# Are we artists, craftsmen or some kind of cult?



## psycho chef (Feb 1, 2007)

If chefs work was true art, it would not be judged by precise and generally accepted standards. If someone orders a steak well done, we cook it that way no matter how much it kills us inside. To me, true art cannot be judged. It is pure expression. _Artistic_ however, is how I would describe a craftsman. Carving beautiful furniture or blowing glass or cooking. Making things as beautiful as possible but with efficiency and finesse. If food and cooking were truly a fine art, restaurants would be like a museum and _suggest donations._ Let the visitor decide how much it's worth. I always wondered if anyone had the cajones do try this. Then I ran across this article.

ABC News: A restaurant without checks

Not exactly my idea but close. In my version the waiters and cooks get a cut of the _donations. _I want to volunteer to cook there if i'm ever in town.


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## harpua (May 4, 2005)

cult CULT!


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## adamm (Jul 16, 2005)

in my eyes im not and artist, craftsman yes, to me an artist is somone who paints or draws or sculp or somthing of that sort. A craftsman builds things, stacks things, makes things look pretty or rearanges objects to look so. If a wood worker would make the best looking piece of furniture they wouldnt be an artist they would be a craftsman. I guess in a way you can consider us artist but in my elses i will never be and artist. but thats just me.


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## foodnfoto (Jan 1, 2001)

Wow! Karma Cafe sounds cool.
I love the "Pay it forward idea."

I'd better not get started in the whole art/craft thing, other than it's nice to see your perspective represented Gladyce.:smiles:


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

this was an outrageously heated topic several years ago....what it basically comes down to is how each person views what their doing.
I'ma thinkin' there is an awful lot of grey....sometimes art sometimes craft....always cult.


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## iconoclast (Aug 8, 2007)

this sums it up the best. well put.


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## jigz369 (Apr 20, 2007)

For what it's worth, in Canada until the late 1970's if you were looking for a chef's position in the newspaper, you looked in the "Arts" section and not the "Trades" or "Hotel, Restaurant, Hospitality" sections. I think we are Artists, just look at the masterpiece I just plated!!!
Just my opinion though....


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## foodnfoto (Jan 1, 2001)

I think you guys should check out this link that I posted in the Pastry chefs forum.
No one's read it, I guess because my title was not very revealing. 
Anyway, here is where food becomes art. 
I agree with Gladyce that what we do is craft, because we do it to please and conform to a market pressure. Art does not do that, in fact, fails in it's mission when conforming to market pressure.

Good art challenges preconcieved notions about the world, gets us to shift our views if only for a moment, forces us to look beyond the surface of what our senses tell us and often offends greater accepted cultural norms.

Cosimo is great at doing this. Don't be afraid to work to find deeper meanings in his installations. 
See here:http://www.cheftalk.com/forums/profe...mos-again.html

I'm going Friday if anyone in the area wants to join me-send me a PM and we'll link up.


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## ras1187 (Oct 3, 2006)

I happen to be a fan of Anthony Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential, just about every place I have worked in has resembled this in one way or another (though not as extreme).

The most interestingly bizarre people end up working here, and it is always a pleasure to lend an open ear to hear one of their crazy stories.


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## buonaboy (Sep 5, 2007)

Chefs should not consider themselves artists, it's pretentious, they can be incredibly artistic and food should be artfully prepared, but in the end, does it taste good and is it pleasant to eat? We provide consumables at minimum, and an experience at best -not unlike theatre....hmmm.. Maybe we're more like play-writes or composers. In my mind a hand carved marble sculpture can be art, but as soon as you attach a light-bulb to the top -it's just a pretty lamp. That's what keeps me from thinking of food as art. I'm proud to be a craftsman not an artist. 

-chocolate sculptures are art..... -until you deside to eat them.
ciao
mike


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## iconoclast (Aug 8, 2007)

if it is an art, this is the only form of art that utilizes all five senses... see, hear, taste, touch smell... i cant think of any other artform which is capable of this.


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## ldzpapa (Mar 11, 2007)

An artist is one who cannot help but express themselves in new and challenging ways, a craftsmen will do the same thing again and again striving to attain perfection, and a cultist will make great sacrifices of themselves for the whole, yeah, I'd say were all three.


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## pgr555 (Aug 3, 2007)

I would say the cooking is the craft and the staging/plating is the art. I was recently introduced to a potential client as a food artist. I have always had artistic tendencies and do now see my catering as my artistic outlet, so this title appealed to me. I learned in art classes years ago that sight is really where the ability to create art comes from, not the hands. Don't we all use our sight & vision to create the final plates/event? And as for the cult part... well, we are foodies, aren't we?
pgr


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## jmars (Nov 8, 2007)

me and the chef have a friend that has special dietary needs, no garlic
dairy, eggs...ect. it is our job to come up with a nice dinner for him, when he comes in. I think feeding people with care and humility is more noble
than art


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## dinadilo1 (Nov 12, 2007)

Hi friend, in recent time I have gained lot’s of weight and if I go walk and run for 1 hour each day and eat healthy can I lose 10 pounds in 1 month? Is it a impossible kind of target? And if it is not possible then plz suggest me a way by which I can loose weight quickly. Because after 1 month I am going to marry, and I want to look slim and sexy at that day.


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## oldschool1982 (Jun 27, 2006)

I tend to lean toward the craft side of things but can definitely conceed to the Arts side as well. Although I don't go for the "Tall Food" preparation/presentation it's certainly a crowd pleaser and has a defined place and great following with in the Culinary Arts world. Yet for this whole thing to work, it is necessary for both sides to meet in the middle. After all the food can look like a work of art and taste, umm err uhhhh...... like dog food and likewise food can look like dogfood and taste out of this world. (unfortunately no one will know because it looks like doogfood) We all eat with our eye's first!


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## chefchad (Nov 20, 2007)

The basis of being a professional Chef is different for many. Is it any less professional to serve Clubhouse sandwichs & burgers at a restaurant than it is to prepare fois gras with brioche & truffles omelettes. As a professional Chef who has worked in both settings I can offer this comparison.
If I were a carpenter and a little old lady wanted an extra step added to her front porch, it might not be the dream job a carpenter hopes to get, but how much are you helping that person?
It is HOW you do it not WHAT you do that makes you a true pro in any profession. So be an artistic Chef or a "pump the orders out every day grunt labourer" like 99% of us. Either way we are all doing the same thing. Trying to create repeat business. So we in turn can eat.
PS; definetly a cult, gluttens for punishment, all of us.:lips:


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## psycho chef (Feb 1, 2007)

Are the steps sturdy and level? Were you efficient with your cuts and not waste any wood? Is it consistent with the other steps? Or was it just slapped together for granny because it wasn't a "dream job"? These are also things which chefs are judged by. Artists cannot be judged in such a way. Art can be wasteful, sloppy, slow, extremely oddball etc..Wasteful sloppy and slow are not great chef attributes(although oddball seems fairly common). Chefs, like carpenters are craftsmen. Both's work can be incredibly artistic, but in the end the carpenter, burger slinger and brioche and truffle guy are all judged by the same standards: quality/speed/efficiency


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## bughut (Aug 18, 2007)

I think there is ARTISTRY in presentation, in making a meal/platter/buffet the eye pleaser that invites the customer with expectations. Further than that i think If you really feel you've created a masterpiece, then you have. I suppose its personal sometimes.


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## philip terry (Dec 11, 2011)

An artist designs.... and everything involves design, or the creative arrangement of elements and structures, adding, taking away, refining components. We design the menu, design the kitchen, design the plate. I would say a good chef could be called a craftsman. But a truly masterful chef would need artistic and creative flair aswell as the craftsmanship. 

The latest masterchef champion used to be a graffiti artist, there's your answer.


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

I would say "Idiots" In what profession would someone work so many hours, miss holidays, family functions & special events, for little pay in comparison to other professions, and return home every evening with a great sense of accomplishment. Only an Idiot would do something like that, I've been an Idiot for 30 years now....................ChefBillyB


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## dcarch (Jun 28, 2010)

To me it is very simple:

You can call it whatever you want, it is all in the eye of the beholder.

Cooking is in part identical to architecture, you can call it functional art.

Cooking is in part idential to some aspects of sand painting in some cultures, it is transient art.

dcarch


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## chefboyarg (Oct 28, 2008)

i like it


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

all three plus, plus, plus, plus.....

without waxing on and sounding like my head is in the clouds, i absolutley view myself as both an artist, who NEEDS to create and someone with the skillset/toolset to do it. creating is such an intergral part of me, the core  of me, like my breath or my cells, or my dna...i can't avoid it... just as i can't avoid breathing....i am destined to do this...period.....it's my 'beast of burden'.... art is about the human soul and as the artist, i am connected to that humanness, that soul.  a good artist/crafter  will take care of and respect that fragileness...i am destined like painters and musicians and divas and maestros, which may appear to set me apart from 'others'.....some, who don't know ,call it an elitist attitude, but i don't believe it is...it's the complexity side of an artist...of course, it does helps if you know what you're doing, which is where the craft part comes in..personally,i learn most by sharing...the spinning of it....as for the cult thing...i like to think of it as more of a brother/sistahhood rather than a 'cult...

joey


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## guts (Jun 22, 2011)

There's already a very well written, well thought out book on this topic called "Culinary Artistry". Read it. Also, Herve This and Pierre Gagnaire's "Cooking: The Quintessential Art" delves into the idea of chefs as artists.


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## dcarch (Jun 28, 2010)

My pan fried Pollock with 3 sauces.

Art or not is up to you.

I cook and I eat. That's all.

dcarch


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

Dc,

Some of the photos you have posted on CT have been absolutely beautiful. This one in particular has a Picasso feel to it.

I am a fan of yours. There is one pic you did of a lobster.....I am still speechless about that one.

Your an artist, plain and simple.

Petals.

When we work with any type of food , we create.


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

just curious and just a guess,,,

roasted red pepper...or maybe sirachi...just don't tell me it's ketchup!

roasted yellow pepper

balsamic redux

lovely...lively!

joey


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## guts (Jun 22, 2011)

That is one ugly ass plate.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Some Art, some Craft  but a lot of Passion.  The plate with the Pollock to me is a slight bit to busy and I almost missed the Pollock, but if thats your style so be it. I would  put 1/2 of one sauce on one side 1/2 on the other and drizzled a bit of the third over it.


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## dcarch (Jun 28, 2010)

"-----but if thats your style so be it---"

No, not my style in general.

There is a  statement to be made with my concoction, it is just as I said, “Art is in the eye of the beholder”

The works by the very well known artist Jackson Pollock are very controversial. Some say they are trash and any kid can make them, many museums consider them high art, worth multi-million dollars each.

Therefore, it’s a lot of fun to cook a Pollock fish in the style of Jackson Pollock. My photo is superimposed on two of his works.

dcarch


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## philip terry (Dec 11, 2011)

well put durangojo.... I think we are on a similar trip. I cannot rest for a second without creating something and using my imagination.


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## philip terry (Dec 11, 2011)

I think we can also break it down further, do you as a chef have an instinct for colour, contrast, composition, lightness and textures...?

Look at the colour of this steak......


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## dcarch (Jun 28, 2010)

durangojo said:


> just curious and just a guess,,,
> 
> roasted red pepper...or maybe sirachi...just don't tell me it's ketchup!
> 
> ...


Very good!

roasted red pepper...a few drops of sirachi

roasted yellow pepper

&

Black garlic sauce.

dcarch


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## bughut (Aug 18, 2007)

Art with crispy edges...I like it dcarch


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## philip terry (Dec 11, 2011)

Tom Peters makes a good point - http://www.tompeters.com/docs/TLBTSynopsis_37_Design.pdf


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## philip terry (Dec 11, 2011)

Tom Peters makes a good point - http://www.tompeters.com/docs/TLBTSynopsis_37_Design.pdf


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## williamalbrecht (Nov 26, 2011)

I'm inclined to agree with "all of the above, plus.."

The craft is in the cooking itself, the artistry comes through in the plating.

As far as "plus..," you could even go as far as to call a chef a scientist -- despite the negative feelings a lot of people have towards molecular gastronomy, even if it just comes down to a minor disdain for the term itself; it's science.


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## dcarch (Jun 28, 2010)

Some forms of cooking has become performing arts.

dcarch


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## prettycake (Dec 23, 2011)

I do pastry to satisfy my personal passion. I do* not *do pastry as a career or business, purely hobby for me. I do it when I feel like doing it and not when people want me to just because they pay me to do it. AT my own time and pace. I make my cakes for my friends and family as gifts or for "just because".. I do not charge them for anything. But I admire all you Chefs for doing what you are doing. I get my inspiration from all of you..

Whether I am making French Macarons or a six tier wedding cake or cupcakes for the school kids, I do them like I am getting paid for it. No short cuts nor substitutions. And I present them like I am selling them at Laduree in Paris. Gave this Barrel cake to my Supervisor at work on his birthday:



These cupcakes I gave the school kids at my son's school.



I made this for a friend's daughter's 21st birthday. This kid loves to surf and the beach:


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## margcata (Sep 18, 2011)

Awesome thread ... enjoyable ...

See my Photo Gallery with native Barcelona based ( Sant Pau )  5 Michelin Star Chef Carme Ruscadella´s Planetary Orbit Wine Candies  ...

Culinary artists are artists and artisanal crafts persons ...  and passion is key word. Without passion for the art, it would not have impact nor love.

Margcata


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