# Creamy mac and cheese help



## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

I have tried to make a creamy mac and cheese but everytime it comes out grainy textured. 
The closest recipe i have uses the following

1/2 cup butter
1/2 cup flour
salt, pepper, and garlic granules
2cups milk
2 cups half & half
2 10oz blocks of sharp chedder
1 10 oz block of extra sharp chedder
1 lb pasta

In a skillet our sauce pan melt butter and then gradually stir in flour until smooth about 2 min. add in salt, pepper, and garlic and mix. Add the milk and half & half gradually until combined and continue cooking and whisking for 8-10 min or until thick. add 1/2 the sharp cheddar and the extra sharp cheddar until combined. remove from heat and combine with cooked noodles. Pour into a greased casserole dish and sprinkle the remaining cheese over it. Bake @ 350 for 20 min.

I think the mixture appeared to be a little grainy before even adding the cheese.

I appreciate any help offered,


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## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

One thing I just thought of is that I use skim milk and the half and half is fat free, could this be contributing to my problems. I cook this on a medium-high heat


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Stop with the fat free liquids as they are just white colored water and good full fat hard cheese will break when added to this boiling base.
Is there some reason why the fats in the cheese are ok but the fat in milk are not?


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## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

You know I don't think I even realized the cheese was not fat free when I purchased it. I am trying to cook healthier for the family but I know that just setting portion control for anything is the big key. I will try and make a smaller batch this weekend with whole products and see how it goes.
 

So just change to whole milk and half/half and I should be ok?


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

IMO mac n cheese is one of those comfort casseroles that are best when a one cup serving clocks in at about a thousand calories ;-)
When we do indulge it stands in for the entree with steamed broccoli (sans butter.. salt and fresh ground pepper only, IMO) for the side to please My Gma Van.
Now for some tips..
Make a recipe and a half of the cheese sauce, under cook the elbows, and this will leave 'room' for the pasta to absorb some of the cheesy goodness without risking mushy noodles.
Garlic is but one way to punch up this dish.
Mustard powder is one.
Onion powder, nutmeg are couple more.
Here in the south a whisked egg or two, added in before popping into the oven will lighten things up a bit.. 
Butter soaked bread crumbs, sprinkled on about 10 min before dish is done makes for a nice garnish.
Enjoy!


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## dobzre (Mar 3, 2011)

I don't make a roux period.

Boil your pasta drain it add it back to the pot.

Add heavy cream a few bay leaves, cloves, a dab of chicken base and bring to a boil.

Remove from the heat and add grated cheddar cheese, fontina, and parmeasan and stir to melt.

Season with salt and pepper and garlic powder, cayenne, nutmeg.





  








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dobzre


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Jan 16, 2013


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## kaneohegirlinaz (Apr 24, 2011)

I'll throw my hat in …

Mac and Cheese is not meant to be a fat-free, IMO. 

You could purchase something like Trader Joe's brand, 

I think it's called, 'guilt free mac and cheese' in their freezer case, if that's what you're looking for.

As to your orginal question as too why yours came out grainy, IMHO, it may be the cheese. Bargain brand cheese could very well be your culprit. 

I personally use Cook's Illistrated/America's Test Kitchen/Cook's Country recipe and buy the best cheese I can find.


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## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

I figure since I am WI we have the best cheese around.  I am not sure what one considers a good brand of cheese?


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

The first ingredient listed should be cream or milk.
If oil is there anywhere run for the hills :-(


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## kaneohegirlinaz (Apr 24, 2011)

IMO, softer cheeses along with less cheddar


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## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

I know all the cheese I use doesn't list oil but I have always just used cheddar. I am not very versed in cheese as it not high on my list of things I like in some forms.

I get allot of grief as I am from WI and I only like mac with cheese, and baked cheese.  I am not a fan of raw, cream, or even on a burger I don't care for it.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Chedder is perfectly fine altho for a creamy sauce ya gotta start with a roux based cheese sauce.
Easy tho.


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## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

please expound on this last comment.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

You like creamy mac and cheese.
You are also partial to cheddar.
In order for the cheese to melt and not have a pool of fat on top, you will first make a roux , add the cream while whisking , now you have a cream sauce to which thd shredded cheese is added a handful at a time.
Do not boil this sauce as you could very well break it leaving you with a greasy , lumpy mess.


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## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

OK that makes sense, that is how I did the initial process. I am going to try and make  small batch tomorrow evening with regular milk and regular half/half or cream.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

You're using too much flour.  I know I know, roux is equal parts butter and equal parts fat - however I find that I can make a super creamy mac and cheese by reducing the amount of flour and it still holds together just fine without being grainy.  My mac n cheese used to be grainy and I fixed it by limiting the amount of flour and then cooking the roux a bit longer, that flour really needs time.  Not to mention that I've added other ingredients too which takes it wayyyyyy over the top in flavor (caramelized onions, bacon, mustard powder, cayenne pepper, a little thyme and a dash of nutmeg).  You'll thank me in the morning.

As far as cheese goes, cheddar is great and belongs in a mac n cheese.  But only using cheddar is going to give you a one-dimensional flavor.  It is temperamental and it breaks easily and it needs the support of something else.  I use 1 part cheddar, 1 part colby, 1 part monterey jack.  Sometimes I add fontina too for special occassions because it adds a lot of creaminess.

But yea dude, mac n cheese can't be made with fat free products.... I mean it can but you won't get the results you're looking for.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Less flour will make for a greasy roux.
If it feels grainy cook longer altho the longer it cooks the less thickening power you will have.
Altho not a big deal just add more cheese lol.
Totally agree with assortment of cheese. 
Like comparing a single violin to a full orchestra.


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## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

So I will leave the my quanities the same, but I will use a array of cheeses. Is there some cheese that don't meld good together. Like I said I really don't like raw cheese so me tasting things isn't great.  I don't think I could ever make it as a chef as I am kind of a picky eater. I figure that all chefs must be a food lover of all kinds.

based on recommendations from above, I think I will mix in some fontina, and parmesan to my cheddar.

I am not wanting a very thick rough, just a nice creamy consistency when I am done.  The wife gets a mac and cheese dish from a local brew/pub called the Great Dane. They serve there mac and cheese with a very pale cheese sauce and a few chunks of white cheese on it when served that melts in beautifully.  I would like mine to be close to the same consistency and taste so I can make her happy.


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## chicagoterry (Apr 3, 2012)

Ask them at the brew pub what kind of cheeses they are using and go with those when you've had a chance to get your hands on them. I'm a little surprised a brew pub doesn't list what cheeses they are using in their menu description. In my experience, brew pub menus usually describe what's in their dishes with almost painful specificity. 

Oh...and make sure you are using real parmesan. Not the stuff in a can. (I didn't have to say that, did I?)


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## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

I only very rarely use the can stuff and it is only when I am topping some pasta dish. I never use it for actually cooking.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

scribble said:


> I only very rarely use the can stuff and it is only when I am topping some pasta dish. I never use it for actually cooking.


I don't even use it for actual eating /img/vbsmilies/smilies/drinkbeer.gif


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

I hosted a tasting for the Philly cheese peeps about a year or so ago.
Seems that lots of home cooks were using the reg block cream cheese to round out tomato based sauces.
Altho they loved the way the cheese toned down the acid but needed to know how to get it to melt smoothly .
As you can imagine the R and D division hopped right on it.
I had a bunch of stay at home moms over to prepare a few dishes with this cream cheese based dairy product .
Several dif flavors one being a sort of Southwest blend, not too spicy, that I used in a mac and cheese dish.
Results were surprisingly good .
The moral of the story?
IDK, lol.
Thought you might want to try it, maybe you will like it and from there try even MORE types of cheese
Ya nevah know .....


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## laurenlulu (Sep 9, 2012)

Not sure if you're used to cooking with a roux, heating your liquid (milk, in this case) will minimize the seizing of the flour creating a silky sauce.


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## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

laurenlulu said:


> Not sure if you're used to cooking with a roux, heating your liquid (milk, in this case) will minimize the seizing of the flour creating a silky sauce.


So what your saying is temper the milk or just plain heat it and the cream/ half&half before adding it in?


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

I have seen it made  without a roux  o white sauce and it was good. Simply heat whole milk and beat in cream cheese as the thickener and then cheddar


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

flipflopgirl said:


> Less flour will make for a greasy roux.


Has never happened to me. Have you done it or are you just hypothesizing?


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## laurenlulu (Sep 9, 2012)

scribble said:


> So what your saying is temper the milk or just plain heat it and the cream/ half&half before adding it in?


What I mean is whatever milks/liquids you add to a roux (milk, cream, 1/2 and 1/2, stock, etc), heating them first before adding to the roux makes a creamier sauce. Adding cold liquids to the hot oil/flour often causes gritty bits of flour to remain. At work I pour the milk into a half pan and put into the steamer to prevent scorching while I multitask or prepare the roux. Adding milk straight from the fridge almost guarantees a gritty sauce for me.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

laurenlulu said:


> What I mean is whatever milks/liquids you add to a roux (milk, cream, 1/2 and 1/2, stock, etc), heating them first before adding to the roux makes a creamier sauce. Adding cold liquids to the hot oil/flour often causes gritty bits of flour to remain. At work I pour the milk into a half pan and put into the steamer to prevent scorching while I multitask or prepare the roux. Adding milk straight from the fridge almost guarantees a gritty sauce for me.


Interesting. The references I've been exposed to seem to all say either cold roux and hot liquid or hot roux and cold liquid. I've never come across the suggestion of hot roux and hot liquid before. One reference in specific: The Professional Chef, Culinary Institute of America, 7th edition, pages 238-239.

Learning never stops, does it.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

PeteMcCracken said:


> Interesting. The references I've been exposed to seem to all say either cold roux and hot liquid or hot roux and cold liquid. I've never come across the suggestion of hot roux and hot liquid before. One reference in specific: The Professional Chef, Culinary Institute of America, 7th edition, pages 238-239.
> 
> Learning never stops, does it.


When making a small amount of bechamel, for mac n cheese for example, I always add cold milk to my roux and it works really well. However sometimes I'm trying to make 2 pasticcios at once and we like a 1.5inch layer of bechamel on top of each so I make a big pot of bechamel using a whole gallon of milk. In that case I do heat up the milk, it speeds up the process and it leaves no lumps.


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## laurenlulu (Sep 9, 2012)

PeteMcCracken said:


> Interesting. The references I've been exposed to seem to all say either cold roux and hot liquid or hot roux and cold liquid. I've never come across the suggestion of hot roux and hot liquid before. One reference in specific: The Professional Chef, Culinary Institute of America, 7th edition, pages 238-239.
> 
> Learning never stops, does it.


Pete, I'm not sure how to interpret your tone. Was my post rude in some way? What I was telling Scribble is that if her sauce is coming out grainy trying a different method may help with that, just as a different method helps me.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

lulu...

I often "hear" between the lines when reading an email, text or even a note inside a bday card.

Is one of those "new age of electronics" problems yet to get fixed.

Altho we all wonder what the author is "really" trying to say sometimes (this is me and I totally own it) probably 99% of the time is just the little voices (hate those voices, lol) working on our self esteem.

Not to say that you (or anyone else that posts on any forum on the net) has poor self esteem.

mimi


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

You've got 30oz of cheese for 1lb pasta????  This is just a wild recipe all around.

try:

16-20oz cheese

2 tbs flour

2 tbs butter

2 cups milk (or half ratio white wine with alchohol boiled off and sugar to balance)

salt, pepper and whatever other seasoning (goodness but do add some thyme anyway)

Oops, you can make that 3-4 cups of milk/wine and equal tablespoons flour

This will be creamy, half the proper degree of liquidity, and give you some pasta to experience with your cheese.

Rick


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## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

I tried using the recipe I had with whole items and also the way another person posted with even heating the liquids before hand and still turned out grainy. I used quality cheese with no oil listed in the ingredients. I think I am just destined to not make a real make and cheese.

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/frown.gif


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Just curious, have others outside your family tried your MC and also found it grainy?  Hypersensitivity to texture does occur in some folks and can run in families.  You and yours may be amongst those few.

Rick


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## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

My wife and I both feel the same way, you can even see it when you are spooning it up. The grainyness is always there before I even add the cheese.  I am guessing it has something to do with my whisking and I think I am whisking the dickens out of it.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

scribble said:


> My wife and I both feel the same way, you can even see it when you are spooning it up. The grainyness is always there before I even add the cheese. I am guessing it has something to do with my whisking and I think I am whisking the dickens out of it.


It has everything to do with using too much flour (which I used to do) and with using too much cheddar cheese (which I also used to do).

It's surprising how little roux is necessary to make a creamy mac n cheese. A couple of tablespoons of roux is more than enough. Cook the roux on medium heat stirring lightly, you don't have to whisk the bejeezus out of it! Cooking the roux is very important, this is where you break down that graininess. Add plenty of milk so that the mixture is more liquidy than it is stiff. Add as much cheese as you want but make sure it's grated and that you add it a little at a time so that it melts slowly before it has a chance to break. Then add your cooked noodles. The starch from the noodles will make it stiffen considerably so don't worry if it looks too liquidy to start with.


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## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

Koukouvagia said:


> It has everything to do with using too much flour (which I used to do) and with using too much cheddar cheese (which I also used to do).
> 
> It's surprising how little roux is necessary to make a creamy mac n cheese. A couple of tablespoons of roux is more than enough. Cook the roux on medium heat stirring lightly, you don't have to whisk the bejeezus out of it! Cooking the roux is very important, this is where you break down that graininess. Add plenty of milk so that the mixture is more liquidy than it is stiff. Add as much cheese as you want but make sure it's grated and that you add it a little at a time so that it melts slowly before it has a chance to break. Then add your cooked noodles. The starch from the noodles will make it stiffen considerably so don't worry if it looks too liquidy to start with.


ok so I will lessen the amount of flour and not whisk it to death. I will lessen the amount of cheese. I really want a supper creamy cheese sauce.


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## jake t bud (Feb 25, 2013)

Julia Child recommends adding hot liquid to hot roux - for bechamel or veloute sauces.

Adding cold roux to hot liquid or visa versa I always thought was to thicken sauces in stews and the like. In this case the roux is the base for a bechamel, yes?

I only learned bechamel from Julia


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## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

I believe so but I am not familiar with a bechamel


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

scribble said:


> I believe so but I am not familiar with a bechamel


Bechamel is the best substance on earth. I could eat it in bowlfuls!


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## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

Ok so I am getting so frustrated with myself and my failed mac & cheese attempts that I am not going to try another attempt until I can work with someone who can make a decent version and work with me step by step in person.


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

Is your sauce boiling after you add the cheese.  Never boil the sauce after the cheese is added as it will turn it grainy especially when dealing with harder cheeses such as cheddar.  Usually when I bake my mac & cheese I use a slilghtly different recipe, enriched with eggs.  It doesn't come out as creamy, but then it isn't like my stove top version that ends up super creamy.  Your recipe seems more like my stove top version.  I would try not baking it. If you want browned, melty cheese on top just pop it under the broiler for a couple of minutes.  But my guess is overheating (boiling) your sauce once the cheese is added. 

I have to disagree with everyone that is focusing on the roux.  I've made cheese sauces with a heavily rouxed sauce and a lightly rouxed sauce and both have come out perfectly as long as you have fully cooked your roux and you are careful not to overheat the sauce after the cheese is made.


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## bubbamom (Jan 30, 2002)

When it comes to mac & cheese, I have very simple tastes -- and my "recipe" has not failed me yet and is never grainy. Its basic and simple and some may argue its junk food -- but its what we grew up on and is a real comfort food. The secret is Velvetta Cheese. The recipe is as follows. Boil up pasta (I prefer medium shells). In the meantime, make a basic white sauce (2 C hot milk, 4 T butter, 4 T flour, 1/2 tsp salt and 1/4 tsp pepper). To this I add the Velvetta, a block about 3" cut into cubes. When the cheese is nearly melted, mix it with drained cooked pasta. Put in greased baking dish or casserole and bake at 350 degrees for 20-25 minutes. Not complicated or "gourmet" -- just darned good! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/licklips.gif

Note: I use a whole "small" box of pasta - adjust the amount of white sauce and cheese as needed.


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## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

I seem to be having the grainyness come in when initially making the rough.  I have the grainy base before even adding the cheese.  I thought I wasn't whisking it in enough to break up the flour but the last 2 times I tried I whisked for 10-12 min straight. My arm felt like it was going to fall off.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

How are you making the roux? Are you using all purpose flour? Basically what you want to do is equal parts of butter and flour. Melt the butter over low heat. When melted, whisk in the flour. Once well incorporated, let cook over low heat heat for 5 minutes, stirring occasionally. Slowly whisk in cold milk and increase heat to bring to a boil. Stir while coming up to a boil. Once it comes to boil, cook until thickened to desired consistency. Remove from heat and whisk in cheese. Add salt and pepper to taste.


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## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

scribble said:


> I have tried to make a creamy mac and cheese but everytime it comes out grainy textured.
> The closest recipe i have uses the following
> 
> 1/2 cup butter
> ...


Here is the initial recipe I was working with that I was unsucesfull many times now. I was using All purpose flour and I did try it with whole milk and heavy cream substitued at times also.


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## scribble (Dec 21, 2012)

cheflayne said:


> How are you making the roux? Are you using all purpose flour? Basically what you want to do is equal parts of butter and flour. Melt the butter over low heat. When melted, whisk in the flour. Once well incorporated, let cook over low heat heat for 5 minutes, stirring occasionally. Slowly whisk in cold milk and increase heat to bring to a boil. Stir while coming up to a boil. Once it comes to boil, cook until thickened to desired consistency. Remove from heat and whisk in cheese. Add salt and pepper to taste.


I will give your directions a try tonight late or tomorrow. I would like something creamy like a Bar we go to or like the noodles and company version. I know they add bear to the sauce at the bar but I am not sure were to add the beer in.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

scribble said:


> I will give your directions a try tonight late or tomorrow. I would like something creamy like a Bar we go to or like the noodles and company version. I know they add bear to the sauce at the bar but I am not sure were to add the beer in.


I often add white wine, half n half ratio with milk. I boil off the alchohol first as I feel alchohol draws off aromatics from the spices as it evaporates, but that probably isn't necessary with beer's low alchohol content.

I typically just eyeball amounts but measured things more carefully last time:

4 cups liquid

1 pound cheese

1 pound shells

2 tbls flour and butter each

I don't do any tricks to the rough, just heat it up and stir it around on moderate heat for a couple few minutes to insure the raw flavor is gone, maybe even brown it a little, then stir in small amounts of liquid at a time till it's liquid instead of paste.

Add all liquid and seasioning, heat till just beginning to bubble stage and stir till thickened, then add cheese.

So far this is much as others suggested doing

Question: I just throw the cooked shells into the baking dishes, pour the sauce over as I move things around a bit to insure the shells get filled, but if someone feels there is a better way I'd listen.

Rick


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