# Jumping into the Fire or not



## planethoff (Apr 25, 2011)

The thought of returning to the industry and starting my own place has been haunting my brain for the last couple years.  I am living very comfortably and working a cake job that pays fairly well, but I am not completely happy.  Staying the course is the most prudent and fiscally responsible route, but the urge to run a kitchen again and feed people great food is so alluring.  I would seriously be putting myself out on a limb and taking on some debt to make it happen, but it is on my mind all the time.

It has been just over a decade since I worked in a kitchen, I had a personal chef business for a couple years, but that was a whole different thing.  I have been GM of 3 different places, Kitchen Manager/Chef De Cuisine for 2, and worked almost every imaginable position over the course of my life.  My parents had a place when I was young and both sides of my grandparents were restauranteurs.  I used the restaurant business as a way to get through to the next thing, but I have recently realized it was THE thing all along.  

What do I do?


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

There is nothing quite like having your own place. I did it for 13 years and have no regrets. I would have regrets if I hadn't done it. I also have no regrets about no longer being an owner. I have been cured of ownership :~)

I am sure you know this part, but it *was* my life for 13 years. Now I work for someone else and have a life once again. Wouldn't trade my journey with anyone else, been a helluva ride so far!


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## planethoff (Apr 25, 2011)

That is the thing cheflayne. Am I willing to give up my "life" to do this? I live pretty cushy. so cushy that having the pressure of a place might be good for me. I'm just south of 50 so it's a bit late in the game, but I know I could handle it. Hey 50'is the new 30 right? Lol


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## lagom (Sep 5, 2012)

50 is the new 30 just refers to how many years you still gave left to work until retirement [emoji]128556[/emoji]

Seriously though, I've been an owner for a long time. I tried a few years ago to divest and just work as a head chef in a small boutique hotel and conference facility, nice work, good staff. I got bored really quick.

Get a well thought out plan together. Find a good, real bastard of an accountant who won't pull punches and give you honest brutal feedback and advice. Go for it.

It's not really giving up your life, but you are changing it.


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## silver pantry (Jan 1, 2016)

I'm not so sure its just a mental thing. I'm nearing 50 and recently left the daily grind for about a year.  I'm back in it with my own business (I got brave enough mentally), but add that ownership pressure to the physical grind and it's no joke.  If the concept doesn't work as quick as you want it to, there is no rest to your body or mind...and this effects your family dynamic.

I've had to make the same choice.  I'm going out on my own late in life and don't regret it, but I have to admit, part of it is out of the desperation I can't make it enough $ in corporate kitchens to ever retire.  The other part is that I know my body can't hold up in a kitchen till I'm 65...I have to make some bigger money now or I'm (and my family) are screwed anyway.

That said, you probably won't regret it if you have the desire and already understand that it will be hard.  You just may want to test your stamina out in someone else's kitchen for a bit first.


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

I vote for doing it. Sure, you should plan long and hard on how to do it. How much of a life you have outside of it depends largely on how you set it up. But it also depends on what you consider a life, what activities are important to you. 

     My leisure activities center around going to orchards and farms in season, canning, reading cookbooks and other food related activities, getting out and finding other people to talk about food with. If I could find a cooking job working in the right kitchen that included those activities and my life wasn't limited to me spending all day in a windowless box just sweating out food production and cleaning up the mess, I would be very happy.  And of course, you need some down time to spend time with family and friends. 

    In any event, I've heard it said that in old age, we regret what we didn't do. Life is short and has an uncertain length. If you want to do it that badly, do it now.


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## theelectricchef (May 18, 2016)

I second Chefwriter. Go with your gut and go for it. It will be not fun to live with those 'what ifs". I, myself am in a so called "cushy" corporate job but slowly finding my way back to my passion. This time it is on my terms. I hope this helps.


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## lagom (Sep 5, 2012)

If it's money that you're looking for then I will honestly say that you almost never get wealthy working for someone else in our business. 

Before I got out on my own many years ago I had a comfortable life, nice house, car , paycheck with a good bonus plan. My 70 hours a week served me well. 

Once I started working for myself I saw what I could really do with my talent. It's hard and time consuming but the rewards are worth it. My staff is my own dedicated crew. Part or my family. I pay and treat them as such and they do whatever needs done. I still work long days but the rewards are much dearer.

Edit

My financial rewards over the years have been great. Im north of 50 with 2 knockouts kids in college and 2 more to go before I retire. I have multiple houses in multiple countries and look forward to leaving my kids and wife in good shape when I check out to the great kitchen in the sky.


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## planethoff (Apr 25, 2011)

Thanks for the kind words and encouragement everyone. I've been musing the idea with my wife for a long time now, but actually sat down and had a serious "I'm gonna do this talk". So, I think it's really happening. I have a long road ahead, so I will periodically post updates to this thread to document my adventure.

I plan to have a solid business plan developed in the next six months and am looking to get the place running in an 18-36 month time frame. I am focusing on a 75-100 seat place, but am not limiting myself to that. I will scout a few locations in the next few months and use three suitable places for mock planning to hone my concept and get the general feel for location costs, equipment requirements, staffing levels, etc. I don't plan on shopping for an actual lease for at least a year.

My goal is to have enough to fund the place with no profit or paycheck for me for one year when the doors open. (Is that still the standard?)

My menu is currently all over the place. There are so many things I want to do, but I know I need to keep it relatively simple, so cutting my entire repertoire into a one page menu will be hard, but necessary. I know I can do daily specials, but there still has to be a lot of great dishes cut from the menu.

@Lagom- Obviously, I want to make money, but this is about way more than that. I make a comfortable living now, but the thing I like to do the most is cook, feed people, and enjoy the company of friends and family. I know all the headaches and hard work associated with running a place, but am not worried at all. I did it very successfully for other people. It will be much easier to do it for myself. (I think)

A question I would like to pose though is about Investors. Is that an avenue I should pursue? Does anyone have any opinion or experience with investors that could give me some insight? I could probably make it alone (and with a loan), but there are a few people who have expressed great interest in backing me. (and I know they are legit offers)

I know I am all over the place right now, but there is so much to it and I'm just starting. So, I am open to any and all advice.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

The one potential sore point that can develop with investors is that once the doors are open for business and they come in as guests...they act like they own the place... because...they do. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif


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## planethoff (Apr 25, 2011)

cheflayne said:


> The one potential sore point that can develop with investors is that once the doors are open for business and they come in as guests...they act like they own the place... because...they do.


Yes. That is kind of my line of thinking, but I am still entertaining the possibility. I would be able to open sooner, have less personal risk, and be able to reach for a better location. (Maybe waterfront? Without them there is no way). The other factor is the potential ones I have Are far away and I wouldn't expect them to come in more than once a year. Wouldn't mind more, but doubtful.

Since it seems you have experience, how do you handle them? Repayment schedule, % of profit, just a cut when business is sold? How do you draw the line of control and management decisions? (Obviously lawyer, but how do you structure it?)


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## greyeaglem (Apr 17, 2006)

If you can possibly stay away from investors, I very, very strongly encourage you to do so. Especially if they are people who have no restaurant experience. You cannot apply the same standards for profit, etc. as you do to other businesses in the same time frame. Restaurants just don't work the same way as you have no way of knowing from one day to the next how many people will come through your door and it takes awhile to establish a solid clientele. At least until the place is established, plus you are working with perishable stock. Most investors don't understand this and expect X amount of profit from day one. I have witnessed horrible scenes involving investors where they have come into the place, directly messed with and berated the crew until the whole staff walked off mid shift. They often don't understand that there's a honeymoon period when a place first opens where everybody and their dog have to try it. This naturally tapers off after a couple of years (in most places anyway) and the place settles in to what will be it's normal business pace. But to the unknowing, they see it as a fail and then starts the "what are we doing wrong" merry-go-round where they start to change the menu constantly, etc. and alienate the clientele they did have. Better to do this on your own if you can so you have complete control of the direction of the business and can make intelligent decisions based on your knowledge of your business and your clientele, without it being totally money driven. If you have investors, you have to answer to them. Better to answer to yourself. As for if you should or shouldn't do it, that's a decision only you can make. There are, as you have pointed out, pros and cons. My gut feeling is if you don't try it, you will always regret it and wonder what could have been. Give it a shot, but don't ruin yourself financially over it. Sometimes things just don't work out for reasons beyond our control (economy goes south, for example) and one of the biggest mistakes I see owners make is not knowing when to close. I doubt this will happen to you, but what I am saying is make sure you don't lose everything you have worked for if something does go wrong.


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## lagom (Sep 5, 2012)

Investors, do you really want them?


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Planethoff said:


> Since it seems you have experience, how do you handle them? Repayment schedule, % of profit, just a cut when business is sold? How do you draw the line of control and management decisions? (Obviously lawyer, but how do you structure it?)


I feel that a repayment schedule is the most straight forward approach with the least chances of disagreements, however it is not without pitfalls. As to drawing the line of control and management decisions this can also be spelled out pretty well on paper, with that being said though, the issues that can muddy the waters are simply that most investors don't really understand the restaurant biz.

They come in on a busy night and expect a table. A table that could filled with paying guests. Even if they pay, that table could, instead be filled with potentially new to the restaurant guests that wind up being so happy with their experience that they turn into regulars, given the chance to dine, but that requires a table being available and not occupied by investors.

This is just one small example, there are plenty of other similar scenarios that I am sure you can come up with minimal thought.

I expect to explain my business thoughts, business decisions, and business philosophies to employees as part of fostering a team atmosphere. Doing that with investors as well, is many times an unproductive exercise in futility and requires an additional time investment from an owner's already full dance card.


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

There are ways of jumping into the fire without getting burnt. Why not look into a small cafe that serves breakfast and lunch. Or a small 40 seat Bistro maybe with a small outside courtyard with a small  two butt kitchen. I started my business at 47 and retired at 61 and it was the best thing I ever did. My business wasn't a B&M and I didn't need a lot of capital because my clients gave me the use of a kitchen for upscale Employee cafe feeding and catering. IN your case, you miss doing what you love and do well. What we all get from this business is a great feeling of pride, accomplishment and self-satisfaction. Do you really need a business with a lot of employees and headaches. At this stage of your life it should be a restaurant you can Chef De Cuisine with low overhead. low payroll and manageable hours. You already have a cake job, what you want in your business is to have your cake and eat it too..........Chef Bill


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## planethoff (Apr 25, 2011)

Thanks again everybody. I really knew that investors were a path to avoid, but the idea of extra money can sometimes cloud judgement. 

ChefBilly, I picked 75-100 thinking about possibility of a banquet room. Looking closer at the potential overhead cost increase with that number of seats. I think you have steered me well to downscale my plan. I am so happy I started this thread. Just that nugget of wisdom might have saved me years of anguish. I want to cook great food, not babysit a drama filled crew.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

Planethoff said:


> enjoy the company of friends and family.


Uuuuuhhhhh....you sure about this?


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## planethoff (Apr 25, 2011)

Someday said:


> Uuuuuhhhhh....you sure about this?


HAHA So true. Don't know why I put that. The only family I have around is my wife and she would probably be there a lot, but I was more referring to the close knit camaraderie of a good crew. I know the only life outside of my restaurant will be the couple hours I will get to sleep.


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## nicko (Oct 5, 2001)

Don't take on debt to do this it will only make a difficult situation worse. I often have this same thought but one things brings me back to reality and that is could you really stand the work now? It is 10 years later man you are not the same person and it is a physically demanding work. Maybe you can find a happy medium and work a few days in your spar time in a kitchen to help fill the obvious void in your current work situation. In my opinion it is not worth putting your family in a financial risk over.


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

Nicko said:


> Don't take on debt to do this it will only make a difficult situation worse. I often have this same thought but one things brings me back to reality and that is could you really stand the work now? It is 10 years later man you are not the same person and it is a physically demanding work. Maybe you can find a happy medium and work a few days in your spar time in a kitchen to help fill the obvious void in your current work situation. In my opinion it is not worth putting your family in a financial risk over.


Nicko, I still think this way after retiring from this business 4 years ago. When passion is in your blood you can't just filer it out. I know in my case this business gave me what I gave it. It's the only job or business I have ever worked that gave me self fulfillment and a great sense of accomplishment and self pride on what I did. I would wish this on everyone in any occupation. I think if I ever did get back into this business. I would do it as a partner with managers and Chefs working with me.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

I dunnoo....

If it were me, after 10 years not in the business, I'd go and work for someone for at least a few months before I took the plunge.  The benefits are:

-Chance to refamiliarize yourself with suppliers, products, and prices.

-"                                                        " staffing, what's available, what they expect, what you expect

-Chance to network with people in the business.  You're not going to hear about leasing a turn-key place from Craigslist,

In other words, get to know the market all over again.  Its changed after 10 years.


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## nicko (Oct 5, 2001)

@ChefBillyB While I do agree with you that you should pursue your passions and not work a dead end job. However, I feel it is a different story when you have a family. One big factor I want to point out here it is different losing a lot of money in your twenties and thirties as opposed to your fifties. My Dad who was a very successful business man once told me that is it is different to lose $20k, $50K, $100K when you are in your twenties and thirties than later in life. When you lose the money early on you have the time and energy to make it back. Later in life it is just much harder. You are older you have more demands your body doesn't work the way it did 10-20 years ago. I feel it is important to understand that when making this decisions.

Here is what I would say.to @Planethoff

Have you and your wife been diligent with saving for your retirement. If you are in good shape yes go for it.
What is your current debt to savings ratio. If your debt is higher than your savings then no I would not do this you will put your family at too much risk.
If you have no cushion financially when this is all over and potentially fails on you then no way. If you have some cushion after it is all over then yes.
Will it just be you in this venture or your wife and family? Doing it solo you will be away from your family too much. Lets be brutally honest here OK? We all know the drill you work you work you work and you are usually too tired when your are not working to do anything else.
Consider buying an existing business.
I am not trying to discourage you there is nothing more relevant than pursuing your passion and NOT working a dead end job. All I am saying is be smart about it and really count the cost not just for yourself but also for your family.


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

Nicko said:


> @ChefBillyB While I do agree with you that you should pursue your passions and not work a dead end job. However, I feel it is a different story when you have a family. One big factor I want to point out here it is different losing a lot of money in your twenties and thirties as opposed to your fifties. My Dad who was a very successful business man once told me that is it is different to lose $20k, $50K, $100K when you are in your twenties and thirties than later in life. When you lose the money early on you have the time and energy to make it back. Later in life it is just much harder. You are older you have more demands your body doesn't work the way it did 10-20 years ago. I feel it is important to understand that when making this decisions.
> 
> Here is what I would say.to @Planethoff
> 
> ...


Great point Nicko! I totally agree.......I drive by a small hole in the wall restaurant that changes hands every 4 to 6 months. I see these people going into this place chasing their dreams. If people only knew how hard it is to be successful in the restaurant business. Take this up a few steps to a 400K, 600K or more investment and it takes it to a different level of "I have to make it work" Or I've lost everything. You are so right when you say how it is easier to regroup a loss in your 20's and 30's when it could be a devastating loss to later years of saving and retirement. This is a good post for anyone who wants to venture out and open their own business.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

I haven't had input on this topic because I feel I'm bias.

@Planethoff, you mentioned loan. Forget about a public lender, period. Banks, credit unions, etc. For anything food related, the only collateral they will accept is something completely liquid.

My be a very short term CD for 125% of the loan.

I guess what I'm trying to say, 'and someone may have already said it' if you left the biz in 2006 and are contemplating reentering in 2016, expect a whole new ball game. Especially financially.

Due diligence is your greatest tool now. Since 2008, the game became much harder. Currently with the introduction of millennial customers into the industry, there's a new twist.

Basic business in general has changed. I completely understand your logic in reference to not living out of the register for the first year. Now the aggregate expenses are not only very high but also labor intensive for an owner. I spend 20% of my time working free for the Fed & State government,calculating, collecting taxes, paying them, etc. I'm not sure if you experienced this before, but you now have to shop for everything outside the box. Utilities, communications, etc.

Anyway, just my 2 cents on what you may find jumping back in. Like I said, I'm bias, I have three up and going and just jumped into # 4 two weeks ago.

Best of luck to you,

pan

PS Since traditional funding may not be available, I wouldn't put all that effort we used to with a Pro Forma, Business Plan,Concept, etc. It's survival, today's business requires flexibility. If you

open a burger joint and all your customers are asking for hot dogs, you better change that sign to survive.


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

Lots of good points brought up.  I agree that no investors is the best option. Should you decide to go that route however, most problems can be written in contract. As in making sure the Silent Partners stay silent. Arrivals can be managed ahead of time and investors pay like everyone else if that is what everyone agrees with. 

     I will suggest not doing it without full ownership of building and property. If it is a small 40 seat place, that should be manageable.  Along with lack of capital, etc. a big problem I hear about quite often is lease/landlord issues, whether it is over maintenance of property or the landlord raising rent.

     To me, ownership of the property also signifies a  more serious commitment on your part. I listen too often to people saying they will sign a lease for X amount of time and then "We'll see what happens" which I translate into "I don't know if I'll be as committed a year or two from now when the lease is up and I want the option to quit."
While you may be responsible for all issues building related as the owner, you are also the sole decision maker and sole beneficiary of any increase in property or business values.


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## planethoff (Apr 25, 2011)

Wow. So much to process. Thanks Everyone. This forum is really helping me more than you all can imagine. I am still leaning more toward the go path, but have to answer some pretty tough questions before I proceed.

@Nicko - Thank you for the sound advice. Your words speak volumes about the most important thing. Aside from a mortgage and car loan, I am debt free. I have a good set up for retirement. My wife is kinda hanging on my retirement, but that is ok. All of that is away and untouchable for now. The debt I was speaking of would be taking equity from my home. I know it will be very demanding and my body is not what it used to be. It is definitely a concern, but at this point, I truly believe I can hang. I don't want to take over existing as I want to build MY concept. Completely changing an existing concept is not usually a good idea.

@ChefBillyB - Thanks for the kind words, sir. I feel you get what I'm feeling and I appreciate the vote of confidence.

@foodpump - I understand your point, but I am fortunate enough to still have a large handle on the local industry. I still know most of my vendors pretty well. I have great hookup to great meat, seafood, and produce. Also have major IN with alcohol distributors. Know a lot of local owners and managers and have more staff than I could possibly need that would jump at the chance to work for me again. (Since it has been so long, it might be their kids I recruit) I was very demanding but fair at all the places I ran in the past. Restaurants ran like oiled machine and everybody made money. When I dine in the establishments where I used to work, regular customers will approach me and beg me to come back to work there. I'm not bragging, or exaggerating. Busy restaurant = staff too busy to complain or create drama.

@panini- Thank you for the rock solid advice. You obviously know what you are doing. I am ready for all the paperwork and have handled most of it before to some extent, but not especially looking forward to it. Like I said to Nicko, I will be tapping into the equity of my home and using what savings I have to make sure I can start it up and live without income for a year. On the flexibility part, you are on point. I am young at heart and in touch with millennials. My good friend has a chain going of a basically no menu fast casual. He has all the ingredients he has on hand on the board and you make up whatever you want. Going very well actually. I thought about franchise from him, but want to do my own thing.

@chefwriter - I am still on the fence for investors, but mostly on the no side. Like you mentioned with well drawn up contract, but it can still get ugly. The advice to buy vs lease is a great point. I was looking to lease, but you make a good point. What I know about landlords in FL is pretty bad stuff.

Anyway Thanks again all and on to continuing the adventure.


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## nicko (Oct 5, 2001)

Well then sir I say go for it 

Please keep us posted about your progress and how things go


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## planethoff (Apr 25, 2011)

Nicko said:


> Well then sir I say go for it
> 
> Please keep us posted about your progress and how things go


Thanks Nicko. It is obviously still not guaranteed that it will come to fruition, but I feel really good about it. I had several opportunities in the past to go on my own, but I'm glad I didn't. I wasn't ready. I really feel I am now. I know it won't be easy, but I will be prepared. I plan to use this thread to document my journey. You will see it all as it develops.


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## someday (Aug 15, 2003)

Planethoff said:


> The debt I was speaking of would be taking equity from my home.


Noooooo. Why, if you are set up for retirement, have a cushy job, etc, would you ever sink money into the probably failure/money pit of the restaurant business? Would your outlet not be better served just hosting large dinner parties for your friends, going out to eat, etc? I feel like you may be romanticizing the business and forgetting all the B/S/T that go into it. You're gonna have to LIVE at your new place for like a year, and that is after it is open. Forget all the headaches and stuff just leading up to opening the doors.

If your main goal is to cook what you want, feed people, and spend time with your family you should just host parties and whatnot on the weekends.

Or jeez, buy a food truck or something. Relatively low startup cost, you can cook what you want, and if it goes under not much harm done, mostly.


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## morning glory (May 28, 2015)

Well what do I know? I absolutely love cooking. I think about it day and night and I often cook four or five different versions of a recipe in a day, just to experiment. I'm continually working on ideas for new recipes. I'm obsessive about it!

But... and its a_ huge_ but, I know I couldn't stand the business side of it: the hours, the budgeting, the managing of staff - the fact that it can end up being logistics rather than creativity. However, you have worked as a professional before @Planethoff, so you know what you are letting yourself in for. If you have the passion, I'd say you should go for it.

But have an escape plan in place, just in case./img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

O.k., couple of things and then I'll leave it alone.

1)What caused you to leave the hosp. biz, and look and find a "cake job"?

2)Your wife, did you meet her while BOTH of you were working in the hosp. biz?

3)What plans will you have in place if you are injured/ill for more than say, two months?


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## planethoff (Apr 25, 2011)

foodpump said:


> O.k., couple of things and then I'll leave it alone.
> 
> 1)What caused you to leave the hosp. biz, and look and find a "cake job"?
> 
> ...


Great questions all. And that is why I haven't made the move thus far. 
1) I had a small venue catering/personal chef business that crashed with the economy in 08. I was able to find great work in the tech industry and it is what I needed to do to keep afloat.

2) my wife is beyond 100% on me doing it, but she is not restaurant experienced. She knows the industry. We met when I was running a place on Union St San Francisco. She will be great owner/partner

3) that is real. And great point. I will defer to having a great staff that I already know. I have people. Unless I relocate to start something. Which is also a possibility


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## planethoff (Apr 25, 2011)

foodpump said:


> O.k., couple of things and then I'll leave it alone.
> 
> 1)What caused you to leave the hosp. biz, and look and find a "cake job"?
> 
> ...


You are totally right. I am a complete idiot for wanting to pursue this course of action. Yet, somehow, I still want to do it. What gives?


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

I'll jump back in here. 

    What happens if…..? 

You are going in with your eyes wide open. You know what you're getting into. You are asking for advice rather than go in unknowing. You are planning ahead as much as you can. 

So what happens if….? 

What happens is you deal with it. 

     In the business I was an owner in, we (my partners and I) didn't plan as much as we should have. My partners were considered "too old" when we started. We didn't make many decisions correctly. We didn't face up to issues we should have when it would have made a difference. We made a ton of mistakes. 

     What we did do was work extremely hard to make the business a success.  When faced with a new challenge, we dealt with it. When faced with our mistakes, we acknowledged them, made the necessary corrections when possible and moved on. We got up every day ready to face whatever happened.  We argued vehemently. We irritated the crap out of each other. But we never quit. We never said "I can't". 

In the end, we had tremendous success and had a great time for many years.  I wouldn't trade those years for anything. Hindsight tells me I would do some things differently but that is always the result of hindsight. 

    So I would advise you to get a good accountant. Listen to him/her. Get a sales tax account. Be ready for getting to know the IRS, the Health Department and the folks at  City Hall.  Make sure your wife has all your passwords and keys. 

     There are many things you can do before hand to make your success more certain. And remaining open to new ideas after you get started is vitally important too. Keep talking to others and learning new things, even after you open the doors.

     I guarantee it will not be smooth sailing no matter how much you plan. Equipment will break. Your wife will not be happy with you on many occasions. Employees will quit. You may have a health problem or three. Your menu may need major adjustment because you made some bad choices.You may not be happy with your wife on many occasions.  All of that and more can go wrong. At the end of the day, say goodnight and start fresh in the morning. 

     But maybe you will have some really, really good days. Maybe you will develop products you can produce and sell retail. Maybe you'll expand and double your business. Maybe some one will like your business so much they will buy you out. Maybe you'll do it for X years and then sell. Maybe you'll never sell. 

      Should you do it? I don't know. Only you do. Flip a coin. Heads yes, tails no. Which one are you hoping for? Which will you regret more?  

If this is what you want to do, then do it and don't look back.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Planethoff said:


> You are totally right. I am a complete idiot for wanting to pursue this course of action. Yet, somehow, I still want to do it. What gives?





> Logic is no answer to passion


When I opened my restaurant, in a lot of ways it flew totally in the face of logic. I feel sorry for people that never realize their muse; or if they do, fail to summon the courage to act upon it


> "You must give everything to make your life as beautiful as the dreams that dance in your imagination."


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

Planethoff said:


> You are totally right. I am a complete idiot for wanting to pursue this course of action. Yet, somehow, I still want to do it. What gives?


I have always taken the path less traveled. My wife always says "Why can't we just once" do what everyone else is doing. When I asked my wife if I should start my own business at 47 years old. Her answer was "NO" as in No freaking way. When I say I take the path less traveled, I don't mean it's the path of least resistance. It's just a different view on life than everyone else is seeing. The reason I was successful in my business was because I saw things different. People liked what I did, I loved what I was doing, we all won. I believe that we should not live the life we are dealt but we should live the life we want. There are only two things that should keep us from realizing and accomplishing our dreams. One being illness, the other being in jail. Otherwise this is your life, when you say "I still want to do it" then do it! Now, that being said you have a few factors to take into account. You need to "FAIL SAFE" your family. walk into this adventure knowing that if it fails your not going to be homeless and living in a tent by the railroad tracks. Get a business plan and look at that business plan and see if the numbers work. Build this business as in, how can I make a good living and accomplish my goals. There is a lot of thinking you need to do to make sure you realize and understand if this is feasible. What is it you have to offer to this business that will make it successful. I don't think this business has to be a 7 days a week 16 hour a day business if it's planned properly. The "I still want to do it" comes from passion that you miss from a different time in your life. The feeling you got when you were really good at what you did. The "cake" job you have now isn't fulfilling your needs in life. Being successful isn't about the Chamber of Commerce Achievement Award that is on your office wall. It's about the feeling you have in your heart and mind when you achieve what you set out to do each and everyday. After reading all of these posts I would look into investors. Get that business plan going and see how much money can be raised. Build your business around that amount of money. In my life I would rather work a job that I was realizing and accomplishing my dreams at 50K a year than working at a "Cake" job at 100K that gave me nothing.


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## greyeaglem (Apr 17, 2006)

I just thought of one more thing. I am thinking of a town where my cousins live and how they told me a few years back that it was a pity I didn't live there as there were three people who were retiring and wanting to sell their restaurants with no takers. Maybe you can look around for an opportunity like that? If nothing else, you may be able to lease the place with an option to buy, and it it doesn't work out, you're not our all that much. Some owners will cut you a break just because they'd like to see what they built continue on.


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## planethoff (Apr 25, 2011)

ChefBillyB said:


> I have always taken the path less traveled. My wife always says "Why can't we just once" do what everyone else is doing. When I asked my wife if I should start my own business at 47 years old. Her answer was "NO" as in No freaking way. When I say I take the path less traveled, I don't mean it's the path of least resistance. It's just a different view on life than everyone else is seeing. The reason I was successful in my business was because I saw things different. People liked what I did, I loved what I was doing, we all won. I believe that we should not live the life we are dealt but we should live the life we want. There are only two things that should keep us from realizing and accomplishing our dreams. One being illness, the other being in jail. Otherwise this is your life, when you say "I still want to do it" then do it! Now, that being said you have a few factors to take into account. You need to "FAIL SAFE" your family. walk into this adventure knowing that if it fails your not going to be homeless and living in a tent by the railroad tracks. Get a business plan and look at that business plan and see if the numbers work. Build this business as in, how can I make a good living and accomplish my goals. There is a lot of thinking you need to do to make sure you realize and understand if this is feasible. What is it you have to offer to this business that will make it successful. I don't think this business has to be a 7 days a week 16 hour a day business if it's planned properly. The "I still want to do it" comes from passion that you miss from a different time in your life. The feeling you got when you were really good at what you did. The "cake" job you have now isn't fulfilling your needs in life. Being successful isn't about the Chamber of Commerce Achievement Award that is on your office wall. It's about the feeling you have in your heart and mind when you achieve what you set out to do each and everyday. After reading all of these posts I would look into investors. Get that business plan going and see how much money can be raised. Build your business around that amount of money. In my life I would rather work a job that I was realizing and accomplishing my dreams at 50K a year than working at a "Cake" job at 100K that gave me nothing.


Thanks. I really appreciate your take. Everything you said resonates very strongly with me. I too travel the path less traveled and it Is never the easiest. This is what I Was born to do.


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## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

@Planethoff,

When it comes to business, I try very hard to refrain from impulsiveness. I apologise if my post was somewhat negative. The loan remark was impulsive.

It's apparent to me, after reading your responses, you have the skills and knowhow to reenter the market. Personally, I would take heed to what is being posted form persons

with actual knowledge of ownership.

I guess I just went into a precautionary mode. The priorities of my ownership have become somewhat convoluted. For me, quality, consistency, logististics,etc. are still a priority but the financial aspect has surfaced and is now on top. I don't make decisions based on money. I feel it's just as important to have a financial concept as well as a business concept.

When I mentioned flexibility, I really wasn't speaking of menu, concept, etc. but also financial overview.

I knew I was going to be in business since the 8th grade when i caught a subway and a bus to a private golf course in the Burbs. on weekends. Spent the day in the woods next to the course finding golf balls and selling them back to members.

I had so many business questions back in the day. I received a business degree which I viewed as useless. It didn't address my questions. I entered the industry, did time in Europe,US and eventually went back to school for an MBA. I also found this education did not meet my needs.

Like yourself, I learned from my mentors in the trenches. When i was getting my first business off the ground, the concept was to be very anal in documenting everything and build the business for acquisition. When you sold, that was your payday for all your hard work. Sorry, long to get to the flexible thing. After 2008 I switched my financial concept to adapt. There was no one with enough cash to buy me and I wasn't going to play banker. Since then our concept is focus on longevity. My motto to all was, please try to work yourself out of your job. Keep bringing up people from within. We're now to the point where myself and a couple others to leave the business but still receive checks. We've been in the same location for 18 yrs. and I just signed a new lease for 10 with a 5 opt.

So far it's working well. Two of my last three ventures were start ups in a completely area. Trying to diversify. One was an investment into waste management and has shown incredible growth over the last 4 yrs.

Planethoff, you'll do it, you'll be successful, and like Billy says, you can find great happiness in owning a business that just pays the bills. It's all relative.

I carry this with me when I'm taking the next leap into the fire. I pull it out and read it whenever I find myself trying to validate my intentions.

"But the thought of being a lunatic did not greatly trouble him; the horror was that he might also be wrong. " 
― *George Orwell*, *1984*


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## planethoff (Apr 25, 2011)

@panini - Thanks Pan. No need to apologize. I appreciate your comments. I actually like the negativity as I know how many restaurants fail and I want to try to account for every possible curve ball that will come at me. I know I won't be able to predict them all, but I don't want to be taken down by something that I could have easily planned for. This is going to be a long process, I'm not taking it lightly, I'm not rushing anything, and I will dot all my T's and cross all my I's while triple checking everything


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## planethoff (Apr 25, 2011)

Update: I have not given up on the idea, but have been taking my sweet time waiting for the perfect opportunity. I know in reality that the perfect opportunity doesn’t really exist, but this is close.

I found a well established running profitable restaurant in the middle of nowhere at the entrance to a National Forest next to the only supply store in miles. The area is well known for fishing, hunting, boating, hiking, and camping. The lot is connected to the area’s main boat ramp.

The Owners are a couple that want to retire. Price is very reasonable. Wife would stay on as bartender for as long as I would like for transition.

As if that deal isn’t sweet enough. There is a house for sale within walking distance that is on the lake with 12 acres and 6 rentable lakeside cabins.

I could run restaurant and my wife could run rental cabins.

The only downsides I see are: 1) having to pretty much keep existing menu in place to appease customer base. I feel I could immediately efficientize and ensure top product quality, but keep same offerings and not alter recipes too much. 2) It is literally in the middle of nowhere. Not only will I have to get used to that, I will have to reconfigure my game plan as I’m sure deliveries will not be at the frequency I am accustomed to.

At this point, I am going to spend a week up there working with the owners and see how it goes. 

Funny part is, I’m not nervous at all.


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## chefwriter (Oct 31, 2012)

First, congratulations. Best of luck in your new venture. This sounds like a great place. As for the rest of it. I would check with state regs on what your sources are. Check carefully and read the fine print. I say this because you state the place is known for fishing, hunting. So... can those fishers and hunters supply you with anything? If you can't use their catch for the general public, can you cook what they catch just for them? There would be some kind of fee/charge for doing it but that cuts down on your inventory and creates a lot of good will. 
Are there any local products you could forage for? Here in NYS, the regs allow for that if you pick it yourself and only serve it in house. That way they can track the source if there is any sickness. I imagine it wouldn't be much different in your area.
I would also be ready for the opportunity to change the menu. Get a feel for the clientele and listen to them talk. Are they really happy with the entire menu or was the menu the owner's idea? Are there products they would like to see?
I can say from experience that customers will enjoy new, creative items if they are done well and affordable. Most places go the safe route without any effort at being unique in any way and miss out on a lot of opportunity. Just for your own knowledge, was everything cooked the best it could be or is there room for improvement in what is currently offered? Is the clientele really against any changes or just worried that the execution won't be good based on what they have experienced so far under the current owners
In short, I'm telling you to make the place your own once you get in and the owners are out. I wouldn't discuss your ideas with the owners. If they thought it was a good idea, they would have done it. Take the risk to do what you think is needed. If it doesn't work out, go on to the next idea. 
Anyway, hope you do well.


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## phaedrus (Dec 23, 2004)

Sounds perfect to me! Please update us if you do go for it!


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## PoorlyChef (May 30, 2019)

The controlled chaos of the restaurant biz gets into your blood and it doesn't leave very easily..


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## ShelteredBugg1 (May 1, 2019)

My question is, when do you know you are ready to open your own operation ? How can you recognize you're potential and value?


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

When you’re able to get a loan......


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## ShelteredBugg1 (May 1, 2019)

Oh shit so that is the only incentive?


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## planethoff (Apr 25, 2011)

The long process has begun. Thanks everyone for the encouragement. I probably won't have another update until October or so, but I will check back in with the details.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

If i ain't being too nosy, where is up there located?


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## planethoff (Apr 25, 2011)

cheflayne said:


> If i ain't being too nosy, where is up there located?


I mean no offense, but I can't share location yet. I'm probably just paranoid, but Better safe than sorry.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

planethoff said:


> I mean no offense, but I can't share location yet. I'm probably just paranoid, but Better safe than sorry.


No offense taken, fully understand.


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## hookedcook (Feb 8, 2015)

Great topic, what are you missing in your life of having a good stable job and wanting to go on your own? If you have your heart on it and seem set, do it. It can go 2 ways, you work 80-90+ hours a week stressed out how to pay employees, vendors, rent and everything in between and will make less money, if any than you make now on a proper paying job. Or you can be fed up, and have a great idea of the business. You could open your place and it could be a hit and make money till the next place opens. The odds and reality are against you put a alot of successful people have doubters. Your money, your business your choice. As for me I work for others peoples dollars and always have a paycheck and never in my mind would think of a bank holding where I live based on how many meals I sell


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## chefbillyb (Feb 8, 2009)

ShelteredBugg1 said:


> My question is, when do you know you are ready to open your own operation ? How can you recognize you're potential and value?


When you have all the answers to all the questions. When you're ready you'll know it. It took me working in many kinds of operations to feel like I was ready.


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