# Which ingredient?



## shimmer (Jan 26, 2001)

I recently made a cookie recipe from a book, and the dough ended up as a bunch of crumbles that wouldn't stick together instead of the "stiff dough" that was supposed to form. When I need to make dough stick together, what is the best ingredient to add more of, and why? Water? Milk? Butter? 

I know what I DO, but I don't know if it's right.

 ~~Shimmer~~


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

It REALLY depends what you think is lacking. Butter will make a cookie more tender, but it will spread more, and liquid will moisten the dough, yes, but if it's butter (or fat) that's missing, the liquid may yield a tough cookie (because you're using it to replace fat that's lacking). If you post the recipe, we can help you.


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## shimmer (Jan 26, 2001)

I think it might be a butter issue. Because... I decided to cook some anyway (I had to force it together) and they were okay tasting but as soon as they cooled were really "tough cookies."

But if it is butter, how much more should I add?

*Lemon Poppyseed Cookies* 
(From 365 Ways to Prepare for Christmas )

1 1/2 sticks unsalted butter, softened
1 cup sugar
2 tbsp poppy seeds
2 tsp grated lemon zest
2 cups flour
pinch salt

Here is what the instructions say:
1. Beat together butter and sugar until light and fluffy. Mix in poppyseeds and lemon zest. Add flour and salt and mix well to make a stiff dough. (This was the first time I knew something was wrong!!)
2. Divide dough in half and roll each piece in wax paper to make a cylinder about 2" in diameter, and 6 inches long. Refrigerate dough until firm, at least 4 hours.
3. Preheat oven to 350. Grease cookie sheets. Slice dough into rounds about 1/4" thick. Arrange about 1" apart on cookie sheets. Bake 12 minutes, or until edges of cookies are lightly browned.

Okay, I'm counting on all of you more experienced bakers out there who actually understand the chemical side of things. Please explain to me the WHY, or I'll never learn anything!!

You're great. Thanks so much! I wanted to try again, because even though they're a simple cookie the smell was wonderful.

~~Shimmer~~


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

That's basically a shortbread with WAAAYYY too little butter. My shortbread recipe uses a pound of butter to a cup of sugar, with a little bit more than a pound of flour. 

If you added liquid or eggs to it, that would ruin the delicate nature of shortbread, so just increase the butter, and you'll be in business.


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## m brown (May 29, 1999)

I would add water. 
Whip butter and sugar together then add seeds and zest and then the flour and a tablespoon of water. If the dough does not come together immediately (within a few paddle strokes) add another tablespoon of water. Try not to over mix the dough and I would even, now don't quote me on this, add a pinch of baking powder with the flour to take away the toughness of the cookie. 

I was given a wonderful formula for short cookie dough (not a shortbread) one time and it needed a little liquid, when I added water it gave the dough to extra liquid it needed to knead well.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

¾ pound butter 
1 cup Sugar 
1 tsp. Vanilla extract 
3 ½ cups all-purpose flour 
¼ tsp. Salt 


This is a shortbread cookie dough that has never failed me. You can do all kinds of things with it. I may have to try the poppy seeds and lemon zest


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm with Momoreg on this one. Adding liquids to a short cookie changes it, then it's not short...not enough liquid could make it tougher. Instead of adding baking powder for your effect MBrown, consider using cornstarch with your flour....it works REALLY well in a short cookie!


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## mudbug (Dec 30, 1999)

Shimmer, you may find this article helpful in your cookie making endeavors:


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## angrychef (Jan 15, 2001)

Increase your butter to 2 sticks(8 oz.) and lower your sugar to 3/4 cup or even 1/2 cup and you'll have great shortbread cookies.


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## marzoli (Nov 17, 2000)

That article is EXACTLY what I needed!:bounce:


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## mudbug (Dec 30, 1999)

Marzoli,

Glad you found it helpful.


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## kimmie (Mar 13, 2001)

I always find that type of information useful.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you!!


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## shimmer (Jan 26, 2001)

I tried again. I changed the butter to 1 cup, and decreased the sugar. The dough wasn't as crumbly as before, but still didn't really come together, so I added water 1 tsp at a time (I think I ended up adding only 2 tsp) to make a nice dough.

But the cookies are hard as rocks. 

What am I doing wrong? Has anyone tried the actual recipe out? It seems like the texture is grand before chilling. Maybe I should not do the chilling step?

Also, although I feel slightly sheepish for asking, :blush: what exactly is the texture I'm looking for? I"ve had so many variations of "shortbread" in my life, I hardly know what is correct. I only know that these cookies that I am ruining are not right. 

Please help me! I refuse to just put it aside. I am so mad. I had to make a fudge recipe last week three times before I got it right, but it was so great once I had the ingredients changed around to work right, and I'd like to feel the same satisfaction with these stupid cookies.

Thanks, y'all, for teaching me so much....

~~Shimmer~~


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

You should change recipe Shimmer, here are two:


Lemon Poppyseeds
36 Cookies

1 1/2 cups bleached all purpose flour
6 tablespoons poppyseeds
1/4 teaspoon salt
3/4 cup sugar
zest peeled from 3 medium lemons
1 cup unsalted butter
2 large egg yolks
2 teaspoons vanilla extract



Soften the butter. In a small bowl, whisk together the flour, poppyseeds and salt. In a mixing bowl, cream the sugar and butter until light and fluffy. Beat in egg yolks, vanilla and zest, and scrape the sides of the bowl. At low speed gradually beat in the flour mixture, just until incorporated.

Scrape the dough into a bowl and refrigerate at least for 1 hour.

Place two oven racks in the upper and lower thirds of the oven and preheat to 350°F.

Measure level tablespoons of dough and roll them between the palms of your hands to form balls. Drop each dough ball as soon as it is formed. Place on a cookie sheets, 2 inches apart.

Bake for 18 to 20 minutes or until the bottoms are browned. For even baking, rotate the cookie sheets from top to bottom and front to back halfway through the baking period.

Use a small angled spatula or pancake turner to transfer the cookies to wire racks to cool completly. 

If desired, sprinkle lightly with powdered sugar for an attractive finish.

Store in an airthight container at room temperature or in the freezer.


From: Rose's Christmas Cookies



Lemon Poppy Seed Cookies
40 Cookies

2 3/4 cups all purpose flour
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon baking powder
1 cup (2 sticks) unsalted butter, room temperature
1 1/4 cups sugar
1 large egg
2 tablespoons poppy seeds
2 teaspoons grated lemon peel
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
1/2 teaspoon lemon extract


Mix flour, salt and baking powder in medium bowl. Using electric mixer, beat butter in large bowl until light. Gradually beat in sugar. Beat in egg, then poppy seeds, lemon peel and extracts. Mix in dry ingredients in 3 additions. Gather dough into ball. Divide dough in half; flatten each half into disk. Wrap in plastic; chill 2 hours.

Preheat oven to 325°F. Butter 2 large baking sheets. Roll out 1 dough disk on floured surface to 1/8-inch thickness. Using 21/2-inch-diameter fluted cookie cutter, cut out cookies. Arrange cookies 1 inch apart on prepared baking sheets. Gather scraps; reroll and cut out more cookies. Chill cookies on baking sheets 15 minutes.

Bake cookies until edges just begin to color, about 18 minutes. Cool cookies on sheets 3 minutes. Transfer cookies to racks; cool completely. Repeat rolling, cutting and baking with remaining dough. (Can be made ahead. Store in airtight container at room temperature up to 2 weeks or freeze up to 1 month.)


From: Bon Appétit


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

I'm tellin' ya, increase your butter. Butter is a tenderizer, and will change the 'hard as rocks' texture of the shortbread. Once your dough is mixed, roll it out to the thickness you want, THEN chill it for 30 min. or so before cutting it. 

On a side note, If you roll it out on parchment paper, you can flip the chilled dough upside down onto another piece of paper to unstick it, and make it easier to transfer it to a pan.


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm right behind you Momoreg! YOU NEED MORE BUTTER! You went the wrong way Shimmer.

Other important points: YOUR RECIPE SOURCE!!!!!!!!! With baking the most important part is the RECIPE. Unforunately not all baking recipes work and not all baking recipes are good tasting! If your going to make something start with the best most trust worthy recipe you can find from a well known baker. Now... if your a pro baker and you have the time and money to play around tweeking a bad recipe, go for it. BUT I hope you will consider taking the easiest route "go with a great recipe source"! I'd personally scrap the recipe your using now and start over.

Their are bakers that we all know, they have wonderful reputations because they consistantly produce great recipes. Pulling recipes out of magazines and books written by not well known bakers leaves you vulnerable to bad recipes.

I'd be happy to give you a great recipe. There are several types of shortbread cookies, what are you looking for? Or are you just trying to learn about them in general?

Some shortbread cookies are rolled and cut into shapes before baking and almost always frosted for extra sweetness (they might look like a sugar cookie). There's a classic European shortbread which are kind of thick (baked in cake pans to hold their shape) and usually cut into wedges and pricked with a fork before baking (these taste good as they age) reg., chocolate, mocha or any flavor zest could be added, even poppy seeds. There's also thinner wedges (that are more American) that don't need pans to hold their shape and you can add mini chocolate chips or nuts to flavor these.

P.S. The chilling stage isn't hurting your recipe.


P.S.S. A great shortbread cookie doesn't have eggs in it!!! Their texture is dry when you bite into them. It can seem crumbly. But as you eat them you realize their tender and not overly sweet....their a perfect cookie for adults. Their taste because their made with only butter is subtle and buttery rich. When you add egg to them, they loose their crumble/flake and become denser and harder making them a rolled cookie not a shortbread.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

While I agree that it can be fun to gussie up shortbread cookies (linzer cookies, chocolate dipped, pecans, lemon/orange zest) for me, there is nothing quite like a well made, unadorned shortbread Also some of us non-pros enjoy the tweaking process


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

One thing I see, regarding the butter/flour ratio is that it should approach 1:1. I'm looking at it interms of weight and assuming a 4 oz. cup of flour. Is this true of coincidence?


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

I was just reading through this post. I read through the little post on all the tips about what you need to do to make perfect cookiies.
I've done a little baking and I must tell those who do occasional baking at home. Please don't read everything you see in print. I would alway's suggest that you follow recipes carefully and follow them according to the method and proceedure. Most published recipes from reputible people have been fined tuned and well tested. Altering recipes is not the way to go, that is why I did not appreciate the generic information about what certain ingredients do and how to alter recipes to your needs. 
If a recipe is not working for you, move on to another.
The question was answered by Momo and DeBord. And sometimes the pro's don't always have the answers.Unless you have unlimited funds and ingredients stick to the recipes. If a recipe does not work for you then get creative in ways to use the mistake,bars,ice cream topping, etc.
Just my 2 scents!!   
pan


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Why does the top of my head feel as though it has just been patted?


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

I see it like this: there's just zillions of things to learn in the pastry kitchen. You can read a couple shortbread cookie recipes then look up a couple sugar cookie recipes. It becomes fairly clear after looking at a several recipes what the proportions (or what they all have in common) are for the specfic type of cookie (or pastry) and you can see literally differences. Books are great tools. Professionals research recipes day in and day out using books. It costs money and time to tweek a recipe by trial and error. That's great if you like experimenting, I totally understand! But it really isn't for the average person at all.

BUT you can learn even more from having the time and ingredients left to make several different items. Then your really learning. I don't believe that the average person really knows enough of the actual science to ever really be certain that by doing this and adding that got them the best results. That's why there are test kitchens etc..., staffed by home econmists and others with specific knowledge of the science of baking. As written recently in The Bakers Dozen, just a small change in method keeping the same ingredients, the product won't turn out identically when made by different people. Pros have known this forever, it's what seperates the average chef from the better than average chef.

Like Panini mentioned, there are recipes that throw the most seasoned pros. You could spend a year on one recipe and I'm not really sure what the point would be (unless your going into unchartered territory creating something totally new) when you can pick up a perfectly great recipe in dozens of books.

The last of my two cents..........


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## shimmer (Jan 26, 2001)

*Shrug*

I appreciate the new recipes, and I might try them out. But I can't learn a thing if I just keep throwing things out that don't work. This is how I learn. I want to get to a point where I can tell in the bowl if something is not right, and how to fix it. When I used to work in a little bakery with no temperature control, I got a pretty good feel for those particular recipes, ie: how to adjust the flour content for the humidity of that day.

I want to get that way with any recipe. I know so many people say baking (as opposed to cooking) is scientific (measurements) vs. a "feel," but I have developed a feel for certain recipes before, and can make some cookies by dumping things in until it looks right. What I am trying to do now is develop a shortbread feel.

Perhaps to get this I will go back to the shortbread recipe provided by KyleW and try to figure out what exactly is different.

What I am trying to do in trying to make good cookies from this recipe is to learn what makes different things happen not just by reading about it, but by doing. 

To start with, I didn't go the wrong direction. I added an extra half cup of butter and decreased the sugar. That is what the majority recommended. I'm not sure if maybe I just didn't increase it enough, but there was almost no difference at all in the end result.

I'm sorry if some of you think I am wasting my time or money. I, on the other hand, feel that tinkering in the kitchen to understand baking science is invaluable, and I thank you sincerely for providing me with as much information as you know.

And if any of you have a few minutes, and some butter, sugar, flour, salt, poppy seeds, and lemon zest, maybe you could try it out and tell me how you made it work? That way I could also find out if there was something that I wasn't doing right. 

~~Shimmer~~


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

First, I am not looking to pick a fight  I apologize, in advance, if my thoughts upset, anger, provoke anyone.

Speaking for the non-pros here in ChefTalk, if I may be so bold, if we had a garden variety interest in cooking and baking we wouldn't be here. I am guessing that most of us are as interested in process as product. We recognize cooking and baking as crafts. That's what draws us to the kitchen. A trained monkey can follow a recipe. I want to know why steps A-E produce result Z. I bake more bread than anything else. And I bake more naturally leavened bread than other kinds. To bake naturally leavened bread you MUST understand the process. If you do not know the effects of hydration on a loaf, how are you going to adjust for humid days? If you do not know what a well built dough looks like and feels like, and rely blindly on a recipe, how to you account for the fact that the batch of flour you are using this week has a slightly higher protien content? 

As many of you know, I too attended a recent Baker's Dozen event. At the event I had the opportunity to ask questions of the members. Neither Fran Gage nor Peter Reinhart suggested I just go home and follow the recipe. Lauren Groveman, who was in the audience, found me in the hall and asked questions about how I was creating steam in my oven. If I have a question about an aspect of bread baking I an email Peter Reinhart. He never says "Just follow my recipe". 

We non-professionals come to ChefTalk and go to Baker's Dozen events because we want to learn, to understand. We come because you professionals have always been willing to share your hard earned knowledge. We hacks are just as passionate about things culinary as you professionals. We simply don't get paid to pursue our passion. 


Shimmer - This weekend I will add poppyseeds and lemon zest to my recipe and file a full report


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Again, I have created turmoil because my hands don't necessarily type what I have to say.
My post should have read, please be cautious in what you read. I read something that someone posted that talked about what different ingredients do in the baking process. Well I found holes in just about everything I read. I was trying to prevent people from taking this advise and applying it to just any recipe. It's just not that simple. My feelings came from following posts stating ,that is just what they needed to fix their baking problems.
Please, don't anyone get offended by my opinions. There is no difference in the"hacks" and the pro's, except the pro's get paid.
I personally learn everyday from handling the products. I don't post here often because most of the posts refer to things in print.
I have just as much respect for the home baker as I do for the business baker.
Kyle, you make my point. An article is not going to fix what is wrong with a recipe. If your relying on print to fix, than you probably don't understand the product. If you don't understand the product than stick to the recipe.
I probably still have not expressed myself right, but I by no means ever try to talk down to someone, I have had my share of that. Sorry.
I'll just stick to reading
pan


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

Pan- I think we are trying to say similar things  Reliance on the printed word can be dangerous. I work with computers. I deal a lot with things related to data security, hacking, viruses etc. There is a term we use; Trusted Source. It refers to files attached to emails, downloads and other things you bring on to your computer. If you know the source than you will feel safer accepting the file(s). The same is true in baking. I know Peter Reinhart has done a lot of work to ensure the information he publishes is accurate. He is a Trusted Source. 

The better we understand the process, the effect a certain ingredient has on it, the better able we are to know wheter someting we are reading makes sense


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Kyle,
Thank you for speaking for me. You have it. Not only can't I seem to type my thoughts, but I find it very difficult to communicate with people who don't do this for a living without stepping on toes.
I was trying not to come out and say don't take everything your read as fact, but I also did not want to discourage anyone from getting a recipe and trying it.
Ya know I don't buy cookbooks anymore. I have friends who are very published and I see them rushed to produce. I have a very good friend who we all know who told me he just sh-- out his last two books to meet his deadline to get paid. AGAIN! There are great books out there, but for me personally, I have to purchase quite a few to hit one one I half like and enjoy.
Have a Safe and Healthy Holiday Everyone
Jeff


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## w.debord (Mar 6, 2001)

Well appearantly I've inserted my size 9 1/2 shoe in my mouth again! I'm sorry, I honestly don't attempt to be difficult or to offend! 

I'm apparently very stupid, I just don't get it (please I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just trying to understand you). If you write "but I can't learn if I just keep throwing things out that don't work. This is how I learn". This confuses me. That's what I'm saying too. Except I don't understand how you learn from this approach, my brain doesn't work like that. I see that as a contradiction? help??????????? I just don't understand.......


Personally as I seperate pro from non pro I don't mean to "talk down to" anyone (that's not my hearts intent!). The differences are in the amount of time spent baking, that's why I mention pro vs. non-pro, it's TIME=Experience spent in the process. I'm not refering to interest, intelligence, love of, passion for, etc.... 

I unforunately, seem to see alot of black and white shades in the pastry department.... and find the shades of grey to be very narrow in the baking kitchen. I apparently don't see things the same way as everyone, I respectful wish to disagree.

I honestly can't agree that anyone can bake great a cookie by feel consistantly. UNLESS they make that batch daily (as in a pro or a well seasoned DAILY baking home chef) and quite frankly I'd prefer to see that person use a scale too, I reserve that technique for ONLY for the master baker. Of which, there are few.

Baking bread is extremely different than baking cakes and cookies, there is a black and white difference between breads and cakes in the pastry department. Bread baking is FAR closer to the hot side of cooking than making pastries. 

I respectfully wish to dis-agree and hope you'll believe me that I mean no ill intent or rudeness in my words.


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

W. is right. The difference between pros and non-pros is simply the amount of time spent in the kitchen. It has nothing to do with intelligence. I believe people come here to ask questions of pros for exactly that reason, in hopes that they can learn something that they have less experience in. There doesn't have to be any talking down or disrepect. We are all here to give and take from each other.

Shimmer, I think you may just as easily learn by seeing how a good recipe works, than trying to improve upon a bad one. If you have 2 similar recipes, but with different proportions of one or 2 ingredients, you will immediately understand what those ingredients do for that type of product. And in the meantime, you'll end up with something you want to eat, rather than creatively recycle it by turning it into crumbs.


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## kylew (Aug 14, 2000)

George Santayana sums up my feelings on this rather eloquently  "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Shimmer and I are of similar mind. To avoid repeating a mistake, you need to remember (learn, understand) what it was.

Wendy, you and I agree to this extent. There is no reason to beat a dead horse


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## mudbug (Dec 30, 1999)

Shimmer, I agree with Isa and the others.

If you're having this many problems with that recipe, just try a different one and see if it doesn't work better for you. Also, some of these cookie recipes are supposed to turn out hard and crispy and others are not. What type of texture are you wanting in the end?

Also you said "But I can't learn a thing if I just keep throwing things out that don't work. This is how I learn."

If you start out with a bad recipe, you end up with a bad product. If you want to _learn_, find a recipe that DOES work for you and THEN compare the recipes to see what is different.

Just because the recipe you used was in a book doesn't mean it is tried and true. What if you knew for sure it was a bad recipe to begin with?

There is a lot to be said for *"tried and true"* recipes.

Why not try a new one just for fun and to see if it will work...?

Munn Cookies

"These lemon poppy seed cookies are Jewish in background. They are a thin crispy cookie, that's wonderful with tea. "

3 cups all-purpose flour
1/2 cup poppy seeds
1 1/2 teaspoons baking powder
1/4 teaspoon salt
1 cup butter, softened
2/3 cup white sugar
1 egg, separated
2 tablespoons lemon zest
1/4 cup lemon juice
1/3 cup granulated sugar for decoration

Directions: 
1 Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C). Line baking sheets with parchment paper.

2 Stir together the flour, poppy seeds, baking powder and salt.

3 In a medium bowl cream the butter and sugar together until light; beat in the egg yolk, lemon zest and lemon juice. Fold in the flour mixture and mix well.

4 Divide dough in half and roll each half out on a lightly floured surface until 1/8 to 1/4 inch thick. Cut with cookie cutters and place cookies on the prepared baking sheet. Brush tops of cookies with beaten egg white and sprinkle with white sugar.

5 Bake at 350 degrees F (175 degrees C) for 12 to 15 minutes or until golden, the edges should be light brown.

from allrecipes.com

______________________________________________
LEMON - POPPY SEED COOKIES
Source: "The Village Baker's Wife" by Gayle and Joe Ortiz
Yield: 40 to 50 cookies

2 tablespoons poppy seeds 
1/2 cup (4-ounces) butter, at room temperature 
1 cup sugar 
1 large egg 
1/4 teaspoon pure vanilla extract 
2 tablespoons grated lemon zest 
1 3/4 cups all-purpose flour 
1/4 teaspoon salt

Preheat the oven to 325 degrees.

Place the poppy seeds on a baking sheet and toast for 4 or 5 minutes, or just until they start to brown. Set aside.

In the bowl of a tabletop mixer fitted with the flat beater, cream the butter and sugar. Add egg and vanilla and mix to incorporate. Add the lemon zest and poppy seeds and mix. Add the flour and salt and mix once more to incorporate completely. Divide the dough into two flat, circular pieces and cover each with plastic wrap. Place the dough in the refrigerator for at least 1 hour or overnight. The dough may also be frozen for up to 2 weeks at this point.

Line two baking sheets with parchment paper. Remove the dough from the refrigerator and let it come to almost room temperature. Remove the plastic wrap, pinch off walnut-sized pieces, and roll them into balls. Place the balls 2 inches apart on baking sheets. Bake on the center rack in the oven for 15 minutes, or just until the cookies bacome golden brown. Transfer the cookies from the baking sheets to a wire rack to cool.

______________________________________________
Lemon-Poppy Seed Cookies
Meribeth Kaufman, Moundridge

Ingredients: 
4 eggs
1 cup canola oil
1 teaspoon vanilla
1 teaspoon butter extract
1 lemon cake mix (18.25 oz.) without pudding
1 box (3.4 oz.) instant lemon pudding mix 
1 cup rice cereal
1 1/4 cups coconut
1 yellow cake mix (18.25 oz.) without pudding
1/2 cup whole poppy seeds

Instructions: 
Preheat oven to 350 degrees.

Beat eggs, add oil and flavorings. Add lemoncake mix and lemon pudding. Beat at mediumspeed for one minute. Stir in cereal andcoconut. Add yellow cake mix and poppyseeds and blend well. Roll into balls the sizeof a walnut and place on lightly greasedcookie sheet. Bake at 350 degrees for 8 to 12minutes, depending on desired crispness ofthe cookies. Makes 8 to 12 dozen cookies.

I've baked lemon-poppy seed cakes. Afterseeing many lemon poppy seed recipes Idecided, why not a cookie? After severalcombination of ingredients, this cookiebecame the family favorite.

Variation: Shape dough into logs, refrigerate or freeze, then slice into discs and bake.

______________________________________________
Mrs Fields Lemon Poppy Seed Cookies

2 c All-purpose flour 
1/2 ts Baking powder 
1 1/2 ts Freshly grated lemon zest 
1 ts Ground corriander 
2 tb Poppy seeds 
1/4 c Salted butter; softened 
1 c White sugar 
2 lg Egg yolks 
1 lg Egg 
1 1/2 ts Pure lemon extract

Preheat oven to 300-degrees F. In a medium bowl combine flour, baking soda, lemon zest coriander and poppyseeds. Mix well with a wire whisk and set aside. In a large bowl cream butter and sugar with electric mixer at medium speed until mixture forms a grainy paste. Scrape down sidw of bowl, then add yolks, egg and lemon extract. Beat at medium speed until light and fluffy. Add the flour mixture and mix at low speed just until combined. Do not overmix.

Drop by rounded tablespoons onto ungreased cookie sheets, 2 inches apart.

Bake for 23-25 minutes until cookies are slightly brown along edges. Immediately transfer cookies with a spatula to a cool surface.

______________________________________________
LEMON-POPPY SEED COOKIES 
Makes about 6-1/2 Dozen Cookies

1 -1/4 cups granulated sugar 
1 cup Butter Flavor Crisco all-vegetable shortening or 1 Butter Flavor Crisco stick 
2 eggs 
1/4 cup light corn syrup or regular pancake syrup
2 tablespoons poppy seeds 
1 tablespoon grated lemon peel 
1 -1/2 teaspoons pure lemon extract 
1 teaspoon vanilla 
3 cups all-purpose flour (plus 4 tablespoons), divided
1 teaspoon ground ginger 
3/4 teaspoon baking powder 
1/2 teaspoon baking soda 
1/2 teaspoon salt

Place sugar and shortening in large bowl. Beat at medium speed of electric mixer until well blended. Add eggs, syrup, poppy seeds, lemon peel, lemon extract and vanilla; beat until well blended and fluffy.

Combine 3 cups flour, ginger, baking powder, baking soda and salt. Add gradually to shortening mixture, beating at low speed until well blended.

Divide dough into 4 equal pieces; shape each piece into disk. Wrap with plastic wrap. Refrigerate 1 hour or until firm.

Heat oven to 375ºF. Place sheets of foil on countertop for cooling cookies.

Sprinkle about 1 tablespoon flour on large sheet of waxed paper. Place disk of dough on floured paper; flatten slightly with hands. Turn dough over; cover with another large sheet of waxed paper. Roll dough to 1/8-inch thickness. Remove top sheet of waxed paper. Cut out with floured scalloped round or heart cookie cutters. Place 2 inches apart on ungreased baking sheet. Repeat with remaining dough.

Bake one baking sheet at a time at 375ºF for 5 to 6 minutes or until edges of cookies just begin to brown. DO NOT OVERBAKE. Cool 2 minutes on baking sheet. Remove cookies to foil to cool completely.

from Crisco.com

______________________________________________
Lemon and Poppy Seed Cookies
Makes 36 cookies

"To give these cookies a shimmering glow, add a tablespoon or two of edible glitter to the powdered sugar. If necessary, freshen the sugar coating just before serving. "

Ingredients:
1/2 cup butter, softened
1/2 cup granulated sugar
1 tablespoon poppy seed
1/8 teaspoon baking soda
1 egg yolk
1 tablespoon milk
2 teaspoons finely shredded lemon peel
1/2 teaspoon vanilla
1 1/2 cups all-purpose flour
1 cup sifted powdered sugar
yellow edible glitter (optional)

Directions

1 In a medium mixing bowl beat butter with an electric mixer on medium to high speed for 30 seconds. Add granulated sugar, poppy seed, and baking soda; beat until combined, scraping sides of bowl occasionally. Beat in egg yolk, milk, lemon peel, and vanilla until combined. Beat in as much of the flour as you can with the mixer. Using a wooden spoon, stir in any remaining flour.

2 Divide dough in half. Shape each half into a 9-inch-long roll. Wrap in plastic wrap or waxed paper. Chill in the refrigerator for 4 to 24 hours. Using a sharp knife, cut dough into 1/2-inch slices. Place slices 1 inch apart on ungreased cookie sheet.

3 Bake in a 375 degree F oven for 7 to 9 minutes or until edges are firm and bottoms are light brown. Place powdered sugar in a plastic bag. If desired, add edible glitter to powdered sugar. While still warm, transfer several at a time to the bag. Gently shake until coated. Transfer cookies to a wire rack; cool. When completely cool, gently shake cookies again in powdered sugar.

Make-Ahead Tip: Bake and cool cookies as directed. Do not coat with sugar. Place in freezer container; seal and freeze up to 3 months. Thaw about 15 minutes. Shake in powdered sugar as directed.

http://cookie.allrecipes.com/AZ/LmnndPppySdCkis.asp

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Lemon Poppy Seed Cookies with Cream Cheese Filling 
By Cheri Sicard

Over the fifteen years or so since I've known him, my friend Gary Stewart - a true dessert fiend - has been the tester for countless sweet creations of mine. When he tasted these cookies, he instantly declared them the best thing I had EVER made. I can't say they are without question THE BEST (my recipes are like children, I love them all), but this is definitely a favorite. The cookies are also delicious without the filling.

2 3/4 C flour 
1/2 tsp. salt 
1/2 tsp. baking powder
1 C butter 
1 1/3 C sugar 
1 large egg 
4 tsp. poppy seeds
2 1/2 tsp. grated lemon zest 
1/2 tsp. vanilla extract 
1 1/2 tsp. lemon extract

Filling
8 oz. cream cheese, softened to room temperature
1/2 C sugar
3/4 tsp. lemon extract 
1/4 tsp. vanilla extract

Filling 8 oz. cream cheese, softened to room temperature 1/2 C sugar 3/4 tsp. lemon extract 1/4 tsp. vanilla extract

Mix flour salt and baking powder. In a separate large bowl, beat butter until light and fluffy, gradually beat in sugar, then egg and poppy seeds, zest and extracts. Gradually mix in dry ingredients. Gather dough into a ball and divide in half. Flatten each half into a disc, wrap in plastic and chill for at least an hour.

Preheat oven to 325° F.

Grease two large baking sheets or line them with parchment paper. On a floured surface, roll out a dough disk to 1/8 inch thickness. Use a 2-3 inch round cookie cutter (or the bottom of a small glass) to cut out cookies. Arrange on the prepared baking sheets, 1 inch apart. Gather the scraps and re-roll to make more cookies.

Bake for about 15 minutes, or until cookies are just starting to turn brown. Cool on baking sheets for 2 minutes before transferring to a wire rack to cool completely.

To Make Filling Beat all the filling ingredients together until light and fluffy. Spread about 2 teaspoons of filling on the bottom of one cookie and press another cookie, bottom side down, onto the filling. Chill until ready to serve. Try to assemble the cookies as near to the time when you will be eating them as possible. Extended time in the refrigerator will make them lose their crispness.


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Cchiu,


Have you tried The lemon poppy seed cookie from The Village Baker's Wife? 


I was going to post the recipe but noticed it calls from one egg yet further down in the instruction they mentions eggs.


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## mudbug (Dec 30, 1999)

Sorry about that Isa, my mistake. One egg.

Haven't tried it myself, if you do, let us know how it turns out!

The last recipe by Cheri Sicard sounds especially delicious!


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

thanks for the read.   
I get most of my recipes from cookbooks 1950 and back. They are very simple and usually take alot of enhancing without disaster.
There ARE no new recipes. Everything has been tried at one time or another.
I have great recipes if anyone is interested, you'll just need to purchase a 40 or 60 qt. mixer and your off.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Great thread~ different styles of learning.....Shimmer, hands on baking classes may be a great answer for cookies and pastries. Consider hiring a private instructor for a couple of classes or look for cooking schools.....I learn the same way you do...and teach kinesthetically and more than not themetically<just the way my mind thinks.
check out "In the Sweet Kitchen" for product info....I started using rice flour after using her recipes.
I've thrown out 3 books from Rose Levy Berenbaum......did not work for me AT ALL> got tired of horrible results.
***Panini, I love my candy and pastry books from the 50s....clear easy to replicate and GOOOD> of course the excessive use of marshmellow is alittle disconcerting but HEY the almond toffee, peanut brittle, pecan balls, fudge cannot be improved on. IMHO


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

No Cchiu it's not your mistake. It's in the book. It says one egg in the ingredients yet later they talk about eggs....


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## mudbug (Dec 30, 1999)

Isa,

Had it right the first time!? 

Suppose there's only one way to know for sure, eh?

I bet if you make it you'll have an instinct by the consistency of the batter...

Let us know if you try it.


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## isa (Apr 4, 2000)

Cchiu,


Not being a fan of lemon poppy seed cookies, you can not count on me to test the recipe.


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