# Who knew replacing a knife was such pain?



## Will_Owe80 (Dec 26, 2018)

I want to preface this thread by stating that I have been in this business since I was 14, I am now 38. At 35, I was tired of "the life" and went corporate. Amazingly I had been able to raise a family and keep my original wife whilst working in restaurants. However it was time for a change. I hung up my trustee Global G-66 Oriental Chef knife (which replaced my "misplaced" G-48 Santoku) and went to a work for corporate America. The point of this thread is about knives, so let me get to it. I have taken on a new position in the company that requires me to bring out that old knife bag and do some real work (YAY!) However my trustee G-66 has been our home knife for 3 years now, and my wife is not willing to let it go without a fight. So I entered the world of knife shopping. Now let me tell you, I loved my Global knives. However I quickly realized that they have fallen out of favor on the "all knowing, all powerful internet." After much reading and debating I settled on a Masamoto VG 210 Gyuto. Which do not get me wrong, is a lovely knife. I enjoy it very much. However it almost seems too fragile for everyday kitchen usage. Maybe I am wrong but I live my life by first impressions....I went back to Globals and bought a Global Sai-01 Chefs Knife. Which feels like a heavy duty knife that will stand up to anything I will throw at it. Anyone have experience with the Sai products from Global? I cannot find a whole lot of real world information on this particular line of Global knives. Am I wrong a the Masamoto? Opinions? Thoughts?


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## sgsvirgil (Mar 1, 2017)

For plowing through the volume of ingredients that we would typically process in a commercial kitchen, the ergonomics of the Sai-01 are pretty darn good. Probably one of the best I've ever used. I didn't feel like I had a log of dead wood hanging off my elbow when I was done with several dozen pounds of vegetables. The 8in chefs knife weighs about 8-9 oz or so as compared to the 6-7 oz of the Masamoto. But, the ergonomics and the shape of the handle more than make up for the difference in weight. At least, I think so. 

The cons are that the blade is not quite as sharp as other knives out of the box and the blade tends to be quite stiff, which is fine for most tasks that call for a chef's knife. The tip is a little thin and can break. So, you have to keep an eye on that. But, if you are doing any sort of task that requires a bit of flex in the blade, this knife is probably not going to be your first choice. The price point for the Sai-01 is also a little bit high, imo. 

At the end of the day, short of dropping a nuclear bomb on the Sai0101, its going to last a very long time. But, other than the price point, I really have little in the way of negative opinions about it. 

Would I choose it as my "go to workhorse? No. I prefer a chef's knife with a bit of flexibility in the blade. But, if I had to spend several hours chopping, cutting or whatever, I think this knife would be at the top of a very short list. 

Good luck.


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## Will_Owe80 (Dec 26, 2018)

Thanks for the input. I do like the weight and ergonomics of the Sai's. I have yet to put any of them through the paces though. I think in time they will prove to be a nice addition. As for the price point.I actually scored a set from a retail outlet. They were discounted from $500 to $199. The set consisted of a 7.5in Chef, 6in Serrated, 5in Utility and 3.5in Paring. I feel as if this was a hell of a deal. I will keep and eye on the tip, thanks for the advice. 
Just out of curiosity what are you currently using for your workhorse?


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

My work horse?

A Victorinox 10” chef’s. Yeah, yeah, it’s well under a $100.00, and yes, you can call it inexpensive, but you cant call it a cheap knife, I really don’t care.

I work in the kitchen for a living. Gawd knows how many “workplace issues” I’ve witnessed regarding those (deleted) *&$#@-ing expensive knives gone missing. 9 times out of 10 it’s a simple case of misplacing the knife, but the drama! The yells, the screams, the panic, the threats of amputation, castration, law suits; the dumpster diving, the interrogations, the pleading, the requests to for me, personally, to review cctv footage over the last 8 hrs. Basically it’s a ( deleted) waste of time and money on the kitchen payroll. I ask them, “ would you bring a $1,000 compter to work?” No? Then why the (deleted) would you bring $1400 worth of knives to work?

Get an inexpensive knife for a workhorse. Need to prep two cases of butternut squash, and only have a newbie dishwasher to help? Victorinox or MAC to the rescue. The edges don’t chip, they hold an edge for a shift or two, and it’s an easy 5 minutes on the stones to get them back in shape. Loose it or abuse it, and it’s not a heartbreak to go out and get a new one.

That, for me, is a workhorse in a commercial kitchen. For one at home— whatever floats your boat.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

Friends don't let friends buy or own Global knives.


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## Will_Owe80 (Dec 26, 2018)

Iceman said:


> Friends don't let friends buy or own Global knives.


Hmm interesting comment. Care to elaborate?


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

It's just a simple opinion. Don't take it for anything more than that. Everyone has an opinion. I think Global knives suck.


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## sgsvirgil (Mar 1, 2017)

Will_Owe80 said:


> Thanks for the input. I do like the weight and ergonomics of the Sai's. I have yet to put any of them through the paces though. I think in time they will prove to be a nice addition. As for the price point.I actually scored a set from a retail outlet. They were discounted from $500 to $199. The set consisted of a 7.5in Chef, 6in Serrated, 5in Utility and 3.5in Paring. I feel as if this was a hell of a deal. I will keep and eye on the tip, thanks for the advice.
> Just out of curiosity what are you currently using for your workhorse?


Im retired now. But, I've had several over the years. I have two old Wusthof 8' and 9.5' that I inherited from my uncle many years ago. After he passed, I brought them home and that's where they've been ever since.

For work, I had a flexible Santoku that I picked up while in Japan back in the early 80's and two exact copies of the Wusthof knives that my uncle gave me. I didn't use anything too flashy or expensive at work because they get dropped, the tips get broken or they get stolen. The Sai knives belonged to my executive chef. She brought them in a few years back and talked me into trying them. I was reluctant at first. They looked too "space-aged" for me. You know, "old dogs and new tricks" and all that. But, I tried one out just to shut her up and I liked it. I never heard the end of it either.


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## Will_Owe80 (Dec 26, 2018)

Iceman said:


> It's just a simple opinion. Don't take it for anything more than that. Everyone has an opinion. I think Global knives suck.


I guess I was looking for an explanation for your opinion. I have the same reactions to Shun knives. I don't like them. They feel odd in my hands. I really can't explain why, they just dont feel right.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

I dislike their handles. I think they suck. I think every knife with that style of handle sucks.

I'll take a Shun every day over a Global.


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

I don't like the way Globals sharpen. The wire edge is tenacious, lots of work to get the burr off. I just don't like to sharpen them, and they don't get as sharp as they should IMO.


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## mrglacier (Mar 6, 2015)

Global handles are slippery. 

Victorinox FORGED 8" or 10". $120. Just an amazing knife.


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## Will_Owe80 (Dec 26, 2018)

I do agree that Globals are a bit difficult to sharpen, the classic line anyway. I can not speak to the sharpening of the Sai line yet. The handles have never been an issue for me. I have never found them any more slippery than any other knife. The only negative I would say about the handles is that the "dots" can get food particles stuck in them. Which can be an issue if they are not being maintained correctly. I guess it truly is just a matter of personal opinion.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Indeed... knives are truly is mostly a matter of personal opinion.


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## mhpr262 (Dec 6, 2013)

Will_Owe80 said:


> Hmm interesting comment. Care to elaborate?


They are not bad but it has been a long time since they were anywhere close to the top of the line products in the kitchen knife world. They have been living off their reputation they made at their introduction for many years now.


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## Will_Owe80 (Dec 26, 2018)

After 2 weeks of commercial kitchen usage here are my thoughts. I like the Sai line for commercial use. They are sturdy and there is no fear of breaking or chipping them. The edge could be better. I intend on running them over my stones and see if I can get them a bit sharper. The redesigned handle is nifty. I like it. I will say that the indention on the handle for thumb is cool but I tend to choke up on the blade (maybe a little too far but hell thats the way I hold it) . I did however switch to my Masamoto while slicing onions, the thinner blade is more preferred for that task. Overall I think Globals are still a solid WORK knife. They feel solid and will stand up to kitchen abuse. Yes there are much better knives out there but for work usage I think these will do just fine.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

I've never seen Globals or Shun knives used in any good pro kitchen.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Iceman said:


> I've never seen Globals or Shun knives used in any good pro kitchen.


I have. So what? Does the knife really make a food (or cook) any better or worse?


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

In my experience as cooks move up through the ranks they begin to take interest in all aspects of the business; recipes, techniques, tools, etc. This probably isn't universal but it's what I've seen. You could work as an Exec for 30 years with just a Wal-Mart $9 Chinese knife but that's not what I've generally seen.


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## Will_Owe80 (Dec 26, 2018)

Iceman said:


> I've never seen Globals or Shun knives used in _any good pro kitchen_.


Trying to figure out if this was meant to be a dig at me. Thinking it was.



Iceman said:


> Friends don't let friends buy or own Global knives.





Iceman said:


> I dislike their handles. I think they suck. I think every knife with that style of handle sucks.
> 
> I'll take a Shun every day over a Global.





Iceman said:


> I've never seen Globals or Shun knives used in any good pro kitchen.


Ok point taken, you don't like Global. Awesome man. Some people, including myself don't have the same opinion. No need to keep interjecting your obvious distain though. We get it.

I suspect you are elated now that you have gotten a rise from me. Is that what you were going for the whole time?


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

_"So what ..." _

So it's just a simple statement that I've never seen any decent pros use Global or Shun knives. It's just a simple statement.

_Will_Owe80_ ... I'm not at all concerned that you got any rise. This is a bulletin board forum. We're all just having conversation. I wasn't making any digs. And NO ... I'm not elated.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

“It's just a simple statement.”

So was mine. You haven’t; I have. The “so what” is that we’ve had totally opposite experiences... it’s not a critique of either your opinion or your experience. Are we good?


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## Will_Owe80 (Dec 26, 2018)

Ahhh opinions are like , well you know. Its Friday, time for a beer.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Meh, opinions, onions, whatever.

I just wanna say, I’m “thinning the herd “ of my “collection”( koff koff) of Cutco knives. They have done stupendous duty of numerous tasks, like, um, peeling the layer of fermented grass off of my lawnmower and weedwacker, ( they’re so flexible!) cutting foam insulation, oh, and cutting roots from under the ground, they never dull!

So I’m offering the complete set for up for sale!

Not! 
Now let’s get back to regular programming......


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## harrisonh (Jan 20, 2013)

OK several things.

I saw the ridiculous claim that Globals are not used in working kitchens. Globals are NOT a knife I personally enjoy using, but they are NOT objectively bad knives. I have seen them used in scores of kitchens I've visited, by hundreds of chefs including many working in Michelin starred restaurants or Beard winning or 5 diamond level restaurants. I'll get a little more into global later, but they are NOT bad.

Another thing is the throwing in of name brands like each one is a product all unto itself. The one that seems to pop up a lot is shun. Do you guys not get that a shun classic is different than a kanso is different than a premier is different than a blue. And NOT just in price and even within the same brand higher prie does NOT mean better knife.
Just like with cars, someone that just says ford or chevy is worse than useless. A chevy cruze is different than a chevy corvette or a chevy Silverado. You don't want to pull a boat with a corvette, You don't want to race or do hairpins in a Silverado and a cruze gets better gas milage than either of them. Each is a different product for a different user.

Also while there are objectively great knives, that does NOT mean that they are good for the end user. I think theOP mentioned global vs masamoto. As much as I personally love Masamoto, one of their gyutos is gonna be useless to a person who uses a rocker cutting style. the same with MAC or Misono, and many other brands. (while a mac ux10 is differnt than a 440, they are both very French) It depends on your ergonomics and your style. DESIGN matters.

AND it depends on what you're using it for. A very hard steel knife might not be good for some tasks such as cutting near bone or hard squash or for a cook that hammers his blades or has bed habits such as scraping product off the board or cutting at 85 degrees. A soft blade is better for those people. "Harder" steel does NOT mean "better". But harder steel usually takes a better edge, it definitely keeps it longer and usually comes in better design and mfg quality. It damages product less.

You'll never see a sushi chef using a Victorinox except for very coarse fabrication. Horrible handles for much more than 10 minutes of prep. The soft blade is way too soft for precision work. BUT you WILL see a TON of butchers using a vickie because that sharp blade can be honed easily and that soft blade almost never chip and the handles are spectacular in non slip properties. The thing that makesthem horrible in one way makes them superb for another.

SO
Getting back to global, their shape is definitely GREAT for rockers, AND their steel is a very happy medium of taking an edge better than a german steel knife but NOT being delicate like many other Japanese knives. It makes a good work horse for some people because unlike me, they are not switching a blade for hard work and switching for finesse work. they just use the same blade for both. Especially good on a very tight and busy line. And remember they differ from model to model, the design philosophy is consistant


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## harrisonh (Jan 20, 2013)

brianshaw said:


> I have. So what? Does the knife really make a food (or cook) any better or worse?


 I certainly agree that I've seen globals used in many top notch places.
BUT to the second part of your answer, what does the knife have to do with it, it DOES matter within reason.
A good knife is not going to make a bad cook into a cood cook. But it DOES force them to use better technique, a better life is LESS forgiving.
A better knife will inspire and that will help them get better A better knife takes less time away from task because usually they're harder so less time sharpening and less time honing. A better knife gives less fatigue over a shift, a week and a career. And a better knife damages product less. You're never gonna see a sashimi chef using a Victorinox except for very coarse fabrication.

But yeah, there is a certain degree of overreliance on hardware and underreliance on practice practice practice, discipline and learning about technique and cuisine


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

LOL.

First thing ... *brianshaw *... Yeah ... we're good. Sorry I haven't said anything sooner, I just haven't come back to this thread since.

Secondly ... _Globals suck_. I don't care what anyone else has seen or not seen. I don't see through your eyes and I don't speak for anyone else but ME.

Next ... The two(2) most common _"house knives"_ in big kitchens are either _Dexter_ or _Victorinox_. _Fibrox_ handles are the going standard pro NSF handles.

Lastly ... Comparing a Sushi Chef to a regular kitchen guy is stupid. A Sushi Chef cuts one(1) thing. ONE(1) THING. Sushi. That's why ... ready for this ... He uses a SUSHI KNIFE. Hello ... DUH.

Mr.







... meet Mr.







.


_"We work in kitchens ... It ain'te rocket surgery."._​


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## Will_Owe80 (Dec 26, 2018)

Just to clarify Sushi Chefs cut more than ONE THING. Sushi is the product which they prepare. The prep involved in preparing sushi consist of cutting vegetables, shellfish, and fish. Not to mention skinning, de-boning, and slicing that ONE THING generally requires more than one knife.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Will_Owe80 said:


> Trying to figure out if this was meant to be a dig at me. Thinking it was.
> 
> Ok point taken, you don't like Global. Awesome man. Some people, including myself don't have the same opinion. No need to keep interjecting your obvious distain though. We get it.
> 
> I suspect you are elated now that you have gotten a rise from me. Is that what you were going for the whole time?


Globals get low points from knife aficionados/nerds, simply because much better can be had for the same money, or less. Same goes for Shun, Henckles, Wusthof and most mass-marketed knives.

Hey Will, you're an exec now. Learn to pamper your knives just a eensy-teensy bit [buy always using good technique] and enjoy something that is just a phenomenal cutter. I'm not talking about the Masa VG per say, though it is great compared to a Global. Save the Global for hacking through coconut and such.


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## Will_Owe80 (Dec 26, 2018)

6 months later.........

The Masamoto has become my everyday knife. I have learned to trust its quality and no longer feel that it is too fragile for heavy kitchen duty. That being said I'm not working on the line for a 12 hour shift. If I were I do not believe that I would use it as much. The position that I am in lends itself to the usage of a nicer knife. As for the Globals, its kinda funny. I mainly use them for catering events. The customers comment on the uniqueness of the Sai styling. The Masamoto is a better knife, hands down. Cuts smoother, easier to sharpen, and stays sharp longer. That being said. There will always be a place in my knife bag for a Global knife. I do prefer the handling of the original line compared to the Sai though.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

I was gonna offer to buy that Masamoto from you if you still didn't like it :lol:


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