# White stuff on my vinegar



## butzy (Jan 8, 2010)

I got a batch of beer vinegar on the go, according to the recipe here https://honest-food.net/beer-vinegar-recipe/
I used a local lager and a red wine vinegar mother.
We're now 3-4 weeks further and I am noticing some white growth on the top.
It looks strange, not like mold, but almost more like salt crystals (which shouldn't be possible)?
Anyone knows what this is?
And how to proceed? Let it be? Syphon to another bottle? Throw?
It's difficult to take a good picture, but it's like this:


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

My first guess is the mix isn't getting enough air. Coffee filters work great. Cheesecloth is good too. Especially since the opening of the carboy isn't letting a lot of air in even with no cover. Change the cap and wait. You may have killed the mother but if not, the vinegar will correct itself. You'll know after another few days.


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## butzy (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks,
I figured the handkerchief would let through enough air.
I've taken it off and I'll wait a couple days.
So you think not enough oxygen for the mother to produce? And the white bits? Is Mother dying?
This is her now...


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

I can't tell from the picture but I will say that if it looks kind of like you left a jellyfish in the carboy, that's the mother. 
I can see something that looks like mold but hard to say what it is. There should be a bit of funky, vinegary smell. After a day or two or three if the mother is still alive, what was on the surface will disappear and the mother will grow in size and become a noticeable, slimy mass. If you notice no different activity after about three days, the mother is probably dead. 
I had a white wine vinegar working for several weeks with no apparent changes. I added some fresh mother and it took off. So if it doesn't appear active, add some fresh mother. You can strain if first to get rid of whatever is floating on it if you want but if the mother develops successfully, she'll eat it. 
Another challenge can be too much alcohol when making alcohol based vinegars like wine and beer. In that case, many people water the wine down a bit so the mother isn't overwhelmed at first and has a chance to develop. A good mother stays sober, you know. 
The appearance of fruit/vinegar flies is a good sign the vinegar is doing well. They appear out of nowhere so a rubber band around the cover is a good idea. 
You are essentially playing around with microbes. Vinegar is an aerobic process. Fermenting sauerkraut is an anaerobic process so the bacteria are different but the process is similar. Good cooties vs. bad cooties. As long as you keep paying attention,you can adjust things to help the good bacteria until the process takes off. 
A container with a spigot is a great thing to use. A glass beverage dispenser works great. The spigot lets you draw some off to taste it without disturbing the mother which is usually floating on top. 
It is all a bit of trial and error but as I said, correctable as you go along.


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## butzy (Jan 8, 2010)

I had a good look around and there is definitely a jelly substance at the bottom, so the mother is visible, but not floating.
I used 4% beer, so the alcohol percentage is not too high.
Should I maybe feed her some more?


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

Give it a day or three. Smell it. Taste a little if you can draw some off. Every thing takes time so no matter what you do, you have to wait for effects to be noticeable. Nothing wrong with feeding the mother more if you want to. 
I should also mention that temperature is important. About 70 degrees F. is good. 
It's all a matter of time and temp and even under perfect conditions will take a few weeks to complete.


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## butzy (Jan 8, 2010)

Last night, I thought Mother looked thirsty, so I did give her another beer.
Now we will wait and see


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## butzy (Jan 8, 2010)

Mother is now floating on the top....
I take that as a good sign


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

That is a good sign. She's working. You can use some when ever you like. The vinegar is done when it tastes like vinegar and it's a taste you like. I can't think of a specific guideline other than that. The mother on the bottom generally means there isn't much more for her to do. Development time is variable so you are the best judge of when you think it's done.


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## butzy (Jan 8, 2010)

We are a bit further now.
After a couple of days, there still was no vinegar taste.
I transferred to a dark container with a wider opening on top, covered with a loose tea-towel and waited a bit longer.
It now definitely tastes acidic, but it also has a fairly firm white layer on the top. No visible spores or anything.
It's almost like a disk that takes up 3/4 of the jar surface.
I tried taking a picture but that didn'tt come out well (white top layer in a vessel that's white on the inside is a photographic challenge)
Does this sound like something to worry about? Any idea what it can be?


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

I think it is probably a harmless mold. I also think your vinegar may be done. The white surface develops after the mother is finished. Just skim it off.
If you have a ph strip, test it. If memory serves, a reading of about 4 should be vinegar.
A key thing to remember when making vinegar is that you get much more flavor and less harshness with better ingredients. So perhaps not as "Vinegary" as regular vinegar. You can't/don't have to wait until it is very sharp. If the ph measures correctly, it's done.
You could skim off the white stuff and add more mother for a day or two just for the heck of it but I don't think I'd worry about it. If it tests out and tastes good, then it's good.


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## butzy (Jan 8, 2010)

pH is 3.8
Removed the white stuff and it really stayed together like a disk. 
Floats perfectly well. It even resisted being flushed down the toilet 

Now how to keep it?
Boil? Refrigerate? 
Or do so with part and add more beer to the remainder and see if mother comes back to float (or did I flush her down the toilet?)


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

Is/was it a SCOBY? Most common in kombucha but not unheard of in some other ferments.

My best guess.


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

Congratulations. You have vinegar. I'd refrigerate it. If you boil it you kill the natural properties. Which is okay but then you can't make more with it. Which is option number 2. Set aside some for making more vinegar and refrigerate the rest.
I would not use the vinegar for canning as it is home made and you need a reliable acidity for canning. But your vinegar should make an interesting vinaigrette or flavoring agent. 
PS. It's hard to tell over the internet but you might have flushed the mother. No worries as you can add a bit of Braggs or beer and and get it going again but what you have is ready to use.


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## butzy (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks!
Till yesterday I didn't know what a scoby was. I looked it up and it could have been, though I can't be 100% sure.
It was like a disk, didn't tear by holding it at one side. White (almost pure white) on the top and a bit brownish at the bottom.

I'll refrigerate most of the vinegar and use a little bit to see if I can restart it.
Definitely in a jar with a wide mouth from now on.
No braggs here. Almost everything is finished off with sulfites (inclusive of the wines)


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