# Butt Space in the Kitchen



## miss kim78 (Mar 17, 2013)

It is not unusual to be in a professional kitchen and share a space that is far less than "spacey".I am wondering what some of the worst "space" issues that other chefs have experienced. I am currently working the pantry and dessert stations, which are back to back. I am usually by myself most of the time, working both stations. But when there is a rush, there are two bodies in the cramped space (barely a foot and a half wide, with both of us always "butt bumping". I am so relieved that my "spacemate" is someone who is petite. Had it been someone large, I don't think that I would be able to move around at all.


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## boyo1991 (Feb 25, 2013)

I am but a lowly fry dessert and salad station cook, but I have got to say.. its sooooo cramped. steaks and what we call "mid" which takes care of the flat skillet grill cook work and my station are all on the same 30 foot line. the line between the table and the fryer is about... 4 ft so no we have noooo space.

our freezer is insanely small and the cooler has racks in it that makes getting things out of the freezer virtually impossible..

however, I love the guys I work with and we make fun of the limited space.. helps ease the fact that it is so small haha


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## miss kim78 (Mar 17, 2013)

Lol Boyo..that is good that you get along great with your coworkers. That would really suck if you were “trapped” in the stations with people you don’t like. Some of the guys at my work have foul B.O. and I am so glad I don’t work near them or, even worse, trapped in my cramped little space working butt to butt with them. Also, there are some perverts at where I work who seem to have Asian fetish. I think they would enjoy “butt bumping” too much.


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## greg (Dec 8, 1999)

I once worked with a guy that was 5'7" and around 300 lbs. The line was about the same as the one boyo works: long, but narrow. Whenever he tried to get past me at my station, he'd invariably knock my utensils on the floor trying to squeeze by.


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## miss kim78 (Mar 17, 2013)

Dang Greg. Yeah, it seems like many kitchens aren't designed for the grotesquely obese. But ironically there seems to be a lot of fat chefs. Why can't they just design larger kitchens so people can work comfortably?!


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## wpgcook (Dec 26, 2012)

Space seems to be a concern in most kitchens. I designed a kitchen for a restaurant that had moved to a new larger location. On paper the floor plan looked great, lots of room to move around and everything within reach for each of the stations. However, as we grew (and we grew fast!), we had to add more equipment, a couple of more staff and soon we were butt-bumping everywhere.

In the restaurant I'm at now, I re-designed the kitchen to give us more work space for prep which would double for service space at night. That was two years ago. Since then, we've added another two work tables, a second conveyor pizza oven, a larger pizza station, a larger salad station and a larger stove/oven. On Friday and Saturday nights we have nine cooks on the line and it gets really tight. When everything works it's like watching a ballet but one screw-up and it turns into a Marx Brothers movie.


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## junglist (Jul 13, 2010)

I currently work in the smallest kitchen I've ever worked in, and the same goes for my co-workers. Our line is maybe 6-7 feet long, with about 2-3 feet of space between the line and the pass. Before our 'renovation' our garde manger had about the same length to work with, now they have a quarter of the space. Fortunately it's usually the head chef and I working the line, and we are both average to skinny sized.

What throws us off is when our 'consultant' feels the need to step into the line when he's supposed to be expediting. If he actually did something helpful it'd be one thing, but he usually just gets in the way and takes up valuable space. So many times I'm tempted to whack him with a pan or stab him with a knife. And when he's expediting, he has a whole 7-8 feet to himself, yet he has the nerve to say he has too little space to plate from sizzle platters/finish plates/wipe down plates. Even with him across the pass, I'm still tempted to throw a pan at him/stab him with a knife...

Consider yourself lucky you don't work in our kitchen Miss Kim; our head chef has an infatuation for asian women. He'd be butt-bumping you _all _the time /img/vbsmilies/smilies/rollsmile.gif


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## pancake house (Feb 6, 2013)

There are only 2 times in life I'll touch butts with other cooks.

1) fighting chits online
2) fighting zombies. 

I have had some cramped spots online. There is always a coworker that takes up so much real estate it's like orbiting a planet.

My worst choke point was in my old place. You had to twist to clear a 10" wide overlap of a deck oven and the end of a line. Always had to be careful not to just open the oven without looking.


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## miss kim78 (Mar 17, 2013)

Junglist, yeah, I hate it when people get in the way of our precious butt spaces. Our bussers comes to our station to get bread and amuse servings. I don't understand why they kept taking just enough for a few orders at a time, making them have to come back to invade our space every 15 minutes. I asked them to just take everything or at least as much as they can. It's better for me, better for them because they won't have to keep coming back and forth repeatedly. I don't get their method of doing things.

Speaking of Asian fetishes, it seems like every kitchen I step into, I always seem to experience dealing with these perverts. Many of them are Hispanic and they act like they have never seen an Asian woman before and make comments like "Ohh Chinita bonita," assuming that I don't know what they are saying. I am not even Chinese, but they think every Asian woman is a China or Chinita lol.

Pancake House, I have had that similar situation, too. That is a horrible place to put an oven. Why do they do that to us?? Sometimes I think people just want to see the kitchen suffer.


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## boyo1991 (Feb 25, 2013)

Miss Kim78 said:


> Lol Boyo..that is good that you get along great with your coworkers. That would really suck if you were "trapped" in the stations with people you don't like. Some of the guys at my work have foul B.O. and I am so glad I don't work near them or, even worse, trapped in my cramped little space working butt to butt with them. Also, there are some perverts at where I work who seem to have Asian fetish. I think they would enjoy "butt bumping" too much.


haha ive found that at most kitchens, your going to find that asian pervert HAHA. as we all know, the kitchen isnt usually the "friendliest" place in the world.. some of them dont interact with people at all except those he or she works with. so they get comfortable enough to start being perverted.. a shame, but true


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## cookon (Mar 2, 2013)

I really feel for all of you. Try cooking on a train. Even worse a private train car with a postage stamp space including coal fired range. The first requirement of a line cook was that he fit. Yes I said "he". Having a women in that space would have been, well awkward to say the least. But again today, who knows.




  








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## miss kim78 (Mar 17, 2013)

Lol I think more than half of the Hispanic guys at my work has hit on me at one time or another...the bussers, cooks, and dishwashers. It gets annoying and creepy. I am sooo glad that none of them are working near my area. It seems like sexual harassment is not that uncommon in the kitchen when you are working with a bunch of uncouth savages. I have had a coworker asking me to give him a kiss, another one asking me to be his gf, etc....and they act like hitting on coworkers is normal and acceptable.These perverts should all take a class on sexual harassment 101.


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## junglist (Jul 13, 2010)

Miss Kim78 said:


> ...comments like "Ohh Chinita bonita," assuming that I don't know what they are saying. I am not even Chinese, but they think every Asian woman is a China or Chinita lol...


I feel you sister, I get the same 'Chinito!' from all the latinos/latinas. I don't know why I keep trying, but I'm always like 'No Chinito, _Cam-bo-di-an.' _First couple of times it'll be like 'Cambogyan!' then it just goes back to 'Chinito!'. That's when I start calling everyone 'Mexican' even though most in this area are El Salvadorian 

My head chef is actually an Italian, with a fetish for asian women. I swear one of the reasons I was hired by him was because he thought I would have this army of hot asian women at the ready for him to plunder. A new server who's half Japanese just started working with us, and one of the first things the head chef says to me, 'Hey, ask him if he has any asian lady friends.' All I could say was '_You _ask him you man ho!'

Sorry this is all OT /img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif


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## kostendorf (Mar 15, 2012)

with me it is banging my head.  the walk in freezer, the shelfs in the pantry and where we keep the pizza paddle.  all set up for a small person.  and the counters are too low.


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## miss kim78 (Mar 17, 2013)

Lol Kostendorf..how tall are you? Yeah, the kitchen is not large/tall person-friendly. I hate that. Sometimes not always short-person friendly either. A lot of times, things are up too high and we either have to get a ladder or ask someone to get it for us.

Junglist..that sounds so inappropriate for the head chef to be asking his workers to pimp him lol.

And I just started telling the guys that hit on me that I am a lesbian lol (which I'm not).


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## wpgcook (Dec 26, 2012)

kostendorf said:


> with me it is banging my head. the walk in freezer, the shelfs in the pantry and where we keep the pizza paddle. all set up for a small person. and the counters are too low.


Same thing in my kitchen. I'm 6 ft. and almost all my staff are 5 ft. tall. I'm constantly banging my head on hanging utensils and pans.


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## pancake house (Feb 6, 2013)

WpgCook said:


> Same thing in my kitchen. I'm 6 ft. and almost all my staff are 5 ft. tall. I'm constantly banging my head on hanging utensils and pans.


6ft plus club here too, with the new pair of clogs almost 6'4"

Not only are we constantly in danger of head trauma in kitchens, we're constantly asked to get things off shelves all day like human cranes too

Remember to thank your local tall person!


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## kostendorf (Mar 15, 2012)

yea kitchen chef human crane that is my job position


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

The butt-bumping phenomenon is pretty common in commercial kitchens.

As it is, I really cant say anything negative about it because....

years ago my first cooking job was in a small (yeah SMALL) Italian kitchen,

we had a line of pizza ovens and a range on one wall, the sandwich line, fridge

and freezer directly behind it. 48" or so of space down the middle.

Anyway there was this one waitress there, for some reason our timing was

always "in-synch" and we were constantly bumping tushes, We'd joke about

it etc, but it was actually kind of eerie. But even though I was only there a

year or so, this butt-bump story ended well. I married her! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif


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## miss kim78 (Mar 17, 2013)

Meezenplaz, what an endearing story. If you are working in a confined space with someone you get a thrill out of butt bumping with, that is a different story lol.

In my case, it's not that pleasant.

I am a "personal space" type of person. Since I entered the culinary world, the lack of spaciousness drove me nuts. I was a home cook, who enjoyed the luxury of cooking in a relaxing, peaceful, spacious environment. Then enter culinary school, having all those bodies in such a small confined area was overwhelming. And after working in the industry for a while, I have grown used to it somewhat.

And the fact that I sense that most of my pervert coworkers enjoy it too much creeps me out. It would be different if I was working with straight women lol. Now I understand why many kitchens are hesitant in hiring women.

Many of us would be much happier people if the kitchens were more spacious and better designed.


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## michaelga (Jan 30, 2012)

simple solution - creep them out more ...

anytime something touched my butt, i'd scream out 'do it again' or something more vulgar... this would embarrass them into never doing it again.

but i'm a 6 foot bearded guy...

for you i'd try something like 'does your mamma know you do that?' or 'married with kids!' or something even more over the top!

(try something religious)


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## scantron22 (Mar 30, 2013)

Miss Kim78 said:


> Lol I think more than half of the Hispanic guys at my work has hit on me at one time or another...the bussers, cooks, and dishwashers. It gets annoying and creepy. I am sooo glad that none of them are working near my area. It seems like sexual harassment is not that uncommon in the kitchen when you are working with a bunch of uncouth savages. I have had a coworker asking me to give him a kiss, another one asking me to be his gf, etc....and they act like hitting on coworkers is normal and acceptable.These perverts should all take a class on sexual harassment 101.


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## scantron22 (Mar 30, 2013)

Honestly, I hate to say this but you are a woman in a kitchen dealing with a bunch of guys who have madea living at playing grab ass with each other and oggling over sserves. The only remedy is to be a baddass bitch who can run circles around any guy in the kitchen. I worked with a few and have worshipped them


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## miss kim78 (Mar 17, 2013)

LOL..Scantron22, I know! I can only dream about working in a beautiful, spacious kitchen with all women (or we can throw in a couple of HOT guys in there), working in a calm, peaceful, SPACIOUS environment, listening to classical music all day. A girl can only dream lol. Oh wait…that sounds like my home kitchen on a girls' night in.


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Large  space/ small space  each have their advantages and disadvantages.. In small space and kitchens you walk less to get things and are more tired at end of day. A large place is a hike to get  anything and a lot ove movement involved.  I find as long as good ventelation and air supply and fairly quiet  they are about the same work wise overall


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## miss kim78 (Mar 17, 2013)

Ed, I guess it really depends on each individual. Personally, I am the type of person that prefers to have ample PERSONAL SPACE and not have extra bodies be in my way of getting around.But you are right. Each kitchen has its advantages and disadvantages.

This is the tiny little station I work in. In this photo, there are four bodies in that cramped space (three in the photo and I'm behind the camera). This was for a special event. There aren't normally four people at the station, usually two. Every time one of us has to bend down to reach into the low boy, one person has to move out of the way. And it would be impossible for both people to be bending down simultaneously. Moving around and walking by is a nightmare when another person(s) is there.





  








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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

Looks pretty typical to me. In fact looks like you have a good 36 to 42 inches between.

Ive seen far worse.... like barely being able to open one undercounter fridge door. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif


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## miss kim78 (Mar 17, 2013)

hmm no..it's more like less than two feet. i guess the photo is misleading. but trust me...it is TINY. i guess that is a common issue in most kitchens.why do they do this to us??!!


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## smork (Aug 27, 2012)

personally i love being able to take less then a full step from lets say stovetop to service/assembly area.   that picture looks more then ample room.   put some music on and do the dance when you have to.


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## michaelga (Jan 30, 2012)

The picture looks like a fine place with lots of space.

Maybe the people are all skinny little people - thus the space is actually very small.

I'd politely suggest that if you're butt bumping all the time with a co-worker, you might want to approach them privately.

That kitchen looks huge!

3 hips across!


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## miss kim78 (Mar 17, 2013)

It's not that they are purposely butt bumping me, but it is just unavoidable a lot of times because it is so cramped. The other guy that is there (when he's around) is very petite/skinny..THANK GOD! If it was a fat person, I wouldn't even be able to move. When a fat person comes around to our station, I swear, I literally cannot move at all. I get trapped in until they move out of my way and out of the station. I think the pic is misleading. The three hips are kind of diagonal. There is no way all three would have fit straight, laterally.


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## miss kim78 (Mar 17, 2013)

More pictures of my cramped space. I thank God every day that no fat people work at the station. Usually I am by myself..but here are a couple of pics of a coworker who comes and butt bumps me while we plate dishes.





  








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See..when the drawer is opened and another person is behind, it's so hard to move around without butt bumping!


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## sherman452 (Apr 21, 2013)

Miss Kim- it's called the "kitchen dance".  We professionals that have worked in this field for a long time are used to it and even pride ourselves on being good at the "kitchen dance".  From the tone of your posts, it sounds like you are just starting out in this field and have unrealistic ideas of how much room a person should have in their station.  As one of the other posters wrote, it is more efficient to be able to pivot on one foot or just bend and twist to do your tasks.  The pictures you posted look luxurious compared to the tiny, dark cramped places I've had to work in.  Working in a kitchen is not about cooking in a Martha Stewart production kitchen.  That is unrealistic.  It is about doing a difficult job that not many people can do and working in difficult environments that would have most people run screaming.  This is what makes us special.  This is what makes us chefs.

Also- it sounds like you have a problem with fat people.  I have worked with all kinds of cooks and chefs and some of the most balletic have been "fat chefs".


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## wvman2374 (Nov 11, 2012)

If you can open a drawer, stand IN FRONT of the open drawer, and still have room for someone to move behind you...then that means it is not a small space for a kitchen.

Or it means you are a leprechaun.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Why stand in front of the drawer? Why not stand to the side? I have worked with some fairly petite people before that work way too large because of how they work. Standing in front of the drawer rather than to the side is a perfect example. I have worked with some pretty fair size people that work small because of how they work. They stand to the side.


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## miss kim78 (Mar 17, 2013)

Cheflayne, we don't hang out right in front of the drawer all night. We move around all over the place in our little cramped station. From one photo of my "butt-space-mate" standing in front of the drawer, you make the assumption that we are standing, working right directly in front of drawer all night? Most of the time, he and I are on opposite sides and "bump butts" when we need to pass each other or need to get something from the low boy. 

Deborah, trust me..my expectations of the limited spacing in most kitchens, are very realistic. That is why I said, "I can only DREAM about working in a beautiful, spacious kitchen with all women (or we can throw in a couple of HOT guys in there), working in a calm, peaceful, SPACIOUS environment, listening to classical music all day. A girl can only DREAM lol." That, my dear, means only in my wildest fantasies, as I am very aware of that in reality, it's highly unlikely. 

And if it was something I couldn't deal with, I would have walked away from the industry a long time ago. Most of us have a thing or two that we are less than fond of in our careers. No matter how much we love what we do, there is often something we would change, if we could (then there are those that absolutely love EVERYTHING about their job..but I think it is fair to say that most of us fall into the first category). And I was sharing my stories with fellow cheftalkers, hoping to hear their stories of similar experiences…that is one of the things cheftalk is about, isn't it?...to share stories with folks working in the same industry that only we can relate to and understand, and learn new things as we listen when others share their experiences?? 

And I don't have a problem with fat people. Heck, I am fat myself (small framed, but still somewhat fat). But if my butt-space-mate was a huge 500lb person that blocked the entire space, took forever to move out of my way so I can get by, or as Greg's former coworker did, knock my utensils down every time he passed…then YES…I would have an issue with that. It directly affects the work flow.


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

> And I was sharing my stories with fellow cheftalkers, hoping to hear their stories of similar experiences…that is one of the things cheftalk is about, isn't it?...


 

Or at least used to be...

but I fear of late its become a place where even new posters seem to feel 

comfortable with speaking directly to the OP rather than the post itself, often making 

snap judgements and proceeding to "dress them down" in acccordance with 

their own opinions/beliefs, rather than as a helpful "correction" pursuant to commonly 

accepted culinary principles or even unwritten "kitchen-law", often resulting in the OP or 

other repliers being suddenly put in the defensive. I'm just sayin.....seems subtely more 

prevalent these days.

I still say the kitchen depicted looks more or less "typical" the trouble that I...personally have 

had in cramped common-use spaces like this, whether the person is..... well, "dimensionally challenged", 

or of more normal proportions, is when they dont LEARN the "dance", whether due to ignorance or defiant 

refusal.... they just go about their business, seemingly oblivious to anyone else needing immediate access

to (currently) "their" space. It slows everything down, disrupts the flow, and just makes for tension 

from sink-to-stove. A well run kitchen, even when full of working personnel, really is like a symphony, 

working in unison, to produce the intricate culinary harmony that we all have come to ....blah blah, oh 

never mind this is starting to sound cornier by the second. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/tongue.gif


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