# Commercial kitchen for cookies?



## brooksms (Aug 9, 2018)

Long story short, I'm going from being a generous home baker to possibly acquiring a building including a 3000 ft restaurant. The plan is to renovate the space mainly for cookie production with a small storefront for pickup orders. I have never worked in a restaurant or bakery and only rented a commercial kitchen for a couple of days. What should I consider when designing the layout of the space? I know I will need a double convection oven for the cookies. Should I also install a normal oven in case I want to add cake/cupcakes to the menu later on? As far as mixers go, I have never tried increasing my recipe to make large batches. I've heard that can be complicated. Any thoughts there? The other option is to buy multiple 7-10 qt mixers and make multiple batches at once.


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## sgsvirgil (Mar 1, 2017)

I mean no offense and I am definitely not trying to rain on your dreams, but, I have the sense from what you have said that you may not fully understand what you are about to get into. There is a vast difference between cooking at home and cooking commercially. The fact that you are considering double ovens and regular ovens as your main baking solutions in your bakery scheme tells me you may not have a good grasp of this difference. If I have misunderstood what you have said, then, I apologize. 

Since you have never worked in a professional kitchen, I would strongly encourage you to take a job in a professional bakery before jumping into this personally and financially. 

Good luck.


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## E. Dennis van Rumund (Dec 2, 2017)

sgsvirgil said:


> I mean no offense and I am definitely not trying to rain on your dreams, but, I have the sense from what you have said that you may not fully understand what you are about to get into. There is a vast difference between cooking at home and cooking commercially. The fact that you are considering double ovens and regular ovens as your main baking solutions in your bakery scheme tells me you may not have a good grasp of this difference. If I have misunderstood what you have said, then, I apologize.
> 
> Since you have never worked in a professional kitchen, I would strongly encourage you to take a job in a professional bakery before jumping into this personally and financially.
> 
> Good luck.


GREAT ADVISE given. I was taught "One makes a thousand mistakes in a career, its best that its done early and NOT with your life savings".


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## brooksms (Aug 9, 2018)

sgsvirgil said:


> I mean no offense and I am definitely not trying to rain on your dreams, but, I have the sense from what you have said that you may not fully understand what you are about to get into. There is a vast difference between cooking at home and cooking commercially. The fact that you are considering double ovens and regular ovens as your main baking solutions in your bakery scheme tells me you may not have a good grasp of this difference. If I have misunderstood what you have said, then, I apologize.
> 
> Since you have never worked in a professional kitchen, I would strongly encourage you to take a job in a professional bakery before jumping into this personally and financially.
> 
> Good luck.


No offense here! I was certainly not planning on getting my own location this quickly. The commercial kitchen rental in my area is expensive, only available late evenings and the oven isn't great. I have absolutely zero experience with cooking commercially so you're absolutely right there! This is why I'm asking. It will be cheaper to use my own space rather than renting per hour. Without going into detail, this venture will not be funded from my own savings and I will not be in debt. All I know is that there is a lot of local interest and I need to figure it out quickly. I have had four offers within the past day to display at local events and am trying to make it work. Any suggestions/insight you have are appreciated! As I said, I definitely don't know.


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## Seoul Food (Sep 17, 2018)

Putting aside any issues with transitioning from home baking to commercial the things I would consider would be the flow of the kitchen area and into the storefront if you are going that route. 3000 square feet is a lot of space and you need to decide how much of that will be devoted to the store area along with any seating, bathrooms, merchandise displays, etc. Then how much will be allocated for the kitchen which would depend on how much production you expect to be doing, staffing, equipment needs for particular items, coolers, product receiving areas, office, etc. And while it may seem cheaper to own a space rather then rent, you have to remember you then become the responsible party for buying everything from paper goods to kitchen equipment and the first time a oven breaks or a cooler goes down and you have to shell out that cash to get it fixed as fast as you can you may start to see a lot of hidden costs. If you don't have a large customer base as foot traffic right now maybe you could start by splitting the space up and just using part as a kitchen and renting out the additional space for now. Good luck and hope this helped.


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## azenjoys (Jun 28, 2017)

brooksms said:


> All I know is that there is a lot of local interest and I need to figure it out quickly. I have had four offers within the past day to display at local events and am trying to make it work.


Good ideas keep. If it's going to work in the long-term, it will work as well tomorrow as it does today. You don't need to rush into things.

Do those offers to display at local events involve getting paid or are they just opportunities to spend more money on giving away samples that don't lead to sales?



brooksms said:


> Without going into detail, this venture will not be funded from my own savings and I will not be in debt.


But someone will, right? Potentially someone who you want to have as a long-term colleague/contact/investor?


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## brooksms (Aug 9, 2018)

azenjoys said:


> Good ideas keep. If it's going to work in the long-term, it will work as well tomorrow as it does today. You don't need to rush into things.
> 
> Do those offers to display at local events involve getting paid or are they just opportunities to spend more money on giving away samples that don't lead to sales?
> 
> But someone will, right? Potentially someone who you want to have as a long-term colleague/contact/investor?


You're right! I just worry about people losing interest. The cost to sell at the events is very low and brings a large crowd. I'm getting messages asking if I ship, people wanting to order for holiday gifts etc. I have a lot to think about and wish there were a simple answer.


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## halb (May 25, 2015)

Better that they lose interest now than after you (or someone) has invested a lot of money into it.


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## sgsvirgil (Mar 1, 2017)

brooksms said:


> No offense here! I was certainly not planning on getting my own location this quickly. The commercial kitchen rental in my area is expensive, only available late evenings and the oven isn't great. I have absolutely zero experience with cooking commercially so you're absolutely right there! This is why I'm asking. It will be cheaper to use my own space rather than renting per hour. Without going into detail, this venture will not be funded from my own savings and I will not be in debt. All I know is that there is a lot of local interest and I need to figure it out quickly. I have had four offers within the past day to display at local events and am trying to make it work. Any suggestions/insight you have are appreciated! As I said, I definitely don't know.


If you have generated that sort of interest, it may be worth your while to hire or partner with an experienced pastry chef. That way, you can learn and grow your business opportunities at the same time without the time it takes to learn ether the business or the logistics causing you to miss opportunities. 

Good luck!


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## azenjoys (Jun 28, 2017)

When you say "It will be cheaper to use my own space rather than renting per hour" are you considering the cost of the labor that goes into managing/maintaining/licensing the space?

Just talk to the owner of the space you're renting now and drop the $200 it will take to have their oven professionally serviced or look for a better space. Shared spaces with membership options rather than hourly rates are typically way way way more economical (at least where I live). Have you considered all the possible options for where to rent? Churches/synagogues, schools, restaurant kitchen from 3am - 7am.


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## halb (May 25, 2015)

Can you explain why there is "a lot of local interest"? What is it about your product or you that is causing it? This is one of the main factors you need to define before starting a business. It could be that home baked or my mother's family recipe is attracting attention. So once you start mass producing in a commercial kitchen and packaging with "Nutrition Facts" and a UPC barcode it kind of loses it's charm.

Another point is that, from your other posts, it looks like you don't even have your product down to a science now, and you admit you have zero experience with commercial equipment. How are you going to be able to hit the ground running and produce a uniform product. What kind of volume are you talking about? 

It seems all you have going for you is an interest in your product and someone willing to cash in on it by fronting you startup money. Sorry, but I think that person is overestimating your abilities.


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## brooksms (Aug 9, 2018)

.



halb said:


> Can you explain why there is "a lot of local interest"? What is it about your product or you that is causing it? This is one of the main factors you need to define before starting a business. It could be that home baked or my mother's family recipe is attracting attention. So once you start mass producing in a commercial kitchen and packaging with "Nutrition Facts" and a UPC barcode it kind of loses it's charm.
> 
> Another point is that, from your other posts, it looks like you don't even have your product down to a science now, and you admit you have zero experience with commercial equipment. How are you going to be able to hit the ground running and produce a uniform product. What kind of volume are you talking about?
> 
> It seems all you have going for you is an interest in your product and someone willing to cash in on it by fronting you startup money. Sorry, but I think that person is overestimating your abilities.


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## brooksms (Aug 9, 2018)

halb said:


> Can you explain why there is "a lot of local interest"? What is it about your product or you that is causing it? This is one of the main factors you need to define before starting a business. It could be that home baked or my mother's family recipe is attracting attention. So once you start mass producing in a commercial kitchen and packaging with "Nutrition Facts" and a UPC barcode it kind of loses it's charm.
> 
> Another point is that, from your other posts, it looks like you don't even have your product down to a science now, and you admit you have zero experience with commercial equipment. How are you going to be able to hit the ground running and produce a uniform product. What kind of volume are you talking about?
> 
> It seems all you have going for you is an interest in your product and someone willing to cash in on it by fronting you startup money. Sorry, but I think that person is overestimating your abilities.


Maybe commercial was the wrong term? I'm not trying to get into Whole Foods. I will be taking custom orders locally and online, hopefully sell in nearby coffee shops and markets, weekend events etc. I'm not sure I'll ever be fully satisfied and confident with the product. I'm constantly trying various changes. However, months after my original post, I've come up with something people enjoy. If I've learned anything, it's that I can obsess about tiny details all day long and most people wouldn't see the difference. I know I'm capable of producing these in an 8-10 shelf convection oven. We're not talking thousands of cookies per day. The situation isn't what I expected or intended at all, especially not this quickly. I've been asked to do it though and want to go in with as much knowledge as I can gather. I certainly wish I were professionally trained before diving in but that isn't happening.


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## halb (May 25, 2015)

> Maybe commercial was the wrong term? I'm not trying to get into Whole Foods. I will be taking custom orders locally and online, hopefully sell in nearby coffee shops and markets, weekend events etc.


I understand that but even if you baked a sheet of cookies in your home kitchen it's a commercial enterprise once you sell to the public. But that's not the question here.

But you still haven't answered my question: what is it about your product that is causing all the attention? What is different about it that customers can't get from a local bakery that bakes their own products?

Too often, operations like this are a flash in the pan because if all you have is a lot of interest that can change over night. Customers are fickle and get easily bored.


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## brooksms (Aug 9, 2018)

halb said:


> I understand that but even if you baked a sheet of cookies in your home kitchen it's a commercial enterprise once you sell to the public. But that's not the question here.
> 
> But you still haven't answered my question: what is it about your product that is causing all the attention? What is different about it that customers can't get from a local bakery that bakes their own products?
> 
> Too often, operations like this are a flash in the pan because if all you have is a lot of interest that can change over night. Customers are fickle and get easily bored.


I don't want to be specific but the cookies are unique compared to everything sold in the area. There aren't any decent bakeries nearby. I understand that isn't enough to keep the momentum going! Continual interest is absolutely a concern and will be addressed.


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## sgsvirgil (Mar 1, 2017)

brooksms said:


> I don't want to be specific but the cookies are unique compared to everything sold in the area. There aren't any decent bakeries nearby. I understand that isn't enough to keep the momentum going! Continual interest is absolutely a concern and will be addressed.


You have a very simple problem: you have a product that has generated some interest because of its quality and because, as you put it, there are no decent bakeries nearby. But, you don't have the knowledge or experience to move forward in your plans. That gives you two options and two options only:

1. Take the leap of faith and open your bakery. However, I think any professional chef will agree that your odds of succeeding given your level of experience are very low, if not impossible.
-or-
2. Gather the knowledge necessary so you are at least competent in terms of the obstacles and hurdles that you will have to negotiate in order to give your venture the chance that it deserves. There are a few ways you can make that happen:
- Like I said previously, you can partner with professional baker and use their knowledge and experience.
But, you will have to pay them well and probably have to give them some sort of ownership interest.
- Work in a professional bakery or an establishment that specializes in the product you want to produce. That will
give you the opportunity to see how everything works from the inside. The drawback is that it will take time.
- Have your product professionally tested and hire a manufacturing company to handle all of the production. 
That will not give you that "home made" charm that you currently have,. But, its an option. 
- Continue working out of your own kitchen. However, sooner or later, you will draw the sort of attention that you
do not want. That could easily create a very expensive legal issue.

If you are that eager to push forward, choice #1 is your best bet. If you are not in a hurry, take the time and learn everything you can before you put any plan into motion.

The good news is that none of this is rocket surgery so learning it should be easy. The bad news is there is a lot to learn.

Good luck.


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## halb (May 25, 2015)

brooksms said:


> Without going into detail, this venture will not be funded from my own savings and I will not be in debt.





brooksms said:


> I don't want to be specific but the cookies are unique compared to everything sold in the area.


You certainly are secretive. How about a business plan and how you expect to pull this off. A 3000 sq ft building is no small operation.


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## brooksms (Aug 9, 2018)

sgsvirgil said:


> You have a very simple problem: you have a product that has generated some interest because of its quality and because, as you put it, there are no decent bakeries nearby. But, you don't have the knowledge or experience to move forward in your plans. That gives you two options and two options only:
> 
> 1. Take the leap of faith and open your bakery. However, I think any professional chef will agree that your odds of succeeding given your level of experience are very low, if not impossible.
> -or-
> ...


Thank you for the advice! The building is a great property investment regardless of my bakery success. It just happens to already have the main fixtures needed for this type of business. There is more to the plan than someone banking on my cookies being good lol. Assuming everything goes through as expected, there is no debate whether this is happening or not. I am aware it doesn't sound like a genius idea but I have to do my best with what I'm being given. I'm just trying to source information so I don't buy the wrong equipment for the job. I will be visiting a couple of places to get insight from the owners. In the mean time I was hoping someone here might know what to consider workflow-wise, ingredient sourcing advice etc. There are very few locals to ask.


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## sgsvirgil (Mar 1, 2017)

Well, you sound fairly determined to make this happen come hell or high water. That could be a good thing or it can be a curse. Time will tell. 

As for workflow, I assume you mean what you will be doing from the time you start until the time you finish. That depends on your orders and customer base. But, you can bank on starting at 4am and not getting done until 18 hours later or more. Rinse and repeat, even on Sundays. 

You will be cleaning, mixing, measuring, baking, filling, emptying, frosting, icing, shaping, decorating, sweeping, mopping, writing, typing, organizing, prepping, rinsing, adding, subtracting, cursing, ordering, carrying, unloading, crying, laughing, yelling, rushing, pushing, hiring, firing, calling, answering, paying, pulling, driving, parking, running and rushing all day, every day. You will have no weekends. You will have no holidays. You will have little to no time for children or family. All of your waking moments will be at the bakery interrupted by at most 4, maybe, 6 hours spent at home passed out.

That will be your work flow. Welcome to the life. 

Everything else, you will learn as you go.

Good luck! 

P.S.

I like those big, soft chocolate chip cookies.


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## granola girl (Mar 8, 2015)

Your story brings a lot of dejavoo moments to me. I am also not professionally trained. I'm a CFO in Los Angeles County. I have a class B. I had 24 wholesale accounts for my granola. I decided to buy a very tiny bakery to be able to produce at the volume I needed and to be able to ship my products from the brick n mortar bakery. I thought I could do it all. I was determined to make it work. Baking in the house is completely different from baking in a retail bakery. I only had 2 countertop kitchen aid mixers and a small convection commercial 5 shelf full sheet tray oven. I was working much harder and not able to be home for those two years, (the lease). The learning curb is huge on going from baking at home to baking as a retail bakery full time. The rent is not the only expense. I don't know where you are, but in LA county the unsecure property tax is one that people never told me about. The insurance is a lot more, the sales tax on hot items and items eaten on site. But the biggest factor for me not wishing to go back into retail is my daughter saying she hated the bakery because I was always tired, stressed and not home. She never expressed that while I operated it. I closed the bakery last Oct due to the landlord more than doubling rent. My daughter and I are very close again. Especially, cz it is only the two of us at home. She enjoyed having me back home. I still need a granola factory. But this time, the retail side of the bakery will be operated by someone else. I learned the hard way. Just be sure you can afford to float yourself, not pay yourself, and take a good hard look at what other things will feel the ripple effect. Might I suggest a co-packer? (I know of one) Or as mentioned by someone else, who seems wiser, bring in a partner who can lead the way. That is what I'm looking for this time around in Altadena. I'm not trying to rain on your parade. It sounds like you found a good building. I just advise you to go in fully aware. Good luck to you.


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## CBake03 (Oct 12, 2018)

I did what you did. And I have to tell you I WISH MORE THAN ANYTHING I stayed home. We used all our own money so we did it "debt free". There is SO MUCH on the commercial side you cant even begin to fathom. I've been in the cookie game for 7 years and have large accounts. I do cookies for NFL teams, Home builders, Fortune 500 companies, etc. My building is only 1,900 SQFT and in an industrial park (not open to the public) and as much as I LOVE what I do. Im tired. Im tired of it already. I am being forced to expand my menu to accommodate the cost of staying open. And just because something seems like it will be a quick move in like this building it wont be. The city/health department is a finicky beast. Just because it was approved for the previous tenant doesn't mean it will be approved for you. Our plumbing alone for the grease trap and etc was a little over $9k. Dont even get me started on the vent hood price. Cookies are how I make money and I made GOOD money at home. I had the same problems you occurred. wanting to sell in stores, shipping, etc. And now I just wish I kept it at home. Decorated cookies are a labor intensive. No matter how you look at it. There are long days and nights. I still work long into the night but instead of being in my comfy home im up here. Think of how many cookies you have to sell to make the rent payment on a 3,000 SQFT building. You will be forced to do that every month. not including Insurance, Machinery you are financing, Electric bills ( Mine are around $465 a month) Dumpster bill, phone bill, Ingredients, packaging, etc. I literally take home NO MONEY every month. Im counting down the months until i can get out of the lease. You seem determined and I was too, But Put the pen to paper and do the math first. I did and it wasn't realistic and now im paying the price. As far as ovens I have 2 blodgett 3 phase electric ovens. They do just fine and i can cook around 300 cookies in about 12 mins. I have 2 - 20qt mixers and making bigger batches wasnt an issue at all! It was a lot smoother than I thought.


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## brooksms (Aug 9, 2018)

CBake03 said:


> I did what you did. And I have to tell you I WISH MORE THAN ANYTHING I stayed home. We used all our own money so we did it "debt free". There is SO MUCH on the commercial side you cant even begin to fathom. I've been in the cookie game for 7 years and have large accounts. I do cookies for NFL teams, Home builders, Fortune 500 companies, etc. My building is only 1,900 SQFT and in an industrial park (not open to the public) and as much as I LOVE what I do. Im tired. Im tired of it already. I am being forced to expand my menu to accommodate the cost of staying open. And just because something seems like it will be a quick move in like this building it wont be. The city/health department is a finicky beast. Just because it was approved for the previous tenant doesn't mean it will be approved for you. Our plumbing alone for the grease trap and etc was a little over $9k. Dont even get me started on the vent hood price. Cookies are how I make money and I made GOOD money at home. I had the same problems you occurred. wanting to sell in stores, shipping, etc. And now I just wish I kept it at home. Decorated cookies are a labor intensive. No matter how you look at it. There are long days and nights. I still work long into the night but instead of being in my comfy home im up here. Think of how many cookies you have to sell to make the rent payment on a 3,000 SQFT building. You will be forced to do that every month. not including Insurance, Machinery you are financing, Electric bills ( Mine are around $465 a month) Dumpster bill, phone bill, Ingredients, packaging, etc. I literally take home NO MONEY every month. Im counting down the months until i can get out of the lease. You seem determined and I was too, But Put the pen to paper and do the math first. I did and it wasn't realistic and now im paying the price. As far as ovens I have 2 blodgett 3 phase electric ovens. They do just fine and i can cook around 300 cookies in about 12 mins. I have 2 - 20qt mixers and making bigger batches wasnt an issue at all! It was a lot smoother than I thought.


Thank you & the previous comments for your insight! Luckily selling enough to make rent isn't a concern. There are still other expenses of course but risk is very minimal in my situation. Again, it's a long story but to be honest I likely would be doing everything from home if I could. It's not an option unfortunately! Whether your numbers were realistic or not, I think the attempt is commendable. I'd rather try and fail than sit around wondering what could've been, you know? I wish I had industry experience beforehand but the timing didn't work out that way. My main concerns are making a consistent quality product while being time efficient and knowing how many orders I can take on at once. It's good to know you didn't have issues with making larger batches! I may test one at a nearby commercial kitchen to see what happens before shopping. There are also a ton of small tidbits I wish I knew off hand such as the best way to store bulk brown sugar etc. These details are common knowledge for those in the industry but the information doesn't seem to be published to learn otherwise. It's tough!


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## azenjoys (Jun 28, 2017)

For what it's worth, King Arthur hosts a 4 day class that might be a good jumping off point for you.. here's the description..

*Setting Up A Successful Bakery 4-day class with Jeffrey Hamelman*
Norwich, Vermont

If you've always dreamed of opening a small bakery, this revamped class will help. Learn all aspects of beginning an artisan operation, from what equipment to buy to how to write a business plan. Students will have the opportunity to mix and bake products to understand the choices involved in product and equipment selection, costing and market assessment. Specific topics include: bakery layout, equipment selection, product selection, cost control, market assessment, business plans, and management plans. We've updated the class to add an extra day with an increased focus on business planning and bakery layout. _Lunch included daily._

October 29-November 1, 2018, 9 am - 5 pm daily

April 29 - May 2, 9 am - 5 pm daily


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## jcakes (Feb 18, 2007)

Taking that class listed above is going to be your quickest way to gain the knowledge you want. The only other suggestion I would have is to visit a restaurant supply house that also does kitchen projects - you'll pay them to design your kitchen and they will suggest equipment you have to have (e.g. grease trap, dish sink, oven, refrigeration, ventilation, fire suppression, etc) which is specific to the town you are operating in; equipment that's nice to have (dishwasher but it has to be vented) and equipment you would lust after (revolving rack oven). what kind of oven you get has a lot to do with what you are making. Cookies are ok in a convection oven; and while you can bake cakes/cupcakes in a convection oven the quality of the bake is better in a conventional oven. Don't forget about transportation - will you need a refrigerated van?

We can all type lengthy messages but it won't help you because it's just words on a page. What I learned my first year in business was astronomical; I'd never worked in a commercial bakery before (I spent time in my friend's bakery so I had an idea of layout and equipment) but I shared space for the first 14 years I was in business; I have my own space now but am still renting. I do not want to own a building, I don't need the additional hassle of building maintenance on top of running a business.

If there are no bakeries near you, go check out the supermarket bakery and see if they'll give you a tour (probably not because of insurance liability if you slip). The layout will be different depending on where your ventilation goes, where the cooler goes (because of roof access for the condenser unit) - get a pro to help you design the space. See what your town's health dept requires if there is a change in ownership of the building/business. The process could take a year (it did for me. I found my current space in March, signed a lease in Sept and moved in in January once construction was finished. Mind you, I had an architect working on designing the space since June when it was clear that the landlord and I were on the same page about renting the space.

Good luck. The road ahead is long and arduous; be prepared.


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## granola girl (Mar 8, 2015)

jcakes said:


> The only other suggestion I would have is to visit a restaurant supply house that also does kitchen projects - you'll pay them to design your kitchen and they will suggest equipment you have to have (e.g. grease trap, dish sink, oven, refrigeration, ventilation, fire suppression, etc) which is specific to the town you are operating in; equipment that's nice to have (dishwasher but it has to be vented) and equipment you would lust after (revolving rack oven).
> 
> I was wondering what restaurant supply house offers kitchen projects? I need to design a commercial kitchen. But I've only worked in a commercial bakery. I could use some help to make sure I get it right. Do you think Restaurant Depot offers this? I've been meaning to go over there to ask. Thanks


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## jcakes (Feb 18, 2007)

Based on personal experience with my local Restaurant Depot, I would not trust them to design a kitchen. Their equipment staff might be knowledgeable about it or they might be new and just learning. Here in MA, there's a place called United Restaurant that sells everything you need for a commercial kitchen and you can hire them to design your kitchen or take a quick look at your plan/blueprint and see if there's anything you're missing. I would look for a place like that before RD. There might also be a used equipment dealer who offers a design consultation program; just find out what kind of experience they have. I used such a place to replace my cooler panels and when I told them the condenser/compressor size they still didn't take that into consideration and now I have a cooler that's too small for that. Eventually I will replace it but I'm still really annoyed that they didn't take that into consideration when I told them to.

Sometimes your design is going to get hijacked by the layout of the building or space you're going into: as in; I had to put my ovens/hood/fire suppression at the back corner of the space because that's where the roof access was going to be easiest (they already had AC units for the rest of the tenants up there); my walk in cooler ended up on the opposite wall from where I wanted it because I had to put in a second hand sink and it was easier/cheaper to do it along the wall with the rest of the plumbing from the dish sinks/mop sink. I ended up burying the 100# grease trap (size required by the town) in the floor of the janitor's closet so I could have more floor space.

You probably already know more than you think, to be honest. Look at your work flow - where do you spend most of your time walking to/from? Do you need your packaging to be right near your production? How much are you doing in dishes (do you need an automatic dishwasher? would it save you time and the expense of another employee? Another employee when not doing dishes can be doing other things....) What does it look like to get deliveries? Easy access or do they have to navigate stairs? PM if you want to chat details


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## granola girl (Mar 8, 2015)

jcakes said:


> Based on personal experience with my local Restaurant Depot, I would not trust them to design a kitchen. Their equipment staff might be knowledgeable about it or they might be new and just learning. Here in MA, there's a place called United Restaurant that sells everything you need for a commercial kitchen and you can hire them to design your kitchen or take a quick look at your plan/blueprint and see if there's anything you're missing. I would look for a place like that before RD. There might also be a used equipment dealer who offers a design consultation program; just find out what kind of experience they have. I used such a place to replace my cooler panels and when I told them the condenser/compressor size they still didn't take that into consideration and now I have a cooler that's too small for that. Eventually I will replace it but I'm still really annoyed that they didn't take that into consideration when I told them to.
> 
> Sometimes your design is going to get hijacked by the layout of the building or space you're going into: as in; I had to put my ovens/hood/fire suppression at the back corner of the space because that's where the roof access was going to be easiest (they already had AC units for the rest of the tenants up there); my walk in cooler ended up on the opposite wall from where I wanted it because I had to put in a second hand sink and it was easier/cheaper to do it along the wall with the rest of the plumbing from the dish sinks/mop sink. I ended up burying the 100# grease trap (size required by the town) in the floor of the janitor's closet so I could have more floor space.
> 
> You probably already know more than you think, to be honest. Look at your work flow - where do you spend most of your time walking to/from? Do you need your packaging to be right near your production? How much are you doing in dishes (do you need an automatic dishwasher? would it save you time and the expense of another employee? Another employee when not doing dishes can be doing other things....) What does it look like to get deliveries? Easy access or do they have to navigate stairs? PM if you want to chat details


Thanks a bunch for your helpful insights. I will be having an inspection of the building on Wednesday. I think I will bring in a kitchen draftsman to give me his ideas instead of RD. I agree. Somethings are better left to professionals. Grease trap under the sink would be cheaper, I wonder if that will be adequate since there is no deep frying going on. Will have to figure out the hood fire suppression placement. I'll take you up on the PM once the plans are farther along. TIA


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## jcakes (Feb 18, 2007)

You need a grease trap regardless; the size will be mandated by the town you're operating in. The trap captures the fat generated by your food waste (you'd be suprized how much grease/fat is in your cookie dough) and you should have it pumped out every three months during the first year. You might be able to get away with doing it every four or five months but some towns require it every three months. And for fire suppression - I don't saute or fry anything - but I have a gas range and that means I *COULD* possibly saute something and if the splattering fat catches fire..... so it's the potential that might force you to have a fire suppression system. Let us know what happens!


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