# Vintage Sabatier vs. Global?



## jalabee (Apr 26, 2004)

I'm in the market for a new chef's knife, and have narrowed it down to two: a vintage au carbone Sabatier and a Global stainless steel. 

Any preferences out there?

Thanks!


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

All of my Sabatiers are at least 25-30 years old and therefore surface pitted due to metallurgy. They hold and take an edge quite easily and I wouldn't trade them for anything. Althought I've handled Globals without using them, I'll still take my Sabatiers. And do yourself a favor, avoid purchasing the new Sabatiers; the metal acts like low quality stainless steel. You can find old ones at ebay.


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## suzanne (May 26, 2001)

Which one feels more comfortable in your hand? To me, that's the deciding factor. Sabatier require more care; Global is more likely to be "borrowed unbidden and not returned." Both have good and bad points (pun intended). Whatever fits your style of knife use is the better one for you. Hold them, try them out if you can, and base your decision on YOUR reaction.


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

The only extra care Sabatiers require is that they be wiped clean immediately after each usage.


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## suzanne (May 26, 2001)

Quite true; and that's a lot more than some folks do to care for their knives.


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## chefboy2160 (Oct 13, 2001)

Hey kokopuffs,what is your opinion on these new Sabatiers on this link http://www.cutlery.com/default.shtml . I was considering the purchase of one of these carbon chef knifes but would appreciate your oppinion! thanks , Doug.............


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## chef dave (May 2, 2004)

I have a full set of Globals, and I love them.....they are very comfortable and aren't SOO heavy that they cause fatigue over a full day's use. They hold they're edge well, but beware that if you lose it, it can be a bit of a pain to get back. And I've never had a problem with my knives "growing legs" and dissapearing, but then again I'm the teacher...students would generally be ill-advised to steal the chef's knives.


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## chefboy2160 (Oct 13, 2001)

Chef Dave, I also saw this same line in Bourdaines book Kitchen Confidential and I do not understand what you are saying by fatigue from a heavy knife.
I dont understand fatigue from using a knife unless it is not fitting your hand or it is not sharp?I have been using forschners for the last 10 years and the reason I have is they stay sharp with minimul steeling and they seem to fit my hand comfortably(also they are cheap). I have never seen a Global but I hear a lot of positive stuff about this not so heavy knife and the weight issue also. So can you be more descriptive in your useage of these knives as I am an avid sharp blade nut....Thanks, Doug.............


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## chef dave (May 2, 2004)

Fatigue can come from a few different places. #1 - if you are using a knife that is simply too heavy for you....kind of like holding a piece of lead pipe for 8 hours....your hand just gets tired. #2 - if the knife is not balanced well. In other words, if the blade of the knife is too heavy it can put strain on your hand and wrist. It's like any manual labor...if you do it long enough, you bound to get fatigued no matter how good your tools are.

Now, as far as the usage...obviously as a culinary arts instructor I don't use my knives nearly as much as I used to. Or for as long at one time. So that helps to keep them sharp (and the fatigue down) But I do still do alot of catering, so they get a professional workout.

It's good to know that you currently use Forschners...I spent a lot of my career using German knives, and there is a big difference between those and the French Sabatiers (and Globals also). It turns up mainly in the Chef's knife...in a german knife you have a blade that has a curve in it from the tip to the heel, so you can get a good "rocking" motion when doing board work. The sabatiers and Globals have a flat straight edsge with no curve that does not allow for the rock. I don't know what your level of knife skills is, but I get the impression from your posts that it is at least above average. So if you've been using that rocking motion and switch styles of knives, it takes a while to get used to the new way you have to cut. I actually even sharpened a slight curve into my Global Chef's knife because I didn't like it.

I would agree with Suzanne most of all....try them out as much as you can....see which ones feel righ tin your hands.

-Dave


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## chefboy2160 (Oct 13, 2001)

Thanks for the post Chef Dave! The reason I use the Forschners now is early in my career as a line cook and prep and even chef I used an old Regent carbon cleaver, an Old Forge carbon boning knife, a 10" Chicago Culterly stainless chefs knife and an old F Dick slicer for my roasts and primes.When I got a job as restaurant chef in a hotel about 12 years ago the other chefs kinda sneered at me and my second hand tools.As a working chef I did a kazoo of prep which was major knife work and yes , I now remember what fatigue is.I remember the day the dinner house chef(yeah I was the coffee shop chef) who was older and a CIA grad said hey man , try this knife and see how it feels.Well the knife was a Forschner and the difference was between night and day, man that knife worked and it felt good also!
But after reading so many posts on knives I am at a quandry as far as a sharp knife enthusiast goes.Have I stopped short of the good tool? Yes, like you I do not have to daily preform these tasks anymore but I do do a lot of catering functions which sometimes require me to do a lot of knife work.I guess what I am asking is have I stopped short and is there something else that will be more comfortable to use and maintain?So much to choose from out there now so I appreciate all the advice you all can offer.Thanks, Doug................


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## dano1 (Oct 23, 2003)

Very good point on the differences between the French and German style chef knives. I just started with Sabatiers after using the German knives for years. Does take a little getting used to-very different feel-but i love em. Couple of swipes on a steel and i'm good to go .
hth, danny


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Chefboy:

A few years ago I purchased a brand new Sabatier carbon steel chef's knife; I ultimately gave it to a friend due to poor quality carbon steel. Unlike the really old Sabatiers whose blades are pitted from the get go, metallurgy in the new ones just doesn't cut it and no pun intended. It's mostly at ebay where I've gotten my old Sabatiers recently. The clue to a good old Sabatier is, indeed, blade pitting. So if you see one that's for sale at ebay send a PM to the owner inquiring as to blade pitting.


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## chefboy2160 (Oct 13, 2001)

Thanks for the tip.I realy dont want to buy a knife I have heard so much about and be dissapointed! Will let you know of my search and results.Doug.........


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## hipjoint (Jan 29, 2005)

i am wondering why anyone would WANT a vintage whatever.
go and buy a NEW japanese carbon steel clad knife and you can
have all the sharpness AND rust to fill your heart's desire!!

various japanese knifemakers will take a piece of white steel or
the more complex blue steel and forge weld it to softer carbon
or stainless steel. the whole thing is tempered up into the 
hardness range of 59 to even 64!! (typical german steel is hardened
"only" to 55 - 57. thinner, harder, and sharper blades than you 
can imagine. blazes thru anything.


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Hey Ballandsocket (Hipjoint!!!):
Most of us are unaware of that type of Japanese knife and are more tuned in to the Sabatiers.


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## dano1 (Oct 23, 2003)

funny this comes up now. Have been looking at gyuto's on a couple of other forums. May have to give one a test ride after taxes are done .

danny


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## hipjoint (Jan 29, 2005)

hahahahahahahahahahahahahhaaha ... ball and socket ... you crack me up!!

for your entertainment, look up <<korin.com>> or <<japanese-knife.com>>
(same website) and look up under "western knives" and pick up on the 
various misono or whatever knives that have the "warning" underneath
that reads "carbon knives are NOT rustproof" or something similar.
sharper than ANY sabatier knife and thoroughly modern. why yearn for
old school when something new is SO much better?? the "chef's knife"
shape is usually called a "gyuto" and is found with the three rivet western
style handles and also the more traditional round ho wood handles.
also, if you don't mind stainless, they also sometimes feature nice house
brand chef knives on their ebay site under "japanese trading". quit mooning
over the french stuff and make the investment in japanese steel. if japanese steel is good enough for the bride in "kill bill", it's good enough for you!


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## dano1 (Oct 23, 2003)

About time we have a genuine knife expert here. I must give up my western ways just like the movie....

Just one question. Why is a Chinese Chef touting Japanese steel? Every Chinese Chef i've worked with or for would not give up the cleaver-in various incarnations-for anything....just curious.


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## hipjoint (Jan 29, 2005)

to answer the question, the answer lies in the philosophy of one's tools.
you are correct in stating that chinese chefs love their cleavers and hey,
i love mine too!! at last count i have nine chinese cleavers, including
the incredible $205.00 shun cleaver i got for $98.00 on ebay when NO ONE
ELSE bidded on it! but there is a difference between the traditional "one
cleaver for everything" and the japanese philosophy of specific blades for 
specific jobs. can you believe a special blade just for fugu?? for horse mackerel?? for unagi?? yeah, they exist. kinda like the difference between 
having only a 16 oz. claw hammer and having a claw plus a ball peen plus a tack plus a ... well, you get the picture.
i love knives and love specific tools for anything and as a writer/researcher,
i find the japanese the most advanced in terms of steel production and
construction methods. no western sword ever made has ever come close to 
japanese swords produced in terms of strength, durability, and balance. after all, people have found swords 400 years old with very little rust or corrosion on the blade!! this same dedication is found in their knife production.


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

Just goes to show how far us westerners lag behind the Japanese in the metal forming arts.


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## hipjoint (Jan 29, 2005)

following the history of edged tools is a fascinating subject.

europeans, those poor rascals, had only one or two knives to the family.
when the call came to go to battle, the man of the house would grab the
"kitchen" knife and off to war he would go. no wonder it was thick and
"spear shaped" (the classic chef's knife shape) and had a heavy bolster
"for safety". especially the english and irish and their stews and other boiled 
dishes, there was no need for precise cutting.

the japanese and chinese would NOT ever want to use a cooking knife for killing anyone,
much less use a unagi knife to slice beef for teriyaki!! compare classic sushi
and sashimi dishes or chinese grand cuisine to almost anything european and you will see the difference asian blades would have to be to create such
gorgeous food. 

anyway, just a thought.


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## kokopuffs (Aug 4, 2000)

HEATHENS, those westerners!!! They're the last civilization to learn that cleanliness is next to ... And it helps eradicating disease. Heathens.


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