# when can you call yourself a chef?



## frizbee

I am graduating from Johnson and Wales university in May with my associates in culinary arts, and I have been working in the kitchens as a cook about 3-4 years prior to my entering school. I am on track to purchase a wedding catering business upon graduation, and I am not sure how to bill myself. Can I call myself a Chef?
The business is in a small to mid sized southeastern town, and no other catering establishments have a "chef", so for marketing purposes it would be a edge over the competition. However I certainly wouldn't want to title myself, or bill myself as something I am not. On the other hand, I would be the owner operator, and paying all the bills, so can't I call myself anything I want but the son of god?
Thanks,
Frizbee


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## phishstyx

I don't know the official rules but if I own the place, pay the bills, do the cooking, write the menus, handle ordering and costs and am in charge of staffing, I'm the chef. Maybe not "a chef" by some definitions, but at that place I'm the chef. Chef is chief, chief is in charge, you're in charge, you're the chef.


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## mikelm

Friz-

NOT until you get one of those really tall white hats!

Couldn't resist

Mike


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## dano1

when your comfortable with it.....

The people i respect most are very humble and insist they be called by their first name. The pompous a~~holes who bill themselves chefs are usually worth nothing. 

For marketing purposes it may not be a bad idea though.

Just my opinion, danny


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## phishstyx

I don't bill myself as a chef. I don't think of myself in those terms despite the fact that that's exactly the duties I perform at the restaurant. However I do disagree with the statement that those who bill themselves as chef's are "usually worth nothing" and "pompous a~~holes". Chef is a title, a learned skillset, an earned position but has nothing to do with the kind of person behind the title. I've known some really nice people who bill themselves as chef's and some real losers who don't use that title and vice versa. Making that statement is like saying everybody who uses "Dr." as part of their title behaves a certain way... which obviously isn't true.


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## mezzaluna

I'm not a pro, but a respectful, appreciative enthusiast. 

Wanting to be a chef is not adequate reason to call yourself one. I may be remembering inaccurately, but my brother considered himself a cook before going to culinary school. After that he used the title of chef. However, I'm guessing that rigorous training, even outside of a formal school, would merit the title. Didn't we discuss this at one time? 

You may be wondering why I, a non-chef and mere enthusiast, would comment here. The reason is that as the Welcome Forum moderator, I often have new members sign up as "Chef" something or other. Then, when they describe themselves, you find out they're an accountant or something, and are avid home cooks rather than culinary pros. I am sensitive to this issue, as I hold chefs in high regard and don't wish to see their professionalism diluted or insulted in any way.

However, short of demanding someone's credentials, I really don't know how we can police this. We do our best, though!


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## cape chef

I totally disagree with this assessment of a chef. I actually feel a bit offended by it. Who are you to call chefs pompous a~~holes and worthless if they have earned the title of Chef. So Point, was worthless? Passard, Ducasse, Girardet, Robuchon, Bras, all pompous a~~holes? I think not. Before someone comes on a site devoted to professional chefs and "flames" the whole idea of the word chef should do his/her homework. There are a number of things in life I am very proud of, and one of them is being a chef (and not a worthless, pompous ******* one either)


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## dano1

guess i need to clarify -the folks who insist they be addressed as Chef XXX, the next best thing since sliced bread, are the folks i am referring to. We've all worked with them, for them, or seen them on certain programs, at one time or another.

No offense intended to anyone. As i said, call yourself chef when you are comfortable with it. I call em as i see em. People refer to me as chef. I am not worthy of the title compared to Ducasse, Girardet et al. and thus avoid referring to myself as such. It is a title that must be earned through blood, sweat, and tears so to speak. A title not to take lightly. A title i do hold utmost respect for,and worth the respect of the person using it. Unfortunately this is not always the case.

danny


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## michigan dave

First a little business advice - the timid don't generally make it in the business world. With that said you can probably guess what my answer to your question is. By all means call yourself a chef if you feel you have earned it - and then back it up by being the best. However, I would take the advice of the dano 1 and don't make your employees or customers call you chef, you will come off as arrogant and affected. Use it in your marketing and realize that it is just that - a marketing edge. If you are humble and under-promise and over-deliver you should do well. Just a little more free advice from someone who has been where you are going (self-employed) - get a good CPA and a good lawyer in your corner and heed their advice. Yes it is expensive but it is even more expensive without them. Pay your bills and taxes on time and treat your employees well and you should be successfull. Good luck and remember that sleep is vastly overrated. BTW I really am an accountant that enjoys cooking but I am definitely not a chef.


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## cape chef

Don't judge what you have never experienced.


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## kuan

IMO, when people start calling you chef, then you're a chef.

Edit: We might also want to ask what it is about the profession which leads people to think that some are pompous assholes like dano says, or what leads Dave to believe what he believes about the cheffin' business.

If we want to change the way we're perceived, we need to ask some questions and be receptive to answers. We may not like some of them but we can at least give them a good listen.


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## michigan dave

I said what I said because I have experienced it- professionalism that is. Professionalism is about your attitude toward what you do and striving to be the best that you can be whether it's what you do for a living or just a passion in life. Just because I'm not an actor, a mechanic, a lawyer or an artist or anything else in life doesn't mean I can't tell a good one from a bad one. The mere fact that Frizbee cared enough to ask the question tells me that he or she likely has what it takes to be a chef. Elsewhere in this forum I read that a chef is someone who is in charge of the entire kitchen responsible for all aspects of its operation - menu choice, food costs, preparation, purchasing and all of the other things that go into running the kitchen - thats what Frizbee said he or she was going to do. From what Frizbee said he or she seems to know what they're doing and has put in the time in the kitchen and in the classroom in addition to taking on the responsibility of running a catering business - that's why I believe he or she should be able to call himself or herself a chef. I have a fairly good background in the food service and restaurant business. Although I would not call myself a chef I am a fairly good and experienced cook - in fact I've won blue ribbons in statewide comptetitions for my cooking. I still don't call myself a chef because I don't have the formal training and intimate knowledge of why ingredients do what they do etc. However, I do appreciate a good a well-prepared meal and all of the hard work and creativity that go into it and certainly know good food from bad. That's why I told Frizbee he or she could bill themselves as a chef. If you disagree that's fine, reasonable people can and often do disagree.


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## kuan

The main characteristic of a good chef is leadership. Everything else follows from good leadership. Good food cost, consistency, quality, everything. 

If people do not acknowledge you as their leader then you are not their leader. Simple as that.


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## dano1

As one of my mentors put it quite succinctly years ago "Chef is a big word". I always try to stay out of these arguements-don't know what i was thinking this time around .

hth, danny


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## jim berman

You know, we have gone back and forth about the 'chef' title in the past. So, let's get constructive, eh? How about writing an objective definition of which we can all (or most of us) agree. I propose, for instance, listing the attributes of a chef and then assembling those attributes into a meanigful definition.
Ideas?


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## a la carte

ugh - why can't anyone be a chef - you cook, you love it, you're a chef. Jesus - why the snob factor?


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## deltadoc

Here are some definitions gleaned from the "Web":

a professional cook 
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

(French) A culinary expert. The chief of the kitchen. 
www.ddc.com/cheferic/gloss.htm

1} A very grumpy man or woman who is in charge of creating foods and food combinations. 2} One who has access to very large knives. 
lifeintheweeds.tripod.com/lifeintheweeds/Jargon.html

doc


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## mikeb

The way I see it, a Chef is kind of like a CEO. When you graduate from business school you don't become a CEO overnight, it's something earned through years of hard work... Same for a chef - when you graduate you're a professional cook, after years of hard work you might become a chef. Chef = leader of the kitchen, not just a cook with a diploma...


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## mikeb

It has nothing to do with snobbery. Chef literally means leader, the chef is the leader of the kitchen. It's a title earned through years of hard work. You wouldn't call someone with a first aid certificate doctor, it's a title which requires years of education and hard work... Cooks get their education in the field, only after mastering cooking techniques (which does take years) and running a kitchen are they called Chef...


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## jim berman

"ugh - why can't anyone be a chef - you cook, you love it, you're a chef. Jesus - why the snob factor?"

Hardly worth a reply, but here goes...
I like animals and I give them medicine when they are sick... I guess I am a vet....
I run and I enjoy it, so I guess I am an olympian...
I use a computer and I enjoy it, so I am a programmer...

Like MikeB said, it has nothing to do with snobbery. I has to do with hard work, dedication, SKILL, leadership and, above all, experience. :chef:


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## frizbee

I know my question prompted this discussion, and I think in the abstract it depends on what job title you have, or what your boss titles you. I certainly can’t call my self an engineer if I am in the kitchen cooking, I would have no business doing as much. Since I am going to be the boss I shall bill myself as Chef. My only concern was criticism from my culinary community, but in soul searching, I have realized that every chef started being called chef at some point and the first time they were called Chef I am sure it was a reflection of their job title. We don’t call each other Chef on the line after all, we are cooks. I guess I was just having anxiety about it. 
Two other points I would like to address...someone mentioned that some people get stuck on the title, and I agree. Those people do seem more pompous and not who I am. I would introduce myself as such, in professional situations, but not flip if an employee or client failed to call me "Chef ...".
Also I think that we forget that Chef can precede many titles, meaning it is a shortened version of exe chef, sous chef, chef garde manger, etc.. and has more commonly been used to refer to the top person in charge of that kitchen. However I have called sous "Chef", and so on, and I personally think that anyone who is in charge of a particular food prep, like Chef garde manger, would rate the reference.
I have know some who have refused to refer to some exe chefs as Chef, because they were of poor personality or caliber, and I think that is sad. You can't take anyone's experience or education away from them, and if they have put in the time, and garnered the education they should be referred to as such, especially if that is their title. I just referred to them as Chef ******* quietly under my breath.


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## bill

As for my two cents worth,

I've been in this buisness for over twenty years,and in that time I've been called several things,until I took a position as the Sous Chef many years ago I never called myself "CHEF" , since that time I've earned the title from hard work,continuing education and testing with the American Culinary Federation, I tested and earned my "Sous Chef" title several years ago and later "Chef de Cuisine" and I'm now working on my "Executive Chef" certification,after that comes " Master Chef",I doubt I'll ever live that long


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## pete

We can spend hours debating over what "chef" means. We all have our personal opinions about who has the right to call themselves "chef", but when it comes down to it, a chef is the leader (ruler, chief, head) of the kitchen. He is the one who makes all the "big picture" decisions, and is the one ultimately held responsible for running of the kitchen and its profitability. Under that definition, anyone that runs a kitchen has the right to call themselves "chef". It doesn't matter if it is McD's, a Mom and Pop diner or a 5-star restaurant. That said, I too attach many more stipulations to the title "chef". I don't like to use the title "chef" when refering to myself as I don't feel I have achieved that status, and I don't use that title when speaking with " chefs" that I don't feel have earned it either. To me, personally, "chef" is a title of respect, but ultimately it is a very utilitarian term used to denote the person in charge of a kitchen. I am not bothered by all the inexperienced people and hacks out there throwing the term around. I laugh at the recent culinary school grad who, too quickly, takes a management job and calls himself "Chef", because I know when the s*** hits the fan, and the tickets start rolling in, who will be left standing.


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## chef ed

well said Pete


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## deltadoc

I have a different perspective on being or not being called "Chef".

I have a degree in Physics. No one has ever called me Physicist Roger.

I've been an medical device design Engineer for 33 years, and no one has ever called me Engineer Roger.

I can talk about intrathecal drug delivery and hold my own with the best MD's in the world on that subject, and while I'm not an MD, everyone calls me doc roger!

I am not a professional musician, but when I play Mississippi Delta slide blues on my 1935 National Duolian guitar, some of the world's greatest professional blues musicians have told me that I'm about as good as it gets, so they call me Delta Doc Roger. (As Artie Traum (brother of Happy Traum-Homespun Tapes) once said, "Ya gonna play slide, ya gotta have three names!"

Go figure! 

doc


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## chef ed

hey Doc....


1st of all...being a "Chef" is sort of like a right of passage. A boy turns into a young man, and so forth hitting different stages of life.

A prep cook turns into a cook, a cook to a chef. Sort of the same idea. Not knocking any other profession, but the cooking industry is more of a lifestyle. Not that any other job or career doesnt' have these characteristics, but I can attest that cooking professionally is more of a way of life. With this said, the rights of passage comes with life, and hense the kitchen does as well. It's not just moving up in ranks or "graduating" to the next level. It's the life you choose as a Culinarian. 

In short(too late for that), you may be good at playing the drums, you may be great at bowling, you may be the best at playing baseball, but nothing you can say, or do can compare to the life of a kitchen scrub.

Tell me, what other career can you start off at the bottom, work your way up the ladder, all the way to the top, then as life goes on you are moved back down the ladder to the same place you started when you get older.
????? Hummmm wow the life of a Chef. 
MOST....I stress most.. start off as a dishwasher...they then get hooked on the food, money(somtimes) and the fun that goes with working in the kitchen. Then you want more, so you look to move up to prep cook, and then to the stage of cook...then you push and push to be a Sous Chef....then Executive Chef......woops..then you start getting old.....you can't handle the stress any longer...you move back down to Sous... then that gets to be too much, so you look for a job as just a cook....then woops too old for that now, then you BOOM you are right back to where you started, a dishwasher. 

And so back to what you say about just being good at something doesn't grant you the right of a title, you are right. But just being good at cooking will NEVER grant you the right at being called a Chef. It' s the life of being a Chef that grants us the right to have the title. Not that I'm big on titles, it's only a word, I could care less. When you try and compare playing someone elses work on an instrument and being a Chef, I must say you may be smart, but you have NO idea what you are talking about.

nuff said, and sorry for being so long winded.

Chef Ed


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## deltadoc

Hi Chef Ed,
I was enjoying your post until I got to the part where you felt it necessary to bash me.

You know what that tells me, here is guy who says that titles don't mean that much, that it's only a word, and you could care less. But then, you come across as very defensive about your title as "Chef". That's ok. 

Generally speaking, people who have inferiority complexes need something like "titles" to feel good about themselves. Especially when they feel the need to bash someone that "threatens" them, does it become very apparent that the title is what gives you a feeling of self-worth. So be it.

Me...I don't need a title to have sense of self worth. I don't feel the need to bash somebody when I feel threatened. Just for the sake of setting things straight, smart does not cut it. There are plenty of "smart" people out there that couldn't play an instument or cook if their life depended upon it. And to be a "chef' requires something more than being smart, it requires talent. Same with being a musician. Amateur or professional, you either have it or you don't. The point that you missed is why do chefs like you feel that someone who is not a "professional" cannot be worthy, when world class musicians have no problem with recognizing talent, regardless if that talent is professional or amateur, and you, as chef, cannot??



You think that a world class professional musician is any the less involved with music in their life than you are with your culinary pursuits? 

You missed the point completely. I wasn't trying to compare playing an instrument with being a chef. I was trying to point out that talent is talent, and no matter where you are, or who you are, if you have talent, you got it.

Professional musicians, or professional chefs, whatever, if you feel the need to "have" a title to feel important, then you are missing something vital in your life.

Next time you try to bash someone like me, try taking a look in the mirror and repeat what you said to me.

doc


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## chef ed

doc....

what i got out of your post, was someone that was triing to compare the life of a chef, with someone else where no "Titles" are used. So before you go on about my self worth, why don't you try and get off your high horse. And as far as my "title" like i said....I'm just a glorified dishwasher and could care less about someone calling me chef....as a matter of fact in my 6 kitchens all of my staff refers to me as Ed or Chef, it's their call. 
I'm not stuck on myself, like someone has posted, I'm just one of the highest paid dishwashers in Michigan.

and as far as my names here in the Forum...well the name "Ed" was already taken.

so before you can try and act like you know me, and try to ramble on about someone you have no clue about...try looking at yourself before judging others, and how hard they may work or how passionate they may feel about how hard they work at something like being a chef. 

untill then...you can take your degree and well.......i won't say it here in the forums. But I will say, I would love for you to spend a year working in a high volume kitchen and see how you would react.


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## jim berman

Hey, fellas....

You can certainly have a witty and insightful exchange of opposing viewpoints without getting personal. THere's already enough anger in the world; let's enjoy each other's company whether or not the other person enjoys our perspective or not.


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## deltadoc

Hi Chef Ed,
I'm sorry if what I say has offended you. Wasn't my intent.

doc


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## pete

Well said Jim!!! As you all can see, this debate raises some hot issues. What it comes down to is this, professional "chefs" work hard and spend many years honing their craft (notice I don't say art, but that is a whole other topic, one debated even more hotly than this one). In this field, where most of us are way overworked and way underpaid it's one of the few things that we hold sacried. To many of us "chef" is a title of respect. One given to a person because they have achieved a certain level of knowledge and experience, and it bugs many of us when nonprofessionals toss the term around so carelessly. This in no way reflects what we think of "amateur" cooks, foodies, or gourmets. I know many "nonprofessionals" that can cook killer meals. But are they chefs? No! Using the definition I gave a few posts ago, they don't fall in the catagory, and when you heap all the baggage that us "professional" cooks put on the word, it definately doesn't. There is much more to being a chef than just cooking. It's being a mentor, a babysitter, a dishwasher, an accountant, and many more things. All these as they relate to a "professional" kitchen. The home cook has none of this to contend with. If you still don't understand this, then a challenge you to go observe a "chef" at work. Spend the day in a high-volume, fine-dining restaurant, and watch the chef. Whether he/she is one of these calm chefs, that nothing phases or a psycho chef that is everywhere at once yelling and screaming. It is this person that keeps the whole machine running. It is this person that forces the line (cooks) through an almost impossible dinner rush. Watching a true "chef" work, at his craft, is a thing of beauty, and what he/she creates, through his/her cooks, under less than ideal circumstances, is amazing.


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## eds77k5

a chef is the person in charge of the kitchen, as kuan said, the leader, but keep in mind that there are a lot of kitchen managers out there, for some reason they get paid less. can you be the chef and be the only one working in the kitchen? a lot of gray areas i guess. i respect the title and position even if i do not respect the person. i get called by my given name and out of respect for my position i get called chef. good luck on your venture :chef:


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## burnvictim

youre a chef when your employees call you "chef."


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## rivitman

When push comes to shove, when all is said and done, if you bear the final, ultimate responsibilty for the plate that is set before the guest...You my friend, are the chef.


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## crusso

You can technically call yourself a Chef the minute you are the person responsible for everything that goes on in the kitchen you are in charge of.

Another thing many Chefs do is get professional certification. By doing this you don't have to wonder if you should call yourself a chef, you have a professional organization who will do that for you.

Two organizations come to mind, although there are other options.

The American Culinary Federation has certification levels. See their web site at: www.acfchefs.org

CC = Cerified Culinarian
CSC = Certified Sous Chef
CCC = Certified Chef de Cuisine
CEC = Certified Executive Chef
CMC = Certified Master Chef (only 59 in the U.S.)

There are also certifications for educators, and in Baking and Pastry, i.e.
CEPC = Certified Executive Pastry Chef
CPS = Certified Pastry Chef
CMPC = Certified Master Pastry Chef

Generally, you couple at least three years of working in the industry with the title you are attempting to become certified in, and couple that with classes in Sanitation, Nutrition, and Management (all of which you will have had from Johnson & Wales University). You don't have to become an ACF member to do this, but it cost more if you are not. You arrange to take a written test, and a practical test. All the information about what to study and how to do this is on their web site. They also have a toll-free number.

Another organization with certification is: International Food Service Executives Association (IFSEA). The offer several levels of certification 
including: CFM [Certified Food Service Manager], CFE [Certified Food Service Executive], and CMFE [Certified Master Foodservice Executive] (I'm not sure if this last one is correct). You can visit their web site at: www.ifsea.com

Having a professional certification (letters after your name), can be a good thing, and does tell people that you have '*****strated' that you are a chef, and are not just calling yourself a chef.

Obviously, there are some people who call themselves 'chefs' after working as a line cook for a couple of years. That would be a 'cook.' As we know, being a chef involves wearing many different hats, certainly knowing how to cook and bake, but also how to develop menus, purchase, inventory, make a profit, market, solve problems, hire, train, motivate, fire, and much much more.

There are Working Chefs, and Executive Chefs, and Sous Chefs, and Banquet Chefs, so learn which kind of chef you will be and label yourself accordingly.

Certification is certainly a recommended activity for you, and it will keep you learning long after you leave J&W.

Good luck to you!

Chef Carmine J. Russo, CCC, CCE
TVI Culinary Arts (New Mexico)

PS: There are plenty of fabulous chefs in the world who are not certified, and in many cases, they are as knowledgable and talented as any of the certified chefs; a person can have a successful career either way, but certification is something to achieve and be proud of.


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## danbrown

Guys, I think you've forgotten something very important. In the classical system, Chef de Partie was a title given to line cooks, as the person responsible for the production in that station, and those titles still exist in European kitchen today. Therefore any professional cook who has graduated from the ranks of being a commis has earned the title Chef. As to Executive Chef, that's an American invention, and speaking as someone who has held that title, you wind up being an administrative paper pusher, at which point it's better to have the title "bean counter" since that's quite literally what you're doing. 

Quoting the ACF guidelines may be a very good point, but remember, the ACF isn't the institution responsible for every chef's certification in this country, and with what's happening in their guidelines (lower standards to make more chefs) I'm not sure the ACF should be garnering the level of respect it has in the past. A Chef is a reflection of their committment to excellence, and one's quality of life can be seen as a direct equation to that committment. The semantic question is, for all intents and purposes, silly. Wether or not you treat the title with respect determines how seriously you feel it should be taken. If you are the person that everyone comes to with food related questions that need definitive answers, and you're the one responsible for every error that occurs in your kitchen, and you are the creative driving force behind your food production, and you are leading by example, not voice, in your kitchen, then you are the Chef. But realize, that just means head dishwasher, so you'd better be the best dishwasher you employ.

Flame away.


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## al_dente

If I was to ponder my position to such a heavy degree, then dinner would be late and I would be a ditch digger. Get the job done, do it with heart and feeling and understanding. If they call you chef...smile and accept the compliment.


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## kuan

Disagree with the lower standards point Dan. Today's CEC's run circles around the last generation of CEC's. In the past, you were awarded your CEC based solely on ACF participation. Then they introduced classes, tests, and experience points. Now they have practicals. To me it looks like they're raising the bar.


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## chefoliver

When you learn not to lean but rather to stand. 

:chef:


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## 6003

As i'm based in the UK so i'm not sure whether my views would be as valid as others. However, it looked as if your question was concerned with the kind of establishment you will be working in rather than your level of skills.
Am i wrong about this?

In the UK you can call yourself 'chef' when you get up in the morning and say to yourself "i think i'll try the catering industry today" and others will call themselves "chef" who had completed a five year apprenticeship and been in charge of a brigade of 60 chefs (like a friend of mine i currently work with on vairous projects).

In these cases the term becomes minimal and is more influenced by the place of work than the persons' skills. In the UK if you work in a cake shop, or bakery etc you would be less likely to use the term. 

Having said all that my advice would be "do what you want to". Market forces will show you the way in the future maybe!

Hope all goes well.

Jerry


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## davidsl

I always thought that the one who runs the kitchen, creates the menus, completes the ordering, and takes ultimate responsibility for the food in the establishment's kitchen is a chef. Based upon that determination, I call myself the chef and my wife the executive chef at our restaurant. My wife gets the executive nod because she has been designated as the one who make final decisions when we have an opinion difference. (It is important to have this agreement to avoid drawn out arguments in our busy kitchen.) We both have cooked since childhood but do not have culinary school degrees. 

Reading some opinions would lead me to believe that I can only be a chef if I have a culinary degree and cook French food at my restaurant. I don't agree. The food we serve is a choice and does not represent our maximum ability. It represents the type of food that someone would come to my establishment to purchase -- and we are doing OK. The food that I cook for myself at home and at my restaurant can be quite exotic (or quite simple.) I don't choose to offer these things to my customers. I don't choose (right now) to have that type of restaurant.

My wife has a friend who graduated from Le Cordon Bleu who runs a BBQ corn stand at fairs. Is he a chef? Yes. Another friend without a culinary degreee cooks food for wholesale distribution in a commercial kitchen. Is she a chef? Yes.

The culinary institutes that charge 40K are trying to make many people believe that that is the only way to learn to cook and become a chef. I read books, watch TV chefs (dating back into the 1970's) and experiment. I know what taste combinations work and which ones don't. I don't need a degree to substantiate my tastes or my dishes.

Just my opinion.


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## 6003

Hi

Somewhere in the replies someone suggested coming up with a definition of a chef. 

That sounded a good idea but before a definition we need to identify what the job entails?


I've started a list for a theoretical head/executinve chef and wonder what else could be added.

Cooking!
Budgetary control and costing.
Management of Chemicals
Equipment purchase and maintenance.
First Aid.
Food safety.
Forecasting.
Health and safety at work.
Induction of staff.
Menu planning.
Pest control.
Personnel issues.
Portion control.
Purchasing.
Quality control.
Recipe creation.
Security.
Storage control.
Staff care.
Staff selection.

Jerry

PS, there is a related issue of what i think is called job title inflation.
I was working in a four star hotel in 1964 and for the first time ever i met someone who described himself as an executive chef. He didn't wear a hat because i think that he thought his job was administrative. As far as the UK is concerned we've had job title inflation for years. Chef instructors now Directors! I do still feel however that the description CHEF should convey some level of skill.


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## michalik

I am not a chef,just a dedicated home cook(35y).When at age of 16 I expressed my interest in professional cooking ,my aunt who was the sous chef in a parisian brasserie,took me with her on a education tour.After being tucked out of the way in a tight place(don't move,don't talk,just disappear)I witnessed a very impressive rendition of Dente's inferno complete with flames,screaming & tears.Useless to say my dreams of chefdom came to a screeching halt.But I learned aw,fear&respect for the peoples working in professional kitchen.I also understood why she refused to cook for the family when asked.It would have been like asking a front line vet on r&r to go target shooting to relax.Hats off to the heroes.


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## poobear01

well i would say you can call your self a chef once you have had more experiance in the trade. im known as a second chef and it has taken me 13 years to get there and it wont be long till i get to head chef but for now i would say you were just a cook but i might be wrong.


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## culinarygeek

I found that when I had to fire the dishwasher on a Friday night for stealing and whole PSMO, then had to work the dish pit for the next 6 hours, alternating between the line, the dining room and the dish pit (changing jackets between of course), that is when my staff starting calling me CHEF. You have to earn that title. Many of the people I went to culinary school with (CIA '03) thought they would be a chef the day they graduated, but that is just not the case. 

From day 1, walk into any situation, roll up your sleeves and get in it with the prep cooks, the dishwasher, the line cooks, and the weird guy that does the breads. You will find you will earn their respect very fast, and with it the right to call yourself "Chef" :chef: 

Good Luck, Chef,  and God Speed

Chef Bill


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## hfxchef

I believe you're a Chef when you deserve to be called a Chef.


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## chefsbb

I have about 13 years exp. started on the line, went to culinary school moved up to Sous Chef after years on the line. I run my own operation people call me Chef and I feel like I have earned it through my exp.Also a member of the A.C.F C.C.C. But no one that has ever worked for me has called me a Pompous A** but there are some out there. 

Somethings are better earned than given.


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## ironchefms

hi gang, im new to this forum and this particular topic caught my eye. i can see that there is a lot of opinion thrown out with a good deal of fact to back it up, so id like to throw in my 2 cents and maybe one of you could follow up with my thinking. i graduated with a bachelors degree in interior and urban design, i went to school to be a builder and to eventually restore old pre-civil war structures here in the south. anyway, my career path has landed me in a position in one of our largest architectural firms in MS. as not only chief designer, but project manager. now, where am i going with this? hang on, im getting there. i have been referred to as an architect, my boss calls me one, clients call me one and associates, likewise, BUT! i am not a graduate of an accredited architecture program. i am not eligible to take the NCARB, the architectural registration exam, so by law in the state of mississippi and 98% of the rest of the states in this great nation of ours, i cant legally market myself as an architect. do i have 10+ years in this profession? yes i do, have i interned under some of the most brilliant architectural minds in the southeast and beyond? i have. do i know everything there is to know about architecture? absolutly not, but am i good at what i do? my opinion is yes, basing that on a proven track record of profitability and performance. But, can i be called an architect? NO! that, folks is the law, fortunatly, culinary arts is a little different, If you are passionate and devoted to your culinary craft and have the willingness to learn, accept new challenges, abide by a higher standard and your training is in line with a set criteria designed by experts in the field, and only after meeting those set criteria and earning your mark, then i think you should wear the "chef" hat with pride. my two cents, take it or leave........


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## organizedchaos

Am I a chef?

Not by credentials. However, after over 10 years of living in the trenches of the kitchen, I'm fairly confident in my skills.

Sure, I may not have any formal training. I may not have spent any time in a registered educational facility. But I have worked under some fantastic chefs. I have learned from my successes, and also from my mistakes. I'm now in a position where I command the helm of the most popular restaurant in a community that is overcrowded with restaurants. I know I'm a good cook. People tell me that all the time. I let my head and my chest swell for a moment, but then I remember the reason why I'm really there. It's not for the recognition. It's for the love of food. Period. (Well, also the fact that I'm a bit of an adrenaline junky)

Call me "chef" if you so desire. But that's up to you. I'll accept the title, but I don't expect it.


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## dean

Better to be a good cook any day than be called chef!


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## davidsl

I was thinking about this some more. This question comes up a lot on various chef discussion boards. Am I a chef? Do I care? I love to cook and invent with food. I don't have classical training. I have done much classical cooking. I read many cook books. I own a restuarant. We've won an award.

I run the kitchen from the bottom up. I cook, I order, I administrate, I take orders, I serve, I clean toilets and dishes, I review financial statements, I take deliveries, I sweep and mop floors, I vacuum, I deal with contractors, I do payroll, I clean and fix equipment and more. Some days I do everything and some days I do nothing. 

I have two business oriented college degrees. I don't have a culinary degree. Most recently before owning a restuarant I was a corporate VP finance geek. Did I care about that? No, I hated it, but the experience helps me run my food business. 

After further thought I've changed my mind from my earlier post. I'm not a chef. I may never be a chef. I'm a good cook who made the right financial decisions and was able to buy a new profession. I'm going to attend a culinary school for additional classical training. I love to cook and invent with food. I always have. I don't need a title to love my profession.

Love what you do and forget the title.

Wow, what a ramble.


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## sarge

Your business, you are the Chef!

I would much rather be known as a good cook because there are plenty of chefs who can't!


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## skitty

If I am wearing a coat and checks and I'm out at the grocery store, someone will always come up and ask, "So, are you a Chef?" My stock answer was, "No, I work for a living." No civilian got the joke, ever. 
The irony? After getting frustrated with the industry (I did my 2 years in Culinary School and held every crap job imaginable....), I went back to college to finish my Chem degree. Yesterday, the GM of a small Country Club called and offered me the Chef job. I took it and told him, "I'm not the Chef, just the line cook who orders stuff and fires people." He's also letting me finish my degree. I know, what's the point? There isn't one. I've worked for people that have the title of Chef, but not the skills and I've worked with prep cooks that know more and truly care about food than I ever will. If this jobs work out, I'll just be Megan, cool line chick that has the ability to give you the day off.
BTW: The person I am replacing called him/her self Chef, this person graduated from culinary school yesterday and was fired today. This person did not take care of the clubs members and ran off favorite front staff, this person REFUSED to put the ticket in the window w/a completed order b/c the waitstaff "should know" what their food and its appropriate grouping should look like............


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## tiny chef

When I picked a screen name for this site, I meant no offense to anyone who as worked for years to earn the title 'Chef'. I am just a student now but I ispire to be the best I can. I have endless respect for those who teach me and realize that when I am 60+ I will still be learning new things. Hats off to everyone who has worked for it and I hope to be with you one day!

~Emily


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## panini

Tiny,
No need to worry. I have seen this question go round and round many times. The plain truth is that we don't have accredited professional standards as in other countries. Until we get there, anyone can be a chef. All groups out there are really clubs and not interested in our profession to become a certified professionals. We won't see it in our life time. There will never be lisenced chefs. This is the number one reason for not letting my son into this industry.
All, please don't respond with, there are lousy lawyers and CPA's.
Tiny, feel free to use the chefs title.


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## foodpump

Amen to that.


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## chefmichelle8

I completely agree with you here. I went to culinary school, and worked countless hours to do so, then started working as one. So I proudly call myself a Chef, as a doctor would be a doctor, as an engineer would be an engineer, etc. I appreciate you saying these kind words, it is good to hear that someone has their facts straight


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## chefmichelle8

This is also very insulting to me and my profession. I work hard to call myself a Chef. I don't waltz around introducing myself as Chef, that would be pompus; nor does any Chef I know. But in my profession, if someone asked me what I did or what did I go to school for, I tell them I am a Chef, who went to Culinary School.

I am proud to be a Chef, and it is not in any way shape or form fat headed. I am what I am, and I wouldn't demean anyone elses title.


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## panini

Chefmichelle8.

      What are you agreeing to?  and what were you insulted about?

I'm just curious, because the posts are are older. I'm interested though. Has anything changed in 7 yrs?

pan


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## petemccracken

chefmichelle8 said:


> I completely agree with you here. I went to culinary school, and worked countless hours to do so, then started working as one. So I proudly call myself a Chef, as a doctor would be a doctor, as an engineer would be an engineer, etc. I appreciate you saying these kind words, it is good to hear that someone has their facts straight


A doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc., is a professional, the same as a professional cook.

A doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc., MAY become a Chief Executive Officer, or other Chief just as a professional cook MAY become a Chef (French for Chief).

Going to culinary school trains one to cook and may lead to becoming a professional cook, but in no way prepares one to be a chef. Going to business school or surviving in the business world may train one to take on the role of Chief (or Chef), but there are no guarantees.

Chief (or Chef) is a title, generally earned, it is NOT a profession!

Unless one is in charge of a station, kitchen, group of kitchens, or otherwise have the overall responsibility for the management of a food enterprise, one is not a Chef, IMHO.


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## petemccracken

Oh, one can never call them-self a Chef, only others may do that /img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif


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## chefet

In my opinion you can call yourself a chef when you hold that position. Otherwise you are a line cook, or "cook". I hate those people who call them chefs when they are line cooks and so on. But, this has been the widely debated topic of many. But if you are owning your own business and making things happen with no one telling you what to do, then rock on Chef.


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## foodpump

A-yup

The best way to define this thing is the "acid test" as follows:

A "Cook" is judged by what they put on a plate

A "Chef" is judged by how they run a kitchen.

End of discussion


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## jeff scott

*who can answer my question i have been working as a chef /cook for over 30 years but cant call myself a chef has i have no qulifcations how can i get my life experance grade *


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## softkitty916

I am a Culinary Student. So when are you considered a Chef and not just a professional cooK? A Culinarian...if you will?


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## laurenlulu

IMO a chef is the one responsible for the kitchen as in ordering, bookkeeping, scheduling, budgets and when the shit hits the fan If people come looking for you to straighten it out.. You're the chef. Chef = Chief


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## mrglacier

To Chef Ed,

Hate to say it, but as much as you espouse loving the life of being a chef, there does seem a tad bit of bitterness in your words. It's almost as if being a chef stole your life from you and you are just enjoying your time at the top before (because it seems apparent you don't save for retirement) you go all the way back down to the bottom. 

And then I realized....this post was 12 years old LMAO


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## softkitty916

ok...now I am a little confused...so is that why sometimes the "Executive Chef" doesn't even really cook but is in charge of the administrative duties?


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## foodpump

softkitty916 said:


> I am a Culinary Student. So when are you considered a Chef and not just a professional cooK? A Culinarian...if you will?


When?

When you are responsible for the food cost and labour cost of the kitchen.

Thats when.

O.K. Lets move along folks, thats all there is to this decidedly N.american age old question.


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## clairelv

it is not easy to be a real chef !!  i like chef .


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## znrctrnn

I would ask one of your chef instructors this question. I would use their estimation of your skill in determining whether you should call yourself chef. I am mostly curious if you have experience in sales. Catering of course involves a strong sales talent.


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## foodpump

znrctrnn said:


> I would ask one of your chef instructors this question. I would use their estimation of your skill in determining whether you should call yourself chef. I am mostly curious if you have experience in sales. Catering of course involves a strong sales talent.


You aren't making a whole lot of sense.

Sales is sales, and running a kitchen is running a kitchen. If you do both, you'll fail at one, and have p.o.'d customers. True, many Chefs go on to sales-after leaving the kitchen, but they can't do both well at the same time.

But then again, I'm not a beverage expert......


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## phaedrus

Pretty impressive run of zombie thread resurrections lately! Since this one has risen from the grave I'll chime in. "Chef" is simply the French word for "leader" or "head"..."boss" if you will. If you're the boss, you're the chef. Pretty simple. I get that the word gets thrown around a lot and most of the time it's improperly used (or used colloquially to describe anyone that cooks). Knowing this place someone will probably be along soon to say that the word has now "evolved" doesn't mean _boss _anymore.../img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif


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## seabeecook

Phaedrus said:


> ... "Chef" is simply the French word for "leader" or "head"..."boss" if you will. If you're the boss, you're the chef. ...


The head of the artillery in the French army is called the "chef de l'artillerie."


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## hotinside

I am currently employed in a "yes chef" restaurant, where we are expected to address every other BOH employee as "chef".   Most of the employees (both BOH and FOH) have 5+ years experience in the industry, in varying capacities.  Granted, you say "chef" with a slightly different emphasis when referring to the exec, sous, or CDC, but we're all "chefs" at this place. It lends itself to a more professional atmosphere.  Don't really have a point in saying this. just wanted to chime in with a different perspective.


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## chefbillyb

A post from 2005 a lot of water under the bridge. I wonder what the OP would say about it now. My stock answer to all the cooks wanting to be Chefs was, you can call yourself a Chef anytime  you want. But somewhere along the line your going to need to prove it.........


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## someday

Pete /img/vbsmilies/smilies/frown.gif

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/drinkbeer.gif


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## neworleanscookj

I have a neighbor at my apartment complex who always introduces me as a chef, it drives me crazy as I am only two and a half years in as a cook. Granted seven years in F.O.H. quietly observing from the wings and cooking at home has given me an edge I'm still just a cook. Having seen Owner/Chefs, Kitchen Managers, Sous and CDC's and what their responsibilities entail makes me far too humble to call myself a chef. But my neighbor is a sweet, slightly throwed off, older lady. So I always have to get all modest when she introduces me to someone /img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif, especially if they work in the service industry as well lol. Same thing happens when someone mentions to someone that I (*At a whopping 122lbs and a towering 5'7"!* ) am a former Marine (Yeah 8 years ago when I was 19, for all of 8 months before an honorable discharge at only E-2 with no deployment or M.O.S training) lol.


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## laurenlulu

It's nice to have another New Orleans/South LA native here, there are a few of us about. From NOLA and Thibodaux. A friend of mine was a grill cook at Comanders and gave me one of his embroidered coats, love it! The people here in NC don't even know what Commanders is


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## neworleanscookj

Yeah I haven't seen too many south Louisiana users on this forum, so likewise from N.O. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/thumb.gif. I would love to tour Commander's Palace's kitchen at least once. I don't think I could work there anytime soon, seems to me you better have everything set right in your life to attempt a run with them. Maybe I'll give them a shot after around 5 more years, hopefully I'll have grown up abit by then, *sigh* I'ma miss my 20s /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smoking.gif


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## Hank

Hmmm, I thought a chef was anyone who wrote a food blog /img/vbsmilies/smilies/rollsmile.gif


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## chefwalt

When you can cook for 100 people, put a smile on their face and not poison any of them.


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## foodpump

Thank you for that classic definition, "home chef".

Thing is, a kitchen is part of a business, and a business by it's very definition needs to make money.

_*If the one in charge of the kitchen can't make a buck for the business, or at least keep it from loosing money, then that person won't be around for very long. *_

That's just life. And practical business procedure

Thus, you're a Chef when you're responsible for food and labour costs of your kitchen. If you are not responsible for this, then you are a cook.

What can I say? 20 million food/hospitality related businesses can't be wrong.


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## chefwalt

I got dat, But Chef means chief. A commercial Chef that goes in every day and runs the business end of a big food operation fits well, but not exclusively, when I am running two to three hundred pounds of brisket, or thirty gallons of etouffe, I am the go to chief.


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## foodpump

No..... If you are purchasing that brisket, getting the best prices from suppliers, aware and controlling trim loss, cooking loss, and are selling it without any waste, and making money, then you are the Chef.  If someone does most of those duties for you, and you are only cooking it--albeit with minimal trim and cooking loss, then you are a cook. 

Contrary to N. American media beliefs, there is no shame in the word "Cook".  Just as there is no shame in being a head coach of a NFL team, and no shame in being a star quarterback for that same NFL team.  Both are very important positions.   

True, there are Chefs who sit in an office all day.  However there are many more chefs who work the line, train and instruct, do the purchasing, hiring, and are responsible for food and labour costs.


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## iridium12

I'm with foodpump on this 

A Chef is in charge of the kitchen whereas a cook is in charge of his or her station.

Of course, once you move into the bigger hotels then even the Chef or Exec. Chef will have little to do with purchasing (as this will be done via the purchasing department in order to get the best deals - as they don't only buy food but everything the hotel needs).

Still - the Chef or Exec. Chef still needs to work closely with said purchasing department to make sure they don't just buy 2000lbs of quinoa with nothing to go with it 

Simply put, in all my years working in the industry, you are a cook as long as it is not your responsibility to manage the food cost 

As for the OP's question - it is your business. Technically you are responsible for every aspect of it.

I would rather go with the title Owner (as that is really what you are) but if it gives you an edge, sure, go with Chef.

Don't think anyone will challenge you based on that.


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## chrysfox

ChefWalt said:


> When you can cook for 100 people, put a smile on their face and not poison any of them.


Done that, but I don't consider myself a chef, by any means. Head Kitchener, maybe /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif

I've 'technically' filled the position, having researched, planned, shopped for, and run a kitchen for several community events quite a few years ago.

But I'm not in the same ballpark - or even league - with those who do that every day on a professional basis.


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## chefwalt

Thanks for putting me in my place. I would have signed up as Walt, but it was taken. Glad you are all proud of your title.... Sign me Chef Walt.


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## chefbuba

ChefWalt said:


> Thanks for putting me in my place. I would have signed up as Walt, but it was taken. Glad you are all proud of your title.... Sign me Chef Walt.


Per management......At the top of the page.........

This forum is reserved for current and past professional chefs only. Only professionals in the food industry may post here though all are free to read.


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## iridium12

@chefbuba

Not quite sure what you mean by that - care to elaborate?

Thanks


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## cheflayne




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## iridium12

Thanks for the clarification on that one - wasn't sure what was meant 

Then all is good with the world again


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## cheesecake1

[No message]


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## cheesecake1

Who loves to cook?


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## foodpump

Cheesecake1 said:


> Who loves to cook?


Oh dear..... If cheflayne has to repeat what he just said two posts above, he's gonna lock you up in the walk in cooler and turn off the lights.....


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## cheesecake1

Hi dee here withwholehearted feelings. Just to respond is an honor. Thank u


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## cheflayne

With all respect, this forum is for professionals. Whether it is an honor or not for you, responses are limited to professionals. Any future responses from you in the professional forum, will be deleted, in keeping with forum policy. There are plenty of other forums on ChefTalk that you are welcomed and encouraged to respond on. Your understanding on this matter would be greatly appreciated.


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## 2chefdup

I sold my business to spend time with my family after my second child and went to help a friend a few months later.
They had lost the chef who everyone said was amazing.
My distaste was his 110k salary vs the next guys 13an hour, but that's a different story.
It just so happened we would joke around and also talk about how they would only have 1 chef, and wouldn't call me it even if there was a fire.
But after working under me they got to see all that I was capable of, and respected me more. I ended up parting ways with the business, and got a few jobs and some to follow me. They all consider me a chef I believe after battling in the trenches with me.

I personally don't use titles as anyone can be bound to do great things, plus you have to answer way more phone calls and ignore so many less people when you have a title.
And I would call someone chef or dr. Or whatever they ask to be called out of respect for what they believe.

But for me saying it's about time put in or tests is a flawed system.
Not everyone gets the same knowledge out of the time they put in, and not everyone is good at testing,school, etc. they may have nerves of steel in the kitchen but give them a pencil and they are like the first caveman to see fire


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## chefgardemanger

Im a chef garde manger and had the title of chef de cuisine for 3 years. After returning to my home town and now working in a small restaurant I no longer have the title of CDc but my title of chef garde manger stands firm as that is what defy me yet to top it I am a charcuturie connoisseur and that is my achievement so call yourself what you want but when duty calls your name then deliver or be shamed


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