# Molcajete question - have I been scammed?



## foxrivercouple

HELP!  I just went to Nogales, Mexico (super touristy) and I bought what I thought was a basalt molcajete. They had two versions down there. One was extremely porous and the other slightly less porous. I bought the less porous one and it has a carved, painted pig's head on the front. As I read more about the molcajete, I have come to realize that there is a "tourist" version out there that is a blend of concrete and basalt. How do I know what version I have?

Also, if I do have the concrete/basalt one, is it still OK to use? I've heard that it can get gritty... The picture below is from CMC company. It is the closest picture to what I have.
Thanks!!!


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## foodnfoto

Oh FoxRiver- 
I hate to break it to you, but you've got one of those made from concrete and basalt. Basalt it much darker, almost black with a very porous structure, but the stone is much harder.
You can identify the mixed and molded material molcajetes by the hard angle on the top edge. It's a giveaway that it has been molded, not carved.
I wouldn't recommend using it. The chemicals used to make the concrete adhere to itself are unlikely to be food safe and could leach toxins like lead into your food.
I'm sorry.


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## foxrivercouple

foodnfoto, thanks!  I had a feeling someone was going to break the bad news to me... oh well, better to ask. Can anyone recommend a place that has the true "basalt" molcajetes? I saw one advertised on gourmet sluth...are those the real ones? 

I never thought this would be so complicated....


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## amazingrace

Well, you have a lovely souvenier of the trip. If I were you, I'd plant a cactus in it and put it on the windowsill, to ensure it won't get used for mashing guacamole. You can get the real thing online. Ebay has a number of authentic ones listed. Just type in molcajete.

Update:  The eBay offerings seem to have dwindled since my origian post.  However other sources for real molcajetes include Amazon.com, ShopTejas and Mexican Grocer.  Some offer free shipping, which considering the weight of these things,  is a real good deal.


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## mannlicher

Gourmet Sleuth, indeed 

http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/pigmolcajetecomparison.htm


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## foxrivercouple

Thanks for the info all!:talk:

I am located near chicago and I wonder if anyone knows if I could pick up an authentic molcajete at the Maxwell street market?? I've never been but I've heard that it is a great place to go? Does anyone know?


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## mikescookin

You can order one here:
http://www.mexgrocer.com/9117.html

Or, call Rick Bayless's restuarant in Chicago. They use them and should be able to tell you if they are available locally. Let us know where you find one.

Good luck.
Mike


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## maurera

I know this is a very old post, but I have the exact same question. I bought it from a store that didn't seem very touristy, but upon reading about all the concrete ones on the internet I figured I should check.

Here's a couple pictures of mine.


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## amazingrace

It's really difficult to tell from the photo.  However, the exterior and interior appear to be lava-like,  while the top edge looks to have a much finer texture.  This makes me suspicious of the product's authenticity.  In recent years, imitations have been arriving in the US from questionable sources.  Some of them are cast from concrete,  then the exterior and interior are painted to look like the real thing.   

Basalt molcajetes may be either finely textured, or very coarse, but they will never appear to be fine-grained in one place and coarse in another.  True molcajetes may be made from basalt, which can be dark brownish, dark grey or even black, or they may be made from lava-rack, which is light to medium grey and softer than basalt.   Basalt is much harder than lava, and once seasoned the basalt molcajetes do not continue shedding grit into the food being ground. 

Maurera, I would not use this for food preparation before establishing the composition of the material.


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## boar_d_laze

The legs, the top, and several other parts appear too fine grained to be basalt. My overall impression based on your pictures and the overall aesthetic of the piece is that it's cast and not carved.

No criticism intended, but the cute little piggie motif might be seen in some quarters as perhaps -- how can I put this? -- _una poquita gabacha._

BDL


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## sockpuppetdoug

Well, *_I*_ think your piggy is cute. And if it comes from a mould, they would have had to break it to get the form out, use a mould that assembled in pieces or use a latex/flexible mould. Not impossible but a little more difficult. Also, there's lots of different types of basalt and they all have different textures, colors and densities so sometimes it's hard to tell what you're looking at.

That being said it really does look like a lightweight concrete mix with some admixture.... Why?

A. Hard to tell from the photo but it looks like a pigment that's been added to give color

B. It's very uniform. Generally speaking stones aren't uniform. Some are but they tend to be fine. This one isn't fine.

C. There's no sign of tooling. There doesn't have to be if it was polished but this doesn't appear to be polished either.

Please don't take anything I see as definitive. Just my initial impression.

ps: what do the underside of the feet look like? are they the same texture as the top? If no then it's definitely not legit. If yes then you might want to do further investigation. Good luck!


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## maurera

Thanks for the great feedback. That was my first post here and I'm impressed with how active the community is here. I took a bunch more photos (sorry for posting so many). A bit more info:

Store: I bought it from a store selling pottery in Mazatlan while on a road trip from Vancouver. It seemed less touristy because prices were a lot lower and while I was there I saw one man buy 30 plain drinking glasses and a woman who bought a bunch of napkin holders, both customers Mexican. I called back today and inquired about the Molcajete in pretty awful Spanish. I asked her "es de basolto o es de concreto". She said something that sounded like "pierne", but I've either spelled it wrong or heard wrong. I asked "es buen para cocinar?" and she said yes, and that I should "moler maiz" to season it (I've been using rice). She also told me not to polish it "no polido". If anyone here speaks spanish, the number of the store is 1-52-(669)-990-3550.

Physical: It's fairly smooth around the upper part on the exterior and the legs, but quite rough in the bowl section and on the bulbous part of the underside (this is best seen on the picture with the molcajete upside-down. There's almost a line where it goes from coarse to smooth (perhaps the upper section is easy to sand down, but the lower part can't be sanded as easily because the legs are in the way.) There are impression around the legs that are white where it looks like a tool might have been used. Next thing is that where I've seasoned it, it's become slightly darker. note is that someone wrote "8" in permanent marker on the back. Perhaps the carver used that to identify how many he was making.

PS - I just looked at it again in sunlight and it looks very much like stone up close. There are small crystalline deposits that look similar to rocks that have small pieces of quartz embedded. There are quite a few with a greenish hue scattered throughout.

It weighs 12 pounds

Thanks again for all the help.


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## sockpuppetdoug

The second set of photos look much better to me, particularly the 4th and 5th photos down from the top where you can really see the variation of the pore structure.

Usually when you pour a concrete mix the top of the mold is going to want to "float" to make a smooth surface unless it's very high in aggregate. But yours doesn't look like that. Plus the color and texture is showing variation that would be hard to fake, IMO.

We can only guess, but the second set of photos look like the real thing.


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## amazingrace

In the more recent pics this closely resembles the photos I've seen of the molcajetes Rick Bayless uses. Also,  the tejolote (pestle) appears hand crafted of stone, and also the feet seem to be irregular as if hand crafted. In addition, I see no mould lines anywhere around the bottom, and no marks where such marks may have been "cleaned up". The weight is also significant (although that could be faked with lead...eek). Standing by itself, without the tejolote, my molcajete weighs just over 5#. It may be smaller than yours, and is of the much coarser stone, which I'm told is harder, although lighter in weight.

Did this come with instructions for prepping the bowl before using? If so, have you been able to bring it to the point where it no longer sheds grit? Agregates are too soft to ever stop shedding, so getting it to stop shedding is an important step in establishing its authenticity. Instructions online vary, but definately never use soap, detergent or bleach in your molcajete. I scrub mine after use with plain water and a medium brush, then grind some sea salt into it while it's still damp. Salt is naturally anti-microbial. If you feel a strong need for further sanitizing at any time, you can place it into a 300 degree oven for 30 minutes.

You may grind either dried corn or rice. Use real raw rice, not minute rice or Uncle Ben's. The key is to keep repeating until no more grit appears in the fine meal you are producing. Yes, the bowl area will change color (develop patina) as you use the molcajete.

Please keep us posted. I would love for this to be a true piece that you can actually use in your kitchen, and not just put on display. Nothing compares to the taste of salsas, chutneys and guacamoles that have been prepared using the molcajete...and it make a wonderful serving vessel too. _Fiesta... OLE!_


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## amazingrace

Here is some useful information:

www.gourmetsleuth.com/Articles/molcajete-comparison.aspx


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## maurera

Thanks for all the help.

@SockpuppetDoug: how do you know so much about concrete moulding?

@amazingrace: I think it's stopped shedding now after quite a few handfuls of rice. Man! It's difficult turning a handful of rice into powder. I tried making a rice tortilla with the powder by adding a bit of butter and some water, and it fried up alright but was too gritty (I think rice grit, not concrete grit)

I've tried a couple salsas now with great success - putting the garden tomatos to excellent use! Now to figure out how to make corn tortillas without a tortilla press or a cast iron pan.


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## boar_d_laze

*In re el molcajete*

Glad to be wrong.

_*In re las tortillas*_

You could form tortillas by patting the masa between your palms. I can't. But with little more than several decades of daily practice _you could_. A very thick, ropelike braid of grey (or black with a lot of grey) hair seems to help.

A lot of people roll them out with a pin. It helps to roll them between sheets of wax paper or slightly moistened cling wrap. Turn them frequently as you roll to keep the edges smooth -- you don't want ragged edges.

It doesn't have to be a dedicated, cast iron _comal_, but you need a decent griddle. A cast-iron, reversible Lodge, stove-top is great. Aluminum, if it's heavy enough also works well. Some electric non-stick griddles are plenty good, too.

BDL


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## malorty

I was hoping you all could help me as well to make sure my molcajete is authentic and not concrete. Here are some pics. I've already gone through about 5 rice grindings and 4 rock salt grindings. The inside is now definitely smoother than the outside but there are still quite a few deep holes (1/8") in the stone. Some of the visible white specks look like quartz or something but others are peices of rice that have lodged into the holes. Is this ok or should I keep grinding? Thanks for any advice.


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## malorty

I guess this thread is old and dead :-(


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## petemccracken

Give it a day or two, after all, it is the end of Holy week...


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## chicagoterry

I'm in Chicago and if you're still looking,  I've seen these at many of the "Supermercados" in the city. I would check the markets in the far north blocks of Clark Street in Rogers Park or any of the markets in the Pilsen or Little Village neighborhoods on the near South Side.


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## chicagoterry

Oops! Just realized the OP is ancient.


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## malorty

No, mine's not ancient! Please respond


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## amazingrace

Malorty, you will be happy to know that your stone-age-blender appears to be authentic.  The ones I've seen that contain concrete typically appear to be much finer grained,  and of a much softer texture--almost "powdery", with a more "commercial" appearance.  They also lack the rustic quality that is very evident in your piece.  In seasoning the molcajete you want to be sure that the shedding has stopped, but you don't want it to be perfectly smooth.  The roughness aids in crushing and blending the food.  The process is tedious,  to say the least, if you follow the traditional route using dry rice.  I got tired of that very fast and switched to coarse sandpaper.  Not traditional, true,  but it did speed up the process considerably.  I also seasoned the tejelote the same way.  I did very little to the outside of the bowl since that does not contact food and I like the roughness.  I did make the feet as smooth as possible with progressive grades of sand paper so they would be less likely to scratch the surface of my countertop.  Although I use a placemat underneath,  I cannot be sure that others will be as careful. 

The molcajete is porous,  and will absorb the taste of whatever is put into it.  For this reason cleaning with soap, detergent or bleach is not advised.  I scrub the inside of mine with a very stiff dry brush to remove food particles,  then  rub with a paste of salt and water,  let stand for a few minutes, then rinse.  I turn it upside down on a rack to dry completely.  If the oven is warm I will put it in there to finish drying.  Salt is naturally anti-microbial,  so you need not worry about the bowl and crusher being clean.  If you are planning to use this in your restaurant,  you will want to be sure to educate all your staff about the proper way to clean this tool.  Unless you have a very dedicated crew,  it might be better to just not even try.  They may think the whole process is too "fussy" or that a simple salt treatment is not sufficient, so that either way it gets a trip through the dishwasher instead.


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## malorty

Thank you so much for the response, it was very helpful and I'm relieved now that I know I can use mine safely. Thanks again!


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## maryg

I just bought this molcajete at a Mexican grocery store ($23), which the staff said was made in Mexico. I did extensive research online before purchasing and am still concerned that I ended up with one that is not food-grade safe. From what I understand, true basalt is a very hard rock, so I'm surprised the tejolote has fine ridges and a long smudge.

Is the circle on the bottom of the molcajete a mold mark? I've ground rice in it three times now to "season" - didn't really get the grittiness that others have mentioned and it grinds down to a powder pretty easily. Any thoughts?

Thank you in advance!





  








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## geno

you need to understand Mexico. They are not making molcajetes by hand, for the most part. Mexico uses high speed grinders, lathes and other modern machinery to make these products. Sharp and crisp edges are simple to do with stone using the correct tools, even a 4 1/2 inch side grinder with the correct grinding stone will give you a smooth finish.


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## maryg

Thanks, Geno! The closest info I could find online for the molcajete I bought is this: 
Can you tell from that if it's a concrete mix?


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## petemccracken

From the web site cited: "Molcaje de Peidra( Natural Stone in Box) Heavy weights 9.2 LB", so, I would say it is natural stone, wouldn't you?


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## maryg

I'm just wondering if it's 100% natural stone and can't tell.  The one review from someone who bought it off Amazon suggests that it's a concrete/stone mix, which worries me due to high lead content.


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## petemccracken

Well, if you do not believe the advertising text...


maryg said:


> I'm just wondering if it's 100% natural stone and can't tell. The one review from someone who bought it off Amazon suggests that it's a concrete/stone mix, which worries me due to high lead content.


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## s11908d

It sounds like a mixed Molcajete to me. If you cure it correctly and it is made of basalt, the grit will go away. If the grit continues after many attempts to cure, you certainly have one made with concrete. The grit will never go away. Please don't use. Sorryyou got one designed for the tourist.


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## pal88

Just yesterday I bought Imusa Molcajete. I dont have much knowledge about molcajetes but the box says lava rock molcajete & pestle. does imusa sell basalt molcajete? I am not sure  My molcajete is light brown and grey in color and the pestle is black and grey in color. I appreciate your reply hope its not too late to ask..


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## pal88




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## janes5of7

the molcajete with the pigs head is Good....

Take it to a car wash with a pressure washer- spend 10 min getting the grit out and you are good to go.

Season with  cilantro and garlic, then enjoy!  you will be so thankful for your purchase!!!

Some cheeper tourist molcajetes are not made of concrete, but granite... it would take forever to season this because of all the loose minerals in the molcajete.  It is easier for them to make, a much softer rock so they can make many in a much shorter amount of time.  But if you want a real molcajete....  Ask a restaurant owner.... They know where the real lava rock ones are sold...  expect to pay more than $20.00 American.  These are handed down in families...  you get what you pay for...


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## nickgoods

Hey I know this post is old AF

but I'm hoping someone can help me out.

Bought this molcajete from Rosa Mexican restaurants in nyc 4 yrs ago. Supposed to be lava rock

I've starting using it more recently and want to make sure I'm not eating whatever toxic crap is in concrete

Things I'm questioning

Top edge is really "precise"

Bottom tool marks look a little "too pronounced"

I've attached some pics.

Appreciate any insight


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## nickgoods

Bump


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## phatch

I don't think it's possible to tell from just a photo.


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## nickgoods

Any suggestions how I can tell?

I mean it shouldn’t require lab analysis


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## phatch

Just what I've seen here. Grind rice in it a number times if the grittiness persists equally throughout 8 or so grindings, it's concrete. Basalt should become much less gritty as it breaks in.


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## astrose00

nickgoods said:


> Hey I know this post is old AF
> 
> but I'm hoping someone can help me out.
> 
> Bought this molcajete from Rosa Mexican restaurants in nyc 4 yrs ago. Supposed to be lava rock
> 
> I've starting using it more recently and want to make sure I'm not eating whatever toxic crap is in concrete
> 
> Things I'm questioning
> 
> Top edge is really "precise"
> 
> Bottom tool marks look a little "too pronounced"
> 
> I've attached some pics.
> 
> Appreciate any insight


Hi, I live in México City and recently bought a few (ok, 4!) molcajetes. One of the molcajetes I bought looks just like this. I cured it using two different methods and there is no more grit and white rice (wet or dry) stays white. First method was a crimped wire brush on my drill to get a lot of the grit off and then the 2nd was with rice grinding 3 times to make sure I saw no grit. I would say your molcajete is real. I have 4 of them and two look like this one and the other two are the almost black porous ones. They all work great. When wet, they are all black but I can tell they are not all the same. The two porous ones take a long time to dry and the less porous ones (like your piggy) dry faster. Mine are all super heavy and came from very reputable sources. One of the less porous ones came already cured from a fellow at the Saturday Bazaar in San Angel, CDMX. It was pricey (lots of tourists) but I could tell the quality without even touching it. He obviously had used tools to smooth everything. I did a test with rice anyway and it came out clean. The other three had to be seasoned and I took to all of them with the drill first, then rice. I am a bit OCD so I did two of them in one day and my arm almost fell off!

Anyway, enough rambling. I think you are fine with your little piggy there. Like I said, mine looks just like this, down to the bumpy inner bowl. I have been reading some comments that say the molcajetes have to be dark and I am not sure that is true. I have watched dozens of videos of the craftmen in México and their stones are all light gray. They are almost black when wet and once fully seasoned, yes. But they are all dusty and gray. I even watched someone make one with the pig head and it was nearly identical to yours along with the marks at the base of the legs. I would bet money your molcajete is the real thing. Please come back and let us know if you had success. I know there are fakes out there but these things are so cheap. I think the more likely concern is whether the basalt used is high quality. The lower quality is not as strong and will continue to break. So far so good with all of mine.


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