# Perfectly Wonderful Roast Chicken



## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

"Perfect" roast chicken has the reputation of being one of those things which is so simple it's difficult. It's also known as something which if done simply and well is perfectly wonderful. Half right. Perfectly wonderful roast chicken requires good ingredients and a modicum of technique. Technique will carry ordinary chicken fairly far - but there are limits. A good chicken is "free range" (in the ordinary sense of the word, that is not cage raised), and freshly killed and dressed. The optimal period for freshness is 6 to 24 hours after processing. This represents a real shopping problem for some people. You can make an _almost perfect and still wonderful roast chicken with a supermarket chicken_, just not perfect.

Brining is not an absolutely essential part of making great roast chicken. It helps an awful lot though. If you do brine - and you should try it at least once - you'll have to reduce the amount of salt in the "rub" by half.

PERFECTLY WONDERFUL ROAST CHICKEN

Ingredients, Brine: 
6 cups water, divided
1 onion
1/3 cup sugar
1/3 cup table salt, or 1/2 cup Morton kosher salt, or 2/3 cup Diamond kosher salt
1/4 cup dry (white) Vermouth
1 lemon
18 ice cubes.

Ingredients, Rub (with brine):
1-1/2 tbs kosher salt
1-1/2 tbs smoked (preferably) or mild paprika
1-1/2 tbs fresh, coarsely ground black pepper
1-1/2 tbs herbes de Provence

Ingredients, Rub (without brine):
1/4 cup kosher salt
1-1/2 tbs smoked (preferably) or mild paprika
1-1/2 tbs fresh, coarsely ground black pepper
1-1/2 tbs herbes de Provence

Ingredients, Chicken:
1 3-1/2 to 4-1/2 lb fresh chicken
1 lemon 
2 tbs butter, softened, divided
(Optional) 1 tsp truffle oil, or juice, or 1/2 tsp of truffle pieces
2 sprigs fresh rosemary, divided
2 sprigs fresh thyme or 1 tbs divided
Salt and pepper

Ingredients, Jus:
2 tbs cold butter, divided
1 cup mirepoix (1/2 cup onions, medium dice, 1/4 cup carrots, medium dice, and 1/4 cup celery, medium dice)
1 cup chicken stock

Technique:
Prepare the brine, as follows: 
Peel and rough chop the onion. Put it in a pan with 6 cups water, the salt and the sugar. Heat over a high flame, until the water just boils. Meanwhile cut the lemon in quarters. Remove the pan from the flame. Stir the brine to make sure the salt and sugar have dissolved. Squeeze about half the juice from each quarter into the brine, then add the partially squeezed rinds to the hot brine the brine to steep. After 15 minutes, add the Vermouth, and the ice.

Brine the chicken, as follows: 
Rinse the chicken inside and out. Place the chicken in a close fitting pot and pour the brine over it, so the chicken is completely covered. Cover the pot and refrigerate the chicken in the brine for between 2 and 24 hours. 6 to 12 hours is optimal.

Prepare the rub, as follows: 
Mix all ingredients, reserve.

Prepare the chicken to roast, as follows:
Preheat the oven to 425F

Remove the chicken from the brine and dry it inside and out. The inside should be as dry as possible, the skin should be absolutely dry. Don't settle for damp skin, it will not crisp properly.

Season the cavity with a pinch or two of the rub.

Loosen the skin on the breasts and thighs by massaging it back and forth, until you can slide your fingers inside the skin and onto the meat. Make sure the butter is very soft, and combine it with the truffle pieces, juice or oil. Slide half of the butter under the skin on each side of the breast, and distribute it as evenly as possible over the breast and onto the thigh if possible (may be a problem for big hands). While your hands are still buttery, rub them over the outside of the chicken. Sprinkle the chicken generously, all over, with rub. Make sure you get some in the space between the area between thigh and breast. You'll be eating it, so it might as well taste good.

Cut the lemon in half, and place it in the cavity, along with a sprig of rosemary and thyme.

Bend the wing tips back so the wings stay behind the bird. Truss the wings close to the bird, by tying a single band of twine around the wings and bird. Tie with a surgeon's knot. (A surgeon's knot is a regular "square knot with an extra wrap on the first hitch. The extra wrap will hold the twine while you make the second hitch. If this makes no sense, just forget it and tie it as best you can.) If you have a trussing needle, loosely sew the cavity shut. If not, forget it. Tie the legs together at the "ankles." Truss the thighs to the body with another single band and surgeon's knot. In short: Legs, thighs, wings - cavity optional. The purpose of trussing the bird is to protect the breast and so that it cooks evenly.

Place a rack in a baking pan, and set the chicken on the rack, with a leg/wing side up. Put 1 tbs of cold butter in the pan. Put the pan in the oven.

After 15 minutes, rotate the bird, so the other leg/wing side is up.

After another 15 minutes, rotate the bird again, so the back is up and the breast down. Add the mirepoix to the bottom of the pan, along with the remaining sprigs of rosemary and thyme.

After another 15 - 25 minutes (depending on the bird's size - 15 minutes for a 3-1/2 lb bird; 20 minutes for a 4 pounder, and 25 minutes for the big kahuna), rotate the bird so that it's breast side up. Reduce the heat to 350.

Cook for another 20 - 30 minutes. You may test for doneness with a thermometer (breast 155, thigh 165), or by piercing the thickest part of the thigh with a toothpick. Clear juices signal the bird is done, pink tinged require more cooking.

Set the bird to rest on your carving board and cover it tightly with aluminum foil. It must rest at least 10 minutes. Don't worry about it cooling down. It tastes better warm than hot. It's also a critical part of making juicy chicken.

Meanwhile bring the baking dish to the stove top, and set it on a low flame. Deglaze the pan with the chicken stock, bring to a boil and reduce by about 25%. Sieve the jus, pressing the mirepoix to force all the juices from it. Discard the mirepoix. Whisk the cold butter into the hot jus to enrich it. Reserve and hold warm.

Carve the bird as follows: 
Separate a leg quarter from the body at the thigh. Separate the leg and the thigh. Reserve on the board. Run a sharp knife along the keel (breast) bone and remove the breast meat from the bone, until you reach the wing. Using the point of your knife, disjoint the wing from the carcass, while keeping it attached to the breast. Remove the entire breast and wing. Cut roughly in half. The part without the wing is called the _supreme_ in French. If you share this wonderful knowledge, you will invariably be asked what the other piece is called. Say, _Jean-Paul_. Repeat the carving process for the other side of the chicken. The joke will not bear repetition.

Plate or arrange the chicken on a platter. Spoon a little jus over the chicken - enough to make the chicken shine and puddle slightly on the plate. Transfer the remaining jus to a sauce-boat so the guests may pass it among themselves.

Reserve and refrigerate the carcass for roast chicken stock.

PS This is the first draft of a recipe I intend to put in my book. It was inspired, as are so many of my ideas, by a discussion in Chef Talk. Any comments or feedback you care to give are welcome. If you like the recipe and instructions enough to want to share them, please attribute them to me, Boar D. Laze. I'd be grateful if you could also mention the working title of my book: _*COOK FOOD GOOD: American Cooking and Technique for Beginners and Intermediates.
*_
Hope you enjoy it, and ... Thanks,
BDL


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

The above is the first draft of a recipe I intend to put in my book. It was inspired, as are so many of my ideas, by a discussion in Chef Talk. Any comments or feedback you care to give are welcome.

If you like the recipe and instructions enough to want to share them, please attribute them to me, Boar D. Laze. I'd be grateful if you could also mention the working title of my book: _*COOK FOOD GOOD: American Cooking and Technique for Beginners and Intermediates.*_ Hope you enjoy it, and ...

Thanks,
BDL


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

I think the brine is too potent.

and...

You still rinse your chicken?


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

"Normal" brine is 1 cup table salt per gallon liquid. Assuming 18 ice cubes is more than 2 cups of water (and it is), this is a moderately weak brine, 2/3 cup table salt per gallon plus. My experience with chicken is that it benefits from roughly equal amounts of acid (at normal vinegar strength) and granulated sugar. 

That said, how much table salt would you add to two quarts of water? 
Almost always. I know too much about large commercial operations not to rinse. In this case, considering the chicken's going into a brine, I don't foresee a lot of flavor loss.

Don't you?

BDL


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

For 1/2 gallon I'd do 1/2c table salt if I'm doing a slow brine, more salt for a quick brine.

Yeah I rinse my chicken too.  We're old fashioned I guess.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Kuan,

Bro, I don't get it. I specified 1/3 cup table salt and you said: My 1/3 is less than your 1/2 cup. I think you got confused by the 2/3c of Diamond kosher. The rule of thumb is 1 unit table = 1-1/2 Morton kosher = 2 Diamond kosher. What I forgot to do was specify "not iodized, if possible," because of the potential for discoloration. 

Anyway, no matter whether I've got to do some adjusting or not, thanks for the feedback. It's good to have someone as competent as you watching my back, and it's exactly what I hoped for.

BDL


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Free range chickens have access to an area outside of the cage, but don't necessarily go out, and, if they do, the area is usually pretty small and the birds don't get much exercise. I no longer buy such chickens, and have started buying pastured chickens which are kept outside, often in large, moveable pens, so that they can scratch for bugs and eat grass in addition to their regular feed, as chickens were meant to do.

We are starting to see more air chilled birds in the markets these days, much more than a year ago. Look for air chilled birds as a better tasting, better quality, and healthier/safer alternative to birds that have been processed in water.

For roasting, I like the larger birds for their greater flavor, and Petaluma Poultry, makers of Rocky, Rockie Jr., and Rosie organic birds, are now producing what they call a "heritage" chicken, one that's a little bigger, older, and, supposedly, more flavorful, than their regular birds. There are, of course, lots of other choices for quality birds.

As you've suggested, supermarket birds packed in plastic trays really don't make a great tasting roast chicken. They are, for the most part, lacking in flavor, sold with as much as 8% added water, and have often been frozen and defrosted by the time they're purchased. 

scb


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## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

Nitpicking editor stuff, in the carving section:

'From' is probably not the word you want there. I usually carve in the fricassee style with the wing attached TO the breast when we have guests, that is something they don't see at KFC. When it is just my wife and I, we eat the legs, thighs and wings, keep the breasts intact for sandwiches and salads Well, not all the time, a freshly roasted chicken breast that hasn't been overcooked and dried out is quite tasty. 

I imagine you'll have a section on basic principles and techniques and can tout the virtues of brining poultry in greater depth. It seems like you underplay it in this particular recipe, but as you say it isn't essential for a roast bird.

As mentioned a time or two, I'm a big fan of citrus stuck inside poultry, glad to see it here. I usually toss in a clove or two of garlic as well. Speaking of which, if part of your intended audience is those just starting out down the path of making good food, you may want to mention somwehere the difference between a head and a clove of garlic. Not that putting two HEADS of garlic in a chicken would ruin it for me, mind you!

mjb.


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## tessa (Sep 9, 2007)

we never brine our chicken at all over here why do you all brine your chicken??


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

No you're right. Gallon is 16 cups. Maybe I gotta go back to school to learn arithmetic.


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

Hi Bdl, 
You asked for feedback and i'll give you the feedback from my point of view as a home cook. I do pretty difficult things, i cook a lot of stuff, i have several dozen cookbooks and i love to read them. I guess i'm an intermediate cook, since i don;t have any professional training, though after some 35 to 40 years cooking i have good skills, chop and peel and do everything quick enough for a professional kitchen (come home from work and want to give your family a really good meal and start chopping - that sort of thing). Anyway, take my comments with a (dare i say it) grain of salt. 

I find your recipe too long. I don;t know right now how i would shorten it, but i have the feeling that most people would be put off by all the detail, and would (wrongly) think its way too hard for their "beginner's" cooking skills. 

On brining - i guess in the States everyone has plenty of room to brine - i would be hard put to keep an american-sized chicken in my fridge just in the wrapper, much less in a pot of brine. I don;t know if this is crap technique, but i found with turkey (that tends to get dry) that injecting a salt solution under the skin into the flesh does what they say brining does. You can tell me if this is correct. I could try to flavor it, but i do the chopped herbs and butter under the skin technique so it's pretty well-flavored (i find rosemary too strong and makes everything taste the same - perhaps some strong reaction to italian cooking that seems to rely exclusively on rosemary for meat and potatoes and all the meat tastes the same to me) and prefer marjoram and garlic butter under the skin, but that';s just a question of taste. 

I think you might try to write a shortened version of the recipe first, then elaborate later. 
e.g. 
1.Brine the chicken in bla bla bla
2. dry THOROUGHLY
3. rub with.....
4 stuff under skin with... 
etc. 

then you could follow it with a more detailed description. I find i need to have a sense of the recipe first, quickly, so i know what i'm getting in for, then later if i don;t understand somethingm, i want the details. You could say "recipe outline" or "recipe for experienced cooks" and then follow with "recipe for beginners" or "notes to recipe" or something, and cover the point numbered in the same way. As i say, just my personal opinion. Oh, and i find the picky details like about the supermarket chicken not being perfect, and all, to be a little off-putting. Most people work and run home stopping on the way for some food, or whatever, shop once a week in a busy schedule, and it makes it seem you can;t put out good and even wonderful food that way. Makes you think you might as well not try. Maybe it could be expressed differently, like "you will probably use a supermarket chicken, but maybe once you could try a free range... etc, for a truly superb roast chicken, etc" 

Let us all know when your cookbook comes out. 
siduri


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Just another POV .... I don't find the recipe to be too long or detailed. I actually like recipes that are very detailed (I think BDL's could be even more detailed) and on the longish side. The more information the better, not only about the recipe, but about the ingredients, such as where to get them, variations, and the like). I ike to read recipes that are something like short stories. Paula Wolfert, Judy Rodgers write recipes like that, and really get me involved.

shel


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Why do you use more salt in the rub with the brine than the rub without the brine? Or are they reversed?

And that's a lot of rub for just using a pinch or two in the cavity. At least I didn't notice it being used anywhere else.

PHil


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Phil and Team,

Thanks for catching the oversights/typos. Corrections made. I really should have proofread it better before posting -- even as a first draft.

Siduri 

I see what you mean. I've been wrestling with how to tie techniques that require a lot of explanation to specific recipes. You're right. This is way too much in one place. "Brining," and adjusting the rub for brining need their own part. So to do carving and trussing. 

BDL


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## rpmcmurphy (Jan 8, 2008)

Soon as i get back to eating solid foods again (currently detoxing)....I'll of course give it a try BDL....as soon as I give your Caesar salad recipe a try! (we actually just got a nice wood salad bowl) 

I have to say the last casserole roasted chicken I did from Julia Childs was. a. maz. ing.....i thought i nailed it. even though I didn't brine, can't imagine what its going to taste like...


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## rpmcmurphy (Jan 8, 2008)

also, I don't mind the length at all, I love detailed......what I really like...and MOST recipes and books lack...is the "why" being answered....

most recipes say do this this and that.....and i think "why?, why?, why?"


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

If the recipe would only tenderize the 5 pound yard bird I have in the freezer.... friend grows them and occasionally one gets a tad big and chewy. Brining and a long slow cook in the BBQ pit helps but they are more of a stewing hen. The recipe sounds good and the length isn't bad, detail is good for beginning cooks who might want to try something new. One trick I do use is to keep the bird breast down in ice while the rest is warming slightly on the counter before going in the oven. Seems to slow the cooking in that part and keeps the breast meat tender.


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## dillbert (Jul 2, 2008)

here's another opinion:

brevity is good
length is not bad

more specifically, I like a leading "synopsis" that communicates in brevity the overall steps/method/technique/how to/ whatever.

a separate section with details, comments, experience, "watch out for this!" makes for Excellent Instruction & Education - hey, I'm too old for the way too many available mistakes to do "trial and error" - for me it's learn from others or eat not-so-good-stuff.....

the problem I encounter is "What was the oven temp again?" and who wants to plow through fifteen paragraphs to find it....

otoh, explaining "everything" in "every recipe" gonna get real tedious real fast. in this instance, for example, one may be inclined to brine. the short vs. long brine 'rationale, method, time & material' is very relevant. "Why Brine?" is prolly best put somewhere else, not repeated in every poultry recipe in the book....

and I can put you onto a really good editor if you need one.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Mary -- Can you get papaya nectar? If so, I've got a brine that ought to make that old hen happy to go for a nice smoke in the Klose. That said, why not a braise or a stew?

Phil, RPM and Dill -- I get what you're saying. I think I have a way to work everything out between your respective points of view and Siduri's too. I'll "blog" about the book's intended organization this weekend -- and if that doesn't resolve the problems, there will, no doubt, be advice. 

Dill -- Let it go a little longer, and I'll be looking for feedback, if not more, from an editor. So, don't lose that email address. 

In the meantime, you guys, all of you, have no idea how much I appreciate the help you're giving me. 

Thanks,
BDL


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## rpmcmurphy (Jan 8, 2008)

ya know..if you want to fly out...with a stack full of recipes, to "test" out live in my kicthen....to see if an "amateur" can pull them off......uhh....your more than welcome  





....heck i'd even pick up the airfare! (if ya don't mind a lumpy fouton)


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## tessa (Sep 9, 2007)

can you please answer my ???? why do you all brine your chooks :crazy:


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## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

For me it is mostly for moistness and adding a bit of flavor issue. When just doing a few pieces for my wife and I, it is usually the fattier, darker thighs, and I tend to not brine them. Whole chickens and breasts, especially skinless, boneless ones, are not well marbled with fat throughout the white meat. It tends to get a bit dry. I'm not a food scientist, but from what I understand brining provides sort of an osmosis pump. The salt in the brine initially draws water out of the meat, then the meat sucks it back in, carrying a bit of of whatever flavors you've put in the brine. 

It isn't strictly necessary, there are other things one can do like making sure you don't overcook it, the most important part.

mjb.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Teamfat is right. Brining increases the moisture content in the finished product, and that is why it's favored over a different type of marinade for very lean proteins like poultry, fish and some pork. 

Salt concentration and timing are important to avoid overbrining which may result in an over-salted and watery product. That's why I specify the amounts for the common types of salts used in US kitchens; and why I not only give an acceptable timing range but an optimal window as well.

Oddly, even people who don't like salt much can tolerate quite a bit more when it enters by brining. Still, IMO, it's important to reduce other forms of salt when seasoning. 

Among home cooks, brining seems to be most popular in the States with good cooks' Thanksgiving turkeys, and barbecue. Brining is very big on the circuit with chicken. Some competitors even brine ribs. And of course, it's the only way to do fish. It's also popular in "fine dining" with chicken. 

Try it and let us know what you think. God knows you don't lack for instructions,
BDL


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

That 5 pounder will probably land in the soup pot when the weather cools down. I will eat chicken from the Klose but it is far from my favorite, turkey is much better.


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

I concur. I just roast mine breast side down (I usually stuff them) and turn over for last 15 minutes to brown the breast. Keeps it very moist.
With Turkeys, I do them in an oven bag, breast side down then take it out for last 20 minutes to brown the skin. Works a charm.

Maybe why not many people brine Down Under is that the chooks are hanging upside down (being on the bottom of the world), hanging on for dear life, and that's why they stay juicy - all the moisture goes into the breasts :crazy::lol:

On a more serious note, I've heard a hint that rather than/or in addition to washing your fowl, rinse out the cavity with a little vinegar to lessen any bacteria. Whether its fact or fiction, not sure.


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Hi BDL 


I have a problem with my birds regarding the resting process. When I roast a chicken I use a very similar technique that you describe in your recipe. 

My problem is with that nice crisp skin on a roast chicken. It comes out of the oven nice and crisp. After I take it out of the oven I'll leave it to rest. I've tried to tightly tent the bird...I've tried a loose tent...I've tried placing it in the microwave (which just acts like an insulated box). 


No matter which method I try I end up with soft skin. It's still good...but it definitely isn't crisp (like when it came out of the oven). Letting the bird rest on the counter uncovered seems to work ok. I just can't help but think that I'm missing something simple.


thanks,
dan


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

I think you've answered your own question. Tenting and placing the bird in the microwave retains moisture in such a way that the skin looses crispness. Just let the bird rest uncovered ...


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Shel is right.

Let me tell you what's going on so you can control it better. There's a certain amount of water in and directly under the skin. The drier the skin, the crisper. The hotter you roast the chicken, the more you'll dry out the skin. The longer you roast the chicken, the same. However, chicken meat dries out very easily so it's important to balance time and temperature, and to use other techniques to keep the meat as moist as possible while drying the skin. 

When you wrap the chicken or hold it in a tight environment, water condenses on and in the skin, causing it to soften. Even tenting, if the weather is humid, can be a problem. There are even worse conditions than the micro or a tent. For instance, you might want to hold the chicken for a long time, wrapped and in an insulated container. 

Sometimes you have to live with it, but sometimes there's a remedy. Here's the "pro" fixit: Use a torch to crisp the skin just before serving. You don't need to blacken it. A couple of seconds of direct flame is all it takes. Don't buy a culinary torch from a kitchen supply. Buy a regular plumber's torch from a hardware store. Costs less, cheaper refills, works better, no drawbacks.

BDL


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Plus you can fix your leaky sink with it - great multitasking tool! :lol:


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Shel,

I'm surprised to hear you say so. Women multitask. We just look confused, then buy another tool. Tools, yum.

BDL


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## amazingrace (Jul 28, 2006)

*quote: When it is just my wife and I,*

As long as we are nitpicking...I think you meant to say "my wife and _*me*"._

What is the test for the correct grammar? Well, if you break the sentence down or mix it up, would you say "When it is just I" , or "When it is just I and my wife" ?, (surely not) But you could say "When it is just me", or "When it is just me and my wife".

We have heard things the wrong way for so long and so often, that when we hear them or try to say them correctly, they don't sound right.

Watch out for the grammar police...they are everywhere.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

I don't think so. The way I remember learning it, "me" comes second, so it would be _"When it is just my wife and me."_ You had it right in the first sentence of your post.

I also recall that the punctuation falls within, not outside, the quotation marks, although, in this particular case, since you're not directly quoting the written or spoken word, it may be acceptable to have the final punctuation, in this case the period, outside the quotation marks. Does anyone know for sure?


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## amazingrace (Jul 28, 2006)

The actual words in question are the pronouns I vs. me. How they are arranged is merely a matter of esthetics. It is perfectly acceptable to say "when it is just me and my wife", however it sounds better to say "when it is just my wife and me" but it is never correct to say "when it is my wife and I". I am never sure where to put those pesky punctuation marks.

Anyway, this is a cooking show, and I suspect most of the other members are more interested in how the chicken is prepared and presented than this sidetrail.


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## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

You're right, my mistake. Actually my wife can't cook chicken very well, me should have left her out of this discussion :lol:

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

mjb.


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## amazingrace (Jul 28, 2006)

I am chuckling over this exchange. My oldest grandson, who is nearly 4, is still finding his way with pronouns. Typical statements of his would be _"I want she to do it"_ , _"My hurt myself"_ or _"Him took my truck"._ We know that he will be leaving this phase very soon, but we are enjoying it for now.


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Thanks BDL and Shel!


I just couldn't help but think that there has to be a trick that everyone else knows about. 

I do believe I'll be resting my chicken naked from now on:lol: (with my mapp torch near by )


thanks!

dan


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

BDL,

I don't understand your post ... I must be missing something.


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## blueicus (Mar 16, 2005)

Let's just settle it and use the word we


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

Good grief - just tuned into this thread again..... and I thought this thread was about roast chicken hehehehe. Or did me thunk it were?  Or is that my thoughted it was? You're all mad


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