# Help! Starter doesn't look like Ernest



## risa (May 11, 2001)

I started a Silverton starter on Wednesday night, so I am just under 2 days on it now. It doesn't look like Kyle's Ernest  It looks more like Frank on Day 4 except all the separated brown liquid is on the bottom and the foamy milkshake stuff is on top. I opened it and smelled it and there's a slight yeasty, fruity smell but no stink yet. It's probably ok but I thought I better check.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Stay the course! I doubt is really matters whether the hootch is on the bottom or the top. With Frank it switched from one day to the next. Just let it sit and get funky 

[ August 24, 2001: Message edited by: KyleW ]


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Risa,

Kyle is right.

If you started with sterilized equipment, you have nothing to worry about. Just continue to follow the instructions (attentively) and you shouldn't have any problems. It does look funky though and it will get worse. Just sit tight.

I would suggest that you read the previous posts on the subject, especially the ones where Kyle commenced his "mission". It's a 14 day quest and the road may seem a little bumpy in it's early days.

Let us know how it's doing from time to time.

BTW, did you give your starter a name?


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## thebighat (Feb 21, 2001)

Who knows where this quote came from, "Two maggots were fighting in dead Ernest."


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## risa (May 11, 2001)

I read all the previous posts several times before I even started. It just seemed like such a big undertaking. I haven't given my starter a name yet. I think I'll wait until it develops a bit more character.

BigHat: that is disgusting... I see one maggot in my starter and I'm chucking it!


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## thebighat (Feb 21, 2001)

I'll give you a hint..the movie starred Clifton Webb.


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## isaac (Jun 9, 2001)

well, if it doesnt work thats ok becasue all it is a flour and water. not like you are out a lot of money. 


having a steralized equipment (ie the container) i think is very important. 

good luck


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

My _guess_ is "Cheaper By the Dozen"


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

I'm impressed Kyle. How did you pull that out of the thin air?

Could it be imdb.com?


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

It's easy when you cheat . Isn't the internet great!

BTW, I'm taking a run @Struan today TBH. I have a different version than the one in Brother Juniper. Plenty of water. Recipe calls for a cup and I used 1/2.

[ August 25, 2001: Message edited by: KyleW ]


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Kyle,

Should I read a "Yes"


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Meaning where did I find the quote? It was not the site you mentioned. I put the quote into Google and found it that way. I forget the site.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

Risa - How's it going?

[ August 25, 2001: Message edited by: KyleW ]


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Thanks dubya!


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## thebighat (Feb 21, 2001)

OK, smart guy. Who brought "the ham from Siam, the shoes from Toulouse...."


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

MM 

Do you know these or are you looking them up too


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## thebighat (Feb 21, 2001)

MM is correct. I know them. And I went to google and was surprised to see how easy it was to turn them up. So who said this, and what did he nearly trip on, "Sleep tight, ya morons!"

[ August 25, 2001: Message edited by: thebighat ]


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Apparently, It was HC


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

This is too funny you guys. LOL LOL


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## thebighat (Feb 21, 2001)

Give that man a batard.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Risa - Your silence is deafening


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## risa (May 11, 2001)

sssshhhh... I only log in at work and I didn't work this weekend thankfully. My starter looks like Ernest now. The liquid is now on top and I gave it its day 4 refreshments. My problem now is that Day 10 unfortunately falls on Saturday and I'm going away for Labour Day weekend. What to do, what to do! I had considered packing it up in my car but I don't think it'd hold up too well in my little old car with no a/c unless I take it to the shop this week and my great big dog. Anyway, very bad timing on my part. I'm considering feeding it a day early and sticking it in the fridge for the weekend. Then, start regular feeding on Tuesday next week. Or I can stick it in the fridge the way it is and slow everything down?


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Risa,

My gut and intuition dictate to feed it a day early and stick it in the fridge for the weekend.

Lets see what our experts have to say since I have no hands-on for this problem! I meant TBH and KyleW... 

A moderator would be nice too, now that I think of it!



[ August 27, 2001: Message edited by: Kimmie ]


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

My guess is that you have lots of active little beasties by now. By Thursday you should see an increase in the number of bubbles rising out of the ooze and running to their death at the surface. If you do, I would feed it Thursday morning and let it sit out. I would feed it again Thursday night and put it in the fridge Friday morning. When you get back you can start to feed it again. Remember that if you are feeding it twice you need to feed it the same amount as if you were feeding it 3 times/day. I think it was 19.25 OZ of flour and 20 OZ water.

Just one man's opinion


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## risa (May 11, 2001)

Thanks Kyle. That sounds like good advice to me. I'm actually fortunate enough to be able to feed the starter three times a day since I go home for lunch to check on my other pet


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

How does your muck look today?


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## risa (May 11, 2001)

I actually forgot to look this morning. I used to have it sitting in the middle of my dining table because it was the coolest place aside from my bedroom. I now have it inside the box that my mixer came in and the box is beside the table. This was just so it doesn't gross people out when they come over. Last I looked, most of the goopy stuff is on the bottom and the reddish liquid on top with the grapes kinda in between. The smell wasn't too bad... a fruity and mild cheese smell.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Sounds perfect!

RE: The Box - I'd leave it out for all to see and skeeve over. Then, when they are drooling over your bread, remind them of its origins.

[ August 28, 2001: Message edited by: KyleW ]


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

WHat you need Risa is a starter sitter...


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Are you applying for the job Iza?


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Are you in need of a sitter Kimmie?


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

No thank you Iza. I thought you would apply to sit upon Risa's starter.


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Sure I'd go everywhere to sit starter if travel expenses are paid. 

Anyone is Hawaii need a sitter?


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)




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## risa (May 11, 2001)

Iza: I don't think you'd much like a trip to Springfield, all expenses paid or not. There isn't really much here and it's terribly hot right now.

Update on my yet-to-be-named starter: My culture finally became a starter today (a day early but hopefully it'll be ok)! Not much happened after the first feeding and it pretty much looked the same as the culture except there was less of it and no more yucky grapes. The second feeding produced bubbles but nothing like Kyle's Ernest milkshake. In any case, I think it's alive!


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

As long as there are bubbles there is life! If you are feeding it 3 times a day it probably wasn't 12 hours at the second feeding. My milkshake was at 12 hours after feeding it 19.25 OZ. of Flour and 20 OZ. of water. My guess is that by the time of the third feeding you will have all the bubbles you could want


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Risa I wouldn't mind at all...


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

We haven't heard. How did your starter survive Labor Day weekend?


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## risa (May 11, 2001)

Zaza (short for Esperanza for various reasons) survived great since I didn't end up going away for the weekend. I had a fight with my boyfriend and now I'm wondering if I had the fight so I can stay home and watch over Zaza  She's nice and frothy and I'm going to make a couple of loaves tomorrow. So far, this whole sourdough experience has been very rewarding. Thank you all for passing along the bug. I'll take pics and post them. I haven't got around to buying bannetons yet so I'll have to use a colander, linen kitchen towels or freeform.

Did any of you feel guilty for all that flour that you have to throw away?


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Risa, if I may butt in. I made sour starter once but refuse to do so anymore. Throwing away some starter (or any perfectly good food) is a NO-NO for spiritual reasons. I don't have any friends who make bread either, so I can't give away the "throw away".

As far as bannetons go, the best prices are listed at the San Francisco Baking Institute. 

[ September 05, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Sure, it bugs me to through so much away. The way I look at it, I am saving some farmer somewhere from a date with the autioneer! Once your starter is good to go you can store as little as a cup and build it back before you bake. Your waste declines drastically. Glad to hear that Esperanza is alive and well.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

I'm with Kyle on this one, for the same reason. Besides, with a little luck, Esperanza with live for many many years to come. All she needs is a little TLC. Furthermore, as a precaution, I would dehydrate some, just as explained in previous posts on the subject.



[ September 05, 2001: Message edited by: Kimmie ]


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## risa (May 11, 2001)

That reminds me. Nancy Silverton says something about just matching the starter once it's developed. Does this mean that when you feed it, you just give it the same amount at every feeding? Like if you have one cup of starter, you feed an equivalent amount for all three or however many feedings? I didn't understand what she meant.

I'm going to start a loaf tomorrow morning so that I can have a couple of loaves by Friday morning. Just that Country White Hearth bread or whatever it's called. J'espère que Esperanza fait du bon pain!


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

So happy Zaza is doing well. Hope she'll provide you with good bread.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Once the starter is mature you don't need to feed it 3 times a day. You can even stick it in the fridge! I think when she says match it, she means if you have 9 oz. of starter (about a cup) feed it 9 oz. of flour and 9 oz of water.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

That was my interpretation as well, Kyle.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

I've said it before, I'll say it again...

Great minds think alike 

[ September 06, 2001: Message edited by: KyleW ]


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Glad you think I'm among those!


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

How's the bread Risa??


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

KyleW:
When, in your previous post, you say to "match" the starter, are you talking fluid ounces versus avoirdupoids ounces?

9 oz starter (by volume or weight?)
To which I add:
9 oz water (fluid ounces, generally yes?)
9 oz flour (avoirdupoids ounces i.e. weight?)

I'm cornfused. 

[ September 07, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]


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## risa (May 11, 2001)

I was hoping for some sourdough bread this morning. Unfortunately, I got home late and missed my window of opportunity. I'm going to try to get home on time tonight and hopefully have some bread for tomorrow! Silverton is right; the bread schedule is very difficult.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Now it's my turn for questions -

1) What the **** is an avoirdupoids ounce?
2) How would you measure 9oz. of starter by volume?
3) Other than fluid, what kind of ounces of water are there?


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Kyle, my 4 years of college chemistry speweth forth.

Avoirdupoids (french meaning to have weight) ounces are ounces by weight, 16, 16 of 'em to the pound.

Fluid ounces are VOLUME as opposed to weight. 8 ounces to the cup. To measure 9 ounces first measure 1 cup then measure an additional ounce. But you knew that already!

The confusion in the American system is that liquid is measured in fluid ounces, other substances measured in ounces avdp. Do you see where the metric system eliminates this confusion by specifying either grams or cc's? In America with ounces being used for weight or volume, this will cause some confusion among lay persons.
  

[ September 07, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

To think that I have been able to bake all this bread without the benefit of any college chemistry. I guess it just goes to show, I'd rather be lucky than good


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

uh?


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## pastachef (Nov 19, 1999)

Wow, this gives me a whole new light on my most used cook book - Food For Fifty. I thought there was something wrong with the recipes, so I was always adjusting something. Thanks for the information.


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

KyleW, front and center, on the carpet pronto. My guess for starter nourishment is as follows:

starter 9 oz by weight
flour 9 oz by weight
water 9 oz by volume??????????

Tell me tell me tell me.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Let's assume shall we that a gallon of water weighs 8.345404 pounds. Now let's do some math and assume that 1 gallon of water also weighs 133.526 ounces Avoirdupois. If we can assume that there are 128 fluid ounces in one gallon of water, we should be able to agree that one fluid ounce weighs 1.0431718 ounces Avoirdupois. Therefore 9 fulid ounces would weigh 9.3885462 ounces Avoirdupois. You pick


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Awsome math work, KyleW! But wait, there's more. At what temperature and pressure were your measurements taken? Room temperature - at what temperature and pressure?!?!? ...we talkin' stp, standard temperature and pressure?

Awwww, screw it. I'm gonna' get me a Salter Aquatronic scale and stick with baker's percentages to eliminate this B.S.!
    

[ September 07, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Don't worry Pastachef,

Everything you will ever want to know about Avoirdupoids is in Madeleine Kamman's book «The New Making of a Cook»...


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## pastachef (Nov 19, 1999)

Thanks Kimmie. This particular cook book measures everything in pounds and ounces. But the recipes never seem to work. Especially the cookie recipes. I find myself going to it for large recipes that I can use for general ideas to make new recipes and , but I end up having to change the measurements of a lot of ingredients to make them work.


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## risa (May 11, 2001)

I finally baked some bread using Zaza. Pretty good I think especially since I improvised on bannetons and the couche. I never got around to buying any so I ended up using a colander lined with floured flour sack towels for one boule and just the towel for the other boule. I barely floured the towels enough but no major mishaps. The flour sack towels are too thin I think. I have some more bread fermenting in the fridge and I used thicker linen towels this time. Here are the results of my baking weekend.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Wow Risa,

I'm glad to see nice results from the Cheftalk baking clan! You must be very proud.

Funny thing, your focaccia looks much like mine, especially the grape focaccia...it's all pretty cool.

Don't worry, with time, your starter will mature, therefore the flavour and texture should improve.

 

[ September 10, 2001: Message edited by: Kimmie ]


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Zaza lives! Very nice stuff. I'm trying to think of what could be wrong with anchovy, red pepper and olive focaccia....

...nope, can't think of a thing. Theo is the one thing I simply can't fit in my EasyBake apartment. I would love to though


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

It all looks so good Risa.  Congratulation on your success! Love the composition of your picture with the basket and bread. 


I’m jealous though, I want a Theo too!! He's too cute.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

When the going gets tough, the tough bake bread! I went back into the lab this weekend. The **** with the bastards! Hey Risa, how come the link to your bread doesn't work?


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## risa (May 11, 2001)

NIMDA infected the server that hosts that site and the company that runs the server hasn't fixed it yet. When I go to the home page of e-theo.com, I get the "Welcome to Microsoft Windows NT 4.0 Option Pack" screen. I think that's the IIS screen. Hopefully, they'll kick in the backup soon.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

Yup, the **** with the bastards, lets bake bread for the needy! Nice gesture Kyle.

I really like the loaves risen in an unlined basket. Awesome!


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Yup, that's the page I got. We had to close our fire wall. Don't you wish these geniuses would find something else to do with their time?


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Once again Kyle it looks fantastic. 

I'm sure the firemen enjoyed your bread. Such a nice gesture.


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