# New knife kit help



## geo87 (Jul 2, 2013)

Hi all. I have been pouring over these forums for a while now and the wealth of knowledge is amazing. Particular mention to B.D.L whom I feel has influenced my opinions the most. 

I have been cooking professionally for 8 years now and with quite an average kit (mainly due to lack of funds ) but I am now in a position to upgrade. 
I have never used carbon knives before but would like to give them a go, However only the knives I don't use as often. So the cooks knife / petty must be stainless or clad. I don't like Damascus as I'm after performance not looks (although looks matter a little  
Here is the list of knives im thinking of buying. 

Ikanshi tadatuna inox 210mm wa gyuto (primary knife)
Hiromoto as 6" petty (Instead of boning / for small scale carving ) 
Missono Sweden steel 3" Parer 
Mac superior bread knife 10.5" 
K sab au carbon 10" cooks knife ( heavy duty backup)
Sab nongent 10" slicer (Large Carving) 
Also I am keeping from my current kit a 
Tojiro sha ra ku mono 8" flexi slicer for medium scale fish filleting. 

Any thoughts on these choices? 

Is the Hiromoto as petty good as a replacement for a boning knife, my concern is can the tip poke under sinew as easily as a Thiner boning knife? Also any thoughts on 5" or 6" ?

I have already ordered the 210mm gyuto as my mind is made up on this one, out of the lasers b.d.l recommends this is the only knife in stock that I can get delivered to Australia. 

In terms of the size choice I feel I have more control and speed with the 8" gyuto and the 10" Sab can cope with anything larger.

My main question is about sharpening My current stones ( purchased when I had very little knowledge) are naniwa super stones
400 , 1000, 5000 

Is the jump from 1 to 5 thousand a bad thing ? Would 3000 be better? I would like a razor polished edge on all knives except knives intended for carving / meat work where a more toothy edge is needed. 

I do not currently have a strop but I feel purchasing one is nessesary for the japanese knives, what kind of strop / compound should I get? I have 0 knowledge of strops, actually i have never even seen one.

Will i need a different sharpening kit for the carbon sabs and are the sabs more suited to Steeling than stroping? 
With my limited knowledge I'm assuming that the sabs would sharpen quicker on the stones due to softer steel and would need regular steeling due to the edge rolling over more frequently? 

As a note I am very much a begginer to sharpening on waterstones. 

That's about it, any input would be appreciated I am open to new ideas and suggestions.


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## scomel (Apr 20, 2012)

Deleted


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## geo87 (Jul 2, 2013)

Scomel said:


> ^ Ummmmm....really! Okay, well do we need to rub a lamp and a genie comes out for the rest of our wishes?


Okay slightly confused by this, are you implying that by asking for help and asking so many questions I'm hoping for someone else to do all the work for me?

Or do you mean that a magical creature is going to make all my knives apear .

As you have personally received help on these forums on choosing knives I would hope it's the latter. Which would be amazing, where is this lamp you speak of as chefs don't get paid much and knives are expensive !


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## scomel (Apr 20, 2012)

Sorry geo87 was replying to the post that was after yours that now seems to have been removed.  The guy who said PM him and he will guarantee a knife that stays sharp forever etc etc.  It was his first post so I assume he was trolling.  I will leave the actual help for those on the forum who have more experience than me, and you are correct I have certainly been helped by those in the know on here


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## geo87 (Jul 2, 2013)

Oh I see, that makes much more sence now lol I never saw that post. Out of context it was quite confusing


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Tadatsuna makes incredibly good knives.  If you don't mind me asking, who are you getting yours from?   Americans used to be able to buy them directly from Japan, but the outlet closed after the earthquake/tsunami.  The only US source I know is aframestokyo.com.  A great e-tailer to be sure, but they don't carry the entire line.

If it isn't already too late, I'd think about something bigger than 210mm.  Because of their light weight, "lasers" handle much shorter than their actual length.  

Lots of people love Hiromoto AS.  Not me though.  I bought a drawer full and didn't think they got much sharper than the other knives in their price range, was unimpressed by F&F, and found the handles uncomfortable.  None of that really applies to the petty.  I have two petties:  A 6" Nogent slicer for anything -- including boning -- which might damage my 6" Konosuke; and a Konosuke HH (stainless) for anything particularly acid.  I guess first principle is to make sure you have something that will stand up to its uses. While it isn't my choice, the AS should suit.       

Paring knife -- buy something cheap or buy something with a particularly good handle.  Cheap because if you use them right, they get abused and don't last long.  Victorinox.  If you absolutely, positively must have a Misono Sweden, make it the petty.

MAC Superior bread -- as good as it gets. 

10" Sab as a heavy-duty back up -- marginal.  It's certainly up to a lot of things the Tadatsuna shouldn't do.  But whether or not it's up to everything you're going to throw at it is another.  I can't say.  If you lived in the States I'd tell you to get an Old Hickory for a "knife of last resort," because they're super strong and super cheap.  I have a 12" K-Sab which is plenty heavy, an old carbon cleaver, and a Forschner Cimeter for those things.  You might want to pick up something cheap, rather than something perfect. 

Otherwise though a 10" Sab is an outstanding knife and well worth having; and an excellent companion to the Tadatsuna.     

10" Nogent slicer -- great knife.  Wonderful.  Make sure you get a straight one.  A lot of Nogents have bends where the tang meets the blade.  Alternatively, Misono Sweden slicers are also great; and 240 and longer get the dragon.  However, they're considerably more expensive than the Nogents, at least here in the US of A. 

I stopped using flexible knives for filleting and can't comment. 

Naniwa SS 400, 1K, 5K is a great sharpening kit.  Don't forget that you need a flattener of some sort right off the bat.  There are a couple of stand-out US choices, I don't know what to say about OZ.  But any coarse ceramic flattener should do.   

BDL


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## geo87 (Jul 2, 2013)

I'm getting the tadasuna through aframestokyo, I've already ordered it in the 210mm as I've noticed high end knives especially wa gyutos go out of stock quickly so jumped on the chance. It went out of stock after i ordered it lol. I have been using a 240mm shun cooks knife and I have found that its too big for me, for the tasks I use a cooks knife/ gyuto for. It is interesting that you say lazers handle smaller than their length, I'm happy to give the 210 a go and I can always sell and upgrade to 240 at a later date, I feel the search for the right gyuto for me is something that may take trial and error. 

Sorry I did not mention a few cheaper knives in my kit, a cleaver (brand unknown) for smashing bone, two victrinox parers one for box opening , cling wrap cutting abusive jobs the other for peeling/ small tasks . do you feel a good quality Parer for jobs such as this is unnecessary? Even for something like, fluting mushrooms or scoring tomatoes for concase? If so I could scrap the Parer and spend more money on the 6" slicer 

In terms of the 6" slicer I was hoping to cover the following tasks, boning , trimming sinew / silver skin , small scale carving during service e.g slicing ballontines, racks of lamb , lamb rump etc etc also segmenting Citris etc. it sounds I may be trying to fit too many tasks into one ? 
For trimming meat I like a less razor knife so I can run the knife along it without cutting through sinew, then I need a sharper slightly toothy knife for the service carving tasks? 
Perhaps two pettys is more ideal.?
Either that or i use a different knife for service carving tasks ( or carving on the line in American terms) mabie the 8" slicer? 

In terms of the "heavy duty " tasks I could encounter. Cutting whole pumpkin, cutting whole watermelon, cutting large blocks of butter, large blocks of chocolate, splitting bugs ( their a small crustation with a hard shell) 
Anything with bones e.g fish frames I use the cleaver. Is the 10" k Sab cooks up to this?
Or is 12" heavier?
I would also use the extra length to portion larger items e.g full baines of potato gratin etc

What knife do you use for filleting tasks? 
Most fish I have to fillet are medium round bodied hard boned fish with a few soft boned medium sized as well.

Also any advice on strops / steels for these knives 

Thanks heaps for your lengthy reply


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## trooper (Jan 21, 2011)

I use a carbon sujihiki(sp?) from FKH (I think it is FKH?) for meat. This is my second one (240mm I believe); I loaned the first one to a friend, who fixed the tip and uses it for meat as well. He liked it so much I gifted it to him. My experience with carbon slicers has been excellent. Chef/other carbon styles, not as great.

I use my SpyderCo Sharpmaker for just about everything now - so this edge could be better, but 15-degree, single-bevel seems to work for me.

You had a lot of other questions, but this is just my experience related to carbon knives. Personally - I have had the best success with carbon slicers for butchery and meat prep.





  








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## harlock0083 (Feb 11, 2013)

trooper said:


> I use a carbon sujihiki(sp?) from FKH (I think it is FKH?) for meat. This is my second one (240mm I believe); I loaned the first one to a friend, who fixed the tip and uses it for meat as well. He liked it so much I gifted it to him. My experience with carbon slicers has been excellent. Chef/other carbon styles, not as great.
> 
> I use my SpyderCo Sharpmaker for just about everything now - so this edge could be better, but 15-degree, single-bevel seems to work for me.
> 
> ...


Thats the FKM isn't it? I'm pretty sure its AUS8 steel.


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## trooper (Jan 21, 2011)

Not sure. It slices and portions dead things pretty well.


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## trooper (Jan 21, 2011)

Benuser said:


> For sure it is the stainless FKM. A new FKH looks like this:
> 
> http://postimg.org/image/9pdxvsh0f/


Hmm.. I couldn't view the link but I was sure I replaced that siji with another carbon. My old one was patina brown. The new one has some light oxidation spots developing - so I didn't question what I bought. Good eye... I guess I don't actually have a carbon suji after all.


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