# When to Fire?



## fledgling (Jan 13, 2007)

We have an idiot working in our kitchen. I won't go into details, but I will say, she is a complete kitchen idiot. She does NOTHING, she slows things down, and she can't stop injuring herself (she's got a great big burn mark on her face that will probably not go away). She's adamantly refused to do her job. Yet she still works at my workplace. We need bodies most of the time, but she's a full-timer and works intimately with the more valuable employees, who can't stand her. What does it take to get fired?


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

No time like the present.


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## jayme (Sep 5, 2006)

It takes a KM or exec that is paying attention..... doesn't sound likes your's is.... hang in there!


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## chef_oz (Mar 7, 2006)

Make sure you have documentation of every incident. 
If not, then you could be digging a grave. 
just food for thought!

GO CHARGERS!!!!
:beer:


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## rob p. (Jan 1, 2007)

My suggestion is to consider moving her away from the hot or sharp pointy objects so she stops hurting herself FIRST since this is your absolute obligation as her employer or supervisor. Then, after an appropriate (re)training period and review, if she doesn't measure up, I'd _consider _terminating her employment. I would also consult with a HR mgr or employment atty before making a final decision.

If you terminate her now knowing she's been injured at work you're opening a HUGE can of worms with almost limitless liability potential. Document, document, document EVERYTHING from a fair and unbiased standpoint that gives the employee more than enough chances to work for you in some position. Remember, from a business standpoint, spending 5-10 grand on wages, retraining employees, better job skills, and stuff like that is a LOT cheaper than spending 500 thou to 1 million in legal fees and judgements. Been here, done this and am richer because of it.

I find that most employers' documentation is insufficient and that their "reviews" are little more than complaint and humiliation sessions. Be fair. Be MORE THAN fair and have clear documentation that doesn't just point out her shortcomings in offensive language. And it needs to say more than "get with the program or you're fired".

Last, calling someone an "idiot" and asking how to fire them speaks loud and clear as to the type of issues she has to put up with at work. Not insulting anyone (even if it seems like it) with this statement. Just pointing out that most people believe that they are the best-of-the-best in the entire world. If that's the case then the rest of us make at least one mistake once in awhile. It's why WE aren't "the-best-of-the-best" and you are. So, give us a break and find out why we made the mistake so we won't do it anymore BEFORE you rag on us about it. Remember, we're clueless and you're perfect. Help us out a bit, eh?


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## chef_oz (Mar 7, 2006)

this is right but from a chef/managers point of view its very stereotypical of an employee that's had trouble in the past "imho"

Go LT !!! Go Big D :bounce:


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## suzanne (May 26, 2001)

And here I thought from the title that this thread was going to be about expediting. :look:


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## blueicus (Mar 16, 2005)

Heh, I know . I could certainly use some pointers on that  (and possibly the other part sometime in the distant future).


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## fledgling (Jan 13, 2007)

We've already moved several people like her into the dishpit. She actually slows down the dishpit and is currently assembling the sandwiches, which greatly angers the garde manger chef because she doesn't know how to roll burritos/wraps, and if she's consistent with product she goes extremely slow, and if she goes at a more efficient speed, her consistency is hideous. We just don't know what to do with her.


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## dmt (Jul 28, 2006)

Fledge,
Hope that management moves her to the wait staff??
More importantly, I'd suggest that as a culinary student, working in a kitchen, that you take this opportunity to observe how the situation is resolved and learn from the experience.
The above suggestions are made based upon looking at your profile, and presuming that you are not responsible for hiring/firing/transfers.
No slam on your capabilities or desire to excel, but this would be a good time to just sit back and watch how things unfold...


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## daiz (Jan 16, 2007)

Like someone said, take notes of all of her actions, ok its annoying when your trying to work but shes annoying you right ? so put the time in recording it down, then sit down with your boss or even her and rip her a new *******. Show her whos boss else she is laughing at you to be honest


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## sucrechef (Sep 1, 2005)

Has anyone actually talked to this person??? It's just possible that she doesn't understand what her responsibilities are or exactly how she is expected to perform. Is there a valid reason why she cannot get the work done in the same time it might take someone else? You may be dealing with a person who simply takes a longer time to learn a task. She may have some sort of disability which you don't necessarily see, but which LEGALLY forces you to make reasonable accomodations to allow for this disability. Unless and until you have ALL the facts, you must be very careful in how you approach even the potential for firing someone.


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## panonthefire (Jan 15, 2007)

You have some very good advice now, dont forget the legal aspect of this problem because you dont want to let it back fire to you.

On the oder side, at the place of getting her fire, try to make her quit the job.. It is a nasty and bad way off dealing with that employee but maybe necessary.

change her schedual every week, twice in the same week, make her do back to back shift, refuse her vocations, shedual her and when she shows up to work tell her that you dont need her that day, dont give her a raise...bring pop-up function at the last minute, you got to make her uncomfortable in your enterprise...Bad way but i have seen it before.


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## rob p. (Jan 1, 2007)

It's also called "constructive termination" and it's possibly ILLEGAL so don't do this. Stand up straight, be honorable and do it correctly. Otherwise you're no better than the next dumptruck with a load of bovine scat in the hopper.


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## panonthefire (Jan 15, 2007)

It can also be called "hidden termination". I guess it all depends where you live and what are the laws over there and how strong they are applied.

I agree that to be honorable and doing the right thing is the thing to do. But sometime doing the wrong thing is the right way to do it. as a lawer you can understand that, right? 

And I dont think that anybody becomes a "dumptruck with a load of boivine scat in the hopper" if they want to get rid off an employee that is hurting is business.

You do it the right way, or the twisted way, you still end up getting rid off an employee. If you fire him the legal way, the right way he might come back with legal issue himself and try to drill you a new one also.

If he leaves by himself, well he leaves by himself. and that cost a lot less to the enterprise.


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## the_seraphim (Dec 25, 2006)

my employer makes it clear when your hired that your only contracted for 5 hours per week (even for full-time work) and if you screw them around then you get those 5 hours over 3 or 4 days ... say bring you in at 10am to do all the prep or at 9pm to do all the close down...

i dont know wether its illegal as youve been told in advance what to expect... but i dont mind as my employer also operates a "you scratch my back ill scratch yours" policy in terms of "i need you to work in about 2 hours... thanks i owe you one" and you find your outrageous holiday request authorised next week lol

do a peer review of the situation... get her opinion on her performance then tell her what you think then get her to make suggestions as to her performance... also make sure the other guys/girls arent being mean and are being helpfull


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## myron (Jan 18, 2007)

Appears we may have some role clarity issues here. First of all, the culinary student doesn't get anyone fired. And few culinary students have had enough training in the area of human resources to fully understand what it takes to initiate a termination without ending up in court.
My suggestion, like some of the others, is that you focus on being the best culinary student you can and not concern yourself with whether or not a fellow employee remains as a part of the team. If this employee's performance directly affects your work, report the specifics of the incident(s) to your supervisor. Otherwise, watch and learn.


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## blueicus (Mar 16, 2005)

I agree with Myron, you are not the boss, leave the hiring and firing to the managers, although if you do have a severe problem with a coworker you can bring it up with them.

Also, from your previous posts it seems like you're either working in a place with complete morons or you're being a bit too quick to opinionate about other people. Just make sure you're doing your stuff right and worry about other people if you're in a position to need to worry about them.

Finally, the last thing about working with people is that if you don't expect to bend yourself fully to their specifications don't expect them to do the same for you. Part of working together (especially when you're not the superior) is adjustment and compromise.


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## rob p. (Jan 1, 2007)

No. My honor refuses to permit it of myself and I do not allow my clients to do so and remain my clients. I do not give second chances to those who think to test me on this. Rightly or wrongly I will not work for those who believe as you appear to believe and should I discover such an attitude during initial or subsequent conferences I will terminate my agreement with the client. It comes down to it being your bed and I will not be forced to lie about how well or how poorly it's made.

Promises made are promises to be kept. Otherwise don't make them. Don't even imply them.


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## brittany (Dec 23, 2006)

How long has this person worked here? In Canada we have a three month period where a person can be terminated and there will be no legal issues. Why was she not terminated then?
Also, everyone has their talent. There must be something that she does alright. There has to be. 
One last thing. There will be millions of times in your career when you feel someone is not pulling their weight but you are not in a position to do anything aobut it. IF you focus on it, you will loose your mind:crazy: 
Just let your chef handle it. Dont rely on her for anything and maybe even work like shes not even there. Eventually she will get the message. If not, well, its just her time shes wasting.


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## habman (Jan 4, 2007)

My method of dealing with an employee like this is too find them another job. 

It works like a charm every time I've done it, and it removes all the problems that come with letting someone go.


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## cheflusch (Mar 3, 2006)

I'm with suzanne on this one...isn't it right after the ticket comes in?


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Depends? I get the ticket as an order not a...


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