# Am I this out of touch



## hotchpotch (Oct 16, 2009)

On another food (non-professional) forum a question was raised by a long-time patron (10 years).

He was there on a regular evening with a group eating and drinking, one of his friends ordered a micro brew tap beer and didn't like it. He had only consumed a couple of ounces and returned it for something else. At the end of the night they were charged for both the returned beer and the replacement.

The OP said he was startled and asked if this was normal.

To my surprise 17 people (all non professionals) stated that the OP was wrong and should pay for the beer.

3 people (2 owner/operators and 1 non professional) stated that the beer was not drunk and should have been comped. 

A lot of words were exchanged but virtually of the non-professionals customers felt that if you order a drink or food in a restaurant and you don't like it (nothing wrong with it, just don't like the taste) it's your tough luck.

I was one of the owner/operators that said the cost of the beer is pennies compared the amount of ill will it created. This was a no-brainier in my mind, he didn't drink it, he didn't like it, take it back and get him something he likes.

Am I that out of touch with the professional side of the world for thinking the un-drunk beer should have been comped?

What would you think if this happened to you in a restaurant?


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

If he took two sips of it and sent it back because he didn't like it for sure it should be comped. If he had drank most of it, left two sips and complained, well that's another story and in that case he should pay.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

I forgot to add that if I had ordered a beer, tasted it, hated it and asked for something new, I would expect to be comped for the sendback. In the event that i was charged for it... well I would be finiding another establishment to give my business to.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

That's why I ALWAYS ask for a taste of new to me beverages.....
whole beer, I'd comp as an owner but pay for as a customer.


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## chefray (Sep 29, 2009)

As an owner/manager, I'd comp it. As a patron, I'd pay it and be okay with it. I would like to see it comped because, if _*I*_ won't drink it, it's dish water but would still pay for it because I would have, after all, ordered said dish water.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

What's the difference between a paint store and a restaurant?

You go into a paint store, choose a custom colour, a specific type of paint, and have it made up for you. Very few, if any, customers will try to return custom paint, especially if some of it has been used. Flat out refusal, and it says o right by the cash register, "No refunds or exchanages on custom paint".

Restaurant owners are saps, eejits. Order something, try it, and if someone looks at you cross eyed or your shoes are pinching you complain and demand yuor money back. If they don't, well then they're eejits and they won't get your business again. (p.s. I own my own place)

Look, the scene plays itself over and over again: A customer orders something, eats half of the protein, and sends it back. No refund here. If they took one nibble, yeah, sure, but half of the protein gone, no dice. The key words in your opening post was, I believe: " Took a couple of ounces". Not one sip and spit out immediately, a couple of ounces, from what, an 8 or 10 oz glass? No dice. 

Theother key words were, I believe " Beer csots pennies, but the ill-will....." Beer may cost pennies but MY overhead doesn't, neither does my labour cost. Even to throw out a partially consumed beverage will cost you money


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## blueicus (Mar 16, 2005)

As an owner I'd probably have no qualms about replacing the drink or dish in question free of charge, but as a customer I honestly think that it's unreasonable to expect comps for mistakes I myself made. I guess I was raised to take responsibility for my own actions so I don't feel comps are necessary when I made a bad choice, just suck it up and drink/eat it.


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## nichole (Sep 16, 2009)

Well that's a tough job. If I were a costumer of course I would pay for it if I take a zip on it. Because I am responsible for ordering it. And as for an owner I would tell them the detail so that they will be able to think which is which and change it if they don't like it.


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## hotchpotch (Oct 16, 2009)

I am not trying to argue - rather trying to understand your point. To be honest this Internet debate on the other forum has flabbergasted me and my friends/colleagues. We are all older (60's & 70's) have worked in this business for 30-40+ years and there wasn't one of us that would not have immediately comped the beer.

Could this be a generational thing?

Maybe regional (all of my colleagues are west coast and HI)?

Anyhow here are my comments and a question.

You can go into any Lowe's or Home Depot and find the custom paint return bin that is loaded with paint marked down that customers have returned.

These stores realize that the ill-will it creates is just too great, so while they do have the sign no returns, they always take the paint back, they find that in the long term it creates good-will and saves them money.

I just want to make sure I understand your logic:

Are you saying it is better to take a gamble losing a long-time customer that obviously brings in business to your establishment for a 1 time gain on a un-drunk glass of beer?

Or do you think that the chance of losing this customer over this issue is infinitesimally small?


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## hotchpotch (Oct 16, 2009)

Responsibility for you own actions is great, but how do you know if you like something until you try?

Would you order a $25 dish featuring a unusual fish prepared in a way that you have never heard, using a combination of strange flavors, knowing that you had to just suck it up if you didn't care for it?

Or would you play it safe and get something that you are familiar with so you won't waste your money?

The reason I ask is that for most of my career I tried to get diners to adventure out of their comfort zone, maybe it's just a weird philosophy I have. But I would be much happier knowing you tried something new and found out you didn't like it rather than order the same old dishes every time.

I am trying to judge MYSELF here, do I hold a philosophy that is in the minority.

Any insights would be appreciated.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Would you order a $25 dish featuring a unusual fish prepared in a way that you have never heard, using a combination of strange flavors, knowing that you had to just suck it up if you didn't care for it?




That's why chain restaurants thrive......it's all the same slock no matter where you travel. Olive Garden's salad in MO is the same in CA or MI or WI....
It's a mind set that has driven the economy for a while and the pendulum is starting to swing the other way toward local food.

Looks like the mass majority of owners agree with you. Comp it. 

And the owners also would pay for their choices. That by the way is very different than something poorly prepared.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Check with the store manager, the returned custom paint is usually the mistake of the paint dept--wrong colour or type. Paint costs $30-$40 a gallon, and there are literally thousands of custom colours

You also never said that the customer was a "reg". This is an important point and explains why the customer expected a comp and why he was so dissapointed when he didn't get one.

O.k now, quality control:
1) Was the product of inferior quality?
2) Was the product the right size? Underpoured, larger/smaller than ordered?3) Was the product exactly as ordered? Right type?

All of the answers are no. If any were yes it would suggest the resto was at fault and the intelligent thing to do is to replace or refund. 

The customer decided he didn't like the product he ordered and wants a refund/Replacement. Returned product can not be resold, and what ever happens to it will cost the resto money 

Why?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Why is the sky blue?

You don't pull a stunt like this in a paint store, and try returning an opened can of product at a supermarket--no quality issues here, just that "You didn't like it". 

Why does a customer feel he has special rights in a restaurant and insist he be compensated for making a decision he regrets?

Back to reality..... 
Why didn't the server inform the customer that he would be charged? Situations like that must crop every now and then. Deal with it now rather than tack it on the bill at the end of the night which certainly will create "ill will". 

Why doesn't the place sell a "sample set", trial sizes of unknown beers that cost less than a buck each. If the place does sell a sample set, why didn't the customer order it?

Just yesterday I had a walk-in who demanded "Your strongest coffee" This was served to him and he then proceeded to empty out half of the contents and fill up with coffee cream. He then complained that the coffee was weak. I asked him to pay up, and he did so -very grudgingly. He then remarked that he would never come back ever again.

My reply? 

"Can you guarantee me that?


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## livinitup0 (Feb 2, 2009)

this really is a no-brainer... comp the drink, and as a customer I'd expect it to be. If I order food and it tastes bad Id expect to have a new entree too. Its called the service industry for a reason. Just make the guest happy. 

Obviously if theres only the dregs left in the glass then thats a different story. However if theres 75% of the drink left then just comp it. If its less Id probably just ask "Hey man i saw you drank a good chunk of that....is there something wrong wrong with it?" ..and if they persist im probably still going to comp it! I mean seriously theres not like an army of patrons ready to scam free drinks... it happens rarely, at least in my area. 

It might take labor cost to dump the drink but what aboput the labor cost it takes ot argue with the customer as well as the ill will of that customer, as well as the scene you'll make that might make new customers not come back?

In the end its not worth it....comp the drink and enjoy your good deed. You never know...you may have just have created a regular.


Even if it wasnt me effected id never go back to a place that would say that to a customer. 

Crappy customers happen....but just because you are right doesnt mean that your level of service and respect should ever change...not one bit. Thats professionalism.


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## bazza (Apr 2, 2007)

There is a big difference between an establishment that is owner managed and one that is just managed by staff. I have worked in places where the General Manager will have to account for every ounce of flour and every pint of beer, if his/her stocktake is out he/she will then have to justify it at a manager's meeting.

If it was my restaurant of course I would comp the beer but a manager would perhaps be more interested in his stocktake than goodwill. I think it depends on where you decide to try out a new beer and send it back because you don't care for it. Seems a bit petty to me.


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## cheftoddmohr (Apr 17, 2009)

Said to me long ago, "you don't sell food, you sell the experience."

Not comp'ing a beer is telling the customer to go somewhere else.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Let me put it another way....

WHY do you comp?
Because if you do he'll be happy and bring more guests and if you don't he'll bad mouth you or worse.

Am I right?

Wrong.

Those are consequences. The carrot and the stick. It doesn't explain WHY the guy wants to be comped.

WHY does he want to be comped? Because today is Thursday? 

Any intelligent and caring owner will comp if the product or service isn't up to snuf. 

But this isn't the case.

Guest made a choice then changed his mind. He made a bad decision.

If he wants to be comped and you agree, magic happens....

By doing so, you have acknowledged that somehow you are at fault.

And this is not the case.

All this fuss over a $5. beer? Beer is cheap

Absolutely correct

Pay the 5 bucks, it's not a 25 year mortgage, just a bad decision. Take your mistake in stride and offer it/trade to one of the other guys at the table.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

Were I the customer, I would expect to pay for it.
As such, were I the manager, I wouldn't automatically comp it, but wouldn't hesitate to do so if the issue was brought up.
I don't see why it should be an automatic, it's the guests mistake.
Like ordering Ahi for the first time and deciding you don't like rare tuna, not the establishments fault.
If so, where would it end?
But, if the customer was determined to have an issue with my policy I would have no problem comping it.
Not just to placate that customer, but also to avoid an unpleasant experience for all other diners.


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Sure you got paid for the beer, But you lost a customer or two for the future, plus bad press.


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## hotchpotch (Oct 16, 2009)

Exactly, I don't really see how anyone can miss this point. 

Very small short term gain vs much larger long term loss.


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

It depends on a couple factors. If there was actually something wrong with the beer you should comp it, no questions asked. If he merely didn't like it, well that's a judgment call. As a guest I would have just drank it unless it was attrocious. For instance, I'm not fond of IPAs- just don't care for that style. If I ordered your house IPA and didn't like it I wouldn't have much room to complain. As a manager I'd probably comp it anyways, depending on the circumstances.

However, you have to bear in mind that the customer isn't always right. You can bend over backwards for some people and still get badmouthed. You probably know the guy I'm talking about; the blowhard that bitches no matter what he gets, threatens to never come back, to tell everyone what a lousy joint you run, yada yada yada. It's just sound business practice to fire customers like that- they're slow poison. Their $5 isn't worth the aggrevation they cause you.


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## hotchpotch (Oct 16, 2009)

In a nutshell you are correct.


He had decided to try a new beer, he was not offered a sample, so he ordered one and tasted it and didn't like it took it back and asked if he could exchange it for something else. The bartender exchanged it and never said that he was charging him for both beers. The beer he brought back was thrown away and then his group was charged for it on their final bill.


The guest did exactly what we all want as owners, to be adventurous and to try something new that we offer, whether it be food or drink; he did and he didn't like it.

What was his bad decision, the choice to try something new???????

Are you implying that you don't want anybody to try something new or if they do and don't like it, then you blame the guest that they made "a bad decision"?

This is a huge leap of logic that I simply cannot make. If a guest tries something new and doesn't like it why would I be at fault?

Have you ever tasted something that you did not like? Who's fault is it that you don't like something? The restaurant that served it to you? - I think not. Your fault then, of course not, it's your personal taste there is no reasoning to blame someone or try to find fault for not liking something. 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree - it seems that we have fundamentally opposed philosophies of service.

Cheers


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## bazza (Apr 2, 2007)

The customer is not always right and neither is the restaurant, in this case it all comes down to communication. If they had said to your friend "sure you can have another beer but I will have to charge you for it" he would then have had a choice. If he replied "I would like another beer but I don't want to pay for it" then the restaurant would have had a choice. If both parties are assuming that the other is going to pay then there will always be an issue. 

Sometimes I am offered bread or olives in a restaurant, sometimes it is on the bill at the end and sometimes it isn't, if I want to know beforehand, I will ask. I hear what you are saying about goodwill and it is possilble that this was a misunderstanding. Every situation is different and restaurants have to assess each case as it happens. None of us were there so it is difficult to judge what actually happened. At the end of the day restaurants can't go giving away stuff to every customer who wants a freebie.

After all is said and done it is only a beer, if your friend is that upset about it I am sure he won't go back there, it is their loss. Are they bothered? I doubt it.


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## cheftoddmohr (Apr 17, 2009)

Nobody ever "saved" their way to success in the restaurant business. 
Saving the $0.25 food cost on a beer isn't going to make your establishment successful. Treating customers right and having them tell everyone about it makes a restaurant success.

I can't believe there is even debate about this on a professional forum. 

Sure, stand your ground on one beer, loose 4 entrees forever. It's short-sighted and foolish to argue this with a customer.


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## chefhow (Oct 16, 2008)

As a long time gastropub/bar owner we had a rule that when somebody ordered an off label of beer they were offered a 2oz pour to "sample" and more times than not it worked in our favor. 

Now would I have comp'd the customers beer, YES, because even as a new customer for every one person he/she told about a good experience they would have told 10 about a bad one. Even if I never saw that person come thru my doors again it stops a potential problem at the cost of a few cents or up to a dollar for a high end brew.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Some of you people think he should pay for it? You comp it. No questions asked.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Lots of spilled ink over this one.

Where I have agreed with everyone is as follows:

1) The guest had every right to be upset when given the bill. The exchanged or whatever beer should have been discussed. This would really tick me off if it happened to me. For this reason I would be willing to make a comp.--the server should have informed the guest, but NOT because the guest didn't like what he ordered.

2) Any intelligent and caring owner should comp _if the food or service are not up to standards._ This is, I believe, profesionalism.

3) Every place should offer samples of new stuff, either very small portions for free, or small portions (as an app or sample) for artificially low prices

I have owned my own businesses for close to 14 years now, and in the first two years I learned some very valuable lessons when dealing with customers and granting comps.

What I learned is to never be influenced by the consequences. That is, if I don't comp, the guy will go and bad-mouth me. I have put out a quality product/service and shouldn't be in a position to be threatened. Others may say that this (comping when a customer complains) is good business sense, but I don't like having a stick dangled infront of me. This is my decision, my choice.

Now take for instance the bloggers--PLEASE take the bloggers. I run an artisan chocolate and pastry shop. Every now and then I get an "In Cognito" blogger who orders his chocolates and beverage, sits down and hunches over a note book and fumbles with a cell-phone camera. This type of blogger invariably writes good or neutral stuff about my shop. And I have some off-the-wall chocolates too: Mango& jalepeno, Strawberry& pepper, Vanilla bean & bay leaf, Jasmine tea..... Usually two or more of these are available for sampling -for free--albeit in very small sizes. But I have never replaced a half-eaten chocolate with another one just because the guest didn't like it.....

The other type of blogger contacts me via e-mail and says he'd like to do an blog on me--or on a series of chocolate makers. Problem is, he either wants to be compensated with cash or product. I e-mail back and tell him that it would be wonderfull to do an blog on my shop, BUT, in order to be fair and neutral I don't think any compensation should be given. This results either in a link to said blog where I am dissed, or leads to a future blog where I am dissed. After the anger subsides, the blogs are kind of funny, because it's painfuly obvious the blogger has never been to my shop or tried any of my stuff, one claimed I offer "smarties and marshmallows glued on a Costco candy apple". Pretty hilarious...

My decison, my choice. Put out a quality product and service and stick to your guns.


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## electricputa (Apr 6, 2008)

as a home Brewer and a strong advocate of micro brews i have to say DO NOT COMP...

if the beer was pored wrong or the keg was kicked then that's one thing, but it had nothing to do with you or your restaurant. Plus that's the beauty and fun of trying craft beers. i get them all the time (ones i don't like,) but then i know... not to buy it again! 

moving forward, offer samples everyone wins...


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## bazza (Apr 2, 2007)

I have just reread the original post and notice that the guy was a regular for 10 years, in this case I would have replaced the beer free of charge, no problem. I do not however believe in a blanket policy of 'always comp, no questions asked' There are people out there whom I would not wish to return, with or without their friends. eace:


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Comping does two things. It's a cheap way to weed out the complainers and it retains customers. It's goodwill, kinda like the time you spend chatting up a client.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

I did a comp today because I made a mistake and the one part of the order was to take a longer time than it should have, so I told the server to run what i had and I comped them a small smootie for the wait.


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

I agree that the communication should have been better in this regard, but, philosophically, I am against comping in this instance. In the real world I probably would have comped it, but I don't see why the restaurant should have to eat the cost when there was nothing wrong with the product. It's just another way our society won't accept the consequences of our actions. It's a gamble every time you try something new. You might like it you might not, that's part of the fun of it. But why should the restaurant take the hit if you try something new and don't like it? You'd never consider taking the beer back to the liquor store just because you didn't like it (a whole other story if the beer was unsound). I would never expect a restaurant to comp something just because I wanted to try something new and didn't like it. And I'd love to tell anyone who does expect a comp in that situation to "man up" and deal with the consequences of their choices.

I understand that this is only a beer we are talking about, and doesn't cost much, so I would probably comp it, though it would drive me nuts to do so. A question for those of you who are pretty adamant about comping, what happens when it is the $21 foie gras app that the customer tried and didn't like or the $15 glass of cognac, or the $35 venison entree? Try reselling the $200 bottle of wine a customer returns just because they didn't like it. Not many tables will agree to purchase an already opened bottle in that price range unless you give to them at a steep discount. These aren't made up instances. I've seen all these happen and worse, nor are they as uncommon as some of you want to believe. 

I understand that we are a "service" industry, but we are the only "service" industry I know that allows customers to change their minds after purchasing and ruining a product and then getting their money back just because of their personal preference. And while I will probably continue to comp these small items, I do so grudgingly because it is wrong to expect a restaurant owner to eat the cost so that you can expand your personal horizons.


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

AGREED 100% 
Plus someone said the customer is not always right. Well it is our job to make them think they are, and seek a resolution to any problem. This is service with a smile,, this is what they are paying for, this is why they patronize us.


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## a_mak (Aug 27, 2009)

In my entire life I've never gone to a bar or restaurant, tried something, decided that I didn't like it or didn't want it, and expected to be comped. On the other hand, the restaurant that I work for comps for just about everything. So you see where I come out on this. To me the only time a restaurant should comp is when they make an error, such as not coming out the right temp, it takes too long, or if there's a hair or something on it. But if it's prepared how it should be then I don't see why it would be comped. Maybe if I was an owner or in FOH my perspective would be different. It would be easier just to comp. But what happens next time? Is this guy going to come in, try something else he's never had, then expect to be comped if he doesn't like it? At this point I wouldn't care if he never came back. 

And from a patron's perspective, there are times when I go out that I like to try something new. And the risk you take in trying new things is that you're not always going to like it. But you chalk it up to a learning experience. If they see that you don't like something and offer to comp it or replace it then great. But I don't expect it. Besides, it's beer we're talking about. Of course some are better than others. But unless it's Heineken or Milwaukee's Best, any beer is good beer or at least good enough to drink.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Pete, I don't think sending back the foie gras is even half as common as sending steaks back.

The true loss on any item should be right around food cost and that comes right off the bottom line. If the place is new then it should adjust for that after a while when they look at the total month to month food cost.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

This isn't steak, it isn't foie gras, it isn't a lot of things.

What it is -- is micro-brew beer. A beverage whose particular characteristics, by definition, will be unfamiliar to the customer. 

A customer who doesn't like the product is the risk a bar takes when selling unfamiliar beers. Comping an unhappy customer is good business and good manners. Climbing up on a high horse isn't. 

Merely presenting the beer without offering more information, is the establishement's way of saying "We think you'll like this." When the establishment is wrong, it should replace the offending cup without comment beyond, "sorry -- of course you can have something else." 

If your idea of running a bar (or the bar part of a restaurant) is to tell the customer, "Tough luck; you're responsible for covering the bad bet you made on our recommendation," I don't want to drink there.

After all, the customer wasn't the one who decided that selling "winter beer" which tastes like anti-freez, road-salt and bubbles was a good idea. 

The alternative to underwriting the customer's risk is to offer sample "shorts." Not a bad idea.

BDL


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

When I worked at the cafe we had a very open kitchen and I encouraged customers to try a small sample of a soup or stew if they were uneasy about it, or a few salad greens with an unfamiliar dressing, and most times they liked it and ordered the item. Sometimes they didn't and they just ordered something else, but they were happy and they kept coming back.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Yeah well, I've tried to make my case, and I'm not going anywhere with it, so I might as well take it to court.....

(The honourable Judge R. Bean presiding at the bench)

"BDL, you have been found guilty of white-washing the customer. With tongue planted firmly in-cheek, I hereby sentence you to 10 years less 1 Monday, as owner/operator of a cute 40 seat Italian place.

"As this is your first offence and have asked for lieniency, the court has granted that you may serve your sentence alone---that is without the ecumbrance of a spouse or immediate family member as a working partner.

"In accordance with common public perception, you shall be held responsible for the physical, mental, and especially financial well-being of ALL those who pass through your doors. This includes staff, regular customers, dine & dashers, scam artists, and event planners....

"Bailiff!! Take this man away and issue him with the keys, a float of $200, and a terlet plunger. Order in the court!!!.....



Hey, you got off easy! Hard time would be if you had a demo clause in the lease, but you don't have that, do you?....


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## hotchpotch (Oct 16, 2009)

Thank you all for your spirited replies, at least I can now feel I am no longer in the minority. 

Foodpump, if it makes you feel better at the other site it was easily 10:1 that he should NOT have received another beer without paying for both. The vast majority of these were plain old customers and they couldn't fathom why he should get one. 

That goes along with my theory that most people are not out to screw you, sure there are aways a few but most people when they have a problem just want an equitable solution.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

A Demo clause? You mean like being forced to hire or work with democraps? 
Oiye that would be painful. Regrettably in MI or CA it would only be cruel but not cruel and unusual. Thus our friend BDL at least in the great state of MI would not likely have much luck with his State Supreme Court appeal. 
Better make that a heavy duty plunger. :lol:
FWIW I tried a few micro brews over the last few weeks I didn't like much. Never thought of having them comped but I have no doubt if I would have asked they would have come of the bill. 
My solution was to pound it down and order another........
Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurp


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## crazycorey (Jun 24, 2010)

I would probably comp the beer and drink it myself. : ) 

No but seriously, the beer should be comped, especially since the customer is a regular. Regulars keep the restaurant going, plus you wouldn't want to cause a scene over a beer. 

Personally. as a customer  I would never try to return a beer. After all, It usually takes about half a beer for me to adjust to any new beer, especially microbrews. I may not like the first few sips, but then I get used to it and start liking it most of the time.

At the last place I worked, an Irish pub, they had small four ounce sample glasses that looked like little mini Guinness glasses, and customers could ask for samples if they were trying something new. In fact, the bartenders would often offer samples if the customer expressed interest in trying something new. That way if a customer doesn't like a new beer, there is minimal waste.


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## grits-n-gravy (Feb 28, 2008)

Before I throw my 2 cents in:

*I assume we all agree that if you have a 10 year regular, you wouldn't quibble over comping a beer. I'm assuming we are talking about the situation in general.

* We are the folks behind the curtain, so I also assume no Restaurant professional would order a micro brew without tasting it and not want to pay.

*The paint store analogy is an invalid comparison. Buying paint doesn't provide nourishment to the body, isn't a social event, and doesn't involve a palate.

As to this situation, I have to ask myself this question-,"do I want to feel good, or do good?".

Being on the front lines of serving the general public, we many times have to swallow our pride. Many other times we are the fall guy for one of our employee's, and other imes are a punching bag for some miserable person that wants to take out his misery on you. It NO DOUBT feels good to fight back, and remind someone they are playing an away game...but is that smart? I have to guard against my ego costing me money, and remember what my primary purpose is.

I say no. Every customer is a commercial. Customers (I prefer guests) are the best and only sure marketing plan we will ever have in this crazy business. I come from the old school myself. My mentor never spent a cent on advertising and did very well for himself. For instance, we opened a restaurant in an alley of a smaller sized cities almost totally vacant downtown, and he still wouldn't spend a dime on advertising. We would get a few tables a night the first few weeks, but we blew those few guests away. In 3 months we were the hottest ticket in town (granted it was a small southern town),..it was all word of mouth.

There is only ONE situation in which you are guaranteed to make a regular for life or an enemy for life...that's when something goes wrong (perceived or real).

React well, and make it right (making it "right" often costs little to nothing $$ wise) and you got a friend...handle it wrong and instead of having a commercial, you get an attack add.

Most of this hinges on the manager/chef approaching the guest as an advocate for them(the guest), not an attorney for the restaurant (or an angry father protecting his children *staff*). Be accountable, tell the guest what you're going to do, and then do it...If I do that well, 99% of the time that guest that was angry or disapointed before is shaking my hand and thanking me.

Why on earth.in this day of Twitter, Yelp, Facebook, and MySpace would I piss someone off over a $1 beer?

Why would I risk this guy going on a crusade to hurt my business over $1? Most people on these social networking sites have HUNDREDS of friends, many living in the same area.....its a pretty easy call for me.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Old thread....

I guess one of my biggest regrets is not having spent more time in other cities in the last 15 or so years.

Vancouver is a "Foodie" town. (this is with rose coloured glasses)

Vancouver is a mean and dirty town when it comes to the restaurant business, on every street there is 2 or 3 of the same types of businesses for the customer.

And the customers know this and vote with their feet.

I do respect the customer,and I know which side of my bread is buttered.

I also know that almost every customer that walks through my door, or through anyone elses's door is looking for a free lunch.

Now, take for instance my "customer card", which I offer to customers at a nominal fee of $10.00 and allows them to enjoy a 10 % discount on any _*regular priced *_item in the store. And we stress this when issueing the card. For the most part nothing happens untill our annual vaction when we close down for 10 in August and in January, when we close down for 5 days. Just before closing down we have a 40% off sale.

Guess how many customers _*INSIST *_we give them the 10% ontop of the 40%?

A true diplomat can tell you to go to he77 in such a way that you actually look forward to the trip, and I certainly try......

Does the customer actually respect the owner, respect in a way that acknowledges that the owner is entilteld to cover his costs and earn a little something i.e. a, (gasp) salary?

Does it take a P.O.'d owner to educate them?

When we first opened, we had a no-deposit policy on special order and custom cakes. What a mess, no one honoured it, they would order and "forget" to pick up, or when picking up griping about the price, or insisting that it "didn't look like the picture" in my brochure. (hint hint, I want a discount) After 6 mths we had enough and requried a Visa # on all special orders. That was almost 3 years ago and we have had almost 0 complaints

Yeah, yeah, facebook and all that. Look, ontop of all that, Vancouver city has over 150 foodie bloggers. A true definition of someone gone bonkers is someone trying to please everyone all the time. I've had blooogers complain about the building I'm in, the state of the C.of Vancouver's tree's infront of my building, the fact that I claim to be Swiss but don't have an accent, you name it.

I put out a good prodcut, I charge a decent price, I offer free samples, I offer information about products, I respect the customer, and I also respect myself and my business.


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## greyeaglem (Apr 17, 2006)

I once ordered a micro brew beer that was absolutely horrible. Tasted worse than any medicine I ever took, but tight-wad that I am I drank it anyway because I'd paid more than 3 bucks for it, and that's a lot of money for a tap beer around here. My reward for "sucking it up"? I looked down and saw a $5 bill laying on the floor by my feet. Figured it was a refund from God. I know where Pump is coming from though. Where do you draw the line? I had a woman order a 4 piece cod dinner with lemon pepper on it and then say she didn't like it (too bad). She could have ordered lemon pepper on one or two pieces to see if she liked it, we will do that. Then a week or so ago, I had a table of four come in. Three of them ordered batter-fried walleye, and one had planked salmon. The salmon came back with the person saying it was tough, dry and tasted bad. They had taken a very small bite of the thinnest part. They wanted walleye instead. I know what happened. There was nothing wrong with the salmon, they just decided the walleye looked better. We replaced it because the diner indicated there was something wrong with it, but there wasn't. I think in the future I should only offer to remake the same item. I had it happen with a blackened tuna where the person claimed "the blackening just totally overwhelms the taste of the tuna". (Oh? And what did you think blackening would do to it?)  They then wanted it replaced with walleye. Again, I should have offered to remake the tuna minus the blackening, although by rights they should have paid for it as it was their choice. The waitress serving it thinks we don't know how to do it right, but we do. I just hate the whole blackening thing as I think it ruins the food. I cringe when people order blackened Canadian walleye. What a waste!


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## ckster (Jul 14, 2010)

I would say comped.  If it were to happen in my restaurant, it would be comped. 

I've had a few situations where I was a patron and I didn't like a beer.  Once I felt it was too flat, and it was taken away and replaced with another beer and the item was taken off the bill.  Another time, a buddy of mine didn't like the PITCHER that we purchased, and it was taken away and taken off the bill.


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## theages (Feb 7, 2010)

In our restaurant we offer comps sometimes, and deny comps at others.  Everyone gets the benefit of the doubt and we will offer a comp if we feel that the situation warrents it. Ultimately we determine whether or not we feel this customer is believable and valuable.

In this example, this is a long time customer.  If they frequently expect comps, then we cut them off.  But if they rarely complain, then we consider their complaint genuine and will offer an appropriate comp in order to retain their long term patronage.

Why would I piss off a long term customer just because he made one bad decision?  Especially if it was an inexpensive bad decision.  Who cares who is right or wrong.

A phone company recently pissed me off.  I had been a customer for 9 yrs and never asked for anything, but really hated my most recent phone purchase.  They refused to let me exchange it.  I offered to pay a fee to exchange it.  Denied.  I tried 4 different managers in different stores.  I sent an email stating the short sightedness of saving $100 and losing annual serve fees of over $1400, times 20 years equals $28,000.  Denied.  I was insensed at the lack of customer service and the absolute stupidity of the company.  I dumped them, even though I had to pay an early cancellation fee.  Suddenly they started caling me asking what they could do for me ...Piss Off.

My point, don't piss off a good customer.  But weed out the bad ones.


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