# the 3 second rule



## fryguy (Sep 2, 2009)

What your take on it?????


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## prairiechef (May 22, 2010)

umm.

no.

I've had to delay banquet service due to dropped food. or change menus completely and offer a discounted price due to screw ups.

At home? Do what you will. At work? no.


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## beecher (Jun 9, 2010)

Kinda disturbing that the question is even asked. Thank you, PrairieChef for your appropriate response.


PrairieChef said:


> umm.
> 
> no.
> 
> ...


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## rat (Mar 2, 2006)

It is not worth it it in terms of respecting the food and the respect of your co-workers and customers. If someone saw you doing that, they would remember you forever as the guy/girl who would serve crap off the floor. Floor pepper is not in my spice rack.

Did anyone see the Hells Kitchen episode when the employee put the chicken wing back in the fryer in front of Ramsey?? That was a good one.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Actually, Rat, it was a Kitchen Nightmares episode. But, yeah, pretty disgusting---especially in that place, which seemingly hadn't been cleaned since the place opened.


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## bazza (Apr 2, 2007)

landmcatering said:


> We actually use the 5 second rule at our place, never had a problem


Ah, you must have caught the bacteria napping! Another five seconds and you would have contaminated the food. Sheesh!!!


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## landmcatering (Jul 7, 2010)

Bazza said:


> Ah, you must have caught the bacteria napping! Another five seconds and you would have contaminated the food. Sheesh!!!


Just bring it back up to 180 and nothing's going to live through that, plus we cater out of our house and when we have an event we make sure the dogs go outside.


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## rat (Mar 2, 2006)

Sorry to post again but they did a segment of mythbusters about the 3 second rule. Apparently it did not matter on the amount of time food was exposed.


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## landmcatering (Jul 7, 2010)

They actually let it sit for 10 seconds with no problems


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

Problems or not if it hits the floor at home or at work it's garbage unless the dog (at home) is interested and wants to eat it.  Otherwise into the food waste it goes.   No matter how clean the floors are they're still dirty and whatever is on your shoes that you picked up in the washroom has followed you into the kitchen so no way.  Floor=garbage.


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## beecher (Jun 9, 2010)

landmcatering said:


> We actually use the 5 second rule at our place, never had a problem





landmcatering said:


> They actually let it sit for 10 seconds with no problems


I'm so glad You're in Florida, and I'm in California.


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## cabotvt (May 5, 2009)

I still have kimshi outback

There is no such rule on the floor out the door


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## philosophos (Jun 22, 2010)

The Mythbusters episode, much like home cooking, didn't account for hundreds of people per day over the life of a successful restaurant. In a few years on the line, you could cook as many meals as you'd eat in a lifetime. One bout of food poisoning by ones own hand in a lifetime for the average person; no big deal. When it's someone else's health and your reputation, when you're serving enough meals for several lifetimes in a serious career, it's downright unacceptable.

The Mythbusters test also didn't include a restaurant environment. What happens when a little chicken juice dribbles on the floor and it gets missed for a while on a busy night?

Even beyond that, it's a matter of pure respect to me. I could not disrespect anyone who I serve in my home enough to do that. How much better should you treat those who support your livelihood, and choose to pay for the food you make?


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## titomike (May 20, 2009)

Off topic....Anyone ever managed to stop their kid doing it?

There's Grandma's addage "Eat a peck of dirt before your 5" referring to allowing a child's immune system to develop from an early age. This is backed up by two studies I've read done here where it was also found kids were ingesting cleaner residue in fastidiously clean residences which actually killed useful bacteria found in the gut. I think Manuka honey gained its popularity for reestablishing those colonies....

As stated above....unprofessional? Yes. The same risk is there as with servers handling cash & then your plate.

Oh yeah, dont eat the bar nuts....urban legend has it that a test once revealed 12 different urine samples in one bowl!


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## phillipo (Jul 5, 2010)

*Indeed-i aggree,come on - a Chef at SOU CHEF level ought be leading by example-if the sou chef is seen to pick things up-then so will the students/Trainee's.*

*When repremanded,presumeably by the Head Chef or Manager /owner,i can just hear: "Well its ok for the SOU Chef to do it-so it must be ok for ME!!"*

*PROFFESSIONAL STANDARDS PLEASE!! Yuk*

*(oops-i forgot it was just a question -im sure "Fryguy" does not serve dropped food at all-sorry dude!)*


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## caterchef (Oct 12, 2009)

ED : Here's some SHARK BAIT for you /img/vbsmilies/smilies/laser.gif


landmcatering said:


> They actually let it sit for 10 seconds with no problems


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## iplaywithfire (Jul 5, 2010)

It'd take me less than three seconds to kick anyone who thinks the three second rule is a good guideline out of my kitchen.


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## satchboogie (Jul 4, 2010)

In a restaurant you have to follow strict rules when it comes to food safety, so any dropped food MUST go into the trash.     Now it is true that most dry foods won't pick up anything bad that quickly and reheating the food will kill anything, but it's simply a BAD practice from a customer stand point.  One bad review and your place could be toast.


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## gunnar (Apr 3, 2008)

I've dropped a cucumber on the floor, whole , washed it and used it. Same with a loaf of bread, it was in the bag, fell off the counter picked it up, wiped off the outside of the bag and moved on. Got bumped at the panini machine cause a server is too busy talking over their shoulder (look where you are going idiot) dropped two sandwiches to the floor...... those hit the trash and had to be remade.

now then as far as germs and bacteria go, HAHAHAHA HA! you are not going to get rid of them, ever.  wash your hands and as soon as you turn around that .01 percent the antibacterial soap didn't kill has bred into bigger numbers. Make a sandwich it's in the sandwich ... all the little lies we tell ourselves are not going to change a thing.


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## lisacap (Jul 8, 2010)

If you drop food, it goes into the trash. There is no 3-second rule! I was watching Kitchen Nightmares on BBC the other day, and Chef Gordon Ramsay saw the chef drop a chicken wing on the floor and put it back into the fryer. When asked about this, the chef said, "The fryer sterilizes it!" WHAT? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

_______________

_*Bringing back great food to the family table, inspired by *__*Lisa Caponigri*_


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

landmcatering said:


> We actually use the 5 second rule at our place, never had a problem


I get that kind of statement from employees from time to time.

My response always was:

Do you want to be around and take responsibility when a problem _*does *_arrise?


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## scotts (Mar 1, 2010)

So...

During a busy service you notice that you are one-shy on your 8ounce tenderloin.  It's well done and you need to get it in the oven ASAP.  You know you have a tenderloin cleaned and ready to be cut, just put the knife to it.  You go to your meat station which is impeccable.  You put your knife to it, which is impeccable. You are carrying your 8 ounce piece to the line when all of a sudden it slips out of your hands completely by accident.  It hits the floor, and for a split second all time stands still. 

As quickly as possible, which is usually measured in 10ths of a split second in the culinary world,you pick it up. 

Now, knowing that this particular piece costs the place about 5-6 bucks, and the rest of your tenderloin is at your meat station, and all your cooks are watching, do you (a) throw it out saying "well, it's ok. I don't pay for it

                                                (b) wash it off under cold running water, inspect it thoroughly and cook it, chastising yourself all the way for being such a clumsy oaf, or

                                                (c)Throw it out, and tell your cooks do as I say not as I do

Sorry, but accidents happen.  Yes the 3 second rule is a joke, but when it gets right down to brass tacks, you don't want to set an example that it is ok to throw out everything that hits the floor .  When you are dealing with ever-rising costs, and razor thin profit margins, the garbage can can go hungry.


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## beecher (Jun 9, 2010)

*OK.....Now I'm glad I don't eat in Canada OR Florida!*


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## scotts (Mar 1, 2010)

Yes that is a sigh of relief form both of us.  Keep chucking out your expensive product and see how fast bankruptcy hits you.  You should be used to that.


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## gypsy2727 (Mar 9, 2010)

iplaywithfire said:


> It'd take me less than three seconds to kick anyone who thinks the three second rule is a good guideline out of my kitchen.


Thank-you Play with Fire

Could not have put it better.....I would say "get your dumb &$$ off my line and take the meat on the floor with you for your dinner!"


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## cabotvt (May 5, 2009)

I here you on that one GYPSY and to add:  if the Chef did that more then once it take me less then 3 seconds to rid myself of my service at that place. I want to work with proper training not MCd's Food. On the floor and to use the word especially raw meat goes into the trash. Learn to do it right, lack of discipline is no excuse for poor performance.I know the 40-140 rule however, is there a piece of glass in your meat know from the floor that slide over from the dish room, Oh you doid'nt htink of that one did you, see how fast your go under when that happens. I'll take my chances with 6 bucks every other month.


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## philosophos (Jun 22, 2010)

Scott,


By lowering your standards to feeding people meat off the ground, you are contributing to the problem of operating a restaurant honestly and within budget. You are contributing to the problem with that behavior.

Tell me, what happens when someone goes out for a smoke break in a back alley, gets a nice residue of fluids on their shoe, and tracks a little in on to the floor? Are you aware that it only takes about .1ml/kg of ethylene glycol to send someone to the hospital? That's 2ml for a child. Do you really want to sit and guess how much it would take to break the NOAEL and leave a customer feeling ill for the next day? Take a read through the labels on your cleaning products. Glance over the list of ingredients in pesticides. Can I wipe a little residue of that on to your meat, rinse it off, then serve it to you? As Cabotvt said, what about glass?

But you're in BC, and outside of the Vancouver area; I can't be too hard on you. I know what sort of disgusting practices are common place there, as it's where I grew up. Customers don't hit you with a lawsuit nearly so quickly as in the US, so nobody sues for dangerous food. I can't count the number of horror stories from kitchens that I heard growing up that didn't end with people out of their job and a place shut down. Glass in the food, strange puddles of toxic gunk, cooked burgers scooped off the floor, cardboard attached to fried frozen food, rotten meat being served up, the list goes on. I am actually more frightened of the food in most of small town BC than what I'd get off a taco truck in Idaho. Please, do your part to try to raise these standards; don't give in to the crap that goes on.


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## prairiechef (May 22, 2010)

You take the $6 chunk of meat, record it's weight and toss it.

At the end of the month, it becomes a "wastage" expense and is accounted for as such.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Would you EAT  it or FEED  it to YOUR  MOM?  Studies have been done on this so called 3 second rule and contrary to what you may have been told . The bacteria count after 3 seconds was almost as high as something on floor for 10 minutes. Keeping in mind 10 minute one has been out of fridge longer.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

Titomike said:


> Oh yeah, dont eat the bar nuts....urban legend has it that a test once revealed 12 different urine samples in one bowl!


I've heard the same thing about the bowls of open dinner mints you see on your way out of some places. That was just disgusting!


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## bazza (Apr 2, 2007)

landmcatering said:


> Just bring it back up to 180 and nothing's going to live through that, plus we cater out of our house and when we have an event we make sure the dogs go outside.


DOGS!! Are you kidding? /img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif

It is well known that these practises take place and people like you give catering a bad name. I am not in the habit of badmouthing others in the trade but you spoil it for the rest of us. It is only a matter of time before you have a food safety issue and believe me you will.

Success in catering is built on trust and reputation, I wonder who your clients are and how your food is recieved. 3 seconds, 5 seconds or 180 degrees aint gonna get rid of dog hairs.


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## bazza (Apr 2, 2007)

PrairieChef said:


> You take the $6 chunk of meat, record it's weight and toss it.
> 
> At the end of the month, it becomes a "wastage" expense and is accounted for as such.


Exactly, and how much food hits the floor anyway? If you are that clumsy you should not be handling expensive product.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

OK, maybe I'm slow (I KNOW I'm old, so don't go there!), but I've always though the "three second rule" was for how fast an "offender" got out the door!

Three seconds or less doesn't give the CHEF time to find a pot/kettle/pan to throw!


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## halmstad (May 17, 2010)

I find this topic very interesting, considering the majority of meat (chicken, beef, pork) that we buy as a country of American citizens come from overused overworked "farms" where the animals live in far worse conditions than the floors of our professional kitchens. They live, sleep and eat in an atmosphere that is clouded, literally, in their own poo. And all of us choose to eat them for better or worse. Who cares about e. coli or mad cow as long as the fda and usda say they are approved. Unless you are going and buying directly from the farmer, you are probably eating something off of the floor.

This is not not saying that I would plate something after it hit the tile, but please, get over yourselves. The kitchen floor is the LEAST of your worries....


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## halmstad (May 17, 2010)

I have to emphasize that I personally wouldn't plate something after it hit the floor. Maybe I'm way off base, but I don't think it's the worst thing in the world.

Professionally speaking, I wouldn't have it or even speak of it seriously in my kitchen. But all in all, i'm sure we've all eaten things far worse.

This is why I cook at home.

Dirty cooks...../img/vbsmilies/smilies/smoking.gif


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## caterchef (Oct 12, 2009)

halmstad said:


> I find this topic very interesting, considering the majority of meat (chicken, beef, pork) that we buy as a country of American citizens come from overused overworked "farms" where the animals live in far worse conditions than the floors of our professional kitchens. They live, sleep and eat in an atmosphere that is clouded, literally, in their own poo. And all of us choose to eat them for better or worse. Who cares about e. coli or mad cow as long as the fda and usda say they are approved. Unless you are going and buying directly from the farmer, you are probably eating something off of the floor.
> 
> This is not not saying that I would plate something after it hit the tile, but please, get over yourselves. The kitchen floor is the LEAST of your worries....


Have you been in or watched america's processing plants latley? They are the cleanest in the world. Granted it is not a place I would want to have lunch but, their floors are cleaned probably more often than yours. They are video monitored 24hours a day by the USDA.

Sounds like you have been watching the wrong TV channels. A lot of the stuff you see on TV is staged to improve their ratings. If you want to see something horrible go overseas.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

halmstad said:


> I find this topic very interesting, considering the majority of meat (chicken, beef, pork) that we buy as a country of American citizens come from overused overworked "farms" where the animals live in far worse conditions than the floors of our professional kitchens. They live, sleep and eat in an atmosphere that is clouded, literally, in their own poo. And all of us choose to eat them for better or worse. Who cares about e. coli or mad cow as long as the fda and usda say they are approved. Unless you are going and buying directly from the farmer, you are probably eating something off of the floor.
> 
> This is not not saying that I would plate something after it hit the tile, but please, get over yourselves. The kitchen floor is the LEAST of your worries....


So what? If you are a professional then you hold up your end of the bargain. Invoking the three second rule just tells me you don't care about your customers. If you like your customers otherwise you will care what you serve them.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

To all of those who argue for the 3 second rule, I strongly suggest you work in an open kitchen for a few weeks.

If you cater out of your home, please don't tell anyone about it.  Several ex-employees of mine were doing this and bragged about it, I called the health inspector on them and they weren't bragging anymore.  They also knew why my prices were different from theirs afterwards.....

If I ever came up with the excuse that I served floor spiced food because there wasn't enough of the item, I'd have been fired for not keeping par-levels and not ordering in a "proper manner".

To all of those of us who've been in the business long enough, we know what kind of damage one single hair in food can do.

To all of those who own pets, pet hair stays in the house for months after the animal is gone, and I have had pet hair in my kitchen at work, most likely brought in unwittingly  from employees.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

I can't believe this is up for discussion even.  Way to go.  Some of you forget that people who dine in restaurants read also this forum.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Acturally, Kuan, I feel the opposite. It's precisely because restaurant users read this that it's good, as it shows how infrequently such abuses take place.

What we have is, basically, one "professional" who sees nothing wrong with the practice, and a whole bunch of others not only denigrating the idea, but taking him to task for such behavior.

I'd say that sends the right message.


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## fryguy (Sep 2, 2009)

WOW!!!!!! now we have a lively board!!!!    good thing I did'nt bring up the topic of hiring illegal workers, that ought to be good food for thought!!!! so to speak......I have done it ( 3 second rule) in the WAY past when I first started out 30 years ago but now the item would be tossed and recorded on the waste sheet. THese are differnt times......and I think the guy with the dogs was joking ( i hope)


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

I worked under a chef a few years ago and he shared a story with me about Alfredo Sauce.  He was just starting out in the business and he was making Alfredo Sauce for dinner service.  He put the pot on the floor (not sure why the pot of sauce was on the floor.. I think maybe to put it into inserts for the steam table?) turned to get something and on his way back around put his boot into the sauce.  He was young and cocky at the time and put the pot back on the stove,  brought up the temperature and served it anyway.   I must have looked horrified (he was making Alfredo Sauce at the time he was telling me this story) because right away he said that he'd never ever do that today and if any of his staff did that he'd rip them a new one.


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## cabotvt (May 5, 2009)

I would like to waste these kilo bytes to thank all the chefs, writers and diners on here that are against serving on the floor.

                                                            Thank you for you professionalism


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## greyeaglem (Apr 17, 2006)

Leeniek, I'm not sure why that guy had the Alfredo on the floor, but believe it or not they used to teach us to do that. If you were straining stock from one pot to the other, they'd tell you to put the one with the strainer on the floor as it was easier to control the pouring and not as hard on your back as working on a table would be. Doubt they'd teach anyone that now, but it was odd how your story reminded me of it. I'd forgotten all about how we used to do that.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

I remember waaaay back when, when the dinosaurs roamed, we used to sprinkle sawdust on the floor.  Kind of made sense too, all spills and crud were soaked up, and at the end of the shift, the sawdust was swept up, thrown out, and new sawdust sprinkled down.

Needless to say, the "3 second rule" was never mentioned......


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

Good question for my Employment App, "What do you think of the 3 second rule when working in a restaurant kitchen" if they answer it wrong, its a quick BYE BYE...............Chef BillyB


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

Good one, Bill! 

Greyeagle, I can see how pouring something for straining would be easier with the pot on the floor and maybe that was why that chef had the sauce down there.  I do all of my pouring in the sink(not in the dishpit but in the kitchen).  If I miss my target at first or there is splashing cleanup is fast and easy.


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## greyeaglem (Apr 17, 2006)

Back when Pump and I were wandering around with the dinosaurs, (when espanol was still a mother sauce) the dish pit sinks were the only ones you had. There was no such thing as a prep or hand sink. The two or (if you were in a really modern kithen) three section dish sink was it. We never used saw dust, but I still throw salt on the floor when the crew strings too much grease on it. Gives you traction so you don't fall. They used to complain about their knees hurting (these are college guys who snowboard, etc.) and I tell them if they'd keep the oil in the fryer instead of on the floor, they wouldn't have that problem. Meanwhile, hand me the salt.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Cat litter is good on floor near fryer. Dustless typr


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## gypsy2727 (Mar 9, 2010)

greyeaglem said:


> Back when Pump and I were wandering around with the dinosaurs, (when espanol was still a mother sauce) the dish pit sinks were the only ones you had. There was no such thing as a prep or hand sink. The two or (if you were in a really modern kithen) three section dish sink was it. We never used saw dust, but I still throw salt on the floor when the crew strings too much grease on it. Gives you traction so you don't fall. They used to complain about their knees hurting (these are college guys who snowboard, etc.) and I tell them if they'd keep the oil in the fryer instead of on the floor, they wouldn't have that problem. Meanwhile, hand me the salt.


yes I use salt too .....and we did't have "Caution Wet Floor" signs either. The irony is I have tripped over those f%#&*ing

"safety" signs and never anything else in the kitchen! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif


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## mandarin25 (Oct 2, 2009)

Hey! Dont bash all of Canada! I am very strict about food hitting the floor, the way I look at it, if they are dropping that much meat on the floor that it affects your cost, then maybe the way that they are transporting it from station to station needs to be looked at, or maybe they need to be fired... because clearly they dont belong in a kitchen if they are constantly dropping food... Just my opinion.


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

kuan said:


> I can't believe this is up for discussion even. Way to go. Some of you forget that people who dine in restaurants read also this forum.


Kuan,

You are so right ! Hard to believe its up for debate.....sad, just sad.


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## halmstad (May 17, 2010)

I do not in any way condone this practice. And I don't want anyone here to think that I think it's ok. I was just writing to write an argument. If I ever saw someone do that in my kitchen, they would be out on the spot. I like to stir the pot as it were...


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## cheesenbacon (Jul 19, 2010)

PrairieChef said:


> At home? Do what you will. At work? F**k no.


Enough said.


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## theages (Feb 7, 2010)

I agree with the "F**k No!" stance.  If one of my staff questions me on it, I bring him into the mens bathroom, step in the puddle under the urinal, go back to the line, step on the floor, place a peice of scrap meat in the spot, then ask them to eat it.  They get the point and don't ask again.


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## cheesenbacon (Jul 19, 2010)

Theages said:


> I agree with the "F**k No!" stance. If one of my staff questions me on it, I bring him into the mens bathroom, step in the puddle under the urinal, go back to the line, step on the floor, place a peice of scrap meat in the spot, then ask them to eat it. They get the point and don't ask again.


That's hilarious! Nice technique. 8^)


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## scotts (Mar 1, 2010)

Lively little discussion. Just read my post, perhaps I should wait till i'm sober before I post things. LOL  Oh well.  Any way folks, I am out of this thread, and am moving on to another hot topic.  Have fun,and behave.

By the way, I don't "Practice" this, and Canada doesn't "practice" this.

I apologize to anyone I may have offended.  I am a strict professional, and I do believe in sanitary practices.  'nuff said.

Love to all  Peace out, and try not to be too stressed out.


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## aric87 (Aug 6, 2010)

greyeaglem said:


> Leeniek, I'm not sure why that guy had the Alfredo on the floor, but believe it or not they used to teach us to do that. If you were straining stock from one pot to the other, they'd tell you to put the one with the strainer on the floor as it was easier to control the pouring and not as hard on your back as working on a table would be. Doubt they'd teach anyone that now, but it was odd how your story reminded me of it. I'd forgotten all about how we used to do that.


The kitchen I started in used to do chowder and bisque and they did alot of pouring and mixing at floor level. They always put the pot on a bread tray or sheet pan to keep it off the floor, and cardboard under it to catch the spill. Of course, they were making five gallon pots of chowder base, so there is really no way they could have done it any other way, but they kept it off the actual floor. Being that I have never taken a sanitation class (yet), can someone verify whether that is actually a legit sanitary practice?

A side note, one of the places i work had a quality insurance inspection on monday.... BoH had two infractions, one was not keeping cold temps (there were prepped onions not in a cooler) and the other was one person not washing his hands between changing his gloves. FoH had 6... haha 2.63 doesn't buy good help nowadays.


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## tufftruck (Nov 2, 2010)

Our local food code, and I think the national standard states that any food needs to be at least 6 inches off of the floor. But I would guess that most chefs/cooks, at some point in their career, have transfered food into a pot on the floor. I think that a bread pan or sheet tray would be fairly acceptable as long as you weren't being inspected that day


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Transfering/straining liquids into a pot onto the floor is one thing--the pot goes onto the stove.

Sheet pans,on the other hand go onto countertops, fridge racks, tray trolleys etc, where they can contaminate.

Don't believe me?  Sprinkle a little cocoa powder on the countertop, place a sheetpan or two on the mess, and be prepared to clean up cooca powder in every concievable area for the next two weeks..........


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## macgregor (Oct 21, 2010)

caterchef said:


> Have you been in or watched america's processing plants latley? They are the cleanest in the world. Granted it is not a place I would want to have lunch but, their floors are cleaned probably more often than yours. They are video monitored 24hours a day by the USDA.
> 
> Sounds like you have been watching the wrong TV channels. A lot of the stuff you see on TV is staged to improve their ratings. If you want to see something horrible go overseas.


They are not the cleanest in America. Why would I want to escalate the discussion to include the world?

Can you explain to me what happens to a cows digestion from eating corn all day? Do I need to get vulgar to make a point?

The wrong TV channels lol. I dont watch TV. Maybe you have the wrong rose colored glasses on?

Maybe you want some facts? Straight from the USDA, read on.

"According to the USDA's new report:


> _"Based on our review, we found that the national residue program is not accomplishing its mission of monitoring the food supply for harmful residues. Together, FSIS, FDA, and EPA have not established thresholds for many dangerous substances (e.g., copper or dioxin3), which has resulted in meat with these substances being distributed in commerce._
> 
> _Additionally, FSIS does not attempt to recall meat, even when its tests have confirmed the excessive presence of veterinary drugs."_
> 
> ...


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## macgregor (Oct 21, 2010)

kuan said:


> So what? If you are a professional then you hold up your end of the bargain. Invoking the three second rule just tells me you don't care about your customers. If you like your customers otherwise you will care what you serve them.


Your concern would be valid had Halmstad supported the idea of the 3 second rule. He did not.


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## halmstad (May 17, 2010)

Thanks for looking out macgregor. I had no idea i was being slammed on an internet message board for something i never wrote. and caterchef: you don't know what the hell you're talking about. if the fda and usda are so infallible, how is it that people have been poisoned by spinach of all things? and i never mentioned the processing plants, never seen one. i only said that where the animals are raised are disgusting animal waste filled pens. they dump all over each other, get sick, get antibiotics and then start the process all over again. they are fed food they are not built to eat and then live in their own crap. this much is true.

and i never once said that the 3 second rule is okay. only that the meat is already kinda nasty.

thanks for the attention though. maybe ya'll should do a little more research other than watching t.v. and read my posts more thoroughly before you start passing judgement on something i never said.

have a great night!


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## greg (Dec 8, 1999)

Halmstead and MacGregor, I believe you missed the point of kuan's post. Regardless, please keep this discussion civil.


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## coulis-o (Jan 23, 2010)

who invented the 3 second rule?


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Caterchef .Don't know what plants you have been in lately but I disagree with you. The FDA and USDA are worthless. There is no more meat inspection done by qualified inspectors as there are no inspectors. All plants have been put on self inspection. This is a joke. Sure the floors are clean but thats OSHA so no one falls and sues on work-mans comp. The importation of meat from every country and combining and blending of same also hinders any kind of where th bad stuff came from. Meat from Brazil, Hungry,Mexico are all combined.. Recalls don't in most cases reach the public till well after being consumed by the public. Many countries outright refused our export of meat due to mad cow virus and rightly so. Our plants hire no more qualified butchers. Meat is cut by people who are trained to make 1 cut only on assembly type tables and tracks. Most culinary schools don't even teach meat cutting because even most of the instructors do not know how to break down wholesale and retail cuts. In some plants steaks are cut by laser machines.Meat comes pre cut and boxed even to most supermarkets, all some of them do is wrap it in smaller packages. 

As far as 3 second rule  either throw it out or YOU EAT IT.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

I disagree with you Ed.  My wife works in the food processing industry.  At my wife's work there is a USDA office.  At all the plants where they run product there's an inspector on site with an office as well.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

I have been in 2 plants both packing (meat only0 neither had an on premise inspector both had FDA numbers. One was inspected November of 09 the other Feb 2010. Both sold interstate .


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

USDA does meat.  In food manufacturing if anything contains more than 2% meat then the USDA is involved.  The FDA does fish and seafood.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Kuan   Tons and Tons of fish were imported into Florida last year, only 20% was inspected by FDA. I think this is pretty dangerous to the public.

Also when I worked in NY we were fed inspected with an inspectors office on premise, I saw him 1 day a week sometimes. I also worked in a Kosher Plant where the rabbi would come in on Friday morning to pick up his check. Did not see him rest of week. All our packaging was marked certified Kosher.???


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## tufftruck (Nov 2, 2010)

It's funny with the lack of inspection on fish from foreign sources that it is illegal (at least where I am) to go out and catch a fish from a lake, river, stream, etc and serve it to your customers.  Or wild game for that matter.


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## macgregor (Oct 21, 2010)

Quote:


kuan said:


> I disagree with you Ed. My wife works in the food processing industry*. *
> 
> At my wife's work there is a USDA office. At all the plants where they run product there's an inspector on site with an office as well.


We all disagree, can we agree on that? /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif


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## karendf (Jul 2, 2008)

I agree with all the cleanliness arguments and certainly when we're talking about livelihoods, it goes in file 13!

But another take on this,living in Mexico, people eat on the street an awful lot, and I know even myself I have gotten sick from badly washed vegetables (cilantro).  While eating on the street is pretty much a no-no for me, I have to say that most Americans get sick an awful lot compared to people from other countries.  When I first came here that also happened to me a lot.  But my stomach has become accustomed to a larger variety of foods and bacteria I suspect, along with the fact I almost never take anti-biotics.  Which brings me to the question...is there such a thing as too clean?  Because immune systems from up north don't tolerate anything.  Fast food restaurants who apparently have to adhere to strict standards are some of the dirtiest places i've seen.  Here recently I caught some servers make two mistakes, that I saw, within the 5 minutes I was at the counter.  I didn't get sick, although I did report it.  

My mother every time she comes here gets sick and we don't eat on the street, we eat clean at restaurants and home.   I've just accepted that her stomach is very sensitive.

Whaddya think about that?


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## smiley (Oct 22, 2004)

Well after 27 years in the industry and picking up my fair share of expensive items off the floor (would you not try to skim the top part of the Osetra caviar that didn't touch the floor just for yourself to eat?) I am now working in a private lodge where there are 10 guests who pay 205000.00 a week in an open kitchen concept.  If food hits the floor I try to make it hit the garbage  faster than it hit the floor, with as much of a thud as I can muster... reason?  eyes are everywhere, and so much as ONE second of thought in picking it up, destroys your trust from your client who is seriously paying big money to be there.  How would YOU feel if the Chef you were watching dropped something on the floor then looked around, then put it in the garbage?  It must be a natural reaction without ANY hesitation..... and the only way to achieve that is to habitually throw all floor droppings in the bin with NO hesitation........


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

I would say all the Chefs that agree on the 3 second rule should put that on their resume, that way they will be back washing dishes and not training cooks............Stupid questions deserve stupid answers.....................ChefBillyB


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## chefgord (Sep 28, 2009)

fryguy said:


> What your take on it?????


I had a kid drop a 7 kilo roast on my foot during a banquet when he was moving it from the altosham to my carving station.

He asked me what we should do. I just smiled & said he was responsible for that decision.

Such a good kid. He made the only & obvious choice.


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## chefgord (Sep 28, 2009)

Philosophos said:


> Scott,
> 
> By lowering your standards to feeding people meat off the ground, you are contributing to the problem of operating a restaurant honestly and within budget. You are contributing to the problem with that behavior.
> 
> ...


I got glass shards in my pizza in Calgary. Bit into them. It was fantastic.


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## chefgord (Sep 28, 2009)

ScottS said:


> Yes that is a sigh of relief form both of us. Keep chucking out your expensive product and see how fast bankruptcy hits you. You should be used to that.


Wow...frightening dude.

If being that concerned with razor thin profit margins will lead to you using floor food you might want to rethink your position in the industry.

Windermere, eh? I'm from Golden. Whereabouts are you?


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Profit margins will most certainly help to pay law suits and attorney fees, and medical cost  in the event of food poisoning


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## cookbambi (Nov 15, 2010)




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## lizabu (Jun 17, 2008)

cookbambi said:


>


Too funny...I like "Is it bacon?" -> "Eat it"...lol


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## cookbambi (Nov 15, 2010)

are you a puma? YES? Eat it.


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## djoko verona (Jul 26, 2012)

cabotvt said:


> . I'll take my chances with 6 bucks every other month.


I agree with you cabotvt...


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## smork (Aug 27, 2012)

lets say a bell pepper falls on the floor in the prep area from the box cause the the pepper was just small enough to fit through gap in the bottom.   pepper hits the floor and is picked up straight away and rinced off.   is it useable?  would you use it at home if you did this?


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

At home, yes (altho I don't order boxes of peppers for home).

Work? IDK. Depends on if I am running short on peppers (or call the vendor and have them rush a replacement pepper to me).

For sure I would chew the ass of whichever vendor sent me a box of peppers that were so small that this would be a problem.


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## cacioepepe (Apr 3, 2011)

I would think that nearly every fruit and vegetable that comes through a restaurant will get at least rinsed off.  A pepper on the floor?  Big friggin deal.  Wash it off.  Hell, those produce boxes get tossed around and dragged on truck beds, left on city concrete and who knows where the dolly has been. I bed the delivery/packing guys drop stuff every day and plop it right back in the box.  If everyone threw out every pepper, lemon, onion, or tomato that hit the floor we wouldnt have any restaurants.


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## cacioepepe (Apr 3, 2011)

And I'm sure anyone claiming that they throw anything that hits the floor, surely tosses every side towel that drops too, right?


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

Un-prepped produce dropped on the floor gets rinsed or peeled. The stuff grows in dirt ferchrissakes.


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## nickstacey1987 (May 21, 2012)

Where do we draw the line? Often times my orders will arrive and be placed on the floor, and some produce boxes (bell peppers for example) will have that gap and the veg will come in contact with the floor. Obviously to be washed before use. But this is somewhat relevant to this topic.

Personally if its anything that is not washed before use (bread, meats, dry goods) and its dropped, its in the bin.

Drop of sweat falls into the food? In the bin. Drop of grease from the hoods falls into the food? In the bin.


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## cacioepepe (Apr 3, 2011)

Well that's where we differ...I season my food with tears.


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

cacioEpepe said:


> Well that's where we differ...I season my food with tears.


The tears of your enemies I hope.


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## cookers (Jun 11, 2011)

tufftruck said:


> It's funny with the lack of inspection on fish from foreign sources that it is illegal (at least where I am) to go out and catch a fish from a lake, river, stream, etc and serve it to your customers. Or wild game for that matter.


Where I am, my purveyor told me there is no law regarding catching fish from a lake and serving it. However all fish that have been cleaned in one way or another already have to be inspected or else it's illegal. Anyone care to chime in on this? Is he correct?


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