# pot roast left out overnight - safe to reheat and eat?



## bscepter (Apr 6, 2010)

so we were following a suggestion by alton brown that you make a pot roast the night before, let it cool, and reheat it for dinner the next day. the thought being that heating, cooling, and then reheating the meat makes the connective tissue break down better and leads to a better tasting, more tender roast.

so, after cooking the roast in my enameled dutch oven with guinness and veal stock (along with assorted veg), i left it on the stove top to cool so it could be refrigerated. obviously an iron dutch oven takes a while to cool. and, sure enough, i forgot about the bloody thing and went to bed.

this morning, i put the whole thing in the fridge. so that was about 10 hours out of the oven (7 or 8 hours at 140 degrees or below, i'd guess).

it smells fine (good, actually). i realize that reheating it will kill bacteria but not certain toxins that may have been left by the bacteria.

i would be curious as to any advice regarding the safety of this meal.


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

so sorry, wish i had better news, but sadly i think you gotta feed it to the gargae disposal, not your family. you may not get sick, but then again you may. if you don't get sick, it's only because you lucked out somehow. as you probably know you need to keep food hot(140+) or cold(- 40)...anything in between is spawning ground for some very nasty things( you've got about 2 hours mol before you need to do something).....in the future i would not wait for the pot to cool down(especially a cast iron or enameled one). take the stew out of the pot, put into smaller containers and refrigerate uncovered. sticking a metal spoon(large) or whisk can help bring the temp down faster and stirring every so often helps as well, if you are in a time crunch. leave the spoon or whisk in the stew overnight in the fridge.....bottom line as you now well know is that you should have made it earlier in the day...

joey


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## rekonball (Sep 13, 2011)

bscepter said:


> so we were following a suggestion by alton brown that you make a pot roast the night before, let it cool, and reheat it for dinner the next day. the thought being that heating, cooling, and then reheating the meat makes the connective tissue break down better and leads to a better tasting, more tender roast.
> 
> so, after cooking the roast in my enameled dutch oven with guinness and veal stock (along with assorted veg), i left it on the stove top to cool so it could be refrigerated. obviously an iron dutch oven takes a while to cool. and, sure enough, i forgot about the bloody thing and went to bed.
> 
> ...


 I've done this so many times I cant count, to think that a pro chef would forget to put something in the fridge. I can only tell you what I did though. I didn't have the heart to through it out and I really hate to waste food. I reheated it to 350 for about an hour. The reason is that your body is used to your particular habits of eating, that is why most poeple get sick in retaraunts because they have strict foodservice habits, I will say that most of the sickness is from chemical sickness because they use chemicals that the average person can't get.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

_*When in doubt, throw it out!*_

Further, no amount of reheating will make food wholesome which has been rendered dangerous by any number of bacteria. I understand the reasoning, but it's wrong as a matter of science and culinary technique.

*THROW IT OUT!!!*

BDL


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

Rekonball said:


> I've done this so many times I cant count, to think that a pro chef would forget to put something in the fridge.


actually, that a pro chefs thinking that reheating food left out was okay in the first place is even more amazing......i can only hope that you didn't serve it to customers....shame on you chef.... i also disagree that most food borne illnesses are from chemicals.....most come from bacteria...salmonella, listeria, staph and e. coli are just a few that come to mind...just one of the reasons why they are called food borne illnesses....

joey


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Maybe BDL and I are from old school but I would not serve it and I know he wouldn't either. Hot out at room temp over 4 hours then chilling it hours later? You are looking fro trouble. and you may get it...........again  "IF IN DOUBT<THROW IT OUT""


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## cacioepepe (Apr 3, 2011)

Do you throw out milk on the expiration date, every time?  Probably not.  Ever go to a hole in the wall Indian or Mexican joint and order the cabeza or tongue?  I do.  If we all adhered to the rules of the health department and what we "should do" we'd never have any fun with food.  In California the DOH has lowered the temperature danger zone from 145 F to 140F.  Is it only now that the 5 degrees makes a difference to our health?  I say go ahead and eat it up.  People these days often freak out about this kind of stuff, but I personally don't.  Perhaps its the fact that I've only been sick from eating bad food maybe once or twice in my 30 years of living and 12 years of cooking.  I'll eat nearly anything.  Perhaps the other members of this site think I'm asking for trouble and am ethically wrong, but in an at home situation, I'd give it a try.  I would definitely NOT serve in my restaurant, but at home, why not.  

My only advice is to not keep anything that has been reheated.  Say you reheat half of the roast and only eat half of that, throw the reheated half out.


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## foodnfoto (Jan 1, 2001)

Please let me know where you work Cacio & Rekenball.

I'll make sure to never,ever eat there.


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## djoko verona (Jul 26, 2012)

Cacioepepe you are "amazing"
family or customer or myself is completely same ... If its not god for me is not good for anybody ... 
If in doubt throw it out like chefdb say ... Don't take the risk of killing somebody ...


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## cacioepepe (Apr 3, 2011)

cacioEpepe said:


> I would definitely NOT serve in my restaurant, but at home, why not.


You should read my post all the way through before making yours.


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## cacioepepe (Apr 3, 2011)

Djoko Verona said:


> Cacioepepe you are "amazing"
> family or customer or myself is completely same ... If its not god for me is not good for anybody ...
> If in doubt throw it out like chefdb say ... Don't take the risk of killing somebody ...


Killing somebody? Really? Because that's happened often. If you folks would read my post my explanation is that I've probably eaten things that I shouldn't have and, I'm still, gasp, alive! I would take the hhhuuuggee risk of eating some roast. Would I do that at my work? Like I've stated twice, no, I wouldn't. I guess ya'll think I'm stupid, and I think yall could get over this irrational fear.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

Psst! I believe you will find the California HHS (not DOH) has lowered the holding temperature to 135°F


cacioEpepe said:


> ... In California the DOH has lowered the temperature danger zone from 145 F to 140F. ..


However, the four hour rule, and in special cases the six hour rule, are still in effect for PHF!


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

I READ YOUR POST ! 

     And if you want to eat it, thats your choice or problem , but to feed it to your family or home thats another story.. You did not get sick  THIS TIME however its like playing Russian Roulette sometime you lose.

Children and older adults in the home or outside ar particulary affected by Salmonella and Toxins which are found in spoiled food do to no proper refrigeration and partly do to the fact that their systems are weaker then healthy adults. He is talking way more then the 4 hour rule out of fridge, your talking 7 or 8  if  read his post. 

  And no I do not throw out milk at the experation date because it has been held at proper temps, plus experation date is only meant in 98% of states to mean  it is last day for retail sale not consumption. So understand health and consummer laws before making a statement.


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## chefross (May 5, 2010)

I remember being invited to a Canadian Thanksgiving dinner and after dinner the food that didn't fit in the fridge was wrapped up and left on the kitchen table all night.

I watched family picking from the platters on the counter the next morning and thought how wrong it was.

They, of course, had been doing this way for many many years.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

OK Chef ,  But it was their choice and not someone elses. And was not pawned off on some unsuspecting person.


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## ordo (Mar 19, 2009)

Original _pot-au-feu_, was simmered for days and days while new stuff, meat, leftovers, veggies, etc. were added to the pot.

There's also a spiced Chinese master sauce, called _Lu Shui_ or _Lo Shui_ that lasts a long time, sometimes years and passes from one generation to the next. You braise something there, beef, pork, duck, chicken, etc.,(except fish) then you add some water, soy sauce, spices, let it boil 10' and save. A layer of grease usually protects the dark sauce. Also in many Asian cultures, commercial broths are kept years for enhanced flavors, but always simmering.

I've done the 6 hours beef stew, reheating the next day. Much better next day! I just let it cool down, let's say, one hour and there it goes to the fridge.

I wonder how is it possible people were not poisoned in the old times, but of course if you're running a restaurant, well that's a different matter of concern.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

ordo said:


> Original _pot-au-feu_, was simmered for days and days while new stuff, meat, leftovers, veggies, etc. were added to the pot.


Simmering temperature is not in the danger zone. That's also why restaurant hold sauces in bain maries at temps above the danger zone. 


ordo said:


> I wonder how is it possible people were not poisoned in the old times


Actually people got food poising quite a lot in old times... but also I believe their stomachs were probably more equipped to handle it as we are now.


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## petemccracken (Sep 18, 2008)

ordo said:


> ...I wonder how is it possible people were not poisoned in the old times,...


Probably because they died???/img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif


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## maryb (Mar 21, 2008)

My friends leave food out all the time. I won't eat leftovers over there /img/vbsmilies/smilies/confused.gif (we need a barf icon!)


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

brings to mind the famous duck confit of yore.... as a way to preserve and because there was no refrigeration it was left sitting in the duck fat it was cooked in......for how long? days? weeks?....guess they didn't have them or chose not to pay attention to temperatures ...maybe that's just one more reason why the wealthy had tasters...they were expendable!

joey


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Back in the early and mid 1900s  .If someone died in the neigborhood, it was usually said "They died of old age" I remember if someone died of TB, the fire dept came and sealed the apartment and lit sulphur candles that they said  killed the residue germs.

     Modern medicine and science finally figured out that this was no so. They died of  a specific ailment  , like cancer or heart disease,etc.  but we did not know then. Today we do. 

     Many people had food poisoning but thought it only a bad stomach or something else.'' We have come a long way baby ''as the commercial used to say.


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## eastshores (Oct 23, 2008)

I think that in terms of food, it is better to be safe than sorry. However, our immune system is also an adaptive system. Without any exposure to such bacteria we are likely susceptible to very small amounts for infection. This is true of viruses as well with there being some exceptions (HIV). I'm not saying we should intentionally acquire resistance through exposure, but I am saying that there is truth to that principal and sometimes people over react and cause more harm than good .. such as use of anti-bacterial soaps on a daily basis.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Why wait hours for a cooking vessel to cool down enough to stick it in the fridge?

That's what bowls are for.


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

bscepter,

it's been 2 days now sooo what did you do? 

my money's on you ate it......tsk tsk

hope you're all okay

maybe not enough time has passed after you ate it...i think its something like 12 to 72 hours after ingesting that symptoms appear

joey


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

MaryB said:


> My friends leave food out all the time. I won't eat leftovers over there /img/vbsmilies/smilies/confused.gif (we need a barf icon!)


My wife tends to do the same thing. Some say that most marriages break up over money or infidelity. In our case the only reason we would break up is over food hygiene. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/thumb.gif


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## itsonlystuffing (Sep 25, 2012)

Was there a tight lid on the pot? Once you have cooked away the internal bacteria, unless you have Typhoid or something in your house I doubt you would have life threatening organisms in the air that would attack your meat. Especially if you used a tight lid.Not so in a restaurant, being a public place. No wonder many of you squeamish posters would get sick and die from a bug bite , you have probably grew up in a sterile bubble and have no immune system. Haven't you ever shared food with another person or drank from the same bottle? Ever go camping and ate the fish you caught, or drank bug juice at camp? You probably make your toddler wear a helmet on Playschool toys so he/she won't die of carpet burn infections when they fall 8 inches to that filthy floor. Unbelievable. I would eat that meat -- all of it if I cooked it.


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

boy are you ever off base *itsonlytstuffing*....organisms in the air attacking your meat...... are you kidding? using a tight fitting lid....are you kidding? that's not how food borne illnesses happen..../img/vbsmilies/smilies/confused.gif

joey


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## lagom (Sep 5, 2012)

Have you  heard of Chi Chi's?  People do die of food poisioning. Treating food  seriously for professionals is the most important thing we can do, people trust us to serve them safe food, and it our duty to do just that.Crap like not cooling properly, holding hot food at improper  temps, bad sanitation, 3second rules, and screwing around with peoples food is what has keep us professional chefs at the bottom of the social barrel until recently for a long time. At home we and home cooks should be just a cafeful as to not posion their families or themselvs.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Be it home or food service facility you handle food sanitation same way.. If you want to eat that crap then you eat it, Its your health and body. Why not put a lid on everything so it kills the bacteria? ARE YOU FOR REAL OR WHAT? and no one said life threatening just SICK.

Oh sorry I see it's only your first post..


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

thought i'd share a few not so fun foodborne illness facts...from a servsafe food sanitation manual and cdc website

*listerosis:* in pregnant women this foodborne illness can cause miscarriage,a stillborn child, retardation, meningitis, and death in newborns. high fatality rate in the immuno compromised

*e.coli: *in children can lead to a disorder that cause the kidneys and other organs to stop working.

*botulism: *it attacks the nervous system. can cause vertigo, double vision, the inability to swallow and respiratory paralysis. can last a year.

*shigella: *also called bacillary dysentary. need i say more?

*salmonellosis: *each year 48 million people in the U.S experience this foodborne illness. 3,000 die.

so, where is all this leading? once again, *when in doubt, throw it out!*......

joey


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## garth beaumont (Jun 7, 2012)

Better safe than sorry ~


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## rekonball (Sep 13, 2011)

foodnfoto said:


> Please let me know where you work Cacio & Rekenball.
> 
> I'll make sure to never,ever eat there.


 If you read closely you would have read about what I personally did. I never said for this person to eat rotten meat, I know what my bodies immune system is capable of, and have never been sick by my actions and of course this was in my own kitchen. I voted not to serve the lobster bisque at work, also one of the reasons we have wonderfull sauces today is to cover up rotten meat, pre refridgeration days You all are way too uptight and I wouldn't have shared my story if I puked up my stomach. I'll make sure to never, ever serve you OK. I would like to know if the food was eaten or not.


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## cacioepepe (Apr 3, 2011)

This is a great thread, and because of it I've taken a survey of my staff and of the cooks that I've worked with in the past.  These are legit cooks who have worked in legit restaurants all over.  I have to disclaim this because its obvious that my 'credibility' on this site has been compromised. Everyone probably thinks I work with a bunch of hacks who bring their mise en place into the bathroom and wash it in the toilet.  On the contrary, I'm confident enough to say that I've probably worked in cleaner, tighter, more disciplined restaurants than most.  The fact that my opinion stated, god forbid, I would eat something that didn't comply with the US health standard, has made such waves really makes me laugh.   I would say that about 85% of the people I've presented this situation to would be fine with eating this legendary pot roast.  Granted, yes, there is the factor of common sense, which I did not mention (my bad).  If it was bubbling, sour, smelled bad or had mold on it it, by all mean, toss it.  But if the integrity of the roast is still intact, I dont think its out of the question.  A risk?  Of course...but we do that by going out to eat anyway.  I also understand the idea of being overprotective of a bscepter, who is 'only' a home cook, and hell, he probably doesnt know any better anyways.  I also understand that as professionals we have to convey that everything done behind closed kitchen doors is without question, questionable.  I understand putting on that holier than thou face in the presence of 'civilians', but damn, I'm just saying I eat the friggin roast!


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

DURANGOJO

All of the above conditions you listed  are real

It should also be noted that senior citizens as well as children are in high risk brackets as well as any one with a weakeened immune system from past illnesses. IE  Viral infection, Mersa etc.. So again any of you, please  don't tell all the people on this site (in particular students)  how wonderful you were because you served or ate something that  was left out or compromised.

YOUR FLIRTING WITH DISASTER>


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## eastshores (Oct 23, 2008)

Redacted /img/vbsmilies/smilies/bounce.gif


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## durangojo (Jul 30, 2007)

cacio,

i don't think anyone here is questioning your credibility nor has it been compromised in any way. we are simply having a discussion with very divided opinions.

i will add this though....the trickster about micro- organisms is that you cannot see them, taste them or smell them. once they are ingested and are in the intestines they multiple like little rabbits as the intestinal tract is the perfect breeding ground.....think of it as an incubator....warm and moist... something else that occurs is on the reheat the stew passes through the danger zone yet again. if the reheat is slow which most times for stew it is, your food and you are at risk once again.....that just can't be worth it. if you have ever had a foodborne illness there would never be a doubt as to what to do. our immune systems are attacked and challenged every day with the air we breathe and the water we drink.....do we really need to challenge it through our food?

joey


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## withanecook (Apr 1, 2015)

I live in a small house in Michigan and keep the temp in my house at about 68 so I know it's not remotely "warm" on my kitchen counters overnight.

If I didn't go to sleep and leave a roast out.  The crockpot was actually cool to touch.  Okay to refrigerate and eat still after re-heating?


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

It's not worth the risk. It can be dangerous even if it smells, looks and tastes fine. It's not just about which bacteria may be growing in it, but their by products which are often dangerous in their own right. 

Toss it.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

I have had "food poisoning" twice (that I am aware of anyway).
Once was a fruit salad with a poppy seed dressing (only dish I ate from a salad potluck at a business meeting) .
It hit me 2 hours into my car ride from San Antonio to my home in Dallas.
Luckily I was not the driver.
The usual 5 hour drive took twice that long because of all the pit stops.

The second was from a to go plate (BBQ chicken) from a family reunion.
I stuck the container in an ice chest where it stayed for the 2 hour drive to my beach house.
My vaca's were few and far between back then and half of that precious time was spent either in bed or the bathroom.
I had a evening ritual .....enjoyed watching the sunset with gin and tonic in hand.
Thank the Lord one of the neighbors noticed my absence and came to check on me.
He carried me to his car and took me to the ER.
After 2 liters of IV fluids and some meds to stop the trips to the bathroom the neighbor brought me home and tucked me in.

The chicken I should have known better to eat.
The salad was a complete surprise.

Since those incidents I have tossed out a lot of food.
Prolly some that was perfectly good.
I don't even bring home uneaten food from restaurants.
Just not worth it.

mimi


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

What I occasionally do and what I advise others to do sometimes differ a bit, sometimes not. 

This  was a cooked meat product, not a stew or Stroganof or parmesana type dish with a low Ph, and it sat

out for what 8 hours? My advice is to look in the mirror, shake a finger at your reflection and say

"You dumb-dumb", AFTER you've tossed the thing in the garbage.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Bacteria likes warm, moist protein which is one reason why humans get sick. We are warm, moist protein. Your call, but to me a roast left out overnight seems like a perfect petri dish of warm, moist protein.


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## french fries (Sep 5, 2008)

cheflayne said:


> Bacteria likes warm, moist protein


... and oxygen.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Clostridium perfringens is anaerobic and one of the most common causes of food poisoning, with beef being one of the common sources.


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

But that's the point, I would imagine this roast was getting plenty of air. Doesn't Clostridium flourish in an airless environment,

say between 70 and 120 degreesF?

Been a while and I dont feel like looking it up. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/redface.gif


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

It survives and even grows just fine in the presence of oxygen but it flourishes and produces the toxins in an environment of little to no air like your gastrointestinal system.


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## eastshores (Oct 23, 2008)

This has been one area where while I can agree with the adage of .. "when in doubt, throw it out" if you know what you are dealing with you can also safely re-heat a product to the point of pasteurization. A stew is a great candidate for this, since it won't likely suffer much from the added high heat application.

The toxin of clostridium botulinum can be destroyed after 10 minutes of boiling the product.

If we want to discuss food safety, then we ought to include the acceptable treatments for foods. It's good to be cautious, but we need to be educated about things as well.


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

@WithaneCook

Danger zone is 40- 140F.

68F is right in the middle of the " zone".

It is Time Sensitive. We are missing the time in your question. When in doubt don't cool food on the counter.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

Going back to the OP of several years ago, he recounted how Alton Brown says a pot roast is better the next day. I have found this to be true of an ordinary stew, but not for a pot roast cooked as one large contiguous piece.  The Wonderous moist gelatinous quality of a properly cooked Pot/chuck roast, the best part of such a dish imo,  is lost the next day out of the fridge in my experience.

As to the bacteria thing, I and many I know leave things out over night, covered of course to protect from vermin, with absolutely no ill effect.  It was quite a common practice some 50 years ago anyway.  Especially if the pot remained covered there is no great risk, contamination will be minimal and bacteria can only multiply so quickly.  The Swans-neck flask experiment is a classic example of this.  Back in the 17 or 1800's (forget which now) it was proven that bacteria contamination was in fact air born and not spontaneously generated by the swans-neck flask experiment, in which a specially constructed but otherwise open-to-air flask held a heat sterilized sample of urine for years with no apparent bacteria growth.  Look it up.

Also considering that there is considerable salt and spices in a typical stew that are the enemy of bacteria, what it comes down to is that the rate at which bacteria accumulate at an ideal temperature is dependent on the initial level of contamination.  The lower the initial level of contamination, the lower the risk over a particular interval of time. 

Rick


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## chefboyog (Oct 23, 2013)

Deleted reply. 

There is too much wrong here to bother. 

Please don't eat potentially dangerous foods people.

Piss test and boiling botulism aside; don't leave food out over night and eat it.


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

50 years ago it was rare to force feed our protein sources (as well as ourselves) antibiotics to the point of creating antibiotic resistant bugs.
These bugs remain in the meat, we consume the meat and there you go....
A potential live grenade has just entered the gut.
Even if you do seek medical attention in a timely manner there is a chance you will die anyway.
Organ systems shutting down, one by one (ever hear of septicemia ?).
Yes this is unlikely to happen but the stats are becoming quite grim with each passing year.

Wanna eat it?
Go ahead...knock yerself out.

mimi


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## meezenplaz (Jan 31, 2012)

cheflayne said:


> It survives and even grows just fine in the presence of oxygen but it flourishes and produces the toxins in an environment of little to no air like your gastrointestinal system.


Well okay, but Clostridium almost always is accompanied by a foul smell when you reheat it. This I do know....from experience.

Doesn't mean it's safe if it DOESN'T smell bad. Just sayin.

I too have left beef out over night, covered, and it's been fine.

But having done it, and recommending it are two different things.


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## genemachine (Sep 26, 2012)

In most cuts of meat, you will find anaerobic pockets anyway - just leaving it open to the air doesn't exactly stop anaerobes. That said, I left roast out overnight myself and it was fine. As Meezenplaz said, still not recommending it.


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## rick alan (Nov 15, 2012)

All right, guilty as charged, you can't help but say I was recommending it.

But mainly I was pointing out  that bacterial accumulation over time is a function of initial contamination and the level of additional exposure.  To put things in perspective, it seems to me you're taking a much bigger chance with a rare-cooked steak, or similarly cooked store bought Hamburg far worse (belly ache very likely), than a covered pot of stew left overnight.

It's obvious some have had a very strong reaction to my words here, but to me there is some irony in this.  I look at the wonderful dishes that get shown around here but then I wonder, "Is this the nutritional content of a typical meal for them?"  There is typically a dearth of raw vegetables, particularly your bitter greens, both very important for strong immune response and overall good health.  Of course these might have just been intentionally left out of the plating.

It was also mentioned that bacteria feed on protein.  But, aside from a limited number of stains known as flesh eating bacteria (which I don't think can be contracted thru eating) in the body bacteria rely on excess carbohydrates, something I also see a lot of in cooking around here.  A mention was made of supergerms, or at least they where alluded to, but at this time it is hospitals and the people who frequent them, not cows, that are harboring these.  I stay away from hospitals, and would certainly think twice about any invasive procedure and where I would have it done.

Due to an undiagnosed digestive issue combined with a period of great physical and emotional stress I came down with an advanced case of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and this before there was even a name for it.  It took a number of years but I am one of the lucky few who got over it.  I attribute this entirely to overall favorably efficacious eating habits.  Not to mention the supplements I take to compensate for typical food production methods that are not conducive to full potentials for nutritional content.  The doctors were certainly no help here for sure.

So given this please excuse me if I come off cavalier about a pot of stew left out over night, I do feel there are other things people should maybe be more concerned about in their eating.

And I still feel a pot roast does not improve by eating it the next day.  ;-)~

Rick


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Ish ok @Rick Alan it is actually pretty rare but there is growing concern re: the increasing presence of these antibiotic resistant superbugs being present in not just the intestines but the muscle tissue as well ( consumed and passed on to humans).

Actually I found a study from the early 1960's so the 50 year comment on my part was false.

TONS of study's with just one search.
Pretty dry med journal reading but very interesting.
What concerned me the most is that current research is starting to prove the issue ( the latest one I skimmed was published in 2011) as awareness (and research funds) increase.
There is most likely more current info out there but it is late and the subject was making me a bit depressed.

mimi


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## eastshores (Oct 23, 2008)

chefboyOG said:


> Please don't eat potentially dangerous foods people.
> 
> Piss test and boiling botulism aside; don't leave food out over night and eat it.


I agree - the idea of leaving meat based food out is stupid. Period. We know the risks associated with it. Is your immune system strong enough to counter it? It's a gamble each and every time if you don't treat the food properly to ensure you've killed all the bad stuffs. You can do that by the way. Why is it we default to just saying NO? An abundance of care is probably not a bad thing but it can be limiting.

The danger in a discussion like this, is that people then do not allow for real understanding of food preservation techniques that actually rely on the spoiling of a product to be effective. Ask yourself, would you eat cabbage that has been left out in room temperature for 3 weeks or more? You probably shouldn't, but with adequate salt it's a popular product and completely safe. I hate that some people are so wary of fermentation. Are there risks? Yes there are. There are risks with eating a medium steak as well. How many of you are going to take a strong stance against cooking beef less than well done?


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

Fermentation is a different animal. In any substrate its not monoculture, there are many species. Whats important is creating an environment that grows what you want and not others. You're using salt, acid, and even populations of known good organisms to keep the bad stuff at bay. Once your lactic acid bacteria and yeast take hold they will limit populations of dangerous stuff in a self regulating way, that's why we have all sorts of ferments on purpose. 

Then there's canning, curing, smoking...


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

We could also talk about the bazillions (y'all ever notice how I just [emoji]10084[/emoji]️ to exaggerate numbers lol) of beasties and yeasties (and invent my own words lol) that happily coexist on the human body?
We are mostly immune to our own ( unless there is an overgrowth) as well as those who share our environment but it only takes shaking the neighbor's hand or touching a shopping basket handle (the drugstore is the most dangerous...all those sick peeps there to pick up Rx) to make us sick.

Of course the very young and the very old are most susceptible with their poor immune systems.
Having been in medicine for over 20 years I can can count on one hand all of the times I had a cold or tummy bug.
My immune system was exposed and my body would just ID the bug, kill it off and if the bug does not mutate for the next exposure I was golden.
Since I have retired I catch every virus the Grand's bring home from school.
The human body is a miraculous machine.

I could go on but I won't....I am a real biology geek lol.

mimi


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## brianshaw (Dec 18, 2010)

Anyone willing to take food safety risks probably never. Had a case of real food poisoning.


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## millionsknives (Apr 25, 2014)

I'm not saying to do any of those things lightly.  There are proper procedures and guidelines for all.  The point was that you will never sterilize everything.  A lot of the magic is in the funk.  Raw milk cheeses, fish sauce, unpasteurized cask ales... 

If you don't follow the guidelines then yeah it can be very dangerous, but that's true of so many things.  I still think raw milk cheese should be legalized.  I hate dead cheeses they sell in the US.


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## mikeswoods (Jun 14, 2013)

I think like Flip Flop Girl---I have had food poisoning twice----and never want to experience it again---

As a pro--I also looked at the risks and the consequences of poorly handled food---

Teaching kitchen staff how to quickly get food from hot to cold took some time---

many believe the old wives tale about letting a pot cool before getting it into the refrigerator.


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