# How to make stock.



## novice_01 (May 6, 2008)

I'm trying to make soup stock - for the first time - and am looking to see if I'm on the right track. I'm using a 12 quart stainless steel pot with a lid.

I put one cut up chicken in it, along with three carrots (sliced), three celery stalks (sliced) and one large onion (quartered). I add one bay leaf leave (is that enough?), a lemon (quartered), and one clove of garlic (sort of chopped up). Then some salt and pepper.

I then added cold water to about a couple of inches from the top of the pot, then put the lid on and turned the gas stove top burner on high until it boiled.

Now I have the lid off and have it on simmer (I forget teh exact definition of simmer).

Question is - how long should I let it simmer?

Also, if I'm making stock, I thought that the nutritional value of chicken and vegetable is diminished and may not be worth eating, though someone else told me I could actually eat the chicken and veggies for dinner.


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## dillbert (Jul 2, 2008)

oh dear.....

use a chicken carcass - not all the meat.

(12 quart)
double the carrots & celery
triple the onion, bay and garlic

low, just a bubblin' simmer for 3-4 hrs
strain, defat, store.

I never salt my stock - I wait to see how it turns / turned out and how I'm using it. I go heavy on the fresh ground pepper, but then again, I like black pepper . . .


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## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

Boy, that was quite a thunderstorm that just clattered over the house. Glad I wasn't planning on yard work today.

RPM just recently posted a sequence of pictures regarding making stock, did you check those out?

You're basically on the right track, just a couple comments. When making stock, the veggies don't really need to be cut up too much, as long as they fit in the pot. As long as the carrots are washed, no need to peel. Same goes for the onion, I just cut the roots and top of then quarter.

After the stock is done, maybe a couple of hours for chicken, the veggies are going to be pretty much drained of flavor and be well overcooked. Some folks like to eat them that way, I don't. I do usually save any chicken meat chunks for later use.

And speaking of later use, in general I don't salt or pepper my stocks. Depending on what you end up doing with it, stock that is salted to begin with and then heavily reduced is going to concentrate the salt, and it could mess up the seasonings of the final product. If you are going to be using the stock as is for soup then no big deal.

Hope it turns out well for you. This cool, rainy weather has me thinking of soups and stews and such myself. Maybe some braised shortribs for tomorrow's dinner.

mjb.


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## chefboyofdees (Nov 11, 2007)

I put one cut up chicken in it, along with three carrots (sliced), three celery stalks (sliced) and one large onion (quartered). I add one bay leaf leave (is that enough?), a lemon (quartered), and one clove of garlic (sort of chopped up). Then some salt and pepper. I then added cold water to about a couple of inches from the top of the pot, then put the lid on and turned the gas stove top burner on high until it boiled. Now I have the lid off and have it on simmer (I forget the exact definition of simmer). Question is - how long should I let it simmer? Also, if I'm making stock, I thought that the nutritional value of chicken and vegetable is diminished and may not be worth eating, though someone else told me I could actually eat the chicken and veggies for dinner.

When I make a stock, I don't cut up the chicken...I just toss the entire chicken in whole and then at the end of the process, take off the meat for usage later. You are adding your mirepoix* ok*, (again I'm not the expert), when I do it, I just chunk up the carrots, celery, onions etc roughly because I'm going to toss it away*anyhoo*, so I don't care if it's not "pretty." regarding your salt and pepper usage, you can get 4 different opinions from 3*different* chef, if you catch my drift. If you are making a stock which will be used for something else later, then you may NOT want to salt and pepper it because that may affect what you are adding the stock to, i.e. risotto rice, chicken soup, etc. (again my opinion). I've never added a lemon wedge to my stock...I don't see what flavour you are trying to achieve with that but again it's YOUR stock. (Some people put in parsnips etc...go fig) I then turn the water to a gentle simmer (water will NOT be actively boiling, but the*occassional bubble* will surface). You will be able to tell...if it is steaming but you see NO bubbles, then you need to turn it up a wee bit. If you see many bubbles you need to turn it DOWN a wee bit...just the*occasionally* bubble but NOT a rolling boil. The length of time will depend again on your final output. I feel a minimum of 3 hours is sufficient...however if you want it to be MORE concentrated, then longer is certainly good (maybe about 5 or so...depends on your time limits and patience.) At this point you can do several things. When I do this, I'm making the soup for use later and therefore, I will remove the 
*chicken*(bones and all...the meat will probably be falling off the bone by now)...place it separately...strain the broth through a colander to remove the mirepoix and any stray "junk"...cool the broth down in a water bath and then refrigerate overnight. The next day, I will skim off the 
*schmaltz*(chicken fat) and save it for making Matzo Balls or save it for another usage (I don't do pork but*schmaltz*makes a KILLER fat substitute).

You can use the chicken and veggies for dinner if you want. The veggies will be VERY limp and IMHO useless, but the chicken pieces will be great for using on a salad, mixed into a chicken salad (type) sandwich 
*fixin*', chopped up for*quesadillas* or chicken *omelets*(or whatever your little heart desires:lol

Hope this answers some of your questions. I'm sure you will get other great suggestions from the "gang" here. Enjoy.


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

Too much water  Kind of what Dillbert was getting at. Did you use the celery leaves? I love those.

What nutrition comes out of the chicken will basically go into the stock, but the meat will have little texture to it if you cook it past the "done" point. I like using more bay leaves, but there's a lot of personal preference and it depends how you are going to use it. The best way is to experiment and see what you like for what.

Simmering is where it's just barely boiling. Letting the batch sit in the fridge overnight also makes a little more of the flavor go into the liquid.


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## novice_01 (May 6, 2008)

So, if on this attempt, I give up on the stock aspect of it, and just try to make the chicken and veggies something we'll eat for dinner, then I should let it simmer for too long (so that the veggies won't be devoid of flavor)?


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

Yeah if it's not overcooked. It sounds like you're thinking of a stew.


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## novice_01 (May 6, 2008)

Yeah, you know...now I can't figure out if I'm making stock or stew.

I guess if I let it simmer for four hours then it's stock?

But if I let it simmer for one hour then it's a stew?


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

I am not getting into this. Not getting into this. Not getting. 

Not,
BDL


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

:lol: go for it BDL


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

Maybe order a pizza for tonight.


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

I have 20 pounds of sirloin tip roast in the big BBQ pit. It is at 120 right now so it should be done in an hour or so. Let it rest for an hour then thin slice and into vacuum bags and freeze for this winter. I plan on a sandwich from it when it decides it is done :lol:


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## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

Speaking of stock, or would that be a broth :talk:, did you ever come up with a decent au jus recipe for your french dips?

mjb.


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

Not yet, for tonight I am going with the old quickie better than bullion. Still to warm here for making stock, it was 85 earlier and still 80 now.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

My own personal definition of stock is it's made with bones, and broth is made with the meat as well. Don't argue with me, it's my own way of thinking about it. Check out the recent thread that everyone is talking about too.

If I am making broth as you are, I like to put the whole chicken in, not cut up. Use a good organic chicken!! The difference in taste is immeasurable. I like to put in twice as much onion as celery, and even less carrots because I think they give off way too much sweetness. If you can get leeks go for it. Parsnips? Why not, experiment. But lemon is quite unusual for broth. I put lots of peppercorns in it and I salt it slightly, just to bring out the flavor of the ingredients but not enough to influence futher use.

You should only put in enough water to cover your ingredients, maybe an inch more but no more than that. BDL should get involved and he'll tell you - don't bring it to a boil. Even a light simmer is too much agitation for a soup. BDL said it best when he said "a broth is brewed, not boiled" or something like that (right?). Anyway I bring it up to before it comes to a boil and then I skim the froth (yuck) and then I put the lid on and place it on the lowest heat possible and leave it there for an hour and a half.

The chicken - best chicken meat you'll have, must be eaten hot and skin off. It's creamy delicious. The rest you can cut it up into a salad or whatever you like. Good luck!


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## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

Well, I had thought of several bad puns to post, but I'll behave myself.

Actually this discussion is somewhat related to Shel's query regarding poule au pot, a dish where one poaches a whole chicken for some number of hours with some seasonings and veggies.

Personally, I just hope that Novice doesn't starve to death tonight!

And in my opinion, regardless of whatever the stock/soup/broth/poach turns out to be in the end, I'd bet dollars to donuts it will be way better than store bought.

mjb.


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

None of the jokes have been very punny


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## chefboyofdees (Nov 11, 2007)

Punny...thank you for your attempt at levity

You came and you tried...for hours and hours

the jokes fell flat

like that cake of ours

Punny...it's so true

I luv ewe! (no not you...my ewe Edna)

:beer:


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## novice_01 (May 6, 2008)

The chicken was excellent - it was falling off the bone and extremely tender. (I stopped the whole process after about 90 minutes of simmering.)

The carrots didn't have a whole lot of flavor, except for some of the bigger chunks.

A couple more questions: one, when you say put twice as much onion as celery, is that amount based on their respective weights?

Also, am I supposed to give things a stir inside the stock pot once in a while? And, if I start out with water just covering everything, as the liquid reduces then the chicken and veggies will end up sticking out of the liquid?


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## chefboyofdees (Nov 11, 2007)

on how much water evaporates. As long as you keep the ingredients covered, you are ok. Just be aware that if you use water from the tap or refrig, it will lower the temp of everything in the pot, therefore if you think that you will be needing to add water (and you will), you may want a bottle of room temperature water ready, or just put on a lg saucepan, bring it to warm, and turn off. This way, it will not greatly affect your efforts.


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## rpmcmurphy (Jan 8, 2008)

http://www.cheftalk.com/forums/recip...ken-stock.html

make me feel like I contribute back to this site...just a LITTLE bit.


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## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

Glad to hear it turned out well.

No. You want the whole shebang to be as still as possible. Having stuff get toussled about by vigorous boiling or stirring is going to break down proteins and such so that you get excessive scum and a cloudy liquid. Leave it alone, except for gently adding preheated water so the contents stay covered.

mjb.


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## novice_01 (May 6, 2008)

The chicken was excellent - it was tender and falling off the bones. The carrots didn't have too much flavor - not sure why.

And the whole thing could have use more flavor, but it was still excellent.


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## novice_01 (May 6, 2008)

Oh, do I start out just covering the ingrediants with water, but I add more water along the way as some evaporates?


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

If you are simmering covered you won't lose much liquid in 90 minutes. If anything becomes exposed a bit it will still steam and cook. 90 minutes for carrots put all the flavor in the liquid, that's why they were tasteless.


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## rpmcmurphy (Jan 8, 2008)

Bueller......



....Bueller....


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

This was all a test that Nicko brought before us.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Meat adds lots of flavor. You can cut the breast meat off and not lose to much. It works out nice to add it back into the finished soup.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Adding more water dilutes the liquid and dilutes the flavor.

I may have posted this link in response to one of your queries, but just to be sure, here it is: STOCK TIPS / Chefs offer their do's and don'ts for making this essential base


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

If I were making it, I'd have some noodles with it, too. Glad it came out nicely!


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## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

Did you get around to making the demi-glace yet?

mjb.


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## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

The point of the long, slow simmer is to move as much flavor as possible from the solids to the liquid. The veggies and the meat basically get boiled to death, as you noted with the limp and lifeless carrots.

Remember this the next time someone tells you the best way to cook ribs is to boil them first until they are tender. Just smile and nod.

On the other hand, there is a difference if the liquid used is already loaded with flavor. Like the poule au pot I mentioned earlier, the recipe calls for poaching in broth, not plain water. And a lot of traditional French style poaching recipes call for using court boullion, which in some cases is kind of like, say, mirepoix stock with lemon juice or vinegar added for a bit of acidity, especially when poaching fish.

mjb.


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## novice_01 (May 6, 2008)

Wow, great article, and very interesting! Thanks!


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Using BtB, eh? For each cup of "au jus," mix 1 cup of water with 1/3 cup red wine and 1/2 tbs of BtB. You may add thinly sliced onions or shallot if you like, some loose parsley, and/or a tsp of Worcestershire. Simmer, reduce to 1 cup, and strain if necessary. 

BDL


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

Pretty close to what I did tonight, no wine though. BTB isn't to bad but still a bit on the salty side. 16 pounds of thin sliced beef in the freezer for this winter when it is to cold to cook outside comfortably.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Apart from the _poule au pot_, sometimes I'll use a broth as a base for making broth or stock. There are some Chinese techniques in which you essentially poach meat in water, and keep resusing the poaching liquid. Also, my poultry people give away breast bones - people want the breast meat deboned and there's a lot of meat left on the bones - a lot. I'll get five or more pounds and just gently simmer them until they give up their flavor, and use the liquid as a base instead of water when I make broth or stock. It also makes a nice, light soup base.

I pull all the meat off the bones and my cat and I sit down and enjoy a little snack. I'll sometimes season the meat I eat, sometimes use it for chicken salad or in sandwiches, but mostly Buddy and I just enjoy a nice lunch together, picking the bones clean.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Since the chefs quoted in the article are all local, I've eaten at their restaurants and tasted their stocks and broths. They are all very well-regarded chefs, and the stocks they make reflect their training and personalities.

Over the years my stock-making has become very refined, in that I no longer throw a bunch of vegetables and leftover chicken parts into the pot. When it's time to make stock/broth, I shop for the freshest vegetables and the best birds, I use spring water (I don't like the taste of the water at my house), and I'll often (not always because I'm sometimes lazy) blanch the birds before actually settling in to the main steps of the process. A Japanese chef suggested the blanching - he said it makes for a "cleaner" stock.

All the vegetables are from the farmers' market or as fresh as possible from one of two produce stores I frequent. I _never _use supermarket chicken, only birds from certain producers that have been freshly killed (within 24-hours), and that are larger and older than the typical fryer. They have more flavor.

After the birds are blanched, they are rinsed, and then put into the stock pot. The heat is never turned up to high to accelerate the process - it's always on a low simmer. The scum builds up very slowly, and once it starts building up I never leave the pot, and skim frequently, not letting the foam build up. I try to avoid skimming the fat with the foam as much as possible. Once the last of the foam is removed, it's time for a break. I leave the pot alone for an hour or so, depending on how big the bird is and how much water I've used. When I return, I taste, and then decide when to add the vegetables and aromatics. Always onions (sometimes with leeks), celery (no leaves), and carrots in as close to the classic mirepoix ratio as possible - 2:1:1 - I'm a traditionalist, and then perhaps some other herbs. I like to add some thyme and a Turkish bay leaf, as fresh as possible. Whole black peppercorns go in at the end of the process, when there's about 30-minutes left. Somtimes I'll throw in a hot chile pepper or two if I want a stock with a little kick, but usually I reserve that little fillip for vegetable stock.

When the stock is done, I let the pot sit for a while on the assumption that some impurities will sink to the bottom. The stock is then _ladled_ into the recipient vessel through several layers of cheese cloth. The vessel is always glass or a clean stainless steel pot, never plastic of any sort. I am obsessive about not using plastic containers of any sort.

I hope this gives you some ideas ... making stock is very satisfying, it fills the house with wonderful aromas. As you can tell by reading the _San Francisco Chronicle _article, and reading all the methods and techniques used for making stock, both here and elsewhere, it's a process that lets your personality shine through. In time you'll develop your own technique ...


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## dillbert (Jul 2, 2008)

novice -

sounds like you did stewed chicken <g> - which is a good dish! I like it!

my secret to good stewed chicken: 
...typically on a 2 hr very gentle simmer - about 45 minutes from the end, fish out all the veggies and replace them with fresh of same. as discovered, the "old" stuff gave it's all for flavoring and there's not much taste left in them - the "new stuff" provides a good taste/texture. I hold off on potatoes to that point as well - or earlier if doing uncut potato....


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## rpmcmurphy (Jan 8, 2008)

not yet. 


....yet. :chef:


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

Hey, that's a great idea


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## irish foodie (Sep 16, 2008)

i agree 100% with shel about skimming. when you do that you have the most crystal clear stock.

i just want to add a couple of things. i don't peel the onions or carrots - the onion peel gives a browner colour.

after i make the stock and it's sieved and then again through muslin to make it perfect, i line up bowls which i have lined with cling film. then i pour the cooled stock into the bowls and pop into the freezer. when it's solid i simply wrap in more cling film and store in the freezer and then i can just pull one out to make soup or whatever. i know we are advised to freeze the stock into ice cube trays but i like freezing it in larger blocks for using in soup.

oh, and btw, i use a full chicken not bones or bits. better flavour, more jelly fat to set and also we feed our dog chicken every day so i can strip it and use it for the dog. 

edit to add: i don't keep the chicken to use to eat coz i really, really do not like eating chicken. except my mum's roast chicken. other than that i never eat chicken.


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

Then the "tastes like chicken" thing, which is usually pretty neutral, is probably a negative thing to you.


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## novice_01 (May 6, 2008)

Right - I set out to make stock but, unknowingly, ended up making stew. Thanks for the tip on the veggies so that they won't be bland.


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