# On Coffee Makers



## gsquared (May 29, 2002)

I have to confess to being an inveterate collector of kitchen gadgets. Cleaning out a musty cupboard yesterday, I came across my collection of coffee making gadgets. Two ibriks, four cafetieres in various states of disrepair, two filter/espresso machines, a percolator, three moka pots with pieces missing.... 

I currently use a filter/espresso machine and am contemplating the purchase of a grind-the-beans automatic espresso machine. Has anyone had any experience with one of these?


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## suzanne (May 26, 2001)

Sorry, I believe in KISS (keep it simple, stupid). The more different things a machine is supposed to do, the more chances there are for something to break and render the whole unusable. I'd put the money the machine costs into buying better coffee beans.

I grind my beans in either a burr-type grinder or a little Braun (the kind that's good for spices, too). Then I either drip in a Melitta, or use a French press. Sometimes a stove-top espresso pot, but that doesn't make real espresso -- can't get enough steam for good crema. The electric espresso machine has long since been packed away, for the same reason.

BTW: What's an ibrik? Please describe.


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## gsquared (May 29, 2002)

An Ibrik is small pot with a long handle that is used to brew Middle Eastern-style Turkish or Greek coffee. You add coffee, cold water and sugare and bring to the boil slowly, remove from the heat, bring to the boil again, allow the grounds to settle and the (carefully) pour.
Kiss is all very well, Suzanne, but I do not know of any method to get a good double espresso without finicking with some machine or the other. That is why the automated thingy sounds attractive - less fussing.


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## suzanne (May 26, 2001)

Ah, so THAT's the name for that pot. Yes, I've got that too, but haven't used it in a while.

You just made me realize how spoiled I am here.  As long as I can control my cravings to daytime only, I can take a short walk and get a great espresso -- and NOT at a Starbuck's, you can be sure! 

But to get back to your original question -- I've heard very good reports about the Francis Francis machines. Are they available there? The main necessity, according to an Italian chef I was asked, is the pressure of the steam. You need a really good head of steam (high psi) to extract the best of the coffee AND make a good crema. I just found a clipping from _Food and Wine_ magazine, September 2001, recommending a couple of machines by Gaggia, including their "Synchrony" that does exactly what you're looking for. Steep price, though -- US$1200! What is that in rands??


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## gsquared (May 29, 2002)

At current Xchange rates around R12000 - pretty steep. I had a demo today on a Saeco machine (around $850) and was hugely impressed - beautiful crema. I live in a small village enclave with a lot of really good cafes within walking distance, so daytime craving is not the problem. I tend to wake up at odd hours - reading at 2am without a really good cuppa just seems to lack something. (With enough caffeine I may even get Faucault's Pendulum finished before I die! 

I think I am going to go for the Saeco. Tomorrow. Tempus fugit! 

Thanks for the input Suzanne, I will let you know once I have the beast up and running.


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## alexia (Mar 3, 2002)

I'm with you, Susanne, except that I like using freshly ground beans in a Chemex (more handsome than Melitta). Personally, I like an occasional espresso - out.

GSquared, how can you poke through FP? It's a marvelous mystery story! Wonderfully intricate. When you do finish it, check out Georges Perec's A Void, another funky mystery story.


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

I get the best crema from an ibrik, better that any espresso I ever drank in Berkeley and North Beach. With an ibrik the trick is NOT TO BOIL THE MIXTURE. Just heat slowly and gently to allow the crusty head to rise; let it fall and reheat gently to rise again. Then serve. An ibrik is the simplest way to go. The best flavor is achieved using Arabian Mocha Sanani from Peets (NOT Starbucks) ground superfinely with your own Turkish coffee grinder, by hand.


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## mudbug (Dec 30, 1999)

GSquared,

Welcome to Cheftalk,

While these do not directly answer your question, you may find my post under the *"Three Star Coffee* thread insightful.

Chef Patrick also has articles on coffee here at ChefTalk.


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## athenaeus (Jul 24, 2001)

So you like turkish coffee kokopuffs 

Sorry cchiu but CAPE CHEF did you know that the deposit of turkish coffee is very good " food" for gardenias and the coffee deposit in general is good for flowers that live in pots?
I always keep mine, even from filter coffees.
My flowers are caffeine addicts 

edited to add.

Have you tasted Lebanese coffee??
It's a kind of turkish coffee with cardamom!! 
It's the best cofee you make it in a ibrik as well.


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Well, A, to be politically correct: It's all middle east style coffee! But I am verrry particular about the beans I buy. They'll make or break the brew.


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

Dear Athenaues,

Thanks for the coffee tip with gardinias, I have had little to no luck with them flowering..I have to believe they are the most tempermental plant I have ever seen..But the aroma is so worth the effort
BTW...my grinds go in my compost,,works like a charm


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## athenaeus (Jul 24, 2001)

Cape Chef gardenias need to grow under the shadow of big trees and they love huge barrels instead of pots.
I have two huge ones and the live hapily in half of a wine barrel each.

As for being moody, I think you are right. I once had the bright idea to change the place of the one of them and place it next to a bigger plant.

I think she thought that I was making a beauty contest or a comparison because the poor thing almost died until I put it back to the previous place...


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

Thank you Athenaues,

I think that I did not put enough hummis in my soil, I have a perfect place to try a couple, in my back I have a nice mostly shade garden which is flanked by a huge rodi and mountian laural. I think they will enjoy that spot


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## jim berman (Oct 28, 1999)

Call me old fashioned, but I prefer coarse ground beans in a French Press. I can really discern the smooth, rounded flavor of coffee steaped in a press. Just my preference.


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## suzanne (May 26, 2001)

You're old fashioned.  

Me, I like all kinds of coffee except BAD.


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## jim berman (Oct 28, 1999)

Suzanne, I knew it would be you!!!!!!!


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## gsquared (May 29, 2002)

I am abashed, Alexia, at battling with FP, but it sits in a blind spot on my literary taste buds....strange, beacuse I loved the Perec.

Cape Chef - one small tot of gin (mixed with water) per week will see your gardenias right.


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## gsquared (May 29, 2002)

Tkx, cchiu, interesting facts.


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## gsquared (May 29, 2002)

Got the Espresso machine this morning.










Happiness is a new gadget......


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

For several years I used a press pot to no avail. My results were very inconsistent and the coffee flavorless. So I went back to both my ibrik as well as my Chemex maker which I really like. So I have a plunger pot if anyone's interested. Just email me personally if interested.


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## zouzouni (May 30, 2002)

HI, everyone. Unfortunately for me, I joined the group at the same time that these other colorful posters did. But that is the first and last reseblance between us. I discovered this wonderful forum through Athenaeus, so now it will be two people from Greece here, although I am not a professional culinary person, just in love with cooking.

I noticed that in the description of how to make the so-called greek or turkish coffee (name varies depending on whom you are talking with) it was said that the coffee biols twice. Actually, that is not correct. The coffee must come to a slow boil and as it does that you see the top layer slowly "inflating" and at the moment this layer breaks into bubbles it must be removed from the fire and poured carefully into the cups. The secret lies both in the timing of removing it from the fire as well as in the slow pouring into the cup so that the top layer will retain its heavy consistency.


A little note for gardenias: they like iron, so add a long nail into the pot or barrel. 
Another little note on coffee grounds: 2 weeks ago I saw that starbucks here in Houston started selling their used coffee grounds to garden buffs. Of course the grounds don't come in a packet with instructions as to how to use them, the fact that they acidify the soil, the fact that they are not good for all plants, how often should one administer them etc...


Now I go back to my quiet corner.


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

Nice to have you with us...and thanks for the tip on gardenias 

Any friend of Athenaues is a friend of our's

Tell us alittle about yourself in the welcome forum. I see you are a graduate student


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## suzanne (May 26, 2001)

It looks like it's Internet-ready  Have you used it yet? Is it all you dreamed it would be (I hope so!). More to the point: how's the coffee you made with it???????

*Jim*: is that good or bad


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Zouzouni:

My technique resembles your instructions. Search the forum and I think that you'll see that I posted very similar instructions. I'm self taught in making M.E. coffee and pride myself on that fact. Not bad for an American especially of Polish descent.

My preference is not to allow bubbles to break the surface - a gentler brewing method methinks is better. I prefer the Mt. Saint Helens effect: allow the crust to bulge and receed twice before serving.

...now if I could just learn to make dolmas, I'd be in heaven, or at least atop Mt. Olympus. Next stop, Mt. Atlas! All aboard.


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## mudbug (Dec 30, 1999)

*GSquared* ,
You're welcome. 

*zouzouni* ,
Welcome to the ChefTalk Cafe! You can view kokopuff's method for brewing *Middle East Style Coffee* here.


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## gsquared (May 29, 2002)

Suzanne, the machine is great!:lips: 
It produces a beautiful crema, the dosage is adjustable as is the fineness of the grind. The size of the cup is also programmable - normal sized coffee cup brew of espresso is just right to my taste. Trick is, I think, the only fill the bean reservoir with as much as is needed for a brew lest the beans lose flavour. All in all a good buy (so far in any event), not the least because of the consummate ease of producing a great brew. I do not have specs on the PSI of steam pressure, but from the compactness of the cake of grind ejected, it seems to be good.
Internet ready? Nope and I hope never. I cannot understand why anybody would ever want to have an appliance talk to the internet.


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## jill reichow (Mar 12, 2001)

Gardenias are also warm weather plants. They flourished in our yard in Fl. We had both the big bushes with the flourist size blooms and the smaller creeping ones with the little blooms. My mistake was in trying to grow them in a cool climate.....


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)




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## suzanne (May 26, 2001)

Kimmie, love, back up and read the digressionary (?) bits about coffee grounds and gardens. Then it makes perfect sense.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Gotcha, Suzanne dearest


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## suzanne (May 26, 2001)

I know I said I'd never buy a machine that grinds and brews and does all that other stuff, BUT ...

I saw a Krups today in my favorite housewares store, and I must get it!!!!!! It made a perfect stretto, with beautiful crema. And it's got a spigot to steam milk, which I'm sure it will do very well, too (if it has enough pressure for the crema, why not). Now I just have to save my pennies until next month, when the salesman said there would be another few "tax-free" days. (Not that I object to paying tax, but it's a hefty chunk of change on something this pricy.)

Before I get too carried away, does anyone have any experience with it? It's the Krups Palatino, that grinds the beans, brews the coffee, ejects the spent grounds, and can steam the milk. Or if not this baby, how about ANY relatively complicated Krups machine? I figure folks here will give me the honest pro-and-con from their experience with Krups. Thanks in advance.


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## gsquared (May 29, 2002)

This is one temptation you are not going to be able to resist! I do not know the Krups, but I do know that there is nothing to beat the sheer luxury of being able to press a button and, 30 seconds later, have a perfectly made spresso. You know as well as all of us probably do, that that machine has your name on it.......


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## Guest (May 14, 2010)

I use a french press to make my coffee. Tastes better than any other way I have made coffee.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Hi, Alejandra. Welcome to Cheftalk.

Don't know if you noticed, but this thread is eight years old. Half the folks who posted on it are no longer regulars, in fact.

You might want to go to the Welcome forum and tell us a little about yourself.

I recently broke down and bought a French press, after spending the past ten years just making boiled coffee. I had to laugh, as the instructions said to use "hot, but not boiling" water. Say huh? And then what; enjoy a cold cup of coffee by the time it brews?

I would say this, though. I've made, or had served to me, coffee made by every imaginable method. And what it boils down to (sorry about that) is the kind of beans you start with. As with anything else, GIGO's law applies. If you start with good beans the brewing method is almost irrelevent.


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