# Dough Sheeters



## JohnDB (10 mo ago)

Looking to get a decent reversible dough sheeter...

Any brands I should avoid?


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Brand names keep changing, but the basic Asian ( and lets face it, the majority of sheeters are re-badged Asian jobbies) sheeter suffers from two faults;

The scraper assembly is not removable, or extremely awkward and difficult to remove.

The thickness setting is not lockable, so dough thickness can vary if the machine is “ moody”.

You can only find out these faults by examining the machine personally


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## JohnDB (10 mo ago)

foodpump said:


> Brand names keep changing, but the basic Asian ( and lets face it, the majority of sheeters are re-badged Asian jobbies) sheeter suffers from two faults;
> 
> The scraper assembly is not removable, or extremely awkward and difficult to remove.
> 
> ...


Rondo seems to be the one brand everyone with high volume is using...

I'm guessing that it's because of the issues you have mentioned?

They are about 250% higher in price than the others. And you know the issues surrounding capital expenditures.


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## chefpeon (Jun 14, 2006)

JohnDB said:


> Rondo seems to be the one brand everyone with high volume is using...
> 
> I'm guessing that it's because of the issues you have mentioned?
> 
> They are about 250% higher in price than the others. And you know the issues surrounding capital expenditures.


I hope you're not looking to buy it new. I always buy used equipment, always. I'm not sure what the used market looks like right now, but I've always been able to find what I want at auction or through restaurant appliance dealers.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Yes, Rondo probably the best.
My last workplace had an “Omcan” sheeter, built like a tank, but it suffered from the same two issues I mentioned, I also had warranty issues with it when it vibrated loudly going in one direction. Once that issue was dealt with I found it to be a reliable, well built machine, albeit one with factory-locked scraper assemblies.

That’s not to say there are work-around solutions for these problems. If the scraper assembly is not clean, accumulation of fats will leave black streaks in the dough and dough will tend to wrap around the rollers, bunching up at the scraper, and re You have to clean the upper scrapers with a hot wet rag frequently. A pain in the butt when doing production work, but it is the price to pay. That said, a good machinist could probably modify the scraper assemblies so they are easy to remove once purchased. Why they don’t do this at the factory is beyond comprehension.


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## JohnDB (10 mo ago)

chefpeon said:


> I hope you're not looking to buy it new. I always buy used equipment, always. I'm not sure what the used market looks like right now, but I've always been able to find what I want at auction or through restaurant appliance dealers.


Oh no...of course not. 
I've seen several floor model used Rondo reversible sheeters for around $8,000 but new Techoganda sheeters for $3500.

Obviously there's going to be a difference.

And I've been watching the auctions and used supply houses and Ebay for a decent unit. Hopefully something will turn up this summer.

All of my equipment to date is used or lightly used from places that only made it 6 months before closing. (And they all bought new equipment...Obviously a trend I'm not wanting to follow)

Currently we are battling it out with the architect as to codes, and what will fit where. Our architect got lost when discussing class 1 vs class 2 hoods and the requirements for each or why the difference. So it's been a bit trying on that end. 
Especially when he vastly over estimated the cost for construction. That about shut us down before we got started.

So in the meantime I'm trying to save as much budget as possible for the front of house furnishings and exterior signs and banners. If we can have a good holiday season we can survive until spring...and then ride that through the summer slows to the Fall once again.

But it all requires that the exterior and front of house looks great and has decent service. I can make the products good...been around too long to not make good stuff. And this sheeter is the one piece that is being the most difficult to locate and determine what to buy at what price.

I think I got a line on a piece of ½" A-36 sheet steel for the stove to convert into a griddle. (Just a matter of polishing one side) 
But otherwise we have bought some great equipment for roughly half. (New and used both are running very high currently...and not much in the way of new is available inside of 40+ weeks with no guarantee of arrival)


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Jump on the Rondo, parts and service are easy to get ( note, I didn’t say cheap, just easy to get...) but you have to do your homework on the techogando as to parts and service, or gawd forbid— damage occurred during shipping, also, availability for “ consumables” like belts and scraper assemblies.

Both my older brother and his wife are architects. After meeting many of their architect friends I am comfortable saying that architects don’t know much about restaurants. I can tell you confidently that you don’t need an architect to design a building, but you do need a structural engineer, a mechanical engineer, and may need an electrical engineer to “ sign off” on drawings submitted to city hall. An architect is just a fancy general contractor, albeit one that doesn’t know codes for commercial kitchen ventilation systems.....


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## JohnDB (10 mo ago)

So far we might be getting stopped. 
Build out is going to be @ 350K BUT if we have to upgrade the 208 3phase 400 amps to 600 amps going to add another 60K to construction and that might be the straw that breaks the camel's back. We don't have a huge amount of money to build with....and over capitalizing is a sure fire recipe for failure even if we are a success. 

We aren't doing any short order but with a purposefully designed menu it won't appear that way. 

Dunno how things are going to work out...


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

400 amps is quite a bit. The usual power pigs are hvac, hot water, and ovens. What can you convert to gas?


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## JohnDB (10 mo ago)

There's two rooftop air handlers at a total of 12.5 tons...but there's a 225 and a 65 Amp breaker feeding them. Everything is gas heat. I'm thinking that they are overpowered even though they are 15+ years old. 
Then they overpowered my deck oven at 200 amps...again it only needs half of that. 

And if we can't get it straightened out it's going to be a disaster trying to pay for the change in service and delay Everything out to November/December....much too late to even think about opening. October is a late start as it is. *sigh* 

We need about 2½ miracles.


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## JohnDB (10 mo ago)

Things just aren't adding up correctly whatsoever. 

For those not electrically inclined...

400 x 208 x 1.73 = 144.1 KW
That's amps times volts times the square root of pi because we are dealing with three phase power. 

The usual guesstimate for power for air handlers (ac units) is 3500 watts per ton. 
So 12.5 tons x 3.5 = 44 KW. 

So...we have a 225 Amp breaker and a 65 Amp breaker feeding the two units...a total of 290 amps out of a possible 400 amps. 

3/4 of the power (by the breakers) going to air handlers...
When going by the watts it's less than ⅓ of the power being used by these things. 

And everyone is paying attention to the breakers and not the reality of the situation. 

I'm ready to spit nails like a framing nailer at these bozos.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

What works well for me is to play “ Chef” and tell ‘em you don’t know anything about electricity, but wouldn’t it be practical to do a load calculation, and THEN figure out if there’s enough room for more breakers?

Had to do this when a Hvac installer put in a three ton unit in my kitchen and when it wouldn’t work blamed my refrigeration for “ overloading the system” and walked away. By comparing the serial #’s on the indoor unit and the outdoor unit I realized the ejit had installed two incompatible units. Rather than fight with said eejit, I emailed pictures of the units to his boss. Different guy fixed it next day....


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## JohnDB (10 mo ago)

foodpump said:


> What works well for me is to play " Chef" and tell 'em you don't know anything about electricity, but wouldn't it be practical to do a load calculation, and THEN figure out if there's enough room for more breakers?
> 
> Had to do this when a Hvac installer put in a three ton unit in my kitchen and when it wouldn't work blamed my refrigeration for " overloading the system" and walked away. By comparing the serial #'s on the indoor unit and the outdoor unit I realized the ejit had installed two incompatible units. Rather than fight with said eejit, I emailed pictures of the units to his boss. Different guy fixed it next day....


Unfortunately in this case there is no "boss" to appeal to. All are independent businesses...

And firing the lot of them and starting over is going to put us 2 months behind...and we already are about that far behind now.

I wanted half of August to clean up and get acquainted with the equipment at a sane pace. Then a quiet open in September to get the crew used to everything with a grand opening in October.

Now it's going going to be "spray and pray" with everyone and everything in October if we can open.


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## JohnDB (10 mo ago)

foodpump said:


> What works well for me is to play " Chef" and tell 'em you don't know anything about electricity, but wouldn't it be practical to do a load calculation, and THEN figure out if there's enough room for more breakers?
> 
> Had to do this when a Hvac installer put in a three ton unit in my kitchen and when it wouldn't work blamed my refrigeration for " overloading the system" and walked away. By comparing the serial #'s on the indoor unit and the outdoor unit I realized the ejit had installed two incompatible units. Rather than fight with said eejit, I emailed pictures of the units to his boss. Different guy fixed it next day....


One more question if you are willing. 
I have finally found a sheeter and gotten it delivered. (Rondo free standing appears to be late 80's or early 90's)

The whole machine is grubby...been forever since it was last cleaned. The belts are grubby, have spots that appear to possibly be mildew, and have some frayed locations on them.

How to I clean these things? Pressure washer at a car wash? (My first inclination as to how much old butter and flour is in them)

Can I turn them inside out and use them that way to hide the fraying canvas? These canvas belts seem to have an inner core of vinyl with canvas on the outside of both sides. (I don't want those fraying threads getting in my dough and I'm unsure of exactly what to do without absolutely replacing the things)

It's been 35+ years since I last played with one for a few weeks.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Best thing to do is replace the belts. SHould be able to order new ones, either canvas or nylon from any bakery eqpt. dealer. Canvas ones are machine washable, but if they are mildewed or frayed just replace them. Once the belts are off it’s cleaning time: take a skewer and scrape off the crud lodged in the ribs of the drive rollers, take the scraper assemblies off and replace loose springs or scraper blades. Don’t use any water until You’ve thoroughly removed as much crud as you can with bamboo skewers and a strong vacuum cleaner, only then should you then bust out the hot soapy water and those round brushes you can chuck into a cordless drill. Whomever gets this job will probably put off visiting bakeries for at least two months.......


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Forgot, sorry. If the belts are rubberized canvas, beat them with a stick, ( not kidding here) then use a pressure washer on both sides. Bake them under the sun or in a low oven until you’re sure they are bone dry. If the vinyl/ rubber is cracking or fatiguing, it’s best to replace, same with any cuts or rips. Use a propane torch to burn off any loose threads, if you snip, the threads tend to continue to unravel.

I dunno, belts are “ consumables” kinda like tires. If the last guy was using lots of fats, ( long since rancid and lodged into the canvas weave) or gawd forbid-dribbling eggwash all over them, it’s best to replace them. Back in “my day”, when the dinosaurs ruled, most hotels and bakeries had two sets of canvas belts, and would swap them out every few months for a laundered set

Hope this helps, not kidding about the gross-ness factor, once hot water hits that machine it starts smelling like a crappy bakery that sells crappy product.....


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## JohnDB (10 mo ago)

foodpump said:


> Forgot, sorry. If the belts are rubberized canvas, beat them with a stick, ( not kidding here) then use a pressure washer on both sides. Bake them under the sun or in a low oven until you're sure they are bone dry. If the vinyl/ rubber is cracking or fatiguing, it's best to replace, same with any cuts or rips. Use a propane torch to burn off any loose threads, if you snip, the threads tend to continue to unravel.
> 
> I dunno, belts are " consumables" kinda like tires. If the last guy was using lots of fats, ( long since rancid and lodged into the canvas weave) or gawd forbid-dribbling eggwash all over them, it's best to replace them. Back in "my day", when the dinosaurs ruled, most hotels and bakeries had two sets of canvas belts, and would swap them out every few months for a laundered set
> 
> Hope this helps, not kidding about the gross-ness factor, once hot water hits that machine it starts smelling like a crappy bakery that sells crappy product.....


Thank You! 
I only paid 5 for this one. Others (used and much smaller) were starting at 8 but most were around 15.  New ones start at 22 and go up from there with lead times of 12 -20 weeks. (For a good one)

So it looks like I got a job in front of me. I'll go by the store and grab some bamboo skewers and a wrench and other tools and tear into it next week. This is going to take a few days.


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## JohnDB (10 mo ago)

I've seen white butter
I've seen Yellow butter

Never seen butter with flour turn some awful shades of brown and some that turned so dark green that it was black. 

Been cleaning this sheeter with everything from wire brushes, putty knives, bamboo skewers, and double ought steel wool and some soap and water in places. 

The butter that turns rancid becomes acidic and there's rust in places. (Stainless steel wire brushes fix this) 

One of the belts (for the dough) is canvas covered vinyl and the other is vinyl. Both are different sizes...

Transmission needs its oil changed, the motor's belts need changing too. 

And I'd like a manual for this thing....smk64....but got nothing but goose eggs on the internet. 

Parts manual? 

And exactly what size of belts go on this thing....I measured 24 x 67.5" on one folded flat (the one that needs changing the most.) 

That also has come up with nothing. Seen 25 x 130. 

But progress is being had. We are getting there. Much much cleaner than when I first got it. More to go.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Yeah the grossness factor on shelters is pretty high...

If I’m not mistaken, motorcycle oil is used on that era of sheeters. Most bakery eqpt. dealers will have belts, or contacts to get custom made belts.

You can try contacting Rondo directly, in the canton of Bern, Switzerland, for a PDF of the manual

A lot of places have the belt on the rh side all vinyl, “referred to as a “ cutting belt” as you can cut croissants, etc. directly on the belt.


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