# Handling a rude or uncaring server?



## nicko (Oct 5, 2001)

I think we have all had our share of rude servers, and I was wondering how you handle it? In general I usually try to stay pretty calm, and just ask for what I need, but I make a point to let the chef know. In almost every instance that I have had really rude service I never went back to the restuarant. 

Recently spoke to a good friend who ate at a long time favorite in Chicago. On the way out of the restuarant the server stopped him in the middle of the dinning room (really) and in a voice loud enough for everyone to hear asks "was there a problem with the service?" He said no and the server proceeded to ask "well then why did you leave me so a small tip" (remember this is in the middle of the restaurant and everyone can hear). My friend is a good tipper and told her that unless he made an error he doesn't think that he left a small tip. The server holds up the credit card slip and shows him the tip. My friend politely points out to the server that his name is Vince and the signature on the slip is Chris. It was another table. Funniest thing I ever heard.


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

I refuse to leave a tip and notify one of the personnel of the rude server.

P.S. Nicko, I sent you an email to contact ALLIEDKENCO.COM for information on smokers.

-T


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

When someone's rude to me, I give it right back to 'em.


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

I talk to the foh manager. It's worked the few times I've had to do it. Otherwise, I leave a poor tip- usually 5-10%.


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## momoreg (Mar 4, 2000)

One experience I recall was at a local Indian restaurant, my friend and I had just finished, and the waiter took our plates, quickly gave us the check, and told us to pay immediately because there were people waiting for our table. He didn't bother aking us if we were done. I had to tell the manager about that. We obviously left no tip,and never returned.


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## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

I will tell a manager about rude service, every time. If the waiter is really obnoxious then I will ask for a different server. I will, though, always leave a tip. If you don't then the waiter may just think that you are an idiot and have forgotten. Leave them $.50, that really sends a message to them, but make sure that you are punishing a waiter for his/her short comings, not for things that may be well beyond their control such as long waits for food, 86'ed items, etc.


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## david jones (Jan 15, 2000)

I generally talk to the manager when there's a significant problem with a server. MANY times, the manager's a knucklehead, too. I suppose I'm justifying bad behavior on the part of servers, but if there's no training or support from management, the job can be very frustrating. 

As an FOH manager, I try to listen to each server at their tables, to read their body language,etc. You can tell when a server is taking an attitude to the table. I also look over charge tips during check-out. If a server is consistently being tipped at or below average, it's worth a conversation. 

The tip anecdote is hilarious. That server should have been terminated.


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## craftynatalie (Jan 11, 2006)

My husband always tells me to wait until after our meal to make any complaints so our food is not "de-filed" in any way. We usually just leave a poor tip although his idea of a bad tip and my idea of one are very different. He starts everyone off at 20% at goes down from there, I start at the bottom and they earn their increase upto 20%.


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## josephreese (Jan 3, 2002)

That's an interesting observation. Until I read that, I didn't stop to consider that I approach tipping in a similar way as your husband. Thank you for triggering the realization.


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## robinchev (Jan 13, 2006)

<sigh>
I seem to be a poor service magnet. Everyone I know comments on it, and thinks it's hilarious, particularly because of what I do for a living. I'm a pretty tolerant person when it comes down to the place being busy, but HONESTLY!!! I really have no patience for apathy. If you don't want to do the job... don't. Why do I get the server who drops my meal? Or seems to believe it's thier job to demonstrate our table's obvious inferiority to thier divine selves? (Why, yes, I DO actually know how to pronounce gnocchi..)
Why is the only bubblehead in the place who thinks it's ok to be incompetent if you're CUTE always assigned to my section? The stories I could tell...(stroking her grey beard...)
So What Do I Do? 
Well, first of all, I don't believe it's a contest between myself and the server, nor am I being paid to train him/her... so I simply don't get into it with them. And the one time it was so bad that I didn't tip at all? <never a good idea to be rude to me...> I went to the hostess station at the front door on my way out and asked to see the manager. When he arrived, the conversation went sorta like this...
"We just finished our meal, and that young man over there was our server. I didn't tip him... and this is why....."


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

If it happens EVERY time you go out, maybe you should take a look at yourself a bit more to see if there is anything you could be doing to "invoke" bad service. Maybe you are a mean person, or you give off a snobby attitude, I don't know, but if it is indeed every time maybe you should consider more than just the service staff. 

And it's great that YOU know how to pronounce gnocci, but not everyone does. Maybe it was a pre-emptive strike on the servers part, because he/she got REALLY tired of people saying they want the sauteed gee-knock-ee. 

For example, at the last place I worked we had this really great flavored iced tea we had brewed for the restaurant. It was an "apricot-chardonnay" tea. Really good. But it was the only kind we had (no "regular" iced tea). So, that means that every one that orderedit (unless I knew them) had to be told that our tea was flavored. So after about the 1000000th time someone said, "Oh my, your tea has wine it it?" Or some variation of that, I just started telling people that our tea was apricot flavored. 

but hey, just some thoughts, not trying to offend you.


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## robinchev (Jan 13, 2006)

Well...ouch!
Idle curiosity... what do you suggest about a person's personality if you _are _trying to offend them?
No, I'm not a mean or snobby person... actually, I usually lighten the moment when the server is just having an off day and shows some regret for the error. But the topic was rude, uncaring servers. 
As for the pronounciation thing, well, yes, alot of people CAN'T pronounce menu items. But it's been my experience from both sides of the table that your tip is never positively affected by embarrassing your guest.

I suppose that's the joy of written posts... even smileys can't necessarily show tone of voice... my post was meant to be on the light-hearted side.
And yes, I am a poor service magnet. Most of the time it's pretty funny...yet I still feel that if you can't put your personal issues aside long enough to keep from ruining a guests experience, you probably shouldn't be serving.


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## deltadoc (Aug 15, 2004)

Quite a few years ago a co-worker friend and I went to a McDonald's for an early lunch. The girl behind the counter was totally rude, obnoxious, and when my friend mentioned he knew the owner, she said something along the lines of "I could care less, if you don't like the service here you don't have to come here".

So we sat down with our food, and the owner saw my friend, and immediately came over to gnosh with us. He actually asked how everything was, and I told him "The server could stand to improve her attitude some!" The owner looked at my friend Brad for confirmation, and Brad just nodded his head and said "It was pretty poor".

We never found out what happened after we left, but I'll never forget the looks on all of the servers behind the counter when they saw the 
boss sitting with us!

doc


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## andrew hope (Feb 3, 2006)

Iv found that better retuarants tend to have better waiters/waitresses that are willing to work hard for their tips.


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Hi Andrew  Unfortunatly (for me  ) I've been finding the opposite is true for myself, in the Chicago area. Since the wife and I have two small children now we don't have as much time to go out to eat as we once did. So, we find a nice trade off is going to nicer establishments. 

Most of the time we get good attentive service with pleasing attitudes. Now I'm not asking for much...I generally start (like craftynatalie's husband) at 20%. If there are no major snags during the meal...that's what they get. The waiter/waitress really has to deserve any less (although I may rethink this). If the waiter(ess) is missing throughout the meal or if they've got a major attitude problem I'll leave less than 10% tip. But they've really got to do bad.

I'm not a rich person by any means, but I do love to eat good food. Most times I recieve subpar service or food, I chalk it up to the experience. In the future I may not eat or recommend a certain restaurant. But that's usually the extent of it. I really don't want to sit there and listen to a manager make excuses for the meal I had. I had my experience and now it's over...I'd like to have a cup of coffee now and move on. (As I said) Perhaps I'll rethink this and my tipping method in the future. But most pplaces would still get a decent (20%) tip.

Back on topic:crazy: . I've been eating more and more in downtown Chicago area...and I've noticed just horrible attitudes there. I'm beginning to think it may be something inherent in Chicago dining. This may be a small exageration of my recent experiences, but it does seem like it may be establishing a new trend.

For my birthday, the wife and I usually go out to Le Francais(in Wheeling). But this year we're going to visit Tru. I'm hoping that the poor Chicago service trend has ended. Which...(just guessing) I'm sure it has. I'm looking forward to eating at Tru. Although...


dan


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## mezzaluna (Aug 29, 2000)

We ate at Tru a couple of years ago. The service was sublime and very attentive. Here's the link to the thread: http://www.cheftalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9347


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## gonefishin (Nov 6, 2004)

Thanks for the link Mezzaluna. That thread was actually part of the reason I decided to visit Tru opposed to some others  Thanks!

dan


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## johnrov (Oct 12, 2004)

I had a bad experience the other day, not with my server but with another. We were eating and drinking with some friends and had paid our bill. We sat there for another 20 minutes talking (this is a bar/restaurant). We made sure people weren't waiting for a table. As we got up to leave, my friend said "ready to go?" A server was walking by and commented, "It's about f&*(ing time..." I couldn't actually believe what I was hearing. Anyway, I had had more beers than would serve me in a confrontation so I e-mailed the place the next day. Great response from them and two free meals coming but I won't go back to that location again.

But normally I will just adjust my tip down from 20% and not go back. Even in Pittsburgh, which isn't a food mecca, there are plenty of quality restaurants to choose from .

As for Chicago, we went to Charlie Trotters last summer. The service was excellent. It didn't matter that we told the sommelier we were on a budget for wine, she was very helpful and friendly. Our entire experience was great.


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## aprilb (Feb 4, 2006)

She would never tip unless it was extreme service. Her comment about it was: "I can at least expect that my food will get from the kitchen to my table, or I can go get it myself."

What happened to 10% tip? 

There is one exception: when a "WAITER" waits. The description is: 'wait'. Is attentive to the room, his or her tables. Waits for input. All you have to do is glance at your server and they come to your table to find out what you need. They make the dining experience a "want to do it again" thing. That's what hospitality is all about. 

Somebody is mediocre or bad? Do you really believe they deserve a tip? It's reward for being a doof. Maybe if people like that don't get tips maybe they'll get a clue. 

I agree about the bad service magnets. I've had similar problems and I'm one of the nicest people you could meet unless you give me BAD SERVICE or a bad attitude! (LOL) Then you get a penny on the table under an upside down full water glass. 

If you are in the service hospitality industry I don't give a s*** if you are on your period, broke up with your boyfriend or girlfriend, got a parking ticket, broke a nail, in the middle of menopause, tired of the same questions about tea, or are just tired of dealing with someone wanting an extra serving of mayo. THAT'S YOUR JOB! If you can't handle being attentive and personable then go do something else.

You will give me the extra pickle, you will smile and bring coffee and offer drinks and make the experience special. I can get all the grumpy I can stand making food at home for my kids. If I go out I want someone else to bring my food from the kitchen and someone else washing the dishes and do it nicely.

I'm a firm believer in doing what you love. Even if it's not what you ultimately want to do, at least like it while you do it. Or if you're a server, at least ACT like you like it. Like waiters in NYC working to support their acting career. 

April


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## ma facon (Dec 16, 2004)

April, You just hit 10 on my top ten list of real people. God Bless you !!!

I am one that does not put up with any bull. Straight forward and truthful. Some folks can't stand the truth because they haven't chosen to deal with it and it just keeps pushing them around. Ha Ha Ha ! ! !:lol:


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## ricib (Jun 28, 2005)

I think that in some cases, the longer a server is there at a particular place, the more comfortable they feel in slacking or jerking customers around. Doesn't say much for the whole establishment really, but in the Restaurant biz the turnover, 
as many of us know, is VERY high. Unfortunately it's not always as high as it should be with the wait staff.

I'm a firm believer in the penny tip if the service is terrible, and I usually won't go back, no matter what. However I was taught to place the penny upside down, which might but probably doesn't help get the point across. I don't mind tipping, and if the service is good, I have been known to tip way more than I should.

There's also a thing such as too much "service". I don't like being bugged every 5-10 minutes by someone. It doesn't help a conversation with your dinner guests very much.

Whenever I would eat at the restaurant I worked at, (I'm still not sure why I'd give my money BACK to the owners), I always used the best waiter or waitress for my table. That probably accounts for why I some of the wait staff didn't care for me too much. Because I wasn't spreading the money to them.

Servers can be your best friend, or your worst enemy. Not too much in between ground there.


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## diane (Mar 24, 2006)

"There's also a thing such as too much "service". I don't like being bugged every 5-10 minutes by someone. It doesn't help a conversation with your dinner guests very much."

Absolutely ricib, it drives me crazy when they pounce every time you put something in your mouth. A few months ago we spent $458 on a meal (incl. wine) for 3 + tip. The meal was sublime, and so was the waiter.


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## diane (Mar 24, 2006)

.....and while I am on the subject I have noticed in some places the service faulters with ones progress thru grey to white hair. ;Þ


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## diane (Mar 24, 2006)

I have just come back from Invercargill, that is deep south island. I went with the lady I travel with, and who organises everything. And tells me when to shut up. ;Þ It was business of course. I wanted a hotel, so we didn't have to go out at night foraging. The Ascot filled the bill. 

The service was kindly, friendly, so tea and toast was a morning pleasure. But not at all overbearing. The dinner hour was a pleasure too. The service personal were somewhat guache. Which mattered not at all, since they were so jolly nice. One evening our server changed my order from the usual soup to stir fried veg. on her own initiative. She said it would be better for me. A woman my age, perhaps a little younger. How it made me smile! There was no stir fried on the menu.

Bluff oysters are in season at this time. Small sweet and not for me. However Susan Marie had chowders she could stand a spoon up in. Mainly oyster, mussel and scollop, prawns, bits of cray. All whole. "cept the cray. That was cut up. They are big down there. So are the shellfish. I think they only use the fish stock and cream to make an excuse for soup. Anyway, we had fun.


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## hotchef (Jul 25, 2006)

why didn't you say right from the beginning that your tea is apricot flavored? than you did not have to reply 100 000 times. come on guys, wake up!


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## mrdelicious (Aug 28, 2006)

Hey Chefs!

Most of you got it very clear... if there's a pattern... look in the mirror... if it's a fluke (and most of the time it is...) CONTACT THE MANAGEMENT.... Be very specific and stay calm. If you just rant... then it's you... if you give feedback... hopefully the problem will be fixed.

Sometimes, if it's a place you want to return to, they may even comp a meal... the bottom line is that if it's a place with a great menu and yucky service... COMPLAIN... vice versa... who cares?

Just make sure you stay calm.


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## whispers (Jul 20, 2007)

First off, Chicago is home to well over 100,000 restaurants were the front of the house staff (servers) until just a couple a weeks ago made only $3.90/hour. meaning their entire paychecks look like this $0.00 every two weeks. No paycheck they live entirely off of tips alone. And if the server in question was experienced enough to handle multiple guests and multiple tables at the same time which I am presuming was at a dinner or lunch rush (busiest time in a rest.) for your friend to give them a good tip why would you think anyone would believe your story that this server could handle all that get a good tip from your friend and then all of the sudden make a complete *** out of themselves because they mis ID'd your friend. They had the capabilites & experience to take care of your friend in the midst of that semi-chaotic atmosphere (lunch or dinner rush) and now you want us to believe they didn't know what table was leaving and what table left what tip???????????????????????????????????????

I call <coughbullshitcough>. But tell your friend we now make $4.50/hour so instead getting a check for ZERO DOLLARS AND ZERO CENTS we now will get a check for ZERO DOLLAR AND ZERO CENTS.

As far as handling a bad server or rude server. Here is how you go about that. Rather than getting into a confrontation with your server or heading off a future confrontation like the one your friend "supposivedly" had the first thing you should do is inform the manager on duty. This will get their boss involved and usually get an immediate rectification. If you come across a rude server and the manager elects not to do anything about then a little knowledge and examples is all your going to need. For example if my server was rude and if any of this occured I would point it out to them and watch how quickly they change their approack. And I would say something like this: You know, (whatever their name is) you have been rude to me and my party all night long, you haven't anticipated any of my needs tonight, and your in the business of accomodating me. And by talking with your other co-workers off to the side while my drinks sit on the bar awaiting delivery, giving me nasty looks, a coarse tone, and wrecking my night at your establishment isnt really the best way to accomodate me. However, if this story is true, your friend handled it just fine. If it were me though I would have gone a step farther and gotten in touch with a manager and after being completely called out like that I would have wanted my tip voided out and refunded.

We may live off tips, but our job is to accomodate and ensure a pleasant experience while your at our establishment. And that is how we earn our living. If we dont do our job than we aren't entitled to your genorosity!!! Even though there are quite a few service industry ppl out there that believe no matter what they should be given 20% regardless. Those are usually the worst servers you can find too, so there is no surprise as to why they want a guaranteed %.


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## jigz369 (Apr 20, 2007)

For me, I have found a simple solution. I proceed to ask the rude server if the chef is busy and if I could pop my head in the kitchen to give them the tip. The server usually gets that "deer in the headlights" look and directs me to the kitchen. I make a point of tipping the kitchen (when the food is up to snuff) appropriately, and leaving the server a simple insult of $0.05. Seems to speak volumes to the staff. Just my opinion though...


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## headless chicken (Apr 28, 2003)

I've rarely gone to a place where the service was beyond explination or redemption. I can understand a bit of what the servers go through, I get a lot of disgusting behavior from customers myself so I will try to cut them some slack. But I do have limits, like theres no need to take your frustrations out on someone who hasn't cause you issues. The worst I've gone through was reserving a table at Alice ***illis, waiting 30mins for the table, then finding out it was given away and it would be another 15mins for another table. I just walked out, it was my 18th birthday and I wasn't going to go through that.


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## risque cakes (Apr 20, 2007)

when I have bad service, I tip the minimum because I do NOT know the circumstances that made this a bad day for my server or other staff. 

But, I do reward good service with EXCELLENT tips! 

I have gone to places like the Cheesecake factory and have left a 20.00 tip on a check for 2.

It's like paying it foward, I made the server happy and they will treat the next service like gold, hoping for more of the same. lol

I'm one of those that believes in POSITIVE reinforcement!!!


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## jayme (Sep 5, 2006)

OMG- he really does KNOW the owner.... not just name dropping to try to get a discount.... LOL LOL

Personally, I am usually quite diplomatic with a bad server- and depending on the situation, I may even politely (but stern enough to get my point across) ask the server during the meal if we are having a problem with ______ (state the issue)? That usually fixes the problem- and the service is usually 100% better and I then be sure to thank the server and tip well. If not, then, like everyone else, I tip accordingly,


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## castironchef (Oct 10, 2005)

Agreed.

A case in point. This weekend, my wife whisked me away to Catalina Island. (Well, she tried to. The airline cancelled our flight out of Oakland after a few hours' delay and we had to drive all night, not getting to Newport Beach until after 3 a.m.!)

After FINALLY getting a chance to have a meal (considering the hassle mentioned above) some 24 hours after my last one, I was dismayed that we were seated at a station next to a party of 20, that was growing. Our waiter did the obligatory "I'll be right with you," but that wore off after 20 minutes without water, menus, etc.

I went to the manager and asked if it was fair for the waiter to have to deal with such a large group and us, too.

The waiter came around soon thereafter and I asked if he could handle us as well as the large (increasingly drunk, loud and obnoxious) party. He assured us that he could and then proceeded to give us GREAT service. Of course, we tipped accordingly.


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## dc sunshine (Feb 26, 2007)

CastIron,

I think its a case of a word to the wise at times ... 

DC

P.S. Glad you finally got to your surprise location - what a hassle! But cheers for persevering


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## snowfalldesigns (Jun 10, 2007)

Recently I took my mom and my two sisters out for my mom's birthday. It was lunchtime on a weekend and the restaurant was not busy. The guy was a completly arrogant d*ck. He made fun of me because I was ordering hot tea in the summer, he asked to take our order after he already had, he asked if we wanted dessert after he had already asked and we said we didn't. It took about 30 minutes between the time we were done eating to the time when we finally got up and told the hostess we needed our check (empty glasses the whole time). She had to find the guy and when he finally gave me the check, he had the gaul to say "you were supposed to pay me at the table". No crap! So I didn't leave him a tip, I've never had a waiter p*ss me off so much! Plus, we had a young child with us...when you have a 1 yr old, and you start putting your purses on the table, I think it means you want to leave!
Sorry! Had to rant!


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## shel (Dec 20, 2006)

I once had a waitress follow me to my car and demand a bigger tip. The service I got from her was pretty bad and I left her a small tip so she'd know I didn't "forget" to leave a tip.

Another time, under similar circumstances, the waiter actually followed my friend and me into the mens room to demand a larger tip. My recollection is that my friend tossed a $5.00 bill into the urinal.

Shel


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## american_suisse (Mar 9, 2007)

I rarely have poor servers...unless I'm in Paris. :lol: The few times that it has occured I simply get up from my seat and approach the seating host/ess or maitre d' and inform them that I wish to have a different server. If I am pressed for a reason, I give it in simple and plain. No yelling, no fuss, no big deal. Then I return to my seat. Should the same server appear again I simply inform them that they are no longer needed at this table and to please not return. It's amazing on how the poor service becomes fantastic service when you do that! I keep a little notebook where I write the names of the great servers and the poor ones as well as the resturant. Upon any return to the resturant I simply remind them that I do not want to be seated in that servers area.


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## cookie jim (Apr 24, 2007)

On a couple of occasions I have given the servers tip to the bus person and telling the manager what and why I did it.
I tell the busperson that he/she is the only one I see who knows what there doing........Cookie


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## shortstack (Aug 6, 2007)

The first thing I do when I get horrible service is try to make the best of it so it doesn't spoil my meal. I try to keep in mind that I don't know what else is going on and will still tip the minimum...a little more if the server starts to come around in response to me being nice and patient with them. I can only think of a handful of times that I have had such bad service that I left 10% or less...or told the manager. Above all though, I just want to enjoy my meal and find focusing on the bad service just puts me in a bad mood.


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## alisha (Nov 6, 2007)

At the Restaurant where i work we really try to make the guest's experiance perfect... their time spent in our restaurant should be the best part of their day, and we do everything in our power to make that happen... If there is a problem with the server, one of the managers on duty will take over the table and they will receive a discount or a like a 10 dollar gift card before they leave. we also have a IOU set-up, we have a To- go section of the restaurant and if something is wrong with an order, the guest can call us and we put their name and what the item was on a list, and the next time they come back, they get that item free. We messed up their order so we owe them it the correct way.


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## carlos75 (Jan 18, 2008)

Have to agree with this - this is a great attitude to have.


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## rpmcmurphy (Jan 8, 2008)

I usually have good experiences but like everyone, have a few bad ones. 

I usually just leave less of a tip if its poor and there are no circumstances like it being really crowded and 10 wait staff called out and he/she is REALLY trying (you can just tell), but I'm a big tipper to begin with. if service is good, I'll have no problem tipping 30%, if its bad, 10%. 

I frequent a local place quite often, used to at least twice a week last year. Some people I gave 30% to, one guy I gave 50$ to on a 60$ check.... some I gave 10-15%, wait staff talk......after a couple of weeks, I always got good service......(albeit probably something "extra" in my food).

I never really special order food, and never send it back either and I'm far from "pain in the ***" clientèle. 

1 time many years ago at Outback steakhouse, (i know i know)....I waited, after asking twice, ~45 minutes for the check before I got up and walked out.


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## runningduck (Jan 10, 2008)

Maybe I'm just lucky in that I tend to get excellent service. I generally attribute my luck to my attitude toward the wait staff - I did that job for almost five years before I moved to the kitchen, I can usually relate to them pretty well.

To me, the most valuable aspect of a waiter is knowledge. If they can recite from memory and without hesitation what herbs my roast duck is going to be roasted in, if they know exactly what goes into the soup, if they can answer any question I have about what I'm ordering, just about anything else is redeemable.

I can tolerate an obviously faked smile, or if they're slow to offer refills on my drinks. But if they can't tell me what I'm going to be eating, all they are is plate carriers.


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## deltadoc (Aug 15, 2004)

They had a scene in one of the Soprano's episodes where the waiter chased outside after Paulie and Christopher. The waiter ended up getting shot to death by Paulie, but it was Christopher who shorted him big time!

doc


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## firerose0801 (Mar 6, 2008)

I wish more people would have your attitude! It seems much healthier. I honestly don't think I have ever had service so poor that it ruined my night. Sometimes it's annoying, inattentive, but rarely is it a particularly big deal. I always remember a night when I was a waitress that just makes me remember that everyone deserves a little slack. I had just found out that my best friend was in the hospital, I had a truly god-awful migraine, and the manager chose to fire half the staff (both kitchen and wait) five minutes before the shift started and literally no one could fill in. The only other waiter who hadn't been fired showed up so still drunk from the night before and was basically worthless (he went into the basement and passed out until 7:30ish when I kicked him and told him that he HAD to get out there). Usually the restaurant was a little slow on that night of the week, but somehow it managed to be completely full from 5pm-10pm when we closed (it's not a huge restaurant, but there are still about 60 tables). I am usually a fantastic waitress, but I know I was probably really awful that night. Now, I tried to let people know upfront that we were very short staffed and apologize in advance; I tried to smile and be friendly, be attentive, and get to everyone as quickly as humanly possible. However, there is simply no way that I could be up-to-par so to speak. Most people were very gracious and understanding, but there was definately a couple who complained to my manager. 

Sorry for the rant, but I always keep that night in mind whenever I encounter bad service and I at least tip 10% (granted I usually tip like 30%, so I know that I am not a great example of normal).


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

Wow firerose, that's one to remember 

But I say, if a server is overextended, and my service suffers for it, I will leave less of a tip. After all, they're getting tips from more tables than they "should" be, imo.


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## jennabrown (Apr 11, 2008)

To avoid such embarrassing situations I usually go through Boorah restaurant reviews and ratings, where we can know about the behavior of the staff and restaurants atmosphere reviewed by visitors of a particular restaurant.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

I had a similar thing happen to me when a very rude waitress that could never be found stopped chased us down in the middle of the restaurant and said "Excuuuuuuuuse me, tip is 17%" and looked at me like I was crazy. I can't bring myself to leave nothing, so I left a couple of dollars on a $50 check. I told her that I tipped according to the service we were provided. I walked over to the manager and apologized for the lack of generous tip but that our dining experience was not as good as we wish it had been due to x y and z reasons.

When I was a waitress there were a few things that I did that earned me higher tips. 
1.If I was too busy to get to a table I would drop by and tell them that I would be with them as soon as I can. People will understand if you're swamped as long as you acknowledge them. 
2. Don't patronize people "sure sweetie, anything you want, I can do that for you, right away."
3. Keep your eyes on all your tables all the time. Instead of pestering my guests by continuously asking them how everything is, walk by, look, and if they need something they will stop you. You don't need to be in their face, you just need to be available.
4. Smile, and look at people when they are talking to you. 

What I hated most was that I did not get to keep the tips I earned. We had to pool the money meaning the person next to me who was making less tips and working a lot less than me walked away with the same amount as I did at the end of the night.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

Forgot to say, in Europe service is a completely different issue. For all those Americans out there visiting european countries beware that 15-18% gratuity is added to your check automatically. Some choose to leave an extra euro or so if the service was exceptional but it's not expected. Can't say it does wonders for the level of service though.

They will try to scam you if you ask "how does gratuity work here?" and tell you to leave a tip in many cases.


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

A very good tutorial on customer service:

YouTube - Seinfeld-Soup **** (best bits)


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## oleglipkin (Jul 1, 2008)

Report it to the restaurant. You desserve to be served correctly, and also it is a disservice not to inform the managers, their future clients could suffer and go away.


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## collegekid19 (Jul 28, 2008)

I generally like to go with the "kill them with kindness approach" just so they don't go with the "kill me with salmonella" approach. Sometimes after the meal is over, a stern talking to is called for


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## ctkitchencoop (Jul 22, 2008)

I tend to tip generously, but disagree with my husband about tipping on the tax. (He doesn't) What's the feeling on this?


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Of all the issues surrounding the tipping question that's the one I can least relate to. 

Let's take these givens: tax rate is 6%. You normally tip 20%. Food & drink part of the bill is $100. 

Nice and simple so we can all do the math. 

Tip on f&b only: $20.
Tip on total: 21.20

I have two questions about this.

1. Does anyone really quibble over that difference? 

2. How many people actually figure the precise percentage? I believe most people would look at a bill for $106, do some quick mental arithmatic, and drop a double sawbuck on the table. It works the other way, too. Let's say the f&b portion was 94 bucks. The total on that would be $99.40. And again, most people would merely drop a twenty.


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## dillbert (Jul 2, 2008)

...Does anyone really quibble over that difference?

Q: to which "anyone" is the quibble addressed? on the tipee or the tiper side?

......The total on that would be $99.40. And again, most people would merely drop a twenty.

which is the origin of Trinkgeld (Ger.) et.al.

where custom establishes all taxes and gratuities are included, "rounding up" generated a bit extra.
there were days when "the bill" was simply a blitz of numbers on a small scratch pad your waiter tallied up tableside.... the odd pennies often being politely rounded up by the patron - the essence of: "keep the change"

see also: tick marks on your beer coaster . . . .


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## mikelm (Dec 23, 2000)

My wife spent twelve years in the biz (head of admin for a suburban Chicago chain of family restaurants- not in production) and just heard all the time from the owners and managers that *any* complaint about a restaurant was relayed to ALL the patron's friends and acquaintances - as well as a vow never to return.

OK food and service usually didn't get mentioned.

Tough business. 

Mike

I had an absolutely lousy breakfast at a Denny's while travelling through Garberville, CA in 1967. (See how it's burned into my memory! Actually, it was in _August_ of 1967.) Didn't go into a Denny's for thirty years, and then only because my son insisted on hitting one by his office in Houston on the way to work,. Wasn't bad, so we went back to that one a couple times.

Mike


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## just jim (Oct 18, 2007)

Wow, Garberville.
In '67.
I'm sure all of the cooks were stoned.
Waitstaff too for that matter.

Denny's has gone way downhill, not that they were anywhere near the top to begin with, but they are certainly dives now.


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## docsmith (Aug 4, 2008)

I have a little different perspective as I and my wife were servers for one of those major chain bistros for a couple of years. Yes, we had to wear 'flare' so if you don't know which one you need to watch Office Space. As such we do tip 20% and work our way down for bad service, but it depends on WHY the service is bad.

You can tell 'clueless' from 'apathetic' from 'arsehole' pretty quick.

Clueless doesn't bother me much because odds are they are still learning or just stupid in general. The second most common bad service we have run into has been of the clueless variety. Its really pretty funny because while we may not have been servers for going on 15 years now, we still know why they are floundering and what their mistakes are as they make them. We had one very memorable poor server at our local favorite establishment because of the clueless server. The guy was maybe 24, about 6'3, and blond so he was easy to follow around as he worked. Our table had a view of the kitchen through the big glass partitions on a packed Saturday night. He of course completely screwed up our table and apparently every other table he had. We would watch has the managers would talk to him, the cooks, other servers and he had that look of beyond in the weeds the entire time. We actually gave him a 15% tip because we felt sorry for him as he was doing his best, even if his best was awful. We never saw him there again.

Apathetic is the norm for 'bad service'. You can tell them pretty quick on how they act when they take your drink order. These are the type where if male you will see them spend more time hitting on the female wait staff than paying attention to their tables. Usually the service is just adequate, not poor but just enough to not have major complaints, odds are we tip this kind a bit too high.

Arseholes are pretty rare and those are the only ones where we do the .01 tip or complain. I can't recall the last time, and I doubt these people last in the business long enough to really run into a lot of them. 

As a waiter I screwed up a few times, one I even feel really bad about still today (forgot a birthday), but things do happen. Over all being a waiter is not a difficult job but it does require good multitasking skills to really pull it off. Most quality people will not be life long professional waiters, so yes this is a part time job while we are in school for other things. Some of the posts in this thread seem to imply that it makes the sever somehow less important because of this, but really who wants to be a sever their entire life? I've always said everyone should work at least 6 months on tips alone, it will greatly improve peoples attitude to others.


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## irish foodie (Sep 16, 2008)

i have to say, i have never had any bad service anywhere (my oh says i scare them!). but i am always pleasant to waiting staff and thank everyone so it's not that i am aggressive or scary.

but we were at a dinner dance a number of years back and the food was stone cold when it arrived. everyone, and i mean everyone - i earwigged other tables - was moaning. 

anyway, the general manger came around the tables enquiring if everyone was enjoying their food and i sat (almost) open mouthed as everyone said 'oh, yes, lovely' and so on. when he got to me i said 'well if you like stone cold food with the veg arriving in stages, then yes, it was grand.' 

the result? i had a totally fresh (hot) plate served to me within minutes with all my food fresh and hot.

pays to speak up sometimes.


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## loldrey (Dec 15, 2008)

I do my best to make it a policy not to eat out if I know I can't tip. In fact, I usually tip 20%. There have been times, though, where I just haven't had the money to leave a very good tip. Recently, I split a pie with my friend at Pizza Hut. I handed the waitress a 20 and told her to keep the change. It was only about a 10% tip, but she never refilled our drinks, and how hard is it to bring a box from the counter to a table?
Anyways, I told her to keep the change and she just stands there staring at me for a minute. I asked her if there was a problem, and she said "You do know you're supposed to tip, right?" I REALLY don't like condescending people. I politely said, "There is a $1.74 tip there for you." She then chose to complain about how crappy the tip was, so I said "You do know that I'm not obligated to leave you a tip at all, right?"
She promptly wished me a good day and left me the heck alone.

I don't like to be rude to servers because I've been in their position, but it's kind of a requirement that you not s**k.


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

Maybe her math was bad or she didn't understand something. Maybe she argues with at least half the customers. Minimal service gets a minimal tip, in my book.

This is about how I tip:
25% if the service was really great
15% if it was satisfactory, pretty good
10% if below par but not too bad
a few pennies if the server had no respect and was a total rude jerk--after all, aren't they in the business of making customers happy?

I don't make allowances for servers who are overstretched, since they will be collecting tips from more customers. One thing I do, though, is make the tip in round dollar amounts (provided service is at least almost adequate), so that the server isn't getting what they might see as the "leftovers".


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

I would leave a handwritten note on the table folded in half Saying TIP and when the server unfolds it it would say "get into another business"'.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Poor service is so widespread, Ed, that for years I've mock-seriously threatened to have little RSVP type cards and envelopes printed. The envelope would say "A Tip For You." The card would say either, "change your attitude," or "get another job."

When I first read Nicko's original post I thought we really had different senses of humor. Not only do I not find anything funny in the situation, if I were the GM that server would be looking for a new job at shift's end. There is no excuse for that sort of behavior on the part of a server. Ever!

I used to wait tables for a living. If my legs would let me, I'd be doing it still---it's the second easiest way to make money short of actually stealing it that I know of. But you have to provide real service to make real money---something many servers fail to realize nowadays. Somebody who starts the shift thinking they're _entitled _to a tip should be thankful if they get any. Tips have to be earned. And you don't do that by being rude or surely; or by mixing up orders; or by not providing what the customer wants.


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

I agree, I am happy when I can go into a place and the server even speaks english. In one respect I have to blame the management, I have been in many places that hire that day right before the shift. Like throwing in the water and saying swim. 4 parties suffer because of this. The customer,The restaurant, The server and The kitchen. The way I see it in 5 to 10 years robots will be serving us anyway. I hope they can be programed a little better.


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## rpmcmurphy (Jan 8, 2008)

Depends on the restaurant! haha, I'd rather some of the places in my town NOT speak english! 

Ed, google around for the Monkey waiters in Japan!

Lately, I find that eating at the bar/bar menu is a much better experience. Better menus or the same menu...and I find that bartenders over wait staff is more attentive and....well overall, friendly and seem to enjoy their jobs more. (granted this is only for restaurants that lean towards the higher end of the spectrum)


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

One day out od desperation I went into a Wendys and ordered a burger and a shake. The person behind the counter looked at me and said 'we dont have shakes' I said ok a coke then. I received my order and saw what I thought a manager and asked did you run out of shake mix? "" She said no"" then she said"" She doubted if the person behind the counter knew that a frostee was a shake"""????????? Asside from that I could hardly understand the person behind the counter.. Only in America.  :crazy:

The monkees probably speak english better.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

No no, person across the counter was right. A Frosty is not a shake. Not even close.


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## bundens (Jul 5, 2008)

I believe I've posted my opinions on this before but I'll do it again just cos...
Before I started cooking I've held waiting and delivery driver positions..you know, the ones where I make money on tips. I'm not going to say I was a perfect angel and never messed up with my job but jobs have the same downsides. Long waits really kill your tips and that is NEVER you fault. It's always the kitchens or the pizza shop. For instance when i delivered pizza it would absolutely annoy the crap out of me when a customer would be like "oh, isn't it 30 mins or less?" ...(man that 80's marketing worked like a charm right?)...and then I'd have to apologize and be nice usually to get a paltry dollar or nothing at all..to beat the crap out of my vehicle and drive food to THEIR house...so amusing! What the customer didn't know was that I was helping inside, taking orders, making their order and dropping off 3 or 4 other deliveries on my run and not just theirs..but go figure.
Fact is, when it's busy in a restaurant or delivery shop you're always working your butt off. You have no choice..just like when the line is filled with tickets and you have to fill 40 orders...you work, and do it fast...
the servers do that too. I find it unacceptable to not leave a tip. When you go out to eat it is of convenience now

It used to be ppl went out to eat because it was a special occasion or they had the money..now ppl just do it because they are too lazy to cook or don't know how. People eat out so much that the fresh foods sections at grocery stores are getting smaller and more appalling by the second. 
Restaurants don't even use fresh foods anymore because it has become that much of a revolving door. As long as it's cheap ppl will come back because that is the American way of life now...EAT OUT EAT OUT EAT OUT!!

...like if you're going to applebee's I don't ever expect the poorly trained newbie (and they always are new, what with that amazing turnover the restaurant industry has...probably stress from nasty customers..who knows, anyways)..
i don't expect some sub par or a corporate chain that offers 5.99 3 course lunches to be exactly stellar in the service department. Then again i'm not the type to snap my fingers at somebody for a half inch refill on my bev oo rage'.
I don't run my servers rampant over ridiculous things, consequently I've only ever had deplorable service 2 times that I can remember...and I've eaten out....A LOT..in a lot of different states and countries and a lot of different types of establishments.

My other point to make with this is customers are flat out discriminatory when it comes to tipping. If this wasn't true hooters girls wouldn't pull in more in tips than the average wing and burger place. I watch my own family do it (unfortunately). Even some of my friends do it..and it's embarrassing. I actually have a friend who I used to work with who won't tip blacks or hindu's because they waited for so long and the whole time they always received very poor or no tips at all. They think they're making a statement..
and I also have a friend who everybody refuses to go out with now because he always complains about his food, gets something for free and then refuses to tip for some "reason or another"...
It's really all very ignorant and childish if you ask me. But unfortunately I really can say with confidence that while I was serving and delivering that people were prejudice against me because of who and what I am.

If service is that terrible I leave 10%...I usually tip 30%
I'll never forget one time I was at ruby tuesdays or some place like that..I got such bad service and this couple had 3 screaming toddlers and the server was trying her hardest and as i was dilligently waiting they left and left nothing...
how unfair, no wonder she had such a piss poor attitude...to be run ragged like that and get zip. 
I left her 20 bucks on a 18 dollar check..

It's just a matter of class...it's a matter of "cooth" so to speak. Only teenagers and ignorant ppl stiff the servers...and even teenagers tip better now than their parents. That server is a person too..that is getting paid under 3 bucks an hour..and maybe the only reason they have that job is because they couldn't get the retail job they wanted because they weren't hiring. That's how i fell into food, it just so happened that I liked it...but I know plenty of kids that do it because it's an easy "in"...you'll get hired in 2 seconds no matter what your reference at a restaurant. It's a guaranteed job to wait tables at the diner or drop of chinese food...but getting a job at the music store or the gap isn't...they're a little more selective and there's a bigger line.

just my 2 cents again


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## nick.shu (Jul 18, 2000)

The whole concept of gratuities here in Aus are based on egalitarian values, i.e, you only tip on the basis of outstanding service, and there is no dependancy on receiving tips on top of wage/salary.

This is not necessarily good practice. But by the same token provides an incentive. The provision of good service tells you if you are doing your job properly via gratuities or feedback.

But only if you are professional enough to understand that. If you are dependant on tips, or in a situation where the expectation is that you would automatically receive a gratuity, then the reason to give outstanding service diminishes to a point where its an automatic response and a expectation, regardless of the outcome.

From where i stand, ongoing employment is feedback enough. I do not expect gratuities, nor accept them.


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## koukouvagia (Apr 3, 2008)

It can be very embarrasing to be out to dinner with someone who is too cheap to tip and will weigh each penny they part with. On the other hand I'm no fan of 30% tippers either, unless someone goes way above and beyond my expectations and inspires me to do so. I'm not a server - I am an independent contractor and I know that if I don't do my job well that eventually jobs won't come in and I won't make as much money as I need to. Waiters need to earn their money as well. I'm not at all comfortable with the idea that someone is entitled to a certain mount of tip from me just because their place of employment doesn't pay them and regardless of the service they provide. 

Let's face it, dollars matter more to us now than they did 10 yrs ago. Nobody's parting with their buck without consideration. $20 tip on an $18 bill? Lol good for you if you have it, but not me. In fact when I was a server and got unusually large tips like that it actually made me feel a bit uncomfortable. Big tippers like that eventually expected more from me either in special attention, lenghtly conversations, or even asking me on a date. Sorry but I'm a woman, and I say no thanks to creepy guys thinking they can buy any kind of attention from me.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

>$20 tip on an $18 bill? Lol good for you if you have it, but not me.<

There's more than affordibility here. There's the matter of reinforcing the idea that service level doesn't count.

Using that instance, and assuming everything was as Bunden's says, here's how it works:

Table one: worked very hard, zero tip.
Table two: gave bad service, got tip larger than the check.

Conclusion: No matter what I do, my service level will not affect the tips I bring home. So why bother giving good service. 

This is just one of the ways we've been training servers to not care.

I also agree that 30% as an automatic tip figure is outlandish. 

What's more, the reasons people go out to eat is irrelevent to how they are treated. In my household, eating out is still a special-occasion sort of thing. But that shouldn't matter. If we ate out every night, I would still expect the same level of service. And adjust my tips to how it met my expectations. 

What far too many wait staffers forget is that there's a reason why "server" and "servant" have the same root. Their job is, if only for the moment, to be my servant, and cater to my needs. 

I hear all the excuses why that's not possible. That he/she has too many tables, or that there are problems at home, or that the chef just screamed at him/her, or that the people at the next table were so nasty, or that they were partying the night before. Etc. etc. Sure, servers are people, and those things can effect them, even if in theory they shouldn't. But, if they effect you to the point where you are taking it out on me, don't expect me to pay for the priviledge. 

Unlike some who have posted here, I will not cry mea culpa for the actions of others. And I have absolutely no guilt feelings that you are working for less than minimum wage. Learn to do your job correctly and the tips will be there.

That was my attitude when I was a server. And I never had cause to complain about my tips. Indeed, I often made more than the chef, and return customers often asked specifically for me to be their waiter (we said waiter and waitress in those days).

To be sure, there were rude and uncaring servers back then, too. But their number was small, and they usually didn't last long. I remember one in particular. Let's call her Jane. She was always surly with everybody; carrying some sort of chip on her shoulder. And, no matter what sort of night she'd had, good (weren't too many of those, for her), bad, or middling, her tips went completely into her pocket. Not a dime for the busboys and dishwashers. 

And then she'd wonder why it took so long for her tables to get bussed. And why the chairs at her tables never seemed to get wiped down properly. 

Unfortunately, taken as a whole, the wait staff of America is now dominated by Janes. And why not. If we accept the most shoddy levels of service, and reward it with a good tip, why expect them to be anything else?


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## bundens (Jul 5, 2008)

well ky
going by that logic it ISN'T the servers responsibility to tip out. I usually would to it as, I'm a nice person however if you want to operate by the service logic..the busboys and the kitchen already get's paid...why would the "servant" have to give them anymore money from the tips that they accrued?

30% --because I'm nice and I can do it because, like I said, I love to eat out and rather than buy myself useless material knick knacks to throw around the house i spend it on "going out" and having fun.
I certainly don't expect everybody to ever tip that much but my main point is they tip something..something viable like 10%.

The reason that girl gave me bad service (the one who got 20 bucks) was because it was a friday night..she had a huge rotation of tables...I would say 10 or 11. They were all busy and MOST were being a real pain in the rear.
All I care about is I get my soda refilled at the proper time (and I never really even have to ask, most of the time they do it)...and that my food is hot when it gets to the table. I really actually hate the whole "are you ok??...are you ok??" like 10 times while I'm trying to eat my food...it annoys the **** out of me.

I just understand how unreasonable people really are
and for some reason it was always the ones who tipped really really horribly or didn't tip at all that made you walk through fire and jump through hoops
and no it's not my attitude because despite how it may seem I will even smile at the customer, even if they spit in my face or called me names...i grit and bear it
why?
because I'm nice..and perhaps that is the biggest reason why i know the whole notion of "be nice to the customer and fulfill all their needs" mantra is all nothing but BS.

Doesn't matter if you carry a chip or not you still get treated like scum of the world...and I suppose that it can be attributed back to Stanley Milgrim and his theories of power and how people deep down love to inflict pain upon others.


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## oregonyeti (Jun 16, 2007)

In the '80's I worked as a short-order cook in an average "family restaurant", nothing fancy. It wasn't a chain. The food was better than Applebee's, but not much. Just explaining the place I worked at for a few years.

I was paid by the hour and I never saw any share of the tips. It didn't even occur to me that I'd get part of the tips. I was getting paid $3.50 an hour--15 cents above minimum wage at the time. 

The servers (waiters and waitresses) kept all the tips they got. Some of them made more in tips than I did in wages. That's just how it worked.

I did respect the servers for earning their tips. The best servers got the best tips, and that made sense to me. I also didn't want to do their job 

In my relations with the servers, tips were never a part of the equation since I didn't have a share in them. But if one of them was a jerk to me, I would move their order into a lower priority . . .

There was one waitress who made the biggest tips. Well . . . she was a sweetheart to me too, not just to the customers, and I was happy to see her make big tips! I gave her orders priority when I was having a hard time keeping up and needed to prioritize. Whoa, that makes me sound almost professional :^) . But anyway, what goes around comes around at least in some ways.

I'm in different work now, but I remember those days well.


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## abefroman (Mar 12, 2005)

There are those people that leave a penny, or if they have a leatherman with them, a half penny. And some people leave their tip in the form of advice, suggesting the server find a new job.

However when paying by credit card I've been temped to leave A NEGATIVE TIP a couple times where the server was really bad. I don't see anything on there that says tip must be greater than or equal to zero. 

For example if the bill is $20, write -$5 in the line for the tip, and put $15 for the total amount.

In general I tip 15% of the service was normal, 20-30% if it was good and the server did an above average job, and 10% or less if it was below normal (IE. had to send the food back with no tangible compensation, had to go looking for my waiter/waitress, etc.) 

And if I feel the restaurant is overpriced my percentage is also lowered, my theory is, "Just because the restaurant is overpriced, that's no reason to overtip"


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