# What separates a good chef from a great chef?



## chef brah (Oct 10, 2016)

As tickets get fired and adrenaline kicks in, I can feel a certain level of addiction in this job...but i am very new and i have a lot to learn..i am getting faster and more efficient but i want to ask this..

at what point will exec chef start to see a good chef from a great chef who is worth investing time in and worth mentoring?

my goals in this industry are simple: work next 4 years mastering my skills in high end dining and then get into fast casual business but by then i want to learn all about managing costs, inventory, relationship with suppliers, marketing of a restaurant....but what personality and core traits that separate a good chef who does satisfactory job from someone who stands out ?


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

A good chef does things well.  A great chef influences the whole kitchen every level down to the overnight cleaners in the dining room even though they have zero contact.


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

This is an interesting and complex question.  The way you're using the term it sounds like you mean 'line cook'?  The ones I take under my wing are the ones that obviously have a work ethic.  That really is first and foremost.  I did once have a very hardworking fellow that worked me that, sadly, was a shoemaker- he tried for years but just didn't have any ability to cook at all.  But for most people simply showing up every day and working harder than the cook next to you will put you in rare air.

When it comes to cooks and chefs I think you need to be reasonably bright.  Not a rocket surgeon but possessing practical intelligence.  You need to be able to face the fire without  getting rattled (although this takes time to attain for most people).  A good chef needs to have a combination of humility and curiousity as well.  Humility because no matter how much you know someone else will always know more, and there will always be more to learn- you need to be open to it.  You need to be curious because no one will walk into the kitchen and explain it all to you.  You need a good work ethic because this is hard work and the rewards are not seen right away, if ever. 

Compassion and emotional intelligence is also a requirement to really be good at this job.  About 90% of the problems you face as a chef are people problems, and if you dig deep enough most of the other 10% are on some level too.  You need EQ to understand your staff for lots of reasons. The first, I suppose, is the simple mercenary need to understand how to motivate them.  Some will want to grow and learn while others just want a paycheck.  Some want more responsibility and to advance in their craft while others appreciate the flexibility to pursue their passions outside of work.  

And you better have those, passions outside of work.  It's easy to make your whole life about the job but that is the quickest path to burnout and dissatisfaction.

Last is probably skills and palette.  To a great degree you can and will learn those things as you go along.  There are lots of guys and gals that have a lot of technical skills yet drag down the kitchen they work in.  After 25+ years in the kitchen I'd say cooking is the easy part.


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## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

Your mind and how much people are willing to pay for your food. There's a lot of hacks and really talented chefs out there. It's a fine line between the two.


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## bonnj (Apr 30, 2017)

Very good thread...thank you to everyone who posted.


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## zeppo shanski (Dec 4, 2016)

"Not a rocket surgeon ..."

That's funny.


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## recky (Oct 15, 2012)

Phaedrus has hit the nail on the head. I have nothing to add, except perhaps that you will also need the ability to concentrate extremely hard, almost like the aforementioned 'rocket surgeon'.

Cheers,

Recky


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## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

I kind of beg to differ. Some of the most respected chefs that I have ever worked for were bullshit artists. I respected them because they found a way to make it. And convince people they knew what they were doing. I worked under a couple of truly talented, gifted chefs but they gave up their life to cook food. Not for me. Cooking is art, they sell paintings for 10 dollars and 10 million dollars. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

hookedcook said:


> I kind of beg to differ. Some of the most respected chefs that I have ever worked for were bullshit artists. I respected them because they found a way to make it. And convince people they knew what they were doing. I worked under a couple of truly talented, gifted chefs but they gave up their life to cook food. Not for me. Cooking is art, they sell paintings for 10 dollars and 10 million dollars. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder


But..............These B.S. artists were smart enough to pull it off right?

As you said they found a way to make it work.

To you, it may seem that these Chefs gave up their life for work, but try looking at it from the point of view, that if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

> Originally Posted by *Chefross*
> 
> if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life.


So true...

mimi


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## jvkolich (May 2, 2017)

Phaedrus said:


> This is an interesting and complex question. The way you're using the term it sounds like you mean 'line cook'? The ones I take under my wing are the ones that obviously have a work ethic. That really is first and foremost. I did once have a very hardworking fellow that worked me that, sadly, was a shoemaker- he tried for years but just didn't have any ability to cook at all. But for most people simply showing up every day and working harder than the cook next to you will put you in rare air.
> 
> When it comes to cooks and chefs I think you need to be reasonably bright. Not a rocket surgeon but possessing practical intelligence. You need to be able to face the fire without getting rattled (although this takes time to attain for most people). A good chef needs to have a combination of humility and curiousity as well. Humility because no matter how much you know someone else will always know more, and there will always be more to learn- you need to be open to it. You need to be curious because no one will walk into the kitchen and explain it all to you. You need a good work ethic because this is hard work and the rewards are not seen right away, if ever.
> 
> ...


This level of advice, and knowledge you are able to pass on gives me all the more love and respect for this craft.

People like you, and the knowledge you have to share, inspire me beyond words.

Thank you!


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

> at what point will exec chef start to see a good chef from a great chef who is worth investing time in and worth mentoring?


Attitude and teachability are the primary traits that I look for. Skills, knowledge, experience, etc will constantly be growing and expanding if attitude and teachability are solidly entrenched; if not, it is an uphill battle.

Simple math...an uphill battle...or a malleable journey...which do I choose when looking for candidates?


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## chefappleby (Apr 20, 2017)

JVKolich said:


> Phaedrus said:
> 
> 
> > This is an interesting and complex question. The way you're using the term it sounds like you mean 'line cook'? The ones I take under my wing are the ones that obviously have a work ethic. That really is first and foremost. I did once have a very hardworking fellow that worked me that, sadly, was a shoemaker- he tried for years but just didn't have any ability to cook at all. But for most people simply showing up every day and working harder than the cook next to you will put you in rare air.
> ...


By far and away, IMO, it's how you treat people. And I mean EVERYBODY. A know it all Cook/Chef who makes world class food will get his or her glory no doubt, but a person who has the respect of the crew I feel counts for more. That mean you jump in anywhere needed, dishes, prep, cleaning, you name it. You work hard, and listen and get to know what your crews strengths are. Being a professional to me, is no different than the difference between boss and leader.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## heidicookssuppe (Apr 16, 2017)

I am a food consumer, a restaurant customer if you will, and to me being a great chef means first of all having the love of food.  Yes, you can fail even if you have a love of food by being a lousy employee/employer/worker/manager/service provider, etc.  Do any of those things wrong and you are less likely to achieve the success that provides you with the freedom that allows the exercise of your food genius.  But, fundamentally, you cannot be a great chef if your food is pedestrian.  You cannot be a great chef if your flights of food fancy appeal only to you.  You cannot be a great chef unless you make food that is marvelous and beloved by those who eat it.  You must respect the food and those who eat it by applying your genius to it.


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## chefonfire (May 8, 2010)

HeidiCooksSuppe said:


> I am a food consumer, a restaurant customer if you will, and to me being a great chef means first of all having the love of food. Yes, you can fail even if you have a love of food by being a lousy employee/employer/worker/manager/service provider, etc. Do any of those things wrong and you are less likely to achieve the success that provides you with the freedom that allows the exercise of your food genius. But, fundamentally, you cannot be a great chef if your food is pedestrian. You cannot be a great chef if your flights of food fancy appeal only to you. You cannot be a great chef unless you make food that is marvelous and beloved by those who eat it. You must respect the food and those who eat it by applying your genius to it.


Lets keep this thread to professionals working in food service please.


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## the apostate (Jan 11, 2011)

Chefonfire said:


> Lets keep this thread to professionals working in food service please.


Thanks


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## sweetrub (Jun 27, 2017)

A good chef can cook his ass off..... A great chef can cook his ass off AND manage to turn a profit for his restaurant while doing it.


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

I'd offer off the top of my head that a single important trait of a great chef is the ability to set a good example for others to follow, but most importantly that they actually ARE following it. They're a leader who actually leads, and those who follow them are doing so willingly and with complete confidence in their Chef.

With that now definitively stated, in practice it's actually more a matter of perception. Perception by those he or she interacts with--cooks, management, owners, clients, and at a certain level even the media. And in my experience, aside from obviously basic (and I do mean basic) knowledge and skills, the aforementioned BS factor plays a significant part in this. Again, this is based on my personal experience, which is moderate, but certainly no where near as extensive as some other respected veteran pros in here.

Consider that last sentence a disclaimer. I have worked with respected, trained, veteran Chefs, some of which have been on "the tube". Upon meeting them, their reputations preceded them and I therefore issued them the appropriate respect and courtesy, and conveyed my sense of honor in working with them. However, UPON working with them, the pewter beneath the silver inevitably exposes itself. A reputable chef can strut around the Kitchen like they invented the concept, but they really can't hide in it. The work is the work, the skills (or lack thereof) are the skills, the judgement and decisions and multitasking and delegation skills are what they are. And the larger the discrepancy between the level of all that, and the "reputation" as a great Chef, the greater the BS factor present to bridge that gap.

I have seen great chefs who couldnt make Bernaise, frequently burned sauces, bread and everything else, cant multitask or delegate, or problem solve, yet still remain "great."

Conversely, Ive seen cooks who decidedly exceeded that Chef's level of competence and somehow did not achieve that great Chef status. Why? Well IMO one reason is they were honest and hardworking, but stlil failed to master that all important skill of all Great Chef skills.... the BS factor, and the resulting elevated ego. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif


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## icanburnanythin (Jun 24, 2017)

Chefross said:


> you never work a day in your life.


my lower back and feet disagree..


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

Meezenplaz said:


> I'd offer off the top of my head that a single important trait of a great chef is the ability to set a good example for others to follow, but most importantly that they actually ARE following it. They're a leader who actually leads, and those who follow them are doing so willingly and with complete confidence in their Chef.
> 
> With that now definitively stated, in practice it's actually more a matter of perception. Perception by those he or she interacts with--cooks, management, owners, clients, and at a certain level even the media. And in my experience, aside from obviously basic (and I do mean basic) knowledge and skills, the aforementioned BS factor plays a significant part in this. Again, this is based on my personal experience, which is moderate, but certainly no where near as extensive as some other respected veteran pros in here.
> 
> ...


SPOT ON!!!!


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## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

Meezenplaz said:


> I'd offer off the top of my head that a single important trait of a great chef is the ability to set a good example for others to follow, but most importantly that they actually ARE following it. They're a leader who actually leads, and those who follow them are doing so willingly and with complete confidence in their Chef.
> 
> With that now definitively stated, in practice it's actually more a matter of perception. Perception by those he or she interacts with--cooks, management, owners, clients, and at a certain level even the media. And in my experience, aside from obviously basic (and I do mean basic) knowledge and skills, the aforementioned BS factor plays a significant part in this. Again, this is based on my personal experience, which is moderate, but certainly no where near as extensive as some other respected veteran pros in here.
> 
> ...


Spot on agreed! The crazy thing that I shake ,my head and laugh at is I respect a bullshit artist chef just because some how, some way managed to convince people along the way that they belong there? But who am I to judge. If you are running a restaurant thats making a profit and guests leave full and happy, maybe you belong there? Fake it till you make it. This business is not normal so all rules go out the window!


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

A yes the BS factor...

Meez, I was one of those hard working honest souls that tried Cheffing 3 times in my career.

I lacked the BS quality and also the emotional stress coupled with working with idiots both in the BOH and FOH did me in.

I have worked with "Chefs" of all kinds in my career.

I have seen exactly what you're talking about with respect to how they expose themselves when presented with a situation in which their cooking skills come into practice.

I've seen sloppy.

I've seen dangerous behavior.

I've seen stupid and then some.

I even had one that fainted on the line, and another who didn't know what he didn't know.

Yup....been there....done that.


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## chef brah (Oct 10, 2016)

icanburnanythin said:


> my lower back and feet disagree..


u kinda get used to it after a while no?


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

No...not really.

Suffered ftom plantar fascitis for well over 6 years, never got used to the pain. When you o/o your own business, you can't quit, walk out, or put in 4 hr days only...


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

foodpump said:


> No...not really.
> 
> Suffered ftom plantar fascitis for well over 6 years, never got used to the pain. When you o/o your own business, you can't quit, walk out, or put in 4 hr days only...


No...but at least the boss will let you take a break and put your feet up! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif


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## icanburnanythin (Jun 24, 2017)

Chef Brah said:


> u kinda get used to it after a while no?


use to dealing with it.. sure i guess..it doesnt make it any easier though.. doing this in my late teens to early 20s is very different than my very late 30s for sure. my body just doesnt recover like it once did. if i didnt get off on the chaos and pressure.. id leave for sure. if i ever get a comfy hospital cook offer.. im gone.. but at the same time.. im restless if im off and not working in that environment.. i just like it... i could walk away at anytime, but i choose not to.. im just doing it as long as my body can take the beating...take being subjective though.... i feel 80 getting out of bed most mornings.. but eh, peoples gotz ta eat and peoples gotz ta feed them..


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Yeah.....feel like 80 in the am but 18 when you are dancing at the edge of the weeds ....good times.


mimi


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## rawprawn (Nov 12, 2015)

Read the phaedrus response and stop there. That guy or gal gets it 100%.


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

I'm a guy, and thanks.


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