# If you're going to San Francisco....



## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

My husband and I are planning a visit to the City by the Bay in May. Any help you can give will be appreciated! I plan our trips with these things in mind:

1. I am a pretty hardcore foodie, but my husband simply eats. Some balance is required, so I get to experience some great food (not necessarily expensive) and he can be nourished. Did I mention he doesn't eat fish in any form?  
2. Neither one of us wants to spend a lot of time in museums.
3. We don't do hiking, boating, golfing, tennis or fishing- any sports, really.

We have already determined to spend at least four nights in San Francisco, then decamp for Monterey and vicinity for several days. We're certainly going to Golden Gate Park, Muir Woods, Alcatraz, probably take a drive across the Golden Gate bridge and maybe visit Berkeley. The rest is up for consideration.

What should we not miss? Thanks in advance!
Mezzaluna

P.S.- we don't have a hotel, but prefer full-service hotels. I've been looking in the Union Square area so far.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair! 

It's been so long since I've been there...

If you can spare the time you can hit Napa Valley. Here's me at the Hakusan Sake brewery.

http://www.usfamily.net/web/kuanheidi/Hakukuan1.jpg


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## foodnfoto (Jan 1, 2001)

Sounds like fun.
It's a little old hat (not the trendiest anymore) but the Fog City Diner is really good and will probably satisfy both your foodie tastes and your husband's less curious approach. Check out their website for the menu.

Alcatraz is really a neat trip. The views of SF from the excercise yard are truly spectacular-must have been a special kind of punishment. 

Don't miss the Japanese Garden in Golden Gate Park, but at all costs, avoid Fisherman's Wharf. 

North Beach is a neat area. The City Lights Bookstore is still there and fun to poke around in. You're likely to see some famous writers, if you can recognize them. The readings are always interesting. 

For something really fun and a truly unique experience, reserve some tickets and go through the Tactile Dome at the Exploratorium. I know, you don't do museums, but this one is really fun! The Tactile Dome is a geodesic (sp?) dome within the museum, that you explore in the dark. You crawl through these different tunnel, shutes and rooms looking for certain items. It's a blast to do with kids too. 

A lot of people don't know it, but the ACT (American Conservatory Theater) stages some of the best theatrical productions in the country. I know, Broadway gets all the attention, but if you want to see cool plays with up and coming stars (think Denzel Washington before everyone knew him) go see a show at ACT-they are always good. I've seen Elizabeth Pena and Olympia Dukakis in live productions there.

If you have a car, it's a wonderful drive to cross the Golden Gate to check out Sausilito (a little too snooty in my view) but also Mill Valley, and then drive up to Point Reyes along the Pacific Coast. The Muir Woods will be along the way-not to miss. Near Point Reyes there is an earthquake observation center that has some really nice walks and interesting information about fault lines that run through that area. 

Of course, if you go to Berkeley, go eat at Chez Panisse. Why go to the Bay Area and not eat there?

Have fun!!!!


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## foodnfoto (Jan 1, 2001)

PS-just looked at the website, and it looks like Sam Shephard's Curse of the Starving Class will be up at the ACT while you are there. It's a great play-funny and biting- and is bound to be a first rate production.


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## botanique (Mar 23, 2005)

Mezz -- PM me! I can help you come up with an itinerary -- or if you like a more relaxed approach just point you in a few directions. I would also love to treat you to dinner! Cheers! Stevie


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Ferry Plaza farmer's market.....oh man......mecca for us farmer's market addicts. Sat. morning is best but the building has some incredible shops open 7 days. Good prepared food there too....Aidells sausages, Lulu's quiche/salads, Dr. Art Lang's dried fruit....choc. satsumas are hands down my fav. choc. ever.......Frog Hollow Bakery, rissotto tart......Japanese Tea shop, the almonds are wonderful, not sure how they toast them........etc....


Mustards, really good food.....not quite as far as Napa. Both of you would be happy.

If you get a chance, and some research is needed....oh Shel you there? 
In SF there is the only handmade fillo shop in the US. mid-eastern nams that starts with an S....it's been numerous years since I've been there but oh my....exceptional.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Mezz and I have been in touch privately - in fact, just this morning.

Mustards is good, but overrated. Many better and less pretentious places in the area.

I'm not sure about that filo shop ... read or saw a show about it, or another one, recently. Regardless of which shop it was, it was amazing to see that dough stretched.


shel


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## harpua (May 4, 2005)

Do you guys like tea? We never miss Imperial Tea Court in Chinatown. You sit at a table and taste teas for as long as you want. It's really great on a cold day; you walk out feeling fabulous. 

Imperial Tea Court

1411 Powell Street
San Francisco, CA 94133


Oh man, I was just going to suggest a KILLER Japanese restaurant, but nevermind.

Well, for others, you must check out Minako. I think there may be many articles on it. Organic sushi.

Oh yea, I also agree that you should skip Fishermans' Wharf. 

I went to a wedding in Frisco a few weeks ago; it was held at Crissy Field. It's a gorgeous park on the Golden Gate side and you can see much of the city and the bay. So pretty!


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

What a treasure trove of ideas and knowledge! But after all, this is Chef Talk. 

I looked at Chez Panisse and will consider what to do about it as we get closer to our May trip. I know you need to get reservations there; they will take them up to one month in advance but you have to give them $25 per person deposit for making the reservation. I understand why, but then.... Others seem to think there are enough really good restaurants in the Bay Area that we could look elsewhere and be satisfied. 

Shroom, the market sounds fabulous! I love Aidell's sausages. 

FnF, the ACT and City Lights bookstore will also go in the file. I'd love to see a production while we're there, and bookstores are magnets for me.

Harpua, DH and I both enjoy tea, so that's on the list too! My MIL told us about the tea house in Golden Gate park- also on the list.

Kuan, if we don't make it to Napa, do you have other suggestions?

Botanique, I've replied. 

Mezz


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## cookielady (Oct 3, 2007)

I second the recommendation for the Ferry Building Marketplace. The marketplace is wonderful for foodies. A farmer's market sets up outside Tuesdays and Saturdays. 
ferrybuildingmarketplace.com

If you are walking North Beach and visiting City Lights, I suggest a stop for lunch at Molinari's Delicatessen. In many ways, it is the ultimate Italian deli. Both you and your hubby will be more than satisfied there. You go in, grab a number, and then pick what bread you want your sandwich on from the bin in the middle of the store. Then you can peruse the menu board. When your number comes up, hand them your bread and tell them what you want. I love their meatballs! Take it outside to the three or four tables they have set up and people watch to your heart's content. Truly a great experience! 

I know you don't want to spend a lot of time in museums, but SF has one that is unique that you might want to check out: The Cartoon Art Museum. 
cartoonart.org
Defiinitely worth a look-see and won't take up a lot of time. 

On your way to Monterey, you will probably pass through Half Moon Bay. If you do, Pasta Moon is a delicious stop in a cute, funky town. 
pastamoon.com

While in Monterey, the Aquarium is super cool! 

SF and Northern CA is one of my favorite places on earth. You will love it!


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## annud (Oct 23, 2007)

I went to school in Berkeley so I know that side a little better. Chez Panisse is a bit out of the normal price range, ha! But there are fantastic restaurants nearby. Cheese Board Pizza makes some of the best pesto. There's a Jewish deli, Saul's, that's supposedly topped national knish and matzo ball taste tests (never confirmed this, but they're pretty tasty).

Oh, and if you stand on Shattuck or University Avenue, pick up a rock, close your eyes and throw, the rock will probably hit the best Indian, Thai, or Himalayan hole-in-the-wall you'll ever eat at. hehe...


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

The cafe, upstairs, at Chez Panisse is great. Less expensive as well. Ingredients are still top notch. Hardly anyone mentions the cafe. Caf&#233 Menu - ChezPanisse.com

Saul's is not a very good "Jewish" deli, whatever that's supposed to mean. Much of the food isn't even close to approaching a NYC deli, service has always been spotty, and prices are getting to be too high for what you get in the way of food and service.

Cheeseboard pizza is darned good, and the Cheeseboard has some great baked goods and a wide selection of cheeses from around the world - staffed by people who know cheese, not just sell it.

Next door to Saul's is a small pastry place - Masa's I think it's called. SUPERB! Not expensive. Comfortable and cozy with seating for about ten or twelve.

Indeed, there are quite a number of good, inexpensive holke-in-the wall places along University Avenue.

Shel (who spends a lot of time in the Gourmet Ghetto)


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## deltadoc (Aug 15, 2004)

I wouldn't pass up the chance to stand under the "Haight-Ashbury" street sign and have my picture taken!

doc


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

So, you're finally catching up with the sixties 

Shel


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## pastry maven (Feb 6, 2006)

And while you're in "The Haight," stop in at Cha-Cha-Cha (CHA3.COM) for some fabulous Sangria and Cuban/Caribbean food!

Cheers!

Micki


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

See why I love this place??!!

Shel, I had come across the Cafe at Chez Panisse. It might be a great highlight for a day in Berkeley.

I'm with Doc: I won't miss the chance to visit Haight-Ashbury! I was a hippie wannabe rather than there real thing (how can you _really_ be a hippie and go to a university in a town called "Normal"? )


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

It ain't nuthin' like it was ...I lived there summer of '66 through early '68. The place turned to sh!t sometime in 67. I do remember a couple of good cafes - there was Magnolia Thunderpussy's, a truly great, and as far as I could tell, authentic fish n chips place (served the food on newspaper), a neat little Russan hole-in-the-wall that served fantastic borscht and nicely done perogies.

Last time I was there the place had been nicely Yuppie-ized. There's nothing there that even smacks of the "old days." We used to distribute free food, the Black Panthers had a place across the street from my flat and put out free food for the neighborhood every now and then (Bobby Seale was frequently the 'que meister - he made good 'que - wrote a barbecue cookbook, FWIW), Janis and the Dead were neighbors, Quicksilver Messenger Service lived downstairs at one point, The Airplane never locked their door and we'd drift in and out, shooting pool on the table in the dining room, there were free concerts in GG park (Speedway Meadows) - Oh well, I guess if you want to have your picture taken underneath the street sign, y' gotta go there.

Shel (sometimes missing the old days)


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Mezz,
Went there this past summer.
ACT,
silicon val
I found the drive to Nappa fast and easy and the food is the payoff. Bunch of places on (I think) Washington street.
We really disliked the Wharf. Turned around and boogied off fast. Although we bought discount tickets on line for most of the tourist attractions, we enjoyed the boat tour from the wharf. Giardelli's, cheaper at CVS.
We negotiated a good room price at the Marriot Marquis because it was under remodel.
Some really nice galleries.
Miur is great at opening hour. Place gets busy later.
Had dinner during lunch rush at Hurley's place in Nappa. pretty good
Dankos sounds touristy but had a great 3 hour meal
Had a couple of pounds of red meat at Arcadia while visiting Stanford and silicon and was so full, spent the night there. ( probably my best meal), except for a deli like joint across from the Marriott. Patty melts, corned beef sand, etc. Can't remember the name but was worth the wait.
You'll have a great time.
Bring warm clothes
Don't walk anywhere. We hiked a couple of blocks and had to make two hills. The top of the second hill I was ready for the paddles and mouth to mouth.


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

Pan, thanks for the insights! I look at the Google map of SF, then see photos from street level and want to grab my asthma inhaler! But we'll manage. My husband is a technical geek so maybe Silicon Valley would be a lure.

Shel, it sounds like you were in Berkeley for some good times- historic times, even. I seem to remember Ruth Reichl worked for AW at one point.... Was it in that time period? I read her memoir but it's been a while.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Mezz,
intel has a pretty good museum.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Yes, don't go to the Wharf. About 20 years ago, they served fresh grilled salmon on SF sourdough. These days it's crappy carnival fried seafood.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

I was in San Francisco then, not Berkeley. Moved out of the Haight in early to mid 1968, and moved to Berkeley in 1969-70. Wasn't familiar with RR in those days. Although I cooked a little - very little - my first real cooking experience took place soon after I moved to Berkeley, Made a cheese souffle for my first dish for a group of about six or seven people. What was I thinking!

Shel


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## deltadoc (Aug 15, 2004)

Interesting. I had a freind from Dubuque that lived there on Haight-Asbury area in '67- ?

SO maybe you can clear something up for me. '67 was the "Summer of Love" right?

So when did "Death of Hippie" take place? Was it the end of the summer of '67 or sometime during the summer of '68?

Are you familiar with the documentary "It was 20 years ago today"?

In that documentary there is a scene of a somewhat hefty hippie walking down the street looking into the documentary cameraman's camera, with a young girl, with kind of a scared look on her face, and he was gesticulating and shouting out (no sound on that shot) that my friend pointed out to me was a well known "Norbert the Nark".

Yeah, Shel, I miss those days too. Yet, like Grace Slick said in retrospect, "it was just that there were SO MANY of us baby boomers with nothing else to do, it really didn't mean much at all". Like the guy in that documentary that lived on a boat in Amsterdam, he said "Everyone's always asking, "What's happening? Is there anything happening?" (paraphrased as best I can remember). All over the world, the hippie culture (or at best the imitation of what appeared to be the hippie culture and flower children frame of mind) was spreading.

So, the spirit and spirituality and the "feeling" of maybe being part of something big that might be or even was changing the world through love was in the air. But I wonder, was it just the same then as it is now, with kids wearing their jeans down below their underwear? Just people following what was "popular" and "trying to fit in" or was there really something different about the late '60's that will probably never occur again in anybody's lifetime forever?

Looking very forward to pursueing this off-shoot of the original thread. Mezz doesn't mind, do you? 


doc


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Last night, while reading these messages, I realized that no one touched on some of the real food and dining treasures of San Francisco. Everyone has been concentrating on the more typical tourist spots.

Check out Clement Street, in the Richmond Districe, where there are more restaurants than you can imagine. It's a nice level aprt of town - great for walking for those not used tothe hills - and entertain yourself with numerous cafes and and chinese, thai, japanese restaurants.

Move into the sunny Mission District, oh, from about 16th street out, and you'll find yourself in the heart of the Latino area. Wonderful culture, and some truly great, small restaurants :lips:. Enjoy the hustle and bustle of the place on a weekend day. Easy to get to with a simple street car ride from down town. The Mission area is also nice and flat 

Explore Chinatown - get some Dim Sum (I can recommend some great Dim Sum places) and check out another cultural aspect of the city.

shel


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

Nah, Doc- how could I!? I'm not that territorial. 

Shel, you are the information source that seems limitless. What a goldmine you are!


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Well, thanks ... 
<LOL> I'm just a foodie and a city explorer ...

You might want to consider a trip to Japan town ...

Patricia Unterman's Hayes Street Grill near city hall has been serving up Good Eats since Alton Brown was a pup. Patricia was the SR Chronicles main food critic and restaurant reviewer for a long time. A number of the local chefs eat there frequently, and certainly recommend the place.

Swan Oyster Depot is a 100 year old institution that is worth a stop. The Tadich Grill is another long time institution. Wanna spend some $$$, check out Masa's. Hubby better wear a jacket and tie, and you'll have to wear real shoes <LOL>

Julius Castle might be nice for drinks - can't speak to the food as it's been years since I've eaten there. It's another long time SF institution - great views IIRC. Best bet is to take a cab there.

Judy Rodgers' Zuni Cafe has always been a favorite. Her "signature" dishes of roast chicken and Caesar salad are, well, pretty good  However, I've read some mixed reviews lately, but you know my feelings about reviews. Take a look at the Zuni Cafe cook book if you've got the time and inclination.

I'll shoot more suggestions your way as I think of them and have time - OH, you've got to check out the murals at Coit tower. At one time the tower was the highest and most visible building in the SF skyline.

Oh, when in Berkeley you'd not do much better than Ajanta, Cafe Raj, Breads of India, and the Bombay Cafe for Indian food. All excellent, all of a different style,and ranging in prices from downright cheap (Bombay Cafe just of University Ave on, I belive, 9th street) - very authentic Indian fare (my friend, who has travelled extensively in India, calls it "train food" as it's like the food served on the Indian trains), ideal for an inexpensive lunch, then wander next door and check out the spices and other Indian grocery items. Ajanta is probably the most expensive, and the cafe Raj is my everyday favorite, with great food, friendly, smiling service, fresh ingredients, and a simple atmosphere. Breads of India is a small place with a limited menu, with tight seating, and great food.

Oh, down the street from Cafe Raj and arond the corner to the south is Sam's Log cabin - an authentic log cabin built in the 1930s. Sam's is funky, homestyle, organic, and serves fresh ingredients. Can't go wrong for breakfast - but don't expect your coffe mugs to match <LOL>

A little further to the south is Ruen Pair, excellent, authentic Thai. Don't order the food hot unless you're ready for *HOT! *I'm sweating just thinking about it.

OK, now I'vegotta sign off. Doc, I'll get back to you on that hippie bizniz ...


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Hey, I just discovered that the San Francisco area has 38 Michelin starred restaurants - as many as NYC - that might make dining choices interesting. In addition there are dozens that have been recognized by Michelin as being of very good value. If you're interested, I'll shoot you the list or post it here. Not up for it right now.

Shel


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

End of July numerous years ago the wind and cold was definately heavy sweater weather.....coming from southern Louisana.....!!!!

Across from Swan's (which is a old timey seafood bar, not really a place to take your guy) is a wonderful cook shop. Found Italian tuna, all kinds of great 00 flour, various odds and ends that made shipping it all home still a deal. After the post office started giving out "set rate" now $8.95 boxes that you can stuff with any weighty items, they've become apart of the supplies in my travel bag....stamped ready to use with labels that are already filled out. So anything special can be easily shipped home. Used 3 on the last trip to SF, plus of course the large market basket hauled on the plane with farmer market shtuff....used to take a cooler wherever we'd go but have really been alittle put off by the airline rules, it's alittle unclear what types of cooling are acceptable.


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## annud (Oct 23, 2007)

I haven't been to Saul's in years...shame that it's gone so downhill. Then again I've never had authentic New York deli so it's hard to compare. I was missing the place a few weeks ago and yelped it...apparently it still has many defenders, maybe because they remember the good old days?


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

It's beginning to sound like we need a get-together in SF. My son is going back out to Stanford for visit in July. I might tag along.
Corse I'll have to walk 10 paces behind him. 16 yrs old and he thinks he hung the moon. He just tells people that old hippie in the tie dyed shirt has been following me for a while:lol:
Had some good affordable food at at Asian restaurant right near the Italian border. Across the street from Larry Flints place. Can you believe that is the only land mark I remember


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

Pan, I can just see you and your wife trailing behind your skyscraper of a son! 

I'm keeping track of everyone's suggestions. My travel notes will help us plan a wonderful, memorable trip. We'll have plenty of interesting choices to make. The only problem will be getting over hotel price stick-shock. It's my first trip to California since 1984, when I stayed in LA with 8000 other teachers at an NEA convention; the union paid the bill. We're trying to find a meeting point among amenities (we like a full-service hotel), location (Union Square seems attractive) and price (below $200 seems like a bargain).


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Mezz,
The Marriott Marquis in Union Sq. wasn't such a great property. The concierge was above average. They always had 2-3 Towns cars available through valet to take you within a 5mile or so radius. We used this service all the time for a tip. They even picked us up if we arranged it. Hotel Noisy during the day but we weren't there for that. They are undergoing a remodel. If you call them directly you might get a deal if you go back and forth and mention the construction. We were able to get a deal better then a package offered. I'm pretty sure it was 99. or under a night for a week.
We usually use the amex packages to travel. We always seem to get a good deal.
pan


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

Pan, I will certainly check that! I love the idea of a ride to avoid churning my way up a hill, inhaler at the ready.


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## deltadoc (Aug 15, 2004)

Shel, still waitin'! -

doc


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Sorry DD - I wrote out my comments but forgot to post them. Here y'go:

Let me clear something up. Just because some overweight, long-haired jamoke and his burnt out girlfriend were wearing beads and flowers doesn't mean they were hippies. To my mind, the true hippie (and I hate that term) were those that came to The Haight, and other places, and tried to create some social change, and who made contributions to society, such as providing free food as mentioned in an earlier message, created art and music, explored healthier food and farming techniques, and looked for alternatives to the more typical materialistic middle-class life. It was during this period I learned about vegetarianism, macrobiotic foods and cooking, eating healthier, and was introduced to growing one's food and organic gardening (the "French intensive method was my first foray into organic gardening), recycling, and so many other things that are now pretty much acceptable, main-stream practices, although often corrupted by corporate and political interests.

Many of what the press called "hippies" were nothing more than drug pushers, misfits, troublemakers, petty criminals, and the like. They flocked to The Haight like flies to a corpse, and by the time the press caught on and started publicizing the "hippie movement" which drew these creeps to the Haight, many of the "founding hippies," as it were, had moved on and out of the area, starting alternative businesses and doing more constructive things. A lot of "us" moved to Marin County or to Berkeley. Many in the Berkeley segment are still driving their late-sixties Volvos  

There was no "Death of Hippie," at least as reported by the main stream press. We just moved and moved on, incorporating what we learned and experienced into more main stream and constructive endeavors.

AS far as I know, there was no specific "Norbert the Nark" other than a character in the Gilbert Shelton "Fabulous Furrie Freak Brothers" comix.

I think I saw the documentary you mentioned, but don't really remember it.

I don't think those times will return, but, in reality, they never left. There are still - and there have always been - people looking to improve life and make positive social changes. It's often those on the fringes that get things started, bringing up issues and ideas that slowly find their way into the main stream.

Mario Savio wasn't considered a hippie by the press - in fact he was considered a troublemaker - yet he essentially started the free speech movement, something embraced by many who were hippies, and who used the premise to bring about social change. Joan Baez wasn't a hippie, but she often showed up in The Haight to give concerts, talks, and fight for social change. Peter Coyote, the actor, wasn't a hippie, yet there he was, right alongside the rest of us, handing out free food, looking to make changes in society. All of these non-hippies were no different than many of the rest of us, doing the same things but with a different label applied by the press. Joan Baez is still considered a social activist, Peter Coyote cotinues to be involved in what he believed in then - I don't know what happened to Mario. but we all owe him at least a little thank you.

Shel


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Shel,
I just wanted to say that i agree with alot you have said.A hippie was more about a way of life then a movement. Corse I'm still a little confused and still wearing my tie died shirts. I also think the "hippies" were smart enough to figure out that going up against the political machine was a no win and move into trying to better mankind with other lifestyles,views and inventions. Alot of the old timers went green and a lot went scientific. Thank godness for both for I would be wasting paper sending this by mail..
pan


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

i wanna be a hippy.


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## deltadoc (Aug 15, 2004)

Thanks Shel. Actually I always kind of felt there were two kinds of people going on, hippies, and flower children. I always thought of myself as the latter. LOL, the "Norbert the Nark" was just a fun way of saying the guy in the documentary was a fake and probably undercover. At least according to my friend who lived there during that time.

So, again, as Grace Slick pointed out, most of it was just like today, youngsters trying to "fit in" and "be cool" by acting/dressing in the manner of the day.

I actually met the guy who was the real life character from whom one of the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers were modeled. He ran a business out of Texas and sold, among other things, the Oat Willy plastic bottle thing for smoking with.

doc


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## jayme (Sep 5, 2006)

Mezz- LOL I think very soon, you will have to extend your trip to fit in all that everyone is telling you.... 
I would disagree about skipping Fisherman's Wharf- between there and Pier 39 - it is the classic SF visit- don't have to linger long, just stroll through, gaze at sea lions.... the little baby donut shop (sorry cannot remember name) is worth a look- completely mechanized- fun to watch, and the results are pretty tasty. If you get a chance to check out the Hyatt-Regency hotel downtown- the place is impressive- lobby ceiling is 12 stories high. When you head to Monterey- even through hubby is a non-fish eater, they have more than fish- a little place in Pacific Grove- across from Asilomar - called "The Fishwife"- not fancy but nice, has a carribean influence, great food and reasonable price, right next to the beach for a stroll afterwards. And if you are in the mood for burgers- in Seaside (I think, the towns change abruptly sometimes) try the Fremont Express- they have a selection of burgers from veggie to buffalo and a scale model train that runs on tracks over your head. Cool place- casual. And check out the Breakwater beach area- it is scuba diving central...day and night diving there- the little deli at the end has great clam chowder and sandwiches....and you can walk from there up the street to Cannery Row. I'm sure you will have a blast!!


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

Thanks for the suggestions, Jayme! Maybe I can get my DH to try some fresh, Pacific fish.

You never know what you're going to get when you post a question here at CT.  As for my "hippie" years-- I went to school in the middle of the cornfields in central Illinois. They didn't have a demonstration until the spring of '70, if I remember correctly, so the '60s were a snooze in the town called (I'm not kidding) Normal. I wasn't a hippie or even a flower child; more of a flower child wannabe, _mostly_.  When you have a Jewish mother like mine keeping a tight grip on your checkbook and your GPA, you don't go off experimenting a whole lot. Not a _whole_ lot. :lol:

Back to the subject at hand: these are great suggestions for the City by the Bay. I continue to add them to my notes.

Mezz


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## slothrop (Nov 1, 2007)

If you're going to be in the Haight, check out Rosemunde Sausage on Haight, about 2 blocks east of Divisidero. Gourmet sausages, everything from duck to lamb to much more exotic, depending on what they have on hand. Also, if you're a music fan, hit Amoeba records, at the west end of Haight where it hits the panhandle of GG Park. Biggest selection of pretty much every kind of music you could want.

There are a few good Thai restaurants--unassuming mom and pop places--on Post just west of Union Square--Ar Roi and Thai Ginger plus another that I forget the name of. Used to eat at these all the time after work and they never disappointed.

Ditto to the market in the old Ferry building. Cowgirl Creamery in there has excellent cheese.

If you're going to Napa, plan on picnic-ing. There's a spot called Oakdale Grocery on the way there from SF that is a foodie's wet dream. They have everything you'll need to build a delicious--though a little pricey--lunch. I'm a sucker for Coppola's winery, not a huge fan of the wine but he has a little museum upstairs with Duvall's surfboard from Apocalypse Now, Vito/Michael's desk from The Godfather movies, all of Coppola's Oscars and a lot more. Good place to take a movie fan who's not 100% into the idea of a winery trip. Also, in downtown Napa there's a food museum called COPIA that's nice. It won't blow your mind or anything, but it's an interesting visit. Lots of stuff on the history of food, Julia Child donated a lot of $$$ and the restaurant in the museum is called Julia's Kitchen. She donated the wall from her kitchen to them and it was re-installed there. 

Sonoma is a good trip as well. It's less pricey, less touristy than Napa.

If you're going to Monterey, whale watching is great fun.

Ditto on North Beach, no need for a dinner reservation just walk up Columbus and pick a spot. Any of them will be fine, most of them will be very good.

Skip Starbucks and find Peet's coffee shops while you're there. They are based out of the Bay Area and are excellent roasters.

If there were one thing I would say is a must-have in SF, it's fish tacos at El Chachanilla at 21st/Harrison. You go up to a window in the side of a building and place your order. You get a piece of fried fish laid out on two very small white corn tortilla. (Don't worry, the fish is so lightly breaded you'll barely know it's fried.) Then you dress up your tacos with a selection of salsas, cilantro, onion. You take them inside, and enjoy. While you're down here, in the Mission, check out some of the murals and the churches, esp. the Mission Dolores on 16th, which is beautiful.

I used to work for Hyatt, and in my time with them worked at both the Hyatt Regency and the Grand Hyatt as revenue manager, which is the guy who decides how much you're paying for a hotel room on a given day. So if you have any questions about booking a hotel room in SF, feel free to PM me, I'd be happy to give you a little advice.

John


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

John, first let me say "thank you" for your reminiscences of SF. They'll be added to my notes. Second, I see this is your first post so I'll say "welcome to Chef Talk". When you get a chance please stop in the Welcome Forum and introduce yourself.

I came across this at CNN.com this morning: California's North Coast: Savor Tomales Bay - CNN.com. Has anyone been there?


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

I'd agree with Jayme on this. Plus there's some interesting art work along the Embarcadero.

shel


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## pastry maven (Feb 6, 2006)

Hi Mezz...Yes, Been there many times, as it is one of my favorite day-trips; it is BEAUTIFUL, and if you're planning a trip to Point Reyes/Muir Woods/Stinson Beach, Tomales Bay would be a logical addition, and a great place to stop for lunch or dinner. You would need to plan on spending a full day in the area, to make the trip worthwhile...It's quite a drive, along very scenic but winding:roll: roads, either along the coast on Highway 1 or through San Rafael/Ross on Sir Francis Drake Blvd, so what seems like a short distance can take a bit longer, due to slower progress on often crowded two-lane country roads. Since you'll be here in May (one of the best times, weather-wise), Heart's Desire Beach is not-to-be-Missed!! It's on the Inverness side of Tomales Bay, and is a great place to swim/kayak if you're so inclined, or even just to take in the scenery and have a nice picnic. Then you can wind back down the road toward the inland side of Tomales Bay and hit one of the many restaurants along the way...lots of seafood choices, as well as other fare. I've only been to Nick's, so can't speak to other choices, but have heard great things about Hog Island Oysters, etc.

Hope this helps...

Micki


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## jock (Dec 4, 2001)

If you go here wave to me across the street. I look out my window and I can see this place. (The cross street is called Treat; it's a small street between the two major roads - Harrison and Folsom Streets.)

If you get to Golden Gate Park go to the DeYoung Museum. I know you don't do museums but you can go to the top of their observation tower for free and get a spectacular view of the park and beyond. Just across the way from the DeYoung is the California Academy of Sciences building which is under construction. Actually the major construction is completed and now we are preparing the interior for the exhibits. Notice I said "we". I started working at the Academy about six weeks ago. Very exciting stuff.

Jock


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

whoa Jock, from culinary instructor to science teacher? how's it going?

loads of incredible bakeries in SF area one of my favorite places is Tartine on Guerraro and 19th (?) no sign, just a line.......

Coppola Winery has 300 foraging acres....

Didn't oakville grocery close? Dean and Deluca was disappointing in many aspects, huge store....super selection but alot of produce/etc had obviously spoiled....when it's premium priced there should be no slime/mold.

Copia has restaurants, gardens, great gift shop, fun demos, interesting changing exhibits.

Last time I was in SF visiting a friend who was judging a crab contest in Mendicino...oh my josh, gorgeous country....toook forever to drive the tiny 2 lane road.....stop at a couple of wineries and farmstands along the way. 
Russian River is around there....saw a stunning sunset coming out the redwoods into the ocean view, words just can't discribe how beautiful it was.


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## slothrop (Nov 1, 2007)

Did a little google search for this out of fright that Oakville could have closed. They were bought by Dean and Deluca, but D&D say they plan to keep Oakville Grocery as its own brand. I moved from SF back to Chicago in 05 and haven't been that way since, so I guess I can't vouch for the current state of Oakville Grocery. If it hasn't changed, it's worth the visit.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

hopefully then Oakville will take all D&D's wonderful produce, cheeses and meats and move them....
Time slips away so easily....where did 2007 go?


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

When I was last at the winery, Franky was charging $25.00 as an entarnce fee, which Ibelieve also included a wine tasting. You couldn't even park and walk around the grounds without paying the fee. Having been a long time visitor to the winery, and having bought lots of wine there since my first case of Rubicon in 1982, I was quite disappointed with this turn of events. Perhaps the fee has been eliminated - don't know. It's a shame since yjere are many wonderful sights and experiences tobe had at the winery.

Shel


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## jock (Dec 4, 2001)

Neither one Shroom. I'm the Facilities Manager.

Jock


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

with alot of food knowledge, and SF go to place info.....
Glad to see you back on the forums.


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

I can't thank everyone enough who's contributed to this thread! Your references to local spots you enjoyed can't be found in most tourist guidebooks or websites. Keep 'em coming! I'm taking notes.


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## ramon (Oct 17, 2007)

I've never been to San Francisco. I'd like to go for the food, but I'd also like to see some of the tourist attractions. I would especially like to see a 49ers football game, even though they are not living up to expectations this season. I have been a fan for over 20 years though.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Hey, Mezz ...

Here's a place I just found out about: Ubuntu There's a link to the restaurant's web site on the page. Also Ubuntu takes vegetarian cuisine to new heights review includes panoramoc photo ofthe interior.

If you're going to be in Berkeley, you might want to visit the Acme Bakery for choices of some of the better loaves in the area: Acme Bread Co. There's also a bakery in San Fran at the Ferry Building Acme Bread Company . Right next door to the Berkeley bakery, sharing the same parking lot, is a little hole-in-the-wall called Cafe Fanny. Fanny is the name of Alice Waters' daughter, which should give you a hint about the ownership of this little place. Small menu, mostly outdoor seating. It's a joy in the morning to get some fresh-baked, still warm bread or rolls from Acme, grab some OJ or Peets' coffee at the cafe, maybe a wonderful egg dish, and sit outside. A very "Berkeley" scenario and experience. Nothing at all fancy, but everything perfect!

shel


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

Thank you, Shel! Cafe Fanny sounds lovely, and the smell of freshly baked bread with a mug of good coffee... great way to ease into the day.

It's being added to my notes.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Mezz ... I forgot to post the web site link to the café... as you can see, it's really small and simple :smiles:

Cafe Fanny

shel


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Acme bread....there is a fun story behind the originator....he was in college, was it Stanford or Berkley. Making starters and breads in his dorm room....had the passion for baking. Started out at Chez Panisse and then moved on to his own bakery.

I'm trying to remember what year I had Acme bread at CP......it's been at least 15 years and I still remember the fresh searred off tuna nicoise salad with tiny olives on the table to nibble and this incredible chewy, crisp crust gorgeous bread. 

Cafe Fanny's cookbook has kid recipes but the one that comes to mind is the granola.....and the fact that Fanny's mom spent an enormous amount of time/energy in packing her lunches. Many of us did for our children too, but Alice went way way beyond.....gotta love her.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Yeah, that's a pretty well known story around here, but this is a real "bread" town. I love going to the bakery in Berkeley - for such a major player in the bread market, the shop is small, however, as I understand it, it's a 24/7 operation.

I stop at the bakery as often as possible to get fresh baked bread. Not that it can't be had from any number of markets, but the bakery, of course, has everything they make. Some pretty amazing loaves and wonderful rolls - plus it's all organic.

Nothing beter than a fresh roll and a glass of fresh, organic OJ at Fanny's, sitting outside in the warm late morning sun, stricking up conversations with strangers.

The granola is Really Great - and I don't even like granola.

shel


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Ferry Plaza on Sat. mornings has a prolific amount of incredible baked goods...trully a glutton's glutin paradise. Acme has a stall there, Frog Hollow has one of the indoor bakeries, just really top quality baked products at every turn.....even lavendar honey and fresh jersey butter was available too...

Shel, your world is idyllic. I considered living in Berkley or Madison 10 years ago.....STL won out....your thread reminds me why Berkley was one of the three.


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

*Berkeley's Gourmet Ghetto :* A few words and history of the "Ghetto."

_"... it's a way of approaching life that makes living a true pleasure and deeply connects you to the earth and to other people through the medium of food." _

shel


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

hmmmmmm........that's been my SF/ Berkley experience.....


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

Cafe Fanny will be a Berkeley stop!

I spent years cutting carbs and rarely eating bread, but when I did, I always tried to make it _good_ bread. I still have to watch carbs closely (I'm diabetic due to medications I have to take). But Acme's and, as Shel and Shroom are saying, so many others in the Bay area, there's a promise of a lot of breat worth eating.:lips:


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

not only bread, but olives, cheeses, fruits, seafood......
Dr. Art Lang....Happy Apple booth at the market behind Ferry Plaza has some incredible dried fruit....and chocolate dipped satsumas.
bread is exceptional though, it'd be hard to pick at the FP.


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## mikelm (Dec 23, 2000)

Mezz-

OK, so you don't like museums, but:

If you go to Monterey and don't spend a day at the Aquarium, you will have missed the high point of your trip! 

Mike


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Another vote for the Monterey Bay Aquarium. While in the area, the 17 Mile Drive might be nice - a lot of people seem to like it - as would a visit to the Steinbeck Museum in Salinas.

South of Big Sur is the Hearst "Castle" and Hearst Ranch. My wife and I enjoyed that.

shel


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

third on the Aquarium.....they actually have a ray petting pool.....really neat!
We used to stay at Pejaro (sp?) Dunes between Carmel and Monterrey....you can watch the sea otters break open shelled bivalves on their tummies.
It's near Gilroy as in Garlic Fest the end of July, also artichokes in Castroville.....if you keep driving south, one of my favorite towns is Solvang....they've got incredible danish cookie shops and Aveskivers with whipped cream and raspberry jam kiosk. Well, there's also the lace shops and antiques etc...but an aveskiver street shop is too cool.....oh yeah the ocean's pretty too.


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