# Blind baking large amounts



## Victoria B (Dec 10, 2018)

So I need to blind bake about 100 pie crusts at a time. If I do this in smaller batches, let’s say 25 - 30 at a time, what’s a good way to blind bake them with pie weights? If I only had to do a few, I would use parchment and beans but I really don’t want to fill 20 pies with beans. Seems like a lot of beans. Baking them with nothing weighing them down never works no matter how many times I poke them with a fork. Any other ideas? What do bakeries use when they need to blind bake a large amount of pie crusts?


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## chefpeon (Jun 14, 2006)

What I've done is form the crust in the tin, then put another tin on top of it. Then flip it over. Bake them upside down for a few minutes then take the top tin off and bake for a little while longer til they are as baked as much as you want them to be.


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## sgsvirgil (Mar 1, 2017)

I think the above suggestion is a good one but, perhaps not very practical for bulk production. 

I think you're kinda stuck here. For a bulk production such as this, I think you're going to have to invest in large bag of dried beans. If you live in the States, you can get a 50lb bag for $25 - $50 at Sam's or Costco. 

It's well worth the investment if you handle large orders like this on a regular or semi regular basis. The beans can be reused repeatedly as long as they're stored properly. 

Good luck.


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## chefpeon (Jun 14, 2006)

@sgsvirgil, As a person that was employed by a high volume pie production house, I can tell you that inverting the tins was EXACTLY how we did it. Tins can be re-used multiple times as well.


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## sgsvirgil (Mar 1, 2017)

chefpeon said:


> @sgsvirgil, As a person that was employed by a high volume pie production house, I can tell you that inverting the tins was EXACTLY how we did it. Tins can be re-used multiple times as well.


I'm getting the vibe that you're rather defensive. If so, go back and re-read my comment. Take special note of the phrase "*I think the above suggestion is a good one"* in reference to your comment and take note of the word *"perhaps"* I used to preface the second half of my comment about your suggestion's practicality in a large volume operation. *
*
No need to get all red in the face here. Its just an internet chat forum. Its not the Bocuse d'Or.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Hmmm. I read it as just a statement of fact.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Well... no, because I’ve used the exact same system chefpeon describes for a zillion blind baked tarts. You know the ones, the “cheap-as-dirt-stamped-in-it’s-own-disposable-form” ones: Hot kitchen wants 250 for warm onion tart, Garde manger wants 400 for warm hors d’ouevres, and the place refuses to buy a sheeter or even wants to use butter in the crust. 

The system works brilliantly for mass production: Fill a sheetpan full of tart shells, drop an empty aluminum form in each tart. Place an upside down sheetpan on top of this, grasp both sheet pans and invert/flip upside down, and place this into the oven and bake. 

See, with filling a blind tart full of dried beans, gravity is your enemy. Ol’ gravity wants to pull your dough down, giving you low walled shells. 

With the upside down method, Ol’ gravity is your friend, it pulls the dough down on the upside down form, giving you high walled shells.

One way or the other gravity is going to pull down your dough, especially on sloped walls, so you might as well use it to your advantage.

I hate baking with beans. The best substitute I’ve used was small, smooth pebbles that I, um (cough) “liberated” from the bqt. waiters who used them for decor. When they get greasy, just toss them in a flat rack d/washing tray, and run ‘em through.


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## chefpeon (Jun 14, 2006)

@sgsvirgil, no, I'm not defensive. I simply meant that I have actually worked in a high volume pie factory,
and that method, by far, was the best way to do it. I figured my experience was relevant and used it to illustrate 
the fact that beans are NOT the preferred method.


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## sgsvirgil (Mar 1, 2017)

chefpeon said:


> @sgsvirgil, no, I'm not defensive. I simply meant that I have actually worked in a high volume pie factory,
> and that method, by far, was the best way to do it. I figured my experience was relevant and used it to illustrate
> the fact that beans are NOT the preferred method.


Very well. No harm no foul. 

Cheers!


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## Victoria B (Dec 10, 2018)

chefpeon said:


> @sgsvirgil, As a person that was employed by a high volume pie production house, I can tell you that inverting the tins was EXACTLY how we did it. Tins can be re-used multiple times as well.


Thank you! I really appreciate your experience and advice. I can definitely do this. I have one more concern, which I'm sure trial and error can answer, but perhaps you know. I use a wooden pie press as a design for the edges. Will the pressure/weight of inverting cause the edge to take the design of the other pan? Also, does the fan of convection blow the top pans off? Or should I leave a sheet pan on top?


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## Victoria B (Dec 10, 2018)

foodpump said:


> Well... no, because I've used the exact same system chefpeon describes for a zillion blind baked tarts. You know the ones, the "cheap-as-dirt-stamped-in-it's-own-disposable-form" ones: Hot kitchen wants 250 for warm onion tart, Garde manger wants 400 for warm hors d'ouevres, and the place refuses to buy a sheeter or even wants to use butter in the crust.
> 
> The system works brilliantly for mass production: Fill a sheetpan full of tart shells, drop an empty aluminum form in each tart. Place an upside down sheetpan on top of this, grasp both sheet pans and invert/flip upside down, and place this into the oven and bake.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much. The gravity explanation makes total sense. My only concern is that I use a wooden pie press as a design for the edges. Will the pressure/weight of inverting cause the edge to take the design of the other pan? Also, does the fan of convection blow the top pans off? Or should I leave a sheet pan on top? I'm sure trial and error will give me my answers but your experience is so valuable.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

The crust design should hold up to inverted baking. Yes you will need a sheet pan on top of the inverted shells while baking—this is not a lot of weight, and the weight is spread out over all the tarts.


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## Chef Graham (Feb 21, 2019)

Victoria B said:


> So I need to blind bake about 100 pie crusts at a time. If I do this in smaller batches, let's say 25 - 30 at a time, what's a good way to blind bake them with pie weights? If I only had to do a few, I would use parchment and beans but I really don't want to fill 20 pies with beans. Seems like a lot of beans. Baking them with nothing weighing them down never works no matter how many times I poke them with a fork. Any other ideas? What do bakeries use when they need to blind bake a large amount of pie crusts?


Hi Victoria , pie crusts for savoury or sweet goods ??


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## Victoria B (Dec 10, 2018)

I actually do both savory and sweet.


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## Chef Graham (Feb 21, 2019)

Victoria B said:


> I actually do both savory and sweet.


We bake hundreds and hundreds of pie bases , shells , tart bases etc etc per week and never blind bake , they come out perfect without shrinking ...x


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## chefpeon (Jun 14, 2006)

Chef Graham said:


> We bake hundreds and hundreds of pie bases , shells , tart bases etc etc per week and never blind bake , they come out perfect without shrinking ...x


Um....er.....when you bake a shell without filling in it, it's called blind baking. Are you trying to say you just form the shell the usual way and bake them upright instead of upside down? Is that what you meant?


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## Victoria B (Dec 10, 2018)

chefpeon said:


> Um....er.....when you bake a shell without filling in it, it's called blind baking. Are you trying to say you just form the shell the usual way and bake them upright instead of upside down? Is that what you meant?


I was confused too but, I'm guessing he/she meant for baked pies and quiche type foods. If I was making a custard or cream pie, I would of course need to blind bake and baking upright never works well. I will definatley be trying the upside down method soon.


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## Chef Graham (Feb 21, 2019)

chefpeon said:


> Um....er.....when you bake a shell without filling in it, it's called blind baking. Are you trying to say you just form the shell the usual way and bake them upright instead of upside down? Is that what you meant?


I mean we bake hundreds of pastry shells a week for various products without beans , without weights , without this upside down thing ..


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## Chef Graham (Feb 21, 2019)

Chef Graham said:


> I mean we bake hundreds of pastry shells a week for various products without beans , without weights , without this upside down thing ..


I think after 40 years of baking I know what blind baking is , thankyou


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## Chef Graham (Feb 21, 2019)

Victoria B said:


> I was confused too but, I'm guessing he/she meant for baked pies and quiche type foods. If I was making a custard or cream pie, I would of course need to blind bake and baking upright never works well. I will definatley be trying the upside down method soon.


wrong again , we bake both savoury and sweet without any beans , weights or upside do ya come from a land down under method !!! Been doing it now for the last 30 years so I would guess its working fine .. dont assume something before u ask the said person ..thankyou


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## Victoria B (Dec 10, 2018)

Chef Graham said:


> wrong again , we bake both savoury and sweet without any beans , weights or upside do ya come from a land down under method !!! Been doing it now for the last 30 years so I would guess its working fine .. dont assume something before u ask the said person ..thankyou


My apologies. I didn't mean to be negating your advice. I interpreted your comment as you didn't find a need to blind bake, that the bottom crusts come out well baked without it. For example, some people blind bake for quiche and others don't. I misunderstood. Thank you for you advice.

My next question to you is how you don't get shrinkage or puffing up of the crust. Every time I try to blind bake, the sides shrink down too far and several areas puff, no matter how much I dock it and whatever temperature I try. Is it because I use fresh dough? Do I need to freeze it and blind bake frozen?


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## Chef Graham (Feb 21, 2019)

Victoria B said:


> My apologies. I didn't mean to be negating your advice. I interpreted your comment as you didn't find a need to blind bake, that the bottom crusts come out well baked without it. For example, some people blind bake for quiche and others don't. I misunderstood. Thank you for you advice.
> 
> My next question to you is how you don't get shrinkage or puffing up of the crust. Every time I try to blind bake, the sides shrink down too far and several areas puff, no matter how much I dock it and whatever temperature I try. Is it because I use fresh dough? Do I need to freeze it and blind bake frozen?


MAIN REASON FOR SHRINKAGE IS OVER DEVELOPMENT OF GLUTEN IN YOUR DOUGH FORMULA
TRY TO WORK AS LIGHTLY AS YOU CAN WITH YOUR GIVEN DOUGH ( DONT USE EXCESSIVE FORCE AND STRETCH THE DOUGH , SLOWLY COAX THE DOUGH TO THE SHAPE AND SIZE ONE NEEDS , THINK OF THE FRESH DOUGH AS AN ELASTIC BAND , THE MORE ONE STRETCHES IT THE MORE IT WILL CONTRACT WHEN NOT ENOUGH CARE IS GIVEN 
DOUGH MUST BE KEPT COOL AT ALL TIMES 
A BALANCED PIE DOUGH / SWEET DOUGH FORMULA IS A MUST
IF YOU WOULD LIKE OUR PASTRY ( SWEET & SAVOURY ) DOUGH FORMULAS i WOULD BE QUITE HAPPY TO SEND YOU THEM PER MAIL , MAIL ME AT [email protected] ...psstt by the way I am male 
Thankyou


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## chefpeon (Jun 14, 2006)

@Chef Graham, no need to get defensive. Obviously misinterpretation of terminology caused a misunderstanding. Here in the US, when someone is baking a shell with no filling inside, we call it blind baking, whether the shell is baked upside down or right-side up.

So when you said that you bake hundreds of empty shells per week but you never blind bake, you can see how that might be confusing.

The advice you gave regarding the handling of most short crusts is well known and is pastry 101. However, despite all precautions there are some dough formulas that shrink no matter what one does in that regard, so solving the issue via upside down baking or filling the shells with beans is just what it comes to sometimes.

Often a pastry chef is hired to make house recipes with house formulas and they aren't able to change the established recipe to suit their needs better and alternative solutions need to be applied.


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## Chef Graham (Feb 21, 2019)

chefpeon said:


> @Chef Graham, no need to get defensive. Obviously misinterpretation of terminology caused a misunderstanding. Here in the US, when someone is baking a shell with no filling inside, we call it blind baking, whether the shell is baked upside down or right-side up.
> 
> So when you said that you bake hundreds of empty shells per week but you never blind bake, you can see how that might be confusing.
> 
> ...


well as I stated I have never had any problems regarding shrinkage or whatever , as they say the proof is in the pudding , a well made and well handled pastry dough whether sweet or savoury backed up by baking science should not go wrong ever !! and it doesn't ...amen !!!


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## Chef Graham (Feb 21, 2019)

Chef Graham said:


> well as I stated I have never had any problems regarding shrinkage or whatever , as they say the proof is in the pudding , a well made and well handled pastry dough whether sweet or savoury backed up by baking science should not go wrong ever !! and it doesn't ...amen !!!


and I dont do " do ya come from a land down under " upside down pastry dough .. LOL


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## chefpeon (Jun 14, 2006)

Chef Graham said:


> well as I stated I have never had any problems regarding shrinkage or whatever , as they say the proof is in the pudding , a well made and well handled pastry dough whether sweet or savoury backed up by baking science should not go wrong ever !! and it doesn't ...amen !!!


That's really great for you Graham. As one of my teachers used to say, maybe you can share your formulas with the rest of the class.


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