# How do I sharpen these



## vimes (Feb 26, 2014)

Hello! I cook at home, ie. I am not a chef. But I love good food, and due to suddenly having more money I am planing to get proper knives. I have always used cheap knives and a roller sharp, or ceramic knives from dx.com (you can't get them cheaper, and they do an OK job). But now I am upgrading my knife arsenal, I got a Mac TH-80 for Christmas, I have a Global GS-5 that I got crazy cheap in the mail, and I plan to order maybe one more knife. I think it will be Japanese, have to read up on this before I order.

Now that I have these great knives I want to care properly for them, that means sharpen them too. I am thinking whetstones, maybe a rod too if I need it, keeping them far away from my roller. 

Over to my problems.
What whetstone to get? Google showed me a few thousand, it needs to be shipped to Norway. 

Do I need to worry allot about breaking the knife when sharpening on a whetstone, I do not believe I would be able to maintain a certain angle the entire sharpening process, I am not that exact and well, I don't want to have to buy new knives.  
Do I need a rod/rods? 

Thank you for all replies!


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## galley swiller (May 29, 2013)

First, since you don't have experience in hand sharpening with a whetstone, I would suggest you watch some on-line videos on how it is done. Jon Broida at Japanese Knife Imports and Mark Richmond at Chef Knives to Go both have extensive series of videos on how to sharpen, using waterstones.

Second, read this post: http://forums.egullet.org/topic/26036-knife-maintenance-and-sharpening/

The minimum size will be 2 inches by 6 inches (50mm x 150mm). That's really a minimum. You are probably going to want both wider and longer. 8 inches (200mm) long by 3 inches (75mm) wide will be much easier for you to work with.

You are going to probably want at least 3 stones -

A coarse stone, in the 400 to 600 grit range, for reprofiling the edge or thinning the blade or doing repairs. This would be the stone you probably won't want to use too much - it's only for the times you need to remove lots of metal. And keep in mind one really important thing about this stone: *You can always remove metal when sharpening - but you can never add metal!*

The second stone should be in the 800 to 1200 grit range. This will be your primary workhorse stone, for restoring sharpness.

The third stone should be in the 3000 to 5000 grit range. This will be your polishing stone. It is also useful for touch-ups.

An alternative is the Edge Pro Apex sharpening system. This system uses a stand on which the knife blade rests, and specialized stones are moved over the knife edge. They create a consistently even edge when sharpening your knives, and require considerably less of a learning curve than freehand sharpening with waterstones. They are sold directly by the inventor, Ben Dale of Hood River, Oregon (http://www.edgeproinc.com/). You might want to also read a fairly recent post I made here: http://www.cheftalk.com/t/79668/a-few-questions-re-the-edge-pro-essential-set#post_459501 (I'm referencing it here, since I'm trying to get this to you as soon as possible, and most of the information would also relate to this thread).

Chef Knives to Go ( http://www.chefknivestogo.com/edgepro.html ) sells customized kits which have different stones from the original Edge Pro kits. I have the "Essential" kit, which uses Shapton Glass stones specifically set up for the Edge Pro systems. Check with Mark Richmond about whether and how he can ship to you in Norway.

The Edge Pro site lists several authorized dealers in the European Union area (I am guessing that Norway is part of the EU) and you might instead decide to order from one of those retailers. I am also thinking that you might want to go the "do-it-yourself" stone route, so I concentrated on retailers selling the Edge Pro Apex One kit. The least expensive I quickly found was Yankee Online ( http://www.yankeeonline.nl/products/detail.asp?pid=723 ), which offered the Edge Pro Apex One kit for 159.99 euros.

Hope that helps

Galley Swiller


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Vimes said:


> ...Google showed me a few thousand, it needs to be shipped to Norway...


Perhaps you could make an inquiry at Brisa Knifemaking Supply, located in your neck of the woods.


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## kevpenbanc (Jan 18, 2014)

JCK do a 1000/4000 combination stone which I find easy to use.
It is 20cm by 6.5 cm.
I have a tojiro combo stone which is 17.5cm by 5.5cm and the JCK stone may not sound much bigger, but in practice the difference is significant.
It's a good price and postage is cheap.


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## chrisbelgium (Oct 2, 2010)

Hello Vimes, welcome to Cheftalk. As a European (think shipping costs!), a good source for stones is this one; http://stores.ebay.com/BluewayJapan...=20320405&_sid=84335187&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

You might maybe get in touch with Maksim from Denmark who specializes in natural stones. Not that you need an expensive natural stone right now, but the guy may give you more useful tips; http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com


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## vimes (Feb 26, 2014)

Hello and thank you for awesome replies,I did not get time to read everything now as my hands are very, very full today. But when I get the chance (maybe tomorrow) I will read everything with the utmost care. also Galley I looked at the Edge Pro briefly and it seemed that a complete system would cost me allot more then two wet stones? Again I have only glanced. 
I did get a look at this on the bus :




 and it seems it wasn't as hard as I thought, going to read the '*Knife Maintenance and Sharpening'* by Chad Ward tomorrow.


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## galley swiller (May 29, 2013)

I added the Edge Pro because that's my primary experience method.  It's also a much shorter learning curve compared to freehand sharpening using waterstones.  One significant advantage to the Edge Pro is the ability to have a no-variation consistent bevel along the entire length of your knife.  And, using the stop-collar trick, you can maintain that bevel even when changing stones.  And, if you keep notes (and an Angle Cube), you can come back to the Edge Pro later and re-set the machine to duplicate that first angle.  I can also set the machine at an infinitely variable number of angles, so I can have different bevel angles for different knives.

The Edge Pro does initially cost a lot more - but most of that is for the basic stand.  After that, adding on is a lot cheaper, even when buying re-cut top grade Japanese waterstones.  It's also where you can make "do-it-yourself" stone setups for just a few dollars (or euros).  

If you do go the freehand route, I would suggest you get some way to accurately measure and duplicate the angles you want to hold the blade at by hand.  For myself, that means either using an Angle Cube (or some other electronic equivalent), or setting up a jig and using a basic set of machinists' angle blocks.  I have used both (and prefer the angle blocks).  Either way, that will simplify the learning curve for freehand sharpening quite a bit.

Hope that helps.

Galley Swiller


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## vimes (Feb 26, 2014)

I did get to very briefly try a sharpening stone, not a wetstone (even though I made it wet.. maybe it was). 
http://bildr.no/view/TFUxWUJO <- a picture, they weight very little, I ground the one down to make it even first. I did how ever have big trouble sharpening one of my hiking knifes on it, getting an un-even result (these are cheap hiking knifes, but in hard steel. it was a Mora knife). 
I looked at Brisa, they seemed to only have one waterstone going for 41 EUR (*1000/3000)*, making it significantly cheaper then the one I first looked at that I found on JapaneseChefsKnifes.com going at 65 USD (1000/4000) altough JapaneseChefKnife advertises shipping for only 7 USD world wide. Might be that the stones in JapaneseChefsKnifes are better for all I know. BlueWayJapan only ships to the U.S according to E-Bay, I can how ever make an inquiry if his stones are superior.

Now it might sound like I tossed the idea of the edge pro out, I did not. Trying the Icelandic stone only made me more worried about whetstones, although it would be 'rewarding' to learn how to use whetstones. I am going to send and inquiry to the makers of the Edge Pro after I write this post with some questions regarding shipping and some other things. 
I did how ever, through my googeling find something slightly illeagel via a YouTube video, link to the store. It even fits with the original Edge Pro stones so I can use them and have free shipping. I do how ever think this kind of blatant copy paste is wrong so if I can get the Apex kit here without an insane shipping cost I would rather try to do that, even though I would save ALLOT on the Chinese copy with the real Apex stones, good for my student budget. I will be getting an angle cube no matter what I buy for sharpening though, maybe the cubes if I go for the stone way. Although I am leaning towards the Apex. Waiting for reply from the Apex website.


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## vimes (Feb 26, 2014)

After mailing Edgepro I got a reply from 'Ben', he actually recommended me to start with the counterfeit edge pro. So I will, if I like it I think (as he recommended in the mail) I will invest in the real one. Now I need some suggestions for stones, after writing this I will begin searching for good stones, also thinking about getting the iGaging angle cube


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## dillbert (Jul 2, 2008)

>>try the

wasting your money.  go with the proven article.

10 years from now you'll not remember how much (more) it cost; you'll just not be cussing the crappy stuff....

I hand sharpened for twenty-some years; the EdgePro is superior.

if you're going to get into super hard crazy knives, keeping the proper angle becomes more and more important and more and more difficult to do - because the hard-hader-hardest steels take more-morer-morist "strokes" to get them done.


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## galley swiller (May 29, 2013)

Far be it from me to castigate Ben at Edge Pro, if he recommended you go with a copy. Certainly, on other forums, there has been a great deal of angst and recriminations from those who see using copies of the Edge Pro as a moral issue, if Ben still has his patent. I don't have to concern myself with that dilemma, since I bought from CKTG, which is an authorized reseller.

Personally, I agree with Dillbert - go for the real thing. Even if you go for an "Edge Faux" machine, you will still need to get a set of stones (be cautioned that the "stones" which come with such sets are - and I use a word which I hope won't get me into trouble about language on this forum - *CRAP!*) The stand will work (albeit with less smoothness than Ben's original), but the stones supplied with all the "Edge Faux" stands are mounted on plastic, and are universally despised as totally worthless for doing any sort of real work. And that assessment about the "Edge Faux" stones isn't about any moral qualms - it's about getting something that will really work.

Check with Mark at CKTG about shipping to Norway. And then consider getting the CKTG "Essential" Kit for $230.

In the long run, it's worth it - and you won't regret it.

Galley Swiller


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## robertoo (Mar 4, 2014)

Best buy for the edge pro is (I think) for Europe is Yankeeonline  because vat is included and no worry about costums  because it is EU.

If I order from Japan or USA I have to pay vat and costums clearance (about 35% extra).


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