# Are Coffee shops profitable?



## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

A coffee shop/cafe just opened in my neighborhood about two months ago. Small, about twenty seats, mostly coffee and pastry with a lethargic attempt to add sandwiches.  

     The entrepreneurial itch has started up again and I'm thinking perhaps I should buy the place. The building houses other businesses so this would be strictly rent with no possibility of ownership of the property and there is no room to expand. What you see is all there will ever be. 

 I live nearby and frequent this place several times a week.  I know I can improve the food offerings. 

I know typical restaurant profit margins.  Is a coffee house any different?


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

Hey CW. 20 seats aint a lot. However, I personally, I think the money would be in the coffee. 

Somewhere between a standard cafe, and say, a Starbucks or Koffee Klatch wannabe. 

If you could get a reputation as a great coffee-hut with some great food too, rather than a cafe with 

great coffee, it may work better.

You can also work in a better profit margin on the coffee that way too, and from what I've seen, specialty 

coffee carries a pretty healthy profit margin inherent.

Also emphasis on the take-out (take-away) aspect--again, I see that working, around here anyway, I 

dont remember where bouts you are. 

If you're a regular, you might start by just talking to peeps who go there a lot and find out what changes

THEY would consider big improvements--determine if the bulk of the existig patronage is more 

focused on food...or on coffee. Or even on something not yet thought of.


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

Thanks, Meez. That's exactly what I was trying to convey. I'm in upstate NY.

This place sells lots of coffee, not much food.

I'd like to offer creative, quickly made food items but the focus is on coffee.

So you come in for coffee but can also get a quality bite to eat.

While the seating is limited, I think this neighborhood would appreciate a place to stop in and get a quick coffee and bite to eat on the go. Those with time can find a pleasant place to sit but leaving with their purchase is the intended outcome. 

Starbucks seems to do well and I don't think it's just economies of scale at work. I'm curious as to the profit margin to be expected on a cup of coffee so I can extrapolate the potential income on the place.


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## chefbuba (Feb 17, 2010)

A 16oz iced latte for the drive home cost me $5, there's a lot of profit in there. Two shots of coffee, a lot of ice and maybe 4oz of milk in a plastic cup.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

To go window?

mimi


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

I wouldn't want people sitting around drinking coffee. Right now its a coffee and pastry joint, that's a nickel and dime operation. I would make it a breakfast place short order fast out of the kitchen diner. In fact I would call it a diner. I would make my own breakfast country sausage, country gravy, homemade CFS, hot off the grill home fried potatoes sitting on the back of the grill ( Like they do in upper state NY).......Keep the menu fast, good and simple. Turn the tables over as fast as possible......


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

flipflopgirl said:


> To go window?
> 
> mimi


Theres a Starbucks local here with a drive thru winder. (which arent that common)

Ever since the day they opened, cars have been backed up thru the entire parking lot

(blocking it) from about 6am to 10 am. Theyre like In n Out, theyre always busy.

I dont know the numbers, but by my crude observations, I'd say theyre making a

crapload o' money.

Chefwriter, a lot of quick coffee places like that around here, including quick mart type

sell a lot of packaged food items along with their coffee. The question is, are your

potential clientelle going to actually appreciate fresh made foods with their cofee

to go, or would it yield a poor return on your time/labor etc? I know I would, but

I am definitely not everyone. But then again, I'm in LA, not NY. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif


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## chefbuba (Feb 17, 2010)

I was peeved when I was in LA last year, no drive through coffee. I'd spot a bucks, but there would be no meters open for blocks around or there was a pay lot and would cost me $5 to park for my daily coffee.

I'm spoiled up here in the PNW, coffee drive through's are EVERYWHERE. I don't remember when that last time I had to get out of the car for coffee.


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

chefbuba said:


> I was peeved when I was in LA last year, no drive through coffee. I'd spot a bucks, but there would be no meters open for blocks around or there was a pay lot and would cost me $5 to park for my daily coffee.
> 
> I'm spoiled up here in the PNW, coffee drive through's are EVERYWHERE. I don't remember when that last time I had to get out of the car for coffee.


Yeah theyre scarce even in the suburbs, the closer you get to the city the worse it gets.

Pasadena is just about as bad, no free parking there either.

The one I mentioned is doing great, maybe it will catch on....likely not.

Meanwhile, every fast food joint everywhere around (and there are LOTS) has a drive through.

Go figger.


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## cerise (Jul 5, 2013)

Is your heart set on coffee? If so, do it differently than what is already out there.

Food for thought...years ago, there was a hole-in-the-wall Italian butcher/grocery store also offering homemade pasta, potato, marinated mushrooms etc., and imported canned goods.

The owner started making sandwiches/subs for his son and friends. Word of mouth caught on, and there was standing room only (no tables) at lunch time. Studio folks and locals lined up for a sandwich to go.

The bread/baguettes were freshly-baked from a local bakery, A whole can of imported tuna was used with fresh tomatoes, olive oil and vinegar, topped w fresh parm. Similarly for the Italian subs - all with fresh ingredients. Later he added a small grille and added hot sandwiches - homemade meatballs, sausage and peppers and on and on. He added another helper/employee to fulfill the large and growing lunch crowd.

The biz grew, and he purchased a larger store down the street. It grew even bigger, so then he bought an actual restaurant w tables and chairs. It was never quite the same for me. It lost its' charm and the prices went way up.

Not a big coffee fan, and think it's been done -unless you have a unique idea. Just some food for thought. Wish you much success.


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

Thank you everyone for all your replies.  A bit more information.

     This shop is adjacent to a small local movie theatre. So far as I have been able to determine, the majority of business takes place according to the movie schedules I hope to be witnessing the activity this afternoon. (I haven't had an appropriate afternoon off thus far.) 

     There is no possibility of a drive thru window as the storefront is in the middle of the building housing several businesses.  My thinking at the moment is to arrange the coffee and food prep systems to serve movie goers as quickly and efficiently as possible so they can grab a coffee and/or a bite to eat and get to the theatre asap or be able to stop by after the movie for a more leisurely bite. As it is in a larger building, there is no hope of installing a grill or other heavy duty food preparation equipment.  A few electric devices is about it. 

     I have not yet figured out what the cafe's draw would be without the theatre but naturally I'd like to attract as much of that demographic as possible as well. The street is a long mix of residential and commercial, both renters and homeowners with attendant flow of traffic. Parking for the cafe itself is limited to street parking but the theatre has quite a bit of parking and of course there is foot traffic from the neighborhood. As I said, I'd like to find ways to draw in more of the foot and neighborhood traffic, especially during non theater times. 

    In the bigger picture,I"m curious about the profitability of coffee shops in general. As has been noted, Starbucks and others seem to do well.  if this location isn't everything it's cracked up to be, my thinking was to open a coffee shop elsewhere. 

     As for opening a diner, been there, done that. Nickel and dime operation indeed. Coffee, pastry and simple eats seems much easier and I'm hoping more profitable.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

I come from a city that is coffee crazy-- Vancouver.  Not only is there a stah-buhks on every corner, but there are the "Waves" chains, the "second cup" chains, "Tim Hortons" of course, but local chains such as JJ beans (15 locations) "take 5" (over 25 locations) as well as the indie shops.  Were not even talking about the stah-buhks kiosks in the malls, supermarkets, and bookstores, or the gas stations.

Brewed coffee is a loss leader.  Yes, it's cheap to brew a pot and dispense 10- 16 oz cups, at what--$2.00 a cup?  Disposable cup costs you, the lid, the sleeve, the stir sticks, the sugar and cream that the customer helps themselves to, and napkins.  Watch people, they love to throw out half of their coffee in the garbage, top up with sugar and cream, make a mess, grab a buck's worth of napkins to mop up, and then leave.

The espresso drinks make money. A shot of espresso, milk-which is dispensed by you and the customer pays for, syrups, etc. which is dispensed by you and the customer pays for.  But you can charge better, over $3.00 a cup, up charge with whipped cream, syrups, ice cream, and all that stuff

Without variation, every coffee shop here has b'fast pastries, cold beverages/pop, usually salads or sandwiches and impulse stuff like chocolate bars, snacks, etc.  Oh, and free Wi-Fi.  You need the other stuff to bring up the cheque average, and you curse and hate the free Wi-Fi.  Because without variation, every coffee shop here has tables with solitary figures hunched over their device, a deuce or 4-top with one person and  their stuff, nursing their $3.50 latte for hours.  The only thing that gets them out is 3 people peering over their shoulder asking them if they're ready to leave.....

You need the volume to make money, but if you have the volume, you can make money.


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## cerise (Jul 5, 2013)

How about coffee and croissant?

There's a small place I like that sells croissant sandwiches of every kind - from chicken, tuna, egg, ham and cheese salad to breakfast and dessert croissant (chocolate.filled, etc.). You can get a burger, as well. A fresh fruit cup and hot chocolate could be some other additions. I used to mix half a cup of hot chocolate with half a cup of coffee. Delish.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Gross profit on coffee is good, $1.50 per cup is not out of line, but that is gross not net. Also it takes a lot of cups sold to translate any discernible amount of cash in owners pocket. Starbucks and the likes probably make more of their money on bulk sales, mugs, machines, accessories, shirts, music collections, etc than on cups of coffee sold, basically selling the brand rather than the product.


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## cerise (Jul 5, 2013)

N/a


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## mattm (Jan 25, 2016)

If you do not have the magic (shitty) recipes of a starbucks, you would rather focus on high end customers, and that requires good barista machines, good coffee, and skills. It would be expensive but I have to say that people are often growing more and more demanding when it comes to coffee.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

It continues to amaze me how so many people, whether it's in casual conversation or bulletin board forums, trash




  








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.

They're a giant company. *Over* 23,000 world-wide locations, *over* $16,000,000,000 _(sixteen freakin' billion $$$)_ in revenue. THEY SELL COFFEE. My goodness, if they made a cat-piss latte ... people would be in line for the stuff. If their coffee was so bad ... nobody would be there in the first place.

For reference ... Micky D's has over 36,000 world-wide locations with revenue of over $25-billion. Micky D's started in 1940, Micky D's corporation was 1955. Starbucks started in 1971, they're pretty big.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

That's a great post, Iceman. Folks seem to not have the right perspective at times. Coffee, chain restaurants, fast food, or mass market knives... Money talks and all else walks. Success is measured in money. Thanks for a shot of reality!


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

Thank You.

Just this afternoon I sat in a Starbucks waiting for a friend as I watched The *Chicago BLACKHAWKS* beat the Washington Capitals. In less than one(1)-hour I counted more than $100 worth of $7 drinks _(I stopped at 15)_. There were never less than two(2) people at the counter. This was a Sunday afternoon. I think that is pretty good business. There are three(3) SBs within two(2)-miles of my house. This is not the biggest SB either.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

For those of you envious of the seemingly golden touch of the Starbucks logo....

http://www.houstoniamag.com/articles/2016/2/5/largest-starbucks-in-texas-houston-february-2016

I guess someone read and believed the fable about Houston (and Texas in general) not being touched by the wicked finger of the current "slow economy" (why cant they just rip the band aid off and say recession?) and rubberstamped this project.

The location of this hotel is a big draw for the downtown convention trade but if someone would have thought this thru a huge fiscal disaster could have been avoided.

Hey financial wizards you can get all the beverages and snacks you want in convention hospitality rooms .... for free!

But then again... who woulda thunk that oil would drop to a historic (> $25 per barrel) low and deplete the coffers of all the execs who pay the salaries and ok the expense reports of the very ones who would have made the above concept a success?

The downtown gentrification is proceeding (at a snails pace but still...) and will eventually catch up but prolly not nearly fast enuf to save this massive financial blunder.

mimi


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## ex-cook1973 (Mar 1, 2016)

I ran a coffee shop for a few years, had some fun but just couldn't make it work in the long run.

What I'll say is it can work but you have to be flexible and willing to change to what people want as opposed to your ideal. I had a good location, best coffee I could afford but the lack of a drive thru window and the revenue that brings just took too much away. All because me and the owners went into it wanting a "real" coffee shop and not a drive thru clone.

So, while I am still not a fan of most coffee chains and their "candy" coffee it is an area where you have to give them the credit they deserve. If I had stayed more flexable in my thinking and stood up to the owners more on the things I knew would have cut costs and increased cash flow who knows, maybe I'd still be there.


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## mattm (Jan 25, 2016)

IceMan said:


> It continues to amaze me how so many people, whether it's in casual conversation or bulletin board forums, trash
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol..... you know, McDonalds does billions every year and does you consider their cousine any fancy and of high quality? There goes your analysis on Starbucks. Sorry, I know this sounds offensive, but your point of view is quite pedestrian. Poke me back when the taste of the masses indicates any quality whatsoever. As well, poke me back when a top chef start cooking daily for McDonalds or a top barista starts brewing espressos and lattes for Starbucks. And when you for once tastes a real latte prepared with something else that is not bulks of average burned cheap beans in the market with tons of sugar and fake flavors.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

You're using a completely different metric, Matt. Dollars generated is not the same as high quality food/cooks. apples and oranges. There's room for both but they aren't comparable.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Dear Iceman:

What you really have to consider, when comparing Stah-buhks AND Mc D's,  is three things:

-Location

-Location

and

-Location

Mc d's and SB all have great locations.  Mc d's won't open a place unless they have a minimum of 50+ parking stalls.  S.B. won't open a location if there's no traffic (pedestrian or vehicle).  They pay big bucks for the locations, money the indies can't afford to pay

If you have the right location, you CAN sell cat-piss lattes for $10.00 a pop.  Try selling that in a light industrial area or Chinatown, and you're hooped  But in the down town core, yes you can!

Both MC D's and S.B spend a bomb advertising, doubt if you will find any indie coffee chain spending any kind of money on advertising.  Because they spend the money on advertising, they get the choice slots in the shopping malls because the malls want a piece of that advertising and the people it brings.  Virtually every mall in N.America is a collection of chains and franchises, each one drooling over the other's advertising budget; the indies get the unit by the washrooms and warning to hit forecasted sales or they'll get turned into a shoe store.

In short, money gets money. Doesn't neccesarily reflect quality or value.....


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

You both, MattM and foodpump ... missed my point.


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## mattm (Jan 25, 2016)

BrianShaw said:


> You're using a completely different metric, Matt. Dollars generated is not the same as high quality food/cooks. apples and oranges. There's room for both but they aren't comparable.


Oi? I think you are ironically mistaking apples for oranges.... He was addressing the fact Starbucks can't be really bad amidst all the criticism, otherwise "nobody would be there in the first place" and make it the huge successful company it is, so your comment would apply to HIS commentary not mine, as he is the one comparing "a billions of dollars company" with a high quality outcome production, and I was addressing exactly that flawed analysis of his. Yes, Starbucks IS that bad for people who REALLY love and know the taste of high quality coffee.


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## cerise (Jul 5, 2013)

Just serve McRib sandwiches and lattes, and call it McBucks.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

If Starbucks sucked ... nobody would go there to spend their money. Just because YOU may not like it, doesn't at all make it a bad product. Are YOU a multi-billionaire?!? NO, I do think so. Obviously there are enough people with opinions different from yours, willing to go into a Starbucks location somewhere in the world to spend their money. If you can make a cup of coffee so much better ... please do. I'll be happier than happy to come in, spend some money, and help support your soon-to-be multi-billion-dollar company. Until then ... grow up.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

IceMan said:


> If Starbucks sucked ... nobody would go there to spend their money.


Due to travel, fatigue, and *stupidity*, I went to a Denny's for the first time in over a decade. They were crowded, the bacon wasn't even real bacon, will be over a decade (hopefullly longer) before I darken their door again. (...just saying)


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## cerise (Jul 5, 2013)

Interesting topic. When I think of coffee shops, I envision something like Seinfeld's coffee shop in New York years ago - not chains selling coffee drinks and fast food. Coffee refills, as I recall, were free.

I think that coffee shops evolved into Diners - home cooking type menus. To back up, cafeteria-style eateries were popular. I think the reason why, was/is people want to hang out, linger, and make a social? event or connect with others or pass the time.

In cafeterias, you could hang out for hours - buy one dish at a time, and have your ticket punched. Cabbies hung out at all hours after their shift in New York. The Automat was popular too.

Times have changed, but the message that comes to me re Starbucks and late night cafes, is people want to hang out without investing a bundle of money.

How that translates into making a profit, is anyone's guess.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

IceMan said:


> If Starbucks sucked ... nobody would go there to spend their money.


Uh-huh, someone once said "a fool and his money are soon parted"...

But it does! Stah-buhks coffee sucks royally.

Iceman, you like your wine, I like my coffee, which is why I o/o a coffee and chocolate shop. Stah-buhks coffee has the living sh*t roasted out of it, the barristas rely on fully automated equipment, but the biggest thing here in Vancouver is, that Stah-buhks up until 5 years ago, would buy all their pastries locally. When corporate decided to buy all pastries for N.America from one central, automated bakery in the U.S. the quality went down, and the production bakeries here had to lay off staff. _* Clearly, quality is not the issue, price is*_, never mind the fact that all that stuff has to be trucked in frozen halfway across the continent. Yes, I know, beans come from halfway across the world, but beans don't grow locally.

People are stupid, they do what advertising and media tells them to do. Remember that old Supertramp song that goes: "..and you drink cocoa-cola because they say it tastes good, and you watch television, because they say that you should".... If you advertise enough, people will line up to buy a $10.00 cat-piss latte. Which is precisely why the huge multi nationals spend enormous amounts of money on advertising.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Cerise said:


> Interesting topic. When I think of coffee shops, I envision something like Seinfeld's coffee shop in New York years ago - not chains selling coffee drinks and fast food. Coffee refills, as I recall, were free.
> 
> I think that coffee shops evolved into Diners - home cooking type menus. To back up, cafeteria-style eateries were popular. I think the reason why, was/is people want to hang out, linger, and make a social? event or connect with others or pass the time.
> 
> ...


If I may speculate... volume and cost-control. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/peace.gif


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

... but I wonder the same thing every time I go to someplace like Panera for lunch, pay for food, and then can't find a table because there are too many self-centered jackasses sitting there surfing porno on the web while sipping their fifth or sixth cup of coffee. Maybe everyone else is like me... I mutter curse words under my breath and then eat in my car. Panera got my money one way or the other, and I didn't starve.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

Whatever your opinion of Starbucks is ... IT'S YOURS ... that is all well and good.  You can even tell me all about what that opinion may be.  It just seems to me ... a little bit ... that if they really did suck (outside of your opinion) they would not at all be doing as well as they do. Yes, I do like wine. I'm somewhat of a wine geek. I believe to know a good deal about wine. I'll be happy to tell you all about wine. As I type this I realize how I fit in the exact opinionated shoe that I am speaking out against. "2$Chuck" is absolute piss. Not at all drinkable. I guess it is my own mistake to express myself in the same style that I argue against.

I'm so sorry to read a bashing story about "Denny's". For a long time they were my favorite greasy-spoon kinda place. Back in my high-school delinquint days I would spend numerous late night/early morning hours there enjoying clam chowder and/or cheese soup with a patty-melt. I drank a lot of their coffee too.


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Now hold on there just a minute, Iceman... you may be crossing a line. Please leave 2$Chuck out of the conversation. It, too, fills a niche... and a rather sizable niche too. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif

P.S. Here in LA there is still a lot of the Denny's versus Norm's debate... as if it really matters. Both fill you up with food at a good price! And both appear to be thriving and profitable businesses.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

2$ Chuck?  Sigh...... We have Gub-mint controlled liquor here.  Cheapest piss-in-a-bottle legally available is at least $5.00 Cdn.....


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

Your hockey team sucks too.


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## mattm (Jan 25, 2016)

IceMan said:


> If Starbucks sucked ... nobody would go there to spend their money.


I said to the OP if he doesn't have the kind of secret formula Starbucks does have he would not succeed, because, YES, they profit and you can't compete with that.They are not a coffee shop, they are as you said a multi billion dollar company. I don't think the OP has in mind opening a new SB franchise, he wondered about a coffee shop.

And what is your logic to say because people spend money on Starbucks it doesn't suck? Because millions of people do that? Does quantity now accounts for quality?

And it happens that half of America and people who endorse your quality analysis is OVERWEIGHT, struggling with health issues related to bad diet, eating tons of sugar and fat on anything (perhaps even you?)


> Just because YOU may not like it, doesn't at all make it a bad product. Are YOU a multi-billionaire?!? NO, I do think so.


I don't like to play semantics though I think it is the case here to clear things up.To be a bad product for coffee appreciators is different than a puke inducing product for the masses. SB clearly IS NOT puke inducing, but that doesn't make it a good product for people who REALLY like coffee.

And I have no idea what my income and savings would have to do with the matter... should I have a multi billion dollar coffee shop to make my opinion relevant? Do you?
I'm pretty sure you can find high end coffee shops in Chicago where the owners are not multi billionaires nor are starving business men, but are quite successful and real in the coffee business.



> Obviously there are enough people with opinions different from yours, willing to go into a Starbucks location somewhere in the world to spend their money.


Indeed, as well as there are enough people in America to get Donald Trump to the elections =/ You know? the relation of quality and quantity... 


> If you can make a cup of coffee so much better ... please do. I'll be happier than happy to come in, spend some money, and help support your soon-to-be multi-billion-dollar company. Until then ... grow up.


Anyone willing to afford a espresso set up at home, purchase high quality coffee beans and willing to learn how to brew coffee CAN do that for you. The question is... do you have the palate to judge that? I don't think so...... Most importantly, are you the kind of person willing to pay $6 or more for a single Guatemalan espresso shot? Clearly not. Does the high end coffee industry struggle to survive charging those fares? Absolutely not.

And sorry if I sound not grown up enough to you but I never meant Starbucks would not be profitable and successful, I was just addressing your lack of background to judge coffee quality as it really annoys the hell out of me people with bogus opinions - and bad taste - pointing things they have no clue about. Optionally.. YOU could grow a decent taste on coffee and get rid of that Nespresso machine I'm pretty sure you have there in your place lol


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Apparently there is a new internet capability I was not aware of: the ability to measure and assess the palate of others based on not much more than postings to a discussion forum. What an amazing leap in technology!

Perhaps decaf would help a bit, or is that too plebian?


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## cerise (Jul 5, 2013)

My favorite Coffee Shop, growing up, was Chock Full O' Nuts on 34th St in Manhattan. I looked forward to their cream cheese on datenut bread sandwiches, a cup o' coffee, and a brownie - at affordable prices. They seemed to have some staying power ;-) Take that SB LOL


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

IceMan said:


> Your hockey team sucks too.


Well....that's a matter of opinion, of which everyone is entitled to. However, if you wish, You can proudly state your opinion in front of a full house at GM Place stadium when we play the 'hawks. It's not like Canucks fans take it to the streets and riot, or anything like that..... /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif


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## cerise (Jul 5, 2013)

BrianShaw said:


> Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!


I knew there were closet McRib fans out there. :lol:

I'm waiting for the McShwarma.

[VIDEO]



[/VIDEO]


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

That sounds interesting. I was always intrigued by the McLobster that was offered in the Canadian Maritimes. Right now I'm licking my chops over the $1.79 Lenten special on Fillet-O-Fish and eagerly awaiting the annual release of the Shamrock Shake. No closets for me! I eat junk food out of necessity and gourmet fare for fun!!


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Edit for tacky language!

mimi


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

Thought I'd drop back in just to mention that I've decided against purchasing the coffee shop. Not enough parking, foot traffic or opportunities for growth. But this has become a very interesting thread, so don't let that stop the conversation.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

Starbucks has been around for +/- 45 years. If so many people are really growing so much more and more demanding when it comes to their coffee ... why have they lasted so long, and keep expanding their markets and products? Maybe because they don't suck. Maybe because more people like their coffee then not? OR ... maybe because they don't suck?

NO, I would not spend $6 on a shot of Guatemalan espresso. I do not own a Nespresso machine. They, and all other pod-type machines, are very very bad ecologically.





  








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I use this one when I want to sit outside reading the paper. _(Mine is blue.)_




  








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This one is just cool to have and use.




  








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Iceman


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Every day use. Just 1 push button. 




  








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This is my favorite. Makes a good cup a joe.

semantics
The study of the meaning of words.

Often misused when quibbling about something someone said. In that context, the statement "That's only semantics" would be more aptly phrased as "You're just 'splitting hairs on word meanings."
_Often used within the phrase "That's only semantics": 
-- as a blanket repudiation of precise communication.
-- by persons advocating 'subjective feelings' over 'objective description' as a mainstay of communication._
The very concept of semantics is frequently disparaged by wishy-washy passive-aggressives who refuse to be accountable for their careless use of language or their deplorable lack of education.
Skater-boy was too lazy to choose his words carefully, unaware that without semantics, even his street drivel would be incomprehensible.


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## cerise (Jul 5, 2013)

I miss my programmable coffee maker with a timer/clock. I always knew it was 7 AM and time to get up, when the aroma of brewing coffee came wafting through the bedroom.





  








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cerise


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Lucky you... I haven't slept in until 7 since I was a child. My coffeemaker wakes me at 4:45 on weekdays and 6 on weekends.


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## cerise (Jul 5, 2013)

chefwriter said:


> Thought I'd drop back in just to mention that I've decided against purchasing the coffee shop. Not enough parking, foot traffic or opportunities for growth. But this has become a very interesting thread, so don't let that stop the conversation.


Sorry it didn't pan out. Lots of ideas, and opinions for thought though. Maybe Central Perk is for sale ;-)


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

I am a big fan of percolators....in fact I have the snazzy camp style as well as a June Cleaver model that you plug in (still works great even after 30 years use).

Both take less amt of grounds as I control the perking times.

Both make a great tasting beverage.

So good in fact that I (who usually asks for extra sweetener at SB) can take it black.

As usual just IMO.

mimi


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

As am i. How much coffee I want to make determines the pot I use.
I have 4 camp type, and 3 electric perks--40, 55, and 60 cup. 
I dont currently own a drip coffee maker. And no trendy Keurig for this guy--we drink way 
too much coffee, the cost of them k cups would pay all the monthly utility bills. 

They all basically drip hot water over coffee grounds. The main difference
being, drip coffee makers don't boil the water and they only drop it over the grounds
once, while perkers recirculate over and over until you get it exactly how you want it.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

I have used pretty much used every brewing method and equipment there is. Have gone back to way old school method. I heat water to 205. Pour over grounds. Let steep 4 minutes. Stiring once with wooden chopsticks. Pour through coffee sock.










Best cup of coffee ever. Highly adjustable to personal preference. Essential oils are not lost. Packs in a suitcase!!!


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

cheflayne said:


> I have used pretty much used every brewing method and equipment there is.
> Have gone back to way old school method. I heat water to 205. Pour over grounds. Let steep 4 minutes. Stiring once with wooden chopsticks. Pour through coffee sock.
> 
> Best cup of coffee ever. Highly adjustable to personal preference. Essential oils are not lost. Packs in a suitcase!!!


That's basically the same thing as using a French press--steeping in hot water then squeezing, 
pressing or filtering out the grounds.

Speaking of old school (reeely old school) methods.... does anyone know of the trick northeren hunters still use 
to this day, of heating the coffee in a large pot, then dropping a certain kind of "stick" in, that causes all the 
grounds to immediately sink to the bottom? 
Does anyone have any idea what kind of tree that stick is from, or where it can be found?


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## cerise (Jul 5, 2013)

No idea, Meezey.

At the end of the day, you just wanna share a cup o' joe with friends. One lump, or two? Haha.

I like the vintage coffee mill/grinder, with a little drawer he's using. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/cool.gif (There's a similar grinder on amazon for about $14.)

Do any of you grind your own beans?


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

I've been grinding beans for a long time. First a blade grinder and then an electric burr grinder. The hand grinders are intriguing but I've never tried one. 

I like the blade grinders for speed and affordability. I like the burr grinder for better control/consistency of coffee ground size. 

Best cup of coffee I get is burr ground beans in a French press.


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## cerise (Jul 5, 2013)

BrianShaw said:


> I've been grinding beans for a long time. First a blade grinder and then an electric burr grinder. The hand grinders are intriguing but I've never tried one.
> 
> I like the blade grinders for speed and affordability. I like the burr grinder for better control/consistency of coffee ground size.
> 
> Best cup of coffee I get is burr ground beans in a French press.


Thanks, Brian.

Here it is. Too cool for school ;-)





  








41CB8j3Y96L._SX425_.jpg




__
cerise


__
Mar 7, 2016


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## numan (Sep 25, 2018)

chefwriter said:


> A coffee shop/cafe just opened in my neighborhood about two months ago. Small, about twenty seats, mostly coffee and pastry with a lethargic attempt to add sandwiches.
> 
> The entrepreneurial itch has started up again and I'm thinking perhaps I should buy the place. The building houses other businesses so this would be strictly rent with no possibility of ownership of the property and there is no room to expand. What you see is all there will ever be.
> 
> ...


I Want to open a Moroccan Khwa shop?
any ideas?


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## numan (Sep 25, 2018)

cerise said:


> Thanks, Brian.
> 
> Here it is. Too cool for school ;-)
> 
> ...


AWWW YOU REMIND ME OF MY COLLEGE DAYS..... IVE NEVER SEEN THIS SINCE 3 YEARS


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## numan (Sep 25, 2018)

mattm said:


> If you do not have the magic recipes of a starbucks, you would rather focus on high end customers, and that requires good barista machines, good coffee, and skills. It would be expensive but I have to say that people are often growing more and more demanding when it comes to coffee.


ALSO THE LOCATION DOES MATTER.


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## Cdp (Aug 31, 2017)

this wasa great read,
my only suggestion would be to sit and evaluate and drink coffee,
i would make my own simple tarts or cookies etc with the coffee i would speak to a cup person and have your cups setup with your information
12oz double wall style cup if possible a bio style cup to show you care about your area.

in Aus if your coffee is good people pay the big coin more so if it is a petite styl,e cafe small numbers (ie 20 seat) and if it looks full..must be full for a reason.

good luck


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