# Do I need this??



## duckfat33 (Oct 21, 2011)

OK...."need" is a fairly abstract term when it comes to a knife hobby.

But I am very interested in trying out some new knives. Just don't want to be duplicating. I already have 3 gyutos (Konosuke, Yoshikane, Sakai Yusuke), a cheapish stainless deba, a white steel nakiri and a Masamoto sujihiki. Enjoy using all of them.

My questions are these:

1) Is there any point in trying out a Chinese cleaver, or is it going to be fairly similar to my nakiri?

2) I was thinking of getting a better deba, and was looking at the Takeda. However, I notice that it is double bevelled. Can I use it at all like a proper deba? Does anyone out there have a Takeda deba?

3) Is there any point to a kiritsuke, or does it just look cool?


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## lennyd (Dec 3, 2010)

I think you already know the answers to your questions, and possibly even the outcome 

That said I think since you already have a nice assortment of gyuto's and a fair sampling of others why not add a cleaver?

Only real thought I had when reading your post was that it seems like you prefer some of the better or more highly regarded knives and how this would translate to the level of clever you would purchase.

I know when I first got into J knives I did so at an affordable level planning that I could always update to more expensive knives in the future if I was happy or impressed etc (which is exactly what happened BTW) and if it were me I would be looking at one of the inexpensive cleaver's like so many talk about finding at local Chinese grocery stores etc. as this would allow you to find out exactly what you think of using one without enough investment that it really matters.

Since a cleaver is something I have been considering myself since I found out I really do not have anything I like for chopping or splitting heavy stuff or bones etc due to the fact that the one I have that is from an old inexpensive set that though is "decent" because it was Japanese etc it is just too thin for the heavier jobs, and now I am looking at either a heavier cleaver or some old 10" woostie chefs etc. but like you I question if I really need a cleaver.

When looking at the attractive ones in the $150+ range I immediately say PASS as it is too much unless your just collecting etc and the low end ones seem to make more sense overall.

Then again for my intended use a old carbon "brute" that's been laying around in someones garage for years may actually be a better choice, but from what your telling us above I think you are looking at the opposite end and also think you may be right that it would be competing with your nakiri and ultimately it will be up to you to decide if you want to add to the use range of your set, or just add to your collection, or even if the Chinese cleaver or the nakiri would be better for your use.

Sorry but I do not have any experience or input on the others except that I agree that the kiritsuke from many mfg does look like a nice piece, but honestly have never seriously thought about getting one.


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## johnr (Aug 5, 2011)

Yep a bit of duplication there, but if you are into it as a hobby then "need" is probably not a consideration.

For 95%+ of my prep work I use a 10 in. Chef's (8 in. at home), a serrated bread knife, a Y peeler, and a pocket knife with a 3 inch blade.

I have a Chinese Cleaver and other knives but I couldn't tell you the last time I used them.

I believe most Chinese Cleavers are not bone hacking knifes. Most I believe are lighter and intended to be used for dicing and juliening veggies and meat. I use mine on occasion to get through the back of poultry for a Spatchcock prep or fish bones but not much heavier use than that. I also have a Forschner 8 in. Breaking knife which is more appropriate to use on heavier prep work-for example portioning whole racks of pork ribs.


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## boar_d_laze (Feb 13, 2008)

I'm not sure Lenny was comparing a heavy duty meat cleaver to a Chinese chopper, but was saying that he wanted a hd cleaver --- but wasn't sure if he needed one or not.  I've got three heavy duty knives including a serious, old CC carbon cleaver -- and almost never use it.  Good cleavers, even Forschners are expensive; and I doubt most people will find them worth the price. 

If you do decide to get a cleaver, the rule is lean on it, but don't whack with it.  If you whack, you'll destroy your board. 

Re the Chinese chopper -- YES, by all means.  At the end of the day you may not like it or have an enduring use for it, but a lot of people -- say about 1/4 - 1/3 -- fall in love, go to the dark side and never really come back.  I'm one of the ones who didn't get seduced, but still...  It's just one of those things you should try out for first, because you'll never know until you do. 

The conventional wisdom is to start with a Dexter Green River or one of the lighter CCKs.  My try was with a pass-along Green River which I duly passed along and no longer have. 

In terms of practical knives for western style cooking, I don't think a deba is really worthwhile.  Any number of western knives will do a better job without introducing the complications that go with chisel/hamaguri edges.  Same for the kiritsuke.  If you're into Japanese styles, collecting, or even just serious fooling around -- go ahead.  But in terms of making a positive difference in your regular cooking... probably not.

BDL


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## pohaku (Jul 11, 2011)

If you want a reasonably priced cleaver for heavier work, the CCK Bone Chopper works very well and is very reasonably priced I have a slightly different stainless steel version of this model that I bought in Chinatown in Honolulu and find I use it more than my heavier German chef's knives for splitting chickens, cutting ribs, etc.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/cckbonechopper.html

The small CCK cleaver is also an excellent knife, and works very well for many kitchen tasks once you get use to it. Not for cutting through bones though. CKtG also sells the small cleaver with a upgraded handles if you are concerned about such things. I just use the stock one and slip a cheap Dexter guard over the edge. I still have my Chinese grandmother's cleaver and it really isn't much different (although it is considerably more used and beat up). I gave the small CCK cleaver to friends and relatives as a holiday gift a couple years ago and many of them (admittedly not all) really loved it.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/cckcleaver2.html


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## lennyd (Dec 3, 2010)

BDL you read me correctly.

I am better understanding the use for a "Chinese" cleaver etc. but still always seem to think of the really heavy types that I have seen used since a child for everything from cutting up frozen bait to separating ribs etc.

On a personal side note I am having a problem of thinking beyond this new Konosuke when it comes to veggies (and more actually) but have always used a Chef type knife so it could also just be what I am used to, and guess I could find that I might like a Chinese cleaver if I tried again I think I have more than enough invested in this already and better stick to what I have for a while, and things do improve to a point that there is some extra cash burning a hole in my pocket it would more likely end up someplace other than a knife. Maybe a trip to Vegas would more rewarding lol.


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