# Anyone have experience with a Hobart A200 with a planetary assembly stuck on the shaft?



## risenshine (May 28, 2014)

I'm a home baker that was going to take a step up and start mixing in larger batches... Got a used A200T . Found out the main bearing was bad AND that the planetary has seized on the gear shaft. Hobart techs say "This happens some times on the A200s.." and asked if I had heated the shaft up to see if that will loosen it up.. This this amount of heat usually burns paint off and is followed by a strike from a sledge to jolt things apart.. He did warn that they needed to be cut off sometimes and this could run a couple thousand in service and parts.. I'm looking to see if anyone has had a similar experience and could recommend what to do ?

I've contacted a local tool and die shop to see what their approach would be to getting the two pieces separated. I thinking the lest destructive means will be to drill that shaft out past the planetary as close to the shaft diameter as possible and them maybe just destroy the shaft...

The mixer is in good condition and is the more recent A200T with bowl guard.. etc.. I paid $1000 and hope to get it back up and running for less than $400... I hoping this mixer will be worth the investment.

Any ideas or advice would be welcome

Thank you


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## risenshine (May 28, 2014)

The Saga Continues - I wanted to share my experiences and they unfold...

Since just showing up at the Hobart Repair facility in Cincinnati, would cost me about $250 to start with... I decided to see if I can do more here at home.. The mechanic at the facility was VERY helpful and understanding of my situation and gave me some very good advice. Thank you Ken at Hobart!

Working with the tool and die shop was also a very expensive route and would have cost hundreds as.

I DID get the planetary off with a combination of penetrating oil, and heat. I have a industrial heat gun ( electric) that gets up to 1100 degrees and heated the planetary to about 250 degrees. A propane type torch would also have worked but runs the risk of burning off the paint since they are a lot higher BTU. The electric heater did not remove the paint so I know it was a lower temperature, but would have if I left it there longer.

I had drilled out the key in the keyway to try to loosen things up and get more penetrating oil in that area...I was wondering if it may have been the key that fractured and the key was somehow hanging things up. This was not the case and  I'm not sure if this helped or not to drill it out.

I knew I'd have to sacrafice the shaft.. that is not a terribly expensive part ( about $100 ) compared with the planetary that is about $500. I took a hand sledge  originally kept the castle nut on the end to try and save the threads... I had to use enough force that it did not protect them and the end of that shaft was deformed. But I did get the planetary off the shaft..

The shaft had rusted. A very thin and fine coat of rust.  The part above this (either the oil seal and/or the bearing) is also fused on the shaft. Now that I know what is seizing them together, I can adjust my methods of getting them apart. 

The problem now is that the heat and pound method will not work. There is nothing to provide resistance on the part I want to push the shaft through. To pound on the shaft now would only push the one remaining gear against the auxiliary attachment gear and possibly damage these and still not provide the resistance needed anyway. I'm going to try to drill a hole the approximate thickness of the sidewall of the lil seal's collar on the shaft  try to split that ring. I'll also apply the penatrating oil and heat and hope that gets into the rusty areas and loosens that up.

That is today's goal....


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Perhaps a hydraulic press could be used, the kind that presses bushings and bearings into and out of housings and shafts - that's my W.A.G. based on my experience as my own shade tree mechanic.    <8^)


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## risenshine (May 28, 2014)

A press would have worked well... but it might have required the removal of the head from the stand. I also had the limitations that I did not have anyone near by who could help me transport this thing.. As you know, the A200 weighs about 200 lbs. 

I"m glad I chose trying to get this done at home. Getting it loaded in my van by my self would be a major project. The cost of labor would have cost more than the replacement parts.. I would not be surprised if labor would hve run about $500 alone ( $100/ hr at Hobart) plus gas to get it there. ( $60+)...

I got the planetary shaft out now and the O-ring spacer was seized on as well... It is all disassembled now and I'm adding up the replacement parts cost.. Bearings are relatively cheap and now would be the time to replace them... but they all feel good... smooth... no play.. I may not replace them all.. The final price will determine that..

All this was done because something corrosive got on the shaft.. Maybe it was just moisture / condensation? This emphasized the importance of LUBRICATION! 

I also got to see what overloading the mixer does.. I can see minor wear on the worm gear. As I said earlier, the key on the worm gear shaft was fractured. Also, seeing how the transmission works, and why you need to stop the gears before changing them.

Be good to your mixer and it will be good to you... Don't overload them and keep them maintained and they will run forever. A Grease Change is so easy to do and much cheaper than repairs...


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## mikelm (Dec 23, 2000)

Risen' -

In your OP you said you would heat the shaft to help remove the gear. This is backwards.

You wanted to heat the gear - to make it expand - and try not to heat the shaft, so it doesn't expand. Now that you're reassembling, put the shaft in your freezer for an hour or so (I'm assuming it will fit) to get it slightly shrunk, and heat whatever pieces you want to slide onto the shaft. That may help a lot. This method of assembly is called a shrink-fit.

For parts that aren't lubed, and not in contact with food, I strongly suggest you get some _Bullfrog_ brand lube and rust prevention spray. It's nothing short of miraculous. It's expensive, and not widely distributed, but readily available on the internet. I've used it a lot to free up badly-rusted-together parts, and keep them rust-free afterwards. It will run you $11-12 for a small can, but you will discover you can't live without it if you encounter this kind of problem from time to time.

Mike

No, I'm not working on commission


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## risenshine (May 28, 2014)

Hello Mike,

     Thank you for your response..  Yes.. you are right.. heat the gear.. Actually it was a collar.. same thing.... it was a very weird problem... If you look at the planetary shaft (the central and largest shaft in the mixer).. there are gears that slide on top and up from the bottom. The collar was seized so I could not slide the shaft out of the bottom gears.. and the bottom gears could not be removed with the shaft through them.... Basically I heated up that section and sprayed it down with a penetrating spray... I then placed a hand sledge inside and on top of the gears...This put a downward resistance on the assembly so when I hit the shaft with a hammer it pushed through the collar...

    Anyway.. The shaft was already pitted and would not have worked.. so I replaced it anyway... and I had to replace the collar too..  After doing all this, I realized the original problem was a broken key on the worm gear shaft and cracked keyway on the gear it stabilized. I could have just fixed that assembly and left the stuck shaft for another day.. It may have run for years that way.. Oh well.. live and learn.. 

   I will look into that penetrating spray.. I used CRS's and it seemed to work ok.. whatever got on that shaft was a corrosive liquid or something.. that spray was not able to penetrate through it... I will look into this lube you suggested.. Is that Buillfrog or Bullfrog?

   It is harder than heck to work off of the parts breakdown and not a repair manual..  I just got the last gear in that I ordered and they sent the wrong one... This thing has not been the best experience so far... but in the end it will be a nice mixer... I still have less in it than the market value so I'm not "underwater yet"..

Thanks again...

Tom


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## mikelm (Dec 23, 2000)

Tom-

That's BULLFROG, like the amphibian. Not sure why they named it that, but they do make a big fuss about being green (as in environment-friendly) so I guess it's their play on that. Anyhow, it's great stuff, and a little goes quite a long way. I got my first couple of cans from a local RV-supply place, but then they stopped carrying it, so I found it online. My guess is that it just looked too expensive and didn't move off the shelf. Once you find out how well it works, it's cheap at twice the price. Get the spray.can of *lubricant & rust blocker.* I don't have any experience with any of their other products, though I'd be favorably inclined toward them if I needed what they offer!

http://www.bull-frog.com/products/

Good luck

Mike


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## mikelm (Dec 23, 2000)

Tom... you said

*I then placed a hand sledge inside and on top of the gears...This put a downward resistance on the assembly so when I hit the shaft with a hammer it pushe**d through the collar...*

Obviously you are a professional engineer type. If your first attempt at a fix doesn't work...

GET A BIGGER HAMMER

or, apparently, a _couple_ of hammers/sledges.

Hope you're up and running by now.

Mike /img/vbsmilies/smilies/thumb.gif


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