# Question for women owners/chefs



## lentil (Sep 8, 2003)

I'm having some trouble with a salesman of mine and feel it has something to do with the fact that he's a little bit of a chauvinist. I'm not a huge account for him, but I am a consistent one. I know I do more than some of his local accounts as he often will have small orders dropped off here when they didn't meet the minimum. Even so, I don't feel like he respects me as someone who knows anything. 

Last winter he asked me if he could take one of my pie crusts (okay, I admit, I buy them by the case because I stink at crusts..) so he could see if they'd work for pork pies that he was making for his clients. I gladly gave him one for free. Christmas came and went and I never got my pork pie. It's not that I really wanted one, but to tell me he was making them for his clients, take my crust, and not give me one was a little wierd.

Often, and I do mean often, I'll get the wrong product and he'll insist that I ordered it. Just the other day, I called him to ask if he could pick me up a can of arti hearts when he was at the warehouse. He said yes and that he'd bring my lasagna sheets at the same time. I told him the sheets had already been delivered with the rest of my order. When it came to me that he probably meant pot pie crusts, I called him back and he went through this whole "you said you didn't need them" , and I said "no, I didnt' need the other". He kept insisting that he was right, and after one or two rounds, I just kept saying, "okay, but what I really need is ...." but that wasn't good enough for him. He has to prove me wrong even when I'm not arguing. 

To top that whole conversation off, when I called him, I heard him pick up his cell and say to someone else, "See, I KNEW I should have turned off my phone!" Then he gets the phone to his ear and says real deadpan, "hello, sue." I called him on it and said too bad he hadn't shut it off. He was embarassed. BTW, I needed the stuff for Friday and he said he'd get it to me. Guess what, my husband is driving to the next town to pick it up today- Sunday.

Anyway, after that longwinded ramble, what I want to know is if any other women chef/owners feel they're treated differently than they've seen men in the same positions treated? I used to work with a real ball buster woman who treated the salesmen like dirt. It was embarassing for me to watch, and I vowed I'd never be like that. Maybe I should give it a try- those salesmen treated her like a queen and it wasn't because she was supermodel-looking. They were scared witless of her.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

I get that kind of treatment and I'm a guy and have a cheesy moustache to boot!

For the "misplaced" orders, the best thing to do is give your order slowly and clearly, then ask the sucker to repeat your order back to you. This usually takes care of the "he said/she said" biz, but if it doesn't and you still want to continue doing business with the guy or his co. then fax in your order.

With the respect issue, you have to give some back. Tease the guy a little bit, telling him you would have placed a larger order, but you were so hungry for a pork pie you clean forgot to call in the order..... Never let him forget a screw up, and ask him at every chance if he's recieved payment. They usually shut up and listen when they're forced to say "yes"... Also study his product/price list. I keep my lists in the "reading room" a.k.a the porcelain altar, and I study them. The slightest whiff of "that's a special order" or "we don't usually carry that", and you can tell him off.

I'm a small business too. We're a pain in the a**, we don't place $3 or $4 thousand dollar orders every week. But we are consistant, we don't demand -and get 90 day credit terms, and we pay on time. However you have to remember that the fun starts in late Jan, when purveyors start leaning heavily on the small accounts to cover their naked hiennies because they're still waiting for the big accounts to cough up....


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## shipscook (Jan 14, 2007)

Actually, most of my suppliers are spot on and really take care of my orders. I almost always use e-mail to send them.
I recently had a male supplier that just didn't seem to have it together. And the only really problem I had was with a female who kept padding my orders with bigger amounts or unordered things. We were in the shipyard for a refit and orders were running around $5000 setting up for run and feeding ships crew and workers. Each order was about 10% over. She fixed it when I reminded her there was a $25,000 (four month trip)order coming up and that would not be acceptable. Have been back in that port several times and she is doing pretty good.
This almost sounds like he just doesn't care enough???
Good luck and don't take any crap!!!!!!!
Nan


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## lentil (Sep 8, 2003)

Cheesy mustache? I hope you don't mean cheese "in" your mustache, because that would be gross...

About the he said/she said business, I don't have the energy to do that with my salesmen. I have a teenaged boy and a daughter not long out of her teens- I'm all tuckered out with that line of communication! When the salesman starts with it, I usually just cut him short and tell him what I want. He keeps up the "but you said....." until I say something like, "no matter what I said or didnt' say, I'm saying this now." I really don't call him up and "blame" him.

You know, foodpump, you're absolutely right about the payment stuff. I pay for last week's order when I place the order for this week. Rarely, if ever, am I any later than that. But when his company instituted a "pay up or else' policy, he started lecturing me on not being able to place an order yada yada. I asked if I had ever been late and he said I hadn't. Um, well???


The teasing thing doesn't work with him because he doesn't really have a sense of humor. He's quick to get defensive. Once I teased him about showing up during lunch time and said that I thought he had forgotten all about me since it was 3 hours later than his normal time. He got all flustered and made about a dozen excuses. Sorta took the fun out of a joking with him. 

I"m actually looking forward to January when he starts pushing me for larger orders. It may be a good time to shop more at Sam's Club...


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## lentil (Sep 8, 2003)

Shipscook,

I'd love to hear more about your job. From what little you posted, it sounds interesting. 

Oh yes, you're right about my salesman; I just dont' think he's that into me.:lol:

I also have a fish guy. When I was ordering shrimp and fish weekly, he couldn't do enough for me. I always paid COD and had a good relationship with him. The past year, I don't do much fish at all, but when I place an order with him, he gives me a hard time suggesting that I'm getting my fish elsewhere. This week, I called him twice and he never even returned my calls. So, I got my fish elsewhere. 

One day he brought me out to the truck to show me some really nice haddock. It was really nice, but he dug his hand into the tub of fish - his bare hand- pulled some out and laid it up his arm (picture home shopping network when the woman lays the string of pearls from one hand to another going up her forearm ) and then stroked it to show me how fresh it was. The guy smells like an ashtray marinating in fish and he's fondling fish with his bare hands. It was a lovely sight.


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## kyheirloomer (Feb 1, 2007)

Lentil, if I can butt in where maybe I don't belong....

Doesn't sound to me like this guy is so much a chauvinist as a bad salesman. Period. Everything you've said about him indicates that. 

Unfortunately, there's a lot of that going around; in all businesses. 

Question: Is there another supplier you can use for these products? When you switch suppliers, and the sales manager calls to ask why, you can tell him straight out you pay for service as well as product, and weren't getting it from his company; and will not return to them so long as so & so works there. 

Question 2: Is there any reason you must order by phone? Fax and email provides an automatic hard copy. First time you get an over-delivery, call the salesman's boss and point out that under the law the 10% (or whatever) is an unsolicited gift, and is his company so generous with all its customers. That's end that practice.


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## shoemaker (Sep 20, 2007)

LOL....OMG.....LOL....OMG.... ummmmmm, that'd be a really funny post, other than the actuality of it. Strong, unpleasant imagry conjured, there..... This is a crazy biz, no ???


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## risque cakes (Apr 20, 2007)

Girl, let me tell you something here! First of all you are not really being professional about the whole thing. What is this " can you drop this and that off on your way to ...?" Nope...He's lost respect for his client.

Call him with a list of your orders, then FAX that sucker into the office. Then call him to make sure he got the darn thing and LET THEM DELIVER IT ON THE TRUCK!!

Since I'm a small order client I tend to pick up my things myself. I do exactly as I've told you, call , fax , then call again ( expecially with new places I tend to baby sit a little)

When I had a larger, busier place, I had them deliver on the truck, I ALWAYS tipped the guy a few bucks, I knew when their children's birthday was and always had a little gift for the kids and on Family Holidays, Like Christmas had a little something extra in the envelope, some kid gifts and a couple of cookies for them.

I ALWAYS had excellent service, all the latest gossip on my competitors and the guys always brought my products in and put them away for me since I was just a helpless little woman..lol

I got TONS of free samples!! up to cases of stuff!!! (NOT FALLEN OFF TRUCKS..lol)

I think you need to start over with this guy and do the changes slowly and gradually, if you can't get your products elsewhere.

and, get over not getting your pork pie!!! I think that's getting you more p'oed than his unprofessionalism!! lol

Can you make arrangements to have your husband deal with him? Maybe with him dealing with this salesperson, things will be different!!???

Do not let this guy's treatment of you get to you, he sounds like an idiot that doesn't have any Customer Service skills...Don't let HIM control YOUR behaviour.

Smile, be sweet, get even..lol


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Thanks Risque.

You know us guys, we couldn't tell a women she's not professional......


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## auspicious (Nov 25, 2007)

Develop a relationship with your salesman's boss. You are the boss, so you should have an escalation path for issues. Lunch with the sales manager every couple of months would probably do wonders for service.

If that doesn't work find another supplier.


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## risque cakes (Apr 20, 2007)

Well, as my Mom always said about me...I had NO "HAIR'S" on my tongue ( her way of saying I don't sugar coat things!) Sometimes it's hard to hear, even when someone tells me something distasteful I still cringe, but then I have to take it with a grain of salt and check MY behaviour.

No one has control over MY BEHAVIOUR but me, and I cannot let other's shoddy treatment get ME to roll in the mud with them..true I witch and moan and post and blog, but I never let them see me sweat.

I am notorious for giving people chances to resolve issues that arrise, there is always a "BAD" day, and as a woman...I have more than my share...but when things get to the point that I can't get to LADY CLAIROL fast enough...then I start going up the ladder.

Usually, I NEVER have had to do that, since I ALWAYS treat service people like gold. My sales people come...and the first thing I ask them is if they've eatten, can I get them a cup of coffee..a cookie..something...then we get down to the nitty gritty.

You'd be surprise, just how much that little kindness gets me, but at the same time, I do NOT treat them as "FRIENDS" or even aquaintances, they are there to do a job and that job is to service MY BUSINESS!

And ...they'd better do a darn good job too! 

PS: My intern was always telling me how "NICE" I spoke to and with people...she can't believe how "patient" I am..and "cheeful"...ha...she doesn't know what goes through my head...and I laugh like an idiot because I run those terrible humiliating "death" ( you know the ones? "KILL THE IDIOT SCENES") scenes in my own head for private enjoyment..heheheee


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## lentil (Sep 8, 2003)

Risque- Maybe you misunderstood. I don't ask him to drop things off on his way to anywhere. My item wasn't on the truck because he didn't get it into my order. He was to deliver it to me to fix his own screw-up not mine, so I asked him to bring me another item as long as he had to go to the warehouse anyway. As a rule, my order goes in to him on Wed and is delivered to me on Thursday. On a *rare* occasion, I've asked him to make a special trip for me, but he does that for many of his customers. He lives in the nearby, and goes to a sales meeting on Friday mornings anyway, so many of his customers ask their salesmen to pick up something then.

I also have a great relationship with the driver. I offer him lunch, give him samples of something I'm working on, but never tip. I've never seen that done around here and have never even heard of it. He's invited me and my husband to his camp although we've never gone. As far as knowing thier kids' birthdays and all, I don't think I'd go that far. After all, as you said, we're not friends.

My husband doesn't work with me so I wouldn't ask him to deal with the salesman. I should be able to get good service without asking my husband to back me up nor should I have to be any sweeter than any of his other clients. I only have so much sweet to go around! 

You're right. The pork pie thing did tick me off. After all, he made his prototype with my product! Okay, okay! I'll get over it! But in all honesty, he ticked me off long before I didn't get my danged pie! LOL
__________________


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## foodnfoto (Jan 1, 2001)

Gee Lentil, was it one crust or a whole case of them? If it was only one, maybe his pork pie sucked and he didn't make them for his clients-I'd just forget about it.

KY- I agree with you whole heartedly. Talk to his boss, and be looking for a rep from another company. 

When I used to do food service, I'd always play one rep against the others with price and quality comparisons. I had about 6 reps falling all over themselves to get my orders. The lion's share went to the ones who would provide the best service and today I remember them with utmost fondness. Especially Debbie, who would borrow a case of something that was missing from my order from another of her clients and drive it over to me on Saturday morning. Golly, she was a gem!

I did have a few that would give me the "little woman" routine-referring to my monthlies if they got the order got screwed up, "there-there"ing me if one of my clients was breathing down my neck for the order that got left off the truck, sautering in at Noon on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving looking for lunch, or commenting on my perfect diction on their answering machine (what's with that?!?!) Needless to say, those guys got swept aside PDQ!


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## lentil (Sep 8, 2003)

Foodnfoto, I guess that's the point of it all, isn't it? It's not that they screwed up the order, but that it's my "monthlies". Everyone makes mistakes, but it's trying to pass them off onto someone else that's so aggravating. This salesman has never spoken a word to me about any of his male customers- only the women. He's mentioned one *itch who goes over each piece of produce looking for rot then sends it back, another "gal" who "doesn't cut him any slack" and who he calls ma'am just to humor her.

You all are probably right. I should either complain about him to his boss or find another supplier. I hesitate to be the one who gets him in trouble and I don't want to use sysco or US foods. One other supplier in my area requires a $500 minimum and I used the other one before, but they were really inconsistent with their prices. They got me by having the lowest prices, but within a few months, they were as high or higher then my previous one.

My only optionis to put my order in writing and stop dealing with him at all.


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## lentil (Sep 8, 2003)

KY- I missed your post earlier.

No I don't order by phone. I call him when there's been a mistake or on the off chance I need something. He stops in on order day and puts my order directly into his laptop. Later in the day, he uploads all his orders to the office. If I realize I need something or if I wasn't ready for him when he came by for the order, I call his cell to add on. That 's where the confusion may have occured when I mentioned calling him.


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## risque cakes (Apr 20, 2007)

you will have to "retrain" yourself to make sure that you're ready for him when he arrives. It will save you headaches in the longrun, it will also let him do HIS job more efficiently.

Can you imagine if ALL the clients in his route are "NOT READY" when he shows up?


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## lentil (Sep 8, 2003)

I'm not so sure you got my main point, but I won't belabor it further.

But in reference to my other point, am I the only one who ever has to add on to an order after the salesman has gone? What do people do when a luncheon or something comes up after the order is placed? I'm in a rural area so hopping in the car and driving to Sam's isn't always an option, not to mention that it cuts into my profit margin to drive 15 miles one way at $3/gal of gas. If something ordered isn't on the truck but is needed for me to do MY job efficiently, are you saying I shouldn't expect him to bring it to me?


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## auspicious (Nov 25, 2007)

Comparing the logistics of an urban business to a rural one may well be interesting, but isn't what you originally asked about.

It occurs to me that without being judgmental of anyone (including the salesman, who seems to have issues ... oops - so much for not being judgmental <grin>), there is a personality conflict between you and him that only you know about.

Do you really care what he thinks, or just how he behaves? You know him, we don't. How might he respond to being told that you are uncomfortable with his comments about women (give specific examples) and that you expect to be treated more professionally. Follow up the discussion with a letter or e-mail ("as we discussed today, I don't like ... and expect ...").

Then go have that lunch with his boss.


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## pgr555 (Aug 3, 2007)

Lentil,
I must say I have a different reaction than many here. First of all, my husband has been a sales rep for 30 years. He goes out of his way to get things to people and to be sure his customers are happy. I have been treated the way you describw by men (sales or otherwise).I find it dispicable. And the fact that many women see it as you being oversensitive shows that our society has not changed much.

OK - you can all think I am that "women's libber" I was accused of being 40 years ago! I am not afraid to say I expect to be treated with the same respect as any man! And excuse me but I am insulted by the idea of asking my husband to handle MY business!!! Let me have it, I can take it!

So Lentil, I would have him come in, give him a cup of coffee and a cookie, and tell him my concerns. I would do it nicely, but say I don't want to have to have the conversation with his manager nor do i want to change companies. I would also tell him I don't appreciate hearing him talk about his other customers, because not only is it unprofessional, but it lets me know he is talking about me as well and I don't expect my service providers to talk about me in the community!

Now I expect he will not take to the honesty very well, but he should hear you. Then if things don't improve, call his manager or switch companies.
pgr
BTW, still planning on coming to this area soon?


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Pgr555, I think KYHeirloomer said it best that the sales rep in this case is a lousy rep.
Male, female, black, green, or asexual 2'3" with horns--sales reps don't care what you look like as long as you spend the bucks so they can get their commision.

I've had my share of lousy reps, matter of fact one rep unwittingly showed me the 1001 and 1 ways to cheat with meat, had to call the cops on one coffee sales rep, and last year, well, last year was a doozy: I've never dealt with Sysco, did have a rep coming by every 3 mths to try to swing me over but I always told him flat out no. Then this new guy shows up, barges into my kitchen, shoves a freebie package of freeze dried hashbrowns under my nose, and I stop him short and tell him flat out that I won't deal with Sysco. He blows up, tells me I'm a fool and making a big mistake. I politely ask him for his card and then kick him out of my kitchen. From the card I call up the regional sales director and tell him of his employees behavior. Asked him to guarantee me that no more reps would come calling on me.


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## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

Interesting comments, I don't have sales reps per se......just contact owners when I need something from wholesalers/restaurant supply. Most of the time I just go get what I need, it's a perk to walk through the cheese room or the produce house. Farmer's don't have sales reps, neither does restaurant depot.....etc......
When I go through the wholesaler's walkin-storage room, there are always new products that catch my eye.....or cheeses that are just ripe.....always walk out with samples too......Plus they get a check right then, and don't have to worry about delivery. Though, when it's busy they do deliver....no salesman though.


But speaking of female discrimination....yesterday I had lunch at an Indian restaurant (KILLER>>>OH MAN< ).... most of the women customers had head scarves on...the owner (about mid 50's) directed the answers to my questions to my brother who is a doctor and essentially clueless about the health dept etc. At first I didn't really pick up on it, but it became obvious as the conversation went along.....the mid-twenties waitstaff had no problem making eye contact nor carrying on a conversation with me....a woman....

20 some odd years ago my son and I were totally ignored at a dim sum restaurant in SF...we were the only anglos in this huge place, placed in a back corner....the carts went around us.....finally I just got up and chased down the carts....interesting feeling discrimination....not a fun one.

I got the "old boy" sweetie, cutie, hon, thing last Spring when buying mass $10,000 worth of fish, found someone else to cover the shipment. Someone who put< "we appreciate your business and would not be in business if it weren't for you" on the bottom of their invoices. Now that's just wonderful lagniappe.-


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## lentil (Sep 8, 2003)

You're right. Perhaps I should have quoted Risque's recent post and her first post to this thread. It was her comment I addressed.

Shroom and pgr, I believe that there is a bias against women. *Not *by all men *nor* do all women feel the same. Many are able and more than willing to perpetuate the myths by playing the game and more power to them. I, like both of you, don't want to do that. The day I have to be sweeter to him than the guy down the street to get the same or better service is the day I get my husband to deal with him. Neither will happen any time soon.

But after reading all the comments here, I've come to the conclusion that my salesman just isn't good at his job and that maybe I've taken it personally. I didn't order yesterday and will make do with what I have or pick up what I need at Sam's. I'm considering changing suppliers, but will probably just fax my order for awhile. Maybe absense makes the heart grow fonder or familiarity breeds contempt.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Thanks Lentil, this is best thing, you can't argue with a black&white fax, either the item is there or it isn't. This is the procedure I've taken on several occasions when working for employers who insisted I use Purveyor "X", with slime-ball reps who would invariably either patronize me or assume I had oodles of time to talk about golf (never played it, never will)--during the lunch rush...


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## lentil (Sep 8, 2003)

Just a quick update. Pork pies all around this year, but not to me.:beer:


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## doryd (Dec 3, 2007)

This line alone almost made me spit the water I was drinking all over the computer I was laughing so hard. I'm CONSTANTLY saying this to my friends about the guys they date, LOL. Who knew it could apply to food suppliers?


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## lentil (Sep 8, 2003)

Yeah, Dory, you can always tell, can't you? No calls for a second date, no pork pies on the holiday. Sigh.....


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## stellasmomma (Dec 26, 2007)

I had similar rude treatment from a US Foods rep. How dumb can these people be? Do they think they can bully their way into getting our business?
Last time i checked any chef is tougher than any salesperson, any day of the week>


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## doryd (Dec 3, 2007)

And yet, like, my friends, you're still looking for acceptance from him, LOL.

Hang in there...looks like you got some good advice.  And here's mine...If he's just not that into you, look elsewhere. If NH is like Maine, there are others (even if the pot isn't that big to choose from, there IS a pot) who would LOVE to have your business.


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## lentil (Sep 8, 2003)

Acceptance? No, not so much. It's the convenience of having a rep that also deals with other businesses in my area which makes it easier to get a small delivery when I don't make the minimum. Using him is easier than changing my paper products from what I and my customers are used to since it seems that none of these companies carry the same lines. I'm used to the products and in all honesty, can't get some of them from other distributors. It's the delivery schedule that works for my business. 

He's the third rep I've had with this company and the first two were great. I like his company, just not him.

I have taken the advice offered here. I have my written order ready when he arrives which I hand to him and then walk away to do other things. Last week, I met him at his car and told him to look for my email as I didn't have time to speak with him. I'm even starting to get some things elsewhere so soon enough, he'll see that my orders have shrunk. Rather than get a case of something for convenience sake and then having 2/3rds of it on my shelf for weeks, I've been buying smaller amounts at Sam's. Saves me money, and since I go there anyway, doesn't put me out at all. This is the slow time for me, so there's really no point in having the larder full.

Turns out, I'm not that much into him, either.


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## doryd (Dec 3, 2007)

LOL and good for you!


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