# Suisin Sakigake Deba 180mm



## gennaroe (Mar 16, 2010)

I've been meaning to pick up a deba, and want to take advantage of the current sale at Korin. Does anybody have experience with the Sakigake line from Suisin? Here's the blurb from Korin:

The Suisin Sakigake knives are carefully forged to create a kasumi style knife out of yasuki-ko (white #3 steel) and soft iron steel. Yasuki-ko knives have a slightly lower carbon content than white steel #2, making the blade a softer material. Once forged, each blade is attached to a magnolia wood handle with a water buffalo horn bolster. All knives includes a magnolia wood knife cover to protect the blade when not in use. The material and price point of this line make it one of Korin's recommended lines for traditional Japanese knife beginners.

Specifications

HRc: 61 
Bevel: Single Edged 
Steel Type: White Steel #3 (Moisture and acidity will cause discoloration or rust)
I'm trying to stay under $300, so other options I'm looking at are the Masamoto KK for $40 more, or the Moritaka Kuroichi from another store.


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

What's your familiarity with the deba and its uses? How often will you butcher whole fish? And what's your sharpening setup?


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## gennaroe (Mar 16, 2010)

Hey Chris,

I've used a deba to butcher fish before, but never owned one. I'm a professional cook, and for the past 6 months have butchered 1-3 5 kilo fish per day while working fish station. Generally, I use my 270 mm stainless Masamoto sujihiki for everything, but it is my oldest knife and I am planning to replace it with a carbon Suisin shortly. Moving forward, I'm not sure how regularly I'll be butchering fish as I am between jobs, but I'd rather have a dedicated knife for fish butchery that would allow me to save the sujihiki for other tasks and not have to sharpen it quite as much. Further, I do have a 300 mm Doi yanagi that I haven't been using much for lack of the deba to complete the Japanese fish butchering set.

As for stones, I sharpen with a Bester 1200 grit and the Suehiro Rika 5k.

Thanks for the help.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Tanaka makes an inexpensive 180 in blue 2, $150 at cktg. Their lower priced knives are not known for great grinds, and CKTG is the one selling them. Still possibly it might be on par there with the particular low-end suisin in mind, and I would prefer blue 2 over white 3 anyways.

Well, considering the critical nature of the grind here, it does seem a crap shoot. This might be a question better put to the folks on KKF, you would likely find reliable reviews in all price ranges here.


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

Don't do yellow #3 steel if you're a pro. That includes Masamoto KK. It won't stand up to that kind of constant use.

Beyond that, I've got nothing: brands aren't my thing.


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## gennaroe (Mar 16, 2010)

Thanks for the advice on steel type Chris. 

I'm now considering the Richmond Sakai white #2 because I've had great experiences with other Richmond knives in the past, and the Kajiwara aogami #2, both on CKTG. Any thoughts on those Rick?

I also posted on the KKF forum, so looking forward to good ideas from them as well.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

I personally have no experience with any single-bevel knives, I just know the grind is a bit critical to successfully sharpening these beasts. Yellow steel 3 has low carbon content and relatively poor edge holding as Chris emphasized, and is not a clean steel like white and blue. I'd recommend blue #2 for your use because of the edge retention. I especially recommend it over white steel for the lower cost knives because it's easier to heat treat so the HT will be more consistent. But if the knife you like happens to be white #2 then go for that, it will work.

Richmond knives may have served you well so far, but we are a little picky about grinds and Richmonds don't tend to shine here. You may not notice the lack with the double-bevels, but you may very likely notice it with a deba. Anyways the folks on KKF will steer you right here.


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## gennaroe (Mar 16, 2010)

Thanks Rick. Time to add some more questions to the mix...I thought I was settled on a sujihiki, and then I started looking around and was tempted by a bunch of different options. I'm replacing my old 270mm Masamoto VG that has been ground down a bunch, and now seems pretty clunky in comparison to my Konosukes after 8 years of use. Here are some of the options I'm looking at:

Akifusa 240mm Aogami Super -- Love the handle and overall aesthetic, looks like a pretty thin knife, is right at the absolute top end of my budget at $250. But it's 30mm shorter than I'd like, and I've got no experience with Akifusa or Aogami Super.

Gesshin Uraku 270mm Stainless -- Price is right, seems like the sharpening and maintenance will be similar to my Konosukes, but more workhorse and less laser. Tempted by the Ginga, but it's pricey, and I worry a little too delicate for a hectic service.

Seisuke 240mm R2/SG2 -- Another one that's a bit shorter than I'd like, but seems to check all the other boxes. No experience with Japanny or Seisuke though, and haven't seen many reviews in the forum.

Anryu Kurouchi 270mm -- Seems a bit chunky, but I still find myself intrigued.

Looking forward to everybody's insights.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Well sure a Ginga is the thing, if you can baby it just a little, don't mind the flexing, and can take the price. For proteins I didn't think laser was so important, but why not pick up a Shapton Pro 220 and do some thinning on the Masamoto?

Jon's Kochi is a beauty, and pretty close to your limit. All carbon, and the V2 steel holds an edge better than white, and touches up just as easy. Out of stock for the moment, but while checking on its availability Jon is always worth discussing things with.

The Uraku is AUS-10, which is pretty much 440C. I like 440C, but it is very abrasion resistant on the stones, not sure if the same applies to AUS-10, but I think probably so.

Geshin Stainless is AUS-8, like 440B, less effort to sharpen I'm sure.

If you worry that AS might not stand the abuse then don't consider R2 either, I know R2 microchips easy enough.

CKTG "IS" known for false representation, That Anryu looks plenty thin at the edge, but that picture will likely not be representative of what you actually get. Then there is the question of HT (white is a finiky steel here) and other QC concerns not too uncommon with CKTG bargains.

If you're adventuresome, yoshihiro has been known for QC issues, and don't mind the basic Western handle, you could consider their relatively inexpensive offerings on Amazon. 270's in AUS-10 and something called Daisu Powdered Steel.

I think you might be happiest with the Kochi.


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## gennaroe (Mar 16, 2010)

Thanks for all that info Rick, I was having a heck of a time figuring out what to compare the steels of the Gesshins to. I totally missed the Kochi while looking on JKI, and it looks awesome -- I sent Jon an email to discuss some options. 

Any experience with Akifusas? Most of the posts I've found here discuss their petties and the fact that the same knives seem to be available from under a slew of different brand names. I did find the exact same Akifusa available in SRS-15, and I'm a kind of curious about that steel.

I have a feeling it'll boil down to springing for the Ginga or waiting out the Kochi though.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

There is apparently just one company that makes knives in SRS-15, and they are rebranded under possibly a half dozen different names. Jons Kagero is an example, and I have heard more than a few say the Kagero has a better grind and F+F than the Akifusa SRS-15. Jon typically demands higher specs for the knives he carries.

There is no slicer available from the maker. As Jon explains, the process of making these knives at a reasonable price requires expensive tooling for each knife, so they concentrate on only the most popular shapes/sizes.

I'm sure you understand the Kochi and Ginga are significantly different knives, the Kochi being obviously more robust/stiff, so maybe you need to get yourself both.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Another Deba to consider, this company is regarded at giving excellent value for the money:
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/mazaki-kurouchi-deba-170mm/


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## jbroida (Nov 13, 2011)

rick alan said:


> There is apparently just one company that makes knives in SRS-15, and they are rebranded under possibly a half dozen different names. Jons Kagero is an example, and I have heard more than a few say the Kagero has a better grind and F+F than the Akifusa SRS-15. Jon typically demands higher specs for the knives he carries.
> 
> There is no slicer available from the maker. As Jon explains, the process of making these knives at a reasonable price requires expensive tooling for each knife, so they concentrate on only the most popular shapes/sizes.
> 
> I'm sure you understand the Kochi and Ginga are significantly different knives, the Kochi being obviously more robust/stiff, so maybe you need to get yourself both.


we've actually got them making a 240mm sujihiki now (working on a 270mm if i can swing it)


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