# Do you use a butcher?



## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

I got to wondering how many people still use a real butcher when purchasing their meat. It seems that most people are buying pre-cut, packaged meats through various supermarkets and big box stores, like Costco. So, if you use a butcher, raise your hand, and maybe tell us why you prefer buying your meat in that way.

scb


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## bluedogz (Oct 11, 2006)

Because the nice man does what I say, and gives me soup bones, Korean short ribs, and properly identified and wrapped other stuff. As opposed to the meatball at the supermarket that cuts it all out of the freezer, at best.


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

If I had one nearby, I'd certainly use it. As it is, I buy meat often from an upscale store (Sendik's in Brookfield, for you locals). There are always five or six people behind the counter cutting down primals. When I ask questions, they know the answer. They can usually get me whatever I want, even if it has to be ordered. 

Luckily, the big-box grocery closest to my home (a Pick 'N Save) has three butchers who know their stuff: one of them grew up in the apartment above a butcher shop, learned the trade there, and has been at it ever since. I trust him, and the two other guys, too. 

But what I wouldn't give for a top-notch butcher shop like the one my mom used to shop in!


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## izbnso (May 12, 2007)

A friend of mine owned half of a butcher shop until very recently. I would place large orders for the freezer because her shop was over an hours drive from my house. I liked everything about it. From the white paper packages she would bring to the house grease pencil marked indicating their contents (she would deliver large orders close by, but as she is my youngest son's god mother my orders were a good reason to drive an hour to visit.)to the flavor and general higher quality of meat. It cost more than mega-mart meat, but not prohibitively so.

I remember an enormous box of filets that I ordered for a gig, when I lifted the lid it smelled like butter. After taste testing the product it was really hard to serve it to any one else but me.:lips:

She got tired up being up to her elbows in meat and the way she smelled after work. Since a large portion of her business was deer processing, she hopes to never see another piece of deer sausage in her life.:lol:

Knowing what I do from her about the inside skinny of what goes on in local (meaning not corporate owned) small butcher shops, all I can say is make sure you trust your butcher. She had helpers come in who had worked at other older and more established meat markets that would try to do some crazy gross stuff. She wouldn't put out anything she wouldn't eat herself, lets just say that not all butchers do that.

I haven't yet found somebody in my area that I trust to be my butcher, but I'm looking. So currently I am trusting mega-mart to be willing to absorb losses by tossing bad meat instead of trying to sell it to me.


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

I buy 1/4 grass fed organic beef from a local farm, it gets processed at a local butcher. Whe I asked if he would eat the hamburger rare he took a hunk and ate it raw. So yes I trust my butcher. :roll:


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

I have bought from my local butcher for over 20 years. He makes his own pies, haggis and sausages. Most of the meat he sells is sourced from his families' (3, I believe) farms just outside of the city. All the meat is organic. I also buy shredded suet from him, rather than the packet stuff.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

At Costco the meat is fresh cut. The meat is sourced from the same place your butcher gets it. Believe me, your butcher isn't breaking down carcasses either.

The people at Costco and SAMS work hard just like anyone else.


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## dillbert (Jul 2, 2008)

I frequent our local butcher - I don't buy exclusively from him but when I'm passing by or when I need a special cut or want to be sure of excellent quality I go. the beef is always superb, the pork is good but can't say it's "more better" than the megamart.

he has a wonderful assortment of local fresh sausages not available elsewhere - they make their own so if their seasoning blend suites you, you're really in luck.

I can get things cut & trimmed as I want them, I can get three thick cut chops (vs. 2 pkgs of 2, for example)

they dry age all their beef - I can get "special services" like having him cut then dry age my holiday prime rib (in his locker) to my specs (cut & days) - etc.

the meat locker has a couple glass front small windows for storing small cuts - when he goes in to fetch something you can see entire sides of beef hanging and I have not seen a single Cryovac in his shop. I suppose it could be plastic beef hanging to impress people, but I don't think so . . .


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## jbd (Mar 17, 2008)

This is where most of the meat the butcher gets comes from regardless of it being a small one man shop or several people working in a mega-mart operation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_farming
The percentage of meat that is procurred from small organic producers is very small. Even those of us who raised grass fed animals sold them through local stockyards where they were purchased by these large CAFO's and fed commercially produced feeds.

A small niche butcher may well have the clientle that will support him buying prime graded meat. Larger supermarkets will have a larger clientle that is looking to save some money and viewing food in a much more utilitarian way. Prime graded meat is a really small percentage of the meat produced annually and is usually bought up by places like Delmonico's (I think thats the upscale steakhouse in New York)

The majority of us get choice and good graded meat to choose from.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

That's just not true. Costco does not buy from the small, local ranches that my butchers get their meat from. Some of the local butchers do break down their own carcasses. 

Costco buys from large producers and feedlots all over the country. The local butchers that I use here get their meat from local ranches, many use organic meats, or meat from grass fed steers. When I buy from the local butcher I know exactly which ranch the meat comes from, where and how it was processed, and can make intelligent, informed decisions about which meat I want to buy that day. And my butchers will cut primals to my specifications, and the meat is not pre-packaged.

No one said anything about how hard Costco and Sams butchers work. That's irrelevent in any case.

Frankly, I wouldn't touch a Costco or Sam's Club piece of meat, nor do I shop in those stores, although the reasons for this are not based only on how their meat is sourced or processed.

shel


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## oldschool1982 (Jun 27, 2006)

That's not entirely true either. Although I did see you edited you comments and took out the statement about the organic thing. For what it’s worth……Costco is fine source for meats (pork, beef and poultry). And they don’t prepackage things, it’s all cut right out in the open. It's minimally processed and they have good sanitation standards. They are also forthcoming with information and when asked, can and will provide the origin of the meat. This is a result of the company working with the Japanese in restablishing our industries standard for providing quality meats. Their meats are not injected, pork is pork not "always tender" and although they come from larger faciltiies from all over the country just exactly what do you think Neiman Ranch or Coleman are? Sams however is a whole different situation but they are working towards changing that at least in some markets.

The food in general at Costco is a step up. Just read some of the lables or see the diversity in products they have. Yes they sell Chef boy ardee by the case but they also sell some nice alternatives if you just look for them. 

The more folks demand their foods (or more specifically meats in this case) to be from Free range, pasture grazed, etc, etc, etc options......... the larger the producer is going to have to be to supply it in a cost effective manner. Costco as well as the other two above mentioned producers have found a way to provide the meats that people are asking for. Case in point we went to our local farmers market in Petersburg Va last saturday. They had one "free range" local butcher on site. Whoooopdy dooooooo. 12.00lb ground beef, pre packaged steaks at 17.00lb all out of a cooler. Sorry but we made a bee line to costco and bought a whole piece of sirloin for me to turn into steaks. It's been a while but at 3.99lb it sure beats the 17.00lb racket. 

So, what does it matter is the ranch has a herd of 200 or 200,000. It all has to be processed and packaged to be shipped. 

Yes I can see the plant that handles 200 be able to provide hanging sides for processing but that's just not the case anylonger. The people that are trained or have the desire to break down a full side on location are few and far between. I have first hand knowledge of this because I worked for a year as a butcher for Publix back in the late '90's. I was hired to provide more Restaurant style cuts vs the home style that was primarily available. But that's what most people demand theses days. Restaurant style cuts. How can the smaller plant stay profitable and still provide meat at a cost effective price? It can't. That's why you see meats at the prices I mentioned above.

If you have a butcher that works for you that's great. Our butcher just happens to work for Costco.


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

There are many small local growers who sell direct to the public. The one I buy from offers a service by taking the animal to my butcher of choice who is also local. The meat is way better than any grocery store and considerably cheaper even after the butcher/cutting/wrapping charges. Last year I think it came to $3 a pound for grass fed organic beef. If you are in SW MN this is who I buy from moonstone :: home


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## muskyhopeful (Jun 16, 2006)

Like Mezz, I buy most of my meat from the local Sendik's. I think she only shops there during the day while I'm working, because I'm keeping an eye out for her, and I never see her. I'm wondering if she really exists. 

I, too, think Costco is pretty darn good. As good as Sendik's in most things, cheaper too, but alas, much farther away. I swear to God the boneless beef short ribs are the best I've ever had. They are marbled like prime strip steaks.

Locally, we have an upscale grocer, Grasch's, that sells only prime meat. This is by far the best in the Milwaukee area, however, $30.00+ per pound for NY strip is a little out of my league. They have about eight butchers working at all times. The meat is in a display case and most buy that way, but they will cut anything you want, all you have to do is ask. Being in a real estate related profession, I'm not buying many $30.00 NY Strips these days. They also have the absolute best seafood section I've ever seen in the Midwest. That's pricey, too, but that's where I buy my seafood.

We're going to a cookout at a friend's tonight. They are serving a variety of sausages from Bunzel's in Wauwatosa, WI, which is a small butcher shop that I've never been in, (I don't know why since I drive by it about twice a week) and I'm looking forward to it.

Kuan, you know what looks great at Costco, but I've yet to try (the Costco in SE WI just opened seven or eight months ago and is 45 minutes from my house), are the racks of lamb. Reasonablly priced, too. Are any of those awesome rack of lamb pictures you post of racks from Costco?

Kevin

I'm with guy that thinks we have a fire distinguisher in the hallway.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Here is a picture of my son at his uncle's farm. (incidently, conservation farmer of the year) Roughly 250 head. Some of it is sourced by local butchers, some of it straight to the processor who sends it out to IBP and other folks who once again send it off to Costco and Ralphs.


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

Plastic beef sides . . . I wanna buy a few, where do I get them?:lol: They'd be great living room decor.


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## lollarossa (Feb 22, 2006)

I wish they had real butchers in this neck of the woods. All I have in the way of getting meat is Food Lion, Lowes Foods, Harris Teeter, Fresh Market and Wal-Mart.


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

Golf capital of the world . . . you mean you're in central Oregon too?


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## lollarossa (Feb 22, 2006)

Pinehurst, NC.

US Teens Champ going on now, Kids Worlds going on next week, Amateur Champ. going on at the end of Aug., US Open, 1999, 2005, 2014.


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

We have some good supermarkets this side of the pond, particularly 
Waitrose...

But, we also STILL have lots of local butchers... I know which I prefer!


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

I buy most fish from one source -- Vien Dong Superfood Warehouse.

I buy most poultry from two sources -- local "live" processors

I buy red meat from a variety of sources including ethnic meat markets, meat counters in ethnic and American stores, butcher shops located in supers (such as How's), supermarkets and Costco. 

When possible I buy large "packer cuts," and do my own portioning, breaking, steaking, trimming, etc., on things like briskets, top-block sirloin, pork loins, pork shoulders, etc. That way we get the right sizes, everything is cut square and smooth, the fat trim is right, and if there's a problem I know where to point the finger. We own a freezer and use it.

I frequently (as in nearly always) buy "on sale." Costco ins't usually the best for quality/price, but sometimes it is -- and it's convenient. It's roughly on a par with Stater Brothers (which has better service), and Pavilions (a super market chain owned by Kroeger which has lousy service and on-site butchers but good butchers). I've never found any single place that can take care of all my needs at the highly competitive prices I'm willing to pay. I buy according to price and quality, and take pride and pleasure in finding top quality meat at the best local prices. 

BDL


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

It depends on what I'm looking for. 

There's an Asian grocer, South East Asian Market, with a small fresh meat counter specializing in really odd things, even blood occasionally.

There's a Mexican grocer, Tenochtitlan Market, with a large meat counter with some specialty products and some decent seafood including whole fish you don't see other places. The neighboring Asian market is worth visiting while you're there and there's an Indian spice market too. Pretty cool little strip mall actually.

Siegfrieds has a excellent case of processed german suasages, spreads and such.

Colosimo's is a local sausage maker with some really good sauage.

And there's Snider's, a quality butcher where I get duck, sausage casing and other hard to find goodies.

But Costco gets the bulk of my meat purchases.


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## gummy-bear (Oct 27, 2007)

I try not to golf after I fractured my collar bone while playing putt-putt. I'm a little on the clumsy side. 

Anyways, I'm a Costco type of gal, especially for fruit, but meats as well. The meats are good, and priced decently. Why spend extra money when you don't have to?


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## ninja_59 (May 2, 2004)

I have been using a butcher for the past two years, excellent meat & poultry, hes only 300 ft ( 100 m ) from my door


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## rpmcmurphy (Jan 8, 2008)

I wish, closest real butcher thats worth it, is 30 minutes away. I go when I'm having guests or if I'm in the area.


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## bluedogz (Oct 11, 2006)

Are you SURE working with knives is a good idea?


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## bughut (Aug 18, 2007)

We dont use much meat for the business. For sandwiches we buy from the supermarket (Ham,turkey etc.) 
I'm not proud of the fact that I buy my chicken breasts from a wholesaler. I'm trying to cut chicken from the menu as I detest battery farming but my customers wont pay the extra for free range.
We only use free range eggs at work, organic at home.

We use the oldest butchers in Dundee for the family. Theyre not certified organic. but are locally sourced from small farms. All the meat is traceable and I have to brag that their Angus Rib-eye steaks are truly the best I've ever tasted.

Small, community butchers, in my opinion, give such great service. Theyre willing to help with preparing joints too, give great advice, and I think we should support them more, or they will disappear.

So what if they're a bit more expensive than the supermarkets. We pay the premium for quality, but eat meat less often. Win-win


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## gummy-bear (Oct 27, 2007)

Thankfully, the only place I'm fairly graceful is in the kitchen. 

I went putt-putting with a friend and everything was great. I was winning and getting cocky so I decided to try to hit the ball as one would do while playing pool with the other end of the putter. Well, the bulb on the other side came back the wrong way and hit my collar bone pretty hard, doctors laughed at my story for some unknown reason. 

But yes, I am one of the clumsiest people you will ever meet, outside of the kitchen.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

I spoke with a local Costco exec some months back. He said that Costco did not purchase from small, local ranchers, and that they dealt with several large operations.

Two things: what is true here may not be true elsewhere, so it's possible that the fellow I spoke with may have only been describing the operation here in Northern California. I say that in light of your comment.

Also, you said that your uncle sells to processors who sell to IBP and then off to Costco. So, even if the meat may have come from a small, local herd, Costco seems to be buying the meat from large producers. That would account for the difference in our opinions and experiences.

Also, if Costco breaks down their own carcasses, why buy from IBP, a company that breaks the meat down? Is my understanding of what IBP does incorrect?

shel


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Shel, Costco doesn't break down any carcasses. They get the subprimals and break them down into steaks.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

I reall someone here saying that Costo broke down carcasses. I'll have to look for who said that and in what thread, if not this one.

shel


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

After readig your comments a few days ago, I checked the prices at a few butcher shops and meat departments. Even the most ourageously expensive shop didn't have prices that compared to whatyou mentioned with the exception of two cuts, and even then the prices only approached your quoted figures. Even Whole Foods, AKA _Whole Paycheck_, had prices that were closer to half what you noted.

There are two other butcher shops I'd like to check as it's been a while since I've visited them. They focus even more an meats from small, local herds, and they may in fact have somewhat higher prices than the places I've already checked. Frankly, I doubt their prices will even come close to the prices you've mentioned.

$12.00-lb ground beef is outrageous - someone's getting ripped off.

Of course, your comments make me wonder what the differences are between the farmers market beef and the Costco product. I can think of a lot of possible differences, although none that I can think of would require such outrageous prices as you've noted.

shel


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Nah there's no way they have enough room in their stores for a couple hundred a day.


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## oldschool1982 (Jun 27, 2006)

Now granted I do wear glasses and have the need for bifocals but I had the DW and DD check what I saw. I know there was a 12.00lb next to the ground beef and a 17.00lb next to the steaks and they confirmed it for me. Yet on the outside chance that we mistook things.......and I have no idea what the difference was. Yet I still stand on the fact that there is absolutely nothing wrong with Costco beef and many smaller butchers probably pull from the same beef pool as Costco.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

I'm not exactly sure who gets Costco's meat before Costco. But they don't even handle full "packers" on some cuts. For instance, only brisket "flats" go in the stores.

There's a range of Choice graded meat. Call it best, medium and barely. The SoCal Costco's I've shopped from have all been pretty consistent at providing mid-level Choice at prices which, for similar quality meat, are about 15% below regular supermarket prices. 

There's nothing all that special about Costco meat, nor is there anything all that special about their prices. "On Sale" is cheaper, and I have particular sources who provide good prices for certain cuts -- or I buy a "packer" or half a packer and break and steak myself. That's usually a 1/3 off retail. or more. 

All beef in this country is processed in a government inspected plant. Unfortunately, since the Reagan administration federal inspection doesn't mean what it used to. And the situation became much worse during the Bush period, inspections have become rare and cursory due to a shortage of man power, lack of morale and bad management. That's not politics or "conspiracy theory," it's simply history. There are state inspection schemes, and in California, those are still fairly robust. 

I have no doubt that Costco beef is as wholesome and safe as beef provided by any butcher. Costco certainly goes the extra mile for everything else -- including paying their employees decent wages. 

I buy hamburger and ground pork from Vien Dong III Superfoodwarehouse (yes, one word) in Rosemead because it's priced so low, is very fresh, and VD has GREAT fish and produce. The butchers all speak at least a couple of Asian languages, some English and maybe some Spanish. English is usually their weakest language, so blank looks and pointing are an important part of any transaction. I was buying ground meat to make meatloaf and the ground pork was looking pretty fat, so I asked what percentage of fat was in the ground beef. This involved all 6 butchers stopping what they were doing and everyone trying different languages. Eventually we hit on one that got the question across. Another huddle. The answer came back, "Nobody know." 

Now that's a butcher.

BDL


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## izbnso (May 12, 2007)

Shell, regional might be the name of the game. We don't even have Costco nearby, the closest one is in Birmingham (other end of the state and a much larger population center), as far as I know. There might be a few more around Huntsville but I'm not sure. This is Wal-Mart country and of the two close by me, one doesn't even have a butcher in the store, just a "meat manager".

Winn-Dixie is a grocery store in the South East, they are known as "The Beef People". When dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was a little girl, they actually could back that up. The Winn family was from Alabama (Montgomery to be exact) and the family owned large cattle yards. The best place in all the world to buy beef was the Winn-Dixie store in the eastern part of Montgomery. That was the store that the older members of the Winn family shopped in. My grandmother would always order her Christmas standing and crown rib roasts from that store (drive 35 mph down the highway to get it :lol and they were divine. Back then there was a good chance that the cow took its last breath with in miles of the store. Not so now, the Winn family divested and while the store still carries stuff that is special order elsewhere, it's not the same.

My husband went to the "upscale" grocery store (the pay more for the privilege of shopping there place) recently and bought a family pack of country style ribs (Boston but cut into "ribs") and a family sized ground beef. Since we are a family of 7 we buy the bigger packages and freeze. We separate and pack the meat as we are putting away the groceries. The teenager is assigned this task. 

She put away all but what was to be cooked for dinner the next night. When I went to get the "ribs" for dinner the next night, they smelled like death. I defrosted the beef and it was stinky too. Not sure what happened, but like I want them to replace it with more meat from their store. 

As I said in the previous post, my best friend owned and operated a butcher shop. And yeah a lot if not most of the butcher shops in my area get their meat from the same place as the grocery stores. Sadly the largest and oldest of our locally owned butcher shops is the one from which you would not want to feed your dog from (although you'd have to be in the business to know that). However, her former partner's parents own a shop that is not just a butcher shop but a slaughter house as well and I'd eat off their floor. Too bad they are well over an hour's drive from my house.

Shortly after the earth's crust began to cool, my husband lived in Kansas. His "first family" was pretty large as well (His and ours together make 9 children and 9 grandchildren so far). He and a friend would go in halfsies on a cow every year, and take it to the slaughter house because it was the cheapest way for him to provide meat for the family. We've talked about doing this, but with pork not beef (the kids prefer pork) but I need an extra deep freezer first.

I'm not sure if it would be economically viable for you, but maybe you have a slaughter house/butcher shop near you. Hey, if not you could always call Shroomgirl she loves to break down pigs. :smiles:


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## allie (Jul 21, 2006)

I usually buy my meats at a Kroger owned store. I have tried some local butchers with no success. The one who grows his own hogs, cows, chickens, and ducks sells to restaurants in Chicago first and the rejects were sold in his small store on his farm. We bought some pork chops for $1 per pound. When we got home with them, there was more fat and bones than meat. The chicken was ok but at $2 per pound and no real discernible difference from the grocery store "Golden Plump" chicken, I"ll pass on the added expense. The Boston butts ($1.59/lb, I think...been awhile) we bought for smoking were not any better than the ones on sale for $.99/lb. Other people, I know, bought meat from him and it was spoiled when they got home with it. He just opened his store in March or April and I noticed that the sign on the highway was gone a couple of weeks ago. I guess he couldn't make a go of it. No surprise there! For 2 or more times the price of the local grocery stores, you'd better sell excellent quality meats or people won't continue to give you their business.

Then there's the butcher we called for 6 Boston butts to prepare for a funeral dinner last fall. We didn't ask for sale prices or any special favors, just needed the butts quickly. They were out of date two days before he sold them to us! That is NOT what I expect when paying regular price for meat. I don't have a problem buying reduced meat but wouldn't even purchase it two days after the sale by date.

I used to frequent a small local owned grocery store that had really good meats. I paid a little more but felt it was worth it because of the quality. Their meats suddenly went downhill and I rarely ever set foot in that store anymore. 

For now, I'll just keep buying where I get consistent quality. Oh yeah, they have onsite butchers at the Kroger owned stores so I can get them to cut or slice items for me and they've even given me butcher's twine for free when the store didn't have any for sale.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

I do both, buying from Sysco and/or Ritz, as well as a local butcher.
It depends on what I'm after, the time-frame, etc.
The quality and pricing is comparable.
The main reason I use the butcher is for the service.
I can get special cuts.
I can get items on short notice, like call him now and receive it later today.
I can by bulk and have him store it for me, shipping it as I need it. (Ritz will do this for me occasionally as well, like when I buy long on the prime rib just before the holidays or summer, when I know the prices are going to spike).
I can also buy long on non-butchered items, like 100 cases of prawns, etc., and my butcher will store it for me, dropping off what I need from that stock with my regular order.
See?
Service.


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## dillbert (Jul 2, 2008)

>> See?
>>Service.

oh yeah. a whole lotta companies need to rethink their existence.

in the mid-80's I worked with a company that blatantly and with full intent set out to become "customer oriented" - we completely re-engineered / overhauled the _entire_ joint, top to bottom.

in two years sales went from 300 million to 600 million, kept on going.

service is good; lip service no work.


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## miketruter (Jul 31, 2008)

I find that meat from the butcher is more expensive than meat from the supermarket. When hosting a dinner party, I usually buy my meat from a butcher - I get to choose exactly what I want. For my usual during-the-week cooking, the prepackaged Supermarket meat is fine.


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