# ACF's got me bummed..........



## culinarian247 (Jan 21, 2002)

It appears that all of my needed "education" requirement for certification has to come from competitions. Who has time for this?  I thought that having "classroom knowledge" required was recognizing those pursuing higher education(the old way had it best). I was wrong. I don't like the new format. I am not trying to disrespct anyone here by being so down on ACF's new criteria. But to me it seems like the ACF no longer believes my education in the classroom means anything. THAT is what I'm upset about.


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## chef1x (Dec 4, 2002)

247 I'm with you. I don't mind taking a practical exam 'cause that should be a breeze with a little preparation, and maybe a little fun. The written exam is a little bit of a drag because now I have to buy a half dozen more books and read them all, but at least you can do that at home. NOW to compete with all the geeks, shelack some food and go to at least a regional convention. I'm not even sure how and where, not too many details seem available yet. 
To quote ACF Pres. Edward Leonard," it (competition) is a great form of education and a way to build one's skills, as well as a way to share passion and knowlege."
Hmmmm, do ya think??!!
I don't mean any disrespect to anyone either, we ARE just venting right?
It's just a little frustrating after spending so many years and taking so many classes, etc, they raise the bar a little, make it cost a little more, etc. ACF professes to want to include all, but as 247 states, who has the time for this type of event UNLESS maybe you're corporate or club where they actually encourage this?
I was surprised to read, on the other hand that they are changing the way they select the "National Chef of the Year." Now individuals can nominate others, not just local chapters, AND it's only open to chefs who work in full-service establishments. Great.
247, keep me updated on your progress, I'll do the same. Good Luck!!


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

Many moons ago I worked with Ed Leonard.

We did a # of shows together and faired very well. However Ed was (and still) so full of himself.

The reason I left the ACF over 15 years ago was because I didn't believe in it's culture. I mean people where being crowned "master chefs" while they were still in dypers.

Being sure there wasn't a bubble in your aspic was more important then if you could control labor and food costs.

The ACF is a bunch of people high on themselves (except a rare few)

I would love to see some of these so called masters work with Robuchon or Point or Girardet.......ask any of the finest American chefs who there mentors where, (acf chefs.I don't think so)


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## chef1x (Dec 4, 2002)

Wow, you hung with Ed??!:lol: That's too funny. He looks very young in his photo for a CMC Geez, in fact, he looks younger than me!

But seriously, I think you bring up some interesting points that I have obviously been wrestling with. 
I was thinking just last night, wait a minute, all the amazing chefs that I know of or who I've come across, I don't think ONE of them are a CMC or whatever. I guess the thing is, I'm not one of those amazing chefs, so I look at the ACF as maybe a stepping stone. My heart generally tells me to avoid this kind of thing, but some f***d up sense of responsibility to myself and family tells me that this is the path, at least in some respects.

So I can only assume, at one time at least, you became a "certified" something or other. Do you think it was helpful at landing a position? I see all these job listings for the "big feeders" (thanks panini ) and they mostly require a CEC blah, blah, blah... 

What do you think of the competitions CC? As always, very grateful for your opinion and experience.:chef:


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## cape chef (Jul 31, 2000)

Chef1x,

As for Eds age he is in his mid 40s.

As for doing competitions,They helped me manage time and work as a team. 

Yes I became a CEC,and no it didn't land me a job....it was more of an ego thing than anything else.

The "big fish"whom only hire ACF types are missing out on some of the finest talent on earth. There lose.

I don't want to bad mouth people like ED (although I guess I already did) because if there happy that's cool with me.

Being responsible to yourself and your family (as you say) will not be codified by the ACF.

Keller,Soltner,Waters,Kamman,Vongerichten,Trotter, et al are not ACF,but can hold a stone fruit in there hand and tell you when and where it was grown.

Batali,Ducasse,Bouley,Meyer,Feron,Danko et al.Nope,not ACF.

The guy or gal who blows you away with there skill on the line day in and day out...maybe!? but probably not.

The finest pasty chefs of the world, ACF........?


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Well, I know people who have prepared for competition the night before   I did not like the competition requirement when I heard it. Competition is fine and dandy but in principle, you can get it down to a science. Someone with absolutely no experience can go through the motions and get a medal. I could coach someone to do it.

Didn't we talk about this in another thread? Don't you still get your CC if you graduate from culinary school?

Kuan


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## culinarian247 (Jan 21, 2002)

I did some more reading into the new system of the ACF and I believe so. To be a CC you need 10 "education" points and 20 experience points. Look here at the point schedule. From what I gather you get one point per class taken at an ACF accredited institution (last one at the bottom of the education list). At my school that may cover the initial certification requrements. It may not, however, be possible to gain anymore points from school. If, for example, I wanted to get my B.S. degree (which I plan to) none of those classe taken there could count because 4-year schools aren't accredited. So having a bachelor's degree is now completely meaningless to the ACF. They say they're "including" more people into their fold but in reality they have succeeded in excluding more. The only thing they've managed to "Kick up a notch" is their collective noses in the air.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

One thing at a time. One of the things you've ALWAYS needed with the ACF certification thing is patience. Sometimes it's something people kinda get along the way if things go right for them. Finish the BS. Then take a look around and see what you want to do! 

Kuan


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## chef1x (Dec 4, 2002)

Kuan, You are hired! 

Well they did add a lot of new info in the last few weeks and it's surprisingly informative.

247 I don't think your BS is for naught. Recheck that.

K, one of the things I came away with in looking at all this new info is that, as you say, one could possibly fake their way through a competition as they seem to be kinda arbitrarily judged. Not that I'm gonna complain even further, it just seems a little hypocritical, but this goes with the territory.

I guess the next complaint I have is that in order to compete, you generally have to visit some BFE place like MN. I don't see, for example many competitions scheduled for NYC?

If I listened to CC and maybe had a heart to follow, this would NOT be an issue!!

Go Raiders!


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## culinarian247 (Jan 21, 2002)

The ACF has implemented a "Grandfather" clause, so to speak. What this means is this: Anyone that was enrolled in an accredited program AND a member in good standing before January 1st will still receive their CC's upon graduation from their respective programs. They will not (and this is the only time) be subject to the competition requirement at this time. Everyone who enrolls after January 1st will be subject to the new guidelines. This includes those "grandfathered" in pursuing higher levels of certifications and renewals.


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## chef1x (Dec 4, 2002)

http://www.acfchefs.org/download/doc...pplication.pdf

247, not to drag this out, and forgive me if I'm just too dense to know it, but I see this is still posted on the ACF site. Are they really foolish enough to turn down PhD's, Masters, Bachelors, etc??? If it does amount to nothing as you say, you can believe some people will be hearing from me. I have a BS, a "diploma" from a non-acf accredited school (FCI, though funny enough, it is accredited by many other credible entities). I would suggest calling some people directly, I know I will, but first, I think some of our friends here can help clarify.

Kuan? I'm clicking my heels 3 times!!

Ooops, SORRY, that's KANSAS, not MN


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Well, used to be you got one point for participation, two for bronze, three for silver, or something like that. Let me tell you, you CANNOT fake your way through a competition. Sometimes it depends on the judge, or more accurately, how the judges decide to deduct points. But that's neither here nor there. What you need to do is call them and get the new competition manual. It's not easy. For those still in school I always recommend they get on the school culinary team when they have a chance. After school you'll probably have to wait 10 years before you get another chance, or day off  

Kuan


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## chef1x (Dec 4, 2002)

Sorry Kuan, I misunderstood your implication. To be more acurate, I guess it's like taking any test. If you study enough and follow all the rules, you pass. Does that necessarily make you a good cook? I think not.
The ACF site DOES have a downloadable Competition manual available at no cost, and according to the literature it's the latest one, updated as of last year. I went through it and while it is very informative, it does not give specifics on how one can independently join a competition.
and well right NOW  I have LOTS of time off, but no competition to be found. Poor me 
Thanks for the info as always!
1X


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Custom soup bases sponsors a competition yearly. You can call them. Check in your culinary review white pages. There's always a list. There's a junior competition Feb 8, 9 at Delhi College of Technology, SUNY, New York. My guess is this is local competition to select the regional junior team.

Kuan


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## chef1x (Dec 4, 2002)

Well I WAS carded recently at a GROCERY store, and then she started laughing. So, yeah, don't think I can get into any of those "junior competitions," OH, and let's hear from those juniors. Any Here?
And I know you're just trying to rile me up with talk about a "Custom Base" competition. http://www.cheftalkcafe.com/forums/s...highlight=base

I WAS considering submitting a recipe for the Tyson Chicken competition, but even then, like the Base comp., you must submit a recipe, be selected as 4 in 4 million, and then you compete.

Shouldn't there be a few more opportunities??  :chef:


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Oh yeah I'm sure there are more, I just don't know where they are. The NY restaurant show should have one. The student categories are pretty cool to watch. Nice to watch kids working it hard.

Well, there's always one at ACF. This year I think it's in DC. Or you can hit the Chicago show coming up. If you have the $$ CIA offers a competition prep class. Good way to start brown nosing some of the potential judges, and many of them are on the faculty there. 

Kuan


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## chef1x (Dec 4, 2002)

So I saw the "competition" at the NY rest. show, and though I only saw one chef out of them all, it seemed pretty lame. The sauce was weak, the cooking uninspired, very hard to observe the chefs at work, styrofoam plates for all to try. I guess it could be worse. I will try to check it out more tomorrow. One of the judges walked away after the presentation. Then again, I didn't really notice the ACF logo anywhere.

Think maybe I'll check out that class you mention, even if for future ref, did you take it?


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

No I didn't take the class. The NY rest. "competition" sounds like a very unofficial one. Many of the categories require four plates, one for presentation, one for tasting, don't remember what hte other two were for. Hrm weird...

Kuan


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