# battle axe anyone?



## junglist (Jul 13, 2010)

So one day satisfying my kitchen knife pr0n urges, I ran into this:





  








fdick-double-edged-cleaver.jpg




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junglist


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Mar 3, 2013








Just curious, has anyone used this? And what in the heck for?

'Man, breaking down that truck full of carcasses was rough, and my edge has gone dull. Oh wait, lemme just flip the blade over, hell yeah!'

'Today we are running a special on halibut, we're 86ing the chicken because the protein has turned, and... we're being invaded by vikings, but no worries we just received a shipment of double-edged cleavers.'


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Is the bevel the same on both edges?  And also, with the handle pointing away from you, sight down each edge; is each edge parallel with the handle?


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

It's a double-edged cleaver intended for butchering work. If you google "f. dick double edged" cleaver, you'll find your knife pops up all over the web at a wide range of prices.

Many people have fantasies about using a cleaver like an axe, hacking away with big swings. Unfortunately that's not the right way to use most cleavers, as it's not only very hard to aim a knife precisely when it's at the end of a full swing and extremely destructive to blade and board.

There are a few exceptions to the "it's a knife and not an axe" rule, and your double-edged cleaver is one of them. Leaning on the top of the spine in order to power the edge through cartilage is clearly not the intention with that baby.

I've never worked on full sides or hanging meat, but imagine that this one of the tools of choice.

Most F. Dick's are made with x45CrMoV15, which is "high carbon" according to the German steel industry, but "medium carbon" according to everyone else. Some of their higher end knives are X50CrMoV15, which is high carbon -- but since this one is from their "Cleaver" series, I'm guessing that it's X45CrMoV15.

Most F. Dick's are sharpened to a 15* edge angle (30* included), and indeed, that's the preset angle on their sharpeners. If you set your own angles freehand, try a 15* flat bevel, finished with a 22.5* micro-bevel (i.e., 22.5/15) with 50/50 symmetry.

To answer another of Kokopuff's questions, yes the long axes of the edges run parallel to the handle's long axis.

Enjoy,

BDL


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## knifesavers (Oct 5, 2011)

For the true battle axe of food processing you need their beef splitter.

http://www.125west.com/p-3551-fdick-splitter.aspx

34" of battleaxe although the double edge looks cooler. No real need but would be great looking wall hangers.

Jim


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## junglist (Jul 13, 2010)

I'm gonna need a bigger knife roll for that...

Reading the specifications BDL provides, I would imagine sharpening that thing would be an undertaking, and maintaining the edge(s) even more so 

I need to work on my dexterity like most Chinese cooks have and start using cleavers for most of my prep work. I can see the looks on my co-workers' faces if I busted out one of those axes to mince some garlic...


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## franzb69 (Jul 9, 2012)

i'd wear it on my back =D

chinese cleavers are more for veg and not for meat though.


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## betowess (Feb 14, 2013)

Junglist said:


> I'm gonna need a bigger knife roll for that...


/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif Fun thread! Forget the bigger knife roll. the knife roll sashed on your kimono's back, double fist the axe and cleaver on your next interview with the right smile ... "I've got an offer you can't refuse"...


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## junglist (Jul 13, 2010)

FranzB69 said:


> ...chinese cleavers are more for veg and not for meat though.


I said Chinese cooks and their cleavers, not Chinese cleavers  All the Chinese cooks I've worked with used their cleavers for _everything_, even chopping through bones. I might not recommend doing that with some Chinese/lighter cleavers though.

You can even look up some of the old Iron Chef episodes and see Chen Kenichi blazing through proteins with his cleaver.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Using a heavy cleaver for general prep, e.g., "mincing garlic," is not a good idea if it can be avoided. It's hard to get a really good, long-lasting edge on a thick knife, so you're always behind the eight ball when it comes to sharpening, and the weight is not only hard on the cook, but very bad for the board.

Even though they have similarly wide faces, not all Chinese "cleavers" are the same thing as "meat cleavers." Many, including those intended for general prep are much lighter. Those intended for chopping through bone are much heavier, and rather like a western meat cleaver.

Chef Kenichi's "cleaver" was nothing like the F. Dick cleavers which started this thread. He used a _chuka-bocho_, i.e., a Japanese interpretation of a Chinese slicing knife. Chuka-bocho are made with better steel and often sturdier than typical Chinese (cleaver shaped) knives. More specifically KenIchi used a No. 6 Sugimoto chuko-bocho.

Comparing some knives by weight might be edifying. 

Sugimoto no. 6, around 14oz;
Dexter-Russel Green River large Chinese Chef's Knife, around 10oz
CCK chinese slicing knife, also around 10oz; but on the other hand
CCK bone chopper, around 1lb 14oz, in other words, _close to two pounds_.
Decent chuko-bocho are _very_ expensive. If you want to start fooling around with a cleaver to see if it's something you might like for general prep work, I suggest either the CCK 1103, the CCK 1302 or the Dexter-Russel 8915. I think the CCKs work a little bit better, can be made somewhat sharper, but they're carbon, which may or may not be a problem for you.

Here's a pic of the 1103:





  








KF1201.jpg




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boar_d_laze


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Mar 6, 2013








Most modern DR Green-Rivers are stainless, including the 8915:





  








08040.jpg




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boar_d_laze


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Mar 6, 2013








The stainless knife looks _exactly_ the same as the DR carbon s5198 (note the reversal of the model numbers) which was the gold standard in U.S. Chinese kitchens for many years. It used to be that you could _always_ find several DR Green-Rivers in the kitchen of any good Chinese restaurant. Not so true anymore, though.

Before accepting any cleaver recommendations from me, remember that I neither use nor know that much about them. Chinese knives don't work nearly as well for me as western chef knives, but maybe that's because I didn't try a Chinese knife until after I was pretty good with a chef's and never thought the putative advantages were worth the negative trade-offs or the effort involved in relearning to do things I already did perfectly well.

BDL


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