# Grass-fed Beef Flavor



## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

Growing up working in a gourmet butcher shop taught me to love the flavor of good food, skillfully prepared, but especially beef.  For me, a standing rib roast or a 2" steak on the grill with, of course, the side dishes and a nice, big Red is The Ultimate.

I was drawn to try grass-fed for its health benefits. And...what a surprise.  Whether it's on the grill, on the stovetop or in the oven, the smell of it cooking is NASTY, and the taste is worse. Exceptionally unenjoyable.  Texture is dense, tough and dry.  Switched vendors: no difference. Have consulted the purveyors, and a prominent grass-fed cookbook writer, and everyone gives me that Elephant In The Room reaction. I am looking right at an elephant, and they are cutting their eyes at me and asking, what elephant?

And even worse.  The Missouri online purveyor has a video on his site which features a country club chef waxing eloquent about grassfed beef and, in mid interview, rips off a hunk of the raw beef and chews it. (I did that in the butchershop, but I wouldn't try it with grassfed.)  And the diners at this country club stood up, one after another, and testified to the delicious beef.  Am I nuts? Or is this a parallel universe?

I have been lurking in the curtains, reading your Forum and reveling in the wisdom.  I signed up for one purpose: to ask this question about grassfed flavor.  What can you share with me, Cheftalkers?


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

There is no doubt that grass fed beef has a different flavor than corn-fed.  You may be particularly sensitive to the difference because of your butcher background.  I don't have the financial luxury of buying grass fed beef often but I do enjoy the flavor of it and have never noticed an offensive smell. 

If the health of the cows and the future of the cattle industry is of importance to you then I'd say keep at it.  Sometimes in this over processed world we tend to forget what "real" food tastes like.  Artificial flavors, colors and preservatives change our chemistry and our expectation of food.  Try to remember that grass is what cows are supposed to eat, remember that corn is not a food they process easily and often leads to health problems and is responsible for e coli.  Eventually you may get used to it.

Also there is such a thing as grass-fed-corn-finished beef you may enjoy.


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## genemachine (Sep 26, 2012)

A lot of it just depends on your expectations, I guess - Here in Europe, massive feedlot operations were never the norm. I am used to grass-fed. My favorite beef is from a farmer pasturing them on salt meadows on the Baltic Sea cost. When I worked on a project in the US for 6 months a couple of years ago, I found the corn-fed beef decidedly weird. Not bad or nasty, but, well, not beefy enough for my taste.


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

I buy grass fed beef from a local farmer. They take care of cutting/wrapping/and deliver to my door cheaper than I can get in the grocery store. They do finish for 4 weeks on their own organic grain and that takes out the gamey flavor. I have had grass fed only and I think it tastes closer to venison than beef most people are used to. As far as dry and tough grass fed beef needs to be cooked at lower temps and for shorter times because it is much leaner.


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

Thanks for the responses K and Mary and Gene.

K, I tried that "it's good for the world" chant, and it didn't work. Yuck is yuck.

Mary, You hit the nail; grassfed tastes gamey, like venison. Actually, like venison larded with pig liver.

Gene, I'd love to sample beef fed on that salt-meadow grass; and perhaps they are those giant white Charlois said to be so tasty?

Therefore, the interim answer seems to be, Yeah, grassfed beef tastes gamey, nasty. (So, why are folks insisting I'm nuts; that it tastes fine?)  Interim answer # 2: Try a hybrid, grassfed and corn finished.  PS:  What are Morton's, Palm, Smith & Wollensky et al using? CAN"T be grass.

Are any of the 500 HP professional chefs prowling the Forum?  BDL, you out there?


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

I was born in France, so eating grass fed beef. When I came to the U.S., corn-fed beef was a new thing to me. I thought it was tender but not as flavorful, a little blander. Now I'm used to it and I can eat either corn fed or grass fed, I enjoy both. I still believe that grass fed has a superior beef taste, while corn fed to me is blander and a tiny bit nastier tasting. That's what surprises me in your comments: IMO the grass fed beef tastes *cleaner*, albeit stronger, than the corn fed.

Guess this is all a question of what you were raised on.

In any case grass fed certainly shouldn't have a nasty odor AT ALL. Are you purchasing vacuum packed grass fed beef by any chance?


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## genemachine (Sep 26, 2012)

Butcherman - no Charolais, but Blonde d'Acquitaine and Limousin, though I do have a source for grassfed Charolais too.

Interestingly, those races are all rather slow-growing and do not put on much fat, yet they seem to take particularly well to grass feeding.

You won't see any strong marbling, but that is somewhat deceptive, as they develop very finely distributed intramuscular fat. I never had a tough, dry, stringy or gamey-tasting piece of meat from the producers I buy from.

In the end, it's about your personal taste and a rather academic discussion regarding which is "superior". I had great grain-fed beef, too, but rarely.

My only ethical stance on the issue is that I will not touch anything coming out of a CAFO. That stuff is just wrong.


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## kippers (Aug 31, 2012)

We know about beef over here in the UK after all we gave the world "mad cow" and just think of a world without Boston Legal.

One of the rules re mad cow was the animal had to be slaughtered young, this led to farmers over here rearing the very fast growing and large breeds like Charolais which compare to an Angus or Welsh Black on the time limited  slaughter would be about 15% heavier on the hoof.

Butcherman, what breed did your grass fed beef come from, how long had it been hung, was it dry or wet aged, what was the distance it was transported from field to slaughter, how long was it in the slaughter house fields waiting to be wacked.

I buy what is called a choice cut over here, it is the rump, sirloin and fillet  in one piece on the bone.I pay for the chunk freshly killed, the small local slaughter house only whacks its own beef or buys on the hoof from local markets.The beef is then dry hung till its outside cut edges turns a bit black, mouldy and a bit smelly.I trim this off and feed it to my dog.The flavor is immense and you can cut it with your finger. 

Grass/Corn fed matters not a jot if the husbandry, slaughter and the maturing is crap the meat will be crap.


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

You folks are certainly justifying my decision to post this query here. Lotsa good thoughts. Thanks.

Biggest possible Aha!: The beef I purchased was shipped UPS, vacuum packed, frozen, packed in dry ice. At receipt, the meat had begun to thaw at the surface. Tossed the cuts into the freezer. No idea of hang time or dry vs wet or, of course, slaughtering procedure. As I type that admission, it sounds stupid for a former meatcutter to ignore key issues like aging method, but my eye was fixed on the sacred concept of GraaaaassFed, and the (apparently valid) health negatives of consuming meat of animals which had munched corn. The two vendors were Slanker Meats in North Texas and US Wellness in Missouri. If you Google the latter and visit their site, you can see some promotional videos that are first rate marketing pieces. Nice people, too.

The beef I sold (and ate!) was Choice and Prime Angus; I recall that the delivery weights specified for purveyors was at the light end of the range for a given piece (hindquarter, side, etc), the specification reflecting a preference for young animals. (Not arguing the validity, just explaining what my experience was.) The taste was exquisite; distinct beef taste with what I would describe as a sweetness overlay. Today's steak I snag at the supermarket in those stupid plastic trays is, by comparison, faint-flavored and soft-textured. But, better that than, ugh, pig liver on the grill!


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

PS to Gene:  I hadda go Google your term, CAFO.  Having done that I endorse your comment. I've lingered near Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations in Greeley, Colorado and El Paso, Texas, and one's nose knows: this ain't healthy, for the animals, for the neighbors, for the earth, for the consumers.

Thanks for another bump-up in my IQ.


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

I looked over both websites and no mention of what age they butcher at, what breed, and where they source the cattle from. I did have some grass fed beef that was range raised for 2 years that was super gamey and tough. Farmer I buy from butchers young to keep the meat tender and are all black angus. Look for your local farm to table website and buy direct and not from a middleman that is sourcing the beef from who knows where.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

butcherman said:


> Biggest possible Aha!: The beef I purchased was shipped UPS, vacuum packed, frozen


Vacuum packed would be responsible for the smell. Frozen means the texture is going to be even tougher. I never, ever freeze or buy frozen beef as I find it affects the texture too much.


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## deltadude (Dec 20, 2008)

butcherman, I grew up on a dairy ranch, the only meat we ate is what we raised, later as an adult and father of 3, I bought either whole / half / and some quarters of range raise professionally butchered beef, however some hay was used in their feed. I don't recall in general the meat ever being tough, stringy, smelly, or having a distinct flavor difference compared to store bought fresh meat. I will say though that one of the whole steers we bought I remember the steaks being unusually tougher than normal, yet the difference was a matter of degrees, and did not make the meat unpalatable.

So your experience does not match mine, and I can't explain the difference.


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## genemachine (Sep 26, 2012)

French Fries said:


> Vacuum packed would be responsible for the smell. Frozen means the texture is going to be even tougher. I never, ever freeze or buy frozen beef as I find it affects the texture too much.


I'd say that only applies to bad vacuum packing. One of my sources I can only get vacuumed, but it is not off the slightest bit compared to the other purveyor selling directly. As kipper said above - if there is a mistake in husbandry, slaughter, maturing - and I may add - packaging, the product will suffer. But vacuum packing as such doesn't kill it. Freezing won't help though, I agree with you there.


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## kippers (Aug 31, 2012)

In my small local village we have three Butchers shops, the oldest one with the longest queue has been run by the same man for 35yrs. He lives locally so he cant afford to sell crap meat.Every tuesday his meat arrives from the same local slaughterhouse I use, it arrives in half and whole format ie half pig,steer, whole lamb. He then keeps it in his chill room  then butchers it. I only buy his free range chickens that his son rears but I enjoy the "crack" in the queue.Packaging he uses grease proof paper.

Freezing, because I buy and butcher my own meat ect I use a vacpac machine.The texture of frozen beef steak only comes into question if the meat is poorly hung and wet. The ice crystals within the tissue will expand and break said tissue when thawing, 

The beef I use is hung for around 35 to 40  days so the moisture (profit) is at its lowest.

Ps at our second home my nephew catches octopus for a living, they are bagged wet and frozen for two weeks before they are sold to restaurants.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

My daddy (not dad, guess it's a southern thing) raised cattle for our personal use as well as a bit of extra income.

I married a cotton farmer (hubs # 1) and we also raised cattle for personal use.

In both situations the animals grazed the mixture below (give or take the %, we just bought the seed, mixed it up, planted and hoped for the best).

Hay Grazing Mix is designed for those fields where the option of making dry hay or grazing is needed. This mix contains 40% alfalfa (grazing tolerant), 25% soft leaf tall fescue, 20% late heading orchardgrass, 5% perennial ryegrass, 5% timothy and 5% improved red clover. This is a mixture designed for both grazing or hay production with improved varieties. (found this on a feed store site)

We grazed in the summer, moving the stock when the grass got low and had a few pastures that we never grazed..just cut and baled as many times as the season would allow.

So..grass in summer, same grass (now called hay) over winter.

I grew up eating beef that was grass fed (never knew it had a name, lol) never received hormones (we did vaccinate for http://cattletoday.info/brucellosis.htm ) .

Fast forward to my world post hubs #1....had to start purchasing my beef.

Corn fed.

Never noticed the difference.

mimi


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

I spent a number of summers living/working on a farm in Iowa. It was a pig farm, but cattle were included. Intelligence-wise, compared to pigs, cattle are stupid idiot morons. Anyway ... our cattle were raised for your basic beef-eating public. They pasture grazed and were fed a nice supplemental _"feed"_ if they wanted it. It was funny, but to get this _"feed"_ they only had to come in to get it. It was kinda like a _"free-feed"_ operation. They didn't come in at any given time, just when they felt they wanted to. What we used was a simple _"Acme-type"_ standard mix, including the simple standard 1-A-Day vitamin/antibiotic blend. Nothing was special or over-the-top. When the schedule determined, we began to pull in the _"free-ranging"_ and fed a higher grain/corn based diet to finish them off before going to market. In all the time I was there we never had any health issues. They got top going rate prices and produced really good beef, great steaks. I've never liked _"grass-fed"_ steaks. In my opinion, they are tough and don't have the flavor that I prefer.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Ice..did you use the same truck or horse (or ATV) when taking the supplemental feed out to them?

They will recognize it and think...more food.. and come running.

Anyways I called my ex MIL yesterday and asked her if she supplemented our cows (with any bag feed) at any time and if so what did she use (we ran our herd on the same land that she lived on.)

No..no.. no bag feed, altho I would cut some corn stalks (corn harvested, stalks not cut and plowed yet) and throw them out by the water tank every other day (or so).

So..I guess the stalks can do the same thing as bag feed?

Who da thunk it?

There is nothing as satisfying as raising a calf and then having ANY cuts you want, just tell the butcher and (after it is hung for a week or so to age) picking up a box full of white wrapped pakages with the contents stamped in blue ink.

mimi


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

In actuality *Flip*, we didn't have enough cattle to need to use a vehicle to _"bring anything out"_. The barn was it. The trough (1) was right there. Every 2-3 days or so I'd throw two(2) buckets of feed and three(3) bales of some _"hay-type-stuff"_ onto what looked like a big steel paint mixer. It would spin around a little then I would dump it into the trough. When they came in, if they wanted it it was there. It was sheltered out of the weather. It was a dry mix. They never finished it in one(1) day. If it all seems goofy to you now, it seemed goofy to me then too.


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

Amazingly...no real resolution.

I say to youse guys affectionately, respectfully, but pointedly: You are giving me the same Elephant-In-The-Room answers, What Elephant?

It ain't "just a matter of taste".  This ain't like Coho Salmon vs King Salmon vs Copper River, with each of us having his/her own fave.

Nasty Is Nasty!

Lured by your assurances and my own uncertainty, I bought another twenty pounds of grassfed online:  Nasty!

I propose that the fact that none of the top-line steakhouses feature grassfed, when Grassfed's Political Correctness Quotient would gain them big points with the young Wallstreeters, gotta tell you the truth.  And that truth seems to be, Grainfed is vasty superior to Grassfed, from a taste perspective, though Grassfed is probably better for your health.

"Ohh, this Grassfed steak is soo healthy.  And good too. Umm, please pass the Lea & Perrins."


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

butcherman said:


> It ain't "just a matter of taste". This ain't like Coho Salmon vs King Salmon vs Copper River, with each of us having his/her own fave.
> 
> Nasty Is Nasty!


 If it isn't a matter of taste then what is it? Validation for your elephant?

I love cambozola cheese. Lots of people think it is nasty. I will continue to enjoy cambozola without insisting that you also must enjoy my choice.

The great variety in human opinions certainly goes a long way to guaranteeing that I will never be bored. Thanks.


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

Chef Layne:

Point well taken.  I should not assume that because that very strong smell/taste is offensive to me, that it is offensive to everyone.

But your comparison of Grassfed beef to Cambozola cheese makes my point as well.  Cambozola is unknown to me, but from your comment I take it that it is a pungent, strong-smelling cheese, along the lines of Livarot or Limburger. Under that understanding of Cambozola, I'd propose that when the cheese board comes out, you would pretty much have the Cambozola to yourself, while I would have a line behind me for the Pont-l'Eveque.  And, PS, the Farmhouse Cheddar-eaters would claim that even my Pont is too strong.

The "Elephant In The Room" is: "Grassfed Beef has a strong, pungent smell and taste and needs marinating or some other artful cooking to be marginally palatable to 90% of diners".  That I can easily accept.  And I can accept what you have added, which is, "Hey, there is that other ten percent of diners who may even PREFER that grassfed taste."  What I can't accept is when the Cambozola-lover says, "Hey Butcherman, this Cambozola tastes just like Gouda".  That's what the grassfed advocates have been insisting.  I was sold on the health benefits of grassfed, and wanted to eat it, but couldn't stand it.  Now, I know why.  It's Cambozola!

Thanks for your post.


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

It isn't the beef that is the problem, it is how you are sourcing it. I buy straight from the farm, I stop out there a couple times a summer if I am in that area just to talk and look over the next batch of steaks. Every spring I pick the steer I want my beef to come from when I am there. It isn't as tender as corn fed bland grocery beef but it isn't what I would call tough either. Taste wise sure it is a little gamey but it isn't strong or objectionable. I would say it is milder than the corn fed deer around where I live.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Alright, you tried it.  You don't like it.  Big deal.  Why buy 20lbs of something you're not sure you like anyway?  Just accept it and move on, no need to make a liturgical sermon about how awful it is.  To each their own.


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## anguscattleman (Feb 23, 2013)

Nasty is nasty.  And grass-fed beef is nasty.  The only thing that I can think, with anyone who says grass-fed beef is bearable, is that the grass-fed beef they are eating was dry aged, and the grass-fed beef that I've had (that tasted nasty) was not.  Perhaps dry aging might take some of the nasty out of grass-fed beef.  Or perhaps the grass-fed beef that everyone loves so well was "grain finished", in other words, was not really grass-fed beef.


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## eastshores (Oct 23, 2008)

AngusCattleman said:


> Nasty is nasty. And grass-fed beef is nasty. The only thing that I can think, with anyone who says grass-fed beef is bearable, is that the grass-fed beef they are eating was dry aged, and the grass-fed beef that I've had (that tasted nasty) was not. Perhaps dry aging might take some of the nasty out of grass-fed beef. Or perhaps the grass-fed beef that everyone loves so well was "grain finished", in other words, was not really grass-fed beef.


WHAT? I raised grass fed black angus splitting costs with a friend. We did finish them with a little sweet feed in combination with grass, but the longer they stayed at pasture the better they tasted regardless of them being finished the same! The last one we processed had an intensely deep beef flavor (what most people go for when aging beef). Nasty would describe "gamey" which would be musty, or off putting which certainly was not my experience.


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

Angus Man:  Thanks for the contribution.  I have just tried yet a fourth purveyor and the Far Better Flavor of their grass-fed, organic beef suggests that the ChefTalkers who have pointed to packaging and handling as the possible culprits may have been dead on.  This shipment of beef arrived from Alderspring Ranch vacuum packed and frozen.  But no more pig-liver taste!  Beefier than the typical 2013 supermarket steak, but pretty d**n good!  I will try another order, bc I am sold on the concept that grass-fed is better for one's health than corn fed.

Kou-man:  Didn't appreciate the snarly post impugning my motives. I'm just a sincere guy trying to find his way.

Chef Layne:  Owe you a debt.  In your (very well done) post, you referred to Cambozola Cheese, and you made me curious.  Went out and found some.  Delicious!  Thanks!

Still don't have what I would say is a Definitive Answer.  Still think it could be found in the Great Steakhouses of the US: Palm, Smith & W, Morton's, Ruth's et al.  Are they serving GF?  If they elected so to do, that would be a huge PR bene for them with the Younger Crowd, the 25-55 Wall Streeters.  If they have not so elected, WHY NOT?  Can only be:  taste.

The Butcherman sits down.  Let the Chefs speak!


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

Hey, thanks Easty, for your input. I suspect it gets us inching closer to the Truth.  And it would appear to be a Truth that is very welcome; that is, It ain't the grassfeeding that makes the meat gamey, musty; somehow it's the post-slaughter handling and packaging.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

butcherman said:


> Chef Layne: Owe you a debt. In your (very well done) post, you referred to Cambozola Cheese, and you made me curious. Went out and found some. Delicious! Thanks!


As an appreciator of cambozola, you now owe it to yourself to try this dish:

*Cambozola Filet,* a filet mignon wrapped with bacon and grilled, topped with a generous portion of cambozola and served on a pool of zinfandel demi glace sauce


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

CL:

Thanks much, a second time.

B'man


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## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

The resurrection of this thread came to mind while I was at Sprouts getting a hunk of turkey for tonight's dinner.  Saw some "organic, grass fed" beef, purchased a small ( 5 oz. ) strip steak.

Seasoned it and cooked as I would any steak, I thought it tasted pretty good, nothing nasty about it at all.  I may experiment with using some of the chuck in a stew or pot roast.  There was a little "Sommers Organic" label on it, but I have no idea how the steak was treated between my meal and the steer's last meal.
 

mjb.


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## mikelm (Dec 23, 2000)

Certainly a fun and interesting thread!

B-man -

Since you're still trying to find a good source, you might try _American Grassfed Beef_ which is a family operation located in southeast Missouri, near Cape Girardeau. It's an interesting operation: Dad is the cattleman, mom is the vet, and the kids handle slaughter, packing, and marketing. They do it all and sell online with, I guess, some supply to retailers. I met one of the sons a few years ago when he offered samples at the local Whole Foods. I recall the sample as quite good, but haven't followed up, so I'm not speaking from any real experience with the product.

I've been interested because they are near where my father's family farmed since 1848, winding up as breeders of Angus show cattle. If you have been at all familiar with that game in the 1940's to 1960's you might have heard of the MAF Blackcapmere strain of Angus champions. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/thumb.gif In fact the son who was demo-ing the beef knew my uncle, who was the last to operate the farm. As he approached retirement, my uncle sold off the farm as a subdivision, catering to the more well-to-do professionals in Cape Girardeau. No more Black Angus in the family./img/vbsmilies/smilies/redface.gif

If you do try this product, let us know how you like it.

Mike


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

MJB & MLM:

Thanks for the posts.  Good data.

Went to the site of the Missouri rancher, americangrassfedbeef.com  Rain Crow Ranch.  Very impressive; seemed like very sincere and capable folk; gotta snag some of their GFB; they also seem to do Heritage Pigs and Pastured Chickens.  Spent an afternoon recently touring Organic Pastures farm outside Fresno, CA; they produce organic raw milk and cheese from grassfed cows and eggs from pastured chickens; same deal: family farm, very committed to excellence. Delightful experience being exposed to conscientious and knowledgeable people.

Butcherman


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## anguscattleman (Feb 23, 2013)

Butcherman, like you I've been trying to figure out what the deal is with grass-fed beef, why there seems to be such a split in the opinion of the flavor of grass-fed beef.  I've been reading a lot of opinions about the flavor of grass-feed beef on the 'net.  I would say that a large percentage of people who've tried grass-fed beef and who've posted their opinion on-line are describing it as unpleasant, gamey, unbearable, bad, really bad, and nasty.  But there is also a significant group of people that say grass-fed beef has a good beefy flavor.  My one experience with grass-fed  beef was not pleasant.  The beef was from a young grass fed Angus heifer that I had raised myself.  After that experience, I've always corn fed the steers that I've processed for beef, a total of 6 steers for myself and other folks, and never had a complaint, the beef was always very good. 

Search on-line for backyardherds forum / do you grass feed or grain feed before slaughter. This is another forum that has a discussion about grass-fed beef.  I am sure there are a lot of people who are having bad experiences with grass-fed.  Some of the people who think that grass-fed beef is good are saying that they use grain to finish the beef, and some are saying that the beef must be dry aged 14-21 days.

East Shores, sweet feed finished is grain finished.  Have you ever tried 100% grass finishing your Angus beef?  Does your beef processor dry age your beef in their cooler for 14-21 days before cutting and wrapping it?

I checked out Alderspring Ranch's web site.  It looks like they are a legitamate, small, grass-fed operation.  Their web site states that their beef is 100% grass-fed and grass finished, pasture and hay fed only.  Their web site also states that their beef is dry aged for 18-21 days.

From my own experience with grass-fed beef, and from what I've read concerning other peoples experience with grass-fed beef, including Butcherman's experience with both bad and good, I'm going to make the claim that grass-fed beef is naturally gamey and unpleasant, but dry aging completely changes the flavor to a good beefy flavor.  Is there anyone that has any information that could suggest otherwise?

Butcherman, you said that you liked Aldersprings Ranch grass-fed beef.  It looks like their beef is available from their on-line store, and from a handful or retailers in Idaho, Montana, Georgia, Wyoming, and Alaska.  Did you order Aldersprings Ranch beef from their on-line store?

Everyone, what are the brands of grass-fed beef that you have tried that were unpleasant?  What are the brands of grass-fed beef that were really good?


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## anguscattleman (Feb 23, 2013)

The Whisnant Family looks like they have grass-fed all figured out.  I'm going to retract my comments about all grass-fed beef being gamey, because I'm pretty sure there is no way that you could build a successful business marketing 1,200 gamey beeves a year.

If you finish grass-fed cattle on an unlimited diet of lush wheat grass and oat grass, which has a high level of sugars and starch, you could probably raise their calorie intake to a level that approaches the calorie intake of corn fed beef.  That must be the secret to good tasting beef, feeding the cattle a very high calorie intake diet in the months before harvest.  It wouldn't be an easy thing to do with all grass and no grain.  You'd have to grow a very lush grass crop, not pasture grass, and you'd have to plan your beef finishing to coincide with the months of the year that your grass was at it's prime.

I'm just saying not everyone who raises cattle would be able to do that, it would require a very specialized operation.  That's probably why I failed at grass finishing beef, and probably why there are other operations that are doing a poor job of grass finishing.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

If one examines the history of beef production in the USA, one will find that grain finished beef started in the 1930s after the Federal government commenced subsidizing grain production, thus changing the economics of beef production which established the foundation for the current beef production system.

During the same time period, there was a dramatic change in the handling of slaughtered beef, moving from distributed local slaughter houses and butchers who utilized dry aging techniques to centralized facilities which utilize vacuum packed wet aging.

Beef production involves many discrete steps between breeding and the steak on the plate, all of which affect the speed, nutrition, flavor, and texture of the final product.


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## eastshores (Oct 23, 2008)

AC,

I understand that "technically" you would say they were grain finished, in terms of purity but believe me, the sweet feed was negligible. They got maybe 1 scoop a day for about 3 weeks leading up to slaughter. The majority of their diet came from grass but in Florida with the amount of rain we get our grass can be very lush. It grows very thick. Our processor did age it but not 14 days, I think they let it hang for 7 days before packaging.

The thing that I noticed very clearly, was that the younger cattle had less intense flavor. The last we processed was just over 2 yrs at pasture and that was the best of the lot. Just through deduction, I would imply that the longer cattle are fed on grass, the better the flavor is. I doubt that is practical for commercial operations but that is why we did it ourselves. Also, having all of the steak cuts for just at the price of supermarket hamburger isn't a bad deal either!

-es


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

That is how my beef producer finishes their beef except they have to use hay/feed some times of the year here in MN. Think they butcher at 16 weeks so the meat is super tender and not real strong and gamey.


eastshores said:


> AC,
> 
> I understand that "technically" you would say they were grain finished, in terms of purity but believe me, the sweet feed was negligible. They got maybe 1 scoop a day for about 3 weeks leading up to slaughter. The majority of their diet came from grass but in Florida with the amount of rain we get our grass can be very lush. It grows very thick. Our processor did age it but not 14 days, I think they let it hang for 7 days before packaging.
> 
> ...


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## chefmikeb (May 23, 2012)

As a professional chef who dry ages his own prime rib primals in a drying fridge, I've tasted grass-fed, grain-fed and corn-fed, and I have no idea where the "nasty" comes from. I suspect there was something sketchy in either the meat originally, dodgey processing or bad shipping.

There is a gaminess and funk to grassfed beef that not every likes, the same way that dry aged beef has a similiar off-putting taste (to some) that can taste funky too. Personally, I prefer Canadian grass fed, grain finished, dry aged for 45 more days. A nice cast iron frying pan, an oven at 450F, 4 TBSP canola, lots of kosher salt and coarse black pepper, 5 minutes on each side on high, 10 in the hot oven, 10 to rest...sigh...


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

MaryB said:


> ...Think they butcher at 16 weeks so the meat is super tender and not real strong and gamey.


16 _weeks???_

Are you talking veal???

Perhaps I'm _behind the times_ but in my experience, a steer is rarely ready for slaughter under 22-24 *months *if finished in a feedlot and closer to 30-36 months if pasture finished.


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## anguscattleman (Feb 23, 2013)

PMC,

Grain fed Angus cattle can be ready for harvest at 12 to 16 months of age. Grain fed Continental breeds will take a little longer. Grass fed cattle may need to be 24 months old to develop enough size and fat to be harvested.

And I just looked this up. Grain fed Wagyu x Angus crossbred cattle are harvested at 22 to 23 months of age. Grain fed full blood Wagyu are harvested at 27 to 28 months of age in the USA. Grain fed full blood Wagyu are harvested at over 36 months of age in Japan. It takes a serious amount of feed to add weight to a Wagyu. It requires 2 to 3 times more feed to build fat than it does to build muscle. Plus these guys grow very slowly. They have reached the pinnacle of inefficiency. I see why Wagyu steaks cost $100 a pound, they have to charge that much to break even on feed costs.

Eastshores,

The heifer that I grass fed was very young, less than a year old, this is another mistake that I made. At the time I did not know that cattle need to be fattened to develop better flavor, and grass fed cattle can take a long time to fatten. The older they get, the more fat they will develop, this is probably the reason your older steers tasted better.

Also, the grass only stays lush for a few months each year here in Texas, but Angus cattle evolved in Scotland, a land of lush winter grass and barley fed livestock. They probably perform better where the grass is greener. Angus cattle have a large digestive tract, which requires more maintenance energy (more calories) to survive and thrive. I wonder if reducing their calorie intake gives their meat an off taste. In South America, where cattle are always grass fed, they raise Brahman and Nelore cattle, which have a smaller digestive system and lower maintenance energy requirements. That type of cattle might be better suited to grass feeding in Texas.

But the age deal is probably a key to good grass finished beef.

Butcherman,

Have you heard of Pasture Raised Grain Fed beef? It is beef from cattle that graze on grass pastures their entire life, the cattle are grass fed from birth to harvest. But months before they are harvested, grain is added to their diet, so they fatten sooner and can be harvested at a much younger age. The young age makes the beef very tender, the fat from the grain gives the beef great flavor even at a young age. 

Most people who raise their own beef at home do this, but I've just heard of one ranch that is doing this on a larger scale, with 130 registered Angus cattle, but it is still a relatively small operation. They are Windy Bar Ranch, and they are partnered with Lone Star Food Service who dry ages the beef and markets it for them. They are supplying 18 Oaks restaurant at J W Marriott San Antonio Resort & Spa. They also provide the beef to Four Seasons, and Steiner Ranch Steakhouse, and a few other swank steak houses here in Austin, Texas. They are marketing the beef as local, sustainable, and responsibly raised. I don't know of any other ranches that are raising beef this way, grain finishing on grass pastures. This would probably be the way to go to give your "Wall Street types" their grass fed beef, but also give them a consistent, tender, good tasting steak. 

Here's another thought about Pasture-Raised Grain Fed. You know about the health benefits of grass fed beef, that it is higher in Omega 3 fatty acids. And everyone assumes that grass fed beef is lower in saturated fats, because it is leaner. But a research project by a Texas A&M meat scientist concluded that grain fed beef is actually lower in saturated fats (bad fats) because the fat in grain fed beef originates mainly from the vegetable oils in the grain and contains more monounsaturated fats (good fats). Since Pasture-Raised Grain Fed beef is never taken off of grass pastures, it might combine the health benefits of grass fed (higher Omega 3 fatty acids, more CLA, and more anti-oxidents) with the health benefits of grain fed (lower saturated bad fats and more monounsaturated good fats)??


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

Oooops 16 months, brain fart with aging for 2 weeks


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

Thanks to all for very On Point posts. Some great, sincere knowledge being applied to the Question.

Angus Cattleman: The grass-fed I did not like was from U.S. Wellness in Missouri (two shipments), Slanker in Texas, and single pieces from HEB Grocery. When I say "I didn't like", I refer to a smell in the kitchen while cooking that was very NG, a smell and taste on the fork that was worse, and a very tough, dry texture. Like, push the meat away after three forkfuls. Not at all one of those close calls like, "Ya know, this steak isn't as good as the one we had last week." Not that at all.

ChefMikeB: Thass what I'm talkin' about!! I can taste still those 2" porterhouses cooked over a hot fire. I say your taste memory is just like your smell memory, in that you can smell a particular flower that grew outside your childhood home, and you're transported back in time. I want to taste that delicious beef taste again. My words at the time were that the meat tasted sweet. And let me hasten to assure: no monkeybiz, no marinade, nothing but beef, salt, pepper, and flame; I had cut the steak off the loin my-ownself, and I cooked it my-ownself.

Angus: I purchased my Aldersprings GFB online, and it was shipped vacuum packed, frozen, on dry ice. Exactly as were the other three online purchases.

Mike: I circled back to your Rain Crow Ranch, but couldn't go their prices. Couldn't believe their prices. $120 per pound?

Angus: Bonus Question: Is that an Angus as your avatar? In conformation and, of course, color, very different from the Black Angus steers I'm so familiar with. Izzat a Brangus, maybe?

I'd like someone in the Business to challenge one guess of mine: That all of the Major Steakhouse Operators MUST have experimented with grass-fed. The marketing advantages could be huge; look at how restaurants trumpet their Free Range Chicken! And the conclusion by the steakhouse guys MUST have been, we can't sell this taste to our customers. (Could be price, I guess. Is grassfed much more costly to raise/buy?) Anybody got a friend at Morton's or Palm or Wolensky or X who could give us the skinny?


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## anguscattleman (Feb 23, 2013)

Izza registered Red Angus bull that produces calves with excellent marbling, ribeye area, growth, and feed efficiency.  And they taste great when you grill them over a charcoal fire too.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

butcherman said:


> And the conclusion by the steakhouse guys MUST have been, we can't sell this taste to our customers.


I was raised on grass fed beef - and I absolutely love it (I also love grain-fed but for different reasons) - and would like to answer this thread but I never have the time to write everything I'd like to say... still I wanted to answer that comment for now.

I don't believe steakhouses can't sell the _taste_, I believe they can't sell the _texture_. While it's true that most Americans are used to the taste of grain-fed, and that it's probably the taste they are looking for and expecting from a great steak house, I think most importantly they are used to the texture of grain-fed: grain-fed is typically more tender that grass-fed, which is tougher. And that would be a hard sell in America where I constantly hear things like "the steak was out of this world, it was melting in your mouth" or "it was like cutting through butter". Forget about those kinds of comments if you serve grass-fed!


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

Angus:  Thanks for adding to my knowledge about the Angus breed.

French:  The late, great Bob Bartley, of the Wall Street Journal, used to say that merlot was red wine for people who don't like red wine.  I like to riff off that and say that filet mignon is beef for people who don't like beef.  To my taste, filet is just soft; not vivid-enough flavor.  Unless, that is, you follow a recommendation like ChefLayne's on this thread of wrapping the medalion with bacon, putting it atop a drizzle of red wine reduction and putting on top a dollop of Cambozola cheese...now, the bland filet flavor gets the support it needs.  Opinion, not fact.  Your point is interesting: you speculate that the Big Steakhouses decided they COULD sell their customers the flavor of grassfed, but COULDN'T sell them on the texture.  I disagree, but that's what makes a conversation.

Not that the relative tough-ness of grassfed is unimportant.  Note that the Missouri grassfed rancher/vendor recommended by Mike sells a Jaccard Meat Tenderizer, a forty-dollar device which apparently stabs the dickens out of the steak, thus "tenderizing" it.  I'm too much of a Traditionalist to ever use one of those devices.  But maybe I need some education.  Any experience out there with this gizmo?

On the core question of this Thread, I'm right where I began: I want to convert to GFB for the considerable health benefits, but I must acknowledge "the truth about GFB": flavor ranges from slightly more gamey than grain-fed, to downright nasty-gamey, depending on age at harvest, handling, shipping, etc; and toughness comparison ranges from slightly tougher/denser/drier to impossibly tougher/denser/drier, requiring a Jaccard Meat Tenderizer.  I'm happy to keep discussing, but I fear Chef McCracken is gonna boot us outta here.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

butcherman said:


> On the core question of this Thread, I'm right where I began


Despite your very limited experience with grass fed, and the multiple contradictory opinions? Honestly I was going to write my own opinion in a detailed way in this thread but I don't think you're willing to hear any opinions that don't reinforce yours. It sounds to me like your mind is already made up so I won't waste my time.


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

You misread my post.

I would like to learn from you, or from anyone, what their experience has taught them about this issue.  I set forth the status of my understanding at this juncture merely as a point of departure.  And too, let's recognize, or let's hope, that this discussion will increase the understanding of a large number of subscribers who are attending to this thread, not just that of the guy who kicked it off.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

Hmmm ok then... but I still have a feeling you won't be convinced. Anyway I'll share my story:

Well I was born and raised in France, where AFAIK there's no such thing as "grain-fed beef". Keep in mind cows are supposed to eat grass, not grain. So to me, grass fed beef is the norm, and grain fed is an exotic variation to the norm. I understand that for most Americans it's the other way around.

When I first got to taste grain-fed here in the U.S. I immediately noticed two things:

1) The grain-fed beef taste has a little bit of a nasty, gamey note to it. Not bad-nasty, more like a cheese can be nasty, or like fish sauce can be nasty. A good nasty. But still, nastier than what I had been used to.

2) The grain-fed beef texture is much more tender than what I had been used to it. I'm not just talking filet mignon: even a rib eye steak for example is much more tender than the grass-fed "entrecotes" of my youth.

Now back in France I have never, ever had frozen steak, or vacuum packed steak, or mail-delivered steak. I would go to a proper butcher and ask for the desired cut, which would be wrapped in paper, brought home and cooked. I have never, ever noticed ANY nastiness or off smell to a grass-fed steak unless of course it had been staying in the fridge for too many days, then the smell would indicate the meat was spoilt and we'd throw it away.

I would describe the taste of the French grass-fed beef I've had as CLEAN. IMO that's a better way to describe the taste, and a good way to compare it to the grain-fed taste which IMO is more DIRTY (even if it's a _good_ dirty). What I'd have trouble describing or explaining in a thread is how the grass-fed beef can be simultaneously cleaner, subtler and yet have actually more taste than the grain-fed. It's IMO a cleaner, more distinctive, more focused, more elegant taste, if that means anything to you. The grain-fed taste is more dirty, less "polite" and more primal. Grass-fed is well mannered, well spoken and to the point, with a bit of an artistic side. Grain-fed is a bit rude, loud spoken but knows all the good dirty jokes.

In fact I've noticed after eating a lot of grain-fed for a while, I tend to think of grass-fed as lacking something. Much like after drinking a lot of Napa Valley wines for a while I find the French wines to lack something. I have to get reacquainted with the subtlety of the French taste before I can appreciate it again. There's something "in-your-face" about California wines, the same way there's something in-your-face about grain-fed beef.

Grass-fed is also much leaner, and also tougher. That means that one, it cooks much faster, and two, it benefits from cooking much less. So you really, really want to reduce the heat and cooking time for grass fed. I have posted my instructions for a good grass fed steak in another thread here, but it's almost like sushi: flash fry for 30 seconds on each side and eat with a little bit of butter. The meat in the center is raw and cold. Much like you'd prepare a venison steak. If you prepared it medium-rare it would be overcooked.

So personally I like both, and they both have their place, but I tend to eat more grain fed when I'm in the U.S. and obviously only grass-fed when I'm in France (no choice there). And like I said I also tend to prepare them completely differently.

IMO if you find anything nasty about the taste and/or smell of your grass-fed beef, that means something is wrong with it.


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## mikelm (Dec 23, 2000)

*"Couldn't believe their prices. $120 per pound"*

Now you know, B-man, why I wasn't speaking from direct experience about their product. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif

Mike

But it does sound like a remarkable family and operation.


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## anguscattleman (Feb 23, 2013)

French Fry, you make grass-fed beef sound so good.  I have no doubt that you know what good grass fed beef is and where to find it.  Even though we don't produce much grass fed beef in America, and I believe that a lot of the grass fed beef that we do produce (in America) has an off flavor, my general opinion of grass-fed beef is beginning to turn to the positive.

There is an article on-line in Slate magazine entitled "Raising the Steaks, If You Feed Cows Grass, Does the Beef Taste Better".  They compare steaks from Allen Brothers, Strube Ranch, Niman Ranch, and Alderspring Ranch.  In the same order, they are the world's largest purveyor of USDA Prime beef, a Wagyu beef producer, a super-mega-large-cooperative of ranchers, and a relatively small grass-fed beef rancher.  All of the cattle in the comparison had been finished in a feedlot, except the grass-fed beef which was finished in a pasture.

And the favorite steak amoung everyone was the GRASS-FED beef.  Alderspring Ranch has it all figured out.  And it sounds like the Europeans, and the South Americans, and the rest of the world, they all have grass fed beef figured out.  I'm just not sure why it seems like very few other American ranches can produce good tasting grass fed beef.

I'm also starting to wonder if feedlot confinement might be harming the flavor of our corn fed beef.  When I hear people say that grass-fed beef has more taste than corn fed beef, it makes me think of the same way that I would describe beef that has been finished with corn in a pasture compared with beef that has been finished with corn in a feedlot.  One has a tremendous savory, salty, beefy flavor with a hint of flavor that is like blue cheese, the other can occasionally taste more like a wet sponge.

Here are two questions that I cannot understand and cannot explain.  the first question, why does grass-fed beef from France, and Argentina, and Idaho taste so good while grass fed beef from Texas and Missouri taste nasty and off-putting.  It is not because it is spoiled, there is a reason that I have yet to explain.  The second question, why is beef that is fed corn in a pasture taste so good compared to beef that is fed corn in a feedlot.  I've always heard that stress affects the way that beef will taste.  I'm beginning to believe it.  I am really starting to believe that the flavor of beef is affected more by the way that cattle are treated and less by what they are fed.


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## genemachine (Sep 26, 2012)

I think you nailed it with your last paragraph, Cattleman. From my point of view as a biochemist, stress due to confinement and improper treatment - and let's be open, high density feedlots are an abomination - will have significant effects on the hormone levels of the animal. Hormones are major regulators of cell biochemistry. I have no doubt that this will change the composition and consequently the taste of the meat. 

As for possible differences between European and American grass-fed beef, FrenchFries said it all. Around here, you generally don't buy vacuum-packed, frozen or plastic wrapped stuff. There are thankfully still proper butchers all over the place, professionals who in most cases know the farmers who raised their animals and who themselves select for quality. Getting the cut you want prepared right in front of you instead of having it sit in plastic wrap for god knows how long and the short ways between producer and consumer no doubt raises the quality (and the prices, sadly). Heck, the butcher I buy from still slaughters himself. 

Of course we do have supermarket crap - but it is not that prevalent and the good artisanal stuff is available everywhere. I just moved to a town of about 30.000 inhabitants in rural Bavaria - we have 5 proper butchers here. And while I am not a culinary professional, I was basically raised in my uncle's butcher shop, so I know proper craftsmanship when I see it.


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

Big Texas Thanks for this last surge of posts.  Very generous, erudite, thoughtful posts, conveying some real knowledge and experience.  I got what I came for: You have corrected my understanding of "The Problem With Grassfed Beef".  After my experience of ugly taste from three Grassfed sources, I thought I had to choose between A) markedly superior health attributes (Grass) and B) markedly superior flavor (Grain).  I had decided on (B), but first I asked the question of the Cheftalk gang.  And the answer is, One can have both health and flavor. It's the purveyor and the handling. And it's recognition of the necessary adjustments in cooking method and duration.  And finally, it's recognition that there is a difference between the two, but not the difference of Nasty vs Nice, but rather the difference between chocolate and vanilla.

The tangential speculation about the stress built into the grainfed/feedlot model being possibly a key factor was also fascinating. I recall a book on the stands a few years ago by an autistic woman whose different brain makeup allowed her to read the boiling emotions of cattle being herded down the chute to the slaughter house; and boiling emotions cause various hormones, etc to spill into the meat we will eat in a while.
 

GM's reference to his uncle's butcher shop makes me want to share a recollection which speaks to How Things Have Changed. Circa 1950, the supermarkets were just gaining predominance against the old family grocers, and instead of the shopper saying, "...and a box of Corn Flakes" and Mrs Liebhardt snatching that box off the top shelf with the grabber-stick, the shopper now trundled down an aisle and tossed the cereal into a basket on wheels. My father expressed to the meat routeman his worry as to what this innovation might imply for his business, and the routeman replied, "Don't worry, Bill; women will never accept pre-packaged meat".  And that sure resonated with me and my experience:  the little woman standing on her tiptoes to see over the counter to watch me cut up chuck for her ground meat, and admonishing me, "Sonny, not that piece; take that piece out". Or ordering me to slice off the outside of the top sirloin before cutting her slice; "that outside is too dark". (That's when I knew what we were eating for dinner that night.)

Five butcher shops in a Bavarian city of 30,000?  We probably don't have five butcher shops in a state of 20 million!

I'll be peeking in now and then, but my Question is answered.  Thanks to all!


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

butcherman said:


> ... I recall a book on the stands a few years ago by an autistic woman whose different brain makeup allowed her to read the boiling emotions of cattle being herded down the chute to the slaughter house; and boiling emotions cause various hormones, etc to spill into the meat we will eat in a while...


You are referring to Dr. Temple Grandin, https://www.google.com/search?q=tem...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a, I first met her in the early 1980s, long before her insight was generally accepted.


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## genemachine (Sep 26, 2012)

In addition to Pete's comment - the book telling about Temple Grandin is by Oliver Sacks, a great neurologist who tells in his writings about some of his cases with incredible empathy and insight into his patients. Always worth a read.


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## chicagoterry (Apr 3, 2012)

Grandin has written a few books herself. One is titled Animals Make Us Human: Creating the Best Life for Animals.


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

I'm in the UK.  ALL the meat I buy is organically raised only a couple of miles Away from my butcher's shop.The butcher's family have two farms and they raise all the beef (mostly Aberdeen Angus, highland cattle,  and Black and Belted Galloways)' lamb, chicken and eggs, too.  He makes sausages, his wife makes wonderful meat pies and haggis. I would never buy vac packed meat, it always looks slimy to my eyes, and often smells slightly 'off' to me.


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## anguscattleman (Feb 23, 2013)

Butcherman, I figured out why your grass-fed beef from Texas and Missouri was less than delicious.  These areas were experiencing drought last year, the stress of the drought hurt the flavor of the meat.  The beef from Idaho was fed on pastures that had plenty of rainfall, and Eastshores, his grass-fed beef had a good beefy flavor, they were raised on lush grasses that recieved plenty of rain along the Florida coast.  I'm coming to the realization that we may not have the climate or the rainfall that is necessary to consistently produce good grass-fed beef in many areas of the United States, we are not Brazil, we are not Argentina, and we are not Europe.

Maybe our climate here in the United States dictates that we have to feed grain to most of our beef cattle.  If we don't, we take the risk of producing beef that can not be eaten, and can not be marketed.  But I'm not sure who dictated that beef must be either A) entirely grass fed,  or B) entirely corn fed.  As it stands right now, option A runs the risk of being nasty and exceptionally unenjoyable, and option B will be a random selection, quality unknown, that has been been fed in a large commercial feedlot, not exactly artisanal quality.  I just don't understand why no one has ever asked for option C.  We can produce extremely good quality grass fed beef in the United States.  It will  just require adding some grain to the diet of grass to produce a consistant high quality flavor. I know a lot of people will read this and say "that is not grass fed, cattle are not supposed to eat grain".  But if we are having a hard time swallowing option A and we can produce something that is healthier and far better tasting than option B, what is the harm?

Option C is the breed of your choice produced by a small rancher, finished on a diet of free-choice grass pasture with a limited feeding of grain, processed and aged by a small meat processor to your specifications.  The price will be greater than grocery store beef, but less than grass fed beef.  The flavor will be exceptional, like none other.  The only reason that this does not exist is that supermarkets have made it so easy for the average American to find their food without thinking about it.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

_WOW._ That was as good an explanation as I've read about anything. _Thank You._


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Follow the money!

And remember, time is money to many. The less time to market, the better.

And government subsidies are money. The less spent on feed, the more in one's pocket

And land is money. The more pounds of beef per acre, the greater the profit (or smaller the loss /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif)

And whatever you can convince the consumer to buy is money.

Grain fed beef grow faster than grass fed beef, that's money in the pocket.

An acre of mid-western cattle pasture will sustain an animal unit, a cow-calf equivalent, for a year, that is MAINTAIN, not fatten. That same acre can produce 8,400 to 16,800 pounds of corn which when fed in a feedlot will produce from 1,000-2,000 pounds of fattened beef and still provide additional fodder for grazing. Which would you do, graze cattle or grow corn?

BTW, the short term drought probably had little to do with beef flavor and a far larger impact on beef quantities.

For the record, I've been involved with breeder, stocker, feeder, and feedlot operations in the Western , Southwestern, Mid-Western, and South Eastern USA in the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s as well as international ag production in the 1980s and am a past president of the American Society of Agriculture Consultants as well as an Ag. Engineer


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

Hey Grass-feeders:

I just bumped into this post on another Cheftalk thread. Any opinions as to the relevance of this? (Recall that my initial post described the odor of the cooking beef as "like pig liver".)

_In 2008, R. Wadhwani submitted his graduate thesis at the University of Utah on the the very subject of liver off-flavor in beef steak (Google: "Cause and prevention of liver off flavor" for the pdf). Around page 22 of his thesis he presents his hypothesis that the liver off-flavor is a result of inefficient blood drainage from the beef carcass. Given that beef liver itself is saturated with hemoglobin/myoglobin giving it its very distinctive taste, and the fact that the liver (and other organ meat) is removed immediately upon slaughter thus sustaining the blood content, I see no fault with his hypothesis. My understanding is that the off-flavor is further heightened by prolonged storage, such as freezing; where the meat is practically marinating in its own blood._

_Knowing what we do now of the practices in the big commercial beef producers/slaughterhouses, it's not surprising that the time needed to properly raise and process a cow is not a priority for them. To avoid this unpleasant taste in what you hope to be a nice steak dinner I suggest you do not purchase your beef from any of the mega grocery chains. I only occasionally indulge in a steak dinner -- because when I do it is fresh, USDA prime, local, grass-fed, and raised free of added hormones and antibiotics -- and yes, it costs more._


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

PS to AC:  Another issue with your proposed Option C is that by feeding corn to the cow, it would appear that you eliminate some or much or all of the health benefit, which is said to be particularly in the Omega 6/Omega 3 ratio.  Grassfed beef is said to have a wildly better ratio, that is, far more threes vs sixes.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Psst...cattle have four, yes four, stomachs for a reason! And it is NOT to consume grains!


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

I think it was Angus-man who recommended an article on Slate entitled "Raising the Steaks" about flavor comparisons among several vendors and breeds and feeding styles. Since I went through hell to find the article (six years old!) here's the link:

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/shopping/2006/11/raising_the_steaks.html

Lot of good commentary in that article. Interested to read that they (apparently) cooked all steaks with exact same methodology; Aldersprings Ranch in Idaho beat out Niman for Best In Show. A.R. raises predominantly Red Angus.


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

NOTICE:  I was WRONG about the "unbelievable" pricing of the grassfed beef on americangrassfedbeef.com  I can't account for my error; all I can do is correct it.  Their price for rib eye steaks and strip steaks is about $75 for six 8-oz steaks, so about $25 per pound.  Reasonable.


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## anguscattleman (Feb 23, 2013)

Cattle originated in the same part of the world where wild barley first grew, North Africa, the Middle East, Southern Asia.  Cattle started eating grain long before human beings began eating grain.  Grain was a seasonal part of their diet.  When grass produced grain seedheads, cattle ate it.  The starch in the grain seed heads fattened the cattle so that they could survive on their fat stores in seasonal climates.  When human beings began cultivating grain, they used cattle as draft animals to plow the grainfields.  And ever since, wherever human beings have gone, they have taken grain and cattle.  After human beings began hoarding and monopolizing grain, cattle had to evolve to survive eating grain only when it was fed to them by human beings.

The truth is that cattle can eat grain, and naturally have eaten grain in the past.  The difference now is that most of the cattle grown for beef production in the United States are fed a diet that contains a high percentage of starch grain for an extended period of time in a feedlot.  Yes, that is not a natural diet.

If you believe that cattle are not supposed to eat grain, and that grass fed beef is the only option from a health standpoint, then this thread is a lost cause, it does not apply to you because you will never eat grain fed beef.

I personally believe that this type of sentiment is exactly what is protecting the feedlot industry in the United States.  If an animal is fed one single grain of corn then it is considered as tainted as the rest of the animals in the grain fed industry.  I believe that a lot of people in the United States have tried grass fed beef from cattle that were not consuming enough calories and nutrition to grow and develop properly, it tasted nasty, so those people decided to return to getting their beef from the supermarket.

As a small producer, I would like to raise and sell high quality beef outside of the mainstream "food chain".  I do not think that the climate where I live will allow me to raise grass fed beef that would have a taste that is fit to eat (as Butcherman described, nasty, extremely unpleasant).  If I feed the cattle a grain of corn, my beef is tainted, therefore I have no market for what I could produce.  So, I am forced to send my cattle down the road where they will eventually end up going from the feedlot to the supermarket along with everyone elses cattle.  This system does not reward anyone who is trying to produce superior cattle or better beef.  So, you have what you have.

And lastly, Wadhawani is trying to paint an unpleasant picture of beef production.  Blood draining has nothing to do with the bad taste of some beef, when you cut the head off and remove the heart and internal organs, the blood comes out, you can't keep it in.  The same people that are processing grass fed beef are also processing grain fed beef the very same way.  There is a difference in taste that has nothing to do with the processing.


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## ishbel (Jan 5, 2007)

I won't be eating foreign raised, grain fed, vacuum packed meat.   EVER!


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)




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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

AngusMan, or anyone else on this thread interested in marketing beef via the Internet could profitably review a site named docscows.com  Doc is a cantankerous guy, and I think his site is a hoot.


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## anguscattleman (Feb 23, 2013)

Here is a very good article about grass fed beef vs corn fed beef

http://www.omaha.com/article/20120608/LIVING/306089992


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

People I buy beef from do quite well selling direct to the consumer. Very good price very good beef. Mostly grass fed with a little grain at the end.


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

Angus:  Thanks for the newspaper article link; indeed very interesting.


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## new to grass-fe (Mar 7, 2013)

My sisters and I purchased a side of grass-fed beef, completely free of hormones or any of the other nasty things that corn fed traditional beef could typically contain.  I excitedly awaited the butchering of our beef so we could try it, and due to the "healthier" reviews of grass-fed, it would actually be good for us.  The first night I barbecued a T-bone and a Ribeye.  I anxiously cut into the steak, put the fork in my mouth, and was immediately disappointed.  I thought maybe I hadn't seasoned the steaks enough, or maybe hadn't cooked them long enough, and varying other reasons for the disappointing taste.  However, each piece of meat I have cooked since that time has produced similar results.  Instead of the taste growing on me, and liking it more and more, the opposite has happened.  I can no longer tolerate the smell of it cooking, and once it is done, before I can take a bite of it I'm overwhelmingly put off by the smell and taste.  Maybe there is something genetic here - maybe this smell/taste is not pervasive to others because of genetics??  I was so excited and looking forward to eating grass-fed.  I've done everything I can do to season it just right, even going as far as to cover it up with excessive seasoning.  Nothing works.  I'm so disappointed in the way it tastes, I will never buy it again.  It cost a small fortune for a side of this beef and I guess I just expected so much more in taste and quality.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

It is a generally accepted idea that animal meat flavor is influenced by what the animals eat.

As such, it is reasonable to expect that corn fed beef will taste different than beef raised on grass and, in fact, grass fed beef flavor will be influenced by what grasses were consumed by the animal during its life.

When I worked in the Middle East I discovered that the lamb served, as well as the mutton, tasted completely different than what I was used to eating in the Western and Mid-Western US. In fact, the initial taste was very off-putting for me. I have since learned that fat tailed sheep taste different than the typical breeds in the USA and that the vegetation in the Middle East is far different than in the USA, Australia, or New Zealand.

Along similar lines, I have eaten venison from various locales and the flavor varies widely.

If one has eaten corn fed beef for most of their life and suddenly switches to grass fed, a change in flavor, and even texture and tenderness, should be expected. I know many cattlemen that I worked with in the 1960s and 1970s who detested the flavor and texture of corn fed beef as they had eaten local, grass fed beef for all their lives and become accustomed to the taste.

In my experience, when changing from one type of food stuff to another, it is best to start with a minimum of seasoning, preferably only salt and pepper, until I learn what enhances and what detracts from the different product.

Not only are there differences between corn and grass fed beef and different breeds of sheep, wild duck tastes different than domesticated or farm raised duck, Wild salmon tastes different than farm raised salmon, and the list goes on and on.

In fact, the French have a word or expression for the differences, _terroir_. Quoting from Wikipedia (yeah, I KNOW)


> Terroir can be very loosely translated as "a sense of place," which is embodied in certain characteristic qualities, the sum of the effects that the local environment has had on the production of the product.


Perhaps this has some influence?


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## mike9 (Jul 13, 2012)

I've never seen a cow in a cornfield eating corn - it isn't natural - hell humans should eat corn conservatively.  I realize they will most anything put in front of them, but corn especially Monsanto corn is just not right.  I wonder if they'd eat acorns?  Pigs and venison raised on acorn is amazing tasting.  I prefer my beef to be grass fed - it's leaner and more gamey tasting - like when we was kids.


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## anguscattleman (Feb 23, 2013)

New to Grass-Fed,

Can you tell us the city and state where the grassfed beef was raised? When did you purchase the beef, was it recently or in some years past? Beef is not cheap to produce and not cheap to process, so a side of beef is a significant investment for both the producer and the customer. I feel like a producer should not try to sell something that their customer would not be happy with. Did you contact the beef producer and ask them if you could return the beef that you did not use? If they feel that they have produced a good product and they have a large group of customers that purchase their product, they should not have a problem finding someone else that is interested in purchasing the beef and refunding your money.

My own opinion is that if you do not have a medical condition that prevents you from eating grain fed beef, then all-natural grass pastured grain fed beef (finished on grass and grain with no hormones, antibiotics, or ionophores) will give you the best flavor for a very good value.

Butcherman/PMC,

I have been studying the subject of grass-fed beef some more. The American Grassfed Association has a published list of standards for grassfed and grass pastured beef. The most important standards are:

_"3.1.1 All livestock production must be pasture/grass/forage based."_

_"3.1.2 Grass and forage, shall be the feed source consumed for the lifetime of the ruminant animal, with the exception of milk consumed prior to weaning. The diet shall be derived solely from forage consisting of grass (annual and perennial), forbs (e.g. legumes, Brassicas), browse, or cereal grain crops in the vegetative (pre-grain) state."_

_"3.1.4 Animals cannot be fed grain."_

_"3.1.5 Animals must have continuous access to pasture and forage appropriate to the species."_

_"3.1.6 Forage is defined as any herbaceous plant material that can be grazed or harvested for feeding, with the exception of grain."_

What this means is that grassfed cattle can be fed almost any plant material, except for grain. The most significant health benefit of grassfed beef is that it can be eaten by people who have celiac disease, wheat allergies, or corn allergies.

Since grassfed beef is not strictly limited to eating only grass, but can also be fed forage, anyone with a knowledge of the nutritional content of common forages and the nutritional requirements of beef cattle should be able to select a diet that would greatly improve the taste, tenderness, and marbling of grassfed beef (make it much better than feedlot beef). I'm going to go as far to say that someone could produce a bright red muscle/white fat, extremely tender, choice to prime, market ready carcass at 16 months of age if they feed a British breed (Angus or Hereford) steer. Assuming that a forage based diet costs twice as much as a grain based diet, an average cost of $5.50 per pound of carcass weight, or $8.40 per pound of retail product for all cuts (steaks, roasts, ground beef, cut and wrapped) would not be out of line. Which all means that if the beef is fed properly, in a little over a year's time you could be eating grassfed beef that makes you say "I have never had beef this good before in my entire life".


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

AngusCattleman said:


> When grass produced grain seedheads, cattle ate it.





AngusCattleman said:


> _3.1.1 All livestock production must be pasture/grass/forage based." ... _What this means is that grassfed cattle can be fed almost any plant material, except for grain.


So what happens when grass-fed cows go on pasture today, and the grass produce grain seedheads: are the cows instructed not to eat it? /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif


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## genemachine (Sep 26, 2012)

> In fact, the French have a word or expression for the differences, _terroir_. Quoting from Wikipedia (yeah, I KNOW)
> 
> Perhaps this has some influence?


Terroir sure as heck has some influence. I have tasted meat - and cheeses - from cows pastured on the one hand on salt marshes at the Baltic coast and on the other hand on high-altitude alpine pastures. The difference is massive. Both were brilliant, but in completely different ways.


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

Thanks GM and AC for the latest posts.  I hope Chef McCracken is still monitoring, because I'd like to ask his opinion (and, as well, the opinion of others) on the extension of each of these issues. 

On the issue of terroir, I wonder how we encourage, celebrate (and obtain!) some of these beeves GM is noting. I recall when I was still wearing a butcher's apron, there were turkeys marketed which had been fed on a specific diet, chestnuts perhaps, and their meat was much in demand by those who knew.  Why couldn't a steakhouse waiter at, say The Palm (am I showing my age?) announce, "Tonight, our chef is featuring a twelve-ounce steak from steers grown in the Baltic region, feeding on the grasses of the salt marsh, and he's searing it and...."

And AC's query goes right to the heart of the validity of the claims of the biochemists that the meat of grassfed steers contains a vastly superior ratio of Omega 3s to Omega 6s. How DO you keep the cows gobbling the grass, yet not eating the grain-heads?  Or is the issue purely corn, as a feed?  The lingo always lays out as, "Grassfed vs Grainfed", but perhaps the second place should be "cornfed". However, the Paleo Diet, so named, proscribes corn AND wheat, and so it proscribes the meat of animals fed on those foods.

One of the sub-issues may be evolution of these various grains.  I mean to say, the manipulated evolution of such.  And, PS, I'm no Luddite; I realize that if you look back in time, the foods we clasp to our breasts today as Natural/Normal/Wonderful are the product of centuries of "manipulation".  Apples.  Celery.  You name it.  But the cardiologist who wrote Wheat Belly (and runs the website of that name: "lose the wheat; lose the weight") argues that when dwarf wheat was developed, perhaps fifty years ago, we entered uncharted territory. Now wheat was being grown which had been developed SOLELY for its Yield Per Acre, with NO attention to what this new strain of wheat might do in our gizzards.


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## anguscattleman (Feb 23, 2013)

My younger brother also raises Angus cattle. This weekend he told me that one time he took his steers to PX Feeders to be fed http://pxfeeders.com/index.asp . They were fed in a feedlot, a dry lot, with no grass. He had the beef processed the same way that he always does, dry-aged 14 days. When he tasted the beef he was not very happy with the flavor of the beef, it did not have the same good flavor that he was used to, it lacked flavor. The flavor of the beef that he raised at home, that was fed corn while on grass pastures had a much better flavor. He told me that cattle need to eat grass to produce beef with the best flavor. I once thought that eating grass hurt the flavor of beef, but I've competely changed my opinion. I now believe that eating grass greatly improves the flavor of beef. Whether the animal is eating corn or not eating corn, as long as the animal is consuming enough calories to support their specific level of growth, eating grass does improve the flavor of the beef

Here are a few articles that address the health benefits of grassfed beef versus grain fed beef:

http://lowcarbage.com/tag/omega-6/

http://www.meatmythcrushers.com/myt...-nutritious-than-corn-fed-beef.html#footnote1

http://agnews.tamu.edu/showstory.php?id=1934

Dr. Stephen Smiths study on the effects of eating corn fed ground beef versus grassfed ground beef:

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/141/6/1188.full?related-urls=yes&legid=nutrition;141/6/1188

A study released in 2009 that shows that corn fed beef has more fat than grassfed beef, but corn fed beef has more monounsaturated fat (good fat) than grassfed beef:

http://www.animal-science.org/content/87/3/1120.full.pdf


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## anguscattleman (Feb 23, 2013)

This is my new favorite website, Meat Mythcrushers. Like Myth Busters for meat.

http://www.meatmythcrushers.com/myths/myth-feeding-cattle-corn-is-unnatural.html

http://www.meatmythcrushers.com/myths/myth-grass-fed-beef-is-safer-than-corn-fed-beef.html

http://www.meatmythcrushers.com/myths/myth-hormone-use-in-beef-production.html


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

AngusCattleman said:


> This is my new favorite website, Meat Mythcrushers. Like Myth Busters for meat.
> 
> http://www.meatmythcrushers.com/myths/myth-feeding-cattle-corn-is-unnatural.html
> 
> ...


your source is biased and thus not useable.


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## anguscattleman (Feb 23, 2013)

Butcherman, I would be interested in hearing what you think of the flavor of Bastrop Cattle Company www.bastropcattlecompany.com grassfed beef, and how it compares to Alderspring Ranch grassfed beef.

Bastrop Cattle Company is producing grassfed beef here in Texas close to where I live. I think they may have figured out how to make good tasting, tender grassfed beef. They are processing young calves that have not been weaned, that have still been nursing on cow's milk. The cow's milk has all of the fat and protein and sugar that the calves need to grow. The calves are harvested at an early age, so the beef is tender. And the calves are getting all of the nutrition that they need to grow, so they don't taste gamey or rank. The cost per pound for steaks looks very reasonable compared to other grassfed beef that I've seen for sale.

BCC is a cooperative of small ranchers. They raise their own beef, and purchase young calves from other nearby ranchers. They look for gentle cattle that are primarily British breed (Angus or Hereford) that will produce a weaned calf that weighs over 700 pounds. Before long, all of my calves will be grassfed and will be sold as beef through Bastrop Cattle Company.


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## mtnfolksinco (Sep 22, 2013)

*We live in Colorado where the cattle are Certified grass fed only, no corn or drugs.*

*Last winter we bought our first 1/2 of a beef and it also had an elephant appear in our kitchen the*

*first package of beef we cooked!!!!! The smell was like grass compost, which was so strong in odor*

*that my husband and I couldn't swallow it. That was ground beef. It is very true about how lean it is*

*you almost have to marinate it in oil so you can cook it?? I complained to the ranch where we purchased it*

*and to our dismay were king of brushed off by the rancher. I explained we expected a nice roast maybe prime rib,*

*or a tenderloin roast, we received a few chuck style roasts and didn't even get a rump or round roast??*

*We got a few t bone steaks and top sirloin steaks. 80- 1 lb packs of hamburger. We felt like the guy who delivered it*

*switched the prime cuts for less than desirable cuts. Anyways see if you agree we were robbed by the butcher or*

*delivery driver?*

*The second contact with the rancher made my mind up, I told him about the smell and the less than prime cuts we *

*got.*

*His reply was that he had changed drivers because of a lot of complaints and also has a new USDA certified*

*company to butcher this year, I believe he said the ACME meat packaging co. Also to make sure we were satisfied*

*and repeat our business he is going to give us a 1/8th of beef 2014 and another 1/8th 2015?*

*I told him Id like to try meat from another cow in 2014 also if it tastes and smells the same we don't want more in *

*2015?*

*My husband has horrible grass allergies also, the first time we tried it he broke out all over has anyone with*

*allergies had issues eating grass fed only beef??*

*Please let me know what others think??*

*We didn't think the taste was anything special and didn't have the beef flavor of a restaurant steak, but *

*the grass smell was very apparent on your plate which was not appetizing at all.*

*Defosted in the microwave the meat really has a putrid smell that will make being in the house sickening..*

*.*


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

MtnFolks:  You make two points, That the grassfed beef you purchased was not at all delicious, but rather bad smelling, bad tasting and dry, and that the selection of cuts seemed not to represent a true half of a beef carcase. 

As to taste and smell, your experience mirrors mine. We have had a lively discussion on this Site, yet no conclusion. I am grateful for and respectful of the smart folks who have contributed. But it sorta hurt me to see how several people sincerely felt I was being insensitive and abusive, that my taste buds were attuned to bland, soft meat, and I was disparaging the nice, strong, vivid taste of grassfed beef.  Others have suggested that any odor or off-taste is attributable to mishandling in packing and shipping.  But I've bought from four vendors and had identical experiences.

I've stopped searching for delicious grassfed. My provisional decision is I can have Healthy or Delicious, not both.  But Angus Cattleman posted a suggestion that I try Bastrop Cattlemen, and I shall. Somehow I missed AC's post until I got an email notice of the Mtn post.  I live in the Texas Hill Country and am intrigued by AC's recommendation.  Thanks, AC.

As to selection, I can only say that since I have been buying Sample Boxes of the various vendors' beef, I have no direct experience, but I have been puzzled by the list of cuts proffered on the various sites.  I have wondered what these ranchers are doing with the cuts they are leaving out of their Offered Selections. I guess they have other customers for the cuts they are withholding from the selections they offer on their sites.  When I read "half a beef" I'm thinking "side of beef", but perhaps what these vendors intend is "half a beef by weight".  But with that quibble, or deception, aside, you are correct to question where the better cuts are that you expected. If what he is selling is a true side of beef, then of course it would include the loin roast and steaks, the round roasts (top, bottom, top sirloin, eye) as well as the chuck and neck and shank and skirt and etc.

This is a great site.  Great to get a bunch of smart, experienced people in a "room" with each tossing in their experience and opinion. Thanks to PHatch for refereeing this and keeping the ball in play.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Take a look at http://www.askthemeatman.com/yield_on_beef_carcass.htm for a pretty detailed breakdown of the cuts from a dressed out beef, you'll have to scroll down to see the details, they are listed AFTER all the links.


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## mikelm (Dec 23, 2000)

Very interesting thread, and kind of an old home week for me. My father's forebears farmed in southeast Missouri since 1848; they wound up being very big in the Angus show cattle field. AngusCattleman, you may have come across the_ MAFBlackcapmere_ bloodline- that was their most prominent champion sire. My late uncle ran the farm until he retired around 1980 or so. The M in MAF is the same as the M in MikeLM./img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif

_www.Askthemeatman.com_ is the butcher/packer in Jackson, MO who handled my uncle's packing needs. He has a wonderful, informative website and anybody interested in meat, meat products, or meat equipment will find it both useful and entertaining.

By the way, they have a sale going on thru tomorrow 9/23.

Mike

Edit 9/24: New sale thru Oct. 7: $30 off any sale over $150.


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

Have a grass fed beef rump roast in the oven braising, will add some potatoes later after it gets a good start. Maybe carrots if the ones in the fridge are still good.


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

APOLOGY:  In my post responding to Mtn and Angus Cattleman, I thanked P. Hatch, but now scrolling back through the months of posts, I see that it has been Pete McCracken who has kept this train on the rails with astute commentary.  Thanks, PM.


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## butcherman (Oct 23, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgF3gK..

This is a link to a Heston Blumenthal video of him cooking a Longhorn steak, and it looks EXACTLY like the steaks I am jonesing for. Very interesting cooking methodology.

He says on the video that Longhorn won their taste test over perhaps five other breeds.

I found a Longhorn rancher/vendor in Winnie, Texas, but that's five hours on I-10 from my home in Kerrville.

Cheftalkers: Any experience to report, w/ Longhorn meat vendors or grilling Longhorn meat?


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## takingstock (Sep 26, 2012)

This is quite a read.....

I bought 1/4 of a GF cow a few years ago......basically very good but I appreciate the opinions here.

The local farmers markets are my sources.

http://www.rockingchairranchcattle.com

My main problem is the toughness...

I buy from local ranchers w/ in a 200 mile radius.

Another problem is that they are required to freeze it all.

Not sure if this is good or bad.

It is all aged for 14 to 21 days...

A big problem is the ranchers are not foodies so they are typically clueless about the cooking part.

I have not experienced "nasty" but I get it.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

Most likely the nastiness come from improper or bad slaughtering, and has little to nothing to do with the animal itself. If an animal is stressed or agitated pre and during slaughter, it uses the stored sugar in it's muscles that then gets replaced with lactic acid. That is most likely the culprit. 

A lot of this depends where you source your meat from and how it is treated during slaughter. I personally quite like grass fed beef (and corn fed beef too lol), and I recognize that it has a more beefy flavor and is usually a bit tougher, but I would never describe the taste as "nasty" or in any way off putting.


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## walkergrassfed (Jul 19, 2014)

I raise 100% grass fed Ruby Red Devon beef. Just wanted to put in my two cents on how to NOT get a wonderful experience out of grass-fed.

1. cook it too hot or two fast - it's OK to sear it but then put it on a cooler burner - don't turn down the burner it's on - the heat stays too long - have another burner to put it on. Think venison.

2. get too young a beef - it takes just about 3 years to properly finish a beef on 100% grass. My meat is as well marbled as any feed-lot beef but it takes the extra year to get a beautiful marbeling on grass only. This adds to the expense of raising the beef, thus be prepared to pay for that.

3. make sure the beef was finished on GRASS - not hay (which qualifies as grass) - especially in the winter - have your beef finished while they are still on pasture. Hay tastes NASTY.

4. Make sure the animals are handled and killed humanely. If they are stressed, their adrenaline is in their system and the meat is dark, tough and doesn't taste good.

5. Sounds counter-intuitive, but be careful of organic beef. The USDA has approved incinerated bio-waste as Certified Organic fertilizer. It is CHEAP and certified - thus a LOT of farms use it. It's cheap as that's one of the only ways for the government to get rid of it. The farms I know that use it have to shut their windows when it rains - as it still smells like poop. If it smells like poop I am sure it effects the flavor. EEWWW is all I can say.

6. Make sure the beef has had access to the right minerals - if they don't get free choice minerals their muscles are deficient in anything their grass is deficient in and this effects the physical properties of the muscles - and thus the tenderness and flavor.

7. KNOW YOUR FARMER and don't be cheap. Same rule for any produce or meat you are buying - you don't know what you are getting if you don't know the farmer. It takes another year to raise a perfectly finished grass-fed beef and if you want that experience you should be willing to pay for that. You pay extra for hand made furniture and a good grass-fed beef is really crafted, not thrown out in a yard then killed.

I have beautifully marbled, melt in your mouth, great taste from first bite to last, beef. But it's a lot of hard work and requires daily pasture movement and care of the animals and lots of time and patience. You get what you invest in - in money and in time investigating what you are indeed buying. I'll place my beefs against any conventionally grown beef any day - and I'll win - but that's not what you get by just buying any old generic grass-fed beef for the most part. Investigate ALL your food - you would be amazed at the crap that's offered us.....

Joanie, walkergrassfed.com


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## genemachine (Sep 26, 2012)

walkergrassfed said:


> 7. KNOW YOUR FARMER and don't be cheap.


Here we go. That's what it is about. I know the farmers and the butcher to the point of having the occasional beer with them. They are good people and love their food themselves. Never had a bad experience there. And it still works for them - you still can make a living by selling low volume - high quality stuff. Same with some of the local pig farmers. Heirloom pigs with belly fat you would not believe, partially pastured in orchards so they can gorge on the fallen apples and plums. That fat, that fat.....


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## takingstock (Sep 26, 2012)

walkergrassfed said:


> I raise 100% grass fed Ruby Red Devon beef. Just wanted to put in my two cents on how to NOT get a wonderful experience out of grass-fed.
> 
> 1. cook it too hot or two fast - it's OK to sear it but then put it on a cooler burner - don't turn down the burner it's on - the heat stays too long - have another burner to put it on. Think venison.
> 
> ...


Wow...

I am going to take this to my GF rancher today.


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## anguscattleman (Feb 23, 2013)

Our second attempt at producing grassfed beef has turned out much better than our first.


Our first experience was many years ago. We had a young weaned heifer processed during the winter. She was fed poor quality hay and was not given any mineral supplements. So, we pretty much did everything wrong. That heifer had a gamey, rank smell, and an off putting taste that ButcherMan and many others have mentioned.


After gaining some experience raising pastured corn fed beef, we decided to try raising grassfed beef again. We got our recent grassfed beef back from the market over the weekend and we took four more calves to the market.


We are processing these calves at a young age, so they are very tender. They’re 8 months old, weighing 700 pounds, and they are still nursing. We provide them free choice mineral supplement, put them on our best improved pastures with lush green grass, and we weigh them each month to make sure that they are eating well and growing well. We’ve only processed calves that are gaining over 2.5 pounds per day.


We had this beef dry aged for 9 days, but plan to age the next 4 carcasses for 16 days. The beef has the aroma of fresh beef. The color is a bright red color with a hint of purple, not the darker burgundy that I expected from grassfed beef. The flavor is good, it’s a light beefy taste, not the intense beefy flavor of our pastured corn fed beef.


I am convinced that the bad taste and smell of the grassfed beef that ButcherMan and others have described is caused by a lack of adequate calories and protein needed for growth of the calf. Growing calves need a high level of protein and energy which they get from their mother’s milk. Mature animals don’t need the same high level of protein and energy (because they are no longer growing) and can thrive on lush green grass. The way to avoid getting bad tasting grassfed beef is to make sure that the beef comes from mature cattle on lush pasture, or from young nursing calves with high milking mommas on lush pasture.


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## takingstock (Sep 26, 2012)

GeneMachine said:


> Here we go. That's what it is about. I know the farmers and the butcher to the point of having the occasional beer with them. They are good people and love their food themselves. Never had a bad experience there. And it still works for them - you still can make a living by selling low volume - high quality stuff.


Here in the states it is hard enough to get to know the ranchers/farmers but the "butchers" and processors(?) its a game changer here...almost impossible for the average working person...to get to know them.


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## takingstock (Sep 26, 2012)

AngusCattleman said:


> Our second attempt at producing grassfed beef has turned out much better than our first.
> 
> Our first experience was many years ago. We had a young weaned heifer processed during the winter. She was fed poor quality hay and was not given any mineral supplements. So, we pretty much did everything wrong. That heifer had a gamey, rank smell, and an off putting taste that ButcherMan and many others have mentioned.
> 
> ...


but walkergrassfed says this-

bad taste is a result of- "get too young a beef - it takes just about 3 years to properly finish a beef on 100% grass. My meat is as well marbled as any feed-lot beef but it takes the extra year to get a beautiful marbeling on grass only. This adds to the expense of raising the beef, thus be prepared to pay for that."

This very confusing.


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## anguscattleman (Feb 23, 2013)

There are a couple grassfed beef producers near me who are raising young grassfed beef and are doing a good job of it. Young beef may also be called vitello, vitellone, or rose veal. Young grassfed beef will have good flavor and will be more tender than beef from mature cattle, but will not have the marbling of a mature animal, or the robust flavor of a mature animal.

The young beef calf should still be nursing and should be growing at a high rate of gain, because if it is not getting enough protein or energy for growth, it will become stressed and its beef will have an off flavor and a gamey odor. But eventually, as the calf grows older and begins to reach its mature weight, it no longer needs a high protein and high energy diet. That is when it begins to put on fat and marbling, and why more mature grassfed beef has high marbling and a more intense beefy flavor. 

But compared to a grain fed animal, it takes more time to get a grassfed calf to their mature weight, as much as 3 years, they just don’t grow very quickly on grass alone. As a calf grows older, their muscle fibers grow stronger and tougher. That’s why some grassfed beef may be tougher. So with grassfed beef, there may be a trade-off between choosing young beef that is tender, or mature beef with robust flavor and marbling.

But you should avoid grassfed beef from calves that have been weaned, but are smaller than mature sized cattle, they may be more likely to have an off flavor. I think that is why Joan Walker says that one way to NOT get a wonderful experience out of grassfed beef is if you get too young a beef. You should know your beef producer and know what they are doing to produce better beef.


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