# fleur de sel



## brook (Oct 27, 1999)

I'm curious about the difference between fleur de sel and sea salt. Is one a fancy name for the other? Can they be used interchangeably?


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## logose (Nov 15, 2000)

It is a name for the natural sea salt from Brittany France.


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

And the difference in taste is huge. Definitely try some if you have the chance.


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

What clarified butter is to butter FDS is to standard sea salt. It is obtained by skiming the top layer of foamy seawater that has been admitted to the evaporating ponds.

King Arthur Flour sells several types of FDS.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Fleur de Sel "The Champagne of Sea Salt" is a very special gourmet sea salt.

Delicate and exquisite fine moist granules of creamy-white unrefined Fleur de Sel sea salt are traditionally harvested (mostly by women) by skimming the surface of the sea water of the salt marshes. For every 80 pounds of sel gris produced, only three pounds of Fleur de Sel is harvested.

The best one is Certified Organic from Guérande: hand-harvested, unrefined, unbleached, and chemical-free.

Best used as a finishing salt.

I found an interesting website. 
Just click here for more.

[ August 14, 2001: Message edited by: Kimmie ]


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

I have some FDS de Guerand. The flavor is very, very sharp when tasted alone; it almost stings the tongue. It tastes great, however, when sprinkled on a slice of bread covered with butter.


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## monpetitchoux (Apr 24, 2001)

Want to hear something extravagant? The pastry chef I work with insists only on using Fleur de Sel in his pastries and desserts. Pierre Herme does the same. I must admit that I am also a primadonna when it comes to Fleur de Sel. I always used it, even in cooking school, for everything (whether baking or cooking). I figured I had paid for school, so I was going to use only the best ingredients they had to offer. Guerand also graces my shelf.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

It graces my shelves too! I think I ought to use it more often and leave the guilt behind. Thanks for your post, monpetitchoux!


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

I've been using fleur de sel very parsimoniously until last week. Enough I told my self use it and when the box is empty get a new one, it won’t ruin you. It’s with that thought in mind that I used it on a fresh herb foccacia. It was worth it and I’ll do it again!


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

I've been using fleur de sel very parsimoniously until last week. Enough I told my self use it and when the box is empty get a new one, it won’t ruin you. It’s with that thought in mind that I used it on a fresh herb foccacia. It was worth it and I’ll do it again!


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

I like a variety of salts, I enjoy gris as well as fds.....interesting how prevasive it has become in the past few years....wonder if it's like buffalo mozz where alot more is sold than actually produced...thoughts?


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

What do yo mean Shroomgirl?


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

I think she is suggesting that some FDS may not exactly be legit  A Morton in FDS clothing!


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Bingo!


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Thanks to you both!


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## silviston (Feb 4, 2010)

hello,


The main difference between these two is of taste the taste of both the food are quite differ Fleur de Sel "The Champagne of Sea Salt" is a very special gourmet sea salt. 



thanks!!

_____________


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

If you can taste that your _fleur de sel_ is the ocean in a grain of salt, you don't want that lost in the shuffle. But if you get much the same flavor, or an equally exciting one, from another "gourmet" salt, the two can be used, if not interchangeably, then at least competitively. For example, I find that Hawaiian black and pink salts have a peculiar oceany flavor that is quite different from _fleur de sel_, and in my experience they are also very dry and hard, giving a very different sort of texture. For reasons I can't entirely explain, something about Hawaiian pink salt reminds me of flavors I loved in Kyoto, so when I make Japanese food that needs finishing with salt, I finish with the pink stuff, and I find _fleur de sel_ somehow peculiar in this context -- I don't know how to explain it, but somehow _fleur de sel_ seems slightly squishy, perhaps because the sorts of Japanese dishes that need finishing with salt are the ones that are not themselves squishy, which is rare enough that you don't want to undermine it with a moist salt. Does that make sense?

Anyway, it's in my opinion something to play with. As Shroomgirl notes, a good deal of what gets sold in the supermarket as _fleur de sel_ isn't, quite, but on the other hand I think it's close enough that you can fool around and learn something -- and the price means you can do it with impunity.

For what it's worth, Julia Child never accepted any of this stuff about salt. She used iodized granulated salt exclusively. When asked by Alex Prud'homme about this, about gourmets who insist on kosher salt or _fleur de sel_ or whatever, she said gaily, "f**k 'em!"

Good old Julia!


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Couple of things amuse me about the gourmet salt thing, in general, and Fleur de Sel in particular.

It wasn't that long ago that if you tried selling Fleur de Sel in the U.S. you'd be shut down for selling a contaminated and adultrated product. Now you get a premium price for it. Ain't marketing grand!

The other is the number of people who use what is an expensive finishing salt as cooking salt, and then insist they can taste the difference. Gimme a break. 

Got a question. First some background. When you set up a natural evaporative pond, the first crystals to form are larger than others coming from that batch of sea water. It's the nature of the beast, recognized at least since Roman times.

Fleur de Sel are those first-layer crystals, from the ponds in the Brittany marshes. That water, among other things, is adultrated by the sands and clays of those marshes. That's what provides both the colors and special taste.

So, here's the query: Does anybody here seriously suggest that Fleur de Sel tastes any differently than the balance of the salt coming from those ponds? 

Consider too: If there is widespread misrepresentation of Fleur de Sel (and I don't question that at all), and the people who buy it rave about the difference it makes to their food, what does that tell us? Is taste found on the tongue? Or in the head?


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

here we go again with the big salt debate:

chemical fact: when sea water is evaporates, mineral crystals form. The first mineral to form is salt (Sodium Chloride or NaCl). As the water evaporates to a salty brine (but not completely) what is left behind is 99.9% pure NaCl crystals. Crystallization is actually a chemical purifying method (that is how white sugar is made).

Fleur de sel, Kosher salt, etc... will all taste exactly the same when dissolved in water in equal weights.

these salts when apply topically (on the surface of foods) will taste different because they melt (dissolve) at different rates on the tongue stimulating the taste buds differently.

Salt is probably the most abundant and cheapest material on earth. It seems marketers make a good job to hype the rarity or exclusivity to make a HUGE profit. Easy to make a huge profit on something that cost pennies a pound. Often the box is more expensive than what's in it.

Want to make fleur de sel at home? 
Quick method: use a coffee grinder, pulverize kosher salt to a find powder. it will taste very similar.
slow method: Dissolve salt in boiling water until it dissolves no more. Place a cleaned rock so that it barely pokes out of the liquid. Evaporate the water (brine) with low heat. Better yet, place the pot in blaring sun for 1 day. Scrape only the fine crystals of pure salt off the rock (add rock powder for looks)... voilà! fleur de sel.

Fleur is an alchemist term that means the first flowering of fine crystals from evaporating mineral water. It is a purification technique particularly used for sulfur but since it's French it sound mysterious and cool!

Luc H.


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Hi KYH  I do quite enjoy fleur de sel. But when I taste (or use) topping salts I am as much using it for the varied flavors as the texture and structure of the particular salt. The different textures cause the salt to have a different release atop the food.

The two salts that that differ in texture/structure the most are fleur de sel and French Grey salt. The fleur de sel has a structure that melts with a quick *pop*, similar to a snowflake melting on your tongue. While the sel Gris is rock hard and course. Instead of providing a quick release in your mouth it lasts longer giving you a longer lasting dose of salt and the added texture too. I wouldn't put sel Gris on top of eggs but I would put it other places.

Of course sea water is dirty...that lends to some of the varying taste. I would also say that yes, fleur de sel does taste different than sel Gris taken from those same ponds. I actually went to my cupboard and tried the two side by side again...just to make sure before posting. But yes...they do have different flavors along with very different structure/texture which lends to a different delivery of salt when it's topping a dish. Even just looking at the difference you can see how the Grey salt has alot more contaminants. But then again...if you think about the harvesting methods it's not surprising.

Would I cook with *any* topping salt. Heck no! But that's the beauty of it. Fleur de sel may have a ridiculous price per pound. But you know what? I don't buy topping salt by the pound. You can get 3.5-4.0oz for a price that's less than two quarter pounder value meals at McDonald's. Personally I don't care to get a quarter pounder value meal at McDonald's anyway...and that little jar of topping salt will last me nearly a year. Which is using it for everyday topping. No matter if it's eggs in the morning for the kids or roasted chicken for dinner. Any time I want that quick delicate *pop*.

There certainly is alot of marketing with gourmet salts and other items. But there are certainly better places to buy these items from than gourmet shops. First off...for items other than salt...these stores don't have the turn around on any of the items to make them a valuable place to purchase anything! Why would I want to buy an overpriced "gourmet" olive oil that's been on the shelves for two years? No thank you. Turn over aside they charge a premium for everything, you're much better off buying many of these items from a reputable source online. I've seen fleur de sel sell for two and three times the price at these shops as you can get them for online.

To address the fact about cooking with some of these topping salts? well no...that would be silly.

my $0.03 
dan


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Oh No!

Luc posted while I was typing :blush: Maybe I can change my post to...I like salt

lol 
dan


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

Gonefishing (Dan),
you truly made me Laugh Out Loud (lol) with that last remark.
HEHEHE.
Luc H.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

It's not often that I get to disagree with Luc. But, in this case......

99.99999999% of what you just said is right on the money. Where we disagree is that your short tutorial demonstates how to make salt, but the result will not be fleur de sel.

First off, where salt is made by evaporating sea water, the crystals are raked out of the ponds, not scraped off a percipitating post. But that's a minor point. 

True fleur de sell is only made by evaporating the sea water that enters the marshes of coastal Brittany. And it refers strictly to the first raking of the crystals when they start to form in that pond. 

So what we have, Luc, is total agreement on the process. And total agreement on their being a lack of taste difference when used for anything but a finish salt. Just a difference in what it's called.

In point of fact, as you know, sea salt, produced exactly the same way, is done in many parts of Europe. The resulting product is just not called fleur de sel. 

I find it interesting, too, that this thread is more than nine years old and we're still arguing about it. :suprise:


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

KYH,
We are both on the same page! You crossed t's and dotted i's.
I always value your opinion. Let's push the process on how to make fleur the sel.

Just checking here....
do they rake out the salt crystals from the liquid sea brine or from the crusty dried up bottom once all the water has evaporated away? Maybe this is not quite the technique (I really do not know the details of the operation on how that is made in Brittany but my chemical insight says there is a right and wrong way to do this).

This is a loaded question!
Luc H.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Dan, I don't see where you're contradicting anything I said. Although I would submit that most people who make a big deal about these taste differences are merely echoing the foodie party line; that in a blind taste test they could not tell them apart.

_Of course sea water is dirty..._

There's no "of course" about it. Sea water is generally clean. The exception would be, in some cases, algae. Colored salt results not from the sea water, itself, but from the environment in which it's gathered. Soils, minerals, algae, and bacterial contaminents are the source of the colors. Evaporated salt, of itself, is pure white.

_To address the fact about cooking with some of these topping salts? well no...that would be silly._

But the fact is, many people---including some celebrity chefs---are not only doing that, they insist it makes a difference in taste.


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Hi KYH,

Have you tasted the two side by side?

I only ask because I can send you a sampling of each so you can try it side by side. You may very well come to the same conclusion that you currently have...but it's an offer if you would like it. 

dan


edit add:

I see your point about the harvesting method contaminating the sea salt, rather than the sea water itself, Good point.


I don't think I did contradict you on anything. You had made some points and I was just giving my vantage point on fleur de sel. 

The only small part is that I believe that I may disagree with, is that (I believe) there is a small flavor difference between fleur de sel and sel gris that's supposed to be harvested from the same ponds. 

I also didn't offer the samples as any sort of a challenge...just as an offer if you haven't tried them side by side.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

They rake out the salt crystals from the thin dried out layer at the surface of the liquid sea, every day for about a month from mid-July to mid-August.

Just like bottled water is more than just H2O, _Some _Fleur de sel contains more than just salt, and its taste is quite different from the taste of regular table salt, even once disolved in water. Fleur de Sel contains microscopic algae, magnesium and oligo elements.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Luc, I don't know how far we want to take this without boring everyone else to tears.

But, when the water in the ponds reaches the deionization point, the first newly formed (reformed?) crystals float on the surface. Those are the ones that are raked as fleur de sel. 

As the salinity gets more and more concentrated, crystals are found all over the pond: floating on the surface, suspended in the brine and precipitated out. Raking is a continuous process. 

I'm hazy on this point, but I don't believe the ponds ever reach the point where there is no water in them. I believe that at a certain point before that they are reflooded. But the constant raking has removed the vast majority of the crystals, and more or less kept them in suspension as well. 

I know that in parts of Portugal they also do a first raking for the "best" salt, but call it something else. I've no idea if other places do that first raking or not.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

_Have you tasted the two side by side?_

No, Dan, I haven't.


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## luc_h (Jun 6, 2007)

Results from Brittany SeaSalt (verbatim)
reference link: Facts/ Composition

GUERANDE SEA SALT ANALYSIS for Brittany Sea Salt
Chemical Analysis of Coarse Salt (4mm) Results 
Water insoluble 0.70 %
Moisture content at 110 C 10.34 % 
Chlorides 85.37 %NaCl
Sodium Chloride dry 95.2 %
Sulfates 1.26 %
Calcium total (Ca) 0.25 %
Magnesium total (Mg) 0.37 %
Potassium total (K) 0.09 %
Sodium total (Na) 32.90 %
Copper(Cu) .0300 ppm
Manganese total (Mn) 10.0 mg/kg 
Zinc (Zn) 0.8 mg/kg
Iron total (Fe) 250.00 mg/kg

This is a typical analysis of Brittany. Let me help you analyze this data :
what does water insoluble mean : anything not soluble in water : shell dust, rock, dust, insect parts,sand blown from the Sahara desert, hair, maybe algea as well… whatever…

lets add insoluble, sodium chloride (Nacl) and moisture content together : we get
0.70 + 95.2 + 10.34 = 106.24% 
off the bat don't you have a problem with this number being more than 100 for only 3 ingredients?

oh and we forgot to say there is also Magnesium, Calcium, copper, zinc, iron, sulfates, fairy dust, 100% dose of vitamin C and diamonds!!!

Clever marketing!

Luc H.


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Flor de Sal, Portugal's fleur de sel, is from Eastern Algarve of Portugal. It appears to be hand harvested from the top of the water, much the same as Fleur de sel. I've never tried it...I would assume it's similar in structure.

Here is a you tube video of some fleur de sel. I do not speak French so I have no idea if the people are indeed talking about the salt, developing the land or what??? It does appear that at the end they might be saying something about the birds adding a little flavor to the salt as well :talk:

YouTube - Les marais salants français, vieux de deux mille ans !

Here is a video of a man raking some early harvested salt

YouTube - Première récolte de Fleur de Sel par Olivier Chenelle

I'm not quite sure who you were talking about boring people with this stuff? Huh  Boring? No way!

edit add: another video...
YouTube - Au nom du sel



dan


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

Whilst I have fleur de sel in my pantry - I tend to use the East Anglian sea salt that is used by many British chefs - Maldon.


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