# Fujiwara San Denka No Hoto.



## earlybird (Nov 28, 2012)

Hello ppl,

I'm about buying some Fujiwara Denka No Hoto knives from knifewear.com, but before it I'd like to check with you guys if's there other good options in that price range that is CAD$723.00 for a 180mm santoku, and also in that website is there other knifes from other makers that are said to be in the same level as fujiwara such as Takamura Suminagashi, Takeda, Masakage Koishi AS by Kato san and Masakage As-Yet-Un-Named.

If you know fujiwara and maybe the others makers in the website give me you opinion of wich is best or what knife brand ou maker could be a better option.

Thanks.


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## pancake house (Feb 6, 2013)

There really aren't many knives with the prestige of a denka. 

The koishi, (the un-named is essentially the same,) is not quite on the same level as a Takamura or denka, but still good knives.

Are you prepared for the demands of a very high performance knife? 


Given the options: Takamura, but save $ and go with the one without the suminagashi. Half price, Same performance.


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## earlybird (Nov 28, 2012)

Yeah I already have what it takes to maintain the denka knives, but at this purchase I'll look for some new sharpening tools also.

But I'd like to know if theres other good knives at this price outside the website that would be a better option. Thanks pancake house!


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## mhlee (Aug 28, 2013)

I've never used a Fujiwara Denka, but I've seen them and handled them, and, for that price, I would definitely not buy one because of the bad fit and finish of those knives. For $700+ CAD _*for a santoku*_, you're easily in the realm of the following makers:

1. Gesshin Heiji

2. Gesshin Kagekiyo

3. Murray Carter

4. Devin Thomas

I've tried knives of all of the above lines/makers (and own a Kagekiyo and used to own a Carter and Devin Thomas) and these are, in my opinion, superior performing knives. As good as a Fujiwara is supposed to be, I can't imagine that it's that much better than any of the four above.


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## sigma (Mar 26, 2013)

mhlee said:


> I've never used a Fujiwara Denka, but I've seen them and handled them, and, for that price, I would definitely not buy one because of the bad fit and finish of those knives. For $700+ CAD _*for a santoku*_, you're easily in the realm of the following makers:
> 
> 1. Gesshin Heiji
> 
> ...


I've used every one of these knives save a Devin Thomas, and none is close to the Denka as far as grind or steel (sharpening, toughness, retention.) A friend has a Kagekiyo and he loves the way it cuts (it cuts nicely) but the grind is sooooooo uneven. Big holes in the grind near the tip. The Fujiwara is overpriced to me, but the same friend has one and I have used it extensively, and I can say it kicks ass.

These aren't santokus though. These are all 240 gyutos.


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## mhlee (Aug 28, 2013)

sigma said:


> I've used every one of these knives save a Devin Thomas, and none is close to the Denka as far as grind or steel (sharpening, toughness, retention.) A friend has a Kagekiyo and he loves the way it cuts (it cuts nicely) but the grind is sooooooo uneven. Big holes in the grind near the tip. The Fujiwara is overpriced to me, but the same friend has one and I have used it extensively, and I can say it kicks ass.
> 
> These aren't santokus though. These are all 240 gyutos.


Yes, they are all gyutos. However, for example, the Kagekiyo with a kiritsuke tip has a very flat profile that's close to the profile of a santoku. It also has a much more usable tip, in my opinion, than a Santoku.

Speaking of the uneven grind of does the Kagekiyo, can you describe the grind of the knife?


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## sigma (Mar 26, 2013)

I don't need to describe it. I can show you a picture.





  








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I assume I don't need to draw on the pictures to show you the overgrinds. There is a big hole, actually noticeable by touch, just below the shinogi line near the tip on the front edge and another half way between shinogi and edge near the heel on the back. He doesn't care, he likes the knife, but I was surprised.


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## mhlee (Aug 28, 2013)

You're incorrect about the "overgrinds" and "hole." What you are describing as overgrinds or a "hole" is the *concave* grind that Kagekiyo knives have. I've seen several, used two including mine, and they are all like this. That's why they're excellent cutters; they're incredibly thin behind the edge.

Several makers incorporate concave grinds into their knives. Heiji knives are also slightly concave behind the edge. Carter knives are also ground to be concave on certain parts of the blade - the Carter I had was actually concave above the midpoint of the face of the blade toward the spine.


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## jbroida (Nov 13, 2011)

yup... its true.  The gesshin kagekiyo knives are slightly hollow ground from the shinogi to the edge.  This can easily be flattened out over time though, and is not really a big deal to do.


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## sigma (Mar 26, 2013)

It's interesting that the hole is isolated.  One would think a concave grind would be consistent through the grind.  As I said, though, it's not mine, and he likes it fine.  I think it is problematic because it makes it very difficult to put a nice finish on the blade.  You seem happy, and I think that is nice.  You are obviously a good friend to JKI, though I have to say that you do them no favors with your behavior.  You have a way of making Jon look like Mark.


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## mhlee (Aug 28, 2013)

sigma said:


> It's interesting that the hole is isolated. One would think a concave grind would be consistent through the grind. As I said, though, it's not mine, and he likes it fine. I think it is problematic because it makes it very difficult to put a nice finish on the blade. You seem happy, and I think that is nice. You are obviously a good friend to JKI, though I have to say that you do them no favors with your behavior. You have a way of making Jon look like Mark.


Based on your fuzzy pictures, they're not. The first picture has concavity alone the whole portion of that blade. I can't tell by your second picture because it is fuzzy, but what I can tell is that the shinogi line is already messed up. So, whoever sharpened that knife didn't do it any favors. By the way, that "hole" you described does not appear to be the original finish on a Kagekiyo. The owner of that knife likely did something to that area.

You should really get your facts straight before putting your fingers to the computer. You do no favors to the public with your ignorance. As I explained, concave grinds are not unusual. Your assumption that it was a huge overgrind and a whole is probably based on your personal belief that most knives need to have convex grinds.

You have a lot of confidence in your opinion. Unfortunately, your opinion, here, was wrong.

As for your comparison of Jon to Mark, I've bought knives from Mark. If Mark sold great knives and provided great service, I would praise him as well. But, he doesn't. He doesn't sell anything near the quality of Jon and can't service or personally repair anything he sells. Perhaps you should see Jon's store or buy something from Jon before making any assumptions or comparisons of Jon to Mark. By the way, have you bought anything from Jon?


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## sigma (Mar 26, 2013)

I didn't compare Jon to Mark, I said that your constant shilling and defensiveness made Jon look like Mark.  I've never bought anything from him, though I have been in his store and I was treated very well, and I certainly have no interest in denigrating him by saying he is like Mark, with whom I have had trouble.  I was surprised to see the grind as it was, and if I am wrong, then I am wrong.  Tomorrow I will know more about convex grinds, but you will wake up, once again.


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## franzb69 (Jul 9, 2012)

he's from KKF, most folks from there have a dislike/hate for mark richmond.


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## sigma (Mar 26, 2013)

Huh, I have found other people at KKF to be very friendly, but then checking a bit, he doesn't seem very well liked there, either.  

I would suggest to Jon Broida/JKI that having somebody so belligerent and nasty as MHLee closely associating them self with your business can only be bad for your reputation.


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## jbroida (Nov 13, 2011)

i dont think he's associating himself with my business... he's just stating his opinions.  Also, i do my best to make myself available when people have questions or concerns, but i also make a point of not interjecting with my opinion unless its asked for.... i guess what it is is that i try to stay away from shamelessly plugging my stuff in favor of letting my products and services speak for themselves (for both the good and the bad.... i want people to get as unbiased of views as they can).


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## mhlee (Aug 28, 2013)

sigma said:


> Huh, I have found other people at KKF to be very friendly, but then checking a bit, he doesn't seem very well liked there, either.
> 
> I would suggest to Jon Broida/JKI that having somebody so belligerent and nasty as MHLee closely associating them self with your business can only be bad for your reputation.


You seem very angry.


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## mhlee (Aug 28, 2013)

sigma said:


> I didn't compare Jon to Mark, I said that your constant shilling and defensiveness made Jon look like Mark. I've never bought anything from him, though I have been in his store and I was treated very well, and I certainly have no interest in denigrating him by saying he is like Mark, with whom I have had trouble. I was surprised to see the grind as it was, and if I am wrong, then I am wrong. Tomorrow I will know more about convex grinds, but you will wake up, once again.


Don't forget to call me a shill for Murray Carter and Devin Thomas since I like their knives as well.

Oh, I've also had great experiences with Dave Martell of Japanese Knife Sharpening and Maxim of Japanese Natural Stones. I guess that makes me a shill for those two vendors as well.

And, you are a Fujiwara shill.


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