# Customer Service, where to draw the line



## headless chicken (Apr 28, 2003)

Customer is always right right? 

We are drilled by those above us to go the extra step but where exactly do you draw the line and who dictates the limits? 

I'm a bit of a fork in the road here. In the past, I've made is pretty public about how I hate where I work and yes, I'm still there if only because no one seems to want to hire me. Before opening full swing, chefs from headoffice introduced a semi-new system to keep track of waste, portion control methods, and daily production. Most of our recipes are pretty much written in stone with little or no deviation because they're products of a franchise that we have no control over. 

Customer comes in today (I'm covering as we're short 3 bodies) ordering a poutine, I'm no connisseur but I know how to make one and I know the recipe given so I know they don't match. She wants a larger portion of cheese and gravy without paying because what I gave her wasn't poutine and she refuses to pay extra. I apologized sincerely with and explanation only to get the "your not f**king sorry" response in front of 3 others to which she fills out complaint report which is now stuck to my record and I get the shaft for not giving her what she wants. 

So in terms of customer service and portion management, which would win out? Do I give in and have to do the same with the rest of the people in line or was I right in standing my ground firm on policy? Because the way I see it, I would have gotten in "dog poop" regardless of which ever road in the fork I went.


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## pembroke (Sep 26, 2009)

I'd find a job in a decent place that didn't sell chips topped with gravy, life is to short to deal with that kinda crap! IMO.


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## discgolfjoe (Jan 9, 2010)

First off, I guess I should wish you luck job hunting. And second off, I remember hearing at some time, somewhere, about a theoretical mathematical equation about this kind of situation. I can't remember exactly how it went, but it went somewhere along the line of, "if it costs less to make the customer happy than what you would lose in potential business by them being unhappy, it's worth the 'waste' to keep them happy." I'm not sure if that helps, or if that even makes sense, but I hope you get the idea.


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

Unfortunately you can't please everyone and I'm sorry you have that complaint stuck to your record now. 

I hope you can get out of there soon!


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## greg (Dec 8, 1999)

Don't knock poutine, Au Pied De Cochon serves it. I echo the moving on sentiment though. Perhaps to a place that isn't so dogmatic as to place a clearly undeserved complaint in your employee file automatically.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

No the customer is NOT always right.

You basicaly have two tactics to deal with such people.

One is "X(name of your restaurant) standard", as is in, "this is our standard, and due to company policy we can not deviate from this standard".

Two is to grab the duty manger and let him deal with the physco.

Believe it or not you are in contol in this situation. The physco wants something, either for free, or additional items for free, or to see you get canned. I don't what makes these people tick and why they want this "extra service" or why they feel entitled to it--maybe they lost thier home or maybe they don't like the way you comb your hair.

_In any case they want something from you and only you can give it to them._ You have the power to deny or grant their wishes. The "broken record" tactic works well, just keep repeating the same thing over and over again in a plain, flat voice--drives them nuts becasue they want a fight and you won't give it to them. If they start yelling, you have to tlell them that you can't give the what they want until they cool down. Many cases they'll walk out.

Good luck. Sorry to hear this sh** happened to you, but it will crop up again and agian, and again.....


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## gunnar (Apr 3, 2008)

As friendly as I can be, this is the type of customer that instantly makes me "shut down". Psuedo smart, pouty, spoiled, make you feel obligated instab!tch. When dealing with this kind of customer i usually just stand by the ticket i received. "The ticket says you wanted "X", you got "X" is there a problem?" if at this point the customer "pushes it" my next best response is "Let me get the manager/owner, they will be able to facilitate any requests easier then I could..."

now I can seem sympathetic (sometimes I actually am) and get back to my job, which is cooking food, not holding finicky peoples hands. Just keep in mind that the owner or manager will likely just tell you to refire the order and this time add "Y" not "X" and possibly be annoyed for you knowing your limits when it comes to customer relations.


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## pembroke (Sep 26, 2009)

:thumb:I know, I know, it's a Canadian thing:lol: Please excuse my British sense of humor, I thought my response was quite funny!


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

IMO, you were wrong. Whether the customer was right or wrong, the customer is always right. In this particular case, it was easy enough to please her. Your unhappiness with your job affected your performance. 

Advice (from someone who's read all your posts, sympathizes and likes you): Act like a professional. Lose the stick. Lose the attitude.

BDL


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Hang on a sec, weneed to clarfy a few things.

Do you have poutine on the menu?

If you do, are you comfortable serving it?

If not, you should direct the guest away from the item.

A guest who is screaming infront of customers over a $5.00 item is not worth keeping.


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## headless chicken (Apr 28, 2003)

The item is on the menu due to a large demand for it otherwise since the section is a franchise with standard recipes and portion control, I had abide by those recipes 100%. When we started this item some 4 years ago, we had portion control issues because like with this incident, people demanded larger portion sizes at no extra cost plus other workers did their own thing and its taken nearly 2 years to fix that and made standard with everyone who will ever set foot in that section. I've already been written up on not abiding by the recipes and now I'm being written up by abiding by the recipes. Was the headache worth $4.00, no of course not but I show professionalism and courtesy all the way till she said "you not ****ing sorry". I'd show a video of it if I only taped the whole thing. 

Do I know what poutine is really suppose to be like? Yes. Do I have control to make changes to the corporate recipe? No.

EDIT: BTW, did I also mention that I was covering this area b/c someone was away, plus anther person was away and another had quit. Yes, about 70% of that was on me plus what I do regularly.


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## theethical chef (Jan 29, 2010)

C'est la vie des chefs, if you think that you can count on others to do even as little as show up to work then the restaurant biz is not for you, not as a chef any way, one difference between cooks and chefs are chefs adapt and cooks complain. Give her the gravy and cheese, who's gonna turn you in the food police, are you running a full inventory every shift with exact weights then figuring out how many of each item you sold then figuring out what product was theoretically needed to produce said menu items so your boss could determine that one customer got extra gravy and cheese give me a break that's simply not reality. I know these are not the things you want to hear but sometimes you've got to realize that it wouldn't be called hospitality if you didn't have to be hospitable even to people that don't deserve it. If you think its bad in your location now know that the higher the price the greater the expectation and the more pompous and assuming clients you will be serving. l would tell your superiors that alot of people complain about the putine having enough gravy and curds. But I could be completely wrong and you could have a ligitimate gripe, if your job is that bad, do lousy work and get fired then collect and find a new job, if there is something you don't like in life, change it cause you only get one and tomorrow is no place to place your better days.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Ethical, look at headless's last post again. They have standard portion control, other staff take it unto themsleves to abuse this and offer larger portions. What a mess! And it reflects more on the management than eanyone else. Ergo, the customer wants a larger portion and doesn't want to pay for it.`

IMHO the customer is abusing the restaurant, and only frequents the restaurant because it is poorly managed and therefore easy to abuse.

Me, I'm a wierd guy, I strongly believe that serving a customer is a business transaction: I supply goods and service, and the customer compensates me, each party is equal: That is, no party is superior to another, and therfore no party is inferior to another.

The customer is abusing the situation, and when she doesn't get what she wants she screams at the employee and infront of othe customers. Is the customer right to do so?

Is the customer always right?
My definition of the impossible or just plumb crazy is trying to please everyone all the time--basically every customer who walked in through my doors since I first opened up.

Is the customer always right?
Well, I can come halfway to those who say the customer is, and agree that the customer should leave the place _*thinking*_ that they're right......
Look, when you go to large public events or places, it is a prudent thing to keep your wallet and valuables secure, thieves and pickpockets are out there.

When you open a restaurant to the public, you are open to customers, but also open to thieves and opportunists. I've been in this biz for 27 years now, 14 of them with my own biz, and I believe in the "2/10" rule.

That is, about 2% of all customers are outright thieves, specifically coming in with the intention of not paying (shoplifting, dine & dash, importing hair, glass shards, insects, credit card fraud, etc) and about 10% are opportunists.

What's an opportunist? A customer who sees an opportunity not to pay full price.

For example in my shop, I sell chocolates and pastries, at least once a week I get it: Customer buys product, pays up, and is happy untill s/he looks at the cash tape reciept.
First question: "Is this place a franchise or a branch?"
No, I am idependant, although I take pride in a nice, well designed store
Second question: " Then why are you charging me tax?"
Well dearie, because it's the law?
"Can't you just forget the tax, or give me a 15% discount?"
Well dearie, I could mark everything up by 15% and do it your way, but it wouldn't be fair to everyone else.
The customer wants the opportunity NOT to pay tax because I'm not a franchise, therefore I'm a small business owner and meant to be taken advantage of. This has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of my goods or service
Is the customer right to think/do so?

My wife is a petite Asian with an accent. Upon hearing the accent about 10% immediately want to bargain, inspite of clearly advertised prices . When I have other Asian women without accents working for me, or when I work up front, this only happens about 1% of the time.
Is the customer right to want to bargain in a store with fixed prices?

Fund raising......
At least twice a week I get fundraisers. Some are intelligent and can pitch a good yarn. I volunteer my time at local schools, provide free product for auctions, allow space for posters and pamphlets. Yet least once a month I get hit over the head:
"HI, I'm from....(name of school, fundraiser, etc). We have over X amount of members. The reason we don't come to your store is because you don't work with us....."
Well dearie, it would suicidal and probably illegal if I insisted that everyone who buys from me MUST donate to, say the Haitian relief fund or Aids research. Yet, this type of aggressive "fundraising" approach is more and more common.
Is it right for the customer to demand this?

I'm a far cry away from poutine, so I'd better get off my soap box now.....


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## headless chicken (Apr 28, 2003)

This lady is apparently an antagonist. 

The manager on our branch site across the street from us reported the same individual causing a **** about our soup spoons that caused a big backup at their small unit with only 1 cashier. Threatend to report her to the district manager because they wouldn't give her a larger soup spoon that our supplier can't or won't allow us to purchase...which btw they don't have any. 

Well the damage has been done and its too late. I've suggested to my unit manager to investigate into other section of our unit to see if shes done the same and recommend a permanent ban on her so she doesn't cause another **** putting another black eye in someone else's work record.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Well headless, looks like I'm the only one who's going to reply to you.

To those who say "Give the customer the extra fries and cheese, it's only a couple of bucks fer crying out loud", I say: Look after your other customers...

If you or your manager buckled in and gave pyscho-queen what she wanted, guaranteed that two or more other customers in the dining room would be "disgruntled". Everyone in the dining room got a show with thier dinner, don't think this was a coincidence on pyscho-queen's part... The other customers paid the same price for the same item, why does pyscho-queen get the extra treatment? Should they too, demand extra portions? Should they throw a hissy-fit too? 

In any case, a restaurant has every right to refuse service to customers it deems unfit--at least in Canada anyway. Don't let anyone tell you different......


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## pembroke (Sep 26, 2009)

Can't you kindly invite her to dine elsewhere in future? Sometimes it's best to ask inconsolable customers to not come back. 

'The customer is always right' isn't a blank check for every village idiot to be unreasonable or to harass and humiliate hard working chefs and wait staff.....

Sometimes you must draw the line between what's reasonable and what's not. 
If a customer wants a liter of gravy and is prepared to pay extra then give them a bowl and soup spoon; if they want it for free then that's clearly unreasonable.....the restaurant didn't get it's food for free and the staff aren't volunteers. 

Here in Europe politeness is next to godliness, at least until the customers become rude; at that point they are asked to leave. Simple.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

I really want to discus this with you, BDL.
If this is your business philosophy and it works for you in your restaurant or catering biz or whatever it is that o/o, then great. But if you want everyone else to believe in this philosophy, you need to elaborate a bit on it, and give applications in real situations.

Pity headless. First he gets hit over the head at work--abused by a customer and then given the double standard by his superiors of having a black mark against him AND a ban on the person who gave him that mark (A double standard if there ever as one...), but now he's asking us--industry professionals for advice.

What have we given him? That's it's his fault and that he should smarten up? Have we given him examples on how to handle such customers?

Please, lets discuss this.


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## headless chicken (Apr 28, 2003)

My suggested ban on her isn't a double standard. I have reports of the same individual doing the same thing on other sections and company policy is to report harassment under the quote "Nobody here is paid to be harassed at work" so all I'm asking from my management is to abide by that policy they supposedly take seriously. I'm just waiting for them to say "that only applies to internal matters" and I can corner them on other reports of their harassment on fellow employees, especially from our director. 

Not to derail my thread on the subject but I want to take advantage of this scenario. My chef reports how some individuals at head office of this company are "surprised" to hear of some of our issues at our account, we've been getting a number of weird visits from auditors and head office junks. I've been trying to build a history here but its hard when management seem to be doing all they can do bring this account down. I refuse to lose my job because I have a director who thinks an oven can replace the boiling capabilities of a steam kettle then pins the blame of faulty equipment on the workers.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Pump, 

Check your PMs. 

BDL


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

O.K. so you're short staffed that day. Were you waiting on tables or is this a widow pickup? How is it that the customer can approach you?

The food went out according to franchise standards, right?

The customer starts screaming at you, there MUST have been a manager or other employee to see the whole thing?

Just trying to picture the scene here


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## headless chicken (Apr 28, 2003)

Its a cafeteria so service and pickup at the window. Caf has several sections so there are several lineups before you hit the cashier to pay. No manager(s) around and the section I was covering is operated by a single person. Happened during lunch rush so I did have a lineup. Other items I needed to concern myself with at the same time was putting away all the stock that had been sitting out since the morning and running food to our branch site across the street. I would usually cover breaks as well but I put my foot down on that, it was definitely not possible as well as all the small nitnack stuff everyone usually bugs me for like changing the syrups on the pepsi dispenser or the CO2 tanks, finding stuff in the stock room thats in pain sight, etc.


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

Without customers, there is no need for portion control !


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## theages (Feb 7, 2010)

Wow, this is always a sensitive/difficult subject. We have approached it from several directions. Our solution is along the lines of what DiscGolfJoe recommended.

First, we always try to please a customer if it is in our power to do so w/o hurting other customers. So if they have a special request which will put the whole Line behind and impact other customers our response is, "Yes we can do this, but it will take x_amount of time. Is that ok?" And we tack on however amount of extra time it will take to do it right w/o impacting service. Or, "Certainly we can add this to your meal, but it will cost an extra $$. Is that ok?" Communication is the key. In the case of the extra gravy there should be a charge in your system for "extra gravy". Not to do so is an oversight by management.

Second, we always charge an appropriate price. Very few extra items are free, especially if it is something which may set a precedence w/ other customers.

Third, we track complaints from customers and when we find a customer who consitently complaints we put them on a "no comp" list on the computer (we put their name, phone number, the credit card number they use, and alternate names [for real! some have the same phone number but use a different name!]) and a manager will let them know that they will get no more free meals from us for any reason. They usually try it again a few times, whine and complain, but we hold to our guns and they eventually find somewhere else to "steal" from.

Fourth, if a customer shouts, carries on, swears, etc at any employee then a manager is required to address that customer. Their concerns are politely, professionally addressed, and if they continue to be abusesive then they are required to leave the premises. We are lucky here in that we have security on site and they escort abusive guests to the door, and sometimes they are permanetly banned.

Fifth, we seek to always please our customers. In so doing, our first step is to assertain if the customer is sincere in wanting to be pleased. Or are they looking for free stuff? This is highly subjective, but our model is of course to give the benefit of the doubt always to the customer and go the extra mile to please them in a responsible manner. But if you offered to try to accomodate this woman and explained the business need to charge extra for extra product and she had a fit then she is an unreasonable person looking for free stuff. She will probably complain everytime she comes in so a business is better off w/o her, and so are your other guests.

Lastly, look for another job!!


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## theethical chef (Jan 29, 2010)

I agree with the ages this is how it should be handled every time, yes the customer is a p.i.t.a. but how do you feel when you are slighted. I know in the rarer circumstance that I go out to eat I get annoyed by unattentive or slow services and outrage when I see menu items listed that are high profit margins for the restaurant. I mean I've seen a pulled pork sandwich at one restaurant for 12.99 this is a ridiculous price as many of us know that the product cost on a 8 oz portion is around a dollar. Anyhow if the customer wants more give it to them, just charge them appropriately. In my operation people always wanted extra sauce or to substitute sides, I always gave it them without hesitation, the relatively low difference in product cost was worth the repeat business (to me). Of course entrees were $20-$33 so if it cost me .50 more to keep someone happy then it wasn't having a tremendous impact on my profitability, I also think it's important to note that we made all our money in catering, during slower catering months breaking even was a good thing but would see 15-20% return during busy catering months. In a low average sale cafeteria environment I can see that .50 addition to cost ruining food cost if it was repeated enough times. Anyhow my advice to headless chicken would be to find a job cooking where he doesn't haven't to deal directly with the customers, it seems like they're attitudes can be really aggrivating to him, there are plenty of cooking jobs out there where you can just cook and not have to have client interactions, he seems to have a passion for cooking (if not those 2,000 posts are in vain which I find hard to beleive) and would be successful in many operations. Also the place where headless is working seems to be poorly managed which creates a negative work atmosphere which in turn can have an effect on your personal/ family life and on your health. I as a manager am always trying to be a positive influence to those around me, I am enthusiastic about my craft which spreads throughout our operation. I also try to help people improve their status in the company or in there life, dishwashers I train to be cooks, cooks to be leads, leads to be sous chefs, sous chefs to do my job (somewhere else) but I always train to the best of my ability, which in general has led to a more content, more productive and more appreciative workforce. There have been instances throughout my career where more responsibilities hasn't instantly meant more salary which has backfired on me a few times, but in general people are the happiest when they feel that they are moving forward, money is but an extention of personal satisfaction with their continued improvements. Hope this helps I really do, I am just trying to share my perspective on the matter.
Good Luck,
T.E.C.eace:


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

The KM and I were livid at the end of our shift today. Two of our servers just came back from vacation and sauntered in fifteen minutes before we closed, and really.. they work at our place so you'd think they'd know better than to pull that... it wouldn't have been so bad if they could just accept what is on the menu but no.. they have a crapload of mods every time they order even when it's their tabs, so we were screwed. While it's annoying at times we accomodate members of the public who walk in at that time, but come on... our own staff.. they should know better. I set about cleaning and I let the KM get the stuff out and he even went over to them and told them how disrespectful to us they were by coming in at that time... maybe he and I on our day off should go in and screw them over as they are closing.. then they will know how it feels... UGH


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

Maybe because most of us are in the service industry we do some times go a bit over board with the guest is always right. 
So what?
I don't know about any one else and to be honest I didn't read through all of the posts in this thread but my philosophy is that the guest is always right. How we handle situations like this can have a major impact on our business. Forget the customer at hand for a moment. What about the other three customers that over heard you tell the problematic guest to take a hike or that they got just what they ordered?
If I was one of those guests I may have left never to return. It's not always just about the problematic guest but about those watching, listening and who they talk to. 
I suspect most of us depend on repeat customers.
I was recently reading the Blog from an individual that makes products some of us might use in the kitchen regarding a "difficult" customer. Not really in the service industry like us but for the most part dealing with items that are not overly expensive either.
He had sent out a product that was clearly defective and even put up photos of the item. According to his Blog the customer contacted him to let him know of the problem and stated that he wanted a replacement. Not a refund just a replacement. The owner of the company got his feathers ruffled at least in part because the buyer did not "ask" but rather just stated he wanted a replacement. The seller then refused to stand behind his product deciding that the customer is not always right. The owner of this company didn't stop there but instead started ranting on his Blog about the customer even going as far as calling the buyer a thief and threatening to publish the customers name and personal information on the Internet or even sue him.
All over a transaction no larger than a nice steak.
Not a great business model IMO. Not because of the difficult customer but because of the way the problem was handled and the fact that he clearly won't stand behind his product.
I think many of us here have dealt with a problematic customer that we may have liked to treat the same way. However what we might like to do and what we should do are not always the same. I try to kill them with kindness. A steak or a few FF's won't break me. At the end of the year if I combine all of the complaints maybe I do get taken for a ride a time or two.
I can live with that and take comfort knowing that the vast majority of those problematic guests left happy irrespective of whether I/we failed or they were just having a bad day.
If a guest is intoxicated, high, verbally abusive, loud or vulgar then I ask them to leave and I eat the bill. 
Asta la vista
Good bye
auf wiedersehen 
Ciao
Bonne journée
Lehit and please don't lt the door hit you on the way out.

Giving others the benefit of the doubt, treating them with respect and keeping SERVICE in the service industry is not a bad thing.


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## blueicus (Mar 16, 2005)

I dunno, if I saw a customer in front of me getting preferential treatment because they acted impetuously, I'd be pretty miffed that they kow towed to bad behaviour.


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## greyeaglem (Apr 17, 2006)

I'm very tired tonight and didn't read all the posts, so maybe someone touched on this. This would be like me going into Denny's, saying the eggs on my Slam look kind of small so I'd like an extra one... First, Headless, if they want you to sign this slip for your pemanant file, I would refuse. I would write on the slip that I was following company policy and don't feel I was wrong in doing so and therefore won't sign. If you would have increased the portion, that's about the time one of your co-workers would decide this woman was a friend of yours and report you for giving extra food to your friends. If the customer was dissatisfied, then maybe corporate needs to look at the item in question and correct the situation. (Where was your manager, or are you it?) From your post I gathered that small portions on this item has been a recurring complaint prompting other employees to increase potions. The solution would seem to be to increase the portion and charge more, or offer a small and large portion priced accordingly. Good luck getting that done, but it would make everyone's life easier I think. I would definitley protest the write-up though under the damed-if-I-do, damned-if-I-don't law. Also, I'm glad I wasn't the one who had to deal with her on the larger spoon issue, as I know there would be no way I could have refrained from making a comment about a larger spoon being needed to correlate with the size of her mouth. I know I would never be able to resist that. If we let customers dictate how we run our businesses, we'd be out of business. I once had two guys tell me how we should give every customer a free drink. I found out later the two had split a promotional $2 shrimp cocktail. I was lucky I didn't know that when they were giving me advice, because I know I would have said "So I should give away $9 worth of drinks to sell a $2 shrimp cocktail? Yep, that's how I make the big money! To touch on an earlier post about other customers overhearing, I have had more than one evening out spoiled by having to listen to another customer whine about something the staff has done everything they could to rectify. They just wanted to whine, and I didn't want to listen to them. I have also had situations where I have bent over backwards to please someone who wasn't having any only to have other customers tell me they wished I'd shown them the door so they didn't have to listen to it.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

A lot of good points on both sides and it just proves one thing. We all must be a little "off" for being in this business! :lol:
In the end there's just no way to please every one but no matter what the issue is it's all in the way it's handled. 
In this case it seems like the bigger issue is the employer who appears to be setting their staff up to fail.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Shall we phrase it this way?
*
Customers sould leave the place thinking they're always right.
*

Otherwise it's just too "four legs good, two legs baaaad" for me.....

For me customers are like water:

Water, the giver of life, no living organism on earth can survive wthout it...
BUT,
You can drown in an inch of water, you can get sick or die from a million water borne or water related diseases.
Watch out, nothing's perfect.....


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## greyeaglem (Apr 17, 2006)

Nicely put, Pump.


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