# Was I Wrong ?



## ldts60 (Feb 9, 2005)

Teacher had grade A Foie Gras and smoked it,I made the comment that Escoffier was rolling in his grave and that I don't recall this as a classical method of preparation according to L.C.B. 
Boy ! was I put on the dodo list .BUT IT FELT SO GOOD!! 
Mind you this was said in passing to a classmate and the teacher was eaves dropping ....TRUTH HURTS 
Is there a perfect production schedule list because my teacher loves giving them for homework and if she doesn't like it it's a re-do and I have asked for an example of what she is looking for and IT say's to figure it out it states "Have people around you read it if they can understand the process going on then I'ts acceptable " I have my parents and my daughters 6 year old classmates read it they understand it why doesn't it?


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## ccase39 (Mar 22, 2005)

If we all stuck to the classical methods of production without deviation I imagine our profession would be pretty boring. After all I doubt Escoffier himself had access to the wide variety of produce and ingredients we do today. So maybe smoked foie gras with lets say carmalized pineapple and fried duck prosciutto may sound wierd, but its simply flavors that classicaly pair together well inspired by a simple thanksgiving dinner (smoked ham with pineapples stuck to them with a toothpick,hardly fine dining) and made into a dish that is tasty, creative and marketable. Jiust an opinion.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

How exactly was it smoked? Cured and smoked? Cold smoked?

In any case, I would never do any of that to foie gras.


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## chefrbruno (Feb 23, 2005)

You were wrong! Obviously you're a student, and granted you made the comment to another student in passing, but, your instructor heard you and you were wrong. It's not that foie gras shouldn't be smoked, that's not the issue here, as far as I'm concerned. It's the fact that you made a sarcastic comment that should have been kept to yourself. You have to understand that she, chef, never "It" (that continues to show a negative image of yourself) is the instructor and no matter what you might think of her, she still deserves your respect. She earned the right to be called "chef", I suspect one day you will too. Don't get me wrong, I love the enthusiasm, but you were out of line. Just my opinion, for what its worth.


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## ldts60 (Feb 9, 2005)

The problem is that L.C.B. only pushes the classical way and my food god's
are Mark Peel and Alain Ducasse ......So I'm not very closed minded when it comes to food pairing I'm just at the wrong school .Plus she pan smoked it with wood chips...A Jasmine Tea pan smoking and say a Lychee reduction would have said more to me .(just an opinion) .


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## ldts60 (Feb 9, 2005)

Chef Bruno,
This particular Chef is very intimidating when you ask for more time to copy notes the Chef likes to sigh and make snide remarks and she has actually called people stupid .
When she gives re-do after re-do to the point of no return and I was not the
only one there were many i.e. production schedules .
Sorry I refuse to be called stupid because she refused to give an example.
In the real world I can give 2 weeks notice at school that's not always an option and I have worked and studied in the devils kitchen.
She was a little Chinese lady , trained at the L.C.B. in Paris and worked out of the Savoy Hotel in London she was like John Housman in the Paper Chase her favorite punishment for talking during lecture was ..............
" Fine , since you are so well versed on this dish please go make it and you will be graded by your peers and then you will go to the other Chef's and have them grade you and when all was done she asked "What did you learn? " In all this Chef I have now is cruel and not a teacher and I resent ever having to be in her kitchen and respect is earned not assumed just because you have a title.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Sometimes chefs are too sensitive... they're like "OMG I'm the be all and end all culinary god I sure as heck cannot be wrong!" Gimme a break. The kind of crap professors get in college goes way beyond a little remark here and there. This chef needs to develop a thicker skin and not wear the title on her sleeve.

Nobody is wrong, nobody is right. People just need to have their ego checked once in awhile. Both students and instructors, heck, chefs and customers, critics, dishwashers, everyone.


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## ccase39 (Mar 22, 2005)

I have read some of your other posts and it seems like to put it mildly you are not fond of school. It seems that you spend a great deal of time pointing fingers and proclaiming everyone is wrong and you are right. you are very eagar to point out how much you know, so what are you doing in school. It seems like you have a strong grasp of the fundamentals so why not leave and continue your career. In doing so you will probably make easier for yourself, your teachers, and your classmates. As a matter of fact Ive had one of you in just about everyone of my classes and when you did leave the classroom dynamics changed for the better.


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## ldts60 (Feb 9, 2005)

Always respect your dishwasher.........And yes we should all step off the pedestal It keeps us humble. :chef:


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## ldts60 (Feb 9, 2005)

Fortunately or unfortunately I was raised around boring private hospital kithchen's (boring as far as food goes)It was the drop off place for me when my Grandfather had to do his rounds and so instead of sitting in a corner coloring I put on a hairnet and apron and learned how to cook .From there I went to culinary school well the school I was attending closed and from there I started catering ,got married,had a child and got a divorce from there I went back to school ............My, my, what 8 years can do.
When I first started culinary school we had to take an exam on basic kitchen knowledge,What does it mean to quarter an apple?Write out the recipe for instant oatmeal ? Product I.D. it was a method that worked it helped to separate the wheat from chaff. 
When I started P.C.1 back in August and everyone was giving the 
" Why I'm Going To Culinary School " speech out of 30 people only 5 said it was because they love the art the other 25 said money or to be the next
celebrity chef........How dreamy. 
So CCASE39 your right I do need to get out in the real world and I'm sorry my pissy attitude offends your senses but this is where I go to sound off and get answers for the frustration I feel I actually learn more from all of you than I learn from school and I am very grateful for all of your wisdom.
Sincerely,
ldts60


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## mikeb (Jun 29, 2004)

The chef I learned most from was a crazy french chef... He would constantly yell, swear, insult people, etc... Arguing with him was impossible, because he was always right (although occasionally there would be misunderstanding due to language issues), even if at the time I thought I was right. But at the same time he was extremely knowledgable, and very helpful if you asked. Also the most passionate chef I've ever met. 

Anyhow, I think it definitely was a mistake on your part. Sometimes the crazy chefs are the ones you can learn most from. Even if you don't agree with their methods, you can still learn from them. Now you might not be able to learn all you could have had you been more open-minded... 

Even from your description of the chef she seems reasonable, I don't know what your problem is...

BTW, there is alot more to cooking than classic French technique...


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## ccase39 (Mar 22, 2005)

Takes alot more than a pissy attitude to offend me. Besides im pissier than you. have fun good luck


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## ccase39 (Mar 22, 2005)

I dont mean to be a hard a-- but really what happens when you wake up one day and one of these emiril loving money hungry wannabes comes up with something so good that a ray from the pope himself beems upon it. you would realize that while you were complaining others were learning and actually being taught. been there it sux


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

I have to agree with the majority around here. You should have kept quiet. You have no place second guessing a teacher. As for respect, you are right respect must be earned, but on the other hand, you as a student need to show respect to your chef/instructor whether you respect them or not. You don't know how many times, as a young cook, I thought a chef was crazy for doing something, only years later to realize what a great idea it was. Im not saying that always happens, but you need to be open-minded enough to, at least, consider the idea, and you need to be humble enough to accept the fact that this, and other chefs you will study under, know a whole lot more than you do. Right now as a young cook it is your responsibility to suck up as much information as you can. As you get older, in this industry, and have more experience, then you can start sorting through all you have learned and start to develop your own style.


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## ldts60 (Feb 9, 2005)

To : ccase39 
Hey! I can always use the good swift kick in the a** ,and you win hands down when it comes to pissy,or as my classmates would say "Your all that and a bag a chips!"
Thank You!


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## ldts60 (Feb 9, 2005)

mikeb Some of my best teachers are dishwashers ,line cooks,and little old ladies .
and I would take a screaming psycho.french chef that gave answers ,my chef did not 
the only way she would answer was by throwing up her arms and state "Fine do whatever you want ! Note: The statement or question was as simple as.....
So and so doesn't know what a Cobb Salad is . Very reasonable attitude


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

Most of those screaming, psycho french chefs don't give answers. Usually their response is "Do this way because I told you to!!!" It was up to you to find out the whys.


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## lukeygina (Mar 28, 2005)

I'm quite new here but if you read my intro you will note that I come from being in the military... I think knowing when to run my mouth is something that the military taught me well and it will help me in the business.

All and all you need to respect the time and dedication that your teacher has put in before you... She earned her title and that title deserves her respect.... Same thing as rank in the military... my supervisor was a complete *** and I hated every moment with the guy but you can bet I always addressed him as staff sergeant and always said yes sir... You don't have to respect the person; just respect the face that they are more knowledged and more experienced than you are...


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## spicypickles (Apr 8, 2005)

Hi, Im Doug and I go to school at L'Academie d' cuisine(proffesional program) outside of DC.
Anyways, getting yelled at for some reason works on me. I went back to the place I washed dishes at when I was a lad. I came back from CO after 3 years and needed a job. Anyways, I cook on the uh "line" I guess you could call it. 2 months ago I left the walkin freezer door open all night by accident, came into work the next day(this all on top of in general messing up tickets and doing stupid stuff) and I got the goods, I feared my sanity and my life,well not my life. My boss stalked me in the kitchen harrassing me for a month. After that, I havent done a single stupid thing.
Wow it sucks...but it works. School is a different beast.


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## lukeygina (Mar 28, 2005)

Spicy pickles you must have felt the boot in the butt if ya know what I mean... **** that boss must have been pissed... I understand, that stuff happens... I haven't mad too many bad mistakes in my time other than stupid stuff... No big killers on money side..


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## spicypickles (Apr 8, 2005)

the freezer was inside the walk in fridge,so I was very lucky.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

This whole thing about earning a title and respect is hogwash to me. A chef may have earned the respect of your crew in some kitchen somewhere, but come into a new kitchen and the chef needs to do it all over again. I don't care who you are, Maitre Cuisinier, CMC, whatever. You're just a person to me until you can show me otherwise. Don't mean to be blunt, but your Food TV fans may like you. I may not.

You won't even believe the kinds of things said about me in the kitchen, to my face or to someone else behind my back. I don't sit back and take that kind of lip, I prove that I'm no BS'er. Sometimes I'm wrong and I admit it, but most of the time I'm right.


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## ldts60 (Feb 9, 2005)

School is like ...."What fresh **** is this ? " I'll take being in the weeds with people that have a clue than being with the clueless !
Example: 1 week before term finals we always have some buffet day or some event that needs to be presented, we did Italian ......Morning of buffet day my fellow classmate and carpool buddy ask's ? What"s Calamari? Is it Italian? 
Mind you we had the menu a week before and the Chef went over it .(WOW)


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

Kuan, I agree with you that each and every chef needs to earn respect. They have to prove themselves, but I also feel that cooks have a duty to respect the title, Chef, and that means treating the Chef (even if they don't personally respect him) with respect. Respecting someone and showing respect are two totally different things. If your chef is that heinious that you can't respect him, at least show him the respect his title earns him. If you can't do that, then maybe you shouldn't be there. It's time to move on.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

You know how it is Pete, you've changed jobs before. Respect for a person is a little different than respect for a person as a chef.

You walk in the kitchen your first day on the job and people look at you funny. They'll make a judgement right there the first time they meet you. They're mostly sizing you up to see if you know your stuff or not. You gotta show you're not full of crap the first day, if you don't, you'll never get that kind of respect. You'll get the kind where they do things because you said so, not because it's the right thing to do.

I'm not saying you have to spend months earning the title of chef again. Experienced cooks know immediately whether someone has it or not.


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## sancyr (Apr 7, 2005)

I have a slightly different take on the student-teacher respect thing. Respect is something that you give voluntarily right? So if someone earns your respect, you respect them.

In the instance of a teacher, you gave the ENTIRE SCHOOL your respect when you decided to attend there. "I want to learn there!" I'm going on the assumption that you researched your school before you attended. You gave your respect the moment you signed your agreement to enroll. You chose to study in this school, under these teachers. That's why you should respect your teachers. Always.

Afterward, when the class is done, you always keep the knowledge you gained. But your choice as an artisan lies in whether you decide to use it.

If you feel you've made a mistake in choosing the school you did, it is YOUR mistake. You can then leave.

Just my two cents.

Sara


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

I totally agree with what you are saying Kuan. I don't expect cooks at a new place to respect me right away. I want to earn their respect. It goes a lot further than ruling by fear. But I do demand that they show me respect from Day 1, and I expect it. They can hate my guts, they can think I'm a "shoemaker" (until I prove them wrong), but I expect to be treated with a certain amount of respect due to my title. Again, there is a difference between respecting someone and showing respect. I show respect to police officers, though I may personally not respect some of them. I show respect to older chefs with years more experience than me, some of whom I think are complete hacks and I have no respect for them whatsoever, but I still show them respect, and treat them with respect.


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## redace1960 (Apr 1, 2005)

heres my 2 cents.
IDTS60, you have a right to *****. assuming you did not win your 
education on the price is right you probably paid bigtime for school.
for that kind of money, you should at the very least be able to buy 
the services of a decent teacher, not someone who can't be bothered
to help students, answer questions and..you know, TEACH, fercrissakes.
this person obviously had to know her onions and prove she knew to get 
a job, but giving good interview and being a good instructor are two
utterly different things, as you now know. 
that having been said, next time look around first before you render an 
opinion. this person is not the least of what you're going to run into out
in professional kitchen land . ps, kuan is right. respect is earned. you
have the right to choose the *** you kiss!


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## mikeb (Jun 29, 2004)

Believe me, I had to strangle every bit of info out of that chef. Most people he would yell at, curse at then fire (in the short 4 months I was there, half a dozen people were fired - experienced cooks too)... When I first started he would call me stupid almost everyday, I'd work 50-70 hours a week (salary, no hourly pay, no overtime pay), and even come in on days off. Every single day I worked I thought I was going to get fired. 

I had to show that I was interested in learning (his way), and that I would bust my *** to make sure everything is tight. Once I could show him I was very serious about being the best I can, he opened up a bit and taught me alot. 

Being sarcastic to chefs won't get you anywhere. I'm sure that your teacher has plenty to teach if only you would be more open to listening. If you can't handle 1 crazy chef, not to mention doing food calculations (your other thread mentions this), then maybe this isn't for you?


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## ldts60 (Feb 9, 2005)

Like I stated before " I was wrong" and I am embracing my math phobia and doing all of the things I should be doing .
Why as a matter of fact I made a formal complaint about this chef and she is currently being investigated.....so I must not have been wrong when It came to her teaching style. Usually when someone is under the microscope
It's due to the complaints of many , not just one whiny smart *** ,chef wanna be.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

One of the things you need to do is to pick your battles. This is small change compared to what you're gonna have to do in the "real world."

Do you want to

1) Fight with people, be miserable at your job, worry about what other people are doing instead of yourself, switch jobs every 6 months, stay a line cook all your life?

or

2) Meet people halfway or all the way if it you can, stick up to your ideals with respect and insist on doing the important things properly, enjoy your job and the people around you?

There are two extremes in getting along with people. Sit back and take everything or fight back at every opportunity regardless of right or wrong. The correct way is always somewhere in between.


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## ldts60 (Feb 9, 2005)

Kuan
I'm fighting over grade issues and I have 2 choices take the bad grade and explain the issue at every interview or retake the class and get the old grade changed and it
just ****** me off ! Maybe I should dust off my copy of " The Art of War "
Na! I'm just going to retake the class and stop fighting an up hill battle because at this point It's he said, she said and the grief is not worth it anymore .
Your right pick your battles .


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## beefcheeks (Apr 3, 2005)

"_To be humble to superiors is duty, to equals courtesy, to inferiors nobleness._ " -Benjamin Franklin

"_There is no gardening without humility. Nature is constantly sending even it's oldest scholars to the bottom of the class for some egreious blunder._ "
-Alfred Austin

My favorite...

"_Humility is the constant willingness to remain teachable._ 
-anonymous

Your greatest lessons will be learned but not taught. :chef:


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## tatgrrl26 (Jan 25, 2005)

Which LCB location are you attending? I am in Pasadena, CA. I understand your comment "the problem is that L.C.B. only pushes the classical way..." it is important to learn the basics in order to grow successfully as a chef. I have had great chef instructor's at school. Yes we have to learn classical methods, but my chef's have also introduced new contemporary methods of the same dish. I have observed the attitudes among some students that are rather negative. Many come into this school with just wanting to learn how to cook w/o learning the basics.I don't understand why students have the attitude of knowing it all, why spend the money on school if you know it all?


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## greg (Dec 8, 1999)

Good strategy. Don't sweat the grade stuff so much. Most, if not all, chefs are not going to bring up your GPA, let alone a grade for one class in an interview.


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## ldts60 (Feb 9, 2005)

I'm at Pasadena,I have no problem with the classical and understand the idea .
Did you have Chef Sloane? Are you in Garde Manger yet ?


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## ldts60 (Feb 9, 2005)

I look at it like this ....Arguing with your ( fill in with what/who ever)
is like wrestling a pig in mud,after a while you
realize the pig enjoys it.


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