# Food Words and Expressions I Don't Like Because I'm Old and Cranky



## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Venting.

_*Words:*_

Let me just get the ball rolling with two which I dislike for the same reason:

(1)_ Veggie_

(2) _Yummy_

Maybe it's my inner (and/or outer) aging curmodgeon, but I am not a child and you are not my mommy.

_*Phrases and Cliches:*_

Here are three, just for starters:

(1) _A little..._

You hear this on TV cooking shows. "A little" has become the food equivalent of the teenager's "like." If asked what's in your pesto just say "basil, salt, olive oil, parmesan, pine nuts and garlic." You don't have to be all like "a little basil," and "a little garlic." It's awkward, hackneyed, and has become meaningless.

(2) _...meltingly tender_

Food reviewers killed this one. Makes me homicidal.

(3) _Adds (or just for, or...) ...a little crunch_

I'm not sure which Food Network personality is the biggest offender -- not only with "crunch" but in combination with "a little." It's either Michael Symon or Sandra Lee. It further irritates me to use their names in the same sentence.

And you? Which shibboleths get your teeth grating?

BDL


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

I like the word vegie.

I used to be bothered by the word "with" in menu/dish names. I've gotten over this one mostly. It's too much like a run-on sentence and muddles up the description with what should be the focus of the item.   Give me some verbs. Accented, glazed, accompanied, paired.    With is too much like costar billing.


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

With au jus.

Zesty.


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## tylerm713 (Aug 6, 2010)

"Melts in your mouth" when talking about meat. Meat doesn't melt. An adjective with every noun in a description on a menu; for example: "Beautiful seared scallops with creamy polenta, earthy mushrooms, topped with a decadent bearnaise sauce". Speaking of which, I hate the word "decadent". I don't like when things include a "touch" of anything, or if they are "kissed" with anything.


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## kcz (Dec 14, 2006)

Evoo.  Need I say more?


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## tylerm713 (Aug 6, 2010)

KCZ said:


> Evoo. Need I say more?


Can we just say anything that comes out of the mouth of Rachel Ray?

EVOO, yum-o, DE-lish


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Except, according to the folks at Merriam Webster, EVOO is now officially a word.

Ugh!


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## tylerm713 (Aug 6, 2010)

KYHeirloomer said:


> Except, according to the folks at Merriam Webster, EVOO is now officially a word.
> 
> Ugh!


Merriam Webster also claim that "crunk" and "BFF" are valid words. They have lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

I don't think I've ever heard the word "crunk." What's it mean?


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## tylerm713 (Aug 6, 2010)

According to Merriam Webster - crunk: *:* a style of Southern rap music featuring repetitive chants and rapid dance rhythms


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2010)

"Your ah...a bit moody, and difficult to work with"

"Your food cost at 47%, You have to go through the walk in and look at everything, use what is old 1st."

  "they are outside smoking, (food under heat lamps) pick up table 64 first."


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

one truly annoying thing  and i'm neither old or cranky, is when a restaurant states on the menu, they have the 'BEST' whatever....burger, green chile chowder, pizza,water, etc...isn't that for me to decide?...whose 'BEST, theirs? the guy down the street? what if i don't agree..then their promise just becomes another lie ...think i'd rather pay my money and take my own chances from my choices instead of being disappointed and having a negative experience instead of a positive one... plus i never believe them anyway so most probably wouldn't even go in, and if i did, certainly would not trust them, so what's the point...does this make me sound old and cranky? nope...just not a stooge...yeah, i agree with all that posted about how something should taste....give me the ingredients and tell me how its prepared...i can figure it out from there...please don't tell me its going to melt in my mouth.....please!

joey

 hi all from the end of the world, but sunny arizona.....knew something was up when a highway road service sign( you know the blue ones that have icons for gas, food, lodging etc, read...NO SERVICES)....oh yeah, we're talking real boonies here....but good...gotta love it!


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## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

Pasta alfredo when it isn't.

Caesar salad when it isn't.


mjb.


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## ohbeary (Oct 3, 2010)

Drizzled and Draped tch!


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

When they say "homemade" on the menu and the item clearly tastes like it came out of a box, bag or can.


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## catering101 (Jun 27, 2010)

leeniek said:


> When they say "homemade" on the menu and the item clearly tastes like it came out of a box, bag or can.


I definitely agree. Or when you say it's an "original recipe" yet it just tasted like you could have done the same food yourself.


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## gobblygook (Aug 26, 2010)

From Anne Burrell (I like her show, just some of her phrases kill me):

"doing great things"

"btb/rts - bring to boil, reduce to simmer"

"happy girl"

And from Paula Deen and The Neeley's..:

"y'all" in that southern drawl.  It gets old quickly.


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## crocker33 (Nov 2, 2010)

I hate it when...  The waitress approaches the table and in a very concerned tone tells me - "Be sure to let me know if you need anything".  

That's code for: I'll be wondering around elsewhere; come find me because I won't be back this way anytime soon....

After a long wait, I have actually "wondered" into the kitchen and caught her flirting, and told her that I wanted some butter.  No tip that day.


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## crocker33 (Nov 2, 2010)

That dope on The Neeleys is copying Paula Deen by addressing the audience as "Yawl".  I despise P. Deens exaggerated country, and really can't abide that Neeley man lying to us constantly.  I caught him in three lies in one episode about BBQ.  I know BBQ.  He doesn't.  I also know his father Jim Neeley (a gentleman) of INTERSTATE BBQ fame in Memphis.  He (Jim and his wife) should get credit for good BBQ.  Not Pat.  He is an abortion.

Or should have been....


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## crocker33 (Nov 2, 2010)

I think it was Concord or another; not Merriam-Webster that added it as a word to their dictionary.


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## crocker33 (Nov 2, 2010)

I hate being "HELD HOSTAGE" for 20 minutes or more after finishing my meal and giving the money for the check.  When they have my $100.00 bill, I can't leave without my change and I won't. 

The tip begins to dwindle after just a few minutes of paying. 

If I leave while waiting for the check, I can be charged with theft.  Won't happen.  If I leave while waiting for MY change, I lose.  Won't happen.  I may have to wait awhile, but she, unfortunately will be the loser.


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## malch (Jul 27, 2010)

I don't like when menus say "homemade" even if they do make it in house. Because it's still clearly not made at a home.


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

Hehe this thread is great /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

Nothing melts in my mouth except butter and ice. And the occasional bit of icecream.

"Seal in the juices" - it really does not happen. It should be "Sear the meat" - it just adds flavour!

The terms "organic" and "free range" are misued and abused so much. And what's preferable - a "Barn Laid egg" as to a a "Cage Egg" - I'd like to know if anyone does really know. And does "Free range" really mean the birds are browsing out in the field, or is that a misnomer as well? Just seems more of a marketing ploy to me. So they can charge more and make people feel happy, warm and fuzzy.

Hang on - got another one...."Lite" products. Does it mean they are less calorific, or do they, as I've noticed by actually reading the contents now that I have a diabetic to feed, just have less fat but a stack more of sugar?? Yeah, it's a favourite bug bear of mine.


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

Malch said:


> I don't like when menus say "homemade" even if they do make it in house. Because it's still clearly not made at a home.


The whole issue of homemade is wrong anyway.

If I wanted to eat homemade food I'd stay home and make it myself.

Restaurants that use that tired old phrase are remembering how it used to be that people really did flock to places for their homemade food.


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## jim berman (Oct 28, 1999)

"Grilled to perfection" - That is one tired phrase!

And "fresh" modifying ANY noun! Fresh Tomatoes... as opposed to old, nasty, mold-laden puddles of juice?!  Gahhh!!


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

The word "good" used for ingredients. As in, ".....add a teaspoon of good lemon juice." Yeah, right. Like you're able to tell the difference, to begin with. And that, given a choice, you might opt for the bad stuff.


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## nicko (Oct 5, 2001)

I never liked the term "86". It never made any sense to me and I always thought it was a dumb phrase. If your out of something on the menu just say we are out of that.


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## gunnar (Apr 3, 2008)

As a customer I also don't like florid descriptions of food either and I hate "seasonal Veg" especially as it usually isn't.

in the back of house i don't like the term "on the fly" ...... you only hear this cause somebody screwed something up somewhere and expect me to fix it for them ahead of everyone else. I hear "on the fly" I had better hear the excuse or "reason" for it.


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## gobblygook (Aug 26, 2010)

Organic -- yeah, I love that one.  Organic chicken... there's no other choice.  There are no lab-fabricated chickens made of man-made ingredients.


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## tylerm713 (Aug 6, 2010)

Ehh, I'm over the whole "organic" thing. There are no USDA regulations on what can be considered organic. Until the government establishes regulations similar to AOC standards, organic is meaningless.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

-"sauted in_______" (add your choice of sauce or liquid)

-Any phrase with "Chef" in it

-"Fire roasted"

-"Oven roasted"

-"Drenched"

Mixed languages, as in,

"Apple pie A'la mode"

"Bleu cheese"

Chicken A'la King

Lots more, but I haven't perused a menu that wasn't on a wall for a few months.....


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## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

"Oven roasted" is used because it is different than "fire roasted" I guess.

Speaking of ovens a restaurant near work had a special for lunch today - baked lasagna. I wonder if they'll ever serve deep fried or grilled lasagna ?

mjb.


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## tylerm713 (Aug 6, 2010)

You mean you don't like poached lasagna?


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## amazingrace (Jul 28, 2006)

The phrase "sorry about that" .  It seems to be the server-world's new mantra.  Dribbled water on you?  "sorry about that".   Forgot to bring butter with the bread "sorry about that" ... whatever it is..."sorry about that".  Spoken as an insincere, almost afterthought.  Yeah...well, kiss your tip goodbye.  Should I be sorry about that?  heh heh


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

ChrisLehrer said:


> With au jus.


Indeed. That one incites a near homicidal rage in me.


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

Oh, I forgot the obvious one.  "Our Famous" or "Our world famous" this or that, for a place that just opened!  How famous could it be?  Sadly I've worked at places guilty of that.  Come to think of, describing your steaks as "hand cut" is also pretty meaningless, too.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

BDL I'm afraid I will have to occasionally annoy you as the word "yummy" is one of my favorites.

I don't like fussy overexagerated descriptions of food that is written in sentences.  I don't need 15min of reading.  Just say:

Roasted Duck Breast - Blackberry reduction; wild rice with nuts and apricots; haricots vertes;

Please don't write:

Roasted Duck Breast - succucelent duck drizzled with an organic blackberry demiglace, accompanied by long grain wild rice seasoned with Del monte apricots and petit pine nuts, served with blanched haricots vertes with a parsley emulsion.  Ugh!!

I dislike all Rachel Ray words except EVOO (but only because it's easier to type out that extra virgin olive oil - I don't SAY EVOO).  Words like sammies and DELISH really annoy me.

I hate Giada's use of the word "nice."  Everything is "nice and golden" or "nice and crispy" or "nice and juicy"....what does nice have to do with it at all?


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## danvis65 (Nov 16, 2010)

Gunnar
As professionals it is our job to see that the customer receives their food in a timely manner and with the best quality we can provide. Mistakes happen. It is part of the human element. One of the first and most important things I was taught early on in my career was if the Line Chef/Expeditor/Waitperson asks for something during the rush, don't question it, just do it. I've seen line cooks argue with servers over whether they did or did not put something in the window and/or what happened/who is responsible. It is usually a moot point and we end up making something again anyway. The only people that suffer are the people that pay our wages...the customer. Again, a busy line is no place for arguments. What ever the situation/reason. If someone needs something "on the fly" hide your pride and "git er done".

Gunnar, are you mistake free? Have you never screwed up? Remember this...when we point our fingers at someone else...that leaves three fingers pointing right back at us. Dan 



Gunnar said:


> As a customer I also don't like florid descriptions of food either and I hate "seasonal Veg" especially as it usually isn't.
> 
> in the back of house i don't like the term "on the fly" ...... you only hear this cause somebody screwed something up somewhere and expect me to fix it for them ahead of everyone else. I hear "on the fly" I had better hear the excuse or "reason" for it.


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## danvis65 (Nov 16, 2010)

Leeniek,

I'm with you on "homemade". But in my case I want to know who's "home" was it made in? And, did they properly cool or hold at the correct temps while in transport from the "home" to the establishment? I'm being feciscious here  I believe what they really are saying is that it was made from "scratch".



leeniek said:


> When they say "homemade" on the menu and the item clearly tastes like it came out of a box, bag or can.


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

actually there are plenty of usda regulations and standards for the production and handling of organic products...from farming to poultry to beef, and pretty strict ones as well..what is organic food? the simple answer is...meats, eggs and dairy products that come from animals that are given no antibiotics, or growth hormones...food is produced without using most conventional pesticides or fertilizers made with sewage sludge or bioengineering plus some other stuff that i don't completely understand....before a product can be labeled organic, a government approved certifier inspects the farm where the food is grown to make sure the farmer is following all the rules necessary to meet the usda organic standards...companies that process or handle organic food before it gets to your supermarket or restaurant must be certified as well...for farming its not just not using chemicals...its techniques and principles as well...its crop rotation, and using composted animal manures also....guess it comes down to how much you trust your government...or not!

joey


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## gunnar (Apr 3, 2008)

danvis65 said:


> Gunnar
> As professionals it is our job to see that the customer receives their food in a timely manner and with the best quality we can provide. Mistakes happen. It is part of the human element. One of the first and most important things I was taught early on in my career was if the Line Chef/Expeditor/Waitperson asks for something during the rush, don't question it, just do it. I've seen line cooks argue with servers over whether they did or did not put something in the window and/or what happened/who is responsible. It is usually a moot point and we end up making something again anyway. The only people that suffer are the people that pay our wages...the customer. Again, a busy line is no place for arguments. What ever the situation/reason. If someone needs something "on the fly" hide your pride and "git er done".
> 
> Gunnar, are you mistake free? Have you never screwed up? Remember this...when we point our fingers at someone else...that leaves three fingers pointing right back at us. Dan
> ...


Oh I have made my mistakes trust me...and your right when the Chef asks for it, deliver...but there is always the instance of somehow a whole plate disappeared? an entire steak just vanished? wth? I don't like to argue about it at the line but I am darn sure gonna find out what happened when I get a chance. Also the "I need another steak med rare on the fly" just begs the question "what happened to the one I just gave you?". Having been accused of giving servers a steak dinner for a lunch break, I always ask when it's one of them. The Chef, KM, even the expediter can ask me for anything and I'll try to get it to them as fast as it cooks, but in the end, part of my responsibility is to match whats on the ticket and have an accounting for it.


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## crocker33 (Nov 2, 2010)

I believe "organic chicken" means that it was raised without antibiotics.  Now, that's important.


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## crocker33 (Nov 2, 2010)

I think they are appealing to an emotional point of purchase. Made from scratch is correct, but the reason for "home made" is the emotional impact.


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## danvis65 (Nov 16, 2010)

Crocker33 said:


> I think they are appealing to an emotional point of purchase. Made from scratch is correct, but the reason for "home made" is the emotional impact.


Very true Crock....it is much more cozy to say homemade.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

_Until the government establishes regulations similar to AOC standards, organic is meaningless._

As pertains to animals and animal proteins, that's true. But it isn't true as pertains to vegetables. "Organic" is very strictly defined.


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## tylerm713 (Aug 6, 2010)

KYHeirloomer said:


> _Until the government establishes regulations similar to AOC standards, organic is meaningless._
> 
> As pertains to animals and animal proteins, that's true. But it isn't true as pertains to vegetables. "Organic" is very strictly defined.


You're correct. But what I had in mind was "organic trout" or "organic beef". Who's to say it's organic?


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

"made-to -order tantalizing chilled prawns"  WTF?  how do you do that?

pesto made from something other than basil

Prawns? really? looks like a 20-25 count to me.

Cajun Salmon? what body of water is that salmon from?

Actually having lived in the deep south....Little Rock, Memphis, New Orleans, Baton Rouge....Y'all as well as "yes mam" or "sir sir" are just apart of the lingo.....

it's real, not put on.

seasonal term gets me when used improperly....

local, when it's not

Heirloom, when it's not

fussy pretensious food with descriptions to match.

Really must be hitting that cranky time of life.....at least today!


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## tylerm713 (Aug 6, 2010)

shroomgirl said:


> Actually having lived in the deep south....Little Rock, Memphis, New Orleans, Baton Rouge....Y'all as well as "yes mam" or "sir sir" are just apart of the lingo.....
> 
> it's real, not put on.


I never knew you lived in NOLA or Baton Rouge. Ya'll is something that I will always say, not matter how proper I try to be. And in the professional workplace, I have been corrected several times saying "ma'am" and "sir". But my mama would whip me if I didn't say yes ma'am.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

I can't begin to relate to those who think basic courtesy is wrong.

Worst case I ever ran into was in Maine. We were in a small restaurant and the waitress asked me something. I responded, "yes, ma'am." And she went ballistic, all but screaming "I'm not so old that you need to be ma'amming me!"

Say what? Really, it was as if I'd called her over by saying something like, "hey, b-tch!"


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## greg (Dec 8, 1999)

Jim said:


> "Grilled to perfection" - That is one tired phrase!


Jim and I are in 100% concurrence on this one.


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

Crocker33 said:


> I believe "organic chicken" means that it was raised without antibiotics. Now, that's important.


not sure if you were being facetious, but you SHOULD be concerned about ranchers that use antibiotics for poultry and beef. this is somewhat of a smoking gun issue whether or not it is passed along to humans, but drug resistant microbes have been found in humans up to 2 weeks after ingestion... in the gut,they have the potential of becoming drug resistant infections.....hello, drug resistant infections! that means you're up the creek without a paddle if you get infected...eat what you want, and good luck to you, though to me its like playing russian roulette....

joey


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## tylerm713 (Aug 6, 2010)

With all the "non-organic" food I've eaten in my lifetime, it's a wonder I'm not dead then.


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## kungchowkrystle (Nov 19, 2010)

Haha, this thread is awesome! Although as a former food writer I have to say I love using hyperbole to describe my food and I think descriptions with lots of big words are lovely /img/vbsmilies/smilies/blushing.gif

I saw an ad the other day for oatmeal being served at a coffee place and it was for "Quaker Oats with frothed milk and 'topped to perfection'" and THAT really got my goat. What does that even mean? First off, I thought it was stupid they were selling crappy processed oats that I can make at home and I think "topped to perfection" is a dumb phrase. Listen, buddy, having three craisins and a handful of ground nuts on top of oatmeal is not "perfection."


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

I remember reading the description of a Succulent Chicken Breast on a menu one time, I broke out in cold sweats. I have always made food fun and enjoyable for my clients and customers. I don't care how fine dining the restaurant, I still want people being themselves and enjoy serving a meal to people who appreciate their efforts. I think some of the crazy words come out when Chefs and other food service pros are trying to impress people on how smart and slick they are............. Have to go make some Sammy's   BBBBBYYYEEEEEE....ChefBillyB


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

not to beat a dead horse, but its not limited to getting infections just from your food, its any infection...flu, cold, pneumonia, intestinal bug.....it will be harder to battle an infection of any kind and antibiotics may or may not work if you are resistant to them...

here's a new food description i just saw yesterday...'hand spanked fruit'.....gotta love it!

joey


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## chefbazookas (Oct 11, 2010)

I don't appreciate being tagged with "Honey", "Sweetie" or "Baby" by my server. 

If I'm down south and my server's at least 15 years my senior, I'm fine with it.  But having some 20 year old calling me "Honey" every time they come to the table is an annoyance.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

_I believe "organic chicken" means that it was raised without antibiotics_

"Organic chicken" means whatever the marketer wants it to mean. There are no, none, zip, nada standards or rules applying to fowl. "Free range" is another handy marketing term. Very baggy---you can put anything into it that you want.


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## agchief (May 30, 2010)

Use if the phrase "make it pop" as in "adding salt will make the tomato flavor pop!"

and "Awesome" to describe almost anything that is well short of awe inspiring.

my two cents...thank you.


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

*Aioli* used to mean "flavored mayonnaise" --- I will accept several versions of aioli, all of them made largely from garlic, and I am perfectly OK with several regional spellings, but I will not accept "our house special smoky chipotle aioli." (Incidentally, I'd have to disagree, just slightly, with the person who objects to uses of "pesto" that don't include basil: there are legitimate arguments to be made for sauces to be called "pesto" that are not _pesto Genovese_ or much similar. But in principle, yes, I agree with you.)

"*Our*" anything --- I dislike the use of first person plural pronouns on menus, especially chain restaurant menus.

I have had it up to here with *signature*. As far as I am concerned, nobody has a signature dish unless he or she has written on it. I don't care if you invented it: Paul Bocuse may not claim the truffle soup he invented as his "signature dish." The notion was bad to begin with, and is now bankrupt. "Chef's special" can stay, because it is hallowed by age.

Most of all, I hate the word *authentic*. I don't care if you were taught to make the dish standing beside the ultimate old grandma from wherever. The only dishes of which you can properly say they are or are not "authentic" are ones that are in some sense clearly defined or regulated. If you really want to say you are serving "authentic _bistecca alla Fiorentina_," I'm OK with that, but you'd darn well better mean that you obey to the T all the local precise regulations in Florence about that dish. If you really want to claim certain French dishes this way, fine, I guess, but why not just say "made to Escoffier's recipe" or something like that? It's funny: nobody ever wants to claim that they're making an authentic French haute cuisine classic, because they're too busy claiming that something is "authentic" Mexican, Chinese, or Indian food, which is almost totally oxymoronic (and without the oxy-, too).


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

ChefBazookas said:


> I don't appreciate being tagged with "Honey", "Sweetie" or "Baby" by my server.
> 
> If I'm down south and my server's at least 15 years my senior, I'm fine with it. But having some 20 year old calling me "Honey" every time they come to the table is an annoyance.


Sorry sugar.

BDL


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Chris,

Could you expand on your objection to "signature?" I agree that it's overused, and nondescriptive. But I don't understand what your trying to say.


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## chefbazookas (Oct 11, 2010)

boar_d_laze said:


> ChefBazookas said:
> 
> 
> > I don't appreciate being tagged with "Honey", "Sweetie" or "Baby" by my server.
> ...


 /img/vbsmilies/smilies/tongue.gif Now, if you'll pardon me while I go put away these yummy veggies that I prepared as a side to some meltingly tender steak which I topped with asparagus...just for a little crunch. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif


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## macgregor (Oct 21, 2010)

Crocker33 said:


> I hate being "HELD HOSTAGE" for 20 minutes or more after finishing my meal and giving the money for the check. When they have my $100.00 bill, I can't leave without my change and I won't.
> 
> The tip begins to dwindle after just a few minutes of paying.
> 
> If I leave while waiting for the check, I can be charged with theft. Won't happen. If I leave while waiting for MY change, I lose. Won't happen. I may have to wait awhile, but she, unfortunately will be the loser.


Quadruple post?

Edit is great for epiphanies


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## crocker33 (Nov 2, 2010)

What the?


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## greg (Dec 8, 1999)

Crocker33 said:


> What the?


I think what is being said here is that, instead of making 4 posts one after the other, you could have just used the "edit" button on the first post and added subsequent info that way.


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

It really grinds my gears when...

People say "farm fresh eggs" when they aren't.

It may have been laid in the morning, but not this morning (so to speak /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif)

dan


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## gypsy2727 (Mar 9, 2010)

"Smothered" I do not want my food "smothered" in anything ....even it it is Monteray Jack Cheese on my Nachos in a Road House!

"Wild Mushroom Soup" .....if your going to serve this to me , it better be WILD MUSHROOMS

"Fresh Herbs"   FYI  .....does not come outta a jar

'


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

http://www.soilassociation.org/

Does the USA not have a similar org to the UK's Soil Association for certification of organic produce?


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Yes and no, Ishbel.

With produce, there are federal regulations as to how the stuff was grown, and whether or not you can even use the word "organic." Basically, this applies only to market growers. And even if you follow the regs, if you earn more than a certain, relatively small, amount, you must be certified and inspected.

The Federal regulations were intended to replace the morass of state-level rules, which ranged from the non-existend to the very stringent. For instance, in Kentucky, "organic" meant whateve the grower wanted it to mean, whereas California and Oregon had (and continue to have) regs that are much more stringent than the Federal rules.

The problem with the Federal rules is tha major imputs were made by the huge factory farm people, like Monsanto. Naturally, they therefore favor that style of farming, rather than the small, diverse growers most people think of when "organic" is mentioned.

One result was that a great number of organic growers no longer use the term, because the costs of certification aren't worth the effort. I have a friend, for instance, who figured, putting aside the direct costs of certification, that the paperwork alone would take her 26 hours. 

However, because phrases like "grown using organic methods, but not certified" are greeted with suspicion by consumers, who often don't understand what's involved, other grous, such as the grass roots CNG (Certified Naturally Grown) have sprung up. This gives growers a rational certification system, without the costs and hassles of the Federal rules. And, because it provides a recognizable logo, it avoids the awkward phrases when you try to be honest about how the food was produced.

For other foods there are no consistent rules or standards. So, when you see terms like "organic chicken," it is meaningless. "Organic," in that usage, means whatever the seller wants it to mean.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Organic Honey......who's to say which flowers the bees hung out with?
smothered is a very southern term....it's a "comfort food term" for me.

Chris, marketing your food takes some ego....albiet hopefully with alot of humility too.....

how would you let potential customers know that you make the crackers, bread, desserts, cheese, sausages etc.....which for many is a selling point....kind of funny because made in house or by hand or signiture or whathaveyou, may not be any better than what's on the market.  But it confers care in what you do....

So, how to say it is always a challenge.


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## mustaroad (May 15, 2010)

The word 'dollap' bugs me.


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## crocker33 (Nov 2, 2010)

I would rather he address the issue and not the style.  Maybe he has no opinion.

Crocker33


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## tylerm713 (Aug 6, 2010)

Crocker33 said:


> I would rather he address the issue and not the style. Maybe he has no opinion.
> 
> Crocker33


 Simmer down now. He wasn't being mean. But he's right. The edit button is a beautiful thing.


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## jgw899 (Nov 12, 2010)

Just about anything that  is used to describe wine is pretty darn annoying to me!


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

"cat piss" who wants to drink wine that has that nuiance.....

or barnyard, or horseblanket???  And these are $$$$ wines.....


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

"Organic" here means the soil, the treatment and raising of the food/ stock.  I think the soil has to have been not chemically treated full stop for the last 5 years.  No pesticides etc at all.  Unfortunately, this does make the price of organic much higher.  One would imagine that for something to be truly organic that the stock would have to be fed on truly organic fodder,

Back on track, I also dislike over-worded descriptions of a dish.  They put me off rather than making me want to choose it.  It's like you want a fish dish, simply done.  The menu description goes on and on endlessly down to the last little ingredient. Arrgh. That's sometimes when I prefer an oriental restaurant and the menu is by number,  Simpler, more effective. If a restaurant is going to go full out with a description on how a dish is cooked and all the ingredients, then the serve staff need to be able to describe it, but that puts a big pressure too on service staff.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

There are really a lot of variables in that, Sunshine.

In an upscale, fine-dining establishment I expect the wait staff to be fully cogniscent about the dishes on the menu. In a casual dining restaurant, not so much. Heck, in most of those places if if they even know what's on the menu by name I'm happy.

But, as to the menu itself, I prefer it to be clean, with a minimum of flowery description. But I do like a straightforward summery of the dish: "Grilled medallions of venison on a bed of faro, topped with au jus" tells me what I need to know up front. If I require more info than that, I can ask the server. What I don't need is: "Tender medallions of venison lovingly grilled over wafted applewood smoke, served on a blanket of ancient Roman grain, all gently enrobed in an au jus and topped with a mound of lightly dressed micro-greens, garnished with shallot chips."


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## danvis65 (Nov 16, 2010)

KY.....

  Please don't think of me as the grammar police but...when you stated "topped with au jus" it is redundant, actually saying "topped with with jus". Au is french for "with" and "jus" for juice. Au jus....with juice.  "Topped au jus" sounds kind of funny so maybe "topped with jus"??? Have a great Thanksgiving! Dan


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## bughut (Aug 18, 2007)

my gears are well grinded with all the stuff thats amazingly done by hand ;-

Hand sliced..Woo Hoo!!

hand fried That's always got me thinking...Kettle chips must have a great medical insurance deal for all those burn claims

Hand selected for you???

Sorted by hand...Well that makes it well worth the extra I'm paying for it

Hand made...Once again ???


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Just remembered.  Shrimp Scampi.


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## greg (Dec 8, 1999)

kuan said:


> Just remembered. Shrimp Scampi.


Especially preceded by a mesclun mix salad.


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## josephmartins (Nov 16, 2010)

First, I love this thread.  Incredibly insightful. I've been researching public opinions of words/terms used when marketing food products and services.

What fascinates me most is our reluctance to admit that the words we claim to dislike do influence our opinions and decisions. The words may seem silly, superficial or redundant, but they're influential on some level within our minds. That's the magic and evil of marketing...a field we love to hate.

It reminds me of the Malcolm Gladwell presentation in which he talks about coffee (and spaghetti sauce). Americans, when surveyed, typically claim to want a "dark, rich, hearty roast." But as Mr. Gladwell explained, research data shows that only 25-27% of people really want a "dark, rich, hearty roast". The majority actually prefers milky weak coffee - though few people will admit it. What we say we want (to eat, read, hear, see, etc.) is often not in alignment with what we actually choose to eat, read, view and listen to.

We might believe using the word "fresh" is silly. After all, we reason, what is the alternative? Spoiled? Overripe? Rotten?  We can be certain that a multimillion dollar Subway "Eat Fresh" campaign is backed by research that shows the positive impact of the word "fresh" on purchasing decisions. Try as we might to decry the use of such words, they do influence our behavior in ways that we might never admit, nor fully comprehend.

In any case, I'll be watching this thread with great interest.  Thank you all for sharing.


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

Let me put it this way. A little over a week ago I ate in a college dormitory cafeteria. Classic style: hot stuff in steamer trays, open salad bar with sneeze guard, drink dispensers, pick up your tray and dishes and silverware as you come in, that stuff. Everything was labeled. One station had pizza, and the sign said, "Our signature crust topped with...." Give me a break already!

I think the word "signature" makes sense in precisely one context: celebrity chefs and their restaurants. When people go, let's say, to Ming Tsai's Blue Ginger restaurant, a lot of them want to get Ming's "signature" dishes. But what in fact does this mean? Does it mean that the other dishes on the menu are not up to Chef Tsai's standards? In his case, at least, no --- for a celebrity chef, he is remarkably hands-on and deeply involved in his restaurant. (I've eaten there four times and every time he was working in the open kitchen with his people.) What "signature" means here is simply "you're looking for the celebrity chef experience, and here is a dish this celebrity developed for this restaurant and has kept on the menu a long time, so we recommend that dish for you."

The problem is that I don't like the whole celebrity chef thing. I mean, I don't mind a chef being famous and lauded, but the "celebrity chef" shtick irritates me. Call me old-fashioned, but I think the chef should be famous and lauded if his restaurant is consistently spectacular, not because he appears on TV. And I think a truly great chef is one who can train his people so well that there is no difference between a dish made entirely by the chef and one made by one of his cooks.

[Edited to add...]

An important negative dimension of "signature" for me is the way it pivots gastronomy on the question of novelty as opposed to tedium. Not so long ago, if you went to a top-notch French restaurant, what was on the menu was entirely as expected. Novelty was not really on offer. If you ordered _tournedos Rossini_, you got that dish, executed brilliantly, and you would have been shocked if there had been some novel alteration made. After all, if there had been such a change, the dish wouldn't be _tournedos Rossini_ any longer. In a great deal of contemporary American restaurant culture, however, there is a notion that anything that is not new and different, to which the chef hasn't added his own personal alternative style and spin, is just boring. In part, what "signature dish" means is this: "unlike some other dishes on this menu, this is something in which the chef has expressed his personal style very strongly, to create a novel dish that speaks of who he is." I can only take this kind of thing remotely seriously when the chef in question is very, very good. Thus my reference before to Paul Bocuse's truffle soup: the man did invent this dish, and he deserves credit for it --- but very few chefs are Paul Bocuse. I think that there is now this drive to create, to be new and different, and that this drive is strongly instantiated in this term "signature dish." I would rather focus on brilliance of execution than on novel creation, and I think a good deal of the celebrity chef thing is based on telling diners that novelty is ipso facto a good thing --- and this often allows the restaurant to cover up weak execution.

Consider sushi restaurants. I don't know about the rest of the country, but I can tell you that in New England and at least to some degree New York a sushi menu will normally have a long list of "special" maki and usually at least a few "signature" maki. These things are, with few exceptions, complex concoctions of a wide range of ingredients. One of the things I learned in Japan is how fundamentally odd this is in terms of Japanese gastronomy: what makes good sushi or sashimi is its utter purity, the way you can't hide weaknesses. If the fish is fabulous and excellently cut, and the ponzu or shoyu and wasabi are of superlative quality, it's good. Many people can evaluate whether the sushi rice is good and the nigiri well-formed; I can't, but that's because I don't like it and normally order sashimi instead. If you pile up 18 ingredients together, you can get away with murder: how is anyone going to know if the fish is really all that good? That's fine if it's the intent --- if you're knocking together cheap maki rolls for on-the-dash dining, you want to use inexpensive scraps and do everything you can to obscure the quality so it's not unpalatable. But the idea of slamming together mounds of dramatically contrasting ingredients and using this as a selling point strongly suggests that your customers don't know the difference between okay fish and great fish. And yet, you'll constantly see in sushi restaurant reviews that the reviewer will harp on the exciting, novel combinations in the signature maki, and note only in passing that, yes, the ordinary standards are good too. Here the whole conception of novelty --- and celebrity, too, if you think about the way "creative" sushi gets located in the hot celebrity world --- undermines quality and taste, and "signature" becomes a constant sign of this effect.

[end edit]

So my problem with "signature" is twofold. On the one hand, it is grossly overused, to the point that all it means is "we don't think this sucks." On the other hand, it encourages people to select their food based on fame and publicity, and in many cases also to do so without regard for things like seasonality: if a dish is always on the menu, it's not seasonal, by definition --- not that all dishes must be seasonal, but I don't like anything that encourages people to think seasonality is irrelevant or a matter of pure hype (which all too often it is, of course).

I should note that I do not fault Chef Tsai for using the term. He's got a business to run, and he does a very good job of it. Part of his customer base -- a significant part -- is people attracted by his celebrity status, and they expect menus that cater to their celebrity-chef expectations. As it happens, I also like at least one of his "signature" dishes, a soup with foie gras shu mai. It's the term I object to, and I only single out Ming Tsai because I have absolutely no other objections to the man and his work.



KYHeirloomer said:


> Chris,
> 
> Could you expand on your objection to "signature?" I agree that it's overused, and nondescriptive. But I don't understand what your trying to say.


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## tylerm713 (Aug 6, 2010)

I'm going to change gears and go not with words themselves, but the pronunciation of them. Pecan is pronounced puh-con. Not pee-can. Praline is pronounced prah-leen. Not pray-leen. So when I hear someone on TV say "Pee-can pray-leen", I just want to hit something.


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## chefbazookas (Oct 11, 2010)

tylerm713 said:


> I'm going to change gears and go not with words themselves, but the pronunciation of them. Pecan is pronounced puh-con. Not pee-can. Praline is pronounced prah-leen. Not pray-leen. So when I hear someone on TV say "Pee-can pray-leen", I just want to hit something.


You'd be hard pressed to find someone around here who pronounces them the way you do. Merriam-Webster lists three acceptable pronunciations to your one for 'pecan'; pee-can, puh-con and pi-con. I'm sure if you heard the Illini pronounce it you might have to change your notion altogether, as that's partially where the word came from.

The same goes for 'praline'. M-W gives three acceptable versions; prah-leen, pray-leen and praw-leen. This supposedly stems from the French Marshal Duplessis-Praslin's cook who is said to have invented it.

I may be annoyed with the way people pronounce some things, but I'd have a hard time 'proving' which is definitively correct.


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## tylerm713 (Aug 6, 2010)

ChefBazookas said:


> tylerm713 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to change gears and go not with words themselves, but the pronunciation of them. Pecan is pronounced puh-con. Not pee-can. Praline is pronounced prah-leen. Not pray-leen. So when I hear someone on TV say "Pee-can pray-leen", I just want to hit something.
> ...


That's what this thread is about. What annoys you, not what's correct and what isn't. I get annoyed when people say "pee-can" or "pray-leen".


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## chefbazookas (Oct 11, 2010)

_Pecan is pronounced puh-con. Not pee-can. Praline is pronounced prah-leen. Not pray-leen. _

It sounds here like you're saying, 'It's pronounced this way, not another way'.

In any event, I also get annoyed by pronunciations. Mostly when people are trying to be...authentic...in pronouncing something when they clearly don't speak the language any other time. For example, the word bruschetta.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Well, when I was "in the business", we grew "almonds" (al-monds) but sold "ammonds" (am-monds) because we shook the "L" out of them to get them off the tree /img/vbsmilies/smilies/laser.gif


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

''The Catch of the day'', when it is in most cases Frozen    WHAT DAY?

''Daily Chefs Special''    Something they want to get rid of.

"Imported'    Sure from Brooklyn

'Organic'       But farm next door uses insecticides and nourishes water


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## tylerm713 (Aug 6, 2010)

PeteMcCracken said:


> Well, when I was "in the business", we grew "almonds" (al-monds) but sold "ammonds" (am-monds) because we shook the "L" out of them to get them off the tree /img/vbsmilies/smilies/laser.gif


Well played, sir.

ChefBazookas, it did sound like I was trying to say one way is correct over another. I guess it just bothers me to hear. Anway, I'm with you on "authentic" pronunciations. I think that's one of the things that bothers me about Giada. She says everything with an American accent, but when it comes to an Italian word, she has to over-emphasize the Italian accent. It makes her sound even less authentic to me. I also find it funny when people think they are saying something the "authentic" way, when in fact, it's completely wrong. Case in point, I don't think I've ever heard someone from New Orleans say "Nawlins".


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## chefbazookas (Oct 11, 2010)

_Case in point, I don't think I've ever heard someone from New Orleans say "Nawlins"._

Me, either! I was just thinking that the other day when I was watching a program (I believe it was actually _Pit Bulls and Parolees_) and a New Orleans man told the PB&P folks he was glad they were in New Orleans. The man had a thick LA accent and when he said 'New Orleans' it sounded nothing like 'Nawlins'. Quite a few years back Crapplebee's had a 'Nawlins' promo and the commercials made me want to spew chunks.


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## tylerm713 (Aug 6, 2010)

ChefBazookas said:


> Quite a few years back Crapplebee's had a 'Nawlins' promo and the commercials made me want to spew chunks.


The same could probably have been said about the food as well.

Most people from New Orleans that I know say "Noo Ahlins". Many from the west part of town (Kenner, River Ridge) simply say "Noo Orlins". I find that I say the former.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

Housemade.

And not because I think it isn't. I assume you're not lying to me.

Because when I see or hear that phrase it always makes me wonder about the food WITHOUT that description.

When I started at the new joint, I would watch the cooks write their specials on the board and inevitably they would use that phrase to describe something in the dish; pesto, ravioli, etc.

So I wrote up a special using Housemade to describe each and every component in my special. I think I used the phrase 6 times.

No one does it anymore.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

In more ways than one, Giada seems to me to be the _ne plus ultra_ of inauthenticity.

BDL


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

KYHeirloomer said:


> For other foods there are no consistent rules or standards. So, when you see terms like "organic chicken," it is meaningless. "Organic," in that usage, means whatever the seller wants it to mean.


Not sure why you say that? Organic livestock should be raised in accordance with the Organic Foods Production Act and the Title 7, Part 205 of the Code of Federal Regulations. Both describe many regulations. One of the main regulations is that organic livestock should only get organic feed. That alone makes organic chicken quite different from conventional chicken.

_The producer of an organic livestock operation must provide livestock with a total feed ration composed of agricultural products, including pasture and forage, that are organically produced (...)_

Source: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...8&view=text&node=7:3.1.1.9.32.3.354.11&idno=7


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

tylerm713 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> ChefBazookas said:
> ...


There was a brilliant remark in an old Simpsons episode: Homer groans, "I'm so hungry I could eat at Applebee's!"


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

Quote:


boar_d_laze said:


> In more ways than one, Giada seems to me to be the _ne plus ultra_ of inauthenticity.
> 
> BDL


Gee, that's a heck of a competition. Now, you rotter, you have me thinking about whether there is anyone less authentic in the food world....


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

I don't know if she is or isn't. But I bet you won't find anyone who pronounces "pasta" as many different ways as she does.


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## byrdie (Nov 24, 2010)

I was just about to post these two words "perfection" and "fresh"... Until I saw previous post.. Still I can't resist to add on... so,



Jim said:


> "Grilled to perfection" - That is one tired phrase!
> 
> And "fresh" modifying ANY noun! Fresh Tomatoes... as opposed to old, nasty, mold-laden puddles of juice?! Gahhh!!


I love 'grilled to perfection'! It lets me know that all fried food isn't 'fried to perfection', or sauteed items, 'sauteed to perfection',and so on... only the grilled.. why is that??

I used to tell my wife 'fresh fish' in Korea meant that they are alive not thawed fish with freezer burn.


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## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

[quote name="ChrisLehrer" url="/forum/thread/62937/food-words-and-expressions-i-don-t-like-because-i-m-old-and-cranky/90#post_332345"]
Quote:



> Now, you rotter, you have me thinking about whether there is anyone less authentic in the food world....


Ronald McDonald?

[/quote]


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## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

Hand cut fries - If you really are talking about a person with a knife in one hand and a potato in the other, than yes, you have hand cut fries.

mjb.


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## iplaywithfire (Jul 5, 2010)

I have way too many peeves to list, or maybe I'm just in a bad mood right now, so I'll restrain myself until the wine kicks in.

(with one exception, of course) 

All of the talk about the use of the word "fresh" reminded me of an industry standard phrase that I see daily and despise all the more for it: "Fresh Frozen".  It just always strikes me as teetering to the side of oxymoron.  Hopefully one of these days it won't make me cringe anymore, since I'd rather see it than not see it, or any other description of how it was frozen.


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## gobblygook (Aug 26, 2010)

I've considered toying around with a "chef's special" which would be a dish not normally served, with ingredients purchased for that specific purpose.  An example would be a lamb dish, in a restaurant that doesn't normally serve lamb.  In such instances, it's not "oh crap, I have too much x and need to push it" but rather a true special dish for that day.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Caramel

Three syllables, right?

Care - A - Mel

Then why the (deleted) does everyone pronounce it "Carmel" (car-muhl)?

Some sickly wine commercial from the 80's plugging Mt Carmel wine?

Or does the media now pronounce it so ?

Tripping off my soap box now..........


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## cook-e (Jun 23, 2010)

*BAM! *That one got old REALLY quick. _That's up there with Yum-O. _

And as a customer, I want to roll my eyes (but don't) when the waiter tells me his favorite dish on the menu. Huh?? And why is that important to me?

Great thread!!


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## iplaywithfire (Jul 5, 2010)

foodpump said:


> Caramel
> 
> Three syllables, right?
> 
> ...


*chuckles* I posted on the same topic in another thread right before I read this. Hopefully someone in the world has an answer, and hopefully I will find it someday.


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## gunnar (Apr 3, 2008)

Maybe they are just confusing Caramel with a caramelized sauce that is also made in Carmel, CA?/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Although technically it should be Carmel-by-the-Sea sauce/img/vbsmilies/smilies/tongue.gif


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

this isn't a food term i hate, just thought you might enjoy this... a sign in the local country grocery store( and that's a stretch) here at the end of the world reads.... fresh meats, vegetables and livestock supplies...that's just where i like to find my fresh food.. right next to the livestock supply!...happy trails!

joey


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## allie (Jul 21, 2006)

tylerm713 said:


> I'm going to change gears and go not with words themselves, but the pronunciation of them. Pecan is pronounced puh-con. Not pee-can. Praline is pronounced prah-leen. Not pray-leen. So when I hear someone on TV say "Pee-can pray-leen", I just want to hit something.


I have to comment that pecan is one of those words that is pronounced differently depending on the region of the US where you hear it. I pronounce it "pee-can" because in south Georgia where I grew up and lived for 24 years, that is how it was said. In Indiana, people said pee-cahn. My friend in PA says it peck-an, emphasis on peck. Praline was always pronounced pray-leen where I grew up and I don't recall ever hearing it said prah-leen. Hearing it pronounced pe-cahn is annoying to me because it's foreign to my ears, same as prah-leen. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif

As far as all the yawls coming out of Paula Deen's mouth, I do not and have not ever spoken like that. Now if I am saying the plural, "you all", yes it is "y'all". However, I never use "y'all" as a singular pronoun. Again, that's how it is in the region of the country where I grew up and it's not much different here in Virginia where I live now. I don't use honey, sugar, and all that unless I'm joking around or being sarcastic and that is only with friends. However, "yes sir, no ma'am" is part of how I was raised so I do say it to those who are older than me or in some sort of authority or as a way of being polite to strangers.

I don't like overly descriptive menus either. However, in some cases, I wish some menus had better descriptions on them. I don't want some flowery, overdone description but in the case of a Mexican restaurant near me, I would like a bit more details of what their entrees include. I love their food but have been hesitant to try new dishes because I am not sure what all is in them. Some of the waitstaff converse in English well but others do not and my Spanish hasn't been used in over 15 years.


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## alexlewis (Oct 25, 2010)

tylerm713 said:


> According to Merriam Webster - crunk: *:* a style of Southern rap music featuring repetitive chants and rapid dance rhythms


Where I'm from crunk means to get drunk in gangster/rapper speak


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## tylerm713 (Aug 6, 2010)

In and around New Orleans, it's always prah-leen. I understand regional differences. Still doesn't change the fact that certain pronunciations annoy me.


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

Prah leen, here in the UK.  Maybe because of our proximity to France.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Prah leen, pray leen, no big deal. Where I was bread and buttered they just called it peanut brittle. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

_Now if I am saying the plural, "you all", yes it is "y'all". _

Putting aside Paula's (and the even more irritating Neelys') phony overuse, Allie, I don't know exactly where you were raised up. But in most of the South, "y'all" is, indeed, the singular form. The plural is "all y'all." And, while you may not use them yourself (which suggests to me that you're city bred), to suggest that honey, sweetheart, and darlin' are not commonplaces in the South, particularly the mountain South, is just naive.


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Ishbel, do you pronounce Berkshire, Bark-shire?  I have always said Berk- shire

   A friend of mine has recently had a few business meetings in London and that's what one of the English gentlemen had told him.

     dan


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Ishbel said:


> Prah leen, here in the UK. Maybe because of our proximity to France.


Yes, we do say Prah-leen in France.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Once worked with  Texan who insisted that "pee-can" was "what you went into the bathroom in",  and that the nut was pronounced " P' Cahn".

But a question for all you southern  folks: In which  States does the pecan tree grow?  And is "pecan" a native Indian word?


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

IIRC, Georgia and Texas are the largest producers of pecans. But the tree grows in many parts of the South and Southwest.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

KYHeirloomer said:


> IIRC, Georgia and Texas are the largest producers of pecans. But the tree grows in many parts of the South and Southwest.


And the West, the San Joaquin Valley has numerous commercial Pecan orchards


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

gonefishin said:


> Ishbel, do you pronounce Berkshire, Bark-shire? I have always said Berk- shire
> 
> A friend of mine has recently had a few business meetings in London and that's what one of the English gentlemen had told him.
> 
> dan


Yes, it's Barksheer or Barkshah!

A few of the other pitfalls for foreigners include Leicester (pronounced Lester), Beauchamp (Beecham), Leominster (Lemster), Worcester (Wooster) and in surnames: Menzies is pronounced Ming(as in sing)-us, Gilzean is Gillan, Cholmondley is Chumlee and Marjoribanks is Marshbanks!


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## tylerm713 (Aug 6, 2010)

The pecan is native to the South and Midwest, and the scientific name for it (Carya illinoinensis) evidences the fact that some still call them Illinois nuts.

And KY, pralines and brittle are definitely not the same thing. At all.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Ooo, don't forget that river near London, you know, the "Tems", spelled Thames /img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif



Ishbel said:


> gonefishin said:
> 
> 
> > Ishbel, do you pronounce Berkshire, Bark-shire? I have always said Berk- shire
> ...


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## highlander01 (Apr 30, 2010)

Given I am from east Tn I have to go with Food Pump's Texan's definition a "pee-can" is something you would pee in and the word pecan is pronounced like the letter "P" followed by cahn.

But you also have to remember that the Tn. and Tx. accents are very similar also note that some of our families were cut off for a long time back in the day due to traveling difficulties and some of use still use some of the old english language terms such as ye and various others, and yes I do say y'all as well as (and I'm gonna catch hell for this one) yuns as in "Are yuns comin er not!!" if meaning more than one person, if it's only one person I would probably say "Are ye comin er not?"

But that's just me /img/vbsmilies/smilies/rollsmile.gif


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

PeteMcCracken said:


> Ooo, don't forget that river near London, you know, the "Tems", spelled Thames /img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif

Thanks for sharing. I'll try and work on those...

dan


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

Or...... what about Milngavie, Glasgow, prounced Mull gy?!

Or....

Or..

We could spend hours, here, Pete!



PeteMcCracken said:


> Ooo, don't forget that river near London, you know, the "Tems", spelled Thames /img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

_But that's just me _

And several millions of other folk, Highlander.

Unfortunately, many urban southerners think their native tongue is rustic and unsophisticated and are making an effort to do away with it. Personally, I don't understand anyone who looks down their nose at their own roots---linguistic or otherwise. But it's an observable fact that they do.

It's a shame, too, that the joint influences of television and tourism are quickly destroying regional dialects and idioms. Indeed, as little as 25 years ago, in places like the Outer Banks and the Georgia Sea Islands, you could still find people who spoke in pure Elizabetean form. Alas, no longer.

Soon enough we'll all be talking with the flat, uninflected tones of TV newscasters. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/frown.gif


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## american_suisse (Mar 9, 2007)

Any recipe that has the term "preheat the oven" drives me nuts.


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

speaking of cooking terms in recipes that incite...how about, whisk in a BOWL....

joey


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## allie (Jul 21, 2006)

I grew up in rural southeast Georgia.....in Vidalia onion country. I attended a rural county high school in what was considered a poverty county where my graduating class had 75 students and it was predominantly a farming community with no industry. Until I heard it on tv, I never head "y'all" used as a singular pronoun, only as a plural. Even here where I live in southside Virginia, I don't hear "y'all" as a singular. I never spent much time in the mountain south so can't speak for those areas, only rural southeastern Georgia where I lived for my first 24 years.



KYHeirloomer said:


> Prah leen, pray leen, no big deal. Where I was bread and buttered they just called it peanut brittle. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif
> 
> _Now if I am saying the plural, "you all", yes it is "y'all". _
> 
> Putting aside Paula's (and the even more irritating Neelys') phony overuse, Allie, I don't know exactly where you were raised up. But in most of the South, "y'all" is, indeed, the singular form. The plural is "all y'all." And, while you may not use them yourself (which suggests to me that you're city bred), to suggest that honey, sweetheart, and darlin' are not commonplaces in the South, particularly the mountain South, is just naive.


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## highlander01 (Apr 30, 2010)

KYHeirloomer said:


> _But that's just me _
> 
> And several millions of other folk, Highlander.
> 
> ...


And to me that's a down right crying shame, I have noticed that my son's accent is nothing like my own and I have no problem with my heritage and anyone that thinks my accent sounds funny or "unsophisticated" can kiss my rump, I actually had a guy from Boston make fun of my accent one time ..... Are you frickin kidding me!!!!.

I'm sorry but to me the Boston accent is a very thick accent just as much if not more than the southern/appalachian accent.

And if I ever start talking like a newscaster I just hope and pray that someone just f**king shoots me in the head.

It's kinda funny but I had a roommate in the Army see me writing a letter one day and he actually told me that he was amazed at how well I was writing the letter ... apparently he thought that just because I speak with a southern/appalachian accent that I would write that way also, the same guy also met a friend of mine that I went to high school with and he looks at my friend and then looks at me and he's like "you two don't sound anything alike accent wise" or something along those lines, which just proves that you can live not even 20 miles away from someone and have very different accents ... it all depends on where your family is from and how much exposure you have had to the world.


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

All regional accents have their fans.  I have a very 'Jean Brodie' type of Scots accent, as opposed to Billy Connolly (who comes from Glasgow).  My view?  Bask in the 'differences'!


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## tylerm713 (Aug 6, 2010)

Since we're on the subject of regional accents, here's something that bothers me (but isn't food related). I don't like when people assume that since I'm from Louisiana, I talk like someone from "don da bah-o" ("down the bayou" - translation: South Louisiana). Or when you have a character in a movie from Louisiana or somewhere else in the deep South, and they are protrayed with a Charleston drawl. No one west of Georgia sounds like that. But I guess it's been romanticized by the movies.


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## chefbazookas (Oct 11, 2010)

_And is "pecan" a native Indian word? _

'Pecan' does derive from an Algonquin word spelled in English as 'paccan' which is a word referring to a nut that needed to be cracked open with a stone. The Algonquins were a large semi-nomadic North American tribe which occupied much of what is now Tennessee and North Carolina. Born of this group were also tribes such as Blackfoot, Mahican, Delaware, Shawnee, Cree, Ojibwa, Wampanoag, Cheyenne, the Illinois Confederacy and several more.


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

Quote:


gobblygook said:


> I've considered toying around with a "chef's special" which would be a dish not normally served, with ingredients purchased for that specific purpose. An example would be a lamb dish, in a restaurant that doesn't normally serve lamb. In such instances, it's not "oh crap, I have too much x and need to push it" but rather a true special dish for that day.


Now I, by contrast, would like to see the reverse. A couple of years ago a chef friend and I were drinking and talking (and drinking), and we decided it would be great if in your little local corner restaurant you had two blackboards, one labeled "today's specials" and the other "yesterday's leftovers." The latter board would have what usually appears on specials menus, at really drastically reduced prices: honesty in advertising. The former would be stuff the chef thought of this morning and which he or she cooks with his or her own hands. I've never seen anyone actually do it, of course.


> Originally Posted by *Ishbel*
> 
> Yes, it's Barksheer or Barkshah!
> 
> A few of the other pitfalls for foreigners include Leicester (pronounced Lester), Beauchamp (Beecham), Leominster (Lemster), Worcester (Wooster) and in surnames: Menzies is pronounced Ming(as in sing)-us, Gilzean is Gillan, Cholmondley is Chumlee and Marjoribanks is Marshbanks!


A few years ago, a local Boston TV news crew put together one of those tedious ads they all do: watch us, we're local, we know what's going on, you trust us, blah blah blah. But these guys were actually funny. They spent weeks filming little snippets of themselves standing in front of signs with place names, pronouncing them. The thing is, we've got a lot of those same ones you've got in the UK, and some of our own: Worcester (wooster), Leominster (lehminster), Quincy (quinzee), Gloucester (gloster), Billerica (bil'rika)....

So the commercial goes, "Watch channel X news --- we're local!" And then quick shots of the reporters standing there in front of the signs, saying things like, "wor-ses-ter," "lee-oh-minster," "quin'see," "glao-ses-ter," "bill-EH-rika".... Great ad. If you're not from around here, you'd never know anything was odd about it, but if you are (and have half a brain) it's hysterical.

Oh -- a note on "fresh frozen." Presumably the other possibility is that they waited until it was getting a little dubious, then froze it. Yum-O!


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

Ummm.....



Highlander01 said:


> And to me that's a down right crying shame, I have noticed that my son's accent is nothing like my own and I have no problem with my heritage and anyone that thinks my accent sounds funny or "unsophisticated" can kiss my rump, I actually had a guy from Boston make fun of my accent one time ..... Are you frickin kidding me!!!!.
> I'm sorry but to me the Boston accent is a very thick accent just as much if not more than the southern/appalachian accent.


First of all, the so-called Boston accent isn't an accent, thick or otherwise. It's everyone else who has an accent -- we speak proper English.

Second, a case in point. My friend Sean, who's from Colorado, came to visit us here in Quincy, on the South Shore, just south of Boston. Very working-class neighborhood, with the real Boston accent, not that fake cr*p you heard on Cheers. We had to be out when he arrived, so we told him we'd leave the key with the neighbor --- well, long story, the point is that he asked my neighbor Steve about the keys, and Steve said, "Ahm, I think they praubably left it with Bahb." (Best I can do to transcribe the real thing.) Sean says, "okay, where does Bob live?" Steve looks at him like he's nuts and says, "No, not Baub, BAHB!" (Translation: not Bob, Barb!)

Every real Bostonian was ticked off when the T (the transportation system) decided to name the new little cards you use to get around (instead of cash) the "Charlie Card," after the stupid old song "Charlie on the MTA." We all wanted it to have a picture of a codfish and be called the "Cod." This was seriously proposed, and voted most popular, but the T people have no sense of humor and thought it was undignified or something. Idiots.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

I am originally from  Brooklyn NY and I sound like it .To top that off I am proud of it.


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

Chris

'OUR' Billericay is pronounced 'Billeric AYYYY'!

As for the Bastan accent not being an accent but correct 'English'? BWAAAAAAAA!

Ask anyone in the UK (according to the BBC) and the 'correctest' English is spoken in Inverness...! (Where we all thought they spoke Auld Scots or Lallans!)/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif


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## allium (Dec 8, 2010)

"Foodie." Don't know who thought it was a good idea to refer to connoisseurs, aficionados, or gourmands as some sort of cutesy diminutive. Given, the aforementioned terms sound unbelievably pretentious; all things considered, I like calling myself a food snob.


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

Chef BDL,

great thread !

This may not matter to anyone but when I hear it or read it, well it just drives me nuts : " *New and Improved*"....Why ? What was wrong with the "other " way ? And why is it when I taste it there is nothing different ?

It is a conspiracy !!!!!!!!!!!!!

( @ @ )

---ooOoo--(__)---ooOoo---


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Chef Petals,

Thanks beaucoup!

BDL


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

I love dog and cat food when it says '''New Improved Flavor Taste Better''''  WHO TASTE IT  ??? and who is the authority on it ?


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## tylerm713 (Aug 6, 2010)

I got a kick out of the commercials a while back that said something about McDonald's chicken nuggets being "Now made with 100% chicken". So what were they made from......scratch that. I don't want to know.


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## agchief (May 30, 2010)

I have always thought that accents, (both domestic and otherwise) are the spice to the English (and American) language. I grew up in California...most of the family are in Texas and I'm married to a New Englander...I spent years in Europe...no getting away from regional accents...I just enjoy them as a "flavorings".


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## gobblygook (Aug 26, 2010)

It's the self-proclaimed "foodies" that I don't get. I don't mind the pretentious terms, but "foodie" sounds like "groupie". To me, "foodie" sounds like a derogatory term you would call someone. However, "food snob" (the way I use it) would seem to describe someone who THINKS he knows what he's talking about, but doesn't. I think of the person who is trying to be something he's not. The "judges" on Iron Chef America seem to be mostly "food snobs" (as I describe the phrase).



Allium said:


> "Foodie." Don't know who thought it was a good idea to refer to connoisseurs, aficionados, or gourmands as some sort of cutesy diminutive. Given, the aforementioned terms sound unbelievably pretentious; all things considered, I like calling myself a food snob.


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

Calvin Trillin doesn't like "foodie" -- or foodies. He prefers to term himself a "food crazy." I like that.


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## tylerm713 (Aug 6, 2010)

I've always thought that "foodie" was kind of a wierd word. I've used it before, but I typically refer to myself as someone who "just likes good food".


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

As a matter of fact, "foodie" is a contraction---or is it maybe dimunitive? Anyway, it stems from "food junky." (Astounding the bits of trivia that stick in one's mind, ain't it.)

Personally, I prefer either of those terms to "food crazy" as a noun. Even "food freak" is more appealing to me as a self-description.

_The "judges" on Iron Chef America seem to be mostly "food snobs" (as I describe the phrase). _

I suspect, Gobblygook, this reflects more on your unfamiliarity with the judges then with reality. Wasn't it you who thought Eric Ripart was a snob, because you didn't know who he was?

Let's see, off the top of my head, here are some of the people---regular judges all---who, according to your definition, are pretending to know more about food than they do:

Geoffrey Steingarten: Food editor for Vogue; book author; international food lecturer.

Donatella Arpia: Restaurant developer; chef; consultant; cookbook author.

Kareem Bartom (sp?): Public relations and marketing consultant specializing in culinary matters.

Andrew Knowlton: Food & restaurant critic for Bon Appetite.


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## mustaroad (May 15, 2010)

I'm just a pizza boy but Foodie & Food Crazy seem to epitomize a mad burger jockey. This is where art meets engineering people. *No offence to food crazies and foodies out there. (does anyone consider _themselves_ a foodie?)


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

As Trillin uses the term, a food crazy is not a snob. A food crazy is the sort of person who likes to get into arguments with other food crazies about which place in Chicago's Pilsen district serves the best fish taco -- and to agree that an argument like this cannot be held properly without actually sampling the goods during the argument. Food crazies gather at local fried chicken shacks where it's known that on Thursdays Mamma Q oversees the cooking. Food crazies are the ones deeply depressed by the way mass-marketing of barbecue competitions has undermined local outdoor cooking traditions, and they console themselves by eating more barbecue. A food crazy is a white-collar professional in Louisiana who closes the office on days when the crawfish are just running across the road.


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## bazza (Apr 2, 2007)

Most of these buzzwords and terms are used for marketing purposes, some bother me, some don't. The one that surfaced a few years ago that really bothers me is "superfoods". Does that mean they will taste super, or if I eat it them they will make me feel super? There is nothing super about broccoli or blueberries.


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## gunnar (Apr 3, 2008)

Bazza said:


> Most of these buzzwords and terms are used for marketing purposes, some bother me, some don't. The one that surfaced a few years ago that really bothers me is "superfoods". Does that mean they will taste super, or if I eat it them they will make me feel super? There is nothing super about broccoli or blueberries.


I disagree...blueberries can leave a super stain. They also just taste great.


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## bazza (Apr 2, 2007)

Ha ha yes they make super muffins too...


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## gobblygook (Aug 26, 2010)

Yep, that's me. I like the parts on ICA when they tell who the judge is and gives some sort of credentials. However, there seem to be some folks that make it as judges simply because they're famous. I've seen actors and singers on there. I want someone as a judge who knows more about food than "I know what I like". I guess the difference is that I accept I have no business being a culinary judge and wish others who also have no business being one would also accept that .

On the subject of KB, I saw an episode from 2005 and she has made some drastic changes to her appearance (I'm not insinuating surgery, just healthier eating habits). I've always considered her attractive from the more recent episodes, but kudos to her on making whatever changes she's made. (Not that it matters, but I'm "morbidly obese" -- I hate that phrase, so I'm really not saying anything negative about her, I'm simply remarking on her making changes that really look nice).



KYHeirloomer said:


> I suspect, Gobblygook, this reflects more on your unfamiliarity with the judges then with reality. Wasn't it you who thought Eric Ripart was a snob, because you didn't know who he was?
> 
> Let's see, off the top of my head, here are some of the people---regular judges all---who, according to your definition, are pretending to know more about food than they do:
> 
> ...


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

_However, there seem to be some folks that make it as judges simply because they're famous._

I'm sure there's some truth to that. But don't discount somebody's knowledge just because they're 1. a celebrity, and 2. not part of the industry. Most of the non-cooking people are celebrities, it's true. But many of them are also serious at-home cooks. And they're almost all foodies, who spend more time in upscale restaurants in a month then most of us do in our lifetimes. It's very rare, at least in the shows I've seen, where they don't know about food in addition to wherever their primary noteriety lies.

You ever watch the Today show? Pay attention to the cooking segments, and who hosts them. It's very apparent which of the staff knows food and which doesn't. Now think about which of them has appeared as a judge on ICA.


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## wa hunter (Dec 17, 2010)

Oh, really. see

http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/nop

In addition some states have organic certification programs. Inspection is pretty rigorous as are the rules. My brain tells me most of the whole organic fad is perception. Plants cannot tell the difference between nitrate from animal waste and that from urea (which soil bacteria transform to nitrate), or ammonium nitrate.

As far as I'm concerned free range chickens are running around the farmyard picking up what didn't get used by the cow or horse. Now I know that is not economically feasible but it sounds nice.

I harvest true free range venison, no antibiotics, growth promoters, etc: same for an occasional grouse or rabbit.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Hi, Wa Hunter. Welcome to Cheftalk.

One word of helpful advice. If you're going to respond to older posts it's a good idea to do some cut & pasting, so that we more easily know what you're referring to. For instance, the discussion about organic on this thread took place a month ago. Not exactly on the top of anyone's mind.

But, being as you brought it up.

The federal organic certification program applies to produce only. There are no national standards, in the U.S., regarding livestock. So when a producer talks about organically grown beef, for instance, it's a marketing term, nothing more. Same goes for terms such as "range fed," "natural," and so forth.

Yes there are some states whose organic programs are more stringent than the federal program. California and Oregon are most noteable among them. In fact, Oregon Tilth is probably the toughest program in the country, and many of us hoped, when talk of a federal program first emerged, that it would be used as the model. Alas, the factory farms all but wrote the regs, so they're considerably watered down from there.

On your other point, you're correct. Vegetable plants require 16 nutrients, 3 majors and the rest in minor quantities. So long as those nutrients are in soluble form, the plant doesn't care whether they come from manure or from Monsanto. But organic growing is more a matter of one's orientation to the land. True organic growers see themselves as stewards of the soil, rather than exploiters of it. Their basic axiom: If you want to grow good plants, grow good soil. The organics divisions of the factory farms have a totally different viewpoint.


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## paul palumbo (Jan 2, 2011)

Well said, well written and right on.

Let me put it this way. A little over a week ago I ate in a college dormitory cafeteria. Classic style: hot stuff in steamer trays, open salad bar with sneeze guard, drink dispensers, pick up your tray and dishes and silverware as you come in, that stuff. Everything was labeled. One station had pizza, and the sign said, "Our signature crust topped with...." Give me a break already!

I think the word "signature" makes sense in precisely one context: celebrity chefs and their restaurants. When people go, let's say, to Ming Tsai's Blue Ginger restaurant, a lot of them want to get Ming's "signature" dishes. But what in fact does this mean? Does it mean that the other dishes on the menu are not up to Chef Tsai's standards? In his case, at least, no --- for a celebrity chef, he is remarkably hands-on and deeply involved in his restaurant. (I've eaten there four times and every time he was working in the open kitchen with his people.) What "signature" means here is simply "you're looking for the celebrity chef experience, and here is a dish this celebrity developed for this restaurant and has kept on the menu a long time, so we recommend that dish for you."

The problem is that I don't like the whole celebrity chef thing. I mean, I don't mind a chef being famous and lauded, but the "celebrity chef" shtick irritates me. Call me old-fashioned, but I think the chef should be famous and lauded if his restaurant is consistently spectacular, not because he appears on TV. And I think a truly great chef is one who can train his people so well that there is no difference between a dish made entirely by the chef and one made by one of his cooks.

[Edited to add...]

An important negative dimension of "signature" for me is the way it pivots gastronomy on the question of novelty as opposed to tedium. Not so long ago, if you went to a top-notch French restaurant, what was on the menu was entirely as expected. Novelty was not really on offer. If you ordered _tournedos Rossini_, you got that dish, executed brilliantly, and you would have been shocked if there had been some novel alteration made. After all, if there had been such a change, the dish wouldn't be _tournedos Rossini_ any longer. In a great deal of contemporary American restaurant culture, however, there is a notion that anything that is not new and different, to which the chef hasn't added his own personal alternative style and spin, is just boring. In part, what "signature dish" means is this: "unlike some other dishes on this menu, this is something in which the chef has expressed his personal style very strongly, to create a novel dish that speaks of who he is." I can only take this kind of thing remotely seriously when the chef in question is very, very good. Thus my reference before to Paul Bocuse's truffle soup: the man did invent this dish, and he deserves credit for it --- but very few chefs are Paul Bocuse. I think that there is now this drive to create, to be new and different, and that this drive is strongly instantiated in this term "signature dish." I would rather focus on brilliance of execution than on novel creation, and I think a good deal of the celebrity chef thing is based on telling diners that novelty is ipso facto a good thing --- and this often allows the restaurant to cover up weak execution.

Consider sushi restaurants. I don't know about the rest of the country, but I can tell you that in New England and at least to some degree New York a sushi menu will normally have a long list of "special" maki and usually at least a few "signature" maki. These things are, with few exceptions, complex concoctions of a wide range of ingredients. One of the things I learned in Japan is how fundamentally odd this is in terms of Japanese gastronomy: what makes good sushi or sashimi is its utter purity, the way you can't hide weaknesses. If the fish is fabulous and excellently cut, and the ponzu or shoyu and wasabi are of superlative quality, it's good. Many people can evaluate whether the sushi rice is good and the nigiri well-formed; I can't, but that's because I don't like it and normally order sashimi instead. If you pile up 18 ingredients together, you can get away with murder: how is anyone going to know if the fish is really all that good? That's fine if it's the intent --- if you're knocking together cheap maki rolls for on-the-dash dining, you want to use inexpensive scraps and do everything you can to obscure the quality so it's not unpalatable. But the idea of slamming together mounds of dramatically contrasting ingredients and using this as a selling point strongly suggests that your customers don't know the difference between okay fish and great fish. And yet, you'll constantly see in sushi restaurant reviews that the reviewer will harp on the exciting, novel combinations in the signature maki, and note only in passing that, yes, the ordinary standards are good too. Here the whole conception of novelty --- and celebrity, too, if you think about the way "creative" sushi gets located in the hot celebrity world --- undermines quality and taste, and "signature" becomes a constant sign of this effect.

[end edit]

So my problem with "signature" is twofold. On the one hand, it is grossly overused, to the point that all it means is "we don't think this sucks." On the other hand, it encourages people to select their food based on fame and publicity, and in many cases also to do so without regard for things like seasonality: if a dish is always on the menu, it's not seasonal, by definition --- not that all dishes must be seasonal, but I don't like anything that encourages people to think seasonality is irrelevant or a matter of pure hype (which all too often it is, of course).

I should note that I do not fault Chef Tsai for using the term. He's got a business to run, and he does a very good job of it. Part of his customer base -- a significant part -- is people attracted by his celebrity status, and they expect menus that cater to their celebrity-chef expectations. As it happens, I also like at least one of his "signature" dishes, a soup with foie gras shu mai. It's the term I object to, and I only single out Ming Tsai because I have absolutely no other objections to the man and his work.


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## paul palumbo (Jan 2, 2011)

I've considered toying around with a "chef's special" which would be a dish not normally served, with ingredients purchased for that specific purpose.  An example would be a lamb dish, in a restaurant that doesn't normally serve lamb.  In such instances, it's not "oh crap, I have too much x and need to push it" but rather a true special dish for that day.

That in fact is what a chef's special should be.  The last restaurant I worked in was Restaurant Du Village, in Chester, CT.  The menu truly reflected the seasons, and there were specials that ran for a week never more.  The ingredients were purchased specifically for that dish and weren't culled from the leftovers.  The owners of this restaurant were truly gracious and allowed me to cook the leftovers for the daily employee meal.  We ate good.  

Chagal


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## paul palumbo (Jan 2, 2011)

On the subject of words and phrases that rub me the wrong way, and someone said it before, anything that comes out of the mouth of Rachel Ray.  And please with all this celebrity chef garbage.  I mean I don't fault them for taking advantage of an opportunity to make a pile of money from being in this profession.  God knows it's difficult enough to make a living doing what we do.  But give me a break.  How about the guy that gets out of bed at 4 in the morning to get ready for breakfast, making everything from scratch.  And this after he went to bed at 1 or 2 am shutting down the operation and making sure all systems are go for the morning.  To me those guys are the celebrities.  They are the ones that deserve the recognition and seldom if ever get it.  Just saying.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Agchef, love referring to accents being the flavoring of an area....

As one who was an Airforce brat, Army (ex) wife I've lived in CA, Little Rock, Memphis, New Orleans & Southern Louisiana, and St. Louis....each has it's own accent, cadences & idioms, just go down into Cajun country and have a cup of chicory coffee thick as mud with beingets (baya's is how it's pronounced in deep bayou areas).....

Organic will drive you crazy....just know your farmers as much as possible, visit their farms & ask questions.

Our local paper's food editor is a journalist not a "foodie", on her staff are two writers/reviewers who are serious food-beer people.

I've judged contests, organized contests, worked with celebrities in the food world......Just because you can cook does not mean you have a good stage presence (top-tier chef who has international acclaim is a prime example), just because you can work a crowd does not mean you have food depth....it's really cool to work with people that have both...Sara Moulton is a great example. Judging contests is not always fun....seriously....17 apple pies in a contest by #10 you are ready to give up totally on your fav dessert....

Yesterday my inner curmudgeon kicked in when my sister in law asked if the eclairs her 10 year old daughter and I made were from scratch? What, is there a friggin' mix for eclairs now? unreal!....cranky curmudgeon aunty.


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## powerdog (Dec 18, 2010)

"The Chef's Inspiration".

I can deal with "....Special" but "inspiration" seems just a little too intimate -- and customer unfocused --  for me.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

_Thank you *ALL*. _

I killed the better part of today's off time reading this thread. The "word/expression" I can't stand, it makes me want to choke whoever said/says it is: "DECONSTRUCTED". Kiss Off. You're telling me that you took some kinda stupid dish that has no "specialness" at all, broke it into parts, and are trying to serve it to me in some kinda "new way" _to give it_ "specialness". Take a hike.

Anyway, here's what I think about what everyone else has said (all in a good ITB brothers-in-arms sorta way).

I got no problem w/ veggie(s), but I can see how some of you could. I love Rachel Ray. I love "Yum-o", "DE-lish" and "sammys". Sorry. Anything she says is golden. Before you get on me about this, it's all a guy thing. I don't care if she's cooking or anything else at all. It's just her. Let me say this too now. It's the same w/ me for Giada. When you're watching her show you're not looking at the food. Don't lie. You're looking at her. Because of the way she says anything, I go out of my way to speak improperly (_Eye_-talian). I mean no disrespect though. I am Eye-talian. I could watch Sandra Lee make mud-pies, and I'd eat them w/ a smile for a chance to see her on the beach again. Like I said, it's a guy thing. In the other direction, I've always been happy w/ Kat Cora, even though she cuts from the other side of the fillet. In closing this part, I'd be happier than happy to let Anne Burrell become the next Mrs. IceMan. Yes, that's right. She is hot too. I love chicks that actually eat what they order, not leaving the most expensive menu item on the plate saying "I'm full", or "I'm on a diet". Being that she was Mario's sous, I would think that she has appreciation for us more "rotund" kinda guys. There are a number of different main ingredients to make pesto with; almost anything green, leafy and herbal, it doesn't have to be basil. The problem w/ people fouling up "au jus" is because they don't speak French. "On the fly" doesn't bother me. "Homemade" is made by me on-the-spot wherever I am. With "fresh" ingredients that I just picked up before making the dish, even if it's a restaurant. You can't make the stuff I make the way I make it or you wouldn't be at the place I'm making it. So yes, it's homemade by me. I can't stand the Neeleys. Sorry. "86" is OK too. "Fire roasted" means an open fire. Like at a lot of pizza places. How many commercial ovens give you open fires like that? They "oven roast". There is the difference. I have made both "grilled" and "deep fried" lasagna. It can be done. I can tolerate "sorry about that" much more than "my bad". Lots of my dishes are "famous", for two reasons. I worked for a placed named "Famous", and a good deal of people come to me asking for a dish they claim to be "famous" based on their own feelings. I hate, I mean really hate special foreign names for regular stuff; the words "haricot verts" and "chinoise" both got me into fights in school because I didn't know what they were. LOL @ Me. "Made to order", hello?, ever order a pizza? they're "made to order" then and there. No chance do I ever touch "hand spanked fruit". "Signature", same as "famous". People come to order/eat "signature" dishes of mine because nobody else makes them as good or the same way. They're "my" signature dishes. "Authentic" means that I am following a recipe all the way through, without swapping anything out, the same way it's creator (or whoever wrote out the recipe) did. No big deal. Forget wine vocabulary/jargon, don't mess with it. Never fight w/ wine geeks. It ainte worth the effort. "Cat piss" and "barnyard" are very accepted terms in the wine world. "Hand sliced", prime-rib vs. cold-cuts. "Hand selected"; lots of really nasty produce gets through machine sorting. "Hand made"; real ravioli vs. Chef Boyardie. "Pea - Cons". "Chefs Specials'' are those non-menued dishes I'm making because I got a great deal just then on what makes it up, or dishes that I like to make every once in a while. "Hand cut fries" are made throughout the day with a push press, not out of a freezer bag. Waitstaff suggesting their "favorite dishes" is a very important trade trick. When people don't have an idea, the waitstaff can lead them to what I really want to put out that evening. It does not in any way equal push something we've got too much of or are trying to get rid of. "Hots-A-Pom". Another of my side-professions is working for a pet-food maker. YES, I do taste the dog food. I can't stand over 90% of the ICA judges. I'd name them, but I'd probably become offensive. I really like fresh blueberries. "The Chef's Inspiration". I have lots of those. Making a Celebrity TV chef's dish at less than a third the price and then feeding four times the people as they did. Yeah, that inspires me.

OK, that's it. Thanks for sitting through that whole show. I hope I didn't put you to sleep. I love this forum.


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