# Sharpening stone



## totte (Nov 22, 2015)

Hi, hopefully this is the right category. I just got me self a pair of wusthof classic ikon. Now i'm thinking of getting a sharpening stone so I can give them the love they deserve and serve me for many years to come. However, I'm not sure what to get. I'm looking at wusthofs own stones, trying to figure out if 1000/3000 or 400/2000 is the better one to get. Help please?


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## chefbuba (Feb 17, 2010)

You should post this in the knife forum, you will get more advise than you will need.

http://www.cheftalk.com/f/21325/food-equipment-reviews


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## totte (Nov 22, 2015)

Oh, thanks!  could some kind moderator move the thread perhaps?


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## virgil (Jan 21, 2016)

Totte said:


> Hi, hopefully this is the right category. I just got me self a pair of wusthof classic ikon. Now i'm thinking of getting a sharpening stone so I can give them the love they deserve and serve me for many years to come. However, I'm not sure what to get. I'm looking at wusthofs own stones, trying to figure out if 1000/3000 or 400/2000 is the better one to get. Help please?


Hi Totte.

I would encourage you to contact your knife manufacturer or do some research on your knife's blade style i.e. what sort of edge it has and its metal makeup. Some of the more expensive knives are made up of a softer inner core wrapped by a harder outer layer of steel. The metal composition will determine what sort of sharpening stone should be used.

Having said that, the style of your knife's edge will determine how it is sharpened when using the sharpening stone. The edge of the knife will also determine the exact angle in which the blade makes contact with the stone when it is being sharpened. Sharpening the blade at the wrong angle will likely damage your knives or possibly ruin them. Here is an image of some different knife edges. As you can see, the edge is going to determine how the stone is used.





  








knife-edge-styles3.png




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Using the stone itself is not something just anyone can do right off, especially with quality kitchen knives. Different knife edges call for different sharpening techniques. Otherwise, the blade can be damaged, as I have already said. It takes practice and skill to properly sharpen a quality blade with a wet stone.

If you are not familiar with sharpening blades with a wet stone, I would highly recommend that you have your knives professionally sharpened at first and practice with the wet stone on lesser quality knives.

Good luck!

-V


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## totte (Nov 22, 2015)

Virgil said:


> Hi Totte.
> 
> I would encourage you to contact your knife manufacturer or do some research on your knife's blade style i.e. what sort of edge it has and its metal makeup. Some of the more expensive knives are made up of a softer inner core wrapped by a harder outer layer of steel. The metal composition will determine what sort of sharpening stone should be used.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I was actually thinking of practiceing on less expensive knifes first, I got a whole bunch of those who need some love and a few I don't really care if they get completely ruined.


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## virgil (Jan 21, 2016)

Here is a great video that I found from Wusthoff about their tristone wet stone and the technique for sharpening a knife.

I hope this helps. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

Good luck!

-V


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## totte (Nov 22, 2015)

Virgil said:


> Here is a great video that I found from Wusthoff about their tristone wet stone and the technique for sharpening a knife.
> 
> I hope this helps.
> 
> ...


Thanks but I've been looking for that one and I can't find a single store who ships it to Sweden...


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

Edge Pro sharpener! Not cheap but it puts a repeatable edge on a blade.


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## totte (Nov 22, 2015)

Virgil said:


> Here is a great video that I found from Wusthoff about their tristone wet stone and the technique for sharpening a knife.
> 
> I hope this helps.
> 
> ...


Can't find a single place which ships to Sweden. I've been trying to find one of these for some time now :-(


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## virgil (Jan 21, 2016)

Not even Wusthoff in Germany will ship to Sweden? Sounds like you may have a road trip in your future! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/thumb.gif


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## markinlondon (Jan 21, 2016)

Try Maksim at http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com He has for a long time been a regular and respected contributor to many of the forums I participate in. It's critical to note that I am not affiliated with him in any way. He definitely ships to Sweden, and has all sorts of stones, natural and synthetic, at many price points.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

+1 on JNS i have ordered many times from Maksim. Free worldwide shipping over a certain minimum


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## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

Don't mean to be a contrarian, but I prefer one sweeping motion that covers the whole edge at once, through the length of the stone, instead of the short throw. I also only own a two sided stone.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

400 may be too low for your purposes having a new knife. 1000 is a decent starting point.

Can you find Naniwa chosera (professional) stones in Europe?


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## gilbertofarthi (Jan 25, 2016)

I am using diamond sharper as they are easier and less messy to use. One thing which I have notices is they are cheap and reliable. One can easily drop without any problems. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/mullet.gif


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

But they leave nice big scratches


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## gilbertofarthi (Jan 25, 2016)

Due to the aggressiveness of diamond may be. As a new user for any sharpening medium, one must have to be careful not to overdo it, not pressing too hard, or the edge can be damaged./img/vbsmilies/smilies/surprised.gif


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## totte (Nov 22, 2015)

Hum, I've been doing some more reading. So many options. Lets say I just want to maintain my blades sharpness and keep them in mint condition. What's the best way to go? Honing rod or wet/sharpening stone? (With practice on less expensive knifes first.)

How does them electric sharpeners work? Any good?

I got a ceramic honing rod from IKEA at the moment, tho I haven't dared using it on my new knifes yet, is there a big chance of ruining the edge? I've managed to make my other knifes sharper at least, so I believe I'm using it correctly.

We also got this service in Sweden called knife letters, you send the knifes in some special letters they send you and you send them back to professional sharpers once or twice a year and they sharpen them and send them back to you. It costs about 13,88£/knife.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Stones are the better option if you want this knife to still cut well for you in the long term (after a few months). They are certainly the better option for improving knives' sharpeness. Understand that new knives can be improved upon a good deal with the right tools.

After 2-3 usages of those knife letters you could have purchased a stone. If you are willing to learn and plan to keep your knives for more than 1-2 years, stones are pretty convincingly a better option.


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## kartman35 (Jan 12, 2013)

Ok. Here goes.

You have purchased some quality knives made from relatively soft stainless steel. During normal use, the still sharp edge will roll slightly and become wavy or out of true. In order to keep the blade straight and cutting well, you'll need to 'steel' the knife on a honing rod, and your ceramic rod is fine for that. A few gentle passes on each side of the knife whenever the knife seems to not be cutting quite as well will straighten everything up and you find that knife will feel sharp again.






After a while, you'll notice that you need to go back to the rod more and more frequently, and the results will seem not as good as they were. This is when you need to sharpen the knife and a stone is best for that. As long as the knife has no chips, or significant damage (inspect the edge with a loupe) all you'll ever need for that knife is a medium grit stone (800-2k) to sharpen on. A 400 grit stone will be good for removing chips and fixing damaged blades, but are not necessary unless you need to do this. Also, being new to sharpening you'll want some practice before taking a very abrasive stone t your knife because you can alter the profile easily and quickly and if you don't know what you're doing cause damage. Conversely if you polish a softish knife too much (3k+) you'll find you're taking away too much bite from the edge and the blade will slide on tomatoes for example instead of digging in.

For how to sharpening instruction check out Jon's videos on youtube Japanese Knife Imports channel.


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## kartman35 (Jan 12, 2013)

Benuser said:


> Soft stainless won't hold a polished edge. Get a 400-500 stone and deburr with a green Scotch pad, felt, dry sponge.


Are they really THAT soft? Wusthof says 58 HRC....


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

When I started sharpening I hadn't run across the threads that said 'coarse stones have consequences' and accidentally reprofiled my practice knives...I'm not so sure it's the best idea for a brand new sharpener to use something sub 800-1000 grit.


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## john smith198 (Feb 1, 2016)

I am in a simular situation. I'm looking for a set of sharpening stones for my Zwilling knives.

I’m currently looking at:

“Bob Kramer by ZWILLING J.A Henckels 6-pc Glass Water Stone Sharpening Set”
Looks nice. 3 different grits (400, 1000 and 5000)
But definitely not cheap.

Or

The combination of TWIN Stone Pro (250 grit and 1000 grit) and TWIN Finishing Stone Pro (3000 grit and 8000 grit). Both by Zwilling.
Also not cheap but less expensive than the first set. I have no idea about the practical impact of the different grits. How much more coarse is 250 compared to 400? Is 8000 overkill?

Any help in explaining the pro’s and con’s of both choices as well as alternatives would be more than welcome.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Also hadn't read the threads that suggested to start with a cheap carbon steel knife for practice 

Is the Wusthof steel drastically different than 440A? My practice knife was a CrapCo (bad life decisions, I know) and with a bester 500 and a tendency to press down harder when nervous, I did feel like I took a significant amount of metal from that knife.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)




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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

foody518 said:


> When I started sharpening I hadn't run across the threads that said 'coarse stones have consequences' and accidentally reprofiled my practice knives...I'm not so sure it's the best idea for a brand new sharpener to use something sub 800-1000 grit.


This can happen... ask me how I know. I have 4 Henkels 4-star paring knives that got re-profiled that way. But I don't think it matters if the knife is carbon or German steel... the most important thing is to do the homework on the principles of sharpening and start with a knife that is relatively expendable, just in case.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

John Smith198 said:


> I am in a simular situation. I'm looking for a set of sharpening stones for my Zwilling knives.
> 
> I'm currently looking at:
> 
> ...


The glass stones look very much like rebranded Shapton glass stones. I'd be surprised if they weren't overpriced as well. Not 100% sure on the twin stones but you can certainly get combo stones for cheaper.

Alternatives- beston+bester for low to medium grit, Suehiro rika for medium fine with really fun and creamy feel and good feedback. King is very standard and good. If money is not a concern, Naniwa Chosera/Professional and Gesshin stones are great options. This is by no means an exhaustive list and I hope others will chime in, but I hope this makes you aware of non-Zwilling stones (I would be surprised if theirs is more than just a rebranding).

Depending on the Zwilling knives you have you could also simply use oilstones.

I have a 220 stone and it looks and feels like a giant scratchy cinderblock, if that gives any reference. Also, search this forum because sharpening and stone recommendations have been given on multiple occasions.

Hope this helps


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Those looking for stones here in the States.

Grab the 5 or 8pc sharpening set here: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/shstse.html

Or for the best look here: http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/stone-sets-and-combo-stones That diamond stone set is very tempting, I just don't think I can justify it for my use.

Rick


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## mike9 (Jul 13, 2012)

Jon's Gesshin line of stones are really, really good.


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## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

I own this one.

http://www.jbprince.com/knife-sharpeners/combination-waterstone-1000-and-6000-grit.asp

and another more coarse dual stone I never use.


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## markinlondon (Jan 21, 2016)

no love for the Coticule, eh? That's so sad. It's the only rock you'll ever need.


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## totte (Nov 22, 2015)

Everyone got different opinions as it seems  I'm way more confused now than before I made this thread xD


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## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

Totte said:


> Everyone got different opinions as it seems  I'm way more confused now than before I made this thread xD


I thought that is to be expected with all facets of life. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Well, there isn't one exact right answer, but most all of the suggestions have been good ones XD


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## kartman35 (Jan 12, 2013)

foody518 said:


> Well, there isn't one exact right answer, but most all of the suggestions have been good ones XD


Not really so much....The people that suggest he needs a 5k finishing stone or 5 piece sharpening kit from CKTG are flat wrong, and a belgian coticule is even finer than that....I understand they're popular for finishing straight razors.

Our OP asked about stones and rods for Wusthof steel. All he needs is a medium grit stone to complement the ceramic rod that he has already bought, a sharpie to find the bevel, something to keep it flat (drywall screen or diamond plate) and a bunch of practice.

We're talking about soft steel here. No need for finishing stones.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

I agree.  For that type of stainless 1000-2000 grit stone is all you need.


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## foody518 (Aug 6, 2015)

Hence the qualifier of "most". You're right that a true 5k finish would be overkill. In my head I've kind of got the Rika (in the 5pc set) pegged as 3-4k which is almost acceptable?  it can be worked to leave a respectable amount of tooth.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

I have to say that the video itself is bologna. I've sharpened a wusthof ikon to 10K+ and the performance is far superior, especially compared to what I see in the video for the coarse grit edge, and also that is the only way to get such a knife slicing paper thin. Whatever this individual did to "polish", the fact is he did not produce a keen edge.

The large carbide size of cheap stainless practically guarantees you a toothy edge, even at high grits. One explanation for what we see in the video, aside from poor sharpening technique, is that he wound up putting on a rather obtuse edge, in which case I don't think he'd actually be cutting hair very well, and of course he did not demonstrate any hair shaving.

There is a lot of debate about what holds up better here, a coarse or fine grit edge, and possibly both sides are right. I suppose it has a lot to do with a number of factors, particularly sharpening angle, the things you cut, and the way you cut them.

All I can say is that for my own experience with cheap stainless [using acute angles, light to no board contact], a polished edge works better all around.

Actually, I did do a bit of board work with the Ikon at one point. I thought it held up rather nicely to the pounding with the high-polish microbevel, but boy did I have a lot more fatigued metal to remove come full-scale sharpening time, which of course would be expected.


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## kolokotroni (Mar 25, 2016)

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kolokotroni


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http://www.suehiro-toishi.com/howto/





  








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kolokotroni


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