# BOH vs FOH



## cronker (Mar 3, 2016)

In my experience, it's not uncommon for there to be a nasty divide between BOH and FOH.
Front need their customers to be happy and sated, back need to be able to complete their tasks as required.

In many of my restaurants, I have encouraged a more holistic approach whereby each understand the strains on the other. I am perhaps amongst the few front of house who understand and have a good relationship with my chefs.

I tell my wait staff to think about the concerns of the chef, and vice versa. It works.

What say you?
(Don't turn this into a bitch fest, we are all trying to achieve the same goal!)


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

If you do a search within the archives, you'll find this was hashed out a few times. It always turns into a bitch fest each time.


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

I'm not going to get into all the crap that happens between the FOH and BOH it's been going on for years. I began my career managing restaurants. I spent all my time on the floor and helping the flow of meals from the front line. The only way of solving that problem is by having a buffer on the pickup side of the line. This person understands both sides and keeps things flowing at a normal pace. This person understands when something goes wrong the cook can't cook the food any faster with the waitstaff breathing down their necks. You will never get 15 waitstaff and 10 kitchen staff working together like it's a Broadway play. When something goes wrong in the dining room a good manager knows just by looking at peoples faces. If customers are looking around they need something. I have interacted in 1000's of situations in dining rooms. I think it's a never-ending  battle to get this kind of harmony. To make sure it happens I would still rather be on the floor insuring that it does......Chef Bill

P.S. You will never get respect and harmony if you perceive that both sides are professionals. How would anyone respect the views of waitstaff when they were hired off the street with little or no food experience. In most cases waitstaff are hired by appearance and personality. In most cases those aren't on the top 10 list for hiring a front line cook.


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

> P.S. You will never get respect and harmony if you perceive that both sides are professionals. How would anyone expect the views of waitstaff when they were hired off the street with little or no food experience. In most cases waitstaff is hired by appearance and personality. In most cases those aren't on the top 10 list for hiring a front line cook.


Well said, Chef. Especially that last sentence.

The most effective "buffer" you speak of that I've found is the position of expediter. One who stands at the

pass receiving plates from the Chef, finishes them and approves them for the server to take to the table.

They are the go-between, the liaison between the cook and the server. If properly done, the server will rarely

talk directly to the chef. If there's a problem, rather than rag on the cook, the server tells the expediter and

they in turn deal with the kitchen if necessary.

In many restaurants the server serves as their own expediter. With this system, fightin' ensues.

I love sitting at the counter during busy lunches, just watching the tensions boil, and about a third of the time,

I get to see a verbal fight between server and cook. (I tend to take the cooks side of course. lol)

And from what Ive seen, most all of these could've been avoided with the addition of an expediter position.


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## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

Meezenplaz said:


> Well said, Chef. Especially that last sentence.
> 
> The most effective "buffer" you speak of that I've found is the position of expediter. One who stands at the
> 
> ...


Yes. Expediters are crucial. But It must be said that it's a _team effort_. Every member plays a role. Communication is key. When you start valuing one team member over another, or engaging in divisive behavior, then problems arise. Understand the value of role players as well as the superstars.


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

Meezenplaz said:


> Well said, Chef. Especially that last sentence.
> 
> The most effective "buffer" you speak of that I've found is the position of expediter. One who stands at the
> 
> ...


I took my Son to a good steak house in Seattle a few years ago. The waiter came to the table and tried to be slick. He gave us the special cut steaks of the night menu. He said, I recommend the bone in filet mignon, they take the steak and cook it to perfection with the bone marrow sizzling on the open broiler for extra flavor. I asked him how he would accomplish that when I order my steak rare. He didn't answer and I didn't push it. The other comment I love is when I ask the waitstaff how a dish is and they say, I don't know I don't eat here.

The buffer/expediter does wonders. This way there is only one person dealing with the cooks. Not someone who doesn't know anything that goes on behind the lines.


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## kaiquekuisine (Apr 11, 2013)

ChefBillyB said:


> I'm not going to get into all the shit that happens between the FOH and BOH it's been going on for years. I began my career managing restaurants. I spent all my time on the floor and helping the flow of meals from the front line. The only way of solving that problem is by having a buffer on the pickup side of the line. This person understands both sides and keeps things flowing at a normal pace. This person understands when something goes wrong the cook can't cook the food any faster with the waitstaff breathing down their necks. You will never get 15 waitstaff and 10 kitchen staff working together like it's a Broadway play. When something goes wrong in the dining room a good manager knows just by looking at peoples faces. If customers are looking around they need something. I have interacted in 1000's of situations in dining rooms. I think it's a never-ending battle to get this kind of harmony. To make sure it happens I would still rather be on the floor insuring that it does......Chef Bill
> 
> P.S. You will never get respect and harmony if you perceive that both sides are professionals. How would anyone respect the views of waitstaff when they were hired off the street with little or no food experience. In most cases waitstaff are hired by appearance and personality. In most cases those aren't on the top 10 list for hiring a front line cook.


 So true...

At least once a week i may get to witness a verbal arguement between wait staff and BOH. And at least 4-5 times a week someone gets the death glare.

I usually avoid bickering with the waitstaff. Especially because i tend to expidite a lot, and the waitstaff knows not to play with me when im on the pass. If they screw up an order even after i deliberately repeat to them to what table the food is going to, well then i just hold it in, until the end of service and handle it as calmly as possible.

Most of the time waitstaff is told what to say to the customers, almost like actors reading a script. They hardly know what the dish there serving tastes like. And yeah i definitely agree sometimes they are hired based on appearence. Of course though me having worked FOH for a while before working in BOH i always try to help them out and share some knowledge, but sometimes you just get those darlings that think they know more then you, even though they have sh** palettes, and almost no experience. Not generalizing though, because i have seen some pretty good waiters out there, but i can also testify i have seen more bad waiters then good ones...


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

Many many places do not have the expediter to liaison between the kitchen and FOH and therein lies the propensity for conflict.


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

It really starts with management.  The most cohesive places that I have worked at, the management understood, completely, that for a customer to have a great experience the staff had to work as a team.  To that end, all management (chef, sous chef, dining room manager, bar manager) spent some time in the other's domain learning it.  I wouldn't say it was "cross-training" as the training didn't last that long.  It was more of an introduction.  It created an atmosphere where management didn't tolerate the blame and trash talking that often goes on between FOH and BOH.  Sure some of that still went on, but when management doesn't "condone" that sort of thing by ignoring it, which is what usually happens, you'd be surprised how well FOH & BOH can get along.  When something went wrong, there was no blame placed, or fought over (unless management decided that the issue was caused by negligence).  Together we would solve the issues to ensure that the guests got the best experience possible, even if there were mistakes made.


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

Chefross said:


> Many many places do not have the expediter to liaison between the kitchen and FOH and therein lies the propensity for conflict.


I learned very quickly that expediter and FOH manager talked, kitchen staff and FOH communicated through these appointed persons. A team to give the guest the best possible experience is what works best. I also found that if there was a problem to fix it and review after the service was over.


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## cronker (Mar 3, 2016)

Well, I work in Australia where tips are uncommon and just appreciated as a sign of exceptional work. We have a good wage for waiters. One of the things that this system eliminates is the waitstaff having to whore themselves out to the customer, or chef, just to make a living.
It just surprises me when the chef is being a dick, and still expects the waitstaff to sell his special of lamb brains or sweetmeats.
I worked with a chef who thought he was Gordon Ramsay, and swore and yelled at everyone.
It was an open kitchen, so all the guests could hear him.

I had so many complaints from customers about his salty language and frankly, poor food. But he reported me to management for bad staff relations and I got fired.
Sometimes, the back of house never get to hear the guest reactions to their food because the FOH are too afraid to honestly report back.


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## cronker (Mar 3, 2016)

Oh, and don't worry, I'm as tough as any chef. I regard my work as professional as any chef out there, and I wasn't recruited off the street for my looks. I've learned my trade the hard way, like all chefs on here.
The reason you guys are saying about poorly trained, or useless FOH is because it's not a career goal for many people nowadays. When I started, it was a viable option to be a hospo professional In the front. No one wants to do it now, because they believe we need more marine biologists - IE people who like watching fish tanks.
Even some of the fine diners I've visited have only average wait staff. I agree, it's come from management and training. But, be honest, it's a decline in the kitchen too.
We have reality television award winners running restaurants without a clue. We have very average chefs putting out meals that really aren't worth the price, and as I said above, we have pretender Ramsay's running around yelling to make "theatre" out of the dining experience.


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

Is your salty language necessary?  If your guests did not like the chefs salty language why would those visiting cheftalk like yours?


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## rndmchef (Mar 16, 2016)

Why does FOH not put in the same effort the BOH does in the majority of kitchens? (Very high end places, like Per Se or simply restaurants with a great FOH manager are the exception...)

How many people grow up thinking, "I want to be a server when I grow up! I'm gonna go to college to learn to be a waiter Mom and Dad!!"
I've never heard that....

However, I've wanted to be a chef since I was 11 or 12 years old . And I still have the same desire and passion for it; money is 3rd or 4th priority, thus I can go to work and not care about making $11/hr in 2016, I know I'm learning more of my craft/passion everyday.

*For MANY servers, it's simply a job while going to college or to make some quick EASY money*. For many line cooks, they hope to become head chef or maybe even open their own restaurants some day ..

Also, servers have higher tendency to get frustrated when they're not making good money; then their work ethic might, maybe not be as good...


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

_Just keep walking, Phaedrus...just keep walking_.../img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif Okay, I can't! I don't think the common tropes are true. IMO places where FoH or BoH are doing wildly different levels of work are merely poorly run restaurants, not evidence that one works harder than the other. As a chef who once tried to be a waiter I'd say that it's just as much work to wait tables as it is to cook. The work is different, that's true. But not easier.

These situations are more indications of poor management than differences in the jobs. JMOHO.


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## grande (May 14, 2014)

I've got a lot of respect for professional servers and have worked with some good ones. As for arguments, not necassary. If you need something, I have 3 answers: I can do that, I can't do that, you need to charge. Ego doesn't come into it.
My job is to get food to the customers; customers come there to be taken care of. To be waited on. To be served. After twelve years of doing this, I've got no illusions about why people eat at the places I cook, and it's because the want a solid good meal, not so I can tell them what temp to get their steak, or that they need a palette cleanser before dessert. I FEED people. And if somebody wasn't waiting on them, they could eat a McD's, or a taco truck, and get just as full. No servers, no restaurant, no job for Grandé.


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

rndmchef said:


> Why does FOH not put in the same effort the BOH does in the majority of kitchens? (Very high end places, like Per Se or simply restaurants with a great FOH manager are the exception...)
> 
> How many people grow up thinking, "I want to be a server when I grow up! I'm gonna go to college to learn to be a waiter Mom and Dad!!"
> I've never heard that....
> ...


No you don't hear people say "I want to wait tables when I grow up..."

Why is that?

Could it be that we in America take the job too lightly?

Waiting tables IS a noble profession, same as cooking, but rarely is it ever recognized as much.

Why is that?

Cooking and preparing food is as old as time. People gathered together to cook large amounts of food to share.

Somewhere in there, somebody got the idea to offer food as barter for other goods and pretty soon the idea of charging for food and service became real.

Somehow through history the act of cooking and serving food became thought of as peasant work. As time progressed more attention was paid to the proper pay for this work, but not much.

Today we have minimum wage assigned to restaurant workers to wash dishes and wait tables.

Who can live on these wages? Not many. Some have to take 2 more jobs on just to meet expenses.

Without a doubt the $15.00 an hour wage is the new $9.00 an hour of yesterday.

Sure, you're going to hear about McDonalds hamburger flippers making $15.00 an hour and be outraged, but it's coming.


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

With the $15 min wage you will be greeted by a robot hostess that will bring you to your table. The menu "iPad" will take your order that will go directly the kitchen. The front line cooks will be dancing on the front line cooking all the food while singing Kumbaya. As we all know iPads don't make mistakes and if the customer punches in the wrong items it's their fault. The kitchen is laughing their ass off because it's not their fault when something goes wrong and everyone now knows it. The staff of 50 employees is now 15 and has a labor cost of 10% with a Robot upkeep cost 5%. Now all the employees that were happier than a pig in shit that their wages were going up to $15 can't even get a min wage job. After 6 months walking around looking for a job a friend will tell them about this kitchen that is hiring under the table jobs. They'll ask how much their paying for this under the table paying job, the answer is $10 an hr. In 2025 there's a "Robot appreciation day" for keeping all the restaurants in business. All the restaurant owners are singing Kumbaya for surviving a crazy wage increase that could have put many restaurants out of business.





  








Three-robots-behind-the-counter.jpg




__
chefbillyb


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May 15, 2016








For those of you who think the restaurant business can't change read on. This industry is is screaming for a change. In the article below notice the quote that people wanted to eat quickly. 









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In the 1950s and 60s, fast food chains - epitomized by McDonald's - revolutionized the restaurant industry and changed farming and food distribution businesses.

The first McDonald's restaurant was actually a barbecue joint that opened in 1940 by brothers Dick and Maurice (Mac) McDonald along Route 66 in San Bernardino, California. At first, they offered 25 different items served by carhops. They catered to young affluent people who were part of the emerging California car culture. Teens drove up, placed their order with the carhops and were served on trays that hooked onto rolled down windows.

In 1940, The brothers figured out that almost all of their profits were coming the sale of hamburgers. They also sensed that teens and families alike were interested in eating quickly. So, they closed down their restaurant for several months and developed their "Speedee Service System" of food preparation. This was a streamlined assembly line for food. They also streamlined their menu to hamburgers, milkshakes and french fries. The burgers sold for 15-cents, about half of what a burger cost at regular diners of the time. With success, the brothers franchised their enterprise and had eight restaurants open by the early 50s.


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## rndmchef (Mar 16, 2016)

Is service a major part of a restaurant? Obviously. I'm not gonna go back to a restaurant that treated me poorly and didn't respect me as a customer...but, I may order takeout if the food is really good. Most people don't go back to a restaurant with bad tasting food, just because they had a nice server...

That said; people don't go out to eat to meet a new waiter or waitress. "Hey, wanna go out to eat? I'm bored and I kinda want to talk to a nice waitress, I heard Scotty Steakhouse has amazing, very polite and helpful servers. I heard the food is pretty good too, let's go have a good time with a waitress!"

Robots absolutely could/should take over FOH. ..
McD's is already using self checkout in some of their establishments...
That way, we can focus on pumping out amazing food at decently affordable prices and pay BOH decently; making this industry completely different.


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## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

Can someone please make the distinction between three star Michelin joints and fast food? There is a myriad of restaurant types between the two. 

Servers will not go away for formal dining rooms. It's the monarchy privilege that won't be denied. It's built into the economic system we have in place. 

Olive garden is another story. 

But I have questions to those that believe waitstaff should be slave labor, to be abused so that business owners can create and spread the wealth to those that they deem fit.


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

ChefBillyB said:


> With the $15 min wage you will be greeted by a robot hostess that will bring you to your table. The menu "iPad" will take your order that will go directly the kitchen. The front line cooks will be dancing on the front line cooking all the food while singing Kumbaya. As we all know iPads don't make mistakes and if the customer punches in the wrong items it's their fault. The kitchen is laughing their ass off because it's not their fault when something goes wrong and everyone now knows it. The staff of 50 employees is now 15 and has a labor cost of 10% with a Robot upkeep cost 5%. Now all the employees that were happier than a pig in shit that their wages were going up to $15 can't even get a min wage job. After 6 months walking around looking for a job a friend will tell them about this kitchen that is hiring under the table jobs. They'll ask how much their paying for this under the table paying job, the answer is $10 an hr. In 2025 there's a "Robot appreciation day" for keeping all the restaurants in business. All the restaurant owners are singing Kumbaya for surviving a crazy wage increase that could have put many restaurants out of business.


What people need to understand is that ultimately higher wages or no we're moving towards a future with virtually no jobs at all. Period. Full stop. A post-work world. There already few jobs that machines can't do as well or better than a human. It's just economics. Anyone that's studied the issues will see that quantum advances in AI and machinery will make humans superfluous in all fields. Already self driving cars drive better than humans. The last fighter pilots that will ever physically fly in a plane have already been born. A lot of legal docs are already being drafted by computer without humans intervention, and this will increase in the future. Computers already do a better job of diagnosing disease than any doctor can; if a human tried to keep up on all the medical journal articles she'd have to read 30 hours a day 8 days a week, an impossibility. It's not just the ditch diggers that are losing jobs- it's white collar jobs. I don't think most people have any clue at how big the change will be.

If a robot could could a steak better than me and write menus for less money that I make I'd already be gone. That's one reason (and an ironic one) that jobs like mine will probably linger longer than most; it will be a while til robots are as cheap as I am!

What will a post-job economy look like? That's a huge question that our society doesn't even realize is hanging out there. Uber is killing taxis, but imagine when self driving cars reach the point where Uber won't need any humans. When trucks and cars don't have drivers it's not just a million transportation jobs that go away. Think of the hotels and restaurants that cater to travelers. Humans still need to eat but self driving cars don't need to sleep, so increasingly passengers will forego a stop and just catch some zzz's in the car.

So back to the $15 an issue. Right now we have a few people with millions or billions of dollars. We have maybe 80-100 million that don't have a pot to piss in with a small middle class in between. The owners of all the capital in the world continue to consolidate the remaining wealth into an increasingly small coterie, bigger fish eating the smaller ones. One by one the wealthy will be able to cut segment after segment out of the economy through automation and outsourcing. Laws requiring a wage that allows a human to survive and participate in the economy are noble attempts but probably too little and too late to stem the death of capitalism as it's converted to pure oligarchy.

When there is nothing to for the unwashed masses to do, what will we do with our time? Who will buy the products and services offered by the ruling cabal? What would they pay with?

That is the problem I foresee.


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## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

@Phaedrus The world you describe is quite a ways away. I realize the technology, but it will take a while for what you describe to become the norm. You can also count on economic ideology, as well as human error to get their hands into that world as well. I also predict a lot of conflict and violence. Death and destruction, even, during the transition.

The pesky issue of capital vs labor has been at conflict for the last century, and economic theory will be have to be vastly different in a world where machines make your steak. If there is no labor, where will the capital go? What will people do aside from staring into virtual reality goggles and eating vegetables?

But this is science fiction.

The reality today is that there is an artificially imposed class system. As long as the current social system remains in place, the new world will inevitably reflect that. Regardless of robots and technology.


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## rndmchef (Mar 16, 2016)

Let's all continue to cry and whine about why the world sucks and life's not fair....

Maybe one day everything will magically change and we all become millionaires and everybody goes around with a giant smile on their face and world peace is achieved....

Or you could stop crying, get off your lazy butt and make your own future...

Robots are gonna take our jobs? Get flippin real! Get a job or two if you need to, stop complaining, go to work and do your job . 
You sound like the laziest Mofo ever!!!


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## rndmchef (Mar 16, 2016)

If you really want a "Robot" to take over our job, so your philosophy is fulfilled...

Get off your lazy American behind and start making the robots yourself!!! Design the computer software they will need. Manufacturer the metal that will make up the robots... Or just simply write plans and drawings on how the robots will work and how they will look...

You ever heard.... If there's a will, there's a way...? Clearly not. 
Youmust have been told "if there's a problem, just whine about it until you get your way"


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

jake t buds said:


> @Phaedrus The world you describe is quite a ways away. I realize the technology, but it will take a while for what you describe to become the norm. You can also count on economic ideology, as well as human error to get their hands into that world as well. I also predict a lot of conflict and violence. Death and destruction, even, during the transition.
> 
> The pesky issue of capital vs labor has been at conflict for the last century, and economic theory will be have to be vastly different in a world where machines make your steak. If there is no labor, where will the capital go? What will people do aside from staring into virtual reality goggles and eating vegetables?
> 
> ...


That's what I'm getting at. Everyone seems to think they're living at the end of history, that all of the millenia of human progress was prearranged to lead up to their graduation from high school. Here's a news flash (and this is not directed at you, Jake)- the 13.84 billion years since the Big Bang was not designed just to create capitalism. It's not the ultimate economic system, it's just the current one. It will last until the next one. Human kind has had many political and economic systems up til now and if we don't become extinct soon we will have many more. Labor vs Capital has indeed been a long struggle, and it was preceded by many other struggles.

The possible future I describe is not coming in ten years, maybe not twenty. But I think there's a pretty solid chance it will happen in my lifetime. Think of Moore's Law- time and time again it's been predicted that we were right at the end of it but some breakthrough always extends it by another few years. Well decades actually. The future isn't ever as far away as it looks, and once things start to change they can change rapidly. Those of you who are old enough might remember growing up in the Cold War. I had nightmares as a child about nuclear attack (I lived very near some Minuteman missiles silos and 30 miles from one of the biggest SAC bases in the US). Yet the Berlin Wall fell while I was in college and with it the USSR. The world we live in would have been unthinkable 30 years ago. But here we are. Look at gay marriage. Maybe a decade ago it was unthinkable in most places and to advocate for it was extremely dangerous. A couple presidents ago DADT was the rule in the military. Even Clinton said marriage was a special aspect of men and women. Now marriage equality is the law of the land.

Those are just the social issues. Again, for the youngsters here for most of my life a telephone was something that sat in your house on a coffee table. When it rang you actually had to bite the bullet and answer it to see who it was. A computer wasn't something you had at home but your school probably had a few. I was the first chef I knew to have a cell phone. Now even little kids have them.

A lot of the things I've described are not in the far flung future- they're things that have been in use for years. Paralegals still exist of course but millions of docs are created by computer. And millions more are done at home on your own computer with templates. Sophisticated knowledge is being encoded into machine language. Already computers are better at diagnosing things than doctors (although for now they don't make housecalls or go on rounds alone). Computers have not only crushed the best human chess players, they've even defeated the best human Go players, something AI experts didn't think was even on the horizon five years ago. Computers have composed music that art critics have praised (and those critics had no clue that it was composed by an AI). Technology has already greatly changed with economy. How many travel agents do you know now? How many typists do you know in office steno pools? When is the last time you used a phone and talked to the operator? Do you know how many bank tellers there are now vs 20 years ago?

The problem is the friction between social systems created hundreds or even thousands of years ago and technology that is advancing faster than social systems can match. What bathroom can a post-op trans person use? There wasn't any means to change outward signs of sex when my dad was young. How does child support work with several fathers and two lesbian mothers fertilized in vitro? Under common law a man had to accept paternity of his wife's children unless he could prove he was impotent or "over the seas" at the time of conception- now a genetic test can determine parentage easily, yet the law hasn't caught up.

I fear that you're right- change will probably come very painfully. But there is some cause for hope in my earlier example of the fall of Soviet communism. I was stunned to see it happen, largely unseen and without violence. Probably no under under 40 or so can really understand how different the world was before and after.

I am not really worried about my job. I've been busting my ass on the line for most of the last few decades, well over 30 years. I have loved being a chef but I'm certainly a lot closer to the end of my career than the beginning. In all likelihood I'll have hung up my gyutos and either died or retired before my way of life gives way to...whatever comes next. But I hope the world has a plan in place before it's needed, not after.


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

rndmchef said:


> Maybe one day everything will magically change and we all become millionaires and everybody goes around with a giant smile on their face and world peace is achieved....


That fantasy is what keeps the whole rigged game limping along. As Steinbeck said, _"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." _It's why the lottery is such big business.


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## rndmchef (Mar 16, 2016)

The difference between the lottery and my previous post... I'm not gonna say anymore.

But , you did get one thing right . Yes, the lottery is a tax on the poor/lower class. I've never once played it or casinos or any such gambling, never will I . 

As I was saying, I find my own ways to make money and don't depend on others to hold my hand to success.


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

I suppose it seems that way to you, but just remember that in order to bake an apple pie from scratch you must first create the Universe.


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

What about those new POS systems at the tables. You place your order on a tablet from your table. No server comes to take your order.

Anyone from the kitchen can deliver your food.

No servers.....so easy even a robot could do it.


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

Chefross said:


> What about those new POS systems at the tables. You place your order on a tablet from your table. No server comes to take your order.
> 
> Anyone from the kitchen can deliver your food.
> 
> No servers.....so easy even a robot could do it.


Does it bring you extra napkins?

Or clean up a spill?

Or keep your coffee cup filled?

Or take your scrambled eggs back and tell the cook you ordered over medium?

Or any one of a number of endless things?

There's no sub for an actual assigned server, and I dont mind tipping, I just dont like it

being expected of me, regardless of the service....or lack thereof.


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

Meezenplaz said:


> Does it bring you extra napkins?
> 
> Or clean up a spill?
> 
> ...


Oh I totally agree with you.

But with this system......Who do I tip again?


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

There is a difference between servers and a well trained waiter or waitress.  The automat was replaced by fast food and vending machines.  It is up to managers and workers to evolve into what is in their future.   Anticipate the needs of your guests and be that future.  Some of us are old enough to be able to sit back and enjoy the show.


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

Meezenplaz said:


> Does it bring you extra napkins?
> 
> Or clean up a spill?
> 
> ...


They are making self driving cars and you think these are obstacles. 


Jimyra said:


> There is a difference between servers and a well trained waiter or waitress. The automat was replaced by fast food and vending machines. It is up to managers and workers to evolve into what is in their future. Anticipate the needs of your guests and be that future. Some of us are old enough to be able to sit back and enjoy the show.


Jimyra, I remember when I was a kid my Mom would tell us about her trip to NYC and eating a sandwich at a automat. Back in the day restaurants from NYC to San Francisco had waitstaff with years of service. I remember talking with many waiters that had 26, 30 or more years working in the same restaurant. These people made the experience even better, I haven't seen this kind of service in a lot of places now a days. The last time I saw it was at Peter Lugers in NYC where the waiters have been there for years. I can't see this kind of service returning, we have a new generation that hasn't seen what real service is about. I think casual dining has led us down this path. All people want to do is eat in todays world. Everything is "I want it now" and I'm not willing to wait. This type of dining becomes the norm and quality service is lost. The days are gone that you will have waitstaff working the floor that really care. This is all about dollar's and cents. A party of four is viewed as 15% of a $100 bill in the eyes of the waitstaff. Our society as moved to people yelling, I want more money for doing less. This wasn't how our nation was built and I can't see us as a people being better off for it in the long run. You can see the writing on the wall in the Presidential primaries. Fee stuff ( Feel the burn) Sick of all the free stuff and want our country back ( Trump on).


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## lagom (Sep 5, 2012)

"They are making self driving cars and you think these are obstacles. "

I live near and work in Göteborg Sweden where Volvo has been testing these cars for years, and I definatly admire all the advances they have made in shelf driving technology and also in the driver assist technology.

I still keep my eyes open for them at all times[emoji]128556[/emoji]


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Meh..... Most customers are too busy staring at their "devices" to acknowledge any decent service.

Then again, if there are no qualifications in N. America for cooks, what qualifications are there for serving staff?i


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## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

What exactly does “free stuff” mean? Should corporate tax loop holes costing billions of dollars, military spending and jingoistic foreign policy, and industries that make money as middlemen, skimming of the hard work of others be included? Factor in foreign aid to countries like Israel and Egypt that total close to $5 Billion dollars? Or subsidies for BigAgriBusiness and other white collar work that requires sitting behind a desk doing nothing all day but shuffling paperwork or emails? Yup, that’s some free shit right there. Why isn’t anybody slamming that gravy train?

And as far as wanting more money for doing less? How about outlawing slave labor? Because that in effect is what the opponents of raising the minimum wage advocate. How about we join the rest of the civilized world and consider human dignity as opposed to social darwinism? Do we really want to defend the right for one human to oppress and step on the back of another like the crab effect? Just pay people more money. Rising tide lifts all boats, right? Make the poverty level $28K, min wage $15 to reflect the cost of living increase, and maybe charge more for a burger. It’s a paradigm shift, but most just prefer to argue over individualism vs community. 

If humanity wants to progress, then it’s gonna have to share. Period. This is how we’ve gotten this far, after all.


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## chef torrie (Mar 1, 2011)

Meezenplaz said:


> Well said, Chef. Especially that last sentence.
> The most effective "buffer" you speak of that I've found is the position of expediter. One who stands at the
> pass receiving plates from the Chef, finishes them and approves them for the server to take to the table.
> They are the go-between, the liaison between the cook and the server. If properly done, the server will rarely
> ...


In many situations the chef, or chef Dr cuisine IS working Expo.


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