# What Dumbing Down??? (long post)



## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

There has been lots of discussion about the so-called dumbing down of cookery. 

To a certain extent, there is, indeed, the appearance of such degradation. Mostly it appears in three areas: 

The misuse of terms and techniques. My personal bug-a-boo in this regard is recipes or celebrity chefs who instruct that you "saute' in a little water (or wine, juice, or other liquid). Bzzt! Wrong! Thanks for playing! Like most cooking terms, "saute" has a precise meaning, and it isn't the same as steaming. 

The instructional minutia that appears in printed recipes, i.e., "in a small pot over medium high heat……" Experienced cooks shudder at some of those over directions. And it's true, they can be misleading to the tyro. 

The overuse, particularly on the part of some celebrity chefs, on pre-packaged and convenience products. Sandra Lee and Rachel Ray being the most visible, but there are numerous others.
There is a fourth area, which I won't go into, which is the snobby concept that anyone not fully versed in classic French cooking is a kitchen illiterate. 

From all of this it's easy for foodies to conclude that there's been, overall, a dumbing down of cooking and food preparation. I maintain just the opposite. That these are signs of a wising up. 

Here in the U.S., there have been two full generations that were raised without learning to cook at their mothers' knees. Starting with the big push to convenience and ready-made food products in the 1950s, it grow to the point where the typical housewife confused "cooking" with "popping a commercial product in the microwave." 

But starting in the 1990s, and continuing at an accelerated rate, we've been seeing a reaction to that. The pendulum has swung the other way. Americans in ever growing numbers have turned back to cooking from scratch (or almost from scratch), using fresh, wholesome ingredients. And they've been discovering a wide world of tastes and flavors never dreamed of. 

Some of this comes from exposure in restaurants. And much of it can be laid at the feet of those celebrity chefs. And to fancier food prep in women's magazines. And to the abundance of cooking classes offered just about everywhere. 

The problem is this: When neither your mother nor your grandmother cooked, and you have no geshtalt, how do you indulge this new-found interest in the kitchen arts? The ways girls have been raised they literally haven't a clue where to start. Thus, it's up to cookery communicators to reach down to them; to show them the way. 

Yes, this means taking baby steps. It means broadening out the definition of terms. It means providing minute details in recipes. It means using English instead of French.

For more experienced cooks, it looks like dumbing down; like catering to the least common denominator. 

I say it's actually a smartening up. 

Take Sandra Lee, my least favorite cooking personality. It's easy to sneer at what she does, particularly those things which, to us, are self evident. But to somebody who's been raised with no cookery background, the idea that you can use store-bought stuff to create a whole new dish is an eye-opener. Sure, some, perhaps most, who see that will never go any further. But a certain proportion of them will go on to preparing food from scratch. And experiment with presentation. And, who knows, maybe grow up to be a TV chef. 

I have some expertise in the foodways of the 18th century. And, more than once, I have presented recipes (actually receipts) from those days to modern chefs and watched as they scratched their heads wondering what some of those ingredients were, the quantities they were supposed to use, how they were supposed to proceed, and what cooking techniques were involved. Recipes from the 1700s contain none of that information. 

Should we therefore conclude that chefs who use modern recipes represent a dumbing down? Of course not. Why, then, do we not extend the same courtesy to home cooks? The parallel is exact.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

I think it happened earlier than that. A few years ago, I was interested in learning more about Southern Cooking. This is when I first read Paula Dean's books and was appalled at the recipes. So I started digging around thinking like you that it would be just before the start of commercialized food that the decline began. Well commercialized food began earlier than we tend to commonly assume.

Here's the nexus of that journey:

http://www.cheftalk.com/forums/cook-...endations.html

I recently re-read Damon Fowler's book _Classical Southern Cooking: A celebration of the Cuisine of the Old South_ and a bunch of his newer material that wasn't in our library system those few years ago. Very much worth reading.

I think he's right. Convenience cooking got its mainstream start in the late 1800s and early 1900s. A military initiative in France in 1809 led to glass bottling of food. Which wasn't really transportable and canned food followed fairly soon after.

It was mostly a military/expeditionary item for decades to come. The Civil War introduced canned food to many soldiers. Slightly before the War, canned milk was finally perfected. It took a lot of sugar to keep it stable in the canned state and that was the beginning of sweetened condensed milk.

By the late 1860s, this milk was a major commercial product. And many new recipes were possible because of it.

And killed off many recipes and cooking skills too.

Last year at the library, I stumbled on a scholarly reprint from the Civil War. _Confederate Housewife: Receipts and Remedies, together with Sundry Suggestions for Garden, Farm and Plantation_ It's an illuminating read. They made bullion powder at home for convenience and travel.

The rise of the canned complete meal came in WWI. Canned Spaghetti Bolognese, Ravioli in tomato sauce, Coq a Vin were products canned for Italian and French soldiers.

Lots of our modern cooking notions aren't as modern as we think.

Phil


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## allie (Jul 21, 2006)

When I first joined here, and even to an extent now, due to the opinions stated on the "dumbing down" aspect, many times I have been very hesitant to post anything. I still am not always comfortable posting even when I feel I have a contributing opinion. Unlike a lot of my 30-something peers, I did grow up in a home with a stay at home mom who cooked meals daily for our family. Lots of things she made completely from scratch but she also relied on some store-bought products. Mayonnaise, puddings and whipped topping for desserts, chicken stock (from the can), cake mixes, and other items for recipes like I see on Paula Dean's shows. I guess to a degree you could say a lot of the food I ate was semi-homemade. My grandmother who is 94 and still cooking also uses some store-bought products in her cooking. I learned the basics from them and have gone on to develop new methods and recipes from watching cooking shows, reading recipes online and in multitudes of cookbooks, as well as tasting foods and re-inventing them. I love cooking but I don't always have the extra money to get really fancy and cook "gourmet" meals. I live in a more rural area of Indiana (about 45 minutes from Fort Wayne) and lots of ingredients I see on TV and in recipes are impossible to even find in the stores around here. Because I either don't have the money, can't find the product, or use something out of a can, I feel that people will not respect the way the I cook as actually cooking. I rarely ever use any frozen entres or things like that. I buy fresh meats, some fresh produce (depends on season and prices), lots of frozen veggies, fresh potatoes, rice, etc. From those I create meals that are appealing to my family and fun for me to cook. Yes, I do use cake mix but I can make a cake from scratch. I do buy some breads but I can make my own. I do buy chicken stock, simply because with the small amount that I use (maybe 2-3 times a year) and lack of freezer storage space, I don't feel the need to make a batch of my own. the foods are flavored with other ingredients so the stock is just an addition anyway, not much different from water really. I use beef bouillon cubes to make broth for gravies and in a few other beef dishes I make. 

Anyway, my whole point is that I cook in a way that it seems lots of people think is dumbed down. Rarely do I follow an exact recipe so a lot of times the extra information is wasted on me. I joined here to learn more and grow in my cooking experiences. Lots of times, the questions asked are a bit over my head or I don't know the science behind explaining how to make something turn out in a certain way. I am hesitant to ask questions of my own for fear of appearing that I don't know anything or much at all about cooking, my favorite activity in my home.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

"They made bullion powder at home for convenience and travel."

Actually, "they" made it a lot earlier than the American War of Northern Aggression, Phil.

As early as the mid-18th century there were published directions for making it. They called it, variously, "glue soup" and "traveler's soup" and probably a half dozen other names. 

We can safely assume that anything of that nature was fairly common at least 25 years before it was published. 

FWIW, "advances" in food preservation and storage almost always come from military necessity. About the only major exception was freezing, which, right from the start, was a commercially-oriented process. 

Canning, as we know it, resulted from Nepoleon offering a cash prize for anyone who could come up with a way of preserving food for the army. As he pointied out, an army travels on its stomach. Nearly 200 years later, the same requirement led to MREs. 

While you're point about convenience foods is valid, it don't think your contention is quite on the money. Although there have been convenience foods for at least a couple of centuries, they did not change the basic nature of the kitchen arts until post WWII. My Mom used convenience products all through the '50s. But my sister grew up knowing how to cook. Her daughter (my niece) did not. 

Then there are those like Friend Wife who was raised to believe that the only thing a lady makes for dinner is reservations.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Allie, I can understand why you feel that way. But, FWIW, I, for one, regret the attitude that produces that reaction. 

I also believe you probably have more to contribute than you think; and that a lot of people would enjoy hearing more from you on appropriate posts.


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## allie (Jul 21, 2006)

Thank you! I will admit that the longer I am here, the more comfortable I am getting with posting. The what's for dinner thread has really helped me to open up and I am still warmed with the positive responses I received there.


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## jock (Dec 4, 2001)

I agree with KYHeirloomer's first post that what for those of us (professional or not) who have some more advanced kitchen experience the recipes, methods and presentation of information may appear to be a dumbing down. I watch certain of the PBS cooking shows (I don't have cable) for a) inspiration and b) to pick up the odd gem of information to add to my collection. There is a whole audience out there which does not know and the very fact that they are willing to make some effort is a positive thing; even if they don't have the passion that some of us have. (I think I may take mild exception to the reference to girls, mothers and grandmothers. What about us guys?)

I also agree with KYHeirloomer that Allie shouldn't be intimidated and should post with gusto. Allie, there may be some out there who know more than you but what you know and can share is every bit as valuable as the next person's opinion.

Jock


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

I have a reprint of a Williamsburg (VA) cookbook that calls this "pocket soup".

I was extremely lucky to have a mom and a grandmother who both knew their ways around the kitchen. Both of them baked bread, made soups from scratch, took advantage of seasonal fruits and veggies, canned (pickles, mostly) and passed their skills on with a strong flavoring of our culture and traditions. Two of my three brothers can cook (one is a chef-owner of a successful restaurant). My mom was occasionally sidetracked by the jello/gelatin/processed foods horrors of the 1950s and 1960s, but after a few belly laughs from her audience (her family), gave it up and went back to good, scratch cooking. My mom got the Sunday New York Times (delivered to our Illinois town on Tuesdays) partly so she could read Craig Claiborne's recipes; she made a good many of them, too. We ate Greek food she learned to make from Greek friends and neighbors, then worked those dishes as well as Chinese, Italian and French into her repertoire.

I learned my instincts for flavor combinations and for elemental things like "this is done now" or "this needs more cumin" from Mom. I know how lucky I am.

As for "dumbing down", I agree that things are looking up. When I was teaching in a middle school (until I retired in '05) some kids were getting interested in moving beyond nuked burritos and boxed mac and cheese. I worked food into a lot of my teaching units (I had small classes of struggling readers). We made quesadillas and pot stickers in class. I brought guava jelly, nopalitos, churros, sushi, smoked oysters and my own homemade noodle kugel, and a ton of other stuff (at my own expense) for them to try, as the foods were part of the books they were reading. Hmong kids brought dishes from their culture for us to try. Even after the students were gone from my class they'd come to see me and tell me about something new they'd tried, and how their parents were grossed out or proud or whatever.

When I came here I kept my nose down too, Allie. I learned quickly that the greatest thing about Chef Talk is that you can share what you know and ask what you don't know, and your knowledge and curiosity will be respected by others. Although I thought I was a pretty good cook when I came here (and I did get affirmation for what I did know), I've learned *so* much more by reading the content here, participating in the forums, and meeting some of Chef Talk members.


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

Great thread.

Good cooking has got to begin in the home, or if that's not possible,at school. Whatever happen to cooking classes in school? So much of what we learn when we are young stays with us the longest - lets involve children more in the process.

My children are lucky enough to have catering classes as an option at their high school - and both my girl and boy are totally enjoying them. They bring home some wicked creations 

I try and involve them wherever I can in home cooking - they're a great help, even if its just prepping veg, or cooking a whole dinner. You get some odd combinations at times but its all learning and experimentation - what better way to learn? (And they do their own washing up - heaven!)

*Old recipes/cookbooks* - they are a great read. Not necessarily overflowing with the quantities you have to use, but that makes it more fun trying to make an educated guess and get it to suit you. I came across an old Australian cook book, written early in the 19th century. Teaches you how to make billy tea; skin, gut and cook a wallaby; how to store an oversupply of fresh killed meat in the ground (away from flies and to keep it cool etc); how to corn meat; how to pickle almost everything under the sun; all sorts of lovely things. Even more recent books like some of Elizabeth David's don't give quantities or full explanations in some recipes e.g. "Roast a saddle of mutton in the usual way". Love 'em.

*Cooking shows* - seem to have increased exponentially in the last 10 years - its got to be encouring people to try cooking themselves. It has me. You just have to find the ones that suit you and your sensibilities.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

>Good cooking has got to begin in the home, or if that's not possible,at school.<

That would certainly be the ideal, DC. But the base question is, what happens when that doesn't happen? We can't just write-off the two generations of people who didn't get instructed at home. 

There are, thankfully, numerous venues besides the home and school were the currently cooking-illiterate can learn. There are cooking classes, and the internet, and books, videos, and magazines. And the old lady next door. 

My contention is that all these venues reflect a pendulum swing. Other than the lady next door, they wouldn't exist unless there was an audience for them. Rather than a dumbing down we're seeing a reawakening. 

The sad part is that people who are just discovering the joys of the kitchen are often loathe to ask questions because they fear ridicule and embarassment. An example:

On another list, somebody posed a question about cooking roasts for a crowd. Apparently, she needed a ten pound roast and could only find smaller ones. Her question was: Do I cook two 5-pounders for the same amount of time as one 10-pounder. 

There are two ways of reacting to her question. There are those who would respond: "that dumb broad. How could she not know something that obvious." Unfortunatley, many of them don't hesitate to express such thoughts. Not only is that just plain rude, it discourages her and others from asking questions or posting opinions. 

On the other hand, I see it as a person who comes from a tradition of thawing trying to learn real cooking. She didn't know, and was willing to learn if somebody would teach her. That's a smartening up, not a dumbing down.

Indeed, any dumb, IMO, comes from the so-called sophisticates who belittle somebody who knows less than they do.


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## rsteve (May 3, 2007)

Regretfully, your contention is more wishful thinking than a statistically supported fact. I would love to believe that women and men were casting aside their dependence on high calorie, low nutrition, prepared foods for themselves and their families, but it simply isn't true. The processed food industry in the United States is growing at a geometric rate. The number of meals consumed in restaurants versus those consumed at home is ever increasing at an alarming rate. The number of Americans who are morbidly obese, as a result of constantly eating high calorie low nutrition foods, is growing at a rate that is causing medical insurance rates to skyrocket.

What you and I are witnessing is a renaissance in the hobbyist cook, combined with the growth of the organic and natural foods movement. While these numbers may appear significant, in truth, they are but a speck of the population at large in the U.S. It's sad, but true. We become deluded into thinking that the "pendulum has swung" because of Food Network, cooking programs on PBS, a plethora of food magazines, etc. This is a product of audience demographic segmentation and optimal advertising buys. If you are Sears and want to sell your top end kitchen appliances, where do you look for your best demographic audience advertising buy?

I respect your right to differ on each and every point, but the reality is the Nielsen numbers for the Cartoon Network overwhelm those of the Food Network. 

When I venture into a local upscale supermarket, I am encouraged by what I see in the meat and seafood counters. From stuffed chickenbreasts to salmon roullade, there are freshly prepped entrees ready to be cooked at home. But, truthfully, and this is just a cursory observation, those who buy these items are economically advantaged. The average shopper has a cart filled with frozen precooked fried chicken, TV dinners, and frozen pizza.

Might I suggest that anyone who suggests that the American home is returning to a time when fresh healthy food was prepared from scratch as the norm for daily caloric needs, examine the growing food industry numbers from the fast food industry. There's a reason that you can't drive a mile in any metro area without finding at least one McDonalds, Burger King, KFC, Pizza Hut, and Arby's.

Again...I don't doubt that there is an active movement among "foodies" that makes it appear that KYHeirloomer's purported pendulum is swinging, but food industry statistics make it very clear that healthy creative home cooking is largely among a very small minority of the American population.

Sincerely, I wish it were not so.


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## deltadoc (Aug 15, 2004)

I was flipping through the digital broadcast TV stations the other night, and on PBS 2, they had some cooking type show that I'd never seen before. This guy was visiting this supposedly famous restaurant. Fat Duck maybe it was, but don't quote me on that. I'm getting older and sometimes I get shows confused.

The point though was that this super chef was showing his secret for making this soup or something in a pot.

What was the secret? Polysorbate!!! ???? He was like pouring tons of it into this pot and extolling its virtues.

I couldn't believe that. I mean isn't polysorbate some sort of commercial food additive that "smooths" things out or something?

And this Michelin type restaurant's secret was using mass quantities to create this soup or whatever it was.

Amazing!

doc


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## cookie jim (Apr 24, 2007)

Hi ali;I couldn't leave this thred without saying that when I scroll through the threads and see your name I click it on reguardless if I'm intersted in the subject.You see I'm relativly knew to the forum and I kind of think of you,KHY,shel,mezz and others as a kind of family.I try to share a little as well as learn more from you all.I hope to see lots more post from you. Well I know you get it from all the post I read with positive heart-felt incouragement...good cookin...cookie


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Today is opening day for one of the growers markets in STL....there will probably be 1200 people go through the market in 4 hours. There are 133 neighborhood gardens run by a non-profit (at last count a couple of years ago), cooking schools are popping up, cooking supplies are in most stores....
dumbing down....I've felt there has been a dumbing down in society for a while, pretty much across the board. 
Any cooking is good. Better yet is having a flavor palate memory so that you KNOW what can be....if a kid never tastes a ripe drip down your arm peach he will not know what he's missing when the farm is bought for housing tracts.

Allie, I've been active on this site for many years.....cheftalkers are amazing people. No question is dumb if sincere.....one of the great things about this site is that there is little flaming, there's a respect I've not found in too many other places. 

Now off to find asparagus, hopefully a few strawberries that made it through the freeze, spinach, kale, swiss chard, orange yolk eggs......maybe a baguette.....Now this is the way to spend Sat. morning.


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

Thank you, Cookie Jim! We're glad you feel comfortable here and are settling into our online community life.


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## free rider (May 23, 2006)

My pet peeve in the dumbing down of cooking skills... Sysco.

I'm one of the stats of people growing up not knowing how to cook, but learning later on because of being sick of processed, filler-filled, commercially prepared junk.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

there are changes happening.....USDA monies are being allocated for pilot programs, schools are changing over....removing soda machines, adding healthier alternatives. The more recent fast food shops in STL are Asian....more Japanese sushi/miso/salads/noodles.....I'm seeing lighter less fried at the new places.

Farmers' markets have grown exponentially in the past 5 years......organic is booming across the US, it has a double digit growth for the past 7-8 years.

Cooking demos, events with food venders/stages.....all have increased.

KY, you of all people could speak about the dirth of seed companies....many had gone assunder a few years ago. There has been movement to bring back more heirloom seeds....more chefs requesting fun produce actually meats too. 
Bill Heffernin (Mizzou) did research on our food system that followed foods back to parent companies...90+ of prepared food comes from 3 companies. Scary shtuff. 3 companies are in charge of a huge percentage of our food supply.

Dumbing down.....I've not had a television for 8 years, it was detracting rather than adding quality, whereas computersites can provide more interaction and value.  such as this thread.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

In February of 2009, my one TV turns into a pumpkin. At this time I have no plans to go HD or get a converter box. The value isn't there. I don't do cable or satellite so I have no legacy options there either. It will just be a monitor for the movies I own. 

Lots of terrible technologies still hashing it out in the HD arena, mainly the crippling stupidity of HDCP, especially as it applies to computers.

Phil


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

>90+ of prepared food comes from 3 companies. Scary shtuff. 3 companies are in charge of a huge percentage of our food supply.<

Actually, go back one more step, and it's actually one company that controls the food supply in the U.S., and it's working hard to make that global.

>KY, you of all people could speak about the dirth of seed companies<

I'm not sure how valid this contention is. Sure, there's been a lot of conglomerating. And a number of seed houses have closed their doors. But, by the same token, there's been a lot of start-ups too, particularly internet-only seed companies. To my knowledge, nobody has done a count of them. Among traditional mail-order companies, there are 254 seed houses offering open pollinated and heirloom varieties.

There's also been a growth in mail-order plant companies. That is, folks who sell seedlings ready for transplanting, instead of seeds.

So, without being able to document it, I would feel comfortable claiming that there's been a net gain in suppliers---particularly of open pollinated and heirloom varieties.

>actually meats too. <

Here, again, I don't know how valid the claim. I know lots of chefs talk about this. But are they actually buying? I have a friend in Michigan who raises grass-fed, antibiotic-free beef, and can't sell it. And it's not a money thing. Her beef averages $1.65/lb live weight, which works out at something like three bucks or a little more hanging weight.

My gut feeling is that the demand for old-fashioned meats is almost 100% driven by upscale chefs, and mostly applies to poultry and game.

However, what is on the increase is the number of people raiseing heirloom livestock.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

>Lots of terrible technologies still hashing it out in the HD arena, mainly the crippling stupidity of HDCP, especially as it applies to computers.<

Huh? boy I feel techie ignorant....accronyms aren't computing HD, HDCP,.....but the jist I'm picking up is that you feel the same way, can't figure out why your waiting 2 years.


My seed company info is several years old actually 2000ish when the Seed Saver guy spoke at an MOA, Missouri Organic Association meeting about open pollinators. Dr. Mary Hendrickson spoke of seed companies being bought by Monsanto.....again several years ago. Good to know the numbers are up.

one company huh, boy that's reassuring....wonder if the CEO is into good food.

As to meats.....the demand for whole pigs, chickens, lambs are growing....most grassfed cattle guys have them sold at an early age or sell at markets. Good beef is difficult to access in any regular quantity.
I've got a pig coming in Wed. and have sold the hams, ribs, both loins, a shoulder that I'm not sure I wanna part with, some liver for brunsweiger and the feet. Leaf lard , some offal and a shoulder are left for me...and the belly/head.....I may have to buy another pig soon just for some personal consumption.....piece meal out the pieces I don't want.

There are foodies that pick up info from chefs who pick up/share info with farmers.......general public looks to the foodies/chefs for info on what's good to eat. That is the impetus for starting a chef run grower's market with cooking demos every week. Varieties became a theme song......locally grown, heirloom were catch phrases.....now some of us are delving more into heirloom meats. Berkshire, Red Wattle, Ossabow, Duroq, Tammworth....all pig names that are gaining some recognition amoungst our chefs that enjoy using whole animals. the 250# live weight piggie I'm getting Wed. is a mix of 5 breeds, that came in second in the heirloom tasting I hosted the end of last Oct. Price point and availability made it more desirable than the others.


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## allie (Jul 21, 2006)

Thank you Cookie for the response. 

I really hope no one feels I was complaining. I guess I have just felt intimidated because I am strictly a home cook and when it comes to different ethnic foods and more gourmet, I am lost! I want to learn but feel stupid at times to ask questions or comment. I see terms here that I've never heard in my life. In fact, it was here that I first heard of foie gras! I've never had it but at least now after seeing it here and googling, I know what it is. That is why I joined. I want to learn and be the best cook whether at home or elsewhere that I can be. I've had a job offer recently based on a friend who's eaten some of my home cooking. It didn't work out because I wasn't available on the weekends due to my kids. One day I'd love to either work for someone else or have my own small place cooking the foods I love. That is one thing I think I do well and love to share with others. Thanks to all of you, I think I will continue to improve both my techniques as well as branch out into new and different! 

I'll try to post more often and ask more questions. The whole feel of the site seems to have changed in the past 6 months and is more welcoming to people like me. I'm sure some of the older members have noticed that I post more now than I did before and it's because the whole feel seems to have changed. That's a great thing!


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

Allie
I, too, am a home cook. I have taken lots of cooking classes, but I only cook for family and friends nowadays. Don't be intimidated, your views are as relevant as anyone else's on here!


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## deltadoc (Aug 15, 2004)

We just re-watched Soylent Green last night. Soylent controls 1/2 of the world's food supply.

Your post is very scary. So was the movie. "Before you know it they'll be raising us like cattle to make food for the rest of the world"....

doc

PS: Remember Tuesday is Soylent Green day!


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

I'm curious to know what the three companies are and what one company controls the food supply in the US. Care to share?

Shel


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

"Who has the seed controls the feed," as my friend Jeanne Lane says. 

Directy or indirectly, commercial agriculture in this country is controlled (via seed, chemical, and legal clout) by just one company and its subsidiaries & so-called trading partners.

I'll leave exactly who that is as an exersize for the student, Shell. But, just to give you a hint, the company name starts with M. And ends with "onsanto."


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

the green is worth fighting over. :smoking:


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

Could another one begin with "A" and end with "rcher Daniels Midland"?


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

I suspected that's what you'd say. Unfortunately, their reach has extended beyond our borders. 

Shel


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

Between the two we're in deep trouble ...


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Now imagine living in STL, home of Monsanto......now imagine living in STL with WashU, Monsanto and Mo Botanical Gardens trifecta, that joined forces a few years ago and SHOCKED St. Louisians.
Or how about Danfield......yellow rice feeding the world......
How about community grant monies and the neighborhood gardens being funded by....ta da....Monsanto.....
I've held my ground for years and not taken nor worked with consoriums that were flush with cash from the exploitation of farmers....many times friends have said to take the money and do good.....nope.

Monsanto funds research at our land grant college ag school....mizzou. funny how organics never seem to get the validation in research, no money no plots.
When the state has a professional group help trouble shoot, who do they hire to moderate? A Monsanto lifer.

A long time ago I stopped the negative and just started pushing the positives of local, organically grown, naturally raised products........it was fun to just reel off the junk again for oldtimes sake.


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