# Why people have no taste



## kuan

I figured it out today, at least in the US. Kids grow up eating school cafeteria food, bad, cafeteria food. They then eat bad college cafeteria food. Do we really want our kids growing up like this?

Jeez... no wonder. 

Rant over.


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## brianshaw

You should come stay with my family for a while to see the complete antithesis of your rant!

While we eat some “junk food” out of necessity due to schedules... it’s not the norm nor are school cafeterias all that influential.


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## kuan

So school just started, my kid just spent $10 on food he could not eat.


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## phatch

My kids quickly decided to take a lunch which they soon learned to pack themselves.


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## brianshaw

kuan said:


> So school just started, my kid just spent $10 on food he could not eat.


Mine too... he did that only once. Live and learn!


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## halb

School cafeterias usually gravitate to what the majority of kids will eat. Remember OBama's wife and her campaign to bring healthy foods to school cafeterias? Most kids wouldn't eat anything and the food would up in the garbage- as did her school lunch program. 

Don't forget too that kids are picky eaters or have a down right food aversion. They get that way from bad parenting- "no, you don't like that? Here, let me make you something else." If parents had dinner at the same time every night, everybody came to the table WITHOUT their electronic devices, coloring books, etc. and everybody got the same meal kids would learn to eat a more varied diet. 

If they refuse to eat they are not given any other choice. After a couple of weeks betcha they will eat anything. :rofl: That's the way I was brought up.


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## brianshaw

School lunch programs also gravitate to their skimpy budgets.


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## dectra

kuan said:


> I figured it out today, at least in the US. Kids grow up eating school cafeteria food, bad, cafeteria food. They then eat bad college cafeteria food. Do we really want our kids growing up like this?
> 
> Jeez... no wonder.
> 
> Rant over.


In my book, there are two issues, One, the fact so many folks smoke / vape is a part of the problem. Having smoked when I was younger, I know first hand how all food taste 'different' after you've had a few puffs. Secondly, folks "accept" mediocre food (see McDonald's and their ilk) and consider that to be acceptable / or "good food". If a person only eats crap, that's what is normal for them.


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## rittenremedy

brianshaw said:


> School lunch programs also gravitate to their skimpy budgets.


This forum needs a "too sad to like but true" button.



dectra said:


> In my book, there are two issues, One, the fact so many folks smoke / vape is a part of the problem. Having smoked when I was younger, I know first hand how all food taste 'different' after you've had a few puffs. Secondly, folks "accept" mediocre food (see McDonald's and their ilk) and consider that to be acceptable / or "good food". If a person only eats crap, that's what is normal for them.


Growing up in the Midwest and around military, that's what I see a lot too. It's gotten to where, when someone recommends me a restaurant, I check reviews for the words "you get a lot."

My dad says I'm spoiled I guess because I like actual pumpkins more than pumpkin spiced lattes, but I like a good burger just as much. It's just gotta actually be cooked well.


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## chrislehrer

halb said:


> School cafeterias usually gravitate to what the majority of kids will eat. Remember OBama's wife and her campaign to bring healthy foods to school cafeterias? Most kids wouldn't eat anything and the food would up in the garbage- as did her school lunch program.


Yes, but consider what would happen if the schools, as a matter of policy, announced that no kid in the class goes to recess until every kid has finished one serving of the complete healthy meal. They do that in Japan, for instance, and it works because the parents support it. 


> Don't forget too that kids are picky eaters or have a down right food aversion. They get that way from bad parenting- "no, you don't like that? Here, let me make you something else." If parents had dinner at the same time every night, everybody came to the table WITHOUT their ...


Most meals in the US are eaten alone and/or in a moving vehicle. Everyone sitting down to dinner together is something that happens less than once per month, on average.

My point: we have rotten taste in food because as a society we don't care whether our food is any good.


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## iridium12

halb said:


> School cafeterias usually gravitate to what the majority of kids will eat. Remember OBama's wife and her campaign to bring healthy foods to school cafeterias? Most kids wouldn't eat anything and the food would up in the garbage- as did her school lunch program.
> 
> Don't forget too that kids are picky eaters or have a down right food aversion. They get that way from bad parenting- "no, you don't like that? Here, let me make you something else." If parents had dinner at the same time every night, everybody came to the table WITHOUT their electronic devices, coloring books, etc. and everybody got the same meal kids would learn to eat a more varied diet.
> 
> If they refuse to eat they are not given any other choice. After a couple of weeks betcha they will eat anything. :rofl: That's the way I was brought up.


That is the way I grew up - family always sat down at 8, every night (except Sunday when we started earlier as it was mostly roast day)
And in regards to what you ate - whatever ended on the table

I remember my own rebellious phase when I decided that I did not want what was on the table - my mother just shrugged her shoulders, pointed to the kitchen and said - then make yourself something else. But the kitchen better look exactly the same after your done...


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## halb

My three nieces come to visit a couple of times a year for a week, ages 14, 11 and 9. Food is always a battle. The oldest one asked if she could bring her friend next time then added "you probably won't like her because she only eats mac & cheese and bread". 

My brother-in law and his wife took the three of them along on a cruise last year. It got so bad that the chief came to the table and offered to make them anything if they would only eat. 

What the hell is wrong with parents these days???


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## chrislehrer

By way of contrast, I asked my son what he wanted for his 10th birthday dinner:

Trout meunière
Buttered peas
Pommes macaire
Home-baked bread

He didn't care about dessert: "Ice cream is nice" was his remark. He got ice cream filled profiteroles with chocolate sauce. But it was the trout that he really cared about.


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## toddhicks209

kuan said:


> I figured it out today, at least in the US. Kids grow up eating school cafeteria food, bad, cafeteria food. They then eat bad college cafeteria food. Do we really want our kids growing up like this?
> 
> Jeez... no wonder.
> 
> Rant over.


At least college students have more of a choice of what to eat for breakfast and lunch.


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## rittenremedy

halb said:


> My three nieces come to visit a couple of times a year for a week, ages 14, 11 and 9. Food is always a battle. The oldest one asked if she could bring her friend next time then added "you probably won't like her because she only eats mac & cheese and bread".
> 
> My brother-in law and his wife took the three of them along on a cruise last year. It got so bad that the chief came to the table and offered to make them anything if they would only eat.
> 
> What the hell is wrong with parents these days???


I'm really impressed(?) by the chef's customer service. If they didn't want to eat... whatever I would have served on an expensive pleasure cruise... I'd have let them starve. Not even dessert??

I grew up in a household that wasn't allowed to leave the table without an empty plate. My grandmother was a child in the south during the Great Depression. My brother figured out that if he threw the food from his plate, he could sneak back to the kitchen at night, climb onto the counter, and eat the sugar cubes. I wasn't that smart. But then again, I'm also the only child to go to college. I don't think my parents were bad parents, just on the losing side of a battle between clean plates and clean walls. Oddly enough, I'm fat and my brother is super athletic. Must have been the climbing...


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## chefross

To say the least, those good ol' days are no more.
It is now a rarity for a family to sit down together and enjoy a meal without electronics or technology.

The reality is that how we were raised is quite different than today. 
We repeatedly express a collective sigh because we miss it

One could argue that the family meal was a good time for family to talk and have a special time together each and every day, however; today we have one-parent families, we have work schedules, ballet, band, sports, and all the rest that makes sitting down at the dinner table a thing of the past. Not to mention the time it takes to cook and serve a meal.
The evening meal has definitely evolved.


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## chefross

To say the least, those good ol' days are no more.
It is now a rarity for a family to sit down together and enjoy a meal without electronics or technology.

The reality is that how we were raised is quite different than today. 
We repeatedly express a collective sigh because we miss it

One could argue that the family meal was a good time for family to talk and have a special time together each and every day, however; today we have one-parent families, we have work schedules, ballet, band, sports, and all the rest that makes sitting down at the dinner table a thing of the past. Not to mention the time it takes to cook and serve a meal.
The evening meal has definitely evolved.


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## brianshaw

You can say that again!


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## peachcreek

Where my kids went to school there was a major reworking of the school lunch program to get away from the traditional-style 'ketchup is a vegetable' and frozen waffles with fake syrup rule the morning. The State, and with it the local school district implemented a much better service and moved towards 'farm to table'. For $3.50? The school lunch is one of the better deals around these days.


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## halb

chefross said:


> To say the least, those good ol' days are no more.
> It is now a rarity for a family to sit down together and enjoy a meal without electronics or technology.
> 
> The reality is that how we were raised is quite different than today.
> We repeatedly express a collective sigh because we miss it
> 
> One could argue that the family meal was a good time for family to talk and have a special time together each and every day, however; today we have one-parent families, we have work schedules, ballet, band, sports, and all the rest that makes sitting down at the dinner table a thing of the past. Not to mention the time it takes to cook and serve a meal.
> The evening meal has definitely evolved.


If parents WANTED to have the traditional dinner meal they would do it. Extracurricular activities, work schedules, etc. are just an excuse. It just depends on where parents set their priorities and learning to say no. Thing is most parents are second generation to this crap, they were treated the same way themselves so they just don't know any better.

Kids have to be taught how to eat just like they must be taught most other things. If parents think that sports are more important then proper nutrition there is something very wrong with their parenting skills.


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## rittenremedy

halb said:


> ... sports are more important then proper nutrition...


Looking at our national health the last 40 years, I can see how people would be confused at that.


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## dc1346

halb said:


> School cafeterias usually gravitate to what the majority of kids will eat. Remember OBama's wife and her campaign to bring healthy foods to school cafeterias? Most kids wouldn't eat anything and the food would up in the garbage- as did her school lunch program.
> .


I'm a chef instructor at a rural high school. I don't entirely agree with your answer. The production of decent cafeteria food was really hurt by the Healthy Hunger Free Kids Act which mandated low sodium, whole grain, no frying, and the use of lots of fruits and vegetables. Any school that expects to receive Federal funding for free or reduced school lunches must abide by Federal requirements.

It doesn't help that school cafeteria workers are among the lowest paid members of the food service industry. Although school cafeterias COULD make everything from scratch, many simply don't have sufficient trained personnel to do so. Even if these cafeterias had sufficient cooks, the average budget per meal is $2.93 and the meal must meet Federal nutritional guidelines under the Healthy Hunger Free Kids Act.

To be candid, it's a lot easier for most cafeteria managers to just buy processed heat and serve foods. This worked out great for me at another school because they surplussed a stand mixer which I picked up for my Culinary Arts kitchen.

You are right regarding the amount of wastage. The food is bland and boring and kids who are reasonably affluent either go off campus to eat (provided this is allowed at their school) or they bring sack lunches from home.

Kids who eat school lunches are often forced to take fruits and vegetables that they don't want because if the cafeteria can document that these foods are being served, they get more money from the Feds. The Feds apparently don't care whether or not anyone actually EATS the fruits and vegetables that are being passed out ... and quite frankly I've been appalled to see perfectly good grapes, apple slices, and other items being tossed out.

Although the Federal legislation regarding school lunches was well intended, like all too many Federal programs, the Healthy Hunger Free Kids Act has had unintended consequences.

I personally think that the government has no business mandating healthy meals. Low income students were much better off when they were served food that they would actually eat.


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## halb

So the Healthy Hunger Free Kids Act is still with us? I thought it was tossed out. That's the thing about laws, once they are passed you can't get rid of them.


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## dc1346

halb said:


> So the Healthy Hunger Free Kids Act is still with us? I thought it was tossed out. That's the thing about laws, once they are passed you can't get rid of them.


Yep. It's still with us. Anyone who wants Federal funding for free or reduced meals along with donated groceries from the USDA must comply with the Hunger Free Kids Act.

It's appalling how much food is getting dumped.

One of the unintended consequences is that kids who refuse to eat the school lunches are snacking in their respective classrooms. They're primarily snacking on junk food which is what the Feds DIDN'T want the kids to do.

Crumbs from junk food that aren't swept up either by the classroom teacher or the night custodian are also contributing to on-going pest issues in some schools.


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## halb

dc1346 said:


> One of the unintended consequences is that kids who refuse to eat the school lunches are snacking in their respective classrooms. They're primarily snacking on junk food which is what the Feds DIDN'T want the kids to do.


You give the feds way too much credit. "Unintended consequences"? No, the Hunger Free Kids Act was a way to create a legacy for Michelle OBama. That kids refused to eat the required food and there are roaches crawling around the classrooms are of no consequence, not unintended.


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## chefross

Back to the original topic. Being a Chef makes it hard to go out to dine without being judgmental of the place.
I have dined at many places with mediocre (at best) food, yet the place is busy all the time.

Since food is so subjective, and many people are "food ignorant" that they simply accept what's put down in front of them.

I dined out last night and ordered a Filet with "Oscar topping." Asparagus spears, lump crab meat and Hollandaise sauce.
The filet was cooked perfectly but the crab meat was in the first stage of going bad. 

If you've worked with food enough your sense of smell is highly educated to detect those nuances.

I shoveled it aside but told the server. 
How many people would have eaten that crab without evening knowing it was bad?
Even breakfast with overcooked eggs and omelettes, under cooked anemic hash browns and burnt toast...the place is packed.
Go figure it out....


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## dectra

halb said:


> You give the feds way too much credit. "Unintended consequences"? No, the Hunger Free Kids Act was a way to create a legacy for Michelle Obama. That kids refused to eat the required food and there are roaches crawling around the classrooms are of no consequence, not unintended.


Your obvious political bias not withstanding, Do your REALLY think offering fruits and veggies in place of Junk Food is unacceptable? Kids, like adults, have changing tastes, and if they never get exposed to anything other than "heat and serve" salt laden food, they'll only have one future: FAT.

As to the "roaches" in classrooms....how is that related to cooking in another part of the building? Is cooking or food prep done in the classroom? If not, the "roach" issue is not connected to the issue at hand.


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## Seoul Food

peachcreek said:


> Where my kids went to school there was a major reworking of the school lunch program to get away from the traditional-style 'ketchup is a vegetable' and frozen waffles with fake syrup rule the morning. The State, and with it the local school district implemented a much better service and moved towards 'farm to table'. For $3.50? The school lunch is one of the better deals around these days.


This would be nice at my kid's school. The lunches there are almost $3 and they just rotate pizza, french toast sticks, chicken fingers, mac and cheese and the like.


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## Seoul Food

dectra said:


> Your obvious political bias not withstanding, Do your REALLY think offering fruits and veggies in place of Junk Food is unacceptable? Kids, like adults, have changing tastes, and if they never get exposed to anything other than "heat and serve" salt laden food, they'll only have one future: FAT.
> 
> As to the "roaches" in classrooms....how is that related to cooking in another part of the building? Is cooking or food prep done in the classroom? If not, the "roach" issue is not connected to the issue at hand.


I think offering fruits and vegetables is great but unfortunately there are a couple of big hurdles with that. One is that the cost of serving these types of items is way higher than what they were currently using. Add to that you need more skilled labor to produce these items without ruining them. (It does take a little more skill cooking vegetables properly rather than opening a #10 can and throwing them in the oven until they turn gray.) The other issue I believe would be that while it may take continued exposure to these items to slowly add them to the children's diets, the school is in the hard position of trying to feed and give some nutrition to these children but also make it healthy.

So what would be better or worse, feeding children foods that they like and will eat that are not as nutritionally balanced so they can be full and pay attention at school or feed children foods they may not like/aren't used to which are better for them nutritionally with the hopes that they will eat it with the possible side consequence being hungry kids who cannot concentrate through the rest of the day.


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## halb

dectra said:


> Your obvious political bias not withstanding, Do your REALLY think offering fruits and veggies in place of Junk Food is unacceptable? Kids, like adults, have changing tastes, and if they never get exposed to anything other than "heat and serve" salt laden food, they'll only have one future: FAT.


No, I don't think offering fruits and veggies in place of junk food is unacceptable but what difference does it make if they won't eat them? Tell me how it should be a schools responsibility to teach kids how to eat? As I said above, it all begins at home and if parents won't teach their kids to to eat properly what do you think is going to happen at school?


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## cheflayne

> As I said above, it all begins at home and if parents won't teach their kids to to eat properly what do you think is going to happen at school?


I learned the basics of reading and writing at home before I ever went to school; however school helped me to expand my knowledge on those subjects. I learned the basics of a balanced diet at home before I ever went to school, but why shouldn't schools attempt to contribute to expanding a child's food knowledge. If my food knowledge was limited to what I learned at home, I probably wouldn't be a chef today and my diet wuldn't be near as healthy as it is! Knowledge comes from many sources, not just from home. Institutions of education should be interested in expanding knowledge in as many subjects as they possibly can. Schools are not meant to replace what is learned at home. but to supplement it and to help a child expand his mind.


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## Seoul Food

cheflayne said:


> I learned the basics of reading and writing at home before I ever went to school; however school helped me to expand my knowledge on those subjects. I learned the basics of a balanced diet at home before I ever went to school, but why shouldn't schools attempt to contribute to expanding a child's food knowledge. If my food knowledge was limited to what I learned at home, I probably wouldn't be a chef today and my diet wuldn't be near as healthy as it is! Knowledge comes from many sources, not just from home. Institutions of education should be interested in expanding knowledge in as many subjects as they possibly can. Schools are not meant to replace what is learned at home. but to supplement it and to help a child expand his mind.


The school I went to had classes focused specifically on food, cooking and baking. The schools are already so tight on budgets and fitting in all of the curriculum that it stands to reason that they have to choose subjects like math and science over food nutrition and proper diet. It also shouldn't be the school that tells the students what to eat or not to eat. The goal of the lunch period is to ensure that the majority of students there eat something.

Also with so many students being on a free breakfast and lunch program, I'm sure they aren't eating the best at home so the food they are getting is most likely food they are used to or already getting. We also have to understand that if a student only gets a lunch at school there are many other meals they are not which are being served in the home. It doesn't matter if we force feed them greens and fruits during one meal of the day if all of the others they are getting are processed crap.


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## cheflayne

> The schools are already so tight on budgets and fitting in all of the curriculum that it stands to reason that they have to choose subjects like math and science over food nutrition and proper diet.


Not all education takes place in the classroom.



> It doesn't matter if we force feed them greens and fruits during one meal of the day if all of the others they are getting are processed crap.


If all the kids do at home is spend time on their cell phones, video games, and TV, why bother teaching them math and science?


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## dectra

Seoul Food said:


> So what would be better or worse, feeding children foods that they like and will eat that are not as nutritionally balanced so they can be full and pay attention at school or feed children foods they may not like/aren't used to which are better for them nutritionally with the hopes that they will eat it with the possible side consequence being hungry kids who cannot concentrate through the rest of the day.


I agree, there is no 'easy solution' here. That being said, giving them something that is clearly not nutritious in place of giving them something that *may* spark their interest / taste buds, I'd favor the latter. The training issue you raise is also clearly an issue; some folks are not doing this to learn or evolve as a professional; to far too many it's the paycheck that is the focus.


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## dectra

halb said:


> No, I don't think offering fruits and veggies in place of junk food is unacceptable but what difference does it make if they won't eat them? Tell me how it should be a schools responsibility to teach kids how to eat? As I said above, it all begins at home and if parents won't teach their kids to to eat properly what do you think is going to happen at school?


It makes a difference in the following way: if you DO NOT offer healthy alternatives the eating habits of kids will NEVER change. I know too many parents who don't ask their kids to "try" something once or twice; who cave in and give them glorified McDonald's crap that masquerades as "food" just so they won't have to convince their children to broaden their pallets.

Call me an optimist, but if you never know what else is out there, you're never going to experience it.....


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## Seoul Food

cheflayne said:


> If all the kids do at home is spend time on their cell phones, video games, and TV, why bother teaching them math and science?


Well that's because it's usually mandated by law for both child attendance to said school and the learning material through state or federal guidelines and programs. I don't know of any educational laws that mandate learning proper nutrition and eating.


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## cheflayne

> Well that's because it's usually mandated by law for both child attendance to said school and the learning material through state or federal guidelines and programs.


My question was rhetorical in nature.


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## halb

dectra said:


> I know too many parents who don't ask their kids to "try" something once or twice; who cave in and give them glorified McDonald's crap that masquerades as "food" just so they won't have to convince their children to broaden their pallets.


Parenting 101: You don't ASK you TELL. And if they won't eat what you put in front of them they don't eat. You'll see how fast they "broaden their pallets". Parents need to be parents NOT their kid's friends!


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## Seoul Food

halb said:


> Parenting 101: You don't ASK you TELL. And if they won't eat what you put in front of them they don't eat. You'll see how fast they "broaden their pallets". Parents need to be parents NOT their kid's friends!


Yup, they'll get hungry enough eventually, and they say hunger is the best spice.


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## halb

Then again if there were more school cafeterias like this, just maybe kids might want to eat better.
https://www.fermag.com/articles/8634-the-trevian-way


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## Seoul Food

halb said:


> Then again if there were more school cafeterias like this, just maybe kids might want to eat better.
> https://www.fermag.com/articles/8634-the-trevian-way


Looks nice. We'll see how it holds up in the long run. But I think the phrase "well-to-do suburb area" about sums it up for why this would even have a chance of succeeding. In our state our public schools are having a hard enough time employing good full time teachers to lower the classroom rate of student to teacher, updating learning materials, and other basic school functions. Unfortunately a large proportion of the student body is on a free meal program along with parents needing to send boxes of supplies at the beginning of each school year with basic items that should already be available. While it would be nice to have a coffee shop and vegan or ethnic dishes served university style I just don't see a major switch to that anytime soon with our current situations.


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## halb

I agree. That's only a dream for most school districts.


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