# Chef's Knife Recommendations For a Hobby Chef



## Mike Weathers (Oct 11, 2017)

Hi there,

I'm a long-term lurker on the forums, but I finally registered to ask for some advice on which direction I should head when purchasing a knife. I'm finally back in the market for a Japanese knife, and I'm pulling my hair out pouring through the advice that you've all given to many over the years. All of my experience with Japanese knives have come through Shun and Miyabi. I had a full set of Shun Classics that have lasted me for the last decade, but they've finally been sharpened enough that they can't hold the thinner edge to which I've become so accustomed.

I'm hoping to pick up a new, utilitarian knife that can handle doing most prep jobs in the kitchen; I spend a fair amount of time chopping greens, root vegatable, etc, but also red meat and chicken. We eat very little fish. I purchased the Shun Dual-Core Kiritsuke earlier this year, and I've come to learn that, even after adjusting my technique for the shape of the blade, I just can't use it effectively. I'd like to sell it and purchase something different. I'm thinking to go the way of a gyuutou instead, with hope that the blade shape will fit my technique a bit better without [as much of] the frustration of learning to use a new knife. I'm willing to spend up to about $300 for a new knife, but I'm hoping to branch out into the larger knife world and away from Shun (after reading through your many aspersions on the brand through the years). I don't have a means of sharpening a knife myself, but I'd love to learn if it means I can procure and maintain a great knife that will last through the years.

Apologies for the long-winded post. It seemed like it was easier for you to help in earlier forums with extra information. Please help!


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

What about the shun kiritsuke shape specifically? I recall it is pretty flat already? What is your ideal shape?


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## Mike Weathers (Oct 11, 2017)

I prefer it to be a bit more rounded. I learned my cutting techniques with a western-style chef's knife, and I'm a bit clunky with the flat blade of the kiritsuke (I expected to have less difficulty since I've spent a fair amount of time using a nakiri knife, but it just didn't translate). The gyuutou should be right on the money for me. I've never owned a blade longer than an 8", but I was considering going for the 240mm gyuutou. I know very little about the differences in metal types and different brands, hence my post here.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

First thing to understand then is technique. The big-bellied German knife that you call "western," and which typifies the Shun Classic profile, was the result of a marketing scheme. Up until the early 1900's all chef knives where fairly flat profiled and ground thin, which allowed ease of rapid chopping and push-cutting. Germans got the "brilliant" idea to put in a big belly, high tip and thick blade, right to the edge. The big belly meant you could sharpen the knife a whole lot without having to concern yourself with the full bolster (another sorry innovation and story) and creating concavity. A thick blade requires less straightening in the heat-treat process and a thick edge requires less grinding, cost saving measures. And so instead of lifting this heavy knife entirely off the board and futiley trying to get that thick edge to fall through something in a rapid chopping/short-push motion, as is most efficient, the big belly and high tip was use for rock-chopping, a slower/less efficient process. Eventually the tips got too high even, as if more was better.

So what it comes down to is that a light flat-edged blade works better than the heavy-thick belly-boys, but you have to learn to use it differently. That being said, a conventional gyuto with a good flat and a bit more round at the tip is going to be more versatile compared to the kiritsuki.


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## Pat Pat (Sep 26, 2017)

If you couldn't sharpen the knives yourself, who has been doing it for you? A decade is not long enough to sharpen the Shun's so high up that you can't get a thin edge. Whoever did the sharpening for you must have been very brutal with them knives.


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## Mike Weathers (Oct 11, 2017)

I know the technique is different, and I'll likely keep the kiritsuke as a slicing knife for the time being (after I send it back to Shun for sharpening). I've always had mine sharpened by Shun, rather than locally, since I assumed they'd have a better idea of what they expect from their knives. After the last time I sent them for sharpening, they advised that the blades could no longer be sharpened to the 16 degree angle, but had to be taken to 20-22 degrees because of the number of times they'd been sharpened.

I'm fairly confident that a gyuutou would suit my needs well, I'm just curious_ which _gyuutou you'd all recommend given my background and intended use. I'd seen the Itinomonn gyuutou recommended a number of times historically through the threads on the subject, as well as a Masamoto KS.The Itinomonn seems to have changed relatively recently with fewer favorable reactions, and I thought I'd reach out to the community for advice rather than pull the trigger on something that I wouldn't be happy with (as happened with the Shun Dual Core Kiritsuke).

To sum up my question succinctly: given all of the earlier experiences, what might you recommend in the way of a gyuutou?


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## Mike Weathers (Oct 11, 2017)

I'd like to think that aesthetic isn't that important to me, but I saw this one and about bought it on the spot after reading a few reviews online and seeing the look of it.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kowh2gy24.html


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Your sharpener has been taking off a lot of metal with power tools and has no idea how to thin a knife or the basics of sharpening. This describes too many professionals.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

More than a few have complained about the Shun sharpeners taking off way too much metal, like ridiculous too much. Consider the service a gaff.

Geshin Gonbei hammered, great knife, great steel, and has the bling too. The 210 is currently sold out but they have the 240. You don't have to spend $300 on a knife, maybe get some stones and learn to sharpen, it's not hard to do at least as good as Shun's service:
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...ducts/gonbei-240mm-hammered-damascus-wa-gyuto


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## Pat Pat (Sep 26, 2017)

It makes sense now that you said Shun did all the sharpening. They're just trying to systematically destroy your knives so they can sell you new ones! Sneaky little bastards they are.



Mike Weathers said:


> I'd like to think that aesthetic isn't that important to me, but I saw this one and about bought it on the spot after reading a few reviews online and seeing the look of it.


If you're just a hobby chef and almost didn't think twice before buying a knife that expensive, I don't think you'll have to worry much about which knife to get. Just choose the shape, the size, and the look that you like the most. Most of the knives in that price range are all good anyway. I have quite a few knives and I can't say that I like one more than the other. They're all great to me in their own ways.


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## Mike Weathers (Oct 11, 2017)

I had no idea that using Kai to sharpen the knives was a problem, but it makes perfect sense now that you've explained it. Sharpening a double-bevel sounded rather intimidating, hence my using the service. Is the learning curve for sharpening easier with white vs. blue steel? I'll go to YouTube University and learn to do it myself with my next knife, but it seems to make sense that I should buy something a tad less expensive to learn with.

I really appreciate the recommendation for the Gonbei. I had never even heard of the brand, and that's exactly what I was hoping to garner from the community. I knew there had to be better options that Shun knives for that price range. I admit that I'm not scared off by the price of a $300 knife, as long as the product is high quality. I just look at it as $32 a year for daily hours of entertainment!


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## Mike Weathers (Oct 11, 2017)

One thing I neglected to mention earlier is that I'm right-handed, so I don't have any particular need for an ambidextrous knife. My wife doesn't often use the higher-end knives we own, but she's a righty as well.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Pat Pat said:


> It makes sense now that you said Shun did all the sharpening. They're just trying to systematically destroy your knives so they can sell you new ones! Sneaky little bastards they are.


Q: Is your tongue in your cheek?

I've read of "problems" with Kai/Shun sharpening but it most often seems to be when there is a problem with the blade, like chips or inappropriate sharpening that is then sent to a pro for correction. I sent a chipped and tip-bent in for repair (not Kai/Shun but the shop they used when they weren't doing the sharpening themselves) and they did remove a noticeable amount of metal, but it seemed quite appropriate for the repair required. But never used them for a "normal sharpening".

Like you, I have too many knives and I like them all... sometimes for different reasons and few/none would be considered a one-knife-does-it-all knife.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Well the truth is often said in gest, whether intentional or not. And the edge on these shuns does start out rather thick to begin with, much thicker than any knife pretending to be Japanese anyways. Just out of curiousity Mike, about how many times was this knife sent to shun for sharpening, and did it ever have any significant damage?

To address the righty/lefty issue, it does make a some difference on double-bevelled knives that have asymmetrical profiles across the entire faces, but lefty´s often use them anyways with little complaint.

As far as spending more on a knife, it wouldn´t make sense here unless you wanted high-wear PM steel, an unusual steel, a particular look, and/or a ¨"very" thin edge and otherwise specific kind of grind.

You can still get real nice lasers for under $200, for 210´s anyways, but if you really want to persue this could you otherwise be more specific here?


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## Mike Weathers (Oct 11, 2017)

rick alan said:


> Well the truth is often said in gest, whether intentional or not. And the edge on these shuns does start out rather thick to begin with, much thicker than any knife pretending to be Japanese anyways. Just out of curiousity Mike, about how many times was this knife sent to shun for sharpening, and did it ever have any significant damage?
> 
> To address the righty/lefty issue, it does make a some difference on double-bevelled knives that have asymmetrical profiles across the entire faces, but lefty´s often use them anyways with little complaint.
> 
> ...


They were sent for sharpening maybe as many as 6-7 times for some, and as few as twice for others (my steak knives that see substantially lower usage). There was at least one time where there were a number of visible nicks in the blade, though not so bad that it would merit taking away *too* much metal. Then again, and by my own admittance, I'm a complete novice when it comes to sharpening. I'm hoping to use my older Shuns to practice so as to take better care of the newest addition to my kitchen collection:

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/moasgy25cu.html

After reading through a substantial number of older posts, it seemed like the AS would be a suitable option for learning and my first entry into a true Japanese knife; I understand it's a bit pricier than some might advise for a person not working in a professional kitchen and without training on sharpening for care and edge retention, but my kitchen is probably the only area of my home in which I don't mind dropping a bit of scratch to enjoy myself. Any advice you can offer for getting the most out of blue steel? I've previously worked primarily with stainless, and I'm really excited to be looking at something different.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Would it be possible, Mike, for you to post a pic of the edge that can't be sharpened properly? I'm really curious what kind of edge erosion 6 or 7 sharpening has yielded for you.

BTW, it is quite possible that home cooks spend more on knives than do most pros.  My philosophy is to spend as much or as little as it takes to satisfy your needS and desires (not anyone else's).


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## Pat Pat (Sep 26, 2017)

brianshaw said:


> BTW, it is quite possible that home cooks spend more on knives than do most pros.  My philosophy is to spend as much or as little as it takes to satisfy your needS and desires (not anyone else's).


This is such a bad philosophy that I regrettably follow. It's what put a hundred knives in my hands and put all my savings in the sellers' hands.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

half dozen or so sharpenings, safe to say Shun did the usual hack job. They can still be thinned, but Shun won´t do that for you.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

I was suffering jet lag first I responded to the shun sharpening. Shun is just full of sh.t saying the knives can´t be sharpened to 16 dgrees, and actually they typically deliver their knives at 20deg+. Just another of many reasons to forget about shun. Poor qpr, lots of marketing bologna, ethical disonence and just plain bull.


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## Mike Weathers (Oct 11, 2017)

Sorry guys, didn't mean to take so long to respond. I'm having some technical difficulties with my phone at the moment, so the photos are a no-go right now. I suspected it was a bit strange when they painted that statement with a broad brush across the board for the many knives I had sent in - basically my entire block. My 8" chef's knife (sharpened 5-6 times), my nakiri (sharpened 5-6 times, though my wife abused this one), my utility and pairing knives (both sharpened 5-6 times), and even my steak knives (sharpened twice as they see little use). I ended up bludgeoning tomatoes when they first came back, and I called to find out why the knives were so different than usual upon receiving them back, and they advised that they'd still be useful but never as sharp.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Yeah... my friend has sharpened his shun hundreds of times. If you do it yourself on waterstones it doesn't take off much metal each time.

Theres some fishy combination of 
-they use a pull through sharpener that can't change the angle
-they used power tools
-too lazy to thin and refinish the knife
-they are lazy
-they're lying to you

Your instinct says you are being taken advantage of and you should trust that.


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## Mike Weathers (Oct 11, 2017)

Welp, I've got a fantastic new Moritaka gyuto on the way as a result of it, so I can't be too mad at them. I'm hoping to pick up learn to sharpen on my own at home, and plan to use the old Shuns to learn. I've been sifting through the forums for advice on getting started sharpening as well, so I may pick up a few stones and make a mess of those knives.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Again, these are outright LIES, just forget about it, they obviously don´t want to give you any more sharpening service. I´ve already had words with the slimeball who runs the show there in their warranty department, they will not budge, and anyways you don´t need them to do any more damage to what´s left of your shuns.

The Moritaka is not a laser but is still just as thin at the edge, from the looks of it. It will have good food release. It´s a wide-bevel grind with big shoulders (hence the good food release), but it should still go through stuff like carrots well enough. Being all carbon it will be easy to sharpen, and to thin when the time comes, but of course you will need to rinse and wipe it promptly, not leave it sitting any length of time with onion, citrus or tamotoe juice, etc, on it.

You´re paying a for that custom handle, it´s a nice handle but performance-wise I´d recommend the stock handle 250 with the KS profile.

How much you want to spend on stones? You can do all right with a 400 grit pink brick and Iminishi 1k/6k combination stone, I believe that´s under $100 bucks at cktg.


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## scott livesey (Jan 25, 2013)

go online and find a sharpening service in your area. make an appointment and go see the person. bring your knives and tell your sad tale. if he or she is any good, they will quote a price somewhere around $1.50 an inch and finish sharpening by hand on a stone.


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## scott livesey (Jan 25, 2013)

for a stone, get an 8" norton coarse crystolon/fine india then diamond 8" in extra fine.


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## Mike Weathers (Oct 11, 2017)

I had thought to use my old Shun knives to sharpen myself, so the stone recommendations are awesome. Thanks! Any online resources that I can access for help on understanding angles and proper technique? Should I seek out a local sharpener and check for classes to do it in person? I figured it's the kind of thing that I'll have to learn by trial and error, hence using my old knives.

On another note, I stained the blade of my new gyuto literally right after it arrived. I used it to make a salad and washed it immediately after, but apparently I should have wiped it clean while cutting as well. LOL.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

It will patina all sorts of colors just be wary of rust.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Jon Broida/japanese knife imports on YouTube. Covers everything you´ll need for now, and then some.


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## galley swiller (May 29, 2013)

Millionsknives is right about patina, and about rust. Patina is Fe3O4 (3 atoms of iron and 4 atoms of oxygen), and is black-grey-brownish in color. It's more stable on the surface of the blade than unoxidized iron/steel. Rust is Fe2O3 (2 atoms of iron and 3 atoms of oxygen), and is reddish-orange in color. It's also permeable to water.

Patina is good, Rust is bad. If rust shows up, IMMEDIATELY scrub it off.

For hand sharpening, there's a new set of "AngleGuides", each of which establishes a precise angle and slips onto the end of a sharpening stone and is held in place with a rubber band. Each set has 11 guides, one for every angle from 10 degrees through 20 degrees. Amazon sells the set for $10.95. chefknivestogo.com sells the set for $6.95. I'm trying to locally find a hardwood stick 3/4" x 3/4" x 16", so I can mount a set and use it as a feeler guide for hand sharpening. (hint: don't allow your wrist to move after setting the angle. Instead, move the arm without moving the wrist. That way, there will be no shifting of the angle of the blade).

GS


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## crlums (Aug 24, 2017)

I would recommend knifeplanet as a good resource that will cover all your basic needs for learning to sharpen. I spent a while watching tons of videos and tutorials. Some are good, others not so much... Jon Broida and Peter Nowlan are two legitimate pros at this that teamed up to make a free start to finish resource on the basics of sharpening. I'm sure there are other good learning resources but this one is both high quality and comprehensive.

https://www.knifeplanet.net/category/sharpening-school/

Your shun's would be great to learn on. They likely need to be thinned though, which is a step beyond just getting a good edge on it. To me that sounds like a fun project though 

I would start with stones first but if you want a knife I absolutely love my tanaka 240 gyuto. I have the blue 2 (carbon steel that can rust). The ginsan is supposedly mostly the same, but in stainless. 
http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-blue-2-nashiji-gyuto-240mm-stainless-clad/ 
http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-ginsan-nashiji-gyuto-240mm-with-ebony-handle/


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## shortcut (Oct 24, 2017)

Perhaps I can piggyback on this request. My trusty 11-year-old MAC chef's knife recently suffered a large blade chip due to some unauthorized cutting of...a piece of wood. (Let's not get into it. I have suffered enough.) It looks like I'll have to lose almost a centimetre of blade to grind the chip out, so I'm going with a new knife and I'll fool around with grinding down the MTH-80 just to see what it's like for practice. 

Not a chef - a home hobbyist who likes to cook. I've got a CCK veg cleaver, a Miyabi 6000 8" chef's knife (admitted overlap with the MAC but I found it for $85 at a store closeout and couldn't resist), a 240mm Sakai Takayuki japanese slicer, a 150mm Sakai Takayuki petty and a 80mm Global paring knife. The gyutos are used daily as expected and usually it was one for my wife, one for me. 

Unfortunately we have a relatively small kitchen work space and chopping area, so I haven't been terribly interested in getting a larger chef's knife than the 210mm Miyabi - I never feel that I need a bigger knife. I was actually considering maybe going even smaller, say a 180mm Misono UX10 gyuto. (I've thought about their santoku for the wife but not confident it's as useful as a 7" chef's.) Or I could re-up with the MAC, which is/was a great knife, but to be honest it was a lot cheaper than $200CDN when I first bought it and I'm kind of struggling to pay the price increase for a knife I've already used for a decade, y'know?

Any thoughts or suggestions? Is a 7" chef's knife a good idea? Should I really just go larger? Any recommendations other than the Misono for under ~$250?


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## scott livesey (Jan 25, 2013)

shortcut said:


> Any thoughts or suggestions? Is a 7" chef's knife a good idea? Should I really just go larger? Any recommendations other than the Misono for under ~$250?


Knife size is one more area where bigger is not always better. I cook for 2 and do almost all cutting with a 4" utility/parer and a 7" cleaver. find a knife that fits well in your hand. I would not buy a knife I could not handle before buying. if you do buy on line, make sure there is a no penalty return policy. lots of places say you can return stuff, then you get a smaller check after being charged a 'restock fee' and processing fees.


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## galley swiller (May 29, 2013)

Ouch! shortcut, with 1 cm chipped out, you are also likely to need to thin the blade considerably. With the MAC MTH-80 being a kullenschliff-ground blade, with MAC's "Superior" steel, you will find a significant amount of work ahead of you, if you choose to re-grind. If I was facing that problem with that knife, I would probably think long and hard about whether I wanted to expend the energy. (and yes, I do have a MAC MTH 80, though I don't use it that much).

One observation I have seen about knife length is that various makers will vary the ratio of the height to length when they change the length. For example, take the old, pre-war carbon steel French Sabatier chef knives. The 20cm knives had a somewhat short height to length ratio (about 18%, if I remember), but the 25cm blades were considerably heftier at about 20% to 25%. The same can be true today. With a santoku at 180mm, you might want to consider if you want a taller blade. Of course, with the santoku, you also get a much flatter blade profile.

GS


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## galley swiller (May 29, 2013)

shortcut, last night I pulled my MAC MTH-80 out of storage and measured the distance from the stock edge to the lower tips of the kullens (the ground-out oval hollows). The lower tips of the kullens measured an average of about 6 mm (0.6 cm) from the edge.

If a chip of 1 cm in height broke off the edge of an MTH-80 and you had to grind off 1 cm, then that will put the new edge about 1/3rd of the way up the kullens. That knife simply would be worthless.

I suspect that whatever chip came off the edge was either significantly smaller than 1 cm high, or that you lost about 1 cm at the tip of your blade.

Can you more accurately describe the size and/or location of the chip? I do realize that looking at the knife will bring up an emotionally painful memory.

GS


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## shortcut (Oct 24, 2017)

Hah - it's right in the middle of the blade. It may not be exactly 1cm "high" but it's probably close, and my rough guesstimate was also that the new edge would likely be up to what I'd call the grantons. I agree that the blade is likely to be ruined. I figured I'd just give it a shot to practice some sharpening techniques and hey, worst case scenario I have a light and deadly Japanese mini-sword in the shed for occasional rope/string cutting.  

Getting back to your comments on blade height at 180mm - were you suggesting that the santoku blade isn't very tall? Or did you mean the gyuto?


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## Mike Weathers (Oct 11, 2017)

If it's worth anything, the Moritaka I just picked up is a lot more comfortable than I expected - I've never previously had a 240mm, and I was admittedly a bit intimidated by the longer blade. I've kind of fallen in love with it, especially with the heavier blade (I tend to prefer the blade-heavy balance). I can't say that I'll find the additional length any more useful over my previous 8" knives, but it's much more comfortable/less unwieldy than I anticipated.


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## galley swiller (May 29, 2013)

At a 180mm length, a santoku will be significantly taller than the same length gyuto. Gyuto's tend to maintain the nominally same proportion of height to length ratio, when the overall length increases or decreases.

Consider many, if not most santoku's being offered as maxing out in length at 180mm. The height of the santoku will not significantly vary until the spine of the knife approaches and dips down to the tip, with the edge being a very flat profile along the length of the blade.

One problem which can occur if you try to sharpen into the kullens is that the exposed pattern of the kullens at an edge can cause havoc with the surface of your sharpening stones. This will especially be true with MAC's "Superior" grade steel, which is harder than the "Original" grade steel. You are also going to need to very, VERY seriously thin the blade, which will likely seriously try your patience and cause others in earshot to wish they were not.

GS


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## shortcut (Oct 24, 2017)

Mike Weathers said:


> If it's worth anything, the Moritaka I just picked up is a lot more comfortable than I expected - I've never previously had a 240mm, and I was admittedly a bit intimidated by the longer blade. I've kind of fallen in love with it, especially with the heavier blade (I tend to prefer the blade-heavy balance). I can't say that I'll find the additional length any more useful over my previous 8" knives, but it's much more comfortable/less unwieldy than I anticipated.


I've heard great things about the Moritaka knives but have also heard that they tend to be less durable and require more TLC than steel. Not sure how's accurate that is but mine tend to get shared around at parties a bit and well used, so I figured something like a Sakai Takayuki Grand Chef or even better, a Misono UX might be an equally good choice.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

I think you're mixed up Shortcut, Moritaka's are steel. You might enjoy a tall petty, such as a Shiro Kamo R2, but it's not exactly a party passaround knife if you know what I mean, The same goes for the nice little knives Scott sells on Etsy under Old Sailor.

A 210 Takamura Migaki does most of my daily prep (fine, thin slicing) along with a Geshin Kagero petty for the small stuff; a 10" Vic Rosewood with a thinned tip for the little serious chopping and dicing to be done; and assorted other knives I reserve for dedicated tasks, just because it pleases me to do so. They all perform very well, regardless of pedigree, because I keep them thin and sharp. It's all about what tickles ya, and knowing what can be done is a part of that.

For a passaround get something like a Kiwi. Nice cheap little knives for which you needn't fret of any damage. I'm the cook around here and the women, along with any guests, are allowed only the cheap steak knives, and they have their choice of serrated or flat. It seems to work just just fine.


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## shortcut (Oct 24, 2017)

Yes to be correct I should have said high-carbon steel. But isn’t it a more dedicated tool - very thin edge combined with high hardness steel means more prone to chipping/cracking - so really have to be careful of using only for precision work, as you’ve suggested you do?

I prefer not to have to keep any hard and fast rules about using my knives - no lemons, don’t cut this vegetable, don’t use this technique, etc etc -
so my thought was that the Moritaka probably wasn’t going to be ideal for me. What do you think? Otherwise I’d love to try them out and they’re a bit cheaper than Mosono’s UX10 line. I also looked at Watanabe knives which were a bit more but had the same concerns.

I really enjoy my Sakai Takayuki grand cheff Japanese slicer (although it’s not a daily use knife) and have thought about getting their wu-handled gyuto version, but they only make it in a 240mm or larger version, and I’ve already got a couple Takayuki knives and would like to spread the love around a little. Hence why I thought Misono would be nice. Would anyone recommend another similar option instead?


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## shortcut (Oct 24, 2017)

For example - I've had both the Tanaka VG-10 gyuto, or for a bit more money, the Masakage Kiri VG-10 mentioned as possible options. Any benefit of paying a bit more for those? I've also seen that the Misono chef knives are not that tall in general, even at 210mm - so I'm wondering if that is an actual concern.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Firstly the Grand Chef is no more rugged than what Moritaka offers, both are thin and hard. Tall is of no big concern unless you really dig scooping stuff with your blade.

Not many fans of vg-10 here, Tanaka Ginsan is far more desirable.


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## shortcut (Oct 24, 2017)

rick alan said:


> Firstly the Grand Chef is no more rugged than what Moritaka offers, both are thin and hard. Tall is of no big concern unless you really dig scooping stuff with your blade.
> 
> Not many fans of vg-10 here, Tanaka Ginsan is far more desirable.


I mean, ruggedness is one criteria - but I have a hard time thinking the Moritaka isn't a lot more fussy than the Grand Chef from a use perspective.

I haven't looked for pricing on the Tanaka, but for the Takayuki Ginsan appeared to be about double the price. Is that normal?

My understanding was that Misono and Grand Chef was AEB-L or Misono's claimed variant. Is that a bit more desirable than the vg-10 stuff?


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

The Tanaka Ginsan is a great value, many feel their HT of this steel is superior, but the have been some FF issues with it.


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## shortcut (Oct 24, 2017)

You know, my last real online Japanese knife purchase was probably in 2008 or so - there’s a lot more aleasily available options now! I decided to get a smaller 180mm Takamura R2 gyuto instead - it will primarily be the wife’s knife so I wanted something a bit smaller, and people say good things about the Takamura knives.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

The Takamura is a godd choice, so long as your wife has decent technique and will not be doing things like twisting the knife on the board. No Japanese knives are really meant to handle that.


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