# Tartiflette & Reblochon Cheese



## shel

Hi,

This weekend I'd like to make tartiflette, or some variation. If I cannot find reblochon cheese, what would be a good substitute? Someone suggested Gruyere - but there are many variations of Gruyere. Would a young gruyere be appropriate, or perhaps something older?

shel


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## ma facon

Younger the better:chef: For that recipe.............


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## chefinfrance

Classicaly you should use a Savoyarde cheese to be authentic but any good fondue cheese would be ok. Definatly not a gruyer or emmental these cheeses are too hard and waxy. In France we have a raclette cheese that would be great. As a alternative very thin slices of Brie or Camenbert on top of shredded onions [sauted] bacon and thinly sliced cooked potato with a couple of spoons of creme fraiche on a puff pastry base what a wonderful tartiflette.
steve. masterchefinfrance that would be a .com


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## shel

I was able to get the reblochon, so I'm happy, and I picked up some gruyere for a grilled cheese sandwich later on. I like your idea of a puff pastry base ... out of my league to make such a thing, but a friend might be able to.

thanks!

shel


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## cape chef

For learning purposes only.

Reblochon and Gruyère are not at all alike.

Former is a triple creme,with limited aging. The ladder is a firm, nutty earthy cheese. The only resemblance is that the are both cows milk cheeses.


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## anneke

CC, you challenged me! I can think of one thing they both have in common: Gruyere and Reblochon are both washed rinds. Hence the stink. Though made from full fat milk, Reblochon is not technically recognized as a triple creme as no cream is added to the milk.


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## braaivleis

Hello people.I'm a well-read but totally amateur cook (although my eldest daughter is a professional chef). I don't want to ruffle any feathers, but because I live in a gastronomical desert known as South Africa (ie: we have great indigenous food and produce here, but extremely limited access to the more esoteric ingedients of European and/or American cookery - hominy-what???), I have frequently made tartiflette (the Alsatian and the Haute Savoie varieties) without reblochon, which is simply unavailable here. I've used Brie and/or Camembert and also Swiss-made Gruyere or Emmenthal...and the dish has turned out just fine. That's not my opinion, but that of the unfortunate family guinea pigs required to sample my amateur efforts. Yes - I realise you can't make a "genuine" tartiflette without reblochon - just as you can't make a "genuine" boullabaisse away from the coast around Marseille, or a paella anywhere other than Valencia, or a gumbo outside of Louisiana. No argument. What matters to me, though, is that my guests enjoyed the meal. And if you look at cooking around the world, you'll generally find that creative cooks can take a basic "classic" recipe (cassoulet, for instance), and providing you don't make a mockery of it with second-rate, chucked-together convenience ingredients (I know of at least one well-known British TV "chef" who suggests using canned baked beans to make a Toulousain cassoulet!), you can indeed come up with a satisfying meal that bears at least some decent approximation to the original.


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## braaivleis

And, yes, I realise I don't know how to spell bouillabaisse, but that just goes to prove I really am an amateur


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## kyheirloomer

Not for nothing, Braaivleis, but given the incredible possibilities inherent in sub-Saharan African cuisines, I wouldn't be in a rush to condemn the availability of products. With me, for instance, the shoe is on the other foot----some great African recipes I'd like to try, for which ingredients aren't available.

I did, however, finally find seed for that wonderful white pumpkin you guys grow down there, and I'm anxious to see how it does in my part of the world.


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## boar_d_laze

I realize it was just a toss away line, but, for the record...

You can make paella anywhere. You don't have to be in Valencia. The paella we see in the US called "paella Valenciana," often owes more to Latin America than to Spain.

Mostly what makes a paella a "true" paella is the way the rice is cooked -- which pretty much requires a "true" paella pan, called a paellera and a source of heat large enough for it. You have to cook the rice evenly across a pan large enough to hold it in a very thin layer. Otherwise what you get may be a delicous arroze, but will not be paella.

In Spain, at least during the period when and in those places where I spent a lot of time (_pero, ya pasan muchos anos_), paellas tended to be relatively simple in terms of the sheer number of different ingredients used in a single paella as compared to the "Shang-Hai style," "little bit of everything," so-called _Valenciana_, so common here.

Which takes us back to South African cuisine and monkey gland sauce. Or not.

No vuvuzelas ever!

BDL


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## braaivleis

I fear you've misread me. Mea culpa. I was making a (clearly) feeble attempt at irony/facetiousness...as in - the food snobs (a species I loathe) will tell you, puffed up with their own sense of righteous expertise, that you cannot make this or that here or there or without this or that ingredient. I have failed you: I apologise. Sort of.

I am far less interested in the "authenticity" of any particular dish (Sheesh - I use a lot of quotation marks, don't I?) than I am in whether or not it tastes good and is enjoyed by those to whom it is served. And no - I'm not talking about diverting massively from the original recipe, but would like to suggest that cooks around the world must sometimes make amendements and/or substitutions and/or improvise (think of Cajun cooks in Lousiania) to create any particular dish according to what raw material is at hand. I can't make a Maine lobster roll because we don't have Maine lobsters in South Africa. I can, however, make a crayfish (Cape rock lobster) roll - same recipe, similar but different ingredients. You, on the other hand, cannot make chakalaka relish, or peri peri prawns (Gulf shrimp) or phutu and/or pap with bobotie or crocodile steaks in a marula jus - unless I send you a list of the ingredients (and methods). The deposit of $1 million in my private bank account will ensure swift delivery of same. After which, I'll send you the definite recipe for Boland boerwors and Karro ostrich biltong 

Cheers and thanks for responding to my first post - Dave


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## braaivleis

Give me a contact and I'll send you any South African ingredient you desire. Free of charge. Sent with the desire to make the rest of the world realise what a fabulous and friendly country this is.

Uh - elephant and rhino steaks excluded.

Live crocodiles ditto....

Great White Shark livers as well.

And don't even go near warthog kidneys or hyena trotters..

BTW: we have chillis (chillies?) here that would make Dave de Witt weep.

ABTW: I note with absolute fascination that the chilli sauces/relishes etc I get friends to bring me from their trips to the US always have the seeds removed. In SA, even the bog-standard supermarket chilli sauces are loaded with seeds. Not that we're tougher than you dudes, or anything - just that's the way we've been reared to eat our capsicums.


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## kyheirloomer

Couldn't agree with you more, in general, about substitutions and good taste. But you raise an interesting couple of points. The first being, where do you draw the line between substitutions and authenticity? It's one thing to make a simple sub. But, eventually, you get so far away from the original dish that using the same name is just silly. And, in a few cases, the ingredients have to be exact of you don't have the dish at all.

Related to that: What if you don't know what an ingredient is supposed to taste like? How do you make rational substitutions, and still feel confident you are making the dish you set out to make? If you don't know what the texture and taste of reblochon is, you can't begin to make substitutions and even stay within the spirit of tartiflette.

Nothing earth shaking about these observations. But for some people they could be important. You can be concerned with authenticity without being a snob, ya know.

On your other comment, one thing to consider is that many of the hot sauces and chili condiments made here start out as fermented pulp, rather than as whole chilies. So that contributes to the syndrome you've noticed.

The presence or absence of seeds, btw, has nothing to do with how tough you are. Not if you mean heat content. There is no capsaicin in the seeds. About 90% of it is found in the placenta (that is, the ribs), and the rest in the flesh. Seed presence can have an affect on the texture of the sauce, but not its pungency.

Aha, you say, I just tasted some seeds and there was distinct heat. That may be so. But when it happens its because the little balloons holding the capsaicin leak, and some of it gets on the surface of the seeds. But there is none actually integral to them.


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## braaivleis

Was it Elizabeth David, or Len Deighton or Keith Floyd (apologies - they're all English) who once said - and forgive the paraphrase - you can concoct, say, a cassoluet, a pot au feu, a cocido Madrileno, a feijoada completa, a gumbo - whatever - with whatever similar ingredients you have to hand - just don't call it a cassoulet, pot au feu, cocido Madrileno, feijoada completa, gumbo, whatever. Sort of sums it up - and reinforces entirely what you say.

Not that I'm giving in re the chillis, capsaicins whathaveyou - I'll get back to you on that. Just that it's late night in the Southern Hemisphere now and I still have a pot of Habanero. Bird's Eye, Scotch Bonnet, Datil custard on the stove for my grandson's breakfast muesli.

Cheers and thanks for talking to me.

(Coming soon to an inbox near you - a genuine Kaapenaar recipe for smoorsnoek...followed by an equally genuine recipe for skilpaadjies from the Klein Karoo). 

Kentucky, huh? I've been to Texas, New York, Arkansas, Southern & Northern California. Kentucky and the New England states are definitely on my gotta-go list.

Well - don't just sit there - send me a recipe for mint julep.

And, no - we don't got no branch water in South Africa


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## kyheirloomer

_......Habanero. Bird's Eye, Scotch Bonnet, Datil custard on the stove for my grandson's breakfast muesli._

Thought you were raising him up to appreciate spicy foods? Won't get nowhere serving that whoosie porridge. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/tongue.gif

Shoa 'nough you got branches down theah.

A branch is merely a small stream. There are no hard and fast rules, but, generally speaking, when a stream first splits they're called forks. When a fork splits it's a branch---or, in some places, a run. So you could have something like the Wolfe Branch of the North Fork, of Wanderlust Creek.

What makes Kentucky branch water special is that it's naturally filtered through limestone---the same pure, filtered water used to make bourbon in the first place.

Do you really want to make mint juleps? Kind of a waste of good sippin' whisky, if you ask me. But here ya go.

To be genuine, you want to use a silver julep cup, cuz the frosting on the outside is an integral part of the tradition. I don't imagine they're readily available in J-burg, so any glass will do.

Make some simple syrup, using one part each of water and sugar. Put 2-3 tablespoons of the cooled syrup in the bottom of the cup, along with, oh, half-dozen mint leaves. Muddle the syrup and leaves until the leaves are bruised and releasing their oils. Fill the cup halfway with crushed ice. Pour in two ounces of good bourbon (which, in some circles, is a redundent phrase). Stir the mixture until condensation coats the outside of the cup. Garnish, if you want, with additional mint leaves.

Ideally you'll drink this through a straw that's cut about an inch longer than the cup or glass you are using. This forces you to appreciate the aroma of the mint/bourbon mixture, cuz your nose is all but forced into the cup as you drink.

In the best of all possible worlds, a julep would taste as good as it smells. In the real world it doesn't. Don't say you weren't warned.


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## braaivleis

Here in the great, grand and glorious Republic of South Africa (Sort of like the Great State of Louisiana - only a little, uh, no - a lot less sophisticated),  we like to think of the vuvuzela as a tangible expression of the joyous bonhomie and exuberance of our fairly-recently-democratic Rainbow Nation.

The rest of the world regards the vuvuzela as the deafeningly cacophonous instrument of the Devil; a loud, ear-splitting instrument designed to drive mad the inhabitants of more civilised nations.

The rest of the world is right - and we are wrong.

But we aint gonna apologise and the vuvuzela aint gonna go away.

As for monkey gland sauce...when last did you eat at Denny's


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## braaivleis

You, sah, are a scholar and a gentleman. I thank you for the recipe and the sidebar observations. However - good Bourbon would be what?? I have a really interesting home bar/pub filled with artefacts and items collected from my travels around the world. Among the bottles in the pub are some interesting bottlings by Jack Daniels (Gentleman Jack, Single Barrel etc etc), Jim Beam (Black et al), Mr Buffalo Trace, Knob Creek, Wild Turkey Rare Breed and many others (can't seem to find a bottle labelled Booker Noe) - but for me - the best American whiskey I ever tasted is a drink called Woodford Reserve Distiller's Select. Nectar. And as about as likely to appear in my soon-to-be-fashioned mint julep as a one-legged man has a chance of winning a butt-kicking contest. I realise the aforementioned beverages are commonplace to you, but to us here in the bourbon boondocks, they're the best we can get. Which is why I reiterate my refrain - while I believe this country has some astonishingly good produce and wines as good as you will ever find in the Napa or Sonoma Valleys - we still fall way short in terms of the wonderful variety of world food and drink that greets you every time you walk into a market, shop, grocer or drink store (we call them "bottle stores.").

Thanks again for the julep recipe.


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## kyheirloomer

Interesting that you call it American Whiskey. I thought only the French did that.

Woodford Reserve is my favorite, so you're not as bourbon poor as you may think. It's made in the oldest operating distillery in Kentucky, and uses pot stills, the way single malt Scotch is made. If you ever do make it here I'll take you on the tour, it's kind of fascinating. Maker's Mark's tour is another great one. Buffalo Trace has the smallest bonded warehouse in the world (it only holds one barrel).

Boar-d-Laze and I recently had a discussion about this. He prefers Elijah Craig---one of the Heaven Hill brands. But, hey, he's a Californian. What do they know?/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

Legally, to be called bourbon, the mash must be made from at least 51% corn, and be aged in charred white oak barrels. You'll notice, when you get a chance to take a look, that your Jack Black specifically does not say bourbon for one of those reasons. They call it Tennessee Sippin' Whisky.

If you;re bound and determined to to make a julep, I'd use one of the less premium brands: Wild Turkey, Jim Beam, Buffalo Trace, or even the Knob Creek.


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## kyheirloomer

And, btw, most of the really good bourbon, the 25 year and older stuff, goes to Japan. They're the only ones who can afford it.

_we still fall way short in terms of the wonderful variety of world food and drink that greets you every time you walk into a market, shop, grocer or drink store (we call them "bottle stores.")._

I understand your point. But don't make assumptions. If it weren't for mail order, I wouldn't have most of the largess available either. Locally, forget about it.


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## boar_d_laze

You got me wrong brother.

I _mentioned_ Elijah Craig because it's a lot of age for the money, and yes it is darn good. But my taste runs more to whiskeys with a more straightforward character. I mostly drink Wooford, Bulleit and sometimes Turkey. Of the non-Bourbons, I prefer Dickel to JD.

BDL


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## joeymaree

I love your posts....they make me laugh and now I am hungary as well. xo


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## zoebisch

Stichelton or Stilton?

My path to this understanding evolved through brewing. Striving for authenticity should not be confused with authenticity. There are only ever (and usually you can trace that to _one_) true original inspirations and/or developments that occur along the way and those being rather unique take ownership and rightly so. Most of the time you can reduce these things to fundamental ingredients and techniques and I feel as long as you are careful to clearly convey the distinction it should be ok. Where the danger lies is in the _reinvention of the original definition_ which is what preservationists fear the most and from the standpoint of historical context I agree.

A close friend of mine recently brewed a Czech Pilsner, more specifically a replica of the original: Pilsner Urquell. He did so well in fact that that he won a regional competition sponsored by the brewery and was flown to said brewery where he and his wife were treated to all the Czech food and all the PU they could drink, along with lengthy brain-picking sessions with the brewmaster. He used the Czech malt and the PU yeast strain and was able to translate the style into his own representation. What I won't tell you is what he used in the beer that _wasn't _in the original. He _understood_ the beer and was able to reproduce it closely enough so that the representatives and judges from PU voted his to be the best regional representation of PU. Would he say that he brewed Pilsner Urquell? Never. But he will boldly and rightly tell you that he has very much mastered the _Czech Pilsner flavor._ He knows how to coax that flavor from the grain now. It's through mastery of the technique and availability of the ingredients that one can offer the artistic representation of a specific dish. In the end what matters is that it is an enjoyable experience. As long as the name isn't a regionally owned name/etc...who cares? However, I am always the first to include the word "style" when there is a substitution or other element that makes it impossible. And who knows, sometimes we might just feel the substitution is better than the original (and even that is often a moving target).

I prefer Stichelton (most times  ).


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## zoebisch

I am going to be dreaming of Reblochon now....


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## margcata

@ Zoebisch & Shel,

Reblocher in French is Reblochon De Savoie Cow Cheese in English.

This cheese comes from the Designation of Origin Savoie or Savoy and has been produced since the XIII century in this Alpine zone of France on the Swiss frontier.

www.fromages.com Is an English and French website which provides information on where to purchase worldwide all French cheeses.

Another suggestion is to contact: www.agriculture.gouv.fr ( This website was created by the French Government and provides information in English and French on all their products and how to obtain them )

www.cirval.asso.fr ( another website on French cheeses )

Have nice wkend.

Margaux Cintrano

( Margcata )


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## zoebisch

Thx for the links Margcata, I am very tempted to fill an order.     I remember when I was first introduced to Reblochon years ago, my brother had hooked up with a very good specialty foods importer in Queens NY called dechoix...I'll never forget visiting their cheese storage room.  It was crazy, everything from huge wheels of Swiss to tiny little shriveled up goat 'coins' that were so very barnyard.  We brought back that day among other things some Reblochon (a pasteurized version because of our overkill laws) and since then I think I have been very partial to washed rind cheeses.  The b. linens and that reddish color it produces on the rind is like a magnet for me.  Anything in that method is pretty much my hands-down favorite...like a nice oozy Limburger....mmmm...That company doesn't fill small orders, so finding a good place is always welcome.


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## zoebisch

www.fromagges.com isn't working 

A, I see.... www.fromages.com


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## colombochute

> Reblocher in French is Reblochon De Savoie Cow Cheese in English.


Reblocher is not the name of the cheese in French!

It is just the verb describing the action of milking the cow a second time, a technique used for the making of Reblochon (hence, the name of the cheese), and which gives a creamier milk.

Reblochon is called Reblochon whether in French or English, no need to complicate things...


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## colombochute

margcata said:


> Another suggestion is to contact: www.agriculture.gouv.fr ( This website was created by the French Government and provides information in English and French on all their products and how to obtain them )


This is the site of the Ministry of Agriculture... Not sure they will answer this kind of questions...


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## kskate

I have been looking for an answer to this question for some time. I cannot obtain Reblochon in regional Western Australia.

Any suggestions out there for a good substitute for tartiflette?

Kate


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## french fries

When I can't find Reblochon (or when I don't feel like spending $40 for one here in the U.S.) I use old brie. The older the better.


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## genemachine

There is also a variation of tartiflette with Munster cheese and a copious amount of white wine - seen it in Alsace and in Baden-Würtemberg.


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## french fries

This triple-cream brie from California should work great for tonight's tartiflette: notice the color of the rind (and, if you were here, the strong aroma throughout the kitchen):





  








brie.JPG




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french fries


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Mar 26, 2014


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