# help choosing knife



## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

Hello, today i got a tojiro shirogami gyuto 210mm and a victorinox chefs knife think its about 22cm

love the cutting and sharpness of my tojiro but like the feel of the thinner victorinox maybe cause its mono steel?

i want a knife thats tops 260 dollars sent to norway im pretty sure i want mono steel cause i like its feel.

want a thin laser cutting machine thats not to hard to sharpen but fairly easy like my to other knives.
But still not to chippy.

sharpen on king 220, 1000 and naniwa superstone 3000 and king 6000

Want a thin cutter of a workhorse i can rely on for many years


any knives you can recomend? handle dont have anything to say.


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## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

Ive seen the kohetsu hap40 knives and the gonbei aus 10 and such

What will be the best knife of all?


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## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

And btw want a double bevel 50/50 240mm cutting machine. Im a fairly good sharpener and thinner i think cause some chef buddys always want me to sharpen their knifes.


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## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

Any tips?


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## spoiledbroth (Sep 25, 2014)

According to spec MAC and Richmond Artifex (Yo handle) are ground to a 50/50 V edge... !


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## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

Ok but any good mono steel knifes to recomend with double bevel?


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## spoiledbroth (Sep 25, 2014)

I believe both the ones I mentioned above. Richmond are American made but Japanese profile. I have some experience with MAC, they are nice. You can find reviews on here or other websites for the Richmond Artifex line, they can be purchased from Chef Knives To Go. MAC are definitely 50/50 V at 15 degrees... They are not the prettiest knives in the world, but they hold up well and take relatively nice edge compared to the Victorinox, and they are more widely retailed so you should be able to lay your hands on one before you buy if you do some searching. As I said I have no experience with the Artifex but there are some reviews around online. They are both stainless steel.


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## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

Okey both of em are mono steel? And will take a sharper edge than my other knives? And be thinner and more of a laser?


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## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

Any more good mono steel gyutos to recomend? Am a lefty you see


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## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

Is that hard to sharpen or?


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## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

What about the konosuke hh or white number 2 laser?


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## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

Or the hd or??? What takes best sharpest edge and cuts best?


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## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

Im now between hd2 the hh or the white 2 wich is best? All are mono steel and good for a lefty?

What cuts best?


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

I have a Konosuke in White #2 and really love it but I've never tried an HD so I have nothing to compare it to.  The White does take a great edge though.


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## kevpenbanc (Jan 18, 2014)

I have a hd2 suji and it's an awesome slicer. I imagine the white 2 would also be awesome. 
I'm pretty sure I would not be able to determine which of them is the 'best' cutter. There may be some on this forum who could, but I suspect it would be a null question for most of us - certainly for me


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## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

Okay decided on a hd2 240mm gyuto just hope i can afford it when my salary is inn. Gonna use this knife in a voluntering kitchen im in charge off you see thats why i need a good knife that will last for years


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

The geometry of Konosuke knives is awesome.  They're thin in all the right places and have a great shape.  I was lucky to grab one before the price went up 50% or so about a year and a half ago.  IIRC I paid under $200 for mine...the same one is closer to $300 now I think.  I'd like to try an HD eventually.  But the Konosuke I'd really like to nab is the Carter-inspired Funayuki.


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## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

Okay is there any better knifes for the samme price or?

Seams pretty much everyone thinks the konosuke hd2 is good


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## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

What you mean benuser?


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## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

Ahaa i understand. CAn i change that myself or?


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## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

Okay any recomendations that still are thin and great cutters?


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## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

Know where i can buy one? Haha cool name virgin carbon hehe


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## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

Ok thnx its as good as the hd2?


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## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

Ok


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## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

Tried a kono now loved it!!! 

Cant decide between white 2 or hd2

White 2 is mono steel?

Thinner and takes a better edge??


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Read through this thread: http://www.cheftalk.com/t/68557/konosuke-hd-or-white-steel-2-gyuto-which-one

It comes down to personal preference. How much can you deal with patina, how often do you like to sharpen? You don't need full sharpening each time either, only on the finer grit most of the time.


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

Lots of gyutos can be converted from RH to LH yourself. Some are shaped in a markedly different way but many/most are not. Traditional single bevel knives are strongly left or right handed and can't be changed but a gyuto generally isn't this way.

JapaneseChefKnives is a great vendor that sells lots of left handed knives. They ship almost everywhere at a reasonable price. Awesome company! If you want something special or individualized Koki will hook you up. A link: http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/products.html


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

True but they're not all made like that.  Some really are pretty symmetrical with the actual bevel being asymmetric.


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## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

Hmm had no problems with the kono i tried with the factory bevel. Maybe it was a lucky knife?


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## krx927 (Oct 13, 2014)

OP:

In my opinion you need to get a good Japanese knife with decent steel and forget other knifes like German, French - their steel is just not good enough and they get dull immediately -> you will need constant resharpening. Of course here you will need to sacrifice mono steel, but honestly I do not believe that it makes any difference.

After that you need to decide if you want high maintenance carbon steel that rusts all the time or get stainless steel that does not rust (in any case you need 63 HRC or above). I see that you already have tojiro shirogami so you are aware on the maintenance of carbon steel and the fact that you must wipe it constantly and clean it immediately after using it.

That is the reason why I did not want to go for carbon steel when first buying Japanese knives. I decided for it only later.

I have a few decently priced suggestions for you:

First one is Akifusa Guyto whcih is made out of PM stainless steel which is pretty hard (around 64 HRC). The knife performs great, it is easy to sharpen. You can get is laser sharp. It holds the sharpness decently long. It costs 200 USD of epicedge.com and you will get it shipped to Norway for your budget - they also write a smaller price on package so you pay less customs 

Second cheaper option is carbon steel Aogami(Blue) 2 or Super - Moritaka Hamono. As you know it is higher maintenance but it is cheaper as Akifusa. You can get is directly on the web site of Moritaka: http://www.moritakahamono.com/

you can get Gyuto 210mm with Aogami 2 for 9500 JPY = 70 EUR

and

Gyuto 210mm in aogami super steel for 13000 JPY = 96 EUR

shipping to Belgium was 2000 JPY = 15 EUR

and I agreed with them that they wrote cheaper price so I did not pay much custom.

I must say that cutting with this knife is extremely nice, it is extremely sharp, better as Akifusa, but it's a lot of maintainance. You need to constantly wiping it with a cloth to keep it dry. I am a home cook and for me (and my amount of cooking) it is still manageable, but I do not imagine how such knifes are used in professional kitchens?! *Can any profi chef explain is Aogami/Shirogami knives are really used in profi kitchens? And how (constant wiping?)?*

and the last suggestion which is much more expensive but very good - Miyabi 7000MCD

this is a beautiful looking knife in damascus style with extremely hard steel - ZDP 189 which is HRC 66. It stays sharp for extremely long time and is also stainless steel. It is a bit harder to sharpen but not so hard. I see it on ebay.de going for 290EUR...

I must say that the nicest feel in cutting any food gives me Moritaka with carbon steel. There really is a difference!


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## mrbushido (Apr 24, 2014)

Aready bought the konosuke hd2 270mm gyuto


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Constant wiping? If you build sufficient patina, just wipe when you're done cutting. Exceptions for acidic food of course. I have a damp and a dry kitchen towel available when I'm cutting. You should be wiping your knife and board in between tasks anyway. If not, you're just working dirty.

Super high HRC is not for everyone. The negative effects can be brittleness and also sharpening difficulty. My average carbon steel is around 62. Keeps an edge long enough but can also be touched up with a few swipes on a stone.


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## krx927 (Oct 13, 2014)

MillionsKnives said:


> Constant wiping? If you build sufficient patina, just wipe when you're done cutting. Exceptions for acidic food of course. I have a damp and a dry kitchen towel available when I'm cutting. You should be wiping your knife and board in between tasks anyway. If not, you're just working dirty.
> 
> Super high HRC is not for everyone. The negative effects can be brittleness and also sharpening difficulty. My average carbon steel is around 62. Keeps an edge long enough but can also be touched up with a few swipes on a stone.


OK that's what I meant - wiping between tasks (except if you are cutting many kilos of food). I must agree that I still need to build more patina on my Aogami. It has a bit but not a lot 

About brittleness: I never had an issue with it, except when I sharpened my ZDP189 knife to 10 degrees. I have now all my knives on 12.5 degrees and it really is not a problem. But of course I take care not to do stupid things with them that would chip them - like cutting bones.

About sharpening: honestly I do not see significant difference in sharpening my ZDP189, Aogami super, ZDP and PM knives compared with my Wushoff and Henckels... I am sharpening with EdgePro, perhaps this makes it easier...


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

I'm not saying high hardness steels are not for you, or mrbushido who already has a good idea of exactly what he wants. Thats more for someone getting their first gyuto reading this. It takes some extra amount of care in use and maintenance already, extra hardness only compounds that.

If you can't feel any difference in sharpening, that's a problem even on edgepro. To use edgepro properly, you should still check angles with a marker, check for burr etc. Otherwise you're blindly grinding away steel perhaps unnecessarily. Because the stone is smaller, and changing angles is more cumbersome, it's actually slower than freehand to do correctly. I think it's great for small knives.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Not to mention earlier on this very thread, we discussed that no japanese knives are really symmetric. You really should be checking your angles using the marker test even with edge pro.


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## krx927 (Oct 13, 2014)

MillionsKnives said:


> I'm not saying high hardness steels are not for you, or mrbushido who already has a good idea of exactly what he wants. Thats more for someone getting their first gyuto reading this. It takes some extra amount of care in use and maintenance already, extra hardness only compounds that.
> 
> If you can't feel any difference in sharpening, that's a problem even on edgepro. To use edgepro properly, you should still check angles with a marker, check for burr etc. Otherwise you're blindly grinding away steel perhaps unnecessarily. Because the stone is smaller, and changing angles is more cumbersome, it's actually slower than freehand to do correctly. I think it's great for small knives.





MillionsKnives said:


> Not to mention earlier on this very thread, we discussed that no japanese knives are really symmetric. You really should be checking your angles using the marker test even with edge pro.


About checking the angles, I really do not care for that. When I get my knife new I always put it to 15 degrees - I do not need to check for anything, I juts want ot have it 15 to see how the steel performs. Later when I see I am not getting any chipping I put all of them to 12.5. Until now all my knifes are OK with this. I tried once 10 degrees with ZDP but it started to chip so I put it back on 12.5 which is ok. And by all means I am checking for burr as I do not want to grind away too much material! I want my knives to last me a long, long time.

I can imagine that freehanding is making things faster and you can produce nicer (even concave) edges, but honestly EP is the easiest and fastest option I found except using some kind of machine.

I like my knives and specially I like to have them really sharp all the time, but I do not want to spend too much time and effort on it. That's the reason why I ditched all my knives from Solingen and went to Japanese. Now using EP on them I get max result with min effort


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## krx927 (Oct 13, 2014)

Benuser said:


> I would add that the sharp shoulders the EP provides best get removed...by hand. Otherwise you get facets.


What do you mean by sharp shoulders?


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