# Preventing burns in kitchen



## koak (Nov 3, 2015)

Hello everyone, 

My name is Kristine, I'm currently pursuing my masters in human centered design and engineering at Northwestern University. I've always been interested in cooking, food tasting, trying new recipes and watching cooking related tutorials, shows and attending cooking classes. I wanted to take my passion further through my thesis. 

I'm currently designing/developing a new product for professional chefs in restaurants that could help them prevent burns and/or provide a better, more convenient way to touch hot handles and other hot items. I've talked to several chefs and observed what's going on in couple restaurant kitchens during busy hours. The key insights I've found was that 1) many chefs get burns because they touch hot things that don't look hot and 2) chefs always hold towels to handle hot items - often times constantly holding the towel even though they need both hands to do things and looking around for a towel. 

I have couple ideas that makes it easier for chefs to hold hot pan handles and other hot items in the kitchen during busy times. 

1) Armband: This is a very simple armband similar to a tight (breathable) sleeve. You can pull it out to wrap around your hand to hold hot items and when you don't need it anymore, just slide it back up your arm. It will be made of special breathable material on the end that mostly stays on the arm and the other end that will be wrapped around your hand will be a heat and water resistant towel.

2) Simple half mitten attached to body: This is a special material mitten that can be easily slipped on your hand and when not using it, it can be attached on the body via a magnet, velcro or clip. 

3) This is a side idea but some kind of a band or some attachment to a pan handle that changes color from black to red when it reaches temperature that causes skin burns - purpose is to give visual feedback that something is hot. 

It's been really challenging for me to get in touch with professional chefs as and any feedback, comment or thoughts from you would mean so much! Please respond (if you don't mind) with your name, brief description of your cooking experience/careers so I have a general understanding of who I'm getting feedback from. 

If you live in Chicago, Evanston or anywhere nearby, and are interested in talking to me in person about my project, please let me know as well. I would love to get input from a chef/cook with experiences in working in restaurants. 

I appreciate your help and I hope to get some replies soon.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

There are currently insulated handles that fit over the handles of sautee pans.










I have had visions of producing culinary safety items with my son. We dabbled a bit in Chromism, especially Thermochromism. Might want to check into that if you haven't already


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## grande (May 14, 2014)

When making armbands, etc., remember that we sweat a lot and everything gets trashed... have you seen those towels at the end of the night?


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Hi Kristine,

I think you have a good idea with some kind of sleeve to fit over handles that changes colour when hot. Silicone sleeves almost always end up in the sink or garbage., they just slide off, its the nature of silicone....

Mittens are only good for high production kitchens. By the time you get mittens on, I can have a pan out of the oven and work on something else. Mittens only make sense when you will be unloading an oven for 10 or more minutes, or taking heavy cumbersome roasting pans out.

Please, nothing attatched to the body. Cooks are constantly moving, brushing against stove knobs, door handles, shelving, and hot pots. So nothing attatched to the body.

Most serious burns happen with deep fryers, particularily in small kitchens. Large kitchens usually have 3 or more fryer plumbed up to a built in filtering unit and pump--no spills or burns. Small kitchens with only one fryer have to filter the oil separatly. I have a special place in my spleen, oozing with vitriol for N.American fryer mnfctrs. as they provide no built in safety features to filter oil, they just supply a length of pipe. Seriously, I was working with fryers 30 years ago in Europe that had built in filtering sytems.


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## koak (Nov 3, 2015)

To: panini

Thank you for your input! I have looked into thermochromatic materials. I have ordered a sample package of them and are trying some things out. My other part of the design includes the "alert" aspect - to let chefs know something is hot before they even touch them. I was envisioning a line of colored silicone bands with thermochromatic strips attached that change color when the item reaches certain temperature that's dangerous for skin. 

The handles, I've also looked into some, but I shyed away from them because so many restaurants according to my research use tons of pans and pots without any handle coverings and providing the restaurants with many handles seemed unrealistic because the chefs would go through attaching individual handles to each pot and pans. Those also trap gunk between the tiny gap where the handles are slid into so maintenance could also be an issue. 

If there was some kind of a wearable that could simply be used as another version of a wrap-around-hand towel, would you be willing to use such a thing?


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## koak (Nov 3, 2015)

To: foodpump

Hello! Thank you for your feedback! 

That's a good point about the silicone sleeves...were there any particular ones you've used for such purposes? 

I'm wondering though, could there be a way to expedite the process of putting on an oven mitt? I was envisioning something more of a quick slip on that's more like a half mitt so you don't have to take the time to fully put the mitt over your entire hand. What do you currently use to quickly hold hot items? If you use a towel for hot things, do you place it somewhere in the kitchen when you're not using it?

Thank you for bringing up deep fryers as well. As you said, for small kitchens, the fryers require filtering oil separately. Does this cause burns from splashing against your hand and arms? Would you ever wear something on your arms that's comfortable and also breathable, and ideally could also be used as something to wrap your hand in to hold hot things?


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## koak (Nov 3, 2015)

To: Grande,

Thank you for your post! That is a really good point. I was envisioning a material that's similar to the Underarmour clothings that prevents collection of sweat on skin. I wanted to somehow mix such breathable material with a towel like material on one end for holding hot items. Would you ever wear something on your arm (assuming it's comfortable and doesn't make your arms sweaty) for holding hot items quickly (by simply pulling the band out to cover your hand with) even if you had towels you normally use with you?


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## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

I don't have _extensive_ experience in a commercial kitchen, but have experience in the design field. FWIW. . .

Find a material for pan handles that dissipates heat (fast) enough that it won't burn skin (Tall order, I know. I suspect many manufacturers have already done R&D in this regard, and that's why it doesn't exist. Yet.). I'm guessing most burns usually occur because someone isn't paying attention as a result of being slammed with tickets. I'd posit that placing a sleeve on the handle would reduce the number of burns simply because it slows down the process. Not something a line cooks wants when they're 'in the weeds.'

As a side note, I think anybody with any experience in a commercial kitchen learns the side towel thing. Quickly. It becomes second nature. Line cooks, in my experience, usually have at least two towels slipped into their aprons. I used to roll a third one up and squeeze it between the small of my back and the apron strings in case the first two either became wet or too slimy/ dirty/ oily - or misplaced. Nothing like touching a blistering hot pan handle with a wet towel. Yes. I've done that.

RE : Sleeves. How about a new line of pans with a heat sensitive material strip already in the pan handle? Like Tefal with the red spot in the middle, only reversed. The only other thing I can think of is what foodpump said. Waste will be a big issue. These should be very cheap and in quantity.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

@koak ,

I feel most of the burns that occur on the kitchen line stem from a lack of focus on exactly what you're doing. This isn't a negative thing, it's just that sometimes there are so many things happening at one time you don't have the mental capacity to carry over the thought of danger before you make your next move. A good line cook is usually 3-5 steps ahead of him or herself. It compares to many challenges, like chess moves. This comment has nothing to do with multi tasking, but, THEN you throw in the danger of other cooks vessels and tools next to you and it's virtually impossible not to reach out without thinking. Then of course you're dealing with the noise of a single engine airplane landing between the line and the dining room.

So when I thought about what you are thinking about, I just ruled out anything that took an additional movement or thought to work. My son had the idea of developing a secondary skin (not glove) that you apply and is breathable that would be heat resistant. Something along the lines of that liquid bandaid stuff.

Well that ended when he went off to get a MIS, and engineering Masters. He did just leave a large computer co. to come home to do all his pre med and take the MCAT. He thinking i Limb and AI Limb. Who knows, after your Masters and such you guys can collaborate on something.


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## peteypete (Oct 4, 2015)

It's not often I pick up a hot pan and burn the palm of my hand. I'm usually doubled up on t towel! 

I tend to burn myself by nicking the corner of a pot, or a splash or spit of hot oil/water, I suppose to prevent burns in the kitchen you need to be more aware and don't touch hot stuff


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## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

A kitchen is a dangerous place.  You are dealing with sharp knives, fire, and for the most part mentally unstable people using them.  I think its great to have an idea to help our industry but cooking is not that complicated.  Assume every pan is hot.  Smart people and experienced people always have a kitchen towel(or 2) on them and then there is no issue that you are searching to fix a problem.  Inexperienced or slow people used their bare hands to grab possibly smoking hot pans.  After a couple of good burns they usually become smart and experienced people.  If they keep burning themselves over and over then you have bigger problems to worry about with them,  Do I burn myself, yes all the time, are they serious and slow me down in anyway, no.  It's part of the job.  You can't play with fire with out getting burned.  Same goes for people who cut themselves often.  Yes, chefs cut themselves but it should never be a normal thing.  Usually its the same careless or hung over /high guys with cheap knives.  That's just the way things are in a real restaurant kitchen.  It's not corporate and not safe and never should be,  that's why I like what I do


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## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

hookedcook said:


> *A kitchen is a dangerous place. You are dealing with sharp knives, fire, and for the most part mentally unstable people using them.* I think its great to have an idea to help our industry but cooking is not that complicated. Assume every pan is hot. Smart people and experienced people always have a kitchen towel(or 2) on them and then there is no issue that you are searching to fix a problem. Inexperienced or slow people used their bare hands to grab possibly smoking hot pans. After a couple of good burns they usually become smart and experienced people. If they keep burning themselves over and over then you have bigger problems to worry about with them, Do I burn myself, yes all the time, are they serious and slow me down in anyway, no. It's part of the job. You can't play with fire with out getting burned. Same goes for people who cut themselves often. Yes, chefs cut themselves but it should never be a normal thing. Usually its the same careless or hung over /high guys with cheap knives. That's just the way things are in a real restaurant kitchen. It's not corporate and not safe and never should be, that's why I like what I do


Excellent. I love your post. You nailed it. Can I quote the entire paragraph in other places? I thought I would just want to use the first two sentences but then upon reading the entire post, I realized you have a wonderful, insightful, accurate way of describing a commercial kitchen. Straight, no chaser. Kudos.


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## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

Go ahead its all good.  I'm American but decided to leave the states about 10 years ago and being a chef I'm able to work for the most part where I want. I left because of the direction the country was heading of being over safe, over sensitive, and over policed but that's a different story.  One of my last jobs in the states was exec sous chef at one the big ski resorts in Colorado.  After being hired I was informed that all of my cooks and me had to sign a contract to wear cut gloves and a latex glove over them.   I thought it was a joke at first.  How do you brunoise with a shark glove on your hand??  I told my staff to forget about them and do what we have to do to produce good food.  A intern cut herself weeks later and I had to deal with corporate grilling me why she got cut because she should have had a cut glove on.  They could have fired her and me because she broke the contract not wearing the glove.  ?????  Finished the ski season and on my way out told the corporate idiots with their degrees and theories on cooking who have never been behind a line what the real world of cooking to go f#ck themselves..  That was my last corporate restaurant job ever


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

hookedcook said:


> I had to deal with corporate grilling me why she got cut because she should have had a cut glove on. They could have fired her and me because she broke the contract not wearing the glove. ????? Finished the ski season and on my way out told the corporate idiots with their degrees and theories on cooking who have never been behind a line what the real world of cooking to go f#ck themselves.. That was my last corporate restaurant job ever


I don't think you're getting the "bigger" picture.

If there's one thing "corporate" can do well, it's to cover their arses.

But from what?

Gub-mint, that's what. Don't know anything about the state of Colorado and it's laws on worker's compensation or labour law.

Here in Vancouver the law is very simple, "The onus is on the employer" meaning the employer gets blame for everything and anything. If an employer can proove (at his own expense, of course) that he took the proper steps to train and discipline the employee in regards to safety, the case is dropped, but the employer is fined some other trumped up charge, never related to the initial case and sometimes going back as far as two years. n This crappola is modeled after Californy's labour laws.

Shark gloves, steel toed boots, vinyl gloves all the time, whatever. Mainly the employer is trying to cover their arse from legal action should an incident occur. No wonder Syck-co has so many prepped veg and convienience products, the people who buy them are the ones who've been fined for having someone cut themselves on a (plugged in...) meat slicer, or skating around the kitchen in flip-flops and halter-tops


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## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

foodpump said:


> I don't think you're getting the "bigger" picture.
> 
> If there's one thing "corporate" can do well, it's to cover their arses.
> 
> ...


That's why I left, instead of bitching and complaining, the world is a big place. Just because you were born somewhere doesn't mean you have to stay there. The whole sue everybody for anything USA attitude has really made common sense and accountability go out the window


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

@hookedcook

Great insight. Well I guess. I guess all people who have accidents are stupid.

Some people just like to stay in a shit eating world. I am so glad there are people like the OP who are trying to make a difference. Without out progressive thinkers

people would still be holding pieces of meat over a fire. But then again, I guess some of us still are. 


hookedcook said:


> Inexperienced or slow people used their bare hands to grab possibly smoking hot pans.


Profiling people as SLOW, speaks volume about you and the SLOW people probably burn themselves because intelligent people like you leave hot pans around.

I enjoy being a corporate idiot with degrees, I guess that's why it makes my day when a Executive Sous Chef tells me to go f__k myself. It grounds me and drives to

go do something something charitable.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

hookedcook said:


> That's why I left, instead of bitching and complaining, the world is a big place. Just because you were born somewhere doesn't mean you have to stay there. The whole sue everybody for anything USA attitude has really made common sense and accountability go out the window


Ah, I see.... Thing is, I own my business and have the gumption to educate myself and work around gov't laws. I did this after working in three different continents and six countries. "sue everybody for anything USA" doesn't fly here, the gov't fines, not sues.

Don't take it the wrong way, but I'm trying to educate you too on how and why other people think the way they do. Doesn't mean you have to agree, just be informed and use that informatin to your advantage.


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## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

panini said:


> @hookedcook
> 
> Great insight. Well I guess. I guess all people who have accidents are stupid.
> 
> ...


No accidents happen, that's life. Constant accidents or people claiming workmens comp for superficial accidents created by someones lack of judgment or skills is their own fault. Unfortunately the US is one of the few places in the world where you can be negligent, hurt yourself and then sue and blame someone else and actually make money off it. Meat over fire???Are you serious. I don't need a silicon pad on a handle of a sauté pan that changes colors to let me know the pan is hot. Once again, the reason I left the states. The reason I know the pan is hot and use a towel to pick it up is because there is a bright yellow and blue gas flame underneath it so I know its hot. As for the exec sous comment, my boss was cool and we had no problems, we dealt with corporate together. In the end after I gave my notice and the corporate guys who hadn't worked on a line in 20 years asked why I told them my reasons. Didn't pull a 1/2 baked quitting the grill episode. It was a good thing, now I'm cooking on a 20 million dollar yacht and no cut gloves or lawyers. Cheers


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

foodpump said:


> I don't think you're getting the "bigger" picture.
> 
> If there's one thing "corporate" can do well, it's to cover their arses.
> 
> ...


I have been here on this issue with the corporate suits. They really only think about money. They are bean counters after all. They are not cooks or Chefs. Understandably they don't get the idea that wearing a cut-glove and a latex glove over it does not allow for handling a knife properly and executing the job. Their only issue is and will always be saving money.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

ChefRoss, I'll respect what you're saying because you have great experience. But I just can't listen to listen to someone spout about something they read in the papers or watch on TV.

Leave the country, but don't trash it. Fact is, there is little under 2% of workers comp claims that are fraudulent. We got workers compensation here in the US from Europe (France, Germany).

I just felt it rude to put down the ideas of the OP. who's out to get a Masters, not make a buck. Then call people slow because they burn themselves. Enjoy your yacht. There a dime a dozen anyway. There is more for sale then VW's. Plus there wouldn't be any jobs on them if not for corporations.' That's all from me'. I like the OP trying to think outside the box and maybe try to help the slow people. Fact is, this industry would be better off with more slow people.


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## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

panini said:


> Some people just like to stay in a shit eating world. I am so glad there are people like the OP who are trying to make a difference. Without out progressive thinkers
> 
> people would still be holding pieces of meat over a fire. But then again, I guess some of us still are.


I'll try and stay away from politics, as this thread is becoming dangerously close to a discussion of governance.

Design should be pragmatic and solve problems. The prevailing attitude in this country(USA) is that everything can be fixed, and new "innovative" products are developed, designed, and engineered to fill a need. Regardless if there is, in fact, a need or problem to be solved. Sometimes the problem isn't even identified. Much is driven by economics and free markets. Many new products create more problems instead. Products are developed to address the _result_ of a problem, instead of looking at the _cause._ Americans want their cake and eat it too. This is culturally ingrained. We want a cure for cancer, but ignore the cause. All the while spending hoards of money on research while industry gets a free pass.

In this case, pans get hot. People get burned. Putting a sleeve on the handle doesn't solve the real underlying problem while creating three others (waste, inventory, and cooking process alteration). Proper training and paying attention solves the immediate problem. One should assume EVERY pan on the stove or not, is hot. Accidents will happen. You're born, you die. This is life. Embrace it.

The problem to be solved is the transference of heat from the pan to the handle - Creating high heat and have it be localized to the pan itself. This is why I suggested a material that dissipates heat fast enough not to burn skin. Doesn't exist as far as I know. Induction cooking addressed the problem of an open flame. Simple and too the point. Until a material is found to address this "problem," the only solution is to prevent human error through training and awareness. The reason we want to solve the result of the problem instead a complete overhaul because it is perceived as being too much trouble and not financially feasible. So we take baby steps by putting bandaids on systemic problems because we think it fuels the economy. I do believe, optimistically, that this will change. Not everything is as I describe, but much is.

Imagine commercial kitchens of the future where the application of heat to a surface to cook food is done in another way. Safer, more efficient, with the same results. Maybe the technology and materials don't exist yet. Or just change the entire brigade system of restaurant kitchens. In the mean time. . .It's still a craft that requires good old fashioned personal attention. Just like old time photography or alchemy.

I'm sorry if I sound like a negative nancy, koak.

/end rant/


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

You gotta love the forearm burns though.  Never trust a chef who doesn't have forearm burns.


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Most burns are caused by carelessness on someones part.


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## samcanchef (Nov 6, 2015)

I don't know that designing a new product is the ticket here. I think perhaps the secret is refining an existing one. I know that I have seen and tried all manner of protective equipment from potholders, to oven mitts, to silicone "grabbers," all of which were designed to keep me from burning myself. Of the ideas you have mentioned, I think the sleeve is the best concept. However, I cannot stand having anything on my arms much below the elbow when I'm cooking. Not because of the heat, but because I am constantly reaching into bowls and all manner of containers and don't want my sleeves touching the product within. That might be something to keep in mind while working out your concept of design.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

kuan said:


> You gotta love the forearm burns though. Never trust a chef who doesn't have forearm burns.


 Huh... Last month I was at at the doctor's for a checkup. He looks at my forearms, is horrified, and asks, "My God! What happened?!"

I glance down at my arms and say,

"Oh those.. Convection oven., yep pretty sure its the convection. Oil splashes from the grill are lower down and much worse. "

He looks at me like I've got antlers growing out of my nose...... .


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## chezpopp (Aug 8, 2015)

Wow. A lot of good points from a lot of knowledgeable people. For me a side towel folded the proper way to provide layering goes in my left hand and tongs in my right. They never leave my hand. I make sure it stays dry by using a different towel to wipe rims and spills. My pan towel is an important part of my station. I dont know that i would use another product even if it was available as the side towel is second nature and just feels right. Birns happen even when being absolutely careful. Hot oil and hot pans are a hazard. If you get burned you work through it. Those that cant or dont should examine if restaurant life is for them. I believe a well designed product would be very marketable in the corporate world. I worked corporate for one year and was written up multiple times for failing to wear my cut glove. I was more likely to cut myself while wearing it because it blocked the tactile feed back those of us with knife skills become accustomed to. I agreed with the policy as many people did not have solod knife skills and the cut glove protected them and the company. I was never fired for the write ups but they existed in file along with many client emails about the high quality food i put out. I also never tried to file a comp claim and they would have been protected had i ever cut myself. There is a market for a product like that i am sure of it. I am not sure the restaurant world would adapt it but definately the corporate dining world. The big issue i have with this is people being burned by hot pan handles that they grab. The first safety lesson that should be drilled into new employees is that everything is hot. Even if it is not. Assume every rhing you go to touch in a kitchen is hot. This is the one time where assuming doesnt make an ass out of anyone. As a dishwasher i burned myself once pretty bad but the message was reciev3d loud and clear. Never grab a pan or touch anything bare handed because you never know.


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## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

Didn't mean to offend anybody or trash the states.  It's just not my cup of tea anymore.  Education is great and degrees are good.  I just don't understand how any of those plans work in the real world or what the need is?  Are you going to slip off every silicon pan handle when they go to the dish pit and who puts it back on then they slip off.  Real shocker breaking news,  if you put a silicon pan handle over an open flame it gets hot.  Seriously smoking hot,  so you are training someone to trust a pan handle when if that had a towel whatever they grab they are safe.  It's black and white.  Towel, no burn,  no towel get burned.  Once again KISS.   Not to be a Debbie downer but my  "limited experience" in corporate has made me not want to go back for more.  You are a number, have meetings about meetings, have to constantly change the menu based on statistics and what your competitor's are doing, ect. To each his own, I prefer to work for a private owner where I trust him and he trusts me.  The best new corporate great idea is the online application 200 question psychological and math exam to cook food??  I'm sure a real chef had input on that. I just came on this site to get some paco jet help.  Alright,  I work enough at my job no more food talk on my free time for tonight!!!!


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

To me there are just some things that come along with the territory.

In a kitchen with knives, hot pots and pans, slippery floors, and so on accidents are going to happen.

There really is only so much that can be done to keep those accidents from being regular. Trying to re-invent the wheel sometimes has unforeseen circumstances.

Pretty much everyone knows what HACCP (hazard analysis critical control point) is. It's been around for a while now.

I was a banquet Chef in this place that had the waitstaff carry plated and lidded dinner plates on those oval trays.

Some girls could handle 12 dinners, others only 4.

An analysis of this practice concluded that carrying plated dinners can cause unsafe posture for the carrier and can result in back problems.

A review by the HACCP team concluded that rolling carts would take care of the problem.

Plans were drawn up, carts purchased and the crew trained.

First night under the new system, all hell broke loose.

When the transition was proposed and implemented the one thing that was overlooked was that some banquets were weddings with a removable dance floor.

The floor was made as wood plates that fit together like a puzzle, but left an 1 1/2" curb that these carts couldn't traverse.

The first cart went out, hit the dance floor and 12 dinners went on the floor.After that fiasco, we had to change yet again.

So, then the carts came out of the kitchen and were abruptly stopped by the dance floor. The cart had to be left there and the dinners dispersed from there.

My point is that things must be thought through from all the angles. While I appreciate the OP and the concept, I'm not sure what a good compromise would be.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

And carts are slow.  The good banquet waiters carry twelve plates at once.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

I'm feeling bad for Kristine, the o.p. as this thread has gone off on a tangent.

However I do feel that innovation and technology should be applied to kitchens and kitchen tools.  I personally feel that a pot handle that turns colour when its hot is a pretty good idea and one that is not an invention in search of a solution.

I also said in my above post that many burns--the most serious ones-- happen when straining the deep fryer.  Oil can only be strained when its hot, and N. American mnfctrs never give this second thought.  I don't mean the plumbed-in automatic filtering units that big places hook up permanently to a bank of fryers, I mean the individual fryers.  What have we got to strain a fryer?  A ball  valve three feet off the ground and a 12" length of pipe you can screw on to the valve?  So you can put a leaky pot on the floor and stick a crappy china cap and filter on top of it?  Seriously has this never been adressed?   Almost thirty years ago I working with European fryers that addressed this problem very simply and elegantly.

Mixers, the 20 qt and up variety.  Get anything caught in the shaft while its running and you're toast, even on 1st gear.  Apron strings, torchons, and hair are the usual suspects.  One woman lost her hand here in Vancouver becasue whe was wearing a bracelet and had the habit of sticking her hands in the bowl while it was running to pull out a piece of dough to see if it passed the window pane test.  Yes it's stupid, but the woman lost her hand.  All new mixers now have a safety cage, so you can't do this, not a bad idea, and not much of an inconvienience.

We all know the feeling of pain when we touch something hot, and do our best not to repeat that same mistake.  While those in the U.S. are familiar with lawsuits, many of us employers  around the world are not fighting lawyers, but gov't run worker's comp boards.  Some of the one's I experienced in europe as just as bad, if not worse than the one we have here in Vancouver.  Once an employer gets fined for not documenting training an employee to properly clean a meat slicer, that painful association will make him do all sorts of crazy things, including making his employees wear shark gloves all the time.  Can you really blame the employer? 

If it's intelligent, do it.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Well Kristine will either change her thesis or go forward. Knowing that in her first phase of the human centered design, the subjects she will be dealing with are a bit egotistical and a little

opinionated. Just remember that the Professional Chefs can be a little pompous and not to inspiring. If your design will work in a professional setting and can be scaled for the home cook you will have a winner. Believe it or not, there was good sucess with those pliable cutting mats and ceramic knives./img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif


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## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

Never mind.


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## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

One thing that just occurred to me:

The most common burns I have given myself over the years (aside from oil splatter, bumping hot pans, the everyday stuff) comes from industry standard spring loaded tongs.

The "gutter" on the inside of the tongs can act like a funnel for hot liquids that spill out through the open end at the "pinch."   I have been caught several times with this one. This could be something a design element to mitigate.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

@AllanMcPherson,

I'm sure there are plenty of tongs out there with round handles. This past Sunday I finished my last blacksmithing tool. I have made at least a dozen forge tongs for myself.

I'm twisting a bar grouping for a railing next. Now I'm thinking about these tongs. I think I can achieve a spring back with a basic curve. The handles will be just round bar. I will have to do the ends first, then maybe flatten a section of the middle for the spring curve and harden. I'm thinking when I used to be on the hot side I always thought some type of perforated ends would be good.





  








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Nov 12, 2015








sorry, bad pics, but fish type slice or perforated ends. Maybe a ball on the ends so they won't slip out of your hands. What do you think. Is this worth trying? The handles maybe 5/16" X 12". The ends, similar size as normal ones and cupped a little in a swage block spoon. Who knows,

if they work and look good we can prototype from lightweight heat resistant material.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

ah, I googled heat resistant tongs. There are already a bunch out there. I did not see round handled ones, but I'm sure they are out there.

I just know from smithing that the round handles are very easy to maneuver.


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## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)

Disclaimer: I’ve made my living with design. Professionally, not just someone with a shop in their garage. 

I agree. Commercial kitchens as well as home kitchens should benefit from innovation. But it would be naive to think every product designed is worthy of creation. All I have to say is “disposable flashlights,” or point to the myriad of products sold on TV that are a waste of materials and energy. A sleeve that changes colors does nothing for five or six pans on a stove. They will all be the same color. Hot. In the end, a sleeve might prevent 10% of burns. That, in my opinion, does not solve the problem (sleeves, btw, already exist, yes?). Maybe we should focus on changing the fact that line cooks are underpaid and work in a system that celebrates stress and pressure in a dangerous environment.

No new product should be a liability in efficiency.  Shark gloves and pot handle sleeves a liability. Corporate penny pinchers are hired and paid to reduce financial waste. Getting sued because someone cut themselves is waste. Slowing down a line or prep cook is a sacrifice they are willing to make. Then the blame goes to the underpaid, overworked cook when efficiency gets compromised. 

I did suggest, by the way, to scrap the sleeve and go with a heat sensitive handle instead. I think it would have more of an impact with home kitchens, but does little to solve the problem of line cooks grabbing a hot pan on a stove because they "forgot." Pliable cutting mats are good for the handicapped or elderly, but create plastic waste. What problem does it solve? Ceramic knives were developed to reduce sharpening, but what happens to them once they've exceeded their useful lifetime? You cannot sharpen them again. Steel can be recycled. Lets not confuse convenience with solving a real problem. 

A cage over a mixer makes a ton of sense, but you cannot design stupidity out of humans.


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## markrmoore2 (Nov 15, 2015)

Make a towel tough as leather, with good wet or dry gripping material, blockout heat like welding gloves and easily cleanable. Maybe you should look into kevlar for this idea. Ill be happy to test out your products


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## markrmoore2 (Nov 15, 2015)

And as far as grip goes, you should have enough hand strength to handle anything with a towel if you work in a kitchen


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## jake t buds (May 27, 2013)




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