# Do you put olive oil in your bread dough?



## abefroman (Mar 12, 2005)

Do you put olive oil in your bread dough?

This recipe calls for 1/4c for 4.5c flour, is that too much?

http://www.cookingbread.com/recipes/savory_bread/olive_bread_recipe.html


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Depends on the type of dough I'm making. That recipe uses  more than I've personally used to that much flour, but it should work. You'll have a pretty soft dough with those ratios. Can be tricky to manage but looks worthwhile.


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

That amount sounds about right, to begin with. Adding fat to a dough results in an enriched bread, a loaf that enriched with fat. I've read somewhere that what distinguishes italian bread from french bread is that italian breads are usually enriched whereas french breads generally aren't.

Checkout these two books:

BREAD by Hamelman
THE BREAD BIBLE by Beranbaum


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

What Kokopuffs said. Plus, oil-enriched breads usually keep longer than non-enriched ones.

While I don't question the amount of oil, I do wonder if the person who posted the recipe ever made it in a home environment. How many home ovens, do you reckon, will go from zero to 450 in ten minutes?

As a rule of thumb, for full, stable heating at that temperature, you want to allow at least 40 minutes. If you're using a baking stone, an hour is none to little.


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

KYHeirloomer said:


> ...How many home ovens, do you reckon, will go from zero to 450 in ten minutes?
> 
> As a rule of thumb, for full, stable heating at that temperature, you want to allow at least 40 minutes. If you're using a baking stone, an hour is none to little.


For my standard 6C torpedo/batard, I prewarm my oven for at least an hour at 475F with the baking stone setting inside, obviously.

*AND BE QUITE AWARE OF THE VOLUME OF YOUR OVEN.* My present oven measures 5500 cubic inches whereas an oven I used previously measured 8500 cubic inches. This huge increase in volume required me to prewarm at 550F for at least one hour minimum. Bake time for the former is 30 minutes and the latter 40 minutes.


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

kokopuffs said:


> That amount sounds about right, to begin with. Adding fat to a dough results in an enriched bread, a loaf that enriched with fat. I've read somewhere that what distinguishes italian bread from french bread is that italian breads are usually enriched whereas french breads generally aren't.


Absolutely not. Italian breads are regulated by law as having only flour, salt and yeast (and water). No oil. If there is oil, it's considered a "specialty bread" and has to be labeled as such. They sell _panini all'olio _ "little rolls with oil" that are soft rolls, like hot dog rolls, mainly for certain kinds of sandwiches and for little kids who don;t like crusty bread. Kids will take a panino all'olio filled with prosciutto or stracchino or salame to school as a mid-morning snack, or eat one in the afternoon.

Oil makes the texture fine and soft. Definitely not the quality of good Italian bread. 
Italian bread should have big holes, and be somewhat chewy, not the qualities that oil gives to bread.


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Like I stated, I read what I read somewhere; but, being from Italy, Siduri would be the authority on this topic of enriched breads. 

Never trust what you read. 8^P


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

Yeah, cocopuffs, I don't know where they get their information.  I never trust internet unless it;s a good site.  There are different regional breads but i thinbk the law about the four ingredients allowed is national.  In Umbria and parts of tuscany, there is no salt in it (bla).  In Alto Adige (near austria, german speaking) there is a lot of rye and otehr grains in the bread.  In ferrara it's got a much finer crumb.  But i don;t think anywhere has oil in it. 

In the states, though, if you read the ingredients of the usual package of "italian" bread, the ingredient list takes up the entire length of the loaf!


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

You're correct, Siduri, as far as it goes. A standard "Italian" bread is just like a standard "French" bread, in that in only uses the four basic ingredients.

However, Italy has a rich diversity of enriched breads, and that might be where the confusion lies. For instance, Pane Siciliano (one of my favorites, btw) includes both olive oil and honey. But it's certainly not the more generic Italian bread.

Or, as you note, maybe somebody read the ingredients on an American version (in which oil is added as a keeping agent) and extrapolated out from there?

As to your comment about internet cooking sites: Right on, sister!


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

Yeah, i know there are varieties of bread that are sold as "specialty breads" here - and maybe in sicily they normally eat bread with oil in it - i can't say.  But a quick search on italian sites showed different kinds of breads there, among which were the usual flour, salt and yeast kind - but i can't say which are more common. I was only in sicily once and ate out a couple of times but don;t remember the bread. 

as for internet sites, it';s not only the cooking ones.  It's pretty scary to see some of the other forms of misinformation published there.  People forget that ANY IDIOT can post somethinjg on internet, and if they know how to make a site, they can get it to be one of the first ones that pops up on a google search.


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