# Advice on best way to find a Chef Partner



## floridavenue (Aug 31, 2011)

Hello,

I am an owner and operator of multiple venues consisiting of bars, nightclubs and wine bars in Orlando Florida who has recently decided to venture into building a full service wine bar, within a complex of the above venues. I am looking for advice or direction on finding a partner chef. Trade publications, culinary schools or craigs list all seem valid avenues, but I want to work smart to find the right fit. I learned long ago to ask the right questions to the right people, so here I am. 

The set up is rather simple. There will be a kitchen provided as well as full support with all front of house and back of house. No investment is needed. Just a hard worker to come in and put together a program for the group and themselves. There will be a weekly draw for costs and a monthly distibution from the net, which will be split according to the partnership agreement.

Any sugguestions on how to locate a good parter?

Any suggestions on the above partnership structure (this is a 40k foot high synopsis)?

Any thoughts on hiring a recommended student from Orlando Le Cordon Blue school and how to find that student?

Any suggestion on the interviewing process?

I know that is alot of "suggestions," so if you have a moment just choose the most obvious =)

John


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Oh.

Dear.

(deleted).

Uh, a "Chef" will usually design the kitchen to fit the theme of the place and to fit the menu.

A Chef will have the connections to hire his own staff, and most prefer to do it this way anyway.. 

No Idea what kind of partnership you have in mind, but from what it sounds like,it is short term.

Programs are fine for computers, but kitchens need a leader and leadership.  Don't have one of those, and you have hell on your hands, costing you money every day.. 

Culinary schools will yield you culinary school graduates. Yes they should know how to cook, but it is not guaranteed that they know how to run a kitchen or keep your costs in line.   What do you want with a culinary schoold graduate?  What are your expectations of them?

Craigs list?  Caveat emporium and all that.

Head hunters are what you should be looking for.  They will cost, but they can find you people who have a proven track record with running a kitchen--not cooks--but Chefs.

Most successful start-ups usually have all the key people in place or "on hold" before any shovels hit the ground.  Usually these places are started by people with prior experience and have connections in the industry.   Experience is key to running a successful operation.

Hope this helps


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## thetincook (Jun 14, 2002)

Any reason why you're not wanting to treat your chef like a normal employee? Generally, you'd want to avoid partnership issues, especially where liquor licenses are involved. What if your partner has a felony? What if you need to get rid of him? I would not want to get involved with a partner unless I already had a good working relationship with him. It's a more serious union then marriage.


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## cleverchef (Jul 25, 2011)

From what I understand, 95% of restaurants that went look'n for the chef after the establishment was built, go under with-in 2 years.

I never could understand why investers would pour a ton of money, sometimes millions of $$ into a foodservice venture, and then don't even think about the chef or menu until the place is getting close to open. Most all of the successful restaurants had a chef as either the owner or a partner before the construction started.

Unless you find the right person, you are in for a roller coaster ride of chefs.

Also, you should probably get a good grand opening crowd, but that does not meen you will make profits the first year.

Hope you can either keep this chef in a paycheck for a year or the chef you find is already financially secure.

Good Luck


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

First remember this you and You are investing your money. The chef is investing his time and knowlege which to me would make it kind of equal. Sounds like to me you should hire a chef consultant to open place and do menues at the beginning then look to hire a working chef. if in fact the menu really requires a chef., for day to day of place. Meanwhile go around to operating wine bars and see what they are serving.Good Luck


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

ditto,

I suggest you remove the word partnership from your vocabulary immediately.

Check the statistical data on partnerships.

I know I had to learn the hard way back when. I got away cheap 115k.

If for some reason you go forward with an agreement. THE MOST IMPORTANTpart of a partnership agreement is how to disolve it.

panini


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## chrose (Nov 20, 2000)

panini said:


> ditto,
> 
> I suggest you remove the word partnership from your vocabulary immediately.
> 
> ...


That is post on. Exactly what I would say. My only difference is I lost less than Jeff, otherwise.... What starts out great can change as the personality that you knew when things were good can turn 180º when things go south even a little. Likewise things can turn 180º even if things go for the better.

Yes remove the word "Partner" My sister would agree too, and that wasn't in the food biz. Same thing...


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## el fuego (Aug 29, 2011)

I had a "Partner" had to buy him out (including the legal fees and stress of a 3-1/2 year lawsuit) I paid over 3x what he should have received..you don't want to know how much, it makes me sick to think about it.  DO NOT get a partner.  Hire someone that is capable of taking over the business and if that person meets your expectations you can both succeed at what you set out to accomplish.  Put everything in writing, including the consequences of lackluster performance....  With a restaurant, it starts with "buz", that may be difficult to quantify but, in the end, isn't really about the bottom line $$?


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## mid-chick (Aug 26, 2011)

I would hire your chef from a headhunter, specific to the business. If you are in no need of capital, you aren't in need of a partner/chef. Save yourself the headaches. If you know the scene where you are, you can put the word out....maybe make someone a better offer....many chefs are stolen


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Getting a Partner is like a marriage, Divorce is always possible. If business is making money most of the time it will work . If business goes downhill one will blame the other and it won't .


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

The way you make money in this business is my controls. hire a Chef, pay them well, have them control food and labor cost with incentives. The Chef will be working long hrs compared to the other partners, put him on the payroll. ...................ChefBillyB


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

10 responses and the O.P. , Floridaavenue isn't responding.

Can you respond to our advice?


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

I think you may have overwhelmed him.

All of you have provided extremely professional expert advice to this guy for free.

Experience is always the best teacher.

Let's see if he responds.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Considering he has only 2 post, I agree.


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## floridavenue (Aug 31, 2011)

Sorry guys for not replying quicker and yes a little overwhelmed, but taking it all in! So I immeidately realize that partner was a foolish word to use to professionals, it invokes bad thoughts on my end as well. The arrangement would better be characterized as a Joint Venture between two corporations severable unilaterally, by either, upon proper notice. I am experienced in creative business arrangements being in the bar business for over a decade and experiencing quite a few losses myself. I thought that the uniqueness of the offer may in essence "steal" a chef away that was looking to break out on his/her own with not much cost. The arrangement would be a two step process. The first step would entail hiring said Chef as an employee, on payroll (I am assuming my budgeted $800 week should suffice??) for a term of 90 day honeymoon. After this, if all goes well, I would set the Chef up with an LLC and we would enter a solid (I have a partner in another venue that is a corporate lawyer) JV agreeemnent, as detailed above. 

Finding a student was a thought. I have a friend that did something similar and it worked out well, he was probably lucky. 

I know this is a ton of detail. Just wanted you to know where my mind was. The venue is is not built yet. Construction just started. I have a few months but am just now hitting what seems to be the biggest deal.

Thanks for all the advice! I do appreciate it. Any other comments as well, I will now check the posts daily =)

J


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Um, I'm not in Florida, I'm in California, and I don't know what you mean by "chef". I do know that to hire what I consider a chef, i.e. one who has the experience and knowledge to manage all aspects of the BOH and probably well acquainted with FOH, you're going to have to more than double your target pay, I'm talking about a 20-25 year veteran with at least 5-10 years as chef, maybe a sous chef in an exceptional case. Anything less, unless you are really lucky, will probably lead to disaster.

BTW, $800/week for a chef is, um, about $10-$11/hour for the 70-80 hours (s)he'll put in, that's the same rate, albeit less hours, for  a junior line cook in my book.


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## floridavenue (Aug 31, 2011)

Thanks Pete - Point taken. I poked around online for Executive Chef going salaries in the Orlando area and they where in the 40s to 60's. The job market is not to great here in Orlando, especially outside of the resorts, but I will benchmark the salary off something else. I just went on Monster and it seems that many of the EC jobs are in the 50ks, so I will jump it up to 1k week (plus bonus) and see what sort of responses I get. Monster and Career Builder have some WYSISYG products that I will try for the search and I will ditch the Partner tag and be specific on the description of what I am looking for as an Executive Chef.

So I have this so far:

Upscale Wine Bar Opening:

Succesful small hospitality group seeks an Executive Chef with a minimum of 3-5 years of prior experience * prefereably with a high-volume and wine based background for a Prime Location in Orlando, Florida. As Executive Chef, it will be your primary responsibility to create unique cuisine and provide strong leadership all awhile delivering cost goals along with your vision for the venue's cuisine. You will be responsible for establishing standards for menu content, quality and presentation standards. Salary starts at 52k with a negotiable bonus structure. A Joint Venture Opportunity is also available for the right individual (no capital investment).
Hopefully, it does not sound entirely to freshmanish as above.....

J


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Now think about this.

Would you as an experienced business man trust the daily operation of a million dollar invstment to a student?

Also you want an Executive WORKING Chef. You do not want one of those guys who runs around with a clip board all day. And is also responsible for employee training.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

John,

Not being rude, just business.  Why are you so quick to throw ownership at someone. Is it for attracting them?

Honestly, If you do attract someone with the qualifications you're looking for. I think that ad would scare them off.

An experienced Chef should know what the job description is. He or She will provide you with experience, accomplishments, references etc.

You just need to do your due dill.

Just my 2 cents. but I read you're ad as inexperienced money to spend. Too many Chefs have gone down in flames with this type of agreement.

To much info. Sometimes the bigger fish are attracted to only half a worm.


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## thetincook (Jun 14, 2002)

panini said:


> Not being rude, just business. Why are you so quick to throw ownership at someone. Is it for attracting them?


Except, he's not throwing ownership at them, not really. From his description, it looks like he's planning on contracting out management of the wine bar to his exec chef.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Not sure really. You can't sell to yourself.


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## floridavenue (Aug 31, 2011)

Great point on the issue of to much wording. Less is most likely better since the offer is better explained in dialogue as opposed to text. TinCook has it right in that I am trying to attract a Chef that will manage the Wine Bar and thus share in the profits. Ideally this will incentivice better and attract a Chef with more of an entrpreneurial spirit. 

Panini you have seen many types of these agreements take Chefs down in flames? Was there a common overarching flaw to them?

I am also curious as to the thought process that it provokes. Is the agreement not attractive becuase of a perceived weakness in stability?

J


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Floridavenue,

I'm not Panini, but I'm going to jump in.

Profit sharing can be a wonderful incentive, as long as the one sharing in the profit has full control over all factors affecting his/her contribution to the profit. If, in the instant situation, the _chef_ has control of *all* expenditures, i.e. food, beverages, labor, utilities, advertising, etc., there's a good chance for success. If _anyone_ else has the ability to directly affect the profitability, then the foundation for problems has been laid.

With regards to _no capital investment required_, IMHO, this approach is fraught with danger. Yes, you may a young, hungry, talented individual with an entrepreneurial spirit who will perform outstandingly. Conversely, you may attract the _what the h3ll, it doesn't cost me anything to try_ type who will spend all your money and leave you holding the bag, just like someone who buys a house/car with nothing down and no payments for 90 days, _if it doesn't work out, I'll just walk away_ mentality.

Capital investment doesn't have to mean *cash*. It should be something that the candidate will put at risk, i.e. deferred income (say $1,600/week, 50% cash, balance from profits after one year), promissory note to purchase LLC, there are numerous creative ways to snap on _golden handcuffs _or extract a _pound of flesh_, something to create a *strong *incentive to stick around.

To me, regardless as to the legal structure, a partnership/joint venture is like a marriage without conjugal benefits, there is no _love_ or _lust_ to hold it together during rough times, therefore, it is imperative that this shortcoming be clearly and mutually understood and some form of substitution for conjugal benefits be defined from the get go.


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## thetincook (Jun 14, 2002)

Meh, I think the OP is either getting carried away in the excitement of doing a deal, or is trying to pull a fast one.


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## floridavenue (Aug 31, 2011)

thetincook said:


> Meh, I think the OP is either getting carried away in the excitement of doing a deal, or is trying to pull a fast one.


No fast one is afoot, just trying to navigate an admittedly difficult process. I am a bit detail oriented and have alot to learn in a short time, thats all...... You have to love the hospitality business. You will see me again around the forums and will respond to the posts quicker than the original post.

PeteMcCraken - Great Post!

Thanks again everyone for the great feedback and straight shooting

J


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## chefhans (Jun 27, 2011)

Foodpum, words well spoken.


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## chefhans (Jun 27, 2011)

You are correct on your points. I think this offer is bait, hook, line and sinker.


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## floridavenue (Aug 31, 2011)

Im the new guy to the forum- not the bad guy... sorry my questions resemble fishing tackle, just questions and my comments are now timely


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

John,

  Remember you're in a public forum. Each poster has individual  opinions. You just need to filter through them.

No one speaks for the members. Use your tools in viewing posts, like their bio, time here, # of posts etc.

Trust me, there is decades of experience around here. Some have been here 10+ years. Also remember

most are in this business and don't get online all the time. I know I used the fishing comment but meant nothing by it.

So just hang in there. You are in the right place.

Also, there is always a little hesitancy's in the beginning. Over the years we've had hundreds come here to solicit,

do work or school projects etc.

Panini


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Floridaavenue,

Like pannini siad, keep a thick skin.

Most of us have been in this business for decades, and every one of us has encounterd a position like you describe.  Some work out, many don't.

Five years ago I sold my catering biz and found myself looking for work. Interviewed a start-up looking for a Chef, 70 seat dining room and a broom closet for a kitchen--no way that would even pass fire let alone health.  Another had leased a kitchen and was providing f&b services for a real cute 120 room boutique hotel, needed a Chef but wouldn't hire one, wanted me to work 3 days a week and "kinda keep a handle on things". 

Everyone here has been "let go" when it was profitable to do so: Once the kitchen was set up and running, once a few key staff had been trained up, once the f&l costs were low enough for the boss to get a bonus, etc. etc.

We're just naturally cautious and suspicious, that's all.


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## floridavenue (Aug 31, 2011)

Thanks guys, I thought I was just doing something wrong. I have alligator skin, so it kind of just flows off - just really didnt know what to think of the comments, lol.. I understand now! I am legit with multiple venues - but - this is my first foray into food. I am also saavy on how many owners play games like what was said. I am hoping my cards on the table/convertible JV approach works. I know it is dependant upon the candidate too. My partner is a lawyer, so the paperwork will be tight and it took us a long time for us to build a good rep, so whomever that is in the running only needs to do - is check around. Reputation is a big deal in this biz, as everyone knows. I will post some of the recent goings on after I start interviews to memorialize some of the hiring drama for a nice little feedback loop. 

J


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## thetincook (Jun 14, 2002)

Lemme ask you something, have you used this business structure in any of your other operations?

If you came to me, and told me "Congrats, you're hired. By the way, you'll need to form a LLC..." I would run, and I suspect anyone smart enough to successfully run a business would too.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

FloridaVenue,

In light of you comment that this is your first venture into food, allow me to suggest that you add a consulting Chef to your stable of advisers?

I'm sure there are numerous qualified individuals in your area, as well as several here and in other places, that would provide you the necessary advice, just as your attorney does for legal questions.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

J,

The more arrows you have in your quiver the better. I absolutely agree with some type of food consultant that has your success in the for front.

This is a great time to expand or grow your business. The costs are low. You seem to be informed business wise. You are much better

off bouncing your questions off a professional with no immediate interest. 60-80K a year is going to get all your questions answered the way he or she thinks you want to hear.

   Don't go by the general statistics. 95% percent of food projects don't go under in the first two years. It's a myth. It is extremely high though. Maybe 55%. What you also won't hear, is that a large percentage o fnew food projects are in the black within the first 120 days.

  Also, John. You won't to hear this but. Having the legal upper hand means nothing. Paperwork means nothing. The recovery rates on disputes

in this industry are not the norm. 

You need to look behind peoples eyes. The first hint of anything going wrong you have to MOVE!!!! There are no meetings. There are no sit downs.

Now a days you have to address your problems yesterday.

Your friend

Panini

I'm excited for you.


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## floridavenue (Aug 31, 2011)

That is where the interesting part is going to come tincook but I would help set the LLC up, get the FEI and go through the complete steps and have the new hire incorporated at the table before he left (Florida has a great online system). Your point is well taken. If I come across the right Chef I will also be open to keeping things simple and just "hiring" him to get the venue open and see how things work with the relationship as some time goes on and show him/her how it would work.  

Thanks again Pete and Panini, a consultant would be good to bounce stuff off of. Ill look into it. Also, human resources, part science and part luck - getting behind those eyes is so key and so hard. I will use credit and criminal checks to get a guage on anyone in the running - the rest is gut and vodoo, lol. 

J


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## flowner (Sep 11, 2011)

Wow, thank you everyone for such great advice to floridavenue.  I look forward to hearing more about how their search goes.  I am also located in Florida, but in the Northwest tip and just passed my first year in business.  I've owned several businesses in the past, but never a food service establishment and oh my, the learning curve has been quite steep for me and my optimism.  We are a 40-seat combination coffee bar/wine bar with a super small kitchen.  We've got lots of heart and our patrons have responded well to our concept, dining space and location. 

The issues plauging us are high labor costs (primarliy due to the barista bar) and the lack of a dinner menu or a chef who is willing to tackle one in the tiny kitchen.  Without this menu, our sales slump at night except on weekends and Sunday brunch.  We've been running our lunch menu at night with the addition of gourmet burgers on weekends.  The current menu primarily consists of gourmet paninis, salads, soup and high end apps like cheese platters, marinated olives, etc. 

I stumbled across this forum because I too, was interested in offering a Chef Partner position to the right fit.  I need a Chef who truly takes ownership and can see past today or even this month in building a successful venture.  I don't mind splitting any profit 50/50 but I need a real creative ally who also shares the commitment and care 50/50.  As one of you so eloquently stated, I need a leader. 

Since I'm limited in what I can pay at first ($25K plus monthly bonus), it's difficult to find someone of any caliber or personal investment.  I also don't know the best place to look.  I know this is a very low amount, but the hours are also lower than typical (45 hrs a week and 2 days off), and our area of FL is a smaller town with lower cost of living.  It is still far lower than I woulld like to pay in salary but financial limitations keep me from offering anymore to start.  Within the next 6 months, I have a Head Line Cook leaving for college and can allocate more salary/hours to the Chef position.  I also think the monthly bonus plan could make a big difference in overall compensation within the first 90-days.  The Chef would have full control over menu creation, costing, ordering, etc and my full support.

I have invested my lifeblood into this business and still have yet to pay myself, while I'm there every day making sure our staff and our customers are happy.  I know this is what I signed up for but it's time for a real change and not the treading water.  I need a Chef to join forces with me to turn things around.  If I don't offer some sort of ownership or equity, how could I attract the quality individual I need?  What should I be looking for?  Or am I just dillusional?

Any suggestions on what I would post in my ad?  I need to list the open postion as soon as possible but I want to be smart and realistic.

Thank you for your time-

Another FL operator in need of guidance


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## gavpuig (Jun 17, 2013)

Hello John,

I am seeking for expertise advice, I am looking for a Joint venture looking to expand this now successful running and unique idea to about 3 more locations.

High mark up product chic unique in its class brand, with a great concept that we are already seeing rewards.  The location has a drive-thru, Online ordering, catering, and corporate catering, runs on a great marketing campaign full with exclusive reward, promotions, coupons deals.

This is my first restaurant, Me and 5 star chef began working on this project 1 year ago utilizing our small capital and outside finance and venture into making magic out of nothing just a goal and an Idea.

Thanks,

Gavriel


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## rowantree (Aug 24, 2011)

So, floridavenue,now a few years have passed--has anything come of this venture?


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## chefwanted (Oct 31, 2013)

I had a similar question and have read thru all the advice. Care to share what you did?


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

LOL

Didn't pay attention to the dates, gave FP a rep and then noticed a post from panini.......THEN checked the date.

Oh well foodpump's advice was thoughtful and remains relevant to this day.

mimi


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## chfrob (May 30, 2013)

Hi yall

So I myself am an experienced well seasoned pastry chef. I opened up my dream house and have always been clear about the concept behind it, however the local market hasnt and in that I have become confused muyself! Originally and still now we are clarifying and slowly very slowly distinguishing ourselves from others, EVERYTHING IS A PASTRY, savory or sweet, I am NOT a Savory CHEF and have little to no short order cooking experience which is what people want. My cafe is an ecclectic pastry house that serves coffee with subtle southern notes (Chicory Coffee, beignet, and a few other new orleans inspired desserts). We some how were branded as"Louisianan Cajun/Creole" I am from New Orleans and moved away to get far from the same menu printed up on every restaurant and to create modernistic style desserts. I designed and built the cafe accordingly, the decor is modern yet classic and the kitchen is equiped to produce PASTRY not lunch to go orders. My uncle who is the cafes investor is impatient and wants to sell his shares of the business. It seems like all I do now is everything that i hate doing! I need a GM or Chef to partner up with and launch this place into space and allow me to concentrate on my production needs as I am having to put it all on my baker who doesnt do fine pastry at all... any advice on where i should turn to? the plan is to sell 39% shresand the remaining 61% will remain with myself, uncle and family to ensure majority shares. Advice? PLEASE? I need other owner/operators to speak out as I am tired of listening to every tom dick and harry and their opinions that have done nothing but cause severe confusion.

Sincerly 

the MAD chef


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## sojome2 (Nov 7, 2016)

I am in a " similar " position , I have a concept , financing mechanism in place , a unique supply chain for seafood ingredients  and  need expertise to:  build a menu that is  simply to execute for fast casual ;  capable to train technique of preparation to the floor; standardize training  and guide the activation of food side of the business  at its inception .. I have a long history in " food ,CPG  and franchise but need a creative worker who wants to step in .. consultants not wanted !


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

The way most succesful, long term entrepeneur/Chef relationships start off is like this:

Future entrepeneur works at a restaurant. Runs into some cook, a quasi relationship is made. Both parties eye each other for a few months, they continue to work, saving their pennies. At last the day comes when the entrepeneur approaches the cook and asks him to come on board--starting date to be determined later. Both continue to work untill a lease has been signed. Thats D-day and both will have to quit and work non stop getting the new business started. Good ones usually take 4-9 mths of planning, both parties contribute--the Chef with menu and then kitchen layout, then getting equipment and trades quotes. 

The best run and best organized restaurants/hotels have the Chef included and working as soon as the lease is signed. I can not stress this enough.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

sojome2 said:


> I am in a " similar " position , I have a concept , financing mechanism in place , a unique supply chain for seafood ingredients and need expertise to: build a menu that is simply to execute for fast casual ; capable to train technique of preparation to the floor; standardize training and guide the activation of food side of the business at its inception .. I have a long history in " food ,CPG and franchise but need a creative worker who wants to step in .. consultants not wanted !


Can you move ?

mimi


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## sojome2 (Nov 7, 2016)

​Mimi .. to where texas ?

joe


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

The Houston 'burbs...north and west.

Lots of small business seeing a comeback and if oil bounces back the way we hope there will be a boom.

Dallas is always a good choice as well.

mimi


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