseeing grad students getting their RD's and CC at the same time (registered Dietitians and Certified Chef)....meeting with an alderwoman about the elementary school garden market....collaborating with the community will be key to it's success. This group has also been involved with the market for years making farm omelets for the past 3 years, using products from the market. Sometimes I feel like I'm herding turtles but in the long run it's educating the next generation of educators. 

Can you fathum having RD CC in our school lunch programs or hospitals that have been working with a sustainable agriculture thread? 

STL, Mo....cutting edge baby!!!

Oh yeah the first farmer-chef cooking class went very well, connecting rural and urban, having guest chefs demonstrate recipes using local products, bringing in local winery to pour, inviting media to hear the farm stories.....good food, good stories, good times. 5 more to go.


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## bigwheel (May 26, 2006)

Ahhh a rational voice crying in the wilderness. Thanks for your input. Hope you catch that Musky or turn into a Musky or whutever

bigwheel


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

Carl Sagan once wrote that we are in no danger of destroying the world, or life on this planet. We are only in danger of destroying ourselves. He's right. Once life has taken a hold it is very, very difficult to get rid of. Just look at the history of the earth. Mother Nature and the Universe have created catacylsmic events that we can't hope to come close to (barring nuclear annihilation) and yet life has continued. More than once, in the earth's history, have there been events that have wiped out the vast majority of living creatures, and yet life still goes on. No, we won't destroy "Mother Earth" or even damage her significantly. We will only succeed in destroying ourselves. No matter what we do she, and life will continue.

Now don't get me wrong, I would like the human race to survive. I think that a lot of what people are suggesting are great ideas, but I think they only really scratch the surface, and while making some differences, only prolong the inveitable. People love to talk about driving "hybrid" cars. Great, yes it saves on oil, but it also takes a considerable amount of petroleum to produce all the plastic that helps make those cars lighter so they get better gas mileage. People want to tout their opinions here on Chef Talk, but your computer is loaded with plastic, a petroleum product, and is powered by electricity, which is probably produced by coal powered plants. We stretch our natural resources to the limit yet we continue to find ways to prolong life, fight diseases, and find ways to "cheat" death, allowing more and more people to procreate and live longer, healthier lives thus using more and more of our resources. The solutions I have seen here are not really solutions, as I see it, but merely a way to prolong the inveitable outcome. It buys us some time, a generation or 2, maybe 3 or 4 at the most. If you really want to "save the planet" then you really need to be willing to make more changes than you have proposed here. Sustainable agriculture is part of that and so is the conservation of our limited natural resources, but it also includes demanding that corporations start seriously researching alternative fuels, the willingness to pay higher prices as new technologies are discovered and refined. It also includes really stepping up our space exploration program to help us discover ways to exploit the resources of other planets. The other option (one that really is not an option, in my opinion) is population control. Controling birthrates, encouraging euthanasia and the end to attempting to eradicate disease and starvation. Someone earlier used the rabbit analogy, and it goes for humans too, just over a longer period. The more people we allow to live, the more people there will be to reproduce and our population will continue to increase. All other animal populations have always been kept in check by Mother Nature, but we no longer have those checks and balances. Given that, our population will continue to grow and grow. Someday, dispite all such attempts we will outgrow our natural resources and ability to produce enough food

This is the middle ground between the 2 extreme views. Those on the side that view this as issue as a bunch of lies started by the "tree-hugging hippies" have their heads in the sand. Those that promote conservation and sustainable agriculture are fooling themselves if they really think it will make a difference in the long run. The reality is, if you want to save us from ourselves then some very drastic measures must be taken, anything else just slows down the inveitable.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Yep, dishonest ones.. the ones which slice off a piece of tuna, put some wasabi in the mayo and charge you $11?


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Yakety-yakety-yak yak yak. Like Aesop's fable of belling the cat, who's gonna take the plunge? Shroomgirl's description of her campus sounds great, I'd like to be a part of that, but it is in it's own little world. Don't get me wrong--I applaud and agree with their policies, but it's kinda like the monks of old, building a walled monasatary and living completly self-sustaining, albeit shut off from everyone else.

At 42 yrs of age and with the stresses of running my own biz, I come to a total paridigm shift a long time ago: 

Reality sucks. 

And the reality of the above discussed situation is, we can only save our world as we know it if there's a profit margin. Nothing wrong with that, sound ecology and saving money go hand in hand. 

But who's gonna bell the cat? Who will take the initiative? 

Who has the clout to take the initiative? 

Who has the will to take the initiative? Certainly not the N. American countries. Remember back in the '70's how much effort it took to convince the "big 3" auto makers to re-design engines to burn unleaded gas? The 3 made a calcualtion and figured it was cheaper to fight in court than it was to re-tool. Ozone layer? What ozone layer, use stick deodarant for gawd's sake and shut up. Even after loosing the 3 continued to build shoddy un-efficient cars until the competition (Japanese and Europeans) ate their lunch with better designed, safer, and more fuel effecient cars. (As a note, the 3 pulled the same crap when it came to seatbelts too...) Thus, it became profitable, or rather a matter of survival, for the 3 to build better cars.

The countries that matter the most won't acknowldge Kyoto simply because it interferes with big business, and big business drives the economy and the wealth of these countries. Things will have to get alot worse for big businesses to change their way of doing things before anything will get better.


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## bigwheel (May 26, 2006)

Great expose on the true goals and dogmas of the faith based religion of liberalism. Euthanasia is our pal. Kill the babies and save the whales. Pastor Algore be mighty proud of your faithfulness and insight no doubt. Hopefully Saint Carl is watching the action from his vantage point in the bowels of Mother Earth. 

bigwheel


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

Seriously Bigwheel you sound like an *** now. Can you provide an intelligent post to this discussion or are you going to continue posting stupid comments and sound like an idiot?
I'm not going to put you on my ignore list (nobody on there in fact) but I'm starting to understand why Devotay did.


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## free rider (May 23, 2006)

You are talking about the special setup one can create for aquarium algae and the process of combustion.


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## free rider (May 23, 2006)

As an economist, I entirely agree that it comes down to economics at the end of the day. Part of the problem is that business, especially large factories and the like, are given incentives to pollute. They can buy cheap pollution credits from the US govt and save tons by allowing the pollution instead. Make polluting more expensive than than not polluting and you'll see some change.


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## bigwheel (May 26, 2006)

Seriously doubt there be anything I could say which would sound intelligent to you and your pal. This is because the religion of liberalism operates on emotion..not logic. The typical adherent of liberalsim "feels" guilty about various things...mankind's abuse of Mother Earth for example. When evidence to the contrary arises it is dismissed out of hand because it does not agree with how the practitioner feels about the topic. Does not line up with their emotions in other words. Having no logical basis for their guilt and fear they quickly exhaust the meager store of hokey science supplied by other guilt ridden liberals such as Algore...which supposedly undergirds how they feel about the matter. This results in information to the contrary being rejected quickly followed by an attack on the messenger which is inevitably accompanied by name calling. Its also called a liberal emotional puke sessioin. Your post is a classic example of the genre. Thanks for the demonstration. 

bigwheel


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

Bigwheel, I agree with just about everyone else here on this board. You are an *** and bring no real insight into most of the discussions you have involved yourself in. It takes no real talent to take opposing views and spout a bunch of crap just for the sake of upsetting people. And come on, this persona you are playing is starting to get really annoying. Fine, if you want everyone to think you talk and act like a backwards hick from BFE Texas, then fine, but don't try and involve yourself in issues that are obviously above the head of someone who can't even spell "what", "computer" or any of the other words you can't seem to spell. Next time, think before you write, and if you can't come up with anything that furthers the conversation, then STOP typing.


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## free rider (May 23, 2006)

Totally agreed, Pete. Not only that, Bigwheel, but you are the only one getting emotional over this. While other posters have addressed the issues, all you have done is rant. That is clearly an emotional response. You augment your anger by shouting "liberal, liberal, liberal" because, it seems, it pushes your emotional buttons to hear the word.


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

BW, it's a shame you have no idea do you. All my post prior to the last one to you have essentially been begging you to say something intelligent, but you refuse to. You fall back on the regurgitation of what you have been told by the peers you choose to believe with no apparent (so far anyway) thought process of your own.
Unless you add some emotion to the logic you become a mindless droid that speaks by rote. Sound familiar.
You sir are no messenger. My only "attack" was to call you an *** and point out that you're acting like an idiot. That's not an attack, that's a statement of fact brought out by the sheer frustration of my inability to cajole you into making an intelligent, lucid post. Not to mention the fact that honestly you have been the only one on the attack.
Likewise I am quite sure.

You may find this very difficult to believe, but I have no doubt we could sit down over a nice bbq'd pig, down a couple of beers and have an intelligent conversation. I don't disagree on everythjing you say, but try and take 2 words out of your posts and we can talk better. Al Gore and Liberal (s) (ism) etc.

Gotta go, my basement is flooding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

Told ya BW you should have backed outta this a long time ago now you have went and stuck your foot in your mouth, sorry I can't help you man, the others are right. THINK BEFORE YOU TYPE. STAY ON TOPIC. Thats all anyone is asking of you. Ch is right, I read several of his post and he was dropping you hints all the way. 

Rgds Rook


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## bigwheel (May 26, 2006)

Ok..let us start over from square one. If the commie pinko left wing nature worshiping socialists will shut the **** up over the Henny Penny Sky is Falling marlarky and stifle the mention of their super hero..the inventer of the internet and hanging chads..so will I. I will also promise to refer to them as "progressives" or something similar like that. By the same token they welcome to call me a evil old gun toting right wing Bible Believing Christian. If the truth be knownst I can tolerate them a lot mo betta than they can tolerate me. Actually progressives is only tolerant to other progressives as this thread proves. I dont know how they can walk around claiming to be tolerant. Whuts up with that? Hope that basement dont get too deep. I'm praying for ya. 

bigwheel


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## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

I give up.

Rgds Rook


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Yakety-yakety-yak yak yak. Like Aesop's fable of belling the cat, who's gonna take the plunge? Shroomgirl's description of her campus sounds great, I'd like to be a part of that, but it is in it's own little world. Don't get me wrong--I applaud and agree with their policies, but it's kinda like the monks of old, building a walled monasatary and living completly self-sustaining, albeit shut off from everyone else.


own little world huh.....about 6 years ago next month I started a growers market in STL. first of it's kind. Growers selling what they raise. Today the market is going strong, there are now 5 additional markets in the area that are also grower only and they are thriving. Darlin' if you roll up your sleeves, have a vision and work the mission statement you'll succeed. oh yeah and from that cute little market several events that promote chefs using local products have started an even greater demand of wholesaling to restaurants. 

As to teaching the young and promoting eating fresh fruits and vegetables.....I see changes through the kids I've taught culinary camp coming through the market to select things to make. 

within the past ten years farmers markets have increased from 350 to over 3000 last count in the USA.....not my little world but the world we live in.

If you get time go back.....way back through the archives and see what changes have happened. Oh, and I talk at national conventions.....several communities have opted to make changes.....

Keep the faith.


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

This community is proud that we are tolerant- but not of bullies, bigwheel.


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

Oh Rook,   I swear to you this is the exact post I was going to make and you beat me to it.

BW, I give up trying to make peace and talk sensibly with you. No insults, no arguments, just I'm done with you.


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## bigwheel (May 26, 2006)

Ok try not to let the door hit you in the booty on the way out. As I said earlier..I do not make friends easy. They use to write that on my repoat cards from grade school ya know? I always wanted to play jump rope with the girls and stuff like that. 

bigwheel


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## bigwheel (May 26, 2006)

Well ducking out here for a miniute from the flaming barbs of naggin intolerant moderates to say...Well dang that sounds like a heckuva operation on the Farmers Mkt. deal. Congrats on the success of getting it going. Now is you Shroomgirl or is you aint? Seems like you/she is posting and also getting talked about in the thread. Whut is up with that? You trying to get us seasoned citizens cornfused here perhaps?

bigwheel


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## muskyhopeful (Jun 16, 2006)

I guess I'll dive back into this mess again. There were a couple posts that seemed to directly address my comments. I did notice that nobody stepped up and said, "hey, you know what, maybe I should do a little research into the other side of things," but that's to be expected.

Stavrogin:

Please notice that I first said the Al Gore(s) of this world. He is just a prominent figure in the push for panic. He fits in with the "majority" of scientists. If enough scientists on the politically correct side pound the table, they must be right. Who cares if there's also scientists that say things aren't that bad? I did not mean to imply that people had deified him in any way.

You also help to make my point by assuming that I haven't spoken to someone that believes differently than I do. Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I don't examine boths sides of an issue before I make decisions or voice an opinion. That's called thinking. As matter of fact, one of my best friends is a very active member of the WI Greens. He ran for governor of the state in the last election, and was mainly responsible for getting the Green Party and Libertarians equal time in the last televised debates. You think he and I have not had some interesting conversations? I've sampled his side of the rhetoric. Unfortunately he has not sampled mine, because he's sure he's right.

Kuan:

I have to ask you if you read the paragraphs on the first page of the link you supplied? You want to believe that conditions of the world are changing rapidly from what you've noted in your own experience? Has it been warmer, snowier, more hurricanes? Unfortunately you will need the nerdy statistics to quantify the changes I believe your speaking of, and there are statistics for both sides of the argument. Please look at the "The Skeptical Environmentalist". It's written by a statistician.

The rate of change CAN be compared to the rate of change in the past. This is from your link.

*"global change news*
*Abrupt Climate Change: New Research Supports Hypothesis that Ocean Currents Redistributed Heat During Rapid Warming and Cooling*

A paper published this week in the journal _Science_ supports the hypothesis that heat transfer by ocean currents--rather than global heating or cooling--may have been responsible for the global temperature patterns associated with the abrupt climate changes seen in the North Atlantic during the past 80,000 years. Authored by the University of Bremen's Frank Lamy and colleagues, the paper provides new evidence that Southern Hemisphere climate may not have changed in step with Northern Hemisphere climate. Though these new measurements of ocean surface temperature off Chile are consistent with information from Antarctic ice core samples, they still contradict measurements made on land in the Southern Hemisphere--suggesting additional research will be needed to resolve the issue. Scientists have found evidence of rapid and dramatic climate change that took place in a matter of decades during cool periods of the last 80,000 years in the North Atlantic."

Chrose:

You're right. Both sides do the same thing. That's why I offered a post that offered some alternative information which no one here even acknowledged. I looked at both sides of the issue before I formed my opinions. I also praised those of you out there that are making an effort.

When you say our population is out of control, I hope you don't mean the U.S. population, as it is relatively stable. Population growth world wide is less an issue than it was 10-20 years ago, but it is still a concern.

Thanks for reminding me my wife doesn't like mushrooms. What the **** is up with that anyway? That's a whole other topic.

Pete:

Wow. You are all over the place on this my friend. You are dead on about space exploration. A concerted effort to get into space should be started yesterday. The shuttles have accomplished very little in 20+ years, and we could be sitting on Mars as I write this, figuring a way to wrangle one of those iron asteroids for mining.

Alternative fuels are right around the corner. Check out a book called "The Nanocosm". Long lasting solar panels and hydrogen fuel cells are going to be a reality within the next 25 years. That's why I don't ride a bike, and will keep driving my Bonneville. Unfortunately, that same nanotechnology will also be applied to medicine, thus making those long lives that seem to bother you so much even longer.

I have to tell you, your comments on euthanasia and ending the quest to eradicate disease as a way to control population are weird and unsettling. I'll leave it at that.

Foodpump:

You make some good points about Kyoto, though I can't tell where you stand on the issue by reading them. I think any technologically and industrialized advanced country that would risk its economic stability and consequently its way of life, on such a treaty, while the third world countries of the world would be allowed to pollute, should be considered suicidal and kept under observation.

The planet is not in the dire straights that many believe. Technological advances will make a difference. The youth of this country are also leaning toward the green side. I have nieces and nephews that are so highly educated it's practically unbelievable, and they all have a green tint to them. I trust they will make the changes that need to be made in this world, and they'll make them in a reasonable manner. There's plenty of time.

I never learn to keep it short. Sorry.

Kevin

I like Muskies. My wife doesn't like Mushrooms.


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## bigwheel (May 26, 2006)

Yeppers thats whut I been trying to tell em. God is in charge of this mess. Let us relax..hang on to Him tight..and let Him sort it out. In the meantime we should sure be Good Stewards and Stewardises (flight attendants maybe?) of the glorious creation the Creator has graciously bestowed upon us. Let us Focus our bright lights onto the Creator. He can take care of His Creation. He can also snatch you out of the grave. Bhudda and the earth godess cant do kewlish stuff like that. 

bigwheel


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

There are two sides to every issue. 
I'm always excited to hear each side.
I do get turned off when I spend time listening to a regurgitated responce from the uninformed who are quick to side with the popular belief at the local gin mill.
I just hope this issue can remain focused on the major concern, our kids, kids.
pan


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## bigwheel (May 26, 2006)

Well since you looking at me in that tone of voice...can only let you rest assured you preaching to the choir my friend. Thanks for the exhortation. I even got a copy of Hillarys It takes a Village book around here some place most likely. I gonna have to get around to reading that thang one day

bigwheel


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## jim berman (Oct 28, 1999)

Unfortunately, this thread has spiraled *way *out of control. At this point it appears that personalities are coming into conflict and no longer are we sharing insight. It really is unfortunate that adults can not exchange ideas and opinions without being reduced to name calling. This thread is closed and I would encourage the catalyst to this action to strongly consider their actions prior to posting ever again on this site. At some point enough is enough... and growing up is not a bad idea.


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