# Recent Culinary School Grad w/ Over 40 Years of Cooking Experience...Same As A Novice Graduate?



## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

I'm curious as to how I'll be treated in this industry.  I grew up collecting recipes before I could even comprehend them.  I just cut them out of magazines and newspapers and started putting them in a photo album.  I would watch cooking shows that came on in the 60s, 70s, etc., and at age 13, began making my first dishes.  I hung around the kitchens of my mother, aunt, grand-mother, and great-grand mother, picking up tips and watching them create beautiful southern meals.

I learned my knife skills from watching Jacques Pepin, Martin Yan, Paul Prudomme and several others.  I joined the U.S. Army and when I completed my tour of duty, I went to school and received a diploma for legal secretary and have a certificate in Business Management/Supervision.  I worked in law firms for over 21 years and retired in 2010. Two years ago, I enrolled in culinary school and will graduate in two weeks.  I have stayed on the academic honor roll since enrollment and am a little nervous, but nonetheless, excited about working.  Hopefully, it will be a joy going to work.  I don't think I've ever experienced "joy at work".

Anyway, as I stated earlier, I have cooked for over 40 years and not just simple home meals (I've made those, too), but extravagant meals like Veal Veronique, Boiled Egg Stuffed Meatloaf (a slice of egg in every slice), deboned and stuffed chicken quarters, Hollandaise sauce, chicken Marsala, Steak au Poivre, Tiramisu, Sicilian tomato sauce, demi glace, stocks, broths, etc.  I can scramble the best fluffiest eggs, and I bake on the weekends just to practice.  I recently made char sui buns, potato hamburger buns, and old fashioned chocolate cake.  This cake was so moist, I sent one to my husband's job and he said the consensus was "spectacular".  I really care about the freshness, quality, and above all, sanitation in my work space.

My question is with all of this experience under my belt, along with a formal culinary education (I've finally learned the how, whens, whats and whys of cooking), will I be treated similar to a recent culinary school grad that had no cooking experience prior to school? Not to sound pompous, but I've observed the students in my class and you should see what they do to eggs and half of them, if not all, don't know you're supposed to split leeks and rinse them BEFORE you put them in a stock.  Some also think that just peeling a carrot eliminates washing it afterward.  It's crazy how they enter competitions and are proud of winning bronze metals and prancing around the school, working on the cafeteria grill, proclaiming themselves "expert" chefs.  It drove me nuts and I am truly glad to be done with that mishmosh.  Will I be treated like a culinary school novice and what can I do to set myself apart?  I do realize that I AM NOT A CHEF; I AM A COOK, and am willing to do what it takes to do an excellent job and gain the trust of the chef who hires me.  

Any advice?  Thanks.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Here's what 99% of prospective employers will say:

"40 years of cooking experience, eh?  Yet you have no related hospitality industry experience listed on your resume......"


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

I mean, I've bartended before.  Went and got that 2-week diploma from a local bartending school.  While in high school, I was a short order cook during the summer at a hospital, and I've done a little cocktail waitressing.  Yep, that was ions ago, but I'm not banking on those experiences even though I'm pretty good with people.  I just need to know what I can expect.  That's all.  

If I wasn't willing to start from scratch, I wouldn't have the aspirations to reach the top.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


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## mikeswoods (Jun 14, 2013)

Don't play up the 40 years of fine home cooking to much---

Real life experience in a commercial kitchen--and the length of time you worked at each facility--

Without that on the resume---you are another recent grad looking for a first job in a kitchen--

Get your foot in the door and show the staff that you can produce----I wish I could sugar coat this--


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Look, I don't work for the KGB or Nat'l Security, but I have more questions for you.

The first is:

Q:  Why did you fork out the mega-bucks for culinary school if you've never worked in a kitchen before? 

(yes technically you worked for a summer in the kitchen 20 odd years ago, but...)    Don't you try before you buy?  You're absolutely certain you'll love it in the kitchen once you graduate even though you have, umm... "friction" between yourself and other students, as well as instructors?  Do you think you'll have more of the same in the workplace?  Or will everything be hunky-dory?

The second question is:

Q: What's the difference between a commercial kitchen and a home kitchen?  I'm not talking about pots and pans, or what kind of a stove you have.

A:  The main difference is that a commercial kitchen HAS to make a buck at the end of the day. 

If it doesn't, the place folds or the Chef gets the boot, as well as most of the staff s/he hired.

Let me put it to you another way:  Every decision the Chef makes, is based on how it will affect the food cost or the labour cost.  This applies to purchasing, staff hires, and especially designing the staff schedule.

Now f'rinstance, I usually bring in a case of whole fryers once a week, 24 whole birds.  I know if I break down the birds, I will get b'less breasts, thighs, wing tips, carcasses for stock, and fat to render down for schmalz at a far cheaper cost then it would cost me to buy each item pre-fab from the poultry supplier.  I know if I delegate this task to one of my employees, they can do it almost as fast as I can, and still make me some money. Money is labour, labour is money.  How fast can they do it, and still do a decent job?   If I delegate this task to an unknown, I could loose money big time.  Same principle applies to Caesar salad, peeled carrots, peeled onions, etc.

So yes, you learned a lot at school.  Knowledge IS power, great.

Skill is another story. 

Skill come from repetition, repetition takes time.  How many times have you made a Hollandaise?  How fast can you make it?  Can you ensure it won't split within an hour?  Can you do this day after day with no variations in consistency or quality?  

The only thing I can guarantee you is that your first job in a commercial kitchen will be very interesting.....


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Hi Etherial,

Did you have time to read over my post and maybe think about an answer or two to my questions?


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## Guest (May 18, 2014)

Cooking at home is so much different then cooking in the industry, and many employers think the exact same thing. Your experience could get you farther in your career then someone who has not cooked period, but most of the time you get your foot in the door through your resume. Don't be discouraged, but realize that it's going to take a lot of effort on your part to find a job just like it is with any graduate who has no prior industry experience.


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

Sorry, I didn't get a notification that you had replied to my question.  I'll be more than happy to answer:

1.  I didn't fork out major bucks, I am a veteran and the VA paid my way.  Working in the legal field for over 21 years had run its course and why shouldn't I do something I love doing?  As far as not getting along with the students and instructors at school, maybe you should take a trip down to Oakland, CA and see how you fare.  I mean there was no respect, dirty uniforms, tardiness, unsanitary habits while in the classroom or kitchen.  Example, one student (she was about 39 years old) burned her hand on one of the ovens and it formed a huge nasty blister.  Instead of covering it up, she and another student took her chef's knife and popped it right where we were baking cakes.  

Not getting along with an instructor who would instruct me to set up the grill station, which I did promptly, but after it was heated, scrubbed and oiled would go behind me a purposely turn off the grill and the fryer.  Service was in 10 minutes and a student didn't know it and put eggrolls in the oil, but they were barely cooking and we had to wait for it to heat up again.  The customer had to wait a little longer for their app.  Then he asked one of the students what my husband did for a living, found out, and then would broadcast it throughout the class.  Get along with him?  I wanted to snatch a knot in his ass, but instead reported him to the dean.  

This guy would comment on the extra equipment I had and my professional leather case I carried my books in.  He just singled me out for no reason known to me and it's not important anymore.  I am a very nice woman and care about the people I come in contact with, but one thing I won't tolerate is abuse of any kind.  If you knew me, you would be laughing all of the time.  That's the kind of person I am.  I get serious, though when it comes to my food.  His unprofessional actions were uncalled for, yet you assume that I was the problem.  This guy didn't teach, he gave us the answers in food costing class instead of asking us to work the problems out.  If I did ask a question, he considered arguing and then said, "you're exactly like I was in college.  I had to know how everything worked."  He also said, "don't worry about trying to figure it out, just remember the formula".  Ridiculous.  He told everyone they were passing regardless.

2.  As far as "breaking down a chicken", Foodpump, I've had to break down chickens since I was 10 years old.  My family was very southern and we went to the chicken store to buy live chickens and as a child, I watched the wranglers snap the chickens' necks, cut the head off, and wrap them in butcher paper for me to go home with the great-grandmother and sometimes my mother, and watch and learn how they would pluck the feathers off, and wave the body over an open flame to burn off the fine hairs.  I would watch them gut them and explain what part of the chicken was edible and what was throw-away.  After a few times watching, it became me and my sisters' job to de-feather, gut, and cut up the poultry for dinner.  We used almost every part; fried gizzards and liver, too.  This went on with pig kidney, beef and pork liver.  We butchered it all.  Lucky for you, you didn't know my mother because if it was done wrong and Effen slow, you might get a pot in the back of the head, so I know.

3.  As far as Hollandaise sauce goes, I made Hollandaise sauce in the 80s.  I made Benedict Poulet, stuffed meatloaf where you get a slice of boiled egg in every slice, chicken marsala, clams casino, spaghetti carbonara, pasta fagioli, veal veronique, char su bao, tiramisu (the best!), just to name a few.  I've watched Jacque Pepin, Julia, Paul Prudomme, Charlie Trotter, Jacque Torres, all do their things on tv and mimicked them daily and I mean daily.  Jacque Pepin taught me my knife skills.  Charlie Trotter taught me perfection, even if I'm not always perfect, I strive for it.

4.  My cooking is clean, quick, and flavorful.  I would stand at my herb closet and just chew every herb I had and mentally pair it with a protein or vegetable.  Who does that?  I do.  I still do when I purchase herbs or spices I've never tried before.  I just bought some Saigon Cinnamon and powdered chipole.  I just planted some fresh crinkle basil and rosemary in my yard.

Foodpump, I have major skills and can stand against the best of 'em.  Don't let my graduate status fool you.  At my finals this week (and I'd be more than happy to email you a copy) my we had to do a food portfolio of 15 international countries and my instructor weighed them.  Mine weighed 7.5 lbs. and was professional indexed with not only recipes, but the countries' history and major herbs.  He also wanted a booklet with our final recipes for the practical exam and my team failed me.  I had to do it all and I advised him that I would.  The booklet had to contain the recipes of the dishes we were serving the judges, a menu, and our food costings.

I did it all and received compliments that not only my binder and booklet were pristine, but mine was the best in the class.  I can brag now because I know what I'm capable of and want the opportunity to showcase my skills.  Believe it or not, I have major skills.

Lastly, I was in charge of the dessert for our practical final and received a perfect score and was told and I quote, "that was the best damned Tiramasu I've ever had.  As a matter of fact, it's better than what we make here for sale."

Enough?


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

Oh, one more thing, I can make my own cheese.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Thanks for your responses.

I noticed one topic that remained static in your posts, you don't seem to have a high opinion about your fellow students.  Yeah, yeah, you've given us all the reasons WHY you don't have such a high opinion about them, but you never mentioned about taking the time to show or explain why or how to do things properly. You are older, and world-wise, there's no reason why you shouldn't take more of an interest in your collegues. Doing so shows leadership and a genuine desire to make things better.  Keeping information and experiences to yourself and not sharing them with collegues at opportune situations shows, um, well it doesn't show leadership, eh? 

Three little facts of life I have to point out to you:

1) The majority of your fellow students are under the age of 22.  They are there for the same reasons you are-- to prepare to enter the hospitality workforce.   This also means that the majority of your co-workers will be of the same age and mentality when you enter the workplace.  Draw your own conclusions.

2) The other very important thing employers re looking for (the first is experience) is the ability to get along.  No one wants a prima-donna, or someone who refuses to work with someone else, or finds every opportunity to point out mistakes from co-workers, someone like that never lasts very long.  

3) Racism.  From reading your posts, I gather you are roughly the same age as I am--late 40's early 50's.  I'm not talking about racism like gender, colour, religion, etc., no,  I'm talking about our ages.  If the Chef and the majority of the brigade are under 30 yrs old, your (or my) odds of getting hired are very low.  Cooking is a tough job, and employers like 'em young and "mold-able"--that is, willing to work 60-70 works and tell them it is good working experience and to shut up and not complain because every one else is working the same hours.

Please keep in touch. Cheftalk is a wonderful community and we offer a lot of support and advice--if you want it.....  

You never know, a good culinary school friend could get your foot in the door of a good kitchen, so why burn your bridges now?


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

Let me go out and come in again.  My fellow classmates did not want my help.  Most came from homes that were filled with drama and heartache and strangers are not easily accepted, no matter how welcoming you may be.  I seriously tried to help when I saw mistakes being made or poor judgments.  Some would accept it and thank me, while others ignored me and faced the consequences. I never critiqued their work; God forbid.  I offered study sessions with them, but they chose to cheat on tests and talk over the instructor.

I was always on time, clean uniform, and made sure I had not only the required equipment to perform my tasks for the day, I had extra tools.  My fellow classmates wanted to borrow, borrow, borrow.  I lost an instant read thermometer, a uniform jacket, nice pens, and almost my knife kit, if I didn't have my name engraved on each knife, and another student spotted it and took it into the instructor's office.

I have tolerated cooking teams that would show up 2 1/2 hours late and had I was left to prep for the second semester Grande Buffet alone, but I didn't complain to the instructor.  She saw and complimented me for my dedication.  I extended my experience as a mother and wife and tried to form friendships, but it's hard talking to someone when they're wearing their headphones and want to talk about getting high or stealing the wine the school has for cooking; and that's the 58 year old.

I am 58 years old, kind, ambitious, and respect anyone who works with me.  I apologize if I came off like some prima donna.  The point I was trying to make is that all of my cooking skills were acquired PRIOR to going to school, which is why I went to school in the first place.  That said, my cooking and skills have improved 100% and I'm also very proud of my instructors.  He's worked with Eric Ripert and a few others.  I have only had one instance with an instructor and he apologized for his behavior.  Another instructor told me she thinks he liked me.  Well, that was certainly 3rd grade behavior and besides, I'm happily married and he knew it, but continued to tell the class what my husband did for a living and that we were rich.  We are not rich and I asked him several times to stop and his response was, "Aw, I'm just givin' ya shit."  Why?

I promise, the chef who hires me will get someone who will follow his/her instruction to the letter, prep a truck load of product, even if it I had to do it for a year.  I would respect their authority, show up for work on time and stay late, if asked.  I had no problem helping student's clean up their spaces when they were over-whelmed.  I had no problem tutoring a student who felt stuck in a subject.  Today, I graduated with honors.

Foodpump, I sincerely hoped I would have bonded with my classmates, but most didn't make it. I had envisioned a pool party at my house with all of us (or some) in my kitchen, creating dishes and mixing drinks and reminiscing about our culinary journey, but that's not going to happen.  After graduation, a couple of classmates are going to a bar in "the hood", two were already drunk in the ceremony this morning, and two more didn't even have their names on the grad list, but marched anyway.  They handed index cards to the announcer and marched.

I was the only one in the nutrition class last semester that became certified.  I was shocked when the instructor informed me.  I was on the honor roll the entire two years of my enrollment and I am very proud of my accomplishments.  

One more thing, I appreciate your advice regarding the workplace and I would never disrespect someone who is in authority over me just because they are young.  I have two grown children and respect them when they offer advise to me.  I'm very proud of how they turned out.  Very responsible young adults.  I applaud young adults who are striving toward success and who are responsible in that success.


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

I want to show you how I play with my food when I'm at school and at home.




  








Char Su Bao Buns.jpg




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Char Su Bao Buns





  








Sugar Domed Tiramisu - Practice for Final 5-13-14.




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Tiramisu Under Sugar Dome





  








Bistro - 2013.jpg




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1







Waiting for the Bistro to open for lunch.


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## ingyh (May 25, 2014)

Hi there, this is my first post and response. I can empathise with you on every level. I graduated last year as a baker and had similar experiences to you. I, like you was a mature student (48) I, like you had a previous professional life at a Senior level. I decided to underwrite my baking experience with a formal qualification. I, like you found younger students to be tardy, untidy with a laid back attitude which was frustrating.. The tutors were very good though and of a similar age and treated me with the respect a fellow professional, albeit different profession would expect.

It is difficult to break into any profession at the bottom, so will use my skills attained in a previous life and put the hard work into my own venture and have decided to go it alone and start my own bakery. It has been a dream for 20 years and now I am qualified I have the confidence to pursue that dream. Business plan done, loan in place and premises located. My intention is to recruit a baker that has some post qualification experience and a mixed team of young apprentices and mature staff. 

My point is, you are never too old to start again. your desire to succeed will overcome your thoughts of starting at the bottom.. If you are as good as you say you are then you will progress quickly. 

Good luck and I hope you find an employer who will appreciate all your talents.


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

Now how refreshing is that?  Thank you so much for your support and I applaud you for getting right out there.  I feel I need a few years of practical experience working in a restaurant before I embark on a solo venture, but when I see people like you bringing a dream into fruition, I scratch my head and think maybe...I can, too, one day.  But in the meantime, I have an interview at a major hotel chain in the banquet kitchen.  

I don't know exactly which position it'll be, but I'm sure I'll do great in whatever it is.


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## ingyh (May 25, 2014)

Your'e welcome, 

Good luck with the interview. Might I suggest that you don't labour the point about your previous experience. The previous poster is correct in saying that all employers want team players and not individuals who challenge authority. Once you have the experience you can say what you want. At an interview you need to tell them what they want to hear. Then prove you can do it. Once you get your foot in the door you can express yourself more freely.


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

I should have rephrased my topic question and explained with more clarity.  What I meant to ask was since I DO have the experience prior to school, but most students do not, will I be treated like I can't slice, dice, boil?

Do you know what I mean?  For instance, she hires a recent graduate whose only cooking experience was school.  She hires a mature woman, also a recent graduate, but has years of experience IS NOT BUCKING AUTHORITY, and does not need remedial lessons on how to slice, dice, boil.  Will I still be treated as if I don't have any skills?  Will I be talked down to?  Will I be guided around the kitchen and be re-introduced to pots and pans?  Will she repeat the name of an item and explain it to me as if I don't already know it?   

Is that a little clearer?  Also, let me reiterate my last thought, I would never walk into a professional or any situation bragging about my skills.  I would let them know that once they tell me when, where, why, and how to do something, they can rest assured it will get done.  And that's with respect for authority, too.


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## caribou (May 25, 2014)

Etherial: Thought I would share with you my similar experience and ask you a few questions.   After traveling, obtaining several degrees and working, decided to do what I really wanted to do and went to beauty school.  I, like you, was enthusiastic, on time and graduated early, etc, etc.  The next step was to pass the license exam and get a job.  Passing the exam was easy… getting a job was a joke.   I am a former model, so had no problem with the requirement for looking the part; however, in the beauty business, just as the culinary world, employers are looking for experience.  You past life and what you did in school is irrelevant.   You're going to be low man on the totem pole and the only part of your CV that counts is the experience you have actually working in your field.  Nothing else matters.  

Here are my questions for you:  why in the world would you WANT to work for someone else?  What are you trying to prove?  If you are as good as you say you are, why waste your precious time and your excellent skills as a drone making money for someone else?  You sound as if you are a very creative person, so why have your creativity quashed, which is what will happen when you sign on to work for that kitchen experience you hope to gain?  And, once you gain that experience, what is your goal? 

If you are as good as you have described, it sounds that what you lack is confidence in yourself.  IMO, forget that little dream and dream bigger... start your own place, whatever that may be!  Specialize in something that you love to do... trust me, if you didn't like the environment in culinary school, you won't like the environment when you're a serf in someone else's kingdom.


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## caribou (May 25, 2014)

PS:  I was required to attend beauty school to be licensed.  You don't need a license to work in the culinary field.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Over the years I have hired hundreds of people with varying degrees of experience and wide ranging resumes. The one thing I have gleaned from that experience is that when a new person walks into my kitchen they are an unproved entity, no matter what skill levels are professed. Because the kitchen is under my stewardship, which is a responsibility I take very seriously, my assessment of their skill level begins immediately and determines the route taken from there.

So basic answer to your question is... initially...yes...to do otherwise is sheer folly and an invitation to run a chef's career into an iceberg. My question back to you is how would you react in a role reversal?


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/peace.gifI get it, once I prove myself, then I can gain the experience I need. So everyone has answered my questions. Believe me, I am not a prima donna and can follow even the most detailed instructions, once clarified and I have verified that I understand. I do need the experience of a professional kitchen and if I have to seek mental health advice on how not to choke the living s---t out of a line cook, then I will practice all the necessary restraint in order to get the food out properly.

As far as just opening my own place, I need the experience of a restaurant environment and good, bad, or indifferent or even making money for someone else, will aid in my own gains, if one day, I decide I'm ready to run solo.

This is very eye-opening and my journey begins now.

PS - Foodpump on the prevention of a Hollandaise sauce breaking: If it's kept over gently simmering water and is constantly monitored, all is well, but in the instance it DOES break, simply whisk in some water. That always brings it back for me./img/vbsmilies/smilies/drinkbeer.gif

Thanks, again.


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## caribou (May 25, 2014)

Etherial:  You are indeed brave!!!   I would not and did not have time nor the patience for starting at the bottom, which is why I started my own place immediately after some eye-opening interviews.  Hope to hear that you are happy and successful in achieving your culinary goal(s).   Much luck to you in your quest!


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## caribou (May 25, 2014)

PS:  My observation that you lack self confidence stands.  You probably know more than your fellow students or the people with whom you will be working... as you've said that you've been cooking for 40 years.  You will find this truth for yourself...


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

You are right that my confidence level for flying solo is actually non-existent at this time, probably due to the fact that most restaurants close within the first two years of operation, and if I'm ever going to run my own someday, I want to have the experience under my belt.

You are amazing that your confidence is soaring and I hope you succeed beyond your planned goals.  It takes a strong person to pull that off.

I can hardly wait for my interview(s) to gage the waters.

Thanks and take care.  (look at my char su bao buns and tiramisu under sugar dome in the previous posts).


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

First  DON"T knock your fellow students. Then start from there


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

I've graduated and my new career is ahead of me.  Hopefully, they too, will do well.


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

Caribou, tell me about your interviews and what opened your eyes?


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Etherial said:


> I've graduated and my new career is ahead of me. Hopefully, they too, will do well.


I have been following your posts and just want to say congratulations for achieving your goal.

About the banquet kitchen.... people either love it or hate it (repetitious) but if you can make friends with the manager in the banquet booking office much can be learned re how to go about pricing out a function and make a profit (this will translate well when/if you want to open your own place).

So go forth and conquer!

mimi


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

I'll throw in two cents here. 

First, Congratulations on following your dreams. I found this entire post to be very inspirational. A life change, especially as we get older and want to feel more settled,  is never easy and you seem to have done it well. 

As to your self employment concerns, I will offer this. 

Start planning your own business now while you work for others. As the other posters have pointed out, there will be many good things to learn about the business and about yourself but I suspect you may also get confirmation that you already know quite a lot and you will be ready to open you own place much quicker than you now expect. As someone with a military and legal background, you have already learned a lot of valuable life lessons that will translate to your new career. You may find that when working for others, knowing when to diplomatically offer an opinion and when to keep your mouth shut is the hardest part. As in the military, doing what you are told is paramount, whether or not it is the correct thing to do. 

     Yes, many restaurants close. But many stay open and whether or not yours does will depend in large part on you. As the owner of your own business, cooking will be the fun part. The good part is that you have total control. The bad part is that that translates into you having 100% responsibility. What will make the difference in your success is the ability to be completely, coldly objective about every aspect of the business while immediately and completely acknowledging your mistakes and correcting them. Rather than go on at length about all it, I'll offer this thought experiment. 

  While working for others, observe all the various problems and situations that occur on a daily basis. Taxes,( get a sales tax account at the bank) human resources, building and equipment maintenance, customer relations, food procurement and preparation, daily cleaning and trying to make a profit in spite of it all.  Then imagine having to handle all the  issues you observe and how much time it would take to manage them successfully if you owned the place you are now only employed at. 

 I am not saying you should not open your own place. Many people build successful restaurants and food service empires all the time and they do it in a variety of ways. There is no reason you can't be just as successful as anyone else. Just know that as an owner, you are never off the clock and the business will never be off your mind. 

Whatever you choose to do, Best of Luck. That counts too.


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

Wonderful advice and I agree wholeheartedly.  Should I order my own personalized uniforms or should I (when hired) wait to see if the company/establishment provides its staff with them?


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Did you mention going to a Hilton property?
Worked a function during the Christmas holidays so had occasion to use the freight elevators at a Hilton.
They opened up in the same hallway as the banquet kitchens and everyone looked alike.
My advice would be to wait until you are sure that this is the place for you.
That is unless someone wants to buy you a graduation gift .
You can always direct them to the website with that jacket I know you have had your eye on 
Make sure they spell your name right lol.

mimi


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

Ask if uniforms will be provided. they most likely will be. An embroidered jacket is nice for personal use but may be frowned on in any situation where the company is trying to maintain a certain corporate appearance. And as flipflopgirl pointed out, get someone else to buy it as a gift.


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## ingyh (May 25, 2014)

Chefwriter, you are absolutely correct in your advice in starting your own business. Yes there may have been a career change but the experience you gain working for other employers is invaluable. You take what is good and dismiss what you believe was bad.. The human resource experience, through recruitment to managing performance is invaluable. This experience is seriously lacking when an inexperienced operator goes it alone with no previous business experience. This is why franchising is so successful, it plays on the lack of experience from an unsuspecting investor. With 10 years experience working for a large international restaurant chain as a franchise operations manager, I have seen new entrepreneurs struggle with lack of restaurant experience and look to the franchisor for help, which they get, but what they gain in assistance they lose in autonomy. 

The experience you gain from working in a restaurant whether front or back of house is invaluable. I too often see amazing chefs with no business experience, human resource or financial management experience who struggle from day one. They often find themselves dragged from the kitchen and spend more time doing paperwork and working long hours to keep their restaurant operating successfully.

I would say to anyone looking to start their own business, go and work in all aspects of restaurant management, even voluntary. A number of places offer work experience. 

To Etherial I would use the opportunity to work in a hotel, which is very different to a small restaurant and use the experience to improve your skills and experience the faster pace. Take what you can from it and then move on to somewhere that will offer the opportunity to learn a new skill.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

In addition to what Ingyh wrote, I have a few caveats about opening your own business as well.  My thoughts on this are based on my personal experience of owning/operating two businesses during the last 18 years.

1) Get to know your "money bags".  In most cases this would be your financial institution.  What is their knee-jerk reaction to proposals for restaurants/food service industries?  What kind of a business plan are they looking for?  How detailed? Are they looking for prior working experience in the industry? Basic accounting skills?

2) Get to know a real estate agent.  What kind of places are available?  What kind of rent? Leases?  What does "triple net" mean?  What does your municipality require for parking? General building infrastructure? Handicapped access? Specific restaurant plumbing and fire codes?


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

Cute.  I'm redoing my resume now.  I think working in a banquet kitchen will help me gain professional experience and make me a better cook.  I haven't had the luxury of pondering opening my own business yet, not to say it's has not been dancing around in my head for some time, but realistically, I think baby steps are in order for me.

As the many posters have advised, don't over-emphasize my experience, even though I want them to realize they're not hiring someone who knew absolutely nothing about the culinary field, except for television shows.  I believe the only sure way I can get my point across is to DEMONSTRATE a finished product with consistency.

You ever instruct someone to do something and be amazed at the proficiency they've demonstrated?  Well, that's what I'll do.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Exactly what I would do.
Quietly blow them away.
Again, congrats and much good luck with your first position.
I learned the biz from a Hilton banquet mgr.
More than that he gave me permission to be a strong woman in a room full of powerfull men.

mimi


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## caribou (May 25, 2014)

Etherial:  You are getting a lot of smoke blown your way.   I will be the voice of reason and reality.  You are out to prove to whomever (???) that you are just as good as whomever (???) and to do that, you will work your tail off working in a banquet facility preparing apps, entrees, desserts etc by rote. 

By working for someone else, you will find that you are wasting your very precious time.  You are not a fresh-faced 20-yr-old who has no experience... work or life.  Time to that 20-yr-old is much different than time is to an over-35-yr-old, which from your photo shows that you fit that category.  You have to ask yourself:  What exactly is my goal??  If it is to prove to others that you can do the job as well as any other culinary school grad, then you've accomplished that goal on day one of your banquet job.  If your goal is to work the banquet job as a route to get to your real goal of opening your own establishment, then you are fooling yourself.

YOUR time spent under the "guidance" of a banquet manager could be spent more wisely opening your own place**, cooking YOUR specialties, pocketing that $$$ and learning more quickly than anyone else could teach you the ins and outs of running your own show.  You are looking at others because you are scared.  You are looking at your banquet boss to be impressed with your skills.  You are looking  and looking, because you are not confident enough to take stock of your own greatness.  You already have the skills and the enthusiasm.  Your skills will be used by your new place of employment while your enthusiasm slips away as you prepare another boring pan of scalloped potatoes for 300 people.  

There is nothing wrong with being afraid of the unknown; however, you should consider where your first step into the unknown is directed and where your time will be spent to your advantage.  You know that you have it within you, but you are fearful of making a mistake and you believe that by working for someone else that they will have your best interests in mind.  That's a risk, so why not take a risk on yourself.  Think about it!!!

**YOUR OWN PLACE:  Does not necessarily mean a restaurant.  Think about what you really, really love creating; focus on those items.  People will seek you out and spend $$$ if your items are delicious and made with your enthusiasm!!


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

I think you have us pegged wrong, Caribou.  Those of us who work for ourselves have a different view of things, and we want to be very clear and frank with the OP about this.

Working professionally, and by this I mean working exclusively in the kitchen with no back-up jobs or other financial means is not really about cooking, and not always about doing what you want to do.  It's all about generating enough cash to keep things moving.  Cooking is the fun part, and the fun is short lived, the hard part is getting customers, and getting money from customers.  Now for instance when I opened my own place up, I focused on cakes because that's what I liked to do, and only dabbled with chocolate.  6 mths later I had to convert the cake display case to a chocolate case and streamlined my cake selection down to 3 varieties, and upped my bon-bon selection to 23 and developed a line of bars.  It's not what I had intended to do, but I make what the customers want, and that is one of the most important things to learn when you are working for yourself.

I have no intentions of blowing smoke up anyone's skirt, and if you look at my posts since 2009, I offer some very realistic advice on everything from convection ovens, to pate en croute, to formulating ganache recipies.  The hospitality business is cut-throat and the majority of new places--regardless of the size-- don't make it past the 1st year.  Reality sucks.

If the OP had started and grew their own construction or accounting business, or even their own clothing store business, were successful, and then decided to change careers to cooking or baking, and wanted to have their own place, I'd feel comfortable telling them to go ahead.  With that kind of a background, they know what kind of stuff city hall wants in regards to fire, health, and even parking codes, they know what triple net rent means, they know why it's worthwhile to pay a lawyer to read a lease, or draw up a standard catering contract form, and know what banks want to see in business proposals.

Just last week I visited the most depressing place yet--a used food equipment store.  For those who don't know, used equipment dealers won't buy equipment unless they can make at least 300% markup on it.  So here's this 4' sandwich table in the fridge section of the store, maybe less than a year old and priced at just 10% under a brand new one.  To make your heart sink even lower, the shelving still had lableing tape stickers from the previous owner: "Sliced smoked chicken breast only" and "Sundried tomato pesto in 1/9'th inserts only".  Another one down, I felt like a cannibal just looking at it....


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

Caribou, I'm definitely not an insecure person, facing the "real world" and while I don't have the desire to own a restaurant right now, my age has provided me with common sense. It would be foolish of me to put myself in debt to prove what to whom? That I can cook? We already know that. What we don't know is how well I can produce large volumes under pressure. How well I supervise a kitchen staff, how well I execute my goal of someday running a professional kitchen and how long?

My age has also grants me the realistic views on life and to realize that I am still a recent grad and despite my civilian-cooking experience, a professional kitchen is not a residential one. There is no crime in the desire to impress my employer with dedication and hard work and the last time I checked, those traits led directly to company advancement. Hey, I wouldn't mind being the Executive Banquet Chef for a Hilton Chain. Hell no. No one said I was going to stay there forever, but in case I do, it's my journey. No one else's.

Good for you that you have the entrepreneurship in your spirit, I also applaud your enthusiasm, but I have excellent credit and opening up a restaurant of my own because I don't want to make someone else money is an exercise in a new kind of stupid. I sincerely hope your place works out for you and you make all the money you want. Maybe, I'll see you on tv and say "I knew her when."

I love being 58 because being wise and learning something every day is an unknown, and it's up to me to uncover the layers as the day progresses to see if it is exactly what I want it to be. I embrace that feeling every day. Thank God I am not a 20 year old, but if push comes to shove, I can damn sure give 'em a run for their money and, if necessary, run roughshod; but it isn't necessary. My skills will get me where I need to be. I have the good sense to come in out of the rain.

Do you?


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## dreamshards8 (Dec 2, 2013)

I love how you ask for advice then spend most of the topic defending yourself.


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

*The interview was a joke! * They outsource everything from bakery goods (just heat and serve to guests) to meals. Nothing is made there. He said they can't afford to pay someone to make the food and spent 40 minutes talking about what he does and what he did in life. Said he is in charge of everything in the hotel Said they have two sous chefs. Really? All I saw was a staff of the usual underpaid workers walking around the hotel. The staff was welcoming, but something didn't feel right there.

The manager I met with, began the interview telling me several different stories and one was about how they needed the beignets hot and ready for the customer and how the powdered sugar should be sprinkled on each one at the right time or they would be ruined, so they ordered them from the best local bakery in town. I then asked why they just didn't make and serve them in batches and he said the hotel does not make their own breads or entrees. They buy them from a bakeries and supermarkets.

I spent 40 minutes listening to him talk about himself and how benefits outweigh salary. One question he asked me was what I was looking for within two years, and I replied that I would hope to be sous by then and that I was looking for a "home" in a company. Said Fall is the busiest and asked if I would I be interested in "interning" or production work?

Isn't that what his present staff already does without a formal education? Why would I? He said he thought I was graduating next year. Don't see how that's even possible because we've run into him at numerous charity events and we've told him my graduation date and he kept telling me to "call me". He kept sending messages by my husband to "tell your wife to call me".

i was 15 minutes early and even brought my knives just in case he wanted me perform any demo cuts. He a;so told me he has a certificate in culinary arts and that his wife is a gourmet cook. I didn't get that impression from either of them and I've met her at charity events, too and her persona screamed "housewife".

I don't think I've ever heard of a well-known hotel chain outsourcing everything like that before. With all of those credentials, why are outsourcing the food? He leaned forward slightly, (as if letting me in on a top secret invention) "they've progressed in food so much, we're getting the vacuum sealed portions" and I said, "oh, you mean sous vide style of cooking", and he couldn't even pronounce it, but said you just drop it in boiling water and pour it on the plate.

He confused boil & bag food with sous vide. I don't think he knew that you season and cook your products prior to vacuum sealing it, placing in temperature controlled cooking water, and, if needed, finish them to get a crust on it. He was actually proud that the food he was talking about comes pre-cooked and frozen. Geez.

In my honest opinion, it was a joke and I'm never calling him for work. There's got to be something out there for me!


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

DREAMSHARD 8:  When I get nonsensical advice,  I don't defend; I speak my truth.  Just because someone gives you advice, doesn't make it useable advice.  Take what you need and leave the rest for someone else.

Not all advice is good advice.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Didn't you say this was a Hilton brand you were going to?

Conrad must be rolling in his grave.

So so sad.

mimi


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

So, for all intents and purposes, this was your first interview for f/t cooking?

Now, don't get the idea I'm offering any advice here, but how will you handle future interviews where you are asked to do  an 8 hr shift "stage" before a decision can  be made to hire or not?


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Etherial said:


> *The interview was a joke!...*I spent 40 minutes listening to him talk about himself...


A few years ago after returning from the Caribbean I was on the job hunt circuit and did more interviews than I care to remember. I was totally amazed by how many interviews were conducted exactly as you described. To me it is usually indicative of the company culture and to my way of thinking, not in a good way.

The one time I ignored the warning bells in my head after such an interview and took the proffered job, it did not turn out well. After about three months, it was obvious that we were not a good fit. After a mutually agreed separation, I was once back on the job hunt circuit and subjecting myself to more such interviews, but this time hopefully with lesson learned.


Etherial said:


> Not all advice is good advice.


A mentor once told me that offering unsolicited advice is an exercise in futility because a wise man doesn't need it and a foolish man won't take it. He went on to say that instead of offering advice, talk about your experiences.


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

Yes, yes, good advice is worth its weight in necessity.  

Foodpump:  Did this happen to you?  Believe it or not, I simply love doing things like that.  If someone has the time to watch me prove to them what I am capable of bringing to the table (no pun intended), then I don't see a problem with a few stages.  I hope to God not everyone will try to finagle cheap labor out of me.  They'll probably get it anyway when they hire me..., but who knows?  Who was that that had to kiss a lot of frogs before she found her prince?  Was it Snow White?

You should have seen my table presentation for my final.  The school did not provide centerpieces, so I went outside to the garden and cut about a dozen rosemary branches and lavendar.  I put them in a metal water picture with white kerchief.  My table was beautiful with linens, plates, and silverware.  I was on it and this was done WITHOUT my team...who were not available to assist me.  I received a 4.0 in my final semester.

In any case, I have a job offer from a married couple who happen to be doctors and their cook quit and went back home overseas or something.  They were at one of our youth sports' pool parties and the wife was afraid to approach me because she thought it would insult me, if she asked about me making their dinners during the week.

What do I charge?  If I cook at my home and pack, who pays the fuel bill useage?  Do I need a questionnaire of their diet likes and dislikes?  Allergies?  Lowfat/Highprotein? Do I open up a business bank account?  How do I pay taxes?  Questions, questions, questions.

A friend of a friend (a private chef) works for a very, very influential family (can't mention the name) and they just hand her the Blaque Card and she shops; no budget limit.  She brings scraps of filet back to her restaurant and they resell it in the form of other dishes.  They've even called her and told her to pack for a month in Tuscany or a last minute dinner for 20 at their mansion.  

Okay, the big question, shouldn't I get restaurant experience first before I venture into my final cooking choice, which is to be a personal/private chef?

Thanks


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## ocarolina1 (May 8, 2014)

Good for you! I believe that it is never too late to get a culinary degree. I graduated a few years ago from culinary school at the age of 45. I was one of the eldest in my classes, and was taking it much more seriously than the young kids I went to class with. I have been cooking all my life too, and my story (minus the army- thanks for your service) could be the same as you. Watching Julia, Jacques, Yan, and Frugal gourmet as I grew up - on PBS - the only source for cooking shows back then. Unfortunately, most people here are right. Unless you have professional kitchen experience, you are no different than the 22 year old. I have found that I will get offered the job before the 22 year old, because they know that I am more serious and dependable, but I started out just like the young people. I worked for the absolute best chefs as an intern for one year, and they were relatively close to my age (one was 15 years younger LOL) yet I was their intern. It is all relative. I love cooking, and have worked in restaurants, and ran my parents' bagel shop - baking and managing - yet I am still at the bottom of the ladder. Unless you open your own business, you have to work your way up just like everyone else. All of our years of home cooking make no impact on our resumes now. I am just about to start a job locally that hopefully will give me more opportunities down the road, but I knew that I would have to work my way up.

I wish you all the best, and sincerely hope that you can move up the ladder quickly. Most importantly, after a few career changes, I believe that if you love what you do, you will never "work" a day in your life. money is not everything, which is why I am doing what I love and not caring about the $$$. Best wishes to you. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/chef.gif


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Etherial said:


> Okay, the big question, shouldn't I get restaurant experience first before I venture into my final cooking choice, which is to be a personal/private chef?


Should a person who wants to be a restaurant chef get personal/private chef before venturing into their final choice?

To what end springs the idea of gaining restaurant experience first?

Work experience of any kind is never a bad idea and is all valuable if viewed in a proper light but not the shortest nor required way to a destination. Depends upon the driver.

Putting that aside, I believe that I could transition to being a personal/private chef easier than a personal/private chef could transition into being a restaurant chef. Means nothing one way or the other, but there you have it.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Restaurant experience teaches you to tricks of the trade.  There are short cuts to frenching a rack of lamb, short cuts to peeling potatoes, and quick ways to make puff pastry.  You also get a chance to find your style, your strong points, and your personal work and organizational strengths.


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

Bottom of the barrel, lowest on the totem pole, the newbie, etc.  I don't have a problem with those "dues" I will have to pay.  I just didn't want to be led around the kitchen as if I had no experience at all.

The question I was trying to pose originally was if I can demonstrate I know my way around a kitchen (school counts, because I had to hustle to get food out to customers for two years), and am willing to start through the normal routes and prove myself, will I still be guided around the kitchen like I have no experience at all?

No one has answered this yet.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Etherial said:


> The question I was trying to pose originally was if I can demonstrate I know my way around a kitchen... will I still be guided around the kitchen like I have no experience at all?
> 
> No one has answered this yet.





cheflayne said:


> Over the years I have hired hundreds of people with varying degrees of experience and wide ranging resumes. The one thing I have gleaned from that experience is that when a new person walks into my kitchen they are an unproved entity, no matter what skill levels are professed. Because the kitchen is under my stewardship, which is a responsibility I take very seriously, my assessment of their skill level begins immediately and determines the route taken from there.
> 
> So basic answer to your question is... initially...yes...to do otherwise is sheer folly and an invitation to run a chef's career into an iceberg. My question back to you is how would you react in a role reversal?





cheflayne said:


> The one thing I have gleaned from that experience is that when a new person walks into my kitchen they are an unproved entity, no matter what skill levels are professed.





cheflayne said:


> So basic answer to your question is... initially...yes...


In my kitchen the answer to your question is yes. Due to the length of time I have been doing this, the speed of my assessment of your skills is usually fairly rapid and pretty much spot. Not bragging just relating basic reality of being a new hire, in my kitchen at least.


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## ocarolina1 (May 8, 2014)

I would assume that having a culinary degree means that no one will be holding your hand.  Where I went to school - they did not even do that there.  My previous jobs were lacking training, and I was left to figure many things out on my own.  I would assume that is pretty common most places.  Why don't you just start interviewing places and see what is out there?   I turned down many job offers since January because they were not what I was looking for.  I start a new job shortly and I am hoping that I have the same kind of freedoms that I have found at other places.  No boss/chef wants to waste time following you around if you know what you are doing.


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

Well, whatever I am blessed with, will be.


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## chefbuba (Feb 17, 2010)

Etherial said:


> Bottom of the barrel, lowest on the totem pole, the newbie, etc. I don't have a problem with those "dues" I will have to pay. I just didn't want to be led around the kitchen as if I had no experience at all.
> 
> The question I was trying to pose originally was if I can demonstrate I know my way around a kitchen (school counts, because I had to hustle to get food out to customers for two years), and am willing to start through the normal routes and prove myself, will I still be guided around the kitchen like I have no experience at all?
> 
> No one has answered this yet.


Bottom line, you have no experience in a PROFESSIONAL KITCHEN. Forget about the 40 years of watching Julia and Jacques and hosting amazing dinner parties at home.

Employers want relevant experience. Yes having a good history of cooking at home may help you as you progress but it means nothing to me as an employer.

When you can work the line with three other guys/gals and rock out 400 dinners through the night and not choke or execute a banquet for 1000.

Bottom line, you know what you were taught at culinary school, you are not a chef or executive chef regardless of what the admissions people told you at school. Cooking is a trade, go out and learn it. Don't tell an employer "that's not the way we learned how to do it in school", you won't last long.

Right or wrong, you are getting paid to do it their way.


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

Chef Bubba, I would never even consider entertaining such arrogance to a prospective employer.  I am well aware of my status and what I was taught in school has only garnered me the right to say, "I am now qualified to enter the kitchen.  Will you train me?".   Also, if an employer is willing to give me a fair chance to work my way up, that's all I'm asking for.

I will chop onions for a few hours a day, pluck parsley, cut up chickens, or take on a steward's position; those tasks mean, I am on my way. I understand everything you and most everyone has said, and as a prospective employer, with a business at stake I, too, would protect my investment.

No worries; I am all over it.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Etherial said:


> The question I was trying to pose originally was if I can demonstrate I know my way around a kitchen (school counts, because I had to hustle to get food out to customers for two years), and am willing to start through the normal routes and prove myself, will I still be guided around the kitchen like I have no experience at all?
> 
> No one has answered this yet.


With all new hires--regardless of the amount of experience they have--I will walk them through a process or recipie. For instance, say puff heads: "The dough is mixed to window pane and rested covered for at least 1 hr. Then we do two double tours with at least 20 mins rest between, then a single, then rest overnight and the following day two doubles and you're done."

Regardless of what you have learned in school or from other employers, we do things in my kitchen my way. My customers have the right to expect the same thing they had last time, and I have the right to keep my food cost under control.

Last summer I had a buddy from Switzerland come over to visit me. Same age as me, we did our apprenticeships at the same time and went to school together for 3 years. He now owns his own bakery outside of Luzern. He came into my kitchen and wanted to get his hands dirty. He asked how to make certain recipies--stuff that he's done a zillion times in his own shop, and I explained, in point form, of how I wanted it.

Just part of life in the kitchen


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Etherial said:


> Bottom of the barrel, lowest on the totem pole, the newbie, etc. I don't have a problem with those "dues" I will have to pay. I just didn't want to be led around the kitchen as if I had no experience at all.
> 
> The question I was trying to pose originally was if I can demonstrate I know my way around a kitchen (school counts, because I had to hustle to get food out to customers for two years), and am willing to start through the normal routes and prove myself, will I still be guided around the kitchen like I have no experience at all?
> 
> No one has answered this yet.


In short, yes. You will be. When I was in charge of personnel I would allow the new hire one task to screw up. I noted on another thread, a $10 steak that comes back to the kitchen is a $25 steak you can't sell plus an added cost of another $10 steak.


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## etherial (Sep 22, 2013)

Okay, question finally answered.  I'm a willing candidate.  No questions asked.  I follow directions to a T and I take cooking very seriously.  I have the passion, energy, and dedication it takes to excel in this profession.  I will treat every day as another day in an extended classroom; no matter how much experience I gain.

Thanks.


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## playing in hay (Apr 16, 2015)

Very interesting discussion. Basically we all have goals and life takes different directions for some. Most students these days have councillors, special group sessions, support and all other types of career guidance services at their disposal, a career is a right and they have all the tools and services at their disposal to pick any career and be certain that is what they will do without much more than a hiccup.

Now go back 30-40 years to the 70's - 80's or whatever, back then at least in my small town school we had 2 choices, go all the way through school and study really boring subjects like maths, science, English, etc with maybe Physical education or Art thrown in for something off beat and hangout with geeks and teachers pets.  The other choices was just be realistic and leave while your young and get a job while you can, be able to hang out with your mates and enjoy life instead of been institutionalized. I would have not had it any other way personally, back then education was damn boring and sterile, not like today with all the great resources offered and really nice schools etc.  There were no career councillors then, if they were there they were difficult to access. For me, I had a chance to go do something I loved with my Dad even through it was manual and unpredictable job.

Back then it was almost unheard of for a guy to take cooking classes in my small town school unless you did not mind been branded a sissy, poofter, or pansy. Gay wasn't even a word in that sense back then lol. You either did engineering, woodworking and played football or you were a girl. Simple as that.

My first job only lasted for a year or so and I then just picked up various jobs over the years including everything from stocking supermarket shelves to installing gas into cars. Fast forward a decade and a half and I was now in the biggest city and I needed any job to pay my way. I got my first job in hospitality, yep you guessed it "dishwashing". I worked there for sometime and made friends with the chef who was younger than me. We became good friends and partied hard most nights after work. I would watch him cook the Italian pasta dishes super fast with all the pans at his station and put out the orders in the tiny kitchen with super fast speed but of good quality. I became more involved as well, doing prep and salads. I observed and always thought I could do that if I had the right place and chance to learn.

I eventually found another café that wanted an assistant cook so I go that job. I watched and learned but noticed most of the staff were not very experienced, the waiters/waitresses were also helping in the somewhat disorganised or neglected kitchen. The chef was well trained, cooked in royal circles in England but obviously was not interested in the job but I was glad to have had the chance to work and learn a little from him. He never turned up one very busy Saturday morning for breakfast, I was now in charge of 100+ peoples breakfasts. At first it was a little chaotic but with the waiter, waitress and myself we worked as a team and got the food out without any serious complaints.

From there I worked in some nice restaurants and cafes for a couple of more years. I was in a grill restaurant working as a 2nd and 3rd chef but the head chef had bad work ethics to my standards, over salted and boiled everything, waisted good parts of the produce and was not very organized. I could not work like that any more so I moved onto other things after some other issues there too. Looking back now I should have just gone to another restaurant as that place was not good to work at.

I had no training but over the years since I have done a lot of writing and research on cuisine while working in other fields or just traveling. With some long term goals in mind I decided to get back into a kitchen recently and it was a little daunting as my last proper job in the industry was a long time ago. The scary thing for me was how the industry had changed now to much higher standards and many more people in the industry who were probably a lot more qualified and trained than me. I at least had some experience in the past though and I had learned a lot more about cuisine since than I ever did when I was working. I got a couple of small trials and such without a problem as there are lots of restaurants here. I was nearly about to give up thinking they must think I'm too old (even though I don't look it) or they only want students etc, or maybe I looked slow after trying out a couple of places but had to deal with extremely arrogant chefs and not securing the jobs.

But I was happy to get a job recently at a place that was really nice to work at, friendly vibe and no arrogant chefs plus a well organized kitchen. So it's important to not feel discouraged from age as some employers will use their brain and realize they can train someone for 20 or more years before they get our experiences, skills and knowledge that is very important even if it was not always working in a busy restaurant. In fact I see this as positive as we have not been burned out, I'm as keen as I ever was. I bet if I had slaved over hot kitchens all throughout the 70's, 80's, 90's, 2000's + the last thing I would be wanting to do now is to be in a restaurant. That is not a bad thing, I see it as positive. We have been spending those years doing other things and learning many other skills we can bring to the kitchen. I did think about going to school but decided against it as I just don't have 2 years to spare at this late stage in my life. I had already learned all the basics and the things I would learn at school, I was not going to spend 2 years to get a piece of paper even if it would mean It would help a lot in this industry. I decided to give it a go without school and it has not been a problem really. My long term goal is to have my own business and that will be in less than 5 years after I gain more experience working for others. It could be a lot less, we will see.

Most chefs that are burnt out have no creative flair, they have little passion left to create amazing menus inspired from travel like we have or those life experiences they never had slaving over hot pots year after year in old kitchens of the past. I have travelled all around parts of the world for many years, cooking meals from a coconut and a fish on a tropical island or scraping together recipes for a family from 3 or 4 unknown ingredients etc etc with no water, stove or light. I had to improvise and learn to make with what I had on hand. Explain all this to some student and you will get mainly "rabbit in headlights" stares. . This is not to say they are stupid, far from it, many of the young people I have worked with recently are very smart and have lots of ability. I can learn a lot from them to, things like music, energy, fresh perspectives, trends or whatever, everyone brings something to the table we can all share and learn from.

Of course I would not be working at a restaurants this late in my life if it was not for a good reason, it's certainly not to please any bosses or wipe anyones assess. I have my own goals but to get to those goals I have to get past a few steps first and please the people above me. It's nice to get opportunities and you want to pay back that person who gives you a chance with a high work ethic....

Anyway I have to go for now, I will read some more of these posts too soon, cheers


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Oh yeah, this thread.....

This one was started by a culinary school graduate that was a career changer. She insisted that she had "over 30 years" cooking experience, but had never worked in a commercial kitchen, ever, and insisted that cooking was the same as a waitressing job she did did 25 years prior. She would argue with anyone that told her different than what she wanted to hear. What arguements! Everything but cooking played a role

Brings back memories, this post.....


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## fablesable (Oct 11, 2014)

@foodpump I took the time to read all the posts and all I can say is.....OY!!! There is some time spent I will never get back. Although I did get some great eye rolling and head shaking exercise so that is positive /img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif


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