# Charging for a 'Fine-Dining' 5 course meal for two ppl



## akasly (Nov 8, 2016)

I have recently been asked to do a private 'fine-dining' dinner for two. Most of my experience is in Larger corporate parties and kids events.. so i am not sure how to value my personal skills in a upscale environment.

The event i am hosting is a 5 course, 2 person meal. We are bringing it all to her home and will be serving each course as it is ready. 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​HERE IS THE MENU​​_{START IT OFF}_​​[if !supportLists]o [endif]Maple Roasted Tomato Toast w/ Goat Cheese And Mint

[if !supportLists]o [endif]Mint Lemonade
​_{ANTIPASTA}_​[if !supportLists]o [endif]Tortilla Soup w/ Cilantro and Grilled Lime
​_{MAIN COURSE}_​[if !supportLists]o [endif]Slow roasted pork and belly w/ cilantro pan sauce

[if !supportLists]o [endif]Tuscan Porterhouse Steak w/ 'red wine peppercorn' au jus

[if !supportLists]o [endif]Homemade Pico De Gallo w/ citrus marinated tomatoes

[if !supportLists]o [endif]Homemade Guacamole w/ jalapeno oil and red onion

[if !supportLists]o [endif]Lime Salted Fresh Crèma

[if !supportLists]o [endif]Soft/Crisp Corn and Flour Tortillas

[if !supportLists]o [endif]Homemade Lime Chips


_{CLEANSER}_​[if !supportLists]o [endif]Classic Italian Bruschetta w/ Mozzarella and Fresh Basil
​_{DESSERT}_​[if !supportLists]o [endif]Champagne Poached Peaches w/ Vanilla Bean Ice Cream
​​​ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT NI TERMS OF PRICING AND ECT.​EndFragment


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Tough one.  Two people.  I would tell them to get 4-6 more people together.


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## peachcreek (Sep 21, 2001)

I am working as a private cook right now. I charge for my time. If I have to go shop for food for my clients' meal? I get paid for my time. I'm not a restaurant. I do not make a margin on my 'dishes'. I make my money by how much time it takes for me to do what they ask.

What is your time worth? Only you can answer that question.

Good luck!


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

You are a culinary student not a chef or professional. Do it for free. The menu looks like it was created by someone watching to much reality TV. Why would you have toast, Tortillas, and Bruschetta on the same menu. Is this a cruse around the EU? Do you have a business or are you just playing chef? Don't leave your house for less than $300 profit. Welcome to Cheftalk.

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COSTS = Labor (including your own, if applicable) + Food + Utilities + Rent + Licenses + Tax reserve + Insurance + any other costs of doing business, including interest, depreciation, and all the hidden costs.


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## capecodchef (Jan 19, 2014)

"Do it for free but don't leave the house for under $300?"  Huh???!

Listen to Peachcreek instead, I'd say.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

> _{MAIN COURSE}_
> [if !supportLists]o [endif]Slow roasted pork and belly
> 
> EndFragment


That's either a typo or it's not described correctly???


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

Just charge the value of the ingredients + time. Easy peasy. Dont cut yourself too short. Pay the server 15$/ hr. Yourself similar perhaps 20. Add all that up and voila. Easy way to do it.
Split the tip. Charge the tip. Invoice them and collect payment before service. 

You shouldnt have shown your menu 

Bruschetta is cleanser? Ok.

Porterhouse tacos? SIGN ME UP!


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

You need a better menu. This one makes no sense. Is it Tuscan, Mexican or ??? Have you had a chef you know review it? 

Charge as the others have suggested but come up with a better menu first.


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## peachcreek (Sep 21, 2001)

When I was doing my many coursed meals my framework was app/fish/salad/entree/dessert/cheese. I also owned a restaurant and had all of my appliances, time and space.

No repeats!

No bread till the cheese course.

Tiny bites.

It really helps to imagine what all of everything looks like plated; then imagining a 135 lb person trying to enjoy every bite. Palate fatigue and eating while full both detract from the experience. What I see is citrus everywhere and a carb overload. I'd probably be happy with the soup, app and dessert.

Good luck!

Peachcreek


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

I thought it was kinda heavy (re number of dishes and over garnishing) as well but maybe the client requested all this?

With that many dishes something is sure to not come out..... lookin' at the huge number of dishes in the main course and the odd palate cleanser.

Pare it down and simplify.

Fine dining refers to smooth and gracious service...nicely set table and good beverage pairings.

As long as your guests feel comfy and have an "experience" they will be very happy...

mimi


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## akasly (Nov 8, 2016)

I see a lot of criticism of what i'm doing wrong, but not a lot of help going forward. I own my own business and was given a sample menu of what they wanted. They wanted the experience of going to a taco bar... in italy.. in the 1940's. So i did the best i could to make that happen. I really just wanted to know how much is too much, and how much is too little. 

If you wanted a 2 person meal in your home, with a menu that looks similar to this. How much would you be willing to pay? Max/Min


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

akasly said:


> I see a lot of criticism of what i'm doing wrong, but not a lot of help going forward.


If you are new to the industry, get used to that because it will happen a lot from all corners and directions. Everybody has an opinion and are usually pretty to happy to share them with you for free. I say "if" because I am a little confused because in your profile you listed yourself as student but in your second post you mention that you own your own business...so...the first sentence is just another example of the subject matter of the second sentence...but I digress...

I would never pay enough for a two person dinner in my house to make it worthwhile for the person putting forth the business proposition, so I can't be of much help there, but people constantly amaze me at how much they will pay. Off the top of my head, anything less than $300 will be a losing proposition and I ain't sure that it can be done for $300, but I ain't punching the numbers to find out. FWIW, as a chef, I wouldn't touch it for $300...way too little pay scale for moi.

It would probably have to be at least $500 for me to even consider punching the numbers to see if it had any validity, and I am not sure if even that is enough, but it was just a quick spitball figure off the top of my head.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

[justify]I'm sorry, but I must be missing this whole idea. The dinner is for just 2 people? The dinner is in the client's home? They gave you that menu? Is that all correct or are there different and/or adjustable details details? I don't understand why this is all so difficult. [/justify][justify] [/justify][justify]I'd charge them $50 each plus the food cost. There are half a dozen franchise places they could go to for < $20 each + drinks, out the door. NO ... you are not that good to be charging crazy _cheflayne_ prices for that menu, or you would not be asking us here. There is nothing on that menu that requires a Michelin-quality chef to put out. I also don't see why you'd need any server or assistant ... unless you don't need to get paid. It's just two(2) people. You're in-out in less than 3 hours.  [/justify]


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

IceMan said:


> [justify]to be charging crazy _cheflayne_ prices [/justify]


/img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif /img/vbsmilies/smilies/rollsmile.gif /img/vbsmilies/smilies/chef.gif /img/vbsmilies/smilies/bounce.gif /img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif /img/vbsmilies/smilies/peace.gif


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

I wouldnt shop, come to their home, cook and serve all that
for 50 bucks plus FC either. Below my minimum, for
the shopping and work involved. 300.00 plus FC.
And I wouldnt need a helper either. Its just cooking for 2.

I will say that the diversity of answers above does strengthen 
what we often tell people asking about what to charge for their
time.....that its ultimately up to you--it's YOUR time, and one Chef's 
200 bucks is another's 5.

Your menu is an unusual request, it makes it kind of...unbalanced. 
But in the end you do whatever the customer wants.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

For that menu ... _NOBODY_ is going to get more than $50/seat + food cost unless some it's done by some big-name celebrity chef. You hot-shots can forget your major-league pay scales. You have to know what going rates at regular establishments are and then determine how much extra people will pay for personalized service. There is nothing on that menu that any journeyman line-cook can't do in the middle of a rush. This type of thing is exactly what I do. Trust me here ... unless we're talking a _Thomas Keller_ type ... it ain'te gonna happen.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

The menu doesn't factor into what my time is worth. I also didn't say the dinner would happen for the price. Actually, I would be shocked if it did, but that is up to the client.

And...I do know what the going rate is for chefs and waiters doing private dinners in my area. I actually did a five course private dinner (sans waiter) for 10 people just last weekend.

The reason in this case that it approaches asinine status is because it is for two people. If it were for 10 or so people, the labor cost would remain about the same because the time element involved would not be greatly changed. The food cost would of course go up, but the overall price when divided by 10 people, would make it seem much more reasonable.

There is no way in hell paying my labor rate and that of a waiter, for a dinner for two is ever going to seem reasonable. It is going to remain in the realm of the absurd...but stupider things have happened.


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

Iceman im not saying i think that particular menu
is worth 3 bills plus FC, just saying its a minimum.
And once the minimum deck is reached, price perJohn 
just goes up n up til like Cheflayne says, it gets ridiculous.
On the other hand Ive done dinners for 8 in the 
banquet room at 150.00 per person.
But it was pretty high end cuisine, and about 50percent
fund raiser.


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

Cheflayne is not making crazy prices he is making sense.  Perceived value is very important in marketing a 'Fine-Dining' 5 course meal.  The customer wants more than a franchise take out.  They want to feel special.  It may make them feel important to spend a lot of money on themselves.   Not all people are low paid hospitality workers.  To do this for $100 and food cost your working for minimum wage and taking a risk.  It may be easier to sell a $500 'Fine-Dining' 5 course meal than a cheap $100 meal.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

OK ... What I'm saying is is that you need to be aware of the basic standard competition. Portillo's, Brown's Chx and every other Choke&Puke catering place for that, and TGI Friday's, Hooter's, Chili's et al for eats/drinks go-out. There is where your competition is $$$-wise. Believe it or not ... $$$ trumps everything else 98.6% of the time. Particularly for 2-people w/ the given menu. Unless you're a _"Top Chef"_ type chef, you're not in the game for the big $$$ stated. Take off your ego caps and welcome to reality. I'm not sure of the true definition of _"fine dining"_ ... but for _Me_ ... and _My clients_ ... it's the best whatever I put on their plates than they've ever had anywhere else. People actually hire me to make them home-cooked _"comfort food"_ because that is what I do better than they can find anywhere else. Just this week I did 2 couples serving them an amuse, a killer over-the-top chopped salad, delicious "Red Lobster" style rolls, butter poached lobster tails _"French Laundry"_ style and a knock-out dessert _(which is a miracle for me)_. I got $70/seat std.chg. and I charged dbl. cost on the wine. _Out the door._ I did also get a healthy tip. 

Now if I'm wrong ... and you can charge the $$$ you all want to claim ... GO FOR IT ... I'm happy for you. _MY EXPERIENCE_ _(Chicagoland)_ doing exactly this says good luck.


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

How do you KNOW them Lobby Rolls were delicious Iceman? 
Did you actually TRY one?  

You know the thing is, personal Cheffing like that can be a funny business. 
You can charge the moon, and if you have the attitude to go with it, 
they will not only pay you but they will be tickled to do so. 
That translates to you being well paid and them asking you back again. 
The trick......well the trick is to sell it all with a straight face. 
Takes extreme confidence, among other things. 

But it also, as I will admit and agree, usually takes a pretty special menu.
In this case......if I gave them my "crazy" price, and they said 
'What? That much $$$ for THIS menu? " 
I would probably respond with:
"Well I'm flexible. What menu DO you want for that price? 
Its just the 2 of you--name your heart's desire, and I shall make it!"


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

12 rolls ... for 4 people ... none left ... _THAT_ tells me they were delicious. NO, smartyclown ... they weren't just all that hungry and the rolls weren't little. I know and agree with your _"selling"_ idea. I also know _"charge what the market will bare"_. That and what you want to charge are sometimes very distant relatives. My clients hire Me for having Me. I'm paid just fine ... and they become repeat customers. I didn't just start doing this last week. I'm a very good finagler, but with personalized dining it's like ... _"Oh? ... That much? ... OK ... Thanks. Do you know where there is a Portillo's?"_. I get return diners based on what I serve and how good I make it. I told you before ... home-cooked _"comfort food" ... _better than they can get anywhere else. Plus, I specialize vegetarian and vegan dinners. Forget going out for that as well as I do it. Lots of times I also offer _"You call the menu"_, like you suggested. My prices are standard regular, but there's no promise to get any extra take-home. As it was, the lobster dinner was $70 not my usual $50. The lobster alone was over $30 my cost. They expected that going in so there was no explaining anything.


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

Fwiw, I just saw a lamb rack at the supermarket for 18 and change. Maybe enough there for two people, maybe. Food isn't cheap. Neither is my time. I don't have the experience of Iceman and others doing private dinners but I know I wouldn't have any problem quoting the price. My plumber/electrician costs $100 just to say hello. Why should I get bought off cheap?


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

That same plumber/electrician gets paid more than the people educating your children. 

Figure that out.


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

Interesting you brought up plumbers and electricians. They are indisbutably skilled laborers.

As line cooks or sous or chefs, do we consider ourselves skilled labor?

Do most people consider cooks skilled labor?


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Question for @IceMan. One item you choose to ignore in your rush to deride those of us with ego caps, in the OP he mentioned a server in addition to himself. Granted I would never use a server for such a small party, but not knowing nor really caring one way or the other whether it was at the bequest of the client or the decision of akasly, I provided my input based the info of two working people needing to make it worth their while.

I fully expect a rash of of blustering and bashing at how two people are not needed and only _"Thomas Keller" , _Top Chefs, Michelin star wannabes, blah, blah, blah would use two people, but on the outside chance that you might actually answer the query...what would you charge for a dinner with a two person working crew? /img/vbsmilies/smilies/peace.gif /img/vbsmilies/smilies/bounce.gif

disclaimer: I ain't upset or defensive or any sort of type of disgruntled, slightly amused maybe, and know where you are coming from ( a while back I said I wouldn't expect the client to accept my terms and would be shocked if they did; basic ham and eggers) but there is a curious/serious side to my question...so give


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

I don't think my intention was to deride anyone. I'm sorry if I came off that way. I've been in this business for a little while, and whereas I'd very much like to be in the price range where all those of you wearing "ego caps" are, my experience says that it's just not there. It's not there if you want work anyway. My point about the _"Thomas Keller"_ chefs is based on regular customers not being in any hurry to pay those prices to chefs like us with regular working names, no matter how good we just might be. Dude ... _I DO THIS KINDA STUFF_ just about every week. My clientele knows my abilities. Even the most loyal of them, the ones that go out of their way to get me work, get real hinky about those kinda prices. Now on the other point ... Look at that menu. Who comes up with kinda stuff? Who in the industry is gonna call that _"fine dining"_? Who needs 2 people for that? My point here is that I do not think the OP has any real professional experience. I see him jumping wide-eyed into a shark tank. Is it better for us, those he came to, to be all sugary coated and let him get eaten ... or to tell him real-life opinions and answers about the reality of our business?


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

I agree with where youre coming from by n large, ManOf Ice-- we get many of these people in here who know nothing, and get a little afronted when we tell them straight. 
Problem is we almost never see the other end of the equation, we never get them coming back saying "you know you guys were right-- I fell flat on my face lost my butt." lol

As to the dinner for two, I probably wouldnt do one, unless i got like a killer
deal on a great cut or something, and could absorb the difference as additional profit.
If they want economical, I'd prob send em to the local Petroni's, where they can keep their
prices lower by spreading it out over volume of service.


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## jimyra (Jun 23, 2015)

Iceman I am trying to understand your replies a little better.  Do you have a restaurant?  When your are talking about the lobster dinner for 4 was that in your restaurant?


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

IceMan said:


> [justify]My point here is that I do not think the OP has any real professional experience. I see him jumping wide-eyed into a shark tank. Is it better for us, those he came to, to be all sugary coated and let him get eaten ... or to tell him real-life opinions and answers about the reality of our business?[/justify]


The oxymoronic aspect to offering advice is that a wise man doesn't need it and a foolish man won't take it. (tip of the hat to Benjamin Franklin)

I learn more from my mistakes than I do from my success. With successes, I am too busy passing patting myself on the back and telling myself "After all, what did I expect?".

My point to my replies thus far has been that any time I accept a job, whether it be in a restaurant or doing a private dinner; I always have a minimum amount of pay below which I won't accept the job. All the time on craigslist I see chef jobs at $15.00 or <. I don't send them my resume. Hell minimum wage here is $10.00.

I am very reasonable, realistic, and in tune with industry standards on what I deem acceptable pay for me. I must be because I haven't had to look for a job in years, they seem to find me and it is not because I have any kind of celebrity status or am God's gift to the culinary world. No, basically, I am just good at what I do.

$50.00 a plate (plus food cost) I can relate to and it falls in line with what I have charged in the past. However, my point is, two plates, ain't going to hit the pre-established monetary minimum mark by the time I figure time shopping, prepping, cooking, cleaning, serving, and traveling.

The rate that my head evaluates before deeming the pay to be acceptable, is based on an hourly figure, not a per plate figure.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

akasly said:


> They wanted the experience of going to a taco bar... in italy.. in the 1940's. So i did the best i could to make that happen.


/img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif Whaaaaaat?

If thats the case I think you did OK on the menu. I read it and I was like "WTF is this" but after you said that it kinda makes sense.

How much to charge? I dunno. You don't have a lot of experience, and anytime you do something like this it can be an experience/resume builder. You'll have to determine what your time is worth.


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

Taco bar in Italy in the 1940s?  Was that even a thing? Can or did you do any research? Any old menus to refer to? Old original recipes?


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Peachcreek said:


> I am working as a private cook right now. I charge for my time. If I have to go shop for food for my clients' meal? I get paid for my time. I'm not a restaurant. I do not make a margin on my 'dishes'. I make my money by how much time it takes for me to do what they ask.
> 
> What is your time worth? Only you can answer that question.
> 
> Good luck!


This needs to be a sticky on the catering forum.

mimi


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

kuan said:


> Tough one. Two people. I would tell them to get 4-6 more people together.


chortle, such a romantic


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Think of all the time you spend on it....menu planning, shopping, prepping, drive time, consulting time, +day of.....I would line item other staff. Do not be afraid to charge significant $.....


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Heeey shroomgirl!    Missed you around these parts!


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Hey Kuan, yeah looks like it's been 3 or so years since I have played on cheftalk. Tony Bourdain was in town last weekend and reminded me about the early years


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