# Oven for bakery



## georgemvg (9 mo ago)

Hello all! First post here and I need some help.
We, me and my sister have little experience about ovens, but we have managed to bake many things in a little convection oven without humidity settings, like cheesecakes, caneles, cookies, pasteis de nata, cakes, banana breads, cupcakes, granola. It is a little artisan cafe-sweet shop.
We want to upgrade our output. Maybe bake sourdough bread, croissants, etc etc.
Do you think we need both a deck oven and a rational oven?
Can you for example bake croissants to a deck oven without humidity settings?
I am a completely rookie at this, so excuse my ignorance.
Also, the equipment might be second hand, as we cannot afford a top notch Rational.
I can see that the latest models have touch screens and programs.
If I am not wrong, the difference from older Rationals, is only the automation? 
Is an older model capable of doing what the later self-coocking-center does? 
I am afraid when I see a lot of electronics, and I fear that should the later models break down, you will need a fortune to repair them.
Do deck ovens control humidity, or their only setting is the temperature, the source of the temperature and the humidity damper?


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Your fears are right, when a Rational oven does eventually break down 90% of the time it’s the electronics. But a Rational oven is designed for high volume catering and production not necessarily for baking. It does a decent job of baking—kind of the same way a Chevy Surburban does a decent job of driving your girlfriend to a fancy restaurant—but if you had a choice you’d choose a two seater sports car. The rational is still a convection oven even after you strip away all the fancy stuff, and you have no separate controls for top heat or bottom heat, but more importantly you have no steel or stone deck— hearth if you will, for hearth baked breads and pastries.

A good deck oven has separate controls for top heat, bottom heat, speed or intensity of the heat, some deluxe models have controls for the first 1/4 of the oven—nearest to the door, and of course a damper to regulate the humidity. You can get an addition steam generator for each deck, this is a separate box that takes water and electricity and generates steam on demand, pumping steam into the oven cavity through vents. This is desirable for many types of bread, but not an absolute for croissants.

If you have a bakery supplier nearby I’d suggest you check them out and have a good look, ask questions, collect brochures, and start looking at chosen mnfctrs websites.

Hope this helps


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## JohnDB (10 mo ago)

Good deck ovens aren't cheap either. And on backorder for 40+ weeks. You are probably going to have to find a used one if you want it inside the next 6 months. 
A used Tom Chandley deck oven is probably going to be your best choice. A Baker's Pride deck oven might get you by as well. 

Now these things are electricity hogs as well. So most baking is going to be done during the graveyard shift. (Turning off the decks except for one during service hours)

They take a while to heat up or cool down. Like an hour to warm up. But these ovens will bake like nothing else. 

And like already mentioned...a thick stone slab for a hearth is necessary. And for the chambers to seal completely or open up and vent the steam.


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## georgemvg (9 mo ago)

I am in Europe, and I do not know these models. Most good manufacturers are from Germany, Italy, Spain. And if I choose a modular stackable design, it is about 5000 watt per floor.
What about the newer Rationals versus old? There are too many models available second hand. The ssc have the touch screen, but older models can be also programmed for different steps throughout the baking…


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## JohnDB (10 mo ago)

https://chandleyovens.co.uk/
This one is made in the UK. Been around a while and are usually faithful.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Europe is the best place to find a good deck oven. You really need to source a local bakery equipment supplier and see what they have. I can’t say that one brand is better than others, they are all good reliable brands

This is the second time you mention 2nd hand Rational ovens, and for the second time I am saying that Rational or even convection ovens are not the best choice for a bake shop that produces multiple pastry and bread items. They ( convections) do work, but the results will not compare to competitors who bake with deck ovens.

Unless you have baked with a deck oven you won’t know how individual top heat and bottom heat—each with its own intensity controls, provide a superior bake to any individual tray convection oven. ( high volume bakeries do have convection ovens where a loaded trolley of 18-24 trays is pushed in, but these are completely different from a regular convection).

So, remember this : with deck ovens you manipulate the controls to suit the product, with convections you manipulate the product to suit the oven


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## georgemvg (9 mo ago)

Ok, I see your point.
The hearth stone is something you need for all kinds of baking, or some need only steel plate?
What is the difference between a pizza oven and a deck oven?


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## JohnDB (10 mo ago)

georgemvg said:


> Ok, I see your point.
> The hearth stone is something you need for all kinds of baking, or some need only steel plate?
> What is the difference between a pizza oven and a deck oven?


A THICK steel plate can replace a hearth stone/rock. And there are a few deck ovens out there that have this option.

A sealed chamber that has a vent control for venting steam or not PLUS a system for steam injection into the chamber is the difference between a true bread baking oven vs a pizza oven. A pizza oven has no venting damper control or steam control.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Deck ovens come standard with a steel deck, but usually for an additional upcharge you can get stone decks. The stone retains heat better but if abused will crack. The steel decks if abused will warp. For an additional upcharge you can get each deck outfitted with a steam generator. You can get decks with one, two, three, four, etc sheetpan capacity and stack them ontop of each other. You can run only one deck even if you have three decks stacked on top of each other, but yes, they are power pigs.

Big difference between pizza and deck ovens is price. Pizza ovens have lower crowns ( the crown is the distance from the hearth to the inside top of the oven), so baking bread in Pullman or other forms isn’t really doable. Pizza ovens are designed to run at higher temps—450-550 F or 280-320 C and many don’t really perform well at lower temps needed for pastry, they also have fewer controls, and many have no damper controls

Never, ever, ever try to buy a baking oven at a restaurant supply store, because If they can’t sell you a crappy convection oven then they’ll try to sell you a crappy Pizza oven. You need to contact a bakery equipment dealer for a “ real” baking oven.

I can’t really tell you which brand to buy. If you’re in Sweden, Dahlen is very reputable, if in Germany, Winkler-Wachtler is highly regarded. You need to buy from a local bakery equipment dealer because this is the one who will be installing and servicing your equipment—online dealers can’t or won’t help you with equipment problems other than sell you stuff.

Hope this helps


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## georgemvg (9 mo ago)

I found one local manufacturer and dealer, who has Salva, Miwe and some others. And he has only bakery equipment.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

That’s good! Now you can go to their showroom and actually take a good look, get an idea of price, warranty, delivery fees, etc. No one said you have to buy, but you will have a much better understanding when you see the equipment in person.


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## georgemvg (9 mo ago)

Yes thats true. Thank you! I will return with news!


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## georgemvg (9 mo ago)

Hi all! I eventually bought a Miwe condo, 4 deck oven, with electronic controls and manual damper. I thought it had stones, but it turned out that it is a steel deck. Anyway, hope I will manage with it.
Thank you all for your help!


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## JohnDB (10 mo ago)

georgemvg said:


> Hi all! I eventually bought a Miwe condo, 4 deck oven, with electronic controls and manual damper. I thought it had stones, but it turned out that it is a steel deck. Anyway, hope I will manage with it.
> Thank you all for your help!


You can replace the steel with stones....you will lose about a ½" or one centimeter of height but you can still have the stone decks. It's somewhat pricey to replace the deck and the stone is subject to breaking....but it is a possibility.


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