# How much should a line cook be paid?



## bloodymary (May 9, 2017)

I am currently working $12 per hour for a 40 hour week. Do you think this is a fair wage? Should I ask for a raise?

Servers in my restaurant are making $8 per hour + tips. They are making three times the minimum wage vs. me making just above average wage.

Thoughts? Comments?


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## redbeerd cantu (Aug 7, 2013)

How long have you worked there? What was your starting wage? What state do you live in?

RedBeerd


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## picturesup (Nov 14, 2016)

Where? What City? 

What kind of restaurant?

How many stations can you work?

Besides cook what else do you have to do? Prep? Ordering?

For me JUST doing line cook work even well, that's your job...It's about going above and beyond.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Oh jeez.... don't compare your job to a server's, if you want tips, then become a server. 

If you don't think the pay is fair, then why did you accept the job?


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

We probably need more info. 12 an hour isn't bad, but it is not great either. A lot depends on where you are, what type of restaurant it is, how much experience you have, what station you are working, etc. 

But I would say that 12 an hour isn't egregiously low or anything. Welcome to the wonderful world of professional cooking!

Minimum wage is only 7.25, so you make well above that. Unless you live in a state which has higher min wage. But again, you don't say where you live. 

And I would also add, make your peace with not being paid as much as servers do. I agree that it is one of the biggest negative issues facing our industry...that is, the wage gap between front and back...but it doesn't seem like it will be fixed anytime soon. There are a few pioneering restaurants out there that are trying things to close this gap, but they are few and far between. 

If you want to make a lot of money, unfortunately, best to find another career. If you want to make ends meet, you'll most likely need 2 jobs or 1 that pays overtime, at least until you get bumped to sous and/or head chef and make a "livable" income. Be prepared to pay your dues.


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## bloodymary (May 9, 2017)

I am in Wisconsin. I work 40 hours, 5 days a week + overtime. Besides cooking full time, I am involved with the day to day operations with prep, cleaning and inventory. My starting wage was $8 per hour.

I would not want to be a server. I prefer my career. I love what I do for a living. The lead cook and I click. We have a lot of fun in the kitchen and we make our own rules. We communicate without even speaking. We basically can read each others minds. I'm usually ahead of him before he asks, unless some unforeseen complication throws us off our game.

We do have perks. We can eat whatever we want. Take breaks when needed. We can even drink alcolhol if we wanted to during our shift. I laugh my butt off when he loses his shit and starts throwing french fries at people whenever they piss him off. He is a lovable pain in the ass.

It is rewarding, despite the long hours, hard work and personal sacrifice. I feel that long term, I have more job security whereas servers come and go. Besides, I don't have the patience to deal with the guests BS needs and demands. Their loud, ear piercing, screamy kids would drive me insane.

I just wanted to know from my peers if this pay rate is normal for a person like me, a line cook.

Does $12 hr. seem like a fair pay rate?

Personally, I think our servers are overpaid trash, but that is only my opinion.


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## chefbuba (Feb 17, 2010)

Minimum wage in my state is $11. Keep at it and you will eventually make more money as you gain more experience.


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## redbeerd cantu (Aug 7, 2013)

Minimum wage in Wisconsin is $7.25/hr. You're killing it, as far as unskilled labor goes.

Grit your teeth, keep your head down, say, "Yes, Chef," and you'll only move up. Not rich, but up.

Peace

RedBeerd


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## capecodchef (Jan 19, 2014)

Min. Wage in my state is also $11 and will be $12 in 2018.  We start our dish washers at $12 and linecooks can make up to 18. A one bedroom apartment, however, starts at about $1500 per month, so it's all relative.


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## bloodymary (May 9, 2017)

I work 40 hours a week + overtime. I rent a 2 bedroom house on a lake for $920 and I have a sideline as an Airbnb to help make ends meet.


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

All experience, duties, minimum wage, and special skills/schools/training aside, IMO what youre worth, what you should be paid for being there, all reduces down to how valuable, and hard to replace an asset you are for the place youre working for. 
And there are two sides to that equation....how THEY guage that, and how YOU guage it. Ideally, everyone's happy, give and take equally, you work your ass off, their profits and growth reflect a good investment in you, and you feel exhausted but fairly compensated. 
Of course the two viewpoints dont always agree, thats when a sitdown is needed to level the field, or a new job search is in order. 
FWIW....
Youre in a common cooks predicament--you love what you do, love who you work with, but dont feel youre paid quite enough for it. But if you leave, you could end in a higher paying job you hate. 
Been there done that, as have most chefs and cooks in here I'd fully wager.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

Just realize that, for the most part, cook's wages suck (and wages in general country wide suck) and it just kind of comes with the territory. It's a pretty big problem industry wide and doesn't seem to be getting any better.


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## peachcreek (Sep 21, 2001)

"The work is difficult. The hours are long. But at least I get paid almost nothing."

-my quote about our profession.....


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## capecodchef (Jan 19, 2014)

To better understand why cook wages suck,please read the thread on what a restaurant can expect for a net profit margin. When you realize that the average million dollar unit makes 1.8%, or $18,000 profit, you will understand.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

CapeCodChef said:


> To better understand why cook wages suck,please read the thread on what a restaurant can expect for a net profit margin. When you realize that the average million dollar unit makes 1.8%, or $18,000 profit, you will understand.


That's only part of the story though. I know you are an owner (and I 100% respect that and what you do) would have a different perspective than a line cook, but the bottom line is wages suck for cooks across the board.

The reason why cook wages suck is a very complicated, multi-faceted issue that can't be whittled down to any one thing...including profit margin. It's even in some ways a societal issue that can't be resolved until we see some major changes in how restaurants charge customers.

Anyways, yes the restaurant business is tough, but it is no excuse for paying a sub-livable wage. We can do better.


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

I'll add a rant later, but for now...

To the original poster, you're getting paid fine for a line cook, given location etc as already mentioned. 

Otherwise, I agree with Someday. It's a complicated issue with multiple factors. And having been a restaurant owner responsible for paying my employees, I hated not being able to pay the cook more but I also listened to too many customers complaining about my high prices for various dishes based nothing more than their perception, not actual food, labor and overhead. At first I just listened but eventually I let them know I costed everything out on the computer, I didn't make them up out of thin air. And this while other places charged as much or more for the same dish. 

Alright, be back later.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Well of course the wages suck for cooks, just stop and think how many other restaurants are within walking distance. Too much competition, so the customer is used to throwing their weight around. Combine that with the fact that the cook has no contact with the customer ( what I dont see, I dont know OR care about) and its no wonder why the customer tips the server 15%, and tells the server to pass his/her compliments along to " the chef".

No, we are our own problem, too much competition.....


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## bloodymary (May 9, 2017)

Thank you for your responses. Your thoughts and opinions mean a lot to me.

Tell me what you think about the owners.

My restaurant charges $18 for five tiger shrimp deep fried in Shore Lunch. They balk at giving the guest anything more than 1/16th of a lemon wedge. I think that is absurd, but its always something with them. "Tear that lettuce in half! Slice the tomato thinner!" Its already so thin I can hardly pick one up without it falling apart.

"Don't give the customer anything unless they ask! We're not paying you to fill the bins!"I can't stress how important prep is for a busy dinner service. Not having the ingredients we need prepared in advance slows us down during service forces us to have to run harder to make-up for not having that available to us. The wait time for a ticket will increase exponently.

They just bought the building in December and did a lot of renovations, but neglected the kitchen. They bought new refrigerators and misc. but didn't bother to replace the motor for the fan on the hood/vent. It breaks down a lot. Shuts the entire kitchen down during service.

We had an issue the other day when the fryer wasn't up to temperature and she wanted me to hold the ticket and keep the family waiting on an order of wings, even though I had the sandwiches and an order of wings grilled on the charbroiler to get the order out for the hungry family waiting for their dinner. "Don't argue with me! This is my kitchen! I want consistency!" She says. She doesn't understand that sometimes you have to make exceptions when the fryers are down. The person who ate the wings ate them down to the bone, they were delicious.

They make a lot of food that goes to waste. They fancy themselves gourmets and made 24 rotisserie chickens, but only sold six last Sunday. There is so much salt and herb rub on them it could choke a horse. They don't get that these spices also cost money but our advice is not wanted.

They have fancy smoked meats and the owner insists on frying smoked pork belly on the flat top at 500 degrees and making a hell of a mess for us when we come in to work. It's already cooked. The strips of pork belly only need to have a little golden brown color. It all falls on deaf ears. He cranks up the grill without concern that we can't even brown the buns for the sandwiches at that temperature without burning them and throwing them away. The gas consumed is also a great waste.

His wife is a control freak and has to be a speed bump in the kitchen trying to help us. She constantly reminds us this is her kitchen and will do as she pleases. She interferes with the line and we just communicate unspoken words to one another, hoping she will go back to the FOH to fuss over them. She's always portioning things in baggies and the worst was putting BBQ sauce in baggies. 

I keep reminding myself I love my job, but it doesn't get any easier working for people who are so cheap, they squeak. I work hard. I've paid my dues, but there has to be another way to make more money in this business. I think we should be paid more and not have to worry about rent.


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

BloodyMary said:


> Thank you for your responses. Your thoughts and opinions mean a lot to me.
> 
> Tell me what you think about the owners.
> 
> ...


Hi BloodyMary.........Too bad your last comments were not in your original post.

What you are going through is not new at all.

This type of management goes on everywhere.

Your control freak is totally afraid of losing control, and there's not anything you can do for them as they will never change.

With all the waste you mention, it would seem like you're getting a good deal with your wage.

On a similar note, I was reading an article the other day that stated that people who run businesses that can't pay a living wage to their workers are in serious trouble these days. They are being touted as a perfect example of entitlement and should be shut down.

All I can say is "wow."

So now businesses are being attacked because they should pay more (think McDonalds and $15.00 per hour wage)

What ever happened to get a second or third job to pay the bills and make end meet? No that can't happen....we have to make businesses pay out more even though the profit margin is so thin we will lose money paying the help more.

What the heck happened?


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## bloodymary (May 9, 2017)

I also run an Airbnb out of my cottage to help make ends meet. It's not bad considering I'm hardly there on the weekends.

I also do work a second job for a breakfast type restaurant.

My point is that the owners are wasteful. They overpay themselves and the wait staff, but then get stingy with us making our jobs a lot harder than it has to be. I feel that since I am doing twice the amount of work for them personally, I should be paid more.

The control freak wants to do most of the prep herself, but she only does a modest amount (or rather what she feels will be enough) and then leaves the kitchen completely trashed and disorganized. The insert pans, cutlery and tools we'll need are in the dishwashing area piled up. Food all over the floor and work areas. Every day I'll come in and the grill is black with grease and carbon. It's no fun cooking on a filthy flat top grill. So, when I clock in, I have to do a lot of extra prep, cleaning and reorganization before the rush. If this is not done, we will run out of ingredients we need to keep the dinner service running smoothly. When i clock out, that grill is spotless, the dishes are done and the floor is swept and mopped. I try not to leave prep behind because they will just use it and I'll have to cut more anyway.

When I left Sunday, We had a large sheet pan full of pulled pork. The owners took that home to eat themselves and their family. Yesterday, I did not have enough left to sell for sandwiches and tacos. I also had to cut into the expensive and time consuming shelled tiger shrimp to cover for the lack of enough smaller shrimp we use for the tacos, because they ate all that too. They just started selling flatbread pizza and we ran out of cheese because she neglected to buy enough that I asked for.

I mention that this kitchen needs to be kept clean and organized and then takes offense and she is pissy with me the rest of the night.


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## capecodchef (Jan 19, 2014)

Chefross said:


> Hi BloodyMary.........Too bad your last comments were not in your original post.
> 
> What you are going through is not new at all.
> 
> ...


 You nailed it. What happened is we've spoiled a generation. They should be renamed the "entitled generation " as that fits far better than millennials. BloodMary loves his/her job but feels the pay should be better and "shouldn't have to worry about the rent". News flash, when an owner can no longer afford to pay the rent, the doors close and now that $12/hr. doesn't look quite as bad. Sound like the owners suck at his/her particular restaurant, but there are an equal number of lousy employees to lousy owners. Pre-portioning helps control waste and provides consistency, something crucial to profitability. Yes, the control freak owner goes too far with the BBQ sauce, but the OP has no idea what pressure the owner is going through to make ends meet. Most line employees have little idea of the costs involved in running a business and what goes into that $18 fried shrimp dinner, besides the rent, food and labor costs. I have a modest operation in a small building. My rent is over $3k per month, Then there's the $1500 monthly electric bill, the $500 gas bill, the $200 phone bill, the $100 internet bill, the $400 advertising bill (which should be 4x that), the $300 workmans comp bill, the $300 business policy bill, the $200 accounting bill, the $500 repair bill, the $1500 credit card fee processor bill, the $1000 paper goods bill, the $2000 credit card bill, the $500 real estate tax bill, the $400 trash removal bill, the $300 linen bill, the $500 chemicals bill.... etc, etc, etc. THEN, there's the food cost. After all that is paid out of that $18 shrimp plate, I have to pay $12 to $18/hr plus 15% payroll taxes to the gov't, for dishwashers, prep, and short order cooks, many of which complain about their low wages just like BloodyMary, yet think nothing of walking in 20-40 minutes late into their shift, work 15 mins and cut out for a smoke every 30 minutes, text on their phoned all day long, pull from the new product letting the old rot beside it, argue with the servers thinking they all make too much money (never thinking that on days where we do 20 covers the cooks wages don't suffer yet the servers are paid sub-min. wages). After ALL THAT, an owner hopes there's a penny or three out of every dollar to pay him/herself some compensation for the many hours working both in and out of the restaurant, the pressures and responsibility of running an operation where so many people rely on its very existence, and the huge risk one took to get it open and hope it stays that way.

/end rant.


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

Mary.

     My only suggestion is that you find another job. I won't respond to everything you posted in detail, just that you are in a bad environment and should find somewhere else to work. 

FOH and BOH should be working together. This is the responsibility of management. Losing tickets, taking random dishes from the pass, etc are not acceptable behaviors and the staff should have been trained how to interact in a more appropriate way with kitchen. 

The kitchen neglect and clueless interference on the part of the owners tells me they have little to no quality experience in operating a restaurant. 

A good restaurant operates as a complete team, including both FOH and BOH working together in a systematic, controlled way. FOH is not your enemy and BOH is not the enemy of FOH.

What money they make is not your concern. How to work together to provide a seamless experience for the customer is. 

Others have brought up good valid points regarding costs and the difficulty of paying a "living wage". Certainly things to think about. 

But overall, your situation will not change unless the owners do and that won't happen soon enough. 

You might learn the proper way to do things by doing the opposite of what you are shown in a bad environment

Or you can learn by observing how things are done the right way in a well-run, professional environment. 

From all you've posted, it would seem you are in the former. Look for the latter and move on.


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## bloodymary (May 9, 2017)

This is why I asked, not out of entitlement but to get some honest feedback about wages.

I'm living on $12 per hour. Our perspectives are different. At my restaurant, I believe servers are overpaid and we are underpaid by comparison and the BOH suffers for it.

It's too bad that many restaurants operate in a non-communicative manner. I am truthful and tell it like it is. Some people don't like that. They only hear what they want to hear instead. If I talk frankly I am accused of being argumentative.

I am trying to compensate for the ignorance and neglect of the owners. I work hard. I am never late. I am busting my back trying to make a career out of this, but I can see where its going because the owners are consuming their profits. If I should leave here to go work for someone else, I would just be facing the same opposition elsewhere.

As for breaks, I should be entitled to one when Im working a long shift to use the bathroom, or stop for ten minutes just to catch some air, or smoke a cig. We are not slaves. We are only human. Sometimes I am so busy I can't even stop to drink water. If I do, that control freak senses it. She comes in and lectures about keeping our drinking water covered in the kitchen at all times so I take water and drink it immediately just to avoid that. She's quite a handful.

I am comparing the shrimp to other restaurants that serve more for the same price as we do. If the customer gets shortchanged, they wont order it and they will go elsewhere for a better deal. For example, Bubba Gump Shrimp Co. offers 8 tiger shrimp for $18 plus fries, dip and a lemon wedge. It is popular and it sells. We sell a standard five with no extras.


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

"I am truthful and tell it like it is"  Or like you think it is without seeing the whole picture.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

> Originally Posted by *BloodyMary*
> 
> At my restaurant, I believe servers are overpaid and we are underpaid by comparison and the BOH suffers for it.


Early in my career, I waited tables for about 5 years. The reason I did it as long as I did was because I recognized what a racket it is. I was making 1/2 of minimum wage but absolutely killing it in the tip department. My mother tried to talk me into going back to college. I told her that even though she had a 4 year degree in education and had been teaching for numerous years, I was making more money as a waiter than she was as a teacher.

Facts that haven't changed in my 40+ years in the biz

1.) FOH makes more money than BOH.

2.) Profit margin for restaurants is small at best *(substantiating numbers from a 2010 report / restaurants with checks under $15 have a profit of 3 percent / checks from $15 to $24.99 have a profit margin of 3.5 percent / checks of $25 and over have a profit of 1.8 percent)

3.) I don't know of any solutions that I would be allowed to implement

I am not being snarky :~) but if you know of a solution, I might consider being an owner again; until then I am cured of ownership.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

CapeCodChef said:


> You nailed it. What happened is we've spoiled a generation. They should be renamed the "entitled generation " as that fits far better than millennials. BloodMary loves his/her job but feels the pay should be better and "shouldn't have to worry about the rent". News flash, when an owner can no longer afford to pay the rent, the doors close and now that $12/hr. doesn't look quite as bad.


Whoa whoa whoa. First off, wanting to be able to make a livable wage does not make someone entitled. People rail against millenials all the time for being "entitled," or lazy, or flaky, etc. I've noticed some of these traits too. But I've also noticed those traits in baby boomers and gen-xers. I've met just as many lazy "old" cooks as I have lazy young cooks. Being a dirty, burned out, past 50 line cook is just as bad as being a lazy millenial.

Yes, millenials can be entitled as an aggregate, I agree...but painting with such a broad brush can be dangerous and disingenuous.

And if anyone in this thread thinks that cook's pay across the board isn't substandard then that's a huge problem.

I could make a /rant about entitled owners...who think it is OK to work their employees to the bone, work when they are sick, get called in on their days off, work off the clock, dock their pay...all for $8 an hour...and I could go on. And the carrot dangling at the end of all that hard work and sacrifice...what, an extra .25 an hour after 6mo? A year?

And I'm pretty sure BloodyMary's suggestion about "not having to worry about the rent" was not having to worry about HER rent (i.e. I can't make rent on my apartment this month cause I make $12 an hour) not the business's rent.

Anyways, this isn't a simple problem. There are a number of contributing factors to low wages beyond owners vs. cooks. A lot of it is societal..meaning the tipping system, immigration, and expectation of cheap food. Some of it is "tradition" based bias...i.e. "I had to start at the bottom and work my way up."

But again, lets not pretend that most cooks are appropriately compensated. I spent too much of my career cleaning my couch for gas money to make it to work, or juggling all my bills so I could still have a roof over my head. 


Chefross said:


> On a similar note, I was reading an article the other day that stated that people who run businesses that can't pay a living wage to their workers are in serious trouble these days. They are being touted as a perfect example of entitlement and should be shut down.
> 
> All I can say is "wow."
> 
> ...


You don't think that businesses have an obligation to pay their workers fairly and at a livable wage? Again, this is a HUGE issue, but the Federal minimum wage is STAGGERINGLY outdated, and has no bearing on any type of livable wage in any part of the country. You simply can NOT live on $7.25 an hour. Many states try to mitigate this by increasing min wage a bit, but it does little to help.

And yes, a second or third(lol) job is an option, for some people. My argument would be that this is the United States of America, the greatest(?) country on earth, and if we need to tell people that they need 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet then that is a problem. That is also an ass backwards way of looking at it. We (as an industry) should be looking at solutions for ways for people to earn higher wages, not just working more hours at crap wages.

There are also ways to have more pay equity for FoH and BoH without affecting profit margin. The simplest is to add a service charge to the bill and then distribute the money among the employees. This model, unfortunately, has not really proven to be successful (outside of extreme high end dining) in this country, but it is an effective method.


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

Someday the whole issue of wages in this country is dependent on knowledge, experience and the type of job.

Even theoretical scientists don't make a lot of money unless they are famous.

Why is it that plumbers, electricians, doctors and lawyers make big bucks?

Their talents are wanted and needed.

Supply and demand?

Hardly.

Cooks and Chefs are needed in society as well, but for some reason, their profession is not looked upon the same as those of the above mentioned.

Until that changes, neither will wages.

And.....yes....we do have to tell people to get 2-3 jobs, obviously since somewhere in their upbringing they were never taught how to take care of themselves....hence the entitlement issue.


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## bloodymary (May 9, 2017)

If I had enough hours (or more pay) I wouldn't need a second job.

The problem with "getting a second job" is trying to find a shift that is compatible with the first job, or having any time left for myself or my family.

My hours and days are subject to change without notice. The first job interferes with my second job. The hours are all over the place. One day I might work 3-close, the next 11-close. Forget anything on the weekend, or holidays. 

Oh, and the find a better job is another interesting comment. Well, there aren't that many jobs to be had. The job market is very competitive and the offerings are slim. Most require an education in a particular field and a few years experience. I especially like the comment about entitlement. I work = I am entitled to get paid a fair and competitive wage. Not just the minimum wage. Servers at my restaurant are paid 3x the minimum wage, plus tips. There is no equality for the kitchen staff. We are not paid equal to our talent or commensurate with our experience, either.


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

WOW!!!!! Not one Chef commenting on " Take breaks when needed. We can even drink alcolhol if we wanted to during our shift". This kitchen sounds more like an unsupervised daycare center. Do me a favor! The next time the health Dept comes in, you and the lead cook raise your classes and toast them with a BloodyMary and will see how long that perk lasts.


BloodyMary said:


> Thank you for your responses. Your thoughts and opinions mean a lot to me.
> 
> Tell me what you think about the owners.
> 
> ...





BloodyMary said:


> This is why I asked, not out of entitlement but to get some honest feedback about wages.
> 
> I'm living on $12 per hour. Our perspectives are different. At my restaurant, I believe servers are overpaid and we are underpaid by comparison and the BOH suffers for it.
> 
> ...





BloodyMary said:


> I am in Wisconsin. I work 40 hours, 5 days a week + overtime. Besides cooking full time, I am involved with the day to day operations with prep, cleaning and inventory. My starting wage was $8 per hour.
> 
> I would not want to be a server. I prefer my career. I love what I do for a living. The lead cook and I click. We have a lot of fun in the kitchen and we make our own rules. We communicate without even speaking. We basically can read each others minds. I'm usually ahead of him before he asks, unless some unforeseen complication throws us off our game.
> 
> ...


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

ChefBillyB your pointing out examples that have made this OP out as a whiner. This person is only looking at her job from one point of view. Do you really expect an employee to give two cents about the operating costs of the place they work, if they don't have a vetted interest themselves?.

What's even more of a concern to me that might bring this whole thread to a conclusion is the growing problem of a lack of cooks..

But the real issue here is not that there is a shortage of cooks.

Businesses refuse to pay a living wage.

Cooks make less money than the servers that deliver the food.

This has to change.

The public MUST change their view of restaurants and food.

Read this:

https://www.finedininglovers.com/stories/the-sustainability-of-the-chef/


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Don't have the stats at hand but the reason service personnel come and go is almost all are working toward a specific financial goal.
Tuition is prolly the most common factor.
My industry career was sporadic after I got my degree but the lure of this business proved too great and I never truly "retired" until this past holiday season.
Bartender on funeral leave?
Wait staff no call no show?
Need someone with experience for a multiple day festival catering?
An event cake on 2 day notice?
Hundreds of assorted sweets for corporate holiday baskets?
Sure....then I would quote some rediculous sum and most times they wouldn't even blink.

Need a third cook for Mother's Day?
No thanks .... you couldn't pay me enuf to sweat until dehydrated and come home with heat rash on my rear.
Not to mention the forever after scars from sharps and fry baskets.

Sounds like a Bud commercial but BOH I salute you.
Only the most dedicated can make it work out as a career.


mimi


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## bloodymary (May 9, 2017)

No, I don't care about the owners because they are a pain in the ass. If I leave, the other cooks will go with me. We have kitchen experience. They don't have ANY experience.

And frankly, Chef Billy, I don't work for you and I don't care for you making me out to be a little bitch when I simply asked to discuss the situation about the pay. I'm doing the work of three people having to clean up after the owners and fix their mistakes. They are making us all suffer, our work is suffering and it has to change.


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

My gosh Bloody Mary, your lashing out at anyone who doesn't see things your way is only going to have the effect of shooting yourself in the foot....as has already happened once. Virtually everyone in here who is answering you is a seasoned professional and has no reason to deliberately make you look bad. Your continued hostility makes me wonder what you want, or expect, out of posting here.

You include many details about your job and personal feelings, pros offer their opinions, straight from the hip, no sugar glaze, and you seem to take it personally. I'm not sure you're gonna get what you may want from this thread. What you're making, for your area, as well as several relaxed rules and perks that many of us haven't even dreamed about sounds more than fair to most of us here. The only way it seems not fair to you seems to be in comparison to the servers. Yet as has been pointed out, there IS no comparison--servers live in a separate country upon the same planet, so far as the restaurant industry is concerned.

If you're not happy leave--for every handful of unhappy cooks there's at least one employer not happy with the cook(s) they currently have.

It's all about finding the right match. Rather than venting emotionally, then striking out at those who are offering their own views that don't pander to yours, perhaps you should be taking positive steps in your actual job to make it more to your liking, since you don't seem to look at a job change as a viable option, at least not yet.


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## capecodchef (Jan 19, 2014)

Mary. Lash out all you want at those who disagree but you need to look inside yourself a bit IMHO. You say you started at $8 and yet you whine incessantly about your low wage which is 50% higher than what you accepted when hired. To me, in our area, $12/ hr. is a horrible wage for a line cook. As stated earlier, that's where we start our dishwashers. But our cost of living is dramatically different than yours. There are no 2 bedroom houses for under $2000/mo., never mind $900. If someone in my kitchen complained about "only" making 50% more than when hired,  they would be shown the door.

 You're kidding yourself if you really believe then kitchen would empty of cooks if you walked out that door, but you're clearly unhappy, and should do just that. We all have one shot at this life and you need to do what makes you happy. I

Lastly, I don't get your beef with the FOH. Servers don't have it easy. Dealing with the public as a server is no easy task. The public can be very demanding and degrading at times. And there's no way your owners are paying them 3x min. wage..... Over $21 per hour plus tips in your state? Sorry, that's jut not credible. I love my servers, many of whom make more than I do as an owner,  making over $1500+ per week. It's not easy going through life treated like a paid servant as many are treated horribly by a demanding and fickle public. But they do it with a smile, efficiency, and grace. I love and respect them all as they are the public face and ambassadors of MY business! The sooner you realize they aren't the enemy, the better of you will be. Keep treating them as "bubbleheads" and that's exactly what they'll be for you.


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## bloodymary (May 9, 2017)

The minimum wage here for servers is 2.45. They are making $8.00. I never said they made $21 per hour.

You are making this into what you want it to be. I am not lashing out. I simply told Chef Billy to back off. There is a difference.

Anyway, nevermind. Just forget it. I'm too tired to keep up with this thread anymore.


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## capecodchef (Jan 19, 2014)

BloodyMary said:


> The minimum wage here for servers is 2.45. They are making $8.00. I never said they made $21 per hour.
> 
> You are making this into what you want it to be. I am not lashing out. I simply told Chef Billy to back off. There is a difference.
> 
> Anyway, nevermind. Just forget it. I'm too tired to keep up with this thread anymore.


No, you said 3x minimum, so I assumed and you know what they say about assumptions. Doesn't change the fast that there's no reason to resent the FOH. Working for tips has it's ups and downs. They can't rely on a consistent income. You can, for what it's worth.

Not a bad idea to let this thread die anyway. The only info worth gleaning is if you're that unhappy with your situation, change it and move on to a better environment. Line cooks that are good at what they do and are good employees can ALWAYS find work.


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

BloodyMary, Use your time as a front line cook to gain experience. In most cases it shouldn't be a career choice rather, a stepping stone to a better paying position. All of the Chefs in this site have gone through what you are going through. Front line cooks are never paid what they're worth. I have never seen any of my cooks telling me they're over paid. This job should be viewed for what it is. Try to work in a few restaurants with different menus. Be the person in the kitchen to ask for more knowledge in the operation of how a kitchen works. I wish you the best in your career........ChefBillyB


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

BloodyMary said:


> I am currently working $12 per hour for a 40 hour week. Do you think this is a fair wage? I am in Wisconsin


Research I have done (from several sources) shows me the average rate of pay for a line cook in Milwaukee, Wisconsin is in the range of $10.17-10.75.


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## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

I like this girl, new on here and you have managed to piss off a bunch of people and get a forum topic locked. Serious line cook badass.  Some people take things way to serious on here.  We cook food,  if I wanted a real job I would have been a doctor or lawyer.  Cheers


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## peachcreek (Sep 21, 2001)

I used to joke that cooking was for those who scoff at the concept of having to make money to survive.


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## peachcreek (Sep 21, 2001)

What I honestly think about the idea of what cooks are paid? Its shitty. Its unfair. Its part of a flawed antiquated out-of-touch system. From what the owners and managers are weighing in and saying... when they talk about making less than a 2% profit on a huge investment.... is everybody from the top down is getting screwed.

And not only that? But not a single person is moving in any direction to change that.

I've had a habit of running away from the traditional modes of restaurant cooking.

My method for fixing the compensation issue when I opened a restaurant in 1997 was this.

Everyone who worked for me was part of my crew. Every server also had to have kitchen duties. All employees were paid regular minimum wage to begin with. All tips were pooled.

Since all the crew were cross-trained for several duties in the kitchen I could keep my crew size small- for every person I had to pay wages? The staff had to share tips. It also made so when it got busy the crew would have to decide to either buck up and perform or know when to add a person. And don't forget: if food or service suffer the tips go down. So everybody was making $7.00 or more/hr wages and then about another whatever an hour in tips. I had very low staff turnover. I had an in line labor cost.

The system works. Its fair. It makes people work as a team. Assholes don't last long. The list of benefits goes on and on.

I know I'm screaming this out into the Void. I'm okay with that.

Tessa


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

Is the restaurant still open?


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## peachcreek (Sep 21, 2001)

The restaurant was sold in 2010.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Peachcreek said:


> .
> The system works. Its fair. It makes people work as a team. Assholes don't last long. The list of benefits goes on and on.


Yes it does and I know of places that use it however... all it takes is one disgruntled person...and a whole can of worms gets opened, on state (CA) and federal level. Don't ask how I know.


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## peachcreek (Sep 21, 2001)

I do not understand what you mean by can of worms. We had all legal help, we took taxes out of tips. Can of worms? I ran a restaurant not a bait shop. We had nothing to fear because we operated above board.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

a brief glimpse from http://www.calrest.org/employer-mandated-tip-pooling-guidelines.html

*Practical guidelines for compliance *
As a result of the Ninth Circuit decision in _Oregon Rest.,_ a company located in the jurisdiction of the Ninth Circuit which includes California is no longer allowed to impose a tip pool that allows employees who are not directly in the line of service to be a part of a tip pool arrangement. "Back of the house" employees like cooks, kitchen staff and dishwashers who have no contact with the customer going forward are barred from sharing in a tip pool even in a state where the tip credit does not apply. The pending appeal before the U.S. Supreme Court may change this law but for now, mandatory tip pools cannot include members of the team without any direct contact with the customer.

As a result, going forward, employers should take the following steps to limit liability on tip pooling claims:

Only include employees who actually contribute to the chain of service and per industry custom regularly are subject to receiving tips. Such individuals typically include those who provide direct service to the customer.However, the chain of service industry custom and case law does support employees with even limited direct customer contact to receive a smaller percentage of the tip pool as the industry custom has evolved to a recognition of these employees being essential to the chain of service. For example, cooks who prepare food in front of the customers or dishwashers who also serve as food runners might be allowed to be part of the mandatory tip pool.
Rely more on what the employee actually does in his/her job versus their job title. For example, an employee carrying the title of "waitress" whose only job is to prepare food outside the view of patrons or without personal contact with patrons will likely not be in a tip pool. Also an employee who has greater contact with the customer should receive a greater percentage of the tip pool than employees who have less direct interaction with the patron.
Do not distribute any portion of a mandatory tip pool to any manager or supervisor, even if that manager or supervisor provides direct table service and/or the tip was left by the patron specifically for that individual.
Make sure that the tip pool is distributed to participating employees in a reasonable manner, proportionate with the employees' direct interaction with the customers.
Review your current tip pooling arrangement and revise it as needed to comply with this new decision.
For more specific questions, as to prevention and allowable tip pooling policies, it is important to consult competent legal counsel who understands both the hospitality industry and wage and hour issues and can analyze those issues given your specific circumstances and policies.



 [IMG]http://www.calrest.org/uploads/2/6/1/5/26153474/we_1.png[/IMG]

This report was reviewed for legal accuracy and updated in 2017 by Wilson Elser Moskowitz Edelman & Dicker LLP.


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## peachcreek (Sep 21, 2001)

All of our employees actively participated in order taking and serving. Like I said, we did it right.


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## halb (May 25, 2015)

cheflayne said:


> a brief glimpse from http://www.calrest.org/employer-mandated-tip-pooling-guidelines.html


 This and a million other reasons is why I recommend that everybody tear the California page out of their Hagstroms.


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## mini chef (Jan 4, 2011)

Where im from in Florida I wouldnt cook for less than $15-16 an hour.

When i moved to NYC, 1 Michelin starred place payed me $9 and change to be a chef de partie.

Had a offer at a hospital for $25 an hour, full benefits, & unionized. Moral of the story.. get a union job.

I quit my Michelin starred job to go make donuts for an artisinal donut shop. He payed me more than they ever would of. That's when i left the industry.

Was in it for 8 years and realized it was awful. Being passionate about something doesnt mean that you have to work 16 hour days with no breaks 6 days a week. I work as a sales rep for a distributor now and life is damn good. Im home by 5 everyday and can pee whenever I want.

$12 an hour sucks, theres no one that can say it doesnt. You cant retire at $12 an hour no matter how much you enjoy your job.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

This thread just speaks to the complexity of the issue. Fact is, cooks are almost always under compensated. We all know that. I get annoyed when I hear things like "just get a 2nd or 3rd job" because I believe that if you have gainful employment and work full time, you should be able to make a livable wage. I'm not talking about getting rich or anything, but where you can pay your bills and have a little left over to save or have fun. 

Owners like CapeCodChef who do the right thing and pay a livable wage, or at least try to, are the exception. 

People/chefs consistently complain about the nationwide cook shortage but seemingly do little to encourage retention. Lots of chefs don't train, and work you to death with subsistence wages. The main reasons for people leaving the industry is low compensation, too many hours and bad work environments. I hear a lot of complaining about workers and "millennials" but almost nothing done to try and fix the situation. Just more complaining. 

An industry wide problem is going to take the whole industry to fix...


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

Yeah, on the one hand we have owners that complain endlessly about the inability to find good help and on the other we have good cooks that can't survive on their wages. There's probably a link between the two that we're missing./img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif


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## linecookliz (Jun 8, 2017)

I live in Sacramento, CA and I currently get paid $11/hour. The minimum wage is $10. The average rent here for a 1 bedroom is about $1500+/month. I got paid $12/hour at my old job for warming up frozen food, lol. I don't think the owners at the restaurant I work for now are doing that well thus the low wage but I am also just starting out.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Peachcreek said:


> All of our employees actively participated in order taking and serving. Like I said, we did it right.


I am glad it worked out for you. I wanted to implement the same idea, but had one person who was against it and so was not legally allowed to do it because it has to be voluntary. Also I was strongly advised against it by several members of the legal profession and the EDD because all it takes is for one employee to take you to the EDD and the employer gets hung out to dry.

"All of our employees actively participated in order taking and serving" This was explained to me that unless they did it for the shift in question, than they could not be included in that particular shift's pool. If they supervised any other employees, they could not be included. Think waiter busboy relationship. The scenarios went on and on. I am not saying it is absolute gospel, I am just relating my experience with attempting to implement a tip pool. Any cases that have been decided or any wording on record, is ambiguous at best.

I was in an EDD hearing on an unrelated issue and the officer presiding that day took an instant dislike to my former employee. At one point he told her to sit down and not say another word or he might just find against her. He turned to me and said while he empathized with me but he had no recourse other than to find the case in favor of my former employee. He said that in court of law the you are innocent until proven guilty but unfortunately this wasn't a court of law and the employer is guilty unless he can prove otherwise.


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## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

cheflayne said:


> a brief glimpse from http://www.calrest.org/employer-mandated-tip-pooling-guidelines.html
> 
> *Practical guidelines for compliance *
> 
> ...


I know you worked in the BVIs but this is the absolute bullshit that made me leave the states 12 years ago? Do fancy laws make life easier? Usually just rich old white guys with to much time on their hands. Cheers anyway. in STT now I'll buy u a beer


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

I'm impressed how far this thread has come and what other frustrations have evolved from it.

Unfortunately there are still many places out there that pool tips and include management in the pool.

Take a look at a different perspective.

One could argue that the product (food and service) is the combined efforts of both the FOH and BOH, so the tip should be divided appropriately.

Who says the server is the only one to deserve the tip?. Why not the cook, or dishwasher?

In a perfect world, there would be no slackers who take advantage of others while still collecting their share of the tips. Perhaps this is the reason for the Circuit Court's decision.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

This is way OT but has bugging me for a while now.
There is only one man left standing in the cafeteria style game (in my area).
Out of a high of one every few miles there is only one left in the town next door.
You go thru the line, get your choices then carry the tray to whichever table you want and settle in.
No sooner than you are settled a dining room person comes by and leaves a card with what I assume is said persons name on it.

What the heck am I supposed to do?
I never ask them for even a refill of water.
Tip?
Why should I tip?

mimi


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

flipflopgirl said:


> What the heck am I supposed to do?
> I never ask them for even a refill of water.
> Tip?
> Why should I tip?


Yes leave them a tip. Write on the card "Here's a tip for you...look for a better job."


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## halb (May 25, 2015)

Same thing with take-out, had that argument with my wife recently. She insists that you should leave a tip. For who, the person who answered the phone?


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

Ok. I'll jump in on this one. Don't tip, Mimi. A number of years ago I started seriously questioning when and why i tip. I see tip jars everywhere I go. 

But when I buy coffee, the attendant hands me a cup, typically empty and then I have to fill it from a vacuum pump. So i don't see where a tip is warranted for ringing up 

my purchase and expecting me to get my own product. 

     Now I've heard the opinion that you should tip for take out. As a customer I have to ask why? At the Auto parts store, the clerk may disappear into the storage and come back with my request, hand it to me and take the payment. No tipping involved. I pay and leave. How is that different from take out? In a restaurant, the employee may disappear into the kitchen, come back with a bag and hand it to me and ring up the order.  I pay and leave….a tip?  

I've decided that for me, tipping is only for waitstaff when I'm eating a sit down meal in the traditional fashion. If I do all the work, I don't see what the tip is for.


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

Careful Chefwriter, youll get me started on cocktail waitresses. Considered the cream of crop in tipping jobs in many areas. But seriously what do they really do for the most part, to deserve a 20% tip on 30 bucks worth of drinks? 
(uh oh, i think I can sense Mimi glaring at meeee!) 
I mean besides cutting up with ya, maybe laughing at yer silly jokes, 
for the most part they saddle up to the server slot, put your drink on 
a tray and bring it to you. But try NOT tipping at the same bar restaurant 
a few times, and see what kind of service, or lack of it, you start getting. 
Its...its attention blackmail.


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## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

What they do is dress skimpy, smile, and serve drinks.  Can't knock a girl for using her assets.  Just one level below a stripper and 2 levels between a you know what but they probably make more in one hour than a line cook makes in a shift.  Not sure who the sucker is??????


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

I hate these yearly BOH vs FOH marathons....tried to stay above it all but now that I have gone from overpaid trash to hooker I gotta step in for all of the members for whom tips make up most of their take home pay.

Most of y'all don't know anything about me so here it is in a nutshell.
Age 18 was "discovered" by my mentor while bartending at DFW Airport.
He saw something in me that oh so suave Persian man and took me on to mentor.
His wife taught me how to dress and apply makeup and to walk in heels.
I learned the hospitality industry top to bottom soup to nuts.
Then I proceeded to break his heart when upon graduation I chose the medical field over having the world at my feet ( his words not mine).

I went on to deliver babies for almost 30 years but never forgot a thing they taught me.
Stayed in the loop and picked up jobs here and there.
Like a utility player on a baseball team there was seldom a slot I couldn't slide into ( particularly bartending and catering) I always insisted on top dollar ( an average year I claimed around 100K for income tax between the FT and odd jobs).

Keep in mind when looking for a job....
The real money is in the upper crust hotels, country clubs and exclusive restaurants that pour ages old whiskey in a humidor room.
Having a nice pair of......legs will take you far I will admit....but bimbo is not in my CV.

So knowing all of that why would you ever want to work for barely enuf money to survive much less buy a new car every year... or own a home and start a family.
Altho there are a few Chefs on CT who have been able to do so.... 
@Pete and @ChefBillyB and a few others come to mind but most of you will have to throw in the towel when you realize 12 bucks an hour will just not cut it.
No matter how much booze you are allowed to consume while on the clock.

mimi

OBTW.... Check out the pix of some guy mooning his female co worker in the "woman in the kitchen" thread.
It is the opposite of what being an adult is all about....and totally tasteless as well.

m


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

FFG I figured we would hear from you after the last few posts.  The restaurants I have worked in have not had the friction between the front and back of house.  They were well structured with defined sets of responsibilities and staffed with adults.  This is going downhill from a poor start.  I don't see how anyone can work a shift in high heels,  I have trouble with my berks.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

You haven't lived until you have served a couple thousand dollars worth of booze to a group of high rollers sitting at a living room couch height table.
Hefner was a genius with his bend from knees and serve from the side service motion.
Takes awhile to get down but if done right nothing valuable shows lol.

mimi

I have worked many different venues but was never a bunny ..... just to set things straight lol.

m.


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## bloodymary (May 9, 2017)

I never said I was an adult.

I have a disclaimer in my profile 'I do not have a gentle heart'

I took pictures today at the disgusting, revolting kitchen left behind by the owners. but I'm too tired to post them. My kitchen closes at 9:00. I didn't get out of there until 11:30 last night.

My typical day coming in to work: Dirty dishes piled up. Inventory to be organized and put away in its place. Empty boxes left laying everywhere and need to be broken down. The flat top and the floor was a greasy mess. I wont cook for people on a filthy grill. It took several passes with oil and brick to clean it like new again.

No prep done the night before. I had no tomato, no slaw. The expensive leaf lettuce was turning yellow and needed be tossed out and replaced. They were supposed to pull chicken, but left them in the warmer overnight. I had to throw away 8 rotisserie chickens. I was running around all night trying to clean, cook and organize the kitchen instead of working a normal shift.

The buns for the sandwiches were still frozen. I had to rinse and portion shrimp and calamari that was left in containers the night before. It was wing night and luckily I had prepped for this over the weekend, but not everyone orders wings on wing night. I had a lot of pulled pork (to pull and prepare) and hamburgers to fire. Someone left taco sauce from Taco Tuesday in squeeze bottles unmarked, which could be mistaken for BBQ sauce.

The servers don't mark the tickets with separate orders for the same table. Not all tickets are going to be fired on the line depending on what it is when one person is working the kitchen. I had one of the servers help me keep up with the dishwashing duties. The server helped wash dishes, but put all our knives through the dishwasher.  The lazy servers didn't bother to wrap the silverware. They left it in the pass.

I'm not paid enough for what I have to do everyday. You have no idea the things i have to do to make this kitchen clean and organized properly and it makes my job ten times harder than it has to be.


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## bloodymary (May 9, 2017)

BEFORE:





  








dirty.jpg




__
bloodymary


__
Jun 16, 2017








AFTER:





  








clean.jpg




__
bloodymary


__
Jun 16, 2017


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

I agree you are in a nitemare situation.
I also agree no amt of money nor perks would be enuf to clean up after owners who are hell bent to self destruct .
You sound smart and hard working and are way above the situation you currently find yourself in.
Why not polish up your CV and carpet bomb every place you can think of.
Your dream jobs.
Travel if needs be.
Even if you have to drag a family along lol.
Blow that popcicle stand!

mimi

OMG....I would have to slit my wrists if that is what I walked into every day.

m.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

i agree, get out asap


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Hi bloody mary,

I dunno.... the pictures show a dishpit, yes there is stuff thst needs to be cleaned. Sink, wall, and floor appear to be fairly clean. I Don't see any issues here.

In your posts you describe regular duties like putting inventory away, portioning product, etc. In other words, duties thst are typical and expected for your position--this is what you are being paid to do. I don't see any issues here either.

What are your expectations of the owners?


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

All the kitchens I've worked in have a swinging door. The door swings both ways, if it swings in don't Bitch you get paid by the hour. If it swings out, good luck I hope things are better down the road....


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

I see one cart full of dirtied cooking equipment, and don't even see any food particles on anything--they look rinsed.

Nor do I  see any dishes, plates, flatware, glasses, etc.

In the place I worked for  years, cleaning the cook line and baking stuff was my responsibility. In fact i insisted upon it, unless I didn't have time and needed some stuff back in service like.... NOW.

My general policy was, I dirtied it, so I washed it. And with that attitude in hand, I got plenty of help offers. I'd call that pic situation normal--probably cuz Ive seen way, way worse--certainly not disgusting. And I doubt any health official would either-- its all just waiting to be run thru sanitation.


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## chefjess606 (Oct 29, 2016)

I would just like to put in a word for the owners here. I do not know every detail of your situation, so I can tell you what you want to hear or what you need to hear. Man, you have got to slow down. Have you sat down with the owners? Is there a chef? Who is responsible for that kitchen? We are here for you to vent to, but nothing will change without action. I see this from your point of view, and I get frustrated too. However, take a minute to look at it from the owners view. Most businesses owners I know work 80-100 hours per WEEK. There is a whole lot that goes on behind closed doors. Running a business takes more than just turning the open sign on and off. If I were an owner who had just worked 16+ hours, you bet your butt I would expect my paid employee to do the dishes, that is why I pay them. My point is, stop being a victim. Address the problem in a professional manner and if you don't come to a solution then leave. Don't continue to be unhappy for no reason.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

This one pix is NBD I agree.
But to walk in and have to bring the kitchen to a normal starting point and toss out product that was needed for that day's menu EVERY DAY I would be past weary.
Then have to send someone out to source whatever has to be replaced because the owners party friends either ate it or ate some of it and left the rest out to rot.

We all know those owners.....so when we finish the list we will have to pay out of our own pocket and pray they "remember to pay us back" because those sort of owners are too suspicious to leave any sort of petty cash laying around.
Right?

mimi


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## bloodymary (May 9, 2017)

I cleaned my way around that mess I walked into in the dish pit.

Before I took that photo, I already pulled the mats, swept, mopped and took out the garbage.

I talked to the owner and she will start having a dishwasher everyday now to help out, but he is not going to be there before my shift starts.

Here is another set of pics of things I have to do before my shift even starts so that my shift goes easy.

In this photo I already made one pass with oil and brick. I clean this flat top grill twice a day. Once before and once after my shift because no one but me and the lead cook will do it.

BEFORE:





  








before.jpg




__
bloodymary


__
Jun 18, 2017








AFTER:





  








after.jpg




__
bloodymary


__
Jun 18, 2017


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## redbeerd cantu (Aug 7, 2013)

I believe that every employee in a labor-intensive industry believes that they should be paid more. Can't blame them. Citizens in the labor sector tend to be under- or uneducated. Rare is the instance when one comes upon another who has been Ivy League educated but is cleaning hotel rooms, mixing cement in summertime Texas, or trimming the fat off of 50lbs of oxtails, while tending to tickets and keeping the menu items available.

When one sits to eat in a restaurant, one has certain expectations, the primary being that the food will be satisfactory, at the LEAST.

The service offered in a restaurant is, without a doubt, of high importance, but if we were to question the minutae of carnal desire, when was the last time you went out to spend your hard-earned disposable income for _service_? Have you ever spent time trying to decide where to go get _served_? When was the last time you said to your significant other, "Where do you want to go get _served_?" Probably never. You more than likely asked where to go to _eat_, where the service was great.

What is a restaurant? At it's basest measure, it's a place to go eat. Agreed? If a restaurant is a destination (at it's basest definition) whose primary objective is to provide anything other than food, please feel free to let us know.

What do people do at restaurants? They EAT. What do they eat? FOOD. Where does the food come from? The kitchen. Who's in the kitchen? COOKS.

When a major legal case is won or lost, is it the paralegal who gets the glory or the derision? When a song wins a Grammy, is it the mixing engineer who is lauded among the common fans?

In my opinion, those who produce the physical product or service deserve more than those who hand it over. This is not to say that servers are undeserving...some human beings are absolutely pieces of sh&t, and to have to deal with some humans, face-to-face, day after day, is a noble accomplishment in and of itself, but in the end, they bring to the customer that which the customer entered to the building for in the first place...


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

Some owners get tired of employees complaining about too much work for too little pay when they withdraw another weeks wages from their retirement fund.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

Jimyra said:


> Some owners get tired of employees complaining about too much work for too little pay when they withdraw another weeks wages from their retirement fund.


No one ever said owning a restaurant was easy...there is a reason why a huge percentage of restaurants fail within a few years of opening. Just because the business is tough and the margins are small, does not obviate the need to pay your employees a livable wage. Period. A decision was made by whomever opened the business to do so, and that, in my opinion, comes with responsibilities to your employees.

The same enmity that you are projecting towards employees could easily be pointed right back at the owners. Hell, at least the owner HAS a retirement fund. I haven't been able to AFFORD one yet.....


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

Okay, i do agree the state of that grill is unacceptable. If I clocked in and found that, id be pretty ticked off myself. The grill's to be cleaned and blocked after every shift so far as im concerned, and several times during as load permits. And since its tough sweaty work, all cooks should share it equally.


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

Meezenplaz said:


> Okay, i do agree the state of that grill is unacceptable. If I clocked in and found that, id be pretty ticked off myself. The grill's to be cleaned and blocked after every shift so far as im concerned, and several times during as load permits. And since its tough sweaty work, all cooks should share it equally.


Meez...I'm with you. In fact, if it were me, I would wait until the evening shift guys come in and threaten their existence. This is laziness pure and simple.

BloodyMary has a point here. If this is one example, I'm sure there are others.

That being said, what I don't understand is why the OP is venting to us instead of the parties involved.

No amount of money is going to take care of laziness and poor performance.


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

Someday said:


> No one ever said owning a restaurant was easy...there is a reason why a huge percentage of restaurants fail within a few years of opening. Just because the business is tough and the margins are small, does not obviate the need to pay your employees a livable wage. Period. A decision was made by whomever opened the business to do so, and that, in my opinion, comes with responsibilities to your employees.
> 
> The same enmity that you are projecting towards employees could easily be pointed right back at the owners. Hell, at least the owner HAS a retirement fund. I haven't been able to AFFORD one yet.....


What is a livable wage? Does it include cell phone, cable TV, smart phone, and many other things? The OP has a house on the lake what is the cost of an apartment in town? What minimum wage precludes the ability to open a business and provide employment at all? I agree wages are two low but I feel the "owners" are not being represented here. A lot of owners work longer hours for less money than the employees.


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