# Does boiling an egg for 45 seconds kill salmonella?



## abefroman (Mar 12, 2005)

Does boiling an egg for 45 seconds kill salmonella?



> How does the Reluctant Gourmet coddle an egg? Easy, bring a small pot of water to fast boil and gently place the egg into it and cook for 45 seconds.


TIA


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

I don't know, but I can tell you a good way to test it: coddle 12 eggs this way, one by one, and as they come out of the water crack them and test the yolks. If they've hit 170F, yes, they're OK. If they're at about 160F or below, no. Eggs are quite small, and I doubt the carryover would be sufficient to knock a 160F yolk up to 170F. The cutoff on salmonella is basically 165F, but it has to be held for a little bit; at 170F you can pretty much just touch the temperature and it's all clear.

My bet: no. But I'd be very pleased to be proven wrong.


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## abefroman (Mar 12, 2005)

Thanks!

I may try that experiment tomorrow.


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## abefroman (Mar 12, 2005)

Eggperiment Results:
1 gallon of water, 2 tests 3 eggs at a time

Test 1:
45 Seconds = 66 deg
1 Min 30 Seconds = 77 deg
2 Min 15 Seconds = 87 deg

Test 2:
3 Min = 97 deg
4 Min 30 Seconds = 122 deg
6 Min = 137 deg
(I ran out of eggs)


So, this shows that even a soft boiled egg can have salmonella, and you would have to go probably 8-10 minutes to kill it, and at that point you are getting close to a hard boil.


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

Jeepers -- I'm surprised the results were THAT bad. How fast was the water going? Rapid boil, or gentle simmer, while the eggs were cooking?


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## charron (Feb 3, 2010)

I wonder if the claim is simply to kill salmonella on the shell, and assume (if the shell is not breached by cracks) that the bacterium did not get inside... but then, why bother? /img/vbsmilies/smilies/confused.gif


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## abefroman (Mar 12, 2005)

ChrisLehrer said:


> Jeepers -- I'm surprised the results were THAT bad. How fast was the water going? Rapid boil, or gentle simmer, while the eggs were cooking?


I kept it at a rapid boil.


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

Cooking an egg for 45 seconds in boiling water will kill an salmonella that has contaminated the outside of the egg, but not any that was inside of the egg.  Eggs can be contaminated in 2 basic ways.  First, if the chicken is infected it can pass it on to the egg as it forms.  Secondly a chicken can have the salmonella bacteria in its lower intestine without being "ill" and pass it on to the outside of the egg during the laying process or as she sits on it.  The surface infection is easily killed by the method described above.  Pasteurizing the interior is quite a tricky process as egg whites will start coagulate at around 140°F while yolks generally start to coagulate and denature around 150-155°F.  An egg will be set all the way through by the time it hits about 170, give or take a few degrees.


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## rose789 (Feb 20, 2010)

i think the time is a little short

TaylorMade R7 XR Iron Set 
Taylormade R7 Draw Iron Set


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## tuscan chef (Jan 27, 2010)

No it won't kill salmonella. Only if on the surface of the egg.
Add salt to the water and you will get a little better result


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## homemadecook (Jan 27, 2010)

I agreed that , if the shell wont crack how came the bacteria can get inside you are right ! I felt worry if egg those bacteria because im fun eating egg .. i like this as my breakfast ..Egg with milk .. hehhe


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

Here in the US the statistics are that 1 in about 20,000 eggs is infected with salmonella.  This is probably a lot lower in most other countries as they don't use the same factory farming processes that the US does, in which animals are packed very closely together in very unsanitary condidtions.


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## dillonsmimi (Dec 2, 2009)

The risk of becoming ill from an infected egg is very low unless you fall into one of the high risk groups...very young, very old or compromised immune system.


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## homemadecook (Jan 27, 2010)

is salmonella can be found on fruits and vegetables or that are not cooked or washed properly as well????


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

dillonsmimi said:


> The risk of becoming ill from an infected egg is very low unless you fall into one of the high risk groups...very young, very old or compromised immune system.


...or pregnant, felt it needed to be added.

Abe - what did you do with all those eggs?!! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/surprised.gif

I coddle my eggs at a low boil for 3-4 mins then out into cold water or use straight away. Eggs should be at room temp first though! Have never had a problem, but I'm not a food scientist. That just works for me cuz that's how I like them and I'm still alive and cooking. My kids have eaten them since they were toddlers with toast "soldiers" - they lived /img/vbsmilies/smilies/bounce.gif


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## charron (Feb 3, 2010)

HomeMadeCook said:


> is salmonella can be found on fruits and vegetables or that are not cooked or washed properly as well????


_Botulism _can be found on any fruit or veg that comes in direct contact with soil. It is easily managed with a good washing, but the less smooth a veg is, the more attention to its scrubbing you should pay... in general, but especially when canning. Its a good idea to make sure you don't store garden fruits and veg in airtight containers since botulism thrives where oxygen is limited. Or so says the local health inspector. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif


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## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

Personally I don't worry about salmonella from eggs.  Raw chicken, however, is a different story.

Abe, did you start with eggs fresh out of the fridge or at room temp?


mjb.


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## homemadecook (Jan 27, 2010)

hi charron thanks for the info . Now i understand .


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## gerdosh (Feb 4, 2010)

Yes, it does. As a culinary scientist, let me give you a guide: In fried eggs, e.g. when the whites are firm but yolks are still not, the eggs are safe. At that stage the eggs come to about 145 degrees, totally safe to eat. Besides, egg white are safe even raw. Only the nutritious egg yolks are attacked by microorganisms. Egg whites contain antibacterial agents and are not very nutrition filled for the little buggers.


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## homemadecook (Jan 27, 2010)

What? the egg white contain antibacterial agents and are not very nutrition filled for the little buggers. Why ?


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## abefroman (Mar 12, 2005)

teamfat said:


> Personally I don't worry about salmonella from eggs. Raw chicken, however, is a different story.
> 
> Abe, did you start with eggs fresh out of the fridge or at room temp?
> 
> mjb.


Out of the fridge


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## abefroman (Mar 12, 2005)

DC Sunshine said:


> Abe - what did you do with all those eggs?!! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/surprised.gif


I threw them out, they were expired anyway


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

Abe - I reckon start with them room temp next experimentation time - I rarely refrigerate my eggs unless its really hot weather - but that's just me as a home cook. We use them up pretty quickly here so no prob with expiration date - never get close to it /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif


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## gnnairda (Aug 7, 2009)

HomeMadeCook said:


> What? the egg white contain antibacterial agents and are not very nutrition filled for the little buggers. Why ?


well I'm not totally sure about it being anti- bacterial but the conditions in an egg white is probably not fit for salmonella to grow as its pure proteins and salmonella needs sugar which can be found in the egg yolk.


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## homemadecook (Jan 27, 2010)

gNnairdA said:


> well I'm not totally sure about it being anti- bacterial but the conditions in an egg white is probably not fit for salmonella to grow as its pure proteins and salmonella needs sugar which can be found in the egg yolk.


Ok thanks for the info about that . Il just take more research about that for me to understand and learn more . Mmmmh il just confuse .


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## greyeaglem (Apr 17, 2006)

You can buy pasteurizd eggs in the store and save yourself the trouble. We used to "sanitize" eggs years ago by pouring boiling water over and letting stand 3 min. Salmonella is carried in the feces of chicken and so the contamination is considered to be limited to outer contact on the shell. The contamination would occur from the egg coming in contact with a contaminated shell after cracking. Now, the question I always have about this is I know egg shells are porous, so I would think the salmonella could "seep" in. I don't know if that would be possible as I have never looked at an egg shell or salmonella cell through a microscope. The salmonella cell may be too big to penetrate the pores in the egg shell. I don't know. Shell structure is also determined by breed of chicken and feed, so I would think there would be variables from egg to egg. The risk for salmonella in eggs is very low, as pointed out by other posts. It's one of those things I equate as having the same likelihood as being hit by lightning while you're cashing in your winning lottery ticket. I wouldn't worry about it.


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## gunnar (Apr 3, 2008)

the main reason an egg goes "bad" in general is that as it ages the pores get bigger until its integrity is ruined.


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## fr33_mason (Jan 9, 2008)

abefroman said:


> I threw them out, they were expired anyway


Old eggs make for better hard-boiled eggs as they are easier to peel than fresh ones. Someting to consider in the future.


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## homemadecook (Jan 27, 2010)

There many way people use to choose best quality of eggs to be bought . Some of them look at see eggshell color, cleanliness, whether there are cracks. Fresh eggs eggshell integrity, matte surface with a layer of white powder, hand touching the shell has a rough feeling." said, eggshell color a lot, and some partial powder, and some yellowish, and some Partial green, in fact, almost all nutrients. Some people think that the egg shell powder is best, in fact, not all. Eggshell color depth and egg production, is generally the initial egg shell color the most, and then faded. Shell can also be changed by selecting the depth of color; white shell egg and brown egg shell hybrid, the next egg is out of the shell powder, and nutritional value of eggs, no differences with the other. In addition, we must carefully observe the egg noodles, egg noodles, such as hair or faeces Ukraine, crack, it can not buy. Meanwhile, the egg surface color is uneven or has not had to buy a lot of pitting.


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## stephenson (Jan 16, 2013)

My scenario is; A friend was incubating some eggs for 10 days at a temperature of approximately 100 degrees.  This is about half of the incubation period.  At 10 days he examined the eggs and some were not fertile so he removed them from the incubator then later he hard boiled them. He then ate them and I mentioned that I would be concerned about the bacterium.

Was I wrong to be concerned or would the eggs be completely harmless?

Thanks.


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## ayemba45 (Jan 16, 2013)

It may kill the salmonella inside but not in the outside!
So watch out for that!!


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## harrycovert (Jun 24, 2013)

Consumer Reports' latest tests found contamination in 66 percent of supermarket chicken. Not just 1 in 20,000!! You see this a lot: people just don't want facts that threaten their habits. I have no idea how dangerous salmonella actually is but many chickens you eat are infected.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Just the reverse it will kill contaminants on outside. As far as inside, unless cracked it would be almost sterile like our bodies. We get infection from an opening in skin like a scrape or cut.

Salmonella is rampart in poultry. younger children and seniors are the most prone to get it. One of biggest sources is a hospital.


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## jmorgan (Nov 14, 2014)

Thanks, Pete.  I always thought that salmonella was on the inside until I saw a cooking show that said to boil the egg for x amount of time to kill the salmonella on the outside.  THEN I thought THAT was all that was needed! Now you say that it is on the inside as well.  Phew!  Lots of conflicting info out there.  Thanks for your post!  Now I think I'll go to my college's library database and see what else I can find out based on research.  I LOVE raw cookie dough, been eating it as a kid, would rather have it than the cookie...well, maybe I won't go that far...and yes, like the raw stuff from SAM's club.  Unfortunately, eating raw cookie dough (and cake batter) are a part of our family culture, but if I can be more smart about it (without going "scientifically or politically correct" so to speak to ruin the family traditions, that would be great!  And no, I'm not a junk food junkie.  I typically don't even eat the cookies that I make for our family because I freeze them.  I can't be bothered by a frozen cookie (but the rest of my family can)


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## jmorgan (Nov 14, 2014)

Article:

Recovery of Salmonella serovar Enteritidis from inoculated broiler hatching eggs using shell rinse and shell crush sampling methods.
 
Author:

Webb, M. L.
 
Journal:

Poultry science
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ISSN:

0032-5791

Date:

08/01/2014
 
Volume:

93

Issue:

8

Page:

2117 - 2122


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## jmorgan (Nov 14, 2014)

Article:

Assessment of the risk of salmonellosis from internally contaminated shell eggs following initial storage at 18 °C (65 °F), compared with 7 °C (45 °F).
 
Author:

Pouillot, R.
 
Journal:

Food microbiology
 
ISSN:

0740-0020

Date:

10/01/2014

Volume:

43

Page:

16 - 19

Might be better than the last scientific study, but for me, what I have learned that salmonella can be present on one or both parts of an egg.


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## mtullius (Feb 20, 2014)

Just want to point out the purpose of coddling eggs is not necessarily to kill bacteria, but to slightly thicken them for use in things like ceaser dressing. This is why the Reluctant Goumet coddled the egg.


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

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chefboyog


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Nov 14, 2014








Just some info from CRFA Food Safety Code of Practice

If your going to necro an old thread at least it was interesting. Did them articles mention anything usefull @JMorgan?

I love easy yolks, whites not so much. Id put an easy egg o. Just about anything. Funny no servers ever " inform " me or anyone else about the " pathogens" haha use info as see fit.


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## jmorgan (Nov 14, 2014)

Basically, like I said..."what I have learned is that salmonella can be present on one or both parts of an egg."  That's enough for me for now.  Mtullius threw her two bits in about coddling.  Doesn't seem to kill salmonella, though, right?  So what's a good cook to do when it comes to the Hollandaise sauce, a Caesar dressing, or coddled egg?


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## jmorgan (Nov 14, 2014)

I wouldn't have a clue, but how does he feel?!


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

JMorgan said:


> I wouldn't have a clue, but how does he feel?!


??

I guess Salmonella is killed at 145. Id like to see some studies. Teacher told me this morning in food safe training that 1 in 24 chickens is infected and that he wont eat runny yolks. Im not ready to give up my eggs just yet.

Sorry about the confusion about what you learned haha. Looked like random article search with no quotes from it.

So all I can say is in my opinion a good cook can takes the information and does the best they can with it. Me, Im going to ignore the science and eat a bunch of over easy eggs. Good or bad who know lokenyoubsaid its confusing. Eat your dough I'd advise. You only live once or twice.

Im really tired so I hope this makes some kind of sense haha


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

I have two things to add to this discussion

1) There's no magic temperature where all Salmonella is immediately dead. They start dying off at 136 F, but it takes a long time. Here's a graph of how long it takes to kill off salmonella to a safe level in chicken meat, which is a different substrate than an egg of course, but it gives you an idea.





  








GS1iT9s.jpg




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millionsknives


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Nov 20, 2014








2) This reminds me of an article on why other countries are okay not refrigerating their eggs

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/20...-chills-its-eggs-and-most-of-the-world-doesnt

I would say that an unwashed egg is actually safer on the inside, as long as you don't contaminate it in the cracking process. Then again if you crack and use right away, there's no time for bacteria to grow. It's getting late here. Blasted insomnia!


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

When hard cooking eggs .Peel wearing gloves, this cuts down possibility of contamination. To be EXTRA safe after peeling dip eggs in boiling water again for about 60 seconds. Then place in cold water.


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## jmorgan (Nov 14, 2014)

You make sense, and I totally agree .  I did read the articles but have spent way too much time researching articles and writing about them lately (for my MS) to feel like quoting them.  The articles should be available through a Google or Google Scholars search. Anyway, doesn't seem like they matter much.  Too much conflicting info out there...I'll stick with my runny yolks and eat my cookie dough, too.  I'll take my chances with raw oysters as well...another discussion for another time, I suppose...   Take care!


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## mtullius (Feb 20, 2014)

Use pasteurized eggs.

http://www.safeeggs.com/store-locator

You will still need to coddle them if the recipe calls for it, because as I said, the purpose of coddling is to thicken the egg.


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

I may be mis informed but I was under the impression that all eggs were pasteurized these days. My Food Safe trainer suggested that it is cost prohibitive for all eggs to be pasteurized and that only the most expensive eggs are; and they are labeled as so. I forgot to check at the store today. I will ask around someday.

Some wiki info
The 2013 FDA Food Code states that in serving highly susceptible populations (preschool age children; older adults; individuals with compromised immune systems; and individuals who receive meals through custodial care-giving environments such as child or adult day care centers, kidney dialysis centers, hospitals, or nursing homes [11]): "Pasteurized eggs or egg products shall be substituted for raw eggs in the preparation of Foods such as Caesar salad, hollandaise or Béarnaise sauce, mayonnaise, meringue, eggnog, ice cream, egg-fortified beverages and recipes in which more than one egg is broken and the eggs are combined."[4]


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## mtullius (Feb 20, 2014)

A friend in Canada told me that all their eggs are pasteurized but I don't find anything to confirm that.

More wiki info-"All egg products sold in the U.S must be pasteurized due to the risk of food-borne illnesses per U.S. Department of Agriculture rules...They also do not recommend eating shell eggs that are raw or undercooked." Note egg "products" must be pasteurized but apparently not the shell eggs themselves. Maybe this is where you got the impression all eggs are pasteurized.


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