# I hate firing people. (caution, venting ahead)



## rivitman (Jul 23, 2004)

So much that I have yet to do it, I have always corrected the problem somehow, but I feel the time is drawing nigh. Usually people straighten themselves out, or simply get a clue and move on. But not this time.
I have some people under me for whom no deadline is sacred. Whether I impose it, or they impose it upon themselves. On the latter, I will ask:

When?

They respond:

"@ This time". (With a credible facial expression of thoughtful consideration).

They seldom make it.

Worst of all they give me bad info as to their progress towards the finished product. "Half an hour chef". "Almost there Chef". " By xx o'clock? No problem chef"

They MUST mean "you fall for it every time chef".

We are a big place, with a LOT going on, and I am NOT a non-cooking Sous. I have my own tasks to worry about. I don't need crew that I have to baby sit.

Today, I instituted a new rule:

If you give me a time certain for completion, and I buy off on it, and you don't get it done? You give me innaccurate or misleading information as to the status of your work?

YOU LOSE THE REST OF THE SHIFT.
If the task is day long, and you fail to keep your word, you lose the next day.

A too frequent occurance of either scenario, and I start de-schedualing you until you are down to zero hours/week. And when you hit zero, you stay at zero, because you cannot redeem yourself to me if you aren't here right?

Complain about either, and I reccomend to the exec you be terminated immediatly.

It's bad enough they cannot seem to respect the timeline, or choose to be so unaware of the total amount of tasks needed to be done in order for us to maintain. It's another thing to consistently and casually mislead me, and manipulate my rescources. If we were a restaurant and not high volume catering, they would be done by now, I'm sure.

This is not a training issue. Nor a skills issue. This a get it done issue. A lack of focus issue. A poor work habit issue.

_I dunno. Maybe it's a poor management skills issue too.........._


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

1) Get the backing of the Exec. Your rules are good and commonly used , but get the backing of the Exec. 'Cause you know, first thing they're gonna do one you start slashing hours is go crying to the Exec.

2) Stick with it. You might have to pull double shifts becasue of this, but you have to stick with it for at least 3 mths.

3) Use "other" disciplinary methods. Begining of the shift, get them to write up their prep list, then get them to sign off on each item as they complete it. If they fudge, make sure they work the minimum amount of hours required by law and then send them home. I'm also a big fan of the sticky notes. Guy leaves a mess in the microwave, write a sticky note saying " you made a mess in the microwave clean it up now!" and stick it on his work station when his back is turned. Guy makes egg salad and leaves a teaspoon of mayo in an almost-empty 16 qt bucket in the walk-in, write him a note and stick it on his station. Smile and nod at them when they read it and stare at you. Drives most people nuts. Got a bartender to cry once, left a mess in the store room and wouldn't clean it up. "I'll clean it up tomorrow, right now I'm in a hurry." Following day I wrote a sticky note, dated it and signed it, and left it ontop of the mess. Week later the F&B comes by, sees the mess, the note and reams the guy out. My butt was covered, even though the store room was my responsibilty and it was messy.


----------



## steve a (Mar 13, 2006)

Rivitman,

My immediate gut thought was _maybe this is a case of too much to handle_ for the employee. Probably not though. If those folks have been with you any length of time, they'd know how long any particular task takes to complete. They'd also know which tasks can be completed simultaneously. That being said, before you hand their heinies to them on a platter, (and I'm saying this without malace) find out if they DO know what they're doing.

I agree with everything you've said, and trust me, I've been in your position many times over the years. I would also ask your people to give you updates as they complete something. That way YOU know something's done, THEY know what remains.

If you've got folks hungry for hours, and you've got the budget to allow for such, *offer* another hourly the opportunity to make the hours and finish the product(s).

My 2¢.

Ciao,


----------



## pete (Oct 7, 2001)

Had this problem where I worked once. It wasn't a case where the cooks couldn't handle the work load, they just didn't push themselves to get things done. I would take their prep lists and time out how long each task should take them, that way there was something, in writing, that I could hold them accountable for. They moaned and cried the first few days, but then realized that my timelines weren't unattainable, and found they even had time left over to help with special projects


----------



## rivitman (Jul 23, 2004)

None of the tasks involved are new.
They have no obvious awareness of the total kitchen workload, make no attempt to comprehend it, and have no ability to pace themselves correctly. They let time slip away, especially by starting out the day at a slow pace, and then perhaps speeding up after I say something. Correction of bad work habits lasts a few minutes or a day, then it's back to square one. Forget multitasking. Forget forsight. Did you pull the ingrediant out of the freezer? Did you heat the ingrediant while you are doing something else? Why are you working on the 8pm party when the one that goes out in an hour and a half At 5pm is untouched? Why is your work area cluttered to the point you can't move?

Individual prep lists have accomplished little except to suck up my time. 

In our kitchen, I work the crew for margin. We can have multiple functions going on at the same time, for hundreds and many times, thousands of guests. Things go wrong, and we need built in slices of time to be able to flex with the problems.

These guys push me right up against service time deadlines. When this happens, I have no choice but to become harsh dictator. They don't like that either, but seem uninterested in avoiding it. Being late with the food on a function IS a capitol crime. I will not under any circumstances, allow that to happen. And it hasn't yet......

But the amount of grief, stress, and pain this constant need to cajole, nag, direct, order, lecture,and hassle etc, is a bad deal for me and for the kitchen. These are not people I dislike personally. These are not people that have not been trained, These are not people that have not had their personal situations ignored.

If I were saying all of this to them directly, as I have several times, all I would get in return are blank stares, no explanations, nothing. No suggestions, no commitment to fix the problem. They have heard it before.

I appreciate your responses, when this thread plays itself out, I'm printing it and putting it on the reach-in door.


----------



## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Sorry Rivitman I feel for you but your post is making me smile.


----------



## shroomgirl (Aug 11, 2000)

When I've got an event having the crew on the same page is imparative....we meet over breakfast and talk out the game plan. That way everyone is on board. Takes time yes, but having things fall apart takes more time and involves alot more frustration.

Team build.

I learned along time ago that few work as fast as I do, and even fewer can read my mind. So if I don't clearly communicate my expectations there's noone to point a finger at but me.

Also budgeting enough time for out of ordinary occurances has saved my butt.....or in reverse caused alot of grief....time is either for or against you.


----------



## steve a (Mar 13, 2006)

Here's one that'll catch their eyes ~

Have you thought about hiring *replacement employees*? I'd be looking to do some house cleaning if I were in your shoes.

Ciao,


----------



## cakerookie (Sep 10, 2005)

GreaseChef has an interesting signature that says and I quote "If you dont' like it I will put out the help wanted sign now! What will it be?" end quote. I kind of relate to your situation though except mine was reversed. I had a Cook that no matter how much I had done and in on time for the meal to go out it wasn't good enough for him. I think in my case it was a personality clash I evenually left that guy for something else. But if you want to get their attention hit them where it hurts in their wallets! Not many things get peoples attention to quickly but if you start cutting into their wallets it might wake them up. Just my 2 cents.

Rgds Cakerookie...aka Rook


----------



## mikeb (Jun 29, 2004)

Fire them. Or at least the worst offender. 

If you still want to keep them, then move them all around stations. People get lazy when they do the same routine over and over again... A shake up might be good for them. Another question, are they making a fair wage? Money is often good motivation for people, but when they feel an employer isn't rewarding good performance, then they just give up and stop working, until they get a raise by finding a new job. 

What kind of place is this? What on earth could take a day to do? I know where I'm working, during prep time (2-5p.m.) I'll do on average over a dozen tasks (sometimes 20 or more individual tasks). Enough that I'm breaking a sweat before service even starts.


----------



## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Rivit
sorry to hear this. I have not read the posts so I appologize for duplicate views.
I'm hearing this employee can make it, their just not.
I'm hearing this cook just lacks a sense of urgency.


----------



## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Let's look at this situation from the EC's point of view: He's put Rivitman in charge of a kitchen with x amount of cooks, alot of function clipboards, approriate ingredients, and equipment. Whether the manpower is actually sufficient or not, the EC feels it is, because his reputation is based on it.

If the EC walks in at the beginning of the shift and sees, say 6 cooks, and then two hours later sees only 4 and knows that there's 3 functions to put out that day, he'll react very fast, and he'll react to the Chef in charge. His major concern will be if properly prepared food gets put out on time, and he won't see how this will be able to be done with 1/3 of the staff missing. 

If you're going to slash hours, make sure your butt is covered and you can put out the meals with the manpower you've got remaining. If the place you're in is large, and has a HR dept. make sure that you're not breaking any in-house rules or agreements they may have with your cooks. Basically, cover your butt before you start any disciplinary action, don't do anything on a knee-jerk reaction unless you catch a guy walking out to his car with a tenderloin stuffed in his pants. This will take some communication with the EC, but don't go to him with the problem, go to him with the solution and ask him for his blessing for your solution

You don't need the EC's blessing or even his acknowldegement for "other" wake-up-and-get-to-f'n-work methods. If you don't like the sticky notes idea, then there's also peer pressure. Works best in a meeting at the beginning of the shift. "Fred, how long do you think it'll take to tray up the meat for X party?" Fred says 30 minutes. Everyone hears him, then you move onto Barney and ask him how long to tray up the salads, Barney figures 1 hour, everyone hears him. But you'll have to be a magician and find the time to check up on Fred and Barney before their tasks are done. Even if they don't like you, they can't back out of their respective tasks, because they've told their buddies that they'd do the job within a certain time limit.


----------



## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

That post comes with experience all over it. Read it carefully. There's a saying about cutting your nose off to spite your mouth.
Also be careful about accusing the theft situation. A couple of times when I was young, I was accused of stuffing a tenderloin down my pants only to find out that I had not stole anything.


----------



## rivitman (Jul 23, 2004)

Large volume banquet/event facility.
With all rooms active it's possible that the number of covers in a day can exceed 4000 across 10 rooms. We also do outside catering. Prep for any given function can start days or even weeks in advance. Changes are allowed up to the day prior, and sometimes the day of the event (crazy). You name it we do it. Buffet. Plated meals. Multi course. Ethnic. Extensive displays. Breakfast, lunch, dinner. Party, wedding, meeting, concerts, concessions.
So yes, certain tasks can take nearly an entire day, or even more.

But the whims of the public can cause slack periods in bookings too.

But overall, serious volume here folks. 
Serious planning and logistical challenges. The mind must be willing, because the body is going along for the ride regardless.
And It's simply imperative that every soul in the kitchen be switched on from start to finish.

As to moving them around, about half of them are catagorically unqualified beyond advanced prep.
As to wages they are paid in accordance with their skill level generally, and at the prevailing rate for this area. But they came to us, learned quite a bit, and are feee to go do better if they can. An issue for some is the workload, for which I have no sympathy, because they are part of the problem, and seem not to want to be part of the solution.


----------



## richc (Apr 21, 2006)

Interesting post

Ok you can throw this out straight away but with no disrespect intended i think your being too soft on them.(I sympathise with you completely but i hope the following advice helps)

theres a disciplinary procedure you can take advantage off(remember your the boss!!) and if a verbal does nt work then its onto a written and if that does nt work then its a final then out.....their increeasing your stress way above where it should be and in fact dictating how you run your kitchen....the bad ones are dragging down the good ones and it all relates to performance issues but most importantly its you thats doing your job correctly but one or two bad apples are creating hurdles that simply should nt be there.

Id talk to the exec and tell him what the problems are and your solution is to .......then id follow it up with action.

may all sound a bit hard but normally its only one or two that causes a problem and everyone else feels happier when the problems solved.


best of luck with it all.

ps...Id work at getting myself off the day to day jobs and set yourself up to work around the team building their skills up through training(better trained they are then watch the stress vanish)


----------



## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

I think you need to figure out how many hours is reasonable per banquet, or rather, how many covers you can do per man hour and go from there.

For example, if your labor is 18% and you have a banquet for 100, average $10 per cover, then you can afford $18 which, if you pay your employees an average of $9/hr then it means you can afford to schedule 2 hours for that banquet. So it works out to 1hr/50ppl.

Of course that example is not realistic, but the math is easy.


----------



## nentony (May 7, 2005)

Pannini, same thing happened to me with vanilla beans.

Tony


----------



## greasechef (May 20, 2006)

100 people * $10 = $1,000
18% labour = $180
$9/ hour = 20 hours...

Phew, I'd hate to have somebody say, you have a banquet for 100 people in two hours, you should be able to get it done on your own in time. 

OK, I hope that they like pre-fab!


----------



## quinn01 (Apr 22, 2006)

God I love you....Ill work for you any day..... 

I am sitting here with my friend who is also very very into food and we laughed our asses off reading this. Thanks for making our day........


----------



## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

You can tell I'm not a pastry chef. 

One time I was so angry I almost fired a guy for being 250 chocolate mousse short. I should fire myself.


----------



## rivitman (Jul 23, 2004)

In a perfect world, yes. With a staff of six, events possible 7 days a week, contracts dropping from above with as little as a days notice (in some cases an hour or 2 or even "we need this in half an hour) working multiple contracts at the same time, for functions of different size, with different menus, at different costs, with the potential of discounts thrown in, this is quite impossible.
Total flexability and total awareness is called for.


----------



## quinn01 (Apr 22, 2006)

Nah man, i would have fired him too. 250 short!? Thats a big deal. 3 short thats different but 250!?


----------



## panini (Jul 28, 2001)

Kuan,
show me a Pastry shop preparing quality items, running 18% labor and I will just have to buy it.


----------



## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

The joke was... I cannot multiply and divide.


----------



## fricke45 (Jun 8, 2006)

I think that you will not have much employee's if you use your rules.


----------



## rivitman (Jul 23, 2004)

Well, there seems to be a stack of applications on the exec's desk.

Our kitchen can be a very tough place. The inattentive, the neglectful, they make life harder for everyone far beyond their worth. The rest of the crew, and particularly the Chef and I, take a real beating when folks simply don't carry their share.

Sometimes we sit back and wonder: "where have all the professionals gone?". Pro's wouldn't do this to their chef and sous, or thier co-workers. I'm determined to put an end to this lackadaisical, cavalier attitude some of them have, and the grief it causes. If they cannot understand, and find it within themselves to become motivated enough for a few hours a day, I'll zero them out. I've already started.


----------



## david jones (Jan 15, 2000)

Put the slowest cook on staff meal. Not only will the cook be embarassed by it, but if they can't make deadlines they will suffer the rath or their peers.

Then fire his *** in front of everyone.

(Just kidding.)

When you say it could be a lack of management experience.....?


----------



## rivitman (Jul 23, 2004)

Followup:
Two basically gone, a third seems to have gotten his act together.
All of these guys I find likeable on a personal level, but the issue came down to survival of myself and the rest of the crew under a crushing workload.

Fairness has nothing to do with it. Everyone we hire, I state the facts of the job, that it's extraordinarily difficult, and the conditions can at times be pretty bad. You climb on our lifeboat, you either row or swim.


----------



## cliveb (Mar 16, 2005)

Rivitman said:


> Followup:
> Two basically gone, a third seems to have gotten his act together.
> All of these guys I find likeable on a personal level, but the issue came down to survival of myself and the rest of the crew under a crushing workload.
> QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## gilbenjamin2000 (Jul 10, 2006)

From an Executive Chef - You don't have to be a jerk about things like deadlines and requiring your people to stick to them. If they can't, don't back down. Stick to your requirements and if your people can't meet them, get rid of them for others who can and will. Once one or two people go out the door, the rest will either follow or get in line and follow your rules. If you let your own rules slide and become meaningless, you might be the one going out the door.


----------

