# Tiramisu



## yuesang (May 27, 2006)

Hi everyone

1. Most tiramisu recipes require some type of liquor.
If I do not want liquor, what is the best substitute if I do not want to compromise on the taste ?


2. The recipes I came across make tiramisu in trays.
Is there any difference in the recipe if I use cups ?

Anyone can help me ?

Thanks
yuesang


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## felixe the dog (Jul 16, 2006)

1. Try orange or lemon oil/zest in small quanitities to enhance the flavour

2.No, unless you are using gelatine to stabilise the cream in the trayed tiramisu, if this is the case then you can reduce the gelatin content.


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

Tiramisu' is usually made here, in italy, by soaking ladyfingers in _coffee_, not liqueur, though sometimes pastry shops use liqueur. But coffee is the only actual flavoring that is used in tiramisu' - coffee "picks you up" and tiramisu' means "pull me up". Fill it with liqueur and you have "tiramigiu" - pull me down! Ladyfingers go on the bottom. You could easily do this in small cups, and they often do in pastry shops. 
Then the eggs are beaten with sugar, mixed with the mascarpone, and spread on top. Finally a layer of unsweetened cocoa (if you're lazy) or grated bittersweet chocolate (much better, i think) goes on top. VERY simple, no lemon, no orange, no liqueur. No gelatin, no other ingredients at all. Ladyfingers, coffee (espresso, sugared), eggs, sugar, mascarpone, and chocolate. That;s it. 
No one i know is very worried about salmonella here, so they use raw eggs, but having grown up in the states, where it was a big thing since i was a kid, I make it by beating the eggs and then pouring boiling sugar syrup into them, as you would for buttercream, and then mixing it with the mascarpone. I find it also makes it stay fluffier. 
If you want proportions i can give them. But it's not a very precise recipe no matter who gives it - usually something like x tbsps of sugar to every egg.


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## yuesang (May 27, 2006)

Hi
Thanks for the information. I will use the recipe by Siduri because I think is a simple recipe and could taste more like the original. However, I will also experiment with lemon zest and if my friends like that extra flavor, why not ?.

I will not use raw eggs as over here where I live, is a city, and I am not so sure if the eggs are fresh from the farm everyday.

Have a good day

yuesang:bounce:


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## felixe the dog (Jul 16, 2006)

Yup, a very traditional version of tiramisu.
However, a lot of cuisine in Italy is regional - Tiramisu in rome is different from Turin, so saying no alcohol etc etc is misleading. 
Hey my training says to use "Strega" I have worked with Italians who use galliano (original), bourbon, mille fiori and I would never say they are "wrong". If I said it was wrong not to use galliano and orange then my friend Carlo's mom would slap me down! - real fast.
Personally I would take the above recipe and make a "bombe" paste from the eggs and sugar, pasteurizing the eggs and removing the risk of food poisoning.:smiles:


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

yeah, of course, every cook makes a dish just as they like it, i guess i just don't like the liqueur. I don't know of any regional variations of the dish, but there are personal variations. The best tiramisu i ever ate was from a bar (read coffeebar) which had cups of it in a frige, and it had neither coffee nor sugar, but my god, was it good.
I find that pastry places here throw liqueurs into everything, so everything tastes the same. The main liqueur they use is that horrible pink alchermes or rosolio - i don't know a single person that likes it, but they put it in, even in kids' birthday cakes. Personally i would prefer vanilla to any other flavoring besides coffee or chocolate, much as that would be very unitalian. 
In any case tiramisu' does imply coffee, which is the pick-me-up i think they must have referred to when they named it. 
There is another desert similar in appearance to tiramisu which does have liqueur in it, "zuppa inglese" (English soup, or sop) (I think they were inspired by the trifle) and it uses pastry cream- chocolate and plain (lemon peel not vanilla is the usual flavoring). First a layer of ladyfingers soaked (sopped) in liqueur (the usual alchermes or rosolio, usually) and then a layer of chocolate and a layer of white cream.


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

siduri said:


> The best tiramisu i ever ate was from a bar (read coffeebar) which had cups of it in a frige, and it had neither coffee nor sugar
> oops, sorry, i meant neither coffee nor chocolate


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## felixe the dog (Jul 16, 2006)

Just out of interest, the "horrible pink alchermes or rosolio" you speak about; what exactly is it (I assume a liquor?), do you know what it is made from and its origin? I am interested.


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

Hi Felixe 
I just looked up alchermes, the "al" is for the alcohol, and the chermes part of it (oh, please, tell me it's not true) is from this bug or worm called the cocciniglia or something like that, and is what gives it its color. Found some recipes, which are based on spices like clove, cinnamon, coriander, which i like very much, but despite their strong tastes, the alchermes they use in pastry shops must have very little of them and the main taste is rose water and orange flower water. I guess. I never tasted any spice tastes at all. 
Rosolio i didn;t look up but must be based on rose water. 
Personally, i don't like my deserts to taste like hand cream. And i find the spirits in liqueurs to be distracting to the flavor of a creamy and subtle taste like mascarpone. 
by the way, where are you writing from? or can i ask?


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## felixe the dog (Jul 16, 2006)

A long way from home


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## pzyco (Aug 19, 2006)

If you dont like to use raw eggs, try coddeling them. I use this for making ceaser dressin. Heat eggs over a medium flame under water til 140-145*F immediately remove from heat and let sit for 5 mins. Strain hot water and remove eggs from the hot pot to stop cooking


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## felixe the dog (Jul 16, 2006)

But will they still whip up with the sugar?


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## pzyco (Aug 19, 2006)

your not actually cooking the eggs at all if you do it correct, your just killing any bacteria.. should work


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## felixe the dog (Jul 16, 2006)

Then I would make a "bombe" paste, it does the same, sounds quicker, you are already whipping the eggs and if you need HACCP compliance you can quickly take a core temp sample "on the spot" as you work to ensure food safety etc etc.


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

I've had strawberry tiramisu - the bar/pastry shop near me (Pompi, i think it's called) is apparently famous throughout Rome for its tiramisu, and they make a strawberry one.  It's great, but probably the best taste combination I love is coffee and chocolate, so i'll go for that every time.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Or one could use pasteurized egg yolks, which come in a pint container=0 salmonella 0 bacteria counts.


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## siduri (Aug 13, 2006)

Try beating the eggs to thick foam and then adding boiling sugar syrup slowly, like for italian meringue, then add it to your mascarpone.  It will cook the eggs, and keep them fluffy so the mascarpone is even lighter and has a wonderful texture.


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