# Professionalism



## montelago (Nov 19, 2007)

In one of the recent threads a comment was made to the effect that there is a lack of real professionalism among chefs. I personally feel that despite it's recent popularity, the idea of Chefs being like Gordon Ramsey storming around the kitchen berating people gives us a bad name. Considering the education, experience, long hours and dedication necessary to make it in this business, I feel that we should be making every effort possible to rise above the perception of chefs as blue collar,ranting drunks.

Any thoughts.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

I totally agree. I also believe that there should be a way to do away with these ridiculous hours.


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## montelago (Nov 19, 2007)

Good luck. I have yet to solve that riddle.


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## rivitman (Jul 23, 2004)

Every situation is different. And at each, the stakes in play, as well as those involved are different.

In the end, outside the superstars, nobody really gives a rap about chefs and cooks anyway, they toil in obscurity. So the good rep/bad rep ideal, or the thought that any of that can be changed is a pretty thin premise. That is a cultural problem that is particularly malignant in the food business in the USA.

It's a sorry state of affairs to be certain, but it is driven usually by the business and not kitchen personnel. Owners and corperations are commited to demanding whatever generates maximum revenue with the least outlay. They seldom care about how it's done. The care even less about working conditions, compensation, employee health, welfare, and they especially could care less about turnover in staff.

A felon or addict who can do the same work for a dollar less an hour than the clean cut, freshly scrubbed culinary school grad is just fine by the owners of most establishments, and unseen by the public. There is no premium for professionalism. They generally want cheap. Professional or not.

These star chefs seem to raise the level of respectability of the craft momentarily. All to no avail, because the lot of chefs and cooks hasn't really improved at all in twenty years.

As to bad conduct, we have all seen it, many of us have done it. Very few of us have that as part of our core makeup; we were just trying to get the job done in the face of huge adversity. I'm not copping out here. I am always totally responsible for my actions. But I regret very little, because in the context of of the moment, when sucess or failure is on the line, I'll do what it takes to make it happen and explain my position and apologise later if need be.


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## jim berman (Oct 28, 1999)

You said it, 100%. The only aspect I would add, is that some form of a "suit" (you know... clean-cut, well groomed) does well to move into the corporate realm or management. Other than that, you hit it!
Perhaps the reason we often come across the chef with monster ego... it has to be, because it doesn't mean anything to anybody else.


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## salliem (Nov 3, 2006)

Add some respect along with the professionalism. Yesterday I got to work before everyone else and was looking through some of the job applications we have received, was not surprised to see that most had been arrested at least once..these are for the most part the people who adhere to "the no call, no show" policy.
I work hard and I take pride in what I do, sure wish some other people did as well.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Interesting... We are all members of the "second oldest trade in the world" but we have no leadership, no national organization, and above we have no definition as to what our trade and title really entails. In N.America there is no proven way to reach the postion of Chef, or even of Cook, we have no national standards or benchmarks to adhere to. Private Schools take advantage of this and every 6 mths pump out "Chefs". Many businesses see our trade as a joke, and treat us accordingly, why pay someone to create something when you can buy the product ready made and frozen? All you need is an eejit to put it on a plate.

We can't enforce professionalism in our trade until we can define WHAT a Chef actually is and how best to attain it. We can't start to enforce professionalism until we have a nation-wide body to set standards and benchmarks. After that it is easy to see who fits into model and who does not.


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## logghib (May 4, 2005)

Is this about small business independent restaurant chefs? Hotel chefs? Corporate chefs? And who is it that is applying these stereotypes to these people? How is this affecting the industry? Are we not still pulling in a ton of money all over the country?

Small private and family businesses are, in my experience, less formal and professional and larger corporations. It's true in hospitality, retail, IT services, you name it. Bookstore managers, CPAs, media directors, can all be screaming hostile jerks who will make employees work 50+ hour weeks and still take paperwork home. 

Maybe I need specific examples in the problems of the cooking trade that need to be addressed, but as flawed as the system is I don't see it as being particularly more flawed than a lot of industries. Lots of people work long hours for not enough pay. The average pay for a medical resident in this country is $34k a year, and that typically includes one 24+ hour shift every week.

Again, I don't get the problem. Some law firms have reputations for beeing blood-sucking scoundrels. Others have a flair for promotion and publicity and they thrive. Almost the entirety of Gordon Ramsay's staff at Aubergine willingly followed him to his next venture when he left. He makes good money. Other chefs are seen as overpaid hacks. Some of them deserve that reputation.

If people are suggesting there should be some kind of magic credential for which all chefs must adhere and then will earn the respect they crave and deserve - not only do I not agree with it I don't believe in it. Average consumers don't care about master or executive chef certification, they care about public reputation, word of mouth, and personal experience. It's an entrepreneurial industry and if you want respect and recognition then you have to, like almost every industry ever, go out their and grab it.


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## rivitman (Jul 23, 2004)

Nobody is applying a stereotype, because they are not stereotypes to begin with. They are genreal facts though exceptions will always occur. And they effect every sector of the food business.

I'll leave you to look up the numbers at the U.S. department of labor's website, but you will find, if you do the research, that wages in the food business are some of the lowest and most stagnant in America.

Yet most Chef's, GM's, and F+B's will spin tales of woe about how hard it is to find solid, reliable, talented help these days.

And unlike the medical resident example, kitchen help's wages will grow little over time.

What causes all this? Greed, pure and simple. With a healthy dose of low standards for food on the part of the American dining public. American owners and corperations want riches, caring not what path is taken. Diners want cheap more than they want quality.

The local Applebees is packed. Every night of the week. The french bistro, with the school trained chef with the outstanding resume struggles to stay in business. The steakhouse with mediocre beef and cheap well drinks (and the kitchen staffed by teenagers and felons) does just fine for it's owner thank you. The local commericail strip, five miles long, is DOMINATED by the chain stores.

Meanwhile professional organizations like the ACF twiddle thier thumbs and have cooking contests, and tout certification as a path to a better life for cooks. It won't work for most, and never will.

Then you have the evil empire, AKA the national restaurant association, and it's state level chapters, lobbying state and federal governments in opposition to minimum wage laws, child labor laws, unemployment insurance laws, workplace safety and health laws, and immigration controls.

Who represents cooks? Nobody really, except for the unions that represent a very small minority of cooks in this country.


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## montelago (Nov 19, 2007)

I guess that maybe my question was partly misunderstood. I am not looking for legitimacy or recognition by any governing body, although that may be appropriate in our industry. I am talking more about the same problem that mechanics suffer from. It takes training and skill to be a qualified mechanic, but try to find one that is trusted and has a good reputation. I think we do this to ourselves to some extent with the unprofessional behavior that we exhibit year in and year out. I keep going back to the example of giving proper notice when leaving a job. This seemed to be a pretty hotly debated topic in another thread. I just can't help but think that a lot of the reputation we have is deserved, and able to be remedied through our own efforts. We shouldn't rely on the Food Network to stereotype us all as irritating people yelling Bam and saying EVOO and sammies. Maybe there needs to be an organized effort to create an officially recognized and regulated body for our profession.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Unions? Represents Cooks?
Every Hosptiality Union I was ever co-erced into garnisheed my paycheck and then turned around and told me I wasn't available for either a) Union representation, AND b) Union benifits, for a probationary perioid from anywhere of 3 mths to 1 yr.. Quite frankly it's been my observation based on 25 yrs in this biz that Unions won't do diddly-squat for the member (or even issue them a scrap of paper acknowledging that they are in a Union....) unless there's money in it for them.

There are two ways to make an employer pay out more wages. The first way is to put a gun to the employer's head and say "or else". This is the route that the Unions inviaribly take. The second way is to take the member, give him the proper training and support that he needs and move him up the ladder, with higher salary and responsibilities. This is kind of the like th saying of "give a man a fish and he'll be hungry tomorrow, but teach him how to fish and he can look after himself". Never in my career have I seen a Union offer it's members training or make funds availabe for training. I have seen 45 yr old prep cooks doing the same job for over 20 yrs with inflated wages in a Union House and turn bright green with envy when the new guys fly past them on thier merit and not seniority.

Here in N.America we have no standards or benchmarks to govern what IS a Chef, we have everybody and his dog claiming to be a Chef, we have a public who want cheap food and don't care what they shovel down their maws, don't really care how it is prepared, and we have opportunists who take the fact that there are crappy cooks and crappy food and a market that will pay for it. The opportunists are smart, they give the people what they want. 

Nothing will change untill we have a nation-wide standard for cooks, then a standard for Chefs. Remember you can't make a good Chef from a lousy cook... Nothing will change until the public is convinced that they will have to pay for good food.


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## shoemaker (Sep 20, 2007)

Unions !!! LMAO !!!!! I worked as a union baker for 11 years in MI, represented by the UAW, somehow/someway.......anyways, the deadbeats that mopped the floors made about $2.00/hr more than the bakers and cooks. Was my first union job, will be my last. They did nothing for me except withdraw union dues from every paycheck. Never, ever, again !!!


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## brooklynchef (Nov 26, 2007)

Sorry to chime in so late in the conversation, first let me start by responding or commenting on the issue of unions. With unions, there is too much "that's not my job, do it yourself" to maintain proper order in a kitchen.. The fact is is that sometimes a cook is in the weeds setting up his station for example, and could use an extra pair of hands from another cook or dishwasher who is done with his mise. "that's not my job," attitude just does not work.

Secondly, I think that those few celebrity chefs (Ramsey, Batali, Lagasse...) and even non-chef food celebs (Rachel Ray, Paula Deen, and the others,) do a lot of good. Forget the fact that we as chef's are largely looked upon as Gods. (walk down the street in a clean, crisp chef coat, with your restaurant's logo on it, and watch people smile and point you out to their friends) Because of the celebrity thing, being a chef has become being more than what it used to be...at least from popular general perception. It is respect. We are not perceived as the dregs of society anymore (even though many of us actually might be) But these TV chefs and non chefs have gotten people, many many people very interested in food. The more people know about food, the more they demand from our profession. That can only be good for our profession. Professionalism that you speak of? Well, its bound to show up at some point.


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## caterchef (Oct 12, 2009)

Just thought I would try the "search" on this forum and things have changed in just 2 years. Now we have a woman in a pink chefs coat saying her kitchen is "naughty" and a woman with spiked hair declaring the "worst cooks in america." I visited the Vo-Tec campus to see the culinary arts program and it look like the schools rejects were all congregated there, I would be hard pressed to hire any of them as a pot washer. I don't think any of them could even spell professionalism. Once I was proud to put on my double breasted white chefs coat and T-shirt and watch as my Executive Chef with his double breasted chef coat with a white dress shirt and black tie underneath explain a procedure that was not written down any where. Nowadays I have 6 trailers full of $1/4 mil. worth equipment and no qualified cooks or chefs to use it and no prospects for it to change. The demand has never been greater and qualificaton has never been so bad. The "Old School" is closed.:thumb:


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## leeniek (Aug 21, 2009)

I think professionalism comes from within a person and has to be brought out in some. Our industry does have some bad stereotypes but we can overcome that and be the best we can be. It's not the only one with long hours too.. my husband has worked in the graphics industry for well over 25 years and he has pulled his share of all nighters to get the job done. For the first few years we were married we only saw each other on Friday nights as he was working the rest of the time. 

Foodpump hit it bang on.. and I have to agree.. there are career colleges out there pumping out new chefs every six months or less and I think that is a huge cash grab. I looked at going to a private school and my first impression of the "dean" was salesman and not educator. He told us that after taking his first year course he could get us a job as a line cook in any kitchen in the country... hmm... I was the kitchen at my last job and I was able to get my current job on my own merits without his help so I decided I'd be better off saving my money for something else.


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## greyeaglem (Apr 17, 2006)

It's always been extremely frustrating to me that although professional cooking is considered a trade, the trade system doesn't apply. By that I mean the other trades have a system (initiated by the unions) where you work up from one level to the next under the guidance of other people. I won't pretend to know the levels, as I don't. I know of terms such as apprentice, journeyman, master, etc. Our trade has no such system. Why isn't our labor valued the same as a plumber or electrician? It used to drive me nuts that in my state a hairdresser had to pass a state board test to cut someone's hair and have a license to do so, but any moron could handle the food served in arestaurantt. I lobbied hard for a licensing system. Don't know if I had any influence on it, but we ended up with the Safe Serv course which in my opinion created more problems than it solved. I remember when a home cooked meal was a pot roast. Now if someone makes hamburger helper, it's considered homemade. No surprise that they don't care what they eat in a restaurant. I am proud of the fact that the younger people on my crew are saying they don't like to go out to eat anymore at other restaurants because they're spoiled by the food where they work. And it's nothing fancy. Now that they know what good food is, they won't settle for the mediocre food that most restaurants put out. So I guess that's our best strategy. Shoe 'em what good food is so they demand it. Customers drive all businesses, and if they demand better, the industry will have to pay people to deliver it. At the place where I work, the business was in a downward spiral. I didn't change much. I changed the appearance of the menu, added a few things and made sure the execution was what I wanted. I started making most of the salad dressings instead of buying prepared. All these little things added up to a point where people all over the area are talking about us now. We finished the year with revenues 9.7% above last year. Added cost for doing things right? Absolutely nothing. We actually saved money while improving our quality. Once everybody else figures this out, they'll want the people who can do things right. And the druggie felons who only know how to work the microwave will be clueless. It'll happen. Probably not in my lifetime, but it will happen.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

greyeaglem;294227 said:


> Customers drive all businesses, and if they demand better, the industry will have to pay people to deliver it.
> 
> Yes, but that's only part of the equation of this whole mess
> 
> ...


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## greyeaglem (Apr 17, 2006)

Agree with everything you said, Pump. I never worked for a union, but I have a brother who's a machinist who did. I saw the way the unions worked 30 years ago and learned my lesson without ever joining one. What's sad is people fought and died to form unions so they could have the right to make a living wage. The unions started off as a good thing, and union organizers and workers fought (and died) to gain rights that we still enjoy today. (40 hour work week). Then the unions went the way of all good things. Corruption came in, the mafia got involved (anyone seen Jimmy Hoffa lately?) and the union workers became extortion-paying slaves to the very system they fought for. The unions collect the workers' dues and do nothing. I worked in telecom for awhile and we had union activists hanging around the place all the time. This was at a time when AT&T had huge lay-offs. They told me they were willing to pay I don't remember how many million dollars to convert the company I worked for to union. I told the guy he should take those millions and use it to help the laid off AT&T, workers as it was their money in the first place. That just shows how the unions operate. They'll take their memebers' dues and use it to recruit new members instead of helping the people who actually paid for that help. Those laid off workers can't pay dues, so use the money to find new members. Well, they showed me what they'd do for me. Absolutely nothing. When I pointed that out, the guy left and never came back. I told him he and his union ought to be ashamed of themselves. The restaurant industry never did pay what it should. How do we get away from the whole tipping thing? That discussion has been going on longer than I can remember and no one has an answer. I used to have a boss that said he wished he could charge according to what the person eating there did for a living. Oh, you're a plumber? Your steak is $100. Factory worker? $15. Lawyer? $200. I used to laugh my *ss off about it, but he had a point. Why is everyone else's time and labor worth so much more than ours? I never have figured that out. Which reminds me about the whole 40 hr. week thing. It may have changed over the years (I haven't checked into it), but it used to be employers had to pay overtime after 40 hrs. Except for restaurant workers. We had to work 47 hours before we got overtime. Guess we don't work as hard. I don't know why any of us even do this. We all have to be nuts.


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## caterchef (Oct 12, 2009)

> The Unions. Before I go any further I must say that I have never worked outside of the hospitality industry. Evrything I write about unions is based on hospitality unions.
> 
> The Unions are the cause of our lack of professionalism, not only in hospitality but industry wide. When I started looking for a profession in the '50s Chefs, Schoolteachers, Plumbers, Electricians, Store Managers etc. all were lured to the factories because they paid more money, until the Japanese import started coming in. Then the factories started making cheaper products to compete the imports but the import were made better and sold more. And the Unions kept demanding more wages for a poorer quality product. To the Unions it dosen't matter want your skill level is as long as you pay your dues, you get about the same wages whether you sweep the floor or assemble the product.The politicians didn't see it coming or didn't care as their retirement came from the taxpayers. Well, I saw what was coming and went back to school to study electronics. When I graduated a Chrysler executive wanted to come to work for Chrysler so, I ask what they paid because electronics was just starting in the automobile industry. He said Union scale was $7.80 so, I ask what janitors got he said $7.50 so, I told him if I ever needed a job to hand me the broom instead of the Osillocope or VTVM. Then the Japanese took over the electronic industry for the same reason so, you can see I have no use for the Unions. Then I went back to cooking.:thumb:


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## xjmrufinix (Mar 16, 2009)

I think a lot of these issues are all interrelated. A good point was raised about the rates of pay and how that affects the standards of quality and what we can reasonably expect from a cook, but I think most of us who've seen how unions work in the kitchen don't buy that as a workable solution. I do think that low wages contribute to the problem in a big way, but those low wages are really coming from a trend towards undervaluing food services and the food itself, rather any lack of professional standards or trade unions. There has been a trend towards lower-quality processed and pre-packaged foods which simply don't require much skill or pride to produce. Instead of charging more for better quality, we lower quality and try to make up the difference in quantity (number of covers) and decreased labor cost (less professionalism). The time spent and the skill involved keeps plummeting.

Those of us lucky enough to work in fine dining may be part of an exception to this rule, but that represents a tiny part of the modern food service industry. The romantic media representation of Chefs is more an ideal than a reality. If you want to get your finger on the pulse of culinary trends in America, you're better off going to McDonald's. That's what millions of people are really eating. 

Even those of us who still cling to these romantic ideas about food and professionalism, myself included, still feel and often cede to pressure to do things the new way. I would love to say every sauce I made contained stock made from bones I roasted myself rather than Minor's, or that my pride has never allowed me to serve pre-made hors d'oeuvres. But I've got an owner who needs his kitchen staff to work as few hours as possible feeding as many people as possible, and as times get tougher, those people are willing to pay less and less. It makes economic sense to cut corners. I'm not being paid to be an artist, however I may like to think of myself.


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## steelybob (Dec 4, 2009)

The word Professional is one of the most subjective words in the English language. I've met untold incompetent "professionals" in all walks of life who are only professionals because they successfully negotiated a battery of multiple-choice, scantron tests that demonstrate little more than one's ability to use a No. 2 pencil, let alone the culinary arts, computer science, medical knowledge, legal awareness, or financial saavy.

We all have completely different ideas about what constitutes professionalism, and it's a dangerous path logically to assume that we all agree on what professionalism is. This is true for any profession, but I think especially true for something like the culinary arts which has such diverse working environments and roles, from one extreme to the other in all cases.

Again, we all view the concept of professionalism differently. In some cases we think it has something to do with demeanor and that if our demeanor is in any way unpleasant we're somehow being unprofessional. However, in most disciplines that has nothing to do with professionalism, it has to do with courtesy or something similar.

And imho, Gordon Ramsay is the epitome of a culinary professional. It's just that most Americans know him only from "****'s Kitchen". In "Kitchen Nightmares" however he demonstrates inescapable professionalism under serious duress and in one of the most difficult contexts (to come in and completely rearrange one's entire living & assets), and well above anything I've ever seen another chef demonstrate on television.

two cents anyway.


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## pembroke (Sep 26, 2009)

Wow! Sounds like you're on a real downer? Thinks can't be that bad in the US?


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## chefray (Sep 29, 2009)

Keep in mind that old school didn't involve a school. It involved breaking your neck for 3 or 4 years to become an Sous Chef. Then, with a few more years of breaking your whole body, you had earned the honor of the title Chef De Cuisine. 

Also, I have to agree with BrooklynChef on his point about celebrity culinary show hosts(I struggle to call many of them Chef) drawing recognition to our profession. The problem is that they tend to draw rock star recognition. If you see a man(or woman) get out of a chauffeured towncar in a very expensive suit and he gets stares, it's not because he's dressed like Trump. It's because people assume he's powerful. If I get out of my truck in my whites and get stares, it's likely because people are waiting for me to throw some salt and cheese all over the place, tell jokes, and be otherwise entertaining. 

I'm not saying that the recognition is a bad thing, just that it's not always good either.


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

As a former Licensed Culinary Arts instructor in New York, and having taught both in the private and public sector I can tell you that all the schools are concerned with is PROFIT first. In many cases the schools are not to blame for the state of our business, I blame the student. You can learn as much as you want and more if you are sincerely interested and pay attention and ask questions. If you have it in your hands heart, and brain, others will notice and you will only move upward. If you are a clock-watcher, and that's not my job type, then get out now this business is not for you. As you mature you get better and smarter now apply it to your daily menu. Give respect and you will get it. I have been in this business since I was 14 years old and am now 68 and I would do it all over again. I worked in the best Hotels in Europe and New York and I worked in some dumps to, but I learned from each, that's what made it all worth while for me. I retired when I was 43 made enough money , but went back to cooking because I missed the daily hustle bustle not for the money. Now I still work 2 or 3 days a week cause it keeps me young and up on new things in food. I constantly learn and love every minute that I do.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

A good two cents, but.......

Many of the professions and trades have a governing body to hold their members accountable to THEIR idea of professionalism.

As we have no governing body, no set standards or benchmarks, our collective butts are wide open for the schools to interpret, for the Unions to walk over, and for employers to lo-ball us. 


I don't want to knock schools, but in many cases the students are sheep and have been led around. I think school is like a piggy-bank: You can only take out what you put in. Still, To tell a 17 yr old that within 12 mths he will earn $45-$60.00 is pretty low-down.

A grade 2 teacher once told me never to beleive anything I saw on television. Good advice, and I heed it still to this day.


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## steelybob (Dec 4, 2009)

My only point is "be careful what you wish for".

PS - Ed, well said that man... I'm a career switcher, and you just outlined my own experience in the marketing world from filer to creative director over the course of 20 years. and it's no mystery to me why the kitchen plays out the exact same way. and why you'd keep going back for more -)


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

UNIONS In their day (30s 40s and 50 s)were helpful in securing the American Worker a good salary and benefits. But then through the abuse of power and infiltration of organized crime quickly became the Downfall of the American Economy. Ask yourself how can one justify a guy putting ribits in a car on a line in a factory making $80 t0 100 thousand or more per year with OT and benefits? , Or Chrysler having to pay employees even when plant is closed due to lack of sales. Each US built vehicle cost us $!800 to 2500.00 per to cover benefits . No wonder Japan took over. I think within the next 5 years our government will sell it's stake of GM to Toyota. We taught Japan how to build a car and set up assembly lines, They in turn showed us how to build with quality and consistency.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Hate Unions, hate 'em with a passion that's best not to get me started....

That being said.......

The one common denominator between ALL Unions is the right to garnishee paycheques. Strike for higher wages, get them, and your cut on the higher paycheque gets increased too. I seriously wonder if ANYONE has made any effort to get a Union's audited financial report out to it's members. 

Take away this common denominator and you don't have a Union: A guild maybe, a governing body maybe, but there's not a whole lot of money to be made.


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

My uncle was a business agent for the Longshoremans Unions in New York back in the 50s. He was arrested for extortion of union funds. The president of the union was a convicted fellon. When you shaped up down at the piers for work , you had to pay off the shop steward or union deligate in order to work. Thank God the day of unions are over and or numbered.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

How do we get rid of them in the hospitality biz?

Many union shops are now stating to offer employees the choice not to become union--but--get this--they still will garnishee union dues from the paycheque....


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## ed buchanan (May 29, 2006)

If all the employees vote the union out, it can be done, Another way which we did in NY was to find somebody with any kind of union charter from the state , put him or her on payroll and he then becomes our union. This is called a sweetheart contract and is legal and no other union can come in. Heck of a lot cheaper then a real union and no hassles.

Employees should note that 1. You are paying to work and 2. You don't need unions, they need you in this day and age.


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