# Cooking for young kids - with alcohol or without?



## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

I'm wondering how much alcohol is left after cooking with, say... wine. I know a little bit is left, but how bad would it be to feed a toddler risotto if you've added 1/2 cup of white wine with the rice and shallots at the beginning, before the process of adding stock and cooking the rice?

I have been avoiding alcohol completely, replacing it with water or stock whenever possible, but I'm wondering if I can start going back to using alcohol, or if it's better to continue avoiding it.


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

there is still a small amount of alcohol that doesn't cook off. No to the toddler eating risotto..........Chef Billyb


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

I wouldn't feed a toddler risotto that contained any alcohol.  When my kids were young, I didn't put alcohol in anything they were going to eat and substituted broth or water instead.  When I made risotto I replaced the wine with chicken broth.  The only time I would use alcohol was if I was making beef bourgignon but I would make a separate portion for them with no alcohol in it at all.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

OK sounds like what I've been doing so far, I'll just continue this way - thanks!


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## prairiechef (May 22, 2010)

Ummm... alcohol evaporates at 79 degrees celsius. There is no grey area. If it hits that temp... it evaporates.

Besides...125 ml at 13% alcohol is 16.25 ml of alcohol. How many portions you getting out of that? Let's say 4. Now it's 4 ml of alcohol per portion. _Before_ bringing it to temp. Let's _pretend_ 25% of the alcohol is left after cooking... it's 1 ml per person.

This is an issue?


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

As a matter of fact, PrairieChef, recent experiments show that your contention is incorrect.

We used to think that all the alcohol burned off, leaving only flavor behind. Turns out this is not true. Depending on conditions, cooking style, and the actual dish, there is always some alcohol left. Just not always the same amount. Sometimes, it turns out, there's a high percentage of residual alcohol---as much as 70%.


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

I have no problem serving my children stuff cooked with wine. I realize that not everything boils off, as KYHeirloomer rightly points out, but I do not believe that the amount left from 1/4 cup braised for a while is significant in the sense that it's going to hurt them. I think the common habit in many places (e.g. France, Italy, Germany, Japan...) of letting 7-year-olds drink "pink" water (or the equivalent) in small quantities is perfectly reasonable -- what's a tablespoon of wine going to hurt?

My problem is the reverse. I have no problem with it, but my son (he's 5) doesn't like the taste and will refuse to eat things that included more than the faintest dab of wine in the making. So I can't, for example, braise meat in a classic combination of wine, stock, and vegetables, because even though the 1/2 cup or so I'll try to cut down to will reduce, in several hours' braising, to nothing but flavor, it turns out it's the flavor that Sam hates. He'd probably be happy to taste some super-sweet daiquiri kind of thing, but something that actually tastes like what it is, no.


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## prairiechef (May 22, 2010)

Water evaporates at 100 degrees.

Alchohol at 79.

"Depending on conditions, cooking style, and the actual dish" well... no kidding. If we don't get the temp high enough, it will not evaporate. If the alchohol is absorbed into something, sure... But physical laws being what they are, liquids turn to gases at a constant temperature... we're talking about a long, slow simmer in a dish of risotto, followed by more long, slow simmering after the wine has been cooked off.

Even so, lets say we "only" get 30% evaporation due to the temp staying too low. It leaves us with 11.4 ml of alchohol. At four portions, 2.8 ml per per person, combined with food...  I still don't see the issue. If we were talking about liquor filled chocolates, sure... but risotto? Stew? Really? I don't see how 3 ml of alchohol when consumed with a meal is something to be concerned about.

And this is assuming a toddler would eat a full portion... which, of course, they won't. So we're probably back to the 1 ml amount.


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## gunnar (Apr 3, 2008)

The more the better ..especially if they are teething./img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif (that's an ironic, roll the eyes face there...just so there is no confusion. )

course, I have used the old scotch/whiskey on the gums treatment for a teething infant. it works ...not a cure all but it does help. ..... especially if you both use it according to weight dosage./img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif (that's a mostly joking face, don't get wasted with babies FFS and then go blaming me)


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## abefroman (Mar 12, 2005)

Probably not a good idea, especially if they are real young.

I never use wine in my risotto, so it shouldn't make a huge difference, plus they will have something to look forward to when they get old enough.

Basically this would be the equivlent of giving them a few sips of wine.


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

> Basically this would be the equivlent of giving them a few sips of wine.


Sorry, but I have to disagree. The amount of alcohol left in the dish after cooking is so small that it really is a non issue. Once you take in how diluted the alcohol becomes when mixed with the food and other liquids and then the amount that evaporates out and you come up with a percentage that is so small that it is not going to affect a child unless they ate a very large amount. Besides, I don't understand the hang up of letting a young child have an occasional taste of wine or beer. I don't buy that those tiny amounts of alcohol, on rare occasions has any effect on a child's development. I just don't see my bourbon accented BBQ sauce or beer braised brats as providing my daughter with enough alcohol to be of any consequence. Of course, parents have a right to be concerned about the welfare of thier child, and if they feel that they need to ban all alcohol from thier child's life then that is what they should do. I just find it a little extreme to go that far. Don't get me wrong, I'm not offering my 3 year old a bottle of beer or a glass of wine, but she has had a sip and that one sip is usually enough for her to decide that she doesn't like it.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

I agree with those who say it's ok to feed my kids food made with alcohol.  I grew up in a different culture, greeks don't have a hint of puritanical beliefs, and alcohol is not considered evil.  We always had sips of alcohol or wine with seltzer, especially at dinner parties.  As far back as I can remember we used to have little juice glasses of beer with our bbq.

The benefits of introducing small amounts of alcohol to children is that they don't usually grow up to be irresponsible drinkers.  When I went away to college I didn't feel the need to get plastered at frat parties or "go out drinking" which was the most common leisure activity (boring!).  Alcohol was a taboo to them, but not to me and all the foreign exchange students and kids of immigrants like me felt the same... we would have a glass of wine with our dinner and that was it.  Of course I would never even dream in imposing this logic to american friends but I will follow this same course with my child.  It's just hard to grasp the intention of a country who recruits kids to the military to possibly die in a war at the age of 18, but not allow them to drink until 21.  Seems a bit senseless.

Needless to say, I don't believe that a minute amount of alcohol in risotto would cause any harmful effects.  And don't forget that hundreds of years ago water was considered unsafe to drink and most of the population drank weak wine and ale instead, children and adults alike.


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

100 % agree with you Koukouvagia,

My grandparents and their parents and so on ...all cooked with wine, sherry, whatever. There are so many places in Europe today that just do it as the the norm.

Being responsible for what quantity your child drinks is a different story.

Cooking with it ? there are just too many dishes my family uses it for. I have taken on the custom as well.

In a risotto ? it is a personal call FF, when I look back at all things that were tolerated in the past and we now get squimish at today, well it kind of puts things all into perspective for me.

When I was a baby I needed "Gripe Water", trust me, I am no worse for the wear. Now they make it without alcohol........."They took the edge off and now thats why you have what you have today." Screamers..... /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif


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## b.adams (Apr 3, 2009)

I remember in 7th grade we had a pot luck and one girl bought in Brandied Pears....everyone was like wooooot!

 I would rather feed my kid rissotto made with wine than have my kid drink a can of soda loaded with HFCS and phosphoric acid.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

Oh I remember Gripe Water well.  My son had a hard time settling himself to sleep when he was a baby but for some reason the taste (?)  of Gripe Water  did something for him and he was able to settle.  It got to the point with him that we would literally put his soother into the jar and shake it and the taste on his toungue was enough for him.

My kids have had tastes of beer and wine and both hate it.  I remember as a kid tasting my dad's beer and to this day I can't stand beer. 

Now that my kids are older they get whatever I make whether it is cooked with alcohol or not.. but when they were young and growing so fast I wanted to be careful.


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## mikelm (Dec 23, 2000)

B. Adams...

*"I would rather feed my kid rissotto made with wine than have my kid drink a can of soda loaded with HFCS and phosphoric acid."*

You make a really good point there! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/thumb.gif

Mike


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## mamadelbosque (Jan 29, 2010)

It has never even crossed my mind not to cook w/ wine/liquor for fear of my child ingesting alcohol... The amount of alcohol that you use when cooking food is so tiny, let alone thats left after some boils/evaporates off is just way too tiny to worry about. If you've ever given your child cough meds they've had *FAR* more alcohol than they could ever get in food... Just seems like a crazy thing to worry about. :Shrug


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## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

> I remember as a kid tasting my dad's beer and to this day I can't stand beer.


I remember being about 10 years old and the family was moving to South Bend, Indiana. We were having a new house built, and my father was trying to save a few bucks by doing some things himself.

One of these tasks was digging the hole for the septic tank. I was enslaved to assist. So one hot early summer day Dad and I were digging away. Tough, dirty work. He suggested we take a break. I collapsed on the ground, he went in the house. Moments later he came out with an ice cold can of Stroh's beer in each hand. He handed one to me. To this day it is still the best beer I ever had.

I think that if children grow up where the moderate use of alcohol is commonplace they will grow up with a responsible respect for it, and not be overly tempted by a mysterious, forbidden fruit.

mjb.


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Koukouvagia, your words were thoughtfully selected and to the point. Nicely said /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

FF,

With our three children we didn't keep them away from foods that were cooked with proper proportions of wine in it. Nor would we keep them from eating an occasional chocolate chip cookie prepared with vanilla extract either.

That being said...

We were always careful (especially when our children were young) when introducing *any* new food to them.

How old?

dan


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

I've never considered this to be an issue.  The small amounts of wine used in a dish, say a risotto or a lasagne etc burn off pretty much anyway during the cooking process, leaving only a residual amount.  Both my teens have grown up eating food cooked in this manner and are fit, healthy, intelligent young adults.

I've always cooked with wine - whereas I wouldn't ever serve anything just flambed (sp?) like pancakes to a very young child, wine added for flavour only with a longish cooking process - surely that can't hurt.

Here's an interesting fact - I bought some mouthwash yesterday for the family, and it has a great big label on it saying "NO ALCOHOL".  There must be many items out there that we use for our children that do contain it, cough syrup as mentioned being one.  I was quite surpised by this as I never new there was ever any in mouthwash (brand name is named after a Mr Lister...).

Teamfat - I agree with what you say about introducing children to alcohol , gently,  Otherwise when they hit legal age depending on the local age limit, they won't know how it will affect them. They'll come of age, go out, scoot down lots of it and could get into all sorts of strife.  If they know how it affects them, it is much better.

Anyhow, enough soapbox, back OT.  FrenchFries, if it is of concern to you you, leave it out.  Or add it right at the beginning so it can cook off as much as possible.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Thanks a lot guys. I ended up using the white wine. I feel the arguments for using alcohol were pretty strong.

I think my kid must have had about one teaspoon of the risotto altogether, so probably not much alcohol at all. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif


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## andy mckelvay (Dec 28, 2009)

Children behave like they're drunk most of the time anyway. You won't notice the difference =)


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Andy McKelvay said:


> Children behave like they're drunk most of the time anyway. You won't notice the difference =)


Hahaha.... good one! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/drinkbeer.gif


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

Sometimes when the kids were teething and nothing else worked, I'd dunk their pacifier/dummy in brandy. Not recomending it at all, just relating a bit of our past,, but heck, it worked for a bit and everyone got some peace and quiet.  By the time you shake it off before giving it to them, there can't be more than a couple of drops on it.  Doctors would probably frown about it nowadays, but a doctor actually recommended I give it a go when things became unbearable.  Old School/ New school.....


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

Here's another old school trick my parents used, but would probably get you a visit from social services nowadays.  When we had a bad chest cold Mom and Dad would rub our chests with Metholatum, place a warm towel over top and give us a small shot of whiskey.  It sure made sleeping much easier!


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Ours was the same except the Whiskey was mixed with honey and lemon


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Darn... sounds like you guys had some fun childhoods! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

Pete said:


> Here's another old school trick my parents used, but would probably get you a visit from social services nowadays. When we had a bad chest cold Mom and Dad would rub our chests with Metholatum, place a warm towel over top and give us a small shot of whiskey. It sure made sleeping much easier!


/img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif Precisely what I'm saying re Social Services. Now I'm sure it's a handed down practice in many places, and still used as well. You can try all the panadol you like and all the gum rubs, teething rings, rusks for chewing on that you like. Do they work? Sometimes. Somewhat. When they don't - old fashioned treatment can, if it's within your own beliefs and ethics etc etc etc.


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## rheadewey (Jun 7, 2010)

maybe a gradeschooler could handle it but for a toddler? nah...pass!


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2010)

" I was quite surpised by this as I never new there was ever any in mouthwash (brand name is named after a Mr Lister...)."

OH YES there is a TON of alcohol in mouthwash! My father was an alcoholic and would drink mouthwash when he came to my house because I'd lock up all the liquor. After he would leave, I'd find bottles of mouthwash stashed in some pretty weird places.


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## fabiola (Jun 14, 2010)

I try to avoid using alcohol when I know my kids are going to eat the meal. I use it only in a couple of dishes (and a small amount) like the spinach risotto. But, again, I don't think that such a small amount should hurt your kid.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Hic.

BDL


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

Pete said:


> Here's another old school trick my parents used, but would probably get you a visit from social services nowadays. When we had a bad chest cold Mom and Dad would rub our chests with Metholatum, place a warm towel over top and give us a small shot of whiskey. It sure made sleeping much easier!


I wouldn't recommend it, myself, and never gave kids hard alcohol like that (though if they wanted to taste the wine i'd let them have a teaspoon of it - they never liked it) but it sure seems less dubious than what would be officially (by any social services) a perfectly "acceptable" practice of prescribing young children amphetamines ("speed" in my day, ritalin today) to be taken for the rest of their lives!

Speaking of social services, when my son was 6, we went on vacation in austria and i liked the dark beer there. I would drink a small glass with supper. Since i grew up with lots of alcohol around me i never liked it /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif and never drank till well into adulthood and even then, half a glass of wine is my max. So i get drunk with practically nothing. We went to a park after supper and i was climbing on some of the things there with the kids and started laughing hilariously when i couldn't climb back down, and couldn;t stop laughing. My son, in italian, at the top of his lungs, kept yelling "Mummy! why do you have to drink all that beer and get drunk every night ! " I was thinking, good thing he's yelling in italian or they'd be calling social services on ME - practically a tee totaler.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Since most cooking requires the alcohol to be cooked out I really do not think it matters. Watch the sugar and salt content more as sugar makes the kids hyper and then you want a drink.


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## onei (Jun 14, 2010)

I would say watch the salt content, very young children are salt intolerant so they shouldn't have salt at all.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Originally Posted by *Onei* 


> I would say watch the salt content, very young children are salt intolerant so they shouldn't have salt at all.


Is there a scintilla of scientific support for this little nugget of nutritional knowledge?

BDL


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## philosophos (Jun 22, 2010)

Just a little science conjecture with the ethanol vs. cooking; there'd have to be some retained in a dish. Evaporated ethanol is heavier than air, so partial pressure would demand a certain percentage to be retained within the dish. Things like stirring, fans, lids, surface area:volume, cooking time etc. would all alter this quantity. In the fish world, we deal with this uncertainty all the time through disolved oxygen (or in planted tanks, CO2). From that experience, you learn that it takes a lot of time and a very great body of knowledge as both a chemist and a physicist to calculate these things.

In my opinion, you're better off just calculating the maximum ml's of ethanol in the dish, estimating a serving size, and figuring in for mg/kg. From there, go bug some pediatricians about the NOAEL's (no adverse effect limit) for children and ethanol; they should be able to point you to something about monkies or rats getting drunk that will give you a good guide line. That's just me and my thoughts on calculated risk taking.


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## onei (Jun 14, 2010)

boar_d_laze said:


> Originally Posted by *Onei*
> 
> Is there a scintilla of scientific support for this little nugget of nutritional knowledge?
> 
> BDL


Err, yes. Only very small amounts are need by babies and toddlers so you shouldn't add extra salt to their food. Google the subject if you don't believe me.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

To this point, none of the "science" in this thread has been very good. Not to be snarky, but it's so much easier to look it up than try to channel your ex-lab partner's better study habits.

There's a USDA "alcohol burn-off" chart running around the net, based on a study done at the U of Washingtion showing _approximate_ residual alcohol content after various cooking times and methods.

When you look at the chart remember that the percentages are expressed as fractions of the fractional content of the original beverage which itself is a fraction of the entire dish. So if 35% of the alcohol of one cup of (20%) sherry which comprises 50% of a sauce, and the portion size is 2 oz... the amount of alcohol is 7/100 of an ounce. Not a lot.

You also have to apply some common sense regarding the alcoholic content of reductions. _Trust the Force, Luke_. If you can't taste the alcohol _per se_, your sauce or stew or whatever is not terribly alcoholic.

As I understand it, allowing your kids to eat food which has some amount of cooked off alcohol is more a matter of personal belief than health -- filtered through common sense. I've certainly never seen any study which showed adverse effects from alcohol in the small quantities that are left on the plate in most dishes.

I certainly cooked with alcohol making family meals when my kids were little, and it doesn't seem to have done them any harm. Both are smarter than me; one's getting his PhD in physics; the other just graduated with her BA (_cum laude_) and is going on to grad school her own bad self.

But I'm also aware that it's a sensitive subject and would never cook with alcohol to serve to others' children without their approval.

BDL


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

Just an interesting fact - Italian cakes practically always have some alcohol (and it;s not burned off) and this means also kids' birthday cakes.  Since they almost exclusively make genoise cake in pastry shops and genoise hasn't got the greatest texture so it's traditionally soaked with syrup which is traditionally flavored with some horrendous liqueur like alkermes or rosolio.  I don;t know a single person who likes it, much less kids, but i haven't found many pastry shop cakes without it, and most kids birthday cakes are pink with these liqueurs. 

Not much alcohol at all, but still, it's uncooked alcohol. 

I doubt there is any harm done, except to the taste buds.  Most kids here don;t like cake (no wonder) (most adults don;t like cakes either for that matter) (except mine!)

Now the fact that they do it doesn;t mean it's healthy, but just what would half a tsp of alcohol actually do to a kid?  Does anyone know the medical consequences?  Why is it dangerous? What happens?


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## onei (Jun 14, 2010)

> But I'm also aware that it's a sensitive subject and would never cook with alcohol to serve to others' children without their approval.


That is very responsible. But tell me, would you serve other peoples young children a bit of extra salt without their consent?


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Presumably directed to me, and originally Posted by *Onei* 


> That is very responsible. But tell me, would you serve other peoples young children a bit of extra salt without their consent?


Onei,

Unless I knew it was a particular hobby-horse, yes. Since I do know it's a concern of yours I wouldn't salt your kid's food, or provide anything very salty for her (or him) either.

By the way, I still await your evidence that "a bit of extra salt" is harmful to toddlers.

BDL


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Onei said:


> ...Google the subject if you don't believe me.


OK, what Google search terms do you suggest? The ones I've tried result in a vary mixed bag of hearsay and opinion with what little scientific reports available show little adverse effects.


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## philosophos (Jun 22, 2010)

> There's a USDA "alcohol burn-off" chart running around the net, based on a study done at the U of Washingtion showing _approximate_ residual alcohol content after various cooking times and methods.


That chart doesn't account for even using a lid or not. Toss a lid on and you'll be retaining far more ethanol as a matter of condensation and partial pressure. There's no accounting for the mass, density, exposed surface area or internal temperature of what's being baked or flamed either. For that matter, burn time on a flambe would alter things as well. This is why I was recommending against trying to play science games and to just work out a worst case scenario of volume per serving.

Let's be honest though; everyone is dancing around the issue of NOAEL (No Observable Adverse Effect Level). I'm sure not finding results anywhere. My guess is that the thought of putting any ethanol in a child as a study is going to send someone off the deep end, regardless of levels. Could you imagine trying to propose this as a study group for FDA trials? Not going to happen. I think this leaves us with the option of trying to approximate the impact on other animals, and hoping that the neurology of humans is similar enough. Perhaps guessing at 22mg/dl by estimating the quantity of blood in your child (kind of a morbid thought) would be worth while, as that number has been tossed around as a threshold number for adults.

Outside of that, perhaps the fact that most kids don't seem to be nuts about the taste of ethanol might be worth considering; less booze in the food might make for fewer complaints. I sure couldn't stand the taste of ethanol when I was young, no matter how much I wanted to.


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## onei (Jun 14, 2010)

Hi boar_d_laze

Sorry for the delay in my response I have been away for a couple of days.

In response to your last post...

I know this doesn't qualify as scientific evidence but I presume the advice given in the links below has come about as a result of scientific evidence. I might be wrong though? Let me know what you think.

http://www.eatwell.gov.uk/agesandstages/children/yrtoddler/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6983017.stm

http://www.babycentre.co.uk/baby/startingsolids/saltexpert/

http://www.babycentre.co.uk/toddler/nutrition/howtofeed/

http://www.hpherts.nhs.uk/Documents...lets/Children/How much salt children CNES.pdf

The main concern seems to be be a potential rise in blood pressure from additional salt intake.

Please note: I did a Google search for 'salt and toddlers' and these were the first five results to show up. I am Googling from the UK so if repeat the search your results might be different depending on what country you are searching from.



boar_d_laze


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## onei (Jun 14, 2010)

PeteMcCracken said:


> OK, what Google search terms do you suggest? The ones I've tried result in a vary mixed bag of hearsay and opinion with what little scientific reports available show little adverse effects.


Hi

I used 'salt and toddlers' as the search phrase. In my response to boar_d_laze (see above) I stated that the main concern seems to be a potential rise in blood pressure if extra salt is added to young children's food. I have added the links below if you would like to have a look.

Would it be possible to point me in the direction of the results that you found were a 'mixed bag of hearsay and opinion'? It would be quite interesting to have a look. Anyway here are the links.

http://www.eatwell.gov.uk/agesandstages/children/yrtoddler/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6983017.stm

http://www.babycentre.co.uk/baby/startingsolids/saltexpert/

http://www.babycentre.co.uk/toddler/nutrition/howtofeed/

http://www.hpherts.nhs.uk/Documents...lets/Children/How much salt children CNES.pdf


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

I cannot remember the specific search terms, however, the list included the ones you listed.

Interestingly, all of the sites you cited are based in the UK and I could not locate any corresponding information from anywhere outside the UK.

I'll keep looking...

Oh, BTW, the last cite is at least 6 years old, is there nothing more recent?


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## onei (Jun 14, 2010)

Just because all of the sources are from UK and one of the items is over 6 years old doesn't make any of it irrelevant.

The evidence is strong so lets just say I am right for now, unless you can show something to the contrary. Yes?


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Originally Posted by *Onei* 


> The evidence is strong so lets just say I am right for now, unless you can show something to the contrary. Yes?


No. Emphatically no. The "evidence" you present does not support your contention.

With the exception of the one limited to infants (included because you're not reading through?), they ALL suggest 2g (>3/4tsp table salt) of salt a day is fine for a toddler.

By itself, that suggests "a bit of extra salt" is not a problem.

But more importantly, that 2 grams is a "maximum daily allowance," not a one-time absolute maximum. NOT ONE of your sources suggest a child who happens to have twice that amount on occasion will suffer any ill effects at all.

Also, the 2gm allowance needs to be understood within the context of the rather limited total quantity of food most toddlers eat. It's also worth pointing out that despite the way the charts in your links are organized there's a world of difference between a 1 year old and a 3 year old, and between individual toddlers as well.

By the way, the NHS pdf file puts the salt limits in better context than the other links -- although still written down to the lowest common denominator and less than fully informative. The NHS preaches that your child diet's should eschew very salty foods. _But they also say that toddlers "should start to eat the same foods as the rest of the family." _

Furthermore, and perhaps more important their argument against salt is that "too much salt" is a learned behavior and tends to lead towards hyper-tension and susceptibility to strokes down the road. While they don't want you to teach your very young child to look forward to salty snacks, as I wrote earlier the NHS document neither says nor implies that a "bit of extra salt" is harmful.

QED.

I respect your right to control your own child's diet. If you want to keep as much salt as possible out of it -- fine. However, your statements are contraverted by the very evidence you brought forth.

BDL


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Let them drink wine, its healthier then soda pop


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Ed Buchanan said:


> Let them drink wine, its healthier then soda pop


But that's the point, I would never let him drink soda pop. Well obviously when he's older, once in a while - but not even 2 year-old? No way.

He enjoys drinking carbonated water though, even though he grimaces all the way through it. Kinda like when he eats a meyer lemon.


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## kathleensanders (Jul 24, 2012)

*Alcohol left in food after cooking!*

This information was initially established by FDA research; a study was subsequently published in the April 1992 edition of the Journal of the American Dietetic
Association (JADA). The citation is on PubMed, but the JADA issues prior to 1993 are not available online. Library citation is: J Am Diet Assoc. 1992 Apr;92(4):486-8. The authors are: Augustin J, Augustin E, Cutrufelli RL, Hagen SR, Teitzel C. [Department of Food Science and Toxicology, Food Research Center, Moscow, ID 83843.]

*Cooking With Alcohol*

 *Q.* When cooking with beer or alcohol, does all of the alcohol evaporate?

*A.* No. The following chart should be helpful.

*PREPARATION METHOD**Alcohol Retained*No heat application, immediate consumption100%No heat application, overnight storage70%Alcohol ingredient added to boiling liquid, and removed from heat 85%Flamed 75%Baked, approximately 25 minutes, alcohol ingredient
on surface of mixture (not stirred in)45%
 



*Baked/simmered, alcohol ingredient stirred into mixture*


15 minutes40%30 minutes35%1 hour25%1.5 hours20%2 hours10%2.5 hours 5%


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## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

I may be wrong, but i doubt all of those numbers.


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