# Kitchen Equipment Recommendations



## bella

Hello Everyone,

After ten years, we are finally redoing our very old styled, galley-type kitchen. So, now I am looking at new kitchen equipment (cooktop, ovens, refrigerator, dishwasher--the whole lot). I would like to hear your recommendations on the brands you like the best. I have been looking into Viking, Bosch, Thermador, etc. I really want a great looking kitchen with great appliances. Which should I choose?

Bella


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## kimmie

It all depends on your budget. Do you have a price range in mind or is it unlimited?


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## suzanne

Also: what kind of cooking do you do the most? If you want to grill all year, but can't do it outside in winter, consider getting a unit that includes a grill. Can you vent your hood to the outdoors? What about pasta cookers? How many people do you cook for at one time? How much do you bake, and are you comfortable with convection or not?

Before you go out to buy for looks, look at _what you expect to do_, and narrow your equipment desires based on that.


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## bella

Kimmie and Suzanne,

Thank you for mentioning your ideas. We do a lot of cooking--mostly Italian in my kitchen. I definetly want a six-burner gas cooktop. Four burners are just not enough. I also would like a double oven, possibly one a convection oven. The frig will be a double wide (I hope). 

I don't want a professional stove, as I have read that they are not insulated well enough for home use. I have been reading in all of the remodeling magazines,company literature, and Consumer Reports, so I do know what is out there.

Price is not much of an issue. I will not buy something just because it is pricey. It has to come with good recommendations and appeal. We have been saving a long time, and I really want to get fine quality equipment

Does this give you an idea?

Thanks, Bella


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## campchef

I'm just a huge Viking fan, good stuff and it lasts forever.


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## kimmie

I like Viking too.

You could also take a tour at Monogram

A friend of mine just remodeled her kitchen and went with Miele. For a tour, click here

Also, a tour at Le Gourmet Kitchen may be enlightening.

Hope it helps


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## 84rhonda

Oh, I'd love to be in your shoes. I love the whole Viking line looks wise, and i guess quality wise you can't beat em'. But I've also heard great things about Thermador and they seem to be not as expensive as Viking.

Can't wait till I leave this life of bachelorhoodness and build my dream kitchen with my wife  :bounce:

http://www.siematic.com/home.shtm

There's some ideas in here if you want some layouts idea. I love the contemporary look personally. :bounce:


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## bella

Thank you everyone for your ideas. My husband really likes the Viking line. Perhaps you can tell me if there are any dealerships close to or in Cleveland or Pittsburgh. These two major cities are very close to me. According to Viking, they have dealerships only in Philly and Michigan. There must be someone closer!

Thanks once again


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## ny home cook

This message is actually from my s.o. who does this stuff for a livin'. Hope it helps and it's not too late...

"I am in the distribution business of appliances and have a lot of exposure to all the appliances out there. 
I will start by saying this, there is a lot of misconception out there in the "pro appliance market" 
I will try to best break down what I do know of the individual product. Really the best thing to do is REALLY look at the product in a over-detailed way.

VIKING- Probably the best advertisers out there, the range is IMHO mediocre. The burners are simple stamped stainless steel that does a less than average flame distribution. This is VERY important when you have that flame cranking out. You're really only effectively hitting the edge of the pans. ALOT of Viking is also sourced from other manufacturers. Up until about a year ago the refrigerator was made by Amana which was literally 1/2 the price. This is until Viking bought them. The dishwasher is also sourced althought I don't know by whom and the same goes for a lot of their accessory items such as the wine unit, and icemaker which is manufactured by MARVEL ( a very high quality but underated company). But you are paying about 33% more for viking. What this basically means is YOU ARE PAYING FOR A NAME !!

GARLAND- Garland residential cooking appliances are perhaps the BEST cook tops on the market the truth is in the burners. They have a solid cast iron "star" burner that has a range up to 18,000 btu's and also a simmer that goes very low. It's these star burners that give them the BEST heat and flame usage and distribution. Essentially this is what alot of pros use but this is a scaled down version for home (perfectly insulated). Garland only makes cooking probucts such as cooktops, ranges, and hoods- no wall ovens or other appliances. Garland's ovens only come in gas and have open burners. 

WOLF/SUBZERO- Wolf is Subzeros new baby. Subzero bought Wolf out about 1.5 years ago and is marketing them to death. Wolf has always made a good quality range product. Very underated until subzero started giving them a lot of exposure. They have a semi-sealed burner constuction which makes clean up fairly easy and 2 stage burners so you get good heat distribution. Wolf is also releasing a whole new line up of products. Subzero is still the only refrigerator manufacturer using the 2 compressors. Great quality units that don't have the laundry list of service and comressor issues that they had with some of the earlier "500" and previous series units. 

THERMADOR- Thermador is still the only pro range manufactuer that uses 100% sealed burners. They also have a "star" shaped burner that is only available on the Dual fuel ranges (gas cooktop w/ electric oven) and cooktops. The all gas oven uses a round sealed burner that has poor flame distribution like the Viking. Thermador also sources their dishwasher from Bosch (Bosch/Siemans also owns Thermador) but overall decent product throughout the line. You will pay "popular brand" pricing on this merchandise. 

G.E. Monogram- This is a VERY sourced out line of product, the only thing that GE makes in this line is the refrigerator, the range is a DCS, the wall oven is Bosch, the dishwasher is a Regency, the wine and beverage units are from Marvel. You are basically paying for a lable that says GE Monogram that matches the other appliances in your kitchen. 

DCS- Here is another manufactuer of true pro cooking product that has a line up for residential. DCS is an underrated product as they dont have the advertising budget of some of the other brands. But overall a solid range with good flame distribution. 


There are other brands out there such as Kitchen Aid, Dacor, Five Star, Miele, etc. 

All the manufacturers also have good web sites as well. 
If you need more information I will be more than happy to respond. 

p.s. NOT a fan of consumer reports magazine! At least for appliances they shoot themselves in the foot many times. "


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## bella

NY Home Cook

Thank you so much for the great information. It is great to hear from someone who really knows the products and their pros and cons. I may have some rethinking to do.

Now all I have to do is find dealers within my area and check everything for myself.

Thanks so much again. You have been a tremendous help to me.

Bella


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## chiffonade

In addition to brands, etc., you need to consider your vertical space as well. Use as much as you can to keep floor space clear and counter space workable. It must be exciting to be doing your kitchen over! When we move, we're reserving a chunk of change to re-do the kitchen in whatever house we buy. We know it won't meet our standards...without the commensurate $1.5 million price tag.


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## kimmie

Bella,

You might be interested in a cookbook separated into two main parts: cooking and home design.

I came across a book today called *Living and Eating* by John Pawlson (architect) and Annie Bell, trained as a chef before becoming a food writer at Vogue.

It's a neat concept: the recipes seems pretty interesting and the authors demonstrate perfectly their vision of uncluttered luxury _in the kitchen_!

Click here for more information.


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## jill reichow

I had looked into Viking and heard so many horror stories about the new ones that we shied away from them. viking is no longer totally made by Viking, but parts from many makers all cobbled together. I ended up getting a Dacor 6 burner gas cooktop with a electric convection, regular and convection/bake feature with an infra gas broiler. Have not regreted the decision at all. YOu will need to remember that you need a commerical hood for this type of stove and a 24" stainless backsplash unless you plan on fireproofing your walls. I have had no problems with it except that I have to wipe up spills that show on the black top. Clean-up is quick, has a self clean oven and it's HOT. 15,00 BTU's per burner. What a delight! I chose not to get the griddle/grill function on a stove because I never used the one I had at a previous house. I prefer the 6 burners. Thye oven will hold 3 full sheet pans at a time, but I find that the baking is slightly compromised with that size. I have however, baked three pans of cookies/bars at once and been well pleased with the results. It has taken some getting used to the full convection feature, but we are making progress.


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## bella

Thank you everyone for your information. I have been checking the websites of the various appliance brands and getting as much info and I can. I truly appreciate your ideas. They are invaluable. 

I think we are going to shy away from the Viking line of cooktops and ovens. 

I live near Pittsburgh, PA and Cleveland OH. Do any of you know dealerships which sell the Dacor, Thermador and other brands of appliances? Also, if we do have to go out of town for a purchase, who do I get if the appliance needs servicing? Does someone have to come from the place of purchase to fix my oven?

Thanks for keeping this thread going. I am digesting everthing you are telling me.


Bella


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## jill reichow

Bella, if you to any of the major web sites for the brands, they usually have a place to look for distributors or where you can enter an address and up pops the closest dealer. I have had my Dacor for almost a year now and have had no need for any type of service. The manual even explains how to calibrate the oven by yourself...which I needed to do. i would check with any large kitchen remodeling place. They may know of dealers in the area.
Good luck and keep us posted. We have Home Depots in this area and they have an upscale design store that sells most of the major brands. We found that we could do as well shopping at a local store who would match the price. We prefer to give back to the local businesses when we can.


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## jbuder

bella-
i am also looking to redo my kitchen and i live in the cleveland area. if i come upon great resources i will let you know and would appreciate the same. you are a few steps ahead of me, though. i am just beginning to ponder what's out there. all these responses have been great for me too!


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## shawtycat

Hey NY Home Cook! Do you have a business card? Im also going to remodel my downstairs kitchen MYSELF! I mean design and purchasing wise not the actual construction. And was also thinking Viking or Thermador. You seem to be a pro in this area and since you are in the distribution field maybe I can buy the product from you or someone you recommend.


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## peachcreek

I did a personal chef job a few weeks ago for a couple whose kitchen had just been re-done. They installed a Thermador 5 burner gas cooktop that really was a joy to cook on. The heat was fast and even. I needed all 5 burners at one time and the 5th burner was really convienent. Cleanup was easy and the surfaces were easily washable. They also installed a double Bosch oven. The top oven was convection. I used it for a number of things and thought it did a good job and seemed well made. 
I don't know if I would run out and buy the oven, but that cooktop........


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## matthew357

The one thing I always want in a home kitchen is a rice cooker...just cause they are so dern easy.

Matt


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## bella

Hello Everyone,

I just wanted to let you know that I found a local distributor for Dacor, Viking , Subzero, Miele, and Gaggenau (sp?). My husband and I just happened to be looking in the window of a local kitchen design store and the owner came out and invited us in even though the store was closed. He spent about an hour with us showing us all the different brands and giving us his opinion of them. 

I fell inlove with the Dacor six burner cooktop, too Jill. It was beautiful and had so many options with it. The Dacor ovens were great too. Very roomy and even heating throughout. 

There was a Viking range there too. Once I really looked at it I knew that Viking would be out of the race for me. In a professional kitchen it would be great--I'd like to get one for my restaurant. But for a home kitchen it was too massive and very difficult to clean for someone who hates cleaning!

The Miele dishwasher was really neat. It can fit 14 european placesettings and wine glasses. It can also do fine silver and never harm it.

The owner was super. He cooks for the public every saturday and told us to come back next week. I think he said he would be doing rack of lamb so that people could see how the Dacor ovens and cooktops work.

I really think my mind has been made up. I want to thank all of you who contributed to my education. Without it I would not have known what this man was talking about.

Oh, I also learned that Garland does not make ovens and cooktops for home use any more.

Good luck to all

Bella


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## dbassist

Great info on ranges! I have been told that there is a brand called Castle that is very good. Anybody know of them? Thanks.


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## phatch

Go to www.nkba.org This group has great guidelines on space allocation for designing your kitchen. They are weak on hood ventilation in my opinion. I want lots more CFM than the average home cook and their numbers are low.

A word on lighting. Lots. Ok, some more words. Avoid halogen. Halogen light is great, but it' s hot. I don't need more heat in my kitchen. Flourescents have improved greatly, are energy efficient and produce much less heat.

Phil


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## jbuder

Does anyone have a recommendation for a home dishwasher that is quiet and FAST?


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## shawtycat

I just bought a built-in Whirlpool Gold from Sears and its rated #2.

Here are the specs:

Whirlpool Gold/Sears.com


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## jbuder

thanks, shawtycat. how long does it take to clean & dry, from start to finish? i never see this listed in the official product info given about a dishwasher (or am i somehow just missing this? i can't be the only one who thinks this is an important part of the decision).


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## shawtycat

I don't rightly know how long these things are supposed to go. The normal cycle takes 73 minutes!  So I started using the Quick Wash that only goes for 45.  Other homeowners in my area assure me that dishwashers do take that long to wash. And that mine is quick. Really??

I confess to still handwashing my dishes sometimes. Ive been doing it for 19 years so its hard to quit now. I use my dishwasher for the pots and pans and baby bottles. Youd be amazed at how that stuff piles up in my house. I dont have enegy to do all that washing.


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## dbassist

Hi Bella,

I happen to be in the same boat as you. I am looking into getting a new range for my home. The only problem is cost is a consideration for me so I may end up with only a range top with a lower priced oven. Have you had any luck making a decision on a range? I read all the info you got and was very impressed. Unfortunately, my head is spinning.


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## bella

Hi Dbassist,

Thanks for your note. I am sorry it took so long to answer, but I have not been on my computer lately.

As I said, I am really sold on the Dacor range top. It comes in many different configurations. You can even get the griddle and wok attachment for it. It has a special simmering burner on which you can melt chocolate (no double burner) without it burning. This was a great interest to me as I do work with chocolate alot! If you go to their website, they will send you a bunch of info.

My best recommendation is to go to a local kitchen remodeling place and talk with the people there. I think you will get better answers out of a local owner that has been in business for several years, than you will get from someone in a large, major home appliance store.

Some remodelers will even come into your house and give you ideas on how to arrange things and which would be best for your situation.

Good luck, and have fun.

I know what you mean when you say it is overwhelming. I can't imagine building a house and having to pick everything out!

Bella


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## jbuder

shawtycat,
45 minutes sounds good to me. but i wish there were a home dishwasher that worked in 1/2 hour or so! sure would be great to get apps dishes and soups done before the dinner & dessert plates pile up!


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## davegrogan

Thanks for the posts on this thread. I am currently looking for a 36" residential range. It has been narrowed down to Wolf, Dacor or Garland. My wife and I love to cook, entertain and I will also be making grilled cheese sandwiches for my two girls on it...?
Any further advice from owners of these ranges, chefs or experienced kitchen warriors would be greatly appreciated.
Dave Grogan.


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## panini

We will be building a house next year. I've decided to go completely commercial. My BIL is a builder and has done many high dollar kitchens. It's seems anything that makes the residential equipment easier ie. cleaning,maintaining etc. is the parts that will not last a lifetime. In reefers the only thing you are receiving for the extra buck is insolation in the compressor compartment for noise. I've decided to go with a standard 2 door cooler with top compressor against an outside wall,vented. We just don't freeze that much so we will go with something really small in the pot room.
Insolating residential ovens is needed when there is not proper ventilation. There are also many ways to insolate these ovens decoratively.I have actually used two of My BIL designed kitchens with side exhaust hoods and was very pleased.
just my thoughts


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## peachcreek

A friend of mine put in a Wolf 6 burner range w/ grill and double ovens in her house maybe 15 years ago. Her stove was MUCH better than the range I had at my restaurant at that time. VENTILATION is a word I can't stress enough. First, the heat from having 9 pilot lights going all the time DID heat up the house And firing up a big oven was unpleasant in the Summer. Also. RETURN AIR (fresh air from outside) is AS IMPORTANT! A poorly ventilated range in a "super good cents" home would probably eat up the oxygen in your kitchen faster than you know!


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## panini

I absolutely agree. We have actually considered an elevated section of the home(pier&beam) for the kitchen with breezeways on two sides for 3 exterior walls. This will allow direct fresh air return and unobstructed exhausted air. We even tossed around the idea of some return air from under the floor since this might be cooler. The air has been a very big issue with us since here in the summer it's sometimes to hot to grill outside unless you can reach your grill from the pool, and that's with having your ice guy come by on fridays to drop a 300 pounder in.


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## mikelm

Take a look at a website called

www.kitchens.com

Well, I've never seen it myself, but read about it in a newspaper article this morning. The writer (in the Contra Costa Times) called the site a "home-owner-oriented" site that "gives homeowners an in-depth look at options for all aspects of kitchen design... also spotlights independent kitchen and bath designers and the products and services they offer."

I'm going to look at it as soon as we get home, as I'm looking at a bath tearout and a kitchen rebuild. Sounds like it might be useful start.

Mike


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## isa

One can spend a lot of time dreaming about the perfect kitchen...


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## cmvnatural

Bella,

I've been a luxury home builder and avid chef for many years. Here's what I would recommend currently:

Refrigerators: SubZero, KitchenAid, ColdTech
Ranges/Cooktops: DCS, Wolf, Dynasty, Thermador, Dacor, Miele
Dishwashers: KitchenAid, Miele, Fisher & Paykel
IceMakers: KitchenAid
Wine Coolers: SubZero (very spendy), KitchenAid
Trash Compactors - Don't buy them at all!
Wall Ovens/Microwaves: Wolf, DCS, KitchenAid, Miele

I do not recommend Viking, 5-Star, Garland (not making residential anymore), GE Monogram (some items are OK, others not OK).

I would recommend purchasing an inexpensive paperback book on kitchen design, Kitchen Design with Cooking in Mind by Donald Silvers (available at www.amazon.com). Don was a professional chef for 15 years before being a commercial/residential kitchen designer for the last 25 years and designs kitchens from a cooking, as well as, an aesthetic perspective.

Good luck, CMVnatural:chef:


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## cmvnatural

Bella (and others),

I was at the the Kitchen & Bath Industry Show in Chicago earlier this year and tried/tested just about everything. I still stick with my earlier post, but here are a few caveats:

On the ranges, I really like DCS the best with their new sealed burners. They go from 17,500Btu down to 140 degree simmer (you can hold your hand over the flame and not burn your hand. Their range/cooktop grills are also very good and have dual-sided grates for really good flareup control. Built like a TANK. Agree with NY Cook's comments - Viking is a MARKETING company, rather than a well-built product company. Do not buy KitchenAid for now, as their pro-style ranges/cooktops have their top burners all ***-backward (simmer burners up front with saute burners in back - WRONG!).

On the refrigerators, yes, SubZ has dual compressors, which you will pay about $800 more for vs. a KitchenAid. They claim food will last longer in their units, which my Kitchen Designer, Don Silvers, says is true (he has a SubZ in his home). For big families, I recommend the ColdTech units (www.coldtechusa.com). 40 cubic feet, dual compressors (quiet), 30 cubic feet refer, 10 cubic feet freezer.

Wall ovens - The new Wolf wall ovens are really the Cadillac of the group. Dual convection fans in each oven and they are built like TANKS. DCS is also good with their gas radiant broilers (similar to the infrared broilers in the ranges).

Dishwashers - Miele and KitchenAid are very good. Fisher & Paykel is OK as long as you remember to keep the JetDry reservoir full. All 3 very quiet. KitchenAid will be coming out early next year with an in-sink dishwasher that can do primarily a load of glasses/plates in only 18 minutes. Granted, not a 2 minute cycle as in restaurants, but a lot faster than most residential dishwashers.

IceMakers - I like KitchenAid as they produce "clear" ice similar to restaurants, rather than the cloudy stuff you get in your refrigerator.

Wine Coolers- I like SubZ, as you can acutally have 2 different climate zones in the same cooler. Not cheap at over $2,000 each for a 24-inch undercounter model. KitchenAid is OK. Stay away from U-line. Marvel is OK.

Good luck, CMVnatural:chef:


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## panini

You see we have changed our minds about building and are in the process of purchasing an existing home. Great house!! but small galley kitchen. JenAir convection, looks like the first ever made. Replaceing that with a Wolf convection with 2 speed fan.
I have a problem not fitting a sheet pan inside.I really wanted to remove the existing cooktop and gut the cabinets under to put in a range. I just wasn't happy with anything I saw, especially the venting. The options were an island cap or a regular cap, both witch vented towards the front. I could'nt stop thinking that if I had the oven cranked to reheat that the vented air would heat any pot that might be on the back burner. So I decided to go with a cooktop. I really liked the Viking drop in with the dials on top. I just read that the burners were stamped steel, but I will have to go back and check, they looked cast to me. 
I looked at all the ice boxes. I ended up choosing a box with the freezer draw on the bottom . Most of them are made by Amana. I use one of my in-line water filters from our coffee machines for the ice maker and didn't feel the need to go to sub-zero dollars since I'm still the type to shop frequently especially to entertain.
Ice maker and small fridge in the bar area. Keeping those only replacing the small cooler with one with more freezer space for ice creams. We have plans to turn this bar area(very nice, granite tops, brass etc.) into a dessert bar. This will give me more space in the kitchen since we'll have the coffee/capp., blender, milkshake blender in that area.
I don't think I will ever use the trash compactor and was pleasantly surprized to find a 15" wine cooler to put in it's place. 1500. 30 bottle cap.
Probably going with the Kitchen aid dishwasher. has the short 40 min. cycle.
Probably going with the cheaper Viking hood w/interior fan VS exterior.
Going all stainless except for wine cooler.
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated since we have not purchased anything yet, closing on the 15th Oct. I really wanted to go commercial but can't do much renovating right now.$$$$$
I found the best prices at the Great Indoors. They could really cut me a deal on all the appliances exept Viking.
TIA


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## dbassist

I just bought the KitchenAid 30" pro style range. I don't see anywhere on their web site a mention of having simmer burners up front and saute burners in the back as CMVnatural mentioned. Everything I've seen only mentions that they are each (4 sealed burners) 15, 000 BTU's. I'm picking it up on Tuesday and I can't wait!! I got a great deal at Sears, of all places. I got if for $3,000. because I used the Sears card (10% discount) and no tax because it's NH.


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## panini

I don't know if you have Great Indoors where you are, they carry everything and all brands, and they are owned by sears.


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## dbassist

No, we don't have that store-that I know of. I looked at a hood vent at Sears. It's basically a Kenmore that is a direct copy of the Broan European hood. The problem is my ceiling is 12' 5" high and Sears wants to charge me $160 for each foot of extra flue pipe I need. I found a great funky looking hood vent at Expo Center. It's a Zephyr, Savona M90S. Anybody have any advice regarding this brand?


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## cmvnatural

Panini,

That all looks fine. Stay away from Viking hoods with internal blowers - VERY NOISY. Go with Vent-a-Hood. Much quieter, and easier to clean (not to mention less expensive). Good luck, CMVnatural:chef:


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## cmvnatural

Dbassist,

I stand corrected. On KA's 30-inch Proline range, you have four 15,000 Btu burners. On their larger 36 and 48-inch ranges, two of the burners in front are 6,000Btu simmer burners and the rest ard 15,000Btu burners. Better to put in all 15,000Btu burners and then just use simmer plates to diffuse the heat. Good luck with your purchase! CMVnatural:chef:


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## cmvnatural

Panini,

I realize that you just bought this model from Sears, but before you pick anything up, I would strongly suggest if you can to look at the 30-inch DCS 5-burner gas range. It has 5 rather than 4 burners, the 5th burner at 17,500Btu (nice for stir-fry), and the other 4 at 16,000Btu. The oven has an infrared broiler (far superior to electric), true flow convection, self-cleaning, and the racks are on ball-bearing rollers (nice and easy). It retails for about $3,600. While a few more dollars than KA, it is also built like a tank (try the oven door on the KA and then the DCS and then you'll understand). Also, the DCS burners go from way high to very low simmer (140 degrees), whereas with KA's, you'll have to get simmer plates to diffuse the heat enough. No, I don't work for DCS, but I've seen and tested their stuff and it is one of the best out there. 

Also, for your and many others info, the guys testing these things at Consumer Reports, by and large, don't know how to cook. They think the sole measure of a cooktop is how fast it boils water and whether it scorches chocolate when melting. Well, virtually most electric cooktops will boil water faster than gas because the heat source is in direct contact with the bottom of the pan. Where the electrics lose it is in the high heat needed for finishing dishes to restaurant quality standards. Also, most knowledgable chefs and gourmets melt chocolate in a double boiler, bain marie, or in a microwave, not directly on a burner. So, I don't give much credence to Consumer Reports. I'd rather look at publications like Cook's Illustrated and Fine Cooking, and watch shows like America's Test Kitchen for people who know how to cook and then get their opinions. It also doesn't hurt to ask a few local chefs in town. There's my two cents. Good luck, CMVnatural.:chef:


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## dbassist

I appreciate your input. I agree with your assessment on Consumer Reports. The Kitchen Aid is also built like a tank. I definately love the DCS too. I just can't go over budget any more than I am now. I really hate to "settle" for something but I think the Kitchen Aid is well built stove too. I hope I'm right.


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## panini

CMV,
I haven't bought yet but really appreciate the input. I'm leaning toward the cooktop with wall oven. I liked the viking but haven't made up my mind.
I looked at the 36" model with the grill, don't know about infared, but most grills were in the 20-22000. range and it seemed to me that these are designed for marking only. 
I will go out and look at the DCS range, I don't think I saw it. I can go either way, wall or range. Give me a recoprocating saw and I'm in heaven.
OMG!!!! I just opened the bid for the counter tops.


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## cmvnatural

Panini,

On the infrared broilers, those are in the ovens, not on the grill on top. Wolf, on their rangetops, offer infrared charbroilers, which are VERY HOT and very good. Personally, I like the charbroilers on DCS because they have a better grease management system. No, they're not just for marking the meat. Your outdoor BBQ's individual burners are normally 25,000Btu, so they're pretty close to that. Stay away from Viking. Good luck, CMVnatural:chef:


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## panini

Ok, heres the latest. My measurements are pretty awkward so that is the reason for mix and match on the appliances. Got my bid tonight, DCS cooktop 36"....Vent a hood vent dbl fan 1000cfm...kitchen aid double convection/micro.conv. wall oven...
kitchen aid dishwasher... kitchen aid fridge...(matching handles important for the Mrs.) All stainless
Keep in mind the lack of space(small galley kitchen)
silestone counters(like the color choice over granite) 
really nice under counter kohler one compartment sink(very deep, like an old fashioned baby tub) monhe fawcet,
Any thoughts (placing order Fri, morn)
PS when we entertain I usually premake a lot at the bakery and bring it home. Am I lacking on oven space? Do have two heat lamps in the vent a hood.


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## cmvnatural

Panini,

On the DCS 36-inch cooktop, make sure it's the newest model with the 17,500Btu burners and whether or not you want the grill, griddle, or 6 burners vs. the 4 burners plus griddle or grill.

On the Vent-a-Hood, for a 36-inch cooktop, should be a 42-inch hood (which is a standard size for them). If it's got two dual blowers, that's 1,200CFM, or you could get 1 dual blower and 1 single blower-900CFM. If you're having 6 burners or 4 with griddle, the 900CFM should be fine. If you're going with the 4 plus grill, get the 1,200CFM (better to ventilate the smoke).

On the KitchenAid wall oven, if you're getting a combo single wall oven with built-in microwave, personally, I think you're better off gettting full double wall ovens (two 30-inch convection wall ovens in one cabinet) and then if you can afford it and have the space, get their built-in microwaves. If not, then you can get one of their countertop models and either put it on the counter or build it in with one of their trim kits. That extra 30-inch wall oven will be invaluable to you, esp. if you're cooking different things with different temperatures.

On the KA dishwasher, make sure it's the top line model (you can check these on KA's website. I'd go with the Architect Series all stainless steel with the big oval handles (on the refrigerator too). If 36" refer, OK, if side-by-side, get at least 42-inch if not 48-inch model (the freezer in the 36" side by side is too small).

The Kohler sink should be fine, but if you're going to mount undercounter, be sure they can beef up the installation as their cast-irons sinks are VERY heavy. You might consider a deep stainless steel sink by Franke or Elkay.

I would not waste the money on the heat lamps in the hood. You're better off getting a warming drawer (KitchenAid is fine). You can put this in the same cabinet as your double 30" wall ovens, or you can put it adjacent to the 36" cooktop if you have the room.

Silestone is fine - nice product. SPENDY. 

Good luck, CMVnatural:chef:


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## panini

CMV
Thank you, you're a wealth of information which I value.
My BIL who builds home talked me out of the cast iron sink last night. Thanks.
All the KA appliances are the achitect style, a little pricey but corordinated with the handles.
The DSC cooktop is a five burner with a little wok ring. 
The vent, you're right, 900CFM. called this morning and informed me that the 10" won't accept the heat lamps. solved that. What is your feeling about the no filter thing. I'm not up on this at all.
It seems pretty easy to clean but it also seems that there is a lot more to clean. Aren't the fans going to get cruddy also?
On the wall oven, it's telling that the micro is also a convection.
Is that not right? I really did not look closely at the panel but I assumed that it also doubled as a small convection. I'm very limited on space. Have to go with the 27" VS 30"... I really also like the fact of the hidden elements.
The silestone a little cheaper then the granite(plus no sealing)
but almost the same price as the corrian.
thoughts?


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## cmvnatural

Panini,

OK, I went back and looked at DCS' website and see the cooktop you're looking for. I think it's OK, so long as you really think you won't have the need for a grill. As far as a griddle, I'd recommend getting one that fits over the burners (built-in ones normally don't get used much and are hard to clean). You might also look at their 36-inch professional-style cooktop. That's the one I was referring to earlier. On the 36-inch model you're speaking of, only the center burner is 17,500Btu - the others are 16,000Btu. On the professional cooktops, all of the burners are 17,500Btu (as Tim, the Tool Man Taylor would say, "MORE POWER").

I don't have a problem with the filter situation on the Vent-a-Hood. The fans use centrifugal force to expel the grease, which ends up on the inside walls of the housing. You just pull it off periodically and wash it in your sink. With normal mesh and baffle filters, you have to do the same thing, but are noisier because the fans are "pulling" instead of "pushing". No, don't think the fans will get cruddy. You should call Vent-a-Hood in Texas and ask them about it (they're on the web too). I've been at their plant and tested both their hoods vs. Thermador, Viking, and Broan, and they are by far the quietist. Also, please specify that you want the two-speed sensor fan blowers. What happens it that when you turn on the blowers, each blower will operate at half-speed (150CFM), and then when the temperature gets over a certain amount, then it will kick onto full speed (300CFM per fan) to expel the heat, odors, and grease.

On the KA Microwave/Wall Oven combo, yes, the micro is also a small convection oven. Not a lot of space in there, but handy. The 27" models are OK. That's why I suggested just putting the micro on the countertop, or build it in undercounter, or hang it from the bottom of the upper cabinets so it doesn't take up counter space. The only thing I ever use my microwave for is heating up leftovers (no, I do my popcorn in a pot on the burners-can't stand the microwave stuff).

Thanks for the info on Silestone - I haven't used it before, but from what I've seen, it's a very good product. It's also similar to DuPont's Zodiaq quartz countertops (93% quartz with the rest being the glues that hold the quartz chips together).

Good luck, CMVnatural:chef:


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## dbassist

CMV,

FYI I've been using my KitchenAid pro style range for a week now and I'm very impressed. It's a tank. So far every feature is excellent. I was a little skeptical about the digital oven feature but it too is excellent. It's really simple to use and seems to be exact. Thanks for all your advice.


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## cmvnatural

Dbassist,

Good news for KitchenAid! Yeah, they're one of the few brands of the "commercial-type" stuff that is more user friendly (like oven timers). Do you get enough heat in the burners, and does the convection oven work well? I'll pass along the info to my contract sales friends at KitchenAid. Thanks, CMVnatural.:chef:


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## dbassist

The burners are each 15, 000 BTU's and are great. I love the coninuous grates. I've only used the convection oven once. It seems to work great. I'll an apple pie in the next few days. It'll be nice not having to turn the pie so each side of the top browns evenly.

Some of the nice features include;

Oven lights go on when oven is on
Digital readout lets you know how close to pre-heat temp you are
Beeps when set temp is reached
Convection fan and heating coil automatically turn off when you open the door and go back on when you close the door
Oven racks are very solid and do not stick

Tomorrow I start taking down cabinets so I can install our new Zephyr Savona model vent hood.

CMV,

Vent-a-hood recommends using a 36" hood for a 30" stove. I have not seen even one picture of a range with a hood that is larger. Have you? The reason I ask is that we are going to put in a backsplash of stainless that goes from behind the stove up to the top or our 12' 5" ceiling. It should be very striking. I think the stainless will have to be 36" wide to match the hood, not 30" wide like the stove. What do you think?

Thanks.


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## cmvnatural

Dbassist,

On all commercial-type equipment (w/15,000 Btu burners), you always size the hood 3 inches larger on each side of the range, so the 36" hood for a 30" range is correct. The reason they don't show that in the pictures in the literature is because they like everything to look symmetrical in those photos. Use the 36" wide stainless backsplash - that's fine. Good luck, CMVnatural


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## mudbug

Great info!

:bounce:


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## dbassist

A quick additional comment or two. I've had the stove for over a year now. It is awesome. I bought a Zephyr 36" range hood which works great and looks great. We also put a 36" wide stainless backsplash all the way up to the ceiling. We have a 12' ceiling so it is an attention getter. The KitchenAid range has made us better cooks. It has always worked perfectly.


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## anandsang

I am confused 

Help Needed


We are remodeling and making new larger kitchen . We are looking for new appliances. So far we liked

Dacor- Epicure- 36 inch cooktop
Reasons: Good looking, 15000 BTU- 6 BURNERS, CONTINUES GRATES- Most important for us is Porcelain surface, which can be easy to clean

Dacor-Epicure- 30 inch- Range and Microwave combo
Reasons: Matches cooktop and does good job

Mille- Dishwasher:
Reasons- One of the best in the market (That's what I believe)

Need feedback and recommendations for Refrigerator.
Please give me any other ideas if you have.

Thank you very much
anandsang


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## nick.shu

im probably not right but if i am, then a garland is a dog. i have a garland at work and i find that its design is pretty much more complicated than what it should be.

However, i am commenting from the Aussie perspective, and chances are that this piece of equipment is totally unrelated to the plant that you guys are discussing.

Also, the commercial cookery series of stoves, et.al. run at a higher gas pressure than the domestic.

nick


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## happychef

Hi.

Has anyone heard of Gaggenau? Good or bad.


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## suzanne

I've no direct experience, but Gaggenau stuff looks GREAT. And the company has been around for a long time. Their catalogue is one I drool over.


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## scott123

I'm a little late to this conversation, but with all of the mention of "Tanks" I can't help thinking of Aga stoves. The're not really suited for everything, but if you have 10,000+ bucks to play around with and a lot of space, give these a look at.


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## mia8

Do you have any suggestions for double wall convection ovens for the home?  

Durability for sustainable baking is key.

Thanks


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## maitta654

We were frustrated for 6 years with a KA double oven.  It was always having issues and so many mother boards replaced.

It got to that point that you go the store and say sell me the most reliable double oven.  We were told to buy the Thermador..

Nightmare gully. The first day it was installed we had a problem. it was repaired then within a week another problem.  We must have a lemon but I cannot afford to wait for Thernador 

I need dependability,  What do I get, Wolf?  

Thermador now wants to just replace it but I am too concerned to get another lemon,I do not want them getting the bugs out of their new line at my expense.   I need a double oven I can count on.  I cook often in volume.  My home is the center where everyone meets and celebrates all occasions.  

I am reaching out for feedback.

maitta


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## pauliev

Hi Guys,

I am getting ready to put in a new kitchen and I could use some advice. I am leaning toward Kitchen Aid for everything (36" fridge, 2 30" ovens and a DW) but the cook top. I like the idea of everything matching and they appear to be good quality and fairly priced... any thoughts?

More importantly, I am looking at a 36" range top. I am considering American Range, 5 Star and Kitchen Aid. I found your post helpful, but haven't seem much else out there. Are you familiar with American Range and what do you think about the Kitchen Aid stuff?

36 In. Width | 20K BTU Ultra Power[emoji]8482[/emoji] Burners | 5K BTU Simmer/Melt Burner *(Range Top)*

Kitche Aid - Base Model: KGCU467VSS | $2,749.00 

American Range 36 In. Width 6 Burner

Model: ARSCT-366


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## niccolo donzell

I have a gas Wolf range, nearly ten years old, and have been very happy with it. Not sure what the price for a cook top is currently. I have a KA DW that has performed well. I don't have any experience with KA refrigerators. I have had the typical KA failures and disappointments with the stand mixer, but that is a different line entirely. Good luck.


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