# What are your current and ideal (wish list) kits?



## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

These threads are always interesting.

(Please exercise some degree of editing when it comes to the wish list by keeping it down to no more than a couple of dozen knives.)

*CURRENT KIT*

_I've got a few others here and there, __but these are the knives in the block on the counter and most frequently used blades on the less frequently moved bar_

12" K-Sabatier au carbone chef's knife -- Used as a chef de chef for solving big problems. It came from Amazon in the late nineties. Although sold under a different name, it's truly a K-Sab.
10" K-Sab au carbone chef's knife -- My go to gyuto. Had it forever, 35 years maybe. Suits me darn near perfectly. Linda loves it too. She and I have been together for about 6 years; but I'm given to understand that it's her knife.
10" K-Sab au carbone slicer -- Great knife. What more can you say?
9" Henckles bread knife -- Had it for more than thirty years, almost as long as the 10" K-Sabs. Can't remember the last time I sharpened it -- years probably. It soldiers on without urgency for replacement.
7" Nogent chef's -- I got this a few years ago from The Best Things. It's my shallot and small fish specialist. There's not really enough call for it to justify a slot in the block (as opposed to the less conveniently placed bar), but I like it enough to invent uses.
7" Forschner Rosewood flexible fillet -- Doesn't get used at all for filleting, and not too much for actual food prep, it sees a motley assortment of utility purposes: Cheese, pies, cakes, opening packages, cutting string, you name it. Takes a great edge (for a Forschner) very quickly, loses it just as fast. Way too useful to ever get rid of.
6" Nogent petty -- Bought it at the same time as the little chef's. TBT calls it a 6" slicer, but at 6" what are you going to slice? Pistachios? This knife gets used a lot, a lot, a lot. The Nogents are wonderful pieces of history, wonderful knives, wonderful bargains. If you've got questions about them, ask me. Ask Buzz too, if you can find him.
6" Chicago Cutlery carbon meat cleaver -- I bought it in the mid seventies when I hit the "boucher" station at the Blue Fox from a guy who'd had it "forever," but had never used it. At a guess, it was forged in the sixties -- a time when Chicago Cutlery made good knives for pro butchers. Actually I almost never use it, preferring the big Sab for hack jobs. But it looks quite thuggish on the bar.
5-1/2" Thiers Issard ****Elephant carbon _desosseur_ (Euro-profile boning knife) -- Gee, it's got a long name. As desosseurs go, this is among the best -- if not the best -- in terms of the entire sets of sharpening and ergonomic issues. When discussing any _desosseur_ or _desosseurs_ generally, it must be said though that as a class, in a few important ways, they're problem knives; on top of that most people don't have a clue as to when and how to use them. And that goes double for Japanese honesuke and garasuke.
3-1/2" TI ****Elephant carbon German profile paring knife -- Even longer name for a shorter knife. This was actually a prototype for a line which was never produced. Amazon sent it to me as a way of apologizing for the delayed shipment of some other knife. It took forever for me to track its history down. TI is not good about answering email written in English. This knife is on the bar and not the block. I use the 6" Nogent and Linda uses the ...
2-3/4" Forschner Rosewood sheeps foot parer -- she likes it, I sharpen it. Actually I do use it for opening plastic packages which need a straight cut -- smoked salmon, for instance.
2" K-Sab au carbone "Wharfendale" parer -- Well, it used to be 3-1/2" and it used to be a regular parer (_couteau office_, in French). It's a very old, small knife that's been reprofiled because of a lot of sharpening and a couple of tip repairs.
K-Sab 2-1/2" au carbone bird's beak parer -- When you postively, absolutely, no getting out of it, must tourne. The shape is a massive PITA to sharpen. One of these days -- sooner rather than later -- I'm going to replace all of these with a "Nogent" parer.

*WISH LIST*

_Depending on how you look at it, I've actually got two or three wish lists, if I ever do pull the trigger I'll make up my mind then._

List 1 (western aka "yo" handles):

Ikkanshi Tadatsuna (IKT) custom, left-handed, shiroko yanagi
Masamoto HC 300mm suji
Masamoto HC 270mm gyuto
MAC 10.5" bread
Masamoto HC 240mm western deba
Masamoto HC 210mm gyuto -- A 270mm verges on being too long for some things, while even a 6" petty can be too small. I want at least one knife at this length although I'm ambivalent over whether it should be a suji or a gyuto. Since this is the HC list, and Masamoto doesn't make a 21cm HC suji... well, here you go.
Masamoto CT 165 Hankotsu -- CT because Masamoto doesn't make an HC hankotsu. A hankotsu over a garasuke or honesuke because they're pretty much unavailable in left-handed geometry. But more, because I actually know how to use them, what they're used for, and have little to no use for either.
Masamoto HC 150mm petty
Nogent 2-3/4" parer -- Blade quality is not quite up to HC standards, but it's one of the few small knives with a usably sized handle. Kind of amazing considering how often you want to fist a paring knife and move the food to the blade, rather than the other way 'round.
K-Sab au carbone tourne
List 2 (mostly Japanese, aka wa handles)
IKT custom, left-handed, shiroko yanagi
IKT shiroko 300mm wa-suji
IKT 270mm shiroko wa-gyuto
MAC 10.5" bread
IKT 240mm shiroko wa-yo-deba
IKT 210mm shiroko wa-suji
IKT 150mm petty
Nogent 2-3/4" parer -- Blade quality is not quite up to HC standards, but it's one of the few small knives with a usably sized handle. Kind of amazing considering how often you want to fist a paring knife and move the food to the blade, rather than the other way 'round.
K-Sab au carbone tourne
List 3:

Same as above except substituting IKT's Inox (G3) knives for all the other IKTs -- yanagi excepted which doesn't come as an Inox and doesn't need to. When it comes to G3, on the one hand you gain a fair bit of convenience for a minisclue drop in edge taking and smaller still for edge holding qualities. On the other, I've been caring for carbon for so long it's so much second nature that it's hard to think of it as much of an issue at all. On the third hand (what? you don't have one?), it might be fun to try something new for a change. March boldly into the stainless steel era and all that.
Yours?

BDL


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## the tourist (Jul 21, 2009)

Wow, BDL, well thought out and quite demanding for superior execution! In that regard I feel like I'm opening a quaint lemonade stand...

For me, a *nakiri* comes and goes. I find a good one, I polish it, and within a few weeks a client snags it. My wife doesn't really want something so thin that it requires a proper cutting board and the monkey motion of switching knife styles. I'd love a good Hattori nakiri, but I'd also like to flap my arms and fly to the moon.

For reality, I believe a *boning knife* would be more proper. I'm leaning towards the honesuki design. I don't even like the slight re-curve shape of some pocketknives or fish filet knives, even if they were easier to sharpen. We all know the phrase, "Let the tool do the work." And I believe the long shallow belly of the honesuki design will permit a longer 'slicing stroke' for the user.

And last, I would like to find a *portable steak knife*. The knives they provide you in restaurants are simply junk. I have purchased a number of reasonably sized knives suitable for slicing meat and potatoes (meaning the skins on a baked potato) plus some form of discrete carrying case (preferably plastic for washing). All were upgrades, none really tripped my trigger.

So as you can see, my wish list is modest, but if I had these toys my life would be happier and easier.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

My wish list is simple. I want one of every thing from every manufacture so I can tinker away until the cows come home.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

That's cheating. It does not rate a . The real questions are, "what do you have now?" And, "what would you actually buy (with your own money?)"

For the sake of argument, we can assume a large but semi-sane budget. Say, $3K max for knives -- not including a sharpening kit. No bonus points for maxxing it or going well below the limit. (Any of my dream kits would could be had for well under $2K, retail.) And if there are a few super expensive, budget busting knives which you would buy if there was any way you could afford them -- say which and say why. 

Your thought processes and the stories you have about your knives are more interesting than your unlimited greed. We've all got that. 

BDL


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Speaking of sharpening kits...

_Current_:
Norton IB-8 combination (8 x 2 combination of coarse and fine India).
Hall's soft Arkansas (8 x 2)
Hall's surgical black Arkansas (8 x 2)
Hand American 12" borosilicate glass rod
Henckels (old and worn down) fine steel
Wish List:

As long as I sharpen tough steel, I'll never give up my Nortons or Arkansas stones. As long as I own anything that can be steeled, even if only to deburr, I'll hold on to both steels as well. As to the steels specifically, the Hand American is simply as good as it gets. Very expensive, and worth every cent.

Also, none of the stones on my wish list are so expensive that I couldn't afford any or all of them tomorrow. So holding off on them for now is not about expense, or at least not mainly. Given my current knife kit, I just don't need them. My current sharpening set is more than adequate to get very sharp edges and maintain them. 
Naniwa Omura 180#
Beston 500#
Bester 1200#
Nonpareil Aoto -- you could go directly to the Arashiyama from the Bester #1200, but an intermediate makes it a little easier. However, an aoto is a great "touch up" stone and a good final stone for blades which do rough work like red meat.
Arashiyama 7000# -- This is as high as much polish as I'd give almost any knife. The exception being something like a aogami super yani.
Kitayama 8000# -- Most people list as a 12,000, but it's actually an 8,000#. It just polishes like a 12,000, that is if you like mist as opposed to mirror. The good thing is that it's an exceptional finish. The bad, is that the knife must be well polished before going to the Kitayama or the stone is a time waster. I probably wouldn't actually buy it, it's not that much of an improvement over the Arashiyama. But since this is a wish list: What the hey?
Hand American sharpening kit -- I really like the felt pad for deburring. If were going to do heavy-duty polishing I'd also want a few leather pads and the 1/2u and 1/4u diamond sprays.
Flattening kit: Drywall screen on a boxed, granite or glass float.
BDL


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## six30nine (Sep 19, 2009)

Have you seen Shun's folding steak knife?
ChefTools | Shun Higo Nokami Personal Steak Knife

an Opinel might work
Opinel Knives - Knifecenter.com
They're sheeple friendly, and the carbon steel blades take a nice edge.

Either might fit in a cigar tube for transport
Cigar Tubes


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

Uhm no. I failed my psychic hot line exam. Sorry dude, read your own OP-there were no caveats.
I'm sticking with my greed and the  !


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## the tourist (Jul 21, 2009)

Wow, that's more like it! It looks like I have some research to do! Thanks!


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

OK all kidding aside I can not put together a "dream" kit for 3k. If I'm buying the stuff dreams are made of 3k might not be enough for one blade. I can put together a VERY, VERY nice working kit for for under 3k. I'm not going to list every thing I own for two reasons. One it seems irrelevant because if I had a "mulligan" on buying my box all over again I would make different choices if for no reason other than to have new experiences. Secondly I suck as a typist and that would take me way too long.
So here goes;

Wusthof 10" Wide Heavy Chef's knife-Classic
Wusthof 8" Chefs knife-Classic
Suisin Honyaki WA Gyuto - 270mm
Suisin Gin Ryu Momizi
Masamoto KS Yanagi-300mm
Wusthof stiff boning knife-classic
Forschner Scimitar
Guede Bread Knife
F. Dick Garde manger set
Ikkanshi Tadatsuna carving knife
Hattori JCK pairing knife
Hitomoto AS utility 150mm
Hattori JCK Cleaver


That's pretty much right at 3k including one Suisin special order. As an aside if I could pick one knife to have that really falls in the "dream" realm I would really like to have a Suisin maguro knife. I could easilly add another 2k on a working dream kit. I could also cut 3k in half with out all the high end choices but who wants to make compromises when we are talking about a dream kit.


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

I have no wish list just at the moment. My current ownership, not including total trash:

Unnamed very fancy blue-steel 300mm yanagiba
Masamoto 270mm KS carbon gyuto
Aritsugu Kyoto black 210mm deba
OEM Takayuki low-grade 195mm usuba
small private-maker 195mm yanagiba
unidentified (probably from Shikoku) 165mm deba
Aritsugu Kyoto stainless-clad 120mm petty
Wusthof Trident 6" chef's
Wusthof Trident boning
Wusthof Trident paring
Dexter Russell Chinese cleaver
unknown awful bread knife

pink stone-flattener
220 green carbide, deeply dished
400 Chocera
800 Chocera
800 King
800 natural with major fault-line
1000 King
2000 Chocera
~6000 synthetic Arashiyama
10k SuperStone
unknown very high-grit natural finishing/polishing stone

Not sure I really want anything else for the moment, heresy though that might be.


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## missyjean (Nov 5, 2009)

I'm doing research and trying to come up with which wisk to get. 

I have a Le Cruset silicone balloon wisk but want a metal one too

I am also doing research on which loaf pan to buy to replace my Baker's Secret. I heard Chicago Metallic is the way to go but I'm not sure about the glazed or unglazed


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Whisk terms can be a little indefinite. So let's at least nail down what I'm going to talk about, before getting into recommendations.

The basic shapes are balloon, pear and flat.

The tines on a balloon whisk form a globular or almost globular shape. The purpose of a balloon whisk is to beat air into things like egg whites or cream, in order lighten them. They're almost always made with very thin tines; because thin best accomplishes the purpose.

Pear shaped whisks come in two flavors -- "regular" with thin tines; and "French" with heavy, or "piano wire" tines. The regular whisk is used extensively for sauce making or for any mixing task as long as the mixture is not too stiff. A French whisk can power through thick batters, soften butter and cheeses; almost no job is too tough. French whisks can do any regular whisk task, but not _vice versa_.

French whisks are not a common part of most home cooks' _baterie d'cuisine_, but pros use them heap much plenty. Similarly, not every store carries French whisks, but they aren't exactly impossible to find either; for instance, you can find them at Sur La Table, Williams Sonoma, Amazon, etc., not to mention pro suppliers.

Flat whisks are typically used for very light mixing where the cook doesn't want much air -- eggs for instance; and/or where the cook wants to make sure the whisk gets in the seam between wall and pot bottom.

I see them in stores but, other than protecting non-stick surfaces, can't see what purposes silicone tines serve. Perhaps they're less breakable or more dishwasher safe or something?

It's obvious when it's said, but not so obvious when you haven't had years of experience. Buy whisks in sizes which fit the pots and bowls you use for things you whisk.

Most people don't need mini-balloon whisks, or flat whisks at all. On the other hand, it's nice to have a small regular whisk for beating a couple of eggs in a soup bowl. But, since you're not going to have every whisk in every size, you'll need to do some editing.

A good collection of whisks for most home cooks might be a largish ballon whisk, a similarly sized French whisk, and a smallish regular whisk. If you're like me, anything else is if you like or as you need it. But, you're a lot more like you than me. So I think about which bowls and pots you actually use and buy accordingly.

Small tools make a difference in how much you enjoy and how effective you are in prep. You don't have to break the bank, but it's worth getting good ones.

Rule No. 1: With your larger whisks, make sure you get a handle which fits your hand. The super thin wire wrapped handles are useless. I dont care how dainty your delicate little hand is, it will be totally fatigued by trying to hold and control the whisk before getting much done. OXO makes a great handle for smaller whisks. I don't believe they make a

Rule No 2: If you're buying in person as opposed to shopping online, make sure the wires are deeply and strongly embedded in the handle.

BDL


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

I guess right now I'm most anxious for Mark @ CKtG to get in the next shippment of Ichimonji TKCs in 240mm. I'd still love to get an Ironwood Tanaka in R2. Maybe a few more stones, too...


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## missyjean (Nov 5, 2009)

That is such excellent advice, thank you so much!

I live in a rural area. In "town" is a gourmet kitchen store. They carry Rosel (very hefty price) or Cuispro. 

Based on your reply, I feel a French whisk is my best bet for starters. I'll ask if they carry that. If I have to shop online, can you tell me which brand to try?

Thank you BDL


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

I've seen about a half dozen of those for sale from the last batch. You could always pick up a used one but you may want to talk to some of the guys via PM who are selling them. It's probably a bit more cost effective to oder direct from Ichi, just use the Google translate page.


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

I've had several chances to snag a barely-used one, but I'm not in a rush. Ordering direct is a dicey thing if you don't speak Japanese, as I'm sure you know if you've read the posts of those who've went that route. There's a reason why small mfg'rs are under the radar in the US; communication can be an issue.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

I don't speak a word of Japanese and so far I have had great results ordering direct from Japan. Just a friendly FYI if your trying to save a few bucks. 
All of those I have spoken with in Japan have been very helpful.


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

BDL - totally off topic, but going by the first post on here, and please, take no offense, it's meant in all good humour, but I think you may be related to _Sweeney Todd_ :lol:

Your knife wish list is astounding.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Maybe by previous marriage.

BDL


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

Can I ask who you've dealt with? Companies, I mean? This question seems to come up a lot -- who you can deal with in Japan that will have a clue about English -- so your experience would be very valuable here.


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

Yeah, sometimes it's easy and sometimes it's comical...guess it depends on who you deal with. I think Koki is pretty easy to communicate with but some of the higher-zoot makers don't speak any English at all. In any event I could get my Ichi direct but since I'm not in a huge rush, and I know for a fact Mark has some on order, I'll probably just wait. I've blown enough money in the last week already!


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

Yeah Koki is top notch to talk to. Hideki at Ikkanshi has been very good but I'll hold off on that recommendation until my second order gets here. Tatsuya at Suisin has English that is a bit less fluent than Hideki or Koki but he is very friendly (they all are) and eager to help. Tatsuya is dangerous though. He will have Suisin make just about any thing you can dream up. I just wish you could order direct from Suisin instead of dealing with Korin.
On edit; As I was posting I received my EMS shipping confirmation from Hideki. I'll update when my order arrives.


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

Ah, the "Dream Craft"...yes, that could be hazardous to your bank account!:beer:


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

I really like the Suisin knives. They have a WA So-momizi that has been teasing my CC! :lol: Did you join the Suisin club P?


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

The first Ikkanshi is a 120 mm petty. With out question the sharpest knife I have ever seen OOB. I never thought I could like a petty so much. F&F is as close to perfect as it gets.
I should have a few more by early next week.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

I received two more Ikkanshi's today. A gyuto and a Suji. F&F is just as perfect as the petty. I see no reason not to order direct. All went very fast and smooth.


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## dantheman (Feb 13, 2010)

I've become more and more enamored with cooking over the last few years and just this week began purchasing items of quality (as far as I can tell). My new knives should be showing up tomorrow. I ordered Shun Classic 8" Hollow Ground Chef's Knife, Shun Classic 6" Chef's Knife and a Shun Classic 4" Paring Knife.

One thing I noticed breezing through this thread is that no one put Shun on their wish list. Is there any reason? Did I make a huge mistake paying $300 for these knives?

Dan


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Shun is a very touchy subject among people who are serious about knives. The Shun Classic chef's knives especially are not well liked. 

There are issues with all of the western profile Shun involoving the Damascus patterned cladding; and it's fair to say that with the exception of a few of the smaller profiles, there are better knives for the same or less money. 

In terms of the chef's knife -- quite a few people don't like the profile geometry. There's too much arc to the edge and belly -- something like an extreme German profile -- which requires too much slicing and handle lift action during chopping to cut all the way through and avoid "accordion" cuts. Also, the point is too high causing some weird hand positions for common tasks like cutting onions, scoring fish, etc. 

If you look back a few years at the knife advice threads on Chef Talk, not only will you not see Shun on very many "ultimate wish lists," you'll mostly see newbies talked out of it when they ask for help choosing their first, high-quality knife.

On the other hand, a lot of very good knife technicians love them. Many people find their handles comfortable, the fit and finish is excellent, and they are well supported in the United States. 

Your choices are not my choices, nor is it a kit I'd likely recommend for anyone. Wrong brand, wrong lengths, wrong profiles, and "hollow ground" (?!). However, it's easy to lose sight of the forest while examining leaf mitochondria. Shun Classic are certainly very good knives in the greater scheme of things -- as long as you keep them sharp -- and I hope you enjoy them for many years.

In any case, the real issue with new knives is always how sharp you can get and keep them. That's more about you than about the knives.

BDL


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## dantheman (Feb 13, 2010)

Thanks BDL, I just purchased a bunch of All Clad Copper Core and LTD-2 and Shun products this week (progressing from Calphalon and Cuisinart Knives). I'm starting to feel like a Jack-Ask groupie with misguided intentions. However, with my limited experience and skill, I am quite hopeful I will enjoy these items. I have been using my All Clad for a few days and I'm having fun.

What I like most about this forum is hearing from people who not only live and love cooking, but have decades of experience and knowledge. Thanks again.

BTW, I plan on sending my Shun blades in for annual sharpening to the factory. It will be better than the sharpening job I do on my Cuisinart Chefs Knife with my $8 hand held V-Sharpener I picked up at BB&B. That's right chefs, wince!


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## celticroo (Feb 18, 2010)

BDL - 

I've been reading your posts (older and more current) for the past several weeks.  I've finally begun the search to have "real" knives, and of all the input of the more experienced cooks/chefs I've found online, yours has typically been level-headed, straightforward, matter-of-fact.  No real left- or right-winged, rabid mentality.  Some sentimentality.  ;0)  Very informative posts.

So, I'm curious about your "have" list and your "wish" list.  I'm making the switch from junk to HC and am looking for some subtle differences, subjective though they may be.  In your Sab list of au carbone vs Nogent, why did you choose one versus the other and overall would you recommend either for any reason?

And, why has your wish list moved from Sab to Masamoto?

Thanks for further input!

CelticRoo


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Hi Celtic,

Thanks for the nice words.

I already had most of my Sabatiers -- actually seperate, core sets of K-Sab au carbone and "Canadian" -- before the Nogents became available. I'm very happy with my current motley collection.

There are a lot of technical points that make good Sabatiers so good like handles, edge characteristics, profile, lightness, thinness, and so on -- but it's really a gestalt where the sum is so much greater than the parts. I don't know how to describe it other than to say the knives feel so willing.

It's easy to point out what other knives do well, but Masamotos are a little different. Their best point isn't one thing they do particularly well, but that they do absolutely nothing wrong. A lot like a good Sabatier, _comme il faut_.

But, the HC is made from a really special alloy and has better edge characteristics than any Sabatier. Ergo ... wish list.

Over the past year or so, a big caveat arose with the Masamoto HC. That's poorly fitted handle scales and (perhaps) some other F&F issues. If you're buying online, it's important for you to let your e-tailer know in writing (e-mail is fine) that you're _relying_ on him or her to select a suitable knife.

Hope this helps,
BDL


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

I can cross off a couple from my wish list now.  Mark came thru with my Ichimonji TKC 240mm Gyuto, and although it hasn't seen much action yet I think it may bump my Akifusa from the top spot it's enjoyed in my kit.  The Ichi is wonderful- a tad taller at the heel than the Ikeda, and it's incredibly thin!  Far thinner than any other gyuto I own.  I should add that the fit 'n' finish of this particular specimen is absolutely immaculate.  If I told people it cost $400 instead of $200 I doubt most would bat an eye.

I also just got my first Hiromoto AS, a 270mm gyuto from a fellow at another forum.  What a wonderful knife- it easily lives up to all the hype.  Nice thing about buying used, aside from saving some cash, is that it already has a beautiful patina...and a great edge.  The previous owner thinned it a tad and the overall geometry is great.

What's on the wish list now?  Well, some guys at KF are getting a Nenox group buy together- gotta say an S1 would be awesome.  I'd also love an Aritsugu A gyuto and/or sujihiki.  While I'm dreaming, how about a Devin Thomas custom gyuto or nakiri?

My next actual purchase, though, will probably be some re-handles of a few of my favorite knives.  I'm sending a Tojiro to a custom maker my Dad told me about to see what kind of work he does.  If it comes out as well as I hope/expect he'll be getting a few more to do.


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