# newbie looking for a cookware set



## anoop (Apr 13, 2009)

OK, I don't cook a whole lot, but I do want to start cooking more than I have in the past.

I used to have a cheap T-FAL set, but got rid of it after I found out that the tephlon use for making the non-stick surface can actually make it into the food when used at high temperatures.

So now, I want to get back to basics with something made of tried and true age old materials that would hopefully be safe and healthier than using non-stick pots.

I visited Williams Sonoma and liked what they had, although I did find their stuff very pricey. I'd appreciate any comments on their Lagostina and All-Clad sets and whether you'd recommend one over the other.

The glass lids by Calphalon, which I saw at Crate and Barrel, look pretty nice. Does one need to be careful about those getting cracked, if for example, placing it in cold water while the lid is hot, or are they pretty resistant to that? Would this be a reasonable choice, or would one of the above brands be better?

Any other suggestions would also be appreciated.

I'm sure this forum gets this type of question a lot, so if you have some kind of FAQ that covers this topic, I'd appreciate that pointer as well.

I am a little hesitant to go out and spend a lot of money when I don't really know how to assess the quality of something, hence my question.

Thanks,
Anoop


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Most here aren't fans of sets. You tend to end up with pots you don't use/like. 

All Clad is highly regarded, though there are reports of poor customer support on the warranty side. You can often find All Clad in discount stores like Marshalls, TJ Maxx and so on and pick them up cheaply. I've not found them in my local discounters.

Glass lids are tempered and fairly tough. If you use them in the oven, they can lose their temper over time. But generally, they're tough. 

There have been a number of threads on this topic in the past. I'll try and pull up some links you might find informative.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Phil's pretty well summed it up.

Sets are initially appealing. But far too often they contain pieces that you never use. So the value just isn't there.

Unfortunately, it's often the case that a particular item you want is not available in open stock, and only comes as part of a set. Poor marketing on the maker's part, IMO.

There is nothing wrong with glass lids. They're made of tempered glass, and can withstand a pretty wide shift in temperatures. But I don't know why you'd want to drop a hot one into cold water. That's not really a good idea for any cookware material.

As to All-Clad, I'm one of those who have no use for the company, which has the worst customer service in the industry. You couldn't give me another piece of All-Clad, let alone sell me one of the over-priced things.

I've had good luck with Calphalon. Also Henkels and others at that level. But, by the same token, my Wear-Ever pots have lasted a long time, with no problems. What I'm saying is that you don't _have _to invest the equivalent of a second mortgage in cookware.

Also, don't forget there are many materials in addition to stainless. Check out, for instance, some of the carbon steel pots and pans, which are just as good and usually a lot cheaper.

Cast iron---either coated or not---has uses that cannot be duplicated with other materails, and you might look into at least one iron skillet and "Dutch oven."

And, despite the potential health issues (for most of which the jury is still out), you'll find that most commercial kitchen are loaded with aluminum pots and pans.


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

If you are relatively new to cooking, think carefully before you get into cast iron and carbon steel. There are some maintenance issues you will have to deal with: they must be seasoned and then taken care of properly to avoid rust, and in the case of carbon steel, in order to make them work really well. I think it's probably worth it if you have no particular habits as yet and are willing to start developing some good ones, but if you're not willing or able to put extra time and effort into your equipment you're probably better off with rust-free materials.
I heard an interesting story on NPR about this a year ago. Apparently the jury isn't still out, if we're talking about scientists and doctors. The original studies that suggested aluminum pots and pans might be dangerous, because the aluminum would go into your brain, turn out to have been misinterpreted. There have been subsequent studies focused on the question directly, and there is no evidence that aluminum pans can hurt you. The NPR story was so interesting because this medical scientist was discussing how difficult it is to convince anyone: everyone seems to have heard that aluminum pans are deadly, and nothing will convince them otherwise. Practically speaking, of course, you may have some trouble finding such pans outside a restaurant supply house, because there isn't much demand -- everyone "knows" they're deadly, right?


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## brreynolds (Apr 26, 2001)

If you'd like a completely amateur point of view, I agree with Phil & KYH on all of their points. If you want to look around for high-end cookware at something like a discount, in addition to the suggestions they made, you might want to take a look at www. cookwarenmore.com. That advertises itself as an All-Clad outlet, selling seconds. I've bought some stuff from them, and I couldn't figure out why they were "seconds." The prices are lower than the regular All-Clad prices, which means they're only high, not extortionate. (And every once in a while they run sales.) They also carry other brands. 

If you plan to go the All-Clad route, or to similar brands, I'd recommend stainless steel. Unlike the clad stuff, it happily goes in a dishwasher. About 10 years ago, I went out and splurged on bunch of high-end cookware, and now have to wash more dishes by hand than I'd ever have thought about before the "upgrade."

Every cook (even us amateurs) has favorite pans, and they're not even all of the same material. So buying one at a time is usually best designed to give you what you would want over time. Soups, stocks, and other stuff you do in a big pan don't require a heavy-duty pan, so you can go with lighter, less costly stuff there. Like KYH (I've been away for a while; it's Kyle, isn't it? I couldn't confirm from an earlier post) I think you'd want at least one cast iron skillet and dutch oven, and you'll need to look around a bit to decide what size. I do a lot of cooking for 1, and then a lot of entertaining, so I have two groups of sizes.

On putting hot glass into cold water, don't. Any material will shatter if it is subjected to a sufficiently extreme temperature change. Back in the days when Thermos bottles were more common than today, mothers always warned their offspring to warm the bottle with hot water before putting coffee, tea, etc. in them. I once saw a nice pre-Civil War glass bowl turned into two nice pre-Civil War half bowls when hot gravy was poured into it without it having been warmed first. "Tempered" glass is just less likely to shatter, not impossible to shatter. In fact, a few weeks ago, I let a cast iron griddle get hotter than I was aware, and it cracked when I poured oil onto it. (That was the damnedest thing I ever saw; I had thought cast iron was invulnerable.)


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

No, I am not Kyle.


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## bubba (Dec 10, 2008)

I bought a set of Cuisinart Multiclad Pro and I love those. I use every pan in the set, no useless ones. I also have an enameled cast iron dutch oven and a couple cast iron skillets. The Cuisinart pans are fully clad, not just on the bottom and the heat very evenly.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

>There have been subsequent studies focused on the question directly, and there is no evidence that aluminum pans can hurt you. <

I won't go into the journalistic accuracy of NPR, except to say that they're among the ones who first misinterpreted the early reports. Now they complain that nobody listens when they try one of their non-retraction retractions.

Anyway, the original study (which may have been filled with artifact) did not conclude that aluminum caused anything. What it purportedly found was a higher incidence of aluminum in parts of the brain associated with alzheimers. On the assumption that the study was correct, popular science reporters concluded that aluminum caused alzheimers.

Meanwhile, real scientists were trying to establish what, if any, causal relationship existed. Again, assuming the original study was correct, the question was: Did aluminum build up cause (or contribute to the onset of) alzheimers? Or did alzheirmers somehow cause the build-up of aluminum? And, either way, was there a genetic relationship to aluminum build-up.

In the course of doing those studies it turns out nobody could replicate the original findings, and is now generally believed that one of the medical techs somehow messed up.

But the fact is, aluminum has been looked at as a possible link in other illnesses. Which is why I say the jury is still out.

And, of course, there are some things---particularly acid foods---that you don't want to cook in aluminum anyway. Even white sauces should not be made in aluminum, because they turn gray if you do so.

>Practically speaking, of course, you may have some trouble finding such pans outside a restaurant supply house, because there isn't much demand -- everyone "knows" they're deadly, right? <

I don't think that's true at all, Chris. The high-end shops tend to not stock straight aluminum because 1. it's cheap, and the margins on it are low, and 2. it doesn't fit their image. However, most of the anodized cookware stocked by them is aluminum---and overpriced, IMO.

In big box and general department stores, aluminum cookware is still all over the place. It doesn't predominate like it used to (only because they have low-end SS lines they can sell at a bigger mark-up), but it's still fairly common.

The hard one to find outside of restaurant supply houses is carbon steel. I haven't seen any of that in retail establishments in a mort of years. But I wonder if, with the rediscovery of cast iron, if carbon might not be poised for a come-back as well.


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

As far as recalling the story correctly, you've got it right and I misremembered. Thanks for jogging my obviously aluminized brain! :crazy:

As to NPR, though, I will say that this criticism in this particular instance isn't warranted. They weren't complaining about anything: it was the medical researcher being interviewed who was annoyed that nobody wanted to believe aluminum pans might not be dangerous. Anyway...
Fair enough. The availability of cheap aluminum may be something of a regional thing: it's just not around much where I shop in the U.S. except in the Asian markets.

On anodized aluminum, which I agree is overpriced, if you read the Calphalon promotional literature thoroughly and with a jaundiced eye, you may notice some hints that if you ask me are intended to suggest that their pans, because they are anodized, will not hurt you, unlike the cheap ones. Personally, my problem with Calphalon, apart from the fact that it costs too much, is that it scratches remarkably easily and has to be hand-washed.

You're dead right about carbon steel. I doubt it'll come back, though: cast iron requires some maintenance but is pretty forgiving, whereas carbon steel demands good habits. Besides, I know lots of people who think a patina is basically disgusting and dirty.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

>Personally, my problem with Calphalon, apart from the fact that it costs too much, is that it scratches remarkably easily and has to be hand-washed.<

Not just Calphalon, Chris. In my experience, all the modern anodized cookware is crap. If you think Calphalon is bad, check out some of the Oneida, which seems to scratch if you just look at it crosseyed. 

And yet, the celebrity chefs all seem to use metal utensils in anodized. Maybe they replace the pan after one use each time???


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

I didn't mean to single out Calphalon as opposed to other anodized aluminum. My mother is a fan of Calphalon, so I end up with a certain number of their pans and no other anodized aluminum. I have to say, if you get them free as presents, they're not bad. 
Gee, it's almost like they're paid to use the things or something! This shakes my deep faith in TV celebrities.

But, wait, does that mean that Shun and Kyocera knives aren't the best in the history of the world?


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

>Gee, it's almost like they're paid to use the things or something!<

Ya think? :look:


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Hi there,


I had a couple of Calphalon pans that had glass lids. They were fine for a while, but after a couple of years the area that seals I started to notice an accumulation of water trapped in the area. I was unable to get the water out of this area which led me to believe the moisture may have been entering during the cooking process when the metal/glass lid was heated. 

No matter what the reason...the water wasn't coming out. 

dan


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## anoop (Apr 13, 2009)

I ended up buying a Lagostina saucepan yesterday. The instruction book suggested that I wash it with warm water before it's first use, and also coat it with a thin layer of oil. Anyway, after hand washing and drying it, it had a fairly strong odor. I'm not sure what it was...probably new metal? I washed it several times. The odor seems to be getting less strong.

Is this normal with stainless steel pots?

Anoop


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

An odor isn't normal. But new pans often have a manufacturing residue on them that you should wash away before using. I


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Just looking over the posts...

Like most here, I am NOT a big fan of anything alumimum cookware, hate it, actually. Well...really, I guess I mean, I detest it, abhor it, whatever.

Never really understood the thingee with anodized aluminum. It's verry expensive, you can buy decent restaurant quality s/s cookware for the same price or cheaper. Aside form the price, the thing is, aluminum warps bad, real bad, George Thorogood bad-to-the-bone bad. And the anodized schtuff has regular bottoms--no cast alumimum bases stuck on, no "sandwich" bottoms either, so it should, theoretically, warp the 2nd or 3rd time you use it.


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## anoop (Apr 13, 2009)

I washed it several times before using. I first started getting the smell during the first wash. It's like a sweet, cake-like smell, but very uncharacteristic of metal. I took it back to the store today and one of the clerks said she could see what I was talking about. They swapped the pot for a floor sample (because they didn't have any others in stock).

The smell was still there even after cooking 2 times with it. Weird stuff.

Anoop


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

I'm confused. Does it say why you have to coat stainless steel with oil? That sounds like the sort of thing you do with carbon, not stainless.

There are ways and means of getting rid of absolutely ANY residue, trace, whatever, but at this point I'd be wary. Read your warranty very carefully before going any further. If there is a problem here, you don't want to find that they will only take back a pan that is basically new or something of that sort.


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## dxt178 (May 12, 2008)

The odor thing is a bit strange for a SS pot... I'm not sure what that is all about.

My 2 pence, late, addition:

Asian markets and restaurant supply stores are your friend. Never will I buy cookware anywhere else. From my standard issue Volrath/ABC/Lincoln gear to my two flat-bottomed woks (one non-stick, one regular) I really have no need for consumer gear. 

I basically keep a couple non-sticks in my needed sizes (one small, one medium, one large, and one medium sauce pan) And the rest are SS or alu depending on use. Even my larger non-stick Lincoln's were only $18 on sale. The non-stick wok from a local Asian market has become invaluable and has over 12 years of use and no issues or wearing of the coating which IMO is amazing... it seemed like a bad idea all around (high heat and non-stick, rough use, etc.) but it was a gift and I use it for tons of things to this day at home.

All-Clad can be nice, but I can also buy 3-4 of my current kit for one of them so the warranty/quality becomes a non-issue to me. Same with knives, you can get great Forschner/Victorinox chef/paring knives that will easily handle any home kitchen at a fraction of the cost.


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## anoop (Apr 13, 2009)

Yes. I happened to read the instructions before using it (something very rare), and was surprised since I had asked specifically about this at the store and was told nothing needed to be done.

I don't think it's a problem of a residue because there was no noticeable smell until I washed it the first time. In any case, if the odor is not something normal, I'd rather not do anything out of the ordinary to get rid of it. Getting a different pot seems safer at this point.

Anoop


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## anoop (Apr 13, 2009)

How do I find a restaurant supply store in my area?

Thanks,
Anoop


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

I don't know where you are -- try the yellow pages. If you don't find anything, or not much, try one of the big online places like BigTray. They have everything.


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## dxt178 (May 12, 2008)

Easiest way is to google "restaurant supply store <city name>" there are also quite a few mail order/online restaurant supply stores open to the public for smaller orders with very cheap shipping (and no tax). Almost every city has one, if you don't have any luck let me know your city and I'll find the closest one to you. Good luck!


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## chiffonade (Nov 29, 2001)

If you're just starting out, I suggest you visit either Costco or Sam's club and grab the Wolfgang Puck set. I had this set in my restaurant, beat the crap out of it and I still have it today.

Yes, there's All Clad, etc. but the WP set meets all my criteria.

1. Stainless Steel.
2. NO nonstick.
3. Pourable lip - I don't have All Clad because I don't like the way everything dribbles down the side of the pan anytime you pour something out of it. Pet peeve but it annoys me enough to resist purchasing the brand.
4. Riveted handles (NO spot welds) and all-metal handles (no plastic).
5. Sandwich construction (bottom of the pan has copper interior with stainless steel around it).
6. Very few (if any) bulls**t pieces. I generally steer clear of sets but there wasn't a piece I wouldn't use.

I have many pieces of cookware I've collected over my lifetime . I have Le Creuset, French crepe pans, stockpots, cast iron frying pans, you name it - but the Wolfgang Puck set remains my #1 recommendation of a "set" of cookware; especially for someone just starting out.

Check this out if you can - it's an album I have on Facebook called "Gear." You don't have to be a member to view it.


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

Chiff, now I have equipment envy. I want your Hobart!!


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## chiffonade (Nov 29, 2001)

I'm having a time of it trying to figure out where it can live! I'm thinking a low profile wooden box as a "stand" so the machine doesn't have to sit directly on the floor. With a small-ish kitchen, it's a challenge.

The Hobart is great for mixing really big batches of brownies and cookies.


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## hippysandy (Jul 22, 2009)

You should also include porcelain cookware...It's efficient to have one in your kitchen.


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## shamus (Jul 27, 2009)

funny story, when i first learned about cooking, i thought tempered glass wouldnt break easily. i was going to braise a roast, so i decided to put a pyrex baking dish of some sort on the stovetop with the heat on. i figured i would just sear the roast on there then take the whole thing and put it in the oven. i didnt even get to the point of pouring the liquid for the braise in before i exploded the entire thing. when i say exploded, i mean exploded. there were peices of glass everywhere, behind the oven, under it, in the sink, in my shoes, all over. needless to say I threw the roast away. 

My suggestion, get atleast a cast iron skillet. its hard to get a lot of materials up to the temperature cast iron can get to without hurting them, especially those with non-stick surfaces. working in kitchens ive seen people burn teflon right off of a pan, making it a toxic sticky surface. just make sure if you get cast iron to learn how to take care of it. 

I had a girlfriend once take a metal spatula to a brand new teflon pan of mine. I immediately went out and bought cast iron, and its never happened since.


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## singer4660 (May 21, 2009)

Though not a big fan of celebrity anything, I own a set of stainless Emerilware pans and I love them. The 10 piece set was under $200 and they're made by All-Clad so they heat evenly, clean well, and look as good now as when I got them 2 years ago. It is true however, that a set may not be the way to go. You really do end up liking 1 or 2pans and the others end up sitting in your cupboard. Still, if the price is right, it sometimes makes sense. 

I would absolutely own one good non-stick pan. You can't cook eggs, crepes or anything really sticky in a stainless steel pan easily or consistently (at least I can't) so an 8" or 10" non-stick skillet is a requirement in my mind. Good luck!


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Emerilware is All-Clad's Chinese-made stuff, which is why it is more cheaply made and sold.

All-Clad does not stand behind its warranty, however, so if you have problems with any of it (under either brand name) you better hope the retailer will take it back, because All-Clad sure won't.


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## willie24 (Aug 13, 2008)

I have to agree with singer4660 completely. I've had my Emerilware set for about six years, use all the pieces,never had a single problem and they look like new. I will say that over 40 years plus of cooking I have also accumulated some cast iron, non stick, and Le Creuset, all of which have their uses, but the set I bought for $199.00 was a great value and get the majority of use in my kitchen.

Frugally yours,

Willie


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Give me the old wearever aluminum with the heavy rivited handles as sold in rest. supplies stores.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

>I would absolutely own one good non-stick pan. You can't cook eggs,.....<

Boy am I tired of hearing this. 

Your grandmother never heard of teflon. But she had no problem frying eggs. Among other reasons she had skillets made of other materials, such as carbon steel, and cast iron, and aluminum (and even glass). 

Ever been to a Waffle House restaurant? Row after row of skillets used to fry eggs, and nary a non-stick version in the bunch. Imagine that; a whole chain of restaurants frying thousands of eggs each morning without non-stick skillets. 

And, despite the widespread myth, you can cook eggs in stainless if you learn how to use the material. I do it all the time, without them sticking or breaking.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

>........never had a single problem <

Willie, I'm happy that your Emerilware worked out for you. Truly I am.

But the test of a company is not when its products do what they're supposed to. Basic performace is a reasonable expectation. The real test of a company is what happens when the product does not do what it's supposed to, or otherwise fails.

In the case of All-Clad, when a product doesn't perform, failure extends to the executive suite, where neither the so-called customer service people nor the top executives, give much of a d_mn.

Once upon a time All-Clad was, effectively, the only source of clad cookware. As a result, they developed an arrogance that continues despite the fact they have _at least _a half dozen competitors who make equal or higher quality goods at lower prices. And who stand behind their products.

If All-Clad ever decides to honor its much-touted warranty I might consider using its products. But until they can demonstrate a basic level of customer care, I'll cast my dollar votes with companies that do.


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## singer4660 (May 21, 2009)

My grandmother never heard of teflon and she also used 3 tablespoons of butter to fry an egg. Personally, I don't need the calories. 

While it is true that professionals and experienced home cooks can be completely competent cooking eggs and anything else in virtually any pan, the average home cook, and certainly the "newbie" that started this string, tend not to be so lucky. If we want others to love cooking as much as we do, then we have to consider ease of use as a critical component in the early stages. I'm just suggesting that having the right tools can make all the difference even if the professionals consider this cheating.


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

I agree and don't agree -- with you and with KYHeirloomer.

On the one hand, yes, you can use very little fat these days, and that's something a good deal more desired today than it was. On the other hand, grandma used a well-seasoned cast-iron or carbon-steel skillet, which was much more non-stick than modern non-stick artificial surfaces, regardless of the fat used.

So I think the ideal surface is certainly well-seasoned steel or iron, and if you want to make a good omelet, steel is going to be your friend: iron is just too dang heavy. But this ideal surface isn't available to every home cook in the way it once was. To get and maintain this surface, you must use this skillet constantly, cooking eggs and bacon and steaks and whatever. If you only cook eggs once in a while -- maybe every couple of weekends, and the rest of the time you have cereal and toast -- that surface isn't going to function. Back in the day, my grandmother expected to dish up eggs or flapjacks almost every day, and her pans supported this. If you try to dig out your carbon steel every two weeks and think that patina is going to work like a charm, you've got another think coming.

To my mind, the point about nonstick is to think of it as a semi-passable imitation of a patina'ed carbon pan. It's not nearly as good, but you don't have to work at it, have good habits, or cook the right things constantly. If you run a restaurant that cooks eggs all the time, don't be stupid: get carbon. If you cook eggs every 2-3 weeks maybe, get nonstick.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

It's interesting to look back and remember that teflon pans were first brought to market for easy cleanup and minimal care as the actual benefit of non-stick. 

We've drifted into liking non-stick for low fat applications and the convenience of howit handles certain tricky foods. 

But that wasn't what was initially perceived as beneficial about non-stick.

Phil


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

>....having the right tools can make all the difference even if the professionals consider this cheating.<

I don't think anyone considers the use of non-stick cookware as cheating, Singer. It's more a question of efficiency. Non-stick, for various reasons, just doesn't fit in a busy restaurant kitchen.

On the other hand, in a small inn or B&B, the cookware often parallels what you'd have at home, and non-stick is often favored for certain applications. 

There are also some potential health issues that have been raised about non-stick. 

Personally, I don't consider non-stick to be either efficient nor safe, so don't have any in the house.

All that aside, however, the basic question is whether or not you can cook eggs in a stainless or other skillet. And the answer to that one is, "of course!" If you opt for non-stick, that's your choice, and none can argue with it. But the idea that you have to have a non-stick pan for cooking eggs is nonesense.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

>So I think the ideal surface is certainly well-seasoned steel or iron, and if you want to make a good omelet, steel is going to be your friend: iron is just too dang heavy.<

No argument at all, Chris. 

The one drawback to carbon (other than the general lack of availability) is that the typical homeowner wants bright, shiny pots and pans. Those of us, like thee and me, who love carbon talk about the "patina" that develops. But, let's be honest, it's ugly as homemade sin, and the pans actually look dirty. Most housewives, particular of an older generation, wouldn't have such things in their homes. 

In theory only efficiency should matter. But in practical terms, things like the look of carbon steel pans has to be taken into consideration when making recomendations. 

Speaking of recomendations, anyone know where I can get a carbon steel skillet running 14 inches or larger?


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## bubba (Dec 10, 2008)

I have no trouble frying eggs in stainless pans. What I have trouble with is scrambled eggs sticking. Of course, a short soak in hot water gets it loose.


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## singer4660 (May 21, 2009)

You know, I'm generally not one to complain, but I'm getting pretty frustrated with this forum. While I understand that the mission of ChefTalk is to provide a link to professional chefs, it seems that just about every suggestion I make is criticized directly or indirectly as not appropriate for a restaurant environment. I would understand this if I was posting in one of the professional forums or even one for students, but I'm not. I'm very careful to respond only to other home cooks who are looking for general opinions on a topic with which I have experience. 

Take this thread for example. The original poster is very clear about being an at home cook who's looking to improve his skills. He asked about cookware that would be appropriate for an at home cook. I suggested a reasonably priced set that I own and, God forbid, a non-stick skillet to ease the way into successfully making the occassional egg. Keep in mind that I have 30 years of experience in my home kitchen and am by anyone's standards a darn fine cook. What followed was nothing short of outright hostility regarding the relative need for, quality of, and safety of my suggestions! What's up with that?


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## profxfiles (Jul 31, 2009)

Try the knifemerchant.com--David Holly is great and he has some monster carbon steel pans, I think up to 20" or so.


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## bubba (Dec 10, 2008)

Singer. I'm not criticizing, just saying frying eggs is no problem with SS pans. The key is keep the heat down. Scrambled eggs and crepes are a different story. I use nonstick for those. I'm not a pro by any means, just a relatively inexperienced home cook.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

As moderator of this forum I'll take this to heart. However, the most vocal participants in this thread are all homecooks, no pros, me included. 

On the point of restaurant environments, they often use plain aluminum for their saute pans because they cook evenly, are cheap and do the job well. I don't particularly care for plain aluminum myself though all the good and bad things of plain aluminum are also true of carbon steel and cast iron. I do have cast iron and carbon steel pans. So have some confidence in what you like and do. You're right for your situation. Which is exactly what restaurants are doing too. 

Many here extol the virtues of Japanese knives. I think they're way overpriced for what you get. And it's not that I won't pay that much for a hard quality steel knife because I have, many times. And I can sharpen them just fine. I just don't see the reward for the cost in that item that they do. So I prefer the Forschner Fibrox knives as they are the sweet spot in performance for cost for me. And they're right, the Forschner doesn't hold it's edge as well, but I can restore it in under a minute and keep on going. Works great for me but I'll never convince them of my position.

I'm glad you're happy with it. In large general terms, your experience with a set is in the minority which doesn't invalidate your experience. Most of us have bought sets in the past and found them lacking. This is the more common experience with sets among enthusiast cooks and so we base our recommendations on what is more commonly seen as better. You'll note in my initial reply to the OP, I didn't speak in absolutes

It isn't universally so and feel free to express your pleasure in your set. 

I didn't see the hostility directed towards you. Please point out such posts to me in the future. You can report posts with the shield icon in the upper right corner of each post and I'll look at what's going on.

It's hard to read the emotional state of someone on the internet. Plain text doesn't carry the emotional cues of the conversation. While this has turned into a bit of a debate I don't see the discussion as attacking you personally but I'm happy to be corrected if there was a personal attack. I've only skimmed much of it.

There certainly has been pointed discussion at the position you espouse but I don't think they were directed personally. That can be tough to separate for many people particularly with only text as the interaction.

I don't agree with KYHeirloomer on abandoning teflon. I've seen the reports on the dangers of teflon and I use it within my understanding of those dangers. KYH has a different tolerance threshold for that. I just know that KYH and I agree to differ on this topic and we get along about it. 

Please stay with us. I think you'll find the occasional upset worth the benefits.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

>What followed was nothing short of outright hostility regarding the relative need for, quality of, and safety of my suggestions! What's up with that? <

Singer, I'm sorry if you took any of my comments that way. They certainly were not offered with any hostile intent. I've just reread each of them, in fact, and I don't understand where you saw hostility---either in general tone or directed at you personally. 

What we had was a difference of opinion. You said "you can't do something", and I said "yes you can." 

I have continually stressed that personal choices are just that. If you opt for a particular kind of cookware, that's your choice. If I opt for a different kind, that's my choice.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

>Try the knifemerchant.com--David Holly is great and he has some monster carbon steel pans, I think up to 20" or so. <

Thanks for the tip, profxfiles. I'll check them out.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

profixfiles, do you have an exact URL for Dave Holly's company? I can't find it under any configuration of the knife merchant.

Thanks.


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## profxfiles (Jul 31, 2009)

I am apparently too much of a n00b to be allowed to post the actual URL, but it is 

www knifemerchant com

just add the appropriate periods


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

It takes 5 posts to be able to include a URL. This is all about limiting spam accounts. We get lots of them even with this limitation.

Phil


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

That did it profxfiles. Looks like they have exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks.


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## profxfiles (Jul 31, 2009)

You are certainly welcome--David turned me on to the Messermeister knife company. I have been thrilled with the service I have received from David, including his price-matching guarantee.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

I don't know about his price-matching guarantee. But from what I saw on the steel cookware pages, it's probably not needed. His prices are more than reasonable, and certainly lower than comparable other sellers. 

I ordered the Lyons-style heavy duty skillet, 14 1/8 inch diameter last night, and now await it with bated breath.


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## david_the_greek (Aug 8, 2009)

Same situation as the OP, but just wondering if anyone with a Costco membership has tried their 16pc 5ply set? I ended up purchasing it but may take it back. I really like cuisinarts multiclad line up, but ended up succumbing to impulse while walking through costco. Luckily their return policy is stellar if I change my mind, but has anyone dealt with this product that can attest to its longevity? It's "5 ply", but I think that just means the base.... not that it's really that big of an issue for me.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

I went and looked at them today. They look like they'd cook fine. Good heavy base all the way to the cooking edge. Not sure what I think about the flared saucepans and pot.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

"but just wondering if anyone with a Costco membership has tried their 16pc 5ply set"

I bought one of those sets as a wedding gift earlier this year. The smaller pots have a pretty extreme flare but the bottoms are heavy. It's hard to complain at the price point. They were the best value I could find at that time in that price range but they were not my favorite over all.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Profxfiles: Just a note to thank you again for the lead to knifemerchant.com. 

I'd ordered the 14" skillet, which arrived a few days ago. It already is developing a nice patina (what's the sense in buying new toys if you don't play with them, right). 

Frankly, the handle isn't quite as comfortable as my de Buyer skillets. But given the difference in pricepoints I can live with that. 

If anyone is looking to assemble carbon steel cookware, I heartily recommend this company.


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## missyjean (Nov 5, 2009)

I have 1 Emeril saucier that was offered at a 'try me' price. It is only a 1-quart size but it is my favorite pan and I use it everyday. It cooke so evenly.

My other cookware is Farberware All Clad. I bought it in 1970 and it looks as new as the Emeril pan I got last year. Newer versions of the Faberware are no where near my original set in quality. We picked up a newer Farberware set a few years ago and I gave away most of the pieces-they were horrible.


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