# Hollandaise Sauce Question



## epicguy (Jul 7, 2010)

Hi, in my class, one of our assignments is going to be an open discussion on the differences of using whole butter vs clarified butter for hollandaise sauce.  I'm new to the culinary world so i do not have any personal knowledge on the subject.  But after some research all i could come up with is that when you clarify the butter, you remove the solids and the water from the butter fat  which would end up changing the consistency of the sauce.  I also know that it would change the flavor a bit.  I believe that the higher smoking point of clarified butter would not matter in this instance because with hollandaise sauce you do not bring the temperature high enough to make a difference due to not wanting to cook the eggs.

Anybody have any info/opinions/experience on whole butter vs clarified butter for hollandaise sauce?


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## philosophos (Jun 22, 2010)

Flavor, flavor, flavor. Properly browned, clarified butter has a nice nutty taste, and how far that is developed is a matter of personal taste quite often. I've done it through similar methods as a beurre noir by leaving the milk solids in to brown, and that gives an even heavier flavor.


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## beecher (Jun 9, 2010)

I have made a lot of Hollandaise sauce and have always used good QUALITY whole butter. I would never have thought to use clarified butter. Why would anyone DO that?


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## philosophos (Jun 22, 2010)

Melted butter, even browned, does not have quite the same qualities as clarified. Removing the milk solids alters things quite a bit; less of a toasted taste and a bit more like almond or hazelnut.


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## skatz85 (Mar 3, 2010)

my guess is flavor, since it contains the solids and all. i was always taught to use clariryfied butter. brown butter actually sounds really nice. we make some at one of my jobs might see if can make it for a special.maybe that could be your discusion of taking whole butter and by knowing how long to cook it u can obtain certain flavors. solids removed if making brown butter though


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## philosophos (Jun 22, 2010)

I've seen beurre noisette referred to as both explicitly leaving or removing the milk solids, and I'm starting to wonder which one is the original. To avoid the confusion I've always differentiated by using "clarified butter" when I mean no solids.


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## iplaywithfire (Jul 5, 2010)

EpicGuy said:


> Hi, in my class, one of our assignments is going to be an open discussion on the differences of using whole butter vs clarified butter for hollandaise sauce. I'm new to the culinary world so i do not have any personal knowledge on the subject. But after some research all i could come up with is that when you clarify the butter, you remove the solids and the water from the butter fat which would end up changing the consistency of the sauce. I also know that it would change the flavor a bit. I believe that the higher smoking point of clarified butter would not matter in this instance because with hollandaise sauce you do not bring the temperature high enough to make a difference due to not wanting to cook the eggs.
> 
> Anybody have any info/opinions/experience on whole butter vs clarified butter for hollandaise sauce?


One of the issues with hollandaise is its delicate nature. I know some people who swear that using clarified butter helps them make a smoother and more stable sauce. Personally, I think they just haven't tried making it enough with whole butter. Either way works fine for me, but both ways require practice. Depending on the end result I want (less creamy and nuttier flavor with clarified, or softer flavor and frothier texture with whole butter), I'll use either or.


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## epicguy (Jul 7, 2010)

So pretty much what I'm getting is the flavor and consistency would be different.  You can do a lot more things flavor wise to whole butter before you add it in than clarified butter that would give more of a nuttier taste. And the consistency of a whole butter hollandaise would be a bit thicker and "fluffier" than a clarified butter hollandaise.  But as long as you prepare it correctly, you can successfully make it with both.  Am I missing anything?


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## gunnar (Apr 3, 2008)

That's about it. best of luck.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

It can be done either way, by not clarifying butter your food cost drops 30 to 50% depending on brand of butter and is's score.


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## gypsy2727 (Mar 9, 2010)

I must be right out of the loop ....never have used clarified butter for hollandaise....I love the richness of whole buttter. I do however use clarified butter for omelettes.


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## teamfat (Nov 5, 2007)

I think I made hollandaise once with clarified butter, it just didn't seem to have the right richness and texture of the whole butter sauce.  It wasn't bad, mind you, I just preferred the other stuff.

mjb.


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## titomike (May 20, 2009)

So when you melt the butter it separates, right? Then when you add it your first using the clarified off the top and then adding the solids and the whey last...there should be a visible change in colour and consistency at this point. Like adding a little hot water to an over reduced cream sauce or an over saturated mayo.

So isn't everyone making it with clarified butter then finishing it to produce 'whole' butter hollandaise? or do you stir the butter before adding or just soften the butter or something?

Personally I've always discarded the whey and buttermilk but am interested in the differences you've observed. Using the above method I should be able to see/taste the difference with the same batch...or am I missing something?


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## beecher (Jun 9, 2010)

I always just add the whole butter in small bits whisked in at the end.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

> I would never have thought to use clarified butter. Why would anyone DO that?


Ask Escoffier.

My suggestion would be to do a side by side comparison. Make a hollandaise with clarified butter and a hollandaise with whole butter and decide for yourselves which one you prefer. I know my preference.

As a side note, in my experience, a hollandaise with whole butter will hold a little better due to the milk solids which help to bind the sauce.


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## chefmikeski (Apr 18, 2012)

Nowhere in Escoffier's Sauce Hollandaise recipe does he call for clarified butter...whole, softened or melted WHOLE butter are the only "classic" choices because the sauce was meant to be a showcase for the wonderful flavor of top quality butter. So many chefs these days (even culinary school instructors) will tell you without a moment's hesitation taht clarified butter is the "classic" choice, and it really frustrates me. I'm not able to find any documentation as to when, where, and/or who was responsible for the shift over to the use of clarified butter to make "classic" Hollandaise. Anyone able to find anything definite? My guess is that it occured during the most recent series of nouvell cuisine movementst in France during the 60's, 70's, and 80's...maybe Fernand Point and his disciples had something to with it?


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

I checked this against my own book and it is correct.

http://en.petitchef.com/recipes/hollandaise-sauce-fid-513536 ( Source ).....interesting post.

"From the book A Guide to Modern Cookery - Part I, and found on page 23, by G. A. Escoffier, the foundation recipe for hollandaise consists of quantities for preparing one-quart of the sauce and the ingredients listed for this 1909 version include the following.

1 ½ lb. butter, the yolks of 6 eggs, 1 pinch mignonette pepper and ¼ oz. salt, 3 tablespoonfuls of vinegar.

The only ingredient I am not familiar with in this listed in the pepper. According to Penzeys Spices, mignonette pepper is a classical blend, also known as "shot pepper," of cracked Tellicherry black pepper, Muntok white pepper and flavorful Moroccan coriander, and traditional in French-Canadian cooking and roasting.

Escoffier preparation procedure is described ? Put the salt, the mignonette, the vinegar, and as much water in a small saucepan, and reduce by three-quarters on the fire. Move the saucepan to a corner of the fire or into a bain-marie, and add a spoonful of fresh water and the yolks. Work the whole with a whisk until the yolks thicken and have the consistence of cream. Then remove the saucepan to a tepid place and gradually pour the butter on the yolks while briskly stirring the sauce. When the butter is absorbed, the sauce ought to be thick and firm. It is brought to the correct consistency with a little water, which also lightens it slightly, but the addition of water is optional. The sauce is competed by a drop of lemon juice, and it is rubbed through a tammy (a fine sieve or cheesecloth). He also provides a set of remarks ? The consistence of sauces whose processed are identical with those of the Hollandaise may be varied at will; for instance, the number of yolks may be increased if a very thick sauce is desired, and it may be lessoned in the reverse case. Also similar results may be obtained by cooking the eggs either more or less. As a rule, if a thick sauce be required, the yolks ought to be well cooked and the sauce kept almost cold in the making. Experience alone ? the fruit of long practice ? can teach the various devices which enable the skilled worker to obtain different results from the same kind and quality of material.

Escoffier had a way of breaking down descriptions of culinary preparations that were never done before, made them easy to understand and follow. Documentation of procedures and making them repeatable, and even 100 years later we find that the basic hollandaise has not changed very much. To the novice unfamiliar to certain terms may not know about ?bain-marie?, simply it is a hot water bath, or commonly known as a double boiler. Typically, one of the first sauces that a culinary apprentice will have to master is the art of making a hollandaise, as it takes skill, stamina, patience and practice to hone one that will hold up during service hours.

When working the line at a restaurant that has hollandaise on the menu, typically it is prepared just before service time as the shelf life is not very long, it usually sits out a room temperature to avoid becoming to thin or too thick. Too much heat will cause it to break and separate, and too cold it becomes a solid mass and unable to pour smoothly. Finding the right spot in the kitchen for service storage is always a challenge. Ladling a portion of hollandaise sauce on a plated Trout Pontchartrain is depicted in the image on the left."


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## chefmikeski (Apr 18, 2012)

Escoffier's recipe actually calls for leaving the yolks and vinegar reduction over a gentle heat while "gradually adding the softened or melted butter, ensuring the cohesion and emulsification of the sauce by the progressive cooking of the yolks." The beautiful thing I've discovered about making the sauce this way is it's increased stability and willingness to be allowed to cool and repeatedly re-heated for saucing a plate...great for solving the problem of the best way to hold it on the line through service.

What about the party/parties responsible for convincing most of the world that clarified butter is the "classic" choice?

When? Where? Who? Any information anyone can find would be greatly appreciated.


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

I don't understand, according to the info provided, the sauce was basically on *heat*.

_" Move the saucepan to a corner of the fire or into a bain-marie, and add a spoonful of fresh water and the yolks. Work the whole with a whisk until the yolks thicken and have the consistence of cream. Then remove the saucepan to a tepid place and gradually pour the butter on the yolks while briskly stirring the sauce "_

_What about the party/parties responsible for convincing most of the world that clarified butter is the "classic" choice?_

The basic recipe stays the same, there is no right or wrong answer here.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

Escoffier does not indicate if he used the solids or clarified butter but he does indicate that clarified butter should always be kept at the ready. It's also clear from his recipe that he is using melted butter. I think one could make the argument either way solely based on Escoffier. I always use clarified butter as I find the solids can create a heavy sauce or worse if using salted butter. It's also worth noting that Escoffier referred to the solids as "scum". I have to question the notion that he would cook with an ingredient for such a delicate sauce that he viewed as "scum" even if he did run the sauce through a fine sieve. Since Escoffier uses salt I would wonder if butter in the time frame he wrote this was salted or un-salted. If it contained salt I think it would be clear that Escoffier was using clarified butter.

In either event the Master does give the reader license to interpret the recipe as desired.

Dave


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## chefmikeski (Apr 18, 2012)

Dave,

Are you looking at a copy of the book as you write this? In his Hollandaise recipe, Escoffier writes "softened or melted" butter...a.k.a. WHOLE butter. The subtle and very specific individual flavor characteristics of whole butter are removed during the clarification process, rendering all clarified butter more of the less the same in the flavor department. Hence, it stands to reason that a sauce that is intended to showcase the superior flavor a particular region's butter would be made using WHOLE butter. Oui?


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

chefmikeski said:


> In his Hollandaise recipe, Escoffier writes "softened or melted" butter...a.k.a. WHOLE butter.


Escoffier does not use the term "softened" butter at all in his Hollandaise recipe. He clearly says "pour" the butter which would explicitly exclude "softened" or whole butter.

There is no indication at all that he was trying to show case an artisinal or regional butter, do you have a source to substantiate that theory?

If you read Escoffier his view on solids in melted butter is quite clear. I think Escoffier is precisely where clarified butter started in Hollandaise.

IIR Jacques Pepin does use softened butter so pick your poison. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif

Dave


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

To me Escoffier was using hot butter not softened or room temp. It is easier to teach a newb how to make it in a blender using hot butter to heat the yolks. To have a student stand here and whisk over a pot of kot water on the stove is asking for trouble. 1 in most cases sauce will break and he or she is highly likely to burn themselves. In his time all butter was what is known as 93 score today however butter by different manufacturers contains different amounts of water.

Margarine also . some contains so much water that on the label they even advise you not to cook or saute with it.  Cream in his time was at least 35 to 45 % butterfat but again not today, every brand is different. Now we even have imitation margarine, it looks like it was concocked by a pharmacist  or chemist.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Use soft butter and you will end up with a very thick emulsion.  Very very thick.


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## chefmikeski (Apr 18, 2012)

Dave,

Page 21, recipe number 119 in Escoffier's The Complete Guide to the Art of Modern Cookery...as I quoted before: "whisk continuously over gentle heat whilst gradually adding soft or melted butter"...so on and so forth. Please tell me what Escoffier book it is that you're reading where he has actually written the words POUR and CLARIFIED butter in regards to his Hollandaise recipe.

Mike


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

gypsy2727 said:


> I must be right out of the loop ....never have used clarified butter for hollandaise....I love the richness of whole buttter. I do however use clarified butter for omelettes.


Don't understand this. Whole butter is usually 81-82% butterfat, with the rest being mainly water. Clarified butter is around 99-100% butterfat-much richer than 82%.

fwiw I was always taught to use clarified butter


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Guide Culinaire . A Escoffier  Crown Publishing    The original text. When I served my apprenticship in Nice   France(Hotel Negresco) over 50 years ago  Clarrified butter was made every day and used for EVERYTHING. I was only American in kitchen. All French. Swiss, and German Chefs.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

chefmikeski said:


> Dave,
> 
> Page 21, recipe number 119 in Escoffier's The Complete Guide to the Art of Modern Cookery...as I quoted before: "whisk continuously over gentle heat whilst gradually adding soft or melted butter"...so on and so forth. Please tell me what Escoffier book it is that you're reading where he has actually written the words POUR and CLARIFIED butter in regards to his Hollandaise recipe.
> 
> Mike


Mike,

You may want to consider getting a copy of "Le Guide Culinaire" by Escoffier. I have a few different editions (including The Escoffier Cook book-A guide to the fine art of Cookery) here but not the edition noted by either you or Petals. However If you look up-thread you can see exactly what I have word for word as Petalsandcoco was kind enough to post it for you... verbatim.

You can cleary see Escoffier says "pour" the butter and there is no mention of adding "softened" butter.

BTW did you have a source on your statement that Hollandaise was created to show case "top quality butter"? To whom do you attribute the creation of the sauce?

You may find this an interesting read as Ruhlman uses Escoffier's Le Guide Culinaire as a reference as well.

Dave

http://ruhlman.com/2010/06/classic-hollandaise-sauce/


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Actually, one of the reasons for the clarified vs. whole butter--in my opinion-- is economy.

"in my time" in N. America, most places brought in _salted_ butter in 50 lb cases. F.O.H. used this for butter rolls/curls and the kitchen used the rest. This also included left over butter from bread baskets. Invariably butter was thrown into0 a big pot and clarifiied. This acomplished two things: One,being that salt is water soluable but not fat soluable, the resulting clarifiied butter had much of it's salt removed (Using whole salted butter would make for a very hollandaise), and second, the high heat wold (hopefully) sterilize the butter. In many of the places the butter was NOT brought to a noisette, but just to a big boil and left to cool. A hole was then drilled in to the cake and the liquid poured off--this was "treasured" for making mashed pots.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

I'm a fan of unsalted butter--unclarified--in my hollandaise as well. I like the flavor the milk solids supply.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

chefmikeski said:


> Dave,
> 
> Page 21, recipe number 119 in Escoffier's The Complete Guide to the Art of Modern Cookery...as I quoted before: "whisk continuously over gentle heat whilst gradually adding soft or melted butter"...so on and so forth. Please tell me what Escoffier book it is that you're reading where he has actually written the words POUR and CLARIFIED butter in regards to his Hollandaise recipe.
> 
> Mike


I think if you're adding soft butter over heat that would work. Never done it that way though.


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## chefmikeski (Apr 18, 2012)

Dave,

_Le Guide Culinaire_ is the same book as_ The Complete Guide to the Art of Modern Cookery, _is it not? I have a couple of them as well. The recipe transcribed by Petalsandcoco does not seem to be truly "verbatim"...his/her own words pepper the recipe and MOP, and I do not see the word "pour" anywhere in Escoffier's original Hollandaise recipe when butter is added to the egg yolk and vinegar reduction base. And, as much as I love Michael Ruhlman, just because he was taught to use clarified butter to make Hollandaise at the CIA does not make it the "classic" version. His reference is the very same book I am looking at right now and have been quoting from, verbatim, all along. As far as the source for the argument of the sauce being a showcase for the best quality butter, it's a bit murky, but seems to start in a rudimentary form with La Varenne, slide through the mid 19th century with Mrs. Beeton as Sauce Isigny (town in Normandy?, known for great butter and other dairy), and then emerge as Hollandaise around the dawn of the 20th century, apparently due to the decline of Isigny's dairy industry and the subsequent acceptance of the Netherlands as the source of the world's best butter. The "creation" of the sauce seems to have happened gradually over many decades...what I'm really interested in is who can take credit for the initial use and eventual widespread popularity of clarified butter as the "classic" form. Also, if you can actually give me page numbers to look up where Escoffier says anything about clarified butter in regards to butter sauce production, I'd appreciate it...I can't seem to find anything.

Mike


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Duck Fat  /   My edition says same as yours.  I also have a version written in French and it says same thing but in different words.


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## thatchairlady (Feb 15, 2012)

Have found that if Hollandaise "breaks" it can often be brought back with a fewtbsps of HOT water (from simmering water beneath bowl) and a quick whisk.


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

Direct from the Book.


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## chefmikeski (Apr 18, 2012)

Interesting...apparently this debate comes down to the particular version/translation of the Le Guide from which one is reading. Although, it can be agreed upon that there is no mention of clarified butter in either translation. Does Petalsandcoco own the Cracknell and Kaufmann translation?...there are obviously some interesting differences in the particular wording of the technique, and I feel that I trust this version as being more true to Escoffier's original intent than the book whose pages you've included above.


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

Mike,

I am not about to split hairs , it is what it is.

Petals.


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## chefmikeski (Apr 18, 2012)

Isn't "splitting hairs" part of what is so enjoyable and educational about participating in these discussions? Dave, does your French language version of _Le Guide _by any chance include a recipe number with the Sauce Hollandaise entry? It's interesting to me that a book such as this that was designed to be such a static,codified, referencetool for experienced cooks has different editons with different reference numbers for the same recipe. In the Cracknell and Kaufmann translation, Hollandaise is recipe #119, and in Petals' version it seem to be #30.

Thanks,

Mike


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

Just for novelty's sake, when making roux do you use whole or clarified butter? Without looking, what would Escoffier do?


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

I really do take issue with Escoffier's method. The way it's written makes it seem like Escoffier never made Hollandaise. Here's what I think.

1) You should add enough butter so the Hollandaise does not taste like egg yolks.

2) A couple drops of warm water to loosen the sauce, cold to tighten it. You don't just add water.

Here's how I make it:


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Kuan, now this gets interesting...

My German edition of "Le guide culinaire" (Kochkunstfuhrer) _does not include Hollandaise. _Espagnole, the ground sauces, compound butters, but no Hollandaise, or any other variation of it.

I was scratching my head as to why the Swiss clarify the butter for holly, and I have my answer--Pauli says to. "Lehrbuch der Kuche" or "Classical cooking the modern way" is the standard textbook for all Swiss cooks--has been for about 50 years now. No one deviates from that book...


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## chefmikeski (Apr 18, 2012)

We teach our students to use clarified butter for roux...eliminating the possibility of burning the milk solids in a darker roux.


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## chefmikeski (Apr 18, 2012)

Kuan,

Give this a try...place two egg yolks in a clean, small saucepan. Add approx. 1 tsp lemon juice, 1 tsp cool water, a pinch of salt, white pepper, and cayenne. Whisk to combine. Next, add 4 ounces of cold, cubed butter to the pan with the yolk mixture. Place the pan over medium low heat, and stir gently but continuously until the butter melts and the sauce begins to thicken. Pull the pan from the flame, and keep whisking...sometimes the residual heat will carry the sauce to perfect consistency, other times you might need to put the pan back over the flame to thicken it up a bit more. If the sauce is at proper serving temperature, the temperature of the water you add to it as a consistency adjuster doesn't matter...hot, cold, it all works the same if the sauce is the right temp. Add more lemon if you think it needs it. All in all, this version shouldn't take more than a minute and a half from start to finish, and you've only used one saucepan. Also, it cools and reheats beautifully...just add a drop of water when reheating to keep the sauce from separating...a busy line cook's dream...no need to try and hold a large batch through service when you can make high quality fresh Hollandaise so easliy "a la minute".

Mike


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

chefmikeski said:


> Interesting...apparently this debate comes down to the particular version/translation of the Le Guide from which one is reading. Although, it can be agreed upon that there is no mention of clarified butter in either translation.


The only thing that should change with any edition of Escoffier is the number of recipes in the abridged editions and the introductions. Reference numbers are irrelivent as they only relate to the number of recipes in each edition. The content should never change in regards to recipe translation. I'm befuddled as to why you can't find clarified butter in your own index....in any of your copies or why you have a different wording than the rest of us.

Perhaps you would kind enough to scan yours and post it just as Petalsandcoco did since you appear to have the only copy that is different?

In either event there is no indication any where that Hollandaise was created to showcase "top quality butter". I think that's a stretch to assume considering that in the time frame this sauce began all butter was an artisinal hand churned product. The history looks more like a Wikipedia cut and paste. In this case wiki-wiki-opinedia seems to be taking more than a bit of artistic license in regard to their quote from Larousse.

Dave


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## chefmikeski (Apr 18, 2012)

If you don't think the production location of high quality butter is the inspiration for the naming of this sauce, I'm interested to hear your theory on why the names Isigny and Hollandaise were chosen for its titles over the past decades? Also, am I to understand that you are actually seeing the word _clarified _in the Hollandaise recipe in the Cracknell and Kaufmann translation? I, as well, find it strange that I would be inpossession of some sort of mutant copy...or maybe I just need new glasses. I don't have access to a scanner until later tonight, but I'll try to get the recipe in here soon.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

I usually make it in a pan over direct but very low heat. I have a terribly wimpy burner that's good for this. I use cold butter in small amounts and whisk it in as it melts. Alton Brown espouses a similar technique. 

The first few times I made it, I did the double-boiler techniques and found it more of a hassle than I thought worthwhile. 

I've got an induction burner now with a low temp setting of 180. It would be interesting to try it over that heat setting and see how forgiving it is. i bet it's a bit slow, but would be good for a first timer as it has lowers the chance of the sauce getting away from a novice cook and curdling.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

The whisking of yolks and reduction and/or water is--for all intents and purposes--a sabayon.

Sabayons should be whisked over a waterbath, and if properly made are bomb-proof.  IMHO when making a holly, the most important part is the "sabayon", if this is made properly the sauce will never break, it can be thckened or thinned at wilI. I've done this technique in volumes of 30 liters (using a Hobart to incorporate the butter only) to a'la minute for special plates of 1 or two.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

What do you think of a temp controlled induction system then? That seems to fit all the reasons that you would use a water bath anyway.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Roux used to be made by putting flour on sheet pan and toast in oven  achieve blond and brown color to flour. This then made the prepf roux easier ,faster and less chance of burning. white roux on top of stove . In this day and age you can even buy a roux base. or buy a Demi Glace or Hollandaise. To me then why go to school?


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

phatch said:


> What do you think of a temp controlled induction system then? That seems to fit all the reasons that you would use a water bath anyway.


Y'know, I've never used induction yet, smart enough not to buy the cheap asian ones, and too cheap to buy the really expensive ones.

Thing with any burner is, is that you only get heat on the bottom of the pan. If using a pan to whisk yolks, most would use a sauteuse*, as you can get a whisk easy in there with no "corners" to stick and burn.

With a water bath, the whole bowl is immersed in water, so you get even heating all over the surface of the bowl--or, if the water boils, you get even steam heating all over the surface of the bowl. With dry heat, the only thing that comes close is a kwali range--made for woks.

* Sauteuse is the classic name used for about a hundred years now for a bowl-shaped pot with a long handle. (the pan with straight, perfectly vertical sides is called a sautoir). I believe the Americans have given this pot a new name--"Saucier"--which for me, will always mean a red-faced guy sneaking out the back for a smoke during the slow periods of the day....


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Ed, I'm not sure I understand your point. 

There are many cooking tasks that have been specialized and automated and well accepted as such for quality, price and other reasons. I see no reason to say it's bad just because it's not the way it used to be. 

I usually buy my bread, though I can make it myself. Some I make better than I can buy, others I don't. 

I buy cheese. Same for wine or beer. I could make those things. Certainly distilling is a more technical process than fermenting which is why I suppose it separated itself out fairly early from the mainstream of home crafting. 

I don't slaughter or butcher my own cows though I have the equipment to get through it I suppose.

Sure knowing old ways is fun. I cook with charcoal in a dutch oven when camping, much the way it was done centuries back. I don't do it for historical reasons. I don't do it for nostalgia. I do it because it works for the conditions I'm in and produces good food. 

There are good factory produced products and poor ones. Just that they exist doesn't make them good or bad. more if they were produced badly. The good products still use the same basic methods that were done individually in the traditional way and volumes. I've read good reviews of the commercial demi right here on cheftalk. 

I've heard that you can buy roux in stores, but not in my neck of the woods. That's something I don't see myself doing as it's done easily enough and quickly that there's not enough benefit, even if done well commercially. 

Hollandaise doesn't lend itself to commercial production with current technology. I've seen jars and mixes for sale and I'd say they're not even hollandaise based on the ingredients. Nor have the things I've seen called hollandaise merited the name in chain eateries I've been in. Even tasted a few. Bleah.

The point of automation is to take out the time consuming repetition. Making stocks and reducing them takes a lot of time of little attention. Perfect for automation. The processing for storage and sale is improving in these areas all the time and will continue to do so, which is what brings the better quality products to the market now rather than in the 60s, or 70s. 

Going to school to learn to reduce stocks is a waste of time. Going to school to learn how to build flavor and combine them, that's worthwhile. 

If you want to pour a pouch of warm demi over a cutlet seasoned and vacced from sysco and heated in your sous vide circulator, time and temp read from the RFID on the pouch, well that's probably coming too for high school drop outs near you.

Hollandaise, they can't automate yet. But don't say it can't ever be done with good results.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Guess my main point is  If every place buys eveything already made, then no matter where you go it will be the same (A La McDonalds or franchise) Then what would make me go to your place instead of Joes place when evrything taste the same. Only thing then you could offer to make a difference is better service and ambiance.  Although I did try a sample of frozen Hollandaise, it was passable but the good thing about it was it did not have to be thrown out after service and did not break, therefore cost effective. I havge tried the Already made Demi and found it salty and expensive, and it was supposed to be top of the line.. Another point is you are the chef and a delivery is late your already mad sauce does bot arrive so you will have to make it, but every place you ever were in they purchased it, now what do you do since you never made it. ??and maybe were never taught how.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

phatch said:


> The point of automation is to take out the time consuming repetition.


I would say the point of automation is Profit.

Pure and simple.

Profit for the corporations selling pseudo chemical based food full of salt and preservatives Vs. actually taking to make an authentic product, be it stock, cheese, beer or bread. Profit for the chain he** establishments utilizing labor whose skill set doesn't extend beyond opening a box or can. I'm sure most of us don't buy beef on the hoof but it's getting more and more common to see young "Chef's" that can't even break down a tenderloin, let alone create a Hollandaise or appreciate the nuance between one made with clarified butter or softened butter. Why bother learning all of that when you can grab a can of knorr-Swiss or better yet just open a jar?

Sounds like a riff from a Zappa song.....Just add water, makes it's own sauce!

I think the point Ed is making is solid and that's why we have seen a resurgence with products like artisinal cheese, Heritage breeds, micro-breweries etc.

Thankfully we have a growing consumer segment that is willing to pony up for quality artisinal products. Learning those old school cooking techniques isn't something that's just done for fun but rather a skill set that should be the back bone of our craft. I don't see technology and instant products replacing skill or knowledge but rather complimenting it.

You may get "good" results from an instant Hollandaise but it's not going to make a dish sing like a silky smooth and perfectly balanced sauce made by a Chef with skill.

Some times good.....Isn't good enough.

Dave


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Good Analogy Chef. Why pay $44000.00 to go to school to learn the culinary arts and then open a box or plastic bag, bring to a boil and serve. The schools don't even teach meat cutting anymore because they buy boxed meat. I have worked with some instructors that can't do butcher work. Watch some of the cooking competitions on TV they really screw up the fish, the exuse being"I have never worked with this" in particular on the show CHOPPED. I am glad I was born in my era, and worked with the old time culinarians that I worked with. I may have been called old fashioned by todays standards but it was good and not produced in a test tube in a lab.


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Well, yeah automation can be much cheaper  to produce, think it was H. Ford who came up with the idea.  But automation brings on it's own problems--mostly with volume.  It wouldn't mke much sense to fire up a production line if you can't meet minimum qty of say10-30,000 units.  If you have warehousing, transport and sales dept's to deal with this--no problem, but everything is volume based, not quality based.

My "business philosophy" in both of my businesses was to produce something no one else could, and I would never have to compete on price.  You can't do this if you're selling the sam effing thing as the guy next door and you have to go low on price or cut corners somewhere else.  Making stuff yourself-braking down meat, making stuff from scratch is labour intensive and expensive--an require a thorough knowledge of the products used and techniques.  However, it also allows you tremendous flexibility and creativity.

Someday soon a line will be drawn in the sand between those who depend entirely on convienience products, and those who do almost everything by themselves--no room for fence sitters........


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

If I break down my own forequarters or hindquarters which does not take me long, I get varios cuts of meat plus trim for chopped meat,at about an ave. price of 1.70 to 2.10 a pound

 If I buy all these cuts seperate, cost me a lot more , chop meat alone 2.85.  If I paid myself say even $50.00 an hour I am still ahead of the game.


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

I agree with you that this path can lead to sameness and food without insight or craft. And in some eateries certainly will.

But it doesn't have to and many will continue to make their own for putting their personal flavor choices into the food. That too will continue to have an audience.


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## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

Temp control? I guess you won't be surprised with this coming from me.

http://blog.sousvidesupreme.com/2011/04/sous-vide-hollandaise-sauce/

I'm starting to think my motto should be "why do something in 5 minutes when you can do it in an hour?"

--Al


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## phatch (Mar 29, 2002)

Well, it's an hour you're not paying attention to it....


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

AllanMcPherson said:


> Temp control? I guess you won't be surprised with this coming from me.
> 
> http://blog.sousvidesupreme.com/2011/04/sous-vide-hollandaise-sauce/
> 
> ...


You are too much!


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## zoebisch (Apr 9, 2012)

DuckFat said:


> Some times good.....Isn't good enough.
> 
> Dave


Without going into "the best is the enemy of the good" realm, there is a realm where people get a very bad interpretation of a dish/sauce/etc and walk away thinking and saying "oh yes I have had such-and-such and don't bother". I have experienced many times where people will have something I have prepared and basically said "I normally don't like such-and-such but this is fabulous". Like the first time you eat say, a farm fresh hard boiled egg that isn't cooked to green chalk. I am sure people walk away with the green chalk experience thinking "yes I have had a hard boiled egg, and I hate them". "Oh yeah, Hollandaise, I _know_ that sauce". I've always made it with melted butter, that is how I was taught....haven't tried the clarified route, nor the soft butter route, although the latter intrigues me more than the former but I'll eventually try them both for comparison. Seems to me, proportionally aside from the various proteins, acids, minerals and lactose you have the water content (a nod to the concept of the terroir being addressed in this thread). If you do the melted butter you'll notice that if your proportions are right then at the end that addition of the collected water and solids really brings the sauce to the proper consistency, at least from my perspective.


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## zoebisch (Apr 9, 2012)

foodpump said:


> Someday soon a line will be drawn in the sand between those who depend entirely on convienience products, and those who do almost everything by themselves--no room for fence sitters........


I envision those things which I do not have the time/skill/facility to create would be provided by another artisan. Obviously Hollandaise isn't one of them, but the ingredients are. I raise the eggs, but not the cow for the cream. But I know who has the best cream in the area and I can then churn it and culture it to make butter. It's all about the relative level of quality of all everything. And these things aren't necessarily always more expensive. One place here makes yogurt that is just mind-blowing and they sell it for $2.90/qt. Compared with the rising popularity of "Greek" style yogurts in the area and the supermarket price of ~$5/qt, the former is far far superior and much less expensive. I think much of it is about perspective on the part of the restaurant and the customer that needs an adjustment.


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

zoebisch said:


> Without going into "the best is the enemy of the good" realm, there is a realm where people get a very bad interpretation of a dish/sauce/etc and walk away thinking and saying "oh yes I have had such-and-such and don't bother".
> 
> If you do the melted butter you'll notice that if your proportions are right then at the end that addition of the collected water and solids really brings the sauce to the proper consistency, at least from my perspective.


So the solution is to use mediocre instant or pre-made products for the sake of consistency? Chain restaurants may say yes but is that really because of quality? We can doctor up an instant product but that has point of diminishing returns.

One of the things that seems to have been a bit over looked is that when we add solids they can de-stabilize the sauce. Not so much of a problem at home but a real issue in most professional kitchens. Considering that separating the solids usually drives food cost up I would say that clarified butter was so widely used for a reason....stability.

In the mean time lets not forget we were driven off the rails a bit by the suggestion that those of us using clarified butter are a bit miss-guided in our interpretation, Not the notion that there is more than one way to make a quality sauce. There have been a lot of variations on nearly every sauce and irrespective of using clarified butter, melted butter or softened butter it's all a big step above a pre-fab or instant product when done right.

Dave


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## zoebisch (Apr 9, 2012)

DuckFat said:


> So the solution is to use mediocre instant or pre-made products for the sake of consistency? Chain restaurants may say yes but is that really because of quality? We can doctor up an instant product but that has point of diminishing returns.
> 
> One of the things that seems to have been a bit over looked is that when we add solids they can de-stabilize the sauce. Not so much of a problem at home but a real issue in most professional kitchens. Considering that separating the solids usually drives food cost up I would say that clarified butter was so widely used for a reason....stability.
> 
> ...


Right, it's a choice based on several reasons. Personally I find none of them acceptable. Take the dish using Hollandaise off your menu. That is how I would personally approach it (if moving to the level of these pre-fab ideas).


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## zoebisch (Apr 9, 2012)

DuckFat said:


> So the solution is to use mediocre instant or pre-made products for the sake of consistency? Chain restaurants may say yes but is that really because of quality? We can doctor up an instant product but that has point of diminishing returns.
> 
> Dave


I'm not sure I understand wrt my post where you are coming from?


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## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

phatch said:


> Well, it's an hour you're not paying attention to it....


Exactly. And there is no holding issue. Once emulsified you can keep in the water bath till the cows come home. Or until the english muffins are toasted.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

FWIW, a thermos bottle works even better than a water bath.  Hollandaise held in a bain marie tends to either form a skin on top, have a little oil (from the butter) float to the top, or (yum-o) both.

BDL


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## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

Totally agree with the thermos, BDL.  I did an off-site wine tasting last week and used those for all my sauces, even a buerre rouge.  A little shake pulls it right back together.

--Al


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

AllanMcPherson said:


> And there is no holding issue. Once emulsified you can keep in the water bath till the cows come home.


Do you attribute that to codling the eggs or that you are using about 1/3 the "classic" ratio of butter to egg? I'm not sure I can see the benefit of Sous-vide Hollandaise as it just looks like a blender version in the end only with an even greater disparity in the egg/butter ratio.

I think most of the blender versions are less stable as they tend to incorporate a lot of air. If you have to shake your sauce up to re-emulisy it sounds like a mighty thin sauce. I'd just want to know why my sauce was separating enough to need to be shaken like a Martini. It would however be quite stylish if you were saucing at the table for a James Bond premiere.

Dave


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## allanmcpherson (Apr 5, 2007)

Dave,

The mason jar technique only requires shaking to speed the process along. To some extent it is blender hollandaise, with the advantage of having the eggs being beyond coddled -- they are "cooked" and sterile. The biggest advantage is that it will not break, the butter won't split, the eggs can't overcook. With the cost of butter being what it is I appreciate an idiot proof way of making hot emulsions, especially one that removes the need to time the dish around the sauce. You know the sauce is going to be ready to go when your plate is. Even leftovers can be easily reheated by bringing the jar back to 65 degrees.

I think you boxed a couple of my posts. The hollandaise is too thick to shake --- I was referring to a red wine and butter sauce being shaken in a thermos. No eggs as liason, and that sauce was just made in a pan. Good things those pans. They might catch on.

--Al


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

A photo of the big man himself (center left) at the Palais d'Orsay.

Dave


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## boudreauxcooks (May 16, 2012)

.


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## boudreauxcooks (May 16, 2012)

chefedb said:


> To me Escoffier was using hot butter not softened or room temp. It is easier to teach a newb how to make it in a blender using hot butter to heat the yolks. To have a student stand here and whisk over a pot of kot water on the stove is asking for trouble. 1 in most cases sauce will break and he or she is highly likely to burn themselves. In his time all butter was what is known as 93 score today however butter by different manufacturers contains different amounts of water.
> 
> Margarine also . some contains so much water that on the label they even advise you not to cook or saute with it. Cream in his time was at least 35 to 45 % butterfat but again not today, every brand is different. Now we even have imitation margarine, it looks like it was concocked by a pharmacist or chemist.


Chef, I mean no disrespect to your vast knowledge of culinary. However when it comes to culinary students, I believe it is best to teach them the classic method. To cut corners and teach them to use a blender for a classic mother sauce is just not giving them the true knowledge of culinary arts. Being a student myself, I can say that in my sauces class no student burned themselves, many a student did curdle the yolk however. It was through the hands on experience in the classic preperation they gained the knowledge of the art of hollandaise. From there they can experiment or try tricks, or follow the Ex. Chef's instructions on how it is executed in his kitchen.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

I agree. When I was teaching school I showed the class how to make it with a Robo, a Blender and by hand. My logic was when they went out into the trade each place makes it a different way so now they see all 3.  . I also told them Robo and Blender style best for volume .


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## chesco (May 14, 2012)

Classical training, thats the way the French do it.


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## chefzoneau (Jun 21, 2012)

EpicGuy said:


> Hi, in my class, one of our assignments is going to be an open discussion on the differences of using whole butter vs clarified butter for hollandaise sauce. I'm new to the culinary world so i do not have any personal knowledge on the subject. But after some research all i could come up with is that when you clarify the butter, you remove the solids and the water from the butter fat which would end up changing the consistency of the sauce. I also know that it would change the flavor a bit. I believe that the higher smoking point of clarified butter would not matter in this instance because with hollandaise sauce you do not bring the temperature high enough to make a difference due to not wanting to cook the eggs.
> 
> Anybody have any info/opinions/experience on whole butter vs clarified butter for hollandaise sauce?


Whole butter hollandaise will not be as rich as clarified butter it will need more eggs to get thick and the emulsion will be unstable, and if i was your chef and you didn't use clarified butter i would kick your ass lol........ALways use clarified butter for hollandaise and Bearnaise  hope this helps


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

I have seen placed that use mayonaise as a base.. I tried it home and added a bit of cayenne and few drops H20.  It was not bad. The reason I tried it ? We do many Kosher parties and Hollandaise can't be used on meat plate where as this can. It can be served with meat or dairy meals.


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## chefzoneau (Jun 21, 2012)

boudreauxcooks said:


> Chef, I mean no disrespect to your vast knowledge of culinary. However when it comes to culinary students, I believe it is best to teach them the classic method. To cut corners and teach them to use a blender for a classic mother sauce is just not giving them the true knowledge of culinary arts. Being a student myself, I can say that in my sauces class no student burned themselves, many a student did curdle the yolk however. It was through the hands on experience in the classic preperation they gained the knowledge of the art of hollandaise. From there they can experiment or try tricks, or follow the Ex. Chef's instructions on how it is executed in his kitchen.


Chef no disrespect either but I'm a teacher and i agree 100% with *boudreauxcooks, **making sabayon is a fundamental skill, If you learn how to make it in a thermoxmix, robot coupe, etc, etc, you can't go back to the classic way, but if you learn the classic way you can always use a thermomix etc, etc  *


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

ChefZoneAU said:


> Whole butter hollandaise will not be as rich as clarified butter it will need more eggs to get thick and the emulsion will be unstable, and if i was your chef and you didn't use clarified butter i would kick your ass lol........ALways use clarified butter for hollandaise and Bearnaise  hope this helps


The thickness can be controlled by drops of warm or cold water. Oldest trick that's not a trick in the book. Why am I repeating myself so much. Whole melted butter is fine too. I have never noticed a difference in the way the emulsion holds using clarified and non. There's enough lecithin in an egg yolk to emulsify a gallon of butter. Technique and feel is what holds it together. Besides, it only takes two minutes to make a couple three servings. By the time your muffins are toasted or your fish is poached your Hollandaise is done.

I know. Sometimes I feel like my way is the best way. I understand that you feel the same way too. But I am right.


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## chefzoneau (Jun 21, 2012)

just emulsify water and eggs then lol


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Hey forget the eggs.  Use water and emulsifier.  

Actually that's the scary non-fat dressing stuff.


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## chefzoneau (Jun 21, 2012)

the supermarket stuff with the suspended herbs through it ? yeah crazy stuff i believe its agar agar mimicking the oil mouth feel.


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## petalsandcoco (Aug 25, 2009)

LOL.

Frying Hollandaise !

http://www.sciencefriday.com/video/08/28/2009/stovetop-science-frying-hollandaise.html

Petals.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

ChefZoneAU said:


> Whole butter hollandaise will not be as rich as clarified butter it will need more eggs to get thick and the emulsion will be unstable


In my experience with doing side by side comparison tests, whole butter hollandaise will be a somewhat thinner consistency but with a richer and rounder flavor profile.

As to the stability question, I haven't really done an specific testing along those lines other than having made it both ways for years with no real problem with either, however I am curious as to reasoning on this issue.

Mine is that when you clarifiy butter you are getting rid of milk solids along with the water. Milk solids are stabilizers, so a whole butter hollandaise would be more stable.

When making a beurre blanc, if you want it more stable you add cream. The same thing with a vinaigrette. Are there flaws in my reasoning?


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Many products use glycerin to simulate oil or fat. Ice cream producers some time use it a lot to give it a rich feel when going down the throat


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

Cheflayne said raised some interesting points. I neither agree nor disagree -- least not to the point of saying anyone is absolutely right or wrong -- but think the way he raised them provides some good jumping off places for further discussion. 


> In my experience with doing side by side comparison tests, whole butter hollandaise will be a somewhat thinner consistency but with a richer and rounder flavor profile.


In my experience, you can control thickness and thinness pretty easily with the butter/egg ratio. If, as most people do, you use melted butter -- whether whole or clarified -- it depends on when you stop. Methods of mixing, specifically whisk vs blender, make a bigger difference than whole or clarified. So do tweaks such as adding a bit of hot water.


> As to the stability question, I haven't really done an specific testing along those lines other than having made it both ways for years with no real problem with either, however I am curious as to reasoning on this issue. Mine is that when you clarifiy butter you are getting rid of milk solids along with the water. Milk solids are stabilizers, so a whole butter hollandaise would be more stable.


A little off, but I find that "mounting butter" into heated egg yolks, is the safest way to bring the sauce together; and because it's so sure it's the method I most often recommend to people who (a) haven't done an butter/egg emulsion before; and (b) are looking for the silkiness you get with a handmade sauce. On the other hand, this method doesn't make for a particularly stable sauce. It's my impression based on what people I trust say rather than my own experience is that emulsions made with clarified butter hold better over low heat than those made with whole butter.

When I was cooking in a "fine dining" restaurant as sort of "acting saucier" (a few months only and not much qualification anyway, is it?) I used clarified because that's what I was taught. (I actually quit that job because they wanted to make me saucier for real)

When I was catering, I made a ton of Hollandaise, Bernaise, etc., and used ghee (clarified butter with a toasty taste) because of the flavor profile; but I didn't hold over heat, I held in a thermos. FWIW, the thermos method ROCKS.

On the rare occasions now when I make Hollandaise or one of its derivatives, I usually mount whole, cold butter because it involves less planning ahead. Not a great reason, but there you go. 


> When making a beurre blanc, if you want it more stable you add cream. The same thing with a vinaigrette. Are there flaws in my reasoning?


To start with, nomenclature. Beurre blanc with cream is not beurre blanc, it's beurre Nantais. I'm not sure what you call a vinaigrette with cream -- "creamy Caesar" perhaps, but not "vinaigrette." But what's in a name?

The fact that you (or least I) cannot stabilize a Hollandaise by adding cream or milk because they won't emulsify into it goes more to the point that "milk solids" don't add much stability.

Just some thoughts,

BDL


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## duckfat (Aug 7, 2008)

I bet I can stabilize that sauce with instant clearjel.....MWAHAHAHA

Dave


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

WOW. It amazes me just how much you all use hollandaise that it's going on this long for so many pages.


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

I drink it like a milkshake man. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smoking.gif


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## foodpump (Oct 10, 2005)

Used the Knorr holly waaay back in the early 80's.  Swiiss Army provisions got it for free (on or past the expiry date)m from the factory and fobbed it off on the cooks' corp.   Came in 250 ml tetra boxes.  Bomb proof, that stuff.  You could cook it--no boil it-- over a paaffin burner, or use it as a base for salad dressing.  One box + 1 liter of oil and 1/4 liter vinegar.

And after that, I never, EVER used it again..........


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

It is less expensive to make real Hollandaise then buy this junk.


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## cheflayne (Aug 21, 2004)

boar_d_laze said:


> To start with, nomenclature. Beurre blanc with cream is not beurre blanc, it's beurre Nantais.


In classical French culinary terms that is correct, but it is like the whole morphed demi thing. I didn't want to bore people with the details. My bad.

Edit: tsk tsk Layne. (kuan)


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## chesco (May 14, 2012)

I agree


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

> I agree


To what?

BDL


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## chefzoneau (Jun 21, 2012)

Im a purist and I say if its good don't change it , I also say if your Hollandaise recipe has less or more ingredients than the recipe below

Its simply not Hollandaise 

HOLLANDAISE RECIPE FROM 1903 Escoffier Le Guide Culinaire

Hollandaise is made by simultaneously whisking and heating egg yolks, lemon juice, and a little water and then slowly blending in butter until a creamy and rich sauce is produced. It is seasoned with salt and sometimes black or red pepper. It is decadently delicious and pairs well with eggs, steak, fish and vegetables.

The first recorded hollandaise sauce was published in France in the 1600's but undoubtedly it existed for some time before that. There are a variety of explanations for how the sauce was named; the common denominator being the rich butter and dairy products that Holland was famous for. 

 Hollandaise is the minefield of the culinary world. Step a little out of line and it blows up in your face. It's tricky because it's an emulsified sauce and if you're not careful, specifically about minding the heat level, the sauce can break. 

6 egg yolks

1 tablespoon water

1-2 tablespoons lemon juice

1 lb. unsalted butter, melted*

Salt and pepper to taste

Cayenne pepper, to taste (optional)

 Place a stainless steel bowl over a pot with a few inches of water in it. Ensure that the bowl is not actually touching the water in the pot. Heat the water to a very gentle simmer whereby it is just barely steaming. Add the egg yolks, water and lemon juice to the bowl and begin constantly whisking until the eggs are frothy and you start to see ribbons in them left by the whisk. If at any point they appear to be cooking too quickly or solidifying do not hesitate to remove the bowl from the pot to cool down. When the eggs are frothy turn off the heat. Leave the bowl over the pot and use the residual heat from this point on. Begin adding the melted butter very slowly, incessantly whisking. If at any point it looks like the sauce is breaking, (as evidenced by oily melted butter forming around the edge or on top of the sauce), immediately remove the pan from the heat, add a small splash of cold water and whisk like mad. When the butter is fully incorporated, add salt and pepper. Also assess for additional lemon juice. 

 Hollandaise can be tricky to store without breaking. It must be kept warm but not too hot. But that's more of a restaurant problem. At home, just serve it immediately and avoid any additional complications. 

 Many chefs prefer clarified butter. To do so, substitute 12 oz. clarified butter in the above recipe but increase the water from 1 to 4 tablespoons.

Shallot, vinegar, and particularly the herb tarragon are incorporated into a hollandaise to make béarnaise sauce.


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

I realize that this discussion may be dead, but it pops up on the ChefTalk website as one of the top "most active" current threads -- which tells you something about that little engine. In any event:


> *Sauce Hollandaise. - *Réduire de deux tiers 4 cuillerées d'eau et 2 cuillerées de vinaigre, additionnées d'une pincée de mignonette et d'une pincée de sel fin. Retirer sur le côté du feu ou placer la casserole au bain-marie.
> 
> Ajouter une cuillerée d'eau et 5 jaunes d'œufs ; monter la sauce avec 500 grammes de beurre cru ou fondu en l'additionnant, pendant le montage, de 3 ou 4 cuillerées d'eau, mises par petites parties : addition qui a pour but de donner de la légèreté à la sauce.
> 
> ...


This is the first edition of the _Guide_ that I could get access to quickly.

For those interested, he says much the same about Béarnaise, from which recipe (p. 29) I excerpt:


> … monter la sauce à feu doux, avec 500 grammes de beurre cru (ou fondu à l'avance) en fouettant légèrement.
> 
> La liaison de la sauce se produit par la cuisson progressive des jaunes d'œufs ;d'où nécessité absolue de traiter la sauce Béarnaise à feu doux. …
> 
> Nota. - Il est inutile de songer à servir très chaude cette sauce qui est, en somme, une Mayonnaise au beurre. Il suffit qu'elle soit tiède et, d'ailleurs, si elle est trop chauffée, elle se décompose.


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## Iceman (Jan 4, 2011)

_Thanks *Chris*_, for posting that information in _French_. It's so very useful that way.  _(Big_ *"LOL"* _here. I'm joking.)_


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## kuan (Jun 11, 2001)

Sure, thanks for the snarky comments, now help us out and translate it already!


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## chrislehrer (Oct 9, 2008)

Hey -- I honestly had no intention to be snarky. There was a whole back-and-forth about what Escoffier actually said, and some people referred to the French text, but nobody gave the original. So I posted it.

To translate, I have to insert some interpretation of what I think Escoffier was trying to get at. Others might disagree. Nevertheless, leaping in where angels fear to tread, the crucial bits:


> "monter la sauce avec 500 grammes de beurre cru ou fondu"
> 
> mount the sauce with 500g of raw or melted butter
> 
> ...


As I read Escoffier's directions, the point is to mount the sauce with 500g of butter. The issue at hand, of whether one should use whole or clarified butter, doesn't seem to be on his radar. My take on Escoffier here is that he's not especially doctrinaire: it would depend on what you have in mind for the sauce, what sort of effect you want, etc. But that's my view of what Escoffier generally does.

Seriously, I didn't mean to cause trouble. I genuinely thought I was being helpful!


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## kippers (Aug 31, 2012)

foodpump said:


> Used the Knorr holly waaay back in the early 80's. Swiiss Army provisions got it for free (on or past the expiry date)m from the factory and fobbed it off on the cooks' corp. Came in 250 ml tetra boxes. Bomb proof, that stuff. You could cook it--no boil it-- over a paaffin burner, or use it as a base for salad dressing. One box + 1 liter of oil and 1/4 liter vinegar.
> 
> And after that, I never, EVER used it again..........


You should revisit after all me and Marco Pierre White swear by certain Knorr products.http://www.marcopierrewhite.org/


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## kippers (Aug 31, 2012)

ChrisLehrer said:


> Hey -- I honestly had no intention to be snarky. There was a whole back-and-forth about what Escoffier actually said, and some people referred to the French text, but nobody gave the original. So I posted it.
> 
> To translate, I have to insert some interpretation of what I think Escoffier was trying to get at. Others might disagree. Nevertheless, leaping in where angels fear to tread, the crucial bits:
> 
> ...





ChrisLehrer said:


> Hey -- I honestly had no intention to be snarky. There was a whole back-and-forth about what Escoffier actually said, and some people referred to the French text, but nobody gave the original. So I posted it.
> 
> To translate, I have to insert some interpretation of what I think Escoffier was trying to get at. Others might disagree. Nevertheless, leaping in where angels fear to tread, the crucial bits:
> 
> ...


I took it that way, I have never heard of mounting butter, The French term is Monte au Buerre or to emulsify butter into a warm sauce.

I dont bother with a ballon whisk any more . I only make hollandaise in the summer using unsalted summer alpine butter heated in a pan and dribbled into a slow running liquidiser that contains very fresh egg yolks ect.I do try hard to leave most of the sediment in the pan.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

Mounting is used in USA as French is not spoken in most kitchens.  Never new Hollandaise was seasonal?


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## flipflopgirl (Jun 27, 2012)

Had a great comeback for you, ed.

Proofed and deleted as I am working hard not to be such a smart***

;-)

mimi


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## berndy (Sep 18, 2010)

I don't understand the remark about a Hollandaise to be seasonal /img/vbsmilies/smilies/confused.gif


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## kippers (Aug 31, 2012)

For me it a summer season sauce for two reasons. The first is that I associate the sauce with poached fresh wild Scottish Salmon, Welsh Sewyn and Cheshire Asparagus.The second is that the summer butter I use has a deep yellow colour this also applies to the egg yolks.Winter butter over here can be so pale its almost white and because the cows are fed on hay etc indoors IMO its not as tasty.


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## chefedb (Apr 3, 2010)

As you said" For Me "" this is your opinion only  Don't tell your customers this.


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## bigtoedave (Oct 12, 2012)

my personal method is to 'half' clarify the butter. melt the butter in a pan, bring to the boil and simmer for a minute or two (not very long). and leave to cool for a bit-this is essential, remove the scum and use the remains in the sauce. i also like quite a thick sabayon. i find this makes a nice thick sauce. This is my individual way, you could write books on hollandaise sauce and chefs opinions and methods.


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## chefzoneau (Jun 21, 2012)

to clarify or not to clarify ? lol


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