# Restaurant doggy bag health dept regs.



## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

Recently we had a holiday party at a local restaurant. The food was served in chafing dishes. Not too long after the meal we were dispersing. We asked for containers to take the food back to our office where we would have it for lunch the next day. We were informed that we were unable to take the food due to health dept. regs concerning holding temps.

In the past we have done this, I also see no difference between that and a doggy bag for a part of 4 at a table.
Assuming the restaurant keeps the food in the required safe zone it should be safe to remove from the premisis. It is not different than sending out a "to-go" order. 

They seemed to have no problem allowing us to take Cheesecake which would fall under the same temperature requirements. There was a lot of food left due to the amount of people that did not show.

Is there really a "new" reg concerning this situation or was the restaurant mis-informed.

Any thoughts?


----------



## dillbert (Jul 2, 2008)

>>>Any thoughts?

uhm, yeah. I was doing some database work at a place and there was a "free lunch" for employees and the source of that free lunch was stuff ala your description....

depending on circumstance, the kitchen management may have the leftovers already earmarked for "other purposes"


----------



## chefdrizzle (Dec 23, 2007)

its a weird concept... i mean yeah your able to take home food after you just had a nice dinner with your family. but since ive worked in restaurants ive noticed that whenever a party has a buffet line they RARELY let the people who payed for the buffet take any leftovers home... i dont understand it that much either... i mean maybe cuz that food has been sitting on sterno's for an hour that might have something to do with it, ive never really bothered to ask.:crazy:


----------



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

The food is hot in chafers ,now it is packed to go home, but they stop at diner for coffee. Food sits in trunk temp changes again. Now goes into their fridge home, still probably covered and tepid temp.Gets reheated but is it heated correctly? I dont blame the restaurant or caterer. Liability today is unbelievable. The possibility of food bacteria very high. The same thing bringing food into a place like a WEDDING CAKE., whether your cake or mine. I am responsable therefore I wont allow it. In fact even if you sign a release I am still responsable. When food delivered from takeout, it comes hot and you eat right away in most cases. It is also different then doggie bag ,as that is for you . Food from chaffers to feed a lot of other people is not.


----------



## dillbert (Jul 2, 2008)

>>>>The food is hot in chafers ,now it is packed to go home, but they stop at diner for coffee. Food sits in trunk temp changes again. Now goes into their fridge home, still probably covered and tepid temp.Gets reheated but is it heated correctly?<<<<<<<

and this is different from a single plate doggie bag how?
__________________________________________________ ________
__________________________________________________ ________


----------



## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

Food for a table of 4 = enough food for exactly 4 people.
Food on a buffet = enough food so that people may overeat, have a full looking buffet throughout, and especially, enough so that if a majority eat the chicken instead of the beef, their needs are met.
Because of this, more food than is actually expected to be consumed is prepared and presented.

Desserts may fall in a different category if exactly enough are prepared.
But again, if there is an assortment, there will probably be more prepared than the exact headcount of the group, because you don't know exactly how many will choose the chocolate moussecake and how many the fruit tart.
In that case, these desserts won't be traveling either.

I had a party that had Baron of Beef.
We had to carve into a second steamship to meet the guests needs.
At the end, they wanted the 50 pound roast to take with them, and I declined.
Their position was that they had payed for all of the food prepared.
My position was that they had paid for all of the food they consumed.
They left without the roast.

Besides, I didn't have a doggy bag large enough.


The safety issue is the reason most often communicated to the customer.
The reason I explained above is the true reason.


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Many caterers will not leave food.....just think about how many guests have fingered it, double dipped etc. 

I left cut up fruit and baked goods this morning, if it was on the buffet it's left for the office if it's not likely to hurt someone. So, I wouldn't leave an egg casserole or meat platter that's been out ......
if it's not gone on the buffet and the amount was not specified then it's back to the kitchen with it.

I just hate it when a hostess wants to keep the chicken skewers or sandwiches that have lived a full life and need to die. Most of the time they are pitched at the end, but if a hostess (at home event) REALLY wants them I'll give them the puking caveat and how it's not worth hugging a porcelin god over leftovers, if they say ok after that it's on them. I know, I know....but hey, happens.


----------



## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

All caterers and hotels I have worked at have the policy of no food taken at the end of the buffet. This is for both the health reasons and the cost reasons as stated in the above posts. However, if it is a plated dinner, with counts, and there are a few no shows then we would often give the food to the host if they asked.


----------



## oldschool1982 (Jun 27, 2006)

Ch, 

I know it's been a good bit of time since I cooked in your neck of the woods (Geneseo and Rochester) but I don't ever remember there being a code like that. And I had experiences with both Livingston and Monroe Counties. If you paid for it you should be able to get some of the left-overs. Then again.....Time does change things.

Personally if the function was off premise they could take all they wanted. Less I had to deal with in hauling back or disposing of right there. Heck I've done a couple where I actually solicited free samples of some unused platters to neighboring offices or businesses. On premise it depended on what the condition of things on the line were. 

Since I had a policy that the buffet had to look as good at the end as in the beginning, there were certain things that would not be recycled. Yes I said recycled.:suprise: There are some things that are acceptable to do this with especially if it never hit the chafer's and when you have buffet servers. The guests never touched a spoon, tongs or fork on the line.

You expect folks to eat more than they normally would and it was built into the cost so why not let them grab a couple things for the office or.....Good customer service. Most often anything that was out there was fair game. 
Yet I do understand and have practiced suggestive offerings. If it could be harmful then there was no way it was leaving the building.


----------



## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

For years I have heard the line "The State Health Code does not allow food served on a buffet to be taken off premise" or something to that affect. And I think it is a good policy, but I never questioned the validity of those statements. Well, I just glanced through the Wisconsin Health Code (now there is some fun reading let me tell you) and I never did find anything prohibiting taking food home from a buffet, at least nothing straight forward. There are lots of warnings about time and temp. restrictions that could be used, but here is one part of the code that seems to really imply this: 
Since we, as food operators can't guarentee that the consumer, eating off of a buffet, hasn't comtaminated the food in some way, it is our duty to discard it, especially when coupled with the time and temp. guidelines. So while it doesn't expressly forbid it, it does in a roundabout way.

There maybe a code hidden in there that I missed, but that is all I found.


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Nasal and oral discharges.....GROSSSSSSS!!!!


----------



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Jim. 
You have guaranteed them unlimited food in a certain time span. You fulfilled that duty and then some. You guaranteed them all the food they could eat on the premise not off the premise and you did that also. The food has been laying oiut on the buffet 2 maybe 3 hours thats it end of story they recieved what they paid for, and you are right in refusing.


----------



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Legal standpoint
Those two or 4 people requested or told you they wanted it to go, therefore its not all your responsability, they asked. At a buffet left overs 20 or 30 other people didnt ask you.for it, you only gave it to one who asked. I am not looking to pay more in liability insurance, you want to give it to them in your place then you do it.


----------



## oldschool1982 (Jun 27, 2006)

I guess it all comes down to a "judgment call" of the person(s) doing the food. I mean , in my case, I did my best to make sure that nothing that became contaminated by a guest or staff remained on the buffet. If a guest sneezed directly over a chaffer or platter, that item was pulled, replaced and discarded.....no questions asked! We did our best to ensure that the food was of the best quality possible and this is not limited to just the ingredients. So if a platter that was not used and couldn't be recycled was left over.......why not? 

If the food was held in proper zones, as it should be, (cold or hot) throughout the entire service there should be no issues. All this talk of legal this or legal that is rather useless especially since the laws (and precedence) of New York vary from 49 other states. What works in one generally doesn't carry to another. Yes there are certain things like common sense statutes that are basic to all codes but even with something like "serve safe" if I remember correctly, I had to re certify in every state I moved to (or even opened up a restaurant in at times). It was never my position or place to protect people from themselves. Couldn't pay me enough to do that. But believe you me if someone does get sick that just happened to eat your food, it doesn't matter whether you were the one that made them sick or not. There's going to be some lawyer that crawls out from under a rock to take the case and name you as well as 2 dozen other defendants. No consumer is ever going to admit that they did something stoopid like leave the to-go box in the car over night and then eat the food the next day because the temp outside felt cold. The food was in proper and edible condition when it was removed from your control and influence. This should apply to any food taken out of the restaurant. If we are going to debate "left-overs" buffet lines should be outlawed as well as portion sizes that allow for food to be taken out of or off the premises. Serve smaller amounts and build in a cost or charge for seconds if you want to totally eliminate any and all liability. 

Yet it's not so much a matter of legal law but of ethical judgment. If you feel comfortable putting your name on the food that is left over from the buffet, then by all means go ahead and do what you wish AND if the health code statutes allow for it to be given away then why not. We had always donated food to the Food Bank that was still edible but just not up to par for the standards we set for the operation. This is almost the same thing only the guest/customer/client paid for the food. 

IMHPO I've been out of the loop for a few years now. But when I last did things I had dual states to deal with considering I lived in Kansas City, MO. Being on the border to Kansas and Missouri was a challenge at times. There were definite differences between the two and these are neighboring states. I have no idea what Virginia codes are like (or the current code of NY or any other state for that matter) but in the interest of knowledge, this may be chance to get to know them. Can't hurt.


----------



## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

Interestingly, health regulations in Japan are such that doggy bags don't happen. Can't be done. I've seen it happen in very, very high-end restaurants as a special thing, not something actually asked for but freely offered, but otherwise nada. But take-out is pretty common.

No idea what the liability laws are here, but it does seem to be generally agreed that food once served at a restaurant is not to be re-served in any way, shape, or form.

Just a comparative note.

(Personally, I am a little grossed out by the idea of taking a doggy bag home from an open buffet where weird Uncle Phil kept sneezing into his hands, wiping them inside his pockets, and then reaching for the "good piece" he saw at the back of the tray....)


----------



## dillbert (Jul 2, 2008)

I don't think we're on the same page -

somebody orders a 32 ounce steak, can not finish it, wants it in a doggy bag.

company orders a buffet, wants the leftovers.

you have no control over anything that happens after <whoever> gains physical control of the food.

how do you handle the "set up & leave" situation? is the caterer responsible for food borne illness if the client leave stuff out for five days before somebody comes in for a nibble?


----------



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

No! I believe we are not on same page, as I said I do not want my liability insurance to go up> We are insured for on premise not off. As I said in previous post you can do whatever you want in your place. Lets not beat a dead horse


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

off premise catering is very different from onsite......we are hauling preped food from the kitchen to a site, be it someone's home or a venue or a field. 

Buffets are set out and general rule of thumb only stay out 1.5-2 hours for room temp apps.....dinner is such that food is not left out any longer than it takes a steady flow of people to go through.


----------



## deltadoc (Aug 15, 2004)

And people I go out to buffets with from work, wonder why I want to arrive promptly at 11am when the buffet opens!

Nothing worse than food from a picked over buffet in a restaurant full of people already eating.

doc


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

right up there with that grossness......watching someone scrape the remaining amounts of into the new batch....you have to wonder how many have been scraped and mixed in....HOW OLD IS IT EXACTLY?

wooooooo awwwww I love discovering the new size/color/font buttons.....we need MORE smilies that puke or look disgusted ....


----------



## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Huh? Same batch. All reheated at 7am and held indefinitely. 

Actually in the old days it was common to fire up one big batch and hold it all day.


----------



## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

I sent the question off to our local health dept. and this was the reply:


----------



## rpmcmurphy (Jan 8, 2008)

Restaurant I frequent, gives you a ticket for your doggy bag and they keep it in the back at the right temp until you go home/pick up your coat at the coat check. 

I like it.....

A. I always forget it at the table

B. I like taking my time with dessert/drinks/cheese/conversation

C. Better than having a silly bag on your table


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

or an aluminum swan.


----------



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Ah the infamous bird of paradise! That usually gets left in the car.


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

right next to the White Castle bag:lol:


----------



## mikelm (Dec 23, 2000)

Chef Drizzle said...

*"ive noticed that whenever a party has a buffet line they RARELY let the people who payed for the buffet take any leftovers home... i*

As the owner of a restaurant chain where my wife worked - not a buffet, but with frequent "all you can eat" promos - always said:

*"It's all you can eat, not all you can carry."*

No doggy bags for the promo items. 

Mike


----------



## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

At the casino I used to work for Wed. were half price senior buffet. Those little old ladies can pack a huge amount of broasted chicken into a purse :lol:


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Granny, what a nice smelling bag you have......


----------



## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

When I worked at the country club every holiday we had a buffet. There was this one old lady that would always take a "doggy bag" home of the hot food. According to her it was because she had a small appetite and never got beyond the salad and cold apps. part of the buffet. We all know it was because she ate 5 pounds of peel and eat shrimp. But she would throw a fit if we tried to charge her extra for the take home and since it was a country club, and they all could do as they pleased, well....


----------



## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

I have noticed that buffets are more popular in certain regions of the country. In the south for example, buffets run rampant. In ny where I live now people turn their nose up at a buffet. I don't mind a buffet if I see it is well run and organized and attended by staff. Preferably a buffet should have several attendants that serve you.

Down south there was a huge seafood buffet restaurant we would go to with my family. My father had a special plan of attack for the buffet. The way he saw it the line forms at the front end of the buffet - here you will find all kinds of salads, cold macaroni and potato salads, crackers, soups, and breads. Moving on you begin to see fried seafood stuff like fried clams, shrimp, fish, hush puppies, and other filling things. Then on to non-seafood items like baked chicken, rice, pasta, meatloafs, etc. Eventually all the way in the back you start finding the good stuff... oysters, mussels, clams, crab legs, lobster, crafish, grilled fish, etc. So his plan was to start at the back of the buffet and work his way to the front, bypassing all the stuff they try to fill you with so you won't have enough room in your tummy for the expensive things.


----------



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Some down here in Florida have their pocketbooks lined with a plastic bag. The they wonder why at the end of year they are assesed??


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

you really have to watch the LOL (little old ladies), I've known 90+ year olds that can eat as much as a 20 year old atheltic boy (well almost), going back for thirds. Tiny frail birds just packing it away......I've sat and watched them eat.

I just catered a holiday party for a non-profit board, one of the guests is a long time acquaintence that I've catered for a couple of times. He just turned 70 and was hanging around the kitchen most of the night. Toward the end he asked for a baggy of brownies.....I said you know how to get these brownies? you call up Julie and say," Julie I want you to cater a party and have the brownies on the dessert menu"........I found a small baggy and sent him home with a few goodies. funny guy....travels the world eating and taking photos, is a retired orthopedic surgeon who hangs out at farmers' markets.


----------



## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Mushroom Girl ""Thats why they have Money""""


----------

