# looking for a change , but need advice



## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

Ok Guys and possibly gals, I've been chefing for a short 6 years now , and for the majority of my time , been using European knives,ie wustof, mainly, however I'm looking for a new knife as a workhorse, around 210-240mm traditional Japanese made what ever that means , nothing like global , or shun as they seem to be overpriced and terrible , (my own oppinion , awaiting hate mail for disliking shun) I want a knife than can hold an edge and sharpens easily. I'm using stones to sharpen free hand , and a steel in work to touch up. 

Any and all advice is appreciated and as for my budget , well, I havnt really got one as long as it isn't ridiculously priced , looking to spend around £100-180. Additionally I love the domascus look on jap knives so keep that in mind. 
Have a nice day thank you for being patient and reading.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Are you open to carbon steel or stainless only?  How about stainless clad carbon (only the edge is reactive)?  Left handed right handed?  You're in the UK?


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

I'm open to all types of steel. As its all learning curve I won't shy away fr any types of steel. As I want my own oppinion , right handed , and yes in the UK so it will be a bit harder for me to import, but I have no problem doing so.
Never heard of stainless clad carbon, what's the difference to other steels mentioned? It's only been the past year or so I've started to put intrest into all the properties of a knife so take it easy on me


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

The core steel is carbon, so it's easy to sharpen. However the sides are covered in a stainless layer. Only the edge shows the core steel. Think of it like sharpening a pencil, where the lead is the core steel. It has the benefits of being easy to sharpen, but you don't have to worry as much about reactivity. I treat all my knives the same though. As soon as I'm done cutting, I wipe and dry. It's a different way of working, but once you get it, you get it.

I would recommend you this one http://www.cheftalk.com/t/86119/itinomonn-wa-kasumi-240 but I didn't pay VAT over here in the states, so it's not as good a deal. Atatax got the same one if you want to wait for his review. Full Sack has the 270mm from the same.

Other than JNS, look through http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/ to see if anything strikes your fancy. $7 worldwide shipping direct from Japan.

If you can't buy local you have the possibility of being hit by VAT and import duties. Another option is to buy used. kitchenknifeforums.com has an active trading forum and sometimes I kick myself when I see UK only sales.


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

That is a beautiful knife indeed, I may wait for the review , as the wustof still does it's job, as for buying pre owned knives, I'm a little cautious , if rather buy new , as I love the intial New knife feel! 

Other than that knife youve recommended , what are you oppinions on Fujiwara and moronic knives as I've heard people reccomending them , but enough people objecting to make me think twice, after all , I believe knives are personall, however I don't want to spend the money then not have a feel for the knife!


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

pricey said:


> ... or shun as they seem to be overpriced and terrible , (my own oppinion , awaiting hate mail for disliking shun) ...


You won't find too much hate mail on this forum regarding your disinterest in Shun knives. But even the late, great Saint BDL would say that your comment about them being "terrible" is inaccurate. They may not be your cup o'tea, and they may not meet your needs... but calling them "terrible" is just ignorant.

Thus ends the only "hate mail" you might receive. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/talker.gif

Good luck finding the knife of your dreams!


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

Fair comment , I won't argue it does come accross ignorant, I have used them in the past , my head chef uses them and swears by them and personally just nothing special to me, so as I leave familiar waters of knives from Europe I'm now taking the plunge! Who knows , this purchase may end up being a shun. Only time will tell!


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

Ok then , I've seen a knife I like the look of, it's expensive , but a knife is like your baby after all , so I intend on looking after it and keeping it for well for ever just because of how beautiful the knife looks, the review the website gives is a good one, but that could just be to sell it , so ill let you guys who know every thing there is or most about knives , so experts , here's the link:
http://www.chefsarmoury.com/kitchen...maboroshi-no-meito-210mm-gyuto/prod_1554.html

Hit me!


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

The Maboroshi line in particular has good reviews in terms of cutting performance. It tapers a lot so the spine at the heel is thicker and at the tip it is very thin. Be aware so you use the tip for things that require thinness. The profile looks very flat if you like that sort of thing. White steel is the easiest to sharpen which is good if you're doing the sharpening yourself. If this is what you're intent on, it is cheaper to buy direct from the maker

http://www.teruyasu.net/products/detail_4.html


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

The pricing is so weird from this maker.  23000 yen for 210mm then 43000 yen for 240mm.  Almost 2x increase for 3 cm!


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

Well you have got a point there, looking at it it's a interesting knife I won't say I'm getting it as why rush there's a lot of options out there. This is one of many, however I have heard of fujiwara being one of the finer makers from Japan , but having never used there knives , I can't comment


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

I'm hearing today about these "laser knives" more specifically Richmond Laser AS Gyuto 210mm Maple I have seen on the cktg website , wüst makes These Type of knives so reliable , I am a little worried that the blades may shatter being so thin or being prone to chip on stones during the sharpening process? Still another knife I'm considering , I hear a lot of compliments on Richmond's so having never used them myself , some information on the group would be appreciated.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Richmond Laser is thin behind the edge, but the rest of it going up to the spine isn't thin enough that I would call it a laser. It's not even a great deal anymore (they used to be cheaper) considering other options in the price range. Any knife that is very thin behind the edge is going to be more prone to chipping. A price you pay for the performance. Being very thin, it will slide through vegetables easy. On the other hand, if you cut something like thinly sliced potato, it can stick on you.

To maximize edge retention and minimize chipping:

- End grain wood board (you won't use one in pro kitchen) or rubber like Hi-Soft brand etc. Stay away from glass, bamboo (which is mostly hard glue)

- Don't cut chicken bones with it, use your wusthof for that

- Tip down pivoting/ rock chopping can chip it. Push cut or slice/pull cut

- Put on a microbevel 




For lasers consider this one which IMO is the best deal on 'laser' knives right now http://www.cheftalk.com/t/87228/need-some-convincing#post_517444


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

Yeah I'm not too sure about lasers, I'm using plastic boards in work , and using a stone (fine) at beggining and the end of shift, so I keep my edges well, the knife atm I've fell in love with is a fujiwara 210mm Gyuto

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/funa21gyocha.html


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

But as I said I don't want a laser knife as I feel cautious about how likely they are to chipping, especially with all the hard veg I can be cutting , this fujiwara has nice reviews and looks beautiful, not overly expensive and is made with a white steel core? Which is meant to maintain a edge and be somewhat easy to maintain? Correct me if I'm wrong , I'm still learning all the little details so many of us chefs choose to turn a blind eye too!


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## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

pricey said:


> Yeah I'm not too sure about lasers, I'm using plastic boards in work , and using a stone (fine) at beggining and the end of shift, so I keep my edges well, the knife atm I've fell in love with is a fujiwara 210mm Gyuto
> 
> http://www.chefknivestogo.com/funa21gyocha.html


If you like the pear skin (nashiji) finishing, you may also consider this Tanaka Ginsanko (Stainless Steel core) 240mm. for U$170.





  








tanaka-ginsan-gyuto-240mm-27.png




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http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tagigy24.html

It may not be in the same league as the Fujiwara in terms of hardness and handle quality, but gets the job done.

As you see, i recommend you to buy the 240mm. I own the same Tanaka knife in 210mm. -i love it- but always regret not buying the 240mm.


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

Interesting choice, pros and cons in your own oppinion , I havnt seen or used that brand before , so I will take it into consideration.


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## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

pros:

almost half the price of a similar 240mm. Fujiwara which lists for U$315.
stainless steel core. No maintenance problems.
similar exterior finishing.
cons:

the core is not carbon steel. Not a paradox, but many people will prefer carbon steel.
hardness 62 HRC instead of 64 HRC, could mean better edge retention (and also chipping issues if misused).
Fujiwara being thicker may have a better grind in terms of food release.
handle quality. The Tanaka handle is pretty basic D shape.
Considering all this, me personally would not pay U$145 more for the Fujiwara, but remember i only have first hand experience with the Tanaka, which, by the way, is a very well known brand.

In any case, please go for the 240mm.


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

Noted , and will think about it, the money I'm spending , it isn't a huge deal as my knives normally will last me for years as I look after them and sharpen them briefly on stones every other day with stropping after work and before. 
Thank you for your post and will take that knife into consideration


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

The way ordo worded it the OP might be confused, so just to make sure all is straight -

The Fujiwara is white#1 carbon steel hardened just about to the max.  It will take a keener and steeper edge than the Tanaka Gin, and get there easier.  It will also be more prone to chipping, something the Tanaka likely does not do at all in normal use.  Hard to say which one has better edge retention just looking at them on paper.

I'd say that unless you want the max in terms of sharp and are willing to make the sacrifices for it, you'll probably want to go with something like the Tanaka.

If I were a pro looking for a good knife here I would go something like the Akifusa/Ikea/Artisan.  I have another version of these knives sold here in the States as the Geshin Kagero and the SRS-15 PM steel takes an edge at least as well as ginsan and holds it forever.  Not at all chippy either.

Rick


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## cavedweller (Oct 2, 2015)

It might be worth having a word with Maksim at http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/

Based on (some of) your requirements, I'd give this a serious look: http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-kurouchi-240mm-wa-gyuto/

High quality carbon steel with good grinds, takes a great edge and holds it for a good while. It's not damascus, but for the money I really rate it.


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

Ok thanks for summing that up, I'm assuming the Ikea artisian and akifusa are all in their own league , havnt used them neither , I'm a little tight on suppliers here in UK, so I'm struggling finding some knives, I know of Japanese knife imports , and cktg , but they don't have a huge variety , and the more I read about some knives the more indecisive I become. 
Are there any other companies that will ship to UK, that I'm not aware of?


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

Ok so havnt stopped looking through numerous knifed , then I popped into a shop near by me, they couldn't get a hold of a few knifes however I seen a knife in there back cabinet, and its beautiful , just beautiful , the yaxell super gou chefs knife , has any one ever heard of these , it's the first time I've come accross one. Any info would be amazing and any reviews even better, don't forget I work in a busy rosette kitchen , so I need great delicate work but I need it to be able to be my work horse at times also, so if you have any reviews on it , I'll be happy!


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

Also pros and cons comparison on white carbon steel to sg2 that's been sprayed with carbide powder?


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

SG2 sprayed with carbide powder?


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

That's just how the description talks about the yaxel ill post a link here
https://www.steamer.co.uk/m/choppin...oductid=6246&gclid=CPfyr92jvsgCFRJmGwodO9YKuA


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

It's just marketing talk. I'll translate: SG2 knife clad in stainless damascus

Yes, powdered steel has better edge retention. It is harder, and also chippier. As a first japanese knife, not sure I'd recommend one. You will make mistakes in maintenance, sharpening ,etc.

For the price, I'd rather get a tanaka R2 http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-210mm-gyuto-r2-ironwood/

R2 and SG2 are the same AFAIK


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Ya what millions said.  Also,the Takamura Migaki is a non-damascus R2 knife that is a lot less money and a proven performer.  

But these are not tough knives as already pointed out.  White #1 is not known for toughness either.

For powdered steel SRS15 is relatively tough.  Compared to R2 it gives up some on sharpness, but has better edge retention.

Rick


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

Ok so I think I'll take your advice Rick, and every one else who's inputted here , thank you very much, I'll be ordering the takamura tonight and working with that for a while and see what I think also my sharpening isn't perfect so I aggree with the fact I could risk destroying a perfectly good knife! Thanks for your help guys !


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

Maybe , I'm pretty decent , so I don't see it as a huge problem , I have heard when you send knifed out there's been cases were a lot of the edge was ground away, worrying thought!


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## galley swiller (May 29, 2013)

Benuser's suggestion about sending it to a good sharpener for a first sharpening has merit, but also a basic flaw - which you outlined.

The problem is that how do you find a decent quality sharpener?

Certainly Dave Martell is good.  Also Jon Broida.  

But all too often the market is filled with hack sharpeners who have either a motorized knife sharpener (such as a Chef's Choice) or a desire to play "Knife Expert" with a high-speed grinder.

Much better to do it yourself.

Personally, I would use my Edge Pro Apex (or an "Edge Faux" Chinese knock-off) with stones which are at least of Edge Pro quality.

The major problem is seen as a difficulty in getting the Edge Pro down to very low angles, so that when needed, the knife can be properly thinned.

However, you can make a very simple "platform thickener" that will put the ultimate lowest angle of the stone down to actually below zero degrees, by making a 2 inch thick by 3 inch wide by 4 inch long platform.

If it's laminated wood, then you can just glue up the strips to the right thickness.  During lamination, you can also put powerful magnets near the front of the platform thickener, near the corners, under the top surface of the platform thickener.  I would suggest they be round and flat, with the diameter of the magnets just less than the largest drill bit you readily can use.

For a source of plywood, you can try a local crafts store, such as Michael's, which sells a Revell brand kit of 3 inch wide hobby plywood in a bag.  

Once constructed  put a block of wood with its back about 55% of the thickness of the platform thickener back from the front edge of the platform thickener (for a 2 inch thickness, that would be 1.1 inch).  This will position the platform at just the right distance from the vertical pole of the Edge Pro, so that the edge of the thickener will align at just the same distance from the vertical pole as your original Edge Pro platform's front edge.  

Then drill a hole through the centerline of the platform, so that you can insert a bolt through the platform thickener that will allow a bolt to reach the slot in the Edge Pro platform.  Countersink that hole enough to allow for a flathead bolt to rest with the top of the bolt below the top surface of the platform thickener.  

Next, drill a hole through a piece of wood narrow enough to fit in the slot of the Edge Pro platform.  This will allow you to have the platform thickener and this strip of wood clamp the Edge Pro platform without putting pressure on the Edge Pro;s platform support splines. 

Assuming you do use plywood or some other wood product, be sure to paint or otherwise seal the entire surface of the platform thickener (and don't forget to do the same with the drilled hole - a "Q-Tip" will spread your paint, varnish or other sealant down the hole just fine).  That sealant will protect the platform from moisture problems. 

You can now assemble the platform thickener and use it to lower the effective lowest angle of the Edge Pro to any angle desired.  Of course, the angle markings on the vertical pole will not be usable, but anyone using an angle cube can establish angles without further problems.  And there should be enough thickness on a 2 inch platform thickener to allow for use of the drill stop collar trick for establishing consistent uniform angles between different thickness Edge Pro mounted stones.

Galley Swiller


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

Ok, been using the takamura for almost two days on 12 hours shifts and I'm just blown away by this knife. It weighs next to nothing which at first , was a bit worrying, I like heavy knifed hence the wustof, but wow, the wustoff has been put away and not came out since it does all the delicate garnishes , no problem with such a laser thin blade it slides through any thing ive tryed so far, I've even convinced my chef to pick one up he's that impressed after a brief test , now all I need to ask is angles , nw it doesn't need it , but I will probably give it a strop tonight out of habbit, angles on wustoff I was using was 20 as it is with most knifes from European cultures, now I have a feeling this knife is using a 15 double bevel, can someone verify this for me so I can more or less work out the right angle for the takamura migaki r2, just so I don't make any mistakes in future when it comes to sharpening as I tend to free hand, if there is any guides out there that can achieve the angle that is necasary I'm all ears , as for building my own apex, I can't see myself getting round to that as I'm or we are in Christmas season now, lots of tours , busy restaraunt nights , we don't stop! Thanks again for reccomending this knife , I'm in love! The misses also thanks you for tempting me to spend 130ish$ over 300 pounds! Bonus ;-)


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

@pricey are you right handed? Unless marked otherwise, gyutos are asymmetric for righties. Flat side more flat, right side more convexed for food release. For sharpening angles you have two options

1) follow the factory angle. Mark the edge bevel with a sharpie, when you sharpen, it will abrade away the sharpie. You can easily see if your angles too high, too low, etc

2) Do what you want and set your own. As a righty, I sharpen probably 12 degrees on the right side and 15 on the left. don't measure though, that's just a guess. At these more acute angles, you can add a microbevel on one side to strengthen the edge.

IMO you don't need a guide, it doesn't matter what the angle is, as long as you can hold it consistently in your sharpening session


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

When you have a day off, grab some wine, beer, whatever you like and spend two hours watching throuh the JKI sharpening playlist. What you learn will be invaluable






This post by dave m is also very enlightening for new sharpeners:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/5656-Asymmetry-–-The-REAL-DEAL


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

A righty indeed, I will have a look tonight , I already can sharpen on stones and have a nice set that I bought a while back,I'm not perfect but I can keep a constistent angle more or less 90 % of the time, I hope but the sharpie idea sounds brilliant, as for the angle I'm amazed by the angle the set the knife comes with so I will stick to that . The knife bareley touches the board I find myself very delicate with it so I can't imagine the strength being an issue? I will read through those websites and watch the videos tonight after work . I found myself chopping every thing in the kitchen , just for the sake of playing with the knife, beautiful performer . Really happy .


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## galley swiller (May 29, 2013)

pricey, don't be surprised if the factory primary bevel angle on your knife is 10 degrees or less.

MillionsKnives, at this point SG2 and R2 probably are the same, but there have been at least 2 "R2" steels, made by different steel companies.

Kobelco Steel ("Kobe") is the manufacturer of the steel "SG2" and its version of "R2". It's the same steel, excepting that the "SG2" designation is used as the core steel by Takefu Special Steel in their marketing of their clad product (Takefu does not make their steel. They buy the raw steel from firms such as Kobelco and then clad the core steel and outer layer steels before selling that product to clients, generally with a trade name that Takefu supplies).

The other version of "R2" steel is or was manufactured by GSB Acero Steel. There's apparently some doubt as to whether GSB Acero is still making any "R2".

For a detailed description, see this post on Kitchen Knives Forum (mostly about 2-1/2 years old): http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/10067-R2-and-SG-2-steel

Hope that either helps (or confuses)

Galley Swiller


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

Indeed, this is completely different to the wustoff I'm used to , even global didnt need such an acute angle, still it's all a learning curve and I'm too stubborn to just go back to German knifed besides I've fell in love with this knife so far, so now I'm aware the factory angle isn't really a finish, I've put the knife away, I have a sharpie at home so I'll use the sharpie trick, can I ask why do most people reccomend a 15 degree angle on japaneese knifed , or is this a Chinese whispers and every one has their own personalised angles to sharpen, having not used many Japanese knifed let alone sharpen , I will probably try what millions suggested with 15 on right 12 on left. Now another querie, I got a set , of whetstones not so long ago it was a 1000#6000#13000# now when I was listening to John from jki last night he specifies a finishing stone should not really exceed 6k in his oppiniom as the extra polish doesn't do kitchen knifed any favours , but from what Ive seen it does? Can that just depend on the knifes?


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

That's probably about right, I don't actually know what angles I sharpen at, I never measured.  It is eyeball estimation based on knowing what 90, 45, 22.5, and half of that look like.  What I was trying to illustrate is that the right side should be a little more acute for asymmetry reasons. 

As for how high grit to go, I stop at 5 or 6k on double bevels.  This is preference.  If it's too slick, you can have trouble with tomato skin, onion skin,things like that.  On single bevels and straight razors, I take it to much higher grit.


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

Ok so , happy with the takamura , works well for my slicing dicing , ext and my arty farty garnishes, now, now I need a usuba, I think they are they called? For veg prep as in more thicker veg like squashes , pumpkins, save chipping the takamura!


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## bonesetter (Nov 11, 2015)

Pricey - can I ask you what blade length you went for and where you bought your knife (it was the Migaki wasn't it?) from?

I'm in the UK too and am looking for a couple of knives

Cheers


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/takamura6.html

It is a brialliant blade, just don't use it on any thing that might cause any tourqe as these guys call it, any squashes or pumpkins ext , will caused chipping however any finer prep jobs slicing dicing , this thing is perfect for !
I can't knock this knife, it only chipped due to my lack of experiamve but I can't reccomend it enough, for the price , it's brilliant!


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

pricey said:


> Ok so , happy with the takamura , works well for my slicing dicing , ext and my arty farty garnishes, now, now I need a usuba, I think they are they called? For veg prep as in more thicker veg like squashes , pumpkins, save chipping the takamura!


Congrats on the Takamurs, but it's not an Usuba you want for what you're suggesting, their edge is far more delicate than your Takamura, used for very fine slicing and Katsuramuki (vegetable skin/paper). I don't know what you might be referring to except maybe a Chinese chef knife.

Rick


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## bonesetter (Nov 11, 2015)

pricey said:


> http://www.chefknivestogo.com/takamura6.html
> 
> It is a brialliant blade, just don't use it on any thing that might cause any tourqe as these guys call it, any squashes or pumpkins ext , will caused chipping however any finer prep jobs slicing dicing , this thing is perfect for !
> I can't knock this knife, it only chipped due to my lack of experiamve but I can't reccomend it enough, for the price , it's brilliant!


Gotcha, thanks

I'm liking the Tanaka blue #2 240 Damascus with Bubinga handle listed on Knives and Stones (would link, but still can't for some reason)





  








Tanaka-Blue-2-Damascus-Gyuto-240mm-compare.jpg




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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

Any Chinese cleavers you can reccomend, only thing I don't like about cleavers is just there blade , feels a little awkward to use. Maybe looking at a few I may pick one up, but I'm not going to rush this purchase !


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

With the holiday sale you can get Suien VC at JCK for $144 shipped. That is crazy value on this already high price\performance cleaver


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## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

Check your local Chinese market. I can't see the point to pay more than $20-30 for a cleaver.


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

MillionsKnives said:


> With the holiday sale you can get Suien VC at JCK for $144 shipped. That is crazy value on this already high price\performance cleaver


What kind of steel is this , vg10? 
Is this more common than other steels for cleavers?


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

Also is it even worth picking a cleaved up just for tough veg, or is there maybe a bigger gyuto better for the work horse tasks and keep to takamura for literally softer and delicate veg prep, 

Can I ask what you guys are using in your day to day basis , because I'm actually trying to work out what I need, I have a paring knife , not great but it does the job I need , got the takamura migaki can do every thing up to hardness of carrots for delicate prep wise, now I just need a work horse which could be a cleaver I guess, 

As for the suien , your right its a very good price however after seeing that someone from these forums naught it , but had some problems with the bolsters on the grip I think it was , gaps in the handle , causing discomfort which then hinders performance a little I guess , sent it back, and got another which was worse, I'm now very hesitant to buy one from there. 

So yes what I'm asking in short is what are you guys carrying round in your current sets , what are you using each knife for?


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

And what are the benefits of a carbon steel blade?


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Quote:


pricey said:


> So yes what I'm asking in short is what are you guys carrying round in your current sets , what are you using each knife for?


What's in my bag right now:

Suien VC cleaver - everything knife, all veg prep, boneless meat. No problems with the handle for me, I find it very comfortable with good fit and finish. I know the post you're talking about, and it's the only bad experience I have seen regarding the handle. I think it's an anomaly. You can find many more reviews on kitchenknifeforums or even the old knifeforum. Cleavers aren't for everyone, but I started using full sized chinese cleavers a year ago and haven't gone back. In fact, I sold off many gyutos. I can get repeatable results of cutting things very thin and evenly (and fast) with a cleaver that I can't even approach with a chefs. It's a short and sweet learning curve. I started reading this, and watched a buttload of old iron chef videos http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...course-on-why-I-love-Chinese-Cleavers-re-post Make no mistake, this is the OPPOSITE direction than you went with a lighter knife. Cleavers are heavy and you have to learn to let the weight do the work. On the plus side, they are exactly where you want them to be all the time and the knuckle clearance is exceptional. Anyway don't want to derail this start a new thread about cleavers if you want
Konosuke white steel 210mm gyuto - Very narrow, I use it like a long petty. Scallions, chives, shallot
Itinomonn wa butcher - butchering around bones and joints

Aranyik heavy meat cleaver- beater knife for bones, squash, lobster. Cheap ($30-35 on ebay), indestructible. This is from a Thai company makes machetes for opening coconut, so they know how to make tough steel.

Kochi sujihiki - boneless roasts, briskets, ham, turkey breast, bacon. I was specifically looking for a thicker suji with no flex. Depending on how you use it, you might want something thinner

Itinomonn kasumi gyuto, CCK 1103 - backups and sometimes I want a thinner knife
That's the normal kit, then i have others I don't pack normally. White steel yanagiba and deba from Korin when I do fish. Lots of other chefs/gyutos


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## pricey (Jun 7, 2015)

Very interesting choice, referring the suien that you reccomended , how does that take and hold an edge, and at that, how much work will it take to get sharp again on the stones, also, when sharpening , how high do you go with the cleaver?


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

It's carbon steel, 62-63 HRC, very easy to sharpen.   If your technique isn't perfect, it would probably still get sharp.   It's the tiniest bit wedgy on carrots out of the box.  I spent maybe 10-15 min thinning behind the edge on 300 grit stone when I got it.  With this substantial metal behind the edge, it is less likely to fail, so edge retention has been better than my gyutos.  I like my bevel ~12 on the right and 15 on the left; can't say exactly because I never measure.  I also microbevel the right side 30+ degrees.  No chipping issues with this so far.

Normal maintenance of carbon knives for me is just a few swipes on a finishing stone.  Usually this is enough to bring it back.  "real" sharpening setting the bevel and everything from 1000 grit and going up I only do when the higher grit stones fail.


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